# Easty Westy Feet & Swayback.



## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

In your opinion:
Acceptable or Deformities?


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

it terms of what, lol. a pet? a working dog? a show dog?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I hate easty westy and big splayed out feet one of the worst faults in my book , would keep me from buying that dog , but to each there own. The sway back is just ugly.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

I think it's deformities. I hate seeing dogs with turned out feet and horrible sway backs, splayed yucky feet, and people praise it saying what a BA dog it is. Makes me sick, so sad to see dogs that way.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

I hate the term easty westy. It is called toeing in or toeing out . In a pet it is what it is, but it is not acceptable for a show dog to have this issue for me personally; however per ABKC standard it is not a fault as long as it isn't more than 45 degrees. Each registry has a standard that addresses this. It is a fault, but not a deformity unless it impacts quality of life, which I have seen a few in the bully world like this, but nothing I condone and definitely wouldn't own.

Sway back is a major fault because it usually means the dog is high in the rear, but unless it prevents a dog from leading a quality life it isn't a deformity, just a fault.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Easty Westy no good, no matter the degree. Can hinder the performance greatly and cause shoulder/leg problems later down the road.. Sway back more or less the same however a high rear can be beneficial.. In a working dog.. With zero draw backs so long as the rear doesn't sit so high as to structure weakness..

In game dogs, Chinaman, Q.O.H, Black Mup, Badger... High rears, straight legs, both.. List can go on, many excellent producers and many hard mouthed, quick, feared in the [] dogs have had poor rears by registry standard.. Poor rear doesn't automatically equal poor structure, for instance Kilie has a high rear..excellent performer.. Many inbred hounds in the past have had semi - decent to poor rears, one had what to be considered a poor chest, poor rear..lots of faults but solid performer and bar none flame throwin bomb..

Show dogs? You want that registry talk to a T... Dot your i's as well and be sure to evolve with the forever changing standards as time trots along..


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> Easty Westy no good, no matter the degree. Can hinder the performance greatly and cause shoulder/leg problems later down the road.. Sway back more or less the same however a high rear can be beneficial.. In a working dog.. With zero draw backs so long as the rear doesn't sit so high as to structure weakness..
> 
> In game dogs, Chinaman, Q.O.H, Black Mup, Badger... High rears, straight legs, both.. List can go on, many excellent producers and many hard mouthed, quick, feared in the [] dogs have had poor rears by registry standard.. Poor rear doesn't automatically equal poor structure, for instance Kilie has a high rear..excellent performer.. Many inbred hounds in the past have had semi - decent to poor rears, one had what to be considered a poor chest, poor rear..lots of faults but solid performer and bar none flame throwin bomb..
> 
> Show dogs? You want that registry talk to a T... Dot your i's as well and be sure to evolve with the forever changing standards as time trots along..


Good post. Take a look at some old, and not so old, pictures of game bulldogs and notice the toeing out, etc. Pretty didn't mean anything in the box...and these were solid dogs that no one would have problems breeding to.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Either is okay in moderation in my book like KM said as long as it doesnt't effect performance. IMO I would prefer a slightly toeing dog over a sway back. To me if the back actually sways then the back end is to high. There for the is streight making the the back end weak. A dog with a weak back end is going th have problems getting out of a corner. 

Also spending time learning from ADBA judges. The ADBA give most points for back end. They say it is where the.power comes from. Where as a slight inward toe just means the dogs elbow come out. A good bulldog who come to mind that had crazy out at the elbow. Is one of the greatest, Barracuda. So it is hard for me to say the toes out or in is that big of a deal.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

I wasn't asking for myself;
Just wondering.

I own a game dog as all you know,
But I have noticed Toeing In & Out are VERY prominant in Bullys and wanted to see what you guys thought about it. It personally looks horrible to me.

I posted about this on Rednose Nation and got blasted about how "I shouldn't be talking poop while I own a dog with a undershot jaw!" lol. I really DO NOT like that forum,irrogant jerks all piled in one area. But I seen MANY pics lately of dogs with these faults and just wanted opinions 


I am glad I am not the only one who finds it ugly.


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Is it a deformation? 
I tend to ask myself, "Do you see this in the wild? And if so do they survive?"

Edit:
I would call it a faulty gene, as by definition a deformitiy is a genetic mutation (random gene mutation) and Easty/Westy has been around for awhile. Technically everything is a mutation, as natural selection culled the bad mutations and left to good ones. 

Since in dogs we are pretty much the only means of natural selection for them other than severely life threatening things, I'd say to S/N and not breed dogs with the faults. 

With sway back, I agree with KM.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

I haven't seen too many wolves but I have seen some and every wolf I have seen is toeing out (lions as well). Idk if that says anything thou...


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

awwww poor O'Malley I hate crap talkers! like jeesh you are just asking not judging people's pets!!


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

ames said:


> awwww poor O'Malley I hate crap talkers! like jeesh you are just asking not judging people's pets!!


Exactly; I wasn't saying any specific dogs. & I also blasted him with the fact O'Malley is in fact, FIXED. Jerks. lol. I'm glad people on here are down to earth unlike other forums.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I don't care if its game bred or bully its crap IMO.... If you have a pet that is like that no big deal, I have had my own share of pets only a mother could love lol, but it is something that should be bred away from and I have seen excellent looking dogs in both the game and bully area so their is no need to settle for seriously flawed dogs.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

I wasn't saying it isn't seen in the games. 
& I agree cull out those who have it,
from breeding atleast.

I am not knowledged in bullys due to my background being amongst game bred so I didn't know if it was accepting amongst bullys due to seeing it so much/


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

depends who you ask in the bully world lol, some like to call it "freak" but IMO its nasty and shouldnt be seen in breeding programs.. would help if registries had rules against it rather then just allowing it, you allow a small flaw people push the limits.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

toes in.. terrier toes out bulldog .. undershot jaw, snipey noses... boxed muzzled.. short muzzle... these are part of the original line bred traits the derrived the terrier out of the pit bulldog of the 19th century in England. 

EXTREMITIES of any of that are deformities if they prevent the dog from performing the function of which it earns its name..... Bulldog, Terrier, Bandog etc.. 

