# Nutrition/feeding



## rex abernathy (Nov 23, 2013)

Routine feed should be high protein. I am feeding hamburger, egg and a good dry food. Tell me what you think? I do mix if I would be conditioning, work to carbs and protein, but, on the chain optimum is higher protein. Nothing fancy just high protein prepared the way the dogs love it and not so expensive. Raw? Risky. I never do it. love to cook for my kids anyway!


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## petquality (Dec 4, 2014)

how much is too much protein on the chain? and if you could put a number on it, by what percentage would you increase for conditioning?


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## rex abernathy (Nov 23, 2013)

petquality said:


> how much is too much protein on the chain? and if you could put a number on it, by what percentage would you increase for conditioning?


Dogs digestive system is very similar to people with one major exception, the digestive tract is slower; therefore, dogs only need fed once a day. Whether on the chain or in a keep or routine life, how much is too much you ask? I feed a balanced diet of protein, fat, and carbs, along with the necessary vitamins and nutrients. However, if your dog isn't too active you can keep the weight under control by feeding more protein, and if your dog is working it will need more carbs. Thus my statement "on the chain" allows me to feed more protein.


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## rex abernathy (Nov 23, 2013)

petquality said:


> how much is too much protein on the chain? and if you could put a number on it, by what percentage would you increase for conditioning?


Second part of your question, "what % would you increase for conditioning?", the best way to answer easily without discussing intricate specifics, and that is the best way to answer a general question of nutrition, is to say that a good balanced diet of quality dog feed is acceptable. Now, cut it down a little but add meat and eggs for instance and you are increasing protein and keeping the dogs weight under control and you have a happy animal getting all of that meat and egg protein mixed in with its diet. Likewise, if you are exercising a dog very intensely, on days before intense exercise feed the same stable diet that your dog is use to, but change the protein, i.e., meat and eggs, to carbohydrates. Conclusion, your dog has its stability diet that it always has, but it is adjusted and altered with amounts of protein and carbs to correspond with its work! Happy, stable dog, without harsh changes that could be upsetting.


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## petquality (Dec 4, 2014)

thanks. i appreciate the advice. i understand about not discussing specifics but would you elaborate a little on carbs? (common sources) if you dont mind me picking your brain a little more?


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## rex abernathy (Nov 23, 2013)

petquality said:


> thanks. i appreciate the advice. i understand about not discussing specifics but would you elaborate a little on carbs? (common sources) if you dont mind me picking your brain a little more?


That's funny I should be picking your brain! I haven't studied this in years, I am just ad libbing as we speak. I had good results with spaghetti and oatmeal and pancakes! But I think the base is important and the adjustments of proteins and carbs are for us to tinker and see if we can do better! I think, I know, I did get better results by adjusting. What are your thoughts?


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## petquality (Dec 4, 2014)

well, ive never really suplemented my dry feed with anything other than meat/eggs/ bacon grease/and vitamin and mineral supplements. never thought much about carbs. (maybe i should have)this was the past when i could work them several days a week. as ive gotten older and had less time for dogs ive dialed it back to a decent quality dry feed only because im just keeping house dogs basically and idont want to be scooping my money up with a shovel. now ive got these two males that just hit 2yo and im just gathering ideas and using my ears because i dont want to let these boys go to waste.


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## rex abernathy (Nov 23, 2013)

I agree, it is fun to observe the difference that a feed makes.


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## Beatrix Kiddo (Feb 12, 2014)

I feed a full raw diet! Would never do it any other way. cut out that hamburger! Stay away from ground as much as your can.


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## rex abernathy (Nov 23, 2013)

Beatrix Kiddo said:


> I feed a full raw diet! Would never do it any other way. cut out that hamburger! Stay away from ground as much as your can.


Thanks for the advice, could you tell me why you feed raw and why stay away from cooked hamburger on a non-conditioning diet?


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## mccoypitbulls (Nov 26, 2009)

good info going into this.
I also use a decent kibble, and suppliment in some other goodies from time to time 
nothing wrong with some beef once in a while, but to feed any store bought meat, that was raised on a steady antibiotic, may cause the animal to become immune to antibiotics, and have issues with health later on in life, due to the constant flow of antibiotics, and an immunity build up against them... Sure they are lean and have a shiny coat, but are the benifits of a full on raw diet vs a kibble fed one better or worse ?? the jury is still out on that one!!

a raw "wild/found) diet, is different than a raw "store" bought one in a few different ways. 
\ natural enzymes and natural bacteria or animals with no natural immunity
a dog that can pass bacteria or viral organisms through, without being affected, vs being affected. Some folks may be even doing more harm in feeding a raw diet than they realize - or intend - 
now a natural raised beef,fowl, fish, rabbit, deer, turkey, raised in the wild - 
hmmmm.... o wait -----mmmmmmmmmmm 
bored on lunch - sorry


