# Play "fighting" how much is too much?



## GreenSangha (Jun 6, 2008)

I am fostering a Pit mix, a 3 year old girl who was 
probably used for breeding. She was very malnourished when I found her and was still lactating, but had to be taken off the streets, so I agreed to foster her for the Stray Rescue. 

She was very docile when she came into my home with my two English Springers and became very attached to me and is a real lovey-dovey girl. 

Over the past 3 months she has gotten healthy and been teaching my rescued Springer 
to play, which is great (poor guy never learned before coming into my home and my older girl isn't into dog play). However they play "fight" which is hysterically funny to watch. The enjoy clashing open mouths together and grabbing at one another's ears and cheeks going "grrrrrrr, grrrrrr" quietly, sort of "under their breaths". It is all smiles except when she overwhelms my other dog and then I calm them down. So far so good.

She never bites, or at least not that he is indicating. I have accidently gotten caught in the cross-fire of their mouths and they both use "soft mouth". She also nibbles on his neck and back to get him going when he won't play...like she is eating and ear of corn (I have to borrow a camcorder and capture it as it is so fun to watch).
They both use calming signals when playing, and take turns being alpha (although she is alpha a lot). They sleep cuddled together, often with her plopped or draped over him like a puppy pile and they both seem happy. 

My question is this: should I be at all concerned about the nature of the play? I'm not alarmed, just curious, wanting to learn and a little bit cautious because I've never seen a Springer do this kind of play-fighting, although I'm sure other dogs do.

I am adjusting my behavior as I realize I've given mixed signals about my alpha status and I can see as she is stronger that she is trying to climb the ranks. I know I fell prey to pitfalls of taking in a fragile dog and wanting to build it up, I made the mistake of doing it in ways that would be a problem once she was stronger. Hence, she no longer is allowed to drape herself across me like I am her personal bark-o-lounger when watching t.v. 

So, now, as I reaffirm MY place in the pack, and correct her roughness when it gets out of hand while playing, should I have any other serious concern about the safety of the kind of play she is initiating? Will a pit, if allowed to "play fight", get confused about where the line is? So far, both my other dogs put her in her place. My older girl will have none of it. It is Zach who is exhausted from his new playmate and who is very passive and is being a bit bullied (boy, that word sure fits, lol!).

I love this sweet girl and she really has been a teacher and therapy-dog for my boy Zach. I just want some information so I can be realistic about whether mine is the right home for her and whether she is right for my other dogs.

Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

The nature of the play?, No. What it could easily turn into?, Yes. You have no idea what kinda history she has...
She may indeed be a great dog, a real lover, but you never want to leave all your dogs ALONE together. Pits are alot of fun and there isn't a whole heck of a lot wrong with them, but fights do happen here and there. Just be prepared. Keep 5gal buckets of water outside to dump on them if they start fighting and an airhorn inside. These two things will startle the dogs just long enough for you to jump in and separate them. You might not ever have any problems though, just be ready all the time. They're great dogs and I'm sure that after you foster this one you'll want another one! Oh, and you came to the right place... Welcome!


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I would just watch closely. I used to have 4 pits at once going at it and you can really tell by watching when the attitude start to change. If she has no current issues I don't see a problem but I would not leave them un attended. Good job on your part see that you need to re establish your place. Left undone that could lead to big problems.

As a side note thank you very much for what you are doing. I am sure these dogs very much appreciate the home you have provided them.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Watch closely, and buy a breakstick.


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

I would just watch them closely, and you really should buy a breakstick like indicated above. Pitbulls tend to play rough and they have a high tolerance for pain. She can probably take more than your spaniels. But you sure do not want her to get a hold of one of them, they probably wouldn't have a chance. She is in a "new pack".. so therefore ranks are trying to be established, so you will have to always keep yourself as the alpha. 
How long have you had her?
When your other dog starts to get wore out and tired, you need to seperate them or make her leave him alone so he can rest. A pitbull has stamina from hell, they remind me of the energizer bunny...keep going and going and going.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

I know a guy who breeds English Springers and from what I've seen and heard, his males are pretty aggressive with each other. I'm just telling you that because you should not underestimate the breed, they will fight. The bulldog on the other hand, if true to type, will never allow herself to be dominated by any dog. She will not respect the normal pack order. If it does come down to a serious show of force from the Springer, you are going to have a bad situation on your hands. She also, if true to type, will not recognize submission. So, gaining the "top dog" status will not be the end of it. I've seen this first hand on too many occasions, and live with the situation myself. Pit bulls do not respect or recognize pack order, they only recognize opponents. Just be careful and keep the play to a minimum.


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## GreenSangha (Jun 6, 2008)

*More background*

Thanks for your input. I just wanted to add a couple of things. My older girl will show fear-aggression and ownership of her things, so I am separating them when they have chews, and I am stopping Harley when she barks at Zoe to get her to "play". Zoe snarls and growls as well, and looks quite fierce, although it is mostly for show - but Harley gets the message. As a matter of fact, Harley won't go retrieve her Kong when it goes near Zoe but otherwise will lie next to her or walk by her. On the bed, Harley always sleeps at my feet and the others "higher" up. Harley absolutely knows that Zoe is alpha.

I think she is playing with Zach, but also wants to move up to the next level above him. I have been doing something the past day that seems to be helping. When she tries to mount him or push him down I go to her and put her down on her side to submit to me (neat trick, sitting next to the side of the body you reach under the belly and take the two legs farther away and pull them toward you - the dog goes down - you can do it one leg at a time to be gentler about it). In addition I am doing all the other things that communicate status include feeding her last, telling her when she can and cannot get on the couch, etc. - standard pack leader stuff.

Meanwhile, is it the concensus that she should not be free with the other dogs when I am out? Also, does the fact that she is a "mix" change the risk of aggression with her?

Thanks again for helping this newbie pit owner help.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

The "mix" factor definitely can curb her tendancies. One reason I don't like mixes is due to the fact that I don't know other breeds and what to expect from them. I guess it really all depends on her individual personality. (I did not realize she was mixed:hammer: ) Just be very careful and assert your dominance consistantly with all the dogs. Age also plays a big factor. You never know when an individual dog will "turn on".


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

. while they play, you can work on the re direct witch is real handy when you need it. My 8 year old gives the command and they stop, sit and face her to get their treat or next command. she can stop our dogs dead in their tracks with 1 word.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

I can stop mine on command in every situation but a scuffle. If it's on, I gotta roll up my sleeves and get in there. Really a pain in the butt so I just avoid the situation all together.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Avoiding the situation does work the best


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