# Bully the Kid and the Dogman



## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

*It has been about 2 months that i have been trying to bridge the gap between the AmBully community and the APBT community. We have had several successes and almost no setbacks. The new listeners and websites involved with the Radio Show has been overwhelming! We have met several breed ambassadors that have taken up the fight against division amongst the Bully Breed Community, we have agreed to disagree on a number of issues, but have for the most part listened to opposing views and have made great strides in regards to opening the channels of communication.

No night has that been more evident, than last night. I have interviewed celebrities, politicians, big name breeders, and musicians, but last night I interviewed one of faces of the APBT online community. I was able to sit down with Marty, Shon, Nancy and Smokin Hemi. Most of you know them from the boards, Gopitbull.com, Game-dog.com and Planet-pitbull.com.

I arrived at the house at around 5 pm, I was met in the front yard by Marty, who smiled and welcomed me and directed me to the backyard. I went out back and was greeted by Shon, Nancy, and Hemi. At first there may have been a tad bit of hesitation, afterall, in a way we were strangers and I until a couple months ago was just another Bully person to them. I was offered a seat on a bench right next to Marty, trust me it was a tight fit, because if Marty is a game dog, i'm definitely a bully in size lol.

I looked around the yard and admired the dogs, all were in great shape and were testaments to the breed. They were quiet, didn't bark and just wagged their tails hoping I would come up and pet them. There true bulldog nature was shown when a branch fell from a tree just out of reach of Shakzi(sp) a beautiful chocolate female she came out her doghouse looking for whatever had fallen from the tree, saw the branch and came to the end of her chain. She reached and stretched her paw out to get the branch. I'm thinking there is no way she gets it, her body was taunt and you could see the lines of muscle down her dark red body. A toenail caught the tip of the branch it moved a half inch, for the next 5 minutes she kept at it, toenail, inch, toenail, inch until finally she took the branch into her powerful jaws and crushed it and then carried her prize to her dog house.

All the other dogs who had watched her, yawned as if to say the show was over, and they could have done the same thing. The night was cold and it was growing dark, I didn't know the time but the dogs barked and began getting restless, Marty immeidiately said it was feeding time, if you have never seen a group of gamedogs eat you have not seen a true magic act, the bowls went down and the food vanished lol.

I got my first glimpse of Lil Bit and she did not disappoint, more ripped than her pictures! She was all out energy, dragging Marty around the house to the backyard almost at a sprint! This little girl was a handfull and a half! True APBT no doubt about it! It's been awhile since I had been around so many True Bulldogs, I was in awe and it made me miss my younger days spent with my uncle in South Georgia and working the dogs.

We talked dogs, Bullies and APBTs, afterall that's what I was there for, to learn about this man and his dogs. I wanted to really talk dogs with Marty, Shon and Hemi, and boy did we!!

First we discussed the price of AmBullies, how Marty found it hard to understand the costs of these dogs. Hemi made some jokes as did I, but what I took from Marty is that it's not the fact that they cost so much. It's about the fact that they did nothing to deserve the price tag. I totally understand, as a performance bred breed the APBTs value has always been based on what it accompliished not just off the fact it was born. The fact that it excelled at a task, is what equated to value, GB dogs were sold for good amounts of money, but these were adult tried and true animals not pups who just looked a certian way. I understood where he was coming from and respected his position.

The next thing we discussed was breeding, and Shon, and Marty and I had maybe one of the most serious discussions I have ever had on the subject. Marty explained that he is definitely concerned about the amount of dogs being bred. The idea that everyone can or should have a APBT is crazy and has led to so many problems in the breed. We went deeper in the discussion and surmised that societies position on dogs here in America has a lot to do with the issues facing the APBT of today. The conversation made me think about a number of issues in ways that I had never thought of them before.

One thing I learned about Marty, is that he does not hate the AmBully, in fact I would say the man is not capable of hating any dog. He is a genuine dog lover. The issue is the same thing that many car enthusiasts feel when a auto maker changes their favorite car, WHY? The Camaro was perfect until Chevy changed it! You cant improve perfection, the APBT did not need changing! I understand that, my analogy was that the AmBully definitely is not a Camaro, but maybe it's an Impala, a four door Impala, not a Camaro but still a Chevy. Guess what, if the Chevy plant closes we lose both, BSL is the plant closing!

There were tons of topics discussed and I learned so much about the man, his son, Nancy, the dogs and his views. I fell in love with AKA and Finale, sorry Lil Bit but she is only my 3 rd favorite of Martys dog and Rufus is giving her a run lol. I ate cupcakes and laughed more than I had in a long time. I made some great new friends, and was proud to walk away respecting them and having earned their respect.

I touched a real APBT and felt what the breed had lost as a whole. The fact is the dogs, the true dogs are not for everyone, but the lucky few that possess the real deal are a lucky few indeed. I love my dogs and respect them, they are great pets and they give me their all, but I hugged my game dog harder after leaving Martys last night.

Last little story, I left casa Marty at around 3 am, we were laughing so hard, I felt like I was with family during Christmas. But before I could leave they had to let me play with Lil Bit lol, I was nervous, because Lil Bit is a tornado and we were in a small space lol. I sat on the couch and out came the she devil, a brown blur! Muscles flexed tail wagging and greeting everyone! On the couch off the Couch! On Marty on Shon, licking Nancy, in my lap all in about 3 seconds! I'm trying to take my time but before you know it Marty is snapping pictures and I am drowning in Lil Bit kisses and making faces that I have not made since 3rd grade!! Nancy, Shon and Marty are laughing and I'm embarrased that I'm trying to get away from the Lil Bit that should have been named Lotta Bits and Kisses lol!

Thank you Marty, Nancy and Shon for having me over!!! I missed a ton of information and I am sure I will post more soon about this visit! Yes, Yes all the radio fans we will have Marty in the studio in the near future!

Thanks again Marty, for allowing me to better understand where you are coming from! I have nothing but respect for you and Shon! Keep your head up and keep doing what you do old timer!*


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

Wow that was an amazing post! I'm glad you had such a good time with Marty, BTK! I wish I could hangout with Marty, haha!


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

That totally put a smile on my face. 

What a great time you guys must have had! 

Im proud of both of you for being open minded and wanting to learn!!!


