# Starting out...



## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

I have been doing some research, reading everything I can on the boards, and posted a little about myself and what Im looking for in the Intro forum to start.

Now I was curious if someone wanted to aquire a dog from a reputable breeder how would one go about finding them locally? I have tried googling and searching on the internet but I have found a lot of BYB's and such and I honestly just dont trust some of what I have foudn in my area. People just randomly selling things with no papers and such.

I would like to meet some local breeders or even find some convention/venue/show of some sort I could look at dogs and talk with people face to face of what they offer and what the lines are like. 

I have found all the local shelters and will be going to them in the next few weeks to see what the shelters have to offer bcause I have nothing against rescuing a dog but would also like to find some breeders for a pup down the road.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

where abouts are you located? might be able to help a bit more if we know that and we could direct you to people in your area and upcomming shows around you to check out.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

My apologies Im located in New Jersey


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

if youve got the money to spend i have a couple good options for you. 

lou colby lives in MA and still breeds dogs. he will ship a puppy to you but hes said that he prefer someone come pick one up. if youve got 800 bucks to spend on a dog you cant go wrong with a pure colby bred by the man himself. if you dont know much about colby dogs, do a search online. wonderful animals. 

my next recommendation is tom garner. hes located in north carolina so again, it would be a drive for you. most garner pups cost 900 and they are well worth it. tom will ship to you but i would never recommend shipping a puppy. not only does it cost quite a bit but it can have psychological effects on the pup. do some research on tom if you like, hes got some fine animals. 

if neither of those options suits you, check out the websites for the dog registries. if youre more into the traditional american pit bull terrier, look on adba's website and search for shows in your area. if you prefer the stockier, bully type dog, look into UKC shows. go to a show and youre sure to meet someone breeding decent dogs.

hope this helps.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

rob32 said:


> if youve got the money to spend i have a couple good options for you.
> 
> _lou colby lives in MA and still breeds dogs. _he will ship a puppy to you but hes said that he prefer someone come pick one up. if youve got 800 bucks to spend on a dog *you cant go wrong with a pure colby bred by the man himself*. if you dont know much about colby dogs, do a search online. wonderful animals.
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

covered all the basics.. Props to Deadbolt for becoming mindfull of the breed before purchasing.. Shelter dogs are a great choice of temperment tested APBTs needing a good home but unless surrendered with papers you merely have an APBT so can't really ask anyone "whats my dog" make sense? If you want a sure deal "fastlane" dogs are all up and down the coast and Rob shot you as strait as it gets... Good Luck! Happy New Years!!!


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Kudos to the wonderful posts guys.

I would start out by visiting shows in your area. I believe there are a few out your way. I know that Patch o Pits is in your area you might talk to her as she has been around pits along time. Good luck and again I applaud you for doing your homework first.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> Kudos to the wonderful posts guys.
> 
> I would start out by visiting shows in your area. I believe there are a few out your way. I know that Patch o Pits is in your area you might talk to her as she has been around pits along time. Good luck and again I applaud you for doing your homework first.


I second that. The Tri state APBT club is the ADBA club out there and they have some great people very knowledgeable. and have some of the best show dogs in the country. I would attend some shows and approach them. See what kind of advise they will give you.
Good luck.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

Thanks for all the help guys and gals...I will look into everything you guys have mentioned. 

As for tri-boro their PO box is listed only 10 minutes away from me...I dropped them an email last night. Hopefully I will hear from them and I could hook up with them at some point and learn some hands on knowledge.

Again thanks for all the info...back to researching!


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

Deadbolt said:


> Thanks for all the help guys and gals...I will look into everything you guys have mentioned.
> 
> As for tri-boro their PO box is listed only 10 minutes away from me...I dropped them an email last night. Hopefully I will hear from them and I could hook up with them at some point and learn some hands on knowledge.
> 
> Again thanks for all the info...back to researching!


Hello all. I have not signed on for a while.

Garner and Colby have the real McCoy :rofl: . No show Staffys and no new age Bullies.

Most are good house dogs. Just keep in mind their parents, for the most part, were not house dogs.

My friend has a Colby dog. He is super! A little short and wide for me, but he is way cool. 100% bull dog. Atlas is a nice brindle. He was not socialized with other dogs and is very DA. The dog is a good house dog (he has 3 boys to watch over). He is a little high strung, due to his young age, personality, or not enough exercise.

Tom Garner is a big piece of history. Now and then I heard that some pups have come out shy. Just keep that in mind. If you talk with him I am sure you could pick out a pup good for you.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

NorCalTim said:


> Hello all. I have not signed on for a while.
> 
> Garner and Colby have the real McCoy :rofl: . No show Staffys and no new age Bullies.
> 
> ...


