# Here's a question...



## GSDBulldog (Dec 22, 2006)

In a recent thread, it was stated that while $7,000 is an outrageous price to pay for a dog, one could justify spending $2,500 (Especially on a direct Gotti son!). Here is my question,

Why shovel out $2,500 on a puppy, from any breeding/kennel/bloodline/etc? Why play Russian Roulette with your money, regardless of the integrity of the breeder involved? Anyone who has been involved with dogs for a good amount of time will tell you that puppies are a crapshoot, even with the "best" pedigrees. 

And, that brings me to yet another question. I'm just full of it today  

What is it about "direct Gotti sons" (And similar statements) that costs so damn much? Rarely do you see working and/or show titles on the sire & dam, and you hardly ever see any effort put into screening for possible health issues. Are you simply cashing out for a "big name" pedigree?

And no, this is not a "bash" on any paticular breeder/kennel/bloodline/etc. This is something I've noticed across the board, from sons of Juan Gotti to daughters of Machobuck.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

*A matter of priorites...*

Quality and integrity mean nothing to some people. Only the label. As if the "pit bull" label doesn't get them enough shock value they want to attach some hard-ass kennel name for the added effect. Disgusting if you ask me. Kids these days will spend a rediculous amount of money on a dog with a tough sounding name. Walking around with half-breed curs that they call "pit bulls". I just wish they would move on to the next "must have" status symbol and leave our breed alone. :stick:


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## ashbash91 (Aug 22, 2007)

Shot it doesn't really matter what you pay on a dog.... My grandmother bought 2 yorkies for 2,500 each and she doesn't do anything w/ them! they are just pets!... if you are willing to pay the money then you will pay it! A lot of people spend that kind of money on Juan Gotti offsprings because that is their favorite dog! and some are in the game for the wrong reason and pay that much thinking a gotti son will make you a lot more then you paid for him....


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Who knows. I can't see paying that much for anything other than a car, house, land, or education. 

It's kind of the same thing with purses. People are willing to pay well over a thousand for Coach or Prada just to throw a bunch of crap in it.

Some people are brand wh**es, whether it be clothes, purses, shoes, or dogs.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I can imagin paying that kind of money for a dog when I know that there are thoundsands in pounds and that they are put to sleep as fast as the new ones come in. I guess whe you are rich values fly out the door. I don't know I have never had money to throw around I have never paid $2,500 for even a car.


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## Patch O' Pits (Aug 3, 2007)

It has to do honestly with a lot of factors. There are just too mnay to list sadly but here are a few main ones IMO

-people not bothering to really do their homework and know what they are getting 

- those who think a pedigree makes the dog and look at nothing else

-on top of others who think paying more automatically means the dog is better

- some don't realize that there are many good breeders with high quality dogs that do not charge out the butt hole for their pups and would rather see them find great homes than make tons of $$$ on them

It comes down to as long as people are willing to pay big cash for the pups there are those who will continue to take advantage of that sadly.

This is not about any particular line or even any particular breed just a general statement about the dog breeding world. I find it sad though that some are so big on certain unproven dogs and lines that have no health testing, no titles aren't anywhere near the standard, & have absolutely nothing that makes them worth squat in my eyes.


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## Figgy1682 (Aug 29, 2007)

to a extent im a firm beliver in " you get what you pay for" but i hear what ever one is saying. to me i dont think i can buy a dog for more then 1500 but thats me. to get a dog from juan gotti is like you think your getting a reproduction of juan gotti, which to me i havent seen a look a like that came from him but hey there might be one. to me its just a name and people will always go for a name brand which im guilty of when it comes to nike air force ones( i own over 30 pairs from over the years ) so you cant really get mad. this is why there are forums like this and i suggest all of the members who know anything should suggest a kennel to people and why they say its better then the next kennel. i belive in adopting a dog from the pound to but the fact is almost no one want someone elses problems, atleast thats what i think peole think cause they dont have the time to train the dog properly. this is why i ask so many questions on bloodlines and kennels and gentic problems with the breed so if i do decide to get another puppy i can make a educated guess on my decision, and maybe we should spot light kennels every month on the forum just to show people hey this is a proper breeder who has there stuff together and not to get them buisness. this is just my 2 cents and please take it like a grain of salt.


