# Bitch in heat



## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

My dog is in her 2nd heat. I was wondering when do you know she is ready to breed? I found a stud I am going to mate her with and supposed to take her there fri. or sat. and leave her for a week. She still aint swollen MUCH and just barely bleeding. I have noticed she has been lickin her self for about a week and hoping I don't miss the right time for her to breed.

Also when she is done licking herself she does this biting thing and you can see the muscles on top of her head contract lol. Maybe it taste bad, or she is tryin to chew it?


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Why are you breeding??

You shouldnt be breeding BUT i no your going to anyway no matter what anyone says, so marswell educated.
She will be fertile aroudn 10days after bleeding it should turn into a light purple heat, the female will stand for the male. ect go google it

The chewy thing is stimulating there nasal passage. Gracies mum done it right through birth lol


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Seriously, why are you adding to the population of a breed that gets killed by the thousands every day?

You know how much it's going to cost you to raise these puppies? You know your dog could die too...Right?

How are you going to make sure they go to good home?


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

I am breeding for many reasons. I know they will go to good homes b/c I will be keeping them and the ones I don't family and friends will be getting.And the owner of the stud is getting 1. Purple heat? I thought I was looking for straw color? I think she may have been bleeding longer than I know and just keeping herself well cleansed. I know her first heat she bled really bad. I have noticed blood spots on my couch where she is not supposed to be, but does once everyone is asleep in the house. And once I had her in my lap and a little blood was on my leg


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

I ment like a lilac/lavender.


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

Do some research. Buy some books about breeding. So you can read about how you should be going about it. She will go into heat every six months so it's not like your missing a super opportunity that won't be coming again. Find a real responsible breeder to mentor you so you can do stuff right the first time. If you don't know when she should be bred you don't know enough about breeding to be doing it.

You won't receive the answers your looking for here. I believe you have been a member long enough to know that.


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

First im gonna awnser the question. 9-10 days from the day your bitch began bleeding she will become fertile. you have 9-10 days from that day to breed her. so within 18 days of her first blood day you would have wanted to breed her at least 1 time if you want to breed. I REALLY want you to know it is not a cheap indever in any meaning of the word to do it RIGHT. Anyone can raise pups right? Yeah it is your american freedom to do it but why would you risk her health just to make ? $300? So you want to breed your female. You know what to expect if everything goes right. Your little girl will present you with tiny bundles of joy. She will lovingly nurse them and care for them until they are old enough to be weaned. 

You and your family will find great joy in watching and playing with these little dolls, and then when the time is right they will all (or maybe you keep just one) go off to special homes to live out their lives as cherished companions. But have you given consideration to what if something goeswrong? I have listed here a few of the problems that I myself have personal knowledge of. Everything listed has happened either to me or someone I know. These are not isolated incidents. I'm sure other breeders could add miles to my list. Learn by others mistakes!. Let the breeding up to those who know what they are doing, have the experience, know what to expect. 

WHAT IF DURING THE BREEDING 


The stud dog you have chosen is carrying a venereal disease and gives it to your female. She not only doesn't conceive but you have to pay the vet bills to get her infection cleared up and she is now sterile. 
The stud dog you decided to breed your darling to is not experienced. Once the two dogs are joined tightly in a tie, he decides to chase the neighbors cat out of his yard. He bolts for the cat ripping his penis loose and causing your bitch to hemorrhage from within. 
Your modest girl decides she doesn't want the attentions of this gigolo mutt chosen for her without her consent. She snaps at him catching her tooth on his loose cheek and rips it open sending blood flying everywhere. He retaliates by sinking his teeth into her left eye. 
You leave your dog with the stud owner because the breeding is not going very swiftly. In fact , it's been three hours and nothing is happening. The stud owners leave the two dogs alone in the back yard. The dogs get out through a tiny hole in the fence and a truck hits your female. 
You pay the $250-$1000 stud fee up front figuring you will make that and more back when the pups sell. The breeder guarantees the stud service to work or you can come back again. After 2 months you discover it didn't work and now must wait another 4 months to try again. Of course it doesn't work again, so in another 4 months you take your dog to another male and risk loosing another stud fee. 
You get her bred. Bring her home and let her out. (She is still in heat and receptive to other males) but you do not see the neighborhood mutt breed her. The pups are born but look odd. You call the stud owner he suggests DNA testing (At your expense). You have a litter of mutts! What do you do about the ones you have already sold? 
Or knowing she tied with the neighborhood mutt you decide to terminate the pregnancy and try again being more careful next time. But a few weeks later your female is very sick because you had her given a miss-mate shot creating a hormonal imbalance causing a uterine infection and now she has Pyometra and needs a complete hysterectomy. All plans of getting a litter is gone and your female's life is now in danger if she does not have the operation. 
WHAT IF DURING THE BIRTH 


The puppies are too large for the female. She never goes into labor, the puppies die and she becomes infected by the decaying bodies. 
The puppies are coming breech and they drown in their own sacks before they can be born. 
The first puppy is large and breech. When it starts coming your female starts screaming, and before you can stop her she reaches around, grabs the puppy in her teeth and yanks it out killing it instantly. 
A puppy gets stuck. Neither your female nor you can get it out. You have to race her to the vet. The vet can't get it out either. She has to have an emergency caesarian section of course it is 3:00 am Christmas day. 
A puppy is coming out breech and dry (the water sack that protects them has burst). It gets stuck. Mom tries to help it out by clamping her teeth over one of the back legs. The head and shoulders are firmly caught. Mom pulls on the leg, hard, peeling the flesh from the leg and leaving a wiggling stump of bone. 
A dead puppy gets stuck in the birth canal, but your female is well into hard labor. She contracts so hard trying to give birth that her uterus ruptures and she bleeds to death on the way to the vet. 
WHAT IF DIRECTLY AFTER THE BIRTH 


The mother has no idea what to do with a puppy and she drops them out and walks away, leaving them in the sack to drown. 
The mother takes one look at the puppies, decides they are disgusting droppings and tries to smother them in anything she can find to bury them in. 
The mother gets too enthusiastic in her removal of the placenta and umbilical cord, and rips the cord out leaving a gushing hole pulsing blood all over you as you try in vain to stop the bleeding. 
Or, she pulls on the cords so hard she disembowels the puppies as they are born and you have a box full of tiny, kicking babies with a tangle of guts the size of a walnut hanging from their stomachs. Of course all the babies must be put to sleep. 
What if because of some Hormone deficiency she turns vicious allowing no one near her or the babies, who she refuses to nurse, or you have to interfere with. 
You notice something protruding from her vagina when you let her out to pee. You take her to the vet to discover a prolapsed uterus, which needs to be removed. 
WHAT IF WHEN YOU THINK YOU'RE IN THE CLEAR 


One or more of the puppies inhaled fluid during birth, pneumonia develops and death occurs within 36 hours. 
What if the mother's milk goes bad. You lose three of your four puppies before you discover what is wrong. You end up bottle feeding the remaining pup every two hours, day and night. After three days the puppy fades from infection and dies. 
The puppies develop fading puppy syndrome you lose two. You bottle-feeding or tube feeding the last remaining baby. It begins to choke and despite your efforts to clear the airway, the pup stiffens and dies in your hands. 
Your female develops mastitis and her breast ruptures. 
Your female develops a uterine infection from a retained placenta. Her temperature soars to 105. You race her to the vet, he determines she must be spayed. He does the spay in an attempt to save her life, you pay the hundreds of dollars bill. The infection has gone into her blood stream. The infected milk kills all the puppies and the bitch succumbs a day later. 
All the puppies are fine but following the birth the female develops a hormone imbalance. She becomes a fear biter and anytime anyone tries to touch her she viciously attacks them. 
Mom and pups seem fine, the puppies are four weeks old and are at their cutest. However, one day one of the puppies disappears. You search everywhere but you can't find it. A few days later another puppy is gone. And another. You can't figure how on earth the puppies are getting out of their safe 4' x 4' puppy pen. Finally there is only one puppy left. The next morning you find the mother chomping contentedly on what is left of the last murdered puppy. 
WHAT IF THE NEW HOMES AREN'T SO HAPPY 


You give a puppy to a friend. Their fence blows down so they tie the puppy outside while they go to work. A roving dog comes along and kills the puppy. Your friend calls you up to tell you about the poor little puppy and asks when you are having more puppies. 
You sell a puppy to an acquaintance. The next time you see them you ask how the puppy is doing. They tell you that it soiled their new carpet so they took it to the pound 
You sell a puppy to a friend (you give them a good price and payments). They make a couple of tiny payments. Six months later they move to an apartment. They ask you to take it back. You take it back and of course the payments stop. The dog they returned is so shy, and ill mannered from lack of socialization and training it takes you a year of work providing socializing and training to be able to give it away. 
You sell a puppy to a wonderful home. They love her like one of the family. At a vet check done by their vet it is determined that the puppy has a heart murmur. (Your vet found nothing when he checked the puppy before it was sold.) They love their puppy and want the best for her. They have an expensive surgery done. The puppy is fine. They sue you for the medical costs. They win, because you did not have a contract stipulating conditions of guarantee and so as breeder you are responsible for the puppy's genetic health. 
You give a puppy to your mother. She is thrilled. Two years later the puppy starts developing problems. It begins to develop odd symptoms and is suffering. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of tests later it is finally discovered that the dog is suffering from a terminal condition that was inherited. possibly from your female since you know nothing about her family lines. 
One loving home decides your puppy is untrainable, destructive and wants to return the pup and get a full refund, which you have spent on your vet bills. 
One loving couple calls you and is very upset because their pup has crippling hip dysplasia and want to know what you are going to do about it. You have spayed your female so a replacement is out of the question, looks like another refund. 
THE SALE 


You put your ad in the local paper for your pups at the usual price and get only 2 responses and no sales. You cut the pup's price in half and broaden your advertising to 3 other newspapers in which the advertising totals $120.00 a week. 
You get a few more puppy inquiries from people who ask all about health testing you did before breeding and if the pups are registered. You tell them your dogs are healthy and it was enough and that you could get the papers. The callers politely thank you and hang up. 
The pups are now 4 months old and getting bigger , eating alot and their barking is really beginning to annoy the neighbors who call the police who inform you of the $150.00 noise by-law. 
Your neighbors also call the humane society who comes out to inspect the care of your dogs. You pass inspection but end up feeling stressed and harassed. 
You finally decide to give the rest of the litter away but still have to pay the $1200.00 advertising bill and the $600.00 vet bill. 
So you gotta ask yourself: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, "breeder?"


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

lol^ Yes Im sure her blood will turn a lilac, or lavender color. I just swabbed her. Its pretty red. And I have been googling just like lot of answers since this is a first time.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Jrama said:


> My dog is in her 2nd heat. I was wondering when do you know she is ready to breed? I found a stud I am going to mate her with and supposed to take her there fri. or sat. and leave her for a week. She still aint swollen MUCH and just barely bleeding. I have noticed she has been lickin her self for about a week and hoping I don't miss the right time for her to breed.
> 
> Also when she is done licking herself she does this biting thing and you can see the muscles on top of her head contract lol. Maybe it taste bad, or she is tryin to chew it?


Sigh, we can't force you to change your mind, but we can ask that you stay around and learn. Too many pitbulls live in the shelters today, its sad really. They were all going to good home, like our pup who was 4 months old when we got her. Poor thing was in a wonderful home, until the owners had to get rid of her, why I never asked, but the sad part was Akasha was going to be put down because of over population.



Xiahko said:


> Seriously, why are you adding to the population of a breed that gets killed by the thousands every day?
> 
> You know how much it's going to cost you to raise these puppies? You know your dog could die too...Right?
> 
> How are you going to make sure they go to good home?


The cost of raises puppies is expensive........The most important thing to remember is that your dog is not ready to be breed until she has a check up with the vet. This breed has a tendency to have problems with their hips. If you don't want to pass on the defects to the puppies, you will need to have a vet check it out, what you see doesn't mean its not there. Secondly its not a good idea to breed your bitch until they are no longer a pup, I'd say around 2 years old is the best time, if a female is breed to soon, the dog will probably die, or become very ill. Reason being is that their body cannot support the calcium withdrawls that the pups will suck out of her into the womb. Another factor that is caused from poor breeding is the transferring of mange from mother to kids, and also seizures.

