# Sticky  20 Principles of Breeding Better Dogs



## pitbullmamanatl

by
Raymond H. Oppenheimer

 
1. Remember that the animals you select for breeding today *will *have an impact on the breed for *many *years to come. Keep that thought firmly in mind when you choose breeding stock. 



2. You can choose only two individuals per generation. Choose *only *the *best*, because you will have to wait for another generation to improve what you start with. Breed only if you expect the progeny to be *better *than both parents. 



3. You *cannot *expect statistical predictions to hold *true *in a small number of animals (as in one litter of puppies). Statistics only apply to large populations. 



4. A pedigree is a *tool *to *help *you learn the *good and bad *attributes that your dog is *likely *to exhibit or reproduce. _A pedigree is only as good as the dog it represents. 
_

5. Breed for a *total *dog, *not *just one or two characteristics. Don't follow *fads *in your breed, because they are usually meant to *emphasize *one or two features of the dog _*at the expense of the soundness and function of the whole.*_

6. *Quality *does *not *mean *quantity*. Quality is produced by *careful *study, having a good mental picture of what you are trying to achieve, having *patience *to *wait *until the right breeding stock is *available *and to evaluate what you have already produced, and above all, having a *breeding plan* that is at least three generations ahead of the breeding you do today. 



7. Remember that skeletal defects are the *most difficult *to change. 



8. Don't bother with a good dog that *cannot *produce well. Enjoy him (or her) for the beauty that he represents but don't use him in a breeding program. 



9. Use out-crosses very *sparingly*. For *each *desirable characteristic you acquire, you will get *many *bad traits that you will have to eliminate in succeeding generations. 



10. Inbreeding is a *valuable *tool, being the fastest method to set good characteristics and type. It brings to light hidden traits that *need *to be *eliminated *from the breed. 



11. Breeding does *not "create" *anything. What you get is what was there to begin with. It may have been *hidden* for many generations, but it was there. 



12. *Discard *the old cliché about the littermate of that great producer being just as good to breed to. Littermates *seldom *have the same genetic make-up. 



13. Be *honest *with yourself. There are *no *perfect dogs (or bitches) nor are there perfect producers. You *cannot *do a *competent *job of breeding if you *cannot *recognize the *faults and virtues *of the dogs you plan to breed. 



14. Hereditary traits are inherited *equally *from both parents. Do *not *expect to solve all of your problems in *one* generation. 



15. If the worst puppy in your last litter is *no *better than the worst puppy in your first litter, you are *not *making progress. _Your last litter should be your last litter. 
_

16. If the best puppy in your last litter is *no *better than the best puppy in your first litter, you are *not *making progress. _Your last litter should be your last litter. 
_

17. Do *not *choose a breeding animal by either the* best or the worst* that he (or she) has produced. Evaluate the *total* get by the attributes of the majority. 



18. Keep in mind that *quality *is a *combination *of _*soundness and function*_. It is *not *merely the lack of faults, but the positive presence of virtues. It is the *whole *dog that counts. 



19. Don't allow *personal *feelings to influence your choice of breeding stock. The right dog for your breeding program is the right dog, whoever owns it. Don't ever decry a good dog; they are too rare and wonderful to be demeaned by pettiness. 



20. *Don't* be *satisfied *with anything but *the best*. *The second best is never good enough. *


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## ncboi

Very good outlook on breeding for a better generation.Thanks man


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## jaceaa

You seem knowlegable of what it takes to bread. So I'll ask you. Since I have decided I want an APBT I have done a lot of searching, and it seems like the AmBullys are the only thing Google can find. I am wanting to find a show quality or weight pull potential APBT. I have never found a website for real APBTs that mentions Inbreading Coefficient and Ancestral Loss.  I understand that a certain amount of inbreading is necessary to retain desirable qualities, but when I get my dog I am hoping it will have 5% or less for its inbreading coefficient, and greater than 80% for its ancestral loss coefficient. I want a sound healthy dog. I want to know where to find breaders who have at least heard of these formulas. I want a large dog maybe as much as 70lbs, but a dog that looks like a muscle chart with fur. Also I want to visit the yard and see the dam and sire. So geography is a factor. Any well spoken breader of dogs that Diane Jessup and Louis Colby would recognize your dogs as APBT please reply.


