# castillo and boogieman bloodlines



## kimo

I am getting a puppy that has castillo and boogieman and swogger and lar-san bloodlines in the dam and sires pedigree. I would really appreciate some info on these bloodlines. The kennel im getting my pup from is real deal chocolates could someone look at the dogs on the page and tell me the honest opinion on their dogs. I would really appreciate the help. I am looking for a dog to take to weight pull competitions and shows. thanks ahead of time for your help.


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## Black Rabbit

Do you have a link to the kennel site I'll go take a look for you


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## kimo

*link*

here is the link Real Deal Chocolates Red Nose American Pit Bull Terriers
I think i put it right? im not sure. im new to this. sry


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## Black Rabbit

They look like nice dogs. I don't know much about the blood lines but Czar's pup is off the Castillo blood line he's a gorgeous little chocolate pup. He might have some back round info on that bloodline


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## kimo

*kennel*

I love TITO and Gaia and Nina they are beautiful. I had my dog Kimo for 14 yrs. He passed away last year and im finally ready for a new puppy. Tito reminds me of him.


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## kimo

Thanks for the comments


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## Black Rabbit

Oh how sad I'm sorry for your loss. My Marley is turning 10 this year and I can't even Imagine my life with out him. I know you can never replace him but getting a new puppy will help  Good luck hope your next pup is as good as your last


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## Patch-O-Pits

kimo said:


> I love TITO and Gaia and Nina they are beautiful. I had my dog Kimo for 14 yrs. He passed away last year and im finally ready for a new puppy. Tito reminds me of him.


 I'm very sorry for your loss....
Castillo and Swoggers tend to be heavier boned dogs. Besides that I don't know a lot about dogs from Swoggers. I don't really see any Castillo dogs in the show ring or working here in the US any way. There seem to be quite a few showing overseas like in Brazil. I only know of a couple who are doing some weight pull. There is a Castillo forum, in case you want to do more research.My girls have some of the Castillo foundation dogs behind them
Boogieman is a more standard ADBA typy dog, the ones I've net at shows have been dolls.
The lar-san dogs were from Show/working stock, there is some health testing behind that bloodline and if you do a search on th forum you'll find some posts already up on them.

I hope that helps


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## bahamutt99

Heh. I like the way their puppy policy says you must notify them before your puppy is lost. LOL! That is all, I will STFU now.


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## gamer

call kim at red coat kennels she can tell you anything you want to know about her line. She is cool!


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## PatienceFlame

are they bullies? they look like it in their pics on that site


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## gamer

actually they are larger pit bulls but I wouldn't call them bullies. She keeps them fat and happy. When I went to her house they were nothing like bullies I think maybe the pics are deceiving they are nice clean dogs just bigger than the standard ADBA dogs I like.


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## gamer

if I remember right they are pretty tight larsan lines


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## kimo

*not bullys*

No they are not bullys. They are a bit thicker but thats what im looking for.


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## kimo

yes they are lar-san lines


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## PatienceFlame

yeah, I happen to like ukc standard dogs. these are huge dogs they looked bully that is why I asked. sorry


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## gamer

no no problem. Cal Kim she can tell you a lot about her dogs she has been doing it a long time


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## bahamutt99

If you really think about it, are the breeders we're talking about breeding for size and color? If they were breeding blues, would be bash them? This is me not-hating. This is me simply supplying food for thought.


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## gamer

No she doesnt breed for size or color. Actually Kim is about the only person I know that has not given in to fads and has been breeding the same type forever.


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## bahamutt99

I'm not just speaking of Kim. I just notice things. There are several breeders out there now producing a large, over-standard, bulky chocolate dog. They don't show or work them, don't health-test. If they were producing shades of blue, most would call them bully breeders and BYBs. But instead we seem to see folks backing the breeders of the chocolate dogs and excusing where they are coming up short. At least that's my take on it. Perspectives will differ of course.