Once the pups are born, you have to make sure they stay worm free, because of course puppies can get sick. You have to consider that each puppy will cost about 15$ a piece for puppy shots, which needs to be done or the puppy's will most likely die (Parvo shots are good, because if one pup gets them - they all die).

The final thing is you will want to make sure that you new pups and the mother are eatting a good diet. Good dog food is not cheap - and considering that you will probably be going through an entire bag every few days - your looking at somewhere around the ball park of 50$ a day in puppy food.

Look up the costs, and look around these forums - you will find what you need to know - sigh.......



Jrama said:


> I am breeding for many reasons. I know they will go to good homes b/c I will be keeping them and the ones I don't family and friends will be getting.And the owner of the stud is getting 1. Purple heat? I thought I was looking for straw color? I think she may have been bleeding longer than I know and just keeping herself well cleansed. I know her first heat she bled really bad. I have noticed blood spots on my couch where she is not supposed to be, but does once everyone is asleep in the house. And once I had her in my lap and a little blood was on my leg


Sigh......stick around - learn, and hopefully you can see........


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

I know there is a lot at risk. And I cant say I blame yall for trying to get me and others like me to NOT do it. I appreciate the majority of you for trying to to protect and preserve this breed. And to prevent future events, but yall against it also have to realize that not every person new to breeding is going to be a failure, or add to the negatives this breed already faces.

Also the stud is clean and this wont be his first rodeo. He is an actual stud. Now I will go read the rest of your reply and maybe come back with more answers.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Jrama said:


> My dog is in her 2nd heat. I was wondering when do you know she is ready to breed? I found a stud I am going to mate her with and supposed to take her there fri. or sat. and leave her for a week. She still aint swollen MUCH and just barely bleeding. I have noticed she has been lickin her self for about a week and hoping I don't miss the right time for her to breed.
> 
> Also when she is done licking herself she does this biting thing and you can see the muscles on top of her head contract lol. Maybe it taste bad, or she is tryin to chew it?


Anytime you have to come online to ask elementary questions about breeding YOUR own dogs it's a sure sign you shouldn't be breeding. Best thing to do is spay your dog as you obviously haven't a clue as to what your doing therefore your adding to the problem of over crowded shelters and overbreeding of the pet population in general. There is a BIG difference in responsible breeding and breeding to better the breed to produce quality animals VS breeding to produce quantity. How much do you know about Genetics? How long have you been breeding? How many working titles do your dogs currently poses? This is your first time breeding are you doing this breeding under the supervision of a mentor who has been breeding and working dogs for a number of years successfully producing proven offspring? Have both dogs been evaluated for sound temperament? Do you know how your dogs are bred and what health issues surround the dogs in your pedigree and what dogs have been proven and accomplished? Have you health tested your dogs? Are you breeding Bullies or Apbt's? Do you know the difference between the 2 breeds? Are you prepared to recognize and cull anything that is not a great example of the parents and the dogs behind your pups parents? Are you prepared for an emergency C-Section or other complications that may arise during the delivery process? Do you plan on keeping all if not most of these pups? Or do you plan on just selling them off to people you know or strangers?

These are all the questions you should be asking yourself and you better have a good answer for everyone of them because if you don't my friend you are back yard breeding. You are adding to the problem and are not part of the solution. You don't breed for the betterment of stock you breed inferior stock and are producing bad representations of the breed which in turn leads to unstable/unhealthy dogs running around the population.


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

Its not that im agaist it its that WHO are your dogs????? like okay give us what they have done to be able to out produce themselves and be worthy of bringing more into the world I love ALL 8 of my dogs and you dont see me JAMMING the locals with 100s of pups? I have 8 dogs. 2 males and 6 females and yet havent bred because its A not worth it and B my dogs arnt proven. so u just gung hoeing your bitch out and about and around to bring the joy to your family and friends.... but in 3 years when they are crazy cause they didnt raise them right and they want you to take them but you kept 3 female pups and got a male and have 12 dogs on your yard and you dont want them mutts you bred 3 years ago who are spayed and nutered and nuts youll be like wow that was a pointless breeding they all want to give them back? and theyll say sorry take them or they go to the shelter so you take them or they go to the shelter. I LOVE PUPPIES and if you have a QUALITY bitch and stud GO FOR IT. Just think about it a bit and HONESTLY do your research reasearch his and her peds and do it RIGHT. thats all im sayin.


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

You know honestly I have been to a few shelters around here and have seen APBT's maybe 3 times since I was a kid. This is not a metro area and nor does a lot of dog fighting. I believe the majority of what yall are talking about is what is seen on tv shows like pitbulls and paroles and animal cops etc. If you notice most of that is b/c of just pathetic people in general. You can tell from the houses they rescue the dogs from the people dont amount to much either. And then the other pathetic people are ones who use them for fighting and or training fighters. Then the weak ones get left. And yea you get some who grow tired of the dog, or cant handle the breed. its a cruel world. Stuff like that happens. TOO MUCH I know.And its not just with the APBT. The APBT just seems to draw the most attention. But as I said above not everyone new to this is going to end up like this. Maybe 2% of the people who come here. Yall try and make it sound like it is impossible for people to do anything with these dogs. And I don't think its right. Although I do understand, but you cant blame people who want to breed their dog/s as long as its not for the wrong reason/s. If someone has it in their head it is more than likely going to happen. Anyway I enjoy the site and most of the people. Hope I didn't come off the wrong way, or rub any of you wrong. Im sure I did and Im sorry if so. Like I said yall are appreciated and it is people of your kind that is really helping. Im sorry if I seem like Im not, but you never know I may end up with the greatest APBT by making one of the greats greater. lol I kid


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

truepits92 said:


> Its not that im agaist it its that WHO are your dogs????? like okay give us what they have done to be able to out produce themselves and be worthy of bringing more into the world I love ALL 8 of my dogs and you dont see me JAMMING the locals with 100s of pups? I have 8 dogs. 2 males and 6 females and yet havent bred because its A not worth it and B my dogs arnt proven. so u just gung hoeing your bitch out and about and around to bring the joy to your family and friends.... but in 3 years when they are crazy cause they didnt raise them right and they want you to take them but you kept 3 female pups and got a male and have 12 dogs on your yard and you dont want them mutts you bred 3 years ago who are spayed and nutered and nuts youll be like wow that was a pointless breeding they all want to give them back? and theyll say sorry take them or they go to the shelter so you take them or they go to the shelter. I LOVE PUPPIES and if you have a QUALITY bitch and stud GO FOR IT. Just think about it a bit and HONESTLY do your research reasearch his and her peds and do it RIGHT. thats all im sayin.


I understand, but not everyone is trying to have a show dog, or a weight pull champ,or search and rescue, or a dog to be any better than the next. Its not all about that. Yall make it about that. Since when can a pet not be a pet? Shelters are packed with lots of dogs and CATS. Some of you can help by not making it all about the APBT and getting off the bandwagon and let the dog be


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Sadie said:


> Anytime you have to come online to ask elementary questions about breeding YOUR own dogs it's a sure sign you shouldn't be breeding. Best thing to do is spay your dog as you obviously haven't a clue as to what your doing therefore your adding to the problem of over crowded shelters and overbreeding of the pet population in general. There is a BIG difference in responsible breeding and breeding to better the breed to produce quality animals VS breeding to produce quantity. How much do you know about Genetics? How long have you been breeding? How many working titles do your dogs currently poses? This is your first time breeding are you doing this breeding under the supervision of a mentor who has been breeding and working dogs for a number of years successfully producing proven offspring? Have both dogs been evaluated for sound temperament? Do you know how your dogs are bred and what health issues surround the dogs in your pedigree and what dogs have been proven and accomplished? Have you health tested your dogs? Are you breeding Bullies or Apbt's? Do you know the difference between the 2 breeds? Are you prepared to recognize and cull anything that is not a great example of the parents and the dogs behind your pups parents? Are you prepared for an emergency C-Section or other complications that may arise during the delivery process? Do you plan on keeping all if not most of these pups? Or do you plan on just selling them off to people you know or strangers?
> 
> These are all the questions you should be asking yourself and you better have a good answer for everyone of them because if you don't my friend you are back yard breeding. You are adding to the problem and are not part of the solution. You don't breed for the betterment of stock you breed inferior stock and are producing bad representations of the breed which in turn leads to unstable/unhealthy dogs running around the population.


And for you sir, ma'am. I was just trying to get more opinions and do it right and not be one who just throws 2 dogs together and expect a miracle


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Honestly we are passionate about the breed ... We promote breeding when it's done responsibly and done to better the breed. Just because you have some nice looking dogs or want pups off them is not a reason to breed. A good reason to breed? Let's say I have 2 GR CH show dogs both proven and accomplished ADBA show dogs. Both have been evaluated for sound temperament and have passed basic health testing. Both are fine specimens of the breed and come from a long line of proven dogs ... I would like to base my yard of these 2 dogs for the future of producing more future GR CH show working offspring everything I breed I intend to keep and anything that doesn't live up to the quality of both parents I cull. Or let's say I have a bitch who is brood stock she is a known producer anything she is bred to she produces quality pups. I want to introduce new blood to my yard so I outcross her with a proven quality stud to strengthen my bloodlines in the yard. These are good reasons to breed these are acceptable reasons to breed. Breeding just to produce more cute pups is NOT!


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

we have 2 no kill shelters with 90% of the dogs being pits and 1 ASPCA all within 30 miles of eachother all to the nose with pits yeah there is citys here but what are you gonna do when the pups you produce have pups and they steal all your prime market for the pups u did sell and now are produceing pits at 10 and 20 fold all because of you? Yeah I can say ... there isnt many registered dogs around here and AGAIN it dosent make me breed till I have shown and proved my dogs to EVERYONE. not just me "oh they are good dogs" yeah they are GREAT DOGS do I know about 15 people who would love to pay a nice peice for them and tons of people who would want one dirt cheap like friends and family YES Just rember you could prob come here and buy registed adba pups (or anywhere) for the same quality if not better and flip them for more and not risk your own dogs life. Just alls we ask is you THINK about it. noone means to jump down your thoat WE just understand the creek our breed is up and we are the few with paddle tryin to take the breed in the right direction.


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

So tell us: What is so good about your bitch and the stud that makes them GREAT dogs in genral? not even that they are show prospects (cause who wants a dog that fits the breed standard right?) Just what is GREAT about the dogs? What do they know? Sit? Stay? Fetch? Lay down? Why does everyone want a pet like this stud and bitch? I would like to know.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Jrama said:


> I know there is a lot at risk. And I cant say I blame yall for trying to get me and others like me to NOT do it. I appreciate the majority of you for trying to to protect and preserve this breed. And to prevent future events, but yall against it also have to realize that not every person new to breeding is going to be a failure, or add to the negatives this breed already faces.
> 
> *Also the stud is clean and this wont be his first rodeo.* He is an actual stud. Now I will go read the rest of your reply and maybe come back with more answers.





