# Sticky  Pitbull's and Dog Parks



## Sadie

Did you say dog park?

More often than they should, pit bull owners wonder about the dog park issue, finding themselves explaining to others that their dog is not a "killing machine," it is not "one of those pit bulls" and there is no reason that their dog can't enjoy off leash time with unknown dogs. Some will even insist that "you only add to the misconception toward this breed when you don't allow your friendly pit bull to go to the dog park." After all, these people argue that it is all about "how we raise them" and providing socialization is the key to no problem dogs. Unfortunately, that's not true.

Dog aggression in our own dogs should not be a problem. Good management and knowledge prevent trouble. Responsible and caring pit bull owners have done their homework and know what to expect from the breed. This breed's genetic traits involve dog aggression, to varying degrees. Even the most well socialized pit bull can one day decide that other dogs are not play buddies. It happens most often when the dog reaches maturity between two and three years of age, and it can happen without apparent reason.

Here are some good articles for basic breed information:

Pit Bull Rescue Central 
http://www.realpitbull.com/fight.html

Because of the breed's background, it is unfair to expect dogs to behave the way we want them to when it comes to dog aggression and dog to dog relationships. We set our dogs up for failure when we decide to let them off leash in a public place and allow them to romp with other dogs. Dog parks are a place where people like to chit chat with each other, paying very little attention to what happens around their dogs. Posturing, body language, subtle looks and even vocalization are often misunderstood or overlooked by dog owners. Even when dogs let us know what is about to happen we might not see what is happening until it is too late. Most dog owners have no idea of what body language means, and don't know how to intervene if things go wrong. They panic, scream, yell, and hit the attacking dog; all of which often just makes things worse. A fight between two dogs can be hard enough to stop; now imagine a fight among 4 or 5 of them. In fights like these, pets and even people can be seriously injured.

Dog parks are also a place where unknown dogs are present. We don't know if they're fully vaccinated or in good health. They can be sick and our dogs can get ill as well.

We don't know if they are truly friendly dogs or if they may be aggressive. Everybody's dog is friendly, according to their owners. When the "friendly" dog decides to snap at ours, a fight starts.

Who is going to be blamed for that fight? Will it be the pit bull or the cute little fluffy dog? The answer is obvious.

Here is the story of one accident at a dog park, involving a pit bull.:

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm

Below is an article about a pit bull named Nettie that attacked a police horse, in San Francisco, in 2003. Nettie was let off leash at a public park by her irresponsible owner. The dog did nothing wrong, but she was set up for failure by the person who should have protected her. Nettie belonged to an SPCA volunteer and she was often taken to senior centers to comfort the elderly. Nettie was a good dog. This pretty pit bull female paid the price for her owner's ignorance and irresponsibility with her life. Many dogs have lost their lives the same way, due to the same kind of irresponsibility. It took her life for her owner to "get it." Like most situations of this sort, the events that ultimately resulted in Nettie's unfair death were totally preventable.

Pit bull attacks police horse in Golden Gate Park; two injured

Each time a pit bull is allowed to harm another pet all pit bull owners and their dogs suffer. One common defensive reaction of dog park lovers is "the dog is mine and it is nobody's business where I take it." This is not true. It is every pit bull owner's business as well. We are surrounded by BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) all over the Country. The news media report dog to dog attacks or dog to cat/cow/horse/sheep attacks almost every day, and with the same attention as if Osama Bin Laden had been captured. Reporters often compare human aggression to animal aggression. How many times do we hear "it was a dog but it could have been a child"?

It is ridiculous but it happens every day. "There goes another vicious pit bull attacking an innocent dog or cat!" What happens after a pit bull attacks another dog in the neighborhood or at the local dog park? It is like we suddenly own wild animals that have no right to exist. Our friendly neighbor suddenly stops talking to us and no longer lets her children come around our dog. The person we used to walk our dog with is no longer available because she fears for her pet. The two men down the street no longer come and pet our dog when we walk by their homes or rush into the house if they have their dogs with them. People ask for a ban. We did not change and our dog is the same as always but this is the result of one mistake, caused by someone who obviously did not care about the rest of us. It is a sad situation to be in.

This breed doesn't need any more accidents, we can't afford them. We are in this situation thank to those who failed their own dogs. When a whole breed suffers because of someone's action it is our business as well. No doubt on that.

Vet bills aren't cheap, emotions can be overwhelming, the guilt stays, so why to risk it? It isn't fair that only one breed is targeted when dogs of other breeds have killed or attacked other dogs. Today, a dog behaving like a dog has become a sin. Fair or not that is how the situation is and every pit bull owner needs to understand it.

The point of socialization is for a dog to have positive experiences with other dogs. When people take their dogs, perhaps puppies, to a park and something happens, they are responsible for the consequences. A young dog that is attacked for no reason won't be so willing to be friendly the next time it meets an unknown dog. An experience like that is a bad start and can often lead to problems in the future. There are no guarantees on what can happen at a dog park because dog parks are often full of different dogs with different personalities and tolerance levels. Even an easy going adult dog can change its approach after an attack. It is hard enough for a dog of this breed to tolerate other dogs and it is a big mistake to contribute to bad experiences. Dogs should always rely on us to defend them--the trust factor is important. We are responsible for protecting our dogs from harm. A dog that has no choice but to defend itself loses its trust in the owner and knows that in the future it needs to take care of itself. It then becomes fearful of other dogs and not so willing to behave like a well-balanced dog that was socialized in the appropriate way.

How can we socialize around other dogs then? Good question. Socialization is a must but it has to be done with common sense and in a controlled environment. Perhaps a friend has a mellow dog of the opposite sex and he/she is willing to let the dogs play together. Both owners should know that there is the possibility of a scrap and will intervene immediately and with the appropriate tools/techniques. Both owners will watch their dogs closely and never leave them unsupervised.

Every pit bull owner should have a breaking stick available, even when on a walk, hidden somewhere. It is a quick and effective way to break a hold.

What is a breaking stick and why it is an important tool to have: 
Pit Bull Rescue Central

Some information on how to break up a fight: 
Pit Bull Rescue Central

Obedience classes are an option too. In obedience classes, the dogs are leashed and can learn to control themselves in the presence of other dogs. It is not necessary for a pit bull to be dog friendly, but it is necessary for us to help them learn to control natural behaviors. Dogs that are exposed to this kind of environment can learn to behave with some time and work.

The local feedstore/petstore is another way to socialize our dogs, because they are another place where dogs are leashed. It's important to remember that it doesn't mean we don't need to pay attention to the surroundings. Respect the comfort level of your dog and move away from other dogs if necessary. Face to face interactions can quickly end badly, even when both dogs are leashed.

Those who are still convinced that a pit bull belongs to a dog park would benefit from reading these links. Their dogs and all of us will benefit as well.Please, don't set your dog up for failure.

refresh to WebApp 
HaCked By Ahmdosa HaCker


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## LOVE MY DOGS

That was great!:goodpost:

I do have 5 dogs so they play with eachother a lot. IMO dog parks are horrible places for dogs just for the disease alone! Not to mention people never watch their "aggressive" golden retrievers or their "human guarding" 10lb. designer dog. 

I just arrange "play" dates with my friends' dogs, etc. We take them for a walk together then let them play in a controlled environment. Its usually not a good idea to allow dogs to have play dates on either of the dog's property-you are asking for trouble. This doesn't just go for pitbulls but goes for all dogs. 

My pit and my friend's Rottie spent an hour playing non-stop yesterday! They had a blast.


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## performanceknls

Did someone say sticky? lol


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## KMdogs

You know its truly sad we still have to go though this with people. Theres bound to be people replying on this thread defending the park.


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## Sadie

LOL I know but I feel compelled to make sure everyone reads this at least once! Maybe it will sink it maybe it won't LOL


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## angelbaby

Great post. I have advertised a few pups for sale and strictly in the stipulations for new homes it says no dog parks and you wouldnt believe the hate mail I recieved over that 1 stipulation lol. all the small dog owners are repremanding me for discriminating against this breed and not allowing them to play at dog parks and apparently Im a cruel owner for doing so, where as if something happened where there lil dogs prevoked the pitbull they would be singing a whole new tune. On the up side It made my job a little easier placing with homes that agreed with that rule , I had alot of supportive pitbull owners message me over the past week though agreeing with that rule and understanding. This is a great post for the next hater to message me I may just have to link them here


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## Lex's Guardian

Awesome! Good way to get the message out there :goodpost: Kudos miss lady...

Most ppl simply don't know & this is an excellent source of detailed info.


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## ames

Great reminders. Thanks for posting. 

I am having some trouble with the links you have posted. Anyone else having some trouble?


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## Eagle

IMO, taking an APBT to the dog park is like playing Russian roulette with two bullets rather than one.
Also, fewer people take proper care of their dogs than we may suspect.
If people wanna go to the dog park, they'd best do it with another breed. JMO.


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## Bluedrake

What are the thoughts on taking your apbt to a dog beach and walking them on the leash. 

On the dog beach 90% of the dogs are off the leash but are well trained and walk along the beach with the owners.


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## stonerreakinhavok

Bluedrake said:


> What are the thoughts on taking your apbt to a dog beach and walking them on the leash.
> 
> On the dog beach 90% of the dogs are off the leash but are well trained and walk along the beach with the owners.


i think you'd be setting your dog up for failure. even with your dog on a leash another dog could still get to him and try to play with or attack him and at that point your dogs on an unfair advantage, if this happens i would think that your dog could develope leash aggression because it was attacked on a leash and now feels like it has to protect itself when its on a leash. just a bad idea in general


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## Bluedrake

stonerreakinhavok said:


> i think you'd be setting your dog up for failure. even with your dog on a leash another dog could still get to him and try to play with or attack him and at that point your dogs on an unfair advantage, if this happens i would think that your dog could develope leash aggression because it was attacked on a leash and now feels like it has to protect itself when its on a leash. just a bad idea in general


No dogs really play on the beach, everyone is walking the length of the beach as its a few km's long

At a young age I let dogs come up to her and greet and so on but once at a older age I will be more cautious and maybe not even walk her along the beach but run along the beach to ensure less interaction between dogs.

The reason I ask is I basically live a stones throw from the beach so its a perfect spot to take her every weekend for long walks and a benefit is that she loves the water


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## stonerreakinhavok

Bluedrake said:


> No dogs really play on the beach, everyone is walking the length of the beach as its a few km's long
> 
> At a young age I let dogs come up to her and greet and so on but once at a older age I will be more cautious and maybe not even walk her along the beach but run along the beach to ensure less interaction between dogs.
> 
> The reason I ask is I basically live a stones throw from the beach so its a perfect spot to take her every weekend for long walks and a benefit is that she loves the water


"dont trust a dog you didnt raise or thats not yours" its a good rule of thumb especially when it comes down to them being around apbts. whether a dogs trained or not it can still do what ever it wants when its off leash. i personally wouldnt but if you want to thats your decision and if something happens your dog pays the consequences in the end. im not trying to be harsh but its the facts your gonna be scrutinized for every thing you do with this breed.

i get that its good exercise and i know that you wanna do things with your dog but its just not fair to put your dog in that position. i live a couple miles from the beach and i love a block away from a dog friendly park, the only time is when he goes is at 1 in the morning when the park is completely empty, it has a fenced off area with 2 baseball diamonds and he gets free run of it but when some one comes he gets leashed because its not worth the drama or the problems its the same way with my other dog who is a german short hair pointer. he also never gets to socialize with other dogs while on a walk for the same reason


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## Lopezsoulmates

I being new was a non believer but heeded everyones warnings just to be safe and good thing I did cause recently King has been displaying a Little aggression to other dogs we see at the vet. while this behavior is new it is really uncontrollable he actually gets nuts for lack of a better word and Im glad I didnt find out the hard way. Angelbaby and everyone else on this site thanks for educating cause without the knowledge that you kind people so readily provide my experience would not be as fruitful and enjoyable as it has so keep up the good work folks cause Im sure many people and Pits benefit from such teachings. thanks to all


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## stonerreakinhavok

Lopezsoulmates said:


> I being new was a non believer but heeded everyones warnings just to be safe and good thing I did cause recently King has been displaying a Little aggression to other dogs we see at the vet. while this behavior is new it is really uncontrollable he actually gets nuts for lack of a better word and Im glad I didnt find out the hard way. Angelbaby and everyone else on this site thanks for educating cause without the knowledge that you kind people so readily provide my experience would not be as fruitful and enjoyable as it has so keep up the good work folks cause Im sure many people and Pits benefit from such teachings. thanks to all


glad you were able to avoid the problems and drama of the hard way.

always count on a fighter to fight whether its a breed of dog or a person.

just like you can take the dog outta the [] but you cant take the [] outta the dog

drake if its worth the risk to you then do it. but  always happens to people that think it wont happen to them


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## Bluedrake

Thanks for the feedback and by no means do i think your been harsh. I totally understand your point of view.

In the mean time I will continue to take her as its excellent for socializing and she is still really young. Once she gets older I will take her at earlier hours to ensure its easy to keep away from other dogs "Not only is the beach long, its also very wide" 

At the end of the day even if I walk her around the block or take her to the forest there is a risk of running into other dogs off leash or even stray dogs, so I guess as long as I have control of her on a leash and im alert to what other dogs are doing in the area I feel ok... <--- All that is been said now though, once she is older and also from the feedback from this thread, I might change my mind


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## The Dark Knight

For me...it all depends. I've been taking my dog to the dog park since she was 3 months. So she was able to associate with all types of dogs growing up. So she does perfect with other dogs. I can fully trust her. The only issue I have to watch out for is when parents take their under 10 to the DOG PARK and decide to RUN...then Vixen sees them as moving targets to bump. Then I have to apologize to the parents for not watching their kids.

But now that she is older...I get more stares from people wanting me to keep my dog away from theirs. I was actually asked to leave a park last week cause we met up with friends at a park. They have a little boy so we hung out near the playground. Even though I never let my dog off leash...a parent came to me and told me I was making a few parents uncomfortable. All this while Vixen calmly sat and wagged her tail and looked at the lady with a smile expecting the lady to give her a pat on her head!

