# Dog park tragedy with a not so bad outcome...



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

*
let me clarify... the end of it isnt as bad as we would all think... you know, pointing fingers at the pitbull...

i know its bad if any dog dies, but it's good that our breed wasn't to blame

Pit bull attacks, kills puppy at dog park*

By Andy Paras 
The Post and Courier
Tuesday, March 10, 2009

Julie Teffeteller said she cried out for her Maltese puppy Bibble as soon as she saw a large pit bull-mix pushing the 5-pound puppy with its nose Sunday at the Wannamaker Dog Park in North Charleston. 
Bibble sprinted toward her, Teffeteller said, but so did the larger dog. 

PROVIDED
Julie Teffeteller holds her Maltese puppy, Bibble. The dog was killed Sunday by a pit bull.

The 23-year-old Air Force officer said she nearly caught Bibble as she leapt toward her, but the pit bull-mix grasped the puppy first. 
"She slipped right through my fingers," Teffeteller said through tears Monday. "I almost had her. He was just too fast. There was no way she was going to beat him."
Teffeteller watched the muscular dog grab the puppy with its jaws and shake it. One bite was all it took, she said. She and her husband, Branndon, watched the 9-month-old puppy bleed to death in front of them. 
"He tore into her like he would have torn into a squirrel," Julie Teffeteller said. 
Both the pit bull's owner and Charleston County Park and Recreation officials said Monday that they were devastated by the fatal attack. Executive Director Tom O'Rourke said dog owners know they assume all responsibility when they use the dog parks, but he plans to push for new fencing that will separate smaller dogs from larger dogs to help prevent it from happening again. 
Judi Telford, the mother of the 17-year-old girl who took their dog, Rocket, to the park, shed her own tears Monday when she found out that Bibble died. 

PROVIDED
Bibble, a Maltese that belonged to Julie and Branndon Teffeteller, was attacked by a pit bull-mix Sunday at Wannamaker Park in North Charleston.

Telford said she and her daughter are dog lovers who volunteer at the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, where they adopted the 5-year-old female. The dog has never hurt anyone or anything before, she said. 
"We're just so, so sorry for her loss," Telford said of Teffeteller. "We feel terrible about the whole thing."
Telford said her daughter took the family's two dogs to the park Sunday to get some sun and exercise. She was there for about an hour when the dogs ran off. "All of a sudden, she was trying to pull Rocket away," Telford said. "A lot of people were yelling at her. She felt awful."
The teen gave her name and phone number to Teffeteller and left with the dogs. The teen's mom said she called her from the car, shaken up. There was some confusion initially because the phone number she gave to Teffeteller was off by a digit. North Charleston Police identified the Telfords through the license plate number taken by a park official, but Public Information Officer Spencer Pryor said no charges will be filed because it is a civil matter. 
O'Rourke said the fatal attack was the first to happen at any of the county's three dog parks. He said several witnesses to Sunday's attack have recommended they provide a special area for smaller dogs, something he expects to be implemented at the Wannamaker and James Island dog parks "sooner rather than later." The dog park at Palmetto Islands already has a makeshift pen for small dogs made out of extra fencing left over from a dog event, he said. 
Park officials said posted signs warning owners that their dogs' behavior is their responsibility, along with a dog-loving community that polices itself, have kept the dog parks a safe place for all dogs for more than two years. 
Still, they're fortunate something like this hasn't happened sooner, O'Rourke said. He said he knows from conversations with dog park representatives from across the country that something like this was bound to happen eventually, especially when considering that the three parks get more than 100,000 dogs a year. That averages out to more than 300 dogs a day. 
"It was just a matter of time, statistically speaking," he said. 
The park is not going to consider banning any particular breed of dog, he said. He said he doesn't know of any dog parks that do that. 
"We have not and will not be getting into the business of banning whole breeds of dogs," he said. 
That's good news to the Teffetellers. The couple has their own pit bull-mix and a doberman that they've trained to be social since they were puppies. 
They don't want to see pit bulls banned from the parks, but they would like to see people take responsibility for their dogs, as the signs say. 
Teffeteller and Telford spoke over the phone Monday. Telford apologized and promised to get Rocket socialized and trained. 
After the conversation, Teffeteller said she has no ill will toward the family or their dog. She hopes people will read about the experience and get their own dogs trained. 
"We don't believe in bad dogs," she said. "We just believe in bad owners."


