# CHAMP HELP HELP HELP



## red dragon (Mar 23, 2010)

ok so i got champ for a protection dog hes full blooded APBT hes 5 months old and weights 40 pounds his parents look nice with big heads and weight about 70 pounds. my question is how big IN INCHES do you think his head will be when hes full grown another dog breeder said maybe 24 inches what do you guys think and in the pic his right ear was laying on his head but is fixed now all help is wanted


----------



## beccaboo (Dec 27, 2009)

this isn't quite the breed for a protection dog. besides that- there is no wat to "guestimate" how big his head is gonna be unless he comesfrom dogs producind consistency and even then there may be differences. he'll be mostly done growin by age 2 and then you'll know... as for the adult weight- the standard is usually take the weight at 4 months and double it. my boy was about 35 so his supposed adult weight will be 70 and so on... that help any?


----------



## ganja (Feb 11, 2010)

lol, are you a troll?


----------



## red dragon (Mar 23, 2010)

lol come on guys ill im wanting is some guestimates like did your dog look like him when he was 5 months old and how big did he get? and is champ big for 5 months old?


----------



## DarkMoon (Nov 26, 2009)

*groans* why does everyone get a Pit bull for "protection" when they make HORRIBLE guard dogs? All they are going to do is lick the intruder when they walk in, then grab the remote to the TV as the Intruder walks out with it to remind them that they left it behind? It's another common myth that ruins the breed.

As for head size, who knows. It's impossible to tell. Looks like he's going to be just another normal pit bull. Any breeder that breeds for a "huge head" isn't a breeder I'd ever give money too so it sounds like you got the dog from a sub-par breeder. Just because the parents had one doesn't mean your boy will have one. He honestly just looks like a normal Pit Bull to me.

Cute guy. Enjoy him and if you want protection, buy an alarm system and/or a gun. They will keep you safer then your dog.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

red dragon said:


> lol come on guys ill im wanting is some guestimates like did your dog look like him when he was 5 months old and how big did he get? and is champ big for 5 months old?


1) APBT is a terrible choice for protection or guarding, if you read the UKC or ABDA standard you will find that any kind of human agressions is a flaw and the dog must be put down. if you are looking to purposely make this dog human agressive, you need re-think why you want to own a dog in general.

2) Asking about head size shows your lack of knowledge of the breed. my suggestion is that you start reading some material before your dog and you make 5'o clock news.

3) APBT's aren't supossed to be huge dogs, they are medium size dogs if you wanted a huge headed muscled dog to intimidate people once again sir you got the dog for the wrong reasons. Although I doubt with your lack of knowledge that you could handle a guarding breed.

4) Do the dog a favor and the pitbull comunity a favor, if you have negative malicious intentions for this dog please rehome the dog, there are millions of them being put down. this breed is persecuted all over the globe because of owners that think like you. This breed was never meant to protect or attack people. This breed was not mean to look vicious or incredible huge, this breed was created to love people and please its family. Also to combat in the pit but since that is no longer legal you only have one real reason.


----------



## red dragon (Mar 23, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> 1) APBT is a terrible choice for protection or guarding, if you read the UKC or ABDA standard you will find that any kind of human agressions is a flaw and the dog must be put down. if you are looking to purposely make this dog human agressive, you need re-think why you want to own a dog in general.
> 
> 2) Asking about head size shows your lack of knowledge of the breed. my suggestion is that you start reading some material before your dog and you make 5'o clock news.
> 
> ...


umm where to start i know way more about PROTECTION DOGS then you i have owned many CANARY DOGS THAT HAVE weight 100+ pounds and if you know anything about anything you would know that CHAMP is being sent off to PROTECTION dog school so hes can love peopl all he wants but the commands he will learn just like the many CANARY dogs i have owned will be ATTACK and SPEAK(bark) and stand so even though since im new to the APBT i have owned way more PROTECTION/dangerous dog breeds than you all i ask was what did you all think hes head size would be 
so even thought your a stupid dog owner that thinks you know eveything about eveything GET A LIFE and do use all a favor and give your little mut a ew home and fix YOU LACK OF KNOWLEGE


----------



## red dragon (Mar 23, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> 1)
> 
> 3) APBT's aren't supossed to be huge dogs, they are medium size dogs if you wanted a huge headed muscled dog to intimidate people once again sir you got the dog for the wrong reasons. Although I doubt with your lack of knowledge that you could handle a guarding breed.
> 
> ...


