# Which no grain dog food?



## LeEsco (Aug 28, 2011)

After getting some really good advice on here I am going to try my babies on a NO grain dog food. My 3 older seem to be fine on Loyall but my blue is having horrible skin issues. After looking into it I was wondering which is best. TOTW? EVO? Orijen? It seems as though many people say good about all 3. Please let me know what your experiences have been as far as what agrees with them the best and your experience on the market foods. Also if you could recommend a good fish oil as well. Thanks


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Depends.. Are you working your dog? Heavily exercised daily? Or more as a house pet?


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## LeEsco (Aug 28, 2011)

oh no, they are house pets but we do have 2 acres that they run....they arent shown or heavy excersize....I called the Orijen line and they recommended their 6 fish line due to it possible being allergy related. They said the dogs are less likely to have reactions from fish then chkn or red meat....


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

In general they are correct though there are always exceptions, fairly rare for a dog to be allergic to fish based ingredients though. Another thing with allergies is the quality of meat produced. For instance a dog i trained last year was supposed to be allergic chicken, they were feeding i believe Nutro from the start.. Switched over to Orijen and allergies went away after about a week.

As puppies i was feeding TOTW with my current dogs and towards the end (was about to switch off it anyway) one of my dogs was developing allergy based symptoms, switched over to Orijen and within a matter of days his ears went from looking chewed up and swollen to clear and normal. All dogs will react differently however its not always cut and dry when it comes to food based problems. Always a number of possibilities to rule out.

Anyway if you are not working your dogs i would recommend trying Acana which is owned by Champion pet foods, same company that produces Orijen. Very high quality however the protein %'s are down to the 34 - 36 area which would be ideal IMO for a dog that your not really working.

Everyone is going to have there opinions on how much protein is too much as well as too little however i have always fed high protein diets to my hounds (have grown up around APBT's and other working breeds) with zero issues as a result..So its all in who you ask.

If your looking for fish though Acana has a formula called Pacifica which is an excellent quality fish based diet you can try. Depending on your area the food is usually around $50 - $55 per 28.7lbs bag. The protein is also very reasonable at 33%. (which i personally consider on the "lower" scale)

The top 10 ingredients on the food is as follows: Salmon meal, russet potato, peas, fresh boneless salmon (source of DHA), fresh
boneless herring, herring meal, pumpkin, fresh boneless flounder, salmon oil
(preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary), ground lobster shell (natural source
of glucosamine)

Also, heres what i meant by quality..This is my view on the matter from not only my own experience over the years but also experience working with pet food providers... This is from another post i made on a thread a while back..

"Another way of looking at is if you are spending $30 on a 40lbs bag lets say, after we take out manufacture and company you bought it's profit, we are left with say $25. (which is a very low profit % considering) Now lets take out another $1 for the cost of materials of bag, print, etc. $24 dollars is whats left.

Now lets divide $24 and 40lbs, that is roughly $0.60 per 1lbs of dog food. That is not a high amount of money going into the quality of ingredients, which reality is far less impressive. When i worked at a local pet store we carried Diamond products, the cost per bag for the store was $18.00 per 40lbs bag of regular Diamond, Diamond naturals was around $22.00, the actual cost of these were around $28 to $34 dollars depending on what you got. Now of that lets say a middle ground of $20, you figure the the company is at very minimal making $2.00 off each bag, every company is in for profit. So we are left with $18 which in return leaves around .45 cents for ingredients per pound of dog food.

Now lets look into a higher quality just for comparison, lets just say $70 dollars for a 29.7lbs bag of Evo. Using the same % for all intensive purposes; $70 - $7 (for both manufacture and company profit, used $5 originally) we are left it $63 which equals $2.12. Now reality is that figure is probably much closer to $1.25 or so but you get the idea.

Some of the highest quality foods are going to be in your range of $1.75 per pound, which if you consider when mass produced the difference between a .50 cent per pound and a $1.20 per pound is HUGE."


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## LeEsco (Aug 28, 2011)

too funny because I went through and read your post before I posted mine. Makes perfect sense. What I have noticed is that alot of people put their dogs espec....the bully and Terrier breeds on Diamond high performance to bulk them up. We had tried Diamond puppy when our pit/boxer was younger and it didnt agree with her because of the amount of protein. It ran right through her. Now this is the getter....we have 4 dogs total....our blue american pit bull terrier (14 weeks), Diva our pit/boxer 1 yr, Tango a BYB Pit we rescued and Roxy another BYB that is pregnant. So we need something that will fit all their needs. The 3 other than the baby do just fine on Loyall and also Blue Buffalo but if the Orijen will be healthier in the long run that Im all for it. Only issue is that I called the 2 places close to us that sell it and they didnt answer so the closet place is 2 hrs away...lol. Go figure


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Dont commit to one that you have to go that far out of your way for , best bet is to find one you can get easily and in your price range so they wont have to switch to other things if something happens. We have always fed orijen and love the results on our dogs we switched some of them to kirkland and I was really let down I think orijen is best hands down.Winter we feed the 6 fish they do better on that during the down months then they do on the red meat I find the red meat variety for some reason they bulk up faster so we use that in summer months where they are worked out more. I havent tried Blue buffalo on my dogs but have heard good reports on it , is it not grain free or why are you wanting to switch off it if it is? 
SOme of the people on here who have dealt with allergies bad have foud great results going raw , I switched my boy over to raw awhile back and I love the results with that as well , great coat and skin and nice weight. Takes a bit to get the hang of it proper amounts and such but isnt nearly as expensive as I thought it would be, maybe thats something to look into . ??


