# notorious you know who.



## intensive (Apr 22, 2008)

just curious, the notorious juan gotti was a very fine specimen in my eyes, or at least the only picture that pops up when you google him does. you know the one, side picture with him looking to the side, front leg cocked up almost at a prance kinda deal.

question is, if you dont believe he is a apbt, what would you think his genetics came from? like what dogs coulda been matched to make him look like that?

i definately dont think a mastiff could have done it, his head just doesnt remind me of a RE or some of the monster gottis or other mixed bullies.

just figured id see what yall thought hahaoke:


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## intensive (Apr 22, 2008)

-the reason being, my angel is starting to show some good lookin potential, some identical markings also!

i really like some gottis, and hopefully she will fill out to what im thinking she will, not a barrell but a muscle packed short to medium stature with a big head, but not a bully head exactly


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Not sure about his breeding but I thought you mit like to see these pics of him and his sire and dam.

PR NOTORIOUS JUAN GOTTY
























Sire 'PR' GREYLINE'S RAIDER 2 Also Sire to Dam








Dam PR GRAY LINES CALLE LOVE BLUEGOOD








Dam to 'PR' GREYLINE'S RAIDER 2
'PR' TONY'S SHOWTIME








Sire to 'PR' GREYLINE'S RAIDER 2
PR. CHAIN GANG BARNEY


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

You may want to do a forum search I remember a lengthy thread about him.

Definitely not my type of dog. I prefer a dog that meets the standard. 

I'll just leave my comment at that...:cheers:


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

*he was more than likley a linebred amstaff with a touch of apbt/amstaff "ukc bobble head" in him,
maybe some bulldog blood but probably not,
to early on in the trend for that.
hes basically a large blue amstaff/apbt glorified for his reproduction values based on nothing,jmo..
and of course all these dogs stem from early apbts,but is that even relevant now?*


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I like him... I know alot of you don't, if there were standards for AmBullies vwould you like him then. It's the fact that they called him a pit that annoys me. Other than that he was a gorgeous dog himself. JMO


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

I'd like him if he was noted on anything other than his breedings,
other than that what did he do?
he's titled in nada,
he's not shown doing anything either so what was he really all about..
Just a large blue amstaff,
what kind of accomplishment is that?
Coupled by the rumors that he was infact a manbiter
that dont do him any justice,jmo...
regards to alll!!!!!!!!


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Your logic is reasonable, I don't disagree what so ever. I think the lust for Juan Gotti is purely superficial, that's all I like about him... He's a purdy dog. How did this dog besome so popular anyhow? There's plenty of damn good looking dogs out there that aren't recognized by throwing nice looking pups, what made this dog so special???


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## intensive (Apr 22, 2008)

thanks for the pics!

i really like the way he looks, alot better then some bowlegged monster, but not skinny skinny. im glad i got angel i want her to grow up to be my lil bully sweetheart, bams gonna be my toned athelete.

i guess he is a glorified stud dog, but, still nice looking imo


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

He is a nice looking bully but the one that caught my eye is "PR" Tonys Showtime. He is a nice looking boy.


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## apbtproud (May 28, 2008)

I believe juan gotti was mixed with English Bulldog, 
I mean now its crazy I have been at fun shows and it doesn't matter what kind of dog you have if you know the judge you will win and all of sudden everybody want a pup of that dog that won.. He can be bowlegged, crossed eyed dog and he is worth lots of $$. 
Its just sad and crazy out there..


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## intensive (Apr 22, 2008)

yea, not thinking a bulldog was involved in this one, the ones iv seen artificially insemenated with bulldog sperm always seem to be 4-5 inches off the ground with a small body and a topheavy head, and his head looks to pitbull like, the bridge of the muzzle and top of the skull, jawbones and cheeks. i think it was more of a linebred amstaff breed like cane said.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

cane76 said:


> other than that what did he do?
> he's titled in nada,
> he's not shown doing anything either so what was he really all about..
> Just a large blue amstaff,
> what kind of accomplishment is that?


Look, also, at what he's produced. I don't have his pedigree bookmarked, but last time I looked at his offspring listing, there were something like 100 pups, and maybe 1 or 2 champions. Clearly, in order to have him producing a mess of titled dogs, they would've had to stud him out to only responsible people. But the fact that reputable breeders weren't knocking down the door to get Gotti blood in their program speaks volumes to me.

