# WHATS THE BIGGEST PITBULL YOU'VE EVER SEEN ?



## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

gross........


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## APBTMOMMY (Mar 28, 2009)

:goodpost: I agree.........


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## Pits4Life (Mar 31, 2009)

ive seen phantoms rolls..huge dog jeez!


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> SO FAR I'VE SEEN TWO @ 148 LBS. ON A HANGING SCALE . ONE WAS BISHOP OF DAGGER AND THE OTHER WAS PHANTOM ROLLS .


:rofl:
I thought this was whats the biggest pitbull you ever seen not the biggest mastiff mix?

Sweety I don't think you know what a pitbull is or you would know they don't come ANYWHERE near 148lbs


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

i prefer nice small lean muscular American Pit Bull Terriers...i am not into hippos


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## Pits4Life (Mar 31, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> :rofl:
> I thought this was whats the biggest pitbull you ever seen not the biggest mastiff mix?
> 
> Sweety I don't think you know what a pitbull is or you would know they don't came ANYWHERE near 148lbs


was that directed towards me or who posted this thread bc i do not recall ever saying that i think phantom rolls is a true american pitbull. theres no way that he is, but i have seen him on the internet while browsing through breeders. all i did was reference to the fact that its a huge dog bc i knew who they were talking about when they said phantom rolls. clearly he is an ambully which yes you are correct is mixed with a mastiff, along with bulldog and the staffy terrier.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

patsar16 said:


> was that directed towards me or who posted this thread bc i do not recall ever saying that i think phantom rolls is a true american pitbull. theres no way that he is, but i have seen him on the internet while browsing through breeders. all i did was reference to the fact that its a huge dog bc i knew who they were talking about when they said phantom rolls. clearly he is an ambully which yes you are correct is mixed with a mastiff, along with bulldog and the staffy terrier.


Maybe you should read who I quoted and then you would know who I was talking to:hammer:

Also wanted to add a 148lb dog is not just ashame to the "pitbull" community its a shame to the American Bully community that is trying to turn these dogs into something worth while.

One more to add now lmao. I don't refer to An Am bully as mastiff mix. I am stating that I don't consider anything 148lbs anything close to any "pitbull type" dog. It is a mastiff not pitbull.


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## vegasbound (Dec 5, 2008)

He asked what is the biggest PITBULL you have ever seen...

Not the biggest APBT, so many lame people here.

I think all you haters should start a board for people who ONLY like American Pitbull Terriers between 35-50lbs then you can talk to the other closed minded people who think they know it all about this breed. So many of you just come off as Jerks IMHO..


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

vegasbound said:


> He asked what is the biggest PITBULL you have ever seen...
> 
> Not the biggest APBT, so many lame people here.
> 
> I think all you haters should start a board for people who ONLY like American Pitbull Terriers between 35-50lbs then you can talk to the other closed minded people who think they know it all about this breed.So many of you just come off as Jerks IMHO..


And its people like you that call anything with a large head a pitbull that are causing so much confusion of the fact that there are actually different breeds of dog.

I own a great American Bully ( and look to get more!) so don't even go there with me.


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## Pits4Life (Mar 31, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> Maybe you should read who I quoted and then you would know who I was talking to:hammer:
> 
> Also wanted to add a 148lb dog is not just ashame to the "pitbull" community its a shame to the American Bully community that is trying to turn these dogs into something worth while.


no need to be rude i only asked bc you said "sweety". the thread was posted by cutdownskennels and there is no reference to if that is a girl or a guy and generally people call young women such as myself "sweety"so im sure you can see why i thought this may have been towards me. also when on a forum you deal with people who all have differing opinions obviously. i dont think its fair to say that a 148lb dog is a shame to the american bully family. there are a lot of people on here who have bullies who im sure think that phantom rolls is a good looking dog. also, she wouldnt still be breeding dogs is there werent people buying them. some people want a big bully and some like the athletic american pitbull. either way lets be respectful that just because something isnt your cup of tea doesnt mean its a disgrace its just not your style. no hard feelings.


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

vegasbound said:


> He asked what is the biggest PITBULL you have ever seen...
> 
> Not the biggest APBT, so many lame people here.
> 
> I think all you haters should start a board for people who ONLY like American Pitbull Terriers between 35-50lbs then you can talk to the other closed minded people who think they know it all about this breed. So many of you just come off as Jerks IMHO..


THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

patsar16 said:


> also, she wouldnt still be breeding dogs is there werent people buying them.


And thats whats ruining these dogs. People just breeding them because their are people to buy them, just going for whatever makes the biggest or bulkiest.


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

ACTUALLY SOME OF THESE PUPPIES WILL BE WEIGHT PULLING !!!

NEGATIVE PEOPLE RUIN THE BREED .


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## Pits4Life (Mar 31, 2009)

there are two types of breeders in my opinion. those who breed dogs such as pitbulls who want the biggest badest looking dogs simply to sell to those who want a "badass" looking dog. they do whatever they can to achieve the biggest results and the size of their dogs is the only thing they have but other than that they dont know shit to put it in everyday terms. Those breeders should be shunned and have no business breeding. then there are breeders who have years of experience and knowledge and produce big and excellent looking bullies. i dont know which senerio phantom rolls comes from but if you look at her site she appears to be a reputable, good breeder.i dont know that though so i cant stand up for her reputation all i can say is that there are some people who like that kind of look. look at toy breeds such as chihuahuas,yorkies etc. there are people out there who are breeding to get the smallest dogs possible. they pride themselves on the fact that full grown their dogs onl weigh 3lbs lol..it goes on everywhere not just in the pitbull world but i just say to each their own. as long as you like what you have then great.


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## vegasbound (Dec 5, 2008)

american_pit13 said:


> And its people like you that call anything with a large head a pitbull that are causing so much confusion of the fact that there are actually different breeds of dog.
> 
> I own a great American Bully ( and look to get more!) so don't even go there with me.


That's the thing, Everything from the little pocket pits all the way up to the XXLarge bullies are all considered "pitbull type dogs" The breed APBT dogs are part of that group of many dog breeds and mixes that are all refered to as pitbulls.

The size of the head has nothing to do with whether I would catogorize a dog as a pitbull type or not...


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Back to the OP, You asked what is the largest "pitbull". This is where people have issues with that term. Pitbulls or APBT's or what ever you want to call them do not get that large, 75lbs should be around the largest they should get. Now when you use the term "pitbull" I assume you are talking about the designer breeds of today. They are not "pitbulls" or APBT's they are bulldog mixes. Am bullies came from these breedings but have seem to have found more of a standard size and look. This post is a loaded question because you offend the APBT people by calling a "pitbull" 148lbs. Because it is obvious it's a mixed breed.(I do not care what the pedigree says the dog cannot be 100% pit) So this is an unfair question that is going to cause controversy. 

