# Blue Buffalo Recall



## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

I'm new to the forums, so please forgive me.

The other day I found out that BB has apparently gotten into trouble for having too much calcium and Vitamin D in their chicken dry dog food. And it was causing things like allergies, stinky breath, and kidney problems/failure in dogs. This apparently just happened because when I got my Ruby in November of 2011 I had done a ton of research on dog foods, and felt that BB Wilderness Puppy was a good choice.

There's not much information on the BB Wilderness Puppy so it's hard for me to assume that it's just as bad. I actually don't know a single person who uses it. But when I was food hunting I had to take into account that Ruby was born with kidney problems and a severe corn allergy. I have to monitor her urine constantly because she's prone to UTIs and stones. I really felt like BB was a good choice, and now I don't know what to believe. [A bit dramatic, but yeah it's aggravating.]

Ruby is about 6 months old and she doesn't eat a lot at all. She can eat 2-3 cups of BBWP a day, and she's usually just grazing on it. But in the morning I make her a wet food. [hamburger, broccoli, peas, carrots, sweet potatoes, and blueberries.] She loves fruit and fresh veggies. So I know that helps with keeping her acid levels down. [I'm educated on what they can and can not eat. No worries.] Maybe her holistic diet is enough to counteract the BB? What if BB is causing her UTIs? She also sheds like you wouldn't believe. Is that due to an allergic reaction?

Now I'm worried. Should I take her off BBWP? Because there's not much info on that type of food I don't really know what should be done. Should I just ween her off of it. I have 2 full 15lb bags, so I'd like to use them. She's still a puppy and still needs a puppy food, and most sites only grade adult food. I've heard Orijen has too high of calcium as well. Is there a decent grain free puppy food out there? Or am I just stuck in a never ending rut?

:woof:


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Blue Buffalo wilderness is over priced for the quality of feed you get.. I'm not sure where you get your feed but as a rule i say if its sold in larger pet retailers, avoid it.. These companies are pros at making the products seem far superior than what they actually are. Anything mass produced that heavily, you will have a far greater risk of contamination as well as variable quality consistency.. Some good batches, some mediocre, some bad.. All gets passed under the same brand, name and packaging..

You also have to question the quality of feed when a company produces in the same factory multiple "levels" of quality.. BB has a few different options geared towards different buyers, more limited, regular Blue Buffalo, and Wilderness.. Wilderness usually ranks high but on food reviews however it is taken at face value and not quality..

Granted it can be said just about all feeds, especially kibble form, are mass produced.. However it DOES make a huge difference when you factor in the quantity produced per year.. Then, if you want to go this far... Factor in how much the company spends on advertisement, how much the employees are paid, how much packaging costs, how much the company actually makes per bag, how much the store you bought it from makes off of each bag, mark ups, etc.. A LOT can be considered..

However if you use best judgement and a little common sense, you can avoid going into every little detail and find a good feed..

Since you know about kidney issues, its best to stay off of high protein diets if possible.. The rich in protein diets can cause un needed stress on the kidneys when processing the feed especially if we are talking about just a pet dog and one to for fill a purpose..

Is there a certain price range you are looking at? Any ingredients to stay away from? I can give you some suggestions if you'd like..


----------



## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

KMdogs said:


> Blue Buffalo wilderness is over priced for the quality of feed you get.. I'm not sure where you get your feed but as a rule i say if its sold in larger pet retailers, avoid it.. These companies are pros at making the products seem far superior than what they actually are. Anything mass produced that heavily, you will have a far greater risk of contamination as well as variable quality consistency.. Some good batches, some mediocre, some bad.. All gets passed under the same brand, name and packaging..
> 
> You also have to question the quality of feed when a company produces in the same factory multiple "levels" of quality.. BB has a few different options geared towards different buyers, more limited, regular Blue Buffalo, and Wilderness.. Wilderness usually ranks high but on food reviews however it is taken at face value and not quality..
> 
> ...


Anything grain free. And with a lower protein content then others. I'd really like to steer clear of anything "chicken" related. Roo loves duck and venison a lot. We pay about 60 bucks for BB. I don't mind paying a bit more for quality. But Roo is a grazer she doesn't eat a single sitting at once. [It'll cause her to vomit.] She likes to munch all day long, if that has any effect on what type of food she'd do well with. Any advice or suggestions would be awesome. ^_^


----------



## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

You can hit up small town feed stores, not sure if you have those, sort of ranching/farming community the next town over. Where most the family lives. Anyhow, I was able to find Taste of the Wild for under $40 for a 30lbs bag. All their stuff is much higher quality, and not one brand you'd see at some place like Wal-mart.


