# dog fight - help! (it's long but i need advice)



## Lacey's_Mom (Jun 11, 2011)

ok, so i havent posted on here in awhile because things have been a little crazy lately, and this isnt really the way i wanted to start back on the website...

My friend had a baby and she has 3 dogs... 2 pit bulls one male one female and one Chihuahua, she decided after having the baby that 3 dogs and a baby were too much for her to take on, my husband and i said we'll try out the female pit bull Lola, i asked TONS of questions about her and tried to do as much research about her as possible. we're from RI and she lives in Maryland... well this past week we drove down, with Lacey (our Pit Bull) to make sure they got along, there was no way i was bringing Lola home if they didnt get along. well needless to say everything went BEAUTIFULLY!!! Lacey LOVED the other 2 Pit Bulls and surprisingly the Chihuahua. we brought her home they slept together in lacey's bed, ate out of the same bowl at the same time, all that beautiful stuff. 

Now the bad.... I was laying on the couch with both dogs, my husband is a drummer and decided to play. as he was playing Lola stiffened and attacked Lacey. So here i was in the middle of a dog fight trying to get them off eachother screaming for my husband to help. he came down we got the dogs away from eachother and Lola went into her cage (Lacey is not crate trained, we tried but she was terrified of confined places) Well Lacey's face was bloodied, i was bloodied and bruised, it was a mess.. we took Lacey to the emergency vet and luckily she didnt need stitches. When my husband came down and helped me get the off eachother Lacey had Lola's stomach in her mouth, now the amazing thing, Lacey NEVER clamped down, Lola has NO marks on her except for missing fur where it looked like she got shaved.

I called my friend and she tells me she forgot to tell me Lola is afraid of thunder, which is why she tweeked when he played the drums. she cant come back to get her for another couple of weeks so we have he on the second floor (where Lacey isn't allowed) in her cage. Now Lacey sits at the bottom of the steps crying like she wants her best friend to come back down because she misses her and forgives her. I dont want to put them back in the same room together out of fear after being in the middle of that dog fight.

now my issue is i feel HORRIBLE leaving Lola in the cage pretty much all day except for when i take her outside to play or go outside, i cant really crate and rotate them because Lacey cant be upstairs roaming around because i have a rabbit upstairs and its too cold to keep her outside. does anyone have any suggestions about what i can do? im at a loss because they were getting along so well, if i had known she was scared of thunder i wouldnt have taken her because drums is a big part of my husband's life. im heart broken for this dog, she doesnt deserve to be in a crate for most of the day, and im aggravated that my friend wouldnt have her fiance come and get her, I guess this is what i get for trying to keep another Pit Bull out of the shelters....


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## 9tr3g (May 1, 2011)

Can you put a gate at the top and bottom of the stairs. Let one out up stairs and one out down stairs and just switch them out. Keep the rabbit in a closed room.

You did good keeping a dog out of the shelter. I recently had a similar situation but with two large males.


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## Lacey's_Mom (Jun 11, 2011)

we do have gates to keep lacey out of the second floor, Lola is part blck lab too so shes super tall compared to lacey and im nervous she'll jump over the gates, shes 2 and wicked hyper so i wouldnt put it past her to jump over. i wouldnt have to worry about lacey doing that because shes really stocky and shes not one to jump anyway shes really calm, shes 4 so all that hyperness is out of her system. i could put lacey upstairs and let lola out downstairs i just dont want lcey to get used to being up stairs because shes not suppose to be up there in the first place


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Regardless the reason for the attack, you didn't research enough on the breed you were getting or even own. They do not need best friends at all, and NO breed of dog should be allowed eat out of the same bowl especially a bully breed that was an accident waiting to happen in any case.

People can own multiple bull dogs you just need to do your home work and be willing to put in the effort of crating and rotating, many families live just fine like this. This is not the dogs fault by any means even with a fear of thunder or other involved. Honestly this may have happened anyway with there being no precautions as to the breed itself.


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## Lacey's_Mom (Jun 11, 2011)

i know the breed, i know my dog, while i understand there are many people who live fine with crate and rotate there are also plenty who live fine with having 2 pit bulls in the same house as well, the othr dog lived with 2 other dogs and mine isnt aggressive with dogs, i made sure they got along before i brought her home, i did as much as i could to try and prevent something like this from happening, it was fear induced theres nothing i can do about that, i didnt know her fear and if i did i said i wouldnt have gotten her. as for putting in effort to crate Lacey, shes a rescue from the MSPCA she was older and set in her ways to a crate she had massive anxiety in it, we put effort int it, but it wasnt worth putting that much stress on her, so she wouldnt become aggressive out of nerves or anything.


