# What will these bloodlines make?



## KingL (May 7, 2018)

If the dad is watchdog, gotti, razors edge, TNT, greyline...... and the mom is watchdog, klassic k9, TNT, julz. Both registered Abda 

Will a puppy from this litter be any good? 






The mom


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

They will produce more bullies, as that’s what they are not APBT. 


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

DynamicDuo said:


> They will produce more bullies, as that's what they are not APBT.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will it be good dogs? Is it worth money?


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

[/QUOTE]

Will it be good dogs? Is it worth money?[/QUOTE]

That's subjective but imo no. And no not worth the money at all...


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

Will it be good dogs? Is it worth money?[/QUOTE]

That's subjective but imo no. And no not worth the money at all...[/QUOTE]

Why not? I really dont know anything about bloodlines.


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

There's a whole nother thread about those exact lines going on. You can read it and it would explain my stance. I wouldn't feed those dogs if you bought them, the feed, and paid all my bills. They aren't worht it to me.


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

It's just a scatter bred American Bully. If you're just looking for a pet, you'd get the same kind of puppy from the pound.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Like the others that have chimed in, not worth the money and the rest depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re just looking for a pet, go to a rescue or shelter. If you’re looking for a certain dog, these are most likely not what you’re looking for. 


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

These are not the Bullies you're looking for.- Obie Wan (if he were into dogs)


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

EckoMac said:


> These are not the Bullies you're looking for.- Obie Wan (if he were into dogs)


Why aren't they?


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

Bulldoggin' said:


> There's a whole nother thread about those exact lines going on. You can read it and it would explain my stance. I wouldn't feed those dogs if you bought them, the feed, and paid all my bills. They aren't worht it to me.


So the person is just ripping people off?


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

DynamicDuo said:


> Like the others that have chimed in, not worth the money and the rest depends on what you're looking for. If you're just looking for a pet, go to a rescue or shelter. If you're looking for a certain dog, these are most likely not what you're looking for.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just want a certain color coat. Build, and gender from a early age and this person guarantees that I just want a pet...I dont want a abused dog in the pound that could turn...


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Oh boy. Gender is easy. Getting a dog based on color is a bad idea. And yes these people are BYB most likely and definitely ripping people off if they’re pushing their dogs as something other than run of the mill bullies. 


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

You can get the same shit for $100 on hoobly... or the pound for close to free since these $700 pups turn into $100 hoobly pups when they don't move and the bitch comes in heat again.


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

Puppies in the pound are not abused. They are puppies.
The dogs you asked about are clearly just being bred to sell puppies for money. They are just back yard bred dogs. The exact same kind of puppies you find in the pound. They couldn't be sold and the family doesn't want to keep feeding them. They go to the pound. 
You asked us if they were worth $700, you've had 3 different experienced (albeit in different aspects) bull breed owners tell you they aren't worth it. 
$700 is a good price for a responsibly well bred dog. That's not what the dogs you posted about are. So again, no, they are not worth $700. Also, anyone who breeds for color should be avoided, regardless of the breed.


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

EckoMac said:


> Puppies in the pound are not abused. They are puppies.
> The dogs you asked about are clearly just being bred to sell puppies for money. They are just back yard bred dogs. The exact same kind of puppies you find in the pound. They couldn't be sold and the family doesn't want to keep feeding them. They go to the pound.
> You asked us if they were worth $700, you've had 3 different experienced (albeit in different aspects) bull breed owners tell you they aren't worth it.
> $700 is a good price for a responsibly well bred dog. That's not what the dogs you posted about are. So again, no, they are not worth $700. Also, anyone who breeds for color should be avoided, regardless of the breed.


I dont want to seem like I'm not hearing you guys. I know you guys know more than me and I trust your answer. This guy is local and I dont have to order off line and all the ones at the pound look weird and are a little older. These will have its papers and all for 700. All the dogs look healthy. So these puppies dont look good? I should just not get one?


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

Bulldoggin' said:


> You can get the same shit for $100 on hoobly... or the pound for close to free since these $700 pups turn into $100 hoobly pups when they don't move and the bitch comes in heat again.


Just checked hoobly all of the pups was from 700 to 1600 without gaurented papers plus want local. I'm sure a few of you probably paid 2000 or more for your pups but I dont have that type of money right now. But I get what you're saying.


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

I wouldn't pay 700 for a pup let alone 2000 and the other 2 have shelter mutts.... 

It's your money do whatever you want with it...


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

You clearly want us to tell you to go for it. It’s your money and you’re going to do what you want. There is no way to tell just by looking at them how healthy they are. Their papers are going to be wrong anyway as they’re not APBT; that shouldn’t matter anyway if you just want a pet. I wouldn’t spend that money on a BYB pup of any breed. 

