# AMERICAN BULLY x APBT = MUTT OR NOT??



## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

AMERICAN BULLY x APBT = MUTT OR NOT??

i honestly dont know .that is why im asking all of u guyz ..
POSITIVE NEGATIVE OPINIONS ACCEPTED


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## SouthernMystery (Feb 20, 2011)

That's a tough questions,but I'd say mutt. They are two different breeds and when you mix two breeds together you get Mutts. Than again it depends on what you breed for or what your goal is.


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

SouthernMystery said:


> That's a tough questions,but I'd say mutt. They are two different breeds and when you mix two breeds together you get Mutts. Than again it depends on what you breed for or what your goal is.


i see ..thx Bro  ..


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## JOEL (Jul 6, 2010)

_*GREAT POST!!!!*_
:goodpost::clap:


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## JOEL (Jul 6, 2010)

*I THINK IT CAN GO BOTH WAYS GOOD OR BAD....
THATS JUST WAT I THINK..HEY BUT THAT WOULD BE COOL
TO TRY IT..*


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Because the American Bully is now it's own established breed then an Am Bully x APBT would be a mutt. I do not agree with mixing the two regardless of what was done in the past. Now many Bullies are registered with the UKC as APBTs so I wouldn't count those, but mixing game lines today with bully lines yes that would be a mutt, in my opinion.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

JOEL said:


> *I THINK IT CAN GO BOTH WAYS GOOD OR BAD....
> THATS JUST WAT I THINK..HEY BUT THAT WOULD BE COOL
> TO TRY IT..*


I think enough mixing and experimenting has taken place. Lets breed the bullies with the bullies and the pits with the pits.


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> I think enough mixing and experimenting has taken place. Lets breed the bullies with the bullies and the pits with the pits.


i agree to this..but i have seen Bullies x To APBT Bitches.. they look like Pocket APBT's but the thing about it is i dont know if the temperament of the dog is ok..


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## SouthernMystery (Feb 20, 2011)

No problemo


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## JOEL (Jul 6, 2010)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Because the American Bully is now it's own established breed then an Am Bully x APBT would be a mutt. I do not agree with mixing the two regardless of what was done in the past. Now many Bullies are registered with the UKC as APBTs so I wouldn't count those, but mixing game lines today with bully lines yes that would be a mutt, in my opinion.


*GREAT INPUT..*


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## JOEL (Jul 6, 2010)

rzee003 said:


> i agree to this..but i have seen Bullies x To APBT Bitches.. they look like Pocket APBT's but the thing about it is i dont know if the temperament of the dog is ok..


*A POCKET APBT HUM THAT SOUND NICE...:clap:*


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

JOEL said:


> *A POCKET APBT HUM THAT SOUND NICE...:clap:*


yeah hehe ..Looks nice too ..but sadly its a mutt


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## JOEL (Jul 6, 2010)

rzee003 said:


> yeah hehe ..Looks nice too ..but sadly its a mutt


*TRUE! O WELL MYBE 5 TO 6YR FROM NOW SOME ONE WILL DO
IT..*


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

BTW hav u guyz heard about BANDOGS?


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

The APBT does not have classes like the American Bully and I highly doubt they ever will. That's a good thing though.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

rzee003 said:


> BTW hav u guyz heard about BANDOGS?


Yes, they are working dogs. Hard workers and come in a variety. Redog owns one named Bob. He is hardcore.


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Yes, they are working dogs. Hard workers and come in a variety. Redog owns one named Bob. He is hardcore.


how did they come up with bandogs?..what is the foundation of the breed bandog?..


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Bandogges date back to 1200-1300's developing in England. They were usually Mastiff type dogs and chained to guard and protect the house and family at night.

 Old Bandogs were strictly working dogs of various crosses and sizes. They were hunters, fighters, property protectors and didn't really have a set type. They originated from Eastern Shepherds and Mastiffs and crossed with Bullenbeissers and hounds. The Bullmastiff actually was established from a Bandog "program."

 *
Foundation breeding*

What is reported here is just an estimated expected average range of various foundations breeds commonly seen in various Bandog programs.

The Primary Group , approximate average of 25-75% from American Pit Bull Terrier and/or Bull Terrier.

The Secondary Group ,approximate average of 25-75% from English Mastiff and/or Neapolitan Mastiff.

A Tertiary Group (used in some programs) approximate average of 0-75%: American Bulldog, Boerboel, Bullmastiff, Bulldog Campeiro, Cane Corso, Dogue de Bordeaux, Fila Brasileiro, Great Dane, Perro de Presa Canario,Dogo Argentino, and/or the Tosa Inu.


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## LoudMouf (Feb 2, 2011)

Breeding an American Bully to an APBT is just like breeding an AmStaff to an APBT.


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

LoudMouf said:


> Breeding an American Bully to an APBT is just like breeding an AmStaff to an APBT.


ahh ..i hope there would be papers for it too


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

it would definately be a mutt.... people should really quit mixbreeding!!!


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Because the American Bully is now it's own established breed then an Am Bully x APBT would be a mutt. I do not agree with mixing the two regardless of what was done in the past. Now many Bullies are registered with the UKC as APBTs so I wouldn't count those, but mixing game lines today with bully lines yes that would be a mutt, in my opinion.