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## Marine1 (Oct 10, 2007)

*I agree!!! Sorry this is so long, just had to get this off my chest!!!*

If someone works hard for their money, they can spend it on whatever they want. In the case of spending money on a APBT or American Bully, some people want a particular bloodline for certain characteristics such as color, temperament, structure, conformation, etc. Some people also want a certain bloodline, just because it sounds good, and is the hottest bloodline at the time. There is no guarantee that a bloodline will produce a exact replica of its ancestors, but the chance is greater with proper line breeding. Now,you can look at this issue from the standpoint of a buyer, and that of a breeder. If Im a buyer, and I know that I want a APBT, or AB puppy to meet a certain description or characteristic, Im willing to spend a "little" more to get that. From the standpoint of a breeder, if Im trying to improve my yard, then you have to look at the puppy as a investment, since it may affect your future breedings. You just cant get anything, and hope for the best. In this case I could understand someone buying more $ for a dog. Im pretty sure that there are those opposed to paying money for a pitbull, and only promote adoption. I definetly agree with them, to a certain extent. If you dont focus on certain characteristics as previously mentioned, dont want to spend ridiculous prices for a puppy, and just want to own this fine breed, then adoption should be considered. I think adopting just because you are being cheap and/or dont want to invest the time to find a good breeder is wrong. I believe in saving a dogs life is a great thing, but there are just some dogs out there that you cant take a chance on. For those who ignore this fact, and dont press this issue ,are no better than irresponsible breeders. The only people who should be adopting this breed should be those with previous experience with this breed!!! I dont care if you had any other breed, because the pitbull is like no other breed, and requires certain needs that another breed may not need. You have to do your homework, and ask yourself why is this pitbull in the shelter in the first place? Yeah, I know that sometimes someone will have a large litter of puppies, and drop them off at the shelter for adoption. Thats fine!!! There is also the issue of bsl, and the dog being up for adoption for this reason. These are acceptable reasons for adopting a good dog, but if you are honest, then you know that this is not always that case. Many of the pitbulls that are being adopted, eventually are returned because either the owner didnt know what they were getting themselves into, or the dog had issues such as temperament, or behavioral problems that were not present at the time of adoption. You have to realize not every pitbull can be rehabilitated, as sad as that may be. To ignore this is wrong, and instead of helping, is just adding to the problem. To those whom have rescued or continue to rescue, and have never had problems, I applaud you and wish you the best.Although thats not the case for eveyone. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, its just that I sleep better at night knowing that my puppy was bred properly by its breeder, and was raised properly by me, in order to improve its chance of being a good pet. If getting this reassurance means paying a reasonable price instead of adopting, then so be it!!! Keep in mind everyones opinion of "reasonable" is different. Instead of arguing over prices,bloodlines, or is that a APBT or AB, lets focus our efforts on getting rid of BSL, and do things to improve the overall perception of this breed. To those that are naiive and informed, if a dog mauls, attacks, or shows aggression, it is automatically labeled "pitbull" whether or not it is APBT or AB. Let stop focusing on names, and more on ownership. One thing they both have in common,... they both have teeth. LOL!!!!


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## Patch O' Pits (Aug 3, 2007)

> If someone works hard for their money, they can spend it on whatever they want.


Of course they can this is America after all. That wasn't the OP point of the post.



> Some people also want a certain bloodline, just because it sounds good, and is the hottest bloodline at the time.


