# Bloodlines



## Cindy1979 (Mar 17, 2011)

Are swogger, greyline and ruffian American Bully ore APBT bloodlines??
Thanks!


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

I know that Greyline is American Bully. I've never heard Ruffian talked about, so IDK on that one.


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

ruffian was an amstaff if i remember correctly


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

ya I thought ruffian was am staff as well I thought grey line was originally am staff as well alot of bullys have grey line in them now , it was the foundation for the gotti line. swogger im not sure on haven't heard of that one yet.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm pretty sure I've seen Kim Swogger posting on here before and answering similar questions about her dogs. They are heavy boned "UKC type" dogs.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Kim Swogger and her "crew" breed strictly for the red coats. She has a website, or used to (not sure if she still has it) but she is/was a member here. If you search at the top, you can find threads by her or threads she has posted in regarding her dogs.

http://www.gopitbull.com/bloodline-discussion/30167-what-do-you-think-pedigree.html

This thread should help you out some.


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

Ruffian is an AmStaff Bloodline that was based on the AKC Ch. The Ruffian who was whelped in 1938 and had a ton of Tudor dogs behind him.

Ch.The Ruffian ped


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

The ruffian is supposed to be am staff.. greyline I see alot in bullies and I've never heard of swogger


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## Cindy1979 (Mar 17, 2011)

Thank you for your respons. This breeder use those bloodlines...are the dogs APBT or American Bullies or......?

http://www.purepowerkennels.com


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

Cindy1979 said:


> Thank you for your respons. This breeder use those bloodlines...are the dogs APBT or American Bullies or......?
> 
> http://www.purepowerkennels.com


I guess you did not read my response or the others that explaind the Ruffian Line?!?! Those are NOT what anyone one should consider an APBT. There is not a single pedigree listed on their site and they do not have any of their dogs titles listed. So I'm assuming there aren't any! What a joke!

Below is a list from their website of Bloodlines they're breeding. By the way, I'm sure you could get that same combination of Blood at your local pound for FREE!

O.G. Greyline - O.G. Muttt
Ruffian -AST going back to Tudor dogs. One of the better early AST Bloodlines.
Watchdog - Started off as questionable APBT turned into a Mutt
Ganghis Kon - Who Cares
Chaos - Whatever
Dangerzone - Mutt 
Swoggers - I have no clue and could care less
Camelot - Started off as APBT and turned into Dogue de Bordeaux Mutts
Razors Edge - The Biggest Joke in Bull Dogs!


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## JimSG74 (Dec 29, 2010)

Funny that you call Dangerzone mutts, I would disagree 10000%. They are big boned catch dogs, pure drive and excel in just about any venue. My 100% dangerzone dog was an A/A, UWPCH weight puller as well as being an ADBA Ch in the show ring. He was even starting to earn a title in agility before he got hurt. Granted any dog can do this, regardless of papers, but he had a solid ped to back him up too. Maybe he didn't fit the game dog size and what not, but he was a damn fine "mutt". The DZ bloodline has a solid foundation if you bother to go and read about it, certainly not mutts.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

The comment above by elvis is strictly his opinion and some of the comments I disagree with 100% . razors edge and Ghangis kon are american bully lines, Grey line and watch dog you see in alot of bullys these days as well. Depending on the dog and what exact lines they have they sound to most likely be american bullys, possibly as staff in some cases. If they are using ALL those lines up there together sounds like they dont know what they are doing and if all those are found in 1 dogs line I would venture out to just call them scatter bred.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

JimSG74 said:


> Funny that you call Dangerzone mutts, I would disagree 10000%. They are big boned catch dogs, pure drive and excel in just about any venue. My 100% dangerzone dog was an A/A, UWPCH weight puller as well as being an ADBA Ch in the show ring. He was even starting to earn a title in agility before he got hurt. Granted any dog can do this, regardless of papers, but he had a solid ped to back him up too. Maybe he didn't fit the game dog size and what not, but he was a damn fine "mutt". The DZ bloodline has a solid foundation if you bother to go and read about it, certainly not mutts.


