# What are Gotti and Razor Edge??



## TJMAPP

I have a female razor gotti. I didnt know they where considered so bad and widely hated. I still love her and plan on keeping her i just want to know what exactly she is. Thank you in advance.

Here is a pic of her, let me know if anybody thinks she's a fake. there's more pics in my albums. Thank you in advance.


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## Sampsons Dad

They are usually very low wide American Bully dogs. They often appear to be mixed bred dogs like a Pit Bull X English Bull Dog. I am not saying they are, just that they often look like they are. They can be fine dogs that are bred for looks ie blue color, big heads, low wide stance...etc 
They cost a lot compared to most APBT and seem to be over bred. 
They come from a line of show dogs in the recent past and have become immensely popular.Trends and dogs are not a good thing so too many ill structured dogs are bred and sold for big loot.

So..wheres the pic?
Throw up your pics!...lol


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## reddoggy

ACTUALLY.......
Yes those are AMERICAN BULLY lines, BUT they don't always come out low and wide. Matter of fact, there's a few different categories that they may fall into. The best way to figure what they are going to look is as simple as looking at the parents. 
Just a brief history,
The Notorious Juan Gotti is a dog that came from GreyLine and was owned by a man named Richard Barajas. He bought the dog and questioned his lineage and never planned on breeding him. Years down the road, Richard has two bitches in heat and Gotti tore his way out of his kennel and knocked those two bitches up. The pups came out with a really nice look and that's how Gotti line came to be.
Razors Edge was founded by Dave Wilson. He was producing Am Staff Pit Bull crosses and selectively breeding out of those to get a nice clean look. Eventually, once the bully world started taking off, he made unknown crosses for a more extreme look. 
These are the two more well known Bully bloodlines. They are not mutts, they been bred and bred to the point that they are pure now. People DO hate. Something you just gotta live with. Haters all have different reasons for hating and they come in different forms. Just be thrilled to have a beautiful dog and know that your dog is no more and no less than anybody else'. Might not be APBT game blood, but really, those folks aint fighting dogs anyway, most of em' aren't really doing anything notable with em', and they are PROBABLY just jealous that YOUR dog is prettier. LOL


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## Black Label Romo

You got papers or did the breeder just tell you he was razors edge or gottiline? As far as them being widely hated...you must be looking on the wrong forums because they are just as much widely loved and praised...post up some pictures!


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## reddoggy

Oh, nicely put John! Rep!


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## gh32

reddoggy said:


> ACTUALLY.......
> Yes those are AMERICAN BULLY lines, BUT they don't always come out low and wide. Matter of fact, there's a few different categories that they may fall into. The best way to figure what they are going to look is as simple as looking at the parents.
> Just a brief history,
> The Notorious Juan Gotti is a dog that came from GreyLine and was owned by a man named Richard Barajas. He bought the dog and questioned his lineage and never planned on breeding him. Years down the road, Richard has two bitches in heat and Gotti tore his way out of his kennel and knocked those two bitches up. The pups came out with a really nice look and that's how Gotti line came to be.
> Razors Edge was founded by Dave Wilson. He was producing Am Staff Pit Bull crosses and selectively breeding out of those to get a nice clean look. Eventually, once the bully world started taking off, he made unknown crosses for a more extreme look.
> These are the two more well known Bully bloodlines. They are not mutts, they been bred and bred to the point that they are pure now. People DO hate. Something you just gotta live with. Haters all have different reasons for hating and they come in different forms. Just be thrilled to have a beautiful dog and know that your dog is no more and no less than anybody else'. Might not be APBT game blood, but really, those folks aint fighting dogs anyway, most of em' aren't really doing anything notable with em', and they are PROBABLY just jealous that YOUR dog is prettier. LOL


If the dog's lineage was questioned and was a mutt to start with,how does overbreeding them make the Gotti and RE dogs reach a point of being pure now,unless it's pure mutt?Just curious how that'd work.Anyway I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder but trust me when I say game dog people aren't jealous,really we're not.To the original poster,if you love your dog that's fine,I've owned of few mutts myself of other breeds,no reason your dog can't make you a nice pet,I just wished people would quit breeding them is all.Good luck with your dog.


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## reddoggy

Dang it, I hate when I go to neg someone and accidentally give em good rep!

