# Some people have to learn the hard way...



## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

I answered a call today from a man that was extremely distraught. He was so frantic on the phone, it took a minute for me to understand his story. Long story short, he got a female pit bull puppy. He has become very attached to her. He decided to breed her to make some extra money despite several people warning him against it. She went into labor on Saturday and she couldn't get the puppies out so he had to pull them out. All 4 puppies were stillborn. Now he's convinced there's a puppy still inside her. i told him to take her to a full service vet immediately. He told me he couldn't afford to take her to a vet. I asked if he could take her temperature and he said he didn't know how to do that. Atlanta Bully Rescue is going to help cover the cost for her to get spayed tomorrow just in case there is a puppy stuck. Over and over again he kept telling me he wished he had listened to people that warned him of this and breeding her was the dumbest thing he's ever done. I asked if she was up to date on rabies and of course he said he hadn't been able to afford to keep her up to date on vaccines, It blows my mind that people can't afford basic care for their pets but they think they can afford to breed them. 


Just because you think your dog is awesome doesn't mean for a second you should breed them. Do you know how many awesome dogs there are that are going to be euthanized tomorrow because there is simply no room for them??? And if you think you're going to make money think again. Especially with pit bulls, so many people have no idea how commonly they need C-sections. A pregnant bitch needs constant vet care and there's a good chance complications could end her life. Before you even think about breeding your dog spend a day at animal control. Look the hundreds of dogs that will most likely have to be euthanized in the eyes and try to explain why your dog deserves to be bred but they deserve to die.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Great posting. I don't agree that C-sections are common in the breed however birthing issues happen. I am not against all breeding or responsible breeding, but random breeding with out knowing what you are getting into causes 1000's of stories similar to this.


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

American_Pit13 said:


> Great posting. I don't agree that C-sections are common in the breed however birthing issues happen. I am not against all breeding or responsible breeding, but random breeding with out knowing what you are getting into causes 1000's of stories similar to this.


I've heard lots of stories, like in this guy's case, that a lot of backyard breeders will breed a 40 lbs pit bull with a 80+ lbs ambully. Maybe I should have said c-sections are common in these dogs bred by backyard breeders that have no idea what they are doing.


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

You must be a very strong person to do what you do and maintain a civil tongue in your head. People just make me so sick. How can you not afford basic care like rabies shots and think you should even own a dog - let alone breed!?!

Our Maggie is a rescue that was bred and then abandoned before she ended up at the shelter. They estimated her age at about 18 months at the time and she'd already produced at least one litter. No idea what happened to her pups. 

Thank goodness that you're helping this moron (actually helping the dog) with a subsidized spay. Poor pup.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Atlanta Bully Rescue said:


> I've heard lots of stories, like in this guy's case, that a lot of backyard breeders will breed a 40 lbs pit bull with a 80+ lbs ambully. Maybe I should have said c-sections are common in these dogs bred by backyard breeders that have no idea what they are doing.


It is so sad to see people who take no consideration in health when breeding. I started as a BYB with unpapered dogs, but I recognized health issues, and at least cared about structure and what was produced. Doesn't make it right, but its a shame to see so many that don't even consider these simple things when breeding.

Not matter the breed this is an over all dog issue. Breeding a dog for what they want, with the sacrifice of structure or health as well as the lack of ability to handle what they create.

I was super lucky to never have an issue when I was young and bred dogs. However as the years have passed and I have seen friends and just dog people I know have serious issues and loose their dogs over a litter it really makes you think about what breeding's you are going to consider doing.


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## FamilyLinePits (May 18, 2010)

I think the biggest issue is that people actually believe there is money to be made from Breeding... Maybe there is for BYB's, But for responsible breeders, Most profits go right to the dogs well being and treatment.

Even though I didn't realize it at the time, I started out as a BYB... My dogs were registered, But I wasn't searching for perfect mates. Now we spend months, even years searching for the perfect mate for a dog, Check health records and get clean bills of health before a breeding, etc. Hell, I've been looking for the perfect male for my female for 9 months now, And haven't found the perfect dog yet. We have been breeding for 4 years now, And have only had 2 litters. Its not about the money, But about bettering the breed.

