# Raw Diet=DIARRHEA?



## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

Well my pup officially has the runs, has for the last few days... probably almost a week. He is drinking plenty water, running around happily all day, and eating plenty of food an there is no blood in the gooey/liquidish stool so I havent taken him to the vet. He seems healthy and eating plenty food, raw food, Chicken mostly plus some beef organs and a bit of supplements. He just recently quite eating kibble entirely after I had been giving him a bit of raw, so I had to adjust his raw diet and just cut out the kibble entirely. His runs seem to be ruffly coinciding with the removal of the kibble.... is it detox??

I am taking him in for vaccination in a few days so I will ask the vet then, but for now I am wondering what you guys think? any suggestions? I gave him pumpkin and it firms up his stool for little while but then its back to the runny poop again... any suggestions appreciated.


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

Deb??

Just curious...
what kind of organs?
is the chicken room temp or cold completely thawed or partially frozen?
What Supplements?

I haven't had any issues really with diarrhea and the raw diet...if anything I was concerned in the beginning because her poop was like dry little rabbit poop but I think that when I got her diet more balanced and complete it became more standard...it is still not very much and about once a day but it is firm...


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

At first I went through the hard dry thing too, in the very beginning. Which is why i am thinking maybe some sort of minor bacteria infection, or maybe his system is just overwhelmed... 

I have beef tripe, liver, and chicken gizzards and hearts. From what I understand this stuff should really only make up 10% of daily food so Ive only been giving him small amounts... he got the squirts directly after the liver so I am holding back on that for now. 
As for supplements, I just have some good human quality C, E, and digestive enzymes(acidophilus). I actually just picked them up and have been holding back until his diarrhea calms down for each except for the acidophilus, which I understand can help. At first I wasn't going to supplement, but after reading changed my mind. He is getting 60% boned meat (chicken), about 15% meat, about 10% organ, and then usually an egg and maybe a bit of yogurt...but since the runs have dropped these two as the possible culprit.
He is eating about ten percent of his bodies weight at these ratios daily...what I had read as the rcomendation from various sources.


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

The meat is completely thawed but cold out the fridge... should it be otherwise?
Just a note, today it seems to have escalated a bit, normally his diarrhea is exclusively a night time thing (middle of the night....ugh, luckily he wakes me up to take him out first), but today he seems to be having occasional projectile eruptions about every four hours, I am worried perhaps he is not actually getting the nutrients from his food, just blasting them out the other end!

By the way geisthexe...or Deb, since this question is kind of directed at you seemingly being the sort of authority on raw feeding on gopitbull.com forums, feel free to call me stupid if you think I am doing things all wrong and correct me! LOL


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Well I am not going to call you stupid by any means, You are trying to learn. But I need to know exactly what you are feeding your dog and how you are preparing it. Like you are stating partly frozen. So list it ALL then we can go from there 

Also if you do not mind sending me your phone number or I can PM you mine but I need to explain things better on the phone then on the net. So you can understand RAW diets. 

Deb


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## intensive (Apr 22, 2008)

maybe hes just not getting used to it very quickly?


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

I would be happy to speak directly however I am currently in the middle of a phone dilemma lol, seriously, but I will be getting my new phone via warrantied exchange hopefully in the mail on monday. 
For now though I guess I will just list below my exact sort of diet plan I have him set on and see what you, and anybody else, thinks...

10 percent his body weight daily (or as close to it as he will eat) of the following (about), I basically just weigh these amounts of each out and put them in bags in the freezer, then I thaw them the night before in the fridge where I keep them until he eats, so the meat is definitely cold but not frozen-

60%- Chicken leg/neck/back/wing (varying between these)
20%- Ground beef, turkey, or chicken
10-15%- Chiken gizzards and hearts/beef tripe or liver
5-10%-Raw egg w/shell and yogurt

I also have some fish, frozen whole sardines, which I am hoping to give him daily instead of supplementing with fish oil. As I said before, the only vitamins I have for him are-
C
E
Acidopholus

Any suggestions for others that are actually necessary are appreciated, from what I understand it is better to look out the nutrients in real food rather than in vitamin form so I don't really want to over do it. As for now I havent been giving him veggies, but I plan to add some once he gets established in his diet and over this damn diarrhea!


