# Frozen semen, yeah I said it!



## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Any breeders on here make use of this process? How long does the semen last? So a "breeding" between a female, and say a fantastic stud dog, could take place even though the stud has been deceased for 10 years? Just curious, because I'm quite sure that there is some unbelieveable semen available, I just don't see this mentioned much. Wild stuff for sure


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

I know several bully breeders that use AI. Frozen semen has a success rate of 89-91%, chilled has a success rate of 90-91%, and natural breeding has a success rate of 81%. The best method to do the AI is trans-cervical because it places the semen right by the eggs; however, there is only one doctor I know of that has mastered this technique in the states, Dr. George Govette. He learned the technique in Sweden.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Semen if it is stored in nitrogen can be stored indefinitely. Frozen semen, when inseminating to a bitch in utero has the highest success rate for comparable number of pups in live breeding litters due to being not only placed directly in the uterus but the spermazoa are much more active when first unthawed correctly... albeit they have a much shorter life span. Chilled semen which is generally used in the vaginal method of insemination, lives for a longer period of time, but the mobility rate is drastically lower as well as the possibilities of "user errors" are much more common. The bitches vagina internally has a backwards C that serves as kind of a "back splash" (for a lack of a better term) possibly preventing any semen reaching the neck of the uterus itself.

I did probably 4 months of research on this before indigo was inseminated almost two years ago.

Here's a decent little article:
Fresh Chilled vs Frozen Semen


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Semen if it is stored in nitrogen can be stored indefinitely. Frozen semen, when inseminating to a bitch in utero has the highest success rate for comparable number of pups in live breeding litters due to being not only placed directly in the uterus but the spermazoa are much more active when first unthawed correctly... albeit they have a much shorter life span. Chilled semen which is generally used in the vaginal method of insemination, lives for a longer period of time, but the mobility rate is drastically lower as well as the possibilities of "user errors" are much more common. The bitches vagina internally has a backwards C that serves as kind of a "back splash" (for a lack of a better term) possibly preventing any semen reaching the neck of the uterus itself.
> 
> I did probably 4 months of research on this before indigo was inseminated almost two years ago.
> 
> ...


Good info, Shana! Thanks for sharing the article!


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

It's good to see both of you, Lauren and Shana, with such good info at the ready. I know my breeder has lots of semen available...get your mind out of the gutter LOL!!! I just think that this is the ultimate way to "preserve" the past, but don't hear about it that much. Do you know if some of the other dogmen made use of this practice with some of the greats, or was this before their time, relatively speaking? Also, what would my success rate be if I, being a stud myself, started freezing my stuff? Sorry, couldn't resist You know me LOL!!! (Hit me up mama!)


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> Also, what would my success rate be if I, being a stud myself, started freezing my stuff? Sorry, couldn't resist You know me LOL!!! (Hit me up mama!)


LOL well its all about if you have a market out there if noone is gonna buy then its kinda a waste lol, should post your fee you might get some interest lmao


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

angelbaby said:


> LOL well its all about if you have a market out there if noone is gonna buy then its kinda a waste lol, should post your fee you might get some interest lmao


Well, no matter what I decide, it should be a good time Now....where did I put all that Tupperware?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

lol note to self dont eat leftovers at your house LMAO


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> It's good to see both of you, Lauren and Shana, with such good info at the ready. I know my breeder has lots of semen available...get your mind out of the gutter LOL!!! I just think that this is the ultimate way to "preserve" the past, but don't hear about it that much. Do you know if some of the other dogmen made use of this practice with some of the greats, or was this before their time, relatively speaking? Also, what would my success rate be if I, being a stud myself, started freezing my stuff? Sorry, couldn't resist You know me LOL!!! (Hit me up mama!)










love you, Christian! I know they froze Chinaman and Frisco sperm; however there is controversy surrounding Frisco from what I have read. I read somewhere that Frisco sired more kids dead than he did alive and TG wouldn't submit to DNA tests thus any dogs with Frisco in the ped can't be registered with the ADBA. Maybe Sadie or someone can help me out on that while I find the article where I read that.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

never thought of it,it was always straight from the custard cannon.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

william williamson said:


> never thought of it,it was always straight from the custard cannon.










@ Custard Cannon!


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> @ Custard Cannon!


mayonaise maker,mayonaise mastadon,spooge spout,


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> love you, Christian! I know they froze Chinaman and Frisco sperm; however there is controversy surrounding Frisco from what I have read. I read somewhere that Frisco sired more kids dead than he did alive and TG wouldn't submit to DNA tests thus any dogs with Frisco in the ped can't be registered with the ADBA. Maybe Sadie or someone can help me out on that while I find the article where I read that.


There is alot of controversy surrounding Frisco.... The ADBA had questions about the amount of pups being reported as sired by Frisco... I don't remember the final count.... so they asked TG to DNA Frisco so they could be sure the pups were off of Frisco and TG refused....

So there's this big gray cloud around Frisco and how many pups were actually off of him and how many weren't... thats why you see alot of people wanting the Chinaman blood without Frisco in it... like the stuff off of Frank White for example.

So if you have a pup off Frisco's frozen semen it can't be registered with the ADBA ... Now with paper hanging and what not it's not entirely impossible for people to get around it also TG has his own registry so I am sure they could be registered through his registry with no problems.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Hey can we please keep this thread clean? Public forum everyone..