<3 :clap:


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Wow Thanks man, and I can't wait till we can get together again, much respect to you my brother and yes I feel I can call you my brother we fight for the same cause and I feel as if we clicked so see you soon man 

Maybe we can get some better pictures of you and Lilbit next time LOL


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

meganc66 said:


> Wow that was an amazing post! I'm glad you had such a good time with Marty, BTK! I wish I could hangout with Marty, haha!


Megan I ain't *THE MAN* I just had the pleasure of meeting *THE MAN*


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## SMOKIN HEMI (Nov 12, 2008)

Wow BTK, man I had a good time too man. Talking to you was a pleasure. 3 a.m. wow man, I would have stayed longer but Lydia (Wife) is sick and she would have beat my butt. Nothing in the world better than talking dogs man. I hope that we all can do it again, soon.....

B


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

:clap: :clap: :clap: it's good that we can still trust some people in the world!


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Yes history was made and it will make for the betterment of the breed I promise that


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Bout time the embassadors sat down and talked. Great read and totally what I had expected. Big ups to you guys!


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks reddoggy


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Thank YOU Marty! Rep to both of ya! I'm thrilled that the voice of the bully world and the envy of the GD world could get down to business.


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

I got to do what I can while I'm still here and with BTKs help maybe I can make a difference in the APBT world


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## Aidan (Nov 3, 2009)

That read put a smile on my face and I dont even know you guys


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

U nighted we win divided we fall, enough said!!!!

I'm here to do what I can for the breed till my last breath and I think everyone knows that.


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## SnoopsMomma (Nov 5, 2009)

This was definitely a great read and im glad there are people out there fighting for the breed.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Man that was an AWESOME read. Thank you Marty & BTK for coming together and allowing us a peek into the history made between you both. 
BIG hugs to you both ~! I'm smiling about this foreal .....


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

That was well worded, Great read>


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

:clap::clap::clap:

Kudos to Marty and BTK...Amazing guys. One bridge joined, many more to go!


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## DogsLife (Sep 19, 2009)

That was inspiring to say the least, I wish I could have been a "fly on the wall" to observe that meeting and hear the dog discussion. I can't get enough info on the history of the APBT and AmBullies to satisfy me.:clap:


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

Very interesting read, but I must ask - why the need to bring the APBT world & the AmBuly world together? The breeds have clearly separated, why can't we follow our own roads as well? Look at the English Bulldog & the American Bulldog people. Essentially the exact same thing happened to these fanciers & their breeds, but you don't see the EB & AB people getting all lovey dovey. They respect each other, but they do their own thing. I guess I don't see the need to snuggle up to these bully people & sing kum-bye-yah.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

ABK said:


> Very interesting read, but I must ask - why the need to bring the APBT world & the AmBuly world together? The breeds have clearly separated, why can't we follow our own roads as well? Look at the English Bulldog & the American Bulldog people. Essentially the exact same thing happened to these fanciers & their breeds, but you don't see the EB & AB people getting all lovey dovey. They respect each other, but they do their own thing. I guess I don't see the need to snuggle up to these bully people & sing kum-bye-yah.


Well in your reference those two breeds have been around a very long time. The Bully breed has only been around for about 15 years and there is a lot of controversy on how the breed got started. Such as yourself you believe there is a lot mastiff and EB in the breed, but I being "a bully person" don't believe so. So it's nice to have a bridge made.

If you want to continue to hate the Bully breed that's fine, your prerogative. But some people would like to, as you eloquently put it, sing kum-bye-yah.


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## SMOKIN HEMI (Nov 12, 2008)

Lots of people classify APBT and AB as the same dog. We are all in the same crap hole. When they say pitbull ban they are talking about pitbulls and bullies.If the law man comes to your house and say you cant have pitbulls you cant tell him that is bully, and expect him to say oh ok and jut walk away. So I think it is a good thing to hit BSL in the mouth in a United front. BTK is doing some good things. The show is awesome...


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

sounds like a good time was had by all and sounds like Marty is a great ambasidor for our breed!!!


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

ABK said:


> Very interesting read, but I must ask - why the need to bring the APBT world & the AmBuly world together? The breeds have clearly separated, why can't we follow our own roads as well? Look at the English Bulldog & the American Bulldog people. Essentially the exact same thing happened to these fanciers & their breeds, but you don't see the EB & AB people getting all lovey dovey. They respect each other, but they do their own thing. I guess I don't see the need to snuggle up to these bully people & sing kum-bye-yah.


Why do we need the hate? Why not come to some sort of mutual understanding? It cant do anything but help the fight against BSL. How do we expect to win the war if were battling against each other? Ill sing kumbaya all day everyday.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

I think it's great that you guys could sit down together and civilly talk dogs.


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## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

*Thank you for all of your comments!

In regards to why do this?

One aside from being Bully the Kid I am a very passionate bulldog owner, my love for the American Pit Bull Terrier has been long lived. I would jump at the opportunity to discuss dogs with anyone, as I am passionate about education as well. 1 hour with Marty, Shon and Black Caesar is worth a semester in school. I welcomed their views and standpoints and I like to think they appreciated mine, a conversation amongst men.

The english bulldog has never faced the public scrutiny and scorn that the APBT has faced, the problem or differences amongst the breed enthusiasts (American Bulldog & English Bulldog) was the problem amongst just that the enthusiasts, a relatively small issue, when compared to the "Pit Bull Problem". The situation of the two breeds the APBT and the AmBully goes far deeper, due in large part to non breed owners views on the generic term Pit Bull.

This problem and situation is furthered by the divisions within the breeds. By and By each group could choose to fight BSL in its own way and in due time the battle will run its course. However with division you will get blame. Blame from media outlet deemed experts. The Bully community, yes has definite issues, a lot of these issues come from a lack of education. In regards to breeding, containment and overall ownership of the breed. Is a AmBully a APBT, not in my opinion, but you can get a APBT mix that is just as hot as a purebred. These owners need to know the breed just as much as the purebred APBT owners.

What we tried to accomplish was a meeting of the minds, to have people who are respected in their circles come together and discuss a positive breed future for all breeds involved. We did not discuss the breeding of Lil Bit to the Biggest name Bully. We did not discuss the AmBully and APBT people having large secret santa exchanges. What we did was stop seperating each other as Bully people and Pit Bull people.

