# Are you familiar with bloodlines? Then help =)



## carson1391 (Apr 5, 2011)

Different bloodlines is an area that I am very uneducated. I know my question can go on all day and there are probally endless probabilities. I would like a APBT that has the potential for great stamina,agility, rednose/fawn or even champange color. (although i like the tan the most) but I want it to have the potential to be very muscular but lean at the same time. A wonderful show dog. Something like sadie or bahamutts. What are the lines ( x ) and where can i find them. I would like pictures. I cannot be more specific cause i dont know what else to say lol.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

There are lots of really nice dogs out there are you looking to show ADBA, UKC, or both? Also why do you want such a high drive dog? Are you going to do sports? Some bloodlines can get really hard to handle what is your experience with the breed? That will help when finding a breeder.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Here are the peds for Sadie's dogs:
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [328954] :: A'S BOGART
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=175576


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Here are the peds for Sadie's dogs:
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [328954] :: A'S BOGART
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [175576] :: AKA X FINALE


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

I never realized how tightly bred Ava is.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Dogs like Sadie's and many others out there would be too much dog for someone with little experience, it can even be a lot of dog for someone with plenty of experience depending on where that experience lays. Either in bulldogs/game dogs or show.

You really need to look at the ped and see what the dog was bred for. A tightly well bred game dog i believe would be too much for you for what your trying to accomplish especially. Im not a big follower on show breeders so someone else would need to point you in the proper direction.


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## carson1391 (Apr 5, 2011)

You all did give me somthing to think about. I want to raise another puppy and learn the aspects of dog shows. What exactly do you guys mean by too much to handle? I have had no official schooling or classes only on the expierence on what i have and read. Not yet and I know most of you had. I however do plan spending time on this. I do not plan on like traveling everywhere and stuff. I have a High drive dog now, no papers and can not get any. I spend alot of time with my dogs and do various things with them, i feed them properly with a raw meat diet and they are pretty well trained and they can do anything. I enjoy teaching them things and wearing them out. come on guys! need a show dog! I havent looked at the ped that was posted yet, ill get back to you on that. I love the whole weightpull and jumping events though!


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## carson1391 (Apr 5, 2011)

Yes That is a nice dog. Seems like it would be hard to get a hold of a puppy. Anything easy that wouldnt cost me a fortune? lol. A little background on myself, I am 22 years old I have a 7-3 shift and my wife stays at home. I am in great shape and I expect my dog to be as well. I am in the Marines and I expect and work with my dogs to be equally disiplined. It just would be nice to have a dog with teh attitude and build do participate in some occasional events. I like to put forward everything i got into somthing and lets be honest if your going to get a dog who wouldnt want it to be pure with papers? I hope you all are getting my point.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Maybe an amstaff? If this would be your introduction- it might be alot to handle. Working dogs are not always pets. They require more than just a toy breed. Grab some books and find a mentor possibly or just visit some kennels and see if they have what you are looking for.


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## carson1391 (Apr 5, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> Maybe an amstaff? If this would be your introduction- it might be alot to handle. Working dogs are not always pets. They require more than just a toy breed. Grab some books and find a mentor possibly or just visit some kennels and see if they have what you are looking for.


yea I would like to get a pet out of all this not a robot. I wouldnt mind reading some books and suggestions? I dont know of any kennels. And not really amstaff really want APBT. I dont need like a crazy one of a kind champion dog, just a good bloodline. I want a beautiful dog thats lean and muscular with good genes thats all.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

carson1391 said:


> yea I would like to get a pet out of all this not a robot. I wouldnt mind reading some books and suggestions? I dont know of any kennels. And not really amstaff really want APBT. I dont need like a crazy one of a kind champion dog, just a good bloodline. I want a beautiful dog thats lean and muscular with good genes thats all.


Keep in mind a well bred APBT is going to have a lot of drive and game, extreme DA and if you haven't had any experience with this kind of drive you are going to have your hands full. APBT's are not show dogs, they are strong willed working dogs. While yes, they are excellent companions and pets they do need a lot of work, consistently throughout their lives. It's a lot more work than what the average person can handle and devote. It's not a dog you walk for 30 minutes to an hour a day with a little bit of play every day. Its not a breed you take to dog parks or other heavy traffic area that involves dogs. This is also not a breed for a novice. I can bet you anything it will be too much for you to handle with what you want.

Your best bet would be looking at a well bred, classic Bully or a well bred American Staffordshire Terrier. It doesn't sound like you need an APBT.

