# What IS he?! lol



## Jester09 (Oct 22, 2009)

So when I first got Jester, I was told he was a pure pitbull. The lady I got him from had bred him for hog hunting, but he was too much of a wuss to hunt. He was scared of the hogs and other dogs and would just watch and cower. I always figured him a pure pit, only because I had read up on the breed and seen pics, but never seen a PURE papered pit in person. When my friends recieved custody of him while I was moving, even she thought he was pure. (She had had more experience with pits, but mostly hunting/sport pitbulls)

Then I met my husband, who has a $2000+ dollar show pit. He's 75% Razor's Edge and 25% Gotti. After I had lived with him for a bit, we got Jester back. 
And he stood next to Magnum.
And towered over him.
And was LONGER than him.
And that's when it hit me. 
He's not pure!
Don't get me wrong, I love my dog more than anything and this doesn't change my view of him AT ALL. I'm just curious for some input as to what he might be. Jake says he believes he is pitbull x mastiff. Which would make sense since he was bred for hunting. However, I think the lady I got him from would have mentioned having mastiffs around. She DID, however, tell me that some of her dogs were half Dogo. I don't know much about the breed, but if this were the case, would it make him bigger? Here are some pics of my Jester.
You can kind of tell from the second pic that he's very bowlegged, and you can see his body in the first. Sorry I don't have a stacked pic of him. :/
The last pic, Mag wouldn't quit movin so he's a little blurry, but it kind of shows a size difference.


































Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Not sure on the breed but he looks like a sweety. What happened to his rear back leg? j/c


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

different bloodlines and even litter mates can be diff sizes and lengths and the other pit your husband has is a american bully with those bloodlines, so there can be a size difference. but if he does have dogo in him they are large dogs and could very well be why he is bigger, hard to tell when you dont know for sure. He is adorable though great looking boy no matter if he is pure or not


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

Hmmm it's pretty much impossible to be able to tell whats in there just by lookin at pictures...looks pittie to me...looks overweight in the 1st pic and slimmed down in the 2nd...so in the 2nd picture he definitley looks more apbt...these are just my opinions tho...either way you got yourself a lifelong friend regardless of the breed...good luck with em!!!


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## Jester09 (Oct 22, 2009)

He is a sweetie.  
The first pic was the day I brough him home over a year ago and the second pic was one of the pictures the lady I got him from sent me before I went to check him out (and inevitably bring him home!)
The third pic in my truck, I had only had him about a week or so. As for his back leg, I have no idea. Those spots where there when I got him and are long dissapeared. She told me she thought there were from ants...? lol I have no idea. 
He is gorgeous. His coat is absolutely amazing, and honestly, he gets more beauty compliments than Magnum does. I know that irks Jake sometimes, but Jester's his dog too now haha. Thanks for your input! I'll hopefully be posting some stacked pics of both of them tomorrow.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

He looks like a pitty to me but with no papers it's kinda impossible to tell. He's super cute though. Also if he is pure APBT he will probably not be built like your husbands dog. Gotti and R.E are American Bully bloodlines not APBT. They are registered as APBTs through some registries but they are in fact two separate breeds. That could be the difference that you are seeing in both dogs.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Your new dog looks like a gamedog, there is no such thing as a 2000k dollar show pit. Your husband bought an American Bully and his breeder obviously made some good money from him.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

davidfitness83 said:


> Your new dog looks like a gamedog


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

MISSAPBT said:


>


agreed

and there is no such thing as a 2000 dollar show dog??? i beg to differ buddy...all sorts of breeds out there with high dollar show dogs...


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

MISSAPBT said:


>


He looks like a real bulldog? I have seen I think was CH Yellow and other bulldogs shaped just like that. Firehazard on this site has Zebo/Jocko or Redboy crosses and they look a lot like this dog. I didn't mean to say he was a gamedog but I meant to say he looks like a bulldog not saying he can perform.. sorry lol


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Lone Star said:


> agreed
> 
> and there is no such thing as a 2000 dollar show dog??? i beg to differ buddy...all sorts of breeds out there with high dollar show dogs...


