# So if you own a Pit Bull, you have to breed it?



## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

I was just wondering if anybody else noticed this. It seems like a high percentage of people I meet who own the breed feel compelled to breed their pets. Some of them even look at you as if you've grown two heads when you ask them why they're breeding, or if they've considered _*not*_ breeding. Its as though producing puppies is the most natural thing in the world and I'm the fool for even suggesting that there's another way to go about it.

Maybe its a local thing, like perhaps it isn't as bad in other parts of the country. Or maybe its something that happens to all purebred dogs, and I just haven't noticed because I'm not into other breeds. I would hope that its not as prevalent among people who own mixes or "rescues." But it seems like a lot of people who own a purebred dog, an APBT, can't fight the impulse to breed them at least once, if not multiple times. Usually they have their own breeding pair and do repeat breedings several times.

What do you think? Am I alone here?


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

No you're not alone here.I've noticed this too.
I'm not sure if it's just a pit thing or if it's a pure bred dog thing.To me it seems that alot of people think that just because they have a pure bred dog they have to breed it.That just because it's pure it's worth breeding.:hammer:


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

My neighbor wanted me to take my chiwawa to her little chiwawa. They would have made gorgeous pups however Peanut has a terrible bite, luxating patella or something like that and a funny looking structure. I netured the Peanut and 8 months and I felt that it was necessary because of his faults and home made pedigree lol.

Trust me it's not just with pits lol


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

OMG I feel you guys. Around here they don't even have to be pure. People come up with all kinds of Pit mutts that they want to breed for the color or cause they want a dog just like it. It really makes me mad when people act like I'm stupid for having a pure bred dog and getting him neutered. I always get the "why would you do that?" Well lets see I have no intention of ever being a breeder or studding out my dog. I don't have the time or money. He came to me as a rescue and I had clue if he was pure bred or not until I found his breeders and saw the parents peds. I never wanted him to get stolen for breeding so yes I neutered my dog and I have no regrets at all. I feel as if I am being responsible in doing it by making sure I am not contributing to the over population of bully breeds sitting in the shelters.


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

I think it's because a lot of pitbulls are owned by people in poorer neighborhoods and the 18-25 year old crowd. Both could use the little bit of extra cash.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

I've had people ask if I plan to breed Roxie and Kane. After I've told them they are littermates.

:hammer::hammer:


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

Um yeah you didn't know, you're always supposed to breed a Pit. 

It happens in a lot of pure bred dogs, especially popular breeds. Many want at least one litter and I've seen the repeat breeders too. Some people with mixes also feel they have to breed their dog, after all she has the best temperament ever and a little extra money doesn't hurt.


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## jayandlacy (Sep 21, 2009)

I happen to live near the ghetto of flint...like 15mins away. Flint seems to me to be the pit capital of the world. People here are breeding pits mostly, there are 3 to 4 ads in the paper at a time. Half are purebred, with papers, the other half are not.

I think that a lot of the breeding here is because apbts are desired here by wannabe thugs, and to go with the thug idea, they have no understanding of what the breed is about. They think these dogs are mean so they want them cuz it can be dangerous in flint with all the murders and if they're selling drugs they think havin an apbt with keep people away, and make them mean if they are not. 2. Michigan is poor right now, unemployment is at 13% still I think, and frankly, its a way to make money. They don't think about what will happen if they cannot sell all the pups.

Puppies are good money. My sister in law makes $50,000/ year off of her boxers, which is more then she makes as a dental assistant. And her friend breeds english bulldogs and makes $80-$90000/yr. You can make more off of a few papered dogs a year then a job, at least around here.

I don't breed my dogs, they don't even know what a female is since they've never met one.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

I disowned a family member for breeding her two MUTT pets together and a 7 month old PUPPY who is pregnant and had 13 or 14 pups her first time irks the poop out of me!! bahamutt, it is not just your area..it is everywhere and more so now then ever since people are trying to make a living off their dogs which is VERY sad that they don't see anything wrong with it. I can tell you before I started here I didn't see an issue with buying from a BYB for a pet dog but I am litterally disgusted with every BYB I come in close contact with or see and I can honestly say I have so much more respect for kennels for busting their rears for this breed and anyother breed for that matter. 

