# UKC new list of faults- an end to "bully style"



## Bippity (Nov 12, 2008)

I'm not sure if anyone noticed that a revised standard for the APBT was adopted by the UKC on Nov 1, 2008. They basically just added a new list of faults. It seems they're to actively get away from the "bully style" pitbulls.

General Appearnce-
_Very Serious Fault_: Any disproportionate overdone characteristic (such as short legs, excessive bone or massive head or body) that would interfere with working ability.

Head-
_Very Serious Fault_: Overly large, heavy heads.

Muzzle:
_Very Serious Fault_: Muzzle too short, which impairs breathing capability.

Neck-
_Very Serious Fault:_ A short, thick neck that would interfere with functional ability.

Forequarters-
_Very Serious Fault_: Legs shorter than half the total height at the withers.

Body-
_Very Serious Fault_: Overly massive body style that impedes working ability.

Height and Weight-
_Very Serious Fault_: Excessively large or overly massive dogs.

I think that they should have finally put in a definitive height and weight standard. However....hurray! 

For more on the new standard go to the UKC website.

What does everyone else think?


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## BlueBull (Dec 6, 2006)

Thats how they want "seem".
But this isnt something taht will impact the dogs that are registered. this only goes against show dogs. most bully style dogs are not show dogs so it wont even matter.

unfortunately.


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

Yeah this is old news, They will still take the money from RE/Gotti/Remi ect line dogs. AND dogs sometimes win by default in the ring. Say there are only three dogs in the class...it garuntee's everyone a ribbon and at least some points.

So, its a good effort but it won't stop anything.


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## ARK_Kennel (Jun 5, 2008)

BlueBull said:


> Thats how they want "seem".
> But this isnt something taht will impact the dogs that are registered. this only goes against show dogs. most bully style dogs are not show dogs so it wont even matter.
> 
> unfortunately.


Yep.:snow:


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## blondie03044 (Aug 14, 2007)

yeah thats nfair that bullys cant compete in show...


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

blondie03044 said:


> yeah thats nfair that bullys cant compete in show...


Its completely fair. the American Bully Kennel Club has their own registry now and shows, bully's can compete there


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

this stuff is nice an all, but i've seen bullies that look awsome and i would pick them in a show, maybe not to best rep. the breed in what it was designed for, but in over all apperance, they look really nice and solid. 
howeva, i'm with all yall on the overly done really short really wide, that's just wrong. think of what those poor animals will have to go thru as they age, and pray they get a good owner who will pay for the vet bills when their health goes down hill b/c of the breeding. (but once again, something else our beloved breed has to deal with) i dont think any amout of saying this or that by the UKC , AKC, ADBA or any other will stop ppl from doing this to these poor thangs.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I wouldn't call this the end of bullies at all. The fact is that the serious faults are somewhat vague, vague enough to allow subtle bullies through. Even still, if a dog has faults it doesn't mean it can't be registered and then duel registered with the ABKC, which is what I plan to do. I'd much rather show my dog as what he is anyway.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

i agree with red, like i said earlier, they have some really nice bullies, (alot ive seen on here) but yall's bullies look awsome, if i would get a bullie i would want it to have the conformation alot of yalls have, but these overly short and wide...nope...sorry can't hang with those...
i think there should be limits as to what a person can show, it should be with any breed, otherwise you'll get every tom, dick and harry in the show ring, but i think if your bullie is well balanced and looks solid then it should be ok to show. 
besides they shouldn't hate cuz your dog is prettier than theirs!!! *laughs* sorry, j/k guys!


