# Biggest bust in history.



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

A few things are troubling like so called dog fighting equipment which we all know is just ways to exercise your dogs. I have no issues with a big yard or dogs being chained but no food and water with rusted Barrels as a make do shelter for some dogs isn't a well cared for yard. What really troubles me the mention in the video at the end of the story that they are taking the DNA of the dogs in order to trace the bloodlines in hopes of targeting other owners. That's a giant leap IMO. No one has control over what happens to a dog with another handler. You can assume but that's all it is. Should it be able to be a catalyst to investigations? Or is if profiling in a sense?

Sad story none the less hope these pups are given a chance at a happier life than living in their own waste. http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/26/justice/alabama-dog-fight-ring/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Don't believe everything you hear in the news about these "massive dog fighting operations"..

Just sayin'...


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Exactly! That's what I am saying who am I to know anything about what happens on another yard. I need more proof than scars equipment and some chains. It does sound like neglect but I'm not there to judge that either.

Or you mean specifically in regards to the DNA aspect of the claim? You don't buy them doing that?

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

ames said:


> Exactly! That's what I am saying who am I to know anything about what happens on another yard. I need more proof than scars equipment and some chains. It does sound like neglect but I'm not there to judge that either.
> 
> Or you mean specifically in regards to the DNA aspect of the claim? You don't buy them doing that?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


:rofl: Come on Ames, you know i don't buy anything.. :stick:

Many of those dogs are in good shape, some had some dead weight,, chain weight,, others maybe a little thin.. Didn't see one lookin "starving", "dehydrated'.. Houses looked fine so did chain spots..

The whole DNA thing.. You know its bullshit, i know its bullshit and anyone with a trace of smarts will know its bullshit..

Idiots... :stick:


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

I have a question of logic here... What good would a starved and tortured dog be in a fight?

The other question is how much better off are those dogs now that they are in a tiny concrete cage being cared for by people who often see pit bulls as vermin? I don't know how trusting I am of a system who confiscates dog and then euthanizes them because they say they cannot be retrained for good, because a dog who has killed another animal cannot ever be trusted again.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Pknattsr (Jul 15, 2013)

I believe that more than likely the hsus will put the dogs down and feed the general public some crap about they were fighting dogs and can't be trusted and so on and so on and also I'm pretty sure they will see a healthy dog that's conditioned and label them as starving

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

ames said:


> A few things are troubling like so called dog fighting equipment which we all know is just ways to exercise your dogs. I have no issues with a big yard or dogs being chained but no food and water with rusted Barrels as a make do shelter for some dogs isn't a well cared for yard. What really troubles me the mention in the video at the end of the story that they are taking the DNA of the dogs in order to trace the bloodlines in hopes of targeting other owners. That's a giant leap IMO. No one has control over what happens to a dog with another handler. You can assume but that's all it is. Should it be able to be a catalyst to investigations? Or is if profiling in a sense?
> 
> Sad story none the less hope these pups are given a chance at a happier life than living in their own waste. Feds: Busted dogfighters earn spot in 'lowest places in hell' - CNN.com
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


 Yeah? Remember what I said about the HSUS and their hyperbolic bull****? Well take a look at that video , did you SEE a " rusted barrel" in the video? Did you SEE and emaciated dog in that video?Did you SEE a dog "living in it's own waste"? Did you SEE a dog without water? Seems like those five gallon tubs etc. in the HSUS video just might contain water.

And the HSUS would have put it on video if it had been there. Tell ya what Ames , in more than 4 decades with these dogs I have YET to EVER see someone utilise a metal barrel as a doghouse.

And plastic barrels , well if that's " improvised" then why are there a variety of kits available in the ads in *mainline* dog magazines for a variety of prices to convert plastic barrels into doghouses? Along with of course thousands of hounds and sled dogs in a wide variety of locales that are kept on the EXACT same sort of chainrigs with the EXACT same doghouses.

What do you want a dog kept in , a leaky crap manufactured plastic doghouse like the common RuffHouse or junk knockoff " Dogloos" or a barrel that doesn't leak , is well nigh unchewable etc?

And lets address the DNA thing , anyone here REALLY think that there is a SINGLE one of these dogs be it APBT or AmStaff , ADBA , AADR , Bonafide , UKC or AKC or other registry that *CAN'T* be " traced to a fighting dog"?

If ANYONE believes that one I'm quite willing to hand down a bit of a history lesson for them , because all you have to do is go BACK far enough genetically speaking.

Again the video was the very same hyperbolic ***bulls*** *** that the HSUS runs on the public EVERY time they do this , in an effort to make themselves look good and pander for public attention and more donations.

A half million dollars on a match? SINCE WHEN?????????? That's a crock of hyperbole too , and closely related to the demonisation of *anybody* who would rather keep cash than play with plastic and predatory banks and credit card companies. And THAT extends further than just dogs , try flying with 5 grand in cash sometime and see what sort of questions you have to answer if you get secondaried by TSA , and don't attempt to argue that one with me , since I *know* that one by direct personal experience coming through Reid-HartzsField outa Atlanta.

I've been fielding phone calls on this crap for the last 24 hours , not a SINGLE banged up dog , not a SINGLE individual caught in the box , nothing whatsoever except " Oh MY doggies on CHAINs , Oh My Doggies with BaRRels for doghouses".....................NOTHING.

And concern for the dogs my half breed ass , some of the best blood in the country will once again be dead within days , because " Oh MY they're " too dangerous to adopt out"........ it's the Floyd bust all over again on a bigger scale.

And if they had a SINGLE incident of those crap claims of their's being valid then they'd have SHILLED it in the videos.

And then well meaning folks buy right into it and further exacerbate the outright LIES perpetuated by the HSUS.

In closing , a lot of folks best look out themselves , folks with ONE dog but who even possess a parting stick that will be magically transformed into " damned dirty dogfighters" merely upon the " evidence" of that parting stick.


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

katey said:


> i have a question of logic here... What good would a starved and tortured dog be in a fight?
> 
> The other question is how much better off are those dogs now that they are in a tiny concrete cage being cared for by people who often see pit bulls as vermin? I don't know how trusting i am of a system who confiscates dog and then euthanizes them because they say they cannot be retrained for good, because a dog who has killed another animal cannot ever be trusted again.
> 
> sent from petguide.com free app


 eggrfreakzackly!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Pknattsr said:


> I believe that more than likely the hsus will put the dogs down and feed the general public some crap about they were fighting dogs and can't be trusted and so on and so on and also I'm pretty sure they will see a healthy dog that's conditioned and label them as starving
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 Likely? It's a damn goldplated 100 to 1 CERTAINTY.....


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

I would LOVE to see an exposé about how the HSUS houses their "rescued" dogs. Please tell me how the dogs' lives changed one bit! Perhaps they should be invited to experience their own "hospitality" before they can judge who looks after a dog better.

How about a search of a sled dog champs place? I am almost certain that they will find "fighting paraphernalia" like a treadmill and chain rigs and outdoor dog houses.

Where do I cancel my subscription to their BS?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Another thing , y'all with " rescue dogs" and dogs with no papers etc. best take a right close look at all all this. 

Waddaya gonna do when those " DNA profiles: trace back to a dog like Cockney Charlie Lloyd's " Pilot"? I mean after all he was a GGASSPPPP a 
" fighting dog"........... 

And don't *ANYBODY* here run their mouths about the AST branch of the breed , unless of course you're ready for a history lesson as regards Feely , Doyle , Al Brown , Colby , the X-Pert , Tacoma , Our Gang , Ruffian dogs and others.


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Katey said:


> I would LOVE to see an exposé about how the HSUS houses their "rescued" dogs.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 They DON'T " house rescue dogs" , they kill 'em , the HSUS doesn't operate any shelters of their own , not a damned one. They lay it off on the locals , they're a bulls*** artist lobbying and political body advancing a PETA whack agenda wherever they can do so with a gullible public.


----------



## Benderdog (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm all for not believing everything mainstream media throws at us. Only a fool would swallow it. But, the believing only the opposite of that which is presented is equally stupid. I could predict the response on this forum to this event. That's not to say it's wrong but to present opposing polar opposite views on this story just smack of reactionary foolishness. With little facts known so far people here leap to defend people that may well be scum. Sure, be sceptical but why just make up facts about a situation that hasn't been made fully public? And finding drugs there, what excuse is there for that? I guess you could argue that's false right? Don't be silly, some people breed, fight and neglect these dogs. Not every 'dogman' today has any goals that could be remotely admirable.