----------



## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

And to think it could have been prevented if the pitbulls owners had NOT taken him to the dog.

When are people gone realize that dog parks and pitbull type dogs *DO NOT* mix?


----------



## RUCA.AND.ZION (Jul 7, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> Telford said she and her daughter are dog lovers who volunteer at the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, where they adopted the 5-year-old female.


...so they volunteer at a shelter..and adopted their dog at the shelter..wouldn't you think someone at that shelter would have told them *NO DOG PARKS*?!

Just goes to show ya...

*Common Sense is not so common!*


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

RUCA.AND.ZION said:


> ...so they volunteer at a shelter..and adopted their dog at the shelter..wouldn't you think someone at that shelter would have told them *NO DOG PARKS*?!
> 
> Just goes to show ya...
> 
> *Common Sense is not so common!*


true true..

I wanted to point out how lucky the pit mix's owners are to still have their dog, and to not have some sort of bsl law being passed because of it. the outcome in this scenario is hardly the case. i wish people would get it through their heads about dog parks..


----------



## RUCA.AND.ZION (Jul 7, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> I wanted to point out how lucky the pit mix's owners are to still have their dog, and to not have some sort of bsl law being passed because of it. the outcome in this scenario is hardly the case. i wish people would get it through their heads about dog parks..


yes....*EXTREMELY* lucky. I couldn't believe the outcome when I was reading the story.


----------



## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Neither dog should have been at that park and neither dog owner should be handling any dogs. A rational person could have seen this coming. At least the park officials are not overreacting with more insanity. That's rare.


----------



## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

you would think people would understand that a dog bred for fighting other dogs doesnt have a place at a dog park. you know, where theres LOTS of dogs.
what the heck


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

100,000 dogs per year in those parks and all it takes is one dumb move to ruin it for everyone... I think some fines should have been assessed, but i agree buz, if you can't do what's best for your dog you need not have one


----------



## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

ANY breed of dog could have done this. Thats why dog parks should have a seperate area for small dogs.


----------



## koonce272 (Sep 16, 2008)

Dogs are dogs NOT ppl. Dog parks in a whole are a rather dumb idea. I learned the hard way, and was on the attacked end of the leash, more than once. What, by a lab, and then a husky!

we need to not humanize animals. Just cause we ppl like to socialize in a certain manner, does by no means mean thats other creatures do.


----------



## bluefamily (Aug 8, 2007)

Even when we went to dog parks, my 11 year old 1/2 pit 1/2 gsd would stand by my side and watch the others or pick out 1 dog to play with. When she was a youngster she was fiesty and tough on her doggie friends. Luckily for us, we had verrrryyy laid back dog owners. Also if her doggie friend played with another dog and not her that was it she was ready to go home.
We've been a few times since then, but the people so get in the way...


----------



## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

koonce272 said:


> Dogs are dogs NOT ppl. Dog parks in a whole are a rather dumb idea. I learned the hard way, and was on the attacked end of the leash, more than once. What, by a lab, and then a husky!
> 
> we need to not humanize animals. Just cause we ppl like to socialize in a certain manner, does by no means mean thats other creatures do.


dog parks are bad for dogs for a lot of reasons the dog agression thing is big but even bigger for me is the illnesses and diseases. i don't know about you people but i don't like spending extra money at the vet.


----------



## Brandys_BabyJayda (May 27, 2009)

buzhunter said:


> Neither dog should have been at that park and neither dog owner should be handling any dogs. A rational person could have seen this coming. At least the park officials are not overreacting with more insanity. That's rare.


totally agree i mean the maltiz owners are just as at fault as the others for not watching their own close enough, i feel bad for the lose though....i have never take jay to dog parks...just ppl parks and NEVER will.