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## American_Pit13

bahamutt99 said:


> I'm not just speaking of Kim. I just notice things. There are several breeders out there now producing a large, over-standard, bulky chocolate dog. They don't show or work them, don't health-test. If they were producing shades of blue, most would call them bully breeders and BYBs. At least that's my take on it. Perspectives will differ of course.


:goodpost: I 100% agree.


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## kimber

bahamutt99 said:


> I'm not just speaking of Kim. I just notice things. There are several breeders out there now producing a large, over-standard, bulky chocolate dog. They don't show or work them, don't health-test. If they were producing shades of blue, most would call them bully breeders and BYBs. But instead we seem to see folks backing the breeders of the chocolate dogs and excusing where they are coming up short. At least that's my take on it. Perspectives will differ of course.


Well, the answer to your color and size question previously is no. umm, let's see, I have a line of dogs that I've been breeding now for the last 12 years. Lar-San by way of Wilrox knl mainly, castillo from way back when I first began and now in the last 4 years, I added Dangerzone. I know you know these dogs are red nose. I know you know red noses come in different shades of red including chocolate. I own and breed all the colors that a red nose produces I do not scatter-breed. I line-breed. If you are trying to incinuate I breed for color, you are mistaken. Now for size....I do not particularly care for the standard ADBA type, therefore I do not breed it. I have bred selectively for years to get and maintain what I prefer. I do not do "fads". As for the comment about 'backing the breeders of chocolate dogs and not blues..' really now. I've never heard that before. Matter of fact, most of the "chocolate" dogs come from larger lines to begin with (Castillo for instance..) and I have to tell ya, I can list on one hand kennels who *exclusively* breed for chocolate, On the other hand, where did these bully blues start from? Better yet, where did bullys come from? I am still one of just a few who still have the pure old school lines even if they aren't your cup of tea. Please don't try to non-chalantly discredit my dogs.

To the original poster who is asking the question, Gaia is a beautiful female as is Tito and they both come from old established lines with no bulls*t added. The owners of RealDeal are great people and you will have no problems dealing with them. Gaia herself is from great working and show lines. Castillo has their fair share of CH and Grands, so you'll be getting everything you want and expect. Everyone has an opinion. lol 

K. Swogger


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## shadowwolf

Not a big fan of Swogger dogs, Lar-San is okay. If you want to talk about Boogieman dogs, contact Blaizen Kennels - she's got dogs directly off of Tanya's yard. Tanya passed away, unfortunately, not long ago or I'd send you directly to her. 

It's a shame to see these dogs so over done. To me, they're not true to standard. I know Castillo and Swogger dogs tend to run larger but these dogs LOOK like over-done behemoths. If it were me, I'd run - no titles, no health testing...nothing to prove these dogs even FIT registry standards on either of the registries they're registered with. IMO, they're nothing more than papered mutts at this point.


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## shadowwolf

kimber said:


> To the original poster who is asking the question, Gaia is a beautiful female as is Tito and they both come from old established lines with no bulls*t added. The owners of RealDeal are great people and you will have no problems dealing with them. Gaia herself is from great working and show lines. Castillo has their fair share of CH and Grands, so you'll be getting everything you want and expect. Everyone has an opinion. lol
> 
> K. Swogger


I'm sorry, Kim, but if these dogs fit in either standard, having dogs that finished in UKC or ADBA in the pedigree shouldn't matter seeing as the dogs up FRONT should have some sort of title in the pedigree (AND health testing! What are we, living in the stone age, not using TOOLS available as breeders? I mean come on, it's not THAT hard to get done!) - including the sire AND the dam.

As I said above...I'd run.


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## Elizabeth

bahamutt99 said:


> Heh. I like the way their puppy policy says you must notify them before your puppy is lost. LOL! That is all, I will STFU now.


Your Awesome! Thanks for pointing that typo out! I think you know what I meant...
"If the dog was lost or stolen, please contact me."
I fixed it.