Thanks for an honest reply I appreciate it! Always something to keep in mind.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

NorCalTim said:


> Hello all. I have not signed on for a while.
> 
> Garner and Colby have the real McCoy :rofl: . No show Staffys and no new age Bullies.
> 
> ...


my garner pup is very shy but, only around people she doesnt know. she has been great with me and my family. he does have some shy pups so that is something you would have to take into account when you go to pick out one of your own.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

rob32 said:


> my garner pup is very shy but, only around people she doesnt know. she has been great with me and my family. he does have some shy pups so that is something you would have to take into account when you go to pick out one of your own.


Thank you. A shy dog would not fair well with me...I am very outgoing and am always putting myself in new places with new people and I would need a dog to keep up with that and not be afraid of jumping in head first to new situations.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

Deadbolt said:


> Thank you. A shy dog would not fair well with me...I am very outgoing and am always putting myself in new places with new people and I would need a dog to keep up with that and not be afraid of jumping in head first to new situations.


not all of his dogs are shy around people. its just a trait that pops up from time to time. when u pick out a puppy, from anyone, just make sure its not shy before you take it home. i definitely wouldnt rule out a dog from garner because some of his pups are shy.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

First of all what are your plans for this pup? Do you just want a family pet? Or are you looking at using the pup for working purposes? The best place to find a reputable breeder would be to hit up some local ADBA/UKC shows. I don't know if starting off with a straight up bulldog would be the best thing how much exp do you have with the breed in general? Is there a particular reason you are seeking out a papered dog? Bulldogs AKA game bred dogs are very high strung and require a certain level care. They tend to be extremely Animal Aggressive especially with other dogs. Are you prepared to deal with that long term? I am not one for sending a newbie of the breed under the bus caring for bulldogs is a big responsibility and requires enough yard space and security as well as some basic knowledge. I am just trying to get a better idea of what your looking for in a dog and what your plans are longterm?


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Sade did you check out his other thread? He wants a dog that is a cmpanion but will be active with him for hiking and what not as he is a body builder and very much exercise.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

Sadie said:


> First of all what are your plans for this pup? Do you just want a family pet? Or are you looking at using the pup for working purposes? The best place to find a reputable breeder would be to hit up some local ADBA/UKC shows. I don't know if starting off with a straight up bulldog would be the best thing how much exp do you have with the breed in general? Is there a particular reason you are seeking out a papered dog? Bulldogs AKA game bred dogs are very high strung and require a certain level care. They tend to be extremely Animal Aggressive especially with other dogs. Are you prepared to deal with that long term? I am not one for sending a newbie of the breed under the bus caring for bulldogs is a big responsibility and requires enough yard space and security as well as some basic knowledge. I am just trying to get a better idea of what your looking for in a dog and what your plans are longterm?


I havent owned one myself but my parents owned a pit when I was a child.

Honestly I must ask why do you ask of so much long term? I wouldnt be researching and preparing so far in advance to buy a dog and get rid of it in 6 months... dont know many people who would. I plan on buying the dog and keeping it until it dies.

As for my ability to take care of the dog I have plenty of experience training DOGS many different breeds including several pit mixes. Though Ive never owned them I have trained some in the past. If I can train and build field trial champion labs and german short haired pointers I think I can handle a pit. If you doubt this then you have never trained field trial dogs.

My plans are to have the dog primarily as a fmily member I will not be showing or competing with the dog but I will be training it. I am not against adoptions my last 2 dogs have been adopted but with buying from a reputable breeder with papers I know exactly what Im getting. There are years and years of paperwork to prove the lineage of the blood which includes health problems, problemed traits (or traits bred out). Papers are insurance...far fewer surprises when you can see the entire bloodline on paper and you know more what you are getting yourself into.

I will be visiting all my local shelters but if they are all like the one I visited today I can assure you I will not be adopting a dog because they are very miserable angry people especially towards those who want to aquire the pitbulls. And quote "only scum own pitbulls" that was from the mouth of the manager. I doubt that dog is getting treated very fairly there.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I asked because Bulldogs are not only a long term commitment that are also a very popular breed that most people just own just because they are popular without having one clue about the breed in general. When they end up getting one they realize they chewed off more than they could handle. The dog ends up being bred irresponsibly or ends up attacking another dog or worse a human( if the dog is truly unstable). I am just saying these dogs are not for the faint hearted they really are a high maintenance breed that requires some knowledge and understanding that most people fail to posses prior to owning the breed. That is why I asked what your long term plans were and how much exp you actually had with bulldogs before jumping right in and getting a game bred dog which is much different that a mixed PIT lol . It's fair game you posted asking for help I asked questions because people were directing you straight to game bred dogs I wanted to know your exp IMO unless you have been around the breed for at least 10+ years you are still a green horn. But that's just my opinion. 

