# Sticky  Um, QUESTIONS!!! - Please help. - knuckling over



## ZildjiansMommy

Okay, our neighbor got this puppy, then had to move so we told him we had had a home for him. My aunt. (where I moved to in Baton Rouge, LA.) Anywho.. my uncle recently passed and she was scared to stay in the house alone so she was lookin' for a pup to grow up around her and the kids so it was like ment to be.

but, recently since I've been letting him in and out he looks VERY bow-legged. He isn't hurting or anything. but, it looks almost broken-ish. I didn't know if its normal or should I be worried and take it to the vet. figured i'd ask y'all before i get too worked up.

Lemme know what y'all think. Please & Thank you!!

AND ALSOOO !! My mom wormed him 2 weeks ago & he is still pooping worms. not alot but there are still a few coming out in his stool. his stool is solid though.


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## k8nkane

That's what's called "knuckling over". Google it so you can get an idea of what it is and take him to the vet. You're going to need to nip this in the bud before it gets any worse and formulate a plan of action with your vet.

Also, worm him again. One de-worming dose is not likely to get rid of all the worms, especially if they've had a chance to, um, percolate? in him? lol.


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## k8nkane

Oh, forgot something else.

What are you feeding him?


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## ames

k8nkane said:


> Oh, forgot something else.
> 
> What are you feeding him?


if you are feeding him too much protein this can happen, as kane said. You need to get this corrected while you still have time. Good catch noticing earlier is best! If you search on knuckling on here or look in the health and nutrition section you will see some good advice.


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## ZildjiansMommy

Okay, well the puppy has his shots. We just recently noticed it started. 
The vet will tell us what we need to do?


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## ZildjiansMommy

Thanks so much, y'all !


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## ames

I am sure, but there are some things you can do yourself until you get there. Just start researching it. here is a sample of what I mean from the Health and Nutrition section discussing food possibly effecting the issue.

http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/36074-can-knuckling-cause-lameness-limping.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/35683-help-my-dog-knuckling-over.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/33862-front-legs.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/27122-leg-problems-my-puppy.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/21319-what-causes-bully-pup-have-these.html


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## k8nkane

Let me re-phrase this ...

Because I'm a paranoid owner, I would take Kane to the vet, get my vet's advice on what I should do, and keep the vet up to date on what is going on with the knuckling, as if you don't get the knuckling in check it can progress to the point of surgery.

BUT.

If you switch your puppy to a lower protein food, that will help correct it. It slows down the growth to give your pup's legs a chance to balance out.


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## KMdogs

ames said:


> if you are feeding him too much protein this can happen, as kane said. You need to get this corrected while you still have time. Good catch noticing earlier is best! If you search on knuckling on here or look in the health and nutrition section you will see some good advice.


Protein alone has nothing to do with it. Now if you pair up protein and genetic concerns that is what can cause things like this to happen. I have fed high protein diets to any dog owned from pup to senior not once having an issue. (most at least 36%) Not all dogs can handle high protein (unless you are working your dog heavily or being worked not really much of a point to begin with) but i wouldn't just blame the protein levels.


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## ames

KMdogs said:


> Protein alone has nothing to do with it. Now if you pair up protein and genetic concerns that is what can cause things like this to happen. I have fed high protein diets to any dog owned from pup to senior not once having an issue. (most at least 36%) Not all dogs can handle high protein (unless you are working your dog heavily or being worked not really much of a point to begin with) but i wouldn't just blame the protein levels.


that's why I said it CAN happen  totally a possibility it COULD be the amount protein right? Also why I included the links. Almost all discuss the protein, but I know that you like high protein and had no issues. Some pups do though...


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## KMdogs

ames said:


> that's why I said it CAN happen  totally a possibility it COULD be the amount protein right? Also why I included the links. Almost all discuss the protein, but I know that you like high protein and had no issues. Some pups do though...


Wasnt really arguing just making it clear that protein alone isn't a issue and other things contribute.


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## ames

KMdogs said:


> Wasnt really arguing just making it clear that protein alone isn't a issue and other things contribute.


oh me either! Thanks for clarifying though...


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## Sadie

Ask Lauren she helped a guy and his dog who was knuckling over worse than this get his dogs front end back to normal. When this happens it's almost always dietary or genetic. It can be fixed though through proper diet keeping the dog off hard surfaces ... you will also most likely have to wrap the feet with vet wrap and splints. Lauren will tell you about the diet. I think she recommends a raw diet for this one. I will send her a PM now so she can post on this thread.


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## Mach0

Dang Sadie- ya beat me to the move lol.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Pup is definitely knuckling, which is often the result of lack of Vitamin D (sunshine etc) and usually a crappy quality food. A friend of mine on a bully forum had a pup knuckling way worse than this pup and this is what I recommended:
*1 cup of Taste of the wild Salmon*








*here are all the additives to his meal.....cod liver oil, apple cider vinegar, and yogurt!*








*After pouring the kibble into his feed bowl I add 1 "tea spoon" of cod liver oil....if you look at the dosage instructions on the label one pump equals 1 tea spoon so thats what I add. I then mix it around untill all the kibbles in his bowl are shiny with oil.*









*I then add 1 tea spoon of yogurt*

*







*








*Before i mix all the yogurt in I add the 1 tea spoon of apple cider vinegar directly on top of the dollip of yogurt.*








*Now I mix it and Vui'lla' ( or ta-daa! for us americans) the dinner is served!*








*He likes it!*









Google Carpal Laxity and there is a ton of info. I'll post before and after pics of my friend's dog. It is amazing.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Mach0 said:


> Dang Sadie- ya beat me to the move lol.


I moved it  I am Queen Thread Mover hence the OCD part in my title... Sadie dubbed me that lol


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## k8nkane

Why does that regimen work, Laura?


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## pitbullmamanatl

Your pup looks like he is at a level 1 (maybe 2) of knuckling, which can be corrected with wrapping (it may or may not be that extreme yet) and change of diet (most cases take about 9-10 weeks before a dog can fully support its own weight again). Poor quality diet or too much of a good food, poor footing/slick floors with no rugs, and missing trace minerals are all things that contribute to this problem. The earlier you treat the problem the better chance of correcting it. I have seen a 9 week old pup corrected in about 8 or 9 days because it was caught early. You need balance between calcium, phosphorus, vitamin d and the age - don't experiment.
Too much vitamin D causes issues as well as too little vitamin d so the key is BALANCE. 
Holistic low protein dog food is what I have read works the best in correcting issues like this.

 

VET
 PUT HIM ON A LOW PROTEIN DOG FOOD (23-25%)
Sunlight
Cod liver oil
DO *NOT *FEED EGGS!
RAW EGGS Contain an enzyme called avidin, which decreases the absorption of biotin (a B vitamin). This can lead to skin and hair coat problems.
EGG SHELLS Provide our dogs with much needed calcium. Eggshells consist of calcium carbonate (94%), magnesium carbonate (1%), calcium phosphate (1%), and organic matter (4%).