Im not trying to sound like a jerk by any means, im just giving you truthful advice and sometimes its not always what you want to hear.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

I can agree KM-


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Oh and BTW im not saying you cant show an APBT, many do. But a well bred one from a good gene pool is not what the dog was originally meant to do. That was the entire reason for the AST. That was bred mostly for the show ring and i believe that breed or a similar breed would be more to your liking and suitable for what your aiming to accomplish. An APBT, on the other hand, i just don't see any reason for you owning one basing on what your wanting. Your describing a well bred, strong, a good bit of drive, show dog that is happy being properly taken care of as a family pet. While yes APBT's do share this but theres the other half of the picture that i don't believe your considering.


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## carson1391 (Apr 5, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> Oh and BTW im not saying you cant show an APBT, many do. But a well bred one from a good gene pool is not what the dog was originally meant to do. That was the entire reason for the AST. That was bred mostly for the show ring and i believe that breed or a similar breed would be more to your liking and suitable for what your aiming to accomplish. An APBT, on the other hand, i just don't see any reason for you owning one basing on what your wanting. Your describing a well bred, strong, a good bit of drive, show dog that is happy being properly taken care of as a family pet. While yes APBT's do share this but theres the other half of the picture that i don't believe your considering.


I understand, no offence taken. I really do want a APBT though, not a bully or amstaff. There is just a certain look i want. I love the breed and for once in my life I want a pure dog with papers. I understand about the 1hr walk and a little play and i dont socialize with other dogs. I believe I go a little beyond than that. KM you have given me direction, Im always willing to learn if you have the time tell me more lol. You do have to see my point though. I am willing to take the extra step. I will do what i have to. I am not trying to get one tomorrow. Maybe in about 6 months and i want to have my mind set and I plan to use the time untill a get a dog to expand my understanding and learn new things. I am not someone who doesnt or wont dedicate myself to something.


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## carson1391 (Apr 5, 2011)

this is somthing I am interested in...


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Well you've come to the right place, when i have more time i can give you the basics. Read all you can and try to find a breeder near you that breeds APBT's in true form, you can learn a great deal from a proper dogmen. I don't have the time right now but any questions you have feel free to PM me or ask here and when i can i will be more than happy to help, theres a lot of knowledge on this forum.


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## carson1391 (Apr 5, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> Well you've come to the right place, when i have more time i can give you the basics. Read all you can and try to find a breeder near you that breeds APBT's in true form, you can learn a great deal from a proper dogmen. I don't have the time right now but any questions you have feel free to PM me or ask here and when i can i will be more than happy to help, theres a lot of knowledge on this forum.


 Ok np, Thx for all your help KM, see ya around!


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

My advise is find some close ADBA shows.near you. Get out there talk to some people and see the dogs you like. Don't be afraid to go and talk to people.who have dogs you like pm if you got questions you think I can help with.


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## carson1391 (Apr 5, 2011)

Rudy4747 said:


> My advise is find some close ADBA shows.near you. Get out there talk to some people and see the dogs you like. Don't be afraid to go and talk to people.who have dogs you like pm if you got questions you think I can help with.


Thx Rudy, I was looking at Red Nose American Pit Bull Terrier Puppies for Sale
Some of their dogs are nice but could be more toned/muscular and cut. Lets say i was interested in getting, I ask to see health screenings and ped? How do I know these dogs are good and have potential to get the desired look I am going for? You cant tell in a puppy.. just by looking at their parents?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

how many other dogs do you have? What are you planning to do with both dogs as your pup gets older? That would be my major concern when a newbie gets another APBT.


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## Eric (Oct 21, 2010)

Mach0 said:


> I never realized how tightly bred Ava is.


Yeah, me either. I think because I am startling to learn more about game dogs, I understand it better. But wow, 4 times Jeep and 4 times Tab.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

carson1391 said:


> Thx Rudy, I was looking at Red Nose American Pit Bull Terrier Puppies for Sale
> Some of their dogs are nice but could be more toned/muscular and cut. Lets say i was interested in getting, I ask to see health screenings and ped? How do I know these dogs are good and have potential to get the desired look I am going for? You cant tell in a puppy.. just by looking at their parents?


Also, if your looking for a well bred game dog or closest breeding as possible to what the APBT purpose is, you won't find those kind of breeders online. Most online breeders claiming to be breeding APBT's are American Bully breeders further misinforming the public as to what the breed actually is, such as the breeder you have posted. I don't know the peds on the dogs so i won't comment on them completely but if i recall correctly, most of their dogs are Bully.