It should be more something like

What is the largest bully dog you have ever seen. That way it covers any pitbull, APBT, am bully, or mixed bully breed.


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## Hirihat (May 5, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Back to the OP, You asked what is the largest "pitbull". This is where people have issues with that term. Pitbulls or APBT's or what ever you want to call them do not get that large, 75lbs should be around the largest they should get. Now when you use the term "pitbull" I assume you are talking about the designer breeds of today. They are not "pitbulls" or APBT's they are bulldog mixes. Am bullies came from these breedings but have seem to have found more of a standard size and look. This post is a loaded question because you offend the APBT people by calling a "pitbull" 148lbs. Because it is obvious it's a mixed breed.(I do not care what the pedigree says the dog cannot be 100% pit) So this is an unfair question that is going to cause controversy.
> 
> It should be more something like
> 
> What is the largest bully dog you have ever seen. That way it covers any pitbull, APBT, am bully, or mixed bully breed.


:goodpost:


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

IS DAGGER KENNEL A APBT BREEDER?


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Dagger is a bloodline. This particular bloodline has cause quite a ruckus in the "pit bull" community due to the massive size. They are Bann Dogges with APBT on the papers. there have been outcrosses to mastiff type dogs to get the size, but the "pit bull" look and working drive. American Bullies generally tend not to be working dogs because they are being bred to be family companions, not working dogs.


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

The biggest true APBT I've ever seen was around 70 pounds lean, He was A Jeep/Turtlebuster dog, Gamebred but a freak! all his littermates were in the proper weight range, but he wasent, Ive never really heard of a Gamebred being much bigger than that!


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

our boy is 45kgs - 99lbs 
hes a true pit, not a bully


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

MISSAPBT said:


> our boy is 45kgs - 99lbs
> hes a true pit, not a bully


I gotta say I got my doubts, What bloodline?


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

MISSAPBT said:


> our boy is 45kgs - 99lbs
> hes a true pit, not a bully


sorry to burst your bubble but no TRUE pit weighs anywhere close to 99lbs.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

not sure if i calculated right but he is closely around 45 kgs, dont use pounds here in nz.

this is him with his sister (same litter) at 1 year 









this is him now 4years








sorry i dont have a good photo of his whole body, i could get one. he stands about 550 high, ill measure him too 

hes Nellison x Big red


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

vegasbound said:


> He asked what is the biggest PITBULL you have ever seen...
> 
> Not the biggest APBT, so many lame people here.
> 
> I think all you haters should start a board for people who ONLY like American Pitbull Terriers between 35-50lbs then you can talk to the other closed minded people who think they know it all about this breed. So many of you just come off as Jerks IMHO..


I concur....


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## thaim (Feb 6, 2009)

you know what i think?... there is nothing you can do about the pitbulls becomming 100+ pounds they are going to be around for years to come and there isnt really much u can do about it. so you just need to be a little more open minded about it. sure they arent pure bred 100% apbt. but some people LIKE the looks and the size. the only thing i really care about is if these dogs are going to good homes because to me a dog is a dog. i would love a 40 pound pitbull just as much as a 150 pound pitbull.


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

MISSAPBT said:


> not sure if i calculated right but he is closely around 45 kgs, dont use pounds here in nz.
> 
> this is him with his sister (same litter) at 1 year
> 
> ...


he's a good looking boy! so is his sister! thanks for sharing i like em


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## pitbullgirl22 (Jul 27, 2008)

I like him too! Purdy!


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

the biggest dog ive ever seen with apbt papers was my puppys father,
"red diablo",he was[is] huge,a dog that is totally proportionate,definitely a mastiff up in the wood pile[or two],he's a 120 pounds lean.
As far as large apbts pre 1980's,there photos of plenty,a few in Strattons first book[tussles dum dum,and a beautiful 95 pound dog],as well as a 100 pound pup at 10 months in the world of fighting dogs from early 1980's,at the time presumably the biggest apbt ever bred.
banjo's father red diablo.


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## velcro (Feb 25, 2009)

isnt a pitbull ne dog that has apbt in it mixxed with others. they didnt ask wat was the biggest apbt....pitbull is a classification of ne "breed"that is similar to the apbt....and even furthermore i gotta say who r ne of u to judge on what is a shame or not ashame to the community. i own an apbt pure bred....and i can very easily say that ANY bully is shame to the apbt since they're not pure breed(not that i do cuz i think some bullys r gorgeouse)i think yall need to calm down and correct not jump down throuts..pull the fangs bakc


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

its amazing how many people tell me its not true, or hes crossed, people have to remember there ARE oversized animals in this world, just like giant humans lol


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

velcro said:


> and even furthermore i gotta say who r ne of u to judge on what is a shame or not ashame to the community.


If you don't want to get judged and get peoples thoughts don't post on public threads..

If you want to call it judging because I don't agree that the dog is a pitbull then go ahead, but its my opinion and this forum is here to educate, and NOONE will get any good education thinking any "pitbull"gets 148lbs.

Also people keep adding about "pitbulls" getting up to 100lbs and what not 100lbs and 148lbs are quite a difference.


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## velcro (Feb 25, 2009)

very tru missapbt some dogs may not get the email to stop growing haha...n i didnt think the site was about judging....i thought gopitbull.com was where ppl cud go and not get judged since the rest of the world wants to judge us for r dogs....and judging is one thing but be littleing is something differnt by saying the dogs a shame


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

the breed apbt was given its classification as breed not on pureness of blood but the ability to successed at the job[work]it was intended to do.
That means any dog that was a success at working was bred purity of blood ment little or nothing at all.
It must be said that even when the dogs are bred in there purest form every now and again a true mastiff type will be bred due to the heavy molloser influence in the breeds ancestory coming via the bulldog blood[bulldog of old].
although nowadays any 100 pounder is suspect due to trend breeding for every thing other than working ability.
jmo.


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

THANKS FOR ALL THE COMMENTS !!! SO CAN YOU PLEASE POST THE APBT'S YOU HAVE PRODUCED IN YOUR OWN YARD ............I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM


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## Kinglion (May 4, 2009)

Nizmo357 said:


> he's a good looking boy! so is his sister! thanks for sharing i like em


Thanks for getting this board back on track! :clap: This went way to far off and now were back to admiring dogs again. Very nice looking dogs there though. I had to google Phanton Rolls and the other dog and I like. look awesome and strong.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

I dont have a yard personaly,i have a back yard but dont produce dogs out of it.
I do have a example of pure bred game dog from madline kennels in turkey at 90 kgs,i dont know the translation to pounds but believe it is 80 pounds plus.