If a family wants to make a buck do some garage selling or even a home business making things.
If a family wants a puppy because they love their dog then they should be slapped..the pup wouldn't act like their loved animal.
If a family wants to see the merical of life they should contact their local shelter..there are female dogs that are pregnant or call a local kennel and see if they can get a little documentry on the birth of pups so their kids can understand...

there are simple solutions to everything.......why street-tards think they should breed is beyond me!


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

In Las Vegas I remember seeing at least 17 ads in the paper at a time for "pit" puppies and Craigslist in Las Vegas for pitties lets just say UGH!!

But it is not only our breed... It seems that way because they still hold a high percentage of population... I have had people tell me when I ask them why they want to breed their easty-westy, overbiten, hip dysplasia dog... "Well cause I want one just like him/her"... And when I say ok what about the other 10-15 pups?... "Oh well I will find them good homes especially since I am asking (insert some ridiculous price) for them".. 

UGH!!!!!


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

It happens all over the place. In the small town near me we have dogs listed in the paper ALL the time. It gets because they say from champion lines but if I call and I do often the parents have never been shown they have not had health testing most don't know the bloodline of the dogs they are breeding. I can ask are UKC or AKC depending on the breed and they don't know that either. It makes my blood boil I get into agruements ALL the time over this type of breeding practices. I have tried to get my dog club to have a informational class on the best breeding practices but half of them are what I would consider BYB's.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Old_Blood, you remind me of another thing I've noticed. Some of the people breeding are convinced that nobody else is doing the right thing and that they are single-handedly going to save the breed in their area. Everybody else is a dog-fighter or scumbag, so by them breeding their happy pet, that makes their breeding worthwhile. Orrrrrr... they feel the price of the purebred dog is too high, and snobby show breeders have too many requirements, so they just breed to supply their friends with cheap puppies. Again, worthwhile. [/sarcasm]


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

I can confirm that this mentality is not just an American attitude. Literally everyone I meet when I have the dogs with me asks me whether or not I breed them and then looks at me funny when I say no.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

bahamutt99 said:


> Old_Blood, you remind me of another thing I've noticed. Some of the people breeding are convinced that nobody else is doing the right thing and that they are single-handedly going to save the breed in their area. Everybody else is a dog-fighter or scumbag, so by them breeding their happy pet, that makes their breeding worthwhile. Orrrrrr... they feel the price of the purebred dog is too high, and snobby show breeders have too many requirements, so they just breed to supply their friends with cheap puppies. Again, worthwhile. [/sarcasm]


:goodpost: You are not alone lmao.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I get asked everyday,if I breed. I always tell them no,they're fixed.
But now I get,am I selling her(Beia) NO I AM NOT SELLING MY DOG TO SOME HOOLIGAN 
O(">.<")O


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## duckyp0o77 (Dec 5, 2008)

lol its everywhere. my coworkers m-i-l breeds her dobes everytime she wants to do some home improvement on her house :hammer: im not even gonna get into what people have told me about bailey.. ugh


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Yea people are so dumb I swear


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

This is actually a huge dog problem in general not just pitbulls. I constantly see people get little dogs and it all about they are going to have the cutest puppies. Or people have shep and collie crosses that are super sweet so they have puppies. This is whole species issue not just one breed.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

*sigh* I know what you mean... I saw something on the science channel relating to the Nostradamus Effect, apparently our intelligence as a society since the 1950's has plateaued... I wonder if that may have something to do with it :hammer:

I don't know why anyone without proper knowledge & experience would want to breed. Anyone without proper know how are putting themselves in a catch 22, it's more trouble than it's worth. Do they not see animal shelters existing for a reason, partially because of them??


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

its ten times as much with this breed than others just look at the shelters you guys have over there and the amount of pitbulls in them and there is your answer.

