# if Cesar Milan panics,...?



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

if a professional dog therapist can't stop the obvious from
happening, what would you do at the dog park, or say a 
stray dog runs up on you while your walking? 
will you be ready to stop it once it starts?
please, share some incite as to what one should do in this
situation.


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

My insite is not having these dogs together and trying to make them something they are not. I have nothing nice to say I am not a ceaser fan.

They get together you grab collars choke them out and drop them, or if you have a break stick and want to take the time use that.

unbelievably STUPID STUPID STUPID having those dogs together without collars.


----------



## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

cmon guys its nothing a simple "pssst" cant solve.


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Just pinch them behind the neck


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

What no break stick? LOL


----------



## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

IMO the lot of them wouldn't even have a clue about simple Pitbull 101. tards


----------



## PerfectPit (Aug 2, 2010)

Unfreaking believable! Talk about stupidity! Too many dogs, no collars, mayhem, no control. Love the statement, "Now there can be a problem."


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I don't understand why CM doesn't carry a break stick seriously why wouldn't anyone who owns a bulldog not have one? It takes a matter of a few seconds to break up a fight with a device that costs under $20.00. The person who leaves their dogs to roam freely all day needs to watch this video LOL ... If no one was there to break that up would have been a dead doggy or two.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

I saw that episode.

The only thing ever good to come out of Cesar Milan is his mantra of exercise, discipline, affection.

Everything else is BS and this episode only reinforces the fact that he's an idiot. 

"This could be a problem."

Wow, and yet you stand by and do nothing? Not even a psst?


----------



## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

If he used a breakstick he would be going against his own methods and it would not look good for him, What? A dog he cant control??


----------



## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I always thought he was asking for trouble. You can not take DA out of a Pit Bull. He makes people think it is the way you raise tham that makes a difference.


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Yeah he doesn't understand that bulldogs are not PACK dogs his methods may very well work on some breeds but not the APBT. I remember this episode that little blue dog was seriously DA too.


----------



## Atlanta Bully Rescue (Nov 11, 2010)

Padlock said:


> if a professional dog therapist can't stop the obvious from happening, what would you do at the dog park, or say a stray dog runs up on you while your walking? will you be ready to stop it once it starts?
> please, share some incite as to what one should do in this situation.


I would never take my dogs to a dog park, this is the best way to break up a dog fight:

Pit Bull Rescue Central



> Breaking Up A Fight
> 
> Pit bulls are terriers and were bred to recognize other dogs as "prey." Simply put, in a fight, the other dog becomes a "rabbit." Terriers grab a hold of their prey and shake. Many pit bulls will instinctively do the same if they get into a scrap with another dog. As a result, breaking up a pit bull fight can be difficult if you don't know what to do, but is easier than other breeds when you do know how to proceed.
> 
> ...


You can order breaksticks through PBRC and the proceeds go to a great charity! Pit Bull Rescue Central


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I saw this episode. I saw that fight right before it was about to happen. 
What I don't get,when Cesar saw what was about to go down,why didn't he do anything quicker.
At least it didn't get as ugly as it could have.


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Xiahko CM has some good methods but he is not above genetics I think his ego prevents him from seeing that. I saw the episode too that dog was highly DA and I just kept asking myself why why why is he trying to force this dog to get along with other dogs. His ego is writing checks his body can't cash. And sure enough genetics kicked in and CM was left trying to break up a dog fight he was ill prepared for.


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Sadie said:


> I don't understand why CM doesn't carry a break stick seriously why wouldn't anyone who owns a bulldog not have one?


I may not own bulldogs but Dumae is more than her fair share of fight. I use to own break sticks. But now I have no issue dropping a dog.

We couldn't get to a break stick the first time Jeremy ( new BF to my yard) and myself had a dog fight. He grabbed that bitch up by the collar choked her and dropped her faster than anything I have ever seen. I flipped out how dare he do that to my dog!

The after math almost no injury... I have seen this dog shred other dogs in seconds. She had no chance here to do that damage and I since then have had 1 other fight both dogs dropped in seconds with barely any damage to each dog. ( same bitch as well....)

This may seem cruel.. But compared to the damage these dogs can do it is effective.

I am not against break sticks at all. But if you don't have one you better be prepared to do what you have to, and not stupid crap like spraying them with water........


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL or playing tug of war with them hitting them with sticks! I feel comfortable using my hands I have done it before my dogs have never bitten me better not either LOL


----------



## Chump (Nov 20, 2010)

I love how they just yank the dogs apart lol! The little pup was basically taking the other dogs lip with it! Ouch! They were really pulling with force too! It was too funny to see them bumble around! It is interesting how all the bulldogs started to join in once the fight started.

This is a prime example of what most don't understand. Bulldogs LIKE to fight! It is fun for them. That being said, I have VERY dog aggressive dogs. I use them for hunting hogs. They all get thrown into the back of a single 4X6 kennel on the back of my ATV trailer. I usually run two black mouth curs, one pit/greyhound mix, one pit/pointer mix and at least two of my pit catch dogs. These dogs are all kenneled together while I am driving, and they all run together when I am hunting.

My best catch dog was CRAZY dog aggressive when she was young. Through intense conditioning I have taught her to behaive. She still is DA, but anytime she starts acting dominant, she immediatly starts looking around for a hammer fist! I don't mess around. I can't have my other dogs getting hurt.

Anyway, I have some funny stories about her though. I was doing some initial training in the hog pens. I thought I was making some progress with her dog aggression. I had one of my cur dogs baying up a hog. I turned my pit loose. She ran in so fast, but instead of catching the hog on the ear she caught the bay dog on the ear and took him down! I had to pry her off and point her towards the hog. My cur was like what the H#lll just happened. That is actually the last time she has done anything like that though. She was just too excited and didn't know where to channel it.

