# Whopper?



## Gnarley44

Ive been hearing the term Whopper a lot lately, can anyone explain this Whopper to me?


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN

eddington's "wanna be a whopper", is an american bulldog that was registerd as a apbt for weight pull cometition and im not sure but wasonly supposed to be a competing dog and not a breeding dog but of coarse he was bred and the of spring was registerd as apbt. he is an Ace of Aces. Here he is. Viewing Pedigree Details for Eddington's "A/A Wanna Be A Whopper" - Bully Breed Resource
so a whopper bred dog would be like the original bully i think.


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## bahamutt99

Whopper was a Dogue/AmBulldog mix. Rumor has it his sire was Dick the Bruiser, not sure about the dam. BPBM has the gist of it.

Dick the Bruiser:










Dogue de Bordeaux


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## Firehazard

whopper line founded byEddie Eddington from Parkers Bouncer, a crushing 120lb pit dog(WTF???), that was defeated by a lil bitty gamey dog. Parkers BOUNCER is RUMORED to be AM bulldog because everyone knows its not pure..BUT AM Bulldog washes out in APBT bloodline, becaue AM bulldog is still scattered, scott type/johnson type no matter what they say, it washes out in APBT game bred dogs. Dogue de Bordeaux however, chuckles, well search all the whopper kennels, I have posted many.. Many look just like dogues when whopper is bred to Amstaff you get a AMbulldog looking dog. SEARCH THIS PED 
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [95687] :: SPAULDING'S CHEVY RED DOG Im going to add that the dogue used was most likely an original DOGUE that bloodline is pretty much extinct as the Dogues now are from Bullmastiff crossouts in an attempt to save the breed. Original dogues were supposed to be giant game dogs more so Tosas, and Boerboels. I imagine this is why the breeder of merit Eddie Eddington done what he done because in his mind the dogue would wash out leaving giant gamebred APBTs.. I see more man eaters than anything.


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## geisthexe

Firehazard said:


> whopper line founded byEddie Eddington from Parkers Bouncer, a crushing 120lb pit dog(WTF???), that was defeated by a lil bitty gamey dog. Parkers BOUNCER is RUMORED to be AM bulldog because everyone knows its not pure..BUT AM Bulldog washes out in APBT bloodline, becaue AM bulldog is still scattered, scott type/johnson type no matter what they say, it washes out in APBT game bred dogs. Dogue de Bordeaux however, chuckles, well search all the whopper kennels, I have posted many.. Many look just like dogues when whopper is bred to Amstaff you get a AMbulldog looking dog. SEARCH THIS PED
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [95687] :: SPAULDING'S CHEVY RED DOG Im going to add that the dogue used was most likely an original DOGUE that bloodline is pretty much extinct as the Dogues now are from Bullmastiff crossouts in an attempt to save the breed. Original dogues were supposed to be giant game dogs more so Tosas, and Boerboels. I imagine this is why the breeder of merit Eddie Eddington done what he done because in his mind the dogue would wash out leaving giant gamebred APBTs.. I see more man eaters than anything.


Where do you get your information from? I would LOVE to read it cause you are SO FAR off when it comes to the DB.

History of the DB

The French Mastiff is an ancient breed of Alaunt origin, related to the old Spanish, English and Italian mastiffs of Roman times. Its French heritage is often disputed, seeing how the Bordeaux region of France was ruled by English Kings, which are thought to have brought their mastiffs and bulldogges with them, where they interbred with local hounds and cattle dogs. Dogs of this type existed all over Europe, so it's most likely that the French Dogue and the English Mastiff were mutually influential. There were also the smaller fighting breeds, such as the Doguin d'Aquitaine and Bouledogue du Midi, as well as the giant Toulouse Bulldog that contributed to the development of early working French Mastiffs. Working dogs of Spain, such as the Alano Espanol and the Perro de Toro Espanol are believed to have had an influence on the early French baiting dogs, also. The modern French Mastiff was developed by crossing the best representatives of the Parisien, Bordelais and Toulousain mastiffs, all of which are considered by most authorities to be different types of the same French Mastiff breed.
This is a breed that knows no fear, used for centuries as a large game hunter, as well as for baiting and fighting sports. Although nowhere as nearly ferocious as it was in the past, a well-bred Bordeaux Mastiff can still a great property guardian and service dog today. Very massive and intimidating, this lovely wide-chested breed posesses an agreeable personality and makes a wonderful family dog. Even though the red-nosed examples of this breed are the most common, some dogs have black or brown noses, depending on the coat colour and bloodline.

