# ADBA open to all pure breeds from a recognized registry



## drsven (Mar 21, 2007)

Has anyone contacted the ADBA to see how they are going to handle the AKC AMSTAFF? 
We know that the ADBA allows folks to register an AKC AMSTAFF as an American Pit Bull Terrier by filling out a single registration form. They also allow you to breed an ADBA APBT to an AKC AMSTAFF and register it as an American Pit Bull Terrier. Are they now allowing folks to register AKC dogs as a seperate breed maintaining the American Staffordshire Terrier name? I know this may sound silly to some, but I feel with all of the confusion surrounding our breed that this is a legitimate question. Also, how do you guys feel about the ADBA opening their stud books to all "pure" breeds?


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## *COESR* (Jul 8, 2007)

i dont like that at all....


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## gamecock10 (Nov 26, 2006)

They will probably do just like the UKC and keep them registered as APBT's. After all, that's what they are. I'll give 'em a call to make sure though


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## MijakaX (Jun 15, 2007)

Ummm. Im really not understanding what you are saying, BUT!!! I dought you can register AKC dogs as a seperate breed, maintaining the American Staffordshire Terrier name if it is not a pitbull, well you see lets go to the history books:

Today you can register a APBT in the UKC, and in the ADBA(American Dog Breeders Association), and the AMSTAFF, can be registered with the AKC(American Kennel Club) Why the difference? The APBT was originally used in dog fighting, a popular sport in the United States during the 1800's Breeder selectively bred the strongest, most aggressive dogs for fighting but rejected dogs who snapped or attacked their handlers. When owners wanted to show their APBT's in AKC competition, the Breed's association with fighting prevented it from gaining AKC recognition. HOWEVER, by identifying the breed as a Staffordshire Terrier, it became eligible for AKC registration in 1936. The name changed to American Staffordshire Terrier in 1972 to differentiate of the Staffordshire Terrrier or England.

So I say No they wont allow anyother breed to be registered under the AMSTAFF name but the Pitbull and the AMSTAFF.


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## drsven (Mar 21, 2007)

MijakaX said:


> Ummm. Im really not understanding what you are saying, BUT!!! I dought you can register AKC dogs as a seperate breed, maintaining the American Staffordshire Terrier name if it is not a pitbull, well you see lets go to the history books:
> 
> Today you can register a APBT in the UKC, and in the ADBA(American Dog Breeders Association), and the AMSTAFF, can be registered with the AKC(American Kennel Club) Why the difference? The APBT was originally used in dog fighting, a popular sport in the United States during the 1800's Breeder selectively bred the strongest, most aggressive dogs for fighting but rejected dogs who snapped or attacked their handlers. When owners wanted to show their APBT's in AKC competition, the Breed's association with fighting prevented it from gaining AKC recognition. HOWEVER, by identifying the breed as a Staffordshire Terrier, it became eligible for AKC registration in 1936. The name changed to American Staffordshire Terrier in 1972 to differentiate of the Staffordshire Terrrier or England.
> 
> So I say No they wont allow anyother breed to be registered under the AMSTAFF name but the Pitbull and the AMSTAFF.


I understand the history of the breed quite well, I'm not asking for a history lesson here and I'm also aware of how that the ADBA and UKC have normally addressed this issue. But many AKC folks feel that the AMSTAFF is now a distant cousin to the APBT. Remember the AKC has only bred select dogs for more than 70 years, and it's breed standard is different than the UKC and ADBA. So the question is, now that the ADBA is open to *ALL* pure breed dogs will they begin to cater to the AMSTAFF show folks? Probably not, just wanted to know if anyone has received an official word.


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## gamecock10 (Nov 26, 2006)

I called them and AKC registered Amstaffs will be registered as APBT's (as they should be!). 

All 3 registries have a different standard for the breed. The UKC revised theirs in '04. The UKC and AKC share the most similar standard. The ADBA standard is more in depth than the other two but is geared more towards a game look.

I always laugh at AKC breeders that don't embrace the APBT name and history. But, there are a lot of AKC breeders who do just that and show in both the AKC and UKC. 

Selective breeding to highlight certain traits of a breed does not create a new breed....only a different "type". There are many "types" in every breed of dog. 

Not trying to lecture, just trying to educate those that might read this thread and not know. :roll:


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

gamecock10 said:


> I called them and AKC registered Amstaffs will be registered as APBT's (as they should be!).
> 
> All 3 registries have a different standard for the breed. The UKC revised theirs in '04. The UKC and AKC share the most similar standard. The ADBA standard is more in depth than the other two but is geared more towards a game look.
> 
> ...


gamecock,
get off your self rightous soap box.
you arent educating anyone,once again just ranting and pushing your own agenda..
You totaly miss the real concept of breeds and give credit to orginizations the register mix breed dogs to back up your claim...
As for the adba registering other breeds of dog,who cares,good for them.....


