# What do you see when viewing this pedigree?



## alpha-dog (Apr 20, 2013)

So haveing not been in this scene for long when I look at my boys pedigree all I notice are the titles won by each dog. My question is what do you veterans see when looking at his pedigree? Anyone stick out? And what bloodlines would you say are predominantly being used?

This should be fun :cheers:


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

He looks pretty scatter bred and the only titles I see are wayyy back in the 6th-7th gens. You can of course change that by doing things with your boy. Is he ADBA only? If he was UKC he could show. ADBA he can weight pull, but he's not likely to place in shows as he isn't ADBA standard. WP can be done in many venues and you also have things like Obedience that you could title him in.


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## alpha-dog (Apr 20, 2013)

American_Pit13 said:


> He looks pretty scatter bred and the only titles I see are wayyy back in the 6th-7th gens. You can of comurse change that by doing things with your boy. Is he ADBA only? If he was UKC he could show. ADBA he can weight pull, but he's not likely to place in shows as he isn't ADBA standard. WP can be done in many venues and you also have things like Obedience that you could title him in.


thank you very much American_Pitt13. I appreciate that you not only took the time to look over his pedigree, were positive in your remarks, but we're even nice enough to point me in the right direction.While he is not UKC registered I do plan on registering him through the ABKC this week. Might be breeding him to my female depending on how she turns out, like the classic bully look a lot! 
But weight pulling does sound like a lot of fun. I'll be sure to look more into it, but wilk come down to how often I'd be able to copete with him.


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## Ohana (Sep 12, 2011)

I think we share some ancestors waaaay back. 

American_Pit13 is right, very scatterbred. You have some bully lines and some UKC apbt lines in there, I'm not familiar with anything up front, though. Further back you have Gaff, York, Nevada and Larum (which are sister kennels and use much of the same blood and breed together frequently) You also have Shaw (Warren Shaw is actually one of my dog show friends, he still showws in UKC) 

If you wanted to show you could potentially title him in the standard class in ABKC since he isn't UKC registered. Watch the UKC though as I heard it has been confirmed they will be opening the stud books back up meaning AKC and hopefully ADBA will be allowed to register their APBTs/ASTs with the UKC.


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## Ohana (Sep 12, 2011)

Don't forget to health test if you're going to breed him, I personally title my breeding dogs also. A minimum for me personally is OFA cardiac and OFA hips. You do not want to pass on a congenital heart disease or breed a dog who has dysplastic hips.


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## alpha-dog (Apr 20, 2013)

Ohana said:


> I think we share some ancestors waaaay back.
> 
> American_Pit13 is right, very scatterbred. You have some bully lines and some UKC apbt lines in there, I'm not familiar with anything up front, though. Further back you have Gaff, York, Nevada and Larum (which are sister kennels and use much of the same blood and breed together frequently) You also have Shaw (Warren Shaw is actually one of my dog show friends, he still showws in UKC)
> 
> ...


Related huh? Too cool!
Thank you very much for the information you were able to give regarding his blood lines. I really had no idea what I was looking at. I feel I have a little better idea of where to start now as well to keep digging.
As far as ABKC goes, I have only been to one show, and Dutch was as much an outsider there as he would be an adba show. Haha. Not bully enough. But is there perhaps any word on when the UKC will open the stud books back up? That would be a GREAT opportunity for Dutch!

I will certainly planning on getting health test before breeding him, but after watching pedigrees expose documentary last night on YouTube that I was pointed to by a thread by MSK that made me super paranoid and want to get all the OFA certifications while at the vet.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

What would be the point in breeding him? He's scatterbred which is basically a mutt. The only point I could see is if he is winning shows and competitions which I hope he does before you breed him.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

rabbit said:


> What would be the point in breeding him? He's scatterbred which is basically a mutt. The only point I could see is if he is winning shows and competitions which I hope he does before you breed him.


Where do you get that scatter bred = a mutt? While I agree I see no reason to breed the dog as to much of that goes on all ready, scatter bred is just not using the same bloodlines, it in no way = a mutt...


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

American_Pit13 said:


> Where do you get that scatter bred = a mutt? While I agree I see no reason to breed the dog as to much of that goes on all ready, scatter bred is just not using the same bloodlines, it in no way = a mutt...


Hmm maybe I'm wrong. I'm not to keen on all this purebred dog stuff (yet). But if the dog had bloodlines consisting with dogs we would refer to as being of different breeds wouldn't that make him a mutt. So for instance if a dog had bloodlines from an AST and then some from known APBT that would make him a mix because they are two different breeds of dogs? Wait maybe my definition of scatter bred is just incorrect...


