# Kid aggression



## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

I have a year old pit bull male. (Hes getting fixed Thursday). Hes started to show dog aggression but not much and I can handle that however today he started showing aggression towards children. When he meets strangers that are adults and teenagers he is happy and loves them to pet him. Even on walks he loves the dogs he meets and the people. Today I was introducing him to my boyfriends new German Shepherd pup and he was fine. She would jump on me and him and he didn't once growl. He was fine and that was main thing I was worried about with him starting to get dog aggressive. But out of nowhere he started growing and barking at my boyfriends little cousin. She wasn't running or anything and he just went nuts. I never seen him so mad even with dogs he didn't like. I thought maybe she did something he didn't like so I put him up. I brought my cousins around him and he acted same way, growling and barking. But when my adult cousin came near he wagged his tail and let him pet him. I'm confused as to why he wouldn't like kids as he hasn't had negative experience around kids that I can recall.


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

Take him to the vet .. if there is no medical reason . IMHO put him down .. human aggression is never a okay thing .. now if it is fearful aggression you could possibly call a behaviorist .. but if the children are doing nothing and not paying him any attention then that doesn't sound fearful to me and its time to say goodbye.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

I've been around dogs (non-pitbull) that were people aggressive and he doesn't act the same way. I never say put a dog to sleep unless I tried everything possible. If he was flat out people aggressive then yes I would put him to sleep, but its just children. I have been in shelters that have dogs that aren't good with kids and they still get adopted into homes that don't have kids, so only issue I would see that I would have to put him to sleep is because the pitbull stereotype. I'm not an owners that pushes my dogs. If they don't like to be somewhere or around someone I don't put them in the situation. Hes not around kids unless I bring one around him. I would like to find a method first to see if I can save him instead of flat out put him to sleep. Last week I had to put an adopted dog to sleep due to distemper and though I only had him for a month I don't want to go through that again especially since I've had this one for a year.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

He only acted that way when the kids tried to get near him like get close. He wouldn't bark and growl just because the kids was where he could see because she was around the whole time but once they got close he freaked out. He wasn't seeking them out.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

he was rescued? so it is possible a child has mistreated him before and maybe he is associating all kids with that previous experience? I would have him checked out maybe work with a trainer have him temperment tested, but to me if he is only acting up when the kids come to him it sounds fear based. You may be able to work this out, helps if you are a childless home he may just not be ok with kids again , but would want to work out what I can. The only thing I worry about a dog who has fear aggression towards kids is if he ever gets out or loose and there is a kid in his way, really makes for a sad story in the news and we already seem to have enough of those with this breed. I agree with you to do what you can and see if you can right this issue, but I agree with the other post as well if he cant be trusted that is NOT a trait this breed should carry and best bet would be to PTS. Best of luck with him, I hope it works out for the best but I would get a professional on that ASAP.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

He was bought from a person thinking he was a boxer and then his wife said it was a pit bull and she made him get rid of it. I took him because no one wanted him. He was few months old I think. There is no kids in my area and I don't plan on having kids for years. With him only acting that way when they come near him I think I can train him better/keep him away from kids. If not I agree that I will have to put him to sleep. I can deal with a dog being dog aggressive but I can't have a powerful dog attacking small children.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

As for him having bad experience with children... he hasn't been around a lot of kids since I had him because everyone I know with kids is afraid of pitbulls. So it could be possible that the previous person's kids messed with him as a pup or that my little cousins did something to him when he wasn't at my house for couple of months. I'm not 100% sure so I can't count that as the issue or not the issue.


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## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

IzzosMommy said:


> Take him to the vet .. if there is no medical reason . IMHO put him down .. human aggression is never a okay thing .. now if it is fearful aggression you could possibly call a behaviorist .. but if the children are doing nothing and not paying him any attention then that doesn't sound fearful to me and its time to say goodbye.


lol my dog isn't perfect time to kill it.


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## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

aj_harness said:


> As for him having bad experience with children... he hasn't been around a lot of kids since I had him because everyone I know with kids is afraid of pitbulls. So it could be possible that the previous person's kids messed with him as a pup or that my little cousins did something to him when he wasn't at my house for couple of months. I'm not 100% sure so I can't count that as the issue or not the issue.


They have a lot of dog training classes that help with socialization. You could have a kid family member come in and feed her. Or play with her. It's all about patience and re-training them. Positive reinforcement, my friend.

Something probably did happen to her and it's your job as her owner to fix that.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanks papertissue.  I came on this site for advice and some positive feedback because when I first saw him act that way I thought oh my gosh I have to put him to sleep. If it was that easy then I would have done it already, but its not so I'm on here seeking help. I think where he hasn't had much if any kid socialization and maybe bad experience with them that I need to reverse that. I know hes a good dog because I can do more with him and get away with it than I can my other dogs (non pit) that will try to bite me just for touching their feet lol.


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## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

aj_harness said:


> Thanks papertissue.  I came on this site for advice and some positive feedback because when I first saw him act that way I thought oh my gosh I have to put him to sleep. If it was that easy then I would have done it already, but its not so I'm on here seeking help. I think where he hasn't had much if any kid socialization and maybe bad experience with them that I need to reverse that. I know hes a good dog because I can do more with him and get away with it than I can my other dogs (non pit) that will try to bite me just for touching their feet lol.


