# My pocket pit bull



## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

Hi, 
I purchased my dog 1 month ago for $250. The young man I bought her frpm said he has her AKC and UKC papers. she is double registered. it will cost another $250 for her papers. I have not purchased them mostly due to losing my job 3 weeks ago, and not having the funds to do so. 

I took her and got her vaccinated a week ago. I told the veterinarian that she is a pure breed because he had said she is a mix. I stated no she is a pure breed pocket bully. she is 48 pounds, short and her body is thick, as in she is not fat nor skinny. she is in between and very sturdy in general. her temprament is amazing. anyhow the vet said there is no such thing as AKC papers for any kind of pitbull dog because they are all mutts. that is basically what he said! I am posting this post because I need answers. 
I want to buy her papers from the young man who i purchased her from asap. Her prior owner informed me that he purchased her from a breeder and paid well over $1200 on purchasing her alone. 
I don't know what to believe because I am so confused if this breed can be registered w AKC or only just UKC... ?please educate me on this breed as this is my very first time owning a pitbull period! I thank you or any advice and any information you can give to me!

below are photos attached to my thread! her name is Sadie. she is currently 7 months old.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Welcome and your baby sure is adorable! There is no such thing as a "pocket pit bull" and no respectable breeder is going to only charge $250 for a dual registered dog and then charge you extra for their papers. The AKC does not recognize the American Pit Bull Terrier, the only true pit bull. The UKC does recognize the APBT. The AKC recognizes the American Staffordshire Terrier or AmStaff. Though there is a lot of debate, they are two different distinct breeds. Any "pocket" is most likely an American Bully, who is only recognized by the UKC. They are the only dogs that I have ever seen "pocket" pure breed dogs. And I know that you will indeed pay a good $1200 for a solid, pure breed dog. Because you have to pay separately for the papers, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are probably fake and a way for BYB to make more money. No reputable breeder is going to charge extra for their dogs papers. 

Clearly your vet is mistaken. There indeed are pure breed APBT but they are more rare than mixes, so it may just be that your vet is used to talking to uninformed owners and has gotten frustrated that he just says they are all mutts. Obviously they aren't but I can understand some of his frustration, if that is indeed the case. If that's not the case, I would find a new vet but that's just me. 

I hope that helps! There's some legit breeders here who can probably be more help on the different registrations and their idiosyncrasies but that's the basics. Unfortunately, I think you may have been scammed by a BYB. I hope that's not the case but regardless you sure do have a beauty whom you will love either way!

~Jess


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

Sadie101, 
By not doing some research ahead of purchasing this dog I am sorry to say you have been taken advantage of. What Ciaramama has told you is spot on. Many here have learned about "Pit Bulls" the same as you- after the fact. You should spend some time reading here as there is a ton of knowledge to obtain. I have mentioned this in a reply to one of your other posts in a different section of the forum.

Looking at your pictures you did great. For $250 bucks you bought a beautiful young pup that obviously fits well with your other pets and just look at the young girl with that pup together. Couldn't buy that with all the money in the world. 

I would not pay the so called breeder any more money for "papers". Anyone can print anything but it doesn't make it factual. Enjoy that puppy and I wish you many happy years together.

Joe


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

Pocket class is in the ABKC where an American Bully would be best registered. Pocket class is 16" at the withers or less. IF you can get her pedigree, you should be able to submit it to ABKC and have her properly registered. Selling the ped for more is usually just a money making scheme used by puppy peddlers. It's more then likely that they never had her ped and that's why they "offered" it for that much money. 
She is a beautiful blue fawn. That's one of my favorite coat colors.


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

the original asking price for Sadie was $500 
I just purchased her w out the papers which brought her value down to half the asking price. I did how ever want to ask him for the original breeders information but I do not know what the chances are of him actually giving it to me would be.

if anyone has actual papers on their dog please post a photo so i can see what real papers look like. I do want to buy them but i just hope they aren't fake. he said she was specifically for show in the show ring not working because I did want to put her in weight pulling since she is so strong. i remember i did post about wanting to do this w her. i forgot what section i posted in though. 
i was reading online a while ago that papers itself to obtain don't cost much...maybe like $50 or something like that. it was on the actual AKC/UKC website. it baffles me why breeders or people in general even charge another $500 (just throwing a random # out there to make a point) on selling their dog just because it is papered. 
I was also reading online that the only way to obtain papers is w permission from the original breeder. Which stinks because I would rather just pay for blood breed test from the vet and pay for papers myself. not have to go through someone i don't know. 
A lot of people ask me if I have puppies. of course i don't have pups....i mean Sadie is still a puppy herself! I want to breed her w the same breed but a smaller male. not now, maybe in another 3 years when she is mature and mellowed down a lot. 
I have friends and neighbors and random people at the dog park and even by my home asking me for her puppies.....we don't have any for obvious reason (she is still a puppy herself at 7 months old. she has not even had her first heat cycle yet, but i am prepared to put doggy diapers on her when it happens!)



