# Are These Pitbulls



## mikeyyboy (Jan 29, 2008)

I know there is alot of misconceptions between a "true" pitbull and a mix. I am looking for a pitbull do you think bluemagicpits.com is a good choice? I have my eye on bam bam. can you tell me what you think from these pictures? http://bluemagicpits.com/v-web/gallery/BAMBAM-THE-MAN?page=2

Thanks alot guys


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

just from looking at the pictures it looks like a mix to me. do you have a pedigree to the dog that would help me to see f it some from bully lines. I'm sure its from some bully bloodline.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Mixed. He may be some type of "bully" and probably has some APBT or AST in him somewhere but he's not full blooded. I don't care what his ped says.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

yeah i would say american bully definately NOT a true pitbull terrier!!!!! there are some websites that will show you true pit standards so maybe you should look at some so u will have something to reffer back to.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

He looks alot like the dogs they say are APBT in Dog Fancy. I don't think it is a real pitbull but that seems to be the way the line is going. I perfer the old stander for our breed.


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

looks like a bully to me!! A very pretty Bully at that!


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

MY MIKADO said:


> He looks alot like the dogs they say are APBT in Dog Fancy. I don't think it is a real pitbull but that seems to be the way the line is going. I perfer the old stander for our breed.


how the hell can you go from our "normal" standard to that huge thing!!?? i agree with you mikado. our original standard is a lot better and should be left as is!!! i mean there has to be some kind of mix there cuz as far as i know that dog looks nothing like a true pitbull and had to be mixed because true pitbulls dont have genetics to look like that!! i mean compare him to our pitbulls. i would say he looks like a bully to me! he looks like a bully stands like a bully and is heavy like a bully so he must be a bully. even if he is some kind of new generation of a pitbull terrier and is seperate from a bully im still gonna be indenial!! just thinking of it gets me upset!! i love the original standard apbts were bred to look they way they do for a reason and it wasnt fashion either!!


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I know I perfer the APBT to look like a APBT but if you look at what is being called a pitbull you will see this type of dog 9 out 10 times. I do believe that they are Am. Bullies but they are allowed to register them as APBT so in fact the breed stander is changing.


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Am Bully for sure..


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

He's a pretty bully. I don't know anything about whether or not he's mixed. Have you tried contacting the kennel and asking about the pedigree?


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## gamecock10 (Nov 26, 2006)

American Bully Breed.....nothing wrong with that I guess as long as their not trying to tag them APBT's.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

i agree i dont have a problem with american bullies just other peoples ignorance!


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

They're AmBullies.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Scroll to the bottom of the page, you will find the Bam Bam you need to look for.

By the way the first dog, Hagen is Rebel's dad and Lugnut is Switch's
I made this site for Eddie.

http://www.falins-pits.com/studs.htm


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Great looking dogs with respectable credentials. I like the site too.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Now that looks like a pitbull. I always thought that Reble must of had a good looking dad but WOW Hagen is :love2:


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Nice site, OldFort. Great looking dogs.


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Now, them there are "Pitbulls" boys and girls...


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

They have a bully bloodline (Razors Edge) in their breeding program. Not sure which dogs have Razors Edge blood though.

http://www.bluemagicpits.com/page2.html


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Looks like Bam Bam is free and clear but I could be wrong..


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

I really thought that this site was around for people to gab about their loved dogs, Not about what is true or not????  

I love the Ambullies!! They are awesome looking dogs....


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

pantera2006 said:


> I really thought that this site was around for people to gab about their loved dogs, Not about what is true or not????
> 
> I love the Ambullies!! They are awesome looking dogs....


I love the AMBully too but if I was out there searching for a APBT I wouldn't want someone to tell me that what I was buying was a pitbull when in fact it was a bully. This OP asked what we thought of this Pitbull and you have to admitt this dog doesn't have the true confrimation of a APBT.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

This is a good example of how you can't tell whether an dog is an Ambully or APBT just by looking at it. Without peds you don't know. There are many Ambullies that have retained more terrier characteristics than others, and can easily be passed of as purebred APBTs. Not all bullies are large, fat, and wrinkly...LOL


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## COASTIEPIT (Sep 28, 2007)

They look like those Muggleston farm dogs


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Hopefully you're refering to the OP..LOL


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I have seen bam bam a number of times, beautiful dog. but your instincs are correct. bam bam looks like a european pit/mastiff mix. Lots of folk have bred mastiff in for head shape and muscle definition... thems is fightin' dogs.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

i will never understand the prices. if you want a big, tough looking dog fine, but why charge $2500 per pup?


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> This is a good example of how you can't tell whether an dog is an Ambully or APBT just by looking at it. Without peds you don't know. There are many Ambullies that have retained more terrier characteristics than others, and can easily be passed of as purebred APBTs. Not all bullies are large, fat, and wrinkly...LOL


If they look correct to the APBT conformation then they are not AmBully. An AmBully must look like an AmBully. I have friends with these dogs also and if it looks like my dog no matter the bloodline then they wouldn't consider that a proper AmBully. Just like APBT wouldn't consider a long dog, short legs and small head to be a proper APBT. If you are breeding AmBully and get a classic looking dog that should be a cull because it doesn't represent the AmBully. The same with those breeding conformation APBT, even if it has nice CH in the pedigree if it isn't a true representation it is a cull. Who cares about pedigrees, no reason to breed for pretty papers.
There are bloodlines that were used to start the AmBully also like RE but not all RE dogs are AmBully. The old school greyline stuff also is the same, more typy APBT/AST then AmBully. Some people still breed those lines to that so they are not AmBully because they didn't want the Bully style.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> If they look correct to the APBT conformation then they are not AmBully. An AmBully must look like an AmBully. I have friends with these dogs also and if it looks like my dog no matter the bloodline then they wouldn't consider that a proper AmBully. Just like APBT wouldn't consider a long dog, short legs and small head to be a proper APBT. If you are breeding AmBully and get a classic looking dog that should be a cull because it doesn't represent the AmBully. The same with those breeding conformation APBT, even if it has nice CH in the pedigree if it isn't a true representation it is a cull. Who cares about pedigrees, no reason to breed for pretty papers.
> There are bloodlines that were used to start the AmBully also like RE but not all RE dogs are AmBully. The old school greyline stuff also is the same, more typy APBT/AST then AmBully. Some people still breed those lines to that so they are not AmBully because they didn't want the Bully style.


Even if an AmBully meets APBT conformation standards they still aren't APBTs. It's all about the bloodlines (pedigree), not looks. AmBullies still don't have a consistent look yet. The foundation dogs used to start RE and Greyline aren't AmBullies, but the Razors Edge and Greyline dogs are AmBullies. Those foundation dogs aren't considered Razors Edge or Greyline, because they weren't produced by Dave Wilson or Tony Moore. Those dogs were bought from other kennels. All RE and Greyline dogs are AmBullies.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

I know what you mean, but typically speaking. If you see an correct dog to ADBA standards then any AmBully fancier I know won't call that an AmBully and certainly wouldn't breed them no matter the bloodline. I realize they've still got some work to do on standards and whatnot.

I think to say that *all* RE dogs are AmBully just isn't fair. There are people breeding them to the UKC/AKC standards that don't wish to be associated with AmBully. There are people showing/breeding RE dogs (even showing some in ADBA) who really stand by that bloodline and they themselves say not all RE dogs are AmBully there are still some classic ones left. They have what they've produced as an example. They get very irritated and upset to see people think all RE dogs are Bullies. This is what I'm going on, I myself don't have much experience just know a few who are passionate about RE stuff. So I guess people seem to have different opinion on it I didn't mean to give bad info.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> I know what you mean, but typically speaking. If you see an correct dog to ADBA standards then any AmBully fancier I know won't call that an AmBully and certainly wouldn't breed them no matter the bloodline. I realize they've still got some work to do on standards and whatnot.
> 
> I think to say that *all* RE dogs are AmBully just isn't fair. There are people breeding them to the UKC/AKC standards that don't wish to be associated with AmBully. There are people showing/breeding RE dogs (even showing some in ADBA) who really stand by that bloodline and they themselves say not all RE dogs are AmBully there are still some classic ones left. They have what they've produced as an example. They get very irritated and upset to see people think all RE dogs are Bullies. This is what I'm going on, I myself don't have much experience just know a few who are passionate about RE stuff. So I guess people seem to have different opinion on it I didn't mean to give bad info.


I see where you're comin' from, but it's a fact that all RE dogs are AmBullies. I just happen to own one that does meet APBT conformation. A lot of AmBully owners are just in denial about what they really are. Even the creator of the Razors Edge bloodline, Dave Wilson, calls them American Bullies. They started out as an AmStaff/APBT cross, some still are an AmStaff/APBT cross, but some have more bulldog mixed in to create a more bullier look.


