# Couple questions about DA, etc.



## jec1521 (Jul 31, 2012)

Hey guys,

I adopted a "pit mix" a few months back and she has been great, even with my other dog. Since I "did my homework" and educated myself on the breed before I got her, I know that DA is a serious, real, and prominent part of the APBT, and I take every precaution against it. 

Now, a couple of thoughts and questions have came up to me while having this dog, and I'm hoping to have an honest discussion with you guys.

1. Every breed of dog has the ability to be DA. It's not even all that uncommon to see other dogs (even toy sized breeds) be aggressive towards other dogs and animals. Now, I understand the history of the APBT, but there are many APBTs out there that are fine with other dogs. This brings me to my main question: Are APBT owners more cautious about DA than any other breed owner? 

2. If APBT owners ARE overly cautious, why? Is it because of the strength of the breed and the damage that it can do? Is it because of BSL? Maybe both?

3. Can DA be trained out of other breeds? I always read people here saying you cannot train DA out of the APBT. If you can train DA out of other breeds, who's to say you cannot train DA out of an APBT with a standard case of DA that any breed can have? I understand that there are APBT's out there that will attack any dog with no provocation. Those dogs have the "fighting" trait in them that was bred and I could see not being able to train out. But, an APBT with a "standard" case of DA, why is it not trainable? I guess my main question is, Is DA in the APBT different than in any other breed? 


I hope I didn't ramble too much. Keep in mind I'm just a normal guy with not much, if any, knowledge on dog breeding or anything like that. I'm just trying to learn.

What do you guys think?


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

I think we're all cautious for different reasons. Whether it's the damage your dog will do or the legal consequences of it or just because it gets old dealing with super DA dog... any reason is sufficient to be overly cautious.

2/3 of the pits I have or do own are just a nightmare around other dogs. Have a little 45 pound pit -- which is actually about normal of an APBT -- that is hell to deal with. On the other hand, since we don't have leash laws down here, I don't even put my other pit on a leash. 

While my larger pit is hell on wheels in a fight, he need provocation or something else to get him jacked up. In reality, I could never take them for walks if both dogs had the disposition of my smaller one. 

While heart and gameness and pride bla, bla, bla are all part of reasons we love the breed, but DA drives me a little crazy. It's very hard to deal with. I've never been able to change it without neutering or spaying the dog. That actually makes a massive difference, but short of that, I have nothing to suggest.

I spray him in the face with rubbing alcohol to make him top jerking me down the street, but that's just curbs his behavior, doesn't change his disposition.


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## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm my knowledgeable on the other aspects as others are here who I'm sure will answer your questions accordingly. I personally am cautious because of my DA dog. She's not pit mix or pure. She's a mutt blue heeler lab but still DA. Of a dog so mic as gets in nose reach she will attack. I'm cautious because I don't want people to be afraid of her. She is the most loving dog. Just doesn't like other dogs. I don't like the fighting and I don't like having to separate her and have her potentially hurt someone else's dog who was wanting to say hi or play. She has jumped from a moving car to go after a dog before. One I don't like the thought of my dog being taken away from my family because of it and if a child was nearby I would hate for them to accidentally get in the middle. I also don't want her to pick a fight with a dog bigger than her. That would kill me. So I take necessary precautions. She is leashed outside and I have an air soft gun to keep dogs out of our yard. It's not something we can train out of her. She just does it.

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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

jec1521 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I adopted a "pit mix" a few months back and she has been great, even with my other dog. Since I "did my homework" and educated myself on the breed before I got her, I know that DA is a serious, real, and prominent part of the APBT, and I take every precaution against it.
> 
> ...


DA CANNOT BE CURED. Having them fixed might help but it shouldn't be used as an expected cure all. APBT owners and pit bull type dog owners must be more cautious because these dogs were bred for the DA trait whereas other dog breeds were not. A real APBT will have DA tendencies and if an individual cannot handle it then these dogs are not for them. DA isn't a bad trait it's like a retriever wanting to retrieve. There are people who don't understand the difference between HA and DA. Those are people I wouldn't expect much dog knowledge from and people who should never own any bulldog.


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

hotchkiss said:


> I spray him in the face with rubbing alcohol to make him top jerking me down the street, but that's just curbs his behavior, doesn't change his disposition.


Wow really. Maybe you should try training him instead. You cannot cure DA but as an owner it is your job to manage it. Spraying your dog in the face with rubbing alcohol is just lazy as hell.


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## Celly_Cells_Kenya (Aug 27, 2012)

hotchkiss said:


> I spray him in the face with rubbing alcohol to make him top jerking me down the street, but that's just curbs his behavior, doesn't change his disposition.


im sorry to say this but this is horrible advice to mention. why in lords name would you spray rubbing alcohol in your dogs face? get a prong collar and establish your role in your pack please....

smh


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

WTF seriously? Spray it in the face with alcohol? That's the most ridiculous crap I've heard all day. Dog aggression can not be cured but it can definitely be managed with good training. My dog is DA as well and I have absolutely no problem walking him down the street in a heel position, even if other dogs are barking, and he also does dock diving when he is around a ton of other dogs all day long. He has never once gone after another dog at an event. 

To the OP there are a lot of rescues and mixed bred dogs being called pit bulls who actually have no APBT in them at all. A lot of the times people talk about their "pits" not being DA is because they're not APBTs at all and do not carry the same traits and genetics as the real APBTs who lineage traces back to box dogs.


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## TheIncredibleSocks (Sep 8, 2012)

First off,you adopted him,chances are hes just a mutt and doesn't have any APBT blood in him,to the person who sprays their dog with alcohol,that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in weeks,train him, 



 ,I trained my pup not to pull not sprayed her in the face.And DA is not curable,but it is managable.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

hotchkiss said:


> I think we're all cautious for different reasons. Whether it's the damage your dog will do or the legal consequences of it or just because it gets old dealing with super DA dog... any reason is sufficient to be overly cautious.
> 
> 2/3 of the pits I have or do own are just a nightmare around other dogs. Have a little 45 pound pit -- which is actually about normal of an APBT -- that is hell to deal with. On the other hand, since we don't have leash laws down here, I don't even put my other pit on a leash.
> 
> ...


Honestly this just sounds like you don't know much about these dogs and how to properly train them. And neutering will NOT stop dog aggression from setting in. I have a 4 year old male who is neutered and is still very DA. He's ok with puppies but he can never "play" with older dogs. That being said, I have done extensive training with this dog and we actively compete in dock diving where he is out with tons of other barking dogs all day. All I have to do is put him in a down stay and he doesn't move until I say so. I also do weight pull training with him, he is incredibly strong and has no problem pulling my weight but he will NOT pull on a walk if he's put in heel position. He's also working on training to be a service dog. Right now were working on walking through crowded stores and parking lots and I have had absolutely no issues what so ever. The key is training, and spraying a dog in the face is not training by any means. If you think DA is hell and a pain to deal with then you might want to think about owning a different breed.


