# possible mange?



## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

So today I took Zorro to the vet. Tomorrow he turns 16 weeks and they gave him his last booster and his rabies shot. I have been noticing a small area on his cheek bone behind the eye was losing hair. Also on one of his legs I noticed a small bald spot.

The vet told me to buy tripleantibiotics at the local pharmacists and to apply to him twice a week. If it didn't get any better to take him in for a scrape.

I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and buy nu-stock cream and treat it with that instead of the tripleantibiotics.

What do you guys think?


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

I would, couldn't hurt and you could stop it before it generalizes

Any pics?


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## scratchin dog (May 7, 2010)

It depends on what it is. If its an allergy or mange then antibiotics arent really going to do anything to solve the problem. Although it will help prevent a secondary bacterial infection if the dog is scratching a lot. Is it itchy? Is there redness along with the hair loss? It would probably be a good idea to get the skin scrape so you can make the right choice in your course of action. If its mange then get the NuStock and a bottle of Ivermectin 1% so you can start treatment right away. 

The general dose of 1% Ivermectin is 1/10th of ml, per 10 lb of bodyweight, once a month for heartworm prevention.

The specific dosage of 1% ivermectin to treat red mange is 3/10 of a ml, per 10 lb of bodyweight, ORALLY AND DAILY, until improvement is seen.

You need to make sure it's 1% Ivermectin, only, not more (and NOT Ivomec-Plus). 

If its an allergy you need to look at the environment or the food the dog is eating. Generally this is the age where mange starts to show up. The pups immune system is not strong enough to keep the mites in check so its a possibility it is red mange.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Aireal said:


> I would, couldn't hurt and you could stop it before it generalizes
> 
> Any pics?


Ill try to get some up. I'm on my phone.



scratchin dog said:


> It depends on what it is. If its an allergy or mange then antibiotics arent really going to do anything to solve the problem. Although it will help prevent a secondary bacterial infection if the dog is scratching a lot. Is it itchy? Is there redness along with the hair loss? It would probably be a good idea to get the skin scrape so you can make the right choice in your course of action. If its mange then get the NuStock and a bottle of Ivermectin 1% so you can start treatment right away.
> 
> The general dose of 1% Ivermectin is 1/10th of ml, per 10 lb of bodyweight, once a month for heartworm prevention.
> 
> ...


Thanks. There is some redness where the hair is missing. He hasn't scratched it too much. Maybe twice in the last 2 weeks. I do notice that he chases his tail a lot...wondering if that has anything to do with it.

He is currently on heartguard and is eating Orijen puppy.

I had first noticed the spot start to develope on his face a couple of weeks ago and I can say that is has got worst since then with out any treatment. Do you think it is more economicl to buy the nu-stock and 1%ivermectin online as opposed to buying it at a vet? I just don't want to waste anytime.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

I held it up against the light to get a better shot









Sorry if the pic is HUGE...I'm on my phone.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

Face and feet alot of times equal demo, id try the nu stock worst that would happen is it doesn't work, just be careful not to get it in his eyes


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Aireal said:


> Face and feet alot of times equal demo, id try the nu stock worst that would happen is it doesn't work, just be careful not to get it in his eyes


I'm going to take your advice and go to the feed store on Monday and get a bottle.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

Let us know how it goes


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Don't use any invermectin until you know what you are dealing with. Try nustock and some benadryl for now if he is itchy. Get the skin scrape before you start treating him so you know what you are dealing with. Demo starts around the eyes, ears, and mouth so it could be mange. Before it gets worse I would get the skin scrape. Also, seeing as how he was extra young when you got him his immune system could be compromised and you should start giving him immune building supplements. Vaccinations also compromise the immune system. I have ordered Bella's supplements from here.....

The Wholistic Pet: Wholistic Pet Organics Health Care Supplements


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

I just had my cousin look at my dog. He was a vet in Cuba. He told me Ivomec is the way to go...hands down. 

a couple of days ago zorro threw up and had diarreah for about 24hours. I had him on pedialyte to keep from dehydrating...but I didn't think much about it, other than maybe he ate something that he shouldn't have outside.

Now I'm starting to think that he might still have worms. 

My vet only did a fecal exam at 6 weeks when I had first brought him in. After that, they gave him a couple more de-wormers. But they never did another fecal.


