# A Little History If U R Interested



## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

As the years go by it's amazing how much things can and have changed. It seems like the other day we were still using rotary dialed telephones and knobed TVs. So much has changed and information and communication on just about everything man has ever laid eyes on or has heard of is at your fingertips. The internet has pretty much taken over books and newspapers. With all this lovely flow of information, just like anything else in life, there is a bad side. Most of the info on the web comes from uninformed, uneducated sources that have actually never taken the time out to study or go down the road of experience to actually be a credible source on what ever subject they are now an "expert" on.

I have seen on many forums and have observed many "pit bull" folk teaching others in person history lessons on dogs that they obviously haven't proper knowledge about to teach anyone. And this goes from breed origins, to bloodlines, to dogmen, to type....

What I will put together here is excerts from sources that we all can pretty much call credible whether it be from a book, web site, or letter so that we all can get a conclusive understanding on the history of our breed(s) and pitbulls in general.

First up what is a "pit bull", why they are called "pit bulls", and where do they come from?...

*Wikipedia's take....*
Pit Bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
_Very informative._

*From a Staff Bull breeder's site....*
Page Title
_The reason I used this one is because it has some really good excerts from Richard Stratton books._

*From nyx.net....*
The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) FAQ
_Some really good info._

*From a Staff Bull Club...*
Breed History

*From a APBT site....*
http://www.pitbullproject.ca/history.htm
_Good info and excerts from Colby's book._

*Diane Jessup's site....*Official Pit Bull Site of Diane Jessup
_Some good info for the modern mind. _

I will post more credible info as I get the chance. If anyone else has more credible history please feel free to post up.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

I would just like to point out that wiki is not a legitimate source, and this makes your entire post ridiculous...anyone can go on there and change that info at any time.

Please feel free to search old posts for some REAL credible info.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

sorry but why are you relying on info from wikipedia!? there is so much false info. i mean literally anyone can post whatever they want about ne topic...in highscool we werent even alowed to use wikipedia...in college we got f's if wikipedia was one of our resourses...just a heads up for futur references.



oh also not to be picky but you sound like you know a lot but it is kind of confusing to me that you say where pitbulls come from...if you were trying to teach us about pitbulls in general we would be looking up where about 20 dog breeds originated. lol. srry but i dont feel like doing so much research on that manny dogs. i admit i havent read the links yet but thats mostly cuz of wikipidea i dont know how credible the other ones will be but i will take a peek. i guess one more time out of 100plus times reading about apbt history wont hurt though...never a bad idea to refresh old news.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Some of the excerpts from Wikipedia are taken from books that's why I used it. Just like some of the other links. The excerts on those wikipedia pages are credible, the first one more than the second. I'll take out the second wiki link if that makes you feel more comfortable.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

Alex004 said:


> As the years go by it's amazing how much things can and have changed. It seems like the other day we were still using rotary dialed telephones and knobed TVs. So much has changed and information and communication on just about everything man has ever laid eyes on or has heard of is at your fingertips. The internet has pretty much taken over books and newspapers. With all this lovely flow of information, just like anything else in life, there is a bad side. Most of the info on the web comes from uninformed, uneducated sources that have actually never taken the time out to study or go down the road of experience to actually be a credible source on what ever subject they are now an "expert" on.
> 
> I have seen on many forums and have observed many "pit bull" folk teaching others in person history lessons on dogs that they obviously haven't proper knowledge about to teach anyone. And this goes from breed origins, to bloodlines, to dogmen, to type....
> *
> ...


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha....OK, so I can write an article about pit bulls, list bogus breed standards, include photos of my CKC pit (which could be my cat, snake, bird, whatever) put it on wiki, then write a letter to my husband about the same info, and call it credible? Oh boy can we all learn from that.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

the 3rd link down is a good one. ive read it before though.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

Alex004 said:


> Some of the excerts from Wikipedia are taken from books that's why I used it. Just like some of the other links. The excerts on those wikipedia pages are credible, the first one more than the second. I'll take out the second wiki link if that makes you feel more comfortable.


