# Rescues, shelters and "breeds"



## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

Since the consensus here is that any dog which is not registered or doesn't have a pedigree cannot be a member of any breed -- even if say, it looks VERY much or identical TO say, the "breed" that gets called Greyhound, is the notion of "breed" antiquated and past it's usefulness?

Since I hear here many times in dead seriousness that you can't tell breed on appearance, should rescues not make distinctions between dogs (based on appearance) when they determine what dogs they are going to take in? Should there just be "rescues" and not Border Collie rescue or Chihuahua rescue, since none of those dogs CANNOT be a breed?

Because I hear it said here all the time (again in much seriousness) that all dogs in rescue are just mutts because you don't know their background and pedigree.

Is the notion of breed antiquated? If a breed cannot be recognized based on appearance (knowing the obvious that not all reps of a breed are perfect reps _*of*_ that breed), why HAVE breeds?


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I think you don't grasp the concept of mutt meaning unknown and get to caught up on it meaning a mix of breeds.A mutt could be a pure bred dog, you just don't know his lineage. And no, I don't like breed specific rescues. That's just my opinion. It's breedism. We had a dog that might have been a lab/new foundland and neither lab or Newfie rescues would touch him because he didn't look like a lab or a Newfie. That's just messed up. Judging a dog is worthy of getting help by a breed specific rescue based off what someone thinks the dog might be. Nothing about what's his behavior. Does he like to swim? Does he retrieve? Oh both breeds have those traits so you can decode Breed based off that alone. And What does it matter? It's a dog. People can rescue and help what they want that's on them. At least they are trying and I applause any rescue for that.

Multiple pure breed dogs don't always have the traits of their breed and multiple might. Most traits are not isolated an when you read descriptions they typically overlap. Who cares as long as each dog is managed responsibly?

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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I have said this before and I will say it again. BULL BREEDS are very different from other breeds of dogs!!!!! The dogs that the shelters take in should simply call them bull breed mix or something along those lines. There are MANY breeds and crosses of breeds that make up the term bull breed, or as the media puts it -pitbulls. When it comes to BULL BREED dogs you can not tell for sure what breed or breeds that dog could be. 

Other dog breeds don't have this problem. You can pretty much tell a dachshund is a dachshund..or it is a doxie mix. You can tell a German Shepherd is a German Shepherd, a husky is a husky...a Bassett is a Bassett and then the collie breeds like border collies and Aussies when crossed do look like some sort of collie mix-- still within the "collie" type. There are several types of shepherds but still under the "shepherd" look and people will call it a "shepherd mix" 

There are not TONS of DIFFERENT breeds that look like dachshunds or Shepherds! These breeds also do not face the issues that bull breeds do. It's a real shame for say...true APBTs and Amstaffs to get lumped into the BSL when say, a Corso mix attacks someone but the dog is called a pitbull. You don't hear about "poodles" attack and killing people. It's the "pitbulls" -- which are NOT true APBTs or AmStaffs. I'd like to see the peds of these so called "pitbulls" biting people. They don't have peds, they are poorly bred crosses of HA dogs. APBTs and Amstaffs are not typically HA, but the masstiff breeds ARE. 

The bottom line is, other breeds are not facing the issues we have. It's not fair that my people loving dogs should be feared because people don't know what a true pit bull is. AND the other bottom line is...is that bull breeds (called pitbulls) refer to many different breeds of dogs, some of which breeds are guardian breeds.

I also do not like "breed specific" rescues. I like ones like "big fluffy dog rescue" "bull breed rescue" "tiny paws rescue" etc.


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

ames said:


> I think you don't grasp the concept of mutt meaning unknown and get too caught up on it meaning a mix of breeds.A mutt could be a pure bred dog, you just don't know his lineage.


I don't quite agree with that. I've always seen it used to describe a mixed-breed dog, especially one that you can't see any particular breed in the mix. It doesn't mean that you don't know his pedigree!

According to your definition, I could be standing next to some rescue Greyhound that looked exactly like the show dogs in the ring or on the track and I'd have to call it a mutt because he didn't have a pedigree fastened to his butt! Really?



ames said:


> It's breedism.