I really have a hard time trusting vets that I don't personally know :/


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Something else I might add.

When my cousin came over to my house...zorro in his playful self was all excited and happy like he always is when he meets people. I usually tell him to relax after about 2 or 3 minutes of excitement. This time I let him go all out as my cousin was just playing with him and petting him.

I noticed my dog flared in hives and bumps and began to itch. Mostly around the mouth was red and swollen. All over his body were the bumps and some hot spots. 

I gave him some benadryl and let him relax. He is a little better now but I thought that was weird. That has to be demodex I would imagine.

You guys input is always appreciated


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

Actually hives like that are more allergic reaction sounding, I would keep ip with the benadryl every 8 hrs for awhile till his skin completely calms down


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Honestly I would talk to Lisa aka performanceknls or a real vet before you start poisoning your pup everyday with ivermectin. That stuff can do alot to there bodies so I would do your own research on it before you assume mange. And mange can mimic allergies as well. If he only has two spots nu stock might work well for him. The longer you wait to treat him the worse its going to get. I didn't take any meds from my vet other than antibiotics for a skin infection but I had a skin scraping done for peace of mind. Also, mange isn't going to make him sick with vomiting and loose stool so he could have even more going on than you think.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks guys. I will keep you updated as we go. This morning he was back to normal so I'm not sure what he was allergic to??? Couple things I'm thinking that were out of the norm for him...

1. The rabies shot
2. The mixture of the booster with the rabies shot
3. A cheeto he picked off the floor? Lol
4. The tripleantibiotics
5. Some foam that he ate when he tore his pillow to shreds this morning

He obviously still has the mangie spots thou.

An observation... 

He really doesn't scratch the spots that often but he does chase his tail a lot. I don't see any hair missing from his tail so I'm wondering if that could be worms.

My vet is closed today so I'm just brain storming


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

scratchin dog said:


> It depends on what it is. If its an allergy or mange then antibiotics arent really going to do anything to solve the problem. Although it will help prevent a secondary bacterial infection if the dog is scratching a lot. Is it itchy? Is there redness along with the hair loss? It would probably be a good idea to get the skin scrape so you can make the right choice in your course of action. If its mange then get the NuStock and a bottle of Ivermectin 1% so you can start treatment right away.
> 
> The general dose of 1% Ivermectin is 1/10th of ml, per 10 lb of bodyweight, once a month for heartworm prevention.
> 
> ...


Listen to her :goodpost: .. I think it's demodex as well along with the Ivomec I would do a 2 week round of Antibiotics cephalexin just in case secondary infection has set in due to the itching. I don't suspect food allergies your dog is on the best dry food possible. The area's where hair loss is occurring is classic for demodex.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Have the vet do a skin scrape to confirm manage before you start treatment. But I suspect that's what is going on.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks a bunch. I have an apptment on Thur for a scraping, stool and blood work. I wanna nail this bugger to the wall!!

I already have the ivomec and nustock. Just gonna wait for the scraping and make sure he negative for heartworms.

Ill keep u posted


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

That sounds like a plan!  Keep us updated.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Get is scraped and if it is Demodex then you can treat at home. with the hives I almost want to say allergy but it looks like Demodex. A quick scrapping will confirm demo, if it is demo check this thread out. I have treated lots of dogs with demo and you have to approach it a few ways not just with Ivermectin.

http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/37005-how-treat-mange-home.html


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Just came from vet..demodex is confirmed! I saw those kreepy crawlers on the scope with my own eyes. Does anyone know if ivomec orally is less effective than when given subq? 

Also does any one have dosages (for dummies) for ivomec? My dog is weighing 24lbs right now

Thanks!


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## JeffG (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey Everyone! Brand new to the forum. What a great site!!

I have a rather confusing twist on this topic.

My 9 month old (neutered)male pit, Sawyer, (at about 12 weeks) developed bald spots on his back, shoulders and hips; and pus-pimples on his belly, inside his hocks and inside his forelegs. The areas were red, hot and some were weeping. The vet said it was allergies. Started him on prednisone, Heartguard, and ceflex. Things dried up and we went to grain free food, also. The bald spots did not regrow hair. 
As soon as we stepped down the prednisone, he bloomed again, hard! We had him scraped; doc said no mites. Now (again)his belly is covered with pus pimples and everything is worse. I suspect the 1 month of Heartguard...Ivermecten wore out. I gave him a new one yesterday.

