# I'll Stay Home, A Story of Discrimination



## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

Hey everyone. Thought I'd share my first experience with breed discrimination, so here it is.

Today, Argos and I went over to a friend's house, a bunch of us put some meat on the grill, had some beers, and had a good time with our dogs in the backyard. There were three dogs there including Argos, Roxy (a bull mastiff, 2 yrs), and Mindy (basset hound/shepherd mix 1.5 yrs). It's not what you think, everyone had a great time. Argos has been asleep with a chew toy in his mouth for about 4 hours now, lucky me! 

Problem is, there should have been a fourth dog, Kizzy (a dachshund). Only, when her owner (a close friend of mine for many years now) found out that I had recently gotten an APBT ("pit bull" to him), he began to lecture about how "they're known to snap," and all the other useless garbage that spews from the mouths of the ignorant.* Though he didn't come out and say it, the point was, if MY dog was there, then he wasn't coming, because he was scared to bring HIS dog, his dog is afraid to be alone, and the dog sitter will be at the party. All this happened the night before the party, and he said he would have to ask his girlfriend if she wanted to go. Needless to say, they didn't show.

As a side note, as I write this I consider how much Kizzy's owner babies her, its probably better off that they wont be together, as I am sure their playing would scare her OWNER more than hurt HER...Which would make him hate my dog even more. I've been friends with this guy for almost a decade, and suddenly I'm never going to see him again because he's afraid of a 14 week old dog.

I know at least 99% of you have gone through issues like this. Strangers can think what they want, but how do you show your friends that your puppy isn't going to turn into The Incredible Hulk and rip their face off when they wont even give him a chance?


*- Though I do consider the individual in question to be a close friend, that does not negate his ignorance in this situation.


----------



## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

It's not ignorance, it's a person who loves their dog. Look at it from their point of view, they have a very small and vulnerable dog that means a lot to them. You are looking to bring an unknown dog who belongs to a breed known to be dog aggressive. An apbt can be fine with other dogs for years and one day they just decide not to tolerate them anymore, some are DA from puppyhood. This person was just worried about their pet, and didn't have an option available to leave the dog home, I wouldn't view it as a big deal. Yes, your puppy probably would not have hurt the little dog, but could they have had a good time if they were even a little worried?


----------



## Wingman (Oct 21, 2009)

It happens! Having this breed means you're going to get a lot of greif from a lot of people. It's just how it works. With your friend I would suggest asking him to come over and meet your pup, let him get to know your dog and he may come around and realize that the APBT isn't a vicious beast like it's played out to be.

This reminds me of when I bring my dog to my nieces softball games. I'll have her with me on leash, and I'll set off to the side with my dog in the grass. Well whenever I have my dog with me, no one comes around me. They'll all just stay away. Then the very next day I went to the game and sat in the same spot, but this time I had no dog, and wouldn't ya know it people were walking all around me and what not. It's just the breed. The media has made people fear it, even if they don't do it consciously. Sucks, but I think my dog is well worth the grief I get for her! 

Good luck with your friend!


----------



## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

I'd have to agree with FloorCandy here. Your friend has a valid concern for his dog. While we all think our dogs are gentle and loving (and for the most part, they are), they are also descended from fighting dogs and all have the potential for dog aggression. Your dog may never start a fight but it will probably finish it.


----------



## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

Okay, so you guys do have a point, thanks for the new perspective, FloorCandy.
It just bothers me that, after as long as we've known one another, he doesn't trust me to keep my dog on a leash for the sake of his company.
And Wingman, sound advice, I'll have to get him over here sometime. He may never let the dogs meet but at least we can still hang out.


----------



## megz (Jul 25, 2008)

your friend seems to be like many who only know about the apbt breed through the headlines. it happens, my mother and my sister were the same way until they met our dog(s). now they are the first to send me an e-mail about a good pit in the news, and continually tell me how they told thier friends about how the breed is misunderstood.
the problem i see here is that your "friend" did not trust you, just because of the breed of dog you owned. might be time to have a talk with your friend, explain to them that it shouldn't matter what type of dog you own, they should trust you, as they are your friend, and you would never put thier furry child in danger.


