# razor edge..



## 502amandab

i just found out that my dog came from a razor edge breeder in kentucky..i want to say lexington, but im not for sure..

is there anything specific about razor edge that i should know? does anyone know the history of this bloodline? i havent had much luck in searches, other than finding sites of puppies for sale, which is not what im looking for lol


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## Bully_Boy_Joe

Whats up and welcome to the forum amandab,
What you must first know about your dog is that he/she is *not* an American Pitbull Terrier, it is an American Bully. American Bullies are supposed to be a cross between American Staffordshire terriers and APBT, but many BYB's have thrown other breeds in such as Mastiffs to get their dogs bigger and taller or bulldogs to get there dogs shorter and thicker.
Here is a links on American Bullies to help you understand even better American Bully Kennel Club - 2008 American Bully Information and Pictures, Am Bullies

Now that that is out of the way, Razors edge is one of the first American Bully lines. It was created by Dave Wilson. Now Razors Edge dogs are mostly very short and stocky. And not too many are atheletic. Here is a link about Dave Wilson and RE +TwinCitiesBlues ++Breeder of Top American Pit Bull Terriers

Hope that helps :cheers:


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## ericschevy

lovethypitbull said:


> Whats up and welcome to the forum amandab,
> What you must first know about your dog is that he/she is *not* an American Pitbull Terrier, it is an American Bully. American Bullies are supposed to be a cross between American Staffordshire terriers and APBT, but many BYB's have thrown other breeds in such as Mastiffs to get their dogs bigger and taller or bulldogs to get there dogs shorter and thicker.
> Here is a links on American Bullies to help you understand even better American Bully Kennel Club - 2008 American Bully Information and Pictures, Am Bullies
> 
> Now that that is out of the way, Razors edge is one of the first American Bully lines. It was created by Dave Wilson. Now Razors Edge dogs are mostly very short and stocky. And not too many are atheletic. Here is a link about Dave Wilson and RE +TwinCitiesBlues ++Breeder of Top American Pit Bull Terriers
> 
> Hope that helps :cheers:


Damn, you go with your bad self...lol:snap:


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## Bully_Boy_Joe

lol Thanks:roll:


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## Elvisfink

Here's a link that will give you information on highly exploited line of Razors Edge. Just put 3 w's before this url riospitbull.com/blue_bloodlines.htm


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## 502amandab

thanks! yea my dog is not athletic lol...


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## cane76

Also do a search in the search engine,the topic is very,very,very frequently addressed.


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## vdubbinya

yeah. razors edge bloodline are all fat and slow and stupid dogs. just look @ mine. hes 3/4 razor edge 1/4 gotti. i bet he cant run 4mph...














:hammer::welcome: btw, i think i smell :flush: can u see the sarcasim?


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## reddoggy

Wow..... Touchy.
Maybe I missed something


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## cane76

vdubbinya said:


> yeah. razors edge bloodline are all fat and slow and stupid dogs. just look @ mine. hes 3/4 razor edge 1/4 gotti. i bet he cant run 4mph...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :hammer::welcome: btw, i think i smell :flush: can u see the sarcasim?


real nice looking staff/apbt!!!


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## ericschevy

vdubbinya said:


> yeah. razors edge bloodline are all fat and slow and stupid dogs. just look @ mine. hes 3/4 razor edge 1/4 gotti. i bet he cant run 4mph...:hammer::welcome: btw, i think i smell :flush: can u see the sarcasim?


LOL, No not all of them. Your's is not over done..:woof:


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## dan'sgrizz

Wow that changes my view...partially. how is his gameness? When a dog is bred for such features i would imagine he would lose certain qualities.


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## bahamutt99

dan'sgrizz said:


> how is his gameness?


Are you asking people here if they match their dogs? :hammer:


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## Kampilan

Elvisfink said:


> Here's a link that will give you information on highly exploited line of Razors Edge. Just put 3 w's before this url *riospitbull.com/blue_bloodlines.htm*


is there something wrong with that website? i can't click on anything..


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## Elvisfink

Kampilan said:


> is there something wrong with that website? i can't click on anything..


I don't know I just click on their site and it worked for me.
Blue BloodLines


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## cane76

gameness isnt really a amstaff trait,although anything can happen,or a staff/pit trait,oh with exception to the almighty "tnt" bloodline,i kid!
Google boy out!


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## Bully_Boy_Joe

vdubbinya said:


> yeah. razors edge bloodline are all fat and slow and stupid dogs. just look @ mine. hes 3/4 razor edge 1/4 gotti. i bet he cant run 4mph...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :hammer::welcome: btw, i think i smell :flush: can u see the sarcasim?


Okay uhh maybe you did not quite understand where i was coming from. I was not saying that *all* American Bullies where "fat and lazy", i was just simply saying that most are. I love the breed and if you payed attention to some of my posts you would know that. Just check my signature lol. Anyways I do know that their are exceptional Bullies out there just look at bluebull and arkkennels dogs.

Nice dog btw:thumbsup:


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## Kampilan

Elvisfink said:


> I don't know I just click on their site and it worked for me.


i can get on the website with no problem but whenever i click on one of the links on the left side, a dialog box would pop up and it would say this:

*Isn't this the most annoying script since BLINK?!*


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## trutildeath360

Kampilan said:


> i can get on the website with no problem but whenever i click on one of the links on the left side, a dialog box would pop up and it would say this:
> 
> *Isn't this the most annoying script since BLINK?!*


yeah..me too...i cant leave the home page....


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## OldFortKennels

Actaully this is a good time to point out one of the problems with the AM BULLY. If I had an AM BULLY this would tick me off alot and that is the fact that there is not a definite standard to what they are calling AMBULLY. The fat low lazy cant work for nothing dogs get lumped into the same group as the more athletic and better structured ones do. Just look at RE dogs, you can have two RE dogs at completely different ends of the spectrum! So when someone says they have a bully you dont really know what to expect in terms of asthetics until you actually see it.


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## danleys gracie

OldFortKennels said:


> Actaully this is a good time to point out one of the problems with the AM BULLY. If I had an AM BULLY this would tick me off alot and that is the fact that there is not a definite standard to what they are calling AMBULLY. The fat low lazy cant work for nothing dogs get lumped into the same group as the more athletic and better structured ones do. Just look at RE dogs, you can have two RE dogs at completely different ends of the spectrum! So when someone says they have a bully you dont really know what to expect in terms of asthetics until you actually see it.[/QUOte
> 
> :goodpost:


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## cane76

OldFortKennels said:


> Actaully this is a good time to point out one of the problems with the AM BULLY. If I had an AM BULLY this would tick me off alot and that is the fact that there is not a definite standard to what they are calling AMBULLY. The fat low lazy cant work for nothing dogs get lumped into the same group as the more athletic and better structured ones do. Just look at RE dogs, you can have two RE dogs at completely different ends of the spectrum! So when someone says they have a bully you dont really know what to expect in terms of asthetics until you actually see it.


ofk,
thats because rigid standards put limits on extremes and thats what the ambully is all about,jmo....


