# Should a Dog Die Because a Man Can’t Read?



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I found this article amusing. Thought you might all like to read it.

There was an article in the New York Daily News about how a man was "mauled by three vicious pit bulls when he entered a fenced yard to pass out menus" even though there was a sign that clearly read "Beware of Dog."

The man, Chinese immigrant Xiu Ming Li who has lived in America for 26 years, was bitten on his legs, arm, and head and had an earlobe chewed off.

The man's daughter, outraged, argued that her father couldn't read English; therefore, the sign was useless. The three dogs were taken into custody, where one died, presumably of a heart attack due to the incident.

The story mainly focuses on the man and the injuries he suffered, but, call me unsympathetic, my heart really goes out to the dog that was killed. And, yes, I am using the word killed because that's what happened.

The owner clearly had a warning sign, cautioning visitors (unwelcomed or not) of the presence of guard dogs -- dogs who are territorial and will go at lengths to protect their family. The guy had been living in America for 26 years ... I'm sorry, but there is no reason why he shouldn't have learned the language by now. Not to mention that entering a fenced-in area, regardless of warning signs, is considered trespassing in most states. And if you need to unlatch a gate to enter a property, it probably means you shouldn't be going in there in the first place. Literary knowledge isn't needed to know that -- it's called common sense.

In my opinion, the dogs were just doing their job.

The laws for dog attacks vary from state to state, but for the majority, they read something like this:

The owner of any dog that has bitten a human being shall have the duty to take such reasonable steps as are necessary to remove any danger presented to other persons from bites by the animal.

Whenever a dog has bitten a human being on at least two separate occasions, any person, the district attorney, or city attorney may bring an action against the owner of the animal to determine whether conditions of the treatment or confinement of the dog or other circumstances existing at the time of the bites have been changed so as to remove the danger to other persons presented by the animal. This action shall be brought in the county where a bite occurred. The court, after hearing, may make any order it deems appropriate to prevent the recurrence of such an incident, including, but not limited to, the removal of the animal from the area or its destruction if necessary.

BUT ...

Nothing in this section shall authorize the bringing of an action pursuant to subdivision (b) based on a bite or bites inflicted upon a trespasser, or by a dog used in military or police work if the bite or bites occurred while the dog was actually performing in that capacity.

Trespassing -- which is allegedly what the man was doing, since he came into a fenced-in property, uninvited. And though the police have no plans to charge the dog owner (and she'll get her two dogs that did survive back as long as she produces registration papers), one dog died in this incident and nothing is being done. Should animal rights not be considered in this situation? If someone came onto a property, uninvited, and caused a human to die during a struggle when protecting their home, you bet your ass the intruder would be charged.

What do you think should have happened in this situation? Do you think the fact that he couldn't read lets him off the hook (or puts the responsibility in the owner's hands)? Or do you think Xiu should be charged?










Should a Dog Die Because a Man Can?t Read? | The Stir


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## ares41409 (Oct 17, 2010)

he so called lived here for 26yrs umm ya he can read there just playing the i am not from here game to make some money thats all it is


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## spatulars (Sep 30, 2010)

He might not be able to read, but why wouldn't he exit the yard upon seeing 3 large dogs?


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## Roxy_Nie (Oct 10, 2008)

I don't think the dog or the owners are at fault. It doesn't matter the breed of dog.


If I saw a yard with a "Beware Of Dog" sign and all I saw were 3 Chihuahuas, you better believe I'm not going in there..LOL.


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## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

If the dog was contained in private property and that person went in ignoring signs then it's that persons fault.

If I have a fence, take a hint that I don't want your flier, leave it in my mailbox.