----------



## Dynasty (Jan 26, 2013)

After watching that video and seeing those dogs I must say that they looked pretty healthy to me no scars bowls in front of them I'm assuming water in it decent shelter . This is just ignorant people not educating them self , not knowing thats how a fit conditioned bulldog looks like . I think that the tie outt looked good also , might be hardware from Stillwaterkennels lol

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## KFRUGE (Jan 30, 2013)

I love how every every dog they show didnt have a single scratch on it, I'm no expert but if it was such a huge "dog fighting bust" wouldn't they have some type of battle scars. Also found it funny that the dogs were so quite & calm when they were filming, I've been on a yard with 25 dogs and they would raise some hell when a strange person would go to them......couldn't even here your self think with 25 dogs barking their heads off much less the 100 they claimed to have taken.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

OldDog said:


> They DON'T " house rescue dogs" , they kill 'em , the HSUS doesn't operate any shelters of their own , not a damned one. They lay it off on the locals , they're a bulls*** artist lobbying and political body advancing a PETA whack agenda wherever they can do so with a gullible public.


That's exactly my point though Olddog. I dot understand how the general public can rally behind a cause that is massacring animals. If people were breeding Labradors by the thousand with dogs kept in cages and never exposed to the outdoor, I can bet my last dime that they would find homes to rehabilitate those dogs.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Benderdog said:


> I'm all for not believing everything mainstream media throws at us. Only a fool would swallow it. But, the believing only the opposite of that which is presented is equally stupid. I could predict the response on this forum to this event. That's not to say it's wrong but to present opposing polar opposite views on this story just smack of reactionary foolishness. With little facts known so far people here leap to defend people that may well be scum. Sure, be sceptical but why just make up facts about a situation that hasn't been made fully public? And finding drugs there, what excuse is there for that? I guess you could argue that's false right? Don't be silly, some people breed, fight and neglect these dogs. Not every 'dogman' today has any goals that could be remotely admirable.


I am not defending the dog owners who are being accused of drug possession. It is sad that thugs and gangbangers think dog fighting and gambling and drugs are trendy right now. But that said, those dogs looked healthy, they looked friendly, and the environment shown in that yard looked ok to me. I have seen abused and starving animals at too many SPCA soap boxes to be able to confuse the 2.

By all means investigate the drug charges and take them as far as they can. But to try and lump the dogs into that charge when those dogs don't appear to have been fought is a bit of a stretch for me.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

if you think the dogs is all they were after think again.....
feds? ha....the cause of this was plain and simple...dope,way to dam much $$$$$$$ and way too much EGO.....on and on too much mouth..........
i for one cant believe dogs was the primary motivation.....
but not 1 dog in the vid looked bad........more will surface on this one i bet cha.....


----------



## APASA (Dec 27, 2010)

Well, it doesn't really matter if the boys were really fighting dogs or not. The thing is.. They got plenty of things on the property that could or has been at one time, related to, or a part of dogfighting.. So, someone says they've been fighting their dogs.. Then they get investigated for dogfighting.. unless the can PROVE they are INNOCENT.. they are guilty as charged. Welcome to Modern Day America Folks! 

With their set up and equipment, they can't prove they weren't taking part in dogfighting.. so.. they must be! And either way.. even if they were able to get enough shit together to prove their innocence.. Dog's will already be PTS, the media will have done it's damage, and NO ONE will apologize for the mistake as they quitely slip the "wrongly convicted" out the back door.


----------



## ali-eve (Apr 24, 2013)

Katey said:


> I have a question of logic here... What good would a starved and tortured dog be in a fight?
> 
> The other question is how much better off are those dogs now that they are in a tiny concrete cage being cared for by people who often see pit bulls as vermin? I don't know how trusting I am of a system who confiscates dog and then euthanizes them because they say they cannot be retrained for good, because a dog who has killed another animal cannot ever be trusted again.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Totally agree and by the pictures I didn't see any dog that appears to be sick...



Pknattsr said:


> I believe that more than likely the hsus will put the dogs down and feed the general public some crap about they were fighting dogs and can't be trusted and so on and so on and also I'm pretty sure they will see a healthy dog that's conditioned and label them as starving
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yep. Dogs that could have a good home, be great dogs that will die because they don't even understand the dog itself...


----------



## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I totally understand if they found video proof of the dogs being used for fighting, or even better, caught them in the act of fighting dogs. That is reason to go raid a yard,not because someone has their dogs on chains and living outside in dog houses. I don't think i saw a dog that was completely starving and living in its filth. If they were,show us those pictures! Eh, some of those dogs actually looked perfectly happy sunbathing! 
I saw a video where a vet that exams some of them said none of them were human aggressive and none seemed abused, they just seemed like they wanted human attention,and that they were very adoptable, just not into homes with other dogs. And we all know that these dogs can be attentions whores  heck, my 8month old pup acts like she never gets pet when she meets new people! Lol! 

Anyway, if there was video proof that this person was fighting his dogs, then I hope they show it! Prove to me you didn't just go and take someone's dogs. I do think anyone who rolls their dogs illegally ought to have them taken from them! Anyone who does is a fool and shows they don't truly care about their dogs' future. 

Alright end of rant....


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Agree with everyone except its not the HSUS is the ASPCA who has the dogs. Not the same organization. Post MV all dogs need to be temperament tested by 3 behaviorist before they are placed, rehabbed or killed. It's not common practice just To kill the dogs after treating them as evidence.

OldDog I noticed the video didn't have what the article had for conditions as well. I would also need to know what proof they have "tools" and scars and chains are NOT enough to remove animals IMO. I also agree everyone who has a pit bull probably has fighting lines in it in one for or another. Seems like a wide net being cast as usual.

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Benderdog said:


> I'm all for not believing everything mainstream media throws at us. Only a fool would swallow it. But, the believing only the opposite of that which is presented is equally stupid. I could predict the response on this forum to this event. That's not to say it's wrong but to present opposing polar opposite views on this story just smack of reactionary foolishness. With little facts known so far people here leap to defend people that may well be scum. Sure, be sceptical but why just make up facts about a situation that hasn't been made fully public? And finding drugs there, what excuse is there for that? I guess you could argue that's false right? Don't be silly, some people breed, fight and neglect these dogs. Not every 'dogman' today has any goals that could be remotely admirable.


 Believing the opposite , " skeptical" etc.etc. , don't make me laugh. I *know* there bud , I *know* who got popped and I know why.

And don't even bother to hand me that " drug" angle either. Ther are a good portion of households in the entire damn nation that could have the media trumpeting " oh my GOD DRUGS"..........

Next time you accuse someone of " making up facts" , you might want to figure out who you're talking to and what they know prior to doing so.


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Ugh. They need to quit assuming crap about people without proof.


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

ames said:


> Agree with everyone except its not the HSUS is the ASPCA who has the dogs. Not the same organization. Post MV all dogs need to be temperament tested by 3 behaviorist before they are placed, rehabbed or killed. It's not common practice just To kill the dogs after treating them as evidence.
> 
> OldDog I noticed the video didn't have what the article had for conditions as well. I would also need to know what proof they have "tools" and scars and chains are NOT enough to remove animals IMO. I also agree everyone who has a pit bull probably has fighting lines in it in one for or another. Seems like a wide net being cast as usual.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


 DAMN straight it's not the HSUS that " has the dogs" , they ALWAYS put this stuff off on the locals , the HSUS ( AGAIN) houses no dogs , has no shelters , adopts out no dogs , evaluates no dogs. They're all about KILLING THE BREED OFF , and as I stated once they've killed off the "dogfighting" segment of the breed the pet and show owners will be NEXT.

And AGAIN , I'm sick unto death of the hyperbolic " oh MY " drugszzzz" bulls*** , get back to me when they manage to put the speed cooks away , when the Hillbilly Heroin legally prescribed and illegally sold that has ruined many towns i.e. OXYCONTIN is shut down , when they get the damn CIA out of the trade in BLOW coming up from South America ( google " Gary Webb" on that one and find out what can happen) , when we aren't fighting a war in the Afghan theater that allowed the Poppy fields back and thus the Heroin industry to rise to a higher level than at any time in history.

And the first person to run their mouths in this thread as regards folks growing pot better be ready for chapter and verse on the why and wherefore of it being illegal in this country , along with Hortipharm , G.W. Pharmaceuticals and who got the licenses from the latter for the production of Sativex , Marinol and their underground political moves to get the high CBD/CBN strains legalised for medical production.

Where is the HSUS as regards puppy mills in the midwest pumping out thousands of dogs over a years time? Some of those thousands resulting from facilities carrying twenty breeds at once that actually ARE " living in their own waste"............