So, you believe that people shouldn't have a preference for how a dog looks? Is that what you mean by "breedism"?



ames said:


> Multiple pure breed dogs don't always have the traits of their breed and multiple might. Most traits are not isolated an when you read descriptions they typically overlap. Who cares as long as each dog is managed responsibly?


I think knowing the general traits of different breeds is a good place to start in educating someone and properly placing a dog. For example, a Pit Bull can be very shy and still be a pedigreed dog and look and act like a Pit Bull. In order to know that shyness can be dealt with in some dogs and is downright dangerous in others, you have to know what you are looking at. I suppose I am a "breedist" and I will _discriminate_ that the shyness is incorrect and may be downright dangerous in a Pit Bull, but just might be acceptable/more manageable in a sighthound.

So, yes, I have a certain amount of breedism I suppose and I discriminate all the time!


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

I think that the reason many people on here, including myself, refer to bully-type dogs of unknown lineage as mutts is so that not all dogs with muscles and a big head are called a Pit Bull, even by their owners. The general public would be shocked to see what a true Pit Bull looks like. They consider anything and everything vicious to be a Pit Bull, so those who know better simply try and educate when we can that technically, they aren't Pit Bulls, they're mutts. How many of the dog attacks that you see in the media come from registered APBTs? I'd guess almost none. That's why I think the distinction is important. With a dog of unknown lineage temperament will always be more of a gamble. 

See, the issue is that someone that labels a dog as a Lab isn't giving that dog a negative stereotype. But if someone labeled the same dog as a Pit Bull, the dog would automatically receive much different treatment by many people. 

So I understand that most people DON'T understand what a Pit Bull is, and they consider the term to be much more vague than I do. While I'm not going to tear someone's head off or demonize an entire organization for using the term, I will try and individually educate each person that I hear using it. I make a point when people ask me what breed my dog is, or if she's a Pit Bull, to tell them yes, the general public would consider her a Pit Bull, but in reality I have no idea what breeds she has in her. That usually sparks a conversation that allows me to explain further.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

A purebred greyhound without a ped doesn't have very many other breeds that it could possibly be, bull breeds do!!!! With some breeds you CAN tell if they are purebred, with bull breeds you can NOT. That is my opinion.


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

::::COACH:::: said:


> I have said this before and I will say it again. BULL BREEDS are very different from other breeds of dogs!!!!! The dogs that the shelters take in should simply call them bull breed mix or something along those lines.


You can't tell the difference between an APBT and SBT most of the time? Or a BT and an APBT or SBT or AST? Or between a Boston and the others?



::::COACH:::: said:


> There are MANY breeds and crosses of breeds that make up the term bull breed, or as the media puts it -pitbulls. When it comes to BULL BREED dogs you can not tell for sure what breed or breeds that dog could be.


What's wrong with determining what the cross might be (best guess) and go from there? What harm would that do?



::::COACH:::: said:


> The bottom line is, other breeds are not facing the issues we have.


True, but are we doing ourselves any favors by demanding that our dogs have special favors? ("There are no Pit Bulls in rescue"). By firmly demanding that the dog that looks pretty much like your dogs, Coach, is NOT a Pit Bull? (How stupid does that make us look? Like we don't know squat about dogs is what it makes us look like!)



::::COACH:::: said:


> I also do not like "breed specific" rescues. I like ones like "big fluffy dog rescue" "bull breed rescue" "tiny paws rescue" etc.


Again, people are people. They want a certain look. They want a certain behavior. Rescues HAVE to limit themselves (good ones anyway). I see nothing wrong with discriminating and becoming a rescue well-known for good representatives of a specific breed.


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

::::COACH:::: said:


> A purebred greyhound without a ped doesn't have very many other breeds that it could possibly be, bull breeds do!!!! With some breeds you CAN tell if they are purebred, with bull breeds you can NOT. That is my opinion.


Yep, this.

And Carla, in regards to being able to tell different bully breeds apart, sure, when they're purebred! And even then, the general public still wouldn't. Most don't even know there ARE different kinds.