As for Gotti looking and producing like he did, my vote is that Chrondoplasia (sp?) stuff. Although one of his ancestors (Barney) posted in this thread looks like a mix. Reminds me of a Whopper dog.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

bahamutt99 said:


> As for Gotti looking and producing like he did, my vote is that Chrondoplasia (sp?) stuff. Although one of his ancestors (Barney) posted in this thread looks like a mix. Reminds me of a Whopper dog.


*Yes chain gangs baney appears to be part dogue,that really says alot,there is a part mastiff side to gotti and the gray line dogs..
I knew it,lol*


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

> if there were standards for AmBullies would you like him then.


 No, because he is not the kind of dog that I personally would want. However, I respect others opinions & what they like.

IMO if he were a linebred Amstaff he should still look like an Amstaff. 
However, taking into account things like chrondoplasia and those who choose to breed dogs that condition or just other out of standard traits to reinforce those particular genes, he could possible be... I really have no idea


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

I don't know, I see a "little" APBT/Amstaff in the face but that's where the story ends..JMHO


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Does anyone have Gotti's pedigree? I'd like to look up his offspring again. I remember someone put a rather humorous spoof pedigree up for one of his sons.

ETA: Nevermind, answered my own question. Gotty's ped.


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

didn't read everything so if i repeat sorry! lol...


Gotti(R.I.P) is one of my favorite bullies hands down! I believe he is pit x Amstaff because back when Gotti was young they didn't really add all that mastiff/bulldog stuff later down the line they did.... He was a great looking dog I had the chance to see him inperson before and was lucky enough to get my one of my males straight from Gotti. As for his owner Rich is a cool dude but I have heard somethings about that I didn't like when it came to Monster....


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Interestingly enough"chain gangs barney" is missing from radier 2's pedigreehttp://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=32696


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

I'm sure most of these dogs are full of "mistakes and discrepancies". All honest mistakes though...:flush:


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Gotti is belly high, why do you consider him a dwarf? I think his extreme deep chest might be throwing off the preception of his leg length.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

reddoggy said:


> Gotti is belly high, why do you consider him a dwarf? I think his extreme deep chest might be throwing off the preception of his leg length.


I agree,its easy to say that a dog suffers from dwarfism or some such,but both gotti and chain gang charlie are 20inch's plus,cross breeding probably,dwarfism,not in this case...
I believe this is a dwarf.....


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

cane76 said:


> I agree,its easy to say that a dog suffers from dwarfism or some such,but both gotti and chain gang charlie are 20inch's plus,cross breeding probably,dwarfism,not in this case...
> I believe this is a dwarf.....


To say the least! WOW! That poor dog, it starts normal size right at the knee... that's crazy!


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

IT LOOKS LIKE A PIG! Poor doggie...


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## intensive (Apr 22, 2008)

lmao that dogs prolly cool as hell tho, it seems its about as high as my parents dachsunde


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

cane76 said:


> Interestingly enough"chain gangs barney" is missing from radier 2's pedigreehttp://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=32696


That could be miss info on my part. I was looking into it and chain gang was the sire I found however that could be wrong.

This is another ped of Raider2 I found
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=255266

Gotti and Chain gang do share their size but to me Chain gang looks nothing like Raider who IMO is a great looking dog. Not quite sure how he produced Gotti. I like Gotti but he is nothing at all like his father other than blue.


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

GOTTI is a beautiful dog! i dont care what's his pedigree!


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

I did an informal survey on an all-breed board before, and asked people if they were bothered by various pictures. (One of a dog lunging, one of a kid wearing a pro-fighting t-shirt, etc.) When they got to the pic of Gotty, it was funny how many people answered "I'm not bothered by it, but that doesn't look like an APBT to me." And these were not necessarily Pit Bull folk, just dog folk. :flush:


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

*chek it,this gotti bred/line[whatever] doesnt seem to bad right?*
http://www.gottylinepits.com/legacy.htm


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

To me, it all depends on the perspective of the person bringing up the subject. If you call him a pit bull, I'll tell you what a disgusting monstrosity he is, if you call him a DOG, I'll agree that he's a decent looking DOG.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

cane76 said:


> *chek it,this gotti bred/line[whatever] doesnt seem to bad right?*
> http://www.gottylinepits.com/legacy.htm


Man, that's bad...