Knuckling over is caused by the following:​ 1) a combination of two different types or brands of dog foods - feeding (50/50) 
2) the brand or type of food has been changed several times (3-4) times 
3) the addition of poor quality vitamins/minerals to a diet (not from whole foods)
4) human foods in amounts enough to disrupt the calcium/phosphorus balance 
5) too many calories vs the amount of free exercise they get on a daily bases
6) feeding a pet food that has minerals that are not very available to the body - crude forms
7) diets lacking vital microminerals or trace minerals
8) feeding too much of a good food
9) any or all of the above.​


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## Blue_Nose_Bella

KMdogs said:


> Protein alone has nothing to do with it. Now if you pair up protein and genetic concerns that is what can cause things like this to happen. *I have fed high protein diets to any dog owned from pup to senior not once having an issue. (most at least 36%) Not all dogs can handle high protein (unless you are working your dog heavily or being worked not really much of a point to begin with) *but i wouldn't just blame the protein levels.


This is where I get confused?? I have also fed my past two dogs a high protein diet with no issues up until I got Bella who was fed TOTW prairie as a puppy started by the breeder and she started knuckling. So now she has been on BB lamb and brown rice for the past 5 months. I am soon making the switch to Acana next month because she will be a year old. So here is my question.....you aren't supposed to "work" a puppy hard and you hear all this controversy of high protein diets and issues. My girl isn't going to be hog hunting or anything to that affect but we are by no means couch potatoe's so I feel better having her on a higher protein grain free diet. In your opinion KM why is the high protein diets only beneficial to "working dogs" persay? The Acana I am putting her on is the grasslands at 32% protein. I think it should be based on your dogs activity level not just work alone. I live in the city and hike, jog, walk, etc. Bella is my companion in all of that so her activity is high. I am just picking your brain KM  I like to hear your opinions is all


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## pitbullmamanatl

Before pics: 
























1.5 weeks later:









































3 weeks later:

















6 weeks later:


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## pitbullmamanatl

k8nkane said:


> Why does that regimen work, Laura?


My name is in my signature  Check the pictures I just posted below.


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## Mach0

pitbullmamanatl said:


> I moved it  I am Queen Thread Mover hence the OCD part in my title... Sadie dubbed me that lol


Ohhh ididnt know you were even online lol till I looked. Good catch stranger lol.


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## ames

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Before pics:


WOW the change is amazing!! OUCHHHH poor pup! So glad its better now!!!


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## pitbullmamanatl

ames said:


> WOW the change is amazing!! OUCHHHH poor pup! So glad its better now!!!


Yeah he is a gorgeous boy!


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## k8nkane

Ack, sorry. Typo, LOL. :hammer:

What I meant was, what does the cod liver oil and the yoghurt do to affect the knuckling? Just supplies the appropriate vitamins?


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## pitbullmamanatl

Mach0 said:


> Ohhh ididnt know you were even online lol till I looked. Good catch stranger lol.


I know I know I havent text you back yet! I lubs you though!


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## Mach0

Good job Lauren ---- big difference.


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## Lua

Wow I learned something today, I didn't even know knuckling existed. I've never seen it nor have a read about it in any book! :roll:


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## ZildjiansMommy

Anyone know how to wrap a dog's leg/wrist properly? apparently my aunt doesn't have the money for a vet atm and I'd hate for it to get worse.


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## pitbullmamanatl

ZildjiansMommy said:


> Anyone know how to wrap a dog's let properly? apparently my aunt doesn't have the money for a vet atm and I'd hate for it to get worse.


You don't need to wrap that dog's legs. It isn't that severe.


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## ZildjiansMommy

& he'll be 2 months tomorrow.


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## pitbullmamanatl

This is a dog with severe knuckling that required wrapping
Dog prior to diet change and wrapping/splinting: 








About two weeks later:








At age 2:


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## pitbullmamanatl

Start with the diet change as the knuckling was probably caused by poor quality food or lack of Vitamin D. Take the pup outside and let it exercise. Carpal Laxity Syndrome is a more general term, used for both hyperextension and hyperflexion deformity. Malnutrition or over-nutrition of rapidly growing large breed puppies causes weakness and irregular tension between extensor and flexor muscle groups, which leads to laxity of the carpal joint. Exercise and commercially available balanced diets without any other treatment is usually enough to achieve physical and functional recovery


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## ZildjiansMommy

Thank you so much, pitbullmamanatl. I'm so thankful to have awesome people here to help. Should I get the same Salmon food you posted or is there a certain one due to his age I should get? I'm in Baton Rouge, LA. so I could probably find it at a petco maybe. 

ugh, weight off my shoulders. love y'all for it !!!


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## pitbullmamanatl

ZildjiansMommy said:


> Thank you so much, pitbullmamanatl. I'm so thankful to have awesome people here to help. Should I get the same Salmon food you posted or is there a certain one due to his age I should get? I'm in Baton Rouge, LA. so I could probably find it at a petco maybe.
> 
> ugh, weight off my shoulders. love y'all for it !!!


Same stuff will be fine. If she doesn't start seeing changes though then she will need to take it to the vet. Keep us updated please.


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## ZildjiansMommy

It isn't even my dog, Its my aunts and I'm overly concerned. will do! Going to go get the food probably tomorrow.  Thanks again y'all. and thanks whom ever moved this to the right forum section! lol.


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## ZildjiansMommy

Okay, so. Mom took him to the vet. X-ray'd and he's at stage 1.( idk what that means, but he said its good we noticed it now.) They said they didn't need to be wrapped but, the diet advice was correct and to only feed him 1cup a day. half in the morning half in the afternoon & so he suggested ( Natural Balance® L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets® Sweet Potato & Fish ) and I also added the apple cider vinegar, ogranic yogurt and fish oil we found in a pump at petco. fed him once when we got home (half cup) cause mom fed him this morning. so i guess now we wait?


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## pitbullmamanatl

ZildjiansMommy said:


> Okay, so. Mom took him to the vet. X-ray'd and he's at stage 1.( idk what that means, but he said its good we noticed it now.) They said they didn't need to be wrapped but, the diet advice was correct and to only feed him 1cup a day. half in the morning half in the afternoon & so he suggested ( Natural Balance® L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets® Sweet Potato & Fish ) and I also added the apple cider vinegar, ogranic yogurt and fish oil we found in a pump at petco. fed him once when we got home (half cup) cause mom fed him this morning. so i guess now we wait?


