# Blue Nose with Red Nose Female



## mokoa (Jun 10, 2009)

It is safe the breed a blue with a red. It there any defects that that can happen? Has anyone tried and has insight? Thanks for responding. Im getting asked to breed my boy with a red.


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

No defects because of the colors, but there may be genetic ones. Is there something specific you are trying to get out of this litter? To try and make sure there are no defects both parents must have health testing done. Not just regular vet checkups, but x rays and blood work. I'm sure more people will give you more info.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

If you have to ask then you probably should not be breeding. Do you have any titles on your dog? Have you done any health tests? What makes your dog worthy of breeding? You should not be asking about color you should be looking at pedigrees and seeing if the dogs will compliment each other.
Are you prepared for the costs of breeding? Do you have a male or female? If you have the bitch you are looking at many costs involved in breeding the right way. Are you prepared for a 3,000 vet bill if your bitch has to have a c-section? What about the costs of just taking proper care of a litter? Is your dog ever registered with the ADBA or UKC? What about the other dog your breeding to is that dog registered or have accurate pedigrees? Do you know dogs can carry STD's like humans? Have you had both dogs tested for Brucellosis? Do you even know what that is?

I ask all these questions because these are only some of the things you have to consider when you are thinking about breeding.

I just whelped a litter and I can tell you I am not making any money and I will be out at least $600 or so by the time it is all said and done. I had to break open the sacks and help the puppies breath and tie off cords because the mother was not going to do it. Do you know how to do that or have someone that will help you that know what they are doing? Oh yeah I also have to stimulate them to pee and poop several times a day because mother again will not do it. If you had to can you stay home all day and take care of puppies?

Breeding is a bigger undertaking than many ppl think. Most people who breed are not breeders they are what we call back yard breeders because they lack the education to breed the correct way and for the right reasons.
So based on your question what would separate you from a back yard breeder?

Here is 7 hours of whelping puppies condensed to just 7 mins, still think you might want to breed?


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> If you have to ask then you probably should not be breeding. Do you have any titles on your dog? Have you done any health tests? What makes your dog worthy of breeding? You should not be asking about color you should be looking at pedigrees and seeing if the dogs will compliment each other.
> Are you prepared for the costs of breeding? Do you have a male or female? If you have the bitch you are looking at many costs involved in breeding the right way. Are you prepared for a 3,000 vet bill if your bitch has to have a c-section? What about the costs of just taking proper care of a litter? Is your dog ever registered with the ADBA or UKC? What about the other dog your breeding to is that dog registered or have accurate pedigrees? Do you know dogs can carry STD's like humans? Have you had both dogs tested for Brucellosis? Do you even know what that is?
> 
> I ask all these questions because these are only some of the things you have to consider when you are thinking about breeding.
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Rondacker (Jan 12, 2010)

gamer said:


> :goodpost:


Ditto:goodpost:
That video is amazing! God bless you!


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## ImPeCcAbLePiT$ (Apr 11, 2010)

Just outta curiosity, what did the mother do on the first pup, since the vid was edited I was wondering if you gave her the opportunity to do it herself after the first one? It looked very professional. Awesome!! And beautiful pups. 

To the post...I herd just the opposite from my dogs breeder, that the better bet is to breed blue to red and that its blue to blue that will possibly come out with defects, but I think it depends on what your trying to get out of it. I haven't seen or herd that defect thing from anyone else. However since its two blue's I see how it could be a problem.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

You could be right impecable... My only reservation on it all is this... both blue and red are diluted genes aka it means that they are both recessive. When you breed recessive to recessive it increases your chances of health defects... does that mean you'll double up on possible health issues, have a healthier litter because what one is missing the other has? Sounds like a crap shoot to me to be honest. I do need to be a stickler here though... you should really know what health issues follow your actual particular dogs (knowing the dogs medical history for the last 3-4 generations at least on both dogs being put together to breed, IMO).


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## mokoa (Jun 10, 2009)

I have papers on my dogs and papers on the female. Didnt want all your other comments about breedng that not what i asked you.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

mokoa said:


> I have papers on my dogs and papers on the female. Didnt want all your other comments about breedng that not what i asked you.


If you dont want to learn I suggest you find a new forum, we do not approve of back yard breeding, having papers does not a make a dog a good candidate to be bred. Breeding litters of pups from untitled dogs with no goal in mind other than money or some sort of "coolness" is what fill up shelters and leads to thousands of pit bulls being euthanized before they ever got a chance to live. Ignorantly producing pups just fuels the fires of the people campaigning to get BSL pushed. If you arent responsible enough to work your dogs, and breed for purpose, you probably arent responsible enough to own any dog, let alone an APBT. Do us all a favor and look up your local petfinder, and count the homeless pitties on death row.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

mokoa said:


> I have papers on my dogs and papers on the female. Didnt want all your other comments about breedng that not what i asked you.


