# How do members here feel about ear cropping(advice needed...again khm)?



## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

First day on this forum and no sleep for me I guess lol.Since I'm already here,might as well ask something that weighs heavily on my mind for 2 weeks now.
So,in all honesty how do members here feel about cropping? I really like short crop on pits but I feel like such a douche for feeling this way.No matter where I turn,there is no justification for my urge to crop except for the fact that it pleases me estetically.
It's like,I have pit mutts that surely won't pass as Amstaff  in dog shows (I adore shows,and my bf's Dogo is a dog show veteran,so he had an excuse to crop ).
I've seen that many experienced owners here who have great pits left them with natural ears,so I'm not sure if I'm in for some hardcore bash but be honest.

Plus,what bothers me the most is the fact that they'll go through some unnecessary trouble for literally nothing,not to mention people will see me and instantly think I'm an idiot,it's not like I have a Doberman.

I've searched crop-related themes here,but it's more or less specific question when the decision has been made,I couldn't find any solid opinion from long-term members.

I have only a month before I can get it done,and I know I should wait for their heads to develop a bit more,but I just needed to ask you in hopes of stopping my doubts.

What is the main reason you did it and would do it again,and the opposite? Do you think badly of owners that do crop for nothing but their preference?


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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

All cropping is aesthetic. With two young puppies, I would personally invest that money in training, good food and vet care, rather than cropping, but that's just me


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

Thank you for your opinion,I agree and it makes me feel even worse.


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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

Why would it make you feel worse?


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

Because it seems to me you're an established pit lover whose input means more than some random guy saying-do it,what the heck not,and I kinda look up to owners I respect cuz they are serving noble purpose for this breed.It's not that I'm suckin up to you,it's just that I feel I need to look up to the people who actually benefit the pits.
And a huge part of me knows that making my pits resemble fighting dogs which is the most horrific thing ever done to dogs,is like-pointless.But I like the look so badly.And I feel stuck.


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## Jaws101 (Jul 4, 2012)

Honestly in my opinion it's basically up to the owners. Not everyone crops their dogs ears, but you are entitled to. I too like the way it looks, but it is a bit of work in the beginning. It's not as if it will effect your dogs behavior in any way, you are just changing the look. In the end it is up to you. Do you want to spend the money on getting their ears cropped?


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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

Hey, I just know how much it costs to raise a puppy, let alone TWO, lol. Two times the shots, two spays, twice the food (shudder) Have you had them scraped for Demodex? The darker one looks like she has some generalized Demodex going on, which wouldn't be at all surprising given the compromised health situation they were in. But I'm dog poor, so spending money on cosmetic surgery isn't in my budget.


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

The thing is,money is not a problem because where I live,it is done by most licensed vets in a vet clinic and is not expensive at all,for one US crop they can get cropped,spayed and eat K-9 for half a month(per dog).We wouldn't be silly to keep them both if we weren't sure the budget allows us to.

Really,it is purely moral dillema for me.Not the crate,the harness,food,toys,vet and similar expenses and that's why I'm having a hard time even more.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

CroBlondie said:


> Because it seems to me you're an established pit lover whose input means more than some random guy saying-do it,what the heck not,and I kinda look up to owners I respect cuz they are serving noble purpose for this breed.It's not that I'm suckin up to you,it's just that I feel I need to look up to the people who actually benefit the pits.
> And a huge part of me knows that making my pits resemble fighting dogs which is the most horrific thing ever done to dogs,is like-pointless.But I like the look so badly.And I feel stuck.


Now im not saying that I approve of dog fighting, so don't think that. But I do acknowledge this breeds fighting past. And if those dogmen of the past hadn't done what they did, u wouldn't have the breed characteristics that we have. Now, also if u learn a lil bit about dogmen of the past u'd also relize that cropped ears were not prefered on a fighter. Exposes too much of the inner ear to damage, the flap is better for protection from another dog.

Crop if u want, its all looks. And its a personal choice.  I like the look on certain dogs too.


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

I've read so much shoot about this breed(s) I feel like anything I state comes off as ignorant,and it probably is.So,thanks for pointing the fact out!
I'm gonna think about it real hard,but I don't want to see my pits with no ears and think to myself-idiot,you.However,I don't want to look at them when the time for doing crop has passed and think to myself-idiot,you!
Maybe I'm just making a too big of a deal out of it,but still if it wasn't,I wouldn't feel this way,right?


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## dylroche1 (Mar 14, 2010)

If you like the way it looks, and money is not a problem... I say go for it... I to am for the cropped look, it makes them look more regal in my opinion


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

I would say to do it, but it should be on the bottom of the list when it comes to things to be concerned about. Wait until their health is up and then start on things that aren't so important like cropping


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

Of course,we have a long month of vet visits ahead of us and I wouldn't expose them to injury which I find cropping to be,not before I make sure they are in a shape of a normal pups.Which again gets my guilty conciseness going,after what they've been through,put them in bandages again.That regal look is a mofo.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Well I know puppys ears change when they are teething, so between 4-6 months, but most vets do not like to crop past 3 months or so. I know some vets go to a year, but the ear cartilage is more established, firmer, so MY OPINION is it must hurt more, lol. Totally not expert or vet opinion, lol. I love a natural rose prick ear. There are very few crops that I like. Totally my opinion. Totally to each their own. Just make sure you find a vet you TRUST and one you have seen his work on. I have heard many people say they went in looking for one style and the vet was not on the same page and they were not happy. I also want to say some pups really express themselves in their ears, My boy totally does. Seeing as I don't have a cropped dog, it makes me wonder if you can still read their ears in order to access their anxiety and mood based off their position just as easy when they are gone, but I would think it would be harder.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Cropping is a personal preference, majority of Bulldogs with cropped ears are super curs.. Some are show, some are pets.. Some that are also, "pro-cropping" are hunters.