And straight at " BenderDog" , watch your mouth and your accusations with *me* , I've watched this crap develop for more than four decades and I'm rather sick of apologists for the HSUS and it's tactics , and I have had an armed confrontation with them at one point when I blew them out of the water in court after being called as an expert witness when they attempted to railroad someone , and they got escorted off my property by the local law and local A.C. after coming in ARMED with NO warrant , NO prior notice to the locals and NO probable cause.

And don't even start the typical Aussie crap about firearms and firearms laws , I'll school you on that one pretty quicklike.

The HSUS is SCUM , just as surely as a couple of hood rats selling rock on a corner and banging two dogs heads together to try to make 'em go are SCUM.

And you''l notice that Laura Maloney , the SCUM that engineered the death of Floyd's dogs got promoted recently to a high level six figure in salary position within the HSUS ranks , the same SCUM that fled the country to avoid the civil suit.

Where did she go? Off to Oz , a country with almost a duplicate of Great Britain's DDA........

Yeah , some folks will set back aqnd say " Ohhhh it's just those damn , dirty dogfighters"..........what those individuals don't realise is that.....they are NEXT................


----------



## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Don't forget that working sled dogs are housed on short tie outs with small houses in the *gasp* snow...I don't see their yard being raided....


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Or this puppy mill that is up to HSUS requirements is freaking laughable. I would rather a dog be chained over this kind of set up ANY day.

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

ames said:


> View attachment 30745
> Or this puppy mill that is up to HSUS requirements is freaking laughable. I would rather a dog be chained over this kind of set up ANY day.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


:goodpost:


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

That snow looks cold... And those houses look small... But they look about as happy as that dog in the video that was chilling in the sun.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I always bring up the working sled dogs too!!! HSUS and PETA and ASPCA are NOT LAW ENFORCMENT!!! They are just a private organization that has spent time and money to get us to believe (by the masses) that they are. They are a scam artists with political agenda .

YES!!! those are two GREAT examples ya'll ^^^^^^^ :clap: 


Seriously!??!??! I think we need to ban HSUS and PETA at least put some federal controls on em, not rally behind em in order to enforce subliminal control. 

You want dog fighting crime to go away?? Decriminalize the 1976 act, put sanctions and licenses out there, much like Stratton said in his book. Set it up like boxing; that would better the breed and the actions of matching. That would black wall all the thugs, and criminals who don't know any better anyway. It harbors criminals because its "criminal", but really its a crimeless offense. Dogfighting is a myth in the fashion media, hsus, peta, and so on would have you believe. IN many cases the losing dog who gets picked up gets as much praise as the winner. What comes natural to animals is always argued.. LOL let a few real bulldogs go and they'll show you what comes natural as they start to wear each other down. :hammer: 


This is all BULLSHIT!! WE have more things going on in our country to worry about., outside too~ We should take all these organizations and corporations that put us (the people) in this spot with all their lobbyists, and treat them as we do traitors to the nation. Syria, egypt, economy, heroine, meth, punch bowl (mixed pharmicutical pills) food is poisoning, medicine is poison, education system, health care system... need I go on... ?? all those things affect US ALL more than any dogfighting ring. They are hurting us and our system how????? Exactly.. they aren't.. The law enforcment just needs more money, which come with busts they get the boosts... ASPCA, HSUS, PETA they need full on scale investigations done inside their operations. I've killed more dogs for the HUMANE SOCIETY than anyone DOGFIGHTER has done in their life time. 26 dogs a day for 3 months of summer; and 8 a day fall to spring.. Hmm Mmmm. You do the math. Just cause I dont work there doesnt mean they stopped. In many humane shelters they THROW THE DOGS IN A DUMPSTER!!! THATS NOT HUMANE OR SANITARY~ Do you realize that if you killed your dogs and threw em in a dumpster you'd get a hard case of animal cruelty pushed by ASPCA, HSUS, PETA ??? WHO does it by the masses! Some places have incinerators some use local crematories. ALOT just throw em in the trash!

Which is what we should do with this type of news and city, county, state, federal officials who help perpetuate fear motivated sympathy for their motives and their agendas. OH! and hey! lets send them millions and millions of dollars instead of sending it to an organization that wants to wipe out our national debt.. :hammer: 

People,,,, WAKE UP! China owns 4 major American Banks!! Mortgages left and right are being sold to China, CHina who has sent hackers into or National Deffense system, who has aided North Korea and then condemned them on U.S. camera, China who has sent poisoned goods and foods because they didnt get inspected properly (really since when is that excuse okay? Oh hey we half assed it no worries) ?? :hammer: ... CHINA! People who is communist and look at our nation turn. ... While we focus on the muslims who are dead set in a holy war against the western world, CHINA is doing the most damage, inside and out. PEOPLE!! your gonna wake up one day and say "we're communists?? when did that happen??" ... because you wont put your capitalist to the side to be what we all should be in this country: Constitutionalist


----------



## APASA (Dec 27, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> :
> 
> This is all BULLSHIT!! WE have more things going on in our country to worry about., outside too~ We should take all these organizations and corporations that put us (the people) in this spot with all their lobbyists, and treat them as we do traitors to the nation. Syria, egypt, economy, heroine, meth, punch bowl (mixed pharmicutical pills) food is poisoning, medicine is poison, education system, health care system... need I go on... ?? all those things affect US ALL more than any dogfighting ring. They are hurting us and our system how????? Exactly.. they aren't.. The law enforcment just needs more money, which come with busts they get the boosts... ASPCA, HSUS, PETA they need full on scale investigations done inside their operations. I've killed more dogs for the HUMANE SOCIETY than anyone DOGFIGHTER has done in their life time. 26 dogs a day for 3 months of summer; and 8 a day fall to spring.. Hmm Mmmm. You do the math. Just cause I dont work there doesnt mean they stopped. In many humane shelters they THROW THE DOGS IN A DUMPSTER!!! THATS NOT HUMANE OR SANITARY~ Do you realize that if you killed your dogs and threw em in a dumpster you'd get a hard case of animal cruelty pushed by ASPCA, HSUS, PETA ??? WHO does it by the masses! Some places have incinerators some use local crematories. ALOT just throw em in the trash!
> 
> ...


----------



## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

Ok, we going to run the gambit on this one....olddog,if you know who got popped and why they got popped thats good enuf for me...
But i have to ask a question that should be asked based on you knew who.......where they real dog men? Or just big $$$ gamblers?

My opinion is still the same...if you're betting alot and talking alot,the wrong one is going to get a hold of it...then the ball starts rollin....$$$$$$ has ruined every sport in this country....
Every sport!!!!!!....sport being the key word.......if you let $$$ in sooner or later the wrong crowd will follow.....you put so much $$$$ on the dog you let it go to far rather than pic the dog up now you're out your $$$$ and your dog......that is and will always be a sore spot with me....

If these good fokes got popped solely for the dogs....i will bet you if was not because they bet a 50# sack of southern states dog food....somebody got pissed caused they lost $$$$ or they owe sombody $$$$ or they themselves(not the dog men but a hanger on) got popped for a dime bag and sought the ez way out......

Either way i hate it for the dogs.... But as i read what i type it sounds like i'm blaming, but i'm not....it is solely my opinion which i should like most others that "do not know'' should've kept to themselves.......

But i relate it to street racing....if i go threw a little town on a wednesday nite, pulling a 40 goose neck trailer with nhra and ihra decals all over it and they aint a dragstrip within 200 miles you can bet your booty the law in that town knows xzactly whats fixin to happen somewhere...point is if you gonna do it,and it's illegal....best to not advertise it...

Sad fact is somebody screwed up and them dogs r gonna pay for it.....if them law dogs have no video or the like i still do not see how they can charge them with dog figthing?????

But i still say thers more to this than what we know..not arguing with you olddog,cause I don't know enuff to argue with you.....
Olddog once again if you know then it's good enuff for me....but the fact remains the same.........somebody screwed up!!!!!!! Bottom line!!!


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

I'll point out a few things............as per sled dogs , the doghouses are small for the same reason houses and bush cabins in Alaska and other locales in the Far North are small. 

How much space do you want to have to heat? The last winter I was north of Lake Louise and west of Paxson I went through 7 cords for a 400 square foot cabin , now y'all extrapolate how much you'd go through to heat a 2,000 square foot house. 