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## Elizabeth

I am sorry that you think my dogs are overdone.... I do not think so neither do many others. But everyone is entitled to their opinions, everyone has their style.

Oh and by the way, I know it bothers many that my larger dog has Boogieman in his pedigree, but I would have you know that GR CH Boogieman has created larger dogs. My males dam was a direct daughter and she was 70lbs..... maybe it's the amstaff back in the pedigree popping out occassionally. LOL! 
Hey! you never know..... Food For Thought!


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## Elizabeth

*WORD OF THE DAY*

CONSISTENCY


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## kimber

Your comments to me are of no value or concern. I have 5 generations here and will have more as time passes without any hereditary problems and Ive been breeding tight for many,many years. I will not spend the money on something at this point of my breeding program to waste money, YES, WASTE MONEY, just to apease a few wannabe know-it-alls who climb onto the bandwagon everytime a "new" disease is spread across the Internet that we all must test for. Now, these new fangled dog lines where who-knows-what is involved in their creation and let me also include the AmStaffs since they do seem to have the most problems, these are the people who really need to look into their own backyards and test their stock instead of breeding tainted B.S. because their stud is the flavor of the year. As for the UKC standard, well, I have had my share of productions who have done quite well, both conformationally wise, as well as weight pulling. My dogs really aren't as big as you may think. Pictures don't do them justice at all. Yes, my orginal dogs were the larger/taller castillo based dogs, but they were still not bad. Castillo was a champion bloodline when people were actually showing them as was Lar-San. What name you see in the front of my dogs pedigrees is my name. In the back of my name, the old blood. Nothing mixed in whatsoever, just bred my way. My combination. Whether you like 19" 70-75lb UKC dogs or not, is non of my concern. I've been here for over a decade with dogs all over. I have produced champions. Am I as well known as the breeders out on the west coast, of course not. I don't whore out my dogs, nor do I play the political game. lol.. I don't need to and I don't want to. It's pretty obvious, whether you like it or not, that I'm doing just fine. I have out-lived many well-known kennels and I'm doing quite well, thank you. Couldn't do that with half as*ed dogs, now could I?


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN

i like your dogs. they are very nice imo. keep doing what you do!


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## Czar

pattrick from real deal chocolates is good people.. I've talked to them a couple times...they have a good amount of the same dogs in the pedigree that I have.

Castillo American Pit Bull Terriers thats a castillo forum


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## Elizabeth

kimber said:


> Your comments to me are of no value or concern. I have 5 generations here and will have more as time passes without any hereditary problems and Ive been breeding tight for many,many years. I will not spend the money on something at this point of my breeding program to waste money, YES, WASTE MONEY, just to apease a few wannabe know-it-alls who climb onto the bandwagon everytime a "new" disease is spread across the Internet that we all must test for. Now, these new fangled dog lines where who-knows-what is involved in their creation and let me also include the AmStaffs since they do seem to have the most problems, these are the people who really need to look into their own backyards and test their stock instead of breeding tainted B.S. because their stud is the flavor of the year. As for the UKC standard, well, I have had my share of productions who have done quite well, both conformationally wise, as well as weight pulling. My dogs really aren't as big as you may think. Pictures don't do them justice at all. Yes, my orginal dogs were the larger/taller castillo based dogs, but they were still not bad. Castillo was a champion bloodline when people were actually showing them as was Lar-San. What name you see in the front of my dogs pedigrees is my name. In the back of my name, the old blood. Nothing mixed in whatsoever, just bred my way. My combination. Whether you like 19" 70-75lb UKC dogs or not, is non of my concern. I've been here for over a decade with dogs all over. I have produced champions. Am I as well known as the breeders out on the west coast, of course not. I don't whore out my dogs, nor do I play the political game. lol.. I don't need to and I don't want to. It's pretty obvious, whether you like it or not, that I'm doing just fine. I have out-lived many well-known kennels and I'm doing quite well, thank you. Couldn't do that with half as*ed dogs, now could I?