Personally i prefer natural appearance and over all care, conditioning, etc.. I'd rather see people own any breed that serves a purpose and earns keep vs. any "debate" of crop no crop, show no show, etc.

Anyway, it all boils down to you want as you're the one feeding the animal(s), no one else is.

Don't be fooled by media portraying and ignorance, ear cropping has nothing to do with "dog fighting"..


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

The older they are the more it is going to hurt,and I'm aware of that,partially that's why I have this pressure to decide as soon as possible.Most vets here wouldn't do it after 3 months,no way,at least licensed,working ones.We have a few vets options,since our guy now doesn't seem to give a fork as long as he promotes Royal Canin.I'm really in favor of short crops,even battle crop looks better to me than the longer ones.I guess I'll have to rely on body language when it comes to mood swings,which I hope will be as rare as me going to sleep at a decent time lol.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

CroBlondie said:


> The older they are the more it is going to hurt,and I'm aware of that,partially that's why I have this pressure to decide as soon as possible.Most vets here wouldn't do it after 3 months,no way,at least licensed,working ones.We have a few vets options,since our guy now doesn't seem to give a fork as long as he promotes Royal Canin.I'm really in favor of short crops,even battle crop looks better to me than the longer ones.I guess I'll have to rely on body language when it comes to mood swings,which I hope will be as rare as me going to sleep at a decent time lol.


Ears alone have no bearing on being able to read your animal.. Knowing your dog like the back of your hand is the only thing that matters.

Ears can make it easier to read facial expressions, however if that is what you need to be able to understand your dog needs to use the bathroom, for instance.. (in other words, being able to read your dog) than you have a larger problem than just deciding on what to do with the ears.


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## Its.me.ashley (Aug 7, 2012)

I personally cannot justify doing it to my dog, and personally dont like the look to begin with, among many other reasons. but in the end it is for no other reason but aesthetics and if you feel that's how your pup would look best than it is your choice and yours alone. 


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## Kwhitaker0604 (Aug 6, 2012)

Since my girl came to me with her ears cropped, you learn to read the dogs expressions even without ears. (she has a poorly done battle crop) and honestly I like the look on some dogs. Some dogs it makes their heads look weird. Lol. But I'd say the biggest pain is keeping hiro's ears clean. Stuff gets in them so easily, especially when it's rainy. I had to get her a raincoat! Lol. All in all it's your decision, and it's purely aesthetic. If money isn't a problem and you have the patience to keep them clean, then why not?


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Don't bother me. It's a matter of opinion like circumcision. 


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Can't agree that the "majority of bulldogs with cropped ears are super curs", history disproves that, but I also enjoy the natural look...and I've had both. Keep the ears.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Saint Francis said:


> Can't agree that the "majority of bulldogs with cropped ears are super curs", history disproves that, but I also enjoy the natural look...and I've had both. Keep the ears.


Modern day proves it, which was mostly what i was referring to.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

So where do you stand on color and curs? LOL! I get what you are saying though...image is not everything when it comes to bulldogs, except maybe in rap videos.


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## Pink (Jun 29, 2011)

CroBlondie said:


> What is the main reason you did it?
> 
> Would do it again and the opposite?
> 
> Do you think badly of owners that do crop for nothing but their preference?


The main reason I cropped is because my dog is shown.. And, I just plain ol' like the look of a nice, clean crop.

I'd absolutely do it again, and will with future pups.

And, obviously not. Lol.


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

Pink,if you're talking about the boy in your avatar picture,he looks stunning.The crop really gets them from super cute to ULTRA-MEGA amazing.Of course,given that is done properly and matches their head.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

crop has nothing to do with fighting. crop can be done with a laser and its pain free. it all goes back to if you like the look and want to put up with a few weeks of wrapping or not


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

it is a personal choice, I chose to crop I like the look better , think they look regal and that is my choice. We didn't crop one dog we had and we regretted it every day , I hated the natural floppy look he had , all goofy an such compared to our other dogs. I will never have another natural eared dog unless they come to me as an adult uncropped.


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## Pink (Jun 29, 2011)

CroBlondie said:


> Pink,if you're talking about the boy in your avatar picture,he looks stunning.The crop really gets them from super cute to ULTRA-MEGA amazing.Of course,given that is done properly and matches their head.


Yep, that's him. Thank you. 

I agree.. A nice crop just gives them that "finished" look, IMO.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

I personally love the cropped look and this is coming from a rescuer/vet tech! That being said it's strictly a personal preference and done solely for cosmetic reasons. I can tell you I look at my girl EVERY day and just get filled with pride at how awesome and beautiful my girl is, the cropped ears just give a very regal look in my opinion. As long as it's done by a vet with proper anesthesia then I do not see anything cruel about it, simply a means to help you enjoy your dog that much more for the next 18 years!


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## Jazzy&Veronica (Mar 18, 2011)

Definitely a matter of personal preference; although I agree with the sentiment of crop young and professionally if you are going to do it.

Personally, I don't generally care for the look of a crop on a pit bull.

But then I don't generally care for the look of non cropped ears on a Dobe; and I would one day love to have a Dogo - and I think I prefer cropped to non-cropped in that breed as well.