----------



## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

I would have done the same. Pit bullsdo not belong running free with other dogs, as far as they just snap comment, well yeah they pretty much can I prefer to call it turning on and yes your I love all dogs pit bull can decide to turn on at any time. Good call on the other owners part.


----------



## megz (Jul 25, 2008)

gamer said:


> I would have done the same. Pit bullsdo not belong running free with other dogs, as far as they just snap comment, well yeah they pretty much can I prefer to call it turning on and yes your I love all dogs pit bull can decide to turn on at any time. Good call on the other owners part.


Wow...
so should i call my father in law and tell him that he was dumb for letting his JRT and Beagle run and play with my dog when they came to visit?? 
oh, maybe i should tell them to never bring thier dogs back, because my dog could "decide to turn on" at any time?? 
maybe you should tell the people who let thier puppies play with my dogs while camping this same thing. that way my dogs never get sociallized... because of ignorance...


----------



## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

megz said:


> Wow...
> so should i call my father in law and tell him that he was dumb for letting his JRT and Beagle run and play with my dog when they came to visit??
> oh, maybe i should tell them to never bring thier dogs back, because my dog could "decide to turn on" at any time??
> maybe you should tell the people who let thier puppies play with my dogs while camping this same thing. that way my dogs never get sociallized... because of ignorance...


Its not ignorance its being aware of what can be with these dogs. If your family wants to come around then that is thier choice, if your dog gets a hold of one of them then atleast they are family. Ignorance is people who dont realize that any pit bull can decide to attack another dog at any time. You cant call it discrimination when the person has a valid point. Now if he had said the guy would not bring his kids over then I would have had a good laugh since these dogs are wonderful with kids and people. We all do what we see is right with our own personal dogs some prefer not to put our dogs in that situation while others think it is fine. No need to get so defensive.

Never trust a Pit Bull not to fight I always say.


----------



## JayHawk (Apr 4, 2010)

You stated that this was your first expirence with "breed discimination" so I assume that you are new to the breed and yes at 14wks "DA" may not be an issue it may or may not be an issue in the future but remember that accidents can/do happen and the headline in the papper isnt going to be about the dachshund that started a fight but another story about the dangerous pit bull and thus more fuel for "breed discimination" and bsl


----------



## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

These dogs can and most likely will be DA, the turn on or snap gamer was referring to is not against humans as others think. Your friend i think was OK by staying home, she wanted her dog to be safe. I have told MY friends I don't want our dogs playing because you never know, they are fine with that. 

I will only let my dog meet dogs from very good friends and even then I am picky. I'm all for letting her play with dogs but i always supervise. 

Just supervise your dog when it is with other dogs, you never know what might happen around other animals. My dog has never had an issue with other dogs, but still it's in the genes.


----------



## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

After learning bite inhibition from other puppies it is not really necessary to let your dog play with other dogs. You can also teach bite inhibition yourself. It can also be dangerous because yes the dog could "turn on" and become dog aggressive. You can continue socializing your dog by allowing them to walk by other dogs. As well as go to public places where there are lots of sights, sounds, and different people and animals.

Playing with strange dogs is kinda like expecting two different wolf packs to just meet up with each other and have a puppy play date. lol. If two wolfs saw each other in the wild and they were not from the same pack they would start a fight not stop and play. So it seems silly to expect your dog to not act the same way. As the leader of the pack you are supposed to keep strangers away. You shouldn't feel sorry for your dog because it doesn't get to play with other dogs. Just like people don't feel sorry for a sheepdog who is raised with sheep so it views them as a pack and protects them like it would a normal canine pack.

Dogs are not kids and lots of behavioral problems are created by treating them like they are. They are domesticated wolves and should be treated as such.


