# Need quick answers - Odin (GSD), 4 months old - Should I neuter?



## AdrianVall (Dec 16, 2009)

Hey guys,

Ok, here's the deal. I made an appointment to get Odin (GSD pup) neutered tomorrow morning. He is 4 months old, and weighs about 38 lbs. I've been reading that its not good to neuter your GSD until he reaches maturity, at a year old or so. I've read a lot of positive/negative comments on it, and I'm just not sure what I should do. I heard neutering a pup can stun his growth a bit. Is this true?

I have another male dog named Buddy. He just turned a year old and he's been neutered for quite some time now. He got done at 5 months old I believe. Could there be dominance issues if I leave Odin intact for a bit longer? I just need some guidance here guys, and quickly. I have the appointment tomorrow morning, so I just would like to know what you guys think before I bring him in, if I do.

Thanks!


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

I believe in neutering. The reduction in cancer risks may be factual or mythical but I don't take chances. I don't think you have to worry about it affecting growth. BUT IF YOU DO NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE ABOUT THE DECISION, POSTPONE IT, IT DOES NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN TOMORROW!!!!


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Me personally, I would neuter after a year. I don't like to neuter that young. I cannot say whether or not your potential dominance issues would be affected by early neutering or not. That's all fairly subjective, but there are studies which show that early neutering of any breed can be harmful.


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## aarondaync (Jul 17, 2010)

he man im just gonna throw in my two cents but i have no actually proof of this but what i saw so maybe someone else on here might know more..
ok well two of my freinds both got male pits from the same litter the same day.. one got fixed at a young age and the other didnt and i can tell you that that intact male looks alot better imo at a little over a year now.. just over all size and build you can tell looking at the across them room and other than that they have the same markings and look like twins haha

like i said thats just what ive seen from two dogs on the same diet and doing the same thing everyday and from the same litter


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

aaron I have to agree. "most" times if you leave them intact for as long as possible they will develop more hmmm how to say mature traits, like bigger head, jaws, ect in males. 
A GSD does not reach maturity until two years of age.
As far as I'm concerned neutering doesn't make much difference in personality AT ALL in male dogs.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

be right back with some literature for you to read.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete

Early Spay-Neuter Considerations 
for the Canine Athlete
One Veterinarian's Opinion
© 2005 Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP

Those of us with responsibility for the health of canine athletes need to continually read and evaluate new scientific studies to ensure that we are taking the most appropriate care of our performance dogs. This article provides evidence through a number of recent studies to suggest that veterinarians and owners working with canine athletes should revisit the standard protocol in which all dogs that are not intended for breeding are spayed and neutered at or before 6 months of age.
Orthopedic Considerations

A study by Salmeri et al in 1991 found that bitches spayed at 7 weeks grew significantly taller than those spayed at 7 months, who were taller than those not spayed (or presumably spayed after the growth plates had closed).(1) A study of 1444 Golden Retrievers performed in 1998 and 1999 also found bitches and dogs spayed and neutered at less than a year of age were significantly taller than those spayed or neutered at more than a year of age.(2) The sex hormones, by communicating with a number of other growth-related hormones, promote the closure of the growth plates at puberty (3), so the bones of dogs or bitches neutered or spayed before puberty continue to grow. Dogs that have been spayed or neutered well before puberty can frequently be identified by their longer limbs, lighter bone structure, narrow chests and narrow skulls. This abnormal growth frequently results in significant alterations in body proportions and particularly the lengths (and therefore weights) of certain bones relative to others. For example, if the femur has achieved its genetically determined normal length at 8 months when a dog gets spayed or neutered, but the tibia, which normally stops growing at 12 to 14 months of age continues to grow, then an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle. In addition, with the extra growth, the lower leg below the stifle likely becomes heavier (because it is longer), and may cause increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament. In addition, sex hormones are critical for achieving peak bone density.(4) These structural and physiological alterations may be the reason why at least one recent study showed that spayed and neutered dogs had a higher incidence of CCL rupture.(5) Another recent study showed that dogs spayed or neutered before 5 1/2 months had a significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia than those spayed or neutered after 5 1/2 months of age, although it should be noted that in this study there were no standard criteria for the diagnosis of hip dysplasia.(6) Nonetheless, breeders of purebred dogs should be cognizant of these studies and should consider whether or not pups they bred were spayed or neutered when considering breeding decisions.
Cancer Considerations

