# Pocket Pit Bulls?



## alphamum82

I've heard a lot of talk lately about Pocket Pit Bulls. What exactly is bred with a Pit Bull to make it a pocket pit?


----------



## Indica

alphamum82 said:


> I've heard a lot of talk lately about Pocket Pit Bulls. What exactly is bred with a Pit Bull to make it a pocket pit?


I've seen ads for pocket pits, that also contain the words "massive" and 100+ pounds. I guess as long as the dog is less than 16" tall.

I have seen them crossed with Bostons and PUGS.


----------



## meganc66

there's some people in michigan that breed "pocket pits" they just look like really small pitties.. i looked em up and i couldn't find any other ones but they also didnt have the dogs next to anything small so they just looked average sized in the pictures haha. they are smallllll. well not super small but decently small. i would guess bostons, but pugs? crayzee!! i can't find the website that i saw from before... the dogs were at the Detroit Kennel Club dog show back in february... so i dunno exactly what they called them maybe staffies? i'm not sure, but they were pretty cute!


----------



## pitbulljojo

"Staffies" are the original Am Staff. They are Stafordshire Bull Terriers. They are smaller and more squat than Am staffs. Look at the AKC website - they are an AKC reg breed. They have been around for about 200yrs.We have a APBT - a girl - that is Jeep/Razors edge that is considered small. She weighs about 40pounds and is about 16 inches small. She is also a "Pocket Rocket " . She is as athetic as any other dogs Ive seen. She can jump in the air and back flip. She is also a ball hog. My daughter and I were joking about finding a male her size and breeding pocket pits. Thats was 2 years ago !!!


----------



## MISSAPBT

i just googled it! goodness!!
not my cup of tea


----------



## performanceknls

We call my little game bred bitch a pocket pit. She is only 35lbs. Then I started hearing the term "pocket pit" and found out that they are similar to the picture above. That dog looks horribly deformed in the front legs, people should be ashamed of breeding that.


----------



## TashasLegend

That poor dog probably couldn't run a good city block.... I've always thought "pocket pit" was in little pitties under 35-40lbs. That's what we called Gemyni.


----------



## American_Pit13

A pocket pit depends on who you talk to.. Exactly the same as a pitbull varies from who you are talking to. To some its a short short Bully, to some its a normal pit ( small and light as they should be). To some its a Staffy bull( a Staffordshire Bull Terrier not and AMSTAFF)

Staffy Bull- Sorry I resized pic should be smaller soon lol..


----------



## PeanutsMommy

MISSAPBT said:


> i just googled it! goodness!!
> not my cup of tea


that looks like a pit bull weenie dog :rofl:


----------



## TashasLegend

^^^ hahahahaha...so true!


----------



## alphamum82

Yeah that's not my cup of tea either. I wish people would just stop putting two dogs in a room and calling the outcome designer.


----------



## MISSAPBT

i feel quite sorry for it! it wouldnt be able to prance around like a little mental, it would woddle!
i just googled it so maybe its the wrong "pocket pit", so that mean kyza is a pocket pit, i dont think shell be over 35lb. Hahaha


----------



## meganc66

the ones that i'm thinking of dont look like that at all... to me when i think of the pocket pit i thought of like... for example taking a picture in paint and just making the picture smaller. just like the same but smaller. not the same body and hacked off legs haha


----------



## PeanutsMommy

In MY mind i picture patterdales as the pocket pits but i know they are not.


----------



## Elvisfink

There is only one TRUE Pocket Pit and it's the Boston Terrier! My family has always called their Bostons Pocket Pits. Here's a few photos I shot of my brothers Bostons.


----------



## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se

omg that middle pic is soo cute elvis hahahahahaa


----------



## performanceknls

Bostons I love it!
Then I do have pocket pits!
This is General Mc Nasty 15lbs of pocket pit Boston


----------



## redsky

pocket pits are 16 inches or less and usually seriously inbred. Not my cup of tea but they are not suppose to be crossed with any other breed just inbred then some times they bring to inbred dogs that out cross each other together to continue the smaller size.


----------



## DaddyDiezel

Pocket pits ? lol. Man I got Diezel because i used to have a pocket/toy doberman...not very macho walkin him down the street...very smart dog though, lol. Ill stick with the grande version. (plus, arent pits working dogs? Whats a pocket pit gonna pull besides lint?)


----------



## American_Pit13

DaddyDiezel said:


> (plus, arent pits working dogs? Whats a pocket pit gonna pull besides lint?)


You ever seen a Staffy Bull or Boston doing weight pull? Those little dogs got some heart and strength.. Savage little Pullers.


----------



## TashasLegend

Yes I agree. Here's a post I did for Apbt trivia thread on here awhile back


> *Boston Terrier*. The ABPT and Boston Terrier were both called the "*American Bull Terrier*" at one point.
> 
> A brother breed to the the APBT is the Boston Terrier. The original Boston Terrier is clearly a very close relative of the original APBT. A number of books about the Boston Terrier make the following assertions:
> ~Both breeds were originally about the same size, approximately 35 pounds.
> ~Hopper's "Judge," the founding sire of the BT breed, was identified as a bull-and-terrier cross and was imported around 1865 from England by William O'Brien of Boston,Massachusetts.
> ~Judge, described as"more like a bulldog than a terrier" was dark brindle w/ white markings on his face and a white chest.
> ~Judge had cropped ears, a common surgery performed on pit dogs.
> ~Judge weighed 32 pounds and"...was a well-built and high stationed(tall) dog."
> ~Both breeds clearly demonstratd their bull and terrier heritage.
> ~An early name for the Boston was the "round-headed Bull and Terrier"
> ~Another early name for the Boston was also an early name for the APBT, the "American Bull Terrier"
> ~Both breeds are athletic and packed with power; prominent writers still remark on how much the physiques of the two breeds look alike.
> ~Both were originally bred and then imported to America for the same purpose-to fight in the pits against other dogs.
> ~From bull and terrier stock, imported to the US from Britain, the BT was number one on the AKC's list of most popular breeds in America for many years.
> The American pit bull terrier handbook - Google Book Search
> **All info from above is from The American Pit Bull Terrier Handbook by Joe Stahlkuppe**
> 
> Comparison. Colby's Logan(APBT) and Int.Ch. Oranjelust Royal Showman
> U.S. Import (BT)


----------



## DaddyDiezel

:flush:

guess i was out of pocket(no pun intended) with the pull joke. Sorry if I offended anyone. 