----------



## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

sound advice, thanks everyone.

@ jayhawk: this is my first pit, so yes i am pretty new to the breed. any familiarity i have with the breed comes from a short two years enjoying my neighbor's dog.

I am rather confused though, because everything (everything) i have read previous to some of the responses to this post was to let the puppy play to socialize it. im not talking letting the dog run the neighborhood, but i have been letting my pup play with my friends' dogs (either on leash or in a small area) just about every day since ive gotten him. are you guys saying that i should just start leaving him home? or bringing him places and forcefully keeping him quarantined in an area by himself while the other dogs play?


----------



## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

Aczdreign said:


> sound advice, thanks everyone.
> 
> @ jayhawk: this is my first pit, so yes i am pretty new to the breed. any familiarity i have with the breed comes from a short two years enjoying my neighbor's dog.
> 
> I am rather confused though, because everything (everything) i have read previous to some of the responses to this post was to let the puppy play to socialize it. im not talking letting the dog run the neighborhood, but i have been letting my pup play with my friends' dogs (either on leash or in a small area) just about every day since ive gotten him. are you guys saying that i should just start leaving him home? or bringing him places and forcefully keeping him quarantined in an area by himself while the other dogs play?


You can absolutely allow your pup to play with other friendly dogs in a supervised setting. Stay close at hand, keep a close eye on them, never leave them unsupervised, etc. Just remember that these dogs are known to be DA so you have to stay on your toes, and don't feel too bad if some people don't want to allow their dogs to interact with yours. It is completely understandable to want to socialize your dog in a safe setting, like a play date in a fenced, private yard, but many people may find this to be a risk they aren't willing to take with their dog. Remember that small breed dogs can be easily injured just by friendly play with a large clumsy pup, and although your dog might just be 13 weeks or so, it can still accidentally harm a delicate dog like a chi, pom, doxie etc.


----------



## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

alright, that makes more sense, makes me a little more comfortable, thanks a lot FloorCandy.
I knew what I was getting myself into when i got my puppy, and I am always around to supervise his play, whether he is alone or with other animals. After reading through the posts and whatnot, I'm not really bothered anymore, you guys are absolutely right, it was probably for the best.


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Here is my recent stopry. My BFF (since 2nd grade) in the past has said she is not comfortable with Gargamel playing with her dogs, her puggle has no manners and starts trouble. EVERYTHING and EVERYONE get his drama, not controlled. She fears he will pick a fight with Mel and of course Mel will win so she feels why risk it she says. Fair enough, I am not gonna argue with someone or try to change their opinions even if it is my BEST friend who knows its the owners and not the dogs, I am STILL willing to ignore it. This weekend she has a BBQ and 4 or our friends brought their dogs. That means there were her 2 plus 4, including a Jack Russell terrier and Pit Bull/Lab mix. Of course they were all allowed to play together all off leash, and her dog and the jack Russell caused the most issues running around, of course its the little buggers. My feelings were hurt. Really upset and was bumming me out ruining my time, I had rushed home from work, walked Mel, left him home all alone and was so sad at the fun he could be having with all these other pups. Really, the 120lbs Pit/Lab mix was allowed to go, but my 57lb perfectly behaved pup is NOT? I was so hurt I said something to her. She told me well Amy, you ASKED me if you could bring him over, none of them asked if it was OK. It was then I realize things are not what they seem all the time, that if she had her choice her BBQ would have been puppy free, and its her dog she is afraid of not mine. But in the eyes of everyone, it would be MY dogs fault and THAT is what she is trying to avoid. Anyway, for all the people who cross the street when I walk by, I add a bandanna and now people tend to not cross or judge as harsh. It sucks but keep your head up and keep changing peoples minds one at a time


----------



## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

I just wanted to add, it seems like the responses were a little "brutally honest" if you get what I mean? I mean all true but don't get worked up and confine your dog in a room forever. 