Have you read those books, do you know wiki quoted accurately, and no one will ever mess with the info for fun or to manipulate SEO?


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Look I posted this for people who want to actually learn about these dogs. People who actually want to know the truth. I have read the books that the excerpts on wiki are from yes. In any form no one should take one person or one sources' version as the truth anyway. This is why I have posted several and you are welcome to post info too. Don't try to throw off this threads intentions with your opinion of wikipedia. You actually have to do some reading and studying yourselves to get the full picture. This is just a match to spark the fire.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Also I'll be posting links to the actual writings in Stratton, Colby, Rocca, etc... books on the subject as soon as I scan and upload them. Also some info and possibly pics I will get on my next trip to England.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

So what you "know" comes from scanned and copied works that anyone who cared to find out could do so on their own? I see you are compiling the copied works for it to be easy to follow but you come on here with this air of ....Hey let ME teach YOU something about APBT and you don't really KNOW anything from experience. 

maybe you didn't want to come off that way but you did.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

:goodpost:


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

OldFortKennels said:


> So what you "know" comes from scanned and copied works that anyone who cared to find out could do so on their own? I see you are compiling the copied works for it to be easy to follow but you come on here with this air of ....Hey let ME teach YOU something about APBT and you don't really KNOW anything from experience.
> 
> maybe you didn't want to come off that way but you did.


True. Not only is the Wikipedia source the worst place to send someone, but I know more than a handful of dog people who have no use for Richard Stratton's opinion. See, that's all it is. Opinions and opinions on those opinions. Not necessarily truth or education.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

OldFortKennels said:


> So what you "know" comes from scanned and copied works that anyone who cared to find out could do so on their own? I see you are compiling the copied works for it to be easy to follow but you come on here with this air of ....Hey let ME teach YOU something about APBT and you don't really KNOW anything from experience.
> 
> maybe you didn't want to come off that way but you did.





buzhunter said:


> True. Not only is the Wikipedia source the worst place to send someone, but I know more than a handful of dog people who have no use for Richard Stratton's opinion. See, that's all it is. Opinions and opinions on those opinions. Not necessarily truth or education.


:goodpost:

Hope your Wiki can tell you what to do with your know it all attitude!!!


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Wow... All the folks who know everything have so much to say. If you knew the history already then this thread isn't for you. Let others who are trying to learn do so. I guess if it doesn't come out of the mouth of a gopitbull mod or vip member it isn't truth hunh?

As far as me speaking from experience... We are talking about the history of the breed. One that dates back over a hundred and fifty years ofcourse I am going to have to rely on written documentation. I am not 100+ years old. The experience I have is from the early '90s with ABDA, UKC arena and with game dogs. Yes I said "game". That was a long time ago and I don't associate myself with that lifestyle any longer. I was at the root of the Camelot bloodline as breeder and fancier. I have been to many yards and many gatherings and dealt with many legends first hand. My experience speaks for itself if you knew me but we are on the internet and you don't know me so why even bother to elaborate.

Finally I never came on here acting as if I knew it all. I have been on this board for a while now and have said very little. The reason I spoke out that day was because some one asked for info and they were given the wrong info. It wasn't my opinion it was fact and I showed proof of that fact shortly after the thread was closed in attempts to "shut me up". I took offense to it just like 99% of you would also. I don't know it all, far from that but I do know a good deal and I didn't get it by googling "pit bull".


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Now to get back on course....

If anyone has a problem with wikipedia don't read the wikipedia link. There is much more information given on the other links anyway. There is only one wikipedia link and five other links. 

As far as me only giving links.... How else am I supposed to show proof of historical records or facts? I have books, letters, and documents here at my disposal but we are not in a room together so this is basically the only way for it to be done right? Most of the links have listings in them of where this information came from. If anyone has a problem with me fine but don't try to derail the thread because of it. Read the links and if you think something in those links is bogus then let it be known. Simple

I don't know everything and never said I did. I'm pretty sure that there are folks on here that know more than me and have more experience. But I do know what pit bulls are and what they aren't and I do know where they come form historically because I have researched it for years, before there was google and wikipedia. How many folks on here have actually gone to 5 different countries learning about these dogs? But like I said.... We are online and I could be a 13yr old kid hiding behind a keyboard.... This is why I have given the links to the information so that you don't have to take a person you don't know's word for it.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

These links are to some writtings in Bloodlines Magazine 1974 from a well known fancier and APBT club director at the time....

