# Food Choice and Healthy Dogs. No vet suppport!



## Fancee&Sterling'sMom (Mar 26, 2010)

First of all, I would like to say hello to everyone since I am new to the forum and this is my first post. Secondly, I apologize that my first post is going to read like a novel. Lol It will be so long but I am in desperate need of advice and the only way that I think that you will be equipped to deal with my frustration is if you know the whole story about my “dog children.”

I will start off by saying that I have had pets my whole life during childhood and have had my cat, Blue, from his birth and he is now seven. He has been the only pet that I have had in adulthood and was looking forward to getting a dog since I am a big dog lover. I had never had any personal experience with APBTs and sadly the only things that I really knew were from media hype. When my sister first got her first Pitbull I threw a fit and we didn’t speak for about 2 weeks since I had sited her as an irresponsible parent for putting her children in danger. Shortly thereafter I fell in love with her dog and watched him grow into a happy playful family pet that thrived when my sis brought their new female APBT home. The only drawback to this story is that they neglected to spay or neuter their family pets and ended up with unplanned puppies. While I loved their dogs I was not sure that I was ready for the social stigma and responsibility that came with owning APBTs myself. I thought long and hard and did much research on how to raise a healthy well balanced Pitbull and decided that I was ready for the challenge. The pups were only a few weeks old at that point and so I made plans to bring my baby home in a month or so, but then everything changed. One day I received a phone call from my sister that her friend who is a breeder had a beautiful 12 week old blue nose girl who was a cuddle bug and just needed a good home with no price tag to me. My sister hesitated a little and then told me that the only thing that might concern me is that her ears had been cropped extremely short. I got nervous. I was already preparing myself for people not openly accepting my dog the way they would a Golden Retriever or a similar breed and had not planned on cropping my puppy’s ears since I know that to some people cropped ears are viewed as part of the fighting culture of the breed. She told me to come look at her and if I didn’t want her she would keep her for her own family. Well, when I looked in those big blue-grey eyes it was all over. I picked her up that same night and we went to the vet the very next day to get her vaccines and seek treatment for her infected ears that had clearly been an at home flop of an ear crop. 

Her ears were heeling quickly and she was a great pup and a star pupil in “puppy kindergarten” but a couple of months after I got her she started losing patches of her coat and began to look like she had polka dots. We made a trip to the vet and she was diagnosed with demodectic mites (a type of non-contagious hereditary mange for those of you who don’t know). She was treated with a topical that stunk to high heaven but has yet to have a flare up since. At the time of that visit my vet also told me that I needed to take my dogs off of Innova Puppy and get them eating a Royal Canin puppy food. At that point the conversation went downhill and I had to resolve to agree to disagree with her opinions on nutrition. 

So that was all taken care of, but in the meantime my sis was having trouble finding homes for all nine of her puppies since not many people are receptive to APBT pups from someone who is not a rescuer or breeder. She had three left and I started contemplating bringing one home with me. The girl that I had picked out before Fancee came along had long since found a loving home but there was a boy that my sister’s kids called Silver that I had become fond of. He was such a cute little fawn and white boy with gold eyes. He came home with me when he was 12 weeks old and Fancee was six months. She and the new pup who I named Sterling were fast friends and good playmates so it was a perfect fit. A few more months went by and everything was great until Sterling started scratching and biting himself to the point where his backside was almost bare. I had started to see fleas on him during bath time even though I was using the monthly flea preventative Vectra 3D that my vet had recommended (I have since researched this product more thoroughly and am quite appalled at the pesticide I have been putting on my babies). I made another trip to the vet and was told that Sterling was allergic to fleas and that as soon as I addressed my flea problem he would be fine. This is the point of my story where I began to get exasperated with veterinary care. I reminded my vet that I was already using the product that she professed to be the best on the market and asked her what else I was supposed to do. She and the staff were convinced that I was making an error in administering the medication and told me to reapply when it was time for his next dose and everything would work out. They then instructed me again on how to use the product and I told them that I had been doing it the same way but my comment was brushed off. The vet also took that opportunity to tell me that my dogs were too old for puppy food and I needed to switch them to an adult food. Since then I have resulted to checking him daily with a flea comb and more frequent baths and he is doing better and his coat is coming back in but I still do not have a permanent resolution. Now on to the next problem!