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## bluefamily (Aug 8, 2007)

I too am happy the show rules at least specified about all the "overdonesness". We have bully dogs but within breed standard. I like to keep them working. It keeps them tired and humble.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

i like both american pitbull terriers and american bullies but i think its a bit much when people do not even know their american bully is an american bully then call an american pitbull terrier a mut because they arent huge or something. i think these standards will set people like that straight. i usually tell people if they think my pit is a mutt to look up ukc standards any way and maybe they will find out their dog is not what they think it is.. if you have an american bully and are aware that and an american pitbull terrier are two different things fine not a problem with me but i don't like when people get off calling real american pitbull terriers mutts and i am very thankful for UKC breed standards! 


mostly though i think people should just research the breed they buy before getting one this goes with EVERY breed. ignorance is not an excuse no person should be buying a breed of dog without ample research on the breed! that is one of the things that ticks me off the most i'd have to say its definately torwards the top of my list on things that p me off! ok i should stop or else i will rant on and on so let me stop before i get carried away!:roll:


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

chic4pits said:


> this stuff is nice an all, but i've seen bullies that look awsome and i would pick them in a show, maybe not to best rep. the breed in what it was designed for, but in over all apperance, they look really nice and solid.





chic4pits said:


> iif i would get a bullie i would want it to have the conformation alot of yalls have
> [...]
> i think there should be limits as to what a person can show, it should be with any breed, otherwise you'll get every tom, dick and harry in the show ring, but i think if your bullie is well balanced and looks solid then it should be ok to show.


Conformation showing is judging how well a dog fits the breed standard, not how good it looks. These changes are to discourage overdone dogs from being placed, not from being shown. But if they do not fit the standard for an American Pit Bull Terrier, they should win a conformation title for it.

Look at Throwin' Knuckles, Sadey's Paddington, Inna Rage, etc. All recieved Ch or Gr Ch Conformation titles as American Pit Bull Terriers. If those were ABKC titles, I'd have no problem, it's just another breed. But they are being titled as being conformationally correct APBTs, which they are not. And that then leads to Bullies being sold, registered as APBTs, and advertised as having "Champion bloodlines."

Bullies can show in UKC as much as they want, for all I care. It's being placed when they don't fit the standard


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## dan'sgrizz (Oct 22, 2008)

what is considered overly sized? I don't think they should put a weight limit what's wrong with a big apbt?


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## ForPits&Giggles (Oct 21, 2008)

dan'sgrizz said:


> what is considered overly sized? I don't think they should put a weight limit what's wrong with a big apbt?


I dont think its a set weight as much as it is an average of what most dogs of that standard are, in this case the APBT. Aslong as the dog looks proportional then there shouldnt be a problem. Or atleast thats the way I understand it, if Im wrong, someone please correct me.


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

ForPits&Giggles said:


> I dont think its a set weight as much as it is an average of what most dogs of that standard are, in this case the APBT. Aslong as the dog looks proportional then there shouldnt be a problem. Or atleast thats the way I understand it, if Im wrong, someone please correct me.


You're correct, and even the ADBA and AADR do not have set weights in their standards. The dog should be proportional, nothing over done or exaggerated (sp?) (i.e. big head, wide chest, muscle bound, etc.)


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## 619Bulls23 (Nov 2, 2008)

thats good. im tired of these massive inbreed pitts they look retarted and out of poportion


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

gameover23 said:


> thats good. im tired of these massive inbreed pitts they look retarted and out of poportion


Inbreeding can be used to filter out bad traits while reinforcing the good within a bloodline.

Also, if you want to use the word retarded, you should know how to spell it right. Also, it's Pit Bull. Only one 'T'.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

The recommended weight range has always been on the UKC standard, at least as far back as I've been reading it. That is not new. And personally, I think over/under that weight range should be a fault. Screaming "proportionate" is fine, but how many people *truly* understand what proportion means? I had someone say once that in male dogs, for every inch they are tall, they should carry 3.5-4 pounds. That would mean that an 18-inch-tall male would weigh 63-72 pounds. That's not proportionate, it's massive and obese. My girls are a height/weight ratio of about 2.5 and Priest is about 2.8. Fit and healthy.


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## Mr. Bleezy (Apr 4, 2008)

The ukc needs to recognize the American Bully as a breed. I think it would help.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

I disagree,the ukc needs to distance itself from the type,and only register established "breeds" not "types",To much variation in the american bully too be a officially recognized breed,jmo!


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## Kat&Kumho (Sep 10, 2008)

my question is whats the point? I mean so many "pits" already have papers..why try and change it now? Plus what happens to all the "pit" puppies that will no longer meet "pit" standards?Do they just become mutts? If the parents are papered already will the pups also get papers?Even if they dont meet the new rules?