Thank for your advice!


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Copies of my Diesels' (RIP Bub) papers. These are ADBA papers not UKC or AKC. Just the fact that your "BYB" told you your bully was cross registered between AKC and UKC shows he's a fraud as he can't be registered to both as a bully breed as they don't recognize the same breeds. Papers are **not** something that you buy. You can't go to the vet, get some hokey a** DNA test (none of them are accurate) and find out what "breed" your dog is and then sign up and get a registration or "papers". These aren't membership papers. These kennel clubs aren't some after school club you can just sign up and join. UKC/AKC/ABKC/ADBA papers have a registration piece to them but they also show at least five generations of the dogs lineage. You can't buy that, as it has to be carefully documented. I know you don't want to believe it, but you got scammed. True pure breed dogs from reputable breeders do _**not**_ come for sale with papers (more expensive) or without papers (cheaper). It does not work that way. A real breeder will ONLY sell their pups with their papers and are typically somewhat picky with whom they will sell their pups too. It is extremely rare to find a pure breed bulldog from any of the bull breeds for under $1000, if you can find one at all.

But just so I'm following, the person you bought Sadie from was NOT the breeder? Yeah, this was definitely a scam. And please please don't breed. That's only adding to an already bad problem and it is pretty clear from a lot of your posts that you have a lot to learn before even considering thinking about breeding.

I think your Sadie is beautiful and that at the end of the day, none of this matters, or at least shouldn't, as long as you love and care for it.


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

*I just texted the prior owner's cell*

I texted him asking him to photo text me a photo of the papers before I come out and buy them, I would like to see what they look like. Hopefully he won't be upset and text me a picture of it. If he does I will post it and share it with you here so I can get confirmation on if it is real, legit or not.
No point or sense in breeding if the dog is not of pedigree. 
I don't want to add to unwanted amount of dogs that exist already.
I wanted to breed a pedigree dog. I am not upset at all because Sadie turned out to be a real sweet heart and she is so calm, and loyal.
She is a defender and protects my child, myself and our home.
She follows my daughter everywhere and she follows me every where as well.
When she guards us, she will walk in front of us and stand there, tall and straight with her back hair up and under growl. It is a growl that I have learned to understand that she is protecting us from something she senses is either no good or not right. 
If I obtain legit papers from her, I would love to breed her in the future. 
If there are no papers, oh well it wasn't meant to be then.

Thank you for sharing what your papers look like. 
I googled it a while ago what AKC papers look like, but as you said, and I read online, my understanding is that it cannot be AKC papered unless it is a legit pure breed pedigree dog. They cost a lot to purchase alone. I have been trying to read up as much as possible (online). How ever sometimes I get confused because one web page on the breed will say one thing and another will say another thing! So thank you for clarifying this for me, and informing me on this breed and paper status.


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

Thank you for your response. 
I messaged him asking for him to photo text me what the papers look like before I come out and purchase them. I would like to post a photo of it here so you can see it as well. I want to make sure before I buy the papers, that it is legit real and not fake.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

It can be definitely be confusing and there is A LOT of misinformation out there. Keep reading, learning and asking. There's a lot of people here willing to help those willing to listen and wanting to learn.


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

great news!
The prior owner responded and said he will text me a photo after work. 
He said he understands that I want to make sure it is legit before buying her papers. he said it looks like car registration.
I will post the photo up here as soon as I receive from him!


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

The person I bought her from bought her from a show breeder.
Then, I bought her from him. 
He said he will send me a photo text of her paper work. 
He said it looks like a car registration.
So it will look just like your paper work that you showed me.


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

Hopefully that is good news Sadie101. Fingers crossed that they are legitimate.

Joe


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

here it is. please see attached photos and let me know if you think it is legit. thank you!


