# Sticky  Correct Fronts vs EW and Bullies Bred to the ABKC Standard



## pitbullmamanatl

_*Posting this with permission from Idalis Lewis @ Watchdog Kennels.

This is an awesome thread that explains what a true, clean front looks like. *_ 
______________________________
I just wanted to attempt to explain what a true clean front is. I see a lot of people say their dog is clean and legs are straight as an arrow and when I mention that their dog is easty westy they are shocked. 

This is what a correct front should look like...Notice a clean line from the shoulders clear into the feet. 








Here is a picture the dog on the left is slightly easty westy even though his legs are very straight and the dog on the right has a nice clean correct straight front clear into the feet. 








Some cases are more severe then others. 

































I posted this because a lot of people have the wrong idea about what a bully should look like.

Now here are pictures of some beautiful bullies with correct and clean fronts. In my opinion, these dogs are not overdone and are perfect examples of bullies bred to the ABKC set standard. 








































* The above picture is the sire of BTK's dog, The Prophecy. *








*Appletini*
























* Megatron*
















* and of course The Prophecy!*


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## Mach0

Nice ! Thanks for sharing. my boy is EW but no where near 45degrees


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## Mach0

I like this dog


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## Novakkennels

Some of those dogs are fiddle front or fiddle feet, imo a severe fault .A lot of those supposed straight fronts are easty westy but are either stacked or standing in grass so you cant see, either way a good post because a lot of the hyped up bullies are severely flawed with e w, fiddle, multiple types of cow hocked etc.. but they call it "extreme" and many of the untrained eyes get fooled to believing its ok .


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## MY MIKADO

Nice thread Lauren. Good info.


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## Mach0

Novakkennels said:


> Some of those dogs are fiddle front or fiddle feet, imo a severe fault .A lot of those supposed straight fronts are easty westy but are either stacked or standing in grass so you cant see, either way a good post because a lot of the hyped up bullies are severely flawed with e w, fiddle, multiple types of cow hocked etc.. but they call it "extreme" and many of the untrained eyes get fooled to believing its ok .


:goodpost:

Good catch- some extremes are indeed extreme 
Some are nice but this a good ref thread


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## CaLi 2 B.C.

Extreme is simply a class for the dogs with more bone mass.It has nothing to do with the posture.


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## Mach0

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> Extreme is simply a class for the dogs with more bone mass.It has nothing to do with the posture.


Agreed- problem may be finding a judge who sticks to that. There's an extreme that Lauren was pictured with- that was a great example of an extreme bully still physically correct.


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## angelbaby

traffic? he is gorgeous . 
I love this post lauren I thought it was very helpfull glad you got permission to repost over here


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## CaLi 2 B.C.

Mach0 said:


> Agreed- problem may be finding a judge who sticks to that. There's an extreme that Lauren was pictured with- that was a great example of an extreme bully still physically correct.


True that,i think overall there is less correct extreme bullies to choose from period.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Mach0 said:


> Agreed- problem may be finding a judge who sticks to that. There's an extreme that Lauren was pictured with- that was a great example of an extreme bully still physically correct.


Yes, I agree he definitely is.



angelbaby said:


> traffic? he is gorgeous .
> I love this post lauren I thought it was very helpfull glad you got permission to repost over here


Naw Traffic is pocket he is talking about Blackout  
They are both gorgeous!


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## American_Pit13

Novakkennels said:


> Some of those dogs are fiddle front or fiddle feet, imo a severe fault .A lot of those supposed straight fronts are easty westy but are either stacked or standing in grass so you cant see, either way a good post because a lot of the hyped up bullies are severely flawed with e w, fiddle, multiple types of cow hocked etc.. but they call it "extreme" and many of the untrained eyes get fooled to believing its ok .


:goodpost:

Very good thread.


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## Moose7

nice thread, some good visual examples


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## SARGEnNIKITA

Ok now that blue and white 818 dog is freaking gorgeous... hehe but then again im kind of partial to the patches on white.... (sarge is my favorite) but theres no biased.... muahahahahaha

anywho great info in this thread!!!!


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## pitbullmamanatl

Moose7 said:


> nice thread, some good visual examples


Agreed!



SARGEnNIKITA said:


> Ok now that blue and white 818 dog is freaking gorgeous... hehe but then again im kind of partial to the patches on white.... (sarge is my favorite) but theres no biased.... muahahahahaha
> 
> anywho great info in this thread!!!!


Yes, Megatron is GORGEOUS! I love his two different color ears.