I personally feel there is good and bad in all bloodlines. Some however has quite a bit more good than bad and visa versa. I don't approve of fad breeding because there are too many dogs in shelters and also because of the BSL the the poor breeding practices. Notice I don't list any bloodlines in my posts...I have no problems with responsible breeding and good breeders.



> If Im a buyer, and I know that I want a APBT, or AB puppy to meet a certain description or characteristic, Im willing to spend a "little" more to get that.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with that...may however don't fully reseach and get caught up in hype of a sales pitch or fad

All I can say is that a fool and his/her money are soon parted. Not directed at you but to anyone looking who has not really looked into what they are getting. Meaning research and know what you are getting when buying anything no matter; what your preference happens to be is not the issue. People who go into things blindly are the ones who get taken in by advertising hype



> I think adopting just because you are being cheap and/or dont want to invest the time to find a good breeder is wrong.


I don't think I ever met anyone who did that. Everyone I know who adopted a dog did it because they wanted to save a good dog and was looking for a pet or flat out wasn't even looking but saved them anyway



> Instead of arguing over prices,bloodlines, or is that a APBT or AB, lets focus our efforts on getting rid of BSL, and do things to improve the overall perception of this breed. To those that are naiive and informed, if a dog mauls, attacks, or shows aggression, it is automatically labeled "pitbull" whether or not it is APBT or AB. Let stop focusing on names, and more on ownership. One thing they both have in common,... they both have teeth. LOL!!!!


Actually a god majority of the people on this forum and others all actively fight BSL. Forums are also used to vent

One of the biggest issues facing the breed besides BSL is the amount of pups and adults alike dumped in shelters. Many put there by irresponsible owners who didn't know what they were getting into and or weren't screened by breeders who just wanted their cash as well as breeders who just dump extra left over pups or older dogs that they are done breeding. Fads go in and out and dogs get dumped daily:hammer:


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Also, adopting is less of a crap shoot than buying a puppy. With a puppy, you never really know what you are getting regardless of how great the parents are or how proven the lineage is. Before a dog in a shelter is put up for adoption, they are screened and tested. So, if you're looking for a pet with sound temperment, you're better off getting a full grown pit from the pound than a puppy from a breeder.

Of course, if you're a ligit breeder, you're not going to go to the pound and just get any dog to breed it. But, the average Joe just looking for a good pet is better off going that route.

I like Figgy's idea about a thread for good kennels. It may help a lot of people who are just surfing the web looking for a pup.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

*High five!*

To everyone out there trying to do the right thing - :clap:


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## showoffpits (Mar 6, 2008)

i think that is way to much to spend on a pit in my opinion. whether it be a direct gotti or razors edge son or what it be.


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## Reggin (Mar 7, 2008)

showoffpits said:


> i think that is way to much to spend on a pit in my opinion. whether it be a direct gotti or razors edge son or what it be.


I second this!! I once seen a liter being sold for 8 grand a piece. The larger the puppy, the more expensive. Males were more expensive than the females because they are larger. What a joke.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

> Why shovel out $2,500 on a puppy, from any breeding/kennel/bloodline/etc? Why play Russian Roulette with your money, regardless of the integrity of the breeder involved? Anyone who has been involved with dogs for a good amount of time will tell you that puppies are a crapshoot, even with the "best" pedigrees.
> 
> And, that brings me to yet another question. I'm just full of it today
> 
> What is it about "direct Gotti sons" (And similar statements) that costs so damn much?


This is a great question and honestly IMO the answer has little to do with dogs. Not always but quite often when someone shovels out $2500-8000 it has less to do with the dog than it does with their, the individuals social status. Why pay $5000 for a dog? Because you now have a $5000 dog or you bought it from someone "Famous". Rarely are you paying $5000 because the dog is "WORTH IT" but because it enables that individual. Its the same as paying outrageous money on a vehicle or a paint job or a boat etc, its more social than actually about the dog. IMO....

Many times these are the people who know the least about the breed.

