# New Dog on the Block. (First Post)



## desertpits (Jul 17, 2012)

Hello everyone, 
This is my first post here and I just wanted to show some of my pitties here.
Check out my two males


































I love em. The second one is a tiny pocket sized guy. He's a very interesting digger to say the least. He'll dig out of one kennel just to dig into another one. Very adventurous.


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## MamaTank (Jun 12, 2011)

Welcome to the forum  Nice Bullies you have there!


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## Blueindian (May 10, 2012)

Welcome to GP!! Really nice tri male u got there!


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

I wouldn't be so quick to call them bullies.
Welcome, 
The bottom dog looks like my old dog Rex spit him out of his mouth.
Rex personality was the best in any pit I've had.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

william williamson said:


> I wouldn't be so quick to call them bullies.
> Welcome,
> The bottom dog looks like my old dog Rex spit him out of his mouth.
> Rex personality was the best in any pit I've had.


They are Razors Edge WW 

Welcome to the forum. Sorry but your kennel link is removed. We do not allow un authorized breeders to post their sites here. I encourage you to browse the forum. We are very big on proper and responsible breeding.

Your boys are nice looking dogs.


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

Welcome to GP


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

American_Pit13 said:


> They are Razors Edge WW
> 
> Welcome to the forum. Sorry but your kennel link is removed. We do not allow un authorized breeders to post their sites here. I encourage you to browse the forum. We are very big on proper and responsible breeding.
> 
> Your boys are nice looking dogs.


I didn't know either way. The piebald liver is EXACTLY an image of my old dog. And back then, if we called it pit, it was pit.
The other dog, I saw one very close in size and color brought from Canada for A show and go. Their we're some boys up that way that had some dynamite small dogs and brought the big dog along for prospect. We obliged and he ate through our dog. Then again, their were staffs that were still gamed. Few and far between, yet still worthy of the wash down.
The dogs we had back then,,, no bully would stand the test. I doubt they could stand A 4-6 week keep.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

Welcome to GP! Ur dogs are handsome


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

The top dog looks bully, but it appears to have a mask, which old pit dogs never had.
Masks began appearing in the dogs of Jake Wilder, who admitted crossing dogs in his yard
to Red Bone Coonhounds, to keep the red in his dogs. 
Back in the 80's they began popping up. 
The Wilder crowd/fans deny it, but Jake admitted it to many people.

The bottom dog looks good. Too much white for OFRN standards,
but definitely has some in it.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

Goemon said:


> The bottom dog looks good. Too much white for OFRN standards, but definitely has some in it.


Is that what's in that dogs ped? Im pretty sure u can't tell bloodlines from just lookin at a dog.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Yep, no way of knowing what is in the dog just by looking at it!!! just like we always tell people who ask "what breed of pit is this?" or "can you tell if my dog is full pit." Without a ped there is no way of knowing.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Odin's_BlueDragon said:


> Is that what's in that dogs ped? Im pretty sure u can't tell bloodlines from just lookin at a dog.


OFRN is a STRAIN, not a bloodline. 
It exists in all modern pit dogs, traditional bloodlines, even in the black nose dogs.
The OFRN dogs were crossed to other dogs for their legendary gameness.
Which is why black nose dogs can throw a red nosed pup now and then.

And unless he puts a ped up, there is no bloodline.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

Goemon said:


> OFRN is a STRAIN, not a bloodline.
> It exists in all modern pit dogs, traditional bloodlines, even in the black nose dogs.
> The OFRN dogs were crossed to other dogs for their legendary gameness.
> Which is why black nose dogs can throw a red nosed pup now and then.
> ...


U have something ginetics wise that shows the differnce between a strain and a bloodline?


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

::::COACH:::: said:


> Yep, no way of knowing what is in the dog just by looking at it!!! just like we always tell people who ask "what breed of pit is this?" or "can you tell if my dog is full pit." Without a ped there is no way of knowing.


There is no way to tell any bloodline by looking.
But one thing is clear!
The OFRN was crossed to many dogs and that trait appears.
If no OFRN dog is ever in a dogs ped, no red nose dog will ever pop up.
I have seen two BN dogs throw red pups...
Especially from Maurice Carver! Tudor's Dibo was heavy OFRN blood, with black nose. 
But he threw red nose pups. He was bred alot for the Corvino blood in him.