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## Mr. Bleezy (Apr 4, 2008)

cane76 said:


> I disagree,the ukc needs to distance itself from the type,and only register established "breeds" not "types",To much variation in the american bully too be a officially recognized breed,jmo!


i see what you are saying, but still i think a pit needs to be even more specific. if it can't fight it shouldn't be recognized as a worker whether it can pull or look good or whatever. the big or bully style dogs shouldn't even be seen as a working dog but more a large breed non sporting allowing more variation. who even cares about the pocket bullys. they just need to be recognized as a designer breed by the general public. lol jmo


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

bahamutt99 said:


> but how many people *truly* understand what proportion means?


The judges _should_...but that doesn't necessarily mean that they do.



cane76 said:


> I disagree,the ukc needs to distance itself from the type,and only register established "breeds" not "types",To much variation in the american bully too be a officially recognized breed,jmo!


Ditto. Good post.



Kat&Kumho said:


> my question is whats the point? I mean so many "pits" already have papers..why try and change it now? Plus what happens to all the "pit" puppies that will no longer meet "pit" standards?Do they just become mutts? If the parents are papered already will the pups also get papers?Even if they dont meet the new rules?


Again, this does not affect registration. Only adds some clarity to parts of the standard to encourage athletic APBTs place, not overdone dogs. And this will hopefully change what is placed and championed in the UKC.


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## Taz (May 3, 2008)

you know I maybe barking up the wrong tree here. HA HA! but where are the standards for the bullies then and how do I get a paper for an ambull. I mean is the breed to get picked on now to draw attention away from others that had a negative view on in the past. Are ambulls scape goats, the new guy to discredit because of looks once again. Why can't I just have my puppy and love him too.

Edit: let's not let this thread get negative either..lets just have FUN!!!


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Okay, I'm confused on what you're asking. Nobody cares if you have your pup and love him, too. But if he's not bred to the standard of the APBT -- if he's instead bred for size, head, thickness -- then feel free to call him an AmBully. That's where people start to get upset, when we're talking about dogs who are not bred to the APBT *standard*, but who still carry the APBT *name*. That's not fair to those who dilligently strive to hone their dogs and produce better and better APBTs.

As to your question about the standard, you can see a copy of it at the American Bully Kennel Club website. American Bully Kennel Club - 2008 They will register dogs based on UKC, AKC or ADBA papers. AmBullies are no scapegoats. They are simply dogs being bred to a different standard, and they should be called by the breed name that most reflects their purpose.


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

Taz said:


> Are ambulls scape goats, the new guy to discredit because of looks once again.


A scape goat for who? And in what way are they being used?


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## Taz (May 3, 2008)

> Okay, I'm confused on what you're asking. Nobody cares if you have your pup and love him, too.


????????????????? Dont be shy now..and personally we have mutal feelings.



> They are simply dogs being bred to a different standard, and they should be called by the breed name that most reflects their purpose.


Never said they weren't. Once it was pointed out I did accept it.



> A scape goat for who? And in what way are they being used?


Hey lets not forget about the past; just remember what it was like to be on the side of the fence that you had to defend. Thats where bully owners are now. I can't speak for all bully owners, but I am sorry my dog is papered. I wish I knew how to change it, because it would have been done months ago


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

Taz said:


> Hey lets not forget about the past; just remember what it was like to be on the side of the fence that you had to defend. Thats where bully owners are now. I can't speak for all bully owners, but I am sorry my dog is papered. I wish I knew how to change it, because it would have been done months ago


You mean the side of the fence where everyone and their mother thinks that a Pit Bull is an 80 lb Jowly Mastiff-type dog with cropped ears?

These additions to the standard is just to help the seperation of Bullies from Pit Bulls. People shouldn't get mad if their dogs don't fit the standard. I don't.


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## Taz (May 3, 2008)

lol.......I mean the side of the fence to fight for dogs rights


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## Taz (May 3, 2008)

lol.......


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

Taz said:


> lol.......I mean the side of the fence to fight for dogs rights


I guess I'm still confused on what you are asking. This doesn't take away any dog's rights. Hell, this doesn't even take away any dog's registration.