Scenario: " Hey man what kinda dog you have there? *Its a Gotti dog, straight son!!*... Really, wow, what did you pay for him?.....*Oh about $5G*....Dang must be some dog...... *Yeah man great dog*......"

When we put more enfasis on a dogs value based on $$$ we have missed the picture. $$$ means nothing and many people have learned this the hard way. You can have a litter of dogs, say 7 pups and sell every one of them for $4000 and sell them all quick. Then you have someone pick up a dog for $400 and you put them in a show, or track or whatever and the $400 dog kicks there tail! Or you could have 6 duds and 1 great one in the litter but they all sold for the same price. It just depends on the circle your in and what they value in the dogs. IMO


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## CaSk (Aug 18, 2006)

*The dog's that cost that much like the bully's is only because it is a trend and fashion statement to most people that have that kind of money. Just like with people like paris hilton they get them small lil mutts that fit in pocket purses as a trend. Just like right now you watch tv and every damn celebrity is pregnent because it is a trend and its sad thing. The people that breed these dogs like bully's etc and charge over 2000 i have seen them up to 10k are sad people also. Now if they health tested these dogs for hips,cardiac, etc etc and waited a few years for each dog to see if they don't die of a heart attack and so on. I can manage to pay 2000-3000 max if i had the money and if i wanted to own a bully but i never will. The way i see it bully dogs will be a trend and go over are heads for the fact by the time these dogs get 5 years old our so on. Buyers will probably have to fork over 10k in vet bills due to health because its like buying a car with 500,000 Miles on it. It will fall apart its just a matter of time.*


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

OldFortKennels said:


> This is a great question and honestly IMO the answer has little to do with dogs. Not always but quite often when someone shovels out $2500-8000 it has less to do with the dog than it does with their, the individuals social status. Why pay $5000 for a dog? Because you now have a $5000 dog or you bought it from someone "Famous". Rarely are you paying $5000 because the dog is "WORTH IT" but because it enables that individual. Its the same as paying outrageous money on a vehicle or a paint job or a boat etc, its more social than actually about the dog. IMO....


:goodpost: I agree completely with this. These days it's about bragging rights b/c everyone puts value in terms of how much things cost.....


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

CaSk said:


> * Buyers will probably have to fork over 10k in vet bills due to health because its like buying a car with 500,000 Miles on it. It will fall apart its just a matter of time.*


I think that most will just move on to another poorly bred "bad-ass" dog and throw the unhealthy dog away. I've been watching this trend develop and take over the pit bull name for close to 20 years and it seems to just get worse and worse. I do hope you are right and it blows over. Sad...


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

I have to agree with Oldfort on this one it's not about the dog it's about the people having the bragging rights to pretty much say hey my dog is better then yours because I paid $$$$$ for it.... I can't tell you how may Ambully owners I have met that the first thing they have to say to me when I tell them they have a pretty dog is how much they paid for it it's almost like it makes the person feel better then anyone else because the price they paid for thier dog It really is sad.......... I have never paid for a dog in my life ever and I never will............ Really I think if you want a ambully or pit for that matter go to the shelter it won't take long and I'm sure the shelters will be full of ambully's just like it's full of pits now just give it time......... and really if someone is gonna pay $2500 for a dog most of the time it's not just gonna be a house pet they are probably gonna turn around and breed it too! not all the time but most of the time that's the case.


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## K-O Player (Mar 26, 2008)

*Lol*

To me personally this thread is funny and childish all rolled up into one. Its like asking why do some people prefer a Ford over a Chevy or a Domestic car over an Import or a Ferrari over a Lambo ect. They all do the same thing, they get you from point A to point B. Whether you paid $4000 or $4 for your dog, it doesnt matter you should love it the same because it doesnt know or care what the price was when you got them but it will love you the same no matter what you paid. And to say a dog is a cur because it is not a pure bred is like saying a child that has a black father and a white mother is a cur. Are we still that iggnorant in this world? (thats a retorical question because we all know the honest answer to that). All this boils down to is a dog is a dog just what kinda dog do you want same as a car except in my eyes you ge much more out of dog than you can a car. Now I may have taken some of these statements above in the wrong light so dont go gettin yourself into a fuss about what I said because opinions are like a*sholes, everyones got one.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