I regularly use a dog park as part of my conditioning routine with young dogs. Anytime I see DA I put a LOT of pressure on them. I don't take older dogs because if she were to fight it could do serious damage to the dogs - and the APBT reputation. I don't think it is a good idea to take an adult pit to the dog park. Even with the best training, they can never be fully trusted - because they LOVE to fight.


----------



## FamilyLinePits (May 18, 2010)

"He makes people think it is the way you raise tham that makes a difference."

Maybe I'm just misinterpreting here, But with Pit Bulls it is ALL about how you raise them. Perhaps for DA, your statement may be true, But as you stated it, It seems as though you believe that if a dog is human aggressive, Than it is the dogs fault, as opposed to the human that made it that way?

If i'm misreading, please correct me, But that is just what I pulled out of your post.

I've seen pit bulls raised outdoors on short heavy chains, And I would be afraid to approach them... I've also seen pit bulls raised indoors like kittens and guess how they act? Like kittens.

As for DA, I have never successfully trained an older dog to get along with other strange older dogs, But I have been able to train all my dogs, regardless of age, to accept new members into our household "pack".... But only if these new members are puppies...
I have 4 dogs in my house ranging from 4 months to 4 years old, But each one came in as a puppy and has learned their position in our family hierarchy. Does this mean I don't expect them ever to fight? No, I still keep bitesticks on hand, not because I don't trust my dogs, But because its better to have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.


----------



## Chump (Nov 20, 2010)

FamilyLinePits said:


> Maybe I'm just misinterpreting here, But with Pit Bulls it is ALL about how you raise them. Perhaps for DA, your statement may be true, But as you stated it, It seems as though you believe that if a dog is human aggressive, Than it is the dogs fault, as opposed to the human that made it that way?
> 
> If i'm misreading, please correct me, But that is just what I pulled out of your post.


I don't want to sound like a jerk, but we don't live in a Disney movie. There are HA dogs that were raised right. They just have the genetic tendency to be HA. The main problem is they weren't culled when they started showing signs of HA.

I always here people saying things like "it is because the dog was kept on a chain....." Or whatever. That is just not true. MANY game dogs are kept on chains. Most of the time when those dogs are stolen it is by someone who just walked up to them and picked them up. These dogs have been strictly selected to not be HA. A lot of people will purchase dobbies to gaurd their pits.

Anyway, it is true you can make some dogs HA by neglect and abuse. It is also true that some dogs are born with the tendency to be HA. Those dogs need to be culled.


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

FamilyLinePits said:


> "He makes people think it is the way you raise tham that makes a difference."
> 
> Maybe I'm just misinterpreting here, *But with Pit Bulls it is ALL about how you raise them.* Perhaps for DA, your statement may be true, But as you stated it, It seems as though you believe that if a dog is human aggressive, Than it is the dogs fault, as opposed to the human that made it that way?
> 
> ...


You are kidding right? Yes raising ANY DOG takes loves and compassion and a bond that no other human can break BUT its not just this breed.

You are not going to train DA out of any dog no matter the breed... You are also not going to train HA out of any dog no matter the breed... You can subside both of these actions with specific training but it is never just gone.

I am glad you trust your dogs... Dont over trust them though... My two current dogs have never had an issue BUT they are still young... I imagine that sometime in the future I will have to step into a fight... UNLESS I stay as diligent as I am now...

Dont misinterpret your dogs acceptance of a pup into your home as a free pass for a life filled with sugarplums and hersheys kisses... You did not train them to accept anything... they realised that the puppies were there to stay and they may not like it but your the leader and your word goes... It doesnt mean they even like the pup...

Oh and raising a dog that is chained but is well rounded in exercise and socialization is no different then raising a dog inside who is well rounded as well... It is in the amount of time you spend with your dog, the amount of exercise they get, the amount of socialization they have and the ability to read your dogs actions in any situation.


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

I have had my share of breaking up fights... I have used a break stick before and its the easiest way but there were a couple times I did not have one available to me... In those case those dogs got grabbed by the collar and the collar twisted until air was cut off. let me tell you a dog who cant breath WILL let go...

There was an instance when I was about 15... We had moved to Georgia for about seven months (dad was military)... My Staffie "Lady" had never seen cows and horses before she was a city dog... We lived on 14 acres... The neighbor raised cattle... She got out one morning and I went out to get her and couldnt find her... I looked way out in the neighbors land and she was hanging from the neck of a young bull with all the other cattle surrounding her... I jumped in my dad's truck and drove into their land (we had a gate to their land for whatever stupid reason but I am glad that it was there) I am in a truck with 100 head of cattle (including steers) surrounding her and pushing them aside with the truck... I tied a rope (forgot her leash) to her collar and drove... The collar started to choke her so she let go... As soon as I got far enough from the cattle I stopped and got her in the truck...

The most messed up part is that was the day that I decided that I would never own another breed...

If my dog has heart enough to go into a field of a bunch of cattle and attack one they have heart enough to share my bed...


----------



## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

[/QUOTE]I've seen pit bulls raised outdoors on short heavy chains, And I would be afraid to approach them... I've also seen pit bulls raised indoors like kittens and guess how they act? Like kittens.


> This is how it goes down in the hood and that's how we get all these attacks. Rarely do you see any attacks in more middle class areas. We had 20 pits on my block growing up and they were all backyard dogs. My next door neighbor didn't chain hers up and they slept in a stripped stolen car in the overgrown backyard. My mom fed them every day, so they liked her, but I couldn't get 5 feet from the fence and they wanted to kill me. Everyone in the hood also cropped their own dogs ears with scissors and crazy glue.
> 
> My mom died in Feb. so I don't have to go down there anymore. I have seen both sides of the pitbull and it is 100% how you raise them. DA is a whole different story, as even the best behaved Pit can have his moment. NEVER be lulled into a false sense of my dog is well behaved and won't do anything to your dog.


