# American Bully Health Testing



## Sadie

Just curious for those of you that breed American Bullies or are involved in the Bully community with breeding in general how many of you actually health test your dogs cardiac and hip being the most important prior to breeding. I have read a lot of times bullies fail the hip testing. Would you breed an American Bully if it failed the health testing and how many of you actually have the health testing done prior to breeding?

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

PennHIP Home


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## Sadie

Come on Bully People let's not be shy .. This is a real concern for both APBT breeder's and Bully Breeder's but how many of you are actually doing this I seem to never see any heath testing done of many of the bully sites I visit .. Is this because bullies tend to fail health testing ? Or is it because many bully breeders have not yet jumped on the wagon for health testing? This is a general concern as it should be for all breeder's so I am just trying to put it out there to see how many of the Bully Breeder's do this it would be interesting to know as well how many XXL XL bullies pass these tests? I would really love to get some feedback from Bully Breeder's who do health test and from those who don't and why?


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## davidfitness83

I prelimed Bernie on his hips most likely mild dysplasia. I don't breed but I wanted to compete and possibly had used his blood to make a bandog but with those results that will never happen.


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## Sadie

That's a great answer .. Does it concern you that many of these bullies are bred without health testing being done? I was on a bully forum and I read many bully bullies don't pass hip testing that is why they don't do it? I don't know how true this it .. But I feel that as a breeder if the testing comes back and something is off the dog shouldn't be bred.


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## Black Label Romo

I do know of a few kennels who health test...
As far as to why and why not I cannot answer for other people...


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## Sampsons Dad

70 percent of all the bull dogs hips x-rays are a mild to moderate displasia.
Stands to reason that bullies would be the same.
People got it wrong...
a mild displasia doesn't mean the dog is useless for breeding
There is a method to the breeding of hips.
If a pup with mild dis is fro a line of dogs with good to fair hips (siblings grand parents and parents) then that dog could theoretically be bred to a "good" hip dog and produce a good litter.
That is the problem with people not putting in time to learn how to use the tools of modern vet medicine. Plus these Bully breeders don't even care if they have APBT papers or Bully papers so why would they put in the time and money to the breed?


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## Sampsons Dad

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


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## Sadie

This is not about game dogs .. This is the bully 101 thread. I am just asking a question because it should be important to any breeder. And I know several APBT breeder's who do health test but that is besides the point. I am just trying to get an idea if it's generally done or not. And if it's not done why? I have no problem with breeding big dogs as long as they are healthy. I have talked to a few Bully Breeder's myself so I am just putting it out there.


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## Black Label Romo

Okay...well then the answer would be no...I do not see it done as often as it should be...why...you'd have to ask them lol...


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## Sampsons Dad

Sadie said:


> This is not about game dogs .. This is the bully 101 thread. I am just asking a question because it should be important to any breeder. And I know several APBT breeder's who do health test but that is besides the point. I am just trying to get an idea if it's generally done or not. And if it's not done why? I have no problem with breeding big dogs as long as they are healthy. I have talked to a few Bully Breeder's myself so I am just putting it out there.


I am not talking abut APBT ...I am talking breeders in general.
We have the same problem in Mastiff breeders.


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## Sadie

Sampsons Dad said:


> 70 percent of all the bull dogs hips x-rays are a mild to moderate displasia.
> Stands to reason that bullies would be the same.
> People got it wrong...
> a mild displasia doesn't mean the dog is useless for breeding
> There is a method to the breeding of hips.
> If a pup with mild dis is fro a line of dogs with good to fair hips (siblings grand parents and parents) then that dog could theoretically be bred to a "good" hip dog and produce a good litter.
> That is the problem with people not putting in time to learn how to use the tools of modern vet medicine. Plus these Bully breeders don't even care if they have APBT papers or Bully papers so why would they put in the time and money to the breed?


Thank You Sampson this is what I was looking for :goodpost: Very good post. I have actually visited some bully forums and was told that most bullies don't pass the hip testing... So I was trying to give some other bully folks the chance to respond to that I am always open to learning more. I am pretty firm in believing that dogs should be health tested in these times. And that you should know and be aware of any health problems that surround your dogs in the first few generations prior to breeding that dog. Obviously you would need to outweigh the benefits/risks of breeding that dog depending on the results.


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## Black Label Romo

I do believe she was talking to me Sampsons Dad lol...
sorry for the confusion!