My favourite dog ive ever had has a great ped and is a the best example of the breed i have owned. I had a moron who owned a boarding kennel ask me to breed her with some mutt he had for her first litter and he would sell them at a high price and give me half. no thanks, ive hadliterally hundreds of people ask if i breed or if i want to breed with their males and friends are the worst, a guy i know with two amstaff/staffs had absolutely hammered his bitch every year i think sometimes without missing a cycle. money wasnt an issue he just thought he had the best dogs and everyone should have one. First thing he said to me was a offer to breed to his male and was very offended when i told him to get some papers and we would talk[i knew he had none], he repeated the offer everytime he saw me with my dog.
I lost alot of respect for that guy once i knew what he was putting that bitch through so often. She died recently at eight years old. Poor girl mustve just been worn out proper.

Truth is i think i have many good reasons to have had a litter with this one dog but after all her years i never realy found a stud dog that i liked enough to put her with. shes too old now i kind of wish i had, as when she is gone i will have nothing off her but at the same time even a daughter off her wouldnt be her anyway so breeding wouldnt have solved that problem.
i am also sceptical where the dogs would go, id love to give all but what i keep away but not everyone wants a pitbull and once that pups gone you have no control over what happens to it. 
There are plenty of people out there who have spent time studying genetics and have real experience breeding quality dogs , people just dont understand breeding aint as simple as two dogs mating.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

junkyard said:


> There are plenty of people out there who have spent time studying genetics and have real experience breeding quality dogs , people just dont understand breeding aint as simple as two dogs mating.


What?! You mean it's _not_ just "I've got a good looking dog, you've got a good looking dog, lets breed 'em"?


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## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

I get it alot, not just with Pit's.

Honestly, I get a lot of females that want to breed because of the cuteness... I don't get it. I also have a bunch of people telling me, when you breed I'll take a puppy.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I really think it depends on where you live. I hardly ever see pitbull puppies listed it is mostly lab, german shepherd and then those little ankle biters. But here in MN it is hunting breeds that are most popular.


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## megz (Jul 25, 2008)

yeah, work in animal control....hard to keep my mouth shut sometimes.

had a lady come in to redeem her dog the other day and when i told her that if she had her dog fixed it would only be $16 to renew her license every year instead of the $38 and well, turns out she has a "great lined" "purebred" pitbull and they are going to breed her at least once. when i asked if she was papered she said yes but wasn't sure who she was papered under, AKC, UKC????yeah, i was real confident she was papered after that.:roll:
then went on to tell me that she had bred dogs for years (she was likely younger than me) and said that all dogs are a lot more mellow after they have at least one litter. 
so in a very nice way, i told her the reason we aren't big fans of random people breeding is...no words needed...walked her past all of the dogs waiting for adoption, plus all of the dogs out back who are destined for the "D"(death) Room".
still couldn't persuade her, so i was done talking. sent her out with no words and her dog out with a big hug and a cookie and a nice, slightly loud, "DON'T HELP WITH MY JOB SECURITY".


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## stusmom (Oct 25, 2010)

i live in coeur d alene and unwanted pits are a huge problem. i look at it this way, if i want my hair cut, i don't go see a mechanic. if i need a tooth fixed i don't go see a gyno.....my point is, there's people out there who know what they're doing and that's that. if i want a puppy i won't buy from a byb (i'm not a puppy person anyways) i think alot of this has to do with the people who buy these puppies otherwise where would it be profitable to keep breeding them? education is key and that doesn't mean forcing a belief down someones throat. the people who breed their dog for "cuteness" are often times uneducated, they know/understand that there's an overwhelming over population problem but cute little daisys babies won't have to worry because they're adorable, when in reality there's a million and one daisys out there in shelters everywhere. someone said something about 16-25 year old hooligans (its not a quote so correct me because i'm probably wrong) owning this breed. my opinion is that's not always a bad thing. i'm 21 years old. i have a house, a job, and a husband. i'm also a recovering addict with 2 years clean and sober. i own a pit bull and 3 other dogs. all males, all neutered, all rescues. i understand that a lot of young people happen to contribute to this breeds bad rap, but the majority is irresponsible ownership and improper education on the humans behalf. i would never breed any of my dogs even if i had the option to. my springer gets complimented all the time about how beautiful he is, and if i would ever consider breeding him. i thank them for their kind words and tell them that he's neutered and while he may be beautiful, he lacks in the standards, i state that he's 1 inch to tall, he's barrel chested, he's 5 years old with hip dysplasia, and is prone to current ear infections. his temperment is sound, but why would i want to pass hip dysplasia down to his babies? that's got to be painful and expensive to correct. the replies i get are usually "oh wow, i never even thought of that before" so even if i've done nothing else, at least i made someone look at my dog other than beautiful.....baby steps. my point always is, leave it to people who know what they are doing.


