# Working bulldog ancestor



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Many claim this is one of the most ancient breeds of dogs. Literature shows the ancestor of this dog was brought from Spain to American and Latin American during the discovery of the New World. What a beauty of dog 
their use now is mainly for hog hunt and some guarding of the flock. Now this is only a residue of the original specimen produced in Spain over 600 years ago but I cannot stop drooling over the beauty of these dogs.






Enjoy :woof:


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

SO THATS where bernie came from  lol do you have any more info on these dogs? They are nice looking.


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## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

LMAO
Argos got so excited watching these dogs run around, that he has broken into the most violent bout of hiccups I've heard from him in weeks.

And those are definitely some nice looking dogs.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> SO THATS where bernie came from  lol do you have any more info on these dogs? They are nice looking.


What would you like to know =) I have been reading up on these guys for almost a year. I joined a forum from Spain and I have soaking up in the beauty of the breed and I hopefully get in touch with owners from there.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

IDK, i just like reading and learning lol. Anything you've got! Any notable dogs in the last 50 years? EDIT: the standard?


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Here is the generic Standard:

Standard
Breed standard written by Javier Parra Gordillo and Diego Bermudez Aguiar, breeders of Alano Español.

General description
A hunting dog, straight shaped, rough and well-proportioned. Brachycephalic form of head, squared in appearance and with a serious expression. Its body structure is graceful; its movements are agile, and almost feline. The bite is very strong and firm. It has a serious and resolute character, and shows distrust toward strangers.

The breed originated in the Iberian Peninsula; there are references of its existence dating to the 14th century. Possibly it is descended from the hunting dogs brought by the barbaric tribes after the fall of the Roman Empire.

Character and faculties
The Spanish Alano traditionally has been used in three basic functions:
1) Herding of cattle.
2) Big-game hunting.
3) Guarding and defense.

In all of these functions the Alano depends on its most outstanding characteristics: its forceful bite. The grip of the Spanish Alano is known and praised since ancient times. The dog bites with its whole jaw, extending the grip back to the molars. The grip is very steady and is maintained for a long period.

Its character is very serious and reliable. It is not tolerant with strangers who are watched with suspicion. It shifts to attack with little outward sign of excitation. When biting wild or brave animals it seeks specific spots of these beasts such as the ears or snout.

Its psychological development is slow as it does not achieve maturity until it becomes twoyears old. Before reaching that age the dog may show signs of insecurity, and it isnot advisable to try to force the development of its character. On achieving maturity the dog doesn’t fear aything, and reacts with self-assurance when threatened. With its master it acts submissively and with willingness to be trained.

Morphology:
Height and weight: Males 58-63 cm. Females 55-60 cm. Weight between 35 kg. and 45 kg.
Note: There should be some degree of harmony between the weight and size, allowing variations of 2 cm. from the sizes shown provided that the dog is well proportioned.

Scull: Brachicephalic in form, large and bulky, with prominent androunded frontal temples, and emphasized frontal nasal depression. The skull/face ratio is 65/35. The temple muscles are well developed.

Face and muzzle: Shorter than the skull, very wide and powerful, and usually comprising about 35% of the total length of the head.

Eyes: Appreciably separated, slightly ovaled, and with a serious expression. Clear hazel or yellowish in color depending on the color of the cape, producing the characteristic expression of the breed. Noticeable Zygomatic facial arches.

Ears: With medium insertion and usually cut back from their base; small in size and slightly rounded at the tip. If they are not cut, they are of medium size and carried folded over the face. 


Jaws: Strong and sound teeth, the incisors should be well aligned and the canines short and wide and well separated from each other. The bite is scissor-like with a slight prognathism allowed, of not more than 2 mm.

Nose: Large, wide and with open orifices (nostrils).

Skin: Adhered to the muscles. Slightly hanging lower lip. Some wrinkles appear in the forehead when the dog is attentive. Black pigmenation of the nostrils and eyelids.

Neck: Very strong and powerful, short and wide, with a slight double-chin that should never be extreme.

Torso Rib Cage: Arched, not cylindrical, dropping to the level of the elbows. Back and withers strong and solid.

Backbone Outkine: Straight or slightly ascending.

Brisket: Medium wide and deep, very muscular.

Shoulders: Well developed with large powerful shoulder-blades, providing an ample width for the insertion of the front extremities.

Abdominal Region: Retracted belly without reaching a greyhound-like appearance.

Croup: Wide and moderately short. Slightly inclined.

Tail: Medium at birth, thick at the base, it gradually tapers, thinning at the tip. The length reaches the dog’s breech. It is carried high, arcing slightly toward the rump without becoming curled.

Extremities forearms: Long, straight and quite vertical, viewed from the front or side. Strong-boned and well developed. Long, inclined upper arms. Compact paws with firm fingers in the form of cat paws.