As you seperated us in your post, I do not seperate myself from other dog owners, in regards to dog related issues. If I know there is parvo in my neighbors yard I do not, not warn my other neighbor because they own poodles, and I own APBTs. I warn them and educate them on the disease as a responsible dog owner.

I am a responsible Bully Breed owner, I take pride in that fact and I connect with good bulldog people throughout the country regardless of their prefrence, or style of dog.

The desire to take part in events that will change the public perception of the breed is tremendous. The ability to show that a large diverse group of individuals will be affected by BSL/MSN laws is a powerful statement. To show that not only this type person owns these dogs, or this age group or this social class but a variety of people, is a powerful statement.

If you beg to differ you are well within your rights as an American, I have read that not all people jumped on the Ark with Noah when the floods came, I only have one question......

How long can you tread water?

The BSL flood is coming and the breeds have been treading water for quite some time, people like Marty, Shon, B, members of this board are offering a hand into the boat, its up to you to take it.

If not, then happy swimming, just dont drill a hole in my boat, because I've already gotten wet enough.

Once again thanks for all of the comments!!!

Oh yeah I did not take ABK's question as hate, but rather a legit question and statement, laced with sarcasm, but legit none the less. *


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Man I have no words right now .... cept BTK the more you post the more I admire you..... the end~!


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## SMOKIN HEMI (Nov 12, 2008)

Very well said brother.....


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

*How long can you tread water?*

I like that one


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

BTK, you most def are a great writer. You can totally put your reader in your position. What a gift.


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

^^ well said.


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## Lost_Kaus89 (Aug 4, 2009)

BTK you seriously need to write a book LOL Your an awesome writer.


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

I agree BTk is a wonderful writer & his article was a good read. But I still don't see why we have to "bring our worlds together." The breeds are as different as apples & oranges & most of their fanciers are as different too.

As for the BSL thing, the AST, SBT, American Bandogge Mastiffs & any other APBT, AST or SBT mix also fall under the "pit bull" banner, but you don't see any of them them up our butts. They do their own thing b/c they have their own agendas with their own breeds. Same thing for Rottie & American Bulldog people, 2 other breeds who are falling under the BSL gun. They're not knocking on our doors either. They too are doing their own thing.

I myself think if someone wants to buddy up w/ AmBully people that's fine. Gag me, but fine. I just don't think we should be forced to "bring our worlds together" when we & our breeds are pretty much polar opposites. That's like making a peanut butter & kimchi sandwich. Someone would like it, but what's the point?

And for the record, I don't "hate" bullies. These dogs can't be blamed for their breeders' irresponsibility & if anything those dogs have my pity, not my hate. As for the dogs that aren't deformed, some of them are pretty good looking dogs (I like EBs too, so I kinda like that funky look most of them have) & I'm sure they would make great pets. But what I DO hate is when they're pawned off as APBTs when they're most obviously NOT.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

ABK you're absolutely right about the other breeds. The only thing I'm going to chime in is, we as a BSL troubled community should unite. Bully people don't just stop with talking to people with APBT, we need to talk and unite other breeds as well. Two breeds united for the fight isn't crap when there are so many other breeds under the microscope just as much. 

Our methods of the past are proving not effective in todays world so why not change our strategic plan?


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

ABK said:


> I agree BTk is a wonderful writer & his article was a good read. But I still don't see why we have to "bring our worlds together." The breeds are as different as apples & oranges & most of their fanciers are as different too.
> 
> As for the BSL thing, the AST, SBT, American Bandogge Mastiffs & any other APBT, AST or SBT mix also fall under the "pit bull" banner, but you don't see any of them them up our butts. They do their own thing b/c they have their own agendas with their own breeds. Same thing for Rottie & American Bulldog people, 2 other breeds who are falling under the BSL gun. They're not knocking on our doors either. They too are doing their own thing.
> 
> ...


While I agree with certain points you have ABK, you are misconstruing the reality of the situation. There has not been one person portraying the idea of forcing anyone to "bring our worlds together." It is true that all of these are different breeds, and some, possibly even mixed breeds. However, they are all classified as being "pit bulls" to society, the media, the government and the self proclaimed "experts" who are destroying the lives of owners of each of these breeds.

During the discussions we had, it was obvious that each of these "breeds" are in fact separate in their entirety due to different breeding purposes and practices. However, as previously mentioned, they are also condemned to the same category. The reality is, the dogs, no matter what "breed," have no voice. The owners of one breed or another is simply not strong enough, in numbers, to oppose the laws and legislation that all of our dogs, and we face depending not upon the actual "breed" of our dog, but the category in which they are placed.

Because of this reality, it is important for all of us to set aside our differences and educate ourselves on the true problem for all of us. There is no one person who holds all of the answers. As a whole, we can learn from each other, teach the ignorant, arrogant or misguided, and together, save the breed that each individual holds dear to their heart.


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

Marty said:


> While I agree with certain points you have ABK, you are misconstruing the reality of the situation. There has not been one person portraying the idea of forcing anyone to "bring our worlds together." It is true that all of these are different breeds, and some, possibly even mixed breeds. However, they are all classified as being "pit bulls" to society, the media, the government and the self proclaimed "experts" who are destroying the lives of owners of each of these breeds.
> 
> During the discussions we had, it was obvious that each of these "breeds" are in fact separate in their entirety due to different breeding purposes and practices. However, as previously mentioned, they are also condemned to the same category. The reality is, the dogs, no matter what "breed," have no voice. The owners of one breed or another is simply not strong enough, in numbers, to oppose the laws and legislation that all of our dogs, and we face depending not upon the actual "breed" of our dog, but the category in which they are placed.
> 
> Because of this reality, it is important for all of us to set aside our differences and educate ourselves on the true problem for all of us. There is no one person who holds all of the answers. As a whole, we can learn from each other, teach the ignorant, arrogant or misguided, and together, save the breed that each individual holds dear to their heart.


*awesome read.*


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## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

The other breeds are definitely being reached out to, SBT and AmStaff without a doubt. Afterall my very own co host owns the Westminister Best of Breed winning AmStaff of 2009! I speak with several SBT owners on the regular, I new addition to our show is one of the more popular Banndog trainers and enthusiasts in Ca, and is one of the most respected AB trainers in the US. Steve will be introduced here shortly.