Why would you not count the ones that are registered with the UKC?Just because they are registered with the UKC doesn't mean it changes their bloodline.They would still be mutts.Just mutts registered wrong


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

dixieland said:


> Why would you not count the ones that are registered with the UKC?Just because they are registered with the UKC doesn't mean it changes their bloodline.They would still be mutts.Just mutts registered wrong


I do not count the Am Bullies that are dual registered with the UKC as mutts. The Am Bully is its own breed and most of them are dual registered with the UKC, ADBA, or AKC as an APBT. Breeding a RE Am Bully to a RE UKC APBT that has not yet been registered with the ABKC doe not make it a mutt. The bloodline is still RE. What exactly are you saying when you say they are mutts registered wrong because almost every Am Bully registered with the ABKC is dual registered.


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## Aximus Prime (Dec 15, 2009)

It seems that the dogs that have given American Pit Bull Terriers a bad name are the mutts that have "Pit" in them. 

Properly bred APBT's from good lines should be gentle dogs and never show human aggression...can't say that of the mixes and the problem is the mixes are called "Pitbulls" by the media and even 95% of dog owners!


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

LoudMouf said:


> Breeding an American Bully to an APBT is just like breeding an AmStaff to an APBT.


No its like breeding an APBT to a Labradoodle.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I have to disagree breeding an AMB to and APBT or AST makes a mixed breed. breeding an APBT to an AST is a pitterstaff not a APBT or AST.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

bandogs, bandogges, bandoggues, bandogues.. "Bound Dog" ... Chain Dogs.. Mastiffs were 90lbs reckless brutes bred from the [] dog known as bulldogs of the mid evil times. Terriers came from the same stock inbred to be different dogs. Plenty of bandog information here on this site, ideally bandogs are for protection and pit bulldogs aka pit bulls aka APBT aka bulldogs aka game dogs are just where bandogs get their gusto and the bandogs of yester year that say they have bull terrier thats a slang name for the pit bull of the railroad days and before.. Look at Early Tosa pics they are 90lbs APBTs lookin like some whoppers posing as 90lbs APBTs LOL but over time they developed a silent gamey dog.. APBTs arent allowed in Tosa matches; for good reason. Japan has good dogs of APBTs and their bandog the Tosa.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Shouldn't pitterstafs be bullys then coz aparently bullies are just ast x apbt LOL


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> I have to disagree breeding an AMB to and APBT or AST makes a mixed breed. breeding an APBT to an AST is a pitterstaff not a APBT or AST.


ambullies were a cross from apbt,amstaff and bulldogs?.. correct me if im wrong sir


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

what about the nebblets APBTs and Colby APBTs that are as game conformation as the rest of em and carry ADBA and or UKC and AKC papers? I dare not call Colby stock Bully or Pitterstaff. He created the staff basically.. good ol Primo. .. 
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [865] :: COLBY'S PRIMO
COMPARE TO LITTER MATE: TRIXIE who was bred for APBT game Andersons Turk was a game dog. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: OFFSPRING :: COLBY'S TRIXIE :: [871]

Its very important to know that a TRUE Am Staff kept to true form will just be a show bred version of the APBT of the exact roots.. Colby .. study colby.. study colby.. his peds show his practices..  His dogs go both ways and are working dogs.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

bulldogs are APBTs.. English Bulldogs are the Staff Pug Mutt of the 1700s that took over the name by way of the King.. King George II or III .. 

Bulldogs is a working dog really, Am Bulldogs so to speak, and French Bulldogs used to be able to climb trees 15yrs ago, LOL I dont know what peopel are doin with those lil guys they used to be ferocious lil workers and bred for such. 

I dont know what made up the Bully because the ped are blank where it counts.. Just like Whopper dogs. So mastif and am bulldog and english bulldog for the pocket pits, lol I dont know but I know that if you want a real APBT your in the phillipines and your a hot spot for the best of the best.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Its all corrupt from both sides


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

rzee003 said:


> ambullies were a cross from apbt,amstaff and bulldogs?.. correct me if im wrong sir


_Thank you BTK for this info_

When RE was created its purpose was not to create the American Bully. They were a kennel that showed UKC and it was started with an Am Staff x APBT. Cloverhill and Kimmar dogs were the foundation Am Staff lines. RE dogs have been around for about 20 years; however, the name American Bully didn't appear until about 2002. *Now this is solely RE and there are a few very credible people on this board who have spoken with Dave Wilson personally and will vouch that no other breeds (OE Bulldog, Mastiff, etc.) were mixed in with RE dogs bred in the 90s by Dave Wilson.* There are a couple of members on this board who have asked direct questions and received direct answers from Dave Wilson regarding this issue. I do not deny that there are several other Bully lines with questionable traits; furthermore, I strongly disagree with those type of breeding ethics, but those people are also not the "creator" of the Am Bully, so to speak. *So to answer your question- NO the OE Bulldog was not used to create the American Bully. *


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## Pitbull Palace (Feb 5, 2011)

Ummmm ? Pass, hahahah


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Pitbull Palace said:


> Ummmm ? Pass, hahahah


Sometimes.... On Thursdays anyway....  lol


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Pitbull Palace said:


> Ummmm ? Pass, hahahah


I agree, mate. I think I'll give this one a wide berth.


