# can my dog defend himself against large agro dogs.



## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Hi guys, I live in South Africa new to the forum,just need to know. I have a large male and med size female, male around 35kg.I have had 2 before.My prev male was from a really good bloodline, intelligent, obedient, but game, fast, tenacious and very powerful. Where I grew up dogs would often roam the streets, ppls dogs wud get out etc, but as pit bull owners we considered our dogs superior in the sense that if they had to they cud defend themselves. I detest dog fighting, and I hate seeing my dogs fight, its like seeing someone u love fight,but I have always been comfortable that if they had to they cud protect themselves.My first male at times, I was forced to unleash him and give him my attack command, because I cud not prevent the other dog from attacking him, bigger dogs smaller pits, he was always ok till help arrived. Recently tho I have read things that concern me a bit, for example on my walking route now there are two rottweilers, im a bit concerned, they go ape when we walk by, what if they got out? Can my dogs fend them off till help arrives? Do we pick them up and run lol, kidding the rottis will prob catchup and maul us. Seriously tho, do I send my wife to get help while I risk getting mauled by a rotti or is it likely my dogs can defend themselves till help arrives?


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

you hold the leash and give the dog his head..  if he's all bulldog at heart and skill a rottie will be like a warm up exercise... 

You have a fighting bulldog... they love to fight.. get use to it. Here in the states in the 30-50s dogs often ran free and if you had a Pit Bull you expected your dog NOT to cause trouble and damn sure finish any dog that wish to..


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## Beret (May 22, 2013)

Regardless of whether you dogs could or would hold their own, I'd say your best bet would be to switch your walking route.

Ya know, try to minimize your chances of a fight altogether. And bring mace.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Like I said, hate my dogs having to fight, but if they had to I always thought they wud be ok, my prev male looked naturally very skilled, it was almost unfair towards other dogs even though many were bigger, i wud always stop the fight asap, however I read and was told that rottweilers are known to kill pitbulls with relative ease, hence my concern. I have not seen a pitbull and rottweiler go at it.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

I havent thought of that, mace great idea! Thanks


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Man... I got my first bulldog cause of ghetto ass "pitbulls" running loose mobbin every dog that got walked down the road... I come back with somethin sired by tant stuff... AND EVERYONE got their dogs off the street. All it took was once. While Im saying get your dog, get your dog.. and BAM!! Then the dogs screamin to be let go of and the owners acted like they wanted beef then I cracked out a plethora of State, County, and city law...

It worked... I gotta dog that protected my children and themselves from any and all threats.... That is a dog. JMO I dont have bulldogs so I can also carry mace. However I to have suggested mace, and not any.. the sticky adjustable bear mace. 

NO reason you should be afraid for your or your dog... .. JMO .. I dont take alternate routes I tell them fools to control their dogs... Even here in the country when they see me and turk running the 2mile square they pull their dogs in. Hell I ran snooty and a male chow come out to sniff her, she rocked that damn dog so hard and she was half its size. The guy come out and APOLOGIZED!!!! While I got her to drop and controlled her head. Country dogs run loose all over and when they come by, they BOLT.. .. the neighbor has german bred GSDs , them damn dogs come over to intimidate and man..... Fitz on the chain let out one bark, them GSD was gone! Runin lookin for an opening in the fence. One of these days that GSD will run over while Im gone and that'll be all she wrote. Idaho law says if your dog is off lead and off property its your fault for what ever damage ensues. Unless your outside the city limits and your dog gets hit by a car, then its the drivers fault. In the city limits its the dog owners.

why do I have the dogs I do.. Because there aint gonna be no more accidents!!! I mean by other peoples dogs hurting my dogs or my family... The bulldog will be there. Do I urge them to fight.. NOPE.. if its warranted I let it go while I calmly find a good parting device (stick, tootbrush handle, etc).. I had a neighbor who had a tibetan mastiff, that damn dog chases everyone and their dog.. he come over bout once a week to try a go at hooch.. .. he ran into my yard one day and Hooch was on the drag chain... OH SHIT!! Im hollerin at the old man to get his dog and he meanders over there takin his time and IM TRYIN TO SAVE HIS 7K dollar dog! HE thinks my dog needs savin, till he gets there and I unhook the drag chain from hooch and go inside... LOL I know he thought OH SHIT! Now what!!???!!! I came out with parting stick and plucked Hooch right off.. THIS JACK ASS LETS HIS DOG GO AGAIN!!! I go inside again.. bring him a leash, pop the dogs off each other.. Hooch had that dog tip toeing around the property edge after that... damn dog chased down a couple girls walkin their labradoodle... jumped that dog I ran out with hooch and that tibetan mastiff HAULED ASS BACK HOME !! the girls said thank you.. the neighbors were NOW scared of my dog not the tibetan mastiff.. :hammer: Hooch broke the dogs larynx he couldnt even bark right. Thats why.. Rex was 180 and just rough as it gets.. Hooch was 65 at the time... LOL and the people who liked rex were adamant that it was Hooch that was the problem.. :hammer:

SO.. no matter what dog you have, one day or another if you walk them often or have neighbors a stray or loose dog will engage... Dont freak out, just handle your business.


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## Beret (May 22, 2013)

Hey OP, how are your dogs bred?

Just out of curiosity... and before you decide you can rely on them to fend for themselves...

'Cause I know I'd sure hate to assume my dog could handle his own against a Rottie or TM, only to find out the hard way that he can't...


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I hope to God he's walkin a real bulldog  in S. Africa and not one of the plush imitations


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## Beret (May 22, 2013)

Firehazard said:


> I hope to God he's walkin a real bulldog  in S. Africa and not one of the plush imitations


If he has to ask, I think we'd be safe in assuming that he has no business letting his dog go at it with a pair of Rottweilers.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I just expect like most ... fear of the unknown. .. with my statement I was leaning towards: they have a real bulldog along with a tender heart. You want a dog that can protect you but are worried it could get hurt .. now that makes sense. 

Those are a couple of my life examples.. as to what a bulldog can do for your safety.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Never seen a pitbull and a rott dnt want to underestimate them, so how fierce are they really, and can they kill pitbulls or not? Are u guys talking from experience or like me assume?


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Beret said:


> If he has to ask, I think we'd be safe in assuming that he has no business letting his dog go at it with a pair of Rottweilers.


I have no doubt that they will defend my family or fight anything till the end, be it a bear or any other dog. That isn't there q. Some sites and ppl claim something like a rotti is too big and powerful, and will quite comfortably kill a game pitbull. Since u guys rather question my dogs I will post it on a forum that is willing to share insight with other owners.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> I have no doubt that they will defend my family or fight anything till the end, be it a bear or any other dog. That isn't there q. Some sites and ppl claim something like a rotti is too big and powerful, and will quite comfortably kill a game pitbull. Since u guys rather question my dogs I will post it on a forum that is willing to share insight with other owners.


 SO instead of just putting up how your dog is bred , you'll cut and run? Why? Just 'cause you didn't care for a valid comment or two?

Did you want an *answer* , or did you want the answer you wanted to hear?

And it might seem to you a small point , but your dogs is *NOT* a " game pit bull" unless it has proven itself to be so , it may well be a *gamebred* dog , but hey since you either don't know the breeding or are unwilling to state said breeding there is no way of knowing that for certain now is there?

FH , remind me some time to tell you the story of the Dane named Genghis who used to terrorise a neighborhood in San Jose I lived in , keeping in mind my fetish for nose and head dogs ( not earsuckers , real head dogs)....


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

In some African communities they wall hyenas. 
FH, I've met several s. African folks and maintained A few friends. Their laws are not thought out applied or respected like ours. That said he's got to deal with this realistically in his own. 
As to topic. The dog should indicate something to you as to its desire to engage. Historically the dogmen were usually close in their diagnosis when they chained that pup to A spot thinking it could stand at least A few rolls and hopefully A test for game. 
Their were slight variables yet the quest was the same. 
They had A soldier and they knew they could make it A warrior. 
Imho (h-humble) A pit bull soldier if you will is superior to other breeds Warriors. 
As long as it shows the characteristics of desire 
I feel that you would be better served to ask what to look for in your dog first. 
My dog now, she may not go through A game dog yet I honestly feel she would die in hold were I too push the point. Regular dogs? Where's my shovel?


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

william williamson said:


> In some African communities they wall hyenas.
> FH, I've met several s. African folks and maintained A few friends. Their laws are not thought out applied or respected like ours. That said he's got to deal with this realistically in his own.
> As to topic. The dog should indicate something to you as to its desire to engage. Historically the dogmen were usually close in their diagnosis when they chained that pup to A spot thinking it could stand at least A few rolls and hopefully A test for game.
> Their were slight variables yet the quest was the same.
> ...


 Damn , hell just froze over. 'Cause now I gotta say REREAD the above.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Got my blades and ready for the ice! :rofl:

Yes that makes perfect sense. I thought most of the dogs were real bulldog over there just for that reason you mentioned...... Guess slop and street bred dogs can happen anywhere regardless of geographic location. If I was in S. Africa... LOL you better believe I'd want nothing but the best *gamebred* dogs on the larger side of spectrum. Probably wouldnt mess with anything but alligator  JMHO


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

william williamson said:


> In some African communities they wall hyenas.
> FH, I've met several s. African folks and maintained A few friends. Their laws are not thought out applied or respected like ours. That said he's got to deal with this realistically in his own.
> As to topic. The dog should indicate something to you as to its desire to engage. Historically the dogmen were usually close in their diagnosis when they chained that pup to A spot thinking it could stand at least A few rolls and hopefully A test for game.
> Their were slight variables yet the quest was the same.
> ...


They are pit bulls with good pedigree for SA dogs, and like i said they act the part, they wud fight a bear if given the chance, that still isnt the question. Maybe u just dont know hence u cant answer.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Firehazard said:


> Got my blades and ready for the ice! :rofl:
> 
> Yes that makes perfect sense. I thought most of the dogs were real bulldog over there just for that reason you mentioned...... Guess slop and street bred dogs can happen anywhere regardless of geographic location. If I was in S. Africa... LOL you better believe I'd want nothing but the best *gamebred* dogs on the larger side of spectrum. Probably wouldnt mess with anything but alligator  JMHO


Definately backyard breeds can happen anywhere. A friend of mine use to breed really high calibre dogs. I recently went onto some local breeders websites and I am not at all impressed, but thats just me. Is it normally this hard to get answers on this forum?


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> They are pit bulls with good pedigree for SA dogs, and like i said they act the part, they wud fight a bear if given the chance, that still isnt the question. Maybe u just dont know hence u cant answer.


 Ya still didn't put up that pedigree. And how do you know they'd " fight a bear"? Last I heard there were no Bears in S.A..

And now we " can't answer"? How do you figure? Since of course you've failed to provide the information to answer with.

Just put up the damn pedigreee will ya? And if you ask a question in an open forum and only wish to hear what you WANT to hear then you're unreasonable and should be asking those questions to a mirror.

And hey , insofar as it goes you *COULD* just not walk past the damn Rotties that are a problem in the first damn place , now couldn't you.........

Look here , Will and I don't even *LIKE* each other and I'm telling you to go back and REREAD what he stated until you bloody well understand what he said.

Ask for an answer , and then tell us all we don't know what we're talking about............that's rich.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Btw over here we refer to bull dogs as these. Bulldog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Btw u guys must be American? Right? I heard about thus didnt know its this bad. Peace out. Will find me a decent forum


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Read WillWill* Ol'Dog and my posts  your answer is there.... With the information given  

You want a deeper conversation? Different question answered? Re Read your original post and re post what your really trying to say, ask, etc... 

I own a bulldog so I don't have to worry about i.e. other dogs... NOW I have to worry about the other dogs lives when it comes to neighbors for civility up: whole different stressor LOL


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> Btw u guys must be American? Right? I heard about thus didnt know its this bad. Peace out. Will find me a decent forum


 Yup , the wall is thataway>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

We attempted to answer your question with the information provided , thing is you wanted folks to fawn and slobber over you and tell you what you wanted to hear.

And damn straight we're American , this would be a bad place to start with the anti U.S. rhetoric , even more so since you're from S.A..

And you'll have the exact same experience in *any* forum where folks know these dogs.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> Btw over here we refer to bull dogs as these. Bulldog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 Oh my , golly , gee whiz................nobody here knows what a " bulldog" is , golly me.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I second the pepper spray. Worked on a dog that ways chases us off leash. He has never chased us again. It's not an end all solution some aren't bothered bug it's better than a vet bill if you can help it.

