# my dog is old school razors edge and im looking for a male with similar ped



## nalasdaddy (Oct 9, 2011)

my girl is old school razors edge. to the laymen and someone whos going to jump on my back and say, she has no drive, no gameness, and no prey drive. a little info on razor edge before it was short and bully. my dog is i think 18 inches but she might be 19 and is 57 pounds. not supper heavy bone but is slightly larger boned than a pit dog. anyways at the begining of the edge line they breed some gr ch ukc dogs with some of the most game and best dogs, along with akc staffys and some hog dogs. this is what is in my dogs ped. she is strong as hell, never gives in to tire and has never ever shown any human aggression. now she is very aggressive with other females dogs and alot of males. i had a game dog before her and she is no less as hard or as tough as he, if not more so. 

what im really looking for is someone who is still breeding old school edge blood. not short useless bullys but strong beautiful old school razors edge. my girl has killed two ***** 3 rats a mouse and a baby duck while she was swiming. i want want a litter of dogs like her, with her power her drive, and her beauty and blue colors. not just dark blue but any thing blue. not really looking for a red to breed her to. i want the dogs to come out looking like her. one person i found was in Florida but its a bit far and has gotti in there blood. which worries me because i want drivey dogs that are athletes. old school razors edge has game dogs closer than you think and i dont want a game dog but i dont want it to loose its edge as a pitbull so i want and old school edge dog. please if anyone knows of a breeder close to maryland please feel free to say so


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Theres no need to feel you have to be defensive here. There is a BULLY section and a Working Dog section; we all blend here together learning from each other. Like our dogs, never trust a "pit bull" not to fight, we too have our lil rolls but it all comes out in the wash. There are those here who know exactly what went to RE and also know that when they crossed with Gotti it all went down hill as far as the extreme athleticism attributes of the dogs of RE's past. I have NO doubt you have a good lil working bulldog and the ONLY real RE of working quality I KNOW of is a dog named Twister, owned by a lady named Joy out in Montanna. 
AGAINST THE WIND KENNELS - Montana based breeder of performance Pit Bulls
(double click twister to see his ped)

Good luck and :welcome: to GoPitBull.com


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

nalasdaddy said:


> my girl is old school razors edge. to the laymen and someone whos going to jump on my back and say, she has no drive, no gameness, and no prey drive. a little info on razor edge before it was short and bully. my dog is i think 18 inches but she might be 19 and is 57 pounds. not supper heavy bone but is slightly larger boned than a pit dog. anyways at the begining of the edge line they breed some gr ch ukc dogs with some of the most game and best dogs, along with akc staffys and some hog dogs. this is what is in my dogs ped. she is strong as hell, never gives in to tire and has never ever shown any human aggression. now she is very aggressive with other females dogs and alot of males. i had a game dog before her and she is no less as hard or as tough as he, if not more so.
> 
> what im really looking for is someone who is still breeding old school edge blood. not short useless bullys but strong beautiful old school razors edge. my girl has killed two ***** 3 rats a mouse and a baby duck while she was swiming. i want want a litter of dogs like her, with her power her drive, and her beauty and blue colors. not just dark blue but any thing blue. not really looking for a red to breed her to. i want the dogs to come out looking like her. one person i found was in Florida but its a bit far and has gotti in there blood. which worries me because i want drivey dogs that are athletes. old school razors edge has game dogs closer than you think and i dont want a game dog but i dont want it to loose its edge as a pitbull so i want and old school edge dog. please if anyone knows of a breeder close to maryland please feel free to say so


Post a few pedigrees up of Razor edge dogs with game dogs close up behind them!


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

SECD said:


> Post a few pedigrees up of Razor edge dogs with game dogs close up behind them!


Im sure he means stuff like Chaos kennels Blue Sky and that type of rough end blue dogs that themselves in the late 90's were used as hog dogs in the midewest.