Its the Bull and Terrier not because they're both mixed in; its because its the original source of which they both strain out  just follow a colby or lighnter pedigree to the near 1790s and you'll see what I mean... the function describes the dog and both the original terrier and bulldog come from the pit bulldog now your game bred APBTs. 

If people would quit going by fickle registery standards and keep to tradition we wouldnt have so much confusion. .. still some but not much when you have 
"Game Bull Terrier" "Game Pit Terrier" "Pit Bulldog" "Game Bulldog" advertisements and all of em are colby advertisements in different areas depending on what they called the dog... you see all back to one source.. which backs the statement by Dieter Flieg that the first terriers were inbred from Pit Bulldogs... Colby grew up in the ship yard his uncle owned a ship you can follow a Colby pedigree and it tells the history of the breed right there... its the slang terms and the sway of propaganda that determine who thinks what and how and it goes to the core.


Deformities are undesired traits that cause or impend harm or damage to the function and mobility of the so desired critter that is or has been bred...


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sucker For A Rednose said:


> I wasn't asking for myself;
> Just wondering.
> 
> I own a game dog as all you know,
> ...


Now this post caught my attention as you call your hound a game dog.. Tested and proven? Or are you referring more game bred? Just wanted to clarify as by the only standard that matters nobody has a game dog based on how they are bred, a game dog is only that of proven results by only one true method that has stood ground since perfection surrounding the [].

Now not to knock your hound or anything but just wanted to clarify as some people believe they have a game dog based on a ped (in any form) or this that and the other without properly testing all properties that genetically make up such.. In other words...

Bred down from game dogs - "Game Bred"
Tested and proven - Game Dog

Its all in what your into, show folk obviously have a different standard compared to working folk. Just the nature of the beast.. Show folk would find a game dog with faults useless.. Working folk would find a registry standard perfection that can't work, cur, etc.. useless.. All in who you ask.

This is a good topic though, has the opportunity to provide good information for those that don't know.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks for the post KM;
I guess I would call him Game Bred.
He is Sarona,Hemphill,Camelot.

He is a VERY high drive dog and goes hard on the flirt and spring pole.
Also catches squirrels for a passion and recently some light WP work.

I don't think that is enough to consider him a Game Dog under your explanation, he is no cure though.
Boy thinks he is made of bricks,
Sometimes I think he may as well be LOL.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

........Hold right there; gotta put the kettle on..


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> ........Hold right there; gotta put the kettle on..


lol Ima get my Vodka and sour out now.....


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Sucker For A Rednose said:


> I wasn't saying it isn't seen in the games.
> & I agree cull out those who have it,
> from breeding atleast.
> 
> I am not knowledged in bullys due to my background being amongst game bred so I didn't know if it was accepting amongst bullys due to seeing it so much/


I don't find it acceptable and most bullies that are and have one foot facing Brooklyn and the other foot facing LA are definitely not dogs bred to the standard and most of the people who have those dogs don't show. What you see on the Internet regarding the American Bully isn't all that there is to the breed. If you look at the ABKC CH and GR CH list in Bullies 101 you will see that the majority of the dogs are bred to the standard and overall they are nice dogs. I didn't say all were but MOST of them are.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> I don't find it acceptable and most bullies that are and have one foot facing Brooklyn and the other foot facing LA are definitely not dogs bred to the standard and most of the people who have those dogs don't show. What you see on the Internet regarding the American Bully isn't all that there is to the breed. If you look at the ABKC CH and GR CH list in Bullies 101 you will see that the majority of the dogs are bred to the standard and overall they are nice dogs. I didn't say all were but MOST of them are.


I have nothing against bullies,
I think they are awesome.
Just never personally owned one,
so lots to be learned on my behalf about them 

I have always had APBT's


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Camelot is not an APBT bloodline .... Do you have a pedigree on your dog?


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## irishstaff2011 (Aug 3, 2011)

sway back is just plain ugly!!!


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Camelot is not an APBT bloodline .... Do you have a pedigree on your dog?


I will dig up his pedigree, I have moved two times since buying him.
I'll try and rumage through my paperwork files this weekend and scan it.
He came from Bryant's Red Devils in GA.

Bryant's Red Devils Breeders of Traditional Red Nose American Pit Bull Terrier


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

He is Bullseye x Dixieland Delight


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

they're all bulldogs or bandogs depending on size and function.. what are you breeding is the question we all have to ask ourselves; are we breeding APBTs (bulldogs) or are we breeding something else... dangit ... all out of crayons... 

.................... Thread Jack - break yo'self foo'....................


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

.....................History Lesson.......................... from the Crayola Mtn.

The undershot jaw in your dog comes from the whopper in camelot.. Whopper was cross from an extinct strain of DDB that Eddington had access to and rung in as APBT.








1892 DDB








last of the pure DDB, from a doubled back source..( looks at the slight undershot jaw in both specimen)

Douge De Bordeaux almost went extinct and because the English Bull Mastiff came from breeding a Dogue De Bordeaux to the Bulldog note pic of bulldog:








note the TRUE bulldog on the right, this was crossed with the original DDB up top black and white pic, to get the bullmastiff. So to save the DDB they pulled in some of the best English Bullmastiff stock.. See how they created a whopper dog a milenia ago ... ?? the original English Bull Mastiff.

Eddington knew alot about genetics and perhaps history too, and his strain of whopper were unbeatable freakshow dogs, crossed out with lightner dogs, some tonka, and even dogs like CH Brutus:








went in the mix.. everyone suspects american bulldog cross but that is WRONG. Besides that BACK THEN American Bulldogs were just INBRED APBTs to be large, and they were creating a new breed called American Bulldog.. note: Colby and Stratton... thus why some of those old dogs of colby's and others are in all pedigrees from Staffordshires (the REAL bulldog source), American Staffordshires, American Pit Bull Terriers (the REAL bulldog alive today), American Bulldogs, Alapaha Bulldogs, Catahoula Bulldogs, Boston Bull Terriers (todays boston terrier) .. Do you see how those dogs are all named for location and function?

Todays whopper breeders dont really have an idea of how to get the most of the stock and what they end up with is a big mess. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [45796] :: PETERSON'S SHERMAN TANK There are some really good ones GREAT catch dogs and the epitimy of the best bandog.

