# Chinaman question



## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Um, ok so I was reading about chinaman and read that he bit the owner. If this were true, should not he have been put down? I am basing this off the fact that APBTs are/were supposed to be able to be handled by people with absolutely no issues..... Thoughts?


----------



## Vilebeast (Feb 29, 2012)

There were some famous man biters.....granted not many, but there were some. I thought that bite was why chinaman changed ownership....could be wrong, i do not know APBT like some on here.


----------



## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah! I just don't understand why the dogs were allowed to live if they were man biters. I mean APBTs were bred to love people and have no aggression towards them whatsoever, so why we're some of these man biters allowed to live? Just because they did well in the []? Hmmmmmm....


----------



## Vilebeast (Feb 29, 2012)

Thats not something I can answer, hopefully some more will chime in.


----------



## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Don't quote me but I believe it was while breaking a fight. Though not normally excepted in that situation either. Chinaman was a very exceptional dog and im sure the exception was made for him. Correction he wasn't exceptional. He was the best scratch dog to ever live


----------



## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

i think you read where he bit to get at the other dog. thats a lot different than an actual bite. a nip or even a mouthing of a game dog is nothing like an actual full on bite.


----------



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

From my understanding unlike the Zebo dog Chinaman was more of a redirection biter, not the same as human aggressive. But as to why a man biter would be kept well in chinaman case if he were truly people aggressive well he was a great box dog and cold dismantle a dog better then any dog of his time. So the hope to keep a great dog and wash out the undesired trait to get even more exceptional dogs was worth the gamble to some. Not saying it is in the best interest (for a novice) but some who handle these dog can tell the difference in these events. some great box dogs had to be aimed at the other dog and quick release because of redirection. very different then if you just walked up to a dog and it got aggressive for no reason. Does that make sense?


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Until you've had to scruff A dog, break them up, handling your dog, you will have A hard time determining what is and isn't A "bite".
Something that doesn't get mentioned usually either is something that should be.
Back when pits weren't mainstream America's gang dog, sympathy dog, or used for plain old dog on dog fights, pits didn't run free. The weren't in the media, they weren't in every public place imaginable.
The rate with which theirs fights in people living rooms or in their suburban back yards far exceeds what took place back in the day.
When their was A yard fight, it was an honest to God equiptmentin failure. Which for many were seldom. I can't tell you how many dogmen would snap the bulldog snap to to the thick ring the collar ran through. We SELDOM IF EVER used the D ring on the actual collar and be damned what or who the collar supplier was they electric taped the hasp to double the odds of it not failing.
That said, most handlers knew how to manage and handle the dog. They knew the mental mechanics behind the aggressive nature. 
Some folks wouldn't get in the box to handle with Zebo. He was that aggressive. 
In all my yard walking past literally thousands of dogs, I've only been warned about 5.


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Search for him and we have a couple good threads about this with some good old timers.

A dog biting someone and HA are not the same thing. There are excite biters, dogs that redirect, fear biting, ect ect..

As for Chinaman I don't know enough to give you any info there just that a bite doesn't = HA. ( Not saying Chinaman was or wasn't HA)

Here are some threads for browsing. 
http://www.gopitbull.com/historic-overview/33149-ch-garners-chinaman.html
http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/7847-what-say-people-who-bring-up-ha-dogs-past.html
http://www.gopitbull.com/vip-genera...-bull-history-when-just-bite-your-tongue.html


----------



## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Chinaman, like Bullyson, was more of an excite biter...exceptable? Not touching that one LOL. It's not a perfect world. What if a poster on this forum had said that his bulldog bit someone over excitement reasons? What would the verdict be? Fine line indeed.


----------



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Saint Francis said:


> Chinaman, like Bullyson, was more of an excite biter...exceptable? Not touching that one LOL. It's not a perfect world. What if a poster on this forum had said that his bulldog bit someone over excitement reasons? What would the verdict be? Fine line indeed.


In my mind it is expectable... It has been said more than enough it takes a serrate type of person to own these dogs. So you have to know you can handle that kind of dog but it did make for some exceptional dogs.


----------



## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

william williamson said:


> Back when pits weren't mainstream America's gang dog, sympathy dog, or used for plain old dog on dog fights, pits didn't run free. The weren't in the media, they weren't in every public place imaginable.
> The rate with which theirs fights in people living rooms or in their suburban back yards far exceeds what took place back in the day.
> When their was A yard fight, it was an honest to God equiptmentin failure.
> That said, most handlers knew how to manage and handle the dog. They knew the mental mechanics behind the aggressive nature.
> ...