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## bradthepit (Jul 30, 2006)

I would say Am Bully, or an out of condition pit. Structually around skull it looks Am Bully. Not a bad looking dog. I must say, at least it's not 2" to the shoulder, like RE:rofl:


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## BullyNavy (Feb 10, 2008)

My dog is ukc and so is the dad. Pits have been line bred alot for looks like that. Maybe their not full bred pitbulls but they are some beast of dogs. Heres my pups bully dad


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> I see where you're comin' from, but it's a fact that all RE dogs are AmBullies. I just happen to own one that does meet APBT conformation. A lot of AmBully owners are just in denial about what they really are. Even the creator of the Razors Edge bloodline, Dave Wilson, calls them American Bullies. They started out as an AmStaff/APBT cross, some still are an AmStaff/APBT cross, but some have more bulldog mixed in to create a more bullier look.


So they are all mixed? You honestly think that or has it been said and proven? I have no idea and I'm still trying to learn about it. I could see how that is possibly with some people who have other non bully lines that are APBT mix but they look pure via selective breeding.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

BullyNavy said:


> My dog is ukc and so is the dad. Pits have been line bred alot for looks like that. Maybe their not full bred pitbulls but they are some beast of dogs. Heres my pups bully dad


Looks like you own an American Bully, like myself. Selective breeding alone doesn't get dogs to look like that. Most American Bullies have more bulldog mixed in to give them a more bully look along with AmStaff blood.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> So they are all mixed? You honestly think that or has it been said and proven? I have no idea and I'm still trying to learn about it. I could see how that is possibly with some people who have other non bully lines that are APBT mix but they look pure via selective breeding.


All AmBullies are mixed. A few are just an AmStaff/APBT cross, but the majority of them have more bulldog (breed not specified) mixed in to give them a bullier look. Selective breeding alone doesn't make them look like they do.


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## BullyNavy (Feb 10, 2008)

Ok i understand. Then how are people able to get them papered?


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

BullyNavy said:


> Ok i understand. Then how are people able to get them papered?


Hanging papers unfortunately isn't hard. How different is it from registering any other litter. I guess look at it this way. I breed my female APBT to a male xbreed and then register the litter using my male APBTs name and number for the sire. They get papers that say they are from my male and female APBT, how would they know that the sire isn't really xbreed when I sent in false paperwork.



SouthKakBully said:


> All AmBullies are mixed. A few are just an AmStaff/APBT cross, but the majority of them have more bulldog (breed not specified) mixed in to give them a bullier look. Selective breeding alone doesn't make them look like they do.


That is what I'm asking, some are kept them "pure" (APBT/AST) others have went the bully route. The ones directly off of Throwin' Knuckles and Inna Rage shouldn't be "American Bully" because they are no different then any other APBT/AST cross I'd think. I guess those are few and far between? I've seen some which maintained it though along with other lines of AST (with a little APBT blood) and other people have bred them bully and mixed I guess. Thats where I find this all confusing. I've always thought many were mixed, I know selective breeding goes a long way (like current day English Bulldog) but most AmBully and XL Pits were obtained in just 1 or 2 generations of breeding at least the ones I've seen. There wasn't any basis to even selectively breed on, they just suddenly were 100lbs like some of the weight pull dogs I've seen. There was also an AmBully I saw who was supposed to be gamebred and was 100lbs and blue, the papers were totally hung, no way it came out of the parents they were stating. Its so freaking obvious.

What is Cairo, is he not pure or is he bred as the papers say. If you have any knowledge on this.


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## BullyNavy (Feb 10, 2008)

So do you look upon am bullys negatively? I wouldnt I mean its one of my favorite styles and some of the best looking dogs. But i can understand about falsifying stuff like papers. So is there any info on how they are breeding these dogs and what they are crossin them with? I would love some info on sites and some examples.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

They are what they are, I don't look on them negatively. I don't like them honestly, just like I don't like many breeds. I like APBTs and a few other breeds, so I'm really picky. A lot of people think that APBT people hate AmBullies or something but I don't. Its not about that, they are just not the breed for me. I like very athletic, agile working breeds Malinois, APBTs, performance American Bulldogs (which look similar to APBTs), and breeds like that. Many breeds don't fit that criteria AmBully included. Performance AB breeders don't like English Bulldogs in working terms. Modern English Bulldogs are considered useless for holding and catch work. People still like them though, so its not for us to hate them. I don't want to own an AmBully and I see no purpose for them so you see what I mean. People like lots of pet breeds who've never even been bred for a working purpose ever. I just don't. 

To me they are anything but some of the best looking dogs. They are not good looking at all. See thats JMO was is good or even best looking is subjective. Some think Greyhounds are the best looking dogs out there, others think they are ugly and only like large, drooling mastiff breeds, so different strokes for different folks. What looks best to me is a conformationally correct APBT that is in great physical condition. People like different things.

Paper hanging is always bad and its wrong, not the dogs fault though. I'm sure the above poster could help you with all that. They seem to have a lot of knowledge.


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Most APBT people don't hate AmBullys we just dislike them being called APBT's when their obviously not. For the record I have seen some pics of some that are in really good shape and very athletic which is what I Like.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

my major beef is with the ambully people, not the dogs. they bash the APBT...plain and simple. whenever you catch a p.o.s. bully breeder advertising hi/her dogs as a "family dog thats less aggressive than the apbt" thats what theyre doing. when its got rough for us apbt owners, they are trying to seperate themselves completely. i realize that there is a rumor of no more UKC papers for the RE line, and that may very well be the reasoning for the new registry, but i dont even like the fact that they are insinuating the APBT is "too aggressive" to be a family dog. they can have them unhealthy half breeds,and im sorry if that offends you, but it is the truth, and when the money train cashes out the breeders better get a second job to pay the bills. they wont, theyll just breed up the next fad.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> my major beef is with the ambully people, not the dogs. they bash the APBT...plain and simple. whenever you catch a p.o.s. bully breeder advertising hi/her dogs as a "family dog thats less aggressive than the apbt" thats what theyre doing. when its got rough for us apbt owners, they are trying to seperate themselves completely. i realize that there is a rumor of no more UKC papers for the RE line, and that may very well be the reasoning for the new registry, but i dont even like the fact that they are insinuating the APBT is "too aggressive" to be a family dog. they can have them unhealthy half breeds,and im sorry if that offends you, but it is the truth, and when the money train cashes out the breeders better get a second job to pay the bills. they wont, theyll just breed up the next fad.


I'll admit there are lot of BYBs that are involved with AmBullies, but there are good breeders out there who health test their dogs prior to breeding. A lot of AmBully owners see it the way you do, but from a different perspective. They think APBT people are bashing them and their dogs every chance they get. That's the main reason why they are tryin' to seperate themselves. There is no truth to the rumor about no more UKC papers for the RE line, because UKC is making tons of money off of the bully explosion. Bullies are also registered with other registries like the AKC, ADBA, and ABKC. I happen to own both an APBT and a Bully, and from my experience, Bullies are less dog aggressive and not as high energy as the APBT. APBTs and Bullies both make very good campanions and family dogs. Both breeds are very smart and I love their similarities as well as their differences. As far as health problems, neither of my dogs have had any health problem. AmBullies are definitely not a fad, they're here to stay. They just need to get some consistency in the breed and get rid of the BYBs.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> That is what I'm asking, some are kept them "pure" (APBT/AST) others have went the bully route. The ones directly off of Throwin' Knuckles and Inna Rage shouldn't be "American Bully" because they are no different then any other APBT/AST cross I'd think. I guess those are few and far between? I've seen some which maintained it though along with other lines of AST (with a little APBT blood) and other people have bred them bully and mixed I guess. Thats where I find this all confusing. I've always thought many were mixed, I know selective breeding goes a long way (like current day English Bulldog) but most AmBully and XL Pits were obtained in just 1 or 2 generations of breeding at least the ones I've seen. There wasn't any basis to even selectively breed on, they just suddenly were 100lbs like some of the weight pull dogs I've seen. There was also an AmBully I saw who was supposed to be gamebred and was 100lbs and blue, the papers were totally hung, no way it came out of the parents they were stating. Its so freaking obvious.
> 
> What is Cairo, is he not pure or is he bred as the papers say. If you have any knowledge on this.


Yeah, there are some that are still an APBT/AmStaff cross, but the bulk of them have more bulldog mixed (breed not specified). Unethical breeders do this to reach their goal a lot quicker, instead of taking the longer route (selective breeding). Those 100+ lbs dogs you're talkin' about are either severely overweight or they have mastiff blood mixed in to increase height and size, which makes them something else (not AmBullies, nor APBTs). Kennels like Iron Cross, Creekside, and Ghanghis Khon try to pass them off as APBTs and AmBullies. As far as Purple Rose O' Cairo is concerned, he is bred as the papers say, but there are certain individual dogs that have questionable parentage. That's why I really dislike the Gottiline dogs, because there is a lot more paper hanging going on this bloodline. The reason a lot of Gottiline BYBs lie about the parentage is to give themselves an advantage over other breeders, because if you don't know who the real sire and dam is, you wouldn't know how to breed the dogs to get the results you want.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

BullyNavy said:


> So do you look upon am bullys negatively? I wouldnt I mean its one of my favorite styles and some of the best looking dogs. But i can understand about falsifying stuff like papers. So is there any info on how they are breeding these dogs and what they are crossin them with? I would love some info on sites and some examples.


