# Buying an APBT! NEED HELP!



## ABPT Steve (Dec 30, 2009)

OK, i think i should start by saying i would like to buy from a reputable breeder and not rescue a dog, I am fully aware that there is an abundance of good dogs in shelters, but i prefer not to go that route!

I'm not looking to buy overnight as i feel that i have a lot more research to do, however this is an option! I would ideally like to buy my dog anywhere from 6months - 1year from now! Ok here are some noob questions & info about me...

I am a very athletic guy, and i have always loved the APBT, i felt as if it would be a great dog for me. I do not know why, but i am really not interested in any other kind of dog, i think the APBT just set my standards too high! Personally i love their beautiful looks and athletic performance, then add that to their intelligence and i feel like you have the perfect dog... here are my questions!

1) What are some good well known breeders anywhere in the USA? I live in NJ, but i have no problem going anywhere in america to purchase my dog! So far i picked up on colby and caragan. (however im not willing to "co own" *MY* dog.)

2) what are some athletic Pedigrees/Bloodlines That you guys are familiar with or that you prefer! Im looking for an APBT, *NOT a bully*... also where would i be able to purchase this pedigree? (i do like bullies, just not what i am looking to purchase at this time.)

3) can you guys recommend any great MUST READ books on pitbulls, or maybe any pitbull magazines that are well known or that you guys subscribe to?

Those are pretty much my questions for now! I would like to buy a male, i would not be getting him neutered, so i would need a breeder that was okay with that, its not that i plan on breeding the dog, but i like the option to know that if i ever did want him to have puppies he would be able to! The dog must be UKC/ADBA registered. Im looking only for true original american pitbull terriers! Im also interested in weight pull, so any good books or info on how i can get into that would also be helpful!

THANKS FOR ANY HELP GUYS!


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## Aidan (Nov 3, 2009)

Its to late for me to respond to much in depth just wanted to say you sound like you are on the right path and you will get great answers here and learn a lot. Look foward to helping ya out tomorrow.

edit. sorry didn't catch your talk about maybe wanting to breed. a lot of us on gopitbull don't agree with just anyone breeding, it should really be left up to the pros already doing it.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

ABPT Steve said:


> OK, i think i should start by saying i would like to buy from a reputable breeder and not rescue a dog, I am fully aware that there is an abundance of good dogs in shelters, but i prefer not to go that route!
> 
> I'm not looking to buy overnight as i feel that i have a lot more research to do, however this is an option! I would ideally like to buy my dog anywhere from 6months - 1year from now! Ok here are some noob questions & info about me...
> 
> ...


There's nothing in jersey unless you know people I heard there are a few gamedog kennels but they won't sell you a dog if they don't know you. If you know there is a huge abundance of homeless dogs in the shelters and you aren't a proffessional breeder why consider adding more homeless puppies to the world in the future. If I was you I'd get a caragan dog if I had the money for it. Breeding is not as easy as letting two dogs mate in a backyard, there is lots of things that need to be considered plus health risks and expensive vet bills. This is why you leave the breeding to the pros. There was a kennel called glorious kennels or something that normally breeds bully dogs however last year they had a colby breeeding, I am not sure if it was legit but you could def shooot him a question. As far as neutering the dog I am anti early neutering so we can agree on that note.


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

A reputable breeder will have a spay/neuter contract.........
Man I see alot of pics of dogs on here with big swinging sacks. Sorry...but I am totally for spaying and neuturing. Visit your local shelter and you will know why!


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

Hello and welcome to the forum. What part of NJ are you in?

OK because I do breed occasionally I look at posts like this from a slightly different perspective than those who do not breed. So I will give you some insight.

I will tell you upfront now that most "reputable" breeders will not place an animal outright unless they know the person or the dog is under a very strict contract if it is not co-owned. This is for the protection of the pup and also all parties involved.

Pups that are already deemed as not show/working quality are always sold under spay/neuter contracts.

Be prepared to get a a ton of questions from the breeders you talk to if they are truly reputable they will be screening you as much as you are screening them LOL.

Are you willing to show, work and health test your dog if he ends up to be breeding quality before even considering a mating... that will be something that will make a huge difference to how most breeders will feel about you wanting the dog intact.

Have you had experience with this breed before? If not what are you willing to do to gain more experience?

AS for looking into weight pull there is a club in UKC CT and also an ADBA one in South NJ you can look into when you are ready for that. Also there is a group that gets together at Bear MT sometimes and other places not to far away to work dogs.

