# Chinaman Bloodline



## Nick0887

I know theres a bloodline section but theres more views here and I don't have a question about the bloodline just wondering if anyone has any pitbulls with the chinaman bloodline. I have a chinaman but have not seen any others just curious to see how they look. Thanks, Nick


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## reddoggy

Sweet Pea...


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## shadyridgekennels

Miss Rage


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## reddoggy

shadyridgekennels said:


> Miss Rage


Yours looks like she has more chinaman than mine. Mine has some big names in her lineage, I think that Tombstone is the more dominant outta the bunch. Still I love Chinaman, he was a great dog.


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## topsecret0626

*Chinaman*

i am picking up a 50% chinaman 50% razors edge tomorrow. he is about 7 wks old and is all white with a couple tan patches on his ears and eye. will post pictures of him with mischief tomorrow when i get him home a cleaned up and what not. and for those who dont know mischief is 50% jeep and 50% gotti. will be posting pictures like crazy hahaha. oh and i will even throw in some pictures of my fiance's husky i just got him.


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## reddoggy

Topsecret... Don't read my tone the wrong way here. But please tell me you aren't paying an arm and a leg for these dogs. We will love your dogs the way we'd love anyother, but we frown on breeders crossing bully line with great APBT lines like Jeep and Chinaman. Nothing wrong with the dogs them selves. We just have a hard time understanding why a person would want to take some really good genes and dilute tem with a different breeds blood. Is it for the name? These are all big names, just not matching dogs.


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## topsecret0626

*my dogs*

hahaha no i am not paying an arm and a leg for these babies. i only paid 50 for Mischief and i am getting Trouble for free. i am sorry you look down on my crosses i am getting and i kinda understand why you do but at the same time has anyone really thought about it, if we are trying to better the reputation of the bully breed in general and crossing brings out the better of a certain trait like personality, disposition, structure, ability to work, ability to deal with and love children, then isnt that whats really important? i mean lets think about this, people like me not only love the breed but want to help out in many ways and if crossing a few lines here and there is what it takes to get the point across to the world that pit bulls or any bully for that matter that they are trying to ban with this BSL are great dogs then so be it i will take it crossed or not. i am not really understanding why some people and please dont take offense but some people are critisising me for my crosses but at the same time what if these crosses came from a true kennel breeder that you all liked, then you would critisize you would welcome with open arms. i was talking to MY MIKADO about how these kennels are making a pit that is called "new blood" and everyone is liking the idea but if someone like me who hasnt fully gotten established yet but is in the process does talk about doing something like that then i am hated on again not just pointing this at you just stating the facts ok lol. i am lost in this all and thats why i had talked about leaving. most people on here want to jump me and ask questions later and the thing is if you all would listen to me and ask me questions, as you did, then you will see that i am only here for the pit and all bullys for that matter. i am here to help stop bsl all over the world and help the rep of these poor babies get better. i plan to take my babies to schools and teach the kids that pits are great dogs and not fighters and what not, my babies will be health and temperment certified, i am gonna try to start a local pit group here in my state so as to help the pits and show people that pits are actually better dogs than most of you dogs that are considered "family" dogs. i also plan to train my babies in weight pullin and other agility type competitions. i plan to back myself 110% wth orwithout the support of others and i really mean that and then when i am diong great things for these babies everyone who doubted me will look back and be like "damn, shoul have got to know her instead of just hating on here thinking she didnt know shit". i joined this group in hopes to learn much more than i have already learned and to help better myself for my journey. so its no big deal if you agree or not but i will show all. thank you and no offense.


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## cane76

topsecret0626 said:


> i am picking up a 50% chinaman 50% razors edge tomorrow. he is about 7 wks old and is all white with a couple tan patches on his ears and eye. will post pictures of him with mischief tomorrow when i get him home a cleaned up and what not. and for those who dont know mischief is 50% jeep and 50% gotti. will be posting pictures like crazy hahaha. oh and i will even throw in some pictures of my fiance's husky i just got him.