Just because everything in the works is nor posted on a message board, does not mean it's not in the works. With all of that said, these other groups IMO are not nearly as large, or on the immediate front line as the AmBully and the APBT. Here is why: the history and knowledge found in some APBT circles is tremendous, one has to know the history and purpose before one fights for the future of the breed. Community ambassadors like Marty are a valuable commodity in this regard. The media is constantly pumping out a fictitous history of our breed. I want to give the dogmen a voice as well, if you don't think it should be me, or be done by my methods, I can understand and respect that. My way is not the only way by any means.

As far as the AmBully community, in a short period of time the AmBully is rapidly becoming the face of Bully Breeds, notice I said Bully Breeds and not the APBT. Large shows, corporate sponsorships, television coverage and a force on the Internet. Eukanuba just sponsored the Nationals, Animal Planet filmed at the event. This is the first time a strictly Bully Breed was earning these sponsorships. Is it a good thing? In the fight against BSL most definitely. If the AmBully crowd denounces the APBT as a breed, and claims strongly that the APBT problem is not their problem, afterall they are seperate. Then as a whole we lose soldiers in this war against public perception, period.

In regards to forcing my beliefs on anyone I disagree. How so? I state my opinions as does everyone else. If you disagree and care not to participate then by all means, do you. I could sit here and argue, debate, cleverly bash a dog or line of dog, but it would be a waste of time and unproductive. My goal is that my children can own whichever Bully Breed they choose in the future. That they even have the choice between a AmBully or APBT. That's it, nothing more, if you believe that BSL is a locking jaw, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus myth then that's your perogative. I believe it's very real and have sat down with people who have been affected by legislation, children who have lost their pets. So steps have to be taken, puppy steps, but steps none the less to prevent this.

As far as infractions and warning members, I appreciate the passion and loyalty to ones breed of choice. I can throw barbs and nicely worded insults all day. I'm not sensative at all so these comments are petty and trivial, so I largely ignore them. 

If one can not understand why the meeting of breed enthusiasts then I can find, no other way to word it. I have offered people with oppossing views to debate me on our show, or at least voice their confusion or disdain for the situation. I know how information is poorly received through text.

ABK does not have to agree or understand, I have taken the time to explain. I may be poor at my ability to convey a acceptable answer through typing. I feel the true insult is the disdain or sarcasm directed at those who choose to unite. To disuade those who choose to is wrong. I fight for ABKs and other members dogs as much as mine, although niether person may be my biggest fan, I truly respect the breed and something has to be done for the dogs you admire and the PIT iful ones as well.

Marty great post! Shon too!!!

Thank you for the compliments on my writing, it means a lot! Most of my posts are from my Iphone so there tends to be errors lol!


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## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

I just reread ABK posts and there is something else I would like to post. In his first paragraph he states that not only the dogs are diffirent, but so are the people. That if the AmBully and APBT people want to buddy up then gag him, but fine.

I wonder how the people are different? We love our dogs differrent? Bleed different? Talk different? What? I'm just curious, as I do not want to jump to conclusions.

This way of thinking as a whole has divided communities far more impactful than any breed of dog. It was not to long ago that some members of society would have asked Marty

Why invite him into your home? Our people are different, I don't see the point, let them do there thing and we do ours. Why buddy up? We are not the same.

Thank god some had the courage and where with all to see past our differences and focus on our commonalities. To make a visit like this Fridays possible and the norm. 

I do see some aspects of his arguement, but most of the points are clouded by sterotypes and the total abandonment of the big picture. The fact is the amount of people truly fighting for the APBT is few, fighting for the AmBully...few, for the other breeds mentioned just as few. Put us together and you have 1% of the Bully Breed community even talking about it. So if more individuals focused on what we have in common as opposed to what makes the breeds different, the further we will come.

See overpopulation, nervy dogs, lack of mentorship and the ever looming dollar sign also are major issues. All of these issues can be addressed through education. Education is reached through open dialougue. Conversation and the breaking down of imaginary barriers. Our dogs may be different, but the fight is the same. The issues largely are the same.


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

BullyTheKid said:


> I wonder how the people are different? We love our dogs differrent? Bleed different? Talk different? What? I'm just curious, as I do not want to jump to conclusions.


BTK, all you have to do is look at them & you'll see the differences plain as day. Here are the ones I myself have seen:

* Bully breeders charging 1000s of dollars for a puppy that is either intentionally cross bred OR is purebred but was bred for a serious genetic defect.

* Bully owners dressing their dogs up with collars & harnesses that have 2 inch spikes & walking them on log chain leashes.

* Bully owners not putting their best foot forward while out with their dogs - i.e. dressing in pants 10 sizes too big with their underwear showing, etc. Not all bully owners do this of course, but the majority I have seen do.

* High profile bully owners such as rap stars featuring their dogs facing off snapping, snarling & acting vicious in their vids.

* Many bully people lie; either to make a sale, hang onto a cool name or through sheer ignorance. Bullies are NOT APBTs. I wish they would stop promoting them as such. The breeds have diverged so much they're as different as the moon is to the sun. Them saying their dogs are APBTs is like me going out & getting a purebred AKC AST & saying it's an APBT.

Pit bull owners meanwhile are almost always completely opposite of this. This is what I have observed about APBT owners

* APBT puppies - even well bred ones - usually have a reasonable price tag ($500 - $1000 depending on the pup) & they are usually not purposely bred for serious defects.

* APBT owners rarely "spike out" their dogs & walk them on chain leashes. Although I will admit I have seen some APBT owners who make their dogs wear the Wal-Mart collars with the small stud spikes. Not good, but much better than those 2 inch knife collars a lot of bully owners like & much less frequent.

* Most (but not all) APBT owners try to look their best while out with their dogs.

* Most APBT owners do not feature their dogs snapping, snarling & acting vicious in public.

* And most important of all, APBT owners do not claim to have something they're not. For example, I have yet to see an APBT person claim his dog is a Dogo or a Presa like the AmBully people do (claiming they have APBT when they do NOT).

I hope this helps.

And yes, I agree if we could get EVERYONE on board (AmBully, APBT, AST, SBT, ABM, AmBulldog, Rottie & those who have mixes of those breeds) together as a unified force, we would have a fair chance at fighting BSL. But they're NOT on board with us & there is a reason. As my mother said "oil & water don't mix."