Last week Fancee started scratching to the point where she was making scabby patches on her skin. She had some large bumps as well so at first I thought that she was getting mosquito bites since I live in a rural area with a large mosquito population and since the Vectra had not been working for fleas I would not be shocked if it was failing in the mosquito department as well. The scratching got worse and oatmeal baths weren’t relieving her at all so I decided to take her to the vet. As I had not been satisfied with my current vets office on my last visit with Sterling I made an appointment with a vet that several of my friends use. The staff was very friendly and the doctor saw her quickly and advised me that she was suffering from an environmental allergy most likely pollen. The vet said that she had scratch to the point of causing a skin infection and prescribed an antibiotic to clear the infection. I was actually quite pleased with the vet until I started to ask her other questions about the health of my dogs in general wanting to get her views on exercise, nutrition and spaying/neutering. When my previous vet had advised me that my dogs needed to be transitioned to adult food I was not happy with her choice of Brand but did start them on Blue Buffalo Wilderness (the chicken formula) and they had been doing well on it. The new vet asked me what I was feeding them and when I told her she asked what puppy food I had fed them as well. When I told her they had been on Innova she asked me if I was veering toward more natural food for my pets. I told her yes and that I try to limit my intake of preservatives and pesticides and want the safe for my animals. I could not believe the look of disgust on her face which was made worse when she actually made a scoffing noise and told me that she wasn’t “into all that natural mumbo jumbo.” She then told me multiple horror stories about digestion and development that she attributes to Blue Buffalo products. She also said that “natural” food is all marketing and that it’s all done for my benefit and not the dogs. I was then told that her picks for food are Royal Canin, Science Diet and Eukanuba and she wanted me to thoroughly research those products. I had been steaming inside but managed to politely tell her that I had thoroughly researched those products and that was the reason I was not feeding it to my animals. She said that while Fancee did appear healthy besides the skin issue she felt that she would do better on a different nutrition plan. 

I feel like I have been doing everything that I can to keep my dogs healthy and now both of these vets are telling me that I am making the wrong food choice and the first once blatantly told me on more than one occasion that my dogs would not reach their full potential and not be healthy if I did not switch their food to Royal Canin. I think I am most offended that I have been treated like I am just randomly picking up some bag of kibble for my dogs without knowing what I am giving them. I did use the grading scales and did fact checks on the foods that I have used and have found them both to be A+ rated. In fact, I am very interested in Raw/Barf diets but with all of the other health concerns that I have had with them as of late I know that I have not been able to educate myself thoroughly and would only want to take on that task when I am fully prepared. I am starting to feel like a doggy mom failure and don’t know what else I can do. I am adamant about not feeding my dogs chemicals as well as not purposely putting pesticides on their bodies but I need some support from a vet who is aligned with my outlook and can’t seem to find one. I have tried to find a holistic vet near me that might be able to guide me if I am making poor decisions but the closest one is over an hour away. That’s not exactly accessible for times of crisis so here I am begging fellow dog lovers to give me whatever guidance you can. I know that you may not be professionals and don’t expect you to be a substitute for a vet but any information that you can give me if you have experienced similar problems or are knowledgeable on the topics and share my view on nasty chemicals your input would be greatly appreciated.

1. What worked for you to fend off flea and pollen/grass allergies?
2. What is the least harsh flea/tick/mosquito preventative that I can use?
3. Am I making bad food choices that could be causing my dogs not to thrive?

Thank you so much for reading all of my babble as I know it has been a chore and thank you in advance for any advice that you can give!

Jessica


----------



## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Fancee&Sterling'sMom said:


> 1. What worked for you to fend off flea and pollen/grass allergies?
> 2. What is the least harsh flea/tick/mosquito preventative that I can use?
> 3. Am I making bad food choices that could be causing my dogs not to thrive?
> 
> ...


Hi Jessica .. Welcome to the site.