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

stusmom said:


> i live in coeur d alene and unwanted pits are a huge problem.


Cour D Alene, Idaho?


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## stusmom (Oct 25, 2010)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> Cour D Alene, Idaho?


yep, been here for the last couple of years, used to live in spokane


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Oh nice I live near Boise... But when I researched BSL when we moved to Idaho Cour D Alene was the only town with a complete ban on bully breeds... Has that changed since February of this year?


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

We live in a pretty rough area where nearly every other house is breeding pit bulls. Everytime I'm outside with my dog Tank one of the kids will ask me if they can breed their female with him because he is big and blue like so many of the dogs at animal control. I'll explain to them that Tank is actually very poorly bred and came from a backyard breeder. I list off all of his medical issues that he has because of poor breeding and how we had to spend nearly $1,000 when we got him in. They still want to use him as a stud and are so disappointed when I tell them he's neutered. They think I'm crazy for fixing my dogs.


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## stusmom (Oct 25, 2010)

i never knew there was a bsl here, we adopted ours a little more than a year ago and he's licensed with the city....i see alot of pitties here, i know not everyone registers them but that doesn't change the fact that they're here. i even take mine to work with me. actually i had animal control out to my house last month because two boxers attacked my rotty and the control officer turned out to be a cop who adored stu....so legally speaking i dont know if its in effect but if it is....they arent strict or care about it. no ones ever said anything to me when i'm walking all four dogs or when im weight training with stu. you're post caught me off guard so i'll have to do some research. thank you for bringing that to my attention. i'd love to go to boise one day. we just ordered stus custom harness from table rock harness located in boise. that's about all the connection i have to that neck of the woods


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Well if you are ever down this way let me know I would love to meet you guys...

Yeah I searched and searched but it could be that they are lean on enforcement... Just thought I would mention it... Sorry to catch you off guard...


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## stusmom (Oct 25, 2010)

so i did a little research tonight but it's mid night so i'll do more tomorrow. this one website i went to said that CDA says no to bsl but is instead cracking down on irresponsible owners. another website i went to says that kellog, fruitland and payette have passed bsl. not sure how old these sites are and if the information is current but just sharing what i've found so far.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

A lot of people that I ran into everyday, tell me "Oh you should always breed your dog at least once to calm them down" - which I believe is a MYTH. I think its just crazy that people feel that way, I honestly don't believe that a dog will calm down just because they have babies.......


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## ashes (Jul 7, 2010)

yea my cousin bred his pits all the time it made me so mad since it was just for money. And here In LA the ads just have pitbulls only pretty much.


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## Beedeezy10 (Jul 22, 2010)

BYB is done out of ignorance....Most people do what they see. If u see everyone breeding their dog, then y not me too? They just fell to realize everything else that involved with breeding..i.e. maintaining shots, deworming, not including many health issues that will arise, medical expenses, over populations, etc. etc. If people actually hear the truth about all of this things, then maybe it'll stop, but I dont see that happening any time soon. Man always trying to find a quick dollar these days, esp. with everything in the state it is...SMH


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Atlanta Bully Rescue said:


> We live in a pretty rough area where nearly every other house is breeding pit bulls. Everytime I'm outside with my dog Tank one of the kids will ask me if they can breed their female with him because he is big and blue like so many of the dogs at animal control. I'll explain to them that Tank is actually very poorly bred and came from a backyard breeder. I list off all of his medical issues that he has because of poor breeding and how we had to spend nearly $1,000 when we got him in. They still want to use him as a stud and are so disappointed when I tell them he's neutered. They think I'm crazy for fixing my dogs.


