# Back yard Breeding



## Dwayne (Jan 4, 2011)

Hi guys, I know most of your sentiments when it comes to breeding dogs, but before you start to argue bare in mind I don’t live in the USA, we don’t have a dog overpopulation problem. It is not easy or cheap to import a dog from the USA. There are no pitbull registries where I live, and no professional pitbull breeders. Pitbulls are not accepted by our only kennel club. That being said I want a Bandog and I am attempting to produce one. The mother is a pitbull 45lbs the father is a 130 bullmastiff/ American bulldog cross. I realise most breed standards for bandogs are pretty loose. I am aiming for a 85-95lb dog with good muscle tone. That behaves just like my pitbull. I know this will not happen in one go, I know that they are 2-3 different breeds involved (depending on how u look at things) and the behaviour likes and dislikes might varey. Both dogs appear healthy according to my vet, the female was inseminated by my vet. The bullmastiff/American bulldog cross was done because of a shortage of American bulldogs on the island.

I was wondering if anybody uses bullmastiff and American bulldog together in their bandog program and if anybody has any pictures on any such mixes.

Thanx for your replies.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

I dont know anyone who has this particular cross up, heres a vid of one I just found.




What do you mean by "That behaves like my pit bull? My bandog "type" is nothing like my pit bulls
(old pic)


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## destinoscelgo (Dec 28, 2011)

What are your intentions of this mix? Do you have a job already planned for the litter? 
My advice to you would be if you want to create this bandogge, cull the ones that don't make the cut...I am not sure where you are from, but I'm sure there is no need for extra useless dogs if your means are for working purposes


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

(new pic)
Bobs mom was american bull dog


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## Dwayne (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanx for the replies I am from Barbados. 

When I said behave like my pitbull I meant I don't want the laid back lazy mastiff behavior I have seen exhibited from the mastiffs and bullmastiffs I have met.

The Purposes I have in mind are some weight pulling and guarding my house and family.


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## Dwayne (Jan 4, 2011)

I like Bob, something along the line of the old pic of bob is what I had in mind from a physical perspective.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

In order to achieve any type of working abilities you must first breed for it.. You can't produce what isn't there.. "Old type" Bandogs were used for various functions however one thing that has always been instilled is Personal Protection.. Much like APBTs, however, all around working abilities can be instilled so long as the breeder has chosen proper foundation stock as well as keeping instilled through the generations..

Bandogs in every sense of the hound behind the name are world class workers, not as you say "lazy dogs".. So in that respected sense, it is achieved..

HOWEVER you cannot take just a mastiff and APBT, slap them together and expect a well rounded Bandog.. It takes years to perfect a new line of hound, it takes years of research to fully understand behavior and genetics. I would not condom nor accept someone without the proper mentor, studies and research slapping some dogs together and "breeding". You get what you get and honestly if you have no mentor available nor a breeder to help guide you in the right direction and give you much needed hands on experience you have no business owning such an animal.

You think people are worried about "Pit Bulls?" Try controlling a high drive mastiff with mentally and physical strength to do some serious damage to a man and lose that control for a second you and your dog are in a world of hurt.

My Bandog was bred down off proven game hounds and proven protection hounds.. I have what some may consider a "oddity" and that is the fact that he Bulldog mentality paired with Mastiff mentality.. High prey drive, rank drive, extremely DA, HA, strong nerves, solid structure and temperament.. Controllable through experienced hands. Some consider Mastiff cross, Bandog, whopper Bulldog, pit type Mastiff, cross... All in who you ask as it will depend on personal views of what a Bandog is.

Someone like Katrina Hartwell can be noted in that she believes a Bandog is purely a purpose crossed Mastiff and Bulldog, bred to for fill wide varieties of human based needs going on up to someone that seeks far more specific functions such as Lee Robinson, who believes the real purpose is Protection and any other potential abilities are secondary or sub functions.

Trying to keep this basic as possible for now so you can fully comprehend.

I would also ask why you would want to seek your own line, if you will of working mastiff when there are plenty of well established Bandogs out there.. A few being Cane Corso, Presa Canario, Spanish Alano, African Boerboel, Dogo Argentino, etc.. 

Theres no real reason to start yet another Bandog yard unless what your after as a breeder is offering something more than other Bandogs don't already offer you as the handler..


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## SideKick (Jul 18, 2011)

^^he said it was too expensive to import a dog. Which i believe. 