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

Pits have been in my family for five generations. Without a doubt, I know pits. Shock collars and biting collars and all those garbage products have little to no use.

What's a shock collar going to you if your dog gets in a fight? There is a very good reason I carry rubbing alcohol with me every morning I exercise my dogs, it's the most humane means of breaking up a fight.

...And if I hear someone start talking about breaking sticks, I'm going to stick one in someone's eye. I'd bet my pit against your cur that not a single person in here, especially the women, knows how to use one let alone has ever used one. Read someone earlier write, "and you should always have a break stick in your back pocket." 

What a brilliant way to get someone seriously hurt. Genius idea, suggest these first timers shove their hand in the middle of a fight between a pit and a mutt. BRILLIANT.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Breaksticks are much more humane and manageable that feeling rubbing alcohol!! That's asinine thinking that safe for your dog. I have had 2 incidents of off leash dogs charging and wnded up needing a breakstick and was able to keep my dog and their safe by using and having one close. 

As to the OP the reason people who own dog that will be lumped into a label like Pit Bull is because the little aggressive yappy dog will not be killed for being aggressive. A pit bull type dog will be. As owners you need to respect some people and plenty of BSL think your dog is a killer. That's why I take extra precautions.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Lol who said anything about shock collars, I sure didn't and I've never had to use one. Every post you make shows more and more that you don't know what your doing? A break stick is a good way to get someone hurt? Really? If you think that then you obviously have no clue what your talking about and how to properly use one. Instead of flipping out and struggling trying to pull apart dogs, if a break stick is handy you wil be able to part the dogs with outh the risk out tearing them up as you pull on them. And the fact that you keep referring to them as Pits says a lot as well. Are you saying you've had 5 generations of "pit bull" looking shelter dogs or are you talking about APBTs? And what bloodline are your dogs?


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

hotchkiss said:


> Pits have been in my family for five generations. Without a doubt, I know pits. Shock collars and biting collars and all those garbage products have little to no use.
> 
> What's a shock collar going to you if your dog gets in a fight? There is a very good reason I carry rubbing alcohol with me every morning I exercise my dogs, it's the most humane means of breaking up a fight.
> 
> ...


You know after reading through your last thread and some of your other posts it's not hard to see what the problem is. You seem to open your mouth when you know absolutely nothing about the topic. You're a poser just a pretender with dogs you have little knowledge of. In fact until I see a ped I'm going to call them mutts and until you speak of something that's not total and utter bs I'm going to call you an Idiot. 
Answer me this though how does using a breakstick get people hurt?? The dog is on the other dog and he's holding on and then you come in with the breakstick and break them up. That's all that should happen. If anything else happens then it's your fault for not being able to handle the situation. I really hope you don't own APBTs. I really do. If so then you have a lot of knowledge to catch up on regardless of how many generations of dogs were in your family. You can't even leash walk a dog. That's ridiculous.


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## Celly_Cells_Kenya (Aug 27, 2012)

boy do i love idiot posters who shit from their mouth.....



hotchkiss said:


> Pits have been in my family for five generations. Without a doubt, I know pits. Shock collars and biting collars and all those garbage products have little to no use.
> 
> What's a shock collar going to you if your dog gets in a fight? There is a very good reason I carry rubbing alcohol with me every morning I exercise my dogs, it's the most humane means of breaking up a fight.
> 
> ...


1st, im glad youve had these dogs for 5 gens... :clap: but that doesnt mean shit... if anything that could simply mean that you have only been taught rediculous forms of training such as your running alcohol method.

2nd, ur dog shouldnt be getting in fights if you have control of them! what are u doing while they are walking? i mean jesus christ get control of your mutt. and i said use a prong collar not a shock collar. FOR TRAINING. train your dog to walk correctly, by using a prong collar and poppin the collar when they are not walking correctly. HELLO! thats a method used to train dogs to walk properly. hence when a dog is trained to walk correctly, and ignor other dogs, u wont get into a scrap and have to break up a fight... its call preventative maintenance.

and how is rubbin alcohol humane?! that breaks up a fight?! bullshit! im sorry but your wrong here. if you ask anyone who has dealt with a serious fight with these dogs, its not going to "sidetrack" them from the need to win that fight. to me it just sounds like your a trigger happy bafoon letting your dogs run loose.

and last, id like to add, that i carry a breakstick, and i am female. i know how to use it and have used it to break up a gs fight at a police bitework training. no one is telling new owners to go out and use a breakstick without looking into it and educating them on how to properly use them. so get off your "oh i have had them for 5 gens" high horse and give useful advice to ppl instead of passing on your own retarded methods. because ur methods are far from brilliant, let me tell u.



kg420 said:


> I have done extensive training with this dog and we actively compete in dock diving where he is out with tons of other barking dogs all day. All I have to do is put him in a down stay and he doesn't move until I say so. I also do weight pull training with him, he is incredibly strong and has no problem pulling my weight but he will NOT pull on a walk if he's put in heel position.


perfect example of how your dog should act! :thumbsup::thumbsup:



rabbit said:


> You know after reading through your last thread and some of your other posts it's not hard to see what the problem is. You seem to open your mouth when you know absolutely nothing about the topic. You're a poser just a pretender with dogs you have little knowledge of. In fact until I see a ped I'm going to call them mutts and until you speak of something that's not total and utter bs I'm going to call you an Idiot.
> Answer me this though how does using a breakstick get people hurt?? The dog is on the other dog and he's holding on and then you come in with the breakstick and break them up. That's all that should happen. If anything else happens then it's your fault for not being able to handle the situation. I really hope you don't own APBTs. I really do. If so then you have a lot of knowledge to catch up on regardless of how many generations of dogs were in your family. You can't even leash walk a dog. That's ridiculous.


:cheers: :thumbsup:


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

Ok, so let me get this right, it's OK for you to suggest someone bear mace the neighbor's dog if it approaches you while you're walking, (bear mace having insanely toxic chemicals that can cause permanent damage to the eyes and nasal cavity) but rubbing alcohol (which is completely innocuous, just burns for a while) is inhumane? 

As far as "serious pit fights," how serious does it need to be? Broken bones? Cuts from ear hole to nose hole with the top lip hanging below the bottom? A missing eye? All that can happen in less than a minute.

