# True Bloodline Discussion



## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

to be continued here. The former one was deleted as it got headed in the wrong direction. It could have, possibly should have been stopped earlier but I just couldnt let it go, I hate when others want to belittle members with inaccurate information. That being said, Im sorry it went down the way it did so lets continue the post!


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Some of those posts where really good, couldn't you have deleted the bad posts? There was a lot of info in this thread. I see your reasoning tho.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Ah man, it was fun reading that post... lol. Oh well, I'm sure it will get interesting again. Let's see, what was that last question I had asked? 

That's right, why is Juan Gotti's pedigree missing information? Anyone know?


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## silent water kennel (Apr 30, 2008)

Did I miss anything? Cause there are a lot of posts missing...


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## intensive (Apr 22, 2008)

lol damn i started some shit, i guess ill just hope next time the thread i start wont explode into that.

whats everyones problem with juan gottis bloodline? i havent heard of him missing anything, can someone explain?


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

I agree some of the stuff posted was in need of...a :flush:


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

It was a link that was posted that had some of the generations missing, but I guess it was just a glitch or something with the link. I looked it up right now on google, and everything appears... sooooo never mind...


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I really liked that thread, I actually just got on looking for it! Where did we leave off at?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

NesOne said:


> It was a link that was posted that had some of the generations missing, but I guess it was just a glitch or something with the link. I looked it up right now on google, and everything appears... sooooo never mind...


depending on what ped you look at some are not complete due to that fact that whoever entered them didn't have all the info needed.

Going back to the true line thing. I will resay that its not really the line. It is how the breeders have taken the line. I will use my dog as an example. I think Mae is a gorgeous APBT.


























However would it surprise you to find that this dog is 1/2 bully by pedigree? Yes I said bully. Her fathers side is all Ambully. She however doesn't look bully due to how the breeder had taken her breeding. If she was bred to a bully I believe she would throw me bullys lol.. But if I breed her to a dog like her without bully backgound I would get APBT lol.. all in what the breeder decides he/she is aiming for.

Click for Ped
HERRICKS LADY DUMAE


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## Msmith1 (Dec 23, 2007)

yeah if you go on those ped sites a lot of dogs are missing info... but on paper they are complete...


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## Sr6 (Mar 8, 2008)

okay so now with all this info coming from so many different people i am just curious of the real definitions of what a mutt is? because i saw a lot of people saying if your dog didnt have these bloodlines they were a mutt i guess i am oblivious and will be the first to admit my ignorance on this but i just want a real explanation on it.......because the puppy i picked up probably has no real bloodlines but is classified is a "pit bull" and a short one at that.... and she has papers (which i haven't registered her on) but none of that stuff matters too me. i guess what matters to me is i love her and i am treating her right. But still i am really curious as too what the difference is i know the difference between the American staff and American bull terrier and American pit bull terrier ect. but am not sure what classify s them as a mutt? and if they are a mutt are they a mixed breed cause i have a German Shepard/begal mix and he is a mutt....


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

> But still i am really curious as too what the difference is i know the difference between the American staff and American bull terrier and American pit bull terrier ect. but am not sure what classify s them as a mutt? and if they are a mutt are they a mixed breed cause i have a German Shepard/begal mix and he is a mutt....
> __________________


This is a fair question. I think the issue is it seems that terms get crossed and definitions get ambiguous. Is an AmBully a mutt? Not really,its an AmBully. However its not a true APBT by standard. Often the AmBully or BUlly owners claim they own APBT and the APBT crowd is very defensive and wants to make a clear distinction between the two dogs. What makes a mutt a mutt is the breeding of several different BREEDS not bloodlines. So if you have a Carver/Redboy/Jeep/Eli/Midnight Cowboy cross, its not a mutt its an APBT. However if you have a Gotti/RE/ its not a mutt, its a BUllY. I believe we are at the point the Bully should be recognized as its own breed. Did they deviate from the ABPT to get it, of course, however they have been consistent in their breeding program so I would consider the AmBully to be its own breed. The dogs are reproducing after themselves. This leads to a very sensitive area, the crossing of Game APBT with AmBully. By my definition this would in a techincal sense be classified as a mutt, (mutt just seems very deragatory term) and honestly I dont understand it, but thats just me. I think the term crossbred would fit more appropriately as the dogs are still in the same "family", that being bulldogs.