Socialization as a pup is a must, specially in this breed if you want a decent temperament with other dogs, it doesn't guarantee it will always play nice and you should always take precautions. Many members let the dogs play with others, many members have multiple dogs that are great, but some are not!

If your friend thinks your new dog is evil and will attack her then I think you should try to educate, but don't feel bad if she didn't let the dog play. If I saw you in the street and didn't know you at all I would not let my dog meet yours, it's not personal it's just I want to avoid problems.


----------



## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

ames said:


> Here is my recent stopry. My BFF (since 2nd grade) in the past has said she is not comfortable with Gargamel playing with her dogs, her puggle has no manners and starts trouble. EVERYTHING and EVERYONE get his drama, not controlled. She fears he will pick a fight with Mel and of course Mel will win so she feels why risk it she says. Fair enough, I am not gonna argue with someone or try to change their opinions even if it is my BEST friend who knows its the owners and not the dogs, I am STILL willing to ignore it. This weekend she has a BBQ and 4 or our friends brought their dogs. That means there were her 2 plus 4, including a Jack Russell terrier and Pit Bull/Lab mix. Of course they were all allowed to play together all off leash, and her dog and the jack Russell caused the most issues running around, of course its the little buggers. My feelings were hurt. Really upset and was bumming me out ruining my time, I had rushed home from work, walked Mel, left him home all alone and was so sad at the fun he could be having with all these other pups. Really, the 120lbs Pit/Lab mix was allowed to go, but my 57lb perfectly behaved pup is NOT? I was so hurt I said something to her. She told me well Amy, you ASKED me if you could bring him over, none of them asked if it was OK. It was then I realize things are not what they seem all the time, that if she had her choice her BBQ would have been puppy free, and its her dog she is afraid of not mine. But in the eyes of everyone, it would be MY dogs fault and THAT is what she is trying to avoid. Anyway, for all the people who cross the street when I walk by, I add a bandanna and now people tend to not cross or judge as harsh. It sucks but keep your head up and keep changing peoples minds one at a time


:clap::goodpost:

As far as the bandana goes, I haven't had ANYONE judge him on sight yet, he's still got that cute puppy thing going on, lol.
But once he gets bigger I'm definately going to need something for him to enhance the "perfect pet" look. My GF and I are big on Ren Faires, I plan to have something made for him this year. 
Maybe a jester's cap.


----------



## JayHawk (Apr 4, 2010)

By new to the breed I didnt mean your familiarity with the breed just that this was your first expirence with discimination, which happens alot, just the other day between softball games at the park a guy asked if his son could pet preacher i had preacher sit and the boy was petting him til the father asked what breed he was, i answerd and he yanked up his boy and left. And yes after preacher had all his vacs he attended puppy obed class and was socilized with other calm obedient dogs under constant supervision I was just reminding you that it will always (in the media) be the APBT's fault if something does happen


----------



## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

jmejiaa said:


> I just wanted to add, it seems like the responses were a little "brutally honest" if you get what I mean? I mean all true but don't get worked up and confine your dog in a room forever.
> 
> Socialization as a pup is a must, specially in this breed if you want a decent temperament with other dogs, it doesn't guarantee it will always play nice and you should always take precautions. Many members let the dogs play with others, many members have multiple dogs that are great, but some are not!
> 
> If your friend thinks your new dog is evil and will attack her then I think you should try to educate, but don't feel bad if she didn't let the dog play. If I saw you in the street and didn't know you at all I would not let my dog meet yours, it's not personal it's just I want to avoid problems.


Ya, at first I was getting the impression that I should lock my dog up at social gatherings, but I've come to understand the context of the responses. Thus far, I haven't had any DA issues, not so much as a growl. I do trust him to an extent, but I am aware that I need to constantly keep one eye on him.

So many great responses to this thread, keep em coming!