----------



## PBGoodDogs (Feb 1, 2009)

I guess I'll chime in here. I take Abby to the dog park as often as possible, and here's why. She's 7 months old. DA issues are not here for her yet, and I aim to take the opportunity to socialize her with not only other dogs but other people as much as I can. Are her days of the dog park dwindling? Yes, as I don't really plan to continue bringing her after she gets close to 1 1/2 years. Also, I know my dog, and I know how she responds to her environment. She is an absolute wuss right now. So people can blast me all they want for "doing the unthinkable!" but it's a choice I have made and am entirely comfortable with.

(Do not mistake this for me saying I let my dog run amok with reckless abandon. I have eyes on her at all times and am rarely more than a few feet away.)


----------



## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

All i have to say is if you take your APBT or any other dog to the dog park you are asking for trouble. If you take your APBT or bully breed to the dog park you are just plain stupid. Sorry if I offended anyone but it is the truth. I always read the "but my dog is different" excuse. APBT were bred to kill other animals and dogs, why are you around other dogs at dog parks? My dogs are fine with dogs in pubic, doesn;t mean I am stupid enough to let them visit, if there dog attacks my dog my dog will kill them. Even if your dog is not DA you cannot control what other dogs or people do. I am going to stay off this thread (or at least try) because you cannot talk sense into people who are dog park groupies!


----------



## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

performanceknls said:


> All i have to say is if you take your APBT or any other dog to the dog park you are asking for trouble. If you take your APBT or bully breed to the dog park you are just plain stupid.


My opinion is that any real "trainer" who would make a comment like that is "just plain stupid".



> Sorry if I offended anyone but it is the truth. I always read the "but my dog is different" excuse.


It's not always an excuse, sometimes its a fact. Making your "truth" false. As a "trainer", this is something you should be very familar with. Every dog is different.



> APBT *were* bred to kill other animals and dogs, why are you around other dogs at dog parks?


I underlined the key word above for you.



> My dogs are fine with dogs in pubic, doesn;t mean I am stupid enough to let them visit, if there dog attacks my dog my dog will kill them.


Basically what this shows is that youre not confident in your "training".



> Even if your dog is not DA you cannot control what other dogs or people do. I am going to stay off this thread (or at least try) because you cannot talk sense into people who are dog park groupies!


Sorry that youre not a big fan of proper training & socialization! But some of us do have "good" dogs that enjoy spending time with other dogs and people.


----------



## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> My opinion is that any real "trainer" who would make a comment like that is "just plain stupid".


And your an A$$  I do not care what you think of me but I will not let you ruin another thread like you like to do by making childish comments on everything you disagree on. It makes no difference to me but you have been warned many time (by other mods) for behavior like this. It is ok to disagree but when you pick threads apart and comment on every little thing it gets old.

I am not a fan of dog parks it doesn't matter how well trained your dogs are the fact that your dog could kill another dog means it should not be put in that situation. Why take the dog to the dog park when there are many places to socialize your dog without putting them at risk. Again you cannot control what other people do or the types of dogs they bring to a dog park.


----------



## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

RCK you are remarks are uncalled for. Lisa is a great trainer if you can handle the truth about this dog then maybe you should not own it. Just because you have done this with your dog does not make it the right thing to do. It should be shout her bully breed for thatfrom the roof tops that the APBT or another bully breed should not be allowed to run loose with other dogs. This site was set-up to teach responisble ownership something you have yet to figure out.


----------



## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

MY MIKADO said:


> RCK you are remarks are uncalled for. Lisa is a great trainer if you can handle the truth about this dog then maybe you should not own it. Just because you have done this with your dog does not make it the right thing to do. It should be shout her bully breed for thatfrom the roof tops that the APBT or another bully breed should not be allowed to run loose with other dogs. This site was set-up to teach responisble ownership something you have yet to figure out.


Her remarks were uncalled for as well. Just because she says its not ok, doesnt make it the truth. She had her opinion calling "us" plain stupid. I made my opinion back. How is it ok for her to do something, but not me?