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

rzee003 said:


> ambullies were a cross from apbt,amstaff and bulldogs?.. correct me if im wrong sir


American Bullies are a new breed. Its what ever works for the breeder. I have seen half Frenchy American Bullies.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

NorCalTim said:


> American Bullies are a new breed. Its what ever works for the breeder. I have seen half Frenchy American Bullies.


Half Frenchie Am bullies?


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## chaindog (Feb 23, 2011)

NorCalTim said:


> American Bullies are a new breed. *Its what ever works for the breeder.* I have seen half Frenchy American Bullies.


I think thats how most breeds started. Including the apbt. What ever works.


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Half Frenchie Am bullies?


Frenchies, Pugs, what ever works for the correct low rider. 

I read about how most dogs become victims of their own success. For instance a Bull Dog with a big head and a small behind. People wanted them that way, so much so that they have a hard time giving natural birth. Now the standards are changing because of the publicity on how unhealthy they have become.

Same for the APBT. People wanted a big head on a dog, etc. Some characteristics that were a BY PRODUCT of the most game dog. Its not what they were bred for. Enter the new breed American Bully. Bred for looks.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

NorCalTim said:


> Same for the APBT. People wanted a big head on a dog, etc. Some characteristics that were a BY PRODUCT of the most game dog. Its not what they were bred for. *Enter the new breed American Bully. Bred for looks.*


BTK does a very good job explaining what they were bred for and why they were created:



BullyTheKid said:


> *Created for?
> 
> The American Bully was created for companionship. Unlike other breeds which were created for specific tasks and abilities, and whose form was based on the ability to most efficiently perform its function. Much as chrome rims, hood vents and spoilers have become larger and more gaudy, these accessories at one point were meant to perform a function, now they often hinder a cars performance and cause car enthusiasts to consider them "ghetto" and will often say these oversized items destroy the original beauty of a vehicle.
> 
> ...


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> I do not count the Am Bullies that are dual registered with the UKC as mutts. The Am Bully is its own breed and most of them are dual registered with the UKC, ADBA, or AKC as an APBT. Breeding a RE Am Bully to a RE UKC APBT that has not yet been registered with the ABKC doe not make it a mutt. The bloodline is still RE. What exactly are you saying when you say they are mutts registered wrong because almost every Am Bully registered with the ABKC is dual registered.


Just because they are registered as apbt's with the UKC or adba etc.. does not mean that's what they are.
I'm mainly talking about the ones that anyone can plainly see by looking at them that they are not apbt,but are still registered that way.If you take that dog and bred him/her with a apbt it will still be a mutt regardless of what's it's regestered as.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

NorCalTim said:


> Frenchies, Pugs, what ever works for the correct low rider.
> 
> I read about how most dogs become victims of their own success. For instance a Bull Dog with a big head and a small behind. People wanted them that way, so much so that they have a hard time giving natural birth. Now the standards are changing because of the publicity on how unhealthy they have become.
> 
> Same for the APBT. People wanted a big head on a dog, etc. Some characteristics that were a BY PRODUCT of the most game dog. Its not what they were bred for. Enter the new breed American Bully. Bred for looks.


Those two middle pics look like a bad photoshop job!


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

I think *M*ixing *U*p *T*raits is a *T*errible idea. Outside of that no comment.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

You'd be cross breeding so calling them mutts would be fair.


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## CaLi 2 B.C. (Dec 4, 2010)

NorCalTim said:


> Frenchies, Pugs, what ever works for the correct low rider.
> 
> I read about how most dogs become victims of their own success. For instance a Bull Dog with a big head and a small behind. People wanted them that way, so much so that they have a hard time giving natural birth. Now the standards are changing because of the publicity on how unhealthy they have become.
> 
> Same for the APBT. People wanted a big head on a dog, etc. Some characteristics that were a BY PRODUCT of the most game dog. Its not what they were bred for. Enter the new breed American Bully. Bred for looks.


shorty bull and american bully arent the same thing at all:hammer:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LoudMouf said:


> Breeding an American Bully to an APBT is just like breeding an AmStaff to an APBT.


I agree ... :goodpost:

And to the person who said something about a pocket APBT there is no such thing as a pocket APBT. There are APBT's and that's it. Put it like this no ethical breeder worth his lick from either side is going mix the 2. People that do this are BYB's and don't respect breeds and shouldn't be breeding.

And there is no such thing as a pitter-staff last time I checked that was not an established breed.


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## LoudMouf (Feb 2, 2011)

Until the registeries start treating all these breeds (AmStaff, APBT, and American Bully) as completely different breeds we will continue to have these issues. The ADBA accepts the AKC Amstaff as an APBT, the ABKC accepts the UKC APBT as an American Bully, and the AADR accepts the ABKC American Bully and AKC Amstaff as an APBT. Furthermore the ADBA accepts the AADR paperwork for registration. These mistakes are causing for the issues because as long as registries treat them as such, the problem will continue. It is hard to clearly draw the line in the sand and call them different breeds, when breeders are allowed to treat them as one.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Gracie is a pocket APBT gosh Tara don't you know anything


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

MISSAPBT said:


> Gracie is a pocket APBT gosh Tara don't you know anything


LOL I can fit her right in my pocket and sneak her back to the states :rofl:


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## LoudMouf (Feb 2, 2011)

NorCalTim said:


> No its like breeding an APBT to a Labradoodle.


