# American Bullies are on the rise!



## outlaw250 (Dec 11, 2009)

Some may like them, some may not! But the fact is, long time Amstaff and APBT breeders are incorporating bullies in their programs! BTW, not all bully breeders have no breeding ethics! So please dont take just one persons word for it, go study the breed! I have, and have selectively chosen certain breeders that keep in mind the structural aspects of breeding! But there are some people that shouldnt be breeders at all! I mean, these are the ones breeding structurally messed up, severely deformed dogs...and calling it "fire"! But like I said, there are ethical breeders still around in the "Bully" world! But dont take my word for it, or any "bully" haters...go and see for yourself! You just might like what you see! Peace!


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Huh?....i don't follow the logic here.
What is the point?
A bully pit has no function beside a companion animal.
That is why many breeders have no standard to go by.


----------



## Aidan (Nov 3, 2009)

I do not understand the point of this thread. If you read into this forum you would realize there are many bully owners and lovers and this is a bully breed forum.


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

No offense intended....i just dont follow the op.


----------



## SEO (Jul 7, 2009)

I don't think APBT breeders are incorporating the bully in the breed program, sorry.


----------



## outlaw250 (Dec 11, 2009)

lol, some are. Even CH their APBT's out, then breeding to American Bullies! Some are CH out their AMSTAFF's, then taking them to American Bullies! You may not, but there are more and more doing it! Dont get me wrong, I love all bull style dogs!


----------



## SEO (Jul 7, 2009)

It just doesn't make any sense. Why would they do that? PLEASE tell me.


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

to follow the trend of big heads and mass and $$$.


----------



## SEO (Jul 7, 2009)

Sampsons Dad said:


> to follow the trend of big heads and mass and $$$.


No offence, but they most not know what they are doing. I mean really.


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I have studied the breed, and I find it extremely hard to find reputable breeders, and breeders who health test their dogs and earn titles on them. I started a thread a week or so ago and got maybe a handful of kennels at most that health tested and titled. These kennels for the most part had nice dogs, but I still saw the name "pits" listed on their website. I really hate this because people go on and on about how they are their own breed, but the breeders (i guess even the good ones) are still using the name pit. Why is that? Why do they continue to piggy back off the name?

And I joined their forums before, and saw a bunch of puppies and breedings being peddled for 1,000's of dollars by subpar and deformed dogs, and the whole forum of members was cheering them on for it. 

So when someone can show me a breeder calling them bullies, breeding them as bullies, health testing them and titling them... and then selling them for the same price as around the ch APBT's I've seen that are health tested and titled.... then I might respect bully breeders and the community.... MIGHT I still don't agree with creating a new breed that is bigger and more intimidating to replace a breed with an already bad reputation for being aggressive. They just made them bigger and more intimidating looking... And the breed was already over run with bybs and subpar dogs... now they created 3 more breeds of them!! When does it end?


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

That iswhy Colby is one of my favorite breeders of all time....the dogs look the same...100 years ago and today!


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Sampsons Dad said:


> That iswhy Colby is one of my favorite breeders of all time....the dogs look the same...100 years ago and today!


I love Colby dogs as well. I hate when people claim to have Colby blood...


----------



## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

Has it ever occurred to any of you that incorporating apbt or ast blood could better the american bully? A breeder bringing in new blood/genetics to a forever shrinking gene pool can only help. Honestly I applaud this, I mean as long as this blood/genes stay in the bully realm its all good, a step in the right direction jmo of course. Ramos porkchop express aka porky is a product of this method and quite frankly I think he is an elite bully. 

Comparing a breed that was established over a 100 years ago to a breed that hasn't even been established(jmo) is retarded. Give the bully some time, they'll get it right....I hope.

I have no problem with bully breeders calling their dogs pits, as long as their not calling them apbt's I have no issues. Pitbull is generic term imo.


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

los44 said:


> Has it ever occurred to any of you that incorporating apbt or ast blood could better the american bully? A breeder bringing in new blood/genetics to a forever shrinking gene pool can only help. Honestly I applaud this, I mean as long as this blood/genes stay in the bully realm its all good, a step in the right direction jmo of course. Ramos porkchop express aka porky is a product of this method and quite frankly I think he is an elite bully.
> 
> Comparing a breed that was established over a 100 years ago to a breed that hasn't even been established(jmo) is retarded. Give the bully some time, they'll get it right....I hope.
> 
> I have no problem with bully breeders calling their dogs pits, as long as their not calling them apbt's I have no issues. Pitbull is generic term imo.


"Pit Bull" is a short reference term. pitbull, pitt bull are generic. Why don't they just call them bullies? Amstaff people call their dogs Amstaffs or staffies, Staffordshire bull terriers are staffy bulls....

Calling them "pits and pit bulls" lead uneducated people into believing that they are getting an APBT.. because most people don't understand all the technicalities.