Thanks for the history lesson Tasha


----------



## Hirihat

cool info Tasha.....I had no idea!! Thanks!!!


----------



## American_Pit13

DaddyDiezel said:


> :flush:
> 
> guess i was out of pocket(no pun intended) with the pull joke. Sorry if I offended anyone.
> 
> Thanks for the history lesson Tasha


I don't think you offended any one lol..


----------



## ThaLadyPit

Tasha...thanks for the info... I never studied up on the Boston history...

Holly... I love that half n half face on that Staffy!! Just gorgeous... is it one of yours?


----------



## redsky

i have to agree with Bea Bea that split face is beautiful!


----------



## jsgixxer

thats for the interesting info


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

Tua is a pocket bully... what do ya'll think made him this way? the pedigree isn't inbred on this boy.


----------



## Leon

mmm..tua is pretty damn cute.


----------



## Indica

Tua is a cutie. Definitely more acceptable than the first example!


----------



## performanceknls

Don't reley on a pedigree most AM's papers are hung. Your dog is the best looking small AM I have seen and I would bet English bulldog and APBT.

Yes Bostons pull very well. This is General with 300lbs. He needed a little help but that is 20x his body weight


----------



## maggiesmommie

I just dont see the point. Its sad that these people just keep doing this. I was hanging with a friend and she was talking to this little girl and the little girl said I have a pitbull/chiuawa mix. I was like thats so crazy!


----------



## American_Pit13

ThaLadyPit said:


> Holly... I love that half n half face on that Staffy!! Just gorgeous... is it one of yours?


No but I love Joker to death! He is one hell of a little puller and we have a pup coming out of him. He just got his GRCH . He is out my my landlords CH male and Fitz Pits Kennels who are good friends of mine. This Pup thats coming will be our first Staffy!!!

Also have to butt in that TUA is awesome! One hell of a little Bully.


----------



## FloorCandy

performanceknls said:


> Don't reley on a pedigree most AM's papers are hung. Your dog is the best looking small AM I have seen and I would bet English bulldog and APBT.
> 
> Yes Bostons pull very well. This is General with 300lbs. He needed a little help but that is 20x his body weight


I love General McNasty! he's so tiny, I thought my pug was small at 19lbs, but he is just so cute and little! Raisin is about the same size, very lean as well, I think the tail must be where she keeps the extra weight lol.


----------



## ThaLadyPit

american_pit13 said:


> No but I love Joker to death! He is one hell of a little puller and we have a pup coming out of him. He just got his GRCH . He is out my my landlords CH male and Fitz Pits Kennels who are good friends of mine. This Pup thats coming will be our first Staffy!!!
> 
> Also have to butt in that TUA is awesome! One hell of a little Bully.


WOW! I had actually considered getting a staffy one time when I was still in Ga... but I could never get in touch with the breeder I was referred to... so I figured it wasn't for me at the time and left it alone! You gotta show me pix when you get your pup!! Joker is one handsome fella! I bet he's got a helluva personality to boot too, huh?!?

Yep... I agree.. Tua is a gorgeous little Bully. I've said it before and will say it again, I'm not much of a fan of the bullies... but I can appreciate a well bred, well built dog, and have no problem saying so!!


----------



## American_Pit13

ThaLadyPit said:


> WOW! I had actually considered getting a staffy one time when I was still in Ga... but I could never get in touch with the breeder I was referred to... so I figured it wasn't for me at the time and left it alone! You gotta show me pix when you get your pup!! Joker is one handsome fella! I bet he's got a helluva personality to boot too, huh?!?


Oh they are so great! They really are little pitbulls lmao! The breeding is going down this year and BELIVE ME! I will have daily pictures lol.. I am so exited about getting a staffy.


----------



## TashasLegend

Tua is handsome!! And looks to be a correct bully imo.


----------



## Atheist

These dogs are everything a pitbull is not. They are dogs bred for a physical mutation and not the same athletic dogs of great speed, quickness, power, bite, stamina and heart that is what makes what is considered a "real" pitbull. Call them pocket bully mixes or whatever you like, and frankly I think some of them are fun looking cool dogs, but to me these dogs are just back yard breeding experiments by people with a sales gimmick. I guess this is why people come up to me and ask what kind of pitbull do I have. To me there is just one kind of pitbull, and short of a documented game bred dog, everything else is a decendent, mut or entirely new breed. 

I could certainly enjoy a nice dog that has a good look even if it wasn't a quote a pure gamebred pit. The fact that it causes such heated discussion among pitbull officianados, is part of the trouble with recognizing a pure bred strain of pitbull. Pitbulls were game bred and if you outlaw dogfighting, there is no legal way to breed real gamebred pits. What you wind up with is Am Staffs. Eventually they are just distant decendants from a group of old time fighting dogs. In theory this is why people feel they can call any cross bully breed a pitbull. In essence without testing the dogs who can prove them wrong.

If someone asks me what kind of dog I have (you can see his photo and judge for yourself), I think the real and truthfull answer is I don't know. Papers are something that are basically purchased or come from some profit based organization with a registry and agenda. Most pitbulls have not come from selective gamebred stock for generations. Is he AMSTAFF, APBT, AB, ST, who knows and frankly who cares as I don't intend to fight him. If I did fight him, regardless of his backround if he were to win a bunch of matches and proved game, he would be considered great pitbull breeding stock regardless of ancestry, and if he could not scratch like a champ he would be considered a cur even if he came from the best fighting dogs in history and never be bred by those who practice game breeding which is the entire basis for a true pitbull. Sure pits are generally superior to most dogs in ability and gameness no matter how far removed from actual game tested stock, but in the real game dog world only a few pits stand out as exceptionaly game among other pits. 

There is a serious argument that makes sense and that is this: If dogfighting is outlawed the only true pit bull breeders are criminals. 