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

cane76 said:


> *chek it,this gotti bred/line[whatever] doesnt seem to bad right?*
> http://www.gottylinepits.com/legacy.htm


theres a couple of cute dogs there but imvHo most of them are UGLY. I like the larger bullies, i mean larger as in hieght.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

buzhunter said:


> To me, it all depends on the perspective of the person bringing up the subject. If you call him a pit bull, I'll tell you what a disgusting monstrosity he is, if you call him a DOG, I'll agree that he's a decent looking DOG.


I like that, and that's the way I see it. Funny how we keep coming back to this subject though. I think that the home page or the greeting forum should have pics of the different bully breeds, JMO. I happen to like AmBullies but it bugs the crap outta me when people call them APBT. It got so bad, the confusion, that the supreme court ruled if it looks like a pit then we'll call it a pit by law


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Yep, that's about the way it is. It's sad times when the APBT is defined by dog wardens, shoddy registries, and BYBs. They should be defined by their accomplishments.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

cane76 said:


> *chek it,this gotti bred/line[whatever] doesnt seem to bad right?*
> http://www.gottylinepits.com/legacy.htm


Man, come on. You should at least include a disgusting content warning with that! I could've been eating or something!

(Now I'm just being an ass. Lemme stop.)


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

*Sorry,i was actually hoping somebody would actually believe i truely thought those dwarf,pigs, were decent dogs,thats what these breeders want?they truely are crazy,
i wounder if they could find away to have a bully grow a tail off its forehead,and bred for it would it become the new big thing since it seems breeding for deformitys are there goals,and what alot of fools want*These particular dogs are not good reresenitives of any breed,jmo......


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

cane76 said:


> *chek it,this gotti bred/line[whatever] doesnt seem to bad right?*
> http://www.gottylinepits.com/legacy.htm


I kinda like this one, he's a cool "DOG".


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

he's cool, but I like this one. lol


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

buzhunter said:


> he's cool, but I like this one. lol


Yeah me too..:cheers:


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

cane76 said:


> *chek it,this gotti bred/line[whatever] doesnt seem to bad right?*
> http://www.gottylinepits.com/legacy.htm


What's dumb to me, is that the site has 'pits' in their web address, and the pictures that they have, on the home page, with their dog's 'accomplishments' say "Labor Day *Bully* Show", "Cinco De Mayo *Bully* Show", "Flatlands *Bully* Expo".

The other thing I've noticed on alot of Bully sites, is that they show pictures of some dogs that are "RIP", yet they never mention how old it was, or how it died. I could just be speculating, but it seems like if they don't live that long.


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## money_killer (Apr 14, 2008)

ericschevy said:


> I kinda like this one, he's a cool "DOG".


too much bully in it i think is it classed as a pitbull?


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

He's a cool "Dog". lol


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Ive came across some pretty cool info....
It seems as though the dog listed as "chain gangs barney" is actually named "cream" or "chain gangs butthead"this is the dog,








supposedly "chain gangs barney' was a game dog owned by the owner and they hung the papers and used the cream or "butthead' dog for the photo.
Raider two[gottis sire]was actually out of this dog"camacho"and they gave birth to the "butthead" or "cream" dog.http://www.dogoodkennel.com/camacho.html
So actually there was ahuge amount of paper hanging going on...
Heres some more info and a very early video of the first greyline dogs
which includes some footage of the actual dog'chain gangs barney".
this is confusing,i got this info from a guy who was around in los angles
back in the day.....
http://www.geocities.com/greylinekennel/index.html
http://www.freewebs.com/blue-star-kennels/index.htm
and the video of the original dogs..




so what do ya think about that,lol...


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I thought it was purdy interesting stuff... Kinda sh***y that people gotta hang papers to bring up the value of the dogs. Instead of moving forward they just made it even harder to get the breed recognized. I don't like the fact that they've been calling them pits, but there were some sexy beasts in the video!