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Sadie said:


> I don't understand why CM doesn't carry a break stick seriously why wouldn't anyone who owns a bulldog not have one? It takes a matter of a few seconds to break up a fight with a device that costs under $20.00. The person who leaves their dogs to roam freely all day needs to watch this video LOL ... If no one was there to break that up would have been a dead doggy or two.


bingo bango,#1 rule,you either have A stick,or understand the method of thumbing.



MY MIKADO said:


> I always thought he was asking for trouble. You can not take DA out of a Pit Bull. He makes people think it is the way you raise tham that makes a difference.


fools exist,thank God for those who just rely on the exp. of others.you got folks who will take someone with exp. word for gospel.and then,the faction who believes they can rewrite genetics.



Sadie said:


> Yeah he doesn't understand that bulldogs are not PACK dogs his methods may very well work on some breeds but not the APBT. I remember this episode that little blue dog was seriously DA too.


pits are pits,he's relying on his opinion that they can change,and heres his err in video form.



Sadie said:


> Xiahko CM has some good methods but he is not above genetics I think his ego prevents him from seeing that. I saw the episode too that dog was highly DA and I just kept asking myself why why why is he trying to force this dog to get along with other dogs. His ego is writing checks his body can't cash. And sure enough genetics kicked in and CM was left trying to break up a dog fight he was ill prepared for.


:goodpost:


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Alrighy then... 

Yeah, I have been in this situation, by myself and with help, usually I am doing it all as I move so fast, have learned not to panic, and basically drunken master them dogs apart and away from each other like a raging bear myself, enough so that when my dogs do get into kennel fights and accidents like preview, LOL (chuckles) well, I guess you'd have to see it filmed. Well you name I've experienced it (most likely) and many times come to mind, so bear with me for the ride on the wheel spinning in my head, LOL.. 

First of all Im scruffing the two dogs boxing and thrusting the obvious third wheel, down with my foot, on the withdraw forcing a knee thrust to the dogs scruffed, holarin come grab a dog... get over here and grab a dog.. even people who have been in it longer than me just kinda paniced and acted like OH a DOG fight DAMM.. While I was scruffing and plucking dogs like they were an alabama tick. That the other thing I am not afraid to do, I can't swing as hard as a bull and know that anything I do is like sparring with gloves compared to the damage they can do to each other. I also know that being the ALPHA does work, and in my yard strange dogs are allowed from time to time when our direct neighbors dogs get loose and my dogs stay cool, but if a dog that is obvious feral comes about, LOL well they treat em like any coydog or coyote. Back to the topic at hand. It bothers me not to start plucking and flinging dogs.. snag a up and fling it towards a door, crate, chain.. If no ones helping you imprivize<spelling?) from using a tree to split the dogs while scruffed to carrrying them into the pond and dunking them like two brothers, usually right after I jump in I get it stopped and the dogs are cool with each other and more worried about not being outta line, you know cause Im alpha.. I used to have break sticks every where, now I can make one quick in a hurry outta any limb with blunt break by stepping on it, and then using the leash to tie on to a stable structure while using the stick to pluck and then dog bein scruffed they pop right loose.. But my first DF was Hooch and Turok on my lap in my bed at 3 am in the morning.. NEVER TRUST A PITBULL NOT TO FIGHT .. Hooch raised Turok and I was green and knew I knew what I was doin, LOL.. yeah......... I wrapped them up in the blanket and dropped some bows, between them, rollin one oneway the other the other, and popped them dogs apart as fast as I shite myself awakening to the explosion on my bed. .. Bitches usually gang up faster than males, males kinda wait usually for the obvious alpha to show itself, but of course not always. I have had some bad fallouts, if the dogs aren't seperated quickly, I MEAN QUICK, someones gonna get strung the fk up, and I mean with severe life threatening injuries. This is why its important to know ALWAYS scruff the DOGS, thats HELPS give you the position mentally and physically to secure and seperate the dogs. Having break/parting sticks us not a bad idea. I actually recommend any ABPT owner have at least one or two. 

But this could have been so stopped so fast, 3 people 3 dogs, 3 scruff and holds, the men could have lifted the scruffed fighting dogs while the lady scruffs the dog looking for a bite. I agree having HA dogs doesnt help. This was after that dog had been to his dog training facility. That should have happened first so that the people can be properly educated how to seperate APBTs when fighting.. becuase THE DOGS WILL SHAKE UNITL THEY CANT.. ITS BEST TO INCAPACITATE THEIR DAMAGE FACTOR BY LIFTING THEM UP AIR BOUND SO THE BODIES REABSORB THEIR OWN SHAKING VELOCITY KINDA LIKE JELLO. So to me its just important to know your more superior than the dog in the mind and it is in the mind these all dogs especially these dogs, and working sled dogs as well, if your not alpha in your mind and know you are in the situation the situation will show every weakness and your dogs possibly yourselves can be injured. 

Scruff, Pluck, and Fling.. (Imprivize as Needed) on a humane level 

Parting sticks are considered pariphinellia by some states, counties, and such. . Probably why CM doesn't use one. Ignorance.


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

FH,it's good to have exp. with game dogs,ain't it?


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

nice to see this turned into a healthy discussion of the possibilities your dogs will 
end up on the other side of violence. some get lulled into everyday life and forget
whats sitting on the couch. always be ready and stay calm.
these ain't little foo foo dogs, they are as tuff as nails and are
built to dish it and take it. keeping calm,... assessing your surroundings
is essential in breaking it up as fast and as efficient as possible to reduce 
risk of an injury that would be a monetary setback in this poor economy.
in my yard i have several leashes on my back deck and fences near my
dogs houses to use as a tie off. i also have break sticks hanging from the 
rear of the houses.
this is as pro active as one can get. I've been on both sides of the scenario dozens of times... 
either my dog broke it's chain-spot, or a stray came into the yard. it happens,...
just be ready when it does.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Yes it is.. =D I love it, keeps us on our toes.. Wouldnt trade these lil dogs for anything else.