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## Patch-O-Pits

Here this in my opinion explains better about the structure of the front traditionally in an APBT and why it should be that way:
American Pit Bull Terrier Network Front Study 2
and
American Pit Bull Terrier Network Forequarters Page

The way the feet turn/ the dog's front stance is affected often by many other things not always just the wrist joint, but also the shoulder set, the chest etc...

The links I posted give a ton of good info


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## Patch-O-Pits

Novakkennels said:


> Some of those dogs are fiddle front or fiddle feet, imo a severe fault .A lot of those supposed straight fronts are easty westy but are either stacked or standing in grass so you cant see, either way a good post because a lot of the hyped up bullies are severely flawed with e w, fiddle, multiple types of cow hocked etc.. but they call it "extreme" and many of the untrained eyes get fooled to believing its ok .


Absolutely...
For those who aren't used to doing evals and looking at structure the dogs who are stacked can be manipulated to look as though issues aren't as bad or even pretty much hide them but if you look at other aspects and closely enough you see the faults pop right out.


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## SARGEnNIKITA

@mama. I love the ears too... Makes me kind of wish I had cropped sarge since he has the same one ear colored and the other white... If I planned on showing him I def would have cropped...


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## Wingman

Great post Lauren!


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## N3v3rShOuTMaXi3

So can cases get anymore extreme than that?
And also does it hurt them to have that?


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## pitbullmamanatl

maxinelovesherdogs said:


> So can cases get anymore extreme than that?
> And also does it hurt them to have that?


Yes, they can be more severe. The sire of last incorrect dog pictured is much worse than that; furthermore, cases where the dog is almost crippled is severely painful for the dog. It is very sad.


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## Beedeezy10

Thanx for this write up...Now im goin to be more aware of faults.


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## r0ckah0l1c

Yay! I'm so happy to know that even though my little pit is mixed, she has a straight front! Hopefully she will have a strong build when she's older. Can their fronts change as they become adults? I can't get my blue to stand still long enough to check him right now.


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## pitbullmamanatl

r0ckah0l1c said:


> Yay! I'm so happy to know that even though my little pit is mixed, she has a straight front! Hopefully she will have a strong build when she's older. Can their fronts change as they become adults? I can't get my blue to stand still long enough to check him right now.


Absolutely a dog's front can change as they get older due to environmental issues. For example, keeping a bully puppy too heavy at such a young age can have a negative effect on its front because its bones are not able to support all that weight just yet. There are issues such as knuckling, which can often be caused by too much protein and can usually be corrected in puppies with a lower protein food.


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## Indigo Bully Connection

Lauren, here's some information on those swimmers i was telling you about.

LABRADORNET - Swimming Puppy Syndrome

SiriusDog.com - "Swimmers"











Now this dog is down right puzzling???

gimpydogs: Please help Jeremiah


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## apbtmom76

ok so that poor puppy, I cannot hear anything but wth is wrong with it?? And the second video link doesn't work for me. Good vid though Shana


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## pitbullmamanatl

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Lauren, here's some information on those swimmers i was telling you about.
> 
> LABRADORNET - Swimming Puppy Syndrome
> 
> SiriusDog.com - "Swimmers"
> 
> YouTube - Luther, Swimmer Puppy
> 
> YouTube - Swimming Puppy Syndrome
> 
> Now this dog is down right puzzling???
> 
> gimpydogs: Please help Jeremiah


Thank you for posting those, Shana. I did not know enough about Swimmers to add to my post. That is so sad and that last link, the gimpy dog one, OMG! That is soooo sad!!!


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## angelbaby

good post shana thanks for that never heard of swimmers before.


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## pitbullmamanatl

_Thanks to Idalis Lewis for this add in:_


Legs are NOT decoration ... legs on an animal are for a purpose to carry a dog... crooked legs are not structurally sound... straight legs are better able to carry a dog and it's weight while its running and jumping around.

Like legs on a table in on sense the straighter legs can hold up more weight then legs with a lot of curves in them make it harder for the dog to move and easier for those bones to break if the where to jump off a couch... if they could even get on one.


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## COSA NOSTRA MRFRANKIE

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> Ok now that blue and white 818 dog is freaking gorgeous... hehe but then again im kind of partial to the patches on white.... (sarge is my favorite) but theres no biased.... muahahahahaha
> 
> anywho great info in this thread!!!!





pitbullmamanatl said:


> Agreed!
> 
> Yes, Megatron is GORGEOUS! I love his two different color ears.












*WOW!!! THIS DOG IS ONE HANDSOME BULLY! :woof:*


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## pitbullmamanatl

COSA NOSTRA MRFRANKIE said:


> *WOW!!! THIS DOG IS ONE HANDSOME BULLY! :woof:*


lol sorry I spoiled your intro poll I guess!


