# Natural Colors vs Enhanced



## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

I've been reading numerous threads & the thought just crossed me. What are the true natural colors for APBT's, AST's & what was the third one? There are 3 different types of pit bull, right?


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## PBN (Aug 1, 2009)

For the apbt:
Any color, color pattern, or combination of colors is acceptable, except for merle.

For the AST:
Any color, solid, parti, or patched is permissible, but all white, more than 80 per cent white, black and tan, and liver not to be encouraged.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

PitBullNewbie said:


> For the apbt:
> Any color, color pattern, or combination of colors is acceptable, except for merle.
> 
> For the AST:
> Any color, solid, parti, or patched is permissible, but all white, more than 80 per cent white, black and tan, and liver not to be encouraged.


Thanks, I'm sure these questions are asked frequently - sorry still a newbie... I'm finding myself not only partial to the blues, but blue fawns, buckskin & fawns. Their features are stunning in my opinion. Hopefully down the road when I look into getting a second, I'll be as lucky to find (what I consider) a reputable breeder in my area as I was the first time. We'll see 

PS, why call yourself a newbie, you know quite a bit


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## King_bluebully (Aug 4, 2009)

the 3rd one is ambully


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

There is one type of pitbull and that is the American Pitbull Terrier. Now you also have the Amstaff and American Bully reffered to as pitbulls. Pitbull is a common term given to several breeds of dog. 

As stated above the APBT is excepted in any color and nose color other than merle and dudly (sp) nose which is a nose lacking pigment. 

The Amstaffs State that the Nose is to be defiantly black. Rednose is not excepted, however for some reason a blue nose is let to slide.

With the American Bully they are the same color acceptance as the APBT. Merle is not excepted but all others are fine.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> There is one type of pitbull and that is the American Pitbull Terrier. Now you also have the Amstaff and American Bully reffered to as pitbulls. Pitbull is a common term given to several breeds of dog.
> 
> As stated above the APBT is excepted in any color and nose color other than merle and dudly (sp) nose which is a nose lacking pigment.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying. What I've gathered so far is the difference with Ambullies from APBT's & Amstaff's are the snout are shorter with more of a bulldog appearance, is this so? Also, aside from color specifications - what's the difference between Amstaffy's & APBT's? Is it the heritage lines & are there subtle differences between them i.e. height, weight etc. that clarify acceptations in one line to another??? The history of this breed is so interesting


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## PBN (Aug 1, 2009)

Lex's Guardian said:


> Thanks, I'm sure these questions are asked frequently - sorry still a newbie... I'm finding myself not only partial to the blues, but blue fawns, buckskin & fawns. Their features are stunning in my opinion. Hopefully down the road when I look into getting a second, I'll be as lucky to find (what I consider) a reputable breeder in my area as I was the first time. We'll see
> 
> PS, why call yourself a newbie, you know quite a bit


Thanks, Google works wonders. :thumbsup:


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## Cream is Pitbulls (Aug 15, 2009)

For the once:They can come in color combination of colors for the nose color any color not merle or dudley
For the Second: Any color any nose color except red
For the Third aka Ambully:They can come in any color just the same as the first one


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

PitBullNewbie said:


> Thanks, Google works wonders. :thumbsup:


Hah, the urban electronic dictionary  It does but I had to filter through some spam... I like it here, you get immediate results which works well for my hyperactive personality lolz


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Lex's Guardian said:


> Thanks for clarifying. What I've gathered so far is the difference with Ambullies from APBT's & Amstaff's are the snout are shorter with more of a bulldog appearance, is this so? Also, aside from color specifications - what's the difference between Amstaffy's & APBT's? Is it the heritage lines & are there subtle differences between them i.e. height, weight etc. that clarify acceptations in one line to another??? The history of this breed is so interesting


The main difference in the 3 are size. Weight and height.

The APBT is the original and meant to be a slender performance dog. 
The Amstaff is a show version of the APBT that has been bred and bit thicker and to AKC standards as the AKC doesn't except the APBT. 
The American Bully is newer and varies quite alot in size and structure. The American Bully is a cross of APBT and Amstaff with the mixing in of Mastiff and other breeds. 
A visual comparison of each breed.
APBT- AMERICAN PITBULL TERRIER
















AMSTAFF- AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER
















AMBULLY-AMERICAN BULLY


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

> The main difference in the 3 are size. Weight and height.
> 
> The APBT is the original and meant to be a slender performance dog.
> The Amstaff is a show version of the APBT that has been bred and bit thicker and to AKC standards as the AKC doesn't except the APBT.
> The American Bully is newer and varies quite alot in size and structure. The American Bully is a cross of APBT and Amstaff with the mixing in of Mastiff and other breeds.


This is correct except one thing... It amazing to see how the times have change. The "three" breeds and only "three" breeds are *APBT, Am Staff, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier*. Am Bully is not a breed. It is a concoction. A mixture of breeds or hybrid. (Mutt)

Staffordshire Bull Terriers are quite different now than they were in the 1800's. They were the only pit bulls of the time and were where APBTs originate from at the turn of the century. All APBTs trace back to Staffordshire Bull Terriers.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> This is correct except one thing... It amazing to see how the times have change. The "three" breeds and only "three" breeds are *APBT, Am Staff, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier*. Am Bully is not a breed. It is a concoction. A mixture of breeds or hybrid. (Mutt)


That is your opinion. They have a registry and a standard. They are a breed. Whether you like them or not is fine and you don't have to except them as a breed, but they are a breed now none the less and ar starting to develop consistency as a breed.

Also we where not talking about the Stafforshire Terrier here.

You add that in and are making it part of "3" breeds...Breeds of what? We where talking about dogs commonly called pitbulls, the Staffy Bull is rarely ever called a pitbull.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> That is your opinion. They have a registry and a standard. They are a breed. Whether you like them or not is fine and you don't have to except them as a breed, but they are a breed now none the less and ar starting to develop consistency as a breed.
> 
> Also we where not talking about the Stafforshire Terrier here.
> 
> You add that in and are making it part of "3" breeds...Breeds of what? We where talking about dogs commonly called pitbulls, the Staffy Bull is rarely ever called a pitbull.


