# Are all the dog's in this pedigree really from Watchdog bloodlines??????



## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

Name: Mugleston's Blue Goliath
Birthdate: Dec 26, 2000
Color: Blue
Registry: Dual registered UKC/ADBA
Weight: An incredible 142 pounds!!!!!
Height: 22 1/2 inches at the shoulders. He's not tall/lanky at all, he's just HUGE!!
Head size: A Monster 28 inches
Bloodlines: 100% Watchdog
HUGHZEE'S PRETTY BOY BLUE (Capone)WATCHDOG'S BEELZEBUBCOUTURIER'S BLUE BULLYWATCHDOG'S ZULUHUGHZEE'S BOSSY BOOHughzee's Sky BluePERSINGER'S MOLLIE BEEWATCHDOG'S RAGING BLUE SABLEMARRALES' RAGING RED BULLSPAGUE'S BUSTER BROWNLEONE'S SADIE MAEGIRLBOBBIE'S RAGING LADY MIAHCROMNE'S BULL RAGING ROLLINSSHPRD'S RAGING RED-HOT COCO

THIS IS JUST NOT AN AMERICAN PITBULL TERRIER!!!oke:


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## GSDBulldog (Dec 22, 2006)

I'm not sure all of the dogs in their pedigrees are... dogs. :hammer:


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

cherol said:


> Name: Mugleston's Blue Goliath
> Birthdate: Dec 26, 2000
> Color: Blue
> Registry: Dual registered UKC/ADBA
> ...


definately looks like a happy lovable dog... but not APBT material by far... definately an american bully!!!


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## drsven (Mar 21, 2007)

cherol said:


> Name: Mugleston's Blue Goliath
> Birthdate: Dec 26, 2000
> Color: Blue
> Registry: Dual registered UKC/ADBA
> ...


The names in the pedigree look okay but that dog looks like he's been crossbred with something else. Both my dogs are direct offspring from Chaos/Watchdog bred dogs and have pretty much the same ancestory as Goliath. My female full grown is less than half his weight. I've never before seen a Watchdog bred APBT this large and neither has anyone else. He's either a freak of nature or he's crossbred with a false/hung pedigree. Let me guess, it was the Nu-Vet vitamins this kennel promotes that made Goliath this big!! LOL


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

I think this one is related?


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

drsven said:


> The names in the pedigree look okay but that dog looks like he's been crossbred with something else. Both my dogs are direct offspring from Chaos/Watchdog bred dogs and have pretty much the same ancestory as Goliath. My female full grown is less than half his weight. I've never before seen a Watchdog bred APBT this large and neither has anyone else. He's either a freak of nature or he's crossbred with a false/hung pedigree. Let me guess, it was the Nu-Vet vitamins this kennel promotes that made Goliath this big!! LOL


The site does "promote" the use of Nu-Vet vitamins....Big surprise huh?
We have a dog that have quite a bit of watchdog in him and he is on the larger side of pitbull extremes to me (at about 75 lbs) but 142lbs!!!! I'm sorry but that is freaking ridiculous. I was thinking the same about either crossbred or false/hung pedigree..... The dog is both UKC and ADBA papered....I know the dog was registered probably as a pup...but would UKC or ADBA register this dog as an adult??


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## drsven (Mar 21, 2007)

cherol said:


> The site does "promote" the use of Nu-Vet vitamins....Big surprise huh?
> We have a dog that have quite a bit of watchdog in him and he is on the larger side of pitbull extremes to me (at about 75 lbs) but 142lbs!!!! I'm sorry but that is freaking ridiculous. I was thinking the same about either crossbred or false/hung pedigree..... The dog is both UKC and ADBA papered....I know the dog was registered probably as a pup...but would UKC or ADBA register this dog as an adult??


I'm sure he's a great dog and I bet he really does look impressive in person. It just sucks to see a big name kennel advertising him as pure bred APBT when he's most likely not.

This is a direct quote from Goliath's page:

----snip----

Load up your scales & tape measures cause your not going to believe this. We should charge admission to see this freak of nature! This gentle giant is really scary looking in person (he's just so gigantic) but he is just a big lovable baby. He is not aggressive at all but is very laid back and actually a little bit lazy. He is very smart and well behaved. He has been examined by a UKC judge and is 100% correct. Massive, but correct. He has some giant rednose in his background which is where he gets his size.

----snip----

I would love to know which UKC judge said this.