DZ dogs are game apbt


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

Elvisfink said:


> I guess you did not read my response or the others that explaind the Ruffian Line?!?! Those are NOT what anyone one should consider an APBT. There is not a single pedigree listed on their site and they do not have any of their dogs titles listed. So I'm assuming there aren't any! What a joke!
> 
> Below is a list from their website of Bloodlines they're breeding. By the way, I'm sure you could get that same combination of Blood at your local pound for FREE!
> 
> ...


watchdog WAS game apbt until chaos took it over. you can talk to chaos about it.


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## SMiGGs (Jul 6, 2011)

zohawn said:


> DZ dogs are game apbt





zohawn said:


> watchdog WAS game apbt until chaos took it over. you can talk to chaos about it.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to zohawn again.


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

SMeGGs Go search through this forum and look through my posts. I have my opinions for sure. The majority of my posts are photos or helpful insight from my 30 years of owning Pit Bulls. On occasion and usually after a few beers I can be kind of a smart ass. Like the time I was posting about Midgets. What I posted in this thread is my opinion and my opinion is based on what I’ve seen and read. Yes, some of it I read on the internet! What I posted about the Ruffian Bloodline I got from the late Jane Rebello who bred some great looking and great working AST’s out here in SoCal back in the early 80’s. I had the pleasure of hanging out with her many times. What I posted on Watchdog I read in books like The Complete Gamedog and what a breeder I know in Riverside told me about Casey Courtier. RE, we’ll everyone’s read the story of how Dave Wilson mixed breeds together to create his line. Yes, people say he retracted it or he was misquoted. I think it’s the truth. Yes, that came off the internet. I’ve always hear that Dangerzone had AST blood in their line hence my Mutt comment. Also containing AST Blood is Greyline. They also produced Notorious Juan Gotty. Now that pedigree has been debated for years on……. Wait for it……. Wait….The internet!! I know nothing about Genghis Kon, Chaos or swagger so I posted that I didn’t know or care about those lines. One final note. Most people on here know I love game bred dogs, but they also know I’m not a Bully or AST hater at all. I would never own either breed, but that a personal choice . The only thing I hate about a lot of Bully Breeders is that they market their dogs as an APBT when they’re not and they know the papers are hung. That brings us back to an earlier thread. Why would some call their dog a Bully when their UKC or worst yet their ADBA pedigree states they own an American Pit Bull Terrier. I will stop using the Mutt. I will now substitute that word with Mongrel “a dog of mixed or indeterminate breed.” SMeGGs have a better day!


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## Cindy1979 (Mar 17, 2011)

I would like to learn more about bloodlines because in The Netherlands the Apbt the American Bully is a very rare breed. Most people and breeders know nothing about bloodlines and before I buy an APBT or Bully and want to learn so much as possible about te breed and bloodlines. English is not my native language so my apologies if I understand something wrong.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Elvisfink said:


> SMeGGs Go search through this forum and look through my posts. I have my opinions for sure. The majority of my posts are photos or helpful insight from my 30 years of owning Pit Bulls. On occasion and usually after a few beers I can be kind of a smart ass. Like the time I was posting about Midgets. What I posted in this thread is my opinion and my opinion is based on what I've seen and read. Yes, some of it I read on the internet! What I posted about the Ruffian Bloodline I got from the late Jane Rebello who bred some great looking and great working AST's out here in SoCal back in the early 80's. I had the pleasure of hanging out with her many times. What I posted on Watchdog I read in books like The Complete Gamedog and what a breeder I know in Riverside told me about Casey Courtier. RE, we'll everyone's read the story of how Dave Wilson mixed breeds together to create his line. Yes, people say he retracted it or he was misquoted. I think it's the truth. Yes, that came off the internet. I've always hear that Dangerzone had AST blood in their line hence my Mutt comment. Also containing AST Blood is Greyline. They also produced Notorious Juan Gotty. Now that pedigree has been debated for years on&#8230;&#8230;. Wait for it&#8230;&#8230;. Wait&#8230;.The internet!! I know nothing about Genghis Kon, Chaos or swagger so I posted that I didn't know or care about those lines. One final note. Most people on here know I love game bred dogs, but they also know I'm not a Bully or AST hater at all. I would never own either breed, but that a personal choice . The only thing I hate about a lot of Bully Breeders is that they market their dogs as an APBT when they're not and they know the papers are hung. That brings us back to an earlier thread. Why would some call their dog a Bully when their UKC or worst yet their ADBA pedigree states they own an American Pit Bull Terrier. I will stop using the Mutt. I will now substitute that word with Mongrel "a dog of mixed or indeterminate breed." SMeGGs have a better day!