And I'll tell y'all something else , I've spent a small fortune over the years traveling to see dogs , look at dogs , talks dogs and meet dog folks , take a look at Japan where all this is *legal* , look at the medical care for dogs freely available , look at the fast lane folks with either Tosas or APBTs who have a vet *standing by* , now contrast that with this country where folks who have never been involved with competition in that arena and never will be are afraid to take their dog to a vet after a yard accident because of the fear of what the vet may say or what they may be accused of , and the dogs suffer needlessly because of it. 

Look at the Balkans , where once again the major players will have a vet standing there at the side of the box. 

And y'all might give some thought to what both FH and Rudy stated , this country has bigger fish to fry than what folks are doing with dogs , the real criminals and real corruption are at the top , in politics , entrenched in our financial system , inhabiting our large corporations. 

And don't get me started on the " Drug War" , which has been LOST along with being co-opted by people who are promoting that same war as a method of eliminating the competition , Pablo Escobar wasn't snuffed for being a major importer and conduit for Bolivian , Peruvian and Colombian blow , he was snuffed because he was the *wrong* person making the money. 

As for the " evil weed" , don't hand me any guff , I lived in Trinity county and Humboldt county for too long , along with other NorCal locations , taking JUST the Emerald Triangle as an example , the fishing industry is essentially dead , the logging industry IS dead , two things keep the area alive , the tourist industry and the green trade and if you eliminated the latter three quarters of the Triangle would be on welfare in one season. 

Do the math on the possible tax revenue , and the pertinent figures come STRAIGHT from the Humboldt and Mendocino county sheriffs offices themselves and are based on ONLY seizure amounts.......7 BILLION in potential tax revenue , they claim to get ten percent of what's grown ( inflated figure but we'll use it here).......that's potentially 70 billion in tax revenue , another 5 to 10 billion saved in enforcement costs if legalisation came.. 

And that's in comparison to an existing total agricultural industry revenue within the state of 90 to 150 billion dependent upon who you listen to. 

And that's without taking into account the potential of industrial Hemp strains and their uses for cloth , oil ,paper and a hundred other end uses. 

The socalled " drug war" works about as well as Prohibition ( The Volstead Act) did , just on a larger economic scale. And then we have the inherent hypocrisy associated with TWo industries with large scale lobbying power inside the Beltway...........Alcohol and Tobacco , the former killing a 100k plus people a year , the latter killing 425 thousand people a year , not to mention the pharmaceutical companies killing folks left and right with LEGAL drugs. 

Yet some gullible folks will buy into HSUS rhetoric that just LOVES to scream DRUGS...........and..................GUNS over one of these busts , they CLAIM to be " about the dogs" but will exploit sensationalism for it's own sake time and time and time again.......... 

And then come out with yet another tearjerker ad with a "Hollywod" star , or a sad eyed girl singer to attempt to jerk at folks heartstrings to turn 'em upside down and shake 'em out for every dollar they can extract in donations. 

And meanwhile , Pacelle , Maloney etc are paid HOW MUCH?????? Look it up for yourself , don't take my word for it , google ,bing , whatever " HSUS Executive Salaries"............. 


Wake THE HELL UP PEOPLE!!!!! Because if you don't then it's not just going to be the " dirty damned dogfighters" dogs that are going to be GONE. 


It will be YOURS too............


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

welder said:


> Ok, we going to run the gambit on this
> 
> My opinion is still the same...if you're betting alot and talking alot,the wrong one is going to get a hold of it...then the ball starts rollin....$$$$$$ has ruined every sport in this country....
> Every sport!!!!!!....sport being the key word.......if you let $$$ in sooner or later the wrong crowd will follow.....you put so much $$$$ on the dog you let it go to far rather than pic the dog up now you're out your $$$$ and your dog......that is and will always be a sore spot with me....
> ...


 Continue with the analogy , if you pull into that town with a closed car trailer with NO stickers and choose off the fastest guy in town the word gets around pretty quick , and if you're then going to unload and run in front of 300 bozos you don't know , in a place you don't know real well...........then best expect what might happen.

Co incidental to this and apropos of your rather profound statement as to the state of the dogs , some of the best dogmen alive are NOT "household names" and don't care to be. And those folks have had some DAMN good dogs over the years.

As per the " rolling over syndrome" , can't deny that , but what do we expect since of course the biggest promoter of the competition under discussion and the biggest public attractant of such people has been..............wait for it......................

The HSUS and their use of the media , and the Media itself. We have gone from the days of the media portrayal of our dogs via " Petey" ( Little Rascals)
the Buster Brown Shoes Dog ("Tige") and myriad other examples to the days of Thug Rappers and *********** Rockers both using dogs in their videos , along with nightly ( sometimes it seems) news footage yet another bad event
from cops merely shooting a " Pit Bull" to look a Drug bust and LOOOK they've got Pit Bulls " too.

Which just makes it yet more attractive to wannabes and criminals , the difference being the type of criminal , no denying ( for example) that Tudor was bootlegger , and Carver.....well Carver was a whole lot of things.

What I'm getting at is the sociodynamic change as regards how the dogs are perceived.............From " America's Dog".................." TUFF dog of wannabe Bad asses".............

Which of course brings fools and idiots by the droves , in ALL the avenues of these dogs , show ,weightpull , dogfighting , catch dogs............and then of course the idiot who just wants to swagger down the street with " look at my Bad Ass Dog" attitudinal problems.

Your points are all givens Welder , and good ones , only slightly argueable and that on some levels would be a wash or grey area.

However examine the syndrome I cited , to the point where every second person on the street can " identify" a " Pit Bull" or at least thinks they can and will tell you all about 'em , a microcosmic amount of which will actually be factual.

In the early '70s you could walk one of these dogs down the street and few knew what it was , now? not so much.

Examine to positive examples public perceptionwise , Weela from the SoCal floods , an APBT with the Border Patrol and Customs that was drug and explosives dog etc.etc.

So , overall outlook is bleak , nothing is going to work against overwhelming tide of sensationalism and it's whisper inter the ear of the wrong sort of folks " you gotta get one of them dogs."

In thirty years the best examples of these dogs will be in other countries and pretty much only those willing to take the risk of owning a criminalised breed will be really underground about it.


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Exactly what APASA said. Regardless of if they were or werent they cant prove they werent per the stuff they had around.. which is sad because I am sure any of us on here today have those same things in our homes. 

All I saw were some chain setups that could use improving and some doghouses need replaced, thats about it.. nice clean property and I like how some had the nice concrete water bowls. Sucks that all those dogs will probably be put down.. 

They all looked like friendly, well cared for dogs.. even the pups had proper chain sizes etc and you dont see that often in these "busts". 

I also found it ridiculous that the news anchor said they had meds used to train dogs to fight? Wtf kind of shit is that? 

As for them DNA testing the dogs etc to see where they came from and track breeders etc, good luck with that. Sounds like some bs to me. More rights and liberties being stripped away every day by these people "saving" us from the "cruelty" 

Just like they "save" us from growing our own food.. disheartening seeing another yard of dogs being put down, their goal to eradicate this breed by any means necessary is very obvious.


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

If we all aint figured out that the hsus and peta isnt bullshit by now idk what to say. I had animal control come to my house over using a drag sled with 75lbs on it.... the commercials on tv, the shows on animal planet, the facebook groups, the lobby against breeds, the fur mamas, the know it alls online, the little ppl dog thieves, and breeding show dogs has done more damage to this breed than any dogmen who sat a dog in a pit.


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

^ Amen. 

I always love people crying about.. why do you make them drag weight? Dog fighters do that.. why do you use chain spots? Dog fighters do that.. why do you exercise them? Dog fighters do that.. why do you use a treadmill? Dog fighters do that.. why the wide collars? Dog fighters use those.. why the break stick? Only dog fighters use those.. 

It makes me fucking crazy, no shit "dog fighters" use silver ware and tennis shoes too, gonna bitch about those as well? 

The television has been one of the biggest things to start the downfall of this breed, people can spew idiocy to millions of mushy minds that dont think for themselves who soak it up like its the best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

olddog,post # 37 was dead on...to long to quote....what does apropos mean?
I do believe we agree.....purty much it's the same fact keep your circle tite.

but that being said,once again what do you do about the ppl that are really interested in the truth and the facts? that's the 1% that's could make a difference in the years to come! AGREED? 

And McCoy,I said this country...and look at soccer beckham went with the $$$$ and yea he's rich but has no respect.....

I gotta say this...olddog,u r the man....well said...and nothing left to say!!!