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## Taz (May 3, 2008)

Pipbull said:


> I guess I'm still confused on what you are asking. This doesn't take away any dog's rights. Hell, this doesn't even take away any dog's registration.


Exactly!:cheers:


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Taz said:


> ????????????????? Dont be shy now..and personally we have mutal feelings.


I'm hardly shy. Your post just didn't make any sense to me.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

It Isnt about size or ear crop,its about function and purity of blood and proportion in my opinion,plenty of large game dogs have exsisted in the past,yet they were pure as can be,pincher,alligator,dummy,dibo etc,all great pit dogs and all rather lagre,of course none were blue however...
here is a 100 pound proportioned apbt during the early 80's
















purity and working ability should determine a pure bred registered apbt,not size.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Yeah, there's a huge difference between Buster Brown and most of today's oversized dogs. He was probably a fluke that happened out a line of slightly-larger APBTs. And then there are those who are specifically bred to be bigger, and usually come with all sorts of exaggerations.


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## LoveMyBullies (Nov 11, 2008)

To be honest there will probably never be a complete end to the bullies. My dog has been called a bully type; I feel that as long as the body proportions are correct and the structure is also then they should be allowed to show. Nothing can ever be good in excess, that is when you start to have major problems with say hips not being able to support the weight that they should.


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## ashbash91 (Aug 22, 2007)

i didnt read everthin but i think it is good dat they r doin this... mayb ppl will stop callin ambullies pit bulls! i still believe da ukc should recon. da Ambullies wit a standard so den dey can get rid off da bullies w/ faults so mayb ppl will stop breedin dem if dey cant get dem reg....


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

ashbash91 said:


> I didn't read everything, but I think it is good that they are doing this. Maybe people will stop calling AmBullies Pit Bulls! I still believe that the UKC should recognize the AmBullies with a standard. Then they can get rid of the bullies with faults so that maybe people will stop breeding them if they can't get them registered....


A legitimate registry cannot recognize a breed with no consistent type, like the American Bully.


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## ashbash91 (Aug 22, 2007)

one should b made... get rid of those "pocket pits" n "XXL's" for example i think i have the ideal ambullies... mine can work hours on end unlike those big fat sloppy bullies... i run my dogs up 2 3miles a day wen i can... they r big but very active!


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

ashbash91 said:


> one should b made... get rid of those "pocket pits" n "XXL's" for example i think i have the ideal ambullies... mine can work hours on end unlike those big fat sloppy bullies... i run my dogs up 2 3miles a day wen i can... they r big but very active!


Then you need a national parent club to work towards getting yourselves registered. I'm not sure if the ABKC counts as a parent club, though, since they seem like just a registry themselves. And the parent club would work on getting some sort of consistency in the breed.


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## Taz (May 3, 2008)

Taz said:


> Exactly!:cheers:


Not quite excatly either..I guess what I would love to see are some standards implemented into the system soon, for bullies. I know that shades is makes no difference to me. However, in any event you can't take my pups heritage just like noone can take whoever's from them. This is the best that I can explain.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

ashbash91 said:


> one should b made... get rid of those "pocket pits" n "XXL's" for example i think i have the ideal ambullies...


I don't understand this statement.....
I mean, Hitler didn't like a breed and had the same way of thinking. Calling them what they are not is wrong but getting rid of all of them because you don't like them is messed up.


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## Bully Mama (Nov 4, 2008)

I love the bully style dogs, that is what Levi came out of Gotti/RE. But even a bully lover like me can see that this overdone look is getting way out of hand. It is creating medical issues within the breed. I wish we could make people understand everything within reason. And for those APBT people out there. I also wish they would keep the APBT look seperate from the bully style dogs. I like them both but they aren't the same breed!


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

reddoggy said:


> I don't understand this statement.....
> I mean, Hitler didn't like a breed and had the same way of thinking. Calling them what they are not is wrong but getting rid of all of them because you don't like them is messed up.


i don't think he ment "kill them off" i think he ment don't call them Bullies cuz now a dayz EVERYTHING is a bully... pocket pits xxl clean bullies there is 2 much different "types" of Ambullies...u c wat im sayin??? but the bully world is full of b.s. rite now we will neva b able 2 have a "standard" i really wish we could because i have a yard FULL of gottiline and R.E. dogs... but it wont ever happen that is y i said "we need to get rid of these...." cuz if we dont den we can never have a standard....