No problem hun. I'm sure once he's around a bit more kids he'll open up and learn to love them. Sometimes when I'm bored I'll walk my pit around schools just so she understand how crazy kids are sometimes. She's not socialized perfectly yet so I know where you're coming from. Everything will work out in the end if you put 100% in. Trust me.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I agree, get a behaviorist in to look at your pup before thinking about PTS. Especially if you don't have kids or have the dog near kids, I agree, I see many dogs that should not be placed in or around kids. Its about the you being a responsible owner and you never letting him fail by being around kids until you get someone to access the situation. You never know what happened before you, even though you were told, they may not have been able to watch their pup and may live next door to a hellion who would mess with your pup. It could be how the kids are approaching your pup. I would ask the vet to take a look when you get him neutered and find a behaviorist in your area to check out what they think about temperament.


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## zirandad (Apr 25, 2012)

Human aggression is never ok, especially towars children .even if they r too close.I would , as hard as it be for me to do, I would have the dog put to sleep


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

The place I'm getting him neutered isn't a vet place. It's just a spay and neuter clinic. Vet in my area told me it be like up to $175 and that's not including pain meds :|. I even called around and the prices was outrageous, but I found a discount place that it only cost $40 to get it done since I'm a college student. After he is healed up from surgery I planned to take him to a vet to make sure the surgery went okay and check his health. Then I will take your advice and ask the vet for help or referrals.


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## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

zirandad said:


> Human aggression is never ok, especially towars children .even if they r too close.I would , as hard as it be for me to do, I would have the dog put to sleep


So your saying that a dog that has been beaten and abused by humans, shows ANY signs of aggression it should be killed?

As I said before...

lol I don't want to take the time and train my dog properly so I'm going to kill it.

:snap:


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

papertissue said:


> So your saying that a dog that has been beaten and abused by humans, shows ANY signs of aggression it should be killed?
> 
> As I said before...
> 
> ...


Yeah it is weird that a pit bull site has so many people saying to kill the dog. I don't see how that would make us any better than the people at shelters killing a dog because it looks like a pit bull. I understand if I tried everything and he got worse that I might have to put him down but it shouldn't be option number one.


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## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

aj_harness said:


> Yeah it is weird that a pit bull site has so many people saying to kill the dog. I don't see how that would make us any better than the people at shelters killing a dog because it looks like a pit bull. I understand if I tried everything and he got worse that I might have to put him down but it shouldn't be option number one.


Never listen to anyone that says to kill your dog. Unless it's a veterinarian and even then get a second medical opinion.

And I really feel like that guy was trolling this forum. If he wasn't then I feel really bad for his bullies.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah I would never kill my dog just because someone told me to. I don't trust a lot of vets so I would definitely get a second opinion. If I had to kill him because hes probably afraid of kids then I'd have kill my toy poodle because he barks at strangers then runs and my dads lab/blue heeler mix because shes a guard dog in a fence that growls and barks at anyone that nears her. Shes 12-14 and shes never bit anyone because no one should approach a dog that growls and there is a beware of dog sign. Unlike my neighbors we keep our dogs on our property and supervised.


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## serendipity (Mar 24, 2012)

Adopting a child aggressive dog to a non-child home is a start. But unless you can guarantee he will not intact with children, you are dealing with a time bomb in my opinion. People visit and bring kids over, you will encounter children walking down the street. Even the most conscientiousness of dog owners have dogs occasionally slip out of their yards. Kids walk by and put their hands to a fence. The potential for disaster is there.

Having admitted that you feel the dog is aggressive towards children, you have to admit that you are always dealing with a potential accident. It is a huge responsibility, and for your sake if you chose to keep a dog like that, and for the child involved, I hope nothing ever happens. Saying it's just children does not make it okay. Personally I think that makes it worse.

I very rarely want to see a dog put down, but after seeing the results of a savage attack, I never want to see that again. I agree, try training, try a behaviorist, but if that doesn't work, please think about how devastating a dog attack can be.

Not putting a dog down because you are afraid of fueling the stereotype, leaves you with a dog that adds to the statistics that create breed bans. Forget the breed, forget the stigma. Do the best you can with the dog you have, but if need be, swallow your pride and admit that not all dogs are good dogs. It would be nice to save them all, but we can't, so choose to work on one worth keeping.



aj_harness said:


