# Dog food Vs table food???



## Jaylexi248 (Dec 29, 2009)

okay, my pup has been itching alot lately and shes 9 weeks old...right now i have her on Balance Small Bites Potato & Duck Formula Dog Food and some people have been telling me to give her cooked rice and chicken for a while until the itching goes away then start her on a different dog food. Is it safe to change her to cooked table food? will it be hard to get her back on her dog food? i just dont want her to go fat and lazy because i want her to get real big when she gets older. what do you guys recommend?


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Cooked Chicken and Brown Rice is excellent for dogs, in fact if you look at the history of dogs, before there was dog food......you find a lot about nutrition for dogs.

We currently feed our 5 month old puppy:

A variety of meats - chicken, lamb (she does like as much), and sometimes beef (not my favorite, because it tends to be fatty.

Grains - Brown Rice (PLAIN oatmeal if we are out of rice)

A variety of veggies - brocolli is her favorite, carrotts (rarely, because its not the best for digestion), green beans, sometimes peas (not often)

Fruit - once a week (our dog like oranges and apples)

Oils - canola, fish, peanut, or my favorite -Alaskan Salome oil

Vitamins - for doggies

READ:
http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/10719-harmful-food-consumption-toxic-plants.html

When we first got Akasha she was itching and stuff - I had her on potatoe and duck formula and took her off. Started cooking her food and now she is finally not itching anymore. Currently we taking away the vitamins and adding Blue Buffalo - Discover the Best Dog Food and Cat Foods with our Pet Food Comparison Tools (but she isn't crazy for it, she doesn't like lamb and they don't have the variety here) - so we are going to add 
Taste of the Wild : Home

and then very slowly - introduce dry dog food again !


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## Crash pups person (Nov 3, 2009)

Table food is bad. Properly prepared raw is good just as the right choice in kibble is good ( but not _as_ good as raw ).

Also if you want to do a raw diet do not for the love of your dog cook it. It is making it useless by cooking out the nutrients just as most kibbles as well as enzymes. And for the love of all thats good in the world never feed cooked chicken! The bones in chicken are ok when raw but cooked is a disaster waiting to happen.

If you must cook the food make sure its boneless foods but in most cases that is what makes a dog sick on a diet such as this. You really need the enzymes and in the far run the dogs immune system as well as the digestive system over all will benefit from them being more and more present.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Crash pups person said:


> Table food is bad. Properly prepared raw is good just as the right choice in kibble is good ( but not _as_ good as raw ).
> 
> Also if you want to do a raw diet do not for the love of your dog cook it. It is making it useless by cooking out the nutrients just as most kibbles as well as enzymes. And for the love of all thats good in the world never feed cooked chicken! The bones in chicken are ok when raw but cooked is a disaster waiting to happen.
> 
> If you must cook the food make sure its boneless foods but in most cases that is what makes a dog sick on a diet such as this. You really need the enzymes and in the far run the dogs immune system as well as the digestive system over all will benefit from them being more and more present.


According to vets cooked chicken is good for dogs. However you can only use boneless chicken.....! If you cook it properly and add the proper vitamins it is prefectly acceptable to find this to the dog.

Dogs: Cooked Food Diet, natural raw diet, cooked chicken breast

http://www.blurtit.com/q3827032.html

Chicken Thighs Good For Dogs

Homemade Dog Food Recipes: Cooking for Your Canine After Pet Food Recall

See nothing wrong with cooked chicken or any kind of cooked meat. Accept for turkey and duck, which is no good for dogs period. As long as your not adding anything toxic in the meal, then its fine. Ask a vet if you are unsure !


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

What do vets know about nutrition? nothing!!!! as Crash pups person said a *balanced* raw diet is the best you can feed a dog if you can afford it... now I'm not saying cooked table scraps have not been feed to dogs but we now know a lot more about nutrition than we did years ago like when I was coming up.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Some food need to be cooked such as brown rice and oatmeal. Others parts of the diet should be raw the meat and veggies. I perfered to puree the veggies when I cooked for Chalice. I would take her squash and green beans and what ever else I used in the diet of the week( I would switch up the veggies as to cover all the vitamines) and puree it together. I would then mix this in with her rice and add the raw chicken. I only used amish raised chicken as I know this has no harmful steriods and antibiotics add to the chickens diet. An other thing I only used wingsand legs as these two parts have the erfect balance of calcium and phospherous. 

BTW my vet is big on nutrition and holistic medicine. So please do not lump all vet together. There are some goods ones you just have to lk for them.


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Ummm, study up on what it take's to be a vet... nutrition is not part of it... what part of being a vet requires nutrition? 

Not saying that some vets don't have common since but I've seen some collage educated nuts  

Book learning is one thing and common since is another 

Would you call science diet a good feed? How many vets calls it the best you can buy?


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Myth: VETS ARE THOROUGHLY QUALIFIED TO DISPENSE NUTRITIONAL ADVICE

This is a difficult issue that is guaranteed to offend some people, particularly those in the profession. Nevertheless, the harsh reality must be discussed. Should people fully trust the nutritional advice dispensed by their vets?

This myth is quite false. While veterinarians perform much-needed services for our pets, these services should not include a) selling pet food, and b) administering nutritional advice. Veterinarians receive very little nutritional training. The training they do receive is often advocated by or even administered by the pet food companies. Their nutritional training comes from the incorrect view that dogs are omnivores (see omnivore myth) and can safely be maintained on a grain-based diet, even when scientific research has proven that canines and felines have no evolved need for carbohydrates and fiber (see the Carbohydrates myth for further detail). That's right: dogs and cats do not need the carbohydrates that form the bulk of their processed foods. Perhaps that is why pets today are soft, doughy, and suffering from a variety of ailments linked to carbohydrate-rich, processed food (cancer, diabetes, arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, hyperactivity, seizures, etc. To read more about epilepsy and its relation to diet, please click here.).