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## pitbullmamanatl

jaceaa said:


> You seem knowlegable of what it takes to bread. So I'll ask you. Since I have decided I want an APBT I have done a lot of searching, and it seems like the AmBullys are the only thing Google can find. I am wanting to find a show quality or weight pull potential APBT. I have never found a website for real APBTs that mentions Inbreading Coefficient and Ancestral Loss.  I understand that a certain amount of inbreading is necessary to retain desirable qualities, but when I get my dog I am hoping it will have 5% or less for its inbreading coefficient, and greater than 80% for its ancestral loss coefficient. I want a sound healthy dog. I want to know where to find breaders who have at least heard of these formulas. I want a large dog maybe as much as 70lbs, but a dog that looks like a muscle chart with fur. Also I want to visit the yard and see the dam and sire. So geography is a factor. Any well spoken breader of dogs that Diane Jessup and Louis Colby would recognize your dogs as APBT please reply.




Actually, my only domestic quality is that I live in a house. Not sure how to make bread. Sorry.


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## jaceaa

Ok. My apologies. I am of at least average intelligence, but spelling is not one of my stronger qualities. Would you please take a second look at my question after I have correctly spelled breed and spell checked the rest of my text.

You seem knowledgeable of what it takes to breed. So I'll ask you. Since I have decided I want an APBT I have done a lot of searching, and it seems like the AmBullys are the only thing Google can find. I am wanting to find a show quality or weight pull potential APBT. I have never found a website for real APBTs that mentions Inbreeding Coefficient and Ancestral Loss Coefficient. Inbreeding calculator I understand that a certain amount of inbreeding is necessary to retain desirable qualities, but when I get my dog I am hoping it will have 5% or less for its inbreeding coefficient, and greater than 80% for its ancestral loss coefficient. I want a sound healthy dog. I want to know where to find breeders who have at least heard of these formulas. I want a large dog maybe as much as 70lbs, but a dog that looks like a muscle chart with fur. Also I want to visit the yard and see the dam and sire. So geography is a factor. Any well spoken breeder of dogs that Diane Jessup and Louis Colby would recognize your dogs as APBT please reply.


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## pitbullmamanatl

jaceaa said:


> Ok. My apologies. I am of at least average intelligence, but spelling is not one of my stronger qualities. Would you please take a second look at my question after I have correctly spelled breed and spell checked the rest of my text.
> 
> You seem knowledgeable of what it takes to breed. So I'll ask you. Since I have decided I want an APBT I have done a lot of searching, and it seems like the AmBullys are the only thing Google can find. I am wanting to find a show quality or weight pull potential APBT. I have never found a website for real APBTs that mentions Inbreeding Coefficient and Ancestral Loss Coefficient. Inbreeding calculator I understand that a certain amount of inbreeding is necessary to retain desirable qualities, but when I get my dog I am hoping it will have 5% or less for its inbreeding coefficient, and greater than 80% for its ancestral loss coefficient. I want a sound healthy dog. I want to know where to find breeders who have at least heard of these formulas. I want a large dog maybe as much as 70lbs, but a dog that looks like a muscle chart with fur. Also I want to visit the yard and see the dam and sire. So geography is a factor. Any well spoken breeder of dogs that Diane Jessup and Louis Colby would recognize your dogs as APBT please reply.


Hmmmm... Diane is kind of an idiot and I don't consider her a breed expert and Louis Colby is dead sooooo...... 70lbs is large for an APBT; however, there have been big dogs like that, Alligator being one that comes to mind. Are you looking for a weight pulling dog, conformation show dog, or just a pet????


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## jaceaa

Is it unrealistic to think a dog could do both? I like the muscular definition of the weight pull dogs, but the competition is too intense. So I should probably stick to conformation.