----------



## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

Sampsons Dad said:


> That iswhy Colby is one of my favorite breeders of all time....the dogs look the same...100 years ago and today!


no they don't


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

BLUE PIT BULL MAN said:


> no they don't


Well pretty close. They are pretty "Coby" looking... yes "Coby" not coLby
Oh you know what I mean right? lol


----------



## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

Shes Got Heart said:


> "Pit Bull" is a short reference term. pitbull, pitt bull are generic. Why don't they just call them bullies? Amstaff people call their dogs Amstaffs or staffies, Staffordshire bull terriers are staffy bulls....
> 
> Calling them "pits and pit bulls" lead uneducated people into believing that they are getting an APBT.. because most people don't understand all the technicalities.


I mean however you say it you say it, is that "term" spelled differently yes but how is it pronounced? It's all the same. Is it a generalization sure it is. its like when you see a Spanish looking person you don't say well that's a Dominican or that's a Cuban, you more than likely say that person is Spanish. But whatever I'm just a boy.


----------



## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

ok some do but alot are different looking. imo


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

los44 said:


> I mean however you say it you say it, is that "term" spelled differently yes but how is it pronounced? It's all the same. Is it a generalization sure it is. its like when you see a Spanish looking person you don't say well that's a Dominican or that's a Cuban, you more than likely say that person is Spanish. But whatever I'm just a boy.


Don't get me started on that. You have just made a very uneducated statement. For one I'm Spanish, my dad was actually born in Spain and my whole family has whiter skin than most white Americans. Poeple from Spain are Spanish the term your looking for is Latino. Dominicans and Cubans are not Spanish. Just like an American Bully is not an APBT. That realy bothers me cause people associate Spanish as dark hair, dark skin, dark eyes, but that is not what being Spanish is. Here's my pic I have super white skin and light green eyes.


----------



## outlaw250 (Dec 11, 2009)

Los, your absolutely right! Porky is perfect example of the outcross between Gaff and American Bully! He looks just like an overdone APBT with the right head!


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

*Spanish*

I am Puerto Rican......and I consider myself American,
or New Yorican, or Spanish. In case you are unaware the Caribbean
Latino population was established by the Spanish slave traders and farmers.
So just because I don't look like a white person that does not have any bearing on how Spanish I am.


----------



## Crash pups person (Nov 3, 2009)

kg420 said:


> Don't get me started on that. You have just made a very uneducated statement. For one I'm Spanish, my dad was actually born in Spain and my whole family has whiter skin than most white Americans. Poeple from Spain are Spanish the term your looking for is Latino. Dominicans and Cubans are not Spanish. Just like an American Bully is not an APBT. That realy bothers me cause people associate Spanish as dark hair, dark skin, dark eyes, but that is not what being Spanish is. Here's my pic I have super white skin and light green eyes.


Since we are now so far off topic can I give rep points for that piece on your arm?


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

You guys crack me up, Pitt bull is not a generic term it is a commonly used typo by people who don't know what the hell they are talking about... usually back yard breeders in their Kijiji, newspaper or craigslist ad. Pit Bull is a term used to refer to a group of dogs... aka "generic" term. 

I'm with Los on this one, why not incorporate some structure to the Am Bully? Lord knows many of them need it. The APBT did not have a unison look or appeal until more recent years because they had a purpose.... they were not bred to look like any certain type they were bred for function. The Am. Bully is bred for companionship which is slowly coming together as far as looks go, only because of continous line and In breeding. Why not open the gene pool some and help these dogs out as far as health and a physical standard? Hmm, well I guess we'll always be shunned if we try or do not try to better our breed. Screw it.


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

I think if you must breed bullies, then add good healthy APBT blood but please call the dog a mix not a pit bull. There is nothing wrng with calling a dog a Bully pit or ban dog but just dont market them as APBT.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

*AS PREVIOUSLY POSTED*: The true American Bulldog is infact an APBT.. People have forgotten that every bit of true grit bulldog in the the genes of our lil' game dogs. The original Bulldog went into the fighting pit; forever dubbed "Pit Bull". I have seen the building foundations of American Bulldogs, they are mixed breed dogs still purifying traits, DNA TESTING PROVES THIS, as after 4 generations it reads mixed breed dogs Eng Bulldog, APBT, Mastiff. I like the "Bulldog" head on the "pit bull" body. I have pure bred, APBT stock and this has been what my line has conformed to by breeding dogs for a sound game temperment, I have bred dogs to chase and catch predators coytoes, to bears, Pure dogs of prey. I do not breed to sell dogs MySpace - MySpace - www.myspace.com/64227481 you can view my current stock, here you will see my bulldog faced dogs of almost pure Jocko, lines. I like the American Bulldogs, just don't need to wash blood back and forth, its already there. PLUS when these dogs get out and bite people, MORE SO THAN APBTs its of course a "pit bull" attack. Owners aren't going to argue because it directs the focus from AmBullies.. Pollitics. who needs it.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Sampsons Dad said:


> I think if you must breed bullies, then add good healthy APBT blood but please call the dog a mix not a pit bull. There is nothing wrng with calling a dog a Bully pit or ban dog but just dont market them as APBT.


I completely agree, I never call my bullies APBT nor do I lump my real APBT in with my bullies.