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

I'm not saying anything as to what kind of dog he is...He looks happy and I'm sure is a great dog......I just think that this is a great example of what should NOT be allowed to be registered as an American Pit Bull Terrier. I think that dogs like this should have their papers revoked because it is so obviously not an American Pit Bull Terrier. 142 lbs that's almost the size of a rottweiler......

Maybe he was examined by a UKC judge as a puppy... LOL


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## GSDBulldog (Dec 22, 2006)

cherol said:


> 142 lbs that's almost the size of a rottweiler......


Rottweilers are no where near 142 pounds. 120 pounds would be pushing the limit for an adult, male Rottie.


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

GSDBulldog said:


> Rottweilers are no where near 142 pounds. 120 pounds would be pushing the limit for an adult, male Rottie.


I've seen some monster rottweilers and yes they weighed that much or more. I know a kennel about 50 miles from me that regularly produces rottweilers that big.


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## drsven (Mar 21, 2007)

cherol said:


> I'm not saying anything as to what kind of dog he is...He looks happy and I'm sure is a great dog......I just think that this is a great example of what should NOT be allowed to be registered as an American Pit Bull Terrier. I think that dogs like this should have their papers revoked because it is so obviously not an American Pit Bull Terrier. 142 lbs that's almost the size of a rottweiler......
> 
> Maybe he was examined by a UKC judge as a puppy... LOL


I can tell you one thing for sure, Watchdog bred APBT's are not UKC registered, they are ADBA registered. Muglestons has Goliath UKC registed which means he was at least 1 year old when the UKC judge examined him for dual registry.


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## drsven (Mar 21, 2007)

GSDBulldog said:


> Rottweilers are no where near 142 pounds. 120 pounds would be pushing the limit for an adult, male Rottie.


I've seen several male AKC German rottweilers that were in the 140 lb range. The dogs may have been slightly overweight but this isn't uncommon with the breed.


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

drsven said:


> I've seen several male AKC German rottweilers that were in the 140 lb range. The dogs may have been slightly overweight but this isn't uncommon with the breed.


The kennel that I know are AKC German Rottweilers. Their foundation dogs are all actually imported from Germany. My brother's came from them and he was a monster of a dog. He made 3 of any one of our dogs.


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

drsven said:


> I can tell you one thing for sure, Watchdog bred APBT's are not UKC registered, they are ADBA registered. Muglestons has Goliath UKC registed which means he was at least 1 year old when the UKC judge examined him for dual registry.


I have a APBT that has quite a bit of Watchdog in it and he's is ADBA AND UKC registered at birth not single registered.

I don't understand about how Goliath had to be single registered. If both his parents were UKC registered then they could have registered the litter UKC meaning he would have been registered UKC as a puppy.


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## TheBullBeastLover (Jul 18, 2007)

cherol said:


> Name: Mugleston's Blue Goliath
> Birthdate: Dec 26, 2000
> Color: Blue
> Registry: Dual registered UKC/ADBA
> ...


hmm i dont know what his ped says but all i see is hippo bullfrog mix :hammer:


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## Insanelypitbulls (Mar 24, 2007)

a lot of u say that he is mixed with american bulldog but how they don't even get that big usually males are normally around 125 not his size i raise them so i know how big they get 135 is the biggest i have seen.


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## TheBullBeastLover (Jul 18, 2007)

do you raise pitbulls or american bully's because an APBT that is 125 or 135 is not truthky an APBT in my opion APBT were bred to be working dogs have great agility and speed and when your a dog weighing as much as a human being your not goign to be all that agile and fast IMO and also he can get that huge from the cross breeding american pitbulls recommended weight are 30 to 60 pounds added to 125 or 135 pounds you got a hippo IMO


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Until a registry steps up and says no to the almighty $$DOLLAR$$ There are going to be dogs "REGISTERED" as APBT that arent.


I should start my own registry!!!


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## drsven (Mar 21, 2007)

cherol said:


> I have a APBT that has quite a bit of Watchdog in it and he's is ADBA AND UKC registered at birth not single registered.
> 
> I don't understand about how Goliath had to be single registered. If both his parents were UKC registered then they could have registered the litter UKC meaning he would have been registered UKC as a puppy.


