# advice, i'm not sure on wanting to breed.



## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

i was talking with my hubbie last nite, and i would really like to get at 1 liter off of kolby, then get him snipped. 
1) can you do that once the dog has matured?
2)how will that effect him?
3)i've heard if you dont get a male dog cut as a pup , you should let them get that first liter out and then snip them , it will also help with them being alot calmer. is there any truth in that? i would think calming down would just come with age, but i'm not sure. or is this something i would need to speak with my vet about. i know alot of you on here breed, and i was just wondering what were yalls thoughts on it.


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## pitbulllover27870 (Jul 6, 2008)

i'm not going to really get into the breeding part, but as far as neutering i've always heard to do it before they hit maturity.. and ive also heard that if you breed then neuter it will cause the dog alot of sexual frustration.


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

What would be the purpose of breeding him?
Is he a good example of the standard? CH lines? Does he excell at some sport (WP, Hog Hunting, SOMETHING). What would be your goals with the breeding? Do you/would you have homes lined up for the pups? Quality female to cross with?

Not disuading you from breeding, your dog you can do what you want, just some questions to ask yourself and the other dogs owner.

As for Neutering you can really neuter at any age. I've seen retired show dogs get neutered at 5-6 years sometimes older. It CAN help calm them down, less hormones raging through him. Can make him a little fat so you'll have to keep on excersize. And...thats about it.



FYI-be prepared for a lot of not to nice responses on this topic.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Yeah good questions BBB what are your reasons for wanting to breed your boy? Have you had any ofa testing done on him and the dam? And are they both registered? Let us know  No reason not be nice to the OP they are sincere & asking for advice at LEAST she is asking for advice before she breeds which IMO is a good thing there are some breeder's on here I don't know anything about it other than what I have learned through other's so maybe they will be able to guide you better


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

chic4pits said:


> 1) can you do that once the dog has matured?


yes, you can neuter at whatever age. After 4 months of age of course.



chic4pits said:


> 2)how will that effect him?


It will make him a bit lathargic at first, but then he'll be normal.



chic4pits said:


> 3)i've heard if you dont get a male dog cut as a pup , you should let them get that first liter out and then snip them , it will also help with them being alot calmer. is there any truth in that?


I don't think it's necessary to let him get a 'release', lol, and then snip. The calmness after the neutering would be the same with or without him losing his virginity.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

I nueter everything at 4 to 5 mos. helps to eliminate the probs of testosterone. Im a rescue guy and its hard for me to except breeding. If you have a breeding program w/ champion show dogs or pulldogs and want to strenthen your bloodline its totally cool. but to breed house dogs or pets I cant tolerate. in the shelter ive seen as many dogs euthanized as adopted and that is not what you want to be apart of.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

If you neuter before maturity you will avoid some behaviors like humping and scent marking.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

kewl, thanks guys, i have alot of questions on this that's why i want everyone opinion, if i would breed him i would do my research to find a rept. kennel , that is true to the breed.the female has to have her clean bill of health from the vet, etc. to both protect my dog, their dog and the pups. see, (my thinking) and plz correct me if i'm looking at it wrong. ..i think IF paried with the rite female that his pups would be an assesst to the breed b/c he is so well tempered and loooves to pull things, that's why i was asking a few days ago about the whole pulling the kid in the wagon thing. unfourt. is nothing in my area for owners of this breed to enter into classes and competitions, b/c i soo would..i'd be first in line. so i have no awards or anything to say that he is top dog in whateva. now keep in mind he is only 7 1/2 mths. old, so maybe i'm trying to think about this too soon, i just like to look at long term things...so when the time comes it's not a fly by nite dicision. i want to make sure i make the RIGHT decision i in no way shape or form want to hurt this breed more than it has been already. just trying to make a formed decision ..his breeding tho, would be a one time thing..not something i would like to keep doing. 
(i know i'll prb. get alot of slack for this comment: but he would sire pretty pups..BUT..that would NOT be my reason for breeding)- i'm just a sucker for a pup.how can you not be?!


