# Getting dogs fixed to "cure" aggression?



## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

I have 2 male pits and a female. The female had a little of pups a while back and is now coming back into heat and my 2 males got into a serious fight that ended up costing me 493.00 to have one of them fixed up. I am trying to find good homes for the male and female, but none of them are fixed. I was planning on having the female fixed as soon as I got some money together, the one male cannot be fixed because he cannot be put under. On top of all of that this week my father was in a bad car accident and had to be flown out AND I was laid off and am getting married in 72 days... I have 0.00 money for any of this, but I guess I will have to come up with it if you all think that fixing the female will cure most of this, at least until she finds a home. 

Feedback?


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## Oldskool Brent (Jul 1, 2009)

Google available programs. I'd like to say there is a program out there that after all is said and done costs only 50-75.00 to get your dog spayed.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm just curious. How old are the two males? And is the stud the one who can't go under anesthesia? And how long have you had them together?


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

No, the stud is the male that did the most damage. He is 7 and the other male is 3.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Have they ever been aggressive towards eachother or is it only STRICTLY when the female is in heat?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

This is normal for male APBT's not to get along especially when you have a female in heat. "fixing" the dogs may not help help at all. DA is normal in this breed. If you cannot separate them them finding home for them is the best. You can have APBT get along great for years then one day..... they don't. Again this is part of the breed and all owners need to be prepared for this scenario. Hope thing work out for you....


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> This is normal for male APBT's not to get along especially when you have a female in heat. "fixing" the dogs may not help help at all. DA is normal in this breed. If you cannot separate them them finding home for them is the best. You can have APBT get along great for years then one day..... they don't. Again this is part of the breed and all owners need to be prepared for this scenario. Hope thing work out for you....


Well the next thing that I was going to state is that sometimes an intact dog can become even more aggressive towards a fixed male..


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> Have they ever been aggressive towards eachother or is it only STRICTLY when the female is in heat?


The only time when any biting has occured has been when the female has been in heat.

Sometimes the younger male will show his teeth a bit when the older male approaches his food, but one or the other backs down.

Just going through this today really makes me wonder how people can fight dogs and get any sort of enjoyment out of that sort of thing, what a bunch of total pu#sies who are afraid to fight someone man to man and need to prove their toughness through an animal.... pathetic.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Guitarist302008 said:


> The only time when any biting has occured has been when the female has been in heat.
> 
> Sometimes the younger male will show his teeth a bit when the older male approaches his food, but one or the other backs down.
> 
> Just going through this today really makes me wonder how people can fight dogs and get any sort of enjoyment out of that sort of thing, what a bunch of total pu#sies who are afraid to fight someone man to man and need to prove their toughness through an animal.... pathetic.


Yeah it is pathetic. It's taking it a bit of subject, but I agree with you 100 percent. A lot of people say that every person trying to portray themselves as a thug, gets a pitbull because theyre misinformed and thinks they will be a vicious guard dog. I did my share of dirt that I'm not necessarily proud of, but I was a man about my beef, and the last thing I would ever resort is bringing in an animal to fight my battles..

As long as we have idiots like that (and theyre everywhere) people will continue looking for dogs through BYBs and abusing and neglecting these poor animals.

.....But back to the subject on hand, if they even show food aggression, it's already a sign of DA, and in that case you should feed them separately, in their crates perhaps. If they show signs on aggression because of a female, it doesnt mean that there won't be aggression without her presence. Once an incident has occured, it's best to keep them separated.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

There are different drugs used for anesthesia, and there might just be a different type of anesthesia they could use for your male, I would call around and check with various vets. IMO I would have all 3 altered if possible, if the older male cannot be altered, you could look into chemical castration. Unaltered males generally show the greatest chance of DA, and when a bitch is in heat it's even worse. If they try to mount your bitch she could turn on them and do damage herself. Plus an intact male can smell a bitch in heat from a long way off, so if you have a neighbor with an intact female, this aggression could catch you completely by surprise one day.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

FloorCandy said:


> There are different drugs used for anesthesia, and there might just be a different type of anesthesia they could use for your male, I would call around and check with various vets. IMO I would have all 3 altered if possible, if the older male cannot be altered, you could look into chemical castration. Unaltered males generally show the greatest chance of DA, and when a bitch is in heat it's even worse. If they try to mount your bitch she could turn on them and do damage herself. Plus an intact male can smell a bitch in heat from a long way off, so if you have a neighbor with an intact female, this aggression could catch you completely by surprise one day.


I actually called a local place and am having the female fixed on Friday. The older male can be fixed, the younger male is the one with the problem, so he will likely get his nuts wacked off next. I am so incredibly pissed off with that dog right now I won't take him out of his kennel.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

You can't blame the dog for doing what comes natural to him. Being and owner of multiple dogs you should have been prepare to separate the 2 males so a fight had never occurred. 

These dogs don't tend to get along with other dogs as they mature. It is not the dogs fault. 

Even if you fix all 3 its will not guarantee they will get along.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> You can't blame the dog so doing what come natural to him. Being and owner of multiple dogs you should have been prepare to separate the 2 males so a fight had never occurred.
> 
> These dogs don't tend to get along with other dogs as they mature. It is not the dogs fault.
> 
> Even if you fix all 3 its will not guarantee they will get along.