Jrama said:


> You know honestly I have been to a few shelters around here and have seen APBT's maybe 3 times since I was a kid. This is not a metro area and nor does a lot of dog fighting.* I believe the majority of what yall are talking about is what is seen on tv shows like pitbulls and paroles and animal cops etc*. If you notice most of that is b/c of just pathetic people in general. You can tell from the houses they rescue the dogs from the people dont amount to much either. And then the other pathetic people are ones who use them for fighting and or training fighters. Then the weak ones get left. And yea you get some who grow tired of the dog, or cant handle the breed. its a cruel world. Stuff like that happens. TOO MUCH I know.And its not just with the APBT. The APBT just seems to draw the most attention. But as I said above not everyone new to this is going to end up like this. Maybe 2% of the people who come here. Yall try and make it sound like it is impossible for people to do anything with these dogs. And I don't think its right. Although I do understand, but you cant blame people who want to breed their dog/s as long as its not for the wrong reason/s. If someone has it in their head it is more than likely going to happen. Anyway I enjoy the site and most of the people. Hope I didn't come off the wrong way, or rub any of you wrong. Im sure I did and Im sorry if so. Like I said yall are appreciated and it is people of your kind that is really helping. Im sorry if I seem like Im not, but you never know I may end up with the greatest APBT by making one of the greats greater. lol I kid





Jrama said:


> *I understand, but not everyone is trying to have a show dog, or a weight pull champ,or search and rescue, or a dog to be any better than the next. *Its not all about that. Yall make it about that. Since when can a pet not be a pet? Shelters are packed with lots of dogs and CATS. Some of you can help by not making it all about the APBT and getting off the bandwagon and let the dog be





Jrama said:


> And for you sir, ma'am. I was just trying to get more opinions and do it right and not be one who just throws 2 dogs together and expect a miracle


Okay, I'm not trying to come off rude here, but judging by your responses, all I can say is "Ignorance is bliss". As for us making it all about the APBT, you're darn right we are! And, no, we're not going off what we see on t.v. :hammer: I don't live in a big city, but can go to the local shelter everyday in a given week, and there'll be 5-10 APBTs or mixes in there and they rotate every day (meaning the same ones I saw today won't be there tomorrow)!

As for your statement in red, the breeders who do it right, and by the book and breed to better the breed as a whole and for something on their personal yard, for whatever it may be, i.e., show ring, agility, weight pull, Schutzund, etc, have at least 2 or 3 pups out of every litter that will end up as pets already! Please, take heed to the advice given here, that you asked for. Clearly you're going to do what you want to do, but we've seen this time and again where people ask for help/advice/opinions and end up coming back and telling us we were right, that it was more work/money/stress/commitment/trouble than they realized in the beginning.


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## Wingman (Oct 21, 2009)

Jrama said:


> I understand, but not everyone is trying to have a show dog, or a weight pull champ,or search and rescue, or a dog to be any better than the next. Its not all about that. Yall make it about that. Since when can a pet not be a pet? Shelters are packed with lots of dogs and CATS. Some of you can help by not making it all about the APBT and getting off the bandwagon and let the dog be


If it's not about the show, or the sports. Then why even have a pure bred dog? A pure bred dog means that it adheres to a set of specific conformation standards. A pet can be a pet, but once you cross into the land of breeding, it's no longer just a pet. And what makes you so sure your bitch is of breeding qaulity? If you truly love the breed, then you would only want to breed her if she was the perfect example of an APBT. Just because she's the sweetest and most loveable thing in the world doesn't mean that she truly represents the breed.

So WHY exactly do you want to breed your dog? Is it because you think she's pretty or soooooo many people told you she's pretty? Is it because she's the sweetest dog in the world? You claim that you're responsible and doing this for teh right reasons, but WHAT are they?


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

ThaLadyPit said:


> Okay, I'm not trying to come off rude here, but judging by your responses, all I can say is "Ignorance is bliss". As for us making it all about the APBT, you're darn right we are! And, no, we're not going off what we see on t.v. :hammer: I don't live in a big city, but can go to the local shelter everyday in a given week, and there'll be 5-10 APBTs or mixes in there and they rotate every day (meaning the same ones I saw today won't be there tomorrow)!
> 
> As for your statement in red, the breeders who do it right, and by the book and breed to better the breed as a whole and for something on their personal yard, for whatever it may be, i.e., show ring, agility, weight pull, Schutzund, etc, have at least 2 or 3 pups out of every litter that will end up as pets already! Please, take heed to the advice given here, that you asked for. Clearly you're going to do what you want to do, but we've seen this time and again where people ask for help/advice/opinions and end up coming back and telling us we were right, that it was more work/money/stress/commitment/trouble than they realized in the beginning.


:goodpost::goodpost:
BOOM!!!!!!! I hear you Bev. I don't live in a very big town either and let me tell you guys no joke our shelter is 90% pit and pit mixes. It is very very sad to see people continuing to breed these dogs just to have "one of their pups" It leaves an entire litter in despair.

What's gunna happen to these pups later on down the road when the owners can't handle them and want to get rid of them, will you be able to take them back? I ask this because I have re homed about 10 pit pups this year. People love the cute puppy phase but they are not a breed for everyone. Most people don't know how to properly handle them. Many of the pups I re homed was cause of that reason right there. They had no clue how to handle a high drive working dog and so they give up on them. In most cases like this they end up being PTS in the shelter.

If you can not financially afford to take care of the litter, including the ones that don't sell, and the ones that come back, then you shouldn't even be thinking about it at all. There is so many thing to consider before you can start a breeding program. Making cute puppies from two pretty dogs is not only a bad reason but it's also very selfish.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Because his dogs look so GD good .. They got 42 inch head pieces they are rare skittle colors and they are built right and he could sell them for 1500.00 a pop what other reason would he be breeding? He has obviously stated that not everyone wants a show/working dog so he doesn't believe in breeding for purpose. There are only a few legitimate reasons to breed but there are many many reasons not to breed. And furthermore if you need gopitbull.com to tell you if your dog is in heat or not and when to back your dog up to a stud that makes it even worse that you are even contemplating breeding. I can only pray you miss her on this heat and maybe take in some of the information you have been given. It would sure save you and the breed a lot of head ache and grief because nothing your thinking about doing can produce anything good not with your mentality about breeding. It seems harsh doesn't it? The truth can sometimes be a harsh thing to accept. DO NOT BREED let the pro's breed you want another dog get one from an established breeder who's already producing quality animals! Good Luck and take the advice given it will not steer you wrong I promise you that!


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Jrama said:


> I know there is a lot at risk. And I cant say I blame yall for trying to get me and others like me to NOT do it. I appreciate the majority of you for trying to to protect and preserve this breed. And to prevent future events, but yall against it also have to realize that not every person new to breeding is going to be a failure, or add to the negatives this breed already faces.
> 
> Also the stud is clean and this wont be his first rodeo. He is an actual stud. Now I will go read the rest of your reply and maybe come back with more answers.


No one here is saying they are against it, we are just trying to NOT only preserve this breed - we are trying to help you learn, so that your dog won't die from it. A friend of mine obtained a pitbull as a rescue and this dog had so many problems and seizures - because this dog was pimped out by someone who wanted to breed. Breeding a dog too young can cause this - and trust me a dog who has a seizure is scary. Seizures do not happen right away either - you could breed for years before your dog has one.


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Sadie said:


> Honestly we are passionate about the breed ... We promote breeding when it's done responsibly and done to better the breed. Just because you have some nice looking dogs or want pups off them is not a reason to breed. A good reason to breed? Let's say I have 2 GR CH show dogs both proven and accomplished ADBA show dogs. Both have been evaluated for sound temperament and have passed basic health testing. Both are fine specimens of the breed and come from a long line of proven dogs ... I would like to base my yard of these 2 dogs for the future of producing more future GR CH show working offspring everything I breed I intend to keep and anything that doesn't live up to the quality of both parents I cull. Or let's say I have a bitch who is brood stock she is a known producer anything she is bred to she produces quality pups. I want to introduce new blood to my yard so I outcross her with a proven quality stud to strengthen my bloodlines in the yard. These are good reasons to breed these are acceptable reasons to breed. Breeding just to produce more cute pups is NOT!


What if I just want a house full of puppies? lol j/k But not everyone is in to show, or competition. That may be the best, or only reason in some peoples opinion to breed, but dont make it right, or wrong. If everyone only bred for these reasons the dog really would die out. And be hard to come by because not everyone is in areas to be able to do those things. Also who is to say that the people who yall call reputable breeders dont sell dogs that end up fighting, or in pounds, or some other bad cause? If the breed didnt have such a bad rep in the media it would not be such a deal for people to accept breeding. And there actually is lots of GCH in my bitch's pedigree. That is encouraging. But Im not going to be doing any weight pull comps, etc cause they are not around me. The APBT is not only for the ring today. They also make great family pets and that is another reason to breed. Maybe not for you and lots of others here, but to each his own. No1 can stop it. its like gays and lesbians, or illegal drugs. I cant blame you for tryin to stop it, but its not gonna happen. Also everyone says "to better" the breed. What happens to all the dogs that aint good enough for your standards? Just house pets, right? So whats the difference in people breeding for the common cause? AS LONG AS THEY GET GOOD HOMES? Mine has GCH and CH in her ped. Her pups could be as well, or I could say that Im just continuing Falin's work. This is a topic that cant be won. Its all based on opinions unless there is wrong in it some how then its obvious. But different strokes for different folks


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Akasha said:


> No one here is saying they are against it, we are just trying to NOT only preserve this breed - we are trying to help you learn, so that your dog won't die from it. A friend of mine obtained a pitbull as a rescue and this dog had so many problems and seizures - because this dog was pimped out by someone who wanted to breed. Breeding a dog too young can cause this - and trust me a dog who has a seizure is scary. Seizures do not happen right away either - you could breed for years before your dog has one.


And I took that into consideration and waited til her 2nd heat. I know someone is gonna say 2yrs, or longer, but even my vet said 2nd heat


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

truepits92 said:


> So tell us: What is so good about your bitch and the stud that makes them GREAT dogs in genral? not even that they are show prospects (cause who wants a dog that fits the breed standard right?) Just what is GREAT about the dogs? What do they know? Sit? Stay? Fetch? Lay down? Why does everyone want a pet like this stud and bitch? I would like to know.


Again not everyone wants a dog that competes or is show worthy.Which yall are pretty much implying is the only reason to breed. And as I said she has lots of GCH adn CH in her ped. Lots of WP titles. She is of Falin. So I could argue that people looking for that kind of could be pleased. Is she a GCH or a CH? No but her grandparents are and thats good enough for me. And a lot of other people. Thats like sayin if the dog dont have a title its not worthy of life. Thats not true. Not all dogs are gonna be nothing more than a pet. Even when they come from "reputable breeders" people around here just like APBT's in general. They are special cause of the breed. Not their title. Thats just for fun and bragging rights


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Akasha said:


> No one here is saying they are against it, we are just trying to NOT only preserve this breed - we are trying to help you learn, so that your dog won't die from it. A friend of mine obtained a pitbull as a rescue and this dog had so many problems and seizures - because this dog was pimped out by someone who wanted to breed. Breeding a dog too young can cause this - and trust me a dog who has a seizure is scary. Seizures do not happen right away either - you could breed for years before your dog has one.


This is life. You cant let things like that stop you. It happens with all breeds. Even people. Heck we cant get in a car and guarantee we wont get in a wreck


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

ThaLadyPit said:


> Okay, I'm not trying to come off rude here, but judging by your responses, all I can say is "Ignorance is bliss". As for us making it all about the APBT, you're darn right we are! And, no, we're not going off what we see on t.v. :hammer: I don't live in a big city, but can go to the local shelter everyday in a given week, and there'll be 5-10 APBTs or mixes in there and they rotate every day (meaning the same ones I saw today won't be there tomorrow)!
> 
> As for your statement in red, the breeders who do it right, and by the book and breed to better the breed as a whole and for something on their personal yard, for whatever it may be, i.e., show ring, agility, weight pull, Schutzund, etc, have at least 2 or 3 pups out of every litter that will end up as pets already! Please, take heed to the advice given here, that you asked for. Clearly you're going to do what you want to do, but we've seen this time and again where people ask for help/advice/opinions and end up coming back and telling us we were right, that it was more work/money/stress/commitment/trouble than they realized in the beginning.


That may be true, but does what does that mean? How do you know the dog catchers aint just biased and look for these dogs cause of the rep they have? Everything has a reason and not always leads to "backyard breeders" etc.


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

WOWOWOWOW Im done on this thread you dont want to learn. Go peddle your unatractive no name "pits" who have nothing going for them just because you want pups it's okay we know what we are talking about. Its just that we LOVE our breed and we try to look out for ALL the APBTs and thats why we are TRYING to educate you about the lack of need for more pits with no goals to end up in shelters or without love and stability and to just be a PIT BULL!!!! over and out.