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

Sampsons Dad said:


> If you neuter before maturity you will avoid some behaviors like humping and scent marking.


thankfuly he hasn't started all that fun stuff yet, but my daughter did come running into the room the other day screaming 'mama ..mama! kolby has something pink sticking outta his tummy!!' 
i didn't even know where to start with that one. b/c she just turned 7 two days ago.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

chic4pits said:


> thankfuly he hasn't started all that fun stuff yet, but my daughter did come running into the room the other day screaming 'mama ..mama! kolby has something pink sticking outta his tummy!!'
> i didn't even know where to start with that one. b/c she just turned 7 two days ago.


HEHEHEHEHEEHEHE ... oh yeah I have been through that talk LMAO :cheers:


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

You should study the breed standard carefully. Does your dog come from a reputable breeder? Where is he registered? Is he a pet quality or show on his registration? You won't see his full potential until he is older but if he is straight in the rear and/or is undershot or over shot...don't breed him. Also are you going to keep a pup from the breeding? If not and you don't plan on showing and putting him into a sport it really is more work that its worth. Not to mention that a visit to any urban animal shelter will show you how over bred pits are.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

It is my humble opinion that just because the dog can perform does not justify its breeding. After all the jobs asked of it now are not it original purpose. Because of this the dog should be bred to the standard set by the ADBA way back when dogs were still fought.

http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fpid=32

The picture in the PDF or the ADBA Standard is my favorite standard to go by.

UKC Standard
http://www.arba.org/AmericanPitBull1BS.htm


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Okay, if he were my dog, I would neuter after maturity. Here are two studies on early neutering.

When to neuter
Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete

As far as wanting a litter off him to make him calmer, that's total myth. Male dogs who get bred would probably be more likely to go nuts for females in heat. Even after they get neutered, they can still have the drive to mate. I've seen neutered male dogs tie with females in heat. (BTW, they can still have stored sperm for up to 30 days after being neutered, so be careful.)

If you want to breed him, there are many parts to that equation. Registration with a reputable registry, some kind of show title, some kind of working title, passing genetic health tests to make sure he's not likely to propagate hip dysplasia or other defects. Same requirements for the female he's bred to. You'd have to pre-screen enough homes to make it worthwhile, and pet-quality puppies should be placed on neuter contracts. There's a lot involved in doing a reponsible breeding. Most people aren't up to the challenge, especially because it takes years and sometimes thousands of dollars to get that far. If you cut out portions, you get to wear the mantle of BYB (backyard breeder).

Here are some more links on breeding, and how to do it right/wrong.

Breeding diagram
Lawrence County Humane Society Abuse and Adoption Center
Pit Bull Blog APBT Breeders - Reputable vs. BYB
And one for fun: BYB and Puppymillers' Big Book of Old excuses (Opens as a word document.)


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

again it is your dog and your gonna do what you are gonna do but I would advise against it...you say you wanna get one litter off of him, why because you want 1 puppy?? You do know there will be many more then 1, and where will you home them in this already vastley overpopulated country. Not to mention these dogs are not the easiest to have in certain homes and apartments due to rules and regulations, and new BSL laws are popping up everyday. Do you really want to bring 5-9 or possibly more puppies into the world when there are already millions being put to sleep each year??