MAAAAAN you tell it how it is. It's normal for us to be mad.. Be mad at the situation not at the dogs... Its what they were bred for


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> You can't blame the dog so doing what come natural to him. Being and owner of multiple dogs you should have been prepare to separate the 2 males so a fight had never occurred.
> 
> These dogs don't tend to get along with other dogs as they mature. It is not the dogs fault.
> 
> Even if you fix all 3 its will not guarantee they will get along.


I'm not gonna fix all 3... i'm getting rid of 2 and hopefully that will help the situation.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

No I don't think it is going to help your situation. Surgery for the behavior issues. It can help with some tension but with this breed you can easily run into dogs not getting along. So you will still be in the same situation. You need to keep them separated so that they can't harm each other. That is what you take on when you get an APBT. Even other breeds for that matter will not always get along.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

Old_Blood said:


> No I don't think it is going to help your situation. Surgery for the behavior issues. It can help with some tension but with this breed you can easily run into dogs not getting along. So you will still be in the same situation. You need to keep them separated so that they can't harm each other. That is what you take on when you get an APBT. Even other breeds for that matter will not always get along.


I agree with you partially, however the only time i've had this problem was when the female has been in heat.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Guitarist302008 said:


> The only time when any biting has occured has been when the female has been in heat.
> 
> Sometimes the younger male will show his teeth a bit when the older male approaches his food, but one or the other backs down.
> 
> Just going through this today really makes me wonder how people can fight dogs and get any sort of enjoyment out of that sort of thing, what a bunch of total pu#sies who are afraid to fight someone man to man and need to prove their toughness through an animal.... pathetic.


Same question could be asked of people with little breed experiance or knowledge breeding dogs in there back yard,now what is worse,people fighting dogs in some remote area of the country or people breeding litters of backyard puppies to fill the pounds?


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Guitarist, unfortunately since it's even been an "almost fight" has been a disaster waiting to happen. Dog aggression can come to surface at any age with your Bully Breed. The real fight may have been triggered by the females hormones, but I PROMISE you it will happen again over the most remedial thing and it will happen so quick that you won't know what hit you. It's just something that comes with the breed. Once they've scuffled they will always have that little fire in their hearts waiting for the littlest drop of gasoline.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

cane76 said:


> Same question could be asked of people with little breed experiance or knowledge breeding dogs in there back yard,now what is worse,people fighting dogs in some remote area of the country or people breeding litters of backyard puppies to fill the pounds?


ummm, I would pick fighting dogs being worse over anything else. They have at least a chance of getting adopted if they are in a pound. I remember you asking questions about dog fighting... you seem to favor it to much for me.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Guitarist302008 said:


> ummm, I would pick fighting dogs being worse over anything else. They have at least a chance of getting adopted if they are in a pound. I remember you asking questions about dog fighting... you seem to favor it to much for me.


Dog fighting is done by a very small select group of people through out the world,Its the media that portrays it to be the #1 problem within this breed,dog fighting dosent flood the pounds with unwanted dogs,you could go your whole life without seeing a dog fighter or a fighting dog,but just go to the pound and see all the apbts and apbt mixes in there,none of those dogs are the result of dog fighting or organized dog fights but all of them are the result of byb's.
You can buy into a lie created by the media if you want and join the ranks of peta and the h.s.u.s or think deeper and see that it is backyard breeding that is this breeds #1 problem but thats your choice.Go ahead and waste your time and breath fighting against something you'll never see and know nothing about.
In my opinion you'd be best advised fixing all your dogs regardless of aggresion issues,then get up on your soap box and pontificate on the ill's of dog fighting and dog fighters until then your as much of a problem as them.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

cane76 said:


> Dog fighting is done by a very small select group of people through out the world,Its the media that portrays it to be the #1 problem within this breed,dog fighting dosent flood the pounds with unwanted dogs,you could go your whole life without seeing a dog fighter or a fighting dog,but just go to the pound and see all the apbts and apbt mixes in there,none of those dogs are the result of dog fighting or organized dog fights but all of them are the result of byb's.
> You can buy into a lie created by the media if you want and join the ranks of peta and the h.s.u.s or think deeper and see that it is backyard breeding that is this breeds #1 problem but thats your choice.Go ahead and waste your time and breath fighting against something you'll never see and know nothing about.
> In my opinion you'd be best advised fixing all your dogs regardless of aggresion issues,then get up on your soap box and pontificate on the ill's of dog fighting and dog fighters until then your as much of a problem as them.


Actually, my cousin was just asked by some local wannabe thugs to dig a hole and fill it with concrete and then he realized what it was for and refused to do it.... then a few months back the local cops busted several people who were dogfighting so don't sit there all high and mighty like you know what I have and have not seen and who I know and have met. I know all sorts of people who have done things like that, which is the reason I don't associate with them any longer. People like YOU are the ones who are ignorant to how much dogfighting IS in fact a problem making stupid threads about dogs turning on their handlers... I haven't heard you condem dog fighting... perhaps that's a hobby of yours.