And this female is out of alligator/rufus breedings and is 70 pounds conditioned.








buster brown from the world of fighting dogs,no bully blood and fully functional as a working dog clearly obvious by his vertical leap,it has been believed by some to be the type that influenced the american bulldog.
because of his size and color.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

velcro said:


> very tru missapbt some dogs may not get the email to stop growing haha...n i didnt think the site was about judging....i thought gopitbull.com was where ppl cud go and not get judged since the rest of the world wants to judge us for r dogs....and judging is one thing but be littleing is something differnt by saying the dogs a shame


:goodpost:


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

cane76 said:


> the biggest dog ive ever seen with apbt papers was my puppys father,
> "red diablo",he was[is] huge,a dog that is totally proportionate,definitely a mastiff up in the wood pile[or two],he's a 120 pounds lean.
> As far as large apbts pre 1980's,there photos of plenty,a few in Strattons first book[tussles dum dum,and a beautiful 95 pound dog],as well as a 100 pound pup at 10 months in the world of fighting dogs from early 1980's,at the time presumably the biggest apbt ever bred.
> banjo's father red diablo.


good lord that bastard is huge!!! looks similar to a bandog that came out with us a few weeks back


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

I belive Buster brown is from Land of Giants kennels, Alot of controversy surrounding them and there breeding practices! I personally wouldnt take anything off there yard even if I got paid!
Not tryin to diss your dog Cane, He's a good lookin boy But why would you go out of the country to find a Bulldawg? The best reps of the breed are found right here in the good ol USA (facts)
A dog that size comin from Turkey Would lend me to think that there's some Bully Kutta or other Type of dog in the mix, I know that they Fight dogs there in Turkey Its part of the culture, also Pakistan but there dogs are alot bigger than ours!

Edited> Cane sorry for the last statement, I just looked at Mad-line Kennel's Website, out of Turkey, and there dogs are out of some good stock, I guess you just happend to get a REALLY big one!


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## rkj32 (Jul 17, 2008)

i think u can have a dog outside of the weight standard and it be 100% abpt.like everything in natural things evolve.just like over the last 100 years,people have gotten taller because of our high protein diet.the same thing can be said about the dogs too.they eat better and live longer,than they did a 100 years ago.i stop posting pics of my dog because,i got tried of defending the fact that he is 100% abpt.colby's pincher was a 80-85 pound,so does that make him a bully too,i know he was around before the standard was written.so does that make colby dogs ambullies.and for all the people,that talk 30-40 pounds are real apbt,alot of those dogs were crossed with boston terriers and patter dales, in the early part of the 19 century.we all need to stop jumping down each other throats,and learn to work and help each other out.just my opinion ,please no one beat me up lol.


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## 619luv (May 1, 2009)

vegasbound said:


> That's the thing, Everything from the little pocket pits all the way up to the XXLarge bullies are all considered "pitbull type dogs" The breed APBT dogs are part of that group of many dog breeds and mixes that are all refered to as pitbulls.
> 
> The size of the head has nothing to do with whether I would catogorize a dog as a pitbull type or not...


I dont know if I would get into it with ampit_13..shes a guru when it comes to pitbulls...she KNOWS what shes talking about.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

OK have to say all you people gettin offended and bringing up all the ambully stuff is dumb. This has nothing to do with ambully vs apbt. I wouldn't call that dog an Am Bully or an APBT it looks like a Neo Mastiff mix. No one said anything about Ambully or was dissing on Ambullies only the people that are getting all butt hurt over a 148lb dog being referred to as a mastiff mix are bringing up Ambullys.

Yes a dog can get out of the standard weight and be pure but 148lbs IS WAY BEYOND GETTING OUT OF THE STANDARD WEIGHT! 148LBS IS A MASTIFF! 

Any way you all keep bringing up the whole Ambully thing and saying we are dissing on bullies and this has nothing to do with American Bullies VS APBTS

No American Bully should be 148lbs either, but that my opinion on a well bred bully.


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

rkj32 said:


> i think u can have a dog outside of the weight standard and it be 100% abpt.like everything in natural things evolve.just like over the last 100 years,people have gotten taller because of our high protein diet.the same thing can be said about the dogs too.they eat better and live longer,than they did a 100 years ago.i stop posting pics of my dog because,i got tried of defending the fact that he is 100% abpt.colby's pincher was a 80-85 pound,so does that make him a bully too,i know he was around before the standard was written.so does that make colby dogs ambullies.and for all the people,that talk 30-40 pounds are real apbt,alot of those dogs were crossed with boston terriers and patter dales, in the early part of the 19 century.we all need to stop jumping down each other throats,and learn to work and help each other out.just my opinion ,please no one beat me up lol.


I dont wanna seem like Im nit picking or just tryin to be the negitive opposition on this thread, But I cant help it when I read stuff like that!
Ok here go's >YES there's allways exeptions to the Rule about size.
100 years ago dogs were feed raw and scraps, which is a whole lot healthier than any of todays commercial foods! So better nutrition= bigger bodies when it comes to your Canine Theary to me dont make a whole lot of sense! 
Bostons 100 years ago were the same thing as what we call Gamebred! (suck on that one for a while)Lol
Now Patterdales where crossed with Gamedogs> YES As they still are today! there called Pitterpats But they where definantly not considerd to be or where used as a pit fighting dog, well maybe some where bumped against each other but no serious dogman would try to match and campain a cross like that in any real compitition! The patterdale people admit that there is a infusion of bulldawg in the makeup of some pats, No secret there! But It was done for more mouth and stronger dog, Allways they were bred back to the patterdale side to reduce the size so they could fit down them holes, some breeders still will infuse some bulldawg into there pats for the same reason!
I hope I didnt punch ya too hard there Rjk Not tryin to be an ass but I couldnt resist.
nOw for anyone who are like >WHAT?< Just GOOGLE it, There should be enough info on the net for anyone who wants to try to understand and learn more about what I posted, Its food for thought and promotes learning which is deffinantly is a positive plus for smart people like you and me


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## rkj32 (Jul 17, 2008)

u need to go back and reread what i posted,i was making a comparison to the old and new breeding practices.just like it served a purpose to crossed breed with those terriers back then,some breeder feel the same way about adding mastiff blood.and if u thing the dogs 100 years ago had a better diet and were healthier u r wrong.everything has improved from diet to health are.i didnt say that the 148 pits is a example , but i do think the 80-85 pound dogs r. man i thought u west coast people, were surpose to be all calm and chill,boy was i wrong


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

Allright what do you feed your dog? now compare it to barf diet. There is no comparison Natural is allways better!


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

glad ya'll are keeping this civil.