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

United Kennel Club: American Pit Bull Terrier (Revised November 1, 2008)

Here's the link to the most recent version of the UKC standard.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

Sampsons Dad said:


> You should study the breed standard carefully. Does your dog come from a reputable breeder? Where is he registered? Is he a pet quality or show on his registration? You won't see his full potential until he is older but if he is straight in the rear and/or is undershot or over shot...don't breed him. Also are you going to keep a pup from the breeding? If not and you don't plan on showing and putting him into a sport it really is more work that its worth. Not to mention that a visit to any urban animal shelter will show you how over bred pits are.


the breeder, the guy i got him from has owned pits all his life, so has his father..fathers ..fathers etc. we know the family and they have always used thier dogs for running hogs. and it's the only breed they have ever owned, they are known in my fathers hunting club for having good quality dogs, that will sniff out a hog faster than a bee to honey. the only reason i have kolby is b/c his female got breed before she was fixed. (she is now fixed) so he was an 'oops liter' ,but the man only sold the pups from kolbys liter to others that were in the hunting club. so not just anyone got one of the pups. . he is regs. thru UKC ..and personally i think he would be show quality..he is without a doubt VERY good pet quality, and that's one of my main reasons for wanting to see about getting him cert. as a therapy dog. b/c i think it would do wonders for the breed. ...to help the public see this breed as the lap dogs we know they are. best way to over come fear of anything is to educate yourself and others. you dont really fear what you know, it's the things we dont understand that we often fear. 
now, what is undershot and overshot etc? I think he has a wonderful stance..very lean , muscualr, med. size as far as height, ..his back end is a lil' lower than his front but it goes into a very smooth curve. he looks really areodinamic (sp?) i guess would be the best way to describe it. idk.(nothing agaist bullies, but my personal perferance on this breed is lean and well fit -howeva i do like a big ol' head that the bullies have..just more to pat!*smiles*)-i would like to try to get updated pics on here for everyone to see. it's just hard b/c i am at work when i'm on here.
oh, and yes, i would ask for the first pic of the liter. but that is a reason i would go with a breeder who places their pups and not just sits on the side of the road or your local wal-mart parking lot to see the pups. 
i would like to thank everyone on your input..it's apperciated.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Chic, just to let you know, a decent breeder isn't going to breed to your boy until he's titled and health-tested. That really limits your options as far as who you'll be able to stud him to.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Google Image Result for http://www.wirefoxterrierassociation.co.uk/conformation/undershot.jpg


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## pitbulllover27870 (Jul 6, 2008)

Sampsons Dad said:


> Google Image Result for http://www.wirefoxterrierassociation.co.uk/conformation/undershot.jpg


heres another good diagram

American Pit Bull Terrier Network Teeth


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

So a quick break down of what is expected of a Show quality breeding pair.

Correct bite
Proper angulation
Champion title of conformation...to show the dog is a good example of the breed
Hip/elbow/Cardiac Score or evaluation from Vet
Thyroid testing

Not for average Joe.

Now if you just want to make babies...you can throw him in with any female and hope for the best.

By the way pet quality means not breed worthy.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

pitbulllover27870 said:


> heres another good diagram
> 
> American Pit Bull Terrier Network Teeth


Good stuff


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

Sydney said:


> again it is your dog and your gonna do what you are gonna do but I would advise against it...you say you wanna get one litter off of him, why because you want 1 puppy?? You do know there will be many more then 1, and where will you home them in this already vastley overpopulated country. Not to mention these dogs are not the easiest to have in certain homes and apartments due to rules and regulations, and new BSL laws are popping up everyday. Do you really want to bring 5-9 or possibly more puppies into the world when there are already millions being put to sleep each year??


about the 1 liter..yea, i want a pup from him, but that wouldn't be the reason, yea, i think his pups would be an asset to the breed, and some is in part b/c i heard if you dont snip them before they mature it's best to let them sire one liter then snip them..but were clearing all that up..
thanks everyone for the advice.
and i agree 100% with you, not just anyone should own these dogs, just like underwear, it's not a one size fits all ..but where i'm from they do have alot of people who use these dogs for hunting.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

bahamutt99 said:


> Chic, just to let you know, a decent breeder isn't going to breed to your boy until he's titled and health-tested. That really limits your options as far as who you'll be able to stud him to.


what do you mean titled? he is reg. thru UKC and is 100 % heatlhy, all shots and goes to the vet every month for his updated dose of heartworm (sennial)-think i spelt that rite. so he is healthy and i have all the papers to prove he is.