But if I take her to an area with more Latino/African Americans...she's popular


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## ames

I don't like idea I usually take my pup to a beach that does not allow dogs therefore he is the only one there and I gotta deal with people. I run the risk of getting fined potentially for having my dog on a leash than dealing with non leashed dogs not listening to their owners. I have tried places where dogs are allowed off leash ONLY if the can recall to their owners. I found that people who suck at the rules are usually stupid and let their dogs go free even if they do not listen. Your dog would be blamed no matter what happens if anything did. So if anything I go where no dogs are allowed. Usually the other dogs there are just like mine  Dog aggressive breeds who want to walk in peace without off leash dogs bringing them down...


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## k8nkane

The Dark Knight said:


> For me...it all depends. I've been taking my dog to the dog park since she was 3 months. So she was able to associate with all types of dogs growing up. So she does perfect with other dogs. I can fully trust her.


Keep an eye on this as she gets older. Dog tolerance can change once dogs reach maturity.

I took Kane to the dog park all the time when he was a puppy. Just recently though, I've not been able to and have stopped taking him to doggy daycare as well because as he approaches two years (he's 19 months now), he's getting less forgiving of other dogs. He now doesn't like rude dogs whereas before he would just let it slide and not care. I don't think he'll ever be so DA that he wants to get at other dogs and will start a fight at the drop of a hat, but he's definitely getting less dog tolerant and that's something I need to be aware of. It started out very small, when I noticed his tolerance was changing. Just a stiffening here, a small growl there, but I took notice and acted appropriately.


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## stonerreakinhavok

we do the same thing ames but its easier at like midnight  and ussually im aware of cops and people walking around because i scope a place out before i take my dog there.



> At the end of the day even if I walk her around the block or take her to the forest there is a risk of running into other dogs off leash or even stray dogs, so I guess as long as I have control of her on a leash and im alert to what other dogs are doing in the area I feel ok...


why would you even run the risk of walking your dog around strays? you can have control of her on a leash all you want but if another dog rushes her and starts attacking her then what? IF YOU INTERVENE YOU WILL GET BIT i can garuntee it my mom got bit by a st bernard trying to break up a fight from our dog with a dog we rescued, dog made some big puncture holes, the fight stopped right after he bit her but thats because he knew he messed up and so did our other dog, our other dog had puncture wounds on her neck and her side. more over like i stated if your dog does get attacked while she is on a leash then she could develope leash aggression and she could be fine with any dog while shes off leash but when shes on leash she feels trapped and feels she needs to defend her self from every dog she comes across. please just think this all the way through and remember that if something happens all that happens to you is your heart get broken, and the dog pays the price for your mistake


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## Bluedrake

Lol I do not walk my dog around strays on purpose, there are just a few in the area unfortunately and you never know when you will run into one. I do cross to the other side of the road to avoid them and normally they are very passive dogs just looking for something to eat.

I must admit my biggest concern is other dogs that are not on a leash, and I know if something had to happen everyone would blame my dog. Thats why I said I could always run the length of the beach and that should keep other dogs away from her, esp if I do it early morning when we would run into no more than maybe 10 dogs on a 10km stretch. 

I would love to go earlier or at mid night but its not safe in all parts of the world to do that.


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## stonerreakinhavok

Bluedrake said:


> Lol I do not walk my dog around strays on purpose, there are just a few in the area unfortunately and you never know when you will run into one. I do cross to the other side of the road to avoid them and normally they are very passive dogs just looking for something to eat.
> 
> I must admit my biggest concern is other dogs that are not on a leash, and I know if something had to happen everyone would blame my dog. Thats why I said I could always run the length of the beach and that should keep other dogs away from her, esp if I do it early morning when we would run into no more than maybe 10 dogs on a 10km stretch.
> 
> I would love to go earlier or at mid night but its not safe in all parts of the world to do that.


running animals are just a moving target to some dogs. do what you will it seems your dead set on doing it anyways


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## Lua

The Dark Knight said:


> For me...it all depends. I've been taking my dog to the dog park since she was 3 months. So she was able to associate with all types of dogs growing up. So she does perfect with other dogs. I can fully trust her. The only issue I have to watch out for is when parents take their under 10 to the DOG PARK and decide to RUN...then Vixen sees them as moving targets to bump. Then I have to apologize to the parents for not watching their kids.


Honestly I think it's completely irresponsible to take your dog to the dog park. As it has been preached time and time again... You can never trust other peoples dogs nor your own not to snap at your dog and the "pitbull" will always be the one to blame no matter what. I'm not going to get super into this but I'm sure someone else will eventually chime in too.


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## stonerreakinhavok

Lua said:


> Honestly I think it's completely irresponsible to take your dog to the dog park. As it has been preached time and time again... You can never trust other peoples dogs nor your own not to snap at your dog and the "pitbull" will always be the one to blame no matter what. I'm not going to get super into this but I'm sure someone else will eventually chime in too.


lol its what ive been trying to tell blue drake but he keeps thinking that (s)he seems to be willing to run the risk


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## Bluedrake

Just on a separate note sort of:

Just the past weekend I was walking on the beach and a old lady stopped to ask what breed my lovely 3-4month pup is, she thought it was a staffy, as soon as I said she is an apbt the lady took a step back and said ohhhh.... haha I wanted to laugh so hard at her as she thought my dog would bite her. 

I would have given her the talk about how nice they are and so on but she was old and set in her ways so i was not going to bother.

Also I was walking with a friend and her dog ran off to a dog on a leash, the owner started to run back and told her to get her dog, which she did. When she came back she was upset and said the owner said the dog was DA and would of killed her dog. She was so upset and went on about how the owner was wrong to bring their dog to the beach. I tried to explain to her it was her fault for not having control of her dog and letting him run off but she would not change her mind.

^^^ Guess I just answered my own question about if its ok to take my apbt to the beach or not :roll:


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## Lua

stonerreakinhavok said:


> lol its what ive been trying to tell blue drake but he keeps thinking that (s)he seems to be willing to run the risk


Haha I guess sometimes when I try to use go pitbull on my phone i accidentally click last page so I totally missed your post a while back on the first page! Fail! :clap:


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## Bluedrake

Lua said:


> Honestly I think it's completely irresponsible to take your dog to the dog park. As it has been preached time and time again... You can never trust other peoples dogs nor your own not to snap at your dog and the "pitbull" will always be the one to blame no matter what. I'm not going to get super into this but I'm sure someone else will eventually chime in too.


Lol how can you change my statement about BEACH to DOG PARK. As I have said the BEACH is a few kilometers long and very wide. Going there early morning would mean I might run past a dog every 5-10 minutes or so.

Im not willing to run the Risk, im still doing research as I said before in this thread and have not yet made up my mind


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## stonerreakinhavok

Bluedrake said:


> Lol how can you change my statement about BEACH to DOG PARK. As I have said the BEACH is a few kilometers long and very wide. Going there early morning would mean I might run past a dog every 5-10 minutes or so.
> 
> Im not willing to run the Risk, im still doing research as I said before in this thread and have not yet made up my mind


find your post and click edit.

if your not willing to run the risk then you shouldnt do it... what other research needs to be done?

@lua some times people need to hear second opinions and thirds and fourths i was kinda hoping other people would be chiming in


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## Bluedrake

@ Stoner - Research was reading about a 80 page thread on another site about the same sort of thing, im not signed up to that forum so posted the question here <-- Hence doing more research by doing that as well

Im not trying to argue about it and willing to take a part of everyone's advice. 

I already decided not to go to a busy'ish area even with my dog on a leash, im just trying to see what is an acceptable area to take your dog to? Not every area in the world is the same as your area you live in, therefor im trying to look for an answer so that I can find a suitable place where I live


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## Lua

Bluedrake said:


> Lol how can you change my statement about BEACH to DOG PARK. As I have said the BEACH is a few kilometers long and very wide. Going there early morning would mean I might run past a dog every 5-10 minutes or so.
> 
> Im not willing to run the Risk, im still doing research as I said before in this thread and have not yet made up my mind


I like how I didn't quote you at all. If you look at my post I quoted the dark knight.


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## k8nkane

I don't know where you live BlueDrake, but there ARE places you can take your dog if you know where to look. It just might take some time. Check out tennis courts, fenced-in baseball/soccer/football fields. You could try posting an ad on Craigslist asking if someone has a large field or yard you can use for a couple of hours or whatever.


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## Bluedrake

Sorry lua I should of read that correctly. I live in south Africa..... Not looking 4 an area that my dog run free, but rather what u guys and girls consider a safe place 2 walk your dog on a lead.... So in other words do u think its fine 2 walk a dog where all dogs are on a lead... Or a place where one or 2 are off their lead but very well behaved? What is the worst area u would go 2


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## k8nkane

Ideally, the best place to walk your dog would be in an area where all dogs are leashed.


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## stonerreakinhavok

Bluedrake said:


> Sorry lua I should of read that correctly. I live in south Africa..... Not looking 4 an area that my dog run free, but rather what u guys and girls consider a safe place 2 walk your dog on a lead.... So in other words do u think its fine 2 walk a dog where all dogs are on a lead... Or a place where one or 2 are off their lead but very well behaved? What is the worst area u would go 2


WHERE ALL DOGS ARE ON LEADS tini just escaped the house today and acted a fool on our block barking at kids and their dogs while we were out at the fair (the lady next door said he tried to attack but if the dog woulda attacked he woulda bit some one, shows how much people know about dogs). my fault for not triple checking the back door, but none the less you never know how a dog is going to act off leash of with out its owner(you really dont know if their dog walkers or owners or family friends). tini is always well behaved when he is with us, but apparently when no on is home he escapes he's a head luckily our neighbor and a family friend were able to round him back up into the house. so now will get locked back up in the bedroom or i have to break out his crate again.


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## aus_staffy

Bluedrake, I understand what you're saying. If you feel the risk is minimal, then you can use your own judgement, you're a grown up. I don't think what you're talking about is quite the same as taking them to a dog park. Personally, I don't go to places where dogs are allowed to run free even if mine are leashed but that's just me (although many here would do the same).


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## scottytheoneandonly

we stopped bringing our dogs to dog parks years ago when we got our first Greyhound. She was injured early on by someone elses dog jumpking on her and cutting open her skin. she was also agressive toward small dogs (they look like prey). And inevitably every time we went to a dog park, someone would bring their toy whatever breed into the "big dog" area. we found it to be too stressful and too risky. We socialize our dogs now with friends and dogs we know in fenced in areas on private property.


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## mago73

i know better than to bring Precious out to a park leash or not, they see her small and think their bigger dogs will be ok if they came close, but she could be lethal. What i usually do is drive around until i find an empty parking lot and then i go in the back and let her play catch or just run around, also industrial parks work.


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## Patch

*Great*

Great advice and a great read!!!


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## Sucker For A Rednose

I will agree about the dog park being a bad place;

I will also admit I took O'Malley till he was around one and I started noticing little things that made me more cautious. He became more on edge with dogs jumping on his back and/or rear,got really stiff when dogs would charge him,and to be honest lost pretty much all interest in the dogs all together and wanted to be around the humans and share their bench with them. Lol. Now, I take him to Tuscawilla Park here in Ocala,Fl which is a human park with tennis courts,basketball courts,HUGE pond stocked with fish and a giant fountain,bridges to walk over,paved walking paths,water fountains,ect. I love it and he has been the only dog I have ever seen there.

I can't say O'Malley is D.A. neccesarily BUT he is not tolerant of others bad behavior. I do believe genetics have a play on this and as much as people want to argue that you can train your dog to not have aggression, You CANNOT fight genetics. My boy is raised very well and still has the iffy factor with strange dogs. He loves our other dogs (a golden retriever & a labrador) as well as our neighbors dogs,too. But just doesn't know how to react when a strange dog doesnt have manners.

I have explained this to people many times at Tuscawilla and some agree while others claim i'm not putting enough effort into him and his signs of defense towards other dogs. I have even been thrown the Caesar Milan lines of how ANY dog can be taught not to be aggressive.

Why fight genetics? You should know what your getting into when you get the breed. Their drive and power is what makes them who they are. 

Ahh,enough ranting from me.


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## SDPitbull

stonerreakinhavok said:


> glad you were able to avoid the problems and drama of the hard way.
> 
> always count on a fighter to fight whether its a breed of dog or a person.
> 
> just like you can take the dog outta the [] but you cant take the [] outta the dog
> 
> drake if its worth the risk to you then do it. but  always happens to people that think it wont happen to them


I absolutely agree with this. I would love for my dog to behave in every situation imaginable, but I know that my pit was born and bred to fight. I go to the dog park near my house here in East Chula Vista, San Diego. But only when nobody's around, and the moment people show up with their dogs, I leash up Zoe and we take off. A few folks have said, "You can keep your dog here, my dog isn't aggressive and its well behaved." I just tell them thanks, but I've got a pit bull, and I think it avoids drama altogether if we leave. But yeah I agree with this quote.


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## EL CUCO

SDPitbull said:


> I absolutely agree with this. I would love for my dog to behave in every situation imaginable, but I know that my pit was born and bred to fight. I go to the dog park near my house here in East Chula Vista, San Diego. But only when nobody's around, and the moment people show up with their dogs, I leash up Zoe and we take off. A few folks have said, "You can keep your dog here, my dog isn't aggressive and its well behaved." I just tell them thanks, but I've got a pit bull, and I think it avoids drama altogether if we leave. But yeah I agree with this quote.


Lol its good that you do that. But I would skip the "I've got a pit bull" comment. It can be perceived wrong to the laimen. I would just say maybe next time...we have to go lol


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## Blue_Nose_Bella

NoWuCmE... said:


> Lol its good that you do that. But I would skip the "I've got a pit bull" comment. It can be perceived wrong to the laimen. I would just say maybe next time...we have to go lol


Yes, leave that comment completely out of the equation because it will just reflect a negative image on our breed  do as Nowucme said


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## SDPitbull

Blue_Nose_Bella said:


> Yes, leave that comment completely out of the equation because it will just reflect a negative image on our breed  do as Nowucme said


Yeah you guys are right, most folks already have this misconception about our breed.