If you have no plans on working your dog or showing it honestly there is no need to own a game bred dog. I would continue to look through your local shelters as they are over crowded anyway with pit bulls. If you want a good show bred or working dog you will find them with show/working dog breeders best place to find those types of breeder's is at the shows. But most working/show dogs do best when they are being heavily worked on a regular basis so if you plan on keeping the dog active on a regular basis that is the best thing ... A good bulldog is a tired bulldog. This breed is unlike any other regardless of how much training exp you have with other breeds. And training bulldogs REAL bulldogs is much different than working with mixed pitbulls .. Pitbull is not a breed it's a term that used to label 30+ breeds. Bulldogs are the APBT they stem from box dogs (fighting dogs) you haven't owned owned a bulldog until you have owned a game dog/game bred dog. 

Good Luck to you ...


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

DB,I,in my laymans opinion would like to share.
what sadie mentioned,that gave you pause,is A very valid point.
so valid,that when you go to the rescues your going to see many,and from here on out,with your interest in the breed,once getting one are going to become more privy to the info she mentioned regarding turn ins.
it's like getting A Vega car,they are obsolete,yet should you go buy one,your going to see others.
we've heardit, and have been refering it to turn-ins returns,volunteer return.
pits get real strong real quick.some folks are overwhelmed by this.even grown men.
she wasn't taking your inventory,just stating A fact,she just happened to be the first to say it.
many of the folks here bend over backwards to find homes,rides to homes temporary homes to stop kills of otherwise perfect dogs.they're rightfully going to express their curiosity.
I again commend you for going to A shelter,not being obsessed with A papered and in tact dog.
you are the perfect candidate because of the measures you've taken so far.
if my female was 3 or so,as she was when I re-addopted her,I'd send her to you.she would be the dog your looking for.I don't mince words,you've impressed me,and some others here,peace and good will to you on your search.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

dang grfren,you type fizasTTT!!!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Thank WW ... You always tell it like it is


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Sadie said:


> Thank WW ... You always tell it like it is


it's relative to paralell important info.when we don't it brings that negative personality side we ALL have to light.
as we were talking about in VIP,being each others eyes and ears.the theraputic value of one buller helping another.


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

Deadbolt said:


> I have been doing some research, reading everything I can on the boards, and posted a little about myself and what Im looking for in the Intro forum to start.
> 
> Now I was curious if someone wanted to aquire a dog from a reputable breeder how would one go about finding them locally? I have tried googling and searching on the internet but I have found a lot of BYB's and such and I honestly just dont trust some of what I have foudn in my area. People just randomly selling things with no papers and such.
> 
> ...


Many "Pit Bulls" that are papered are mixed breed. They still make great dogs and are for the most part Bull Dogs. That is just the way it is. All true APBTs' are game bred, otherwise they would not be an APBT.

This breed was bred for the hidden trait of gameness (which can possibly be lost in about 3 generations or less - just my opinion from my readings, etc. I would never want to see a dog fight, however this is how they were proven game).

99.9% of game dogs are human friendly (and over half of them are cat friendly when raised in the house with them. Go figure ha ha). Its a great reason to get a pure bred. It takes an exceptional owner to own an APBT.

If they were not human friendly, they would be culled (there were exceptions, however the culling of human aggressive dogs was done a heck of a lot more than most breeds). Owners would not want to risk a dog biting them. Most handlers were with in inches of their APBT when matched. Because of the gambling aspect of this breed, sometimes they were sold and needed to be generally friendly with their new owner. The game bred APBT protected the family (ie. children).

So what? Well the UKC was founded to have a set of established pit rules for the APBT. Down the line the ADBA (American Dog Breeders Association) pretty much was the MAIN REGISTER for game bred dogs. The UKC became more show/Staffy with many great looking Bull Dogs. Up until the mid 70s' (when pitting became illegal) most game bred dogs were ADBA. I would keep that in mind when deciding what type of Bull Dog you want. Papers are only are good as the trust you have in the breeder! I see mixed breed pit bulls DNA profiled. :flush: That is fine. DNA profiled as what.

Have fun in your search.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

Sadie said:


> I asked because Bulldogs are not only a long term commitment that are also a very popular breed that most people just own just because they are popular without having one clue about the breed in general. When they end up getting one they realize they chewed off more than they could handle. The dog ends up being bred irresponsibly or ends up attacking another dog or worse a human( if the dog is truly unstable). I am just saying these dogs are not for the faint hearted they really are a high maintenance breed that requires some knowledge and understanding that most people fail to posses prior to owning the breed. That is why I asked what your long term plans were and how much exp you actually had with bulldogs before jumping right in and getting a game bred dog which is much different that a mixed PIT lol . It's fair game you posted asking for help I asked questions because people were directing you straight to game bred dogs I wanted to know your exp IMO unless you have been around the breed for at least 10+ years you are still a green horn. But that's just my opinion.
> 
> If you have no plans on working your dog or showing it honestly there is no need to own a game bred dog. I would continue to look through your local shelters as they are over crowded anyway with pit bulls. If you want a good show bred or working dog you will find them with show/working dog breeders best place to find those types of breeder's is at the shows. But most working/show dogs do best when they are being heavily worked on a regular basis so if you plan on keeping the dog active on a regular basis that is the best thing ... A good bulldog is a tired bulldog. This breed is unlike any other regardless of how much training exp you have with other breeds. And training bulldogs REAL bulldogs is much different than working with mixed pitbulls .. Pitbull is not a breed it's a term that used to label 30+ breeds. Bulldogs are the APBT they stem from box dogs (fighting dogs) you haven't owned owned a bulldog until you have owned a game dog/game bred dog.
> 
> Good Luck to you ...