Yeah, it always sucks being told we're doing the wrong thing, but sometimes we need to hear it. You're breeding a recessive trait (rednose) to a recessive dilution trait (blue). So yes, if you don't know what you're doing, you can produce some health issues. Not to mention dysplasia, skin issues, and all the other things that the APBT has problems with. Papers are only useful if you do something with them and if they're from a legitmate registry, and they're never a good sole reason to do a breeding. I've got papers in my bathroom, but that doesn't mean they're worth anything except for wiping my butt.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

mokoa said:


> I have papers on my dogs and papers on the female. Didnt want all your other comments about breedng that not what i asked you.


This is a public forum if you cannot take the fact that ppl are concerned about back yard breeders then I suggest you take your questions else where. Like Lindsay said ppl never like to hear they are doing the wrong thing and getting defensive about just prove my point about you being a back yard breeder. If you knew what your doing and just had a simple question you would have answered the other questions many of us asked but instead you got defensive and just proved you have no business breeding dogs.



bahamutt99 said:


> I've got papers in my bathroom, but that doesn't mean they're worth anything except for wiping my butt.


:rofl: God isn't that the TRUTH


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## mokoa (Jun 10, 2009)

Its obvious that you guys like to hear yourselves talk. It was a question that was asked for just wanting to know the outcome. As you know your opinion means nothing along with mine. Question for you smart people for people who choose to start there own kennels where do the start. I would think backyard and then grow from there, I sure all the top breeders didn't start with top notch kennels and equipment it built up to that wheter the business was took over by them or they started it themselves. So don't think your the only ones that cares about the breed and you a so knowledgable. Thanks again for nothing


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## ImPeCcAbLePiT$ (Apr 11, 2010)

Exactly Mokoa. This whole breeding thing is ridiculous. I understand having strong opinion about something, but that doesn't mean you can attack someone over a question. It was a question!!!! That is a major problem with forums, byb's ask questions before breeding and get attacked, the results of that is..."Back Yard Breeders" that don't know Sh*t and end up having regrets about even bothering to find out in the first place, which completely negates the point that the "higher than thou" are trying to get across. If this person didn't care and just wanted to breed to breed they never would have asked in the first place. So lets step back for a second and think before we post and remember why we are at a pitbull forum. That is not protecting the breed.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

You can learn by going to events and finding a mentor, no breeding should start in a backyard off of knowledge gleaned from forums. If you do not work to better the breed, you should not breed. You need to put in as much as you expect to get back. Enjoy your ignorance while it lasts, once you learn that a pup you produced and are responsible for has been put down after a miserable life because you chose to bring more puppies into the world, maybe you won't sleep so well, or feel so smug. The attitude that asking questions on a forum can make you a good breeder makes me ill. Get off your couch, work your dogs, go to shows, and meet people and learn first hand. If you are at all curious where BYB pups end up, maybe someone can post the photo of the pile of dead pits outside the shelter, I see it all the time on forums and CL.


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## ImPeCcAbLePiT$ (Apr 11, 2010)

Yea but you need to realize that, that is not going to happen in this lifetime. People are going to breed regardless and they are going to be bybs. It sucks (and I don't agree with it)...but it is what it is, so you might as well do as much as you can to make sure that you can help the situation be as good as possible. Otherwise you had a hand in the bs yourself! Most will never take the time to get off the couch, so be happy that they atleast might take the time to ask questions on a forum. I live in New Orleans and I know for myself that ppl don't care about med testing and all that around here and most other places its do first ask questions later. So why would you attack someone that is trying to learn as much as they can before committing the deed? You should congratulate that person for being responsible enough to even go that far, considering how many bybs aren't responsible.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

This thread did not start out attacking him it was asking questions about his planned breeding. If he does not want to discuss what it takes to be a breeder then maybe he should not be breeding. And no not all breeders start off as BYB's, You can have your first litter but be well educated in what your doing. That is why I asked questions and gave you things to think about before you breed. While I maybe didn't sugar coat things like he wanted to hear they are all valid points. I have been sleep deprived with a sick dog and new litter and why my Patience is thin these days but still all valid point and things to consider when breeding. This member can take it or leave it but the bottom line is getting defensive and not willing to discuss the matter only shows ignorance and arrogance.