There are plenty of rescues out there since you seem to have something against shelter pups. Many rescues health and temperament test pups before they adopt them out, which is what you should be concerned with - not gender or especially not color. 

Honestly I’m getting the feeling there’s a lot more to this that you’re not saying. Do what you want but when you buy one of these dogs do us all a favor and have them fixed. 


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

DynamicDuo said:


> You clearly want us to tell you to go for it. It's your money and you're going to do what you want. There is no way to tell just by looking at them how healthy they are. Their papers are going to be wrong anyway as they're not APBT; that shouldn't matter anyway if you just want a pet. I wouldn't spend that money on a BYB pup of any breed.
> 
> There are plenty of rescues out there since you seem to have something against shelter pups. Many rescues health and temperament test pups before they adopt them out, which is what you should be concerned with - not gender or especially not color.
> 
> ...


I dont want you to say that. I just don't understand. How can the person have papers if they are fake and has had and does have a big clientele all around the us? How has nobody complained? At the same time I tried adopting places. They want to come look at your house, talk to your land lord, want you to go to their vet. That's too much bs. When I could pay 700 any color, gender. Build i want. The person is a legit smart individual and has a vast clientele all over America? The person let you get the dogs untill they test the temperament, and eating living habits.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

A good dog is where you find it. If you picked one out and you truely feel it will make a good pet then go for it . It's a lot of money but I've seen worse go for more. Spay or neuter it and give up on the fact that you'll make your money back on puppies when it's old enough. Being scattered bred means it will not add anything to any blood that will improve the bully lines that are well established and have all the quirks worked out. In fact there's no consistency left in the parents to even know how the pup will turn out. 
I know how it is when it's time to get a dog, we tend to grab what's available locally and a available right now. I looked for 8 years before I got my American bully and traveled far for the right dog. I couldn't be happier


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

redog said:


> A good dog is where you find it. If you picked one out and you truely feel it will make a good pet then go for it . It's a lot of money but I've seen worse go for more. Spay or neuter it and give up on the fact that you'll make your money back on puppies when it's old enough. Being scattered bred means it will not add anything to any blood that will improve the bully lines that are well established and have all the quirks worked out. In fact there's no consistency left in the parents to even know how the pup will turn out.
> I know how it is when it's time to get a dog, we tend to grab what's available locally and a available right now. I looked for 8 years before I got my American bully and traveled far for the right dog. I couldn't be happier


Yeah man. I dont want her to have any pups. Not trying to make my money back or get into that. I just want a good bully in the cheapest way. Yeah I could find someone that's selling them for 150 but they wouldn't have papers. Even though the puppy will have 6 different blood lines the papers will still be there. Now I dont want a dog out of the shelter or adaption either due to the fact like I said they hound people who want a pet. It's not the dogs fault but that makes you not even want to deal with "you're not holy enough to have this dog" type of people. I met the person and they had all good dogs they paid 5000 a piece for and that's where these pups are coming from. But only selling for 700. The dogs that was there was the most nicest dogs ever. There was 4 of us and all of the dogs would lick your hand. No temper at all. I know the type of person who is just getting random dogs and doesn't know what bloodlines they are and selling them too early with no papers. That's not who this person is very professional. I know I should wait for the perfect dog like you did, but i know in line I'm going to want at least 3 pits. I would much rather learn and do good with this little one than spend a shit load on my first one.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Well there's another red flag... nobody pays $5000 for a bully. I have a lil Ro clone for 1500....(damn I was supposed to tell everybody I paid the breeder 5000 for him)


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Why do you care so much about papers for a pet? Papers only matter if you’re showing, breeding, or participating in some type of dog sport like weight pull or agility or something like that. 

Not to mention there is nothing saying the papers aren’t fake to begin with. Lots of BYB’s peddle fake papers to make more buck off their mutts to unsuspecting buyers such as yourself. 

You’ll be extremely hard pressed to find a young puppy with a “temper”. I have DA issues with my male mutt and they just started recently and he’s almost two. And my dogs are far from ever having been abused. There’s no way of knowing true temperament until they’re older. 

You want three “pits”? I would strongly suggest against that. First off the only out is the American Pit Bull Terrier, which these dogs are not. They are not “pits” they are American Bullies. 

Like we’ve all told you, the dogs aren’t worth that kind of money but as long as you’re not going to breed and have the pup fixed it’s your money and if it’s what you want than by all means. 

What’s the name of the kennel if they are so well known and have customers all over the US? The whole thing seems sketchy to me and I personally wouldn’t go near it. But then again, if you’re on the up and up and truly want to give a needy pup a good home, I see no problems “jumping through the hoops”. 

This whole thing seems sketchy but for the love of the dogs, PLEASE DON’T BREED and have whatever dog you get fixed ASAP.