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## vdubbinya

haha i wasn't trying 2 step on anybody's toes. it's just the fact that ever since i've been here i enjoy reading the posts and all, but every one that has a bully, get like looked down on it seems. just because your dog has a certain line doesnt mean u can stereotype it. if you mom's a crackhead does that mean your going 2 be a crackhead? now, i do know what bully's your talking about. i do think u can take it to an extreme...even though i DO like the look, i don't like the fact that the dogs have health problems because of the issue. Now with all that said, he does have a really good drive. And he's been socialized with other dogs since he was a puppy, so he is VERY non aggressive. even though every dog he's ever been around has tried to at one point whoop his @$$ haha. IMO i just think bully's can be done right. heres some updated pix of my boy. i love him to death, by far the BEST dog i've ever had the privilige to own (spelling?), Shane


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## Indica

Yeah people always be getting their panties in a wad if you say RE or Gotti. Enjoy your dog's for what they are or what they aren't and keep on truckin. I know what my dog is to me and nothing else matters. Hold regard to those who speak in behalf of abstract principles with mild interest, but make your OWN mind up about what your dog is.

Every "pure bred" dog has it's very roots in two or more other breeds.

It makes no sense to go crybabying about certain bloodlines and how they are ruining a breed. I'm sure German Shepard breeders in Germany feel the same way about American lines. Fact is, as long as there are working dogs and show dogs within the same breed, there will be variances in appearance.

HOWEVER,
IMO, those dogs which have been crossed with other breeds are quite obvious to me, and quite a different breed. THERE ARE purebred dogs from RE and Gotti lines that were produced legitimately, and those dogs have produced legitimate offspring. SOME of the dogs from these lines are PURE bred-not game- but show quality nicely-bred animals.

BUT, who's gonna do the MAJOR research and nitpicking right? It's just easier to assume they are all "tainted".



"Please..."


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## MADBood

OldFortKennels said:


> Actaully this is a good time to point out one of the problems with the AM BULLY. If I had an AM BULLY this would tick me off alot and that is the fact that there is not a definite standard to what they are calling AMBULLY. The fat low lazy cant work for nothing dogs get lumped into the same group as the more athletic and better structured ones do. Just look at RE dogs, you can have two RE dogs at completely different ends of the spectrum! So when someone says they have a bully you dont really know what to expect in terms of asthetics until you actually see it.


True, there was just so much mixing of different breeds and paper hanging going on that most of the actual bully lines only date back to the early 90's. You really don't know what you are getting. I believe if breeders pick well bred examples of these dogs and continue to linebreed only good representations of the American Bully (soundness in all aspects of the breed)then you may start to see a change in the bully world. I like a good solid, level headed bully that has good drive....whatever the color or pedigree.

The APBT has variations in phenotype as well. Their registries (ADBA and UKC) at least have a set breed standard, though many registered APBTs don't meet them.

It really doesn't matter what your dog is. You want a fat lazy pet..then by all means get yourself a "pocket pit". If you want a show dog buy yourself a pup from proven UKC CH and GRCH parents with multiple titles. If you want work quality.. get what works! It all boils down to what you are looking for in a dog. We all like what we like and that's all that matters.


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## vdubbinya

nice posting indica and madbood. but see what people have to realize is the fact that the apbt wasnt a breed since wolves either. they were bred to produce a special type of dog. terrier and bulldog. same thing is going on now, their creating something for a goal. it shouldn't be looked down upon, but of course this probably happened back in the day also. but the fact of the matter is, different people have different opinions. its ok to have your opinion, just dont be a **** about it to someone who loves their dog as much as you love yours. its like poking fun of their kids. i have 2 daughters and i take the same offense if something happens to them as if something happens to pike. jmo's..... Shane


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## Bleu Clair

Kampilan said:


> i can get on the website with no problem but whenever i click on one of the links on the left side, a dialog box would pop up and it would say this:
> 
> *Isn't this the most annoying script since BLINK?!*


I had the same problem the first few times I got on the site. I'd get ticked at it and just leave the site, but on my last try I finally figured it out. When that box comes up that says "Isn't this the most annoying script since BLINK?!," click the okay in the box and it'll go away. From there use the down arrow key on your keyboard to scroll through the pages (or, of course, the up arrow key if you wanna go up). I don't have a scroll thingy on my mouse, but I'd assume that would maybe work too.


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## MetalGirl30

I have Rain whois RE/Gotti and is nowhere near slow or stupid.
She has drive like you would not believe, she is also very athletic. She does not at all remind me of an AM Bully.
She is bigger than Ceaser and out weighs him by 8 pounds. She will be 1 at the end of November and already weighs 65 pounds.
She is very stubborn and does not know what give up means. Once she sees something of interest she is dead after it.
She had her first scuffle about 2 weeks ago with the neighbor's Boxer that got loose and wandered in our yard. We got them in time before it escalated into a full blown fight, but that Boxer was on her back in a matter of just seconds. I was cleaning out her kennel and had her on a chain runner till I got done.
The lady appologized, and said that she just can't seem to get the dog to stay in the yard....I told her about something called a ....FENCE!!!!

I believe it does not really matter about what bloodline the dog is, but how the dog is itself. Bloodline is important, but you can have a lazy dog with a great bloodline also. Just like you can have an Am Bully with intense drive and athletism.


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## Elvisfink

Link to webpage.

Come see our gentle 'bullies,' unfairly savaged by a currish editorial 
October 6, 2006 12:50 am
AS PRESIDENT of Razors Edge and one of the founders of the American Bully, I am appalled by your Oct. 3 editorial "Bully for the bulls?" Your statements are not only offensive but inaccurate.

The "Back 2 the Bullies" convention to be held tomorrow at the Fredericksburg Expo Center is not for the "celebration of the pit bull" as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull."

*We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits.* The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.

Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now.

The American Bully Kennel Club was created for the registry and promotion of this breed. These dogs have extremely mellow demeanors and were bred for the purpose of companionship. If you had researched the breed or the event, you might have learned more about what you were falsely commenting on.

We have been hosting these shows for more than four years now and have a great track record with major cities all over the United States. These events have all been a success, and people continue to request them in their areas. We have people flying in from all over the United States, and even confirmed guests from Japan, Italy, and the Philippines.

These events have been amazing for bringing all types of people together from all over the world--all races and all genders. The amount of public support has been overwhelming. For this area, the event is also helping the local economy. Three major hotels in this area are sold out, not to mention all the restaurants and pet stores that stand to gain business. Major pet stores, pet-feed companies, rescues, animal shelters, attorneys, and other organizations and individuals are backing and sponsoring this event.

To talk about this event in the context of young girls murdered by a serial killer is sick. How do you think the families of those children feel seeing that incident brought back up and being used in association with a dog show?

Then to talk about a sanctioned dog show in connection with a mauling by a pack of dogs running at large? The dogs that mauled Dorothy Sullivan weren't even pure pit bulls. But whatever breed they were, the tragedy has no correlation with this show. The poor woman who was mauled deserves more respect than to be brought into a commentary about a dog show. This entire editorial was plain sick.