> I've been around dogs (non-pitbull) that were people aggressive and he doesn't act the same way. I never say put a dog to sleep unless I tried everything possible. If he was flat out people aggressive then yes I would put him to sleep, but its just children. I have been in shelters that have dogs that aren't good with kids and they still get adopted into homes that don't have kids, so only issue I would see that I would have to put him to sleep is because the pitbull stereotype. I'm not an owners that pushes my dogs. If they don't like to be somewhere or around someone I don't put them in the situation. Hes not around kids unless I bring one around him. I would like to find a method first to see if I can save him instead of flat out put him to sleep. Last week I had to put an adopted dog to sleep due to distemper and though I only had him for a month I don't want to go through that again especially since I've had this one for a year.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Papertissue what was said is to get her dog checked out by a vet see if there is a medical reason and then look into a trainer who can temperment test him. Then the if there is no logical reason for this and not fixable {which if it is genetic it isnt usually fixable} then putting the dog to sleep is the best bet. Human aggression is something that is NOT suppose to be found in this breed and with the stigma our breed already carries it is not needed in this breed. LAst thing we need is for something to happen where that dog gets out ( and lets be honest here there are ALOT of irresponsible dog owners out there, as well as owners in this breed . Not directed to anyone here but in general). One slip up and we all know what happens our breed is once again in the bad light in the media and people are crying to ban the breed all over again. One mistake from one dog and one owner effects us all as owners and our rights to own this breed.
Alot of temperment issues come about from unstable dogs being bred , BYB 's not knowing what they are breeding and it's genetic and not fixable, its in there genes and just how they are. SO where everyone said to get the dog checked out , it isnt always a happy ending sometimes it cant be fixed and I would rather see a dog put to sleep then to have an oops moment or to see them rehome a problem dog to someone who then has an oops moment. 
Might sound mean and harsh but in the bigger picture it is the right thing, the right thing isnt always easy to do though. Hopefully in this case it is something they can work out and not a genetic issue , but time will tell I guess.


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## serendipity (Mar 24, 2012)

aj_harness said:


> snip... no one should approach a dog that growls and there is a beware of dog sign. Unlike my neighbors we keep our dogs on our property and supervised.


You are correct. Unfortunately not all children heed beware of dog signs, even if they can read them. People shouldn't pet strange dogs, people shouldn't go into a fence with a dog. People do stupid things all the time.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

I'm not saying I wouldn't put him to sleep just saying I want to try everything I can first. I know his parents are from papered purebreds and not human aggressive or he wouldn't professionally breed them so I'm hoping knowing that its not genetic and can be fixed. However, yes I am willing to put him to sleep if need be. When he started being dog aggressive I thought about it or putting him up for adopting because I didn't know if I could handle him. But I have kept his dog aggression in control and he tolerates other dogs now. I would not want a kid to come to harm because I know right now there are no kids around or will be around him not even neighbor kids and I don't live in the city but I know one day I will move and I can't say there won't be kids around in the future. If he can't be retrained and he shows no reason for being kid aggressive then yes I will put him down because I know I can't keep him or others safe if hes alive. I understand completely about facing the facts of putting him to sleep but I want to try everything before going straight to that.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

serendipity said:


> People do stupid things all the time.


Yes, no matter how many times I tell people my dad's dog is a guard dog don't pet her especially if shes growling they still want to taunt her by getting close to her pen. Luckily those relatives don't come around no more.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Best advice that can be given to you is to have your dog fully assessed by a behaviorist and work closely with a trainer that deals in these types of situations. Take your dog out in public, but make sure you've got complete control of him. Take him to parks (if your area allows dogs at the local parks), walk him around, allow him to take in all the sights/sounds/smells of children doing what they do best, being crazy. Be mindful that children will attempt to approach you and your dog, and try to pet him with or without your permission. Be aware of your surroundings, and be vigilant. Watch his posture, his body language. If you see signs that he's uncomfortable upon a child approaching you, move away, while asking the child to please not approach you without their parent or guardian. Continue to walk away until your dog is relaxed again. Don't allow your dog to become the statistic, please. Work with him daily, starting out small, just 15 minutes at a time, working your way up to about an hour. This will take time, so be patient. If his condition doesn't improve, then you'll just have to keep him away from children all together. If he redirects his anguish toward adults, then you know what to do. Please be mindful not to baby him when he's uncomfortable (no baby talk "It's okay doggie. They're not gonna hurt you" etc.). Just move him away from the situation a few feet at a time, and when he's relaxed, praise him for a job well done. You can also work on redirecting his attention, and when he looks to you for consolation, you praise him. 

Every owner/handler deals with their own dogs differently, so please don't take offense to the members who posted recommending you euthanize him. Simply put, that is how they would deal with the situation. Not because they can't properly train their dog, but due to other contributing factors (maybe they have children of their own, and a zero tolerance policy in their house/on their yard). I myself have children, and have been in this situation, only my dog was a product of my own breeding. I owned her father before her, and a friend of mine owned her mother. She was raised in the home with my oldest daughter. She showed several warning signs along the way, nipping and biting me when being corrected or when I grab her collar to put a lead on her or guide her into her kennel. My daughter and I were outside with the dogs one day while they played, and the dogs began barking at someone walking by. My daughter (approximately 18 mos old then) was mimicking the dogs, barking and hitting the fence, and the dog I speak of turned her attention from the person walking by to my daughter in a split second, and went for her with no growl or bark whatsoever, just bared teeth. She lunged for my daughter, and I caught her just in time, and took her to the ground. I immediately kenneled her (this happened on a Friday evening) and kept her away from my daughter for the rest of the weekend. Come Monday morning, I took her to the vet clinic where I was working part time, and told my vet that I needed her euthanized. He asked why and I told him. He said "Well, I hate to put down a perfectly healthy dog, let's just adopt her out to a family with no children." I couldn't be responsible for her potentially biting someone else's child, so I refused. I told him she needed to be euthanized, and that I wasn't leaving until she was dead. So, with respect for my wishes, he got the syringe ready, I restrained her and blocked her vein for him while he administered the medicine that would end her life. I held her closely, apologized for it having to be the way it was, and kissed her as she took her last breath. I made sure she had no vital signs, and I carried her to the incinerator myself. It may sound harsh, and hard to accept or deal with, but I knew she was just an ill-tempered dog through no fault of her own, for I created her. I did everything with her, from potty training, crate training, to obedience training and socialization. She had previously been great with kids of all ages, had no issues going to a park or base-wide function where there were 100s of people in the same area. She was well behaved, and obedient. No health issues, physically, so there was nothing else I could do. Between my children and my dogs, I put my children first. This may not be the case for others, but I speak from my own experience. 