So while you're running around behind the dogs while they fight at 100 miles per hour, waiting for one to quit enough so the other can pin him down, the damage is done. You dump rubbing alcohol on their heads the moment it gets started and you prevent alot of damage. 

My wife and her Dad used to swear by break sticks, but now my wife does the same thing I do. Meanwhile, her dad's running around like an idiot trying to get position so he can jam that damn thing in the top dog's mouth and make a teeth shattering twist... and all he's doing is wasting time. 

On the other hand, it's not nearly as cool to throw a bottle of rubbing alcohol in your day pack as it is to tell someone why you have an antler hanging out of your back pocket, (yea, I know, they don't use antlers nor sticks anymore) "it's cuz I have a pit bull and they're super bad ass and their jaws lock like a vice when they fight; (please don't waste your time telling me that their jaws don't really lock) it's like totally wicked man, so I have this horn so I can breakup a fight" (and yes, I know an antler isn't a horn).

You can be cool and waste time which increases the odds of serious injury, or you can be practical. In my book, cool is a waste of time, literally.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Heck yea I'd rather spray a loose dog then have my dog taken away because some dumb ass can't follow leash laws. That's protecting our dogs. It's not like I'm macing my own dog cause I can't control it. You can point fingers at others and dance around the issue all you want but its clear that you have no clue what your talking about once again. How bout instead of dumping alcohol in your dogs face, try spending time with it, train it. Teach it proper leash manners and the "leave it" command. You shouldn't have to carry around alcohol to control you dog on a walk.


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## Celly_Cells_Kenya (Aug 27, 2012)

hotchkiss said:


> Ok, so let me get this right, it's OK for you to suggest someone bear mace the neighbor's dog if it approaches you while you're walking, (bear mace having insanely toxic chemicals that can cause permanent damage to the eyes and nasal cavity) but rubbing alcohol (which is completely innocuous, just burns for a while) is inhumane?
> 
> As far as "serious pit fights," how serious does it need to be? Broken bones? Cuts from ear hole to nose hole with the top lip hanging below the bottom? A missing eye? All that can happen in less than a minute.
> 
> ...


 ur sense of sarcasm is really tiring. really wat it comes down to here, is training ur dogs and having control of them at all times. no i dont sit there and brag about a goddamn break stick in my pocket but then again, i dont sit here and brag i have 5 generations that own "pits" as u have put it.

get a grip of yourself. u think anyone wants to listen to anyone that is forces their methods and opinions on them? these new owners are looking for guidance and ur sitting here telling them to dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol on their dog? ur an idiot! im pretty sure that animal control wouldnt see that as humane. so go ahead, dump some RA on these dogs, and get ur pet taken to a shelter, and put down, while all the while u could have kept ur dog on a lead, or trained them t focus on YOU THE PACK LEADER vs focuses on other dogs running around to prevent any fight from starting.


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## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

> get a grip of yourself. u think anyone wants to listen to anyone that is forces their methods and opinions on them? these new owners are looking for guidance and ur sitting here telling them to dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol on their dog? ur an idiot! im pretty sure that animal control wouldnt see that as humane. so go ahead, dump some RA on these dogs, and get ur pet taken to a shelter, and put down, while all the while u could have kept ur dog on a lead, or trained them t focus on YOU THE PACK LEADER vs focuses on other dogs running around to prevent any fight from starting.


Good post! I agree!

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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

Rubbing alcohol the saftest way to break-up a fight. It's non-toxic (unlike mace) and safer than a break stick for both the person involved and the dog's teeth.

As for having complete control of your dog when you walk it, that's for another thread. This one started off about DA, became whether or not it's curable and evolved into what precautions you can take if a fight breaks out.


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

hotchkiss said:


> Rubbing alcohol the saftest way to break-up a fight. It's non-toxic (unlike mace) and safer than a break stick for both the person involved and the dog's teeth.
> 
> As for having complete control of your dog when you walk it, that's for another thread. This one started off about DA, became whether or not it's curable and evolved into what precautions you can take if a fight breaks out.


No one in the right mind is going to use rubbing alcohol on their dogs in a fight or if it pulls. Anyone who does so should not be allowed to own an animal. Your insistence on the usage of rubbing alcohol spells out a lot about your character. Using mace to protect yourself and your pets is different then just spraying your dog in the face. It actually makes sense that you can't comprehend the difference though and I don't expect you to. I just hope that people new to pit type dogs are not led astray by your poor advise.


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## gh32 (Dec 22, 2007)

jec1521 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I adopted a "pit mix" a few months back and she has been great, even with my other dog. Since I "did my homework" and educated myself on the breed before I got her, I know that DA is a serious, real, and prominent part of the APBT, and I take every precaution against it.
> 
> ...


 Question #1 Yes,several breeds are DA,especially at times,but they were not bred for the last 100 plus years to fight dogs.So it is a different situation.Some APBT's are alright around other dogs,there are cold dogs out there,but always assume an APBT to be DA and it won't catch you off guard.Also,there's lots of dogs out there being refered to as a APBT,when in reality it is not. APBT owners need to be alot more cautious because with most breeds if it bites another dog,no problem.An APBT gets another dog,it can very well be PTS.Not fair but that's the way it is.
Question #2. APBT owners need to be overly cautious because,yes the APBT can do pretty serious damage when it wants to,as I mentioned the dog could be taken away and PTS,and last but not least some innocent people have faced dog fighting charges for no reason at all. Question #3. No,IMHO it is not trainable,manageable but not trainable.The whole "it's all in how you raise them" is nonsense. These dogs were bred for a very,very long time to fight,it's silly to think we can just scold them and they loose that drive to do what they are bred to do. With all that said,you only have a mix,and honestly good chance the APBT part of it is probably a bully or something,so the drive may not be the anyway,but watch out for it in case it is. Also,I don't know how old your dog is but the "turn on" age varies but a dog may be puppish at a year old and by a few weeks or months later be on fire and rearing to go.Just because it's non DA at one point in life don't mean it will stay that way. What's the other part of the mix? Anyway,good luck with your dog.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

jec1521 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I adopted a "pit mix" a few months back and she has been great, even with my other dog. Since I "did my homework" and educated myself on the breed before I got her, I know that DA is a serious, real, and prominent part of the APBT, and I take every precaution against it.
> 
> ...