Please explain how you got to that conclusion? A Labradoodle is a clear mixing of two very specific individual breeds.

*-One of the things that adds to people's confusion is when people start coining their own terms like pitterstaff. It is silly to use this term, because there are alot of registered APBTs with Amstaff dogs incorporated in their pedigree somewhere. In regards to show dogs, others will disagree but I do not believe there is a difference esp. being that the Amstaff/APBT cross was being accepted by the UKC until last year.*


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> shorty bull and american bully arent the same thing at all:hammer:


Oh yes. The American Short Bull. I have seen photos of them in the wild before they were domesticated. :hammer:


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

LoudMouf said:


> Please explain how you got to that conclusion? A Labradoodle is a clear mixing of two very specific individual breeds.
> 
> *-One of the things that adds to people's confusion is when people start coining their own terms like pitterstaff. It is silly to use this term, because there are alot of registered APBTs with Amstaff dogs incorporated in their pedigree somewhere. In regards to show dogs, others will disagree but I do not believe there is a difference esp. being that the Amstaff/APBT cross was being accepted by the UKC until last year.*


I can make an American Bully with my next breeding by breeding what ever I have that looks "right". Its a mixed breed. Like the Labradoodle.

Buy a APBT puppy. Registed the Bully I created as the APBT. Bingo. My very own super special Bully Breed.


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## LoudMouf (Feb 2, 2011)

NorCalTim said:


> Oh yes. The American Short Bull. I have seen photos of them in the wild before they were domesticated. :hammer:


The Shorty Bull is a dog that comes from several breeders being mixed together. It was established by a group of breeders who had NOTHING to do with the American Bully. The ABKC has just decided to be one of the first registries to recognize it as a breed. Yet the American Bully Breed and Shorty Bull Breed are not inner linked any other way than by the ABKC.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

LoudMouf said:


> Until the registeries start treating all these breeds (AmStaff, APBT, and American Bully) as completely different breeds we will continue to have these issues. The ADBA accepts the AKC Amstaff as an APBT, the ABKC accepts the UKC APBT as an American Bully, and the AADR accepts the ABKC American Bully and AKC Amstaff as an APBT. Furthermore the ADBA accepts the AADR paperwork for registration. These mistakes are causing for the issues because as long as registries treat them as such, the problem will continue. It is hard to clearly draw the line in the sand and call them different breeds, when breeders are allowed to treat them as one.


:goodpost: Ok I can somewhat agree with this.I think it needs to also fall on the heads of the breeders to become more educated with exactly what they have and register it as such.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Breeding a apbt to Old english BD, ABD and EB is the same as breeding it to an labradoodle as they are diffrent breeds. Mongrals


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

LoudMouf said:


> Until the registeries start treating all these breeds (AmStaff, APBT, and American Bully) as completely different breeds we will continue to have these issues. The ADBA accepts the AKC Amstaff as an APBT, the ABKC accepts the UKC APBT as an American Bully, and the AADR accepts the ABKC American Bully and AKC Amstaff as an APBT. Furthermore the ADBA accepts the AADR paperwork for registration. These mistakes are causing for the issues because as long as registries treat them as such, the problem will continue. It is hard to clearly draw the line in the sand and call them different breeds, when breeders are allowed to treat them as one.














LoudMouf said:


> Please explain how you got to that conclusion? A Labradoodle is a clear mixing of two very specific individual breeds.
> 
> *-One of the things that adds to people's confusion is when people start coining their own terms like pitterstaff. It is silly to use this term, because there are alot of registered APBTs with Amstaff dogs incorporated in their pedigree somewhere. In regards to show dogs, others will disagree but I do not believe there is a difference esp. being that the Amstaff/APBT cross was being accepted by the UKC until last year.*













NorCalTim said:


> I can make an American Bully with my next breeding by breeding what ever I have that looks "right". Its a mixed breed. Like the Labradoodle.
> 
> Buy a APBT puppy. Registed the Bully I created as the APBT. Bingo. My very own super special Bully Breed.
> 
> Forget the hundreds if not thousands of years of work that went into a dog. A dog not breed for looks, size or color. Its a dog bred for the HIDDEN trait of gameness. The never quit attitude. This hunter/fighter would not hurt the owner after the hunt and the kill has been made. Temperament tested through many HUMAN LIFETIMES. :clap:


Bullies have just a sound temperament as the APBT when bred correctly, just as with the APBT; in fact, I think Bullies are more of a family dog because they are calmer dogs. I am not saying that the APBT isn't a good family dog because mine is the best, but I can't take him for walks at the park with my son because he is so DA. The only reason we have the APBT is because bulldogs and terriers were mixed; furthermore, game dog fanciers of the time who were not so much interested in purebred dogs as they were in dogs with fighting ability thus they bred accordingly to dogs that were game, regardless of pedigree. So if bulldogs and terriers were crossed to eventually create the breed you love so much today WHY is it such an issue that the AmStaff and APBT was mixed to give other people the breed they so much love???? That being said I do not even own a bully, but I love and respect both breeds for what they are.