*Page 1*
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2451/books001.jpg

*Page 2*
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/412/books002m.jpg

*Page 3*
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2271/books003v.jpg

*Page 4*
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9025/books004.jpg

This is links to a letter written to Bloodlines Magazine some months later from another well known fancier at the time in rebuttal to the first letter....

*Page 1*
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8378/books005.jpg

*Page 2*
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7036/books006.jpg

If anyone knows a better way for me to post scans and pics than using "image shack" please let me know. Thanks.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

This is an excerpt from Bloodlines Magazine where Richard Stratton did a question and answer column where readers wrote in with there questions and he answered them with his knowledge....

Page 1
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1167/books007.jpg

Page 2
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5446/books008.jpg

_This was taken from a Richard Stratton book, "This Is The American Pit Bull Terrier"._


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Taken from the glossary of the same Stratton book....

Am Staff
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2395/books011.jpg

Staff Bull
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4505/books010.jpg


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Please dont use Camelot to represent the APBT breed because they are far from it. SO are you Kenny or Art?


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

*Short history on Colby dogs...*
Colby's American Pit Bull Terriers
_click on "History" link on the left..._

*Colby's Galtie*
Colby's Galtie

*Colby's Primo. The pit bull that set the standard for the AKC for Am Staffs.*
Colby's Primo

*Ch Charlie Lloyd's Pilot. An English dog that was at the foundation of the Colby line.*
Lloyd's Pilot

*Ch Charlie Lloyd's Paddy. Also an English import at the foundation of the Colby line.*
Lloyd Paddy

*Colby's Pincher. A well know early Colby dog.*
Colby's Pincher

*Jack Burke's Spring*
Jack Burke's Spring

The reason I have included this Colby info is to show the structure of imported dogs from England and Ireland that formed both the APBT and the Am Staff.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

OldFortKennels said:


> Please dont use Camelot to represent the APBT breed because they are far from it. SO are you Kenny or Art?


Can you check out the links instead of trying to discredit me. No my name is at the top left hand of every one of my posts. Also Kenny is and was always a fraud. He is not and does not breed Camelot dogs or the way Camelot bred dogs. You could have PM me this question OFK.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

*A link to some old pics of Staff Bulls in the UK that came from the same stock as the Colby and Armitage dogs.*
Staffords of old
_Notice the similarity of the old SBTs and the early APBTs?_

*From an Irish SBT club on breed History....*
Breed standard


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Kenny is the one breeding "camelot". Art went another direction.

why Pm the question? Anyone who knows the line should know the foundation.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

OldFortKennels said:


> Kenny is the one breeding "camelot". Art went another direction.
> 
> why Pm the question? Anyone who knows the line should know the foundation.


Kenny is the one that went another direction. Art has always been Art and anyone who knew him knows that. Anyway we went to PMs already so we can keep the Cam stuff there.


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

Alex, from wha I understood from the posts I read is that the other members of this website are trying to help you out on not getting the wrong facts on the breed. I believe they are trying to tell you nicely that not all the stuff about the breed on wiki is correct. 
They simply just dont wish to have new starters read false info and mess the name of the breed up anymore. I dont see anywhere, where any of the members were rude at all. I am sorry that some of them seemed rude to you at any point in time. They are simply trying to help you understand that not everything on the internet is correct and could seem like it is all correct but it is not.
It does seem you are having a hard time on here and I am sorry about that. By no means do I or some of the other members wish to make waves when there are few lovers of the breed out there. The members where simply trying to help and seems like some of them got a kick while doing so.


EDITED!!!!!!!!!


