# Papers ?



## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

My neighbor has about 8 adult dogs and i have posted about them before,but anyways his female "pitbull" is short and has floppy ears , now not saying shes not pure but to me she dont look it , then he has a def. purebred male with papers i think .... they tried to sale the pups for 300 then down to 100 now he tried to give me one for free , my question is can the dad have papers and the mom but not the pups ? He told me when i asked if they had papers that it would cost too much to get them, it just dosent add up to me ?


Although i want one i have my hands full with mine already so i wont be getting one but i just thought someone coul answer it for me ?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> My neighbor has about 8 adult dogs and i have posted about them before,but anyways his female "pitbull" is short and has floppy ears , now not saying shes not pure but to me she dont look it , then he has a def. purebred male with papers i think .... they tried to sale the pups for 300 then down to 100 now he tried to give me one for free , my question is can the dad have papers and the mom but not the pups ? He told me when i asked if they had papers that it would cost too much to get them, it just dosent add up to me ?
> 
> Although i want one i have my hands full with mine already so i wont be getting one but i just thought someone coul answer it for me ?


Yes he is just not registering the entire litter himself he would have to pay to register the litter if he doesn't want to do it he doesn't have to and the people buying them would just send off a single registration application with the registry that the parents are registered with in order to do this you will need both their registration numbers off their certificates a seller receipt and the seller must fill out the seller portion on the application which would be the dam and sire names and their numbers the date the pup was born and if he has the names of the dogs in the first 4 generations he would fill those in and he would need to sign the application and then you would have to fill in your info as the buyer before you mail it off. I would ask to see the certificate papers on both parents to verify their names and registration numbers if they are registered he should have this information on hand even if he has never sent off for their pedigree. If he doesn't he is lying and I wouldn't take a pup from him if you have plans on showing, breeding, or wanting to do anything else with the dog in the future.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

it costs us $20 to register a litter , its BS when they say it cost to much. If the pups arent papered they are mutts as far as that goes , if they are pure ask to see the parents papers.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Angel some breeders do not want to register litters but you can still do a single registration on those pups if you have the seller complete the info on the parents and you have their numbers. I did this with AVA Marty never registered AVA or her brother but when I got her I was able to register doing a single registration with the ADBA But I had all the parents info and Marty's signature verifying she was off the parents that were already registered. Not everyone registers their dogs or litters even if they can just an FYI. Especially with game bred dogs some guys do not like to keep paper trails. I am not saying that is the case here I can only speak from my own experience.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Yeah thats why i think hes lying they are just trying to get rid of them they have about 40 cats and was 8 dogs but idk anyways, the mom does have papers sometimes when you ask and sometimes they dont lol i think thats bs,either they do or dont . Also can a pitbull thats purebred be black with some brown ? I have only seen one pup but thats what he described and that one is blue and black ?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> Yeah thats why i think hes lying they are just trying to get rid of them they have about 40 cats and was 8 dogs but idk anyways, the mom does have papers sometimes when you ask and sometimes they dont lol i think thats bs,either they do or dont . Also can a pitbull thats purebred be black with some brown ? I have only seen one pup but thats what he described and that one is blue and black ?


Ask him to show you the registration certificates or pedigrees on both dogs if he can't produce them then he's lying. That is how you solve that problem. As for for the color your describing it sounds more like seal the coat appears black indoors but in the sunlight it gives off red or brown undertones that color is known as seal.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Yes he is just not registering the entire litter himself he would have to pay to register the litter if he doesn't want to do it he doesn't have to and the people buying them would just send off a single registration application with the registry that the parents are registered with in order to do this you will need both their registration numbers off their certificates a seller receipt and the seller must fill out the seller portion on the application which would be the dam and sire names and their numbers the date the pup was born and if he has the names of the dogs in the first 4 generations he would fill those in and he would need to sign the application and then you would have to fill in your info as the buyer before you mail it off. I would ask to see the certificate papers on both parents to verify their names and registration numbers if they are registered he should have this information on hand even if he has never sent off for their pedigree. If he doesn't he is lying and I wouldn't take a pup from him if you have plans on showing, breeding, or wanting to do anything else with the dog in the future.


Yeah if i only had 2 dogs id love to have one with papers,but i wouldnt get one from him without proof , although hes breeding again(like always) hes a BYB ... next time shes in heat so i MIGHT get one then if i have the proper funds for care,etc . and if theyre papered and the person wanting my little beagle pup takes him then i will only have 2 dogs :hammer: not saying naything soon maybe like next year .


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Ask him to show you the registration certificates or pedigrees on both dogs if he can't produce them then he's lying. That is how you solve that problem. As for for the color your describing it sounds more like seal the coat appears black indoors but in the sunlight it gives off red or brown undertones that color is known as seal.


 Oh okay , and can HA and DA aggression be passed on from the parrents ?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Well he does not sound like an ethical breeder if it was me I would pass. But I do know you can still register a pup without the entire litter being registered the way I told you yes people do it but if you don't trust your breeder than you shouldn't buy anything from him.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> Oh okay , and can HA and DA aggression be passed on from the parrents ?


Absolutely you should expect DA if they are APBT's it's already been in the gene pools for many years but HA is not normal in our breed if one of the parents are HA yes it most certainly can be passed to the offspring. You do not want an HA apbt bad news.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

pass...... :clap: way to check up and ask questions, and stick with your gut....


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Well he does not sound like an ethical breeder if it was me I would pass. But I do know you can still register a pup without the entire litter being registered the way I told you yes people do it but if you don't trust your breeder than you shouldn't buy anything from him.


 Oh well i know nothing at all about genetics so can HA and DA be passed form parrents ? Sorry if thats a dumb question but i have no idea and if so then theres no way because the father will eat a person up, he even attacked the man and was ordered to be put down but they never did .

I couldnt get one right now if i wanted to , but when the time comes to get a pup im gonna find someone else .


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks everyone ! I wasnt for sure on the whole aggression thing , i will NOT take one , i appreciate the advise . The fact tey was free threw me off right away .


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> Oh well i know nothing at all about genetics so can HA and DA be passed form parrents ? Sorry if thats a dumb question but i have no idea and if so then theres no way because the father will eat a person up, he even attacked the man and was ordered to be put down but they never did .
> 
> I couldnt get one right now if i wanted to , but when the time comes to get a pup im gonna find someone else .


