# Large breed puppy chow for Camelot pup?



## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm starting to think that Vegas needs large breed chow. His fronts are starting too look a bit funky. I don't know if regular puppy chow is too rich or what. I'm really thinking he qualifies as a large breed puppy. :/ What do you guys think? I want to make sure he grows properly.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I know I PMed you about this, but I vote no to large breed chow... I gave you a link to a lower protien and calcium diet which should help get his fronts back together if not prevent further deterioration.


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

I hope so. I want him to be healthy as I can get him. He's been through enough already. Thanks for the info btw!


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## Nizmosmommy (Jun 1, 2009)

have you tried talking to your vet.
maybe they can reccomend a good diet.
but I wouldn't change the food if you don't have to.
we did it a few times with Nismo when he was a puppy and now he has gastro intestinal issues.


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Nizmosmommy said:


> have you tried talking to your vet.
> maybe they can reccomend a good diet.
> but I wouldn't change the food if you don't have to.
> we did it a few times with Nismo when he was a puppy and now he has gastro intestinal issues.


Thats funny :rofl:

ASK a VET about nutrition !! Ask a VET .... they will put your dog on Science Diet, Purina or Royal Canine ....

Not ALL dogs will get problems with there intestinal. Just like not all humans do.


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

Yeah, I wonder about that. Why exactly DO vets recommend that stuff? There's healthier chows out therefor sure!


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Good nutrition is always a plus, but there is a genetic component to things like that as well. Feet and pasterns can be transitory, but if you look at the way he's throwing his elbows out, that's not dietary. Sorry to say but he may just have an all-over poor front. ETA: I vote no on the large-breed food as well. I like to feed a good all-stages food like Nature's Variety.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

GTR said:


> Yeah, I wonder about that. Why exactly DO vets recommend that stuff? There's healthier chows out therefor sure!


Because Hill's spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a year funding university research and nutrition courses at all of the veterinary colleges. So vets who sell Science Diet and other premium foods directly from their offices pocket profits off each bag they sell.
pretty much Hill's is the major contributor in nutrition courses in school which btw, they don't spend alot of time on nutrition in vet school.

try TOTW or chicken soup for the pet lover's soul. we are getting the girls on TOTW, it is grain free and very healthy..imo tho


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

GTR said:


> Yeah, I wonder about that. Why exactly DO vets recommend that stuff? There's healthier chows out therefor sure!


Actually Riley is HALF RIGHT

Hill (Science Diet) Eukanuba (Iams) Purina, Royal Canine ALL OFFER THE VETS "STOCK, & GIFTS" TO SELL THERE ITEMS IN THERE OFFICE. 
example: When I was a VET TECH in CA... Hills had a contest for the techs.. that we sell as much of there product as we can and the winner in our district got to go to Hawaii. Well...being a nutrition person I could SELL the hell out of the stuff .. another gal and I tied and both got to go to Hawaii for 1 weeks. All paid but food and spending funds.

VETS unless they actually go into a study program regarding nutrition they do not know anything about it. Even the VET I work for now ... I call him a DUMB *** b/c he was explaining to a client on what to give this dog... he was telling her to give bulon (SALT) WRONG!!! to entice the dog to eat... NONE Sodium broth would have been better HELLO!!!

Anyway hope that explains to ya


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

I can understand that. A reason for the why.

That's a bummer about his legs, but I am slightly relieved that it's not my fault. Woo-

His mom and pop had nice legs.
Here's his mom and pop....I wonder if it will grow out?


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> Thats funny :rofl:
> 
> ASK a VET about nutrition !! Ask a VET .... they will put your dog on Science Diet, Purina or Royal Canine ....
> 
> Not ALL dogs will get problems with there intestinal. Just like not all humans do.


:hammer: My vet complimented Helena's coat and build. I told her we fed her Taste of the Wild... he had never heard of it... but he said "must be some good food" And he's been in the field for probably 20 years.....


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Hey deb and lindsay, What i noticed in another thread she posted with pictures shows that the dog is going down in the pasterns it's not just the bowed issue that is appharent in this photograph. That is why I reccomended a lower protien and calcium intake along with easier exercises on his growing bones and joints. If you guys still feel that it is genetic by all means, but I had great success with being down in the hocks with Felony doing what I just said.