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## Sadie

Sampsons Dad said:


> I am not talking abut APBT ...I am talking breeders in general.
> We have the same problem in Mastiff breeders.


I am sorry I should have quoted  I was speaking to Lone Star .. Your answer was much appreciated and very helpful


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## Sampsons Dad

Sadie said:


> I am sorry I should have quoted  I was speaking to Lone Star .. Your answer was much appreciated and very helpful


:woof::woof::woof:


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## Black Label Romo

I agree awesome post Sampsons Dad...
And thank you for the links! I will definitley be looking into this more!! I'm always ready to learn...
Good topic Sadie thanks!


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## Indigo Bully Connection

Well, in MOST cases you cannot judge a dog by it's outward appearance. That is why there are things like health testing. I know I've heard of a couple of breeders who took a dog in knowing it would fail and it passed and vice versa. It's much more common in the GSD world. IMO, if there hasn't been health testing to start with how can the community lump their dogs together and say "oh, it's a lost cause... they're a bully and there's no need in health testing because i know he will fail". That is pure crud I tell ya! 

What it all boils down to is that people are far too sensitive to invest their money into a test that could come back as a negative, thus tarnishing the reputation of their kennel. When they have had their hearts set on banking on their dogs reproductive system from the moment the turn on the computer screen to Google American Bully or Bully Pits etc. before purchasing their first dogs. Ignorance is bliss especially when your Christmas presents are secure under your tree because of the money you made pawning off those Christmas puppies.


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## BullyTheKid

*Health testing is relative new even in the show world of the American pit Bull terrier, by new im saying 10 years, with a boom of requiring health tests in the last 5 years.

The American Bully community is not as versed on the procedures and tests that should be used to determine breeding potential or stock. If the average American Bully owner has dogs that are under the age of 4 they may have not experienced a dog that is dysplastic, therefore the need to health test will not neccesarily be on their mind.

The majority of all breeders do not use health testing, in regards to hips and hearts. The statistics that say most fail, I would challenge based soley on the fact that few dogs have been tested to have an adequate sample size to pass a judgement. Health testing is also not going to elimninate dysplasia or heart issues, often times people breed sub par dogs based on the passing of health tests when the dog is structuarally not a dog that should be bred.

The American Bully does have breeders that health tests, as a member of the community I encourage health testing, although I encourage hearts over hips, if its one or the other.
To state that most would fail is based soley off of appearance and not science as I doubt very many have been tested. However, you show me the ones who have recieved a OFA poor, or who are dysplastic and I will show you some who have passed. I know of one very predominate Bully male who was dysplastic, but I also know of dogs that are 4 times bred on said dog who are OFA good.

The reason for the lack of health tested dog, is purely a lack of education and mentorship in the area of testing. *


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## Sampsons Dad

"Founded and originally incorporated as a private not for profit foundation in 1966, the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) has passed its 40th birthday and is moving into the future."

You are right Bully the Kid, a lack of proper mentor ship and research is to blame.


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## Indigo Bully Connection

BullyTheKid said:


> *Health testing is relative new even in the show world of the American pit Bull terrier, by new im saying 10 years, with a boom of requiring health tests in the last 5 years.
> 
> The American Bully community is not as versed on the procedures and tests that should be used to determine breeding potential or stock. If the average American Bully owner has dogs that are under the age of 4 they may have not experienced a dog that is dysplastic, therefore the need to health test will not neccesarily be on their mind.
> 
> The majority of all breeders do not use health testing, in regards to hips and hearts. The statistics that say most fail, I would challenge based soley on the fact that few dogs have been tested to have an adequate sample size to pass a judgement. Health testing is also not going to elimninate dysplasia or heart issues, often times people breed sub par dogs based on the passing of health tests when the dog is structuarally not a dog that should be bred.
> 
> The American Bully does have breeders that health tests, as a member of the community I encourage health testing, although I encourage hearts over hips, if its one or the other.
> To state that most would fail is based soley off of appearance and not science as I doubt very many have been tested. However, you show me the ones who have recieved a OFA poor, or who are dysplastic and I will show you some who have passed. I know of one very predominate Bully male who was dysplastic, but I also know of dogs that are 4 times bred on said dog who are OFA good.
> 
> The reason for the lack of health tested dog, is purely a lack of education and mentorship in the area of testing. *


No ! Thank you... not enough of them health test in the first place to be able to even back up the statement that most will fail.