Now you can call anything that remotely resembles a pitbull a pitbull, which is exactly why we have POCKET PITS, Rare BLUE PITS etc. It is illegal to breed real pitbulls. I have heard the argument that weight pull competitions are a substitue for fighting as a test of gameness, but I disagree. Breeding weight pull champions, just creates a new breed of weight pulling dogs. Just like in humans, being a champion weight lifter in the gym has little to do with fighting ability which is a totally different combination of skill sets. I seriously doubt the best APBT weight pull champ would be any match for a "Going Light Barney" who probably wouldn't pull all that well. No matter how hard you try, real fighters are made in the ring not at birth or in the gym. I do not believe in dog fighting but as it relates to pitbulls, sad as it is to say the breed has effectively been doomed to extinction because without the fighting, the breed becomes what Akitas, Am Staffs, AM Bullys, Boston Terriers and "Pocket Pits" are, and that is dogs bred for a physical standard which descended from a bloodline, and not performance. 

There were great pitbulls that resembled these Pocket Pits, low, stocky, powerful and very game, and there were also great pits which were tall and lean who won with quickness and smarts. In the end if fighting is not involved, a cool dog is a cool dog, and if fighting is involved, one of these Pocket Pits could prove to be a superior champ and very game or a cur.


----------



## Indica

Atheist said:


> These dogs are everything a pitbull is not. They are dogs bred for a physical mutation and not the same athletic dogs of great speed, quickness, power, bite, stamina and heart that is what makes what is considered a "real" pitbull. Call them pocket bully mixes or whatever you like, and frankly I think some of them are fun looking cool dogs, but to me these dogs are just back yard breeding experiments by people with a sales gimmick. I guess this is why people come up to me and ask what kind of pitbull do I have. To me there is just one kind of pitbull, and short of a documented game bred dog, everything else is a decendent, mut or entirely new breed.
> 
> I could certainly enjoy a nice dog that has a good look even if it wasn't a quote a pure gamebred pit. The fact that it causes such heated discussion among pitbull officianados, is part of the trouble with recognizing a pure bred strain of pitbull. Pitbulls were game bred and if you outlaw dogfighting, there is no legal way to breed real gamebred pits. What you wind up with is Am Staffs. Eventually they are just distant decendants from a group of old time fighting dogs. In theory this is why people feel they can call any cross bully breed a pitbull. In essence without testing the dogs who can prove them wrong.
> 
> If someone asks me what kind of dog I have (you can see his photo and judge for yourself), I think the real and truthfull answer is I don't know. Papers are something that are basically purchased or come from some profit based organization with a registry and agenda. Most pitbulls have not come from selective gamebred stock for generations. Is he AMSTAFF, APBT, AB, ST, who knows and frankly who cares as I don't intend to fight him. If I did fight him, regardless of his backround if he were to win a bunch of matches and proved game, he would be considered great pitbull breeding stock regardless of ancestry, and if he could not scratch like a champ he would be considered a cur even if he came from the best fighting dogs in history and never be bred by those who practice game breeding which is the entire basis for a true pitbull. Sure pits are generally superior to most dogs in ability and gameness no matter how far removed from actual game tested stock, but in the real game dog world only a few pits stand out as exceptionaly game among other pits.
> 
> There is a serious argument that makes sense and that is this: If dogfighting is outlawed the only true pit bull breeders are criminals.
> 
> Now you can call anything that remotely resembles a pitbull a pitbull, which is exactly why we have POCKET PITS, Rare BLUE PITS etc. It is illegal to breed real pitbulls. I have heard the argument that weight pull competitions are a substitue for fighting as a test of gameness, but I disagree. Breeding weight pull champions, just creates a new breed of weight pulling dogs. Just like in humans, being a champion weight lifter in the gym has little to do with fighting ability which is a totally different combination of skill sets. I seriously the best APBT weight pull champ would be any match for a "Going Light Barney" who probably wouldn't pull all that well. No matter how hard you try, real fighters are made in the ring not at birth or in the gym. I do not believe in dog fighting but as it relates to pitbulls, sad as it is to say the breed has effectively been doomed to extinction because without the fighting, the breed becomes what Akitas, Am Staffs, AM Bullys, Boston Terriers and "Pocket Pits" are, and that is dogs bred for a physical standard which descended from a bloodline, and not performance.
> 
> There were great pitbulls that resembled these Pocket Pits, low, stocky, powerful and very game, and there were also great pits which were tall and lean who won with quickness and smarts. In the end if fighting is not involved, a cool dog is a cool dog, and if fighting is involved, one of these Pocket Pits could prove to be a superior champ and very game or a cur.


You friggin' nailed it!


----------



## dan'sgrizz

how do i put pockets on my pit?! thatd be the real trick... they could carry loose change and also carry there own cigarettes... im tired of carrying around the boys smokes now that i dont. PIT BULL POCKETS!!! anyone know a bloodline that has pockets?! thatd be great.... possibly pockets cargo pockets and rear pockets a chest pocket isnt necessary buyt would be nice. ANYONE KNOW OF THESE POCKET PITS?!


----------



## maggiesmommie

Grizz you crack me up!


----------



## Rock Creek Kennels

I dont believe that a "pocket pit" has much to do with height, but overall size. (you can fit them in your pocket) All the "pocket pits" that i've seen and pulled with over the years, actually have fair confirmation, but are never over 30 lbs. I've seen them as low as 16 lbs. The ones I know will pull a house down and usually take home the body lb. trophies. I know a guy in NC that has one that pulled over 300x his body weight.

The line of these that i'm most familiar with are the "Will he make it" line. A friend of mine here raises & pulls these.


----------



## APBTMOMMY

I grew up with a boston bull terroir there great little dogs. She was black and white. My uncle has about 4 of them. I think that they are cute little dogs. I wouldnt own one now but they are nice dogs.


----------



## CUTDOWNSKENNELS

NOT SURE !!! BUT I LIKE THE HUGE PITBULLS


----------



## cmartinp28

staffordshire bull terrier


----------



## SassyMiss

MISSAPBT said:


> i just googled it! goodness!!
> not my cup of tea



shame man! that is an ugly dog - how can people DO that to this breed, to ANy breed!