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Firehazard said:


> *AS PREVIOUSLY POSTED*: The true American Bulldog is infact an APBT.. People have forgotten that every bit of true grit bulldog in the the genes of our lil' game dogs. The original Bulldog went into the fighting pit; forever dubbed "Pit Bull". I have seen the building foundations of American Bulldogs, they are mixed breed dogs still purifying traits, DNA TESTING PROVES THIS, as after 4 generations it reads mixed breed dogs Eng Bulldog, APBT, Mastiff. I like the "Bulldog" head on the "pit bull" body. I have pure bred, APBT stock and this has been what my line has conformed to by breeding dogs for a sound game temperment, I have bred dogs to chase and catch predators coytoes, to bears, Pure dogs of prey. I do not breed to sell dogs MySpace - MySpace - www.myspace.com/64227481 you can view my current stock, here you will see my bulldog faced dogs of almost pure Jocko, lines. I like the American Bulldogs, just don't need to wash blood back and forth, its already there. PLUS when these dogs get out and bite people, MORE SO THAN APBTs its of course a "pit bull" attack. Owners aren't going to argue because it directs the focus from AmBullies.. Pollitics. who needs it.


AmBully is not the sameas an American bull dog...if I am correct.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Sampsons Dad said:


> AmBully is not the sameas an American bull dog...if I am correct.


You are correcto-mundo... this is a common thing...even when i introduce my dogs as Am Bullies people say "they're not big enough to be american bulldogs" lmfao


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Bully is a new term derived to give a cute name to the Hippos they have constured from breeding intense game dogs to heavy boned show dogs, the purifying through linebreeding a "bully" gene if you will that producs short, bulky, and non game APBTs bloodline. Dangerous becaue when moved away from the game gene the dog now just has prey drive; thats dangerous to any running object. I like all "bully" breeds meaning anything that has come from the Old world game dog "pit bulldog" from Boston's to Presa's. HOWEVER if people are gonna seperate strains of bloodlines into types of dogs, then we must adhere to such politics and rename the whole breed of APBT. APBT being 40lbs under 40lbs + being American Pit Bulldogs, 80 + being American Pit Bull Mastiff. IRONIC because the BULL MASTIFF originally known as THE PitBull Mastiff, as it was a cross of the long time seperate lines of the fighting bulldog and mastiff, mind you they all come from the same stock just LINE BRED to isolate traits. The truth is any MOLOSSER breed dog can be bred out in into game dog lineage, from which they come. However the "bullbiter""bulldog""pitbulldog/pitbull" can never be bred out; its where all the prey drive and intensity comes from. This is why all these new/old breeds require the APBT blood, including AmStaffs who have to use a game dog strain once in while to keep their stock sure. The American Pit Bull Terrier, the most diverse pure bred dog; from 25lbs to 125lbs, from snipey/wirey to blocky/bulky, from driven to game, its all the same~ APBT the true grit bulldog.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Firehazard said:


> Bully is a new term derived to give a cute name to the Hippos they have constured from breeding intense game dogs to heavy boned show dogs, the purifying through linebreeding a "bully" gene if you will that producs short, bulky, and non game APBTs bloodline. Dangerous becaue when moved away from the game gene the dog now just has prey drive; thats dangerous to any running object. I like all "bully" breeds meaning anything that has come from the Old world game dog "pit bulldog" from Boston's to Presa's. HOWEVER if people are gonna seperate strains of bloodlines into types of dogs, then we must adhere to such politics and rename the whole breed of APBT. APBT being 40lbs under 40lbs + being American Pit Bulldogs, 80 + being American Pit Bull Mastiff. IRONIC because the BULL MASTIFF originally known as THE PitBull Mastiff, as it was a cross of the long time seperate lines of the fighting bulldog and mastiff, mind you they all come from the same stock just LINE BRED to isolate traits.


Interesting because none of my bullies top 50 pounds... and they're still not APBT


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

eh i lied... they fluctuate between 45-55 pounds


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

I think you are a little off. There were catch weight pit bulls from the start. You corrected yourself while I was typing this.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I was making a saracastic comment toward the politics in dog breeding. I don't believe that, however I believe that people will as they are seperating one breed from another when its just a simple matter of linebred traits.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

But they are, If I took one of your dogs, and bred him/her into my stock then never touched the AM Bulldog again in 2 generations your line would be all but gone, and in 3-5 would be untraceable. I have pure game dog stock, and my last two generations have produced bulldog heads and pit bull bodies. My dogs can kill coyotes and feral dogs with little hesitation, and like a cat they do it by shutting off the blood supply to the head, without breaking skin on the throat. While the coyote or feral dog is "fighting" my dogs simply flip them over with very lil' fight and soon the prey goes to sleep. _My dogs with the short blocky skull are expert as this, while the more "pit bull" headed dogs, are more likley to make a fight of it_. I also feed coyotes and wild game to my dogs; as a vet tech, caninie behavior specialist and an consultant in canine genetics, I can tell you that the true "pit bull" can be found in most "pure bred" dogs as we know, just have to go back far enough. At the same time those breeds because they are founded on the "pit bulldog"; can be wash out taken to the "pit bull". Its the same with huskies, Spitz, and other nordic dogs, they wash away quick in the blood of a wolf, HOWEVER the dog gene that has been modified to not fear man, never goes away.