LoudMouf said:


> The Shorty Bull is a dog that comes from several breeders being mixed together. It was established by a group of breeders who had NOTHING to do with the American Bully. The ABKC has just decided to be one of the first registries to recognize it as a breed. Yet the American Bully Breed and Shorty Bull Breed are not inner linked any other way than by the ABKC.










Excellent post!


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## LoudMouf (Feb 2, 2011)

dixieland said:


> :goodpost: Ok I can somewhat agree with this.I think it needs to also fall on the heads of the breeders to become more educated with exactly what they have and register it as such.


The problem is not everyone shares the same belief as to the APBT/Amstaff difference is. Not everyone feels these are different breeds because some people argue that the Amstaff is just a tight bred gene pool of the APBT. This opinion was further reinforced by the registry (mostly the UKC and ADBA) being willing to accept the Amstaff into it's gene pool as registered APBTs. Unfortnately until the registries treat them all individually, this black and white issue will continue to have a very large gray area. Yet even if they did seperate them, you still have the issue of dual and tri-registered dogs.


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## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Because the American Bully is now it's own established breed then an Am Bully x APBT would be a mutt. I do not agree with mixing the two regardless of what was done in the past. Now many Bullies are registered with the UKC as APBTs so I wouldn't count those, but mixing game lines today with bully lines yes that would be a mutt, in my opinion.


Couldnt have said it better. 100% in agreement


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

This will not turn into a debate over what breed is or is not HA or over anything regarding which breed is better or worse of ANYTHING!

This thread was about whether you consider it mixing breeding to take American Bully to APBT.

KEEP IT THAT WAY OR WEEK BANS WILL GO OUT! THIS BULLY VRS APBT STUFF NEEDS TO STOP ON THIS FORUM.


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## PitbullGuy617 (Feb 26, 2011)

They are different breeds. Two breeds = mutt. so yes its a mut!


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## Ottis Driftwood (Mar 16, 2006)

Aximus Prime said:


> It seems that the dogs that have given American Pit Bull Terriers a bad name are the mutts that have "Pit" in them.
> 
> Properly bred APBT's from good lines should be gentle dogs and never show human aggression...can't say that of the mixes and the problem is the mixes are called "Pitbulls" by the media and even 95% of dog owners!


Key word there is SHOULD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ottis Driftwood (Mar 16, 2006)

American_Pit13 said:


> This will not turn into a debate over what breed is or is not HA or over anything regarding which breeder is better or worse of ANYTHING!
> 
> This thread was about whether you consider it mixing breeding to take American Bully to APBT.
> 
> KEEP IT THAT WAY OR WEEK BANS WILL GO OUT! THIS BULLY VRS APBT STUFF NEEDS TO STOP ON THIS FORUM.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

like pissin in the wind lol


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

Sadie said:


> I agree ... :goodpost:
> 
> And to the person who said something about a pocket APBT there is no such thing as a pocket APBT. There are APBT's and that's it. Put it like this no ethical breeder worth his lick from either side is going mix the 2. People that do this are BYB's and don't respect breeds and shouldn't be breeding.
> 
> And there is no such thing as a pitter-staff last time I checked that was not an established breed.


yes u are right ..there is no such thing as pocket APBT's  ..i was just referring that having the AM BULLY cross to An Apbt some puppies will look like a pocket apbt ..i have seen some ...and they really look like lowered apbts..just like what a pocket bully compared to a standard bully . .hehehe


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

i like bullies, i do. well, some of them anyway. in fact, i used to own a bully years ago and he was a good dog. now that ive said that...mixing an apbt with a bully is going to do a couple things imo. 1: improve on the bully. 2: take away from the apbt. i dont really consider the bully a real breed right now but instead a mutt. i could understand why a bully owner looking to breed would want to introduce some more apbt blood but i see no reason for an apbt owner/breeder to ever breed bully into their apbt dogs. unless theyre trying to cash in on the fad of course.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

I don't like to call dogs mutts, but crossing two breeds would make the dog a mixed breed.


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## r0ckah0l1c (Jan 18, 2011)

I don't necessarily think it's healthy to breed an american bully and an apbt. My Lily is the mix you speak of and I don't know that it is a healthy mix. She is very very small. She is 11 weeks and looks like a baby chihuahua or something....and the way she's built looks like it could cause problems later. I actually regret getting her and I wish I would've gotten a purebred apbt instead. Still love her to death but I really worry about her. She can't even jump on the couch yet and she's almost 3 months old...I'll post pics...they're old though cause my phone broke lol


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## r0ckah0l1c (Jan 18, 2011)

This is her on superbowl Sunday @[email protected] she looks like a whole other breed to me...not even pitbull at all...


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

r0ckah0l1c said:


> This is her on superbowl Sunday @[email protected] she looks like a whole other breed to me...not even pitbull at all...


my friend's puppy is just as same as yours ..his pup is also Ambuly x apbt ..i think ur pup will turn out just like my friend's pup ..really low.. but cute


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

*bangs head on wall and walks away**


Great post Holly


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

r0ckah0l1c said:


> This is her on superbowl Sunday @[email protected] she looks like a whole other breed to me...not even pitbull at all...


cute puppies!!