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

some1 probably said this already cuz i didnt read thru the posts but there are SNAP clinics that do free spaying if u have low income or have no job....SNAP stands for Spay and Neuter Assistance Program.........check it out bro there should be one in ur area


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Guitarist302008 said:


> Actually, my cousin was just asked by some local wannabe thugs to dig a hole and fill it with concrete and then he realized what it was for and refused to do it.... then a few months back the local cops busted several people who were dogfighting so don't sit there all high and mighty like you know what I have and have not seen and who I know and have met. I know all sorts of people who have done things like that, which is the reason I don't associate with them any longer. People like YOU are the ones who are ignorant to how much dogfighting IS in fact a problem making stupid threads about dogs turning on their handlers... I haven't heard you condem dog fighting... perhaps that's a hobby of yours.


Okay!
Go breed some back yard mutt's buddy!
My advice to you,neuter/spay all your dogs.
The last thing this breed needs is another pseudo breeder with a wanna be yard.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Dang it Keith! I only want to use one quote from you so you don't get a big head, but you make it difficult! lmfao


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

cane76 said:


> Okay!
> Go breed some back yard mutt's buddy!
> My advice to you,neuter/spay all your dogs.
> The last thing this breed needs is another pseudo breeder with a wanna be yard.


When did I ever say I was a breeder? lol I see again you don't condem dogfighting... just do me a favor and stay out of my thread, you really have offered nothing to it.


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## PitBullSwagga (Jun 1, 2009)

i am battling the to neuter or not to neuter question myself...all the variables and what iff's...but ultimately i will. i don't want puppies, and neutering him will increase his focus i think.

or not- i just read in the other thread they have to be intact to show- dang. even in obedience? agility?


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

PitBullSwagga said:


> i am battling the to neuter or not to neuter question myself...all the variables and what iff's...but ultimately i will. i don't want puppies, and neutering him will increase his focus i think.
> 
> or not- i just read in the other thread they have to be intact to show- dang. even in obedience? agility?


I guess they have to be intact to see how the dog is in it's complete natural state temperment wise and such.

All I know is that there was never a fight until my female went into heat.. it's happened 2 times and both times she was in heat. She's getting spayed on Friday thank God, and hopefully that will at least help, but I don't plan on having these 2 around each other anymore... I don't plan on having the young male for much longer anyway. I'll get him back healthy again and either put an ad in the paper or hope that a woman I know can help me put him into a good home.


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

well, fixing the female will help calm down the two males alittle, I believe. Though, to males that are not fixed put together can lead to some aggression, just for being males and saying I am the leader here. Though, I would never truely leave all three of them alone together, for many reasons. I do think that it will calm some things down but there still might come a time when one of them starts to think, that they should fight to be in place up at the head of the house with you. Sence you are getting married its going to take some attention away from them, and they will be craving it, and wanting it back the same way, if not more. I am not saying they will turn on your soon to be husband, but might go after each other to be first. 
My sister Neela on here rotates her dogs, the only two that truely get to be with each other is her mutt boy, and her bully Indi. Though, they dont go outside together, for they always find away to run away. Where as her other dog Neela, Shana will go into the room with her and sit and chill with her. There are also times when she puts the others in a rooms and bring Neela out so she doesnt have to stay in the room all day long. They all get let out to run around and they all get the same amount of attention. Though, she doesnt take the chance for a fight to happen.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

In my case with my dog neutering him at 5 months old did absolutely nothing to stop his dog agression. In fact, I actually think that neutering him at such an early age could have caused a hormonal unbalance that caused him to be so unstable and unusually agressive. I do not believe in BYB and adding more homeless dogs to the shelters, but since my recent experience with my dog I do not know what to think anymore. Having two males and a female intact is really asking for a fight between, nature will eventually take its place and they will compete for the female. They could have grown up together but hormones and nature are stronger than that and you also have a breed that will say no to a challenge and it is hard wired to finish an arguement if you know what I mean. Your best bet is to keep 1 dog or keep the two that get along the best, possibly analyzing what level of energy will compliment each other and unless you want to add more obstacles to the safety of your dogs fixing all of them will be the best choice.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

Harley D said:


> well, fixing the female will help calm down the two males alittle, I believe. Though, to males that are not fixed put together can lead to some aggression, just for being males and saying I am the leader here. Though, I would never truely leave all three of them alone together, for many reasons. I do think that it will calm some things down but there still might come a time when one of them starts to think, that they should fight to be in place up at the head of the house with you. Sence you are getting married its going to take some attention away from them, and they will be craving it, and wanting it back the same way, if not more. I am not saying they will turn on your soon to be husband, but might go after each other to be first.
> My sister Neela on here rotates her dogs, the only two that truely get to be with each other is her mutt boy, and her bully Indi. Though, they dont go outside together, for they always find away to run away. Where as her other dog Neela, Shana will go into the room with her and sit and chill with her. There are also times when she puts the others in a rooms and bring Neela out so she doesnt have to stay in the room all day long. They all get let out to run around and they all get the same amount of attention. Though, she doesnt take the chance for a fight to happen.