i know the breed and i know my dog if i didnt know lacey i wouldnt have even thought about getting another one and if every pit bull never got along with other dogs i wouldnt have tried to save another dog from getting euthanized its works fine with other people to have multiples, like lola's other house where they all ate out of the same bowl, i tried, it didnt work, i shouldnt have brougt her home fine i get that, but it wasnt because i didnt know the breed


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Lacey's_Mom said:


> i know the breed, i know my dog, while i understand there are many people who live fine with crate and rotate there are also plenty who live fine with having 2 pit bulls in the same house as well, the othr dog lived with 2 other dogs and mine isnt aggressive with dogs, i made sure they got along before i brought her home, i did as much as i could to try and prevent something like this from happening, it was fear induced theres nothing i can do about that, i didnt know her fear and if i did i said i wouldnt have gotten her. as for putting in effort to crate Lacey, shes a rescue from the MSPCA she was older and set in her ways to a crate she had massive anxiety in it, we put effort int it, but it wasnt worth putting that much stress on her, so she wouldnt become aggressive out of nerves or anything.
> 
> i know the breed and i know my dog if i didnt know lacey i wouldnt have even thought about getting another one and if every pit bull never got along with other dogs i wouldnt have tried to save another dog from getting euthanized its works fine with other people to have multiples, like lola's other house where they all ate out of the same bowl, i tried, it didnt work, i shouldnt have brougt her home fine i get that, but it wasnt because i didnt know the breed


Okay, im going to be brutally honest and i want you to take this as me telling you how it is vs. insulting you and your dogs. I know no one likes to be told they are wrong or that they can't handle anything but i operate as an honest person, its both great and its a fault especially online as it can be taken many ways.. And only one way is how i mean it, before i continue i first want to say welcome to GP.

Now, first off you can not come asking for help and then immediately be defensive over what people tell you. It is obvious you have run into a dead end and there is reason for this, you were obviously in some way or in many ways not prepared. We all start from some where and we all live life constantly learning and evolving our thought process until we are too old and start forgetting everything. 

You obviously do not know the breed if you believe that by allowing these two dogs to meet they would get along and be life time friends. There is no breed "Pit Bull", this is a generic term that represents several breeds the media and the general public group together as one... Being the American Bully, American Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Bandog, American Bulldog and finally the one and only American Pit Bull Terrier. The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) is the ONLY breed that can be considered a "Pit Bull" as this can also be used as a nick name however for those who have been in the breed for years, can also be seen as someone being uneducated of what they speak of when referring to the APBT as a "Pit Bull".. Not only directing this to you, i have no idea what you have learned or have been told but you obviously were not prepared..

These dogs, APBT's have a strong heritage that includes fighting.. Hence the "Pit" part of the name.. These dogs were bred towards and perfected with one thing in common.. Back in the day before the sport was declared illegal in the United States, pre 1976, this was a legit sport involving two dogs and Dog Men.. Now this sport whether you agree with the act or disagree with the act is where the modern dog was perfected.. Agree or disagree, if you chose to own these dogs you must respect the history and the past in order to understand whats at the end of your leash..

In short, these dogs have DA (dog aggression) instilled genetically, the new aged thought process "its all in how you raise them" is actually nonsense and irrelevant.. While yes if you lock a dog up 24/7, do not socialize, etc.. Any breed has a breaking point and will become fear aggressive..However, just speaking generally how you raise these dogs have zero bearing on the outcome if bred properly to "historic" standard, (meaning, proper standard as a working dog and not a show dog or other purpose other than a raw athlete..does not mean these dogs still have to be used for the now illegal pit, however these dogs have always been raw performers and excel in virtually all tasks..working ability in a class of their own) have a sound and stable temperament, etc.. DA is just apart of these dogs, both in history and in the present..

Now you talk about how others can have multiple "pit bulls" in a house hold, well i can tell you that these people do not have APBT's. While there are exceptions to every rule there are not that many APBT's that go through life without DA genetically "kicking in" and arising within the dog. These people you speak of have more than likely mixes of the breed, American Bullies, American Staffordshire Terriers or other breeds/mixes of associated with the APBT and grouped as one.. "Pit Bulls" All these breeds grouped together are not created equal and are not being bred for the same purpose in mind.. Meaning, the American Bully has been bred from day one to be a show dog.. Shares much of the same history of the APBT but in terms of drive, athletic ability, etc... is much more watered down in comparison..

Now it sounds to me at least one, if not both of your "Pit Bulls" are rescues.. When you rescue a dog while this is a noble doing.. There is no way of knowing the history of that dog, how that dog was bred etc therefore there is no way of knowing if your dog is actually an APBT or not.. In many cases shelter dogs are mislabeled due to the amount of dogs they care for at any given time, they best guess the breed and move on.. Its in no way, shape or form a science.

