# Common DA, AA, HA Breeds that AREN'T Pitbull types



## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

We all know the pit bull type breeds are commonly known as potentially being dog agressive though some never show DA through out their lives while others very much do but are still overall happy members of the fam.

Then I got to thinking about other breeds that I've commonly seen being DA as well as HA & AA; from common pure breeds to ocassional mixes. 

Some I've seen quite commonly are poodles, daschunds, malteses & chi's (first examples that popped in my head). Most of which were owned by neighbors, friends or family & the aggression is so unpredictable at times. Yet this is never discussed anywhere really, why? Is it due to an unsound dog or just part of the breed itself since it seems so common?

Where as with the bully breeds you KNOW what to expect 90% of the time (I say 90% because at the end of the day an animal is an animal) & a good owner knows the proper way to avoid 'situations'.

Any input is much appreciated


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I had a dalmatian when I was a kid. He was very dog aggressive, he got along fine with the two females he grew up with though. But any other dogs were fair game. He was intact so that possibly had something to do with it. 

I also agree with dachshunds (sp) I have seen several of those little dogs be very aggressive towards everything. 

You never see small breeds aggression being discussed because people think it is cute and funny and just excuse the behavior. I saw a dachshund chase a little girl and her dad who were walking. The owner was just running after the dog with a rake! WTH? Pick your dog up!


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## cEElint (Oct 6, 2009)

Chow Chows are HA.. my fiance knows from experience ..(got bit in the a$$) .. and my buddy in high school had 2 of them.. i wouldnt step foot in the backyard without him


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Australian cattle dogs can be DA and have some HA. I owned a red male who was both HA and DA. He was a tenacious BA. They are a breed that is naturally suspicious of strangers and mine most definitely was. Akitas are another breed that can be both but DA more than anything. With small dogs like chis, poodles, and yorkies I think alot of them are poorly bred and they are coddled way to much by there owners and aren't treated like "real" dogs but more of an accessory to the owner. Alot of them become HA when in the arms of there owner. I've seen that many of times especially with chis. Some of them turn into gremlins lol!


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

My friend's parents had a chow when I was a kid. I always heard that they were aggressive, but their dog was as sweet as can be.


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## ashes (Jul 7, 2010)

I've heard that Akita's can be DA and HA. But they are beautiful dogs


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

I think that all dogs that are not kept in "check" will resort to these tendancies.
German Shepards, my first dog as a child was my dad's k9 dog. I never knew one that hadnt killed something or bitten someone. Ill have another GSD before too much longer....


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

A lot of my family has GSD's, once again, sweet hearts! lol It is funny how the dogs that tend to have a bad rep tend to be the best dogs and the ones who seem to be the best family dogs can be secretly aggressive.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Dog's who can be DA
Border collies
Rotties
Shepherds
Great Danes
anything little with Napoleon syndrome  ie Chihuahua's
Dobermans
Akitas
Labradoodles
Malinios
little terrier type dogs
Cattle dogs

That's from my experience from the training classes I have had and all the dogs I have seen have issues over the years.

HA is tricky because many times just like the APBT it is bad breeding that Promotes HA.
breeds that I have seen a lot of HA issues with are
German shepherds
Malinios
Chow Chow
Rotties
Dobermans
Labradoodles (seriously they are so over bred by BYB's they have serious issues sometimes)

I am talking about true HA not a dog leery of strangers like a mastiff or cattle dog that is just not liking strangers or being territorial. True HA is an unsound dog not just one who would bite you in the rear if you came on my property. Many times HA is thrown around to describe dogs who could potentially bite but it depends on the situation. A true HA does not care if your on his property or at the pet store, he is a confident dog who's temperament is based on true aggression and just a nasty animal. Fear aggression is not always HA but situational, they would rather run away but if forced to face you will bite. That is not HA that is FA. A territorial dog is not HA I have a perfect example of this. Kaos my old dog bite about 4 people in his life, he was a very confident dog and perfect with people out in public. The problem was he was very territorial and had a huge guardian instinct. All the bites were people that were on my property that did not belong. The reason he is not HA is he is not try and maul anyone he just was protecting his property. He bite the pizza guy who I told not to come into my yard. He opened the gate and Kaos ran out and nailed him in the hand but when the guys showed no threat Kaos backed off and came inside. We had no clue the guy got bit till he came to the door. Kaos was very proud of himself for protecting the house but let the guy keep coming to the door because he was not a threat anymore.
I had some one in my back yard that was suppose to call before they came over to work on the house. They didn't, I let him out and he cornered the worker and kept him there till I got there. He didn't really hurt him just a nip to keep him still till I got there. When I lived in a bad neighbor hood when I was younger he caught a guy and held him still still the cops came. This guy was running through backyards away from the cops and Kaos caught him trying to jump out of our yard. Someone broke into my house and Kaos attacked them and forced them off my property when I loved on 5 acres in the mountains. I came home and my horses were running down the hwy and Kaos was patrolling my yard. I had left him inside and when they opened my door they got a big surprise. Shortly after that he was a little more on edge but got over it in a few months. Poor guy they really beat him up to get him off them and he had to be in the hospital for a few days. A friend of mine jumped my fence and ran up to my house shortly after that and all he heard was someone running up to my house. He ran out and nailed her in the leg then realized it was his auntie and ran back in my house and hid in the shower. lol Now some people would call they HA but it is being territorial not HA. HA is not selective to environment it is consistent anytime some one new is around. I would take another dog like him any time, he kept us safe from strangers but was the biggest love in the world. I feel more vulnerable without my old man protecting my house that I might have to replace him with a rottie or something similar.
Now was his temperament typical for an APBT? no it was not, none of my other dogs are like that he was special. He was heavy Zebo bred and I wonder if that was a factor since some of those dogs are known to be edgier an man biters. Anyway those are some examples of a dog who is territorial vs a HA dog who dislikes everyone all the time and bites without discretion.