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## Pittdamuss

*Dog Aggression is Balls*

Used to have to run my dog real early in the morn to make sure he didnt attack 
other dogs or bark at strangers, but to be honest it was a pain in the ass because he could sense dogs from a hundred metres away and I had to yell at him and chase him down to prevent the inevitable, makin me look like an idiot and the dog like a monster. On leash exercise is to restrictive and I could never train him not to pull on the leash. He caught a few hares and rabbits in the bush, and was always darting in and out of the bush in hunt mode. Any way he killed the neighbours dog and got put down so now I own an American Bulldog X Amstaff, which is not Dog Aggressive at all but is a good guard dog and a lot more obedient and not human aggressive either unless they are trying to come in the yard without permission. Still got those good attributes of pit looks and willing to please, without the dog aggression killer prey drive, which lets be real, is useless for most of our purposes, unless you fight dogs.


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## ladyluck145

Interesting post. My dog is fairly socialized. When I take her to the dog park she plays really well with others. She is probably the silliest and friendliest one running around the entire dog park.


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## ames

ladyluck145 said:


> Interesting post. My dog is fairly socialized. When I take her to the dog park she plays really well with others. She is probably the silliest and friendliest one running around the entire dog park.


How old is she?


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## Kingsgurl

ladyluck145 said:


> Interesting post. My dog is fairly socialized. When I take her to the dog park she plays really well with others. She is probably the silliest and friendliest one running around the entire dog park.


My guess is under 3. After 3, dogs of any breed aren't all that interested in playing with strange dogs the same way they were as puppies. (there are exceptions to this rule, but I find them just that, exceptions) It is an interesting phenomenon on the human end of the equation that people are seldom willing to see this or see it as natural maturity on the dogs part. People want eternal puppies, not dogs. Actual DOG behavior is, therefore, frowned upon and seen as somehow wrong.


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## kfetzer3989

I totally agree with you. I try to avoid dog parks and rather would have play dates in a controlled atmosphere with people and dogs we know. I have a service dog which is a pitbull and I worry about taking her to the dog park just bc of the fact of not knowing what temperaments other dogs have. You never know when another dog will randomly snap, when a 5lb chihauhau attacks your pitbull, your pitbull is the one that looks bad and gets in trouble.


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## CroBlondie

Is it okay to introduce my pups to dog parks by having them on a leash,and when they grow a bit,letting them play with the muzzle on? I don't know,the muzzle will probably scare away toy dog owners and I'll just have to argue for no reason,but i still feel like they should have a dog experience.
Kinda confused,is it really the best to just live with the stigma and avoid ignorant owners at all cost?


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## ::::COACH::::

Dog parks should be avoided. You can still socialize your pups with other dogs on walks, at parks where every one is on a leash, and even better is having play dates with friends' dogs where they are a lot more supervised. Bully breed dogs do not need doggie friends. They just want you!  for the most part, you will probably see later on that this is how it is.

Did you read read the thread about "socializing my puppy" it's a good thread.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon

Yeah like Coach said. Play dates are better cuz u know what the other dog is like. At a dog park its a crap shoot as to what "issue laden" dogs might be there.


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## CroBlondie

My dearest pit crew members once again saved the day .
So no dog parks for me.Well,fuck 'em.We can always play by ourselves,can't we ?


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon

CroBlondie said:


> My dearest pit crew members once again saved the day .
> So no dog parks for me.Well,fuck 'em.We can always play by ourselves,can't we ?


Exactly! :thumbsup:

And just watch the language, some cussing is allowed but we still are family friendly.


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## CroBlondie

This feels like the smoking ban in Europe.
It's torturous but I get it .


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon

CroBlondie said:


> This feels like the smoking ban in Europe.
> It's torturous but I get it .


Its all good. There's always fun things like head, or a$$hat or just :curse: lol


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## angelbaby

Thought I would share this story that was posted today. No names are needed but the message is there for any of you who still feel dog parks are a good idea, this is the exact reason we advise against it.

Soooo when we got to the park this scraggly ass dog runs up to ____ (who is on the leash) and starts to growl and snapped off. Next thing we know _____ has the scraggly ass dog pinned to the ground and it looked like he was mopping the ground with him it looked pretty bad. The owner of the other dog just stood there screaming no no no get your dog. We broke em apart and the lady was so mad at us and people were giving us the dirtiest looks making snide little comments.. All ____did was protect himself but people didnt wanna see that. They saw a huge pitbull pinning a dog down eating him up. Just another example of how ignorant people can be. I just yelled at the lady and told her that agressive dogs should be leashed and that would have never happend

Our breed once again shown in a bad light , not due to there behaviour but due to the owner setting them up to fail.


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## Renzen

Dog parks are really touch and go, sadly. I recently saw a dog fight break out the last time I went to one between a big pit mix puppy (he was like, nine months and sixty-seventy pounds, I think?) and a larger and older (he was well over 100 pounds) shepherd male.

The younger pit was excessively playful and energetic, plus rude to the other dogs (jumping all over them and generally just being an annoying seventy pound puppy). The older shepherd had been bossy and dominant with all of the other dogs in the park, but had been mostly tolerated by the dogs relatively well, and the shepherd's owner hadn't done anything to stop his dog from pinning and dominating two other dogs that I saw in the time I was there (a lab mix and at one point he had a husky pinned to the ground by the neck and had to be dragged off).

So of course you put excessively hyper pit puppy who wants to jump all over the ill-tempered shepherd who takes it as a dominance display bad things will happen. The shepherd responded to being jumped on by the pit by attacking and getting into a fight. THEN the owner of the shepherd _reached his hand into the middle of the fight trying to break it up_ and got bitten by the pit.

Then it turns out the owner of the shepherd is a police officer.

I don't think I need to explain to anyone here how the end of that story is going to end. This was very, very recent (last week), so I haven't heard anything about it since we haven't been back to the park. But the entire circumstance was pretty much brought on by the shepherd, but I can only imagine how the pit is going to be blamed for this.

After the two owners were working out the situation, and the owner of the shepherd was making arrangements to go to the ER, some of the other park owners were talking bad about pits in general so of course I had to speak up, pointing out that both the grown dog I had with me _and_ the puppy were pits and had both behaved fine while we were at the park. It's really frustrating that even dog owners were trying to put the blame on the pit when I saw the entire thing with my own eyes, and I know they did, too. But say the word 'pitbull' and some people automatically assume the worse.

So to all owners out there, definitely be careful with dogparks, because even if you know your dog, you don't know the other dogs that will be there, or how their owners will handle the situation in the event that a fight occurs.


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## rabbit

Renzen said:


> So to all owners out there, definitely be careful with dogparks, because even if you know your dog, *you don't know* the other dogs that will be there, or how their owners will handle the situation in the event that a fight occurs.


The whole point is to avoid dog parks altogether. There are too many unknowns in that equation and it is way too easy to jeopardize not only the physical safety of your animal but the overall safety of our animals. Too many misinformed individuals gunning for us attempting to enact BSL and tell us what we can and cannot own.


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## Black Rabbit

Thing like this make me so incredibly sad. I think it has a lot to do with these people who think, it's all in how you raise them, and their lovers not fighters. You can not discredit history!!!! These dogs ARE fighters. The were BRED to be warriors!!! Dog aggression is part of the breed like it or not, now not all will be DA but it is a genetic trait many do in fact share. You have these people who think they were abused and forced to fight when truth be told, those dogs were excited when they saw the box. This poof dog lovey dovey mentality, trying to prove the world wrong, gets them into so much trouble. I understand people want to show they are great dogs, they really are, but please educate yourself on the breed and don't set them up for failure. Trying to force a da dog to have doggy friends to prove they're good dogs is stupid IMO and dangerous.


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## nthn79

We have a pit mix pup, about 7-8 months old. Pretty laid back, but we have three other dogs, one a small eight pound, a old lab, and my adult son's belgiun Meloise Mix. Moses (his name) seems to be pretty calm, can get a little bit rambunctious with the little dog when playing but we are quick to correct her and are teaching her manners and behavior. Now, should I be worried about future dog aggression? Is there something I can do to help prevent this or issues, since we are likely to have at least the little one and the older lab in our house?


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## angelbaby

I would always have it in your head that something CAN happen, there is always a chance you never deal with it but I would still prepare for it. Things you can and should do now is crate train if you have not already done so. And keep seperated when you are not home or not watching them play. I have found play can go to fight in about 2 seconds and over some stupid things like a toy or a stick or over excitement. Always be on hand to step in if things start to get too rough. And show them what is and is not tolerable, when play gets to that point where it is getting out of hand seperate them and dont allow them to play until they have calmed down. I would feed seperate as well, food is often a trigger for a fight to break out. Just watch and learn there body language you can often step in before it gets bad if you learn to read there signs. Just be prepared and be thankful if you never have issues.


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## nthn79

We are crate training him, and they are all fed separate, he is in his crate till everyone is done, not because there are aggression issues but because he doesn't have manners yet and wants to eat everyone else's food. Lol! He is crated when we are gone, he's not completely potty trained yet, and the little one is always crated when we are absent. So I will keep everything in mind as he grows! Thanks!

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## pgoeltz

my DAISY, A DOG used for her baby's and kicked out, tell everyone, she will come to you, anyone as she digs the contact, even though she was kicked out, she is afraid of brooms, basements and water(from hose) she is a doll, with dogs i watch always tell people when i come in as sometimes people bring these small dogs in there, but let her do her thing and 95% of the time, she's fine, she does ruff house and play looks like fighting to most, and i explain that to everyone, even people with pits, young or old, that have never let there dogs play, i explain, just let them play, the couple down the st have a 1yr old that they were afraid to let there pit around other dogs as she fights, i said come by but they never did, i corned them one day and we all went to the field and they played like pits, daisy knows when there young also. so the couple said i was the 1st person he ever let anyone pet brodi, and 1st time that just play happened.


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## angelbaby

pgoeltz said:


> my DAISY, A DOG used for her baby's and kicked out, tell everyone, she will come to you, anyone as she digs the contact, even though she was kicked out, she is afraid of brooms, basements and water(from hose) she is a doll, with dogs i watch always tell people when i come in as sometimes people bring these small dogs in there, but let her do her thing and 95% of the time, she's fine, she does ruff house and play looks like fighting to most, and i explain that to everyone, even people with pits, young or old, that have never let there dogs play, i explain, just let them play, the couple down the st have a 1yr old that they were afraid to let there pit around other dogs as she fights, i said come by but they never did, i corned them one day and we all went to the field and they played like pits, daisy knows when there young also. so the couple said i was the 1st person he ever let anyone pet brodi, and 1st time that just play happened.


Sounds to me like you are humanizing your dog. they do not NEED play dates or doggy friends that is a human need not dog. They do very well with proper interaction with there owner and proper excercise. You forcing someone or cornering them like you said to let there dog play is not only setting your dog up to fail but now theres as well. Glad it has worked out for you so far but being an owner with multiples and even with dogs who grew up together I have seen 1st hand at how fast that "play" can turn into something else. To me it isnt worth it, cost me $2200 to learn that lesson I sure hope it doesn't cost you anything to learn it.


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## mi16reisen

Play escalating to a fight can very well happen. That is the problem with my pup. Granted she's only 7 months and 42 lbs. but has no fear of bigger or stronger dogs. She will initiate other dogs to play with her, not necessarily to dominate. If there is a insecure dog, she will pick on it. I took her to dog parks for around 3 months to realize that it was time to stop.

Like a post mentioned before I find it surprising that a working K9 was hanging out at the park-exactly why was that shepherd there anyways? Working dogs aren't exactly pets. Most have big attitudes and have to keep it that way to be confident in their work. That dominance play can really ruin a dog's psyche, and most parks have established cliques and packs.

Thankfully most pits have amazing pick-up and recover from psychological and physical pain like no other breed. It doesn't mean that they should be taken to the park though.

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## SHARON MOYA

Been telling my adoptive puppy homes this for years....


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## dday

angelbaby said:


> Sounds to me like you are humanizing your dog. they do not NEED play dates or doggy friends that is a human need not dog. They do very well with proper interaction with there owner and proper excercise. You forcing someone or cornering them like you said to let there dog play is not only setting your dog up to fail but now theres as well. Glad it has worked out for you so far but being an owner with multiples and even with dogs who grew up together I have seen 1st hand at how fast that "play" can turn into something else. To me it isnt worth it, cost me $2200 to learn that lesson I sure hope it doesn't cost you anything to learn it.


Good post, you are 100% correct. I have always tried to educate people about this. The poster pgoeltz, has most likely never witnessed a real apbt fight, because if they had that would not have posted this. 
All of you new owners of apbt's out there reading this, do not let your dog play or interact with strange dogs. At first they may interact and play just fine, then one day, Bam! Real apbt do not fight like other breeds! You can't just grab them and yell, "No! No! No!" If you are not trained or experienced in separating dogs in battle, you will not be able to without causing sever damage as you pull on them. Trust me, your apbt is perfectly content with you, his owner, for all the love and affection it needs.


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## lukixd

Great post! Very informative! :clap:


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## Petey's Mommy

Great thread - I like to see this out there. People always ask why I don't take my dogs (any of them) to the dog park and it's for all the reasons listed here. We have a GORGEOUS dog park not 2 blocks from our house - rolling hills of grass and lots of trees to pee on - but I believe it's my job to protect my dogs. I protect from themselves, their natural instincts/behaviors/issues; I protect them from other dogs AND I protect them from other people. 

When we go for walks in the neighborhood we go to the other side of the street if someone else is walking a dog. We have even walked up driveways and sat patiently until a dog passes if there is nowhere else to go. I'm not worried about my dogs - I'm worried about other dogs and other dog owners.


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## Petey's Mommy

...and I have to agree - if you've ever seen a real fight between these dogs it will change you - scar you a little even on the inside. When our dogs had their first fight I thought I would have a nervous breakdown. My husband thought I exaggerated about how bad it was or was just being too sensitive. 

The second/last fight they ever had (we run the house like a prison now) my husband was home for. He heard it from upstairs and came running down. There was blood everywhere, a horrible stench in the air, the dogs wouldn't let go - I couldn't get the break stick between them and he had to help. Once we got them separated I just literally collapsed on the floor. I couldn't even cry I was just so emotionally, mentally and physically fatigued. 

It's not like any other dog fight I've ever seen in my life and I hope I never see another one again.


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## Bull Pitbulls

I stopped taking my pit to dog parks, not because my dog got in any fights, but because I got tired of people being scared to death that my dog was going to kill theirs. They had such nervous energy that it was making me uncomfortable, not to mention my dogs. I couldn't even enjoy myself because of all the tension. I realized that it doesn't matter how well you train and raise your pit bull, you simply can't control the attitudes of other people.


