# notorious juan gotti?



## TheBullBeastLover

is juan gotti dead just asking i see alot of his sons and daughters but no him


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## gamecock10

I heard he ate himself to death....JK


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## TheBullBeastLover

Lol!!! he was a big boy in his pictures


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## drsven

TheBullBeastLover said:


> is juan gotti dead just asking i see alot of his sons and daughters but no him


I really don't know for sure but he was whelped sometime in 1997. I would say there is a good chance he's still alive.


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## GSDBulldog

I'm almost positive he's alive, and if not, then he died rather recently.

Which is funny when you think about it, because he shows up so often in the 5th and 6th generation in many dogs' pedigrees. It makes you wonder just how young these dogs are when they're being bred... and bred and bred.


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## TheBullBeastLover

wow ive actually seen a ped of a juan gotty daughter being bred with himself i was like WDF and i think th kennel that did it kept 1 male and his name was geronimo i cant remeber the site i mean i just think its kinda crazy when you see juan gotty in the sire and damn peds and then you breed them with juan gotti lol


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## TheBullBeastLover

drsven said:


> I really don't know for sure but he was whelped sometime in 1997. I would say there is a good chance he's still alive.


Whelped? ye i know im a noob =]


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## drsven

GSDBulldog said:


> I'm almost positive he's alive, and if not, then he died rather recently.
> 
> Which is funny when you think about it, because he shows up so often in the 5th and 6th generation in many dogs' pedigrees. It makes you wonder just how young these dogs are when they're being bred... and bred and bred.


I've read he sired his first litter at 7 months old. I would love to know how many registered litters he sired with UKC.


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## drsven

TheBullBeastLover said:


> Whelped? ye i know im a noob =]


same as born.


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## TheBullBeastLover

Dang!!! he was sexually mature at 7 months da hell good god lol


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## GSDBulldog

drsven said:


> I've read he sired his first litter at 7 months old. I would love to know how many registered litters he sired with UKC.


I'm afraid to know.


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## Patch O' Pits

> Dang!!! he was sexually mature at 7 months


males can produce pretty early, but it doesn't mean they should...



> I've read he sired his first litter at 7 months old.


That's sad :curse:


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## drsven

Patch O' Pits said:


> males can produce pretty early, but it doesn't mean they should....


I'm sure you already know this, but to those that don't: A female can become pregnant at her first heat which is at ~6 months old. A responsible breeder would never allow this to happen. But with the greedy, irresponsible (no paper) folks it happens quite often.


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## TheBullBeastLover

gosh im trying to find info about him but all i see is wannabe dogs that look like him or just thet one pic of him with no info


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## drsven

looks like he's still alive, these guys claim to have a litter of his pups that just dropped:

http://www.standoutkennels.com/ForSale.html


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## drsven

*Found the history story I had read a while ago*

here it is:

THE HISTORY OF GOTTILINE

Gottiline was founded by Richard Barajas of West Side Kennels. He is the owner of Gottiline's foundation sire, "The Notorious Juan Gotty". In 1997, he purchased Gotty from a gentleman by the name of Tony Moore. (Tony Moore is the owner of Gray Line Kennels in Los Angeles, California. The foundation bitch of Greyline was the late Showtime. Showtime is the producer of Gotty's father, 'PR' Greyline's Raider 2.) He purchase Gotty for the amount of $1,300. When Gotty was approximately 7 weeks old his sire, "Raider" passed away. When Gotty was 7 months he sired his first litter. He went on to produce many foundation males and females including Coldens Blue Rhino, and Felony (The sire and dam of 21 Blackjack), New Troijan's Dillenger, Pate's Blue Beast, Gottiline's Monster, Do Good Big Boy, and Westside's Capone just to name a few. Gotty is the sire of nearly 650 U.K.C. registered American Pit Bull Terriers. Since 1997, Gottiline has spread across the USA, Canada, China, the Philippines, and Japan. Juan Gotty will go down in history as one of the greatest dogs in the bully style movement.


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## wheezie

hes still alive


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## sw_df27

looks like he's still alive and kickin I wonder why you can't fine any recent photo's of him online or anything


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## drsven

sw_df27 said:


> looks like he's still alive and kickin I wonder why you can't fine any recent photo's of him online or anything


He probably looks terrible, he's 10 years old! I'm wondering if the owner collected frozen sperm and is selling it or if the breedings are natural. The UKC has pretty loose rules when it comes to frozen sperm and artificial insemination.