Seems you need to go back to bulldog school before you become an official on a bulldog board. History is fact not "my" opinion.

The three breeds have always been APBT, Am Staff, and Staff Bull. In all the APBT books ever written the three breeds are considered APBT, Am Staff, and Staff Bull. In every BSL in America the three breeds that are classified as "pit bulls" are APBTs, Am Staffs, and Staff Bulls then they mention mixes of those three breeds. Do your homework. There is no mention in any APBT book of anything named American Bully. In any and every BSL there is nothing mentioned of anything named American Bully. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a breed made up of the original fighting dogs in England and is the stock the APBT came from. With out the Staff Bull the APBT does not exsist. Why do you think AKC used a name like American "Staffordshire" Terrier???? Do you even know where Staffordshire is?

Am Bully is not a breed. They are a fad that was concocted 10 years ago. Whether I like them or not makes no difference. There is absolutely no consistency where bullies are concerned. The only consistency is their inconsistency. They are designer mongrels. There is no consistency in how they are bred or why they are bred.

It's obvious that you haven't been around too long as far as APBTs are concerned. You should think about getting some knowledge under your belt before you take on the responsibility of a board moderator. APBTs have been a recognized breed in America from 1898. The Am Staff and Staff Bull since 1934. When did an "Am Bully" get recognition?


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Excerpts taken from wikipedia....

_"Pit Bull dog" means 
(i) Pit Bull Terrier; or 
(ii) Staffordshire Bull Terrier; or 
(iii) American Staffordshire Terrier; or 
(iv) American Pit Bull Terrier; or 
(v) Any dog which has the appearance and physical characteristics predominantly conforming to the standards for any of the above breeds, as established by the Canadian Kennel Club or the American Kennel Club or the United Kennel Club ...as determined by a veterinarian licensed to practice in Manitoba. 
...Any Pit Bull dog within the City of Winnipeg is and shall be conclusively deemed a dangerous dog. ...No person shall keep or harbour any Pit Bull dog regardless of age on or after June 1, 1990, except where the owner has a valid dangerous dog licence for that dog which has been issued prior to that date. [18][19]

The presiding judge found the term "a pit bull terrier" was unconstitutionally vague since it could include an undefined number of dogs similar to the American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.[20] The judge also ruled that the government's ability to introduce a veterinarian's certificate certifying that the dog is a pit bull created a mandatory presumption that the dog was a pit bull, and that this placed an unconstitutional burden of proof upon the defendant.[20]

*COLORADO*
It [is] unlawful for any person to have, own, possess, keep, exercise control over, maintain, harbor, transport, or sell within the city any pit bull or restricted breed of dog. 
"Pit bull" ... is defined as any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying the majority of physical traits of any one (1) or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American kennel club or united kennel club for any of the above breeds.

"Restricted Breed Of Dog" shall mean any American Bulldog (Old Country Bulldog), Dogo Argentino, Canary Dog (Canary Island Dog, Presa Canario, Perro De Presa Canario), Presa Mallorquin (Perro de Presa Mallorquin, Ca De Bou), Tosa Inu (Tosa Fighting Dog, Japanese Fighting Dog, Japanese Mastiff), Cane Corso (Cane Di Macellaio, Sicilian Branchiero), Fila Brasileiro or any dog displaying the majority of physical traits of any one (1) or more of the above breeds.

Owners of pit bull dogs and restricted dogs licensed within 60 days of the ordinance's effective date could keep their dogs only under restricted conditions, including:

if the dog is licensed, spay/neutered, vaccinated against rabies, and has microchip identification; 
the owner is at least 21 years old and has at least $100,000 US liability insurance 
the dog is kept indoors or locked in a secured pen, with government-provided warning signs posted at entrances to the property; 
when off the property, the dog must be kept in a secure transportable container or must wear a muzzle while held on a four-foot long non-extensible leash; 
the dog may not be sold or transferred to anyone outside the owner's immediate family 
the owner must notify the government immediately if the dog is loose, stolen, at-large, unconfined, has mauled, bitten, attacked, threatened, or in any way menaced another animal or human, or has died.[26] _

*DENVER*
_It [is] unlawful for any person to own, possess, keep, exercise control over, maintain, harbor, transport, or sell within the city any pit bull. 
A "pit bull" ... is defined as any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying the majority of physical traits of any one (1) or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds. The A.K.C. and U.K.C. standards for the above breeds are on file in the office of the clerk and recorder, ex officio clerk of the City and County of Denver, at City Clerk Filing No. 89457.
The law allowed owners of pit bulls living in Denver in July, 1989 to keep them provided the owner:

Registered the dog with the city and allowed the city to tattoo it with the registration number 
Was at least 21 years old 
Had $100,000 US in liability insurance 
Kept the dog confined 
Did not sell or otherwise transfer the dog to anyone except someone in the owner's immediate family. 
Posted a sign of specified dimensions and lettering ("PIT BULL DOG") at every possible entrance to the property where the dog was kept.[27]_

*IOWA*
_"It shall be unlawful for any person to own, possess, keep, exercise control over, maintain, harbor, transport, or sell within the city of Council Bluffs, Iowa, any pit bull....A "pit bull" is defined as any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying the majority of physical traits of any one or more of the above breeds (more so than any other breed), or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds. The A.K.C. and U.K.C. standards for the above breeds are on file in the office of the director of public health."[30]_

Do you need anymore...? Actually study the breed before you become an official on it.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Alex004 said:


> Seems you need to go back to bulldog school before you become an official on a bulldog board. History is fact not "my" opinion.
> 
> The three breeds have always been APBT, Am Staff, and Staff Bull. In all the APBT books ever written the three breeds are considered APBT, Am Staff, and Staff Bull. In every BSL in America the three breeds that are classified as "pit bulls" are APBTs, Am Staffs, and Staff Bulls then they mention mixes of those three breeds. Do your homework. There is no mention in any APBT book of anything named American Bully. In any and every BSL there is nothing mentioned of anything named American Bully. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a breed made up of the original fighting dogs in England and is the stock the APBT came from. With out the Staff Bull the APBT does not exsist. Why do you think AKC used a name like American "Staffordshire" Terrier???? Do you even know where Staffordshire is?
> 
> ...


whoa whoa simmer down now. There is a standard, whether people stick to it or not, is another story. People who are into the American Bully for the breed itself and not their own greed stick to this standard. Just like the APBT was a concotion, the Am Bully became it's own breed. I don't know where you live, but if the general public sees an Am Bully it is STILL classified as a pit bull. GASP! Isn't the Am Staff a designer dog?! Yeah, I thought so... The American Bully became recognized in 2007 but people such as myself have been calling them American Bullies a year prior to that. It's a start just like every other breed. Maybe you need to go back to Bulldog school B-U-D-D-Y.


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

jeeeeeeeeeeseeee


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> whoa whoa simmer down now. There is a standard, whether people stick to it or not, is another story. People who are into the American Bully for the breed itself and not their own greed stick to this standard. Just like the APBT was a concotion, the Am Bully became it's own breed. I don't know where you live, but if the general public sees an Am Bully it is STILL classified as a pit bull. GASP! Isn't the Am Staff a designer dog?! Yeah, I thought so... The American Bully became recognized in 2007 but people such as myself have been calling them American Bullies a year prior to that. It's a start just like every other breed. Maybe you need to go back to Bulldog school B-U-D-D-Y.


2007? That was 2 years ago.... Am Bullies were created to make money off of uneducated buyers. They serve no purpose other than that. Every breed has a reason or a purpose for it's creation. What is the Am Bully's? In the late '90s the dogs were considered hung paper dogs because at that time that is exactly what they were. There was no name "bully". Breeders with no integrity created these mixed breeds that look like a gigantic pit bulls to rake in money from uneducated customers. I was there when it started and I can name a bag of unscrupulous breeders that started it all just to be able to put $1000 + price tags on the pups they sold.

The general public? The general public cannot tell the difference between a Dogo and a APBT so that says nothing. The Am Staff isn't a designer dog. It was an APBT that AKC registered under a different name because they wanted nothing to do with fighting dogs. All original AKC dogs were APBTs. They look a little different now because they are used for the show arena alone. UKC APBTs that are pure show dogs look just like Am Staffs. Am Staffs weren't bred with another breed to make an Am Staff. It's all APBT that just hasn't been used for fighting for 70 years and used only for show. Just like the Staff Bull. You have a better chance at comparing the Am Bully to the Dogo but atleast the Dogo was created for a purpose and to a standard.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

To clarify something, I don't dislike Am Bullies. They are what they are. I don't like when people come up with all sorts of stories to cover up the fact that their dog is a mixed breed or a deformed dog. My point in this thread was to clarify that the "three" pit bull breeds is and always were APBT, Am Staff, and Staff Bulls. Misinformation is something that really rubs me the wrong way and I feel compelled to help clarify things to make sure people know what these dogs are and what they are not. The more people know the truth the better it is for all of us. BSLs are popping up all over the place and it's because of pit bulls being everywhere and having a population of uneducated pit bull owners spells disaster.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> Do you need anymore...? Actually study the breed before you become an official on it.


When did I or anyone else say that I was an official on the breed? Being a board moderator is helping a forum run it has nothing to do with your knowledge of the breed.

Now for I think you need to open your eyes and brush up your knowledge to the current world, not what exist back in your day.

What a book says a pitbull is, is not what is COMMONLY called a pitbull. What the public commonly calls pits are what we are talking about, so maybe you should read the thread and know what the conversation is about before you try to "educate".

We are talking about and clarifying the difference between what people see not what you read in a book:hammer:


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Ambullies are a new breed of dog and the standard is being set and hopefully you will start to see more of a uniform look. They are a breed made from a mix of breeds including the APBT.
I do agree that 
American pit bull terrier
American Staffordshire terrier
Staffordshire bull terrier
are all referred to as "pitbulls"
The American bully is a new breed and yes it may have came from a fad but is now very common and their own breed.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> having a population of uneducated pit bull owners spells disaster.


That is why we are clarifying the difference between the breeds. Google Pitbull and see what you get. 100's of results for American Bullies being referred to as pitbulls. Does that make them pitbulls? No no more than it makes a Staffy bull a pitbull, but it doesn't change the fact that they are being COMMONLY referred to as pitbulls.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

See this is where you change all what you've said before instead of just saying you were incorrect in what you originally said. You "told" me in this same post that I was wrong and that Staff Bulls aren't considered "pit bulls". Now you say different. You have to learn before you can teach and admitt when you are incorrect. From the beginning of this thread a question was asked about what are the "three" breeds classified as "pit bulls". The three breeds you amoung others listed were incorrect. That is why I came in and pointed it out. Now this coining of "three breeds" of "pit bulls" is a very old thing dating back to the 40s. If the Am Bully is a breed like you said and was recognized in 2007 how could Am Bully be apart of that trio? 

And if any one relies on Google for their education of "pit bulls", they are f*%ked before they even start out. Try Richard Stratton books, Colby's book, Rocca's book, amoung many others for starters.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Lex's Guardian said:


> I There are 3 different types of pit bull, right?


My response



american_pit13 said:


> There is one type of pitbull and that is the American Pitbull Terrier. Now you also have the Amstaff and American Bully reffered to as pitbulls. Pitbull is a common term given to several breeds of dog.


Now you are sitting and trying to say I am wrong that American Bullies are not referred to as pitbulls.

the original posters is saying TYPES of pitbulls. There are not TYPES of pitbulls... There is an American Pitbull Terrier.