I still say it's demo mange! I can barely look at the little guy. He is miserable!!

I am going with _Performanceknls_ home treatment. I am a lifelong dog owner, and I have never encountered this before. I thought I could count on the vet but....


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

When it is demo or any kind of mites, you can see them on the micro scope. Makes your skin crawl. I had an EB with serious allergies. Sounds a lot like what you are dealing with. 

Keep him on a quality kibble. There a few other good threads for allergies as you already know.

Good luck


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## JeffG (Oct 2, 2011)

Ok, here is what I have. (photos) do we really think allergies? If so, good; I will try to follow that line of management... I am at a loss right now.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Wow poor pooch I feel your pain now. It kinda looks like allergies gone unchecked for a very long time with possible secondary infections. 

I would switch up everything at this point.

Give him some benadryl for the itching relief. I think its 1mg per lb.

Give him quality kibble like Orijen, Blue buffalo, TOTW, Acana...

Look at where he lays down or sleeps. I would wash his sheet or bedding with a sensitive skin detergent like dreft or tide (white).

Cut out any treats like biscuits and what not

I would give him a bath wit dawn to get any possible contact allergen off. Then find a shampoo with Oatmeal.

Try nustock ointment on the bald spots of his neck.

...anyone else can chime in

Good luck and keep us posted


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## JeffG (Oct 2, 2011)

Yes! We have to do something. This comes in waves of severity. 

He is being treated, that's my frustration. He gets 50mg Benadryl daily, he is on prednisone and allergy shots, and Cephelex.. for the most part, he doesn't scratch.
He gets high grade duck and salmon kibble and blue Buffalo treats. 

I wash his (cotton and polyester) bedding in borax and baking soda only. I wash the plastic crate floor with Murphy's and rinse thoroughly. 

I will try Dreft orTide white. I took a day off work to get him to the vet.... 

He is clean as a new puppy, he doesn't smell and is not oily. The house is clean, vacuumed with HEPA grade filters. 

Does sulfadene type shampoo work? 

I will keep plugging away, but hold off on the mange treatment for now...doc says it's not mites, I gotta respect that. I wish I had my OWN microscope.

Thanks for the help.


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## crystalcountry (Dec 26, 2010)

Man! Good luck and hope you're boy get's relief soon!


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## JeffG (Oct 2, 2011)

*Ok guys....update. Knowing my vet for a friend, I suggested that we re-scrape for mites. Guess what...DEMODEX!! Everyone was relieved. He was dipped today and already looks better. We habe him on antibiotics, and I feel we have started down the road towards recovery!! Thanks for all of your replies, I will post some recovery pics as we go.*


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Wow glad to know! What the heck were they looking at on his previous scrapes??


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

wow looks better already! happy pup!


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## crystalcountry (Dec 26, 2010)

Glad to hear it got confirmed.


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## JeffG (Oct 2, 2011)

> Wow glad to know! What the heck were they looking at on his previous scrapes??


Dunno. Sometimes you only gather the evidence to support your theory, other times you look at the evidence, and then FORM a theory... Doc got his own attention and corrected the course of action, and I am grateful.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Sounds good  looking forward to seeing many more recovery pics.


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## APBT4LYFE (Jun 19, 2011)

great news, and already looking better!


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

As for me...I've had zorro on ivomec orally since Saturday and been spreading nustock on him. Too soon to tell any difference just yet IMO but hopefully I can kill those mites and have his hair grow back pronto! 

I'm having the wifey pick up a bottle of pyoben shampoo and insecticide spray\dip tomorrow as I'm getting paranoid that they might be on his undercarraige as well.

As for now my dog is a nustock yellow mess!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

NoWuCmEnOwU... said:


> As for me...I've had zorro on ivomec orally since Saturday and been spreading nustock on him. Too soon to tell any difference just yet IMO but hopefully I can kill those mites and have his hair grow back pronto!
> 
> I'm having the wifey pick up a bottle of pyoben shampoo and insecticide spray\dip tomorrow as I'm getting paranoid that they might be on his undercarraige as well.
> 
> As for now my dog is a nustock yellow mess!