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## TheBullBeastLover

lol its so many false claimers saying that they have juan G. that they probably cant put any picz of him up and if hes 10 yeas old hes probably about i said weighin a ton and a half now lol JP


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## GSDBulldog

I wonder if when he finally does go to the bridge, if paper hanging will become even more evident in the line?


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## Patch O' Pits

I wonder...Is he or any of his offspring DNA-P


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## drsven

Patch O' Pits said:


> I wonder...Is he or any of his offspring DNA-P


His DNA is probably on file with the UKC to determine if claimed offspring belong to him. My understanding is that his parents DNA is not on file and are both dead. It would be almost impossible for UKC registered dogs to have Gotti falsely listed as a direct parent in it's pedigree. The UKC will verify if Gotti's owner signed the litter registration papers and I don't think his owner would falsely sign litter registration forms. It really wouldn't be in his best interest, he can legitimately stud Gotti out for quite a bit of money. If you see Gotti a few generations back then it could be false information.


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## Indigo Bully Connection

*he's*

He's dead... I have magazine with an interview of Richard... He didn't say how he died and talked about him in the past tense throughout the whole story. He kept some of his offspring to continue the line. if that guy who owns that site had the money to pay for the stud service from NJG then he would have enough to make his site more presentable


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## drsven

NEELA said:


> He's dead... I have magazine with an interview of Richard... He didn't say how he died and talked about him in the past tense throughout the whole story. He kept some of his offspring to continue the line. if that guy who owns that site had the money to pay for the stud service from NJG then he would have enough to make his site more presentable


I'm still not sure that he's dead, but I agree there may be a good chance. I spoke with a good friend that is big into "bully" type dogs about the breeding from Standout Kennels. He said they used to go by the name "ESOTERIC Kennels". The breeding is most likely legit, Esoteric bred dogs are respected in the bully world. I have not had a chance to call or email about the breeding but my guess it that it's an artifical insemination.


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## wheezie

im on a bully forum and asked the question and they all said he is alive


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## Tough-n-Tender Kennels

THE HISTORY OF GOTTILINE - BY RICHARD BARAJAS

Gottiline was founded by Richard Barajas of West Side Kennels. He is the owner of Gottiline's foundation sire, "The Notorious Juan Gotty". In 1997, he purchased Gotty from a gentleman by the name of Tony Moore. (Tony Moore is the owner of Gray Line Kennels in Los Angeles, California. The foundation bitch of Greyline was the late Showtime. Showtime is the producer of Gotty's father, 'PR' Greyline's Raider 2.) He purchase Gotty for the amount of $1,300. When Gotty was approximately 7 weeks old his sire, "Raider" passed away. When Gotty was 7 months he sired his first litter. He went on to produce many foundation males and females including Coldens Blue Rhino, and Felony (The sire and dam of 21 Blackjack), New Troijan's Dillenger, Pate's Blue Beast, Gottiline's Monster, Do Good Big Boy, and Westside's Capone just to name a few. Gotty is the sire of nearly 650 U.K.C. registered American Pit Bull Terriers. Since 1997, Gottiline has spread across the USA, Canada, China, the Philippines, and Japan. Juan Gotty will go down in history as one of the greatest dogs in the bully style movement.

http://www.slide.com/r/DDFA8SUAzT-mtJQe1EhWhFvnosJX_00m?previous_view=lt_embedded_url

http://greylinepitbulls.kinnemankennels.com/2007/06/history-of-gottiline-by-richard-barajas.html


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## Indigo Bully Connection

Tough-n-Tender Kennels said:


> THE HISTORY OF GOTTILINE - BY RICHARD BARAJAS
> 
> Gottiline was founded by Richard Barajas of West Side Kennels. He is the owner of Gottiline's foundation sire, "The Notorious Juan Gotty". In 1997, he purchased Gotty from a gentleman by the name of Tony Moore. (Tony Moore is the owner of Gray Line Kennels in Los Angeles, California. The foundation bitch of Greyline was the late Showtime. Showtime is the producer of Gotty's father, 'PR' Greyline's Raider 2.) He purchase Gotty for the amount of $1,300. When Gotty was approximately 7 weeks old his sire, "Raider" passed away. When Gotty was 7 months he sired his first litter. He went on to produce many foundation males and females including Coldens Blue Rhino, and Felony (The sire and dam of 21 Blackjack), New Troijan's Dillenger, Pate's Blue Beast, Gottiline's Monster, Do Good Big Boy, and Westside's Capone just to name a few. Gotty is the sire of nearly 650 U.K.C. registered American Pit Bull Terriers. Since 1997, Gottiline has spread across the USA, Canada, China, the Philippines, and Japan. Juan Gotty will go down in history as one of the greatest dogs in the bully style movement.
> 
> http://www.slide.com/r/DDFA8SUAzT-mtJQe1EhWhFvnosJX_00m?previous_view=lt_embedded_url
> 
> http://greylinepitbulls.kinnemankennels.com/2007/06/history-of-gottiline-by-richard-barajas.html