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

my question now is, since she is pure breed, can she be registered with AKC? 
since she is pure breed.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Looks like applications for registrations so your Sadie isn't registered yet since the paperwork has yet to be filed officially. That's a sin that he's holding them for ransom like that. Anyway, one of the apps is ABKC which is the American Bully Kennel Club so it appears your have yourself an American Bully pure breed. The UKC app looks to be showing APBT but they just started recognizing AmBully so I would have that corrected prior to finalizing the registration. All that being said, the short answer to your question is no you cannot register with the AKC. The AKC does not recognize American Pit Bull Terriers OR American Bully's. You're stuck with UKC, ABKC, and ADBA, all of which are well respected and renowned clubs. They may not have the "prestige" of the AKC, but they also don't have the rules and "snootiness" of the AKC either and are much more welcoming, especially to newbies. 

Just beware. Having applications doesn't guarantee registration and it could all be for naught in the end and still be a scam. I would tell him to register the dog (that part is cheap) and once he has official registration papers and a registration number THEN you will pay him for the papers. That's the safest way to move forward and protect yourself. I'm on my phone so it's hard to see but when I go back to work tomorrow I'll look again and see if I can do some research in the listed sire and dame to check if they are legit. 

~Jess


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

he says he cannot register her for me. he says i have to do it.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

IDK if that's true or not but you should be able to find out on the UKC and ABKC sites


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

thank you. so do you think its safe to buy? why won't he complete registration for me?


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

My hubs said that he has to mail Diesels papers in but he thinks it's a scam. Can you gimme a few days? Let me see what I can find out about the sire and dam listed. You can also try to contact the breeder himself who is listed on the paperwork.


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

ok yes i will wait for you to connect with me again. thank you for helping me out.
if i have to mail in diesel papers, can i get that from original breeder? 
what shall I ask if I am able to contact original breeder?
I sincerely appreciate your guidance and help through this matter.


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

i feel frustrated at this point because I don't know how to contact the person listed as the owner of record is James etc.
I see his address but the only thing I can do is to mail him a letter with my contact information on it. I don't see him on social media, and I can't find any phone number to the address.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Listen I understand your frustration but this whole situation is shady as ish. This is NOT how things go with reputable breeders. The price is way off, the papers situation is weird, you don't know who the owner of record is....something is just seriously not right. I'm starting to wonder if you may have bought a stolen dog TBH. 

I'm not sure why these papers and potential breeding matter so much to you. I'm not trying to be mean here but you clearly know very little about the dogs, have no background or knowledge on the dog let alone breeding or dog sports or how any of this works. If you got the dog as a family pet my suggestion is to spay her and love her and leave it at that. 

If you truly have interests in dog sports I suggest finding out everything you can. Go to shows, talk to real breeders, learn everything you can and THEN go purchase a dog from a reputable breeder and start over. You don't even know if Sadie is structurally sound and would compete well in confirmation and that's not something I can help with. If she has any faults, especially major faults, all this work would be for nothing anyway. 

I will look into the sire and dam tonight like I said I would - I'm newer to the pedigrees so it's good practice for me! But I really think you should leave well enough alone and just love your girl and give her a good home and leave it at that. 

~Jess


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

the guy i bought her from bought her from a breeder. when i bought her from him, I asked him why he had to get rid of her. 
he had 2 other pitbulls he had to rehome as well due to his work schedule, they were stuck in the back yard for over 15 hours a day. 
she isn't stolen. 
I haven't seen anything online or in any data base for lost animals. I work with rescues out here where i live and we are on top of looking through the data base at animal shelters in our county and outside our county as well. 
My current foster dog (not Sadie)came from another city. I literally drove to another city to pick her up from another county shelter to rescue her. she is under the medical care of the dog rescue I work for. 
I don't think my Sadie is stolen at all. That is just crazy thoughts.
I have a few friends who work in law who have connection to whole other data base, which allows them to look up a persons information. they offered to find the breeders contact information for me. so hopefully by Monday they will have found it. 

I do not wish to spay Sadie until I get her paper work and proof that she is a pedigree dog or not. 

It matters to me because it is important to me. So it shouldn't matter to you why it matters or why it is so important to me at all. 
I do love her. I never once implied that I don't love her. silly!
she is my big goof ball!
Thank you again for your help!