1st question: Benedryl works really well for dogs and there allergies 
2nd question: May I suggest you b/c you have a dog that is allergic to fleas you do the following: Frontline (will help kill eggs, sterilize adult fleas & ticks) & Comfortis (kills all adult fleas when they land on the dog) So you are working on killing your infestation in your home as well as keeping them dead on your animal. 
3rd question: May I suggest you either study a RAW diet but if that is something you can not do you can use one of hte following foods
- Orijen 
- Before Grain
- Blue Buffalo Wilderness 
(all have NO grain in it)

- VerUs
- Diamond Naturals
- Taste of the wild
(all have rice/oats but No corn wheat or soy)

if you have more questions please feel free to ask ..


----------



## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

*Welcome!*

:welcome::welcome::doggy: Welcome Jessica!
Glad you figured out how to post. Great introduction and I would like to say I admire you for wanting to educate yourself about pit bulls; I also see you love your baby dogs very much!!!!

I agree with Geisthexe as well.



I give Kangol, the white dog, Benadryl everyday for his allergies and try bathe him often. I also give him vitamin E for his coat. As for flea preventative I have always used Revolution or Advantage because they are both flea/tick/heart worm preventative all in one (don't have to give a separate heart worm pill). I use it for all of my dogs and I have never had fleas. 
I'm not sure about the least harsh but I know thoe above products have always worked for me 

I am new to the RAW diet myself and still transitioning, but have had great guidance thus far. Kangol loves him some raw food much more so than regular dog food. Check out this site, Hare Today Gone Tomorrow to give you in depth information about feeding raw; additionally, you can order from this site if its something you want to try. 

I am looking forward to seeing some pictures of your baby dogs!!! Please don't hesitate asking any questions. There is a lot of great information on this site and great people too. :woof::woof:


----------



## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

I have always used Revolution or Advantage because they are both flea/tick/heart worm preventative all in one (don't have to give a separate heart worm pill). I use it for all of my dogs and I have never had fleas. 

Yes Revolution does kill those but it does not work on the eggs & larva not to mention tapeworms 

Advantage does not do anything but fleas -- adult fleas to say 

Advantix does fleas & ticks 

But both do not kill larva or eggs. 

Not going against what you have stated just letting know know more information


----------



## Fancee&Sterling'sMom (Mar 26, 2010)

*Reply to Deb*

Thanks for your help, Deb! I do have a friend that gives her dog Benedryl and she says it works well also so I am going to give that a try. I have heard good things about Comfortis. I'll be so happy to get rid of those little suckers! I am definitely gonig to read up more on raw diet but it's good to know I have them on the right food for now since they are currently eating Blue Buffalo Wilderness and doing well on it.


----------



## Fancee&Sterling'sMom (Mar 26, 2010)

*Reply to Lauren*

Thanks for the info especially the website link! I know that there is so much for me to learn before I try raw so information is paramount.

PS
I've already posted four or five pics of Sterling and I am adding some of Fancee today!


----------



## Fancee&Sterling'sMom (Mar 26, 2010)

*Heartworm/Fleas/Tics/Tapeworms*

I currently have them on Sentinel for heartworm prevention which I am told kills eggs and larva as well. Is Revolution a better option? I want to make sure that I am covering all of the parasites in my title on the least amount of medication as I can. Would Sentinel,Comfortis and Frontline together probably be the best route to take since I need to address tics as well? Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

geisthexe said:


> I have always used Revolution or Advantage because they are both flea/tick/heart worm preventative all in one (don't have to give a separate heart worm pill). I use it for all of my dogs and I have never had fleas.
> 
> Yes Revolution does kill those but it does not work on the eggs & larva not to mention tapeworms
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info, Deb. Bully the Kid's vet told me similar info on his show last week regarding Revolution and Advantage. I just looked at my flea preventative and for the past 5 months I have been using Advantage Multi. My dogs have never had a flea problem using either Advantage Multi or Revolution so that is why I have continued to use them over the years. I'm going to run this by my vet though and see what he says. Thanks again!!