I will make this clear in case anyone was wondering that I DO NOT EVER leave 2 pits in the same room unsupervised. This fight happened with me right there in the room and I was right in the middle of it. My fiance' had to pull my older male while I pulled the younger one. The younger one is actually the one who starts the trouble though, he is the first to pull his lip up and even after he had gotten torn up and we had gotten my older male in the kennel, he STILL went over to the older dogs kennel to get into it again. I admire the breeds courage and pure willingness to go all out, I just wish it was always directed towards something less violent.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Guitarist302008 said:


> I will make this clear in case anyone was wondering that I DO NOT EVER leave 2 pits in the same room unsupervised. This fight happened with me right there in the room and I was right in the middle of it. My fiance' had to pull my older male while I pulled the younger one. The younger one is actually the one who starts the trouble though, he is the first to pull his lip up and even after he had gotten torn up and we had gotten my older male in the kennel, he STILL went over to the older dogs kennel to get into it again. I admire the breeds courage and pure willingness to go all out, I just wish it was always directed towards something less violent.


I honestly do not see your rationale for keeping two intact males and an intact female unless you were showing them or doing some kind of sports and you'd like to breed them in the future if they excell in whatever it is you have them doing. The young one will always go for the fight because he is challenging the older dog for the alpha status and this breed doesnt take challenges too kind, it can go either way anyway. You have 3 dogs living in your house whose ancerstry was created to kill one another! How can you expect them to direct their purpose to other than what they were meant to do? it is not violence which is they are practicing, they are doing a job that is an instict behavior that they posses . You can put the older dog in the 3rd floor the young one will find a way to climb up to get him. Having a female to add to the mix is even worse. Just speaking from experience nothing personal!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

davidfitness83 said:


> I honestly do not see your rationale for keeping two intact males and an intact female unless you were showing them or doing some kind of sports and you'd like to breed them in the future if they excell in whatever it is you have them doing. The young one will always go for the fight because he is challenging the older dog for the alpha status and this breed doesnt take challenges too kind, it can go either way anyway. You have 3 dogs living in your house whose ancerstry was created to kill one another! How can you expect them to direct their purpose to other than what they were meant to do? it is not violence which is they are practicing, they are doing a job that is an instict behavior that they posses . You can put the older dog in the 3rd floor the young one will find a way to climb up to get him. Having a female to add to the mix is even worse. Just speaking from experience nothing personal!


Just to give you a little bit of insight, he's aware of the nature of the breed. He is currently searching for a responsible owner to rehome the younger male and the female.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Just because you are not showing or breeding does not mean you have to fix the dogs. I hate when people get stuck on everything has to be "fixed" if they are just a pet. I have a few pets that are still intact and I have my reasons and no it's not to breed them. I am responsible enough to separate the dogs when in season and smart enough to know what dogs (intact or not) are going to get along. While intact animals can have challenges I feel that is all about dog ownership. Now most dogs should be S/N since many people can not handle the responsibility of an intact animal, doesn't mean if someone wants them intact they are a bad person. This S/N campaign started with the animal rights people and gets blown out of the water with the mandatory S/N laws. Maybe I am old school but I don't want someone telling me what I have to cut out of my animal. sorry the rants over....

So back to the OP, The real problem is you have 3 APBT's and the likely hood they were always going to get along was a long shot. Good for you for placing the some of the dogs to avoid future problem but whether the female in heat started it or your male matured into to his own, you were probably going to have issues.

You see it time and time again where people are having issues with the dogs fighting and I think...... then why did you get a breed that was made to fight other dogs? What did you think was going to happen? There is another thread about a guy who's dogs are "getting along better" we will see how long that lasts because I can tell you that is a recipe for a dead dog and it is the owner who is at fault. So to those that think you can fix DA by S/N realize that is not the issue, it is the breed if dog.

For your last comment
_I admire the breeds courage and pure willingness to go all out, I just wish it was always directed towards something less violent._

You can redirect drive and work with DA but it has to be done as a pup and you have to watch every little behavior that will lead to trouble later on. People wait till they have a dog fight before they realize any warning signs that have been going on for a while. Your dogs didn't decide to fight just because, there were events leading up to the fight that could have been avoided. APBT's can successfully direct drive towards another outlet. Look at my dog Vixen, her sire and dam were both matched dogs and her bloodline were successful pit dogs. (I got her from a game yard, long story I will not elaborate) She is one of the top Agility dogs in the country and not just for her breed. She is DA if given the right circumstances and has had her share of yard accidents. She is fine in public and love puppies but if you are another bitch in my house she will do what she was bred to do. Most of my working dogs are gamebred it makes no difference in th DA for me becuase it can be worked through.
So just because you have this breed does not mean they can not do great things but it takes work, if left untouched they will do what they were bred for, fight.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Just because you are not showing or breeding does not mean you have to fix the dogs. I hate when people get stuck on everything has to be "fixed" if they are just a pet. I have a few pets that are still intact and I have my reasons and no it's not to breed them. I am responsible enough to separate the dogs when in season and smart enough to know what dogs (intact or not) are going to get along. While intact animals can have challenges I feel that is all about dog ownership. Now most dogs should be S/N since many people can not handle the responsibility of an intact animal, doesn't mean if someone wants them intact they are a bad person. This S/N campaign started with the animal rights people and gets blown out of the water with the mandatory S/N laws. Maybe I am old school but I don't want someone telling me what I have to cut out of my animal. sorry the rants over....
> 
> So back to the OP, The real problem is you have 3 APBT's and the likely hood they were always going to get along was a long shot. Good for you for placing the some of the dogs to avoid future problem but whether the female in heat started it or your male matured into to his own, you were probably going to have issues.
> 
> ...