If you want an APBT you generally have to go on word of mouth and really establish yourself with the breeder that you are serious and knowledgable enough of ownership. Majority of breeders with this breed (as well as Bandogges, Filas, Presas and many more) that i have known or known of will not just sell or give a pup to anyone because they know the potential of failure for the pup is much higher with someone they are unknown about vs someone they know and trust will properly care for them.

Of course, not all breeders are like this however this is my own experience when it comes to breeders. I would much rather put my trust in a breeder who does not advertise publicly vs. going to some random breeder website not knowing what im getting myself into. Unfortunately most (not all) breeders that heavily advertise and have websites are in it for one thing and thats not to benefit the breed its to make money. A true breeder will breed on a soul purpose of enhancing the breed and breeding for a specific purpose and traits, not to charge $5,000 for some pup.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Eric said:


> Yeah, me either. I think because I am startling to learn more about game dogs, I understand it better. But wow, 4 times Jeep and 4 times Tab.


Click on tab lol. Its as tight as it can get.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

LOL .. @ ya'll about AVA.. yeah shes as pure Jeep as your gonna get ... 


I gotta say PK,KM and Mach0 :clap: :goodpost:'s ...


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

carson1391 said:


> Thx Rudy, I was looking at Red Nose American Pit Bull Terrier Puppies for Sale
> Some of their dogs are nice but could be more toned/muscular and cut. Lets say i was interested in getting, I ask to see health screenings and ped? How do I know these dogs are good and have potential to get the desired look I am going for? You cant tell in a puppy.. just by looking at their parents?


You really need to go out to some ADBA and UKC events and get some hands on experience with the dogs before deciding if the breed is right for you and picking a pup.

FYI just because a dog has a certain look to it doesn't mean it is a game type dog or even bred from them. I think that term is thrown around way too much. Nor does it mean it will have any working drive at all to do dog sport activities like agility.

A good breeder can evaluate pups and have a pretty decent idea though it isn't fool proof of how the pup will develop. Though possible DA isn't one of the things you usually can tell when they are that young.

I put up threads on Finding a Breeder 101 and also evaluating/ picking a puppy that you may want to take a peek at.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

They have some ADBA shows and a club in NC.
Western Carolina APBTC
Here is your local club. See what they have going on get out there and see some good dog up close so you can really get a feel for what you like and can handle.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Welcome to the forum!You've come to a great place to learn more on the breed.Kudos to you for wanting to find out more before getting a dog.

Also another thing to consider with the apbt is base housing.I believe I read that right,that you're in the USMC?Alot of bases have breed restrictions if you live in base housing.Most do not allow apbt's.

Stick around and Semper Fi!

Oh and thank you for your service to our great country!:clap:


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Patch-O-Pits said:


> You really need to go out to some ADBA and UKC events and get some hands on experience with the dogs before deciding if the breed is right for you and picking a pup.
> 
> FYI just because a dog has a certain look to it doesn't mean it is a game type dog or even bred from them. I think that term is thrown around way too much. Nor does it mean it will have any working drive at all to do dog sport activities like agility.
> 
> ...


An APBT bred true will have game and especially will have drive, you take the gameness out of the breed and breed it completely as a show dog it turns into an AST or as i hear often, "petbull"


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## sbushman (Apr 26, 2011)

KM you are very wrong.........sorry to say. I have very well bred dogs. 2 are champion show dogs, 1 of them has 10 flyball titles. I can take any one of my "well bred" American Pit Bull terriers to the dog park and i have coplete control over my dogs at all times.

It is not the dog, but how you train them. Yes I have working dogs. They will do anything that I ask of them and are always willing to learn more. Do they have DA, of course, but it is controlable with the proper training.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

sbushman said:


> KM you are very wrong.........sorry to say. I have very well bred dogs. 2 are champion show dogs, 1 of them has 10 flyball titles. I can take any one of my "well bred" American Pit Bull terriers to the dog park and i have coplete control over my dogs at all times.
> 
> It is not the dog, but how you train them. Yes I have working dogs. They will do anything that I ask of them and are always willing to learn more. Do they have DA, of course, but it is controlable with the proper training.


Welcome, mate. This is going to be epic...


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

sbushman said:


> KM you are very wrong.........sorry to say. I have very well bred dogs. 2 are champion show dogs, 1 of them has 10 flyball titles. I can take any one of my "well bred" American Pit Bull terriers to the dog park and i have coplete control over my dogs at all times.
> 
> It is not the dog, but how you train them. Yes I have working dogs. They will do anything that I ask of them and are always willing to learn more. Do they have DA, of course, but it is controlable with the proper training.