I will reply to original OP post first since the thread has gone way off coarse.
First, YES the DA as you call it, "I prefer combat drive CD" is different in the apbt than most any other breed. It has been bred in them for hundreds of years. And this DA can not be trained out of them, but it can be managed.
There is a saying that has been quoted many times on this and other sites, and that is "never trust an APBT not to fight". I think most owners of this breed should pin it to their forehead! But lets face it, most of the so called "pit bulls" you see out there are usually mixes, or mutts so the DA in these animals are most likely not much different than any other breed.
I personally have not seen fixing your dog work on DA, but I guess it might in some.
I have been around these dogs for many decades also, and I learned "some times the hard way" that they are all individuals and some "turn on" a lot earlier than others.

And as far as tools to use to train, or brake up a fight. Now this is only from my experience.
1. A training or prong collar work really well as long as you have it connected to a back up collar in case a link comes loose.
First let me say, accidents can happen from time to time. It does not mean a person is irresponsible if walking their dog they are suddenly attacked by a loose dog. Or if you have a multiple dogs, accident can also happen. So lets not call some one a bad owner simply because of an accident!

2. A break stick, just like any other tool works fantastic in the right situation. 
It does not work well if one of the dogs is a mutt or of another breed and the owner isn't able to hold their dog. You will get bit!
And as a side note; if both dogs are apbt's you have plenty of time to separate them before to much damage happens. The trick is to stay calm, and even though it looks disturbing don't panic! 
I have never tried rubbing alcohol to stop a confrontation from happening. And I have my doubts it would work on "working class" bull dogs, but IDK.
I do not understand why everyone is freaking out over it. If it works on a loose charging dog, or causes the dogs to let loose, then I do not find it inhumane at all. If it works for you, then that is great, it is much better than most of the untrained ways of trying to break up a fight, kicking, punching, water hose down the back of the throat, among other more fatal ways.
Oh and by the way, breaking sticks don't shatter teeth "as stated earlier" if used properly and is made out of wood or plastic. 
The bottom line is, DON'T get an APBT if they are going to be around other dogs, and then you want to try to break them by attempting to train out hundreds of years of combat drive. Just not smart!


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

rabbit said:


> No one in the right mind is going to use rubbing alcohol on their dogs in a fight or if it pulls. Anyone who does so should not be allowed to own an animal. Your insistence on the usage of rubbing alcohol spells out a lot about your character. Using mace to protect yourself and your pets is different then just spraying your dog in the face. It actually makes sense that you can't comprehend the difference though and I don't expect you to. I just hope that people new to pit type dogs are not led astray by your poor advise.


I don't understand, why are you so bothered by the poster stating he uses rubbing alcohol? You are jumping down his throat as if he was using something toxic. He didn't say battery acid, or gasoline! You are being a little to hard, and judgmental on him IMO.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

In order for rubbing alcohol to stop a fight, the dog would have to care that you're spraying them. That's not a dog fully committed to the fight. Unless its supposed to send them into a sneezing fit or something. It's not what I would rely on either way. I typically choke out because my instinctive reaction is to go for the collar, but breaking sticks are good, too. It just depends on what your circumstances are when the fight breaks out. 

Leri Hanson sums up my feelings on DA nicely:

"I have a problem with people who try to sugar-coat what they are. Their background comes from a fighting history. They get a hold of something and they're into it, the damage is quick, and it's violent, and its quite frightening if you're not prepared. When you watch them wrestle and play with one of their playmates, you see why they're the number one fighting breed. I mean, they're good at what they do. They're strong, they're powerful, they're quick, they're agile. Like I said, there doesn't have to be a reason for these dogs to fight. Sometimes it's just the pure love of it. Game dogs have that very very strong in them."


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## Celly_Cells_Kenya (Aug 27, 2012)

bahamutt99 said:


> In order for rubbing alcohol to stop a fight, the dog would have to care that you're spraying them. That's not a dog fully committed to the fight.


:goodpost:


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## Celly_Cells_Kenya (Aug 27, 2012)

dday said:


> I don't understand, why are you so bothered by the poster stating he uses rubbing alcohol? You are jumping down his throat as if he was using something toxic. He didn't say battery acid, or gasoline! You are being a little to hard, and judgmental on him IMO.


its how he tries to force his methods to new owners who know very little when it comes to this stuff..instead its "bash the mass" and _his views are far better becuase hes had these dogs for gens...._

and other posts.... :flush:


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

dday said:


> I don't understand, why are you so bothered by the poster stating he uses rubbing alcohol? You are jumping down his throat as if he was using something toxic. He didn't say battery acid, or gasoline! You are being a little to hard, and judgmental on him IMO.


I just think there are better methods. Also when the rubbing alcohol was first brought to light he was talking about spraying the dog for pulling him while leash walking. It wasn't until later where he included information about him using it to break up fights. I don't feel I'm being judgmental. I'm simply going off information he has provided not only in this thread but in others as well. I have no sympathy for irresponsible owners. Having a dog drag you down the street isn't a reflection on the dog and it's DA it only reflects the lack of training provided by the owner and then to spray the dog with rubbing alcohol expecting that to be some magical trick in keeping a DA dog in line is ludicrous. If he can't leash train a dog how in the world can he break up a dog fight?? Oh that's right rubbing alcohol.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

There you go again with assumptions. Please learn how to read. I NEVER EVER suggested using mace to break up a dog fight. Macing the dog charging at you is a deterant. Would you rather just stand there and act like an idiot and let your dog get attacked or spray it and keep it from harming your dog? I would never ever use mace as any form of training method, it has only one use wether it's people or a dog, personal protection.


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

Dday, I've done about everything you're talking about -- even the ones that are obviously a bad idea -- and I think you'll agree, most don't work. I could spray my dogs all day with a water hose and nothing would happen. Light the end of a newspaper and wave it at them, don't have a single one that's going to break his hold. Twisting ears and cranking on tails doesn't work and they're both hard on the dog. Punching and kicking them can break bones...

Appreciate you being honest enough to say you've never tried it and that even though you doubt it will work, that it might be something to consider. 

I trust the alcohol method because it has worked for me. More importantly, it works for my wife. She's been around pits her entire life. She's the one that told me about it. 

I could probably badger her into learning how to use a break stick, but...

I'm not going to explain to my wife that she needs to wait for a break in the action, then with cat reflexes squat over the dog's hackle bones, pinch it at the hips with her knees, get a handful of skin behind the neck with her weak hand, start sliding her strong hand (with the breaker in it) up from the dog's shoulders, then along side its neck, then up to its cheek bone, then slide it into the dogs mouth, start working it back and forth like a motorcycle throttle -- but careful not to break any teeth -- until the dog lets go or the other dog breaks free. 

I'm not going to explain to her how you can't just start stabbing at the dog's mouth without holding the dog at the hips and the neck. I'm not going to try and describe the right moment to jump in. 