Extremities hind legs: Strong, with well-developed muscles. Quite vertical and correctly angled. Breech is moderately high and solid. Paws with same characteristics as the front paws, do not reveal salient bones.

Movement
Walking: When stepping the weight is carried by the forward train giving the appearance of a chained movement, more like that of a feline than a canine. The head is carried low.

Trotting: Ample and long, with a style similar to walking.

Galloping: Rapid and elastic with considerable stretching and flexing of the torso. Very fast.

Skin:
Adhered to the body but rather elastic, somewhat looser at the neck and head.

Hair: Short and dense, rather thick, without undergrowth.

Color: The following colors are acceptable:
- Tigered and lion-like in all variations.
- Black and tigered.
- Wolf-like.
- White, spotted with the above colors.
The lower legs as well as the chest, neck and muzzle may be white.

Defects 
Slight
- Prognathism over 2 mm.provided that the canines remain interlocked.
- Missing up to two first molars. 2 premolares.
- Heavy appearance.

Serious
- Excessive prognathism (over 5 mm.).
- Missing more than two first molars.
- Lack of front nasal depression.
- Unsociable character.
- Salient leg bones.
Very serious
Ineptitude. In general, lack of reproduction
- Long hair.
- Abnormal colors.
- Weak character.
- Mastin-like structure.
- Greyhound-like structure.
- Twisted mouth.
- Castrated dogs, or having a displaced or missing testicle.

And in general all characteristics that deviate from those described in the breed standard.

NOTE: This breed standard refers to the type of Alano used fundamentally for big-game hunting and herding cattle in the field over long distances. It should be noted that in letters there are frequently instances of the type used traditionally for short-distance chases in bull-rings, slaughter-houses and as property watchdogs: they are generally smaller dogs of heavier build, usually with short muzzles and powerful heads.

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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Now I am talking to sources from Spain because I want to know the deal about as far as temperament. 

I've heard a few different opinions, some stating that these are true pack hunters and as long as they are socialized with the pack from young they will get along quite well. This breed is also from what I have read is bred for work and performance. They do not breed for looks or exageration of traits, if the dog can't work it won't make it. They have amazing jaw power for catching, intense pain threshold and in a sense they will die trying to hold the boar for the hunter. They are also extremely fast and have amazing levels of stamina, they are not the same as a PRESA CANARIO and they are built light under 100 pounds so they can perform real work. Most specimens are leggy and have cat like features, so they can have fluid movement =)


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Wow, sounds like some serious kinda dogs! 

So from what I'm reading, the dogs are not trusting of new people...borderline insecure. 

Would you say these dogs are good for a multi-dog home situation?

EDIT: just saw your second post. I was most happy to see in the video the way they are able to move. 

Are they tollerant of all climate types?


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Here is a pair of them, they look awesome I love the tri colored type.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

When I see outstanding working breeds like this, I wonder why we think we can do it better.. ALL the bandogs and all that, (snickers) ITs all already been done... GREAT POST, alot of dogs between France and Spain are ancient and awesome. I know a collector in Nowata, Oklahoma who tests different old catch dog breeds from over seas and compares them in Hog hunting with game bred APBTs. I know a guy in Wainae who does the same. I never paid much attention, wrongly assumed your dog was a bandog, he's an Alano Tarantos? Isn't there political arguing between function and the name of the Tarantos dogs, much like the Presa Canarios? I searched all over Spain and France, some Itallian kennel sites as well; before settling with my Jocko dog back in 2000. Just decided I don't want a man eater like that, incredible dogs none the less... INCREDIBLE.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Wow, sounds like some serious kinda dogs!
> 
> So from what I'm reading, the dogs are not trusting of new people...borderline insecure.
> 
> Would you say these dogs are good for a multi-dog home situation?


I have read many different profiles on them, but I am getting close to the real source, not wikipedia or any regular dog site.

Right now I don't have 100 percent confirmation about their level of agression towards other dogs, I know as far as human agression, they are not going to let anyone in your property or act like a pitbull smothering strange humans with kisses. They bond with the family and that is it..

Now to put in contrast I got actual confirmation from a breeder of Dogo Argentinos from Montevideo in Argentina, and he told me that a true Dogo should not be dog agressive, they usually hunt in three. Usually 2 males and one female or two females and one male. The only reason I mention this is because many websites advertise the Dogo as dog agressive and vicious so to speak. The aim of the Dogo was to be a pack hunter and you cannot have a unpredictable DA dog and make him work in a pack.