Then there are many breeds commonly called pitbulls and yes an American Bully is more commonly called a pitbull over a staffy bull.

You say I have changed what I was saying and I have changed nothing. You are still in denial that people refer to the American Bully as pitbulls. lol

You are trying to turn this thread into classified breeds and it has nothing to do with that.

However I am not going to sit and argue with you. If you don't think people call American Bullies pitbulls that will just be your little secret.

Oh an no one was using google for education. Simply PROVING the point that American Bullies are commonly referred to as pitbulls by a large majority of people..


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

More proof to what I pointed out....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_Bull

It's just funny to me how bully enthusiast bully their way into history and into legitamacy. I'm sure, hopefully, one day Am Bullies will actually be a uniformed breed in temperment, standard, and genetics but today aint that day. You have people that claim that "pocket pits" is actually a breed and that it is a breed of "pit bulls". Do you also agree with that?

At the end of the day Am Bullies or what ever you want to call them are dogs and I love dogs but don't misinform people or in some cases out right lie just to legitamize your dog.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> More proof to what I pointed out....
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_Bull
> 
> ...


Are you serious... I am really starting to think you can't read.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT AMERICAN BULLIES ARE PITBULLS!!!
THERE ARE NOT BREEDS OF PITBULLS!
THE AMERICAN PITBULL TERRIER IS THE ONLY PITBULL.

Anything else is just a breed that gets referred to as a pitbull.

You get that part??

I have stated very clearly that they are not pitbulls, but you seem to be having a very hard time understanding that.

But people still call them pitbulls, that is why we where clarifying the difference.

You are so stuck on your "American Bullies aren't pitbulls" trip that you are not paying any attention to what has been said or what is being discussed thats why I closed the thread.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Wow..... Every year it gets worse. I said and only said that the "three" breeds are what they are and that Am Bullies are not one of those "three" nor are they a breed. I didn't say that people don't refer to them as "pit bulls". People refer to Dogos as "pit bulls" as well and they are incorrect but atleast Dogos are a breed. Do you know what the definition of "breed" is? Pocket pits are refered to as "pit bulls", are they a breed?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Ok since you oviously have no idea of what was being disscused in this thread let me refresh you..



american_pit13 said:


> There is one type of pitbull and that is the American Pitbull Terrier. Now you also have the Amstaff and American Bully reffered to as pitbulls. Pitbull is a common term given to several breeds of dog.


Then she said



Lex's Guardian said:


> Thanks for clarifying. What I've gathered so far is the difference with Ambullies from APBT's & Amstaff's are the snout are shorter with more of a bulldog appearance, is this so?


Then I said



american_pit13 said:


> The main difference in the 3 are size. Weight and height.
> 
> The APBT is the original and meant to be a slender performance dog.
> The Amstaff is a show version of the APBT that has been bred and bit thicker and to AKC standards as the AKC doesn't except the APBT.
> The American Bully is newer and varies quite alot in size and structure. The American Bully is a cross of APBT and Amstaff with the mixing in of Mastiff and other breeds.


And then you come in talking about Staffy Bulls which no one was talking about and just wanting to argue about American Bullies.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

> That is your opinion. They have a registry and a standard. They are a breed. Whether you like them or not is fine and you don't have to except them as a breed, but they are a breed now none the less and ar starting to develop consistency as a breed.
> 
> Also we where not talking about the Stafforshire Terrier here.
> 
> *You add that in and are making it part of "3" breeds...Breeds of what? We where talking about dogs commonly called pitbulls, the Staffy Bull is rarely ever called a pitbull*.


Those are your words....



> You are so stuck on your "American Bullies aren't pitbulls" trip that you are not paying any attention to what has been said or what is being discussed thats why I closed the thread


No, you are apprehensive about bullies thats why you closed the thread. I said that Am Bullies are not a "breed". Never said anything about them being or not being "pit bulls" or related to "pit bulls". There are a lot of dogs classified as bullies or as an Am Bully that are actually 100% APBT by blood. I said that Am Bully is not a "breed".


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

If England didn't out law dog fighting when they did all of these dogs would most likely be call "Pit Bull Terriers" The name Pit Bull Terrier came from England long before any dog was called APBT. The breed is originally an English breed. Not here to argue with you bro but it is obvious that you need to do some research. It's impossible to know where you are going if you don't know where you have come from.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Now it is a bit late and its about time for me to go to bed. No hard feelings towards you or anyone else or towards Am Bullies. The truth is the truth and history is what it is. We can definitely carry on this discussion tomorrow or if you feel I high jacked a thread we can start a new one.


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

so how bout them cowboys!?!?
nah jk but all good info and all good points guys


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> I said that Am Bullies are not a "breed".


EXACTLY.

You came in to start an argument over whether Ambullies are a breed or not.

This thread is talking about the color difference in APBTS, Amstaffs and American Bullies.

If you want to debate with people over whether American Bullies are a breed start your own thread.

That is not what this thread is about and thats why it was closed because you can't stay on the topics that where being discussed by the original poster.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> If England didn't out law dog fighting when they did all of these dogs would most likely be call "Pit Bull Terriers" The name Pit Bull Terrier came from England long before any dog was called APBT. The breed is originally an English breed. Not here to argue with you bro but it is obvious that you need to do some research. It's impossible to know where you are going if you don't know where you have come from.


How does that make me need to do research? That makes no seance. I know the history of the pitbull and how it came to be.

This thread has nothing to do with the history of the APBT. :hammer::hammer:

You just keep posting stuff that has nothing to do with what we are all discussing trying to make yourself look smart.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Yes and they would actually have to be a "breed" to be one of the "three breeds" right? Bro if you can't see it by now you will never see it. I made a comment that the three breeds are what they are and that Am Bully isn't one of the "three". You called me out on it and I had to prove what I said. I didn't start any arguement. It's okay to say that you are wrong sometimes. It makes us better people when we admit our mistakes.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

No bro I made a correction to what others were saying and assuming. You took offense to it and called me out.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

No that is not what happened lol

You quoted me telling me I was wrong about my post of these 3 breeds that the OP specifically asked for the differences in



Lex's Guardian said:


> What I've gathered so far is the difference with *Ambullies from APBT's & Amstaff's* are the snout are shorter with more of a bulldog appearance, is this so?


