# very good question



## tribulliez91 (Oct 6, 2010)

lauren i would rele like your input on this one. what do you guys think of that bully miagi. ive been on other boards and they act like hes the best since sliced bread.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

He lacks breed type for an American Bully and APBT. I think he has achondroplasia aka dwarfism.


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## tribulliez91 (Oct 6, 2010)

so he is all bully?


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## SMiGGs (Jul 6, 2011)

He was shown at the Fresno ABKC show, and he didnt even place nothing. Matter of fact the judge felt offended. All the hype this dog has is amazing, threads like this only add to this ugly fame. 

Is he bully, yeah. Is he ABKC/UKC Bully, no.


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## tribulliez91 (Oct 6, 2010)

I meant as in the fact as is he purebred n not mixed?


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## rodrigo (Jun 28, 2011)

i have a question......what defines a breed? 

basically if its stamped in a book right?

because even myself having a pure bred full pedigree going back to 1800s etc etc ....have a mutt of a terrier and a bull dog.......

so my question ...and i am not trying to be offensive....how do u label something a breed if technically they are just crosses of x amount of other breeds and y amount of % of this vs that breed mixed in.....


help me understand a little more clearly....because this obsession with purity sometimes leaves a bitter taste in my mouth when i see the fight for status that goes on here.


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## SMiGGs (Jul 6, 2011)

tribulliez91 said:


> I meant as in the fact as is he purebred n not mixed?


Purebred..... Most bullies are not even close to being pure bred.I say this for the mere fact that many atrocious breeders paper hang their dogs. You cant prove hes purebred because the mother is dead, or else he would be registered with ABKC.


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## SMiGGs (Jul 6, 2011)

rodrigo said:


> i have a question......what defines a breed?
> 
> basically if its stamped in a book right?
> 
> ...


IMO, purebred would be genetic lineage for more than 10-15 years(generations). Where the look is consistent for many years. When the look/purpose is consistent, that is where registries make the standards for the dogs.

A pure breed would be where you get one dog that has a certain phenotype/characteristics, and breed to another dog that has similar phenotype/characteristics, and you get the same phenotype..

Eventually, an outcross has to be introduced in order to save the breed from extinction. In order to keep the look a breed, you would have to do line breeding. That is why most purebreds, have many health issues.


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## rodrigo (Jun 28, 2011)

ya that makes sense....and left my head spinning too....

but i did look at a youtube of mr miagi.... lol that to me looks like a midget bully.... he is shorter than standard....and more exaggerated than a bully and the bowed legs also is indicative of being a dwarf....

i mean i love my APBT ..... his chin is a little wrinkly...he is 7 months old.... i have a great pedigree..... but i thought that wrinkly chins meant.....lol


i love him to death , i couldnt care less how pure or unpure he is in his blood....he is pure in his heart


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

SMiGGs said:


> IMO, purebred would be genetic lineage for more than 10-15 years(generations). Where the look is consistent for many years. When the look/purpose is consistent, that is where registries make the standards for the dogs.
> 
> A pure breed would be where you get one dog that has a certain phenotype/characteristics, and breed to another dog that has similar phenotype/characteristics, and you get the same phenotype..
> 
> Eventually, an outcross has to be introduced in order to save the breed from extinction. In order to keep the look a breed, you would have to do line breeding. That is why most purebreds, have many health issues.


The American Bully will never be consistent because people don't know what they are breeding. They have been mixed from the beginning, again not by Dave, but by others who had his dogs. If you don't know what you are breeding you never know what you are going to get hence litters producing Classic, Standard, XL, and Pocket etc. The Shorty Bull is newer than the American Bully yet it is far more consistent because Amy and Jamie wrote the standard with little room for breeders to work with where as in the American Bully the height difference is at least 7 inches.


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## rodrigo (Jun 28, 2011)

now what was the original purpose of the birth of the american bully??? just for a stocier blockier look??? but no practical purpose i assume? I am new I am just asking to learn the differences.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Regarding the bulldog achondroplastic skull; its modified growth and deformed development, *Dr Stockard* stated: _"The modified achondroplasic head of the prize __*bulldog*__ is a character depending upon the homozygous condition of several genetic factors for its complete expression. The human stocky dwarf is also __round headed or brachycephalic__. The nose bridge is flat and the palatal region shortened, causing the mandible to protrude beyond the upper jaw and producing the so-called undershot condition. The face is characteristically wide and flat with sunken nasion, making the appearance commonly termed 'dish-faced'". Such a physiognomy is comparable in every detail to the face of the __*bulldog*__. The coccygeal vertebrae are fused and bent in direction in some human dwarfs and resemble the like condition in the _*bulldogs*_"._ _(Stockard, 1941) _All bulldogs are now afflicted with pedigree-selection - breeder-induced concentrated dwarfism defective genetic mutations, just like many human dwarf families are afflicted.
(Photos & caption added by Stuart)





