# Bernie is freaking me out !!! what can this be?



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I have never seen this type of behavior in my dog before and i do not know what to think of it. Bernie was laying next to my wife and the baby facing the door and then he started growling towards the door kind of like staring at a spot on the ceiling. I did not think anything of it since he does growl at night when he hears noise outside and the day before it was 4th of july and the fireworks set him off. Anyhow, last night he was laying on the couch next to me and started staring towards the TV and started growling again. This time I corrected him and sent him to this bed. A few minutes after laying on his bed he started the same growl again, this growl is not directed at anyone, he is just laying there growling so I put him to sleep for the night. 


I woke up this morning and thought to my self if he does this again I am going to be very stern and correct him immediately in a more dominant way. So he did it once this morning and i raised my voice and he stopped. after a while he was fine and then he was just laying on his bed and started growling again, my wife said he was looking down at the floor growling. 


I am very concerned about this behavior, he has never resource guarded, nor shown any kind of growling or barking at any of us. Has anyone experience anything like this before? I am really clueless and I have no idea what to do. I can't put my wife or my baby's life in danger if there is something wrong with Bernie.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Aside from the fireworks has anything changed recently? Have you noticed any other odd behavior along with what you already mentioned but perhaps wrote it off as something else? Also when he does it is he fixated on anything in particular or will he do it just looking in a general area but still acknowledging his surroundings?


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> Aside from the fireworks has anything changed recently? Have you noticed any other odd behavior along with what you already mentioned but perhaps wrote it off as something else? Also when he does it is he fixated on anything in particular or will he do it just looking in a general area but still acknowledging his surroundings?


I dont think anything has changed, the growling is not fixated at any of the animals or us. Just before he growled at the ground....?? this is freaking me out. I was reading about onset aggression but I thought this happened when the dog is sleeping and goes into some kind of aggressive seizure?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

So he is now growling at you or the family, it could be something he is hearing outside off in the distance. Sometimes my dogs do that and it bugs the crap out of me.

Kaos my old male use to growl and it was more of his personality than anything else. Can you give more detail? or what about, if he growls let him outside and see if he alerts to something. My guess would be he is hearing something, if he is growling at the floor it is possible something got under your house or in the walls? Dogs can even detect termites and for this reason I do not know if hard correction is what I would do.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

I would take him in to see the vet. Mack Truck used to do that before the seizures started. He would look up at the sky or down towards the ground at something that wasn't there. It was never directed at people or other animals it was kinda like he was seeing things. I really hope that it is nothing serious but I'd have him checked anyway. Does he ever act like he's confused in places he shouldn't?

*Edit, Lisa has a good point, if you have mice in the wall or under the house his doggy ears could hear that.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I had a dog who would do this .. He would run out to pee and growl and bark as soon as he hit the grass peeing. He would growl just to growl but he was not growling at me or any person in the household. He would be laying there at night on the bed and just start growling LOL. Sometimes I would ask him what the heck are you growling at and he would lick me and go back to doing what he was doing. As long as he is not barking or growling at you, the wife, or the baby or anyone else in the home I wouldn't be worried about it. I thought home boy was seeing ghosts ... If he's not sick or in pain, and he is not directing these growls at anyone in the home I don't think it's anything serious. We will see what Lisa says...


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

davidfitness83 said:


> I dont think anything has changed, the growling is not fixated at any of the animals or us. Just before he growled at the ground....?? this is freaking me out. I was reading about onset aggression but I thought this happened when the dog is sleeping and goes into some kind of aggressive seizure?


Really if it is at the floor my guess would be something under neath where he is or around that area. Dogs are very sensitive to sound sometimes.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Seriously I believe in ghosts and spirits and I know my dogs see them. We lived in a house that was pretty much haunted with crap happening all the time and the dogs could see them even if we couldn't.

I had a laundry basket chase one of my dogs up the couch..... REALLY! She got all weird and popped off the couch and ran to the basket (she had no collar to get hung up on) then she jumped in the air and bolted on the couch and the basket followed her right up on it. She would not move for about 5 min, neither could we! lol


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

performanceknls said:


> Seriously I believe in ghosts and spirits and I know my dogs see them. We lived in a house that was pretty much haunted with crap happening all the time and the dogs could see them even if we couldn't.
> 
> I had a laundry basket chase one of my dogs up the couch..... REALLY! She got all weird and popped off the couch and ran to the basket (she had no collar to get hung up on) then she jumped in the air and bolted on the couch and the basket followed her right up on it. She would not move for about 5 min, neither could we! lol


I am telling you I knew that dog was seeing and hearing things because he would growl for no reason! LMFAO!! I thought it was funny after I realized it was just his personality crazy mutt! LOL Your right though dogs are sensitive to sounds so I wouldn't worry unless you notice medical problems or the dog is growling at the people in the home that is when it's time to do something.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

I agree with everyone else as well as it could be lack of physical or mental stimulation. I know that having a baby is demanding of time and im sure you are trying to balance everything but i could only imagine (not having kids of my own yet) that the exercise levels have dropped to some degree.

For instance several months ago i came down with strep throat, ear and sinus infection all at once and was in the bed virtually 24/7 for several days. During this period the only time i had anything to do with my dogs was taking them out to use the bathroom or feeding otherwise it was rest. Each day that Ashley was at work during that time they would randomly growl or bark out of frustration as they are high drive high energy dogs. Now i know that Bullies aren't generally like this though it could be a possible reason behind it.

With the information you provided thus far it doesn't really sound like anything health related or something that should be stressed over necessarily. I would just keep an eye on the behavior closely and when you start picking up on the signs hes giving right before he growls or barks thats when the correction should be made. (ideally)

Now if he is directing this at you or redirecting frustration at you than thats when you would need to decide how to approach it. Either some how making the time there for him or rehoming if it came down to it. But right now that doesn't sound like its the case.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

And to Krystal's point about seizures that could be true. Dogs do weird things before having seizures but only time will tell if that is what it is. Vets can only do blood work and maybe and x-ray of his head. Wait to see if you can figure it out, my guess is something in the walls, it could be a pest or a ghost! lol


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Krystal echoed exactly waht I was thinking, this is what Penny did as well and she was never a growler, ever, not at humans or even wierd noises, but right before her seizures started she started doing this. Take him to the vet David, please, it could be nothing but you are never wrong for checking into everything. Hugs


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> I would just keep an eye on the behavior closely and when you start picking up on the signs hes giving right before he growls or barks thats when the correction should be made. (ideally)


I don't know if I would correct him if he is trying to tell David that he hears something. To me that is unfair and David might have to find what he hearing.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

apbtmom76 said:


> Krystal echoed exactly waht I was thinking, this is what Penny did as well and she was never a growler, ever, not at humans or even wierd noises, but right before her seizures started she started doing this. Take him to the vet David, please, it could be nothing but you are never wrong for checking into everything. Hugs


Hmm while it does pay to be safe, nothing about this really strikes me as something calling for that kind of action. (at least from my own experiences) I would hold off and keep an eye on the behavior as mentioned in my other post. I think too many people jump the gun when it comes to taking dogs to vets for un-needed tests. Of course if you have the money and thats what you want to do theres nothing wrong with that.. but just saying.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Lisa you make a good point about the corrections. I know unless theres a reason for my own dogs to do this (that is obvious) i have always corrected and moved on without regretting doing so or finding out later there really was a reason. Of course your point is valid though.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I agree the vet can do nothing to stop or diagnose seizures. All they can do is check for tumors and blood work. There is nothing that is an emergency if he is acting normal in every other way. If everything else fails to bring an answer and you do not believe in ghosts, lol, then go to the vet to make sure it is nothing medical.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

If it was a one time thing then yeah I will say knock it off but Bernie is persistent so I think there is something that needs to be investigated. We have not heard from David I wonder if he is looking under his house! lol


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Lisa I know exactly what you mean about ghosts. I had a huge dobie growing up. She was our guard dog. Big tough protector refused to set one paw in our house. In face no animals would. The cats didn't even want to be inside that house. My Grandma and I would sit in the kitchen every night at the same time and watch the dead bolt on the back door unlock by itself. Freakin creepity!!!!