----------



## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

performanceknls said:


> And your an A$$  I do not care what you think of me but I will not let you ruin another thread like you like to do by making childish comments on everything you disagree on. It makes no difference to me but you have been warned many time (by other mods) for behavior like this. It is ok to disagree but when you pick threads apart and comment on every little thing it gets old.
> 
> I am not a fan of dog parks it doesn't matter how well trained your dogs are the fact that your dog could kill another dog means it should not be put in that situation. Why take the dog to the dog park when there are many places to socialize your dog without putting them at risk. Again you cannot control what other people do or the types of dogs they bring to a dog park.


WOW! 6 mins and you already responded! I rarely pick any thread apart. Only when I see false staments being made.

I'm done with this thread. We already know each others opinions on the subject. While I agree with you somewhat, you never agree with anything I say.


----------



## ROXY_N_ROKKO (Aug 14, 2009)

I take my Amstaff everyday to the dog park and she doesnt look for trouble unless the other dog pulls a stupid move 1st...out of all the times ive been to the park there has been about 4 dog fights of other breeds, and ther will be about 5 APBT sitting somewhere just watching them


----------



## RUCA.AND.ZION (Jul 7, 2009)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> WOW! 6 mins and you already responded! I rarely pick any thread apart. Only when I see false staments being made.
> 
> I'm done with this thread. We already know each others opinions on the subject. While I agree with you somewhat, you never agree with anything I say.


Try and go to any pitbull workshop or seminar. *EXPERIENCED* trainers will *ALWAYS* tell you *NO* dog parks. Get your facts straight before you start throwing low blows.


----------



## luoozer (Apr 2, 2009)

RUCA.AND.ZION said:


> Try and go to any pitbull workshop or seminar. *EXPERIENCED* trainers will *ALWAYS* tell you *NO* dog parks. Get your facts straight before you start throwing low blows.


i didnt see any low blows? lisa made a comment and he posted his opinion using the same words lisa did 

personally, i take nemo to the dog park by my house almost EVERY weekend sence i got him. i leave him leashed untill i find someone responsiblewith a dog his size/energy level and we move to a field away from everyone else and let them play off leash, ive never had any issues and never even had to seperate a rough play. the park is small and if theres 15 dogs there it'd be a considered alot, theres usaully only a handfull ( 5-6 on an average day )

we've had 3 apbts, a ambully, a boxer/gsd mix, a foxhound mix and a rotti playing together several times for hours with no problems. they're local people that ive become friends with and KNOW their dogs are well behaved. we do this 2-3 times a month. my dog LOVES goes there.

again, personally i do agree dog parks CAN be a terrible choice, but it can also be done properly and safely. some dogs just dont belong at dog parks, not just certain breeds.


----------



## RUCA.AND.ZION (Jul 7, 2009)

RCK is just picking at every little thing Lisa is trying to educate every one on. You may think dog parks are fine..but you ARE puting your dog in danger when you are taking him/her there. Lets see...if there was a dog at the park that started a fight with your dog...all eyes would be on you and your "VICIOUS" pitbull. Even if the other dog started it...YOU would be at fault..and i GUARENTEE that the owner of the dog that started the fight would say it was your dogs fault. Just be careful...that's all I have to say...ugh.


----------



## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Ok can we move along to more productive posts. RCK and I will always disagree for the most part but after all we are entitled to our opinions. My comment was not the nicest but it is how I feel. Again there will be no changing the minds of the dog park groupies but lets stay on topic of dog parks, not he said she said.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I guess over 100's of generations of breeding a dog to kill another one or at least to die trying can be erased when taking it to a dog park to play with other puppies lol


----------



## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

According to some they think that if they socialize their dogs enough they will not have trouble. I feel that trouble is around every corner and I will let my dog become a news story just so I can say my dog is different. My dog is an APBT and I know she will become DA someday and we are ready but we steer clear of places where she will fail and give cause for more BSL.


----------



## RUCA.AND.ZION (Jul 7, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> According to some they think that if they socialize their dogs enough they will not have trouble. I feel that trouble is around every corner and I will let my dog become a news story just so I can say my dog is different. My dog is an APBT and I know she will become DA someday and we are ready but we steer clear of places where she will fail and give cause for more BSL.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Woaaah! I'm gone from this thread and I missed all this?! 