 







*Note: Achondroplasia* is a "birth defect" because the syndrome of this disorder is present at birth. Onset is in fetal life. Familial achondroplasia is inherited as an autosomal-dominant gene. It is a failure disorder of the growth of cartilage in the epiphyses of the long bones and skull. It results in premature ossification, permanent limitation of skeletal development, and dwarfism typified by a protruding forehead and short-limbed dystrophy characterized by upper arms and thighs that are disproportionately smaller than forearms and legs. Features include: bowing of extremities, waddling gait, limited range of movement of major joints. Prognathism may occur. _(__Saunders Comprehensive Veterinary Dictionary, 3rd edn, Elsevier 2007); (Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edn, Elsevier, 2009) 
_
Dr Wilcock stated: _"*W*__*e play our part by developing and offering increasingly sophisticated veterinary care to compensate for the anatomical and physiological shortcomings that dog breeders have allowed to evolve. This may seem like a bitter indictment, but how else can you explain the modern version of the English bulldog? *The official breed standards of the Kennel Clubs actually contain words of encouragement for the continued abuse of the canine phenotype. *English bulldogs* are required to have a 'muzzle as short as possible' and 'eyes as far from the ears as possible'. My sense of good taste prevents me from suggesting where the Bulldog's eyes may eventually end up if breeders were to take full advantage of this directive"! (Wilcock, 1990)_
Dr Wilcock stated:_ "The problem we face is that genetically-conditioned disease is inherent to the very principle of stabilizing phenotype through *'line-breeding'*. Most of our diseases are somehow linked to what we have come to accept as "normal" for the breed. To eliminate the predilection of specific breeds to specific diseases by deliberately selecting against specific phenotypes, or by instituting a rigorous test-and-cull program for those few disorders for which we have sensitive, specific and early testing, runs the risk of rendering the breed unrecognizable. We probably would create the swiftfooted, free-breathing and caesarian-free *bulldog*, but it may not look anything like the *bulldog* that is so precious to those who have owned and loved one". (Wilcock, 1990)_
​


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

rodrigo said:


> now what was the original purpose of the birth of the american bully??? just for a stocier blockier look??? but no practical purpose i assume? I am new I am just asking to learn the differences.


Companions and show they were not bred with a working purpose. 
Check out this article Bully the Kid wrote about why they were created. 
*http://www.gopitbull.com/bullies-101/32592-created.html*


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## SMiGGs (Jul 6, 2011)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> The American Bully will never be consistent because people don't know what they are breeding. They have been mixed from the beginning, again not by Dave, but by others who had his dogs. If you don't know what you are breeding you never know what you are going to get hence litters producing Classic, Standard, XL, and Pocket etc. The Shorty Bull is newer than the American Bully yet it is far more consistent because Amy and Jamie wrote the standard with little room for breeders to work with where as in the American Bully the height difference is at least 7 inches.


Agreed..With everyone tryin to start their own bloodline its never going to be consistent....Most bully breeders see the bully world as a marketing place.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I think he looks like a frenchy, dual sired litter maybe? Would love to see him DNA'd to his brother and see if they match up.


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## rodrigo (Jun 28, 2011)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Companions and show they were not bred with a working purpose.
> Check out this article Bully the Kid wrote about why they were created.
> *http://www.gopitbull.com/bullies-101/32592-created.html*


wow perfect explanation and how dare anyone think one breed supersedes another.... its like a purebred terrier or bulldog passing judgment on my apbt because it derives from part of their blood.

man we need "thank u " buttons here cuz i liked that link


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> The Shorty Bull is newer than the American Bully yet it is far more consistent


what is the difference between a shorty bull and a pocket ambully?


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## SMiGGs (Jul 6, 2011)

dixieland said:


> what is the difference between a shorty bull and a pocket ambully?


Difference would be French Bulldog blood.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

dixieland said:


> what is the difference between a shorty bull and a pocket ambully?


The American Bully was not used in any way to create a Shorty Bull. HUGE DIFFERENCE


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