I can see just from your comments that you must get many of these questions from random people and they treat it lightly....I can tell you right now and would appreciate it if you would sink it in that I am NOT that person. I wouldn't come to ask of a breed just to "jump in" for giggles. I have stated before I research everything through properly before doing anything.

I can also see by your comments you have no idea what form of training I have done since you comepletly by passed all my words and zero'd in on my "pit mix" comment. Im not here degrading the breed I'm trying to promote it. As stated before if you have never trained award winning field dogs you have no idea what training a dog really is. Everything isn't black and white there are different breeds of dogs and different training and jsut because they aren't bulldogs doesnt make my training inferior so please dont think that.

As for my experience with bulldogs if I or anyone took your advice no one would ever own one because you seem to say stay away from the breed all together and shun others from wanting papered dogs because we are inferior to you and your experience. Its like applying for your first credit card...all companies say you dont have enough credit to get adredit card but the main wa to do it is with a credit card.

As for my preference in papered vs not i have stated my reasining why I would want it before but I never once said i was opposed to adopting and it is still an option. Why do people own sports cars and not race them? Why do people spend so much on their looks and presence and not act or perform? Why do people play sports and not go pro? Why because there is a hidden reason within whether we just want it, its what we enjoy, or it has a sense of security or ease of mind to it.

Why do people pay me as a personal trainer vs the joe next to me? Because I have papers saying Im certified and in essense I'm better. Just because I dont want to show my dog or enter it in competitions doesnt mean i dont want to train it as if I were going to. Some people want the best for their own reason. Mine is I like to know what Im getting and frankly I do enough competitions amongst myself and the people I train that I dont need to prove my dog is better or worse than anyone else. But you can rest assure my dog will train as if he were going to be show day in and out.

I appreciate your tips and words of wisdom but I am fully aware of what I am getting into and this is the reason I am here. As for your bias on your type of dogs hey so be it. I run into this battle with every hobby I do and there are always the elit out there. My hat goes off to you for thinking your breed is the only true working dog. The olympics are made u of many events yet every athlete in there is still just that....an athlete. My dogs may not be able to pull a house or hang for 20 minutes but I'm sure your bulldogs cant run my blind trials with a triple blind mark with no faults.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

william williamson said:


> DB,I,in my laymans opinion would like to share.
> what sadie mentioned,that gave you pause,is A very valid point.
> so valid,that when you go to the rescues your going to see many,and from here on out,with your interest in the breed,once getting one are going to become more privy to the info she mentioned regarding turn ins.
> it's like getting A Vega car,they are obsolete,yet should you go buy one,your going to see others.
> ...


 I 100% understand where most of you are coming from and regard to caring for the breed but furthermore the animal itself. I know many people do not research or do their homework and get in over their heads but I am not one of them. I guess I need to put that in my signature to make sure everyone understands that about me eh?


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

NorCalTim said:


> Many "Pit Bulls" that are papered are mixed breed. They still make great dogs and are for the most part Bull Dogs. That is just the way it is. All true APBTs' are game bred, otherwise they would not be an APBT.
> 
> This breed was bred for the hidden trait of gameness (which can possibly be lost in about 3 generations or less - just my opinion from my readings, etc. I would never want to see a dog fight, however this is how they were proven game).
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info!! I appreciate it.

I just the other day was reading up on that exact point and the history of it and enjoyed that reading.

Along with my research of the breed I also research the breeders and their lines. Once I settle in on a few breeders I feel bad for them because the bombardment of questions will most certainly overwhelm them.

For now its researching lines, styles, and narrowing down to what I will be able to safely and properly do.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Deadbolt said:


> I 100% understand where most of you are coming from and regard to caring for the breed but furthermore the animal itself. I know many people do not research or do their homework and get in over their heads but I am not one of them. I guess I need to put that in my signature to make sure everyone understands that about me eh?


not necessarily sir,often we recognize the camel in the distance,don't hold us either in ill guile because we look through binoculars.
all of us were curiosly guarded,as we are with everyone.yet we jade no one.
we need you,to need one of our cherished dogs.
and personally, from my days in the back,of being fit,I wouldn't take A hand from just any schlep in the gym.
how someone straps,and handles weights,if they replace them properly,do they towel a bench while they stretch for 10 min. how they execute motion,etc. etc. 
your presence here comforts the way I feel because you cared enough to show the heck up.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Deadbolt said:


> I can see just from your comments that you must get many of these questions from random people and they treat it lightly....I can tell you right now and would appreciate it if you would sink it in that I am NOT that person. I wouldn't come to ask of a breed just to "jump in" for giggles. I have stated before I research everything through properly before doing anything.
> 
> I can also see by your comments you have no idea what form of training I have done since you comepletly by passed all my words and zero'd in on my "pit mix" comment. Im not here degrading the breed I'm trying to promote it. As stated before if you have never trained award winning field dogs you have no idea what training a dog really is. Everything isn't black and white there are different breeds of dogs and different training and jsut because they aren't bulldogs doesnt make my training inferior so please dont think that.
> 
> ...