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## Temptation Bound Kennels (Oct 10, 2010)

In dog training for the general public I come across this a lot! Most of the dogs dont do any real damage and if they do it is not a news worthy event! There for it never gets stretched out of proportion and blasted to the mindless masses as the TRUTH! I would say that 90% of DA,HA and AA cases i have are pure bred show lines dogs! But that is what happens when people breed for looks ,coat,ped, head, chest,ect... and completely neglect the fundamentals of breeding good dogs! temperament is not even a thought,for many of the breeders health is an afterthought!


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

been bit by a chow chow lol , only dog to ever bite me and was unprovoked. I have seen shephards who have issues with people , a friend of the family owned one and the rule comming into the house was no eye contact, he was mean only dog iv been actually scarred of , { i didnt go there often}. my uncle had a wolf hybrid and he was friendlier then the shephard. alot of little dogs I think could fall into these categories , you just dont hear storys about them as you do the pitbulls cause the injurys are usually alot more minor, and what grown man is gonna talk about the viscious mauling he just took from a yorkie lol. chi's are nasty though my aunts all have them nasty nasty lil dogs lol.


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## cEElint (Oct 6, 2009)

i was bitten in the face by a GSD when i was younger... i was with my grandma on her friends property talking to her friend.. i started to walk to the truck to get something and the dog was following me.. i turned around and he jumped and bite me in the face.. no damage.. just an aggressive nip


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Great info all, keep it coming! 

I find that interesting about the labrodoodles - sad they're the new overbred trend . Americans produce pets like fast food - so sad



redog said:


> I think that all dogs that are not kept in "check" will resort to these tendancies.
> German Shepards, my first dog as a child was my dad's k9 dog. I never knew one that hadnt killed something or bitten someone. Ill have another GSD before too much longer....


GSD's are great protectors. My ex-stepfather adopted one shortly after he married my mom when I was a teen. Made it practically impossible for me to leave the house, not that I was ever aloud out as it was haha. The dog was always hearding me, my brothers, Mom together in the living room. If we weren't I remember him getting bitey, which wouldn't been a big deal if I wasn't allergic to him.

Sadly one night he went after my cat who wasn't spayed & just had kittens (unfortunately) & went for my stepdad by accident when he intervened... It was the last I saw of him. there's more to the story about that dog but that's another topic.

He is beautiful now 14 & being taken care of by my mom.

They are great dogs if properly trained & kept active.

I can fortunately say I've never been bit by a dog except for on the shoe by ankle biters etc... & snapped at by my moms dachschund. Though i've almost been bitten by geese & ducks, again another story for another time.



cEElint said:


> i was bitten in the face by a GSD when i was younger... i was with my grandma on her friends property talking to her friend.. i started to walk to the truck to get something and the dog was following me.. i turned around and he jumped and bite me in the face.. no damage.. just an aggressive nip


Oooh  Sorry to hear. Lucky he didn't go any further


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## ashes (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm also seeing a lot of Golden Retrievers being very DA?? Over breeding maybe??? We have a ton on my block and all have gotten into fights and some more than once. One jumped over her fence to attack a lady walking her pekingese. I knokw one Golden on my block was daughter of my neighbor's golden retrievers they were breeding and they weren't the nicest dogs! I was playing catch with my brother once and the ball went near their gate as I bent over they were barking like crazy but I thought they were all bark lol As I went to grab the ball one of the golden's stuck his paw outside the gate and scratched my face :/ luckily it was on my nose but very close to my eye!


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## Angie (Jul 2, 2010)

Asian dogs have a long history of DA, AA and HA but they can be controlled. My grandma had a jindo and she would go around hunting deers, killing other dogs when they came by and would go after people that came on to the property. But when my grandma would tell her stop she would stop dead in the tracks. Chows are "aggressive" but never to their owners. Asian dogs were bred to be very aloof with all strangers and animals.

I see a lot of little dogs with aggression to every living thing. I call it little dog syndrome and it affects the owners. They let their little dog get away with everything and never exercise them since they're tiny. I had a friend that believed her chihuahua never had to be walked because she was so small and she can just walk around the house.

AND FINALLY I see a lot of working dogs are "aggressive" like German Shepherds, ACD, Border Collies etc because they don't get enough physical and mental exercise and they go... insane?