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

I think the man should be reimbursed for the demise of his dog. The man trespassed on his property. If you go to another country and don't learn to recognize warning signs that's not any ones fault but your own. I'm pretty sure a fence is a universal language in the first place though.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

aimee235 said:


> I think the man should be reimbursed for the demise of his dog. The man trespassed on his property. If you go to another country and don't learn to recognize warning signs that's not any ones fault but your own. I'm pretty sure a fence is a universal language in the first place though.


you can bet,had this been done in costa rica,they'd not have taken the dog,and everyone would not in the slightest way feel pity.
them folks have barbed wire,they put big shards of glass into the top mortar level of block and concrete walls.
should you cut yourself,theirs no way you'd get anything from anybody.
we live in A to entitled society.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

william williamson said:


> *we live in A to entitled society*.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

You got that right!!!


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm trying to grasp this from both angles. If someone got mauled to death on my property, I'd feel horrible no matter what, solicitor - what have you. I'd also be ticked off if one of my dogs died from the scenario but it sounds as if the dog wasn't in that great of health to be a yard dog to begin with if it died from cardiac arrest. Which also makes me wonder about the state of health for the other dogs to... Not to stray off topic but just pondering a few details.

He may not have spoken english, my neighbors next door have 3 kids all english speaking. But the mom does not, very sweet lady nonetheless. And their kids are very well mannered & behaved. My husband helps their oldest on the car. We got to talking a bit & asked why his mom doesn't speak much english. Her own son said he gets annoyed with her that she won't but since she's a homemaker just hasn't. I don't hold it against them, it's their prerogative. But that just goes to show why one should learn english, their safety depends on it. 

English speaking or not, sign or not. If a person gets hurt on someone else's property, the property owner is held liable - that's how insurance works. 

I don't think it's fair though that a dog should have to suffer for an incident on what it was trained to do.

Very gray scenario, just plain sucks 


But I feel it does just go to show how as dog owners. We need to rethink what the term 'responsible ownership' means.


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## heflinskennel (Sep 14, 2010)

this entire thing is BS 26 years in america and cant ready go back to where you can read (this just needed to be said ) I think its BS that someone in port saint lucie wants to tell others that if something happens on there property its the property owners. if that is true the it is floridas problem not to leaser you know and I know you will never truely own property there the state can and will take what they want when and how ever they want. when the huricane hit five 7 years ago it took two years for the insurance to get around to rebuild my house and three monthes after that the county took my house because they wanted to widen the freakin road and gave me crap on building another one. so after 4 years liveing in va and fighting with this and that i gave up took my money and my dogs back to va. off top I know but I dont care anymore. the way I see it. if you walk on my property threw a posted fence to give me a f-ing menu if one of my dogs dont get you I will. the owner did what they are surpose to do put up a warning sign in english. what is this do we now have to get one made in spanish french and jive so people will know what is going on. I am venting because this crap is getting old.


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## FamilyLinePits (May 18, 2010)

Lex's Guardian said:


> He may not have spoken english, my neighbors next door have 3 kids all english speaking. But the mom does not, very sweet lady nonetheless.....she won't but since she's a homemaker just hasn't. I don't hold it against them, it's their prerogative. But that just goes to show why one should learn english, their safety depends on it.
> 
> English speaking or not, sign or not. If a person gets hurt on someone else's property, the property owner is held liable - that's how insurance works.


Just wanted to address a few things in your post...
Your neighbor doesn't speak english, and lets say (hypothetically), That she goes and begins dumping her garbage in your yard, Stealing your newspaper, and trespassing on your property and all hours of the day and night....
Lets say (hypothetically), That she sends her kids to tell you that its ok because she doesn't speak english... Does this excuse fly? Not for me.

Now, Lets say I move to, oh, France, I live their for 26 years, And i get a ticket for driving on the wrong side of the road and causing an accident with several serious injuries. Do you think the excuse "I don't read or speak French" is going pass as a reasonable excuse?

I am Mexican, Born in Puerto Vallarta, Jalisco...I still believe that if you want to go to another country, You had better learn the language QUICK.
Most of these foreigners that claim to not speak English, Actually do, They just don't like to because they feel silly.