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

intensive said:


> maybe hes just not getting used to it very quickly?


That was one of my thoughts, people talk about a "de tox" period and that dogs will usually have difficulties at first until their bodies adjust.. but he was only fed kibble for a couple of weeks (he is only 9 weeks old now) so I am not sure. I am just hoping its normal and not some sort of infection of digestive problem. He is eating drinking and plenty energy though so I dont think he is really sick...


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

roleary said:


> I would be happy to speak directly however I am currently in the middle of a phone dilemma lol, seriously, but I will be getting my new phone via warrantied exchange hopefully in the mail on monday.
> For now though I guess I will just list below my exact sort of diet plan I have him set on and see what you, and anybody else, thinks...
> 
> 10 percent his body weight daily (or as close to it as he will eat) of the following (about), I basically just weigh these amounts of each out and put them in bags in the freezer, then I thaw them the night before in the fridge where I keep them until he eats, so the meat is definitely cold but not frozen-
> ...


Where is the Ruffage meaning vegitation? 
You are feeding sardines which do not have the good omegas in it. You need to be feeding Salmon & Mackryl to get the proper omega 3s. 
You are giving yogurt (acidopholus) but no cottage cheese (fat) 
You are not giving any fiber to keep the system sustaning itself. 
You need more supplements then what you are giving. you really need to look into the other post that was put up about vitamins (supplements for dogs)

As of Monday we need to talk on the phone b/c it is going to be really hard for me to make you understand what you are you doing to your dog.

Deb


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

geisthexe said:


> Where is the Ruffage meaning vegitation?
> You are feeding sardines which do not have the good omegas in it. You need to be feeding Salmon & Mackryl to get the proper omega 3s.
> You are giving yogurt (acidopholus) but no cottage cheese (fat)
> You are not giving any fiber to keep the system sustaning itself.
> ...


hmmm... ok, sounds good. I will PM my new number when I get it, hopefully those cingular people are working diligently! In the meantime I guess I will try adding cottage cheese... maybe that will help with the diarrhea also... I actually hadnt started the fish yet, but I will look into some Mackryl also, doesnt that stuff come in a can?


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

also... could I be feeding him too much? Ive read puppies need about UP TO ten percent body weight, but I know too much food can give the runs...


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

roleary said:


> also... could I be feeding him too much? Ive read puppies need about UP TO ten percent body weight, but I know too much food can give the runs...


Hun

I want you to go get the folllowing and start the dog on it

- green beans
- carrots
- pumpkin
- cottage cheese

along with what you are doing now.

What is your dogs weight .. I will tell you what you are suppost to be feeding.

Deb


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

Well I ashamed to admit that I dont know his EXACT weight, about two weeks ago he was at 9.5, he was 6.5 weeks then, now he is about 8.5 weeks, I have been going off of ten percent of 10 pounds for now... he normally wont eat it ALL... whatever he leaves uneaten ive just tossing or saving depending on how long it was left out. I would know exact weight, but my (actually my GF's) scale broke... Im going to vet in a few days and will know then for sure. He has grown a decent amount since he was 9.5 though...couldnt imagine more than a few pounds though..?

Ok, well since you are so adamant about the veggies.. do I need to grind them? I have given him some beans, which he gobbles up with no delay, but they come out pretty much still intact, which leads me to believe hes not digesting them...I heard dogs systems aren't capable of digesting raw veggies, which is why some people dont bother. But anyway, should I grind them up you think?