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Well he has been pretty active we have done over 60 miles of roadwork since june 12th. I just scheduled a visit with the vet for Saturday afternoon. I am assuming that if the check up goes well and there are no actual injuries to his external body parts it could be something internal? 

He is the biggest baby when it comes to pain, if he ever hurts him self he will let me know by whimpering or ducking his head down trying to lick me. He is not doing this at all, he will just stare at some spot and growl, when i told him off the couch he got off immediately, there was no resistance. I won't correct him again and just keep an eye on it. He is not looking at me or my wife or the cats and growling, he is just doing it at random spots, our door was one, which I let him out immediately to investigate but the did nothing he just wanted to take off for a walk. 

I was thinking it could be pests inside the walls but why is he only the one detecting it, not peanut or the cats? usually peanut hears people coming towards our door before he does.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> If it was a one time thing then yeah I will say knock it off but Bernie is persistent so I think there is something that needs to be investigated. We have not heard from David I wonder if he is looking under his house! lol


lmfao @ under the house

I see your point, taking into consideration its consistent it might be worth looking into. But i also think it could be as simple as lack of stimulation mentally/physically.

Since he hasn't responded yet i don't know how much of routine has faded with bernie so i wouldn't say that is what it is, but it is a possible.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LMFAO!! Lisa you are silly! Did Bernie watch the sixth sense recently? LOL David Bernie is trying to talk to you! I could totally see David under the house, on the roof, or listening through the walls for sounds! Bernie is ok don't worry.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Yeah David I had one who would growl at buckets, tires, balls, walls, I mean he would growl for no reason he didn't have any medical issues he was just growling.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

the routine has changed though my wife spends more time with the baby and well I provide the walks to the pets and sometimes she feeds them but most of the time i take care of them. 

I made an appointment for Saturday, it is included in my plan so I do not have to pay at all. What kind of blood work can be done for seizures or behaviors? I know the thyroid is common one but is there anything else that can be checked?


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I bet he is fine. Take him to the vet if it makes you feel better. My dog stares at the window and barks at stuff I can't see all the time. lol


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

davidfitness83 said:


> the routine has changed though my wife spends more time with the baby and well I provide the walks to the pets and sometimes she feeds them but most of the time i take care of them.
> 
> I made an appointment for Saturday, it is included in my plan so I do not have to pay at all. What kind of blood work can be done for seizures or behaviors? I know the thyroid is common one but is there anything else that can be checked?


PK or someone else could probably tell you more about blood work and whats involved than i can since i've never had to deal with something like that nor have would i pretend to know all thats involved with that.

I would say though since you have already made an appointment and cost isnt an issue (especially if its covered) i would do some investigating around the house and maybe try to uncover what he may be hearing. Keep an eye on the behavior and leave at that for now. If your still really active with him its probably not a stimulation concern.

I wouldn't stress too much right now it really doesn't sound like its something to dwell over. I can definitely see why you are for the sake of the family but just continue as normal until then especially if nothing is directed to you or the family.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

They will just do CBC to make sure everything is looking fine which is why I am more a wait and see person. If Bernie is healthy otherwise I say look at the floors. Not all dogs or animals are as sensitive as others Bernie may be more in tune to what is going on. I have had well over 30 dogs over the years and only 2 are sensitive enough to my body to alert to my migraines. That is just an example of some dogs are more in tune to what is going on around them.


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

He might also be more protective now with the baby there. Helena was like that.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I will keep an eye on it, I mean at night specially if he hears a noise around our home he will get up and start patrolling. But this behavior is different, he stays static in one spot sometimes with his head down on the floor like laying down almost or sometimes just standing and he will produce a deep growl, but there is not focus at any of us.

I was reading up on onset aggression but it seems that this happens to dogs in their sleep, sort of like a nightmare that turns into an aggressive outburst. Bernie just turned 2 years old last week so perhaps he is trying out his new and improved growl? lol

Honestly I may make him seem like a driveless teddy bear but I would hate to be the bad guy that sets him off. He is ridiculously strong, he plays weak with us and the kids but I have seen how strong he can be and it is very scary.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

KMdogs said:


> Hmm while it does pay to be safe, nothing about this really strikes me as something calling for that kind of action. (at least from my own experiences) I would hold off and keep an eye on the behavior as mentioned in my other post. I think too many people jump the gun when it comes to taking dogs to vets for un-needed tests. Of course if you have the money and thats what you want to do theres nothing wrong with that.. but just saying.


Well it should strike you as something is wrong, the dog is obviously trying to tell him something, what if it is seizures and David is correcting him, I did this same thing thinking Penny was just acting silly til she woke us up in the middle of the night in a full blown Grand Mal seizure, a month later after several more growling episodes, another GM. And you don't have to have the moeny for something so inexpeinsive, what becoems expensive is the meds and the diet change and the energy it takes out of you the owner. Not to be ugly have you ever expierenced a dog with seizures, for 2 1/2 years, to deal with it day and night, your WHOLE schedule revovles around them. And if I had read the signs sooner I may have prevented some things in Penny (RIP). I don't ever take my dogs to the vet unless it is absolutely necessary, if I can't treat it at home then yeah they go to the vet, I have an awesome old school vet, though. SOrry this rubbed me the wrong way.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Lisa is right about the CBC, have them check liver and kidney functions as well, should be included in the CBC, as well as thyroid and heart functions. Keep us posted, and I am lol'ing at the ghosts, is very possible this could be the cause, lol


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

apbtmom76 said:


> Well it should strike you as something is wrong, the dog is obviously trying to tell him something, what if it is seizures and David is correcting him, I did this same thing thinking Penny was just acting silly til she woke us up in the middle of the night in a full blown Grand Mal seizure, a month later after several more growling episodes, another GM. And you don't have to have the moeny for something so inexpeinsive, what becoems expensive is the meds and the diet change and the energy it takes out of you the owner. Not to be ugly have you ever expierenced a dog with seizures, for 2 1/2 years, to deal with it day and night, your WHOLE schedule revovles around them. And if I had read the signs sooner I may have prevented some things in Penny (RIP). I don't ever take my dogs to the vet unless it is absolutely necessary, if I can't treat it at home then yeah they go to the vet, I have an awesome old school vet, though. SOrry this rubbed me the wrong way.


well i do agree with what lisa said after my post..



performanceknls said:


> *I agree the vet can do nothing to stop or diagnose seizures. All they can do is check for tumors and blood work. There is nothing that is an emergency if he is acting normal in every other way.* If everything else fails to bring an answer and you do not believe in ghosts, lol, then go to the vet to make sure it is nothing medical.