----------



## Black Dog Coalition

I am just learning about "pockets" didn't know they'd been around that long... My males name is Magnus, he's 3/4 Razors Edge and 1/4 Supreme Greyline... My Females name is Nessa, She's 3/4 Razors Edge and 1/4 Remyline... 

I would love to learn as much as I can...


----------



## SuthernStyles

American_Pit13 said:


> A pocket pit depends on who you talk to.. Exactly the same as a pitbull varies from who you are talking to. To some its a short short Bully, to some its a normal pit ( small and light as they should be). To some its a Staffy bull( a Staffordshire Bull Terrier not and AMSTAFF)
> 
> Staffy Bull- Sorry I resized pic should be smaller soon lol..


Love that face marking


----------



## NickyZ

Atheist said:


> These dogs are everything a pitbull is not. They are dogs bred for a physical mutation and not the same athletic dogs of great speed, quickness, power, bite, stamina and heart that is what makes what is considered a "real" pitbull. Call them pocket bully mixes or whatever you like, and frankly I think some of them are fun looking cool dogs, but to me these dogs are just back yard breeding experiments by people with a sales gimmick. I guess this is why people come up to me and ask what kind of pitbull do I have. To me there is just one kind of pitbull, and short of a documented game bred dog, everything else is a decendent, mut or entirely new breed.
> 
> I could certainly enjoy a nice dog that has a good look even if it wasn't a quote a pure gamebred pit. The fact that it causes such heated discussion among pitbull officianados, is part of the trouble with recognizing a pure bred strain of pitbull. Pitbulls were game bred and if you outlaw dogfighting, there is no legal way to breed real gamebred pits. What you wind up with is Am Staffs. Eventually they are just distant decendants from a group of old time fighting dogs. In theory this is why people feel they can call any cross bully breed a pitbull. In essence without testing the dogs who can prove them wrong.
> 
> If someone asks me what kind of dog I have (you can see his photo and judge for yourself), I think the real and truthfull answer is I don't know. Papers are something that are basically purchased or come from some profit based organization with a registry and agenda. Most pitbulls have not come from selective gamebred stock for generations. Is he AMSTAFF, APBT, AB, ST, who knows and frankly who cares as I don't intend to fight him. If I did fight him, regardless of his backround if he were to win a bunch of matches and proved game, he would be considered great pitbull breeding stock regardless of ancestry, and if he could not scratch like a champ he would be considered a cur even if he came from the best fighting dogs in history and never be bred by those who practice game breeding which is the entire basis for a true pitbull. Sure pits are generally superior to most dogs in ability and gameness no matter how far removed from actual game tested stock, but in the real game dog world only a few pits stand out as exceptionaly game among other pits.
> 
> There is a serious argument that makes sense and that is this: If dogfighting is outlawed the only true pit bull breeders are criminals.
> 
> Now you can call anything that remotely resembles a pitbull a pitbull, which is exactly why we have POCKET PITS, Rare BLUE PITS etc. It is illegal to breed real pitbulls. I have heard the argument that weight pull competitions are a substitue for fighting as a test of gameness, but I disagree. Breeding weight pull champions, just creates a new breed of weight pulling dogs. Just like in humans, being a champion weight lifter in the gym has little to do with fighting ability which is a totally different combination of skill sets. I seriously doubt the best APBT weight pull champ would be any match for a "Going Light Barney" who probably wouldn't pull all that well. No matter how hard you try, real fighters are made in the ring not at birth or in the gym. I do not believe in dog fighting but as it relates to pitbulls, sad as it is to say the breed has effectively been doomed to extinction because without the fighting, the breed becomes what Akitas, Am Staffs, AM Bullys, Boston Terriers and "Pocket Pits" are, and that is dogs bred for a physical standard which descended from a bloodline, and not performance.
> 
> There were great pitbulls that resembled these Pocket Pits, low, stocky, powerful and very game, and there were also great pits which were tall and lean who won with quickness and smarts. In the end if fighting is not involved, a cool dog is a cool dog, and if fighting is involved, one of these Pocket Pits could prove to be a superior champ and very game or a cur.


BEST THING I'VE EVER READ HERE! all i hear is about "true pits" and game this and game that when dogfighting is illegal so therefore if you are doing these things you shouldnt be talking about it and if your not doing these things then why do you care if your dog is game or not...I see alot of pet owners worshipping these old dogfighters and the past, personally I'd love to get locked in a room with anyone who fights dogs and see who comes out


----------



## American_Pit13

NickyZ said:


> BEST THING I'VE EVER READ HERE! all i hear is about "true pits" and game this and game that when dogfighting is illegal so therefore if you are doing these things you shouldnt be talking about it and if your not doing these things then why do you care if your dog is game or not...I see alot of pet owners worshipping these old dogfighters and the past, personally I'd love to get locked in a room with anyone who fights dogs and see who comes out


Its so sad to see someone who has no respect of where this breed came from and what made it the magnificent breed it is. Also Dog Fighting is illegal in the US. There are many areas were it is not illegal.

It has nothing to do with worship its about understanding your breed as a whole and how this breed became what it is, not just taking what you want from it and denying how this breed was created. Dog Fighting MADE this breed. To ignore the breeds history is asking for trouble.


----------



## Sadie

NickyZ said:


> BEST THING I'VE EVER READ HERE! all i hear is about "true pits" and game this and game that when dogfighting is illegal so therefore if you are doing these things you shouldnt be talking about it and if your not doing these things then why do you care if your dog is game or not...I see alot of pet owners worshipping these old dogfighters and the past, personally I'd love to get locked in a room with anyone who fights dogs and see who comes out


I don't think those of us who own game bred dogs or APBT's worship dog men. Rather we respect their legacy and the fact that without them we wouldn't have our dogs. There is a big difference. I am not ashamed of my dogs history and never will be regardless of their ugly past. My dog's were bred for fighting you can never take the fight out of them and I wouldn't want to anyway. Usually people with your extreme hate for the history of these dogs and the men behind them don't even understand the breed to begin with if you did you couldn't possibly make those comments. You are sadly misinformed you should be grateful for those old dog men because without them you wouldn't have the dog's you have now and claim to love so much.