EDIT: I know for my dog it wasn't genetic, it was enviornmental and nutritional (from a previous owner), it's always worth a shot.


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Hey deb and lindsay, What i noticed in another thread she posted with pictures shows that the dog is going down in the pasterns it's not just the bowed issue that is appharent in this photograph. That is why I reccomended a lower protien and calcium intake along with easier exercises on his growing bones and joints. If you guys still feel that it is genetic by all means, but I had great success with being down in the hocks with Felony doing what I just said.
> 
> EDIT: I know for my dog it wasn't genetic, it was enviornmental and nutritional (from a previous owner), it's always worth a shot.


Now I have seen folks take dogs to a good RAW or Cooks meat diet w/ Supplements and change pasterns, flat foot, and sickle hocked. So I dont agree with a low protein diet. I agree with keeping the PUP thin with a good diet and NOT so much in a CRATE unless it is a HUGE CRATE that the pup and stretch in.


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

[/QUOTE]

If you truly look at this pup he is .... 
FRONT
1. bow (horseshoe) in the front 
2. flat footed
3. down in the pasterns
REAR
1. cowhocked 
2 slightly sickle hocked

This is ALL Genetics

FROM BOTH PARENTS PHOTOS I CAN NOT TELL YOU IF THEY HAVE GENETIC PROBLEMS... BAD PHOTOS HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO PROVE IT A PROBLEM OR NOT. Maybe the OWNER will post the following photos:
- Front 
- size 
- rear 
OF BOTH PARENTS


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

I definitely would like to do everything I can to get him fixed up. Any opinions on a specific chow? Should I add in supplemental vitamins? Less calcium/more calcium??


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

GTR said:


> I definitely would like to do everything I can to get him fixed up. Any opinions on a specific chow? Should I add in supplemental vitamins? Less calcium/more calcium??


GTR check you PM


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

geisthexe said:


> If you truly look at this pup he is ....
> FRONT
> 1. bow (horseshoe) in the front
> 2. flat footed
> ...


So, being down in the pasterns is always genetic? I'm definitely not arguing here, I'm just trying to expand what little I know these days haha. I only addressed the pasterns being down to her, not the other faults.

Also, I thought, there's a difference between protien in kibble vs raw because of the water left in the raw. Or does that not pertain to this?


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm curious about that as well. Even if it is genetic, how much of it can be helped through proper nutrition...

ge- I'm mailing you pics and pedigree. He is very closely bred as you will see in the pedigree.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

IMO it looks like chondrodysplasia you see it so many times in Bullies. You can try the nutrition route and it could help but it looks more like a genetic problem. Down pasterns many times is genetic but some times you see with dogs who are not getting proper nutrition. Too much protein in a puppy can cause knuckling over but the dog in the picture looks different from dog knuckling over. Also poor containment can cause bad feet like always being on a flat slick surface, like rescues that were kept in crates almost 24 hours a day will have flat feet if they do not have a blanket to keep from sliding.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Diet can affect the pasterns and feet. I didn't dispute that. But with him having a bulldog front that indicates that he could be genetically predisposed to a bad front in general. The latter is something that can't be fixed with diet, but perhaps the former can be. The OP should definitely take steps to correct as much of the problem as possible. I do recommend a good all-stages food like Nature's Variety. They say NV Instinct is high in protien and calcium, but its also not recommended for puppies as per the Dog Food Analysis website.

Can the pasterns/feet be fixed? Maybe. I knew a dog who had bad feet/pasterns at 9 months that popped up later (seemingly when his food was increased, rather than keeping him light as we're generally told to do with larger puppies). And then with Terra, I've seen a slight improvement in her feet with the inclusion of a powdered calcium supplement, but I think she will always have flatish feet (probably coming from the gamebred stuff in her pedigree).


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Riot has genetically horrible feet, when she was young they were splayed lizard toes! I had her on calcium supplements and adult food and her feet have improved to just being bad not horrible. She is 11 months old and I think they are as good as they are going to get. Food can help but you are always limited by genetics.


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

Alright, so I need to look into Nature's Variety Chow, and calcium supplements. Any particular brand for the vitamins?


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