When they're mixed, it's basically impossible. Sometimes they present on trait or another that easily identifiable, but for the most part you'd never be able to guess exactly what goes in to them. My friend has a 60lbs what appears to be COMPLETELY purebred Amstaff, but she has tons of Mastiff in her! She took the physical appearance of an Amstaff, but she's not purebred at all. Understand what I'm saying?


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

BCdogs said:


> I think that the reason many people on here, including myself, refer to bully-type dogs of unknown lineage as mutts is so that not all dogs with muscles and a big head are called a Pit Bull, even by their owners.





BCdogs said:


> The general public would be shocked to see what a true Pit Bull looks like.





BCdogs said:


> They consider anything and everything vicious to be a Pit Bull, so those who know better simply try and educate when we can that technically, they aren't Pit Bulls, they're mutts.


Man, it just seem you're all mighty worried about what others think and instead of being steady and dealing with truths, you are going to hide behind "mutts" and "there are no Pit Bulls in rescue".



BCdogs said:


> How many of the dog attacks that you see in the media come from registered APBTs? I'd guess almost none.


I honestly don't know. We rarely get pictures of the dogs involved or any registration history. I wish we did. IF we were ever to find out that none of the dogs were registered, but looked very very much like say, Coach's dogs, would you still say, "There is no problem with Pit Bulls"?



BCdogs said:


> See, the issue is that someone that labels a dog as a Lab isn't giving that dog a negative stereotype. But if someone labeled the same dog as a Pit Bull, the dog would automatically receive much different treatment by many people.


The problem is the someone that labels the dog incorrectly.



BCdogs said:


> So I understand that most people DON'T understand what a Pit Bull is, and they consider the term to be much more vague than I do. .


So, let's get the truth out there; and not hide behind "mutt". That just teaches them more vagueness!


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

BCdogs said:


> And Carla, in regards to being able to tell different bully breeds apart, sure, when they're purebred! And even then, the general public still wouldn't. Most don't even know there ARE different kinds.


So, let's just give in and state (vaguely) they are all mutts? Instead of teaching and in our conversations here, talking about the similarities and differences; that if you did have an APBT/SBT mix, it would probably look an awful lot like a small APBT; and since as breeds, their temperaments are similar, so this is what you can expect?

I guess not....nothing to see here but mutts...move along...


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Carla Restivo said:


> You can't tell the difference between an APBT and SBT most of the time? Or a BT and an APBT or SBT or AST? Or between a Boston and the others?
> 
> *Nope I can not. APBTs have so many bloodlines and different looks. I have seen plenty of true gamebred dogs that were no joke smaller than a Staffy bull with the same build, I've seen plenty that looked like AMstaffs, etc. Bull breed (or pitbull as the media calls them) also refers to many of the mastiff breeds like American Bulldog, Corso, dogo etc. and when those breeds are crossed with say a APBT or Ambully they look like Large versions of Amstaffs with wrinkles lol *
> 
> ...


*You feel that you can tell what breed a bull breed dog is my looking at it? I'd love to play a game with you then since you can tell. *


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

Carla Restivo said:


> Man, it just seem you're all mighty worried about what others think and instead of being steady and dealing with truths, you are going to hide behind "mutts" and "there are no Pit Bulls in rescue".
> 
> I honestly don't know. We rarely get pictures of the dogs involved or any registration history. I wish we did. IF we were ever to find out that none of the dogs were registered, but looked very very much like say, Coach's dogs, would you still say, "There is no problem with Pit Bulls"?
> 
> ...


We're not hiding behind anything. I just don't consider every shelter dog with a big head a Pit Bull. I'd say there are tons of BULLY-type dogs in rescue and very little true Pit Bulls.

In regards to your hypothetical question, none would be true Pit Bulls. I would still consider them dogs of unknown lineage which, again, brings a much higher chance of having an unpredictable adult temperament.

That's exactly what we're saying....

I still say it's better to refer to them as a mutt than a Pit Bull. The term Pit Bull has become as vague as it gets nowadays anyway, so the only difference is it doesn't pin every aggression issue on a specific breed.


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

BCdogs said:


> In regards to your hypothetical question, none would be true Pit Bulls.


What is a "true" Pit Bull?

(I've seen it used a few different ways, so that's why I'm asking).