A retrospective study of cardiac tumors in dogs showed that there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma, one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed bitches than intact bitches and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs as compared to intact males.(7) A study of 3218 dogs demonstrated that dogs that were neutered before a year of age had a significantly increased chance of developing bone cancer.(8) A separate study showed that neutered dogs had a two-fold higher risk of developing bone cancer.(9) Despite the common belief that neutering dogs helps prevent prostate cancer, at least one study suggests that neutering provides no benefit.(10) There certainly is evidence of a slightly increased risk of mammary cancer in female dogs after one heat cycle, and for increased risk with each subsequent heat. While about 30 % of mammary cancers are malignant, as in humans, when caught and surgically removed early the prognosis is very good.(12) Luckily, canine athletes are handled frequently and generally receive prompt veterinary care.
Behavioral Considerations

The study that identified a higher incidence of cranial cruciate ligament rupture in spayed or neutered dogs also identified an increased incidence of sexual behaviors in males and females that were neutered early.(5) Further, the study that identified a higher incidence of hip dysplasia in dogs neutered or spayed before 5 1/2 months also showed that early age gonadectomy was associated with an increased incidence of noise phobias and undesirable sexual behaviors.(6) A recent report of the American Kennel Club Canine Health Foundation reported significantly more behavioral problems in spayed and neutered bitches and dogs. The most commonly observed behavioral problem in spayed females was fearful behavior and the most common problem in males was aggression.(12)
Other Health Considerations

A number of studies have shown that there is an increase in the incidence of female urinary incontinence in dogs spayed early (13), although this finding has not been universal. Certainly there is evidence that ovarian hormones are critical for maintenance of genital tissue structure and contractility.(14, 15) Neutering also has been associated with an increased likelihood of urethral sphincter incontinence in males.(16) This problem is an inconvenience, and not usually life-threatening, but nonetheless one that requires the dog to be medicated for life. A health survey of several thousand Golden Retrievers showed that spayed or neutered dogs were more likely to develop hypothyroidism.(2) This study is consistent with the results of another study in which neutering and spaying was determined to be the most significant gender-associated risk factor for development of hypothyroidism.(17) Infectious diseases were more common in dogs that were spayed or neutered at 24 weeks or less as opposed to those undergoing gonadectomy at more than 24 weeks.(18) Finally, the AKC-CHF report demonstrated a higher incidence of adverse reactions to vaccines in neutered dogs as compared to intact.(12)

I have gathered these studies to show that our practice of routinely spaying or neutering every dog at or before the age of 6 months is not a black-and-white issue. Clearly more studies need to be done to evaluate the effects of prepubertal spaying and neutering, particularly in canine athletes.

Currently, I have significant concerns with spaying or neutering canine athletes before puberty. But of course, there is the pet overpopulation problem. How can we prevent the production of unwanted dogs while still leaving the gonads to produce the hormones that are so important to canine growth and development? One answer would be to perform vasectomies in males and tubal ligation in females, to be followed after maturity by ovariohysterectomy in females to prevent mammary cancer and pyometra. One possible disadvantage is that vasectomy does not prevent some unwanted behaviors associated with males such as marking and humping. On the other hand, females and neutered males frequently participate in these behaviors too. Really, training is the best solution for these issues. Another possible disadvantage is finding a veterinarian who is experienced in performing these procedures. Nonetheless, some do, and if the procedures were in greater demand, more veterinarians would learn them.

I believe it is important that we assess each situation individually. For canine athletes, I currently recommend that dogs and bitches be spayed or neutered after 14 months of age.

References:

Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V.. Gonadectomy in immature dogs: effects on skeletal, physical, and behavioral development. JAVMA 1991;198:1193-1203
http://www.grca.org/healthsurvey.pdf
Grumbach MM. Estrogen, bone, growth and sex: a sea change in conventional wisdom. J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab. 2000;13 Suppl 6:1439-55.
Gilsanz V, Roe TF, Gibbens DT, Schulz EE, Carlson ME, Gonzalez O, Boechat MI. Effect of sex steroids on peak bone density of growing rabbits. Am J Physiol. 1988 Oct;255(4 Pt 1):E416-21.
Slauterbeck JR, Pankratz K, Xu KT, Bozeman SC, Hardy DM. Canine ovariohysterectomy and orchiectomy increases the prevalence of ACL injury. Clin Orthop Relat Res. 2004 Dec;(429):301-5.
Spain CV, Scarlett JM, Houpt KA. Long-term risks and benefits of early-age gonadectomy in dogs. JAVMA 2004;224:380-387.
Ware WA, Hopper DL. Cardiac tumors in dogs: 1982-1995. J Vet Intern Med 1999 Mar-Apr;13(2):95-103
Cooley DM, Beranek BC, Schlittler DL, Glickman NW, Glickman LT, Waters D, Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2002 Nov;11(11):1434-40
Ru G, Terracini B, Glickman LT. Host related risk factors for canine osteosarcoma. Vet J. 1998 Jul;156(1):31-9.
Obradovich J, Walshaw R, Goullaud E. The influence of castration on the development of prostatic carcinoma in the dog. 43 cases (1978-1985). J Vet Intern Med 1987 Oct-Dec;1(4):183-7
http://www.akcchf.org/pdfs/whitepapers/Biennial_National_Parent_Club_Canine_Health_Conference.pdf
Meuten DJ. Tumors in Domestic Animals. 4th Edn. Iowa State Press, Blackwell Publishing Company, Ames, Iowa, p. 575
Stocklin-Gautschi NM, Hassig M, Reichler IM, Hubler M, Arnold S. The relationship of urinary incontinence to early spaying in bitches. J. Reprod. Fertil. Suppl. 57:233-6, 2001
Pessina MA, Hoyt RF Jr, Goldstein I, Traish AM. Differential effects of estradiol, progesterone, and testosterone on vaginal structural integrity. Endocrinology. 2006 Jan;147(1):61-9.
Kim NN, Min K, Pessina MA, Munarriz R, Goldstein I, Traish AM. Effects of ovariectomy and steroid hormones on vaginal smooth muscle contractility. Int J Impot Res. 2004 Feb;16(1):43-50.
Aaron A, Eggleton K, Power C, Holt PE. Urethral sphincter mechanism incompetence in male dogs: a retrospective analysis of 54 cases. Vet Rec. 139:542-6, 1996
Panciera DL. Hypothyroidism in dogs: 66 cases (1987-1992). J. Am. Vet. Med. Assoc., 204:761-7 1994
Howe LM, Slater MR, Boothe HW, Hobson HP, Holcom JL, Spann AC. Long-term outcome of gonadectomy performed at an early age or traditional age in dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2001 Jan 15;218(2):217-21.
This article is available for download in Adobe Acrobat PDF format Early Spay Considerations (pdf).


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

An objective reading of the veterinary medical literature reveals a complex situation with respect to the longterm health risks and benefits associated with spay/neuter in dogs. The evidence shows that spay/neuter correlates with both positive AND adverse health effects in dogs. It also suggests how much we really do not yet understand about this subject.

On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially
immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated
with neutering may exceed the associated health benefits in most cases.

*On the positive side, neutering male dogs*
• eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer
• reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)
*On the negative side, neutering male dogs*
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a
common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.
• increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism
• increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
• triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
• quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
• doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
• increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

For female dogs, the situation is more complex. The number of health benefits associated with spaying may
exceed the associated health problems in some (not all) cases. On balance, whether spaying improves the
odds of overall good health or degrades them probably depends on the age of the female dog and the
relative risk of various diseases in the different breeds.

*On the positive side, spaying female dogs*

• if done before 2.5 years of age, greatly reduces the risk of mammary tumors, the most common
malignant tumors in female dogs
• nearly eliminates the risk of pyometra, which otherwise would affect about 23% of intact female
dogs; pyometra kills about 1% of intact female dogs
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• removes the very small risk (0.5%) from uterine, cervical, and ovarian tumors

*On the negative side, spaying female dogs*
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a
common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis
• increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by
a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism
• increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many
associated health problems
• causes urinary "spay incontinence" in 4-20% of female dogs
• increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4
• increases the risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs
spayed before puberty
• doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract tumors
• increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations
One thing is clear - much of the spay/neuter information that is available to the public is unbalanced and
contains claims that are exaggerated or unsupported by evidence.

Full article here: http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

Hmmm never read that, but I knew that gelding horses real early made them taller, waiting let them have more jaw, and muscle, looked a lot better. More mature looking. I didn't know somebody did a study on it. LOL. My weimaraner is neutered, I didn't do it, I personally don't want my males done that way (dogs). He will still bite, fight, mark territory, the whole nine yards....didn't make a bit of difference. If it did, I don't know it since he was grown and this way when I got him. I often joke that if he could have been worse intact what WOULD he be like?!


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

gamer said:


> An objective reading of the veterinary medical literature reveals a complex situation with respect to the longterm health risks and benefits associated with spay/neuter in dogs. The evidence shows that spay/neuter correlates with both positive AND adverse health effects in dogs. It also suggests how much we really do not yet understand about this subject.
> 
> On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially
> immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost: and something to think about


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Reading all of this, I feel bad that I got Kane and Roxie spay/neutered at 7 months. My vet had talked about letting Roxie go through her first heat and then spaying her, but since neither my bf or I had experience with intact dogs, she suggested we go ahead and spay/neuter them now. :/


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Good stuff Gamer you saved me all the cutting and pasting =)


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Great postings everybody. And as far as my thoughts/opinions, waiting til they are at least 1 year old, close to 1.5 years, and if you're able to make sure they keep it in their pants, lol, 2 years old.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

NesOne said:


> Great postings everybody. And as far as my thoughts/opinions, waiting til they are at least 1 year old, close to 1.5 years, and if you're able to make sure they keep it in their pants, lol, 2 years old.


