# is dog fighting really that bad?



## divathequeen (Jun 28, 2007)

i mean its part of our american,european history i really have no problem with it i mean i dont do it never so dont get the idea i fight dogs. i was raised were i used to go see roosters fight every week which is kinda like fighting dogs in my neighberhood i seen many dogs get rolled. people dont get the wrong idea i dont fight my dog and never will i am just saying i was raised were kids fighting there dogs on the streets was a everyday thing here a pic of my precious

http://www.gopitbull.com/pitbullforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1648&stc=1&d=1203921683


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

I was raised around that sort of thing to. It was common place.
Yes it is bad, it should always be recognised as part of their history but never glorified..JMO


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I do accept it as part of our history, but It is bad because if you cared for your animal you would not let it be torn apart that way, just for entertainment and money. There is no need to prove a dogs drive that way.


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## strongman_atlas (Feb 17, 2008)

Yea, it's bad but at the same time it's what make our breed America's breed. The APBT was created right HERE in America solely for pit fights. Without that gruesome past the APBTs of today wouldn't be what they are. BAD? Depends on how you look at it... Me, being the philosopher that I am, when taking a socratic point of view to this. I ask the question What is so different then today's UFC, Bull fights, war, or Boar hunting events? APBTs fought to please their masters never giving up until master says so or death (what we call "drive"), their mental stability is unlike that of any other breed, stamina, pound for pound the strongest breeed, and that futuristic edge! 

Now to clean things up morally, NO I never fought dogs (well actually my Samiya did defend and run off a large, mean, strange looking dog that ran up on us, but that was baby protecting daddy lol. Dumb dog bit my baby too! But you should have seen how she handled the mutt), NO never thought about it, and NO I never attended one. Just stating the obvious, that without baiting and pit fights in the PAST, we wouldn't be here talking about how GREAT APBTs are.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

ericschevy said:


> I was raised around that sort of thing to. It was common place.
> Yes it is bad, it should always be recognised as part of their history but never glorified..JMO


Its a touchy subject for me. I know the history and allthough its intresting its very disturbing


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Yes it is the history of this breed but all things have a history it doesn't mean that it is right. I love the drive of the APBT but I don't like the DAness of them. They are a loyal dog yes but fighting to death isn't necessary anymore. We can show off our dogs in a whole new light. If we contintue to glorify the fighting aspect of this breed we will have contintue to fight BSL I believe the two go hand in hand.


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Agreed with everyone..
It is disturbing and even if I was raised in those times I would still find it disturbing. I have never been one to follow the norm either. I'm simply not the type of person.

Everyone should know and understand how the APBT came to be but once again never glorify it..JMHO


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

it is a touchy subject but i think that anything you do to your animal that will OBVIOUSLY get the animal injured or killed is cruelty i think fighting any animal is horrible weather its roosters or horses. (i have seen a recoreded horse fight and it was brutal. i DEFINATELY cannot stand rodeos they are horrible to those bulls. the stick the spurs right into the bulls ribs! any way just look at the out come for the dogs when it comes to dog fighting yes it is HORRIBLE!


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

strongman_atlas said:


> APBTs fought to please their masters never giving up until master says so or death


This statement disturbs me more than anything else when this subject is discussed. No dog is going to fight just "to please his master" and it is one misconception that further fuels the argument of groups like peta and the hsus. The whole point of a scratch is to give the dog the opportunity to continue by his own free will and desire to finish the job. The thought that a dog only fights to impress or please his master only creates an exaggerated image of cruelty and abuse. While *ALLOWING* two dogs to destroy each other is anything but a pretty picture, it is what it is. A true dogman would not leave a game dog in just to be murdered. What the hell good is a dead dog to a dogman? It only makes for a great story. He can't be bred, sold or matched again. Makes a lot more sense than just bringing a dog up to the point of a match just to watch him die for human entertainment. (that's propaganda)


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## game_bred (Jan 3, 2008)

I never fought a dog,but honestly i think it depends on the purpose if its bad or not.Im against dogfighting for entertainment,but if trying to improve breeding stock,i see nothing wrong with it.

