# GameDogs



## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

Here are some good examples of real bulldogs

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [2042] :: *(ROBINSON'S) POWERHOUSE KENNEL'S SANDMAN**





ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [1021] :: CRENSHAW'S BLACK JACK





ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [110] :: (CRENSHAW'S) RODRIGUEZ' GATOR (4XW)





ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [29] :: GARNER'S FRISCO





I think this is Hollingsworths Redman
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [276486] :: HOLLINGSWORTH REDMAN





Crock son of Chinaman unable to post pedigree





Some Hollingsworth dogs





Gr Ch Boomerang
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [314] :: DAVIS' BOOMERANG





These are just some videos that I've come across from other forums. I figured I would share with ya'll.*


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## Czar (Nov 11, 2009)

whoa good post..why do some of those dogs look so small and skinny, is that the look for game dog?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

The original APBT was smaller than you see today, many bloodlines are still small. I even hate to say small they were normal size dogs it is just what you are seeing today is more as a result of a bully trend. Many bloodlines and dogs are under 50lbs. Thin maybe a bit but more like conditioned, if the pictures were taken close to finishing a keep the dogs would look more railed out and conditioned. If they are thicker they are most likely at chain weight.


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## Demios (Jan 9, 2010)

:goodpost:

According to the linked pedigree Black Jack there was 51 lbs conditioned weight. Now from what I've seen that was the higher end of the weight for a fighting dog. Way back in the day, during the immigration periods, I've heard dogs down at the 25lb. You then have something like Colby's Pinscher come in 1910ish or w/e and it weighed in around the 75lbs mark. A lot of the more recent champions I've come across in my reading are around the 35 to 45lbs range. The increase in size seems to have been a sort of American trend that eventually picked up to the intensity you see today.

Take all of that with a grain of salt ^ I haven't read nearly enough to say anything with any sort of confidence. Pit bull history is like trying to sort out a rubix cube.


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## money_killer (Apr 14, 2008)

nice dogs.........


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

performanceknls said:


> The original APBT was smaller than you see today, many bloodlines are still small. I even hate to say small they were normal size dogs it is just what you are seeing today is more as a result of a bully trend. Many bloodlines and dogs are under 50lbs. Thin maybe a bit but more like conditioned, if the pictures were taken close to finishing a keep the dogs would look more railed out and conditioned. If they are thicker they are most likely at chain weight.


bully trend and lack of any staff blood in the dog


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

Demios said:


> According to the linked pedigree Black Jack there was 51 lbs conditioned weight. Now from what I've seen that was the higher end of the weight for a fighting dog. Way back in the day, during the immigration periods, *I've heard dogs down at the 25lb. You then have something like Colby's Pinscher come in 1910ish or w/e and it weighed in around the 75lbs mark*. A lot of the more recent champions I've come across in my reading are around the 35 to 45lbs range. The increase in size seems to have been a sort of American trend that eventually picked up to the intensity you see today.
> 
> Take all of that with a grain of salt ^ I haven't read nearly enough to say anything with any sort of confidence. Pit bull history is like trying to sort out a rubix cube.


Yeah I was on a forum the other day and there is alot of people who love them 25 - 30 lb dogs(Lot more than I thought). Colbys Pincher was a big dog that 75lbs was his chain weight, when he was conditioned he was around 56-60lbs so I've read.


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## gh32 (Dec 22, 2007)

Nice videos.I really liked them.


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## gh32 (Dec 22, 2007)

Mcleod15 said:


> Yeah I was on a forum the other day and there is alot of people who love them 25 - 30 lb dogs(Lot more than I thought). Colbys Pincher was a big dog that 75lbs was his chain weight, when he was conditioned he was around 56-60lbs so I've read.