Your dog may have Watchdog ancestory but he/she is not direct offspring from a Watchdog sire/dam.
Watchdog Kennels only registered it's APBT's with the ADBA. According to Goliath's pedigree his dam is from Watchdog kennels which would make her ADBA reg. Goliath is most likely an ADBA dog that was single registered with the UKC.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

casey coutier[sp],
started the aba,american bulldog registry.that is a huge american bulldog registry,the biggest and he was,is,as involved with the ab as much as the apbt or more,just food for thought....
a performance ab weight is usually around 80/100 pounds,this is what he bred..is it possable that ab was thrown into the blood of watch dog apbts somewhere down the line,id say definetly,was it his foundation stock,only he knows....
As far as the real deal german rottie,those dogs are no more than 100 pounds for functional working class dogs.
id hate to take away any reputation of the watch dog blood lines working dogs and can not varify any info with 100% ceartinty but i can only speak what ive heard through research....
as far as muglstons dogs,they are far out of standard and over priced and 95% cross bred....


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## GnarlyBlue (Aug 18, 2007)

What about these guys cane? www.ironcrosskennels.com .Being from SoCal do you think there is an over emphasis on huge pits?
I swear that everytime I walk my beautiful 45lb. blue people ask me "Is she part pit bull?" 
I am not a big fan of the XXL pits but I've looked at some ped of these dogs and have PR' N,GR,CH in them. I want to breed her but have a hard time finding any dogs under 80lbs. with papers especially.
It's like people only buy dogs from some @$$hole on the street for cheap and there are no good papered studs around San Diego.

I was going to breed to this beautiful Razors Edge, Blue and white in town, his ped was amazing. Then the owner told me how many allergies the stud had, and how he gave him cortizone shots and 6 pills a day for his hay fever and food allergies! F that noise.:hammer:


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## TheBullBeastLover (Jul 18, 2007)

Those arent dogs those are humans in pitbull costumes :hammer:


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## GSDBulldog (Dec 22, 2006)

> I am not a big fan of the XXL pits but I've looked at some ped of these dogs and have PR' N,GR,CH in them. I want to breed her but have a hard time finding any dogs under 80lbs. with papers especially.


"PR" means nothing. It's a "title" to recognize that the dog has been registered with the UKC for the past 4 (Or 6?) generations.

"CH" & "GR CH" titles mean nothing unless they are on the dog in question (And even then... You need to examine the whole picture!). Ancestors to Mugleston's stock have GRCH/CH's in their titles, and we all know how legit their kennel is. "Champion bloodlines" is a ploy used by backyard breeders.

Perhaps if you concentrated less on looks, and more on: health, temperament, preformances, and titles then you'd have better luck finding a proper "stud".

Has your bitch done anything to prove her merit to be bred?

You obviously see that there is an overpopulation of pit bulls in your area, paticularly blue ones. Perhaps you could make a difference and set an example by responsibly breeding your bitch, if you must breed at all?


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## GnarlyBlue (Aug 18, 2007)

Good on you GSD, I am planning on showing her in confirmation and weight pulling before I breed her.
Blue's definately aren't the norm out here but the big bullies are, I can't understand having a 130lb. pit. I feel bad for them walking around all slow, struggling to breathe. That is what I notice around here. When I talk to a APBT "breeder" who shows me a picture of his dogs last litter and says "look at that cute pile of money", it makes me frustrated. 
But when I say I'm looking to breed my dog, I am only looking. If I found a real quality stud, THEN if my dog wins any degrees... maybe. It is a very serious decision not taken lightly. But knowing a good dog to breed to just is the first step in my curiosity.
That's what I love about this site, there are responsible dog owners looking out for a beautiful intelligent animal that they are passionate about.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

GnarlyBlue said:


> What about these guys cane? www.ironcrosskennels.com .Being from SoCal do you think there is an over emphasis on huge pits?
> I swear that everytime I walk my beautiful 45lb. blue people ask me "Is she part pit bull?"
> I am not a big fan of the XXL pits but I've looked at some ped of these dogs and have PR' N,GR,CH in them. I want to breed her but have a hard time finding any dogs under 80lbs. with papers especially.
> It's like people only buy dogs from some @$$hole on the street for cheap and there are no good papered studs around San Diego.
> ...


there some sort of mastiff apbt/staff hybrids basically a designer dog,now somebody put some working titles on these dogs and ill be impressed,intill then id say there basically curs that give both working bandogges and real deal apbts a bad name and blur the line between purity and cross bred dogs more and more.
you have to select for more than size and color to get a real working dog of any breed,i get the vibe from ick that they are little more than hollywood elitists that care little for function in the dogs and admit that they are predisposed to demotoxic mange{sp]....actually im not sure if its mange since mange is caused by a mite i believe,but its some skin disorder ,im not a dvm,lol....they provide alittle info about it on there site.