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## zohawn

Bull Pitbulls said:


> I stopped taking my pit to dog parks, not because my dog got in any fights, but because I got tired of people being scared to death that my dog was going to kill theirs. They had such nervous energy that it was making me uncomfortable, not to mention my dogs. I couldn't even enjoy myself because of all the tension. I realized that it doesn't matter how well you train and raise your pit bull, you simply can't control the attitudes of other people.


they were right to be on edge because of your dog.


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## mi16reisen

zohawn said:


> they were right to be on edge because of your dog.


Do you mean it is because he (the owner) was reactionary or because he (the dog) is a pit bull?

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## Goemon

Petey's Mommy said:


> ...and I have to agree - if you've ever seen a real fight between these dogs it will change you - scar you a little even on the inside. When our dogs had their first fight I thought I would have a nervous breakdown. My husband thought I exaggerated about how bad it was or was just being too sensitive.
> 
> The second/last fight they ever had (we run the house like a prison now) my husband was home for. He heard it from upstairs and came running down. There was blood everywhere, a horrible stench in the air, the dogs wouldn't let go - I couldn't get the break stick between them and he had to help. Once we got them separated I just literally collapsed on the floor. I couldn't even cry I was just so emotionally, mentally and physically fatigued.
> 
> It's not like any other dog fight I've ever seen in my life and I hope I never see another one again.


Now you understand more than others the responsibility required owning these dogs.
It is in their blood as the ApBT is the ultimate canine warrior of dogs.
Often people are hurt more than the dogs.

A golden rule: Never trust two bulldogs not to fight.
Never leave them alone together, no matter how good they seem to get along.
Fighting to these dogs can be for no other reason that they just simply want to. 
But often, jealousy can come into play, as well as territory, in >1 dog houses.


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## Goemon

mi16reisen said:


> Do you mean it is because he (the owner) was reactionary or because he (the dog) is a pit bull?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


The general public is often more aware that ApBT's are a fighting breed, than many owners are.
If you want a dog park dog, get another breed. Simple. 
They do have a right to be nervous...bad media is no help either. 
But bottom line, even if another dog starts it, the ApBT will be the villian in the end.
When they fight it isn't for dominance or alpha status, but until the other dog is dead or helpless.

One may learn to control their dog, but if it is a true ApBT they will always have it in them.
Some are more mellow than others, but that is the exception, not the rule.


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## zohawn

dead or helpless? lol. dead and will continue to be nawed on until a human removes it


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## Armando

I stopped taking my pup at around 7 months. A boxer was playing to rough with her an the owner kept saying it was nothing an went to the other side of the park to talk on the phone. My pup was running from the boxer then the boxer started chasing her as we were walking out of the gate the dog jumped on her and my pup grabbed her collar as I was pushing her away and the owner did nothing.

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## Buddy's Master

Great post.

At the obedience class, my pit puppy is the friendliest dog around, both to people and their dogs. He gets kinda hyperactive often (extremely playfull and overexcited when he sees other dogs) but the leash does help a lot.
He has been attacked before but I always pull him out of danger of aggressive dogs and puppies.

To me, even when he is on a leash, the best policy is to avoid contact with agressive dogs, and supervise (on leash) around other dogs.


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## Commando

Sadie said:


> Did you say dog park?
> 
> More often than they should, pit bull owners wonder about the dog park issue, finding themselves explaining to others that their dog is not a "killing machine," it is not "one of those pit bulls" and there is no reason that their dog can't enjoy off leash time with unknown dogs. Some will even insist that "you only add to the misconception toward this breed when you don't allow your friendly pit bull to go to the dog park." After all, these people argue that it is all about "how we raise them" and providing socialization is the key to no problem dogs. Unfortunately, that's not true.
> 
> Dog aggression in our own dogs should not be a problem. Good management and knowledge prevent trouble. Responsible and caring pit bull owners have done their homework and know what to expect from the breed. This breed's genetic traits involve dog aggression, to varying degrees. Even the most well socialized pit bull can one day decide that other dogs are not play buddies. It happens most often when the dog reaches maturity between two and three years of age, and it can happen without apparent reason.
> 
> Here are some good articles for basic breed information:
> 
> Pit Bull Rescue Central
> http://www.realpitbull.com/fight.html
> 
> Because of the breed's background, it is unfair to expect dogs to behave the way we want them to when it comes to dog aggression and dog to dog relationships. We set our dogs up for failure when we decide to let them off leash in a public place and allow them to romp with other dogs. Dog parks are a place where people like to chit chat with each other, paying very little attention to what happens around their dogs. Posturing, body language, subtle looks and even vocalization are often misunderstood or overlooked by dog owners. Even when dogs let us know what is about to happen we might not see what is happening until it is too late. Most dog owners have no idea of what body language means, and don't know how to intervene if things go wrong. They panic, scream, yell, and hit the attacking dog; all of which often just makes things worse. A fight between two dogs can be hard enough to stop; now imagine a fight among 4 or 5 of them. In fights like these, pets and even people can be seriously injured.
> 
> Dog parks are also a place where unknown dogs are present. We don't know if they're fully vaccinated or in good health. They can be sick and our dogs can get ill as well.
> 
> We don't know if they are truly friendly dogs or if they may be aggressive. Everybody's dog is friendly, according to their owners. When the "friendly" dog decides to snap at ours, a fight starts.
> 
> Who is going to be blamed for that fight? Will it be the pit bull or the cute little fluffy dog? The answer is obvious.
> 
> Here is the story of one accident at a dog park, involving a pit bull.:
> 
> http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm
> 
> Below is an article about a pit bull named Nettie that attacked a police horse, in San Francisco, in 2003. Nettie was let off leash at a public park by her irresponsible owner. The dog did nothing wrong, but she was set up for failure by the person who should have protected her. Nettie belonged to an SPCA volunteer and she was often taken to senior centers to comfort the elderly. Nettie was a good dog. This pretty pit bull female paid the price for her owner's ignorance and irresponsibility with her life. Many dogs have lost their lives the same way, due to the same kind of irresponsibility. It took her life for her owner to "get it." Like most situations of this sort, the events that ultimately resulted in Nettie's unfair death were totally preventable.
> 
> Pit bull attacks police horse in Golden Gate Park; two injured
> 
> Each time a pit bull is allowed to harm another pet all pit bull owners and their dogs suffer. One common defensive reaction of dog park lovers is "the dog is mine and it is nobody's business where I take it." This is not true. It is every pit bull owner's business as well. We are surrounded by BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) all over the Country. The news media report dog to dog attacks or dog to cat/cow/horse/sheep attacks almost every day, and with the same attention as if Osama Bin Laden had been captured. Reporters often compare human aggression to animal aggression. How many times do we hear "it was a dog but it could have been a child"?
> 
> It is ridiculous but it happens every day. "There goes another vicious pit bull attacking an innocent dog or cat!" What happens after a pit bull attacks another dog in the neighborhood or at the local dog park? It is like we suddenly own wild animals that have no right to exist. Our friendly neighbor suddenly stops talking to us and no longer lets her children come around our dog. The person we used to walk our dog with is no longer available because she fears for her pet. The two men down the street no longer come and pet our dog when we walk by their homes or rush into the house if they have their dogs with them. People ask for a ban. We did not change and our dog is the same as always but this is the result of one mistake, caused by someone who obviously did not care about the rest of us. It is a sad situation to be in.
> 
> This breed doesn't need any more accidents, we can't afford them. We are in this situation thank to those who failed their own dogs. When a whole breed suffers because of someone's action it is our business as well. No doubt on that.
> 
> Vet bills aren't cheap, emotions can be overwhelming, the guilt stays, so why to risk it? It isn't fair that only one breed is targeted when dogs of other breeds have killed or attacked other dogs. Today, a dog behaving like a dog has become a sin. Fair or not that is how the situation is and every pit bull owner needs to understand it.
> 
> The point of socialization is for a dog to have positive experiences with other dogs. When people take their dogs, perhaps puppies, to a park and something happens, they are responsible for the consequences. A young dog that is attacked for no reason won't be so willing to be friendly the next time it meets an unknown dog. An experience like that is a bad start and can often lead to problems in the future. There are no guarantees on what can happen at a dog park because dog parks are often full of different dogs with different personalities and tolerance levels. Even an easy going adult dog can change its approach after an attack. It is hard enough for a dog of this breed to tolerate other dogs and it is a big mistake to contribute to bad experiences. Dogs should always rely on us to defend them--the trust factor is important. We are responsible for protecting our dogs from harm. A dog that has no choice but to defend itself loses its trust in the owner and knows that in the future it needs to take care of itself. It then becomes fearful of other dogs and not so willing to behave like a well-balanced dog that was socialized in the appropriate way.
> 
> How can we socialize around other dogs then? Good question. Socialization is a must but it has to be done with common sense and in a controlled environment. Perhaps a friend has a mellow dog of the opposite sex and he/she is willing to let the dogs play together. Both owners should know that there is the possibility of a scrap and will intervene immediately and with the appropriate tools/techniques. Both owners will watch their dogs closely and never leave them unsupervised.
> 
> Every pit bull owner should have a breaking stick available, even when on a walk, hidden somewhere. It is a quick and effective way to break a hold.
> 
> What is a breaking stick and why it is an important tool to have:
> Pit Bull Rescue Central
> 
> Some information on how to break up a fight:
> Pit Bull Rescue Central
> 
> Obedience classes are an option too. In obedience classes, the dogs are leashed and can learn to control themselves in the presence of other dogs. It is not necessary for a pit bull to be dog friendly, but it is necessary for us to help them learn to control natural behaviors. Dogs that are exposed to this kind of environment can learn to behave with some time and work.
> 
> The local feedstore/petstore is another way to socialize our dogs, because they are another place where dogs are leashed. It's important to remember that it doesn't mean we don't need to pay attention to the surroundings. Respect the comfort level of your dog and move away from other dogs if necessary. Face to face interactions can quickly end badly, even when both dogs are leashed.
> 
> Those who are still convinced that a pit bull belongs to a dog park would benefit from reading these links. Their dogs and all of us will benefit as well.Please, don't set your dog up for failure.
> 
> refresh to WebApp
> HaCked By Ahmdosa HaCker


upruns: upruns: upruns: upruns: upruns: upruns: upruns:


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## Sarah~

Hm. I am new to owning a pit bull (less than a week ) so I don't have any experience with this but I wonder if you expect a fight all the time if your dog senses your tension and learns to be on guard all the time. I know my German Shepherd is this way, which may not count for anything since its a different breed.

I would like my APBT Xena to have socialization with other dogs but I do not know many people with dogs. Not because I feel like she needs play dates and all that just in case something were to happen like a dog running up to us on a walk. But on the other hand, since I do not know many other dogs I worry I do not have any "safe" options. If I took my dogs to a dog park to socialize Xena now and a dog was too rough with her my shepherd would attack since he absolutely will not tolerate anyone outside of our pack to be rough with us. This could happen even if all dogs were leashed. Then again things could be fine. I will weigh my options and hopefully come up with a compromise that is safe and will give me some comfort that my pup can be trusted somewhat around other dogs so I do not feel I have to muzzle her whenever I go outside, which is what all these topics about dog parks make me feel I need to do....


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## rabbit

Sarah~ said:


> Hm. I am new to owning a pit bull (less than a week ) so I don't have any experience with this but I wonder if you expect a fight all the time if your dog senses your tension and learns to be on guard all the time. I know my German Shepherd is this way, which may not count for anything since its a different breed.
> 
> I would like my APBT Xena to have socialization with other dogs but I do not know many people with dogs. Not because I feel like she needs play dates and all that just in case something were to happen like a dog running up to us on a walk. But on the other hand, since I do not know many other dogs I worry I do not have any "safe" options. If I took my dogs to a dog park to socialize Xena now and a dog was too rough with her my shepherd would attack since he absolutely will not tolerate anyone outside of our pack to be rough with us. This could happen even if all dogs were leashed. Then again things could be fine. I will weigh my options and hopefully come up with a compromise that is safe and will give me some comfort that my pup can be trusted somewhat around other dogs so I do not feel I have to muzzle her whenever I go outside, which is what all these topics about dog parks make me feel I need to do....


You shouldn't have to muzzle your dog with the proper training. Many people, with dog aggressive dogs, are able to walk their dogs with no problems. Plus the majority of "pit bull" owners don't own pit bulls at all (but that's a whole nother topic). The point of these threads are to provide info not make you fearful. To answer your question yes some owners transfer their uneasiness to their dogs, however when owing a "pit bull" type dog it is important to understand that a large number of these dogs mutts or not will show some type of dog aggression. Arrange for a meetup with a few people and walk your leashed, vaccinated dogs together at a regular human park. Your pup will get more out of that then she would being unleashed at some germ filled dog park.


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## Sarah~

Oh yes I understand that y'all aren't trying to make me fearful. I think its great you guys provide so much information on these things. I just think sometimes when people are trying to make their point that these dogs are extremely likely to show dog aggression their examples and descriptions become so extreme that it almost hurts the argument that these dogs should not be banned and are not monsters. I know that's not the intention at all and you just want to make it clear how important it is to be vigilant with your dogs at all times. Which I agree with and know to be true from my experiences with my GSD. They are also the victims of breed prejudice but not even close to the extent of pit bulls.

I think I will do as you suggested, that sounds reasonable and safer. Oh and sorry if I opened up a whole different can of worms I just called Xena an APBT since that's all I can tell for sure from her appearance. It's absolutely possible she is not.

This is her, not looking for confirmation that she is what I say she is just love showing off my new girl!


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## Carriana

Sarah~ said:


> I just think sometimes when people are trying to make their point that these dogs are extremely likely to show dog aggression their examples and descriptions become so extreme that it almost hurts the argument that these dogs should not be banned and are not monsters.


Many pit bull type dogs are dog aggressive to a degree. Many other dog breeds are dog aggressive - that doesn't make them monsters though. The issue with "Pit Bulls" are that the media and anti-pit bull folk try to draw the parallel between dog aggression and human aggression as though they are one and the same when they are not.

The skinny of it is that if you're not prepared to have a potentially dog aggressive dog and manage that dog responsibly then the APBT is probably not the dog for you.


