# Bully or not?



## Mach0

I have a debate here. We all can agree that we should all register our bullies with the ABKC. What about the dogs who don't quite make the cut? Or measure up to the bully standard regardless of lines. There are breeders on and off this site who's bullies don't quite fit the " standards" in the ABKC- but fit the UKC or even the ADBA. I know there are ppl on here who fall in this category as well. Now I know there have been some crossing but it's safe to say that classic bullies are pitterstaffs not crazy mastiff/bulldog/corso mixes.

For example- my dog isn't bully enough- looks more like a UKC build and he's registered ADBA but won't do well in the ADBA.

He is going to get registered with the ABKC but I don't think he would do well until they get more realistic classes and judges who judge and stick to the set standard. The only thing I have to look forward to is wp events.








And look at this - apbt/ classic bully mix is UKC registered apbt and is a two time agility champ. This is friends dog of mine and he refuses to show ABKC because he hates fat sloppy dogs.










Take a look at these dogs- how the heck can they compete in the ABKC.

AGAINST THE WIND KENNELS - Montana based breeder of performance Pit Bulls

I guess my rambling will conclude With one basic question- what are the bully owners supposed to do when their so called bullies are clearly more apbt or pitterstaffs? I know everything right now is still in a big ol blob- apbt, bullies, pitterstaffs, or the mix of them all. Now I strongly believe that the breeds should be kept seperate and registered under the proper breed name with the proper registry. I also believe that alot of ppl won't do so until the ABKC gets it together.


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## aimee235

Does Against the Wind show ABKC? I think only some of her dogs have what could be considered bully lines. 

I think if someone is breeding for bully's they should most definitely register and show their dogs ABKC.

I've had an apbt that didn't fit the standard very well. So obviously she wouldn't have been winning any shows. What that means is that she's just not breeding worthy. In my opinion anyway because if the dog barely resembles it's breed there is something wrong. It doesn't change the fact that she is APBT. Winning or loosing shows does not make your dog of that breed or not that breed it just means they are not the best looking of that breed.

So I think it would be the same for bullys. If your bully does not fit the standard set in place then it's still a bully and should be registered as such.


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## Sadie

The ABKC needs to have different weight classes because not all bullys are XXL .. They need to make room for the classic style bullies IMO


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## Mach0

aimee235 said:


> Does Against the Wind show ABKC? I think only some of her dogs have what could be considered bully lines.
> 
> I think if someone is breeding for bully's they should most definitely register and show their dogs ABKC.
> 
> I've had an apbt that didn't fit the standard very well. So obviously she wouldn't have been winning any shows. What that means is that she's just not breeding worthy. In my opinion anyway because if the dog barely resembles it's breed there is something wrong. It doesn't change the fact that she is APBT. Winning or loosing shows does not make your dog of that breed or not that breed it just means they are not the best looking of that breed.
> 
> So I think it would be the same for bullys. If your bully does not fit the standard set in place then it's still a bully and should be registered as such.


Understood.
I don't think that kennel shows ABKC but some dogs are indeed half bully lines so they can prob be dual registered. But let's say the person has bully lines incorporated into his breeding program, registered with the UKC but the dogs fit more the UKC standard and is able to work ( drive, confirmation,soundness, health tested,and athleticism) would you register UKC or ABKC ?


Sadie said:


> The ABKC needs to have different weight classes because not all bullys are XXL .. They need to make room for the classic style bullies IMO


H3ll yes Georgia. I shy away from ABKC since there isnt enough classes. My dog isn't the heaviest, widest, most extreme. I think he is more clasSic than anything. He's definately more athletic than most I see. Now I'm not saying most dogs are incapable but I find it hard to believe that a dog with serious structural faults can be worked safely. And to add that most kennels I see with any type of bullies that can work are usually dual registered as apbt and ambullies.

I think if the ABKC had stricter standards and stuck to them- more responsible bully owners will make the switch.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Mach0 said:


> I think if the ABKC had stricter standards and stuck to them- more responsible bully owners will make the switch.


I absolutely agree that the ABKC needs to tighten up on their standard, but we must remember they are still a new registry so I hope that over time things will change.


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## Rudy4747

Umm Okay this is kind of my opinion, I think since the Am bully and the ABKC are the so young that if any dogs that have been bred of older lines. Such as old York or RE or Gaff those lines that have been around but considered now bully line can still be in the lineage of a APBT ukc registered. the Kennel above shows her dog in ADBA shows. I don't know her personally but met her at a show in Colorado. My boy Dooney and my girl Zoey both have old RE from back before the bully movement. And I do not consider them Bully nor will try to produce Bully out of them. The line go back before there was bullies or the registries. Fo instance there are Jeep dogs in peds bred straight to Re dogs. i know that game dog people would have nothing of it but that does not mean none had tried this. I feel like it is just in what direction the blood was used. And hoe it is being used now. I know some will say probably not agree, but does what i am saying make any since?