The ts said SHOW PIT that was worth 2k. Then she mentioned the bloodlines of dogs that are not APBT. Does that make sense now? I can breed Bernie and call him a SHOW PIT and charge 10k but that doesn't mean his puppies are show PITs lol Bernie's bloodline is Razor's Edge and Nevada but I wouldn't consider him a pit. Neither can you say a dog at 8 weeks old is A SHOW PIT. But backyard breeders and some BUlly breeders love to brainwash naive people into that.


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## Wingman (Oct 21, 2009)

He looks like a pittie to me. Razors edge and gotti are bully lines, aren't they? So they're built different than a true APBT. And another thing is a show dog will look a lot different than a hog/catch dog. Since the hog/catch dogs weren't bred for looks(comformation), but purpose. Working lines always look different than show lines...just my opinion...


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

I wouldn't go telling someone that as chineese whispers start and may go around saying hes a gamdog lol.

He is a Bully breed but who knows without a ped


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

MISSAPBT said:


> I wouldn't go telling someone that as chineese whispers start and may go around saying hes a gamdog lol.
> 
> He is a Bully breed but who knows without a ped


Mymistake that dog reminds me of bulldogs I have seen I should have said it differently


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

davidfitness83 said:


> The ts said SHOW PIT that was worth 2k. Then she mentioned the bloodlines of dogs that are not APBT. Does that make sense now? I can breed Bernie and call him a SHOW PIT and charge 10k but that doesn't mean his puppies are show PITs lol Bernie's bloodline is Razor's Edge and Nevada but I wouldn't consider him a pit. Neither can you say a dog at 8 weeks old is A SHOW PIT. But backyard breeders and some BUlly breeders love to brainwash naive people into that.


good post...i must have read it wrong!!


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Wingman said:


> He looks like a pittie to me. Razors edge and gotti are bully lines, aren't they? So they're built different than a true APBT. And another thing is a show dog will look a lot different than a hog/catch dog. Since the hog/catch dogs weren't bred for looks(comformation), but purpose. Working lines always look different than show lines...just my opinion...


Agreed I really like that look cen though it wasn't done on purpose per se. Although firehazard has some nice bulldogs.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

unless you have either a hand written ped or reg papers you will never know. I'd contact whoever you got him from and question. it never hurts


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Sheesh! I just don't understand why anyone whould pay 2k for a dog. Yeah, it's not my money but still. I paid 1k for my African Grey but it also lives 60-80 years!

Good looking dogs regardless.


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## Jester09 (Oct 22, 2009)

What y'all are saying makes a lot of sense. 
He could still be pit, cause Mag is registered as an APBT but is actually an American Bully. I had never realized that before honestly. But I can see how that would work. Now try to convice Jake that Magnum's not an actual APBT. Haha. That would be fun.
As for pricing, Magnum is out of Razors Edge Apollo who was supposedly like third in nation for show dogs or something. I don't know, and couldn't really care less. He's a great dog, and his dad doesn't matter much to me. But that's why they paid so much. I've seen Apollo pups online hit the ground at almost $2500. It's ridiculous in my book, but he made that decision before I was ever thought of lol. He could have been lied to, I'm not sure. I've looked up Razor's Edge Apollo and can't find any show history. So if someone else knows of any links that might fill me in more on WHY this dog is so expensive, please fill me in haha.
I'm going to try to get in touch with the lady I got him from and ask a few more questions. Thank ya'll!


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Jester09 said:


> What y'all are saying makes a lot of sense.
> He could still be pit, cause Mag is registered as an APBT but is actually an American Bully. I had never realized that before honestly. But I can see how that would work. Now try to convice Jake that Magnum's not an actual APBT. Haha. That would be fun.
> As for pricing, Magnum is out of Razors Edge Apollo who was supposedly like third in nation for show dogs or something. I don't know, and couldn't really care less. He's a great dog, and his dad doesn't matter much to me. But that's why they paid so much. I've seen Apollo pups online hit the ground at almost $2500. It's ridiculous in my book, but he made that decision before I was ever thought of lol. He could have been lied to, I'm not sure. I've looked up Razor's Edge Apollo and can't find any show history. So if someone else knows of any links that might fill me in more on WHY this dog is so expensive, please fill me in haha.
> I'm going to try to get in touch with the lady I got him from and ask a few more questions. Thank ya'll!