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## shy

This was some great advice. Thanks


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## iluvmypup

Carriana said:


> Many pit bull type dogs are dog aggressive to a degree. Many other dog breeds are dog aggressive - that doesn't make them monsters though. The issue with "Pit Bulls" are that the media and anti-pit bull folk try to draw the parallel between dog aggression and human aggression as though they are one and the same when they are not.
> 
> The skinny of it is that if you're not prepared to have a potentially dog aggressive dog and manage that dog responsibly then the APBT is probably not the dog for you.


:goodpost:
CHIWAWAS ARE ARGRESSIVE! perfect example of any breed or sex of dog can be aggressive.

up: side bar idea: section for local dog park information, I would love to take my pup to a dog park near by. let her spin some donuts in the grass.


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## American_Pit13

iluvmypup said:


> :goodpost:
> CHIWAWAS ARE ARGRESSIVE! perfect example of any breed or sex of dog can be aggressive.
> 
> up: side bar idea: section for local dog park information, I would love to take my pup to a dog park near by. let her spin some donuts in the grass.


Did you read the first post? We are very much against taking dogs to dog parks for a variety of reasons, for any breed, so we would never add a section of dog park information.


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## KMdogs

iluvmypup said:


> :goodpost:
> CHIWAWAS ARE ARGRESSIVE! perfect example of any breed or sex of dog can be aggressive.
> 
> up: side bar idea: section for local dog park information, I would love to take my pup to a dog park near by. let her spin some donuts in the grass.


Someone didn't read anything here..

I'd read the entire thread page one to this post, if you don't question it you should post the exact area you live in so others can go ahead and gather information to legislation so that when something doesn't happen they are already prepared to go to meetings.. or leave town.


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## surfer

This should be a must read for bulldog owners.
Some bulldog owners feel like they dont owe anyone anything, when in reality we are carrying the burden of all the mistakes made so far.
A little humility goes a lonbg way in the publics' eye.

Yis


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## iluvmypup

I am a very responsible owner and I am not going to stop taking my dog with me or to places because people are afraid of what a pit bull might do. all dogs have the potential to attack or be aggressive. my dog rides with me every where, off and on the leash, never had one single incident thus far of my dog doing something. if I have to explain my dog isn't mean. so be it. I am scared of big dogs not just big pits. I would like a reassurance sometimes of the large "vicious" breeds that might appear to make me nervous. that goes the same with a little yapper at my feet going crazy. dog parks are for all dogs that's why the title "dog park" right? I don't see anything wrong with taking a pit that's known to be non aggressive to a dog park on the leash to socialize.. just my opinion. and I live in fresno ca in case someone does have some info on a local dog park.


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## redog

The only dog park info I have is don't go there. You are setting your dog up for something bad to happen. 1 incident and you lost every opportunity to portray your dog in a positive way. 1 incident and your dog is another statistic............


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## American_Pit13

iluvmypup said:


> I am a very responsible owner and I am not going to stop taking my dog with me or to places because people are afraid of what a pit bull might do. all dogs have the potential to attack or be aggressive. my dog rides with me every where, off and on the leash, never had one single incident thus far of my dog doing something. if I have to explain my dog isn't mean. so be it. I am scared of big dogs not just big pits. I would like a reassurance sometimes of the large "vicious" breeds that might appear to make me nervous. that goes the same with a little yapper at my feet going crazy. dog parks are for all dogs that's why the title "dog park" right? I don't see anything wrong with taking a pit that's known to be non aggressive to a dog park on the leash to socialize.. just my opinion. and I live in fresno ca in case someone does have some info on a local dog park.


Taking you dog places and taking a breed of dog that is prong to DOG AGGRESSION to a dog park to run loose ( which can trigger dog fights between dogs that are not dog aggressive) are 2 completely different things. Responsible owner and bully breed dog at a dog park don't go together.

Your setting your dog up to fail and the breeds all together will suffer because you to proud to realize the limits of the breed of dog you choose to own. You can have your opinion all you want but when something has been PROVEN time and time again and you choose to pay no attention to it that's just plain ignorance. I hope for the sake of your dog you never have to learn this as so many other people have and ended up loosing their animals.

BTW my dogs go into public to all kinds of places with me several times a week. Dog parks are not a place to socialize or prove anything about these dogs. It is nothing more than an accident waiting to happen that helps fuel BSL.


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## iluvmypup

I would never knowingly take my dog off the leash if I felt she couldn't handle it or be controlled. its not proud. but this is exactly why there is a horrible stigma to this breed. I would take my dog to a dog park to be around other dogs on the leash, I would take her off and let her run around with me or near me because she listens. if I felt like she would be able to handle it. I do it now around other dogs and other pits. she does just fine. when I feel like she about to get too excited or maybe a bigger dog that I don't know or trust to attack then here goes the leash. I don't see it as a pride. my dog goes every where with me.


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## American_Pit13

iluvmypup said:


> I would never knowingly take my dog off the leash if I felt she couldn't handle it or be controlled. its not proud. *but this is exactly why there is a horrible stigma to this breed. *I would take my dog to a dog park to be around other dogs on the leash, I would take her off and let her run around with me or near me because she listens. if I felt like she would be able to handle it. I do it now around other dogs and other pits. she does just fine. when I feel like she about to get too excited or maybe a bigger dog that I don't know or trust to attack then here goes the leash. I don't see it as a pride. my dog goes every where with me.


Yes this is why, because people don't listen, take these dogs to dog parks and one day a fight breaks out and guess what your pit type dog will get the blame no matter what and then because your dog hurt another dog it will be all over about another vicious "pitbull attack". Your dog is a puppy of course it doesn't show DA yet, but when it does there will not be a warning and your dog no matter what will be to blame.

I will not try to explain this any further, because if you don't care what people with 12-25+ years of experience in this breed KNOW about these dogs then your never going to care until it happens to you. Sad that your dog will be the one that pays for it.

Yes it is pride, you think you're right and refuse to listen to people who know a lot more than you about these dogs. Until you are proven wrong by your dog getting into a dog fight you are still going to think you know what you are talking about. As I said above, it is just sad that your dog is the one that will pay for it.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon

kids belong in parks not dogs. point blank, dog parks are a center for disease and stupidity. no thanks!


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## iluvmypup

not every pitbull is destined to attack. with that being said you are right you don't have to explain your opinion any further then feel you have. as stated in other threads this site is for opinions. as I stated it before, I still love it. and this is just my opinion. just like


Odin's_BlueDragon said:


> kids belong in parks not dogs. point blank, dog parks are a center for disease and stupidity. no thanks!


... opinions..


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon

ok, then dont come crying here when something goes wrong. i personally do not feel like putting my dogs life in the hands of strangers.


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## Christina87

*Good dogs*

I do have 5 dogs so they play with eachother a lot. IMO dog parks are horrible places for dogs just for the disease alone! Not to mention people never watch their "aggressive" golden retrievers or their "human guarding" 10lb. designer dog.


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## Christina87

This is a nice post


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## American_Pit13

iluvmypup said:


> not every pitbull is destined to attack. with that being said you are right you don't have to explain your opinion any further then feel you have. as stated in other threads this site is for opinions. as I stated it before, I still love it. and this is just my opinion. just like ... opinions..


You think it is an opinion, but it is proven fact. Had you bothered to read the thread maybe you would see that.

I think you need to learn the difference between opinions and proven fact. Actually sadly do to people like you it is repeatedly proven fact.


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## iluvmypup

ok with all the "people like you" and "your dog will be the one that pays" comments are your opinion. my dog is not a mean dog nor am I an irresponsible owner. and unless you have evidence that every pit attacks, I don't believe every pit attacks. if that's the case then what are we all doing here as dog owners and on this site? promoting the idea of every pit eventually attacks? im sure there is a percentage that they do but not ALL pits attack.


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## American_Pit13

iluvmypup said:


> ok with all the "people like you" and "your dog will be the one that pays" comments are your opinion. my dog is not a mean dog nor am I an irresponsible owner. and unless you have evidence that every pit attacks, I don't believe every pit attacks. if that's the case then what are we all doing here as dog owners and on this site? promoting the idea of every pit eventually attacks? im sure there is a percentage that they do but not ALL pits attack.


You seem to keep thinking I am saying your dog is aggressive, when that's not what I said. Maybe you should actually read this thread, PAY ATTENTION to what is said and then try to debate this. Also yes we very much on this site make sure people know about DOG AGGRESSION. Which is a trait of the APBT and many breeds that stem from. However HUMAN AGGRESSION is totally different, but you just seem to be using the word attacks as if DA means they are just aggressive dogs. You really need to go research this breed before you want to argue with people that have WAY more experience with these dogs then you. Especially when you think you know better then myself and the tons of others who have posted here if you had actually read the thread...

I doubt you will though, so being as you know so much more about these dogs then us you go on and enjoy your dog park.


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## PatienceFlame

iluvmypup said:


> not every pitbull is destined to attack..


 Have fun when your dog gets triggered by some unruly animal at the park and you have to not only swallow the embarrassment of breaking off a fight but giving this breed a further bad reputation. :stick:


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## KMdogs

Can't fix stoopid,, Let them learn the hard way if they want to believe the sheeple.. when your "pitty witty " ends up killing another animal or gets hurt by another, you may learn. you don't have an APBT any way that much is obvious


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## rabbit

I'm just so damn tired of people getting these dogs and not doing any research on them. Not only do they not know what they have but they have absolutely no idea how to properly care for them. It's almost like me just randomly going out and buying a truck with a diesel engine, which I have no use for, and then filling it up on some unleaded gas.


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## iluvmypup

ok every one jump on me. all I said this was my opinion, my dog is still a pup that Is why I am on this site for info on the breed, I am not stupid or illiterate, nor did I ever say I knew more about this breed then any of you. obviously, I am doing my research. but all the negativity, not one single person knows how or why I have this dog. and if she isn't apbt, oh well not every good looking dog on this site is apbt. but im done defending how I think to strangers that jumps on me for my ideology. good day.


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## redog

I was going to take a guess and say this is your first pit bull dog and its under 1 year old. It's ok if you take him to the park for now. Be up to date on everything from carona to parvovirus and rabies, and watch for those signs that they ALL eventually show. One way or the other, you won't be a fan of having non experienced pit bull dog owners at dog parks for long!  live and learn my gramps always said


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## Luna-Blue

Ya you guys need to chill out on all the generalizing banter. My 2cents and view on dog parks are that they are dirty and sadly too many people go there TO SOCIALIZE their dogs rather than taking their already socialized dog to a fun setting. I won't lie, I take my 5 month old female to the dog park 2x/month. But I am very careful and keep her on a leash even though the little girl doesn't show LICK of DA. Point is, I'm more worried about OTHER OWNERS and ignorant people...who seem to be procreating by the minute. 

Education people. No one should tell another where they can and can't take their dog to socialize. People need to stop generalizing. Just educate yourself and know the risks you take when entering any social situation. up:


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## American_Pit13

Luna-Blue said:


> But I am very careful and keep her on a leash even though the little girl doesn't show LICK of DA. *Point is, I'm more worried about OTHER OWNERS and ignorant people...who seem to be procreating by the minute*.
> 
> Education people. No one should tell another where they can and can't take their dog to socialize. People need to stop generalizing. Just educate yourself and know the risks you take when entering any social situation. up:


That is a big part of the issue with dog parks. Other owners who don't can't or will not control their dogs. I had a friend whose collie got tore apart by a guy's 2 labs. It's not just this breed. Setting dogs loose to run like that and with the lack of leadership most owners have it sets up an accident waiting to happen. I have seen far to many times people get their dogs injured by another dog. IMO if I can prevent my dog from getting harm I will. Combine with that when our dogs do defend themselves they do massive damage, are blame regardless of if they started it and people use these kinds of things to fuel BSL even though they are not Human attacks. The media just report it as another uncontrolled vicious "pit bull".

No one told her she could not go there, what irritates me is that she wanted to just brush off the knowledge that's been given in this thread as if it doesn't apply to her. You seem to be very aware of what can happen and are keeping your dog in a controlled situation (on leash) which is much different then a dog running loose.


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## surfer

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! had to go out and do some work, get back and all this is going on. from reading the thread i think LMP thinks your ganging up on her, i know thats not the case. its hard to help[educate] the ones that dont want any help.

the other day i posted in a thread about finding someone you could trust thats been involved with the dogs a lot longer than you, try to befriend them, and let them become your mentor. someone who when you have a question you can call for an answer. even if they dont know the answer, know how to go about finding the answer, boy, when i suggested that, it was I DONT NEED A MENTOR, I DONT NEED ANYONE.

well, let me tell you that attitude wont get you very far, think about it no one wants to be around anyone like that.

i've seen alot come and go, but the ones that have had dogs thru out, are the ones that care about the dogs as a whole. if this thread isnt going to get LMP to even think abouty her responsabilities to the breed maybe it will help some one else

like i said, kudos' to SADIE for such a well written thread.


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## redog

Common sense, don't play with fire, don't look down the barrel of a loaded gun, don't eat paint chips and don't take your pit bull dog to a dog park. Some folks have no common sense and you cant teach them anything, the education is here, take it or leave it. Just trying to avoid another one of those "dog park" threads


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## Luna-Blue

American_Pit13 said:


> That is a big part of the issue with dog parks. Other owners who don't can't or will not control their dogs. I had a friend whose collie got tore apart by a guy's 2 labs. It's not just this breed. Setting dogs loose to run like that and with the lack of leadership most owners have it sets up an accident waiting to happen. I have seen far to many times people get their dogs injured by another dog. IMO if I can prevent my dog from getting harm I will. Combine with that when our dogs do defend themselves they do massive damage, are blame regardless of if they started it and people use these kinds of things to fuel BSL even though they are not Human attacks. The media just report it as another uncontrolled vicious "pit bull".
> 
> No one told her she could not go there, what irritates me is that she wanted to just brush off the knowledge that's been given in this thread as if it doesn't apply to her. You seem to be very aware of what can happen and are keeping your dog in a controlled situation (on leash) which is much different then a dog running loose.


Totally agree. It erks me when I see people smiling and laughing when 2-3-4+ dogs are all chasing each other with no owner control whatsoever. Can't explain how many times a scuffle breaks out and people are like "awe" and brush it off. 

