# A good friend needs HELP!!!



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

A great friend of mine has a pit that is incredibly allergic to a long list of things. This is the dog that my puppy plays with all the time and he is a PHENOMENAL representative of the breed. However, they have been cooking his meals for years now, but it is interfering with their life because now they need to travel a lot more and its not feasible to always have meals like that for him. Moreover, no boarding houses are going to cook for him if they have to board him while away. They really, REALLY need to get him onto a dry kibble. 

He is completely grain intollerant and is allergic to poultry, peas, pea protein, eggs, and cheese.

They got him onto Merrick Before Grains Pork, and he LOVED it...only two bags in and they changed it to Merrick Grain Free Real Pork, which now has peas and pea protein in it.

Does ANYONE know of a food that this dog could eat??? This man and his dog have worked wonders for us. He completely taught my puppy how to play with other dogs and I'd really like to return the favor. 

Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Their dog sounds like a good canidate for the RAW diet. My girl has allergies too but no kibble would do her justice. I put her on a PMR raw diet and BOOM complete 360. Now I know you said that they have cooked his food for years but if they aren't giving him the right supplements like calcium and omega 3's then it can prove detrimental to his health and cause vitamin deficiency. However, I know you also stated that they will be traveling and may have to board him at somepoint and that no one will cook for their dog but if it were me I'd look for a private dog care giver who can come to there home and take care of him that way. Or even you care for him since your a friend  . If what they are doing is working for him and has helped then why are they wanting to stop now? Their are other options they can look into for dog care and if they go away for two weeks then they will just need to make enough food to give to the person watching the dog so they can freeze it and defrost as needed. I'm sure some place will work with them. Seems to me that they are just sick of cooking for the dog LOL!! Which I did that for 6 months before feeding raw and it is time consuming. Feeding raw is much easier.


----------



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

He's been on the RAW diet his whole life, he's six years old now. But its costing them a fortune and for the first time, the inconvenience is actually effecting their lives. RAW is amazing and probably the best, but for now they need a kibble.


----------



## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

You're never gonna find a kibble that will give the same results


----------



## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

NYBlueNose said:


> A great friend of mine has a pit that is incredibly allergic to a long list of things. This is the dog that my puppy plays with all the time and he is a PHENOMENAL representative of the breed. *However, they have been cooking his meals for years now*, but it is interfering with their life because now they need to travel a lot more and its not feasible to always have meals like that for him. Moreover, no boarding houses are going to cook for him if they have to board him while away. They really, REALLY need to get him onto a dry kibble.
> 
> He is completely grain intollerant and is allergic to poultry, peas, pea protein, eggs, and cheese.
> 
> ...


You said right there in bold that they cook for him??? There is a huge difference in cooking and feeding raw. RAW is by far the better choice for a dog like him.....I don't know of any kibble that will compare because even the best of the best like Acana and Orijen use eggs, peas, potatos, and other ingredients that can cause allergies. Here is the new Acana duck and pear but it still has peas in it...as well as pea fiber. Duck & Bartlett Pear | Acana I will try and see if I can help you find something but they should also be able to use google to find other options to  looks like with what he's allergic to though that it will prove to be a challenge.


----------



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

You should never give raw pork to a dog, so they have to cook it for a few minutes. Long enough to kill bacteria but certainly not long enough for humans to eat. However, the mission is to find a kibble, they are very familiar with the RAW diet but I appreciate the advice.


----------



## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

NYBlueNose said:


> You should never give raw pork to a dog, so they have to cook it for a few minutes. Long enough to kill bacteria but certainly not long enough for humans to eat. However, the mission is to find a kibble, they are very familiar with the RAW diet but I appreciate the advice.


Nothing is BETTER than raw and my girl gets raw pork but I freeze it for a couple of weeks before feeding it. No need to cook it. Best of luck finding a kibble that will even compare to RAW. Guarantee they are going to end up with an itchy bumpy dog again once they start feeding him kibble. Poor thing.....