No not a dumb question that is what we are here for... Yes HA & DA can both be passed on from parent to offspring. It's completely normal for the APBT to show signs of DA at some point because of their history of dog fighting they have been selectively bred for DA and it's carried on in the gene pools. Now HA is not a normal trait for these dogs and should not be in the gene pools if you know that a breeder is breeding dogs with HA tendencies you do not want to buy a dog from him or her. HA is a serious flaw in our breed they are not guard dogs and were never bred to be aggressive towards humans. If a breeder is breeding an HA dog then it's very likely that will be passed off to some if not all of the offspring.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Angel some breeders do not want to register litters but you can still do a single registration on those pups if you have the seller complete the info on the parents and you have their numbers. I did this with AVA Marty never registered AVA or her brother but when I got her I was able to register doing a single registration with the ADBA But I had all the parents info and Marty's signature verifying she was off the parents that were already registered. Not everyone registers their dogs or litters even if they can just an FYI. Especially with game bred dogs some guys do not like to keep paper trails. I am not saying that is the case here I can only speak from my own experience.


ya I know that but with the sounds of it this guy is BS'n , saying it cost too much is a cop out . if anything he could say they are pure and atleast show the papers, sounds fishy though. most that are legit and have pure dogs but choose not to register them can tell you anything about the lines and know it like the back of there hand and atleast have something even if only in writing to show the lineage.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

angelbaby said:


> ya I know that but with the sounds of it this guy is BS'n , saying it cost too much is a cop out . if anything he could say they are pure and atleast show the papers, sounds fishy though. most that are legit and have pure dogs but choose not to register them can tell you anything about the lines and know it like the back of there hand and atleast have something even if only in writing to show the lineage.


I agree that's why I told her to ask the guy to show her the registration papers or pedigree's sent from the registry on both dogs to verify if what he is saying is in fact true if he can't produce anything he's lying. I don't advise she get a dog from the guy but I am just letting her know it can be done if you have all the info I listed above.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> No not a dumb question that is what we are here for... Yes HA & DA can both be passed on from parent to offspring. It's completely normal for the APBT to show signs of DA at some point because of their history of dog fighting they have been selectively bred for DA and it's carried on in the gene pools. Now HA is not a normal trait for these dogs and should not be in the gene pools if you know that a breeder is breeding dogs with HA tendencies you do not want to buy a dog from him or her. HA is a serious flaw in our breed they are not guard dogs and were never bred to be aggressive towards humans. If a breeder is breeding an HA dog then it's very likely that will be passed off to some if not all of the offspring.


Okay i will def. pass . I cant even go near the fence or i would get ate , i have to stand there until the dog drives him nuts and then he will come out the gate and scream til they hush ,it got loose one day and i fell in the snow trying to run it off and it snaped at me and has attacked my dogs idk how many times , i hate to say it but it needs put down .


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> I agree that's why I told her to ask the guy to show her the registration papers or pedigree's sent from the registry on both dogs to verify if what he is saying is in fact true if he can't produce anything he's lying. I don't advise she get a dog from the guy but I am just letting her know it can be done if you have all the info I listed above.


Yeah he just dosent wanna admit there mixed so he said that cause he thinks i know nothing ,he told me i had a rednose pit and his wife told me they paid 500 for the mom and that she was blue nose mix or something ? Idk if thats possible but i dont think so


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> Okay i will def. pass . I cant even go near the fence or i would get ate , i have to stand there until the dog drives him nuts and then he will come out the gate and scream til they hush ,it got loose one day and i fell in the snow trying to run it off and it snaped at me and has attacked my dogs idk how many times , i hate to say it but it needs put down .


You are correct normally when an APBT shows signs of human aggression the dog should be put down ASAP! Not bred it's a shame he bred the dog because the pups will most likely be HA too. It's normal for them to want to kill other dogs but they should not be trying to kill people. That's why when you have DA dogs you should contain them properly or give them to someone who can.


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## el_mas_chingon (Aug 17, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> its BS when they say it cost to much. If the pups arent papered they are mutts as far as that goes , if they are pure ask to see the parents papers.


WOW, LMAO. Just cuz there not "papered" , doesnt mean there mutts...lol Look @ those bullies with papers , listed as APBT... I guess there "pure" then, according to you...lol

@ the original poster, i would not worry too much about your neighbor and how he tries to do his business. If your intersted, then go for it, if not . let it be and considering rescuing one frm a shelter. Either way good luck .


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> You are correct normally when an APBT shows signs of human aggression the dog should be put down ASAP! Not bred it's a shame he bred the dog because the pups will most likely be HA too. It's normal for them to want to kill other dogs but they should not be trying to kill people. That's why when you have DA dogs you should contain them properly or give them to someone who can.


 I think the humane society should step in ,again ,but they wont do anything about it . He has them beside the road where i was walking my pit but then he told me my dog made his wild orsomething like that so i walk her up the road now instead ,they are in some chain link thing he made that they can and will jump ! I feel bad for all the animals ... his wife told me at the store that the vet told them that it was time to put their 14 year old poodle down because shes blind,cant breath right or something and cant walk,shes still up there .


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

el_mas_chingon said:


> WOW, LMAO. Just cuz there not "papered" , doesnt mean there mutts...lol Look @ those bullies with papers , listed as APBT... I guess there "pure" then, according to you...lol
> 
> @ the original poster, i would not worry too much about your neighbor and how he tries to do his business. If your intersted, then go for it, if not . let it be and considering rescuing one frm a shelter. Either way good luck .


Oh i know i cant take another dog at the moment anyways i was just asking cause it didnt add up to me,and i just rescued a shihtzu from the shelter that was due to be put down , i dont need any more right now , thanks .


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> Oh i know i cant take another dog at the moment anyways i was just asking cause it didnt add up to me,and i just rescued a shihtzu from the shelter that was due to be put down , i dont need any more right now , thanks .


Paper's are only good if you trust the man behind the dogs. If the breeder is bogus and dishonest the papers are most likely bogus too. I would not deal with a breeder I did not trust it's good you are holding off.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Paper's are only good if you trust the man behind the dogs. If the breeder is bogus and dishonest the papers are most likely bogus too. I would not deal with a breeder I did not trust it's good you are holding off.


Thank you,and i wont , sorry if you already said this but is there anything to look for when getting a pup with papers ? Like certain things that it should have on it or what the dog should have ? And i know lots of you have TONS of experience and i have very little if any , but does anyone have more than one DA pitbull ?