Simple plain truth. It's not that our dogs are unpredictable, but aggression can be shown by any dog, of ANY breed, at ANY time, and even when you have "good" dogs, well trained, professionally trained dogs, you know yours will finish the fight. Why put your dogs in that situation? For more bad publicity? 

Lisa I think maybe generalizing on who's stupid struck a nerve, and that's what set this off. It's not about who agrees with who and who doesn't, it's about all of us being here to conserve the breed and spread awareness, and when THE RESPONSIBLE owners with GOOD DOGS take that chance, other people might think it's ok to do so. And what if those people don't have the experience under their belt like lisa or rck?

It shouldn't be about specific cases, our breed goes through enough without adding our "humanistic" twist to their weekly schedule. I agree totally that dogs should be socialized, but they should not be allowed to run loose together because the average owner wouldn't know how to stop the fight if it came down to it.


----------



## luoozer (Apr 2, 2009)

RUCA.AND.ZION said:


> You may think dog parks are fine..but you ARE puting your dog in danger when you are taking him/her there. Lets see...if there was a dog at the park that started a fight with your dog...all eyes would be on you and your "VICIOUS" pitbull. Even if the other dog started it...YOU would be at fault..and i GUARENTEE that the owner of the dog that started the fight would say it was your dogs fault. Just be careful...that's all I have to say...ugh.


which is why i dont just go to the dog park, let my dog off leash and dont watch him. im usually there for almost an hour before he gets to go off lead, i need time to talk to people, meet the dogs, find a spot and make sure we're doing are best so there ISNT a fight. again, personally i think this helps too because when he IS let off lead he seems to know its an award and he has to earn it.

he only plays with dogs his size, and energy level.

he only plays with dogs owned my responsible people that KNOW and understand there could be a fight anytime. this is why i mentioned before ive become friends with multiple people that are regularly at the park. they know it could happen.

he doesnt play with little dogs or dogs that are clearly being dominate or are owned by idiots.( people not watching, big dogs chasing little dogs around ect ect )

i always introduce then properly and theres been plently of times that the first nose to nose smelling didnt go good and so they dont get to play, no big deal.

this has been going on for over 6 months and ive been to the park over 20 times and have not had one issue. theres other dogs there all the time that he has come to LOVE to go see and play with. at the same time, theres alot we dont go near because im not looking to start a fight.

i watch for signs of DA all the time.
myself and another regular apbt owner always have a break stick.
we all know what can happen in a blink of an eye. no one is going to blame anything on anyway, no cops would be involved. we let them play AWAY from all the idiots and little unattended dogs for a reason.

all im saying, is that it can be done with the RIGHT dogs under the RIGHT conditions being supervised by the RIGHT people.

id love to have this not get locked and have a civil conversation about this.


----------



## luoozer (Apr 2, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> My dog is an APBT and I know she will become DA someday.


see, i disagree with that. i have a friend that has a 72lb amstaff that CANNOT under any conditions be near another dog. at all, ever, period. he trys to kill any dog in sight, and amstaff are sopossed to be the more mild ones as far as DA issues go. the dog gets walked at night so they dont have to pass by another dog, its really that bad. needless to say he doesnt come to the dog park.

now that same friend has a 44lb apbt that comes to the dog park with us all the time, loves other dogs, is very submissive, and generally well behavied. he's like my dog that LOVES to see other dogs, even on walks he lets the dog go nose to nose with passing dogs if the dog/owner feels its OK and they dont appear to be a moron.

last month i took my dog to Knoebles Amusement park with thousands of people and hundreds of dogs. i didnt have any issues and ran into 3 other apbt and 1 ambully along with hundreds of little lap dogs that got introduced to my dog. i never posted a thread or pics because of the crap i knew i was going to get. :rain:

bottom line is that every dog is different, and needs to be treated differently under certain situations.