This is what I carry
https://store.udap.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3PWH&Category_Code=

https://store.udap.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=6MF&Category_Code=

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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Griffen what part of SA are you in? I have heard the story about rotties taking pits apart too. When I got my pup I had my dad tell me about a guy he knows who lives on a farm in KZN who breeds big headed papered rotties who took out the neighbor's pit bull who jumped the fence. That said this is the same farmer who set his rottie on a burglar and got away with it.

I also know that there are a lot of people along the coast who are actually fighting dog (dispute it being illegal) who are breeding dogs for their gameness rather than anything else. And to be honest I would rather take a puppy from one of those breeders without papers, than one of those "American red nose game dogs" who looks more like a AmBully than a ADBA registered American Pit Bull Terrier.

I am not trying to bash you, but these guys in here know a ton, and are willing to teach if we are willing to learn.

Out of curiosity, how and where is your Pit Bull registered? I looked on KUSA and they only register AmStaffs.

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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

GriffenSA said:


> Hi guys, I live in South Africa new to the forum,just need to know. I have a large male and med size female, male around 35kg.I have had 2 before.My prev male was from a really good bloodline, intelligent, obedient, but game, fast, tenacious and very powerful. Where I grew up dogs would often roam the streets, ppls dogs wud get out etc, but as pit bull owners we considered our dogs superior in the sense that if they had to they cud defend themselves. I detest dog fighting, and I hate seeing my dogs fight, its like seeing someone u love fight,but I have always been comfortable that if they had to they cud protect themselves.My first male at times, I was forced to unleash him and give him my attack command, because I cud not prevent the other dog from attacking him, bigger dogs smaller pits, he was always ok till help arrived. Recently tho I have read things that concern me a bit, for example on my walking route now there are two rottweilers, im a bit concerned, they go ape when we walk by, what if they got out? Can my dogs fend them off till help arrives? Do we pick them up and run lol, kidding the rottis will prob catchup and maul us. Seriously tho, do I send my wife to get help while I risk getting mauled by a rotti or is it likely my dogs can defend themselves till help arrives?


I believe the answer you're actually looking for, that hasn't been said here, is that *WE* (as in, the members of this forum) don't actually know what you'r individual dogs can do, seeing as we've never laid eyes nor hands on your dogs. We could blow smoke all day and you continue to walk the route you walk, and when those Rotties get loose and jump you and your dogs, you walk away empty handed. That's the only reason you were asked to post your dogs' pedigrees, so we could get a "feel" for what you're walking on the other end of the leash. The pedigree won't tell us everything, but will give us a good idea of what potential your dogs possess. No need to get upset and dance around the questions that were asked. My question is, why even put your dogs in that situation to begin with? I mean, unless you really want to know the answer, which would then require you letting your dogs have a go at the Rotties. That's the only way you'll really know the answer. Not trying to be mean, or rude, but there are other forums that you won't even get as much as you have out of by posting this same question, just saying. Some of these dog forums won't even give a new member the time of day. Either way, best of luck in your endeavors and whatever you decide to do.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> Btw u guys must be American? Right? I heard about thus didnt know its this bad. Peace out. Will find me a decent forum


 You know something? The more I reread the above the more it just out and out P***es me off. These dogs came from the Olde Countries originally , but WHO made them what they are?

AMERICANS..........

What's the first word in the breed name i.e. APBT............AMERICAN.

Where did the good dogs in the Balkans , S.A. , south and centraL America , Russia , and quite a few other locales come from originally.

AMERICA.

Who do the guys with Irish Staffs i.e. the Psycho dogs , Dublin Reds etc go to when they wanted an influx of new blood to breed in.

AMERICANS........

But hey , I'm just old and wouldn't know what a " bulldog" is....... of course because I'm an ' American"............


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

GriffenSA said:


> Like I said, hate my dogs having to fight, but if they had to I always thought they wud be ok, my prev male looked naturally very skilled, it was almost unfair towards other dogs even though many were bigger, i wud always stop the fight asap, however I read and was told that rottweilers are known to kill pitbulls with relative ease, hence my concern. I have not seen a pitbull and rottweiler go at it.


sounds like you have an ongoing and reoccurring problem. i used to tell my mother that i HAD to fight other kids on the school yard because i was a victim and only defending myself. never threw the first punch. but i always threw the last one... then one day i started telling the truth. i purposefully put myself in those positions to be attacked.
there is not reason for your dogs to fight that often. if you can assess how "skilled" a dog is, then you have seen it scrap on multiple occasions. and since you "always" stop the fight, how do you know the dog has natural talent unless you let the game play out? and if you are such an expert on natural talent, why can't you assess your new dog?
an owner who does not tolerate dog fighting would not be trying to solve this problem. that owner would be doing everything possible to prevent that problem.


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

GriffenSA said:


> Btw u guys must be American? Right? I heard about thus didnt know its this bad. Peace out. Will find me a decent forum


didn't get the response you were looking for?
i knew something was up with this guys post. he's not looking for advice about keeping his dog safe. he's looking for a way to validate his dog scraping with other dogs in his neighborhood.


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

oh yah, one more thing..

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

GriffenSA said:


> Btw u guys must be American? Right? I heard about thus didnt know its this bad. Peace out. Will find me a decent forum


Decent forum eh.......


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Rotties are bigger dogs ..essentially they're the genetic left over of the bear biter .. as the APBT is the bull biter ... Rotties are basically bulldogs too. They jaw pressure is equivalent to wild dogs of africa 300lbs avg.. There are hard biting APBTs of course but that has alot to do with lines as much as the dog. Some dogs like to bite hard. Some know no better.. Some are light in the mouth.. IF SA is like ya'll describe, then theres no reason not to have the best game dogs out there JMO and should be willing to share pedigree or known history willingly. A one on one with a well bred dog a rottie is not gonna stand a chance, a double dog situation is dangerous for any dog or owner.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

GriffenSA said:


> Btw u guys must be American? Right? I heard about thus didnt know its this bad. Peace out. Will find me a decent forum


I guess your not the typical South African then. As with dogs we to are bred for our heritage and society. 
You should be just A bit more game than you seem to be.
I was kind and considerate to your plight. I identified A cultural obstacle and my method of deriving quality information. Therefore I didn't side neck you. 
I then posed the most plausible question you had not asked, posed the question as A suggestion for you to ask. 
Essentially I offered you A weapon gave you ammo to target your prey and you cut out. 
So, 
I'll ask you, how does your dog react or respond when he sees or senses prey? Another dog, maybe A human displaying adversarial behavior? Does he tense up with his tail flagging (in the game industry dog on point don't wag their tail they flag) are his ears attentive or are they pointed to the cause? Is he antsy/agitated or is he showing fear? Is he trembling with that fear or is the trembling in excitement? 
These are just JUST the things I remembered being not only questioned on I was educated to cease the moment and learn these things. I was told you can't learn the sport until you learn the dog you can't learn the dog without KNOWING the sport. 
That means you've got to know what you want in A dog, know the rules and etiquette of the breeding then choosing the dog schooling him up through keep and training them also and heres the kicker, someone mentioned in another thread, don't let your ego kill A fine animal. Know when to pick up know how to resuscitate because owning this breed these things aren't or shouldn't be taken for granted. 
How can we help you when you aren't educated in these basics? trust me I've only outlined some basics. 
Further breed involvement takes A commitment.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Best thing to come out of south africa was dave Matthews. Hes still from american parents though....

Youd figure supposedly owning an AMERICAN pit bull terrier you wouldnt have such a distaste for us. Is south africa still under british rule or are yall back to rubbing red dirt all over and running around a fire naked?


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Wow I missed the you take your dog off leash and give it an attack command. After you say you don't agree with dog fighting?? At least they have rules you're just looking for trouble. Breed discriminatory Legislation is WORLD WIDE stop using your dogs as a weapon and defend them so you can still have the right to own them. And why own an American Pit Bull Terrier and come to an American forum to ask for opinions and then try and act like people don't know what they are talking about. You do speak English in South America right? Or is it a language barrier??

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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Woah! Just tap pits... Dave Matthews isn't the ONLY good thing from SAfrican shores... Charlese Theron is ours too! Haha

(Oh and btw, the mud comment is a little below the belt.)

Btw Griffen, you just made SAfricans seem ignorant! On an international forum can you rather be an ambassador for our country and this beautiful breed. (Our government is doing enough negative PR for all of us)

I am seriously curious about your dogs preds Griffen

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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

I stand behind everything I said. Dont talk about America and I wont talk about your mud huts and "tribal influence". Ppl havent been covering themselves in mud in America for 300 years. As we speak half your continent is painted red raping virgins to cure aids......


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Lets just cut to the chase here folks , JokeAloha called it right. " Cause there is a whole lot of decent blood in S.A. , stuff went there from Ablizin , there's a buncha Redboy type dogs , a bunch of Jeep stuff , quite a bit of Alligator stuff through Limey Kennels , Garner blood etc.etc. I know for a fact that some of the Ch. Iron King stuff went from russia to S.A.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Olddog so it possible to get a very good dog in SA?

I am quite curious to find out where they are hiding, and where they are registering, and if they have events for weight pull.

Just tap pits... It's shocking that that is the international opinion of my country, please do not at the SA government as an example of all it's people. Please do not think that I am saying that Griffen is right. I live in an area where dogs getting out of their yards happens only occasionally. And the people with expensive well bred dogs keep them in the yard in order for them to serve the purpose for which they were bought and trained.

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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

ames said:


> I second the pepper spray. Worked on a dog that ways chases us off leash. He has never chased us again. It's not an end all solution some aren't bothered bug it's better than a vet bill if you can help it.
> 
> This is what I carry
> https://store.udap.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3PWH&Category_Code=
> ...


Tx I am Definately getting some b 4 my next walk.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

OldDog said:


> Lets just cut to the chase here folks , JokeAloha called it right. " Cause there is a whole lot of decent blood in S.A. , stuff went there from Ablizin , there's a buncha Redboy type dogs , a bunch of Jeep stuff , quite a bit of Alligator stuff through Limey Kennels , Garner blood etc.etc. I know for a fact that some of the Ch. Iron King stuff went from russia to S.A.


YUP!! what I was hintin' at..... :goodpost:


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## sharpieblet (Dec 6, 2012)

i came in for the international tolerance.

..


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

GriffenSA said:


> Tx I am Definitely getting some b 4 my next walk.


bear mace gel spray  has adjustable nozzle .. power of online order and shipping


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## sharpieblet (Dec 6, 2012)

my glock or springfield make for good protection over my pup if it comes to that. regardless of his ability (or possibly lack of) to win a fight, i'm not giving the local media the opportunity to say my dog is vicious if i can help it. the best they'll get is 'local man shoots dog before his pitbull can fight'.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> Griffen what part of SA are you in? I have heard the story about rotties taking pits apart too. When I got my pup I had my dad tell me about a guy he knows who lives on a farm in KZN who breeds big headed papered rotties who took out the neighbor's pit bull who jumped the fence. That said this is the same farmer who set his rottie on a burglar and got away with it.
> 
> I also know that there are a lot of people along the coast who are actually fighting dog (dispute it being illegal) who are breeding dogs for their gameness rather than anything else. And to be honest I would rather take a puppy from one of those breeders without papers, than one of those "American red nose game dogs" who looks more like a AmBully than a ADBA registered American Pit Bull Terrier.
> 
> ...


Hi there, tx for reply,I am in CT.I have owned and lived with pit-bulls for over 10 years so not looking to learn that much, just asked a question, I dont really hang with the local dog guys that much anymore. My dogs are registered with American Dog Preeders association and I wont nor have I ever posted any of my dogs reg papers on a public forum that is silly, the info can easily be used to fraud and reg pups from other litters which happens here often. LOL and to prove what? To some oke in the States that u have a pit-bull?? Funny, they dont even know our bloodlines. Last I heard Kusa dont recognise Pit Bulls as an official std breed, hence u cant reg pitbulls with them

My dogs are mostly carver and rocky if I go on there papers and what the breeders said.There is still alot of fighting going on in the Western Cape and I am sure elsewhere. There are also tons of awesome looking pits who are not registered. My previous male who died recently at the age of 13, was from fighting stock and omg he was a handful, I could definately see the difference compared to dogs breed more for things other than, power and fighting ability.

I get what u saying with the farm incident, but I mean more 1 v 1, and ofcause dogs are different, but I mean a well "gamebred" pitbull and a well bred rotti, is it likely the pitbull can handle his business.

Both my first male and my current one look more what they consider in the states as AmBully`s imo, I will contact a friend of mine who was a registered breeder and ask him he knows alot more about our bloodlines than me, they are longer legged, bit more bulky and muscular and a bit bigger than the shorter legged pits, but those seem to be the ones preffered in SA?

