# Turtlebuster



## ATLAS

Is it a bloodline.If so I would like some info..thanks:hammer:


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## Patch-O-Pits

Yes it is a Bloodline and here is the dog it stems off of:
Pedigree Of : CH GAINES' TURTLEBUSTER


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## ATLAS

cool thanks for the info..::clap:


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## fancier

No it isn't.
No dog is a bloodline.
The bloodline is from the breeder.
K. G. & Co. has a basic line of dogs which are a mixture of other bloodlines.
Ch. Turtle Buster is just one of the dogs he has in his line.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

YES TURTLEBUSTER IS A BLOODLINE BASED OFF OF GAINES CH TURTLEBUSTER BRED DOWN FROM GRCH ADAM'S KINGFISH. TURTLEBUSTER IS ALSO THE SIRE OF THE FAMOUS GAINES FARGO, ALONG WITH SEVERAL OTHER NOTABLE GAMEDOGS.


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## fancier

Atlas,
misinformation is what you try to avoid.
Ch. Turtle Buster or any other named dog is never a bloodline.
A dog can't be bred to its' self. 
There for, no dog can be a bloodline.
This is a common misconception for a novice dog owner/breeder.
The choosing of which dogs are bred is done by the breeder.
In this case, K.G. & Co.

Ch. Turtle Buster was only one of many dogs which appear in the pedigrees.
If you look at K.G. & Co.'s Ch. Timex, it is mostly Ch. Paladin.
His son K.G. & Co.'s Ch. Red Dog has even less Ch. Turtle Buster in him and has a lot of I.K.'s dog on the bottom side.
K.G. & Co.'s Ch. Chisum has no Turtle Buster in him.
Yes, on paper Ch. Turtle Buster is Fargo's father but in truth, he isn't, according to K.G.

A good example of misinformation is in the above post. 
Davey's dog Kingfish, wasn't a grand champion. 
People throw titles around without independent conformation of said claim.
But again this is a common mistake because once something is told and repeated, then people begin to think it is fact, as a dog being a bloodline or false titles.


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## Ncprisonguard

TurtleBuster, just like Jeep and Eli, and Chinaman and etc etc etc.... are individual dogs that fanciers designate as a bloodline, because of those dogs ability to consistently produce their outstanding genes into their offspring.


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## MADBood

If what you say is true then no dog has a bloodline. All bloodlines are are names of a particular dog as NCprison noted, or the name of the breeder or kennel. What shall we consider a bloodline? Nice name by the way...why not just use "dogman" or "dog fighter" for all that? I would use a pinch of discretion if I were you.


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## fancier

Ncprisonguard said:


> TurtleBuster, just like Jeep and Eli, and Chinaman and etc etc etc.... are individual dogs that fanciers designate as a bloodline, because of those dogs ability to consistently produce their outstanding genes into their offspring.


No they are not.
When a dog is named, 
it is specing a particular dog from the breeder's bloodline.
As in the case with Ch. Turtle Buster he is from the Gaines bloodline or if you were to say, _Red Devil/Kingfish cross? _
Ch. Turtle Buster is from the Gaines bloodline.

Jeep isn't a bloodline. 
He is a specific dog from the J.C. Shaw or Irish Jerry bloodline. 
If we were to use your comparison he would be a Ch. Bo/Ch. Honey Bunch cross bloodline.

Eli isn't a bloodline. 
He is a particular dog from the Boudreaux bloodline same as Boze etc.

Chinaman is from the Garner bloodline who roots trace back in to Eli.
Garner also has Gr. Ch. Spike dogs as well.

Each one of these dogs have been bred to females from other bloodlines. 
To discount the female, is discounting the recognition of at least 50% of what they produced.
If you inbreed or tight line breed then it would be endless of which bloodline it would be of any of these dogs which were named according to your reference.

When people refer to bloodlines you refer to the breeder because that is who sets the bloodline.
Example: Colby, Neblett, Hemphill, Corvino etc.
Each of the bloodlines has a great number of dogs that could be credited as a bloodline according to your analogy.


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## fancier

MADBood said:


> If what you say is true then no dog has a bloodline. All bloodlines are are names of a particular dog as NC prison noted, or the name of the breeder or kennel. What shall we consider a bloodline? Nice name by the way...why not just use "dogman" or "dog fighter" for all that? I would use a pinch of discretion if I were you.


Is your response to me?
No all dogs have bloodlines but no dog *IS* a bloodline. 
The bloodline is the breeder in the pedigree of the dog.
It is THEIR bloodline!
If they chose to use their kennel name then that is the bloodline of the dog.

Thanks, I like the name too.
Do your history and you would understand the handle, as in "Dog Fancier".
Does that give you a clue about the handle and where it originated?