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## r0ckah0l1c (Jan 18, 2011)

thank you  They are much bigger now. But still equally as cute ;D


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## rzee003 (Feb 19, 2011)

r0ckah0l1c said:


> thank you  They are much bigger now. But still equally as cute ;D


can u Upload updated pics of them?..they are cute hehe


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## r0ckah0l1c (Jan 18, 2011)

I would but my phone is broken. I shall upload new pics later this week after my new cell arrives


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## r0ckah0l1c (Jan 18, 2011)

pic of the pups from today  got my new phone.


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## fisHarNekEd (Mar 17, 2009)

Every breed was a "mutt" at some point. Experimentation is how we make/made breeds to have sertain charicteristics.

As long as all the pups have good homes lined up before they pop out, then what is the problem?


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## fisHarNekEd (Mar 17, 2009)

r0ckah0l1c said:


> I don't necessarily think it's healthy to breed an american bully and an apbt. My Lily is the mix you speak of and I don't know that it is a healthy mix. She is very very small. She is 11 weeks and looks like a baby chihuahua or something....and the way she's built looks like it could cause problems later. I actually regret getting her and I wish I would've gotten a purebred apbt instead. Still love her to death but I really worry about her. She can't even jump on the couch yet and she's almost 3 months old...I'll post pics...they're old though cause my phone broke lol


Maybe she is just a late bloomer. Was she the runt? My best parsons russel when i used to breed, was fat and lazy, we thought she had doggy down syndrome. she turned out to have the best temperment, obedience and was built much better.

but she didnt look right and develop untill about 5 months when the puppy fat melted off.


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## Pitbull Palace (Feb 5, 2011)

fisHarNekEd said:


> Every breed was a "mutt" at some point. Experimentation is how we make/made breeds to have sertain charicteristics.
> 
> As long as all the pups have good homes lined up before they pop out, then what is the problem?


I Agree with Having Homes for all the Pup's. However the rest of the Comment is Ignorant and so am I to Breeding, theres 101 reason's not to Mix breed's in THIS Thread and otheres.
Besides, I say CLOSE the Books, How many breeds do we need ?


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## fisHarNekEd (Mar 17, 2009)

^ didnt mean to offend anybody, just an opinion, not acting on it.


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## Indie (Sep 29, 2010)

> Originally Posted by BullyTheKid View Post
> Created for?
> 
> The American Bully was created for companionship. Unlike other breeds which were created for specific tasks and abilities, and whose form was based on the ability to most efficiently perform its function. Much as chrome rims, hood vents and spoilers have become larger and more gaudy, these accessories at one point were meant to perform a function, now they often hinder a cars performance and cause car enthusiasts to consider them "ghetto" and will often say these oversized items destroy the original beauty of a vehicle.
> ...


As far as breeding an Am Bully to an APBT.. WHY would you breed 2 completely different body types? To see what will come out? I can tell you. Some dogs are going to look pure bully. Some are going to look pure APBT, and some are going to be a mix of both. You are supposed to improve upon a breed with each breeding.. not experiment. Genetics show, if you want a milder, less bully dog, don't breed to a correct APBT.. breed to a dog that is less bully. And continue to keep doing that. You will get more similarity in type in the litter, plus the pups will be able to produce more of themselves, instead of more randomly shaped dogs.


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## Pitbull Palace (Feb 5, 2011)

fisHarNekEd said:


> ^ didnt mean to offend anybody, just an opinion.


Bro I EDITED my Post, go see, I sounded nasty and didnt mean to. Sorry Bout that.


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## fisHarNekEd (Mar 17, 2009)

Pitbull Palace said:


> Bro I EDITED my Post, go see, I sounded nasty and didnt mean to. Sorry Bout that.


Ha, im not the only one...I Do that at work all the time and get myself into conflicts. People sure are passionate about certian things, i guess its good though, in this case its better to care too much about dog breeding, than to not care at all.


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## Pitbull Palace (Feb 5, 2011)

fisHarNekEd said:


> Ha, im not the only one...I Do that at work all the time and get myself into conflicts. People sure are passionate about certian things, i guess its good though, in this case its better to care too much about dog breeding, than to not care at all.


Rojjer that. I joined and thought some Peep's were Nuts, Then i realized i Joined a Forum thats all about DOGS, lol, Who am I to Disregaurd there 100% Dedication to something i may not we aware of. Im a Guy with Pet's, For some on here It's their Lives around there Passion 

Kinda Like me and my Job, I'd drive someone NUTS talkin and Debating about ASPHALT PAVERS and DUMP TRUCKS, hahahah, they could care Less.