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Do they look like one specific breed or 2 or more combined?
At any rate they will eventually become a pure bred considering how popular they are..JMHO


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

The way I see it, and this is just an opinion, the ambully is a mutt at this point in time. Atleast until there is consistancy, a set standard, and breed recognition from atleast one of the major kennel clubs. I like bullies, don't get me wrong... I understand how starting a new breed works, but right now there are bullies out there bred 6X and 4X and 3X, there are just too many variations at this moment. Does that make any sense or am I just blowing smoke outta my a**? And another thing, is mutt really THAT dirty of a word?


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## CaSk (Aug 18, 2006)

reddoggy said:


> The way I see it, and this is just an opinion, the ambully is a mutt at this point in time. Atleast until there is consistancy, a set standard, and breed recognition from atleast one of the major kennel clubs. I like bullies, don't get me wrong... I understand how starting a new breed works, but right now there are bullies out there bred 6X and 4X and 3X, there are just too many variations at this moment. Does that make any sense or am I just blowing smoke outta my a**? And another thing, is mutt really THAT dirty of a word?


*This, is a good post and i agree, i dont like bullys but i also dont mind them if they just went with AMERICAN BULLY our whatever name they want to be besides anything APBT. And i am talking about APBT STANDARDS the way it was back in the days.*


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## CaSk (Aug 18, 2006)

OldFortKennels said:


> This is a fair question. I think the issue is it seems that terms get crossed and definitions get ambiguous. Is an AmBully a mutt? Not really,its an AmBully. However its not a true APBT by standard. Often the AmBully or BUlly owners claim they own APBT and the APBT crowd is very defensive and wants to make a clear distinction between the two dogs. What makes a mutt a mutt is the breeding of several different BREEDS not bloodlines. So if you have a Carver/Redboy/Jeep/Eli/Midnight Cowboy cross, its not a mutt its an APBT. However if you have a Gotti/RE/ its not a mutt, its a BUllY. I believe we are at the point the Bully should be recognized as its own breed. Did they deviate from the ABPT to get it, of course, however they have been consistent in their breeding program so I would consider the AmBully to be its own breed. The dogs are reproducing after themselves. This leads to a very sensitive area, the crossing of Game APBT with AmBully. By my definition this would in a techincal sense be classified as a mutt, (mutt just seems very deragatory term) and honestly I dont understand it, but thats just me. I think the term crossbred would fit more appropriately as the dogs are still in the same "family", that being bulldogs.


*And i agree with this post. :goodpost: *


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## Sr6 (Mar 8, 2008)

well i guess i will really never know what my dog is, i know where her parents came from and thats about it. i guess i could possibly find out but i don't care really. she is who she is. mutt or not. and i am not breeding her so her muttyness stops here.  and when you are saying ambully are you talking about American...... ? Thanks for the info even though there are a lot of blood lines and i am still not sure what classifies something as a bully and not one, i am guessing just the bloodlines, since in earlier posts people stated it was too hard to tell the difference just looking at them.. correct? I know i should of went with a Pomeranian. jk.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Sr6 said:


> well i guess i will really never know what my dog is, i know where her parents came from and thats about it. i guess i could possibly find out but i don't care really. she is who she is. mutt or not. and i am not breeding her so her muttyness stops here.  and when you are saying ambully are you talking about American...... ? Thanks for the info even though there are a lot of blood lines and i am still not sure what classifies something as a bully and not one, i am guessing just the bloodlines, since in earlier posts people stated it was too hard to tell the difference just looking at them.. correct? I know i should of went with a Pomeranian. jk.


AmBully = American Bully (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/a/americanbully.htm). Take a look at the pic in that link, and tell me if you would call that a pitbull...

The main difference, I think, between an AmBully and an APBT is the weight, and the size/structure of the head. An APBT should not weigh more than approx. 65 lbs. So, when someone says that they have a pit that weighs 95 lbs. it makes me think AmBully right away. Even though there have been counts of APBT's weighing that much back in the day before the AmBully came about.

So, what you can do is look around at alot of pics and you'll start noticing the differences.


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## johnsontofk (Apr 5, 2008)

what do you consider a ambully? as far as apbt amstaff other apbt amstaff cross any others?


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

johnsontofk said:


> as far as apbt amstaff other apbt amstaff cross any others?


Not quite sure what your question is, but if you're asking what did they cross the APBT with to get the AmBully... I think there have been a lot of experimentation with it, because I've seen some that look like they crossed an APBT with an American Bulldog, APBT with English Bulldog, APBT with Mastiff, and then probably crossed them all back with each other. For all I know, they could have not even used an APBT since some American Bulldogs have similar facial features as APBT's.