----------



## NickyZ

you both definitely missed my point...I love to read and learn about the history of these dogs and I know that without the past, they would not even exist today, but to even think about fighting dogs just irritates me and it sometimes gets to me that I see comments almost glorifying it, there is nothing alright about it whether it is legal or not. I come here and get info I need to keep my dog healthy and I do everything I can to keep him well trained, he doesn't do well with other dogs and I know that and he is always secure and never going to have a problem with other dogs because I keep him out of those situations. I am a responsible owner and thats what you should be happy about not saying it is sad to see someone like me just because I think that fighting dogs in this day and age is awful.


----------



## ames

I know where my dogs history came from, but thankful or grateful to them i am not. I recognize their history so I can be a responsible owner and know what I can and can
Not do. I'm not going to be thankful my fore fathers brought slaves to this country. I think that's a horrible part of my countries history, like Dog fighting is and should never be forgotten or and never stopped being talked. people need to be reminded how stupid and ignorant people can be when they lack information or common sense. I'm not going to pretend it's a good history.

Dog breeds, to me, appear to just start up, it's like each one only differed from 4 chromosomes or something. One day it's a mutt and the next a labadoodle or labrabull or Pocket dog and fetching thousands of dollars for the "rare" breed. I don't think that's very reassuring either. (I also know it's wayyyyy more involved and I know it's not easy thing)

I also know my dog rocks and maybe if game men back in the day didn't start to develop and breed them someone else may have further on for another reason. Who knows. Being grateful for dog fighters developing my dogs breed, no way. And the way I understand it I have an amstaff and those were made to be show dogs and not fought. So yeah the history is there and I am fully aware and have a "respect" for it so I can be a responsible owner. Not being ashamed of their history has nothing to do with being thankful to old dog fighters or thinking I owe them anything for my awesome pup. I feel he would have been here no matter what. Just like my boyfriend who's ancestors were forced over here a couple hundred years ago. If we were meant to be we are meant to be. The past is just to learn what to do and not to do again.


----------



## NickyZ

good post ames...that is all that I was trying to say I just get a little carried away I have kindve a short fuse and I rant a little lol...I respect where my dog came from and what he is capable of which is why I keep him contained and supervised during playtime, I keep him away from strange animals and I work hard to train him well and work with a trainer so that he can be a great example for the breed and not a statistic. I believe that makes me a responsible owner. I do not respect dogfighters or dogfighting at all but I do believe that it is important for anyone to learn about especially people who own any form of apbt because that is where our dogs originated. I am not some crybaby who wants to pretend my dog is a golden retreiver and take him to dogparks, I know that is not the case, I do all I can to be the most responsible owner that I can be for my boy as he is all I have and has made my life alot better since I've had him thats all, and this site has helped me alot so I thank all of you for that...sorry about the long post lol I just dont feel like being ripped apart on here for my bad way of explaining things


----------



## ames

I understood what u meant NickyZ. Keep doing at your doing. loving and respecting the breed doesn't mean u need to respect dog fighting IMO.


----------



## pitbullmamanatl

I have the utmost respect for the HISTORY of dog fighting and the dog men who gave me the dog I own today. Holy thread resurrection Batman.


----------



## junkyard

This debate is older than dirt.


----------



## Neko

So I like it that most of you guys only focused on the dog fighting history of the breed. But they were also used for baiting & fighting bulls & bears. One baiting was made illegal they would toss them in a pit full of rats to see which dog could kill the most in a set time. Or also before that, if you want to get into the antiquity of the breed, they were used in warfare. *shrugz* 

But in reference to the "pocket pit" question. I don't think that they were mixed with another breed. All breeds, no matter which one, will produce some bigger or smaller than whats considered normal for the breed. They've probably just taken the naturally small & squatty & bred them together to keep getting small, short & stocky pups. People just give them different names to see how much more $$ they can get out of you, ie: "King" or "Pocket".

People call my pittie a "Pocket" b/c she's very short, 16" @ 40 lbs. She's pure APBT & her parents are definitely taller that she it as are most of her litter mates. She & I think one other just came out naturally short. =)


----------



## FrostFell

Neko said:


> So I like it that most of you guys only focused on the dog fighting history of the breed. But they were also used for baiting & fighting bulls & bears. One baiting was made illegal they would toss them in a pit full of rats to see which dog could kill the most in a set time. Or also before that, if you want to get into the antiquity of the breed, they were used in warfare. *shrugz*
> 
> But in reference to the "pocket pit" question. I don't think that they were mixed with another breed. All breeds, no matter which one, will produce some bigger or smaller than whats considered normal for the breed. They've probably just taken the naturally small & squatty & bred them together to keep getting small, short & stocky pups. People just give them different names to see how much more $$ they can get out of you, ie: "King" or "Pocket".
> 
> People call my pittie a "Pocket" b/c she's very short, 16" @ 40 lbs. She's pure APBT & her parents are definitely taller that she it as are most of her litter mates. She & I think one other just came out naturally short. =)


I have one of those! My little girl came out 15" and about 55 lbs, but all her ped and offspring are at minimum 2" taller than her. I got a lil'un! <3 Shes portable size <3


----------



## KMdogs

Neko said:


> So I like it that most of you guys only focused on the dog fighting history of the breed. But they were also used for baiting & fighting bulls & bears. One baiting was made illegal they would toss them in a pit full of rats to see which dog could kill the most in a set time. Or also before that, if you want to get into the antiquity of the breed, they were used in warfare. *shrugz*
> 
> But in reference to the "pocket pit" question. I don't think that they were mixed with another breed. All breeds, no matter which one, will produce some bigger or smaller than whats considered normal for the breed. They've probably just taken the naturally small & squatty & bred them together to keep getting small, short & stocky pups. People just give them different names to see how much more $$ they can get out of you, ie: "King" or "Pocket".
> 
> People call my pittie a "Pocket" b/c she's very short, 16" @ 40 lbs. She's pure APBT & her parents are definitely taller that she it as are most of her litter mates. She & I think one other just came out naturally short. =)


I'll save the rest of my comments for later, what bloodline is your pup?