----------



## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

All I'm gonna say is, Don't feed the trolls ;-)


----------



## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

*STOP!!!!* As he stated he's new to Pit Bulls. There are ways to address his questions without beating on the person. If someone is new to Pit Bull's they may not know the difference between an APBT, AmBully or AmStaff. There are several portent members here on gp that do protection work with their APBT's. How is someone going to learn or want to be part of this forum if all you're going to do is jump them. JMO!


----------



## echs332000 (Jan 10, 2010)

Elvisfink said:


> *STOP!!!!* As he stated he's new to Pit Bulls. There are ways to address his questions without beating on the person. If someone is new to Pit Bull's they may not know the difference between an APBT, AmBully or AmStaff. There are several portent members here on gp that do protection work with their APBT's. How is someone going to learn or want to be part of this forum if all you're going to do is jump them. JMO!


I agree, But i have to see where these other people are coming from. The OP just sounds ignorant.

I think everyone needs to lighten up and choose a better way to inform people of their mistakes. Once you jump on someone and make them defensive, then everything you say is going to go through one ear and out the other.

An OP, if your going to disrespect someone because they are giving you sound information, then i suggest you go live in a closet. You cant flip off the handle everytime someone says something that you dont agree with.

My answer to your question is this,

A pitbull is a horrible guard dog. To teach him to be HA is going against the grain. Years and years of breeding has taught the APBT to be a human companion. All your going to do is create a unstable dog IMO

IF you wanted a protection dog, then you should have gotten a Jack Russell Terrier. Arent they number one in the country for dog bites? haha


----------



## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Elvisfink said:


> *STOP!!!!* As he stated he's new to Pit Bulls. There are ways to address his questions without beating on the person. If someone is new to Pit Bull's they may not know the difference between an APBT, AmBully or AmStaff. There are several portent members here on gp that do protection work with their APBT's. How is someone going to learn or want to be part of this forum if all you're going to do is jump them. JMO!


:goodpost:


----------



## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

to the op,there really is no way to guess as to what their head size will be.It all depends on bloodlines,genetics,etc.... APBT's come in alot of different shapes and sizes.
I can't tell you what mine was because I've never measured their heads.

As far as if he's big for 5 months,I would say for an apbt yes.For an Ambully,no.Which may be what you have.
To the outside person,or noob if you will,the ambully looks one in the same as an apbt.Mainly because that's what breeders pass them off as.But sometimes because some of them do look just like bigger versions of the apbt.


----------



## red dragon (Mar 23, 2010)

dixieland said:


> to the op,there really is no way to guess as to what their head size will be.It all depends on bloodlines,genetics,etc.... APBT's come in alot of different shapes and sizes.
> I can't tell you what mine was because I've never measured their heads.
> 
> As far as if he's big for 5 months,I would say for an apbt yes.For an Ambully,no.Which may be what you have.
> To the outside person,or noob if you will,the ambully looks one in the same as an apbt.Mainly because that's what breeders pass them off as.But sometimes because some of them do look just like bigger versions of the apbt.


well champ didnt come with papers but MY BEST FRIEND ALSO THE BREEDER says hes a game bred APBT hes moma is a trained PROTECTION dog and his daddy is used for there catch dog for hog hunting. my friend talked me into getting him because his moma is such a good protection dog that he should be the same


----------



## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Are you talking about Schutzhund? Does she do bite work and agility shows?


----------



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

kg420 said:


> Are you talking about Schutzhund? Does she do bite work and agility shows?


i believe he is talking about real protection, teaching the dog to protect the owner and property on command. Yes some apbt make good based on the love for the owner, master. in light of the head question no real answer from me, all I can say is a apbt or bully does have a great deal of muscle behind the head at the top of the neck.(making the head seem larger around ) so it can grow with work like spring pole or heavy tug and bite work. Which is why i assume you have interest in the size of his head, seeing that it will help him to have a good bite?


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Wow really guys? No one here has ever wondered about head size? I am interested in my dogs head size. Does it mean anything? Nope. I just like pittie heads. They are big and cute.

UKC Breed Standard Quote :
"The APBT head is unique and a key element of breed type. It is large and broad, giving the impression of great power,"

As for a protection dogs if you are doing actual bite work or protection training that is not the same as just having an untrained to for guard dog purposes. Not sure which the OP is up too. 

How did Ambullies get in here? The dog looks nothing like an Ambully.


----------



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> Wow really guys? No one here has ever wondered about head size? I am interested in my dogs head size. Does it mean anything? Nope. I just like pittie heads. They are big and cute.
> 
> UKC Breed Standard Quote :
> "The APBT head is unique and a key element of breed type. It is large and broad, giving the impression of great power,"
> ...