Natural Balance is not a good food, in my opinion. Very few vets (Bully Doc is an exception ) know anything about nutrition. The best foods are:
 * Orijen
* ZiWi Peak
* Taste of the Wild
* Evo
* Blue Buffalo Wilderness


Yes, now you play the waiting game. It could take 3-9 weeks to fix itself. Keep us updated.


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## ames

Glad that you caught it early and I am sure it will work out great!! 

did they say anything about the worms? did he get another treatment?


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## ZildjiansMommy

yeah, we got more wormer. but we have to wait a couple days cause of the day we gave him the last wormer or something. mom wrote it all down. 

Should I have gotten a different food? :|
hope I didn't mess up!


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## ZildjiansMommy

We put him on our lil dogs tiny chain so I could get a photo.


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## performanceknls

Listen to what Lauren is telling you I have dealt with this many times with rescues and my own dogs. I have found that blue buffalo adult (I think it is the chicken) has about 22% and is the lowest. Siren had it happen to her and it also happened to one of her puppies. It is not a big deal with you address it with a diet change. Low protein diet and a good quality food.


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## ames

such a cutie, hope you see the changes in a week or 2 like they say!!


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## Blue_Nose_Bella

How can a puppy suffer from knuckling at 8 weeks old like that?? That blows my mind! You figure most pups are weaned from there mothers milk by 5 to 6 weeks? So for the two or so weeks they eat kibble this happens? Or is it some kind of mystery as to what really causes it? Bella had it but I noticed it at 6 or 7 months old and was told by some on here to put her on blue buffalo lamb and brown rice adult at 22% protein so I did.


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## ZildjiansMommy

My mom had gotten him from a neighbor for my aunt, cause he had to move. Idk anything about where he was or what he ate, moms going to call them and let them know whats going on with this little boy incase there are other puppies going threw this if he knows where the litter mates are.


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## performanceknls

Genetics can make them knuckle when they are young. Siren had two pups that knuckled over and they had good food and genetics make them knuckle over. They are perfectly fine now.


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## Sadie

performanceknls said:


> Genetics can make them knuckle when they are young. Siren had two pups that knuckled over and they had good food and genetics make them knuckle over. They are perfectly fine now.


:goodpost:

I also didn't know until I read up more on it that crating a dog too often and not allowing a pup to get regular amounts of exercise can also cause it. Sad stuff...


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## pitbullmamanatl

performanceknls said:


> Genetics can make them knuckle when they are young. Siren had two pups that knuckled over and they had good food and genetics make them knuckle over. They are perfectly fine now.


Agreed. Genetics are a huge factor in a lot of things such as knuckling, weak pasterns, toeing in/out, bowing in/out etc.


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## performanceknls

siren was my first experience with knuckling and I went crazy with it! Once I learned how to fix it it is not a big deal. Diet changes and it clear up pretty quick. What is going on is the ligaments are growing faster than the bones. If the ligament is not tight the leg bows like jello it has no support. Once the bones start to grow and catch up it gets tight again and no long term problems should occur.


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## ZildjiansMommy

*Update on Lefty.*

He isn't shaky / weak-ish anymore while walkin' but, physically I don't seem much of an improvement. We are still going to continue this diet till the bag is gone or told otherwise when he gets his checkup in a week i think.

Sorry, it isn't the best photo. but, I took it this morning when I let him out.
Better ones later maybe.


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## pitbullmamanatl

It isn't going to happen overnight. It'll take a few weeks; however, be sure you stick to the diet. Did you get the TOTW?


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## pitbullmamanatl

I'm going to merge this thread with your original thread


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## performanceknls

Yes it takes several weeks so be patient and Don't worry it will correct it's self if you stick with the diet. It took Siren about 8 weeks before she got almost 100% better. It will be interesting to see if her next litter will have some pups that will knuckle over.


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## BlueBabies

I never knew anything about this. I have never seen it before but I'm worried about my 2 girls now they are on high protein diets.:/ I guess ill just keep a close watch on them


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## ZildjiansMommy

Oh I know. I think my aunt is over-whelmed with him. She said she might re-home him... Its killin' me. He doesn't need to be passed around like a rag-doll.


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## pitbullmamanatl

BlueBabies said:


> I never knew anything about this. I have never seen it before but I'm worried about my 2 girls now they are on high protein diets.:/ I guess ill just keep a close watch on them


There are a number of reasons a pup can knuckle and I listed them in previous posts in this thread. I have been researching this whole high protein diet and skeletal issues thing for a few months and I have changed my beliefs that high protein causes a pup to knuckle. A high protein diet (30% on a dry matter basis) does not increase the frequency or severity of skeletal abnormalities in dogs. Overfeeding a high protein diet during the growth stages can cause issues though. The excess weight during the period of rapid growth, rather than the protein content of the diet, is probably the factor which alters skeletal development. Contrary to the belief of many breeders and owners, high protein intake does not affect the final height and body weight of dogs, although dogs fed a low protein diet (14.6% of dry matter) tend to have lower body weights at 13 to15 weeks of age than dogs fed a normal diet, reflecting the marginal nature of their diet.


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## ZildjiansMommy

*UPDATE ! (9 days in) *










Haha, he moved, sorry. Hes a lil jumpy bean!


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## performanceknls

pitbullmamanatl said:


> There are a number of reasons a pup can knuckle and I listed them in previous posts in this thread. I have been researching this whole high protein diet and skeletal issues thing for a few months and I have changed my beliefs that high protein causes a pup to knuckle. A high protein diet (30% on a dry matter basis) does not increase the frequency or severity of skeletal abnormalities in dogs. Overfeeding a high protein diet during the growth stages can cause issues though. The excess weight during the period of rapid growth, rather than the protein content of the diet, is probably the factor which alters skeletal development. Contrary to the belief of many breeders and owners, high protein intake does not affect the final height and body weight of dogs, although dogs fed a low protein diet (14.6% of dry matter) tend to have lower body weights at 13 to15 weeks of age than dogs fed a normal diet, reflecting the marginal nature of their diet.


I can agree with this but I do not consider 30% high protein, I would consider 35% or more high. Some of the newer grain free foods are really high at over 40% IMO that is just too much. What info do you have I would be interested in educating myself more than I know about knuckling. I would like to know where to look for more info. thanks 



ZildjiansMommy said:


> *UPDATE ! (9 days in) *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, he moved, sorry. Hes a lil jumpy bean!


He looks so good! what a cute I hope she keeps him.


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## ZildjiansMommy

Me too! If not, I'm going to try and con my boyfriend into letting me take him.


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## ames

what a cutie! glad he is looking better and better. I hope she keeps him too


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## ZildjiansMommy

As of 7.24.2011


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## pitbullmamanatl

ZildjiansMommy said:


> As of 7.24.2011


Hard to tell from that 1 pic but he seems to be looking better!


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## ZildjiansMommy

I'm shrinkin' some atm so I can show y'all.