There's really no rhyme or reason to it.


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

I don't feel so bad about the idea anymore,especially after angelbaby's post.I know I will regret not having them cropped,it's just that I need to justify the idea to myself before I do it.And,even tho some of the members are strongly against it,majority is indifferent or even up for it which makes me think-if such good pit owners don't have a problem with it,there is no reason for me to feel like I'm some dog molester over nothing.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

You will get rude remarks from people so be prepared, those who are against it are strongly against it. I have had ladys walk by and shake there head at me and mutter words like disgusting, luckly one of them had some ugly yappy mutt with her acting out towards my dog and I was able to mutter some choice words for her and her dog back lol. But then again owning this breed in general you will encounter stupid ignorant people with rude remarks so hopefully your skin is already thick. 

As far as recovery the 1st day is the worst . I have been in tears from the reaction of one of my dogs { apparently it was just to the anesthesia wearing off} , most of my dogs the vet has kept over night so I didn't have to deal with that , but be prepared if they come home early. then after that I swear they hardly noticed other then the annoying cone mine acted normal within 48 hours after the meds wore off. Is was about 10 days from the surgery to when the stitches came out and then the only care needed is if they need there ears taped to stand, go shorter they usually wont need that. 

The way I see it , it is no worse then any other elective surgery . Neuter/spay { although for good reasons at times is still elective , a dog doesn't need that . It is a easy way for owners to get around dealing with heats and unwanted breedings ,but the dog itself doesn't need that }, Tail cropping { done with many breeds for esthetics , some are done for breed specific reasons. But a dog wont die from having his tail intact even if it is breed standard}. 

Do what you want with your dog for YOU and not anyone else. Who cares if people like the look you do , You have to feed and look at that dog for it's life so make you happy.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I HATE when cropping is compared to spaying and neutering, totally not even in the same ballpark. One might help your dog avoid the possibility of getting cancer, not just puppy prevention surgery for owners who don't watch their dogs well. If I am not mistaken, there is no medical reason for an ear crop and even ear infections can occur more frequent to dogs with crops. (BUT dogs with super floppy ears also get ear infections and might not have gotten them with a crop). Although ear infections could be a health problem it no where near the same thing as a spay or neuter. Its not elective to try and prevent cancer, it preventative. 

It really gets me though, When done correctly there are no problems as a result of a S/N. Studies and research prove it has MANY more benefits to your dog than just preventing possible pregnancy.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

I don't mind cropped ears on a dog, but I personally prefer a nice set of natural ears.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Amy I will have to disagree with you lol. I do see a positive point to spay neuter and wont tell people not too, But the cancer issue I have heard vets say they use that as an excuse to pursuade people to fix there dogs. That infact the chance of cancer is never that high to begin with. But im sure there are cases where it has helped just think majority there isn't and was unnessesary IF done for that reason alone. But to each there own just like any other elective surgery. When I say it as elective I feel it is just that, elective meaning if it isn't done it won't lead to there death or pain. 

The ear infection thing I don't know the studys or proof of it so I can only go on my experience. My boy who was not cropped had on average more ear infections then all my cropped dogs combined, although one of my cropped dogs has been battling ear infections since we got him , not sure that is due to a crop or just allergy related. I always heard the cropped dogs had less cause there ear canal was exposed so that moisture dry's faster where as the ones with natural ears it is closed off and makes it a better place to harbour moisture and bacteria, But again I have no study to offer proof on this.


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## Nanzalone (Aug 7, 2012)

Looks good on the dog personally. My pit doesn't have cropped ears just cause i think it looks ouchie (painful), but hey if you like it, go for it.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I have both uncropped and natural. Looks alone is the difference. Non are afraid of the vet or harder to read or have any difference that are ear based other than looks. 

As someone else said if you can afford it and want it go ahead, but think of training, housing and needs before wants. I prefer a crop personally.


As for spay and neuter not its not the same but altering has just as many increased risk factors that CAN happen as reason why altering CAN help with things. No healthly or unhealthy issues are for sure to happen. However both surgeries are not necessary and are preference. Some people don't want to keep dog separate or deal with bleeding, some people want a look they like.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I like crops and don't have any problems with them! However I think some dogs get cropped and totally do not have the face for it, or the crop is terrible. Then there are other who really should be cropped because they have huge floppy ears...

I like a good looking crop! I would however take natural ears over a funky crop or a dog with the wrong head for a crop  hope that made sense...


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## cgEvan (Jul 26, 2012)

If you're worried what others will think, don't, because like others have said you'll get comments and opinions (unwanted at that) just for having a pit/bull dog in general.

I was having the same inner conflict as you're having. After a while, I knew I would reget not having it done, so I called multiple vets for prices and general info (and hours on here!). Found the place I was comfortable with and set up an appt for a consultation. Dropped him off on a Friday morning at 7:30 and picked him up Saturday morning at 11. The vet tech said he kept trying to play with other dogs, and as soon as we got home he went right for playing with the great dane (did I mention the ears looked AWESOME!) We kept a close eye on him since it was so soon, even seperated them because the puppy wouldn't leave the great dane alone. The crop didn't seem to phase him... I'd even go as far as to say his ears didn't hurt. You could touch them and he showed no signs of discomfort. I've seen more pain from other dogs, from just simple vaccinations.

Now, being fully healed, when we take him out, people make comments. "Poor baby!!!", "Oh, that must have hurt so bad!!!", "Your mommy and daddy are so mean for chopping off your ears!!"

