# Nees help picking a puppy



## DeJa (Jan 22, 2011)

They both are boys


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## BastienBully (Aug 8, 2011)

They are both really cute! I like #2 a bit more lol But looks are not all that mathers in picking a puppy.


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## save_HUTCH (Aug 9, 2011)

They are both extremely cute. 

Number 1 looks like He is gonna be a big baby, and number looks like he is gonna be a goof ball!


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I dont like the feet on #2 dunno jus me maybe , id go with #1. who they off of?


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## MamaTank (Jun 12, 2011)

OMG! I'd want them BOTH! lol!! 
I think #1 looks like a go-getter, while #2 looks like a goofball! 
But both are so cute!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

you should base your new pup off personality instead of looks. They are both cute.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Do you have a pedigree on these cute little guys? If not and you are going by looka alone in picking one...bad idea you should be looking at personalities but I like number one.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

definitely look for personality even thou, wen i picked my pup...I swore I was getting a calm little angel. His rank has now changed to devils seed. lol 

But idk...both of them look "cute" and im kinda agreeing w angel baby on #2's feet. 

...but it might just be the pic and the way the dog had his feet set. 

...I kinda like 2 if his feet look ok in person


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Who is the breeder of these dogs and do they have a website? I think you should get some opinions about that as well. I don't care for the feet either but they are cute...though all puppies are cute lol! I wouldn't advise you to get either of them if they are from some random BYB. JMO


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

The feet on #2 look kinda odd...Are they American Bullies?

I dunno... I guess #1?


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## Chevys And Pitties (Jul 24, 2011)

Mom is on left in 1st pic
Dad in 2nd
http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/1807409.html
Link to wanna be craigslist page

... its looking like a BYB... but I can't talk much since that's where I got my little girl. Make sure they don't sell you a crock of with CKC papers like I fell for.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

are they papered at all? not that it is that important for just a pet but its nice to know what you are getting and check out the parents peds. If they arent papered and you really dont know the history of the parents id be more inclined just to get a rescue. parents dont look that bad but dont look to be APBT ,looks more closer to a bully was that the direction you were wanting?

edit: just read the ad , thats not a bad price dont know how much dogs usually sell down there but that would be unheard of up here for papered dog. ID spend some time with the parents and pups though get a feel for them all temperment and personality before choosing 1.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Look like some BYB bullies to me.....After everything I have learned here I wouldn't take a puppy from them. Looks like a random BYB as I first said.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

I wouldn't touch either one for many reasons, wont go into them though as most probably know why aside from the already stated.
What are you looking for in a pup?


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

BYB'ers. Those dogs are unconditioned back yard pets...


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

I honestly wouldnt touch them. For a few hundred more bucks you can find a well bred APBT from breeders on this site. I wont get into much here but those dogs being bred are just pet quality.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

I really can't say anything about BYB, because I myself have a BYB pup. I would really base it on personality like everyone else has said, and what you are looking for in the pup. I like how chubby the 2nd one is, though. The first one is adorable and looks more active.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> I honestly wouldnt touch them. For a few hundred more bucks you can find a well bred APBT from breeders on this site. I wont get into much here but those dogs being bred are just pet quality.


Yep. :clap:


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

PRSweetKandi said:


> I really can't say anything about BYB, because I myself have a BYB pup. I would really base it on personality like everyone else has said, and what you are looking for in the pup. I like how chubby the 2nd one is, though. The first one is adorable and looks more active.


You live and you learn. The way to stop BYB is to stop supporting them.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Alot of us bought from BYB's first time around I'm sure. But being here first Deja has the advantage to not purchase from one and to go to a more responsible breeder. Alot of us came here after the fact to


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> You live and you learn. The way to stop BYB is to stop supporting them.


Well, I support the one I got her from, because he took care of the pups very well. I was not even aloud to take my girl until she had all three rounds of her puppy shots to prevent parvo and all the diseases. They are very excellent with their dogs and they treat them all with respect and loving care. When I met the pups before I picked my girl, he told me all of their different personalities, and I could see what he was talking about when I met them. I love her, and she has been a pretty amazing pup.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Blue_Nose_Bella said:


> Alot of us bought from BYB's first time around I'm sure. But being here first Deja has the advantage to not purchase from one and to go to a more responsible breeder. Alot of us came here after the fact to


I agree. My GSD came from one although I knew the parents and where they were from etc. Regardless of Onyx's sire being a police K9, had I known what I know now, I wouldnt have bought him. But hey, he is still a good boy.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Personality? Yes, drive, temperament, etc. Dog without a purpose might as well go to a shelter, find a perfect pet there.

No reason to continue the BYB support, information is out there for those wiling to learn and educate before bringing a pup home. Countless people have learned from mistakes no reason for people to continue the cycle. You can get "lucky" with a BYB and end up with a decent dog, perhaps on rare occasion a good worker. People now in days should still know better.

As i said if you want just a pet goto a shelter, leaving the breeding for advancement.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

PRSweetKandi said:


> Well, I support the one I got her from, because he took care of the pups very well. I was not even aloud to take my girl until she had all three rounds of her puppy shots to prevent parvo and all the diseases. They are very excellent with their dogs and they treat them all with respect and loving care. When I met the pups before I picked my girl, he told me all of their different personalities, and I could see what he was talking about when I met them. I love her, and she has been a pretty amazing pup.