Dogue de Bordeaux

An the American Bulldog .. You do have folks breeding other things into them NO different then your AMERICAN PIT BULL ..

Here is the history on ABs

Originating in 1700\'s America, the Old Country Bulldogge was developed from the original British and Irish bulldog variety, as well as other European working dogs of the Bullenbeisser and Alaunt ancestry. Many fanciers believe that the original White English Bulldogge survived in America, where it became known as the American Pit Bulldog, Old Southern White Bulldogge and Alabama Bulldog, among other names. A few regional types were established, with the most popular dogs found in the South, where the famous large white plantation bulldogges were the most valued. Some bloodlines were crossed with Irish and English pit-fighting dogs influenced with English White Terrier blood, resulting in the larger strains of the American Pit Bull Terrier, as well as the smaller variety of the American Bulldog. Although there were quite a few "bulldogges" developed in America, the modern American Bulldog breed is separately recognized. Unlike most bully breeds, this lovely bulldog's main role wasn't that of a fighting dog, but rather of a companion and worker. Quite larger than most bulldogs, it excels in dog sports like weight-pulling and makes a great farm dog and even a capable hunter. 
While the old bulldogges were disappearing in Europe and England, the American variety remained unchanged until the WW2, when their numbers declined drastically, inspiring a few enthusiasts to unite in an effort to save the breed from extinction. In the 1960\'s, John D. Johnson and Alan Scott joined forces with Louis Hegwood, George Lee Williamson, Calvin Tuck and others in collecting surviving southern bulldogges and selecting the best specimens to serve as a foundation for the revival programme. After the decision to abandon the American Pit Bulldog name to avoid confusion with the APBT, the breed was registered as the American Bulldog. Outcrosses were necessary early on to increase the gene pool and the population of the breed, but not everyone agreed with the choices some breeders made. Although an important figure in the development of the modern American Bulldog as a recognized breed, Johnson decided to introduce the English Bulldog into his lines, alienating a great number of enthusiasts in the process, many of which never fully got over it. Due to disagreements over the ideal type and breeding practices, Alan Scott and J.D.Johnson put an end to their colaboration, opting to go their separate ways and breed their dogs based on their personal ideals. To this day, two main types of the modern American Bulldog are the Johnson and Scott bloodlines, but other strains exist, like Painter, Leclerc, Hines, Old Southern White and so on. 
Large, massive and broad-headed, the well-mannered, yet very protective Johnson dogs remain more popular as family pets and PP dogs than the smaller and lighter built Scott Performance bulldogges, which are considered to be far superiour farm workers and hog hunters. However, most present-day dogs are crosses between all the types, as well as some other bully breeds. There is currently some talk of possibly classifying pure J.D.Johnson dogs as a separate breed in the future, due to noticeable differences in appearance, as well as common conflicts within the American Bulldog breeder community, concerning the breed's Standard and purity guidelines. It has been rumoured that the modern Johnson lines contain some English Mastiff and even St.Bernard blood, but this hasn't been proven. Even though the Scott type was directly developed by crossing early Johnson's dogs with more tenacious breeds, such as the American Pit Bull Terrier, it is gradually becoming accepted as the breed ideal, regularly outperforming its ancestors. This is partly due to the value placed by many bulldogge fanciers on function, rather than form of working dogs. The American Bulldog was officially recognized by the United Kennel Club in 1999 and is enjoying great popularity in the U.S. and around the world.
The American Bulldog is a courageous guardian and a loving family pet, but it needs experienced handling and early socialization. Even though this breed is not as dog-aggressive as some bullies, it does like to play rough and won\'t back away from a confrontation. Unfortunately, some misguided owners foolishly put these dogs into fighting arenas with Pit Bulls and other breeds, almost always with terrible consequences. There are also some unpure bloodlines to be found, so potential buyers should be careful. Boxers, Bullmastiffs, Presa Canarios, Olde English Bulldogges, AmStaffs and other bullies are at times crossed into the American Bulldog bloodlines, sometimes with the intention of improving its working abilities, but more often simply for appearance and other reasons. Due to this breed's ever-increasing popularity in America and worldwide, potential owners should carefully research A.B. breeders in order to ensure a quality purebred purchase and to avoid Pit Bull crosses and poorly bred dogs. The American Bulldog is a strongly built, powerful and energetic dog, completely devoted to its owner.