Sorry some one brought up bully and yes head size is a major key to the look of the dog but also key to protection work, I also do protection with my boy as well as schutzhund. I also have measured my dogs head ( 21 and a half 17 at 8 months, if that helps) and at 1 year 3 months he is still growing. I was just stating that overall head size is critical in the biting or stopping power of a protection dog.


----------



## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

Do the parents look like dog

A.)









or dog

B.)









If you have an APBT and not an AmericanBully then expect your dog to have a small head and be lean and if well conditioned muscular (Dog B).
If you have a bully (dog A) well, your gonna have a big dog. head, chest ect. but your not gonna know how big his head will be until he is a year old and then expect him to fill out untill he is 2 years.

have you meassured his head? maybe that can help some really knowledgable members on here with guessing his size.


----------



## BittersweetEmbrace (Feb 24, 2010)

you have a Cute dog on your hands  About head size though, sorry i have no Pittie yet so i can't help you there.....or about the protection either. But if you need help on anything else let me know and i'm sure i can help you in another department! (I've been steered by the best)  Seeya round'!


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Rudy4747 said:


> Sorry some one brought up bully and yes head size is a major key to the look of the dog but also key to protection work, I also do protection with my boy as well as schutzhund. I also have measured my dogs head ( 21 and a half 17 at 8 months, if that helps) and at 1 year 3 months he is still growing. I was just stating that overall head size is critical in the biting or stopping power of a protection dog.


My post was just an over all for the thread, not directed at you in specific


----------



## red dragon (Mar 23, 2010)

RileyRoo said:


> Do the parents look like dog
> 
> A.)
> 
> ...


his parents are not bullys but the do have nice heads on the.


----------



## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

red dragon said:


> well champ didnt come with papers but MY BEST FRIEND ALSO THE BREEDER says hes a game bred APBT hes moma is a trained PROTECTION dog and his daddy is used for there catch dog for hog hunting. my friend talked me into getting him because his moma is such a good protection dog that he should be the same


I highly doubt the dog you have is gamebred. Not taking nothing away from your dog. But trying to use this breed for protection is pointless its not in them. There are plenty of other breeds out there for this kind of work. Don't try to come back at me with the whole "He only attacks on commands" Bull.... This breed is on the verge of getting banned all over the place don't help speed up the process buddy.

But calling someone stupid that has owned this breed alot longer than you is ignorant on your part.


----------



## ghosthellz (Apr 9, 2010)

The breed definitly does not need anymore bad rep thats for sure...I even noticed on kijiji here in novascotia canada there is no more pitbulls for sale?? i think they stopped them from posting pitbulls


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

red dragon said:


> umm where to start i know way more about PROTECTION DOGS then you i have owned many CANARY DOGS THAT HAVE weight 100+ pounds and if you know anything about anything you would know that CHAMP is being sent off to PROTECTION dog school so hes can love peopl all he wants but the commands he will learn just like the many CANARY dogs i have owned will be ATTACK and SPEAK(bark) and stand so even though since im new to the APBT i have owned way more PROTECTION/dangerous dog breeds than you all i ask was what did you all think hes head size would be
> so even thought your a stupid dog owner that thinks you know eveything about eveything GET A LIFE and do use all a favor and give your little mut a ew home and fix YOU LACK OF KNOWLEGE


I've been around Presas, Corsos, German Shepherds and I can tell you that they differ greatly from a pit dog. You don't need to teach a guard breed to attack or guard, if you got them working stock they should do this naturally. So I wonder where all of this knowledge you seem to posses comes from?:rofl:

My mutt as you'd like to call it is a UKC registered Canine Good Citizen American Pitbull Terrier. You probably have 1/4 of the intelligence that he has, and thankfully I am not teaching my pitbull to attack people or bark so he will not make a fool of me in the street or become part of the news:clap: In fact I plan on doing therapy work with him and hopefully compete in obedience trials big guy, I wonder why you'd go from owning a Presa Canario that is a naturally bred guarding to a human friendly Pit and trying to make it a guard dog and send it to guard school lolol?

I actually have a life and I have a decent job and an awesome family. I also have respect for people and animals and I would never train my dog to hurt either one:roll:

If you want a protection dog why don't you man up and lift some weights, take some karate classes lolol and get a gun and do things for your self instead of making a dog your guarding macho man


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

red dragon said:


> davidfitness83 said:
> 
> 
> > 1)
> ...


----------



## ghosthellz (Apr 9, 2010)

Rudy4747 said:


> i believe he is talking about real protection, teaching the dog to protect the owner and property on command. Yes some apbt make good based on the love for the owner, master. in light of the head question no real answer from me, all I can say is a apbt or bully does have a great deal of muscle behind the head at the top of the neck.(making the head seem larger around ) so it can grow with work like spring pole or heavy tug and bite work. Which is why i assume you have interest in the size of his head, seeing that it will help him to have a good bite?