.................................... so thus Camelot and any other whopper dogs are bandogs unless someone has kept the game bred bulldogs in strong enough that they are bulldogs and thus why I myself had whopper dogs bred down to 35lb range back in 2002/03 and the first tri color bulldogs i've seen outside of the books and pics of old dogmens dogs.
















Note that Buddy @ 33-35lbs (black,tan, white) here was 4years old and the pup was 4 months old... 
You see this is a whopper strain that can still be called APBT and carry the ADBA papers with no remorse as they are small and still provide multiple functions as the breed is so known for.

Most whopper breeders keep stacking whopper and if they cross out they cross out to an OFRN strain of some sort cause thats what Eddington did Parker used other game dogs and Eddington eventually did to.. But Lightner is the prominent mixed the DDB Eddington used. The problem is the OFRN today is not the dog it was unless you find the rare sources that still produce (hog) tested working dogs... No one breeds for game and no one culls except for a strain of corvino I found in Canada its mostly fizzled down compared to the post modern game dogs of today. SO when someone says you do not have a game dog, tis because you do not.

Whopper has resulted in some horrible deformities in both APBT registered dogs and Bully Registered dogs... They were able to label whopper as a bully just by grabbin one that was short and wide.. Cause most people dont know how to breed for consistency.

whopper strain of dogs are bandogs.. these dogs are named for their function not the other way around. Politics and propaganda can't change how genetics work all they can do is regulate and manipulate the way one perceives the truth.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Whoaaa! Slow down Firehazard!! Information overload!!! Keep posting that Fire knowledge and ima start calling you FIREHYDREN

GREAT POST!!

Now your just hoggin up all the rep lol


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Stan, awesome read bud.


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## SMiGGs (Jul 6, 2011)

Deformed dogs need love too, but should be spayed and neutered.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> .....................History Lesson.......................... from the Crayola Mtn.
> 
> The undershot jaw in your dog comes from the whopper in camelot.. Whopper was cross from an extinct strain of DDB that Eddington had access to and rung in as APBT.
> 
> ...


That is awesome FireHazard.
It's incredible to learn more and totally makes sense with my boys undershot jaw. Please if you have anymore information post away or PM me, I'm always down to learn!


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

This is why I love ya Stan, your like our own private history teacher


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Thanks, ya'll the  is much reciprocated! This is why I love pedigrees, family trees, and genetics.. its a history lesson...


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sucker For A Rednose said:


> I will dig up his pedigree, I have moved two times since buying him.
> I'll try and rumage through my paperwork files this weekend and scan it.
> He came from Bryant's Red Devils in GA.
> 
> Bryant's Red Devils Breeders of Traditional Red Nose American Pit Bull Terrier


I'll have to look at the peds deeper on dam and sire though from what i see of their peds you really don't have a game bred dog.. I see no matched dogs in either peds in any recent generation and from taking just a few minutes looking through, i didn't really see anything dating back further and mostly show or Whopper type hounds.

Not exactly the biggest fan of that kennel to begin with but i'll keep my thoughts to myself on that for now.

Stan, excellent post gotta keep the facts in check for 'em.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> I'll have to look at the peds deeper on dam and sire though from what i see of their peds you really don't have a game bred dog.. I see no matched dogs in either peds in any recent generation and from taking just a few minutes looking through, i didn't really see anything dating back further and mostly show or Whopper type hounds.
> 
> Not exactly the biggest fan of that kennel to begin with but i'll keep my thoughts to myself on that for now.
> 
> Stan, excellent post gotta keep the facts in check for 'em.


I personally don't care what anyone thinks of the kennel;
not to sound snobby (which i'm sure that will via text)
I don't affiliate with any kennels because 90% of them are snisters.
My relationship with Bryants never went beyond me getting a pup,
Have never spoke to them in depth after I got him, don't plan to.
I just grab a pup when I like it and it fits my lifestyle,
Mine are nothing more than loved pets.
& O'Malley is probably the most loved dog on the earth,
he is hands down the BEST dog I have EVER owned and that is being said without any pedigree/kennel/background in mind. Aside of being papered and coming from a known breeder,he is my pet..my family.

I knew from the moment I got him he wasn't show quality,
the undershot jaw showed right off the bat prominantly.
However, I also knew that I wasn't in the market for a show dog;
I wanted a good pet and love the red dogs.

I also know i'm not the smartest on all this stuff,
I am not new to the APBT breed,
however, I am new to digging deep into the history and such.
I learn more daily and hope y'all can handle that.

I can't claim to be the best dog women out there,
What I can guarentee is my boy will always be fed good,worked hard,loved very much,and will remain in my house till the day he dies.
& that's more than most people these days can say.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Sucker For A Rednose said:


> I will dig up his pedigree, I have moved two times since buying him.
> I'll try and rumage through my paperwork files this weekend and scan it.
> He came from Bryant's Red Devils in GA.
> 
> Bryant's Red Devils Breeders of Traditional Red Nose American Pit Bull Terrier


I see one breeding off those 2 here is the ped below how in the world did your dog end up with such a massive underbite? the parents don't seem to be undershot at least not to a degree that it's noticeable in their photos. Camelot is not a game line BTW and most of it now a days is in fact bully these dog's easily can push well up into the 100's. I know people use the line for WP dogs as they are basically larger catch weight dogs however the bully folks have taken the line to the extreme and you will see a lot of very large red dogs within this line today. Older camelot the foundation was a lot different but I wouldn't call it a game line by any means. The Hemphil/Sarona/Wilder those are older working/game OFRN strains. I looked through your dog's ped and there is nothing game tested within the first four generations you also have some staff blood that runs through some of the dogs in your boys ped. I wouldn't consider your dog an APBT based on the ped and I certainly wouldn't consider your dog game bred by any means because you have no tested dogs anywhere remotely close up in the pedigree. I would consider your dog a Staff or UKC show bred dog but that's JMO.

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [371354] :: BRYANTS PENNY

I have a few game bred dogs but this would be the difference if you look at my dog's ped's you will see working titles throughout the first 4 generations.