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## pitbulllover27870 (Jul 6, 2008)

titled as in like ch or gr ch or wpch


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

Sampsons Dad said:


> Google Image Result for http://www.wirefoxterrierassociation.co.uk/conformation/undershot.jpg


thank you for the page! his teeth look correct, just like in the pic, the vet has never said anything about him as far as not being up to standard..b/c that was a question she asked me , was if i was going to be breeding or if he was just for a pet. i try to ask her everything i can , but you know how it goes, you get there , chase 4 kids around a vets office and ask some things and forget the rest. that's why i'm glad i found you guys! i know yall will give me info i can use.


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## pitbulllover27870 (Jul 6, 2008)

chic4pits said:


> . that's why i'm glad i found you guys! i know yall will give me info i can use.


yea... were 2 scoops of kick ass!!lmao:thumbsup:


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

i like this site on breed assoc. lots of info on it...i really am trying to find out all i can about this breed yall. that's why i ask so many questions..


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

pitbulllover27870 said:


> yea... were 2 scoops of kick ass!!lmao:thumbsup:[/QUOT
> *rolls laughing*
> that yall are!


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

pitbulllover27870 said:


> titled as in like ch or gr ch or wpch


oic...but how do i do that if there are not things for him to be entered into to get thos titles?
do some of thos things come from parents? like if they were champ. bl and stuff?


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## pitbulllover27870 (Jul 6, 2008)

chic4pits said:


> oic...but how do i do that if there are not things for him to be entered into to get thos titles?


you gotta travel... plain and simple lol... heres one in your town

conformation
http://www.ukcdogs.com/Upcoming.nsf/EventView?Open&Group=DogEvents&Type=S&State=Louisiana


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

pitbulllover27870 said:


> you gotta travel... plain and simple lol... heres one in your town
> 
> conformation
> United Kennel Club: Upcoming Events


kick ass! thank you millions!!
now, i have another ? ..i was lookin on the link given earlier on the ukc site of breed standars..they say blue eyes are not accepted..why is that? kolby has browish green eyes..
but dont some blues have blue eyes as well?


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

You can register with NAKC, ARBA, UKC...etc.
You send a copy of your dogs papers and fill out the information for the club
and enter the shows.

It is not very expensive to show but it is expensive in that you wil have to travel a bit and probably go to a few handling classes.

If you are just going to bred bang up Hog dogs then ask your breeder to school you. 1 mentor is worth 20 years of experience.
I spent many bucks traveling for hunts and shows.
-----------------------------------------

Do you have good hunting spots?
Can I come and get some of my pot lickers working?
I will show you a few handling tricks and bring you some Goodies....please please


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

hey your more than welcome to come hunting in our club..it's one of the biggest here in central la. and i am ALWAYS looking to learn anything i can both about handling and the breed in general.


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

I am just curious...does your dogs toungue have purple spots or is that just the way it looks in the picture???


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

chic4pits said:


> hey your more than welcome to come hunting in our club..it's one of the biggest here in central la. and i am ALWAYS looking to learn anything i can both about handling and the breed in general.


[email protected]
you gotta hook me up!

lol...
time to get my money right!


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

i will do that, i'll get the info from my dad this weekend and msg ya monday wif it.b/c they only let memebers hunt on the grounds i think tho that you can bring guest, i'm just not sure if there are fees or what eva..but i will let ya know!


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

chic4pits said:


> i was talking with my hubbie last nite, and i would really like to get at 1 liter off of kolby, then get him snipped.
> 1) can you do that once the dog has matured?
> 2)how will that effect him?
> 3)i've heard if you dont get a male dog cut as a pup , you should let them get that first liter out and then snip them , it will also help with them being alot calmer. is there any truth in that? i would think calming down would just come with age, but i'm not sure. or is this something i would need to speak with my vet about. i know alot of you on here breed, and i was just wondering what were yalls thoughts on it.


wouldnt advocate breeding in million years without a damn good reason,not in the midst of the overpoulation crisis and everything else thats facing this breed.JMO!!!!!!!!!!