I hope this clarified any questions you may have had.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

* Bully breeders charging 1000s of dollars for a puppy that is either intentionally cross bred OR is purebred but was bred for a serious genetic defect. - APK can you please describe what this "genetic defect" is?* I'm confused as to this statement. The majority of the bullies I personally have seen are not cross bred nor have genetic defects. They are healthy active dogs. As for the price tag, it's a stylish dog now, such as paying 1000's of dollars for a show Pom or German Shepherd. If someone likes the dog and is willing to pay it, they that is their choice. *

* Bully owners dressing their dogs up with collars & harnesses that have 2 inch spikes & walking them on log chain leashes. -* I don't agree with them doing this, but the reason they do it is to project a 'hard' look. Most bullies are about as gentle as a kitten but they look to be a strong and muscular breed. This I would compare to someone putting flames on the side of a Camero&#8230;I think it looks horrible but people do it to make a statement. Again, culture differences*

* Bully owners not putting their best foot forward while out with their dogs - i.e. dressing in pants 10 sizes too big with their underwear showing, etc. Not all bully owners do this of course, but the majority I have seen do. - *I'm a bully owner, I own an ICK brought out of Juan Gotti XL Bully. I'm a 27 year old white male with 2 college educations and work as a systems administrator for a Fortune 500 company in Louisiana. My style of dress varies from day to day on how I feel. I wear my pant baggy or I can wear a polo shirt with cargo shorts. BTK is a black male that dresses with a backwards baseball cap and baggy pants, He also dresses in slacks when in the show ring&#8230;BTK also doesn't own bullies, he owns a GRCH UKC APBT, PitterStaff, so that statement is true in some aspects but not all. I've seen people here in Louisiana own "true APBT" that dress as you described and Bully owners dressed like good ol' boys.*

* High profile bully owners such as rap stars featuring their dogs facing off snapping, snarling & acting vicious in their vids. - *Can't fix stupid. That's the point of getting us to get to educate and explain that this isn't a good look for us. Mike Vick is high profile and was fighting APBT's&#8230;*

* Many bully people lie; either to make a sale, hang onto a cool name or through sheer ignorance. Bullies are NOT APBTs. I wish they would stop promoting them as such. The breeds have diverged so much they're as different as the moon is to the sun. Them saying their dogs are APBTs is like me going out & getting a purebred AKC AST & saying it's an APBT. - *The reason they describe them as APBT is because most people that are purchasing bullies don't realize that they are AmBullies. The Kennels market them as APBT because that is the national known way of describing the breed. They are still registered as such, so until ABKC has become more well known it'll be hard to change that. Again the reason we need to join hands.*

Pit bull owners meanwhile are almost always completely opposite of this. This is what I have observed about APBT owners

* APBT puppies - even well bred ones - usually have a reasonable price tag ($500 - $1000 depending on the pup) & they are usually not purposely bred for serious defects. - *Again I'm not sure about the defect. But yes, the APBT is priced as such because it's pointed to a specific audience. *

* APBT owners rarely "spike out" their dogs & walk them on chain leashes. Although I will admit I have seen some APBT owners who make their dogs wear the Wal-Mart collars with the small stud spikes. Not good, but much better than those 2 inch knife collars a lot of bully owners like & much less frequent. - *Can't argue that. It's the culture of the 2 dogs, so no you will see the difference. *

* Most (but not all) APBT owners try to look their best while out with their dogs. - *This I have to disagree with. The majority of APBT owners I know don't bring their dogs in public. And most owners of APBT that I personally know are good ol' boys. So again your perception is just that your perception. The breeds are different and for different people. 
*
* Most APBT owners do not feature their dogs snapping, snarling & acting vicious in public. -* I've seen more APBT than bullies do this&#8230;so again I have to humbly disagree with you on this.*

* And most important of all, APBT owners do not claim to have something they're not. For example, I have yet to see an APBT person claim his dog is a Dogo or a Presa like the AmBully people do (claiming they have APBT when they do NOT). - *See the above pertaining to this.
*

Again, I had a quick temper I spouted off because I take offence to people that call my dog a genetic defect. And I apologize for that. But still, I personally would rather fight a fight with people like Marty that understand the need to join fronts. Our dogs are Pitbulls plain and simple. I own an AmBully and I know I do&#8230;I call it such. But when I'm at an ADBA show or a UKC show, I would like to compete with other "PitBulls" in the ring or on the track. If the APBT people don't want the Bullies in there competing then that's fine. ABKC is coming up and it's becoming more recognized so we can separate ourselves. I'm using my UKC to get Jonezie in the ABKC because I want her to be an AmBully not an APBT. And the other reason for that is if the BSL does ban APBT, I won't have one and I can still help with the fight and have a recognized breed and help the APBT people from having theirs banned further.

But this will be the last posting from me. Take care everyone.

Cheers~
James


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

ABK said:


> BTK, all you have to do is look at them & you'll see the differences plain as day. Here are the ones I myself have seen:
> 
> * Bully breeders charging 1000s of dollars for a puppy that is either intentionally cross bred OR is purebred but was bred for a serious genetic defect.
> 
> ...


Im a Bully owner...and...
-my dog has no genetic defect...
-Maile doesnt get walked around on huge chain leash (with me) or wear a 2" spiked collar...
-I wear nice clothes. I shop at Neiman Marcus. My jeans alone cost over $200, so Im curious as to how thats not putting my best foot forward? I carry Louis Vuitton handbags, I wear Burberry shoes (Im not sitting here bragging, Im stating the FACT that your statement is false)...
-And LMFAO about APBT owners trying to look their best. I cant count more APBT owners that look a mess than Bully...
-Maile never bites, snaps or snarls anywhere, public included. Bullies are MUCH LESS if not at all DA than APBTs...
-My dog is an American Bully, not an APBT, nor a Presa or anything else...

You need to take a step back ABK and quit stereotyping. Im a well-to do female, college educated, went to a private high school, I ride horses with some of the richest people in the country...all who LOVE Maile...


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

*davidfitness:* I was only describing what I have seen both in person & on the internet. Is it a lot of people? Yes, it is.