Maybe this forum isnt so bad if there are other cool ppl I will stick around


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

ThaLadyPit said:


> I believe the answer you're actually looking for, that hasn't been said here, is that *WE* (as in, the members of this forum) don't actually know what you'r individual dogs can do, seeing as we've never laid eyes nor hands on your dogs. We could blow smoke all day and you continue to walk the route you walk, and when those Rotties get loose and jump you and your dogs, you walk away empty handed. That's the only reason you were asked to post your dogs' pedigrees, so we could get a "feel" for what you're walking on the other end of the leash. The pedigree won't tell us everything, but will give us a good idea of what potential your dogs possess. No need to get upset and dance around the questions that were asked. My question is, why even put your dogs in that situation to begin with? I mean, unless you really want to know the answer, which would then require you letting your dogs have a go at the Rotties. That's the only way you'll really know the answer. Not trying to be mean, or rude, but there are other forums that you won't even get as much as you have out of by posting this same question, just saying. Some of these dog forums won't even give a new member the time of day. Either way, best of luck in your endeavors and whatever you decide to do.


Tx for ur reply, I get what u saying, wudnt pics then be a better indication? I mean u guys dont know our bloodlines over here, so what wud that help?


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

JoKealoha said:


> sounds like you have an ongoing and reoccurring problem. i used to tell my mother that i HAD to fight other kids on the school yard because i was a victim and only defending myself. never threw the first punch. but i always threw the last one... then one day i started telling the truth. i purposefully put myself in those positions to be attacked.
> there is not reason for your dogs to fight that often. if you can assess how "skilled" a dog is, then you have seen it scrap on multiple occasions. and since you "always" stop the fight, how do you know the dog has natural talent unless you let the game play out? and if you are such an expert on natural talent, why can't you assess your new dog?
> an owner who does not tolerate dog fighting would not be trying to solve this problem. that owner would be doing everything possible to prevent that problem.


Where I grew up, with my first male he use to get into fights, many peoples dogs wud get out onto the street, GSDs, boxers, pitbulls,Boerbulls, pit crosses, dogs u cant tell what breed they are etc. One cannot always control the situation, he ended up killing 5 dogs in his life time,but my bro / cuz walked him those times. 2 where fam pets I got there to late, and yes once helped arrived I stopped the fights and by that time if was clear he was killing the other dog. We also played games, tug games, car pulls etc.If I cudnt prevent another dog attacking him I wud unleash him and let him defend himself. Have u seen a South African boerbull? I doubt u will keep ur dog leashed if one of those things came at u and ur pet.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Haha... Griffen stick around the site, who knows you might like it here.

I agree with you on the bigger body pits that people in SA love. I lived in Durban for a while and OMW the Indians love the overly bred monsters that they have "papers" for.

Personally I prefer the leaner more ADBA looking pits rather than one that could easily be confused to be AmStaffs. (I know there aren't different types of pits, I'm talking body type)

I think if you look at weight pulling as a legal way of sussing out the comparison between a game bred pit and well need rotti I rekon the pit would win hands down. Though seeing a pit up against a boerboel in weight pull would be interesting. Personally I think a boerboel has more power than a rotti.

Where in SA was your dog bred? Out of curiosity do you know if your dogs are part of the online ped listings? I'm curious to see the dogs available in SA.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

JoKealoha said:


> didn't get the response you were looking for?
> i knew something was up with this guys post. he's not looking for advice about keeping his dog safe. he's looking for a way to validate his dog scraping with other dogs in his neighborhood.


So then why wudnt I do it? I dont know how it works over there, but here owners dont get attached to there fighting dogs, u either raise a pet or a dog u going to fight. No in between. do u have a wife or gf?
Or kids. Wud u let them fight ppl for the fun of it? That is fken stupid.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Firehazard said:


> Rotties are bigger dogs ..essentially they're the genetic left over of the bear biter .. as the APBT is the bull biter ... Rotties are basically bulldogs too. They jaw pressure is equivalent to wild dogs of africa 300lbs avg.. There are hard biting APBTs of course but that has alot to do with lines as much as the dog. Some dogs like to bite hard. Some know no better.. Some are light in the mouth.. IF SA is like ya'll describe, then theres no reason not to have the best game dogs out there JMO and should be willing to share pedigree or known history willingly. A one on one with a well bred dog a rottie is not gonna stand a chance, a double dog situation is dangerous for any dog or owner.


I saw that natgeo thing with the Rotti, American Pit Bull and GSD, where the Pit game last in the bite pressure comp.By local stds that Pit looks very small, I am sure my male for example wud bite alot harder than him as he is bigger with a broader head. Not that I am saying bigger and harder biting means the dog will do less damage, when I use to watch dog fights smaller pits often beat bigger ones due to stamina, speed etc. 
I agree with u, I also think a well bred pit bull will handle his business even with a rotti. Tx. 
Dude no offence I dont know u, and this is a public forum, I will post pics of my dog, but I consider there reg papers as personal info, so wont post that. I dont know u, why wud I feel the need to justify my dogs pedigree to someone in the States? If u dont believe me that my dogs are gamebred that is ur choice.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> Haha... Griffen stick around the site, who knows you might like it here.
> 
> I agree with you on the bigger body pits that people in SA love. I lived in Durban for a while and OMW the Indians love the overly bred monsters that they have "papers" for.
> 
> ...


Funny thing with my first males litter some of us that bought dogs kept in touch, both parents ADBA registered with really good pedigree, what was suprsing is some pups where lean and some where more bully looking from the same litter. I think a boerbull could be more powerful, but rottis seems alot more aggressive, I dont know about listings online, I dont even think the ADBA has a dedicated website, since I dont breed I have not really taken that much interest, I have always wanted to get two really well bred dogs from the states though.
Is a "blue" pitbull is considered a Ambully in the States?
I know the history of my dogs so I normally just walk around thinking if it comes to it they will take care of business as per usual  then I was told watch out for them rotties though, they known to kill pits with relative ease, so I thought I wud ask around. I cant really picture it, relative ease nogal!


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey and the other SA owners: After days I got hold of my friend. I really consider the dogs he use to breed some of the best APT in SA. He later also bred Rottweilers.

Firstly he says, he thinks especially the smaller local APT`s if the Rott can finish or damage him substancially in the first 10 mins he can kill him, but its not like a APT fighting a GSD, which is like a warm up. He says after 10 mins the pitbull will kill the Rott they dont have much stamina. However iho and here is where I agree, a Rott will not easily over power the bigger local pitbulls. He thinks my male for example will be fine.

I also asked him about the size of his dogs and my current male (I must post pics) He says locally the more "Carver" the bigger the dog will normally be, so my Max`s dad, was 95% pure carver, hence him and his pups size. He said most of his dogs where carver / spike. There is a breeder who has many of his dogs, wud be nice to find her.

I dont think this will mean anything to International owners.
BLOODLINES | NATIONAL DOG BREEDERS COUNCIL OF SA


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> Hi there, tx for reply,I am in CT.I have owned and lived with pit-bulls for over 10 years so not looking to learn that much, just asked a question, IMy dogs are registered with American Dog Preeders association and I wont nor have I ever posted any of my dogs reg papers on a public forum that is silly, the info can easily be used to fraud and reg pups from other litters which happens here often. LOL and to prove what? To some oke in the States that u have a pit-bull?? Funny, they dont even know our bloodlines.
> My dogs are mostly carver and rocky if I go on there papers and what the breeders said


 Well folks how many red flags can you count in the above?

" Not looking to learn............."

The why did you ask the question?

"had dogs for 10 years"

The you should know the answer to the question.

" If I post a pedigree it can be used for fraud"

Oh REALLY , we didn't ask for your registration , we asked for a pedigree , exactly how is that going to be utilised for fraudulent purposes?

" Prove to some okie from the states"

ROTFLMAO , if you have so little respect for Americans why did you ask Americans? By the way sonny , Bert Tudor was an " Okie" , Carver was from Texas.

" Carver and Rocky"

Which " Rocky" , there have been a slew of 'em , and your dogs may go BACK to 'em , that's about it.

And then " Americans don't know our dogs".......again then why ask us anything. And that's laughable since Americans are still sending dogs over there , your dogs derive from American dogs mostly , the Ablizin dogs and Limey Kennels dogs there derive from American dogs........

But hey what would *I* know , I'm just some " stupid American"......however I'm smart enough to suss out an individual that bought these dogs for the purposes of testosterone accentuation.

Ya shoulda bought Viagra instead , maybe you could have gone to the hospital after " four hours" and then you could brag on it.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> Katey and the other SA owners: After days I got hold of my friend. I really consider the dogs he use to breed some of the best APT in SA. He later also bred Rottweilers.
> 
> Firstly he says, he thinks especially the smaller local APT`s if the Rott can finish or damage him substancially in the first 10 mins he can kill him, but its not like a APT fighting a GSD, which is like a warm up. He says after 10 mins the pitbull will kill the Rott they dont have much stamina. However iho and here is where I agree, a Rott will not easily over power the bigger local pitbulls. He thinks my male for example will be fine.
> 
> ...


 You don't even have anything that still has Carver even on the paper , not even in an 8 , and wouldn't " mean anything to International owners"..... ROTFL at that one....

I ran Patricks dogs and crosses thereof for a long time , and *owned* dogs DIRECTLY off of Gr. Ch Spike , along with Ch Chinaman , along with grandsons and grandaughters thereof , crossed a lot of them with Alligator dogs.

By the way , two of those pictures aren't of gr.Ch. Spike , they're of Snooty. Since you're such an "expert" an all that I'd think you'd have caught that one. And please tell us the name of the " carver" dog in the photo , most here can name the dog , can you?

Bolio was bred by Carver , but to call him a " Carver" dog is a stretch.

But hey I'm just a " stupid Okie American" ..... where do you think the blood behind Bekker's " Rocky" came from?

Where did the foundation dogs in that link that " means nothing to international Owners" come from?

And there is a guy on here who has forgotten more about the Red Boy dogs than you'll ever know , I know more about Carver dogs and their derivatives , right through Garners dogs , Hammonds dogs , Boyles and Patricks dogs than you'll ever know , along with the Tudor dogs. The Alligator dogs are what? WHat two breeders and their blood are folks trying to get two with the Alligator dogs?

But hey you already alienated us " dumb okies" , go do your own research. Your initial question was that of an egocentric newbie who wants to live vicariously through his dogs in the first place.

You didn't come here to talk dogs


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

william williamson said:


> I guess your not the typical South African then. As with dogs we to are bred for our heritage and society.
> You should be just A bit more game than you seem to be.
> I was kind and considerate to your plight. I identified A cultural obstacle and my method of deriving quality information. Therefore I didn't side neck you.
> I then posed the most plausible question you had not asked, posed the question as A suggestion for you to ask.
> ...


Hi I thought I answered, they wud fight a bear if u let them, they are what I consider typical ABT`s, all game and all heart. Like u say if been around these dogs u quickly pick up when they gearing themselves up for action. So no they never show fear, be it from a person or another animal. They go red easily. The female has gotten into some trouble but I was on hand quickly, the male I hope he doesnt, he is 2yrs looks for trouble whenever he senses something cud be on. I always notice a shift after they get into a fight, he is big and powerful, he is a handful as it is now.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

OldDog said:


> Well folks how many red flags can you count in the above?
> 
> " Not looking to learn............."
> 
> ...


We have a saying where I grew up. Ignore manure.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

To the guys replying sensibly I will obviously reply, to the typical forum immature word twisting nonsense Im not going to bother .

Also I apologise if I offended all Americans, I am sure some of u are cool ppl, and not all of u are arrogant inbred assh*les.

I must say this is my first real interaction and geez I can see why I hear so many negative reports. U guys need to read think, when ppl post. I asked a very simple question. And the responses LOL!!!!

There is very little that even addresses my question. Just mostly ramplings of immature nonsense.

To those who read my question and responded Thanks


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

HERES THE THING ABOUT IT,
most of the questions that get asked on here, have been asked before.

some already know the answers, but just want to boost their own ego.

and the ones that dont do the research, i have found, are just to LAZY and want someone else to do the work for them.

either way, those type of people never amount to much with the dogs,

i didnt catch any drivel you might have said about red boy, but i hope you knw what your talkin about, and not spreading hearsay...............

my family has ran red boy since the very early 80's. [the good stuff]

sounds like to me you should've done some more reading before you posted anything
to keep from lookin foolish.

now i dont know what kind of dogs that your talkin about,
but were talkin,

AMERICAN pit bull terriers


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

surfer said:


> HERES THE THING ABOUT IT,
> most of the questions that get asked on here, have been asked before.
> 
> some already know the answers, but just want to boost their own ego.
> ...