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [393731] :: MONSTERBOSS KENNELS IZZIE

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [328954] :: A'S BOGART


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

BTW I am not picking with you  I am just trying to help educate you when you said you had a game dog that was not the best choice of words and maybe you are not familiar with some of the lines behind your dog so I figured I would point a few things out not to pick on you just to help you out


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

He was the ONLY one out of the litter with a underbite.
Beats me as to why he was the odd man out,
but they made me sign a neuter agreement which was done as soon as he was placed with me.

Sadie,
Why is it I feel your kinda bashing on him a bit.
I already stated he is a pet.
Maybe i'm interpreting your text wrong, quite possible.
But I am feeling kinda backed into a corner by you like you feel as though i'm retarded.
All I did was go by what I was told.
I was told he was a game bred APBT by Bryants. 
Wouldn't be the first time someone was lied to about a pup,
surely not the last.

Regardless, I love my boy.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

Sadie said:


> BTW I am not picking with you  I am just trying to help educate you when you said you had a game dog that was not the best choice of words and maybe you are not familiar with some of the lines behind your dog so I figured I would point a few things out not to pick on you just to help you out


Okay, I was already writing by the time you posted this.
I was informed wrongly by the breeder, stuff happens and I love O'Malley so I wouldn't trade him for anything.
I'll just know how to be smarter about it next go around.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Sucker For A Rednose said:


> He was the ONLY one out of the litter with a underbite.
> Beats me as to why he was the odd man out,
> but they made me sign a neuter agreement which was done as soon as he was placed with me.
> 
> ...


I am not bashing your boy I was just trying to educate you  I apologize if I gave you that impression. I realized my post could have come across harsh which is why I said I was not picking on you just trying to point out a few things that maybe you didn't know. No harm intended


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

We all start somewhere I didn't know how to read a ped 5 years ago. And I had been lied to by a breeder before so I understand it's no biggie you live and learn that is why this forum is such a great place to come to.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

he has an underbite cause hes whopper...... that is a whopper trait and he has whopper in him.. so... easy as that... hes odd out cause that peterson/camelot was used as an outcross into that OFRN show stock.. thus underbite..


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> he has an underbite cause hes whopper...... that is a whopper trait and he has whopper in him.. so... easy as that... hes odd out cause that peterson/camelot was used as an outcross into that OFRN show stock.. thus underbite..


I know what you mean about the whopper dogs.
Sadie asked me why he had a underbite coming from the parents that he has,
I just pointed out the fact he was the ONLY pup with it.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Sucker For A Rednose said:


> I know what you mean about the whopper dogs.
> Sadie asked me why he had a underbite coming from the parents that he has,
> I just pointed out the fact he was the ONLY pup with it.


.

its no surprise knowing the lineage is what Im saying..


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> .
> 
> its no surprise knowing the lineage is what Im saying..


indeed,indeed.
:hammer:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Firehazard said:


> .
> 
> its no surprise knowing the lineage is what Im saying..


There is some staff in her dog too I even caught a glimpse of watch dog in there along with some OFRN.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Not trying to pick on you, i tell it how it is and trying to be nice as i can about it  You would do the same for someone new here so i don't see a point in letting you continue on..sort to speak.

You are feeding what you do for a reason, not my hound(s) so its purely educative.. The title should be irrelevant to the unconditional love you two share. Thats the bottom line.

Whopper would probably be best appropriate, or Bulldog.. Game dog/game bred is a no but we all start from some where unless you are one of them blessed to always have been around these dogs  .. even then learn something new all the time, second you feel you can't learn more and stop trying you'll get schooled by another. All a learning process so i would love your big ole bulldog and if you truly want a game dog, you have the time now to soak up the knowledge and make a more improved future decision..improved meaning you know what you are looking at.

I'll tell you don't know many that breed these pit dogs, game bred, etc that allow them to go in the hands of non-in the know. Establishing a relationship with a breeder doesn't mean you are always getting a pup off them.. It means you have a door open to whats beyond, all in who you know and a split second decision on who you get a hound from will be hit or miss..almost always the latter.

Goes for any working group, you want a serious hound gotta know who you speaking with.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I hate trying to read ped's that aren't stacked so I went and found her dog's ped online. A lot easier to read this way!

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [371354] :: BRYANTS PENNY


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

:goodpost: :goodpost:


Firehazard said:


> .....................History Lesson.......................... from the Crayola Mtn.
> 
> The undershot jaw in your dog comes from the whopper in camelot.. Whopper was cross from an extinct strain of DDB that Eddington had access to and rung in as APBT.
> 
> ...


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I know some.folk.who were friends with Eddie. They have some line bred dog from him, or did any way. They have gone a more traditional APBT route now. They said they were tired of the unsound dogs that were being produced in each litter ( they used them for weightpull). But I never ask if they still had any. This thread made me wonder, if they do I would like to see em. I will take pictures. I can't imagine give his breeding practices if he has any left that they would he more then a couple of few generations away from the aircel.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Eddie & Awesome Kantu









Eddie & Johnny









Eddie & Matilda SureCan









Eddie & PullMore


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

And

A/A XXI Spauldin's Chevy Red Dog- Bred By Eddie









A/A Kick Ass Kicker (Big Momma's great grandsire)









Eddie's Foundation Dog

A/A Eddington's I Wanna Be A Whopper


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Some really good picks of some of Eddie's best dogs.... Most people have never even seen the man.. THANK YOU SADIE! AGAIN most people are NOT following the same breeding regiment as Eddie the just assume they are.. He got the most out of it and by far more so than anyone today really.. Has any dog beat that Chevy A/A weight pull yet?

its starts with Parkers Bouncer... 








ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [19381] :: PARKER'S BOUNCER
120lbs!!!!

Wanna be A Whopper had a slight undershot just like the DDB in the photos above.