Your yellow dog doesn't have papers and the rule is without a ped you will never know but from the looks of it looks just like a nice APBT  I called it a gamedog but I was really reffering to the way he looked a lot of people call them bulldogs. I have seen photos of old fighting dogs and he ressembles some of them. Catchdogs which were developed to hunt boar were bred larger than the original APBT to be able to keep up with the size of the animal but many of them ressemble some of the dogs in the past obviously with a size difference.

As far as Razor's Edge and Bully lines, this is a recently developed breed and a lot of breeders base their pricing on appearance and nothing else. My dog is Razor's Edge cross to APBT lines and I can tell you he is just a normal dog and I thankfully did not charge 2k for it. Breeders are willing to charge as much as buyers are looking to spend. American Bully is one of my favorite breeds but I can tell you that most of the breeders don't health test and they overcharge the price of their pups because of their exagerated features that make them Bully. Don't get me wrong I love Bullies and I love their big heads with thick ripped bodies but that is not a reason to hike up the price of a dog.

This is my Bernie Mac Daddy


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> Your yellow dog doesn't have papers and the rule is without a ped you will never know but from the looks of it looks just like a nice APBT  I called it a gamedog but I was really reffering to the way he looked a lot of people call them bulldogs. I have seen photos of old fighting dogs and he ressembles some of them. Catchdogs which were developed to hunt boar were bred larger than the original APBT to be able to keep up with the size of the animal but many of them ressemble some of the dogs in the past obviously with a size difference.
> 
> As far as Razor's Edge and Bully lines, this is a recently developed breed and a lot of breeders base their pricing on appearance and nothing else. My dog is Razor's Edge cross to APBT lines and I can tell you he is just a normal dog and I thankfully did not charge 2k for it. *Breeders are willing to charge as much as buyers are looking to spend.* American Bully is one of my favorite breeds but I can tell you that most of the breeders don't health test and they overcharge the price of their pups because of their exagerated features that make them Bully. Don't get me wrong I love Bullies and I love their big heads with thick ripped bodies but that is not a reason to hike up the price of a dog.
> 
> This is my Bernie Mac Daddy


:goodpost: :clap: And as I've come to learn here, this is what perpetuates the BYB, or at least is a big part of it IMO. If people stop paying huge amounts for these dogs, people won't be so quick to pop out puppies. Won't totally take away the problem but it would help!

Sorry to hijack your thread a bit OP. I've just come to realize and hate how bad BYB is. Have your husband join the forum. There's plenty of people that would love to convince him that his dog is a Bully and not an APBT.


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## Jester09 (Oct 22, 2009)

Haha I would love to. He believes he is the all knowing of APBT's but apparently not. I would absolutely love to enlighten him some more so he doesn't make a fool out of himself in the future, however, I only have internet when I'm at work. :/ Once we get it at the house though, I will be sure he makes an account lol. I DID, however, pring out an article about APBT vs Bully. Hopefully it'll help some, but with how stubborn he is, I doubt it. Baha.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Jester09 said:


> Haha I would love to. He believes he is the all knowing of APBT's but apparently not. I would absolutely love to enlighten him some more so he doesn't make a fool out of himself in the future, however, I only have internet when I'm at work. :/ Once we get it at the house though, I will be sure he makes an account lol. I DID, however, pring out an article about APBT vs Bully. Hopefully it'll help some, but with how stubborn he is, I doubt it. Baha.


Well, when someone pays 2k for what they think is an APBT, it sure wouldn't be an easy convincing (maybe, never know). I didn't know myself when I got Athena. And that's the problem, there's just a lot of misinformation out there. I don't blame your husband. I blame the breeder for saying it's an APBT when Gotti/RE are clearly not. If he has an open mind to at least listen, he may be convinced. Post a thread in the General Discussion thread and ask where to get info on the difference between AM Bullies and APBT. I don't have enough knowledge to point you in the right direction other than this place.