I agree with this... my pitbull is very protective of me and my home with no training at all. This being said it can also be a very bad situation if im not on the ball when strangers come. I would rather him not be like this at all, as stated before the breed has enough bad rep


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

watch me get banned for deffending my self


----------



## ghosthellz (Apr 9, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> watch me get banned for deffending my self


No you wont i think it was justified


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

ghosthellz said:


> I agree with this... my pitbull is very protective of me and my home with no training at all. This being said it can also be a very bad situation if im not on the ball when strangers come. I would rather him not be like this at all, as stated before the breed has enough bad rep


:goodpost:


----------



## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

I am confused. what does head size have to do with PP?

to add.

there are Sch dogs on here and not ONE has a bobble head on them. they are all proportioned to their size.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Red Dragon, I highly reccomend not sending your dog out for protection training. I understand you've had guardian breeds before, but this isn't what ours was created for. So, if you wish to persue this type of training with your dog it's best for the both of you to learn this sport together rather than relying on someone else for this. I wouldn't be so cautious if you were sending your dog out for agility, fly ball, heck even for the basic obedience... but Personal Protection and Schutzhund (a german protection sport which requires much more than just protection work), i firmly believe that as an owner you should put in the leg work here with the guidance of a really good trainer. I drive about an hour one way to train my dogs, and that is because the trainer that I found is a quality dude. You don't find quality trainers often, and when you do it's not often that they will work with APBT. Soooo... go to obedience with a top notch trainer, don't jump the gun saying you want to do PP or Sch, and see if they offer it to you. I never went to this trainer to look for a PP or Sch dog... he told me the first time i ever opened my drivers side door at his facility, that he won't work with pit bulls in Sch or PP simply because of their owners mind set that they want a "bad ass dog" (which translates, not in every case, but most cases that the dogs training very well can be used for wrong doing)... I proved to him that I don't take training lightly, and I never once asked to watch his Sch training... he came to ME, and begged me to come out for well over a month to see what he is offering me. That is the real way to get into it all, take your basic training seriously with the right trainer (one that uses humane techniques, as well as someone who is active in the sport in which you're looking into), and you will have plenty of opportunity to train your dog the right way. This will help you acknowledge your dogs faults as you work with him. Bite work is something that you need to be able to read your dog like the back of your hand. When you get hooked up with someone local rather than shipping a dog out for that kind of training you have the opportunity to compete and put that training to use.


----------



## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Excellent post Shana! This is the best post I've read on this thread from page 1 to page 3! To the OP... getting defensive and calling other, more knowledgeable people in this breed will only get you neg repped, or banned all together. I understand being upset, but please take it to the PMs or contact a mod or admin if you have a problem with another member. Don't do this stuff in the open forums as it only causes massive problems for everybody involved. This is a public forum, meaning anyone at anytime can pull up these discussions and very well use these heated discussions against our beloved breed, as well as the people who own them, at any given time, and will only give the government more of a reason to try to ban them! 

David, I don't believe you'll be banned, but we all need to act a little more adult-like and not stoop to a 3rd grade level here. I'm not trying to upset you, but arguing and bickering back and forth and calling each other stupid gets us nowhere. I know I'm not a mod, but I'm just calling it like I see it. I used to be a member of a forum where everytime I asked a legitamite question, I got screamed at and flamed, and needless to say, I'm here now instead of there. I know we all get frustrated constantly trying to educate the new folks, but we can't go about it in a hostile manner b/c they only get defensive and no longer care to learn. Therefore, we have helped that person to become an irresponsible owner. That's truly and honestly what the main purpose of this forum is... trying to educate and create more knowledgeable and responsible people, right!? Just something to chew on for a while. Again, I'm not trying to upset anybody or start another argument.. just my two cents. Thank you, and that is all!