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## ZildjiansMommy




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## pitbullmamanatl

Definitely looks like he is making progress! He still has a ways to go but you're doing an excellent job with him!


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## performanceknls

Big improvement! He is looking great keep it up.


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## Brandys_BabyJayda

wow I never knew this could happen....such a beautiful pup, glad its only temporary and fixable.


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## ZildjiansMommy

Thanks guys n gals!

The boyfriend says " Let them know that we're now moving up on the food better nutrition.. we're now feeding him kittens." LOL. He's silly. He's also said " I hope they don't get mad, I'm only kidding!" Haha.


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## ames

he is looking better and better! YAY!!!


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## ZildjiansMommy




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## performanceknls

I LOVE that picture!


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## ZildjiansMommy

Jeff & I decided to keep lefty, My aunt says hes too much to handle. so.  I'm happy, but I'll get better photos of him tomorrow. Hes turning red-ish. I'll try and get a photo of the color tomorrow. and update ya on the legs. Vet said hes "healed" but we're going to continue the yogurt and such on the same food we've been feeding him.


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## pitbullmamanatl

ZildjiansMommy said:


>


Wayyyyyyyyyy cuteeeeeeeeee!


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## ZildjiansMommy

Okay, the last two days Lefty REFUSES to eat yogurt on food now. :| If we just do the fish oil he's fine with it. but yogurt or vinegar he wont eat it, I wasted food and tried it like 4 different ways... he only will eat it with the fish oil... WHY? and doesn't he need the rest to still help his legs? idk what to do.


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## Mach0

Great shot- must be using a nice camera lol. Good to see he's doing better !


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## pitbullmamanatl

So I wanted to share pictures of the pup I posted earlier in this thread that had the knuckling. He looks amazing today. Here he is at 9 months old


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## ames

pitbullmamanatl said:


> So I wanted to share pictures of the pup I posted earlier in this thread that had the knuckling. He looks amazing today. Here he is at 9 months old


WOW Looks amazing Lauren! Great job. Good looking boy!


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## jesspal

Sorry to bring this thread up from the dead.

I just noticed my dog knuckling over. She was on 37% protein diet, obviously to high for her. I did change to lower 21% food.

How long after changing food will I see an effect, if it does work?

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## pitbullmamanatl

jesspal said:


> Sorry to bring this thread up from the dead.
> 
> I just noticed my dog knuckling over. She was on 37% protein diet, obviously to high for her. I did change to lower 21% food.
> 
> How long after changing food will I see an effect, if it does work?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


It depends on the severity, what food you switched to etc. Sometimes a week sometimes a few weeks.


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## jesspal

Went from Wellness Core to Natural Balance. I wanted something decent with low protein, I went with natures balance because it was lower than most.

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## jesspal

pitbullmamanatl said:


> It depends on the severity, what food you switched to etc. Sometimes a week sometimes a few weeks.


You also reccomend fish oil and organic yogurt. Exercise restrictions as well?

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## jesspal

Sorry I read much more thoroughly now, I only bought a small bag of natures balance. I will look for a better alternative, I looked at the food chart and it was high on the list at the time 2007 doh!

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## pitbullmamanatl

Follow this regimen:
http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/38296-um-questions-please-help.html#post457740

Take the pup outside and let it exercise. Carpal Laxity Syndrome is a more general term, used for both hyperextension and hyperflexion deformity. Malnutrition or over-nutrition of rapidly growing large breed puppies causes weakness and irregular tension between extensor and flexor muscle groups, which leads to laxity of the carpal joint. Exercise and commercially available balanced diets without any other treatment is usually enough to achieve physical and functional recovery


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## jesspal

Thanks, I get so desperate to fix the problem that the dog probably doesn't even seem bothered with.

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## jenn262

Hi, we just got our first pitbull this past Friday night. I was wondering what measurement of food do we give her and how many times a day? She is 8 weeks old.


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## rglass

Made a new thread


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## DynamicDuo

*Question*

I know the last post was a long time ago but my nine week old babies are both knuckling over and this is my first experience with this problem. We have followed our vets orders and are keeping the puppies on soft surfaces (grass and carpet only when out of their crate) and have switched their food to adult food. My question is this: We switched their food from ProPlan Focus Puppy to ProPlan Focus adult, but after further research, it appears that may not be the best option. I want to switch them to the Blue Buffalo I saw recommended but know that switching their food multiple times (this would be the 2nd switch/3rd food - the people we got them from were feeding them absolute crap) can cause knuckling over so I don't know if it's better to switch or not at this point. Thoughts?


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## EckoMac

Ciaramama said:


> I know the last post was a long time ago but my nine week old babies are both knuckling over and this is my first experience with this problem. We have followed our vets orders and are keeping the puppies on soft surfaces (grass and carpet only when out of their crate) and have switched their food to adult food. My question is this: We switched their food from ProPlan Focus Puppy to ProPlan Focus adult, but after further research, it appears that may not be the best option. I want to switch them to the Blue Buffalo I saw recommended but know that switching their food multiple times (this would be the 2nd switch/3rd food - the people we got them from were feeding them absolute crap) can cause knuckling over so I don't know if it's better to switch or not at this point. Thoughts?


"Follow this regimen:
http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutr...tml#post457740"

If you make the transition from one food to another slowly over time, then it shouldn't be an issue for the pups digestion. You can also add a little canned pumpkin (not pie filling) to their food to help keep things firm.


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## DynamicDuo

EckoMac said:


> "Follow this regimen:
> http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutr...tml#post457740"
> 
> If you make the transition from one food to another slowly over time, then it shouldn't be an issue for the pups digestion. You can also add a little canned pumpkin (not pie filling) to their food to help keep things firm.


Thanks, I'll stop for the stuff on my way home from work and get started tomorrow. I did see the regiment looking through the posts, I just wasn't sure if it was wise to change their food again. That's what I was asking so thanks for the tips!


----------



## DynamicDuo

*Update*



EckoMac said:


> "Follow this regimen:
> http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutr...tml#post457740"
> 
> If you make the transition from one food to another slowly over time, then it shouldn't be an issue for the pups digestion. You can also add a little canned pumpkin (not pie filling) to their food to help keep things firm.


Ok so this regiment is AMAZING! I now have two beautiful pups with perfectly straight legs after only a few days on this mix. It took me a while to get the cod liver oil. I had to order it since everyone around here only carries salmon oil but it was WELL worth it. Thank you so much for all your help! I am so happy with how the babies are growing! They also love this food, more so than any other food we have had them on and we had zero problems with the switch. We are going to keep the pups and move our older girl to the ToTW since they all love it so much. I do have 2 questions though....how long should we keep using the regiment? and how long should we keep them on the carpet/grass and off the hardwood? We don't want to regress but it will be more fun being able to have them in the living room and kitchen again with us. Obviously not a lot but for a little while each day.