These dogs will fight over everything, if you lay a piece of kibble on the floor, they will fight over it as they both will instantly claim it.. Eating at the same time, same room, same bowl, etc with these dogs (and really, any breed) is just setting your dog up for failure. Feed them separate, even if they get along why risk it? Better be safe than sorry..

Now i don't know if you goto the dog park but understanding the history of these dogs its obvious its no place for them. Since this isn't about a dog park i will just say going to one or allowing your dogs to play with others, unleashed especially.. Is just..again..setting them up for failure.. You can't fight genetics and after growing up with the breed and having combined 23-24 years of experience with these dogs, i have never seen or been proved wrong with the saying "always expect a bulldog to fight"... Even if they get along perfectly with each other and any dog out there now, its not set in stone it will remain that way.. Just turn on the news, its always those under prepared, un-knowledgable people out there that "raised their Pits better" that end up in trouble.. Its always the "Pit Bulls" fault too.. As the media and general public views these dogs as horrible aggressive un controllable..No matter who started the fight, your dog will be blamed at the end of the day..

Fear aggression or not, if your dogs got along perfectly a fight wouldn't have happened.. Getting tense then lashing out at another dog is a sign, it can be a number of things but at the end of the day it should serve as a warning to you that DA is instilled in the genetics of these dogs and if it "hits the fan" its not going to be pretty.. A well socialized, even tempered, solid and sound dog will not tense up and lash out without a reason... Fear aggression should not be a problem.. and is not a legit reason for what happened.

You really have two options, if you want to keep your dogs you should seek out an experienced trainer that has experience with these type of dogs.. Not going to a place like petsmart.. To help you get back on track and help correct what needs to be corrected, properly crate train, etc.. As well as teach you face to face about the breed with proper information and not fairy tales.. Or you need to get rid of both of your dogs because if you are going to believe you know what your doing, you know your dogs you know the breed, its only a matter of time before it gets worse.. And it doesn't have to be between two "Pit Bulls".. Your other dog can be a victim.

Crate and rotate is the best option to keep your dogs safe, you need to invest in a break stick(s) and learn how to properly use one on your dogs, (only your "Pit Bull" dogs) you need to seek some help there because theres only so much people on the internet can do.. We are not there to help you control the situation, correct the situation, etc.. You need that.

If you can't, do the right thing and re home them to someone or people that have the experience to properly care for them.

The first thing you need to do is erase what you think you know, if you truly knew about these dogs, about the history and what you were doing.. You wouldn't be here asking for help.. At least, not the kind of help you are asking for.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Btw here is just a few examples of what i was talking about with the breeds..

American Bully









American Pit Bull Terrier









"Pit Bull" or new aged term "Pet Bull".. Unknown heritage..


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## Diggit (Jan 24, 2011)

im not sure if this has been left out but... you say lola feared the loud sound and attacked because she was scared, this doesnt sound usual for a canine. 

usually in pack animals the dog that shows weakness (fear) is the one who gets attacked by the "alpha" 
not the dog who is fearing something attacks.

another thing is exercise, do you have a regimen? many times dogs will start fights or act out because they dont get enough exercise. 

I have a treadmill also for the days we are pretty busy and I put each apbt on there 45 min jog and 45 min walking. all together thats an hour and a half workout.

and a lot of the time while getting ready for a dog show they will get double that.

I have 8 traditional bred american pit bull terriers, non of them come in contact with each other. we have a great cable run/kennel run set up and they all get out of the yard to parks and walks to rid of pent up energy.

and we also have a "pack" type thing with jack Russell terriers... if a new one comes in they will pick back and forth for who is the dominate one, and if one shows weakness some others may start a fight. cirtain things set off a fight... a few of these little guys WONT fight back, they are all different. we always make sure one of us is home when these guys are loose together, its rare that they will try and "kill" each other but you just never know when they are alone, they are "terriers" watching them and how they act as a pack helps me read them and how they feel. 


but like posted above the american pit bull terrier is totally diff. from any breed which is why we have ours set up to where they cannot come in contact... 

dog aggression can happen in ANY breed of dog, but the best advice for an apbt is to NEVER trust a dog not to fight... 
setting up a situation where a fight could happen (eating out of the same bowl, sharing toys) will end up bad most of the time.

I hope you can manage or work something out to where the dogs can be safe.