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

DynamicDuo said:


> Why do you care so much about papers for a pet? Papers only matter if you're showing, breeding, or participating in some type of dog sport like weight pull or agility or something like that.
> 
> Not to mention there is nothing saying the papers aren't fake to begin with. Lots of BYB's peddle fake papers to make more buck off their mutts to unsuspecting buyers such as yourself.
> 
> ...


Why would you suggest against that? I've got already 10 friends in my life with more than 3 and they treat them very well. And are loving and nice to anyone that come in the house or yard. Yes if you want to get technical I know bullies aren't pits but they have apbt in them. Now with that said. Doesn't every dog have different bloodlines except for the most expensive ones? I care about the paperwork because I want to know what my dog is and I go to the vet that the person uses. If you think about it 700 isn't a lot for a pup.


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

redog said:


> Well there's another red flag... nobody pays $5000 for a bully. I have a lil Ro clone for 1500....(damn I was supposed to tell everybody I paid the breeder 5000 for him)


My bad 3000. Nobody pays 5000 for a bully? Go on facebook and find the best breeders and message them and ask how much for one.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

The best breeders won’t be found on Facebook


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

KingL said:


> DynamicDuo said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you care so much about papers for a pet? Papers only matter if you're showing, breeding, or participating in some type of dog sport like weight pull or agility or something like that.
> ...


I got some of the purest butkus blood around just given to me... And those are exponentially more valuable than any bully ever bred. Got other dog of similar value just given to me also. So no the "purest" and "best" isn't more expensive. The best and most valuable come from people you have a deep history with and a lot of experience with the line.

You've made up your mind and then came here for validation, didn't get it so keep coming up with reasons we're wrong and you know best. This is pointless for all sides.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

If you know anything about these dogs, especially the APBT, then you should know EXACTLY why I said that. I think you’re looking to become just another BYB yourself, if you aren’t one already. Vets don’t care where you got your dog or what you paid for them or if they’re papered or not. And as scatter bred as these dogs are you have no idea what you’re getting even with your beloved papers. 

I’m not going to get into an argument about these dogs with an unarmed man. I think you’re utterly ridiculous and have no idea what you’re doing. You’ve now been told about the red flags and ridiculousness of your thoughts and logic by four people who know what they’re talking about, some of which have far more experience and knowledge with and about these dogs than you, all your friends and your fancy Facebook breeder friends combined. 




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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

DynamicDuo said:


> If you know anything about these dogs, especially the APBT, then you should know EXACTLY why I said that. I think you're looking to become just another BYB yourself, if you aren't one already. Vets don't care where you got your dog or what you paid for them or if they're papered or not. And as scatter bred as these dogs are you have no idea what you're getting even with your beloved papers.
> 
> I'm not going to get into an argument about these dogs with an unarmed man. I think you're utterly ridiculous and have no idea what you're doing. You've now been told about the red flags and ridiculousness of your thoughts and logic by four people who know what they're talking about, some of which have far more experience and knowledge with and about these dogs than you, all your friends and your fancy Facebook breeder friends combined.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


First of all I haven't insulted anyone on here. Second I admitted you guys knew me than me. Third how am i a byb when i dont know anything? And I've clearly stated I just want a pet. 4th. I'm not going to insult you or give you the time of day because yes you are probably double my age and you've had more time to have a dog. I came here to learn and ask a question. Just joined. Haven't insulted any of you. I'm just going by you guys would rather someone adopt a dog. I said I dont want to deal with that. End of discussion. Dont try to label me as something I'm not. You need to check yourself and your ego.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

I think I just got called old! 

Anyway everyone here, me included, is here to help and answer questions of those who want to learn. You don’t want to learn you want to be told you’re right and validated or you wouldn’t keep arguing with all the people telling you and trying to teach you something. 

I wasn’t insulting you, or at least not intending to, but your arguments against what we’re telling you are ridiculous. If you truly want to learn, listen to what those trying to tell you and teach you say, especially when it’s multiple people telling you the same thing. 

If you want to buy a dog have at it. No ones saying you can’t or shouldn’t. We just simply said your money would be better spent on a better dog and that these dogs are not all that you seem to think they are; you could get the same quality, papers or not, from a shelter or rescue. 

If you want to take the easier route and just pay than go for it. But remember, taking the path of least resistance when it comes to all things dog related from purchasing to training to feeding won’t lead you (or especially the dog) anywhere good. 


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a dog. What we are saying is, don't buy one of those dogs. Buy a better dog. Go to some local ABKC shows and meet people there. Put your hands on some dogs. Ask how they're bred. Ask what kennel they come out of. 
You will find a better quality dog that meets the standard of the breed and is papered.