American Bulldog


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## Firehazard

geisthexe said:


> Where do you get your information from? I would LOVE to read it cause you are SO FAR off when it comes to the DB.
> 
> History of the DB
> 
> The French Mastiff is an ancient breed of Alaunt origin, related to the old Spanish, English and Italian mastiffs of Roman times. Its French heritage is often disputed, seeing how the Bordeaux region of France was ruled by English Kings, which are thought to have brought their mastiffs and bulldogges with them, where they interbred with local hounds and cattle dogs. Dogs of this type existed all over Europe, so it's most likely that the French Dogue and the English Mastiff were mutually influential. There were also the smaller fighting breeds, such as the Doguin d'Aquitaine and Bouledogue du Midi, as well as the giant Toulouse Bulldog that contributed to the development of early working French Mastiffs. Working dogs of Spain, such as the Alano Espanol and the Perro de Toro Espanol are believed to have had an influence on the early French baiting dogs, also. The modern French Mastiff was developed by crossing the best representatives of the Parisien, Bordelais and Toulousain mastiffs, all of which are considered by most authorities to be different types of the same French Mastiff breed.
> This is a breed that knows no fear, used for centuries as a large game hunter, as well as for baiting and fighting sports. Although nowhere as nearly ferocious as it was in the past, a well-bred Bordeaux Mastiff can still a great property guardian and service dog today. Very massive and intimidating, this lovely wide-chested breed posesses an agreeable personality and makes a wonderful family dog. Even though the red-nosed examples of this breed are the most common, some dogs have black or brown noses, depending on the coat colour and bloodline.
> 
> Dogue de Bordeaux
> 
> An the American Bulldog .. You do have folks breeding other things into them NO different then your AMERICAN PIT BULL ..
> 
> Here is the history on ABs
> 
> American Bulldog


hahaha, lol, although I DO LIKE THAT SITE: try some history books rather than the same propaganda info given by the registries w/ an agenda of politics rather than truth. Dr.DieterFLeig, has some good historical points, as well as back in 2000 before I got my APBT I was calling places all over europe trying to decide on a Dogue, canary, cane and talking w/ those people I found out from DOGUE BREEDERS that the breed is not the same, and it was originally a game gladiator. Just as I found out cane are purebred mutts and Canary/Presas have alot of guff going on about what is and what isnt. POLITICS which also tells us we have a APBT, but the men who coined these lil dogs called them bulldogs...