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Sampsons Dad said:


> AmBully is not the sameas an American bull dog...if I am correct.


you are absolutely right this is a real american bulldog they are their own breed and no the do not have apbt blood in them at all


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

los44 said:


> I have no problem with bully breeders calling their dogs pits, as long as their not calling them apbt's I have no issues. *Pitbull is generic term imo.*


:goodpost:


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

But they all do, all American Bulldogs have "APBT" stock in their building blocks, I have seen the DNA tests first hand. Most American Bulldogs when looking at the seven gen, have pure APBT's or APBT crosses in the founding building blocks, CH Rascal(from the Lil' Rascals TV show, not the movie with the "scott type dog") is such a dog that has been used and have read personally in the pedigrees of Am Bulldog stock. Dog politics may tell you other wise, but truth is, they all come from game dog stock, the fighting bulldog went into the pit, forever dubbed "pit bull". Thats common sense to all dogmen, and when backed by science, only politics can refute it.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Pure Jocko..... APBT's a true grit bulldog.. This is Duma 37lbs and from wild/feral dogs, coyote, bobcats, wolverine, bulls and bear too.. Nothing this lil' girl has wrangled..


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/66/m_a59968e7c47047438de1b56a5cfc280b.jpg

3/4 pure zebo~ halls/garner outcross.. 30lbs sire to my next generation through Duma pictured above. All the pups had blocked heads with short wide muzzles~


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> But they all do, all American Bulldogs have "APBT" stock in their building blocks, I have seen the DNA tests first hand. Most American Bulldogs when looking at the seven gen, have pure APBT's or APBT crosses in the founding building blocks, CH Rascal(from the Lil' Rascals TV show, not the movie with the "scott type dog") is such a dog that has been used and have read personally in the pedigrees of Am Bulldog stock. Dog politics may tell you other wise, but truth is, they all come from game dog stock, the fighting bulldog went into the pit, forever dubbed "pit bull". Thats common sense to all dogmen, and when backed by science, only politics can refute it.


Here's my dogs peds No APBT blood.They go back to John Johnson's origional dogs.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

In my personal opinoin, if a true AMERICAN BULLDOG is what people are looking for, then they need to find a true Alapaha (blue blood bulldog) to find pure stock in this is rare; most of them have been crossed into "American Bulldog" and "Pit Bull" stock. However that top dog you put up,is an Otto dog, which is pretty much what an Alapaha Bulldog is 100% Plus they have been breeding pure strains since the confederacy.. The Lana Lou bulldogs aren't cheep and if you find a good one now that she has passed and no one has the heart to keep the stock as they were, it'll be the best lil' bulldog you ever had.


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> In my personal opinoin, if a true AMERICAN BULLDOG is what people are looking for, then they need to find a true Alapaha (blue blood bulldog) to find pure stock in this is rare; most of them have been crossed into "American Bulldog" and "Pit Bull" stock. However that top dog you put up,is an Otto dog, which is pretty much what an Alapaha Bulldog is 100% Plus they have been breeding pure strains since the confederacy.. The Lana Lou bulldogs aren't cheep and if you find a good one now that she has passed and no one has the heart to keep the stock as they were, it'll be the best lil' bulldog you ever had.


The top dog Is 100% American Bulldog Her Name is Snuggles she is my females mother. Here's our females ped. Look where it says Dam McMartin's snuggles. Definatly not an otto dog.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I seen your peds the first time you posted and can pick out Johnsons pit stock in the last block.. Just because they put the title Johnson's Golden lady doesn't mean its not "pit bulldog" stock. Sorrells dogs all read sorrells yet half of them are actually zebo and beaudreaux. This is part of Johnson plan to show the dogs are and have been line bred purely for "the JOhnson" characteristic. He simply wanted to bring the bulldog out in the Pit Bulldog, and leave as much terrier blood out of his stock as possible. It really doesn't matter except for the simple fact of what is and what is not. For everyone we believe what we percieve. I'm not into arguing or fighting, I just do not comply to politics and call a spade a spade.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I didn't call your dog an OTTO dog in the sense of thats what it really is, I said that as a comparison that the dog you have already existed, in the Otto line. I actually like that dog on top, and believe he would be a great working dog, my whole point here was to bring to light that in a DNA test it will read mix breed dogs in the building blocks of the pure strain. Almost all dogs are like this; even the Bull Terrier which begins with {pit bull} stock, but thats not what they say at the dog shows.. LOL politics who needs it.


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> my whole point here was to bring to light that in a DNA test it will read mix breed dogs in the building blocks of the pure strain. Almost all dogs are like this; even the Bull Terrier which begins with {pit bull} stock, but thats not what they say at the dog shows.. LOL politics who needs it.


:goodpost:


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> I seen your peds the first time you posted and can pick out Johnsons pit stock in the last block.. Just because they put the title Johnson's Golden lady doesn't mean its not "pit bulldog" stock. Sorrells dogs all read sorrells yet half of them are actually zebo and beaudreaux. This is part of Johnson plan to show the dogs are and have been line bred purely for "the JOhnson" characteristic. He simply wanted to bring the bulldog out in the Pit Bulldog, and leave as much terrier blood out of his stock as possible. It really doesn't matter except for the simple fact of what is and what is not. For everyone we believe what we percieve. I'm not into arguing or fighting, I just do not comply to politics and call a spade a spade.