Well Said.

:clap::clap::clap:


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## Elizabeth

Czar said:


> pattrick from real deal chocolates is good people.. I've talked to them a couple times...they have a good amount of the same days in the pedigree that I have.
> 
> Castillo American Pit Bull Terriers thats a castillo forum


Czar- Thank you... thats why I married him! LOL

I do not breed stirctly for color, but I do love the color, and I happen to own red nose dogs that produce red/ chocolate coats, therefore they will mainly produce red/chocolate it....... hence the name "Real Deal Chocolates"


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## Sydney

big or not...I would like to think that especially if they are being tightly bred that you would health test. Really wish I saw more health testing and titles even if it's working dog titles (or should I say especially working dog titles) I like Lar-san's and Castillo and Boogieman, but these dogs are much heavier set and bigger all around then their predecessors...Maybe they look different in person? Just my personal opinion.


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## kimber

Boy, you moderators are really on your toes, huh? lol. Are people allowed to type the name of a kennel without a link attached? What links are allowed?

In other words, can I put the name of my kennel in my signature, not necessarily the link? Don't want to have ya do too much work following me around.  j/k!


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## bahamutt99

I hear a lot of talk about what these lines originated as. What I do not see are the current breeders doing... well, anything. People will choose to spend their money where they will, and a fool and his fundage are soon parted. To me it is worthwhile to hold out and _only_ give my money to a breeder who is willing to spend their _own_ money on breeding the best dog that they can. (ie, one that gets off their duff and proves their dog in show/sport, and yes, health testing.) Without some proof of breeding quality, there is nothing which separates a breeding dog from his pet-quality cousins.

Kim, I used to rumble with you back on some older boards which may not even exist anymore. I know you're very set in your ways and are convinced of the rightness of what you're doing and the relative lack of value of others' opinions. That's how you roll, and its your right. Just as its my right to call a duck a duck.

Quack.


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## kimber

You can health test every generation and come up clean and still produce something less than par. A breeder can still have an HD dog pop up or anything else. Such is life as we know. Breeding tightly for many years and an occasional inbreeding and not having major health issues is a pretty good sign of great lines and conscientious breeding decisions.

True that on the lines you have mentioned. Bigger and heavier. There was a discussion about this on our board not too long ago. It's in the food. lol... 
I won't go into my own personal breeding details from the last decade, but, from the oldschool blood that I have, I have selectively (purposely) kept and bred the larger boned of my productions. To me, Lar-San is perfect and a total asset to any yard, but too slight on the bone for my liking. 
Some people like the UKC Champion Castillo lines and some like the UKC Champion Lar-San lines. Both lines are very different in looks, but both are champion lines. It's all in what ya like and I started with both.



Sydney said:


> big or not...I would like to think that especially if they are being tightly bred that you would health test. Really wish I saw more health testing and titles even if it's working dog titles (or should I say especially working dog titles) I like Lar-san's and Castillo and Boogieman, but these dogs are much heavier set and bigger all around then their predecessors...Maybe they look different in person? Just my personal opinion.


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## bahamutt99

Lar-San is an excellent line. I love them. Lar-San also throws day blindness, hip dysplasia, and the odd thyroid problem. But a breeder wouldn't know that if they don't health-test. (ETA: There is no health test for day blindness; you have to observe the puppies in certain situations to see it. But the other two can very much be pinpointed via health testing.)


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## kimber

quack quack. LOLOL............ I'm still here!
My relative lack of value of others' opinion is not true! I value everyone's opinion. Why would you say such a thing? You do know I could say the same about you, but, hey, you have the right to your opinion, as do I. The thing is, I - don't - play - your - games. I make my own decisions based on what I want within the standard, not what some doofus wannabe thinks should be and I have been very successful doing so. (doofus wannabe is a generalized term, btw. Nothing personal).

So Lindsay, how you been all these years? Long time, huh?


