# Breed Question



## Nick0887 (Jun 21, 2007)

I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to online so figured I would ask you guys.

When I went to go look at puppys, the guy told me he had all different kinds of pitbulls not knowing there were more then just blue nose and red nose I was like ok, so when I got there this guy had like literally 20-25 puppys from all different litters running around he starting naming the breeds he said the chinamen were so much and the others were less but I liked the chinamen so he called it and got one of those... so my question is what is a Chinamen he said its a specific breed of pitbull, I have the papers for her I have to send out for her pedigree, he showed me the mothers while I was there but it was all jiberish to me, can anyone help me out


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

*first off theres only one breed of american pitbull terrier,the other terms folks use to distinguish types are basically based on color[red nose blue nose]
and bloodlines[chinaman,jeep,watchdog,york]and these dogs can be seperated by performance and size,temperment and color,but are still the same breed.Your paticular dogs bloodline"chinaman"is founded off a legendary fighting dog,a small mangy little dog,one of the most respected dogs of all time in apbt history...*









Chinaman was born on the yard of R. Abernathy on November 29, 1977. He was one of three pups born to Abernathy's Molly and sired by Wood's Trouble. Molly always seemed to have 3 pups. This time there was Chinaman, Boy and a female who would be named Onyx Lady (who went to the owner of Trouble, Dr. Wood). Boy would end up in the hands of G. Wright, where he would win three matches. Chinaman was raised by R. Abernathy and when he came of age he was placed with Dr. Wood to find out what he was made of.

After a short stay, Dr. Wood shipped Chinaman to Vince and Bob in California to make up for an earlier prospect he had sold them that failed to live up to expectations. He arrived full of hookworms and roundworms and weighed only 42 lbs., 4 lbs. below his eventual best match weight of 46 lbs. Bob kept him on a long cable run and tried to help him overcome his emaciated state. Chinaman thanked him by biting him, so Bob shipped him to Vince. It was love at first sight. Vince wormed Chinaman and scheduled a roll for him.

After a 3-hour drive Chinaman was nauseated and dehydrated. He was pitted 10 lbs. uphill against a powerful red dog named Ch. Caesar who proceeded to mop the floor with him. When the big dog tired, Chinaman went to the stifles and punched very hard. Even though he was still nauseated and underweight he came up from the bottom to bite down and stop Caesar at: 28.

Chinaman's next roll was into Doc, a highly respected wrecker. If he could hang with Doc for even 10 minutes, Chinaman would be worth a bet. Doc came out hard and slammed Chinaman into the corner and tried to trade with Chinaman. Big mistake! Chinaman hit the gut and killed the Doctor in his own living room in 17 minutes! It was clear Chinaman was something special.

For his first two matches, Chinaman was hooked into respected head dogs that some expected to weather the storm and challenge the killing stifle and gut dog. Like their predecessors, neither lasted to the half-hour mark with Chinaman. For his third, a match was made with the highly renowned Gray's Hubcap who had dispatched the famous Red Danger dog in a classic 2-hour encounter. Vince and Bob traveled 7 hours with their dog and when they arrived, odds of 5-1 were being offered against Chinaman. The betting line changed dramatically after the dogs were released. Chinaman drove Hubcap into the corner on his back and this is where the match ended 18 minutes later. Hubcap was a memory and Chinaman was proclaimed a champion and best in show.

Suddenly no one had a 45-46 lb. male. Respectable dog men avoided him like the plague. Finally, when he was 7 years old, some determined fellows bought an expert head dog from R. Jackson, just to take out the aging Ch Chinaman. The dog from Jackson showed a lot of ability, but it wasn't enough to keep out an athlete of Chinaman's caliber. Chinaman worked past his defenses and curred him out in 38 minutes. This had been Chinaman's longest match, but the outcome was the same as always: he destroyed everything in his path.

For all who witnessed his matches, Chinaman became known as one of the roughest ever and a true finisher. According to scientific tests, he had the air of a greyhound. According to all who saw him, he had the mouth of an alligator. He was very clever. He would outsmart slick ear and nose dogs and cur them out. He would finish straight-ahead dogs even faster. Swapping-out was his game. Like all the truly great ones, Chinaman's build was like a sleek, muscular thoroughbred.