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## LeEsco (Aug 28, 2011)

No the BB that we had been giving them is NOT grain free. I am wanting one that will work for all their needs. With 6 kids, on the PTA, SIC school for 2 school boards, a disabled husband with traumatic brain injury due to IED accident in Iraq and going to school online fulltime I am thinking that the raw diet might be a little much. If it needed to be done of course I would. I just wanted something a little easier. I will look at the raw and see what and how to do it. I just worry a little about not getting them all their needs. Is raw ok for a pregnant mama? What supplements do you use? Any extra like fish oil etc???? Do you have a link for a good lay out you recommend? Thanks so much for everything I truly appreciate it


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

this is the link for what we do raw , like I said it does take a bit more effort at first till you figure it out and with everything on your plate the kibble might be best. How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw . With our girls when they had pups we had them on puppy kibble up until about a week before they had the pups then again after they had the pups. We add fish oil pills we actually use omega 3 and they get that daily and occassionally a spoon of brobiotics/ yogurt { whatever i happen to have } , however with the prgnant one watch the calcium you dont really want to give anything with added calcium like yogurt, ice cream or calcium pills or bones too much wait till after the pups have come { it also helps during labor we used vanilla ice creamduring labor and then tums for the next week after 1x a day , but alot of that is in the links performance kennel gave you in the other thread you made about the pregnant dog } Did you callthose places closer to you yesterday? I dont know about there but alot of the smaller stores are closed sundays here maybe they will be able to help you out with the orijen during the week here.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

this link might be of some help as well , shows how to pick a good food incase the orijen isnt going to work out , shows you how to grade it and make sure your picking a quality one. http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/3749-pet-food-rating-comparison-chart.html


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Well i am not for or against raw however my problem with raw is i've never met a person to feed raw for any long period of time.. From puppy to senior, most use quite a few supplements or feed partial kibble and partial raw.. At least from what i have seen, if anyone knows someone that has fed raw for years i'd love to talk to them. I would be feeding raw if i saw proven results...I just haven't.

As for the point system in angelbaby's link, i'm against the point system for many reasons. My biggest problem is adding a bunch of points together doesn't make sense... Someone had to sit there and think of how many points to give for each fraction, how did they decide what was worth what? Another reason i am against it is it doesn't take in consideration the other variables associated with deciding on a "good" feed. One of which i've already covered, quality of product/mark up/etc.

Its flawed if you also go through some pet food store feeds such as Nutro, scores quite a bit higher than it should...Scores higher than some better feeds out there. There not the only one just as an example.

IMO use common sense.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

BB does have a grain-free variety now. They're the series with the wolves on them. BLUE Buffalo Wilderness - Natural Evolutionary Healthy Weight Diet for Dogs ? Grain Free

However, their ingredients are mostly chicken or turkey meal, which isn't as high quality of ingredients.

If you're concerned about protein levels, OP, Taste of the Wild is a good grain-free food to feed. Their highest protein level is 32%. It uses alternate protein sources like lamb, fish, duck, buffalo, etc and is pretty cheap as grain-free foods go. It costs me ~$47 for a 30lb bag, although that will vary depending on where you live.

Kane had bad allergies on Blue Buffalo (probs because it wasn't grain-free which I didn't realize at the time), and I switched him to Taste of the Wild and they disappeared. Here are the ingredients for the Sierra Mountain Canine formula:

Ingredients
Lamb, lamb meal, sweet potatoes, potatoes, peas, canola oil, pea protein, roasted lamb, tomato pomace, natural flavor, salt, choline chloride, mixed tocopherols (a natural preservative and source of vitamin E), dried chicory root, taurine, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

I usually switch him between that and the Wetlands Canine which is duck-based. He was on Orijen, which is higher quality, but I didn't notice enough of a difference to make it worth it to spend $80 bucks on a bag. Also, because of the higher calories involved, you have to make sure you WORK your dog, otherwise they'll put too much weight on. He didn't have an issue with it because I tried it during the winter, but I would've had to cut back a lot during the summer.


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## NateDieselF4i (Sep 14, 2010)

Well lots of good advice as far as good goes in here.

I'll add this for the Fish oil. I give Kane a couple pumps of Grizzley salmon oil into his bowls.










He loves it and its cheap. - I wouldn't bother buying anything smaller than the 32oz bottle. I put 2 squirts in each his breakfast and dinner.


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## LeEsco (Aug 28, 2011)

Yes...I read about the vanilla ice cream..planned on using that, thanks.


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## LeEsco (Aug 28, 2011)

thank you guys all so much. We found a store here that sells Acana so we decided to go with that. Hubby is on his way now to buy it. We decided since they arent worked so much that the extra protein would be too much. Lets see how this works and will keep you posted...


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

LeEsco said:


> thank you guys all so much. We found a store here that sells Acana so we decided to go with that. Hubby is on his way now to buy it. We decided since they arent worked so much that the extra protein would be too much. Lets see how this works and will keep you posted...


Sounds good! Keep us posted and feel free to ask more questions, can only obtain knowledge by asking so don't feel like you'd ever be asking a stupid question.

I'm sure the food will work out well for you! All dogs are different so time will tell of course but i have a feeling both you and your dog will enjoy it


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

I know you already chose, but another brand of grain-free that I feed myself is Nature's Variety Instinct. Really good stuff. I love how my dog looks on the salmon.


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## LeEsco (Aug 28, 2011)

thank you. The Acana is hard to find but I really wanted to try it because of the rating and people backing it. I want them to be happy and healthy and I cant see itching and biting all the time being fun...


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