Well said. Very, very well said.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Just because you are not showing or breeding does not mean you have to fix the dogs. I hate when people get stuck on everything has to be "fixed" if they are just a pet. I have a few pets that are still intact and I have my reasons and no it's not to breed them. I am responsible enough to separate the dogs when in season and smart enough to know what dogs (intact or not) are going to get along. While intact animals can have challenges I feel that is all about dog ownership. Now most dogs should be S/N since many people can not handle the responsibility of an intact animal, doesn't mean if someone wants them intact they are a bad person. This S/N campaign started with the animal rights people and gets blown out of the water with the mandatory S/N laws. Maybe I am old school but I don't want someone telling me what I have to cut out of my animal. sorry the rants over....
> 
> So back to the OP, The real problem is you have 3 APBT's and the likely hood they were always going to get along was a long shot. Good for you for placing the some of the dogs to avoid future problem but whether the female in heat started it or your male matured into to his own, you were probably going to have issues.
> 
> ...


Good stuff:clap:


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> Just to give you a little bit of insight, he's aware of the nature of the breed. He is currently searching for a responsible owner to rehome the younger male and the female.


Thanks brother, late lunch I was heading into a food comma so I was not grasping everything :hammer:


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Just because you are not showing or breeding does not mean you have to fix the dogs. I hate when people get stuck on everything has to be "fixed" if they are just a pet. I have a few pets that are still intact and I have my reasons and no it's not to breed them. I am responsible enough to separate the dogs when in season and smart enough to know what dogs (intact or not) are going to get along. While intact animals can have challenges I feel that is all about dog ownership. Now most dogs should be S/N since many people can not handle the responsibility of an intact animal, doesn't mean if someone wants them intact they are a bad person. This S/N campaign started with the animal rights people and gets blown out of the water with the mandatory S/N laws. Maybe I am old school but I don't want someone telling me what I have to cut out of my animal. sorry the rants over....
> 
> So back to the OP, The real problem is you have 3 APBT's and the likely hood they were always going to get along was a long shot. Good for you for placing the some of the dogs to avoid future problem but whether the female in heat started it or your male matured into to his own, you were probably going to have issues.
> 
> ...


I agree that the whole s/n thing is blown way out of proportion. I have tried talking about this in the past when the people over at the other pitbull forums and they are some of the most arrogant and rude people I have ever come across on a forum. If your dog isn't spayed or neutered then they just bash you constantly.. if you even mention breeding you are the most horrible person in the world. This is a free country and if I want to breed my dogs then damnit i'm going to breed my dogs, my only problem with it is simply that people do not do enough to ensure they go to good homes, they want the money and that's it. They could care less the kind of person they are selling to.

I understand the dogs nature. I have read multiple books, talked to breeders, read websites all concerning the breed, it's history and such so no one needs to preach that to me anymore as I was already aware of it. I'm not guilty of ignorance of the breed, I may be guilty of not keeping track of when the female was coming back into heat, but tomorrow at 9 a.m she will be at the vet getting fixed and that will help remove some of the tension between the 2 males. As I had said before as well ( I think I did anyway ) I have someone who is willing to take her, train her and care for her until she finds a home which is great news. The younger male CANNOT BE FIXED so to some of you talking about that, get it out of your head now. The last time he went under for surgery, he couldn't walk straight for about 5 or 6 months... whether they used to much, a different kind... it doesn't really matter because i'm not willing to take the risk again so no more comments about him getting fixed need be made. If I have to keep them seperate from now on then so be it. If it gets to the point where I feel he is a danger to more animals, I will put him down. I have done everything possible to ensure he has a good life.. or at least a chance of one, he's now been through 2 surgeries... 1 major and the one yesterday and with the cost of buying him I have well over 3,000.00 invested in him, so at least I can say I tried if it ever comes to that.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Guitarist302008 said:


> If it gets to the point where I feel he is a danger to more animals, I will put him down. I have done everything possible to ensure he has a good life.. or at least a chance of one, he's now been through 2 surgeries... 1 major and the one yesterday and with the cost of buying him I have well over 3,000.00 invested in him, so at least I can say I tried if it ever comes to that.


So I was sticking up for you till now. To put a dog down because you cannot separate him from your other dog or other animals is really sad Why don't you just keep your older male and place the younger male and the female? You made the comment that by her getting fixed it is going to ease the tention... no it won't you will be back in the same situations as before blame the dog then put him down.
I have said it a thousand time if you are not able or willing to separate multiple APBT's then get another breed that can live to together. The dogs should not have to suffer because of the owners short comings. JMO
Hopefully you can do the right thing I will not lecture (anymore, lol) but I think others might not be as nice.
I spend over 7,000 a year on the dogs including vet bill, breeding, and care. If I was worried about money I would not own the dogs, They do not have a maximum amount I will spend till I give up on them. If a dog cost 3,000 or 10,000 they are still my responsibility since I took it upon my self to own them.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

performanceknls said:


> So I was sticking up for you till now. To put a dog down because you cannot separate him from your other dog or other animals is really sad Why don't you just keep your older male and place the younger male and the female? You made the comment that by her getting fixed it is going to ease the tention... no it won't you will be back in the same situations as before blame the dog then put him down.
> I have said it a thousand time if you are not able or willing to separate multiple APBT's then get another breed that can live to together. The dogs should not have to suffer because of the owners short comings. JMO
> Hopefully you can do the right thing I will not lecture (anymore, lol) but I think others might not be as nice.
> I spend over 7,000 a year on the dogs including vet bill, breeding, and care. If I was worried about money I would not own the dogs, They do not have a maximum amount I will spend till I give up on them. If a dog cost 3,000 or 10,000 they are still my responsibility since I took it upon my self to own them.