this sounds exactly like the artical i read... It was a while ago. I must've gotten him confused with his father. I have the Atomic Dog issue with the story of Gotti line in it... i read quickly. I will have to bust it out again! Thanks you guys for correcting me! I would think if he is still alive that they would update some photos on him... i've only seen a few and most are in poor quality. Do ya'll see what im talking about? it is all in past tense


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## GSDBulldog

7 months old?


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## smokey_joe

GSDBulldog said:


> 7 months old?


My thoughts exactly...


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## cherol

NEELA said:


> I would think if he is still alive that they would update some photos on him... i've only seen a few and most are in poor quality. Do ya'll see what im talking about? it is all in past tense


This is the one I keep finding...

There's also a pic of his parents on one of the sites.... Of course I have no idea if he's alive or not, but it was weird how they wrote he article inpast tense...


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## Indigo Bully Connection

cherol said:


> This is the one I keep finding...
> 
> There's also a pic of his parents on one of the sites.... Of course I have no idea if he's alive or not, but it was weird how they wrote he article inpast tense...


yea i've seen this one too I believe the first time i saw it was about 2 years ago...


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## sw_df27

either way I think he's beautiful even for a what do you guys call them Hippos? lol


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## Indigo Bully Connection

i agree he is a handsome boy


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## Patch O' Pits

The dog is cute but looks very unhealthy to me and makes me think of this condition 
genetic disorders dwarfism 
http://www.gocco.co.za/large_breed_defects1.htm 
http://www.geocities.com/aladarbeagles/dwarf.html 
http://www.amrf.info/chd.htm


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## Indigo Bully Connection

I just found a picture of him that i haven't seen before. I saw those links on the other thread. That is sad. I can see in the first picture where it kinda looks like that, but this picture shows me something alittle different... definately far from conformation, but not dwarfism. I think Juan is one of those all around big dogs. look at where he is compared to the knee....


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## Indigo Bully Connection

knee and waist


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## Patch O' Pits

You can't go off of that unless you know how tall the person is holding him. Some of mine look huge compared to me because I am only 5'2 3/4. 

Legs that are too short for the body are part of the disorder and that is what it looks like in the picts. It could be the picts. I've never seen the dog in person so I can't say

He has a cute face, but is not, my kind of dog. I like better structure and proportions. I'll just leave it at that.


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## ashbash91

Juan Gotti is still around......Rich only breeds him with certain females though...... 

o0o just to tell yall monster's papers are hung.... His dam Ebony was breed with 3 different males on the same heat when she got pregnant with Monster and his littermates....and when the pups where born they used Gotti's ped......Just to educate you a little.....


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## drsven

ashbash91 said:


> Juan Gotti is still around......Rich only breeds him with certain females though......
> 
> o0o just to tell yall monster's papers are hung.... His dam Ebony was breed with 3 different males on the same heat when she got pregnant with Monster and his littermates....and when the pups where born they used Gotti's ped......Just to educate you a little.....


Should I even ask how you know this? Do you have any proof or is it just common knowledge in the bully circles? You'll find that several people on this board already feel that most of the gottiline and razors edge dogs are crossbred with hung papers to begin with. Assuming what you are saying is true, why aren't others disputing the pedigrees? If you want to educate someone with this info try the UKC, I'm sure they would love to hear what you have to say.


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## ashbash91

drsven said:


> Should I even ask how you know this? Do you have any proof or is it just common knowledge in the bully circles? You'll find that several people on this board already feel that most of the gottiline and razors edge dogs are crossbred with hung papers to begin with. Assuming what you are saying is true, why aren't others disputing the pedigrees? If you want to educate someone with this info try the UKC, I'm sure they would love to hear what you have to say.


There was just a huge post on the bully forums! and i asked shouldn't they do something about this.... and they said "what do you want them to do rewrite history".....