A lot of the popular breeds have issues (bulldogs, cocker spaniels, labs, goldens) due to BYB's breeding hell out of the dogs regardless of mental issues.


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

i was bitten badly by a gsd while setting in a lazy boy chair when i was about 7 
that dog grabbed my hand and rag-dolled me .
my friend had a cane corso that was super HA


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Neo's are very HA, I heard they are War Dogs.

I don't trust many other breeds, I've been bit bad by a malteese, he is SAVAGE everytime I walk into the house he is trying to attack me! I never leave the couch, unless Im leaving. And he doesn't even get in trouble for it!


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## Angie (Jul 2, 2010)

MISSAPBT said:


> Neo's are very HA, I heard they are War Dogs.
> 
> I don't trust many other breeds, I've been bit bad by a malteese, he is SAVAGE everytime I walk into the house he is trying to attack me! I never leave the couch, unless Im leaving. And he doesn't even get in trouble for it!


That's EXACTLY why little dogs are so vicious! They never get in trouble for anything they do which is totally unfair D:


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## Luvum (Nov 11, 2010)

I have had many problems with Golden Retrievers. 

My daughter was bitten in the stomach by a neighbor's golden for no reason. It was walking down the street with it's owner and suddenly ran at her and bit her in our front yard.

When I took Gracie to obedience class, the most aggressive and out of control dog there was golden.

A couple of weeks ago I was walking Gracie down the street and we were charged by a golden who's owner never said one word to us by way of an apology.

My step sister's golden normally growls when ever people walk by it.

I could probably go on and on. I have never had a good experience with one of those dogs. Sad to say, but I just don't trust Golden Retrievers and would never own one.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Towards the end of my grooming career I started seeing ALOT of aggressive Golden retrievers. I had one lunge at me when the owner was walking it over to me and I nicely said to the owner......you can turn around and walk out the door because I am not touching your dog  I got bit by a Chi, Rottweiler, and my aunts Australian Shepherd. I also was bitten by a German shepherd when I was 11 over my aunts friends house and my aunt was bitten as well.....It was totally unprovoked to! Dog took a chunk right out my @ss!! Then I went home and hugged my German shepherd and told Sachem to go beat him up LOL!! 

Little dogs from the majority I see are never properly socialized or trained. They all have napoleon complex to. I hate miniature pinchers! Aggressive little suckers!


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

My neighbors Doberman got me when I was a kid. totally out of no where, wicked scary. The golden in my hood now runs it. Always off leash and attacked my pup and went after my sister when she walked by, without my dog. 

But the owner swears he is super friendly!! loser, lol..


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## snsg2h (Mar 26, 2011)

I own 2 chows as well as my 2 pits and my folks raised us with chows. Chows, Akitas, and Jindos are all VERY similar. They are not naturally human aggressive. They are naturally shy and have quiet personalities and are devoted to their family and great with children. They do not read or communicate like Pitbulls or Labradors. They are much quieter and they actually typically do not bite unless they feel threatened. Unlike a pitbull or a rottie who will growl and show teeth to warn you that you are too close to them or their territory, a chow keeps silent. Many people assume all dogs are the same and therefore just because the chow is not growling and showing teeth they try to pet it or continue into their territory and they get bit. In order for a chow, akita, or jindo to be very human friendly, socialization must start VERY early! My previous chow just passed away and she was in love with every human because I socialized her very well. The two chows we have now are both rescues and were not socialized early so they are a little shy around new people but I have been working VERY hard with them -taking them to vet offices to be handled/pet/given treats, and they are doing fantastic and they LOVE other dogs! All dogs are different and not every breed reads the same way - people don't pay attention to the quiet dogs and just assume everything is ok just because the dog is not barking. If not socialized from the beginning I believe any dog can be human and dog aggressive but from my experience (x-groomer) I would say that Shepherds, ALL terrier breeds, herding breeds(corgis,border collies), dachshunds, chows, akitas, Rotties and Dobies can all be more HA if not socialized early. I would say all terrier breeds are more prone to DA. Ok...JMO...


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## snsg2h (Mar 26, 2011)

Oh! I almost forgot to ad - Golden Retrievers! My pits and chows have been attacked by several goldens at dog parks... they are so overbred...of course since they are a Golden its all ok and they don't have to leave the park, but God forbid if one of my pits starts playing a little rough.. (my pits have NEVER had an issue with another dog, they are very submissive to them)


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Great feedback ya'll...

Here's another question I have. What sets Pitbulls apart from other breeds when it comes to DA, while HA is practically a nonexistant occurance. Whereas other breeds HA,AA,DA seem to be quite common - almost as if it's something to expect from the breed. As MISSAPBT said above, maltese's can be viscious little f'ers & if they were as strong as any large docile breed they could do some serious damage. I've never met a stable maltese that didn't just flip out at random. No offense to those of you whom may own a maltese. But to be bred that small it seems to have something more to do with their temperment.