I like the way AmBullies and APBTs look, but it's all very subjective. Paper hanging is real problem when comes to AmBullies. It even happens with gamelines. If you want to learn more about AmBullies just talk to some of the responsible breeders (Not BYBs) and checkout some of the bully forums. More bulldog blood has been added to create a bullier look (breed not specified).


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

if the UKC continues to register the RE dogs, i know of alotta people who will despite it issues, register w/ the ADBA only. the RE line has too many questions about its history for true doggers to ever consider owning one. i admit the early ones were attractive, but wilson admitting the addition of English Bulldog blood into the mix was too much. i dont have a problem with an APBT/Am Staff , but the ones that show the bulldog traits are a major vet bill waiting to happen. every RE dog ive ever known of was delivered by C-section, and later developed everything from breathing problems to arthritis. i dont know about you guys/girls i try to see my vet as little as possible!


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> if the UKC continues to register the RE dogs, i know of alotta people who will despite it issues, register w/ the ADBA only. the RE line has too many questions about its history for true doggers to ever consider owning one. i admit the early ones were attractive, but wilson admitting the addition of English Bulldog blood into the mix was too much. i dont have a problem with an APBT/Am Staff , but the ones that show the bulldog traits are a major vet bill waiting to happen. every RE dog ive ever known of was delivered by C-section, and later developed everything from breathing problems to arthritis. i dont know about you guys/girls i try to see my vet as little as possible!


Dave Wilson never said anything adding any English Bulldog blood. I don't where you got that from. Please point to the source of that info. There are still Bullies out there that resemble the old RE stuff. You obviously don't know anything about AmBullies, because I've heard of or seen any AmBully being delivered by C-section...LOL! If that was the issue, BYBs and puppymillers wouldn't breed them, because they're tryin' to spend as little money on their dogs as possible. I've been around both AmBullies (especially RE) and APBTs for years. The highly doubt that the bulldog that was mixed in is an English Bulldog. I own an AmBully and my boy doesn't have any health problems. The only dogs you see with health problems are the ones being bred by BYBs and puppymillers. I hope you know that there more bully bloodlines out there, not just RE!


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

wilson most certainly did admit to mixing in EB blood, the info is out there, go looking. i ve read it several times and i dont go looking for bully talk usually. so you got a healthy bully so far, consider youself lucky. ive talked to plenty of people who went thru the "high rollers" in the bully world, you know the ones that grace the cover of the magazines, and these animals are sickly. Gotti, Razors Edge, especially. im not gonna argue this anymore, as they arent exactly my thing, but nowadays you cant help but learn alittle about em considering the overwhelming numbers that are being cranked out and ending up in all the wrong places. if you are on a forum or two, usually you end up trying to help some poor newbie who thought they were buying a true bulldog.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> wilson most certainly did admit to mixing in EB blood, the info is out there, go looking. i ve read it several times and i dont go looking for bully talk usually. so you got a healthy bully so far, consider youself lucky. ive talked to plenty of people who went thru the "high rollers" in the bully world, you know the ones that grace the cover of the magazines, and these animals are sickly. Gotti, Razors Edge, especially. im not gonna argue this anymore, as they arent exactly my thing, but nowadays you cant help but learn alittle about em considering the overwhelming numbers that are being cranked out and ending up in all the wrong places. if you are on a forum or two, usually you end up trying to help some poor newbie who thought they were buying a true bulldog.


You haven't given me any credible sources, because Dave Wilson never said he used any English Bulldog to create Razors Edge. Where have you read this? Sounds like you're gettin' your info from people that have no knowledge about the breed, probably some anti-bully people who like to start rumors. I know some the people that own some of these so called "high rollers" of the bully world and their bullies don't have any more health problems than your average pure APBTs. I have friends and family members that own bullies, and they haven't had any problems with their dogs. I don't deny that more bulldog was introduced into the American Bully, but it's definitely not an English Bulldog.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

search Razors Edge dogs and English Bulldog blood....it will lead you to some posts on different forums, you will be suprised whos discussing the subject and what is said. i know because i did it on yahoo an hour ago. look hard enough and you ll find some pretty compelling evidence.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> search Razors Edge dogs and English Bulldog blood....it will lead you to some posts on different forums, you will be suprised whos discussing the subject and what is said. i know because i did it on yahoo an hour ago. look hard enough and you ll find some pretty compelling evidence.


I did the search and I still haven't seen any CREDIBLE sources or evidence. Dave Wilson didn't use any English Bulldog blood and he never said he did. If this type of breeding did occur (RE/English Bulldog), it's only an isolated incident done by some BYB as attempt to create another breed. If you had said Gottiline/English Bulldog breeding, I would definitely believe you...LOL! Now I have seen some Gottiline dogs that look like straight bulldogs. A lot people in the bully community already know about these types of breeding happening in the Gotti bloodline. That's why a lot of people choose to stay away from it, because they don't know how to breed them to get the results they want.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

you are right, these are the same breed. no neopolitan or english bulldog blood here. i wont name names


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

that is/was a highly anticipated RE litter. i do like the female, but that male is gross.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> that is/was a highly anticipated RE litter. i do like the female, but that male is gross.


Those dogs that BYBs claim to be AmBullies and APBTs that have mastiff blood are neither AmBullies or APBT, no matter what bloodlines they try to hide behind. That male can't be RE or even close to being 100% RE. Most RE dogs have a distinct look and he doesn't have it. RE dogs are bred to compact and muscular, with bricked shaped heads and blocky muzzles, not tall and big like that dog. That female is too tall also. He might be from another bully bloodline. That's definitely NOT an highly anticipated RE litter. Both of those dog are unknowns.


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## PRBreeder (Feb 10, 2008)

it depends in the kind of pitbull that you are looking for. Here in Puerto Rico all the people I know owns the bully type, the big an strong ones. I personally like the two types the bully an the american but those mixed breeds are made for look muscle strength and size. But the blue pitbulls are very strong and they look good.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> Those dogs that BYBs claim to be AmBullies and APBTs that have mastiff blood are neither AmBullies or APBT, no matter what bloodlines they try to hide behind. That male can't be RE or even close to being 100% RE. Most RE dogs have a distinct look and he doesn't have it. RE dogs are bred to compact, not tall and big like that dog. He might be from another bully bloodline. That's definitely not an highly anticipated RE litter.


first you tell me in that post is that ambullies dont have mastiff in them, and later you mention that the dog in question might be from another bully line?????


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> first you tell me in that post is that ambullies dont have mastiff in them, and later you mention that the dog in question might be from another bully line?????


If they have any mastiff blood in them, they're not AmBullies.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

so an ambully is entirely apbt/amstaff? thats what you think?


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Here are a couple examples of 100% RE dogs.

Blue of Ruckus


















CH Cali Causin a Ruckus


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

yuck , ill take this


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> so an ambully is entirely apbt/amstaff? thats what you think?


A few AmBullies out there are an APBT/AmStaff cross, but the majority of them have more bulldog mixed in to create a bullier look. I'm not denying that more bulldog was mixed in, but it wasn't an English Bulldog (At least not in the RE Bloodline). A bully bloodlines like the new Gottiline and Greyline stuff might have some English Bulldog mixed in.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

Tudors' Black Jack was left open at any weight, and Mr. Tudor stated he was the best bulldog hed owned


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> yuck , ill take this


Different strokes for different folks. I happen to own both an AmBully and an APBT, so I love them both.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> A few AmBullies out there are an APBT/AmStaff cross, but the majority of them have more bulldog mixed in to create a bullier look. I'm not denying that more bulldog was mixed in, but it wasn't an English Bulldog (At least not in the RE Bloodline). A bully bloodlines like the new Gottiline and Greyline stuff might have some English Bulldog mixed in.


why the hell do they cost soooo much then? they arent even a purebred


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> why the hell do they cost soooo much then? they arent even a purebred


Because that's how puppymillers make a living. There are affordable, quality AmBullies out there though. Puppymillers and BYBs set there prices so high to make ignorant people think their dogs are better than everything else out there.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

now after all this, would ya believe i got a bitch thats half camelot?


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

shes gonna pull for me, big tall strong girl


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> now after all this, would ya believe i got a bitch thats half camelot?


See you got a Bully over there. Sometimes you can't tell by looking at them.


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## Marine1 (Oct 10, 2007)

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/102006/10062006/226864

Im not sure if this is actually Dave Wilson's comments, but this was printed in a local Fredericksburg, Va newspaper. Razors Edge was created in Virginia by Dave Wilson and a fellow breeder. Hopefully this might help with the discussion!!!