The Chinaman name appears in many of today's pedigrees. His contribution as a producer equals, or exceeds his dominance as a performer. Among his better known offspring were Ch. Eightball, Ch. Cotton, Ch. Chinabuck, Ch. Chinagirl, Ch. Stormy, Ch. Missy, Ch. Chinarose, Ch. Ninja and Ch. Crock. He had three sons (Brodt's Boar, Cottingham's Cotton, and Shockley's Header) go over the 3-hour mark on the same weekend! Perhaps his greatest contribution is as a producer of producers, as his son Frisco ROM has produced more champions and grand champions than any other living stud.

The Legend


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## Nick0887 (Jun 21, 2007)

Thanks man I appreciate you clarifying that for me I was just a little bit confused with what he was saying, he was explaining it like I breed dogs for a living lol, but thanks for clarifying that for me I really appreciate it. but one other question if my dog was bred off that dog she should be around the same size, I am still trying to figure out the whole pure bred thing and how they can say the dog will be the same size as the one from 30 years ago because you have to take other dogs and breed them of different sizes but I don't want to start asking all kinds of questions I will just learn as I go. thanks again 
-NiCk-


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Nick0887 said:


> but one other question if my dog was bred off that dog she should be around the same size, I am still trying to figure out the whole pure bred thing and how they can say the dog will be the same size as the one from 30 years ago because you have to take other dogs and breed them of different sizes but I don't want to start asking all kinds of questions I will just learn as I go. thanks again
> -NiCk-


it really depends on how tightly bred or game bred this particular pup is.I mean he could have alot of chinaman blood,but also some idiot could of added some camalot or gotti blood or something which would make for a larger dog with a bit of game dog in it,the pedigree will tell alot of the story and what to expect in size,temperment and ability...


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

to bad chinaman was never matched against anyone that was even close to his ability and mouth. no one ever realy got to see if he was game or just a hard mouth cur


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

wheezie said:


> to bad chinaman was never matched against anyone that was even close to his ability and mouth. no one ever realy got to see if he was game or just a hard mouth cur


well he's a r.o.m meaning he produced alot of good dogs,it was said in the above story that three of his offspring went 3 hours in a match all in the same week,so that would pretty much prove that he produced very game dogs.My question is this,whats better a dead game loser or a winning dog that was just so punishing his gameness was never proven?historicly speaking naturaly.....


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

cane76 said:


> well he's a r.o.m meaning he produced alot of good dogs,it was said in the above story that three of his offspring went 3 hours in a match all in the same week,so that would pretty much prove that he produced very game dogs.My question is this,whats better a dead game loser or a winning dog that was just so punishing his gameness was never proven?historicly speaking naturaly.....


i wasnt really talking about what he has produced but more of what he is himself. good question keith but i would go with a hard mouth dog that never had to prove his gameness over dead game anyday of the week, not the dogs fault there was no competition.


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## Nick0887 (Jun 21, 2007)

I don't think the guy that I bought the dog from bred it with any other big dogs because he told me she would only be about 40-50lbs and the mother was around that really good lookin dog and he also was like against the razors edge and all the bigger dogs he said there not real APT and how people cross breeded them to make them that big. Because thats what I originally wanted was a big pitbull and he kinda explained to me about how they weren't really pure breds so I went with the chinaman, I mean that guy was a little weird but seemed to know what he was talking about lol and he sold the dogs so cheap 400 for chinaman and like 300 for other ones with papers and he wormed them, he puts them in shows had like over 30 ribbons it was a little weird I swear he can't be all there he literally had over 40 dogs in his house, basement bedrooms living room, just him and like 40 pitbulls, but overall I can't complain the dog is healthy and she looks really good.. I dunno thanks for the information though I appreciate it.
-NiCk-


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Damn keith! that chinaman stuff is unreal. great post!


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## MijakaX (Jun 15, 2007)

ADAMS' GR. CH. ZEBO ROM wasnt a chinaman was he, I know he won more matches than most. A all black pit bull, but I dont think he was a chinaman was he???


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

That is a very interesting post Keith. Thanks for the info.

Nick0087 I'm sure your pup is amazing can not wait to see some pictures. I do hope that he has his shots. You didn't mention that only worming.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

MijakaX said:


> ADAMS' GR. CH. ZEBO ROM wasnt a chinaman was he, I know he won more matches than most. A all black pit bull, but I dont think he was a chinaman was he???


no he didnt produce chinaman.but its funny,he bit off adams sons ear,just another time that a dog wasnt culled for human aggresion,chinaman also bit his owner.it seems that alot of the typical [email protected]! we say about the old game dogs and dogmen arent 100% correct...a winning dog was never culled,no matter what....


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