I'm not going to explain that she needs to be watching the back of the other dog's neck at all times as she's doing all this or she could get bit. I'm not going to explain to her that once she breaks the dog's hold, to drop the stick, pick her dog up around the chest while continuing to hold the back of it's neck, raise it, turning her back on the other dog to prevent the fight from breaking out again, all the while knowing as I'm giving the explanation that there's always a chance the other dog might bite her in the legs or the back when she does it -- 

I'm not going to explain all that and HOPE she understands it all and HOPE that everything turns out text-book perfect and HOPE she doesn't break any of the dog's teeth and HOPE and HOPE and HOPE when I can simply say,

"yea, do that rubbing alcohol thing you like. It's much easier." 

Dday, in reality my wife knows everything I described above and she carries a break stick because she was raised her around pits, but I'm trying to make a point. 

I think it's a terrible idea to tell some young man or woman that break stick is the first resort and not the last. 

The danger is just too high. It's just like you said, breaking a dog off isn't a concern. It's the dog that doesn't have a hold that makes my heart race... even when someone else has a hold of it.

Suggesting a green kid use a breaker to split up a fight -- alone with no one else there to hold on the other dog -- is just asking too much. Better to just let the fight play out if you're inexperienced, or use alcohol!


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Waving a flaming piece of newspaper? Are you freaking serious? What on earth is wrong with you. You just sound more and more irriaponsible with every post. Like I have said over and over if your responsible and protect your dog you shouldn't be worring about breaking up fights left and right. Keep your damn dog on a leash and be aware of your surroundings. Like I said before if a loose dog is coming after me or my dog I have no problem macing it. I'd rather just keep it away from me and not have to deal with a fight in the first place.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

hotchkiss said:


> Dday, I've done about everything you're talking about -- even the ones that are obviously a bad idea -- and I think you'll agree, most don't work. I could spray my dogs all day with a water hose and nothing would happen. Light the end of a newspaper and wave it at them, don't have a single one that's going to break his hold. Twisting ears and cranking on tails doesn't work and they're both hard on the dog. Punching and kicking them can break bones...
> 
> Appreciate you being honest enough to say you've never tried it and that even though you doubt it will work, that it might be something to consider.
> 
> ...


Hmmm! Well OK.
Like I said, a break stick is a tool, and is the best tool in the right situation.
Ex; Two "REAL" bull dogs in an accidental fight. This is where it works, and is the best tool for the job. If you are alone, tie one of the dogs off to something, then break loose the other one. 
It is not as complicated as you make it sound.
And like I mentioned about the alcohol, if it works to break up a fight, then I see nothing wrong with it. But I have serious reservations that it would work with real bull dogs. And when I mentioned all those ludicrous ways the uneducated use to try to break up a fight, I hope that doesn't apply to anyone on this site! 
In regards to training methods, like some other posters mentioned, there are most likely better ways to teach your dog not to pull, or teaching other commands than spraying alcohol to the face. I personally prefer a prong collar, with a safety back up collar to train your dog not to pull so hard. But I am sure there are other methods that work just as well. 
In my area, which is a nice area by the way, it is rare that I don't encounter several loose dogs out and about, if and when I walk my dog. I usually just try to walk the other way or just hope the other dog isn't interested. But on occasion there is that one dog that is looking for trouble, but most of the time just yelling at the dog prevents him from coming too close. But this doesn't always work, one poster says she would use mace or pepper spray "I think that is fine", you use alcohol, if it works that is also good. I have also heard that the "sound" of a stun gun will stop most dogs in their tracks. 
The important thing is to try to prevent the incident from happening what ever you have to do to accomplish this. Because most likely, no matter how it happened, the "PIT BULL" will be blamed in most situations! It is our job to protect our dogs from ignorance, and prejudice which is rampid out there.
If you are new to the breed read as much as you can BEFORE you get one. If you already own one, then read even more, because this breed "game bred ones anyway" are much different than other dogs when it comes to combat. They do not have to be trained, taught, or prodded into fighting as the media would like you to believe. In my opinion they are the bravest, most loyal, loving dogs on the planet and I have owned at least one for over 30 years +. 
But like anything else you have to understand them. They do not need other 
Dog friends to be happy, they are not a pack animal like most other dog breeds. They are perfectly content with you, and other human contact. 
Now I know there are members on here saying, "my pit bulls get along great together!" Well that is the exception, not the rule, and most likely your dogs are mixed, or many generations from game lines. OK I am done rambling LOL.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Sounds like grasping and dramatics to me. What kind of dingle suggested waiting for a break in the action? You grab the collar and immobilize the dog as best you can. Nobody is suggesting you just watch and wait. Because watching a dog fight is, y'know, like, a crime in most places. I don't let other people handle my dogs unless I know they can really handle them. That is the safer option in my experience.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

dday said:


> Hmmm! Well OK.
> Like I said, a break stick is a tool, and is the best tool in the right situation.
> Ex; Two "REAL" bull dogs in an accidental fight. This is where it works, and is the best tool for the job. If you are alone, tie one of the dogs off to something, then break loose the other one.
> It is not as complicated as you make it sound.
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

bahamutt99 said:


> Sounds like grasping and dramatics to me. What kind of dingle suggested waiting for a break in the action? You grab the collar and immobilize the dog as best you can. Nobody is suggesting you just watch and wait. Because watching a dog fight is, y'know, like, a crime in most places. I don't let other people handle my dogs unless I know they can really handle them. That is the safer option in my experience.


:goodpost:


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## Celly_Cells_Kenya (Aug 27, 2012)

*sigh*........


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

I've never seen anyone with quick enough hands nor shifty enough feet get ahold of one of the two dogs before one of the two dog got a good hold on the other. 

One dog has to have a hold of the other before you can get a hold yourself. 

Prior to that, it's pure chaos, moving far too fast for a person to stick their hand in the middle and try to grab a dog without getting bit.


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## PerfectPit (Aug 2, 2010)

Wow, just wow! I'm not even going to address certain comments because it falls on deaf ears and hollow heads. DA is bred into an APBT, you can't "cure it," but you can manage it. Always having control of your dog, learn body language, know your surroundings and your dog's triggers. Train, leave it, sit, stay etc. Some have never been in a true dog fight; I've been in 3, that was enough for me. Each time it was worse. My 80lb bully mix has DR and my 120lb Bull Mastiff had full blown DA. We C&R'd for years until the last fight when I decided to pts my Mastiff. It is very expensive repairing damaged dogs (if they survived the fight) from a true fight. The last fight my Mastiff broke his barrier and was on my bully in a second. The break stick worked for my bully but couldn't be used on the Mastiff. I slipped and ended up with a broken wrist from the bites my Mastiff did, still trying to charge at the bully. I know he wasn't trying to harm me, he was so focused on "attacking the bully". The vet said he could fix them both up, get me a trainer to try and manage the situation but each incident was progressively worse and what if the kids were caught in the middle. There would be no chance of protecting them, so I made the hard choice to pts my heart. I know I did the right thing. I am currently working hard with my bully mix on his DR. It's a slow process but ever small positive reinforcing step without alcohol is worth it.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

And rubbing alcohol creates a Star Trek-like force field which stops two dogs from making contact? Breaking dogs out of holds is the point. We're talking about Pit Bulls, right? I don't know about your dogs, but if my dogs make contact, they're already in holds. Nothing -- not sight, nor sound, nor smell -- will stop them short of the security meaures I already have in place. And if a security breach does happen, grab, choke, break off. It is remarkably effective. 