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## DivaDavies (Jul 3, 2017)

Well then it sounds like the next step is to pay for the papers since that is what is going to determine whether you spay her or not. She is super cute btw! Congrats on your beautiful new pup.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Sadie101 said:


> the guy i bought her from bought her from a breeder. when i bought her from him, I asked him why he had to ger rid of her.
> he had 2 other pitbulls he had to rehome as well due to his work schedule, they were stuck in the back yard for over 15 hours a day.
> she isn't stollen.
> I haven't seen anything online or in any data base for lost animals. I work with rescues out here where i live and we are on top of looking through the data base at animal shelters in our county and outside our county as well.
> ...


I'm not even sure where to start with this without losing my mind. First let's start with stolen dogs. The only databases for dogs are license databases, microchip databases, and tattoo databases. There are no law enforcement databases where you can enter stolen dogs. Have you taken the dog to a vet to see if it's microchipped? That's really the only way to check. People steal dogs for exactly that reason. They're easy to sell and next to impossible to track. Secondly, I've worked in law enforcement for 20 years. Yep I'm the person who sits behind the computers running all the information AND entering all the information to the databases you speak of. And just for the record, it's illegal AF to run anyone or anything through any of the LE databases for personal reasons. That's a good way to lose your job, lose your agency's access to the databases, and potentially lose your certifications. So if these friends exist it must be nice to know that they're willing to risk their livelihood so you can claim to have some sort of "special" dog.

Finally, how dare you ask why it's important to me or say that it shouldn't be. You've come to a forum full of DOG PEOPLE. TBH we don't really care about you, our concern is only the with dogs. And that's not just making sure they're cared for. That's being stewards for these breeds we love. That's making sure they aren't being bred by idiots who have no idea what they're talking about and only adding to an already bad situation of euthanasia and overpopulation. That's being proponents of breeding for the good of the breed not to help some BYB make some money. We're not here for "status symbols" or helping people act the way you've been acting. I tried to help you out of the goodness of my heart. All the regulars, mods, and admins here truly want to HELP people new to the breeds to help the breeds. I have three APBT mixes, aka mutts, and I couldn't be prouder to say that.

I should have known better by your obsession with papers, the "illustrious" AKC, and your rude comments to other members here that you're in it for the wrong reasons. You're not here for the good of the breeds or the good of the dog because guess what, the dog could care less if he has some stupid papers. You're here for the good of yourself and people like you, with your ignorance and attitude aren't welcome here.

I hope I don't scare any new or potential members away because we all really do want to help those who want help. We love our dogs and their breeds and want better FOR THEM and will help anyone looking for the same things. But you won't get anymore help from me as I will NOT enable some dog ignorant BYB make a quick buck or have some dog they treat as an accessory because they think it makes them special or important.

~Jess

PS - It's stolen not stollen


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## DivaDavies (Jul 3, 2017)

Ciaramama said:


> I'm not even sure where to start with this without losing my mind. First let's start with stolen dogs. The only databases for dogs are license databases, microchip databases, and tattoo databases. There are no law enforcement databases where you can enter stolen dogs. Have you taken the dog to a vet to see if it's microchipped? That's really the only way to check. People steal dogs for exactly that reason. They're easy to sell and next to impossible to track. Secondly, I've worked in law enforcement for 20 years. Yep I'm the person who sits behind the computers running all the information AND entering all the information to the databases you speak of. And just for the record, it's illegal AF to run anyone or anything through any of the LE databases for personal reasons. That's a good way to lose your job, lose your agency's access to the databases, and potentially lose your certifications. So if these friends exist it must be nice to know that they're willing to risk their livelihood so you can claim to have some sort of "special" dog.
> 
> Finally, how dare you ask why it's important to me or say that it shouldn't be. You've come to a forum full of DOG PEOPLE. TBH we don't really care about you, our concern is only the with dogs. And that's not just making sure they're cared for. That's being stewards for these breeds we love. That's making sure they aren't being bred by idiots who have no idea what they're talking about and only adding to an already bad situation of euthanasia and overpopulation. That's being proponents of breeding for the good of the breed not to help some BYB make some money. We're not here for "status symbols" or helping people act the way you've been acting. I tried to help you out of the goodness of my heart. All the regulars, mods, and admins here truly want to HELP people new to the breeds to help the breeds. I have three APBT mixes, aka mutts, and I couldn't be prouder to say that.
> 
> ...


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
Didn't scare this newbie away! Excellent post.


