# Buying bluenose amstaff, but I think she is dark brown



## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

Edited to clarify that it's not the breeders who called the pup "bluenose", it was me ))) They said it was a blue puppy (as in coat), not a bluenose puppy.

TL;DR Should a blue puppy have a blue skin? And is a coat of blue puppies brown with a grey gloss or should it actually be dark grey (diluted black) with blue gloss?

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I want to buy a blue Staffordshire terrier puppy (at a much higher price because of the color) that's, as far as I understand, supposed to have dark grey/blueish coat color. Both parents have documents, participate in the shows and are multi champions.

The puppy has all the documents, obviously, and the owner says the docs indicate it as "blue" and she did look that way based on pictures. But when I came to see her, her coat actually is dark brown and her mom looks seal too (the pictures of both were grey/blueish color). The mom is exactly this color with hazel eyes: http://mrpitbull.com/Pitbull-Pictures-Bartender/Black-Nosed-Pitbull.JPG

The problem is that, while the coat of the puppy definitely looked dark brown, the skin was blue because they used some kind of shampoo "for blue coated dogs" to make it look more blue I guess. Her eyes are light grey.

She looks really really cute, but I think the owners are trying to double the price based on a lie that she is a blue puppy.

Should a blue puppy have a blue skin? And is a coat of blue puppies brown with a grey gloss or should it actually be dark grey (diluted black) with blue gloss?


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

Welcome to the forum. 
Glad you asked before you bought. This "breeder" doesn't sound knowledgeable or honest. The most obvious clue is that the term "bluenose" is not a bloodline. It is a term commonly used by back yard breeders to try and make the puppy sound like an exotic breed in order to charge more money.

Joe


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## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

The thing about "pro" breeders here is that they are all the same and there are very few of them (maybe 10) in the whole country.

I don't live in the US and we don't have that many pit bulls here so my choice is very very limited. Most pits here have mixed color coats and mostly a mix of fawn/red/bronze/white/black.

I guess my question is when I buy a puppy that has documents proving it's bluenose, can the coat be brownish and should the skin be blue lol? Because it looks like the breeders call "blue" anything that has a tint of grey in the coat  and charge double just for that.

These are the pictures of the pup and parents.

- Screenshot by Lightshot
- Screenshot by Lightshot
- Screenshot by Lightshot

But again, in real life mom's coat is very dark brown, not grey at all, not the slightest. I have never seen dad, but based on pics, I think he's brownish too. And the pup's coat seems brown too, but it's just 8 weeks old and they shampooed it with something that made the skin blue.


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

I would run far, far away from that breeder. There are way more important things to consider than colour when choosing a puppy, and any breeder that charges a higher price for a dilute dog is not an ethical breeder.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

My goodness, sometimes I need to read a story like this just to realize how bad it is out there, as far as this "color" thing is concerned. What is wrong with people? SMH. "Special shampoo"? Wow. To the OP, I'm sorry you're limited in what is available......but you should take all the advice given and not purchase from this so called breeder. Keep looking and asking questions.........and hopefully your search will be rewarded. I applaud your questioning this breeder's tactics....but now you know the real situation. Time to look elsewhere. I don't know what those breeders are charging in your locale, but maybe it's worth having the genuine article shipped to you. Good Luck!


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## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

Yeah, I know it looks like the breeder is trying to fool potential owners by dyeing the puppy's coat which is really strange because the dye WILL eventually wash off and the true color will show. It's a pretty normal behavior for the country, though, unfortunately. So I'm not surprised. 

But the mom is really nice. I spent almost an hour with the pup and mom, and she was as calm and well behaved as it gets. So I didn't feel there were any temperament issues I should be worried about (assuming the dog they showed me is indeed the pup's mom lol).

Shipping from the US is out of question because the prices here are considerably lower and I cannot afford paying $3,000+shipping for the dog. Actually, the only reason I'm even paying for a dog is because I REALLY want a pit and it has to be purebred. They are the sweetest dogs on earth!


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

3,000? You're looking at the wrong breeders here man. Price does not always reflect quality, remember that. 

Also, why are you looking at AmStaffs if you want a purebred Pit Bull? They're two separate breeds so that totally defeats the purpose... 