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## el_mas_chingon (Aug 17, 2011)

Then leave the man and his family alone, calling HSUS, on him , just because your not agreeing with the way he does things , will cause so much trouble and will destroy ones life. Folks not minding there business, when it comes to this breed, have done just that, DESTROY LIVES. JMO


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

el_mas_chingon said:


> Then leave the man and his family alone, calling HSUS, on him , just because your not agreeing with the way he does things , will cause so much trouble and will destroy ones life. Folks not minding there business, when it comes to this breed, have done just that, DESTROY LIVES. JMO


Okay ? he has 40 some cats and 8 dogs and they have threatened him before and even set traps on his dogs ? Im not calling them i just think they should step in for the animals ? We all have opinions and mine is that if e cant take care of them and they are getting out and trying to hurt people and they KILLED my friends little dog then something should be done . Sorry but thats how i feel


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> Thank you,and i wont , sorry if you already said this but is there anything to look for when getting a pup with papers ? Like certain things that it should have on it or what the dog should have ? And i know lots of you have TONS of experience and i have very little if any , but does anyone have more than one DA pitbull ?


look for ch and gr ch in the peds  it really depends on what your looking for though like what blood line you like



el_mas_chingon said:


> . Folks not minding there business, when it comes to this breed, have done just that, DESTROY LIVES. JMO


couldnt agree more chingo


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> look for ch and gr ch in the peds  it really depends on what your looking for though like what blood line you like


Okay stupid question again what does that mean ? When i got my pitbull i never asked any q's but now i think i should before i ever get another one just to make sure im getting what i paid for in a way ,


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> Okay stupid question again what does that mean ? When i got my pitbull i never asked any q's but now i think i should before i ever get another one just to make sure im getting what i paid for in a way ,


ch is champion and gr ch is grand champion, look for titled dogs it means people actually did something with the dogs. make sure that the breeder has a goal and a reason for breeding that is to do better for the breed or the dogs he/she produces if that makes sense


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> ch is champion and gr ch is grand champion, look for titled dogs it means people actually did something with the dogs. make sure that the breeder has a goal and a reason for breeding that is to do better for the breed or the dogs he/she produces if that makes sense


 Oh okay thank you


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> ch is champion and gr ch is grand champion, look for titled dogs it means people actually did something with the dogs. make sure that the breeder has a goal and a reason for breeding that is to do better for the breed or the dogs he/she produces if that makes sense


While i do agree with this statement i also (personally) feel that show titles on working dogs are useless. Its great that they accomplished and all but when i look at working dogs, i want to see the dogs continuously bred for and proven for working abilities..

Papers are quite meaningless unless your plans are showing or breeding. Of course some sports depending on what your looking to do can also call for papers for various reasons however generally in the working environment, its not.

Papers are important and a pretty "standard" way of knowing exactly what your getting though its not the only way. Papers can be hung so no matter where you get a pup you need to ensure that the breeder is trustworthy. Some breeders still to do this day "pencil in" what they have and keep proper records for every dog on their yard without going through registries. Though this is more or less a "dying art" not to mention if you go through someone you may be unfamiliar with the gamble is huge.

IMO theres a reason this person(s) cant get rid of the pups for the original asking price and now free. Screams all kind of red flags.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> While i do agree with this statement i also (personally) feel that show titles on working dogs are useless. Its great that they accomplished and all but when i look at working dogs, i want to see the dogs continuously bred for and proven for working abilities..
> 
> Papers are quite meaningless unless your plans are showing or breeding. Of course some sports depending on what your looking to do can also call for papers for various reasons however generally in the working environment, its not.
> 
> ...


to be honest though i dont think they're lookin for a working dog. if she was i guess they'd be looking for dogs with ace in the peds. if i spend money on a dog id atleast like to have the option to show it, it never hurts.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> to be honest though i dont think they're lookin for a working dog. if she was i guess they'd be looking for dogs with ace in the peds. if i spend money on a dog id atleast like to have the option to show it, it never hurts.


True, probably should look at another breed if your looking for show or as a pet only. Just my opinion on that though.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> True, probably should look at another breed if your looking for show or as a pet only. Just my opinion on that though.


we already know each other stands on the subject. but i'll say a high drive dog should be placed in a working home and not placed as a pet. the average joe cant handle a high drive dog imo.


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## el_mas_chingon (Aug 17, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> True, probably should look at another breed . Just my opinion on that though.





stonerreakinhavok said:


> we already know each other stands on the subject. but i'll say a high drive dog should be placed in a working home and not placed as a pet. the average joe cant handle a high drive dog imo.


eggzachery!!!


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

i saw this chart thing while lookin at bearded dragons once and i think that its kinda a good system just modify some of the catagories

*Hold Back Quality *- 5 out of 5, a dragon that exeeded my expectations for that specific breeding. Based on Color, Bloodlines, Genetics, Pattern, Size, Age and somtimes Sex..
*Breeder Quality *- 4 out of 5, a dragon that met my expectations for that specific breeding. Based on Color, Bloodlines, Genetics, Pattern, Size, Age and somtimes Sex..
*Show Quality* - 3 out of 5, a dragon that just missed being Breeder Quality for that specific breeding. Based on Color, Bloodlines, Genetics, Pattern, Size, Age and somtimes Sex..
*Pet Quality* - 2 out of 5, because of the quality of our bloodlines and genetics only a small percent meet this criteria . Based mainly on Color and or Pattern ( Other than color and or pattern the dragon will make a great pet to enjoy for years to come ).

given these guys breed everything under the sun and breed for colors and deformations but if you tweak the scale and catagories i think there might be something

5 categories for apbts
drive
confirmation/bone structure
bite
endurance
strength


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> we already know each other stands on the subject. but i'll say a high drive dog should be placed in a working home and not placed as a pet. the average joe cant handle a high drive dog imo.


 I couldnt agree more,i already have one APBT and she has a high drive so yes i do work her just not to the extreme , and im not wanting one at the moment i was just offered this and got to thinking it didnt add up to me ?


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> I couldnt agree more,i already have one APBT and she has a high drive so yes i do work her just not to the extreme , and im not wanting one at the moment i was just offered this and got to thinking it didnt add up to me ?


it doesnt... id still like to see what he comes up with as far as papers go though


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> True, probably should look at another breed if your looking for show or as a pet only. Just my opinion on that though.


Yes i already have one apbt and i do work her just not as intense as others would , im not looking for a show dog and it would be a pet but my belief is pitbulls need to be worked cause they have a high drive and lots of energy imo . So yeah it would be worked,im not getting one right now its just the man offered one to me and i didnt think it seamed to add up . The reason i asked on what to look for on papers is because i want to know that im not being cheated and that its purebred,im not sure why but i always though razors edge i think its called and gator pit were nice .

So no real need for papers but i just thought about getting one with them .