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## Sadie

These are both very good posts and I thank you both for answering my questions. I do believe there should be more pushing for health testing on both sides of the fence. But because the American Bully is typically a much larger dog there are certain health concerns such as cardiac and hip testing that should be done prior to breeding. You wouldn't want to produce a whole litter of unhealthy pups for the sake of making money off them. Well you shouldn't anyway I can't speak for every breeder's intentions. I think this should be an issue that is pushed and brought to light within in the Bully community if you don't mind me saying so.


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## Sampsons Dad

When you look at the blood that goes into the bullies one can speculate that hips displasia and heart problems and heat stroke will be prevalent.


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## Sampsons Dad

I test hips, elbows, heart, allergies in dogos and neo's and i have been blessed.
It is not that hard if you pick from a good breeder for your foundation.


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## Sadie

Sampson that is my whole thing I am not against the breeding of the American Bully as much as I am knowing many of them are unhealthy due to lack of health testing done or even caring if what they are producing is healthy. By all means breed the freakiest dog on the planet but at least make sure the dog is healthy and won't die before it hit's 1. That has always been my biggest concern for the breed. And I appreciate those bully breeder's who do health test and are pushing to have it done by educating other bully breeders! That is awesome


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## Indigo Bully Connection

Sampsons Dad said:


> "Founded and originally incorporated as a private not for profit foundation in 1966, the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) has passed its 40th birthday and is moving into the future."
> 
> You are right Bully the Kid, a lack of proper mentor ship and research is to blame.


I don't think he meant the OFA is new, rather people hadn't readily have information to search for via the internet until recent years. Ignorance is okay until a certain point, and when you make a conscience decision to not health test after finding out the benefits it has to offer you and your pet after having the facts and tools in front of you... that's where it gets no bueno. There are far more irresponsible breeders in the dog world period than responsible and that is why i believe the internet has given us a window of an opportunity to create such a wonderful no pressure meeting ground for like minds to express themselves and educate others about their experiences in the dog world. The dog community is growing... and it's growing big time... it's a matter of getting a good network of quality kennels to continue to strive to be the best that they can be and let others follow suite.


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## Sampsons Dad

One of my mentors likes to breed his older dogs. Reason being that, although he doesn't health test like I do, he knows if the dog is 8 years old with no problems, chances are good that the dog will produce good pups.


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## Sampsons Dad

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> I don't think he meant the OFA is new, rather people hadn't readily have information to search for via the internet until recent years. Ignorance is okay until a certain point, and when you make a conscience decision to not health test after finding out the benefits it has to offer you and your pet after having the facts and tools in front of you... that's where it gets no bueno. There are far more irresponsible breeders in the dog world period than responsible and that is why i believe the internet has given us a window of an opportunity to create such a wonderful no pressure meeting ground for like minds to express themselves and educate others about their experiences in the dog world. The dog community is growing... and it's growing big time... it's a matter of getting a good network of quality kennels to continue to strive to be the best that they can be and let others follow suite.


Before I got into breeding and owning the Pit Bull (way back) I started with dog books and meeting as many dog men as I could. The books spoke about health testing as well as explained the process.


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## BullyTheKid

*I have never been one who put much stock in speculation and assumption.s. The blood that went into the majority of American Bullies is untested blood. That blood even when traced back will desend from AmStaffs that were not havily tested at the time.

RazorEdge as a whole has been rarely health tested and Gotti even less. So we will be making assumptions about the dogs in the pedigree that created the line. Kimmar/Cloverhill kennels for instance, has strains that have been heavily tested, one being Hilltop Kennels in Va, which have great health test results, both hip and hearts. The dogs are very different from American Bullies obviously and are for the most part AKC and UKC registered and have great structure.

I am not arguing that there are not dogs that will fail health testing as I am sure there are. I am a proponent for health testing and have dogs (UKC APBT) that are health tested, penn hipped and hearts checked by cardiologists, and hail from dogs that have been health tested and titled for the past 6 generations.

I am just not a fan of broad speculation and generalizatons, when it comes to dogs. Same reason I am an opponent against BSL, but that is way off topic. *


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## Indigo Bully Connection

Sampsons Dad said:


> Before I got into breeding and owning the Pit Bull (way back) I started with dog books and meeting as many dog men as I could. The books spoke about health testing as well as explained the process.


I will be honest, when i got into pit bull type dogs I didn't know much of anything at all. I bought a pretty puppy that one day i was going to breed and make my money back. That dog along with the internet connections that I have made (thankfully they were working dog people) taught me so much so fast. I had never heard of health testing until I got to meet Theresa (patch o pits). Even in the working world at that point, there weren't many health testing. At this point in my life, i feel as though there isn't any excuse to have a planned breeding without planned health testing.