Sorry if i rubbed you the wrong way but i still stand by that. But to answer your question no i haven't.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Actually a vet can diagnose seizures, they can say whether they are trigger or inherited or idopathic, I beleive that's the word. But yes they can check for tumors and blood work and I guess the 3 vets I talked to when I took Penny in were wrong when they told me they could check for seizures, hmmm. And then how can you tell him not to worry if his dog is giving classic seizure symptom signs. I know you know a lot about dogs but epilepsy is something I am still fresh out of, I learned a LOT in 2 1/2 years, did lots of research and I still could not save my girl, hours and hours of trips to the vet for meds or blood work every three months just to make sure the meds weren't killin her or shutting her liver and kidneys down. ANd you can stand by what you believe in and I will stnad by mine, if you have NO expiernce with seizures then pelase do not say anything. Thanks and yeah it did rub me the wrong way again, this is raw emotion form my stand point as I dealt with it for as long as I did, may not seem like a long time to some but it was to me and Iwould do it all over again if given the chance.

But not he vets cannot stop the seizures, but meds can help, and Lisa I have to disagree with the bold statement, well the end of it anyway, sorry this is exaclty what Penny did, why wait and see if soemthing happens and not be prepared for it. IDk maybe I am just difffernt and should have culled Penny before she got as bad as she did. Ok I have to step away from this, this is upsetting me.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

thanks for the help guys i appreciate the input from all of you. I have that appointment set, I pray its a ghost and not a seizure Bernie has been a true blessing to my family and I would die inside if he is sick. I can't deal with loosing another dog, Bernie is the best dog that we could ask for and it just scares the crap out of me of what it can be. Thankfully the insurance I have for my dogs i can bring them any time free of charge. The testing will be expensive as heck but hopefully it's a critter or a ghost


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

apbtmom76 said:


> Actually a vet can diagnose seizures, they can say whether they are trigger or inherited or idopathic, I beleive that's the word. But yes they can check for tumors and blood work and I guess the 3 vets I talked to when I took Penny in were wrong when they told me they could check for seizures, hmmm. And then how can you tell him not to worry if his dog is giving classic seizure symptom signs. I know you know a lot about dogs but epilepsy is something I am still fresh out of, I learned a LOT in 2 1/2 years, did lots of research and I still could not save my girl, hours and hours of trips to the vet for meds or blood work every three months just to make sure the meds weren't killin her or shutting her liver and kidneys down. ANd you can stand by what you believe in and I will stnad by mine, if you have NO expiernce with seizures then pelase do not say anything. Thanks and yeah it did rub me the wrong way again, this is raw emotion form my stand point as I dealt with it for as long as I did, may not seem like a long time to some but it was to me and Iwould do it all over again if given the chance.
> 
> But not he vets cannot stop the seizures, but meds can help, and Lisa I have to disagree with the bold statement, well the end of it anyway, sorry this is exaclty what Penny did, why wait and see if soemthing happens and not be prepared for it. IDk maybe I am just difffernt and should have culled Penny before she got as bad as she did. Ok I have to step away from this, this is upsetting me.


these methods that you speak of to detect seizures? how are they performed? is it a simple blood screen?

Bernie had a full blood panel done last fall and all his organs checked out alright. I have not made any changes to his diet besides the added raw medallions and the fish oil, vitamin c and glucosamine/MSM.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Dogs can see spirits and spirits can attach themselves to a person or an item that you bring into your home. And I am being dead serious when I say this......if you recently had your son at a hospital then that is where you can easily pick them up. Sounds crazy right? I believe in it but I don't but to many funky things have happened to people I know over the past five years. Ever watch the HauNted on animal planet? Great show, you should check it out  anyways, I will keep Bernie in my prayers and hope that it is nothing medical. Keep us posted


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> Seriously I believe in ghosts and spirits and I know my dogs see them. We lived in a house that was pretty much haunted with crap happening all the time and the dogs could see them even if we couldn't.l


I agree with this, they see and hear some things and since you have a new baby, maybe its your baby's guardian angel saying hi


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Pm sent with info


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Well I pray it's a ghost or a spirit... I do find it odd that while I was on the couch I felt my left leg feel chilly like my hairs wanted to raise up like static lol I am not joking but I find that kind of weird.. :/


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> Well I pray it's a ghost or a spirit... I do find it odd that while I was on the couch I felt my left leg feel chilly like my hairs wanted to raise up like static lol I am not joking but I find that kind of weird.. :/


seeeeeee I bet it is!  Don't worry too much. From what you described its not related to you or your family, he has super ears! lol I hope its not serious and I hope it works out!


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

ames said:


> seeeeeee I bet it is!  Don't worry too much. From what you described its not related to you or your family, he has super ears! lol I hope its not serious and I hope it works out!


He is a big boy so it does worry me because of his size.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm gunna have to back Tye on this one as I too have dealt with the heart break of owning an epileptic dog. The vets will be able to tell you what's going on, they have gone a long way. Here in CA we actually have a place just for k-9 epilepsy, Mack Truck has an in loving memory plack on the wall there. I will definitely say a prayer for you guys tonight, I hope he just hears mice or something like that.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

If he has great hearing.. he could be growling at sounds and sights you can see or hear. Humans are getting dumber "sense" wise. You can elaborate on what they are, as long as his aggression isnt directed towards you and yours; he's all good, just feels like he needs to guard the vulnerable. Only time Hooch was ever HA was when the Mrs was alone home with the lil tots... No one usually come over unless they were family when I was gone, because you didnt want her to open the door, Hooch wasnt having it. As the baby's grow he became a lot more relaxed... give it time and monitor taking mental notes. The only wway his aggression will hurt the lil one of course if hes not directing at ya'll is by running her over in the process of "get some"... 

Simple easy boy its okay.. dont punish him for guarding your family.. or what the point.. ?? if they act that way its a reason for it most usually. they dont want that mouse, cricket, bird, man walking outside, "spirits",... near that mamma and her baby.. ya'll are his pack and hes noticing something your not.. or his cheese is slippin of his cracker.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

apbtmom76 said:


> Actually a vet can diagnose seizures, they can say whether they are trigger or inherited or idopathic, I beleive that's the word. But yes they can check for tumors and blood work and I guess the 3 vets I talked to when I took Penny in were wrong when they told me they could check for seizures, hmmm. And then how can you tell him not to worry if his dog is giving classic seizure symptom signs. I know you know a lot about dogs but epilepsy is something I am still fresh out of, I learned a LOT in 2 1/2 years, did lots of research and I still could not save my girl, hours and hours of trips to the vet for meds or blood work every three months just to make sure the meds weren't killin her or shutting her liver and kidneys down. ANd you can stand by what you believe in and I will stnad by mine, if you have NO expiernce with seizures then pelase do not say anything. Thanks and yeah it did rub me the wrong way again, this is raw emotion form my stand point as I dealt with it for as long as I did, may not seem like a long time to some but it was to me and Iwould do it all over again if given the chance.
> 
> But not he vets cannot stop the seizures, but meds can help, and Lisa I have to disagree with the bold statement, well the end of it anyway, sorry this is exaclty what Penny did, why wait and see if soemthing happens and not be prepared for it. IDk maybe I am just difffernt and should have culled Penny before she got as bad as she did. Ok I have to step away from this, this is upsetting me.


In the end this shouldn't upset you, we all have given advice based on personal experiences and what we have learned over the years through our own dogs as well as others. If we disagree on each others advice that is all it is, i don't believe anything should be taken offense on this thread.

Bottom line is David is taking Bernie to the vet and that can rule out just about any type of health issue that may be associated with this type of behavior. While i believe its probably nothing serious and something either i mentioned or the others have (not health related) he will find out soon enough.