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## KingL (May 7, 2018)

DynamicDuo said:


> I think I just got called old!
> 
> Anyway everyone here, me included, is here to help and answer questions of those who want to learn. You don't want to learn you want to be told you're right and validated or you wouldn't keep arguing with all the people telling you and trying to teach you something.
> 
> ...





EckoMac said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a dog. What we are saying is, don't buy one of those dogs. Buy a better dog. Go to some local ABKC shows and meet people there. Put your hands on some dogs. Ask how they're bred. Ask what kennel they come out of.
> You will find a better quality dog that meets the standard of the breed and is papered.


I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I did hear you alls advice and I'm going to not get it. What all is wrong with dogs like these though? Will they go crazy, turn, eat everything, have really bad health problems? What could bad breeds turn out to be just for future notice. Thank you.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

I apologize if I came across as harsh, I was frustrated because it seemed you didn’t want to hear what we were saying and argue agains us and there were some outside influences that put me in a crappy mood. 

There could be absolutely nothing wrong with these dogs or they could have health or temperament problems. There’s really absolutely no way to know. I think the point that we were trying to make is that they are way overpriced and not worth $700. If you are willing to spend that kind of money on a dog, you can purchase a better bred dog with a much stronger likelihood of stable temperament and health. If you’re not worried about the breeding of the dog, you can find a similar dog for much cheaper. 

There’s also a very high likelihood based on what you’ve said, that the breeder of these dogs is not being honest with you and that is a red flag that could absolutely affect the dogs in any number of ways. Two of my three came from a BYB before they dumped them in a shelter. They made all kinds of claims about these dogs. Knowing what I know, I knew what I was getting (and what I wasn’t) when I rescued the pups. There is no doubt about it that they are mutts but there is absolutely some APBT blood in them. In less than two years (they will be two in June) they’ve cost me probably over 10k in medical issues. They’ve both got congenital kidney issues and my female has ADL in her front. The people who “bred” these dogs offered me “papers” which I declined as I knew they were fake. Their issues are entirely due to poor breeding practices and there was absolutely no way to know when I got them that these problems would arise. 

Papers are nice and all but there is absolutely zero guarantee with papers either. They are very easy to fake and unless you know how to read them they are completely useless to you. Just because a dog has papers doesn’t mean it will be healthy or stable nor does it mean those papers are legit. Even same of the most famous breeders of legendary dogs faked pedigrees and papers. 






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## Hypercane (Aug 22, 2017)

Some of those lines were around before the bully movement started, like watchdog and TNT. I have more to say... will post again tonight.


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## Hypercane (Aug 22, 2017)

Hypercane said:


> Some of those lines were around before the bully movement started, like watchdog and TNT. I have more to say... will post again tonight.


In my opinion, when certain bloodlines started to take different paths causing a different style in this breed, A concrete standard went out the window. This breed, the American Bully, the Chihuahua (I am sure there are other breeds too) have a few different standards depending on the registries. American Staffordshire Terrier bloodlines can be seen in *some* of our APBTs if you go back far enough, even if there is just one. Does this make them an Am staff or Am Bully? No (your gamebred dogmen will disagree with this  ). Now, to me, anything with RE or Gotti is an American Bully because the line was created bringing other breeds into it, even though most will be registered as APBT because it took almost 20 years for it to be recognized as it own breed.

So, to answer your question... Put aside the bloodlines and look at the parents and ancestors. Is that what you like? Is there a dog in the ped you don't like? Have the parents been health tested? Does the breeder compete or show his dogs? For me, there are a lot of factors that go into buying a dog. I will NEVER pay more then 1500. for a pup that came from 2 pet parents. I have paid 1500, because of the bloodlines that can be traced back.

It is always good to hear peoples opinions and you learn a lot from them, but at the end of the day, you have to do what works for you.. what do you want?



Kathleen
Tropical Winds Kennel


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

Hypercane said:


> Hypercane said:
> 
> 
> > Some of those lines were around before the bully movement started, like watchdog and TNT. I have more to say... will post again tonight.
> ...


Crossing and breed (yes even Once) makes mutts not apbt.. Funny the people who dedicate their life to the preservation of the dogs will say they're mutts am staffs and bullys but the people so buy breed and peddle that trash think it's perfectly ok and those people(real dogmen) are wrong. Good things facts don't deal with emotions. They're mutts. And anyone who bred(s) them should've been laughed out of business not able to pimp those horrible bred mutts into popularity.


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

After reading "tropical winds" mission statement it reads like a bully breeders opening page. Swogger and dagger lines? Kim didn't run down dagger and tell you they were mutts when you paid way too much for her dog? I'm surprised. She ran down anything but those Castillo things.

Anyway the site and lines verified my beliefs.


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## LoneStarKennels98 (Jun 14, 2018)

I would not get but then again I raise pits not bullies


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