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> Yes i already have one apbt and i do work her just not as intense as others would , im not looking for a show dog and it would be a pet but my belief is pitbulls need to be worked cause they have a high drive and lots of energy imo . So yeah it would be worked,im not getting one right now its just the man offered one to me and i didnt think it seamed to add up . The reason i asked on what to look for on papers is because i want to know that im not being cheated and that its purebred,im not sure why but i always though razors edge i think its called and gator pit were nice .
> 
> So no real need for papers but i just thought about getting one with them .


you know razor edge are bullys right? theres no such thing as gator pits just dogs that came off of plumbers dog, crenshaws dog, and if im not mistaken theres one more named gator or alligator but i cant remember the name. so your saying that your neighbors dogs are american bullys? lol your not really getting cheated if hes offering it up for free and you know  doesnt add up imo.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

IMO theres a reason this person(s) cant get rid of the pups for the original asking price and now free. Screams all kind of red flags.[/QUOTE]

It did to me too, they said she had 8 and one died , but they just couldnt sell them or something,i knew somethin was up when the woman kept changing prices cause the first time the dog got pregnant she said it was an accident yet they was in the same kennel and that they was going to the pound . Now there free ? They are the kind of person who acts like there dogs are so great and expensive , lol some people these days :hammer:


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> you know razor edge are bullys right? theres no such thing as gator pits just dogs that came off of plumbers dog, crenshaws dog, and if im not mistaken theres one more named gator or alligator but i cant remember the name. so your saying that your neighbors dogs are american bullys? lol your not really getting cheated if hes offering it up for free and you know  doesnt add up imo.


 Yes and im not saying thats what he has im saying thats the kind i think are nice ,lol there not bullys the male is papered and is apbt although the mom looks like a short beagle pit mix IMO

sorry if i confused you


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

the dogs coulda very well cost em an arm and a leg but it dont mean they're worth it you can find poorly bred dogs online its common with bullys right now cuz they're a fad


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

they paper bullys as apbts all the time, short pit mix? she kinda stocky or wide?


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> the dogs coulda very well cost em an arm and a leg but it dont mean they're worth it you can find poorly bred dogs online its common with bullys right now cuz they're a fad


I know , the only reason i know the male has papers is because she had to brag to me one day about them and showed them to me idk what they was supposed to look like cause i havent seen one but it had just a bunch of writing ? i wish i had a pic of the mom she has to be a mutt,she does resemble a pitbull but her ears throw me off,they remind me of a beagle and shes so short . I wanna do some research on the bloodlines and stuff too before i get one , around here they go for about 150$ sometimes down to $50. I know nothing about a pedigree,well i do for rabbits cause i raised them but not dogs , lol


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> they paper bullys as apbts all the time, short pit mix? she kinda stocky or wide?


she dosent look like a bully at all the dad looks like a razor edge pitbull to me but anyways shes thin made like mine and has some muscles like mine and head the same too but she has some droopy ears so kinda stocky i guess ? When she was 6 months old she look like a pitbull but now i dont see it . Mine is apbt and they tried to say mine was rednose which i know nothing about ?


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> it doesnt... id still like to see what he comes up with as far as papers go though


Yeah im going to try and walk up when there out so i dont get bit and ask him , im sure i will get some crazy excuse , im gonna look at the pups too , see they have this pitboxer mix also that was there the whole time while she was in heat and i think even if the parrents are papered , who knows , the boxer mix could be the father of the litter ?


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## el_mas_chingon (Aug 17, 2011)




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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> I know , the only reason i know the male has papers is because she had to brag to me one day about them and showed them to me idk what they was supposed to look like cause i havent seen one but it had just a bunch of writing ? i wish i had a pic of the mom she has to be a mutt,she does resemble a pitbull but her ears throw me off,they remind me of a beagle and shes so short . I wanna do some research on the bloodlines and stuff too before i get one , around here they go for about 150$ sometimes down to $50. I know nothing about a pedigree,well i do for rabbits cause i raised them but not dogs , lol


it should be about the same shouldnt it? i never had a dog with peds or papers either. but the peds show the blood line and will tell you who or what kennels bred them. then ussually those people stick to breeding a certain type of dogs. so yah... but just because a dog is registered as one thing doesnt always mean its not something else. since the american bully didnt get recognized as its own breed till recently compared to other breeds. but they registered them as apbts. they could do this by using dual registered american staffordshire terriers that where akc regged as am staffs and ukc regged as apbts so they mixed the dual regged am staffs with the apbt to make the first bullys who's papers technically put them as apbts, check out the thred in bullys 101 throwin knuckles. all this info is from what i read and understand out of it.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

i think thats what they called her a staffordshire terrier,so there not purebred if hes bully ? I know i sound so dumb right now but im so new to this , and yeah but when i raised rabbit the pedigres were easy , i guess cause i was used to them ? Although they had 4th generation and grand champion so yeah it is the same


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

well i just went on bullies 101(which i didnt know about) and yes thats what he is ! Identical to those , hes tan with brindle on him ,so i guess if shes apbt and hes bully then they are mixed right ?


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> well i just went on bullies 101(which i didnt know about) and yes thats what he is ! Identical to those , hes tan with brindle on him ,so i guess if shes apbt and hes bully then they are mixed right ?


lol i dont think shes apbt well but if she was i'd call em mutts. some one else might not but thats just me technically they still might be purebred but im not sure. the american bully kennel club might accept dogs breed to apbts because of the limited gene pool of the american bully but i heard that they were gonna stop regging because they think they have enough blood to sustain the breed with out crossing into apbt now i guess its just what i heard and kind of understand im not big into bullys. im sure theres some one that has a better grasp on the subject than i do and can explain it better though


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Okay i think i may try and talk to her a little and see if i can get to look at papers , the way i see it is they are mixed i know everyone has got their opinion but thats just mine , well thanks for your help,glad i didnt take one !  Oh and if she dosent show me papers i will ask her bloodline,but it will be a while before i find out cause i dont like to go up there unless someones out and he works so idk when it will be / id rather not talk to the woman cause she lied and said they was registered pups ! Lol


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

and i dont think she is either cause apbt are not short with floppy ears,the mother only weighs like 50 some pouns i think and shes almost a year ? My dog is 10 months and weighs about 75 and has a medium head,muscles obviously and built like a working pitbull IMO . But i got my girl from a breeder who i could trust !


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## el_mas_chingon (Aug 17, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> My dog is 10 months and weighs about 75 and has a medium head,muscles obviously and built like a working pitbull IMO .