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## Sampsons Dad

If a line produces alot of bowed out elbows you can speculate with a great deal of accuracy that many of those dogs will have elbow displasia.
Correct confirmation is a result of healthy animals with good movement 
bred to other healthy animals with good, correct movement. The testing just helps to pick the better mates. The confirmation is even more important than testing in a way.
if a dog doesn't look or move like the breed it represents no health testing in the world can help it.


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## BullyTheKid

*Just read some posts

Thank you Shana, not saying that the tests are new, I am speaking about the it being used as a tool in our community. Both AST and APBTs.

As far as dogs dying at the age of I could show you a ton of 5 year old dogs. In regards to Bully breeds in general, how many of the 10000 members on GP have dogs that come from health tested parents? Very few I would imagine.

The reason that I encourage health testing in the Bully Community is the smaller gene pool. In regards to lines and strains, I have not however seen a drastic amount of dogs that are obviously dysplastic, but hell I know dogs that are working dogs at the age of 7 that are dysplastic and you wouldnt know. And I have seen some GSDs at 2 that can barely walk.

All in all, if Bully breeders breed for better structure first and breed only the best of the breed hopefully some of the issues will pass, and the emphasis on health will increase.

I always ask for examples, examples of dysplastic Bullies, dead at 1 do to health examples, I have never been big on hearsay but thats just me. Not to say that they are not out there, but once again facts outweigh opinion, even my own.*


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## Sadie

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Well, in MOST cases you cannot judge a dog by it's outward appearance. That is why there are things like health testing. I know I've heard of a couple of breeders who took a dog in knowing it would fail and it passed and vice versa. It's much more common in the GSD world. IMO, if there hasn't been health testing to start with how can the community lump their dogs together and say "oh, it's a lost cause... they're a bully and there's no need in health testing because i know he will fail". That is pure crud I tell ya!
> 
> What it all boils down to is that people are far too sensitive to invest their money into a test that could come back as a negative, thus tarnishing the reputation of their kennel. When they have had their hearts set on banking on their dogs reproductive system from the moment the turn on the computer screen to Google American Bully or Bully Pits etc. before purchasing their first dogs. Ignorance is bliss especially when your Christmas presents are secure under your tree because of the money you made pawning off those Christmas puppies.





BullyTheKid said:


> *Health testing is relative new even in the show world of the American pit Bull terrier, by new im saying 10 years, with a boom of requiring health tests in the last 5 years.
> 
> The American Bully community is not as versed on the procedures and tests that should be used to determine breeding potential or stock. If the average American Bully owner has dogs that are under the age of 4 they may have not experienced a dog that is dysplastic, therefore the need to health test will not neccesarily be on their mind.
> 
> The majority of all breeders do not use health testing, in regards to hips and hearts. The statistics that say most fail, I would challenge based soley on the fact that few dogs have been tested to have an adequate sample size to pass a judgement. Health testing is also not going to elimninate dysplasia or heart issues, often times people breed sub par dogs based on the passing of health tests when the dog is structuarally not a dog that should be bred.
> 
> The American Bully does have breeders that health tests, as a member of the community I encourage health testing, although I encourage hearts over hips, if its one or the other.
> To state that most would fail is based soley off of appearance and not science as I doubt very many have been tested. However, you show me the ones who have recieved a OFA poor, or who are dysplastic and I will show you some who have passed. I know of one very predominate Bully male who was dysplastic, but I also know of dogs that are 4 times bred on said dog who are OFA good.
> 
> The reason for the lack of health tested dog, is purely a lack of education and mentorship in the area of testing. *





Indigo Bully Connection said:


> At this point in my life, i feel as though there isn't any excuse to have a planned breeding without planned health testing.


:goodpost:

Shana one thing I love about you is that you own Bullies but your not sensitive to the issues that surrounds them. Nor will you sugar coat anything to protect your breed of choice. I feel that health testing is very important and should be done bottom line. I would personally like to see more American Bullies health tested. The thing is the average consumer is not aware of the health issues that surrounds these dogs. I don't know if I am being too general I tend to think I am being very realistic from everything I have researched about this breed. It would piss me off to drop 5,000 on a dog that died before it hit 3-4.