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## drsven

ashbash91 said:


> There was just a huge post on the bully forums! and i asked shouldn't they do something about this.... and they said "what do you want them to do rewrite history".....


can you pm me a link to that board?


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## ashbash91

it's still getting talked about on the greyline msn board just go there and look for the title: IS W.S. MONSTER GREYLINE OR GOTTILINE??????


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## drsven

*Notorious Juan Gotti's sister from the same litter*

I had never seen any of NJG's littermates and then I found this:

http://ablepaws.org/sheboz.html

Notorious Juan Gotti's sister


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## Hicka (Hiccup)

Excuse me but what is hung papers??
I am from sweden and bad english


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## Indigo Bully Connection

that's very interesting drseven! I've never seen any of his littermates either...she's a sweet lookin dog... but she looks very small compared to Juan! that's also a new picture of Juan that i haven't seen before.

Hung papers are fake ones. Back Yard Breeders will get papers for a litter of puppies where either the mother or the father aren't the true parents of the litter so they make it up. This is why alot of people are worried about the Razors Edge,Gotti and Ghangis Khon lines. Alot of people think they have mixed other breeds to their dogs to make them bigger and gave them papers of an APBT.


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## drsven

NEELA said:


> that's very interesting drseven! I've never seen any of his littermates either...she's a sweet lookin dog... but she looks very small compared to Juan! that's also a new picture of Juan that i haven't seen before.


here's a more recent picture of him @ 9 years old. In this picture he really doesn't look that overdone.


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## sw_df27

dang 9 yrs old he hasn't aged that much!!!! He's still beautiful!!!


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## Indigo Bully Connection

wow that's a great picture... that's also a new one... where did you find that one? he does look great for being 9 years old!!!


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## drsven

NEELA said:


> wow that's a great picture... that's also a new one... where did you find that one? he does look great for being 9 years old!!!


I can't remember the name of the site I found it on, it was from a link on the Greyline message board. As soon as I saw it I saved it to my desktop.


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## Ottis Driftwood

http://groups.msn.com/Greyline/_homepage.msnw?&pps=k
You can find all the info you want here lots of nice people here!


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## Figgy1682

wait a minute, ok correct me if im wrong ( please do ). i always thought juan gotti was a brindel and white male that was like 100lbs solid, i see you guys are posting pictures of this blue dog and now im confused as hell.


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## drsven

Figgy1682 said:


> wait a minute, ok correct me if im wrong ( please do ). i always thought juan gotti was a brindel and white male that was like 100lbs solid, i see you guys are posting pictures of this blue dog and now im confused as hell.


The pictures posted are of Richard Barajas' Notorious Juan Gotty. He's UKC registered as a blue/white male. He is the foundation male of the Gottiline. I'm not sure of his actual peak weight but my guess would be around 90LBS.


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## sw_df27

I'm gonna say over 90lbs my female weighs 85 and he's looks twice as big as her.............


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## SouthKakBully

He weighs around a 100 lbs.


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## PITBULL LOVER

ok the last pic of him looks great for 9yrs old but the earlier pics of him he looks to short and badly over weight to a pure a pitbull he dosnt meet all of the standards correct me if wrong ?


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## drsven

PITBULL LOVER said:


> ok the last pic of him looks great for 9yrs old but the earlier pics of him he looks to short and badly over weight to a pure a pitbull he dosnt meet all of the standards correct me if wrong ?


It's hard to say, he may have just been overfed in those pictures.Maybe some photoshop work was done to make him look so damn big. Here is a picture of a young Juan Gotty. In this picture he looks to be in better shape and not so monster(ish). I would bet in real life he looks closer to this image.


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## Figgy1682

you see what im talking about drsven posted pics of juan and he's brindle and white also at this kennels they show the same pictures as there sire to there dogs.

http://www.bluehonorkennels.com/males.html


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## drsven

Figgy1682 said:


> you see what im talking about drsven posted pics of juan and he's brindle and white also at this kennels they show the same pictures as there sire to there dogs.
> 
> http://www.bluehonorkennels.com/males.html


The two pictures I posted are of the same dog, compare the markings. I think some of the pictures taken and posted online are at angles that make him look a lot bigger and wider than he actually is. To me, he looks blue and white in both pictures, I'm not seeing the brindle.


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## Figgy1682

damn i got to check the settings on my cpu cause im seeing $*!t


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## sw_df27

he's definately blue and white........


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## pitbull_lover08

he is on my female's papers! :love2: Such a great looking dog!


