# Paper matching



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

My 18 or so years experience with pit bulls I have not done much breeding.
As a matter of fact; I personally have only had two purebred pitbull litters.
I would like to pick the brains of more experienced breeders.

This whole list of questions is purely hypothetical.
Whatever information I gleaned from this will be used toward breeding other breeds since I do not have anything to add to pit bulls.
In other words, I am saying that since I cannot improve upon pit bulls at present, I will not be breeding them. I have decided that since I will not game test dogs, and I already have hunting dogs I would not be able to improve upon the game dog bloodlines. For that reason I decided not to breed pit bulls.

so that being said, let me get to my questions

When you have dogs that are health tested and hunt tested in the pedigree for several generations and have multi-championship titles in every generation ..... do you try to match the pedigree from present generations. Or do you go back to bring back old blood?
For instance, there is a dog that is very prominent in my females pedigree confirmation champion, as well as a hard hunting, good-looking example of the breed. In my kennel I want to re-create that dog's type and drive. 

This dog is about four generations back. Doubled up on the fifth generation. It is a very reliable type and produces hard biting, hard temperament (not sissyfied cowards that you often see with too much in-breeding), healthy dogs.

I am not crazy about our crosses to other bloodlines, because I am all about consistency. I do not like to see a whole Lotta kennel names on the pedigree. Oftentimes with too many out crosses, you inherit the worst of all the other kennels traits and not enough of what you were looking for.

Or is it that I am just too worried about variables? Am I being too paranoid? I would like to hear what other breeders consider on this topic?


thank you for your time.
Angel


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Sampsons Dad said:


> My 18 or so years experience with pit bulls I have not done much breeding.
> As a matter of fact; I personally have only had two purebred pitbull litters.
> I would like to pick the brains of more experienced breeders.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm not a breeder, but this is my take on it if you don't mind me putting my two cents into the pot. If you truley love this particular dog in your girls pedigree... get to know more about him, his parents and his offspring as far as health and drive go. Just make sure that he consitantly produces healthy dogs as well solid temperaments. I really don't think it would be a bad idea to hunt him down and use him to continue the blood. He hasn't shown up in the pedigree in 4 generations, it's probably safe to say you'd make a decent line bred litter.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Well, I'm not a breeder, but this is my take on it if you don't mind me putting my two cents into the pot. If you truley love this particular dog in your girls pedigree... get to know more about him, his parents and his offspring as far as health and drive go. Just make sure that he consitantly produces healthy dogs as well solid temperaments. I really don't think it would be a bad idea to hunt him down and use him to continue the blood. He hasn't shown up in the pedigree in 4 generations, it's probably safe to say you'd make a decent line bred litter.


Unfortunately that particular dog is not alive anymore.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Sampsons Dad said:


> Unfortunately that particular dog is not alive anymore.


Is it possible that he had semen stored? If not, maybe one of his tightly bred offspring could offer you a substitute.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

To find a dog that has that direct dog as close to sire as possible or a dog that is like say a 2nd cousin to your dog sharing the same ancestor. But variables are part of genetics, thats life... You will get either alot of what you want or little of what you want but its guaranteed you would get what you want, the percentages depends on the stud his genotype compared to that sire in which you so like. 30/70-50/50-20/80~so on.. Yes it is very easy to recreate old traits and hold them as a conformation and mental generality of what you produce further.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Firehazard said:


> To find a dog that has that direct dog as close to sire as possible or a dog that is like say a 2nd cousin to your dog sharing the same ancestor. But variables are part of genetics, thats life... You will get either alot of what you want or little of what you want but its guaranteed you would get what you want, the percentages depends on the stud his genotype compared to that sire in which you so like. 30/70-50/50-20/80~so on.. Yes it is very easy to recreate old traits and hold them as a conformation and mental generality of what you produce further.


The bitch is bred pretty tight on one blood line with a couple out crosses.
She maintains good type but is a little smaller than I like --but the right size for hunting--75-78 lbs.
The male was studded out many many times but to find an inbred male off of him will be tricky.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I tried hahaha


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> I tried hahaha


I dont think it is impossible....just tricky since dogo people are very tight with their good dogs.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Sampsons Dad said:


> The bitch is bred pretty tight on one blood line with a couple out crosses.
> She maintains good type but is a little smaller than I like --but the right size for hunting--75-78 lbs.
> The male produced many many studs for people but to find a very inbred male off of him will be tricky.


I hear ya'... :roll: 
Well of course then, Look for lungs and mouth, on a good worker that is heavily bred another way but promotes all the qualities you look for, pick the biggest most driven gyp and wash it around in your stock. Thats the only way to single out a trait your looking for in your dam, The other way is to pick a male of such quality and shoot him to your dam, then back to the gyp w/the most like qualities desired, from that you will have some fire if your looking for the kind of working quality I think you are. Either way you will have a 40-80% chance of getting what your looking for, however you should watch peds and genotypes, to see whats consistant w/what. Because its possible to find a good relative such as in APBTS the Mayday~Tants Ch Yellow stuff.. I read an interview argument between the two men on matching the same stuff, then on weight, good read. But Im sure there are dogos of the same stuff w/a different name and a little different look.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Firehazard said:


> I hear ya'... :roll:
> Well of course then, Look for lungs and mouth, on a good worker that is heavily bred another way but promotes all the qualities you look for, pick the biggest most driven gyp and wash it around in your stock. Thats the only way to single out a trait your looking for in your dam, The other way is to pick a male of such quality and shoot him to your dam, then back to the gyp w/the most like qualities desired, from that you will have some fire if your looking for the kind of working quality I think you are. Either way you will have a 40-80% chance of getting what your looking for, however you should watch peds and genotypes, to see whats consistant w/what. Because its possible to find a good relative such as in APBTS the Mayday~Tants Ch Yellow stuff.. I read an interview argument between the two men on matching the same stuff, then on weight, good read. But Im sure there are dogos of the same stuff w/a different name and a little different look.


I see a lot of pit bull peds that show certain dogs like Jeep several times in the ped. I wish people would learn from the old school more. Now there are people constantly talking against breeders that line breed and inbreed. To me there is no way to maintain consistent type unless a breeder utilizes inbreeding carefully. The only thing I wonder about is how often should a person use completely unrelated dogs when looking to out cross.

Then of course there are tons of people paper hanging  so you have to evaluate the dog in front of you just as diligently as you scrutinize the pedigrees.

Am I right?


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