I told her the differences in the Breeds she asked about and then you came in with your Staffy Bull info which was not a breed she asked about.

Your replay to my post that you quoted


Alex004 said:


> This is correct except one thing... It amazing to see how the times have change. The "three" breeds and only "three" breeds are *APBT, Am Staff, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier*. Am Bully is not a breed. It is a concoction. A mixture of breeds or hybrid. (Mutt)


You came after MY post telling me I was wrong with the explanation of the difference in the 3 that she asked about. Not the 3 that you want to include, the 3 that the original poster asked about.

She didn't ask what the difference in tha APBT, Amstaff, and Staffy bull was, she asked what the difference in the American Bully, Amstaff, and APBT was. So I gave her the answer to the difference and you quoted me telling me I was wrong.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

> This thread is talking about the color difference in APBTS, Amstaffs and American Bullies.


You have gone as far as putting words in the mouth of the person that started this thread...

This is the original post....


> I've been reading numerous threads & the thought just crossed me. What are the true natural colors for APBT's, AST's & what was the third one? There are 3 different types of pit bull, right?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> You have gone as far as putting words in the mouth of the person that started this thread...


Oh ok I guess she never asked about American Bullies my bad:hammer:

Sure seems Like I see the words AmBully in here but I guess I can't read her post right. I guess she never mentioned AmBullies, she must have said Staffy Bull and I am just not reading it right.



Lex's Guardian said:


> What I've gathered so far is the difference with *Ambullies from APBT's & Amstaff's *are the snout are shorter with more of a bulldog appearance, is this so?


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> Oh ok I guess she never asked about American Bullies my bad:hammer:
> 
> Sure seems Like I see the words American Bully in here but I guess I can't read her post right. I guess she never mentioned American Bullies, she must have said Staffy Bull and I am just not reading it right.


get your dang glasses on and get with the program gosh


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

She was told that the the other breed was the Am Bully. Her original question was what was the other breed besides APBT and Am Staff. Stop trying to play devil's advocate you're only making yourself look bad.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> She was told that the the other breed was the Am Bully. Her original question was what was the other breed besides APBT and Am Staff. Stop trying to play devil's advocate you're only making yourself look bad.


She couldn't remember the name of the breed she was thinking of, you can't just say that she was talking about Staffy bulls. How bout this when she comes on she can solve all this by confirming whether American Bully or Staffy bull was the other breed she was trying to name.

Since she continued on about American Bullies everyone assumed that was the other breed she was thinking of. You can't choose the 3rd breed she had in her mind.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

> Since she continued on about American Bullies everyone assumed that was the other breed she was thinking of. You can't choose the 3rd breed she had in her mind.


You just did....

But if she was thinking of another breed but couldn't remember its name how does that still make what ever breed she was thinking of correct? What if Dogo is what she was thinking of? Bro the only three that have always been "pit bulls" are the three that I have proved. I proved it with wikipedia, with BSLs across the world, and with all of Richard Stratton and other APBT book author's accounts. The term "Pit Bull Breeds" have been around long before Am Bullies were even thought of. If some one said the three are APBT, Am Staff, Staff Bull, and now Am Bully I would have had nothing to say because they would have been correct even though I personally don't classify Am Bully as a breed some people do. But Staff Bull was completely left out and the Am Bully in it's place. That's why I said you were correct except for one part. Am Bully is not a part of the *"three"*.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex004 said:


> You just did....
> 
> But if she was thinking of another breed but couldn't remember its name how does that still make what ever breed she was thinking of correct?


Because if that had not been the breed she was thinking of I am sure she would have said " no thats not the one" rather than continuing with questions about that breed:hammer:

What do you mean correct? You can't be correct about 3 breeds she was thinking about. No one mentioned Staffy bull becasue it was not likely that staffy bull was what she was asking about. Had it been Staffy bull I am sure when we said American bully she would have said no the small one, or made sure to tell us that was not the breed she was asking about.

She was asking about 3 breeds that she thought where pitbull types, not 3 breeds you think are pitbull types.

We mentioned another breed and obviously its what she was after since she asked questions about that breed.

Also where you said I was wrong she Specifically said what is the difference between Ambully, APBT, and Amstaff.

I can't be wrong about 3 breeds that she specifically asked about lol..



Alex004 said:


> Am Bully is not a part of the *"three"*.


I think its funny that you get to say what 3 she was asking about. I guess since you say that she was not asking about ambullies that means she wasn't.



Lex's Guardian said:


> What I've gathered so far is the difference with *Ambullies from APBT's & Amstaff's* are the snout are shorter with more of a bulldog appearance, is this so?


I guess she just meant Staffy Bull here.. Since Amstaff, APBT, and Staffy Bull are the only 3 dogs ever called pitbulls, so that must be the only 3 dogs she could have been asking about

I just really wonder why she continued with American Bully if that wasn't the breed she was thinking about...Hmmmmmm


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Any dog can be a pit bull. Well, they could try...


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

man..... listen bro. You are going to work for me in the morning because you got me up with this craziness. I don't know what time it is where you are but it's 3:30 am where I am!

She didn't know what the third one was. She even asked if there are "three". Even if she thought the third one was a bully she is still worng. She asked: _*"What are the true natural colors for APBT's, AST's & what was the third one? There are 3 different types of pit bull, right?"*_. If she thougt is was Am Bully, or you, or everyone else on this board it's still wrong. All APBTs, all AM Staffs, and all Staff Bulls are gentically the same type of dog therefore they are all technically "pit bulls". If an APBT or Amstaff is bred with an American Bulldog or Mastiff to create a "Bully" then how is it still the same as a "pit bull"? Therefore it couldn't be one of the three but that wasn't even what I was getting at because some people have classified pure bred deformed APBTs as Am Bullies and registered them with ABKC. My point was that Am Bully is not one of the "three" and never was.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

So even if she didn't ask the question and she stated the "three" breeds are Am Bully, APBT, and Am Staff I would have still stated the correct three and told her she was wrong.