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Every dog is different, and should be trained differently DEPENDING on temperament and situation, but overall, if any dog provokes your dog the training won't be enough and the break stick will need to be used.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I think if people want to set up play dates with APBT they should do it in an off site location where it is fenced and fully supervised by the owners. I think it is all fine and dandy with someone letting your Pit dog play with theirs, but if your dog has had enough and decides to clamp on the dog and not let go, I doubt that owner will be too happy about it whne he sees his dog gushing blood or with skin hanging. Whether you carry a breaking stick or not, your pitdog will be seen in public attacking another dog and it will add to the BSL wagon. At least if you are on an offsite location it is just the dog owners that were present and there cant be hard feelings because both parties asked for it. I dont think every pit dog is going to have the tendency to attack or finish a fight but the possibility is there. A lot of people think that taking a 2yr old dog means that the dog is all grown up now and he loves to play with other dogs, dogs mature and their temperament changes, maybe your dog loved to play with other dogs when he was 6 months old or a year old but as they age things can quickly change in a matter of a second.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

luoozer said:


> see, i disagree with that. i have a friend that has a 72lb amstaff that CANNOT under any conditions be near another dog. at all, ever, period. he trys to kill any dog in sight, and amstaff are sopossed to be the more mild ones as far as DA issues go. the dog gets walked at night so they dont have to pass by another dog, its really that bad. needless to say he doesnt come to the dog park.
> 
> .


No dog is free of DA specially if they are terriers. While some are supossed to be more calm than others, if you have a breeding and bred dogs with unstable temperaments or a line with severe DA dog lineage its genetics are going to kick in. Some dogs tolerate the company of others and others loose this tolerance as they get old. Amstaffs were bred for show not performance but you can still trace their lineage to gamedogs.


----------



## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Ok let me rephrase it
I think you are one sandwich short of a picnic if you allow your bully breed go to the park.  Is that sugar coated enough? It is just the way I feel I have see too much tragedy like that poor little dogs that died at the mouth of an APBT that should not have been there in the first place. People think they can control things like prey drive or a dog fight if the dogs are off leash, for 98.9% of "pet" owners they can not.
I am not saying this as a Mod or a business owner I am saying this as a passionate bulldog owner. They do not belong in a dog park plain and simple but like I said that is JMO people will continue to do what they feel is appropriate for the breed.

Again when I first started in APBT's years ago I was like you dog park owners thinking I could make my APBT act like every other dog. Till one of my dogs who I never thought in a million years would hurt another dog killed another one of my non APBT's. Onyx is not DA she gets along fine with other dogs and has never displayed DA. She was also a therapy dog who loves to visit the Veterans hospital. She was the one that killed another dog when it came down to she acted like a true bulldog. She popped a crate that had a faulty latch and killed another one of my dogs while I was gone.
So go ahead take your bulldog to the dog park and I pray you never find out what they really are capable of.


----------



## luoozer (Apr 2, 2009)

^ i agree, i never go without one, ive never had to use it there, but regardless i make sure i have that before i make sure i have water.

the way i do it, the only dogs he would be able to get into a fight with would be ones that wouldnt die from one bite to begin with ( so no dead lap dogs ) and i ALWAYS get to know the owner first ( no cops/media ) and make sure they know that the chances of a fight are there.

ive gone up to owners with dobys and gsd's that i know would play with my dog, but the owners werent cool with the idea. no harm done, no feelings hurt, i move on. its all about the way you do it.

edit: ill have to get pics of where i go, if theres 10 people in the 30 acres its a busy day. most are fishing in the lake a mile away from where we let the dogs play, in a 2 acre field with a fence that no one ever uses, the grass is left taller, and its a further walk so its the perfect place.

edit : PK, i totally understand where your coming from, and im not trying to start a fight with you in anyway.

the dogs he plays with are always bigger than he is, he wont ever be able to do any real damage before the fight gets seperated. any breed can start a fight, and with the big dogs i let him play with i really dont belive my 47lb dog is going to kill a 110lb rotti before it gets broken up.