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I don't often use the term mutt...I use "bull breed mix" because that gives folks enough of an idea of the kind of dog it is and what temperament to expect. Though bull breed covers a vast number of breeds and crosses of breeds. They just have to hope they don't get a APBT/Mastiff cross...a dog that has the drive and will power of the APBT but the HA of the mastiff is a very dangerous cross. 
I love all dogs I really do, but these dangerous dogs that do attack people do not need to be labeled a specific breed that they are not because the owners have no idea how the dog is bred.

A true pit bull is the American Pit Bull Terrier.


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

::::COACH:::: said:


> I don't often use the term mutt...I use "bull breed mix" because that gives folks enough of an idea of the kind of dog it is and what temperament to expect.


I actually don't have too much of a problem with "bull breed" mix either. Although I think often they do look enough like a Pit Bull to be called one! (And I don't consider a Mastiff as a bull-breed; Bull Mastiff would be).


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Carla, your hangup continues to be with your grasp of the word "mutt" as meaning a mixed dog when it's being used to mean "dog of indeterminable lineage". Replace that phrase wherever you see the word mutt being used, does your issue with the way information is being communicated still exist?

*Mutt*: a dog of mixed breed *or uncertain origin*.

Also, we're not trying to say that these dogs aren't going to act like bulldogs. The issue here is telling someone with a _dog of indeterminable lineage_ that they have a pure bred dog when they don't. They very possibly could be, but none of us are able to tell that _definitively _without knowing the makeup of that dog. It's not teaching vagueness. The _fact _with those types of situations is that they _don't_ know what their dog is, despite what it looks like it _might be_.

So the takeaway, once they get passed the butthurt of not having a purebred dog that they bought from someone on craiglist, or rescued from a shelter (in both cases they likely don't know the genetic history of said dog) is that though their dog isn't an [INSERT BREED NAME HERE] it probably is a mix of one or many bull breeds and thus will likely at some point act like one. The problem though, is that you and the many others that come here, misinterpret this as mutt-bashing when it isn't.

I consider my dog Loki a mutt, because I have zero information about where he came from. He may or may not be, but unless someone magically presents me with a pedigree stating he is X, Y or Z breed, I am going to continue to consider him a mutt because to call him anything else would be pure speculation. It doesn't make me value him any less or love him any less as the pet that he is. But he isn't an APBT, AST, SBT or any other specific breed, so I will not call him one.


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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

Carla Restivo said:


> I actually don't have too much of a problem with "bull breed" mix either. Although I think often they do look enough like a Pit Bull to be called one! (And I don't consider a Mastiff as a bull-breed; Bull Mastiff would be).


OMG there are multiple mixes that would look like a "pitbull" to you! Would you tell someone I own Pitbulls too?

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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

BCdogs said:


> In regards to your hypothetical question, none would be true Pit Bulls. I would still consider them dogs of unknown lineage which, again, brings a much higher chance of having an unpredictable adult temperament.


Can an APBT have an unpredictable temperament?
If so, it's still an APBT, isn't it?


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

Can always count on Carla......


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

Carriana said:


> Carla, your hangup continues to be with your grasp of the word "mutt" as meaning a mixed dog when it's being used to mean "dog of indeterminable lineage".


 What do you mean by "lineage"? Never seen the word used that way before...it's always been a mixed-breed dog! That's how I've always heard and seen it used.


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

Carla Restivo said:


> Can an APBT have an unpredictable temperament?
> If so, it's still an APBT, isn't it?


Of course they can. I said that dogs of unknown lineage have a HIGHER CHANCE of unpredictability because you don't KNOW what to expect from them, i.e. You can't look at their parents or grandparents and get a good idea of their general temperaments. There's nothing to base it off of. You're taking everything I'm saying SO out of context.


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

Carla Restivo said:


> What do you mean by "lineage"? Never seen the word used that way before...it's always been a mixed-breed dog! That's how I've always heard and seen it used.


Ignored.......


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Carla Restivo said:


> What do you mean by "lineage"? Never seen the word used that way before...it's always been a mixed-breed dog! That's how I've always heard and seen it used.