Veterinarians are invariably linked to the commercial pet food industry. They advocate and even market commercial foods, receiving substantial revenue and kickbacks. The pet food companies make sure of this by promoting programs in the universities and by giving FREE FOOD to the up-and-coming vets to sell at their practices. For example, Colgate-Palmolive, the company that manufactures Hill's Science Diet, spends

"hundreds of thousands of dollars a year funding university research and nutrition courses at every one of the 27 US veterinary colleges. Once in practice, vets who sell Science Diet and other premium foods directly pocket profits of as much as 40%" (Parker-Pope, T. 1997. For You, My Pet. The Wall Street Journal. 3 November 1997. In Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones. p266).

The very profession is tied closely with commercial pet food companies at every turn. A tour of veterinary teaching hospitals or vet clinics shows equipment, products, and posters sponsored by and endorsing commercial foods and pharmaceutical companies. Vets are, in essence, paid for by the pet food and pharmaceutical companies, and are hardly in a position to offer sound nutritional advice. They are in direct violation of the oath and creed they swore to uphold: "First do no harm." In spite of this oath they are promoting foods detrimental to animals' health, advocating a product that will harm their patients and ensure a returning clientele and source of revenue. But remember: this is due in large part to the great lack in the education the universities have administered to them! Nothing but commercial pet food dogma is being repeated in university after university after university; these are institutions of higher learning where people are supposed to be thinking critically and evaluating things analytically, yet in reality are being told to shut off their common sense and ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence against commercial pet foods. Here is one excellent example of the ties veterinary universities and veterinarians themselves have with the pet food industry:

MSU Presents Partnership Award

"Topeka, Kan. - Michigan State University (MSU) College of Veterinary Medicine recently presented the 2004 Partnership Award to Hill's Pet Nutrition Inc.

"The award recognizes the working relationship between the MSU and Hill's.

"Hill's provides financial and educational support to nearly every veterinary college in North America, as well as to veterinary students attending those institutions. This commitment to the profession includes Hill's sponsored teaching programs, residencies and faculty programs in veterinary schools and teaching hospitals all over the world.

" 'Hill's is incredibly responsive to anything students or faculty have asked of them,' says Dr. Lonnie King, dean of the college of veterinary medicine at MSU. 'Their steadfast support, generosity and collaboration in advancing the college's mission is recognized as a vital part of our veterinary medicine program.'

"Hill's has shown its commitment to the partnership with MSU by providing support to many student groups and student activities; covering costs for students to attend the SCAVMA Symposium; providing students with the textbook Small Animal Clinical Nutrition and other various handouts; providing employment to student representatives; and by supporting the awards banquet for seniors graduating from the program."

-DVM News Magazine, August 2004 (emphasis added)

How are veterinarians supposed to be educated on proper nutritional practices when the very institutions from which they receive their instruction is in bed with the pet food companies? For an example of what occurs in vet school nutrition courses, please read the "A First Year Veterinary Student Comments" article in the Raw Meaty Bones 13 April 2004 Newsletter (scroll down about 3/4 of the way to see the article). For yet ANOTHER example of pet food company/veterinary alliances, visit the Purina.com site and check out Purina's Other Alliances.

Simply put, vets are not educated on proper nutrition; it was not until recently (past several decades) that pet owners started looking to their vets for advice on diet. Interestingly, this corresponded with the increase in commercial foods. Prior to the advent of commercial foods, people did not request nutritional advice from their veterinarians. Only after commercial foods arose did vets need nutritional training, and early vets also recommended feed fresh whole foods along with the dry 'biscuits' of the day (To read how kibble came about, click here.). Veterinarians today cite the nutritional deficiencies they see in their clinics as proof of raw diets being 'bad', but if you press them further, these deficiencies typically result from home-cooked diets or improperly formulated BARF diets, NOT prey model diets (which are the kind found in nature!). Interestingly, they may tell you to cook your dog's food, which will result in the kind of imbalances they see with "natural" diets that aren't formulated correctly. They then use this "evidence" to "prove" that home-made diets (into which they lump raw diets) are bad for your pets. Or they may tell you that 'science' has shown that raw diets are not good for our pets. Ask them: "what 'science'?" Press them for the answer, and what they tell you will most likely be nothing but pet food propaganda about salmonella poisoning in pets (undocumented in HEALTHY animals) or the 'reputable research' performed by pet food companies. Almost all of this research is undocumented, 'anecdotal' evidence or evidence that does not pertain to proper raw diets. For example, they will cite that all-meat diets create severe calcium deficiencies. This is true. But a proper raw diet is not all meat. A proper raw diet is a wonderful blend of meat, bone, and organs from a variety of sources.

Most veterinarians are highly qualified individuals; however, their qualifications are for surgery, conventional disease diagnosis and treatment, and conventional drug prescription, NOT for nutrition (although holistic vets are more aware of the importance of fresh raw foods in keeping animals healthy, and are also amenable to alternative therapies). Additionally, veterinarians need to respect their clients' wishes to feed a natural diet rather than berate them with pet-food company propaganda (also known as 'nutritional advice') each time they come in. Veterinarians and pet owners alike need to remember that veterinarians are consultants. A pet owner consults a vet when their pet has a specific problem or need. The pet owner pays the veterinarian's wages; the veterinarian works for them. A client is perfectly within their rights to deny treatments or request that things be done differently. Additionally, a client is perfectly within their rights to feed their dog a diet different than that which the veterinarian recommends, and a client is within their rights to ignore a vet's 'nutritional advice.' For a veterinarian to bully a client toward feeding a certain way or to blame the diet for every possible illness is unacceptable and demonstrates a lack of professionalism.