----------



## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

The television has been one of the biggest things to start the downfall of this breed, people can spew idiocy to millions of mushy minds.

bull stuff..tv ruined stuff all the way back to NAM!!!!all those mamas seeing what ther babies were doin over ther......combat on tv! the public had not a clue so the media give them there clue and the public soaked it up like oildry...same as the above...


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Well I am not saying tv was ever really a good thing.. lol what good has ever come from it? Just a country and world wide way to dumb you down and make you think you know whats going on.

I havnt watched tv, like actual regular tv in over 8 months might be closer to a year now.. I cannot stand it and the few times I tried to turn it on to see "whats going on in the world" I was bombarded with useless shows on what rich people were wearing and numerous things begging for money.. nothing useful or informative about current events, nothing.. so I shut it off and havnt tried since lol 

The term "idiot box" has never been truer


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Now , since I've had my sociopolitical rant for the day , back to what McCoy along with a note to Ames , damned if you weren't correct , there was a dog with a modified metal barrel as a doghouse , which is the act of a fool. 

But...................examine the other claims.......... 

" Emaciated Dogs"...................anyone see one of those in the photos or videos? 

" No Access to food and water"...............seems to me like there were water containers and food dishes on the majority of chain spaces in the photos? 


" Scars and wounds"......................... hhhmmmm they usually take graphic photos to shock the viewer with..Where are they? 

And yup the yard could do with an upgrade or two yes , the dogs themselves however looked in good shape and fine fettle , so the " oh my skin and bones scratching m in the ( over dramatised) "heat" , any place in the south NOT 90 degrees this time of year? One?


----------



## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

here's my next question.....where do yall think they're going to get them "DNA" records from? and I would love to have them come and TRY to stick a swab in my dog.....ats the biggest bunch a whowee ever..and the other thing is..
what can we do about the whole sit.are we gonna set back on our heels or is it ant thing we can do...

heck fire 1/2 the time we cant agree on what dog food to feed......I mean i'm purty sure ther has been some dog fokes that were never in the game but were charged with having the tools of the trade.


----------



## okcdogman (Mar 13, 2013)

*got damn shame*

i think these motherfs just took this yard cuz it was so many dogs on it. i think the days of huge ass yards is over but then again you can just have ten or twelve and they would still f with you.:curse::curse::curse:


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Was wondering that too welder. They gonna start to randomly pick up poop to test that might land outside the yard! What's the rule on collecting poop samples? Someone stalks trash at adba shows looking for waste? So many scenarios where it can be obtained I would think.

Although with more and more people DNA testing I wouldn't be surprised is Mars Wisdom Panel doesn't get a warrant one day to release their records.

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

okcdogman said:


> i think these motherfs just took this yard cuz it was so many dogs on it. i think the days of huge ass yards is over but then again you can just have ten or twelve and they would still f with you.:curse::curse::curse:


Maybe but what about the other 10 yards in 3 other states. If this one has 110 dogs that's still 260 so average 26 dogs a yard. I hope they all had valid licenses for that amount of dogs if not that's just another reason to raid them, but your yard will be on record and lots of people are afraid of going "on the record"

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Rumor has it people were in the organization undercover and that's how evidence was obtained. Interested in seeing all their evidence and not circumstantial that has been offered so far.

If these people were not ever betting on or fighting dogs what would people undercover have been able to gain as evidence? Money can be explained as drug money and being a drug dealer doesn't mean you're a dog fighter either. I would think if it was drugs they would have gotten a longer sentence since drugs sentences are typically harsher than dog fighting. I hope these dogs are cared for so if they beat the charges and are found not guilty they can get their dogs back.

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

ames said:


> rumor has it people were in the organization undercover and that's how evidence was obtained. Interested in seeing all their evidence and not circumstantial that has been offered so far.
> 
> If these people were not ever betting on or fighting dogs what would people undercover have been able to gain as evidence? Money can be explained as drug money and being a drug dealer doesn't mean you're a dog fighter either. I would think if it was drugs they would have gotten a longer sentence since drugs sentences are typically harsher than dog fighting. I hope these dogs are cared for so if they beat the charges and are found not guilty they can get their dogs back.
> 
> sent from petguide.com app


at'll never happen,i would like to see more evidence also....


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

I highly doubt those dogs will ever be given back even if people are found not guilty. They will either be put down before they can get given back or speutered so they can continue to eradicate the dogs in this country

Did they do that when they took Patricks dogs? Killed em all


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

That's some Yankee shit!!!! or Californian Haha JK.. Its damn sure tenderfoot. Tell ya why.. Its dumb!! testing back against what, to find what the panel of vets found they go back to the bulldogs from England? Every bulldog owner needs to know law as well as medicine. People need to move to the state that best suits there idea of liberty. Thus the USofA. Yes large yards are over.. in some states.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> That's some Yankee shit!!!! or Californian Haha JK.. Its damn sure tenderfoot. Tell ya why.. Its dumb!! testing back against what, to find what the panel of vets found they go back to the bulldogs from England? Every bulldog owner needs to know law as well as medicine. People need to move to the state that best suits there idea of liberty. Thus the USofA. Yes large yards are over.. in some states.


Yes there are still a few large yards, I know one and know of a few more.

Not many and only about 3 surviving states left


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

ames said:


> Maybe but what about the other 10 yards in 3 other states. If this one has 110 dogs that's still 260 so average 26 dogs a yard. I hope they all had valid licenses for that amount of dogs if not that's just another reason to raid them, but your yard will be on record and lots of people are afraid of going "on the record"
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


26 dogs on a yard isnt really that many, imo. I think in most places you have to have a kennel license for a certain number of dogs, a friend out here has one and he has 10-15 dogs. If you dont get one I dont know how you would get away with it, they would probably threaten to take your animals or fine the brakes off you until you did.. most peoples yards are "on record" anyway, its about keeping your nose clean, circle close and making sure your yard is immaculate all the time so they dont have shit to call about. Also making sure you know your rights as a property owner and the laws.



Firehazard said:


> That's some Yankee shit!!!! or Californian Haha JK.. Its damn sure tenderfoot. Tell ya why.. Its dumb!! testing back against what, to find what the panel of vets found they go back to the bulldogs from England? Every bulldog owner needs to know law as well as medicine. People need to move to the state that best suits there idea of liberty. Thus the USofA. Yes large yards are over.. in some states.


Exactly what I was thinking.. these dogs are so closely related unless they are coming up with some damn brand new awesome dog dna technology they arent going to get very far at all.. because I highly doubt any person into these dogs is gonna let them come swab their animals so they could possibly prosecute later lol I am calling bullshit on that claim and they are just trying to freak people out.

The very large yards are over in most states..


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

ames said:


> . I hope these dogs are cared for so if they beat the charges and are found not guilty they can get their dogs back.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


 And therein lies the real rub , if you or I cared for dogs in the manner most shelters do then we;d be in jail for animal cruelty.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

OldDog said:


> And therein lies the real rub , if you or I cared for dogs in the manner most shelters do then we;d be in jail for animal cruelty.


Thats a FACT!!!!!


----------



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

ames said:


> Was wondering that too welder. They gonna start to randomly pick up poop to test that might land outside the yard! What's the rule on collecting poop samples? Someone stalks trash at adba shows looking for waste? So many scenarios where it can be obtained I would think.
> 
> Although with more and more people DNA testing I wouldn't be surprised is Mars Wisdom Panel doesn't get a warrant one day to release their records.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Funny you guys should mention this. 2009 ADBA nationals in Iowa. Man was caught thought to be stumbling around drunk in the parking lot. Turns out he was speaking into a cup that was wired feeding licens plate numbers. YOu cant be to careful but got keep your self clean as possible.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

if you have a yard bury your dog  if you don't walk to a place near by you can pull some dirt back and walk your dog every day. Throw it all in the small hole and cover it with dirt.. move on make another. Youve seen pictures of my dogs on chains here and there and my kennels back when I had em set up on the mtn, aint nuttin changed.. You ever see any poop in any of them pics? More now cause I gotta tractor, you'd think my dogs don't  at all.. LOL ... EXCEPT right after the winter thaw... eeEEWEWEWWWWW ..again glad for the tractor. I'll be prepped this winter


----------



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Yeah he was confronted and made to leave being told they didn't allow drink while show was going on. It is funny the link they will go to but this was in the midst of a big bust that spanned over few states in this region.


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

mccoypitbulls said:


> criminals locking up criminals, crooks robbing crooks!


I think that is the biggest joke around!

How did the HSUS and PETA get so much credibility?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Empathy and the false ploy of taking 1 in 100,000 chances and making it hysteria as if its every other house. That plays on that empathy ... in a nutshell.. 