When i say improving breeding stock,i mean by breeding only the best game dogs with the best.


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## game_bred (Jan 3, 2008)

The american pitbull is a performance dog,not a show dog bred to be pretty,its bred for gameness.


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

Game Bred your a freaking idiot It's illegal regardless of why someone does it........................ you see nothing wrong with fighting a dog


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

game_bred said:


> The american pitbull is a performance dog,not a show dog bred to be pretty,its bred for gameness.


WAS bred for not is bred for. It is a new age in which dog fighting is not welcome.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Just because something was done in the past and is still going on in parts of the world today does not mean that it is right. Rooster fighting in these parts is a lot bigger than dog fighting, and I've made a lot of people extremely angry by talking about how they use one cock to compensate for the lack of another.

Dog fighting is bad no matter who is doing it. There are other ways to prove lines today that does not include pitting one dog against another. 

I don't know why scientists have such a hard time finding the missing link in the evolution theory. If they would just open their eyes, they would see a lot of people today still have partial monkey brains.


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## strongman_atlas (Feb 17, 2008)

buzhunter said:


> This statement disturbs me more than anything else when this subject is discussed. No dog is going to fight just "to please his master" and it is one misconception that further fuels the argument of groups like peta and the hsus. The whole point of a scratch is to give the dog the opportunity to continue by his own free will and desire to finish the job. The thought that a dog only fights to impress or please his master only creates an exaggerated image of cruelty and abuse. While *ALLOWING* two dogs to destroy each other is anything but a pretty picture, it is what it is. A true dogman would not leave a game dog in just to be murdered. What the hell good is a dead dog to a dogman? It only makes for a great story. He can't be bred, sold or matched again. Makes a lot more sense than just bringing a dog up to the point of a match just to watch him die for human entertainment. (that's propaganda)


Me personally, I have never fought dogs. What I was stating is retained knowledge from reading books on the APBT history. Yea, REAL dogmen (back in the day) wouldn't allow his dog to be murdered, but not every dogman is REAL. Anyways, I TOTALLY agree with you 100%!!!!!

Off subject, but sort of relates... Has anyone heard about that story of a Bull and Terrier that was baited with a bear, fought valiently. Then the handler went to get the bitches litter, gutted the dog to where her guts were hanging out and released her back to the bear where she continued to fight hard until bleeding to death? Long story short he sold ALL the pups in the litter for large profit. (The BITCH was really the handler!) That sux! Might be urban legend though...


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

HMMMM,
I can't figure out for the life of me why it's necessary to prove breeding stock in this manner when it's not even what they are being used for.
If you are breeding for the best puller for example, how is rolling going to tell you how good of a puller you have. That's like wiping before you poop, It don't make any sence..


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Its like wife beating or child abuse.


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

First off, to the original poster... WHERE did you grow up?

Dog fighting sucks. Bottom line. Sucks for the dog, sucks for the owner(s) whose dogs are brutalized and mangled, sucks for the non dog fighting pit owners who's dogs and themselves get stereo typed, sucks for the people who spend all their time fighting BSL, sucks for the taxpayers whose money goes to task forces breaking up fighting rings, sucks for the dog fighters who get caught..etc. etc. Bottom line is that dog fighting sucks for everyone!

And it is stupid. Unlike the poster, I was not raised around dog or chicken fighting, and I am ashamed to admit that while surfing the net I came across a movie produced in America by a bunch of idiot "thugs" called Pit Bull Fights, well curiosity got the best of me and I am ashamed to say that I watched it... and it was stupid as hell. Putting aside all immorality involved in the "sport" it is far less exciting or entertaining than regular human fighting because the dogs just grab a hold and hang off of each other...stupid and wrong. 

Anyone who doesn't see whats wrong with dog fighting, or says "gee whats the big deal" needs to get their head checked and/or go back to school and get an education, including the original thread poster.


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

game_bred said:


> I never fought a dog,but honestly i think it depends on the purpose if its bad or not.Im against dogfighting for entertainment,but if trying to improve breeding stock,i see nothing wrong with it.
> 
> When i say improving breeding stock,i mean by breeding only the best game dogs with the best.


WTF!!