Even more unacceptable (downright heinous!) is for a veterinarian to refuse their services to a client because the client does not feed the diet the vet recommends, as is the case with a California Bay Area emergency clinic. During the summer of 2005, a raw-feeder brought her dog to the emergency clinic with a possible case of bloat (bloat is not only possibly genetic and food-related, but possibly vaccine-related as well.), and the attending veterinarian began to berate her for her choice to feed a raw diet instead of attending to her dog's possibly life-threatening situation. The raw-feeder requested a different veterinarian so as to avoid confrontation and receive an unbiased medical report; this second veterinarian proceeded to check her dog over thoroughly (as the first vet should have done), and came to his diagnosis (which was not bloat, but simple enteritis with no particular reference to diet issues.). Several days afterward, the raw-feeder received a letter from the clinic stating that she was no longer welcome as a client because she was reluctant to follow the advice of the first veterinarian, presumably regarding the raw diet. For an EMERGENCY clinic to act this way is tantamount to animal cruelty; their decision is punishing the dog (who is innocent and has no voice in all of this) for a well-informed choice his owner made to feed fresh foods. This is similar to refusing to treat a person for cancer or a heart attack because they ate processed foods instead of fresh whole foods like the doctors recommended (notice the irony in that what is recommended for humans-fresh whole foods-is the exact opposite of what is recommended for our pets.)! It is an unacceptable act of animal cruelty and an outright denial of the creed veterinarians must uphold.

Pet owners, you have every right to demand that your vet honor your decision to feed a raw diet. Make it known that your pet's diet is not up for negotiation unless you so choose. Unwarranted nutritional advice is not welcome, nor should it be necessary since you are paying for your vet's MEDICAL opinion, not nutritional opinion. Be aware that vets have been admonished to sufficiently inform their clients of the benefits and risks of various dietary practices. But considering how feeding fresh, raw foods to pets is NOT taught in veterinary school, their knowledge in this area will be very minimal, and will most likely be restricted to the negative aspects of raw diets (most of which are half-truths and myths, and are dealt with in these myth pages). After all, whenever studies on raw foods are published in publications like the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, the negative aspects (such as bacteria) are all that are researched (and not very well, I might add). The studies start out with a distinct bias that is seen in the way they are structured in addition to the topic they are studying, and rarely include good science that should involve scrupulous methods that can be repeated, large sample sizes, and a sound hypothesis.

Veterinarians and vet technicians: please respect the rights of your clients. Respect their wishes to feed a raw diet, and they will respect your skills as a trained professional. Be open to their choice to feed fresh whole foods to their pets instead of letting prejudices get in the way. When it comes to the welfare of their pet, you should be one of their strongest allies instead of one of their harshest enemies, particularly since you possess valuable knowledge and skills in emergency situations.

Myths About Raw: Is my vet really qualified to be giving nutritional advice?


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Jaylexi248 said:


> okay, my pup has been itching alot lately and shes 9 weeks old...right now i have her on Balance Small Bites Potato & Duck Formula Dog Food and some people have been telling me to give her cooked rice and chicken for a while until the itching goes away then start her on a different dog food. Is it safe to change her to cooked table food? will it be hard to get her back on her dog food? i just dont want her to go fat and lazy because i want her to get real big when she gets older. what do you guys recommend?


What do you mean by "I want her to get real big when she gets older". APBTs are not large dogs by design. They are a medium sized dog ranging from from 40-70 lbs by standard. If you were looking for a large dog you've chosen the wrong breed. Feeding a dog more might make them fat but you can't change a medium sized dog to a large breed by making them fat...


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## Czar (Nov 11, 2009)

some great info on here. was a good read


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

From everything I've read, cooked meat is extremely lacking in nutrition for dogs. Many vets, and people generally knowledgeable about dogs will recommend boiled chicken and rice for a sick dog. This often leads to the misconception that boiled chicken is a good protein source, however, the chicken is mostly to add flavor to the rice and encourage a sick dog to eat the rice, which fills it up, settles the stomach and provides valuable carbs. As dogs' digestive processes are very different from humans, food passes through much more quickly, and the dog doesnt break the cooked meat down thoroughly enough to get the same amount of protein as a human would. If you want to take a vet's advice on nutrition, please seek out a holistic vet, or a vet who has specifically studied canine nutrition. While most vets can make some common sense generalizations about canine nutrition, most are lacking in this area. Please consider that vets are trained to study such a broad spectrum of species and ailments (which humans would see specialists for) that often certain subjects are breezed through. I have known people to lose bulldogs (EBs) during routine surgery because many vets have no idea how to properly anestetize (sp?) brachycephalic dogs. Ask your vet if he has specifically studied nutrition, another sure fire way to determine if his opinion is valid is to ask him what food he recommends. If he suggests science diet, look for a new vet for nutritional advice. Search for some of our old threads on feeding raw, there are some great raw diets recommended.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Marty said:


> What do vets know about nutrition? nothing!!!! as Crash pups person said a *balanced* raw diet is the best you can feed a dog if you can afford it... now I'm not saying cooked table scraps have not been feed to dogs but we now know a lot more about nutrition than we did years ago like when I was coming up.