And for Amateur Hour 101: THE OFRN DOGS ARE A STRAIN, NOT A BLOODLINE.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Odin's_BlueDragon said:


> U have something ginetics wise that shows the differnce between a strain and a bloodline?


Hemphill, Corcaran, Shipley, Corvino, Feeley, all bloodlines, all OFRN strains.
This STRAIN came from crossing the Irish fighting dogs, the Old Family Reds, with black nose fighting dogs.
The red coats, noses, and nails were retained. 
Back then it was best to best. The Old Family Reds were able to enhance the combat skills of any dog they were crossed to.
The genetics of it is that OFRN dogs still carry the blood in them.
Bloodlines were distinguised by the preferences of the various breeders,
who preserved these red nose dogs.
The OFRN Strain is a strain of ApBT. They are preserved to this day within the STRAIN.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

Goemon said:


> Hemphill, Corcaran, Shipley, Corvino, Feeley, all bloodlines, all OFRN strains.
> This STRAIN came from crossing the Irish fighting dogs, the Old Family Reds, with black nose fighting dogs.
> The red coats, noses, and nails were retained.
> Back then it was best to best. The Old Family Reds were able to enhance the combat skills of any dog they were crossed to.
> ...


 By definition though a strain is genetically uniform. Like a plant, flu, or labrats which I believe are all clones. Bloodline redirects to heredity which is definded as the process of aquiring genetics traits from ones ancestors. So for OFRN to be a strain the dogs would have to be genetically the same, which do to breeding and studding out and what not the genetic make up changes and the traits are passed down via heredity aka bloodlines.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

I love learning things. http://www.gopitbull.com/history/19704-old-family-reds-history.html so apparently Old Family Reds can be called a strain but my original comment still stands. Without us seeing a ped we can't tell how much if any of this strain is in such said dog. Just cuz it has a red nose doesn't not make it an OFR. Also from what I can tell the strain is getting to be uncommon as well. This article makes me wonder what other strains there are? I might have to start a new thread when I get more on this.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

The OFRN is most certainly a strain. One of the most influential strains in history and a segment of the Old Family Reds. There is no debating this...resistance is futile LOL!!! Goemon is 100 % correct and I suspect that he, as do I, lays his hands on this strain daily.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

The OFRN is still alive and well...just have to know where to look and wade thru the imposters


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

Saint Francis said:


> The OFRN is most certainly a strain. One of the most influential strains in history and a segment of the Old Family Reds. There is no debating this...resistance is futile LOL!!! Goemon is 100 % correct and I suspect that he, as do I, lays his hands on this strain daily.


But u didn't touch my other points? What's the difference between strain and bloodline by definition? What other strains are there? Red nose does not equal the OFR strain, correct?


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Odin's_BlueDragon said:


> I love learning things. http://www.gopitbull.com/history/19704-old-family-reds-history.html so apparently Old Family Reds can be called a strain but my original comment still stands. Without us seeing a ped we can't tell how much if any of this strain is in such said dog. Just cuz it has a red nose doesn't not make it an OFR. Also from what I can tell the strain is getting to be uncommon as well. This article makes me wonder what other strains there are? I might have to start a new thread when I get more on this.


The Old Family Reds were a FIGHTING BREED imported from Ireland.
These dogs are one of the foundation breeds of the ApBT, and the foundation of the OFRN strain. 
Old Family Reds have been EXTINCT for over 100 years. Anyone claiming to have one is FOS.
All the traditional Old Family Red Nose bloodlines are a part of this strain. 
Any red nose dog must have 25% of the traditional blood to be considered OFRN. And it must have a VALID Pedigree. 
The fact that they are a strain separates them from other ApBT's. 
The "bloodlines" are the dogs down from various breeders of the STRAIN. 
The mark of this strain is the variations of red, with or without white, amber eyes and red nails.
No black or other color is allowed. 
This is where the genetics comes to play. Two reds will always throw reds.
A red and a black nose will be a divided litter among the pups if crossed, 
but take the reds of this and breed to another red, although half black nose, 
the pups will be red. Make sense? That is why it is called a strain.
They carry the red genes and always produce red when bred together.