As for your comment claiming the property owner is responsible....I'm not sure of your state laws, But in Texas, If someone trespasses on your property, It doesn't matter if they speak english, latin, or german, They are trespassing, Which is a crime. It doesn't matter if they break their neck trying to get in my house, Or If I open my kennels and lets all my dogs jump on him, If he is in the process of committing a crime, I am simple saving the day.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

well i dont know I thought most warning signs shapes and colors and content looked similar so you would think just by the look of it he would have known not to go in there and how did he not see the dogs, weird. It is unfortunate that the man was just trying to put an advertisment on the door. To me the dog must have had a pre existing illness for this to cause it to die. sad though i sure as hell would have been pissed off.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

also i think some are forgetting this guy was not commiting a crime. and apparently the guys property was not locked so I dont think you can call that tresspassing. just because someone walks up to my front door I cant shoot them and say they were tresspassing


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

I DO believe this is trespassing!!!! any the dog and owner are not at fault, language aside he should not have been on then persons property and the dogs did there job and defended there home. I believe the trespasser should be charged and nothing should happen to the dogs owner. That is my option without involving a language bearer at all.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

This is really a touchy situation, and obviously we all have different views on this subject. Each state has different laws. Yes, in TX if someone comes on your property, it's trespassing (I know b/c I grew up in TX, spent over half my life in TX), however, GA doesn't have a self-defense law, so if said person comes on your property, reguardless of the reason, and they're injured, they can sue you and you (property owner/lesser) are liable for any hospital bills and injuries that said person incurs. 

Heflins Kennel, please watch your language, and be mindful that this forum consists of many different races and ethnicities. I've had to warn you about your language in other threads before, and this is your only warning in this thread. While I understand your passion, and you and everyone else is sick of the BSL targetted at our breed, you have to be mindful of what you say. We have child members here that can read these things you post, as well as adults who may get offended by certain terms you use. 

Ok, now, let's continue this discussion tactfully, please. Thank you!


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

FamilyLinePits said:


> Just wanted to address a few things in your post...
> Your neighbor doesn't speak english, and lets say (hypothetically), That she goes and begins dumping her garbage in your yard, Stealing your newspaper, and trespassing on your property and all hours of the day and night....
> Lets say (hypothetically), That she sends her kids to tell you that its ok because she doesn't speak english... Does this excuse fly? Not for me.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you one bit:clap:. I was just pointing out the fact that whether a person speak's English or not, if someone were to trespass on my property & break their ankle tripping over my water hose (much less get bit by one of my dogs -doubtful). I as the property owner can still be held accountable for that person (trespassing or not) getting hurt - that's why it's a law to have business insurance/home owners. Yes they can still get in trouble for trespassing but they can also go after my insurance if they so choose. It's messed up but that's our system in a nutshell...

Our Hispanic neighbors are actually quite lovely ppl. It's our English speaking neighbors w/ 4 kids that we've experienced trespassing issues with in the past, how's that for irony .

With a home it's obvious common sense & common courtesy to knock on someone's door first. This sounds like a business scenario & yes though he was soliciting/trespassing. Despite the sign, he can still hold that property owner liable - whether he can or can't read it is really irrelevant. At least that's how it'd be in the state of FL. Though he'd possibly get a slap on the wrist, if at all for trespassing (doubtful in FL).

I had issues with the other neighbors kids trespassing, leaving trash, kicking balls into my house & windows. I didn't have a sign but had asked them to stay out of my & my hubby's yard. Finally it came to me calling the cops, the cop came out & spoke to the boys. But they officer also let me know if they were to do something stupid on my property & get hurt, I could be held accountable. Because it happened on my property...

It's bogus the way things work, really. Can't say I agree whole heartedly but as a property owner I would never leave my dogs in an unsupervised situation with the potential of some idiot doing somethings stupid & making a false claim.