How is cooked chicken table scraps? Yes its true that the good stuff is cooked out of the chicken....but what is so wrong about it? Yeah raw is better for dogs (that's if they eat it, ours won't), but if you add the proper nutrients to the food it makes it better right? I'm not talking about table scraps here, I'm talking about a cooked balanced meal ! I'm not talking about a meal that we cooked for ourselves, packed with fat and calories. With a little BBQ sauce and some onions, NO.....Obviously I'm mis-informed here and so are a lot of other people who feed there dogs chicken and rice.....


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

FloorCandy said:


> From everything I've read, cooked meat is extremely lacking in nutrition for dogs. Many vets, and people generally knowledgeable about dogs will recommend boiled chicken and rice for a sick dog. This often leads to the misconception that boiled chicken is a good protein source, however, the chicken is mostly to add flavor to the rice and encourage a sick dog to eat the rice, which fills it up, settles the stomach and provides valuable carbs. As dogs' digestive processes are very different from humans, food passes through much more quickly, and the dog doesnt break the cooked meat down thoroughly enough to get the same amount of protein as a human would. If you want to take a vet's advice on nutrition, please seek out a holistic vet, or a vet who has specifically studied canine nutrition. While most vets can make some common sense generalizations about canine nutrition, most are lacking in this area. Please consider that vets are trained to study such a broad spectrum of species and ailments (which humans would see specialists for) that often certain subjects are breezed through. I have known people to lose bulldogs (EBs) during routine surgery because many vets have no idea how to properly anestetize (sp?) brachycephalic dogs. Ask your vet if he has specifically studied nutrition, another sure fire way to determine if his opinion is valid is to ask him what food he recommends. If he suggests science diet, look for a new vet for nutritional advice. Search for some of our old threads on feeding raw, there are some great raw diets recommended.


Okay I understand what your saying here, and I understand now why folks are saying its bad. I didn't get this information directly from a vet. It was something we came upon on our own, because our dog refuses raw meat. But I don't understand why it can't be good if you are properly preparing it? With the proper vitamins, and other things the dog needs to grow.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

Akasha said:


> Okay I understand what your saying here, and I understand now why folks are saying its bad. I didn't get this information directly from a vet. It was something we came upon on our own, because our dog refuses raw meat. But I don't understand why it can't be good if you are properly preparing it? With the proper vitamins, and other things the dog needs to grow.


You can prepare a balanced meal for your dog by adding other supplements, like eggs, eggshells, ACV, veggies, bones, grains, etc, but the raw meat provides vital protein, if your dog will not eat raw chicken, you are better off trying other raw meats, like beef, venison, turkey, etc, cooking the meat renders it close to being a filler. Many dogs will eat raw meaty bones, which is a good option for a dog who wont eat raw chicken. My EB will not eat a raw diet, so I give my dogs a good quality kibble. I am not telling you that you CANT feed your dog cooked boneless chicken, but a good quality kibble will provide a more complete diet, and a raw diet will provide the best.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Yes I understand all that, and we feel that our dog has a pretty good meal. She won't anything thats raw except for stripped chicken bones. However you can add a supplement to the meal in replacement of raw meat bones.

Bone Meal for Dogs
Not to mention supplements (or vitamins) are easy to find as well...it's all a matter on how much you intend to spend.
Dog Health Supplements, Dog Nutrition Supplements, Animal Naturals, Wholistic Pet Organics

kibble is good yes, and may be better....however what happens when something goes wrong with the kibble? Like they have to recall it, and some people get tired of risking it. Either way I still haven't seen any evidance showing that cooked chicken is bad for dogs. As crash pups was stating....

Well I guess people can choose what they feed their dogs, and we know our dog is healthy. As long as the dog is healthy and happy.....Does it really matter?


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> BTW my vet is big on nutrition and holistic medicine. So please do not lump all vet together. There are some goods ones you just have to lk for them.


*I agree with you !*
My cousin is a vet tech and she has also became an advocate for nutritional value and quality food. Her skills aren't limited to pet dieases believe it or not ! A lot of the advice on supplements and vitamins come from her, the choose of food is ours. She has never knocked our dogs diet, in fact she's the one who told us to add the other stuff to make it nutritional for the dog.


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## Crash pups person (Nov 3, 2009)

Akasha said:


> How is cooked chicken table scraps? *Yes its true that the good stuff is cooked out of the chicken....but what is so wrong about it? *Yeah raw is better for dogs (that's if they eat it, ours won't), but if you add the proper nutrients to the food it makes it better right? I'm not talking about table scraps here, I'm talking about a cooked balanced meal ! I'm not talking about a meal that we cooked for ourselves, packed with fat and calories. With a little BBQ sauce and some onions, NO.....Obviously I'm mis-informed here and so are a lot of other people who feed there dogs chicken and rice.....


Whats wrong about it?

Why take the nutrients out of the food to put it back in with pharmaceutical supplements when raw based diets are more intended to be all natural? That makes no sense at all.?

Once again, go ahead and feed those meats and cook out the enzymes. Thats when dogs get sick from bacteria that may be left behind. Thats when it can become heavy on the digestive tract.

There is nothing balanced about brown rice and chicken.

You got a carb and you got a meat with all its beneficial properties cooked out of it. Carbs are in fact the only beneficial property behind brown rice, other than that its used more so as a cheap filler!

And a Holistic Vet IS the only type that will tell you about nutrition. That or a very young one as these days _some_ schooling is teaching nutrition.

And what misleading info has brought you to the understanding that Duck is not good for dogs?