----------



## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

NYBlueNose said:


> You should never give raw pork to a dog, so they have to cook it for a few minutes. Long enough to kill bacteria but certainly not long enough for humans to eat. However, the mission is to find a kibble, they are very familiar with the RAW diet but I appreciate the advice.


Cooking it takes the nutrients out of it


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Blue_Nose_Bella said:


> You said right there in bold that they cook for him??? There is a huge difference in cooking and feeding raw. RAW is by far the better choice for a dog like him.....I don't know of any kibble that will compare because even the best of the best like Acana and Orijen use eggs, peas, potatos, and other ingredients that can cause allergies. Here is the new Acana duck and pear but it still has peas in it...as well as pea fiber. Duck & Bartlett Pear | Acana I will try and see if I can help you find something but they should also be able to use google to find other options to  looks like with what he's allergic to though that it will prove to be a challenge.


While true, some ingredients are prone to a higher allergy rate than others.. The direct cause is not that of ingredient itself but rather the quality of ingredient.

Also, as both raw and kibble feeder (depending on in or out of season) i can tell you a high quality kibble comparing to raw in terms of over all health and appearance, is very slight. There is barely a difference between when on Orijen and when feeding raw, many believe there is a significant difference between but it also comes back around to what kind of quality of feed you were feeding.

Now i will also say, some dogs do show quite a noticeable difference between the two regardless, most often than not this comes from a genetic basis vs anything else.

But to say as a rule a "real" quality feed can't produce the same results, isn't accurate.

Now, as to the raw being cooked.. Are you feeding raw food if the raw feed is not raw? No, cooking not only reduces the natural nutritional value but also can cause numerous long term problems such as digestive track infections, kidney infections, allergies and dull/dry coat and skin.

A wolf does not cook its food prior to eating, nor does feral dogs... Nor does anything that must depend upon itself for survival except humans.

The digestive track, stomach, everything is set up to intake raw substance. Although dogs do have the keen ability to adjust and adapt to many types of foods, raw is the purest of feed. Kibble has only been around a little over a 100 years, prior to this was 100% raw.

Your friend needs to stop being a chief and just feed raw, thawed. A kibble such as Orijen would offer and benefit far more than cooking, however depending on the severity of the problems, they may have ironically induced these allergic reactions and problems they are facing now due to their cooking. Good intentions or not.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

NYBlueNose said:


> You should never give raw pork to a dog, so they have to cook it for a few minutes. Long enough to kill bacteria but certainly not long enough for humans to eat. However, the mission is to find a kibble, they are very familiar with the RAW diet but I appreciate the advice.


Also, since you say the are "very familiar" with the raw diet, i'm assuming they also know that much of the same bacteria can also be found naturally, within the digestive track of k9s?

Just because someone has "made meals" for an animal for "x" amount of years doesn't mean they are educated in what they are doing.

I've seen people where they have been breeding for years and still don't understand how to fully trace pedigree, what the breed of choice is meant to do and what they are producing... And i'm not just talking a few years.

I've seen people that have 8+ dogs in a yard and believe they know what they are doing, until a fight happens and end up with a dead dog because they believed "its all in how you raise them" and they "raised them with love, affection and pack mentality".

Point is, how long or how much you have invested doesn't mean you are brilliant. Brilliance comes with patience and the ability to admit your wrong and start over. You have to be willing to lay foundation and build yourself up rather than hitting the ground runnin' blind.


----------



## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Science Diet ZD doesn't have what you listed in the ingredients so it might work. It's expensive but works. Now I'm not a fan of science diet however they have some good prescription diets that work.