At our event, the local animal control office maintains a booth with a donations box set up for its shelter. Also with booths are dog-rescue organizations that inform the public about all the dogs being put to sleep in shelters. Also at show we have a task force that seeks to bring to justice illegal dog fighters. We have a lady who runs programs in the low-income areas of major cities, and who helps underprivileged children through working with dogs.

We have five nonprofit organizations manning booths. As people from all over the world come to our event, we even have the local police department working there to ensure the safety of all patrons and participants.

At our event, nothing illegal is being promoted, permitted, or advertised. We have done no wrong at all. Our event simply seeks to certain promote a breed in a positive way.

Your editorial misinformed the public about the nature of "Back 2 the Bullies" and the breed it highlights.

DAVE WILSON of Spotsylvania County is president of Razor's Edge, the main company sponsoring tomorrow's Back 2 the Bullies convention.


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## vdubbinya

:goodpost: another one of my points. every other thread they copy n paste this **** =\ :rain::rofl:


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## American_Pit13

Why is Razors Edge automatically mean the dog is an american bully? Is this and american bully? I don't think so.


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## vdubbinya

very nice dog...


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## ARK_Kennel

american_pit13 said:


> Why is Razors Edge automatically mean the dog is an american bully? Is this and american bully? I don't think so.


Because they spend to much time whoring the internet...


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## Bully_Boy_Joe

Not trying to be smart but I just thought that regaurdless of shape and stature, all the dogs who have bloodlines such as RE, Gotti, Greyline etc. Were bullies.
I am I wrong?
Is the American Bully more dependent on the look than the bloodline?


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## Sadie

lovethypitbull said:


> Not trying to be smart but I just thought that regaurdless of shape and stature, all the dogs who have bloodlines such as RE, Gotti, Greyline etc. Were bullies.
> I am I wrong?
> Is the American Bully more dependent on the look than the bloodline?


Well I think you have well bred bullies on the smaller side and then you have overdone bullies I think it's all about the breeding program. The founder of razors edge openly admits that he outcrossed the line and that they are not pure bred pitbulls this is coming from the founder of the line so if he states that as being the facts I would assume he would know better than anyone else I don't see how razor's edge dogs could be pure bred apbt's. Regardless it's a preference but IMO razor's edge is an american bully line based on what I have read as far as public info on the history of the line. JMO But you could also have a dog with a small percentage of razors edge in them mixed with other game lines or other amstaff lines. So I don't know how most people would look at that as far as labeling the dog as bully or apbt. I have heard some people say if a dog has any bully lines in the pedigree the dog is a bully so I don't know I guess it's all on the persons point of veiw and what they are basing it off of


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## MADBood

american_pit13 said:


> Why is Razors Edge automatically mean the dog is an american bully? Is this and american bully? I don't think so.


It may not be an overdone AmBully but if this dog has RE in the peds, then YES, it is an American Bully. I notice the shortened muzzle on this dog and that thick tail..not an APBT characterstic. Your dog doesn't have to be 100lbs and sitting 6" off the ground to be an American Bully...I thought we have already established this.


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## allaboutpitbull

fredericksburg
thats coming out of dave wilson mouth
Come see our gentle 'bullies,' unfairly savaged by a currish editorial 

Date published: 10/6/2006 

AS PRESIDENT of Razors Edge and one of the founders of the American Bully, I am appalled by your Oct. 3 editorial "Bully for the bulls?" Your statements are not only offensive but inaccurate. 

The "Back 2 the Bullies" convention to be held tomorrow at the Fredericksburg Expo Center is not for the "celebration of the pit bull" as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull." 

We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it. 

Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now. 

The American Bully Kennel Club was created for the registry and promotion of this breed. These dogs have extremely mellow demeanors and were bred for the purpose of companionship. If you had researched the breed or the event, you might have learned more about what you were falsely commenting on. 

We have been hosting these shows for more than four years now and have a great track record with major cities all over the United States. These events have all been a success, and people continue to request them in their areas. We have people flying in from all over the United States, and even confirmed guests from Japan, Italy, and the Philippines. 

These events have been amazing for bringing all types of people together from all over the world--all races and all genders. The amount of public support has been overwhelming. For this area, the event is also helping the local economy. Three major hotels in this area are sold out, not to mention all the restaurants and pet stores that stand to gain business. Major pet stores, pet-feed companies, rescues, animal shelters, attorneys, and other organizations and individuals are backing and sponsoring this event. 

To talk about this event in the context of young girls murdered by a serial killer is sick. How do you think the families of those children feel seeing that incident brought back up and being used in association with a dog show? 

Then to talk about a sanctioned dog show in connection with a mauling by a pack of dogs running at large? The dogs that mauled Dorothy Sullivan weren't even pure pit bulls. But whatever breed they were, the tragedy has no correlation with this show. The poor woman who was mauled deserves more respect than to be brought into a commentary about a dog show. This entire editorial was plain sick. 

At our event, the local animal control office maintains a booth with a donations box set up for its shelter. Also with booths are dog-rescue organizations that inform the public about all the dogs being put to sleep in shelters. Also at show we have a task force that seeks to bring to justice illegal dog fighters. We have a lady who runs programs in the low-income areas of major cities, and who helps underprivileged children through working with dogs. 

We have five nonprofit organizations manning booths. As people from all over the world come to our event, we even have the local police department working there to ensure the safety of all patrons and participants. 

At our event, nothing illegal is being promoted, permitted, or advertised. We have done no wrong at all. Our event simply seeks to certain promote a breed in a positive way. 

Your editorial misinformed the public about the nature of "Back 2 the Bullies" and the breed it highlights. 

DAVE WILSON of Spotsylvania County is president of Razor's Edge, the main company sponsoring tomorrow's Back 2 the Bullies convention.


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## MADBood

I'm not trying to be rude but I think everyone on this forum and every other forum has seen this article from mr. wilson. It is obvious that are other breeds mixed into them. RE is just one of many bully bloodlines out there. Alot of bloodlines have been tainted besides RE...if not most UKC dogs. ADBA isn't a saint either but they do make a greater effort in keeping their dogs closer to the traditional standards. 

Most people just want a pet these days anyways, so it really doesn't matter as long as you love them call them what you like as long as you leave the APBT name out of it.


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## ARK_Kennel

Until the UKC sends me new registration papers that say American Bully, my RE dogs are APBT....


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## American_Pit13

They should rename this site %100 game dog bred.com 

Nothing other than your original game lines will give you %100 APBT.

Every major line of show breeders have dogs that have features that are not APBT characteristics

As a matter of fact I have seen game dogs with the same not APBT characteristic as you stated...hmmmm....


ALL DOGS HAVE FAULTS. Faults don't make a dog a bully.


Also wanted to add that I am not saying my dog is %100 the best of the best APBT..


however she is an American Pitbull Terrier. And no not all pits look the same. But just because it has a certain bloodline doesn't make it an American Bully. 



This site gets way to picky and into this %100 pure stuff. 

APBTs are not the game dogs they used to be.

They are now used for show/weightpull and a variety of other sports. So as the sports changed so did the breeding and in turn the dog. Some breeders tried to keep it pure and tight others didn't but over all the breed and its look has changed.