Dwayne make sure you keep a close eye on temperament as kmdogs said you could have monsters on your hand. Be prepared to do the right thing if that happens. Will this be a one time breeding or do you plan to turn this is into a program? I do know of one person who breeds American Bulldogs/Mastiffs as her main mix in bandog. She mainly competes in weightpull with her dogs.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

SideKick said:


> ^^he said it was too expensive to import a dog. Which i believe.
> 
> Dwayne make sure you keep a close eye on temperament as kmdogs said you could have monsters on your hand. Be prepared to do the right thing if that happens. Will this be a one time breeding or do you plan to turn this is into a program? I do know of one person who breeds American Bulldogs/Mastiffs as her main mix in bandog. She mainly competes in weightpull with her dogs.


Thats my point, if he can't get the proper mentor he shouldn't breed to begin with.. Far too risky when your dealing with hounds that are meant to stop a human threat.. You wont get stable mentality, endurance, drive and ability through one breeding of 50-50.. Some might turn out to be decent workers, others pet quality... Or you may end up with all pet quality.. And thats if the Bull/AmBulldog cross has been used for any sort of purpose or if its just a cross just a pointless breeding to begin with..

As i said you can't produce what isn't there. You can't produce the nerves, drive, ability needed for PP (or any hard labor work) out of a pet quality cross.. Not without generations of selective breeding which is pointless because even with the right foundation stock still takes several generations to get a proper consistency.

If WP is mostly what your friend does and not any real line of work she doesn't have Bandogs, just Mastiff crosses.


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## Dwayne (Jan 4, 2011)

Thank you for the advice, please don't my response the wrong way. It will cost over 10k US to import something I know nothing about from somebody I dont know. I know of a case were somebody imported a dog for almost 15k US and it was not what it was suppose to be. Also dogs cannot be legally imported from the US directly to Barbados Due to difference in Health laws the dog will have to be shipped to England first which not only increases expense but would cause my dog to be in the hand of too many individuals I don't know or trust. So importing a dog legally from the US is almost out of the question currently and will be for a long time.

I understand that you just dont get the "ideal dog" by slapping together a mastiff and a pitbull, I also understand that the ''ideal dog" wont come immediately. I am not a geneticist but I know what I want and I am willing to put in the work.

I have had many dogs including an unstable Akita/ pitbull cross. So I am aware of what can happen.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Dwayne said:


> Thank you for the advice, please don't my response the wrong way. It will cost over 10k US to import something I know nothing about from somebody I dont know. I know of a case were somebody imported a dog for almost 15k US and it was not what it was suppose to be. Also dogs cannot be legally imported from the US directly to Barbados Due to difference in Health laws the dog will have to be shipped to England first which not only increases expense but would cause my dog to be in the hand of too many individuals I don't know or trust. So importing a dog legally from the US is almost out of the question currently and will be for a long time.
> 
> I understand that you just dont get the "ideal dog" by slapping together a mastiff and a pitbull, I also understand that the ''ideal dog" wont come immediately. I am not a geneticist but I know what I want and I am willing to put in the work.
> 
> I have had many dogs including an unstable Akita/ pitbull cross. So I am aware of what can happen.


Im glad you understand what i'm getting at but like any breeder of any sorts, i don't recommend just going out and starting to breed without guidance.. Especially when you factor in the type of work you are wanting as an end result, without a mentor and doing research on genetics you have no idea what to look for.. You will have lots of pointless breedings and much higher culling rate than needed.. In other words, you'd be wasting away your foundation stock and your own time by not knowing what your doing.. No offense.

If you have no one in your area that has proper Bandogs or working mastiffs i would assume that there really isn't any stock of proven mastiffs or bulldogs?


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## Dwayne (Jan 4, 2011)

Many proven pitbulls. No working mastiffs or bulldogs.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Dwayne said:


> Many proven pitbulls. No working mastiffs or bulldogs.


If you don't have access to working Mastiffs you are going to have an extremely hard task in instilling (genetically) what is needed.. You wouldn't be able to use APBT x subpar Mastiff as you will just end up back tracking. If i don't tonight i will probably tomorrow since i've been home sick all week.. Get together some information for you articles, book reads etc that further explain what i'm going at on this.


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## Dwayne (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanx allot. I wish u better as well.


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## Vilebeast (Feb 29, 2012)

KM mentioned Dogo Argentino, had you considered importing one from Argentina? Being they have proven stock, and some really solid dogs. In this case proven "bandogs" if I am beginning to understand the term better. Only reason I ask is to see if it would be cheaper on you.