Also Raw can be bought in many stores already pre packaged and ready to serve. It sounds like it's more of a money issue in that case there are not a lot of cheap alternatives, Raw can be the cheapest way to feed a dog with allergies if done right. I get hundreds of pounds of free raw meat from hunters in the winter. I just go to the butcher and go pick up the parts that are not for human consumption as per the FDA.

z/d® Canine ULTRA Allergen-Free - Dry


----------



## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> While true, some ingredients are prone to a higher allergy rate than others.. The direct cause is not that of ingredient itself but rather the quality of ingredient.
> 
> Also, as both raw and kibble feeder (depending on in or out of season) i can tell you a high quality kibble comparing to raw in terms of over all health and appearance, is very slight. There is barely a difference between when on Orijen and when feeding raw, many believe there is a significant difference between but it also comes back around to what kind of quality of feed you were feeding.
> 
> ...


I personally can't compare ANY quality of kibble to what a PMR raw diet of meat, bones, and organs have done for my dog and her allergies. I tried both Orijen and Acana but neither helped my dog......If you just put an already healthy dog like your dogs with no skin issues/allergies on a raw diet after feeding Orijen or Acana then I guess you would probably see little to no change even though to me raw is far more superior than any kibble. Plus with raw being the more "biologically" appropriate way to feed it just can't compare IMO. I'm on some raw chat groups and have heard many of the same issues my dog was having with allergies and raw was the miracle cure. I'm not saying it's the "end all be all" but the proof is on my dogs skin and coat that raw is where it's at. Oh, and her teeth are white again with no tartar thanks to the bones she eats.....natures natural toothbrush


----------



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

Lol, I'm not sure why some of you are so defensive about RAW diets, when I never even mentioned them. This is not for MY dog, I am simply trying to help a friend out so there really is no need to shoot the messenger. I'm well aware of the benefits of RAW and never once compared the quality of it to a kibble. Then again, not many people who are feeding their dogs RAW are actually making meals of the same quality as quite a few of the dog foods out there, such as Acana or Orijen. Just because it's RAW, doesn't mean its the best. That's like saying there is nothing healthier than a home cooked meal... kinda depends on whose home, what food, and who is cooking it.


----------



## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

The reality is for the price your not going to find a food that fits that dogs needs that will cost any less then feeding a quality raw diet.


----------



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

I honestly agree with you. He has been looking for years and can't find anything. The aforementioned Science Diet has chicken liver in it, so he can't eat that either. Thank god my little girl is a TANK with absolutely no food allergies.


----------



## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

Heres a couple you can show them I may have miss something and not sure of quality on all since I haven't fed any of them myself.

Instinct: Duck Meal & Turkey Meal Formula: Grain-Free Kibble for Dogs | Nature's Variety

Natural Balance Duck & Potato Formula - Dry Dog Food - 1800PetMeds


----------



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

This is the kind of feedback I was looking for. Thank you kindly, I'll look into it.


----------



## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

They don't have all the other but, everything I have found has some kind of poultry in it unfortunately. Even ones with out poultry as main ingredient has chicken fat in it.


----------



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

The Duck based food could be a winner, apparently he is highly allergic to turkey, which I was literally just told. I sent him the information though so we'll see if it helps.


----------



## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Do they have a computer?? All they have to do is "google" to research themselves  just saying lol!
Natural balance is pretty good stuff though and they have a ton of varieties.
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/product-category.aspx?ProductCategoryID=8&category=Dog+Dry+Formulas


----------



## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

Yea check out the Fish and Potato one on the site Bella posted looks like it fits the bill. I believe that's the one I seen earlier and for some reason lost the page that fit your criteria.


----------



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

Yes they do, but he is away traveling for work right now. Like I said in the first post, I am trying to do him a favor. He doesn't even know I'm looking for him. This man has bent over backwards to help me out with my own dog and I would like to return the favor. I spent quite a bit of time "googling" for foods myself, but when there are thousands of varieties, its not that simple. Luckily, it looks like these can work for him. I could be wrong, but think these are the ONLY two that might work at all.


----------



## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

NYBlueNose said:


> Yes they do, but he is away traveling for work right now. Like I said in the first post, I am trying to do him a favor. He doesn't even know I'm looking for him. This man has bent over backwards to help me out with my own dog and I would like to return the favor. I spent quite a bit of time "googling" for foods myself, but when there are thousands of varieties, its not that simple. Luckily, it looks like these can work for him. I could be wrong, but think these are the ONLY two that might work at all.