The Alano is similar but smaller and aimed at different game, but still hunting in a pack. Although now days many Dogos are used for hog hunting mainly as opossed to cougars,jaguars and bears originally. So this leads me to believe that the dogs could work in a multidog household if they are properly socialized and stimulated. BUt once again I am waiting for answers from the people in Spain.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> When I see outstanding working breeds like this, I wonder why we think we can do it better.. ALL the bandogs and all that, (snickers) ITs all already been done... GREAT POST, alot of dogs between France and Spain are ancient and awesome. I know a collector in Nowata, Oklahoma who tests different old catch dog breeds from over seas and compares them in Hog hunting with game bred APBTs. I know a guy in Wainae who does the same. I never paid much attention, wrongly assumed your dog was a bandog, he's an Alano Tarantos? Isn't there political arguing between function and the name of the Tarantos dogs, much like the Presa Canarios? I searched all over Spain and France, some Itallian kennel sites as well; before settling with my Jocko dog back in 2000. Just decided I don't want a man eater like that, incredible dogs none the less... INCREDIBLE.


Thanks for sharing your knowledge =) I don't know if you are asking me if my dog is an Alano but if you are my dog is not anywhere near it lol my dog is a Petbull crossed with an American Bully. I think from Bully side he got a bunch of mastiff features but in now way or shape my dog comes close to any of these wonderful working dogs.

I wouldn't necessarly call them man eaters, they are 80 pound catch dogs, they are supossed to be extremely stable and confident and not overly agressive. Again this is a reconstruction of the ancient alaunts but some of the blood in the recreation still contains strands of the original since they used native working dogs to bring it back. Many claim that is a designer mutt, but the specimens I have found are in my opinion nothing close to that. I don't see exagerated features and their bodies are in perfect balance. Almost streamlined to follow a function, I am sure there are examples of show dogs that have ruined the original form but there are still working specimens.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I'm getting the itch for a large dog definitely a guardian type... the dogs I have now are the smallest dogs I've ever contemplated keeping. I am definitely not going to be getting one in the next year or two, but it's something that has been crossing my mind more and more recently. I loved my bullmastiff, and I loved my collies... I like the bullmastiff for the guarding aspect and stable temperament, but i loved the collies because they were just so quick to learn and their speed. If I could just figure out the breed of dog that meshes everything that I love about all of my dogs I would be tickled to death.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> When I see outstanding working breeds like this, I wonder why we think we can do it better.. ALL the bandogs and all that, (snickers) ITs all already been done... GREAT POST, alot of dogs between France and Spain are ancient and awesome. I know a collector in Nowata, Oklahoma who tests different old catch dog breeds from over seas and compares them in Hog hunting with game bred APBTs. I know a guy in Wainae who does the same. I never paid much attention, wrongly assumed your dog was a bandog, he's an Alano Tarantos? Isn't there political arguing between function and the name of the Tarantos dogs, much like the Presa Canarios? I searched all over Spain and France, some Itallian kennel sites as well; before settling with my Jocko dog back in 2000. Just decided I don't want a man eater like that, incredible dogs none the less... INCREDIBLE.


I always wonder why people who want a big tough looking dog doesnt go with this type of breed but have to ruin a perfectly good breed of dog like the APBT I mean really these guys could pass as bullies or big pit bulls.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

gamer said:


> I always wonder why people who want a big tough looking dog doesnt go with this type of breed but have to ruin a perfectly good breed of dog like the APBT I mean really these guys could pass as bullies or big pit bulls.


The Alanos cannot pass for Bullies or big pitbulls, they are totally different breed. If anything their ancestor which the Alano shares a little blood of was used to produce bulldogs, wardogs and pitdogs.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> I'm getting the itch for a large dog definitely a guardian type... the dogs I have now are the smallest dogs I've ever contemplated keeping. I am definitely not going to be getting one in the next year or two, but it's something that has been crossing my mind more and more recently. I loved my bullmastiff, and I loved my collies... I like the bullmastiff for the guarding aspect and stable temperament, but i loved the collies because they were just so quick to learn and their speed. If I could just figure out the breed of dog that meshes everything that I love about all of my dogs I would be tickled to death.


I know what you mean, I am getting another one with a year or two and I still can't decide. Honestly these guys aren't that big, Bernie is 80 pounds and females are around that range or even a little smaller. I am itching to get another one but the time can't come soon enough, but I guess this time will be good read and research. I gotta post some pics of these guys they are truly a beauty look at and to watch them move.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> The Alanos cannot pass for Bullies or big pitbulls, they are totally different breed. If anything their ancestor which the Alano shares a little blood of was used to produce bulldogs, wardogs and pitdogs.


I was saying the looks of some of these breeds could please the people who want big pit bulls, rather then ruining a breed to make big tough looking dogs.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

gamer said:


> I was saying the looks of some of these breeds could please the people who want big pit bulls, rather then ruining a breed to make big tough looking dogs.


