# So is this the begining of mange?



## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

Ive been to the vet 3 times and sent back home with the same meds. which help untill the meds are finished. obviously this isnt working. i dont know what to do and im not going to go back for the same meds. The areas that have bumps are small bumps which get flakey/dry skin then turn to red bumps. in those arears hair just comes right off. ive lunch baggyed each pinch of hair to take BACK to the vet once again. and the ends of the fur is crusty/scabby stuff....























































anybody have any suggestions? shes never came into contact with any other dogs who have it...it all of a sudden just happend when her period came around. thats done with now and the bumps still remain.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm not 100% sure, but it does sound like Demodex (not sure if this is the correct name) Mange. From what I understand, this type of mange is genetic, and is usually brought on by stress such as a heat cycle or pregnancy. I've not had to deal with this, so when Lisa and/or Deb to chime in here b/c they have more experience/knowledge in this area. I'll see if I can find some sticky threads pertaining to the subject at hand to help you out in the mean time and post them here.

http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/20896-vet-manual.html

You may want to start here, click on the link for the vet manual and try searching around in there. It is a free site, and there's no membership required. This may help you to find out some answers until Lisa or Deb can offer you any guidance. Sorry I'm not much help. Also, I believe Trevor (Nismo) might be able to help since he's a vet tech. Best of luck to you and please keep us posted. I will be keeping an eye on this thread to see what you find out. I hope that I've been of some help to you.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Allergies and other skin conditions cause these symptoms too but to me it doesn't look like Demodex, I could be wrong... 
What is the vet giving you? Prescription wise?
Did he do any skin scrapings to test for yeast or skin bacteria?
Were you given shampoos, ointments, a name for his condition?
Is your boy itching or trying to bite those areas?
My boy use to suffer from allergies where he'd puss up in bumps, those areas then become bald or the hair comes off in your hands, he had a skin infection along with yeast growth.


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok thank you. Ive posted before, and somebody did mention the demodex mange. I was on the way back to the vet at that post. i just dont get how the vet is missing this. which is why i started collecting lil samples. they wont listen when i tell them the meds arent working. im almost wondering if i should try a diff. vet. i dont want to, i really dont, so im hoping these samples will help. Ive been reading on here, on other people dogs and their skin problems/mange and im pretty much trying to figure this out on my own. (with the help of you guys here) since the vet is literaly clueless.

i know they dont specialize in SKIN problems, thats what a dermotologist does but, i can only afford my vet.

but thank you  ill keep looking things up till i take her in...AGAIN. gota wait till next pay check next week. hope her bumps dont get to out of control  this is really stressful. And i think shes starting to scratch at them.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

The vet do a skin scraping to see if its yeast or infection their not limited to that unless their just idiots.

If your guy on any oils fish oil, salmon or flax I would do so, also some yogurt in his meals these things help tho it takes time ...


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

To Duece:

Vet gave me: two antibiotics-Cephalexin 500mg and Prednisolone 5mg all three times i went to the vet.

No skin scrappings were done, she DID how ever have a 4plus yeast infection in the ear that just went haywire during her period, that cleared up beautifully with the ear drops AND those meds. he said her body was unbalanced so that caused the infection....infections gone, bumps still remain.


No shampoos, ointments, or a name for her condition.

the only thing shes JUST NOW started doing is scratching here and there...looks like on those areas on her neck and head.

her fur does just seem to...idk rub off but that could be shedding to? im not sure...


the yeast bacteria sounds like a possibility as well too. You guys help more then my vet. lol


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

Yea he just Q-Tipped her ear for THAT sample thats how he found out it was a yeast infection in the ear, but they did NOTHING about the bumps (they said the bumps should all go away once the ear cleared up) till the two other times i went. they tell me they cant tell what it is...how come i find more then they do? lol :/


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## American_Pride (May 17, 2010)

dont know a lot bout mange, know there 2-3 types. each a lil different but would have hoped your vet would have figured that out after 3 visits, know they dont get cheaper. 
know when my dog was younger, broke out in some bumps, looked almost identical to you're first two pics. never really lost any hair tho. hers was an allergy issue. u changed food, shampoo, change detergent and wash anything your dog may sleep on? u probably already thought of but just throwin out ideas. 
wish i could help out more, may try a lil benadryl??