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## ashbash91

yea he is a nice boy! he produces his ass off! You gotta respect him!:thumbsup:


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## glinepits

Unfortunately Gotti Died January 2008 At 11 Years Of Age And The Reason Why Gotti Was Still Being Bred Or You Saw Young Pups Being Sired By Gotti Is Because Richard Had Frozen Straws Tucked Away So Those Who Acquired Gotti For Stud Got Frozen Straws.


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## BedlamBully

Hung papers=Fake papers

Sway is 3x Grandaughter of Gotti and Lugz is 2x Grandson so I dunno if he is still alive or not but I would guess Yes.

I read that on Monsters papers, he does look like he could be Gotti's though, and he MAY still be so there's no proof wether his papers are hung or not since no DNA test were done. Kinda crappy of them to do that though.

ON a side note PATCH is that a new pup?


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## cane76

no,his papers are definetly hung,in his ancestory,it isnt something anyone tryed to hide really....


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## MADBood

Yeah, Juan Gotty's sire Raider II, has two different sires in different peds from what I've seen...who is the real sire, Chain Gang Barney or Commacho??? And the whole Monster G line seems shady as well. How the hell do you get a 100 lb dog from breeding AmStaffs w/ APBTs? That is what they claim the American Bully is a cross of. The more bully breeders I see claiming their dogs are the "real pitbulls" the more pissed I get. I got duked into buying a "bullystyle" pitbull myself...so I know from experience that none of these dogs (Greyline, New School R.E., Gotty, Monster G) are APBTs. I own both and I love both but they're definately different breeds. Oh BTW, Gotty was highly overrated. I'm surprised he lived that long. Most of these overdone showhogs live shortened lives.


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## Sampsons Dad

HE LOOKS COW HOCKED!
WHY IS THAT DESIRABLE?
All the dogs sired by him look bowed in the front 
and are incredibly over fed.
Why is this some thing to promote?
I have seen really good looking bullies but these look like genetic kaka!
Why can't I see the good looking dog you guys see?


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## Sadie

Sampsons Dad said:


> HE LOOKS COW HOCKED!
> WHY IS THAT DESIRABLE?
> All the dogs sired by him look bowed in the front
> and are incredibly over fed.
> Why is this some thing to promote?
> I have seen really good looking bullies but these look like genetic kaka!
> Why can't I see the good looking dog you guys see?


Sampson If you want to see some good looking bullys check this site out IMO these are some great looking bullies that I would be proud to own if I were looking for a bully dog. Laylia is my favorite

http://www.atlkingpits.com/


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## cane76

Sampsons Dad said:


> Why can't I see the good looking dog you guys see?


Im not buying into that hype,i dont see any good looking dogs from this line,and even if i have seen ones that "looked" good i still wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole.....


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## TheBoss

Im pretty sure NJG died in janurary am I not correct?


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## cane76

yes hes dead,may the bully gods and goddess's of over breeding and trends forever bless his soul,and may he look over all your bullys as well and bestow the same riches to you,that he had bestowed and still bestows to this day[through frozen bully jiz,and mutant offspring] upon his owner...


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## MADBood

:rofl: yeah what cain said


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## Carriana

TheBoss said:


> Im pretty sure NJG died in janurary am I not correct?


Yes, he did. This was an old thread that got dug up...


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## TheBoss

One thing I would like to say about this dog though is he did get more action then anyone on this forum. I can gurantee that!


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## Carriana

TheBoss said:


> One thing I would like to say about this dog though is he did get more action then anyone on this forum. I can gurantee that!


I wouldn't say that overbreeding is something to be proud of.


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## kidderkennels

Gotti was bad ass...awsome dog...RIP...and ATLKINGPITS.COM has some bad ass dogs..I tottally agree


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## cane76

why was he "*bad ass"*?


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## Marty

I plead the fifth LOL I ain't getting in it I like it here


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## Sadie

I feel ya Marty I am already an infraction waiting to happen and I am a MOD lmfao! I'll let Mr. Keith take this one


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## Carriana

I want to know why this old post got dug up yet again? It's going to keep on getting dug up until it starts something and gets locked. LOL.


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## Sadie

Because this New Member kidderkennels is reading through and posting under a lot of old Bully threads


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## Carriana

I see said the blind man...