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## Jester09 (Oct 22, 2009)

I will certainly do that. Thank you!


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Looks like a gamedog/whopper dog cross to me... Whopper is another contraversial bloodline, unlike Bully line Whoppers are workers. I think he looks like a adams/whopper cross ... His feet are flat, hips are square.. Of course he looks like he has some years on him which could be for the extra weight in the hips, but still that JMO. RE himself was a great dog, because the ORIGINAL Am STAFFs came from gamebred dogs that just happen to look pretty  Colby, Corvino, even current dogs the list is endless. 
Yeah your dog has some size to him, but there are Bingo dogs that are 85lbs, so eh.. potato patato.. The lil RE dog looks well bred, 2000 bucks for an APBT thats not game bred is just ghetto.. (clarity) Other than game bred dogs, I have only seen thugsters and wanksters pay that for a Bully dog for no other purpose than to be a protection pit (PP) "_Ya=eahh. Nukka.. That dog is Colld.." _LOL that last thing you want is an APBT that is cold. 
SO i have to agree that who ever the breeder was has the idea that he's breeding for the original APBT confromation and size, however check the papers because depending on what dogs are in the ped show if it has mastiff, or whatever background from a couple of dogs that just appear out of the blue or that have "rung" papers.

RE X Gotti was the start of the ghetto craze that evovled nationally........... Outkast crew and a few other helped blow the line up, everyone wanted one of those Pits.. LOL but PURE RE dogs bred right probally still harbor alot of APBT qualities as they were a long time program and actually have a good deal of game dog blood in them including the famous Plumbers Alligator, he was used ALOT.


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## Jester09 (Oct 22, 2009)

Mag is out of RE Apollo and Jezebell I believe. I had never heard either of those names before I met Jake lol.
I'm not sure WHY they spent that much. Jake told me he wouldn't own anything but a pit, and I guess he just wanted top quality, and paid what he was told instead of really looking into it first. -shrugs- Mag's about 5 so they've had him about five years lol.

The one that I was questioning doesn't have papers, so I can't really check. I was just asking for a confo opinion on breed possibilities. As for him looking like he has some years on him... He'll be two next month. Haha. In the first three pics I had just gotten him and he was 11 months. But he had also been on a chain for those 11 months since he was too much of a wuss to hunt. So he didn't get much exercise at all. :/

Anyway, thank you!


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Even though his papers say APBT the registry will paper American Bullys as APBT, god knows why.

But i would say your dog is an Ambully with those lines


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## Jester09 (Oct 22, 2009)

Yeah, Magnum is an Am Bully (Thanks everyone for clearing that up lol) But Jester, the buckskin is the one I was questioning. He doesn't have papers, so there's no way to tell for sure. I was just hoping for some input.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> Looks like a gamedog/whopper dog cross to me... Whopper is another contraversial bloodline, unlike Bully line Whoppers are workers. I think he looks like a adams/whopper cross ... His feet are flat, hips are square.. Of course he looks like he has some years on him which could be for the extra weight in the hips, but still that JMO. RE himself was a great dog, because the ORIGINAL Am STAFFs came from gamebred dogs that just happen to look pretty  Colby, Corvino, even current dogs the list is endless.
> Yeah your dog has some size to him, but there are Bingo dogs that are 85lbs, so eh.. potato patato.. The lil RE dog looks well bred, 2000 bucks for an APBT thats not game bred is just ghetto.. (clarity) Other than game bred dogs, I have only seen thugsters and wanksters pay that for a Bully dog for no other purpose than to be a protection pit (PP) "_Ya=eahh. Nukka.. That dog is Colld.." _LOL that last thing you want is an APBT that is cold.
> SO i have to agree that who ever the breeder was has the idea that he's breeding for the original APBT confromation and size, however check the papers because depending on what dogs are in the ped show if it has mastiff, or whatever background from a couple of dogs that just appear out of the blue or that have "rung" papers.
> 
> RE X Gotti was the start of the ghetto craze that evovled nationally........... Outkast crew and a few other helped blow the line up, everyone wanted one of those Pits.. LOL but PURE RE dogs bred right probally still harbor alot of APBT qualities as they were a long time program and actually have a good deal of game dog blood in them including the famous Plumbers Alligator, he was used ALOT.


there you are


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Jester09 said:


> Yeah, Magnum is an Am Bully (Thanks everyone for clearing that up lol) But Jester, the buckskin is the one I was questioning. He doesn't have papers, so there's no way to tell for sure. I was just hoping for some input.