In the meantime David i think you have your answer(s) until the vet if it is anything that needs to be addressed no amount of worrying or dwelling will fix it now, especially since you don't know what it is. I know it can give you a scare but really i honestly wouldn't worry about it. Everything will be fine.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

kg420 said:


> I'm gunna have to back Tye on this one as I too have dealt with the heart break of owning an epileptic dog. The vets will be able to tell you what's going on, they have gone a long way. Here in CA we actually have a place just for k-9 epilepsy, Mack Truck has an in loving memory plack on the wall there. I will definitely say a prayer for you guys tonight, I hope he just hears mice or something like that.


thank you for the info and the good vibes  I hope it's mice that only he can hear.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> If he has great hearing.. he could be growling at sounds and sights you can see or hear. Humans are getting dumber "sense" wise. You can elaborate on what they are, as long as his aggression isnt directed towards you and yours; he's all good, just feels like he needs to guard the vulnerable. Only time Hooch was ever HA was when the Mrs was alone home with the lil tots... No one usually come over unless they were family when I was gone, because you didnt want her to open the door, Hooch wasnt having it. As the baby's grow he became a lot more relaxed... give it time and monitor taking mental notes. The only wway his aggression will hurt the lil one of course if hes not directing at ya'll is by running her over in the process of "get some"...
> 
> Simple easy boy its okay.. dont punish him for guarding your family.. or what the point.. ?? if they act that way its a reason for it most usually. they dont want that mouse, cricket, bird, man walking outside, "spirits",... near that mamma and her baby.. ya'll are his pack and hes noticing something your not.. or his cheese is slippin of his cracker.


:goodpost:
Dosia is kinda like that. He gets all in defense mode when I'm here by myself. Tweeker peekin out the window and very sensitive to the littlest sounds. He may just be feeling the need to protect the baby.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Tye what tests are you talking about that can detect seizures other than checking things like a CBC? I am very interested in knowing if I am missing something here. I am always open to learn I know you dealt with it a lot longer than I did. I have had 3 dogs that have epilepsy and I have been to several vets and hey all pretty much said the same things. If there is an obvious imbalance then a CBC may pick it up but if the they do a CBC and it is normal along with thyroid and x-rays then what way do they have to diagnose if he is going to have a seizure if he has never had one before? What I am saying is even with a dog who does seize if they do bloodwork right after it may show nothing in the way of figuring out what causes them. I know there are different types but I am talking about Bernie who has no signs other than growling what test could they do?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> Tye what tests are you talking about that can detect seizures other than checking things like a CBC? I am very interested in knowing if I am missing something here. I am always open to learn I know you dealt with it a lot longer than I did. I have had 3 dogs that have epilepsy and I have been to several vets and hey all pretty much said the same things. If there is an obvious imbalance then a CBC may pick it up but if the they do a CBC and it is normal along with thyroid and x-rays then what way do they have to diagnose if he is going to have a seizure if he has never had one before? What I am saying is even with a dog who does seize if they do bloodwork right after it may show nothing in the way of figuring out what causes them. I know there are different types but I am talking about Bernie who has no signs other than growling what test could they do?


:goodpost: I would also like to know for the sake of knowledge because now i am truly curious. After you posted i have tried to dig information up on testing for seizures and other than what Lisa has said i cant find anything different.

I'd truly like to know!


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

LOl I was gonna say you have a ghost as well lol. Crush does the same thing I find it really weird usually at night when im lying in bed with him watching tv he will just sit up and stare down the hall or in the corner and get this really deep aggressive growl and it freaked me out the 1st couple times cause I have had a guy in my bedroom window before so im really jumpy thinking somone is outside or in my home but every time i check it there is nothing and noone. Now I just tell him to hush it and he does ,I agree with the majority if it isnt directed at anyone in your family I wouldnt worry to much , like Lisa said let him outside and see if he alerts you to something out there or under the house ...


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

There was a time a few months back where I would go to bed late at night and Kane would stare at the corner of my room towards the attic and growl--this from a dog who growled once at another rude dog before that, but has otherwise never growled or displayed any aggressive behavior towards anything/one. He did this for several nights and sometimes during the day, and it wasn't always in that same spot, but sometimes towards another part of my room.

Finally, I couldn't stand it anymore and opened up the crawlspace into my "attic" (which is really just barely big enough for me to get in) and turns out there were a ton of bats nesting there, stretching into all of the tiny spaces around my bedroom!! I skedaddled out of there after getting the willies, called someone out to remove them, and Kane hasn't growled since.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

LOL Omg I would have fallen down the ladder tryna get outta there LMAO , that would creep me out , but yes good exaple could be mice, or bats . or if its under the house something bigger lol , we had a family of skunks living under the house before we moved in lol , thankfully they are no longer there I think the dogs in the back yard ruined there lil homey feeling they had before lol.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Thank you gp family  

We will see what the vet says than again that same vet checked bernies hips and told me they were great and then a weekend later the xrays at the of a clinic said otherwise lol

I don't have too much faith on that vet but I can tell him what we think it could be and hopefully I can do a payment plan on e blood panel and blood screens.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

If all else fails we will bring the candles and Quiji board over to rid the ghosts from your home to give Bernie a sense of peace and serenity again LOL. Let us know how the vet visit goes!


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sadie said:


> If all else fails we will bring the candles and Quiji board over to rid the ghosts from your home to give Bernie a sense of peace and serenity again LOL. Let us know how the vet visit goes!


Ill bring the alcohol because if im going to be a part of that than i need to have something in my system to make it entertaining. lol


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

I will never touch an ouiji board


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Mach0 said:


> I will never touch an ouiji board


:goodpost:
Me either, screw that!


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

lol idk about a ouiji but salt and holy water... i always heard that ouiji's were bad juju because it invites spirits in.

but in all honesty theres nothing wrong with being to safe when it comes to possible seizures. really hoping its not something physically wrong with bernie man or that "his cheese is slippin of his cracker"(i love that qoute btw). if you know any one that hunts and has a trail cam see if you can borrow it and set it up under your house for a couple days or in your attic better to have eyes under your house 24 than just you under the house for 15 minutes.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

I agree with Lisa, it can be anything in the walls, under the floor or ghosts. It can even be a new person in the area that he is sensing isn't right. Dogs are good with vibes, sensing things untoward, if he checks good at the vet ( which I think is going to be a waste ) then listen to him and the direction his is growling at.
I didn't listen to my old boys growlings one night thank goodness he took it further with a nip to my knee other wise my kids and self could have been in a world of trouble.
Sound dogs with great bonds to their family become extra senstive to negative energies in their surroundings or other, he may just be on his guard cause he has your baby to protect yanno.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Sadie said:


> If all else fails we will bring the candles and Quiji board over to rid the ghosts from your home to give Bernie a sense of peace and serenity again LOL. Let us know how the vet visit goes!


Nah, we will burn sage and douse the house in holy water :roll: We may even have to do an excorcism on Bernie just to be safe


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

All this seizure talk and my poor baby General just had a seizure! CRAP I hate when he has them it has been a few months and they just suck. Every time I have rushed them off the vet after a seizure they do not thing and the blood work shows nothing. David I really hope it is not seizures I do not want any one to have to go through this!!


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

I always try to catch Champ seizing on my cell phone to show the doc. try to video his episode, the doc may see something your missing.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Mach0 said:


> I will never touch an ouiji board


Me either it was a joke LMFAO!!!!


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I had my wife walk Bernie around the block to see if it was that maybe. So far no growling he is laying next to daddy


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

haha cute bernie! I love the kitty hiding out by the table, lol.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Update 

My wife was cleaning the cat dish, Bernie was drinking water and growled and walked out the kitchen. My wife's back was facing him so she didn't see what direction he growled at. Shortly after she was in the living room with the baby the dog is laying down on the floor and produced a short deep growled at stopped. She told me that he was just laying on the floor without any motion just produced the growl. The growl will last one or two seconds and he stop them at will. So far this morning we've had two growls.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

KM - it did upset me, sorry, but it did, since you have no expiernce with an epileptic dog I will leave this and your comments alone.