Its not rocket science, its long been known it takes a crook to catch a crook ...


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Those god damn "arms of an angel" commercials....


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Those god damn "arms of an angel" commercials....












He even forced out tears...


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

^^^^ I know that rock on top of that (far too small) crate is for making the dog chew to strengthen its jaws.... its also uses to kill the dogs if they lose..... the blanket is for smothering loser dogs and to wrap dogs in to hide wounds....


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Just Tap Pits said:


> ^^^^ I know that rock on top of that (far too small) crate is for making the dog chew to strengthen its jaws.... its also uses to kill the dogs if they lose..... the blanket is for smothering loser dogs and to wrap dogs in to hide wounds....


No the rock is to make him wear down his teeth so he can be a bait dog. I keep him locked in the kennel and cover it with the blanket to make him sad and never give him attention so he is mean and when I do let him out he is ready to fight due to starvation so he can teach the fighter dog better but not hurt him..

*is that a good fur mommy post? lol


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

pookie! said:


> He even forced out tears...


That dog looks so sad... Wow, are those crocodile tears to go with his crocodile strength bite? And he is SO emancipated and looks so vicious... Please keep him locked up and never take him near children in case they fall in love with him and start asking for pits as family dogs... That would put a definite end to the HSUS bs

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Lol he was down right pitiful. This is an old picture and I think I had just fed him and he cries like that when he eats? Guess the food I give him is just that good.. 

Oooh a rare emancipated blue pit.. cool!!!


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

LOL!

They are years of joy

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Hahahhaha! He's just playing on your empathy man... I could never use those crates past puppy stages.. My dogs have always demolished those wire kind. Had a buddy who kept two of my dogs and managed it well with those but he had to fabricate some stuff and strenghten it up after each escape, after about a dozen or so he got em all soldered up with panels and brackets.. insisted on keeping em to prove me wrong that they would work.. LOL they looked like the heavy duty 400 dollar metal crates by the time he was done. LOL .. I've got acouple dogs that will run a crate like a hamster in a ball. The 28lbs dog I rehabilitated was like this, on her return.


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> Hahahhaha! He's just playing on your empathy man... I could never use those crates past puppy stages.. My dogs have always demolished those wire kind. Had a buddy who kept two of my dogs and managed it well with those but he had to fabricate some stuff and strenghten it up after each escape, after about a dozen or so he got em all soldered up with panels and brackets.. insisted on keeping em to prove me wrong that they would work.. LOL they looked like the heavy duty 400 dollar metal crates by the time he was done. LOL .. I've got acouple dogs that will run a crate like a hamster in a ball. The 28lbs dog I rehabilitated was like this, on her return.


Yea he is blue.. lol but it worked for him, he never questioned it.. made the mistake of putting Turbo in it and yeah... he collapsed it and we had an issue lol. Needless to say its destroyed and gone and we have one of the proper kennels in the house now.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Turbo looks like good ol bulldog for sure.. both dogs look to be in great shape!!


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Thank you very much Firehazard  I am sure the BF would love to hear compliments on his dog, he is good ole dog thats for sure and hopefully he makes us some more good ole dogs! 

They both stay in pretty good shape fairly easy, so long as I dont make them fat


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

pookie! said:


> They both stay in pretty good shape fairly easy, so long as I dont make them fat


Some dog owners would tell you that a fat dog is a happy dog. lol

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Bah, those owners are idiots.. unless of course its winter and they are outside, then a fat dog is a happy dog lol 

But here in PHX neither have any reason to be fat


----------



## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Yeah, complete idiots! Especially when they poke their nose in your business because you choose to keep your dog at a healthy weight and in condition!


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

I get that every time I share pictures of my mutt. The skinny comments are insane, and oh Lord dont let them find out I feed my dog raw meat and chicken bones! Lol


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Totally agree with shelter conditions. 2 30 minute walks a day, maybe some one on one time play or fetch depending on how many volunteers we have and how many dogs and the rest of the days in clean kennels does not make for a happy stable pup. I know some might be worse and others might be better but our shelter only takes 16 dogs max. We have not had more than 12 since I have been there and we get 2 hours to walk and play with them a shift, so twice a day they get minimum 1 hour play/socialization a day. I understand 26 might not be a big yard but I can't imagine with 100 pups how a half hour a day would be given to 100 pups.

KM those with big yards are pups given one on one time hand walks daily? How many people would it take to run the yards? Curious about what a typical situation MIGHT be if if is much different than the shelter life? Honestly curious to what people feel is good vs bad. I know about proper setups but what is the expectation you would have to say shelter could be worse vs a huge yard?



Firehazard said:


> That's some Yankee shit!!!! or Californian Haha JK.. Its damn sure tenderfoot. Tell ya why.. Its dumb!! testing back against what, to find what the panel of vets found they go back to the bulldogs from England? Every bulldog owner needs to know law as well as medicine. People need to move to the state that best suits there idea of liberty. Thus the USofA. Yes large yards are over.. in some states.


Why everyone gotta talk shit about Yankees?!? MOST of y'all wouldn't be here without them Yankees  Massachusetts Invented new America. I got a shirt to prove it hahaha I agree though you gotta live where you fit. I went to OSU and could not do Columbus. I'm a Boston girl, can't be landlocked I went bonkers. Love live the bean.

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

pookie! said:


> I get that every time I share pictures of my mutt. The skinny comments are insane, and oh Lord dont let them find out I feed my dog raw meat and chicken bones! Lol


Raw meet!! OMW!! You're going to kill him with salmonella... The HSUS should be called... Facepalm at those people.

I have actually been considering switching to a raw diet. But have to do a google-a-thon before I do that. lol

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

More info, looks like Video, audio and Aerial footage was acquired over multiple gatherings. Of course, take that for what it worth and after the trial we will know for sure, but the way its looking it was indeed a valid bust and they got a few snitches, as the other thread was recently talking about. Wonder if social media played more into it that we know at this point. You don't say you have fights on tape if you do not have fight on tape. And that kind of visual proof is what matters to me more than anything else the media has said about this case.

"Carver said investigators have information from informants and cooperating witnesses involving seven dog fights in east Alabama between 2011 and 2013, and they have audio, video or aerial surveillance from some fights."

Dog-Fighting Defendants Plead Not Guilty in Ala - ABC News


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

ames said:


> More info, looks like Video, audio and Aerial footage was acquired over multiple gatherings. Of course, take that for what it worth and after the trial we will know for sure, but the way its looking it was indeed a valid bust and they got a few snitches, as the other thread was recently talking about. Wonder if social media played more into it that we know at this point. You don't say you have fights on tape if you do not have fight on tape. And that kind of visual proof is what matters to me more than anything else the media has said about this case.
> 
> "Carver said investigators have information from informants and cooperating witnesses involving seven dog fights in east Alabama between 2011 and 2013, and they have audio, video or aerial surveillance from some fights."
> 
> Dog-Fighting Defendants Plead Not Guilty in Ala - ABC News


More than you know.. but at the same time someone with the title "official" had a role to play somewhere for a chain and that kind of money. Even in the vick case there were military and police personell on vick payroll handling dogs and all.. all that gets swept away quick and you either save it; or dig through a world of  trying to find it. .. . they being i.e. LEO probably saved every bit,, til they made the puzzle .. the DNA bit is a scare tacket dead in the water unless of course thats the POLICE STATE method of BSL  because then as the canine DNA stats I found and laid out in a post for GPB here while back,, Boston Terrier to Bull Mastiff everything and anything in between... PIT BULL ... along with our beloved bulldogs of course as DNA wise they will find they are all the same dog BULLDOG.. so they'll either drop it because thats the WHOLE USA and WHOLE LOT OF BULLDOGS or they'll GASTAPO our asses and we'll wake up knowing we're owned powned and propper fkd.. with no where to go because there is no longer freedom or liberty. Just control the cogs to keep the machine spinning..


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

or people who don't fight their dogs they don't have an issue and they only focus on those who DO fight their dogs. A girl can hope can't she? lol Some people have faith in God or a religion or a bible. I have faith that my government, for the most part, is not out to screw everyone every which way. I honestly believe in my country, I LOVE my country and I have been to MANY others to be able to actual say that and I love a lot of the people in my country. I believe in the rights the US was founded on. I understand why laws are needed, in the general sense of the word. I don't think EVERYONE is horrible I have BLIND faith they aren't gonna show up on MY front door with tanks and arrest me UNLESS I give them a reason to do so, which I don't foresee happening. So kinda like those who believe in a God they have never seen or a religion that tells them eating pork is bad we all have things we need to trust in order for our brains to grasp and compute and keep on living. 