*JFlowers:* It has even been said by D. Wilson himself that some breeders have bred EBs into their Bullies. Thus, they are cross breeds. As for the defect, it is called *chondrodysplasia*. Almost ALL bullies have it to one degree or another & it is a genetic defect. I have already posted a link about this defect on the board once. But I guess no bully people wanted to check it out (not surprising). 

* As for the price tag thing, there is a word for that. It's called being a "greeder." Style has nothing to do with it. It's greed, plain & simple. As the old saying goes "a fool & his money are soon parted" & there are tons of greeders just salivating to pounce on any unsuspecting fool that falls for their sales pitch. 

* As for the spiked collars, as you said - culture differences. The 2 breeds are different as are their owners for the most part. Which is why I compared melding bully owners & APBT owners to making a peanut butter & kimchi sandwich. lol. For the most part our trains of thought, perspectives & values are miles apart. I just can't see fusing the two. But that is just me.

* And I agree MV was high profile & he didn't do much for our dogs. In fact, his fiasco was terrible for them. But his vids aren't getting mega play on BMT & MTV Rap over & over & over again, encouraging youth to go out & buy these dogs & abuse them or make them mean either.

* As for the dress of bully owners, I know not ALL of them dress that way. That's why I used the key word *MOST* (gotta look for those key words). However the majority of the ones I have seen do dress this way.

* The reason people don't KNOW they are AmBullies is b/c the breeders aren't telling them! They might miss out on a sale if they did. They'd rather use the big, bad name "pit bull" so that can make that $3000 puppy sale. 

* And I don't think us joining hands with the bullies is going to help this. In fact, I think the bully folks need to learn to stand up on their own two feet instead of leaning on us & get the ABKC where it needs to be. (BTW I fully support the ABKC & if I ever get a bully it will be registered through ABKC only!!)

* "The breeds are different and for different people." How true!! This is what I have been trying to say. And just as you wouldn't force a vegan to eat beef, why try to foce a APBT fancier to pair up w/ a bully fancier?

* As for APBT people not bringing their dogs in public it depends on the person & locale. I for one take my non-DA dogs to the pet store, to the co-op, for walks on leash, to friends' houses, out for rides as well as to shows & pulls of course. Others prefer to keep their dogs cloistered & I fully understand & respect that.

* "I've seen more APBT than bullies do this ..." I thought you just said most APBT people do not allow their dogs in public? 

I understand your desire to defend your dog(s). But if you knew more about the breed you'd know that they ARE either mixed bred or purposely bred for defects. I'm sure they make great house pets & all, but facts are facts whether you wish to acknowledge them or not. It doesn't make the dog a lesser dog as far as a pet goes, but please recognize the dog for what it is.

*mygirlmaile: * I'm sorry my dear, but your bully does have a genetic defect. See the post above. It's called *chondrodysplasia.* Research it sometime. I have already proved a link in another thread to make it easy for you bully folks.

* I think it's great you do not force your dog to wear a spiked collar or chain leash! 

* Once again, like your compatriot JFlowers, you missed the word MOST in my post. I did not say ALL bully owners put their worst foot forward while out with their dogs. I said MOST. Gotta look for those key words.

* As for bully vs. APBT owners "looking a mess" I have seen both. But in my experience it has been the bully people (not all, but most) who walk about showing everyone their underwear. 

* I think it's great your dog doesn't aggress in public. But you are one person compared to how many? For every one time Maile acts great in public in your neighborhood, how many times is some rap vid being played nation wide featuring aggressive bullies?

* Don't fool yourself into thinking bullies are not DA. Less DA on average, yes. But they are not completely void of DA as a breed.

* I'm glad you call your dog an American Bully! I think that's awesome! But let me ask you this - do you call her am American Bully in public or correct anyone who calls her a pit bull?

As for "stereotyping" why is it the bully people get all in a tizzy when someone points out the major factors of their culture? Now YOU personally may not fit the mold, but for 1 person who doesn't, there might be 99 who do. So is it then stereotyping, or is it just telling the truth, the truth of which some folks simply don't want to hear? To once again quote my knowledgeable mother "sometimes the truth hurts."

I hope I have clarfied any points that were unclear concerning my POV on this.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

ABK said:


> *davidfitness:* I was only describing what I have seen both in person & on the internet. Is it a lot of people? Yes, it is.
> 
> *JFlowers:* It has even been said by D. Wilson himself that some breeders have bred EBs into their Bullies. Thus, they are cross breeds. As for the defect, it is called *chondrodysplasia*. Almost ALL bullies have it to one degree or another & it is a genetic defect. I have already posted a link about this defect on the board once. But I guess no bully people wanted to check it out (not surprising).
> 
> ...


Well said! I think calling things how it is and taking jabs because you don't know any better are two completely different things! Very opinionated, but very precise and respectful. GOod post!


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

:thumbsup:WOW ABK!________________________________
Thanks for clearing all that up


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

ABK while I love what you write, I do disagree some... of course i don't fit into the any of the stereotypes. My dogs do not have chondrodyplasia even though they are bullies. Even though they are built thicker, they still "fall within the APBT standard" if you take it literally. I'm not being negative towards you because i know both sides of the fence.... I had an APBT before an Am Bully. My Bullies highly favor the Am Staff/UKC style bulldogs since that is the way the breeding program worked for my dogs genetic make up. I cannot speak for the other 85% of the Bully community, but there are a few good ones of us. I live in the country, I wear fitted clothes, and I have had one litter... placed one dog for free, but then took it back. Now i have the entire litter at home. I know i don't live in a BSL state, but I would fight just as hard for your dog or dogs as I would my own.

EDIT: I lied... i do have one garrish get up...a harness with spikes, but Indigo has worn it 2 times within the last year. Once was for my ammusement in the back yard, and the other was to go to my mothers house to get a good chuckle.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

ABK, thank you for sharing your opinions. I humbly disagree with some and agree with others. Cheers~ James

Edit: I guess when you say "bully" you're thinking of Pocket breed bullies or the Shorties not the Classic, such as IBC stated or mine that is an XL (22-24" to the withers). 

So you are describing one dog and calling it Bully. There are in fact three categories of Bully pocket (the EB looking ones that you are referring to), classic (PitterStaff), and XL (PitterStaff's but larger). 

Shorties aren't considered to be AmBully by the way. The creator of the at breed has crossed EB, AmStaff, and French bulldogs to create that. That is known. 