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## BullyTheKid

*Just read your last post Sampson, seems we agree LOL Good posting!*


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## Sadie

Bullythekid ... From the research I have done the average life span on the American Bully is 6-7 years. But the number one cause of death in the American Bully is heart problems. But I have also spoken to a couple bully owners who lost dogs younger than that most of them were the XXL dogs. Am I wrong in saying that the American Bully doesn't have a lot of health issues that surround them? Would health testing being done especially cardiac testing not prevent some of these issues? Maybe paying attention to other things while breeding instead of a certain size or color?


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## Indigo Bully Connection

Sadie said:


> Bullythekid ... From the research I have done the average life span on the American Bully is 6-7 years. But the number one cause of death in the American Bully is heart problems. But I have also spoken to a couple bully owners who lost dogs younger than that most of them were the XXL dogs. Am I wrong in saying that the American Bully doesn't have a lot of health issues that surround them? Would health testing being done especially cardiac testing not prevent some of these issues? Maybe paying attention to other things while breeding instead of a certain size or color?


Well since we don't really have a firm number on the American Bullies that have been health tested, it is safe to say that we do have them for the APBT and Am Staff. Heart issues are carried in both breeds, so i would have to assume (I hate doing that) that it would have to be a comparable number between the two.

I know a lady who has a bitch who has been bred four times. Three litters out of four produced puppies with heart conditions when it was known for a fact that the bitch herself was clear from the defect. The bitch was bred to 3 different studs out of the four litters. If that were my yard after the second litter that produced heart defects with a different stud the bitch would have been retired. So it's not always necessarily the breed nor the specific representatives that we choose for our kennels it's how they are put together in the history behind each dog. The breed of dog is AST... there are plenty of show bred APBTs who carry this issue as well. Technically the statistics recorded are probably equivalent for the Gamebred APBT as it is the American Bully.


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## BullyTheKid

*hm

It is my experience that the American Bully, has lacked consistency for the majority of the breeds short existence. If you base the inception as the start of the primary registry, you are going back only 5 years.

I often tell people that the breed is in its infancy and if we base the breed by mature generations it will be considered a fetus at best. See you cant base a breed off of sheer numbers and what people deem their animals.

Now, yes I agree health testing, especially hearts as I stated earlier will help in regards to breeding healthy animals.

However, heart disease just as in people hass a greater affect on humans who are obese. A large number of Bully owners equated Bulliness with size, causing a large number of owners to have obese dogs. That mentality is changing and the amount of dogs suffering from heart related issues will decline in my opinion, due to people stop having obese animals.

Side note, most Bully owners come from APBT as their breed of choice before they went Bully. APBTs are very durable and can stand the elements, note DIBO dogs in AZ that could handle 100 degree weather. Throw on an additional 30 to 45 pounds on a dog and suddenly you have more dogs dying of heat stroke or heart issues when worked in extremes.

In my experience this is the biggest cause of death, people trying to work their bullies as APBTs and not ackowledging the physical limitations of their breed of choice. They are not considering their breed, in regards to conditioning, and housing outside, and dogs die as a result.

Weight and muzzle length and these conditions and conditioning practices play a role in deaths.

This would be my observation over a lack of overall health due to genetics. *


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## davidfitness83

Why do breeders keep their dogs fat?

My dog might come back with mild dysplasia but he doesn't show it so is it fair to breed him because he doesn't show it, when deep inside I know his structure is not correct?


The answer is simple don't run in circles defending the breeders and the breed by saying that the breed is new. Just health test your stock and breed to healthy specimens. When Bully breeders decide to do what is right for the animal, the world will take them seriously.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Well, in MOST cases you cannot judge a dog by it's outward appearance. That is why there are things like health testing. I know I've heard of a couple of breeders who took a dog in knowing it would fail and it passed and vice versa. It's much more common in the GSD world. IMO, if there hasn't been health testing to start with how can the community lump their dogs together and say "oh, it's a lost cause... they're a bully and there's no need in health testing because i know he will fail". That is pure crud I tell ya!
> 
> What it all boils down to is that people are far too sensitive to invest their money into a test that could come back as a negative, thus tarnishing the reputation of their kennel. When they have had their hearts set on banking on their dogs reproductive system from the moment the turn on the computer screen to Google American Bully or Bully Pits etc. before purchasing their first dogs. Ignorance is bliss especially when your Christmas presents are secure under your tree because of the money you made pawning off those Christmas puppies.