Check this out. While I love dogs a great deal, many shouldnt attempt to breed for many reasons. Especially, if its to mass produce pets for money.

http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/36991-breeding-backyard-hobby.html


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## Chevys And Pitties (Jul 24, 2011)

Does anyone else think that the speckled nose is knuckling over in her left/our right, leg? In every picture it seems to be really awkward. They definitely have some super splayed toes though. lol

And it kinda looks like they let the adult dogs romp around in a pen and whoever hits a cycle first gets jumped... The first pic has another adult dog in the background in addition to the one beside her who is not the Sire.

Also... could living on wood all the time cause them to have those odd feet?


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Chevys And Pitties said:


> Does anyone else think that the speckled nose is knuckling over in her left/our right, leg? In every picture it seems to be really awkward. They definitely have some super splayed toes though. lol
> 
> And it kinda looks like they let the adult dogs romp around in a pen and whoever hits a cycle first gets jumped... The first pic has another adult dog in the background in addition to the one beside her who is not the Sire.
> 
> Also... could living on wood all the time cause them to have those odd feet?


Yes and I dont think living on wood will have an effect. I can be wrong but I dont think so.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Oh and i just looked at the ad. Everything about that ad should send you running for the hills. lol


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## Chevys And Pitties (Jul 24, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> Yes and I dont think living on wood will have an effect. I can be wrong but I dont think so.


It was just a random question that popped into my head after I posted... so I had to let it out. At least I'm not like Bill Engvall and wonder if fish talk to other fish... lol


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

PRSweetKandi said:


> Well, I support the one I got her from, because he took care of the pups very well. I was not even aloud to take my girl until she had all three rounds of her puppy shots to prevent parvo and all the diseases. They are very excellent with their dogs and they treat them all with respect and loving care. When I met the pups before I picked my girl, he told me all of their different personalities, and I could see what he was talking about when I met them. I love her, and she has been a pretty amazing pup.


Just because you have a sweet dog and the BYB's took care of them does not mean they were right to breed them. Ignorance on the buyers part is what keeps them breeding.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> Just because you have a sweet dog and the BYB's took care of them does not mean they were right to breed them. Ignorance on the buyers part is what keeps them breeding.


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

I am by no means ignorant... I'm sorry that my post offended you? 
I am doing everything I can to learn as much as possible about my dog and her breed.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

You know, you could also(if you are looking for a petbull) go to a local shelter and adopt one.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

PRSweetKandi said:


> Well, I support the one I got her from, because he took care of the pups very well. I was not even aloud to take my girl until she had all three rounds of her puppy shots to prevent parvo and all the diseases. They are very excellent with their dogs and they treat them all with respect and loving care. When I met the pups before I picked my girl, he told me all of their different personalities, and I could see what he was talking about when I met them. I love her, and she has been a pretty amazing pup.


That's great a lot of us have made the mistake of buying dogs from a BYB at one point or another but the point is these people are not breeding to benefit the breed they are breeding to support their households which means they breed for money and money only. Once you know better you do better. If you support one BYB you support them all. There are a lot of BYB's who take care of their pups but they failed to breed quality representatives of the breed basically they are breeding junk and vetting them off to their new homes. Proper care of dogs is a basic requirement to own an animal wether your breeding or not. Breeding is a true art/science if your breeding for the breed and not to pay your house note you are truly in it for the dogs. The BYB you just described they are flooded all over craigslist. You either support BYB's or you don't there is no but or in-between. A dog man once said never buy a dog from a man who makes his living selling dogs. There is a lot of truth in that statement.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

Sadie said:


> That's great a lot of us have made the mistake of buying dogs from a BYB at one point or another but the point is these people are not breeding to benefit the breed they are breeding to support their households which means they breed for money and money only. Once you know better you do better. If you support one BYB you support them all. There are a lot of BYB's who take care of their pups but they failed to breed quality representatives of the breed basically they are breeding junk and vetting them off to their new homes. Proper care of dogs is a basic requirement to own an animal wether your breeding or not. Breeding is a true art/science if your breeding for the breed and not to pay your house note you are truly in it for the dogs. The BYB you just described they are flooded all over craigslist. You either support BYB's or you don't there is no but or in-between. A dog man once said never buy a dog from a man who makes his living selling dogs. There is a lot of truth in that statement.


:goodpost:

I made that mistake and it only leads to heartache..especially when you spend alot of money in the vets from BYB error..ultimately the owners suffer because we get attached to our dogs despite the quality of the animal then we have to say bye to them.

Luckily I learned and got my new pup from a reputable breeder. 

OP, I suggest not touching either pup and go to your local shelter or a reputable breeder. their fronts don't look right to me and the mom looks high in the rear and the hinds look rather straight not extremely straight but she looks it. maybe angle? but even in a front position It looks to be messed up but I could be wrong and her front looks horrid but I am no expert..I just call it as I see it


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Sadie said:


> That's great a lot of us have made the mistake of buying dogs from a BYB at one point or another but the point is these people are not breeding to benefit the breed they are breeding to support their households which means they breed for money and money only. Once you know better you do better. If you support one BYB you support them all. There are a lot of BYB's who take care of their pups but they failed to breed quality representatives of the breed basically they are breeding junk and vetting them off to their new homes. Proper care of dogs is a basic requirement to own an animal wether your breeding or not. Breeding is a true art/science if your breeding for the breed and not to pay your house note you are truly in it for the dogs. The BYB you just described they are flooded all over craigslist. You either support BYB's or you don't there is no but or in-between. A dog man once said never buy a dog from a man who makes his living selling dogs. There is a lot of truth in that statement.


I agree w everything u said...except the "u support one, u support them all..." statement.

...but who am I??? lol 

to the OP, just do your research and dont be fooled by puppy eyes and cheap $. If there is the slightest inclination to doubt anything of that byb litter...RUN!