Again instead of looking at color you should be looking at pedigree's for compatibility.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

mokoa said:


> Question for you smart people for people who choose to start there own kennels where do the start. I would think backyard and then grow from there, I sure all the top breeders didn't start with top notch kennels and equipment it built up to that wheter the business was took over by them or they started it themselves.


You start by buying some top-notch dogs and doing something with them. Take them out and show them, win ribbons, compete in working events, study pedigrees, get yourself known as being a person with the breed's right interests. *Later* you breed. You don't start by breeding your pets. Beginning with breeding sub-par dogs using sub-par ethics doesn't mean you will get good with time. It just means you're starting off on the wrong foot and will have to work uphill the whole way.

I was a flat newb to all this show dog stuff and went to a really good kennel for a dog. I did a bunch of stuff with that dog and spayed her. I'm still putting titles on her, even though she's "worthless" as a breeding animal. Now my young dog who is out at a show this weekend while I have to stay home, she may be bred. Time will tell on that one. But in the intervening 3-4 years, she's got some work to do and so do I. I don't just throw her in with a stud and figure I can do all the legwork after. That's putting the cart before the horse.

I know you think you already know the answer, but it'd be nice if you'd listen to the majority who want to see the breed propagated for the right reasons. Don't just listen those that want puppies for their own reasons; they'll tell you whatever you want to hear to get your "services." Its those that have no vested interest in you yourself and your dogs that will tell you the truth with no compunctions.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

ImPeCcAbLePiT$ said:


> Yea but you need to realize that, that is not going to happen in this lifetime. People are going to breed regardless and they are going to be bybs. It sucks (and I don't agree with it)...but it is what it is, so you might as well do as much as you can to make sure that you can help the situation be as good as possible. Otherwise you had a hand in the bs yourself! Most will never take the time to get off the couch, so be happy that they atleast might take the time to ask questions on a forum. I live in New Orleans and I know for myself that ppl don't care about med testing and all that around here and most other places its do first ask questions later. So why would you attack someone that is trying to learn as much as they can before committing the deed? You should congratulate that person for being responsible enough to even go that far, considering how many bybs aren't responsible.


I do realize this, but it is our responsibility as current bulldog owners to encourage spaying and neutering to dogs that obviously are not breeding quality. You can't make everyone spay and neuter, but on the same hand you can encourage someone towards rescue dogs. Also, if you're a breeder yourself, you're supposed to keep the best out of the litter for yourself... sooo if that means you have one good pup that fits the bill, keep it, keep it unaltered to be a prospect, but never get your hopes up on a puppy because often times they don't turn out the way you were expecting as it matures... health, temperament, and drive. Puppies that you see that do not fit within the breed standard... spay and neuter it before it leaves your possession. Always sell puppies and dogs on a contract to ensure a quality home... if the home breaks the contract you can repossess the dog/puppy and help one more pit bull from a miserable life or hitting the news headlines.



mokoa said:


> Its obvious that you guys like to hear yourselves talk. It was a question that was asked for just wanting to know the outcome. As you know your opinion means nothing along with mine. Question for you smart people for people who choose to start there own kennels where do the start. I would think backyard and then grow from there, I sure all the top breeders didn't start with top notch kennels and equipment it built up to that wheter the business was took over by them or they started it themselves. So don't think your the only ones that cares about the breed and you a so knowledgable. Thanks again for nothing


I didn't respond with my previous post just to watch myself type on this computer. I'm being serious & sincere here. Just a few years ago (around 6) I had the same motives as you with these dogs. I had the same train of thought as you... it's about the equipment, not yourself nor your dogs (as a whole). Boy,... 7 years into this breed, 7 dogs deep... I tell you what! lol This has been the best resource for all of your bulldog needs throughout his/her entire life. I know some of us come across brass here, but it's because all of our hearts are all in the same place... IDK where you live OP, but I live in Florida. Florida, a state that is one of the only 15 remaining state in the United States of America which does not have breed specific legislation with the exception of one county. I went through a real shocker just a few months ago... a bill was placed before the Senate which was to pass a law that allowed BSL to be put in place... and I had to worry not only about my dogs, but everyone elses dogs in this state.

Listen, I'm not here to ride your butt, or lecture this and that, I'm here to share my experiences with you. I will never pretend to be a know it all, because I don't know if that will ever happen, not because of my lack of thirst for knowledge, but rather because there is such a vast history with this breed... When breeding it's not just about throwing two dogs together, when it is done right it's about the science of it all, trying to create a better dog within a litter for yourself, not for anyone else. You nor I cannot even begin to fathom how much crud you have to learn to do it right... and by right I'm talking about genetics. Its more than just color, pedigree, temperaments, confirmation... I honestly get pretty overwhelmed when I think about having a litter... Since being here for so long, and meeting the wonderful helpful people along the way, even the grouchy know it alls that offer tid bits of info while they're on their soap box talking down to me... I learned to filter out that BS talking down crud, and only absorbed the useful stuff... as time went on, I found out that even the things i thought were boring last year because it didn't pertain to me, pertained to me this year.