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## aussie monster pitt (Mar 3, 2011)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Bullies have just a sound temperament as the APBT when bred correctly, just as with the APBT; in fact, I think Bullies are more of a family dog because they are calmer dogs. I am not saying that the APBT isn't a good family dog because mine is the best, but I can't take him for walks at the park with my son because he is so DA. The only reason we have the APBT is because bulldogs and terriers were mixed; furthermore, game dog fanciers of the time who were not so much interested in purebred dogs as they were in dogs with fighting ability thus they bred accordingly to dogs that were game, regardless of pedigree. So if bulldogs and terriers were crossed to eventually create the breed you love so much today WHY is it such an issue that the AmStaff and APBT was mixed to give other people the breed they so much love???? That being said I do not even own a bully, but I love and respect both breeds for what they are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

bulldogs and terriers weren't mixed per as the politics would have you believe...

The Pit Bulldog founded the mastiff aka bandog(in those times) and the terrier.. The first terriers looked just like OFRN game type dogs red and wirey and they were reportedly inbred from the pit fighting bulldogs which depictions show a PIT BULL or Staffordshire type dog; later after KIng George II and III the Bulldog was progandad as Staffordshire for the providence in which it was most popular, the manchester for the same and the Extinct fighitng White Terrier is simply a game bred Manchester and from which as game dog men and women know when breeding the dogs for game the confromations come with the mentality and working ability we dont breed for looks then mentality.. LOL thats a shoot. I've post great material and all the links one would need to do their own research and come to their own conclusions; don't just believe what your told.. Like owning wolves, LOL and organized wolf breeding produces dogs not wolves, because people organized it not nature..

INBREEDING and LINEBREEDING this is how you get pure breeds, races, etc.... Family trees for people back in the day had alot of 3rd cousin 2nd aunt and ifnot closer crossings to keep the FAMILY genes pure  Mutts are good dogs cause they are cross outs; just like heavy inbred game dog crossing into something that has never touched it such as wildside to those OFRN and BAM!! some FIRE!! Linebreeding and Inbreeding is how you isolate traits, and bring forth recessive as dominant traits. I recreated the long legged bulldog and one of both litters came out looking like the first terriers ever registered AKA OFRN and the others like the depictions of long legged bulldogs aka bullenbeizer and F1 barenbeizers.. Whats ironic about this ??? the TRUE terrier in purest form before crossing into a spitz breed and doubling back to get wirey hair or whatever and all ever else come about from terrier crossings; is an inbred pit dog bred for tearing the Earth to use that bulldog tenacity to get at wild quarry and dangerous game; around King George I the Terriers and Bulldogs in TRUE inbred forms came back together to form a gentlemens and working mans pit dog; one that was a smaller remake of the original bulldog. The orginal Bulldog and Terrier were bred for game and are of each other; Colby and Stratton have similar standpoints on this subject.

Bullys are of APBTs to take an BULLY to an APBT would only be for one thing to add working titles and game bred blood to a novice show line. OR TO add sound temperment to the BULLY LINE.. Sorry BUT I disagree about Bullies being more sound, LOL game dogs are tested; GSDs, Malinois, and many other prestige k9 dogs aren't as sound mentally as the APBT. The APBT bred RIGHT is the most sound dog on Earth; cause it comes from []'d herritage and proven stock........ PROVEN..... covers all canine traits, intelligence, behavior, so on and so on.. LOL I don't beileve every story about the game dogs being HA like Zebo because some people who owned him said he wasn't HA at all.. LOL Well I have Hoagie a 1/4 shot of Lonzo (Zebo/Vindicator) and he wont just listen to anyone, my son his mamma and myself; let me tell ya hes not HA at all but he would bite someone who just tried to handle him like they owned him esspecially if they are cruel hearted; LOL its in his firey lil eyes; I believe NOT all PEOPLE should have APBTs; and now the BULLY is here I wish all BULLY lines pushing BUlly Style would converge to Bully registration only; then anyone who thinks they want an APBT most likely should get a Bully; or mabye a German bred working style Boxer..

Crossing APBTs to Bullies doesnt offend me; just like crossing APBTs to ASTs; As the two come from APBTs; breeding dogs unethically and without proper working dog testing regiments within all legal perimeters which includes importing game tested stock. The fact is this... When the [] bred dogs were heroes of this nation during the 1930s-1950s and before there were lil to no accounts of HA pit dogs as they weren't tolerated and culled on first sign usually. Stratton and Colby books will point to similar point. What offends me is people breeding dogs unethically and thinking inbreeding is wrong and linebreeding is wrong, LOL I guess if your only breeding to match peds and a pretty dog; wh3n bred tight and bred right 

Working Huskies and Authentic Game dogs are indeed PUREBRED mutts.. as all the dog has to do is prove working ability and supremity and his/her genes go into the pot..

Western view of mutts.. Tosas are pure bred mutts for sure and so are Austrailian Cattle Dogs aka Red and Blue Heeler (though the blue heeler is the Queensland Heeler a smaller more tenacious dog, thus the slang term gone wild in the USA) But thats politics now as those dogs are workers and the dogs the registeries promote are only shadows of the dogs they represent.