BullyTheKid said:


> *Health testing is relative new even in the show world of the American pit Bull terrier, by new im saying 10 years, with a boom of requiring health tests in the last 5 years.
> 
> The American Bully community is not as versed on the procedures and tests that should be used to determine breeding potential or stock. If the average American Bully owner has dogs that are under the age of 4 they may have not experienced a dog that is dysplastic, therefore the need to health test will not neccesarily be on their mind.
> 
> The majority of all breeders do not use health testing, in regards to hips and hearts. The statistics that say most fail, I would challenge based soley on the fact that few dogs have been tested to have an adequate sample size to pass a judgement. Health testing is also not going to elimninate dysplasia or heart issues, often times people breed sub par dogs based on the passing of health tests when the dog is structuarally not a dog that should be bred.
> 
> The American Bully does have breeders that health tests, as a member of the community I encourage health testing, although I encourage hearts over hips, if its one or the other.
> To state that most would fail is based soley off of appearance and not science as I doubt very many have been tested. However, you show me the ones who have recieved a OFA poor, or who are dysplastic and I will show you some who have passed. I know of one very predominate Bully male who was dysplastic, but I also know of dogs that are 4 times bred on said dog who are OFA good.
> 
> The reason for the lack of health tested dog, is purely a lack of education and mentorship in the area of testing. *










Excellent posts!


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## Sadie

BullyTheKid said:


> *
> In my experience this is the biggest cause of death, people trying to work their bullies as APBTs and not ackowledging the physical limitations of their breed of choice. They are not considering their breed, in regards to conditioning, and housing outside, and dogs die as a result.
> 
> Weight and muzzle length and these conditions and conditioning practices play a role in deaths.
> 
> This would be my observation over a lack of overall health due to genetics. *


I would have to agree with this because it's obvious that the American Bully was not bred to be a working dog. And you have some kennels/owner's using them for that purpose which to me is just silly. If you want a working dog get a working dog that is what they were bred for. It makes no sense to take a 145lb dog and try to use it as a working animal when structurally they are not bred for that type of work. That doesn't mean they can't work some are bred to only be 60-70lbs full grown some smaller than that. But we all know that for a working dog the larger they are the more limited they are due to the extra baggage. Showing these dogs in conformation is one thing but putting them on the WP track is another. And then throw extreme conditions on top of it and you really have a dangerous situation health wise for a breed of dogs that was not bred to withstand such conditions.


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## pitbullmamanatl

OK where can one get their bullies health tested? Should their regular vet be able to do this?


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## Sadie

The information for the vets/clinics are on these sites to have the testing done. I posted them in the beginning of the thread but here they are again 

http://www.offa.org/forms.html

Locate a PennHIP Vet


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## BullyTheKid

* Running in circles to defend breeders interesting....

The fact is this, health testing comes about through education. Health testing has and will always be a tool in helping better a breed, however it is never the end all be all, why..because health testing does not guarantee that pups are free of dysplasia or heart issues. It tells you about your dog, not his littermates or his parents for that matter.

I know dogs that had great hips, but threw dogs that were dysplastic. I also know of dogs that had poor hip scores and had dogs with great hips.

By no means am I defending unethical breeders, but there is a lot to breeding dogs and truly bettering a breed. Health testing is a tool, and one has to truly understand what goes into evaluating hips to truly understand the testing.

As far as the breed being in its infancy, I feel that it is not an excuse, it is a fact. As I have said several times in this thread and others, a lack of mentorship has a lot to do with a breed being in its infancy, especially a breed which was not planned in a well thought out, executed breeding program, with a specific end result. Ethical and professional breeding practices has a lot to do with mentorship.

I will post up any of my dogs, their pedigree and you will see how far back health testing goes with my dogs. They are Grand Champions, titled at bare minimum with a basic UWP if not a UWPCH, and have been health tested, as have their sires and dams, and their great sires and dams, guess what they are still not bred.

The statement about a dog that has a prelim health test of mild dysplasia, being removed from a breeding program, is great for you, but I would evaluate a dog as a whole and what it brings to the gene pool. If a dog is a scatter bred heap, and lacks the structure and temperment of its breed, weighs more in my mind than that prelim. However I am not a breeder.

SIDENOTE: Truly understand what it is the tests are designed to tell you and how that will effect a breeding.

As far as the world taking the American Bully seriously, I could care less to be honest. I want their owners to take them seriously and breed better animals first. What the world thinks is not my concern, I want the protectors of the breed to get serious about the breed.