Just because that's the only way you've heard and understood the word doesn't mean that it's the only way the word can be used.

_lineage: lineal descent from an ancestor; ancestry or *pedigree*._

A dog without a known pedigree is, by definition, a dog of undetermined lineage. Bear in mind that we all have an ancestry, but not every bit of it is known. That's the whole point of different and specific breeds, isn't it? Aside from form and function? To have a sense for what is behind your dog, so-to-speak? Otherwise, what would be the point of keeping a pedigree?


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

Carriana said:


> _lineage: lineal descent from an ancestor; ancestry or *pedigree*._
> 
> A dog without a known pedigree is, by definition, a dog of undetermined lineage. Bear in mind that we all have an ancestry, but not every bit of it is known. That's the whole point of different and specific breeds, isn't it? Aside from form and function? To have a sense for what is behind your dog, so-to-speak? Otherwise, what would be the point of keeping a pedigree?


A dog can certainly be purebred and not have a pedigree! There are people that have ASTs from me that didn't register them. They are mutts? According to your perspective, they would be, I understand. I get it. The owners can't do stuff with them that they could with a registered dog, but they are still purebreds.

Two known purebreds are bred together. The pups have a pedigree of sorts, they have a lineage -- we know the names of the ancestors. They are still mutts aren't they?

A mutt is a mixed breed dog, that's the common usage people know. It has an unknown "lineage" because we don't know the lineage of BREEDS in that mutt!


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Carla Restivo said:


> A dog can certainly be purebred and not have a pedigree! There are people that have ASTs from me that didn't register them. They are mutts? According to your perspective, they would be, I understand. I get it. The owners can't do stuff with them that they could with a registered dog, but they are still purebreds.


You seem to be equating pedigree with a piece of paper, a registration. Every dog has a pedigree, but whether or not the pedigree is _known _is the point of issue, not whether it has a piece of paper stating that pedigree. In your example that dog has a known history of pure bred ancestry, therefor it would still be considered a purebred dog with or without being registered.

Now, if that dog were to wander out of its yard, get picked up by AC and somehow wind up being adopted out of a shelter, the shelter workers, new owners and anyone else coming in contact with that dog would _not _know its ancestry and so to them, the dog would be a dog of unknown lineage, or a mutt in _that _sense of the word. Not to say it would be a mix, but a mutt in a different sense, the sense of the unknown part.



Carla Restivo said:


> Two known purebreds are bred together. The pups have a pedigree of sorts, they have a lineage -- we know the names of the ancestors. They are still mutts aren't they?


In this example those dogs would be mutts in the other definition, yes; mutts according to _your _understanding of the word.



Carla Restivo said:


> A mutt is a mixed breed dog, that's the common usage people know. It has an unknown "lineage" because we don't know the lineage of BREEDS in that mutt!


You seem to have a hard time grasping that a word can have more than one meaning. I'm not going to go on and on trying to explain to you what has already been covered, in depth. You can continue to cherry pick posts and twist people's words around but you can't turn what they meant into how you prefer to understand something.

I'm done beating this dead horse.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

We most certainly do get pictures of almost all known dog attacks. Public records. In 2010 there were 33 fatalities. 30 were identified as pit bills by their owners or law enforcement. Once investigated and lineage was determined by multiple factors only three of the 30 dogs reported as pit bulls were in fact American pit bull terriers. Not one news story corrected their report.

All dogs are mutts unless otherwise proven. I don't go around asking and I don't care about a dogs lineage when I meet dogs on the street or find myself standing next to one. I also don't ask people what Breed their dogs are because I do not care. I haven't made it up. You can not agree with it I guess but you can't argue it's not true or advocate that it's ok to call a unknown dog a specific breed on this forum.


























And no I don't think with the right owner a sight hound would be more dangerous than a pit bull. All dogs can have issues all dogs can bite. The bite of an apbt is not the hardest bite of all dogs. But even the Rottweiler gets a bad rap as well. My point is a dog is a dog is a dog and every dog is not good for every person. Problem dogs of any breed need to be in the hands of someone that can read their body language and understand dog behavior. It's not a breed issue to me. It's not a pit bull issue. Breedism is discriminating against a dog based off breed. Canines are considered a race in science but somehow racism seems incorrect to some hence breedism.