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## aimee235

Mach0 said:


> Understood.
> I don't think that kennel shows ABKC but some dogs are indeed half bully lines so they can prob be dual registered. But let's say the person has bully lines incorporated into his breeding program, registered with the UKC but the dogs fit more the UKC standard and is able to work ( drive, confirmation,soundness, health tested,and athleticism) would you register UKC or ABKC ?


It depends. If the lineage was questionable on the bully side. Like obvious mixes. My advice would be to ABKC register it. If it was from old RE lines where they weren't really bullys I'd say UKC, because the dogs were just used as the foundation for another breed. They were not bullys to begin with. I don't see the point of breeding now a days bullys with anything other then bullys though. The breed cannot reproduce consistently if mixes keep being added in. As well as since they are separate breeds I think it would technically be a mix bred. "Bully line" could be interpreted differently by people.


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## Mach0

Rudy4747 said:


> Umm Okay this is kind of my opinion, I think since the Am bully and the ABKC are the so young that if any dogs that have been bred of older lines. Such as old York or RE or Gaff those lines that have been around but considered now bully line can still be in the lineage of a APBT ukc registered. the Kennel above shows her dog in ADBA shows. I don't know her personally but met her at a show in Colorado. My boy Dooney and my girl Zoey both have old RE from back before the bully movement. And I do not consider them Bully nor will try to produce Bully out of them. The line go back before there was bullies or the registries. Fo instance there are Jeep dogs in peds bred straight to Re dogs. i know that game dog people would have nothing of it but that does not mean none had tried this. I feel like it is just in what direction the blood was used. And hoe it is being used now. I know some will say probably not agree, but does what i am saying make any since?


Good points Rudy


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## Mach0

aimee235 said:


> It depends. If the lineage was questionable on the bully side. Like obvious mixes. My advice would be to ABKC register it. If it was from old RE lines where they weren't really bullys I'd say UKC, because the dogs were just used as the foundation for another breed. They were not bullys to begin with. I don't see the point of breeding now a days bullys with anything other then bullys though. The breed cannot reproduce consistently if mixes keep being added in. As well as since they are separate breeds I think it would technically be a mix bred. "Bully line" could be interpreted differently by people.


Gotcha and it makes perfect sense to me. I saw someone post that their dogs are UKC /ABKC registered but only show UKC since they conform to that standard. I think that's probably pretty common right now.


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## Rudy4747

ABKC has a classic class hat would probably fit the UKC type bully. And I was talking about how some people were mixing them for they were a different breed.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Rudy4747 said:


> ABKC has a classic class hat would probably fit the UKC type bully. And I was talking about how some people were mixing them for they were a different breed.


People mixing bullies and English bulldogs and Mastiffs etc? It definitely happens. I don't agree with it at all. I like to go on Bullypedia and pull some of the dogs that are hyped on the EE board and do a 9 gen ped and it is crazy to look at their Am Staff ancestors from 1956 and wonder how in the world they got the final product. Definite paper hanging....


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## American_Pit13

There was no need to post a picture of someones dog just to bash it. Keep this thread away from negativity toward bullies of any class..


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## Mach0

American_Pit13 said:


> There was no need to post a picture of someones dog just to bash it. Keep this thread away from negativity toward bullies of any class..


Sorry - 
I actually like bullies- just clean ones.


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## Black Label Romo

I dunno which dog your lookin at bro..but he looks plenty bully enough for me...lol...and I think he could do good in the ABKC...i'd like to see more pictures hes a great lookin dog...
As far as your friend who refuses to register with ABKC because he hates fat dogs...he should goto some shows and see whats out there...the problem is most people think bully and the only class they picture is the extreme class...lil short super blown out bullies...which is only 1 class of the breed...plenty of well put together bullies out there reppin the classic and standard...even the xl class...
Maybe if he were to goto some shows and show his awesome dog he could benefit the breed by showing people how good these dogs can look when worked a bit and actually help people...dunno jus an idea....


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## davidfitness83

that's one of the cleanest Bullies I have seen. IF we go by the American BUlly ingridient theory you should do fine


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## Mach0

Lone Star said:


> I dunno which dog your lookin at bro..but he looks plenty bully enough for me...lol...and I think he could do good in the ABKC...i'd like to see more pictures hes a great lookin dog...
> As far as your friend who refuses to register with ABKC because he hates fat dogs...he should goto some shows and see whats out there...the problem is most people think bully and the only class they picture is the extreme class...lil short super blown out bullies...which is only 1 class of the breed...plenty of well put together bullies out there reppin the classic and standard...even the xl class...
> Maybe if he were to goto some shows and show his awesome dog he could benefit the breed by showing people how good these dogs can look when worked a bit and actually help people...dunno jus an idea....