The reason its so hard for people to deal with whopper blood genetically is because the original DDB is the prototype where all of it comes down from orginally, Fighting dogs of Gaul. So when it gets back in there it throwing and matching all kinds of stuff in and out of dominance. In this case it would smash the APBT/AMSTF blood together as one because in the sense of genetics to the DDB they are.. (like black mixing with African then Chinese or say Irish)... does that make sense? On the genetic scale the black will smash in with the African and then all the kids will look the same except one maybe two who stick out with the recessive of that bunch but dominant in dad or moms phenotype... so you get a black man with strait hair or blue eyes or a pale yella skin almond eyed kid with velcro hair.. kinda like me.. LOL

the blood is older and actually already in the APBT from 1500 yrs ago.. as they were inbred down from and inbred down from mutated gene becoming dominant and so on.. Japanese know this too, great dog men/women over there. So by the time the alaunt comes out of the works and is establishing into the pit bulldog, its already based in DDB foundations. There are 256 ancestors to a 7 gen ped.. so imagine how tightly bred the APBT and "pit" bulldogs of the world actually are. We have to cull or live with taken care of a dog with deformities.. which are not mutations, mutations can lead to mutations but they also lead to the best of the stock...

Again I stress deformities are not mere cosmetic; they prevent the dog from work or healthy way of life.

There are other strains of bulldogs and bandogs with the undershot trait.. Hoagie has a slight undershot and hes half halls with garner sorrells blended and a pure shot of Lonzo (vindicator/zebo stuff) in that there are two sources that carry prominent undershots, Heinzl dubbed the proper bulldog bite a reverse scissor, which I agree. That not undershot but it is reversed so the term is undershot but the teeth scissor .. so..


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Firehazard this was the dog I was looking at in her dog's ped that had a little watch dog behind it and some staffy blood.

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [125147] :: SONIA'S ANIMAL


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Sadie said:


> Firehazard this was the dog I was looking at in her dog's ped that had a little watch dog behind it and some staffy blood.
> 
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [125147] :: SONIA'S ANIMAL


Oh.. You found that HA one eye did ya? You see how much like a ddb that dog stands.. WITH A STAFFY HEAD.. kinda looks like a horse. There is alot of this watchdog/whopper cross in Oklahoma now. They were crossin it up when I left about 8years ago.

LOL you can have him just take him off the chain... LOL


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Firehazard said:


> Oh.. You found that HA one eye did ya? You see how much like a ddb that dog stands.. WITH A STAFFY HEAD.. kinda looks like a horse. There is alot of this watchdog/whopper cross in Oklahoma now. They were crossin it up when I left about 8years ago.
> 
> LOL you can have him just take him off the chain... LOL


That is a weird cross LOL But those guys were breeding Hog and WP dog's so I kind of get it I guess:hammer: I would just take a catch weight yellow dog and be done with it LOL.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Sadie said:


> That is a weird cross LOL But those guys were breeding Hog and WP dog's so I kind of get it I guess:hammer: I would just take a catch weight yellow dog and be done with it LOL.


See.. thats how I look at it......


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Ok I have to say I have seen a lot of the buck bred dogs with webbed feet It's supposed to be extremely common in those dogs from what I have been told and have seen. Every dog is going to have faults of some sort and you will find certain bloodlines are genetically disposed to certain flaws wether you like it or not. I know game dog breeders are not culling a dog because it has webbed feet LOL Or an underbite, or tied elbows, these things don't really matter to them so long as they are game and can produce winners. I have seen some really nice conformationally correct working dogs and then I have seen some terrible looking working dogs conformation wise they were tore up but they maintained a space on a chain and in a yard and in a breeding program not because they were physically flawed but because they had a heart bigger than most dogs and could produce dogs with even bigger hearts. If your a show breeder obviously you want to breed the prettiest thing on four legs but working dog breeders are not so concerned with all of these physical attributes they breed and put their money on the heart of a dog.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Yeah my buddy loved the dogs. Had many ace dogs from this line the structural problems were to many were the kind that would hurt the dogs performance. I think they may has had.them too tight seeing as how Eddie.been gone for some time. He said the chests.would be so wide the dog couldn't pill and the hips would be displaced. They move to turtle buster redboy crosses. He also said a good few of them did not have the wind to ne.work next to the other dogs. Now I know of some.people that still use whipped crosses in weightpull and do great but they are big dogs. He also said he did not know how to match to dogs for a breeding like.Eddie did.

Stan I don't know if any.one broke.Chevy's record. The rules have been change.to a pound.for pound in weightpull. I am going up this weekend and.will get all.the info I can o. These dogs since He has hands on experience I never asked to much the first time.we talked Eddies passing came up. I ended or conversation then.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I don't know how I got that thumbs down up there. Sorry.


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## koeJ007 (Nov 1, 2011)

Eish.....


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## koeJ007 (Nov 1, 2011)

Wow, the wealth of information you guys just shoot off leaves my head spinning! (That's meant as a compliment). But I will say this; as soon as I get my boys registration papers I'm posting the names, and you all can feel free to tear it to shreds. Clearly I'm out of my league- so I'll leave all the deep digging to the pro's!!!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Rudy4747 said:


> I don't know how I got that thumbs down up there. Sorry.


Don't know but I changed it for you! LOL :thumbsup:


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Ok I have to say I have seen a lot of the buck bred dogs with webbed feet It's supposed to be extremely common in those dogs from what I have been told and have seen. Every dog is going to have faults of some sort and you will find certain bloodlines are genetically disposed to certain flaws wether you like it or not. I know game dog breeders are not culling a dog because it has webbed feet LOL Or an underbite, or tied elbows, these things don't really matter to them so long as they are game and can produce winners. I have seen some really nice conformationally correct working dogs and then I have seen some terrible looking working dogs conformation wise they were tore up but they maintained a space on a chain and in a yard and in a breeding program not because they were physically flawed but because they had a heart bigger than most dogs and could produce dogs with even bigger hearts. If your a show breeder obviously you want to breed the prettiest thing on four legs but working dog breeders are not so concerned with all of these physical attributes they breed and put their money on the heart of a dog.


:goodpost: and that's the difference between "game" and "show"

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread...lots of juicy information for the GPB masses


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## BryantsRedDevils (Jul 25, 2006)

Firehazard said:


> The undershot jaw in your dog comes from the whopper in camelot.. Whopper was cross from an extinct strain of DDB that Eddington had access to and rung in as APBT......
> 
> Todays whopper breeders dont really have an idea of how to get the most of the stock and what they end up with is a big mess. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [45796] :: PETERSON'S SHERMAN TANK There are some really good ones GREAT catch dogs and the epitimy of the best bandog.
> 
> ...