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

yeah, shes sweet, but i do have the "real deal" too....little pipsqueek gamebred APBT!


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

Marine1 said:


> http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/102006/10062006/226864
> 
> Im not sure if this is actually Dave Wilson's comments, but this was printed in a local Fredericksburg, Va newspaper. Razors Edge was created in Virginia by Dave Wilson and a fellow breeder. Hopefully this might with this discussion!!!


i ve read a bunch of stories like that...if ya ask me there is some basset hound in some of them bully lines too!


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> Different strokes for different folks. I happen to own both an AmBully and an APBT, so I love them both.


lets see your APBT and its ped


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

Ive seen a dog that had apbt/amstaff/AmericanBulldog. If that dog was bred with a really thick blue bitch, no doubt you would get an Ambully type dog. Personally the old razors edge stuff is what I like. They look closer to the old school dogs of the past.

http://file037b.bebo.com/1/large/2007/12/12/23/1689337412a6357817283l.jpg
http://file040a.bebo.com/1/large/2007/12/13/06/1689337412a6359170916l.jpg
http://file037b.bebo.com/6/large/2007/12/13/06/1689337412a6359183301l.jpg
http://file042b.bebo.com/7/large/2008/01/04/13/1689337412a6531327274l.jpg
http://file042b.bebo.com/7/large/2008/01/04/13/1689337412a6531327248l.jpg

1. TRUE BLUE GLORY
2 SADEYS PADDINGTON
3. THROWING KNUCKLES
4. INNA RAGE
5. FOREVER JUNIOR


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

come on, even the old RE stuff... apbt/am staff is a halfbreed at best.


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

thats true but I never said ol school edge was pure. When Im talking about ol school dogs of the past im talking about apbt and amstaff. The American Staffordshire Terrier and the APBT were the same dogs until the mid 1930s when the "pit" part of the United Kennel Club's name for the breed found hostility at the AKC.


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## jason r (Feb 6, 2008)

most blue dogs look unhealthy.i personally hope the blue thing is a fad cause there disgusting.jmho


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

thats cool if you think that way nothing wrong. I personally dont like chihuahuas . Scary little things.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> come on, even the old RE stuff... apbt/am staff is a halfbreed at best.


The thing you don't realize is that all breeds have to start from some where, even the APBT, which is a bull n terrier mix. When they were first introduced they were halfbreeds also. Over time you gain consistency in temperament, structure, and drive as breeder breed within the standards that are set for the breed. Right now, consistency seems to be a big problem for the AmBully, but the breed has been around less than 20 years, not over a century like the APBT. Just give them some time.


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## jason r (Feb 6, 2008)

i dont care what they have in them,as long as people understand they are not an APBT.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

i love when a bully thread pops up, bully fanciers start educating APBT owners on the history of our breed. no need, i know the history. 150+ years ago when the bull and terrier breeds were being established, at least they had a purpose....a working dog. bullys are a money maker, and thats it...the breeders have managed to find a way to make a HUGE amount of money from an inconsistent animal. doesnt it feel kinda silly spending sooo much on a mutt????


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## jason r (Feb 6, 2008)

woody d said:


> doesnt it feel kinda silly spending sooo much on a mutt????


yes it does.the uneducated ones dont understand the whole am. bully thing,they think they are getting an athletic bigger pit bull.if they only stopped and did some studying but if they want to be a sucker,then let them spend there money.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> i love when a bully thread pops up, bully fanciers start educating APBT owners on the history of our breed. no need, i know the history. 150+ years ago when the bull and terrier breeds were being established, at least they had a purpose....a working dog. bullys are a money maker, and thats it...the breeders have managed to find a way to make a HUGE amount of money from an inconsistent animal. doesnt it feel kinda silly spending sooo much on a mutt????


I happen to own both an APBT and a Bully. I didn't spend a bunch of money to get my Bully. All dog breeds started out as MUTTS. Bullies are more than capable of working. They just need to be worked. That's funny coming from someone who just admitted they own a bully.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> I happen to own both an APBT and a Bully. I didn't spend a bunch of money to get my Bully. All dog breeds started out as MUTTS. Bullies are more than capable of working. They just need to be worked. That's funny coming from someone who just admitted they own a bully.


take a look at her, castillo gr. ch. blood is a major factor in her pedigree. i chose her simply because of the chocolate color. it is a dominant trait of the castillos and they are to standard, just a little large....she is exactly that. ill post a pic of her that shows she aint lookin like a bully to me.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

if you see the way some of her brothers and sisters are developing, i think i did pretty well w/my pick. shes got a 100 lb brother that is built just like her. no 25" head, not low rider or anything...just a big ADBA registered dog.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

if bullys looked like my Maiden, i would at least think they were capable of doing something other than eating and drooling.


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

Someone please name a few examples of what a Working Apbt would be doing. Besides being in weight pull. conformation, schutzund, or obedience events.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

Why is it that people always want to say they are athletic working dogs. They can try to be but do not add up to what a true working dog can do. A working dog will excel over one who is not. I don't think anyone said there isn't exceptions, we're talking majority. The English Bulldog owners still carry their dogs history but quit arguing a long time ago that the dogs were athletic working dogs. I don't know how the AmBully build transfers to athletic build.

Most I know are kept pretty fat on purpose, there is the few I've seen which were exercised and that still did nothing for them. They had a much better looking body but they still are carrying excess weight on the frame and horribly short winded. A short dog will be short winded if its due to build, work can't change that. That alone inhibits the dog from work even with a proper structure, let alone with a structure that reduces speed and agility. I got a gamebred dog bred "nice" game wise and she was worthless worker being short winded and couldn't build any wind up. She was the exception of what was being produced but is what happened. Short muzzle and shallow chest causes breathing problems. The bullies are not somehow exempt from this and most of them are bred with the shorter muzzles it seems. They are consistently short winded. A dog with joint problems also can't work for long, if they are forcing these dogs to do some type of real strenous work it will damage their dogs in the long run. Trying to force a dog like that to work could actually have bad consequences for the dog health wise. 

If they can work and just need to be worked then the people out there need to be working them to prove that before they simply claim it. This goes will a lot of other breeds to that are no longer working breeds or many AKC show dogs which really can't do what their working counterpart can. (either lack of drive or build) Some of the breeders still want to claim they can work, -they can do it, just no one does it, but they could if people wanted to to- well thats easy to say.

Most the ones I've known gave birth just fine NATURALLY. Without c section. I know some have breeding/delivery problems but I think thats still few and far between, its not like a regular deal from the bullies I know. Probably pretty much the same as with APBTs. On the other hand if they needed it bybs and mills wouldn't have a problem paying for it I don't think. Plenty of byb English Bulldog breeders do it, that is the #1 breed in US right now. There are many millers breeding them and they usually need a c section. The cost of the c section is just a little faction of their profit, the profit margin is still large. I've also seen this in Chis and Yorkie which needed them and breeder still gets 3k per pup. I could breed a dog pay $500 for the c section/medical bills and sell for 3k a pup and still make a hefty profit. If they pay 3k stud fee then I doubt they'd have a problem paying a bit for a c section.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

how about search and rescue...intensity is a bonus, plus the never quit attitude finds alotta people buried alive. if you know anything about an APBTs desire to please their owner, imagine how an APBT performs as a drug dog....largest bust in this nations history..... APBT. two jobs that they are proving their worth in and then some.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

woody d said:


> how about search and rescue...intensity is a bonus, plus the never quit attitude finds alotta people buried alive. if you know anything about an APBTs desire to please their owner, imagine how an APBT performs as a drug dog....largest bust in this nations history..... APBT. two jobs that they are proving their worth in and then some.


Are you saying this for AmBully or for what??

I don't doubt they can do some work, I guess I'm thinking highly stressful on the body requiring a true athlete when I say work. Like my female had short wind, short muzzle, shallow chest, bad back end and front end - weak elbows and such. She was like way out there compared to others, but she happened. She went to a pet home. She was actually bred to work and I'd only be kidding myself thinking she could do any truly strenuous work. So why would a dog bred for a certain look which hinders function be so good at working? Maybe at some things, but in other cases if a bully has a drive/will to work but a useless body thats not fair to them. I wouldn't purposely bred a dog like that, if it happens you just have to cull, to breed whole litters like that I don't get it.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

BIGDOG9o3 said:


> Someone please name a few examples of what a Working Apbt would be doing. Besides being in weight pull. conformation, schutzund, or obedience events.


the funny thing is an APBT can compete in all those events, how many can the bully successfully perform?