I wish you the best of luck with your dog, and I truly hope you can find a way around this and can spare his life and make it the best for him. Please keep us posted and let us know of his progress.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

Thank you ladypit for your experience, I know it was probably hard on you but I agree. If I had kids I would probably put him to sleep without even thinking about it. When he was growling at the kids my boyfriend got his attention and he stopped growling so I saw that as a good sign. However, once they tried to get close again he would freak out. Hes fine on every walk I take him on no people or dog aggression but there are no kids around. If he does get worse or even turns to adults I won't hesitate to put him to sleep. Rather him be in heaven then be on the news pretrayed as a horrible dog with a ignorant owner. I had to put a dog to sleep so I know I can do it even if I'd rather not. I could have kept him alive and just let him die slowly but I decided he deserved to quit being in pain.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Referring to my previous post, as well as others, you need to work on his socialization with children, but at a safe distance. Get to really know his personality and body language, and allow him to see/hear/smell the children, but don't allow them to come to close to the point of discomfort for him. I do have a question... does he only display this behavior to a certain age group of children, like between the ages of 5-10 yrs old? My reason for asking is to say that maybe you should work on reintroducing him to children in this age range specifically. I know you said your friends whom have children are scared of "pit bulls". Do you have any co-workers or does your boyfriend have any friends, or family members or co-workers that aren't afraid of the breed that can help you in socializing him that fit this particular description? Also, where in Kentucky are you located? Are you close to my are of TN? If you live close enough and make trips down here once in a while, I would be willing to help you work with him, and lend my children to be guinea pigs, after assessing the situation myself, if you'd like. I have a long shift at work today, so I won't be back online till tonight, so please forgive me if I don't respond in a timely manner.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

As far as I can tell its only children that are like 2-6. He don't seem bothered by children 10 and up. I live too far from TN to make the trip though I appreciate the offer . I will see if I can get someone from work or get my boyfriend to find me some kids to work with him. If I can't I planned to see if the shelter will help me out. They dealt with pitbulls a lot and have children.


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

papertissue said:


> lol my dog isn't perfect time to kill it.


Actually that is not what I said so lets make this clear .. 1, dogs that attack and bite kids are the reason in most cities pitbulls are banned. 2 I did not say that the only option was to PTS . My dog was actually fear aggressive and like I said if that is what it is he should contact a behaviorist . I'm sorry I don't believe that dogs with aggressive traits should be kept . Most people think that it can be fixed but its a sad thing to see more and more headlines on the news about dogs that are fearful, getting out and biting the kid down the street for trying to grab it and take it home . I work in animal shelters and do my part in rehabilitation . But sometimes it cannot be fixed . You own a pitbull correct ? Well dogs that are aggressive towards kids make for bad rep for our breed , and I will not apologize for wanting to preserve the breed instead of misguiding someone I have no knowledge of backround . So please next time you want to comment on someones post read the entire thing before thank you


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## papertissue (Apr 14, 2012)

IzzosMommy said:


> Actually that is not what I said so lets make this clear .. 1, dogs that attack and bite kids are the reason in most cities pitbulls are banned. 2 I did not say that the only option was to PTS . My dog was actually fear aggressive and like I said if that is what it is he should contact a behaviorist . I'm sorry I don't believe that dogs with aggressive traits should be kept . Most people think that it can be fixed but its a sad thing to see more and more headlines on the news about dogs that are fearful, getting out and biting the kid down the street for trying to grab it and take it home . I work in animal shelters and do my part in rehabilitation . But sometimes it cannot be fixed . You own a pitbull correct ? Well dogs that are aggressive towards kids make for bad rep for our breed , and I will not apologize for wanting to preserve the breed instead of misguiding someone I have no knowledge of backround . So please next time you want to comment on someones post read the entire thing before thank you


Take him to the vet .. if there is no medical reason . *IMHO put him down* .. human aggression is never a okay thing .. now if it is fearful aggression you could possibly call a behaviorist .. *but if the children are doing nothing and not paying him any attention then that doesn't sound fearful to me and its time to say goodbye.*

That's the first thing you said. And you ended your sentence with it as well. Also if you did any research on the breed you'd know that most cases of "pit bulls" biting children aren't actually pit bulls. But going off and killing a dog just because it has a few issues isn't doing anything for the breed either. Apparently the breed doesn't really mean that much to you if the first thing that comes out of your mouth is what was bolded above. So maybe instead of just saying "lol kill your dog" you should of asked more questions. Thaaaaaank you.