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## rkj32 (Jul 17, 2008)

orijen,that i mixed with raw.dog food back then, was all the crap people didnt want to eat.if u look at peoples diet it was a high crab, low protein diet.having meat was rarity for the average person.go read some books about early 20 century life and how hard it was for the average person to get by.so u mean to tell me if they didnt have meat for themselves,they had it for their dogs.u were lucky if u had spam or caned corn beef.well anyway i give up u win


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## dennispits (Jul 1, 2008)

didnt the Dagger creator admit to cross breeding with a Mastif?


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

dennispits said:


> didnt the Dagger creator admit to cross breeding with a Mastif?


I thought so....

Hey Pimp and rjk I love your guy's enthusiasm. My only request is not to make this personal.


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## rkj32 (Jul 17, 2008)

*i rest my case lol*

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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

There are your few occasioanl flukes that fall outside the standard but past 80 lbs your pushing it. Plus you have to account for chain weight some of the heavier true gamedogs that rocked the scale had excess chain weight and some were just larger (this does not happen all the time) that is why you have a breeding standard. But even in top condition the larger game dogs were closer to 65-70 lbs. 

American Pitbull Terrier = GAME DOG or GAME BRED DOG .... these dogs are bred from tradtional game bloodlines and tend to be lean and athletic. The average game bred /game dog is between 30-45 lbs ... Remember this breed has been bred to a standard for many many years. 

Anything outside the above is a pitbull TYPE breed/dog that has been crossbred with various type breeds. Ambullies, ect all fall within this category. These TYPE of dogs may have orginated from Game/Staff blood but have been crossed out with so many other breeds generation after generation they can no longer be considered an American Pitbull Terrier.


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## vegasbound (Dec 5, 2008)

SadieBlues said:


> There are your few occasioanl flukes that fall outside the standard but past 80 lbs your pushing it. Plus you have to account for chain weight some of the heavier true gamedogs that rocked the scale had excess chain weight and some were just larger (this does not happen all the time) that is why you have a breeding standard. But even in top condition the larger game dogs were closer to 65-70 lbs.
> 
> American Pitbull Terrier = GAME DOG or GAME BRED DOG .... these dogs are bred from tradtional game bloodlines and tend to be lean and athletic. The average game bred /game dog is between 30-45 lbs ... Remember this breed has been bred to a standard for many many years.
> 
> Anything outside the above is a pitbull TYPE breed/dog that has been crossbred with various type breeds. Ambullies, ect all fall within this category. These TYPE of dogs may have orginated from Game/Staff blood but have been crossed out with so many other breeds generation after generation they can no longer be considered an American Pitbull Terrier.


Very well said..:clap:


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

so that means your saying stage (45kgs) is a cross and his sister who is his litter mate is a pure apbt game dog, as she falls in the 30 - 45lbs region


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## rkj32 (Jul 17, 2008)

i agree with what u r saying.my question so unless a dog is breed for the box, he or she is being breed out of standard.not trying to put words in your mouth,just asking a general question.like i statted before colby's pincher was a 80-85 pound game dog,so does that make him a ambully.some of the best historic game dogs,would be in the 80 pound range,if they were around today and were just regular pets.just my thoughts please dont ban me lol


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

What I am saying is you must go by bloodline to determine if your dog is pure bred... American Pitbull Terriers originate from game lines. Jeep, Corvino, Colby, Redboy, Boli, Brodeoux, Old Family Rednose ect ... These are TRUE classic American Pitbull Terrier Bloodlines that have been bred to standard and even today are bred closley within the standard they started off . Game dogs and Game bred dogs typically are bred to be between 30-60 lbs give or take a few lbs that is the standard set for the American Pitbull Terrier however many of them fall within the 30-45 lbs range. A lot of this has to do with inbreeding the more inbred they are the smaller they tend to be. You will find most game bred / game dogs are inbreed somewhere in the pedigree .... 


Ocassionly you have a dog who is born like Mayday who will fall outside the standard as far as weight is concerned it happens. But this is not a common breeding practice to breed outside the standard to get larger dogs on purpose .... you don't typically get an 80 lbs American Pitbull Terrier because these dogs were not bred to be that large to begin with. Does it happen? Of course history has proven that it does and can happen. But it's not something you will see very often. 


Pitbull Type dogs .. I have seen American Bullies who are bred within the weight standard of an American Pitbull Terrier that does not make them APBT'S just because the dog is a smaller Pitbull Type dog or bred closely to the standards of a true APBT. Once again you have to look at your dogs pedigree to determine purity. 

American Bully lines such as razors edge, gotti, grey line, watchdog, these lines orginated from game/staff blood but have since been crossed out with breeds such as Mastiff, OE bulldog, American Bulldog, Neo Mastiff, Corso, and other bulldog type breeds for so many generations ... Making them a mix breed or a new breed of dog. Commonly reffered to as a PITBULL type dog not an APBT.

The word PITBULL is just a generic term that can be used to describe the many pitbull type breeds that fall under the umbrella of the bully type breeds out there

American Pitbull Terrier is a breed

American Bully is a Breed 

American Staffordshire Terrier is a breed

Pitbull - is not a breed ....


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

that was fun, thanks.


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## vegasbound (Dec 5, 2008)

SadieBlues said:


> What I am saying is you must go by bloodline to determine if your dog is pure bred... American Pitbull Terriers originate from game lines. Jeep, Corvino, Colby, Redboy, Boli, Brodeoux, Old Family Rednose ect ... These are TRUE classic American Pitbull Terrier Bloodlines that have been bred to standard and even today are bred closley within the standard they started off . Game dogs and Game bred dogs typically are bred to be between 30-60 lbs give or take a few lbs that is the standard set for the American Pitbull Terrier however many of them fall within the 30-45 lbs range. A lot of this has to do with inbreeding the more inbred they are the smaller they tend to be. You will find most game bred / game dogs are inbreed somewhere in the pedigree ....
> 
> Ocassionly you have a dog who is born like Mayday who will fall outside the standard as far as weight is concerned it happens. But this is not common practice you don't typically get an 80 lbs American Pitbull Terrier because these dogs were not bred to be that large to begin with. Does it happen? Of course history has proven that it does and can happen. But it's not something you will see very often.
> 
> ...


You on fire tonight, great info!


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## rkj32 (Jul 17, 2008)

*u still didnt answer my ?*

like i said before u r 100% right with what u r saying,but my question is this, being that our dogs are no longer being breed for the purpose that the standard was created for.does those strick rules still apply.i am not saying that the standard should change,i just think that u can have a 80-85 dog from a gameline.now its not uncommon to put 60# female into a 75# male creating a bigger dogs.back in the days that would never happen,because large dogs didnt last long in the box.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

SadieBlues said:


> American Pitbull Terrier is a breed
> 
> American Bully is a Breed
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

rkj32 said:


> like i said before u r 100% right with what u r saying,but my question is this, being that our dogs are no longer being breed for the purpose that the standard was created for.does those strick rules still apply.i am not saying that the standard should change,i just think that u can have a 80-85 dog from a gameline.now its not uncommon to put 60# female into a 75# male creating a bigger dogs.back in the days that would never happen,because large dogs didnt last long in the box.