Hi there, I was googling and even checking for vids etc for days, didnt find much. And what I did find mostly seemed like anti ABT posts and blogs. So I thought I will post the question here. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

We dont know each other, I know ABT's love fighting, but I wont willingly ever let my dogs fight, imo it makes them more agro and even less trusting of other animals, also there are vet bills, scars etc. Just not worth it imo. Its the same for myself, I will fight someone if I have, and I like fighting I do MMA.

But after finally getting hold of my friend who is reliable and seen both breeds, I got my answer, also he is basing it on fact, not just o its an American Pitbull so surely it can defend itself against anydog.

Are there admins on this forum who can delete this thread? Cause its a waste of space! Ok except for the Mace / Pepper spray advice thanks for that.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

I just also want to point out to those who have knowledge to share, if this forum is not accessible and for the better of the breed, it might as well not exist. If someone cannot come here and ask a simple question then what is the point?

And my question was "can my dog defend himself against large agro dogs"

Answers I expected was never let ur dog fight for just the hell of it, which some of u said, and I agree. But to each his own.


What I expected was, based on our experience, if well bred then yes of cause or careful those rumours are not lies, rottis are tough dont underestimate them, pick up ur dog and run. DONE!

Really all the other nonsense was not required.
But hey maybe thats how u guys handle things here.
I have been on alot of forums, and alot of them were car forums but I have never experienced something like this lol. What a waste of time.

Guys trying to prove there knowledge of the breed etc etc. This forum is honestly useless to me. But keep on keeping on, I hope u treat ur dogs better than newbies to this forum


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

GriffenSA said:


> I just also want to point out to those who have knowledge to share, if this forum is not accessible and for the better of the breed, it might as well not exist. If someone cannot come here and ask a simple question then what is the point?
> 
> And my question was "can my dog defend himself against large agro dogs"
> 
> ...


Don't let the door hit you in the ass........


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Griffen to answer your other question. The American Dog Breeders Association does have a website. They also put out a quarterly newsletter/gazette. You can find it all at www.adbadog.com

I wasn't blown away by that website for NATIONAL DOG BREEDERS COUNCIL OF SOUTH AFRICA. It seems a little too simplified to be a legit council (just saying). They are also not very up to date with news and that sort of thing. I will continue to look for a group of SAfrican who are interested in Pit Bulls (Its 2 words btw). And no Blue does not indicate AmBully. Its just a color. Though that said AmBully tend to be predominantly blue because of the preference of the breeders. Red is also just a color. I am at puppy classes with a woman who was very proud to tell me that her dog (AmBully looking dog) is an American Red. I must have looked puzzled because she felt the need to then say he's an American Red Nose Pit Bull. APBT's according to their breed standard can be any color, and any combination of colors with the exception of merle. (Merle is like the grey on grey of the Australian shepherds).

I would love to get a dog imported from the US... but I would almost rather take that money and a little more and move over there. I worked over there for a while, and it was great. If you are interested in seeing some pretty great dogs take a look at Home - Circle M Kennels or Performanceknls. It would be great to be able to get dogs like that with histories like that in this country.

I'm glad you were able to find your answer about the pit vs rotti thing.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

that dude is messed up, and always gonna be, and i called him a dude, but he sounds like a woman,
i could've swore we were talkin about abpt's, and he's puttin up other letters, that i dont even know what they mean, plus i bet he' young, early twenties or younger.

he probly should have gotten another breed of something thats been 'cut-down'
a mix- breed.

but damn, i wanted him to stay, or her to stay, because, just maybe he might have picked something up.............
but like a little girl, got his feelings hurt and left.

at least JTP has got the balls to stick it out andkeep fighting, but you can see where
his values are changing a little bit at the time.

but my lord, it has happened to every single one of us, if it hasnt happened to you,
it just hasnt happened............ yet....................

i read everyones post, i dont just skip over because i dont wont to hear what an indavidual has to say,

that way i'm getting the full jist of the context of what is being said.

but let me get off topic for a second, 
i think welder and JTP knew i was gonna read a thread they were in yesterday,

they took it to the moon and back, but the bad thing is, when i got thru readung it,
i think i dropped a couple IQ points


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

surfer said:


> that dude is messed up, and always gonna be, and i called him a dude, but he sounds like a woman,
> i could've swore we were talkin about abpt's, and he's puttin up other letters, that i dont even know what they mean, plus i bet he' young, early twenties or younger.
> 
> he probly should have gotten another breed of something thats been 'cut-down'
> ...


 Yeah well , ya probably caught the little trivia trap I laid for him , devious , cynical , curmudgeonly old bast*** that I am.

He had to start running his yap about " Okies" , so I laid one for him about the Oklahoma Kid , mighta been a bit too subtle though. And of course that particular " Okie" , was the most influential man in the breed since John P. Colby hisself , and on the AKC and UKC dogs too , and folks are still chasing the blood of a dog and trying to recreate the dog Heinzl gave him that was the most pivotal stud dog ever in the breed.

Damn I guess I should set a different one and said something like " Maurice Colby" or " John P. Carver"............

Just that little aspect says a lot as to how deep his socalled "research" into these dogs goes.

But hey we'uns wouldn't "understand" a website from S.A. that cites a slew of " American Dogs" that are the base of the S.A. blood.

After all we're just a buncha barefoot "Okies".........


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Well, what's done is done. I don't know if he/she will return, but I do have to say I'm proud that everyone did their best to maintain their composure and truly help, until the insults started to fly. Why do "they" always resort to insults!? (rhetorical question, as I already know the answer folks). I may not know too much about the various bloodlines that back the dogs up in this world, but I'm doing my best to learn that area. I know everybody is different in their approach with regards to life in general, but I love to learn, which is why I've stuck around as long as I have. Very valuable and useful information to be shared here, if you know how to ask the question correctly and take things like a person's delivery methods with a grain of salt. I believe it's the standard rule of thumb on any forum, or in personal discussions (face to face, via phone, etc.) that you take what you can use, and let the rest be. 

Good job everyone for trying to help. That's meant with sincerity.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> I just also want to point out to those who have knowledge to share, if this forum is not accessible and for the better of the breed, it might as well not exist. If someone cannot come here and ask a simple question then what is the point?
> 
> And my question was "can my dog defend himself against large agro dogs"
> 
> ...


 What a copout. We don't deal in what *you* want to hear around here , we aren't here to assuage and accent your personal little ego trip.

And quite frankly since you claim none of us know a thing then as I asked previously why even bother with the question here?

Ya got all high and mighty and P***y , when folks asked how your dogs were bred , pretty common question hereabouts , pretty common question in bulldog circles **anywhere**. And then the anti American rhetoric in a venue FULL of Americans , and as regards a breed developed to it's current by Americans , that you wouldn't even have available if it wasn't FOR those " dirty Okie Americans"................yeah you knew that was gonna go over well.....sure you did.

You looked for a conflict , you got it...now you cut and run.

You claim we're " hard on newbies" , well look at how we've treated your fellow South African , have we been hard on her? You might look to the basic differences between her behavior and approach and YOURS.

You won't though , you rather avoid any degree of culpability whatsoever for your own actions and behavior.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

OldDog said:


> What a copout. We don't deal in what *you* want to hear around here , we aren't here to assuage and accent your personal little ego trip.
> 
> And quite frankly since you claim none of us know a thing then as I asked previously why even bother with the question here?
> 
> ...


Very valid point, in bold, and you're exactly right! I gotta spread the love first.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

ol dog, surfer... !! GREAT POSTs!!! 

Im a barefoot Okie!!! WTF!!! 2/3 native american got plenty of that red dirt in my blood 

NOW.. to the OP who stated original question.. You had everything answered. What ever your trip is, makes me thing your finicky or doin drugs, because your statements hold no water, at all. We answered your question from every possible angle. Best of wishes!! have fun with your doggie!!!!


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Okes huh? Thats fine. Look at your whole continent..... africa is the most backward uncivilized place in the world.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

I was wondering for a second if OP and I were on the same forum... But people from Cape Town is a little like the people I've met from Southern California. I think may it has something to do with too much sun and sea.

But then again, like they say. You can lead a horse to water. You could put that horse in the middle of the lake and still not make it drink.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

i just noticed that katey is from there also, now that makes me think its not the country,
but maybe the indavidual, and just their whole attitude towards the dogs. i've never
seen katey get all at the end of her chain goin crazy actin the fool.

of course maybe i havent caught her right, just messin..........


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## Beret (May 22, 2013)

Dude, if you wanted a dog that could fend off an attack from breed XYZ, that's what you should have purchased. If you did, super-dee-duper! Your breeder would know far better than we would what your dog is capable of.

Is your dog just a pet? Nothing wrong with that. But then keep him safe and don't take the gamble. There are plenty of ways to protect yourself and your dog from roaming Rottweilers that don't involve letting your dog try his luck. Ways I mentioned before....

First, change your route. Avoid the problem altogether. And if you do happen upon trouble despite your best efforts to avoid the situation, be armed--mace, a gun, whatever. 

But you seem pretty bent on drumming up your dog as a worthy adversary to a BEAR... So to me, this looks a lot more like a ego-stroking attempt at a pissing contest than someone genuinely looking for help and advice.

SMFH. This is some of the stupidest ish I've seen in a while.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

i've never thought an apbt should be used as a protection dog, why?

because they love it to much, and they can inflict so much damage so quick,
its not worth the legal ramifacations.

other breeds bite and release or bite and hold, these dogs are ripping stuff off, then 
goin back in and ripping more stuff off.

but i'll tell you this, if i was ever any where, and i'm not a saint, i've been in some tricky situations, and if i hadnt of had 'sinbad' or 'jojo gunn' not sure what would of happened.

sinbad was a 47lb'er and jojo was a 45lb'er and when i had either one of those with me
all the jokin stopped


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

^^^ exactly^^^


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Thats why I ride with one of the boy pretty much 24/7. Local mutts or "bad ass" gets a little too tough I've got my back up in the back seat or on a leash..... sure thats what fh and surfer were beating around the bush about...


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

maybe, but i'm not gonna come right and say it,
it should be understood,


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Hey im just one of those straight forward ppl. I aint got nothing to hide...


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

not hiding anything, when i pullerd up to a red light and had the devil riding shotgun,

it was understood, that if anything happened it wouldnt be pretty, these were two red males that i cropped the ears on, actualy jojo was sinbad's one of sinbads offspring.

both had that 1,000 yard stare, and the town being as small as it was, most knew
who 'sinbad' was anyway. he was a freak...........


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> Griffen to answer your other question. The American Dog Breeders Association does have a website. They also put out a quarterly newsletter/gazette. You can find it all at www.adbadog.com
> 
> I wasn't blown away by that website for NATIONAL DOG BREEDERS COUNCIL OF SOUTH AFRICA. It seems a little too simplified to be a legit council (just saying). They are also not very up to date with news and that sort of thing. I will continue to look for a group of SAfrican who are interested in Pit Bulls (Its 2 words btw). And no Blue does not indicate AmBully. Its just a color. Though that said AmBully tend to be predominantly blue because of the preference of the breeders. Red is also just a color. I am at puppy classes with a woman who was very proud to tell me that her dog (AmBully looking dog) is an American Red. I must have looked puzzled because she felt the need to then say he's an American Red Nose Pit Bull. APBT's according to their breed standard can be any color, and any combination of colors with the exception of merle. (Merle is like the grey on grey of the Australian shepherds).
> 
> ...


Hi Katey, I was playing a bit on here and its actually really cool imo, in future I am going to put my dogs on here, I found some of my friends dogs that he sold , and my dogs father . SA APBT Database have not been able to contact this breeder though, still trying. As for spelling , does it really matter Pit Bull,Pit-Bull, APBT,APT, Pit, u know what I am talking about dont u?. I asked about the AmBully cause it sounded like in SA what we wud consider an APBT they considered a AmBully, the larger type dogs. Hence I say sounds cause Im not sure.I know an APBT can be any colour. As for countries to live in I wud prefer NZ or some of the European countries. Thanks for the links I do see u prefer the smaller leaner dogs, I was going to put some pics up of my dog, but I decided not to, will email u some if u like. I love the red nose colour, never owned one tho.
What are ur opinions on these dogs

SA APBT Database
SA APBT Database

I am genuinely interested in ur opinion, from one dog lover to the next.
Used to hang with some cool ppl that love the breed, im interested in that, and ppl who share knowledge openly for the good and love of the breed, shot for ur reply .