Other than that.. I would have to agree with you no box dogs in a RE ped'd critter. Not that it couldnt happen. People mix everything these days and truth be told they probably should take some game into to it to straighten it out a lil more. jmo


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Ohhhh, got you Hazard. He said game, that only means one thing to me.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Being as I started my way into UKC dogs with the RE you talk about and still have some on my yard I can assure you there is nothing game bred up close in RE lines.


As for you wanting to breed, I am sorry but killing *****, ducks, and rats is nothing that proves breeding quality. I have mutts that can and have done more than that.

If you want to breed do your research and do it right. Don't bred just because you have a dog that can breed. Do to what you have said in your post you are not highly experienced or knowledgeable about this breed and should not be creating dogs. People breeding for reasons like this are why this bred is facing the overpopulation and issues it is.

There is nothing wrong with the RE line be it actual American Bullies or UKC stock, and if you do have original blood I thinks its good you want to stay that way as they are clean UKC show dogs, however like I said killing small animals is no proof of drive or breeding quality so I suggest you get out to events and educate yourself on what a breeding quality dog is.


As Stan stated Against The Wind does have some RE in her lines, but Joy is a very knowledgeable woman and like I said above produces dogs worthy of breeding that have been worked in a variety of competition, she will not breed her dogs to random dog owners that want puppies.


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## nalasdaddy (Oct 9, 2011)

SECD said:


> Post a few pedigrees up of Razor edge dogs with game dogs close up behind them!


if i could find those dogs then i wouldnt have asked this. most of them are gone because the bully world no longer wants that type of dog. short and worthless is what they want. id post my dogs ped but i dont have it on my computer. i just know that thats what dave williams used to create his line before he gotti came into the picture


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

nalasdaddy said:


> if i could find those dogs then i wouldnt have asked this. most of them are gone because the bully world no longer wants that type of dog. short and worthless is what they want. id post my dogs ped but i dont have it on my computer. i just know that thats what dave williams used to create his line before he gotti came into the picture


Obviously you need to do some research on bullys as well , not all bully owners want short and worth less. I suggest you mind your words when refering to dogs many of us on here LOVE. If it isnt your cup of tea fine but there are rules on here about down talking others dogs. There are 5 classes of american bullys only 1 class is short , again do your research please. And if killing rodents is what makes a dog worth something one of my 8 week old BULLYS killed a mole in the front yard lol. Another of my bullys caught a bird as well, I know of others with pet bulls or bulldog breed crosses who have killed possums, raccoons ect , that doesnt make a dog worth more . Would love to see the ped on your dog, The RE dogs Dave wilson used to create the bully were FAR from game bred dogs. He used am staffs and UKC show dogs.


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## nalasdaddy (Oct 9, 2011)

i would never fight her. thsts not what i meant by game


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## nalasdaddy (Oct 9, 2011)

he did use amstaffy and ukc show dogs your right. but he also bought some game dogs and put a lot of hog dogs in there to. im sorry if i offended you, im used to game dog where if i said anything good about a bully i was attacked. you have some good looking bullys and im truely sorry for bashing them. i dont really dislike them i just really didnt want some to come in here and not help me and just bash my dog for being razors edge. i was defending myself before i needed to


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## nalasdaddy (Oct 9, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> Obviously you need to do some research on bullys as well , not all bully owners want short and worth less. I suggest you mind your words when refering to dogs many of us on here LOVE. If it isnt your cup of tea fine but there are rules on here about down talking others dogs. There are 5 classes of american bullys only 1 class is short , again do your research please. And if killing rodents is what makes a dog worth something one of my 8 week old BULLYS killed a mole in the front yard lol. Another of my bullys caught a bird as well, I know of others with pet bulls or bulldog breed crosses who have killed possums, raccoons ect , that doesnt make a dog worth more . Would love to see the ped on your dog, The RE dogs Dave wilson used to create the bully were FAR from game bred dogs. He used am staffs and UKC show dogs.


and no they never ever were game bred dogs. but they had game dogs in the mix because he wanted all the good things you get from a game dog.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Well this isnt game dog here and you wont get bashed for having bullys here, all bully breeds are welcome here regardless of what function they have, working, pet, show ect. Many of us on here have razors edge dogs both newer bully lines and Old school edge dogs. No need to come off so harsh right out the gate  . Post some pics of your dog would love to see her, I love all styles UKC, Bullys are my prefrence but love the ADBA style dogs as well.