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Ronnie, thanks for helping out in this area, as I previously posted, I don't have any experience in this area. Only going off what I've read on here and learned thanks to Lisa and Deb and many others, like yourself.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

yes my boy was covered in pussing bumps and almost bald they had him on antibiotics too and he would get better til he was done with the antibiotics ...... and a yeast infection from the depth of heyol. It would just ooze out of his ears and stunk of death.
But yes Deb and Lisa can be of more help. Try adding the oils, maybe a little fresh crushed garlic in her meals every other day, a small clove isn't harmful as long as she doesn't have anemia. Yogurt ( organic with more then 5 cultures) ACV ( Apple Cider Vinegar ) ... and if you have a health store get some Milk Thistle it promotes liver function, helps rid toxins. These are natural things that are beneficial but take time ...
I went with a more natural approach because his problem was systemic ........... 
Also a good Oatmeal & Conditioning Shampoo would help, 

If he gets a bump I put some Calendula tincture on it , dries that sucker right up ... Just a little FYI ....

Smh @ your could have at least sampled the area as my vet did , yea you need a new vet ASAP ! The information you gave above should be useful for when they come pass this thread thats why I asked those questions ...


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

Thank you American Pride., yea after 3 visits i thought something more would have been brought out to the table. they have been great with starr ever sinc she was a baby. treated her urinary tract infect. great. her shots, her puppy worms. everything up untill now, they are letin me down 

the vet suggested an allergy issue, stress issue, something in the air issue. and this and that but never did any scrape testing or anything, just handed over the meds and said "she should be fine" or "this should clear up"
and it does clear up...till the meds are GONE lol

i thought perhaps it would be allergies, i mean, seems to make sense with the weather changing and what not, the only thing ive changed in her doggy life is food. went from Beniful to Old yeller, but now im putting her BACK on beniful, because i thought maybe the food was causing this. Ok well and yes i have changed shampoo, went from johnson and johnson to a puppy hypo-allergenic shampoo. its called Naturally Green Tropiclean.
was guna go right back to the other tho. im trying to back track.
she never really sleeps on her bed anymore, she sleeps on the floor or sometimes on my bed with me.


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## American_Pride (May 17, 2010)

u very welcome. if she back on the same food in which she didnt have any problems on and she still having the bumps, can probably check that off the list. like someone said a oatmeal and conditioning shampoo is a good choice for some dogs with skin allergy issues, course ur hypo-allergenic shampoo may be just as good? 
lil benadryl could help with the itching, and never know, may clear it right up. will have 2 look up correct dosage, cant remember off top of my head....


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## American_Pride (May 17, 2010)

should be safe at 0.5mg - 1mg/pound. so if ur dog bout 40lbs wouldnt give her no more than 40mg. can always caution on the low side, cant remember the dosage of each pill, maybe 40mg?? but pretty sure my girl just got one at a time, can be given every 8 hours. 
hope you get it beat and your girl get feelin better


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

yea this shampoo i got says at the top Natural Oatmeal Enriched. Today after trying to clean up some of the bumps with rubbing alcohol and gently getting the hair/crusties off those spots, i gave her a bath...the "swelling" of the bumps did go down, but theyll go back up by moring, like always.

i forgot to mention about the benadryl, i am wanting to go out and buy that, thanks on the amount info i should give, i wrote that down.

shes a big girl, weighs about 85 pounds. and shes not fat thats whats crazy, shes very strong, i had her pull me on a sled during the winter lol, but yea shes well over 40 pounds. and shes 9 months old.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

I would still double check the food. Beneful and Old Yeller have corn as one of the main ingredients, and if it is a food allergy, you need to eliminate any foods containing corn or wheat in them. You might check into a grain-free product something like a beef and rice, chicken and rice, or lamb and rice. I'm not sure what your financial standpoint is for food expenses, but you may check out Dog Food: All Natural, High Quality, Holistic Pet Food. Dog Foods, Cat Foods, Dog Biscuits They've got awesome food, and it doesn't have corn in the ingredients list at all. They also have a grain-free formula, and one of the types they have is salmon! I found it to be a wonderful food and had great results with all the dogs I fed it to. You may call around to local feed stores and boarding kennels/grooming salons that retail food and see if they carry Canidae. If not, you can also check the website and see if one of the vendors on their site will deliver to your house at a price you can afford. Good luck in your endeavors and again, please keep us posted.