A game bred dog is a dog who stems from game bloodlines that has not been tested in the box it's still a game bred dog who stems from game lines or generations of game dogs ... These dogs are still just as true to the standard because of how they were bred and where they originate from (game bloodlines). And you still have game dogs out there it's not illegal to fight dogs in other parts of the world. You still have dogman breeding/fighting dogs to keep the breed true to standard either illgeally or legally.

Years of breeding did not change our dogs just because dog fighting has been outlawed in the US... The bloodlines I mentioned above are still true to standard for those breeder's who are keeping them true to standard.

You can still have a game bred/game dog that will pop up on the larger side .. It still is not as common as you would like to think. It happens but not often.

There are many people on here that own game bred dogs that don't fight their dogs they simply own dogs who stem from game lines these dogs are still a classic example of what years of breeding have given us with this breed. That will never change as long as you have breeder's out there who continue to maintain these lines keeping them as true to standard as they once were.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

is it possible that evolution will play a part in the sizes and specs for an apbt.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Evolution only plays a part in a species left to it's own natural selection. Dog breeds are not species, they are different types of a species. A dog breed goes in the direction it's taken by the breeders of the breed. 

The reason so many APBT fanciers get bent out of shape about what gets slapped with a pitbull label or even worse, called an APBT is because for many many years these dogs have been shaped and molded into what they are today, only for some BYB's with a bigger is better mentality to start taking the dogs into all sorts of wrong and unnatural directions. 

It's not about exact measurments or weight, it's about purpose and function and the underlying reason why these dogs are ending up scatterbred, bred for size, color, bad temperment, etc and ending up on the news and putting the entire "pitbull" category in jeapardy of being outlawed.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Good Post C


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

thaim said:


> you know what i think?... there is nothing you can do about the pitbulls becomming 100+ pounds they are going to be around for years to come and there isnt really much u can do about it. so you just need to be a little more open minded about it. sure they arent pure bred 100% apbt. but some people LIKE the looks and the size. the only thing i really care about is if these dogs are going to good homes because to me a dog is a dog. i would love a 40 pound pitbull just as much as a 150 pound pitbull.


No one said anything bad about Large bully type dogs, Just please do not call them pitbulls or APBT's because they are not. That is not being close minded. You said yourself "sure they are not pure bred 100% APBT" so why would you call them such?

Now sure you can get a genetic freak that will be large but not litter after litter of large dogs. That is when something got thrown in the mix. I do not care what a registration paper says those are easy to fake, look what happened to Razors Edge.

I had a large dog pop up in my lines so I know it does happen. It is a line I had for years and they were all about 55lbs and 65lbs at the largest. Then one litter I got a male that weighed 85lbs as an adult. A genetic freak that is rare.


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## Cocoa (Mar 24, 2009)

MISSAPBT said:


> is it possible that evolution will play a part in the sizes and specs for an apbt.


Excellent question 

Evolution in the scientific sense is what takes place in nature, via natural selection, as outlined by Charles Darwin.

Dogs are not necessarily products of natural selection, they are products of artificial selection, or rather man made selection. Which is to say, i most cases they are bred, selectively, by humans. The various breeds of dogs we have with us today have arrived through man's design, often being created to fulfill a purpose....

Whether that purpose is companionship, cartpulling, guarding, fighting, hunting, etc ---- they have come about through the intentional and controlled efforts of man.

In general, when the size of a breed changes, the temperament of a breed changes --- it is to address human desire. Supply and demand. People want bigger dogs, bigger dogs will be bred.

The Irish Wolfhound of old was said to be a terrible beast, but today is a gentle giant ----- it is not longer desired as a ferocious wolf hunter, so it has been bred into a gentle giant --- because people desire to own them as house pets.

Occasionally you will have a true mutant, but for the most part, if the characteristics of a breed change --- it's because someone is capitalizing on a demand for it.

ps - great discussion guys!

edit -- ah looks like Carriana beat me to it, nice catch girl


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Good Post Cocoa


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## jbh38 (Apr 26, 2008)

dennispits said:


> didnt the Dagger creator admit to cross breeding with a Mastif?


No, he did not ever say that


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## bluefamily (Aug 8, 2007)

*off the chain*

to my knowledge a standard APBT doesn't get bigger than 60lbs. I do believe that was a mastiff mix to be 148lbs.--I guess I am sloow on the draw y'all are way past me on this draw...


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## mikey077 (Mar 20, 2009)

patsar16 said:


> there are two types of breeders in my opinion. those who breed dogs such as pitbulls who want the biggest badest looking dogs simply to sell to those who want a "badass" looking dog. they do whatever they can to achieve the biggest results and the size of their dogs is the only thing they have but other than that they dont know shit to put it in everyday terms. Those breeders should be shunned and have no business breeding. then there are breeders who have years of experience and knowledge and produce big and excellent looking bullies. i dont know which senerio phantom rolls comes from but if you look at her site she appears to be a reputable, good breeder.i dont know that though so i cant stand up for her reputation all i can say is that there are some people who like that kind of look. look at toy breeds such as chihuahuas,yorkies etc. there are people out there who are breeding to get the smallest dogs possible. they pride themselves on the fact that full grown their dogs onl weigh 3lbs lol..it goes on everywhere not just in the pitbull world but i just say to each their own. as long as you like what you have then great.


 :goodpost::clap: Too many people on this forum cant just keep their negative opinions to themselves. Such haters...


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## jbh38 (Apr 26, 2008)

performanceknls said:


> No one said anything bad about Large bully type dogs, Just please do not call them pitbulls or APBT's because they are not. That is not being close minded. You said yourself "sure they are not pure bred 100% APBT" so why would you call them such?
> 
> Now sure you can get a genetic freak that will be large but not litter after litter of large dogs. That is when something got thrown in the mix. I do not care what a registration paper says those are easy to fake, look what happened to Razors Edge.
> 
> I had a large dog pop up in my lines so I know it does happen. It is a line I had for years and they were all about 55lbs and 65lbs at the largest. Then one litter I got a male that weighed 85lbs as an adult. A genetic freak that is rare.


but what would happen if you took that genetic freak and bred it to another genetic freak? You could truthfully create a large line of dogs. Why is it so impossible to think that is what happenned? Why always consider everyone with a large dog a liar before you know the details of how the dog came to be? Did anyone question where your 85 lb dog came from or that it was truly a pit bull? Everyone breeds for what they want, color, size, shape, whatever and over time, lines are created. Why is it so impossible to give anyone with a pit bull over 70 lbs the benefit of the doubt that they really do have a good dog?