History on DBs

The Dogue's history is believed to predate the Bullmastiff and the Bulldog. It is said that the Dogue can be found in the background of the Bullmastiff, and other claim the the Dogue and the Bullmastiff breeds were both being accomplished at the same time. Some believe that the Bulldog is the building block of the Dogue, and again, another group believes that the Bulldog was used in the breeding programs further down the line. Another theory, is that it originates from the Tibetan Mastiff.
Dr. Raymond Triquet is quoted as saying: "It is often said that the common stem of all European Dogues was a big dog coming from the confines of India and China, more than 3000 years ago, and by stages would have gone from Thibet to Mesopotamia, there, where begins the history of men, then to Epire, small kingdom of ancient Molosse; then to Rome and from there to Gaule. He would have made this long journey by the side of conquerors, warriors, and merchants. It is possible that this prestigious connections part true, but let us not forget the fact, maybe preponderant, that archeologists have found in the land that would become France, bones of dogs dating from prehistory, bones that were those of a Dogue." 
There are notions that the Dogue has ties to the Alano, an extinct dog of Spain, similar in many ways to the Bordeaux. It is said that this dog was brought to Europe by the Alans, an Oriental tribe. It is also said the Bordeaux is related to the Greco-Roman mollosids used for war, as there was a breed similar to the Dogue de Bordeaux in Rome at the time of Julius Caesar's reign. This would make the Dogue a cousin to the Neapolitan Mastiff. Yet another theory suggests that the Dogue is a descendent of a breed which existed in France a long time ago. 
In France, the Dogues were bred depending on the region and jobs they were required to do. The general appearance was inconsistent, the Dogue had various colors and varieties of coat, they had scissors bites in some regions, undershot in others, but they all had a general type similar to today's Dogues.
We do know the Dogue de Bordeaux was used as a guardian, a hunter, and a fighter. They were trained to bait bulls, bears, and jaguars; hunt boars; heard cattle; and protect the homes, butchershops and vineyards of their masters. The Dogue de Bordeaux were prized as protectors and were often found in the home of the noble and wealthy of France.
During the French Revolution, many of the Dogues are thought to have perished with their wealthy masters during the uprising of the classes, but the Dogues of the common man must have thrived. These Dogues became the champions of the arena, and were powerful dogs bred to do their jobs and do them well.
It was in 1863 when the first reference of the Dogue can be found, at the first canine exhibition at the Jardin d'Acclimatation in Paris, France. It was more of an inventory of breeds than a conformation event. The winner was a bitch named Magentas, and the Dogue de Bordeaux was given the name of the capital of their region of origin.
_There is not other known reference to the Dogue until the year 1883. There was such diversity in the breed at this time, and much controversy over this. They had big heads and small heads, some were exceptionally large in body, while others very small. Some breeders preferred the scissors bite, others the undershot. The mask color was the subject of many debates and discussions. There were three styles of Dogue at this time, the Toulouse, the Paris, and the Bordeaux. Our modern Dogue is a mixture of these different types, but is primarily Bordeaux._ ((*PRIMARILY*)) The Toulouse was a Dogue that had almost every color in its coat, a fawnish tiger (a light brindle perhaps), with a longer body and smaller bones. Dogues in Paris had a scissors bite, while others had a undershot of almost one inch. Finally the breeders came together and decided upon the undershot, which is today's standard.
In 1895 a few breeders tried to establish the Dogue in England, and also that year, John Proctor or Antwerp, who had judged the Dogue de Bordeaux, published an account of his experiences with the "fighting dogs of the South of France" in the magazine, The Stock Keeper. 
In 1896, Pierre Mengin put together a synthesis of the best Dogue de Bordeaux shown and know from 1863-1895. He published Le Dogue de Bordeaux, that featured a description and characteristics true to the Dogue. This effort, put forward by Mr. Brooke, Mr. Mengin, Dr. Wiart, and a group of authorities in France, was the first standard of the Dogue de Bordeaux.
In 1897, Henry de Bylants work, The Breeds of Dogs, introduced the breed standard to the world of dog breeders. J. Kunstler, Professor of Comparative Anatomy of the Science Facility of Bordeaux, studied the Dogues in 1907 and in 1910 published A Critique Etude du Dogue de Bordeaux (A Critical Study of the Dogue de Bordeaux).
During the 1960's, Dr. Raymond Triquet headed the rebuilding of the breed, and in 1970, Dr. Triquet wrote the new standard for the Dogue de Bordeaux. The standard has once again been updated, this time by Dr. Triquet and Mr. Tim Taylor.
The Dogue can also be credited to taking part in the breeding programs of two other mastiffs, the Argentine Dogo and the Tosa.
Dr. Martinez, who bred "The Fighting Dogs of Cordoba" or the Argentine Dogo, used a menagerie of breeds to produce the Dogo, and the Bordeaux was used to increase the size of the head and accentuate the overall courage, strength and jaw strength.
During the 1930's, the Bordeaux were imported to Japan to cross with the Tosa (Fighting Dog of Japan). This increased the head size and the overall body size of the Tosa.
It was a Dr. Philip Todd who is credited with bringing the Dogue to the United States in the 1960's, although evidence of Dogues in the 1920's has been found.
Dr. Todd moved to Holland with his Dogues, and there were no other records of any in the country until 1969 when Steve and Wendy Norris, with the help of Dr. Todd, began to import Dogue de Bordeaux into the United States.
It was in the 1980's when the United States saw a small Dogue boom occur. In 1986 Touchstone released Turner and Hooch, showing a big messy slobbering Dogue, which was believed to be a Bullmastiff or mutt. In reality, it was the Dogue de Bordeaux. 
The Dogue was brought in to the country mainly by dog brokers, and many people received below par stock. But thorough the years, the Americans have improved this stock, with selective and careful breeding, to have some of the finest Dogues in the world.
Today there are breeders of Dogue de Bordeaux that stretch form New Jersey to California, Texas to North Dakota. One must be careful when purchasing a Dogue de Bordeaux, although they are considered a rare breed in the US, they carry a hefty price tag and are a favorite breed among the puppy millers.
The Dogue is not yet a recognized AKC breed, and they may be in the far, or near feature. They are recognized world wide by the FCI, and are a UKC recognized breed. There are a myriad of rare breed shows for the Dogue, that they are eligible to compete in.