----------



## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Padlock said:


> in my yard i have *several leaches*


Excuse my ignorance, but the amount of time it would take for a leach to drain enough blood to weaken the dog isn't really worth the wait is it? 

Sorry, couldn't resist.  Carry on.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Genetics plays a part and so does socialization.

From the time he was a pup and could first go to a dog park, I took Kane. Made him get familiar with dogs of all shapes and sizes, of all personalities and play styles. He's never met a dog he hasn't liked. He's learned that if a dog begins to get pushy with him, and his avoidance maneuvers (looking away, walking away to sniff the ground, etc) aren't telling the other dog to back off, then he can come running to me and I'll take care of it. He doesn't have to get pushy back or aggressive with them to tell them to back off. On the flip side, he's also learned that if he starts becoming too rough in play, he gets disciplined and, at worst, taken out of the park, which he hates. I wholeheartedly believe that this critical socialization can make my dog less likely to be dog-aggressive. He's been around other dogs to learn the important dog body language he can use to communicate with other dogs to AVOID fights.

If I were to take that mantra of not having him around other dogs because he's just going to fight with them anyways, then heck yeah he's going to be more likely to! He's never been around other dog's to learn the body signals they give that can be used to avoid fights, he's never gotten familiar with other dogs to think that they're not a threat or something to be suspicious of and on guard with.

Does this mean he'll forever like dogs? No. He's still got his genetics which may "turn on" at maturity and he might become pickier with which dogs he likes or not like dogs at all. I'm prepared for that.

But I'm not going to throw in the towel and say, _Oh, well, he's an APBT, and he's only ever going to hate other dogs_, either.

He's not just his breed -- he's also a dog.


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

heres the best I can say,it's A repeat.
"never trust an APBT to not fight".


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

wild_deuce03 said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but the amount of time it would take for a leach to drain enough blood to weaken the dog isn't really worth the wait is it?
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.  Carry on.


:rofl:

lol thanks for that...i also corrected clam (calm).


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

k8nkane said:


> Genetics plays a part and so does socialization.
> 
> From the time he was a pup and could first go to a dog park, I took Kane. Made him get familiar with dogs of all shapes and sizes, of all personalities and play styles. He's never met a dog he hasn't liked. He's learned that if a dog begins to get pushy with him, and his avoidance maneuvers (looking away, walking away to sniff the ground, etc) aren't telling the other dog to back off, then he can come running to me and I'll take care of it. He doesn't have to get pushy back or aggressive with them to tell them to back off. On the flip side, he's also learned that if he starts becoming too rough in play, he gets disciplined and, at worst, taken out of the park, which he hates. I wholeheartedly believe that this critical socialization can make my dog less likely to be dog-aggressive. He's been around other dogs to learn the important dog body language he can use to communicate with other dogs to AVOID fights.
> 
> ...


this is were we differ from our knowledge and experience with the real
abpt. i will touch lightly on this as i was told to leave the bully owners alone.
(which is why we desperately need to have a definitive separation and not have the two different breeds with one name).this is the farthest thing from the truth in the real realm of bulldogs. you're bully genes are watered down, hence he's not really an apbt.
if others feel the need to chime in an be able to show some tact,...feel free.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Just one more dog evovled from the "pit bulldog" aka the American Pit Bull Terrier, the only dog in the world to harbour the title pit for it's so called emaculate function in the [] thats just one more thing it does better than any other breed.. I agree..


----------



## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

k8nkane said:


> Genetics plays a part and so does socialization.
> 
> From the time he was a pup and could first go to a dog park, I took Kane. Made him get familiar with dogs of all shapes and sizes, of all personalities and play styles. He's never met a dog he hasn't liked. He's learned that if a dog begins to get pushy with him, and his avoidance maneuvers (looking away, walking away to sniff the ground, etc) aren't telling the other dog to back off, then he can come running to me and I'll take care of it. He doesn't have to get pushy back or aggressive with them to tell them to back off. On the flip side, he's also learned that if he starts becoming too rough in play, he gets disciplined and, at worst, taken out of the park, which he hates. I wholeheartedly believe that this critical socialization can make my dog less likely to be dog-aggressive. He's been around other dogs to learn the important dog body language he can use to communicate with other dogs to AVOID fights.
> 
> ...


And unfortunately, if his genetics decide to kick in at a dog park, you and him will just become part of the statistics used against all owners of pit type breeds.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Unless I misunderstood you, I'm not a bully owner. I own an APBT, but no, he's not a gamebred APBT. And that is why I treat him more like a dog than others like you who have gamebred APBTs and need to take that into consideration. If the only 'real' APBT, for you, is a gamebred and/or proven APBT, then that is a shame. Because my dog has no less heart than any other APBT just because he's more 'pet'bull than 'pit'bull.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

A dog doesn't attack out of nowhere. There are always signs. If there's a dog at the park that is bullying others or that isn't under vocal control of their owner, we simply leave.


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

a dog wont attack out of nowhere? lol
i wish you would have met my dog Louie.
he would bait dogs by sitting completely still
like a rock...as soon as a dog came within reach
to investigate this odd animal.
BOOM...parties on!


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

But that's your sign right there. Your dog getting tense and then freezing. That's as big of a sign as a growl or hackles raised. In fact, that's the scariest aggression there is, IMO. smart that is. lol.


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

pit bulls have lost the use of all threat display as they fight for 
pleasure and not valuables IE: food, breeding rights,territory, ect...
all you get is tail wagging...alot of fight crazy dogs scream,
but it's out of frustration from not being able to get at it's intended
quarry. old dog men would view any of those signs as cur signs...such
as teeth flashing and snarling, raised hair and stiff legged circling...all
are but non existent with the apbt.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Padlock said:


> pit bulls have lost the use of all threat display as they fight for
> pleasure and not valuables IE: food, breeding rights,territory, ect...
> all you get is tail wagging...alot of fight crazy dogs scream,
> but it's out of frustration from not being able to get at it's intended
> ...