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

*Thank you!*

Thank you! 
I love her so much!


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

Okay so you realize that every body that breeds pedigree dogs have to start from scratch? Like they go and get a dog and start from there. 
That doesn't mean they become back yard breeders.
A very great example is my dog's private trainer's boss. His boss got this dog, it's called a Malinois. He bred it with another pedigree dog and trains them all from infancy through 3 months and goes even further. After adoption he continues to train them. His profession is dog trainer and dog breeder, and police k9 dog breeder and trainer.
My point is that he started with this 1 dog. His main dog who helped him start his business. He is famous now all over California and the UK and other countries. He sells each dog for 5 grand and up. 
Point is that he started from scratch. I am not dog trainer, nor will I ever be. But I have always wanted to breed a dog and get into doing that, even as a kid. It was always my wish to be able to show a dog in the ring, win titles and breed it with another winner.
So here I am with my beautiful dog that I wish to breed in a few years, and show her in the show rings!
Your driving yourself crazy thinking and throwing accusations that I am not in it for the right reasons blah blah blah. 
Your an adult, so you should also speak only for yourself and not for other people. I am sure other people don't appreciate that of you, to throw them under the buss and speak for them, on how they feel about anything!
At the end of the day, it is someone's personal decision to breed their dog, not yours! 
So you can go ahead and disagree all you want but your disagreement and anger towards me will not chase me or scare me away from this website! 
I never made you crazy, you make the decision yourself and put that on yourself! 
My dog is not kidnapped or stolen! She was purchased from a breeder directly an then I purchased her from her first owner who could no longer give her or provide her with a good solid home. Just because i purchased her for "cheap" as you claim, it doesn't mean an animal is stolen from someone. 
Some people want to look for a suitable home for their pets and don't charge the outrageous 2 grand for the dog. 

So by all means your welcome to keep driving yourself mad. 
I will still continue to write posts on my dog.

I have done a ton of research and watched many documentaries on breeding for the last 5 years of my life. so it's not like I am jumping into this blindly and suddenly! My girl is 7 months old. too young to even breed right now! But not too young to show in the show rings!
It took me a good solid year to find a good solid dog that was worth breeding. 
Yes I am going to buy her papers this upcoming weekend. I am pretty excited. As you can tell. I can't wait to be able to take her and show her off! All my life..well since I was 8 years old, I have been rescuing animals, finding them homes, even giving homes to some rescues, myself. I finally got a dog that I wanted to have, that I wanted to show and breed! And your angry about it? that doesn't even make any sense! 
Why don't you just go to the dog ABKC, AKC, and UKC dog shows and yell at everyone who has a pedigree dog because they all breed them! Your gonna be angry about people who breed as a profession? Guess what? They all started with one dog! Then they gain experience and more knowledge over time ! So for you to even tell me "you have no experience in breeding!" No sh* sherlock! everybody starts somewhere! Why don't you tell me something I don't know about myself since you obviously know everything about me! 

Oh and I was never rude to you in any of my prior messages! 
Not once was I rude to you!
Just because I said "it's important to me, so it shouldn't matter to you why it's important to me." That was me telling you in a nice, non rude way that it's actually none of your business to know why it's important to me! 
But you took it out of context and decided I was rude to you when in fact I was being polite and telling you in a nice none rude way!


PS: about my friend, she will be fine. she has access to look him up, but she doesn't just go on it with out asking her boss to use it. She will do it and find out for me. I even asked my family attorney to do it but she said she doesn't have access to that data base because she doesn't work in that profession to have to need that data base for anything. So my friend will look it up. If she doesn't have luck, I have other friends and family who work in law who may be able to help me find his contact information. So it isn't the end of the world for me. I was merely expressing my own frustration on not being able to find his contact information on my own terms. I tried but no luck. No reason for you to have piss poor attitude towards me because I expressed my frustration out to you. I am sure working your job , you felt the feeling of frustration many times. It's normal for someone to confide their feelings to someone which I was doing to you and now your angry at me for nothing. Thanks for the help and support. I really appreciate it.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Sadie101 said:


> Okay so you realize that every body that breeds pedigree dogs have to start from scratch? Like they go and get a dog and start from there.
> That doesn't mean they become back yard breeders.
> A very great example is my dog's private trainer's boss. His boss got this dog, it's called a Malinois. He bred it with another pedigree dog and trains them all from infancy through 3 months and goes even further. After adoption he continues to train them. His profession is dog trainer and dog breeder, and police k9 dog breeder and trainer.
> My point is that he started with this 1 dog. His main dog who helped him start his business. He is famous now all over California and the UK and other countries. He sells each dog for 5 grand and up.
> ...