My Friend 99% of the population has no business owning bulldogs because most people don't have the common sense and the education needed to own these dogs the less people who own them the better JMO. Most people who own them don't even accept the history of this breed they figure out what these dogs are all about after their dog shows DA for the first time and attacks the neighborhood dog. Paper's mean Jack ... they are only as good as the dog makes them  they will tell you one thing how your dogs bred but if your dog doesn't live up to the dogs in the pedigree they are really pointless . And any respected dog man or woman would agree. I don't care anything about your training methods and what you train or how you train. It means absolutely nothing to me. My concern is for the breed itself I am not going to tell a new comer to this breed to run out and pick up a game bred dog without asking some questions first. I asked questions to get a better idea of your of ownership experience. Bulldogs are are bred for one purpose 4 corners(box) and gameness. They are not field dogs they are box dogs. So there you have it. You can train them to do virtually anything but you can't train out gameness it's genetically and bred into them. I am not trying to get into a pissing match with you over it you asked a question I asked mine. The APBT is the ULTIMATE working dog if you know anything about gameness and the history of the breed you would agree with me on that. The bulldog can EXCEL at any working sport. We have a few trainers here who work their dogs in Schutzhund, Police Training, Hunting, Agility, Weight Pull, Obedience training, Herding, Conformation showing, ect ... I never said you shouldn't own a papered dog you have completely missed the boat on most of my posts I asked WHY you wanted to own a papered dog to get an idea of what direction you were headed. So please don't put words in my mouth. This is a public forum you came here looking for opinions and advice from strangers if you can't accept the differences of opinions, questions asked, then maybe you shouldn't ask questions period. I asked very valid questions to get an idea of your exp and the direction you were heading with this new dog you were thinking of adding to your family ... I am just giving you my prospective take it or leave it. This forum is full of responsible educated owner's all working to keep this breed safe.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

Sadie said:


> My Friend 99% of the population has no business owning bulldogs because most people don't have the common sense and the education needed to own these dogs. Most people who own them don't even accept the history of this breed they figure out what these dogs are all about after their dog shows DA for the first time and attacks the neighborhood dog. Paper's mean Jack ... they are only as good as the dog makes them  they will tell you one thing how your dogs bred but if your dog doesn't live up to the dogs in the pedigree they are really pointless . And any respected dog man or woman would agree. I don't care anything about your training methods and what you train or how you train. It means absolutely nothing to me. My concern is for the breed itself I am not going to tell a new comer to this breed to run out and pick up a game bred dog without asking some questions first. Bulldogs are are bred for one purpose 4 corners(box) and gameness. They are not field dogs they are box dogs. So there you have it. You can train them to do virtually anything but you can't train out gameness it's genetically and instinctively bred into them. I am not trying to get into a pissing match with you over it you asked a question I asked mine. The APBT is the ULTIMATE working dog if you had any clue about gameness and the history of the breed you would agree with me on that. The bulldog can EXCEL at any working sport. We have a few trainers here who work their dogs in Schutzhund, Police Training, Hunting, Agility, Weight Pull, Obedience training, Herding, Conformation showing, ect ... I never said you shouldn't own a papered dog you have completely missed the boat on most of my posts I asked WHY you wanted to own a papered dog to get an idea of what direction you were headed. So please don't put words in my mouth. This is a public forum you came here looking for opinions and advice from strangers if you can't accept the differences of opinions, questions asked, then maybe you shouldn't ask questions period. I asked very valid questions to get an idea of your exp and the direction you were going with your new pup ... I am just giving you my prospective take it or leave it. This forum is full of responsible educated owner's all working to keep this breed safe.


 I will agree with you that 100% of the dog breeds shouldnt be owned by 99% of the people who own them...if the reasoning is to use the dog for its intended purpose yes 99% of all dogs do not get worked properly.

I never said I wanted a papered dog I just said it was an option. I would rather own an adopted dog simply for my track record with them. My best dogs have bee rescued.

I dont expect you to embrace me with open arms and i wasn't giving you my resume I was simply telling you that Im not new to dogs or training. I am sure you get plenty of inexperienced individuals that dont know much and just want a dog and I understand you are looking out for the breed. I cvan see a sence of hostility and that is what erks me because I have done nothing to you. I undestand you are passionate about your dogs and the breed but I just felt there were other ways of approaching someone.