Ty performance. I couldn't bring myself to speak very nice about this lol. Very well said!


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

cane76 said:


> Dog fighting is done by a very small select group of people through out the world,Its the media that portrays it to be the #1 problem within this breed,dog fighting dosent flood the pounds with unwanted dogs,you could go your whole life without seeing a dog fighter or a fighting dog,but just go to the pound and see all the apbts and apbt mixes in there,none of those dogs are the result of dog fighting or organized dog fights but all of them are the result of byb's.
> You can buy into a lie created by the media if you want and join the ranks of peta and the h.s.u.s or think deeper and see that it is backyard breeding that is this breeds #1 problem but thats your choice.Go ahead and waste your time and breath fighting against something you'll never see and know nothing about.
> In my opinion you'd be best advised fixing all your dogs regardless of aggresion issues,then get up on your soap box and pontificate on the ill's of dog fighting and dog fighters until then your as much of a problem as them.


There is no lesser of two evils when it comes to overpopulation and euthanasia in shelters of any animal and fighting of animals.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> So I was sticking up for you till now. To put a dog down because you cannot separate him from your other dog or other animals is really sad Why don't you just keep your older male and place the younger male and the female? You made the comment that by her getting fixed it is going to ease the tention... no it won't you will be back in the same situations as before blame the dog then put him down.
> I have said it a thousand time if you are not able or willing to separate multiple APBT's then get another breed that can live to together. The dogs should not have to suffer because of the owners short comings. JMO
> Hopefully you can do the right thing I will not lecture (anymore, lol) but I think others might not be as nice.
> I spend over 7,000 a year on the dogs including vet bill, breeding, and care. If I was worried about money I would not own the dogs, They do not have a maximum amount I will spend till I give up on them. If a dog cost 3,000 or 10,000 they are still my responsibility since I took it upon my self to own them.


You have completely missed my point as so often happens on these forums I said "from now on then so be it. If it gets to the point where I feel he is a danger to *more animals*" This is what I said. This means an animal that might just be walking past doing nothing, or an animal in another home who he filps out on and kills. And in case you haven't been keeping up with the thread I said I AM TRYING TO PLACE THE YOUNGER MALE AND THE FEMALE! I even have a thread on here about free to good homes for God's sake! Geez people, read what I type and not what you THINK I said.... and by the way, YOU might not be worried about the money, but i'm getting married in 2 months and just got laid off on Monday so for us poor people, this is something that we have to think about.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

Shes Got Heart said:


> There is no lesser of two evils when it comes to overpopulation and euthanasia in shelters of any animal and fighting of animals.


An animal that is euthanized and can die peacefully is a hell of a lot better than some fighting dog who dies in a pit by getting ripped apart or being left alone while he bleeds to death or dies painfully from an infection... yes, their IS a lesser of two evils. People who fight dogs should just be killed and that would end a lot of the problem immediately :rofl:


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

On the topic of neutering is there a right or wrong age to have a male neutered? I had my female spayed at 5 months to avoid the first heat, I've never dealt with an intact female dog and didn't want too! 

But when should I neuter the male? I was thinking somewhere between 6 months to a year, but I do want to do weight pull with him.. but he's not registered so with the ILP.


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Guitarist302008 said:


> An animal that is euthanized and can die peacefully is a hell of a lot better than some fighting dog who dies in a pit by getting ripped apart or being left alone while he bleeds to death or dies painfully from an infection... yes, their IS a lesser of two evils. People who fight dogs should just be killed and that would end a lot of the problem immediately :rofl:


People have enjoyed blood sports for almost all of man kind. Bull baiting, bear baiting, christian baiting (snicker) ok that was wrong lord I apologize, be with the starving pygmies down in new genie.

Do you realize how many dogs can be produced from one single breeding? Assuming one female dog has 10 litters in her life and 10 pups in each litter.. that is 100 puppies, now multiply that by all the other people who are doing the same thing! It's not only pit bulls but the shelters are so dang full of them from over breeding. Someone gets a cute puppy, they don't know how to take care of it, it gets destructive around 6 months old and they take it to the pound believing it will find a good home.. most likely wrong. Most pounds euth owner surrenders. And of course the byb who bred the dog would never offer to take it back, they got their money and they are done with you. Breeding should be left to people with experience who know what they are doing, and to better the breed. What was your reason for breeding?

More than half of puppies bred, are BRED TO DIE.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

Shes Got Heart said:


> People have enjoyed blood sports for almost all of man kind. Bull baiting, bear baiting, christian baiting (snicker) ok that was wrong lord I apologize, be with the starving pygmies down in new genie.
> 
> Do you realize how many dogs can be produced from one single breeding? Assuming one female dog has 10 litters in her life and 10 pups in each litter.. that is 100 puppies, now multiply that by all the other people who are doing the same thing! It's not only pit bulls but the shelters are so dang full of them from over breeding. Someone gets a cute puppy, they don't know how to take care of it, it gets destructive around 6 months old and they take it to the pound believing it will find a good home.. most likely wrong. Most pounds euth owner surrenders. And of course the byb who bred the dog would never offer to take it back, they got their money and they are done with you. Breeding should be left to people with experience who know what they are doing, and to better the breed. What was your reason for breeding?
> 
> More than half of puppies bred, are BRED TO DIE.