I remember the last time someone tried alternate means to stop a dog fight. It prolonged it because the dogs were wet and hard to grab after someone thought to spray the hose.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

bahamutt99 said:


> Sounds like grasping and dramatics to me. What kind of dingle suggested waiting for a break in the action? You grab the collar and immobilize the dog as best you can. Nobody is suggesting you just watch and wait. Because watching a dog fight is, y'know, like, a crime in most places. I don't let other people handle my dogs unless I know they can really handle them. That is the safer option in my experience.


Exactly what I was thinking. Watch for a break in the action? WTH. You just break it up. You are alone you have one dog attach the leash to something and you move the breakstick into the corner or the jaw and they release. It's not that difficult...

And you said you agree none of the other idiot methods work because you have tried them!?!? Anyone who gets these breeds and doesn't do research to know water doesn't work and kicking or hitting is abuse! Having to try those out to know you fail is unbelievable.

Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

"You just break it up," huh? You just throw caution to the wind and jump right into the middle of the action. As someone said earlier, you have some star trek force field or something?

Pits are capable of killing one another and other dogs even easier and they can maim children and adults alike and a hard biter can lock down with 3,000 pounds of force per square inch...

But, breaking up a fight without getting injured is a walk in the park, easy as pie. Naa, there's a great deal of technique required to do it right, to protect yourself. 

"Just do it," is really, really, really bad advice. You damn sure want to know what you're doing before you get into the middle of a pit fight. To say otherwise is ignorant.

All you bleeding hearts crying, "I've got to do anything necessary to protect my dog," need to take a step back and think. Rule number one in breaking up a pit fight is protecting yourself. 

Once again, a break stick and inexperience is a recipe for disaster... but good luck!


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

break stick or GTFO


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

hotchkiss said:


> "You just break it up," huh? You just throw caution to the wind and jump right into the middle of the action. As someone said earlier, you have some star trek force field or something?
> 
> Pits are capable of killing one another and other dogs even easier and they can maim children and adults alike and a* hard biter can lock down with 3,000 pounds of force per square inch...
> *
> ...


first bold is false. what i quoted you as saying is more powerful than a great white shark.

the 2nd thing i bold is true. get a break stick, learn how to use it.


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

yep, extra zero.

AHHH, so now you agree? You've got to learn how to use one? You shouldn't just shove one into your back pocket and jump into the first pit fight you come across? 

Like I said, there's a method to it and if you don't know what you're doing, you're going to get bit or worse.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

hotchkiss said:


> yep, extra zero.
> 
> AHHH, so now you agree? You've got to learn how to use one? You shouldn't just shove one into your back pocket and jump into the first pit fight you come across?
> 
> Like I said, there's a method to it and if you don't know what you're doing, you're going to get bit or worse.


just youtube it


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

LOL! yea, cause a pit fight in action definitely resembles a lab sitting on his haunches holding a tennis ball.

The actual breaking of a pit's hold is about 3 seconds of a minute long process.

But, finished beating my head into the ground over this. You go ahead and keep telling inexperienced pit owners to select the most dangerous method of breaking up a fight. They in turn can become instant experts on the matter by "just youtube[ing] it" and further perpetuate the ignorance to other new pit owners... and on and on and on.

Meanwhile, no one is saying, "hold on there greenhorn. There are much safer ways to break-up a fight than putting yourself in harms way. If they don't work, yea, you're probably going to need a break stick, but make make a break stick your last resort, not your first, because it's dangerous getting up-close and personal with a pit fight."

I find it hard to believe you don't feel irresponsible about telling someone's 100 pound wife or someone's teenage kid, "no worries man, it's easy. Just jump in there, it's just a pit bull fight after all... but of course, you tube it first."


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

hotchkiss said:


> "You just break it up," huh? You just throw caution to the wind and jump right into the middle of the action. As someone said earlier, you have some star trek force field or something?
> 
> Pits are capable of killing one another and other dogs even easier and they can maim children and adults alike and a hard biter can lock down with 3,000 pounds of force per square inch...
> 
> ...


While a tidbit of the information you have posted is correct, i.e., breaking up a fight w/out getting yourself hurt is a learned technique that most average owners don't have the luxury of knowing or experience... I have to say that your widespread misinformation and your ability to google, copy and paste is doing more harm than good. Unfortunately, majority of first time owners are going to see what you say, and try your methods before they listen to reason about being responsible and training their dogs, and being proactive instead of reactive. :stick:

I also feel the need to address something you posted on page 2, about how your wife was raised with these dogs, and she was the one to suggest to you about using rubbing alcohol, yet she knows how to use a break stick and swears by it, but you're not going to explain to her how to properly use one. That just doesn't make any sense to me. If she was raised in this breed, and knows how to use one and swears by it, then why in the world would you have to explain anything to her about how to properly use one? You're doing an excellent job of contradicting yourself throughout the 3 pages that have been posted so far.

Now, let's get this thread back on track so the OP can have the answers to the questions they originally posted. If this thread doesn't change course IMMEDIATELY, then I will shut it down and anyone stepping out of bounds will be reprimanded!


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

If you'd have read the entire post, you'd understand. 

In the last two paragraphs I explain that in reality my wife knows how to use a break stick and carries one with her. I stated that the reason I used her as an example of an inexperienced pit owner was to illustrate a point.

The point is, I don't believe people on this site should be telling newbies -- people that are wives and daughters and teenage sons and fathers with kids -- that a break stick is the first, best and only resort to breaking up a pit fight. 

Once again, telling people that don't know much about pit bulls that they should jump into the middle of a pit fight and start poking around at a dog's face with a stick is REALLY bad advice. 

I'll go so far as to say that suggesting someone whom doesn't have experience with pit bulls should try breaking up the first fight they are affronted with using a break stick is negligent. 