----------



## red dragon (Mar 23, 2010)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Red Dragon, I highly reccomend not sending your dog out for protection training. I understand you've had guardian breeds before, but this isn't what ours was created for. So, if you wish to persue this type of training with your dog it's best for the both of you to learn this sport together rather than relying on someone else for this. I wouldn't be so cautious if you were sending your dog out for agility, fly ball, heck even for the basic obedience... but Personal Protection and Schutzhund (a german protection sport which requires much more than just protection work), i firmly believe that as an owner you should put in the leg work here with the guidance of a really good trainer. I drive about an hour one way to train my dogs, and that is because the trainer that I found is a quality dude. You don't find quality trainers often, and when you do it's not often that they will work with APBT. Soooo... go to obedience with a top notch trainer, don't jump the gun saying you want to do PP or Sch, and see if they offer it to you. I never went to this trainer to look for a PP or Sch dog... he told me the first time i ever opened my drivers side door at his facility, that he won't work with pit bulls in Sch or PP simply because of their owners mind set that they want a "bad ass dog" (which translates, not in every case, but most cases that the dogs training very well can be used for wrong doing)... I proved to him that I don't take training lightly, and I never once asked to watch his Sch training... he came to ME, and begged me to come out for well over a month to see what he is offering me. That is the real way to get into it all, take your basic training seriously with the right trainer (one that uses humane techniques, as well as someone who is active in the sport in which you're looking into), and you will have plenty of opportunity to train your dog the right way. This will help you acknowledge your dogs faults as you work with him. Bite work is something that you need to be able to read your dog like the back of your hand. When you get hooked up with someone local rather than shipping a dog out for that kind of training you have the opportunity to compete and put that training to use.


the only reason i have protection dogs is because i live in ATLANTA even though i do have a 45 you never know and CHAMP is gonna go to PP but we will see what will happen my CANARYS have always done well and i think in a way they are very close to a APBT


----------



## tylersweeney22 (Apr 24, 2010)

ill put my little two cents in.. when i had my last one i wish he liked kids id still have him hes at my friends house.. he was about 8 months when his wieght was 45#s hes now 18 months old and hes 56-58 #s but after about a year he really didnt grow that much at all hes added a lot of definition head really didnt get any bigger. but if you look at both the parents should give you a somewhat of a qeustamate. its not going to be 100% though i can tell you that much. ill say this it dosnt look like hes going to have a 24" head imo. im going to guess he'll be around 60#ish maybe a 17" head just by the looks.. if that helps any . jmo. there not supposed to have big heads . ppl making them pretty much into desighner dogs 17" tall with a 28" head not a pit imo. yes ecsaderation and i know i cant spell lol . hope this helped you


----------



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Some of my fav protection bullies are from World Class k-9 and here is one of there dogs training.\




Just because we ar talking about protection apbt and bullies I really don't know how we got here but here you go.


----------



## Diesels_Mama (Mar 12, 2009)

I agree, i don't recommend making Champ a guard dog. Sure, he can learn it and might be great at it. But as soon as he bites someone, there's another case and headline for this breed. That's why some people are getting heated over this issue. As for head size, sorry, i have no clue. But, i don't think that would really matter. His jaw muscles are what make the bite anyway.


----------



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

When you measure the head you measure around the jaws and top of head so tit does make a difference.


----------



## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

That dog will have an 18" head. If that. Based on his body type.

I had a dog with a 24 1/2" head. I can show you pics of when he was 5 months. But I tell ya what, he couldn't breathe worth a crap. Too heavy and bulky.


----------



## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

*I live in Atlanta, and I would take you over to Worldclass K-9 to meet Julian and see his dogs work. I have lived here for over a decade and have not needed a PP APBT, I did have my house broken into one time, but I was glad my dog wasnt there. Most robbers carry weapons or anti freeze laced hamburger to deal with aggresive or loudmouth dogs. So take the TV, rather than hurt my dog. Luckily for me my 9mm is immune to anti freeze, and I live in one of the top ten cities to live in regards to safety, just happened that that was the year I was the oddity. LOL Go figure.*


----------



## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

*Just saw Buddy was banned, my bad. I am going to a rescue event tonight so maybe we could meet up and I could meet your pup. Its in Downtown Atlanta, and its a fundraiser for a local APBT rescue. Good luck with the pup either way. Go to BullytheKid.com for contact info.*


----------



## ghosthellz (Apr 9, 2010)

Rudy4747 said:


> Some of my fav protection bullies are from World Class k-9 and here is one of there dogs training.\
> YouTube - Worldclassk-9 masio
> Just because we ar talking about protection apbt and bullies I really don't know how we got here but here you go.


Thats one dog i would not want coming at me yikes lol


----------



## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

Thats a nice bully! but the video really got on my nerves...I like to see the dog follow through with the bite and them cutting the video off at the point on impact just got on my nerves WAY too much. I guess I'm a little OCD.


----------



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

They have tons of videos I chose that one cause it had a lot of different shots but it kind cut out but the end is pretty cool I thought.


----------



## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

Yep, I just like to see the whole thing kwim? I like to see the decoy recoil from the impact! ^.^


----------



## erik (Dec 8, 2009)

my dog didnt stop growin til he was around 2.. didnt think he was gonna stop..lol.. but thats pretty much when you wil no how big it will be.and his head is bigger than his momma and dads. its just hard to say how big it'll be til then.


----------