Thank you again for all your help!


----------



## cingle34

I recently rescued this puppy because they were going to put her down. I think she has a severe case of knuckling over. Can this be corrected with just proper food?


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## EckoMac

cingle34 said:


> I recently rescued this puppy because they were going to put her down. I think she has a severe case of knuckling over. Can this be corrected with just proper food?


If you read though this thread it gives a step by step on how to correct with a diet change.


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## cingle34

EckoMac said:


> If you read though this thread it gives a step by step on how to correct with a diet change.


Yes, I have been reading the thread and it gives so much information. But the pics I've seen on here don't look to be as bad as hers. So I'm just curious if anyone has seen or dealt with one this bad.

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## EckoMac

The diet change and supplements that pitbullmamanatl posted works for any level of knuckling. Basically a lower protein dog food with a few supplements and low impact exercise on soft surfaces. There have been a few posts over the years that were extreme knuckling and a few with just slight knuckling. All came out normal when addressed at a young age. Most of us just copy the link to this post for anyone asking about knuckling. 
Post pics if you can.


----------



## cingle34

I bought her Rachel Rays Just 6 lamb and brown rice dog food. It's 20% protien and 13% fat. I cant find cod liver oil in liquid form at any store by me. I can only find it in the liquid gel pill form. Can I use that and just break it open and mix it with the food? 

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## cingle34

And I will post pics on the progress on her.

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## jttar

cingle34 said:


> I bought her Rachel Rays Just 6 lamb and brown rice dog food. It's 20% protien and 13% fat. I cant find cod liver oil in liquid form at any store by me. I can only find it in the liquid gel pill form. Can I use that and just break it open and mix it with the food?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


You can use the gel pill but any Walgreen's, CVS or the local pharmacy should have a bottle of Cod Liver Oil. You can use a small nail to puncture the gel capsule and squirt it on the food but as EckoMac will agree, watch you don't squirt yourself in the face, especially the eye.

Joe


----------



## DynamicDuo

cingle34 - trust me, USE THESE INSTRUCTIONS! Both of my babies, Nala and Kaos knuckled pretty bad. Kaos looked like a cowboy with terribly bowed legs and Nala was just as bad. I will post some pics when I can in a little bit. Anyway, Kaos is now 6 mos and has PERFECTLY straight, long legs - he is going to be my tall handsome boy. Nala's legs straightened out but unfortunately has Eastie/Westie feet and nothing I can do about that. Either way I am speaking from personal, recent experience and it works!


----------



## DynamicDuo

If the knuckling is bad


----------



## DynamicDuo

*Before and After Pics*

These pics aren't the best but they are the best I can find that show their legs.

Nala Before (standing)



Nala After - this is a terrible picture because she was about to move but you can see that her legs straightened out and you can really see her Eastie/Westie feet in this pic. It's not quite as bad as this pic shows since she was about to move but it's definitely clear.



These next pics are a little better.

Kaos before


You can see his one leg in this pic. His legs knuckled really bad.



Kaos after. Nice and perfectly straight!


Like I said, not the best pics to see their legs but I can't find any that really show how bad they were. I take a ton more videos than I do pics unfortunately for things like this.


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## cingle34

I'm following the instructions exactly as they say. But as you can tell in this pic she is really bad. It's so sad to me.

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## cingle34

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## EckoMac

You can def puncture the pills and squirt them on food. 
And don't squirt yourself in the eye, or get it on your clothes. You'll smell like fish for days. I speak from experience. :-/
Just stick to the regiment and there will be a slow change back to normal.


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## cingle34

Ok I have had her on this regiment for 3 days now. Of course no change with her leg yet...lol But man her coat is so soft and shiney! Lol Also is 24 lbs. pretty normal for 16 weeks old?

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## DynamicDuo

It takes a few days. My Kaos' legs looked just like yours when we started. It took a few days but it does work, keep at it. And remember to try to restrict movement to soft surfaces like carpet and grass, avoid hardwood, tile ect as much as possible, and try to keep the impacts low, so no jumping down off things and things like that. Going up is fine but try to limit the impact on the front legs as much as possible. As much experience as my husband and I have with dogs, we had never experienced or knew anything about knuckling until this forum and it fixed it. Keep at it! 

Weight sounds good. That's pretty close to what mine weighed at that age.


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## DynamicDuo

Oh and the oil is AMAZING for their coats. We still give it a few times a week to keep them soft and shiny. BUT, we did find that the pups did smell kinda fishy for a while when they were on the steady regiment, hence why we only do it a few times a week now!


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## cingle34

The hardest part is keeping her from jumping. She is extremely hyper now that she is used to me. Also unfortunately my entire house is tile and hardwood floors. So I have her in a 4ft ×4ft pen in the corner of my livingroom, with carpet. But when I take her outside she runs and jumps around. I'm really hoping she shows some improvement by the time I take her back to the vet in three weeks.

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## DynamicDuo

I know *exactly* what you're going through. My vet recommended as much grass as possible. I'm not sure where you are located but I'm in PA and I know that would be difficult now with winter here. We were fortunate that we had them as babies who knuckled in the summer and we have a fenced yard so they spent a lot of time outside. We have all hardwood floors as well except one spare bedroom which became the puppy pen. You should absolutely see a difference within three weeks. My pups were perfectly straight by then. Hang in there, I know how worried you are and how hard it is.


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## cingle34

Thank you....and I'm in FL so she spends alot of time outside to.

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## cingle34

Today is only day of her being on this regiment. Although her leg looks the same. (As expected) I have noticed that she is walking more on her paw then on her wrist. 

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## JennyB

Took her to the vet today said she was knuckling over ..but said she would grow out of it..did some research on it reading something about a special diet..any info would much appreciated. .


----------



## EckoMac

JennyB said:


> Took her to the vet today said she was knuckling over ..but said she would grow out of it..did some research on it reading something about a special diet..any info would much appreciated. .


Read this entire thread. It has the steps needed to correct the issue.


----------



## DynamicDuo

JennyB said:


> Took her to the vet today said she was knuckling over ..but said she would grow out of it..did some research on it reading something about a special diet..any info would much appreciated. .


What Ecko said. The diet is listed within the thread. My male pup, Kaos, looked much like your girl did when he was that young and now he has PERFECT, straight legs. He looks amazing now and we followed the diet exactly. You also need to keep the pup from pounding on her front legs as much as possible. Keep her on carpet or grass (my vet advised grass is the best possible but I know it's cold here with no grass so carpet is the next best thing depending on where you live), try to keep her from jumping down or going down steps (up is ok because it's not stressing the front legs), and follow the diet. Combining these precautions straightened out both my pups legs in maybe two weeks. We kept them on it for a month and then supplemented their food with the oil/yogurt/vinegar mix a few days a week after that for another month. They did smell a little "fishy" but their coats were super soft and shiney. Good luck!