My dog is an American Pitbull Terrier maybe not game bred or with the best of lines but a pit non the less.

The UKC has new standards to weed out the bullys and my dog still meets those standards and those of the ADBA. So while the ADBA and the UKC say this dog is APBT then thats good for me. She competes as an APBT and Wins as an APBT so I think that makes her and APBT


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## cane76

apbts "are" the game dogs of the past,there's still as many game dogs now as then[back in the day] there's just much more dogs overall like bullies and stuff that overshadow the original"game-dog"jmo,.That being said i guarantee that some original game dogs were first generation battle crosses and i believe there was some sort of experimentation through out the breeds history although that much i can not prove.
R.E set out to start a new thing and be different so of course those dogs are not original apbts no matter who registers them or what its said on a pedigree,and a pedigree really doesn't mean much figuring that so many were falsified even in the early era of the breed,jmo....


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## cane76

One more thing as a side thought,
i believe the lable apbt has been bestowed upon a ceartin # of dogs not because of purity but because of fighting ability,that being said,if a R.E dog was proven to be game 
despite his purity i believe that dog would be a apbt.


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## MADBood

ARK_Kennel said:


> Until the UKC sends me new registration papers that say American Bully, my RE dogs are APBT....


Call them what you want but that doesn't make it so. I don't know why you would want to misrepresent but that's you. I watched this whole forum jump on me when I first came here talking about my bullies being APBTs. I honestly thought they were too being as they were registered as APBTs. I realize now that the UKC is a joke and all about the $$. I would never take my Bullies to a UKC event but then again I wouldn't be going to any UKC event to begin with. You have a right to call them what you want but don't expect to change my mind. I know what a true bulldog is capable and most people don't have a clue what a APBT is these days.



american_pit13 said:


> They should rename this site %100 game dog bred.com
> 
> Nothing other than your original game lines will give you %100 APBT.
> 
> Every major line of show breeders have dogs that have features that are not APBT characteristics
> 
> As a matter of fact I have seen game dogs with the same not APBT characteristic as you stated...hmmmm....
> 
> ALL DOGS HAVE FAULTS. Faults don't make a dog a bully.
> 
> Also wanted to add that I am not saying my dog is %100 the best of the best APBT..
> 
> however she is an American Pitbull Terrier. And no not all pits look the same. But just because it has a certain bloodline doesn't make it an American Bully.
> 
> This site gets way to picky and into this %100 pure stuff.
> 
> APBTs are not the game dogs they used to be.
> 
> They are now used for show/weightpull and a variety of other sports. So as the sports changed so did the breeding and in turn the dog. Some breeders tried to keep it pure and tight others didn't but over all the breed and its look has changed.
> 
> My dog is an American Pitbull Terrier maybe not game bred or with the best of lines but a pit non the less.
> 
> The UKC has new standards to weed out the bullys and my dog still meets those standards and those of the ADBA. So while the ADBA and the UKC say this dog is APBT then thats good for me. She competes as an APBT and Wins as an APBT so I think that makes her and APBT


If we were to rename this %100 game dog bred...nobody would have anything to talk about, would they?

Original game lines are the real APBT....not showdogs. The APBT was born in the pit (hence the name) not the show. Maybe we should call the site "Goshowdogs.com"...that would be more accurate. Or better yet, the UKC can rename them American Show Dog Terriers...lol.

FYI a pitbull and an APBT are not the same thing. Pitbull is just as generic as "bulldog". I understand that this is a place for bully breeds...not just APBTs. I just wish people would quit calling thier dogs something they are not, that's all. But to each his/her own, you aren't telling me nothing new or something that hasn't been debated a million times....have fun misrepresenting.


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## ARK_Kennel

MADBood said:


> Call them what you want but that doesn't make it so. I don't know why you would want to misrepresent but that's you. I watched this whole forum jump on me when I first came here talking about my bullies being APBTs. I honestly thought they were too being as they were registered as APBTs. I realize now that the UKC is a joke and all about the $$. I would never take my Bullies to a UKC event but then again I wouldn't be going to any UKC event to begin with. You have a right to call them what you want but don't expect to change my mind. I know what a true bulldog is capable and most people don't have a clue what a APBT is these days.


Show me a registry that is not about the money...


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## MADBood

cane76 said:


> One more thing as a side thought,
> i believe the lable apbt has been bestowed upon a ceartin # of dogs not because of purity but because of fighting ability,that being said,if a R.E dog was proven to be game
> despite his purity i believe that dog would be a apbt.


If "If" was a fifth we'd all be drunk...but yeah that's actually true. But with all the actual proven gamelines out there why roll a RE?...unless of course it had RE way back in the peds being outcrossed several times with gamelines and the dog was just straight up bad assed. jmo of course.


----------



## MADBood

ARK_Kennel said:


> Show me a registry that is not about the money...


Personally I don't pick a dog based on the registry or pedigree alone. I said already that the ADBA wasn't perfect but most well bred gamelines happen to be ADBA. Many dogmen despised the ADBA as well because of what it was becoming. UKC just has a higher % of bullies, AST and curs. No desrespect intended just stating my opinion. If you want to call them APBTs that's fine but don't expect everyone to agree with you, that's all.


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## Sadie

ARK_Kennel said:


> Until the UKC sends me new registration papers that say American Bully, my RE dogs are APBT....


So the Ukc has to send you papers for you to beleive your dog is an american bully? Yet the founder of razor's edge has stated they are not pure american pitbull terriers. So knowing these facts why would you call your dog something it's not? I am just curious IMO you should love and embrace what you have this is the reason the american bully has so many issues people know the truth yet refuse to accept it. I guess that does not make sense to me. If I were to buy a dog with RE or any other bully line I would call it a bully and be proud of what he/she was isn't that why they have the abkc now?. I have no issues with american bullies I think some of them are awsome looking dogs.


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## ericschevy




----------



## MADBood

ericschevy said:


>


:stupid: That's hiliarious...that horse is just getting pounded to death...lol.


----------



## ericschevy

MADBood said:


> :stupid: That's hiliarious...that horse is just getting pounded to death...lol.


Oddly enough, it's not moving at all...lol


----------



## RonnyMc "Jaymo's Dad"

You guys take this stuff VERY seriously. This thread is actually teaching me a lot, but I feel like Jameson might be a some kind of a poodle or something now. I have to rethink my avatar.


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## Marty

ericschevy said:


>


Eric I'm with you on this one, they'll never listen...


----------



## ericschevy

Marty said:


> Eric I'm with you on this one, they'll never listen...


OMFG LMFAO...HAHAHAHAHA AHHHHHHHHHH That one's even better..
ahhhhhhh I cant breathe....


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## Marty

Save it and use it... I don't mind


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## Elvisfink

Straight from Dave's mouth again.

*Story // Dave Wilson Photographers // Eric Motanez, Eric "Ptah" Herbert*

American Bully AKA "Bully"?

The quick answer is: An American Bully is a spin off the American Pit Bull Terrier. The same lineage and blood, but bred for generations for a different purpose and look. To understand this, you must first know some history behind the foundation breed and its directions.