Lisa - All three vets I talked to told me that x-rays and blood work are just the satrt, a CAT scan and an MRI are also needed, to evaluate the brain and spine, cause anything on either can cause them. The CBC is a good start but is not the only thing that can be done, And I am sorry to hear the General had a seizure, is why I hate talking about it, it always seemed to set Penny off as well. I went thru a CAT scan and the blood tests, actually after her first seizure I immediately took her to my vet and he did bloodwork and it showed nothing, a month later thta was a different story, darn I would have to look at her paperwork to tell you exactly what the thing was that was off.

Here is a great site that ANYone can go to and learn about this disease, affliction whatever ya wanna call it. Canine Epilepsy Resource Center & Home of the Epil-K9 List

David, I am truely worried about Bernie, I just don't think this is normal behavior and I am by NOOOO means a dog expert, just giving my own opinion. Hugs my friend, keep us posted.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

David keep track of every time it happens and write it down or video it if you can. Make sure to note what he was doing at the time. That way when you go to the vet they have a log of these growling incidents. I am wondering if Bernie is reacting to the new changes in the home a new baby is a big change and I am wondering if that is affecting him in anyway. Just make sure you watch him very closely and hopefully the vet can clear him of any medical cause that would be contributing to this behavior. Dogs also growl as a warning or out of fear you said that he is not directing this towards anyone in the home right? And no particular object?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

davidfitness83 said:


> Update
> 
> My wife was cleaning the cat dish, Bernie was drinking water and growled and walked out the kitchen. My wife's back was facing him so she didn't see what direction he growled at. Shortly after she was in the living room with the baby the dog is laying down on the floor and produced a short deep growled at stopped. She told me that he was just laying on the floor without any motion just produced the growl. The growl will last one or two seconds and he stop them at will. So far this morning we've had two growls.


My old dog Kaos was a growly butt and it did not start till later on. Any luck with finding anything in the house?


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but does Bernie only act like that when he's inside the house, not outside or in other environments like on a walk or in a store or whatever?


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

David any news yet??


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

At this point we are trying to rule out a back injury, the vet was putting pressure on his spine to see if there was any area that would cause pain. She said that he growled when she put pressure on a certain part of his spine, however, I did not hear it and she could not get him to react again. She told me to give him buffered aspirin for the next two days to see if he has that episode again. She thinks that it might be epilepsy but wants to try out the aspirin issue first to see if it happens while he Is on it. He tested negative for limes disease or heart worm, I have attached an image of the blood screens that were ordered for him.










We want to rule out injury first by utilizing the pain medicine and the bloodscreen to make she that his organs and blood count is normal. If this doesn't find the issue , I will have to look. Into a MRI  I will take an injured back or weak back but I pray my boy doesn't have epilepsy. I guess I am a bad owner because a MRI is going to cost a ton, I will do it regardless but I can finance it or something. At the end of the day my dog health is my priority, I just hope whatever we find is not ruinning his quality of life.

Bernie had a quick growl episode very shortly before my wife took this picture, his body language and positioning was exactly the same as to when he growled. So far today he has only done it twice.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Hm well keep us posted, has he seemed to have any back issues before or any type of soreness? Is the vet thinking sore back muscles or actual spine weakness? 

If you don't mind me asking how was Bernie bred? Did you get him from a well established breeder or did you get him through BYB? Just wondering if it could also potentially be some genetic issues going on that is starting to rise.

It seems odd that out of the blue he would start showing this unless its something with his structure or a result of being over worked and just sore.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

hummm So she thinks epilepsy because????? Has he had an episode other than growling? IDK if would be quick to spend money on a MRI without any other signs of epilepsy. maybe a second opinion might be in order if they cannot figure it out. Now if it is a brain tumor a regular x-ray would pick that up.

Have you ruled out anything in your house for sure? Has he done it anywhere else other than when he is at the house? His pain in his back may not be connected to his growling but it might.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> hummm So she thinks epilepsy because????? Has he had an episode other than growling? IDK if would be quick to spend money on a MRI without any other signs of epilepsy. maybe a second opinion might be in order if they cannot figure it out. Now if it is a brain tumor a regular x-ray would pick that up.
> 
> Have you ruled out anything in your house for sure? Has he done it anywhere else other than when he is at the house? His pain in his back may not be connected to his growling but it might.


It does seem to be quick to the gun on that, this is why i don't really go to vets unless i've ruled out everything on my own first without the use of machines. Im not sure how your vet is david but i know many vets will say its something even though its not just because they feel obligated since your spending good money on all the testing.

I'm fortunate that the vet i have, he is a straight forward kind of guy and imo thats rare to find. Even so, i still don't go to the vet unless its needed.

Didn't think about it until Lisa said something, is there a certain reason why the vet is leaning towards this if its not the back issue? Just wondering if there is any evidence im interested to know about how they come to that conclusion.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

im on my laptop now so I can answer and type a lot better. hold please lol


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Poor B. (hugs you both) I'm very sorry you guys are going through this. It's the not knowing that causes so much stress. I'll keep you both in my prayers. If he was doing it when she pressed on him then it may be pain related. He could be having muscle spazums. Some times they only last a few seconds, or for minutes and that is why he's growling in short bursts.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> Hm well keep us posted, has he seemed to have any back issues before or any type of soreness? Is the vet thinking sore back muscles or actual spine weakness?
> 
> If you don't mind me asking how was Bernie bred? Did you get him from a well established breeder or did you get him through BYB? Just wondering if it could also potentially be some genetic issues going on that is starting to rise.
> 
> It seems odd that out of the blue he would start showing this unless its something with his structure or a result of being over worked and just sore.


1) he never seemed to have any issues with his back at all, I mean he hurt his right paw couple of times but he walked it off and it got better.

2) I saw the ped and wanted a Bully I didn't know better at the time and the guy I got him from was a big puppy miller. Bernie was in pretty bad shape when I got him and I think that made the purchase easier. I def wouldn't doubt something genetic could potentially affect him since he came from dogs being bred for looks and money..

3) I really dont do much with him I let him pull me on walks for a few miles at the time. We used to weight pull and do spring workouts but with the baby that kind of stopped. I give him at least a 2 mile walk daily but I don't see how anything of that could have hurt his back, unless pulling on walks can be causing that?


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> hummm So she thinks epilepsy because????? Has he had an episode other than growling? IDK if would be quick to spend money on a MRI without any other signs of epilepsy. maybe a second opinion might be in order if they cannot figure it out. Now if it is a brain tumor a regular x-ray would pick that up.
> 
> Have you ruled out anything in your house for sure? Has he done it anywhere else other than when he is at the house? His pain in his back may not be connected to his growling but it might.


she described it as a possibility because of something to do with his focal point, basically saying that when he has done this growling or barking sound he is staring into space, sort of like being disoriented for a few seconds and experience a seizure. I was reading on silent seizures and some of that stuff kind of make sense. She def did not want go the MRI route as of yet, but we are discussing the investigation steps to see what is wrong with him.

first rule out any physical injuries, I really don't think he growled at her but she said she saw him growl. I was holding his and his face was turned away from. She wants to try resting the dog and putting him into anti flamatory medicine for a couple of days if this doesn't do it to see if it is related to injury.

