# Question about my pups bloodline?



## AdrianGtz (Dec 28, 2010)

The breeder I bought her from said she was Avant and Las Vegas Red, never got to look into bloodline till I saw this forum. She's purebred American Pitbull Terrier but is Avant and Las Vegas Red. Anyone know of any of the two?


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## bubbas'-owner (Feb 13, 2011)

i never heard of them have u tried googlein em


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## d21hardbody (Dec 12, 2010)

my pup has Avant in his bloodline also. but he is a bully. hope this is of some help.


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## DoggyStyle (Jan 8, 2011)

Never heard of vegas red


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Avant is an American Bully bloodline 
MR. AVANT'S 100% PIT BULLS
I could not find anything on Las Vegas red but it too sounds like a bully bloodline but maybe someone has a picture of them.
So if your dog is part avant he is not a purebred American Pit Bull Terrier your dog is an American Bully. It can be misleading if you have ADBA or UKC paperwork because it says APBT but that is due to paper hanging in the Am Bully. Do some research on bully lines so you can understand what breed you have and can now call them as such. You can also have the registry do a pedigree analysis for you to see what other lines are in your ped or you can order a 7 generation pedigree.


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## AdrianGtz (Dec 28, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> Avant is an American Bully bloodline
> MR. AVANT'S 100% PIT BULLS
> I could not find anything on Las Vegas red but it too sounds like a bully bloodline but maybe someone has a picture of them.
> So if your dog is part avant he is not a purebred American Pit Bull Terrier your dog is an American Bully. It can be misleading if you have ADBA or UKC paperwork because it says APBT but that is due to paper hanging in the Am Bully. Do some research on bully lines so you can understand what breed you have and can now call them as such. You can also have the registry do a pedigree analysis for you to see what other lines are in your ped or you can order a 7 generation pedigree.


Hmmm, then the paperwork and pedigree for my pup is all bs then :/ Cuz it says she's purebred. Ahh.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

If you have a ped then the dog is pure bred but it is not an APBT it would be an American Bully, due to the bloodlines. It gets confusing because some registries still register American Bullies as APBT's, you just have to look at the bloodline to see what breed the dog really is. Does that make sence?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

AdrianGtz said:


> Hmmm, then the paperwork and pedigree for my pup is all bs then :/ Cuz it says she's purebred. Ahh.


Most BYB's have no clue what they are breeding and if they sold that dog as a APBT then they had no clue what type of dog they have. Bullies came from APBT's but to gain size and certian extreme looks they added in other breeds and did what is called paper hanging. For example they bred a mastiff with a APBT to gain size but registered them as APBT's and lied about breeding to that mastiff. Thus breeding what we know today as American Bullies. There is more to that story and as you do research you will learn how the bully came about. 
Lets use your Avant part of your bloodline as an example

Here is a dog from Avant himself that he calls a pit bull








Notice the wide chest, short legs, huge head with huge lips? None of those are in the breed standard for American Pit Bull Terriers but they are standard in the ABKC or the Bully breed club.

Here is an American Pit Bull Terrier 








This is one of my dogs who is not gamebred but a fine example of an APBT. Now compare the two dogs and do you see the difference, can you tell they are not the same breed?

Here is one of my gamebred dogs








a little different from the one above but you can tell they are the same breed and they both still fit the standard for an APBT.

Here is another one of my dogs just as another example of different bloodline but still an APBT that fits the standard.









Here is the ADBA Standard, it is not the full standard but you get the point.
Overall Appearance 20 points
A. Conforming to breed type
1. Should look like an American Pit Bull Terrier from across the ring
2. Sturdy, three dimensional. Giving the impression of strength, not slight or frail.
3. Appears square, with heavy boned, solid front end with a light and springy back end.
4. Should look athletic, not bulky. Musculature should be smooth but defined.
5. Presentation of an adult dog should be of a lean, exercised animal showing a hint of rib and backbone (without hipbones
showing) with muscles firm and defined. Clean, glossy coat with short trimmed nails. Presentation of dogs in the puppy
classes should be of a well nourished puppy, showing no ribs, backbone or hips. Coat should be glossy with short, trimmed
nails.
B. Balance
1. Equal angulation of front and rear assembly - judged best at the trot.
2. Height to weight ratio - the tallest dog at a given weight
3. Head size in proportion to the body, with a neck long enough to have the head appear above the top of the back when head
is in a normal upright position.

Here is the ABKC (American Bully Kennel Club) standard, again part of it.

General Impression
The American Bully should give the impression of great strength for its size. Compact to medium/large size dog with a muscular body and blocky head. Powerful in it's movement and should display effortless movement at the same time. Keenly alive and alert to its surroundings. The American Bully should have the appearance of heavy bone structure with a Bully build and look.