The "Pit Bull" was a dog that came to form in the late 1800's. The purpose of this breed was to be the ultimate competitor. The breed was created for the sport of dog fighting, which for hundreds of years was a legal sport, celebrated by even the elite in society These dogs were bred to never waver in the heat of battle, hence the term "gameness." This term means to have the will to go on no matter what obstacles have to be overcome, even fatigue, and to never mentally quit or give up.

This "gameness" was the main trait bred into the breed. Another main trait was the breeds stability with people. The breed was so human tolerant that it would never bite the hand of a person, even in the heat of a match. This trait was bred into the breed to protect handlers and referees from getting bit while in a match. The breed was created to be the ultimate gladiator, but never to harm a human, thus the breed was never meant to have any human aggression.

The breed increased in size when it came to the US, and later adopted the final name of " The American Pit Bull Terrier". They used American in the name, because America is where the first registry created for the breed was formed. They used "Pit" in the name, because this was the name of the arena used in the sport they were created for. They used the word "Bull" in the name, because a "Bulldog" type was used in the creation of the breed. They used the word "Terrier" in the name, because a "Terrier" type breed was also used in the creation of the breed. A "Bulldog" type was used for power, build, and stability. A "Terrier" type was used for its tenacity and agility.

The first American Pit Bull Terriers were introduced for breed registration and acknowledgement to the only registry at that time, The American Kennel Club or "AKC." The AKC denied the breeds acceptance in its registry because the breed had no written breed standard; physical criteria that a breed should posses, written standards and descriptions of such. At this time the only trait heavily desired was "gameness." Since the AKC denied the breed to its registry, a new registry was formed, The United Kennel Club or "UKC." The UKC was created solely for this breed, and as years went on, a standard was written for the breed and adopted by the UKC.

There were still breeders who wanted the breed recognized by the AKC, so they decided to take lines from the breed and breed them in their own direction. They bred them for the purpose of companionship, and for the sport of conformation competition. Conformation competition is a show where the dogs are judged on their physical traits, movement, and handling, according to the written breed standard. These breeders wrote a new standard based on the one used by the UKC, and they continued to breed these dogs for 70 more years. Because of this the breed had changed in appearance and temperament. This spin off the original "Pit Bull" was no longer used for competition fighting, so their personalities, temperaments, and builds changed. This new breed was given the name "The American Staffordshire Terrier" or "Am. Staff". The AKC accepted the breed and now considers this a new breed of its own, and separate from the "Pit Bull". The UKC; however, accepts these Staffs as Pit Bulls and will allow them to be single registered with their registry as "Pits".

Dog fighting became outlawed in the 19th century in the US, and the UKC changed its purpose and standards for the breed. A group of the breeders of the game lines left this registry and created another registry called "The American Dog Breeders Association", or "ADBA". For generations these three registries all recognized the breed for different purposes and different standards, so the breed changed and spawned into different directions. Nowadays, the breed has been used for different types of conformation shows, weight pulling, companionship, and some even still breed the original game dogs. Due to these many directions, the breed has changed and spawned into many different forms and personalities, which brings us to where we began with Pit vs. Bully&#8230;

*About seventeen years ago I started breeding to create the Razors Edge line&#8230; I started with a foundation of the AKC registered "Staffs", they carried the heavier builds, larger heads, and more mellow demeanors. We crossed in lines from UKC registered "Pits" to add more muscularity, more drive, and a harder look. After about seven years of blending and selective breeding, we came out with the look and personality that we were striving for. These dogs carried large blocky heads, short and square muzzles, full body muscularity, heavier bone structure, and just all around physically powerful builds. The personality was still to be stable and docile towards humans, but we also washed out a lot of the dog aggression that the original blood carried. In our minds we had created the ultimate companion dog.

These dogs had to be registered with the UKC, because it was the only registry that acknowledged all the spawns as the same breed. So we began competing in the UKC conformation shows. The dogs did very well and in time were given a slang name called "Bullies". This name was given basically to describe their build and the thicker look of the style. In time, "Bully" bloodlines spawned all over the US.*

Razors Edge was just one of many of the "bully" lines. Other "bully" lines that are popular are: Greyline, Gottiline, Gaff, Watchdog, Camelot, DeLaCruz, Butthead, Royal, Kaos, Gangus Kahn, and many more. Even the Razors Edge bloodline spawned into other Bully lines like Remyline and Shortyline. A new look and style had formed, and its popularity spread worldwide The "Bullies" had began to make their own name and place within the breed. The love for the "Bullies" spread way beyond the UKC conformation show world. In time, the show world pushed for a direction that did not favor the "Bully" style. This left a large group of extremely diverse people, who were left with nowhere to compete and show off their dogs.

In 2003, a concept for a new registry was created for the purpose of the promotion, registration, and competition of this style of the breed, the "Bullies". Fanciers of the "Bullies" were already gathering in large numbers at BBQ style events. People from all over, and of all races would get together and host BBQ style events for the "Bullies". This provided a more relaxed atmosphere, usually with DJ's playing music, people barbequing , vendors selling "Bully" paraphernalia and gear; and breeders, owners, and fanciers of the dogs in the hundreds. These gatherings drew in large amounts of people, and especially Bullies.

A new registry was formed to accommodate these people and their dogs, so they had a way to compete with their style of dog. The registry decided to use the slang name already given to this style, "Bullies"; but, they also decided to add the name "American" to the title. This was to properly represent the nation of the breed's origin. The breed now was given the formal name, "The American Bully". The kennel club registry used the name, "The American Bully Kennel Club", or "ABKC". Now the breed had a name, a registry, and a way to compete! The biggest part of the "American Bully" goes beyond the dogs, and is the life style surrounding the breed and events. The "Bullies" now have a following worldwide, and Expo style events for these dogs bring in spectators by the thousands. The "Pit Bull" has been part of the urban world for decades now, but the American Bully is making its name as a new face in this world. You can see them featured on CD covers, music videos, and even magazine such as this one, which was created for the breed and the lifestyle.

The main differences between the "Pit" and the "Bully" are hard to state as facts, because there are many different style to the "Pit". So, we will us a general comparison using the generic form of the "Pit". Basically, an every day back yard "Pit Bull"

Head: The head of the typical "Pit" is somewhat blocky and should have some cheek structure. The "Bully" should have a nice size head, on the large side, with sculpted head, muzzle, and protruding cheek structure...


----------



## ARK_Kennel

SadieBlues said:


> So the Ukc has to send you papers for you to beleive your dog is an american bully? Yet the founder of razor's edge has stated they are not pure american pitbull terriers. So knowing these facts why would you call your dog something it's not? I am just curious IMO you should love and embrace what you have this is the reason the american bully has so many issues people know the truth yet refuse to accept it. I guess that does not make sense to me. If I were to buy a dog with RE or any other bully line I would call it a bully and be proud of what he/she was isn't that why they have the abkc now?. I have no issues with american bullies I think some of them are awsome looking dogs.


Uh, yeah. They should also stop Ch. out my dogs too.