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

papertissue said:


> Take him to the vet .. if there is no medical reason . *IMHO put him down* .. human aggression is never a okay thing .. now if it is fearful aggression you could possibly call a behaviorist .. *but if the children are doing nothing and not paying him any attention then that doesn't sound fearful to me and its time to say goodbye.*
> 
> That's the first thing you said. And you ended your sentence with it as well. Also if you did any research on the breed you'd know that most cases of "pit bulls" biting children aren't actually pit bulls. But going off and killing a dog just because it has a few issues isn't doing anything for the breed either. Apparently the breed doesn't really mean that much to you if the first thing that comes out of your mouth is what was bolded above. So maybe instead of just saying "lol kill your dog" you should of asked more questions. Thaaaaaank you.


IzzosMommy made it clear on what she was tring to say.. people come here asking questions so they are goin to get honest opinions and answers .. 
Drop it and quit tring to cause an argument .. if people don't want to hear what others have to say then don't come on an open forum and ask them!


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I hate the "what if" police........ I'll just share a story.. I've been in dogs for 15yrs bulldogs exclusively and I bought a well bred Jeep/Redboy dog. At a year and a half she bit my son; now she was the house dog had a diamond studded collar and was really treated as well as the best kept dog. She had aggression issues like growling at people coming down the hall or in the house who lived here, until she could see them; never growled at me but did everyone else, we knew she'd bite someone someday, guess what she did. It was my oldest son who was 8 at the time and she left his arm wide open where the canines got him and perfect bite pattern of open flesh where the molars hit. I came right home and comforted my son, patched him up. Went out cried a lil while I played fetch with our family dog #2 under Hooch at that time; and as soon as I caught her extra tail waggin happy I put her down. There is one thing that is untollerable that is a CHILD biting dog. 

You take what ever precautions and chances you want; if that dog ever bites a child not only will it add to the stats it will be hell for you emotionally and fiscally and the dog will be shot probably 4-9 times by the officer on the scene. Be lucky to make to the pound for lethal injection. Play it cautious and follow all the training tips here on GPB and follow Millan to the T. If you have any doubts, handle your business.


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## destinoscelgo (Dec 28, 2011)

Holy crap I love these threads (but not really)

Okay. First off...I only read your first post, but you said the dog did not grown or "seek out" the child. Does that mean it just went to bite him or her? Unacceptable and a behavior YOU NEVER WANT IMO you want a dog who will growl, because then the dog is giving a warning "hey yeah I'm not comfortable here! Stop now!" A dog that doesn't give that warning is unpredictable at best. 

And honestly, I don't care if the dog WAS mistreated by a child. I could probably beat the piss out of my dog and she would NEVER bite me
The dog is a liability if labled dangerous. Not just dangerous to you, but dangerous to everyone else in your area (especially those who own pit bulls)

My advice is get that dog to a vet, have them check thyroids and the like, check everything. If nothing, find a *reputable* behaviorist in your area to assist you in making an informed decision. If the dog is a danger to children, put him down. It may not be easy, but it is best for everyone involved.


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

papertissue said:


> Take him to the vet .. if there is no medical reason . *IMHO put him down* .. human aggression is never a okay thing .. now if it is fearful aggression you could possibly call a behaviorist .. *but if the children are doing nothing and not paying him any attention then that doesn't sound fearful to me and its time to say goodbye.*
> 
> That's the first thing you said. And you ended your sentence with it as well. Also if you did any research on the breed you'd know that most cases of "pit bulls" biting children aren't actually pit bulls. But going off and killing a dog just because it has a few issues isn't doing anything for the breed either. Apparently the breed doesn't really mean that much to you if the first thing that comes out of your mouth is what was bolded above. So maybe instead of just saying "lol kill your dog" you should of asked more questions. Thaaaaaank you.