I think it is good that you are starting to research ahead of time. It is too bad more people don't do that.

Be prepared also to be put on a waiting list for certain breeders, if you really want a pup. Often lists are made of potential owners quite awhile before pups are produced.

Check out the training section for info on weight pull and to post questions on it.

Also go to:
Encyclopedia of the American Pit Bull Terrier : HomePage
for training info

I hope that helps


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Patch-O-Pits said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum. What part of NJ are you in?
> 
> OK because I do breed occasionally I look at posts like this from a slightly different perspective than those who do not breed. So I will give you some insight.
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

ABPT Steve said:


> OK, i think i should start by saying i would like to buy from a reputable breeder and not rescue a dog, I am fully aware that there is an abundance of good dogs in shelters, but i prefer not to go that route!
> 
> I'm not looking to buy overnight as i feel that i have a lot more research to do, however this is an option! I would ideally like to buy my dog anywhere from 6months - 1year from now! Ok here are some noob questions & info about me...
> 
> ...


Let me start you off... The best thing you can do to look for a reputable breeder is heading to shows. You want weight pull? Hit some wp events and talk to the handlers there. The more you frequent the events and more you meet and get aquainted with people, the more likely you are to find someone who can point you in the right direction. Not knocking on anyone AT ALL, but UKC's weight pull is not as competitive as the ADBA, IWPA, APA, or NKC. And normally heavier boned dogs will fill the UKC events. If you want something leaner, more performance bred, you will probably end up happier attending ADBA shows.

SECOND. There's nothing wrong with not getting a puppy/dog from the shelter. Yes every rescue helps the situation, but if it's not what you're looking for, it's not what you're looking for. If you want to work your dog, and show in conformation, then you should do some research about what bloodlines carry the traits you like. Buying from a reputable breeder at this point is crucial, try to find someone who lives and breathes dogs, not breeds for the sake of money or putting their "name" out there. Look for titled dogs from performance kennels, preferably ones who title in multiple venues.

Keeping a dog intact is a personal preference, but it should never be done just because you want your dog to "have puppies someday" because that mentality will get you nowhere fast without years of handling, competing, knowledge of bloodlines and breeding. You'll just be another guy with an accidental litter, or another back yard breeder filling up shelters. Not trying to sound rude, but that reason for keeping a male intact is some plain BS. No offense. If you wish to show your dog in conformation, first make sure that the parents are within the standard of the registeries they are registered with and then get the dog, keeping him intact because that even requires it. But if you wish to do nothing more than to WORK your dog, you can do so with IWPA, APA, (with or without papers) and the ADBA and UKC (with limited registration). You don't need to have an intact dog to work them.

IMO you will not see many true Colby dogs. And if you could find one, most people will not just sell to anyone, and it's for a good reason. Scatterbred dogs are sold all the time, the breeders boasting about certain bloodlines, when in reality theyre dilluted by mixing in so many other traits from different bloodlines. Then you have no consistency and you lose a lot of what the original bloodlines were all about. When looking for breeders, you want to see TIGHT breedings in pedigrees. That means the genepools were kept small, because A) the breeder knew what traits and characteristics they were wanting to strengthen, and B) when an outcross was bred, it was to add another desired trait, usually from another tightly bred dog. Line breeding, NOT INBREEDING, when done responsibly is a good way to establish consistency and keep producing dogs with similar appearance, strength, and temperament. Avoid anyone who tries to sell you game X bully bloodlines, or someone who breeds for one particular color, especially blue on blue breedings, as blue dogs can carry more health problems, and to some their background is questionable.

COOWNS. I own a co-own puppy. There is NOTHING wrong with it, in fact it's a bit of relief to know that if one day I am not financially stable enough to care for my dog, I can revert ownership back to the person that bred her. That to me, ensures that she will not go to a shelter, she will be taken care of and loved plenty, and that the breeder is looking out for both himself and the buyer, but MOST IMPORTANTLY for the well being of the dog. Most co own contracts protect breeding rights because they do not want the bloodlines to be "contaminated" or the dogs to be bred with faults, etc. Also, co-owns normally don't mean that your dog will go back for breeding, and a lot of kennels will bring their bitch to YOUR dog to match them up. It's rarely a matter of you parting with your male while they go to a stud. However that happens, it's normally the other way around. I like the peace of mind I get with a contract, and honestly when people specifically want a dog they don't have to co-own, they don't understand the benefit and the reasoning behind it, or in some cases don't want to have to follow certain conditions, most concerning BREEDING.