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## vdubbinya

pike is adba reg.ed.... god im so tired of reading that copy n paste lol. :thumbsup: u got ur point across, :cheers: yet im still going to oke: u about it.up: what we are trying to say is, u guys say, "if its got game its a pitbull" WTF either u say its a bully or u say its a pit. it cant be both right? yet u say it can, if it has the desired trait u want. yet why would u want it? u fight your dogs? i've personally taught my dog to be non-aggressive so i couldnt tell u if he has game or not. i know he has drive, he plays with his flirt pole and soforth. he fetchs. he pulls centerblocks around the yard...is he an apbt now? i dont understand your logics? do any of u see my point? lol heres another one to stare at :cheers:


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## ericschevy

_Purebred dogs_ are by definition registered members of modern breeds. Breeds of dogs may be registered either in an _open stud book_ or a _closed stud book_. The term _purebred dog_ is typically used to mean dogs registered with a _closed stud book_ registry, but the connotation of desirability of this type of registration is disputed by owners of purebred dogs from _open stud book_ registries.

The _closed stud book_ requires that all dogs descend from a known and registered set of ancestors; this results in a loss of genetic variation over time, as well as a highly identifiable breed type, which is the basis of the sport of conformation showing. In order to enhance specific characteristics, most modern _purebred dogs_ registered with _closed stud books_ are highly inbred, increasing the possibility of genetic-based disease.[5]
The _open stud book_, meaning some outcrossing is acceptable, is often used in herding dog, hunting dog, and working dog (working dog meaning police dogs, assistance dogs, and other dogs that work directly with humans, not on game or livestock) registries for dogs not also engaged in the sport of conformation showing. Outcrosses with other breeds and breeding for working characteristics (rather than breeding for appearance) are assumed to result in a healthier dog. Overuse of one particular stud dog due to the desirability of the dog's working style or appearance leads to a narrowing of genetic diversity, whether the breed uses an _open stud book_ or a _closed stud book_.[6] The Jack Russell Terrier Club of America states, "Inbreeding favors genes of excellence as well as deleterious genes."[7] Some _open stud book_ breeds, such as the Jack Russell Terrier, have strict limitations on inbreeding.[8]
Crossbred dogs (first generation crosses from two purebred dogs, bred for heterosis, or hybrid vigor, also called dog hybrids) are not breeds and are not considered purebred, although crossbreds from the same two breeds of purebreds can have "identical qualities",[9] similar to what would be expected from breeding two purebreds, but with more genetic variation. However, crossbreds do not _breed true_ (meaning that progeny will show consistent, replicable and predictable characteristics), and can only be reproduced by returning to the original two purebred breeds.


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## MADBood

I don't see what the big deal is. I have UKC registered bullies too but I accept what they truly are. I don't care what the papers say...seeing is believing. I don't expect people to agree with what I say....just look at your dog compared to a gamebred dog(Yes, the real APBT) and tell me if they are anything alike function wise or phenotype. 

I could easily buy a Mercedes emblem and put it on my Acura but that doesn't make my a car a Benzy either.


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## Sadie

vdubbinya said:


> pike is adba reg.ed.... god im so tired of reading that copy n paste lol. :thumbsup: u got ur point across, :cheers: yet im still going to oke: u about it.up: what we are trying to say is, u guys say, "if its got game its a pitbull" WTF either u say its a bully or u say its a pit. it cant be both right? yet u say it can, if it has the desired trait u want. yet why would u want it? u fight your dogs? i've personally taught my dog to be non-aggressive so i couldnt tell u if he has game or not. i know he has drive, he plays with his flirt pole and soforth. he fetchs. he pulls centerblocks around the yard...is he an apbt now? i dont understand your logics? do any of u see my point? lol heres another one to stare at :cheers:


That's the point! You can't teach an APBT to be non agressive with other dogs or animals it's been bred into them for years you can control it by preventative measures but you damn sure can't train it out of them and that's a fact and not everyone can handle a game bred dog unless you have owned apbt you wouldn't understand the difference it's something you would have to exp first hand to understand it .. I have 3 puppies who are at 8 months now who are DA and they are still puppies nothing I can do about it they have been socialized and trained from early on but still have DA in them it will never go away no matter what I do I can no longer take them to petsmart why? because they want to fight other dogs it's part of owning an apbt I have to monitor them super close even when they play together 2 of them have already shown aggression with eachother and guess what ? They have been rasied together 2 of them are brother and sister from the same litter not exactly a walk in the park but it's part of the breed ... Also Game bred and Game dog 2 diff things game bred = a dog bred from game bloodlines game dog= fighting dog proven in the box none of us here own GAME DOGS but there are a few who do own game bred dogs ... But bullies have been bred to be non-agressive that was one of the things bully breeder's like dave wilson did when the american bully was created it was to create the perfect house pet they bred OUT the animal agression of these dogs making them more suitable for a house pet while breeding for a show type dog with heavier body structure larger head wider body ect. If you want to call your dog an apbt by all means do so but people who know the difference will tell you the truth because they will assume you don't know any better or you do and choose not to accept it. Either way makes no difference to me. I think you have a beautiful dog and he should be loved no matter what he is. I personally knowing what I know now if I owned american bullies would NOT call them apbt's because it would be inncorrect to do so I would promote them for what they are JMO


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## vdubbinya

No No No. that's not the point. i understand that he has am blood in his veins, that's not the point. my point was, they say all bullys are slow and stupid, and if they have "game" then their apbt. that just doesnt make sense to me. and no, i will admit the fact that I have never owned a true apbt. HOWEVER, i have lived with one, my brother in law had a 100% jocko pit. And she was 100% sweet, non-aggressive. SO JUST BECAUSE u have a apbt DOES NOT MEAN its dog aggressive by nature and u cant train it to not be. that is by far the crazy'est thing i've ever seen, and that kind of view on the breed is what gives this great breed such a bad name. ALSO, my best friend has a gator pit. Guess what, that's a game bloodline, and my bully play's with his pit, every day.  heres some pix, the brindle pit is the jocko, that's her son beside her, he is 100% pit mixed with his dad 100% english. black one is Halo, 100% gator pit.


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## Sadie

vdubbinya said:


> No No No. that's not the point. i understand that he has am blood in his veins, that's not the point. my point was, they say all bullys are slow and stupid, and if they have "game" then their apbt. that just doesnt make sense to me. and no, i will admit the fact that I have never owned a true apbt. HOWEVER, i have lived with one, my brother in law had a 100% jocko pit. And she was 100% sweet, non-aggressive. SO JUST BECAUSE u have a apbt DOES NOT MEAN its dog aggressive by nature and u cant train it to not be. that is by far the crazy'est thing i've ever seen, and that kind of view on the breed is what gives this great breed such a bad name. ALSO, my best friend has a gator pit. Guess what, that's a game bloodline, and my bully play's with his pit, every day.  heres some pix, the brindle pit is the jocko, that's her son beside her, he is 100% pit mixed with his dad 100% english. black one is Halo, 100% gator pit.