People need to realize that if you decide to breed, It should not be for money, but for the love of the breed itself... And by loving the breed, Breedings should only go down with perfectly healthy and researched mates.

I'm blessed to have never had any birthing issues with my dogs, with the exception of one Momma not able to bust open the sack. But a few breeders friends of mine did warn me about the possibility of a C-Section being needed, Especially if the male was much larger than the female.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

i agree that breeding should be done for the betterment of the breed or else we will lose the traits that cause us to love the breed in the first place. however, there are many different opinions on what is considered "better for the breed".


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## ggates415 (Jun 8, 2009)

i bet if they started passing laws on byb's like they do dog fighting it will cut the number of pups being born by a huge %


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

Dashy is safe with Atlanta Bully Rescue after her horrible ordeal. Luckily an awesome couple that adopted another dog from us have offered to foster her for a couple of nights starting tomorrow so she has a quiet place to recuperate. They have a finished basement with heat, so they can keep her away from their 2 dogs. I'm going to keep her tonight for observation since the surgery turned out to be so major. Her uterus was as big as football and full of brown brown fluid. I've never seen anything like it  There is still a very big chance she might not make it because of her having the retained rotten puppy in her birth canal for 4 days, it's very likely she could go into septic shock. Her previous backyard breeder owner bred her (38 lbs) at a little over a year old with a 6 month old 75 lbs AmBully that is now 90 lbs. He couldn't afford to take her to the vet after he pulled 4 dead puppies from her on Saturday. ABR offered to pay for her spay and then after the vet and staff worked so hard to save her, he told us she would be going right back outside in the rain. There's no way she would have survived outside trying to recover from this surgery. He asked if there were any rescues that could take her. She is super sweet but in horrible shape. She's very emaciated. Her rib cage sticks out like nothing I've ever seen before. Luckily, despite her previous owner admitting she's never been on preventative, she is heartworm negative!

She is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, very petite and beautiful! After she recovers, she will go up for adoption.










Atlanta Bully Rescue had 3 dogs that had to go to the vet today including Dashy and 2 more have appointments tomorrow and we also had another dog spayed Monday. Any donations to help with the cost of our rescues' vet bills would be greatly appreciated, our paypal address is [email protected] and our mailing address is Atlanta Bully Rescue, PO Box 17868, Atlanta, GA 30316. Even small amounts add up very quickly.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I will never understand why people who can't afford to get the basic health care for their pets,breed them...What are they thinking?


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## Joleigh (Oct 1, 2010)

I dont understand people like this and quite frankly I dont want to. Ever if you know jack about breeding you breed a PUPPY to a PUPPY and think its a good idea? Much less with the sire being more then 2 times the size of the dam?!?!!? 

Poor girl she is so adorable I hope she makes it and finds a great home.

Keeping you in my thoughts Dashy


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## jayandlacy (Sep 21, 2009)

God created people like you to do good things and deal with bad people, cuz people like me would end up in jail for takin care of those bad people, unable to do any good.  only if women ruled the world....

I have so much respect for you, and everyone like you. poor girl, I hope she ends up ok, and finds a great forever home. Thank you for saving so many dogs.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Poor kiddo. That story just reeks of badness all around. Epic fail.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

BYB is another term that is based on opinion. what is considered a BYB to one person may not be to the next person.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

I don't know why people think they can afford puppies when they can't even afford a rabies vaccine. Thank you for what you do.


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

rob32 said:


> BYB is another term that is based on opinion. what is considered a BYB to one person may not be to the next person.


Anybody that would breed unregistered, untitled dogs that are under 2 years old and have never been to a vet or health tested are backyard breeders. Not to mention they weren't willing to spend money to take their bitch to a vet even after they suspected she retained a puppy. This man didn't even know how to take a dog's temperature, but he thought he could handle breeding his dog. You seriously do not think this is a backyard breeder?


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## Joleigh (Oct 1, 2010)

Atlanta Bully Rescue said:


> Anybody that would breed unregistered, untitled dogs that are under 2 years old and have never been to a vet or health tested are backyard breeders. Not to mention they weren't willing to spend money to take their bitch to a vet even after they suspected she retained a puppy. This man didn't even know how to take a dog's temperature, but he thought he could handle breeding his dog. You seriously do not think this is a backyard breeder?