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## reddoggy

kimber said:


> Your comments to me are of no value or concern.


to answer you question.... lol


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## kimber

bahamutt99 said:


> Lar-San is an excellent line. I love them. Lar-San also throws day blindness, hip dysplasia, and the odd thyroid problem. But a breeder wouldn't know that if they don't health-test. (ETA: There is no health test for day blindness; you have to observe the puppies in certain situations to see it. But the other two can very much be pinpointed via health testing.)


Maybe you should talk to Ro-Ki on that one. She is one of the heavier breeders of the line. I have never experienced any of it and I've had Lar-San in my lines for over 10 years. I believe that it comes from a couple select dogs, but of course, you know that.

What lines do you breed again? I'm sure we can all find something to spout off about in any line. Would you like me to dissect your line for you?

Well sweetie, my free time is over. Back to dog work. Nice reminicing with ya after all these years. It was fun! :woof:


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## bahamutt99

Its been eons, chickee! And you're absolutely right on the opinions thing. We all have a right to them. There are people that don't like my dogs, and I wholeheartedly embrace the awesome freedom of speech rights that allow them to feel that way. At the same time, I can wholeheartedly tell them to shove it up their keister, right? All I can do is make sure that when the time comes and I breed a dog, people don't have plethora of failings to choose from when they want to tear me apart. I want my position to be defensible beyond "this is what I want." Its not a game for me. 

Anyway... You breed your own style, and as you said, its what you want. As far as "within the standard," well, that's subjective! You don't show your dogs, so its really only your own opinion there. My opinion is that at least some of your dogs are too bulky to be considered UKC or ADBA standard. (And if you look at the dogs showing in both registries, a standard APBT should be able to fit both standards.) There are lots of people who are breeding lower, heavier, thicker, etc., because its what they want to see. Its their own "style," and they run with it. But it doesn't necessarily mean they're improving the breed at large. When you get over-specialized and too into your own particular look (general you), you lose sight of the big picture. 

All I have always said, for many years, until I'm blue in the face and feel like I'm sitting by myself in the corner, is that breeders need to be doing everything they can to improve the breed. And yes, I totally believe we should use all the tools we have available now, as Amanda said. We're not pitting out dogs anymore, but they're also not supposed to be just pets. Do you agree with me there? If not, that's fine. But if so, doesn't it make sense for breeders to actually show and work their dogs? And on the health-testing thing, stuff stays hidden. I know this, and I'm sure you know it as well. These dogs don't care if they hurt; they go anyway. On another board a poster just revealed that her gamebred ADBA CH failed his CERF. She never knew there was a problem.

As far as those doofus wannabes go, we all wannabe different things.


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## bahamutt99

If someone started asking about Ro-Ki dogs on here, I'd speak about what I perceive as their strengths and failings as well. Believe me, we all have dirt under our nails. Some just have more of it. LOL!

As for the lines that I'm involved with, no need to dissect. The only intact dog I have is Lar-San/Jeep/Redboy. I already know about the issues in Lar-San and have spoken about them at length... hmm, recently, it seems!  Not sure what faults lie in the Jeep/Redboy dogs, but rest assured that no dog will be bred here before it has passed its health-tests. I probably make less money than most people here, but if I'm going to breed dogs, the change I spend proving the breeding quality of what I have is money well spent. I don't see where anybody can ask $$$ for breeding their pets, so I practice what I preach.

As for day blindness only coming from some dogs, I don't dispute that. Evidently Lar-San Krimson Chas Krug was a carrier, which would make all his offspring suspect. He's probably in the pedigree of at least some of your dogs as well as mine.


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## bahamutt99

Fond farewell from me as well right now. Dogs are crabbing to be worked, and farbeit for me to keep them waiting. Toodles, I'll mouth off a little more later on.