This is Johnson's golden lady she doesn't look like apbt to me that's an american bulldog.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Firehazard said:


> But they are, If I took one of your dogs, and bred him/her into my stock then never touched the AM Bulldog again in 2 generations your line would be all but gone, and in 3-5 would be untraceable. I have pure game dog stock, and my last two generations have produced bulldog heads and pit bull bodies. My dogs can kill coyotes and feral dogs with little hesitation, and like a cat they do it by shutting off the blood supply to the head, without breaking skin on the throat. While the coyote or feral dog is "fighting" my dogs simply flip them over with very lil' fight and soon the prey goes to sleep. _My dogs with the short blocky skull are expert as this, while the more "pit bull" headed dogs, are more likley to make a fight of it_. I also feed coyotes and wild game to my dogs; as a vet tech, caninie behavior specialist and an consultant in canine genetics, I can tell you that the true "pit bull" can be found in most "pure bred" dogs as we know, just have to go back far enough. At the same time those breeds because they are founded on the "pit bulldog"; can be wash out taken to the "pit bull". Its the same with huskies, Spitz, and other nordic dogs, they wash away quick in the blood of a wolf, HOWEVER the dog gene that has been modified to not fear man, never goes away.


Great discussion you guys!

Sounds like you have some decent bulldogs, but a bulldog no matter what "type" will not hesitate to preform what it originally was bred to do when put in that posistion. American bulldog, APBT, am staff, am bully they'll all do the same thing if the situation is right. APBT will do what it has been bred to do no matter what the situation is. The American Bully has been bred away from prey drive and dog aggression on purpose. I hope you get the chance to meet a quality am bully sooner rather than later so you can form a little more of an educated oppinion.

Yes, you can out cross and breed back to the APBT, but you still lose the authenticity which every real APBT owner or someone aspiring to purchase wants when they set out on their quest to find a dog. Just because 6 out of 7 bellymates resemble an APBT with their temperament and drive does not consitute an APBT. DNA test to prove breeds is a bunch of hog wash, you can actually use the search button and read a few members personal experiences with the scam. I really don't want you to take what I'm saying as a personal attack, and I really enjoy the discussion... but a vet tech and a behavioralist are not breed experts.

Just because your dogs butt heads with coyotes and ferral dogs do not make your dog game. Coyotes and ferral dogs are not even close to a quality "match" to prove that your dog is game.


----------



## DarkMoon (Nov 26, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> But they all do, all American Bulldogs have "APBT" stock in their building blocks, I have seen the DNA tests first hand. Most American Bulldogs when looking at the seven gen, have pure APBT's or APBT crosses in the founding building blocks, CH Rascal(from the Lil' Rascals TV show, not the movie with the "scott type dog") is such a dog that has been used and have read personally in the pedigrees of Am Bulldog stock.


I would like to know what DNA testing you've seen, because so far to date there is NO DNA testing that can test for APBT. That's why it is so hard/easy for people to prove that their hards are/aren't APBTs.

I also thought that Bulldogs were the founding breed of APBTs not the opposite way around.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

DarkMoon said:


> I would like to know what DNA testing you've seen, because so far to date there is NO DNA testing that can test for APBT. That's why it is so hard/easy for people to prove that their hards are/aren't APBTs.
> 
> I also thought that Bulldogs were the founding breed of APBTs not the opposite way around.


yes sir, that was my interpretation of the countless years of research that I did before aquiring my first APBT


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Heres a bulldog enthusiat and historian, that sums it all up... Like I was saying its simple genetics and linebreeding what works best for you.

WEBPS: Separation of Type...Pit Dogs and Stock Dogs


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

DarkMoon said:


> I would like to know what DNA testing you've seen, because so far to date there is NO DNA testing that can test for APBT. That's why it is so hard/easy for people to prove that their hards are/aren't APBTs.
> 
> I also thought that Bulldogs were the founding breed of APBTs not the opposite way around.


Me too the bulldogs were here first I think. I could be wrong but I know my bulldogs don't have any apbt blood.


----------



## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

kg420 said:


> Don't get me started on that. You have just made a very uneducated statement. For one I'm Spanish, my dad was actually born in Spain and my whole family has whiter skin than most white Americans. Poeple from Spain are Spanish the term your looking for is Latino. Dominicans and Cubans are not Spanish. Just like an American Bully is not an APBT. That realy bothers me cause people associate Spanish as dark hair, dark skin, dark eyes, but that is not what being Spanish is. Here's my pic I have super white skin and light green eyes.


My great grandma was white with blue eyes so was her mother, a spaniard. I have people in my family as white as you describe, you are the one that made the uneducated statement, pick up a history book, read it! I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw but if I remember correctly the Spanish colonized the caribean hence Puerto rico, hispaniola oh and I shouldn't leave out that language they left behind. BTW my gf is white with green eyes and shes Puerto rican, so is she Spanish or Latino I mean she fits your description of Spanish?

Sorry to the op but that ignorant statement really struck a nerve!