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

Sydney said:


> I am just curious...does your dogs toungue have purple spots or is that just the way it looks in the picture???


na, that's just the way the shadowing is on the pic..it's a pretty pink..


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

cane76 said:


> wouldnt advocate breeding in million years without a damn good reason,not in the midst of the overpoulation crisis and everything else thats facing this breed.JMO!!!!!!!!!!


cane, thank you for your opinion, the whole reason for the post was to get input so i can make a sound dicision on what i feel is rite. 
and i agree it is overpopulated with all breeds not just our beloved breed. that's why i wouldn't just breed with anyone. it would have to be with someone who shares the same concern for the welfare of the breed as a whole and the induv. pups as well.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

I would probably title first before even worrying about breeding. It will probably take some careful hunting around before you find a proven female as well. Breeding just to get a pup back seems wrong. If you do get your male titled and want a pup from him, I'm sure you can find someone that will work with you, some kennels would rather give a pup back in exchange for your stud service anyways.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

MADBood said:


> I would probably title first before even worrying about breeding. It will probably take some careful hunting around before you find a proven female as well. Breeding just to get a pup back seems wrong. If you do get your male titled and want a pup from him, I'm sure you can find someone that will work with you, some kennels would rather give a pup back in exchange for your stud service anyways.


i agree, my purpose would not be for 'just getting a pup back' 
thanks everyone on yalls advice, i've got some food for thought over the weekend!


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

chic4pits said:


> it would have to be with someone who shares the same concern for the welfare of the breed as a whole and the induv. pups as well.


ThaNK YOU AS well for the comment.
One thing to consider and is also very sad is this,
many of the very same individuals who claim to care for the the breeds welfare are the same people filling the pounds with apbts.This breed is the #1
breed in the pound today and also the #1 breed euthanized,for every 1 thats rescued 600 are euthed.
So unless you have the next "Colby's pincher" I'd be at least leery of breeding,especially inferior stock..
I do think its great that you want to learn and are excepting the answers many refuse to hear or become irate when faced with,it shows that you posses a open mind and can see beyond your own nose so to speak...


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

I think a very important factor is to be sure the dog has a Good or Exellent rating on the Hip Radiograph. Because any less than Good would just add to mediocrity and the over population problem.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

chic4pits said:


> what do you mean titled? he is reg. thru UKC and is 100 % heatlhy, all shots and goes to the vet every month for his updated dose of heartworm (sennial)-think i spelt that rite. so he is healthy and i have all the papers to prove he is.


Titled doesn't just mean in conformation in could be SchH, Obedience, Weight pull, agility, tracking

things like CGC and TDI s are also a plus

Health testing doesn't mean shots and just regular check up it means things like OFA testing , Penn Hip, CERF... test that check for genetic disorders which are not doe during regular vet checks

See the below to help you learn more ....
American Pit Bull Terrier Network Pit Bull Encyclopedia A to Z about the APBT
Encyclopedia of the American Pit Bull Terrier : HomePage
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
PennHIP - The University of Pennsylvania Hip Improvement Program
CERF - Canine Eye Registration Foundation

Also wanted to add that the stud doesn't go around usually inquiring about the females and offering to breed. The female's owners come in search of good studs.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

cane76 said:


> ThaNK YOU AS well for the comment.
> One thing to consider and is also very sad is this,
> many of the very same individuals who claim to care for the the breeds welfare are the same people filling the pounds with apbts.This breed is the #1
> breed in the pound today and also the #1 breed euthanized,for every 1 thats rescued 600 are euthed.
> ...