Quick story. A few weeks ago my pup Luna was playing with a 10 month old bully mix at the dog park. I had Luna on her leash and as always am chaperoning the play. After about 10 minutes of what I sought as acceptable play, the other dog started to get rough and was jumping on Luna in which she was lying on her back (in a playful submissive manner) Just as I was going to end play, the dog nuzzled in and lightly grabbed Luna by the neck. The dog was not thrashing or meaning to inflict harm but it is unacceptable play to me. The dog's owner was nearby but could not see what I was seeing, I immediately grabbed the his dogs snout and to my surprise (not really) his dog had locked down. I forcefully ripped the dogs mouth open with one hand prying on both top and bottom jaws, I was not gentle. He had a decent grip but I opened him up quick, and FORCEFULLY. The owner of the dog noticed my discontent and INTENT with his dog and came over and removed his dog. I made a comment, nice but stern, that they are done playing. Luna had no clue what had even happened and still wanted to play. Point of the story is, some "playmates" get a tad too comfortable and harmless can turn to harmful before you can blink an eye. Luckily, I had full control over my dog and the situation before his dog got a few broken ribs from my steel toe. I'm investing in a break stick after witnessing this little mishap.


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## surfer

you dont have to invest in a parting stick, an old handle,eg. rake, hoe, or a shovel will work you can get at least 4 sticks.

cut pieces 12-16 inches then cut slim end on fairly sharp angle scuff up the cut edge like we used to do with popsicle sticks so the edge isnt sharp, watch the grain in the wood cut so its the same way as the cut, and 'presto' you have sa parting stick.

whenever you take your dog anywhere you should ALWAYS carry a parting stick with you, just in case. if something does happen, your the hero for getting the situation under control.

as long as everything is kept in a civil manner this is good, being able to discuss an issue like adults. i think as LMP's dog gets older, she'll drift over to or side.

nothing was ever said about never being able to take your dog with you. what was implied was, even tho it may not be right, you have to care what other people think about your dog.


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## American_Pit13

What I care about are keeping the animals from harm. As an owner it is your duty to keep you pets safe from physical harm.


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## RebelFury76

The Dark Knight said:


> For me...it all depends. I've been taking my dog to the dog park since she was 3 months. So she was able to associate with all types of dogs growing up. So she does perfect with other dogs. I can fully trust her. The only issue I have to watch out for is when parents take their under 10 to the DOG PARK and decide to RUN...then Vixen sees them as moving targets to bump. Then I have to apologize to the parents for not watching their kids.
> 
> But now that she is older...I get more stares from people wanting me to keep my dog away from theirs. I was actually asked to leave a park last week cause we met up with friends at a park. They have a little boy so we hung out near the playground. Even though I never let my dog off leash...a parent came to me and told me I was making a few parents uncomfortable. All this while Vixen calmly sat and wagged her tail and looked at the lady with a smile expecting the lady to give her a pat on her head!
> 
> But if I take her to an area with more Latino/African Americans...she's popular


Should have told her that her ignorance was making you uncomfortable.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Dexter mom

I was so excited they recently opened a dog park in the town next to me so I thought it would be a great place to socialize my dogs. I have never been to a dog park my doxies can be on leash and meet dogs but I know off leash not a good idea in a group of dogs. I thought I could bring my new puppy but I wanted to research going to a park first. I am glad I did first and foremost I should have thought about what other dogs could be carrying. Second I am glad I learned about how pack behavior could affect my dog and cause a problem. I do not want to put my pit bull in any situation that could potentially make the breed look bad. It is so sad how people feel about them I would never want to add to that view point. I agree this does not just apply to pits but to all dogs. I love coming to these forums and learning from people who have a lot of experience it is a great way for me to learn about my dog.


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## stonerreakinhavok

redog said:


> Common sense, don't play with fire, don't look down the barrel of a loaded gun, don't eat paint chips and don't take your pit bull dog to a dog park. Some folks have no common sense and you cant teach them anything, the education is here, take it or leave it. Just trying to avoid another one of those "dog park" threads


you forgot the 2 most important piece of common sense don't wipe your ass with a cactus, and don't assume your dogs a cur.

When it comes down to it animals have free will while you might have your dog trained it only chooses to follow your direction, its not a sim where you can just continuously tell it what to do and completely override free will.

Ever have a dog hump your leg? FREE WILL


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## Artermix

Ha ha ha.....ALL true!!! I hate dog parks. I am surprised PETA does not pressure for changes in those places. Most of them are like huge soccer fields with chain link fences. IMHO are similar to freaking jail yards. No trees, bushes or some sort of equipment that could interest a dog. Not to mention that without shade it gets very hot in the summer. What an abuse on your dog. So stupid. I think taking your dog to a dog park makes your dog an imbecile.

As for pit bulls in dog parks....people see the breed before they see the dog...just like people see skin color first. Pre-conceptions are common place.


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## bridgetannette

Although I agree with the message this post conveys, i do take my "pit bull" to the dog park. I have 2 dogs and one i will not take but our female has been going since she was a puppy and she is very well trained. she is technically a bully not an apbt but as far as the public goes she might as well be. if she ever shows signs of dog aggression our trips will stop but we live in a small community and know everyone that goes there and their dogs on a personal level. I think you just have to know your dog and know how to read dogs in general. if you are a truly responsible pit bull owner then you should know if the dog park is a good fit for your dogs. i agree its not for every pit and that if you don't have 100% control over your dog you should take them, but i have changed so many minds with Mora. People who were terrified of pit bulls before meeting her have asked for play dates and even let their children play with her.


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## FurryCrew

I would never take any of my dogs (no matter what breed) to a dog park, the people are out of control. You can have several good friends who are knowledgable, responsible dog owners but still end up with chaos and dead dogs with one bad apple. 

I know of some friends whose mixed breed was nearly killed by 5 poodles in a dog park. The owners arms were torn to shreds while trying to protect their dog. The owner of the poodles took off as soon as they were able to get their dogs back in their car. 
Never checking on the other owner and (nearly dead) dog. The vet and ER bills were ridiculous. 

I used to go to a local dog park with my ex's American Bulldog. I was bullied by one or two regulars because they thought my boy was a pit, even though he was very well mannered and listened perfectly. After a few instances of a near dog fight when he was jumped by various dogs, I decided it wasn't worth the risk and set up private play dates with friends.

My dog is a rehabilitated rescue pit named 'Karma'. She is very well socialized now and I would never do anything that could end up with her hurt.


JennP


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## Kai

I would like to share a nice personal story about the dog park for all of the newbies coming onto gopitbull and reading this thread. Kai was my first "bully" breed dog. Although mixed and with no papers I knew his look alone would bring any negative BS. I learned that quickly once Kai started growing. Anyways, I was ignorant once and thought harm couldn't come from a dog park. Boy was I wrong. Unfortunately, for me it took several small experiences to learn why everyone on here votes against dog parks. I started to realize how many other dogs were very misbehaved and most of the owners never recognized their dogs negative behaviors. When Kai turned two his attitude changed. I like to say he became a man and was over taking any BS from any dog. Kai never displayed any aggression but I can tell from his body language he did not like some dogs behaviors especially ones that tried to hump him. One day someone had a dog that was a humper. He had humped two or three dogs before making his way over to Kai. I normally went to the dog park early in the day when there was one or two dogs but that day I went around 2pm. My mistake. Anyways, when this humper finally made his way to Kai I shooed him away because his crappy owner was an idiot and decided it was behavior that didn't need correcting. On the third try he ignored me and humped Kai. Kai turned around and let out a large growl/ High pitch bark. Honestly. I didn't even correct my dog because he was doing what dogs do. Correcting him. The owner came over and immediately started to call me a bi%^# and my dog and A hole. I remained calm and in my calmest voice asked them to please stop talking to me and refrain from letting their dog hump around. They proceeded to accuse my dog of attacking their their dog who was now too afraid to come back to the dog park. Kai NEVER has attacked a dog. Not even growl and I sure as hell would never bring him back if he did. That day was the first day that kai displayed any emotion besides happy go lucky at the dog park. What was even better is that I had only been to that dog park three times. Instantly I raised my voice because the couple would not stop calling me names and threatening me. Kai (at this time I'm holding his collar) starts to growl at the man coming up to me because he was swinging his arms and screaming. Lucky for me three other people at the dog park told them to leave and shut up. Later one revealed to me that my dog resembled a dog that has been a menace at the park for months. Then nice man said he told them that nor I or my dog were those two and that they were confused. In the end I realized two things: 1. Although my dog may be mixed or whatever me it, he is a dog and will react like one when someone's misbehaved dog comes around. Because of his looks it was my responsibility not to put him in that kind of risk or environment. 
2: humans are dumb. Not all but many. Because of this so many "accidents" happen that can be avoided. 

I found someone who has dogs that get along perfect with mine and we now schedule weekly dates for them to interact. In this environment I can control situations and easily correct them but I'm also not
Ignorant. If my dog was dog aggressive I would find any other way to "please" him than to take him to a dog park. 

I take my dog on long walks, hikes and swims which in reality is better for them anyways. 

Oh and he also got kennel cough from that lovely last visit to the dog park. (Yes he is vaccinated but a vaccination does not protect against all strains of the kennel cough) 

End result.....
DONT GO TO DOG PARKS

The. End.


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## FurryCrew

I completely agree with you when it comes to 'proper doggie behavior'. A growl is a warning, just because a dog is telling another the behavior is unacceptable, does not mean they are aggressive or going to try to kill them. Dogs are taught by their parents/siblings from a young age how to properly interact/greet a new dog. Which is the reason for leaving them until 8 weeks of age, even if they are weaned by 4 or 5 weeks. People that have happy-go-lucky dogs that jump on everyone is not a sign of being friendly, it's bad manners and will not be tolerated by the majority of dogs. Sadly, most people (including those that frequent a dog park) do not understand animal behavior or read body language.


JennP


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## ~StangChick~

I am just going to say that if you have a APBT there will be no warning. This is why we need to keep our dogs out of these parks so they don't get anymore bad publicity. You can not train genetics.


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## misty

I wouldn't take my pit bull or any dog for that matter to a dog park. My vet urges all her patients owners not to because of the mass amounts of illnesses that can be picked up there, yick. 
Tobee is only a baby, but already we're being careful with his exposure to other dogs. We used to take him to play with my sister's dogs but we quit. Her male dog got aggressive with Tobee one day and we haven't been back since. Tobee may be smaller now but he won't always be and I don't want to set him up to hurt another pup on accident...

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## toycrusier

Funny you should say that. A pit bull not a Golden Retriever. I am a 68 yr. old self employed carpenter. I have been doing a lot of work for an older lady that has a Golden Retriever. My pit bull boxer's name is Roxy and the lady's Golden Retriever's name is Roxy also. We both take our dog's to the local fairground's to walk, off leash, most of the time. I always look to see if it is reasonably safe to do so. (no other dogs within sight). But one day Roxy and Roxy met and got into a scuffle. No one got hurt bad. My Roxy just got a little nick behind the ear. But both Roxy's got to know and hate each other. 
Well, one day as we were pulling into the park, my Roxy had her head out the window and the other (Golden Retriever) Roxy was walking down the road. They saw each other and the fight was on. When the Golden Retriever Roxy jumped on the car I tried to push her away. That was a mistake. She bite the crap out of me on my wrist. Looked like a smiley face. Upper canines and lower teeth. 
Just saying ,Golden Retrievers are not to be taken lightly. But I think it was just in the heat of the moment, because the Golden Retriever is still my friend.


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## surfer

i dont know who stang knows, that owns,

'gamebred' dogs, but if i was you i would heed her advice,

she knows what she's talking about,

when it gets down to genetics, 
those genes are in there,

and the ones she knows, must have been doing it for generations...................


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## Marlee_the_Pittie

I used to take my oldest Marlee to the dog park, but it just ain't worth it. The stigma of having a "pit bull" alone is enough to make me steer clear. She has never initiated aggression towards other dogs, and was attending daycare three times a week before her injury. But if a dog attacks her aggressively, which has happened more than once, (well, always happens in general at the dog park as I can't recall a visit where I didn't see two dogs fighting or even worse a pack of dogs ganging up).. She will defend herself and get the blame no matter what. The last straw for me was when a dog attacked her at the park as we played fetch and she pinned the dog down and the owner screamed and cried out as if she thought her dog was about to be killed. Marlee is very obedient and I was able to get her off the dog, but then a group of people came chattering about "the black dog was the aggressor" meaning Marlee. Too many irresponsible dog owners go to dog parks, too many unattended dogs, too many people who don't understand dog behavior or signals. Not to mention the people who bring their kids (meaning 12 and under). Much rather take them on daily walks and find other ways to exercise them without the liability and putting up with the ignorance at dog parks.

I have to disagree though that "pit bulls" are genetically predisposed to being DA or aggressive in general. I have owned too many and interacted during my time volunteering at dog rescues to believe that.


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## DickyT

Marlee_the_Pittie said:


> I have to disagree though that "pit bulls" are genetically predisposed to being DA or aggressive in general. I have owned too many and interacted during my time volunteering at dog rescues to believe that.


A gamebred Pit Bull and a shelter mutt are different dogs. The dogs found in shelters and rescues are generally poorly bred and rejected for it or mixes, which dilutes that genetic predisposition.

A gamebred dogs lineage can be traced on both top and bottom (sire and dam) back to champion fighting dogs. Those dogs have been selectively bred with the lesser dogs culled for a couple hundred years to be DA with high prey drive. DA only, not HA.

I'm not saying that every gamebred Pit Bull is DA, but they are very much genetically predisposed to it.

And please do not misunderstand my use of "Shelter Mutt" either. My one and only dog is a shelter mutt and I love him just as much as those that keep old bloodlines true love theirs :woof:


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## Marlee_the_Pittie

DickyT said:


> A gamebred Pit Bull and a shelter mutt are different dogs. The dogs found in shelters and rescues are generally poorly bred and rejected for it or mixes, which dilutes that genetic predisposition.
> 
> A gamebred dogs lineage can be traced on both top and bottom (sire and dam) back to champion fighting dogs. Those dogs have been selectively bred with the lesser dogs culled for a couple hundred years to be DA with high prey drive. DA only, not HA.
> 
> I'm not saying that every gamebred Pit Bull is DA, but they are very much genetically predisposed to it.
> 
> And please do not misunderstand my use of "Shelter Mutt" either. My one and only dog is a shelter mutt and I love him just as much as those that keep old bloodlines true love theirs :woof:


But aren't only 3% of Pit Bulls bred for fighting? And wouldn't someone purchasing a dog with such lineage be aware of their predisposition?