It's not about physical equipment, having the best kennel set up, chain set up, the most leashes, collars, dog food bowls ect... it's about the equipment you'll carry in your head.. knowledge. I'm not just talking about knowledge about breeding (genetics, finding a mate, let alone making sure your personal dog is worthy of breeding)... There are things that you may not think are necessary today like i said before, and you need to know how to problem solve which is why this place is such a vital tool to me.

Things that I have learned here in a synopsis:
*health issues* (hip/elbow dysplasia, blockages, dogs real nutritional needs, the scoop on vaccinations and what you really need, and soooo much more)
*genetics* (just touching on that one right now)
*History *
*where to bargain shop for multiple dogs*
*training *(this is ultimately the most important thing I've learned here, when housing multiple bulldogs it is necessary to have a solid foundation in training in order to give you as the owner the up most confidence in yourself and your dogs)
*competition *(confirmation, and several dog sports... I'm not pushing you to go this route, in all honesty i could give a rats behind if a dog has a title, that means nothing to me... what competition does is get the dogs out have their minds exercised by the training before and putting it to use so that your dogs do not become bored and distructive, not only to things around the house, the yard, but possibly self distruction.... which WILL happen especially the more dogs you add.)

EDIT: Baha was right on when she said that you MUST start with a quality stock coming from reputable breeders (heh another thing i learned how to find since i was here) She couldn't have worded it any better. sub par = produced sub par


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> It's not about physical equipment, having the best kennel set up, chain set up, the most leashes, collars, dog food bowls ect... it's about the equipment you'll carry in your head.. knowledge.


Muh huh. You will collect all that stuff as you go along. I have more junk than I ever need, and that's at having 3 dogs maximum at any given time. I never had a kennel unless you count the fiberglass "kennels" that we put our dogs in to travel to shows. Some would think that they have to start breeding so they can make fundage to buy their equipment they need. But the best breeders don't even sell pups publicly, but give them via private treaty to friends and people close to them. They're the ones that people beg and plead to get dogs from, and whether you love them or hate them for being so exclusive, they're usually the best ones out there. Volume and breeding every dog you have does not a quality breeder make. It doesn't even make a quality breeder in training. LOL!


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## ImPeCcAbLePiT$ (Apr 11, 2010)

:goodpost: indigo...I totally agree. The way you responded was awesome!!


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## smith family kennels (Jan 10, 2009)

bahamutt99 said:


> But the best breeders don't even sell pups publicly, but give them via private treaty to friends and people close to them. They're the ones that people beg and plead to get dogs from, and whether you love them or hate them for being so exclusive, they're usually the best ones out there. Volume and breeding every dog you have does not a quality breeder make. It doesn't even make a quality breeder in training. LOL!


exactly. Haven't breed a dog in 3 years and only produced 2 litters in 10 years. Have one breeding planned this year no pups are available to the public and they are not for sale to anyone. The pups I am not keeping will go to working kennels and homes of people I trust and really know. Been planning this breeding for two years and it has taken me almost that long just to find a stud.

To the OP:.............
the dogs you are asking about probably do not need to be bred would probably not have a good outcome not just cause of color and the traits that you have listed but also because their bloodlines probably dont match. Im not calling you out and saying that they dont im just saying that 9 times out of 10 a blue dog and a red nose dog dont have the same blood in their peds. I ask that you think long and hard before considering that match and maybe do some research on their ansters and find a good match for your dogs. Finding the perfect stud to produce a great litter takes alot of time and research. Breeders and Kennel owners usually spend years of their dogs lifes just to see if they are worthy to be bred and to find their mate. I have 9 dogs on my yard and their are only 2 I know I want to breed so far. One of them is 5 and the other will be 3 this year. My dogs range from the ages of 8 years to 20 months old. There are 3 on this yard i can tell you for a fact will never be bred and will never leave this yard.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

SFK, I just wanted to share the woes of stud-finding. LOL! I've started looking now for my way-in-the-future possibilities because its a pain in the butt trying to find just what you're looking for when you're picky. Titled, health-tested, UKC/ADBA registered, sound temperament, compatible strengths, and trying to find all that with the right bloodline... I feel like I'm looking for a unicorn.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

