# Co-owns



## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

So as not to derail the other thread, I figured I'd start one specifically to discuss co-owns for those thinking about it.

What do you think about co-ownership on a dog between buyer and breeder? Breeders: Do you require it? Buyers: Would you ever do it? What are your fears when it comes to sharing ownership of a dog with someone else? What are your expectations? Do you have any "beware" stories to share? Any positive ones?

I'll post my input in a moment.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

i would not go for co owning. only cuz im greedy like that. plus im not completely familar with what rules go along with co owning. i new someone with a co owned gsd and the breeder was constantly up the womans butt about stupid stuff...like the dog is not allowed to sleep on furniture only a pet bed. and the breeder wanted more time with thew dog then the woman could get so she only had him for like 3 days out of the week...i dunno if things actually work like that or if that breeder was just a little different. but it got to the point where the woman just gave the dog back all together cuz it got to the point where she just felt like a dog sitter and her and the gsd didnt have a very good bond. She wasnt even supposed to be feeding him treats! according to the breeder she only wanted him eating kibble cuz she didnt know what the other woman (donna) to be giving him ne thing that is bad 4 him. that is just one thing that gets me. i feel bad for dogs who dont get treats. this was when i lived in plainfield...i think the woman was a byb when i come to think of it. she was a local breeder. and she claimed to be a reputable breeder but from what remember, she acted more like a byb when it came to breeding.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

jessica arent you co-owning an ofk dog????


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I co-own a few dog in my kennel (with caragan) and the only down side is sending them off for breeding. But when they are bred I get part of the money and 1 or 2nd pick of the pups if I want them.

I have bred a few pups I co-own with other ppl and we have a good relationship. I do not bother them about how they keep the dog as long as they are good owners. When I first co-own Typhoon with this couple who were clients of mine, i thought they wold take good care of her. Well long story short they were letting her suffer with several things they were not treating and I said let me take her for the weekend and I will take her to the vet. When I got her back her ears were bleeding because they left her untreated with a massive ear infection. Because I co-owned her and they were in violation of their contract I called them and told them I was keeping her and they could not have her back. Have I not co-owned her I could not have taken back from ppl who were mistreating her.

Now I co-own her with someone else and it is great. I know that Typhoon will get ear infections sometimes so I pay for all her ear meds for the new owner. Ty had a bad crop job and her ear canal is too small and so I told her owner I would always pay for her meds. If Typhoon is sick I help with vet bills or with meds, If she goes out of town she boards her with me for free. There are lots of perks when co-owning and when it comes time to breed Typhoon we will talk about what males are an option for her.

That is just Typhoon's story on her co-own, I think it benefits the owner in many ways. I also co-own A few of Vixen's offspring and that goes great too. I see onyx all the time and again I board her for free and help with medical care.
I have a shared interest in the dogs and I am as helpful as I can be, oh yeah free training! If your local 

Make sure you discuss any co-own contract with the breeder and find out what they are expecting. I do expect I can show Typhoon locally in conformation shows, I pay for entries and I handle the dog but I want to get her UKC/ADBA CH. Also when you buy a dog from a breeder many do not want you to be able to breed the dog. Not everyone who has an intact dog should breed and I do not want ppl breeding dogs that I bred. That is my blood and I guess I am greedy! Not that I even breed much or want to be a big breeder, I just want to be responsible of all offspring created by my dogs and make sure they are taken care of.

I too have heard about horror stories about breeders being over bearing. I think I have no dog parks in my contact though! lol


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

wow, jess that is a horror story if I've ever heard one!

I've had two experiences with these contracts. One on the breeders end and one on the recieving end.

Indigo is a co-own. Even though she is a co-own I still had to pay for shipping and insemination of the semen... I also had to come out of pocket for all of the litter expenses. I didn't realise how peticular you have to be with these types of contract. All in all my experience with co-owning indigo have been good... Her breeder has left her in my care and we talk almost weekly. Basically she is my dog, he just wanted a puppy out of her. I ended up talking him into letting me keep his pick.

Felony was a co-own that I had to take back. Her old owner was over feeding her and keeping her in unsatisfactory housing conditions. She wasn't getting the exposure/socialization she needed. After talking with her old owner she surrendered the dog into my care.


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## PBN (Aug 1, 2009)

I just wanna make sure but, co-own is when you sign a contract with the breeder right? & the breeder can take the dog back if you violate the contract right?