Do you or will you have pedigrees for the dog?
The reason for the question is alot of byb's just throw names around to make the dogs sound special,jeep,alligator,rednose,chinaman,gotti,razors edge,
these are in fact bloodlines,but some have more incommon than other's,and all of these names get thrown around quite a bit,weather the dogs actually are what the individual says is another tory altogether.either way,good luck....
*this is the actuall dog"chinaman"a scrapy,"little" dog*


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## reddoggy

Agreeing with Cane as usual... Hey, I wasn't trying to attack you, just making conversation. We have nothing against you or your dogs. We're just stating facts and opinions to gain a better understanding. As far as crossing in order to better the breed, this is not how you go about it. By taking ch bred dogs with perfect temperaments and breeding in the same area. By crossing you not actually bettering the breed because the result will be animals that are not of the same breed. I happen to like Gotti(the original), R.E., Jeep, and China man. But you have to understand that Gotti and R.E. are AmBully not pit. Nothing wrong with them but why cross them with great pit lines? Say you are relly into rotties, but they have a bad rep, would you agree that it's okay to cross them with Mastiff to better the breed? We can better the APBT rep by promoting responsible ownership and pressing harder on back yard breeders. You will find that titled pits never make the news. Again, please don't read my tone the wrong way here, I just find this to be stimulating conversation. We don't bash individual dogs here as well, just the breeder who thought they'd do something clever by adding to the extinctionand/ or bad rep of the breed.


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## shadyridgekennels

reddoggy said:


> Yours looks like she has more chinaman than mine. Mine has some big names in her lineage, I think that Tombstone is the more dominant outta the bunch. Still I love Chinaman, he was a great dog.


yup she is a heavy chinaman bitch.:thumbsup:


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## topsecret0626

*not taking you the wrong way*

i understand where you are coming from i really do and again i dont take anything you are saying wrong. i am mainly getting the pits i am getting to be my other children. if i ever did breed them then so be it but again i really just want them as my babies. my kids love the pups and thats al that really matters. i know what you are saying about back yard breeders and if thats how you all classify me its fine ok. i havent bread yet and will be a long time before i ever did. i plan to have blood work done on both dogs just to see just where they stand as far as blood line and what not. i dont think i can trust the word from the people i get them from but then again i could be wrong. both the pits i got came from accidental breeding. Mischiefs parents are as follows: mommy=100% Jeep going back 4 generations on paper. father=100% Gotti going back 6 generations on paper. i cant really argue with paper now can i hahahahahaha. Troubles parents are as follows: daddy=100% Razors edge with 6 generations on paper. mommy=100% Chinaman going 5 generations on paper. again cant really argue with the facts now can i hahahahahahaha. still want blood work done and will get it. what i want to know is, are all of you against them being bread for real? i mean if those are strong lines just a lil messed up on the crossing would i be wrong if i bread them later on? please dont get mad for me asking but i want to know. i think the pups would be great and given i would put them on contracts with strict outline stating that if there was ever an issue they need to be brought back and that as long as the pup is owned you must keep in close contact with pictures? believe me when i say i only wat the best for my pits and if to breed it would just be to bring out the best in them and not to just make money i really really mean that.


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## bahamutt99

Topsecret, so you realize how many generations you'd have to breed those dogs in order to get any kind of consistency? You're talking about adding the game blood to improve the traits of the bully, but you know what's likely to happen? If you bred those two dogs, you'd get probably half gamebred dogs and half bullies. It would take years for you to see the benefit to crossing two types of dogs that are totally different. And you'd have to keep most of the puppies yourself, so you can monitor the results and make sure they aren't bred to something you don't want in your program. And since you're only planning on maybe breeding sometimes, you'd really be better off leaving it alone.

Anyway. I've stated the reasons against casual breeding ad nauseum. You're going to have to work through it on your own, I understand, but hopefully if there's anyone else reading this and considering doing something similar, they'll get some benefit out of what I say.


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## cane76

topsecret0626 said:


> what i want to know is, are all of you against them being bread for real? i mean if those are strong lines just a lil messed up on the crossing would i be wrong if i bread them later on? please dont get mad for me asking but i want to know.