You can appreciate a nice dog, I will vouch for that. Earl and Ivy are more suited for your lifestyle and you do hella work with them, for which I commend you. I will say that you have never said an ill word about my dogs and have always been respectful towards my posts.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

Elvisfink said:


> SMeGGs Go search through this forum and look through my posts. I have my opinions for sure. The majority of my posts are photos or helpful insight from my 30 years of owning Pit Bulls. On occasion and usually after a few beers I can be kind of a smart ass. Like the time I was posting about Midgets. What I posted in this thread is my opinion and my opinion is based on what I've seen and read. Yes, some of it I read on the internet! What I posted about the Ruffian Bloodline I got from the late Jane Rebello who bred some great looking and great working AST's out here in SoCal back in the early 80's. I had the pleasure of hanging out with her many times. What I posted on Watchdog I read in books like The Complete Gamedog and what a breeder I know in Riverside told me about Casey Courtier. RE, we'll everyone's read the story of how Dave Wilson mixed breeds together to create his line. Yes, people say he retracted it or he was misquoted. I think it's the truth. Yes, that came off the internet. I've always hear that Dangerzone had AST blood in their line hence my Mutt comment. Also containing AST Blood is Greyline. They also produced Notorious Juan Gotty. Now that pedigree has been debated for years on&#8230;&#8230;. Wait for it&#8230;&#8230;. Wait&#8230;.The internet!! I know nothing about Genghis Kon, Chaos or swagger so I posted that I didn't know or care about those lines. One final note. Most people on here know I love game bred dogs, but they also know I'm not a Bully or AST hater at all. I would never own either breed, but that a personal choice . The only thing I hate about a lot of Bully Breeders is that they market their dogs as an APBT when they're not and they know the papers are hung. That brings us back to an earlier thread. Why would some call their dog a Bully when their UKC or worst yet their ADBA pedigree states they own an American Pit Bull Terrier. I will stop using the Mutt. I will now substitute that word with Mongrel "a dog of mixed or indeterminate breed." SMeGGs have a better day!


LOL. That was very well stated. And I also, like you, have been around these dogs a long time, about 35 years since I was a kid. And what you have said is basically all true. 
If you have been in SCal that long, then you might remember that the only place I knew of that you could get a good apbt back then was from Vera Storms out of E.LA


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

dday said:


> LOL. That was very well stated. And I also, like you, have been around these dogs a long time, about 35 years since I was a kid. And what you have said is basically all true.
> If you have been in SCal that long, then you might remember that the only place I knew of that you could get a good apbt back then was from Vera Storms out of E.LA


I know who you're talking about, but I never meet her. Did you ever go to the weight pulls out at Legg Lake Park? There was always a handful of good dogs out there.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

Elvisfink said:


> I know who you're talking about, but I never meet her. Did you ever go to the weight pulls out at Legg Lake Park? There was always a handful of good dogs out there.


No, there wasn't any weight pulls in the late 70's or early 80's that I was aware of at that time. I did go to some adba sanction events that had weight pulls off of the I 10 fwy in Colton in early 90's though.


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> You obviously know nothing about Doug. Do your homework Smiggs before you start making an ass of yourself.