By all means do as you feel but you would be even better off in this case to feed kibble.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Obviously I know nothing about nutrition, and without any proof from anyone I will no longer argue. Thank you for your information, and obviously I'm wrong about my dogs nutrition. Obviously the vet is wrong saying our dog is healthy, and obviously our dog is going to get sick. Maybe I should get a second opinion from a vet? Maybe I should tell my cousin that she knows nothing about being a vet, and the supplements I'm giving our dog is all wrong. 

whatever we will agree to disagree


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

FloorCandy said:


> You can prepare a balanced meal for your dog by adding other supplements, like eggs, eggshells, ACV, veggies, bones, grains, etc, but the raw meat provides vital protein, if your dog will not eat raw chicken, you are better off trying other raw meats, like beef, venison, turkey, etc, cooking the meat renders it close to being a filler. Many dogs will eat raw meaty bones, which is a good option for a dog who wont eat raw chicken. My EB will not eat a raw diet, so I give my dogs a good quality kibble. I am not telling you that you CANT feed your dog cooked boneless chicken, but a good quality kibble will provide a more complete diet, and a raw diet will provide the best.


:woof::goodpost::woof::goodpost:


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Here's where I get all my information, strict dry food diet is not beneficial (as you may think).....

Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats

This nutritionists also tells us in her many books, that a cooked meal isn't entirely bad, as long as supplements are made up for it. As long as a dog experiences the taste of a meaty raw bone on occasion..... Sorry okay I'm done now - take care


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

OK here's the thing. This will be a debate beaten like a dead horse. SOme people swear by cooked foods, however it is a known fact that the heating process does take away a lot of the nutrients present in raw form. So then yes, you end up adding supplements. You spend time cooking and preparing, and money buying ingredients that you killed off by heating said foods. If you wanna talk picky eater, cooking food all the time is a sure way to enforce that. 

I do not feed raw because I have yet to find a reliable meat source, every place that I have tried seems sketchy to me, but the last thing I will give my dogs is cooked food. It IS table scraps to me, it's like me eating chicken and rice and giving some to my dogs. I prepare food yes, because often I will add a raw egg, shell and all, or some apple cidar vinegar, or some glucosamine-chontroiton since my dogs will both be WP dogs and stress their joints..... I add more fat when it's winter time, since our dogs spend a considerable amount of time outside even being inside dogs... 

If you feed a quality kibble, you are less likely to spend as much time with extra preparation then you would with cooked food. You are also leaving out a LOT of nutrients, unless you have taken some real time to study proper nutrition..

Overall, our dogs have been domesticated yes, but it does not mean that their bodies digest raw any different then their predacesors. I don't feed any grain because potatos and veggies provide enough roughage for my dogs to pass their bowels. I don't feed grain because it is a filler, and I don't feed grain because it bloats them up, and makes the protein source harder to digest. If you're having digestion problems, I suggest probiotics and some roughage from veggies which won't bloat up your dogs. 

JMO


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

Akasha, right from the site you listed:

"One must consider that dogs and cats have thrived in good health on real, raw food for many thousands of years. Only recently have we fed them foreign commercial food products and, with the increase in animal illness, we must in good conscience and logical reason, consider the correlation."

here is the link to the article, the quote can be found under "Raw vs. Cooked Food"
What You Need to Know About Dog and Cat Nutrition

All we are trying to say is that you can feed cooked food, but raw is better for dogs.


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## Jaylexi248 (Dec 29, 2009)

Carriana said:


> What do you mean by "I want her to get real big when she gets older". APBTs are not large dogs by design. They are a medium sized dog ranging from from 40-70 lbs by standard. If you were looking for a large dog you've chosen the wrong breed. Feeding a dog more might make them fat but you can't change a medium sized dog to a large breed by making them fat...


im sorry i shouldve said big as in muscle wise i want all lean muscle on her


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Speaking in terms of unnatural diet for a dog does not make a lot of sense considering that the dog does not live on in nature but is instead a domestic animal and has been for more than 1000 years.


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## Jaylexi248 (Dec 29, 2009)

Akasha said:


> Here's where I get all my information, strict dry food diet is not beneficial (as you may think).....
> 
> Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats
> 
> This nutritionists also tells us in her many books, that a cooked meal isn't entirely bad, as long as supplements are made up for it. As long as a dog experiences the taste of a meaty raw bone on occasion..... Sorry okay I'm done now - take care


i like this, u just made a long story short lol


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

FloorCandy said:


> Akasha, right from the site you listed:
> 
> "One must consider that dogs and cats have thrived in good health on real, raw food for many thousands of years. Only recently have we fed them *foreign commercial food products* and, with the increase in animal illness, we must in good conscience and logical reason, consider the correlation."
> 
> ...


I know about this women, I have her books. Our cat has problems with his stomach and thats when we turned to her. We were turned on by her because of this. Our cat couldn't eat most commerical cat food, because he would become ill. His stomach can not handle raw because something about not breaking down the enzymes - he vomits everytime and we have gone the limits to get only the best. 
Natural Nutrition for Cats - this women does not agree with the kibble we feed our animals.

*I am not saying directly that anyone is telling what I can and can not do, however folks here have made it clear that what i feed our animals is wrong.*



Crash pups person said:


> Table food is bad.


I don't work, and I'm a full time student. I have the ability and the means of preparing the food, and honestly I don't mind it at all. Not to mention the ability to feed our animals the food we want, has cleared up their problems. Our cat had a severe skin disorder, he has many food allegies to varies veggies and fruits - We tried putting him on varies types of commerical food for cats, and nothing worked for him. A new allergy came up - we then started him on a strict supplemental diet that I found in one of these books. Our cat hasn't had any problems sense.

Our dog we have found has allergies to certain food, but has cleared up completely - I'm not talking about picky eatters here at all, yes our dog refuses raw.......