Yeah through Animal there is a little watchdog in our pedigrees, but Semi-Sweet (who has Animal in her pedigree) is the best damn catch dog we have ever had, no question about it! We are not slaves to a pedigree, we feel that working ability and drive are what defines a good pit bull. Our dogs are bred to catch wild boar and are "hog tested working dogs". The main percentage of our blood is OFRN blood but our dogs are outcrosses. We are breeding in purer OFRN blood as time goes on (blood from the High's at Arizona Red Rock and from Flametree kennels). But no matter how you put it, our dogs do have OFRN bloodlines.

I talked to "Sucker for A Rednose" and found out that someone sold her the dog with the underbite using hung papers from Dixie and Bullseye. We have only had 1 pup in over a decade of breeding that had an underbite and it did not come from Dixie or Bullseye. Take a look at our "Dogs Produced" pages and you will see that NONE of the dogs that we have produced are swaybacked, easty-westy, and out of many years of breeding only one has had an underbite and she was spayed. I have to say that I am glad that the guy that sold her the dog (with hung papers) did make her get him neutered (though I'm sure she would have anyway considering she is a smart girl and knows it is a fault). To know that some backyard breeder is using our paperwork for producing who knows what pisses me off thoroughly! I have talked to Brittany (Sucker for a Red Nose) before on facebook, but I had no idea that she thought her dog was from us... I'm glad we got it cleared up after I read this post, if we had talked more we probably would have figured it out sooner.

Either way I hope to clear this up without people bashing our dogs. Looking at what we have produced over the years should clear that up.... they are not only traditional in build (none of the dogs in our yard are over 65 lbs.), but also have intelligence, drive, and true working ability. I am a very honest person and if you read my website I am not trying to fool anyone. I clearly state what it is that we are breeding for and exactly what is in our bloodlines and I don't produced deformed dogs!!!


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

BryantsRedDevils said:


> Yeah through Animal there is a little watchdog in our pedigrees, but Semi-Sweet (who has Animal in her pedigree) is the best damn catch dog we have ever had, no question about it! We are not slaves to a pedigree, we feel that working ability and drive are what defines a good pit bull. Our dogs are bred to catch wild boar and are "hog tested working dogs". The main percentage of our blood is OFRN blood but our dogs are outcrosses. We are breeding in purer OFRN blood as time goes on (blood from the High's at Arizona Red Rock and from Flametree kennels). But no matter how you put it, our dogs do have OFRN bloodlines.
> 
> I talked to "Sucker for A Rednose" and found out that someone sold her the dog with the underbite using hung papers from Dixie and Bullseye. We have only had 1 pup in over a decade of breeding that had an underbite and it did not come from Dixie or Bullseye. Take a look at our "Dogs Produced" pages and you will see that NONE of the dogs that we have produced are swaybacked, easty-westy, and out of many years of breeding only one has had an underbite and she was spayed. I have to say that I am glad that the guy that sold her the dog (with hung papers) did make her get him neutered (though I'm sure she would have anyway considering she is a smart girl and knows it is a fault). To know that some backyard breeder is using our paperwork for producing who knows what pisses me off thoroughly! I have talked to Brittany (Sucker for a Red Nose) before on facebook, but I had no idea that she thought her dog was from us... I'm glad we got it cleared up after I read this post, if we had talked more we probably would have figured it out sooner.
> 
> Either way I hope to clear this up without people bashing our dogs. Looking at what we have produced over the years should clear that up.... they are not only traditional in build (none of the dogs in our yard are over 65 lbs.), but also have intelligence, drive, and true working ability. I am a very honest person and if you read my website I am not trying to fool anyone. I clearly state what it is that we are breeding for and exactly what is in our bloodlines and I don't produced deformed dogs!!!


Oh, wow that is crazy! I would be infuriated if that happened to me from either side. So this is the first I heard of any of this. When did y'all realize that this happened? Brittany, do you know how to get in touch with the person who sold you your boy?


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Oh, wow that is crazy! I would be infuriated if that happened to me from either side. So this is the first I heard of any of this. When did y'all realize that this happened? Brittany, do you know how to get in touch with the person who sold you your boy?


We just figured it all out today, and I am in the process of digging up paperwork now. Malley is 2 years old almost and I have moved two times since aquiring him so I am not sure if his paperwork is here or in storage. We are doing our best to locate his information to blow him in. I am pissed, and she is pissed. Regardless, O'Malley is my baby and my pride and joy but it does really piss me off that I was lied to. All I can do is try to stop this guy from doing it to more people and also learn for myself to dig deeper next time.


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## BryantsRedDevils (Jul 25, 2006)

We just found out today after I found this thread and contacted her on facebook. She said she will help me find the guy if she can but she is at work right now. I also forgot to state in my last post that WE DO NOT HAVE ANY WHOPPER OR EDDINGTON BLOOD IN OUR PEDIGREES AT ALL... we do have some watchdog and ruffian in there but it is a VERY small amount through our bitch Semi-Sweet and as I said before, she is the best catch dog we have ever seen. The dogs we produce these days have very little of it and are mainly based off of Wilder/Hemphill lines.


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## BryantsRedDevils (Jul 25, 2006)

We must have posted at the same time! And thank you so much Brittany for helping me. Like I told you, the important thing is that he found a home where he is loved. All dogs regardless of how they are bred, deserve love. You are a good woman.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

WOW how crazy!! So sad that people actually do that, I just don't get it at all. I know there are so many reasons but how can one place register a dog wont you need proof? I thought that's why some places DNA test now to make sure the dog is actually related to who they claim? Or is that not everywhere so that's why it can still happen? Plus, why would you hang papers for a dog that you will require to be s/n and only be a pet? Whats the point of that? Because others might be able to be used from the same litter? so they all get hung by default?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

WOW.... Id be pissed but atleast this doesnt change how you feel about him he was always a pet and loved as such , glad he has a great mommy who loves him regardless of a peice of paper. Is there anyway to protect yourself from having someone use your pedigrees to paper hang dogs? does the registry not contact you if the signature is off ? scary to think how many others are like this in the same boat. More reasons registrys need to tighten up on there end . Hope you catch this ass.