~Jess


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## JennyB

Changed her diet..front legs looking slightly better ..going to coutinue this diet suggested.. this thread was very helpful..thank you ..


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## DynamicDuo

She looks a ton better. Keep up the good work. She's absolutely gorgeous by the way!!

~Jess


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## JennyB

Thank you ..she is my first baby..her name is Karma and she us 10 weeks old..


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## jttar

Good to see she is improving. Karma is a Kutie!

Joe


----------



## v_r_

By googling my 8-week-old pup's condition, I came upon this forum and discovered that he's knuckling over. I switched his food to Nutro 22% protein. My question is how many cups a day am I supposed to feed him? I think I read somewhere here just 1 cup, but that doesn't sound like enough to me.


----------



## JennyB

Im feeding my girl 1 cup 3 times day.


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## v_r_

Ok, thanks! I started giving him 1.5 cups a day instead.


----------



## Citizen.spark

Does anyone have the recipe for the diet and supplements to correct this, that is actually written here but similar to how a recipe looks? My head is buzzing with 8 pages of posts and I just want to help our puppy. He's more bowed than knuckling over but I'm willing to put in the work, just need an easier way if looking at it. Thank you guys so much!


----------



## jttar

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Pup is definitely knuckling, which is often the result of lack of Vitamin D (sunshine etc) and usually a crappy quality food. A friend of mine on a bully forum had a pup knuckling way worse than this pup and this is what I recommended:
> *1 cup of Taste of the wild Salmon*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *here are all the additives to his meal.....cod liver oil, apple cider vinegar, and yogurt!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *After pouring the kibble into his feed bowl I add 1 "tea spoon" of cod liver oil....if you look at the dosage instructions on the label one pump equals 1 tea spoon so thats what I add. I then mix it around untill all the kibbles in his bowl are shiny with oil.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I then add 1 tea spoon of yogurt*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Before i mix all the yogurt in I add the 1 tea spoon of apple cider vinegar directly on top of the dollip of yogurt.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now I mix it and Vui'lla' ( or ta-daa! for us americans) the dinner is served!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *He likes it!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Carpal Laxity and there is a ton of info. I'll post before and after pics of my friend's dog. It is amazing.


Seems this post from page one is pretty clear and known to work.

Joe


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## DynamicDuo

Like Joe said it’s a pretty basic recipe in the first page post and I can personally attest to its success. If you want it more in recipe format here:

1 cup Taste of The Wild Pacific Stream
1 tsp Cod Liver Oil
1 tsp Plain Yogurt
1 tsp Apple Cider Vinegar

Mix the oil in the ToTW and stir until kibble is coated

Add yogurt and ACV and stir until mixed

I fed my two this mixture twice a day and continued for about 3-4 weeks after the knuckling seemed to resolve. I found it successful after only a few weeks. Good luck


----------



## Citizen.spark

Thanks everyone, I just got home from the store and picked up everything you guys have listed. I had to get the capsules of the cod liver oil though, which I have read worked fine, just break them open.

Thanks again for your help & patience.


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## DynamicDuo

If you’re changing foods, I would suggest changing the food over a couple days to prevent stomach upset. Mix the two foods together and throw in some canned pumpkin (not pumpkin pie filling but real pumpkin) to keep the chance of diarrhea down. Once you have the food switched it shouldn’t be a problem. You can add the other stuff as you mix the foods as none of that should cause any problems but I wouldn’t just switch the food entirely at one shot.


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## Citizen.spark

I'm trying not to get discouraged. We've only had our puppy on this diet since January 7th. It just seems that his knuckling isn't getting better yet. I know it takes time, but I feel horrible that "I did this to him."

Also, I don't know what to do about the floors in my home. They are hardwood and vinyl throughout. Unfortunately I don't have the funds to purchase multiple rugs for him. Any suggestions, guys? 

I feel like an awful puppy parent.


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## Indie

they have boots for dogs, so maybe find some with grippy bottoms, and see if he can get more traction with those. Have patience on the food.. it takes a while for the proper balance of nutrients to affect his limbs.


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## DynamicDuo

Indie offers good suggestions. Make sure you try to keep him from jumping down too much. Up is ok but limiting the impact on his front legs jumping down will help. We had hardwood and vinyl throughout as well but kept the DD contained in one room as much as we could and put rugs and carpet in that room for them. So maybe if you can buy some cheap rugs for one room and try to confine him in there when possible it may help. Like Indie said, give the food some time. It WILL work. And don't beat yourself up! YOU didn't do this to him. If anything giving him better care and food contributed so if you had any contribution at all, it was in taking GOOD care of him!


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## Citizen.spark

Thank you guys for the kind words. I'll have to look into getting boots for him. He had an appointment at the vet tomorrow for de-worming. I just feel awful.. I want to take him for walks, as exercise is suggested, it just looks so painful on his paws..


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## Indie

Best exercise for him is to frolic as he wants on grass/dirt, as opposed to going on walks down the sidewalk. Get a lunge line of about 30', and take him to a grassy area where he can explore. Play with another dog is great, too, but avoid dog parks like the plague. Maybe look into a puppy class where they allow the pups to interact and socialize at the end, in a controlled environment. I miss living near a dog club with that indoor turf they use in the NFL... it was so soft, and almost like real grass. 

Good luck at the vet tomorrow, let us know what they think!


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## Mrsw142

I have a 9 week old pup that shows signs of knuckling over, going to change her food from 4 Health puppy food at 27% protein. But want to make sure I’m reading everything correct and everyone is suggesting to switch them to a low protein ADULT dog food? Looking at Blue Buffalo or Royal Canin adult food. First time ever dealing with this, taking her to vet Tuesday but know I should switch her food to help! Any helpful information is greatly appreciated!!


----------



## EckoMac

Mrsw142 said:


> I have a 9 week old pup that shows signs of knuckling over, going to change her food from 4 Health puppy food at 27% protein. But want to make sure I'm reading everything correct and everyone is suggesting to switch them to a low protein ADULT dog food? Looking at Blue Buffalo or Royal Canin adult food. First time ever dealing with this, taking her to vet Tuesday but know I should switch her food to help! Any helpful information is greatly appreciated!!


Read this thread from start to finish. It actually has a breakdown of what to feed to get the legs back to normal again.


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## Mrsw142

EckoMac said:


> Read this thread from start to finish. It actually has a breakdown of what to feed to get the legs back to normal again.


I have read through totally and want to make sure it's TOTW ADULT pacific stream food at 25% protein correct? Not puppy formula?