Seriously though, I hear what you are writing. Who knows if the isolated parts of the DNA they recently discovered can even give the the results they think they have. Who knows what corrupt official was on the take during these games or how long they were paid to look the other way. I just hope the people who were caught, and if they are guilty, take down them all. 5 years isn't that long if they get convicted, I'm guessing they would rather keep the players hidden than look over their shoulder the rest of their life...


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

like stratton said.. legalized sanctioned licensed with judges, officials, rules, checks, blood checks, health checks etc..etc... Its televised in asian countries as we can see like a boxing match so instead of legalizing bettering the dogs care and thus the dogs using some of those winnings taxed to pay of the national debt.. man!!! even the lottery should be paying that off.. people throw money away left and right the fat cats do it well and often.. Crime aspect of it would go away... ... so do they want to stop it and prevent it or do they just wanna encourage crime and prevent it as it happens, although usually they watch it happen time in again and even have some hands on in the process. If your undercover fighting a dog.. your a dog fighter .. as much as the guy across from you that your gonna bust 9month later. If your just watching and recording thats different. Its the crooked stuff that takes justice right out of it.

I love the Constitution of the United States of America and this country it is founded on... Liberty.... not control and manipulation


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Look at all the issues with boxing and mma. Unless its changed mma events cant be help in ny. Its against the law. If the radicals that are within peta and hsus and aspca had it their way no1 would own pets, hunt, eat meat, or use any part of any animal. Could u imagine the shit hole we'd be in if that happened. Im not going to share my views about the actual subject at hand but if they're investigating them enough to bust them for dog fighting there better not be 1 pedo, meth lab, rapist, or murder running rampant in those 3 states....


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Look at all the issues with boxing and mma. Unless its changed mma events cant be help in ny. Its against the law. If the radicals that are within peta and hsus and aspca had it their way no1 would own pets, hunt, eat meat, or use any part of any animal. Could u imagine the shit hole we'd be in if that happened. * Im not going to share my views about the actual subject at hand but if they're investigating them enough to bust them for dog fighting there better not be 1 pedo, meth lab, rapist, or murder running rampant in those 3 states....*


EXACTLY!!!!!! :goodpost:


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Thank you sir I like to apply common sens when applicable. If its was back yard "aye g my 100lbs blue oit will shred thst 30lbs mutt u got" shit bust ass and make them fight in a similar situation. "Bully beat down" like if you will. But there are far more important crimes to prosecute. Its the same thing with marijuana. Yeah put an 18 year old kid in prison around murderers and rapist cuz he had a pound of a plant with him. It isnt logical from any stand point. Ok the dogs dont drive themselves to a the fight but sure as the skys blue u let that same pit dog run around a dog park hes snagging a dog up. Sound like he wants to fight to me.... now not picking up a beat dog is cruel but from everything ive read and heard if u dnt pick that dog up ur picking ur teeth up hefore you leave the event. 

Anyway sorry for my rant.


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Katey said:


> Raw meet!! OMW!! You're going to kill him with salmonella... The HSUS should be called... Facepalm at those people.
> 
> I have actually been considering switching to a raw diet. But have to do a google-a-thon before I do that. lol
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 Shoot if you need links I gots you, good raw feeding sites with correct information so you dont have to weed through Google bs lol


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Not similar to sports at all in my eyes because those humans who partake have a brain and a working mouth to complain are if they are not up to partaking and make the choice to go fight. Dogs do not have the choice to go, they go where and too please their owners. To assume once already there they have the choice to go against their genetics and jump the [] is not the same thing IMO. I sure as hell don't want it legalized and controlled. People can place bets and gamble on many things if they got that addiction leave pups out of it.

I'm just glad any criminal that displays harm to those without a voice (animals, elderly and children) are addressed I don't need to first remove all of one type of offender before getting another one. Take the wins when you can is how I feel. Again still do not know for a fact of innocence or guilt in these cases just speaking in general. (Although if video evidence is true not much can be said)

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Ames I fucking love u but u seriously cant be comparing a dog fighter to a rapist or murderer. Or even a meth maker. I love ur fur mamaness and im the first to commend you for your bsl campaigns but a dog fighter is closer to a kid with pot than a murder, chomo, or rapist...


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Ames I fucking love u but u seriously cant be comparing a dog fighter to a rapist or murderer. Or even a meth maker. I love ur fur mamaness and im the first to commend you for your bsl campaigns but a dog fighter is closer to a kid with pot than a murder, chomo, or rapist...


haha its all good man I am allowed to feel the way I feel just as you are, which is one reason why this country ROCKS! no worries man, glad you wont hold it agaist me  And I have NEVER denied my fur mama-ness! EVER lol Shoot I called out of work yesterday Cause Mel was sick. lol


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

As different as our opinions may be I can value yours. I can see where a criminal is a criminal and needs to be punished. I always being an outlaw think theres levels of criminality lol. Im not pro or con dog fighting I just dont believe in butting in to everyone elses business. If u choose to show, fight, hunt, train, or just sit on tue couch with YOUR dog I shouldnt be allowed to tell u if its right or wrong. Im not mad at ya and ur crazy opinion though ames


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Just Tap Pits said:


> As different as our opinions may be I can value yours. I can see where a criminal is a criminal and needs to be punished. I always being an outlaw think theres levels of criminality lol. Im not pro or con dog fighting I just dont believe in butting in to everyone elses business. If u choose to show, fight, hunt, train, or just sit on tue couch with YOUR dog I shouldnt be allowed to tell u if its right or wrong. Im not mad at ya and ur crazy opinion though ames


haha right on man! and I see where you are coming from, i totally do! And although I hate it I am speaking out of both sides of my mouth cause weed should not be illegal and is NOT a drug.  lol Although there are MANY who would disagree with that as well lol


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

ames said:


> haha right on man! and I see where you are coming from, i totally do! And although I hate it I am speaking out of both sides of my mouth cause weed should not be illegal and is NOT a drug.  lol Although there are MANY who would disagree with that as well lol


 Just wait , once they figure out how to control the taxation levels and the govt will be insured their cut , Calif , Colo and Mich have all jumped on that bandwagon of revenue and potential revenue , Monsanto , Scheering-Plough , Novartis , Bayer Pharma............they've all taken licenses out from G.W. Pharma and HortiPharm. Then from a different angle the tobacco companies , it's not a huge secret that R.J.Reynolds has quietly bought up a lot of land in Humboldt and Mendocino counties.

The potential medical uses are likely to drive the first wave of legalisation , industrial hemp for a variety of uses , the tobacco co's and alcohol co's smelling a whole new lucrative market.

Yeah when those pockets can be filled tax revenues and corporate profits it will all be legal , everybody will get a cut , just like the damn mafia.


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

OldDog said:


> Just wait , once they figure out how to control the taxation levels and the govt will be insured their cut , Calif , Colo and Mich have all jumped on that bandwagon of revenue and potential revenue , Monsanto , Scheering-Plough , Novartis , Bayer Pharma............they've all taken licenses out from G.W. Pharma and HortiPharm. Then from a different angle the tobacco companies , it's not a huge secret that R.J.Reynolds has quietly bought up a lot of land in Humboldt and Mendocino counties.
> 
> The potential medical uses are likely to drive the first wave of legalisation , industrial hemp for a variety of uses , the tobacco co's and alcohol co's smelling a whole new lucrative market.
> 
> Yeah when those pockets can be filled tax revenues and corporate profits it will all be legal , everybody will get a cut , just like the damn mafia.


well Monsanto better keep their filthy paws off those seeds!! Interesting about RJ Reynolds (that's the Marlboro people right?), I figure the cotton, paper, liquor and tobacco people bribed so many back in the day its the only reason it IS illegal. I read a study it will be cheaper with taxes and regulations than buying it on the street. Some thing like $2 an ounce to produce compared to $400 sold on the street.  So they could mark it up and STILL make a killing take all the extra in taxes and STILL be cheaper than it is now. (well at least in THEORY!) but we all know how that works sounds great on paper. lol California should NOT have as much debt as they do, I don't know WTF they doing out there! They should be raking it in!


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

ames said:


> well Monsanto better keep their filthy paws off those seeds!! Interesting about RJ Reynolds (that's the Marlboro people right?), I figure the cotton, paper, liquor and tobacco people bribed so many back in the day its the only reason it IS illegal. I read a study it will be cheaper with taxes and regulations than buying it on the street. Some thing like $2 an ounce to produce compared to $400 sold on the street. So they could mark it up and STILL make a killing take all the extra in taxes and STILL be cheaper than it is now. (well at least in THEORY!) but we all know how that works sounds great on paper. lol California should NOT have as much debt as they do, I don't know WTF they doing out there! They should be raking it in!