Not only was he put to sleep, but it was done by laser, he was kept over night, received antibiotics and pain pills, and didn't seem to care! Shows how ignorant people can be and shows me how little their opinions matter.

There will always be people to state they don't like crops, and there's nothing wrong with that. I like crops on certain dogs, and I'm entitled to that opinion. If you're in love with crops on your type of dog and can afford the procedure without making your puppy sacrifice health, do it. Just don't forget, you're responsible for making sure the healing process is taken care of.

Good luck with your decision!!


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

Thank you for all your kind words,you cleared things up for me.I want it,and the crop I'm going for needs to look better than cute normal ears(I prefer dobie like sleek short crop,I'm sorry if I'm difficult to understand,cannot think of a term that expresses it better).

The worst fear I'm having is making them look real stupid,and I'm thinking of doing it on just one girl because the lighter one(Ripley)has a shorter muzzle,at this point almost resembles a Chihuahua lol,and I don't feel like her look will get better with crop(you are always welcomed to go to the picture section and give me some advice on crop for each from visual point of view,because all I have now is my inner feeling,and it's not much given that I have never spend more than 10 minutes with bullydog owner in person so I'm always basically guessing).
Me bf on the other hand,suggest that only she should get cropped and I'm like wtf?? We are going to get mutilated mutts for the sake of our ignorance and I'm not gonna participate in that.

So,at the end we will ask few vets for suggestions,but I don't think they really care or even know more about crop looks than crop-loving pit owner,so that's that.

We will still wait a bit till their heads get bigger,this decision is really important to me,and I want badly to enhance their look not just do it on the off chance that irreversible damage won't happen.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

If you decide to get it done bring in some pictures of crops you like , show the vet EXACTLY what you want. 
here is a good diagram to help you get started. I prefer the medium between show and short but to each there own. 









You can take a look at peoples dog on here I think there are threads on crops you can use the search up top on, if you find a style you really like just ask the owner most on here will volunteer the info you need


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Croblondie looks like you got the right idea and I am glad you are doing your research  whatever you decide I hope YOU are happy with your decision. 

Angel I agree totally wish there were studies but since every dog is different it must be hard to conduct the study. 

What I know is there are many more reasons to speuter than preventing pregnancy. IF a dog was to get cancer, not saying all dog do and I know it's a low percentage, it would not be the most common cancer among dogs which is ovarian and testicular. Removing them takes away the risk of it happening 100%. Also, on average, dogs who are not intact live 2-4 years longer. I didn't do it because I didn't want to have to worry about my dog impregnating a bitch. That would not happen regardless. Sorry to be gross and hope i don't offend but I was then able to see the awesome side effects of no nastyness, for lack of a better word, I have referred to it as dick cheese. You all know what I am talking about I know you do!! lol that going away was literally the second best thing about it for me lol number one is my boys focus. I had no idea but all dogs are different in that regard.


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## RealRasta (Jul 16, 2012)

In all honesty.. It's merely esthetics in almost all situation these days. Only rarely in working dogs is it necessary to crop ears.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

AMY, LMFAO @ Dick cheese. That is the 1st time I have heard of that being used as a benefit to neutering, I will admit a good benefit LMAO....


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

angelbaby said:


> AMY, LMFAO @ Dick cheese. That is the 1st time I have heard of that being used as a benefit to neutering, I will admit a good benefit LMAO....


seriously number 2 reason for me! hahahahaha Number 3 is NO MORE MARKING lol (but I found out i could have trained that out of him if I had know to begin with, live and learn lol) so for me I had a bunch of positives.


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

This doggie has what I'm looking for in a crop.


Short(if it's something else and not short,correct me)and no ear bell (if I understood correctly what it represents even,again).However,this ear is exactly what I want,but no one can guarantee it'll suit my dogs.The more I'm seeing pics of badly done crops or crop styles,the more nervous I'm getting.What are the main aspects of being satisfied with the crop?Luck with a vet,exact wish from owner or something else?

Have you ever cropped a dog and felt unsatisfied when ears completely healed?Why was it?


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

At first I was unsatisfied, thought they were to short, plus it was a shock seeing my girl without ears, however as she matured I love them and think they're just perfect for her! I thinl alot of time the crop (as long as it's not done horribly) just grows on you even if it's not what you first pictured. Does that make since?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Don't judge a crop by what you see when the bandages come off, I swear they look horrible at 1st and I have had that Oh no feeling, but after a while they heal and it looks alot better. My boy Zekes ears kill me but I got him this way as an adult , they did a horrible crop on him looks like they took a triangle and traced it and did it backwards lol, then they obviously were not taped so they flop now and since he is sol much older I don't think taping will help, I have tried mole skin and it didn't do much. 

Just get a vet who knows what they are doing, if you can get a breeder to recommend one. Doesn't have to be a breeder of this breed just look for breeds who do alot of crops, danes, dobys, bouviers, ect ect . Also ask the vet for refrences or pictures of his work. Vets can say they have 10 years experience or more but if they are only doing 1-2 crops a year that isn't much, so find one who has done alot of them and then bring in pictures with you and make it clear on the look you want. Our vet lets us in the back with him for that 1st ear and we can make sure and double check the length and all is right before he finishes up and wakes them up.


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

I told my man about the doubts I have concerning head shape appropriate crop.He thought of consulting with his friend who is a reputable breeder of Amstaffs here(and all his dogs are cropped really nicely,at least the ones I've seen in person). Fortunately,the man said that he would gladly take a look at our dogs to see if we should even crop when the dogs get around 12-13 pounds and referred us to his vet who does all his show dogs.