----------



## Mrsw142

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Pup is definitely knuckling, which is often the result of lack of Vitamin D (sunshine etc) and usually a crappy quality food. A friend of mine on a bully forum had a pup knuckling way worse than this pup and this is what I recommended:
> *1 cup of Taste of the wild Salmon*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *here are all the additives to his meal.....cod liver oil, apple cider vinegar, and yogurt!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *After pouring the kibble into his feed bowl I add 1 "tea spoon" of cod liver oil....if you look at the dosage instructions on the label one pump equals 1 tea spoon so thats what I add. I then mix it around untill all the kibbles in his bowl are shiny with oil.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I then add 1 tea spoon of yogurt*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Before i mix all the yogurt in I add the 1 tea spoon of apple cider vinegar directly on top of the dollip of yogurt.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now I mix it and Vui'lla' ( or ta-daa! for us americans) the dinner is served!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *He likes it!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Carpal Laxity and there is a ton of info. I'll post before and after pics of my friend's dog. It is amazing.


I know this is a very old post but you use ADULT TOTW food correct?


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## DynamicDuo

Yes ADULT ToTW Pacific Stream. It works. Straightened both of mine right up.


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## Mrsw142

Took my pup to the vet to have her “knuckling over” checked out. Vet said that is Carpal Laxity syndrome, does anyone know if this is the same thing as knuckling over? I’ve searched and searched and can’t find anything linking them. Also vet told me to get her off of the ADULT TOTW and put her on a LARGE breed puppy food! I’m at a loss as to what to do!


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## EckoMac

It's the scientific nomenclature for knuckling over. Maintain the diet on this thread as it is posted. This post has been listed as sticky because of how many puppies it has already helped to correct.


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## DynamicDuo

Mrsw142 said:


> Took my pup to the vet to have her "knuckling over" checked out. Vet said that is Carpal Laxity syndrome, does anyone know if this is the same thing as knuckling over? I've searched and searched and can't find anything linking them. Also vet told me to get her off of the ADULT TOTW and put her on a LARGE breed puppy food! I'm at a loss as to what to do!


When my two were seen by the vet for knuckling (and routine vaccines), he said it was not curable and that Kaos was going to be bow-legged and knuckled for life. When I told him that neither pup was like that when we got them, he told me to stick to carpets and especially grass (it was late summer) and see if that fixed it. I decided, on my own, to use this diet and it worked perfectly. My vet was SHOCKED and had never heard of the dietary changes. Kaos now has the straightest legs ever. Diet also cured Nala up from knuckling, though she has other/different issues as well.

Vets are great and should ALWAYS be your first resource; however, they are not omniscient. Stick with the diet exactly as described and your pups knuckling will eventually resolve.

~Jess


----------



## Mrsw142

DynamicDuo said:


> When my two were seen by the vet for knuckling (and routine vaccines), he said it was not curable and that Kaos was going to be bow-legged and knuckled for life. When I told him that neither pup was like that when we got them, he told me to stick to carpets and especially grass (it was late summer) and see if that fixed it. I decided, on my own, to use this diet and it worked perfectly. My vet was SHOCKED and had never heard of the dietary changes. Kaos now has the straightest legs ever. Diet also cured Nala up from knuckling, though she has other/different issues as well.
> 
> Vets are great and should ALWAYS be your first resource; however, they are not omniscient. Stick with the diet exactly as described and your pups knuckling will eventually resolve.
> 
> ~Jess


Thats so good to know! My pup is 9 weeks old and we started her on the diet Saturday and haven't noticed any improvement if anything it looks like its gotten worse. We've been doing 1 cup of food 3 times a day, then the 1 teaspoon of cod liver oil, yogurt and apple cider vinegar, thats correct right? trying to keep her on rugs and not over playing with our other dog as well. tried posting pictures but it wont let me for some reason.


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## DynamicDuo

Yes - for each cup of food 1 tsp each of ACV, oil, and yogurt. It takes a little time to work but it DOES work. Play is fine, you just want to reduce the impact on the front joints - so jumping up is ok, but you don't want her jumping down kinda things. The rugs/grass are for better traction. We were lucky that we went through it in late summer so the pups could both get a lot of outside time in the grass. Patience and you will prevail.


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## Citizen.spark

Guys, I was so excited his legs were actually straight!! Then a few days ago, we're right back to square one with how they look. Anyone else have this issue? I know this diet works because the difference was night and day! But why the regression all of a sudden? Any feedback is welcome thank you everyone!


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## DynamicDuo

Are you still using the diet? If so, keep on it. We had a few steps back early on during growth spurts but keep with it and they will straighten again. If you came off the diet, back to it and stay with it. Nothing in the diet is bad for your dog for long term use. My dogs still eat all those ingredients on a regular basis and they’re 1.5 yrs now.


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## Citizen.spark

DynamicDuo said:


> Are you still using the diet? If so, keep on it. We had a few steps back early on during growth spurts but keep with it and they will straighten again. If you came off the diet, back to it and stay with it. Nothing in the diet is bad for your dog for long term use. My dogs still eat all those ingredients on a regular basis and they're 1.5 yrs now.


I have a few different theories.

1) We ran out of the cod liver oil capsules for about a week. We were still using the vinegar, yogurt and TotW.

2) I had been using the $1 version of cheap Apple cider vinegar. Upon looking again a few days ago, there is a raw, unfiltered kind with "the "Mother" which claims many more health properties and benefits.

So now we're back on track with the cod liver oil and we're trying out this new vinegar. Here are some pics that I hope are viewable.


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## Citizen.spark

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rikn4rMLgE3Bu3Tp1

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LziBjPCDacpmCSju2


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## DynamicDuo

HUGE improvement! That's a pretty bad case of knuckling in the first pic and legs looking so much better in the second. They are definitely straightening and the second pic looks close to normal. Keep up the good work!


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## EckoMac

Anytime you see apple cider vinegar or ACV referenced on this site, they are talking about the kind "with the mother". The mother is where the benefits are. 

I'm glad your pup is almost back to where they should be.


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## Borre97

Citizen.spark said:


> https://photos.app.goo.gl/rikn4rMLgE3Bu3Tp1
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/LziBjPCDacpmCSju2


wow!!! that is a lot of improvement!!!:cheers:

until what age this could be a problem? 12, 18 months?


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## Blueyestormi

This is my pup a couple days ago and didn't see any issues with her paws....








This is today, I'm concerned, is this knuckling in its early stages? I'm new to all of this and ran across this forum and learning a lot but still had questions(if that makes any sense) should I start the feeding regiment talked about in this conversation... we do have tile throughout our home, we did get a piece of carpet to have her play on, we are trying all we can to help her if this indeed is early stages of knuckling... please help  I'm not sure if pictures are going to download I'm new to all of this..