----------



## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

Celestial88 said:


> You can hit up small town feed stores, not sure if you have those, sort of ranching/farming community the next town over. Where most the family lives. Anyhow, I was able to find Taste of the Wild for under $40 for a 30lbs bag. All their stuff is much higher quality, and not one brand you'd see at some place like Wal-mart.


Do they make a puppy version?


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Celestial88 said:


> You can hit up small town feed stores, not sure if you have those, sort of ranching/farming community the next town over. Where most the family lives. Anyhow, I was able to find Taste of the Wild for under $40 for a 30lbs bag. All their stuff is much higher quality, and not one brand you'd see at some place like Wal-mart.


TOTW is not a consistent quality and based on his needs, wouldn't recommend it. Diamond currently has their SC plant shut down just after a recall on Diamonds Lamb Meal for contamination..

Here are a few grain free feeds i recommend..

Acana - $50 - $75 per 29.7 pounds

Instinct (kibble) - $52 - $70 per 26 pounds

Wellness CORE (not regular) - $55 - $75 per 26 pounds

Though all are going to be relatively high protein, the quality is higher which can reduce the stress load on the kidneys even though the protein is relative... Between 32 - 36 depending on which formula or brand. Wellness is on the bottom of the list though but produces with their CORE formulas decent food.. Though, i will say not the best out there and a bit pricey for the overall product.

Acana IMO would be the best bet to try first, owned by Champion producers of Orijen.. Same quality as Orijen with less meat sources, less protein but still excellent in terms of a kibble feed.

Raw is the most natural and quality assured feeding you can do, however there are a FEW good options on the market for kibble though honestly not many.. I'd say of all the feed options on the market theres probably less than 10 i'd actually recommend depending on the situation, cost, health, etc..


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> TOTW is not a consistent quality and based on his needs, wouldn't recommend it. Diamond currently has their SC plant shut down just after a recall on Diamonds Lamb Meal for contamination..
> 
> Here are a few grain free feeds i recommend..
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


----------



## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

KMdogs said:


> TOTW is not a consistent quality and based on his needs, wouldn't recommend it. Diamond currently has their SC plant shut down just after a recall on Diamonds Lamb Meal for contamination..
> 
> Here are a few grain free feeds i recommend..
> 
> ...


I really appreciate this reply. The reason I do her home-made food in the morning is because I really can't afford to make so much RAW dog food. Not to mention the space issue. So I do my best with what I have now. Also she can't handle a lot of food in one sitting, and with her home-made food she loves to eat it all in one big ol' sitting.

Now do those brands offer puppy options? Or does that even matter? Also should I finish the BB or just ween her off of it ASAP?


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

papertissue said:


> I really appreciate this reply. The reason I do her home-made food in the morning is because I really can't afford to make so much RAW dog food. Not to mention the space issue. So I do my best with what I have now. Also she can't handle a lot of food in one sitting, and with her home-made food she loves to eat it all in one big ol' sitting.
> 
> Now do those brands offer puppy options? Or does that even matter? Also should I finish the BB or just ween her off of it ASAP?


It doesn't have to be so long as they are all life stages.. Meaning, puppy, adult or senior can eat the same feed.

I hear you on the raw, the most expensive part is to get going after that its actually cheaper than kibble.. I have the space AND i hunt with my hounds so i have the space and access to cheap, quality meat.. Even so, i still feed kibble majority of the time.. After a hunt, i do some what of a BARF diet as they get their fair share of animal..

There are pros and cons to both, kibble has come along way but very few companies seem to understand what it takes to make a high quality supplement diet.. I say supplement because kibble has only been on the markets for about the last 105 years.. In terms of dog existence to kibble, its new for them and new to the market.. Before the introduction to the market, it was raw.


----------



## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

KMdogs said:


> It doesn't have to be so long as they are all life stages.. Meaning, puppy, adult or senior can eat the same feed.
> 
> I hear you on the raw, the most expensive part is to get going after that its actually cheaper than kibble.. I have the space AND i hunt with my hounds so i have the space and access to cheap, quality meat.. Even so, i still feed kibble majority of the time.. After a hunt, i do some what of a BARF diet as they get their fair share of animal..
> 
> There are pros and cons to both, kibble has come along way but very few companies seem to understand what it takes to make a high quality supplement diet.. I say supplement because kibble has only been on the markets for about the last 105 years.. In terms of dog existence to kibble, its new for them and new to the market.. Before the introduction to the market, it was raw.


Yeah I'd love to get Roo to hunt. Especially deer, because we'd both benefit from it. Luckily I live in an open city that has a lot of free-range meats and organic produce. It's just hard when you're a college student. Haha.

I will definitely try the Acana. I think she'll like the fish version, that or the one with duck and deer.


----------



## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

I was not recommending Taste of the Wild, nor any specific brand. I stated you can potentially find good deals on lesser known brands at feed stores and the likes.