----------



## Sadie

Neko said:


> So I like it that most of you guys only focused on the dog fighting history of the breed. But they were also used for baiting & fighting bulls & bears. One baiting was made illegal they would toss them in a pit full of rats to see which dog could kill the most in a set time. Or also before that, if you want to get into the antiquity of the breed, they were used in warfare. *shrugz*
> 
> But in reference to the "pocket pit" question. I don't think that they were mixed with another breed. All breeds, no matter which one, will produce some bigger or smaller than whats considered normal for the breed. They've probably just taken the naturally small & squatty & bred them together to keep getting small, short & stocky pups. People just give them different names to see how much more $$ they can get out of you, ie: "King" or "Pocket".
> 
> People call my pittie a "Pocket" b/c she's very short, 16" @ 40 lbs. She's pure APBT & her parents are definitely taller that she it as are most of her litter mates. She & I think one other just came out naturally short. =)


They are working dog's so they are used for a lot of things. That doesn't change their sole purpose which is pit fighting...


----------



## Neko

KMdogs said:


> I'll save the rest of my comments for later, what bloodline is your pup?


Good question, I'll have to check her papers & get back to you on that one. 

Oh, I was looking for your RE thread but can't find it. Got a link?


----------



## KMdogs

Neko said:


> Good question, I'll have to check her papers & get back to you on that one.
> 
> Oh, I was looking for your RE thread but can't find it. Got a link?


I guess the RE wasnt for me since i dont have a RE thread. lol

I will just say the APBT was perfected as a breed with the [] in mind, there were other working aspects for the breed not a single one other than the already mentioned shaped and set the tone for the breed.


----------



## dixieland

Were you just looking for any and all RE threads?There's ton of knowledge about them in here Bullies 101 - Pitbulls : Go Pitbull Dog Forums


----------



## 00 S/C Lightning

I think bullies have way too many classifications for where they can fall to give them some place to fit in(imho). If a pocket pit is less than 16" and bostons are still concidered boston pitbull terriers as well as staffy bull terriers i own both. Can post pics of both if need be


----------



## apbtproud

I think i have the original "Pocket Pit" and he's correct!!


----------



## dixieland

:rofl: That is too cute!


----------



## 00 S/C Lightning

apbtproud said:


> I think i have the original "Pocket Pit" and he's correct!!


Game, set and match you win


----------



## _Savannah_

haha this is what I found when I googled it. This thing is so cute I just want to squeeze it.


----------



## motocross308

_Savannah_ said:


> haha this is what I found when I googled it. This thing is so cute I just want to squeeze it.
> View attachment 9971


ugh poor dog.


----------



## CaLi 2 B.C.

00 S/C Lightning said:


> I think bullies have way too many classifications for where they can fall to give them some place to fit in(imho). If a pocket pit is less than 16" and bostons are still concidered boston pitbull terriers as well as staffy bull terriers i own both. Can post pics of both if need be


 Its just based off height not that huge of a span really.16" and under is pocket for females.17" and under for males.Standard class is 16"-19" for females.17"-20" for males. XL class is 19"+ for females 20"+ for males.Not really a huge difference.Ive seen a 28 lb APBT that was maybee 13-14" tall and is actually a 2x National WP CH.Im sure there is smaller out there.So APBT's have a big size range also and if you think about it like this it may make more sense: When dogs were matched generally they were the same weight/size,when you compete in WP the classes are determined by weight,Only in conformation (ADBA/UKC) do all sizes compete.I like the fact ABKC has these classes.How could you show a 15",55 pound pocket vs a 22" 120 pound XL LOL


----------



## CaLi 2 B.C.

motocross308 said:


> ugh poor dog.


Im curious what you think is wrong with that puppy?


----------



## FrostFell

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> Im curious what you think is wrong with that puppy?


The puppy IS adorable. Ill admit, I SQUEEEEEEE'd when I first saw the pic, and then my "critical eye" kicked in and I felt sorry for it.

He, or she, is not built very well, and is very very overweight to boot, which will aggravate the already poor structure by stressing and breaking down those poor little joints and tendons. Hes a cutie patootie, but will be a fat swaybacked half crippled wreck in about a years time. Poor baby!


----------



## _Savannah_

call me crazy, but I dont think he is that over weight? He just looks like a healthy little puppy to me... and so very adorable!


----------



## 00 S/C Lightning

cmartinp28 said:


> staffordshire bull terrier


Thats what i call a pocket pit one of the first types of pit dogs. He is put together well


----------



## 00 S/C Lightning

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> Its just based off height not that huge of a span really.16" and under is pocket for females.17" and under for males.Standard class is 16"-19" for females.17"-20" for males. XL class is 19"+ for females 20"+ for males.Not really a huge difference.Ive seen a 28 lb APBT that was maybee 13-14" tall and is actually a 2x National WP CH.Im sure there is smaller out there.So APBT's have a big size range also and if you think about it like this it may make more sense: When dogs were matched generally they were the same weight/size,when you compete in WP the classes are determined by weight,Only in conformation (ADBA/UKC) do all sizes compete.I like the fact ABKC has these classes.How could you show a 15",55 pound pocket vs a 22" 120 pound XL LOL


Thats a huge span. Apbt are what 30-60lbs with a consistant height. There is what at least 4 categories for a am bully. The most appealing to me is the classic by far. Dont get me wrong i dont know crap about bullies so dont think i am comming off as a jack ...


----------



## fishinrob

That's my big problem with the bully's is that the smaal ones are mixed with English Bulldogs, Boston Bulls, and the larger ones are mixed with Corso, Mastiff, Am Bulldog types so they aren't even the same mixes. How can they be the same breed?


----------



## CaLi 2 B.C.

00 S/C Lightning said:


> Thats a huge span. Apbt are what 30-60lbs with a consistant height. There is what at least 4 categories for a am bully. The most appealing to me is the classic by far. Dont get me wrong i dont know crap about bullies so dont think i am comming off as a jack ...


30-60 with "consistant height" LOL Consistantly between not much less a margin than the ABKC classes.APBT's have quite a bit of range in height also.If you dont agree with the ABKC having different classes i can understand that,its your opinion.But to act like the apbt doesnt range in height is a load.Also Classic and standard bullys are in the same height class so there is 3 different classes in regard to height,5 classes total.