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

So I asked someone else who has breed both dogs and got a straight answer right away. It wasnt even a long conversation. Ask the right ppl get the right answers. Simple as that.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> I was wondering for a second if OP and I were on the same forum... But people from Cape Town is a little like the people I've met from Southern California. I think may it has something to do with too much sun and sea.
> 
> But then again, like they say. You can lead a horse to water. You could put that horse in the middle of the lake and still not make it drink.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


U got jokes nuh, can u point me too these answers that were given? on this thread. CT ppl are super friendly, dont like to be messed with tho


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Best thing to come out of south africa was dave Matthews. Hes still from american parents though....
> 
> Youd figure supposedly owning an AMERICAN pit bull terrier you wouldnt have such a distaste for us. Is south africa still under british rule or are yall back to rubbing red dirt all over and running around a fire naked?


Katey wud u like to answer this ?, u know when will smith got off the plane he expected to see elephants and lions running around hehe


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> I stand behind everything I said. Dont talk about America and I wont talk about your mud huts and "tribal influence". Ppl havent been covering themselves in mud in America for 300 years. As we speak half your continent is painted red raping virgins to cure aids......


LOL!!!!!!!!!! Quick how many rapes and murders in the states every year? not exactly low on crime over there either? And also, invade any defenceless countries lately? . A poor bullied kid shoot up any schools lately???
U wana have a go at my country, I can do the same with urs, lets see who runs out first. I can do this all day.


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

Don't feed the troll


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> Olddog so it possible to get a very good dog in SA?
> 
> I am quite curious to find out where they are hiding, and where they are registering, and if they have events for weight pull.
> 
> ...


Come now Katey, why are u defending urself to this nonsense. I am proudly South African, yes alot bad here but also alot to be proud of.SAME as in the States.They have there problems just like we do. They have some shady history just like we do. I wont take americans bashing my country
You shouldnt either!

Ok maybe NZ ppl I wont have much to say back  or Aussies


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

So blanco is primarily Carver... hank, spike, red fox, stompanato,diamond, uselton stuff too... 

the other is blancos offspring by taken blanco into some of the same carver and uselton blood as himself outted with a good shot of tants..

lets not get into a ethno centric debate... ... no matter how the world has a distaste for USA military actions of at this point, just about every country that calls aid from the USA gets it..... Defenseless?? the USA navy is larger than all the other countries combined  who do you think gets called to aid by all those countries at sea?? Is our government corrupt?? As much as any other government where the people quit keeping them in check.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Firehazard said:


> So blanco is primarily Carver... hank, spike, red fox, stompanato,diamond, uselton stuff too...
> 
> the other is blancos offspring by taken blanco into some of the same carver and uselton blood as himself outted with a good shot of tants..
> 
> lets not get into a ethno centric debate... ... no matter how the world has a distaste for USA military actions of at this point, just about every country that calls aid from the USA gets it..... Defenseless?? the USA navy is larger than all the other countries combined  who do you think gets called to aid by all those countries at sea?? Is our government corrupt?? As much as any other government where the people quit keeping them in check.


u are right, and if we get past all the other crap maybe we can actually talk APBT's, but now regarding his size, his much bigger than the pits u guys seem to be into, so my question is u guys still see them as APBT`s same as we wud in SA?


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

big dogs are big dogs.. there are a few good sized game dog strains in the states.. JockoRedboy, Mayday, Hammonds, mayfield and several other sub strains run 65lbs avg maybe some 75lbers or so. Anything over 75lbs doesnt get taken seriously. We call them big dogs catch weight. Which is anything 60-65 + in lbs. I used to love them catch weight dogs, I am a fan of the smaller dogs these days. I've seen that database not to long ago..  there are some great breeders down there I imagine from time to time ya'll need a good import.

Nice pedigree on them hounds ya got!!!! and looks like ya'll have done good work by em, at least genetically.. Looks like ya'll also found a good bulldog gene inthere to harbor..  Good lookin mellon.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Firehazard said:


> big dogs are big dogs.. there are a few good sized game dog strains in the states.. JockoRedboy, Mayday, Hammonds, mayfield and several other sub strains run 65lbs avg maybe some 75lbers or so. Anything over 75lbs doesnt get taken seriously. We call them big dogs catch weight. Which is anything 60-65 + in lbs. I used to love them catch weight dogs, I am a fan of the smaller dogs these days. I've seen that database not to long ago..  there are some great breeders down there I imagine from time to time ya'll need a good import.
> 
> Nice pedigree on them hounds ya got!!!! and looks like ya'll have done good work by em, at least genetically.. Looks like ya'll also found a good bulldog gene inthere to harbor..  Good lookin mellon.


Blanco is 83 pounds and some, but that is huge. I dont think I have seen an APBT that big in the flesh. Many breeders here seem to prefer the bigger strains stud males I have seen are often 65-78pounds. I must say I prefer the bigger strains as well. I am sure there are still imports happening.

This is my boy, 
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b16/GriffenSA/SAM_0396.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b16/GriffenSA/SAM_0395.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b16/GriffenSA/SAM_0384.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b16/GriffenSA/SAM_0397.jpg

at 6 weeks
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b16/GriffenSA/IMG_1440.jpg

His Dad
SA APBT Database, this dog still owes me a new backyard!


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

GriffenSA said:


> LOL!!!!!!!!!! Quick how many rapes and murders in the states every year? not exactly low on crime over there either? And also, invade any defenceless countries lately? . A poor bullied kid shoot up any schools lately???
> U wana have a go at my country, I can do the same with urs, lets see who runs out first. I can do this all day.


Just keep your 3rd world self in check. Your little country had to have British rule for how long before it was half way civilized? Dont come here and spout anti america bs. Last I checked we dont rape children to cure aids, we dont have naked cannibal generals turned preacher, or enslaved pygmies.... how many African countries are going through civil war using children soldiers? Dont act high and mighty bcuz you're from the "civilized" nation of africa. If it wasnt for the British youd be doing all of the above...


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

@ griffen ... new back yard !! Hahaha! thats funny!!... have to be a stud to go! 

For the most part I understand why ya'll like bigger dogs.. I wouldnt worry much about your dogs entanglement with any dogs bred like that and that size... worse case senerio they're ruff curs which many big dogs of many strains turn out to be, but it takes a minute and a different kinda dog to cur a big powerhouse out.. .. I would say your dog would be fine.... unless its an experienced hunting quality boer and then it might get broken.. Never run away... that will have a rottie run or another dog of prey hot on your heels.. I've ran into rotts loose. I thought I was gonna get ate. I just sat down with my head down and stuck my hand out for em to sniff... owner came out last minute and was like dude your so lucky... didn't see me walkin without Hooch again, I can tell ya that much.  

I like how your dogs are bred, and the size doesnt offend me. I gotta buddy who'd love a big carver bitch ....


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Just keep your 3rd world self in check. Your little country had to have British rule for how long before it was half way civilized? Dont come here and spout anti america bs. Last I checked we dont rape children to cure aids, we dont have naked cannibal generals turned preacher, or enslaved pygmies.... how many African countries are going through civil war using children soldiers? Dont act high and mighty bcuz you're from the "civilized" nation of africa. If it wasnt for the British youd be doing all of the above...


Wherent u guys also under british rule>?  and BTW we are second world 
I live in SA, no kid soldiers here, cannibals? I thought that was purely a US thing . And yes some fools hear rape kids to cure things they live in the bush and its a dam shame, its not acceptable and not the norm. talking about kids fighting wars, I see plenty us kids in the middle east, fighting ur wars.Now let me ask u something, when u guys gona stop bullying ur poor kids? How many schools do they need to shoot up?


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

JTP is a young roll dog, ya'll will go back and forth.. so before it gets to outta context... 
:rofl: 
DRAMA BOMB! 

back to the dogges!!!!


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

When have you ever seen an 8year old us soldier? Out british rule was short lived unlike yours...... and I dont remember america having a "general butt naked" equal..... school bullying goes on everywhere even in your "second world" country(not that most of africa has schools). Im done. Ive amused myself enough at you expense. No matter how you slice it no African country could ever equal America. Thats why our tvs are full of commercials begging for our money to feed Africa's starving children.....


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Firehazard said:


> JTP is a young roll dog, ya'll will go back and forth.. so before it gets to outta context...
> :rofl:
> DRAMA BOMB!
> 
> back to the dogges!!!!


Sorry there fh. Just when it comes to bad mouthing the us I dnt play those games. The men in my family have fought in every conflict since we whooped them red coated powder wig wearing sissys and sent them back to England. Touchs home for me and im sure the vets around here.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Firehazard said:


> @ griffen ... new back yard !! Hahaha! thats funny!!... have to be a stud to go!
> 
> For the most part I understand why ya'll like bigger dogs.. I wouldnt worry much about your dogs entanglement with any dogs bred like that and that size... worse case senerio they're ruff curs which many big dogs of many strains turn out to be, but it takes a minute and a different kinda dog to cur a big powerhouse out.. .. I would say your dog would be fine.... unless its an experienced hunting quality boer and then it might get broken.. Never run away... that will have a rottie run or another dog of prey hot on your heels.. I've ran into rotts loose. I thought I was gonna get ate. I just sat down with my head down and stuck my hand out for em to sniff... owner came out last minute and was like dude your so lucky... didn't see me walkin without Hooch again, I can tell ya that much.
> 
> I like how your dogs are bred, and the size doesnt offend me. I gotta buddy who'd love a big carver bitch ....


Thanks, well tell ur buddy to come down to SA and find one  hehe, I want to get another dog but something really special. So I am looking around. I had the option to own Max`s dad shudnt have let him get away. I have pics of him, tad bulkier looking than my Max, bigger head too.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Sorry there fh. Just when it comes to bad mouthing the us I dnt play those games. The men in my family have fought in every conflict since we whooped them red coated powder wig wearing sissys and sent them back to England. Touchs home for me and im sure the vets around here.


And my family fought just so I can vote dude. This wasnt long ago.
So I could be sitting where I am now typing this, so I can go to beaches I go to and work where I work, and live where I live.

I think we should call a truce? And stick to discussing dogs


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> When have you ever seen an 8year old us soldier? Out british rule was short lived unlike yours...... and I dont remember america having a "general butt naked" equal..... school bullying goes on everywhere even in your "second world" country(not that most of africa has schools). Im done. Ive amused myself enough at you expense. No matter how you slice it no African country could ever equal America. Thats why our tvs are full of commercials begging for our money to feed Africa's starving children.....


I am extended my truce and not replying to this just yet


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

@FH
"@ griffen ... new back yard !! Hahaha! thats funny!!... have to be a stud to go!"

Dont quite understand all that, also while we at it what do u think of my Max, someone has asked me to breed him, but he has a troublesome coat, costs me a fortune in vet bills,also he is very human aggressive. So I said no, opinion?


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

FH: just want to ad I have seen smaller pits defeat the bigger ones in the ring, competitions etc, I am sure most of us have. So not saying its a case of bigger is better but I prefer bigger


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

I already said that I had said my peace.....

I aint gonna argue with sum1 across an ocean about something so trivial. Id just rethink saying negative things about america on a board for AMERICAN pit bull terriers.... im done. Just understand im not gonna sit back amd let someone disrespect my country.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> I already said that I had said my peace.....
> 
> I aint gonna argue with sum1 across an ocean about something so trivial. Id just rethink saying negative things about america on a board for AMERICAN pit bull terriers.... im done. Just understand im not gonna sit back amd let someone disrespect my country.


Cool, I can feel that


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Surfer... I haven't found a reason to get to the end of my chain and shout my mouth off. I have a pretty long fuse... But there are some things that get under my skin and down right P me off.

Griffen, I was not defending myself. I was just saying. I was over seas when Julius Malema became a "spokesperson". I was asked about our politicians and I was in YouTube and watched the Debra Patter interview with him. I have NEVER been so embarrassed of my country in my ENTIRE life. I worked in the US for a couple years and have a lot of really good friends over there. I miss them a lot. But thanks to the net we can keep in touch. When our government does something worthy of defending then by all means I will defend them. But as Margaret Thatcher said so famously "the ANC is a terrorist organization, they are exploiting their own people." And please do remember that although Nelson Mandela is hailed as a hero, he went to prison for blowing up building and being a terrorist. Please show me a successful country who has a president who has a criminal history.

I came back to this country because I love this country, but that doesn't mean that I have to love how the government is raping it. Our Military used to be second only to the Israeli Army. And now we are caught mooning officials (literally) in other African countries we are supposed to be helping. I don't agree with everything the US government does or has done, but I doubt you'll find a single American who agrees with every single thing their government does.

You have really good looking dogs though. Looks a lot like some of the AmStaff on the Gauteng AmStaff Club website. It's sad that he has skin issues, but I think that is a bully issue, Jones isn't even 5 months old yet and he has been to the vet a number of times for his flaky skin. I changed food a bunch of times, and he gets an omega supplement and that seems to help. I wish SA had the same variety of dog food available to us as the US does. I would definitely have Jones on something like ToTW or Arcana.