I agree with every word of this.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

BYB'S freaking suck all the way around!


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

rob32 said:


> BYB is another term that is based on opinion. what is considered a BYB to one person may not be to the next person.


BYB is actually a pretty easily understood term Rob... In another thread you also stated that ones definition of a dog within standard for breeding could be different than others... I do not know what you are fishing for with these comments but I will try to explain this to you in lamens terms and as nicely as possible...

There is very little variance of STANDARD where this breed is concerned... Just because there are hundreds of idiots out there saying their dog is standard doesnt mean they actually are standard...

BYBs are/do

people who try to make money on puppies (reputable breeders lose more than they gain - FACT)

people who breed their dog intentionally because they have a good dog and want one of its offspring (what happens to the other 5-10 pups? thats a different thread completely)

people who advertise "blue nose, red nose, rare colors (i.e. blue or merle), rare bloodlines (insert crazy stupid name)" or any other form of special (FYI the only special dogs are ones that come from great well established lines the rest are all just dogs)

people who advertise on Craigslist - NUFF SAID

people who do not health test or do hip tests or temp tests and/or are not willing to provide proof of such tests

people who breed and breed a bitch until she is almost dead and then dump her at a shelter and all before 3 years of age

people who advertise their "stud" for "500 dollars" and he has no papers

people who breed dogs that arent proven (titled in weight pull, conformation or anything else)

people who breed dogs because they are pretty and will make pretty pups

people who breed two dogs either of which is not 2 years old

people who breed dogs because they have champions in their pedigree (just cause they have pretty papers does not they are worthy of breeding - note old dog men culled most of many litters)

people who have oops litters when the were fully aware their bitch was in heat and did nothing to separate the dogs (Ummm duh these same people have eight kids and live of the government and dont know why... HMMMMM)

If you need any other conformation of what a BYB is please let me know I have a much longer list but you get the gist here with this...

NOTE: If you have to question what is whos standard then you def should not be breeding if you ever thought it might be a good idea it isnt...


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

:goodpost: Well said!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

See one thing I noticed with bulldog (game dog breeder's) Not show breeder's is they breed pretty peds ... Just because you have 2 tight bred garner dogs off TG's yard does not mean they should be bred. If that was they case A lot of our dogs are well bred so we should breed them because of their peds? No I don't think so .. You see my whole beef with breeding is this .. If I bred anything I would want to keep the entire litter for myself i wouldn't allow the pups to go anywhere. I feel like when you breed bulldogs you should be trying to produce pups better than the parents. You can't very well tell how a pup is going to be @ a young age you have to give that pup time to mature and develop before you can say if it's a cull or not. Too many bulldog people breeding pedigree's instead of breeding QUALITY proven animals. Breeding ped's alone is enough for me to consider someone a BYB.


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Sadie said:


> See one thing I noticed with bulldog (game dog breeder's) Not show breeder's is they breed pretty peds ... Just because you have 2 tight bred garner dogs off TG's yard does not mean they should be bred. If that was they case A lot of our dogs are well bred so we should breed them because of their peds? No I don't think so .. You see my whole beef with breeding is this .. If I bred anything I would want to keep the entire litter for myself i wouldn't allow the pups to go anywhere. I feel like when you breed bulldogs you should be trying to produce pups better than the parents. You can't very well tell how a pup is going to be @ a young age you have to give that pup time to mature and develop before you can say if it's a cull or not. Too many bulldog people breeding pedigree's instead of breeding QUALITY proven animals. Breeding ped's alone is enough for me to consider someone a BYB..


Well said!!! :goodpost::goodpost:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I know dog men who peddle lol .. Doesn't make it right top notch pedigree's can produce top notch cur's if you don't know what your doing. Nice pedigree's alone are not enough reason to breed. Just wanted to add that to list since I see it so often. People breeding untested unproven dogs with nice ped's thinking they are going to produce a litter full of super stars. It doesn't work like that.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Sadie said:


> See one thing I noticed with bulldog (game dog breeder's) Not show breeder's is they breed pretty peds ... Just because you have 2 tight bred garner dogs off TG's yard does not mean they should be bred. If that was they case A lot of our dogs are well bred so we should breed them because of their peds? No I don't think so .. You see my whole beef with breeding is this .. If I bred anything I would want to keep the entire litter for myself i wouldn't allow the pups to go anywhere. I feel like when you breed bulldogs you should be trying to produce pups better than the parents. You can't very well tell how a pup is going to be @ a young age you have to give that pup time to mature and develop before you can say if it's a cull or not. Too many bulldog people breeding pedigree's instead of breeding QUALITY proven animals. Breeding ped's alone is enough for me to consider someone a BYB.


yellow john,grand daddy to Assasin 2,10 w,in good fashion,saw several of them.
right back to my soapbox comments about,with which you've read and are probably tired of reading,old dogmen kept well or solid bred pups for A minimum of 6 mos.those who made it to A year had often had a hook in on A roll.A short,quit check roll,then chained for 6 more mos.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

never once did i say i thought this particular person wasnt a back yard breeder.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> See one thing I noticed with bulldog (game dog breeder's) Not show breeder's is they breed pretty peds ... Just because you have 2 tight bred garner dogs off TG's yard does not mean they should be bred. If that was they case A lot of our dogs are well bred so we should breed them because of their peds? No I don't think so .. You see my whole beef with breeding is this .. If I bred anything I would want to keep the entire litter for myself i wouldn't allow the pups to go anywhere. I feel like when you breed bulldogs you should be trying to produce pups better than the parents. You can't very well tell how a pup is going to be @ a young age you have to give that pup time to mature and develop before you can say if it's a cull or not. Too many bulldog people breeding pedigree's instead of breeding QUALITY proven animals. Breeding ped's alone is enough for me to consider someone a BYB.


heh i seee this a lot too. nowadays quite a few people are breeding pretty peds just so they can post the breedings they make on the internet. i suppose its some sort of brag. problem is, even with a pretty ped, doesnt mean youll have great dogs. i have noticed it DOES help a bit though


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> BYB is actually a pretty easily understood term Rob... In another thread you also stated that ones definition of a dog within standard for breeding could be different than others... I do not know what you are fishing for with these comments but I will try to explain this to you in lamens terms and as nicely as possible...
> 
> There is very little variance of STANDARD where this breed is concerned... Just because there are hundreds of idiots out there saying their dog is standard doesnt mean they actually are standard...
> 
> ...


honestly, i could care less about conformation shows and weight pulling with this breed. to me, just because a dog is a conformation show "champion" in perfect health with all the elbow and hips tests done doesnt mean anything. breeding curs to curs, even healthy curs, isnt really doing the breed any favors. then again, ive always been in the minority with this opinion.


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)




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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Omg! That was the dog who was pregnant??? That's so disgustingly thin! She is literally just skin and bone.


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

k8nkane said:


> Omg! That was the dog who was pregnant??? That's so disgustingly thin! She is literally just skin and bone.


Yep, that's Dashy


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## DarkMoon (Nov 26, 2009)

If that is "love" then please, no one love me. I'd rather be hated then treated like that. Poor POOR baby girl. How could someone do that to her. I hope she pulls through...


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## beccaboo (Dec 27, 2009)

She's so petite. Who in their right mind would breed a staffy bull pup to an am bully??? Ugh. Poor thing. Hope she pulls thru. Such a sweet face.


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

beccaboo said:


> She's so petite. Who in their right mind would breed a staffy bull pup to an am bully??? Ugh. Poor thing. Hope she pulls thru. Such a sweet face.


She's very small, just a little bit bigger than our Westie/Chihuahua mix.


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

rob32 said:


> honestly, i could care less about conformation shows and weight pulling with this breed. to me, just because a dog is a conformation show "champion" in perfect health with all the elbow and hips tests done doesnt mean anything. breeding curs to curs, even healthy curs, isnt really doing the breed any favors. then again, ive always been in the minority with this opinion.