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## phrlandy (Apr 13, 2012)

I understand. Where he is comming from a lot of apbt owners hate on bullys for some reason and think they're worthless mutts


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## nalasdaddy (Oct 9, 2011)

my dog is stage trained and im working a training for search and rescue and weight pulling. im not breeding because i want puppies, i want some good looking hunting dog. maybe keep two males or what ever i decide on for my hog dogs. i want good looking hunting dogs and yes i plan on selling the dogs to friends that love my dog for her hog hunting skills, drive and beauty.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

That would be nice to see this breed in search and rescue. My aunt used to own a golden who was trained in search and rescue , she found my cousin when she got lost in the mountains during a family trip we all took , the roads were out and rescue couldnt get up the mountain my uncle took the dog and she found her within a few hours. Such a great area of work you can get into with your dog so rewarding. good luck with that.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> Obviously you need to do some research on bullys as well , not all bully owners want short and worth less. I suggest you mind your words when refering to dogs many of us on here LOVE. If it isnt your cup of tea fine but there are rules on here about down talking others dogs. There are 5 classes of american bullys only 1 class is short , again do your research please. And if killing rodents is what makes a dog worth something one of my 8 week old BULLYS killed a mole in the front yard lol. Another of my bullys caught a bird as well, I know of others with pet bulls or bulldog breed crosses who have killed possums, raccoons ect , that doesnt make a dog worth more . Would love to see the ped on your dog, The RE dogs Dave wilson used to create the bully were FAR from game bred dogs. He used am staffs and UKC show dogs.


thats the truth though both the apbt and bully.

nalas was right, dont get upset about it. the majority DO want fat lazy worthless dogs.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Zohawn you seem to be making a few not so great statements towards bullys lately. When you say the majority do want them fat and lazy where do you get your stats from everyone on here who owns bullys have fit, active dogs so just curious where you get your info from?


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> Zohawn you seem to be making a few not so great statements towards bullys lately. When you say the majority do want them fat and lazy where do you get your stats from *everyone on here who owns bullys have fit, active dogs* so just curious where you get your info from?


i consider the majority of forum users here are more knowledgeable than most. now real life on the other hand...


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I see what hes says. Sadly way to may do want a useless dog which is why you have so many of those "freaks" that people who own good bullies like you Angel are against as well.
There are a lot of great bully people out there and many good breeders, but I would say the majority are still in the phase of looks vrs health.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