Okay .. this is the last post that I am going to write .. yes I DID say to put the dog down . But also in between the things you chose to bold are other options that you chose to ignore .. and it doesnt matter in the eyes of the media if the dog is a true abpt or not . Last time I checked most ordinances are from dogs that are a pitbull type dog. But does that stop them from banning our breed nope ! People like you who think that every dog should be kept and saved are the reason there is a problem today .. if a dog has HUMAN AGGRESSIVE tendencies then yes a dog should be put down . But before you go around giving advice do some research of your own .There is a Major difference between fearful aggression and just plain out human aggression ..And like I said if it is fearful it CAN BE FIXED ! It is very apparent that you have not ever read any of my prior post's . Owning a pitbull or any pitbull type dog comes with responsibility , which mean's if the dog is starting to snap at children and there is NO MEDICAL reason or NO PRIOR reason like the OP stated then the dog in my opinion should NOT be kept .. and by no means did I find humor in my post . My heart goes out to the owners of the animals . You let me know when you have had to watch a dog be so afraid of people it literally pee's itself ! or be so used to living in a cage it walks outside and clearly has a anxiety attack ! I know about rehabilitation and I also know about genetics ! You cant change certain things about a dog ! You have alot of nerve coming onto a site like this and saying the things you do . You let me know when you have 5 or 6 pitbull type dogs living in your home while still training them and finding them good homes .. OR Putting all of your extra time and effort into a dog that you think can be fixed , everything is fine until one day you walk in the kitchen to fast and it attacks you because its happened to ME ! I have delt with human agressive dogs have you ? Do you know the responsibility that comes with it or the worry of it I highly doubt it ! The dogs I have know came from bad surroundings ! You let me know when you do your research and see how many people that keep dogs like that end up with a headline ! And then maybe I will value your opinion.

Now to the OP .. if the way I worded my statement made you think I was saying to automatically PTS then I apologize that this was the way I made it sound .. I have dealt with HA dogs , I have tried to save them and let me tell you it is a very dangerous and heart breaking road . Now maybe you did not know this but there is a HUGE difference between fearful aggression and the aggression that I believed your dog to have from you initial post . If there is a reason behind it , or maybe the dog has not been around children before , then yes there is HOPE .. Children can be very scary things to dogs . They move quickly and smell funny and dont really have the "social grace" that your dog may be used to with older people ... I do not want to give adivce on how to fix the problem though ,because I have never seen the problem nor have I met your dog . What I will tell you to do is take the dog to the vet , have him tested . And if you truly wish to invest time money blood sweat and tears into it then call a behaviorist and go from there . And if you found humor in my post , or perhaps thought that I thought little of your dog in a way . By no means is that the reason , I actually am a very soft person myself . But on the other hand I have seen the damage that these dogs can do . Not only physically but mentally when you try everything and nothing works it can be very hard on a person . If you have any question you can PM me . I will not come on your thread anymore and argue . I will be more then willing to let you know some of the things that have worked for izzo with her fearful aggression if you would like .. =]


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

Destinoscelgo, the dog wasn't lunging or trying to bite the kid. He ignored the kids till they came towards him. He would growl and then bark but not trying to go after the kids. If he was trying to attack I know he could have probably took me down with how strong he is but he didn't. I pulled him back just in case and he stopped. It wasn't a forceful pull like having to use all my strength. It was one hand tugging a little bit. Izzos mommy, I understand what you mean now. I'm not going to risk a kids life or anyones just to save a dog that can't be saved. I have already made plans just in case I can't fix him and a vet tells me there is nothing wrong with him. I am also having him evaluated because I don't want to put a dog to sleep if hes just afraid of children. That seems wrong to me, but I am willing if he is flat out human aggressive. I apologize if it came off that I was mean or something, I'm just worried and want to try to save him if hes actually still a good dog.


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## destinoscelgo (Dec 28, 2011)

Sometimes fear aggression can be a lot worse than flat out human aggression. Just letting you know.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

I understand. I hope it isn't the case but if it gets worse I already have a plan of euthanizing him.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

After hearing about it probably is best to put him to sleep. I think I am going to take him to a shelter I love. It's a no kill shelter (but they will put a dog to sleep if its unfit for a home or ill) and let them temperament test him and see if they can work him with kids. I know the people and they will try their best but they will also not tolerate giving a dangerous dog to someone. I don't think I can handle him anymore and I'm to the point that I am afraid of him because if it is human aggression he could attack me or anyone. I don't want my relatives who already say bad things about him and his breed to know that he is just like the stereotype so I am going to try to be responsible and give him to someone who I know will not re-home him if hes dangerous and isn't so attached to him like I am that she will put him to sleep if need be. I'd rather not know he was put to sleep or schedule an appointment to kill my dog. I plan to help the shelter by fostering him with food and etc and still get him fixed. Some on here might understand what I'm doing and others will dislike it but I just want whats best for my dog and I'm not in a clear mind to be able to decide to kill him or not. So, I'd rather put it into the hands of someone that isn't attached to him but will try to save him.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Please don't take this to be mean or hateful, but re-homing him is exactly what not to do with a human aggressive dog. It doesn't matter that he's going to a no-kill shelter. Which, makes no sense anyways. You say he'll go to a no-kill shelter, but if he's too far gone to "fix", they'll euthanize him. Then you say you're going to continue to foster him and have him neutered. Maybe I'm not understanding the full gist of your post here. I know it seems hard, but being attached to him should be the #1 reason YOU handle the problem, not pawn it off on someone else to deal with. I understand that everyone has a different mindset, and certain things that they can and can't handle, but you adopted this dog and it should therefore be your sole responsibility to handle him accordingly, IMO. I wish you the best of luck though, and we're here to help you with moral support, if we can.


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## cEElint (Oct 6, 2009)

was the kid staring straight at the dog.. because Daisy will start barking like crazy if i stare at her


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I have a story much like a few others on here, except mine involved a small dog that normally a shelter probably would have adopted out! 