...its alwayz a gamble when u get a dog from a byb. just be smart about it


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

Just because I support one "BYB" does NOT mean that I support them all. By your standards and by my standards, maybe he's not just a "BYB". 
I posted that first comment before I saw that the site was posted from the dogs he was looking to buy. I wouldn't buy a puppy from those people who are calling their American Bullies "American Pitbull Terriers" when they are infact Bullies.

You don't know anything about the place that I got my dog from or the measures that they take for their dogs. After reading that post about Breeder A and Breeder B, NO I didn't just get my dog from a BYB. Apparently, I don't know what a "BYB" is.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

The goal for breeding is supposed to improve the breed. If it's purpose is to produce pets, then he isn't doing anything for the breed unfortunately but producing pet quality animals. That's why shelters are flooded and there's a crap load of unsound dogs, both temperament and health wise. It's pretty simple.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

NoWuCmEnOwU... said:


> I agree w everything u said...except the "u support one, u support them all..." statement.
> 
> ...but who am I??? lol
> 
> ...


Once you learn the difference between a breeder who breeds to benefit the breed vs a Peddler who breeds to put money in his pocket you should no longer be supporting BYB's. If you don't know the difference you get a walking pass and no one can fault you but once you learn the difference you should no longer be supporting them. That is what I meant by that statement.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Once you learn the difference between a breeder who breeds to benefit the breed vs a Peddler who breeds to put money in his pocket you should no longer be supporting BYB's. If you don't know the difference you get a walking pass and no one can fault you but once you learn the difference you should no longer be supporting them. That is what I meant by that statement.


Here's a question. What do you think of a breeder that has ONE set of pups but doesn't over breed. He breeds dogs with Champion Bloodlines. Socializes the pups and only has one litter at a time. After the dam has produced a certain amount of litters, that dog is still part of the family and isn't SOLD but cared for.

I'm sorry if I misinterpretted what a byb was. but I'm pretty sure I didn't buy my girl from one the way ya'll are putting them. I'm pretty sure I'm learning a little more of the definition, and I don't plan on buying another dog anyways. I'd just like to clear the air. LOL


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

PRSweetKandi said:


> Here's a question. What do you think of a breeder that has ONE set of pups but doesn't over breed. He breeds dogs with Champion Bloodlines. Socializes the pups and only has one litter at a time. After the dam has produced a certain amount of litters, that dog is still part of the family and isn't SOLD but cared for.
> 
> I'm sorry if I misinterpretted what a byb was. but I'm pretty sure I didn't buy my girl from one the way ya'll are putting them. I'm pretty sure I'm learning a little more of the definition, and I don't plan on buying another dog anyways. I'd just like to clear the air. LOL


IMHO just because a dog comes from champion bloodlines doesn't mean it should be bred.There are pups that are born from champion parents that should only be just pets.There's nothing special about them.You need to be doing something with your dogs in order to breed them to better the breed.Not just because you like the blood.If he wasn't contributing to the breed with HIS dogs then there was no reason to breed them.Any good breeder doesn't want to breed just more pets.


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

PRSweetKandi said:


> I really can't say anything about BYB, because I myself have a BYB pup. I would really base it on personality like everyone else has said, and what you are looking for in the pup. I like how chubby the 2nd one is, though. The first one is adorable and looks more active.





PRSweetKandi said:


> Here's a question. What do you think of a breeder that has ONE set of pups but doesn't over breed. He breeds dogs with Champion Bloodlines. Socializes the pups and only has one litter at a time. After the dam has produced a certain amount of litters, that dog is still part of the family and isn't SOLD but cared for.
> 
> I'm sorry if I misinterpretted what a byb was. but I'm pretty sure I didn't buy my girl from one the way ya'll are putting them. I'm pretty sure I'm learning a little more of the definition, and I don't plan on buying another dog anyways. I'd just like to clear the air. LOL


I'd say the breeder is making steps in the right direction.

A byb is someone who breeds dogs frequently to make money, breeds dogs with health problems, dogs with no papers although I do see people breeding dogs with papers and they are still BYB's because their dogs have poor health, structure and temperament. Also BYB's usually don't give pups vet care and they don't care where the pups go. A reputable breeder doesn't need to advertise on craigslist or other websites like it either.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

PRSweetKandi said:


> I am by no means ignorant... I'm sorry that my post offended you?
> I am doing everything I can to learn as much as possible about my dog and her breed.


Being ignorant is not a bad thing it means you are not educated on what every we are talking about. You are very new to the breed and have a lot to learn. Being ignorant is not the same as being stupid. I am ignorant of calculus for example does that mean I am stupid? No it means I am ignorant of that subject and I would not take offense.



PRSweetKandi said:


> Just because I support one "BYB" does NOT mean that I support them all. By your standards and by my standards, maybe he's not just a "BYB".
> I posted that first comment before I saw that the site was posted from the dogs he was looking to buy. I wouldn't buy a puppy from those people who are calling their American Bullies "American Pitbull Terriers" when they are infact Bullies.
> 
> You don't know anything about the place that I got my dog from or the measures that they take for their dogs. After reading that post about Breeder A and Breeder B, NO I didn't just get my dog from a BYB. Apparently, *I don't know what a "BYB" is*.


No one is trying to attack you but your statements were very odd. You said you support byb's now you are saying you don't. I think you are getting defensive for nothing really. Take a deep breath and start over.



Mach0 said:


> The goal for breeding is supposed to improve the breed. If it's purpose is to produce pets, then he isn't doing anything for the breed unfortunately but producing pet quality animals. That's why shelters are flooded and there's a crap load of unsound dogs, both temperament and health wise. It's pretty simple.