If nothing physically hurts him, we will wait for the blood screening to see if there is any issue with his organ function or blood. if this doesn't workout I think I have to start looking at other options, I am not sure which route to take. I honestly wouldn't want to start any medication for epilepsy because I still have doubts on what is going on with him. His growls are 1-2 seconds, no teeth or direction towards anyone. He only does it in my home, he has never done it anywhere else. It is funny because the vet actually mentioned ghosts lol

once again thank you all for the support and the time you are taking to help me out. I know I can be a smart ass sometimes but it is heart warming to see strangers help someone in need out like this. :thumbsup:


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

davidfitness83 said:


> 1) he never seemed to have any issues with his back at all, I mean he hurt his right paw couple of times but he walked it off and it got better.
> 
> 2) I saw the ped and wanted a Bully I didn't know better at the time and the guy I got him from was a big puppy miller. Bernie was in pretty bad shape when I got him and I think that made the purchase easier. I def wouldn't doubt something genetic could potentially affect him since he came from dogs being bred for looks and money..
> 
> 3) I really dont do much with him I let him pull me on walks for a few miles at the time. We used to weight pull and do spring workouts but with the baby that kind of stopped. I give him at least a 2 mile walk daily but I don't see how anything of that could have hurt his back, unless pulling on walks can be causing that?


Well pulling could pull a muscle or put heavy strain on his back even if he isn't pulling anything heavy and only pulling while walking if he already has a weak structure. If you've been doing it long i think that could be a potential reason if it does turn out to be his back. If you've haven't, it still could be but it would make me less concerned with it.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> It does seem to be quick to the gun on that, this is why i don't really go to vets unless i've ruled out everything on my own first without the use of machines. Im not sure how your vet is david but i know many vets will say its something even though its not just because they feel obligated since your spending good money on all the testing.
> 
> I'm fortunate that the vet i have, he is a straight forward kind of guy and imo thats rare to find. Even so, i still don't go to the vet unless its needed.
> 
> Didn't think about it until Lisa said something, is there a certain reason why the vet is leaning towards this if its not the back issue? Just wondering if there is any evidence im interested to know about how they come to that conclusion.


The vet started going from the beginning to the end of the spine putting pressure to see if the dog would react to the pressure. She said he growled when she got near his tail, again it sucks because I did not see this and she tried to put pressure on the same spot again to produce a reaction but he wouldn't do it again. So basically my question is if let's say that part of his back is messed up, wouldn't the repeated pressure cause the pain?


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

kg420 said:


> Poor B. (hugs you both) I'm very sorry you guys are going through this. It's the not knowing that causes so much stress. I'll keep you both in my prayers. If he was doing it when she pressed on him then it may be pain related. He could be having muscle spazums. Some times they only last a few seconds, or for minutes and that is why he's growling in short bursts.


Thank you Krystal  I hope it's anything but epilepsy. He is my best friend and I can't picture my life without him.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

davidfitness83 said:


> The vet started going from the beginning to the end of the spine putting pressure to see if the dog would react to the pressure. She said he growled when she got near his tail, again it sucks because I did not see this and she tried to put pressure on the same spot again to produce a reaction but he wouldn't do it again. So basically my question is if let's say that part of his back is messed up, wouldn't the repeated pressure cause the pain?


It should have, weak structure, soreness from a pulled muscle or any type of injury if you put pressure on it, it hurts. If he did growl i think more or less it could have just been the area, caught off guard or something similar to that. Some dogs are will growl if you touch in the rear area, especially during an exam.

IMO based on what your saying, that doesn't sound alarming. If the reaction was consistent in one area then it would be something to be worried about.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Also if hes only doing it at the house that to me, that makes it more reasonable to believe that hes hearing something your not or something environmental. If he was injured and i think i remember you saying something about him being a baby when he gets any type of pain? it would be something consistent not just in one specific place.

The epilepsy, it could be but personally i really dont see anything that points to that but im also not experienced in owning a dog with or been around one with it so i don't know if im missing something someone else would see. 

To me it sounds like its either:
Environmental - Stress, hearing things, seeing things, ghost or something with genetics going on.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> Also if hes only doing it at the house that to me, that makes it more reasonable to believe that hes hearing something your not or something environmental. If he was injured and i think i remember you saying something about him being a baby when he gets any type of pain? it would be something consistent not just in one specific place.
> 
> The epilepsy, it could be but personally i really dont see anything that points to that but im also not experienced in owning a dog with or been around one with it so i don't know if im missing something someone else would see.
> 
> ...


I hope your right man, your analysis makes sense I have to take him out to my family's home this week to see if he will do this.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

davidfitness83 said:


> I hope your right man, your analysis makes sense I have to take him out to my family's home this week to see if he will do this.


If he doesnt i think you would pretty much have a confirmed answer. As frequently as hes been doing it lately if he just stopped when at someone elses home..

I wouldn't leave the worst possibilities behind yet as right now there are several options as to what it is but the more that unfolds i think there is a better chance of it being something less dreadful for both you and Bernie.

Over the weekend if all goes well while at your families house i think that would put the situation one big leap in a less sever, more positive situation as to why hes doing it. So hopefully it goes well!


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> The epilepsy, it could be but personally i really dont see anything that points to that but im also not experienced in owning a dog with or been around one with it so i don't know if im missing something someone else would see.


Tye and I have both pointed it out. As some one who's has seen this first hand, yes I do see signs. I wouldn't be so quick to say this as I really like David and wouldn't want to cause him stress or worry in any way, but this is the type of behavior I saw in my own dog before seizures started.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

but if it was epilespy wouldnt it happen even when away from home? the wifes moms dog has seizures and even when was not at home he'd go into seizures. i know it sounds weird but go camping or something and take bernie with you just for a night or take him to visit you family and stay the night if he does his little growling thing you know its not home related. like km said the growl at the vet if you want to call it a growl could have been because he got startled.


EDIT: ok maybe not camping because theres alot of variable little critters running around


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

kg420 said:


> Tye and I have both pointed it out. As some one who's has seen this first hand, yes I do see signs. I wouldn't be so quick to say this as I really like David and wouldn't want to cause him stress or worry in any way, but this is the type of behavior I saw in my own dog before seizures started.


While i understand and i do respect that, i've owned and have seen many dogs that growl and do this type of things for minor reasons (hearing things) or for real no apparent reason at all. None of which developed epilepsy or anything major as a result.

I truly can appreciate what you two have been offering here as David can get a feel for all the aspects from different angles and im not trying to say you two or wrong, shouldn't feel the way you do so on so forth as in the end none of us 100% know whats going on right now. We are all offering based on experience and our knowledge on the topic at hand.

Now with that said if i had experienced a dog with epilepsy and this was the first signs i had personally dealt with i probably would be more weary of this and offer the same things i have experienced based on the fact i would fear he may be dealing with the same situations and medical problems i had dealt with. IMO what has happened thus far and based on all the information i personally do not believe it is epilepsy though if it was me in his situation i wouldn't rule it out yet, i just believe its the least likely of the possibilities.

You may be right, i may be right or we are all wrong and its something no one has even thought of yet. Im not putting down your theories based on your experiences so i don't see a reason anyone should down what im offering just because i dont have experience in epilepsy and dogs.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

This is the look he does, there is nothing there. This time he did not growl but this is one of the ways he looks up the ceiling when he has growled. Kristal, Tye did the seizures start like this ?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

looks like a normal dog looking around to me. I didn't hear any growling but i guess you were just showing how he stares?

EDIT: Mine also stare like that when they see a fly or moth that came in flying around sometimes, is it possible thats what hes looking at by chance? I doubt it since you've been worried about it but just wondering if maybe something like that slipped your mind?


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

No flies, no moths nothing in the room at all man. This is the same exact thing he does just that this time he didnt but it is the same exact focus and nothing is there at all...