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

ask randall what I said about you cooking that burger? hahaha... when you cook anything like that you lose a lot of the nutriants[msp].I know dam well you remember satin's balls??????good but too rich for every day.

raw grd aint bad. just not everyday get you some leg quarters. active has he is rex I'd go 3-4% of his weight with it. plenty of fat there also. add wheatgerm oil or flaxseed. and adding some good dry to top it off wont hurt him. 2 or 3 softboiled eggs a week and once or twice a week give him some livers and gizzards. you could drop the dry if you want and add a cup of cooked rice. your clean up will be ez! like the little skinny dude said ''keep him about 2/3 lbs over and you good! hehehe. do this and within 2 weeks you'll think you have a different dog in your yard I promise! if not call me and i'll come get him! hahaha.
oh yeah... that carb thing is over rated also. fat is fuel brother!!!!!!

yis, the welder.


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## rex abernathy (Nov 23, 2013)

welder said:


> ask randall what I said about you cooking that burger? hahaha... when you cook anything like that you lose a lot of the nutriants[msp].I know dam well you remember satin's balls??????good but too rich for every day.
> 
> raw grd aint bad. just not everyday get you some leg quarters. active has he is rex I'd go 3-4% of his weight with it. plenty of fat there also. add wheatgerm oil or flaxseed. and adding some good dry to top it off wont hurt him. 2 or 3 softboiled eggs a week and once or twice a week give him some livers and gizzards. you could drop the dry if you want and add a cup of cooked rice. your clean up will be ez! like the little skinny dude said ''keep him about 2/3 lbs over and you good! hehehe. do this and within 2 weeks you'll think you have a different dog in your yard I promise! if not call me and i'll come get him! hahaha.
> oh yeah... that carb thing is over rated also. fat is fuel brother!!!!!!
> ...


Way to complicated for every day feed! Read my opening, daily feed, not conditioning. I'm talking kennel feed with a "routine" that will satisfy a dog and keep him close to weight. I also disagree that carb loading is over rated
if done correctly and in conjunction with work and protein days. But, that is truly something that has to be tested.


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## rex abernathy (Nov 23, 2013)

On a side note Welder that mill is working fine! Thanks


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## petquality (Dec 4, 2014)

we used to get meat and bone meal way back when but they stopped selling it when that mad cow disease paranoia was going around. late 90's id say. i guess it was a good for a daily routine. anybody ever use something like that? guy who turned me onto it swore by it.


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

na brother it aint complicated I just make it sound that way.lol. and glad to hear that. I've been wondering. but the thing about the carbs to me now is that its not sustaining energy. just a quick bang. I don't understand all I know about them just what I learned threw power lifting. but give that raw diet a try hellfire you don't like it you can always eat it! lol. take care brother. ps I feed 6 like that everyday. if it was complicated trust me I wouldn't do it! lmao.

yis, the welder.


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

So to chime in a bit as I also do love a proper raw diet, I think most do it wrong anyway.
To me, a daily feed is 70-80% meat on bone (chicken quarters being the majority, I use goat legs and back, and rabbit as well) and randomly I throw in a salmon or redfish head, but I get them right off the charter boats here (none fresher)
There are quite a few natural pastures around here, so the offal (organs) I get are all top notch. Here is where I think most people mess it up.. 
These are not wild animals anymore, they are domesticated. While their digestive systems will still handle and process the foods we are talking about a daily feed and not a working program feed.
There are certain vitamins in each of the organs that supplement differently, To do a raw diet properly (not to say good results cant come from paying attention) you have to consider what is eaten in the wild, and what processes and what stays in the dog.
My butchers and hunters save for me the heads (brain, tongue and eyes), the trachea, the lung linings (not the lungs themselves), the heart, kidney, liver, (gizzards), and in a grazing animal only, the intestines- full of grasses and all lol. <-- that is the gold right there.
Rex, I know it sounds like a lot of work, but when you get a routine it is cake. As Welder said, you will see an improvement in your hound.
I have a fridge on the patio for the dags, Every few weeks I go get the savings of scraps from my friends freezers. Bring it all home and separate portions into bags, weighed..
Freeze the bags and I have thawed bags in the fridge, every day I feed a bag I pull one from the freezer to thaw. Personally, I also add raw honey, Apple Cider Vinegar, diatomaceous earth, raw garlic and cooked down collards or whatever greens.
For what its worth to ya


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## rex abernathy (Nov 23, 2013)

Sounds good guys, but I see me really getting into trouble trying this! lol. I confess though, if I had endless supply, nah I still wouldn't trust it. But, don't be to harsh on those carbs Welder, they are the most efficient and sustainable energy, when you go to the fat it won't be too long before you start heating up and loosing strength!


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