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I am glad you brought up the authenticity of DNA tests.. A true DNA test is simple and easy, as well as accurate. Very similar tests on humans to prove Native American ancestory. Anyhow,, Its all politics. They dont like to do DNA tests on APBTs because the truth is they are the founding stock for dogs from Bostons, to Mastiffs. Even the Labrador is founded by a german bullbiter to a newfounland. Politics says other wise in most cases, however there is literature that proves this as well as the DNA test. They say the founding blocks are Mixed blood, when really, its the APBT. The purest breed of dog out there, Staffs, AmStaffs, Bull Terriers, Am Bulldogs, all from the same old world stock "pit bulldog", known today as APBT.Thats it right there, _thats why I quit training police dogs POLITICS, people believe what their told and are content with knowing what they are told._ ANYHOW.. It is a great discussion indeed, although I value your opinion I also know from a fact of seeing some original American Bulldog paper work for AM Bulldogs, and Old English Bulldogs as well in the late 80's early 90's I seen firsthand APBT stock and crosses in the foundation of Johnson and Scott type dogs. My only real point here is that when these dogs attack people, its a "pit bull" attack.


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

los44 said:


> My great grandma was white with blue eyes so was her mother, a spaniard. I have people in my family as white as you describe, you are the one that made the uneducated statement, pick up a history book, read it! I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw but if I remember correctly the Spanish colonized the caribean hence Puerto rico, hispaniola oh and I shouldn't leave out that language they left behind. BTW my gf is white with green eyes and shes Puerto rican, so is she Spanish or Latino I mean she fits your description of Spanish?
> 
> Sorry to the op but that ignorant statement really struck a nerve!


I know my history. The point I was making is that is that Spanish people are from Spain and Cubans are from Cuba. Would you call a Spanish person a Mexican cause they speek the same language? If your g.f. is from Puerto Rica then I'd say she's Puerta Rican. Latino is a word that is used for all like Mexican, Puerta Rican, El Salvadorian, and others. Just because you speek spanish doesn't make you spanish. And the places that the Spanish colonized are now their own cultures, they are not Spaniards any more.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

you guys please don't make me have to close down this thread.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

The original bulldog depicted in countless tapestries, and artwork. Is not the brachiphyliac squatty bulldog as is percieved. When in fact it is the bulldog as we know it the American Pit Bull Terrier. Bulldog was the original name for the gamey dog that was thrown into the pit forever dubbed, Pit Bull. That dog still is among us today. It was in the 16th or 17th century when the King declared the bulldog is the Staffordshire Terrier, as he was a experimentalist and legend has it he bred the pit dog to a pug. Naming this outcome the English Bulldog, he renamed the pit bulldog, Staffordshire Terrier.. Which is ironically closer to being a true "pit" than an Am Staff. That is both history and science. As a English Bulldog has one or two blocks that read pug. Ironic..


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

hey firehazard, could you start a new thread for that topic please? We got way off topic here, when the thread was originally created to discuss American Bullies not American Bulldogs.


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> hey firehazard, could you start a new thread for that topic please? We got way off topic here, when the thread was originally created to discuss American Bullies not American Bulldogs.


I started a thread for american bulldogs already I think it's in general disscusion.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I know two different couples, who are both native american and white, heavy native american with dark hair and dark eyes. BOth couples have blonde children with blue eyes... Thats genetics, all the like genes line up and those that aren't stick out, some will be recessive in one child but dominant in another, this is genetics. Oh well, THOSE ARE SOME REALLY NICE DOGS> no matter what you call em'... My whole agenda was to show they all come from game stock which is essentially APBT, and that if an AM Bulldog bites someone they are called "pit bulls".


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

My bad, I noticed American Bulldog comment and went from there. Sure thing; Im out.


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

los44 said:


> My great grandma was white with blue eyes so was her mother, a spaniard. I have people in my family as white as you describe, you are the one that made the uneducated statement, pick up a history book, read it! I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw but if I remember correctly the Spanish colonized the caribean hence Puerto rico, hispaniola oh and I shouldn't leave out that language they left behind. BTW my gf is white with green eyes and shes Puerto rican, so is she Spanish or Latino I mean she fits your description of Spanish?
> 
> Sorry to the op but that ignorant statement really struck a nerve!


Hmm... I'm not hispanic, latino, or spanish. lol But from what I read in history class.... The Spanish came to the new world (america and islands) And settled mostly in mexico, where the indians were living. They mixed with the indians to get the dark hair and dark eyes and skin characteristic of mexicans, peurto rican's and whatever have you. They were all spanish mixed with indian. Thats it. So a person who is straight from Spain is most certainly European and would be a white skinned person. Now a person who is from mexico, peurto rican or "insert hispanic country of origin here" would have spanish and indian blood in their background. Such as... my family tree is german and native american indian. I am predominantly german with family tree that traces back to my relatives who came here in the 1850's to America... but since I have indian in me too, I have black hair, brown eyes and white skin, with a great tan in the summer time. Viola. Your all mixed with native american indian!