Ok well you are headed in a whole different direction than what this thread is about... However I will say this if you are saying that only game tested dogs with titles are worth breeding then you would be saying that 99% percent of the breeders (reputable, responsible, good lines) in this country are BYBs... since what you are suggesting is illegal in this country then the next best thing to sticking as close to the original standard and purpose of this breed is other working sport titles... JMO


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> Ok well you are headed in a whole different direction than what this thread is about... However I will say this if you are saying that only game tested dogs with titles are worth breeding then you would be saying that 99% percent of the breeders (reputable, responsible, good lines) in this country are BYBs... since what you are suggesting is illegal in this country then the next best thing to sticking as close to the original standard and purpose of this breed is other working sport titles... JMO


if it were no longer possible to get an APBT bred to the original standard i would go to mexico and get one. weight pulling and agility trials are respectable but still not exactly breeding to the original standard, the one that gave us the dog that we love. conformation shows on the other hand, to me, are completely worthless. i have no desire to take a dog to a judge and let him or her judge my dog on how closely it meets the breed standard. any person with real knowledge of the breed should be able to decide this themselves, without having to conform to the standards of the judges opinion of what the breed standard should be.

now back on topic, its a damn shame what this person did to that dog in the pics. im a firm believer in "eye for an eye" justice. i know im not the very best pet own er in the world but my dogs get vet care, plenty of food (enough to make my ol girl get a belly) and, plenty of personal attention each day. if you cant at least manage these things why on earth do you have a pet?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL @ sarge it ain't a bulldog till it's met it's first match and crossed the scratch line ... Use it or loose it LMAO!! 

No just kidding If you want to land your butt in jail by all means .. I enjoy my freedom and the freedom to own these dogs and don't want to mess that up so I think I am ok with staying away from the box .... besides I prefer to let my buddies in europe and mexico where it's still legal to keep these dogs bulldogs and reap the benefits of owning APBT's ... LOL


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Sadie said:


> LOL @ sarge it ain't a bulldog till it's met it's first match and crossed the scratch line ... Use it or loose it LMAO!!
> 
> No just kidding If you want to land your butt in jail by all means .. I enjoy my freedom and the freedom to own these dogs and don't want to mess that up so I think I am ok with staying away from the box .... besides I prefer to let my buddies in europe and mexico where it's still legal to keep these dogs bulldogs and reap the benefits of owning APBT's ... LOL


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> LOL @ sarge it ain't a bulldog till it's met it's first match and crossed the scratch line ... Use it or loose it LMAO!!
> 
> No just kidding If you want to land your butt in jail by all means .. I enjoy my freedom and the freedom to own these dogs and don't want to mess that up so I think I am ok with staying away from the box .... besides I prefer to let my buddies in europe and mexico where it's still legal to keep these dogs bulldogs and reap the benefits of owning APBT's ... LOL


freedom is nice isnt it? i worked as a corrections officer for a time, thats all i wanna see of a prison.


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

This brings me to the "so called Whoops" litter my bfs friend had, his lil 35lbam bull staff (he calls her a pit) got knocked up by his 90lb ROTTY!! and he fed and fed and fed her and she was SO fat I tolb him he was LUCKY there was 11 pups because if it was 4 (like he and his dumb family was hopeing) I offerd to pay for her spay, I offerd to take her in and get her an ultasound and vet the pups when they came and give her back healthy and spayed... nope so he left her in his kitchen to have pups because they were going out... came back to 10 alive and 1 dead. He was actully kinda MAD that there was 10 alive and then wanted me to take them to find homes but his money hungry GF wouldnt let me vet them just wanted a quick $100 sold them practically buy one get one free for $25 - $50 and then kept a girl (for more "OOPPSS" LITTERS) the things he said about the whole thing discusseted me and that could have VERY EASLILY killed his girl and he did not care he wasnt going to let me take her to the vet because he thought I would keep pups and sell them or what ever his GFs ideas were!!! Crazy, people are CRAZY


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

Dashy enjoying the good life at her foster home %


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Gosh, she has such a sweet face. Look at her all curled up in the corner, like she's afraid to take too much space up on the couch.


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## beccaboo (Dec 27, 2009)

Healthy and recovering yes? Gosh she just looks so precious. I love the staffy bull head shape.


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

Lil Dashy all ready for the snow storm


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

Oh what a lucky pup - to finally know what real love and care feels like. The heart you have and the work you do are absolutely awesome. Sweet Dashy is getting what looks like a well deserved break. She looks so sweet in her sweater!


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## Joleigh (Oct 1, 2010)

What a sweet girl how is she doing?


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## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

Dashy is doing amazing! She is such a great dog, we just love her! She is ready for adoption, housetrained, and fully vetted


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