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## American_Pride (May 17, 2010)

lol, yea my girl used to pull my kid in the wagon.... ah well was just using 40 as an example. but yea, she sound like a big girl. u staying on top of it, hope all works out


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

well crap, ive already started to mix the beneful with the old yeller to get her back on it...ummm, should i just finish the bag then change again to the foods suggested? i feel bad switchin around but i gota start tryin things out. Shes been on beneful since she was a small pup (sorry if i already stated that, cant remember) and shes never gotten the bumps before. it all kinda started at the same time as when she started going into her first heat AND the change in food.

sorry for all the questions, i cant ask it at the vet cuz they just kinda disregaurd what im saying. i am taking notes and taking all this into action as i get advice, you all have been a great help.


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## American_Pride (May 17, 2010)

you are very fine, is how we all learn. anyways, didnt wanna mention the food if she was doing okay on it before. but she is very right bout the food, plus some allergy problems dont show up till later. 
there is a lot of good info on here, under health and nutrition. there a link to a dog food rating site and many other things pretaining to providing a healthy diet to your dog. 
and just cuz it a name brand dog food, ie Purina, IAMS, Science diet ext.... doesnt mean it good


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

Yea I've been reading on here bout types of food and popular name brands don't mean its the best. Well from here, ill get the benedryl, search for beter dog food, and make it to the vet next week. If bumps get worse, or something improves, ill keep up with the updates. Ill also post what the Vet says. And gives me. Thank you guys again, ur smarter than my vet! Lol


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## christina60546 (May 6, 2010)

My dog has mange (again) and he doesn't have any bumps like that he just has red flaky skin and is loosing hair. The vet prescribed Ivermectin and a shampoo called GlenHaven P2/S, it's like a really really good deep clean for their skin and coat, you lather it in and have them sit for 10 minutes, and he loves it. " Indications: Topical treatment of seborrhea complex and conditions where a degreasing follice-flushing, keratolytic shampoo may be beneficial" Maybe ask your vet about the shampoo and it might help if they THINK its mange...?


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Starrsmoma said:


> well crap, ive already started to mix the beneful with the old yeller to get her back on it...ummm, should i just finish the bag then change again to the foods suggested? i feel bad switchin around but i gota start tryin things out. Shes been on beneful since she was a small pup (sorry if i already stated that, cant remember) and shes never gotten the bumps before. it all kinda started at the same time as when she started going into her first heat AND the change in food.
> 
> sorry for all the questions, i cant ask it at the vet cuz they just kinda disregaurd what im saying. i am taking notes and taking all this into action as i get advice, you all have been a great help.


You should definitely switch to a grain free. It sounds like she might be developing food sensitivities. A lot of vets (and doctors for that matter) don't believe in certain food sensitivities and that may be why they aren't mentioning it, plus its difficult to test for (so I was told by a vet at one point).

Our dog Brutus used to get yeast infections in his skin all the time. He would itch it until it started oozing and would get all crusty. All they ever did was prescribe antibiotics, which seems to be their answer for everything.

Additionally, Loki was fine on Beneful until about 5 or 6 months when he started vomiting about 5-10 times a day. Vets wanted to perform exploratory surgery but I opted for a diet change and am so happy I did! We feed Taste of the Wild and the dogs love it and it really makes them look amazing. Plus no more skin problems or vomiting!


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok, go it  I'm guna deff. Try the diff. Food, and some benedryl. Trying to save on going back to the vet. If bumps don't go away, then it looks like ill have to go.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I don't mean to steal your thunder American pride, but as a long time battler with allergies... Benadryl only serves as a sedative for dogs, it does not ease the discomfort nor take away any inflamation. Dogs do not use this particular people medicine like we do as humans. Ronnie is wonderful with trouble shooting allergies the natural way. I've done the vet approach and holistic. 

Get back for a scrape to see if they can't identify it under the microscope... if they can't identify it as mange (which we can help you cure for pennies on the dollar in comparison to what the vet charges). Then we can realistically deduce it to an actual allergy, and we can help you hop, skip, or jump over the vets expenses that they use "to see if it will work". E.I. we can help you find the RIGHT food for your dog, as well as help you trouble shoot on removing allergens within your dogs daily life, tell you the vet products that work, and help you find the natural approach.