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## mikey077 (Mar 20, 2009)

seriously who cares about all your arguements about a "correct pitbull" to each his own. and its none of your business if a person loves the american bully which is still considered a pitbull or the skinny apbt. leave it alone you lames.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

jbh38 said:


> but what would happen if you took that genetic freak and bred it to another genetic freak? You could truthfully create a large line of dogs. Why is it so impossible to think that is what happenned? Why always consider everyone with a large dog a liar before you know the details of how the dog came to be? Did anyone question where your 85 lb dog came from or that it was truly a pit bull? Everyone breeds for what they want, color, size, shape, whatever and over time, lines are created. Why is it so impossible to give anyone with a pit bull over 70 lbs the benefit of the doubt that they really do have a good dog?


not necessarily. He has been breed a few time with normal size offspring. This has been hashed out many times in many forums. You can breed for a bigger dog over time but not a 148lbs big. Just because you are breeding big dogs does not mean you are going to add weight and size to them with out adding another breed. And yes I have been to weigh pull events with his owner and people look sideways at him. Because unless I bred him and knew what was behind his pedigree I knew he was just a big dog. But you look at all these dogs they are saying are XXL pits and it is obviously a mix. Again look what happened to Razors Edge dogs. After denying it for years he admitted he used other breeds to make that line of dogs.

And that is fine I have nothing against Am bullies or mixes, it becomes a problem when they try to pass them off as APBT's.


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## BluePitsSoCal (Oct 5, 2008)

funny these types of questions always bring out the 'tools' who think 'this' type of pitbull is the real breed. or 'that' type cannot be a real pit if its over 50lbs, blah blah blah, who cares really? they are all types of pitbull and have similar characteristics. so chill out you tools


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## Hirihat (May 5, 2009)

see....this is why I love my rescues!! I can't argue anything about their lines!!! LOL

Seriously, though it can get very hard to figure out the "correct" terminology when there are so many variables involved. All the different registries registering dogs as different things, what is considered common terminology.....I cheat and call them all pitties/bullies....that way I am not saying anything in particular! LOL All of mine are rescues and I am fortunate enough to know a bit about their backgrounds but I don't have peds or anything....so when people ask what they are, I just say things like happy, loveable, princesses/princes, pretty, etc.....cheating I know, but what could be more honest??? LOL


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

SO HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WROTE A BOOK .........LOTS OF EXPERTS AROUND HERE !


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

No matter how much linebreeding or inbreeding you do, you will never get a 148 lb. "pit bull". The only way to get those results are from mixbreeding.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> SO HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WROTE A BOOK .........LOTS OF EXPERTS AROUND HERE !


lol you're too funny cutdownskennels. we do actually have a couple of authors on the site.


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## thaim (Feb 6, 2009)

COOL! after reading this whole thread i've come to a conclusion. MY BOY IS PURE BRED=) he is 78 pounds ripped at 1 year old. he's got the face of a true apbt. his head is not HUGE. it is very portioned with his body. i would say he's just out of a really good breeding. his mother was about 60 pounds. and his father was about 80-90 and both looked pure bred to me. they were not gotti line or anything like that. they looked like game bred dogs.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

bluefamily said:


> I do believe that was a mastiff mix to be 148lbs.--I guess I am sloow on the draw y'all are way past me on this draw...


:clap::clap::goodpost: and no one is past you they are all arguing over breeds of dog that have nothing to do with the fact that that dog is a mastiff lol.

Are you the ONLY person that has been reading the first pages jeeze!

We now have a huge Bully VS Game Dog thread for NO REASON!

A 148LB DOG HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING BULLY OR "PURE APBT"

A 148LBS IS A MASTIFF! No pitbull, no Bully, no APBT, MASTIFF.


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

some people will just never get it!


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## Hirihat (May 5, 2009)

american_pit13;150302
A 148LB IS A MASTIFF! No pitbull said:


> MAAAANNNNN!! Here I thought a 148 lb dog was only 2 lbs away from 150!!! Yeesh! ROFLMAO!!!
> :rofl: :rofl:
> 
> Threads turn reeeeeaaaaallll fast sometimes! LOL


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

see i was under the understanding that a true APBT is between the weight of 30-ish to 70-ish lbs. all parts of their body should be porportant (sp?), they should be very agile, usually short coats, eyes and ears set back into their head, yet there are dogs out there that are 'pitbull like' b/c they have a similar look to them so ppl tend to just say 'pitbull' to describe them. 
but for a dog to be over 100lbs and short that just doesn't seem healthy for a short body to hold that much weight. nothing against any bullie lovers or anything, please dont take me that way cuz i am a sucker for a big ol' fat head just as much as the next person, i just perfer my APBT to be true, or as true as you can get now days to the orginal dogs. 
now whoever posted those pics on the first page or so of those dogs, they are massive, very nice looking dogs..just not my taste..but hey, to each their own right?


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

WOW ......


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

NEELA said:


> lol you're too funny cutdownskennels. we do actually have a couple of authors on the site.


THIS FORUM IS HILARIOUS


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## bullydogla (Oct 15, 2008)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> WOW ......


Wow what? You started this mess with your 148lb dogs and your all capital letters.


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

bullydogla said:


> Wow what? You started this mess with your 148lb dogs and your all capital letters.


IF PEOPLE DONT LIKE THIS POST ........STAY OFF IT !!!


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

bullydogla said:


> Wow what? You started this mess with your 148lb dogs and your all capital letters.


yeah THOSE capital letters. lol

i too have come to the conclusion that Nismo my pure bred pit thats half lab  weighs 45 lbs so he must be a true APBT. lol


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## Pits4Life (Mar 31, 2009)

my gut tells me that this is a never ending thread lol...


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> SO FAR I'VE SEEN TWO @ 148 LBS. ON A HANGING SCALE . ONE WAS BISHOP OF DAGGER AND THE OTHER WAS PHANTOM ROLLS .


wow. thats not a f*^ing pitbull. im sorry but wow.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

another apbt - bully debate, most threads ive noticed turns into this haha


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> IF PEOPLE DONT LIKE THIS POST ........STAY OFF IT !!!


well if you dont like the way we are talking on our fourm ....STAY OFF OF IT!
you came on here asking a question like that and expect not to get all this...please..you knew what you were doing..