I actually bred my dogs 1 time. The female had previously been bred 1 other time and had a total of 12 puppies from both breedings. Two of the people who bought some pups live right up in town from me and I check on them frequently. The woman who bought one, already has one and she is had just had one die that was quite old so i'm not to worried about her giving it up. Her son bought another one. The other ones are being sold by my cousins wife who works for a pet rescue and they have a backround check done on them, along with a copy of their license, proof of home ownership, job, etc. If they have ever adopted a dog and given it back, they do not get the dog, if I don't like them, they don't get the dog. They also have to sign a contract that says if they want to give the dog up, the dog must be given back to myself or her. I would say that I have taken EVERY precaution that they will get a good home wouldn't you?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Guitarist302008 said:


> You have completely missed my point as so often happens on these forums I said "from now on then so be it. If it gets to the point where I feel he is a danger to *more animals*" This is what I said. This means an animal that might just be walking past doing nothing, or an animal in another home who he filps out on and kills. And in case you haven't been keeping up with the thread I said I AM TRYING TO PLACE THE YOUNGER MALE AND THE FEMALE! I even have a thread on here about free to good homes for God's sake! Geez people, read what I type and not what you THINK I said.... and by the way, YOU might not be worried about the money, but i'm getting married in 2 months and just got laid off on Monday so for us poor people, this is something that we have to think about.


first off if you are so sick of forums (your attitude says it) then why are you posting for other opens? I did not miss your point but if you are worried about you dog getting the chance to hurt another animal then it is good that you are getting rid of your dogs. You comment of 
_This means an animal that might just be walking past doing nothing, or an animal in another home who he filps out on and kills._
Is a stupid comment and if you cannot control you animals then you have bigger issues.

Getting married is no excuse for not taking care of your animals for being able to not afford them. Job or no job it is your responsibility to take care of that animals in your care. May be you should consider place the other male. God for bid he has to go to the vet or cost you any money. Then when you are financially stable enough to take care of another life you can reconsider dog ownership.

I am not rich by any means but I take responsibility of what dogs I own. If I cannot afford them I would not own them.

If your dogs were properly maintained you would not have had the large vet bill you just had.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Guitarist302008 said:


> When did I ever say I was a breeder? lol I see again you don't condem dogfighting... just do me a favor and stay out of my thread, you really have offered nothing to it.


One look at my album and anyone who knows anything can see clearly those arent fighting bulldogs,but then again by your comments im sure you believe any apbt type is a fighting dog.Your emotions over ride logic,reminds me of a old girlfriend i once had.YOU dont know the first thing about breeding,yet you did it,probably a litter full of culls,definetly a litter full of unregistered curs for sure,maybe if you took a step back and studyed the breed and its history and the individuals who created it you might gain prospective,untill then your doomed to repeat mistakes and thats the last thing this breed needs,another ignorant individual who is to thick headed to take advise and seek the truth.
I feel sorry for any dog you may have put on to this earth.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> first off if you are so sick of forums (your attitude says it) then why are you posting for other opens? I did not miss your point but if you are worried about you dog getting the chance to hurt another animal then it is good that you are getting rid of your dogs. You comment of
> _This means an animal that might just be walking past doing nothing, or an animal in another home who he filps out on and kills._
> Is a stupid comment and if you cannot control you animals then you have bigger issues.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your that bit of information... you are oh so wise. Having an animal that is dangerous is dangerous no matter what and should be put down and honestly I could give a sh!t less if you agree with me or not... thank you :welcome:


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

ahhh cane, it is so much fun seeing you attempt to post something I will see... but I don't lol


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## Pitlover0718 (Mar 23, 2009)

Guitarist302008 said:


> Thank you so much for your that bit of information... you are oh so wise. Having an animal that is dangerous is dangerous no matter what and should be put down and honestly I could give a sh!t less if you agree with me or not... thank you :welcome:


APBT's are known to be DA. Owning 3 of them, assuming they would always get along, was your mistake, not the dog's.

You shouldnt put the dog down. (If he was HA, that would be a different story.) Just find him a home where he is the only pet soon.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

cane76 said:


> .Your emotions over ride logic,reminds me of a old girlfriend i once had.


You hit that right on the head!! HA! :clap:


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## Bulldoggin (Jun 15, 2009)

""......This means an animal that might just be walking past doing nothing, or an animal in another home who he filps out on and kills....."""

I didn't wanna butt into this convo but here goes....
Killing a dog because it is dog aggressive is wrong in this breed. if you do not want to tolerate or feel it is wrong for a dog to be dog aggressive, then Place all your dogs and get another Breed!!!!
WTH did you expect getting a pitbull????? DA comes with the breed, and is not a valid reason for euthanasia....An English Bulldog would work for you , but you do not need to own a pitbull. 
JMHO


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

Guitarist302008 said:


> I will make this clear in case anyone was wondering that I DO NOT EVER leave 2 pits in the same room unsupervised. This fight happened with me right there in the room and I was right in the middle of it. My fiance' had to pull my older male while I pulled the younger one. The younger one is actually the one who starts the trouble though, he is the first to pull his lip up and even after he had gotten torn up and we had gotten my older male in the kennel, he STILL went over to the older dogs kennel to get into it again. I admire the breeds courage and pure willingness to go all out, I just wish it was always directed towards something less violent.