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

I also shouldn't have used the term mutt but mix instead because the dog is not one of unknown lineage we can see where he comes from


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Scatter bred firstly doesn't mean that they dog is Amstaff and APBT. Scatter bred means that you are using multiple bloodlines and not just 2 or so constantly. As for Amstaff/APBT that is personal opinion on whether it is a mutt since the Amstaff and the APBT have the same blood. The Amstaff was bred in a show direction and over time resulted in a different look, but other breeds were not mixed in. Most UKC dogs have Amstaff in their peds. AKC doesn't recognize the APBT name so they called their dogs Amstaff, but it wasn't a change in breeds, just name. Gamebred people consider most UKC dogs Amstaffs anyways since they are show bred, but in turn that would make most ADBA show dogs the same thing. However that all goes into a much bigger debate and personal opinion on what make a dog an APBT.

Gamebred dogs can be scatter bred as well. A RBJ/Jeep/Bordeaux/OFRN/Bolio dog would be scatter bred, but it doesn't make it a mutt or even a mix.


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

American_Pit13 said:


> Scatter bred firstly doesn't mean that they dog is Amstaff and APBT. Scatter bred means that you are using multiple bloodlines and not just 2 or so constantly. As for Amstaff/APBT that is personal opinion on whether it is a mutt since the Amstaff and the APBT have the same blood. The Amstaff was bred in a show direction and over time resulted in a different look, but other breeds were not mixed in. Most UKC dogs have Amstaff in their peds. AKC doesn't recognize the APBT name so they called their dogs Amstaff, but it wasn't a change in breeds, just name. Gamebred people consider most UKC dogs Amstaffs anyways since they are show bred, but in turn that would make most ADBA show dogs the same thing. However that all goes into a much bigger debate and personal opinion on what make a dog an APBT.
> 
> Gamebred dogs can be scatter bred as well. A RBJ/Jeep/Bordeaux/OFRN/Bolio dog would be scatter bred, but it doesn't make it a mutt or even a mix.


Thanx for clearing the definition of scatter bred up for me. I definitely wasn't saying that scatter bred meant APBT + AST mix. I was trying to use that as an example. "if the dog had bloodlines consisting with dogs we would refer to as being of different breeds wouldn't that make him a mutt" (not mutt but a mix). To know the breed of a dog you look at bloodlines I've heard people say that a dog was "half bully" and that he was scatter bred which for some reason sounded like they were referring to the dog as a mix but I understand now that although mixed dogs can be scatter bred as well as full bred dogs it just refers to inconsistent lines in a dog. I know it's opinion but at the moment my research has led me to conclude that purpose defines a breed or else what is the point? But I'm still a newb and I've just recently started researching different bloodlines and whatnot.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

i got to agree with am pit, she's right a dog with that many different bloodines in one dog is considered 'scatterbred', 

but, i kind of like rabbits' veiw, because anyone just throwing some dogs together without respect for the bloodlines, let alone the breed, they are probly gonna be a backyard breeder. so stay away from those dogs as well.

because if you want to get an apbt, you should look for the best represenitive of the breed. and its not gonna be a scatterbred hound.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I have to dissagree, Some of the best rep of the breed could be considerd scatter bred.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

rudy, i hate to call you out, but what percentage are you talking about, 1 out of 10, 1 out of 100, 1 out of 1000, yes there are exseptions to every rule.

but i would rather not place 15-20yrs of breeding on the exceptions, 

but rather on the rule.

yes, a scatterbred dog at times would make a good combat dog. 

the way you usually found out is some green horn come on the scene with a good one that came from a byb.

i'm not drifting to far from my blood to get scatterbred dogs anyway.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

The convo would really end upbto what one would consider scateer bred. Many people now run lines off of this dog or that. In most instances the dog consists of a number of crosses. I guess would depend on the the dog and its ped. But the term scater bred could be it own thread to say the least...


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Jeep was scatterbred himself not outcrosssed... <<< >>>> to a family or legacy breeder. Many dogs that look outcrossed can all have one common ancestor in the 6 gen that pull them all together, and thus are actually alighning other sub strains under one catalyst. Now there are tight lines from Jeep and so on, but the original was a scattershot in many cases NOT an outcross.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

fire, its funny you say 'jeep'

bob finley of finley's bo is a friend of mine, 
i had seen him at different spots thru out the years, never met, thenm 
at the adba nationals we started talking and my jaw dropped to the ground when i found out who he was.

but he remembered me, so that made me feel good.

thats when we sat and talked about bo/vindacator

and to this day he swears bo was rubbed


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