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

roleary said:


> WTF!!


I think we outta give intelligence tests to people prior to allowing them to reproduce to improve the breeding stock of mankind and ween out idiots such as yourself "game bred".


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## divathequeen (Jun 28, 2007)

i grew up in the washington dc area but the rooster fighting was in el salvador also it was in virginia were i think it was still legal


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

divathequeen said:


> i grew up in the washington dc area but the rooster fighting was in el salvador also it was in virginia were i think it was still legal


sorry if I offended you diva, I guess emotion got the best of me, but I hope people look at the big picture and see how the whole country is affected by dog fighting and the degree to which the drawbacks greatly outweigh any type of benefit whether that benefit be entertainment or otherwise.


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

divathequeen said:


> i mean its part of our american,european history i really have no problem with it i mean i dont do it never so dont get the idea i fight dogs. i was raised were i used to go see roosters fight every week which is kinda like fighting dogs in my neighberhood i seen many dogs get rolled. people dont get the wrong idea i dont fight my dog and never will i am just saying i was raised were kids fighting there dogs on the streets was a everyday thing here a pic of my precious
> 
> Do a google image search for dog fighting....look at the pics that come up...... then if you really believe dog fighting is not that bad you are NOT HUMAN and do not deserve to be a PET OWNER!!!!!!


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## divathequeen (Jun 28, 2007)

dont tell me what i deserve you do not no me maybe you dont deserve to be posting i just asked for peoples opinions. I never came on here being rude to anybody.Some people think there so good i have seen post were somebody say that dog owner should die or burn in hell or something if you dont like dogfighting that is alright i dont like it but i can live with it. If people really much rather see a human being suffer than what makes them better than dogfighters.I mean there is way worser things going on in the world you know.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

I think I'll just read...


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

divathequeen said:


> dont tell me what i deserve you do not no me maybe you dont deserve to be posting i just asked for peoples opinions. I never came on here being rude to anybody.Some people think there so good i have seen post were somebody say that dog owner should die or burn in hell or something if you dont like dogfighting that is alright i dont like it but i can live with it. If people really much rather see a human being suffer than what makes them better than dogfighters.I mean there is way worser things going on in the world you know.


I DID NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU DESERVE!!! I made a statement of my opinion and it still is my opinion. If anyone can do a google image search of dog fighting and look at the pictures that come up and think that dog fighting is not bad .... they are not human and do not deserve to be a pet owner! If that offends you I apologize, but it is my opinion. I did not mean it directly toward you , it was more of a general statement. I have seen what dog fighting is and what it does. And in my opinion people who participate in dog fighting or even attend dog fighting events today are monsters instead of people. I understand and have a full knowledge of pitbulls history and NO back in the day when people "rolled" their dogs it is not what it is today. (That does not mean I condone rolling b/c I DO NOT!) Today it is nothing more than a slaughterfest where people are out to see blood and violence and to make money off of it. You cannot compare it to people fighting/ boxing/ wrestling b/c it is not even the same class. It not a test of bravery, it is about nothing more than blood and money. People make choices to do things / dogs are made to do them. They do not have a choice when they get tossed into a ring and another dog comes after them to kill them!!!! It is cruel and animal abuse to force a dog into that position. What would it be like if someone tossed you into a ring with a demented brutal killer who wanted nothing but someones blood and locked you in with them until there was only one of you left????? That is the extent of what happens in dogfighting today!


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## divathequeen (Jun 28, 2007)

im sorry i misunderstood you please accept my apology in my neighberhood rolling was just 2 kids making there dogs fight to see whos fought better both dogs survived ,but when dogmen do it the losing dog is almost certainly destined for death or to be used as a bait dog were it is pretty much a punching bag for the other dog. there were dogmen but they never rolled or fought there dogs out in the open


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

divathequeen said:


> im sorry i misunderstood you please accept my apology in my neighberhood rolling was just 2 kids making there dogs fight to see whos fought better both dogs survived ,but when dogmen do it the losing dog is almost certainly destined for death or to be used as a bait dog were it is pretty much a punching bag for the other dog. there were dogmen but they never rolled or fought there dogs out in the open


apology accepted... a lot of people think dog fighting is what happens when their pets get into a scuffle.... if the injuries sustained were no more than that, then maybe no not a big deal, unfortunately that is just not the case in today's world.... Things like this upset a lot of pitbull owners b/c we live in a world today where we have to fight to keep our dogs.... 
Cities, States, Countries are BANNING our dogs everyday because of ignorant people treating our Beloved Pets this way!!!! From the idiots who fight them and abandon them leaving them half dead for someone else to come along and pick up the pieces, to ignorant owners who are not responsible enough to train them and keep them properly, to morons who teach them to be aggressive....pitbulls are getting a lot of unnecesary negative media attention making people who care about the breed and keep their pets responsibly have a hard time. People hear the word pitbull and get scared stiff, so their answer is "Pitbulls are dangerous get rid of them all!" . Some of us are fighting BSL everyday, and lots of us don't even realize we should be b/c we don't realize it's hitting close to home when it is!!!! Anything that contributes to pitbull's bad image helps BSL and HURTS PITBULL OWNERS!!!!!! 
Sorry if I came on a little strong, but PITBULL OWNERS everywhere need to unite against these negative images to protect the breed!!!!!


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## game_bred (Jan 3, 2008)

gameness is not only good for figthing.A game dog can excel at any task,because of high pain tolerance.


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

"gameness is not only good for figthing.A game dog can excel at any task,because of high pain tolerance."

This is very true! However, I do not agree that it is still ok to fight dogs to improve the breed. We live in a world today where it is not only socially unacceptable but as ILLEGAL in most places. Also people have changed with the times and found newer ways to improve the breed....more humane ways...We must also remember though that dogfighting, pitfighting, "rolling" (whatever you may want to call it) was not illegal then, and the world was a different place than it is now,....
However, back then gameness by "rolling" was the only way people proved their dog (if it was a pitbull) was "Worthy" of breeding..... and it made it's mark on pitbull history! Had this not been done many of the qualities we love about the breed would not exist today. However also as has already been stated "rolling" to test gamenss and dog fighting today are two completely different things! Neither is to be glorified IMO (as also was earlier stated), however the earlier is a part of our dog's history...and this attributes to their bravery, heart, drive, willingness to withstand anything, and LOVE for people.... HA dogs were not tolerated back then and most definately not kept in the gene pool.... why do you think 9 out of 10 pitbulls pass CGC and temperment testing???? Because they are genetically programmed to NOT be aggressive to humans. 
If one cannot accept that as a part of their history then maybe they should look into a different breed?????


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## BlueBull (Dec 6, 2006)

It shouldnt be glamorized but there is a stark contract between "dog fighting" and "dog Matching"... its a vital part of the history of our breed and should be understood.

Dog fighting is what street wretches did (and do)- let two dog rip each other apart and see who lives at the end. In these types of encounters even the winner stood a good chance of passing away as a result of injuries and exaustion.

Dog matching rarely resulted in a fatility on both sides, I wont sugar coat it and say that losers didnt pass on in a lot of cases (not always), But a dog could lose a match and still be considered a winner.

Dog fighting has no rules, two dogs, enpty space, let em go.

Dog matching had a very defined set of rules and protocols. 

Dog fighting and dog matching are both illegal, and in my opinon both are barbaric and anyone that practices either should be put into a cage match and made to fight to a similar end... but at the same time it is the acticyt itself the drove the design and creation of a breed that i am a total nut for so i ahve to respect it for what it was.


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## cherol (Jan 7, 2007)

Also Diva... this is a result of dog fighting.... (however this is not really an example of a "bad fight")



























This is Stella. We were sitting at a gas stationa few months back when we watched a truck driving down the HWY at about 60 mile per hour open the door and kick this dog out of the truck!!!!! She had obviously been fought and her scars will never go away, but she is the most wonderful loving dog you could ever ask for! Why should this dog have had to got hrough any of that????? Is it not cruel for a person to use an animal in such a manner and then throw it away b/c it's time to serve a purpose was past??? Had we not been there to save her this dog would have been put to sleep by the animal shelter. It didn't take 10 minutes for animal control to arrive and try to take her to put her down b/c "she was a pitbull with scars" as they said. However as it is we take her to the park or to Petco and people look at us like we are monsters and some even treat us as such. But I don't really care b/c I know that we saved her and she is happy and safe with us for the rest of her life!!