That's really interesting and that explains something that was said in another thread for me. Basically, there's no point in threatening another dog off when you don't want to threaten that dog off. That's really very interesting.

Thanks, that's actually giving me a lot to think about.


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Padlock said:


> old dog men would view any of those signs as cur signs...such as teeth flashing and snarling, raised hair and stiff legged circling...all
> are but non existent with the apbt.


gotta love the dog that just sits in the kennel and patiently awaits the wash.


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

wild_deuce03 said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but the amount of time it would take for a leach to drain enough blood to weaken the dog isn't really worth the wait is it?
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.  Carry on.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I am literally crying hahahahahahahahaha

It took me like three minutes to stop laughing enough to write this...

Ok Ok I am Ok carry on


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

^^ good posts.. Plural, LOL


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

k8nkane said:


> Genetics plays a part and so does socialization.
> 
> From the time he was a pup and could first go to a dog park, I took Kane. Made him get familiar with dogs of all shapes and sizes, of all personalities and play styles. He's never met a dog he hasn't liked. He's learned that if a dog begins to get pushy with him, and his avoidance maneuvers (looking away, walking away to sniff the ground, etc) aren't telling the other dog to back off, then he can come running to me and I'll take care of it. He doesn't have to get pushy back or aggressive with them to tell them to back off. On the flip side, he's also learned that if he starts becoming too rough in play, he gets disciplined and, at worst, taken out of the park, which he hates. I wholeheartedly believe that this critical socialization can make my dog less likely to be dog-aggressive. He's been around other dogs to learn the important dog body language he can use to communicate with other dogs to AVOID fights.
> 
> ...


Are we talking dog park here?

I am glad to hear that your dog likes every dog he meets but isnt he still pretty young from what I remember... You have a long way to go to be putting this much trust in him...


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

k8nkane said:


> A dog doesn't attack out of nowhere. There are always signs. If there's a dog at the park that is bullying others or that isn't under vocal control of their owner, we simply leave.


It is going to seem like I am picking on you today and I am sorry for that ahead of time...

NO THERE ARE NOT ALWAYS SIGNS..

I had an American Bulldog and two APBTs and a Italian Greyhound who had all lived together with no problems for three years... One day they are all laying in the living room and I am watching tv... They are ALL SLEEPING and out of the blue the American Bulldog gets up and goes to walk to the door to go out and instead attacks the Italian Greyhound who is still sleeping... This in turn sets both the APBTs off and I have three large dogs fighting over a 10 pound field goal dog... I was by myself and had it broken up in a matter of about two minutes but it was too late for the Greyhound...


----------



## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> I am literally crying hahahahahahahahaha
> 
> ...


I'll be here all week......


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

wild_deuce03 said:


> I'll be here all week......


But today is Friday, what am I gonna do over the weekend? lmao


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> Are we talking dog park here?
> 
> I am glad to hear that your dog likes every dog he meets but isnt he still pretty young from what I remember... You have a long way to go to be putting this much trust in him...


Yes, he is. He'll be a year on the 27th -- and I know that helps a lot. That he's still a puppy. That's why I take every dog encounter as a new and separate experience.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

yeah,, APBTs and dog parks,, LOL I'd rather go to the park or the lake or open field, these days people bring their dogs out usually a pup now adult from previous litters and we will all run the whole group as a pack, nuttin like a pack of APBTs that we have to keep focused on any task so they don't get bored or eyeball each other. I have one dog that is phenom in public, dog park, rodeos, whatever.. Hoagie.. he doesn't have great house manners, but that lil dog is so reserve he has no sign of fire until bit or right at that precipace and them he's a quite lil ball of fury, all 35lbs, there are JKRT almost his size that consistantly want to start sht, but Hoagie does real good, of course I flip lil nickle weight rocks at his head to let him know Im right there, dont fk up.. LOL In GENERAL I don't promote dog parks for APBT owners.. If your on top of your game thats different, but to many ppl with APBTs and no sense.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> It is going to seem like I am picking on you today and I am sorry for that ahead of time...
> 
> NO THERE ARE NOT ALWAYS SIGNS..
> 
> I had an American Bulldog and two APBTs and a Italian Greyhound who had all lived together with no problems for three years... One day they are all laying in the living room and I am watching tv... They are ALL SLEEPING and out of the blue the American Bulldog gets up and goes to walk to the door to go out and instead attacks the Italian Greyhound who is still sleeping... This in turn sets both the APBTs off and I have three large dogs fighting over a 10 pound field goal dog... I was by myself and had it broken up in a matter of about two minutes but it was too late for the Greyhound...


I don't feel like you are picking on me.  The only way to learn is by discussing things.

I'm sorry for your loss and I stand corrected -- most times there are signs.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> yeah,, APBTs and dog parks,, LOL I'd rather go to the park or the lake or open field, these days people bring their dogs out usually a pup now adult from previous litters and we will all run the whole group as a pack, nuttin like a pack of APBTs that we have to keep focused on any task so they don't get bored or eyeball each other. I have one dog that is phenom in public, dog park, rodeos, whatever.. Hoagie.. he doesn't have great house manners, but that lil dog is so reserve he has no sign of fire until bit or right at that precipace and them he's a quite lil ball of fury, all 35lbs, there are JKRT almost his size that consistantly want to start sht, but Hoagie does real good, of course I flip lil nickle weight rocks at his head to let him know Im right there, dont fk up.. LOL *In GENERAL I don't promote dog parks for APBT owners.. If your on top of your game thats different, but to many ppl with APBTs and no sense.*


I think a very important part of dog ownership is to know your dog and what they are most likely to do.


----------



## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> But today is Friday, what am I gonna do over the weekend? lmao


Well, I happen to be particularly proud of that one, so maybe it'll carry you through the weekend. LOL!


----------



## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

k8nkane said:


> I think a very important part of dog ownership is to know your dog and what they are most likely to do.