Hey man come on I am just saying. I am not saying this to offend you but there are some stupid heads that DO leave their dogs alone together. In your first post there wasnt much detial on what you do. The kennel thing might not be enough though. With them seeing each other threw the bars. I am just saying that it might be better if they werent even in the same room together if a fight happens no matter what. 
I did not mean to offend you in anyway and I am sorry if I did. I just dont know besides fights were braking out between to males.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

Harley D said:


> Hey man come on I am just saying. I am not saying this to offend you but there are some stupid heads that DO leave their dogs alone together. In your first post there wasnt much detial on what you do. The kennel thing might not be enough though. With them seeing each other threw the bars. I am just saying that it might be better if they werent even in the same room together if a fight happens no matter what.
> I did not mean to offend you in anyway and I am sorry if I did. I just dont know besides fights were braking out between to males.


It's ok, people here are just assuming I don't know about these dogs. DUH! They are animal aggressive... I am well aware of their history. When the dogs have lived together for 3 years and I have never had a problem, then you tend to forget about that potential. I guess everyone here is perfect though and has never made a mistake lol. I swear some people here are judgmental.


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

Guitarist302008 said:


> It's ok, people here are just assuming I don't know about these dogs. DUH! They are animal aggressive... I am well aware of their history. When the dogs have lived together for 3 years and I have never had a problem, then you tend to forget about that potential. I guess everyone here is perfect though and has never made a mistake lol. I swear some people here are judgmental.


I could say alot about you myself but I will not seeing as I would like to stay on this site. No one has ever gone in their life with out a problem. Though, most are smart enough to know not to put two non fixed males in with a non fixed female. I will not say that you did not do your history homework, but you can never put your guard down when it comes to animals. Not even two birds in a cage. These people are simply here to try and help you. For the benifit of you, your soon to be husband and you dogs.


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

Harley D said:


> I could say alot about you myself but I will not seeing as I would like to stay on this site. No one has ever gone in their life with out a problem. Though, most are smart enough to know not to put two non fixed males in with a non fixed female. I will not say that you did not do your history homework, but you can never put your guard down when it comes to animals. Not even two birds in a cage. These people are simply here to try and help you. For the benifit of you, your soon to be husband and you dogs.


yes, I realize this, which is the very reason that when she is in heat she is put into another room upstairs. As soon as she's gone, the 2 males don't even remember they had a problem and play and lay together like they always did. As I had already said... her heat cycle sort of snuck up on me in the midst of getting laid off, planning a wedding that is in two months, trying to find a new job while TRYING to figure out how to afford a house, having my Father in Shock trauma for a car accident, among several other things. Forgive some of you great planners if I had an issue and decided to ask a question instead of taking a bunch of stuff from the holier than thou posters and the closest dog fighters.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

The holier than tho or what ever the F you are referring to are long time bulldog owners who have their responsibilities and priorities straight. Don't refer to another one of my members being associated with dog fighting again without rock solid evidence. That member you are reffering to is one of the most informative mother F'rs out there because he takes the time to research, interview people and their dogs.


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

Guitarist302008 said:


> yes, I realize this, which is the very reason that when she is in heat she is put into another room upstairs. As soon as she's gone, the 2 males don't even remember they had a problem and play and lay together like they always did. As I had already said... her heat cycle sort of snuck up on me in the midst of getting laid off, planning a wedding that is in two months, trying to find a new job while TRYING to figure out how to afford a house, having my Father in Shock trauma for a car accident, among several other things. Forgive some of you great planners if I had an issue and decided to ask a question instead of taking a bunch of stuff from the holier than thou posters and the closest dog fighters.


alright first off how non smart are you? From what I just understood, you are letting the two male near each other? After the had a huge butt fight over a female... Either I got that statement wrong or you are one of the most non smart people I ever met. 
I am shocked that you are saying you for give the members on here.... They should be forgiving you for you rudeness to them


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## Pitlover0718 (Mar 23, 2009)

Harley D said:


> They should be forgiving you for you rudeness to them


Very well said.

You asked for feedback on your situation. When you get it, you give an attitude. Why did you even ask for feedback if you think you know it all?


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## Guitarist302008 (May 20, 2009)

NEELA said:


> The holier than tho or what ever the F you are referring to are long time bulldog owners who have their responsibilities and priorities straight. Don't refer to another one of my members being associated with dog fighting again without rock solid evidence. That member you are reffering to is one of the most informative mother F'rs out there because he takes the time to research, interview people and their dogs.


 you then cunt... kick me off lol I don't care... and the rest of you people and your mothers lol.

dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters dog fighters


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

Don't worry I will be sure to show the admins


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## Pitlover0718 (Mar 23, 2009)

Wow... that was totally uncalled for from him.


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

I know right. Though what else do you getfrom a hardheaded, non smart person... Now I am going to put the shut to the up


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