That kinda calmed me down,but nonetheless I will ask for the vet to give me the time of the day and answer all of my questions(and god knows I have lots of them lol).

Angelbaby,I will surely ask of our vet,whoever he ends up being,if I can check half way through the process,thanks for mentioning it!


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## catchrcall (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm not anti ear cropping, but I'm anti ear cropping on MY dogs. I'm an avid hog hunter and use my bulldogs to catch so I have no use for a cropped ear. Most hunters don't. That cropped ear is just a funnel for every piece of dirt, cedar needle, water and whatever else wants to fall in there. No thanks for me. 

What you do with your dogs is your business.


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## Kenaii (Dec 22, 2011)

I have absolutely no problem with Ear Cropping. Personally, If it was my dog I would try to Lazer the ears, but it can be hard to find a vet that will use the Lazer Method.
I also wouldn't crop a dog unless it was for show purposes, like if a pup went full prick, but had otherwise perfect conformation, I would definately crop. If the pup went full prick, but was intended to be a house dog, in my honest opinion there would be no good reason to crop.
I also don't think a crop makes a dog look "Mean". I just think it looks good.


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## Brucie (Jun 30, 2012)

CroBlondie said:


> First day on this forum and no sleep for me I guess lol.Since I'm already here,might as well ask something that weighs heavily on my mind for 2 weeks now.
> So,in all honesty how do members here feel about cropping? I really like short crop on pits but I feel like such a douche for feeling this way.No matter where I turn,there is no justification for my urge to crop except for the fact that it pleases me estetically.
> It's like,I have pit mutts that surely won't pass as Amstaff  in dog shows (I adore shows,and my bf's Dogo is a dog show veteran,so he had an excuse to crop ).
> I've seen that many experienced owners here who have great pits left them with natural ears,so I'm not sure if I'm in for some hardcore bash but be honest.
> ...


Strongly against any sort of mutilation on any species.

Circumcision on males and females, ear cropping, tail cropping. How would you like if your ears were chopped off. Other than aesthetics, there are absolutely no benefit what so ever to cropping ears. And I don't want to hear about that bs argument of ear infection prevention cause that is a lie.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

Brucie said:


> Strongly against any sort of mutilation on any species.
> 
> Circumcision on males and females, ear cropping, tail cropping. How would you like if your ears were chopped off. Other than aesthetics, there are absolutely no benefit what so ever to cropping ears. And I don't want to hear about that bs argument of ear infection prevention cause that is a lie.


You need to calm down and be respectful! Ear cropping is a personal option and if done right there is no problem with having it done. Nobody is being mean or harsh about people choosing to keep there dogs ears so you need not be about someone cropping. State your option polity and move on as others have.

Sorry guys but that reply irked me.


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## cgEvan (Jul 26, 2012)

Aireal said:


> You need to calm down and be respectful! Ear cropping is a personal option and if done right there is no problem with having it done. Nobody is being mean or harsh about people choosing to keep there dogs ears so you need not be about someone cropping. State your option polity and move on as others have.
> 
> Sorry guys but that reply irked me.


Can't blame you. Your post saved me from possibly saying too much.

Ear cropping isn't mutilating. Breast augmentations aren't mutilating. Most pits/bullies aren't even phased by the procedure. You can have your opinion against it, but saying we have mutilated our loved animals is absurd and unwelcome.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

cgEvan said:


> Can't blame you. Your post saved me from possibly saying too much.
> 
> Ear cropping isn't mutilating. Breast augmentations aren't mutilating. Most pits/bullies aren't even phased by the procedure. You can have your opinion against it, but saying we have mutilated our loved animals is absurd and unwelcome.


agreed, that post got me riled lol


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Aireal said:


> You need to calm down and be respectful! Ear cropping is a personal option and if done right there is no problem with having it done. Nobody is being mean or harsh about people choosing to keep there dogs ears so you need not be about someone cropping. State your option polity and move on as others have.
> 
> Sorry guys but that reply irked me.


Nothing to be sorry for, I left this room when I seen that post my response would not have been so nice last night. I don't mutilate my dog, I suggest he goes and reads the deffinition of mutilate. People can have there opinions but remember there are rules here about attacking other members and saying people mutilate there animals is going to start some problems.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

sorry but it IS mutilation, by definition. Need to accept it. Any surgery, breast argumentation on a human or animal is mutilation. Don't be afraid to call a spade a spade if that's what you're into. I mutilated my dog to remove his balls, you mutilate yours to remove their ears.

Kinda like the word Mutt, its not BAD, it is what it is people. Why take offense when that is what you are doing?

mu·ti·late   [myoot-l-eyt] 
verb (used with object), mu·ti·lat·ed, mu·ti·lat·ing.
1. to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts
2. to deprive (a person or animal) of a limb or other essential part.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

ames said:


> sorry but it IS mutilation, by definition. Need to accept it. Any surgery, breast argumentation on a human or animal is mutilation. Don't be afraid to call a spade a spade if that's what you're into. I mutilated my dog to remove his balls, you mutilate yours to remove their ears.
> 
> Kinda like the word Mutt, its not BAD, it is what it is people. Why take offense when that is what you are doing?
> 
> ...


Essential part or limb , the ear is not essential .


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

angelbaby said:


> Essential part or limb , the ear is not essential .