I agree with you that knowing your dog is key, but at the same time, you're bound to drop your guard at some point (don't mean that in a bad way, no one is perfect). And that one time could be all it takes for Kane to end the little ankle biter that is instigating. Just not worth it IMO and I thought that even before I got Athena.


----------



## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Cesar should know better he owns a pitbull & being so knowledgeable about dogs & their 'tells'. And right at the moment he said 'this could be a problem' 0:31 seconds in - the dogs were challenging each other & should have immediately been separated. >.<


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

wild_deuce03 said:


> Well, I happen to be particularly proud of that one, so maybe it'll carry you through the weekend. LOL!


I will try and make it last lol


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Lex's Guardian said:


> Cesar should know better he owns a pitbull & being so knowledgeable about dogs & their 'tells'. And right at the moment he said 'this could be a problem' 0:31 seconds in - the dogs were challenging each other & should have immediately been separated. >.<


:goodpost: yep yep by his own standards.. let alone any experienced DA breed or APBT owner


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

k8nkane: All I am going to say (since I assume you have been brow beaten for dog parks already) is that it is not necessarily your dog you have to worry about starting a fight but do not ever believe he wont finish one if pushed far enough...

I do not do dog parks because 99% of people who take their dogs (big or small) to the dog park are there to socialize with other owners not to spend time with their dog. If they are socializing then do you think they are paying much attention to their dogs? Nope!!

I did not even take my American Bulldogs or Chow to the dog park... It only takes one second for a Rottie with an attitude to pick a fight with Kane then 15 other dogs are instantly going to jump in... And many pet owners are not willing to stick there hand in a group of fighting dogs.


----------



## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> k8nkane: All I am going to say (since I assume you have been brow beaten for dog parks already) is that it is not necessarily your dog you have to worry about starting a fight but do not ever believe he wont finish one if pushed far enough...
> 
> I do not do dog parks because 99% of people who take their dogs (big or small) to the dog park are there to socialize with other owners not to spend time with their dog. If they are socializing then do you think they are paying much attention to their dogs? Nope!!
> 
> I did not even take my American Bulldogs or Chow to the dog park... It only takes one second for a Rottie with an attitude to pick a fight with Kane then 15 other dogs are instantly going to jump in... And many pet owners are not willing to stick there hand in a group of fighting dogs.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Thank you for your input -- and everyone else's. This thread has given me a lot to think about in terms of doing what is safest for Kane. I love the discussions that come up on this site.


----------



## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> :goodpost: yep yep by his own standards.. let alone any experienced DA breed or APBT owner


I get ppl make mistakes, but with how experienced he is. His instinctual reaction should have been to intervene at that moment.


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Lex's Guardian said:


> I get ppl make mistakes, but with how experienced he is. His instinctual reaction should have been to intervene at that moment.


I think this is his problem... Hes not experienced!! He has gotten lucky for a few years having several DA dogs that are medium DA... That is why he did not think fast enough to control that situation.


----------



## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

Maybe he wanted a fight? Makes good TV, and then when the two dogs are together later in the show, voilla, look how well they get along. The great Ceaser really is the best. Then next week when no cameras are around, one dog is dead.


----------



## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> I think this is his problem... Hes not experienced!! He has gotten lucky for a few years having several DA dogs that are medium DA... That is why he did not think fast enough to control that situation.


He verbally reacted to the situation before it even happened... While others around him were 'la-dee-dah'...


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Thats the thing he really thinks that a verbal command is gonna stop a bully breed from DA and a fight? How much can he really know?


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Lex's Guardian said:


> Cesar should know better he owns a pitbull & being so knowledgeable about dogs & their 'tells'. And right at the moment he said 'this could be a problem' 0:31 seconds in - the dogs were challenging each other & should have immediately been separated. >.<


The issue is not the he doesn't know better because he does .. His EGO is inflated that is what is going to be his downfall with this breed. No serious bulldog owner/ Fancier can respect a man who thinks he is above genetics. CM and his methods are not above what's been bred into these dogs from the beginning of time. And he will always have issues with this breed because of his lack of respect for the breeds genetics.


----------



## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

He's and idiot and just wants everyone to


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

fishinrob said:


> Maybe he wanted a fight? Makes good TV, and then when the two dogs are together later in the show, voilla, look how well they get along. The great Ceaser really is the best. Then next week when no cameras are around, one dog is dead.


i concur,...pandemonium makes for great TV. to his credit
he did know it was about to go down, and he did not hesitate
to grab a dog as soon as it happened. for that he gets alittle respect.
it was ALL the other people in dismay and not knowing what to do,...that
will be the norm at a dog park. screaming, pulling, kicking, freaking out,
finger pointing, yelling obscenities, then the humans start fighting....oh yeah,
been there done that. guy started kicking my dog after his ran up without a leash...
i knocked him out then let my dog have some payback on his clumber spaniel. 
homie don't play that.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Padlock said:


> i concur,...pandemonium makes for great TV. to his credit
> he did know it was about to go down, and he did not hesitate
> to grab a dog as soon as it happened. for that he gets alittle respect.
> it was ALL the other people in dismay and not knowing what to do,...that
> ...


:goodpost::rofl: he definitely looks like a lil kid that knows a firecracker is about to explode.. :rofl:


----------



## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

That was the first time I saw or heard of that I am not a CM follower I belive he puts some CS into the IDIOTS who have little chiwawas that run their lifes and crazy dogs who just have problems with whos boss. the problems I see in this clip is that damn blue and white dogs being so hype and the blue dog not puttin up with its BS. In that situtaion (if it was my 7 dogs runnin round) and one was actin like that white and blue dog (jumping & being an a*s) thats where problems do start. We (knock on wood) have done well so far. I know how fights start and ECT and I never say it will not happen or that my dogs are diffrent. for us it is all about payin attention and stopping ANYTHING before its a problem. If I was CM when he said "thers gonna be a problem" it would been a swit tap on the head with a break stick for the dog w/o a collar and pullin back on the one with one. By allowing them to just go at it, it will only get worse and not punishing them for it (I didnt see the rest of the vid so idk what happend) I just know that when my friends dogs used to quarrel it was always eaiser to kick them or to hit them with somthing then to spend 15days with a hurtin dog. but all this is JMO.