I think what I like about smaller dogs is that they are easier to share a bed or couch with. Jones is only 18pounds at the moment, and I am praying that he doesn't get much bigger because it's difficult as it is to sleep on an inch of the edge of the bed. LOL! I'm all only 5'5" and although I work out, a big dog more of a handling challenge than I am up for. 

Maybe for you next dog you should import some fresh blood into the country and widen our breeding pool in SA a little more.

Oh and btw, I was VERY surprised to not see Olddog or JTP or Surfer tell you that HA dogs some be euthanize.

Oh and spelling matters to me. It's a pet peeve of mine. If you have a dog that you love have the respect for the breed and call it the right thing. I was tempted to get a new vet book for Jones because the byb I got him from write under breed type Pittbull... *facepalm*

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

My view on human aggression in dogs varies greatly from most. I have 2 moderately ha dogs. But as long as you arent in their yard or house or dont try something slick you're fine. Each dog, genetic history, victims and situations need to be taken into consideration for every dog and attack.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

GriffenSA said:


> my dogs father . SA APBT Database
> 
> What are ur opinions on these dogs
> 
> ...


I am wondering about these dogs. (They are handsome dogs, don't get me wrong) I will not pretend that I know much about breeding and bloodlines. But is it normal to have the same dog or litter mates used like this.

I have been trying to figure out how to read peds, and see what traits have come through from dams and sires. but I am a little stuck and so I am asking to learn from someone who knows more than I do. (Sorry to jack you thread Griffen, but I am super curious to know)

When I was younger and the Maneater Doberman stories where becoming the Maneater Pit Bulls I was told emphatically that a dog that is bred too closely, will have a skull that grows slower than its brain, and that is the reason that pit bulls go crazy, its not because they're bad dogs, it just bad breeding. I don't believe that skull and brain thing, but I have seen a cleft pallet in a horse that came from breeding a Stallion to his filly, then to his filly's filly, and then again to his filly's filly's filly.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Katey said:


> I am wondering about these dogs. (They are handsome dogs, don't get me wrong) I will not pretend that I know much about breeding and bloodlines. But is it normal to have the same dog or litter mates used like this.
> 
> I have been trying to figure out how to read peds, and see what traits have come through from dams and sires. but I am a little stuck and so I am asking to learn from someone who knows more than I do. (Sorry to jack you thread Griffen, but I am super curious to know)
> 
> When I was younger and the Maneater Doberman stories where becoming the Maneater Pit Bulls I was told emphatically that a dog that is bred too closely, will have a skull that grows slower than its brain, and that is the reason that pit bulls go crazy, its not because they're bad dogs, it just bad breeding. I don't believe that skull and brain thing, but I have seen a cleft pallet in a horse that came from breeding a Stallion to his filly, then to his filly's filly, and then again to his filly's filly's filly.


^^^ thats why you'll see father to daughter to uncle from the very first breeding that produced the daughter. Spread the same gentics around with out using the exact same dog as the sire (of course im no expert this is just my layman interpretation and you should pm firehazard. Hes a gentics freak and will break it down to simple math for you)


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

I like that brutus dog.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks JTP

Brutus is a very good looking dog.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

No issues.....


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> Surfer... I haven't found a reason to get to the end of my chain and shout my mouth off. I have a pretty long fuse... But there are some things that get under my skin and down right P me off.
> 
> Griffen, I was not defending myself. I was just saying. I was over seas when Julius Malema became a "spokesperson". I was asked about our politicians and I was in YouTube and watched the Debra Patter interview with him. I have NEVER been so embarrassed of my country in my ENTIRE life. I worked in the US for a couple years and have a lot of really good friends over there. I miss them a lot. But thanks to the net we can keep in touch. When our government does something worthy of defending then by all means I will defend them. But as Margaret Thatcher said so famously "the ANC is a terrorist organization, they are exploiting their own people." And please do remember that although Nelson Mandela is hailed as a hero, he went to prison for blowing up building and being a terrorist. Please show me a successful country who has a president who has a criminal history.
> 
> ...


Katey we kinda called a truce already , Our Gov sucks and its sad cant agree more, in fact I agree with everything u said re that.But as the masses become more educated things shud get better, SA is a strange place right now, u can have the best the world has to offer and then drive 30mins and be in an informal settlement.

Now lets talk dogs 
Yes I agree re the looks looking Amstaff,many of the bigger ones do imo and thanks for the kind words.
His problem started late hey, after 3 years old, I am changing his food to something that a friend recommended, its formulated for bull terriers with troublesome skin, aparently it works wonders, I will forward the details when I get it.

I agree bigger dogs are more of a handful, and not that easy to keep inside the house, drive around with by car and chill out with.My wife complains that she cant snuggle Max lol.Also walking him, he is a big boy when he tries going after something or someone it can be an issue, he catches me out sometimes.
Also smaller pits with there lower centre of gravity dont seem to get injured as quickly, which makes sense to me.

Some fresh blood would be awesome hey, or revive some old blood, my friend says up in jhb on the farms there are normally very well pred dogs with some of the older bloodlines preserved but u need to go look.

Ok can I use this abbreviation is that cool by u APBT?


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> I am wondering about these dogs. (They are handsome dogs, don't get me wrong) I will not pretend that I know much about breeding and bloodlines. But is it normal to have the same dog or litter mates used like this.
> 
> I have been trying to figure out how to read peds, and see what traits have come through from dams and sires. but I am a little stuck and so I am asking to learn from someone who knows more than I do. (Sorry to jack you thread Griffen, but I am super curious to know)
> 
> When I was younger and the Maneater Doberman stories where becoming the Maneater Pit Bulls I was told emphatically that a dog that is bred too closely, will have a skull that grows slower than its brain, and that is the reason that pit bulls go crazy, its not because they're bad dogs, it just bad breeding. I don't believe that skull and brain thing, but I have seen a cleft pallet in a horse that came from breeding a Stallion to his filly, then to his filly's filly, and then again to his filly's filly's filly.


Hijack away!
I picked that up as well
I know a breeder that bred champion bull terriers and he use to do it as well, he said he knew what he was doing. When he explained himself it made sense at the time


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

GriffenSA said:


> Katey we kinda called a truce already , Our Gov sucks and its sad cant agree more, in fact I agree with everything u said re that.But as the masses become more educated things shud get better, SA is a strange place right now, u can have the best the world has to offer and then drive 30mins and be in an informal settlement.
> 
> Now lets talk dogs
> Yes I agree re the looks looking Amstaff,many of the bigger ones do imo and thanks for the kind words.
> ...


Not to pull the "mines bigger" but you think you got big dogs look at mine. I got 1 that weighs about 2x as much as that Brutus dog (according the the 65lbs listed)


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> Thanks JTP
> 
> Brutus is a very good looking dog.


O yes I agree!!!
He looks awesome.
and 30kg is a good size dog imo


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Not to pull the "mines bigger" but you think you got big dogs look at mine. I got 1 that weighs about 2x as much as that Brutus dog (according the the 65lbs listed)


Dude its not like that, I love APBT, I would love to see your dogs 
Where do I see him?


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Run your mouth about " Okies" ,and then brag on stuff that Gr. Ch Hank is a big streak of. That's bloody freaking RICH. 

Do you even have the slightest damn clue who Danny Burton was and what state he was from? 

ROTFLMAO..........and Danny would have picked you up with one hand and thrown you about fifty feet if you had run your mouth the way you have here .

An then of course we get back to that crap that because we are American we wouldn't know squat about your dogs , so tell me clown , what was Grady Cummings Kennel name? Another one that would have told you to shut the hell up. 

Hawley , Jurgen and Bensch wouldn't have had DIDDLY squat if it wasn't for us. 

And now you want to come back all the sudden and want to " talk dogs"? There are a few of us here who go *way* back kid , far enough back to have had a littermate sister to the Bourbon dog. 

You finally figure a few things out yet?


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Flex 90lbs


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Gage 120lbs(closer to 130lbs in the pics but has been slimmed down alot)


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Lady in red 60lbs or so (also has been slimmed down)


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

JTP Flex is an incredible looking dog. I like his ears. I like your set up with his kennel.

Griffen the only hassle I have with getting a dog from JHB is that I would have to either improve my afrikaans, or start from scratch on the training in english... lol

Griffen... also please may you apologise to Olddog about the misunderstand of your use of Okes (pronounces like oaks - referring to guys) as opposed to Okies (Oklahomans). It's not a word to use on an American forum... it holds the same sort of sting calling some one a plaasjapie or bannanaboy, or a churra, maybe not as strong though as calling someone a K.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Flex 90lbs


Awesome looking dog!


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> JTP Flex is an incredible looking dog. I like his ears. I like your set up with his kennel.
> 
> Griffen the only hassle I have with getting a dog from JHB is that I would have to either improve my afrikaans, or start from scratch on the training in english... lol
> 
> Griffen... also please may you apologise to Olddog about the misunderstand of your use of Okes (pronounces like oaks - referring to guys) as opposed to Okies (Oklahomans). It's not a word to use on an American forum... it holds the same sort of sting calling some one a plaasjapie or bannanaboy, or a churra, maybe not as strong though as calling someone a K.


U know I was wondering what he was on about, was just going to ignore his posts, OldDog. Oke mens guy, man etc. It has nothing to do with any thing bad in SA English. Tx Katey.
LOL but that is were I am told the good dogs are at.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for the compliment. Alot of effort went into that kennels system. As you can somewhat see every pannel is staked into the ground. I'd prefer a chain set up but flex requires a kennel (hes da and ha so a kennel cuts down on chances of an accident).

Gage is actually qualified for the apa weight pull nationals and will be competing. Hopefully with the help ive gotten here we can win.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

JTP very nice looking dogs.
What bloodlines are Gage?
What a head!!


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Thanks for the compliment. Alot of effort went into that kennels system. As you can somewhat see every pannel is staked into the ground. I'd prefer a chain set up but flex requires a kennel (hes da and ha so a kennel cuts down on chances of an accident).
> 
> Gage is actually qualified for the apa weight pull nationals and will be competing. Hopefully with the help ive gotten here we can win.


That would be amazing. Gage is huge though, so I can imagine pulling isn't too much of a challenge for him. Good luck with the weight pull.

I have been committing to memory the kennels and chainrigs I see on here. I know that when I get my own place again and Jones is bigger I would like for him to be able to spend time out doors while I am not around, without him having the slightest opportunity to be come one of those dogs on the loose.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> U know I was wondering what he was on about, was just going to ignore his posts, OldDog. Oke mens guy, man etc. It has nothing to do with any thing bad in SA English. Tx Katey.
> LOL but that is were I am told the good dogs are at.


 Yeah ,go back and look at your posts and maybe you'll figure a few things out ....... because you running your yap about" Okies" in a denigratory manner and then dodging as in the above says a lot about *you*.

You want me to go back and *requote* the post for you?

And the basic fact of your doing so and then your dog carrying a big streak of blood from a dog campaigned by one of the best of all time , Danny Burton , who was from ...guesss where.........wait for it...........

Oklahoma.

That's so richly ironic as to have me breaking a rib laughing at you.

Okie is a freaking insult , and in some quarters a deadly insult. Best learn that if you're gonna talk dogs with dogmen.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

GriffenSA said:


> JTP very nice looking dogs.
> What bloodlines are Gage?
> What a head!!


Gage is(and im not 100% he is the newest addition and I dont have his ped in front of me)whopper (via kickass kicker through bob bonacorsis program), camelot, and may have a twist of dagger I cant remember for sure.

Heres flexs pedigree
BullyPedia|The American Bully Online Pedigree Database

Lady in red is bred off of a 100% avant male and a dam off of "little mack" and "tequila" from flexs pedigree.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

OldDog said:


> Yeah ,go back and look at your posts and maybe you'll figure a few things out ....... because you running your yap about" Okies" in a denigratory manner and then dodging as in the above says a lot about *you*.
> 
> You want me to go back and *requote* the post for you?
> 
> ...


Listen, if u expect someone from South Africa to know that Okes or Okies means something bad in the States, then be offended. That is like u saying something that sounds like hotnot and me blowing my top. I had no idea that was an insult over there. But if u cant understand that then cool. Blow ur top I just wont reply to u anymore. Like Katey stated most of South Africans use those 2 words and it means nothing bad.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Gage is(and im not 100% he is the newest addition and I dont have his ped in front of me)whopper (via kickass kicker through bob bonacorsis program), camelot, and may have a twist of dagger I cant remember for sure.
> 
> Heres flexs pedigree
> BullyPedia|The American Bully Online Pedigree Database
> ...