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## LadyRampage (Apr 11, 2009)

When you say 2nd heat are you talking about breeding a dog that is a year or just over a year old? Because in reality that is still just a puppy if that is the case. If you want a pet, go to a shelter, there are plenty there. 

There are soo many more factors to look at BEFORE you even decide to breed your dogs, do you have the vet money ready in case something goes wrong, are you ready to bottle feed? It might go smoothly but it just as easily might go bad. C-sections are not cheap and usually are only need when its after hours or a weekend where its going to cost you more money. Its ALOT of work, just be prepared. 

Frankly you can't "end up with the greatest APBT by making one of the greats greater" if your just breeding pets to be pets. You have to go out and PROVE those dogs are great.


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

*YOU ARE*



Jrama said:


> That may be true, but does what does that mean? How do you know the dog catchers aint just biased and look for these dogs cause of the rep they have? Everything has a reason and not always leads to "backyard breeders" etc.


YOU ARE BECOMEING A BYB BY BREEDING A NO NAME NON TITLED PITBULL>>>!!!!


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## LadyRampage (Apr 11, 2009)

BTW by NOT breeding to standard you are slowly going away from what the APBT IS, that is why there is a standard to follow. 

Its obvious by your response that you really didn't want any helpful advise, but wanted to justify your reason for breeding your dog. Instead of paying attention, redoing your research and LISTEN your going to argue EVERY point given to you. And if your vet is ENCOURAGING you to bred, I find that suspect because the majority of vets don't like to see over populations, especially of "pets".


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Yall make good points. And I do appreciate the input. I was saying I "could" figuratively speaking making the great, greater. You never know. My point was that maybe some people just want a good looking, well behaved, loyal, loving, "no name" pet. While I admire dogs in general with titles, not everyone needs that, or is looking for that in just a pet. Its not needed when your not going to put that dog in those situations. I guess thats what BYB are good for? And I hate that everyone says. All your doing is over populating and your dogs will be no good cause they have no title/s. Who knows what the future holds. We all have to start somewhere and this is something Im going to experience with, or without yalls approval. If the people who get my dogs, or my dogs, dogs and they decide to put them in some sort of comps. Thats great. As I said its already in their blood, but that dont mean they will excel in that, nor does it mean a dog cant just because I bred it. I personally want a dog that is well rounded like the athlete the APBT represents in dogs. Great looks, obedience and health of course. And yes there is rescue dogs, but thats not for most either. Most people including myself like to go and pick a pup from a liter and raise how we want it. Its more exciting and fun that way.You also never know what your getting with them dogs because of what they have been thru. Its easier to trust a dog you raised, than a pit from a pound. I would also like to add that not everyone has "reputable" proven breeders in their areas, or has the money to pay for shipping, etc to get certain dogs. BYB can be good for a lot. And not all BYB are as bad as some of you make them out to be. Sorry I ticked everyone off. Im good at that, but that was not my intentions. I am here to lean and socialize. And yes I felt I had to justify my reasons and a lot of others like me.


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

LadyRampage said:


> And if your vet is ENCOURAGING you to bred, I find that suspect because the majority of vets don't like to see over populations, especially of "pets".


If our dogs are not "pets" and part of the family what are they?

Tell me. What is right and wrong and why? How is it the only way when there is many different walks of life of different people? Whats suits you may not suit the next


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

truepits92 said:


> YOU ARE BECOMEING A BYB BY BREEDING A NO NAME NON TITLED PITBULL>>>!!!!


.:hammer::hammer::hammer: Once again. is a dog only worth breeding if it has a ribbon? Says who? And why? I bet there is more dogs with no titles that is better than a lot of dogs with ribbons, but will never get to prove it cause not everyone wants to do that. Also one can argue that a title was due to poor competitors in its class, or an opinion based on a judge. As long as you know what you want everything will be ok. Most people want APBT just b/c of that. They are pitbulls. They love their attitude, looks, or the many powers it poses. Everything is not about titles unless your gonna do that. Unless you put the best dogs against the best dogs and find out who the best really is around the globe that CH and GCH may be a fluke. Also most people only care if the dog is registered. Some dont care. Some of you seem double standard also. Calling dogs with no names/titles worthless, but not in those words then say to go rescue one of them. Registered, not registered, titles, no titles.At the end of the day its still a dog


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Let me tell you right now. My boy Dosia comes from great lines and has a great ped but does that mean he is breeding stock no! My boy has some amazing dogs in his bloodline like
Kitten's devil decon, Marlo's Peaches, and Plumber's Alligator. I love my boy but would I breed him heck no. He is a wonderful dog and has made me way more than a proud APBT owner but he is not breeding stock. He is way to big for standard and has quite a few faults like his under bite and a few other things. I love my dog and he is one amazing bulldog but as far as breeding programs go he falls short of what I would want. I am no breeder and I love my dog very much, I will be getting him into WP very soon and I think he'll be great, But he won't ever be a "Stud"


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Jrama said:


> My point was that maybe some people just want a good looking, well behaved, loyal, loving, "no name" pet.


Why is this something that has to come out of your dog instead of from a shelter where there are already hundreds, no, thousands of unadopted pit bull dogs? Thousands of dogs who are put to death every year because of mentalities like "Why adopt one from the shelter when I can make 4-12 of my own?" Look up the statistics on pit bull euthanasia in shelters, the numbers are staggering.

Where do you think those shelter dogs came from? A vast majority of them will have been from people, like you, who just wanted to breed their dog one time, to let them experience motherhood, to just get one puppy. Well, there isn't just one puppy to take into consideration, there will be a lot more than that. And for every puppy you bring into the world that is one less home for an unfortunate shelter dog who could have gone to a loving home, but instead will end up being cremated en mass with hundreds of other pits who came from litters that came out of the same line of thinking.

You are being irresponsible here, whether or not you would like to think so.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Carriana said:


> Why is this something that has to come out of your dog instead of from a shelter where there are already hundreds, no, thousands of unadopted pit bull dogs? Thousands of dogs who are put to death every year because of mentalities like "Why adopt one from the shelter when I can make 4-12 of my own?" Look up the statistics on pit bull euthanasia in shelters, the numbers are staggering.
> 
> Where do you think those shelter dogs came from? A vast majority of them will have been from people, like you, who just wanted to breed their dog one time, to let them experience motherhood, to just get one puppy. Well, there isn't just one puppy to take into consideration, there will be a lot more than that. And for every puppy you bring into the world that is one less home for an unfortunate shelter dog who could have gone to a loving home, but instead will end up being cremated en mass with hundreds of other pits who came from litters that came out of the same line of thinking.
> 
> You are being irresponsible here, whether or not you would like to think so.


Exactly, that was my point. just cause my dog has a good ped that doesn't mean I should breed him. I have had many people tell me getting Dosia neutered was the dumbest thing ever cause I could have made a ton off his stud fees. I love my boy to death and he has the best temperament I could ask for but he does have his faults and I honestly don't see him as the perfect APBT. I love him to death and his is one of the best dogs I have ever had the pleasure of raising, but he is huge and has a big under bite. This would be passed on and is not up to standards. I mean he is a genetic freak. He is a 70+ pound dog coming from 40-50lb range parents. he is not up to the standard of the breed. 
Please don't get me wrong, my dog is one amazing bulldog with a hard mouth and a willingness to please but as far as a breeding program goes he is not what is desired for our breed standard. I love my boy with all my heart and he is a great true bulldog but I would never start a breeding program with him.


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Carriana said:


> Why is this something that has to come out of your dog instead of from a shelter where there are already hundreds, no, thousands of unadopted pit bull dogs? Thousands of dogs who are put to death every year because of mentalities like "Why adopt one from the shelter when I can make 4-12 of my own?" Look up the statistics on pit bull euthanasia in shelters, the numbers are staggering.
> 
> Where do you think those shelter dogs came from? A vast majority of them will have been from people, like you, who just wanted to breed their dog one time, to let them experience motherhood, to just get one puppy. Well, there isn't just one puppy to take into consideration, there will be a lot more than that. And for every puppy you bring into the world that is one less home for an unfortunate shelter dog who could have gone to a loving home, but instead will end up being cremated en mass with hundreds of other pits who came from litters that came out of the same line of thinking.
> 
> You are being irresponsible here, whether or not you would like to think so.


You cant argue with stats. But just because I breed my dog does not mean the pups are going to shelters. If people wanted shelter dogs they would get them. Also some people cant get dogs from shelters b/c you have to have home owners ins. and I think a 5ft tall fence around your property. Well that was the law here in GA when I tried to get one about 5 yrs ago from a shelter. And the other reason being, which I stated above if yall would stop taking everything out of text. People would rather pick from a liter and raise their pup than to go to a shelter and get one


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

kg420 said:


> Exactly, that was my point. just cause my dog has a good ped that doesn't mean I should breed him. I have had many people tell me getting Dosia neutered was the dumbest thing ever cause I could have made a ton off his stud fees. I love my boy to death and he has the best temperament I could ask for but he does have his faults and I honestly don't see him as the perfect APBT. I love him to death and his is one of the best dogs I have ever had the pleasure of raising, but he is huge and has a big under bite. This would be passed on and is not up to standards. I mean he is a genetic freak. He is a 70+ pound dog coming from 40-50lb range parents. he is not up to the standard of the breed.
> Please don't get me wrong, my dog is one amazing bulldog with a hard mouth and a willingness to please but as far as a breeding program goes he is not what is desired for our breed standard. I love my boy with all my heart and he is a great true bulldog but I would never start a breeding program with him.


Cant say I blame ya. Yes in one picture it reminds me of a Great Dane lol Sorry he is beautiful. But like I said just b/c it has certain titles in their ped does not make it worthy to breed. But then again if it has nothing note worthy in its ped does not exclude it either. This debate is never ending. We might as well drop it. We all know each sides of the story


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

What are you going to do when some of them find out they can't handle this breed. I have re homed over 10 pit bulls this yeas due to the fact that they got older and the people who owned them can't handle them any more. Can you take on the responsibility to raise and care for every single pup in this litter?


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

First and foremost I wont get rid of them to just anyone. And most will be going to people I know. Lots of friends and family. My neighbor has been saying she wants a pup if I ever bred her. I know its hard to believe, but Im not what yall think


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## beccaboo (Dec 27, 2009)

Just say no. There are already tons of breeders that know what they're doin producing quality litters, and tons more byb's. If ur friends what a pit pup save em one off craigslist n call it good. Maybe you all can have playdates. Heck maybe it will inspire you to save a shelter pup while ur at it. Trust me- it's not all it's cracked up to be. Been there done that and seriously- not worth the risk. Leave it to the pros and instead research the euthanasia stats for pits in the US and save one instead. Seriously hope you read and heed the given advice... For the dogs sake.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

You know what I do when someone asks if I breed my dogs or if they can get a pup from the next litter? Direct them to the breeder that I got them from. I don't get a "finder's fee" or anything like that but what I do get is the knowledge that that person will be getting a quality pup with all the after care and guarantees that goes along with it.

I've known these breeders for years now and I've seen them preparing for breedings, sitting through whelpings and looking after pups many times. With professionals there is nothing left to chance. And even then things go wrong. That's not even thinking about the expense. If you're doing it right you don't make much money.

Having said all that, I know your mind is made up and I genuinely hope your breeding goes well and that nothing unexpected happens.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

LadyRampage said:


> When you say 2nd heat are you talking about breeding a dog that is a year or just over a year old?


:goodpost: Just because your vet said that its okay to breed your bitch on the second heat - does not mean that it is true. Check the history of this breed, understand that most of us have seen to many puppies peddled out from BYB breeders. You need to do more research....

My vet told me it was wrong to feed my dog raw meat bones! My vet told me that feeding my dog cooked chicken till it fell of the bone was bad. My vet told that Purina Puppy Chow is the number 1 food on the market......

Do some research......

*Please lock this post* we don't want to scare people away, we want to educate........this is no longer something to educate its turned into a "I'm going to do what I want - and obviously I won't listen to the education those are trying to help with."

