# Looking into our next dog



## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

After reading more and more posts on here, I am thinking, after Brutus is gone, maybe I might want to get a female from a breeder, as a companion for Loki, not to breed. Loki came from a guy selling pits by holding up a sign on a busy road on in a Motel 6 parking lot. Knowing what I know now, I realize that this guy was nothing more than a BYB and was selling these pups by using the pit name alone. However, I love my Loki to death and he has turned out to be a wonderful dog! And the way I see it, we saved him from a fate worse than death and I shiver to think what has become of Loki's litter mates. 

I have been trying to research local breeders and I think I may have found one that seems legitimate, but I don't know anything about bloodlines and whatnot so I need advice from someone who knows what they are talking about...

I found a website, http://www.northernlightsapbt.com/home.html that is 'relatively' nearby. And from my perspective, it seems legit. I need your opinions though, they are claiming to have "Colby, Red Boy and Panther mostly" bloodlines. Can anyone tell or show me anything about these lines?

Thanks!


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Don't know a heck of alot about Panther, will check though, but the other two are pretty game. Keep in mind that alot of jerks out there say they have Colby and really have Kolbie(lol). Lotsa frauds out there. Colby is pretty sought after, very expensive lines. Colby was a dogman way back when(late 1800s) and started at an early age. He bred out CH fighters, the best of the best. As a matter of fact, the AKC originally based to standard for the AmStaff on one of his pits. Awesome and able dogs. His family has kept the bloodline going to this day so the only true source of a Colby pit is through the Colby fam, throw that new car out the window if you want one though! I have a buddy who has an APBT who is mostly Colby(for real) and that dog is proven to the highest extent. Never fought but he is a worker. He heards cattle, if a cob or a bull takes of and butts heads with him he will not back down, he'll jump and grab the cows nose and bring it down to the ground. He'll let it back up and if he has to he'll do it again. He can pull, hang, tug, whatever you want! I believe he is also one quarter Carver. As for the others I will PM you a link that will have lotsa answers for you on those peticular lines


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Errr, hum... I personally would not. No titles (I don't count one CGC as significant to a breeding program), no health tests. Accidental breedings. (The breeding on their Produced page was supposedly accidental.) Not for me. I think its great that they're weight pulling and whatnot, but still, nuh uh. Not as it stands right now.

Okay, duh. I just realized you weren't asking about the breeders themselves. Oh well, take my two cents anyway. LOL


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

That's what I need though! I have never gotten a dog from a breeder before. And I am in Washington state, and I don't know of any reputable breeders in the area. Any ideas on how to find one?


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Okay, I looked through their site and at the pedigrees, and I don't know why they're claiming Colby, RedBoy and Panther. Their dogs look fairly scatterbred to me.

Cadillac: Two Colby dogs out of the 30 that are in the first 4 generations of the pedigree. Further back, you do find more Colby, but you also find AKC AmStaffs, Lar-San, Lonzo, OFRN, etc.

Aurora: No Colby in the 4-gen ped. Same kind of scatterbred stuff that's behind Cadillac.

Revival: Lots of gamebred blood behind him, but according to the peds site, he's only about 6% Panther. There is Redboy behind the bottomside, but its going back into the 6th and 7th generations. Folks don't usually go back that far.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Carriana said:


> That's what I need though! I have never gotten a dog from a breeder before. And I am in Washington state, and I don't know of any reputable breeders in the area. Any ideas on how to find one?


You've got shows out there, so you might want to hit them up and talk to people. For example, Caragan Kennels is out there. You might want to talk to Cheryl and see if she can help you find what you're looking for. She's good people. 

http://caragankennel.com/home1.html

ETA: The Victorinos are also in WA. They breed some nice dogs. http://www.victorinoskennel.com/


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Both of the kennels listed above can give you a great dog PLUS they are breeders who are there for you and to help you out along the way. Life time breeder support. Always nice to have. Even for just a pet you would get a quality dog from them.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Caragan Kennels is actually extremely close to me, so I will definetely have to check them out when the time comes to look for a new dog. Thanks you guys!


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

Try this breeder.

http://www.pittrpatter.com/

They are in your area and you can go to some of the shows and see their dogs or other breeders dogs.



bahamutt99 said:


> Okay, I looked through their site and at the pedigrees, and I don't know why they're claiming Colby, RedBoy and Panther. Their dogs look fairly scatterbred to me.
> 
> Cadillac: Two Colby dogs out of the 30 that are in the first 4 generations of the pedigree. Further back, you do find more Colby, but you also find AKC AmStaffs, Lar-San, Lonzo, OFRN, etc.
> 
> ...