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

hunh?? Did you read this thread completely? Harley I appreciate it but I don't think you understand what this thread is about or why I said what I said. There were many other threads that were closed and/or deleted before this one that lead me to start this thread. I've been around a long time. Long before the dot com era. I don't rely on wikipedia to teach me what I have already lived for more than 15 yrs. It was used because it had excerpts from credible sources on all three breeds of "pit bulls" on one page. Nothing I have posted is false info. If it was it would have been pointed out. Certain people are using the wikipedia card because its the only one they have. The problem was newbies were getting incorrect information from some forum staff that's why I opened my mouth in the first place.


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

I dont know I may have miss understood some where. A few of your post seemed to me like you were getting alittle upset in some parts and saw some others that may have lead to a none to friend post. Sorry I must have just ran through the forum and didnt read fully enough. I am running on like less then 3 hours of sleep in the past two day and my butts draggin but am not able to get sleep. Sorry again I miss understood things, and thought wrong. My bad! lol


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Harley D said:


> I dont know I may have miss understood some where. A few of your post seemed to me like you were getting alittle upset in some parts and saw some others that may have lead to a none to friend post. Sorry I must have just ran through the forum and didnt read fully enough. I am running on like less then 3 hours of sleep in the past two day and my butts draggin but am not able to get sleep. Sorry again I miss understood things, and thought wrong. My bad! lol


Lol... No prob. Get some sleep! I'm going to get some now myself.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> The problem was newbies were getting incorrect information from some forum staff that's why I opened my mouth in the first place.


Can you quote please where ANY forum staff has givin false information?

This is the thread that started your trip and NO false information was givin on this thread.

http://www.gopitbull.com/bloodline-discussion/16729-natural-colors-vs-enhanced.html

This question was asked


Lex's Guardian said:


> Thanks for clarifying. What I've gathered so far is the difference with *Ambullies from APBT's & Amstaff's* are the snout are shorter with more of a bulldog appearance, is this so?


I answered this



american_pit13 said:


> The main difference in the 3 are size. Weight and height.
> 
> The APBT is the original and meant to be a slender performance dog.
> The Amstaff is a show version of the APBT that has been bred and bit thicker and to AKC standards as the AKC doesn't except the APBT.
> The American Bully is newer and varies quite alot in size and structure. The American Bully is a cross of APBT and Amstaff with the mixing in of Mastiff and other breeds.


Then you came in with your "history lesson" of the Staffy Bull which NOONE had asked about. Thats is what started your "the staff is wrong trip" The question I answered for her she stated those 3 breeds in specific.



Alex004 said:


> This is correct except one thing... It amazing to see how the times have change. The "three" breeds and only "three" breeds are *APBT, Am Staff, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier*. Am Bully is not a breed. It is a concoction. A mixture of breeds or hybrid. (Mutt)
> 
> Staffordshire Bull Terriers are quite different now than they were in the 1800's. They were the only pit bulls of the time and were where APBTs originate from at the turn of the century. All APBTs trace back to Staffordshire Bull Terriers.


So you need to get it straight and stop accusing the staff or anyone else of lying and providing false information or you will be *banned for good*.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

You just can't help yourself hunh? I thought we had an agreement? You stay out of my way and I stay out of yours? You jumping on here with all of this is for what? Are you guilty of something? Did I say any names? And this stuff that you are posting isn't what made me open my mouth. The thread where the false or mis-information was given wasn't the one you posted. It was the one you or another staff member deleted. The same one you got that last quote from me in. Learn to relax and let others post up. This isn't _your_ forum or is it? You don't like me and you have made that clear. Fine. But be mature enough to move forward and move on. You deleted those threads, good for you. You won't get a chance to delete this one 



> Can you quote please where ANY forum staff has givin false information?


No, sorry I can't because some one deleted it.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> You just can't help yourself hunh? ... Learn to relax


I would have never believed you typed this if I hadn't seen it with my own two eyes. Are you crazy?oke:


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

youre the one who seems a little bit high strung alex... letting emotions flow yet?