First, to the OP, his name is Dave Wilson, not Williams. Second, The only reason people think that all people want are short dogs that lack function is because of hype. There are more people out there than you think that own and produce nice dogs, but stay away from the Internet or social media scenes. I realized that this past weekend when BTK made an excellent post regarding responsible breeding. The entire Bully World is not on the Internet. To the OP, if you want a hog dog I suggest you get a REAL hog dog. The American Bully was not meant to do things like that. They lack the agility compared to a working APBT and they are extremely bracephaylic, which puts a dog at a greater risk for heat stroke and breathing issues. The American Bully is a show dog, created from show dogs. I've broken down several dog's peds that dominate the American Bully gene pool in the Bullies 101 section and went all the way to the beginning with Henry's Imported Richmond and the likes..... there are no game dogs or even game bred dogs anyway up front in the peds. It is my personal opinion that you have no business breeding dogs of any breed. Just what this world needs- more puppies one can give to friends. Bas ass fam. Sarcasm font needed.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> First, to the OP, his name is Dave Wilson, not Williams. Second, The only reason people think that all people want are short dogs that lack function is because of hype. There are more people out there than you think that own and produce nice dogs, but stay away from the Internet or social media scenes. I realized that this past weekend when BTK made an excellent post regarding responsible breeding. The entire Bully World is not on the Internet. To the OP, if you want a hog dog I suggest you get a REAL hog dog. The American Bully was not meant to do things like that. They lack the agility compared to a working APBT and they are extremely bracephaylic, which puts a dog at a greater risk for heat stroke and breathing issues. The American Bully is a show dog, created from show dogs. I've broken down several dog's peds that dominate the American Bully gene pool in the Bullies 101 section and went all the way to the beginning with Henry's Imported Richmond and the likes..... there are no game dogs or even game bred dogs anyway up front in the peds. It is my personal opinion that you have no business breeding dogs of any breed. Just what this world needs- more puppies one can give to friends. Bas ass fam. Sarcasm font needed.


GREAT Post!!! I've heard and seen over the years MAYBE a handful of American Bullies that i could consider "performance Bullies" that fit structurally under the Classic class.. VERY few and theres a reason for it..

The American Bully was created and perfected for two things, companionship and the show ring.. Bred away from the function and ability of the Bulldog towards much like the AST except offering much more mass and different classes under one breed.

What would be the point of a show breed having function outside the show ring? That IS the purpose of the American Bully thus that IS what people should breed towards, that and solid structure and temperament, health...

Angel - Virtually ALL Bullies i run into in the "real world" are overweight, useless animals.. Even here, theres at least 40% overweight, not active enough or out of shape.. AT LEAST 40%.. Why do i say that? The typical member that joins here doesn't show, doesn't work, has a pet that feeds  dog food, takes for a 30 minute walk a day (if that much) and has NO knowledge of anything really except their "pittie wittie wouldn't hurt annnnnnyyyyyttttthhiiinnngggg"..

The members that ARE active everyday are more exception in terms of the American Bully members.. Which even then, not naming anyone, i've seen some  sometimes.. Potentially more genetics than anything but still.. Out of the "APBT group", pretty typical here.. Pet owners, some knowledgeable most not, some "get it" most don't, many show or do sports.. With such the diversity it is to be expected..


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> First, to the OP, his name is Dave Wilson, not Williams. Second, The only reason people think that all people want are short dogs that lack function is because of hype. There are more people out there than you think that own and produce nice dogs, but stay away from the Internet or social media scenes. I realized that this past weekend when BTK made an excellent post regarding responsible breeding. The entire Bully World is not on the Internet. To the OP, if you want a hog dog I suggest you get a REAL hog dog. The American Bully was not meant to do things like that. They lack the agility compared to a working APBT and they are extremely bracephaylic, which puts a dog at a greater risk for heat stroke and breathing issues. The American Bully is a show dog, created from show dogs. I've broken down several dog's peds that dominate the American Bully gene pool in the Bullies 101 section and went all the way to the beginning with Henry's Imported Richmond and the likes..... there are no game dogs or even game bred dogs anyway up front in the peds. It is my personal opinion that you have no business breeding dogs of any breed. Just what this world needs- more puppies one can give to friends. Bas ass fam. Sarcasm font needed.


Exactly, I know a huge majority of the kennels up here and individual owners with bullys and NONE I know of personally have these messed up freaks, you just see them plastered on the boards and people think that is majority. Majority have nice bullys who aren't short an useless.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> Exactly, I know a huge majority of the kennels up here and individual owners with bullys and NONE I know of personally have these messed up freaks, you just see them plastered on the boards and people think that is majority. Majority have nice bullys who aren't short an useless.