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## kimo

I love Tito and Gaia!!! It is still some time away but i am really excited. I have been looking for a training weight pull harness already. lol. Im also thinking of building a weight pulling rail and cart for my backyard. I dont care if not everyone approves. The puppy is gonna be for me not everyone. lol. Gaia is ripped as well as Tito. Personally i dont like the skinny APBT. My dog Kimo was a huge 85 lbs. RIP KIMO I miss u.


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## bahamutt99

Define "the skinny APBT." The standard reads 30-60 pounds as well as "proportionate."  

I think I will never understand people. We say we love our breed, then we seek out dogs that are out of the standard. We act as though there are different types because we can't really admit that what we like doesn't adhere to the breed ideal. Heck, I love GSDs, but I wish they had a little less hair. Operating within a set of morals/ethics, I could not encourage the breeding of smooth-haired GSDs because I personally don't like fur.

But whatevah. Carry on.


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## kimo

*Here is kimo*

Here is a pic of my dog Kimo. And his pedigree. He weighs 85 lbs. Thats the APBT that i like bigger than the 50 lb APBT. I understand that each person likes are different and its koo. But just cuz he is big doesnt mean he is bully. He is 100% American Pit Bull Terrier. I didnt mean to offend anybody by saying skinny APBT. I just like my dogs bigger. Thats all. I dont like bullies that drag their chests on the ground or that have bowed legs. thats just wrong. Poor dogs.:hammer:


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

beautiful dog kimo. don't listen to anyone that says that an apbt can't be larger than the 65-75 lb mark. several respectable dogmen of recent times have dog larger than that on their yards right now. i tryin to find the dogs name. tom garner has a 90 lb chainweight dog on his yard right now. pure chinaman blood. i know of someone that took a pure eli dog to a pure turtlebuster dog and got a 70-80 lb dog that resemble a great dane. i do believe that apbt can get enormous if selectively bred. but most today are ambullies.


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## bahamutt99

Who said they aren't pure? I just said they're not the ideal representative of the breed, and don't understand why people would breed selectively to get that. ETA: Who is the 90 lb Garner dog?

Anyway, to Kimo... I was just thinking, if you like a larger rednose dog, have you considered looking at the Hollingsworth dogs? You've got that on the bottomside of your boy's pedigree, and it might be worth investigating further. I'm not sure just where you'd find one nowadays, but they've got to be out there.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

i don't have a journal on hand he is advertised in there. i too am looking and researching bloodlines to find an unquestionably pure gamebred female. anyone with suggestions please let us know. alot of the larger lines i am finding are apbt/amstaff mixes. that is fine with me imo it is all the same gene pool. just wondering what the larger gamelines are.


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## bahamutt99

You might want to check out Hollingsworth as well. They're larger. Like standard larger, but still larger. I'm thinking Machobuck was a larger dog as well but I can't say for sure.


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## gamer

CINCINNATIBULLIES said:


> tom garner has a 90 lb chainweight dog on his yard right now. pure chinaman blood.


he does not.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

i happen to know of a certain moderator on here that owns a 70 lb dog right now and it's skin and bones and it's completely jeep bred. and i have never seen this chinaman catchweight dog but if i had a journal i could post it. he asking for hunts at any weight. the advertisement is by mr. garner himself


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## gamer

I am just saying that Tom Doesnt own a 90 pound dog.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

i will find out this dogs name and let ya know. about 7-8 months ago the dog weighed 89 lbs. and it WAS on mr. garner's yard. i spoke to him on the phone was supposed to get a dynomite pup from him. don't remember how the subject came up about larger dogs but once it did mr. garner said he had this dog on his yard i heard it from the horses mouth. just for the record my timing is bad it might have been closer to a year ago.


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## gamer

CINCINNATIBULLIES said:


> i will find out this dogs name and let ya know. about 7-8 months ago the dog weighed 89 lbs. and it WAS on mr. garner's yard. i spoke to him on the phone was supposed to get a dynomite pup from him. don't remember how the subject came up about larger dogs but once it did mr. garner said he had this dog on his yard i heard it from the horses mouth. just for the record my timing is bad it might have been closer to a year ago.