SOME GREAT LOOKING dogs in flexs pedigree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

GriffenSA said:


> SOME GREAT LOOKING dogs in flexs pedigree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thank you. They are the reason flex is the corner stone of my yard and future breeding program.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Thank you. They are the reason flex is the corner stone of my yard and future breeding program.


Makes me consider getting a dog from over there, WOW!!!


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> Listen, if u expect someone from South Africa to know that Okes or Okies means something bad in the States, then be offended. That is like u saying something that sounds like hotnot and me blowing my top. I had no idea that was an insult over there. But if u cant understand that then cool. Blow ur top I just wont reply to u anymore. Like Katey stated most of South Africans use those 2 words and it means nothing bad.


 You're dodging and backing boy , and you're turning more than Hank himself did. Problem is that you don't have half the gameness or ability that he did.

Cut the crap , you *meant* to be insulting , just like you did with your crap about " Ammuuurrrriiiicaaans".

Now I'm going to pound this point home to you if it's the last thing I do , you don't come into a forum where there are individuals present that know about these dogs , ask questions and then start telling folks they don't know a damn thing when you don't like the answers you get and they start asking questions back , questions like " what's the pedigree on your dog" which is of course an ordinary ,innocent and everyday question in these environs , you don't go from there to implicit accusations of intended fraud (" oh if I put up my ped it could be used for fraud") , you DO NOT insult a mans country and entire states.

Ya getting my drift yet?

You came in here and instead of concentrating on what *you* don't know you wished to tell folks who DO know all about what you think that they *DON'T know.

And don't even try to sidestep into the " cultural differences" crap with me , contrast *your* behavior with that of your fellow South African in this thread , do you see me chewing on HER nose?

Old southern saying for you , one that they used in a crappy Swayze movie

" be NICE , then be NICE again , be nice until the time comes to not be nice"

'Nother one..........." God gave you two ears and one mouth , there's one of those you should use twice as much."

Now you want some respect? Then take some damn responsibility for your own actions and behavior so far in this thread , do THAT and folks ( including me) will get past that and talk dogs with you.

YOU set up your own roadblocks to fruitful discourse about these dogs , now it's up to *you* to dismantle those roadblocks , not detour around them.

As per your *original* question , if you're wanting to avoid a hassle with those theoretical rotties , then just AVOID the hassle , just like most responsible dogmen would , if you go looking for trouble it will inevitably find you.

And what's the percentage in putting your dog in a bad situation with a cur breed anyway? That's a lose-lose , if your dog whips one BIG WHOOP , if your dog doesn't whip it then what does that say?

Value your dog? Then keep the dog the hell out of such trouble.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Little Mack is an impressive looking dog.

This was an great read. APBT: Interview With Danny Burton I feel like I know a little bit more than I did before. I will reread it later, because I am feeling a little overwhelmed by all of the information he gave in there. It would be nice though to be able to find pictures of all of the dogs mentioned in this interview.

Interview with Pete Sparks - R. Goodman - I also stumbled upon this.

Google can be so much fun.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Katey said:


> Little Mack is an impressive looking dog.
> 
> This was an great read. APBT: Interview With Danny Burton I feel like I know a little bit more than I did before. I will reread it later, because I am feeling a little overwhelmed by all of the information he gave in there. It would be nice though to be able to find pictures of all of the dogs mentioned in this interview.
> 
> ...


 Keep something in mind about Sparks , sure he knew everybody , but he only set ONE dog down in his entire life. Old Sparks was primarily a chronicler and historian , though the original ' Your Friend and Mine' is a piece of bulldog history and a valuable historical asset nowadays.

You're starting to do your research , now take a look at other names that those two interviews will lead you to.

I suggest you research Earl Tudor , he's the bridge between the old eras and the newer eras , pay close attention to where some of his blood turns up in what are now *AKC* lines of ASts........and the dog I spoke of that people are STILL trying to get to and recreate was Dibo , all these decades down the road. And Tudor is gonna take you to Heinzl , Al Brown , Fitzwater and others.

And get to Ronnie Anderson too , which will have you researching Ch.Tonka and the litter he came from , one of the best litters ever , and of course then Tonka sired another of the best litters ever , that with Indian Moon , Tonka Bear , Dillinger etc in it.

'Bout a hundred others to take a look at too.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Olddog there is just SO much reading. lol

I think I have found the dog look that I love. I'd love to be able to get a dog like one of these today. I some how think though it is unlikely to come from South Africa, with how big Pit Bull owners here like their dogs. A dog around the 35 - 45lb range would be incredible.

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [36386] :: BURTON'S (MAYFIELD'S) PIT GENERAL (2XW)
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [997] :: TUDOR'S BLACK DEMON

I absolutely love the look of this dog. 
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [62413] :: BILLY SUNDAY

How did you learn about dogs? Where did you start?


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

OldDog said:


> You're dodging and backing boy , and you're turning more than Hank himself did. Problem is that you don't have half the gameness or ability that he did.
> 
> Cut the crap , you *meant* to be insulting , just like you did with your crap about " Ammuuurrrriiiicaaans".
> 
> ...


I am actually wondering at this point if u can read.
I did not use this word " Ammuuurrrriiiicaaans". 
U going to pound a point home if its the last thing u do?
And If I dont listen then what?
I am starting to wish I was somewhere closer to u, then u could try to pound ur point home in person.
U sound really tough behind ur keyboard!
I never ever said anyone on ur forum wud use my personal docs for fraud!!!! I meant SA criminals, I actually heard of ppl doing it.
How can u? U live in another country! I meant in general, its a public forum
I didnt even know my dogs sire was online, found it by chance.
I didnt find any of ur questions innocent at all, I have also read some of ur other posts, u sound an arrogant prick!
When did I say ppl dont know what they talking about on this forum?
So I just came onto this forum and insulted ur country???????????
I wud like to see when I did that, and u speak like a dog, "chewing her nose" Its weird!!!
I made a comment directed at 2 or 3 forum users.
The only time I pointed out negative things about ur country is when the same was done re mine. Fair game!

And no I dont want or need ur respect.
If I continued not to see eye to eye with the ppl in this thread I would have happily left.
Yes u know me so u know I am looking for trouble, even though I said I wasnt, ignorant and arrogant, that is what went wrong on this thread.
I dont need or value ur opinion in any way, I dont care how much u know about APBT`s.
Reply if u want I am going to ignore no matter how tempting it may be to reply 

I got my answer from a breeder who bred both dogs, it was a short convo!.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

wow, i woke up to this??????????

fell asleep thinkin we're going to war with SA, then i wake up and we're married????????

katey, as far as HA dogs, we all have different opimions on them,

i tell everyone that all of mine are HA that way before you sneak back here and try to steal one, you'll think long and hard about it.

glad to see everyone gettin along, but you see what it took,

i just saw where you said you wish you were closer??????????
be careful what you wish for..........
because if things didnt get ironed out, i may have went on the hunt............

those big dogs you got, dont mean one single thing to me, if you ask me their 'big pussies'

and you said you know where little dogs whipped bigger dogs, 
how bout showing sa little professionalism over there????????????

we are fair, and go by weight.....
not try to bully a smaller dog, because sometimes that little dog will kill your big dog.

and thats a fact!!!!!!
its hard to put 3hrs worth of stamina in a big one.

i wish you were closer, so i could shut you up,

had a buddy with what he called 'the pit bulls nightmare' weighed about 120lbs an akita

he was fine saying that around a bunch a 30-40lb females, but when i heard it, 

i went and got 'shark' 59lbs of pure bulldog, with in 5 min. he's screamin 
'that dog's a killer, get him off my dog'

shark hit him in the throat, way to much hide so he went to the chest, and it was 'downhill' from there.
once that big dog got bit, by something that was hurting it, his tail dropped and started whining,
just like yours would do.......

but i have the feeling, the next time you step over the wall with a dog under your arms,
will be your first time............


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

surfer said:


> wow, i woke up to this??????????
> 
> fell asleep thinkin we're going to war with SA, then i wake up and we're married????????
> 
> ...


At least I have a truce with some 

Lol wudnt be much of war Im afraid 
We bought some fancy submarines, but then we broke them, not sure how to operate them etc .But hey our President is doing 15 million $ of upgrades to his homes, u guys are most welcome to pop in and take that out for us


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Just in case there are others that dont believe me 
Urban Dictionary: oke

Okies = okes plural form, I dont think I wud have used this form, unless it was a typo. for plural most likely you okes.

Heavy thats its such a bad word over there, are there any other words like this Katey?

Katey it cuda been worse though, if I said something normal by SA stds like.
"Do u believe this oke"


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

I wish I could go to Africa and live like I do in Costa Rica. 
My buddy went on A 9 month surf excursion s. Africa was his first stop. The stories he told. 
As to politics. Worldwide they disgust me hence my living in Costa. 
You live with the locals there and the only thing the complain about is flat tires on our bicycles.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

william williamson said:


> I wish I could go to Africa and live like I do in Costa Rica.
> My buddy went on A 9 month surf excursion s. Africa was his first stop. The stories he told.
> As to politics. Worldwide they disgust me hence my living in Costa.
> You live with the locals there and the only thing the complain about is flat tires on our bicycles.


Cape Town,SA isnt really that bad, if u have money u can still live a first world life, not really be affected by crime, live in an awesome first world home and drive a few fancy German cars, u can enjoy some of the best food in the world, at amazing places. Chill one some awesome beaches. U can own the latest TVs and electronics, wear the latest fashion etc

4 Bedroom 390m2 in Sonstraal Heights | Property Sonstraal Heights | Ref: s698884 
Camps Bay Beach

Western Province the district Cape Town forms part of is what most well travelled ppl regard as one of the most beautiful cities in the world.

Wilderness Tourism | Wilderness Accommodation | Garden Route Tourism - Home one of my favorite areas in SA.

At least after the 2010 soccer World Cup I dont have to explain where SA is when I buy online. It use to be like Africa??
No South Africa, and yes I want u to post me a set of $1000 audiophile audio cables! We have hi-end hi-fi`s here , and electricity , in the bush? NO i Live in a city  hehehe. Im dead serious .

When ordering Jordans, yes I want them Retro 4`s. hey? you guys know who Michael Jordan was hehehehehehehehehehehe. Are u an African American? no im Coloured? What is that? Its like brown mixed  race. Hey so ur Black? NO! Just send my damn Jordans .

Come on Katey surely u can see the humour in that?


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

GriffenSA said:


> Just in case there are others that dont believe me
> Urban Dictionary: oke
> 
> Okies = okes plural form, I dont think I wud have used this form, unless it was a typo. for plural most likely you okes.
> ...


Yeeeaaaahhh... 

I am going to give you a little bit of advice on this one (for free). When I first arrived in the US, I said a lot of things that I thought were perfectly fine. BUT you have to also remember that different countries have different "language rules" (for lack of a better word). What is perfectly find here, is definitely not fine there. I am VERY careful about what I say to people I do not know, because being a white, redheaded, South African, I have been ask a plethera of rude, obnoxious, asinine, questions both here and abroad about my country, my heritage, and my image.

I guess it is hard for most people to believe that a girl who looks like Brave could possibly come from Africa.

So with regards to faux pas about "accidentally" insulting people, perhaps I am not the person to ask.

An example of this in a few instances... I had a lady in Chicago ask me if I lived in a tribe in Africa, or if my parents are missionaries. I was asked in high school here which boat I came in on, because no ways was I South African. I had a lady in New York tell me that she wanted to visit South Africa to see the pyramids. I was asked at London Heathrow (airport) if I was Australian. I had a friend of mine tell me that while I am in Chicago to let him know what Canada is like. :hammer:

I am curring out on that fight... but I do know that there are some fights that are not worth getting into.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Also Griffen... Most of SA is VASTLY different from Cape Town. You guys there are rather sheltered from the rest of the country. so, please bear in mind that you are reinforcing the stereotype that SA is either Cape Town, or wilderness or starving orphans.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

South African women are FINE!!!!!! ok back on point! :rofl:

surfer, :rofl: I know right~ I thought the same thing..... 

Willwill... Im about to that point!


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Katey you tell em, Lady !! Great posts lol!


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Y the way kind sad I missed out on this thread. I got a bone to pick with Okies too SMH


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Rudy4747 said:


> Y the way kind sad I missed out on this thread. I got a bone to pick with Okies too SMH


Rudy your contributions have been missed. lol. And get in line on the okie comment. lol!

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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> I am actually wondering at this point if u can read.
> I did not use this word " Ammuuurrrriiiicaaans".
> U going to pound a point home if its the last thing u do?
> And If I dont listen then what?
> ...


 You say others can't read but then exhibit the comprehension skills of an Irish Setter.