----------



## melrosdog (Dec 21, 2008)

Advantage Multi® for Dogs (imidacloprid + moxidectin)
Topical Solution
Advantage Multi for Dogs combines 100 percent prevention for heartworm disease, as shown in clinical trials, with the flea control of Advantage®, and the treatment and control of intestinal worms (hookworms, roundworms and whipworms) - all in one, convenient, monthly topical solution.
Key Benefits1:
•100 percent effective at preventing heartworm disease caused by Dirofilaria immitis, as shown in clinical trials.
•100 percent effective treatment and control of hookworm infections caused by Ancylostoma caninum and Uncinaria stenocephala (adults, immature adults and fourth stage larvae).
•Up to 98.2 percent effective treatment and control of roundworm infections caused by Toxocara canis (adults and fourth stage larvae).
•Up to 100 percent effective for the treatment and control roundworm infection caused by Toxascaris leonina (adults).
•Up to 98.6 percent effective treatment and control of whipworm infections caused by Trichuris vulpis (adults).
•Safe and effective, when used topically as directed, for dogs and puppies that are at least seven weeks of age and that weigh at least three


----------



## Angie (Jul 2, 2010)

I would go with grainless food:
Evo, Innova, Karma (all the same company)
Orijen
TOTW (taste of the wild)

For Fleas and stuff I hear feeding your dog garlic works very nicely, but I would do more research for too much garlic can result in death. GL :roll:


----------



## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Advantage period .... In the hospitall I work at we see more folks come in with there allergy dogs and have had problems on it. Some have had reactions to still fighting with fleas. 

Garlic .. YOU do not want to try homopathic remedies unless you know its really going to work. B/c dealing with a allergic dog to fleas can cause more problems 

I am not trying to promote the products like a seller, as this is NOT my intention but what I am doing it giving you the advice my vet give to many of her dogs that are highly allergic to fleas. flea dirt etc. The Frontline & Comfortis combo really does help to stop the fleas in there tracks so your dog will be a much happier dog. 

I am all about homopathic & feeding a RAW diet to my dogs but since I have moved to Missouri we cant stop the fleas ... so I have also put my dogs on Frontline & Comfortis I do not have a flea problem but my two roomies dogs do b/c they both started using Advantage. 

JMO


----------



## Fancee&Sterling'sMom (Mar 26, 2010)

Angie said:


> I would go with grainless food:
> Evo, Innova, Karma (all the same company)
> Orijen
> TOTW (taste of the wild)


I agree! They did eat Innova Puppy when they were younger and we transitioned to Evo because I wanted to stay with the same company but it was a little overwhelming to Fancee's tummy and her stool never adjusted so we tried Blue Buffalo Wilderness which is also a grainless kibble and they are doing well and growing like weeds:woof:


----------



## Fancee&Sterling'sMom (Mar 26, 2010)

*Reply to Deb*

I know you are not trying to give me the bait on the products, Deb! You seem to know your stuff and I definitely appreciate all of your advice. I have two more weeks until I can administer another dose of preventative and I will try the Coomfortis and Frontline together. Does the vet that you work for favor Sentinel or Revolution for heartworm preventative? I read on some of the earlier posts that Revolution also protects against other types of worms which would be very useful to me since I am in a rural area and other animals tend to roam my property occasionally. I was wondering how effective it is since no vet has ever mentioned it to me.


----------



## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Keep in mind, most vets are not nutritionists and many of them are actually paid to promote certain feeds, like Science Diet so I would take your vets suggestions with a grain of salt. You should use whatever feed seems to be working for you and if you think it is making your dogs' skin/coat better or worse then stop or build on that. Sounds like you are going to try and go with raw, which is what I have read is probably best for a dog with skin issues/allergies. 

And Deb mentioned in her post that TOTW has grains, but this is not correct, I feed it to my dogs and it is a grain free food and my dogs thrive on it! I discovered it when searching for a grain free food for my dog Loki who developed corn allergies at about 6mos. Now we feed it to all 3 of our dogs (APBT, pit mix and border collie mix) and they all not only do very well on it and absolutely love the food.


----------



## Fancee&Sterling'sMom (Mar 26, 2010)

*Reply to Carriana*

Yes, I read some posts about what others have had to say about their vet's views on nutrition and I guess I may have been a little harsh on them considering the source, but I was just so frustrated. I mean to me nutrition is a primary health issue and on a moral level I would think that an animal health care provider would be compelled to promote the food that has the best nutritional value for the animal. Anyway, I digress. We all know that I am frustrated. lol

I have heard good things about TOTW as well and it was on my short list after Evo (which didn't work for us) but I couldn't find a local carrier so ended up going with Blue Buffalo. Now that I've calmed down a little I have been researching raw more and found a lot of useful information here so I probably will try to start that in the next month or so.