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## Oldskool Brent (Jul 1, 2009)

I think every newbie should read a Stratton book or two. Not because he's the be all/end all, but because out of the more mainstream books on the APBT, his will be the ones that beat it into their skull that their dog will fight dogs more often than not. I read a couple of the recent "fluffy" books and it really glosses over the dog drive in these dogs. I'm of the ilk that we need _less_ owners, not _more._


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> You just can't help yourself hunh? I thought we had an agreement? You stay out of my way and I stay out of yours? You jumping on here with all of this is for what? Are you guilty of something? Did I say any names? And this stuff that you are posting isn't what made me open my mouth. The thread where the false or mis-information was given wasn't the one you posted. It was the one you or another staff member deleted. The same one you got that last quote from me in.


I am not going to just sit here while you *LIE* and say that our staff or anyone else on this forum is providing false information or false history on these dogs.

The only thread that was deleted was your "thanx american_pit13" cry baby thread.

Every thing I quoted was in the link provided, so stop trying to use the "we deleted" threads card.

Oh and we have a history section
http://www.gopitbull.com/history/


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

I say why dont we make peace? How about we stop using these websites, that goes for both sides. Maybe just if someone asked it we could tell them. If there was any debate about a part in the breeds history there could be a debate on that. 
I think that maybe we should let this forum die out. We all agree that some let alone most website lie about the breed. I believe that Alex may have been thinking by posting this forum that he may have helped some new comers out. Though it seems to me that this thread has turned on him. 
It does seem to me that Alex left the it opened and pointing fingures at anyone and narrowing someone out. The point is the false forum was deleted and thats that. The past is the past and why not let the past keep going and stay in the past?
That is what I understand. That there was a false past forum put up and was removed and that Alex may have thought to put up these links to help someone else. I do believe that he agrees with you guys that most website lie about the breed. Why not just let this thread die like most do?


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Well I haven't been online for a couple of days. Had to go out of town on business. Like I said before, who ever dislikes me can do so. I love you too.

If there is any falsehood in my posts please point them out.

There is no guessing to why I started this thread. I started this thread because a "newbie" ask a question of what three breeds are considered "pit bulls" Am Staff, APBT, and they couldn't remember the other breed. Almost all of the replies from forum members and staff where that the third was Am Bully. It doesn't matter if the person who was asking the question thought the third breed was Am Bully or not it was still incorrect. I commented on that and here we are.



> Every thing I quoted was in the link provided, so stop trying to use the "we deleted" threads card.


I went back and checked and you are correct and I apologise for saying it was deleted. For some reason I thought it was deleted. Maybe because it was closed. Well since it isn't closed then you know exactly where the misinformation was given. In the posts above my first post in that thread that stated that Am Bully was one of the three breeds of "pit bull". Why I felt so compelled to step in and say what I said is because ever since I can remeber learning my first basics on these dogs, over 15 years ago, up until now I have always known and researched that these are the three and only breeds that are from the original stock of fighting dogs in Europe that _ARE_ and have ever been pit bulls or called pit bulls. When some one purposefully tries to push one of these breeds aside to incorporate some other form of dog out of either ignorance or personal agenda I think it is a travisty to these dogs and to the people who fancy them. Slap me silly and call me crazy but I think the truth should always be told and facts be portraited as they really are.

Now from the looks of things this site isn't really keen on real history and really what these dogs are. I maybe wrong but that is my personal feelings as of right now. But for those few that are really seeking facts and wanting to know what a "pit bull" really is, as long as God allows me to I will always be here to show them the way to finding the truth whether it be online or in person.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

I will be getting some more info on the different lines in Europe the next time I go and it will be interesting... Especially for you "Blue" folks. Going to see if I can get some solid roots on your dogs. Also to see if there are any decendants left in Europe of the lines Colby dogs originated from.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Oldskool Brent said:


> I think every newbie should read a Stratton book or two. Not because he's the be all/end all, but because out of the more mainstream books on the APBT, his will be the ones that beat it into their skull that their dog will fight dogs more often than not. I read a couple of the recent "fluffy" books and it really glosses over the dog drive in these dogs. I'm of the ilk that we need _less_ owners, not _more._


:clap:

I think everyone should read his along with books from real fanciers of these dogs. Those authors have spent decades, some their entire lives, with these dogs. Their knowledge and advice is invaluable! Whether you totally agree with them or not you have to admit that they are key players in this game and without them 95% of us would be lost. 5% of us actually have access to real dogmen or are friends with *real* dogmen and can get stories that are handed down through the generations. For the rest of us we have no other choice but to research through written records and accounts.