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

google is your friend Let me google that for you


----------



## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

HAHA yeah.. sorry. (not curb stomp their head or chests or sumtin) just nudge them with your foot. "kick" i guess is not the right word. SorrY!


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

don't be sorry...some dogs need a kick...so do alot of people.
fear last longer than love. fact.


----------



## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

Haha I know about 20 people id kick. I only know 1 dog id kick. So this is more of a love kick to stop the escilation of a fight.


----------



## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Padlock said:


> don't be sorry...some dogs need a kick...so do alot of people.
> *fear last longer than love.* fact.


You know I actually have to agree with this statement in bold. Being brought up by my father was not easy, Ihave not talked to him in over 10 years, have no desire too, anywayz, I do not love him, but I will always fear him. So yes true statement


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

i can relate, i haven't talked to my dad in 20 years.
it's not out of fear, it's due to me not respecting
him. but thats another story for another forum.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

That may be true but I'd rather a dog listen to me out of love than out of fear for being punished for doing something wrong. I'm not saying I've never punished my dog for being a complete idiot, but still.


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

your dog is innately suppose to fear the pack leader.
they love you because they fear you. this is dog
101.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

That is where we will have to agree to disagree.

And I misspoke -- I shouldn't have said "love" in this context. I should've said "respect". I want my dog to listen to me out of respect, not because it fears my punishment.


----------



## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

yeah deff when I yell my dogs name or any of their names and they look at me I know its cause they respect me to stop what they are doing to focus on me. ?


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

your dog fearing you (just as your child should) will
absolutely save it's life when they are potentially in harms way.

fear is absolutely essential in acquiring this reaction to a stern
voice. you don't need to beat your dog but you do need to get
your point accross...a good show of threat and dominance is
usually enough to make a dog piss itself, and that it true submission.

in my own practice i usually but heads with the dogs when they are in
there adolescence stage (about 5-9 months) and are showing obstinacy to my authority.
i will grab there scruff on each side of the neck, pinning the
dog to the ground with force, and if i don't get the desired reaction then a bite
on the nose always centers them into submission. some dogs need a harder bite that others.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Say, hypothetically speaking, that my dog escapes and runs towards the busy road in front of my house.

Why would the dog run TO me, away from the busy road, if it fears ME and my punishment for it bolting out of the house?

If I've done something wrong, because kids will be kids and dogs will be dogs, why would I want to interact with my parent/owner in any way, when I know that their response to my mistake will be punishment?

I'm not saying some punishment is not effective. I'm just saying that I don't want my relationship with my dog to be based more on the punishment aspect than on the positive aspect. A dog is more willing to work with you and listen to you when the majority of its experiences with you are positive, "good things happen when I listen to my owner"-type stuff. I suggest you google "positive dog training" to read up on it and the myriad of studies that have proven this true.


----------



## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

yeah ... well see we have 8 acers. We have NO fence. so all my dogs listen fairly well for me to be able to control all 7 outside at once. Mainly because I work with them individually all the time then in pairs and mix the pairs and then sometimes in 3s and 4s and we all are one disfuncinal pack but living 20feet from a main highway and haveing an interstae run over my property its tricky but what is life without challanges? aye>!  well this is off topic so im going to stop. But DA is not always a bad thing and no I do not take my dogs to dog parks except to sit along the outside fence and practice stacking and commands with other dogs in sight. the other people leave me alone and I leave them alone. It's not that my dogs are DA really it's that I would never put them in the postion to put up with some of the crazy, WEIRD, unstable dogs in the fence. and the STUPID OWNERS who CAN not control their dogs.


----------



## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Padlock said:


> i can relate, i haven't talked to my dad in 20 years.
> it's not out of fear, it's due to me not respecting
> him. but thats another story for another forum.


mine is out of fear and not respecting him, he is not worth me to even talk about him. So yes some other time perhaps, lol.



Padlock said:


> your dog is innately suppose to fear the pack leader.
> they love you because they fear you. this is dog
> 101.





Padlock said:


> your dog fearing you (just as your child should) will
> absolutely save it's life when they are potentially in harms way.
> 
> fear


I have to agree with both of these quotes as well. Dogs in the wild fear the pack leader but have a healthy respect for them. nothing wrong with this. And the secodn quote is true as well, as my niece will tell you, she has been caught a few times doing something, the oldest one mind you, and remembered what happened and thought about the consequences of what would happen if I found out, lol, not hte parents, me, cause they fear and respect me but not hteir parents.



truepits92 said:


> yeah deff when I yell my dogs name or any of their names and they look at me I know its cause they respect me to stop what they are doing to focus on me. ?


----------



## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

I do punish my dogs. they know when they are BAD DOGS and they focus more on me when they are diciplined. We are not saying for them to out right fear you but for them to have fear in a sence of respect.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

If you're simply saying fear = respect than I'm still going to have to disagree.

In my own experience, when I used many of the same methods Padlock mentions, that damaged my relationship with my dog. He actively avoided me and wanted nothing to do with me, and actually became defensive back to me. Padlock will say that is a cur dog  and I agree, but still -- that is my dog and the point is to use the training and discipline methods that work for YOUR dog and YOUR relationship with that dog.

I just don't want people to think that the only way to have a good relationship with your dog is to use punishment-only methods.


----------



## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

It is not the only method katie, I will agree but I do agree with what Padlock is saying, I am alla bout positive reinforcement, but there are those dogs that need hard handling, or the fear tactic. Not all dogs are the same and I have raised all my dogs the same way and none of them have ever really feared me, just have a healthy respect cause I feed them and they know I have thumbs and can master them so to speak.