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## game_bred (Jan 3, 2008)

How can u improve the breed with out rolling.Im not sayin u cant,but could some answer this for me.You certainly cant mprove gameness with out rolling, a dog.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

game_bred said:


> How can u improve the breed with out rolling.Im not sayin u cant,but could some answer this for me.You certainly cant mprove gameness with out rolling, a dog.


It's irrelevant. The breed does not need any improvement. Everyone here can agree that pitbulls are fine just the way they are. So as far as improving it's gameness, I think you need to be more specific. If you're referring to gameness for fighting, even if you have a male and a female that are "Grand Champions" it does not guarantee that all of their offspring will be game.

When someone says that their dog is game, it means that they have fought/rolled/matched their dog and it never quit. If they have not done that, then their dog is not game... for what 'gameness' was originally defined as in the cruel world of dog fighting.


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## litter mates (Jun 5, 2007)

well i have to put my two cents in since i have read all the post. DOG FIGHTING IS WRONG AND ILLEGAL!!!!! THAT IS IT!!! IF YOU ALL DON'T THINK THAT IT'S REALLY NOT THAT BAD WAIT UNTIL THUGS STEAL YOUR DOG AND USE IT FOR A BAIT DOG!!!!:hammer:


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

game_bred said:


> How can u improve the breed with out rolling.Im not sayin u cant,but could some answer this for me.You certainly cant mprove gameness with out rolling, a dog.


Thats just stupid. 
You don't need to improve gameness in any dog. Dog fighting does nothing , but send the wrong message for the breed. We are trying to prove family dogs not killers. As was said the Pitbull is fine and people who keep wanting to improve it and change it our ruining the breed.

portraying our dogs with fighting and aggression is NEVER going to improve the breed.:stick:

Also I wanted to add that any one who thinks dog fighting is ok or even will just look the other way on the subject does not deserve to own a dog.:stick:


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

Game Bred I've said it once and I'll say it again you are the definition of the word idiot. and it's sounds to me like you have either rolled one of your own dogs or have been around people that have and you trying to condone yours/thier actions well no matter how hard you try your not gonna get anyone here to agree with you.............


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

:goodpost:


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

You improve the dogs by breeding only the best that excel in what you are going to use them for. If you're weight pulling, you breed the best pullers. If you're showing, you breed the best show dogs. If you're hunting, you breed the best hunters. If your family and friends want only the best pets, you either spay and neuter the "curs" and sell them, or refer them to the local pound. In today's world, if you want a game dog, you're out of luck. Since dog fighting has been banned since the seventies, none of us should be aware if our dogs are game or even gamebred. We may all have the best of the best game dogs, but there is no way of knowing that. In today's world, if someone advertises game dogs, they are either mis using the term, or complete idiots begging to be caught in illegal acts. You might as well stick a sign on your door saying, "Drugs for sale."


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## game_bred (Jan 3, 2008)

sw_df27 said:


> Game Bred I've said it once and I'll say it again you are the definition of the word idiot. and it's sounds to me like you have either rolled one of your own dogs or have been around people that have and you trying to condone yours/thier actions well no matter how hard you try your not gonna get anyone here to agree with you.............


whatever,u dont even know me.I never said i rolled a dog,so what are u talking about.I never said that gameness needed to be improved.If you knew anything about pitbulls,you would know fighting dogs,has nothing to do with human agression.In fact if you read(if you know how)some richard f stratton books you would know some of the greatest pit dogs were the best all around family dogs.Im not promoting dog fighting what so ever,and i dont care like u said if people agree with what i have to say.If it wasent for the great pit dogs in the past,there wouldent be a pitbull today,their would only be staffordshires.so before calling me a idiot,make sure a newbie to the breed like u has done some research.(when i say if it wasent for the pit dogs,there wouldent be a pitbull i mean,that pitbulls were performance bred game dogs,and the staffordshire is considered a show version of the pitbull).O and if u knew anything u would know matching dogs does not improve gameness,matching dogs determines how to produce gamebred puppies by breeding the best with the best.It is true that it dosent mean u will have a game dog,but it gives u a 50 50 chance that you poseses a game dog.