Face it we all think BYB is bad, and we all have our personal opinions......No one can force an opinion.......


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

First why would anyone lock this thread? The responses are great information for others who will actually listen and have the same questions... 

To the op: A dog is not worthy of breeding if it does not have or qualify for the following just to start
A title in something (conformation or weight pull and such)
A great history of dogs in her pedigree
Falls into the ultimate of the standard for this breed

And so on and so on

Second there are over a million animals not just this breed killed in shelters across this country each year because some idiot thought that their animals was worthy and it really wasn't... For every ten puppies you produce only ONE will find a forever loving home... The rest will go to loving homes at first til they start chewing becoming more active and being the breed they are... They will be bounced around home to home and eventually to the shelter they will go... Just because there are not alot of bully breeds in your area shelters now does not mean BSL can't touch you... In this country the pitbull is most breed dog period...

You are a BYB if you breed this dog... She is not old enough to breed if she is not at least two and she could die during birth... Oh but I forgot money is what matters to you.... 

Got news for ya ALL BREEDS ARE HELD TO A STANDARD IN WHICH BREEDERS HOLD TRUE TO AND BYBS WITHTHOSE BREEDS GET THE SAME LECTURE YOU RE GETTING!!!

Please do not add to the growing problem of over population of animals because as a rescuer I do not want to hold one of your pups paws while they are injected with the lethal stuff and then watch them take their last breath...


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Oh and I forgot to mention that by not doing health tests on your dog before breeding her you could be setting pups up for a lifetime of disease and pain... She could be carrying the genes for many problems and you wouldn't even know because she's too dang young herself to tell whether her byb parents passed it on to her...


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I think there has been a lot of good advice on this thread and I see no reason to close it. Everyone has been very mature in their posting and I don't see any real heated agruements starting.


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

This is the "I want to breed my Bitch what do I do" thread lol. I would like my question from yesterday awnsered -
So tell us: What is so good about your bitch and the stud that makes them GREAT "pet" dogs in genral? not even that they are show prospects (cause who wants a dog that fits the breed standard right?) Just what is GREAT about the dogs? What do they know? Sit? Stay? Fetch? Lay down? Why does everyone want a pet like this stud and bitch? I would like to know.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Jrama, clearly you're being close-minded here, and only came to justify your personal reasons for wanting to breed, along with some seriously half-concocted story about the vet encouraging you to breed. In all my years of dealing with dogs and different veterinarians, I've NEVER once been told to breed my dogs! They always pushed the spay/neuter issue instead, except with my show dogs, as they knew the circumstances.

You continue to say the same things over and over again, you've got a rebuttal for every good reason we give you NOT to breed your bitch. So, I'll ask you politely.. what exactly was the point in coming here asking us for help/advice if you're not going to listen to us? We're working fervently to preserve the breed, and fight BSL b/c of people that have the same mindset as you, BREED BREED BREED, MONEY MONEY MONEY. When, in all actuality, half or 90% of this litter will end up either in the shelters, wrong hands, or DEAD! You think you know people and how they personally care for their dogs just b/c you've been associated with them for x amount of time? You don't live with these people day in and day out, so how do you know for sure YOUR pups that YOU create will definitively, with out a doubt, be in excellent homes and not be returned to you, beaten, neglected, mistreated, sent to shelter or a [], or put 6 ft under? Can you honestly answer that question? And, what quality or qualities does your bitch and this so-called stud have to offer to the breed, besides being a loyal companion who can do a few cute tricks?


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

all gooooooood stuff... ^^^^^^

Be sure your ready to house as many as you have, if your not prepared to keep every pup, its very misguided to breed.. I don't sell pups persay, so I don't worry about that part of it.. Im building a kennel as we speak, and I will not sell dogs from my kennel, however I will broker them through a couple of sister kennels, and I give a good portion to family and friends who always have them spayed or neutered. This I found is the most responcible way to continue my line of dogs and keep the dogs in healthy environments.


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

*GREAT POST LADY PIT*



ThaLadyPit said:


> Jrama, clearly you're being close-minded here, and only came to justify your personal reasons for wanting to breed, along with some seriously half-concocted story about the vet encouraging you to breed. In all my years of dealing with dogs and different veterinarians, I've NEVER once been told to breed my dogs! They always pushed the spay/neuter issue instead, except with my show dogs, as they knew the circumstances.
> 
> You continue to say the same things over and over again, you've got a rebuttal for every good reason we give you NOT to breed your bitch. So, I'll ask you politely.. what exactly was the point in coming here asking us for help/advice if you're not going to listen to us? We're working fervently to preserve the breed, and fight BSL b/c of people that have the same mindset as you, BREED BREED BREED, MONEY MONEY MONEY. When, in all actuality, half or 90% of this litter will end up either in the shelters, wrong hands, or DEAD! You think you know people and how they personally care for their dogs just b/c you've been associated with them for x amount of time? You don't live with these people day in and day out, so how do you know for sure YOUR pups that YOU create will definitively, with out a doubt, be in excellent homes and *not be returned to you, beaten, neglected, mistreated, sent to shelter or a [], or put 6 ft under?* Can you honestly answer that question? And, what quality or qualities does your bitch and this so-called stud have to offer to the breed, besides being a loyal companion who can do a few cute tricks?


I wanted to add something to the bold *OR BRED AND OVER BRED by someone else OR SOLD TO SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO BREED IT *BECAUSE ITS A Paperd Pit and your "almost giveing them away" to "family and friends" but they could turn around and sell them to joe shmoe who wants it for breeding and there is problem. 4-12 more pits yeah they can be paperd so that makes them "pure" but shes not of standard and maybe not the male so *OTHERS get a hold of 1 of your female pups and thats **4-400 extra pups that YOU helped bring into this world*. YES people are gonna do it reguardless but I know I couldnt sleep without knowing all MY dogs are here safe and sound and not being misstreated and over bred and creating more un loved "pets"


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

ThaLadyPit said:


> Jrama, clearly you're being close-minded here, and only came to justify your personal reasons for wanting to breed, along with some seriously half-concocted story about the vet encouraging you to breed. In all my years of dealing with dogs and different veterinarians, I've NEVER once been told to breed my dogs! They always pushed the spay/neuter issue instead, except with my show dogs, as they knew the circumstances.
> 
> You continue to say the same things over and over again, you've got a rebuttal for every good reason we give you NOT to breed your bitch. So, I'll ask you politely.. what exactly was the point in coming here asking us for help/advice if you're not going to listen to us? We're working fervently to preserve the breed, and fight BSL b/c of people that have the same mindset as you, BREED BREED BREED, MONEY MONEY MONEY. When, in all actuality, half or 90% of this litter will end up either in the shelters, wrong hands, or DEAD! You think you know people and how they personally care for their dogs just b/c you've been associated with them for x amount of time? You don't live with these people day in and day out, so how do you know for sure YOUR pups that YOU create will definitively, with out a doubt, be in excellent homes and not be returned to you, beaten, neglected, mistreated, sent to shelter or a [], or put 6 ft under? Can you honestly answer that question? And, what quality or qualities does your bitch and this so-called stud have to offer to the breed, besides being a loyal companion who can do a few cute tricks?


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

Very heart felt - I love it and oh so true! What is the point of asking about breeding if you've already decided to breed regardless of what anyone says.


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## LadyRampage (Apr 11, 2009)

Jrama said:


> If our dogs are not "pets" and part of the family what are they?
> 
> Tell me. What is right and wrong and why? How is it the only way when there is many different walks of life of different people? Whats suits you may not suit the next


Our dogs are pets, part of the family, AND WORKING dogs, as the standard calls for.

There are many, many different breeds out there to accomidate those different people from different walks of life.

Yes, everyone starts somewhere but in order to achieve that "great" dog you are looking for you have to have clear goals to strive for. Just having two good looking dogs, that are great pets is NOT a goal. That is just adding to the ever growing population problem of the APBT, which in turn cause more issues with our dogs being in the spot light. The media is very unforgiving of our breed, in case you don't get that, and the more "pets" that are out there mean the possiblity of more negative coverage. Yeah, you can say this is a reach but in reality it real isn't. You want pets, pets that aren't screened for health issues, pets that aren't BETTERing the breed by following the standard, pets that are "good" dogs...

I'm not saying you have to title your dogs, I'm not saying you have to health test your dogs, I am saying step back and LISTEN to experienced rescuers, breeders, and owners of our APBTS. You asked, instead of argueing and trying to justify your position, LISTEN.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I do believe that he didn't ask *IF*he should breed but at what point during her heat he should breed. That is two totally different things and probably why he is unresponsive to us telling him not to breed.


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## LadyRampage (Apr 11, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> I do believe that he didn't ask *IF*he should breed but at what point during her heat he should breed. That is two totally different things and probably why he is unresponsive to us telling him not to breed.


Your right, I didn't think of that..

In that case, you should breed on their 6th heat cycle, and on the 22 day of bleeding...:roll:


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> I do believe that he didn't ask *IF*he should breed but at what point during her heat he should breed. That is two totally different things and probably why he is unresponsive to us telling him not to breed.


You shouldn't cause you have no idea wen or what your doing!


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Yes I know that you and know that but that isn't waht he asked. Then everyone jumps on him for something he didn't ask. Not the best way to win someone over to your way of thinking.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

Yea!!!, just what we need. Another BYB, that doesn't know...


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

LadyRampage said:


> Your right, I didn't think of that..
> 
> In that case, you should breed on their 6th heat cycle, and on the 22 day of bleeding...:roll:


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::goodpost::goodpost::clap:
ROTFLMFAO DEFF WAS LIKE BAHAHAHA


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## LadyRampage (Apr 11, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> Yes I know that you and know that but that isn't waht he asked. Then everyone jumps on him for something he didn't ask. Not the best way to win someone over to your way of thinking.


Again you are exactly right, but personally I think this was worded to purposefully get a rise out of everyone, especially with all the justification that was been given. Someone that is secure in what they are doing (breeding good dogs together) and has researched all over the net and KNOWS, why on earth would they post a question on when to breed their dog on a message board with mostly people that rescue?

I stand by all my responses. He has a very young dog that is on her 2nd heat cycle, has been told by his VET that its ok, and is going to do it, BUT when he posted on an open forum he should be able to handle the feedback he gets. I don't remember myself, or anyone else getting disrespectful, just trying to educate. Wait, I take that back I did do 1 smarty comment on breeding on the 6 cycle and on day 22...but I still stick by it.


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## Drakzen (Aug 2, 2010)

This is an interesting topic that finds its way into this board ever so often. But what most of the members here fail to realize is that has going to breed whither we like it or not. If he has all the appropriate permits from his city of course, he is under law allowed to breed to his hearts content. Is it right,probably not, but it is his right and by nature dogs are meant to reproduce :woof: but i wont get into that debate today.


What i would like to know is when does a bybr become a reputable breeder? Surely this is possible? Are better yet how do you define a reputable breeder because surely you cant began off as a reputable breeder if you didnt follow this? First you must have years experience with the breed ex( shadowing a breeder for at least a few years( often times during late nights, and have experienced 10 heat cycles that resulted in birth and the occasional death), owning the breed and gaining a knowledge of faults, behavior, characteristic's(which takes multiple years), researching the breed( college level research not just internet searches ) and setting up the proper facility's for the dogs and having enough money to finance the health expenses of multiple dogs. All of this is before you ever breed your own pets. I would like to see a show of hands of the reputable breeders that went to close to these steps before they started breeding their own pets.Or was it just trial and error? Talk is big and words hold great impact but the reality of the situation is another thing entirely.

BYB isn't the whole problem, the problem lives in every one of you who chase byb'rs from the forums who are only looking for information in the right way of breeding. YES they are wrong but who do you hurt more the byb by not informing them or the dog's? I think the latter, and this is very sad.Byb cannot be combated effectively this way, for these people possess the same rights as a reputable breeder if given the knowledge about the proper way to breed the problem solves itself.