I agree it is manageable, but novices APBT owners have no business at a dog park, in my opinion.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

sbushman said:


> KM you are very wrong.........sorry to say. I have very well bred dogs. 2 are champion show dogs, 1 of them has 10 flyball titles. I can take any one of my "well bred" American Pit Bull terriers to the dog park and i have coplete control over my dogs at all times.
> 
> It is not the dog, but how you train them. Yes I have working dogs. They will do anything that I ask of them and are always willing to learn more. Do they have DA, of course, but it is controlable with the proper training.


You have very well show bred dogs, regardless if its APBT bloodlines or not that not what an APBT was designed to do. (not knocking it down but if you want a well bred APBT in true form its not coming off a show line)

Im not going to apologize if my comment insulted you and im also not going to comment on the "its not the dog but how you train them" comment you have made either. That may be true with some breeds but an APBT bred to its TRUE FORM as my original post stated is GOING to have game and drive. You've obviously never owned a true bulldog before and with that kind of thinking its a good thing.

Show me where i have ever said you cant manage DA? I'd love to see where i have said it? I don't believe i have.. I know i can find several threads (perhaps even this one) where i have in fact said with proper and extensive training DA is manageable.. However DA and GAME are not the same thing bud. Game is much less manageable than DA but its possible.

Thats all the time i have to comment so i hope i made my points clear.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

:rofl: hahahahaha! Yeah give it time and a true APBT will grab a dog; not necessarily because the APBT is OVERLY DA, but because the other dog messed up in the dog world. Its best for all dogs to give a true APBT wide birth any dog that doesnt better be submissive and omega out.. turnin the azzwhoopin into play... curing will promote a game dog to make the squeaky toy squeak more.. LOL not good, two different actions. Also the true APBT will grab a dog without warning.. example.. 

Rhodesian is acting overly aggressive and So has a GSD .. people have noticed the signs and try to make room to avoid each other and give each other space. In doing so they take their problematic DA dog into the vacinity of the APBT and his owner, key word his owner.. That dog has gotten that APBTs attention dont think it hasnt.. APBTs notice all forms of DA and canine speak... They are the canine in the rawest form. That GSD or Rhodey just got GOT.. and everyone will blame the quiet lil ball of fury as there was no sign on his/her part other than the flash to settle that other dogs . People will blame the APBT.. everytime... They panic, and forget their dog has been acting a fool the WHOLE time.. 
Someone calls the police and reports your dog attacked their dog, and it starts. 


PEOPLE......... are the problem I will agree with that.. APBTs dont belong at dog parks, I agree with that... 

TRUE ABPTs dont really need to be anywhere but the country; only place they have SEVERAL jobs left, the best odds in the city are a K9 or service dog trainer.. They are the Old Yeller in the truest since... I love the blackmouth cur people who try to say Old yellar was a curdog, LOL where do you think you got your curdogs let alone the name; it was game or it was cur ... in the book the cowboy rescued Yellar from a dog fighter  

anyway.. that was funny... Good Show.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> :rofl: hahahahaha! Yeah give it time and a true APBT will grab a dog; not necessarily because the APBT is OVERLY DA, but because the other dog messed up in the dog world. Its best for all dogs to give a true APBT wide birth any dog that doesnt better be submissive and omega out.. turnin the azzwhoopin into play... curing will promote a game dog to make the squeaky toy squeak more.. LOL not good, two different actions. Also the true APBT will grab a dog without warning.. example..
> 
> Rhodesian is acting overly aggressive and So has a GSD .. people have noticed the signs and try to make room to avoid each other and give each other space. In doing so they take their problematic DA dog into the vacinity of the APBT and his owner, key word his owner.. That dog has gotten that APBTs attention dont think it hasnt.. APBTs notice all forms of DA and canine speak... They are the canine in the rawest form. That GSD or Rhodey just got GOT.. and everyone will blame the quiet lil ball of fury as there was no sign on his/her part other than the flash to settle that other dogs . People will blame the APBT.. everytime... They panic, and forget their dog has been acting a fool the WHOLE time..
> Someone calls the police and reports your dog attacked their dog, and it starts.
> ...


And all thats left to say is :goodpost:


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## Kev.K (Sep 1, 2010)

I'm sorry I started reading this thread. Reminds me of alot of complaining that stopped me bothering with the el presa forum. 
Regardless of bloodline, drive etc. A balanced dog with an experienced owner should be fine in any dog park. 
Dogs are social, domesticated animals. Not lions or tigers. 
I don't think these "expert breeders" understand that they only fuel BSL with their idiotic comments.