Really bad advice.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

hotchkiss said:


> LOL! yea, cause a pit fight in action definitely resembles a lab sitting on his haunches holding a tennis ball.
> 
> The actual breaking of a pit's hold is about 3 seconds of a minute long process.
> 
> ...


you didnt even bother to youtube what i said. plenty of WORLD FAMOUS dogmen that show you how to break up a fight without getting hurt.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

LiveLeak.com - How to open vicious Pitbull's jaws when he attacks google pulled this is .4 seconds


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Your lack of comprehension is astounding. All this dancing around in circles is making you look rediculous. No one ever said for a new pet owner to just jump in a fight and start jamming sticks in its mouth OMG. And the fact of the matter is you had first stated you used the alcohol as a training method because you can't control the dog on leash, the original conversation had nothing to do with breaking up fights till you changed the subject. Like I said in the first place, if your responsible with your dog then you shouldn't be worried about breaking up fights left and right in the first place. Be responsible and protect your dog. If you've had so much trouble, and so many fights that you've had to try all kinds of idiot methods to break up fights, then your not doing a very good job of keeping your dogs out of harms way. I understand accidents happen, been their done that, but when it's a repeated occurance it's kinda hard to say its "accidents" and not irresponsibility.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

No one ever said to do it without research. If you own the breed you have to do research. That goes for any breed. You make it seem like its a difficult thing. All I am saying is yes. Once you YouTube or come into forums like this that have numerous threads about how to properly break up a fight it IS about getting in there and getting it done ASAP. Being responsible about it means you learn how to respond before you are in a situation when you need to respond.

Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

HA! YEA! That video makes it look REALLLY easy! Guy has a dog that's hardly shaking its head, it's barely moving, it has a hold on a training hide and he's dropping the stick, it's getting kicked around, he can't get it between the dog's teeth...

He's working up a sweat trying to demonstrate "how to use a break stick" on a dog that isn't even moving and then he says, "and remember, it's going to be alot harder when the dog is actually in a fight!"

Yea, let's tell newbies and pregnant wives and teenagers to give that a shot! WOW.

Really good idea.

Oh, and don't forget, he's a professional dogman.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

hotchkiss said:


> If you'd have read the entire post, you'd understand.
> 
> In the last two paragraphs I explain that in reality my wife knows how to use a break stick and carries one with her. I stated that the reason I used her as an example of an inexperienced pit owner was to illustrate a point.
> 
> ...


Every thing you just said is correct, the problem is I don't believe anyone has suggested that. I personally said that a break stick is a TOOL and like any tool must be learned how to use properly. I also said it is not the right tool if one or both dogs are not an apbt. I also said that in a real apbt fight, the only real way "that has been proven" to separate them, is with a break stick. I also said that if rubbing alcohol works, then great use it! But I doubt very much it would do a d**m thing. 
But yes the first and most important thing is to protect yourself and others. Breaking the dogs up should always be the second priority. You have indicated others are miss quoting or not understanding what you are saying, but I think you are doing the same thing.
So I don't see where anyone suggested a "green horn", or an untrained person jump in the middle of a dog fight. But I do say, anyone who owns an apbt needs to learn how to use a break stick. I have personally witnessed where far worse damage was caused because there was no break stick by pulling and twisting dogs apart causing deep long lacerations. I find no fault in you using the techniques that you use. In fact maybe I will care a little with me to try "IF" an incident ever happens again. But you can bet I will always have the tool that has proven itself to work!


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

Dday:

1) I've yet to disagree with anything you've said.
2) My wife and I both carry break sticks when we walk the dogs as the second to last resort.
3) Yea, the last resort is trying to pull them apart. That does a hell of a lot more damage than most of even the deepest holds.

4) If no one is thinks newbies should be trying to use break sticks, then people need to consider what alternatives they recommend.


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## Celly_Cells_Kenya (Aug 27, 2012)

hotchkiss said:


> yep, extra zero.
> 
> AHHH, so now you agree? You've got to learn how to use one? You shouldn't just shove one into your back pocket and jump into the first pit fight you come across?
> 
> Like I said, there's a method to it and if you don't know what you're doing, you're going to get bit or worse.


from the very beginnin we have all said that beginners need to educate themselves on how to properly use a break stick. no one here is handing new ppl a very DA dog a break stick and saying "have at it" come on! ur so dramatic its ridiculous


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

Celly_Cells_Kenya said:


> from the very beginnin we have all said that beginners need to educate themselves on how to properly use a break stick. no one here is handing new ppl a very DA dog a break stick and saying "have at it" come on!* ur so dramatic its ridiculous*


dude is a serious bitch thats for sure. does nothing but ad-lib other peoples posts and adds nonsense.

you wont be able to take real deal off a dogmans property without being schooled on the use of a break stick.

why isnt this retard banned yet? trick does the same thing in every post he makes.


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't think he has been banned because it's unreasonable to ban someone for making compelling arguments for his case, even if they aren't popular, especially when he doesn't resort to name calling.

Do you really think I should be banned for saying using a break stick is dangerous business and we shouldn't suggest newbies try it? Should I be banned for saying inexperienced pit owners should use a non-toxic alternative to a break stick to separate fighting dogs?

Of course you don't. You simply don't like the fact that someone you don't like may know more than you about pits and have a great deal more experience. Hence, you call me handicap as a last resort to discredit me.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

hotchkiss said:


> I don't think he has been banned because it's unreasonable to ban someone for making compelling arguments for his case, even if they aren't popular, especially when he doesn't resort to name calling.
> 
> Do you really think I should be banned for saying using a break stick is dangerous business and we shouldn't suggest newbies try it? Should I be banned for saying inexperienced pit owners should use a non-toxic alternative to a break stick to separate fighting dogs?
> 
> Of course you don't. You simply don't like the fact that someone you don't like may know more than you about pits and have a great deal more experience. Hence,* you call me handicap as a last resort to discredit me*.


im not name calling, you are retarded. everything out of your mouth makes no sense and is there just to antagonize. i do think you should be banned but not for the reasons you posted but for the reasons i did...you are a drama queen.

i dont need to discredit you. you do that with the words you type


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## shewerewolf (Oct 27, 2010)

Just do not give this guy the attention. If you dont like break sticks then dont use them, dont shove it down others throats. 

Myself personally will always swear by a break stick. end of my reply lol.


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## angel3115 (Sep 9, 2012)

Don't know how well it would work if an APBT really gets into it, but the trainer I went to taught us to, first of all, remain calm. Second, grab the dog by the back legs. It takes them off balance, which gets them to stop, and you aren't grabbing collars to put yourself in danger of being bit.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Okay, I'm posting, yet AGAIN... GET THIS THREAD BACK ON TRACK RIGHT NOW! 