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

roleary said:


> Well I ashamed to admit that I dont know his EXACT weight, about two weeks ago he was at 9.5, he was 6.5 weeks then, now he is about 8.5 weeks, I have been going off of ten percent of 10 pounds for now... he normally wont eat it ALL... whatever he leaves uneaten ive just tossing or saving depending on how long it was left out. I would know exact weight, but my (actually my GF's) scale broke... Im going to vet in a few days and will know then for sure. He has grown a decent amount since he was 9.5 though...couldnt imagine more than a few pounds though..?
> 
> Ok, well since you are so adamant about the veggies.. do I need to grind them? I have given him some beans, which he gobbles up with no delay, but they come out pretty much still intact, which leads me to believe hes not digesting them...I heard dogs systems aren't capable of digesting raw veggies, which is why some people dont bother. But anyway, should I grind them up you think?


First off we can go off of 10 lbs of body weight x 8% body weight, he would be eating 
TWICE DAILY
- Veggie Mix = 1.4 ounces
- Meat = 3 ounces
- Oatmeal = 2 ounces
Total should be: 6.4 ounces of food for each sitting.

I hope you are feeding this pup twice daily

Second dogs can digest raw veggies my dogs have been digesting them for years. Its Ruffage / fiber to help with digestion process ex your diarrhia problem. Most folks that do not add veggies into the dogs food end up with problems like weight loss, pancreasitis, kidney problems etc. and this is why most VETS do not like the RAW diet.

Yes put the Veggies into the blender along with the cottage cheese, yogurt & Pumpkin (libbys from the can). Also forgot to add you need to get some oatmeal (vit Bs and good for digestion, not to mention a good for dog filler)

This is why I need to talk to you on the phone to explain what the reason is and why things need to happen with a RAW diet. Most everyone I have helped with a RAW diet has had NO problems with the dogs after being put on it.


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks deb, I will try it out and get back to you later on when my phone finally is replaced, in the meantime I came across an old thread where you an sydney were talking about making veggie muffin type deals, with blended up veggies and organ meat... I guess Ill have to put the oatmeal in with that because he really isnt excited about that stuff. I tried to give him some of my quaker plain oatmeal and he looked at me the same way that he looks at me when I try to give him kibble... kinda like he thinks I am an idiot if I expect him to eat that! Any way, I will let you know how things go, his runs seem to have relaxed a but today so hopefully thats a good sign.
-rob


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## wittypits (Apr 6, 2008)

d0ggmann said:


> he might have been a little to young when you first started him out on the raw food. when a puppy is young they need all fat and nutrients that they can get not meaning overweight them, but introducing raw diet in little at a time, but i always thought it was wrong to give a dog raw chicken, but i don't know that much about it, but suggesting you might want to go with regular old dog food for rite now to harden up his stool and to get his blood count up. red cell can help you with the eating part, it gives them energy and appetite. and p.s. you might wanna try some malox or peppto not being funny just give a smaller dose then yo would for humans. cause diarahha can cause dehydration fast in a puppy.


*DON'T *use malox it is for heartburn and can really mess up your dogs system..... Pepto and Kaeopectate (spelling is wrong).... check with your vet for proper doses as it also can be harmful and cause constipation which will lead to just as many problems.


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

d0ggmann said:


> he might have been a little to young when you first started him out on the raw food. when a puppy is young they need all fat and nutrients that they can get not meaning overweight them, but introducing raw diet in little at a time, but i always thought it was wrong to give a dog raw chicken, but i don't know that much about it, but suggesting you might want to go with regular old dog food for rite now to harden up his stool and to get his blood count up. red cell can help you with the eating part, it gives them energy and appetite. and p.s. you might wanna try some malox or peppto not being funny just give a smaller dose then yo would for humans. cause diarahha can cause dehydration fast in a puppy.


I again to not mean to step on your toes but you should not give malox or pepto .. the best one to give if immodium in pill form not in liquid form as it has alcochol in it. It will help to firm up the pups stool quickly. 
but I do believe Rob has his pup problem under control.

Deb


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## wittypits (Apr 6, 2008)

Our vet says pepto is okay in very small doses.. that is why I said check with your vet.


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