So I can see your point if you're lumping them all together.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> ABK while I love what you write, I do disagree some... of course i don't fit into the any of the stereotypes. My dogs do not have chondrodyplasia even though they are bullies. Even though they are built thicker, they still "fall within the APBT standard" if you take it literally. I'm not being negative towards you because i know both sides of the fence.... I had an APBT before an Am Bully. My Bullies highly favor the Am Staff/UKC style bulldogs since that is the way the breeding program worked for my dogs genetic make up. I cannot speak for the other 85% of the Bully community, but there are a few good ones of us. I live in the country, I wear fitted clothes, and I have had one litter... placed one dog for free, but then took it back. Now i have the entire litter at home. I know i don't live in a BSL state, but I would fight just as hard for your dog or dogs as I would my own.


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

*StaffyDaddy & reddog *: Thank you for your kind words & understanding.

*Indigo Bully:* How do you know your dogs don't have chondrodysplasia? Have you had your dogs examined to make sure they don't? Some of yours don't since I can see them & their legs look normal from what I can see. But the ones with the "thicker bone" would I would be suspect of, as thicker bone is this is one of the symptoms of the disease. I tried to see if you had a photo album I could view to check out your dogs, but I didn't see one as I am still trying to figure out the functions of this board. 

BTW here's one of my dirty little secrets - I have a garish collar for one of my dogs. My husband's little Miniature Pincher wears a studded collar. lol.

*JFlowers:* Thank you for letting me know about the type of bullies. I know Shorty Bulls don't count & I know that bullies have separated into 3 different types now. From the pictures on the ABKC website, all 3 types have problems, but the bully pocket seem most afflicted. Please remember, chondrodysplasia can range from being mild (almost imperceptable, likely seen in classics & XLs) to very severe (bully pocket).

Once again, I do hope this has clarified my stance on the issue.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

All this talk about dwarfism is dumb, I'm not sure if you're serious or if you're just stirring the pot. Pocket height isn't even that short. If my APBT we a bully she'd be considered a pocket, but she's a pretty standard APBT. She's tucked and weighs about 40lbs, which to some is kinda large... AND SHE'S TUCKED! So are you saying that at her size, with her legs, she's a dwarf?


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

ABK;225238
[B said:


> Indigo Bully:[/B] How do you know your dogs don't have chondrodysplasia? Have you had your dogs examined to make sure they don't? Some of yours don't since I can see them & their legs look normal from what I can see. But the ones with the "thicker bone" would I would be suspect of, as thicker bone is this is one of the symptoms of the disease. I tried to see if you had a photo album I could view to check out your dogs, but I didn't see one as I am still trying to figure out the functions of this board.


What sort of test can you preform to prove that they aren't even carriers? I know the sire to my litter is on the short side, but still falls within means of the standard. None of my dogs have over done bone, and when I made my decision to get an Am bully i scrutenized the pedigree. As you know there aren't many PERFECT am bully pedigrees, but i figured if I was going to get one of these dogs I might as well do it right.. I know of 1 dog which was an outcross which is overdone within my 7 generation pedigree.... well since the puppies... 8 generations. So I guess there is a possiblity that Indigo is a carrier, but she didn't produce anything like that. I don't think I'll be breeding Indigo again to find out if something pops up. She was a crappy mother and I won't put MYSELF through that torture again! I won't say that my "newer generation" won't produce it, but time will only tell. When something is produced that I don't like, I will place it in a home on a spay/neuter contract.

Oh man, I have a crap ton of new pictures to post up... i usually post my photos in the Picture forum... but my new camera takes such huge pictures i'm struggling with uploading them. I spent 2 hours trying to up load them to photobucket, just for it to time out when the bar his 100%... I was ANGRY lmao. I'll get more shots up this week.


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## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

*Wow! There have been some good points made.

There are definitely individuals that fit the mold that ABK decribed, without a doubt. I would lose the arguement if I argued there are not. I do however feel that a large amount of AmBully owners are not this way.

See the thing is, one of the major issues we discussed during this worthless meeting lol. Is how the average APBT does not fit either extreme. They are not the die hard dogman, nor are they the street urchin, many would portray Bully breed owners as. The lack of knowledge about the dog they own. The accidents per se, when someone feels that any APBT or mix for that matter is going to be the next Lassie, and are surprised when the dog exhibits true characteristics of the breed.

Breeding for faults, definitely occured! Without a doubt the AmBully does not fit any APBT standard. Genetic conditions, I also will concur that this happened. As I have seen dogs that obviously suffer from dwarfism used in breeding programs. NOT ALL, by any means, but some, so I can not say this did not occur. I think knowing your AmBullies ped and the dogs within in it, is essential. As any genetic defect should not be bred in my opinion. To achieve a specific look takes longer if done the correct way and breeders took short cuts. I can name AmBully breeders who I would trust that did it the right way, and there dogs may not be as extreme, but they have wonderful examples of the breed.

Lies: Definitely true! Only thing is a lot of breeders have lied, game dog breeders have lied about matched dogs, about sires and dames, as far as APBT people passing dogs off as pure, ummm heard of Whopper, Edington, and even some Camelot? It happens, I will concur that some AmBully breeders have lied as well, money brings at less truth than any other item. Not all lie, and I can name quite a few who I would trust if I ever purchased a AmBully, not all breeders of any breed are scum. I would go farther and say its not the majority, I think more need to do research to know that what they are selling is what they are advertising.

Money; Money is relative, a lot of money to you may not be a lot of money to me. My Aunt purchased a PWD for 3000 and my neighbor just purchased a Akita for 2500, both way more than I would pay, but whether or not the breeder was a greeder (I like that by the way, im going to have to use it lol), is determined by what the dog was worth to the buyer, and the seller.

As far as rap videos, I have seen a ton and maybe a handful feature AmBullies. The DMX videos were all more of game bred styled dogs, than AmBullies. As were the Snoop dog vids. Big Boi of OutKast has some larger APBTS featured, but not neccessarily AmBullies. If you know of some I could check out let me know. Im not saying they do not exist, just that I have not seen them.

Clothes, I do agree on the point that a well groomed, well dressed person, gives off a better impression than a sloppily dressed individual. However, if I am going to mess with my dogs, im not wearing my Sunday best lol. My Uncle dressed in a dirty overalls everytime we went to work dogs, as did countless other dogmen I have known.