As far as books go, there are many books. I own the Pitbull Bible by California Jack, and there are books by Stratton, Colby and others that you can purchase online, or find others who are willing to part with them. This is something that might require some time, but reading from different dogmen or authers will give you more insight from different perspectives, and a lot of tips about home health care (for issues that don't require vet visits), keep and nutrition.

As far as weightpulling goes there are quite a few people on this board who have WP dogs, I am in the process of training with my oldest pup, so I am NEW to the sport. However you can find some tips in the training section, some real concrete does and dont's and I personally like some of the information available on weight pull dog supersite, breed information, working dogs, equipment, harness, pictures, how to make a drag sled or flirt pole, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog Alaskan Malamute American Bulldog American Eskimo American Pit Bull Terrier American Staffor.

Sorry to talk your ear off, but your post was filled with questions and statements that I wanted to address. Hope it helped some.


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## BlAzEd (Feb 25, 2009)

you might want to look into visectamine, the dog will still have all the testosterone flowing as if it was intact, that way it wont affect weight pulling or other sports. BUT you wont be able to have pups, i think thats the best idea anyways. my dog has a visectamine.


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## Bethb2007 (Jul 5, 2009)

Hi there,
You may want to try Pit Island kennel of N.Y. (845-532-1570). They have real performance pit bulls, and a good record. They run a lot of Boomer/tants lines, and the dogs are bred well. Also, there used to be a big ADBA club in NJ. They had huge shows, so if you could contact a few club members, maybe they could help you.
For gamebred dogs, we like the old Eli/Redboy dogs. For pure pit lines, not so hardcore, old Hemphill wilder lines. 
As far as books, I like the Richard Stratton ones, especially for people new to the breed. One of our favorite books in by Ed/Chris Faron "Complete Gamedog". As far as magazines, there really are not to many. Right now we subscribe to the ADBA Gazette, and UKC Bloodlines(very lame). We also a had script to FullyBully magazine and really liked that. 
I also know some people who got some dogs from WhiteOak Biter kennels(870-545-3692) and are happy with them. Nice looking and acting line bred Boudreaux dogs.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

If you want a dog from a reputable breeder, most of the time you will have to submit to a co-own or a contract. All of mine are on co-owns. If you do it with the right person, it doesn't impact much. But yes, if you get a dog with balls intact, that breeder is going to want to know that you have more of a plan than "well, maybe I might want to breed my dog someday, keep options open, etc..." I mean heck, if you're going through the trouble of getting a breeder dog, go through the trouble of also getting a show-quality dog and then show it! Then if you decide on your "options" later, you might have a reason to actually breed the dog. 

My suggestion is to go to some shows. Go to both UKC and ADBA shows. (A dog with registration in the one can easily get the other.) See what is out there and talk to people. Some breeders are very secretive and don't place dogs outside their circle, but that doesn't mean they can't point you in the right direction.


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## Howardsperformancek9 (Feb 11, 2009)

*I know this is going to get some fingers flying, but*......
Just because a person buys a dog on a co-ownership or on an extended contract does not mean they are getting A BETTER DOG. Most people who have "real"gamebred dogs don't do contracts, and only co-own with friends. You can buy some of the best bred dogs in the USA free and clear. I myself do not like the average contract, as I am a performance person, and if a dog can not work for me I want to find it a pet home fast. I do not want to wait until they can take it back or send it to be evaluated.

I personally think, if you do your homework and are patient you can find a very nice gamedog or show dog for around 500-1000, without a 10 page contract or having to promise them your first born child.


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## BlAzEd (Feb 25, 2009)

what exactly is co-owning and how are these contracts?


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## ABPT Steve (Dec 30, 2009)

Thank all of you guys for the responses! I really appreciate the time you are taking to help me in my search for a great dog! It looks like i need to start getting to some events! Can anyone point me in the right direction on bloodline info, i'm looking for a good place to start doing research on different bloodlines/pedigrees!


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

ABPT Steve said:


> Thank all of you guys for the responses! I really appreciate the time you are taking to help me in my search for a great dog! It looks like i need to start getting to some events! Can anyone point me in the right direction on bloodline info, i'm looking for a good place to start doing research on different bloodlines/pedigrees!