Now I am going to my bed. It was great and if you like we can do it again tomorrow but I gotta go.....


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Alex004 said:


> Seems you need to go back to bulldog school before you become an official on a bulldog board. History is fact not "my" opinion.
> 
> It's obvious that you haven't been around too long as far as APBTs are concerned. You should think about getting some knowledge under your belt before you take on the responsibility of a board moderator. APBTs have been a recognized breed in America from 1898. The Am Staff and Staff Bull since 1934. When did an "Am Bully" get recognition?


This is a personal attack and will not be tolerated. Let me give you some pointers to keep you around longer. Do not carry on arguments to this point both of you are wrong for that. You kept provoking her with your words and she went on the defensive. There are a few members here that have done the same and they were banned for always turning a dicussion to an agrument, or they are on the naughty list because they have been warned about this childish behavior several times and next time could be the last.
It is ok to disagree but to let a thread go down hill like this serves no point.

Ya both are wrong, how's that!
Look there are 4 breeds of pit bulls now APBT, AST,ASBT, and AMbullies. AMbullies are a new breed with a breed standard and conformations shows held to that standard. That constitutes a new breed; they are a designer breed but their own breed. Look at the labradoodles, they started out as a mix and now have standards and are a real breed. This was not the point to reopen the thread and let it continue to this point.

You can argue that an AM Bully is not a breed till you are blue in the face and that is fine, that is your op not fact. Am Bullies are their own breed and are more common than true APBT's now. I hardly ever see a real APBT in my home town, they are all blue bullies and over 80lbs every where I go. That is why people think I have pit mixes because they are so small. Siren is 35lbs and they say what a cute lab/pit puppy. HA! So I think you both need to agree to disagree and there are 4 breeds of pit bulls whether you except it or not.


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

and just another thing to add, not all "american bullies" are deformed 100lb monstrosity's. there are good representations of the breed, as american_pit13 has and my pike. i dont think they are all tainted, but you seem to do, and that's all that matters right? lol. i wouldnt pick fights with people that have alot better reputations. its clear you think you know the world, but are a little apprehensive doing so. maybe its your tone that's throwing everyone off? hell i dont know---have a good day all lolz ---shane
oh and by the way....look at this 100% r.e. american bully----amazing that he fits "your standard" right? hard to think a mastiff is in there when he weighs 54lbs.....


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## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

Alex004 said:


> Yes and they would actually have to be a "breed" to be one of the "three breeds" right? Bro if you can't see it by now you will never see it. I made a comment that the three breeds are what they are and that Am Bully isn't one of the "three". You called me out on it and I had to prove what I said. I didn't start any arguement. It's okay to say that you are wrong sometimes. It makes us better people when we admit our mistakes.





Alex004 said:


> No bro I made a correction to what others were saying and assuming. You took offense to it and called me out.


Here is your correction.
American Bully Kennel Club - 2008


dan'sgrizz said:


> American Bully
> 
> Although its roots are firmly grounded in the crossbreeding craze of the mid-1990's, the American Bully is currently being promoted as a new pure breed apart from the American Pit Bull Terrier, under whose name it has been bred and sold for the past 15 years or so. Originally a result of crossing the APBT, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldog, Olde English Bulldogge, Bullmastiff, Dogue de Bordeaux, English Bulldog, Neapolitan Mastiff and various bandogges with the aim of developing a larger and heavier Pit Bull, this American creation has been very successful in gaining acceptance and popularity in its homeland, all while its breeders firmly maintained that their dogs were pure American Pit Bull Terriers. As with most bandogge programmes, the initial gain in size resulting from crossing a bull-n-terrier type dog with a larger mastiff breed quickly disappears in subsequent generations and the American Bully stock soon suffered from its breeders' desire to maintain their lines, with most present-day examples of the breed being much shorter than their ancestors. Even though considered an abomination and an insult to the great APBT breed by most Pit Bull enthusiasts, the lines which would eventually become what is now a separate breed carrying the American Bully name had arguably surpassed its original small gamebred parent breed in popularity, while helping create more confusion and misinformation about the APBT itself in the eyes of general public and the media. Unlike a true American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Bully hadn't been created for the fighting ring, although many of these dogs have been used for amateur level street fights by their ignorant and oftentimes criminal owners who believe them to be actual Pit Bulls, but the greatest blow the APBT breed has been dealt has been the promotion of these dogs which were commonly misrepresented as actual Pit Bull Terriers as good property guardians and protection dogs in the United States. With the massive popularity of what was the "alternative Pit Bull" type at the time, coupled with a long streak of indiscriminate breeding of these dogs who often ended up in the wrong hands, the incidence of attacks on humans with the APBT receiving the blame and its current media-fueled notoriety as a dangerous breed has also been steadily rising.
> 
> ...


So yes the Am Bully is a breed. It has it's own standard and pedigree. *This is fact and is no longer and issue.*


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Oh boy... Fact of the matter is over the internet a person cannot see the other person's expression or hear their tone when they reply to a post. People take things out of context. I admit some times my words can be sarcastic. If that offended anyone I apologize. 

You guys aren't getting the picture. The reason for the terminology "pit bull breeds" is becasue of three different Kennel clubs registering the breed under three different names. That is the only reason why "pit bull breeds" is used in BSL or in any dialog. Am Bullies aren't one of the "three" "pit bull breeds" becase they are mixed with "pit bulls" and not a full "pit bull" Dogo's have a touch of Staff Bull in their creation of the breed but they are not a "pit bull breed". If KC in England and AKC both regitered their dogs as APBTs or if AKC, UKC, and ADBA registered their dogs as Staff Bulls and so on there would be no terminology as "pit bull breeds" Do you get what I am saying?