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

Old_Blood said:


> Are you saying this for AmBully or for what??
> 
> I don't doubt they can do some work, I guess I'm thinking highly stressful on the body requiring a true athlete when I say work. Like my female had short wind, short muzzle, shallow chest, bad back end and front end - weak elbows and such. She was like way out there compared to others, but she happened. She went to a pet home. She was actually bred to work and I'd only be kidding myself thinking she could do any truly strenuous work. So why would a dog bred for a certain look which hinders function be so good at working? Maybe at some things, but in other cases if a bully has a drive/will to work but a useless body thats not fair to them. I wouldn't purposely bred a dog like that, if it happens you just have to cull, to breed whole litters like that I don't get it.


i was replying to the post wanting to know what kinda work the APBT is capable of


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> take a look at her, castillo gr. ch. blood is a major factor in her pedigree. i chose her simply because of the chocolate color. it is a dominant trait of the castillos and they are to standard, just a little large....she is exactly that. ill post a pic of her that shows she aint lookin like a bully to me.


That doesn't mean she's not a Bully. If she has a bully bloodline(s) in her peds, she's a bully. Like I said, AmBullies don't have a consistent look yet. Some look identical to purebred APBTs. You wouldn't be to tell that they're bullies, even if stacked next to a purebred APBT. Your female just retained more APBT traits than bully. And a word of advice, don't choose a pup based on coat coloring.


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

nice read! Another thing that Ive always thought about. Apbt's are the all around best dog out there to me. Everyone knows the characteristics that come with a true apbt. But how do people know if their apbt is truely GAME. Just thought I'd put that out there, because most people associate GAME with fighting. From my knowledge, GAMEness has nothing to do with Bravery or Fighting Ability, it has to do with heart. So wouldnt all true apbts be Game, cause thats what they have HEART.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> That doesn't mean she's not a Bully. If she has a bully bloodline(s) in her peds, she's a bully. Like I said, AmBullies don't have a consistent look yet. Some look identical to purebred APBTs. You wouldn't be to tell that they're bullies, even if stacked next to a purebred APBT. Your female just retained more APBT traits than bully. And a word of advice, don't choose a pup based on coat coloring.


its my wifes decision, so i can assure you i know how to pick a pup. she wanted one that looked like the dam, so i picked accordingly(chocolate). if you havent figured it out yet, my kinda dog is the gamebreds...the only dog, so dont worry, i pick based on alot of things before color. i like a dog with a little fire in them, fits me alot better. some people are APBT people, and the rest might as well own poodles.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

BIGDOG9o3 said:


> nice read! Another thing that Ive always thought about. Apbt's are the all around best dog out there to me. Everyone knows the characteristics that come with a true apbt. But how do people know if their apbt is truely GAME. Just thought I'd put that out there, because most people associate GAME with fighting. From my knowledge, GAMEness has nothing to do with Bravery or Fighting Ability, it has to do with heart. So wouldnt all true apbts be Game, cause thats what they have HEART.


I agree APBTs are the ultimate athletes of the canine world. Probably 90% of the purebred APBTs out there aren't game though. Gameness is the unwillingness to quit. A true gamebred APBT doesn't know defeat. Most APBTs are just petbulls.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

woody d said:


> i was replying to the post wanting to know what kinda work the APBT is capable of


Oh I see, there is a lot of things they can do. Very versatile dogs!



SouthKakBully said:


> That doesn't mean she's not a Bully. If she has a bully bloodline(s) in her peds, she's a bully. Like I said, AmBullies don't have a consistent look yet. Some look identical to purebred APBTs. You wouldn't be to tell that they're bullies, even if stacked next to a purebred APBT. Your female just retained more APBT traits than bully. And a word of advice, don't choose a pup based on coat coloring.


So if a dog has a game bloodline in the pedigree it is a game dog? Or gamebred dog? If they have a show bloodline within the pedigree they are a showbred/show dog? If they have a weight pull dog in the pedigree they are pull bred? I really don't think so. If Jeep is in the pedigree one time a dog isn't Jeep bred. If The Duke is in the pedigree once the dog isn't Camelot or bully bred. That is like giving someone neapolitan ice cream and telling them it is chocolate because it has chocolate in it. Some people want to use it to look good, there is a bit of Gotti is in my dogs ped once so I've got a bully Gotti dog. Not. Bully people are quit to shut them down that they don't have a real bully dog just got a bit of bully in their dog. The same with the gamebred stuff, a bit of Chinaman doesn't make the dog a Chinaman dog or gamebred like people want to believe. So calling a dog bully because there is some bully line in the pedigree isn't right. I haven't actually seen their dogs pedigree so perhaps it is a bully dog but on a general basis if its a small amount of x bloodline the dog isn't usually said to be of that line or breeding.

Would you call a dog that is 1/4 GSD and 3/4 Lab still a German Shepherd Dog?


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

this is my do Maidens grand dam-Astigs Nikkis Pride...now go study the Castillo bloodline and look at my dog. Maiden dont look like a bully slob


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> I agree APBTs are the ultimate athletes of the canine world. Probably 90% of the purebred APBTs out there aren't game though. Gameness is the unwillingness to quit. A true gamebred APBT doesn't know defeat. Most APBTs are just petbulls.


I think I get what your saying! So for example, a breeder could be breeding 100% Apbts, and they would be just that 100% pit. 
But on the other hand, you'd have another breeder, breeding only Apbt's that have the extreme unwillingness to quit. Would those be Game dogs, if he or she has been doing that for years?


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

oh, and that male locked with nikkis pride is Kombat Zone....Maidens grand sire, youll see that Castillo blood is a bunch of "lookers", and none of them bully


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> So if a dog has a game bloodline in the pedigree it is a game dog? Or gamebred dog? If they have a show bloodline within the pedigree they are a showbred/show dog? If they have a weight pull dog in the pedigree they are pull bred? I really don't think so. If Jeep is in the pedigree one time a dog isn't Jeep bred. If The Duke is in the pedigree once the dog isn't Camelot or bully bred. That is like giving someone neapolitan ice cream and telling them it is chocolate because it has chocolate in it. Some people want to use it to look good, there is a bit of Gotti is in my dogs ped once so I've got a bully Gotti dog. Not. Bully people are quit to shut them down that they don't have a real bully dog just got a bit of bully in their dog. The same with the gamebred stuff, a bit of Chinaman doesn't make the dog a Chinaman dog or gamebred like people want to believe. So calling a dog bully because there is some bully line in the pedigree isn't right. I haven't actually seen their dogs pedigree so perhaps it is a bully dog but on a general basis if its a small amount of x bloodline the dog isn't usually said to be of that line or breeding.
> 
> Would you call a dog that is 1/4 GSD and 3/4 Lab still a German Shepherd Dog?


It's not about looks. It's all about the dog's lineage (peds). Since his female is half Camelot, she is a bully. If your dog has Gotti in his peds, even if it's a little bit, he's definitely a bully. Just because a dog is not bullied out, that doesn't mean he's not a bully. That also means the dogs are not purebred APBT, because as we all know bullies are mixed.


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

When I say unwillingness to quit, Im going to use hunting hogs. As in 4 or 5 APBTs getting a hold of a hog and not letting it get away till I get there to gut it.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

you call her a bully, but shes got more UKC Ch and Gr CH dogs in her ped than youd believe.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

BIGDOG9o3 said:


> I think I get what your saying! So for example, a breeder could be breeding 100% Apbts, and they would be just that 100% pit.
> But on the other hand, you'd have another breeder, breeding only Apbt's that have the extreme unwillingness to quit. Would those be Game dogs, if he or she has been doing that for years?


Sounds like you got it. A lot of people don't seem to understand that.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> you call her a bully, but shes got more UKC Ch and Gr CH dogs in her ped than youd believe.


My bully has plenty of UKC Champions and Grand Champions in his peds, but he's still a bully. There are many bullies out there that are UKC titled. Those titles don't mean that they're not bullies.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

BIGDOG9o3 said:


> When I say unwillingness to quit, Im going to use hunting hogs. As in 4 or 5 APBTs getting a hold of a hog and not letting it get away till I get there to gut it.


I believe some hog catch dogs have gameness, but the old dog men believed that the only way to test gameness is to fight their dogs. I've personally seen a dog that was severely injured by a wild hog continue to hold on to the hog, even though it was bleeding to death. I thought that dog was game, but many would argue that the dog just has a high prey drive. The dog did survive the whole ordeal.


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

woody d said:


> the funny thing is an APBT can compete in all those events, how many can the bully successfully perform?


 All the ones I posted. In my opinion If the dog isnt bully in frame to the extreme. It could very well have success in any form of work. Physical, or mental. I'd give more credit to the APBT, which would have the better attributes 
for the work. But just don't assume a bully type is worthless. Sure a big bully would get stomped in an agility event. But at the same time that Bully could be a better guard dog than any Apbt at the event.


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> I believe some hog catch dogs have gameness, but the old dog men believed that the only way to test gameness is to fight their dogs. I've personally seen a dog that was severely injured by a wild hog continue to hold on to the hog, even though it was bleeding to death. I thought that dog was game, but many would argue that the dog just has a high prey drive. The dog did survive the whole ordeal.