That's more of what I'm trying to say.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

You dont need to speak english to know what a beware of dog sign is. I also know all yards with outdoor dogs have tell tail signs dogs are around. I would think that the company who hired someone who does not speak english to go door to door without showing him what no soliciting or beware signs look like is the one at fault, if anyone. No one should profit from accidents IMO no matter who was at fault (as long as no laws are broken causing the accident. The whole situation sucks. The dog that has the heart attack could have had one at anytime like people could. Sucks all around but I completely feel the daughter needs to place responsibility on her father.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

ames said:


> You dont need to speak english to know what a beware of dog sign is. I also know all yards with outdoor dogs have tell tail signs dogs are around. I would think that the company who hired someone who does not speak english to go door to door without showing him what no soliciting or beware signs look like is the one at fault, if anyone. No one should profit from accidents IMO no matter who was at fault (as long as no laws are broken causing the accident. The whole situation sucks. The dog that has the heart attack could have had one at anytime like people could. Sucks all around but I completely feel the daughter needs to place responsibility on her father.


No doubt... What I keep wondering though is where was the owner of the dogs while this was going on. IMO this is where a security system & camera's would have paid off more so in the long run opposed to 'guard dogs'...

What I also keep wondering, is if the man that was passing out fliers is also the owner of the restaurant, as chinese restaurants tend to be family owned & operated. I mean, when I order Chinese food, they don't speak clear English ever & if that's what their lives consist of. I can understand the difficulties of learning English or not being able to read speak clearly more so when a person is asian. Learning English from Chinese isn't the same as Spanish to English. It's a whole different alphabet altogether. I mean it's not like they're coming to this country on vaca - they're fleeing for humanitarian possibilities. I've walked past kids (8/10yrs) standing outside of a local Walmart handing out fliers to customers & asked them what they're doing & where the parents are - they explain they help out after school.

I think this is just a situation of wrong place/wrong time... I don't think everyone in this world is out for a free paycheck. Or out to do us dog owners or our beloved apbt friends wrong. But  happens

But I agree, common sense is world wide common knowledge (I think

As if though 'land mines aka doggie poo' & a fence isn't warning enough...

Though ppl are desperate for business these days & willing to go beyond lengths to get business.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

I'll bet he checks for dogs next time


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## Lvis (Mar 4, 2010)

sucks for him but some people just have to take the LOSS and deal with it....... not the owners or dogs fault. It was an accident so nobody should be punished


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

I still cant believe he just lost an ear lobe though that guy got lucky it wasnt worse.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I have to say that there is a lot of people in America who don't speak or read english. But if you have lived here for any amount of time you should no that you can not just walk in to some ones closed off property if so then you are in the wrong. For people who live in those states that will make you pay the bills of an intruder, wow I would move. Make my day law rules.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Oklahoma State Senate - News
Dog are the last thing to worry about here.


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## FamilyLinePits (May 18, 2010)

Lex's Guardian said:


> IMO this is where a security system & camera's would have paid off more so in the long run opposed to 'guard dogs'...
> 
> ...But I agree, common sense is world wide common knowledge


Remember the news article about the cop who responded to a false alarm when a home security alarm was triggered? He killed the family dog, had animal control pick up the body, and left a note for the family.

I will NEVER have a monitored home security system, Thats why I thank God daily that I live in Texas. God Bless laws like our Castle Law and Make My Day law!

I have 17 No Trespassing signs and Beware of Dog signs around my property, and it is only half an acre. But at least when I shoot someone for trespassing, They can't say "Oh, I didn't see the sign" 

... Maybe I'll go ahead and get those signs translated into 27 different languages so there is no confusion, LOL


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## heflinskennel (Sep 14, 2010)

theladypitbull
Heflins Kennel, please watch your language, and be mindful that this forum consists of many different races and ethnicities. I've had to warn you about your language in other threads before, and this is your only warning in this thread. While I understand your passion, and you and everyone else is sick of the BSL targetted at our breed, you have to be mindful of what you say. We have child members here that can read these things you post, as well as adults who may get offended by certain terms you use.