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Shes Got Heart said:


> Hmm... I'm not hispanic, latino, or spanish. lol But from what I read in history class.... The Spanish came to the new world (america and islands) And settled mostly in mexico, where the indians were living. They mixed with the indians to get the dark hair and dark eyes and skin characteristic of mexicans, peurto rican's and whatever have you. They were all spanish mixed with indian. Thats it. So a person who is straight from Spain is most certainly European and would be a white skinned person. Now a person who is from mexico, peurto rican or "insert hispanic country of origin here" would have spanish and indian blood in their background. Such as... my family tree is german and native american indian. I am predominantly german with family tree that traces back to my relatives who came here in the 1850's to America... but since I have indian in me too, I have black hair, brown eyes and white skin, with a great tan in the summer time. Viola. Your all mixed with native american indian!


Totaly If you breed an APBT with a heeler and get puppies and then cross the puppies back to another APBT it is no longer an APBT. That was the point I was trying to make. Once they mixed with Native American's and made a new culture they were no longer Spaniards.


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

kg420 said:


> Totaly If you breed an APBT with a heeler and get puppies and then cross the puppies back to another APBT it is no longer an APBT. That was the point I was trying to make. Once they mixed with Native American's and made a new culture they were no longer Spaniards.


I would completely agree with that. But back on the topic of the dogs! Which I think this thread was more of another crapshoot APBT bully argument to begin with.


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Shes Got Heart said:


> I would completely agree with that. But back on the topic of the dogs! Which I think this thread was more of another crapshoot APBT bully argument to begin with.


I think this thread was intended to stir the pot.


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

kg420 said:


> I think this thread was intended to stir the pot.


Yeah, I had to read the OP again just now. Definitely I think he came here from one of the bully forums to talk trash about how great that breeding was in another thread. It's like... thanks for the info!


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Shes Got Heart said:


> Yeah, I had to read the OP again just now. Definitely I think he came here from one of the bully forums to talk trash about how great that breeding was in another thread. It's like... thanks for the info!


Was that the one with the realy bad feet. I thought that name looked familiar.


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

kg420 said:


> Was that the one with the realy bad feet. I thought that name looked familiar.


Yeah, they looked like english bulldog mixes to me.


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Shes Got Heart said:


> Yeah, they looked like english bulldog mixes to me.


I feel realy bad for those dogs and I don't know why people are prasing him for being cruel. I saw a video on the internet of some one like this that was actually forcing the two dogs together with his hands, if you know what I mean.
People like this shouldn't be allowed to even own a dog.


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

kg420 said:


> I feel realy bad for those dogs and I don't know why people are prasing him for being cruel. I saw a video on the internet of some one like this that was actually forcing the two dogs together with his hands, if you know what I mean.
> People like this shouldn't be allowed to even own a dog.


Ewww thats weird. I just think in about 10 years they won't be able to breed on their own or have their own puppies... same with English bulldog. They will just be man made breed.


----------



## outlaw250 (Dec 11, 2009)

*Interesting discussions!*

"Stir the pot"? I have no idea what your talking about lol. But truth is, alot of Ch out APBT and Amsaff's are now being reintroduced to the American Bullies...then offspring back to the American Bullies to clean up some bad genetic traits....thats a great idea IMO! Cleaning up the bully genetic's, well the bad side anyhow! But again, great discussion everyone! I found it interesting!


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)




----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I tried to rep you for that firehazard, but it said I had to spread the love before repping you again! lol


----------



## gh32 (Dec 22, 2007)

outlaw250 said:


> "Stir the pot"? I have no idea what your talking about lol. But truth is, alot of Ch out APBT and Amsaff's are now being reintroduced to the American Bullies...then offspring back to the American Bullies to clean up some bad genetic traits....thats a great idea IMO! Cleaning up the bully genetic's, well the bad side anyhow! But again, great discussion everyone! I found it interesting!


Why would anyone breed a Ch. APBT to a bully.Could you name one that has?First off,while the next generation of bullies may be better dogs possibly than the last if that was done,here's the way most APBT owners,including myself see it.Instead of improving a bully,it's just down breeding an APBT and contibuting to more bullies,which we don't need IMHO


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Shes Got Heart said:


> I tried to rep you for that firehazard, but it said I had to spread the love before repping you again! lol


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I got your back I'll rep it for you.

Firehazard :goodpost: I can't believe you posted that right when I was about to. Super funny you beat me to it.


----------



## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

gh32 said:


> Why would anyone breed a Ch. APBT to a bully.Could you name one that has?First off,while the next generation of bullies may be better dogs possibly than the last if that was done,here's the way most APBT owners,including myself see it.Instead of improving a bully,it's just down breeding an APBT and contibuting to more bullies,which we don't need IMHO


You can stud out an APBT to a bully to give it better stock, and then stud out that same APBT to another APBT and keep that line of APBT going I don't see how that is down breeding. Looks win win to me. You make the bully better and you make the APBT better. Again that all depends on whether the APBT is of breeding stock, if not it really doesn't matter. IMO


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Ok this is how I fell about the whole bully thing. If a Bully is it's own breed now then we need to stop refering to them as pitbulls. I understand that people use the term pitbull to generalize a group of dogs, but that is wrong and it's exactly why our breed has a bad reputation. There is only one dog that has pitbull in it's name the APBT the only true pitubull. If we refrain from using the word pitbull to describe any dog other then APBT the dog bite numbers would go way down. Also I think it's kinda f ed up that some bully breeder use the name ABPT to try to trick people that don't know better, then jack up the price. I'm sure not all bully breeders do this but when I see some one charging 5-7 grand for a puppy it makes me sick. If I wanted a huge bully sized dog I'd buy another American Bulldog for less then a grand. Seriously people what the logic behind selling a dog for $7000. I am not a bully hater in fact I've seen beautifuly built bullies that were perfect (bullythekid your's is one great example of a perfect bully) but I think we should call them what they are American Bullies, not American pit bull terriers.