Very nice! The dog survived thats HEART! Fuck that true test of gameness. Id rather fist fight someone, then fight my dog!


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> this is my do Maidens grand dam-Astigs Nikkis Pride...now go study the Castillo bloodline and look at my dog. Maiden dont look like a bully slob


I now all about the Castillo bloodline. Sounds like you're still stuck on LOOKS. All bullies don't look like slobs. My bully has retained more terrier characteristics than most bullies out there. You're judging a whole breed based on some dogs that are poor representations of the breed.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> the funny thing is an APBT can compete in all those events, how many can the bully successfully perform?


There are AmBullies that have title in AKC/UKC conformation and weightpulling. Some AmBullies have even done well at obedience, protection, and bite work.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> I now all about the Castillo bloodline. Sounds like you're still stuck on LOOKS. All bullies don't look like slobs. My bully has retained more terrier characteristics than most bullies out there. You're judging a whole breed based on some dogs that are poor representations of the breed.


you are giving me crap since this dog i have was based on my wifes decision. but guess what, she was looking for a dog that conformed to an established standard that has existed for decades. your unestablished inconsistent breed(?) hasnt even existed for 2 decades, and as far as many are concerned, they are still nothing more than a mutt. im out, done with this and all i wanna say is at least my breed of choice doesnt need someone to defend them.


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

This is probably what people said back in the ol days. About pitbulls. THEYRE MUTTS MONGRELS. History repeats itself homie.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

the sad thing is, if JQP gets his way, none of the bully breeds will exist asap, my dogs and yours


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## Marine1 (Oct 10, 2007)

> There are AmBullies that have title in AKC/UKC conformation and weightpulling. Some AmBullies have even done well at obedience, protection, and bite work.


:goodpost: 
Id have to agree with you on this!!! Some people that participate in these events just want to do something fun, with their dogs, and feel their dogs will do well in these events. They could care less if their dog is the best out there, they just want their dogs to be successful. There are those that think if your dogs are not earning titles in those events, their completely wortheless.This is what I have a problem with, because if you asked these same people what titles their dogs have earned they will probably begin stuttering, and then acknowledge that they dont have titles...and some dont event participate in anything. Just because your dog has PR lineage in it's pedrigree, doesnt make it a champion. As long as someone is doing something positive with their dogs, who cares if they have titles? The only time titles matter is when someone is considering breeding?


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

thats true so lets quit bitching and moaning about this and that. we all love our dogs. that goes for me you and everybody. The excellent APBT of today is descended from some of the most powerful canines ever known. Ambully has some of the same descendants. There is a shit load of breeds out there. Can't there be one more?


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> It's not about looks. It's all about the dog's lineage (peds). Since his female is half Camelot, she is a bully. If your dog has Gotti in his peds, even if it's a little bit, he's definitely a bully. Just because a dog is not bullied out, that doesn't mean he's not a bully. That also means the dogs are not purebred APBT, because as we all know bullies are mixed.


No kidding thats exactly what I just said. PEDIGREE. LMAO if the dog has a little bit of Gotti its a bully? So bully blood over rides all over blood now? So you think if a dog is 1/16 Gotti its a Bully dog? Why does this not work with other bloodlines? If the dog is 1/16 Chinaman why is the dog not gamebred or Chinaman dog? This doesn't make sense at all. What makes bully bloodlines so different and special that they exempt the rest of the pedigree?

If their female is half Camelot then yes its half bully bred. Thats why I said I didn't see the pedigree on this particular dog. Thats between the two of you as I don't know about their female at all. Some people don't like to admit they have bullies because of the mix percentage.

I didn't say anything about looks in my last post. I was talking bloodline and pedigrees. You two are the ones talking looks as far the dog in question - her build. It would seem pretty obvious that a bully could look pure Pit if they got some throw back genes.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> you are giving me crap since this dog i have was based on my wifes decision. but guess what, she was looking for a dog that conformed to an established standard that has existed for decades. your unestablished inconsistent breed(?) hasnt even existed for 2 decades, and as far as many are concerned, they are still nothing more than a mutt. im out, done with this and all i wanna say is at least my breed of choice doesnt need someone to defend them.


That's exactly my point, the breed hasn't been around long enough to have a consistent look. AmBullies haven't really had a chance to prove themselves. People thought the same thing about APBTs when they were first introduced. Many people thought, some still think, that the only thing they're good for is fighting. I don't understand why people have all this hate for AmBullies. Your female is an AmBully, whether you like it or not. What are you talkin'? I own an APBT, as well as an AmBully. You're bashing bullies, but yet you own one.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> No kidding thats exactly what I just said. PEDIGREE. LMAO if the dog has a little bit of Gotti its a bully? So bully blood over rides all over blood now? So you think if a dog is 1/16 Gotti its a Bully dog? Why does this not work with other bloodlines? If the dog is 1/16 Chinaman why is the dog not gamebred or Chinaman dog? This doesn't make sense at all. What makes bully bloodlines so different and special that they exempt the rest of the pedigree?
> 
> If their female is half Camelot then yes its half bully bred. Thats why I said I didn't see the pedigree on this particular dog. Thats between the two of you as I don't know about their female at all. Some people don't like to admit they have bullies because of the mix percentage.
> 
> I didn't say anything about looks in my last post. I was talking bloodline and pedigrees. You two are the ones talking looks as far the dog in question - her build. It would seem pretty obvious that a bully could look pure Pit if they got some throw back genes.


If the dog's pedigree consists of any bully bloodline, it's a bully. We all agree that AmBullies aren't purebred APBTs. So that means these dogs aren't purebred APBT, so that makes them AmBullies. The reason it works that way is because we're talkin' about two different breeds, not two different bloodlines in the same breed.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> I now all about the Castillo bloodline. Sounds like you're still stuck on LOOKS. All bullies don't look like slobs. My bully has retained more terrier characteristics than most bullies out there. You're judging a whole breed based on some dogs that are poor representations of the breed.


I have another question. If those are poor representations of the breed why are they choosing those reps as what the breed should look like? The bully fanciers (majority from most I've seen) are the ones choosing those dogs so what are people on the other side supposed to think? The serious bully fanciers might have better structure and good health, they are few and far between and its not their fault they are surrounded by bybs but its just a fact they have to deal with. If 1 out of a 100 bullies is a proper bully us and others are going to see that slob bullies are preferred to represent the bully breed as they far out number the nicer bullies. They present sloppy deformed dogs so thats what we see as bullies. Maybe the good bully breeders should be out in the light a little more and try to out shine the bad ones, that might help.

Do you have pictures of your bully?


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> I have another question. If those are poor representations of the breed why are they choosing those reps as what the breed should look like? The bully fanciers (majority from most I've seen) are the ones choosing those dogs so what are people on the other side supposed to think? The serious bully fanciers might have better structure and good health, they are few and far between and its not their fault they are surrounded by bybs but its just a fact they have to deal with. If 1 out of a 100 bullies is a proper bully us and others are going to see that slob bullies are preferred to represent the bully breed as they far out number the nicer bullies. They present sloppy deformed dogs so thats what we see as bullies. Maybe the good bully breeders should be out in the light a little more and try to out shine the bad ones, that might help.
> 
> Do you have pictures of your bully?


BYBs are a huge problem in this breed. There's a pic of my bully in my avatar. I'll have to take some more updated pics later on.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

my point is, i cant stand the high priced, half EB bullies, and thats what ALOT of fanciers are shootin for. didnt you notice i complimented the RE female in the pic i posted? i like that look.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

see, your avatar doesnt look like what the publics perception of what a bully is.(IMO) they think of the hulk-like half EB or OEB or even American Bulldog, whatever is used


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

woody d said:


> my point is, i cant stand the high priced, half EB bullies, and thats what ALOT of fanciers are shootin for. didnt you notice i complimented the RE female in the pic i posted? i like that look.


Yeah, I you complimented the female, but neither of those look like 100% RE dogs. The male looked like he was mixed with some type of mastiff, which makes him something else and the female is too tall to be RE dogs. There are good AmBully breeders out there that don't charge a fortune for their dogs. Certain bloodlines like Gottiline shoot for that bulldog look, but not all of them. That why I like the RE dogs, because they're bully, but not overdone. English Bulldogs weren't used to create RE. Some more bulldog was mixed into the new RE stuff, but it wasn't the English Bulldog. It was something that's taller, without the severe underbite. I have a few ideas about what the culprit is.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> If the dog's pedigree consists of any bully bloodline, it's a bully. We all agree that AmBullies aren't purebred APBTs. So that means these dogs aren't purebred APBT, so that makes them AmBullies.


It means they have some cur blood in them. Doesn't mean they are a Bully themselves. A dog that has only one AST far back in the pedigree isn't an AST, it is Jeep/Redboy with an AST back there somewhere. The same with bullies. You need to understand genetics and percentage better. If you think one dog changes what an entire dog is and that the rest of the pedigree can be ignored then I'd question your study of breeding. There are actually breeds which have other breeds bred into the gene pool at one time or another, some was legit and others was not. This doesn't totally over ride the rest of the pedigree. There are GSD with Belgian blood in the pedigree, they don't go around still calling these dogs Malinois or cross because the dog is far back in the pedigree and doesn't count for much.