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## Indie (Sep 29, 2010)

If you can't handle training Lacey to stay in a crate, then perhaps Lola needs to go back to her old home. Or, have her put to sleep. I honestly wouldn't have a dog that lashes out when they hear loud noises ANYWHERE near my infant or toddler. These two could probably live a happy life together, having supervised visits with a break stick handy, and being seperate at all other times. One upstairs, one down.. one in a crate, one out. It's not THAT hard. 

Best way to crate train Lacey would be to start feeding her in her crate. Just start by putting the food near the door inside the crate. Then move it farther and farther back till she's inside it. Then, after some time like that, start shutting the door while she's eating. Then, start leaving her in it for a bit while you're in the room. NEVER let her out if she's whining. Then, start leaving her in it while you're gone. Always give her a special treat like a frozen, stuffed kong, or a recreational bone. That should train her satisfactorily, if done over a proper amount of time. Even if you don't keep Lola, you should train Lacey, because it is important nowadays to train your dog to stay in a crate. 

Good luck.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Was there a reason you didn't take your friend's male dog? Like everyone else has said, the breed doesn't need dog friends but sometimes it's easier with two opposite sex dogs than same sex dogs.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Well in fairness you need to make sure the other dogs gets out of the crate and just suck it up and crate train the other dog. You didn't do your research well, females have less a chance than getting along then male female. You should NEVER feed any dog together out of the same bowl. It is not surprising you had a fight and if it was not noise induced it would have happened over something else. I know you said it will be a few weeks before she can go back with her original owner so you need to be fair to both dogs and make sure they get equal time out.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Genetics, Genetics, Genetics, ... Crate and Rotate or get rid of the dogs you had a fight not uncommon with a DA breed this shouldn't be a surprise to you fights happen all the time when they do you make the changes necessary to keep them from happening again. You can try and blame it on sounds, or whatever but the fact is if they fought once it will happen again. And you should NEVER let dog's eat from the same bowl not unless you really want a dead dog on your hands. Feed the dogs in the crates get a measuring cup and empty the amount of feed they eat on the crate floor when it's time for them to eat. If you don't have a break stick you need to get some and keep them around the house. I use the treadmill as well it's an easy way to exercise your dog's indoors.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Sorry but I really hate when people think letting them eat out of the same bowl is cool and shows how well they get along. YOU can't let HUMAN kids eat out of the same bowl, chip bag or share anything with out expecting a fight sooner or later someone going to fight over the last piece at some point lol ... so why think its a good thing for a dog?


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Everyone is right above. And I totally agree you can't keep one dog locked up you need to spend equal time with them separated. Just because one has been trained for the crate doesn't mean it should be forced to be in it the all the time. Put your rabbit in a cage and let you dogs rotate until you are able to rehome the other. 

For some people, like myself right now, can't imagine living in a crate and rotate situation. Its not ideal for me and my boy. He is an AmStaff and is 50/50 with other dogs. But I don't want to be apart from him and don't want to share myself right now. I'm good with one set of vet bills thank you very much lol. Good for you for asking for help. Please do good for both dogs while you figure it out. They may never get along again you should be prepared. whatever decision you just need to do good by the dogs. See if you can find another person to go for walks with you and walk the other dog. Jut don't let them have free play while you work out other arrangements. But don't think the pit/lab mix won't have issue with your chi, it can happen at any time with all breeds.


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## PerfectPit (Aug 2, 2010)

I have to agree with everything said here. We live the C&R lifestyle. It is hectic at times but you have to be consistent. I lived through two serious dog fights (one the fault of my husband) thinking that time would make things ok. Well he was dead wrong! Luckily neither dog was killed but there was serious damage done and expensive vet bills. Now after a year of C&R my APBT needs surgery on his knee due to the last fight because it never healed properly. The aggressor was my Bull Mastiff but trust me my APBT held his own and caused damage. They got along great for the first 6 mths of being together then my Mastiff decided he didn't like the idea of shared space even though he lived previously with a Aussie and a Rottie. We trained the dogs that the baby gates were a "no go zone" which they learned to respect. Either dog if they wanted could easily jump or plow through the baby gate but we are diligent in watching for signs of "stalking" and nip it in the butt immediately. When we are not home, one runs about freely while the other is behind a closed door with a baby gate in front/back of it giving them more space. Bowls and toys are in their respective rooms and never come out or are seen by the other dog. My house is too small to have crates inside it so we use bedrooms as their "crate". They get exercise daily as well as play time outside independantly with us or in another room away from the other dog. 
I joined this group when the initial incident happened; they were straightforward and at times it appeared harsh but they know what they are talking about. I am blessed I found this group because they give me the facts. I have learned a great deal and I believe I will continue to learn from them. I hope you take heed of what they are saying without out being defensive. Learn the C&R method it works wonders if you are willing to invest in the time. Best of luck...


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