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## drsven (Mar 21, 2007)

cane76 said:


> As for the adba registering other breeds of dog,who cares,good for them.....


Is the ADBA making a political statement by opening it's registry to all breeds or is it just about money? When I was reading CA AB1634 (proposed manditory spay & neuter bill in California that did not go into effect) there was an exemption for "pure bred dogs" that were registered with a recognized kennel club. I was actually surprised that the ADBA was included in the recognized kennel club list. Could it be that the ADBA had to become an "all breeds registry" to be included on the exemption list of AB1634?


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

drsven said:


> Is the ADBA making a political statement by opening it's registry to all breeds or is it just about money? When I was reading CA AB1634 (proposed manditory spay & neuter bill in California that did not go into effect) there was an exemption for "pure bred dogs" that were registered with a recognized kennel club. I was actually surprised that the ADBA was included in the recognized kennel club list. Could it be that the ADBA had to become an "all breeds registry" to be included on the exemption list of AB1634?


it's possable,but the legislation has been dropped already.maybe they just want more money,the more breeds they register the more $ they make......
im not sure but im not concerned about it either way..
possably they want to grow beyond being just a one breed registry.but with all the problems within the registry regarding purity of dogs, possably they should fix that issue before adding other breeds into the mix..........


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## gamecock10 (Nov 26, 2006)

I have no idea what your talking about Cane and I'm not sure you do either. I'm not ranting or pushing any sort of agenda on anyone, never have. "You totaly miss the real concept of breeds" I don't even know what you mean by this and I'm sure no one else does either. And please point out the registry that I give credit to that registers mixed breeds! UKC, AKC, ADBA....none of these registers a "mixed" breed. 

"As for the adba registering other breeds of dog,who cares,good for them"
The guy was simply asking a legitimate question. I called the ADBA to make sure what they were going to do. That's what we do here, help out and engage in friendly debate. Seems your more interested in acting like a jerk and starting trouble. 

I don't like some of the things people say on this site but I don't attack people out of nowhere for it. Intelligent debate is one thing (which we already had on another thread) but lashing out at someone because you don't like their opinion is childish. 

If you can't add to the thread in a positive way then do everyone a favor and go troll a different one.


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## TheBullBeastLover (Jul 18, 2007)

Umm kay how bout we all just get along and just chill out with this debate because its going sour fast and umm i dont want anyone making the site look like some Trash talking forum were all here to learn so cane no offence but just choose your words a little more carefully because we all have feelings too and Gamecock dont keep posting to start trouble ok now lets all get along and educate ourselves on the breed. So yea i like both of you alot so lets just all calmm down and talk nicely not to sound like ya parent or anything im just sayin were all adults here :roll:


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

i see the two as to seperate breeds just my personal opinion the debate could go on and on wether there diff breeds or diff types, done really matter much to me i just see show and working breeds in the end


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

gamecock10 said:


> please point out the registry that I give credit to that registers mixed breeds! UKC, AKC, ADBA....none of these registers a "mixed" breed.


ukc/adba both register apbts crossed with various mastiff breeds and bulldog breeds,if you dont know that youve got your head burryed in the sand.....



gamecock10 said:


> I have no idea what your talking about Cane and I'm not sure you do either. I'm not ranting or pushing any sort of agenda on anyone, never have..


yes you are,your agenda as clearly stated in this and other threds is that the amstaff is the exact same breed as the apbt since theres been no mixing of breeds just line breeding.
hmmmm so whats that make the staffordshire bullterrier?a apbt?how about the bullterrier,is this also a apbt?is a neapolitian mastiff the same as a cane corso,i mean i can go on and on about breeds derived from another with no mixing.....


gamecock10 said:


> You totaly miss the real concept of breeds" I don't even know what you mean by this and I'm sure no one else does either. .


its simple,you dont understand that many breeds were created through linebreeding,if the american bully is just a amstaff apbt cross,then how come its registered as another breed by the abkc?


gamecock10 said:


> That's what we do here, help out and engage in friendly debate. Seems your more interested in acting like a jerk and starting trouble..


 not true,sorry to come off like that,but your opinion isnt right,if your gonna claim to be educating somebody you have to have your facts straight,thats all... 


gamecock10 said:


> If you can't add to the thread in a positive way then do everyone a favor and go troll a different one.


o.k......


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

gamecock10 said:


> Selective breeding to highlight certain traits of a breed does not create a new breed....only a different "type". There are many "types" in every breed of dog.
> 
> Not trying to lecture, just trying to educate those that might read this thread and not know. :roll:


if you make a statement such as this you have to back it up.............