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

Kev.K said:


> I'm sorry I started reading this thread. Reminds me of alot of bitching that stopped me bothering with the el presa forum.
> Regardless of bloodline, drive etc. A balanced dog with an experienced owner should be fine in any dog park.
> Dogs are social, domesticated animals. Not lions or tigers.
> I don't think these "expert breeders" understand that they only fuel BSL with their idiotic comments.


 i believe your wrong .. outta sight outta mind . good rule to live by .
my dogs dont go anywer in public not on a leash . 
if i see another dog on the street , i move to the other side .
my very well trained byb girl is sweet as pie . she had a lab rush her and she was doin the grab n shake before i could react .. on her leash. lucky she is small enough for me to deal with .. i always carry a plastic tent stake with me to break em now.

if that had been my brock , it woulda hit the fan


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## CaLi 2 B.C. (Dec 4, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> You have very well show bred dogs, regardless if its APBT bloodlines or not that not what an APBT was designed to do. (not knocking it down but if you want a well bred APBT in true form its not coming off a show line)
> 
> Im not going to apologize if my comment insulted you and im also not going to comment on the "its not the dog but how you train them" comment you have made either. That may be true with some breeds but an APBT bred to its TRUE FORM as my original post stated is GOING to have game and drive. You've obviously never owned a true bulldog before and with that kind of thinking its a good thing.
> 
> Show me where i have ever said you cant manage DA? I'd love to see where i have said it? I don't believe i have.. I know i can find several threads (perhaps even this one) where i have in fact said with proper and extensive training DA is manageable.. However DA and GAME are not the same thing bud.


You must have no idea who you are trying to school this time.LOL i can only hope she replies to this..


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> You must have no idea who you are trying to school this time.LOL i can only hope she replies to this..


If you want to just comment to talk about me, theres an entire thread on me which has pretty much ended in an understanding. This post i don't see has any relevance at all except the fact you hope she replies.

If she does she does, I have said nothing wrong and i dont know of one dog man that would disagree with what i have said for that matter just any responsible owner.

This breed has no business at the dog park no matter how well trained it is and APBT's are not designed to be show dogs in a pure form (or as close to it as possible) why do you think the AST even exists?

If you disagree, than share it. No need to attempt to throw punches at me, its a dog forum throwing sarcastic remarks like that isn't going to accomplish anything.


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## CaLi 2 B.C. (Dec 4, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> If you want to just comment to talk about me, theres an entire thread on me which has pretty much ended in an understanding. This post i don't see has any relevance at all except the fact you hope she replies.
> 
> If she does she does, I have said nothing wrong and i dont know of one dog man that would disagree with what i have said for that matter just any responsible owner.
> 
> ...


Im just tired of seeing you on here talking like nobody on here has a clue what's goin on.Do you even own a real pit bull?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> Im just tired of seeing you on here talking like nobody on here has a clue what's goin on.Do you even own a real pit bull?


I have in the past if you didn't assume what i currently own is the only dogs i've ever had than you would probably have more of an open mind.

Im not talking to people like everyone doesn't know whats going on, personally im sick of people defending the dog park and im not the only one here that would be blunt about it. Its fairly hard to determine how a post is supposed to be read so if you read it like im trying to "school" or be "talk down" on someone, 9 times out of 10 thats not how im meaning it.

Im not going to respond to this crap anymore, especially on this thread. If you have a problem with me or my posts im sure like any forum you can file a complaint if you really want me gone.


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## CaLi 2 B.C. (Dec 4, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> You have very well show bred dogs, regardless if its APBT bloodlines or not that not what an APBT was designed to do. (not knocking it down but if you want a well bred APBT in true form its not coming off a show line)
> 
> . You've obviously never owned a true bulldog before and with that kind of thinking its a good thing.
> 
> Show me where i have ever said you cant manage DA? I'd love to see where i have said it? I don't believe i have.. I know i can find several threads (perhaps even this one) where i have in fact said with proper and extensive training DA is manageable.. However DA and GAME are not the same thing bud


This is part of what frustrates me... Whether you agree with her taking her dogs to a park or not.Who are you to say "youve never owned a true bulldog before ect" Thats foolish as you obviously dont know her ,where her dog came from or the many titles they have earned.What accomplishments have you achieved to put you into the position you think you are in?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> This is part of what frustrates me... Whether you agree with her taking her dogs to a park or not.Who are you to say "youve never owned a true bulldog before ect" Thats foolish as you obviously dont know her ,where her dog came from or the many titles they have earned.What accomplishments have you achieved to put you into the position you think you are in?