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## Pipbull (Nov 9, 2008)

reddoggy said:


> I mean, Hitler didn't like a breed and had the same way of thinking. Calling them what they are not is wrong but getting rid of all of them because you don't like them is messed up.


:rofl: Man, you're thinking dark today, huh? I definitely didn't interpret him saying "get rid of" as genocide to make the Arian Bully.

Oh crap.....I think I just started a new breed.....:hammer:


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## ashbash91 (Aug 22, 2007)

Pipbull said:


> :rofl: Man, you're thinking dark today, huh? I definitely didn't interpret him saying "get rid of" as genocide to make the Arian Bully.
> 
> Oh crap.....I think I just started a new breed.....:hammer:


lmao! yea he totally took dat da wrong way lol


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## RacyPit (Nov 19, 2008)

In my opinion Bully type dogs been around since the beginning.

But the misformed animals seen these days can not and should not be called American Pitbull Terriers.

It's a whole new breed, just like the English Bulldog was messed up years ago now it's the Pitbull's turn.


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## LoveMyBullies (Nov 11, 2008)

Any time that you breed for an excessive trait the animal is usually the one who suffers. I bred my "Blue Deamon" girl to a RE male. I picked this male because he is not an excessive pit....meaning he is proportioned well. Not overly heavy bone, not a XXL type. He is just a very nice build. I would NEVER breed anything that had an excessive trait. Also I fell in love with his personallity, he reminded me of the one my dad had when I was younger. So was this a bad move?? He is from the Dozer/Daisy RE line.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Msmith1 said:


> i didn't mean "kill them off" i ment don't call them Bullies cuz now a dayz EVERYTHING is a bully... pocket pits xxl clean bullies there is 2 much different "types" of Ambullies...u c wat im sayin??? but the bully world is full of b.s. rite now we will neva b able 2 have a "standard" i really wish we could because i have a yard FULL of gottiline and R.E. dogs... but it wont ever happen that is y i said "we need to get rid of these...." cuz if we dont den we can never have a standard....


Okay man, I gotcha. I almost agree too. When you start setting different standards in one breed it becomes really confusing. A lesson can be learned from the American Bulldog, being that they had a standard and then there was the Scott and Johnson collaboration, but then they parted ways and then came up with something different and then each style had to be inducted into the kennels clubs...... yeah, it gets riddiculous


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

WHOA ashbash is back!!??!!! sorry off subject but i was just taken aback.

any way back on subject most people consider american bullies the same breed as an american pitbull terrier but just different styles do you think if people see the ukc breed standards they will actually realize apbts and american bullies are actually different or do you think they will think american bullies are the outcome of poor breeding (no offense at all to american bully people i actually think some bullies are cute if bred correctly) or do you think they will still be ignorant and call american bullies pure bred american pitbull terreirs. should an american bully become its own recognized breed?


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

sorry i worded my words wrong lol I ment "he ment" lol... I was type drunk lol:roll:


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

There are DEFINATLY those dogs who are Bully lines that still closely resemble the APBT. The new UKC standard is not designed to weed out bully LINES but bully STYLE dogs. So now the dogs competiting will have to be closer to the actual standard than before. Not all bully LINE dogs are bully Style

THis is my Greyline/Gaff girl 2years old and 30lbs Chain weight. She is bully lines but is definatly NOT bully style









So its just up the judge now to pick a more correct dog. I think eventually the UKC will recognize the American Bully once it has a SET standard since there are so many types of Bully's. Its definatly a work in progress but the ABKC does recognize the AmBully as its own breed and in different types.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Thats a sexy bitch BedlamBully


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## JCsmoke (Dec 12, 2008)

my uncle breeds re/gotti pits hes happy and has em in shows I'm not a fan of em but he loves his dogs all the same every1 has there own tastes I guess


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