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> THIS FORUM IS HILARIOUS


the fact that you came here with this bull crap about a 148 lb dog on a pitbull forum is hilarious. i hope the "cutdowns" kennel isnt your byb operation


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

chic4pits said:


> well if you dont like the way we are talking on our fourm ....STAY OFF OF IT!
> you came on here asking a question like that and expect not to get all this...please..you knew what you were doing..


hell yeah if you dont like the responses you get on here then uh oh dont post. :hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer:


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## bullydogla (Oct 15, 2008)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> IF PEOPLE DONT LIKE THIS POST ........STAY OFF IT !!!


No, I think I'm gonna stay right here on this post so I can laugh at someone that has the word kennel in their username yet believes that 148lb pit bulls can be true to type.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

patsar16 said:


> my gut tells me that this is a never ending thread lol...


can i get an AMEN to that sister!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


grow up please


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Originally Posted by CUTDOWNSKENNELS View Post
SO FAR I'VE SEEN TWO @ 148 LBS. ON A HANGING SCALE . ONE WAS BISHOP OF DAGGER AND THE OTHER WAS PHANTOM ROLLS .

wasnt that ur original post??


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

bullydogla said:


> No, I think I'm gonna stay right here on this post so I can laugh at someone that has the word kennel in their username yet believes that 148lb pit bulls can be true to type.


now that is funny stuff!


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

SO HOW MUCH DOES YOUR GAME DOGS COST ??


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## Pits4Life (Mar 31, 2009)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> THIS FORUM IS HILARIOUS


i dont think think its hilarious. i actually think its pretty cool to see so many people so passionate about something and Im glad to be part of a world so passionate about pitbulls and am bullies.seeing this thread along with so many others that go on and on just goes to show u that we all spend so much time on this forum. i just hate to see people bashing each other. there is a fine line between arguing a point and just being an ass and picking on someone. i think its the people who cannot argue constructively that need to stay off of posts.


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

we dont sell dogs on here bro.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

you know i see where this guy is going..he's trying to come here and pic a fight..that's all, cuz now your going to ask us how much our dogs cost...?! really.....


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> SO HOW MUCH DOES YOUR GAME DOGS COST ??


well in my opinion game dogs that can win titles and come from champion bloodlines are worth more than ANYTHING bred for looks. i dont think im the only person on this forum who thinks that, either.

i supposed youre going to say those mastiff mutts are worth more pound for pound huh?

a dog like that will live half of its actual expectancy and you'll wonder why


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

patsar16 said:


> i dont think think its hilarious. i actually think its pretty cool to see so many people so passionate about something and Im glad to be part of a world so passionate about pitbulls and am bullies.seeing this thread along with so many others that go on and on just goes to show u that we all spend so much time on this forum. i just hate to see people bashing each other. there is a fine line between arguing a point and just being an ass and picking on someone. i think its the people who cannot argue constructively that need to stay off of posts.


I AGREE.........

:goodpost:


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Nizmo357 said:


> we dont sell dogs on here bro.


yeah well leave that to the back yard breeders


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

bullydogla said:


> No, I think I'm gonna stay right here on this post so I can laugh at someone that has the word kennel in their username yet believes that 148lb pit bulls can be true to type.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> I AGREE.........
> 
> :goodpost:


i agree too.


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> well in my opinion game dogs that can win titles and come from champion bloodlines are worth more than ANYTHING bred for looks. i dont think im the only person on this forum who thinks that, either.
> 
> i supposed youre going to say those mastiff mutts are worth more pound for pound huh?
> 
> a dog like that will live half of its actual expectancy and you'll wonder why


DOES CHAMPION WEIGHTPULL COUNT ??


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## bullydogla (Oct 15, 2008)

Ive had dogs for 16 years and never paid a dime for any of them.


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

I would like to see the papers and titles for this 148lb champion Weight Pull Purebreed APBT......................................................................


also wanted to add I to have never paid a penny for any of my papered purebreed APBT's


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

sw_df27 said:


> I would like to see the papers and titles for this 148lb champion Weight Pull Purebreed APBT......................................................................


lol shoulda named him tubby


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> DOES CHAMPION WEIGHTPULL COUNT ??


considering mastiffs count thats a pretty hard workin mutt


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## Pits4Life (Mar 31, 2009)

sw_df27 said:


> I would like to see the papers and titles for this 148lb champion Weight Pull Purebreed APBT......................................................................


her website is index

she has an email..maybe she could email copies of paperwork etc, i dont know just a thought for anyoen curious as to what lines this hulk size dog comes from lol.


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> considering mastiffs count thats a pretty hard workin mutt


MUTT IS A HARSH WORD .........LETS SEE YOUR PED :clap:


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

THAT STUD IS NOT A CHAMPION . THE BITCHES ARE FROM THE CHAMPION DAGGER BLOOD


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

If you can't stay on topic of the thread which is the 148lb dog you don't need to be here. This is not about everyone elses dogs and what everyone else breeds so their is no need to turn this personal that is lame and childish.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

american_pit13 said:


> If you can't stay on topic of the thread which is the 148lb dog you don't need to be here. This is not about everyone elses dogs and what everyone else breeds so their is no need to turn this personal that is lame and childish.


*claps* THANK YOU AP! like i said, this person is just poking trying to start stuff..


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

ha i actually got bad rep points for saying the word mutt. thats ridiculous. because i said that champion dogs are worth more, did i ever say that i had a champion bred dog? or that i paid an outrageous price if anything for my dog?

the subject was the 148lb "pure bred" dog. im sure ill get banned for my mouth but learn to f*&^ing read.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

patsar16 said:


> her website is index
> 
> she has an email..maybe she could email copies of paperwork etc, i dont know just a thought for anyoen curious as to what lines this hulk size dog comes from lol.


I checked out that link, and he is a beautiful dog, but my guess is that there's Neo Mastiff in there somewhere. But that is the case with most bullies. I have heard that Notorious Juan Gotti may be sired by a neo, so a significant portion of bullies probably have mastiff blood. This is not to say it is through any fault of the current breeders, papers could have been hung many many generations ago, and the right combo of genes met to produce a huge dog that exhibits traits long since believed to have been bred out. The reason dogs have such a variety of breeds is because of their slippery genome that allows them to change dramatically in a short time evolutionarily speaking. But this same trait allows for a spontaneous change, so even a sire and dam of small size can produce large offspring, thus explaining the big difference you see in sibs. However, Phantom Rolls is very loose-lipped, and APBT standard calls for a much tighter lip, so I think there is mastiff in there, but it could be anywhere in the lines, going back before computers and more advanced tracking, and the gene just popped up now.