Before I got her, I got a variety of organic meats, and choose a realiable raw meat diet that I have used before. This isn't our first dog - and 2 months later her body rejected it, she was properly digusting it and she wasn't pooping - Our vet feeds his dogs raw diets - so he wasn't against it at all believe it our not !
However he said its not common but very possible for an animal to reject the raw meat and caused inflammatory bowel disease, which had to be treated. We feed our dog kibble for "Free feed" if she is hungry, to get her use to it ~ But we don't live our lives on commerical dog food ~

*Okay take it as you well ~ I am done*


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## Crash pups person (Nov 3, 2009)

Sampsons Dad said:


> Speaking in terms of unnatural diet for a dog does not make a lot of sense considering that the dog does not live on in nature but is instead a domestic animal and has been for more than 1000 years.


But, you fail to comprehend the fact that only 112-120 of those 1000 years we have been feeding our dog cooked or processed foods.

That along with the fact that now more and more dogs are showing allergies and other cancers do to the ingredients we put in commercialized diets does not tell you anything?



> I am not saying directly that anyone is telling what I can and can not do, however folks here have made it clear that what i feed our animals is wrong.


Not exactly wrong but pointless.

Your going to a lesser of two evils. What happens when your dog which is now lacking in enzymes even more so ends up with a half cooked meal just by chance? At least kibble attempts to replace it.

If your dog has conditions that make dry foods out of the question please all we are telling you is that raw would be way better than cooked.

Trust me, do a good search for it. You will find reliable links with plenty of references to go by.

And when I see table foods I see whats left over from our dinners so yes I will stick with the fact that " table food " is bad and " raw " is good.

Again, why cook out the nutrients just to supplement it with pharmaceuticals when its easier for all dogs to process vitamins and minerals from natural resources ? That lady in that link is a bad example of a complete nutritionist.


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

I tried and I'm done with it to Akasha 

I just don't care for the wrong info getting out there OK!


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Akasha said:


> However he said its *not common* but *very possible* for an animal *to reject the raw meat *and *caused inflammatory bowel disease*,


Our dog obtained this diease from eatting raw meat ~ I don't fail to understand or realize anything, our opitions are limited because of our animals conditions ! I don't fail to realize that its possible I could make my animals sick ~ My information is not wrong *unless* you guys are nutritionists. This is an opinion based forum. If someone is a certified nutritionist and knows more them me, I will gladly apologize for adding some much drama to your forum. I never asked for anyone to agree with me at all ! I was merely giving my opinion ! That is all......

*Thank you for the fun times, and the beautiful pictures I have seen. Thank you for the information you have all given me ! I've enjoyed my stay at this forum.* Everyone take care !


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## Crash pups person (Nov 3, 2009)

Akasha said:


> Our dog obtained this diease from eatting raw meat ~ I don't fail to understand or realize anything, our opitions are limited because of our animals conditions ! I don't fail to realize that its possible I could make my animals sick ~ My information is not wrong *unless* you guys are nutritionists. This is an opinion based forum. If someone is a certified nutritionist and knows more them me, I will gladly apologize for adding some much drama to your forum. I never asked for anyone to agree with me at all ! I was merely giving my opinion ! That is all......
> 
> *Thank you for the fun times, and the beautiful pictures I have seen. Thank you for the information you have all given me ! I've enjoyed my stay at this forum.* Everyone take care !


And the first vet told me my dog was doomed and will catch ecoli,...lol:rofl:!

I dont buy it for one minute and have you decided to research IBD yourself? Im not a vet or a nutritionist,... I guess *YOU MUST BE BOTH* to know whats good for you pet right? Your dog did not catch it from raw meat he caught it cause he ate the wrong food items. Raw meat had nothing to do with it. It is more than likely from eating a food that causes allergic reactions. I am dealing with a customer and a Boston Terrier with a similar problem at work. Hopefully she will listen to the same thins Im telling you and catch it before IBD sets in. That or a lack in enzymes causing complications for the digestive system.

Someone asked a question that takes more thought than opinion and we corrected your mistake which you highly disagree with.

We just want to make sure the wrong info is not absorbed by the OP.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Either way I don't care anymore - I done with this topic. I've been informed that I know nothing and my opinions don't matter. So everything I've written as far as advice, ignore it all......I've been told my dogs health is endanger, well so be it.....All I asked was cold hard proof, someone to come in with the correct and proper information to show me where I was wrong to suggest it. I still have not seen anything....either way it doesn't matter anymore, my opinions are wrong, and I won't be coming back.

I don't want to cause anyone grief because obviously I don't know what I'm talking about.

*Good bye GP and good luck*


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Theres alot of good information on this thread. No one has to agree on everything. And how ever you choose to feed your dog is really just your business. Leaving should not even have been a part of this thread as everyone was merely pointing out what they know as you did Akasha. Some may not agree with you as you may not agree with them. And what one vet suggests may not be anothers. As I have dealt with several cases of IBD cats and dog none were on raw meat but had been on commercial foods when diagnosed. My boss who has not 1 not 2 but 5 top New York vets and one very much known vet who has written several books on health and natural healing ... changed their diets to raw. So my point is not all vets are the same and some research and learn differently. Right now in fact I am dealing with an IBD flare up of one cat who has been stable for 4 yrs no medications and this flare up is due to stress not raw meat ...
But I know that non of these vets recommend cooking anything unless the animal is sick and you just want them to eat something ... 
Vets have their own ideas and views such as we do ...... nothing wrong with us sharing back and forth information we do not have to agree on everything ...
Why leave when you have been active and helpful on this forum as any other ... I hope you stay and continue to participate ... Come on WE NEED TO HAVE THICKER SKIN THEN OUR DOGS .... we can all agree that we love them and do what we feel is best in our eyes ....