I didn't look at them all but it seems as though there is A LOT of pea and pea protein used! Geez..... :hammer: 
Fish and sweet potato ingredients:
Sweet Potatoes, Salmon, Salmon Meal, Canola Oil, Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, DL-methionine, Choline Chloride, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

LOOKS GOOD!!


----------



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

Apparently Natural Balance really burned them a few years back. They were adding chicken fat to the foods, imported from China, and never listed it on the ingredients list. This gave him bloody diarrhea for weeks. Oh well, we tried, lol. Now I'm just strongly urging him to switch to RAW, there apparently isn't a single food out there he can use for now.


----------



## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

NM
I just read the pea part of his allergies.


----------



## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

GOT ONE!
Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato Dry Dog Food 

Trout, Oatmeal, Herring Meal, Oat Flour, Canola Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid), Sweet Potatoes, Calcium Carbonate, Flax Seed, Lecithin, Dicalcium Phosphate, Organic Quinoa Seed Meal, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, a-Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (Source of Vitamin B1), Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid), Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Manganous Sulfate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate), Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Bromelain, Papain, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermenation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermenation Product. 

I've never fed it, but I was just looking for ingredients that weren't on the allergy list. There is Oatmeal in it, but that's not likely to cause an allergy.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

I still don't understand why they don't just feed RAW.. 

As to kibble, it is about quality of the ingredients as to whether or not allergies will subside.. That is, unless they've let it go for too long then Raw is their only option.

If it is that bothersome.. 

Addiction//Kangaroo And Apples:
Dried Kangaroo Meat, Oats, Rice, Peas, Canola Oil, Apples, Dried Yeast, Garlic, Taurine, Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Calcium Panthothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Niacin (Vitamin B3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Biotin (Vitamin B7), Calcium Iodate, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Zinc Sulphate, Copper Sulphate, Ferrous Sulphate, Manganese Sulphate

Instinct// LTD Lamb
Lamb Meal, Tapioca, Peas, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Natural Flavor, Montmorillonite Clay, Coconut Oil, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Ethylenediamine Dyhydriodide, Sodium Selenite), Choline Chloride, Green Tea Extract, Rosemary Extract.

Grandma Lucky's Pure Performance//Rabbit

USDA Rabbit, Chickpeas, Flax, Carrots, Celery, Apples, Bananas, Blueberries, Cranberries, Pumpkin, Papaya, Spinach, Garlic, Rosemary, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Niacin, Iron, Calcium, Phosphorus, Zinc, Riboflavin, Thiamin, Potassium, Manganese, Chloride, Copper, Magnesium, Pyridoxine, Cyanocobalamin

Grandma Lucky's//Venison

USDA Venison, Potatoes, Flax, Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Celery, Apples, Bananas, Blueberry, Cranberries, Pumpkin, Garlic, Rosemary, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Niacin, Iron, Calcium, Phosphorus, Zinc, Riboflavin, Thiamin, Potassium, Manganese, Chloride, Copper, Magnesium, Pyridoxine, Cyanocobalamin

OR Orijen OR Acana OR have them feed REAL raw. (By the way, i dont recommend very limited ingredient based feeds because it doesn't offer what a dog needs on a day to day regular diet. However gave you a few "better" options.. )

Making it much harder than it is.


----------



## NYBlueNose (Apr 22, 2012)

KMdogs said:


> I still don't understand why they don't just feed RAW..
> 
> As to kibble, it is about quality of the ingredients as to whether or not allergies will subside.. That is, unless they've let it go for too long then Raw is their only option.
> 
> ...


The first two have peas, but the second two definitely could work. Just emailed him everything. Thank you again for your help, it is much appreciated.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

No problem, but again has to do with quality of ingredients not the ingredient themselves.. But is what it is.


----------