It's definately an idea- I've never been to one- but from some of the forums I've traveled thru- I haven't seen alot of good examples- now I'm not bashing or saying there isn't. I'm sure there is. Alot of pics I see are some pretty dogs but it's kinda like the UKC/AKC differences looks wise. From pics I have seen posted, there wasnt many defined dogs. Again, we are just talking about pics.
I know his actually work and show. His biggest bully is an xl @ 70 lbs
Smallest is a pocket size at 40 lbs. The main class I like is standard or classic. One of my favorite bullies is world class k9's caesar. 


davidfitness83 said:


> that's one of the cleanest Bullies I have seen. IF we go by the American BUlly ingridient theory you should do fine


Yea his are nice. I'm going to have a chat with him. Ill try to convince him to register ABKC.


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## pitbullmamanatl

This is Blackout and he is shown in the extreme class; however, he is a very clean, in my opinion. He won first place and best male extreme at the Nationals in November. 
























He isn't overdone at all, but he does fit ABKC standard.
This is Dirty Diana and she is another example of a clean bully. She is considered pocket and has won 1st and 2nd at several shows; she is on her way to becoming an ABKC champ. Both her and Blackout are dual registered UKC/ABKC.


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## LadyRampage

Ok, Against the Wind Kennels... She does not show ABKC, not that I've ever heard or seen and I've been a member of her board for almost 2 years now. She does do UKC, and ADBA showing, and weight pull with ALL of her dogs. She show and pull titles on most, and working on the others to finish. She does agility as well. Pretty nice lady to talk with.

As for your boy, he's gorgeous, I actually think he may shock you at a ABKC show and do outstanding!!


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## Mach0

pitbullmamanatl said:


> This is Blackout and he is shown in the extreme class; however, he is a very clean, in my opinion. He won first place and best male extreme at the Nationals in November.
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> He isn't overdone at all, but he does fit ABKC standard.
> This is Dirty Diana and she is another example of a clean bully. She is considered pocket and has won 1st and 2nd at several shows; she is on her way to becoming an ABKC champ. Both her and Blackout are dual registered UKC/ABKC.
> 
> He's a nice dog
> EDIT: I will post a picture of DD that doesn't have the kennel name on it. Putting Brayden to bed so I'll do it after that





LadyRampage said:


> Ok, Against the Wind Kennels... She does not show ABKC, not that I've ever heard or seen and I've been a member of her board for almost 2 years now. She does do UKC, and ADBA showing, and weight pull with ALL of her dogs. She show and pull titles on most, and working on the others to finish. She does agility as well. Pretty nice lady to talk with.
> 
> As for your boy, he's gorgeous, I actually think he may shock you at a ABKC show and do outstanding!!


Thank you- I will check it out  just gotta see what events are in the tri state


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## pitbullmamanatl

Mach0 said:


> Thank you- I will check it out  just gotta see what events are in the tri state


I'll email you a list of ABKC shows in your area. Connecticut right?


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## Black Label Romo

WWW.BULLYSHOWS.COM


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## Mach0

pitbullmamanatl said:


> I'll email you a list of ABKC shows in your area. Connecticut right?


Yes 



Lone Star said:


> www.bullyshows.com


Thank you for the site


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## pitbullmamanatl

I don't see any shows in Connecticut, Freddie; however, there is an upcoming show in PA.


*Exquisite Bully Affair*
Saturday, February 19, 2011
Carlisle Expo Center
100 k St
Carlisle, Pa 17013
There is also one in NJ.


*March Bully Madness*
Saturday, March 12, 2011

735 Rt 40
Woodstown, NJ 08098


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## MY MIKADO

I don't know much about Bullies as I am still learning but I thought that the Bully shows had 4 different class that you could show your dogs in. I think that the reason you see so many pictures of the extreme bullies is that what alot of people like. 

I would go to a few shows and see first hand what is out there. I know I want to get to a show as I want a classic bully. 

As far as where to register them I guess I would have to say it depends on where you live. I live in MN and I have not heard of any Am.Bully shows in my area so if I get a bully and can duel register him then I will so I partake in the UKC shows around here.


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## Mach0

pitbullmamanatl said:


> I don't see any shows in Connecticut, Freddie; however, there is an upcoming show in PA.
> 
> 
> *Exquisite Bully Affair*
> Saturday, February 19, 2011
> Carlisle Expo Center
> 100 k St
> Carlisle, Pa 17013
> There is also one in NJ.
> 
> 
> *March Bully Madness*
> Saturday, March 12, 2011
> 
> 735 Rt 40
> Woodstown, NJ 08098


Thank you 
Lets see- I might just pay a visit. Thank you 


MY MIKADO said:


> I don't know much about Bullies as I am still learning but I thought that the Bully shows had 4 different class that you could show your dogs in. I think that the reason you see so many pictures of the extreme bullies is that what alot of people like.
> 
> I would go to a few shows and see first hand what is out there. I know I want to get to a show as I want a classic bully.
> 
> As far as where to register them I guess I would have to say it depends on where you live. I live in MN and I have not heard of any Am.Bully shows in my area so if I get a bully and can duel register him then I will so I partake in the UKC shows around here.


I think there is standard, pocket, xl, and extreme.


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