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## Crash pups person (Nov 3, 2009)

Akasha said:


> Either way I don't care anymore - I done with this topic. I've been informed that I know nothing and my opinions don't matter. So everything I've written as far as advice, ignore it all......I've been told my dogs health is endanger, well so be it.....All I asked was cold hard proof, someone to come in with the correct and proper information to show me where I was wrong to suggest it. I still have not seen anything....either way it doesn't matter anymore, my opinions are wrong, and I won't be coming back.
> 
> I don't want to cause anyone grief because obviously I don't know what I'm talking about.
> 
> *Good bye GP and good luck*


Common sense does not help dictate what proof we bring to the table?

No one said your dog is in danger, are you wrong? No,.. are you right? No,.. your just getting by.



> Theres alot of good information on this thread. No one has to agree on everything. And how ever you choose to feed your dog is really just your business. Leaving should not even have been a part of this thread as everyone was merely pointing out what they know as you did Akasha. Some may not agree with you as you may not agree with them. And what one vet suggests may not be anothers. As I have dealt with several cases of IBD cats and dog none were on raw meat but had been on commercial foods when diagnosed. My boss who has not 1 not 2 but 5 top New York vets and one very much known vet who has written several books on health and natural healing ... changed their diets to raw. So my point is not all vets are the same and some research and learn differently. Right now in fact I am dealing with an IBD flare up of one cat who has been stable for 4 yrs no medications and this flare up is due to stress not raw meat ...
> But I know that non of these vets recommend cooking anything unless the animal is sick and you just want them to eat something ...
> Vets have their own ideas and views such as we do ...... nothing wrong with us sharing back and forth information we do not have to agree on everything ...
> Why leave when you have been active and helpful on this forum as any other ... I hope you stay and continue to participate ... Come on WE NEED TO HAVE THICKER SKIN THEN OUR DOGS .... we can all agree that we love them and do what we feel is best in our eyes ....
> __________________


Agreed, Akasha just as you gave advice and expected others to at least consider it in some way,... thats all some of us ask for as well.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Not one asked me to take advice....The only thing I got was disagreeing - saying that I'm mis-enformed ~ Read the labels on your dog food tonight and correct me if I'm wrong ~

Taste of the Wild :Taste of the Wild : Products : Ingredients

*Flavor (natural)*
Natural ingredient that is applied to the outside of the kibble to enhance the flavor and acceptance of the dry pet food. Can be from vegetable, chicken, lamb, or pork sources. Examples are Brewer's dried yeast, parsley, assorted smoked meats, hydrolyzed proteins (processed so the average molecular weight of the protein is too small to be detected by the immune system which helps avoid adverse reactions in allergic pets. There is no intact protein from the chicken, lamb, or pork.) Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

Blue Buffalo: contains *Salt*
BLUE Buffalo - How To Read a Pet Food Label

How is this any better?

The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid

Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: Holiday Treats

If an animal is severely immuno-compromised, however, you can gently cook the meat portion of the food before mixing with the other ingredients.* Add a pinch of digestive enzymes just before serving to compensate for the cooking.* Our dog can not tolerate raw meat - period ~ this is what we do to compensate the cooking !!! *Is this still wrong to do?*

*raw bones are still the best source of calcium* She can handle these !

http://www.allthebestpetcare.com/handouts/13_Home_Prepared.pdf

We are limited in cash, and we have gone to the ends of the earth to obtain the proper supplements to main-tain a healthy dog !

Digestive Enzymes Supplements | Puritan's Pride

Cooked food isn't bad, as long as you can prepare it properly !


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

DueceAddicTed said:


> WE NEED TO HAVE THICKER SKIN THEN OUR DOGS .... we can all agree that we love them and do what we feel is best in our eyes ....


My skin is thicker then you think ! lol......This Christmas, we've learned the true meaning - My husband was in a serious car accident, and with the amount of money we have put into our animals, we can't afford a new car ! Therefore we are without one for the time being. Unless we get lucky tomorrow and we can get approved for a loan......We just bought a house, so we may not qualify for another loan ~ who knows

Either way if I have been rude its not to be stubborn ~ Honestly I don't care if anyone agrees with anything I've said - but as others I do my research ! This is the best way we have found to keep our dog strong and healthy -

Raw meat is the best - I *don't* disagree ! However some need to make up for that fact, if raw is out of the question !


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Well I'm glad your still here and wish you the very best you and your family , I hope your husband is well ... we ALL obviously care about our guys, and being stubborn is not so bad I think we all are in our own way can get under one anothers skin for what we believe in lol ... Happy New Years.........


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Akasha said:


> Not one asked me to take advice....The only thing I got was disagreeing - saying that I'm mis-enformed ~ Read the labels on your dog food tonight and correct me if I'm wrong ~
> 
> Taste of the Wild :Taste of the Wild : Products : Ingredients
> 
> ...


OK hold up now Blue Buffalo: I don't care if it contains Salt or not is the best dog food on the market right now and your gonna down it?

Man what's up with people now days?


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Marty said:


> OK hold up now Blue Buffalo: I don't care if it contains Salt or not is the best dog food on the market right now and your gonna down it?
> 
> Man what's up with people now days?


Yes I am......

The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Akasha said:


> Yes I am......
> 
> The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid


So in your opinion as a professional whats the best dry food for a dog?

I've done heard cooked food, and please don't leave the site because of me, hell it's a debate not a fight LOL


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## Crash pups person (Nov 3, 2009)

Those are the best two foods out right now and TOTW's ingredients in High Prairie make it far superior to any other brand obtaining the six star ratings.

You call a food bad cause its flavor? Im not understanding it cause you are boiling chicken to add flavor to rice!