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## storey

I don't mean to be a heart breaker but if your set on an apbt I'm afraid your either going to have to get in the right circles or drop your expectations some. Now listen. I love apbt. Even more than my wife probably but 90% of today's American pitbull terriers are not what they used to be. Now there are some dog men who have kept lines tight but there few and far between. Most have quit simply because they can't find anything worth breeding to. Limes are scattered across the board. If you want a dog an old school gamer would be proud to call pit, help spread the word that back yard breeders arewatering down the blood. If people could stop making such a mess then expierienced figment could start putting out the dogs of old again. And there would have to be some way to legally match them. If need be I would even support any other method of testing, as long as it showed the dogs heart and will.


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## jaceaa

I agree that BYB are clueless for the most part and are making it hard for us to find quality dogs, but I'm not entirely convinced that these dogs are completely gone from the earth. At a show two old school dogs will stand on their hind legs and try to make contact with each other. I see these weight pull dogs pulling 100 times their weight for a little praise at the end of the rails. I don't need to see a dogs muzzle torn off or bleeding to death to know this dog would do anything. In the modern world we all get soft. I'm sure I'm not 1/2 as hard as my ancestors, but today I don't have to be. It's in the blood, and if it becomes important for survival it comes back to the surface. So I want a dog that has that gameness, but I will never know that he would jump out of the pit or quit on me because I wouldn't match them. Even Colby said that if you breed two dead game dogs you're lucky if one of the puppies is dead game. I would have to keep 20 dogs until they were 3 or buy adult dogs if I wanted to know if they were dead game. I want a dog that looks and behaves like a real APBT that I can take to weight pulls and shows for fun.


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## back2basics

jaceaa said:


> I agree that BYB are clueless for the most part and are making it hard for us to find quality dogs, but I'm not entirely convinced that these dogs are completely gone from the earth. At a show two old school dogs will stand on their hind legs and try to make contact with each other. I see these weight pull dogs pulling 100 times their weight for a little praise at the end of the rails. I don't need to see a dogs muzzle torn off or bleeding to death to know this dog would do anything. In the modern world we all get soft. I'm sure I'm not 1/2 as hard as my ancestors, but today I don't have to be. It's in the blood, and if it becomes important for survival it comes back to the surface. So I want a dog that has that gameness, but I will never know that he would jump out of the pit or quit on me because I wouldn't match them. Even Colby said that if you breed two dead game dogs you're lucky if one of the puppies is dead game. I would have to keep 20 dogs until they were 3 or buy adult dogs if I wanted to know if they were dead game. I want a dog that looks and behaves like a real APBT that I can take to weight pulls and shows for fun.


How would you breed two dead dogs? Dead game dogs are dead, not being a stickler for syntax, just asking. No amount of dogs you keep will prove they're dead game.


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## jaceaa

Honestly...I have no idea. I got the term from Colby's book. I would imagine that the breedings had taken place prior to their last fights, but that is my best guess.


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## back2basics

Colby's statement was rhetorical, and was referring to percentages and nothing more. Even a proven dog may not be a producer and there are no guarantees with dogs. As far as your search for "real" dogs goes there are plenty out there, a website only offers a brief glimpse into the skill that goes into maintaining dogs for the long haul. Are you in in the US?


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## jaceaa

Yes, rite in the middle, MO.


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## atzalon

Number 10 about inbreeding is so very important. One of the best breeders of pits in the world told me that family breeding does bring to the front the traits that you want the most, but it also compounds the traits that you dont want also. it is the responsibility of the breeder to select and eliminate the bad ones. That is how great lines are made. Use the best that you produce and distroy the rest. Dont sell them, dont give them away.DO NOT REPRODUCE THEM. Mr. Heinzl gave me that sage advise.


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## allaboutdogs

I believe these 20 principles. These principles are essential to preserve the best breed for your dogs.