As for you constantly assuming I'm ignorant you can probably drop that already. No I'm no veteran as yourself and I dont have 10+ years of hands on time but no one is perfect eh? I never once disputed the history or the gameness of the breed so please stop bringing that up because you are simply arguing with yourself on that point. There are only so many hours in a day for me to read on the breed hence the reason I have started my research early prior to owning bulldog.

Enjoy your night I'll continue my research so as to one day aspire to be a bulldog pro.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

william williamson said:


> not necessarily sir,often we recognize the camel in the distance,don't hold us either in ill guile because we look through binoculars.
> all of us were curiosly guarded,as we are with everyone.yet we jade no one.
> we need you,to need one of our cherished dogs.
> and personally, from my days in the back,of being fit,I wouldn't take A hand from just any schlep in the gym.
> ...


Thanks...

I guess once I have my dog and can show I can walk to walk others will come around. Hopefully it wil be sooner than later to sway the nay sayers that others can own the breed as well and hold up to everyones standards.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

personally, i have a tough time telling someone to get just any old "pitbull" dog. i know id be pissed if everyone recommended to me any breeder breeding anything besides legit APBT dogs. if someone asks me where to get a dog, i tell em where they can get a good one. its up to them to step up to the plate and take care of it.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I am not trying to come off hostile I apologize if I gave you that impression I honestly care very much for these dogs. My issue is not with you I was honestly trying to help you. I am very passionate because the breed I love and own is in great danger due to irresponsible owners and there are MANY out there. I admire that you are asking questions and are wanting to learn more about the breed. Which is why I was asking so many question to begin with to get a better understanding of where to direct you. I don't know you so I have no idea what type of owner you are and what your experience level is or what your goals are longterm with the dog you plan on adding so I asked the questions I did they are very relevant YOU seemed to get offended by me asking. So if I offended you in any way by offering my advice I am sorry those were not my intentions. You can't just expect to come on a dog forum as a new member for everyone here to know your background and your breed exp. I can't read your mind I asked the questions I would ask anyone looking to add a working dog to their family. I just happen to believe these dogs should not be owned by just anyone but here again it's JMO. I do wish you the best of luck in finding the perfect dog to suite your needs.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

rob32 said:


> personally, i have a tough time telling someone to get just any old "pitbull" dog. i know id be pissed if everyone recommended to me any breeder breeding anything besides legit APBT dogs. if someone asks me where to get a dog, i tell em where they can get a good one. its up to them to step up to the plate and take care of it.


Rob I have a hard time telling a newbie to run and get a bulldog we have too many issues with the breed/BSL to be putting these dogs in the hands of newbies. I feel very strongly about that. That's just my Opinion though.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Sadie said:


> Rob I have a hard time telling a newbie to run and get a bulldog we have too many issues with the breed/BSL to be putting these dogs in the hands of newbies. I feel very strongly about that. That's just my Opinion though.


are you kidding?
i'd be willing to bet,because we see so in depth to the needs of our breed,I'd be willing to bet we see more clearly whether some folks should have any dog at all.
to many times folks are shallow, and use pets to fill needy or social status roles in their lives.
in recovery they tell us to get a plant for A year if it don't die,get A dog,if you can keep and love it for A year,maybe then you're worthy of A relationship.
I'm in a home where the first dog the family owns is HA,it p's allo over,then they get the 10 year old girl a long hair chihoo-hoo.to mke da widdle baby happy. and they're already sluffing it off on others.it was brought home the 24th,they know just how I feel,and I'm not kind to the feelings of any of them.ignorance and co-signing don't fly on my watch.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

william williamson said:


> are you kidding?
> i'd be willing to bet,because we see so in depth to the needs of our breed,I'd be willing to bet we see more clearly whether some folks should have any dog at all.
> to many times folks are shallow, and use pets to fill needy or social status roles in their lives.
> in recovery they tell us to get a plant for A year if it don't die,get A dog,if you can keep and love it for A year,maybe then you're worthy of A relationship.
> I'm in a home where the first dog the family owns is HA,it p's allo over,then they get the 10 year old girl a long hair chihoo-hoo.to mke da widdle baby happy. and they're already sluffing it off on others.it was brought home the 24th,they know just how I feel,and I'm not kind to the feelings of any of them.ignorance and co-signing don't fly on my watch.