I stated why people had fat dogs above.

Sadie,

You can have the x-rays done by a vet, I Penn Hipp for hips and there are certified vets who do it and you have to look for one in your area. Often times if the University in your state has a Veterinary Medicine Program they will be able to do all tests. The University of Ga is great here.

At some UKC shows they test for hearts, I like a canine cardiologist to do the test, but you would have to find one in your area, through some research. It is not hard to find someone to do it, but like anything, if you use a vet who does a lot of them they will be able to explain what it is they are looking for and what you are looking at in an x ray.*


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## BullyTheKid

*Sorry Sadie just saw you posted the links, dont know why i thought you were asking, my fault lol!*


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## Sadie

BullyTheKid said:


> *
> Sadie,
> 
> You can have the x-rays done by a vet, I Penn Hipp for hips and there are certified vets who do it and you have to look for one in your area. Often times if the University in your state has a Veterinary Medicine Program they will be able to do all tests. The University of Ga is great here.
> 
> At some UKC shows they test for hearts, I like a canine cardiologist to do the test, but you would have to find one in your area, through some research. It is not hard to find someone to do it, but like anything, if you use a vet who does a lot of them they will be able to explain what it is they are looking for and what you are looking at in an x ray.*


Yes I know this I just didn't feel like typing it all up LOL:goodpost: There is a lot of good info on those sites I posted links for and for those who have never looked at them should read them over to see the options available to them. Yes your vet can do the x-rays but there is also a locator for certified vets in your area as well which is why I posted the links up for those wanting to have it done or look further into what's available in their area.


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## Sadie

BullyTheKid said:


> *Sorry Sadie just saw you posted the links, dont know why i thought you were asking, my fault lol!*


It's ok LOL ..


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## pitbullmamanatl

Sadie said:


> The information for the vets/clinics are on these sites to have the testing done. I posted them in the beginning of the thread but here they are again
> 
> Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
> 
> Locate a PennHIP Vet


My bad girl. I was reading while baking something so couldn't scroll. lol 
Thank you very much for the info.


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## davidfitness83

Can you post up their pedigrees ?

Health tested dogs do not guarantee 1


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## davidfitness83

Sorry I am on my iPhone I will continue posting tomorrow!


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## BullyTheKid

*My Boy UWPCH GRCH Trues C&Cs Corleone Kid CGC aka Capones ped (Littermate Playboys page) The dogs going back to Norman are tested to my knowledge. Cheryl Larum requires health testing as did Lisa Calderon. Bottom half Dam definite hips tested.

True Kennels - 'PR' True's GA Gigolo Kid

My boy UWP GRCH Tomahawks C&C Kevlar Kid aka Cochise ped (littermate brother ped Page Polo) Larum dogs health tested I will find a page with results for you, I'm sure they are on the Larum pages

PEDIGREE*


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## Sadie

BullyTheKid said:


> *My Boy UWPCH GRCH Trues C&Cs Corleone Kid CGC aka Capones ped (Littermate Playboys page) The dogs going back to Norman are tested to my knowledge. Cheryl Larum requires health testing as did Lisa Calderon. Bottom half Dam definite hips tested.
> 
> True Kennels - 'PR' True's GA Gigolo Kid
> 
> My boy UWP GRCH Tomahawks C&C Kevlar Kid aka Cochise ped (littermate brother ped Page Polo) Larum dogs health tested I will find a page with results for you, I'm sure they are on the Larum pages
> 
> PEDIGREE*


*

BTK do you consider your dogs American Bullies? They look like show bred Amstaff's to me even the pedigree's show a lot of larums which is really a UKC Show Amstaff line it looks like your dogs stem from the original stock. I wouldn't classify these dogs as American Bullies they are pretty Show/Amstaff bred IMO.*


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## Black Label Romo

They are AmStaffs except for his newest addition...
my boy btk is the man!!!
thanks for blessing the section bro...love ya man!!!


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## BullyTheKid

I consider them pitterstaffs lol! 

Don't let them name full you, Bully is for Bully Breeds lol!

I have a 13 year old gamebred dog as well! I'm not exactly a newbie in the breed and have been a student of the breed for a long time, friends with the likes of Floyd Boudreaux, to Pam Carter, to Tia Torres, to Dave Wilson. 

My boy Prophecy is an American Bully, from Gorilla Kennels. I showed dogs in UKC and that's where I learned about health testing.