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

Alright. I did wana take the lil samples I've been gathering into the vet so they can see what I'm actually talking about. They actually said that they couldn't really see any of the bumps...which I kept pointing out and they were like yeaaa can't really see them. The nurse AND doc were on the friggen floor with my dog. I'm like are u serious??? RIGHT THERE! Lol 

So when I gave her a bath with her oatmeal shampoo yesterday and dabbed the bumps with alcohol, this morning I noticed the swelling of them went down, but still visible. They seem to go away after I clean the area of the bump, like get the scabby or crusty dry skin and fur off. But then come right back in a diff. Spot. Should I just leave them alone? Could I be spreading it?


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

Alright. I did wana take the lil samples I've been gathering into the vet so they can see what I'm actually talking about. They actually said that they couldn't really see any of the bumps...which I kept pointing out and they were like yeaaa can't really see them. The nurse AND doc were on the friggen floor with my dog. I'm like are u serious??? RIGHT THERE! Lol 

So when I gave her a bath with her oatmeal shampoo yesterday and dabbed the bumps with alcohol, this morning I noticed the swelling of them went down, but still visible. They seem to go away after I clean the area of the bump, like get the scabby or crusty dry skin and fur off. But then come right back in a diff. Spot. Should I just leave them alone? Could I be spreading it?


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## Abel92701 (Jan 26, 2009)

*hope this helps*

Demodex & Demodetic Mange:
Mange is a parasitic skin disease caused by microscopic mites. Two different mange mites cause skin disease in dogs. One lives just under the surface of the skin ,while the other resides in the hair follicles. Although both mites share some similar characteristics, there are also important differences. It is important not to confuse the two types of mange because they have different causes, treatments, and prognoses.

Demodectic mange, sometimes just called "demodex", is the most common form of mange in dogs. It is caused by the demodectic mange mite, a parasite which lives in the hair follicles of affected dogs. Under the microscope, this mite appears shaped like an alligator with 8 legs. All dogs (and many humans) have a few of these mites on their skin. As long as the body's immune system is functioning, these mites cause no harm.
Demodectic mange most often occurs when a dog has an immature immune system, allowing the mites to grow rapidly. Therefore, this disease occurs primarily in dogs less than 12-18 months of age. In most cases, as a dog matures, the immune system also matures. Adult dogs which have the disease usually have defective immune systems. Since the mite is found on virtually all dogs, exposure of a normal dog to one with demodectic mange is not dangerous.

Development of the immune system is under genetic control. Thus, an affected dog usually comes from a litter containing other affected puppies. Owners of litter mates should be put on the alert to watch for it. Because the disease, or more appropriately, the weak immune system, can be due to a hereditary properties...affected dogs (case-by-case) should usually not be bred. Also, parents of the affected dog should be evaluated for the possibilty of them producing a hereditarily weak immune system, and then owners and their vets need to determine whether that dog should be bred ever again. In most cases, those dogs should not be bred.
Surprisingly, a dog with demodectic mange does not itch severely, even though it loses hair in patches. Areas of bare skin will be seen. The hair loss usually begins on the face, especially around the eyes. When there are only a few patches of hair loss, it is termed localized demodectic mange. If the disease spreads to many areas of the skin, it becomes generalized demodectic mange.

The small, localized form is usually treated with topical medication. The generalized form is usually INEFFECTIVELY treated with shampoo therapy and a special "dip". The best and most effective way to treat this is a oral dose of a chemical called "Ivermectin." This chemical, typically used in cattle and swine to treat several types of worms and mites also serves as probably the best solution to the Demodetic problem. Many Vets don't know about this solution and if they do, Aren't allowed to use it. In our extensive experience...this is the best solution for an immune system that cannot fight off Demo. *You should always allow a growing dog ample time to develop their immune system before you use a toxic chemical such as Ivermectin. If they can fight it, you know you will have a healthy dog with strong immunities. It also works well against Heart Worm infection. Shampooing with special cleansing shampoos helps to flush out the hair follicles as well.

For dogs with generalized demodectic mange, secondary skin infections may represent a complicating factor requiring antibiotic therapy. Dogs with skin infections have very red, inflamed skin. This is the source of the term "red mange."

Treatment of the localized form is generally successful. Treatment of the generalized form is also usually successful. However, if the immune system is defective, neither the mites nor the infection may respond to treatment.