That is a good point, but a lot of people don't know how to read peds or might not get their bloodline/pedigree down to a t. Revival they should perhaps just say Lonzo and not Panther. If he were my dog I'd say he was Lonzo/Eli/Carver on top and Red Boy on bottom

Cadillac sire does have quite a bit of Colby, but you have to go back to see it. Loposay used a lot of Colby blood and there is some other too. In the bottom there is some in his 5/6th. Top its immediately apparent 1/4th of the pedigree. I looked at the rest and yeah lots of other bloodlines in there, RedBoy, Jocko, Carver, OFRN, ect. Not really a Colby dog.

They've got the blue female too.

Yeah I wouldn't go with this breeder either.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Old_Blood said:


> Try this breeder.
> 
> http://www.pittrpatter.com/


Errm, breeds a lot, no health testing, makes questionable placements... Renee does title, which is good. But, well, I have my doubts. I wouldn't do it, personally. But as always, JMO.



> They've got the blue female too.


Yeah, I didn't include her, because they said she wasn't part of their program. But the breeder who co-owns her may be breeding her later.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

bahamutt99 said:


> Errm, breeds a lot, no health testing, makes questionable placements... Renee does title, which is good. But, well, I have my doubts. I wouldn't do it, personally. But as always, JMO.
> 
> Yeah, I didn't include her, because they said she wasn't part of their program. But the breeder who co-owns her may be breeding her later.


Oh yeah we all have opinions on different breeders. You have good points. I'd get a dog from her as a show dog personally. Others would not. I'm really unaware at how much she breeds though and only talked to her like once/twice. I don't know about questionable placements either. So it is good when other people know more about a certain breeder. I only know what I see on the site.

I wouldn't get a dog from Caragan personally because I believe in the contract you have to agree to complete basic and advance obediences classes with the pup. The trainer reports to them and is experienced in working with Pit Bulls. 
Good breeder, responsible, nice dogs, ect. Just personally wouldn't work for me.

Oh the comment about the blue dog wasn't directed at you. I was just making note of it. Because of her lines.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Old_Blood said:


> Oh yeah we all have opinions on different breeders. You have good points. I'd get a dog from her as a show dog personally. Others would not. I'm really unaware at how much she breeds though and only talked to her like once/twice. I don't know about questionable placements either. So it is good when other people know more about a certain breeder. I only know what I see on the site.


Yeah, I agree its good to ask around. Everybody has to make their own decision when it boils down to it, but we all have different experiences that are valuable to others as part of the learning process. I am extremely picky when I look at breeders, because I figure I can only fit so many dogs in my house, so I need to be happy with what I'm getting. And certainly, people can be happy with a dog from a box on the street corner, but that doesn't negate doing your research.

I also understand that some folks want a dog with the least possible strings attached. Me, I like strings. I like knowing what my responsibilities are, and what the breeder is guaranteeing me. I like knowing that if I can't keep that dog, there is someone willing to take it back no questions asked. I like someone holding me up to a high standard, because its challenging and rewarding for me to meet it.

All of this, of course, JMO.

If anybody wants elaboration on anything I've said here with regard to the various breeders, PM me and I'll be glad to discuss it. I try not to sling too much  publicly because its bad for my blood pressure. LOL!


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

bahamutt99 said:


> I also understand that some folks want a dog with the least possible strings attached. Me, I like strings. I like knowing what my responsibilities are, and what the breeder is guaranteeing me. I like knowing that if I can't keep that dog, there is someone willing to take it back no questions asked. I like someone holding me up to a high standard, because its challenging and rewarding for me to meet it.


From what I now understand, Caragan kennels requires you to sign a co-ownership contract with them, so basically you pay a lot of money for the dog, but don't actually own it until she trusts that you know what you are doing. Great, since there are so many pits going to bad homes around here, but I don't know that those kinds of strings are for me.

Thanks for everyones input though. I have a while before I will be actively looking to get a new dog, but this is all great info!

I think I might try and make it to the Evergreen State APBT Club's show in mid-July. I have never been to a dog show/competition before, do observers have to pay admission to shows? (Sorry if that seems like a stupid question, but like I said, I've never been).


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Quote:From what I now understand, Caragan kennels requires you to sign a co-ownership contract with them, so basically you pay a lot of money for the dog, but don't actually own it until she trusts that you know what you are doing. Great, since there are so many pits going to bad homes around here, but I don't know that those kinds of strings are for me. End Quote

Yeah, I don't like it either! That's cool that she is that conserned about her product but I think that co-ownership is a bit overboard. Reason being, you just payed a ton of money for this dog and find out it's retarded and not of competition quality or maybe something happens to you and you are not able to compete anymore but damnit you love that dog, she has the right to up and yank YOUR dog!?!?! Eff that! If I pay money for somethink and it's not going to the Government it had better be mine. IMO


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

bahamutt99, 

I was looking at your dogs' pics and noticed that your oldest girl has the same name as my baby boy. Great name for a pit IMO =) 

And I have to agree with the others who said that Priest was their favorite. He's one handsome dog!