I think you need to go back to the drawing board and do more research before impulse buying a puppy.


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## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

I don't consider them to be two separate breeds, but I would much rather not get into this discussion. 

And there are no pit bulls in my country that are purebred, our kennel club doesn't recognize them, just like AKC. We only have amstaffs, and I could care less whether the paper says amstaff or pit bull as long as I can get some proof they are purebred and have a good bloodline of non-fighting dogs. I know Amstaffs are wider and pit bulls are leaner & more agile.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

luvpits said:


> I don't consider them to be two separate breeds, but I would much rather not get into this discussion.
> 
> And there are no pit bulls in my country that are purebred, our kennel club doesn't recognize them, just like AKC. We only have amstaffs, and I could care less whether the paper says amstaff or pit bull as long as I can get some proof they are purebred and have a good bloodline of non-fighting dogs. I know Amstaffs are wider and pit bulls are leaner & more agile.


" ....purebred and have a good bloodline of non-fighting dogs"? I'm not even sure what you are looking for now..........but I know it ain't an APBT.


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

luvpits,

Just out of curiosity, what country are you from?


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## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

jttar said:


> luvpits,
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what country are you from?


From Ukraine


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

My suggestion would be to go to some dog shows for the breed you are interested in. Get to know some of the handlers and owners and ask questions. Look at pedigrees and the dogs in the pedigrees to see if that is the kind of dog you want. Then make an educated decision as to which kennel/breeder you would trust to purchase a puppy from. 
And to answer your question about blue dogs. If the coat is a greyish color, then it is considered blue. My boy has red highlights. They get more noticeable when we spend a lot of time in the sun.
Also, if the nose is blue and not black or red, then it is a blue nose. But having a blue nose denotes nothing but the color of the dogs nose and does not refer to the dogs lines.


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## Benderdog (Jan 19, 2012)

There are some great Amstaffs available in Ukraine and closer surrounding countries. Don't buy from this 'breeder'.


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## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

yeah, well, we do have enough of them, but they are mostly red/fawn/white/black/brindle mix of colors. I guess I will try finding pure black or pure seal, these should be easier than blue.

P.S. The breeder never called her bluenose, they called her just blue (as in coat color). It was me who called her bluenose because I've seen so much info about this and I thought that blue coat color means bluenose lol.

P.P.S. Isn't she cute, though? Just because the breeder is trying to sell her at a higher price, doesn't really mean she's a bad puppy, no?


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## Indie (Sep 29, 2010)

first red flag: breeding a blue to a blue. Double dilute= health problems. 

second red flag: documentation that dogs are in fact "bluenose." What documentation is that, exactly? Breeders/owners send in the registration with the dog's color on it, but that is about it....

Third red flag: Charging more, simply for the color of the puppy.

The dogs look okay. I like the male, the bitch is a little sloppy for my taste, with excessive skin and bulk. Pup has a nice front.

Also.. the puppy is what is considered "blue." If you were looking for a smurf blue, then I'm sorry, but that does not occur naturally. The shampoo they have is not to dye the coat. It is to enhance the color of the coat. It can prevent fading and bleaching of darker coats, and other kinds can remove discoloration of white/light coats. 

You sound like you did a little research, but not much. 

ALL APBT's and Am Staffs can trace their roots back to fighting dogs. Some closer than others. APBTs and Am Staffs are and are not the same breed. Some dogs are dual registered as both breeds, so the lines are blurred. 

If you are looking to avoid a dog aggressive dog, then APBTs or any other terrier are not the breed for you.


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## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

tracing routes to fighting dogs 100 years ago is not the same as having parents that were excessively god-aggressive or used for this purpose. I know that APBT/Amstaffs are not dog-friendly and that's fine. But that doesn't mean I would buy a dog that is clearly extremely intolerant towards other dogs. Neither should they be, they should be somewhere in between and their dog-aggression should be manageable.