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## BryantsRedDevils (Jul 25, 2006)

Since we only know of it happening in this one case with this one dog. I am assuming that they got the papers legitimitely and the dog passed away or something and they were passing this dog off as one of ours by using our papers on it. That is about all I can tell about it. Brittany told me because he was neutered, that she never sent the papers off for permanent registration and has now lost them. She says Malley is now 2 years old. I have all the puppy pictures from Dixie and Bullseye's past litters. They have never had a puppy with so much white on them or any of them that had a bad bite, so I know for sure that this is a case of fraud  I feel bad for Brittany.

Update: Now that I think about it, they couldn't have even gotten them legitimately because I put the person's name on the back of the papers when I sign it. So who the heck knows how this could happen? This was a first for me. I checked all of Dixie's male puppies from 2 years ago and the only ones that had white on them, had only a very tiny dot of white on their chest only. None of them could have possibly been O'Malley... I'd post pictures of them on here if they would allow it. I think I will try


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## BryantsRedDevils (Jul 25, 2006)

Here are all the males from Dixie's litter 2 years ago:


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

awwww they are adorable pups, LOVE puppy pictures so thanks for posting them!!! Seems around the same age as O'Malley, I think he is 2 ish as well? 

I guess I am confused, when Britney got the dog wouldn't it typically be AT your kennel if the dog was papered in your dogs names? Or is that something that could be a red flag if looking at a dog and their papers, parents listed but neither of them at the site you get the dog from? Or would they just say they bought the puppy from you and are re-selling the dog? Can't you contact the person she got the dog from and find out? or have they disappeared?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sucks to happen but it does all too frequently.. All you can do is learn from your mistakes and apply them as time moves on, is what it is. Hopefully you get to the bottom of it and one more of these BYBs gets exposed, unfortunately for every one that IS exposed there are always several more to take its place.. 

All in who you know, what you know.. Sucker, don't sweat it.. Get what needs to be done and move forward.. Next time you get another Bulldog you'll be wiser.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

It's a shame what people will do for a dollar. Sorry to hear you were lied to, Sucker. Hope you can expose the seller.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> Sucks to happen but it does all too frequently.. All you can do is learn from your mistakes and apply them as time moves on, is what it is. Hopefully you get to the bottom of it and one more of these BYBs gets exposed, unfortunately for every one that IS exposed there are always several more to take its place..
> 
> All in who you know, what you know.. Sucker, don't sweat it.. Get what needs to be done and move forward.. Next time you get another Bulldog you'll be wiser.


Ya, Like I said previously-- I love O'Malley regardless. He is my heart dog and I would never regret him. I am glad that I only paid $250 for him though and didn't get hung papers on a dog that I spend a a lot on and had hopes of breeding. I set out for a "pet" and that is what I got. He is the best dog I have ever owned, I just hate the fact that I don't even know his background now. If he is pure, health issues of parents, how the parents were treated, ect. I was only fresh 18 when I bought him and have learned a lot since then so I surely won't make the same dumb mistake again but I DO NOT regret O'Malley.


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## BryantsRedDevils (Jul 25, 2006)

She told me that the guy said he was friends with us and had got the dog from us (weird that he had her sign a spay and neuter contract but that was a good thing). That let me know immediately that something was wrong (besides the fact that Dixie has not had any dogs with that much white on them OR with a bad bite). When we sell a dog, people come to our house and pick the puppy from the entire litter (that is unless they have last pick) but they still come to our home to get the puppy and we NEVER have anyone selling our puppies for us. It ALWAYS goes through us here. Maybe this will serve as a lesson for others! Never buy a dog from someone on the street that you do not know


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

BryantsRedDevils said:


> She told me that the guy said he was friends with us and had got the dog from us (weird that he had her sign a spay and neuter contract but that was a good thing). That let me know immediately that something was wrong (besides the fact that Dixie has not had any dogs with that much white on them OR with a bad bite). When we sell a dog, people come to our house and pick the puppy from the entire litter (that is unless they have last pick) but they still come to our home to get the puppy and we NEVER have anyone selling our puppies for us. It ALWAYS goes through us here. Maybe this will serve as a lesson for others! Never buy a dog from someone on the street that you do not know


That kinda makes me sound like i'm dumb or something but okay...
I'm pretty sure a majority of people with dogs didn't know the person extremely well who they got their pup from. Not everyone is friends with breeders. As I stated I was just turned 18 when I got O'Malley and have learned a TON since purchasing him. Not only about purchasing in general but so much about the APBT breed.

It was an honest mistake on my part and I admited my faults in the purchase, no needs to put salt in wounds.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sucker For A Rednose said:


> That kinda makes me sound like i'm dumb or something but okay...
> I'm pretty sure a majority of people with dogs didn't know the person extremely well who they got their pup from. Not everyone is friends with breeders. As I stated I was just turned 18 when I got O'Malley and have learned a TON since purchasing him. Not only about purchasing in general but so much about the APBT breed.
> 
> It was an honest mistake on my part and I admited my faults in the purchase, no needs to put salt in wounds.


I wouldn't say dumb but more or less inexperienced at the time.. You made your mistakes (and so on so forth) and now you have an unknown, the name should make no difference (and with you im sure it wont) as O'Malley is the same dog to a different name.. If O'Malley is a worker continue to work, a lazy pet continue to pet..

HOWEVER i can say many do know their breeders at least fairly well, if not directly, indirectly.. That i can remember off the top of my head i've only gone through one breeder i didn't really know when i was 17, otherwise... You've made some good acquaintances since then so i'm sure if you wanted to get yourself a damn fine hound from proven lines, you will have far better luck and advantages than before.

Now, love O'Malley and do what you can to expose the BS.. Educate others on what youve experienced and take the rest with a grain of salt..