You know what's scary ? I just tried to video him because he was doing the growl thing next to me towards the door so I turned on the flash and he went nuts because the flash reflected his shadow on that wall.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Its very very hard to tell the look on his face from the video. When Mack had episodes he would look up like that and all around with a confused look on his face. He would lick his face over and over and then his head would bob from side to side.
If you notice that he looks confused and starts pacing around nervously watch him carefully. If he does go into a seizure first thing, is try your hardest to stay calm. Make sure he has a blanket or pillow you can put underneath him cause he can get injured if he starts to flial wildly. The reason we had to put Mack down was brain damage due to a violent seizure on the cement. Poor baby slammed down so hard on his head.
Again I am not 100% sure is this is what is going on with Bernie, and I really hope it isn't. Again I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

davidfitness83 said:


> This is the look he does, there is nothing there. This time he did not growl but this is one of the ways he looks up the ceiling when he has growled. Kristal, Tye did the seizures start like this ?
> 
> YouTube - ‪Is my dog seeing ghosts ?‬‏


I don't know man, maybe I have seen one to many of those haunted/ghost shows on Animal Planet but whenever a dog starts looking around like that on one of those shows they are seeing something.That is the exact way they act. Does Peanut act any different have you noticed? From what I have seen on those shows when you have multiple dogs they both usually sense a presence. I know all your focus has been on Bernie but try paying a little closer attention to your chi and see is he is acting any different. I would rule out any paranormal activity or minor injury before I pay thousands for an MRI. I am glad others are talking ghosts otherwise I would feel down right silly even mentioning that :hammer: Anyways David, I hope it is nothing all that serious with him. I know you must be stressed with the unknowing but try to stay positive  Hugs to you both from Bella and I :roll:


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

dave you really should take him to some one elses house and stay the night there with him i know you got a wife and kid but if you take him some where for a night and he stops growling and staring then you know its not him its something around him since this sounds like its an every day thing.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Peanut is buried under the blanket so he is not really interested in anything. 

Krystal he never acts disoriented he just keeps staring at the ceiling like he is following movement and then he'll growl for a second or two it varies, never showing teeth just a deep low pitch growl. However, he has also produced a growl from just laying down.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

See if he was doing the bob head, pacing nervously paired with the growling and other unusual behavior i would probably be more concerned with it being something more serious.. Again this is only my perspective. 

To me just the growling and staring.. Many dogs do this for many reasons (or none) with zero health problems. While it may be freaky i dont really think just these two alone should sound major alarms. Then again, i can understand those that have dealt with seizures would be.

I think the best thing to do now is if your doing the medication follow it to a T and when you leave this weekend monitor him closely. If he does not act this way at all at the family house than i think that is a positive step and reinforces my theories. Perhaps not a 100% but i think it would be a great sign. Also with the exercising i think it would be wise to lift the pulling for a while at least, incase there is a structure issues you don't want to add any additional stress if something is bothering him thats related.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> dave you really should take him to some one elses house and stay the night there with him i know you got a wife and kid but if you take him some where for a night and he stops growling and staring then you know its not him its something around him since this sounds like its an every day thing.


That sounds like a great idea thank you for that tip. I have to figure out a way to have him for a few hours, spending the night out would be ideal I have to see what I can do.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Ok that's good. If he looks like he's following movement I'd totally go check the attick for creepy crawlys. There's gotta be something up there.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

DUDE!!!! He is seeing ghosts!! I swear that is what my dogs have done in the past, or you having something in the walls... seriously check the walls!! or call the ghost busters! LMAO

I hope it is not seizures I have gone through that but even if he is having small seizures like that they may not put him on meds. General has them every few weeks but is not on any meds unless he is having one a week. He has partial seizures not grand mals.


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## cEElint (Oct 6, 2009)

whenever my dogs growl at anything while laying down or anything i ask them "what is it?" and they will usually run to where they heard it.. i let them out back too just in case someone is in the backyard


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Did you have a lot of loud fireworks on the fourth? I did see his ears perk up at one point in the video like he was trying to hear something. Is it possible he was exposed to loud fireworks that may have damaged his hearing? Did the vet check his hearing at all? If he isn't hearing properly that could also be prompting the growls: seeing something out of the corner of his eye that he can't hear. That may also explain why he freaked out at his shadow...


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## APBT4LYFE (Jun 19, 2011)

Animals are very sensitive to their surroundings even ghosts, some are more sensitive then others. After seeing that video it looked like he was seeing ghosts to me. Then again I might just be watching that haunted show on animal planet to much...I wish you and your family the best.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

David, I really do hope it's not seizures, i will keep you two in my thoughts, the video you posted looks like focal point seizures to me. And I ONLY say this cause Penny would do that exact same thing and then have a grand mal. I am NOT trying to upset you or make you worry, Bernie can live a full ife even with epilpesy. Even after Penny was put on meds, she would do the head bob, my vet told me to give her Karo syrup as it prolly meant her blood sugar was low, since she was on a grain free diet, I gave her local honey instead. It always made the head bob go away. I have a video of the head bob and of the seizures, if you would like for me to post them I will.
And Krystal is right, if he does have a full blown seizure, try hard to remain calm, do NOT hold him or try to restrain him, he could hurt you or vice versa, if you want you can put a hand towel in his mouth to keep him from biting his tongue, just make sure it's not to far back, so he does not suffocate, Penny bit thru her tongue about three times before I figured this out.
Keep his exercise to a minimum til you get this figured out and yes have someone come check the attic and walls for ghosts or pests. Hugs to you both


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Has Peanut acted any differently towards Bernie??


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Thank you guys for the continuous support I have to be brief and sloppy I'm on my iPhone at the doctors.

If a dog is experiencing a seizure shouldn't the dog be unresponsive ? Meaning these are malfunctions in the brain that cause these episodes in dogs, wouldn't these cause the dog to loose current consciousness? 


I clearly remember telling him OFF the couch when he growled once and he complied immediately. During a seizure the dog is gone mentally no ?


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

No not necessarily David, Penny was always completely aware of us when she was going thru this, you could see it on her face, especially wiht the head bob, she would follow my movement and everything, during a grand mal, no they do not loose conciousness just a short out in the brain is all. Bernie can be responsive unless it is a grand or petite mal seizure, the petie mals are not nearly as bead and the grand mals, a grand mal is the most severe and the cluster grand mals are the worst. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you guys, sending tons and tons of positive and healing vibes to Bernie.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Tye were you able to give her commands ? Not saying if you were doing obedience with her during an episode but what I mean is that Bernie will stop the growl immediately if I correct him and he will follow commands i sent him to his bed and he went immediately. On that staring video I let it go because I wantedto show you when he is searching for something that is not there but i can stop it if I want to and get him to do anything I want. Not trying to argue against you if anything I am digging in for more info.


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## Eric (Oct 21, 2010)

David, there's only one real answer..

Ghosts. Srsly.

Lol jk 

But honestly, I was actually going to say what Lisa said in her first post. Maybe a rodent or 2 got in the walls and are crawling all over.

Whitman does similar things at times. Sometimes at night he will get worked up like something is either in the house or outside. He'll kind of do sounds that I would describe as whimpers, but not the ones a person would associate with fear or pain. More like frustration. I usually just ask him what's wrong and to show me what's wrong and I will follow him around the house and outside while he's searching for whatever it is. I
try to keep my ears open too for anything. After a bit, I just settle him down for bed.


Edit: Sorry if the ghost joke was a bad one, I just read the first page and since I'm on my phone I didn't realize the thread was 8 pages long. Since I saw that I figured its still a serious topic. Sorry about that David, I'll go read the other pages. Hope your boy Bernie is gonna be alright!