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

davidfitness83 said:


> I think if people want to set up play dates with APBT they should do it in an off site location where it is fenced and fully supervised by the owners. I think it is all fine and dandy with someone letting your Pit dog play with theirs, but if your dog has had enough and decides to clamp on the dog and not let go, I doubt that owner will be too happy about it whne he sees his dog gushing blood or with skin hanging. Whether you carry a breaking stick or not, your pitdog will be seen in public attacking another dog and it will add to the BSL wagon. At least if you are on an offsite location it is just the dog owners that were present and there cant be hard feelings because both parties asked for it. I dont think every pit dog is going to have the tendency to attack or finish a fight but the possibility is there. A lot of people think that taking a 2yr old dog means that the dog is all grown up now and he loves to play with other dogs, dogs mature and their temperament changes, maybe your dog loved to play with other dogs when he was 6 months old or a year old but as they age things can quickly change in a matter of a second.





davidfitness83 said:


> No dog is free of DA specially if they are terriers. While some are supossed to be more calm than others, if you have a breeding and bred dogs with unstable temperaments or a line with severe DA dog lineage its genetics are going to kick in. Some dogs tolerate the company of others and others loose this tolerance as they get old. Amstaffs were bred for show not performance but you can still trace their lineage to gamedogs.





performanceknls said:


> Ok let me rephrase it
> I think you are one sandwich short of a picnic if you allow your bully breed go to the park.  Is that sugar coated enough? It is just the way I feel I have see too much tragedy like that poor little dogs that died at the mouth of an APBT that should not have been there in the first place. People think they can control things like prey drive or a dog fight if the dogs are off leash, for 98.9% of "pet" owners they can not.
> I am not saying this as a Mod or a business owner I am saying this as a passionate bulldog owner. They do not belong in a dog park plain and simple but like I said that is JMO people will continue to do what they feel is appropriate for the breed.
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


----------



## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

davidfitness83 said:


> I think if people want to set up play dates with APBT they should do it in an off site location where it is fenced and fully supervised by the owners. I think it is all fine and dandy with someone letting your Pit dog play with theirs, but if your dog has had enough and decides to clamp on the dog and not let go, I doubt that owner will be too happy about it whne he sees his dog gushing blood or with skin hanging. Whether you carry a breaking stick or not, your pitdog will be seen in public attacking another dog and it will add to the BSL wagon. At least if you are on an offsite location it is just the dog owners that were present and there cant be hard feelings because both parties asked for it. I dont think every pit dog is going to have the tendency to attack or finish a fight but the possibility is there. A lot of people think that taking a 2yr old dog means that the dog is all grown up now and he loves to play with other dogs, dogs mature and their temperament changes, maybe your dog loved to play with other dogs when he was 6 months old or a year old but as they age things can quickly change in a matter of a second.


:goodpost:
Play dates with dogs they will know for a long time and dogs who's temperaments you know is fine. You are putting them in a controlled environment. This is the best post so far!


----------



## luoozer (Apr 2, 2009)

davidfitness83 said:


> No dog is free of DA specially if they are terriers. While some are supossed to be more calm than others, if you have a breeding and bred dogs with unstable temperaments or a line with severe DA dog lineage its genetics are going to kick in. Some dogs tolerate the company of others and others loose this tolerance as they get old. Amstaffs were bred for show not performance but you can still trace their lineage to gamedogs.


i completely understand, my sisters apbt just turned 1 year old a few weeks back and is SLOWLY getting less and less loving towards strange dogs. its happens, and im aware it comes on at any time frame weather its 4 months old or 4 years old. i let him play with dogs that WOULD defend themselves not 5lb chi's that would be dead with one shake of the head.


----------



## luoozer (Apr 2, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> :goodpost:
> Play dates with dogs they will know for a long time and dogs who's temperaments you know is fine. You are putting them in a controlled environment. This is the best post so far!


thats what i do!!!!! :hammer:

i dont let him play with strange dogs, i personally know and live by every dog he plays with. most of them are dogs in my own neighborhood that tell me when they're going to the park ( every weekend ) and that i pass by on our daily walks and let the dogs see each other everyday.

i talk my sister apbt and my neighbors rotti on walks with my dog because 1. my schedule works, 2. they all walk better when together 3. they all get along fine, with no issues with water time even.