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## GSDBulldog (Dec 22, 2006)

GnarlyBlue said:


> Good on you GSD, I am planning on showing her in confirmation and weight pulling before I breed her.
> Blue's definately aren't the norm out here but the big bullies are, I can't understand having a 130lb. pit. I feel bad for them walking around all slow, struggling to breathe. That is what I notice around here. When I talk to a APBT "breeder" who shows me a picture of his dogs last litter and says "look at that cute pile of money", it makes me frustrated.
> But when I say I'm looking to breed my dog, I am only looking. If I found a real quality stud, THEN if my dog wins any degrees... maybe. It is a very serious decision not taken lightly. But knowing a good dog to breed to just is the first step in my curiosity.
> That's what I love about this site, there are responsible dog owners looking out for a beautiful intelligent animal that they are passionate about.


Thank you for looking out for the breed.

How old is she now? You can have her hips, elbows, patellas, and heart screened through the OFA at 2 years of age. She may seem healthy on the outside, but these tests screen for genetic issues that lie underneath he surface. Just some food for thought :cheers:


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## GnarlyBlue (Aug 18, 2007)

cane76 said:


> there some sort of mastiff apbt/staff hybrids basically a designer dog,now somebody put some working titles on these dogs and ill be impressed,intill then id say there basically curs that give both working bandogges and real deal apbts a bad name and blur the line between purity and cross bred dogs more and more.
> you have to select for more than size and color to get a real working dog of any breed,i get the vibe from ick that they are little more than hollywood elitists that care little for function in the dogs and admit that they are predisposed to demotoxic mange{sp]....actually im not sure if its mange since mange is caused by a mite i believe,but its some skin disorder ,im not a dvm,lol....they provide alittle info about it on there site.


I couldn't agree more. If the general public could distinguish these mongrel beasts from the real thing there'd be alot less ignorance towards the APBT


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## GnarlyBlue (Aug 18, 2007)

GSDBulldog said:


> Thank you for looking out for the breed.
> 
> How old is she now? You can have her hips, elbows, patellas, and heart screened through the OFA at 2 years of age. She may seem healthy on the outside, but these tests screen for genetic issues that lie underneath he surface. Just some food for thought :cheers:


 she's just 25 mos. now so she's eligable for the orthopedic foundation, our vet has told us she's got great hips so far, but she's got to have a full workup if she's bred. Can't pass on gene's that don't improve the breed as a whole.
We're just happy to have an amazing dog.she's trained in almost 40 verbal commands 10 in czech, and almost 30 in english. Temperment is extraordinary, on my parents property she'd give the cat kisses on her way in the door, one time it bolted, she chased it into a corner, play bowed and tried to get the cat to chase her. She likes dogs too


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## sleipner (Dec 26, 2008)

*mugleston's goliath*

i was just up at jed morris' place and goliath is amazing. all this arguing over papers is rediculous. if you like the type of dog than it's your style. some like big, some short, some with cute snoopy faces, whatever!! jed produces some freaks of nature for sure. but they are big beautiful dogs with great temperments. if you like small scrappy dogs thats cool too. i had a 50 lb female that was sooo badass a 100lber would have to watch his step around her. but now i want a big dog. that is my choice. 
all breeding unless unsupervised is a man's choice of what 2 dogs will breed. so this is all a human experiment. so pick your dogs for you, and i will pick mine for me. then we are all happy. but there is no reason to put someone or their dog down is there?


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

cherol said:


> The site does "promote" the use of Nu-Vet vitamins....Big surprise huh?
> We have a dog that have quite a bit of watchdog in him and he is on the larger side of pitbull extremes to me (at about 75 lbs) but 142lbs!!!! I'm sorry but that is freaking ridiculous. I was thinking the same about either crossbred or false/hung pedigree..... The dog is both UKC and ADBA papered....I know the dog was registered probably as a pup...but would UKC or ADBA register this dog as an adult??


yea kolby has watchdog in him but he's a good ol' 68 lbs! (weight was taken last week) but even in his family , no big bulky watchdogs like this...


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

drsven said:


> I can tell you one thing for sure, Watchdog bred APBT's are not UKC registered, they are ADBA registered. Muglestons has Goliath UKC registed which means he was at least 1 year old when the UKC judge examined him for dual registry.


this one i will back for sure, none of kolby watchdog ancisters are regs. with anything other than ADBA.