William I don't believe these dogs belong in the hands of unexperienced owners. I would never send a new owner of the breed to Tom Garner's yard to get a pup. IMO it's a privilege to own these dogs not a right. People who don't have any exp dealing with bulldogs IMO have no business owning them It wasn't until the breed became extremely popular that we started having the problems we have now. Now people buy these dogs just to own one. That is a very scary thought IMO.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

Sadie said:


> I am not trying to come off hostile I apologize if I gave you that impression I honestly care very much for these dogs. My issue is not with you I was honestly trying to help you. I am very passionate because the breed I love and own is in great danger due to irresponsible owners and there are MANY out there. I admire that you are asking questions and are wanting to learn more about the breed. Which is why I was asking so many question to begin with to get a better understanding of where to direct you. I don't know you so I have no idea what type of owner you are and what your experience level is or what your goals are longterm with the dog you plan on adding so I asked the questions I did they are very relevant YOU seemed to get offended by me asking. So if I offended you in any way by offering my advice I am sorry those were not my intentions. You can't just expect to come on a dog forum as a new member for everyone here to know your background and your breed exp. I can't read your mind I asked the questions I would ask anyone looking to add a working dog to their family. I just happen to believe these dogs should not be owned by just anyone but here again it's JMO. I do wish you the best of luck in finding the perfect dog to suite your needs.


I apologize if we got started off on the wrong foot that was not my intention. I appreciate that you care so much for the breed more people need ot be passionate about things as yourself.

Thank you for the advice and help on the breed. I will continue my research and hopefully get to have more hands on experience with true APBT's.

There are numerous razoredge and other similar knock offs in my parts and people just want to own them to look cool. You dont see any real working dogs in my area but a trainer I know does own a garner and I will be getting together with her and her pup to see how he works and how the breed is.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

rob32 said:


> personally, i have a tough time telling someone to get just any old "pitbull" dog. i know id be pissed if everyone recommended to me any breeder breeding anything besides legit APBT dogs. if someone asks me where to get a dog, i tell em where they can get a good one. its up to them to step up to the plate and take care of it.





Sadie said:


> Rob I have a hard time telling a newbie to run and get a bulldog we have too many issues with the breed/BSL to be putting these dogs in the hands of newbies. I feel very strongly about that. That's just my Opinion though.


I can see both sides of this and understand where the both of you are coming from. I appreciate the honesty and the good direction.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Sadie said:


> William I don't believe these dogs belong in the hands of unexperienced owners. I would never send a new owner of the breed to Tom Garner's yard to get a pup. IMO it's a privilege to own these dogs not a right. People who don't have any exp dealing with bulldogs IMO have no business owning them It wasn't until the breed became extremely popular that we started having the problems we have now. Now people buy these dogs just to own one. That is a very scary thought IMO.


I was speaking to ANY dog at all in general.we survive pit bull horror stories,which in turn makes us so much more adherant to listening to and for any traumatic situation involving any 4 legged.
some,actually many folk don't belong with A water or food bowl of any type.
when we picked up strays, vetted them and farmed them out,it was any dog or cat we could get in the truck,car,or trap in a crate.
my breed specificity is in ownership.rescue,I'll take anything homeless.

also,when I got my first pit,in 1978 I had no clue as to what I had,period.so I asked around,found some cubans from the chicken world who also had game dogs and started my education.back then in Miami their weren't many guys.the ones who had them were deep in with the carribean and south america so quickly I learned alot.
then moved to NC, and that was it.
the thing I'm saying now is that it happens, and with some success.sadly the status symbolism of pits wasn't an issue back then.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Deadbolt said:


> I apologize if we got started off on the wrong foot that was not my intention. I appreciate that you care so much for the breed more people need ot be passionate about things as yourself.
> 
> Thank you for the advice and help on the breed. I will continue my research and hopefully get to have more hands on experience with true APBT's.
> 
> There are numerous razoredge and other similar knock offs in my parts and people just want to own them to look cool. You dont see any real working dogs in my area but a trainer I know does own a garner and I will be getting together with her and her pup to see how he works and how the breed is.


I understand Thank You for hearing me out ... I am sure as someone who does field training you will be very impressed by the ability of a true bulldog. They truly are an all around working dog and with the proper training can excel at virtually everything. Let us know if we can do anything else to assist you.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

just given ya'll props.. cant rep ya anymore until I spread the love.. all good stuff.. 

My first APBT was Hooch from Holts Jocko, and yeah.. he cost me lots of money, and explainations to the ACO and PO on duty in many cities, towns, and states.. Most people would have gotten rid of Hooch a long time ago, but picture a 70lbs Freak of nature that put me through the same sht as the dog with the pen name of "jocko" that stratton writes about. LOL He put me in some sht... I was raised southern, and military; which means I tell on myself, and I am accountable for my responsiblities  I love that dog and trust that dead dog more than any ONE person; gme the chane to do it again, I'd pick the smallest female in the litter, she topped at 35lbs, Hooch was the Freak looked like a piglet compared to the others.. NOT ALL 1st time APBT owners will hang in there fixing what they do wrong. 

NEWBIES should just get a rescue.. JMO from that they can base education on experience of an APBT with no paperwork just the dog in the raw, gonna make ya or break ya.. 