Yeah get me that name.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

just got off the phone with my old kennel partner the dogs name was el ***** said to be 75-80 lbs conditioned, closer to 90 chainweight. he said mr. garner has several 75lb+ dogs down there.


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## gamer

el ***** was 55 pounds chain weight.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

don't know can't speak about anything other than what mr. garner said


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## gamer

so garner told you he was 90 pounds


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## gamer

meh it doesnt matter I talked ot Tom today and he doesnt have any 90 pound dogs and El ***** was not almost 90 pounds. bully people seem to want to tie their big dogs to dogs of the old and every dogman I talked too discredits it. So think what you will. He thought it was kinda funny and asked who said that and I told him internet people and I should know better than to even care what people think they know lol.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

i did talk to mr. garner myself. i don't care what he says, he did say that he had large 80-90 lb dog. i don't have the journal right here, but when i get my hands on the one he advertised this in i will pm it to you. i own both gamebred dogs and bullies i am aware of the difference. fully aware. i was not trying to link any old dogs to mine. i was simply pointing out that there ARE huge oversized 80-90-100-110 apbt that have existed for the last century. every dogman knows it if their honest with themselves. it is just not what they preferred in yesteryear. in the old days they didn't care what a dog looked like as long as it didnt quit. i am supposed to believe that over these hundred years there have been no huge dogs that were purebred? isn't it possible that these 100 lb monsters are 80 lb dogs completely overfed?


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## Black Rabbit

It is totally possible for an APBT to be bigger than 60lbs. My boy Dosia is currently 75lbs at 15 months. Both of his parents are around 50-55lbs as are most of his litter mates. Just because he's big doesn't make him a bully, he just got his size form bigger dogs down his line. Here's my boy Dosia










Just to add he is 24' from the ground to front shoulder, not the standard size but he is no bully.


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## Black Rabbit

Here's a ped that some one posted way back about the Plumer's Alligator blood line
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [171825] :: ROBINSON'S SNAPS

Let me try to to dig up the actual thread for you guys

And here you go bigger old school pits
http://www.gopitbull.com/bloodline-...ers-alligator-hammonds-rufus-blood-lines.html


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## gamer

kg420 said:


> Here's a ped that some one posted way back about the Plumer's Alligator blood line
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [171825] :: ROBINSON'S SNAPS
> 
> Let me try to to dig up the actual thread for you guys


I am always skeptical when there are unknowns in the ped


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## PrairieMoonPits

Personally I like both the Lar-San and most swogger dogs yes they are bigger than what the standard states but personally I like them. Hey Kim its Jaida - Whits (flatlands) friend. Hope to see one of your dogs on my yard one day sorry didn't work out with Socks! Great girl there.! Maybe we can figure something out for the furture.


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## Patch-O-Pits

gamer said:


> I am always skeptical when there are unknowns in the ped


 Since not everyone has access to online peds and not ever single dog registered to a reputable org is even listed on that site there are many dogs missing parts to their peds thus it does not make them mixed or of unknown decent just because on that particular site it isn't listed.


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## Black Rabbit

Patch-O-Pits said:


> Since not everyone has access to online peds and not ever single dog registered to a reputable org is even listed on that site there are many dogs missing parts to their peds thus it does not make them mixed or of unknown decent just because on that particular site it isn't listed.


:goodpost: Good point :clap:


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## 9361

Are there any health testing/working Castillo dogs?


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## Black Label Romo

Have you checked the Castillo Forum?
Here is a friend of mine from ABW's kennel...she works with the Castillo Line...

Homepage -


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## 9361

Yeah I just found the forum today. Joined up over there.


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## 9361

Nice dogs on that link John, thanks.