----------



## CaLi 2 B.C.

fishinrob said:


> That's my big problem with the bully's is that the smaal ones are mixed with English Bulldogs, Boston Bulls, and the larger ones are mixed with Corso, Mastiff, Am Bulldog types so they aren't even the same mixes. How can they be the same breed?


Before i say anything else i have one question.Are you implying that ALL POCKET and XL bullys are mixed?


----------



## FrostFell

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> Before i say anything else i have one question.Are you implying that ALL POCKET and XL bullys are mixed?


Before I say anything else, I think he is.

Not ALL American Bullies are mixed with other breeds. Most are straight up selectively bred AST. A few breeders have cheated, and we all know who they are, even if nobody says anything.

Not all pockets are boston mixes and not all XLs are bandogges.


----------



## FrostFell

fishinrob said:


> That's my big problem with the bully's is that the smaal ones are mixed with English Bulldogs, Boston Bulls, and the larger ones are mixed with Corso, Mastiff, Am Bulldog types so they aren't even the same mixes. How can they be the same breed?


*ahem*

*points to the Schnauzer. And the American Eskimo.*

*then points to the Dachshund*

Some breeds had one original size, and other breeds were mixed in to great other size varieties.

Other breeds had one original size, and genetic variation allowed smaller and larger to eventually become a consistant genetic type all its own.

Id like to know why pocket, standard, and XL are unacceptable byb terms when miniature, standard, and giant, are not? Same thing.


----------



## 9361

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> Im curious what you think is wrong with that puppy?


How come anytime someone doesn't find an Ambully type dog attractive you put in your two cents? Everyone has their own opinion.... Just get tired of you always trying to convince people to like what you like....

In my very humble opinion the dog is ugly, plain and simple. I can list a number of other breeds I also find un attractive if it makes you feel better..


----------



## CaLi 2 B.C.

FrostFell said:


> Before I say anything else, I think he is.
> 
> Not ALL American Bullies are mixed with other breeds. Most are straight up selectively bred AST. A few breeders have cheated, and we all know who they are, even if nobody says anything.
> 
> Not all pockets are boston mixes and not all XLs are bandogges.


I honestly wasnt talking to you in specific.I quoted who i was talking too.I happen to own 6 American bullys all registered and have done my homework on their bloodlines.I hope i dont sound rude, i do agree with your response here. In regards to that pup i dont think hes CH material,not a bad dog,he is obese but i dont think hes mixed judging by that pic.I just like to hear others opinions on why they think what they do.


----------



## CaLi 2 B.C.

Shes Got Heart said:


> How come anytime someone doesn't find an Ambully type dog attractive you put in your two cents? Everyone has their own opinion.... Just get tired of you always trying to convince people to like what you like....
> 
> In my very humble opinion the dog is ugly, plain and simple. I can list a number of other breeds I also find un attractive if it makes you feel better..


Can i not ask a question? I wasnt even talking to you,i dont think ive ever said a word to you.I wasnt trying to convince anybody anything i asked a opinion of somebody.Really though you are tired of what i have to say dont read it,i scroll right past you all the time 
:rofl:


----------



## aus_staffy

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> I honestly wasnt talking to you in specific.I quoted who i was talking too.I happen to own 6 American bullys all registered and have done my homework on their bloodlines.I hope i dont sound rude, i do agree with your response here. In regards to that pup i dont think hes CH material,not a bad dog,he is obese but i dont think hes mixed judging by that pic.I just like to hear others opinions on why they think what they do.


I think Frostfell was agreeing with you in that post, mate, not arguing with you. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## dixieland

No I believe you're right Aus Staffy


----------



## FrostFell

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> I honestly wasnt talking to you in specific.I quoted who i was talking too.I happen to own 6 American bullys all registered and have done my homework on their bloodlines.I hope i dont sound rude, i do agree with your response here. In regards to that pup i dont think hes CH material,not a bad dog,he is obese but i dont think hes mixed judging by that pic.I just like to hear others opinions on why they think what they do.


Talking to me or not, I replied :rofl:

No one, NO ONE, has said that puppy was mixed. No one doubts that hes purebred, just a really poorly bred BYB specimen.....


----------



## CaLi 2 B.C.

aus_staffy said:


> I think Frostfell was agreeing with you in that post, mate, not arguing with you. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.


I hate how much stuff gets misinterpreted online I know im as guilty of it as anybody but It gets even more confusing when other people answer questions not directed at them.No offence Frostfell (BTW I love that girl of yours!)This happens all the time on every forum im a part of...i want to make it clear im not trying to be a prick so if it is taken that way i really am truely sorry.


----------



## fishinrob

I believe less than 50% of the true 100lb dogs are all AST blood and the 120lb and up ones are all Bandogges. Most of the pockets I've seen look like English Bulldog mixes to me. I've only seen a few in person and they were rocking alot of Bulldog traits. When the money started flowing lots of cheating went on. Your dog in your pic looks like a Heavier Amstaff to me and that's how the original bully's looked.


----------



## CaLi 2 B.C.

fishinrob said:


> I believe less than 50% of the true 100lb dogs are all AST blood and the 120lb and up ones are all Bandogges. Most of the pockets I've seen look like English Bulldog mixes to me. I've only seen a few in person and they were rocking alot of Bulldog traits. When the money started flowing lots of cheating went on. Your dog in your pic looks like a Heavier Amstaff to me and that's how the original bully's looked.


For the most part i agree with the above.Who's dog are you referring too?


----------



## FrostFell

fishinrob said:


> I believe less than 50% of the true 100lb dogs are all AST blood and the 120lb and up ones are all Bandogges. Most of the pockets I've seen look like English Bulldog mixes to me. I've only seen a few in person and they were rocking alot of Bulldog traits. When the money started flowing lots of cheating went on. Your dog in your pic looks like a Heavier Amstaff to me and that's how the original bully's looked.


I can show you dozens of pockets and XLs that don't look bulldog or bandogge. Will it change your mind?


----------



## 9361

FrostFell said:


> I can show you dozens of pockets and XLs that don't look bulldog or bandogge. Will it change your mind?


Please do.


----------



## fishinrob

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> For the most part i agree with the above.Who's dog are you referring too?