I was about to say that lol. I think there are some 15 to 20 titles attached to Earl and Ivy


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

dday said:


> No, there wasn't any weight pulls in the late 70's or early 80's that I was aware of at that time. I did go to some adba sanction events that had weight pulls off of the I 10 fwy in Colton in early 90's though.


No, the pulls at Legg Lake were late 80's into the 90's. I didn't get my first APBT until 82.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

If you have nothing that refers to the original post don't post here! This is for everyone not aimed at whoever posted last after I got delete the hell outta this thread. ( The irrelevant chit chat is ok guys  just not the bickering)


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## Hanabal (Apr 6, 2013)

Elvisfink said:


> I know who you're talking about, but I never meet her. Did you ever go to the weight pulls out at Legg Lake Park? There was always a handful of good dogs out there.


my dogs are Vera Storm bloodline from her personal stock and they are wonderfull dogs


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

ok, this is for the guy askin the question and all those west coasters talkin bout the good old days. i'm from N.C. and was around back when your talking about.

the dogs that are in that dogs pedigree wereht around then, i think watch dog was, but they were huge and nobody wanted any, you couldnt give them to the gamedog people.

then i stepped away few a little bit came back and there was 'blues' and 'bully's' 
where the heck did they come from???????? razor's edge, never heard of it or one single event that one was in on the east coast.

so, i've still got to agree with ya'lls conclusion, all of those dogs are mix breeds.

the one that said he'd been messin with the dogs for 30yrs, he knows, if it wasnt a game apbt, it was only one other thing,

A CUR,PLAIN AND SIMPLE.


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## Festae4me (May 1, 2013)

*What does a name look like?*

Is there a website or anyone that can show me some examples of the different bloodlines or all the names of dogs and have images of what the dogs look like?

My wife and I had helped a family and held there 2 year old Bully Luna while they got back on there feet. Well, THat Bully won her and even I over. But all the craigslist puppies and pound dogs seem a bit on either the TALL and/or slim side. And there Bully had a nice full broad chest, and a big block head. She was not tall but she was not a low rider like Bully either.

We find all these different names, from the GENERIC "pitbull" to, bluenose, stafshire, and I think ridge back. I dont know. Just looking for a place or someone that can help me help her find her own puppy Bully she is now so in love with.

THanks, And I am still searching through the forum. THanks.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Festae4me said:


> Is there a website or anyone that can show me some examples of the different bloodlines or all the names of dogs and have images of what the dogs look like?
> 
> My wife and I had helped a family and held there 2 year old Bully Luna while they got back on there feet. Well, THat Bully won her and even I over. But all the craigslist puppies and pound dogs seem a bit on either the TALL and/or slim side. And there Bully had a nice full broad chest, and a big block head. She was not tall but she was not a low rider like Bully either.
> 
> ...


I will tell you now that Craigslist is definitely not the place to be looking for a specific breed of dog, as people will post anything to sell or rehome a dog/puppy. You can search for breeders' web pages for an American Bully, if that's definitely what you're looking for. There are a few reputable breeders out there who are breeding correct dogs. The only sites where you'll find names and pictures of the dogs are either on breeders' web sites or on bully pedia looking at a specific pedigree. Perhaps someone else can be of more assistance to you in this area, but I'm not that savvy on the breeders in that area. I hope I've been of some assistance to you.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

what you should do is put yourself in a place where there are the type of dog your looking for eg. dog shows, when you see one that wins you over, introduce yourself and explain that you like their dog and would like o have one just like it, do they have any for sale or could they put you on the right path to finding one.

they will start beaming and bragging, because everyone is proud of their dog, and if someone else notices it also, your pumping them up.

and they'll be glad to help if they can, but dont jump on the first one even if you come back to it you should still look around, because you never know.

good luck tho,


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## mccoypitbulls (Nov 26, 2009)

good advice right there. Its like playing cards and I typically stay away from someone who toots their own horn. gotta really feel folks out.


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