The Malinois originated in Belgium in the 1800's and are named after the city in Belgium where they originated from. My husband is certified in training and handling police/corrections K-9's and did so for many many years. He preferred the Dutch Shepard to the Mal due to the Dutch Shepard having a stronger bite and being overall generally stronger. The Mal's advantage is they are smaller and much faster. Most police K9's are purchased and brought from overseas, mainly the Netherlands and Belgium, hence why so many dogs are trained and handled in Dutch. If you're going to breed and know so much at least know what kind of dog you have. You have an American Bully. You came here a few days ago claiming you had a pocket pit bull.

I'm not angry with you, you're going to do what you're going to do. It doesn't mean I can't continue to advocate for dogs who have no voice. It's just a shame for the breeds and that makes me sad. I'm not interested in getting in some pissing match with you as you clearly don't want to hear anything that anyone has to tell you and honestly have no idea what you're talking about or to whom you're dealing with.

I wish you no harm and wish better for your dog.


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

so many red flags in this...



Sadie101 said:


> Okay so you realize that every body that breeds pedigree dogs have to start from scratch? Like they go and get a dog and start from there.
> That doesn't mean they become back yard breeders.
> A very great example is my dog's private trainer's boss. His boss got this dog, it's called a Malinois. He bred it with another pedigree dog and trains them all from infancy through 3 months and goes even further. After adoption he continues to train them. His profession is dog trainer and dog breeder, and police k9 dog breeder and trainer.
> My point is that he started with this 1 dog. His main dog who helped him start his business. He is famous now all over California and the UK and other countries. He sells each dog for 5 grand and up.
> ...


you sound like a child. over exaggerating. emotional. sarcastic. patronizing. unobjective. hypersensitive. if this is your response to a few comments in an online thread, you may have a complete meltdown if you start breeding. the breeding community is famous for hate and spiteful actions.
but like my father always said...
"the hard headed gotta feel it to believe it".


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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

To think that my personal intentions are not right, and
to accuse me of being a bad person if very cynical of you.
---
I have spoken to many breeders over the phone. 
They have given me advice the last 4 years and in person. 
I have worked in a veterinarian hospital since I was 16. I have delivered babies, both puppies and kittens. Both at home and at the vet. I was a veterinarian technician for about 10 years. I know what i am talking about and what I am doing. 
-----
In 3 years from now when I breed Sadie, her puppies will be breed with another pedigree APBT and they will all be vaccinated before they are made available to be adopted. They will have their paper work and vaccinations. They will be well taken care of by myself and by their mother. 

For me to breed her is not experimenting. Not sure where you got that from.
I won't have a melt down when Sadie has puppies 3 years from now. Everything will be situated and planned out properly for that time. I have dealt with bottle feeding puppies and kittens and delivering them from their mother. I know it is a lot of work! I know from experience! I have never had a meltdown delivering babies or having to care for them until they got adopted. They all got adopted(they were all rescues). Before they get put up for adoption, they all get spayed, and vaccinated and health check. So yes, actually I know what I am doing and what I am talking about. 
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Well when i have her paper work in hand this weekend, I will find out about her family tree, and I will have the original breeder's contact information. So these things take time. I am not throwing myself into it to make her have puppies right now.
-----
For you to accuse me of being in this for the wrong reason is absurd. If I had bad intentions and wanted to make a profit, I would be breeding her right now regardless that she has not even had her first hear cycle yet. 
I will not be another BYB.
-----
No where did I imply that watching videos and documentaries makes me a professional. It helped me gain knowledge on breeding dogs and what their owners have to go through to get to that point and level. For you to stick that in my mouth, is very cynical of you to even think that and accuse me of being a BYB. 

You obviously don't know me in person so there fore you don't know my level of responsibility when it comes to the animals or anything of that aspect. You never will get to know me, or my level of responsibility because we aren't living in the same city and state. So for you to be so judgemental about someone you will never know just because I want to breed my dog, is very wrong to do. 