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Sadie said:


> There is alot of controversy surrounding Frisco.... The ADBA had questions about the amount of pups being reported as sired by Frisco... I don't remember the final count.... so they asked TG to DNA Frisco so they could be sure the pups were off of Frisco and TG refused....
> 
> So there's this big gray cloud around Frisco and how many pups were actually off of him and how many weren't... thats why you see alot of people wanting the Chinaman blood without Frisco in it... like the stuff off of Frank White for example.
> 
> So if you have a pup off Frisco's frozen semen it can't be registered with the ADBA ... Now with paper hanging and what not it's entirely impossible for people to get around it also TG has his own registry.


Thanks girl!


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

Saint Francis said:


> It's good to see both of you, Lauren and Shana, with such good info at the ready. I know my breeder has lots of semen available...get your mind out of the gutter LOL!!! I just think that this is the ultimate way to "preserve" the past, but don't hear about it that much. Do you know if some of the other dogmen made use of this practice with some of the greats, or was this before their time, relatively speaking? Also, what would my success rate be if I, being a stud myself, started freezing my stuff? Sorry, couldn't resist You know me LOL!!! (Hit me up mama!)


Garner has. 
There are some greats that have been stored . Most shipped overseas because "people in the US cant/wont pay for it". Many in the US think it costs to much. I on the other hand, just do not have the space and money (otherwise I would use an artificial insemination). I plan on using the storage to keep some of my studs "alive" in the future. Its no big deal nowadays. My main drawback has been my dog thinking "uh, where did this litter come from".:roll:

Some breeders have DA sires' that will attack a female. Because of this, all they do is artificial.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

NorCalTim said:


> Garner has.
> There are some greats that have been stored . Most shipped overseas because "people in the US cant/wont pay for it". Many in the US think it costs to much. I on the other hand, just do not have the space and money (otherwise I would use an artificial insemination). I plan on using the storage to keep some of my studs "alive" in the future. Its no big deal nowadays. My main drawback has been my dog thinking "uh, where did this litter come from".:roll:
> 
> Some breeders have DA sires' that will attack a female. Because of this, all they do is artificial.


What space do you need for the storage? There are companies like these who do it all for you (this is where the sire to my puppies is stored):

Once Frozen - Home

Here's their price list:
Once Frozen - Pricing

It is a little pricey, but i would think the security knowing that your prized stud dog will continue to leave his legacy within your breeding program for eternity.


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## DMTWI (Nov 2, 2010)

Living in the snow belt, frozen semen is a way of life!


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> love you, Christian! I know they froze Chinaman and Frisco sperm; however there is controversy surrounding Frisco from what I have read. I read somewhere that Frisco sired more kids dead than he did alive and TG wouldn't submit to DNA tests thus any dogs with Frisco in the ped can't be registered with the ADBA. Maybe Sadie or someone can help me out on that while I find the article where I read that.


according to TG his issues with the adba had nothing to do with the amount of pups being sired by frisco at all and this story was just something fabricated by the adba after he chose not to do business with them any longer. TG claims that the adba was giving out information on his breedings to government agencies and causing him possible legal problems. he says that he chose not to get the dna test done on frisco because of the witch hunt on people breeding the APBT dog these days. basically, if frisco was tested then they could take dogs who have been "rescued" from people matching them illegally and trace them back to frisco and TG himself. and yes, TG has his own registry, the sporting dog registry.

there are web pages online where he gives his side of the story as well so anyone interested can look it up. personally, i dont know what really happened but if one side of the argument is going to be posted i figured its only fair to hear the other side. generally, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle of the two.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL .. I know he's not doing the frisco semen breedings anymore ... I actually know someone who got a pup off frisco's frozen semen and was not able to register that dog with the adba. That would suck royally especially for the amount of dough he paid for that pup. If what TG is saying is true it makes sense . Registries are fueled by one thing $$$, as long as you pay the fee you can register anything. TG is high profile and with all the former dog men taken down most people have closed there yards and inner circles. I am actually surprised TG is still doing business with the open public.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> LOL .. I know he's not doing the frisco semen breedings anymore ... I actually know someone who got a pup off frisco's frozen semen and was not able to register that dog with the adba. That would suck royally especially for the amount of dough he paid for that pup. If what TG is saying is true it makes sense . Registries are fueled by one thing $$$, as long as you pay the fee you can register anything. TG is high profile and with all the former dog men taken down most people have closed there yards and inner circles. I am actually surprised TG is still doing business with the open public.


yeah with this issues its easy to believe both sides. in his case i can understand being cautious. like you said, many big named breeders have been targeted lately and im kinda surprised TG is still doing what he does. as far as frisco pups being unregisterable with the adba, i wouldnt sweat it. his dogs can be registered with SDR and the SDR pedigrees look better hung on your wall than the ones from the adba. and what is a pedigree besides a pretty piece of paper anyway!


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## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

t.g has gr ch spike semen stored for over 18 yrs...his son Santos is his replacement.
http://tom-garner-kennels.com/stud-dogs-current/Santos.html
as far as t.g. being high profile, he's a very smart man and is not a dog fighter
in any sense of the word, he is a professional breeder with a college degree and
other business ventures,... he also owns the best line of performance nutes bar none Canine Nutrition International (CNI) and a local gym,... his love for the breed should be revered and not scrutinized,..he's the last of the Mohican's and an asset to MANY world class bulldog kennels all over the world. he is "the man" if you can see past your own nose. not many breeders have his track record...he's got the most ROM dogs under his belt than any other camp x2. that should sum it all up.


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