# Tri vs. Sable/Smut



## pitbullmamanatl

This is an excerpt from an article by Ed Faron:​ The tan point pattern is caused by a recessive gene on the Agouti series gene locus, the following are the alleles (variations) that are definitely known to occur in the American Pit Bull Terrier. There are also a couple of other genes on this same locus, but they are most likely not present in this breed, so we will ignore them in this article to try and keep things simple.








 

A dog needs to inherit two copies of the tan-point gene to be a black & tan. If a pup inherits one copy of the gene and one copy of the dominant yellow gene, which causes a red or buckskin coloration, then the dog will be red or buckskin, not black and tan. If the dog inherits one copy of the tan-point gene and one of the dominant black gene, the result will be a solid black dog. because of the recessive nature of the tan-point gene, it can actually remain hidden in the gene pool for many generations without expressing itself. In the case of our breed (where this is not a common color) this is what often happens, but it is important to realize that when the tan-point pattern does pop up it is not some new color mutation that appeared out of nowhere, but rather the manifestation of a gene that has been present in this breed all throughout the known history of the American Pit Bull Terrier. Though it is impossible to say for sure where the coloration originated, our best guess would be that it came from some sort of terrier blood that was introduced many, many years ago, probably during the early formation of the breed in the British Isles.  

 *The tan point gene does not actually create a black & tan animal, the gene itself does not produce any color but rather a pattern of a solid color with light-colored 'points'.* These 'points' always appear in specific places but the actual size and distribution of them is somewhat variable. The exact coloration that is produced by the tan-point gene is dependent on the color genes present at other loci, for instance if the pigmentation is black, the result will be a black & tan, but if the dog's pigmentation is chocolate or blue then the pattern would produce a chocolate & tan or a blue & tan, respectively.

*EXAMPLES OF TRUE TRI COLOR DOGS* _(Notice the very distinct tan points appear on the face, legs, chest, and under the tail).
_The word tri means three, hence the noticeable pattern of three clear and separate colors. Two of them are always tan and white and the third one can either be black, blue, champagne, chocolate, seal or red. 
*TRI=* 
 























Razor's Nation Neekah  







 








 
​BLUE TRI COLOR (CH ESCOBAR OF AMERICAN IRON KENNELS)​ 
CHAMPAGNE/PURPLE TRI COLOR (PURLE HAZE OF AIK) ​ 

 BLACK & TAN POINT (also called tri-color) 
*The color pattern is the same on any dog regardless of breed* 
 The tan point colored dogs have a set pattern that is the same as one would see on a Rottweiler, Doberman or Manchester Terrier(BELOW from LEFT to RIGHT).
 























 





































*
SABLE/SMUT*
Dilute Sable, also called Smut, has a fawn base coat with a heavy black overlay, which often creates the illusion of a tri, but it is NOT the same as a tan point tri color. The overlay darkness will very from heavy to light. 
*Sable or Smut dogs: *
 






























 

 















 























Oh, and be careful if you Google "Smut Dogs".
LOTS of porn comes up lol
_Thanks to Idalis Lewis and American Iron Kennels for this info_​


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## angelbaby

great post


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## Mach0

Great post Lauren.


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## circlemkennels

:goodpost:


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## r0ckah0l1c

Are there tri apbts or just bullies? Because I swear a neighbor of ours has what looks to be a tri apbt. Unless its some breed I'm unfamiliar with.


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## Rudy4747

r0ckah0l1c said:


> Are there tri apbts or just bullies? Because I swear a neighbor of ours has what looks to be a tri apbt. Unless its some breed I'm unfamiliar with.


Yes there are Tri APBT and have been for years. Mostly Black and tan. The sorrels line that is produce through Tatonka kennels produces a lot of them. But they do not breed for the color.
TATONKA KENNELS STUD DOGS


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## pitbullmamanatl

Pictures of dogs bred by J.P. Colby in the early to mid 1900s, circa 1910-1945 (sepia pictures taken from *Colby's Book of the American Pit Bull Terrier c1997*). They were not seen that often and people often assume they were mixed; however, that couldn't be further from the truth.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Just a reminder that this is an informative post about color patterns and not about the type of dogs posted. Note that I posted several other breeds to show color patterns as well. Please keep all comments friendly. Thank you


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## MY MIKADO

Great read Lauren. Tri dogs hold a special place in my heart.