Hotchkiss, you're just smart enough to play by the rules, but you continue to antagonize the situation. Go back to the topic at hand (which wasn't discussing use of a break stick). 

Angel, in response to your comment, whoever taught you to grab the back legs and pull... I can tell you from experience, that only agitates the dog whose legs you're pulling and can potentially do more damage to the other dog in it's grip. Please DO NOT ever do this. Also, this can cause the dog to re-direct it's aggression (especially if it's not a full blooded APBT, or another breed all together) which can be more harmful to you or whoever is trying to break up the fight. 

Now, GET IT BACK ON TRACK.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Bev is 100% right. Pulling on a dogs back legs may do more damage. Remember the APBT was a fighting dog. They were designed for battling one another so saying knocking it off balance will make it stop is untrue. These dogs knocked each other all around the box and were thrown off balance quite often, this never caused the dog to just stop. These dogs are not like most other breeds they require a well educated and responsible owner. Just because you have a DA dog doesn't mean your going to be breaking up fights non stop. If we are responsible with our dogs and aware of our surroundings we should be able to stop any such fight from happening in the first place. If you own multiple dogs, crate and rotate. Dogs that are separated can't harm each other. If you know an area always has loose dogs, walk your dog somewhere else, or like I said before you can carry mace or pepper spray. It's much easier to detour a dog, then wait till a fight breaks out and trying to separate them.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

If you grab the back legs and wheelbarrel them counter clockwise the dogs separate without the footing and make it easier to have control and they can not lash out to anyone else. But without 2 people its harder since only one dog would be caught off guard. explained HERE: How to Break up a Dog Fight

I also agree there is no way one tool will work for EVERY incidents. The key is to know enough about different scenarios so when it happens you will NOT panic and be able to act accordingly.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

ames said:


> If you grab the back legs and wheelbarrel them counter clockwise the dogs separate without the footing and make it easier to have control and they can not lash out to anyone else. But without 2 people its harder since only one dog would be caught off guard. explained HERE: How to Break up a Dog Fight
> 
> I also agree there is no way one tool will work for EVERY incidents. The key is to know enough about different scenarios so when it happens you will NOT panic and be able to act accordingly.


That is an interesting site, and I believe with most breeds that would work. But if you go to his web site Leerburg | Emails about Dog Bites and Dog Attacks. It has many photos of dog bites, most caused by breaking up fights, and several of the people who got bit said they tried the back leg thing and it didn't work. 
Some of the photos are very disturbing which causes me to say that it is most likely better to let the dogs fight if you are not confident or trained on how to keep yourself safe when braking dogs up.


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## PerfectPit (Aug 2, 2010)

Grabbing the back legs may cost you thousands of dollars in damage. My boy ended up having luxating patella surgery because that is exactly what my husband did when my mastiff grabbed my bully by the throat. The mastiff dragged both my bully and my husband through the yard. I would never recommend that method because we paid the hefty price for that method because "he was told" that was the best way to break up a fight if a break stick wasn't close by.


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

You grab the back legs of a cur so he can't turn to bite you. A pit isn't going to turn on you. You can break a dog's back pulling on his legs. Hold a pit by the hips.

You start pulling on the dogs when they're fighting -- and one dog has a good hold -- and you are going to do more damage to the other dog than any hold would naturally do because you're going to rip and tear the dog's skin.

Punctures heal fast. Rips and tears take forever.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Wow seriously? A "pit" isn't going to turn on you? It doesn't matter what breed of dog it is breaking up a fight always has the risk of getting bit. This situation happened to a friend of mine, rushed it freaking out trying to pull the dogs apart, and her "pit bull" type dog bit off and swallowed her finger. It only took her neighbor less than a minute to part these dogs and he didn't pull on either one. 
It is very bad advice and dangerous to tell someone to try and part a dog fight by pulling on ones legs. The dog is already in fight mode them you come up and grab it from behind it may think you are another dog trying to attack to which they'll turn around and bite.


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

Then it wasn't a true pit. Probably some boxer-mix, shelter rescue, cur. 

Just so I understand what you wrote and I don't misinterpret, a pit was fighting with another dog, a woman grabbed the pit by the hips, the pit let go of it's hold, (must be a new technique, never heard of grabbing a pit's hips to get it to break its hold) turned around and bit the woman's finger off, ate it, and then continued on fighting?


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## Princesspaola21 (Oct 30, 2012)

Wow. This whole thread has been a roller coaster. It's plainly evident that certain people have joined this forum specifically to argue. I know this because I haven't seen a handful of posts that weren't either arguing or antagonizing. This post was asking questions about DA. Answer his questions or move on. It's pretty simple.

Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

I never said the hips, I said she rushed out there in a panic and went pulling on the dogs to try and part them. I was not there I didn't see this so I only know what she said and no these were both her dogs and were siblings, both "pit bull" type dogs. The dogs were rolling all over the place, she said, and she said she was trying to pull one dog off the other one by his legs, which she said didn't work, and during the struggle her finger was bitten off. At that point in time I was on my way to her house with a break stick but luckily the next door neighbor had them parted before hand. And the point I was trying to make is that it's dangerous to just freak out and start pulling on dogs. Not only can it cause more damage to the dogs themselves but you run the risk of being hurt yourself. I think her finger was bitten off by her other dog, not the one she was pulling on, I was just saying that pulling on them may be more dangerous. And as for a dog redirecting on a person YES this absolutely does happen, and yes with known APBTs. 
And her situation comes back to the first point I was trying to make in the first place BE RESPONSIBLE!!!! Now had she listened to me and had all these damn dogs on chain set ups or crate and rotate this would not have happened in the first place. She had 4 "pitbull" type dogs running around loose at all times and I had told her many times to be careful with those dogs or they're gunna fight. I'd said not to feed all 4 together like that, I'd told her it wasn't a good idea. If she listened she'd probably still have all her fingers. 
Honestly I'm not sure what your out to prove here. Are you trying to convince us or yourself?


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

All of the OP's questions have been answered. The direction the thread has taken is a natural extension of the DA topic. The end result -- if precautions aren't taken -- is a fight. How to break-up a fight properly is a worthwhile discussion relating to dog aggression.

As for grabbing a dog's back legs, if you don't believe me, watch that hilarious "How to Use a Break Stick" video that was posted yesterday. It was specifically designed for the people in this forum and he make a sorted effort to say, "don't ever grab your pit bull dog by the back legs."


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Okay, so apparently, some people have an issue staying focused and want to continuously antagonize. This thread is going nowhere fast, and has run its course. It's been fun.


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