Let me use another example since people tend to get personal when we use the name pit bull...

Rottweilers originate from Germany right? Now if when they came to America UKC registered them as American Rotting Mastiff, and AKC registered it as the American German Rotter, and in France they registered them as Rotting Rovers there would be a common term calling them the "Rottweiler Breeds". They are still basically the same breed of dog although they might tend to slightly change in apperance over the years due to different club standards and so on as even modern day Rottweilers from different parts of the world do. But if I take a Rottweiler and breed it with a Doberman it cannot be a "Rottweiler Breed" any longer. It has become something completely different. Yes it has Rottweiler in it but it is no longer a Rottweiler. Just as Bully The Kidd said on that Bully radio station... " If I take a Doberman and breed it with other dogs to get a white dog with purple pokadots on it it is no longer a Doberman nor can it be classified as a Doberman Breed. Am Bullies can be classified as a type of bulldog or a bulldog breed and that is rightfully what they are but not as a "pit bull" breed. They don't "pit" nor were they ever created to "pit". They are more of a bulldog than they are a "pit bull". I can almost be certain that if the American Bulldog didn't exsist as a breed then that is what these dogs would have been called.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

This is all your opinion on what you think should be called a "pit bull" then how about we call them bully breeds? That covers the boxer, bulldogs, and everything in between. Will that make everyone happy?


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

I agree that with most that Am Bullies are seperate from what any of the three pit bull breeds are and that is what they have to do actually get recognition as a breed. If not the out side world will always classify them as pit bull mixes. As far as getting away from the stigma of the APBT I highly doubt it can be done. For the simple reason that almost all of the BSL cover types of dogs like the Am Bully by stating any dog mixed with any of the three breeds of pit bulls that look more like a pit bull than the other breed they are mixed with. Our best bet as a community is for ABKC to form their breed properly and promote it as a type of bulldog just as the APBT is a type of bulldog not as a type of pit bull. When that is done APBT folks, Staff Bull folks, and Am Staff folks won't have their panties in a bunch any longer and we can move on and unite as a community affected by BSLs. The UK does it so why can't we? In the UK the calssify English Bull Terriers stnadard and miniature, Stafford Bulls, Irish Staffs,APBTs, American Bulldogs, all types of English Bulldogs, and even the Boston Terriers and French Bulldogs as Bully breeds and they are one community that show together and advocate together as bulldog type breeds.

The arguements will never end until the bully community lets go of the pit bull name. A pit bull is a specific type of dog and not a group of dogs. The only reason why there ois three different names is because two kennel clubs wanted nothing to do with dog fighting and refused to register the dogs with the word "pit" in it. Bulldogs are a group of dogs that pit bulls amoung a lot of other breeds are a part of.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

There were 3 pit bull type dogs now there are 4 with the AM bully. End of story! Am bullies were bred from APBT. They are still registered as APBT I don;t see who you can deny they are a pit bull type dog. An AST sure as hell is not a pit dog but it still is consider a pit bull type dog.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> This is all your opinion on what you think should be called a "pit bull" then how about we call them bully breeds? That covers the boxer, bulldogs, and everything in between. Will that make everyone happy?


Performancekennels that's exactly what it should be. This is why APBT folks are pissed. The reason why mosy bully breeders held on to the name "pit bull" is because the name "pit bull" sells. "Pit Bull" attracts attention and we all know that. That's why the breed is in so much problems. When a Dogo or a Cane Corso attacks some one and the news media says its a "pit bull" you don't think they know exactly what breed of dog it actuall is? They damn well know but the words "pit bull" draws attraction. They look like pit bulls so the public won't know any better....

This is why APBT folks take offense to bullies being called "pit bulls". Not to say bullies cause any trouble but we know what our breed is from what it isn't and we take pride in that. Now when a group of people come along and create a mixed pit bull dog bacuase they want a bigger or more robust looking dog then fine but when you start calling it a "pit bull" or a type of "pit bull" people will be upset about that and react. Just like if I take Rottweilers and shrink them into a type of lowriding Rottweiler that only weights 40 lbs and start calling a Rottweiler or type of rottweiler you don't think the Rottweiler community would be in a uproar?


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> There were 3 pit bull type dogs now there are 4 with the AM bully. End of story! Am bullies were bred from APBT. They are still registered as APBT I don;t see who you can deny they are a pit bull type dog. An AST sure as hell is not a pit dog but it still is consider a pit bull type dog.


No you guys want them to be "pit bulls" so you can sell them as such. You say who am I to deny a breed but who are you to give it??? The rules don't apply to bully folk? It's a two way street baby. So you guys can just come in and take what you want and everyone is supposed to just give? It doesn't go like that my brother and that is why APBT people will never give you guys the pleasure of carrying the pit bull name.

"Lex's Guardian", the answer to your question is that the three pit bull breeds are APBT, Am Staff, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Anything else is a mixed breed dog. As far as the color scheme goes for those three breeds you can check on UKC's web site: http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/WebPages/Home
AKC's web site: http://www.akc.org/
and KC's web site: http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

well you have a good point of internet expression because words cant be heard and it's very hard to interpret how someone is coming off. I will def give you that and your apology is accepted  (from me at least lol) but my next question would be, what about the american bullies that were never tainted, a true cross from apbt/amstaff lines. Then, would they still not be a "pitbull" type dog? i agree, most are clearly evident that other breeds, sometimes many, are in the mix. But what if... ---shane


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Alex004 said:


> No you guys want them to be "pit bulls" so you can sell them as such. You say who am I to deny a breed but who are you to give it??? The rules don't apply to bully folk? It's a two way street baby. So you guys can just come in and take what you want and everyone is supposed to just give? It doesn't go like that my brother and that is why APBT people will never give you guys the pleasure of carrying the pit bull name.