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## r0ckah0l1c

I thought so because the article up top mention apbt I just wasn't sure because most pics were bullies and some articles get the info wrong. I think a purple champagne apbt would be so cool  I shall look into it!


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## performanceknls

What kennel is this dog from? OMG he is awesome!


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## Sadie

performanceknls said:


> What kennel is this dog from? OMG he is awesome!


http://www.818concepts.com/index2.html

I googled 818 concepts and this is the kennel that came up. But it looks like they design for a whole bunch of websites that user their logo. 818 so not sure if this is the actual kennel who bred this dog.


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## pitbullmamanatl

performanceknls said:


> What kennel is this dog from? OMG he is awesome!


That is *Remyline's Sledge Hammer








*


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## performanceknls

but where do I buy one! lol My husband and I were talking and I would own a bully like that. He is really stunning!


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## MY MIKADO

He is a sharp looking boy.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Sadie said:


> 818 Concepts
> 
> I googled 818 concepts and this is the kennel that came up. But it looks like they design for a whole bunch of websites that user their logo. 818 so not sure if this is the actual kennel who bred this dog.


818 Concepts is like a glamor shots for bullies.


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## pitbullmamanatl

performanceknls said:


> but where do I buy one! lol My husband and I were talking and I would own a bully like that. He is really stunning!


He is off of Remy Martin who was bred by *Ruckus Kennels* and is owned by Fabian Chichester. Remy is RE. His mother is Bully G from *Blue Thunder Kennels* and that is where he was produced.
















He is now owned by Wayne of *Crown Royal Pitz*.
You can check out his other pics on the Crown Royal site.


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## pitbullmamanatl

My bad Lisa.... That is not Sledgehammer. That is his son Hammer Bammer. They have Hammer Bammer's pic in Sledgehammer's pedigree.
This is Sledgehammer:









More pics of Hammer:









He is owned by Paul @ the *Bully Headquarters*. I think he looks much better than his father. 
*Hammer Bammer's Pedigree*


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## SouthernMystery

Question, how in the world did we get the 'purple tri'?? I've been looking at the breed and studying it for quite awhile and there hasn't been any purple tris until recently. Is this because breeders are now breeding for color? I've noticed a couple of lines that are trying to produce only tri color dogs.


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## Sadie

Who knows I don't even consider that a real color at least not in the APBT. It looks like a over diluted blue-tri to me. I hear all these fancy colors thrown around lavender, silver, purple tri ... They all look like a lighter washed out blue to me. All I know is game dogs don't come in those colors so I am not sure how they came about.


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## SouthernMystery

That's what gets me. I've never seen a purple tri before,all these made up colors are making us look like complete idiots. What about ghost tris? They are like a blue tri with light fawn makings.


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## Sadie

Never heard of any of them. My dog's are adba dogs and none of those colors are accepted on the color charts with the ADBA. The only time I have heard or seen those colors tossed around is within the American Bully community. So maybe one of the bully people on here can explain how those colors got into the breed. All I can tell you is I know for a fact that you will never see a game bred purple tri nor has their ever been one. And to see a blue game bred dog period is very rare. That I know for a fact.


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## performanceknls

The purple tri is a washed out blue tri and you see it in the Bully dogs not APBT's. I have never seen a Blue tri of any color in the APBT it is a bully color. Who knows where it came from and who knows what breeds were bred into many of these lines so who cares  Bullies come in blue tri's and that is just how it is now.

I have to agree the son looks great compared to the sire. I want a clean looking bully and the Sire is a little sloppy looking and it looks like that was cleaned up in the son. Thanks I will go check out those kennels.


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## Rudy4747

SouthernMystery said:


> Question, how in the world did we get the 'purple tri'?? I've been looking at the breed and studying it for quite awhile and there hasn't been any purple tris until recently. Is this because breeders are now breeding for color? I've noticed a couple of lines that are trying to produce only tri color dogs.