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## Firehazard

:goodpost: :goodpost:
some good points here... As if I said em myself.. Also some points I don't entirely agree with however they whole post is educational and hopefully more people read it and take it to heart. I follow Heinzl, and Colbys, work myself. YES .. those guys .. could pick a dead game pup out by watching it raise up out of the litter, they could pick a game pup by looking over the pups and seeing the interact. Its called ATTAINED knowledge or ESOTERIC Knowledge.. what people have in place is hysteria, ignorance, ego, and forgetfulness. Very few men understood pedigree analysis and game dogs the way Heinzl and JP did. I've said a good deal of whats posted here from thread to thread and it was all learned through experience or from understanding canine genetics through wolf rescue and rehabilitation as well as Colbys, Heinzls, work..


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## surfer

i had a friend [who's dad's pit bull made the cover of the 1941 police gazette] tell me that his dad had showed him, how he could take ANY breed of dog and within 7 generations come up with game dogs consistently.
thru selective breeding and culling hard. think about it when do you get reconized with th 'PR' at UKC after 7 generations.


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## Firehazard

IF it was on the color of the Police Gazette than it was a game dog because the best of show in those days was side by side with the []. Best in show, gamest in show.. So on.

IN the beginning of UKC the dogs automatically had to win 2 against a dog that had already won once or twice.. Dog matches quit being put in the Police Gazette shortly after WWII when american boxing started to REALLY come on board. IT was always a gentlemens sport despite what propaganda says. Of course there is always a bad apple involved in any sport, especially contests...

7 generations is how many ancestors contributed DNA (mtDna and Dna goes back 1000s of yrs) from 256 ancestors each giving the dog a DNA source from 20,000 + potential sources. Its the same for all mammals.

Keepin it all in line is just that  Keeping the Gene pool strong .. done right with diversity stemming from the same source can be the strongest source of DNA for any of the breed.


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## BabyBlueNose702

So if i get a male pup from mama dog can i breed him with another one of mama next litter

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## william williamson

BabyBlueNose702 said:


> So if i get a male pup from mama dog can i breed him with another one of mama next litter
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If it's A "blue nose",please refrain from breeding and breeding your blue nose.


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## DickyT

BabyBlueNose702 said:


> So if i get a male pup from mama dog can i breed him with another one of mama next litter


Trying to not be an *

But if you need to ask a question like that you should not be breeding any dogs.


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## MSK

BabyBlueNose702 said:


> So if i get a male pup from mama dog can i breed him with another one of mama next litter
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Welcome to GoPitbull! We hope you enjoy your stay please take the time to observe the forum rules (Forum Rules!) and all stickies which are the top posts on all forums. Most stickies are answers to basic Q&A that are asked often. Be mindful that our members are very passionate about all the bully breeds some with specific ones. If you are here to only post about a breeding or sales unless you have permission this will not be allowed and will frustrate most all of our members. All of our senior and reoccurring members believe in not sugar coating honesty. This is only in preparation to let you know most members are direct and blunt they do not mean to hurt feelings but, I can assure you everything said to you about your animal will be in your animal's best interest. Thank you for choosing GoPitbull to gain or expand your knowledge. We look forward to getting to know you.

Here are some great stickies to check out to begin with:

http://www.gopitbull.com/introduction-forum/9441-welcome-gopitbull.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/introduction-forum/54538-post-new-thread.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/122754-how-post-pictures.html
http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/7438-picture-posting-tutorial.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/19088-abbreviations-terms-used.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/site-support-feedback/9223-profile-image-how.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/site-support-feedback/45625-how-do-you-delete-thread.html

*As far as the breeding thing you should seriously rethink before you do ESPECIALLY when inbreeding which is what you would be doing. Although it helps with consistency it also can be a whirlwind of disaster for a novice breeder as they are typically Kennel Blind and don't see the faults that are there most also refuse to do proper health testing one foundation stock. Nothing most all breeders havent done to begin with but, would be a better start to research before just deciding that you want a pup off the same mom to breed to your male.

Look around*

http://www.gopitbull.com/pitbull-articles/44915-lifecycle-dog-fancier.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/45688-closer-look-kennel-blindness.html

http://www.gopitbull.com/pitbull-articles/45466-inbreeding.html#post536907


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