----------



## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

JayHawk said:


> By new to the breed I didnt mean your familiarity with the breed just that this was your first expirence with discimination, which happens alot, just the other day between softball games at the park a guy asked if his son could pet preacher i had preacher sit and the boy was petting him til the father asked what breed he was, i answerd and he yanked up his boy and left. And yes after preacher had all his vacs he attended puppy obed class and was socilized with other calm obedient dogs under constant supervision I was just reminding you that it will always (in the media) be the APBT's fault if something does happen


Man these responses are coming in so fast I can't keep up, lol.
Argos and I are working on obedience at home for now, as classes are a bit expensive for my situation at the moment, and he is doing very well. I do socialize him every day, whether it's a walk through the neighborhood, at the local (people) park, or at a neighbor. And as for the last comment about the media's view, that's definitely something that I try to keep in mind at all times.

It's really amazing how a few words can totally change a person's attitude towards a well-mannered animal.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

megz said:


> Wow...
> so should i call my father in law and tell him that he was dumb for letting his JRT and Beagle run and play with my dog when they came to visit??
> oh, maybe i should tell them to never bring thier dogs back, because my dog could "decide to turn on" at any time??
> maybe you should tell the people who let thier puppies play with my dogs while camping this same thing. that way my dogs never get sociallized... because of ignorance...


This is a fantastic idea.

To the OP, the discrimination will increase dramatically at about 6 months in age. It never stops bugging you, but you do learn to take it as a grain of salt. I cannot tell you how fast everyone clears out of the vets office when they see one of my dogs walk through the door. Well behaved or not we're still labeled as the latest headline. 

After so many years into these dogs, I am finally able to actually chuckle at these people to their faces.


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I love that Indigo Bully, and I hate being crowded myself inside so thats probably doing you both a favor, lol!! I love messing with people myself in a good natured way. In all seriousness, in pet stores or walks or when people come by my house and cross the street, or BLATANTLY show discust (not fear, I am not trying to scare people genuine fear of ALL dogs trumps all comments by me) but the ones I am talking about who I can see in their eyes their thoughts and noses turn immediately up in the air. I look people in the eye and say very loudly so they hear me and know I am "serious" "ooo yeah, thank you for moving away, my friend has a dog that's does not get along with others so thank you for being responsible and keeping him away from my well behaved dog. Must stink you cant take him places, huh?". The look on their faces usually goes from confusion, to anger, and then MOST laugh and realize how they looked and some have stopped and chatted with us and let butts sniff. I am glad my pup changes minds and has all you representing as well.


----------



## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

ames said:


> I love that Indigo Bully, and I hate being crowded myself inside so thats probably doing you both a favor, lol!! I love messing with people myself in a good natured way. In all seriousness, in pet stores or walks or when people come by my house and cross the street, or BLATANTLY show discust (not fear, I am not trying to scare people genuine fear of ALL dogs trumps all comments by me) but the ones I am talking about who I can see in their eyes their thoughts and noses turn immediately up in the air. I look people in the eye and say very loudly so they hear me and know I am "serious" "ooo yeah, thank you for moving away, my friend has a dog that's does not get along with others so thank you for being responsible and keeping him away from my well behaved dog. Must stink you cant take him places, huh?". The look on their faces usually goes from confusion, to anger, and then MOST laugh and realize how they looked and some have stopped and chatted with us and let butts sniff. I am glad my pup changes minds and has all you representing as well.


I always move to the other side when I see another dog coming. I don't understand why people want there dogs to meet and greet every other dog on walks, as humans we don't even do that.


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Well, its not about making room. We don't have to stop and meet and greet at all. My dog is behaved so I don't have to worry when we walk by things, luckily. I am sure you don't give the look to the owner I am referring too when you cross the street. You probably just cross. There is a difference on the ones I tend to joke with. Dogs should be able to be on the same sidewalk, kinda like people can walk down the same sidewalk, given the size of the sidewalk anyway...