:goodpost:


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

PRSweetKandi said:


> Here's a question. What do you think of a breeder that has ONE set of pups but doesn't over breed. He breeds dogs with Champion Bloodlines. Socializes the pups and only has one litter at a time. After the dam has produced a certain amount of litters, that dog is still part of the family and isn't SOLD but cared for.
> 
> I'm sorry if I misinterpretted what a byb was. but I'm pretty sure I didn't buy my girl from one the way ya'll are putting them. I'm pretty sure I'm learning a little more of the definition, and I don't plan on buying another dog anyways. I'd just like to clear the air. LOL


What is CH blood lines? I see that advertised a lot and in reality they are not bred from CH. It is a typical BYB ploy to sell dogs. Do you have a pedigree that would really help to see if they are CH bloodlines.

Yes this would pretty much be a BYB if they are not breeding for a purpose, breeding pets and taking good care of them does not make you a good breeder.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

PRSweetKandi said:


> Here's a question. What do you think of a breeder that has ONE set of pups but doesn't over breed. He breeds dogs with Champion Bloodlines. Socializes the pups and only has one litter at a time. After the dam has produced a certain amount of litters, that dog is still part of the family and isn't SOLD but cared for.
> 
> I'm sorry if I misinterpretted what a byb was. but I'm pretty sure I didn't buy my girl from one the way ya'll are putting them. I'm pretty sure I'm learning a little more of the definition, and I don't plan on buying another dog anyways. I'd just like to clear the air. LOL


It's ok basically what I meant to say is when you breed dogs or any animal like show horses, livestock, ect you should be breeding for a goal or a purpose to produce quality animals that are great representations of the breed. I personally feel when you breed you should be breeding for yourself you shouldn't be breeding with the intent to breed for others or sell what you breed to others you should be exclusive with what you breed and keep it within close circles meaning not every jo blow should have a piece of what you breed. Breeding to produce pets is not a goal because if you walk through your shelters you will see plenty of pets who were bred by BYB's guys only thinking about breeding to increase their bottom line vs breeding dogs for a purpose. Our dogs the APBT were bred for working purposes sure they make great pets but they should still be breeding the dogs for work before anything else. If your just a regular person who doesn't compete with your dogs in any working avenue titling them or working them in something basically you are breeding pets who have not been tried or tested for their intended purpose. You have no idea if those dogs are great examples of the breed because you haven't gone out to find out what those dogs can do if they can in fact do anything at all. It's best to leave breeding to those working to maintain the breed by breeding the dogs for their specific purpose those guys are working hard to cull bad examples and only produce quality animals. So in short if you just want a pet don't support the peddlers because they are not working to breed quality animals they are simply producing more pets than they have use for and most of them will end up in the shelters or in the hands of irresponsible owners who will likely continue the cycle of back yard breeding.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Oh and just to add about the CH bloodlines that's fine and dandy that the person breeds dogs that stem from Champions. The question is is he breeding and producing Champions? Has he taken the time to CH any of his dogs in something? Or is he simply breeding off fancy pedigree's and the work of others? That is what you need to look at. Ask the breeder how many dog's he has bred that he personally put CH/GR CH titles on. If they are taking two pets and breeding them without testing those dogs working ability then it does not matter the dogs can have 150 CH's behind them until they have proven they are just as good as the dogs they stem from then they should not be bred.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

PRSweetKandi said:


> Here's a question. What do you think of a breeder that has ONE set of pups but doesn't over breed. He breeds dogs with Champion Bloodlines. Socializes the pups and only has one litter at a time. After the dam has produced a certain amount of litters, that dog is still part of the family and isn't SOLD but cared for.
> 
> I'm sorry if I misinterpretted what a byb was. but I'm pretty sure I didn't buy my girl from one the way ya'll are putting them. I'm pretty sure I'm learning a little more of the definition, and I don't plan on buying another dog anyways. I'd just like to clear the air. LOL


i have found that there is no solid definition for what makes a BYB. there cant be since its basically based off opinion in many cases. ive seen people that bred some of the highest quality animals around that are still being referred to as a BYB. even all the famous, historical dogmen would be considered BYB by most of the standards set today. with that said, found out exactly what kind of dog these people are breeding and selling. i know puppies are cute but when youre just picking a pup based off a couple pics youre making a mistake. you say these dogs are bred from champion bloodlines, can you specify? are they champion sired or do they just have a dog or 2 a couple gens back in the pedigree with a champion in who knows what? if you just want a pet quality animal, i understand. if thats the case, you can go get a pet quality dog at a shelter for cheap, you might even be saving a dogs life. if its a high quality, well bred dog youre looking for, i seriously doubt that breeder youre looking at is the place to get it.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

rob32 said:


> i have found that there is no solid definition for what makes a BYB. there cant be since its basically based off opinion in many cases. ive seen people that bred some of the highest quality animals around that are still being referred to as a BYB. even all the famous, historical dogmen would be considered BYB by most of the standards set today. with that said, found out exactly what kind of dog these people are breeding and selling. i know puppies are cute but when youre just picking a pup based off a couple pics youre making a mistake. you say these dogs are bred from champion bloodlines, can you specify? are they champion sired or do they just have a dog or 2 a couple gens back in the pedigree with a champion in who knows what? if you just want a pet quality animal, i understand. if thats the case, you can go get a pet quality dog at a shelter for cheap, you might even be saving a dogs life. if its a high quality, well bred dog youre looking for, i seriously doubt that breeder youre looking at is the place to get it.