To the OP (and everybody else).. I will openly admit that I too started down the wrong path many years ago. Bruce, the dog in my avatar was from a BYB when I lived in Del Rio, TX. He was CKC reg'd (Continental Kennel Club, ugh!), and I got him at 6wks old for $150.00. I was new and had nowhere near the knowldege I've got now. I never did anything special with him, other than his obedience training and socialization. He was a great dog, protective of the house and family, and friendly when I needed him to be. When he was just over a year or so old, I bred him to one of my fellow service member's dogs, who was unreg'd, a white and brindle pie-bald female from another BYB in town. This woman knew nothing about dogs, other than feeding and watering them and keeping them utd on vaccines. Being that her damn wasn't reg'd at all, I went to CKC and had 2 ppl sign off that the dam *looked like *she was a purebred APBT, and the CKC issued her a reg # so that we would be able to register the pups. Well, come time for the bitch to whelp, I got a call at 430am, she had 2 pups and was in the middle of pushing out the 3rd one. I rushed down the street to go help, immediately. Thankfully, there were no major problems, and the dam was calm and knew me well enough to trust me to help her with the pups. 9 puppies later, I began working up a contract to sell the pups. I was a member of another board then, and I got flamed by everybody on there for breeding my no-good, BYB dog and was pretty much run off from that forum b/c of how they all chose to respond to me and didn't want to offer any help or advice when I needed it most. Over the course of the 8 wks after the pups were born, 4 of them were lost... I can only assume it was Parvo, as I don't know for sure. One pup was my pick, not based on anything special, just b/c I liked her looks and I brought her home at 6wks, just like I did her daddy. The other 4 pups that remained, I had to confiscate from the owner of the dam, b/c they were being left outside while she was at work and tied up to anything stable, i.e. the electric/water meters, fence posts, lawnmowers, a/c units, etc. with no food or water from 730am til 430-5pm when she got home from work. There had been several complaints against her and the base police were sent out to her house to investigate and were going to call the City A/C. I took them down to my house, and began correcting the nutritional problems as well as keeping them updated on vaccines. I ordered my own 3 and 5 way boosters and had my vet friend supervise as I administered the vax, and he signed off on all the pup's shot records and typed a letter of correspondence to verify for the base vet that they had received their vaccines. I thought I was doing all the right things by including in the contracts that the pups must be returned to me if their new owner couldn't keep them for whatever reason, as well as offering free obedience training to all ppl who took one of the pups. Of the 4 that were placed, they all turned out great. No body had any problems, they all showed up for training every week, and everyone was happy. Axil, the one I kept, turned out to be HA (human aggressive), and I had to put her down after she tried to bite one of my daughters. I've lost contact with the owner of the mother, and I neutered and placed the father in a different home after signing a contract to get a well bred, show quality male (in my sig line). He wasn't rehomed b/c he did anything wrong, he was rehomed b/c I was inexperienced and the breeder didn't feel comfortable placing my new boy with me having another male in the home. She hand-picked the pup for me, so it's not like I chose to get a male, it was what she saw as a good show prospect. Anyways, long story made short, I learned from my one experience, and have moved on. I lost more money than I made on that litter, especially having to split the sales with the owner of the dam. I provided all the medical costs and care, and she got half of the monies on each pup. We sold the males for $100 and females for $125 ea. Well, since there were only 4 pups, that didn't amount to anything after you take away the costs for medical care, feeding and upkeep. I do not intend to ever breed again, and will take all necessary precautions to prevent an accidental breeding when I have dogs of both sexes intact in my house/yard. I have no quams about leaving the breeding part to the breeder I co-own my future dogs with. Maybe later in life, my views will change and I can begin a foundation, but at this point, I have no deisre to. While I love puppies just as much as the rest of the people on this forum, I like my dogs just fine, and will coo and ooh and aah over other people's puppies, but I don't desire any of my own. Having a small child in the house keeps me busy enough when I'm not at work, so until I'm where I wanna be financially, physically and otherwise, I'll leave the breeding to the "pros". Now, with all that said, I'm not saying any two people will share the same experiences, but you can learn from others' experiences and save yourself the money, trouble and heartache! I know you'll do what you want to do with your dogs, but we're all offering great advice here. We take a more direct approach to issues like these b/c sugar-coating and beating around the bush doesn't quite get the point across to everybody. Lindsey, Shana and Lisa... excellent posts!! Your knowlegde and input are always greatly valued by myself and many other on here. No need to be apologetic. You're simply trying to educate and overcome the problems our breeds face every day.


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