Im starting to think you may have a mix on your hands as well ...lol


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

el_mas_chingon said:


> Im starting to think you may have a mix on your hands as well ...lol


hahah no, why because of her pic ?


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

shes all apbt !


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

>_< apbts shouldnt hit more than 65 lbs generally.... a working pit bull should look something like this

conditioned
tom garners china man








perfomance kennels tempest









maybe add 10 lbs at chain weight or in the off season
also 70 is a little big even at chain weight


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> >_< apbts shouldnt hit more than 65 lbs generally.... a working pit bull should look something like this
> 
> conditioned
> 
> ...


i dont condition her ? never have sometimes she works but not all that stuff like pulling and stuff . She might be 70 idk she goes to the vet the 26th but im guessing cause last time i weighed her she was about 65 , she could loose a few pounds though because she eats alot ?


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

shes not a working pitbull ? just apbt by working her i ment getting all her energy out not conditioning and weights and pulling and stuff like that .sorry im confused


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

pks dog is around 45 lbs shes a working dog most working apbts your gonna see probably look like that during season i think pks dogs look like that all year. but these are working dogs.

im not quiet sure how much china man weighs though i would estimate under fifty conditioned


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> pks dog is around 45 lbs shes a working dog most working apbts your gonna see probably look like that during season i think pks dogs look like that all year. but these are working dogs.
> 
> im not quiet sure how much china man weighs though i would estimate under fifty conditioned


Okay ? But mines not a working dog and has never been conditioned ? EVER therfore its okay for her to be 70 pounds, she is pure apbt , the breeder has raised them their whole lives .


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> Okay ? But mines not a working dog and has never been conditioned ? EVER therfore its okay for her to be 70 pounds, she is pure apbt , the breeder has raised them their whole lives .


70 is more characteristic of a bully but you cant say whether your dogs pure bred or not with out papers. or knowing your dogs ancestory whether its a ped or actually knowing the sire and dams ancestory.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

my dogs parents are registered just not sure of the name it has been almost a year since i seen the ped . the guy was gonna register them but at the time i didnt care , my dog looks like urs and alot of other peoples on here a normal apbt .  anyways i havent slept all day so i will reply later


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> pks dog is around 45 lbs shes a working dog most working apbts your gonna see probably look like that during season i think pks dogs look like that all year. but these are working dogs.
> 
> im not quiet sure how much china man weighs though i would estimate under fifty conditioned


chinaman was 44 pounds conditioned. my absolute favorite dog, ever.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

lol uhm my dogs a mutt...


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

pitbullove said:


> my dogs parents are registered just not sure of the name it has been almost a year since i seen the ped . the guy was gonna register them but at the time i didnt care , my dog looks like urs and alot of other peoples on here a normal apbt .  anyways i havent slept all day so i will reply later


your dog doesnt look like a bully to me, just a bit overweight. i dont exactly keep my dogs conditioned either.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

rob32 said:


> chinaman was 44 pounds conditioned. my absolute favorite dog, ever.


how much at chain like 56? or did tg always keep him conditioned?


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> lol uhm my dogs a mutt...


lol a pretty one ? you get my point,the parrents have papers,mine isnt a mutt,a few of my others are though  I hate when people say my dog is mixed i paid alot of money for my dog and her parrents were papered weatehr she looks it or not, and to me she does .


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

rob32 said:


> your dog doesnt look like a bully to me, just a bit overweight. i dont exactly keep my dogs conditioned either.


thank you , but honestly do you think she looks apbt ? I wouldnt lie about it i dont see why some people say shes mixed ?


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

lol according to the wife his dad was huge way above any standard for apbt 30ish inches tall but was regged as one with the ckc and his momma was an akc regged red heeler accidental breeding prob like your neighbors. but he stands 23 or 24 tall 70lbs or so non conditioned i've been slackin off with drag weights and taking him to play, he was 65 before we moved to california he was conditioned pretty well not as much as tempest or chinaman but he was lean and and you could see the muscle on his ribs but not couldnt see his spine. 

you can still get the papers if you want its not bad to have you can find out your dogs blood line. lol thats something that always intrests me i'm still learning bloodlines and dogs but im tryin my hardest.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

chain weight of 52 pounds.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> thank you , but honestly do you think she looks apbt ? I wouldnt lie about it i dont see why some people say shes mixed ?


apbts look different every one had a different formula back in the day, there was no real standard working dogs shouldnt have standards they're bred for a task and not to be pretty or fit a certain look.

here are some examples...
gr ch bucky mc coy









24xw colby pincher









gr ch mayday rom









ch gator









ch jeep rom









given they arent all the same time period or weight but it proves my point.
some people are just used to seeing 45 lb dogs its the norm for them


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

pitbullove said:


> thank you , but honestly do you think she looks apbt ? I wouldnt lie about it i dont see why some people say shes mixed ?


i will say this....nothing about her look suggests mutt to me. but, like everyone else says, without a pedigree you cant know for sure. if you say both her parents were registered as APBT then im sure shes fine. possible there is some bully in there with the breeding practices the way they are nowadays but she really doesnt look it. thats why i suggest to everyone that when they go out and actually buy a dog, find out a little about them. i know everything i could find out with my limited resources about the bloodlines of both my pure bred animals. dont just look to see if they have "papers" actually learn what all the writing on those papers mean


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

also dont worry about what any one says about your dog. you feed it you love it they dont... so their opinion doesnt really matter


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> also dont worry about what any one says about your dog. you feed it you love it they dont... so their opinion doesnt really matter


yeah, i agree with you there. ive had all kinds of dogs from chihuahuas to labs and even owned a bully years ago before they got popular. loved em all.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

el_mas_chingon said:


> WOW, LMAO. Just cuz there not "papered" , doesnt mean there mutts...lol Look @ those bullies with papers , listed as APBT... I guess there "pure" then, according to you...lol
> 
> .


If a dog doesnt have papers or a writen pedigree of some sort showing there ancestors there is no way to tell if its pure or not , so mutt mix whatever you want to call it. Here the law states you can not advertise as pure bred without proof of it , so even if it is pure without the documents to back it up it would be considered a mix. The bullys is a whole other subject but if they have papers to show there history they are pure , may not be pure APBT but pure am bully.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> apbts look different every one had a different formula back in the day, there was no real standard working dogs shouldnt have standards they're bred for a task and not to be pretty or fit a certain look.
> 
> here are some examples...
> gr ch bucky mc coy
> ...


i think she looks like the one in the 3rd pic . Lol


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

rob32 said:


> i will say this....nothing about her look suggests mutt to me. but, like everyone else says, without a pedigree you cant know for sure. if you say both her parents were registered as APBT then im sure shes fine. possible there is some bully in there with the breeding practices the way they are nowadays but she really doesnt look it. thats why i suggest to everyone that when they go out and actually buy a dog, find out a little about them. i know everything i could find out with my limited resources about the bloodlines of both my pure bred animals. dont just look to see if they have "papers" actually learn what all the writing on those papers mean


Thank you , i know the parents had papers but i know nothing about her bloodlines or anything so is there anyway i could get papers on her ?