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

smokey_joe said:


> You improve the dogs by breeding only the best that excel in what you are going to use them for. If you're weight pulling, you breed the best pullers. If you're showing, you breed the best show dogs. If you're hunting, you breed the best hunters. If your family and friends want only the best pets, you either spay and neuter the "curs" and sell them, or refer them to the local pound. In today's world, if you want a game dog, you're out of luck. Since dog fighting has been banned since the seventies, none of us should be aware if our dogs are game or even gamebred. We may all have the best of the best game dogs, but there is no way of knowing that. In today's world, if someone advertises game dogs, they are either mis using the term, or complete idiots begging to be caught in illegal acts. You might as well stick a sign on your door saying, "Drugs for sale."


This statement says it best..JMO


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Glad to see your back BlueBull..


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

game_bred said:


> Im not promoting dog fighting what so ever,and i dont care like u said if people agree with what i have to say


...ok first of all, why don't you learn to write in English and try thinking about what you are writing before you actually write it to avoid constantly contradicting yourself.

When you say that you see nothing wrong with fighting dogs to improve the breeding stock how are you not promoting dog fighting?

even if you don't personally fight dogs to improve stock, by thinking that its ok to do so is being supportive of dogfighting and therefore promoting dog fighting, especially if you are expressing your opinion of thinking its ok to fight dogs on public forums, how could you say this is not promoting dog fighting?

duuuhhh...... like I said, your parents should have been given intelligence tests prior to being allowed to breed so that the rest of us respectable dog owners wouldn't have to suffer because of your ignorance.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

roleary said:


> ...ok first of all, why don't you learn to write in English and try thinking about what you are writing before you actually write it to avoid constantly contradicting yourself.
> 
> When you say that you see nothing wrong with fighting dogs to improve the breeding stock how are you not promoting dog fighting?
> 
> ...


I just had to back this one up with some hell yeah!!!!!
You said it perfectly.
:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

This has been a good debate. you guys made a lot of good points in this discussion. I have to tell you all that we cant stop the rolling and fighting of these dogs. some see them as only a possesion and so misguided that they cant see the loyal and loving dog that would do anything to please their owner, even if the owner is a chump. All I expect out of all of this is that you teach your kids that its not excepted and its wrong. and never take your kids to an animal fight. no matter what your heritage, way of life or beliefs are.

You should make your closing statements before I close this thread on wednesday night. only a few personal attacks were made but we all kept our cool for the most part and I really appreciate it

:goodpost:


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## divathequeen (Jun 28, 2007)

thank you everybody for your opinions


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

> I just had to back this one up with some hell yeah!!!!!
> You said it perfectly.


X2

roleary you said it better then I did!!!!


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## BlueBull (Dec 6, 2006)

litter mates said:


> well i have to put my two cents in since i have read all the post. DOG FIGHTING IS WRONG AND ILLEGAL!!!!! THAT IS IT!!! IF YOU ALL DON'T THINK THAT IT'S REALLY NOT THAT BAD WAIT UNTIL THUGS STEAL YOUR DOG AND USE IT FOR A BAIT DOG!!!!:hammer:


"Bait dogs" are a dog fighting concept... i think the media created the idea and then morons put it into practice. Bait dogs were never used by acutal dogmen.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I have to agree with Dave. The only way we will ever stop dog fighting is with the next generation. Hopefull parents will realize that this is no way to raise our children and compassion will make a comeback.

I want to thank everyone for keeping this thread interesting and keeping the maturity level high. I think that we should be-able to debate everything concerning our dogs and keep it clean. Good job.


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## BlueBull (Dec 6, 2006)

In a historic mindset i agree with gamebred. In todays society I do not.

Smokey-Joe even said it and other agreed- You improve the dogs by breeding only the best that excel in what you are going to use them for. If you're weight pulling, you breed the best pullers. If you're showing, you breed the best show dogs. If you're hunting, you breed the best hunters.