I appreciate your input. My dog's family comes from WestexBlues.org you can look them up I am sure. That is almost all the generations on my pup's sire's side. The dam's side is mostly from texasriverbottomkennels.com. No, I suppose my pup wouldn't meet up to everyone's "standards". But who is to judge me for my decision? Does my dog have to be from a champion for me to work with her? Does she have to be directly a champion be ever BE a champion if I wanted to try to make her one?? I'm not just talking about my pup but this goes for pups in general...

I value and appreciate everone's opinions and everyone is entitled to their own. This is the breed of dog that I wanted. I spent a lot of time with my pup before I actually got her. I think that I made a decent decision. If it's not the best for all of the rest, then I am so sorry. I wouldn't just go get just any dog. I picked her and she picked me.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

In whatever case, no matter what, my sweet Kandi will always be MY champion. <3


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

PRSweetKandi said:


> I appreciate your input. My dog's family comes from WestexBlues.org you can look them up I am sure. That is almost all the generations on my pup's sire's side. The dam's side is mostly from texasriverbottomkennels.com. No, I suppose my pup wouldn't meet up to everyone's "standards". But who is to judge me for my decision? Does my dog have to be from a champion for me to work with her? Does she have to be directly a champion be ever BE a champion if I wanted to try to make her one?? I'm not just talking about my pup but this goes for pups in general...
> 
> I value and appreciate everone's opinions and everyone is entitled to their own. This is the breed of dog that I wanted. I spent a lot of time with my pup before I actually got her. I think that I made a decent decision. If it's not the best for all of the rest, then I am so sorry. I wouldn't just go get just any dog. I picked her and she picked me.


Well if you want to know what honest breeder's do I have told you. I personally wouldn't get a dog off a breeder who's parents were not proven worthy to be bred in the first place. But I have high standards for myself, the breed, and the dogs I will feed. I can't feed garbage I just can't do it. I am sure you spent your share of money on a pet which BTW did he tell you that what you actually bought and own is an American Bully NOT an APBT ?

*Welcome to Texas River Bottom Kennels.
We're proud owners & breeders of the American Pit Bull Terrier. Our yard consist mainly of "Greyline" dogs, we do however have some "Razor's Edge" & "Watchdog" dogs that we use occasionally for an outcross. We breed mostly blue dogs but have other colors too. Our Goal is to produce Big Headed Bully type dogs with structure & substance. We hope you enjoy your visit and please vote for us on one off the Top Sites above and take a moment to sign our guest book if you like what you see. Please note that we do not breed or sale dogs for Illegal purposes!

For more info call and ask for Wesley or Mary. Our mailing address is

Wesley Pate, POB 244 , Chireno, Tx. 75937*

This right here should make you not want to do business with these guys because they are breeding dogs and don't even know what they are breeding. But your right everyones standards are not as high as others.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

PRSweetKandi said:


> In whatever case, no matter what, my sweet Kandi will always be MY champion. <3


Theres no reason you shouldn't love your dog any less, perhaps you will get lucky and have no health issues later on in life as well as result of BYB.. I haven't read any of the latest posts here but i do know that if you did you get your pup through a BYB, don't take the chance again.

Great companions are at the shelter, i wouldn't put anyone "down" for getting a shelter dog if what they wanted was an excellent family pet. When it comes to breeding though, it shouldn't be acceptable to breed "pet worthy" when we are talking about breeds that should be "work worthy".

Dogs should have a purpose and dog owners should fill that purpose. Hunters should hunt. Protectors should protect. Herders herd. etc.

All dogs at one point throughout history had a purpose, i can only think of a handful of breeds that have almost always been held as a status symbol.. Most famously Egyptian times. For many reasons and circumstances these dogs have changed to either useless (compared to what they were) or show dogs.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Well if you want to know what honest breeder's do I have told you. I personally wouldn't get a dog off a breeder who's parents were not proven worthy to be bred in the first place. But I have high standards for myself, the breed, and the dogs I will feed. I can't feed garbage I just can't do it. I am sure you spent your share of money on a pet which BTW did he tell you that what you actually bought and own is an American Bully NOT an APBT ?
> 
> *Welcome to Texas River Bottom Kennels.
> We're proud owners & breeders of the American Pit Bull Terrier. Our yard consist mainly of "Greyline" dogs, we do however have some "Razor's Edge" & "Watchdog" dogs that we use occasionally for an outcross. We breed mostly blue dogs but have other colors too. Our Goal is to produce Big Headed Bully type dogs with structure & substance. We hope you enjoy your visit and please vote for us on one off the Top Sites above and take a moment to sign our guest book if you like what you see. Please note that we do not breed or sale dogs for Illegal purposes!
> ...


Yes, I knew what I was getting when I got her.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Ok because he clearly advertises his dogs as another breed which is very dishonest. Most people see those dogs and think they are getting an APBT when in fact they are not. He should really change his website to reflect the breed of dogs he is breeding and selling to the public. And if he doesn't know what he's breeding then he shouldn't be breeding period.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> Theres no reason you shouldn't love your dog any less, perhaps you will get lucky and have no health issues later on in life as well as result of BYB.. I haven't read any of the latest posts here but i do know that if you did you get your pup through a BYB, don't take the chance again.
> 
> Great companions are at the shelter, i wouldn't put anyone "down" for getting a shelter dog if what they wanted was an excellent family pet. When it comes to breeding though, it shouldn't be acceptable to breed "pet worthy" when we are talking about breeds that should be "work worthy".
> 
> ...


All I want to do is agree to disagree on our expectations. 
I will see where it goes as my dog gets older, goes through obedience training, and as I learn along side with her.

All I am saying is I picked my dog, because we picked each other.

I will make sure that she represents what she is as best that I can, and do all I can to make her the best that she can be. Just like a child.