I would assume it was from breeding dogs with the Champagne colored lines to blue tri lines. it is just a champagne colored dog with tri points.


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## pitbullmamanatl

*BLUE & TAN POINT (also called tri-color)*Here is "Disco". She is another variation of the "tri-color". You will hear this also called a blue-tri.
It is an Am Staff color.


















This little puppy is showing all the places that will have the tan 'points'. The points will be on the cheeks, dots over the eyes, inside of ears, somewhere on the chest, and on the bottom half of the legs and under the tail. The only place not shown on this puppy that is a dead giveaway is under the tail.


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## pitbullmamanatl

SouthernMystery said:


> That's what gets me. I've never seen a purple tri before,all these made up colors are making us look like complete idiots. What about ghost tris? They are like a blue tri with light fawn makings.


Purple tris and ghost tris are just exotic terms used for marketing purposes.
This is an example of a "ghost tri"


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## performanceknls

Well there you go it is an AST color, see you learn something new everyday


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## Rudy4747

performanceknls said:


> Well there you go it is an AST color, see you learn something new everyday


So how does an amstaff color pop up? And not be possible in APBT. They run back to the same dogs. So aren't the same things possible in the APBT. I mean there were and are allot of people out there that say you can not have a Blue APBT.


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## yelic

@ Performance Kennels. IMO, you have some of the finest APBTs out there. And judging by what I've heard, a lot of people seem to think so too. I'm not trying to be rude, but your interest in American Bully's seems a little strange, especially since most APBT owners value having an athletic dog, and don't particularly care for the exaggerated looks of an AmBully. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just curious as to what attracts you to the breed.


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## pitbullmamanatl

yelic said:


> @ Performance Kennels. IMO, you have some of the finest APBTs out there. And judging by what I've heard, a lot of people seem to think so too. I'm not trying to be rude, but your interest in American Bully's seems a little strange, especially since most APBT owners value having an athletic dog, and don't particularly care for the exaggerated looks of an AmBully. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just curious as to what attracts you to the breed.


Just because a dog is an American Bully doesn't mean it can't be athletic. Lisa, like many members here, like clean,correct, and well-built bullies. Sorry to speak for you Lisa, but I have seen you say that many times.


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## dixieland

I think they are talking about the big difference between her dogs and the Ambully.Because there is one.


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## pitbullmamanatl

dixieland said:


> I think they are talking about the big difference between her dogs and the Ambully.Because there is one.


Yes, I am aware there is a difference.


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## dixieland

glad we're in agreement then


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## Sadie

performanceknls said:


> Well there you go it is an AST color, see you learn something new everyday


I have never seen a blue-tri staff have you? This was taken from the Staff forum I don't believe even this color shows up in the staff very often and if it does according to the AKC standards and color charts those dog's would have a tuff time competing and winning. If they do happen well they probably are shown in the UKC as according to what I have read color is immaterial within that registry. I would like to see a blue-tri staff pedigree I am going to look around for one.

Showing a blue-tri with the AKC would be difficult based on the AKC standards.

You have three things against you from the start....*the dog has a blue nose and will be faulted to the extent that it is not BLACK (if it's real dark, not too bad...the lighter the nose, the more the fault). *

*Also the tri is what is referred to in the standard as "black and tan" (it refers to that tan point pattern seen in Dobermans). It is "not to be encouraged". *

*This color probably also has lighter eyes than the "dark" called for in the standard and that would be a fault as well. *

There have certainly been blue champions and there have been black and tan champions....can't think specifically of a blue tan point, but I bet there have been. The dog would have to be very nice in all other aspects. Structure and temperament would be of more importance; *the color/pattern combination is not a disqualification but won't be easy to overcome either. *

In UKC, color is immaterial.

Carla


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## Sadie

And here is the standard and everything is correct as stated above as far as faults are concerned it's all in the AKC standard. Tan and Black are not to be encouraged. That would refer to the tan and black tri's. I am still looking around for some blu-tri staff peds.

American Kennel Club - American Staffordshire Terrier

and here is the color chart

American Kennel Club - Breed Colors and Markings


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