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## drsven (Mar 21, 2007)

wheezie said:


> i see the two as to seperate breeds just my personal opinion the debate could go on and on wether there diff breeds or diff types, done really matter much to me i just see show and working breeds in the end


I see the AKC Amstaff as a seperate breed as well, like I stated earlier it's from years of select breeding to a kennel club standard. The problem with UKC and ADBA dogs is that they seem to be identifiable primarly by bloodline or type, not to the registry standard. I've talked to Cane76 in the past in another thread and he made a good point, the UKC and ADBA dropped the ball. Just as with most other dog breeds such as a labs, you can identify an AKC Amstaff simply by looking at the dog regardless of the bloodline. With UKC and ADBA dogs it more like, wow, that's a blue nose bully or wow that's a red nose game bred blah, blah, blah. Trust me, I love them all but I can understand why the AKC wants to seperate itself from the pit bull name.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

At first the idea of the ADBA opening it doors to anything but APBT's made me sick. However they have always been on the side of the APBT and have done much to fight legal battles against BSL. Obviously their lawyers saw a need to allow other breeds in to keep the association alive and make it more credible in court. Now its not just an association who makes its living soley off APBT's and it can last and keep fighting.


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## gamecock10 (Nov 26, 2006)

"ukc/adba both register apbts crossed with various mastiff breeds"
Both registries are looking into revoking any papers that may have been submitted under certain bloodlines we all know. Hanging papers can and has happened in ALL registries. Neither the UKC nor ADBA knowingly registers mixed breeds so your wrong.

My belief that the APBT and AKC Amstaff are the same breed just a different "type" is an opinion and not an agenda. I like a friendly debate as much as anyone but if we don't agree so be it. Check our other thread in which I left things friendly when I said "we'll just have to agree to disagree". Or did you miss that?

The AB is not only APBT and Amstaff.....it has many breeds mixed in. Dave Wilson even admits to this. That's the reason for the uproar in the ADBA and UKC! That's why it has it own registry now. If you don't know the controversey behind the AB I suggest you read up on it. Here's a quote from DW "This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the 'pit bull.' "We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it."

The only facts that seem to be wrong are yours.

"if you make a statement such as this you have to back it up............."
What statement? That there are different types within every registered breed of dog? Go google yourself a Schutzhund III German Shepherd Dog and then pull up an AKC Champion GSD. The Australian Shepherd is a good one also. There are AKC and ASCA registered Aussies out there. Two different registries with different types of Aussies. I could go on and on. Golden retriever, Jack Russell Terrier or Parson Russell Terrier depending on what registry your talking about. Google any AKC sporting breed and compare show champions to field trial champions. The standards, looks, and temperaments will be different for each type.

We'll just agree to disagree :stick:


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

gamecock10 said:


> "ukc/adba both register apbts crossed with various mastiff breeds"
> Both registries are looking into revoking any papers that may have been submitted under certain bloodlines we all know. Hanging papers can and has happened in ALL registries. Neither the UKC nor ADBA knowingly registers mixed breeds so your wrong.
> 
> My belief that the APBT and AKC Amstaff are the same breed just a different "type" is an opinion and not an agenda. I like a friendly debate as much as anyone but if we don't agree so be it. Check our other thread in which I left things friendly when I said "we'll just have to agree to disagree". Or did you miss that?
> ...


the adba registered wanna be a whopper knowing he was a cross,
theres really nothing you can tell me i dont already know concerning these dogs....
David wilson admitedly states that the american bully is founded off akc staffs and ukc show dogs,some cross other breeds in to them but he say's he never did.still from breeding akc staffs to ukc show dogs he established another breed with or with out the other breeds that were added..

*There are breeders focusin on a weightpull line of so-called pitbulls which typically average over 100 lbs. 
This line is known cross between a mastiff type dog and a pitbull.
These dogs are extremely heavyboned with big jowels and display a mastiff type structure not
found in the purebred American PitBull Terrier. If you are a dog fancier familiar with different dog breeds, 
then you will be able to note the HUGE physical difference in these dogs. Their build is so warped, that they
look nothing like a purebred APBT, even though they are trying to be passed off as such.
The very owner of the dog who this line is based off of admitted that his dog was a cross. The ADBA allowed the
dog to be registered for weightpull competitions, the dog`s offspring was NOT supposed to be registered, but the
almighty dollar always comes into play. The result is that now this mastiff pitbulls offspring are all over the place 
being passed off as pure to the unknowing public.
The ADBA KNOWS these dogs are not purebred but continue to register them, because they are
a big draw in the ADBAs weightpull shows*


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

I like seeing them at shows too. YOu can usually kiss the MWP trophy goodbye but thats it. They dont have the heart or stamina of the little dogs and still today, pound for pound, the true APBT cant be beat!!


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