Perhaps that was a bit of a bold statement that i shouldn't of said. But i did say that because 1. Defending dog parks, if youve owned a bulldog than you should know better than to defend them.. especially if youve seen a true fight and not a "scruff" 2. "Show bred" APBT's are not what the APBT is, its not what the breed was designed to do. You take the "game" out of the dog its no longer an APBT..


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

its like saying if I have a border collie and choose to have it be a couch potatoe , does that mean its not a border collie? thats the only thing I dont understand with the true 'APBT" comment alot of you make no matter what a dog is doing if its a certain breed its a certain breed , just because it isnt doing what that breed was originally bred to do { which I dont know anyone who does what there dog was originally bred to do in this day in age so would anyone truely have a tru APBT if this was the case?} doesnt change the lineage and doesnt change the breed. maybe you could explain this better to me cause I really dont get it. And saying that show APBT's are amstaffs or petbulls , amstaffs I was under the understanding that amstaffs were completely different bloodlines and very obviously physically you can see a difference for most APBT's so are they not a breed in its own and if it is then a APBT that happens to be in the show ring cant be an amstaff. { please dont read this with attitude im seriously trying to understand this thought process some have on this}


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

angelbaby said:


> its like saying if I have a border collie and choose to have it be a couch potatoe , does that mean its not a border collie? thats the only thing I dont understand with the true 'APBT" comment alot of you make no matter what a dog is doing if its a certain breed its a certain breed , just because it isnt doing what that breed was originally bred to do { which I dont know anyone who does what there dog was originally bred to do in this day in age so would anyone truely have a tru APBT if this was the case?} doesnt change the lineage and doesnt change the breed. maybe you could explain this better to me cause I really dont get it. And saying that show APBT's are amstaffs or petbulls , amstaffs I was under the understanding that amstaffs were completely different bloodlines and very obviously physically you can see a difference for most APBT's so are they not a breed in its own and if it is then a APBT that happens to be in the show ring cant be an amstaff. { please dont read this with attitude im seriously trying to understand this thought process some have on this}


Well I know that pets or after generations of not breedingfor work- they loose intensity. You won't see a real working collie in the house- not too many can deal with the natural nipping ( herding). Show bred Gsd's have more health issues than working Gsd's. Not only do they look different, they aren't as fast, no where near as intense of a dog, nor can they work like one. Like if someone asks if they have a gsd or a malinois, you will often get the " if you had a belgium, you would know." Same goes for bullies. Not too long ago they weren't recognized as a different breed. Yes, some have more drive, more athletic, or even DA. Yet, they aren't the same as apbt's. I would reccomend a staff or bully to someone who never has gotten into the breed. I hope that made sense.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

but does a show GSD become a different breed then a working GSD? lol thats all im trying to understand I get how they do change a bit but how do you say its not a true APBT if its not [] cause most peoples APBT's id say the majority are never and wont ever be []. What makes a true APBT in these days? do you look for working dogs used in hunting or schuntzhund ? do those things count when looking for a true working APBT? Im just confused becasue the reason behind the breed is no longer allowed in most countrys these days. I could understand it if they re worded it and didnt try and say oh you have a petbull or AMstaff because its not a working dog and rather say I have a working APBT or a show APBT , just having a hard time getting the lets call this a different breed becasue its no longer working lol, does that make any sense? Im talking about this in PM with someone and it is making sense in the way it was worded there but I still see 2 sides lol. the bullies I feel should never have been looked at as the same breed as the APBT since it is a mix between "atleast 2 breeds lol" but that is a whole other topic lol, but a show APBT and a working APBT there was no mixing in either right?


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Eric said:


> Yeah, me either. I think because I am startling to learn more about game dogs, I understand it better. But wow, 4 times Jeep and 4 times Tab.


Nicely inbred IMO, would def do an outcross or a line if she was ever bred.

I love bogart and ava
:woof:


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

angelbaby said:


> but does a show GSD become a different breed then a working GSD? lol thats all im trying to understand I get how they do change a bit but how do you say its not a true APBT if its not [] cause most peoples APBT's id say the majority are never and wont ever be []. What makes a true APBT in these days? do you look for working dogs used in hunting or schuntzhund ? do those things count when looking for a true working APBT? Im just confused becasue the reason behind the breed is no longer allowed in most countrys these days. I could understand it if they re worded it and didnt try and say oh you have a petbull or AMstaff because its not a working dog and rather say I have a working APBT or a show APBT , just having a hard time getting the lets call this a different breed becasue its no longer working lol, does that make any sense? Im talking about this in PM with someone and it is making sense in the way it was worded there but I still see 2 sides lol. the bullies I feel should never have been looked at as the same breed as the APBT since it is a mix between "atleast 2 breeds lol" but that is a whole other topic lol, but a show APBT and a working APBT there was no mixing in either right?