The bully indeed is a mutt and only because laymen took a term given to a well bred and proven dog of its own right the Classic Bully which is basically an Plumbers Alligator AmStaff.. THE TERM and what has happened with XXL and Pockets welll thats not professional dog men or women and they arent sound and are not consistant.. The Classic Bully IS a SHOW bred APBT as the AST is a showbred APBT; but it still had working ability.. This stuff with rung papers adding to the bully name with American bulldog and whatever else they've used makes unconsitant mutts as American Bulldogs are JUST NOW FINDING CONSITANCY; Whopper dogs have the same problem and Camelot is a good source of refined whopper with OFRN; The Name of the dog describes everything about the dog and no other dog can be unless proven, however many cross the dog into their line to add that endless drive even alaskan huskies have some game dogs crossed in 

Mutt is anything pure crossed with anything pure or mixed crossed with mixed(a mixed pedigree), mottled purebreds are those with out any common ancestory in 5 generations; I tend to stand on the soap [] from time to time forgive me... LOL

The original bulldog was thrown into the pit; forever dubbed Pit Bull.. (SLC)


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> what about the nebblets APBTs and Colby APBTs that are as game conformation as the rest of em and carry ADBA and or UKC and AKC papers? I dare not call Colby stock Bully or Pitterstaff. He created the staff basically.. good ol Primo. ..
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [865] :: COLBY'S PRIMO
> COMPARE TO LITTER MATE: TRIXIE who was bred for APBT game Andersons Turk was a game dog. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: OFFSPRING :: COLBY'S TRIXIE :: [871]
> 
> Its very important to know that a TRUE Am Staff kept to true form will just be a show bred version of the APBT of the exact roots.. Colby .. study colby.. study colby.. his peds show his practices..  His dogs go both ways and are working dogs.


^^^ IN case you forgot... The TRUE amstaff will need game bred dogs to cross in to keep the stable mentality, how do you know its stable??? ITS BEEN PROVEN  Otherwise its just speculation; these type of dogs have to be []'d and tested to see what tools your working with if any at all..

AM BULLY being the CLASSIC bully which is Plumbers Alligator bred Amstaffs as they are bred for looks up from recent and a renouned game bloodline heavily inbred game dogs outcrossed to everything they thought looked pretty so to speak. <<< THAT X an APBT.. gonna get a TRUE working quality AMstaff.. Take the offspring of that to back to the game dog and you'll have an APBT and bred out the other direction adds sound mentality to the AmStaff,, Call me wrong<?? then you are saying Colby and Stratton and these good old boys didn't know their own dogs. Look how Primo's relatives swung both ways..

NOW a XXL is a bandog IMO and in a class with Whopper dogs which PREDATE the XXL lingo; taking that to an APBT is a mutt of sorts because you have a long way to go to purify any single trait. Camelot worked hard by outcrossing whopper to heavy OFRN and has to keep his breeding regiment tight to keep his dogs tight; whopper worked the same way otherwise mastiff cow hipped dogs start poping out and its because they are recessive genes popping through; XXL Bully dogs and Pockets have to do the same say to they're own and practice ethical breeding which REQUIRES culling and single out specific and HEALTHY traits for the dog. SO these style of dogs<<< X an APBT would be a mutt until taken back into and bred right purifying one trait over the other..

APBT X AST controversy lies in the lies we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel better; Look at the AST peds, Look at Performance AST peds, What is the oldest registery in the USA? Why did they start? the source .. The American Pit Bull Terrier and a dog by any other name..

Bully Controversy is simple, Classic dogs arent mutts IMO and the others have a long way to go, look how long its taken to get a performance Johnson dog in the American Bulldogs, cause they spawned from Colby dogs from different generations and from family divides during the civil war, same dogs, different names.. Classic Bullies are a new version of AST; IMO. The others F1,F2,F3 generation mutts being swirled and mismanaged.. F3 is your brood your model, F1 is RAW F2 is mix isolated traits.. F2 dogs have been used and rung to many times now the refinement is going to take some real organization on the PEOPLE the registeries can only do so much.

people should just remember the lil hero the American Pit Bull Terrier is a game bred dog and does not belong in just any home.. Just because people put dog great dogs cause they kill a dog or wont stop fighting and the people just don't know their dog while they believe the dog is untrustworthy.. Whats this mean?

APBT are game which its prey drive to the max without quit; you want to breed that to a dog that has been just bred to appease so comestically and you think you are going to get a SAFE non HA dog out of that? LOL THOSE are the dogs acutally APBTs that bite people; as Stratton points out, in The Truth About the American Pit Bull Terrier.


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## fisHarNekEd (Mar 17, 2009)

Somebody needs to breed the HA/DA out of the chiuaua. Man those things are mean for no reason.

talk about temperment. iv never seen a APBT or AmStaff fight back to those little guys! now that is good temperment!

My big guy has been attacked over and over by those rats. we babysat one for 2 weeks, Repo was covered in little bite marks by my frients 3lb chiuaua. He never even thought about biting it back.

Iv seen several chiuaua killings from other large breeds including the beloved german shepard and golden retreiver when i worked at petsmart.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

or thread will be closed. APBT x AM Bully= mutt or not? Thank you


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## SouthernMystery (Feb 20, 2011)

Okay let me change my comment. I would say apbt to American bully is mutt,but im not saying that all American bullies are Mutts, but majority of them are. I'm sorry if this offends anyone,but its the truth and its becoming more and more normal to see bulldog crosses in American bullies. Some people have went as far to breeding a Chihuahua to an American bully.


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