Agreed
Now that aside, it is also about tact. People can state use the word and not sound like a jer. Example
Something I would accept " I personally do not like the cropped look and feel is it senseless mutilation, but if your going to do it make sure it's by a professional."

The other response was ment to be an attack not a response which is why I got defensive, period!


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

angelbaby said:


> Essential part or limb , the ear is not essential .


neither are balls! lol To some, the ear is essential just like some feel being able to reproduce is essential on an individual dog. Sorry, I feel it still applies even if you don't like it, lol.

1. to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts
Definition one just says Disfigures, doesn't say essential or anything, so the argument isn't applied that you don't "need" ears, changing them at all counts as disfiguring.

just saying it just words, yeah it could be phrased differently instead of just spitting it out there, but it is mutilation no matter how you look at it. Just saying some people don't like their dogs being called mutts the same way some don't like being told their mutilated their dogs ears...


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

Well if you want get into it then as I've said numerous times it's a matter of option. I do not feel ears are necessary, and I do not feel it disfiguring defined to impair (as in beauty) by deep and persistent injuries. I feel indeed it enhances the dogs beauty so therefore it's not an appropriate would.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Aireal said:


> Well if you want get into it then as I've said numerous times it's a matter of option. I do not feel ears are necessary, and I do not feel it disfiguring defined to impair (as in beauty) by deep and persistent injuries. I feel indeed it enhances the dogs beauty so therefore it's not an appropriate would.


totally you're right for how you feel! Just like I feel cropped ears take away from their beauty so for me it IS an appropriate word. I would not use it as hate or being mean or to make anyone feel bad and I think that's what you felt from the original person post that you didn't like very well. Totally understood. Its 100% a matter of opinion, never would I try to install mine onto someone else or judge them with what they chose to do, or feel they took less care of their dog than someone who has not cropped their ears. Not everyone is like that. I just think if you realize by definition it is correct, might take the sting out if someone tries to get a rise out of you by saying it.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

ames said:


> totally you're right for how you feel! Just like I feel cropped ears take away from their beauty so for me it IS an appropriate word. I would not use it as hate or being mean or to make anyone feel bad and I think that's what you felt from the original person post that you didn't like very well. Totally understood. Its 100% a matter of opinion, never would I try to install mine onto someone else or judge them with what they chose to do, or feel they took less care of their dog than someone who has not cropped their ears. Not everyone is like that. I just think if you realize by definition it is correct, might take the sting out if someone tries to get a rise out of you by saying it.


Lol I know darlin I don't blam you. Like I said if used non confrontational I'm ok with it. I just don't take feeling attacked well.


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

I get completely why some(including me)were a bit offended with that post.
There is a way of saying "mutt" and "mutilated" without being rude or inappropriate.It's all about the context.

Hell,I used both words combined in one earlier post and all was good.The feel and the way his sentence was constructed gave away true rage and full blown disrespect.There is a way in which point can be made and opinion given without coming off as extremely rude.

Furthermore,the whole thing was made worse for me because when I was reading it I felt like the member honestly intended to cause the reaction he did at last.

However,I know this is a sensitive subject and those against it are passionately against it so I don't take it too personal.But this thread alone sure as hell made clear to me I'd have to deal with the boiling hate from strangers a lot.

Being the delicate flower that I am lol,I will suffer inside the first few times,but it'll go away the second I see my beautifully cropped princesses <3.


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## cgEvan (Jul 26, 2012)

ames said:


> totally you're right for how you feel! Just like I feel cropped ears take away from their beauty so for me it IS an appropriate word. I would not use it as hate or being mean or to make anyone feel bad and I think that's what you felt from the original person post that you didn't like very well. Totally understood. Its 100% a matter of opinion, never would I try to install mine onto someone else or judge them with what they chose to do, or feel they took less care of their dog than someone who has not cropped their ears. Not everyone is like that. I just think if you realize by definition it is correct, might take the sting out if someone tries to get a rise out of you by saying it.


Think about it like this:

If you found a gay male repulsive, you wouldn't call him a fa**ot, out of respect for said gay person.

Fa**ot is slang for gay male, but in a derogatory manner. So it may be technical, but it's disrespectful to the person. You and others may find cropping unattractive or "mean", but it's an opinion and to call it mutilation comes off disrespective to others who find it attractive.

This is not an attack by any means, just trying to relate how I feel on the topic. The owners of dogs with cropped ears catch a lot of flack for it, so it gets a little old after a while, especially on a site such as this.

-Evan

PS- no offense towards any gays with my analogy.


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## Brucie (Jun 30, 2012)

Aireal said:


> You need to calm down and be respectful! Ear cropping is a personal option and if done right there is no problem with having it done. Nobody is being mean or harsh about people choosing to keep there dogs ears so you need not be about someone cropping. State your option polity and move on as others have.
> 
> Sorry guys but that reply irked me.


I was pretty calm when I wrote it, and those are MY FEELINGS. I didn't jusge anyone nor anyone else's comments. In fact you are the one who is not respectful of my feeling as you drew it out and opposed my opinion.

My feelings are MY FEELINGS. I didn't write them out for you to feel bad about cropping your dog's ears.



angelbaby said:


> Nothing to be sorry for, I left this room when I seen that post my response would not have been so nice last night. I don't mutilate my dog, I suggest he goes and reads the deffinition of mutilate. People can have there opinions but remember there are rules here about attacking other members and saying people mutilate there animals is going to start some problems.


Definition of MUTILATE

1
: to cut up or alter radically so as to make imperfect <the child mutilated the book with his scissors>
2
: to cut off or permanently destroy a limb or essential part of

...................