I want to know where on my post did I say one thing racest. please in light me I know I come across like a jerk most of the time. but for someone to call me out and emply as i am a racest. I may be alot of things but racest is not one of them. and like I said in my email to you I will try my hardest to watch my language. my point is if you understood what i said in the three abreaviations that I did why cant someone after 26 years learn to read a sign. they are common sence. try this get a group on english french spanish germain and the rest of the so called rases out there and hold your middle finger up to all of them I BET YOU EVERYONE OF THEM KNOWS WHAT THAT MEANS. and not one of them will know sign language. now this is just an example so dont get anything twisted please. maybe I should not have said that someone might get offend but how else am I surpose to put it.


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## TheStunnah (Oct 13, 2010)

huh he so should of been able to read! Iv worked with asians that have just come over from asia and couldnt even speak a word of english bt within 8-10 months they have lernt the language...that person hu entred the yard is at fault here not the dogs!..not even i would enter a yard that has a closed gate unless the owners said it was alryt to enter...y didnt he go knock on the front door?..lol..


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## FamilyLinePits (May 18, 2010)

Helfinskennel,
I don't believe she was calling you a racist (not racest), She was simply trying to avoid people being offended by at least one of the terms you used. 
She stated, very calmly in my opinion, That you should watch your language...not only foul language, but words that could be construed in a manner that would offend someone.
If you have further issues, you might want to message her instead of throwing this thread off track of the issue.

On track, I think a majority of the people here are in agreement that the owner and the dogs are not liable.
Why is it so difficult for the general public to come to same understanding of this as we have?


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

I think It has to do with 

1. people always want to assign blame even if thats not always the case

and 

2. Any time people hear about dogs attacking they think the dogs at fault.
or the dog must be vicous or so on.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

heflinskennel said:


> theladypitbull
> Heflins Kennel, please watch your language, and be mindful that this forum consists of many different races and ethnicities. I've had to warn you about your language in other threads before, and this is your only warning in this thread. While I understand your passion, and you and everyone else is sick of the BSL targetted at our breed, you have to be mindful of what you say. We have child members here that can read these things you post, as well as adults who may get offended by certain terms you use.
> 
> I want to know where on my post did I say one thing racest. please in light me I know I come across like a jerk most of the time. but for someone to call me out and emply as i am a racest. I may be alot of things but racest is not one of them. and like I said in my email to you I will try my hardest to watch my language. my point is if you understood what i said in the three abreaviations that I did why cant someone after 26 years learn to read a sign. they are common sence. try this get a group on english french spanish germain and the rest of the so called rases out there and hold your middle finger up to all of them I BET YOU EVERYONE OF THEM KNOWS WHAT THAT MEANS. and not one of them will know sign language. now this is just an example so dont get anything twisted please. maybe I should not have said that someone might get offend but how else am I surpose to put it.


I didn't imply or call you a racist. I simply said for you to please watch what you say, and how you say it. Some people may be easily offended by the terminology or words you use in references to certain races regarding their language. I completely understand where you're coming from, and though I don't get easily offended (and I'm multi-racial), some other members of this forum may just by reading your post and the terminology you used. Saying that we should post signs in English, French and *Jive* wasn't necessarily acceptable, depending on who you ask. You could've just said posting signs in other languages in addition to English. I think that would've sufficed, and everyone would've understood w/out anyone getting offended.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