This may make some of you angry but its the cold hard truth.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Drakzen, while you do prove a good point, we're doing our best to educate, with all the information provided here about the possibilities of what could potentially happen.

And in answer to your question, there are very FEW actual breeders of the reputable kind on this forum. Most of us either own pets and are spayed/neutered, rescues also spayed/neutered, or participate/compete with our dogs, but still don't breed them! Hence why we can preach this stuff to the people who come on here asking questions about breeding with the "It's my dog, I'll do what I want with it" attitude.

Also, yes I believe it is possible for a BYB to learn from their mistakes and convert over to being a responsible breeder, but their record will still be tarnished, to some, b/c of the mistakes they made in the beginning.

I can honestly say, that I too was once a BYB. I bred one litter and stopped there. I've not bred a dog, or even considered breeding a dog, since then. That was 9-10 yrs ago now! Once I was made aware of the issues at hand, i.e., overpopulation, health issues, etc. I decided breeding wasn't for me, and better left to the professionals, or more experienced/more knowledgeable people out there in the world. I can still love the breed, own the breed, work with the breed and not breed 2 dogs together just because they look pretty. Unfortunately, not everyone has the same mindset as myself, nor will they see things the same why you, I or most of the members of this forum see things. All we can do is try to educate, and hope they retain some, if not all of the information made available to them here, and also hope/pray they learn from their mistakes.

Don't worry, when the bitch gets an infection or STD from the male, or has complications during the labor, or loses pups for unknown reasons, maybe that will be enough for the OP to realize that what we said here was the truth and that he should have NEVER ventured down that path. *Now, I'm not wishing any ill will on the OP, the bitch, stud or possible future litter.* I'm just simply saying that unfortunately, it takes something extreme, most of the time, for someone to learn from their mistakes and to know they should've listened to the ones who know, that they specifically came to and asked for advice/opinions/help.


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## Drakzen (Aug 2, 2010)

Yes you are very correct i use to stay on farmland and Ive witness the breeding of several litter of pups (not apbt) from breeder's who have breed for generations but still i understand that breeding is a more complicated than people are aware of.

Personally I think the lust for a quick buck has a lot to due with the whole byb deal. Ironically however, you will spend 10 times more than you will ever make breeding unless of course you find a sucker or well you have a champion line of dog.

I do agree with you and everything you said but there is just so much finger pointing, and I would hate for the litter of puppy's to die or be born defective as a result.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LadyRampage said:


> Again you are exactly right, but personally I think this was worded to purposefully get a rise out of everyone, especially with all the justification that was been given. Someone that is secure in what they are doing (breeding good dogs together) and has researched all over the net and KNOWS, why on earth would they post a question on when to breed their dog on a message board with mostly people that rescue?
> 
> I stand by all my responses. He has a very young dog that is on her 2nd heat cycle, has been told by his VET that its ok, and is going to do it, BUT when he posted on an open forum he should be able to handle the feedback he gets. I don't remember myself, or anyone else getting disrespectful, just trying to educate. Wait, I take that back I did do 1 smarty comment on breeding on the 6 cycle and on day 22...but I still stick by it.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

I am still trying to figure out how the OP could ask the questions he asked and think that he is in any position to breed in the first place. My answer to both of these questions is if you have to ask about these things you shouldn't be breeding let alone the many other reasons you were given on this thread that you obviously haven't taken into account prior to planning to breed your dogs.

The Op's ?'s and he want's to breed his dogs? Get the heck out of here. Sad part is .. he will breed them anyway because he's being selfish he is not thinking about the welfare of the breed and his dogs. He is only thinking about himself. 

My dog is in her 2nd heat. I was wondering when do you know she is ready to breed?

Also when she is done licking herself she does this biting thing and you can see the muscles on top of her head contract lol. Maybe it taste bad, or she is tryin to chew it?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Drakzen said:


> I would hate for the litter of puppy's to die or be born defective as a result.


This may sound harsh but it's reality if something like this were to happen maybe it would teach him a thing or two a lesson that just because you have the power to breed your dogs doesn't mean you should. The best thing that could happen is that these pups are never born. It's a crying shame that people can be so selfish it's one thing when you don't have someone telling you why it's not a good idea some people breed and don't have the support and knowledge handed to them like they get on this forum. But it's another to know it's wrong as everyone on this forum has given him all the reasons why it's wrong and has given him the facts of why breeding should only be done by pro's with a purpose. Yet in still he continues to justify his own selfish reasons because he doesn't care he wants to breed regardless even after multiple knowledgable people/ established breeders have told him not to do this. Therefore If his pups die as a result he is the only person to blame as it's been pointed out that he is in NO position to breed anything!


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Cant believe this is still going lol, but glad I have a couple who can see both sides of the situation. Yall are making me out to be a retard. And by yalls beliefs I probably am, but the only thing I asked is to know when the bitch is at her fertile stage? That is not stupid and actually there is no "sure" way without a canine ovulation test. This is the 1st female dog I have ever owned. And when your wanting to breed its more difficult than seeing blood and knowing she's in heat than when to breed. And I liked a lot of what Drazken had to say. to answer the question about why I should breed her. There is nothing uncommon about my dog that makes her stand out from any other dog on paper. As of this moment Im not breeding for show dogs, or weight pull, or any other competitions. And the people who get my pups wont be doing any of that either, so all these standards do no matter to the soon to be owners. No if someone like most of you came looking to buy a dog from me that wanted to compete would know to look else where. Right now in my life its something that I have to experience. Thats the essence of life. You learn as you go. I may not like anything about this and wish I didnt do it. Or I may become addicted and want to gain more knowledge and set a goal for a certain standard and go for that. I believe all dogs can excel at a lot of these competitions and do not have to come from a reputable breeder, or be bred for that purpose. It being in its blood may help a little, but its not guaranteed success. I think in time if I was to stick to it I would breed just for show and, or WP. No need to worry about my pups cause if the new owners cant do it I will gladly take them back before I let anything bad to happen to my dogs. I own lots of APBT books and do lots of research, though I may not be knowledgeable enough for yalls liking does not mean I wont successful in time. Im very passionate at what I do. And have a great love for dogs and these breed in particular even though you will disagree b/c Im a BYB now, but all breeders start as that. And these dogs do not have to have titles to breed, though if they are capable of that task they should be giving the chance to shine. And like I said a few post back. Even a lot of dogs with titles aren't particularly the best even though they have titles that say so, it could have been a fluke due to the competition. Next people will argue that dogs should only be bred from "record" setting dogs. And wheather it matters or not my dog came from a line with LOTS of CH and GC. Anyway Good day to you all and hope you all have a merry Christmas


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Sadie said:


> This may sound harsh but it's reality if something like this were to happen maybe it would teach him a thing or two a lesson that just because you have the power to breed your dogs doesn't mean you should. The best thing that could happen is that these pups are never born. It's a crying shame that people can be so selfish it's one thing when you don't have someone telling you why it's not a good idea some people breed and don't have the support and knowledge handed to them like they get on this forum. But it's another to know it's wrong as everyone on this forum has given him all the reasons why it's wrong and has given him the facts of why breeding should only be done by pro's with a purpose. Yet in still he continues to justify his own selfish reasons because he doesn't care he wants to breed regardless even after multiple knowledgable people/ established breeders have told him not to do this. Therefore If his pups die as a result he is the only person to blame as it's been pointed out that he is in NO position to breed anything!


Why are they going to die? B/c Im a BYB? Dogs have not always had to rely on humans to breed and raise pups. It is in their nature. And it seems God intended them to breed when in heat. I know that there is risks at hand, there is risks we face everyday, but we cant live in fear. Yall could get behind me and try and help with what IM doing instead of being so negative about it


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

See your wanting to breed is stoping you from seeing that we are behind you trying to offer support even if it's not giving you the answers you want to hear. But your not being open minded your focus is only on one thing that is breeding your dogs regardless of what we have shared with you and why this is not a good idea we have given you all the facts and you refuse to accept them. So that leads me to believe you don't care. I don't have time for someone who doesn't care or who is not willing to listen even if it means putting their selfish needs and wants aside to hear the truth. I really do wish you the best of luck. But I don't agree or support anything your doing. Therefore I have nothing else to offer you in this thread. Best of Luck and Happy Holidays!


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## LadyRampage (Apr 11, 2009)

Jrama I honest didn't post anything to be disrespectful, I poked a little fun on one of my last posts, but for the most part I was trying to be very straight forward with you.

I started out knowing next to nothing about APBTs, my husband on the other hand grew up with them, so when I wanted a good house dog guess what we got? It took close to 6 months for him to find a breeder and pup that he would consider, and I almost choked when he shelled out $500 for a pup. I can tell you that if that dog sneezed he was at the vet being looked over..lol Everyone starts somewhere, I did breed my dogs and still do without titles, but I don't breed pets. I breed with a clear goal and understanding on what I'm producing, which is a new generation that is BETTER than their parents. I want a dog that can do anything its asked, an intelligent, hard working animal, that follows the breed standard. I show most of my dogs, and do decent, I'm now working on taking my show dogs into weight pull. Most people say the show dogs can't stay up with those dogs bred specifically for weight pull, but I really believe mine can give them a run. Ok, rambling a bit... Its just that there are so many people out there breeding dogs, just because the parents are good, but there are so many factors that should be involved as well, as pointed out by quite a few members. My main focus has to deal with overpopulation and the media. I cringe every time a news article or report comes on about an APBT bitting someone, I fight against BSL, and the constant "pit bulls are killers" mentality. Alot of those dogs are results of poor breeding practices.

Breed your dogs, just be responsible for the offspring. I'm not just talking about finding homes, I'm talking about making sure they are in a good situation for the rest of that dogs LIFE. Be honest to yourself as well, if you see problems with any of the puppies (as in health or temperament) do the right thing. Good luck


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Seriously if you have to come here and ask all these questions about breeding you shouldn't be breeding period. And NO not all breeders start out as BYB's. If you really want to start a breeding program then you should have a goal set. Breeding just to breed is not a goal and neither is having cute pups. When you start a breeding program you should have a mentor, a reputable breeder who can help you learn about genetics, bloodlines, and goals for your dogs. Also health testing is so so important, and I'm not talking about vet check ups. I mean hip and elbow scores, heart checks, and many other things. You want to also check your stud as well and make sure he is not in the position to pass on genetic defects and other things that can cause the pups to have complications. 

P.S. I had to say LMAO @ your comment about my dog looking like a great dane. That's just funny.