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Does anyone here have a dog with UKC/ADBA papers that shows Juan Gottis registered ped? I would like to know what the actual ped says not just what has been put up online. They may be the same was just wondering.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

american_pit13 said:


> Does anyone here have a dog with UKC/ADBA papers that shows Juan Gottis registered ped? I would like to know what the actual ped says not just what has been put up online. They may be the same was just wondering.


That's a good idea but it would still be questionable since the reg is full of BS too.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

buzhunter said:


> That's a good idea but it would still be questionable since the reg is full of BS too.


Yeah but I was just wondering what the registries have listed.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

This is raider 2's real fathers ped suppossedly.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=121557
it dosent go back to far....
and heres gotti's.........
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=68594
do they match up???????????????????????????


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

cane76 said:


> This is gotti's real fathers ped suppossedly.
> http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=121557
> it dosent go back to far....
> and heres gotti's.........
> ...


Are you sure? the link you have for Gotti's dad comes up as "PR WESTBROOKS CAMACHO DO GOOD" or are you saying that "Greyline's Raider 2" isn't his real dad?


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

NesOne said:


> Are you sure? the link you have for Gotti's dad comes up as "PR WESTBROOKS CAMACHO DO GOOD" or are you saying that "Greyline's Raider 2" isn't his real dad?


opp's
sorry,gotta edit that,camacho is raider 's father,duh,lol...


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

here is the dog known as cream aka barney that is listed as raider 2's ped as his sire....
























but this dog here is the real father,somebody call Jerry springer,lol..








this dog was 13yrs old in this photo so obviously the health wasnt a issue at this time,or at least with this beast of a dog........


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Is Camacho Do Good the Same Camacho that is the begining of the Camocho line? That guy who owns him is a piece of crap! Dudes wife is a big wig in the UKC. They have these big bullies that aren't close to true and dude buys up litters, has his wife title them, and sells them as his own making a big quick flip! Funny how Camochos are big headed beasts and the pups they sell are pinheads when they get older... Hmmm


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

you can't really go by whats on that website though because their are a bunch of screw ups on there.... but rich of gottiline like i said before is a cool dude but i heard a lot about paper hanging.... there has been a lot of rumors on Blue King's China she has to different peds but she is really out of Short Shaq but it claims she is out of a gottiline or greyline dog i don't know off hand.... And people say West Side Monster isn't off of gotti but off of another male because when Ebony(monster's dam) was bred she was bred to like 3 different males and they were never Dna'd and they just decided to use Gotti's ped....


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

*is this the dog your talking about?*


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

yup that's monster.... he is a beast i have seen him in person. But i feel bad for him though Rich doesn't take good care of him much and he is very agressive the dog is nuts!!!


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

THAT DOG IS *F.A.T.*FAT!!!!!!!!!!,
VERY POORLY BUILT..
Is the line known for h.a?
It is rumored Gotti also bit a guy in the hand...


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

that is a bad pic of him here is a famous pic of him that everyone in the bully world has...

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/pitsnstaffs/MONSTER JO.jpg


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

I think it was monster that bit someone i forgot but Gotti had OK temp when I met him but as for Monster I wouldn't trust him he is soooo agressive he is crazy.... 

Monster is getting old now but is still being bred I feel bad for the dog... That is a bad pic but he is a very nice dog when he was younger but if you saw him right now you wouldn't like it. I saw him for a second time like 1yr ago and he was covered in kennel swores and you know getting old. He is a great producer I think in my mind he out produces Gotti... I just feel bad for the old guy...


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

From what I heard, Gotti broke 3 fingers in a guy's hand when the guy went to pet him. Dude was there to look at Gotti's pups, and ended up buying two of them, even after he got bitten.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

bahamutt99 said:


> From what I heard, Gotti broke 3 fingers in a guy's hand when the guy went to pet him. Dude was there to look at Gotti's pups, and ended up buying two of them, even after he got bitten.


Yep,thats what i heard also...


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

oh yeah, now i remember hearing that... When I saw him he was barking I didn't really pet him he was in his kennel but he calmed down after I was there for awhile. I heard a lot about Monster being aggressive though. I think Rich as them like that because of the area he lives. It was an ok area but you know all the young kids wants to be "thugs" and do dumbshit


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