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

pitbullove said:


> Thank you , i know the parents had papers but i know nothing about her bloodlines or anything so is there anyway i could get papers on her ?


if both parents are registered dogs then you can get papers on your girl, yes. i dont know the entire process so someone else would probably be able to answer better than me. if youre still in touch with the person that you got her from thats good cause youll probably need some info from them.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

rob32 said:


> i will say this....nothing about her look suggests mutt to me. but, like everyone else says, without a pedigree you cant know for sure. if you say both her parents were registered as APBT then im sure shes fine. possible there is some bully in there with the breeding practices the way they are nowadays but she really doesnt look it. thats why i suggest to everyone that when they go out and actually buy a dog, find out a little about them. i know everything i could find out with my limited resources about the bloodlines of both my pure bred animals. dont just look to see if they have "papers" actually learn what all the writing on those papers mean


Your dog is a "pet bull", AmBully mix or some variation of a mutt. 60 - 70 + pounds for the APBT is huge in itself, looks nothing like any whopper i've seen.

The APBT is a working class dog, perfected for the [] but overall excels in virtually all kinds of work. High energy, high drive. I wouldn't call your dog an APBT honestly but some people have more of a "slack" definition so some may call your dog this.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> Your dog is a "pet bull", AmBully mix or some variation of a mutt. 60 - 70 + pounds for the APBT is huge in itself, looks nothing like any whopper i've seen.
> 
> The APBT is a working class dog, perfected for the [] but overall excels in virtually all kinds of work. High energy, high drive. I wouldn't call your dog an APBT honestly but some people have more of a "slack" definition so some may call your dog this.


Well anyways both parrents are papered so obviuosly she is pure apbt , but we all got our opinions , and she is not a mutt . A mutt is a mixed breed,for example lab and pitbull now thats a mutt .


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> Well anyways both parrents are papered so obviuosly she is pure apbt , but we all got our opinions , and she is not a mutt . A mutt is a mixed breed,for example lab and pitbull now thats a mutt .


Papers can be hung, all i'm really going to say is if your dog wasn't bred for the purpose of the breed, rather bred for the enjoyment as a pet papers or not your dog is a "Pet Bull".

Theres no harm in it, not many people want an APBT, they think they do but they dont. Its your dog and enjoy her as she is, not knowing her history leaves you up in the air and to be put bluntly, insulting. But its your dog not mine, no matter what she is shouldn't change how view and love her.

American Bullies are papered all the time as APBT's, papers are hung quite often by BYB's.

Experience is key. Within time.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> Your dog is a "pet bull", AmBully mix or some variation of a mutt. 60 - 70 + pounds for the APBT is huge in itself, looks nothing like any whopper i've seen.
> 
> The APBT is a working class dog, perfected for the [] but overall excels in virtually all kinds of work. High energy, high drive. I wouldn't call your dog an APBT honestly but some people have more of a "slack" definition so some may call your dog this.


and she dosent have bully in her ? Her father was a working dog who weighed less than her and bothe parrents had pedigrees! She has never been worked or condition so obvuiously she is gonna look diffrent ?! I said i ws guessing thats hiw much idk ? And this is why i dont say anything about my dog theres always someone who wants to start saying shes a mutt , i paid alot of money for my dog because her parents had the papers,if they didnt i dont think i would have paid that much , im gonna try my best to find out her bloodlines so that i can prove a point !


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> Papers can be hung.


you mean what by that ?


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

im tired of all this , my dogs parents ARE papered , and she doesnt have bully in her and im pretty sure her dad had some sort of champion bloodline or something like that , the breeders have raised dogs for years .


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> you mean what by that ?


Papers hung is a BYB thing. The best way i can explain it is that someone who "breds" dogs steals another breeders ped, registration #'s etc and registers the breeding under a lie. They will also take dogs that are dead and "make up" peds to ensure a sell. Anything that can make their pups look "better" and the "real deal" they will do.

I've also seen where someone took a bunch of random bulldog photos and made up a ped for the pups to sell. Little did that person know over half the dogs used were dead.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> im tired of all this , my dogs parents ARE papered , and she doesnt have bully in her and im pretty sure her dad had some sort of champion bloodline or something like that , the breeders have raised dogs for years .


You don't know the bloodlines, or do you? If you don't know what the bloodlines are at very least you honestly have no idea what is in her.

Im not trying to offend you or your dogs so relax a bit. You should love your dog no matter what, yes?


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> You don't know the bloodlines, or do you? If you don't know what the bloodlines are at very least you honestly have no idea what is in her.
> 
> Im not trying to offend you or your dogs so relax a bit. You should love your dog no matter what, yes?


Im sorry for that , i cant help but get offensive when someone says my dog is mixed,if shes mixed than its with bully because i know she dosent have anything else in her, her mom may have been bully,im not sure ?

I cant reamber the bloodlines and i dont know their # to call and ask , but they have raised em for years, so shes either pure apbt or is apbt and bully , which do you think ? I seen the parrents and i know they are one of the two , either bully or apbt .


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

so maybe she does have bully in her idk im so confused i know both parents were purebred and i was told were apbt maybe one of the parents was bully ?


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Someone please help me, if they ban pitbulls where you live do you have to givee them up ? BSL is being decided on in ky and it just keeps getting closer to my area !


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

pitbullove said:


> Someone please help me, if they ban pitbulls where you live do you have to givee them up ? BSL is being decided on in ky and it just keeps getting closer to my area !


Well given you don't have papers even if you don't believe she is mixed you could get away with saying shes a mix. You could probably say shes a boxer mix and get away with it though normally bans will include any dog that even remotely "resembles" a "pit bull".

Sometimes they will allow existing owners the right to keep their dogs under restrictions. Some of those restrictions can be muzzled out in public, must be kept in a 6' x 6' pen with a height restriction, mandatory spay/neuter, etc.

It all depends on whats in the ban in terms of legislation and how strictly it is enforced. All places are going to be different.