----------



## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Fancee&Sterling'sMom said:


> I know you are not trying to give me the bait on the products, Deb! You seem to know your stuff and I definitely appreciate all of your advice. I have two more weeks until I can administer another dose of preventative and I will try the Coomfortis and Frontline together. Does the vet that you work for favor Sentinel or Revolution for heartworm preventative? I read on some of the earlier posts that Revolution also protects against other types of worms which would be very useful to me since I am in a rural area and other animals tend to roam my property occasionally. I was wondering how effective it is since no vet has ever mentioned it to me.


All of you heartworm prevention do other worms all basically the same worms but Iverhart does the other worms the other products do and it also does tapeworms.

We sell both of those products but the vet does not dislike or like one the most... it depends on the owner and the dog itself what it system can take.

About the TOTW I stand corrected I put it in the wrong section when I posted. My fault. Thanks for correcting me. 

I myself do Heartguard & Frontline.

About VETS not knowing much about nutrition that is highly correct. They only get 16 hours of nutrition in school then they get additional hours with companies selling there products to them. 
I do not recommend even at work the ones the vet has in her hospital. I have changed our clients to better dog food or raw diet. My vet allows me to b/c of my background in nutrition if they need it b/c nothing else has worked.


----------



## Fancee&Sterling'sMom (Mar 26, 2010)

geisthexe said:


> All of you heartworm prevention do other worms all basically the same worms but Iverhart does the other worms the other products do and it also does tapeworms.


Thanks for the information on the heartworm preventative options! It's definitely something for me to read up on a little more and make an educated decision since I had previously only been given one option.


geisthexe said:


> About VETS not knowing much about nutrition that is highly correct. They only get 16 hours of nutrition in school then they get additional hours with companies selling there products to them.
> I do not recommend even at work the ones the vet has in her hospital. I have changed our clients to better dog food or raw diet. My vet allows me to b/c of my background in nutrition if they need it b/c nothing else has worked.


That's great that you work with such an open minded vet who will let you contribute in your area of expertise. Awesome for the patients! I have been consumed with getting more information on raw since I started reading the postings. I know that I will wait at least a month or a month and half so that I am prepared for the task before I start, but right now I am trying to learn more about the difference in Barf and Prey Model. I know the literal differences but I would like to know more about what is thought to be the benefits of one over the other before making a decision on which method I try.


----------



## rebeccayhb (Jul 23, 2010)

just noticed you're in fort worth! we're in dallas  hey neighbor 

I'm no pro here, just passing by and picking up info hope you don't mind!

I myself have had flea problems and we treated the back yard first, then I slip a few drops of apple cider vinegar in her drinking water..seems to be working so far! but I'm going to get her on advantage since I've read some good articles about it..i don't know, advantage multi is flea ticks and heartworm all in one meds, gonna try it first see how it works!


----------



## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

rebeccayhb said:


> just noticed you're in fort worth! we're in dallas  hey neighbor
> 
> I'm no pro here, just passing by and picking up info hope you don't mind!
> 
> I myself have had flea problems and we treated the back yard first, then I slip a few drops of apple cider vinegar in her drinking water..seems to be working so far! but I'm going to get her on advantage since I've read some good articles about it..i don't know, advantage multi is flea ticks and heartworm all in one meds, gonna try it first see how it works!


If you have CATS you can NOT use any Advantage flea & tick product (you can just the flea one) b/c it will make a CAT very ill or kill it.


----------



## rebeccayhb (Jul 23, 2010)

geisthexe said:


> If you have CATS you can NOT use any Advantage flea & tick product (you can just the flea one) b/c it will make a CAT very ill or kill it.


no my husband is a dog person, i don't think I'll ever be able to have a cat lol


----------



## Fancee&Sterling'sMom (Mar 26, 2010)

rebeccayhb said:


> just noticed you're in fort worth! we're in dallas  hey neighbor
> 
> I'm no pro here, just passing by and picking up info hope you don't mind!


Yay for Texas girls! lol:clap:


----------