Majority is a strong word. I think majority DOES have shit, otherwise the American Bully as a whole wouldn't be as  as it is. I agree that there are some damn good breeders, handlers and dogs that the internet would claim doesn't exist.. Hell, most breeders i have gone through or personally have ties to don't advertise online and are not part of any forum.. For that matter, i'm still "new" to this as up until maybe a year and a half to two years ago, i refused.

However i don't buy it, many of these CH Bullies look like utter  and i'm setting aside ANY personal opinions.. I'm looking strictly at face value, structure.. There ARE a few decent ones and in my opinion there ARE a few damn good looking dogs but it ain't the majority.

I'm sorry if thats upsetting you but it should, if everyone remains blindsided give it about another decade and the AmBully will be just as :snap: as the EB.. Already in the making..


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Just a reminder there is no advertising or promoting of any stud service or breeding on here, talking about the bloodlines is fine , but you need proper permission to respond with a stud available. Just to keep anyone from getting any future warnings or infractions.


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Whats the difference between American Staffordshires and American Bullies from the mid 90s. Both bred for conformation and mellow temperament but only one follows a strict standard. Im very new to the American Bully so please someone elaborate more.


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Other than peds the only diffence I see are the fault of noses other than black and mandating cropped ears( which virtually almost every ch am bully has crops). once again mid 90s folks.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

The 90's bullies were Amstaffs. They were UKC/AKC show dogs. Amstaff noses do not follow the standard anyway since they have blue CH AKC Amstaffs and American Bullies have never mandated cropped ears. 
When the breeders started using mastiff and other breeds for a greater size thats when they became something else. Its very easy to tell when the change happened. You can see in one generation a huge difference in structure that came from mixed breeding.


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

I understand that the abkc doesnt mandate cropped ears for bullies but the very vast majority has them. Where exactly is black considered blue as far as nose not coat conserned . judges preference. obviously red noses are a fault for Am staffs. I thought the am bully was originally a pitter staff. wouldn't they therefore be bandogges bith the mastiff addition though true working bandogge breeders would cringe at that notion


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Deja Vu'.............................  Pretty sure all these questions have been answered before, AmericanPit13, KM :goodpost: read like some posts I threw up myself sometime back on the same issue.. @ 904 of course however Whoppers are bandogs, Land of Giant Pits are bandogs .. etc.. however is there a bandog section in the ADBA or UKC .. NO .. because it is a working term that covers any strain of Working Mastiff and APBT/Bulldog X mastiff mixes. Bandog is as much a function term as "pitbull". Just like everything else as people we come up with our own ideologies to the truth rather than Swallowing those rocks "pride and ego" and gettin over it we like to rehash and debate practicalities that make "us" feel warm and cozy about our artificial life surrounded by cement and silicone. 


There is only ONE bully IMO. The Classic Bully .. everything else is rubbish JMO simply because in my world there is NO use in having a dog that is of NO use.


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## mariah&moose (Apr 7, 2012)

@Angelbaby, do you have a specific breeder you purchase from? Your babies on your banner are so lovely lol  very adorable. I have a 5 month old APBT.... totally cute, but I would love to own a Bully!  They are too cute!


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

904bullys said:


> wouldn't they therefore be bandogges bith the mastiff addition though true working bandogge breeders would cringe at that notion


Bandogges are bred for a purpose, just because something is mixed with mastiff doesn't make it a bandogge.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

mariah&moose said:


> @Angelbaby, do you have a specific breeder you purchase from? Your babies on your banner are so lovely lol  very adorable. I have a 5 month old APBT.... totally cute, but I would love to own a Bully!  They are too cute!


Not really a specific breeder I know of a couple in my province I would buy from and one we had brought up from california. { the breeder in california doesnt breed very often maybe once every year - 2 years and I believe he only has 1 breeding lined up and then he is fixing his girl}. There are a few good breeders I know of though , are you looking right now or just browsing? If you have a location you want to find one in or a price range, there are a few of us on here who can throw some kennel names at you to look up and check out.


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