I'm sorry that my views differ from you. I respect your opinions to the fullest.

This is the only dog I will be having for a very long time. She deserves attention just as my son does, and that is what she will get.

Thanks


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Ok because he clearly advertises his dogs as another breed which is very dishonest. Most people see those dogs and think they are getting an APBT when in fact they are not. He should really change his website to reflect the breed of dogs he is breeding and selling to the public. And if he doesn't know what he's breeding then he shouldn't be breeding period.


I didn't get her from that place. Her ancestors are from Westexblues and redriverbottomkennels I don't really think of the views on that website very highly, honestly. And yes, they do need to change that.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Kandi we are just trying to educate you on the facts should you decide to buy another dog again in the future. I am sure your dog will make you a wonderful pet. And good luck with your animal.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

PRSweetKandi said:


> All I want to do is agree to disagree on our expectations.
> I will see where it goes as my dog gets older, goes through obedience training, and as I learn along side with her.
> 
> All I am saying is I picked my dog, because we picked each other.
> ...


Well i wont go any further for now and i'll put to rest the topic of at least where you got your pup from. Stick around, perhaps in time you will see where we are coming from. Love your pup you have now and i do hope you never run into major issues but in the end let the experienced guide you.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Once you learn the difference between a breeder who breeds to benefit the breed vs a Peddler who breeds to put money in his pocket you should no longer be supporting BYB's. If you don't know the difference you get a walking pass and no one can fault you but once you learn the difference you should no longer be supporting them. That is what I meant by that statement.


 np, gotcha.

da only reason y i said ne thing is cuz i have seen "BYB's" that care 4 their dogs and the breed more than some "legit Kennels" they just dont have licenses. I have also seen very bad ones.

But I have also seen "legit breeders" w litters that come out w knuckling, poor skin, heavy ear and eye infections...and just recently i saw a dog w demodex.

So it can happen eitha way...just gotta be smart and look at all the signs 

we shouldnt kill a fly w a shotgun...lets wack dat bugger w a swatter lol

...damn dat was cheesy lol 

(edit) sorry i didnt read the posts before...didnt mean to stir it up again...incase i do


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

NoWuCmEnOwU... said:


> np, gotcha.
> 
> da only reason y i said ne thing is cuz i have seen "BYB's" that care 4 their dogs and the breed more than some "legit Kennels" they just dont have licenses. I have also seen very bad ones.
> 
> ...


No BYB is going to do for the breed as a "legit" breeder will. If thats what youve seen those "legit" breeders weren't very "legit"


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

dunno wussup witcha da rulz be sayin.. ... LOL just kiddin .. had too.. :hammer: you know Im a nut... 

Good people on here with great words of wisdom. 

Keep it "Legit"


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## DeJa (Jan 22, 2011)

Well thanks for everyones advise thks will be my second pitbull an im looking
For a bully male pitbull...and im aware of papers both dogs are adba registered
Just like deja...but I jus want a thick strong dominant male...


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

DeJa said:


> Well thanks for everyones advise thks will be my second pitbull an im looking
> For a bully male pitbull...and im aware of papers both dogs are adba registered
> Just like deja...but I jus want a thick strong dominant male...


This is part of what everyone is talking about. The dog you describe isn't an American pit bull terrier so having adba papers on the dog doesnt mean much, they're basically fraudulent. The dogs you're looking for are actually American bully, which is, kindly put, another breed. If you like bullies, that's cool. But any breeder who either sells dogs claiming they are a breed they are not or they really don't know what they're breeding, isn't much of a breeder.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

ok sooo i gotta say a couple things here.

what they mean by if you support 1 byb your supporting the rest is your just fueling the market for poorly bred dogs. which means if they're selling then there is a market so new bybs want a piece of the market so they start breeding and they start selling pups and the cycle goes on.

most of the people here have high expectations for their dogs because they know what they want in a dog and they REALLY know what the standards are for these dogs not only in terms of confirmation (which this is a working breed dogs vary), to temperment, to i guess drive and work ethic(i guess is an ok word). my girl got tini from a byb best dog i ever had, but if i had a chance to get another dog off a repeat breeding id have to walk away. now that i know what a real dog is my expectations are higher and i'd love to own a real bulldog one day maybe 2 bull dogs but i gotta work my way into some ones circle or go see tg. also im sure the average joe has never seen a real bulldog.

also i agree with rob. thick isnt a word i'd use to describe an apbt. thick skinned maybe for their owners. if some one say they have short thick pit bulls then they're most likely a byb breeder


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

DeJa said:


> Well thanks for everyones advise thks will be my second pitbull an im looking
> For a bully male pitbull...and im aware of papers both dogs are adba registered
> Just like deja...but I jus want a thick strong dominant male...


Theres no such thing as a "bully pitbull". The term "pitbull" is generally overviewing several breeds under the same generic term. This can also be used for a shelter dog (for instance) where origins are unknown. "Pet Bulls", APBT, SBT, AST, etc can all fall under the term "pitbull" though there is only one that truly defines and thats the APBT. All the other dogs, are not types but rather different breeds all together.

Why, may i ask, do you want a "thick strong dominant male"? If you want to compare strengths, the APBT is hands down a much "stronger" breed than the American Bully. Appearance alone doesn't define a dogs working ability so if you want to talk pound for pound a 35 pound APBT is not only "stronger" than a 75 pound AmBully but also much more versatile.

Now with that said hardly anyone needs an APBT or have the mentality to understand what they are feeding and to properly ensure a healthy and safe bulldog. So with all that said an American Bully would be more beneficial for the average owner in all sense of the word.

Which brings me back to the question, why are you seeking a "thick strong dominate male"? Breeding? Working?