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

Okay so you still have not awnserd my question, BUT that is not my point the things you are saying make NO sence as to why anyone would "not breed to the breed standrad" why not go get a jack russel terrier and mix it with your pit? as pups they will look almost exactly like a pit and will grow up "out of standard" just like your are trying to do by "not breeding to standard" your SAYING you want to make "pits" just so everone around you can have "pits" and that you never want them to amount to anything? Is that how the people who "want" these pups feel too? because thats a pretty low expectation of getting a pup. I was 6 and had my 80 pound dob learning to stack and how to do comands because I wanted to show. I plan to show and then breed my dogs if they are worthy in the ring. or should I just say everyone wants a pup and need it to keep their deer and peigons off their yard and have been asked to contact. I have 13+ people on pages in my calender who want nice correct puppies if I ever do plan to breed. that does NOT mean im gonna pop out pups just for them to have a nothing dog. It just bewilders me how ALOT of people just breed to have puppies. My bfs buddy is doing the SAME thing because his dog is blue and his friends is tri so they want to make more blue and tri pups. The male is ALRIGHT looking and is a "pocket" but his female is a POS but its alright we will sit and watch and respond as we should to "help" you on your adventure thru breeding your female!! and then you keep a male and female pup and someone brings back a female and the male breeds to them and the momma and you have 10-50 pups in 13 months and dont know what to do,,,, but its okay we NEED more "pets" in america. FOR SURE. sorry im ranting I do hope I didnt say anything to mean thats not how I want to sound it just makes me upset that dispite ALL the GREAT ADVICE and REASONS NOT TO BREED you still want to and still are going to and with no reason ? (you still have not given the reasons why your male and female are so great at being "petbulls")


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

truepits92 said:


> Okay so you still have not awnserd my question, BUT that is not my point the things you are saying make NO sence as to why anyone would "not breed to the breed standrad" why not go get a jack russel terrier and mix it with your pit? as pups they will look almost exactly like a pit and will grow up "out of standard" just like your are trying to do by "not breeding to standard" your SAYING you want to make "pits" just so everone around you can have "pits" and that you never want them to amount to anything? Is that how the people who "want" these pups feel too? because thats a pretty low expectation of getting a pup. I was 6 and had my 80 pound dob learning to stack and how to do comands because I wanted to show. I plan to show and then breed my dogs if they are worthy in the ring. or should I just say everyone wants a pup and need it to keep their deer and peigons off their yard and have been asked to contact. I have 13+ people on pages in my calender who want nice correct puppies if I ever do plan to breed. that does NOT mean im gonna pop out pups just for them to have a nothing dog. It just bewilders me how ALOT of people just breed to have puppies. My bfs buddy is doing the SAME thing because his dog is blue and his friends is tri so they want to make more blue and tri pups. The male is ALRIGHT looking and is a "pocket" but his female is a POS but its alright we will sit and watch and respond as we should to "help" you on your adventure thru breeding your female!! and then you keep a male and female pup and someone brings back a female and the male breeds to them and the momma and you have 10-50 pups in 13 months and dont know what to do,,,, but its okay we NEED more "pets" in america. FOR SURE. sorry im ranting I do hope I didnt say anything to mean thats not how I want to sound it just makes me upset that dispite ALL the GREAT ADVICE and REASONS NOT TO BREED you still want to and still are going to and with no reason ? (you still have not given the reasons why your male and female are so great at being "petbulls")


BC it would not be an APBT. BC ppl are happy with just a pure bred APBT that is registered. Your acting like if a dog aint perfect it shouldnt be born. Even these so called professional breeders are going to get pups that aint of "standard" from the dogs they call standard. Standards are I guess what the person who created this breed had in mind for the ideal dog. They have changed in so many ways since then and its not all BYB fault. I bet even though Im not a PRO I can still get a dog that can fit standard tradition. its called genes. Just bc 1 dog's chest aint deep enough, or its tail is jacked up, or it has an over, or under bite dont mean its not going to produce quality pups. My goal is to now take one of my pups from its non title parents and it is going to qualify in something. The thing is with most BYB is that they are not picky and dont care as long as its 2 pits thats pure bred they will breed them. I am picky.

Tell me what separates a titled dog from a non titled dog? NOTHING its for show and bragging rights. Other than that you have ppl who are stupid enough to pay more as some are stupid enough to pay more for a blue, or female. A title is just that its literally a title. Your too hung up on that mainstream stuff. I live in the south its totally different here I guess b/c all this over population and other stuff yall speak of is only what I see on tv. My neighborhood has about 4 APBT's in it an none are titled probably. And you know what? There owners are happy pit bull owners b/c of its breed, not its title.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Jrama said:


> BC it would not be an APBT. BC ppl are happy with just a pure bred APBT that is registered. Your acting like if a dog aint perfect it shouldnt be born. Even these so called professional breeders are going to get pups that aint of "standard" from the dogs they call standard. Standards are I guess what the person who created this breed had in mind for the ideal dog. They have changed in so many ways since then and its not all BYB fault. I bet even though Im not a PRO I can still get a dog that can fit standard tradition. its called genes. Just bc 1 dog's chest aint deep enough, or its tail is jacked up, or it has an over, or under bite dont mean its not going to produce quality pups. My goal is to now take one of my pups from its non title parents and it is going to qualify in something. The thing is with most BYB is that they are not picky and dont care as long as its 2 pits thats pure bred they will breed them. I am picky.


i have a dog that from untitled parents is going to be come champion. But you say you are picky then you would not breed sub par dogs. The purpose of breeding dogs is to produce the best dogs around. That does not mean a whole litter of Bad dogs to get one good. I for one understand a great dog can come from two that are not titled, Because the breeders had great dog but did not title them. So I challenge you post picks or videos of the parents and tell me what makes you think they should be bred.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

the difference between a titled dog is that some one has made sure it is sound. Every thing the breed should be. Cared for and the breeders cared enough to go out and prove it. It is easy to see if the dog has the correct body structure in the show ring. So that is why show titles are good. Obedience title means the dog has temperament and so on. I


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

All Im tryin to say is that IF people want a certain quality, or standard they will go get it. For others its just the breed they are after. So if your gonna get in to WP well your gonna go after that. If someone wants a S&R dog they will go after that. But people who aint doing it dont care what it does as long as it looks how they want it. Like ppl who like bullys. Dude came up with RE bloodline. I think most of them I see are garbage. They are way too short and too long and too thick to be what a APBT stands for. More like a wennie dog on steroids. On the other hand some look good. The dogs I will creat wont have flaws to the avg. person. Your speaking of things that only judges know to look for. Unless your in the ring who cares


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

You are right about dogs from pro kennels. There are many dogs that come from a breeding of great parents and they just don't fit the program. That doesn't make them any less of dogs but when they are sold they go under a spay/neuter contract and go to pet homes. Just because they are both registered doesn't make them good breeding stock. I'm not trying to insult you or your dog in any way at all. I myself, like most others here are just very passionate about this breed and what is happening to it. I don't believe in breeding with out a purpose, and I think it should always be bettering the breed. Please take what people here have said into consideration, and If you really do want to get into breeding go to a few shows and find a good mentor to help you out and teach you.


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Rudy4747 said:


> the difference between a titled dog is that some one has made sure it is sound. Every thing the breed should be. Cared for and the breeders cared enough to go out and prove it. It is easy to see if the dog has the correct body structure in the show ring. So that is why show titles are good. Obedience title means the dog has temperament and so on. I


And its just for "SHOW" and "bragging" rights. I dont need anyone to give me a ribbon, or title to tell me my dog behaves. She sits, shakes, waves, plays dead, comes, goes, stays, lays, and rolls over. She is polite around others and when ppl eat. Im sure I could teach her more to impress my friends, but thats about all she needs


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

kg420 said:


> You are right about dogs from pro kennels. There are many dogs that come from a breeding of great parents and they just don't fit the program. That doesn't make them any less of dogs but when they are sold they go under a spay/neuter contract and go to pet homes. Just because they are both registered doesn't make them good breeding stock. I'm not trying to insult you or your dog in any way at all. I myself, like most others here are just very passionate about this breed and what is happening to it. I don't believe in breeding with out a purpose, and I think it should always be bettering the breed. Please take what people here have said into consideration, and If you really do want to get into breeding go to a few shows and find a good mentor to help you out and teach you.


That's what I have been trying to tell yall. There aint any shows around here. About a year ago they had a BULLY show at our trade center. That's it.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Jrama said:


> All Im tryin to say is that IF people want a certain quality, or standard they will go get it. For others its just the breed they are after. So if your gonna get in to WP well your gonna go after that. If someone wants a S&R dog they will go after that. But people who aint doing it dont care what it does as long as it looks how they want it. Like ppl who like bullys. Dude came up with RE bloodline. I think most of them I see are garbage. They are way too short and too long and too thick to be what a APBT stands for. More like a wennie dog on steroids. On the other hand some look good. The dogs I will creat wont have flaws to the avg. person. Your speaking of things that only judges know to look for. Unless your in the ring who cares


What about genetic flaws that can cause brain damage. You have to look at all possibilities. They could have a defect causing seizures or other brain disfunctions that can cause the dog to become aggressive to the people who they love the most. I have personally seen this happen, and it can be very scary. Dogs like that who look great and have no flaws in looks that end up suffering from brain disfunction end up being the ones who snap and give all of them the bad press. This is why BSL is coming down on us and our dogs every day. Please take all this into consideration.


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Rudy4747 said:


> the difference between a titled dog is that some one has made sure it is sound. Every thing the breed should be. Cared for and the breeders cared enough to go out and prove it. It is easy to see if the dog has the correct body structure in the show ring. So that is why show titles are good. Obedience title means the dog has temperament and so on. I


But one can take a reg. APBT and TRAIN it and it can thrive in that activity. There is dogs not even registered to do the same, but wont get the chance. As I said my dog comes from a line of Falin GC and Champions lots of WP titles. Im sure I could get mine into it and used to want to, but nothing goes on around me that I have ever found. I have searched the net. I was gonna let her pull just to keep her in shape and for her to do something constructive, but decided not to


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

kg420 said:


> What about genetic flaws that can cause brain damage. You have to look at all possibilities. They could have a defect causing seizures or other brain disfunctions that can cause the dog to become aggressive to the people who they love the most. I have personally seen this happen, and it can be very scary. Dogs like that who look great and have no flaws in looks that end up suffering from brain disfunction end up being the ones who snap and give all of them the bad press. This is why BSL is coming down on us and our dogs every day. Please take all this into consideration.


Then like any other dog they need to be put down. But you cant say thats only gonna happen to BYBing. I have listened and I have spoke my mind. I have already dropped my bitch off with the stud. Its a done deal:clap: Im very excited so yall chill. Ill be the first to tell yall if you were right.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

No that doesn't always happen in BYBing but it goes further that that. You have to make sure that they are never going to be bred in the first place so they can't pass it on down the line.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

omg I have not commented onthis thread, dude, you should be ashamed, but wahtever, you are takin delight in all these responses you are getting, you came here to start this, JMO, it seems like you don't care and just wanna pump out more unwatned dogs, seriously *smh* here, is quite sad and the dogs don't deserve it. Ok sooo walking away from this thread.


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## SuthernStyles (Nov 7, 2009)

Jrama said:


> And its just for "SHOW" and "bragging" rights. I dont need anyone to give me a ribbon, or title to tell me my dog behaves. She sits, shakes, waves, plays dead, comes, goes, stays, lays, and rolls over. She is polite around others and when ppl eat. Im sure I could teach her more to impress my friends, but thats about all she needs


Oh yea she likes to hunt lol

Ill say look, Keyla and she gets really alert. Ill say go get it and she will try to catch it, birds and squirrels mostly. Still fun to watch when she trees one lol She is very smart. Seriously. I taught her to sit at 7 weeks in about 5 mins it seemed like


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Okay, I'll say this as nicely and bluntly as possible. Just b/c your dog's got champions and grand champions in her pedigree does NOT mean she is worthy of being bred. And just b/c she can do some really cool tricks that impress your friends does NOT mean she should be bred! You say there's no shows around you... but it sounds to me like you're looking for something to be right there in the town you live in. You think all these shows put on year round that breeders/handlers go to and compete in are in their locale? No, they're not, they have to TRAVEL to get there. Sometimes it's a short distance, and sometimes it's halfway across the freaking country! If you don't feel you should enter your dog into competitions to prove the dog's ability to function, perform and EARN it's keep, then there's no reason that bitch should be bred. The breeder you got your dog from, is this how they operate their "kennel" as well? Hmm... seems to me you're just dead set on breeding your bitch here, regardless of the information we've provided you. We've given you countless reasons why you SHOULD NOT breed her, first and foremost b/c you don't know WHEN to breed her, not to mention the grossly overpopulated shelters/rescues all over the country, even though they don't seem to exist in your town. Nevermind all the possible health issues that you're not even worried about testing for, or the fact that the "stud" you plan to use could have an STD that could STERILIZE your bitch! We've tried to educate you, and you're still not seeing the bigger picture here. As Sadie said, you're being selfish, so we're done here. If need be, I will close this thread as it's just going down hill from here. Thanks for a wonderful debate, and hopefully someone else will come along and read all this and learn from it and have a change of heart about breeding their "good" dog later on down the line. Best of luck to ya and Happy Holidays.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I wanted to close this thread myself as I see no reason for it to continue it's obvious that the OP is going to tell US why his dogs should be bred. And there really is no reason to continue to try and help someone who clearly does not want to be helped. I think this thread has reached is limit though.


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

Ladies, haven't you learned to recognize when a man is trying to get a rise out of you by now? This is the typical young person trying to assert his independence and no one is gonna tell him what to do. Unfortunately this is your average APBT owner.