You were saying? And who was I attacking...we live in America and I can state how I feel when and where I want, where ever I want to. I never directed it at anyone.


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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

I find this thread interesting. You keep referring to your sensibilities and seem to be seeking validation in your decision. If you like the look it is your right (in this country anyway) to alter your dogs appearance to suit your whims. It is also everyone else's right to state why they may or may not agree with it.
I, personally, would not crop a rescued dog of unknown lineage, especially ones who had such a rough start, but that's MY opinion. You obviously share a different view. That's great, but have conviction for your view, don't do it because x amount of people say it is OK or not do it because others said it wasn't.
Do your research and arm yourself with facts (not conjecture) Be aware that all surgeries come with risk (this includes spay/neuter, dental cleanings etc.) It is interesting that a lot of vets keep crop pups overnight (while letting spay dogs go same day) so that the owners don't see how much pain the dogs are in initially. Interesting, but again, just something to factor in. If it's worth it to you, then it is.


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

Kingsgurl said:


> That's great, but have conviction for your view, don't do it because x amount of people say it is OK or not do it because others said it wasn't.
> Do your research and arm yourself with facts (not conjecture)... If it's worth it to you, then it is.


Ain't that the truth


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## catchrcall (Jul 8, 2012)

Kingsgurl's got a pretty good point. If you thoroughly research the subject, do your local legwork finding the right vet, and make an informed choice then there's really nothing to feel bad about.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

Kingsgurl said:


> I find this thread interesting. You keep referring to your sensibilities and seem to be seeking validation in your decision. If you like the look it is your right (in this country anyway) to alter your dogs appearance to suit your whims. It is also everyone else's right to state why they may or may not agree with it.
> I, personally, would not crop a rescued dog of unknown lineage, especially ones who had such a rough start, but that's MY opinion. You obviously share a different view. That's great, but have conviction for your view, don't do it because x amount of people say it is OK or not do it because others said it wasn't.
> Do your research and arm yourself with facts (not conjecture) Be aware that all surgeries come with risk (this includes spay/neuter, dental cleanings etc.) It is interesting that a lot of vets keep crop pups overnight (while letting spay dogs go same day) so that the owners don't see how much pain the dogs are in initially. Interesting, but again, just something to factor in. If it's worth it to you, then it is.


This is a very good post, I'll try to give you rep ify phone will let me. I agree don't look to others for approval, thus why you can find my Chezas " ruff start story" on here but my very first thread was asking advise on what type of crop I should do not weather I should crop or not.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

Kingsgurl said:


> I find this thread interesting. You keep referring to your sensibilities and seem to be seeking validation in your decision. If you like the look it is your right (in this country anyway) to alter your dogs appearance to suit your whims. It is also everyone else's right to state why they may or may not agree with it.
> I, personally, would not crop a rescued dog of unknown lineage, especially ones who had such a rough start, but that's MY opinion. You obviously share a different view. That's great, but have conviction for your view, don't do it because x amount of people say it is OK or not do it because others said it wasn't.
> Do your research and arm yourself with facts (not conjecture) Be aware that all surgeries come with risk (this includes spay/neuter, dental cleanings etc.) It is interesting that a lot of vets keep crop pups overnight (while letting spay dogs go same day) so that the owners don't see how much pain the dogs are in initially. Interesting, but again, just something to factor in. If it's worth it to you, then it is.


it makes me wonder what country you are from that does that. in the US they have lasers and you get your dog back within minutes


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

The dog is not out under Zohan? I think that's is horrible I the dog is awake during the surgery. Shoot I have seen idiots post "hey man gonna do some fades this weekend holla if you want in" I mean I don't even want to think about the sanitary conditions where they are getting it done. I always hoped all bet would put the dog under laser or not. Interesting...


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

ames said:


> The dog is not out under Zohan? I think that's is horrible I the dog is awake during the surgery. Shoot I have seen idiots post "hey man gonna do some fades this weekend holla if you want in" I mean I don't even want to think about the sanitary conditions where they are getting it done. I always hoped all bet would put the dog under laser or not. Interesting...


there are people who still do their own crops with a knife, i was refering to trained vets using the top technology of this day.

yes theyre awake and the dogs ive seen didnt care in the slightest


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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

Laser is much preferred. It doesn't eliminate the pain and they do use general anesthesia. I know of no vet who would cut a dogs ears off, with or without a laser, with the dog awake. Maybe there are medical advances I am not aware of

Ear Crop Surgery | Cupertino Animal Hospital


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

i suppose he coudlve been drugged and just bounced back real fast. the dogs ive seen drugged take awhile to snap out of it, the 2 i saw the laser done on were up and at it in no time


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## CroBlondie (Aug 8, 2012)

I thank you all for all of your input,and I really like the passion displayed from both sides,pro or anti-crop.I would love for the thread to remain open for discussion even tho I kinda decided I will probably do it when I get the proper consultation I mention earlier above.

I am getting used to the fact I will be judged one way or another and not doing what I would really love for my dogs because what someone else thinks is not a good decision in general.I am convinced my heart and soul is in a right place when it comes to these girls and therefore will do as I please.

There is always room for improvement and will be mine and their whole life,and this forum is indeed a valuable tool for me along the way!If the thread remains open,I will update for sure how the process goes and don't worry,I won't mess 'em up !


