# Itchy Pup - Need Help Please!!



## Brando999 (Apr 14, 2009)

If you can get through this all - any help/advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated:

Got my little "Brando" at 8.5 weeks old...everything seemed normal while he was with the breeders. He was the biggest one of 10 pups and was a normal little puppy. I took him home with me and had him for a week with no issues whatsoever. 

Then I left for a week to Mexico and let my brother take care of him during this time. When I got home - he was itching like mad. I probably let this continue for a few weeks thinking he would get better. Finally I ended up taking him to the vet about 3 weeks after I first noticed him scratching and gnawing on himself. At this point the worst spots were the top of his paws (redness), his lower arms/legs (red and some sores), his thighs and underarms (red and scabbed).

They took a scraping and confirmed it was demodex - so they gave me some anti-mite medication as well as I was bathing him with their recommended shampoo and leave-in conditioner every 2-3 days. This went on for a week or two and all of his sores/redness cleared up. 

About a week or two later - his fur and skin was really dried out from the baths and he started itching/gnawing on himself again (not as bad as before but still worthy of some concern). I took him back to the vet - they did another scraping and said it was probably not due to the mites because he only had one mite on the sample (said most dogs would have more than that). They said it was likely due to him being dried out from bathing him so much and that it could take a good month for him to get better. They gave me some sort of liquid to put on his food that would replenish his oils.

So probably a week and a half went by, he was still itching/gnawing a little bit, and on Apr 8th I gave him some peanut butter to keep him occupied. The very next day the itching was intense. So intense that he had some hair loss around the bottom of his ribs (on the side) as well as the tops of his paws were red again. 

Anyways - I took him back to the vet the other day and now they are suggesting he might have allergies. So they are suggesting I switch to their prescribed food for dogs with food allergies and said to not feed him anything else.

I'm a little concerned that there are some other things besides his food that are making him itch - so before I switch to the utlra-expensive food that the vet sells - I'm wondering if some of the these things might be affecting him:

-the peanut butter
-I keep him in my basement in a crate when I am not home and since I live in Canada and it is rather cold here in the winter - I keep a space heater no more than a foot away from his crate. It gets rather toasty - so I'm wondering if this might be keeping him dried out and itchy.
-my cat


Any help would be fantastic.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

weeeeellll this is my advice and it's coming from a dog who's allergies are so bad that I have the dog on a course of treatment called Immunotherapy (allergy shots every 10 days). 

Buy the expensive dog food for 2 months. Get him a round of kick ass antibiotics... Ciprofoxacin has worked the best for me. Do you notice any irritation or build up in his ears? if so I would request an ear rinse. When an allergy proned dog has any kind of infection it makes the allergy like symptoms 100% worse. Also request a script from the vet for hydroxazine which is an antahistamine... benadryl acts as a sedative for animals. 

Food allergies generally hit the paws and the head area first. Also Food allergies are the least expensive to treat in the long run. 

I have a ton more advice from my personal trials and errors so feel free to PM me at any time!

BTW Peanuts are a very common allergen to both humans and dogs.

I'm gonna move this thread to the Health and Nutrition section if you don't mind 

After a couple of months of the new diet and he gets better I would switch him to a lamb and rice forumula... nutro naturals have worked just fine for us. I've spent hundreds of dollars on Allergy tests on my one dog. The most accurate test is a skin test. don't waste your money on a blood test if you need to.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

oooohhhh crap i want to add more... Your dog can start having an allergic reaction to something upto 48 hours of coming in contact with something his body doesn't agree with.


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## Brando999 (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks for your comments and advice.

I actually forgot to mention that he has been scratching at his ears as well - they were red and inflamed but has gotten a little bit better.

The last time I was at the vet - they actually recommended prednisone - even though I was really reluctant as I've seen the effects of this drug on my sister who suffers from Crohns. But they gave me this other medication to suppress his immune system that I am cycling 1 day of Prednisone and 2-3 days of this other medication (not sure what it is - starts with an 'a'). I don't want to do this for very long - he has only had 2 days worth of Prednisone.

I'm really hoping that there was some external factors besides any food he has eaten that has made him react this way. Whether that be the peanut butter, the space-heater which has dried him out, or even the leaves on the plant in my house that he likes to chew on.

Thanks again.


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## bLuEpItS86 (Apr 11, 2009)

My Layla is blue and so she has skin problems to and our vet told us to stop giving these peanut butter health bars because of allergies. I was told to switch foods too because of the high level of Barley in it. I also had a Doby and he had horribly dry skin and it was just allergies from the cheap food my parents fed him. Another thing that causes dry flaky skin and sores is a staff infection but if you had scrapings done you should be fine on the end. I would take Neela's advice, seems to know the world of allergies. Just take it in steps tho cause you want to know whats really working. If you load all of those things at once you wont really know what worked. Oh and if the pup is scratching bad and gnawing bad maybe you should get a cone so it cant bite and some booties or something to cover its feet to cause anymore damage.