That's right,Colby's Pincher was upper 50s conditioned weight.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Also it depended on the dogmen, Some thought the bigger dogs had an advantage and some liked the smaller dogs. Both were successful and still today ppl argue what was better, smaller dogs or dogs like Colby's Pincher.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Some folks believed smaller dogs were more game.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

....also some people believed that buckskins and black dogs were more game. LMAO, the color of gameness. 
I dunno, I mean, Colby's Pincher OBVIOUSLY was THE perfect example of a game dog. IMO, he was THE game dog. People did what worked for their program, what worked for their line ups. I guess it came down to opinions and regions. I think what it truly came down to was GAME.


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## piteazy (Dec 14, 2009)

I think in most cases game dogs are smaller.. but sometimes u get a bigger stockier dog with the same heart out of the same litter.. Ive got a adba reg. game and he is 49 lbs at 6 months, biggest of the litter.. the other pups from the same litter are quite abit smaller..


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

wheezie said:


> bully trend and lack of any staff blood in the dog


So staffs make them smaller? They are two different breeds IMO.



Sampsons Dad said:


> Some folks believed smaller dogs were more game.


I think it was more of a convenience. You could not very well grab a 50 or 60 pound dog and scoot off if you were going to get the cops charge into a match. Size doesnt have to do with gameness. Naturally a big bully dog wont have the stamina of a smaller one in most cases.



piteazy said:


> I think in most cases game dogs are smaller.. but sometimes u get a bigger stockier dog with the same heart out of the same litter.. Ive got a adba reg. game and he is 49 lbs at 6 months, biggest of the litter.. the other pups from the same litter are quite abit smaller..


HMMMM you know dog fighting is against the law so either you are lying about having a game dog or you are breaking the law either way not something you want out on the net. There is only one way to test a dog for gameness.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

I think this day and age saying Game Dog is one thing, and gamebred is another. Game is almost indicating that the dog is being tested and gamebred is breeding from lines that were tried and true. JMO


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Often times, people say game dog when they MEAN game bred.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

reddoggy said:


> Often times, people say game dog when they MEAN game bred.


Probably the case here.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Yeah, lets hope cuz we won't let it fly here


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## piteazy (Dec 14, 2009)

gamer said:


> So staffs make them smaller? They are two different breeds IMO.
> 
> I think it was more of a convenience. You could not very well grab a 50 or 60 pound dog and scoot off if you were going to get the cops charge into a match. Size doesnt have to do with gameness. Naturally a big bully dog wont have the stamina of a smaller one in most cases.
> 
> HMMMM you know dog fighting is against the law so either you are lying about having a game dog or you are breaking the law either way not something you want out on the net. There is only one way to test a dog for gameness.


gamer... I never said I fought my dog... and in my opinion gameness is not just how good a dog fights.. its how big his determination not to give up at whatever he is put to... you see gamer its kinda like the difference between game chickens and laying chickens... someone must have peed in ur cherios but get over it


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

What Gamer is saying you cannot call your dog a game dog unless you are fighting them in the []. You may have a gamebred dog but not a game dog. The only way to determine gameness is in the [].

Some ppl will say hog hunting but IMO the [] is the only way.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

performanceknls said:


> What Gamer is saying you cannot call your dog a game dog unless you are fighting them in the []. You may have a gamebred dog but not a game dog. The only way to determine gameness is in the [].
> 
> Some ppl will say hog hunting but IMO the [] is the only way.


Gamebred means one or both parents are tested and proven game.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

piteazy said:


> gamer... I never said I fought my dog... and in my opinion gameness is not just how good a dog fights.. its how big his determination not to give up at whatever he is put to... you see gamer its kinda like the difference between game chickens and laying chickens... someone must have peed in ur cherios but get over it


lol sorry but no my cheerios are pee free. Go if gameness is *"its how big his determination not to give up at whatever he is put to.*" and you have never put your dog with another that has the possibility to give it a whooping ( which obviously we dont since it is not allowed) then you cant call him game sorry.