The whole aggression thing has me quite puzzled overall & can't distinguish why it's normal for one breed to have it & not the other & hard for me to put into words what I'm asking. *Is it due to poorly socialized at puppy hood, poor breeding, selective breeding, physical & mental health issues, the list goes on.*
The pitbull seems like the most stable temperment you can count on, knowing what to expect & I feel like we need more research on other breeds, I'm sure most can agree? Like more breeds need to be labeled for the AA, HA, DA instead of being swept under the rug - or is it simply due to over breeding? If so, how does this relate to the pitbull type breeds in a positive light? Not sure if I make sense?


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

snsg2h said:


> Oh! I almost forgot to ad - Golden Retrievers! My pits and chows have been attacked by several goldens at dog parks... they are so overbred...of course since they are a Golden its all ok and they don't have to leave the park, but God forbid if one of my pits starts playing a little rough.. (my pits have NEVER had an issue with another dog, they are very submissive to them)


PIT BULLS should never go to dog parks. And chows don't belong there either. You are setting your dogs up for failure by bringing them there. It is in a pit bull to become or be dog aggressive.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Blue_Nose_Bella said:


> PIT BULLS should never go to dog parks. And chows don't belong there either. You are setting your dogs up for failure by bringing them there. It is in a pit bull to become or be dog aggressive.


I agree, dog parks are not a great place, for any dog. Not to mention diseases. Buts that's another topic for another thread


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Lex's Guardian said:


> I agree, dog parks are not a great place, for any dog. Not to mention diseases. Buts that's another topic for another thread


Yes, and we all know how many of those threads there are lol!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

This is why when you HA you are talking about dogs who no matter the breed are unsound and will bite unprovoked. Most stories here are about dogs who are aggressive but because they are territorial or have guardian traits. It is not acceptable in any breed to be truly HA but it is acceptable to be a guardian and attack people who come into their territory. That is why you see dogs run at someone and attack them when they walk in front of the dogs house. That is being territorial not HA. GSD for example while originally bred for herding were also then selected to be be guardians and that trait was bred into them. They are also selected for good nerves and some aggression. They make great K9 dogs because they are great with families (most of them) and general public but will go after people with great aggression if asked to do so. Aggression has many meaning and more than I want to go into with the thread but it has it's place with some breeds. Just like the Mastiffs, some of them were war dogs and would run into battle with their handlers and have heavy armor on and attack the enemy in great numbers. If you ever want an interesting read, read some of the mastiff war dog stories. HOLY COW! How you like to see 1,000 upon 1,000 of armored mastiffs running at you in war!

When we see bad temperaments like in Golden's or lab or other breeds it has to do with breeding. Just like with the APBT's bad breeding effects all breeds and their temperaments. Some show people do not care about temperament as they do creating the next "perfect" dog so they can have temperament issues. Then you have the BYB's who will breed anything to anything to make a buck. Even if they have the best intentions they can still make a mess of the breeds.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

im honestly shocked that Tosa Inu, Fila Brasileiro, Presa Canario, Cane Corso, Ca De Bou, Boerboel have not been mentioned. Tosa, notorious dog fighter in japan, the others people use for dog fighting but more commonly PP and guarding. IMO you can't have well bred guard dog without some HA bred into them. Also as these dog breeds get more well known and more sought after the BYB's come into the picture and you start seeing heavy DA, AA and HA all into one.. Unfortunately, hopefully it doesnt get much worse than it has already for these breeds because the same will happen to them as what has and is happening to the apbt.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> im honestly shocked that Tosa Inu, Fila Brasileiro, Presa Canario, Cane Corso, Ca De Bou, Boerboel have not been mentioned. Tosa, notorious dog fighter in japan, the others people use for dog fighting but more commonly PP and guarding. IMO you can't have well bred guard dog without some HA bred into them. Also as these dog breeds get more well known and more sought after the BYB's come into the picture and you start seeing heavy DA, AA and HA all into one.. Unfortunately, hopefully it doesnt get much worse than it has already for these breeds because the same will happen to them as what has and is happening to the apbt.


:goodpost: I forgot about the Presa....That was the breed that killed Diane Whipple in California 7 or more years ago. I remember after the mauling breeders of the Presa's where getting flooded with calls by idiots to get one. They had even interviewed a couple who breeds them and they were no longer going to breed because to many people were coming to them that wanted an aggressive dog. Goes to show what a sick world we live in. I have known a few people with fila's whose houses you couldn't even go to until the dogs were crated behind locked doors..........scary ish!


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## snsg2h (Mar 26, 2011)

I have had pitbulls my whole life - grew up with them and we have always taken them to the dog parks. Sure a lot of folks will agree with you on never taking these dogs to dog parks but we have never had a problem - never. Call us "lucky" or "dumb" if you want but I believe in well rounded socialized dogs. I do understand that pits have a tendency to fight but this does not mean that all pitbulls are natural killers..... Anyway, one of my pits is 7 years old and he loves other dogs, loves to be chased and is a great role model for pitbulls. The human has to be the one in control, I would not take my dogs to the park if I did not feel in complete control of the dog. Sure, dogs like Goldens have attacked him and he rolls on his back. We have done a lot of work with our dogs in teaching them to ignore aggression and it works! 
Oh! haha, I forgot to mention that I just dog-sat a little Westie and boy was he aggressive! He wanted to kill everyone...
Anywho, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and why they raise their pits the way they do.