Am i against it?
I believe that the majority of the apbt community will be against your breeding as well as society in general so your not gonna find to much love in either, you may want to do some research and establish some goals and plans that do more than mearly scratch the surface before deciding this is what you want to do,then again if you just want to throw two dogs together,and dont give a [email protected]!# what happens to them or what people are gonna think,thats a whole diffrent story.and im not saying thats what you want to do........
1 question,why pitbulls,why not labs,golden retrievers or some other breed?
and 1 thing to consider,the breeding of a bully and a game dog is kinda like breeding together two diffrent breeds,,the litter may lack some consistancy
of uniformed type and temperment...


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## buzhunter

No offense, but breeding APBT blood into bully blood only creates a mutt. It _MAY_ improve the bully in them, but it only ruins the APBT in them. The pups you have or are getting should have never been bred in the first place but they are here now so if you love them that's all that matters. That and *sterilization*. I hope you understand what I am trying to get across here. You sound like someone who really loves dogs. Again, no offense intended. I'm just simply not as articulate as other members. :cheers:


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## reddoggy

Damn straight!


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## Nick0887

Thanks for the pics, all the dogs look really good. I have always wanted to see other chinaman pitbulls but never got the chance. I bought my dog in new hampshire and the guy told me she was a chinaman and I have papers for her. Heres some pics of her I have to get better ones because her ears look funny in the newer pic. 









recent


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## shadyridgekennels

where in nh did you get her from? we are from mass


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## Nick0887

I think it was nottingham not sure would have to check her papers but I am from mass why do you know the breeder or something


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## Old_Blood

Nick0887 said:


>


I love this dog! Probably just the likeness to the OFRN/Clouse. I love her expression and color. More pics? What is her pedigree.

This is 3/4 Hammonds and 1/4 Chinaman


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## Nick0887

I am not sure her pedigree I know her bloodline is chinaman but I am kinda new to this but I got a paper with her like certificate and the breeder told me to send it out to get her 7 year pedigree. I am guessing I have to do that before I can find out. O and what is OFRN/clouse ? again sorry but I am new at this so I am hoping to learn a lot from being on this forum

and thanks for the complimant on her I will get some new pics soon and your dog looks good as well.


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## meno222

here is my boy chinaman/frisco bred.


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## reddoggy

meno222 said:


> here is my boy chinaman/frisco bred.


BEAUTIFUL!!! Wow, the Chinaman really stands out in him!


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## MADBood

To Topsecret:I have seen this first hand gamebred outcrossed with bully. It results in game and bully pups...not the best of both worlds. It will take several generations to breed out the unwanted traits with careful selection. However, the bullies in the litter will have alittle more gameness to them. If you are planning to breed some of the buyers are probably going to wonder why you have chinaman bred into bullies and assume you are a byb or just plain naive.A general rule of thumb Gotti breeds well with R.E.,Lobo,Greyline. and Chinaman breeds good to Jeep and Alligator, Jeep breeds true to Redboy and Rascal and etc. If you do not intend on breeding..then enjoy your dogs and spoil them. Who cares what others think.


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## Old_Blood

MADBood said:


> To Topsecret:I have seen this first hand gamebred outcrossed with bully. It results in game and bully pups...not the best of both worlds. It will take several generations to breed out the unwanted traits with careful selection. However, the bullies in the litter will have alittle more gameness to them. If you are planning to breed some of the buyers are probably going to wonder why you have chinaman bred into bullies and assume you are a byb or just plain naive.A general rule of thumb Gotti breeds well with R.E.,Lobo,Greyline. and Chinaman breeds good to Jeep and Alligator, Jeep breeds true to Redboy and Rascal and etc. If you do not intend on breeding..then enjoy your dogs and spoil them. Who cares what others think.


How much is a little more gameness? Why are these dogs even being game tested?


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## MADBood

What I am trying to say is it is possible for a APBT X AmBully to produce bigger statured dogs with more energy or a higher prey drive meaning more "gameness". ABPTs were bred for "gameness" as far back as you can trace, it doesn't mean that you have to test anything, its in thier nature. You let a rabbit come into your yard and your pit spots it.....you'll understand what I'm talking about. Bullies are bred for thier appearance and most tend to be slow and lazy, I know, I own them. I also own an APBT with Boudreaux 3 generations back in his pedigree. The difference is night and day.


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## ericschevy

Oh boy, here we go..