Oh whoops i should read:hammer:


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## Jester09 (Oct 22, 2009)

MISSAPBT said:


> Oh whoops i should read:hammer:


Haha it's fine.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Jester09 said:


> Mag is out of RE Apollo and Jezebell I believe. I had never heard either of those names before I met Jake lol.
> I'm not sure WHY they spent that much. Jake told me he wouldn't own anything but a pit, and I guess he just wanted top quality, and paid what he was told instead of really looking into it first. -shrugs- Mag's about 5 so they've had him about five years lol.
> 
> The one that I was questioning doesn't have papers, so I can't really check. I was just asking for a confo opinion on breed possibilities. As for him looking like he has some years on him... He'll be two next month. Haha. In the first three pics I had just gotten him and he was 11 months. But he had also been on a chain for those 11 months since he was too much of a wuss to hunt. So he didn't get much exercise at all. :
> ...


Yeah he looks a little out a whack and a tired... 
There are some true to size and standard RE dogs, in montanna as well. Im bias to the bullys cause I honor the classic but not the others, as I am a gamedog man myself and so for my rhetoric. Great lookin dogs, lifetime friends and protectors.. . WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE PICS OF THE LIL RE DOG


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Jester09 said:


> He is a sweetie.
> The first pic was the day I brough him home over a year ago and the second pic was one of the pictures the lady I got him from sent me before I went to check him out (and inevitably bring him home!)
> The third pic in my truck, I had only had him about a week or so. As for his back leg, I have no idea. Those spots where there when I got him and are long dissapeared. She told me she thought there were from ants...? lol I have no idea.
> He is gorgeous. His coat is absolutely amazing, and honestly, he gets more beauty compliments than Magnum does. I know that irks Jake sometimes, but Jester's his dog too now haha. Thanks for your input! I'll hopefully be posting some stacked pics of both of them tomorrow.


Awe, he's in good hands now. Both dogs are beautiful, Jester's coat does have a real nice sheen to it LOL - welcome to the board btw


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## Rojas209 (Nov 24, 2009)

2k may seem like a lot for a dog but people want what they want. Some respectable Bully breeder know there stuff and they charge that price because it takes them years of breeding to achieve a certain look. While other BYB charge the same price because they know people are willing to pay that price.

I don't know if many of you have been to bully show but the difference is huge! I took my Gaff/RE dog Kilo he is 75+ lbs but he looked like a emaciated dog surrounded by bodybuilder when I showed him. :hammer:

Pictures and Videos do NO justice to the size, definition, and muscularity of of some of these dogs. I had to privilege of taking pictures of King Gotti if you youtube him he looks like an over weight fat dog. But in real life it the complete opposite, he is HUGE extremely well defined and not fat at all! (also the MOST calm dog I have ever worked with)

"The American pit bull terrier is the product of interbreeding between terriers and a breed of bulldogs to produce a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the bulldog"

Game Dogs are more terrier and American Bullies are more Bull Dog. 

Plain and simple selective breeding has made American Bullies, the Belgian Blue of Pitbulls.

The Difference Below
Kilo 









King Gotti









Now can we all just get along appreciate all dogs:woof:


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Honestly I think Kilo is much much better looking than King Gotti. That poor dog looks like his head is gunna tip him over it's so big lol. Kilo is so beautiful and built very well


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## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

There has been some outstanding info in this thread. I have learned Alot from this

Firehazzard, You are mad scientist dude. Keep dumping info like dave83 and I will be able to have educated conversations 

Everyone keep this thread going good info in here


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