Anyway, when I was 17 I was stupid and bought this adorable puppy fromsomeone selling them on the side of the road (NEVER DO THAT!) he was a Jack Russell/Mini Aussie mix and one of the cutest pups ever! Frst off, that is probably one of the dumbest mixes people could create! You got the terrier personality combined with the nipping & herding from the aussie. Well, from the moment I brought him home he was terrified of everything! If we even picked him up, at times he would scream like we were breaking his legs! I was determined to "train him right" and immediately started him in training. I socialized him like crazy! He did get a lot better. But he had major aggression towards all people! And no, this was not just his herding instinct. (we had a border collie so I know what herding is!) 

It started off just like your dog, it seemed so minor...it was just kids and not all the time. I brought him around kids constantly trying to correct this. Sometimes it is just bad breeding and there is nothing you can to about. 

His i believe was originally fear-based..along with really bad breeding. Yet, he would run after someone and jump up at their face, not their heels. And literally try to rip them apart. It did not matter if they were coming into our house, if we had met them in passing, or if we had even drove past a person walking down the road! It was like the moment he saw a new person this vicious killer dog would come alive in him and he had no fear! For over three years I worked with him, had him checked out at the vet, etc. 

And then one day, my neighbor's kids were out playing in their yard. I opened the door to go check the mail and he came out behind me and made a beeline for the kids, like he had known they were there for hours and was just waiting for his opportunity. I called him. Normally I had him trained that if I called out to him the command that he would stop and sit..well, he did not stop. He jumped up at one of the kids faces and the older sister stopped him before it got really bad. 

That was it for me. The following day, I took him for a nice long walk, gave him his favorite foods, etc. and he was put down. 

Some training could be all your boy needs  but if you do all you can and he still has issues with them, to me the decision is a no brainier. These dogs already have a bad rap and every incident that occurs is going to lead to more BSL  It's not his fault that he could be a badly bred dog.


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## APASA (Dec 27, 2010)

They are just saying that too many pitbulls are showing uncharacteristic traits mostly from over and inexperianced breeding, and now, consequently, our breed is on the brink of extremination. There is a term called "culling" it has been the basis that most dog breeds were created from. Those that fit the purpose were kept those that didn't were culled. Eventually the dogs fit for the purpose had several similarities and there began a noticable, distiguishing patteren eventually recognized as a breed. (Include alot more details) However a prime example of what happens when you don't cull certain dogs that don't fit the orginal standard, you get a seperate class within that breed. Such as group of HA pitbulls (its genetic alot of the time) or a more positive example, the American Bully. As far as apbt standard goes the Ambully is way out of character.. and for the original purpose of the apbt would have been culled. But today, they are something pretty darn cool. Lack of culling doesn't always have that positive outcome. People even cull their own species which is why the undesirables to society (murders and such) can be sentenced to death, or culled from the population. 

Not meant out of offense. A child aggressive dog is the media's christmas dinner. That dog bites a kid and he will contribute to taking down the rest of the breed.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

papertissue said:


> So your saying that a dog that has been beaten and abused by humans, shows ANY signs of aggression it should be killed?
> 
> As I said before...
> 
> ...





papertissue said:


> Take him to the vet .. if there is no medical reason . *IMHO put him down* .. human aggression is never a okay thing .. now if it is fearful aggression you could possibly call a behaviorist .. *but if the children are doing nothing and not paying him any attention then that doesn't sound fearful to me and its time to say goodbye.*
> 
> That's the first thing you said. And you ended your sentence with it as well. Also if you did any research on the breed you'd know that most cases of "pit bulls" biting children aren't actually pit bulls. But going off and killing a dog just because it has a few issues isn't doing anything for the breed either. Apparently the breed doesn't really mean that much to you if the first thing that comes out of your mouth is what was bolded above. So maybe instead of just saying "lol kill your dog" you should of asked more questions. Thaaaaaank you.


Apparently the breed does mean something to her if she is suggesting that.Apbt's are NOT supposed to show any signs of HA at all!Just because she doesn't have any kids in the household does not guarantee that this dog will never be around them.God forbid this dog should get loose or something and come in contact with a child before it gets "fixed" by a behaviourist and bites.Not only will she feel like shit cause she could have done something to prevent it.But that will put a huge dent in all of our fights towards ending BSL.BSL is not only here because of dogs being mislabeled as apbt's,but also because of too many tree huggers thinking they can fix a HA dog or will feel too bad to put it down.
It's not a question about not wanting to train your dogs issues.It's about all of our dogs.I'll be damned if I'm giving up my dogs because there's some of you who aren't responsible enough to own this breed and do what needs to be done in these type of situations.
Put it to sleep.There are too many good dogs out there waiting to be adopted that are not HA in any way.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

dixieland said:


> Apparently the breed does mean something to her if she is suggesting that.Apbt's are NOT supposed to show any signs of HA at all!Just because she doesn't have any kids in the household does not guarantee that this dog will never be around them.God forbid this dog should get loose or something and come in contact with a child before it gets "fixed" by a behaviourist and bites.Not only will she feel like shit cause she could have done something to prevent it.But that will put a huge dent in all of our fights towards ending BSL.BSL is not only here because of dogs being mislabeled as apbt's,but also because of too many tree huggers thinking they can fix a HA dog or will feel too bad to put it down.
> It's not a question about not wanting to train your dogs issues.It's about all of our dogs.I'll be damned if I'm giving up my dogs because there's some of you who aren't responsible enough to own this breed and do what needs to be done in these type of situations.
> Put it to sleep.There are too many good dogs out there waiting to be adopted that are not HA in any way.