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## MADBood

fancier said:


> Do your history and you would understand the handle, as in "Dog Fancier".


I'm sure thats what you meant. Thanks for the history lesson.


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## Ncprisonguard

Yes Fancier.... but in that case Jeep who was bred by Crenshaw... is actually out of Finley's Bo who was 100% from the Loposay line and Ch Honeybunch who was a Bullyson/Carver dog... and Bullyson was 100% Boudreaux. See I know my history too.

But I also know that when a particular dog from a particular bloodline becomes famous... I.e. Chinaman (who isn't from Garner's "bloodline".. he's actually an Eli/Carver dog) when Chinaman became famous dogs that came down from him were then refered to as Chinaman dogs. Thus making his line a "bloodline" Dogs decended from that famous dog. That is why when people ask what bloodlines you are running... if you are running dogs descended from Jeep.. you say Jeep.... you don't say Crenshaw... well maybe you do.... but nobody else I've ever known does.


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## fancier

Ncprisonguard said:


> Yes Fancier.... but in that case Jeep who was bred by Crenshaw... is actually out of Finley's Bo who was 100% from the Loposay line and Ch Honeybunch who was a Bullyson/Carver dog... and Bullyson was 100% Boudreaux. See I know my history too.
> 
> But I also know that when a particular dog from a particular bloodline becomes famous... I.e. Chinaman (who isn't from Garner's "bloodline".. he's actually an Eli/Carver dog) when Chinaman became famous dogs that came down from him were then refered to as Chinaman dogs. Thus making his line a "bloodline" Dogs decended from that famous dog. That is why when people ask what bloodlines you are running... if you are running dogs descended from Jeep.. you say Jeep.... you don't say Crenshaw... well maybe you do.... but nobody else I've ever known does.


Actually No, Jeep was owned by James Garrett.
Many of the breeding credited to J.C. was done by other people as in the case when Honey Bunch was bred to Zebo by Ricky. 
Irish Jerry also did many of the breeding. 
Irish Jerry is the one who made her a champion and 
was the one who got her from Maurice.
If you know history then you know Honey Bunch mother's was Carver blood. So now we have at least three bloodlines in Jeep.
Knowing history as seeing the dog as I did? 
Or knowing how to read a pedigree? 
I'm just wondering the clarification of your reference to knowing history.

No, when people are asked what line they are feeding they say J.C. Shaw bloodline through Ch. Jeep is the proper way of stating what they are feeding.
You have to say it this way because Garrett did the breeding with Jeep. Shaw owned dogs off of Jeep.
What do you say when you are asked and you are feeding a dog from Lou?
You say Colby...
When you are asked what you are feeding from Bob?
You say Hemphill bloodline...etc.

This fad in making a reference caught on during the 80's and has stayed with the breed ever since but it doesn't make it correct.
No dog can be "pure" within its self because it can not be bred to its self!
If everyone use the method of which you use, when Ch. Jeep was bred to Gr. Ch. Ms Rage, you call them Jeep/Rage pups? LOL
Or they are Zebo/Honey Bunch dogs. LOL

1. a bloodline is from the breeder.
2. a strain is different bloodlines with in the breed who has the looks, characteristics and their pedigree heavily traces back of the one of the foundation breeds. 
3. a breed is pure and can reproduce its self and is made up from many other pure bred dogs.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

i just talked to kg's & co. according to them fargo is definitely off of ch turtlebuster and they would know they are kg right hand

also i have my adba papers in front of me and it is gch adams kingfish por


also there is two different gaines lines one is turtlebuster and gaines anything else. the prior is off of turtlebuster and the latter is off of timex in a different direction mainly eli crosses from what i can gather.but alot of his dogs are turtlebuster red dog crosses combining the blood to keep turtlebuster blood going


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## vegasbound

fancier said:


> Actually No, Jeep was owned by James Garrett.
> Many of the breeding credited to J.C. was done by other people as in the case when Honey Bunch was bred to Zebo by Ricky.
> Irish Jerry also did many of the breeding.
> Irish Jerry is the one who made her a champion and
> was the one who got her from Maurice.
> If you know history then you know Honey Bunch mother's was Carver blood. So now we have at least three bloodlines in Jeep.
> Knowing history as seeing the dog as I did?
> Or knowing how to read a pedigree?
> I'm just wondering the clarification of your reference to knowing history.
> 
> No, when people are asked what line they are feeding they say J.C. Shaw bloodline through Ch. Jeep is the proper way of stating what they are feeding.
> You have to say it this way because Garrett did the breeding with Jeep. Shaw owned dogs off of Jeep.
> What do you say when you are asked and you are feeding a dog from Lou?
> You say Colby...
> When you are asked what you are feeding from Bob?
> You say Hemphill bloodline...etc.
> 
> This fad in making a reference caught on during the 80's and has stayed with the breed ever since but it doesn't make it correct.
> No dog can be "pure" within its self because it can not be bred to its self!
> If everyone use the method of which you use, when Ch. Jeep was bred to Gr. Ch. Ms Rage, you call them Jeep/Rage pups? LOL
> Or they are Zebo/Honey Bunch dogs. LOL
> 
> 1. a bloodline is from the breeder.
> 2. a strain is different bloodlines with in the breed who has the looks, characteristics and their pedigree heavily traces back of the one of the foundation breeds.
> 3. a breed is pure and can reproduce its self and is made up from many other pure bred dogs.