The same is true of bandogs within a pedigree. Breeding a bandog and then going back to pure APBTs for generations you no longer have a dog that is a bandog. You have a dog with a bandog in the pedigree. You can't simply label them all as you wish and forget the rest of the pedigree and lineage. I couldn't call my dog a bandog if there was a bandog in the 8th.

There are many dogs with cur blood in the pedigree which was bred out long ago. If I tried to breed bullies from a dog which had one bully in the 8th bred to a dog without an bully blood I'd pretty well be laughed at with good reason. Would the pups be pure? No, its still have the cur blood back in the pedigree. Should it be considered a bully? Well of course not. The bully blood is being further bred out and diluted.

There are plenty of other mutts and half breeds in APBT pedigrees (not AmBully types but others) they are still what they are bred as. If they are heavily bred off that line then they are considered to be of high mutt percentage. If they are only 1/32 of that line then they are considered to be what the majority of the pedigree is based on although still having the cur blood.

I guess I should have called my bitch who was 1/16 (or less) Komosinski blood a Bull Terrier cross because he used a Bull Terrier stud into his line. Forget the rest of the pedigree she is a Komosinski dog and a Bull Terrier cross at that.

It is a very simple concept. Maybe there are some breeders can explain it better. There are also books and websites dedicated to genetics and breeding principles. Goes more in depth then any short write up.


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## BIGDOG9o3 (Feb 8, 2008)

the only people that can get this dilemma situated is the guys that started this type. If they would at least, let it be known what dogs have hung papers, and what breeds are in it. If Dave Wilson would say. "We use a certain dog, that has 4 diff breeds and we breed him to most of our APBTs, and APBT/AMSTAFF mixes.
There's so much shit going on out in the world. Why would'nt they have a certain dog they keep on the down low, that has all these breeds in it. Most of the bullys have a certain look. Extra short and wide. Some what tall and thick. Short or tall and bowed out. theres gotta be atleast 3 or 4, of these quadruple breed dogs that all the bully breeders in the know are aware of.


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## Marine1 (Oct 10, 2007)

> This is probably what people said back in the ol days. About pitbulls. THEYRE MUTTS MONGRELS. History repeats itself homie.
> Today 04:10 PM


Yup....and if you look back to the history of any popular breed, they've gone through this same problem. A breed is created by mixing other breeds to fit a description of what someone wanted, whether it be looks, or for working. Then someone thought the breed lacked something, and threw another breed in the mix, until they got what they wanted. Those people disagreed over breed standard, because eveyone thought their breed was the orignal and the best, until they all came to terms to keep the same breed name,and just to have differents standards. Im sure the breeders that created the Poodle, never thought their breed would later develop into standard, and toy versions of the original dog. The same can be said about Collies, Dobies, Retreivers, Spaniels, Mastiffs, etc. The only difference between these dogs, and pitbulls is that the pitbulls are just now going through this problem instead in the beginning like most breeds. IMO it all boils down to personal preference. Another problem pitbulls have is the standard, when compared to the other breeds. When referring to weight, the UKC standard states "*not important, as long as in proportion to height. Females preferred from 30-50 lbs. Males from 35-65 lbs."(Gallagher.p.23)* Thats a 30lb difference. 30lbs can dramatically change the conformation, and performance of a dog....yet it is still accepted!!! What this tells me is if your dogs looks like it fits the standard of a APBT, then it probably can be called a APBT!!! IMO the standard of the APBT is changing with time, and thats the way it is...the same as any other breed. I think instead of the AmBully being recognized as a seperate breed, the standards will begin to reflect the size of the dog. For example, some of the smaller pitbulls will be registered as miniature or toy, and larger will be standard. Thats the only way you're going to make everyone happy while sticking to a certain standard. JUST MY OPINION!!!


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

hey south kak my account at club bully is messd up, you should invite bluebull to partake in this conversation he would have a lot more to offer. i know at one time he had a membership on here. its always a good and intersting read when he post.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

Marine1 said:


> Yup....and if you look back to the history of any popular breed, they've gone through this same problem. A breed is created by mixing other breeds to fit a description of what someone wanted, whether it be looks, or for working. Then someone thought the breed lacked something, and threw another breed in the mix, until they got what they wanted. Those people disagreed over breed standard, because eveyone thought their breed was the orignal and the best, until they all came to terms to keep the same breed name,and just to have differents standards. Im sure the breeders that created the Poodle, never thought their breed would later develop into standard, and toy versions of the original dog. The same can be said about Collies, Dobies, Retreivers, Spaniels, Mastiffs, etc. The only difference between these dogs, and pitbulls is that the pitbulls are just now going through this problem instead in the beginning like most breeds. IMO it all boils down to personal preference. Another problem pitbulls have is the standard, when compared to the other breeds. When referring to weight, the UKC standard states "*not important, as long as in proportion to height. Females preferred from 30-50 lbs. Males from 35-65 lbs."(Gallagher.p.23)* Thats a 30lb difference. 30lbs can dramatically change the conformation, and performance of a dog....yet it is still accepted!!! What this tells me is if your dogs looks like it fits the standard of a APBT, then it probably can be called a APBT!!! IMO the standard of the APBT is changing with time, and thats the way it is...the same as any other breed. I think instead of the AmBully being recognized as a seperate breed, the standards will begin to reflect the size of the dog. For example, some of the smaller pitbulls will be registered as miniature or toy, and larger will be standard. Thats the only way you're going to make everyone happy while sticking to a certain standard. JUST MY OPINION!!!


A 30lbs difference only dramatically changes the conformation and performance of the dog if thats what you breed. If you have a 35lbs and 65lbs dog that are of the same conformation then nothing is dramatically changed. Its not the weight that changes anything its exactly that CONFORMATION. There are dogs which are 20-30lbs apart but have the same build and conformation. It is accepted if the dog has proper conformation, thats why its acceptable. If the dog doesn't have proper proportions then it shouldn't be acceptable. Even a large 90lbs dog should still have the same conformation as a small dog. A bully dog is shorter but heavier, not what the APBT standard calls for.

What is your opinion on the performance? You see a dramatic effect between a smaller APBT working vs a larger APBT? The only time I do is when something else is altered and not size alone - drive, build, health and not to do with size.

I highly doubt of what you are saying....lol Since the APBT is to be about a medium sized performance breed I don't think they will make a toy APBT or something like that. They will judge the dogs according conformation and not weight. This is done in other breeds already, the dogs have a weight difference of 20 or 30lbs in the standard and they haven't went to separate classification. Check out some others out there, especially working or molosser breeds. There will always be people breeding giant dogs outside of the standard in all breeds like 50 or 60lbs oversized, this doesn't only happen in the APBT. Just like in those other breeds, there are giant Rotts and Dobies but they are not recognized as such, only bred over sized.

I doubt thats the only way to make everyone happy. It would make a lot of people upset to change the standard to reflect those dogs and classifying others as miniature or toy. It wouldn't make much sense. If crap like this did happen I'm sure yet another registry would start for the real APBT as thats how it would have to be, true APBTs fanciers sure wouldn't support such classifications and registration.


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## Marine1 (Oct 10, 2007)

> Yeah, I you complimented the female, but neither of those look like 100% RE dogs. The male looked like he was mixed with some type of mastiff, which makes him something else and the female is too tall to be RE dogs. There are good AmBully breeders out there that don't charge a fortune for their dogs. Certain bloodlines like Gottiline shoot for that bulldog look, but not all of them. That why I like the RE dogs, because they're bully, but not overdone. English Bulldogs weren't used to create RE. Some more bulldog was mixed into the new RE stuff, but it wasn't the English Bulldog. It was something that's taller, without the severe underbite. I have a few ideas about what the culprit is.


I heard it was the Old English Bulldogge, which fits the description that you're talking about far as being taller, and without the severe underbite. They also have a full tail like the pitbull. The English Bulldog has a short nub, so I dont think it was used. That would obviously cause a dramatic change in the look of the tail, and how it is carried.


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## woody d (Feb 7, 2008)

and the sad thing is, the OEB is barely a purebred, and you guys spend how much per pup?


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

Marine1 said:


> I heard it was the Old English Bulldogge, which fits the description that you're talking about far as being taller, and without the severe underbite. They also have a full tail like the pitbull. The English Bulldog has a short nub, so I dont think it was used. That would obviously cause a dramatic change in the look of the tail, and how it is carried.


Breeders probably used whatever they want, like what worked best for them. I'm sure some used OEB as I've seen some that looked just like an actual OEB even though they were supposed to be Pit Bulls. Some probably used others like the English Bulldog and who knows what. I don't see how the tails on these dogs are so dramatically different and I've seen other English Bulldog x Pit Bulls in person.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/o/oldanglicanbulldogge.htm










Why are AmBully tails so thick many times?