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## DynamicDuo

Yep that's the start of knuckling. You may be able to curb that catching it this early but just switching her to adult formula food - the ToTW Pacific Stream is decent and then she's used to it if you have to go to the full recipe. Try to keep her on carpet or grass, which is even better, as much as possible and try to keep her from jumping down like from the sofa onto the floor if you can. That puts the stress on the front. You caught it fast so it should correct itself pretty quickly.


----------



## Blueyestormi

Thanks for the feedback, we went and got her some of the TOTW today, so should I transition it to her by doing a 50/50 with what she was eating before? Or can I just start giving her completely TOTW?? 


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## DynamicDuo

Transition slowly. 1/4 ToTW for a few days, 1/2 for a few days, 3/4 for a few days. If she gets rocket butt you can mix in some canned pumpkin, the real thing not pumpkin pie spice, and it should firm her up some. 


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## Blueyestormi

Thanks! 


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## Klus864

Trying to figure this out, but after reading this thread, it seems like a puppy issue mainly. But how does it manifest with older dogs, if it wasn’t corrected thoroughly? 

My foster is ~18-24 mos old and his right leg has always kind of bowed out a bit, which can impact his gait a bit. 
Was he potentially a knuckler that wasn’t corrected? Is there any hope of correcting with diet at this point? 
Or does he just have a wonky leg?


----------



## DynamicDuo

Oh he looks JUST like my Nala with her wonky leg. Unfortunately that’s not a knuckling situation and correctable only through surgery. It’s an Angular Limb Deformity (ALD) likely caused because one leg stopped growing before the other. The best thing you can do is keep your dogs weight down, try to lessen the impact on the front legs as much as you can (try to limit jumping down as much as you can) and supplement - I give Dasaquin but glucosamine supplement will help. 

Hope that helps!


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## Klus864

It does help! Thank you 🙂 now....... how to limit a pup that loves jumping...... 🙂


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## Sharahacker1

Hello I came across this forum and am relieved that there is a possible fix to my puppy’s leg problems. We got him two days ago and are just now noticing how bad his knuckling is. (Probably due to all hardwood flooring in our home worsening it I’m guessing) 
He is barely 8 weeks old and I am hoping we caught it in time to fix it. I have read the forum but still need some help. My question is how much do I need to feed him daily to ensure I’m doing this correctly as in each feeding. Also I’m on quite a budget and am trying to figure out if they are any substitutes to the dog food listed. I had read someone fed theirs Rachel Ray dog food and am curious if that is something that could also be used. I just want to help my poor puppy. Any answers are greatly appreciated!


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## DynamicDuo

1 cup 3x a day - I would stick with the ToTW because it’s proven to work. Also put rugs down or try to have the pup on soft surfaces as much as possible. The more time you can spend outside on grass the better - keep it in a controlled environment at your house due to his age. Try to keep him from doing too much jumping down. Up is fine as they use their back legs but jumping off things or down steps puts all the pressure on the front and you want to avoid that as much as possible. I successfully fixed both my pups who knuckled using the recipe provided and following those precautions as much as possible. 


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## Sharahacker1

For the cod oil can it be the capsules with vitamins A & D3 added? I seen that people had posted about just puncturing the capsules and pouring them in so I want to make sure I get the right stuff.


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## DynamicDuo

Sure can just be careful squirting. Some, not saying who Mac, have been known to squirt themselves in the eye with it! LOL


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## BrFred

Hi! My puppy is now 9 weeks old and he is knuckling a bit on both legs (a little more on his right one). I read the thread thoroughly and got very happy to see that there is so many people with good results and that the problem can be solved. But something intrigs me: Does anyone know how the supplements work? I mean, why Vinegar? Why yogurt? What do they do? I'm asking that 'cause I live in Brazil and I won't find that dog food so I'll have to adapt somethings. 

Here are some pictures of Baldur: 

Thanks for having us here😉


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## EckoMac

You'll want to look at the protein levels in the kibble that you have available around you and compare it to TOTW. The yogurt provides probiotics to help the pup process what you feed and the ACV helps boost the immune system and a number of other things, fish oil is a natural anti inflammatory. It's a tested method and has had too many positive results to count and no negative results ever reported.


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## BrFred

Thanks EckoMac.

He's currently eating something very similar to TOTW except for the protein level, which is slightly higher here (28% against 25% in TOTW). I noticed that he's put a lot of weight lately (7.2 lbs in 21 days) so after reading all of this I'll offer him the minimum recommended amount to reduce his growth speed a notch and try to find the supplements.


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## Kyndall

Hi I know this is an old thread but hoping someone can help. I have a 9 week old pit puppy who is starting to knuckle over..I took her to the vet (who doesn’t agree she said she just has joint issues and will have “growing pains” forever) but she doesn’t seem to be in pain. She also told me to but her on a large breed puppy food with grains (also don’t agree). Anyways I switched her to TOTW adult salmon food adding cod liver ACV and yogurt to it. But am I really supposed to be feeding her 1 cup 3 times a day?? She’s about 8 lbs. seems like a lot of food the bag suggests 3/4 cup per day but Since it’s for adult dogs I’m not sure on the amount. Any help would be appreciated!


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## redog

My vet also did not agree with the rapid bone growth. But if you follow Lauren’s diet plan posted here you’ll be amazed. I believe it’s the protein content, I feed my pups low protein because I’m superstitious that way.


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## Kyndall

Thank you! Im doing the regimen that was posted to this thread (started it yesterday)...but am I supposed to really be feeding her 3 cups of food a day?


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## jttar

Welcome to the forum Kyndall. Sorry to hear about your girls trouble. Follow Laurens diet and it will work. If three cups a day seems too much cut it down a bit but stick with it. This diet has helped countless dogs in the past. Please post back and let us know how it's going.

Joe


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## DynamicDuo

redog said:


> My vet also did not agree with the rapid bone growth. But if you follow Lauren's diet plan posted here you'll be amazed. I believe it's the protein content, I feed my pups low protein because I'm superstitious that way.


I agree with it being the protein content and have often recommended that those with issues that are unable to follow the diet exactly, at minimum switch to adult food from puppy food to lower the protein content a bit.


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## Janazagasty

Question my boy is starting to knuckle too he’s 9 weeks old , I got all the ingredients for the diet recipe. But does he eat this once a day ? Or three times a day??


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## Kyndall

im already noticing a different in my puppy after a week of putting her on the diet!! I was feeding her 1 cup 3 times a day and including the yogurt ACV and cod liver oil with each feeding, but lowered it a little because she wasn’t finishing her meals. But it definitely is working!! I thought she was older but turns out she’s about 9.5 weeks now...definitely try it out on your pup! It’s worth it


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## redog

You’re doing great ! This diet has worked so many times that I can’t count. This is a pretty common thing, never saw a pup suffer after the change in diet. Lauren said it would work and I’ll buy whatever she’s sellin! She’s the best dog lady around


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