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

snsg2h said:


> I have had pitbulls my whole life - grew up with them and we have always taken them to the dog parks. Sure a lot of folks will agree with you on never taking these dogs to dog parks but we have never had a problem - never. Call us "lucky" or "dumb" if you want but I believe in well rounded socialized dogs. I do understand that pits have a tendency to fight but this does not mean that all pitbulls are natural killers..... Anyway, one of my pits is 7 years old and he loves other dogs, loves to be chased and is a great role model for pitbulls. The human has to be the one in control, I would not take my dogs to the park if I did not feel in complete control of the dog. Sure, dogs like Goldens have attacked him and he rolls on his back. We have done a lot of work with our dogs in teaching them to ignore aggression and it works!
> Oh! haha, I forgot to mention that I just dog-sat a little Westie and boy was he aggressive! He wanted to kill everyone...
> Anywho, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and why they raise their pits the way they do.


Some are not DA on the outside but , be prepaired if the right trigger happens .. if another dog pushes the mthe wrong way all hell breaks lose and it will always be the pitbulls fault. my lil sidney at 38 lbs taught me how that can happen and also how fast a pit can rough up another dog .. even one much larger... even if your dog is an angel like sid .. another wont be and you cant expect them not to defend themselves.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

snsg2h said:


> I have had pitbulls my whole life - grew up with them and we have always taken them to the dog parks. Sure a lot of folks will agree with you on never taking these dogs to dog parks but we have never had a problem - never. Call us "lucky" or "dumb" if you want but I believe in well rounded socialized dogs. I do understand that pits have a tendency to fight but this does not mean that all pitbulls are natural killers..... Anyway, one of my pits is 7 years old and he loves other dogs, loves to be chased and is a great role model for pitbulls. The human has to be the one in control, I would not take my dogs to the park if I did not feel in complete control of the dog. Sure, dogs like Goldens have attacked him and he rolls on his back. We have done a lot of work with our dogs in teaching them to ignore aggression and it works!
> Oh! haha, I forgot to mention that I just dog-sat a little Westie and boy was he aggressive! He wanted to kill everyone...
> Anywho, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and why they raise their pits the way they do.


Theres no tendency, the American Pit Bull Terrier was BRED specifically for being loyal and friendly to humans and to fight till the death with tails wagging in the dog pits of the time periods. I HIGHLY doubt you have had American Pit Bull Terriers your entire life and not once owned a DA dog, i know that this may aggravate you or others on this forum for putting it so bluntly but it needs to be said. Owning this breed and not having DA would put that dog in maybe the 5% that never show signs from birth to death. You can't "train out of" dog aggression with this breed because its not just something that happens, its genetic.

Now of course in modern days people can't (legally) test the drive of these dogs anymore (dog fighting and no im not saying im for the sport because im not) so that 5% i mentioned might be a tad bit higher now that many breeders are breeding more for show now with the breed vs drive and gameness. However to undue centuries of genetic DA takes longer than a few decades and not THAT many breeders are meaning to do it, it just slowly happens.

I could believe a little more that perhaps you have owned American Bullies your entire life or even American Staffies (which is even a stretch but DA is a bit more controllable in general with this breed) but i cant believe a person would grow up and own the APBT their whole life and never run into a prime example of the breed which does include genetic DA. I have grown up with this breed owning both mixes and purebred APBT's and i can tell you 100% ive never owned one that didnt have DA eventually. Whether its 1 years old or 12 years old.

Another thing you mentioned was socialization.. A dog doesn't need to play with other dogs to be socialized, in fact playing with other dogs has zero to do with socialization. To socialize a dog means you are constantly allowing them to experience new sights, smells and noises throughout puppy hood and into adult hood. A well adjusted, socialized dog will not freak out over something that may be a little new and will be very self confident.

Im sorry if i have spelling errors or thoughts running into each other, doing 3 things at once right now and running off very little sleep. I hope my point is clear though!


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

As a groomer I see lots of nasty little buggers! We usually have super sweet goldens but lately we have had some pretty rotten Goldens in there... one of our usuals is super sweet but he musta got the stink eye from a lab that was also there at the same time and the golden went after the lab... luckily the lab was dumb as a box of rocks and just wandered off while i drug the golden away... agh. 

anyways, not that i have experienced it personally but i have heard that chows and dalmations are HA. I have only met 2 nice Cocker Spaniels the rest have either bitten me or tried in vain to bite me.... Lhasa Apso's also are completely bonkers.....


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Good Post KM dog's ...