But ya'll covered ALL the bases... Nuff said :x


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL you want to borrow some rep points? hehehehe Well said FH


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Rob I have a hard time telling a newbie to run and get a bulldog we have too many issues with the breed/BSL to be putting these dogs in the hands of newbies. I feel very strongly about that. That's just my Opinion though.


i really cant blame you and in most cases i agree. i just know how i would feel if it were me and everyone assumed i couldnt handle a dog and sent me to get some couch potato bully dog instead of the real deal. i was just feelin nice when i told the guy where to get real bulldogs. i know if i came on here, did some research and asked for opinions i would want the same respect.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL I am not saying he should get a bully I was saying he should adopt for what he wants to do with his dog he wants a pet plenty of good shelter pets that need homes. I here you though everyone starts of somewhere I started off with un papered mutts years ago. And I moved up from there. Now I own bulldogs. Nothing wrong with taking your time and gaining exp over time before you jump right into the real deal ... because the real is is a lot of dog and a liability to the wrong owner that is why I was asking the questions I asked in the beginning. And TG has some well bred hounds you are right about that if I wanted a well bred bulldog he would be one of the potential breeder's on the list.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I got many pups back, and my dogs were nicknamed firehazard by peeps who thought they had game bred dogs, LOL Id get 6mos old dogs back from devouring other dogs of good blood in kennel fights and such accidents. So I let my cousin use the name for a kennel that never took off because they werent ready for all the dogs from my stock I was gettin back that they thought they were. 

you hit the nail on the head with liability and a lot of dog.. 

lots of good stuff but not for the beginning novice... LOL unless they are prepared to hold on through one hell of a ride.. cause they are gonna learn through experience aka the hard way.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Firehazard said:


> I got many pups back, and my dogs were nicknamed firehazard by peeps who thought they had game bred dogs, LOL Id get 6mos old dogs back from devouring other dogs of good blood in kennel fights and such accidents. So I let my cousin use the name for a kennel that never took off because they werent ready for all the dogs from my stock I was gettin back that they thought they were.
> 
> you hit the nail on the head with liability and a lot of dog..
> 
> lots of good stuff but not for the beginning novice... LOL unless they are prepared to hold on through one hell of a ride.. cause they are gonna learn through experience aka the hard way.


them dogs that are similar to to the yeller feller?


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

yeah... those are the ones...


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks FH I am glad you get me I really was trying to help the OP I don't always come off all warm and fuzzy but I am honest and I mean well.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Firehazard said:


> yeah... those are the ones...


I was there back then,even sat on his barrel. and saw alot of dogs off him or one breeding out, go like banshees.
look up Jacobs assasin,1 and 2,littermates.


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## Deadbolt (Dec 30, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Thanks FH I am glad you get me I really was trying to help the OP I don't always come off all warm and fuzzy but I am honest and I mean well.


 :cheers:


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Well I read through all posts Wheh!! Ok heres my opinion... This breed should only be owned by people who have RESPONSIBLE experience with them and their mentality or someone who is completely dedicated to making a positive influence on the breed... 

I am one of those that agrees with Sadie as I do not believe this breed is for everyone and in fact I think that the only people that deserve to own this breed are those who are willing to fight to the death for them as they are willing to do for us...

To the OP: if you truly want a "game bred" dog then do a year or so or more of research as to what a game bred dog really is and go into it knowing that you may not be able to own another animal while you have that dog... Also know that not only do responsible owners fight BSL everyday to keep our dogs but we also fight and deal with the dirty looks from others in pet supply stores, harassment from neighbors who dislike the breed, harassment from animal control, dirty looks while walking our dogs in our own neighborhoods, stupid questions on a regular basis from uneducated idiots and many many others irritating and angering things... We do this because we love our dogs as much as they love us...

My inlaws have never been exposed to the breed along with my husband before I came into their lives... They didnt really have an opinion one way or the other on this breed but they of course see the news and hear the media stereotypes... 

My husband (now that he has his own bully breed) has vowed to me he will never own another breed... lol after one year with one dog!!!

My mother-in-law always seemed very nervous around our dogs (we have two bully breeds) but over Christmas and New Years she spent a lot of time at my house and she told me before she left on New Years Day "Brooke I have to say that your dogs are amazing, I have never seen a breed steal someone's heart and never let go. All other breeds (and they have an American Eskimo) are loved by their owners but nothing like these guys (meaning my dogs). They are amazing at the way they truly feel you and Frank (my husband). They truly fight to the end even with people's hearts. Your dogs have my heart and when Snowy (their dog) passes away I want you to help me find a good APBT for us (her and my father-in-law) and I want to help you fight for these breeds." I was in tears by the time she was done talking... If I can get my mother- in-law to fall in love with this breed I am doing something right...

My point is this breed isnt just a dog whether its a pet or working dog or fighting dog... My mother in law said it best "they will steal your heart and never let go"


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

:goodpost::goodpost:

What she said.


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