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## Sadie

Yeah that's what I would call them Amstaffs ..... I didn't see his new addition. I thought he owned bullies but I wouldn't call those dogs bullies based on the pedigree's.


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## Sadie

BullyTheKid said:


> I consider them pitterstaffs lol!
> 
> Don't let them name full you, Bully is for Bully Breeds lol!
> 
> I have a 13 year old gamebred dog as well! I'm not exactly a newbie in the breed and have been a student of the breed for a long time, friends with the likes of Floyd Boudreaux, to Pam Carter, to Tia Torres, to Dave Wilson.
> 
> My boy Prophecy is an American Bully, from Gorilla Kennels. I showed dogs in UKC and that's where I learned about health testing.


Ok Gotcha I was thrown off when I saw the pedigree's as I thought you only owned bullies I was like wait a second those aren't bullies hehehe. Both dogs are well bred show dogs and I know of the breeder. I am in Georgia as well. .


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## BullyTheKid

Cool!!!

Rolando is one of my best friends, was a groomsman in his wedding a couple months back. In fact I worked sone of his dogs in weightpull as well. Education in dogs comes from communication across the board from breeders to rescues to working to show! I was a dog guy well before I became Bully the Kid! 

I'm going to have my post my resume lol! I'm playing!


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## Sadie

HAHAHA @ posting your resume .... Well you seem well educated on the breed it's always good to talk to passionate well educated owner's of this breed lord knows there is not enough of them around. I don't go to any UKC shows because my dogs are ADBA and don't really fit the standard. But I know a well bred good looking dog when I see one and you have some great looking UKC show dogs. Congrats with getting them titled as well and kudo's on the health testing. I don't breed but plan on getting mine health tested as well coming up soon


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## Sampsons Dad

Health testing starts with the dogs first vet visit.
Listening to the heart is the very first health test.
From there you can pennhip, certify cardiac, ebows, CERF eyes, BAER test white dogs....etc
If your local vet doesn't do it they may be able to refer you to a vet that does.
But...if the dog has poor confirmation, no testing in the world will help its progeny if you breed it.


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## bahamutt99

Debates aside, I hope against hope that we can all get on the same page someday with health-testing. Because irrespective of how long we've been doing things a certain way, it'd be nice if we could show people "hey, this is the way we need to do it from here on out." Its all about moving forward, not arguing bass-ackward. The more people, the more puppy-buyers who get educated and start demanding these tests, it can only make these dogs healthier. That's not to say that an OFA Good is a sound reason to breed a dog, but as a part of the whole package? I say yes. For Bully or APBT, goose and gander.

OFA - Terra
OFA - Loki

Who am I kidding? I just like talking about my dogs. Its all ulterior motive with me. LOL!


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## bluefamily

we health test.
We chose to do it because it was recommended here at GPB as part of the rationale to support we developed prior to the start of our breeding program. 
What I have found since has been many folks that I have access to, just don't know about it. 
either that or it is a money thing and the economic strata I have been exposed to around where I live that heavily deal with dogs.


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## SouthernMystery

After reading this I would suggest that bullythekid does a show about health testing. I've been listening to the bully booth and back to the bullies for awhile now and with that being said, it seems like back to the bullies are focused on showing right now.. it'd be great if you focus on health testing.


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## pitbullmamanatl

SouthernMystery said:


> After reading this I would suggest that bullythekid does a show about health testing. I've been listening to the bully booth and back to the bullies for awhile now and with that being said, it seems like back to the bullies are focused on showing right now.. it'd be great if you focus on health testing.


Good idea....


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## MrsSemperFiBullies

We health test our bullies. Opha is already health tested, hips - Good, Elbows - Good, Heart - Good
Ooh-Rah went this past Wednesday for hips, elbows and Patella's. Vet said everything looked great, just waiting on ratings from OFA. His heart was checked yesterday by a Cardiologist and she said he was perfect!


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## pitbullmamanatl

MrsSemperFiBullies said:


> We health test our bullies. Opha is already health tested, hips - Good, Elbows - Good, Heart - Good
> Ooh-Rah went this past Wednesday for hips, elbows and Patella's. Vet said everything looked great, just waiting on ratings from OFA. His heart was checked yesterday by a Cardiologist and she said he was perfect!


That's what's up, Steph! Awesome!


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## Cindy1979

In the netherland no breeders does it's. You pay almost 5000 usa dollar for a non tested dog. Well, i'm not grazy....that's the reason i'm looking for a breeder in the USA whit tested dogs.


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