If only they could see past what they 'think' they want & just think about the concept for a second or two of the outcome... Instead of being hard headed & stubborn. I know all about coming from a poor area but the only way to get out of that situation is to do something proactive. It's so frustrating to see as a bystander when coming from the same background & watching them perpetuate instead of move forward in life.


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## aprilortego (Aug 23, 2010)

No it's not just you, people everywhere are like that. They look at their pet as a money making machine. The day I got Nila, I was on the phone with my vet setting up an appt. to have her fixed. People do ask me to breed her and look at me funny when I tell them she is fixed. I did not get Nila for any other reason than a pet and that is what she will be.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

bahamutt99 said:


> I was just wondering if anybody else noticed this. It seems like a high percentage of people I meet who own the breed feel compelled to breed their pets. Some of them even look at you as if you've grown two heads when you ask them why they're breeding, or if they've considered _*not*_ breeding. Its as though producing puppies is the most natural thing in the world and I'm the fool for even suggesting that there's another way to go about it.
> 
> Maybe its a local thing, like perhaps it isn't as bad in other parts of the country. Or maybe its something that happens to all purebred dogs, and I just haven't noticed because I'm not into other breeds. I would hope that its not as prevalent among people who own mixes or "rescues." But it seems like a lot of people who own a purebred dog, an APBT, can't fight the impulse to breed them at least once, if not multiple times. Usually they have their own breeding pair and do repeat breedings several times.
> 
> What do you think? Am I alone here?


Old thread but good topic and I have thought of this before  Here in Boston you see many pit owners that need to breed just so there boy can get some. And so they can make $$$$. Plain ignorance! Across the board there is an OVER population problem with many mutts and pure breds in shelters. But HANDS DOWN these *pit bulls are the least likely to be Spayed and Neutered *and all the late teens and 20 somethings feel the need for there dogs to spread there seed around. I mean even the people who come on here you see it. I'd say that at least 85% of the people here all have intact dogs if not more. That's just my guess from what I see on here. I am all for intact animals if you are responsibly showing or competing your dogs in sport but I'm talking about the average dog owner. Working in the animal industry for over 15 years....you meet alot of people and my experience is that most pit bull owners that I have met have all mentioned breeding or that there dog has been bred. Oh, and I also love the people I have met that will chop there dogs ears off but think that fixing there dog is cruel. I always love hearing that. Just my 2 cents


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

fishinrob said:


> I think it's because a lot of pitbulls are owned by people in poorer neighborhoods and the 18-25 year old crowd. Both could use the little bit of extra cash.


this my be true for some but not for all I am 19 and live in detroit michigan and do not ever plan on breeding Izzo , nor do all my friends who own them . We all got one out of the same litter , all are neutered , and all are working/companion dogs ..


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

aprilortego said:


> No it's not just you, people everywhere are like that. They look at their pet as a money making machine. The day I got Nila, I was on the phone with my vet setting up an appt. to have her fixed. People do ask me to breed her and look at me funny when I tell them she is fixed. I did not get Nila for any other reason than a pet and that is what she will be.


I also get the same face when I tell people that she is fixed lol =] Ive seriously had people stop me in the street while I am walking her and ask me . It is ridiculous .


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

IzzosMommy said:


> I also get the same face when I tell people that she is fixed lol =] Ive seriously had people stop me in the street while I am walking her and ask me . It is ridiculous .


south east michigan is the worst , i live on the west side of the state but all the for sale adds come from detroit to flint it seems.

some of the stud adds are awsome tho

" this my boy yo , he be 1000$ blood youknowwhatimsayin up for stud 5000$'
" he got a big head and is a rare blue , rednose"


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

I have been asked at least a dozen times to breed and I have only had Bella for 4 months. I had a guy ask me at my OB class to breed my girl to his big old southern bulldog thing.....The lastest was just a few weeks ago. I was walking Bella through my neighborhood and I past this older teenage dude walking this fat black bowl-legged pit bull with a little head. He was just like is your dog a female, I said yes why? I knew what was coming next I was just playing stupid......He was like can we breed our dogs together? I already have mad friends who want one of my boys pups. I was like no thanks your boy isn't breed worthy and should be fixed and my girl is only a puppy. He was like well we can breed them when your female has her first heat...Then I just walked away and told him to go read a book and educate himself on dogs. LOSER!