Okay, to the OP, sorry for invading your thread! I will make another reply,
and if anyone wants to carry further, please start another thread. I will not 
invade this one on this subject.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Saint Francis said:


> The OFRN is most certainly a strain. One of the most influential strains in history and a segment of the Old Family Reds. There is no debating this...resistance is futile LOL!!! Goemon is 100 % correct and I suspect that he, as do I, lays his hands on this strain daily.


You're suspicions are correct. LOL. A couple of my dogs look similar to your avatar dog. 
And you are correct, there is no debating this.

And the OFRN strain is alive and well. Most often not available to the public.
And for good reason. The general public always seems to mess stuff up, 
and tries to fix what isn't broken. 
Also, the quality OFRN dog is much more than many can handle.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

welcome! Love the look of your first pup. and very funny about your digging its way out just to dig into another kennel.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Goemon said:


> You're suspicions are correct. LOL. A couple of my dogs look similar to your avatar dog.
> And you are correct, there is no debating this.
> 
> And the OFRN strain is alive and well. Most often not available to the public.
> ...


I agree Goemon. My avatar is my bulldog Badger. I also have another male named Rooster. Both can be STRAINS in the butt


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I think I understand  What you say makes sense.... But I don't know that to say his dog is a strain of OFRN is really correct? What if it had Dogue de Bordeaux in it somewhere, therefore making its nose red? Couldn't this happen??

I LOVE OFRN!! I will have one some day.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

::::COACH:::: said:


> I think I understand  What you say makes sense.... But I don't know that to say his dog is a strain of OFRN is really correct? What if it had Dogue de Bordeaux in it somewhere, therefore making its nose red? Couldn't this happen??
> 
> I LOVE OFRN!! I will have one some day.


I was only saying the male dog on the bottom must have a small portion of the strain in him.
You are correct....but my assumption is he is a bulldog....
Like I stated elsewhere, Jake Wilder crossed his dogs with Red Bone Coonhounds.
He admitted it! To many sources with no reason to lie. 
I never insult a bloodline by name unless mine are insulted.
If they are, I'm ready to send a PM to the insulter, to let them PROVE what they say.
If I didn't think I had the best dogs, I'd get rid of them and go get the best!

Just remember, Coach, take your time in searching for an OFRN. 
And never trust a person who makes their living breeding dogs.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Yes, I have been looking for a pup for a while now  good things come to those who wait.


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## desertpits (Jul 17, 2012)

I am curious how you guys can fully rule out the tri color pattern as not being from a pit bull since the originations were from terriers who have had tri color patterns all through history. Also bull dogs had tri color patterns in the early days








Look at the three on the left. Baiting dogs wasn't made illegal until 1835 so The pit bulls had to have started coming around between then and late 1800s early 1900s. So technically it could be possible to get a tri color out of a pit bull. One would, initially, just have to be lucky enough and when the luck hit they would have to be even luckier to find a mate or inbreed with all the litter mates and hope you don't get a tri color that is a bit off his knocker.
I am not an extreme historian expert at all in pit bulls so please have at it but looking at the origination of the dogs we can logically deduce that it could be possible for a tri color to pop out however rare it may be. Also in Stratton book he says that blue colored pits where usually killed and not desired. So, i would assume it was even worse for pits to come out looking like doberman pinchers and rottweilers.
Anyways, I like the way the tri colors look and I like mini pocket pits as well (not chubby, they still have to run with me). By the way what about the C3 dog registration? Anyone think they are good?


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## desertpits (Jul 17, 2012)

Also if a wolf could be turned into a chihuahua i have hope for tri colored pits. lol


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## MamaTank (Jun 12, 2011)

I actually said Bully because I saw this post before the site was removed from the OP, and looked at the peds... 
Also... there is no such thing as a "mini pocket pit". There are such things as the Pocket class of American Bully.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

what MamaTank said. no one said bully because hes tri colored, bully is determined by bloodline.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

MamaTank said:


> I actually said Bully because I saw this post before the site was removed from the OP, and looked at the peds...
> Also... there is no such thing as a "mini pocket pit". There are such things as the Pocket class of American Bully.


:goodpost:

The dogs that had info were American Bullies. Same as MamaTank I looked at the site. I am not guessing what the OP has I am going off what his site said the bloodlines were.


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