Because the immune system does not mature until 12-18 months of age, a dog with demodectic mange may have relapses until that age. It is important for re-treatment to begin promptly to minimize the possibility of developing uncontrollable problems . Demodectic mange may also occur in very old dogs because function of the immune system often declines with age. Dogs who have immune suppression due to illness or medication are also candidates for demodectic mange.


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

That was a great sorce of info. Thank you. So which would be the appropriate thing to do, take her in or ride it out because she's only 9 months. Somethings telling me to just take her in, then all questions mite finally be answered. I can take my samples, and suggest what you guys have said about the demodex and the food allergies.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

You can take the samples in but it would be better if they take the samples fresh from the site ...... honestly annoyed they didn't do this the first time and your even having to go through this mess for what a 4th time .... You want to know once and for all what it is so that you can deal with it accordingly, mange and allergies you can take different approaches on ......


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

You're right. even though this is extremely stressful, and having to go back AGAIN is rediculous, im neer guna get 100% ...even 99% sure answers. i know they mite not be able to do much with the old samps. but maybe at least they can see what im talking about with the scabby/crusty stuff at the ends of the fur folicals, you know what I mean? I explained that to them before (like everything else lol) but they didnt do much with that info. Here are pics from today (june 3) Bumps swells have gone down, but still remain. now mainly on the middle of her back and the nap of her neck.









this is a pic of the circlular patch that lost a lil hair. it really sticks out because of the hair around it. I moved the hair out of the way so maybe you guys can see a lil better.









heres the top of her head again, this area and the nap of the neck is where she gets the bumps the MOST. But im not so sure thats how it will remain, like i said they are popin up all over her back.


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## American_Pride (May 17, 2010)

starsmoma - not so sure you would be spreading it, but without knowing exactly what it is cant say for certain. def can see them clear as day in ur pics. would be best if you and your vet can find the source of the problem, and then will be able to treat it properly. keep on em and good luck

Indigo - hey partner. aint no thunder to steal. am not a vet, not a doc, dont think i'm some dog man. hell, wouldnt even say im a smart man considering that the things i do know dont compare to the many things in this world i know nothing about. 
the only reason i chimed in is because the bumps on her dog resemble the same thing i went thru with my dog. course may be something completely different, but sounds more long the lines of allergies and not mange.
now, i would never give anyone any advise that would harm their dog. and if i do not know what im talking about, i keep my mouth shut. granted benadryl wasnt designed for animals, however if it is allergy related it WILL provide some relief for the dog and will NOT do any harm. 
if the dog is constantly scratching, will eventually break skin, can cause infections and other problems on top of what she is already dealing with. 
is why i brought up allergies, asked bout food, shampoo, and anything that might be the actual cause. can be a challenge, kinda have to go thru a process of elimination. No, benadryl is not a fix, but if my past experience can help the lady out and provide her dog a little relief until her or her vet can determine the actual cause, great. if not, NO harm done. my vet where i got the whole benadryl thing from anyways, worked good for my dog. 
dogs dont drive or operate heavy equipment, think she can deal with a lil drowsiness


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

Here a lil update, starr has started scratch her other ear like she did with the one that got a yeast infection in it. The ear she's messin with now is startin to get crusty and she's leavin markes in her ear from scratching so much. Thank god I still have eardrops from her other ear if this one gets to that point. I'm still taking her to the vet next fri. (That's when I get paid) in case anybodys like "why aren't u taking her in??"


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

bumps are geting worse lil by lil. losing more hair on the circles. Now, shes lost an appetite, which isnt like her at all. Didnt eat her dinner last night, wouldnt touch it this morning, nor dinner today. (dont know if that has anything to do with anything) She always chows right in. Friday is new vet day. That cant get here soon enough


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

That doesn't look like demodex mange. She looks a bit overweight. How much do you feed her and how often? I think it might be allergies to her food or something in the environment.


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## Starrsmoma (Apr 20, 2010)

last time i was at the vet they said she weighed 85 pounds. i only feed her twice a day. small/normal sized bowl. once in the AM before work (one scoop). Once in the PM after work (one scoop). Her mother and father were both abnormaly large dogs. and she was a big fatty pup when she was a baby. Only pup from her litter.


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## hal3ynicol3 (May 30, 2015)

Hey I hope you still use this my Dog has the exact same scabies he doesn't otch them and I can pull them out and it doesn't hurt but he loses hair he a
So had the big bumps which were Hives I gave him benadryl and those went away but the little scabbies I just noticed please help


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