Pyoben is a great follicular flushing shampoo and will help a lot. After a few weeks you should notice a difference the Ivomec is really good for getting rid of mange.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Ok its been 2 weeks tomorrow that my dog has been on ivomec orally daily and prolate dips every 2 to 3 days.

He doesn't look too much better, but at the same time has not gotten worst. Just wondering what every body elses experience has been with demo and how long of a recovery has it been for you.

Has any one tried ivomec subq to treat demo? I'm wondering if it is more effective that way.

He is taking multi vitamins to help his immune system as well.


Edit: dang Sadie, you were typing as I was lol I just type slower!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

NoWuCmEnOwU... said:


> Ok its been 2 weeks tomorrow that my dog has been on ivomec orally daily and prolate dips every 2 to 3 days.
> 
> He doesn't look too much better, but at the same time has not gotten worst. Just wondering what every body elses experience has been with demo and how long of a recovery has it been for you.
> 
> ...


You have to keep giving it until it starts to clear up. Let me ask you did you use the antibiotics as well? If the their is infection present from the scratching that needs to be delt with or else the condition is not going to improve.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

No I haven't been using the antibiotics. he hardly scratches himself but perhaps I should get it anyways.


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## JeffG (Oct 2, 2011)

Update on Sawyer; he is doing well. His hair loss hasn't stopped yet, but his attitude and sense of well-being has skyrocketed! :woof: Two more treatments with Mitoban are planned, and _supposedly _he will start recovering hair after the next treatment. I hope so, he is starting to look like a Playgirl pinup....:thumbsup:


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## JeffG (Oct 2, 2011)

Just an update on Sawyer. he just went through his FOURTH dip. His hair is trying to come back but it's _*really*_ slow. This last time, his front paws swelled up and blistered on the pads. I am not posting pics because he looks so bad.

Doc talked about (oral) Ivermectin in two weeks,I am thinking of taking over his care then and following _the home care posted in the stickys here_.

For Pete's sake people, If you suspect mange, jump on it right away, don't let anyone talk you into delaying treatment like I did; once it has a foothold it's nasty.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Sorry about Sawyer  I practically went my own route with the demodex in my vets opinion and Zorro has been making good strides towards being all healed up (been doing the home remedy). I'm waiting for a couple more weeks before I go back for a 2nd scraping.

I do recommend that you get a shampoo called pyoben to help flush his hair folicles.

Let me know how I can be of help to you.


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## JeffG (Oct 2, 2011)

Thanks for the good thoughts and support! We have Pyoben shampoo, how soon after dipping can we was him without dilluting the effects of the dip?


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

I would wash him before the dipping and then again if you notice that he is dirty but re apply after any wash.

But the dipping should be done pretty frequently so there is really no time for it to be "dilluted" the dipping is about every day for a couple weeks then every 2 or 3 days for a couple of weeks, then every 4 or 5 days for a couple weeks. But I use prolate which is a pesticide for cows and pigs. I'm not sure how to use the other dips. 

The purpose of the dips is to attack the mites from the outside in.
The ivomec is to attack the mites from the inside out.
The pyoben is to flush the hair folicles.
I am also using Cephalexin in the form of "fish-flex" which is to fight off or prevent any skin infection and help the skin heal faster.
I am also giving him multivitamins to help boost his immune system.

The most important part is killing off the mites. Then its just a matter of the skin healing and growing its hair back.

Hope this helps.


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## APBT4LYFE (Jun 19, 2011)

good luck guys, hope your pups get well soon.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Just to update anybody that is interested...

Zorro is healing up very well. His "mange spots" are filling back in nicely.

Hopefully no more issues with this stuff.

Amount of money spent at the vet...30$ for a scraping...hopefully thats about all the money the vet will take from me...excluding any shots lol

Thank you all that helped...Zorro sends licks!!!


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## APBT4LYFE (Jun 19, 2011)

zorro is looking good, he has gotten so big since you first got him.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

APBT4LYFE said:


> zorro is looking good, he has gotten so big since you first got him.


Lol thanks man! Its hard to tell when you see the dog every day. When I look back at the younger pics I'm like...ohhh snap!

He is 6months right now weighing 38lbs


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