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## cane76

Gameness has to be tested for,if not you can speculate,but youll never really know.
Possably your confusing high prey drive with gameness 0r the desire to see any task through for the duration no matter how badly injured..
Im sure there has been a dog that posseced the trait of gameness
that was never tested,but then again youll never know.
gameness is really unimportant in my opinion,high drive animal is what i look for...


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## MADBood

Gameness is a willingness to succeed or overcome, no matter what hardship must be endured. A game dog is determined to beat its opponent, no matter what odds are stacked against it, even unto death.......I wouldn't test this aspect of thier gameness is all I'm saying.


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## wheezie

there is only one way to test gameness and a dog seeing a rabit is not it


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## MADBood

So when a dog sees the rabbit, chases it, grabs it,shakes it,then kills it and ENJOYS doing it the whole time. That isn't part of thier gameness?


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## reddoggy

MADBood said:


> So when a dog sees the rabbit, chases it, grabs it,shakes it,then kills it and ENJOYS doing it the whole time. That isn't part of thier gameness?


*raspberry noises* LOL


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## cane76

MADBood said:


> So when a dog sees the rabbit, chases it, grabs it,shakes it,then kills it and ENJOYS doing it the whole time. That isn't part of thier gameness?


nope,a grayhound would do the samething,that is called prey drive.......................


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## MADBood

...... i stand corrected.:flush:


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## Marty

*Gameness as quoted by my son*

*And I have to agree here...*


Shon said:


> Gameness is not the willingness to continue fighting, in any definition. In short, gameness can somewhat be described by simply the willingness to continue, under all adversity and animosity, for the sake of improvement. However, in detail, the continuance is not to be misinterpreted as succeeding; being succeeded is the ultimate goal of gameness.
> 
> Gameness does not describe anything that is perfect, simply because there is no such thing. The strive for perfection can never quite be accomplished. But, for one to strive for near perfection, never falter on a decision made, learn from obstacles and implement the strengthening of weaknesses can be described as gameness.
> 
> The idea of gameness is to be fluent and to adapt to any task at hand.
> 
> Knowledge is knowing the path, experience is to understand it.
> 
> Gameness can not be achieved or grasped as it is not a title or an award. Gameness is a perspective and can only be perceived in a competitive event where learning from an opposing opponent is relevant.


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## buzhunter

Very, very interesting interperetation. I'd love to hear more...


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## cane76

to deep and complex for my small caveman brain to comprehend,j/k...


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## ericschevy

WOW that was deep..


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## c0ldfusi0n

My roommate and I just picked up some Chinamans from NC this weekend. Theyre about 8 weeks old in this pics. Although im sorta questioning how big they are at this age. Bro and sis, 17lbs & 15lbs. Lemme know what you guys think.


Sorry about the links. Cant post actual links for another 14 posts


g.imagehost.org/view/0883/Dog_Days_067
f.imagehost.org/view/0377/Dog_Days_078
f.imagehost.org/view/0480/Dog_Days_074


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## MetalGirl30

This was my boy King...he was 50% Gator and 50% Chinaman.... and the sweetest dog I have ever owned.

Just about every photo I have of him his tongue is hanging out...lol! Boy could stay on a spring pole forever and loved to take a bath or play in any water for that matter. We could not turn on the outside hose without him going crazy. He would stand on his back legs for a long time as long as you were squirting him. We timed him one time and he stood on his hind legs for almost 20 minutes.


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## c0ldfusi0n

MetalGirl30 said:


> This was my boy King...he was 50% Gator and 50% Chinaman.... and the sweetest dog I have ever owned.
> 
> Just about every photo I have of him his tongue is hanging out...lol! Boy could stay on a spring pole forever and loved to take a bath or play in any water for that matter. We could not turn on the outside hose without him going crazy. He would stand on his back legs for a long time as long as you were squirting him. We timed him one time and he stood on his hind legs for almost 20 minutes.


Beautiful dog. How big is he in that pic?


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## eddy

i just got a pup with chinaman/bolio/boomer bloodline with papers i paid $500


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

to all you bully lovers that have to listen about your papers being hung. chinaman and frisco have alot of controversey about having hung papers also.


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## MetalGirl30

c0ldfusi0n said:


> Beautiful dog. How big is he in that pic?


He wasn't all that tall just broad. Last weigh he was 60 pounds.