Clothing does not determine, whether or not someone is a good owner. The fact that I live in a well to do suburb of Atlanta does not make me a good owner. Living in a bad area does not make you a bad owner, nor does individual wealth. What makes me a good owner is the knowledge and experience I have as a breed owner. Spike collars do not make a dog meaner, its hard to look mean while you are wagging your tail, or wagging your whole body in most cases.

As far as HA exhibited by Bully Owners, I have not witnessed this at shows. The last show I attended had 5000 people and over 300 AmBullies. No bites, no close calls, no exhibitions of human aggression. There were dogs that exhibited dog aggression, it was discouraged in the few cases I witnessed.

There definitely is a element of both communities that relish in the ignorance of displayed aggression, the thought of having the baddest dog on the block. I have seen it on both sides. I have been at 2 ADBA shows where the facing off was far more prevalent. Does it bother me, nope, the breed is what it is. Although I personally dont put to much stock in a dog that is making exaggerated threat displays, it means nothing.

As far as price, we live in America and the day people stop trying to make money off of dogs is a long way off lol. The quote used, "A fool and his money are soon seperated" is defenitely true. Education and teaching people what makes a dog valuable is the key, that is what I try to do. Alkthough what the next man spends with his hard earned money has no effect on the living arrangements in my home, so I do not bother with price tags. If I buy a dog for a exuberant amount, it will be because I feel that dog is worth it. My best dog I received for free, the worst dog I owned I paid $600 for, and the others all range in price, up to $1500.

I dont breed so the worth of the dog is not gotten back financially. So the money is well worth it, if the dog brightens my life for 13 years per se, I paid a little over 100 a year for the life of the animal. I pay more than that fishing a year lol.

The AmBully community is defensive, in regards to their breed. I understand why, often the critiques are brash, and harsh. However, I encourage the honesty and for more people to not fit the sterotype. As a Bully Breed owner you will be judged, I think the hip hop culture is more accepted than most would think. I have never had a issue in regards to speaking with people, I have had great jobs, I have started buisnesses and I have graduated from a prominent University. I dont need to dress a certain way to prove this, those are facts. I have not been in prison, never done any recreational drugs, married the mother of my children, before any were born lol and own my own home, mortgage free. I have not only read about this breed but I have experienced this breed from a early age. I have always engaged in open conversations with all APBT owners, and now AmBully owners. I know for a fact that I have helped some people who would have contributed to the "Pitbull Problem"

It is my opinion that had a chose to seperate myself from individuals because of superficial attributes, I would have helped far less.

After meeting the gentleman in the OP, I can say none of them have been forced to do anything they did not want to do lol! Definitely not in their own home! I think they like myself like to talk about the breed and what is going on with the dogs.

ABK, thank you for sharing your opinions, and I will say that public perception is far more in line with your posts and opinions than mine. I, however, have always known that perception is not always reality.

The number of AmBully owners on this very forum, who go against your described perception of the owners says enough. I would gather that most of them do not fit the mold. I agree you can find countless ones who do, as I could find countless poor examples of APBT owners, the question is what would that accomplish?

Once again, thanks for all of the comments and opinions!

I also wanted to state that when i joined this site, I never wanted to bring controversey, or division to this forum. If I have brought more issues than education, I apologize and will be more conscience of my posts and topics in the future. I have been informed that in the time frame of me joining this site, there has been more division amongst the two groups, so I wanted to clarify I have always believed that honest open communication, is the key to education. I do not have to agree with ABK, Marty, or anyone else to learn something.

Thanks for all the comments on this thread! *


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## Aidan (Nov 3, 2009)

Owners not coming together no matter what the breed is dumb. After all, in the end if we loose, we are all the same. A person without a dog.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Killa don't stress it. If this controversy isn't acknolwedged and dealt with today, it will only be dealt with further down the road. You are a key player in this battle, and we need more like you. To see both sides of the story. 

As for everyone else. If I see another hypersensitive piddle match... people will get banned. We are here to discuss dogs... Why squander a positive thread when there's a difference in oppinions. That's just it... oppinions, just like butt holes.... the only way to learn is from different oppinions and facts... pile them together and you can be educated. We as a mod staff want more reported posts so we can chose to deal with it how we see fit.

I had to delete a total of 8 posts within this thread. Please stay on topic.


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

Hello guys. Sorry I haven't been participating. I had some errands to run. Anyway, CD is NOT dwarfism!! CD from what I have read is a defect concerning bone growth & plate closure, not a gland abnormality.

Here are some link on CD, I shall post them yet AGAIN ...

Chondrodysplasia in Havanese

RhosynGSD - Largest German Shepherd Dog Database in Australia - *CHONDRODYSPLASIA*


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## t1dirty (May 21, 2009)

this was a great read............a lot of good points


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## ShakaZ (Nov 12, 2009)

I would gladly march under the banner of Marty, Shon, BTk, and Hemi in the war against BSL, as somebody (i forgot who at the moment) said "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." make no mistake my friends with bsl there is definately a war going on and as Marty said in another forum if we are divided then they will conquer. (that includes all breeds that are in the gun sites of bsl) so please stop trying to fight progress. The bully breed is here, love it or not, and the best thing we can do for the love of apbts as well as bullies is band together. (NOT BREED TOGETHER, BAND TOGETHER) but thats jmo.


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## ShakaZ (Nov 12, 2009)

we should be like the knotted ropes some of us use with our dogs... not easily broken. and to us in certain circles we should be as game as our dogs... shouldn't we? Or maybe it's just wishful thinking from an "up and comer."


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

BUMP GOOD READ


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## SMOKIN HEMI (Nov 12, 2008)

ShakaZ said:


> I would gladly march under the banner of Marty, Shon, BTk, and Hemi in the war against BSL, as somebody (i forgot who at the moment) said "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." make no mistake my friends with bsl there is definately a war going on and as Marty said in another forum if we are divided then they will conquer. (that includes all breeds that are in the gun sites of bsl) so please stop trying to fight progress. The bully breed is here, love it or not, and the best thing we can do for the love of apbts as well as bullies is band together. (NOT BREED TOGETHER, BAND TOGETHER) but thats jmo.


Thanks Brother......:rofl:


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