I will be the first one to admit that a gamegred APBT is too much for me, too much energy and it needs extreme levels of exercise to make it happy. I can careless about the DA since it was part of its existance but I don't have the area to house a dog like that and I wouldn't want to make it miserable in a small yard.

However, having a giant looking bootleg pitbull is not what attracted me to a cross like the one I have. In fact, I didn't crop ears because I did not want the attention. I just wanted an athletic dog that was content with moderate exercise and that could get along or at least ignore dogs in public. Now with that said, look at the female bellow she is a beauty


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> I will be the first one to admit that a gamegred APBT is too much for me, too much energy and it needs extreme levels of exercise to make it happy. I can careless about the DA since it was part of its existance but I don't have the area to house a dog like that and I wouldn't want to make it miserable in a small yard.
> 
> However, having a giant looking bootleg pitbull is not what attracted me to a cross like the one I have. In fact, I didn't crop ears because I did not want the attention. I just wanted an athletic dog that was content with moderate exercise and that could get along or at least ignore dogs in public. Now with that said, look at the female bellow she is a beauty


I am sorry I was not talking about you in my posts


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

The way I understand what your saying Gamer is, These dogs in America, judged by the layman, would think this is a giant pit bull, simply because of Giant Bloodlines, Whopper Bloodlines, and Mammoth Bloodlines, You got guys breeding the monsters all together and they are considered pit bulls by the public who don't know a pit bull should be no more than 75lbs(kinda like those which is the pitbull picture finders). Historically the pit dogs that exceeded 80 were mastiffs.. SO like the presa attack first two weeks those presas ate that lady and we were hearing about pit bull attack, finally truth come out but people were already on the bandwagon. I LIKE THESE DOGS from spain they are SUPERB at Land guardianship, and will not let a stranger just loaf about. The man in nowata took all those bandogges together except whopper, but what he got was a giant pit bull in looks without having any pit bull in it  the dogs were dangerous true KEMPFER dogs, Dangerous dogs, dogs or people were not safe outside his presence. Hes the guy that showed me Whopper dogs carry hereditary mange, most all females have "skin allergies" that is cured just like Demodec. Anyway I STILL love the POST and the DOGS I like Boers and Tosas, the cade bou, and the Alanos dogs.. IF I wanted a BIG property dog I would choose between 3 of those 4, the Cade Bou is a dog of prey very much like the APBT in personality. IF you get one of these SPANISH dogs, you'll definitely have to show him off  I know you would be the kind of person to be like, THIS IS NOT A PIT BULL... Good convo, ya'll got goin on here.. I would prefer people get these breeds that look like pits rather than breed all these dam* bandogges, from pit Xs.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

gamer said:


> I am sorry I was not talking about you in my posts


I know you weren't but I wanted to speak out about why I chose a dog that was not the apbt but looked similar but much larger. I just felt like admitting why I chose something else. Other guys want a big bad dog to look tough lol so I just wanted you to know the way I think


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> The way I understand what your saying Gamer is, These dogs in America, judged by the layman, would think this is a giant pit bull, simply because of Giant Bloodlines, Whopper Bloodlines, and Mammoth Bloodlines, You got guys breeding the monsters all together and they are considered pit bulls by the public who don't know a pit bull should be no more than 75lbs(kinda like those which is the pitbull picture finders). Historically the pit dogs that exceeded 80 were mastiffs.. SO like the presa attack first two weeks those presas ate that lady and we were hearing about pit bull attack, finally truth come out but people were already on the bandwagon. I LIKE THESE DOGS from spain they are SUPERB at Land guardianship, and will not let a stranger just loaf about. The man in nowata took all those bandogges together except whopper, but what he got was a giant pit bull in looks without having any pit bull in it  the dogs were dangerous true KEMPFER dogs, Dangerous dogs, dogs or people were not safe outside his presence. Hes the guy that showed me Whopper dogs carry hereditary mange, most all females have "skin allergies" that is cured just like Demodec. Anyway I STILL love the POST and the DOGS I like Boers and Tosas, the cade bou, and the Alanos dogs.. IF I wanted a BIG property dog I would choose between 3 of those 4, the Cade Bou is a dog of prey very much like the APBT in personality. IF you get one of these SPANISH dogs, you'll definitely have to show him off  I know you would be the kind of person to be like, THIS IS NOT A PIT BULL... Good convo, ya'll got goin on here.. I would prefer people get these breeds that look like pits rather than breed all these dam* bandogges, from pit Xs.


Ohh I see why you guys were getting at lol sorry about that. I would love to own kne of these guys but much research would have to be done before. My brother owned an American bulldog and I liked the level of energy and confidence. I guess we will see there's a lot of history behind these guys an like the apbt it has to be respected and understood before amount a decision to own one.


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