Where did you come up with the idea that breeding my pure breed APBT with another pure breed APBT is going to cause all sorts of health issues and problems? 
If I find the right dog with the right pedigree and good genes, and outstanding health, none of that will even occur. I am not going to breed her with her brother! health problems typically happen when inbreeding occurs. 
My poor cat was a rescue and she was inbred by siblings. She has all sorts of health issues. none of my others have any health issues because none of them were inbred. 
-------
My reference to my dog's trainer's boss was a reference for an example. Obviously I have a long way to go. it doesn't come over night! Duh! Why do you think I have been researching, and talking with many professional breeders and people who show their dogs in the show rings? You act like for someone to make the decision to breed their dog, they should have 10 years experience before even starting! Nobody gets there over night to that point that your speaking of! 
----
Why do you say that breeder is suspect?Because her prior owner sold her to me for $250? and he wants $250 for the papers?
I don't think it's abnormal for him to with hold the paper work from me. I didn't pay for them. People who sell with out paper work, don't get breeding rights. With out those papers in my possession, I will be unable to legally breed her. So yes it does determine if I will spay her or not. I am buying them, so it has been determined that I will not be spaying her at all. 
----
The only thing I found suspect of him was that he had no records of her vaccinations which I asked for. He said he did them himself. of course I did not believe him, so I took her to the veterinarian, and had them give her first set of vaccinations, and rabies vaccine as well. I have a record of it now. She goes in on the 22cd for her second round of vaccinations. She is very healthy. 

I will be fine and so will Sadie and so will her future litter.

I could understand your concerns if I had bad intentions, but I don't have bad intentions, what so ever.
Therefore your judgement on me is invalid and very cynical on your part. 
Especially because you will never know me in person. 


**How many usernames do you have? You really have that many user names on here?
What are you a troll? 
LOL


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Sadie101 said:


> To think that my personal intentions are not right, and
> to accuse me of being a bad person if very cynical of you.
> ---
> I have spoken to many breeders over the phone.
> ...


*HAHAHAHAHAHA JO SHE THINKS WE ARE THE SAME PERSON!*

You're acting ridiculous. You know everyone, have tons of experience training, reading, lecturing, vet assisting, teaching, rescuing, etc but don't even know how to read a pedigree, what kind of dog you even have, and that you can't get pregnant prior to sexual maturity. You're not impressing anyone and only making yourself sound ignorant. Please stop, you're starting to embarrass yourself. And just for the record, I only have one user name here. JoKealoha and DivaDavies are two different people, all individuals. Our moderators and administrators are very good at finding and banning the 'trolls'. I said I wasn't going to respond anymore but I couldn't help it. There is so much wrong information in your post, I didn't want anyone to read it and think any of it was remotely true.

Jo I totally stole your idea about the different colors in the quotes. That was a great idea.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

And for my own practice, I did some research on your papers and not only do I have owner of records name, but I have his contact information and his kennel information all from a basic google search, no illegal database searching required. I sent him an email to ask about your dog for my own curiosity. He breeds RE and Gotti line American Bullies. NO APBT's in the mix.


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## Sherlock (Dec 29, 2015)

Why do you care about the papers anyway? Is it for competing or show? 
Then maybe one needs them. 

She's is absolutely adorable, but I can't help to wonder why people can't see through the greedy money hungry breeders. We have a massive dog overpopulation in the US due to over breeding. 

And also, I doubt that a "real" breeder would sell one of their dogs without papers like that!. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

i can't have a discussion with someone who "knows what they're talking about" and yet cannot even tell the difference between APBT and bully dog.
it's called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. and i will have no part of it.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

JoKealoha said:


> i can't have a discussion with someone who "knows what they're talking about" and yet cannot even tell the difference between APBT and bully dog.
> it's called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. and i will have no part of it.


Ohhh a man who knows his psychology. I love it! I'm like 2 classes and an internship shy of my second MS in clinical psych. I'll never do anything career wise with it but I love the study of it. Fascinates me almost as much as dogs


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

JoKealoha said:


> it's called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. and i will have no part of it.


Nail right on the head, spot on, hit that one out of the ball park. :clap: :clap:


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

Sadie101,

You are being helped by two members who are attempting to open your eye's and make you realize that your preconceived ideas are wrong.
If you truly came here to ask questions and learn PLEASE for everyone's sake start accepting that you don't know what you think you do and be grateful that you have (had) people who are sharing their time and knowledge in order to assist you and answer your questions. 
If your current attitude and pot stirring continue I will consider it troll like activity and your membership here will be terminated. We would prefer you to learn and become a valuable member but we cannot have you spewing your untruths. If you feel everyone else is wrong and you are right perhaps this is not the right forum for you. It then would be in your best interest to search for the information, _the way you want to hear it_, elsewhere.