:goodpost:


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

I contacted the shelter about my issue and a pitbull rescue told me to call them. She lives in my state and she said she would help me and even let me around her kids to see how he acts. She also gave me a good trainer that worked for both her pitbulls. I think I may have good news. He got fixed today and he was around a kid at the clinic and he didn't bark or growl at her and he was around two young girls who came close to him and he just wagged his tail. He also ignored them running around screaming. Also ignored the little rat terrier running around and the poodle who got loose and barked at him. I hope this means hes going to be okay. Is it just a fluke? The shelter also offered to evaluate him to see if hes kid aggressive.


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

Was this before or after the surgery that he was around the kids?


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

After and hours later, before that I don't know if kids were around him with the staff.


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

Well he may have just been mellowed out from the medicine .


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

That's what I'm afraid of. I'll have a better temperament test when drugs won't be a variable when I take him to shelter to see how he acts around their kids.


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## PerfectPit (Aug 2, 2010)

I am not sure if this may be helpful but I am going to add my two cents. We don't have children but six great nieces/nephews 5mths-11y/o. Beastley was never around children he was only ever around my husband or myself. When the kids came to visit I kept Beastley crated so he could hear them. Then I took the time to teach the older one's the rules. I had everyone stand a safe distance away and brought Beastley out leashed/muzzled (muzzle if you are comfortable with it). I had total control of him. Each child had a bag of goodies. I told the kids initially not to move and not look at him and randomly throw the goodies to him and let him move about on the leash with me at his side. I asked them to slowly move about at a safe distance and not look at him and throw goodies. We did this for several visits (the smaller ones were kept in another area and they had spare blankets that I threw on the floor with their scent) After a few visits like this I told the kids/friends to play outside and make a ruckus and had him inside with the windows open and where he could see/hear them. I gave the kids the goodies again and leashed and muzzled him and while they played I had the kids play and randomly throw goodies. Now Beastley doesn't need to be leashed or muzzled around them he has learned that kids=goodies but they are never left alone with Beastley, when I leave the room so does he. When things get wild and I see Beastley getting excited with play it's time out and he is put in another room for quiet time. It was a long and slow process but if you are not willing to take the time get a vet check, work with a behaviorist or have safe avenue I would sadly PTS.


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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

Children in the age group you said your dog barked at often are kind of scary to dogs who haven't been exposed to them. They move different, they shriek, they are often exceedingly rude in their behavior toward dogs. They grab, they move quickly (and at the dogs own level) A dog that barks ( or even growls) to show his/her alarm, especially one who makes no move toward (or, indeed, tries to evade) is merely expressing his/her discomfort. This is a different level then a dog who is actively going after children, rather than showing (or trying to show) avoidance behavior. Barking and retreating is a form of avoidance, though it is at the level of someone who yells "GO AWAY!" as they retreat, rather than just turning and walking away. We often don't give our dogs the opportunity they would normally seek in retreating, being as they are on leash or forced in other ways to deal with something or situations they would choose to flee on their own.

You are the one who was with your dog, you are the one who needs to read what he/she is trying to say. We can't see that, we can only conjecture. We don't know your situation, nor do we know how willing you are to work safely with a behavior that can, truly, escalate.

The breed IS under the microscope, you don't have the leeway of making mistakes. That's where the advice to put the dog down comes from. An issue of this type comes with a lot of baggage for you, the owner, as well.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

I mainly want to work with the shelter not because they know more but because they are willing to let me see how he acts around their kids. I still am going to take him to the vet and get some people to evaluate his behavior. I also kept that woman's trainer in mind if I can't get him okay with children.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

Okay, I took him to shelter where there was kids. He was great and didn't bother them or bark. The woman took him and I stood outside and she took him towards kids and let him walk by them and he was great. Some of the kids were mentally handicapped and yelling and he still ignored them. She took him around cats, kittens, barking dogs, calm dogs, and even let him play with a pit bull puppy. He didn't bark or growl or do anything aggressive, even played with the puppy. She would do stuff to see how aggressive he was like grab his tail and play with his ears and force him to sit. He did nothing. She said if he was aggressive he would have done bit me for making him sit and etc. She said shes dealt with many dogs that get mad when you do that. So shes going to bring in her kids who love to train dogs and work with them to socialize him more around kids. One of them owns a pit bull that he has trained personally. So things are looking good.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

That's great news. I hope everything works out for you and your dog.


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## aj_harness (Sep 22, 2011)

Yes, and I couldn't be happier. I'm so glad that I didn't give up on him and put him to sleep


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Oh how awesome!!!!


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