 That really depends on your personal preferences.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Blazed, a co-own is where the breeder's name stays on the papers with your own. What stipulations are included in the contract varies on who is involved. Some breeders require breed-backs or breeding rights on the dog later. Some require that the person buying the dog show it in a minimum amont of shows per year while it is intact. The good ones require that the puppy go back to the breeder if the new owner is unable to keep it. I would hope that most would outline a minimum standard of care for the dog.

Howard, my only disagreement with your statement is you finding the dog another home yourself if it doesn't work out for you. Were I the breeder of said dog, I would want it back so I could figure out the best placement for it. If the dog was worth obtaining in the first place, its worth hanging on to for a few days while you work out how to send it back to the breeder. JMO.


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## ABPT Steve (Dec 30, 2009)

Patch-O-Pits said:


> That really depends on your personal preferences.


My main preference is energy, i just want an active dog that is full of life! My friend has two pitbulls, and they are the two laziest dogs in the world! One of them is overweight, and the other one is about a year and a half old so he hasnt had time to add much weight, but i see him getting fat in the future! They are the two nicest/friendliest dogs you would ever meet and they have had obedience training, they are good with people and other dogs! I believe the dogs are lazy because they just sit around all day and since thats what they are used to, thats what they love to do! they dont even go on walks, he has a big back yard and they dont even run around it. They are true couch potatoes, so im looking for the opposite!


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

ABPT Steve said:


> My main preference is energy, i just want an active dog that is full of life! My friend has two pitbulls, and they are the two laziest dogs in the world! One of them is overweight, and the other one is about a year and a half old so he hasnt had time to add much weight, but i see him getting fat in the future! They are the two nicest/friendliest dogs you would ever meet and they have had obedience training, they are good with people and other dogs! I believe the dogs are lazy because they just sit around all day and since thats what they are used to, thats what they love to do! they dont even go on walks, he has a big back yard and they dont even run around it. They are true couch potatoes, so im looking for the opposite!


 careful; what you wish for. LOL Mine are all high energy , it is a lot of work. LOL. Just make sure you are READY.


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## suncity red coats (Jun 8, 2009)

ABPT Steve said:


> Thank all of you guys for the responses! I really appreciate the time you are taking to help me in my search for a great dog! It looks like i need to start getting to some events! Can anyone point me in the right direction on bloodline info, i'm looking for a good place to start doing research on different bloodlines/pedigrees!


i personally wouldnt recommend anything outside of the ADBA standard or registry. i prefer the older bloodlines bred by floyd boudreaux, maurice carver, earl tudor, bert clouse, john colby, bob wallace, bob hemphill, and many others. these dogmen are well respected in the apbt world as they laid the foundation for the apbt of today. although not every bloodline or so called apbt is a pure form of the dogs bred by these famous dogmen as many question what is real or not. i think you would gain a better understanding of the breed and its origins by starting from the beginning and working your way up and see how ignorance has changed the breed. then when it comes to purchasing a dog a bloodline isnt the only thing that matters. when choosing a breeder you must be well aware of the quality and health of his dogs aswell as the breedings in his program. if you buy from a real dogman breeding a true form of apbt you should be happy.


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

CallieBum73 said:


> Sorry...but I am totally for spaying and neuturing. Visit your local shelter and you will know why!


how do you feel about reputable breeders who are experienced in canine genetics and education and are determined to produce APBTs of exceptional quality to save a breed in danger of being extinct?

Spaying and neutering is great advice for most dogs, but if all APBTs were payed or neutered, the breed will be extinct in 15 years.

Not every breeder is a back yard breeder. 
Some kennels do just as important work , in my opinion, as do shelters.

APBT STEVE:
A shelter dog isn't for anyone. I have two rescues myself, as for my next dog ( in the far future) I will have done the research, (as you sees to be doing), and find an ethical knowledgeable breeder, and purchase an exceptional dog.

There are vendors on this site who have first class APBTs you would be proud to own, look into them to see if they are right for you. ( i do not know any of them personally) but they have fine dogs and contribute to the rescues of APBTs as well as support a site ( this one) that is all about helping the breed.

I have no experience in finding a great APBT, so I will follow this thread closely as well.
Good luck in your search, take the time to find whats right for you and be a great pack leader. We're all here for you !

*AW man!!! did I just respond to someone who isnt even able to see this thread anymore, just realized how old this thread is, im a dum dum.*


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## red heat (Dec 6, 2009)

I Agree CO-OWNING is bull- hocky for the most part... You should check out FlameTreeKennels.net located in Philli... He has real OFRN dog... Every one claims to have them but REAL ones are few and fare between..... Good luck with your quest and keep doing your homework..


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