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

that would be a cool thing because im pretty tierd of people discounting my dogs because they are blue. they are wonderful dogs and have just as much drive as my other dogs.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

yup them blue dog have no drive or work ethic! I would never feed any......


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

lmao.... not you too. your a funny lady. I love your blue dogs.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I have a stock pile of Abilify if anyone needs any..... *offers drugs*


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

what is abilify?


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

i just looked it up its an anti-psycotic most commonly used to treat depression..


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

I wouldn't want anyone to know I had a "stock pile" of antidepressants  Anyway I hoped they helped... 

Got some info that some of the blood that Colby used to import from Europe for his stock is still in Europe. Trying to get some more info and possibly some pics. I did get the contact info of some folks there that I will check out the next time I go up. It would be nice to see if they still look similar to the dogs at the turn of the century or if they have changed and how much. I will try to get pedigrees as well.

Oh and to the person who keeps giving me bad "rep", you know who you are ... I'm not on here to get rep points so you can knock yourself out...


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

uh huh..... I'm gonna keep my mouth shut here, but your standoffish attitude is very undesirable. Also, that rep comes in handy. Just a wild idea, all this info can probably found on this site already, there is a search button up top


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm more interested in the Future of the breed now


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Everyone be nice and stop the unnecessary remarks! Keep this on point please and Alex if you have an issue with members please join us in the VIP and you all can hash it out there without the mods getting involved. 

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.......


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I gotta side with Marty here.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm siding with Marty but I wouldn't use wiki either for any kind of info. Have a great day


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

yeah wiki is made by folks like you and me.in all my classes in college i am not allowd to use wiki sites when i give sources.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Does wiki explain how to break up two fighting dogs? Or can it tell you how much your accidental litter will cost you? Can wiki guarantee the authenticity of your papers? Can wiki show you how to set up a weight pull track? Can wiki offer a discussion that offers several points of view? CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW WIKI WORKS?


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

:goodpost: Ask Wikipedia those questions. It obviously had some better "history" info about "pit bulls" than some people on this board though. And that info was taken from Stratton, Colby, Rocca, and Armitage books. Also from AKC, UKC, ADBA, and KC. Sources that date back up to a hundred years. It's funny how some people are still on this "wiki" arguement instead of focusing on the info that wiki gives on "pit bulls" (historically).

As for Marty, where the future is with these dogs is in a whole lot of trouble because most people are ignorant to their past. You yourself run a board where Am Bullies and the idea of bullies period is bashed on a daily basis. You have your own opinion of what pit bulls are from what they aren't right? Well let others be able to knowledgably form their own opinions. You should know and encourage the fact of how important it is for fanciers of this breed to acquire as much knowledge as possible where these dogs are concerned. Like I said before. This thread is for who is interested.

How can you know where to take this breed when you don't Know how you have to gotten to where you are now and where you came from?


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I could learn all about surgery in books, but I'd need other surgeons and hand on experience to show me how it's really done.


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

hey bro could you replace a hip for me.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Sure, let me find out how on WIKI and I'll get right on that! LMAO


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

Are you REALLY saying Wiki is a valid source? LOL. :hammer:


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

reddoggy said:


> I could learn all about surgery in books, but I'd need other surgeons and hand on experience to show me how it's really done.


Well I can't quite do that over the internet on a forum now can I??? Just a thought.

If you focused the same amount of energy on helping this thread by posting historical info as you did trying to sabotage it you would have accomplished a hell of a lot more than what you have so far... Or is it that you don't actually have anything thing knowledgable to add?


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> why don't we just close this joke of a thread?


Why don't you as a mod help the situation by cleaning up the garbage post and warning members who are purposefully trying to get this thread close to be respectful and stop trying to ruin threads? Why be a part of the problem?


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