Just trying to understand what you are looking for, perhaps if you explained what it is you are seeking we could help you out more effectively.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> Theres no such thing as a "bully pitbull". The term "pitbull" is generally overviewing several breeds under the same generic term. This can also be used for a shelter dog (for instance) where origins are unknown. "Pet Bulls", APBT, SBT, AST, etc can all fall under the term "pitbull" though there is only one that truly defines and thats the APBT. All the other dogs, are not types but rather different breeds all together.
> 
> Why, may i ask, do you want a "thick strong dominant male"? If you want to compare strengths, the APBT is hands down a much "stronger" breed than the American Bully. Appearance alone doesn't define a dogs working ability so if you want to talk pound for pound a 35 pound APBT is not only "stronger" than a 75 pound AmBully but also much more versatile.
> 
> ...


I agree with your post. I've researched a little bit on the difference between Am Bullies and APBT. The APBT is supposed to be more lean and I suppose more energetic? Which would make them more workable. I see the Am Bullies are strong in the weight pull area since they are more broad and thicker built? (asking as well) Amer Bullies (as mine) have burst of energy, but they are more laid back and a little lazy at times.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

I get a lot of people coming to me and saying that's a pretty pitbull and I have to correct them and say NO she is an American Bully. It is sometimes a little difficult to explain the differences between the two since they have the same facial structure... As I go on in this, I learn more and more on how many BULLIES I see as opposed to how many APBT I DO NOT see. (I don't know if that makes sense or not)


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

PRSweetKandi said:


> I agree with your post. I've researched a little bit on the difference between Am Bullies and APBT. The APBT is supposed to be more lean and I suppose more energetic? Which would make them more workable. I see the Am Bullies are strong in the weight pull area since they are more broad and thicker built? (asking as well) Amer Bullies (as mine) have burst of energy, but they are more laid back and a little lazy at times.


Theres no comparison to the drive and energy between the two breeds. The APBT was breed around the [] and was perfected with that in mind. The breed has also proved through history (and even today) to be a highly skilled worker, excelling in virtually all working aspects.

The American Bully has been bred around the show ring, while i have seen a few Bullies with quite a bit of drive the difference is beyond comparable. Both of these breeds are virtually at the opposite end of the spectrum.

Also if you want to just look at weight alone, APBT's are generally 25 - 55lbs, some can be larger however its not that common.
Bullies, are much larger and bulkier but have such a variety of physical standards per class. I'd say most you see are 70lbs - 85lbs.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> Theres no comparison to the drive and energy between the two breeds. The APBT was breed around the [] and was perfected with that in mind. The breed has also proved through history (and even today) to be a highly skilled worker, excelling in virtually all working aspects.
> 
> The American Bully has been bred around the show ring, while i have seen a few Bullies with quite a bit of drive the difference is beyond comparable. Both of these breeds are virtually at the opposite end of the spectrum.
> 
> ...


Agreed.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

PRSweetKandi said:


> I get a lot of people coming to me and saying that's a pretty pitbull and I have to correct them and say NO she is an American Bully. It is sometimes a little difficult to explain the differences between the two since they have the same facial structure... As I go on in this, I learn more and more on how many BULLIES I see as opposed to how many APBT I DO NOT see. (I don't know if that makes sense or not)


Hardly anyone has an APBT, most are "pet bulls" or Bullies.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

One thing we should remember is that not everyone has the same passion for the apbt that some of us have. I don't wanna go too hard on a newbie here 

I'm also a member on an audiophile audio equipment forum and bullies kinda remind me of Bose audio equipment.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

rob32 said:


> One thing we should remember is that not everyone has the same passion for the apbt that some of us have. I don't wanna go too hard on a newbie here
> 
> I'm also a member on an audiophile audio equipment forum and bullies kinda remind me of Bose audio equipment.


IMO if you are not passionate you shouldn't own one, not an APBT at least. To me that is like owning a Ferrari and not being passionate about it.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

PRSweetKandi said:


> I get a lot of people coming to me and saying that's a pretty pitbull and I have to correct them and say NO she is an American Bully. It is sometimes a little difficult to explain the differences between the two since they have the same facial structure... As I go on in this, I learn more and more on how many BULLIES I see as opposed to how many APBT I DO NOT see. (I don't know if that makes sense or not)


LOL. I tried explaining Bruno to some guy on the street once. he told me to stop making up breeds(Bullies),trying to cover up the fact I was walking a big headed killer APBT in a public park with children. LOLZ.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> Hardly anyone has an APBT, most are "pet bulls" or Bullies.


:goodpost: this only adds to the confusion sometimes too


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## dsgdlover (Feb 21, 2011)

rob32 said:


> i have found that there is no solid definition for what makes a BYB. there cant be since its basically based off opinion in many cases. ive seen people that bred some of the highest quality animals around that are still being referred to as a BYB. even all the famous, historical dogmen would be considered BYB by most of the standards set today. with that said, found out exactly what kind of dog these people are breeding and selling. i know puppies are cute but when youre just picking a pup based off a couple pics youre making a mistake. you say these dogs are bred from champion bloodlines, can you specify? are they champion sired or do they just have a dog or 2 a couple gens back in the pedigree with a champion in who knows what? if you just want a pet quality animal, i understand. if thats the case, you can go get a pet quality dog at a shelter for cheap, you might even be saving a dogs life. if its a high quality, well bred dog youre looking for, i seriously doubt that breeder youre looking at is the place to get it.