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## reddoggy

CINCINNATIBULLIES said:


> to all you bully lovers that have to listen about your papers being hung. chinaman and frisco have alot of controversey about having hung papers also.


Frisco looking KINDA like Bolio and Chinaman looking like the mailman. ... .. . .. LOL:hammer:


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## Mystro

I agree with you 100% good post when i got my dog i discovered from reading based on his size and structure that he's not an old school pit.But also from reading i question which ones are.Prejudice is Prejudice not matter which way it is percieved or recieved,criticisms are accepted amongst mature men and women and used to make us better.But if you came to learn i believe you came to the right place i've gained tons of experience here.


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## ranger

Here is my boy Namor Chinaman blood lines. XXL type 14 weeks in pic


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## dixieland

ranger said:


> Here is my boy Namor Chinaman blood lines. XXL type 14 weeks in pic


He is gorgeous!I love his color!!


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## ranger

dixieland said:


> He is gorgeous!I love his color!!


Thanks much for the compliment...


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## reddoggy

*Again, stay on topic or thread will be closed.
If yall wanna debate make a thread for it elsewhere. *


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## chiakong

XXL Chinaman?

I doubt that exists...

Chinaman=Game dog

XXL=Bully Creation


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## Teekospits

Its not the animals that need to be better but the owners. But all animal has been crossed with one or more animal to become what there are today. Adding other dogs to as a breed to better the breed is what was done to make a dog perfect for its job he had to do. So I consider no dog is pure. Its what he done in that period of lifetime to be reward as a breed. I'm not saying I disagree with anyone opinion but this is how I look at it. Eventually the breed of any animal going to keep evolving as long as it breed for a certain job as well as health and temper part of the breeding program. Feel me!!! I must say this though I admire every breed for what they accomplish in life no matter who breed them and no matter how many type of dog was breed to get one breed out of it.


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## Dolla904

*In Search Of*

I'm in search of a tight bred chinaman x Lee Ling pup if anyone has any or no of anyone with a litter dropping please contact me


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## wheezie

check with TG


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## raiderhater1785

Beautiful chinaman dogs! In all actuality, to an ignorant general public, often simply owning a bully, APBT, pitbull etc. - responsibly - goes a long way towards bettering the breed rep. Spaying, neutering, being educated and keeping your dog in a positive light for the public eye does quite a bit! Pet quality dogs can be increadible representations of the breed, and amazing tools to fight BSL! There is no need to breed in the fight against BSL. Even the best of intentions can fall so short. Dont try to make the perfect dog to change people's minds, just be the perfect owner and watch people change their own minds!


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## gamer

chiakong said:


> XXL Chinaman?
> 
> I doubt that exists...
> 
> Chinaman=Game dog
> 
> XXL=Bully Creation


Heck someone once told me Garner had a 90 pound dog on his yard currently, he thought that was funny when I talked to him. Some people just dont get it.


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## pitbullmamanatl

meno222 said:


> here is my boy chinaman/frisco bred.


*
That is one beautiful, strong looking dog. *


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

most overated bloodline out! completely overbred, rumors of paper hanging, and mr garner's negative attitude towards anyone that has questions about his blood are a few reasons i say this.

and by the way tg does have larger catchweight dogs on his yard and advertised openly in the journal. this is what i am talking about about his attitude problem. he double talks, and retracts statements and ads he posted or said. i think i was on here before arguing with someone bout this. i am going to go find his ad in the journal about his catchweight dogs.


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## gamer

CINCINNATIBULLIES said:


> most overated bloodline out! completely overbred, rumors of paper hanging, and mr garner's negative attitude towards anyone that has questions about his blood are a few reasons i say this.
> 
> and by the way tg does have larger catchweight dogs on his yard and advertised openly in the journal. this is what i am talking about about his attitude problem. he double talks, and retracts statements and ads he posted or said. i think i was on here before arguing with someone bout this. i am going to go find his ad in the journal about his catchweight dogs.


Hmm well anytime I talk to him he does not have an attitude and answers questions openly.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES

i'v had other people tell me tg is open and polite. maybe i rubbed him the wrong way because i own bullies and gamebred dogs. don't know i do know there are issue of hung papers in the line.