If you can afford it, Orijen would be another awesome option.


----------



## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

Orijen looks great. Have you fed it personally? I was thinking of trying it, but every dog that comes into work who is on it has the most ghastly smelling poop ever and it's always slightly loose.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Kingsgurl said:


> Orijen looks great. Have you fed it personally? I was thinking of trying it, but every dog that comes into work who is on it has the most ghastly smelling poop ever and it's always slightly loose.


This is probably due to people not understanding high protein diets.. If you do not up the water intake loose stool can happen.. As well as extra burden to the kidneys and digestive process. Of those i've seen feed it, i've noticed the exact opposite..

I would still be feeding it if i could get it locally, was driving too far to justify.. I'm now feeding Instinct. When i was feeding Orijen, much like with raw diets, poop was extremely small, smelled occasionally but far better than other commercial feeds and excellent results. Instinct, for my hounds, similar results but i'd prefer to be on Orijen still.


----------



## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

I haven't fed it myself because of the price+drive, I would like to later on depending on where I end up living and how much money I make. The raw market isn't that great right now, my friend's lucky, her husband hunts so she gets her meats from him. (not enough to spare though) 

But I know a lot of people who have dogs who've done really well on it, particularly active sporting/working dogs.


----------



## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

Thanks for the replies guys. The dogs have unlimited access to water, so perhaps it's an issue more specific to the individual dogs.
I have to watch what I feed my female, she has malformed kidney's, was just wondering for the rest of the pack. I've shied away from it due to my experience with these particular dogs.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Kingsgurl said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. The dogs have unlimited access to water, so perhaps it's an issue more specific to the individual dogs.
> I have to watch what I feed my female, she has malformed kidney's, was just wondering for the rest of the pack. I've shied away from it due to my experience with these particular dogs.


You could be right, not all dogs can process the same food the same, a big bulk of it consisting of breeding practices and poor diets.

A poor diet can create issues that were never there really to begin with and i'd say as high as 7 times out of 10 skin allergies are feed based vs. anything else.

Once those issues are there, switching to a higher quality feed is then 50 - 50 to fix the issues depending on how long it was allowed to keep.. Usually new issues are corrected, feeding years on poor quality feed to switch to a much better suited diet can shock the dogs body and immediately reject it..

Dog digestive tracks are specifically designed to be diverse in its ability to break down a wide variety of things.. If a dog is surviving off poor quality, people think they are getting everything they need.. Truth is, you are slowly starving that said dog of nutrients they NEED to thrive and be 100% healthy.

Sort of like if you ate fast food quality foods every day for years, poor quality to eat every day but you've managed it.. Then out of the blue you decided to switch to organic meats, veggies, etc.. You would get sick as :flush: and feel like absolute death.. It shocks the body.. Same with vise versa.

Its similar concept to what a dogs body can go through, on a generalized basis not AS extreme but it can.


----------



## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

All true. That's what makes it a bit of a tightrope with my one female (finding high quality feed that isn't too high in protein) She can't handle the higher (dry) protein of some of the foods I would like to feed. Kidney issues are a bitch, and yes, she is poorly bred. Never tried anything cheap, afraid she would keel over dead, lol.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Kingsgurl said:


> All true. That's what makes it a bit of a tightrope with my one female (finding high quality feed that isn't too high in protein) She can't handle the higher (dry) protein of some of the foods I would like to feed. Kidney issues are a bitch, and yes, she is poorly bred. Never tried anything cheap, afraid she would keel over dead, lol.


If you can raw would really be the best option, the quality is always there, more natural and the protein is that of natural source so its far lower than dehydrated meats.

Of course, if its not an option than it is a tough spot to be in. More of the higher quality, "most appropriate" dog foods out there have much more meat sources than others which in return means higher protein since its not water consistency.. At least, not all of it.

Your best bet would probably be a limited ingredient feed that has good to great quality products, grain free and low protein.

I know Instinct has a LTD "version" out now which is a lot like the regular Instinct but without as much meat content.. Basically 1 - 2 meats, a few veggies then the rest is vitamins and minerals. It might be an option for you.

The turkey and the lamb ones have 29% protein, here is the ingredients listed for the Lamb Meal one..
Lamb Meal, Tapioca, Canola Oil, Peas, Natural Flavor, Montmorillonite Clay, Coconut Oil, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Carotene, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Sea Salt, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide), Dried Green Tea, Mixed Tocopherols with Citric Acid (a natural preservative), Rosemary Extract

Each one is a little different, i believe the Turkey formula for the LTD has the highest protein for the LTDs and so i wouldn't suggest that one.

Thats one option to consider, there is a few decent LTDs on the market though my biggest issue with them is the lack of meat.


----------