Well I dont know who said bullies are stupid slow and lazy I sure dont think that I like bullies when they are bred properly ... Not ALL game bred dogs are dog aggressive but many of them are by nature I would say 90% of them are ... I have never been able to train out dog aggression and anyone who claims the can is full of sh*t can I control it ? Sure I can but it does not go away and can resurface at any point and time or situation. The reason why owner's give this breed a bad name is because people fail to realize and accept the nature of these animals they own them blindly thinking that they can tame out the aggression and that as long as you socialize them from puppyhood that will somehow prevent aggression later on. NEWSFLASH not true an apbt can turn DA at any given time there is no set time or rules that apply to dog aggression with this breed alot of time it's unexpectd and unforseen. I have seen it I won't go into it but I will never be one of those owners who walks around thinking because I have trianed my dog well that means he/she will always be sweet and live in harmony with all animals those are the ones that end up on the news. But don't take my word for it. As a responsible loving owner of this breed I will always live by the saying never trust your pitbull not to fight. Good luck with your dogs


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## vdubbinya

no no, i do agree with you that u should always expect the unexpected. don't set yourself up for failure, but at the same time, dogs will be dogs. they fight just like humans fight. they have bad and good days. first two times i took my boy to play with the gator pit (halo) they played fine. 3rd time he played a lil rough, but its because my boy lays down in submission, i guess because of his age. but when he lays down, the pit becomes dominate and kinda throws his weight on him to let him know who's older, whos the boss. lol. i will admit that most of pits are dog agressive. but its (IMO) ignorant to say that u cant correct it. not calling u ignorant, im not here to make enemys, just to have discussions and learn more. Just in MY experience, i've learned that dogs are like kids, (actually a little easier, those who also have kids) lol, they have to respect you and your decisions NO MATTER WHAT.


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## Sadie

vdubbinya said:


> no no, i do agree with you that u should always expect the unexpected. don't set yourself up for failure, but at the same time, dogs will be dogs. they fight just like humans fight. they have bad and good days. first two times i took my boy to play with the gator pit (halo) they played fine. 3rd time he played a lil rough, but its because my boy lays down in submission, i guess because of his age. but when he lays down, the pit becomes dominate and kinda throws his weight on him to let him know who's older, whos the boss. lol. i will admit that most of pits are dog agressive. but its (IMO) ignorant to say that u cant correct it. not calling u ignorant, im not here to make enemys, just to have discussions and learn more. Just in MY experience, i've learned that dogs are like kids, (actually a little easier, those who also have kids) lol, they have to respect you and your decisions NO MATTER WHAT.


It can be controlled you can correct certain behaviors by avoiding certain situations. But each situation can be very different aggression stems in all forms and severity. I have yet to own an apbt that was not dog aggressive at some point it came out . I can only base my information on what I have seen and exirpenced with my dogs and past dogs I have been around. You have to know your dogs and what they will and will not tolerate I will not put any of my dogs in a situation that I know may aggravate their aggression and they respect me to the fullest but they are still animals they think react and behave with animal instincts which is alot different than us humans. In some ways they are like kids but they are still animals and you can never forget that. I think what some people were trying to point out is with apbt's the aggression is more alive because the apbt was created for a purpose to fight historically they are galdiators/working dogs that was their purpose so years of breeding for aggression and working ability has carried on even in to todays apbts. When people like dave willson decided to create the american bully he wanted to breed out the animal aggression that was one of his goals which is why most not all but most american bullies will be more submissive with other animals and show little or no animal aggression with other dogs/animals. Owning an american bully is a choice some people like gamebred apbt's because they stand as close to the orginal standard of the american pitbull terrier with their working ability. And then you have those who prefer a calmer show type dog who was typically bred for apperance without the animal aggression like todays american staffordshire terrier or the american bully. These are just some of the obvious differences between the american pitbull terrier and the american bully. That's not to discredit the american bully or say they are lazy sloppy ect they were just not bred to be a working dog. Every breed has a purpose weather it be a working dog a show dog a guard dog ect that's what I gather people like madbood were trying to explain. You will have some who disgust bullies and may say bad things about them but it's just like anything else I don't agree with bashing american bullies or any other breed of dog. I love all animals but I do prefer game bred dogs because I think they are the closest thing to the true standard of the apbt and what it was intended to be without the illegal activities of the past if that makes sense. It's not about my dog is more game than yours it's about purpose and what that breed of dog was created to do. It's like comparing a working dog to a gaurd dog both dogs have a different purpose so you really can't compare the 2. Again not downing or knocking just giving my opinions about the situation


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## jatheodore

vdubbinya said:


> yeah. razors edge bloodline are all fat and slow and stupid dogs. just look @ mine. hes 3/4 razor edge 1/4 gotti. i bet he cant run 4mph:hammer::welcome: btw, i think i smell :flush: can u see the sarcasim?


How old is your dog in this pic?


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## jatheodore

i can't quote the pic yet but the dog in the first response you posted


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## jatheodore

5 more posts and i can post a pic wohooo


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## vdubbinya

he was 9-10 mon


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## American_Pit13

MADBood said:


> FYI a pitbull and an APBT are not the same thing. Pitbull is just as generic as "bulldog".


You should educate yourself before speaking and correcting people.

How is an American PITBULL Terrier not a Pitbull lol... Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Yes the media calls anything with a big head or cropped ears a pit or pitbull but that does change the fact that an APBT ( american pitbull terrier) is a pitbull.

Also bulldog is not generic lol... There are American BULLDOGS English BULLDOGS........ Its called shortening a name


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## koonce272

american_pit13 said:


> You should educate yourself before speaking and correcting people.
> 
> How is an American PITBULL Terrier not a Pitbull lol... Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
> 
> Yes the media calls anything with a big head or cropped ears a pit or pitbull but that does change the fact that an APBT ( american pitbull terrier) is a pitbull.
> 
> Also bulldog is not generic lol... There are American BULLDOGS English BULLDOGS........ Its called shortening a name


Speak for yourself

I agree to a point and HIGHLY disagree to another. Yea it is a shortened version to say a "Pitbull" but in all reality, you go look in any breed listing book and you will find NO such dog as a "Pitbull". A pitbull is a fighting dog, could be any kind of dog, even a poodle. I am very sick of this Pitbull term being thrown around. I beat this to death here in my city as they lable just about any dog even close looking to a pitbull but then they go on to say ban the breed.

PITBULL is NOT a Breed, its a style of dog, and when used around the correct group of people can be understood as a Pitbull hence a shortening of the name.

Ive debated this far too much, when a 100lb dog attacks someone, they call it a pitbull, yes it could very well be a pitbull but then dont go and say its the Breed.

I know i strayed a tad off topic, but hopefully you get what i am saying.

There is a huge difference between a Pitbull and an American Pitbull terrier.

Bandogs, Anglican Mastiffs, Cane corso, can all be labled as a pitbull, but not as an American Pitbull terrier.

But again, its does depend on who you are having your conversation with and what the convo pertains too.