I don't understand why people have to make a personal investigation on this subject until their stroke of what they call luck runs out. These dog's are bred for DA what that means is they are genetically wired to fight with other animals. They all turn on at different points, and they all have different trigger's. But one things for sure they all share the same DNA so why are APBT owner's continuing to go against the grain pressing their luck until the  finally hit's the fan and your left looking like a fool? It would be different if we didn't have the resources and the knowledge passed down to us by old dog men. There is just no excuse anymore for those who know these dog's are DA to put them in a potentially dangerous situation to prove a point to the public that these dog's can coexist with other animals like any other non dog aggressive breed. Because they are not like every other breed nor were they bred like every other bred. Why get these dogs if your not going to care for them properly and keep them safe? This breed's reputation in the eyes of media and public cannot afford another accident or mishap. I wish people would get their heads out of their arse's and start looking at reality these dog's have no place in a dog park period. You want a dog to stroll along in the dog parks off the lead to play with all the cute little dogs get another breed! You don't take a dog aggressive breed to the dog park for crying out loud this is so simple it's absurd that people don't get it!!! If you wanted a dog that could play with lot's of other dog's without having to worry about a potential fight, or worse a dead dog on your hands my friend you picked the wrong breed. They don't call em bulldog's for nothing.


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## ashes (Jul 7, 2010)

Yea I've heard of cocker spaniel's being nasty I have one and lucky for me he's the nicest dog ever! He LOVES people and other dogs. And I've also witnessed the golden's next door to me roaming around because for some reason the owner thinks it's wise??? And they went after a lady and her baby these goldens don't like kids at all which makes me laugh since they are good dogs with kids or at least that is what is known about them.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> im honestly shocked that Tosa Inu, Fila Brasileiro, Presa Canario, Cane Corso, Ca De Bou, Boerboel have not been mentioned. Tosa, notorious dog fighter in japan, the others people use for dog fighting but more commonly PP and guarding. IMO you can't have well bred guard dog without some HA bred into them. Also as these dog breeds get more well known and more sought after the BYB's come into the picture and you start seeing heavy DA, AA and HA all into one.. Unfortunately, hopefully it doesnt get much worse than it has already for these breeds because the same will happen to them as what has and is happening to the apbt.


When I say mastiff I was including them, I guess I consider them more mastiff type dogs but good point in mentioning all the breeds.



snsg2h said:


> I have had pitbulls my whole life - grew up with them and we have always taken them to the dog parks. Sure a lot of folks will agree with you on never taking these dogs to dog parks but we have never had a problem - never. Call us "lucky" or "dumb" if you want but I believe in well rounded socialized dogs. I do understand that pits have a tendency to fight but this does not mean that all pitbulls are natural killers..... Anyway, one of my pits is 7 years old and he loves other dogs, loves to be chased and is a great role model for pitbulls. The human has to be the one in control, I would not take my dogs to the park if I did not feel in complete control of the dog. Sure, dogs like Goldens have attacked him and he rolls on his back. We have done a lot of work with our dogs in teaching them to ignore aggression and it works!
> Oh! haha, I forgot to mention that I just dog-sat a little Westie and boy was he aggressive! He wanted to kill everyone...
> Anywho, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and why they raise their pits the way they do.


This is what happened after 8 years of peaceful living together with another one of my dogs. I have also had dogs live just fine with each other for 7 years then try and kill each other one day. Just because you have never had a problem does not mean something may not happen in the future. It is irresponsible to think nothing will ever happen and it is a shame that type of thinking is what makes headlines.








http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/35933-yard-accient-warning-multiple-dogs.html

A good role model for pit bulls is one who is realistic and embraces the DA of side of the breed and educates accordingly. It is irresponsible to portray them as good dog friendly dogs. I have great role models for the APBT's but I always inform people about the DA side of the breed when they ask about them.


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## snsg2h (Mar 26, 2011)

In response to KM dogs: Its alright if you "HIGHLY" doubt my ownership of the pit for my whole life. You are correct, we have owned all three: Pits, Bullies and Staffies. 

It is not like I take them to the park ever day as their socialization. It is about once a month and is only a small part of their socialization. I would never recommend it as a regular thing for ANY dog as dog parks are typically crazy places full of too much excitement which could cause many DA pitbulls to get into fights. I believe pitbulls are first and foremost DOGS. Dogs are social animals that live with other dogs. Yes every breed was bred for a specific purpose but this does not change their true first identity as a dog. Yes, they have a tendency to fight but no dog was born to fight - it is people who forced it into them. When they crossed the bulldogs with the terriers it did not result suddenly in a vicious killer dog - they trained it to become that way, giving the dog no other choice. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinions and I agree that dog parks are not a good place to go on a regular basis.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

snsg2h said:


> In response to KM dogs: Its alright if you "HIGHLY" doubt my ownership of the pit for my whole life. You are correct, we have owned all three: Pits, Bullies and Staffies.
> 
> It is not like I take them to the park ever day as their socialization. It is about once a month and is only a small part of their socialization. I would never recommend it as a regular thing for ANY dog as dog parks are typically crazy places full of too much excitement which could cause many DA pitbulls to get into fights. I believe pitbulls are first and foremost DOGS. Dogs are social animals that live with other dogs. Yes every breed was bred for a specific purpose but this does not change their true first identity as a dog. Yes, they have a tendency to fight but no dog was born to fight - it is people who forced it into them. When they crossed the bulldogs with the terriers it did not result suddenly in a vicious killer dog - they trained it to become that way, giving the dog no other choice. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinions and I agree that dog parks are not a good place to go on a regular basis.