----------



## truepits92 (Nov 23, 2010)

HeHeHe Yeah LOVE THE THUMBS COMMENT!!!  I dont beat my dogs in any fourm of the word. but I think hes not saying that hes saying that a dog should respect you and to a point fear you as the leaser of the pack IDK all my dogs are FAIRLY well rounded. and they get their fair shares of slaps and boots from me. and they act like aholes to everyone else in the house cause they let them jump all over them and get all in their face with kisses. Im not mean but I make my dogs stay down and stay away from me pretty much untill I invite them into my space and such.


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

a punishment or correction is only done when you feel it's
needed. it's not done with frequency, but it does need to
be reinforced from time to time. (and i use the same method as stated above)
when the dogs were pups they needed you for comfort and food. those ingrained
tendencies will always stay intact as long as you're not some violent nut job who
kicks his dogs upside down because they walked past you. there is a ying yang to
all things. but the point is to stay consistent with praise and correction.
shy dogs on the other hand,...throw all this out the window as it will not work.
these methods are for stable dogs with no shy behavior... shy dogs are a tricky endeavor. 
it's always one step forward then ten steps back when trust/dominance is being asserted.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

apbtmom76 said:


> It is not the only method katie, I will agree but I do agree with what Padlock is saying, I am alla bout positive reinforcement, but there are those dogs that need hard handling, or the fear tactic. Not all dogs are the same and I have raised all my dogs the same way and none of them have ever really feared me, just have a healthy respect cause I feed them and they know I have thumbs and can master them so to speak.


Then, I will agree with you.  There are definitely some days when I've given Kane a good smack for just being an all-around, adolescent butt. I just don't think, personally speaking, that should be the basis of your relationship.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

LOL.

Ok then. After all this discussion and eventual clarification, then I do agree with you Padlock.


----------



## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

And Katie you are right, so yes we agree but disagree and agree with others, physical punishment is not hte only way to deal with a dog, but it is in a dog's nature to fear=respect the pack leader.


----------



## bluefamily (Aug 8, 2007)

I agree that the only good thing CM has going for him is the mantra of discipline excercise and love..or whatever it is....Any knowledgable bulldog owner would have known a rumble was fixing to happen....But NO they HAD to KEEP TALKING AMONGST THEMSELVES NOT PAYING 100% ATTENTION to the DOGS!...BASIC BASIC BASIC!! (yes I am yelling)...stupid idiots...


----------



## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

Familyline, i hate to rate my own thread but you need to go read the thread on tethering dogs.


It is very very rare that i feel the need to physically correct any of the dogs i have had, most of them go to water with a raised voice and a stern look, i think anything physical would just be too much and may even get them fearing too much.
A friend of mine had a fila and i swear this thing loved to be kicked. It would play up and after a couple of yells it would get a thrashing and i swear this dog loved it, maybee as it was a form of attention and it didnt get much but it realy did like it, but different breed different mentality.
Bulldogs seem to thrive so much on our contact that they tend to be easy to train and take negativity towards their actions to heart.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

junkyard said:


> most of them go to water with a raised voice and a stern look, i think anything physical would just be too much and may even get them fearing too much.
> Bulldogs seem to thrive so much on our contact that they tend to be easy to train and take negativity towards their actions to heart.


thats the way kane is with me usually--most of the time a verbal correction is enough to have him straightening his act out. but he has his days when he decides it's "Be a Pain in th Butt° day and he ignores my verbal corrections because he doesnt care. thats where you have to make sure your punishment is just enough to get them back on track and not fearing you too much--which is what i thought padlock was advocating and why i disagreed with him.


----------



## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

Like everyone else noticed, it was easy to see that coming just from body language a stares

I argee with some of the ideals he has. However some with our breeds have to be forgotten. Also as someone said before cm is not above pitbull breeds grnetics


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

00 S/C Lightning said:


> Like everyone else noticed, it was easy to see that coming just from body language a stares
> 
> I argee with some of the ideals he has. However some with our breeds have to be forgotten. Also as someone said before cm is not above pitbull breeds grnetics


yup... yup... ^ what he said.. I use wolf logic, with my crew which is very similar to the CM method only more archaic, LOL.


----------



## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

apbtmom76 said:


> You know I actually have to agree with this statement in bold. Being brought up by my father was not easy, Ihave not talked to him in over 10 years, have no desire too, anywayz, I do not love him, but I will always fear him. So yes true statement


IDK - I have to disagree... My father was the same way I feared him up until I started hating him. Now I just look at him as a joke. Time's to precious to spend fearing



k8nkane said:


> If you're simply saying fear = respect than I'm still going to have to disagree.
> 
> In my own experience, when I used many of the same methods Padlock mentions, that damaged my relationship with my dog. He actively avoided me and wanted nothing to do with me, and actually became defensive back to me. Padlock will say that is a cur dog  and I agree, but still -- that is my dog and the point is to use the training and discipline methods that work for YOUR dog and YOUR relationship with that dog.
> 
> I just don't want people to think that the only way to have a good relationship with your dog is to use punishment-only methods.


This discussion is reminding me of that moment in Donnie Darko with that school project based on Fear & Love when he flipped on the teacher... Great scene, LoL






I always thought this teacher made a good example of the irrational lemmings - that for whatever reason... Lead societies thought process.


----------



## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

If you read all of it I am not saying that the dog needs to fear just have a healthy respect for you, period, and yes I too hate my father but have no intentions of ever speakin to him again. But you are correct about time being to precious to waste on being angry or hating someone or something. Way to precious


----------



## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

apbtmom76 said:


> If you read all of it I am not saying that the dog needs to fear just have a healthy respect for you, period, and yes I too hate my father but have no intentions of ever speakin to him again. But you are correct about time being to precious to waste on being angry or hating someone or something. Way to precious


Agreed, healthy respect & discipline is necessity but I think that's different than fear. I was mostly referring to other statements above your comments.


----------



## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

lol, I understand just wanted to clarify myself is all. lol.


----------