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

piteazy said:


> gamer... I never said I fought my dog... and in my opinion gameness is not just how good a dog fights..* its how big his determination not to give up at whatever he is put to.*.. you see gamer its kinda like the difference between game chickens and laying chickens... someone must have peed in ur cherios but get over it


That would be called high drive not gameness, gameness is only tested by puttin them in pit.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Mcleod15 said:


> That would be called high drive not gameness, gameness is only tested by puttin them in pit.


or 6th gear if youre referring to them like a finely tuned automobile


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Some great looking dogs in the videos. Great examples of a true APBT and what I love. 

The term game is thrown around WAY to loosely...


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## twitchf4i (Jan 22, 2010)

explain the difference between chain weight and keep weight


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

twitchf4i said:


> explain the difference between chain weight and keep weight


Chain weight is what the dog weighs when he is not working. 
Keep(conditioned) weight is what the dog weighs when he is being conditioned to work or show.


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

game dogs FTW. if your dog is not a gamebred apbt then we should just kill it off. all other breeds should just cease to exist. they are not worthy. (sarcasm much?)
on another note, great vids mcleod.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

vdubbinya said:


> game dogs FTW. if your dog is not a gamebred apbt then we should just kill it off. all other breeds should just cease to exist. they are not worthy. (sarcasm much?)


Sounds good to me lol Nah everyone likes something different there are a lot of breeds and a lot of different types of people. I am all about feeding what is in my mind a true APBT but would also feed a Patterdale or Jack so we have to at least keep those around


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

its all good. we are all entitled to our opinions


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## twitchf4i (Jan 22, 2010)

thanks bro


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

vdubbinya said:


> its all good. we are all entitled to our opinions


 :thumbsup:


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

Here is another video I found, and another all time great. One beautiful dog my friends.
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [122] :: K. ALLEN'S TORNADO (10XW)


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

piteazy said:


> gamer... I never said I fought my dog... and in my opinion gameness is not just how good a dog fights.. its how big his determination not to give up at whatever he is put to... you see gamer its kinda like the difference between game chickens and laying chickens... someone must have peed in ur cherios but get over it


 Where's your bowl?Because while you have the basic understanding of gameness in canines you fail to understand that there is very little that's analogous as regards the birds and the dogs.

In addition the concept that utilisation of the word gameness coveys ignorance is more than a liitle ludicrous.


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

Another video of a good bulldog, This was a good producer

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [1033] :: VISE-GRIP'S PONCHO (1XW 1XL)


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Excellent vids, McLeod.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Very cool... :goodpost: Makes me kick myself, I could have bought Crenshaws Gator back in the day, for less than 1K.. That was stupid. I am a fan of rare pure Jocko dogs light on the redboy, hard hitting kennels went to phillipines from the US they had pure Jocko dogs no more than 32lbs.. lil hard hitting scrappers... I like my game dogs, and I like em' small.. Dynamite; it comes in small packages, beware of the sweating nitro


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Mcleod15 said:


> Here is another video I found, and another all time great. One beautiful dog my friends.
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [122] :: K. ALLEN'S TORNADO (10XW)
> 
> YouTube - Dbl Gr Ch Tornado


I love this gyp! What is about the Females that make them more apt at being Dble Grnd Ch's? Straight cannibals some of these game bred gyps are, yeh..


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## lilboom (May 19, 2010)

good vids. thanks mcleod for posting.


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## TejReider (May 11, 2010)

nice videos, very gorgeous dogs..... GAME DOGS...... ok so this breed has been tested against themselves, used for battle, that still happens today, but these dogs were bred for work, i have two very game dogs, with high prey drive, and i dont fight them, but i take them hog hunting, you cant tell me i dont have game dogs, they are game, they are tested, and imo more so than in a fight with another dog, i dont know if you have ever seen a apbt chase down a 200+ lb hog and hold it, but if you do your research, a boar is more likely to kill your pit than another pit.... i have true game dogs, hades who is 5mo at about 40-42lbs and we just started training and conditioning in the hog pen, and jumps on a springpole.... and i have aries who is 4mo old and is 23lbs who is going to be a great game dog, my opinion is set and i have sent mr. colby an email asking him with pictures, i like fact not fiction, you can still call them game dogs, as long as they are not " obominations mixed with mastiffs" in the words of mr colby.... thats my 2 cents.... but the videos were great and even though you might not have pee'd in your cereal, i think you might have dripped a bit