There is so much wrong in this im not going to bother, we aren't talking opinion its fact however i can see your not going to get it until the obvious happens. hopefully when it does your not the last strike in your area and BSL doesnt come into enforcement.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> There is so much wrong in this im not going to bother, we aren't talking opinion its fact however i can see your not going to get it until the obvious happens. hopefully when it does your not the last strike in your area and BSL doesnt come into enforcement.


:goodpost: agreed! 100%


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

snsg2h said:


> In response to KM dogs: Its alright if you "HIGHLY" doubt my ownership of the pit for my whole life. You are correct, we have owned all three: Pits, Bullies and Staffies.
> 
> It is not like I take them to the park ever day as their socialization. It is about once a month and is only a small part of their socialization. I would never recommend it as a regular thing for ANY dog as dog parks are typically crazy places full of too much excitement which could cause many DA pitbulls to get into fights. I believe pitbulls are first and foremost DOGS. Dogs are social animals that live with other dogs. Yes every breed was bred for a specific purpose but this does not change their true first identity as a dog. Yes, they have a tendency to fight but no dog was born to fight - it is people who forced it into them. When they crossed the bulldogs with the terriers it did not result suddenly in a vicious killer dog - they trained it to become that way, giving the dog no other choice. Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinions and I agree that dog parks are not a good place to go on a regular basis.


Then you have truly never owned a REAL american pit bull terrier but rather petbulls or mixes.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

My family had a Border Collie growing up who was DA.
Tried to pick a fight with a Rottie once....Thank God the Rot was friendly.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

This person talking about the DP reminds me of the other girl I tried talking to about those parks,and her APBT. I kept telling her it might not be her dog that starts the fight,but it will finish it. She was like blah blah blah,never had a problem,My dog likes other dogs blahblah....
I gave her all the Cons of taking her pitty to a dog park.
She didn't listen. 2 weeks later I get an e-mail apologizing to me,and how she should have listened,cause now she has a $700 vet bill,and a dog with a broken toe,and a German Shepard with a gaping wound(not her dog).
The Shepard started it....But yeah....We all know who came out worse in the end.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> Then you have truly never owned a REAL american pit bull terrier but rather petbulls or mixes.


Even mixes (if its 50-50) are going to carry the make up to be DA, Kilie is mixed but shes as DA as any of the purebreds and started showing around 8 months. But i do get what you were saying. :goodpost:

Im all for people with enough knowledge promoting and bringing up awareness of the breed to the public, however it seems like 99% of the people doing this ambassador work have no business doing so. "My APBT goes to dog parks all the time/sometimes and he loves other dogs!" and "Its all in how you raise them", i know that this may not be the topic but its turning into this type of thread, at least at this time.

Time to get over yourselves people, if your not going to be responsible don't own this breed.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Great responses all!

Okay - we all know the APBT IS a DA breed & in others opinions dog parks are a BIG no no. But It's on that person alone if they want to take their dog to a dog park & learn the hard way. To each their own.

But can we please stay on topic . I don't want a thread getting closed over the topic of dog parks - that's beating a dead horse. Some ppl never experience a DA APBT. While others do...

THank you 



meganc66 said:


> As a groomer I see lots of nasty little buggers! We usually have super sweet goldens but lately we have had some pretty rotten Goldens in there... one of our usuals is super sweet but he musta got the stink eye from a lab that was also there at the same time and the golden went after the lab... luckily the lab was dumb as a box of rocks and just wandered off while i drug the golden away... agh.
> 
> anyways, not that i have experienced it personally but i have heard that chows and dalmations are HA. I have only met 2 nice Cocker Spaniels the rest have either bitten me or tried in vain to bite me.... Lhasa Apso's also are completely bonkers.....


I bet you experience quite a handful of different types of aggression on a daily basis, thank for sharing


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## Diesel Dogs (Apr 11, 2011)

I think any dog can be any of the above at any given time.
I've had American bulldogs, pits, Australian shepherds, Rottweiler, Dalmatian mix, and lived with various other dogs of roommates. Mostly other pits.

A lot of it has to do with ownership. I gave a beautiful dog to a friend, American Bulldog mix. Left my house @ 88lbs and tremendous shape, got along with everything except his brother. I got him back @ over 120 lbs of pissed of sausage. He bit a family member pretty bad over a noise. It just depends.


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## Diesel Dogs (Apr 11, 2011)

I just went back and read some of these posts. Why is there so much negativity between others and a difference of opinion? Some say fact but at the end of the day its all opinion based off of difference of experiences. No reason imo to be negative towards others.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Diesel Dogs said:


> I just went back and read some of these posts. Why is there so much negativity between others and a difference of opinion? Some say fact but at the end of the day its all opinion based off of difference of experiences. No reason imo to be negative towards others.


Genetic DA is not opinion, its fact.

APBT's shouldnt be in dog parks, that is also not opinion its fact. Knowing the breed history and being responsible with that history and what the dogs were bred for, etc is fact.