Either way at this point it does not matter, you must now understand the fact that you are doing something unique to you that you must do cause of your dogs condition ( if what ever it is your doing you feel is acceptable ) and the OP just as far as we know it has a average dog in good health!

How ever I guarantee your dog in the condition its in would far more benefit if you slowly acclimated it to a all *raw* diet.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

I am not for nor against Raw foods. I am however not in agreement that a dog cannot process some grains and vegetable. Dogs have adapted to human food over time.
Anyway my last post on this topic is simply this:
Dogs present more skin and allergy problems now because more breeding of weak dogs and more people are forced by law to bring sick animals to the vet: Whereas in the past they (sickly dogs) were shot.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Wow what a thread. 

There are a lot of books and info on the net about nutrition. I think that if a person wants to do the raw food thing you find a person and you research them if what they say make sence to you and it fits with your animal you go with it. Everyone is ging to find something wrong with a choice that a person has made does that mean you made the wrong choice or that what you are doing with your dog is wrong no it doesn't. Not everything is going to wrk for all dogs and their owners. So my advice is take what will work for you leave behind that that doesn't and move on.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

IMO, the best dog food out there is the Dick Van Pattens line of limited ingredients list. Hands down, I love my dogs... my pups are making the switch back to DVP from blue buffalo. My adults are Raw, my pups are kibble... DVP LID has the closest ingredients list to what I want to see in my dogs food, when I personally prepare food. With Blue Buffalo...we've been on it for two months now, they are STILL gassy and basically turn their noses up to it. 

We all have to remember that dog food manufacturers are only required by law to update the ingredients on the back of kibble once a year... ONCE A YEAR! How many times do you go grocery shopping and chose to buy what's on sale??? Yeah, now imagine shopping for a commercial company... They are bargain shoppers and do not stick to what's on the back of the bag. 

I am pro raw, I'm pro quality kibble... what ever works for your house hold.


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## Crash pups person (Nov 3, 2009)

Sampsons Dad said:


> I am not for nor against Raw foods. I am however not in agreement that a dog cannot process some grains and vegetable. Dogs have adapted to human food over time.
> Anyway my last post on this topic is simply this:
> Dogs present more skin and allergy problems now because more breeding of weak dogs and more people are forced by law to bring sick animals to the vet: Whereas in the past they (sickly dogs) were shot.


It_ is _do to the fact that dogs can not handle consistent grains in a staple diet.
We have been breeding more and more dogs while feeding more and more grains and now it is becoming a issue.

Dogs dont eat these items as a staple diet but as a treat in the wild. Now they do and after a few decades of breeding and feeding kibble we see more and more problems even with top of the line bloodlines.

It has nothing to do with the quality of the breeding stock used generations before. Top of the line blood still shows allergies so that can not be a valid reason.

Therefore they are not adapting but going in reverse. They are now becoming more sensitive to such items.

Evolution takes more than 100 years in such adapt carnivores.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

I just needed a little break, we've had a rough year and litterally drained ! I understand if you guys aren't agreeing with all this, but you have to consider the circumstances. The topic started as to whether or not something other then commerical dog food was okay to feed dogs. I was going with what I have done with our dog.

I honestly don't care if I'm disagree with or not, and I'm not totally talking down about the tops quality foods. All I'm showing is that either way you are feeding your dogs, you never really know what is in the product. Yeah you can research it and look at the ingredients, but how many times do they change, because they find a cheaper item. Does that make sense? Here is something silly to think about...................

Has anyone read about the "Fast Food Nation"? Its the same with humans, you are constantly trying to eat healthy, but you have to watch all the stuff they put into their food.....It's the same thing with dog or cat food, and frankly I love to know what my animals are eatting....

Like I said, we have the money and the medical advice in order to keep our animals as healthy as we can. We add supplements, and usually the best ones you can find in order to make up for the lose in cooked chicken. That way all the ingredients are natural and we don't have any problems. My cousin who is a vet tech and knows a lot about nutrition has given us advice on how to prepare food. She also breeds those hairless cats and feeds them a similiar diet to our cat. If she lived in Nevada then she would be our vet of choice.

Its all a matter of personal choice and especially when Akasha gets to be just a little bit older......we've been recommended to add K9 Show Stopper by Animal Naturals to her diet. Which we intend to do........As long as you pay the extra money for the organic meats and the proper supplements you aren't going to feed your dog anything less then what they need. Yeah it can be time consuming however........we store what we make that way it can be ready. I only make the food to last up to 2 days, because I don't want the bacteria to form..........

If you think about it......it takes the same amount of time because you basically have to go and buy the food........

Home Cooked Dog Food

Google is our friend and research is good - I know a lot of people who do the same with their animals.......however in order to make sure you aren't making your dog sick you have to remember that their are certain things you don't want to feed them.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

*Boiled** boneless* chicken & white rice mixed with grain rice or plain oatmeal. Science diet also has a canned boiled chicken & rice formula with necessary vitamins that's good for allergen sensitive dogs. IMO a raw diet I feel would be harsh on a puppies system especially when they're already showing signs of allergies.

I went through this with Lex as a puppy & am conveying from my Vet's opinion.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

I just don't agree with Science Diet, not because its a low quality food....but because I tried that and Akasha developed allergies to it. So we took her off of it........Its been a pain in the butt, I'll admit. But we went through it with our cat, and we don't know where Akasha came from or whether or not she came from bad breeding. She's a rescue pup, so who knows, she could be a result from BYB ~ Either way Akasha is showing great improvement in her health, and she's active with a beautiful coat. Her relief periods are consistant and look very nice, compared to what it was.


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