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

davidfitness83 said:


> Tye were you able to give her commands ? Not saying if you were doing obedience with her during an episode but what I mean is that Bernie will stop the growl immediately if I correct him and he will follow commands i sent him to his bed and he went immediately. On that staring video I let it go because I wantedto show you when he is searching for something that is not there but i can stop it if I want to and get him to do anything I want. Not trying to argue against you if anything I am digging in for more info.


Not when she was having a full blown grand mal, but during the head bob episodes yes I could and she would do them. Even her OB commands, sit, stay, look at me, go lay down, all of it she owuld do. IDk what to say but the only reason I amsaying anytihng is from my own expierence with this stuff, and liek I said call an exterminator and have them come out and look, just to rule that out as well. Is why I said a focal point seizure, they are still coherent and responsive to what you say.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Eric said:


> David, there's only one real answer..
> 
> Ghosts. Srsly.
> 
> ...


Bro I pray it's a ghost and I know you didn't mean any harm 

Let's see what happens during the next few days.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

I keep hearing the bob head and the other symptoms from those who have experienced this, is Bernie doing any of this?

Just wondering, i think its clear where i stand as to what it could be but i keep hearing these other symptoms but i haven't seen you (david) post where Bernie was doing any of this?


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> I keep hearing the bob head and the other symptoms from those who have experienced this, is Bernie doing any of this?
> 
> Just wondering, i think its clear where i stand as to what it could be but i keep hearing these other symptoms but i haven't seen you (david) post where Bernie was doing any of this?


I just want to say I totally respect your point of view an appreciate the way we can debate civilly about things here.
I don't think that David said he was doing the head bobbing but he kind of looked like he was starting to do it in the video which made me concerned. I really do hope that you are right on this. It's very hard to watch them like that.

@ David, I wish you guys all the best of luck and just keep an eye on him. If you need anything or just wanna talk send me a PM I'll give you my number (hugs to you both)


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

JMO David I think your are being scared unnecessarily with this whole seizure thing. I have said it over and over again I had 3 dogs who had epilepsy and they all had them in different ways, never once was I able to stop the head shaking in a partial seizure and give a command the dog could follow. Maybe if you catch them at the tail end of one or at the start but not once it starts. It is very clear something is wrong with the dog when they are having these small seizures including staring off in space and not being able to comply with commands. From the video if that is what he is doing and he has not had a partial seizure or grand mal then it is most likely something else. If this was the precursor to epilepsy you would start seeing other signs like a real seizure. I would not even consider this as a possibility until you have more symptoms. Again if you do an MRI and prove it, you still would do nothing. No meds unless the dog is having partial or grand mals on a daily bases. Putting them on meds is not something that is done lightly as the side effects could kill them faster than the seizures can. out of the 3 dogs I had I only had one that was bad enough to be put on meds and eventually we had to put her down. The others have all lived long healthy happy lives.

Again I would not worry unless there is more evidence other than the vet not knowing what to call it. I think you worrying it is seizures when there is no real evidence is going to make you crazy.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Ok I am NOT trying to scare anyone period, and yes all dogs are different, David just keep an eye on him and let us know what happens. Hugs to you both, I am gonna be silent now as I seem to be upsetting you and making you worry unnecessarily. Bernie is gonna be ok, more hugs


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

No need to be sarcastic I just mean lets not scare the poor guys if there is no real proof of seizures. Tye you have been really sensitive lately so I do not want to get into it with you. :hug:


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

I am not being sensitive Lisa, I promise, just seems like lately everything I say has been taken out of context and I apologize for that, like I said I am NOT trying to scare him, just giving my own personal experiences with Penny is all. Hugs


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

just relax man everythings fine if you let the stress get to you then it stresses every one else out even bernie im sure everythings fine. no need to stress


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

No growling as of yet, he has been on the aspirin for 2.5 days. I will be stopping the aspirin today because I know it's not good for their stomach and he is not growling. The head movement I taped was simply Bernie tracking or following something in the ceiling or the walls. This is why I made the reference to a ghost, it's not like he was just bobbing his head without control he was seriously focusing on something like there was something in the room. I could easily stop all of it, I can send him to his bed, I can tell him to sit and this is an indication to me that he might be hearing something that I cannot detect.

If God forbid he was dealing with a seizure there is no way this dog is going to listen to the OFF command and the BED command while going through one right? This is basically my main question. The staring towards the ceiling or wall is not him bobbing his head or loosing his sense, he is actually looking at those surface following something and he is completely focused on it. 

Once again you guys are the best and thank for the support


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Good luck David, all Iam saying is I could get Penny to listen when she was in this mode but not in full blown seizure mode. Hugs to you and Bernie.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I am doubting you Tye I am just asking you because there are a lot of theories on this. How long did it take for the bad seizures start after the focal ones started happening? Also, how often did the focal ones happen ?


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Is ok to doubt me, again I am only stating what I know from my expeirence with Penny. And when she had a focal seizure which was about once a month as her epilepsy was more severe, the grand mals started shortly after, if you are intune to your dog then you can catch them, like when Penny was going thru her OB class to get her CGC, I am soooo lucky the lady teaching the class was open to her problems and let us go when in one class, I gave her a command and she looked right thru me, like she was starin at the sky, I immidatly removed her from class and put her in the car with the ac on and took the stress she was feeling away, she also did this at the ADBA show when my niece showed her, but did not have a full blown grand mal either time cause I removed her from the stress. I am not sure what else to tell you, please check out the website I gave you, those people there can help you A LOT better than I can as some of them have been dealin with this for many years.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

David do you live in a place that has termites? I mean that part of the country, Like here we really do not have a termite problem but he could be detecting something that small in the walls. IDK that is my theory, or a ghost! lol If Bernie is detecting termites you can rent him out! lol


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Bed bug detector! You could rent Bernie out and make a living off his nose.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

lol Lisa and kate, ok David so I asked on the Canine Epi list and a few people have said something about the "fly bite" syndrome or it just being OCD behaviour, I like Lisa thoughts better though, rent him out for bug detection


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## APBT4LYFE (Jun 19, 2011)

any news on bernie??


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## lunchbox'spoppa (Jul 17, 2011)

there is a flea bothering him all tom and jerry style. It is in the carpet and he is saying im going to kill you flea. idk sounds weird to me


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

The growls stopped so I'm clueless. The blood test came up with high phosphorus and glucose but I read the screening should be done after 12 hours of fasting. I know high phosphorous levels could mean kidney problems. I have to chat with my vet again..


Thanks for the support


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## r0ckah0l1c (Jan 18, 2011)

Who is in the pictures on that wall he looks at? It looks as if he is finding somebody in the photos...or 2 people...and then stares them down head to toe [email protected][email protected]


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

davidfitness83 said:


> The growls stopped so I'm clueless. The blood test came up with high phosphorus and glucose but I read the screening should be done after 12 hours of fasting. I know high phosphorous levels could mean kidney problems. I have to chat with my vet again..
> 
> Thanks for the support


possibly a pack of rats that moved on?


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## r0ckah0l1c (Jan 18, 2011)

Our german shorthair died of kidney and liver failure... she would sometimes have pain after eating and cause her to grunt or moan...not growl though. What time of day is he doing it? Or is there no pattern?


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

SMH he looks normal and is obviously alert to something in those walls or sounds he is hearing that you can't from outside after seeing this I very much doubt anything is wrong with him. Again dogs are much MORE sensitive to smell and sound then we are ...

Good luck to you and Bernie 


Poor Bernie is like dude you don't hear that ???


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