I wouldnt say amstaff by breed but more so definition. As the amstaff is/ was the same dog taken in a different direction for the show ring. I think the issue most ppl have -is can it work. A show gsd MIGHT be able to work. A working line gsd CAN AND WILL work( what it was intended to do.) While [ ] is illegal here, it isn't in other countries and doesnt mean it isn't done. When bred for showing purposes - looks can change. Look at the original sharpei vs now, show husky vs working/performance bred husky, or the DDB vs today's french mastiff. They share the same DNA but are not the same dog. You might find some capable of achieving it's original task but far and few between. Unless, you get thereal deal.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I can understand that , but then wouldnt it be better wording for them to say working APBT vs show APBT rather then saying your dogs are more amstaff ? I just had trouble grasping how a dog was defined as a different breed becasue the task they performed wasnt the one they were originally bred for  good explaining macho


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

I just saw this post. Bahamutt's dogs came from Matrix kennels. Is all I have to say on the subject. Oh, and the light rednose bitch posted earlier here, I think that's Kristen's Sydney. She had a website at Home - American Pit Bull Terriers, but I can't get in there right now. Maybe its down, or maybe she exceeded her bandwidth. I don't know how Sydney is bred.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

angelbaby said:


> I can understand that , but then wouldnt it be better wording for them to say working APBT vs show APBT rather then saying your dogs are more amstaff ? I just had trouble grasping how a dog was defined as a different breed becasue the task they performed wasnt the one they were originally bred for  good explaining macho


Ha- yea well think of the old AKC folks who wanted nothing to do with the [ ]
They took the apbt and dubbed it amstaff for the show ring. Same  in this case. Just many of the ppl still have adba or ukc papers. Glad I could help.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

effen wah wah wah. and the topic was???

To the op, what you have desribed in your first post is pretty much a typical APBT compared to any other breed they all have their own traits ect but if you have never owned or realy want a specific line , do some more research and look around more. You may not make a real choice until you have seen many, but dont choose based on colour. 
Choose on what realy impressed you in an individual dog itself. It would be sad to make a wrong choice simply it has a red nose when the black black nose up the roads temp suited you more.

And regarding the dog you posted the pic of, any adba dog realy has the potential to look that way infact for 95% of them and gamebred types its up to you to get the dog in that condition, Sadie is very lucky she was able to get the dogs she has through a friend as genetics wise they are gifted dogs that have been bred with knowledge and care, with a little hard work and a decent diet her dogs will allways look great[i dont need to say this but Tara knows exactly where i am coming from most of us would love an opportunity to have either one of her dogs].

Having said all that make a choice on a type and bloodline you want and start rounding the options down and then move foward, and im not going to tell you your wrong with any "jeep" type choice, the popularity of jeep and the jeep mixes may set you up to either have an easier choice to make in the end or a harder one! Good luck.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL I am just now seeing this thanks everyone for showing my dog's love! And Jy is right Ava was given to me free of charge from a close friend. I was lucky to get her and she is awesome. If she were to ever be bred she would be outcrossed to a jocko/redboy dog a dog bred like her who is as tight as she is has to be outcrossed she was bred for brood stock according to her previous owner and her parent's came from the last litter white's KA produced before he died 3 days after he was bred. Bogart came from a private breeder and I couldn't be happier with him. Both dog's are very high strung, and require lot's of work. I don't think I could handle anymore dog's bred like these at this point. And I consider myself to be a responsible owner with a decent amount of experience. I am still learning everyday and my dog's have taught me a great deal. Just start slowly don't rush into anything. Analyze your situation and be realistic about what your jumping into. I hope you find the perfect dog for you. Thanks again everyone for showing my dog's love.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Mach0 said:


> Well I know that pets or after generations of not breedingfor work- they loose intensity. You won't see a real working collie in the house- not too many can deal with the natural nipping ( herding). Show bred Gsd's have more health issues than working Gsd's. Not only do they look different, they aren't as fast, no where near as intense of a dog, nor can they work like one. Like if someone asks if they have a gsd or a malinois, you will often get the " if you had a belgium, you would know."


 Breeding away the working ability of a GSD is like wiping the smile off the Mona Lisa - the beauty is still there, but the greatness is gone.