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

zohawn said:


> i suppose he coudlve been drugged and just bounced back real fast. the dogs ive seen drugged take awhile to snap out of it, the 2 i saw the laser done on were up and at it in no time


most likely they just used gas then, we have to do that for feral cats and when we cut rat or hamsters teeth. they are under but pretty much it starts to wear off the moment you remove the mask. they are completely just do not have the IV anesthetics you need for more in debt surgery.


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## Oje (Apr 14, 2012)

I usually stay out of these threads because I feel if youre cropping your dogs ears you should schedule an appointment with a doctor to have the tops of your ears cut off as well. People look at me like im nuts when i say that but i really dont see the difference. You dont need the tops of your ears the same way people say dogs dont so cut them off. Then at least when you tell people it doesnt hurt them, or it heals quickly...etc you can know the exact pain your dog went through because there is no way having pieces of your body cut off doesnt hurt for the next few days.

I got my dog because i like how he looks, floppy ears and everything. Ask people how they would feel about having the tops of their ears removed. If your dog could talk, it would probably have similiar answers to the people you ask.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

Darlin, if I liked the look of my ears bringing altered you can bet your booty I'd do it. So therefore that argument with me is invalid. Just luke how my mother at a surgeon ” chop” my sisters ears so she wouldn't have goofy looking dumbo ears her whole life like she was born with. Guess what she as a very pretty adult now is sure glad my mother had it done when she was young!


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## Oje (Apr 14, 2012)

The difference in putting yourself through it is you know the pain and discomfort you would endure and voluntarily do it. I have tattoos that didnt feel fun but i wanted them, doesnt mean id get my dog a tattoo.

Im also sure your sister could have grown up to be beautiful with the ears she had. Altering her ears was actually a very shallow decision. I had big ears when i was a kid too, my head grew into them and everything is fine now.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

Oje said:


> I usually stay out of these threads because I feel if youre cropping your dogs ears *you should schedule an appointment with a doctor to have the tops of your ears cut off as well*. People look at me like im nuts when i say that but i really dont see the difference. You dont need the tops of your ears the same way people say dogs dont so cut them off. Then at least when you tell people it doesnt hurt them, or it heals quickly...etc you can know the exact pain your dog went through because there is no way having pieces of your body cut off doesnt hurt for the next few days.
> 
> I got my dog because i like how he looks, floppy ears and everything. Ask people how they would feel about having the tops of their ears removed. If your dog could talk, it would probably have similiar answers to the people you ask.


love the psycho stuff, keep it comin


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## Pink (Jun 29, 2011)

zohawn said:


> love the psycho stuff, keep it comin


Lol, x2.

Oje, you ARE nuts. Quit comparing humans to dogs. Gets on my nerves.


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## cgEvan (Jul 26, 2012)

I didn't know dogs had cartilage in the tops of their ears...


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

LMAO love people who humanize there dogs....CRAZY


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

cgEvan said:


> Think about it like this:
> 
> If you found a gay male repulsive, you wouldn't call him a fa**ot, out of respect for said gay person.
> 
> ...


Its only derogatory in the manner the word it being used. As the ladies said above there are some ways if you use it that you know the person is using it as description or in a derogatory manner. I see where you are coming from though. I have a mutt, but people have commented in my past like its a bad thing to own a mutt. I love my boy mo matter what and dont try to pretend he is something else. Plus I know a lot of gays who call each other that lol. to each their own. I try to not let words themselves have so much power, that way people might not piss me off as much 

and for the record, I don't think a dog looks MEAN with a crop. There are some VERY nice crops on a lot of dogs on here. As a whole, I find I don't like it more than I do like it, for me, lol. I feel like I need to defend not liking crops like people have to defend why they like them sometimes, hahaha.


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## Brucie (Jun 30, 2012)

ames said:


> Its only derogatory in the manner the word it being used. As the ladies said above there are some ways if you use it that you know the person is using it as description or in a derogatory manner. I see where you are coming from though. I have a mutt, but people have commented in my past like its a bad thing to own a mutt. I love my boy mo matter what and dont try to pretend he is something else. Plus I know a lot of gays who call each other that lol. to each their own. I try to not let words themselves have so much power, that way people might not piss me off as much
> 
> and for the record, I don't think a dog looks MEAN with a crop. There are some VERY nice crops on a lot of dogs on here. As a whole, I find I don't like it more than I do like it, for me, lol. I feel like I need to defend not liking crops like people have to defend why they like them sometimes, hahaha.


This is a very classy way to put it!

I am not anti crop...do with your dog what you want (as long as his/her life is not in danger of any sort)

BUT, I am very PRO EARS. It is one thing to demean others for their own decisions, because I am sure everyone has lifestyle choices they make other than the way they treat their animals that may disgust people...yet it would be disrespectful to demean them on their beliefs.

I think what me and Ames have been trying to get across, is the belief of PRO EARS not anti crop. I find some of the PRO CROP belief crowd are actually the one who are offending the PRO EARS crowd. I simply gave my belief, and if you go back and read my post...I wasn't just targeting ears. I am completely anti mutilation, whether it is circumcision, tails or ears (but I do believe in getting your dog fixed because it has many pros and little cons). And I get 3 posts attacking my view point from being offended? That is pretty disrespectful and imposing on the PRO EAR belief crowd.

Again being PRO EARS doesn't mean we hate everyone who crops their dog's ears, we are sharing our belief, yet it seems like almost all PRO CROP crowd have to defend their position, that should say something about their actions and needing to justify themselves. This is unnecessary because you are imposing your beliefs. Same for some of the PRO EARS group, Oje you are crazy lol.


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