Joe


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## Indie (Sep 29, 2010)

I was you 8 years ago. The difference is, I went out and found a good, REPUTABLE breeder with health tested, titled dogs, and bought a puppy directly from her. 6 YEARS later I bred my first litter of show potential puppies. That was after 6 years of putting title after title on my bitch, and having her hips, patellas, heart, and elbows checked, and the results submitted to OFA. I paid out the butt for each and every single one of those things. THOUSANDS.

I made NO money from breeding her. I bred her because I was ready for a puppy to start over with. I had 7 extra pups to find homes for. Some went to show homes, yes, but most are happy as pets, because there is almost NO market nowadays for show dogs, and barely one for registered pets. 

Use her to learn from. Get her titled. Get her health tested. THEN, maybe think about breeding her.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Indie said:


> I was you 8 years ago. The difference is, I went out and found a good, REPUTABLE breeder with health tested, titled dogs, and bought a puppy directly from her. 6 YEARS later I bred my first litter of show potential puppies. That was after 6 years of putting title after title on my bitch, and having her hips, patellas, heart, and elbows checked, and the results submitted to OFA. I paid out the butt for each and every single one of those things. THOUSANDS.
> 
> I made NO money from breeding her. I bred her because I was ready for a puppy to start over with. I had 7 extra pups to find homes for. Some went to show homes, yes, but most are happy as pets, because there is almost NO market nowadays for show dogs, and barely one for registered pets.
> 
> Use her to learn from. Get her titled. Get her health tested. THEN, maybe think about breeding her.


Welcome back! Speaking of my favorite show dogs, how are they adjusting to the new digs? Lovin' it I bet! Thanks for adding your show insight but I think she may be gone and TBH had a ways to go to learn about dogs period before even considering showing. I'm not even sure the papers are legit, the whole thing sounds shady.

SO when is my boy going to produce me my first pup to learn with and title?! :thumbsup::cheers:


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## Indie (Sep 29, 2010)

Ciaramama said:


> Welcome back! Speaking of my favorite show dogs, how are they adjusting to the new digs? Lovin' it I bet! Thanks for adding your show insight but I think she may be gone and TBH had a ways to go to learn about dogs period before even considering showing. I'm not even sure the papers are legit, the whole thing sounds shady.
> 
> SO when is my boy going to produce me my first pup to learn with and title?! :thumbsup::cheers:


Howdy!! You know how some folks lurk, so... 

Dogs are loving the freedom. They have their doggie door, and they can come and go as they please while we're home. Jerzi still has to go out on her 100' runner so her and Indie stay out of trouble.

He's got to get to some shows and get those titles!


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Indie said:


> He's got to get to some shows and get those titles!


Yes, yes he does and he is looking GORGEOUS. Got his mom's head for sure. Besides you need to get him out to those shows so I can tag along. I still have a lot of learning and practicing to do myself before I can get out there. Not to mention the fact that I would love to see him, Indie, and the gang. Oh and you of course but we all know the dogs always come first!


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## Indie (Sep 29, 2010)

you know, I was just creating some side-by-side comparisons for Rhodie and his dad, Stryker.. and he's turning into a dead ringer for Stryker! Wish I could do brace with the two of them... they would turn some heads!

I just wish my yard would stop being muddy!! I am so mad at myself for not getting photos, but I put Rhodie and Indie out in the pool enclosure because the company I have over is allergic to dogs. Welllll... Rhodie tried to dig to china in a mud puddle, turning him into a Mud Fawn, instead of blue fawn. HAHAHA! But boy, the clean up was horrid!! :stick:


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

I was certain they meant ABKC, not AKC and that looks to be correct. If you want the pedigree and the ability to obtain information on the bloodlines then you will have to get his paperwork. 

They are correct that they cannot register the dog for YOU. That is something you have to do with your information. When a litter is born the litter information is sent in and then application for permanent registrations are given on each individual puppy, these are what is given to the new owners and it is there responsibility to submit them.


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## Garz (Jul 14, 2014)

At least if you get her papers, you can go show your knuckleheaded Vet. how wrong he was. Lol.


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