Good info, you know your dogs!! :clap:


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## Ncprisonguard

I agree 100% with what you are saying Fancier... and you've been around longer than me apparently which is fine I am always willing to listen to an old timer. But it has been common practice since I've been messing in the dogs to refer to the bloodline by the famous dog line.. I.e. Zebo/Chinaman/Jeep/ etc etc... But like you say things changed and I came around after the common practice had been adopted.


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## fancier

CINCINNATIBULLIES said:


> i just talked to kg's & co. according to them fargo is definitely off of ch turtlebuster and they would know they are kg right hand
> 
> also i have my adba papers in front of me and it is gch adams kingfish por
> 
> also there is two different gaines lines one is turtlebuster and gaines anything else. the prior is off of turtlebuster and the latter is off of Timex in a different direction mainly eli crosses from what i can gather.but a lot of his dogs are turtlebuster red dog crosses combining the blood to keep turtlebuster blood going


I talk to K.G. the other day myself.
I've known K.G. since he got started. 
I owned Game & Grit aka Little John and many of her litter mates.
I returned her back to Vera who let K.G. take her and her sister Queenie I also had. I later got Queenie back and she died with me.
Lab Rat (owner of Don Q) was with me a couple of times when K.G. admitted Fargo was off a dog down from Eli. Many believe it was Miller's dog who was a brother to Ch. Paladin. LA Rager whelp the litter off ****** and she will also tell you, no one knows who the sire of Fargo is.

How can there be a "Turtle Buster" line and a "Timex" line? Timex was suppose to be a grandson of Ch. Turtle Buster. There isn't different lines. There is only one line, *"Gaines"!*
Why didn't he ever advertise it as the Turtle Buster line in SDJ or any other magazine? K.G. does not look at his dogs as different bloodlines, only his.

Oh btw, I have to call you on this one.
I too have ADBA paper's of Kingfish off B & B Diamond Lil and it does *NOT* say *GRAND CHAMPION!*
No sporting dog has the title of grand champion on ADBA papers, only conformation grand champions!!!!
_Adam's Art and Zebo_ only has the title of "*CHAMPION*" before their name.

Also your ADBA papers do *NOT* have POR on them!
POR aka Producer of Record is a title that was issued by "Your Friend and Mine" after T.L. Williams took over the magazine from Pete Sparks.

*ADBA never recognized POR or ROM on any paper work from their registry!!!!!*

What you are reading is more of that hyped BS from Peds Online!


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## MADBood

fancier said:


> *ADBA never recognized POR or ROM on any paper work from their registry!!!!!*
> 
> What you are reading is more of that hyped BS from Peds Online!


Now that you mentioned it, I've never noticed any "ROM" or "POM" or even "XW"... as in wins in matches on any of my ADBA papers.


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## shadowgames

1111111111111


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## fancier

I have seen many off Ch. Turtle Buster and his litter mates.
I've had fun with them.
Personally, I like my dogs off Ch. Red Dog the best.


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## shadowgames

1111111111


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## fancier

shadow games said:


> I like the ones that are down from B. Roxy the best. IMO.


You do?
Thanks. 
I help Jessie cull that litter. 
Then I sent Michael Reddy who was stationed P.R. and was re-stationed and gave SCK Reddy and made him a champion and was weeks away from coming back to me when he died.
Lace was cold as the day is long and I talked Lab Rat from putting her down.
After she was bred to Dempsey, she came alive!
Ch. Shorty Pearl was nice female that friend of mine owned in IN.
I liked the two off American Rose and Don Q.
The male was a brute.
After I got done knowing about Roxy, Nixon, Granny, Pearl and the rest, I set it up for an old friend of mine I met years ago through Pat and got him Roxy and the rest is history as they say.

I knew Godfather who had Ch. Princess & Harold who had Ch. Indian and I know Plowboy who had Ch. Willie. Some of my favorites from those yards of dogs was Don Q. Turtle Girl, Tiger Girl, Shorty aka Fargette, Annie, Killer Joy, I really liked Turtlehead I had her here for awhile, there wasn't much I didn't know seayears.
But I still have to say percentage wise, Ch. Red Dog's litter...


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