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## Rudy4747

a friend of mine in south carolina has an amazing china man dog. Very heavy chinaman, now I don't know his exact weight but he is pretty good sized dog he is a little taller and heavier than Dooney. But he is one of my favorite dogs I posted a pic of him in the Cleburne ADBA show pics.


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## gamer

CINCINNATIBULLIES said:


> i'v had other people tell me tg is open and polite. maybe i rubbed him the wrong way because i own bullies and gamebred dogs. don't know i do know there are issue of hung papers in the line.


Paper hanging is in many lines I suppose it goes back to ethics and trust. If you trust someone do business with them if not then dont is the way I see it.


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## cezo

HEY I HAVE A CHINAMAN FRISCO AND LIVE IN MASS....LOOKIN FOR A NICE CHINAMAN FRISCO MALE....SHE IS GOIN TO B IN HEAT SOON....SHE IS A REALLY NICE DOG....PLZ REPLY IF YOUR OUT THERE...HERES 2 PICS OF HER...AND ONE OF HER MOM...


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## pitbullmamanatl

cezo said:


> HEY I HAVE A CHINAMAN FRISCO AND LIVE IN MASS....LOOKIN FOR A NICE CHINAMAN FRISCO MALE....SHE IS GOIN TO B IN HEAT SOON....SHE IS A REALLY NICE DOG....PLZ REPLY IF YOUR OUT THERE...HERES 2 PICS OF HER...AND ONE OF HER MOM...


How old is she? Why are you breeding her? Has she been health tested? Will you run health tests on the male? Do you have a waiting list? Are you going to microchip the dogs? Are you prepared to take back ANY dog that you produce that becomes homeless whether it be 6 months or 6 years from now?

Do you realize there are thousands of pit bulls that die everyday because they were bred by someone who didn't care enough to do it right?



> After almost thirty years as a "fad breed" the American pit bull is suffering the same downward slide in physical and mental quality that any breed suffers in this position. No amount of "rescue" will repair the breed. That is the job of the serious breeder.


 (Diane Jessup)


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## j-crash

pitbullmamanatl said:


> How old is she? Why are you breeding her? Has she been health tested? Will you run health tests on the male? Do you have a waiting list? Are you going to microchip the dogs? Are you prepared to take back ANY dog that you produce that becomes homeless whether it be 6 months or 6 years from now?
> 
> Do you realize there are thousands of pit bulls that die everyday because they were bred by someone who didn't care enough to do it right?
> 
> (Diane Jessup)


..............................
BAM!


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## pitlover2010

wow some real cracking dogs there,
cant seem to get pics up


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## pitlover2010

reddoggy said:


> Agreeing with Cane as usual... Hey, I wasn't trying to attack you, just making conversation. We have nothing against you or your dogs. We're just stating facts and opinions to gain a better understanding. As far as crossing in order to better the breed, this is not how you go about it. By taking ch bred dogs with perfect temperaments and breeding in the same area. By crossing you not actually bettering the breed because the result will be animals that are not of the same breed. I happen to like Gotti(the original), R.E., Jeep, and China man. But you have to understand that Gotti and R.E. are AmBully not pit. Nothing wrong with them but why cross them with great pit lines? Say you are relly into rotties, but they have a bad rep, would you agree that it's okay to cross them with Mastiff to better the breed? We can better the APBT rep by promoting responsible ownership and pressing harder on back yard breeders. You will find that titled pits never make the news. Again, please don't read my tone the wrong way here, I just find this to be stimulating conversation. We don't bash individual dogs here as well, just the breeder who thought they'd do something clever by adding to the extinctionand/ or bad rep of the breed.


you have a standing ovation from me with that reply, a dog is a dog and 99% of bad behavior is due to an irresponsible or uneducated owner,
I also have to agree with you that breeds should not have different strains bred in to them, a breed should be kept pure and always to enhance the quality, (hence rep breeders)..


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## maniacstrain

well ive talked to tg and know many that have known him well some like him and his dogs some just dont alot the old timers in the game did paper hanging as most would sell u a piece the pie but not the recipe now i have a chinaman/lonzo dog and he looks alot like chinaman i think








he is a all around bulldog lacking not much of anything a true great dog


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