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

i have pictures i want to show you guys of chino's buddies lola and penny. lola is a boxer and penny is a chocolate lab. both are of sound temperament. they play, because their owners and i are good friends and they interact a few times a week, either at his house or mine, and theyre supervised every time. i believe all dogs need socialization to help them be of sound nature, but you cannot throw in risks that you shouldn't take. No one is going to care for you dogs like you are, and no matter how responsible or nice other owners might seem, if worst comes to worse, you are responsible for your dog, and the relationship between you and other owners at these parks would become totally different. you can talk to people all you want, but you will never know the real temperament of their dog because you did not train it, raise it, or handle it on a day to day basis. i just think that's a risk IMO


----------



## PBGoodDogs (Feb 1, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Ok can we move along to more productive posts. RCK and I will always disagree for the most part but after all we are entitled to our opinions. My comment was not the nicest but it is how I feel. Again there will be no changing the minds of the dog park groupies but lets stay on topic of dog parks, not he said she said.


I do not appreciate being called "just plain stupid". Your comment was out of line.


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

I agree that the statement was out of line, but the only people focusing on what lisa said are the exact ones that take their dogs to the dog park, saying that their dogs are different, and i doubt seriously that any of the people that continue to take their dog to the dog park would know how to act when hell breaks loose.


----------



## luoozer (Apr 2, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> I agree that the statement was out of line, but the only people focusing on what lisa said are the exact ones that take their dogs to the dog park, saying that their dogs are different, and i doubt seriously that any of the people that continue to take their dog to the dog park would know how to act when hell breaks loose.


think that all you want, but id bet my life ive broken up more apbt dog fights than you have BY FAR. ive grown up with the breed and my whole family has had them way before i was even thought of.

i didnt take what lisa said to heart at all really, if you dont want to take your dog to a dog park then fine. by not you, or anyone on here will stop me, im responible and safe about it, and see no problems with it.

ive come across more DA labs and jack russels than i have apbts at dog parks.


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

luoozer said:


> think that all you want, but id bet my life ive broken up more apbt dog fights than you have BY FAR. ive grown up with the breed and my whole family has had them way before i was even thought of.
> 
> i didnt take what lisa said to heart at all really, if you dont want to take your dog to a dog park then fine. by not you, or anyone on here will stop me, im responible and safe about it, and see no problems with it.
> 
> ive come across more DA labs and jack russels than i have apbts at dog parks.


you don't know what ive done and what ive had to break up. this isnt about that. what im saying is that why take an animal that's guaranteed to finish the job. youre right, the other day i was walking chino and 5 houses down was an open garage with a nasty jack russell, and he was provoking my dog. he's 6 months, and easily contained at his age, but when he hits full maturity there is no saying how he would react. i spend a lot of time working with my dog and i believe he is well trained, especially for his age.

i am not new to the breed, just to puppy ownership. don't assume because of my age that i am.

and i did not mean that YOU took lisa's post to heart, but people are taking it out of contexts when it's her right to think the way she wants. it wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

and by the way, good for you and your dogs. hate to see the day some angry little mutt sets them off


----------



## luoozer (Apr 2, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> and by the way, good for you and your dogs. hate to see the day some angry little mutt sets them off


he's never off leash around any dogs i dont know 

i too am done with this thread before it gets out of hand and i end up making people hate me.

good debate staffy :clap: nobody got banned :hammer:


----------



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

let me add... you might be doing what you think is ok... but youre more responsible then the average dog owner, as most of us are, coming here to learn and share our experiences. but its not right for us to parade around those places like there shouldnt be a care in the world. people are so easily persuaded, you could have all sorts of idiots wanting to take their apbts and mixes to the dog park "trying to make a good impression" and bam you have another headline.

obviously if you still take your dogs there you havent had to break up a dog fight between one of your dogs and another. i never said anyone has ill mannered dogs... or that anyone hasnt been raised around them. if you know about the origins of the breed and you truly comprehend what they are capable of, then you are choosing to risk being fined, or losing your dog, or being in a headline.


----------



## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

And with that I think we beat the hell out of this dead horse!


----------