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## Padlock

gamer said:


> meh it doesnt matter I talked ot Tom today and he doesn't have any 90 pound dogs and El ***** was not almost 90 pounds. bully people seem to want to tie their big dogs to dogs of the old and every dogman I talked too discredits it. So think what you will. He thought it was kinda funny and asked who said that and I told him internet people and I should know better than to even care what people think they know lol.


people love to embellish the truth to make their own bad choices seem livable.


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## Old_Blood

Elizabeth said:


> I know it bothers many that my larger dog has Boogieman in his pedigree, but I would have you know that GR CH Boogieman has created larger dogs. My males dam was a direct daughter and she was 70lbs..... maybe it's the amstaff back in the pedigree popping out occassionally. LOL!
> Hey! you never know..... Food For Thought!


I don't see that anyone is bothered by it. Though it isn't the NORM. My dogs came directly from Tanya, they are not huge. The larger is 48lbs fat. The breedings I've continued haven't produced monsters. On average they are 30-40lbs. Most Boogieman dogs I know of fall within average weight range.

Was it ever considered that the size came from the bitch. I don't recognize the dogs in the pedigree, were they larger.


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## red baron

true they are not bullies but they are thicker.i've seen them via website and they didnt look fat too me.very healthy,a breeder i know has catillo blood and the ones i've seen werent that big.but very agile.


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## junkyard

Just remember people just because it isnt in the standard to be bigger it doesnt mean they are not apbt. 

Prime example Gr ch Mayday. Match weight 75pounds.


Second thread i have seen with this kim lady acting like a ****.


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## Rudy4747

junkyard said:


> Just remember people just because it isnt in the standard to be bigger it doesnt mean they are not apbt.
> 
> Prime example Gr ch Mayday. Match weight 75pounds.
> 
> Second thread i have seen with this kim lady acting like a ****.


Mayday was still in standard in every other way. he was a porprtionate dog. Not front heavy. He also had a nice back end.


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## bahamutt99

I don't think Mayday was matched at 75 lbs. The stories I've read put his pit weight at 58-60, if I remember correctly. I'd imagine 75-pound Mayday was *fat*.


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## Rudy4747

I don't know but would it not be had to match a 75 pound dog?


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## Sadie

Mayday was 75 lbs on the chain his conditioned weight varied based on the match he was his smallest at 58 lbs conditioned weight when he went up against Big Red. During another match against Big Dust's Ch.Budda, (6X) Mayday was 65 lbs conditioned during that particular match.


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## Sadie

Rudy4747 said:


> I don't know but would it not be had to match a 75 pound dog?


OTC Mayday was not that big that was all chain weight. He was matched between 58-65lbs  conditioned weight


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## Von Henik Bulldogs

bahamutt99 said:


> I'm not just speaking of Kim. I just notice things. There are several breeders out there now producing a large, over-standard, bulky chocolate dog. They don't show or work them, don't health-test. If they were producing shades of blue, most would call them bully breeders and BYBs. But instead we seem to see folks backing the breeders of the chocolate dogs and excusing where they are coming up short. At least that's my take on it. Perspectives will differ of course.


:clap:
I also agree.


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## Von Henik Bulldogs

Old_Blood said:


> I don't see that anyone is bothered by it. Though it isn't the NORM. My dogs came directly from Tanya, they are not huge. The larger is 48lbs fat. The breedings I've continued haven't produced monsters. On average they are 30-40lbs. Most Boogieman dogs I know of fall within average weight range.
> 
> Was it ever considered that the size came from the bitch. I don't recognize the dogs in the pedigree, were they larger.


:goodpost:


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## Chris' ToroFossa

Real Deal Chocolates produces excellent working APBT. The most titled pitbull in the world, Boogieman, is from Real Deal Choc's. They've also produced multiple champions and proven catch dogs. A lot of their dogs pedigrees are posted online


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## AGK

The most titled dog I'm pretty sure is still Dianne Jessups Gr Ch Bandog Dread. Was in the movie The good son with that meth head from home alone. What titles does Boogiman hold?


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