They are two different breeds even though the ADBA and UKC still register them as APBT's for now. The reputable breeders are now using the proper registry the ABKC.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Also check out the Bullies 101 section on here. Not sure who's running it at the moment but Loud Mouf might be able to shed some more light on your pup's ped.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Avant is a big bloodline in Texas and yes it is Bully. They are typically red dogs and from everything I have read on them several have really bad ankle problems. I'll post more in a minute.


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## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

this is a catch 22 scenario as the bully breeders once again pawn off crap
dogs as pit bulls,... and on the flip side you have an individual who's been 
hoodwinked by the media, and didn't research before buying. what does that
lead too? an unhappy owner, and a lesson learned once again through pain
and loss of time and money. next time put in the man hours of researching
purebred dogs for future reference and this wouldn't have happened.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Found a few dogs with Vegas red in them I don't know if this is any consistent line or just pieces here and there

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [48048] :: HOLT'S VEGAS RED ODIN


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [190793] :: HOLTS VEGAS RED CALIFORNIA


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [186054] :: HOLT'S VEGAS RED RUBY


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [48047] :: HOLT'S VEGAS RED NOVA


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

From everything I am seeing and reading the holts stuff is based off the castillo bloodline I am sure mr avant might have used this blood as the foundation of his line which is where you may see a few of these dogs posted above shown in your dogs ped way back. Anyway you own an American bully.

Here is a dog with some avant and holts Vegas red Odin is in the 4th generation

http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=263293


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

The Avant bloodline was started by MT Avant and a few kennels in Austin, Texas breed 100% Avant. Most 100% Avant dogs are often Easty Westy and not conform to ABKC standard. Like I said in my earlier post they have ankle problems. Now I have seen some Avant/Gaff crosses that are very nice. It stems from Camelot blood from what I have seen and it can be found mixed with RE, Gotti, Watchdog etc. Avant did have a game dog at one time. 

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [1853] :: AVANT'S ALIEN

As for the Las Vegas Red, Sadie posted everything that I found on it.

Avant Dog


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Apparently this avant guy also used to match dogs

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: OFFSPRING :: AVANT'S ALIEN :: [1853]


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I am pretty sure this is the same avant lol based on all the dogs I traced back flipping through pedigrees

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [194309] :: AVANT'S SUSIE


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [30468] :: A'VANT'S SEIDI


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Sadie said:


> Apparently this avant guy also used to match dogs
> 
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: OFFSPRING :: AVANT'S ALIEN :: [1853]


This dog alien is actually the brother to steves ch bullshit

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [8966] :: STEVE'S BULLSHIT (3XW)(1XLG)

A better looking avant bred dog before they got out of control this guy has some benedict in there as well.

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [301692] :: TPC'S CASANOVA


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

So I guess it depends on what dogs are in this guys ped if the dog is bully or not. If it had some of those gamebred dogs in the ped and then the navada red which is castillo then he could have an APBT. Since Avent is breeding bullies now I would guess he has a bully. Can you post the dogs in your ped? We might be able to do more research for you.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

His new pup does not look bully, maybe he came from his old stuff. Can you post the dogs in the ped?
http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/34177-been-while-back-pic-heavy.html


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Lisa I agree I want to see a ped ... Also I am checking up on Mr. Avant to make sure this is the same Avant and to get some history on him I will post up what I find out.


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## AdrianGtz (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks for all the info, I didn't see anything :/
Here's her ped


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I hate to be the barer of bad news but those paper's are useless .. The CKC is NOT a reputable registry so I honestly couldn't tell you one way or another. All I can say is love your dog and enjoy it. If you are ever looking for a show quality animal that you can work and show with a reputable registry we can point you in the right directions. Papers at the end of the day only mean so much the dog ALWAYS makes the papers


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

This dog is wrong on so many levels, i cant get over someone actualy thinks its worth taking a picture of.

Avant Dog 








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## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

i stand un-corrected. =]


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## Eric (Oct 21, 2010)

Wow. Those feet are horrible! Some of the worst splaying I've seen. Not to mention the easty-westy pointing. Yikes. Just looking at it is making me shake my head in disbelief/disapproval.

Gotta agree with you Junkyard. How someone could think that dog looks good enough for a picture is beyond me.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

CKC is a front registry for BYB's because you do not need a purebred dog to get paperwork. Back Yard Breeders use them because they are breeding dogs with known pedigree or lie what does were being bred. Sorry but you have a dog from unknown lines and I would bet a mixed breed along the way. I would also think bully sine they are notorious for CKC papers.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Eric said:


> Wow. Those feet are horrible! Some of the worst splaying I've seen. Not to mention the easty-westy pointing. Yikes. Just looking at it is making me shake my head in disbelief/disapproval.
> 
> Gotta agree with you Junkyard. How someone could think that dog looks good enough for a picture is beyond me.


Forget the fact that they are taking pictures but breeding that animal as well


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## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

CKC = cur kennel club


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

I guess the good news is that it's still a nice looking pup. The older bitch is a cracker too!


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