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Carriana, thank you! I should note that all 3 of my dogs are on co-owns with the breeder. I've never found it to be an uncomfortable thing. 

As far as the Evergreen club show, no, there's no admission to go and watch. Sometimes there's a fee to park, depending on the location. (Down here, you might pay $1 or $5.) But if that's the ADBA club I'm thinking about, the ADBA doesn't welcome dogs that aren't competing, so leave your dog at home.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

bahamutt99 said:


> Carriana, thank you! I should note that all 3 of my dogs are on co-owns with the breeder. I've never found it to be an uncomfortable thing.


That's good to know! It just seemed odd to me is all. I completely understand why a breeder would do that though, esp. a Pit breeder.

[/QUOTE] As far as the Evergreen club show, no, there's no admission to go and watch. Sometimes there's a fee to park, depending on the location. (Down here, you might pay $1 or $5.) But if that's the ADBA club I'm thinking about, the ADBA doesn't welcome dogs that aren't competing, so leave your dog at home.[/QUOTE]

I assumed I would leave him home =) Since he's just a house dog I figure he would probably embarrass me if I brought him, compared to the well mannered show dogs. But I kinda figured anyway. And the show is at the Evergreen State Fairgrounds, and I don't believe they charge for parking. Have you been to the Evergreen club's shows before?


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

no picking on the breeder posted in the original post just noticed something and was curious if others see it too...

on the produced page...something about the black and white pups looks funny to me...like head shape/length of muzzle and the tails look long...is it just me?


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

No, I noticed it too. Not sure exactly what, but you're right, something seems off. Ear placement maybe?


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

ADBA show dogs aren't typically well-behaved. They're expected to show fire. So a dog acting like a Pit Bull isn't an embarassment there. 

As for the pups on that page, they've got a lot of muzzle but not a lot of dome on top. Pups are pups, and pups with more gamebred blood behind them don't necessarily have the round look that some are used to seeing. I called Terra "Megabeak" before she started getting some cheeks to fill out her head. Some are just slow to mature. Terra went through some mad ganglies, and at a year old, she still has a lot of maturing to do. She tends to lose in the show ring to dogs who are already grown up-looking, but that doesn't mean that she wont be the the other dog's equal or possibly better once time has worked its magic.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Carriana said:


> Have you been to the Evergreen club's shows before?


Missed this question. Nope, I've never been to the PNW. Too far away for me. But here's a video someone made from there fun show one year:


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Man I missed this years' fun show by a couple of weeks. If only I had found that site sooner. Oh well. Maybe next year.

And as far as my dogs acting like pits...they would do me proud :thumbsup:


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

I don't mind strings with contracts and things. I've never broken a contract I've signed for a pup. I also like co ownership and co own several dogs. 

I just don't need someone checking up on me training the dog and having a trainer report to them like I'm in grade school. I'm perfectly capable of training my own dog. 

There is also the fact that even if I wanted to agree to the contract, adopt a pup and take the training classes it would be near impossible. My local training facility does not allow Pit Bulls so I couldn't take the pup to those classes. I could use one of the few trainers that are about 2hrs drive one way if I wanted to spend that gas money regularly and of course 4hrs of driving regularly. Then there is no guarantee that any of those trainers meet this breeders requirements since I probably have more experience working with Pits then they do. So who is to say the breeder would agree on those trainers being right since they probably have worked very little with Pits.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Honestly, I think a lot of what breeders say publicly is to weed out the weak. (Not saying anybody here is weak.) I'm sure if someone really wanted to buy a dog from Cheryl, and they showed her "Look, I've titled this dog, and been competing in this, this and this," that she'd take that into consideration. Most likely, she's got those requirements in place to stop those who want one of her dogs, but aren't ready. She probably gets a lot of interest.

Hell, Matrix made us put up a privacy fence in the middle of winter when the ground was rock hard and privacy fence panels were out of season. LOL! Talk about weeding out the weak. We were weak after putting up that dang fence, slat by slat.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

bahamutt99 said:


> Most likely, she's got those requirements in place to stop those who want one of her dogs, but aren't ready. She probably gets a lot of interest.


Good point. And we probably aren't ready. Which is why I want to get out there and go to some shows and see what they are all about. And also move out of this stinkin' city! We have a mild BSL here regarding pits as "potentially dangerous dogs". But the requirements are simply to license and register your dogs as potentially dangerous animals. Lame-O!


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Yeah, you've got plenty of time. I started researching breeders 6 years before I got a puppy. I, too, lived in a city with restrictions at the time. It sucked at first, but we got out of there before too long.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

bahamutt99 said:


> Honestly, I think a lot of what breeders say publicly is to weed out the weak. .


I have to completely agree. I know of several breeders who do this and it changes the type of people that bother to contact them.

I don't breed regularly or really at all right now but I even have strict strict polices listed. I have noticed a change in the type of people that contact me about getting on a reservation list.


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