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

PBN said:


> I just wanna make sure but, co-own is when you sign a contract with the breeder right? & the breeder can take the dog back if you violate the contract right?


Yes, that's the importance of asking any questions you might have regarding the contract. I know I had some questions for OFK, and a couple minutes on the phone cleared everything up.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

StaffyDaddy said:


> jessica arent you co-owning an ofk dog????


lol...when i talk co-owning i mean the breeder is on your back 24 seven about the dog...dont really know much about most co owning cases but when i think of co owning that is what comes to mind...never knew ne one with a co owned dog that had it as easy as us buying from ofk!


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## PBN (Aug 1, 2009)

Umm, I would consider to co own a dog, I'd read the contract and make sure I agree to everything. I think a co own contract shows that the breeder cares of the about the health and life of the dogs he/she are producing which always is good. I also think a co own contract is good because if I couldn't take care of the due to financial issues or couldn't properly socialize it or anything I would probably give the dog back to the breeder. I mean what's the point of keeping the dog if I'm giving him/her a bad life when it could be having a better life with the breeder? But maybe some breeders will harass the owners for no apparent reason. So I would co own a dog with a breeder if I agreed with the contract and make sure he/she could take care of the dog (like Lisa, great thing she did with Typhoon). That's my opinion.


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

great post baha was kinda curious about this too. I agree with Lisa...the down side (i think) would be missing my buddy when I would have to send him or her back for breeding. 

Sounds like there are many benefits to co owning with the right kinda of breeder  so this is a huge plus.

I had no idea that co owning in some instances would let you have first pick of the pups.... very cool!

If I was involved in the co owner agreement the most important part for me would be having the breeder involve me in the buyers that would be interested in the pups. I would personally want to know where the pups were going. I am sure that if I had a good breeder they would be more than capable to screen and pick the right homes but it would be nice to know who and where those homes are. Just for comfort purposes


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

It all depends on the breeder and the contract. I don't know if I would like it too much if the breeder wanted to breed the dog, got to decide on the breeding, got pick of the litter, but I had to take care of the dog throughout pregnancy and all of the pups. And in a lot of cases, the breeder does not assist with vet bills. So, if the breeder wants to ever breed the dog, you have absolutely no say in it, take care of the bills and the momma dog and the pups, and are lucky if you end up getting any compensation from the sale of the pups.


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## gxkon (Jul 13, 2009)

the only way im down wit a co own is if its like pk said i get some profits and 1st or second pik of the litter


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

PBN said:


> I just wanna make sure but, co-own is when you sign a contract with the breeder right? & the breeder can take the dog back if you violate the contract right?


Any good breeder has the dog under at least a normal contract anyway. A co-own is when the breeder and the buyer share ownership of the dog. As you can see above who pays for what and other things varies depending on the specific contract and what the breeder/buyer have agreed on.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Co-ownership would involve a contract, I would think. But it also means that the breeder technically owns half the dog as well. Some breeders will let you work/buy your way out of a co-own or will dissolve it with time, while others are for life.

I have co-owned all of my APBTs with Matrix. It has been a mutually beneficial situation with the flow of information and help going both ways. The contract is extensive, but we sat down and read it together when I was down to see the litter so there was nothing up in the air. I knew fully what I was getting into and was prepared for it before I put my name on that piece of paper.

I am not sure I would co-own with another breeder -- at this point I have no interest in getting a dog from anyone else than the people I'm already involved with, so its kinda moot -- but I am strongly considering co-owns for any future dogs produced by me. A contract is only as strong as the parties agreeing to it, but it is still a good step in keeping everybody honest and dedicated to the same purpose: the dogs.


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## Bethb2007 (Jul 5, 2009)

Co-owning a dog can work pretty good if both people are reputable, and honest. We have been on both sides and it worked OK. I would have to say to the newbies, if a breeder wants to co-own a pup with you, make sure they are a reputable breeder, that has been into the breed awhile. Basiacally when we have given a dog away as a co-own, we sign off the dog, once the person has done what they said they would, such as finished a title. We don't usually do it for pups back, as we don't want to encourage breeding by people new into the breed. I think when breeders do it, they should trust that person more than someone they would sell a pup to, IMO. 

When we have done it, we give them the dog for free, but they are responsible for raising the pup and vets costs, but we are willing to split entry fees, and help with training. 

I am sure there can be problems, but we have been pretty lucky.