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

rob32 said:


> I'm also a member on an audiophile audio equipment forum and bullies kinda remind me of Bose audio equipment.


explain? please. lol i know the difference i just want the opinion on bose


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> Theres no such thing as a "bully pitbull". The term "pitbull" is generally overviewing several breeds under the same generic term. This can also be used for a shelter dog (for instance) where origins are unknown. "Pet Bulls", APBT, SBT, AST, etc can all fall under the term "pitbull" though there is only one that truly defines and thats the APBT. All the other dogs, are not types but rather different breeds all together.
> 
> Why, may i ask, do you want a "thick strong dominant male"? If you want to compare strengths, the APBT is hands down a much "stronger" breed than the American Bully. Appearance alone doesn't define a dogs working ability so if you want to talk pound for pound a 35 pound APBT is not only "stronger" than a 75 pound AmBully but also much more versatile.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> IMO if you are not passionate you shouldn't own one, not an APBT at least. To me that is like owning a Ferrari and not being passionate about it.


:goodpost:

another good post! You on a roll KM!!


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> explain? please. lol i know the difference i just want the opinion on bose


Bose used to make decent stuff back in the 80's I hear, that was when I was too young to know the difference anyway so I can't say for sure. Like anything else in life, audio equipment all sounds good until you actually run into something good, and Bose ain't it. Bose is a company that relies on it's brand recognition to sell trendy, gimmicky, garbage equipment to people who don't know any better. You ask someone who knows nothing about audio equipment about Bose and they'll say it's awesome. Ask someone who's passionate about sound like I am and you'll get a different story. That's why these bully dogs remind me of Bose. These breeders are selling crappy dogs based off a name people recognize, pit bull, when it's nothing of the sort. Problem is, until someone runs into a real bulldog they think their bully is something special. If you look for it, good audio equipment can be found in the right places, just like good bulldogs. Not sure if this makes sense to anyone other than me lol


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

rob32 said:


> Bose used to make decent stuff back in the 80's I hear, that was when I was too young to know the difference anyway so I can't say for sure. Like anything else in life, audio equipment all sounds good until you actually run into something good, and Bose ain't it. Bose is a company that relies on it's brand recognition to sell trendy, gimmicky, garbage equipment to people who don't know any better. You ask someone who knows nothing about audio equipment about Bose and they'll say it's awesome. Ask someone who's passionate about sound like I am and you'll get a different story. That's why these bully dogs remind me of Bose. These breeders are selling crappy dogs based off a name people recognize, pit bull, when it's nothing of the sort. Problem is, until someone runs into a real bulldog they think their bully is something special. If you look for it, good audio equipment can be found in the right places, just like good bulldogs. Not sure if this makes sense to anyone other than me lol


You make total sense. I use to own an Infiniti and Acura both which had bose and was never really impressed by their sound quality. However, everybody swore by that "name". Your post hit close to home with me man! lol


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

DeJa said:


> Well thanks for everyones advise thks will be my second pitbull an im looking
> For a bully male pitbull...and im aware of papers both dogs are adba registered
> Just like deja...but I jus want a thick strong dominant male...


My guess is that you didn't read or learn anything from the posts in your thread. Did you take anything said to you into consideration? Apparently not.....you are getting a bully and not an APBT. You say you want a strong, thick, dominant male? Dominant...why? Who is he dominating? What are your plans for your male and female? Breeding them? Apparently your mind is set getting your dog off craigslist or hoobly...whatever it is. You still need much more educating after reading your post. Maybe I am wrong but you sound as if you are going through with the purchase and really aren't here to learn. Excuse me if I'm wrong. Don't mean to be harsh just wish you would elaborate a little more in your post.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

NoWuCmEnOwU... said:


> You make total sense. I use to own an Infiniti and Acura both which had bose and was never really impressed by their sound quality. However, everybody swore by that "name". Your post hit close to home with me man! lol


Their car audio is bad too. I have the "premium" Bose soundsystem in my Cadillac and while it's better than the usual factory system, it's still garbage. I just haven't decided to take on the project of buying and installing a better system. I do have a respectable home theater/stereo at home. And I will no longer get any old dog either.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

I just think that if he wants and American Bully, then so be it in his choice, but the place he is wanting to get his American Bully from is not a very great place advertising on craigslist. 

Yes, my American Bully is registered as an APBT, but I knew from the minute I got her what she really was. I don't call her a "pit bull" or an APBT. 

She isn't a PITBULL, and when people ask me if she's a pitbull I say NO she is an AMERICAN BULLY. As everyone in this post has been saying, there are complete differences between the two. Maybe, you need to understand the differences between the two before you get another dog all together... 

Does anyone have pictures to distinguish the differences??? maybe that could be of some help???


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

Found this video and it shows the difference between Amer. Bullies and APBT.

There is a big difference....


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

PRSweetKandi said:


> Real APBT VS American bully - YouTube
> 
> Found this video and it shows the difference between Amer. Bullies and APBT.
> 
> There is a big difference....


the dog at 2:07 ive seen before whos dog is that?

also third post from the top. its got pics and writting explaining a little bit of difference between am bully am staff and apbt. its got nothing more than what any one else has said here anyways but its something http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/37966-making-my-american-pit-bull-terrier-bigger-3.html#post453307


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

Honestly, it looks like some of the dogs from performacekennls... I also thought some of those dogs look familiar... I could be wrong, but I see what you are saying. Just a vid to put in into eye view.... There is a complete difference in the two breeds. lol


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

i dont think i saw any of pks dogs, but i wanna say that the dog was some how related to sadies dog bogart. like in the peds or something but im not for sure. probably wrong but any who.


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## PRSweetKandi (Aug 5, 2011)

Either way... It's a good video I believe LOL. (especially for this thread apparently)


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