Well the APBT was designed to be a fighter, and you got the best fighter by fighting them. By taking two dogs of a similar weight (in most cases) and having them a peak physical and mental condition allow them to engauge. By taking the most successful dogs to other successful dogs (using the performance in the pit as the stick by which they are measured) they designed our breed. You can hate the activity but you have to respect the product. The APBT is the pinnacle canine athelte because of the way they were bred... a purely performance breed from the start.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

BlueBull said:


> In a historic mindset i agree with gamebred. In todays society I do not.
> 
> Smokey-Joe even said it and other agreed- You improve the dogs by breeding only the best that excel in what you are going to use them for. If you're weight pulling, you breed the best pullers. If you're showing, you breed the best show dogs. If you're hunting, you breed the best hunters.
> 
> Well the APBT was designed to be a fighter, and you got the best fighter by fighting them. By taking two dogs of a similar weight (in most cases) and having them a peak physical and mental condition allow them to engauge. By taking the most successful dogs to other successful dogs (using the performance in the pit as the stick by which they are measured) they designed our breed. You can hate the activity but you have to respect the product. The APBT is the pinnacle canine athelte because of the way they were bred... a purely performance breed from the start.


:goodpost:


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## blondie03044 (Aug 14, 2007)

MY MIKADO said:


> I have to agree with Dave. The only way we will ever stop dog fighting is with the next generation. Hopefull parents will realize that this is no way to raise our children and compassion will make a comeback.
> 
> I want to thank everyone for keeping this thread interesting and keeping the maturity level high. I think that we should be-able to debate everything concerning our dogs and keep it clean. Good job.


well said!!


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## blondie03044 (Aug 14, 2007)

i think its really all about your opinion. yes i think it is wrong to fight dogs but thats just how i was raised. and as MY MIKADO said this is no way to raise your children and the only way anything can stop is with the next generation. i know i dont have much room to talk bein that i dont have children of my own yet but i think we need to teach our children the "true" right and wrong and wrong and egnor(sp) what the media has to say. teach the history behind the issue and leave it behind. it kinda reminds me of slavery we all know it happend and we are tought it in school. we tought the younger generations that its wrong and made sure they knew why its wrong, and look what happened what do ya know they listened


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

blondie03044 said:


> i think its really all about your opinion. yes i think it is wrong to fight dogs but thats just how i was raised. and as MY MIKADO said this is no way to raise your children and the only way anything can stop is with the next generation. i know i dont have much room to talk bein that i dont have children of my own yet but i think we need to teach our children the "true" right and wrong and wrong and egnor(sp) what the media has to say. teach the history behind the issue and leave it behind. it kinda reminds me of slavery we all know it happend and we are tought it in school. we tought the younger generations that its wrong and made sure they knew why its wrong, and look what happened what do ya know they listened


We are still fightig descrimation but at least it is getting better. There will always be those around that think that the old ways of doing things are the only way. We will never change everybodies mind but soon or later you will get one more person to see that fighting or discrimating is wrong and then that person changes someone and the next and the next. Like the rings of a rock tossed into a puddle they just keeping bigger.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

BlueBull said:


> In a historic mindset i agree with gamebred. In todays society I do not.
> 
> Smokey-Joe even said it and other agreed- You improve the dogs by breeding only the best that excel in what you are going to use them for. If you're weight pulling, you breed the best pullers. If you're showing, you breed the best show dogs. If you're hunting, you breed the best hunters.
> 
> Well the APBT was designed to be a fighter, and you got the best fighter by fighting them. By taking two dogs of a similar weight (in most cases) and having them a peak physical and mental condition allow them to engauge. By taking the most successful dogs to other successful dogs (using the performance in the pit as the stick by which they are measured) they designed our breed. You can hate the activity but you have to respect the product. The APBT is the pinnacle canine athelte because of the way they were bred... a purely performance breed from the start.


I agree. ^^^


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Rep points commin at ya SmokeyJoe!!
IMO You said it best, I wanted to say it but couldn't find the right words..
This thread went well, Hope to have many more like it..


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

*Thanks everyone*

this was a really good thread!:goodpost:


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