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## 9361

Good thread!


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## AJTL

So maybe I missed it, but is there anything to do about this? My puppy legs are straight but yea a slight turn inwards.


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## pitbullmamanatl

AJTL said:


> So maybe I missed it, but is there anything to do about this? My puppy legs are straight but yea a slight turn inwards.


Genetics play a major part with issues like toeing in/out, fiddle fronts, etc which is why it is not advised to breed any dog with severe front assembly faults. In American Bullies, front assembly faults can become even more severe when they are overweight. A dog that is not more than slightly 45 degrees can quickly become more than 45 degrees if it is overweight.


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## Jasper

who's pit is the one above Gorilla's sugar daddy amazing dog


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## pitbullmamanatl

Jasper said:


> who's pit is the one above Gorilla's sugar daddy amazing dog


*Colden's Carmello in a Champagne Suit*


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## Jasper

thanks that dog is beautiful


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## pitbullmamanatl

bumping this up........


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## performanceknls

I made this a sticky, do you know how to do that? Under thread tools on the top of the thread


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## pitbullmamanatl

performanceknls said:


> I made this a sticky, do you know how to do that? Under thread tools on the top of the thread


LMFAO of course I know how to sticky woman! i just didn't want a bunch of stickies but this definitely needs to be one thanks!


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## oslak

Is there a way to correct the legs of a pup which shows early signs of having an EW front , 

How about giving them calcium supplements or giving them regular exercise


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## American_Pit13

oslak said:


> Is there a way to correct the legs of a pup which shows early signs of having an EW front ,
> 
> How about giving them calcium supplements or giving them regular exercise


No that will not correct a dogs genetics. When a dog is bred with a bad front, and it is not a nutrition related issue thats how its going to be. Things like Knuckling over can be helped and fixed sometimes, but not these issues stated by the OP.


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## pitbullmamanatl

When correct fronts are lost in a family of dogs it is almost impossible to get them back


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## pitbullmamanatl




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## Ebar

..... I don't know how to thank you! I just got done doing tons of digging into azdesertdogs and I knew it was right of me to feel a little off and not like the bully's they breed! Almost everyone of them I saw in person didn't appear in shape and none I mean NONE of the had straight legs and I was told it was extreme bully's that they bred..... I sent a link in another post and if you guys can give your 2 pennies that means I'm on the right track to not picking the wrong bully( notice how I didn't say picking the right one BC I'm still learning) but thanks to your guys awesome post I'm steering away from heartache and headaches! Azdesertdogs.com


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## NITRAM2K9

awesome thread. 
So is the blue and white 818 concepts dog considered a "classic" bully? I can't seem to find a bully breeder that has anything like that,... on line that is. I know this site is the best resource for quality information. Short of living in Southern California, IMO.


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## pitbullmamanatl

NITRAM2K9 said:


> awesome thread.
> So is the blue and white 818 concepts dog considered a "classic" bully? I can't seem to find a bully breeder that has anything like that,... on line that is. I know this site is the best resource for quality information. Short of living in Southern California, IMO.


Yes, if that dog were still alive he would be considered Classic. Nobody breeds for a Classic dog they just pop up in litters, same as Extreme and all the other varieties. You can get all five varieties in the same litter. Happens all the time. Don't ask me why. I have no definitive answer or proof and anything anyone else tells you is all speculation. It just happens.


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## johnnykkr

*Well*

These breeders wrote a new standard based on the one used by the UKC, and ... This new breed was given the name "The American Staffordshire Terrier torrent" or A.B.K.C. for short, is the official registry ... Front legs- straight from legs, large or round bones.


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## megan&herc

Hey all, new here. I've shown horses my whole life, so I'm fairly familiar with conformation, but I wanted to get some input on Hercules' structural strengths & weaknesses. Not perfectly square or stacked, but you get the idea. Thanks!


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## myDogRoxy

*Is my dog nice ?*


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## tyereid

I was given a puppy with no papers. But was told she's an American bully, Razor Edge and Gotti. I just want to make sure I do have a bully. Also what can I do to get papers on my girl.

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## tyereid

I was given this puppy and she's 3 months old. He told me she was a american bully Gotti and Razor Edge. I didn't get any papers on her, so I would like to know if I do have a bully.





































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## EckoMac

tyereid said:


> I was given this puppy and she's 3 months old. He told me she was a american bully Gotti and Razor Edge. I didn't get any papers on her, so I would like to know if I do have a bully.
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Unfortunately without papers there is no way to tell exactly what you have. A bull breed mix most likely. Possibly a bully, or mix thereof.


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