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## Brando999 (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm also wondering if using Mr Clean to mop up his little area that I have cornered off for him with his crate might be irritating him...maybe I should switch to something else?

Maybe I'm being optimistic - but I'm also hoping that since he's only 4.5 months old that his immune system is not developed enough to combat some of the stuff that is irritating him and that in the next few months he may naturally get better. Wishful thinking probably.

The thing that gets me is he is usually fine if he is occupied with something to do (he won't scratch or gnaw on himself at all) - but since I am working 9-5 and he is alone all day, that is when I think he gets bored and starts scratching/gnawing himself. So for now - whenever I am not with him he wears a cone to prevent this and I just got him a little nylon jacket yesterday to prevent him from using his back legs to scratch at his ribs.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

How long has it been since he was diagnosed with Mange? I but it is the mange and giving him prednisone will decrease his immune system and make the mange worse. It takes weeks to cure mange sometimes months. I have a dog going through that now. You can come up with clean scrapes at the vet but still have a mange problem. IMO if this was my dog I would stop the pred and go back to treating the mange.

Your dog should be on Ivermectine given orally 2x a week. you can get 1% cattle ivermectine from a feed store or order it on line. You can also give benadryl to help with the itching. Mites create an allergic reaction and the benadryl helps allot. You can also dip your dog your self at home 1x a week for around 4-6 weeks. Treatment for mange as bad as your dog has it takes a while it's not something you can cure in 2 weeks. 
If your dog is scratching him self bloody you can put a cone on him so he doesn't scratch his ears and put a teeshirt and tie it in the back to protect his belly. You see with mange it will attack around the face (usually around the side of the face and eyes), the belly and under the armpits and at the chest, and also the ears will flare up sometimes. Unfortunately if vets do not see bad cases all the time they do not know how to treat it. before you wast your money on seeing if it is food allergies you need to treat for the mange get rid of that then move on to something else if it doesn't clear up. It will get worse before it gets better but give it a few weeks. I find that cortisone cream works to help with itching while you are treating mange. I have treated over 20 dogs for mange over the years (most if them rescues) and I have seen it types of cases from the worst of the worst to just a little patch. If you need any more help pm me.

Ivermetcine 1% you can find it cheaper you just have to look but this will give you an idea of what it is. I pay $36 at the feed store for it. This is more than you will use for 1 dog with mange but after your dog is cured from mange you can give it in smaller doses for monthly heartworm prevention. For dosage I need you dogs weight.
Ivomec (1% Ivermectin) for cattle/swine (50 mL)

Dips you can buy and do at home. Way cheaper than doing it at the vets office you just have to be careful not it get it in the eyes of the dog and wear gloves or it might make you itch. You need to ask the seller if they will ship to CA, If they won't ship to CA let me know and I might be able to help you.
Mange Demodex Hairloss Stinky Itchy Skin Dip Mitaba - eBay (item 350179214498 end time Apr-15-09 16:59:58 PDT)

How much does your dog weight? how old is your puppy?


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Brando999 said:


> I'm also wondering if using Mr Clean to mop up his little area that I have cornered off for him with his crate might be irritating him...maybe I should switch to something else?
> 
> Maybe I'm being optimistic - but I'm also hoping that since he's only 4.5 months old that his immune system is not developed enough to combat some of the stuff that is irritating him and that in the next few months he may naturally get better. Wishful thinking probably.
> 
> The thing that gets me is he is usually fine if he is occupied with something to do (he won't scratch or gnaw on himself at all) - but since I am working 9-5 and he is alone all day, that is when I think he gets bored and starts scratching/gnawing himself. So for now - whenever I am not with him he wears a cone to prevent this and I just got him a little nylon jacket yesterday to prevent him from using his back legs to scratch at his ribs.


I hope for your sake he does get better, but around 4-5 months is when my Neela started showing signs of her allergies. I would put him outside while you clean to weed this out. After you clean with your cleaning products follow up with extra water to rinse away any possible irritants.

Prednisone is horrible for long term use. It can cause liver damage. Is the other medication Ammoxacilin (sp?). Also, the Pred even further suppresses the immune system while fighting the inflamation. When you were at the vet did they give him a shot for the inflamation as well?

What diet did they reccomend you get him put on? Neela was on Science Diet D/D Salmon and Potato... it was 90 bucks for a 35 pound bag, but the results from it were amazing. When you switch to a hypo allergenic food like that it gives him time to kinda clear his body from alot of the allergens and as you start adding different things to his diet and enviornment you should be able to kinda figure out what's bad for him. If he continues to be miserable after the change in diet I would see if your vet can do a skin allergy test.