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## PBN (Aug 1, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> Any good breeder has the dog under at least a normal contract anyway. A co-own is when the breeder and the buyer *share ownership of the dog*. As you can see above who pays for what and other things varies depending on the specific contract and what the breeder/buyer have agreed on.


Oh okay.

I'd think about it even more.


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## Bully_Boy_Joe (Jul 7, 2008)

I am currently on a very legit co-own with Apollo and my breeder. My breeder basically retains most of the rights for Apollo and I am required to get out to some shows with be it ABKC or UKC. If he is not pleased with how Apollo is being kept up he can request him back, likewise if I am no longer able to take care of him for ANY reason he is obligated to accept him back. I really like it due to the fact that it somewhat gives me a sense of security in knowing Apollo will always have a home.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Bully_Boy_Joe said:


> If he is not pleased with how Apollo is being kept up he can request him back, likewise if I am no longer able to take care of him for ANY reason he is obligated to accept him back. .


This should be apart of any good breeders main contract whether the dog is on a co-own or not.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Just to clear things up, we dont co-own. If you get a dog from us its YOUR dog. I retain stud service should I chose to but I dont own the dog in anyway once you receive it. I would not like to co own so I dont ask those who get dogs from me to co own. You are just signing a contract and required to abide by it but I do not own the dog in any fashion or form! 

On the males if I chose to use them to breed back to a female of mine I can but thats it and I would travel to your place, not require you to send it to me. On the females I retain nothing.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

I don't think I would let any of mine co without co-owing; it for the protection of the dog. I wouldn't want any of mine ever ending being re homed or bred without my permission and approval. 

Co -onwed or not if someone breaks a written contract a dog can legally be taken back if that is what was written in the contact. 

I agree it is something that both breeder and new owner have to sit and really work out together to make sure both parties are happy and most importantly for the best possible situation for the dog.


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

This was all talked about on the Back To The Bullies show on Tuesday, and youd be surprised to know that a lot of written contracts dont actually hold up if taken to court because there are so many loose ends that people dont think of...


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

this is a good thread, i've always wondered about co-owning.


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## JaermaACDs (Jul 25, 2009)

I've co-owned 2 of my ACDs, and I will NEVER do it again. I got burned in both scenarios, and have learned a very hard and painful lesson. One of the dogs, I still have, and have since gotten out of the co-ownership, but only after she turned out to have horrid elbow and hip dysplasia. The second bitch was returned to the co-owner, after I was tricked into returning her, and later forced to sign off on her papers. It is a long and heartbreaking story, that I am just not willing to write all out again 

That said, I have found another ACD pup, but was not willing to co-own. I am buying her outright with full registration privileges. You live and learn I suppose. 

Erin


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

I don't see any real reason I would ever co-own a dog but I can see doing like a puppy back or stud back thing.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

mygirlmaile said:


> This was all talked about on the Back To The Bullies show on Tuesday, and youd be surprised to know that a lot of written contracts dont actually hold up if taken to court because there are so many loose ends that people dont think of...


 On that aspect, having a lawyer help you out with drawing up the contract and also getting things notarized can be very helpful when in doubt.

I


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## Bully_Boy_Joe (Jul 7, 2008)

american_pit13 said:


> This should be apart of any good breeders main contract whether the dog is on a co-own or not.


Yea thats what it was a contract not a co-own lol :hammer::hammer:


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## Bully_Boy_Joe (Jul 7, 2008)

JaermaACDs said:


> I've co-owned 2 of my ACDs, and I will NEVER do it again. I got burned in both scenarios, and have learned a very hard and painful lesson. One of the dogs, I still have, and have since gotten out of the co-ownership, but only after she turned out to have horrid elbow and hip dysplasia. The second bitch was returned to the co-owner, after I was tricked into returning her, and later forced to sign off on her papers. It is a long and heartbreaking story, that I am just not willing to write all out again
> 
> That said, I have found another ACD pup, but was not willing to co-own. I am buying her outright with full registration privileges. You live and learn I suppose.
> 
> Erin


ACDs??????


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Bully_Boy_Joe said:


> ACDs??????


Australia cattle dog? I think


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I think it all boils down to who you do business with. Even among friends you should always have a co-own you both agree on. I would never considering selling a dog out right just for the fact I do not want ppl breeding my dogs. I have seen other breeders have problems with their dogs being over bred.
I also had a bad experience with my first 2 litters and will never go through that again. I had a nasty divorce (not me the ppl who had my dogs) that ended with the ex wife putting two of my dogs down from separate litters just in spite. Had I co-owned them I could have happily sued her.
It has it's perks and it's down side I guess but I feel better knowing any of my pups I do not keep are co-owned. Also if I had a female on co-own I wanted to breed I pay for and whelp any litter. I would not expect someone to pay for and whelp a litter I wanted to breed.