Part of owning an APBT (or any variation or resemblance) is subject to these laws and people have to make a choice. Are you willing to move? Willing to abide? Or willing to risk having your dog pts by not abiding laws. Its just a fact of life right now as unfortunate and unfair it is. Its known BSL doesn't work but that doesn't stop demand once areas begin to have "problems" with dog bites and this breed.

Hardly anyone owns an APBT much less does the public know what one is. Most believe these dogs are large, majority are American Bullies or mixes that are mislabeled.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Love your dog as she's your companion. If a pedigree is important, you should get it. I personally wouldn't have paid much without REALLY knowing what I was getting. You can't defend your dogs lineage without knowing it personally. With that being said, love her and respect her. She will return it back.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

if your scared be active in your community fight for your dogs rights, get all the people in your town that you know to help you fight it the more people they know oppose the ban the less likely the chance they'll pass something


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks everyone, i do love my dog and she shows love back , i just wanted papers so that people would quit calling her a mutt and stuff . And in my neighborhood people hate pitbulls because of my neighbors that this post is about they have killed so many dogs and injured others including one of mine ,when they tried to get those peoples pits put down everyone was all for it so i dont see much luck but i am going to try ! I will not loose my dog i will move if i have too ! I cant believe such a thing even exsists ! I have seen scarier chows than pitbull,what is wrong with people ?


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

:hammer: Ok let me clear this up : my dog to my knowledge is purebred APBT,HOWEVER she could have bully in her because thats what her dad reminds me of but i was tol that both parents were registered apbt and if one parent is mixed with bully or is bully then i understand it would kinda make her mixed breed in a way ,but i just dont lie the thought of my dog being considered a mutt, a mutt to me is lab mix or dalmatian and beagle mixes for example . I really am sorry to those i have confused i just didnt understand at first i thought she ment that my dog had some other breed like lab or something she is either bully apbt mix or just apbt !


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

... hey its all way more simple ... as well as complicated, but let those who dont understand deal with that.

Stratton, Colby, and others.. there all bandogs or bulldogs unless proven  then they're APBTs by the founding standards of the UKC the USA's oldest.

just because laws change, doesnt mean the function that makes the dog does~ 

its over they're head and over they're feet.. if you can see you will see if you can hear you will hear~

best of luck..


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> ... hey its all way more simple ... as well as complicated, but let those who dont understand deal with that.
> 
> Stratton, Colby, and others.. there all bandogs or bulldogs unless proven  then they're APBTs by the founding standards of the UKC the USA's oldest.
> 
> ...


Okay thank you !


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I think people get upset over the word mutt they think its like the bad word of dogs , mutt is nothing more then a mix same thing. Personally if you dont have papers in your hand or seen the parents papers and can get a copy of them somehow or know the names on there you have no proof that your dog is pure. Most american bullys are registered through the UKC as APBT's still you need to see the names on the ped to determine what blood is in your dog to determine if she is a APBT or am bully. What if the papers he showed you dont belong to the dogs that were the parents there are breeders who do that as well , giving them reason they cant register the pups. If you want a show dog or a dog just with papers best to find a breeder who registers there litters and can show proof of there dogs heritage before going home with a pup. There is nothing wrong with having a mutt or mix breed especially with the BSL all over the place if I had a unpaperded dog who I couldnt show proof of breed it would be easier to just label as a cross why do you think shelters adopt out dogs that look pure APBT as lab or boxer X's ? they are more accepted in more places then our beloved breed. Appreciate her for who she is you love her as she loves you and im sure she is a great pet who cares what anyone says and a mutt isnt a bad thing at all.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> I think people get upset over the word mutt they think its like the bad word of dogs , mutt is nothing more then a mix same thing. Personally if you dont have papers in your hand or seen the parents papers and can get a copy of them somehow or know the names on there you have no proof that your dog is pure. Most american bullys are registered through the UKC as APBT's still you need to see the names on the ped to determine what blood is in your dog to determine if she is a APBT or am bully. What if the papers he showed you dont belong to the dogs that were the parents there are breeders who do that as well , giving them reason they cant register the pups. If you want a show dog or a dog just with papers best to find a breeder who registers there litters and can show proof of there dogs heritage before going home with a pup. There is nothing wrong with having a mutt or mix breed especially with the BSL all over the place if I had a unpaperded dog who I couldnt show proof of breed it would be easier to just label as a cross why do you think shelters adopt out dogs that look pure APBT as lab or boxer X's ? they are more accepted in more places then our beloved breed. Appreciate her for who she is you love her as she loves you and im sure she is a great pet who cares what anyone says and a mutt isnt a bad thing at all.


theres 2 point of views. all dogs are mixed, or all dogs come from the same source except over the years they've been bred selectively for different traits. so they're all either mutts or the same thing


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> :hammer: Ok let me clear this up : my dog to my knowledge is purebred APBT,HOWEVER she could have bully in her because thats what her dad reminds me of but i was tol that both parents were registered apbt and if one parent is mixed with bully or is bully then i understand it would kinda make her mixed breed in a way ,but i just dont lie the thought of my dog being considered a mutt, a mutt to me is lab mix or dalmatian and beagle mixes for example . I really am sorry to those i have confused i just didnt understand at first i thought she ment that my dog had some other breed like lab or something she is either bully apbt mix or just apbt !


A mutt is a dog whose linage you cannot prove there is nothing proving where the dog comes from bloodline wise. It's a dog of unknown linage or heritage. Even if your dogs parents are registered unless you have a pedigree on file there is no way to tell what breed of dog you own. Looking at your dog she appears to be a pit bull mix. That simply means we can see physical characteristics of an APBT but without a pedigree telling us where she comes from we have to assume she is a mix. Mix or Mutt same thing. You can call your dog whatever you want but because of breed mislabeling/identification by BSL and media outlets it's best you refer to your dog as a Pitbull Mix to avoid further confusion in the public eye. When you see stories about many of these so called pit bulls attacking kids a lot of them are not pure bred they are a mix breed of some sort. Pitbull is not a breed it's a term used to describe several different bulldog type breeds that would full under the terrier umbrella. APBT that is a breed and unless you have a pedigree on hand that shows you what bloodlines your dog comes from again you have to assume they are a mix or a pit bull mix of some sort. As far as the whole Bully VS Amstaff VS APBT VS staffordshire bull terrier there are a lot of threads on this site that breaks each one of these breeds down and explains the differences between them all.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Sadie said:


> A mutt is a dog whose linage you cannot prove there is nothing proving where the dog comes from bloodline wise. It's a dog of unknown linage or heritage. Even if your dogs parents are registered unless you have a pedigree on file there is no way to tell what breed of dog you own. Looking at your dog she appears to be a pit bull mix. That simply means we can see physical characteristics of an APBT but without a pedigree telling us where she comes from we have to assume she is a mix. Mix or Mutt same thing. You can call your dog whatever you want but because of breed mislabeling/identification by BSL and media outlets it's best you refer to your dog as a Pitbull Mix to avoid further confusion in the public eye. When you see stories about many of these so called pit bulls attacking kids a lot of them are not pure bred they are a mix breed of some sort. Pitbull is not a breed it's a term used to describe several different bulldog type breeds that would full under the terrier umbrella. APBT that is a breed and unless you have a pedigree on hand that shows you what bloodlines your dog comes from again you have to assume they are a mix or a pit bull mix of some sort. As far as the whole Bully VS Amstaff VS APBT VS staffordshire bull terrier there are a lot of threads on this site that breaks each one of these breeds down and explains the differences between them all.


:goodpost::clap:


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> A mutt is a dog whose linage you cannot prove there is nothing proving where the dog comes from bloodline wise. It's a dog of unknown linage or heritage. Even if your dogs parents are registered unless you have a pedigree on file there is no way to tell what breed of dog you own. Looking at your dog she appears to be a pit bull mix. That simply means we can see physical characteristics of an APBT but without a pedigree telling us where she comes from we have to assume she is a mix. Mix or Mutt same thing. You can call your dog whatever you want but because of breed mislabeling/identification by BSL and media outlets it's best you refer to your dog as a Pitbull Mix to avoid further confusion in the public eye. When you see stories about many of these so called pit bulls attacking kids a lot of them are not pure bred they are a mix breed of some sort. Pitbull is not a breed it's a term used to describe several different bulldog type breeds that would full under the terrier umbrella. APBT that is a breed and unless you have a pedigree on hand that shows you what bloodlines your dog comes from again you have to assume they are a mix or a pit bull mix of some sort. As far as the whole Bully VS Amstaff VS APBT VS staffordshire bull terrier there are a lot of threads on this site that breaks each one of these breeds down and explains the differences between them all.


 Okay thanks, and thats just my problem i seen the papers but i didnt pay any attention to if it said apbt amstaff or w/e all i know is the prrents was one of those , i wish i had their # but i lost it when we restored my pc so i guess i will never know , but i will love her no matter what .

And i volunteer at the local shelter and they have to label pitbulls even with papers as mixed so that no one uses them for fighting,but when i adopted my shihtzu a guy came in looking for pitbulls ?! and im pretty sure if someone is a dog fighter they know what a pitbull looks like, our shelter labels them as shepard mixes :flush:


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

angelbaby said:


> I think people get upset over the word mutt they think its like the bad word of dogs , mutt is nothing more then a mix same thing. Personally if you dont have papers in your hand or seen the parents papers and can get a copy of them somehow or know the names on there you have no proof that your dog is pure. Most american bullys are registered through the UKC as APBT's still you need to see the names on the ped to determine what blood is in your dog to determine if she is a APBT or am bully. What if the papers he showed you dont belong to the dogs that were the parents there are breeders who do that as well , giving them reason they cant register the pups. If you want a show dog or a dog just with papers best to find a breeder who registers there litters and can show proof of there dogs heritage before going home with a pup. There is nothing wrong with having a mutt or mix breed especially with the BSL all over the place if I had a unpaperded dog who I couldnt show proof of breed it would be easier to just label as a cross why do you think shelters adopt out dogs that look pure APBT as lab or boxer X's ? they are more accepted in more places then our beloved breed. Appreciate her for who she is you love her as she loves you and im sure she is a great pet who cares what anyone says and a mutt isnt a bad thing at all.


:goodpost:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> Okay thanks, and thats just my problem i seen the papers but i didnt pay any attention to if it said apbt amstaff or w/e all i know is the prrents was one of those , i wish i had their # but i lost it when we restored my pc so i guess i will never know , but i will love her no matter what .
> 
> And i volunteer at the local shelter and they have to label pitbulls even with papers as mixed so that no one uses them for fighting,but when i adopted my shihtzu a guy came in looking for pitbulls ?! and im pretty sure if someone is a dog fighter they know what a pitbull looks like, our shelter labels them as shepard mixes :flush:


And that's ok just because you don't have papers on your dog does not mean she is an abomination of any of the bulldog breeds out there. You just don't have anything on file to say for sure what breed you own and what bloodlines your dog comes from. If my dog get's out and kill someone's dog and animal control shows up I can prove to them what type of dogs I own by showing them pedigrees on my dogs they are all registered as APBT's with reputable registries. Which makes all the difference in the world when BSL or the Media tries to label a mixed dog of unknown linage with my pure bred dog who comes from several generations of proven heritage and selective breeding.

There are many looks of an APBT certain bloodlines show different traits and physical characteristics so one cannot just look at a dog and say I know what bloodlines that dog comes from that is why a pedigree is important.

Don't get overwhelmed you have a lot to learn and you came to the right place to learn in time what we are saying to you will start to make more sense. You just have to take your time processing everything.

So in conclusion since you don't have a pedigree your dog appears to fall under that pit bull umbrella I would just refer to her as a bit bull mix.


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> And that's ok just because you don't have papers on your dog does not mean she is an abomination of any of the bulldog breeds out there. You just don't have anything on file to say for sure what breed you own and what bloodlines your dog comes from. If my dog get's out and kill someone's dog and animal control shows up I can prove to them what type of dogs I own by showing them pedigrees on my dogs they are all registered as APBT's with reputable registries. Which makes all the difference in the world when BSL or the Media tries to label a mixed dog of unknown linage with my pure bred dog who comes from several generations of proven heritage and selective breeding.
> 
> There are many looks of an APBT certain bloodlines show different traits and physical characteristics so one cannot just look at a dog and say I know what bloodlines that dog comes from that is why a pedigree is important.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:
Okay , i totally understand ,thank you so much for explaining it ! And btw if any one can help me with my thread in health and nutrition id appreciate it lol


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> :goodpost:
> Okay , i totally understand ,thank you so much for explaining it ! And btw if any one can help me with my thread in health and nutrition id appreciate it lol


Your welcome I will go look at it now LOL


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Lol i have lots of doggy problems


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullove said:


> Lol i have lots of doggy problems


LOL That's ok that is what we are here for  I answered the Heat question for you!


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## pitbullove (Dec 22, 2010)

Okay  Idk what id do without this forum !


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