----------



## Chavezpits (Aug 26, 2009)

Here is a great article about Dog DNA.

Bulldog or Bichon: Can a Little Dog DNA Solve the Mystery? - WSJ.com

I went to a breeder symposium about two years ago and there was a company talking about Dog DNA.

Basically for Dog Breed DNA to work you need a data base of purebred dogs in order to form a base scale. They were trying to reach out to breed clubs to encourage these bases. Without the bases you basically are wasting your money. (most of these companies DO NOT have a "pitbull base" no "real" way to tell what your dog is)

On the flip side UKC/ADBA where present at this conference and it was not something they were willing to get DNA for, too much conflict-
*start DNA data base for finding out if your dog is a "pitbull"
-not a great idea because of BSL/MSN issues we are already dealing with
-alot of clubs not interested because of this reason

Edited to add!
*Google is a great thing! do some research 1st

* Bully the Kid's dog is NOT a BULLY


----------



## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

*My name is BULLY the Kid but,

COCHISE IS NOTAN AMERICAN BULLY!! LOL!! NOR, IS HE AN AKC AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER LOL

Not to offend my ABKC Am Bully people, AKC AM Staff people, or the ADBA APBT people, but Co is a UKC Grand Champion APBT. Is he your classic ADBA style APBT?, Not exactly. He weighs 55 pounds (weighed two weeks ago for a UKC Weight Pull), and is 18 3/4 inches tall, very balanced and is not overdone, in fact in the show ring Co is normally the smallest male there lol, no mix DNA VIP for the last 4 generations.

Cochise ped PEDIGREE.

Thanks for all the compliments on Cochise! KG420 I know what you mean though.*


----------



## Chavezpits (Aug 26, 2009)

lol you are too funny!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

razors edge is a bully foundation sire.. every one has seen the RE/Gotti monsters that started the craze... Razors Edge is have show half game, anyone who knows this line knows this to be true. Just as the Am Staff uses "pit" stock, opinions vary especially why this is; from the books, dogmen, and pedigrees, I see it as the APBT is the original strain. Inwhich they need to purify the traits they seek from in which they linebreed/linebred to be apart.


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

BullyTheKid said:


> *My name is BULLY the Kid but,
> 
> COCHISE IS NOTAN AMERICAN BULLY!! LOL!! NOR, IS HE AN AKC AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER LOL
> 
> ...


sorry your name tricked me very beautiful dog though.


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

BullyTheKid said:


> *My name is BULLY the Kid but,
> 
> COCHISE IS NOTAN AMERICAN BULLY!! LOL!! NOR, IS HE AN AKC AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER LOL
> 
> ...


Thats a reaalll dawwwg!


----------



## blackb3lt (Nov 3, 2009)

I'm the worst of the worst. I have a blue bully, still UKC registed APBT though. Sometimes I look myself in the mirror and ask myself why I'm trying to undermine and destroy a breed that I love? All joking aside though, I was looking for a slightly bullier pit, nothing like some of the unathletic monsters that you see around now mind you. As far as the blue, it just happened that while shopping around, the breeder that I liked had blues.

I have found this forum generally friendly to me despite that fact though. There is always the occasional elitist, but overall, I like this community.


----------



## gxkon (Jul 13, 2009)

outlaw250 said:


> Some may like them, some may not! But the fact is, long time Amstaff and APBT breeders are incorporating bullies in their programs! BTW, not all bully breeders have no breeding ethics! So please dont take just one persons word for it, go study the breed! I have, and have selectively chosen certain breeders that keep in mind the structural aspects of breeding! But there are some people that shouldnt be breeders at all! I mean, these are the ones breeding structurally messed up, severely deformed dogs...and calling it "fire"! But like I said, there are ethical breeders still around in the "Bully" world! But dont take my word for it, or any "bully" haters...go and see for yourself! You just might like what you see! Peace!


i doubt a reputable apbt or amstaf breeder is incorperateing bullie lines in ther work that sound like a bunch of bs. i have been looking for a reputable bullie breeder for over a year now and u know what i havent found one. not saying there not out there i cant wait to find one but i met and have talked to over 200 and they r all bs. most just do the it for the money i mean 9 grand for a dog is crazy plus none health test most bullies cant pass the hip test most of the people here know alot about the breed hell we know alot of all the breeds that get called pitbulls u have made some good points and i can see a bully breeder incorperating apbt or am staff in there lines but like i said i doubt a reputable apbt or ast breeder would taint there lines with bully lines


----------