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## vdubbinya

:goodpost: lol, was meant for american_pit13. And i dont see how you could label a "pitbull" as a cane corso,anglican mastiff or bandogs lol. that makes no sense. u sound like the media. OMG THAT pitbull attacked me, (LAB)


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## Sadie

That's how I have understood it to be that pitbull is a generic term for a bulldog type dog maybe I am wrong but this is how I understood it as well. Pitbull is not a breed but the american pitbull terrier is, american stafforshire terrier, american bulldog or american bully these are what I would consider breeds. If I am wrong well you learn something new everyday but this is how I understood it


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## koonce272

vdubbinya said:


> :goodpost: lol, was meant for american_pit13. And i dont see how you could label a "pitbull" as a cane corso,anglican mastiff or bandogs lol. that makes no sense. u sound like the media. OMG THAT pitbull attacked me, (LAB)


EXACTLY my point. If that LAB fights in a Pit, yes it is A PITBULL.

A *pitbull *in all reality is a FIGHTING DOG. hence labeling any dog that fights, as a PITBULL.

How is this not making sense! Go do some good old research and you will see that at one point ANY dog that fought in a PIT is a PITBULL.

PITBULL is a TERM, NOT a BREED. Get it right

Now if you were conversing on let say this site. then yes a i can see the context of someone using the term pitbull as a short term for American Pitbull terrier, but out in actually society, NO


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## vdubbinya

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::thumbsup: ok i will just agree to disagree because your not going 2 anywhere NEAR change my mind on that. ty.

BTW a lab has no corrolation to a bulldog. pitBULL.


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## koonce272

:clap:

oke:sweet, good for you. Believe what you want. lol lol hahahahah whatever you feel makes you sleep better at night. But there is a difference.


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## koonce272

vdubbinya said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::thumbsup: ok i will just agree to disagree because your not going 2 anywhere NEAR change my mind on that. ty.
> 
> BTW a lab has no corrolation to a bulldog. pitBULL.


Umm learn to read. I never once said a lab is anything like a bulldog.

I said a dog that FIGHTS has been and will always be labled as a PITBULL

here lets put this so you can understand

PITBULL= FIGHTING DOG
American Pitbull Terrier= an actual dog breed.


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## vdubbinya

i will sleep better :cheers: because it would be a pitDOG not a pitBULL. has no BULLDOG whatsoever.:stick:


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## koonce272

Wow. Thats about all i can say to your ignorance


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## Sadie

Ok I got this of wikiepedia here is the definition of a pitbull

Pit Bull is a term commonly used to describe several breeds of dog in the Molosser family that were historically used for dog fighting. The breeds most often placed in this category are the American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

In the media the term is vague and may include other breeds with similar physical characteristics, such as the Perro de Presa Canario, Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino, Alano Espanol, Japanese Tosa, Dogue de Bordeaux, Cordoba Fighting Dog,]], Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, American Bulldog, Boxer, Valley Bulldog, Olde English Bulldogge, Renascence Bulldogge, and Banter Bulldogge. These breeds are rarely listed by name in breed-specific legislation, but they are sometimes included when the term is defined broadly and based on physical appearance.[1]


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## vdubbinya

koonce272 said:


> Umm learn to read. I never once said a lab is anything like a bulldog.
> 
> I said a dog that FIGHTS has been and will always be labled as a PITBULL
> 
> here lets put this so you can understand
> 
> PITBULL= FIGHTING DOG
> American Pitbull Terrier= an actual dog breed.


actually, take your own advise, u did say if a lab was in the pit it would be considered a pitbull. that statement is FALSE. it would be a pitDOG not a pitBULL. PITBULL IS NOT A GENERIC TERM FOR FIGHTING DOG. its a generic term for a apbt. Pitbull is only associated with bulldogs, pitdog and pitbull are 2 totally different things.


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## Sadie

vdubbinya said:


> actually, take your own advise, u did say if a lab was in the pit it would be considered a pitbull. that statement is FALSE. it would be a pitDOG not a pitBULL. PITBULL IS NOT A GENERIC TERM FOR FIGHTING DOG. its a generic term for a apbt. Pitbull is only associated with bulldogs, pitdog and pitbull are 2 totally different things.


You may want to read this not arguing but this is what I found

Pit Bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## vdubbinya

that's why i said he/she sounds like the MEDIA  it even states, IN the MEDIA its vaguely used. And all of us that are true apbt/bully breed enthusiest know that we get pi$$ed off when a lab bites somebody and the media cries pitbull.


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## Sadie

vdubbinya said:


> that's why i said he/she sounds like the MEDIA  it even states, IN the MEDIA its vaguely used. And all of us that are true apbt/bully breed enthusiest know that we get pi$$ed off when a lab bites somebody and the media cries pitbull.


Yeah that is part of owning a bully breed the media hypes and sterotypes it to the fullest ..but it does say that the pitbull is a common term to describe certain breeds of fighting dogs. In any event I posted this for those who were not clear about the definition of the pitbull. Hope this helps anyone else who may have been confused about the term pitbull


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## koonce272

vdubbinya said:


> :goodpost: lol, was meant for american_pit13. And i dont see how you could label a "pitbull" as a *cane corso,anglican mastiff or bandogs *lol. that makes no sense. u sound like the media. OMG THAT pitbull attacked me, (LAB)





vdubbinya said:


> i will sleep better :cheers: because it would be a pitDOG not a pitBULL. has no BULLDOG whatsoever.:stick:


Wow you just condradicted youself there huh? Wow you are more ignorant than i thought.

1st you say oh no, no cane corso, anglican mastiff can be a pitbull, but now your saying that a lab cant be one because is doesnt have bulldog. your right on that but the breeds of dogs that i listed before all orignated from some form of a bulldog, but you say they cant be a pitbull

do you even makes sense to yourself

Well
umm where do you think they originated from. BULLDOGS somewhere in there bloodline. Go look up what an Anglican Mastiff is.

Again WOW.


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## koonce272

vdubbinya said:


> that's why i said he/she sounds like the MEDIA  it even states, IN the MEDIA its vaguely used. And all of us that are true apbt/bully breed enthusiest know that we get pi$$ed off when a lab bites somebody and the media cries pitbull.


agreed, not trying to sound like the media, just trying to prove a point.

So when dog fighting first came out, all those dogs were mutts, not all were bullylines, hence why i used Pitbull in the Lab term and you were the one who brought the lab into this mix.

the 1st pitbulls were MUTTS, looked nothing like todays pits. It wasnt after years of fighting people began to breed for certain characteristics.

so yea, ill give you the Lab one. But DONT in anyway put me down as a non pitbull ethus, or someone who doesnt everything they can to promoted this breed.

Please look at the terms inwhich i am using this. I have said nothing about a LAB(non fighting dog) attacking someone and calling it a pitbull.
I couldnt agree with you more on your logic there.

DONT PUT WORDS IN MY mouth.


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## koonce272

vdubbinya said:


> riiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttttttttttttttttt. go hit the crack rock again.


more ignorance. Keep this on subject there ethus. Good one. Stupe a little lower dont you.


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## Sadie

Ok I think we all need to take a breather here it's not that serious I think this thread is getting way to personal let's just drop it and move forward


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## vdubbinya

that y i deleted it. :hammer: srry.


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## Marty

*Thread closed for now.*


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