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

wheezie said:


> hey south kak my account at club bully is messd up, you should invite bluebull to partake in this conversation he would have a lot more to offer. i know at one time he had a membership on here. its always a good and intersting read when he post.


Maybe I should. He's not gonna say anything I haven't already said though.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> It means they have some cur blood in them. Doesn't mean they are a Bully themselves. A dog that has only one AST far back in the pedigree isn't an AST, it is Jeep/Redboy with an AST back there somewhere. The same with bullies. You need to understand genetics and percentage better. If you think one dog changes what an entire dog is and that the rest of the pedigree can be ignored then I'd question your study of breeding. There are actually breeds which have other breeds bred into the gene pool at one time or another, some was legit and others was not. This doesn't totally over ride the rest of the pedigree. There are GSD with Belgian blood in the pedigree, they don't go around still calling these dogs Malinois or cross because the dog is far back in the pedigree and doesn't count for much.
> 
> The same is true of bandogs within a pedigree. Breeding a bandog and then going back to pure APBTs for generations you no longer have a dog that is a bandog. You have a dog with a bandog in the pedigree. You can't simply label them all as you wish and forget the rest of the pedigree and lineage. I couldn't call my dog a bandog if there was a bandog in the 8th.
> 
> ...


To make this simple for ya. If a so called APBT has any bully bloodlines in their peds, even if it's 1%, they're not purebred APBTs. Even if you don't want to call them Bullies, they're still not APBTs. Anything short of 100% is not a purebred APBT.


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

SouthKakBully said:


> Maybe I should. He's not gonna say anything I haven't already said though.


i think he would have more to add. plus i wuld like to see some new pics of his dog deisel.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> A 30lbs difference only dramatically changes the conformation and performance of the dog if thats what you breed. If you have a 35lbs and 65lbs dog that are of the same conformation then nothing is dramatically changed. Its not the weight that changes anything its exactly that CONFORMATION. There are dogs which are 20-30lbs apart but have the same build and conformation. It is accepted if the dog has proper conformation, thats why its acceptable. If the dog doesn't have proper proportions then it shouldn't be acceptable. Even a large 90lbs dog should still have the same conformation as a small dog. A bully dog is shorter but heavier, not what the APBT standard calls for.
> 
> What is your opinion on the performance? You see a dramatic effect between a smaller APBT working vs a larger APBT? The only time I do is when something else is altered and not size alone - drive, build, health and not to do with size.
> 
> ...


The mistake you're making is comparing AmBullies to APBTs, using APBT standards when they're two different breeds. Any time you start breeding away from the standards you're essentially creating another breed.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

wheezie said:


> i think he would have more to add. plus i wuld like to see some new pics of his dog deisel.


im sure he would have alot to add also since he is honest about his dog,works his dog and isnt caught up in a bunch of b.s....
diesel is a real nice dog.....


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

SouthKakBully said:


> The mistake you're making is comparing AmBullies to APBTs, using APBT standards when they're two different breeds. Any time you start breeding away from the standards you're essentially creating another breed.


"am bully" isnt a breed,its a type.....


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

i agree, i know he would definitly have something to add, i can always ask deb to invite him over since she is still on clubbully.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

cane76 said:


> im sure he would have alot to add also since he is honest about his dog,works his dog and isnt caught up in a bunch of b.s....
> diesel is a real nice dog.....


If you're talkin' to me, I haven't said any dishonest about my dogs and I have big plans for my APBT and AmBully. Hopefully, Champions or Grand Champions in the making. I plan on letting them compete in obedience and weightpulling also. And what B.S. are you talkin' about?


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

cane76 said:


> "am bully" isnt a breed,its a type.....


With time it will become a breed as breeders breed toward the standards set by the ABKC. Just need to weed out the BYBs and puppymillers.


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

hey southkak would you do me a favor and invite blue bull to this discussion.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

wheezie said:


> hey southkak would you do me a favor and invite blue bull to this discussion.


I'll see what I can do. Let me see if he's on clubbully.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> With time it will become a breed as breeders breed toward the standards set by the ABKC. Just need to weed out the BYBs and puppymillers.


Sorry to say but thats impossible, pretty much. Its the same with any breed, you can't rid them of bybs and puppy millers. You good bully breeders/owners will just have to work hard to educate other bully buyers. That will help them chose the right breeder. Maybe even educate some of the bad breeders although many won't change some might with the right knowledge. If you started a different registry for the ethical breeders only that could help too, to have their litters registered they'd have to meet the requirements like in other countries they have this unlike in the US.


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## SouthKakBully (Jul 23, 2007)

Old_Blood said:


> Sorry to say but thats impossible, pretty much. Its the same with any breed, you can't rid them of bybs and puppy millers. You good bully breeders/owners will just have to work hard to educate other bully buyers. That will help them chose the right breeder. Maybe even educate some of the bad breeders although many won't change some might with the right knowledge. If you started a different registry for the ethical breeders only that could help too, to have their litters registered they'd have to meet the requirements like in other countries they have this unlike in the US.


Yeah, it's a real uphill battle! Damn, BYBs and puppymillers! They've started another registry(ABKC), but they're still allowing BYBs to register their dogs as long as they have UKC/AKC papers.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

SouthKakBully said:


> Yeah, it's a real uphill battle! Damn, BYBs and puppymillers! They've started another registry(ABKC), but they're still allowing BYBs to register their dogs as long as they have UKC/AKC papers.


I know about the ABKC, thats what I meant by another registry. I know there is registries popping up left and right but if you formed a truly ethical registry that would be pretty awesome. A registry which has good policy and policing like those of other countries. You never know if you get together with a few other people you might be able to pioneer something like that.


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## BlueBull (Dec 6, 2006)

This is seriously the third time i have tried to reply... i keep timing out, LOL.

Here we go again, a condensed version. A LOT has been covered in 10 pages some i agree with and some i do not.

as far as BYBs being a part of this breed, it was basically founded by BYBs.... they are never going to be out of it. The AmBully is a "designer" breed of sorts, it is very new and still in its early stages which is why there is so much variation in the dogs... but it is definately moving toward being its own established breed, make no mistake about that. There is a healthy following behind the breed, its not going anywhere. The issue is that the way the dogs are breed and sold produces and entices BYBs to get involved. people that are looking to make money off of dogs or are trying to live some exstravagant lifestyle think that these dogs is a way to do it. They see dogs selling for $1-5,000, stud fees as high as $10,000 per breeding, and adult dogs selling for as much as.... are you sitting down? $240, 000!!!! there is a lot of monetary gain to be had with the right dogs, and the right buyers. 
The sad part about all of that is that when you are doing anything for money ethics get compromised.... breedings go down that should never occur, dogs get bred that are clearly not breeding quality, puppies get sold as breedable dogs when they are clearly not, etc. Any time a breeder sells out an entire litter and keeps nothing for themselves its obvious that they are breeding to make an income, anytime a breeder has 10 breedings planned in a year, any times a female is bred every heat, or a male is studded to any female with the money, or anything like that... its all about the benjamins.

I saw another comment about a dog being 1/16th gotty and being considered a bully... YEAH, it would be. Anyone that has chatted with me on this subject has heard my glass of water analogy, for those that havent here it goes. Initially all dogs were mixed breeds, but once that breed reaches aconsistancy and a standard is created to add anything new to the mix changes the breed. SO lets say the APBT is a glass of water, you take that glass of water and you add an ounce of piss. Now you can add gallons of water to it but that piss is still there.... same thing for dogs, you can add some other blood and then take the resulting pups and breed them to APBTs for generations, but the bottom line is they are still mixed breed dogs... there is no way to get back to 100% water. 

As far as what breeds were used to do mixing it really depends on the line that you are looking at... it varies, some use Cane Corso, some use Neo, some use DDB, some use OEB, some use EB, some use Alapahas, some have used Johnsons, some have sue CLDs.... there have been a lot of breeds tried to add mass, bone, and to shorten leg, and increase head size.... it really depends on what pedigree you are looking at specifically. To be honest you probably will never know because the mixig was done YEARS ago in most cases (there are a few that have been done in recent years though). The reason that the dogs are gettgin so overdone now is that most are linebred repeatedly on the mixed dogs, which concentrates the mixed blood and intensifies the traits of it. SO for most people they legitamately do think they are dealing with purebred APBTs, they just need to be educated on what they are dealing with. The UKC has registered thier males and female as an APBT and thats what they run with. the registry is making so much money off of this breed boom that they arent going to turn down anything but thier collars on this. its a issue that breed enthusiasts and breeds are going to have to come to gether and police... and most people are too busy making money selling big ass "pitbulls" to care either way. Its all about education, people that know need to make sure they are sharing thier info with new comers.

its our job.


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