I suppose that you believe that GOD made pit bulls, right?


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## gh32

reddoggy said:


> Dang it, I hate when I go to neg someone and accidentally give em good rep!
> 
> I suppose that you believe that GOD made pit bulls, right?


Simply asking a question,I never bashed bullies once.You just can make it pure at this point if it started of being a mix.That's all I said.


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## reddoggy

Um, your entire post was a bully bash, do you need me to quote it for you?
I can't answer your question accurately because I've never created a breed, but my guess would be that they would no longer be mutts once you were breeding with goals and consistency.


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## DueceAddicTed

Are not most dogs mutts when first creating a breed til you perfect what your looking for then continue with in those lines ........ and as generations pass you wash out the mutt part and create yourself a pure? ........ just asking don't shoot me .... 
And how many generations does it take to create a pure .... 
Heck I love both apbt and bullies ....... they both started somewhere ...


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## reddoggy

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, Ronnie.


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## gh32

reddoggy said:


> Um, your entire post was a bully bash, do you need me to quote it for you?
> I can't answer your question accurately because I've never created a breed, but my guess would be that they would no longer be mutts once you were breeding with goals and consistency.


I'm not going to waste my time arguing with,I told the OP if they loved the dog that was just great,it should make a nice pet and wished them good luck with their pet,just because I don't want one don't mean I wish theirs to drop dead.I wouldn't even posted on this thread except I was wanting to see how mutt plus mutt equals purebred.Basic math says it doesn't if you look at the % of whatever blood is in there.I try to be nice and refine my posts not to offend people unless neccesary,what I posted isn't even close to bashing.More like asking you to explain your comment about what you think is a purebred dog.That all.As of right now,I don't even care because I think your a little biased on the subject.


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## buzhunter

All breeds start with an idea. No reason why they would not eventually become a recognized pure breed. Hard for performance bred type dog people to wrap their minds around the concept of a pet quality dog being purposely bred. With more folks getting out and putting those bullies to work, they will gain more respect and recognition. At this point, recognition by a brand new registry is just not enough for most.


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## DueceAddicTed

Awww the all so wise BUZ ~!! gotcha lol


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## reddoggy

gh32 said:


> I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> if you love your dog that's fine,I've owned of few mutts myself
> 
> no reason your dog can't make you a nice pet
> 
> I just wished people would quit breeding them is all.


Nope, no insults laced into that post at all. Hey, if ya don't wanna argue, then don't.


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## StaffyDaddy

buzhunter said:


> All breeds start with an idea. No reason why they would not eventually become a recognized pure breed. Hard for performance bred type dog people to wrap their minds around the concept of a pet quality dog being purposely bred. With more folks getting out and putting those bullies to work, they will gain more respect and recognition. At this point, recognition by a brand new registry is just not enough for most.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

when andy doesn't post you are the other voice of reason and logic!


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## Cali_Blue

Whenever we walk our Razors Edge/Gotti bluenose we get those looks of fright or hatred from people unfamiliar with bullys. Our bluenose is a great, family dog. She's very good with people. It really all comes down to how you raised and trained your bully. Raise them responsibly and correctly and they will not be a danger. :hug:


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## ~Missy~

Cali_Blue said:


> Whenever we walk our Razors Edge/Gotti bluenose we get those looks of fright or hatred from people unfamiliar with bullys. Our bluenose is a great, family dog. She's very good with people. *It really all comes down to how you raised and trained your bully. Raise them responsibly and correctly and they will not be a danger.* :hug:


Not entirely true. Genetics plays a huge role in how a dog's temperament will turn out. Some bullies are genetically predisposed to dog aggression, just like APBTs. Some may also become human aggressive. Regardless of how well they are raised.


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## Cali_Blue

~Missy~ said:


> Not entirely true. Genetics plays a huge role in how a dog's temperament will turn out. Some bullies are genetically predisposed to dog aggression, just like APBTs. Some may also become human aggressive. Regardless of how well they are raised.


Sure that is part of it, but I've never had that issue. We take our bully to the dog park, and also walk her among strangers on outings, and have not had a problem. Check the CDC stats and you are more likely to be bitten by a small dog like a Chihuahua than you are a Pitty. Go figure. But it's my contention that it's all about the way you raise and train your dog that prevents them from becoming terrorists.