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## purplestars21 (Dec 25, 2008)

im all for bullies but this is a monster and obviously way messed up.


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## frenchy2007 (Oct 23, 2008)

im sorry that you dont like that dog but ID KILL TO HAVE A DOG LIKE THAT LOL ...not literally for yall da's


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## dixie (Apr 11, 2009)

hippo bullfrom that there is funny


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## SutterCane (Jan 9, 2009)

Hippo bullfrog should not be in the vocabulary around here. We love our dogs and when so called normal people call them names, we don't like it. I find it very offensive to put a deregatory label on a dog. Someone said they would just say the dog is "overdone." Thats a very respectful way for one to state their opinion without offending and causing another member to become upset. The only reason that I responded to this was illustrate a point. Just in the few months I've been on here, I've noticed a big difference when people are talking about bullies and APBT's. There is not nearly as much name calling now. I'm not trying to get down on you dixie, but none of us want our dogs called any name that is mean't to be an insult. Hippo bullfrog is mean't to be degrading. Just some food for thought...


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

To answer the question - NO - not all the dogs in that dog's ped are Watchdog bred dogs. The dog 's *pedigree* says it is Chaos bred, but I doubt it really is. I always heard the Mugleston bred dogs were pit bull x Neo mastiff (bandogges) pushed off as "pit bulls." But back to the OQ, I've seen CK dogs for 10 years & NONE looked like that. But even if the ped was correct (which again, I doubt it is) CK dogs are NOT 100% WD. They started out having a little WD via the Persinger blood, then they picked up Blue Bubba when CC got out of the breed & got a little more WD elsewhere (Padilla, etc.) but CK dogs are still far from pure WD. So even if this Mugleston bandogge was 100% Chaos, he would still not be 100% WD. 

P.S. - The original WD dogs WERE UKC reg. The founder of WDK was even a UKC judge. I had a double bred granddaughter of WD's Blu Glory that was dual ADBA & UKC PR. CC took his dogs out of UKC & to ADBA after UKC began frowning on game testing. 

Hope this helps.


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## philly pitbull (Sep 5, 2008)

SutterCane said:


> Hippo bullfrog should not be in the vocabulary around here. We love our dogs and when so called normal people call them names, we don't like it. I find it very offensive to put a deregatory label on a dog. Someone said they would just say the dog is "overdone." Thats a very respectful way for one to state their opinion without offending and causing another member to become upset. The only reason that I responded to this was illustrate a point. Just in the few months I've been on here, I've noticed a big difference when people are talking about bullies and APBT's. There is not nearly as much name calling now. I'm not trying to get down on you dixie, but none of us want our dogs called any name that is mean't to be an insult. Hippo bullfrog is mean't to be degrading. Just some food for thought...


Kudos, well said.


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

My dog blue is from the same line of dogs and he is about half that size he is 100% watchdog and yes the watchdog bloodline is a line of LARGE DOGS. THEY WERE BREED FOR HUNTING HOGS AND OTHER LARGE GAME. THIS IS BLUE AND HE IS ONLY AROUND 70 LBS. Go Pitbull .com - Pitbull Forums - BLUE PIT BULL MAN's Album: more pics of blue - Picture


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

TheBullBeastLover said:


> hmm i dont know what his ped says but all i see is hippo bullfrog mix :hammer:


hippo? bullfrog?.........sssshhhh lil boy


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

TheBullBeastLover said:


> hmm i dont know what his ped says but all i see is hippo bullfrog mix :hammer:


He is a good looking bully type dog but he is huge!!!!!!


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

look at this dog he is watch dog aswell.

Go Pitbull .com - Pitbull Forums - BLUE PIT BULL MAN's Album: more pics of blue - Picture

i have seen freaks of nature come from my freinds dogs but none as major as as this dog but it could be possible all you could do is buy a puppy and get a dna test


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## BmoreTrue (Jun 19, 2009)

makes me think of sandlot FOR-EV-ER -FOR-EV-ER


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

That was a good movie!! And theat dog was a pure breed mastiff


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

BLUE PIT BULL MAN said:


> That was a good movie!! And theat dog was a pure breed mastiff


Mtn Oaks Ranch English Mastiffs - Champions producing Champions

Yeah his name was CH Mountain Oaks Gunner

you'll see him on their home page if you visit


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

chic4pits said:


> this one i will back for sure, none of kolby watchdog ancisters are regs. with anything other than ADBA.


Mine is adba and all his ancestors are as well. So I think you could be right
:goodpost:


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