As you can see coach and I don't always agree but we don't get our panties bunched. We discuss and maybe agree or respectfully disagree. I see chihuahua label on tons of dogs that probably dont have chihuahua in them. Same with grey hounds and whippets. GSD and Mals. Tons of breeds can resemble other breeds especially when there is another breed involved in the equation. Sometimes mixes look like a combo or favor one breed or another. Shelter dogs it's a crap shoot.

And maybe some people are better than others at it. Or maybe they just think they are. I'll leave you with this. Lake view Ohio instituted a ban and required veterinary proof of breed. The dog was adopted as a boxer x lab. The town said it was a pit bull, get a vets opinion. The vet said bull dog. The town said get another opinion. The next one said bull mastiff x GSD. The town after 5 vets with 5 opinions then made them get a DNA test. It came back border collie x boxer. The town said they must have used a different dogs DNA. eventually the owners won triple damages and got to keep their dog in a court of law. You (and they) feel it is so easy to know what a dog is by appearance and that is what is killing dogs in shelters. Assuming behavior is based off appearance for dogs you have no idea about isn't cool.

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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Good post Ames!


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

Dear lord, reading this thread gave me a serious headache. Nice post Coach, Ames and Carriana. Okay Taking a deep breath. And I know I am going to be repeating a few things, but I want to add my .02 cents. So please bare with me.

Carla, at one point in my life, I thought just like you. I thought you could tell a pit bull from other bull dogs... or breeds at that just by looking at them. I was an arrogant little hussy too. But, I shut up and learned from those how knew more then I. See when you start seeing labs being called pit bulls, you start to question how cognitive some people are.

A pit bull is an American Pit Bull Terrier, which cannot be determined with out a pedigree. Why? Because they come in many sizes, colors, and shapes depending on the breeder and their vision on the breed.

(The following photo is from Tatonka Kennels)









^^^ That bitch I have see in person. She is a small dog. She is also pure bred APBT and does look like a staffy, as Coach stated, there ARE some APBTs that DO look like staffies.

The reason? Because at one point in time the Staffordshire Terrier, the APBT and the American Staffordshire Terrier where all one dog. They all had the same genetic make up. Then you started getting people who bred their dogs for different reasons and then started giving their results different breed names. Though now they are three different breeds, it is VERY possible to breed two pure bred any of these three dogs and get one that looks like one from another breed. I have seen Amstaff looking APBTs (mostly AKC), I have seen Staffy looking APBTs and I have seen athletic looking APBTs (ADBA).

And then we have my beloved Apollo, who came from the same yard as that dog (btw her name is Karma).










I have had SO many people ask if he is a boxer mix OR if he has hound in him. I've actually gotten to where I just call him a mutt around here, and here is why. Theft. There are people in my area that will steal your dog in a heartbeat if they found out it is a pure bred pit dog. Regardless to if you have papers or not. And they don't care who you are either. My Uncle in Law is a constable in my area. He owns a Pit bull type dog. Well some thugs went on to his property and stole the dog. Yes he got the dog back, but my point.

Then you have BSL. There are so many people in my area that are scared of pit bulls because of the media. Who I don't believe should be reporting dog bites to begin with... Its nice to see a kid ask to pet my dog and their parents are okay with it, when you leave the word "Pit Bull" out. I tend to call him a terrier mix or something in public. Not a pit bull. I want a positive association, however, saying pit bull puts a nasty taste in a lot of peoples mouths.

I take it, you have never owned a pure bred dog. And until you do and realize how many times your pedigreed dog gets mistaken for a mixed breed dog because NO ONE knows what they are suppose to look like, then you will see why we call dogs with out a pedigree a mutt or mix. Please take the time to educate yourself in the matter of why the word mutt is better then the word pit bull. Learn that because everyone and their Aunt and Uncle thinks they own a legit pit bull, is why this breed is in so much danger.

I really hope this makes sense. You guys are welcome to pick apart the parts that don't. I am half asleep.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

What breeds of dog are these?


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I just saw one that could confuse many as. A women in a group I'm in posted her pup.