Guess if your interested in breeding co-owing is not the way to go but for a newbie it could be beneficial to have support.


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I would consider doing it.. but it would depend on the stipulations of the contract. For example, if I had a female dog I might not want her bred. And I definitely wouldn't want my dog leaving me to be bred.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

For ppl who have contracts we should start a thread where we can post our contracts so ppl can see what a co-own looks like. Whatcha all think? would that help?


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

That would be a good idea. I have one that I've been tinkering around with as one of those "what ifs." Wont be sharing the one I'm bound by with my dogs because its 5 pages and I'm not typing that all out. LOL


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Here is ours

Oldfort Kennels -- ADBA & UKC Registered


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> For ppl who have contracts we should start a thread where we can post our contracts so ppl can see what a co-own looks like. Whatcha all think? would that help?


Lisa great idea. it would give some of us noobs a better idea of the linguistics of the contracts.plus it would just be educational.

thanks in advance


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Here is Typhoon's contract 
contracts[/url

Each dog and litter is slightly different


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Here is Typhoon's contract
> contracts[/url
> 
> Each dog and litter is slightly different




Lisa thanks for posting this. Looks like you are really thorough and thats a great thing. I especially like this part of the contract:

18.	Buyer(s) specifically agrees that should the Dog ever be contested over in any separation, divorce, bankruptcy or other legal action, or Dog's life threatened by family member, the Buyer(s) will immediately forfeits Dog to Seller(s), and the Dog shall be surrendered to Seller(s) or Seller's representative upon demand, together with the Dog's registration ADBA.

Keep up the good work.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

You know most of my contract I borrowed from Caragan knl, Hers and mine still vary but you can see how careful we have to be. Everything in that contract is because of a bad experience with other owners so we try to protect our dogs with a detailed contract.

I said earlier I had a divorced couple and the ex wife took both dogs from 2 of my breeding and put them down. It really sucked


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## SMOKIN HEMI (Nov 12, 2008)

Co Ownership should only be done if there is serious trust between the breeder and owner. Really it should be contract written so there wont be any misunderstandings on breeders expectations


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> I said earlier I had a divorced couple and the ex wife took both dogs from 2 of my breeding and put them down. It really sucked


I cannot believe that divorced woman would do something like this out of spite. That is so sad. I am glad that both you and Cheryl protect your dogs.

Things like this just confirm my belief that you and Cheryl are who I would want to work with in the future.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

This is the only way I could figure out how to post my contract that the pups go out on. It's really Island Pride Bullies, but I added a few things to it... Since this is technically his litter, the pups go out with this contract. I don't think these are outrageous requirements.


PUPPY PURCHASE AGREEMENT 

The undersigned Buyer, _____________________________________and Island Pride Bullies do herby agree to the following terms and conditions on the purchase of a U.K.C. registered AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER puppy/dog.
1. The total purchase price will be $____0.00______. Shipping is additional and not included in purchase price. Buyer is responsible for all shipping costs.
2. The Buyer is to pay a $ ____0.00_____ non-refundable deposit on the puppy. The puppy must be paid in full by the time it reaches 8-weeks old, or the deposit will be forfeited. The puppy must also be picked-up or shipped out to Buyer by the time puppy reaches 8-weeks old, or there will be a $50.00 weekly charge thereafter. There are No Refunds and all sales are Final.
3. The UKC registered name of the pup will first state the kennels name of “Island Pride Bullies”, the name of your choice, and then “of IBC”. Under no circumstances will Island Pride Bullies ever be changed on the UKC registration certificate name. Subsequent owners must also agree to this entire Purchase Agreement and sign their acceptance.
4. Buyer agrees to socialize the pup/dog and keep it in a good healthy condition, and to feed it a good quality dog food and a vitamin/mineral supplement and to have regular Vet check-ups. Including basic dog care such as clipping nails, cleaning ears, ect.
5. Under no circumstances is the Buyer ever to fight, roll or face off pup/dog with any other animal or dog.
6. Island Pride Bullies extends a 30-day Health Guarantee (from the date the pup/dog is taken) provided the Buyer has not willingly or unwillingly placed the animal in situations that may have precipitated a condition. Should the dog be diagnosed with an illness or a condition within this time frame, and the cause is clearly attributed to Island Pride Bullies, the dog may be returned with a written diagnosis from a licensed veterinarian, for another animal of equal value or full refund of all monies minus return shipping. Buyer must also take the puppy /dog to a licensed veterinarian within 72-hours (from the date the pup/dog is taken/received by buyer) for a check-up, or the Health Guarantee will be voided.
7. There will be no transfers of ownership of dog/puppy. The buyer agrees not to house the dog/puppy with anyone else, and keep it out of extreme weather. Buyer agrees to give seller first choice to take back the dog/puppy.
8. The Buyer agrees to never to jeopardize the integrity of Island Pride Bullies in any way. Buyer agrees not to breed to an unregistered dog nor breed said dog until it has obtained a competition title.
9. Island Pride Bullies reserves the right to take back dog/puppy if any of the previously stated agreements are compromised. Buyer is responsible for all legal action and sellers fees incurred during this process. 
10. The undersigned Buyer and Island Pride Bullies acknowledge that this is a legal and binding contract and have received a signed copy.
THE UNDERSIGNED BUYER AND ISLAND PRIDE BULLIES DO HERBY ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT TO PURCHASE ON THIS __________ DAY OF _______________ 2009.