Well put....(My computer isn't allowing me to put the "good posting" tag, lol)
Haven't ever had a loose dog...nor has anyone I know.

Sometimes there are dogs that just turn up the heat and want to get at the other.
Chinaman was one of these....not a true manbiter. 
An old dog of mine was similar...he wouldn't try to bite, just snap, to be let go.
He didn't try it with me, but a few buddies of mine were rather nervous trying to hold him, if other dogs happened to be around.
I simply made sure he was aware of my presence and talked to him. It calmed him, although he would "cry."
But away from other animals, you wouldn't suspect a thing. Friendliest dog on earth.

Zebo was a manbiter. In fact he took a boys ear off in a yard, when his owner then sold him. 
I, personally, would have shot him dead on the spot. Regardless of how good he was. 
Any bulldog that bites a child has signed its ticket to the dirt.

As for somebody stating Chinaman to be the greatest to ever scratch....
Let's just say not every CH and GR CH was open to all challengers...
It's impossible to say who the best would have been or was...
If I had my pick, one of the greatest dogs of all time would be Corvino's Braddock. (14xW)
But that's just me....he was a master ear dog, skillful defender. 
But back then titles were not awarded though.

Right or wrong, there were a few dogs with questionable temperaments.
But they were rare. Today, with all the garbage being milled, it's surprising there aren't more.
But then again, these HA mutts would have been finished in the old days. 
And all the punks that bred and owned these dogs would be going home alone. 
At least the dogs mentioned, Chinaman, Zebo, Bullyson, etc, were worthy of being called American (pit) Bull Terriers.


----------



## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Saint Francis said:


> Chinaman, like Bullyson, was more of an excite biter...exceptable? Not touching that one LOL. It's not a perfect world. What if a poster on this forum had said that his bulldog bit someone over excitement reasons? What would the verdict be? Fine line indeed.


From what I have noticed on here, people would be okay and have excuses if their dog bit, regardless of circumstances.
However, anyone elses dog, and it would be an entirely different story, LOL. 
They'd be chanting PTS!!! PTS!!!

Btw, nice looking dog you have....


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

St. Francis, Rudy4747, UncleWillWill~ all :goodpost:s ... :clap:


----------



## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Thank you Stan and thank you Goemon for the compliment of my bulldog...he is the best manbiter money can buy....just kidding


----------



## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks guys, now it makes perfect sense and I completely understand now!


----------



## koeJ007 (Nov 1, 2011)

My boy is supposed to have some bullyson in him (but he's probably so scatterbred it wouldn't make too much difference), anyhow, so I decided to read up on him- now maybe someone could clarify, the one article I read (it was in very bad english) stated how bullysons owner hit him with a shovel over the head after Bullyson bit him. 
Not really on topic I know, but I was always just curious about it.


----------



## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

koeJ007 said:


> My boy is supposed to have some bullyson in him (but he's probably so scatterbred it wouldn't make too much difference), anyhow, so I decided to read up on him- now maybe someone could clarify, the one article I read (it was in very bad english) stated how bullysons owner hit him with a shovel over the head after Bullyson bit him.
> Not really on topic I know, but I was always just curious about it.


Bullyson was originally named "Bully." When Bobby Hall had him he attacked.
He knocked him upside the head with a shovel to escape being bit.
This happened more than once. one dayhe sat the shovel down and said, "Come here son. Bully son, come to me."
The name stuck.


----------



## koeJ007 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lol, that's almost a direct quote, if not a direct quote, of the story I read. It was a while back, so please excuse my fuzzy memory 
Does that mean I can believe all those bloodline stories? I was once told to take them with a pinch of salt.


----------



## koeJ007 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lol, that's almost a direct quote, if not a direct quote, of the story I read. It was a while back, so please excuse my fuzzy memory 
Does that mean I can believe all those bloodline stories? I was once told to take them with a pinch of salt.


----------



## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

koeJ007 said:


> Lol, that's almost a direct quote, if not a direct quote, of the story I read. It was a while back, so please excuse my fuzzy memory
> Does that mean I can believe all those bloodline stories? I was once told to take them with a pinch of salt.


Stories are much like the online pedigrees, full of error. 
The longer a story is, the more likely it is fabricated.
So yes, take it with a grain of salt, and then take off all the sugar.


----------



## koeJ007 (Nov 1, 2011)

Goemon said:


> Stories are much like the online pedigrees, full of error.
> The longer a story is, the more likely it is fabricated.
> So yes, take it with a grain of salt, and then take off all the sugar.


:roll:. Got it!


----------