Randy: Can I get you something? 
Second Jive Dude: 'S'mofo butter layin' me to da' BONE! Jackin' me up... tight me! 
Randy: I'm sorry, I don't understand. 
First Jive Dude: Cutty say 'e can't HANG! 
Jive Lady: Oh stewardess! I speak jive. 
Randy: Oh, good. 
Jive Lady: He said that he's in great pain and he wants to know if you can help him. 
Randy: All right. Would you tell him to just relax and I'll be back as soon as I can with some medicine? 
Jive Lady: [to the Second Jive Dude] Jus' hang loose, blood. She gonna catch ya up on da' rebound on da' med side. 
Second Jive Dude: What it is, big mama? My mama no raise no dummies. I dug her rap! 
Jive Lady: Cut me some slack, Jack! Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da' help! 
First Jive Dude: Say 'e can't hang, say seven up! 
Jive Lady: Jive a** dude don't got no brains anyhow! Hmmph! (Airplane!) hope this doesnt get me in trouble


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

Rumack: Can you fly this plane, and land it? 
Ted Striker: Surely you can't be serious. 
Rumack: I am serious... and don't call me Shirley. (Airplane!):roll:


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

FamilyLinePits said:


> Remember the news article about the cop who responded to a false alarm when a home security alarm was triggered? He killed the family dog, had animal control pick up the body, and left a note for the family.
> 
> I will NEVER have a monitored home security system, Thats why I thank God daily that I live in Texas. God Bless laws like our Castle Law and Make My Day law!
> 
> ...


According to the article these dogs weren't 'pets' per se', they were guard dogs - which as most of us know pitbulls are not meant to be guard dogs, they're family dogs, can also make great hunting dogs. What I'm saying is to have a security system for your business (sounds like it was a 'junk yard') instead of 'guard dogs'.

I wouldn't have a monitored system for my home either because of that incident. But I also feel that's where crating your dog comes in handy while a person is not home, I crate my dogs when I leave my home just to be sure.

-now I reread this & it comes off cold & to the point - I'm not trying to come off cold or jerkish sounding but it's hard to emphasize emotion on a computer screen


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

there breed aside (who really knows what they are they could be masstive/lab mixes being called pit because they have a big head) they where gaurd dogs, placed there with a purpose and they did there job quit well it seems :clap:, the problem is it wasn't a burglar or killer or child molester they attacked, a sign was put up to tell you that there where dogs on a job there and the guy ignored it! the dogs/owner of the dogs are not at fault JMO


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## heflinskennel (Sep 14, 2010)

I understand alittle but slightly confused on how JIVE could be construde as racist (sorry i spelt that wrong earlier. heck they teach JIVE, ebonics cant spell it. people even wanted to make it a secondary language. SO if I offended any one for saying it I am sorry. 

So let me try it this way i will. Would you let someone build your house if they cant read a ruler? Would you give someone your car that cant read a road sign? Would you give someone a dog knowing they will not feed it? or WOULD YOU LET ME PROOF READ FOR YOU KNOWING I CANT SPELL. so why would someone come to the usa live for 26 years and not even learn the lang. I would not move to france if I did not learn the basics, and i love france.


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## CLIPSbarondavis (Oct 18, 2010)

Having a "beware of dog" sign is like standing outside begging "HEY COME TO MY HOUSE AND SUE ME!" A lot of insurance agencies will not insure properties that they know have such signs up. It goes back to that whole robbery/but I sue you thing. It sucks for the dog that died, but I'm with the immigrant on this one. 

The only way he would be charged with trespassing would be if the sign read "Beware of Dog and No Loitering"


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## Jester09 (Oct 22, 2009)

So wait... He's going door to door... In America... And doesn't speak english... Handing out Menus that are HOPEFULLY in english, or else *I* know that *I* would have no idea what they say. AND if they ARE in english, this guy could be handing out prostitution newletters for all he knows, unless he can READ English but not speak it, in which case he should have been able to read the sign.
Either way, WHY would someone who does NOT speak English go door to door in a prodominantly English COUNTRY in the first place?!
Also. 26 years without being able to order anything but what's on the language you speak, without being able to drive because he OBVIOUSLY can't read road signs. Is he even legal to WORK in the US? Shouldn't he have SOME basic reading knowledge to be able to do so?

I call BS.


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