1. You did state " I won't post my registration becuase it could be used for fraud"...

2. You went on about Americans at length , if you're too bleeding dense to get that " Ammmuuuuurrrrricans" is a jibe aimed at a berk that will yap nonsensically about a place he's never been and about people whom he has no experience with the you're.......................dense.

3. You came on here with an arrogant tone , when you didn't get the answers you *wanted* to hear you proceeding to more arrogance , and a basic statement that the assembled members here didn't know s*** from shinola as regards the APBT.

4. Puuuulllllleeeeaaasssssse dispense with the tough guy act , which of course makes you into a thorough hypocrite in light of your rhetoric I respond to on this specific point.

And yes I AM going to pound the point home , the point(s) being that *you* and only *you* are responsible for your actions and how you are perceived , deflections into specious and juvenile " wwwahhh y'all did it first" will serve very little purpose and indeed will only highlight further hypocrisy on your part.

As does your claim of " your questions weren't " innocent" , I mean really where did that come from? Is your paranoid fantasy that somehow " what's the pedigree on your dog?" bears some sort of horrible , hostile overtones?

5. Yes you did insult the country , a specific state , the knowledge of the assembled members , and did so prior to anyone whomsoever " insulting" you.

(See #4 above last paragraph for emphasis)

6. Your claim of " I'm not ignorant" and the associated " I'm not arrogant" are demonstrably false based upon your performance here , along with your continued attempt to avoid the onus for said behaviors.

( See you own words in post I respond to for reference)

7. You are still attempting to snivel and sidestep as regards a specific word that is an I N S U L T in vast regions of the U.S. , to a vast amount of people.

Semantic arguement based upon etymology and language base are a false construct.

You are in a forum inhabited mostly by Americans and Canadians , many of those Americans from the south , you claim to be a student of the dogs , a simple cursory overview of The South and Southern Dogmen would for most individuals would help them to arrive at an extrapolated conclusion that the word in question i.e. " Okie" would be a bad thing to toss about.

Even more so when you obviously failed to ever suss out the fact of the Dogs , Dogmen and history that said state has produced , a fact being that your personal dog would not *exist* without the contribution produced by dogs and dogmen from said state.

8. *I*don't care the proverbial rat's posterior in a cheese factory about how *you* " find me" , you don't feed my dogs or bake my bread.

Is that clear enough for you? Or do you wish it in more pointed terms?

OWN your own behavior. Reread your own words and then think about the fact that there are some here present with 3 and 4 DECADES of experience , some of whom just lurk and have never made even a single post , many more on their second decade , and even more folks with 2 to 10 years of experience , and many of all three have maintained sizable yards.

Couple this with your initial question in which you asked about putting your dog on a cur breed of dog , something which no true dogmen and damn few responsible owners of an APBT regardless of doing would indulge in.

In closing ....AGAIN.................own your own behavior , don't blame it on someone else , OWN it and move on , if you do so then this forum will prove to be a resource to you, if you don't you will be in further conflict with others up the road at some point.

Getting my point yet?


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

surfer said:


> wow, i woke up to this??????????
> 
> fell asleep thinkin we're going to war with SA, then i wake up and we're married????????
> 
> ...


If i were closer it wudnt necessarily be the dogs doing the fighting. You have some crazy logic. I have seen bigger dogs tear smaller dogs apart and the other way round. The size of the dog does Not determine its gameness.


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## GriffenSA (Aug 18, 2013)

Katey said:


> Yeeeaaaahhh...
> 
> I am going to give you a little bit of advice on this one (for free). When I first arrived in the US, I said a lot of things that I thought were perfectly fine. BUT you have to also remember that different countries have different "language rules" (for lack of a better word). What is perfectly find here, is definitely not fine there. I am VERY careful about what I say to people I do not know, because being a white, redheaded, South African, I have been ask a plethera of rude, obnoxious, asinine, questions both here and abroad about my country, my heritage, and my image.
> 
> ...


Lotfl wow, Im easy, i will banter but wont let forum talk upset me. Personally I will rather stay here than live there. Just preference.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Tks for the compliment FH

Surfer I think I am going to use that HA thing. I have use the DA comment though dispute Jones being so little, there was a lady a few weeks ago who thought walking her 2 untrained, unleashed, out of control Labradors, was her driving behind them in her SUV... I picked Jones up and screamed at her to leash her dog. She turned down her music and told me her dogs were friendly. I told her Jones wasn't. (He doesn't actually mind some dogs.) She told me to socialize him more.

I find it funnier now than at the time. lol

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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Look bud simple fact. Two performance bred dogs Rottie APBT. On any given day one could have the other number. If the bulldog was to hold it's own I have no question that a well bred dog would out last the Rottie. But one well placed bit from a performance rottie woul end any dog. It is simple. APBT are superior, but any thing can happen only you know how your dog is bred there for only you know how smart agile and game he is. Once more only you have true insight on how he would fair... All we can do is speculate that is why the more info on your dog the better educated guess we can make.


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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

OldDog said:


> You say others can't read but then exhibit the comprehension skills of an Irish Setter.
> 
> 1. You did state " I won't post my registration becuase it could be used for fraud"...
> 
> ...


Fully agree with this!

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## Katey (Aug 5, 2013)

Rudy4747 said:


> Look bud simple fact. Two performance bred dogs Rottie APBT. On any given day one could have the other number. If the bulldog was to hold it's own I have no question that a well bred dog would out last the Rottie. But one well placed bit from a performance rottie woul end any dog. It is simple. APBT are superior, but any thing can happen only you know how your dog is bred there for only you know how smart agile and game he is. Once more only you have true insight on how he would fair... All we can do is speculate that is why the more info on your dog the better educated guess we can make.


Your contribution earlier was greatly missed. Rofl!

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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

:clap: 

Own it.. and move on~ 

RUDY!!!! I totally agree with your statement as well!!!! Pretty sure I shouldve used the toddler crayons too, as I covered this aspect but it wasn't as clear, I do not believe, over the head and under the feet. .

Katey... your welcome!


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

i still think thats its hard to get a 125lb dog 'in shape' to go 3hrs, 
like you can a smaller one, i'm not saying mind wise, i'm saying body wise,

i think that their body would fail them, from what i know about big ones,
its about power, which is good out the gate, but after 20min, then body falls to the wayside a liitle bit and conditioning plays a big factor,

and my little 45lb 'killer' when yours runs out of gas, it will be 
game over..........................

but for protection, you might have the right kind of dog, and i wouldnt to much about other dogs either, as long as you can break it up quick


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

exaclty... .. .Hey surfer.. need your opinion.. Im a hit you up in the PM


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

GriffenSA said:


> If i were closer it wudnt necessarily be the dogs doing the fighting. You have some crazy logic. I have seen bigger dogs tear smaller dogs apart and the other way round. The size of the dog does Not determine its gameness.


 So now you're gonna write checks with the alligator mouth that your hummingbird a** can't back up.

By now most would have sussed out the fact , that I don't need your lecture as regards *size* , a good portion of the forum is laughing at you right now , you figure out why.

And again you seek to avoid responsibility for your own actions. Along with of course entirely and completely missing the point of what I stated.

Proof positive that you're about your own ego infinitely more than you are about dogs.

" Crazy" logic , define that one , since of course anything truly logical is by definition *not* " crazy".

Do you have anything other than a rather juvenile ad hominem approach that begs for someone to cal the Waaahhhhmbulance for you?

How competent are you medically speaking with these dogs? Prepared to treat the potential trauma if you put your dogs in a bad situation are you?

Given any thought to the legal , social and possible political consequences to your community of allowing your dog to scrap with someone else's dog(s) of another breed?

Things like that are what the groundwork for BSL is laid by.

Incidentally , the above reply to Surfer stands to alienate you from a fount of valid information as regards the RedBoy dogs , among other things.

How many folks do you wish to alienate in your pursuit to show us all how big your apparatus and the attendant pursuit of constantly exhibiting your gluteus maximus?

AGAIN...........you are failing to understand the lose-lose nature of your original post and the query therein.

To wit , and in simple english that *ANY* english speaker should be able to understand.

If your bulldog whips a Rottie , what have you accomplished? Your dog beat a dog of a cur breed ,( meaning a non bulldog)..............big whoop te do.

If your dog loses to a cur breed dog what have you got? And if it QUITS to something such as a Rott , what have you GOT.

And you might give some thought to the legal and social ramifications , with the current sociopolitical attitudes you'll stand a good chance of losing your dog if the Police or A.C. get involved.

Lose-lose. Lose-lose.......................do I need to repeat it again for you?


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

surfer said:


> a 125lb dog 'i.............. go 3hrs,
> lk


 Lets just cut to the chase Surfer , I'd have to see the above before I'd believe it , and I'm gonna hazard a guess that you're of similar opinion.

Handling in that might physically break the handler down if it turned into a scratchfest.


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

Well i must say that i'm proud of yall! Done real good..just read the whole thing and wish i had read it when it began....but o well.
Cuz, these old guys(olddog,surfer and ww) aint selling wolf tickets and the firehazard will make your head spin with the sheeet he types..even jtp has the smarts...dam,I cant believeee i said that....surfer;we was just fn around sunday....so get your iq points back.....
I had the good fortune to train with and against some mercs from sa....other than the isrelis(ms) they were the tuffest sob's in the world...that being said some of the most respectful men i've met...

Enjoyed the thread,and maybe i can tell the story of the rott and my spike going at it.thats the first hand knowledge u r asking about...the dog even went to work with me when I was pipe welding in charlotte,n.c....some dudes from york wood give me a hard time about him eating lunch with me and every brk...so they gotta big bad dog and i had about enuff so i said bring to the house i got a roll [] in the woods behind the house...so friday nite after work damed if they dont show up.....me and my brother stood the box up,kept it laid down for reasons surfer and olddog will understand and they let the biggest dog i had seen out of the truck....so i figured if it got bad for my buddy i's going to have hell gittin him off spike....so my bro has the s+w357 for gp...
I put spike in the box and this dog is all over him quik...spike turned and hell i would have too,but the rott bit him in the nuts.
But the dumass let go. bad move!!!....the switch must have flipped cause spike had the dog by the left shoulder and went to shaking so hard the dog could not get to him and the dudes are yellin git him off so i let it go for a bit then went in with the parter...and my brother pulled him out....well they never f'd with me about my big ol fat ass pit with no tail again,matter of fact they bragged about him......but if ol tom had known that, it's safe to say he wood have beat my ass.thats the first and only time I ever did anything so stupid with the dogs.....so ther's the answr to your question.my buddy was 65 # and the CUR...I MEAN ROTT HAD TO BE 75-80 BUT THATS A GUESS.A lil lighter when he left cause of he shit everywhere....sorry for the run on but just had to put my 20.00 bucks in ther....oldog,surfer check your pm's.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

yes, you know i am, i just cant drag the razor across the throat like ya'll do,
HEARTLESS, 

but i do know this once you start showing favoritism, then your program will start lacking were it really matters. so i have no problem in culling, but i got to give 
them every chance possible, 
used to be, whenever you started snatching on your chain, we were quick to accomidate

it didnt matter how old you were, if you acted like you wanted some, you got some.

nowadays, a little different, even tho you may think your grown, i'm conna let you set there a think about it til your about, 18-24 months old.

but after that its show or go


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

I got it bad. 
I run into A wall with A Hard on, I get A bloody nose.


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

Dammit man....i dont know what the heck u talking about but that must hurt lika bitch................


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

welder said:


> Dammit man....i dont know what the heck u talking about but that must hurt lika bitch................


He's just braggin again.


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

hashbrown said:


> He's just braggin again.


HAHA WELL IT MADE ME HURT JUST READIN IT!!!......GITTIN BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND..THAT DUDE IS IN SOME WAY OUT TIME ZONE....HECK HE'S PROBABLY TALKING TO US TOMOROW NOW :roll:..BUT ANYWHO I HOPE HE COMES BACK....CANT HURT TO HEAR HIM I RECKON...I DIDNT SAY LISTEN..LOL.....BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE HE IS TREMENDOUSLY(MSP) MISLEAD OR JUST POKING A BEAR WITH A STICK.....


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

welder said:


> HAHA WELL IT MADE ME HURT JUST READIN IT!!!......GITTIN BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND..THAT DUDE IS IN SOME WAY OUT TIME ZONE....HECK HE'S PROBABLY TALKING TO US TOMOROW NOW :roll:..BUT ANYWHO I HOPE HE COMES BACK....CANT HURT TO HEAR HIM I RECKON...I DIDNT SAY LISTEN..LOL.....BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE HE IS TREMENDOUSLY(MSP) MISLEAD OR JUST POKING A BEAR WITH A STICK.....


To hell with that, This topic SUCKS


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