I agree I think 3 is even better :reindeer:


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

I believe it does make a big difference in the appearance of the male dog if you get them fixed young.
I would say if you are not having issues with the two males (I have had a lot of experience showing IT DOES make a difference unaltered vers altered just as far as dominance not as much DA) then you can hold off.
The risk of prostate cancer is not the same with males as it is with female. With female it is very clearly defined get her altered before her first heat you reduce the chances of mammary cancer by 80% get it done by the second you reduce it by 65% so forth and so on. But with a male unless you are doing it for behavioral reasons there is no need and you can absolutely wait until around 2-3 years when the dog will reach full maturity. 
I personally with my own pet would wait if I ever decided I wanted a male but probably only if I had a certain breed well particularly any bully breed so that there muscles where as defined as they could naturally get. (meaning without me working the dog out via runs swimming ect)


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Aireal said:


> I believe it does make a big difference in the appearance of the male dog if you get them fixed young.
> I would say if you are not having issues with the two males (I have had a lot of experience showing IT DOES make a difference unaltered vers altered just as far as dominance not as much DA) then you can hold off.
> The risk of prostate cancer is not the same with males as it is with female. With female it is very clearly defined get her altered before her first heat you reduce the chances of mammary cancer by 80% get it done by the second you reduce it by 65% so forth and so on. But with a male unless you are doing it for behavioral reasons there is no need and you can absolutely wait until around 2-3 years when the dog will reach full maturity.
> I personally with my own pet would wait if I ever decided I wanted a male but probably only if I had a certain breed well particularly any bully breed so that there muscles where as defined as they could naturally get. (meaning without me working the dog out via runs swimming ect)


Neutering a dog does not affect or improve his temperament.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

How does neutering a dog affect its appearance??


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

k8nkane said:


> How does neutering a dog affect its appearance??


Did you read the article that gamer posted on page 1?


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Er ... I tried to.  But all I could read was BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH lol.

I'll try again, haha.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

So my dogs are going to have bone problems and look lopsided???


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

k8nkane said:


> So my dogs are going to have bone problems and look lopsided???


NO... you need to read the article don't be lazy lol


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## christina60546 (May 6, 2010)

I unfortunately had to get Jake neutered at 10 weeks old, I do not believe it stunted his height, maybe it did, I will never know, but he definitely doesn't look like he's filled out in the head, chest, body. If I had the option I would of neutered him when he was fully matured. There is much more information/ proof above, but thats just my opinion lol


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

ok whatever you say


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

It's a topic that I'm sure another group of "scientists" could have another totally opposite opinion about, but it still makes me want to rethink my conclusions and what I was told by my vet. Great reading for sure!!! Thank you Gamer


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

christina60546 said:


> I unfortunately had to get Jake neutered at 10 weeks old, I do not believe it stunted his height, maybe it did, I will never know, but he definitely doesn't look like he's filled out in the head, chest, body. If I had the option I would of neutered him when he was fully matured. There is much more information/ proof above, but thats just my opinion lol


It doesnt affect growth as far as height. They can be taller because the (for lack of better word here) "effort" being put into testosterone or estrogen which is a steroid type hormone for example is being put to height. Gosh, I know this doesnt make sense and I'm no scientist but leaving the testicles to produce testosterone for a while gives them the more masculine looking traits. Let's try this:

In men, testosterone plays a key role in the development of male reproductive tissues such as the testis and prostate as well as promoting secondary sexual characteristics such as increased muscle and bone mass and hair growth.[3] In addition, testosterone is essential for health and well-being[4] as well as the prevention of osteoporosis.[5]


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

k8nkane said:


> So my dogs are going to have bone problems and look lopsided???


Maybe, you just never know. I'm sure there are dogs with bone problems that never got neutered/spayed in the 1st place. Your dog could suffer from health issues for many reasons.