I just wanted to point out a couple of facts. One being that if Ford or Chevy used the Ferrari name to sell vehicles, the obvious rediculousness would be easily recognized by the general public and would not destroy the good name that Ferrari has made for itself. With dogs it is a different game all together. A Ferrari is easily distinguished from a Ford or Chevy but the general public does not understand the subtle differences in dog breeds not to mention the glaring contrast between an APBT and a AB. Well, OK maybe that's just an opinion. But I fail to see the relevance of that analogy. Anyway, this is a fact: A cur is not a mix. A cur is a quitter. Now, if a guy with a black father and a white mother refused to scratch, well then he would be a cur. LOL. A dog of mixed blood would be considered a mutt or a mongrel, but not necessarily a cur. 
Alright, that did sound like a fuss.


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

i didn't read everything so if i repeat something im sorry. Ok i have a gotti son and i paid 1,000 for him. What so i do with him... NOTHING! lol i don't breed him he is just my pet and i love him! the reason why i paid that much for him is because i wanted to don't really know why i went to see him in person and i loved him personality and energy! i kind of feel in love with him. Some people spend that much because they want to feel special meaning paying 5,000 because they think if they pay that much the dog is worth that which is not the case! like i said i only paid 1,000 for my boy and he looks better then the dogs that people paid 5,000 for.


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

good post Buz you said it better then I could have!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

thanks. :cheers:


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## CaSk (Aug 18, 2006)

buzhunter said:


> I think that most will just move on to another poorly bred "bad-ass" dog and throw the unhealthy dog away. I've been watching this trend develop and take over the pit bull name for close to 20 years and it seems to just get worse and worse. I do hope you are right and it blows over. Sad...


*Of course they will but as long as it isnt a pitbull imo. Pitbulls and hybrid shit zu's are the trend right now there will be another but like i said once all this dogs get older and owners realize they bought a 5 foot 500 pound man and has hip and heart problems by age 2-5 it will spread word i hope and the trend will go away. Just like Doberman and rots where a big thing but now there not its the pit bull. Just my 2 cents. Now i know these dogs make really good pet's i myself own a part razors edge with about 25 percent game lines and he the best dog. But he isnt a lowrider and extreme like what people are doing.*


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

You make a good point. I actually do have a Rottweiler who is almos 10 years old and it has cost me an arm and a leg to keep her healthy. She has been the most frail and fragile dog I have ever had. A very effective guard dog to say the least but a health nightmare at the same time. My buddy owned her brother from the same litter, and him being unwilling to fork over the $, he was dead before he turned 5. Kinda makes the case doesn't it? LOL It's really sad what some dogs go through when owners don't live up to the responsibility.
:flush:


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## CaSk (Aug 18, 2006)

buzhunter said:


> You make a good point. I actually do have a Rottweiler who is almos 10 years old and it has cost me an arm and a leg to keep her healthy. She has been the most frail and fragile dog I have ever had. A very effective guard dog to say the least but a health nightmare at the same time. My buddy owned her brother from the same litter, and him being unwilling to fork over the $, he was dead before he turned 5. Kinda makes the case doesn't it? LOL It's really sad what some dogs go through when owners don't live up to the responsibility.
> :flush:


Exactly now put the size of a rot in a even smaller size package with no health testing? "NO FURTHER GUEST IONS YOUR HONOR" poor dogs. A bully kennel our "pit bull kennel" that has proven dogs with good test results for at least a couple generations would get my respect. But as stated its the current hustle and will pass. It is sad that there is dogs that will suffer there whole life.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

:goodpost: I hear you loud and clear.


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