As far as shampoo, I later asked them about it and they explained the same thing you did. I guess I didn't know the pup's skin could be this blue :rofl: I expected it to be more greyish, not blue


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## Indie (Sep 29, 2010)

APBT owners should be prepared, however, to deal with the more extreme side of Dog Aggression, not just the little namby-pamby crap. You should be more than comfortable with the idea of:
A) No dog parks. EVER. No matter how nice and dog friendly your APBT appears to be.
B) A single dog home, or a life time of crate and rotate.
C) Not letting your APBT and another animal have alone time together
D) Paying extra $$ or spending extra time locating housing.
E) Exercising your APBT daily, to the point of near exhaustion. (Not just a walk or a short game of fetch)

If you can't deal with the thought of the above scenarios, please consider another breed. Not to sound harsh, just being real! 

Glad you cleared up the shampoo thing.


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## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

yeah, I'm ready for that, but how do I exhaust my dog every day without a treadmill? I'm really curious to hear what you do if you cannot let the dog play with others and you need to exercise him/her. I have no interest in cycling/skating, especially when it's cold outside. I was mostly thinking about fetching, jumps and similar activities. 

Because even if I run with my dog, that cannot possibly exhaust her. I will die before she does :rofl:


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## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

oh and by the way, I will not be buying this puppy. It turns out they lied about pedigree and the documents are from the worst kennel club which means the pedigree is fake.


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

luvpits said:


> yeah, I'm ready for that, but how do I exhaust my dog every day without a treadmill? I'm really curious to hear what you do if you cannot let the dog play with others and you need to exercise him/her. I have no interest in cycling/skating, especially when it's cold outside. I was mostly thinking about fetching, jumps and similar activities.
> 
> Because even if I run with my dog, that cannot possibly exhaust her. I will die before she does :rofl:


Thanks for the update luvpits. I think it a wise decision to look elsewhere for your pup as I explained in my first response to you.

Actually, you hit the nail on the head as fas as exhausting the dog. I to would drop before mine and for that reason the treadmill is a life saver. The treadmill can exhaust the dog and I don't know what I would do without one in the Winter. My girl Athena will walk with me on the treadmill and will sometimes just climb on and look back as if to say "let's go". I also use a flirt stick with her which consists of a long buggy whip and a rag tied at the end. She will chase that rag till I make her stop.

Joe


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## Indie (Sep 29, 2010)

Best bet would be a flirt pole and/or a spring pole. Sorry to hear they were lying. Which registry were they using, out of curiosity? 

I hope we've all given you some pointers to assist you in your search for another pup. Feel free to ask us for more help when you find someone else!


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## luvpits (May 15, 2016)

haha, thanks for the suggestions, I will consider buying a flirt pole. When the puppy is older I will enroll her into agility classes. So I think that should partially solve excess energy problem.

As far as registry, I honestly don't know. The paper document was issued by the no-name kennel club I've never heard of before. What I know for a fact, though, is that the breeder told me the pup's dad was an amstaff from the US. But when I later googled the picture of the dad, turned out it was a local dog that has all the FCI paperwork. Which means that her dad is most likely some other dog.

She also told me that because American AKC was not a recognizable club in Ukraine, she issued the documents from a different club that recognizes american pedigree :rofl::rofl:

P.S. Just like in the US, in Ukraine we have KSU (AKC equivalent for amstaffs) and KCU (UKC equivalent for APBT). KSU docs are recognized by FCI, KCU docs are recognized by UCI. 

But based on local APBTs with KCU docs that I have seen, most of them are clearly not pure bred so I have a very strong feeling KCU documents can be bought at a relatively low price and I don't trust these documents. All the other clubs sell documents for pennies, and this pup had documents from one of these. 

She was a really really nice dog and her mom (assuming she was indeed her mom) was a very sweet dog. But I just didn't think it was a good idea to buy her, especially considering a price tag.


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## Oneofakind77 (Jan 18, 2019)

luvpits said:


> I don't consider them to be two separate breeds, but I would much rather not get into this discussion.
> 
> And there are no pit bulls in my country that are purebred, our kennel club doesn't recognize them, just like AKC. We only have amstaffs, and I could care less whether the paper says amstaff or pit bull as long as I can get some proof they are purebred and have a good bloodline of non-fighting dogs. I know Amstaffs are wider and pit bulls are leaner & more agile.


ALL AmStaffs are Pitbulls. Not ALL Pitbulls are AmStaffs.

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