1) Performance is a lady
2) she owns only apbts and pitterstaffs... not one am bully. with this post you're barking up the wrong tree.
3) she works hands on with all types of bulldogs every day since she's a professional trainer


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

vdubbinya said:


> well you have a good point of internet expression because words cant be heard and it's very hard to interpret how someone is coming off. I will def give you that and your apology is accepted  (from me at least lol) but my next question would be, what about the american bullies that were never tainted, a true cross from apbt/amstaff lines. Then, would they still not be a "pitbull" type dog? i agree, most are clearly evident that other breeds, sometimes many, are in the mix. But what if... ---shane


Good point!!! That's why I said earlier that I don't consider Am Bully a breed because some of the dogs registered as Am Bullies are actually APBTs or Am Staffs, then you have some dogs registered as Am Bully that are APBT mixed with Bulldog, or with a Mastiff. There is no consistency in their application of their "breed". It's a looks thing. No matter how the dog is bred if it looks a certain way then it is a "Bully". That is not what a "breed" of dog is its more complex than just looks.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> 1) Performance is a lady
> 2) she owns only apbts and pitterstaffs... not one am bully. with this post you're barking up the wrong tree.
> 3) she works hands on with all types of bulldogs every day since she's a professional trainer


It matters not what she owns or if she owns any dogs at all. She is advocating that Am Bullies are a breed and that they are one of the "pit bull breeds".


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

could you please explain to me the English Bulldog, the Maltese, the pekignese lord there's alot of them? what's their purpose? Just because you have a little RE in their pedigree does not mean that they are Am. Bully. These dogs started from show Am Staff lines.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> could you please explain to me the English Bulldog, the Maltese, the pekignese lord there's alot of them? what's their purpose? Just because you have a little RE in their pedigree does not mean that they are Am. Bully. These dogs started from show Am Staff lines.


Read what I wrote two posts above you...


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

My arguement to this is, why in your definition of a new breed does an animal have to be only the APBT and the Am Staff that make it Am. Bully? Mastiff dogs are not part of what the true Am Bully is. The Am. Bully is a concoction of current day bulldogs which does not include the EB. The real Am. Bully has a set appearance. Not every breed has been bred for performance.

I'm sorry shane, but since your dog only has a little RE in his pedigree, to me it doesn't classify him as an Am. Bully.


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## Alex004 (Mar 11, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> My arguement to this is, why in your definition of a new breed does an animal have to be only the APBT and the Am Staff that make it Am. Bully? Mastiff dogs are not part of what the true Am Bully is. The Am. Bully is a concoction of current day bulldogs which does not include the EB. The real Am. Bully has a set appearance. Not every breed has been bred for performance.
> 
> I'm sorry shane, but since your dog only has a little RE in his pedigree, to me it doesn't classify him as an Am. Bully.


I don't have a definition of new breed. What I am saying is in order for Am Bully to be a "breed" the dogs have to be consistently produced. A set line of dogs has to be produce before you call it a breed and start a registry. If that is what has been done then only those set of dogs can be call Am Bullies and be registered as such. ABKC is registering full APBTs, full Am Staffs, Am Staff x APBT, APBT x Staff Bull, Am Staff x Am Bull, APBT x Am Bulldog, Am Staff x French Mastiff, Am Staff x Bull Mastiff, etc... as Am Bullies. That isn't a breed of dog. 
If like you say is true that there is a true founder of true Am Bullies that are only bred a certain way then those are the only dogs that should be registered with ABKC as Am Bully.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Alex004 said:


> I don't have a definition of new breed. What I am saying is in order for Am Bully to be a "breed" the dogs have to be consistently produced. A set line of dogs has to be produce before you call it a breed and start a registry. If that is what has been done then only those set of dogs can be call Am Bullies and be registered as such. ABKC is registering full APBTs, full Am Staffs, Am Staff x APBT, APBT x Staff Bull, Am Staff x Am Bull, APBT x Am Bulldog, Am Staff x French Mastiff, Am Staff x Bull Mastiff, etc... as Am Bullies. That isn't a breed of dog.
> If like you say is true that there is a true founder of true Am Bullies that are only bred a certain way then those are the only dogs that should be registered with ABKC as Am Bully.


I agree there should only be certain dogs registered within the ABKC, but just like every other registry on this planet their wallets are not prejustice. The ABKC now reconizes a few different breeds. With all of the paper hanging going on in the world anyone can really slap the RE name when they fill out their UKC puppy certificate. I wish that people would stick with their ethics at least to give the creator of a litter the name rights. It would be much easier if we didn't have Smith's Billy Jean bred to John's Pearly Gates and give the puppies the name of Morris's Poppa Smurf, when Billy Jean and Pearly Gates came from Adam's yard. It would really help newbs find out where their dogs come from. I don't believe in changing the kennel's name on a dogs unless I produce at the minimum of 3 generations from them. That's when I believe I've earned the right to put my name on the papers. I have heard it takes like 6 or 8 generations to "make" your own bloodline. I could be wrong on the number, but i for darn sure know it isn't the first pup you buy from a breeder who has taken years of work into the litter before they were even concieved.

I would not have ventured into getting an Am. Bully without finding the best. It's not my style. I was burnt bad from the breeder i got my APBT from. If I were to ever get an APBT again, it would be straight from the horse, the Colby family... whatever type of dog you get it's best to cut around the middle man if at all possible. Since my APBT incident I look for the most reputable person, if they don't have anything available they are more than likely nice enough to point you in the right direction of a close friend who has the same morals and type of dog.


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

little r.e. neela? explain ? i was under the impression that he's 100% r.e., given all the dogs that i have read dave speak of his foundation dogs, are all in my ped....
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [249575] :: DOWDY'S PIKE


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

checkin' it out now


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Shane I was wrong  I thought at one point I looked at your ped and it was similar to Neelas. She's the female version of your boy lol. she does have RE in her, but other stuff too.


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