 Oh no worries , you as a member of the J.Q.P. will have the last laugh since it can't be accomplished on the sort of scale they seem to think in that area , too many variables , including the weather and the variety of microclimates , they'll lose money for a few years and then move indoors to massive warehouses running hundreds of hydroponics tables and hundreds of cutting edge technology lights.

Someone tried to stick a 600k squ foot facility out by the airport in Chico a couple years or so back but the city council turned down the license. That won't last long.

Reynolds is Camels , Kools , Winston , Pall mall and some others , Marlboro is Phillip Morris if I recall correctly.

Sometime I'll relate to story of how the whole trade came about , right from a certain bust in Santa Cruz , a snitch who ran to Amsterdam but is a relative genius bio-geneticist and botanist.That's where the seed trade started and it all grew from there.

From 400 or so strains , most either indigenous to specific areas or based on same in the 70s to 14,000 plus strains , straight examples of all three basic plants , i.e. sativa , indica and ruderalis and hybrids thereof every which way but loose. High cbd/cbn low thc strains have been developed for the pure medical market. Other very high THC strains for the purely recreational market.


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

ames said:


> I figure the cotton, paper, liquor and tobacco people bribed so many back in the day its the only reason it IS illegal. I read a study it will be cheaper with taxes and regulations than buying it on the street. !


 I'll get back to the two above , especially the former , which means it's again time to start with hanging the moldering corpse of William Randolph Hearst up and assaulting it with barbs , arrows and other assorted destructive instruments. Along with others of such famous misdeeds.


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Ames I fucking love u but u seriously cant be comparing a dog fighter to a rapist or murderer. Or even a meth maker. I love ur fur mamaness and im the first to commend you for your bsl campaigns but a dog fighter is closer to a kid with pot than a murder, chomo, or rapist...


:clap: amen.


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Prostitution and Pot will always be hotly debated, because of it is legalized the people making a ton of money now, will no longer be in complete control over it. But that said keeping them illegal is working about as well as prohibition.

I have yet to come across a person dying from smoking pot, and in SA it grows like a weed, and is readily available for next to nothing. But alcohol on the other had, I have lost good friends to, and smoking has taken family members of mine. So personally I'm on the legalization train.

Dog fighting though is a difficult one though because of death and damage of dog. I don't know that legalizing it would put and end to that, or if working it on points and rounds like boxing would work either. The problem I have is that the organizations that are fighting to end dog fighting are saying they're doing it for the dogs, but as soon as they bust a dog fighting ring, they shout the loudest for those same dogs to be euthanized. That seems contradictory to me.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

it is.. you either believe truth.. or their truth..  if everyone is under watch they're gonna pick they're dog up especially if you fine em for negligence if they don't and their dog dies. There wouldnt be any dead game anymore but top performers. Yes like boxing it would make the athletes better and the fat cats richer.. win win.. 

I agree... all the horrible crime going on in the country and this is the focus?? Its control and manipulation at its finest....


----------



## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> There wouldnt be any dead game anymore but top performers.


 There are and have been *very* few actual living " dead game" dogs. The term means *by definition*............D E A D. Said term being tossed around way too much.

In hunting terriers the words " dead game" mean ( to a hard core terrier man) that the dog in question took it's death in battle with the quarry , generally while still in grip as it died.

And of course it's all manipulation , coercion , skulduggery within the legal system ( don't get me start on plea bargains.) and massively profitable corporations hiding behind a 501c3 for tax purposes.

Look how much Pacelle makes , now look at the average person trying to run a rescue out of their own pocket , those folks are eating beans and rice , maybe ramen if the feed bill goes up.


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Well at least they are making sure they get their money. Not that I'm surprised. Glad Obama is going back to his campaign promise of letting the states battle it out, after going against it a few times first term

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/30/banks-marijuana_n_3842526.html

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> it is.. you either believe truth.. or their truth..  if everyone is under watch they're gonna pick they're dog up especially if you fine em for negligence if they don't and their dog dies. There wouldnt be any dead game anymore but top performers. Yes like boxing it would make the athletes better and the fat cats richer.. win win..
> 
> I agree... all the horrible crime going on in the country and this is the focus?? Its control and manipulation at its finest....


It's the focus because we let it be the focus..

Yes the media and government tries to sway our opinions, laws and rights.. however we as a country have let them have it.

Most people care more about an animals well being than a child's.

Don't believe me? Look at how long news like this "bust" lasts and is discussed, then look at how long it is discussed when a 16 year old girl gets raped.

Its sick..


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

KMdogs said:


> It's the focus because we let it be the focus..
> 
> Yes the media and government tries to sway our opinions, laws and rights.. however we as a country have let them have it.
> 
> ...


Animal rights verses human rights is messed up internationally. It's because it's us easier to fight for something that will only live for maybe a decade, than to invest emotion into a life. A person has reason and logic (or is supposed to) and they should be able to hell themselves or their parents and guardians should help them. And they'll be fine when they grow up because they can fen for themselves. But animals are helpless, and how can they fend for themselves, we're supposed to be their guardians.

It is this logic that has the world in a spin.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Like I said the other day when a dog being euthanized in a vets office was referred to as "murder", soon the animals will have more rights than the people. 

I was also in a FB group about the "pit bull" that viciously attacked that little girl not to long ago, and you know they had the gall to blame the child and say she deserve to get bitten and that they were using that dogs bite to get money. This girl was nearly killed by an unstable dog and they want to attack, send horrible messages and hate mail to her hospital room, and say she deserved it! It just gave me shivers at how fucked up this world is becoming. 
A child cant get a little donation to help pay her hospital bills, but the dog who viciously attacked her can get thousands donated in a few days. Its insane.


----------



## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

pookie! said:


> Like I said the other day when a dog being euthanized in a vets office was referred to as "murder", soon the animals will have more rights than the people.
> 
> I was also in a FB group about the "pit bull" that viciously attacked that little girl not to long ago, and you know they had the gall to blame the child and say she deserve to get bitten and that they were using that dogs bite to get money. This girl was nearly killed by an unstable dog and they want to attack, send horrible messages and hate mail to her hospital room, and say she deserved it! It just gave me shivers at how fucked up this world is becoming.
> A child cant get a little donation to help pay her hospital bills, but the dog who viciously attacked her can get thousands donated in a few days. Its insane.


That's REALLY messed up! I believe that if an animal is a genuine danger then it should be handled as such. I also think that if a child needs to be helped they should be helped.

The polar opposite views that people have about these dogs is exhausting. It would be nice for byb's to stop breeding man eating crazy dogs, and for society to stop thinking that all pits are psychopaths. Perhaps the world just needs some excellent examples of how great these dogs are and a new more appropriate villain to pick on instead of pits. Is that too much to hope for?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Yea Pook that was total BS, and I can't believe people who call themselves "pit bull advocates" would blame the child instead of making people aware of the fact that these dogs are not suppose to show human aggression ever! I got called a bunch of crap for saying he's a bad representation of any breed and needs to be PTS. The worst part of it was the actual owner of the dog wanted to put him down and these "activists" convinced her that they could take him and "fix" his behavior and adopt him out. Then they turn around and make all these claims about how she neglected and abused the dog. I seriously hope they don't adopt that POS to a family with kids cause it'll happen again. You can't fix bad wiring in a dog some just have a screw looses and can't be fixed.


----------



## shewerewolf (Oct 27, 2010)

kg420 said:


> Yea Pook that was total BS, and I can't believe people who call themselves "pit bull advocates" would blame the child instead of making people aware of the fact that these dogs are not suppose to show human aggression ever! I got called a bunch of crap for saying he's a bad representation of any breed and needs to be PTS. The worst part of it was the actual owner of the dog wanted to put him down and these "activists" convinced her that they could take him and "fix" his behavior and adopt him out. Then they turn around and make all these claims about how she neglected and abused the dog. I seriously hope they don't adopt that POS to a family with kids cause it'll happen again. You can't fix bad wiring in a dog some just have a screw looses and can't be fixed.


There is something wrong with that dog...I have one of my incognito profiles on their "save deuce" group and they have posted videos of him up...he does not act right at all...and ppl are saying "awww how sweet the little pibble is"...ick...I really am still trying to "adopt" him so i can do the right thing and put him out of this life...to take a chunk out of a girls leg and then be defended....smh


----------