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## Cali_Blue

I've always trained our blue girl to listen to orders, I used to be in the military and I've raised her and trained her like if she were a military or a police dog. Many Pitty's perform that role responsibly and well. She always listens up and knows what is unacceptable behavior. APBTs are very good dogs, but yes, maybe I'm biased...


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## rabbit

Cali_Blue said:


> I've always trained our blue girl to listen to orders, I used to be in the military and I've raised her and trained her like if she were a military or a police dog. Many Pitty's perform that role responsibly and well. She always listens up and knows what is unacceptable behavior. APBTs are very good dogs, but yes, maybe I'm biased...


Well she's not a "pitty" or an APBT she's an American Bully and they just like any other breed when not bred properly can have all types of structural as well inherited behavioral problems. It never will or never has been all in how you raise them. You just got very lucky with that dog. I'm not saying that you didn't work your butt off training her, but I am saying that if a bad dog owner might have purchased her and chained her up to a tree for all this time she most likely would have been just as sweet as she is now.


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## Just Tap Pits

Cali_Blue said:


> I've always trained our blue girl to listen to orders, I used to be in the military and I've raised her and trained her like if she were a military or a police dog. Many Pitty's perform that role responsibly and well. She always listens up and knows what is unacceptable behavior. APBTs are very good dogs, but yes, maybe I'm biased...


So your dog can sniff out drugs, explosives, pursue and subdue a person, and has very high level bitework training?


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## Samhwain

It takes about 20+ years to create a breed and make it considered "pure bred". I've looked into it out of curiosity and it requires "true" and "consistent" breeding with a check list of what your goals in build/appearance, behavior, size, etc. are and "tried and true" sires/dams that toss puppies that always grow up to have the looks you want. Generally they require 4-5 generations of breeding and it's highly recommended to use more than one "set" for the breeding. At the time of approval ( when what you've created has a consistent look ) they'll register the breed as a new breed and it's up to you to inform the registry of what "crosses" are permitted ( for example some bully x staff crosses are accepted in some registries. ) A good example of a "breed" that could become pure is "pit/bully" x lab - they almost always breed the same, consistent appearance. Taking that and continuing with the 50-50 mix to create another 50-50 mix ( use two parents of equal mixing ) for a few generations and see how consistent it is and it'll continue ( for whoever it was that asked ).

ALL dogs are technically mixed-breeds due to the various breeds in their heritage. Everything started from somewhere. It was human intervention that made "breeds" through selective breeding for certain desired traits.



~Missy~ said:


> Not entirely true. Genetics plays a huge role in how a dog's temperament will turn out. Some bullies are genetically predisposed to dog aggression, just like APBTs. Some may also become human aggressive. Regardless of how well they are raised.


Yes an no. Pit bulls ( all breeds that fall under this category ) were bred ( originally ) to be as non-aggressive towards humans as a newborn puppy that bit the handler would be culled. End of story. It was todays poor breeding that led to the potential for true human aggression in the breeds. I'm not saying the original dogs would remain placid when someone attacked their handlers ( part of what made them excellent dogs was how they defended their people ) but they would not have turned on handlers like today's dog can. Even if your dog is bred to be "aggressive" and has the potential a well trained animal will behave despite the breeding. Same as with a well bred german shapherd that is never trained. It can't perform to standards/behave because it hasn't been taught how; thus it'll rely on instincts. however if trained it won't rely on instincts and rather on what behaviors it was TAUGHT as appropriate.

As for your dog ( OP ) I would consider this: almost EVERY unpapered pit, bully, staff, etc. it pushed as Razors Edge // Gottie bloodlines today so that they "sell" or "find homes". If you look they're -everywhere- but there is no proof that they really have those bloodlines without paperwork. Most people are under the misconception that RE // Gottie lines are "fighting dog" breeds and will treat them as such ( and a lot of people that lie about their dogs pedigree are trying to get the attention of fighters to sell fighting dogs ).

Your dog is gorgeous, though, and looks to be straight bully/pittie type dogs. I don't see any other mix in them and whether they have amazing bloodlines or not if they're an amazing dog then they're an amazing dog. It sounds like they're a spectacular example of what the breed(s) can be when handled properly and well loved.


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