For example, vaccines for their entire life may be the cause of some diseases/issues... but I digress that is for another thread


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

coppermare said:


> It doesnt affect growth as far as height. They can be taller because the (for lack of better word here) "effort" being put into testosterone or estrogen which is a steroid type hormone for example is being put to height. Gosh, I know this doesnt make sense and I'm no scientist but leaving the testicles to produce testosterone for a while gives them the more masculine looking traits. Let's try this:
> 
> In men, testosterone plays a key role in the development of male reproductive tissues such as the testis and prostate as well as promoting secondary sexual characteristics such as increased muscle and bone mass and hair growth.[3] In addition, testosterone is essential for health and well-being[4] as well as the prevention of osteoporosis.[5]


In fact it does affect height, the testies produce testasterone which signals the growth plates to close. When the testies are absent the delay of closing allows the dog to grow taller with less skeletal density.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

NesOne said:


> Maybe, you just never know. I'm sure there are dogs with bone problems that never got neutered/spayed in the 1st place. Your dog could suffer from health issues for many reasons.
> 
> For example, vaccines for their entire life may be the cause of some diseases/issues... but I digress that is for another thread


you think 1st shots are enough and then the required rabbies every 3 years? I don't think IM gonna do my cats ever again besides the rabbies. They are indoors 24/7 so how will they come in contact with whatever it is im vaccinating them against?

I don't know about dogs though since they do go out and are exposed to other stuff. I read the inmune system of the dog should have its deffense set up from already frmo the initial vaccinations and it shouldnt require over vaccination every year though.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> you think 1st shots are enough and then the required rabbies every 3 years? I don't think IM gonna do my cats ever again besides the rabbies. They are indoors 24/7 so how will they come in contact with whatever it is im vaccinating them against?
> 
> I don't know about dogs though since they do go out and are exposed to other stuff. I read the inmune system of the dog should have its deffense set up from already frmo the initial vaccinations and it shouldnt require over vaccination every year though.


I do my own vaccine schedule, except the rabies which by law I have to do. There was a study done at UC Davis vet school and here is what I do.
Starting at 8 weeks
3 sets of puppy shots 3 weeks apart
then a year later boosters
then 3 years later a booster ( may even cut this one out)
then done for life

If I get an adult dog then just rabies.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

gamer said:


> I do my own vaccine schedule, except the rabies which by law I have to do. There was a study done at UC Davis vet school and here is what I do.
> Starting at 8 weeks
> 3 sets of puppy shots 3 weeks apart
> then a year later boosters
> ...


So I should do the yearly boosters and that's it besides the required rabbies?


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> So I should do the yearly boosters and that's it besides the required rabbies?


Its personal preference but I do know that we over vaccinate our animals. If you are ever worried you can do titer tests, I will see if I can find the study online somewhere, it was about 6 years ago now but I remember the vet I worked for and I talked about it and they had run titers etc and came to this solution.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I didn't think of the titer test, that is a great idea!


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

davidfitness83 said:


> you think 1st shots are enough and then the required rabbies every 3 years? I don't think IM gonna do my cats ever again besides the rabbies.


Well, the 1st shots, and every 3-4 weeks until they are 4 months old and the booster at 1 year. As far as rabies, I only do it because it's required by law, otherwise I wouldn't do that one at all.



gamer said:


> I do my own vaccine schedule, except the rabies which by law I have to do. There was a study done at UC Davis vet school and here is what I do.
> Starting at 8 weeks
> 3 sets of puppy shots 3 weeks apart
> then a year later boosters
> ...


We see eye to eye on this, except I start at 5 weeks (6 in 1) and stop at the 16 weeks (7 in 1), do the 1 year booster and it's a done deal. As mentioned above, because of the law, rabies are at 4 months, 1 year booster, and then every 3 years.



gamer said:


> Its personal preference but I do know that we over vaccinate our animals. If you are ever worried you can do titer tests, I will see if I can find the study online somewhere, it was about 6 years ago now but I remember the vet I worked for and I talked about it and they had run titers etc and came to this solution.


:goodpost:


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> In fact it does affect height, the testies produce testasterone which signals the growth plates to close. When the testies are absent the delay of closing allows the dog to grow taller with less skeletal density.


That is what I said, do it early you get height, do it late you get masculinity. With halter horses it was done late, to get the wide jaws, big chest and rears, performance horses, like jumpers, later to get that height.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

So Adrian, what did you decide to do?


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## dylroche1 (Mar 14, 2010)

Neutering really does affect how they will turn out.. My older pit Diesel I got neutered young ( I regret doing so lol) he turned out taller and definately has not really gained any muscle/definition doesnt matter to me though he is still the best dog I have ever had... I dont plan on getting my new pup neutered though and if I did it definately wouldnt be till he is fully matured.. Definately true about dogs losing muscle imo when they get spayed or neutered.. My friend has a 2 year old female pit that was so fit and he got her spayed and she lost her definition and got pretty wide..


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