Your avatar.


----------



## Xiahko

I call Beia a pocket pit,cause she's so tiny,and only like 30lbs.










Beia is the bigger one. Both these pups are like 3 months old,Beia is 10months,and they're almost her size. LOL


----------



## _Savannah_

I have a puppy that was malnourished as a puppy, He weighs 30 pounds also. He is my pocket pit! haha


----------



## Nizmo

American_Pit13 said:


> A pocket pit depends on who you talk to.. Exactly the same as a pitbull varies from who you are talking to. To some its a short short Bully, to some its a normal pit ( small and light as they should be). To some its a Staffy bull( a Staffordshire Bull Terrier not and AMSTAFF)
> 
> Staffy Bull- Sorry I resized pic should be smaller soon lol..


i love me a staffy bull. :woof:


----------



## FrostFell

Shes Got Heart said:


> Please do.


Fugly Dog of the Day: The Good

Also, please keep in mind something that soooo many people seem to forget-- Easty westy, high rears, kink tails, out at the elbows, etc are all signs of a poorly structured dog and you are tempted to scream "BULLGOD MIXED" because yeah... bulldogs have those too... but in reality, it may also just be godawful breeding practices.

Grotesque faults =/= definitive proof of mixing

Just sayin


----------



## Xiahko

_Savannah_ said:


> I have a puppy that was malnourished as a puppy, He weighs 30 pounds also. He is my pocket pit! haha


Are you implying my dog is underweight? Cause I've had her since she was little,and believe me,she was fed.


----------



## 9361

Katie Beia is fine, go to the ADBA shows you will see dogs her size all day long, it is the true size of the apbt.


----------



## ames

Katie I think she was saying her dog is 30lbs also, not that beia is malnourished like her pup was


----------



## Xiahko

Oh,ok. I was gonna say. Beia is in no way underweight. She never was. She was hella blaoted with worms when I got her though,and dehydrated also.


----------



## dixieland

FrostFell said:


> Fugly Dog of the Day: The Good
> 
> Also, please keep in mind something that soooo many people seem to forget-- Easty westy, high rears, kink tails, out at the elbows, etc are all signs of a poorly structured dog and you are tempted to scream "BULLGOD MIXED" because yeah... bulldogs have those too... but in reality, it may also just be godawful breeding practices.
> 
> Grotesque faults =/= definitive proof of mixing
> 
> Just sayin


I think when alot of people tend to scream bulldog mixed,or at least when I do,is when their face looks like an EB.They have short little bodies like an EB and then their face looks very similar too.I don't even look at their faults when screaming it.


----------



## Aczdreign

I might be a little late on this, and I've mentioned it before, but a house a few blocks from mine has what APPEARS to be a chihuahua/pitbull mix of some sort. 
I put chihuahua first because the thing is under a foot tall and mean as HELL.


----------



## whtpit45

I have a pocket pit. To be more specific, a pocket American Pit Bull Terrier. He looks just like an average APBT just shorter. He weighs about 40-50 pounds as well. He is very muscular and barrel chested, but his brothers are fairly muscular, but without the barrel chest.


----------



## apbtmom76

There is NO such thing as a pocket pit bull, Period, you can have pocket Bullies but NEVER pocket APBT's, a true game bred APBT weighs in at under 55lbs, so one that weighs 30 to 40lbs is normal and NOT a pocket pit. I just had this debate with a guy on FB today, smh


----------



## Nizmo

No sir, you do not have a pocket apbt. No such thing.
The standard is somewhere between 28 and 58 pounds. Do you have papers with the dog?


----------



## performanceknls

I have a house full of pocket pits they are all under 40lbs and very short! LMAO
oh seriously most of my dogs are under 18" and under 40lbs that is the normal standard for most of them, there is no such thing as a pocket pit bull or if you are going off that size you mentioned then they are all pockets.


----------



## Elvisfink

whtpit45 said:


> I have a pocket pit. To be more specific, a pocket American Pit Bull Terrier. He looks just like an average APBT just shorter. He weighs about 40-50 pounds as well. He is very muscular and barrel chested, but his brothers are fairly muscular, but without the barrel chest.


Bwahahahahaha! :roll:


----------



## MISSAPBT

Gracie must be teacup apbt she is 32lbs!


----------



## apbtmom76

lmfaoooo Livy, tht is funny as all get out


----------



## La~Payasa

*"Pocket"Pit*

Joker - THE956BULLYSQUAD.COM

(fallow the link)

Thats my Baby Joker..he is 8Month


----------



## MaxSBT

My Max is a fully papered, KC reg, and 100% Staffordshire Bull Terrier, even though he is concidered a large staffy at 18" at the withers, and 45lbs ... and in my opinion, the only true breed to be called a "pocket pit" ... he is a true performance breed, and HAS to be worked pretty hard to keep him happy and content 

PS: the second shot is him chaseing a tennis ball as a lure, he is about as "non DA" as a little muscle machine can get :thumbsup:


----------



## circlemkennels

^good looking dog but no "breed" should be called pocket pits.. there is no such thing and a big part of all the bsl going on is because of people mislabeling breeds.


----------



## Odin`s_BlueDragon

I agree with Circlem. There is no "pocket pit".... only pocket bullies. What's the measurement on that anyway? I forget. 16" or 17" I think


----------



## MaxSBT

circlemkennels said:


> ^good looking dog but no "breed" should be called pocket pits.. there is no such thing and a big part of all the bsl going on is because of people mislabeling breeds.


Absolutly :thumbsup: .. My opinion is that "pocket pit" is a phrase and nothing else .. I just meant that if it was intended as just a discription, with the SBT's background, and that the standard requires a height of 14-16" at the withers, and upto 38lbs for a dog/ upto 34lbs for a bitch ... and that this size isnt the result of some "plank" wanting to produce a smaller version of a larger dog .. it just sums them up pretty well .. but like has been said, BSL has, and will continue to be one of the biggest farce's in dog history, and has gone mad over here for 2-3 decades which you're probably all aware of, so its not a phrase that we hear thank god !!


----------



## Dixie Chick

Pocket Pits and Am Bullys are NOT APBT's. Period.


----------