Can't wait to find out what the other pups posted are. As soon as Carla has had a chance post.









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## Kai (Jun 10, 2012)

I like turtles.


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

::::COACH:::: said:


> What breeds of dog are these?


Good ones! Feelin' the pressure now!...

First one: Terrible angle. From this one pic, I would say this is a Pit Bull or Am Staf, would not be surprised if it was a Pit Bull/Lab?

Second one: I have an Am Staf that looks very much like this dog -- from that tail and topline to the ears, only she comes in black!

This dog is stocky kinda like a Staffy Bull, but you don't see that color in Staffie Bulls. I'd say this dog is more than likely a Pit Bull; would not be surprised to find out it was a Staffy Bull x Pit Bull.

Third one: Looks more like a Staffy Bull than the second one, could be a working-syle Staffy Bull or an a-typical Pit Bull (a-typical meaning the dog is not the leggier, less stocky dog the Pit Bull is known for being).

Fourth one: hard to tell much from this angle. Have seen this funky style head in Am Stafs as well as Pit Bulls. Could be either.

Fifth one: I'll go with my first impression -- didn't want to look at this one too long. Lurcher -- Greyhound x Pit Bull?


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

carla,
if you are able to register the litter,
why wouldnt you???????????

its very inexspensive,

if your that cheap, then you should've never bred them


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

German shepherd/Jack Russell Terrier (my friend's known mix breed) 









Lonzo bloodline American Pitbull Terrier









American Pit Bull Terrier (similar bloodlines to the above dog)









American Pit Bull Terrier (Carver scatterbred) I provided an additional picture 
















The last dog is a Lurcher...and it is a very common picture on google of the cross. 









Sooooooo as you can see there is no way of determining exact breed by appearance only.  you can tell they are bull breed type dogs, but it's impossible to know exact breed by appearance alone. The first dog is not even a bull breed...


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

Here is a perfect example of why you cannot determine breed by looks:

https://pets.overstock.com/pets/351472?refinementName=species,&refinementValue=Dog,


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

Well, dang it...I thought others were going to guess too!

Anyway, it was fun!


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

surfer said:


> carla,
> if you are able to register the litter,
> why wouldnt you???????????
> 
> ...


What are you talking about? What litter?


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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

Carla Restivo said:


> Well, dang it...I thought others were going to guess too!
> 
> Anyway, it was fun!


No, most of us understand the concept of not being able to tell the exact breed from a picture.

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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

ames said:


> I just saw one that could confuse many as. A women in a group I'm in posted her pup.
> 
> Can't wait to find out what the other pups posted are. As soon as Carla has had a chance post.
> 
> ...


I take it this is the lady's dog from the group you are in? Pretty dog! I like it

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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

TeamCourter said:


> No, most of us understand the concept of not being able to tell the exact breed from a picture


You know what? On these "what is my dog" threads, I say, "this dog appears to be a Pit Bull" or "this dog looks like a Pit Bull". I never say, "this dog IS a Pit Bull" (which would be an "exact" expression).


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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

Carla Restivo said:


> You know what? On these "what is my dog" threads, I say, "this dog appears to be a Pit Bull" or "this dog looks like a Pit Bull". I never say, "this dog IS a Pit Bull" (which would be an "exact" expression).


Sorry but I don't care how you say it, a new person on the forum is still going to think you are saying they have a "pitbull". Someone new to the forum is going to take your word for it assuming that you are educated like a lot of the people here, and that just isn't right! Do you not understand how mislabeling like that can hurt the breed(the real APBT)?

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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

TeamCourter said:


> Do you not understand how mislabeling like that can hurt the breed(the real APBT)?


What I've learned is that there is no such breed as the American Pit Bull Terrier.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

dont listen to troll folks.... APBT is a breed and its the only breed that should be referred to as pit bull. if its not an APBT then its not a pit bull, point blank.


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

That was quick.


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## STiLL WILL (May 1, 2013)

Carla Restivo said:


> What I've learned is that there is no such breed as the American Pit Bull Terrier.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

STiLL WILL said:


>


Best.Gif.Ever!


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I know! I loved that too Still Will!! LOL


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