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## DickyT

I am not talking about dogs bred for fighting. I also don't believe any media published statistic either. Even if the number was .5% the American Pit Bull Terrier ("gamebred" not fighting dog, though the ones bred for that purpose are usually gamebred) is predisposed to be DA

I am talking about gambred dogs of old bloodlines. Many today do not fight them and use them in other working methods because of their intelligence and high drive (both prey and working drive). Weight pulling, hog hunting, agility, schutzhund, etc. We have several breeders, and breed preservationists on this site that do just that.

And yes, you would hope that someone purchasing such a dog would have been informed by the breeder of the dogs lineage. Also the breeders of these dogs are usually very selective on who they let them go to, if they let them go at all. Many of them breed just to better their own stock of working dogs.

Shelter dogs still have that genetic coding in them, quite often it will never become a dominant trait due to the mixing involved in producing the shelter dog. I also have seen many "Pit Bulls" (not gamebred) that for their entire lives got along with all creatures great and small. I have seen the other side too, ones that were obviously not a purebred dog of any sorts, obviously heavy in bulldog blood, and very DA.

But it is there in all of them, and if it does surface the best you can do is manage it. There is no training it out.


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## seamus44

The thing I hate about dog parks is when the other owner sees me tighten the leash on my dog but still keeps theirs off the leash walking past mine. The number of times I have had to ask them to leash their dog near mine like they think im gripping his leash extra tight for fun.
Trouble with my boy is if a dog off leash is within biting distance he gives no warning, he doesnt growl or hunkers up just attacks. If the other dog is far away my boy puffs out and his neck grows like a giraffe and you see the intensity and lust in him to get to the other dog but still no growling. 
Funnily enough he is okay with bitches in general for a minute trying it on until he figures they don't want riding off him (hes a proper poon hound) then he gets nasty. With dogs he knew as a pup hes okay but I wouldn't trust him off leash with them and dogs he doesn't know he doesn't want to get know.
Ive given up on taking him around strange dogs and dog parks, tbh he prefers his human pack anyway and his feline big sister.


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## TeamCourter

seamus44 said:


> The thing I hate about dog parks is when the other owner sees me tighten the leash on my dog but still keeps theirs off the leash walking past mine. The number of times I have had to ask them to leash their dog near mine like they think im gripping his leash extra tight for fun.
> 
> Trouble with my boy is if a dog off leash is within biting distance he gives no warning, he doesnt growl or hunkers up just attacks. If the other dog is far away my boy puffs out and his neck grows like a giraffe and you see the intensity and lust in him to get to the other dog but still no growling.
> 
> Funnily enough he is okay with bitches in general for a minute trying it on until he figures they don't want riding off him (hes a proper poon hound) then he gets nasty. With dogs he knew as a pup hes okay but I wouldn't trust him off leash with them and dogs he doesn't know he doesn't want to get know.
> 
> Ive given up on taking him around strange dogs and dog parks, tbh he prefers his human pack anyway and his feline big sister.


Why would you even take your dog to the dog park? It's a dog park and there is bound to always be dogs off leash, walk somewhere else like people with this breed should.

Edit: Just saw that you said you have given up on dog parks, it's for the best,


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## seamus44

TeamCourter said:


> Why would you even take your dog to the dog park? It's a dog park and there is bound to always be dogs off leash, walk somewhere else like people with this breed should.
> 
> Edit: Just saw that you said you have given up on dog parks, it's for the best,


 I took him to dog parks in the misguided attempt to override his DNA. I now fully and totally understand that it is in his genetic makeup to be DA and no amount of me trying to train it or prise it out him is going to work. I would never trust him around another dog or bitch on his own because he is what he is. That said, I know I shouldn't say this but around humans I would trust him 110%. Given the choice id take DA over HA any day.


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## pittieparty

The last time I had dogs to speak of, ended as a teenager when I left for college. 36 years ago. What a different world. No leashes, no poo pick-up, no spaying/neutering...We had dogs three at a time, shepherd, shephard-mixes and dobermans (the maligned pit bulls of that generation). Well, maybe some people used leashes. But ours galloped down Chicago streets to the park. I was amused by the young men leaping on top of parked cars as we passed. A lot of power for a ten year old. Dogs were corner-trained, sat still at the corner until I told them "cross". Lots of dogs at the park, could catch the dog party every day at 5 or 6:00, and again at 10pm. Not dog parks, no fences, just the green place where dogs and their owners converged. They ran and played, occasionally they fought, sometimes they got stuck together and that's how puppies were somehow made. My dogs never fought with anyone at the park, and I was never nervous. It was so relaxed. I miss those days.

A few decades later, trying to do right by my long-term foster pit who fell into my life, I've been hypervigilant, never comfortable, reading every moment with every dog, leaving quick when it gets high energy or doesn't feel right, wondering, is it because it's a more uptight world, is it because he's a pit and no matter what it will be his fault, is it because he could do real damage if things did go south, do I fear he is less stable because he has his testicles even though they all did back in my day...For whatever reasons, I just really don't know what might happen, and I really don't know what my foster dog might do, and I was getting more uncomfortable without real reason. Except that by age three, I've watched him become a dog bully, who doesn't know how to play anymore--chase, bump, roll, growly even to submissive dogs. So I quit going. 

And then, we came upon a large, unneutered American Bulldog in an empty lot, he attacked, it was a nightmare. And he attacked my other foster pit (who's gone, now). 

As I got more involved in his care, took him into my home, I began reading. But not until this site did I find it spelled out that the breed is dog aggressive, that's just how it is for a whole lot of them. I thought they were taught to fight each other, not born wanting to. I did not know that this breed should never be at the dog park because of their innate unreliability. I thought it was his testicles, or my paranoia. (Though I always strove to have calm, assertive energy.)

Reading people who say, they strike without warning...What I feared. I avoid dogs scrupulously, now, even though in calm situations, he's absolutely fine, 99% of the time. I live in fear of when that 1% might happen.

It is a relief to have it spelled out, though. I know it's irritating to the people here who already know, and think people with pits should have done their research. (Not that I ever meant to take one on.) I read a lot on the 'net, it's a controversial subject, and I just didn't get it. It's a relief to just accept that it's a dog aggressive breed, and it's just about management. So, y'all are doing good work, here, even you cranky ones. :clap:

Sorry I'm so long winded.


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## Lokipup

I know this is old, but...I don't think dog aggression is a DNA related issue. Genetic predisposition doesn't take "several generations", it takes many hundreds and thousands years. It's basically evolution. Feeding your dogs grass only for generations won't make it an herbivore. Just like not all pitbulls were in dog fights, only a certain percentage. Not to mention how many were bred with other breeds.


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## jttar

Lokipup said:


> I know this is old, but...I don't think dog aggression is a DNA related issue. Genetic predisposition doesn't take "several generations", it takes many hundreds and thousands years. It's basically evolution. Feeding your dogs grass only for generations won't make it an herbivore. Just like not all pitbulls were in dog fights, only a certain percentage. Not to mention how many were bred with other breeds.


I realize from reading this and your other two posts that you are inexperienced with APBT's. However, your statements in this post are flat out wrong. 
You rescued your pup from the street before it was put into a shelter. You don't know it's lineage and therefore you don't know what breed of dog you really have. It is most likely a mutt that may or may not have bully in it. 
There is only one breed of American Pit Bull Terrier. Not all bully type dogs are pit bulls. This is a very common mistake and the masses use the term "pit" incorrectly. There are several bull dog types but only one PitBull.
The real APBT were bred and raised for one purpose -- fighting dogs. That gene remains in EVERY true APBT. 
I would suggest you spend some time reading and educating yourself about the breed and it's genetics. If you still have questions just post them and there is always someone here that will try their very best to help.
Best of luck with your new pup. How about posting a little about yourself in the Introduction section of the forum and throw in some pictures pf Loki.

Joe


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## Lokipup

I just posted an intro and here is an attachment of a pic


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## Lokipup

*More Loki*

Loki. While I am new to pet ownership and APBT's, it doesn't mean that I haven't done my research nor that I am irresponsible. I see plenty of people getting pitbulls as some sort of status fixtures, then lock them up in the yard for days. The vet said he looks like a bluenose APBT and all the pics definitely look like an APBT (not to mention that my SO had a pit). Yes, people have used them for fighting, but the gamey spirit comes from them being terriers, not because some people decided to make money off of pitting them against each other. I'm just saying that for the DNA to be changed it takes a whole longer time than a 100 years.


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## jttar

Great pic of Loki. What a sweet face. Couldn't be cuter.

Joe


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## Lokipup

Thank you! He is truly a sweetheart and people are surprised that he has learned so much. He now sits by himself when I'm about to feed him, he shakes hand, lays down on command (sometimes when he wants a treat he'll come up to me and pull out the whole bag of treats, haha), he sits down most of the time by himself when crossing the road, sits down by himself before exiting the door. He is a very smart pup and he is passed out next to me right now after a long walk


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## 3fetchers

I take my girls when there is no one around. If the park is empty we go in. If there are dogs, then we go to the levee and I work them there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## jttar

Lokipup said:


> Loki. While I am new to pet ownership and APBT's, it doesn't mean that I haven't done my research nor that I am irresponsible. I see plenty of people getting pitbulls as some sort of status fixtures, then lock them up in the yard for days. The vet said he looks like a bluenose APBT and all the pics definitely look like an APBT (not to mention that my SO had a pit). Yes, people have used them for fighting, but the gamey spirit comes from them being terriers, not because some people decided to make money off of pitting them against each other. I'm just saying that for the DNA to be changed it takes a whole longer time than a 100 years.


I can only suggest, again, to learn about the breed. Your statements only show your lack of knowledge about the APBT. Just to touch it lightly, there is no such thing as a "Bluenose APBT". That is a term that BYB's use to try to impress potential buyers into buying one of their mutts (dogs without known lineage). The term blue ONLY describes the color of the dogs nose. It is not a bloodline.
Some people did not just "use" them for fighting. The dog was bred for fighting dogs and to not have human aggression. 
I am not going to argue your point when you obviously need to spend some time researching the APBT origin and it's transformation when it came to America. I also am not going to allow untruths to be told like they are facts.

Joe


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## Lokipup

I know that it is not a breed but a color. Not need to be condescending and I am aware that it's a color and not a breed. I used the term loosely. Btw, a pitbull is a combination of terrier and a bulldog, and people have been mixing them with all sorts of bully breeds- English Bulldogs, Mastiffs, etc. I have read ALOT about the breed, so no need for patronizing. I feel great that my little guy is in a loving home, and that is what it matters. I didn't pay huge bucks from some backyard ******, nor did I pay even bigger bucks to get some elite purebred, or whatever. You can call him a mutt, but he is my baby and you can take your elitist attitude elsewhere. I don't care if he is a full blood pit or not, he didn't come with a DNA and a ton of paperwork. Some ****** threw him out in the park where he almost got hit by a car. There, please take your attitude elsewhere- this is a reason why I haven't joined any APBT groups. They are filled with elitists who talk about these dogs like they are IPhones.


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## raemei

Hello! I've been reading this discussion and I'm starting to wonder what the generally accepted idea is around the breed American Staffordshire Terrier. I've read a few different angles regarding their history, but mostly I thought that it was believed that their fighting history was "bred out". Is dog aggression still something that is believed to be in their DNA though?


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## EckoMac

raemei said:


> Hello! I've been reading this discussion and I'm starting to wonder what the generally accepted idea is around the breed American Staffordshire Terrier. I've read a few different angles regarding their history, but mostly I thought that it was believed that their fighting history was "bred out". Is dog aggression still something that is believed to be in their DNA though?


Am Staff is a different breed of dog now. They have been bred for the show ring and conformation more then anything else. Is there still a chance of DA? Absolutely. It is better to accept that it could happen, then to assume that it won't.


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## David_W

Such a true story


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## angela w

*did u say dog park*

I really enjoyed this post, this is a great site i really like that folks dont down you for asking questions or treat u crap when u are looking for solutions. ive seen on other site ppl say stuff like "if you dont know what u r doing then u shouldnt have a pit bull"..... i love my dogs because of how they treat me in return, they love me they respect me and they have always been there for me like emotionally, and i do the same for them. I have never told anyone this but i have taken my guys to the dog park but like someone else said it was an odd hour noone in site n i had my husband stand guard at the gate to ask that person to please let me gather my dogs n exit first so they could experience it without being set up for failure.Although noone ever showed up while we were there My babies deserve to have fun to n go places to i just make sure it is as safe as it can be and try not to put them in a stressful situation on purpose. we have only been to a dog park a few times. we also do the pet store once in a while to buy our treats in bulk n pick a pair or one of our 4 to go but we have to be cautious, ppl like to stop n stare or if they have a pit as well they want to chk out eachothers dog but i always take my husband when i take trips like this out like a buddy system incase i need to remove my babbies out of a situation that could be stressful unnessarly , like checking out at register then u get another family behind you with there dog, i just ask my husband to continue out to car with our dog. cause the main purpose was that our dog got to get out in public n socialize. Again i just love your post it was very well said thank you so much for your input. I have learned alot along the way and continue to everyday, for me its just really having a good relationship with my dogs understanding them and doing things in a controlled manner and thanks to all the great posts i have learned alot just since ive been a member here on GOPITBULL. Thanks Everyone you guys are awesome.....:roll:


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## jttar

Happy that you like the forum and are learning along the way angela w. Hope to see more of your posts in the future.

Joe


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## Johnny2x2x

My Am Staff APBT mix rescue Bella cannot go to the dog park, the problem I am having is any socialization at all. We practice avoidance on our daily walks with varying degrees of success. It amazes me how many people do not leash their dogs in our city. At least once a week a strange dog will come running up to her with clueless owners not far behind yelling not to worry, their dog is friendly. Well, my dog is excitable and if your dog shows aggression towards her you're dog is going to get hurt.