I have more litterature, and I should have noted it was back in the 1800s so that it wasn't percieved as a modern or post modern action. PRIMARILY DOGUE but not WHOLE... YES we have made a better dogue but that doesnt mean we can sweep history under the rug.. SAME SENERIO w/ the GERMAN KAMPFER that came over in the 1800s IT WAS A GERMAN PIT BULL PRACTICALLY, they had red noses black noses, large small snipey and blocky... POLITICS changed that, and told us the BOXER was named that because it throws its feet when it fights.. ROFALMAO...


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## geisthexe

You are going to quote off a guy Dr.DieterFLeig about DBs? He is a SBT man. 

Second WHERE DID YOU GET THAT HISTORY OF THE DBs? Please post link 

And about not liking that site well Most do and few dont. 
So I have decided to quote you on that site for the DB folks so they can tell me if you are true or not .. BREEDERS will tell you anything REMEMBER that .. they want to SELL a puppy.. Just look at how many get called out on here alone! 

So I will post what they stated....


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## Firehazard

SORRY IT SO LONG TO REPOST... Cookin for tha kiddos... havin a lil pancakes and what not.. anyway... I brought up Flieg, because he is the oldest historical refference of FIGHTING DOGS. the general public has access to. I have other material and have paid up to as much as just under $400.00 for books of a historical reference, esspecially since theres always been an political agenda to control what we know and tell how to think and live, that pushes great reference books of merit, out of print. Another easly acquired resource for people to pull in and compare is Dr.Siemenic work and research along w/ yes what your told on the phone. _I was curious.. However you must have misunderstood. What makes you think this is what I wanted to hear when talking w/ these people, as I was not even interested in a APBT at that time. Also I said " I LIKE THAT SITE TOO!!" _ If you think I argue to be right, I've already succeeded, LOL JK, I only argue to prove ppl wrong  so Im not insulted, and I would assume you aren't either. Playing devils advocate.. The Dogue De Bordeaux


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## scparrish

pretty much larger bully type pulling dogs mostly. If you want to see some look at drawthelinekennels.com I really like some of their dogs


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## Black Rabbit

bahamutt99 said:


> Whopper was a Dogue/AmBulldog mix. Rumor has it his sire was Dick the Bruiser, not sure about the dam. BPBM has the gist of it.
> 
> Dick the Bruiser:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogue de Bordeaux


Woo Hoo I love seeing pics of that boy, My old American bulldog Mack had Dick the Bruiser in his ped. :woof:


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## crocro49

its almost impossible to find a non waterd down DB nowadays


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## boogiebot

i cant believe how much knowledge some of you have....its crazy. thanks for sharing this stuff guys!


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## mamas boy

i agree boogiebot its preet cool


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## IRONHIDE

Wopper was a black brindle dog I believe eddington himself said he was a bandog ie bullmastiff/pitbull either way this thread took up to much space this is go'pitbull'.com not go'mutt'.com right ?


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## angelbaby

IRONHIDE said:


> Wopper was a black brindle dog I believe eddington himself said he was a bandog ie bullmastiff/pitbull either way this thread took up to much space this is go'pitbull'.com not go'mutt'.com right ?


All bully breeds are welcome here and any dog discussion is also welcome. Id suggest taking a look around there are many threads on "other" breeds other then "pitbulls"


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## ames

IRONHIDE said:


> Wopper was a black brindle dog I believe eddington himself said he was a bandog ie bullmastiff/pitbull either way this thread took up to much space this is go'pitbull'.com not go'mutt'.com right ?


I love almost all dogs, pit bull or papered, and learning everything I can about any part of their history. Who cares if a dog is a mutt I like how there is so much information on here that helps lots of people. Hope you can see it that way one day too. These days most pit bull type dogs are mutts, this helps people see the different kinds out there...


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## Chimera Kennels

Check out this topic... http://www.gopitbull.com/working-dogs/40069-swinford-swineford.html

Or this one... The Original Weight Pull Board: Some pictures of some of Bob Bonacorsi's dogs...


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## Patch-O-Pits

I always found it incredibly sad for the breed that that dog was allowed to be registered as an APBT....


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