Its not opinion based off experiences, its fact based on what this breed was originally meant for and how much of that genetically speaking is still in the breed regardless of if its still tested or proven in todays apbt's.

Thats just like a debate i saw of Fila owners. Those dogs are not for everyone and they are definitely not a breed for a novice. If properly bred they are also not a breed you just take out every where with you either. Its the same concept with different set of rules. APBT + other dogs = negative out come. (sooner or later, it all ends the same)

It is a HUGE deal for owners when we have BSL. Every single situation where an APBT or any bull and terrier breed attacks a person due to breeding/neglect or a dog can be a direct impact on this breed when it comes to regulations/laws/etc.

I know its not exactly on topic and for that i apologize however to ignore something that has the potential of being THAT sever is just as dangerous. As others say this topic has been beating to death and beyond but its apparent it needs to be. Continuously. More and more new owners of these dogs (and other breeds) dive right in without the proper knowledge and as a result sooner or later effects everyone. Properly educated/experienced or not. To assume it doesn't is just as ignorant.

Your right, theyre dog and they DO have the right to do as they please. However at the same time your wrong when one wrong step affects so many other people. If it hasn't affected you how long do you think that can continue? BSL is spreading like wild fire right now.

DA/HA genetic breeds all have a rightful place with rightful owners. We are not talking about small all friendly breeds on this thread. To believe any person can own these breeds is just plain wrong.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Diesel Dogs said:


> I just went back and read some of these posts. Why is there so much negativity between others and a difference of opinion? Some say fact but at the end of the day its all opinion based off of difference of experiences. No reason imo to be negative towards others.


Good question! your answer is below 



KMdogs said:


> Genetic DA is not opinion, its fact.
> 
> APBT's shouldnt be in dog parks, that is also not opinion its *fact*. Knowing the breed history and being responsible with that history and what the dogs were bred for, etc is *fact*.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Just adding a few breeds I didn't see when I scanned through. 

Central Asian Ovcharka
Caucasian Ovcharka
Bouvier Des Flandres
Sivas Kangal Dog
Bully Kutta
Tibetan Mastiff
Sarplaninac
Giant Schnauzer 

But they shouldn't bite unless provoked like stated, guardian breeds are generally very wary of strangers and will guard property but shouldn't bite unprovoked.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Maybe I should take my game bred dog's to the dog park and let them loose. LMAO!!! What a great example to set for the breed we all want to claim the responsible owner title but some of us don't want to live by example. Boy I tell you ya'll keep messing around they are going to ban these dogs for good. Is it really worth it for a GD dog park?? I don't get it how people some how believe they are above this breeds genetics and are willing to roll the dice on these dogs. It's so freaking disturbing to me it's unreal! I wish my ban stick worked everywhere in the world I would make sure the idiots couldn't get their hands on these dogs. When you decide to make stupid choices with your dog's it's a chain reaction that affects my dog's as well when your dog's genetics kick in and attacks and kills another dog my dog's pay the price for your foolishness. I am fighting for my dog's everyday and people like you come behind me and screw it up.


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

I agree Sadie. Even if you don't own a APBT or bully breed dog parks are a bad place to go. You have no control over who brings their dogs and you don't know any of the dogs. If you're going to try and socialize your animal to be dog friendly, set up small controlled play dates with dogs you know.

I personally just worry about teaching my dogs to focus on me instead of trying to socialize the crap out of them. But that's just me.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Diesel Dogs said:


> I think any dog can be any of the above at any given time.
> I've had American bulldogs, pits, Australian shepherds, Rottweiler, Dalmatian mix, and lived with various other dogs of roommates. Mostly other pits.
> 
> A lot of it has to do with ownership. I gave a beautiful dog to a friend, American Bulldog mix. Left my house @ 88lbs and tremendous shape, got along with everything except his brother. I got him back @ over 120 lbs of pissed of sausage. He bit a family member pretty bad over a noise. It just depends.


That's exactly what I think! Most of what I read on here I take into consideration that it's just an opinion vs. FACT (aside from APBT's & the possibility of DA showing is fact). There isn't enough scientific research to back anything up IMO & all dogs are capable of just about anything. 
A dog's reflects his/her master.



Diesel Dogs said:


> I just went back and read some of these posts. Why is there so much negativity between others and a difference of opinion? Some say fact but at the end of the day its all opinion based off of difference of experiences. No reason imo to be negative towards others.


:goodpost::goodpost:

As for the dog park thing, you guys said your piece about dp facts, let the other member make their mind up & leave it be. No sense in arguing over it

Difference of opinion are going to happen.GET OVER YOURSELF PUMPKINS 

The reason I posted this thread is to find out about MORE breeds that show DA or the possibility of other types of aggression... Not to go back & forth over dog parks, it's so freaking annoying to ready the animosity in those posts & really not another members business & has nothing to do with this thread topic.



Celestial88 said:


> Just adding a few breeds I didn't see when I scanned through.
> 
> Central Asian Ovcharka
> Caucasian Ovcharka
> ...


:goodpost: thanks for sharing.


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