She has 1 dog friend, a very sweet old APBT named Dugan. He's a total doofus and lets her push him around. Our boxer passed last year and he was like her big brother, but was also a bit submissive to her. So now, outside of seeing Dugan once or twice a month for a few hours she doesn't get interaction with other animals. 

My instinct is to try to fix her with more socialization, but maybe avoidance is the only answer. She's literally the perfect dog save for her interactions with other dogs. Just an absolute angel to own, does literally nothing wrong and is full of affection and love. We found her at a rescue after she had been found on the street, her owner was found but didn't want her back and said she ran away a month before(I know this dog, she wouldn't run away, he had to have dumped her), so she likely lived on the street for a few weeks. So it's possible she hunted to feed herself, because she is very prey driven when it comes to birds and cats. She's been a fairly successful bird hunter in our back yard. And she is just dying to get her teeth into one of the stray cats in the neighborhood. With that in mind I am extremely concerned with smaller dogs meeting her.

What success stories do people have with socialization at this stage? She is 3-1/2. I'm very vigilant and keep her out of risky situations, but I know that some day some small dog is going to come running up to her yipping and if no one is right there to stop her that will be the end of that dog.


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## jttar

Welcome to the forum Johnny2x2x. Goodfellas fan? 

It sounds like you have a good handle on what is best for Bella and I would encourage you to keep up the good work. We all run into those poor excuses for dog owners who assume that their dog wants to be your dogs friend. Worse are the ones who let their dogs roam without leashes because they think everyone want to interact with their special dog. 
Ideally, you could socialize Bella with other dogs and they could run, play and tire each other out. However, you and most of us here know that with bully breeds that isn't always possible. You are being diligent in training her to avoid other dogs if you feel she is going to attack the dog that comes at here barking. I had one that would NEVER start a fight but would always finish it if a dog went after her first. No matter which dog starts the fight the Bully breed is going to be blamed, we know this. 
The good news is if Bella doesn't get along with other dogs, it's OK. She will be happy to be with her people pack. There are just some dogs that don't need dog companionship and would prefer not to have it. 
Hope you stick around here. It seems you are the responsible type owner we encourage other members to be.

Joe


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## Johnny2x2x

Thanks jttar. Nickname was given to me by an old friend.

We're going to do our best to socialize Bella, we're seeking professional help. So amazing how different she is with humans, even kids, than she is with dogs. She is the most submissive dog with any person including our little nephew who walks right up and takes her ball away from her. But any 4 legged animal she thinks she is the boss of.


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## guitarplayer66

i used to take my last pitbull to the local dog park, he was large and i could see that people were intimidated by him. i completely understand that. with that boy they could not have been more wrong. he was the most laid back dog in the park, every time. the only time he ever even barked at another dog was when he saw another large breed dog (i can't recall the breed, but not a pitbull) attack his brother (large german shepherd).
i will see how things go with my puppy as she grows up until i decide if i will take her there or not.


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## Cynthia C.

*New PB Grammy*

Hello All,

I've come to the forum today because I just returned from my local dog park and am still jittery and concerned about my new grandoggie Lola. She has come to my home because my daughter's landlord would not allow her to keep Lola, as she is considered a "restricted breed". (My daughter adopted her at 6mos of age from a kill shelter. She is now 14 mos old, and a really sweet strong girl.)

I've raised dogs big and small, my entire life and am not a newbie on the canine front, but I find I need to get up to speed on the PBT front.

Lola walks very well on a leash and plays well with other dogs as long as they aren't submissive. Today at the off-leash dog park, she fixated on this one golden retriever that was very submissive. I intervened and took her out for "cooling off period". We then re-entered the dog park, and bam, she went right for the same dog, and clamped her mouth around her neck/collar. I yelled and stepped in again, only this time, it seemed that Lola didn't/couldn't hear me, and her eyes weren't seeing at me at all. I broke her hold, and we left the dog park.

I felt terrible, also, as if we were criminals in the eyes of the other dog owners (I'm not used to seeing fear in the eyes of others when they look at my dogs). I am now wondering: is it possible to "train" this behavior out of Lola, or is it that we cannot go back to any dog park? Help! And thank you!


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## DynamicDuo

Cynthia C. said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I've come to the forum today because I just returned from my local dog park and am still jittery and concerned about my new grandoggie Lola. She has come to my home because my daughter's landlord would not allow her to keep Lola, as she is considered a "restricted breed". (My daughter adopted her at 6mos of age from a kill shelter. She is now 14 mos old, and a really sweet strong girl.)
> 
> I've raised dogs big and small, my entire life and am not a newbie on the canine front, but I find I need to get up to speed on the PBT front.
> 
> Lola walks very well on a leash and plays well with other dogs as long as they aren't submissive. Today at the off-leash dog park, she fixated on this one golden retriever that was very submissive. I intervened and took her out for "cooling off period". We then re-entered the dog park, and bam, she went right for the same dog, and clamped her mouth around her neck/collar. I yelled and stepped in again, only this time, it seemed that Lola didn't/couldn't hear me, and her eyes weren't seeing at me at all. I broke her hold, and we left the dog park.
> 
> I felt terrible, also, as if we were criminals in the eyes of the other dog owners (I'm not used to seeing fear in the eyes of others when they look at my dogs). I am now wondering: is it possible to "train" this behavior out of Lola, or is it that we cannot go back to any dog park? Help! And thank you!


The answer to your question is no. These dogs don't belong in a dog park as dog aggression is a part of their genetic make up and may or may not come out "to play" with the other dogs. It's nothing something that can be trained out and anyone who tells you different is misleading you. It can be managed but it is never a good idea to take one of these dogs to a dog park.


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## Cynthia C.

*How to socialize*

Thank you for the info - it's clear to me now that she has an instinctual drive. But how to socialize? She's still a puppy (at 14 mos) and I know she would so like to play with some of the other dogs we see on our daily walks. I'm hyper vigilant now, so I basically don't allow her to interact with anyone or dog, unless the owner comes over and engages her.

So how do you suggest she get some doggie playtime? Or is that something PBT's don't need?


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## DynamicDuo

No dog needs doggie playtime. That's something we as humans project onto our dogs. It's a human need, not a canine need. Dogs need their people. Quality time spent with you pup daily training, walking, playing, and snuggling along with proper food and care are all your dog needs to be a happy pet. Notice I said quality not quantity. Work on obedience training, teach her tricks, play a game of fetch or tug...those are the activities she needs. Not playgroups. I hope that helps.


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## Cynthia C.

*Socialization*



Johnny2x2x said:


> Thanks jttar. Nickname was given to me by an old friend.
> 
> We're going to do our best to socialize Bella, we're seeking professional help. So amazing how different she is with humans, even kids, than she is with dogs. She is the most submissive dog with any person including our little nephew who walks right up and takes her ball away from her. But any 4 legged animal she thinks she is the boss of.


I've just come upon your post - I am new to the forum and new to PBT. I have a beautiful 14 mos old grandoggie named Lola who has come to live with me. I've quickly realized that the dog park is not a good idea for her. But how to socialize? I'm curious to know if you've had some success with Bella. Thank you.


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## Cynthia C.

> No dog needs doggie playtime. That's something we as humans project onto our dogs. It's a human need, not a canine need. Dogs need their people. Quality time spent with you pup daily training, walking, playing, and snuggling along with proper food and care are all your dog needs to be a happy pet. Notice I said quality not quantity. Work on obedience training, teach her tricks, play a game of fetch or tug...those are the activities she needs. Not playgroups. I hope that helps.


Thank you! I was wondering about that - whether she is lonely or not. She spends all her time with me, and seems quite happy.


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## irvinpinto

*My dog park learning experience: It's just not worth it*

So I've been keeping an eye on this thread for a while and I thought I'd add my dog park experience with my APBT Saphira
First some history on Saphira: She was abandoned at 6 months of age by dog fighters after being used as puppy bait, before going to a foster home and meeting me when I adopted her at a year old. During her time at the foster home, she got along really well with the dogs there, except with a male Pitbull she didn't quite like. Fast forward to July 2018, where I took Saphira to the dog park for her usual morning playtime with the local dogs. We live right opposite to the park so I thought it wouldn't hurt to see what would happen if we went there. For the past 3 months, we had zero negative incidents. Saphira got along well with all the large dogs there though I always followed her like a hawk and was quick to diffuse any situation that I thought was building up. 
Any way, back to July of 2018, and Saphira is at the park playing with a black labrador and a GSD, when this elderly man with two rambunctious labradoodles arrives. Saphira has played with his dogs before, so I wasn't overly cautious, however I still followed her to the gate of the park to make sure she greeted them well. The older of the labradoodles began to bark aggressively at her as he came up to the gate and Saphira immediately went on the defensive, hunkering down and barking back. I motioned to the elderly man to give me a moment while I got her on leash, so they wouldn't get at each others necks when his dogs got in. He ignored me and proceeded to open the gate of the park, and his black labradoodle ran up to Saphira and snapped at her face, and started swiping her violently with his paws. Saphira broke free of my hold, charged the labradoodle and bit into his paw. The elderly man lost his cool and started swearing at me as I tried desperately to separate the dogs. Saphira went back on my leash and the man calmed down. We checked his dog and he seemed fine, and he even told me to get saphira off her leash so they could run around again. I said nothing doing and proceeded to leave the park. The owners of the black lab and the GSD were kind enough to tell me it wasn't my fault, and that they'd vouch for me in case anything were to happen further down the road. I got a call from Animal control 3 days later telling me that the dog had indeed been injured, and that the owner pretty pissed. Needless to say, I did not go back to that park. A couple of days pass and I'm walking Saphira near the park when the same owner drives in, gets out of his truck and starts threatening to sue men and call the cops if I don't pay him for the vet bills. I politely refuse since two others saw what had happened and had all reminded him that morning that had he only waited till I had gotten my dog away, there wouldn't have been a fight in the first place. Anyway, I ignored the man's threats and went about my business. A month later, a friend of mine from the park meets me outside on one of our walks and asks us why we don't come to the park anymore. I relay the incident to her and give her the names of the dogs that the guy owned to see if she knew him. She suddenly turned a tad pale and told me that he was the same guy who racially abused a dog owner a few weeks ago, made threats about shooting people and made other racially charged profanities at individuals in the past. As I met more and more people from the park, at least a handful of them had bad experiences with the same guy who they said refused to control his dogs, falsely paraded them as service animals and talked back at people who told him they weren't. Needless to say I never went back to the dog park again. A couple of lessons learnt
1. It may not be your Pittie's fault in a fight, but he/she will almost always be blamed
2. Not every dog at a dog park is well behaved
3. Not every human at a dog park is well behaved

I refuse to use a dog park simply because of the effect that morning had on Saphira. She is afraid of black dogs since then and she's showing more and more DA though it is selective. While I dont doubt that her selective DA wouldn't have reared its head sooner or later, I think dog parks are too big of a risk to APBT owners. Saphira and I escaped with just a light rap on our knuckles. From what I've read here, it could be a lot worse.


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## sergio87

Although we can escape to the park whenever we can, we are more of practicing sports as a family. Where our dogs do not always accompany if this activity does not involve too much risk. For example, last week we went rock climbing after shopping at this climbing accessories store. The truth is that we had a great time.


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## Vagullion

DynamicDuo said:


> The answer to your question is no. These dogs don't belong in a dog park as dog aggression is a part of their genetic make up and may or may not come out "to play" with the other dogs. It's nothing something that can be trained out and anyone who tells you different is misleading you. It can be managed but it is never a good idea to take one of these dogs to a dog park.


What????
I came to this forum and another specifically to get help and tips because my boy is not listening to me when other dogs are around and I am sick of the prejudiced people telling me to put a cruel muzzle him on the street. I have been having a devil of a time keeping him under control. He was fine until a month ago when he hit 10 months. I just assumed that was adolescence kicking in. I went through it with my lab years ago, just not to this degree and I wanted to nip it in the bud. We have a lot of family get together's and lots of acreage so usually everyone can just let them off leash to have fun together. But that has been impossible.

I was told as long as you train him and socialize him properly, he was going to be fine with everyone and other dogs. I thought the "born animal aggressive" nonsense was just something the fanatics who hate bully Breeds make up because the unfavorable media???


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## EckoMac

Vagullion said:


> What????
> I came to this forum and another specifically to get help and tips because my boy is not listening to me when other dogs are around and I am sick of the prejudiced people telling me to put a cruel muzzle him on the street. I have been having a devil of a time keeping him under control. He was fine until a month ago when he hit 10 months. I just assumed that was adolescence kicking in. I went through it with my lab years ago, just not to this degree and I wanted to nip it in the bud. We have a lot of family get together's and lots of acreage so usually everyone can just let them off leash to have fun together. But that has been impossible.
> 
> I was told as long as you train him and socialize him properly, he was going to be fine with everyone and other dogs. I thought the "born animal aggressive" nonsense was just something the fanatics who hate bully Breeds make up because the unfavorable media???


Unfortunately it is not. These dogs all sten from the American Pit Bull Terrier who was bred to be dog aggressive. So most bull breeds have a genetic predisposition to be dog aggressive. Does it happen to all? No, but it should be a consideration when selecting a pet. While you can't train out dog aggression, you CAN in most cases train them to ignore or focus on something other then other dogs. A leave it command is a good place to start. When your family comes over and brings their dogs, just take your dog for a nice long walk ahead of time and kennel them with their favorite treat instead of trying to control him while the others run around the property.It's best to set them up to succeed as often as possible.


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## jttar

Vagullion said:


> What????
> I was told as long as you train him and socialize him properly, he was going to be fine with everyone and other dogs. I thought the "born animal aggressive" nonsense was just something the fanatics who hate bully Breeds make up because the unfavorable media???


Do some research on your own and disregard what untruths you have been told by people who sincerely don't know what they are talking about if that is the advice they gave you. Do your dog a huge favor and keep it far away from dog parks.

Joe


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## ReichertCaleb

Think carefully before keeping more dogs in the house. If you are planning to bring more members home, you need to consider a few factors first to ensure that you are able to live with multiple dogs at the same time. Each puppy will require additional time and effort to feed, clean, train, play, as well as an additional fee. Also, in the event that one dog behaves incorrectly, it can lure in another, causing you to face both stubborn dogs. You should also pay attention to the needs of the current dog; If you are an old dog and do not like puppies in the home due to weakness or illness, this is not the right time to raise more pets in the house.


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