German Shepherd Dog, West German Show (High Lines). This is the breed type most popular in Germany, and which at its best probably comes closest to the Breed Standard. Representatives of this family can be successful show and breeding dogs, and still perform as herding, service, SAR and guide dogs, as well as reliable companions and sport dogs. They are shown world wide under the German SV system, which requires working titles of show and breeding dogs.They are predominantly black and red in colour, and exhibit a fluid, ground eating trot. Shortcomings which are most typical of this family are roached backs, fading pigmentation and weak temperament.








German Shepherd Dog, German Working Lines (also Belgian and Dutch lines, which are NOT related to Belgian or Dutch shepherds, which are different breeds - see below). These dogs have been bred primarily for the sport of Schutzhund, and as service dogs. They excel as police, military, SAR and drug/bomb detection dogs. If you seriously want a working dog, or one that can be competitive in sport, these are the lines you would consider first. They are less likely to show the elegant conformation typical of show lines, but many, like the dog illustrated, show excellent structure, and they are powerful and athletic. Sable, black and bicolour are typical, although black & tan is also common. Some show more drive and aggression than would be wanted in a family or guide dog, although there are many more that are suitable for any purpose.








German Shepherd Dog, East German Lines (DDR). This family was developed in East Germany from those dogs remaining in the East after WW 2. Those foundation dogs predated the show/working split of post-war West Germany, and were not extreme in either conformation or drive. The DDR dogs tend to show solid working structure with heavy bone and massive heads, and strong temperament. Some dogs can show a degree of sharpness. Overall, they tend to be very sound. Some breeders are attempting to preserve the pure DDR lines, but they are more commonly being integrated into the working lines with good success.









German Shepherd Dog, American Show Lines. This family has been the numerically dominant type in North America since the 1970's. The entire family is heavily inbred on one extraordinarily successful show and stud dog at that time, GV Lance of FranJo. They are shown under the American & Canadian Kennel Club systems, which require no working titles or hip certification. In general, they are bred for an extreme trotting structure often showing excessive length of body and rear angulation. Unfortunately, the extreme physical type wanted by specialty judges is not conducive to the speed and jumping ability required of a working dog. Temperament is generally soft, and drive is variable. Weak nerves are a problem, as are other health issues. Recently, some breeders are showing more interest in obedience, herding and agility tests.Hip status is generally good. At their best, members of this family, if not extreme, can be fine family and obedience dogs.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

It's funny- you should see the debates on a gsd forum I joined. They talk about the differences like they do here or other forums ( apbt vs amstaff )
I myself, am still new to the whole gsd scene. Let's just say, this probably won't be my last neither lol.



pitbullmamanatl said:


> Breeding away the working ability of a GSD is like wiping the smile off the Mona Lisa - the beauty is still there, but the greatness is gone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mr.jason24 (May 23, 2011)

Somebody needs to feed that dog....smh...


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

mr.jason24 said:


> Somebody needs to feed that dog....smh...


LOL Feed what dog what are you talking about dude?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

mr.jason24 said:


> Somebody needs to feed that dog....smh...


find what dog?


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

mr.jason24 said:


> Somebody needs to feed that dog....smh...


Huh? :hammer:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

carson1391 said:


> this is somthing I am interested in...












He must be talking about Sydney .. If you think this dog needs to be fed your freaking blind! She's not a bully she is an APBT this right here is called Conditioned! SMH

Let me show you the difference....

Skinny underfed emaciated










Conditioned lean athlete excellent muscle tone and definition a starved dog can not maintain muscle in order to maintain muscle a dog must be getting adequate amounts of protein or muscle is lost do your research!


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

OHHHH feed thought he said find.. but ya good post sadie.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Ps I know this dog's owner and Kristen takes EXCELLENT care of her dog's they are both on Raw Diets and she spends a great deal of time working and feeding her dogs!!! You need to stick around you have much to learn if you think this dog is underfed!


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

mr.jason24 said:


> Somebody needs to feed that dog....smh...


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

No cookie for the troll.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

LOLL right! Sid is in awesome condition. Such a beautiful dog. People tell me I need to feed Dosia too, they just don't know what these dogs are suppose to look like.


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

kg420 said:


> LOLL right! Sid is in awesome condition. Such a beautiful dog. People tell me I need to feed Dosia too, they just don't know what these dogs are suppose to look like.


It's sad too, I see so many obese dogs... Kind of funny, people told me Dakota wasn't fed enough even when he was fat.... You know, the talk about not being able to maintain muscle without proper food is getting old. 

Dosia looks good by the way.


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