Welcome to the world of buying a dog from a BYBer!


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## Brando999 (Apr 14, 2009)

He was diagnosed with Demodex probably back around the beginning of March.

He doesn't seem to have many issues with his face - only his ears...other than that - his itching is pretty much localized to under his arms and on the sides (ribs). He'll gnaw on the tops of his paws as well as his the inside or back of his arms.

Yeah - I don't think I'll continue with the Pred...today will be his last day.

He's 4.5 months old and weighs about 37lbs (think its about 16.8kg).

Thanks for the advice.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Brando don't just stop the pred. the dog needs to be weened off of it.


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## Brando999 (Apr 14, 2009)

NEELA said:


> I hope for your sake he does get better, but around 4-5 months is when my Neela started showing signs of her allergies. I would put him outside while you clean to weed this out. After you clean with your cleaning products follow up with extra water to rinse away any possible irritants.
> 
> Prednisone is horrible for long term use. It can cause liver damage. Is the other medication Ammoxacilin (sp?). Also, the Pred even further suppresses the immune system while fighting the inflamation. When you were at the vet did they give him a shot for the inflamation as well?
> 
> ...


Thanks again for your help & advice.

Just my luck that out of a litter of 10 pups mine would be the one with the issues. I am definitely done with the Pred - and I'm not sure what the other medication is (I'm at work at the moment). It was basically an alternative to the Pred because me and my wife were very hesitant to give him the Pred at such a young age. The vet said it was an alternative but that it's effectiveness hasn't been tested on dogs under 6 months. He's only had basically one Pred-pill in the last 4 days (half on Sat and half today) - so I don't think it should cause any issues if I stop today.

I'm not sure what exactly the food is either as I'm picking it up tonight - but it was expensive. For a 15kg bag it costs like $120.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

keep me posted on his condition! Good luck!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Brando999 said:


> He was diagnosed with Demodex probably back around the beginning of March.
> 
> He doesn't seem to have many issues with his face - only his ears...other than that - his itching is pretty much localized to under his arms and on the sides (ribs). He'll gnaw on the tops of his paws as well as his the inside or back of his arms.
> 
> ...


If his sides and chest are still itching it's mange I can almost guarantee it. With bad reactions like your dog had it will bring on allergy type symptoms. If your pup never would have been diagnosed with mange I would say allergies
but it has been only around 4 weeks and it looks like mange needs more aggressive treatment. It is an immune system problem so the pred will make the outbreak worse but if he is on pred you need to wean him off. It is not a medication you can just stop. I would do the treatment I listed above. But if you are still worried it is food allergies then out your dog on Z/D from science diet and feed nothing else. But if you are treating for mange at the same time you may not know what is making him better. The mange treatment or the food. I would do one at a time but start with mange since you already know your dog has had that problem.

The dog I have now that is fighting mange has the exact same itchy spots as your dog.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I do have to agree... You should rule out one thing at a time.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Brando999 said:


> Thanks again for your help & advice.
> 
> I'm not sure what exactly the food is either as I'm picking it up tonight - but it was expensive. For a 15kg bag it costs like $120.


IMHO a waste of money since you did not fully treat for mange, Mange can go away on it's own once the pup immune system has re-coved but you might get false results since you are trying to treat 2 different conditions at once.

I am giving you my honest op as a vet tech, breeder, and kennel owner, don't treat for 2 things at once since the original diagnoses mimics allergies. Finish treating that for a few weeks then it it doesn't clear up you know for sure it is allergies. It is your pup so I know you want to do what is best and your wanting quick results but I would reccomend being patient and treating more aggresivly first. Will it hurt your dog to be on 2 different treatments? No but you may get false results.

Also allergies can pop up at anytime but if you got your dog from a breeder who knows the lines and have never had problems it's more than likely not allergies.


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## Brando999 (Apr 14, 2009)

So you guys really think that if I started him on Pred on Saturday and only gave him 1/2 pill that day and another 1/2 pill today that I should ween him off of it? So in total - he's only received 1 full pill in the last 4 days (and none before that). What sort of program do you reccomend for weening?

The vet just left me a msg saying that the food is Royal Canin Hypoallergenic HP.

Is this good or is science diet better or just as adequate?


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Brando I've never had a dog with mange so I would listen to performance until you're 100% certain that it's not the mange anymore. Yes, I would give him a quarter of a pill 2x a day then a quarter the next and you're done. 

IDK about royal canin enough to say yay or nay. I just know that the science diet worked the best for me.


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