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## Marty

Yeah to some that don't understand... he was the greatest dog to ever live LOL


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## Sadie

Marty said:


> Yeah to some that don't understand... he was the greatest dog to ever live LOL


I would say Juan Gotti was the most over bred dog to ever live that's for sure. They bred that dog with a million dogs. And I think his sperm lives on I am sure someone has it frozen somewhere.


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## sw_df27

nods head.............


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## ForPits&Giggles

What's with the hype around NJG? Why is he such a famous dog? I dont get it, I dont see any Champion title or anything, and his big ass deff wasnt WPing. Someone please explain this too me. I really do want to know. Cause everytime someone around me mentions that dog I ask what made him so great, and they cant give me an answer... I MUST KNOW!! I THRIVE ON DOG KNOWLEDGE!!


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## GnarlyBlue

He's "ghetto fabulus".. he's what all the thugs thought the perfect dog looked like, big and intimidating. I think his existance is kinda irrelevant to my dogs, though it should be said that NJG and RE are for whatever reason very popular ambullies.


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## ForPits&Giggles

Well, RE dogs(some) atleast have a CH. some even GR.CH., but Gotti I just dont get...


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## Sadie

ForPits&Giggles said:


> What's with the hype around NJG? Why is he such a famous dog? I dont get it, I dont see any Champion title or anything, and his big ass deff wasnt WPing. Someone please explain this too me. I really do want to know. Cause everytime someone around me mentions that dog I ask what made him so great, and they cant give me an answer... I MUST KNOW!! I THRIVE ON DOG KNOWLEDGE!!


IMO nothing makes him special he is just the king of all leash ornaments to bully breeders and bully fanciers. I guess to most ambully breeder's bigger is better and badder and to those people Juan Gotti represented that ultimate big bad package so he was over capialized based on that image bully breeder's desire so much. Juan Gotti was bred for looks and nothing more. To some people he looks bad ass.


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## ForPits&Giggles

SadieBlues said:


> IMO nothing makes him special he is just the king of all leash ornaments to bully breeders and bully fanciers. I guess to most ambully breeder's bigger is better and badder and to those people Juan Gotti represented that ultimate big bad package so he was over capialized based on that image bully breeder's desire so much. Juan Gotti was bred for looks not for function. To some people he looks bad ass.


I see, probably the dumbest shit Ive ever heard, but whatever. Thanks Sadie!!


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## Sadie

ForPits&Giggles said:


> I see, probably the dumbest shit Ive ever heard, but whatever. Thanks Sadie!!


It is dumb but sadly the american bully started off on the wrong foot. Putting looks before function is always a set up for failure. Also the original RE foundation dogs were actually great functional dogs unfortunatey bully breeder's took that line to hell along with the rest of them. But I would say the gotti line was never anything more than breeding for extreme massive dogs and as a result the line was never any good at least not IMO. Now I have seen some dogs with gotti crossed back to apbt game lines that has been able to clean up some of these extreme traits that have been bred into these gotti dogs. But you don't see them very often. And bully breeder's have a lot of work to do to clean up these lines to bring them closer to function vs just breeding for outright extremeness.


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## ForPits&Giggles

Yeah, I knew the original RE dogs were pretty nice, my boy has "Throwing Knuckles" in his 7th gen. I know TK was an AST, but still one great looking dog IMO.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

*NOTORIOUS JUAN GOTTI*

yes NJG is dead i don't know what he died of but 10-11 yrs old is avg for an apbt. re is admittedly an amstaff/apbt/? cross. but i've been doing research on NJG and i can find nowhere where such crosses could have occurred. you can trace his pedigree and see the likeness generation to generation. i have heard the monster rumors about his papers i have found no definite evidence of such to date if anyone has proof please present it. although anything from 21 blackjack's litter on down is an amstaff/apbt/? cross. but NJC is strictly amstaff/apbt.


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se

not that your far off.. but lifespan for apbt is 10-13yrs......and ambullies tend to live shorter lives due to health probs....


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## buzhunter

Always assume the papers are hung. It's more common than you think.


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## eliezer

from what i got from clubbully if you do a search for him is that he was not overdone but it was the beginning of the huge heads and wide chest movement. from the pics i saw of him as a young dog he didnt look too bad, now as for his owner he had a bad reputation of just keeping his studs kenneled all day/night and only brought them out to breed so they got out of shape and overweight. i personally would not buy an overdone bully but if i had to buy one it would have been gotti, this of course is just from a few pics of him as a young dog. i could be wrong as i never seen him in real life and i didnt like what he became with age.


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## smith family kennels

lets just say this is my comment on this dog:flush:


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