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## TejReider (May 11, 2010)

definition of game or game bred
Game or Gameness is a quality of fighting dogs or working terriers that are selectively bred and conditioned from a very early age to develop traits of eagerness despite the threat of substantive injury. Dogs displaying this trait can also be described as persevering, ready and willing, full of fight, spirited, or plucky.[1]


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## crocro49 (Mar 22, 2009)

so they mean the same to you? lmao...


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

LOL @ TejReider they are two seperate things. no one can label there dog game without game testing them properly, which is illegal. that definition you posted is a fail. IMO


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Yeah, Tej, I don't think the term is interchangeable with hog hunting. Now I've never been hog hunting but my understanding is that the dogs hold onto the hog until you get there to finish it off right? Please correct me if I'm wrong (I often am). While it's definitely admirable and requires strength and courage to hold onto a much bigger animal that is trying to put a big hole in you to get away, the [] was a totally different challenge.

These dogs could sometimes be in there for 2+ hours and taking a huge amount of damage. Remember, the gamest dog is not always the dog that won. Gameness for these dogs was getting chewed on for hours on end and still be willing to go back for more.

So while I still have a ton of respect for what your dogs do, I think you should have some more respect for the old time dogs and dogmen by not calling your dogs game.


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## Notabluehippo (May 23, 2010)

so many of you believe that the label game is only givin to a [] tested dog and game bred means both parents are tested then wouldnt saying u owned either be admitting to a wrong doing on someones part as [] has been outlawed for more years then a single gen. just a lil thought for some


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## Notabluehippo (May 23, 2010)

as far as a hog dog not being considered game im kinda split on that. From historical terms no they arent but times change and so does use of words but that jmo. As far as it being considered game ive never heard of a contracted match that someone let there dog go 50+ lbs uphill on another dog but them hog dogs dont have a problem one. And if you wanna say them hogs aint as hard workers as another dog id beg to differ.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

In the APBT world except for those who go beyond our borders to other countries and let the dogs put in down, we can only breed GAME dogs or GAME bred dogs to each other. GAME deffinition that was posted was cool, but it leaves some of Colby's and Stratton's scattered opinion of game out. ALL ABPTs should be game bred BUT THEY ARE NOT, DRIVE is intense in these dogs, BUT not to be confused with game, when the dog is down and out, just holding on, rather it be a dog, a bear, a bull, a hog,etc...then whooped lil sack of bones for a dog musters up outta the plex and says "no I will not go down today." Run your dog and work it out for couple a hour or 2, 12miles in ,then work the hog, bear, bull etc..~ There are legal ways to test GAME in the APBT not in the [] however to do what they were bred to do before they were thrown into the [] forever dubbed "pit bull." MySpace - Abish'Ai' Err~ets' - 31 - Male - Blossom Moutain, Idaho - myspace.com/abishaikennels My kennel now retired, I have turned my Abishai game dogs into the long legged bulldog of the past.... from which all the pitdogs, bulldogs boxer included, came from~From two different bloodlines linebred in similiar ways then fused together Heavy Jocko/OFRN X Heavy Zebo/G&GSpike/Halls(adams dogs)heres Turkish Blend, aka Turk a 35lbs dog~







I knew what I had so I docked the tail compare to the game dog of the 1800s and before







, as colby and others have said the true working bulldog(where game comes from) is smaller in size and are a direct line to the APBT. But I'm the nut that believes the terriers and the bulldogs came from the game dog, which was bred to be big or small through the ages we can follow "pit bull" conformation and game back to the Greecian times(times of David). I piss on politics, it is what it is...


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