SELLER: INDIGO BULLY CONNECTION/ ISLAND PRIDE BULLIES 
ADDRESS:
MIDDLEBURG, FL 32068
PHONE: 

BUYER: ___________________________________________
ADDRESS: ________________________________________
PHONE: __________________________________________





Puppy/Dog Info:
Sex: Female Registry: U.K.C. #___________________________________ 
Color/Markings: _____________________________ 
Sire: 
Dam: 

Payments & Balances:
Total paid to date $___________ Date: 
Balance due prior to picking up or shipping of pup $___________ 
Additional Info:_______________________________________________________ 

___________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I'm still thinking of adding a few clauses to be honest, but it really doesn't matter at this time because I don't plan on having another litter for years to come.


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> I'm still thinking of adding a few clauses to be honest, but it really doesn't matter at this time because I don't plan on having another litter for years to come.


thanks for posting this. looks pretty straight forward. have you had to do any customizations for different owners? or is it a sign it or leave it type thing?

personally i cannot see any reason why a buyer would not sign a contract like this.:goodpost:


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

boogiebot said:


> thanks for posting this. looks pretty straight forward. have you had to do any customizations for different owners? or is it a sign it or leave it type thing?
> 
> personally i cannot see any reason why a buyer would not sign a contract like this.:goodpost:


lol I honestly have placed one dog on this contract and I had to take her back. Now the dog will go to MyMaile on this board in the next couple of weeks. In the previous contract it was tailored to where I covered half of the stud service fee, and to recieve a pup back or the cost of first pick if I wasn't interested at the time.


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> lol I honestly have placed one dog on this contract and I had to take her back. Now the dog will go to MyMaile on this board in the next couple of weeks. In the previous contract it was tailored to where I covered half of the stud service fee, and to recieve a pup back or the cost of first pick if I wasn't interested at the time.


well good to know that your pup will be going to someone who will provide her a good home. Why did you have to take the pup back? What caused the breach of contract? just curious


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

boogiebot said:


> well good to know that your pup will be going to someone who will provide her a good home. Why did you have to take the pup back? What caused the breach of contract? just curious


Well, the dog was over weight and she was keeping her kenneled outside in the florida heat (90 plus degrees without the humidity) on a slick surface which isn't good for the joints. She hadn't trimmed her nails in god knows how long. She was feeding to high protien & calcium diet. When i got the dog back her feet were flat...when i gave her the dog she has nice tight feet. Now that's she's back in my care her feet aren't flat anymore, but they aren't ever going to be as tight as they were when she left the first time.


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Well, the dog was over weight and she was keeping her kenneled outside in the florida heat (90 plus degrees without the humidity) on a slick surface which isn't good for the joints. She hadn't trimmed her nails in god knows how long. She was feeding to high protien & calcium diet. When i got the dog back her feet were flat...when i gave her the dog she has nice tight feet. Now that's she's back in my care her feet aren't flat anymore, but they aren't ever going to be as tight as they were when she left the first time.


the heat must be killer for the dog. what do you mean when you say her feet were flat?


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

her nails were growing and not being trimmed and so her feet started to kinda spread apart and thus making them look flat.

at least, that's how i understood it


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

got it. thanks for the clarification.


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