If that would work, reach out to Las Pampas Kennels in FL they are from Argentina and I know several people with really good catch dogs from them that excel in PP. *They might be able to help you, though they will most likely try to sell you a dog, before they referred you to someone else. *


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## Dwayne (Jan 4, 2011)

The Only places any kind of live stock can be directly imported from are England and St Lucia. The prices I was quoting are directly from England, from Argentina would be no different than from the US. Thanks for trying.


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## destinoscelgo (Dec 28, 2011)

I am also on the Dogo bandwagon. It really wouldn't get much better than that for you =)


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

There is at least 1 bandog breeder in Barbados. I googled it. Loyal Guard Kennels. I only glanced at the website, but he appears to work his dogs in weight pull as well as Sch. Whopper and Chimera were mentioned a couple of times. Apparently they aren't in Barbados, never mind. But I'll keep looking.


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## SideKick (Jul 18, 2011)

You can produce that from pet quality animals, but as you said it will take more then one breeding. infact it will take a few generations. And from his first post he doesn't want a bandog as you are thinking of kmdog. Atleast i hope not since he states he wants a bandog that acts like his pit bull.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Dwayne said:


> Many proven pitbulls. No working mastiffs or bulldogs.


Then choose an APBT what your calling "pit bull" that is in bandog status that pushes 80lbs. Breed BIGGER... According to Colby they started inbreeding the big APBTs together and were calling them American Bulldog and all of the scott strain and most of the Johnson are Colby based, they also have Rascal (Whos in many good dogs pedigrees) ... they had to water it down because a 85lbs + dog with game dog drive is an accident waiting to happen. Makes sense because I know of a 85lbs dog that is all Adams/Johnson on top and Wildside, Garner on the bottom that is 11yrs and still a hand full; to much for 9 of 10 people to handle, totally friendly with people but if it has four legs.. its on!

Stay away from mixmatching blood.. If you pick a large APBT to breed to begging the question; you'll have large working dogs and in all litters usually you have to cull if you don't then you have consistency from years of work or the on going plague of bad bred dogs in houses as pets.

KM gave some real good pointers and being that I lived in Wainae, HI for about 6months I understand "island life" and breeding your dog to what your asking about is a backyard breeder move. Ignorance IS limited knowledge = BYB (Back Yard Breeder). STAY AWAY FROM CROSSES .. Use your PURE apbt and BREED smaller or larger by SELECTIVE BREEDING 

I brought whopper dogs down to 35lbs using extremely game bulldog (APBT) crossing in and doubling up. WHOPPER is a bandog strain of APBT that are 80+lbs and harbor a lot of bad traits from BYB actions. SELECTIVE BREEDING.. You can create bulldogs, bandogs, terriers, and hounds all from selective breeding APBTs that are true to the source.

All I'm givin away for free...... GREAT QUESTION!! 
@ KM .. :goodpost:'s!!!


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

So is anyone concerned about breeding a little 45 lb bitch to a male that weighs a 130 lbs? Can't the pups be to big for a mom that small and then a c-section needed? I know of people breeding smaller males to larger bitches but the female is almost smaller by 100 lbs. Just curious if thats not a cause for concern.


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Blue_Nose_Bella said:


> So is anyone concerned about breeding a little 45 lb bitch to a male that weighs a 130 lbs? Can't the pups be to big for a mom that small and then a c-section needed? I know of people breeding smaller males to larger bitches but the female is almost smaller by 100 lbs. Just curious if thats not a cause for concern.


I'm curious about this as well.


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## Dwayne (Jan 4, 2011)

From my readings pit bull puppies are 8 ounces and up
Bulldogs are around 10- 14 ounces
Bull mastiffs around 10-14 ounces

I asked my Vet he said it will be okay.


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## luv4pitbullss (Dec 20, 2011)

I love my pitbulls but trust me you dont wanna breed them. It would be ok if you was a "Breeder" and knew what you was doing. I aint gonna lie i did this a while back and didnt know anything about this. Thanks gosh i found this site and all these wonderful people helped me throught it. It was my first litter she had 10 of them. You had to sit by her side constantly to make sure she didnt smash any of them and made sure they ALL ate good. It was a HUGE responcablity and i learned to never do it again


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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

You've been given pretty solid advice in this thread so far. IMO, your best bet is to import a Dogo (or similar) Yes, it is prohibitively expensive, but so is breeding if done right. Plus there is the issue of what to do with the other 10-15 puppies produced in each litter. Are you really up to culling them? By culling them I do mean killing them (placing pups of that combination of breeds who DON'T have the temperament you are looking for could pose some pretty big issues on an island) or spay/neutering those who do have the temperament but aren't the one you want to keep. That gets pricey too. Most people aren't.


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