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## Bruce TGPs (Dec 24, 2010)

I know most of you do not know me, I do not get on the forums much and I think some of you are awful hard on some of the people that post here, BUT NOT IN THIS CASE!!! First off who are you to say your carrying on Eddie Falins breedings? Eddie forgot more on his first breeding than apparently you will ever learn. I have a yard full of falin dogs WITH TITLES, does that mean i need to just jump out there and breed any bitch that comes in heat NO IT DOES NOT! And I would like to know who let you have one of Eddies dogs because you certainly do not deserve it. If I did accidently let you have one of my dogs i would be there picking it up right now before you ruined her since you would have signed a contract allowing me to repo the dog for breeding before 2 years of age. As for there not being many apbt in the shelter I will agree with you because at the shelter here they automaticly put all pit bulls to sleep and will not let you adopt them because of agressive ban. You need to chill and learn before you decide to take up something you know nothing about :hammer::hammer::hammer: guess i,m banned now


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## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

WHY NOT BREED TO STANDARD???? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!! WHY NOT GO BREED CHIPOOS OR SUMTHING?? SO, the dog MEN not 1 person buddy old pal who sat down and said "These are our BEST pits and these are how all pit bulls should look because it is the best struture and dosent break down over the years and has ALL the things they need to work hard, stay strong and be sound in 15 years after a long life" LET US ALLLLL JUST THROW THAT OUT THE WINDOW RIGHT??? Hey everyone THE GREAT DOG MEN OF YESTERYEAR KNEW NOTHING ... LETS REWRITE THE BOOKS AND SCRATCH OFF THE PAPERS AND START BREEDING FOR THIs KIND OF PIT I THINK HE HAS IT ALL CORRECT... SIKE MAN SIKE SIKE SIKE... MAN I wish I never looked at this therd and I wish you never responded to me. I hope your non pit bull standard pits find good REAL PET HOMES and never get bred and that your female for what ever reason needs to be spayed soon because we dont need any untrue pits and you forget that someone may want a registered pit bull to show it, see you jump around with your storie way to much, you say that they may want a registered pit to just have one? THEN LET THEM SAVE ONE, there is PLEANTY OF APBT LITTERS BORN IN SHELTERS ALL OVER SOME EVEN ARE CLOSE TO HAVEING PAPERS OR DO HAVE THEM SO YOU CANT EVEN ARGUE THAT ONE, PEOPLE SURRENDER DOGS WITH THEIR PAPERS EVERY DAY. I say save your bitch the hardship of beeing bred and go buy a puppy from a reputable breeder or SHOW YOUR DOG, TRAIN HER, LET HER BE A DOG!!!! then when her time has come and she is all she can be good or not and you know her defects and you find a male lacking what she has and haveing what she lacks who has proven himself THEN only then will we respect your dission untill then I would keep it to yourself about what you do because the fact that we try SOOO hard to keep the lines tight and to prove what our dogs can be and you AND OTHERS just breed breed breed breed breed JUST FOR PETS makes me sick. MODS delete if you want SORRY


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Jrama said:


> And its just for "SHOW" and "bragging" rights. I dont need anyone to give me a ribbon, or title to tell me my dog behaves. She sits, shakes, waves, plays dead, comes, goes, stays, lays, and rolls over. She is polite around others and when ppl eat. Im sure I could teach her more to impress my friends, but thats about all she needs


If I had a penny for every one who said man Rudy you should come look at the dog I got she could be a champ she is well behaved and can be trained to do anything. I show up and feel like I wasted my time. So if the dogs were titled I would know that they have already been evaluated. Any one who tells me they need some one to title their dog. I say well you either don't care enough or you know she does not have what it takes.


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Well I'm gonna put a few more words into this thread then I'm gonna call it quits because I refuse to further acknowledge someone who does not RESPECT THIS BREED AND ALL OF THE LEGAL ISSUES THAT SURROUND IT... 

First you made a comment about original RE dogs being fat and short and well you don't know what the eff you are talking about... Original RE dogs were pretty standard but you would know that if you knew anything about this breed...

Secondly your dogs are nothing but mutts or culls if you like until they have their own titles... They are not worthy to breed just because their papers are pretty with GC and CH...

I'm going to be as nice as possible... YOU ARE A BACKYARD BREEDER AND THE WORST KIND BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW JACK ABOUT THESE DOGS AND AREN'T WILLING TO LEARN MAKING YOU THE WORST OF THE BOTTOM OF THE SCUM BUCKET...

I'm sure I will get an infraction here but oh well...

For those of you saying "oh we should just educate him on what he asked then maybe he will be responsible". YOU ARE FULL OF YOU KNOW WHAT!!!! I'm gonna tell you right now that I fight too dang hard EVERYDAY to do my part in educating and saving and preserving this breed and I watch too many die because of idiots like this to say "oh you want help contributing to the problem oh here let me help you". Because I am supposed to be nice NOPE NOT GONNA HAPPEN 

Now If you guys wanna be nice and indulge and condone this fool by all means go ahead but you absolutely will not see me doing it!


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## Bruce TGPs (Dec 24, 2010)

As A wise man once said { YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!!!}


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> I'm sure I will get an infraction here but oh well...
> 
> For those of you saying "oh we should just educate him on what he asked then maybe he will be responsible". YOU ARE FULL OF YOU KNOW WHAT!!!! I'm gonna tell you right now that I fight too dang hard EVERYDAY to do my part in educating and saving and preserving this breed and I watch too many die because of idiots like this to say "oh you want help contributing to the problem oh here let me help you". Because I am supposed to be nice NOPE NOT GONNA HAPPEN
> 
> Now If you guys wanna be nice and indulge and condone this fool by all means go ahead but you absolutely will not see me doing it!


LOL you won't get an infraction from me .... this guy is a turd for doing what he is doing ... I believe being nice will only get you so far. With people like this you can't be nice he doesn't even think there is a problem with what he is doing. I am not mad Sarge you have every right to be pissed off because this stuff both indirectly and directly effects all of our dogs and us owners. On that note I think I will close this thread because it's no longer going anywhere the OP refuses to listen to the advice given. So let him learn the hard way sometimes that is what it takes to get ones attention. The sad part is there are people who breed that don't have the pleasure of getting all this great info they go into it blinded and have to learn the hard way you have been given the opportunity and the free knowledge you need to make the right choices and what do you do with it? Spit it back in the face of every good member here who only wants the best for your dogs and the breed. Don't say we didn't tell you so when it all comes tumbling down it will happen it's inevitable. Keep doing things the wrong way and you will keep getting the same bad results. Nothing good can come out of what your doing with those dogs.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Jrama said:


> My dog is in her 2nd heat. I was wondering when do you know she is ready to breed? I found a stud I am going to mate her with and supposed to take her there fri. or sat. and leave her for a week. She still aint swollen MUCH and just barely bleeding. I have noticed she has been lickin her self for about a week and hoping I don't miss the right time for her to breed.
> 
> Also when she is done licking herself she does this biting thing and you can see the muscles on top of her head contract lol. Maybe it taste bad, or she is tryin to chew it?





Jrama said:


> I know there is a lot at risk. And I cant say I blame yall for trying to get me and others like me to NOT do it. I appreciate the majority of you for trying to to protect and preserve this breed. And to prevent future events, but yall against it also have to realize that not every person new to breeding is going to be a failure, or add to the negatives this breed already faces.
> 
> Also the stud is clean and this wont be his first rodeo. He is an actual stud. Now I will go read the rest of your reply and maybe come back with more answers.





Jrama said:


> What if I just want a house full of puppies? lol j/k But not everyone is in to show, or competition. That may be the best, or only reason in some peoples opinion to breed, but dont make it right, or wrong. If everyone only bred for these reasons the dog really would die out.
> * And there actually is lots of GCH in my bitch's pedigree.* That is encouraging. But Im not going to be doing any weight pull comps, etc cause they are not around me. The APBT is not only for the ring today. They also make great family pets and that is another reason to breed. Maybe not for you and lots of others here, but to each his own. No1 can stop it.
> *Mine has GCH and CH in her ped. Her pups could be as well, or I could say that Im just continuing Falin's work.* This is a topic that cant be won. Its all based on opinions unless there is wrong in it some how then its obvious. But different strokes for different folks





Jrama said:


> And I took that into consideration and waited til her 2nd heat. I know someone is gonna say 2yrs, or longer, but even my vet said 2nd heat





Jrama said:


> Again not everyone wants a dog that competes or is show worthy.Which yall are pretty much implying is the only reason to breed. *And as I said she has lots of GCH adn CH in her ped. Lots of WP titles. She is of Falin*. So I could argue that people looking for that kind of could be pleased. Is she a GCH or a CH? No but her grandparents are and thats good enough for me.





Jrama said:


> but the only thing I asked is to know when the bitch is at her fertile stage?
> This is the 1st female dog I have ever owned. And when your wanting to breed its more difficult than seeing blood and knowing she's in heat than when to breed.
> There is nothing uncommon about my dog that makes her stand out from any other dog on paper. As of this moment Im not breeding for show dogs, or weight pull, or any other competitions. And the people who get my pups wont be doing any of that either, so all these standards do no matter to the soon to be owners. No if someone like most of you came looking to buy a dog from me that wanted to compete would know to look else where. Right now in my life its something that I have to experience. Thats the essence of life. You learn as you go. I may not like anything about this and wish I didnt do it. Or I may become addicted and want to gain more knowledge and set a goal for a certain standard and go for that. I believe all dogs can excel at a lot of these competitions and do not have to come from a reputable breeder, or be bred for that purpose. It being in its blood may help a little, but its not guaranteed success. I think in time if I was to stick to it I would breed just for show and, or WP.





Jrama said:


> Standards are I guess what the person who created this breed had in mind for the ideal dog. They have changed in so many ways since then and its not all BYB fault. I bet even though Im not a PRO I can still get a dog that can fit standard tradition. its called genes. Just bc 1 dog's chest aint deep enough, or its tail is jacked up, or it has an over, or under bite dont mean its not going to produce quality pups. My goal is to now take one of my pups from its non title parents and it is going to qualify in something. The thing is with most BYB is that they are not picky and dont care as long as its 2 pits thats pure bred they will breed them. I am picky.





Jrama said:


> *As I said my dog comes from a line of Falin GC and Champions lots of WP titles.*




So you decide to just breed your dog becasue of someone elses work? This irritates me more than anything. If you have some real reason for breeding I don't care if you have titles on the dogs, but have a real PURPOSE for what you are creating. Just to add some more cute pets is a BS excuse from a byb'er.

There is a big difference from people like myself that start as BYB'ERS, but when proper education and guidance is offered they better themselves and their breeding's. Rather than yourself who is dead set on being a byb'er and has no care to learn and better yourself.

When you are offered the education before you breed the litter, shove it aside and then still breed.....


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Get em Holly


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> Well I'm gonna put a few more words into this thread then I'm gonna call it quits because I refuse to further acknowledge someone who does not RESPECT THIS BREED AND ALL OF THE LEGAL ISSUES THAT SURROUND IT...
> 
> First you made a comment about original RE dogs being fat and short and well you don't know what the eff you are talking about... Original RE dogs were pretty standard but you would know that if you knew anything about this breed...
> 
> ...


No infractions from me either. I know exactly how you are feeling right now. There is a group of us here in my town who do our best every day to educate the public on this breed. I have gone and talked to a whole class of kids with Dosia and I think we really got through to a lot of them. There were quite a few who had that bad mentality from their parents but spending a day with Dosia changed a few minds. Also it's the pups like the ones he is going to produce that end up sitting i the pound waiting for their turn in the back room. It's horrible and very sad. We have helped many of them get out and find homes but we can't save them all. If people like this would stop breeding their dogs for no reason with no goal, then there wouldn't be as many of them in the shelters. It really brings tears to my eyes every day I see them in there looking lost and sad. I have spent many nights crying about the ones who really deserved loving homes and never got the chance to find them. It's really horrible and heartbreaking to watch this happening.


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