Look at these pictures, and you tell me if they are all APBT's...







































johnsontofk said:


> what do you consider a ambully?


The ones on the left side.


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## Sr6 (Mar 8, 2008)

NesOne said:


> AmBully = American Bully (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/a/americanbully.htm). Take a look at the pic in that link, and tell me if you would call that a pitbull...
> 
> The main difference, I think, between an AmBully and an APBT is the weight, and the size/structure of the head. An APBT should not weigh more than approx. 65 lbs. So, when someone says that they have a pit that weighs 95 lbs. it makes me think AmBully right away. Even though there have been counts of APBT's weighing that much back in the day before the AmBully came about.
> 
> So, what you can do is look around at alot of pics and you'll start noticing the differences.


okay so is the ambully not a good thing??? my dog looks nothing like that, her head is much smaller and she is probably going to max out at around 50 lbs maybe 55. and i guess when i was looking at dogs i liked the smaller look, i just wish i could of adopted but around here they are really really strict on pits. They took this ladies away and her dangerous dog license because her muzzle clasp wasn't in "proper working function". I ended up getting mine from a guy who had a litter and due to recent restrictions in his area had to get rid of his.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Sr6 said:


> okay so is the ambully not a good thing???


No, I like some of them. And it's not the dog's fault for anything. A good pet/companion is a good pet/companion regardless of the breed.

The bad thing is, when people call them APBT's when they are not.


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## Sr6 (Mar 8, 2008)

NesOne said:


> Not quite sure what your question is, but if you're asking what did they cross the APBT with to get the AmBully... I think there have been a lot of experimentation with it, because I've seen some that look like they crossed an APBT with an American Bulldog, APBT with English Bulldog, APBT with Mastiff, and then probably crossed them all back with each other. For all I know, they could have not even used an APBT since some American Bulldogs have similar facial features as APBT's.
> 
> Look at these pictures, and you tell me if they are all APBT's...
> 
> ...


i have found that a lot of dogs that look like that have fallen into the wrong hands in surrounding cities around here. Just because of their looks, i dont think they look bad at all they just aren't my type. because they always show it on the news, and my friend is a animal control officer and he gets called out when there is a drug bust and mean dog at the site and usually he always describes them as a big buff ball of meat. So do these not fall under the classifications of a so called pit or what?


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Sr6 said:


> So do these not fall under the classifications of a so called pit or what?


Yes, to the media and animal control. It's easier for them to just say pitbull, than to specify and/or verify what exactly it is.

When my nephews started showing me these types of dogs and calling them pitbulls, I would always think, "no way, they are too big to be a pit" then when I joined this forum, I got some clarity. It's all confusing, and I guess is the reason why the topic is brought up so much.


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## Sr6 (Mar 8, 2008)

well i just wanted to make sure so thank you for clearing all this up i think i still have a pretty clear view what a pit is supposed to look like, and and long as my dog doesn't spring up some extremely wide shoulders and a concrete block head and stays as tall as she is now then i think i am pretty sure i don't have a ambully. but one last question is the full name American bully??


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Yup, American Bully. Shortened people say AmBully. Not to be confused with "bully breeds" because I think that covers everything from pitbulls, bulldogs, staffordshires, bull terriers, etc....


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

I must have missed something....


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

NesOne said:


> No, I like some of them. And it's not the dog's fault for anything. A good pet/companion is a good pet/companion regardless of the breed.
> 
> The bad thing is, when people call them APBT's when they are not.


And just how many of those bit someone or mauled someone and gave us the bad wrap? I guarantee you that these other breeds have contributed to our bad name. How fair is that. This is my main concern about them being called APBT's.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I don't think that really matters. I personally have seen a lab with a large head be reported as a pitbull when it attacked. I don't think that is an issue that has anything to do with this Ambully being called Pitbulls. Amsatffs are called pitbulls too. and Staffie bulls and American bulldogs and Dogos and many other breeds. It is not just an Ambully thing when it comes to dogs getting bad press and being called pitbulls. When the woman in San Fransisco was mauled by those Cane Corsos the first report I saw had them labeled as pitbulls.


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

What I'm saying is that that other breeds being labeled as pits when they are not certainly can't help our image, not just Ambullys per-say. You know what I'm sayin?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I get ya. It is very hard to see what our breed takes fall for when it was a dog that isn't even APBT.


I heard this somewhere :
they fought for us and know we must fight for them.