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> I wouldn't say dumb but more or less inexperienced at the time.. You made your mistakes (and so on so forth) and now you have an unknown, the name should make no difference (and with you im sure it wont) as O'Malley is the same dog to a different name.. If O'Malley is a worker continue to work, a lazy pet continue to pet..
> 
> HOWEVER i can say many do know their breeders at least fairly well, if not directly, indirectly.. That i can remember off the top of my head i've only gone through one breeder i didn't really know when i was 17, otherwise... You've made some good acquaintances since then so i'm sure if you wanted to get yourself a damn fine hound from proven lines, you will have far better luck and advantages than before.
> 
> Now, love O'Malley and do what you can to expose the BS.. Educate others on what youve experienced and take the rest with a grain of salt..


Thanks KM, yes-since I have aquired O'Malley I have met man fantastic people and been in touch with quite a few breeders I would consider buying from 

O'Malley will continue to be loved just as much as before because I could care less what he is paper wise, he is my world. He will continue to work and be a loved house dog. Nothing around here will change.


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## BryantsRedDevils (Jul 25, 2006)

Didn't want to make you sound dumb... I was only answering "Ames" questions and trying to let others know what it was that you did wrong so they can learn from your mistake. I'm sure you would'nt want anyone else to make that mistake... Coming from a breeder's perspective, I can only say that most breeders who take pride in their animals would be horrified to find out that someone is passing off lower quality pets under their name. No meanness was ever intended.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

Lower quality.....
I will just keep my mouth shut on this.
Your dogs are gorgeous but there is absolutely no need in demeaning the quality of my dog. Mutt, petbull, whatever he may be--If you seen him work you wouldn't think he was any less "quality." I have tried my damndest to inform you of all the lies I got told and ect. and also said I would tell everyone that I got hung papers. The dog is fixed, the truth was told, and I feel like it should have been left at that. I understand your being mad but I also feel like there is no need for personal attacks on my dog. My dog is damn good looking aside of his bite.

O'Malley's ONLY flaw is a underbite. He lacks nothing in any other aspect & I have had many doggers tell me the same.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sucker i like you, i really do and i think you have a lot going for you especially given your age and experience.. However i have to be honest, i haven't seen anyone here attacking your dog even on a non personal level.. Not in the open forum anyway. I think your taking things the wrong way and out of context, no one is saying O'Malley is a bad dog or that you should regret getting him. 

I also wonder what kind of work you do with him since this isn't the first time you've mentioned it but i haven't seen any where at least of what type of work you do. Unless you consider conditioning, WP, etc work than its just a matter of how you define it i guess.

I'm not trying to put you down and i'm sure it is a blow for you now knowing the truth about O'Malley.. It may not change how you personally feel towards him but to a degree, i'm sure you feel a little used and in some form let down. (at very least let down by the people you got him from) However for a breeder, it is a bit different a huge concern. If i were breeding and found out someone was using hung papers concerning my hounds as a selling point or anything fraud, i would be severely pissed and would want to make sure the people who bought those dogs were made aware of this and the differences between that of my hounds and the ones they own for educational purposes.

I will also point out that faults aren't a huge deal unless you are showing, as long as there is a solid structure, solid mentality and function.. That hound is a fine example. 

Anyway don't take anything personally, at least i don't see any reason for it. The situation sucks i'm sure however your getting far more worked up than what you need to be over things that aren't meant to be.


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## Sucker For A Rednose (Sep 11, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> Sucker i like you, i really do and i think you have a lot going for you especially given your age and experience.. However i have to be honest, i haven't seen anyone here attacking your dog even on a non personal level.. Not in the open forum anyway. I think your taking things the wrong way and out of context, no one is saying O'Malley is a bad dog or that you should regret getting him.
> 
> I also wonder what kind of work you do with him since this isn't the first time you've mentioned it but i haven't seen any where at least of what type of work you do. Unless you consider conditioning, WP, etc work than its just a matter of how you define it i guess.
> 
> ...


Km, I like you,too. & I value your opinion more than I value many others. I always find you to be outlet of information and learning. Maybe I am taking it a little to heart, because yes....I am let down a bit. It does not change my personal feelings towards my bulldog but it is a lil depressing to not know any background on him now. But I felt a lil sting behind the "lower quality" statement.

As far as his work-- I know you heavily work your dogs so I will prolly be nowhere near your "working" standards but O'Malley does WP,Conditioning,Spring Pole,Flirt Pole,Frisbee,Long Runs,ect. We are flirting with idea of training him for hog hunting because my husband hunts in a hunt club and one of his close friends hog hunts avidly. He isn't even two yet so the heavy working has just recently came in. He is a very able minded dog and I would love if someone lived closer to me whom I trusted to train him because I feel like he has so much potential and I am just not knowledged enough to completely harness his potential but I am damn sure trying. He has drive and I love that about him.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sucker For A Rednose said:


> Km, I like you,too. & I value your opinion more than I value many others. I always find you to be outlet of information and learning. Maybe I am taking it a little to heart, because yes....I am let down a bit. It does not change my personal feelings towards my bulldog but it is a lil depressing to not know any background on him now. But I felt a lil sting behind the "lower quality" statement.
> 
> As far as his work-- I know you heavily work your dogs so I will prolly be nowhere near your "working" standards but O'Malley does WP,Conditioning,Spring Pole,Flirt Pole,Frisbee,Long Runs,ect. We are flirting with idea of training him for hog hunting because my husband hunts in a hunt club and one of his close friends hog hunts avidly. He isn't even two yet so the heavy working has just recently came in. He is a very able minded dog and I would love if someone lived closer to me whom I trusted to train him because I feel like he has so much potential and I am just not knowledged enough to completely harness his potential but I am damn sure trying. He has drive and I love that about him.


If we lived closer i could assess him and help you but unfortunately thats a bit of a drive. I would personally consider all you've mentioned more conditioning and exercise vs actual work.. But i'm glad to hear you are keeping him busy. I'll shoot you a PM to find out where your located and maybe i can help you get your foot in locally or at least i can help you get started on your own.

I understand the blows but don't let it control you, like i said its been respectful and i think you need to, if anything take a step back and relax. Because 1. You can't change whats happened 2. Its the internet and 3. It doesn't change how you view him so it shouldn't bring you down all that much.

Learn from the mistakes you made and become wiser for it. You have a long life ahead of you and to think it will be a breeze is thinking ignorant. We all make mistakes on a daily basis.. Small or large, so long as we learn from those mistakes it can be all viewed a positive in the end.


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