well, thank ya there sir. the way i look at it is, iv'e breed livestock all my life, that is what i know. now that i am older and have a family of my own , insted of livestock i perfer dogs, mainly our beloved ABPT's . after growing up with labs, and dif. heerding dogs, heelers, catty's, true these breeds are near to my heart, but it is something about the strenght, pride and idk, it's just something that i feel when i look at this breed that really draws me to it, i can't describe it. as corney as it may sound 'they feel like home' when i look at them. I have soo much pride when it comes to kolby, i enjoy nothing more than to sit an talk about him, i love to find things out from other owners (with more experince) and those with less experince, b/c either way you go about it, you never know what you might learn. i am always doing some kind of research on the breed, their standards,BL's, etc. i read whatever i can get my hands on. that's why i apperciate everyones view on here..you can't learn something if your just going to ingore what the things you dont want to hear, sometimes it's just what you dont wanna hear that will teach you what you need to know. starting a kennel is something i would love to do, but i don't know everything that goes into a dog kennel. i do know how much money and time and blood sweat and tears goes into producing quality show and beef cattle. so i'm sure it's around the same for dogs as well, if not more. this is something i would love to get into , but i feel that i dont know enough for that rite now, it would be stupid of me on my own part to do so. now, with all that being said, i will say, everyone has to start somewhere. some of our best 'dog men' started with just that one dog. 
but as i've said i'm just looking to breed kolby this once (if i decide to do it)


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## konked (Mar 27, 2007)

It sounds like you want to produce more "pets"

There are shelters full of pet quality pit bulls. If that's what you want.. i suggest you to not follow through with any breeding. I cannot stress enough how there are just too many byb's these days ruining the breed. It would be a shame if you contributed to that as well. Like said above though.. this is your dog and whatever you do with him is your choice. I just hope you don't make a bad choice.

Thanks for asking before you went through with anything though.


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

Chic...my opinion would be to get him started in showing or something that he can earn titles to. Right now he is to young to breed. He needs to be at least 18 to 24 months old before you should even think about it. That will give you plenty of time to get him in sanctioned events with his registry. I would do like Sampson's Dad and find you a mentor to help you out.

Have you ever thought about using him as a hog dog or anything since that is his background?


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

MetalGirl30 said:


> Chic...my opinion would be to get him started in showing or something that he can earn titles to. Right now he is to young to breed. He needs to be at least 18 to 24 months old before you should even think about it. That will give you plenty of time to get him in sanctioned events with his registry. I would do like Sampson's Dad and find you a mentor to help you out.
> 
> Have you ever thought about using him as a hog dog or anything since that is his background?


i agree, there is one coming to the colosium in jan. that i'm talking with the lady now getting the info on. (THANKS AGAIN PITBULLLOVER!!) kolby is still young, but being that i haven't got him fixed yet, with all the talk on here a while back about fixing our dogs to help discourage ppl from stealing, etc. got me to thinking..that since he wasn't fixed what would be the best option for him, wait and let him have his one nite of fun so to speak, or just go ahead and get him snipped. so that's how this whole disscussion came about. i really wanted to try to get both pro's and con's on breeding before i make that decision, i do realize that it's a while off now before it will actually be able to take place it just gives me more time to find out more info and let it stew on the brain. ya know? i just want to know what direction i'm gonna go so it's a lil' easier and better informed place once i get there. 
yea my dad's got him trained with the gun already we introduced it the same as we did with all the other dogs, while feeding, and he isn't so bad at it now, he see's you pull it out and he goes to lookin up..so at lest we know it's working! and has been using some duck training with him, other than just going to the camp and riding the 4wheeler with us is all we've taught him besides basic, sit, stay, lay drop, get and coming back..


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## pitbulllover27870 (Jul 6, 2008)

chic4pits said:


> (THANKS AGAIN PITBULLLOVER!!)


no problem!!


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

i'm so happy the lady is contacting me back wif info on this show, then i just found out about the one in McComb, MS!! i'm soo excited,*does her wigglie dance*
*rolls laughing*


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