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## bullydogla (Oct 15, 2008)

eh don't sweat the rep points. You have great rep here.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

FloorCandy said:


> I checked out that link, and he is a beautiful dog, but my guess is that there's Neo Mastiff in there somewhere. But that is the case with most bullies. I have heard that Notorious Juan Gotti may be sired by a neo, so a significant portion of bullies probably have mastiff blood. This is not to say it is through any fault of the current breeders, papers could have been hung many many generations ago, and the right combo of genes met to produce a huge dog that exhibits traits long since believed to have been bred out. The reason dogs have such a variety of breeds is because of their slippery genome that allows them to change dramatically in a short time evolutionarily speaking. But this same trait allows for a spontaneous change, so even a sire and dam of small size can produce large offspring, thus explaining the big difference you see in sibs. However, Phantom Rolls is very loose-lipped, and APBT standard calls for a much tighter lip, so I think there is mastiff in there, but it could be anywhere in the lines, going back before computers and more advanced tracking, and the gene just popped up now.


:goodpost:


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

bullydogla said:


> eh don't sweat the rep points. You have great rep here.


im not lol

im just shocked that i got the rep points saying "without papers your dog could be a mutt too"

and this post wasnt about MY dog lol


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## bullydogla (Oct 15, 2008)

FloorCandy said:


> I checked out that link, and he is a beautiful dog, but my guess is that there's Neo Mastiff in there somewhere. But that is the case with most bullies. I have heard that Notorious Juan Gotti may be sired by a neo, so a significant portion of bullies probably have mastiff blood. This is not to say it is through any fault of the current breeders, papers could have been hung many many generations ago, and the right combo of genes met to produce a huge dog that exhibits traits long since believed to have been bred out. The reason dogs have such a variety of breeds is because of their slippery genome that allows them to change dramatically in a short time evolutionarily speaking. But this same trait allows for a spontaneous change, so even a sire and dam of small size can produce large offspring, thus explaining the big difference you see in sibs. However, Phantom Rolls is very loose-lipped, and APBT standard calls for a much tighter lip, so I think there is mastiff in there, but it could be anywhere in the lines, going back before computers and more advanced tracking, and the gene just popped up now.


Yes or as you even said "hung papers" ala RE style


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> im not lol
> 
> im just shocked that i got the rep points saying "without papers your dog could be a mutt too"
> 
> and this post wasnt about MY dog lol


I gave you rep  So I bet you netted rep in this case lol


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

StaffyDaddy said:


> im not lol
> 
> im just shocked that i got the rep points saying "without papers your dog could be a mutt too"
> 
> and this post wasnt about MY dog lol


i wouldn't worry about those...this person is picking at ppl on here...you had the right to say what you said, you didn't say it offensive..just simply stated what you thought. some ppl just can't see past their own noses.


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## thaim (Feb 6, 2009)

ok guys lets just stop this thread here LOL everything that needed to be said has been said. there isnt much more u can say to convince people other wise haha. each and everyone one of us here have beautifuls dogs that we are proud of. if someone wants to own a 150 pound bully and pay 7 grand for it it's there problem. if the dog is well behaved and well mannered who cares. i would honestly love to see a 150 bully in action just to see what it can do(probably not much but thats ok. it would be a funny spectacle haha). some people like the big fat pits. some people like the game bred pits. its a matter of preferance. i like ALL of them. anything from pocket pits - oversized pits. if they were all well behaved its fine with me. i don't see it as "ruining" the breed. i see it as making NEW breeds. isnt that how all the different types of dogs came to be through all these years anyways? if we never mixed the dogs to begin with there would never be an apbt. so whats the problem... i think the term is... evolution haha


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## Hirihat (May 5, 2009)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> SO HOW MUCH DOES YOUR GAME DOGS COST ??


actually, a lot of people on here have unregistered, rescue dogs because of irresponsible BYB's who are trying to breed for looks rather than health and function. We either pay rescue fees or pull fees to shelters to save them from being killed because some one else was careless. What does that cost??? A lot of time, dedication, money for vetting and transport and a lot of heart break for the ones you can't save because some one got a dog they couldn't handle or a litter they couldn't sell or pups who didn't turn out the way they wanted (merle, blue, short, not bully enough, too bully, etc.). Then you have the true game dog fanciers who often are involved with breeding programs to preserve the American Pit Bull Terrier and many of them trade pups for breeding stock and/or give pups to friends they know to be responsible owners.

ALSO, DROP THE ALL CAPS PLEASE!!! All caps is considered rude by most people on the internet, in case you didn't know. Although, I suspect you do.  



bullydogla said:


> eh don't sweat the rep points. You have great rep here.


I completely agree! :clap:


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## Hirihat (May 5, 2009)

thaim said:


> ok guys lets just stop this thread here LOL everything that needed to be said has been said. there isnt much more u can say to convince people other wise haha. each and everyone one of us here have beautifuls dogs that we are proud of. if someone wants to own a 150 pound bully and pay 7 grand for it it's there problem. if the dog is well behaved and well mannered who cares. i would honestly love to see a 150 bully in action just to see what it can do(probably not much but thats ok. it would be a funny spectacle haha). some people like the big fat pits. some people like the game bred pits. its a matter of preferance. i like ALL of them. anything from pocket pits - oversized pits. if they were all well behaved its fine with me. i don't see it as "ruining" the breed. i see it as making NEW breeds. isnt that how all the different types of dogs came to be through all these years anyways? if we never mixed the dogs to begin with there would never be an apbt. so whats the problem... i think the term is... evolution haha


:goodpost: :clap: :goodpost: :clap: :goodpost: :clap:


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

thanks for the negative rep points 
its my first


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Nizmo357 said:


> thanks for the negative rep points
> its my first


good glad your happy i thought u deserved them after giving them to me for no reason


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> SO FAR I'VE SEEN TWO @ 148 LBS. ON A HANGING SCALE . ONE WAS BISHOP OF DAGGER AND THE OTHER WAS PHANTOM ROLLS





CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> THIS FORUM IS HILARIOUS


I think some of our members are HILARIOUS Lol



CUTDOWNSKENNELS said:


> DOES CHAMPION WEIGHTPULL COUNT ??


How much was the most this Champion pulled? And what weight was the dog?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

This thread is No longer educating and has become a b*tching match .. I am closing it. In the future for newbies who post and ask questions .. Please understand that this is a forum where people come to educate and to learn. You don't have to agree with everyone's opinions but if you ask a question your going to get many different answers. Know one is forcing you to take any information shared here it's up to you to decide what you will and will not listen to . But please do not ask questions if your not prepared to get answers that may or may not agree with your beliefs.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

SadieBlues said:


> This thread is No longer educating and has become a b*tching match .. I am closing it. In the future for newbies who post and ask questions .. Please understand that this is a forum where people come to educate and to learn. You don't have to agree with everyone's opinions but if you ask a question your going to get many different answers. Know one is forcing you to take anyone's information shared here it's up to you to decide what you will and will not listen to . But please do not ask questions if your not prepared to get answers that may or may not agree with your beliefs.


:goodpost:


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