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

motocross308 said:


> some of the stud adds are awsome tho
> 
> " this my boy yo , he be 1000$ blood youknowwhatimsayin up for stud 5000$'
> " he got a big head and is a rare blue , rednose"


:rofl: :hammer:

I used to watch that animal cops on animal planet when it was on. They had a show based out of Detroit. Almost every rescue on that show had a pit bull involved. Lots of dog fighting cases as well. Such a shame.


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

motocross308 said:


> south east michigan is the worst , i live on the west side of the state but all the for sale adds come from detroit to flint it seems.
> 
> some of the stud adds are awsome tho
> 
> ...


Yea I always get a laugh, I especially love when you get the people tryin to sell you the puppies on corners . poor dogs , I feel for um . gotta love that Alligator/bluerednose beast , with the 27 inch head lol


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## dsgdlover (Feb 21, 2011)

IzzosMommy said:


> this my be true for some but not for all I am 19 and live in detroit michigan and do not ever plan on breeding Izzo , nor do all my friends who own them . We all got one out of the same litter , all are neutered , and all are working/companion dogs ..


I agree with you there, growing up ATL Ive seen it everywhere. I lived where homes were not under 500k and saw some of the same if not more breedings that i have seen in the hood which i have lived and grew up in as well. I will say when i was sent to the hood for the holidays alot of my boys in INDY had dogs that came from the suburbs believe or not and the dogs in the hood was usually free pieces of pits.


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

jayandlacy said:


> I happen to live near the ghetto of flint...like 15mins away. Flint seems to me to be the pit capital of the world. People here are breeding pits mostly, there are 3 to 4 ads in the paper at a time. Half are purebred, with papers, the other half are not.
> 
> I think that a lot of the breeding here is because apbts are desired here by wannabe thugs, and to go with the thug idea, they have no understanding of what the breed is about. They think these dogs are mean so they want them cuz it can be dangerous in flint with all the murders and if they're selling drugs they think havin an apbt with keep people away, and make them mean if they are not. 2. Michigan is poor right now, unemployment is at 13% still I think, and frankly, its a way to make money. They don't think about what will happen if they cannot sell all the pups.
> 
> ...


HOLY CRAP! What have I been doing, preaching against bad breeding practices. Dang with as many people who wanted to breed my female to their stud, now I really regret spaying her!

JK! haha


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

got to keep breeding in hopes to get them rare pure bread blue pitts. 

lmfao


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

dsgdlover said:


> I agree with you there, growing up ATL Ive seen it everywhere. I lived where homes were not under 500k and saw some of the same if not more breedings that i have seen in the hood which i have lived and grew up in as well. I will say when i was sent to the hood for the holidays alot of my boys in INDY had dogs that came from the suburbs believe or not and the dogs in the hood was usually free pieces of pits.


Yea , if I wouldnt have known Izzos parents since they were puppies I probably would not have bought her . But now that I have her I am happy that I did . Other puppies out of the liter were not so fortunate , her sister had to be put down @ 5 months old because she bit the mail man .. { I personally think it was my friends fault for not watching her ,but hey what can you do ?} I mean yes there are some nice looking dogs in my neighborhood , But what are the bloodlines ? where did there parents come from ? are the health tested , of sound temperament I would say 99.9% of them is a No =[ and to see that makes me very sad. Or Neighbor actually just lost a dog to parvo because he didnt get the vaccinations regularly and that is just plain lazy around where I am from because every spring they give out free shots .. ! It is very sad to see all this , and frustrating to not be able to make people understand what really is going on .


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Izzo, I knew my dog's parent's from pups to, as well as my dogs sire's parents. This was before I knew anything about byb's. And I thought that was just the way people did things. The breeder was my best friend's parents. Helena was out of 4, and of the 4 I know that 2 are dead. The third was sold at random.


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