----------



## Mrskocurek (Apr 8, 2010)

when i take my babies to pets mart or the vet they always get a good response from people thank god b/c if anyone shot one of my babies a dirty look i would probablly slap them. My neighbor was talking trash about my dogs and i called her out infront of the whole neighborhood during a block party


----------



## bluefamily (Aug 8, 2007)

or you could just do what we do and allow others to stay away. Other folks usually end up stirring up garbage anyway!. We are perfectly happy living with our dogs ("that scare the s&^% out of people") and only our REAL friends cowboy up and come over. My hubby says "other folks bring over their drama and we don't need it! teeeheeee My hubby isn't too interested in being very social anyway so we don't miss it.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 2, 2012)

*Pitbulls are misunderstood so you can't accept everyone's advice*

Most people who know dogs well, like at the dog park, know that pitbulls are generally great dogs. I have never bothered to correct other people. What you need to do is let your friends know that your friend is wrong, but he has a right to exclude himself if he wants. After all, he could have come without his dog if he had good intentions. Dogs don't need sitters. If they can't be left alone they can be put in kennels. He is what I call a pit bully. He isn't just scared, he is angry. He has an agenda which is to punish you for not agreeing with him. If you think he's the sort of person who can admit he's wrong, just be patient and don't try to convince him. Just say you disagree and you hope he gets over his misconceptions. Meanwhile, welcome to the world of great people with great dogs. Although you have had a few ignorant people on this blog tell you what they wrongly believe, you don't have to respond to their ignorance. Just be ready to have people fawn over your dog, because there are a LOT of pitbull lovers out there. There have been many dog breeds that have gone through this in the past, and some day you'll look back on this phase and laugh (maybe when you're about 90). I applaud you for following your heart. Your gut is telling you your dog is good and wants to do good things. You are absolutely right. Please spend $100 at PetSmart or any place you like to go to basic training once a week. Practice a little bit with your dog every day. Make sure you get him to the point where he comes to you EVERY TIME you call him. Use meaty treats for training (they have them next to the training area at petsmart) and only train him briefly each time so you aren't setting him up for failure. You don't have to be tough when he is being trained. Also, go online on youtube and google dog training because there are some fantastic people showing you step by step how to train a dog for free! Make sure you're always teaching him something new and you will have the best dog of anyone you know. You are going to meet a lot of great people and then the few people who give you a hard time won't bother you. Don't buy that they are just genetically going to turn into a monster one day. If you experience anyone being negative to you around him, be ready to take out your phone and start recording them. Don't let someone tell you you can't bring your dog to the park. If someone tries to do that, let them know that you'll be glad to call the police department to send someone over to explain to them that they can't do that. More than anything else, be an example and spread the good word. Check out some of the beautiful art by Dean Russo of pit bulls. If you have a facebook account post pictures and share posts that talk about how great they are. Be an advocate and don't support the falsehoods. Even if you have an experience with your dog and it gets a little rough, it's not going to be with a little dog. My pitbull is gentler with little dogs than big dogs and the big dogs love to play rough too. Most important of all remember 95% of behavioral issues with any dog is not getting enough exercise. So take him to the dog park daily and make sure he runs around a lot. All dogs have a risk factor, but the worst dogs are usually the little ones. I could tell you why (it's the owners fault, not the dogs) but that's a whole other story. Best wishes and stop worrying. You sound like an excellent owner and you have just increased your family by one. It's your friend's problem, not yours. p.s. Even if you have some problems with your dog, he won't go crazy one day and kill your friends dog. When dogs want to put another dog in it's place they will pin them down and the other dog will go on his back to be subordinate. If you go to the dog park you'll see it all the time and start to understand that dogs have a whole different socialization that we do so what scares us is often just about the social order to them.


----------



## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

First thing, this thread is two years old and the people you are responding to are mostly inactive on the forum anymore. Second, I didn't even attempt to read your entire post considering you really need to learn to use a little thing called a paragraph break. 

Other than that, if you'd care to be an active member of the forum, please create an introduction thread in the intro section and welcome to the forum.


----------