Us educating as many people as we can is the only chance this breed has.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

ericschevy said:


> And just how many of those bit someone or mauled someone and gave us the bad wrap? I guarantee you that these other breeds have contributed to our bad name. How fair is that. This is my main concern about them being called APBT's.


Exactly. :cheers:


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Right on brotha..:thumbsup:


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Like I always say - if a lot of these "pit bull" owners actually knew what a pit bull is, they would realize that they don't actually have one nor have they never seen one. That goes for the media as well. It's that damn name. People love to say it.


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## Sr6 (Mar 8, 2008)

humm... well these are fun sites i always have people do them because they think they know what a pit bull is, this guy took a bunch of pictures up to the city council when they were trying to ban them and told them to point out the pit, and not one member could do it. He said how can you ban something you can't even classify. try these though pretty nifty.

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthebull/findpitbull_v3.html

http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

Man, that was hard..LOL

Got it first try..


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

buzhunter said:


> Like I always say - if a lot of these "pit bull" owners actually knew what a pit bull is, they would realize that they don't actually have one nor have they never seen one. That goes for the media as well. It's that damn name. People love to say it.


That's a damn good point. They are not what they used to be..


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## Ashelee (Apr 1, 2008)

ok, so I have been reading these posts, and have seen the ambully pics some have posted. But was wondering if the ambullies you are talking about are the same as the American Bulldog (which I believe is ARBA and UKC accepted - please correct me if im wrong) such as dogs like this:
http://www.geocities.com/psidogswebsite/PSIRedMachine22moP040med1.jpg
http://www.arba.org/images/American Bulldog1.gif

Sorry just kind of confused after reading these posts lol.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Ashelee said:


> ok, so I have been reading these posts, and have seen the ambully pics some have posted. But was wondering if the ambullies you are talking about are the same as the American Bulldog (which I believe is ARBA and UKC accepted - please correct me if im wrong) such as dogs like this:
> http://www.geocities.com/psidogswebsite/PSIRedMachine22moP040med1.jpg
> http://www.arba.org/images/American Bulldog1.gif
> 
> Sorry just kind of confused after reading these posts lol.


It is very confusing, but no the American Bully is not the same as the American Bulldog. The way I describe an American Bulldog, is a tall sporty dog with somewhat long legs, and with the snout of an English Bulldog. i.e. smashed in nose, and hanging lips.

The American Bully is kind of the opposite 'most' of the time... it has the body of an English Bulldog, but with the face of a pitbull... x2 or 3, their heads are sometimes super big. Try placing the pics that you posted side by side with some of the ones that I posted on here, and you can get a good comparison.

Everyone, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, what I stated are just my opinions


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## Ashelee (Apr 1, 2008)

ok, that makes much more sense now lol. Thank you for explaining it to me.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

concerning the ab there are more than one type,there is a standard ab,or performance ab which resembles the apbt,just slightly larger..
there is the johnson ab that is really a mix of many,many diffrent breeds and looks like a massive english bulldog with a mastiff type frame..
then there is the hybrid ab,which is a crossing of the two,this i believe to be a very common type and a good looking dog in general,although i prefer the performance type the most...


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## LifesDaPits (May 8, 2008)

*true apbt bloodlines*

staying a little more direct to the topic im actally looking for a APBT puppy myself what are some True APBT bloodlines and wat are some American Bully bloodlines i should stay away from if looking for a true APBT


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

american_pit13 said:


> I don't think that really matters. I personally have seen a lab with a large head be reported as a pitbull when it attacked. I don't think that is an issue that has anything to do with this Ambully being called Pitbulls. Amsatffs are called pitbulls too. and Staffie bulls and American bulldogs and Dogos and many other breeds. It is not just an Ambully thing when it comes to dogs getting bad press and being called pitbulls. When the woman in San Fransisco was mauled by those Cane Corsos the first report I saw had them labeled as pitbulls.


I remember that... They were actully Presa's if recall. This anti-pit hype is so common now that the media is willing to call any dog bite a Pit Bull Attack. Damn shame. I'll admit, I do have one aggressive bitch, but I refuse to believe that she'd attack anyone who wasn't deserving. Seems the only thing we can do is keep pushing the possitive press or turn the other cheek. I do know one thing, the way things are going, the American Pit is gonna be extinct 20 years down the road.


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## Phoenix (May 3, 2008)

yes, That lady was mauled by Presa Canarios owned by some idiots who encouraged aggression in the dogs. Again, owner negligence.Cesar Milan tried to get the dogs for rehabilitation, but the govt. said no and PTS the canary dogs.


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