# Are most pits related to dogfighting "champions"?



## Captain (Apr 21, 2014)

First and foremost I am 100% against dogfighting - I think it's disgusting.

However, I am intrigued.

Pit bull type dogs were originally, for the most part, bred to fight other dogs.

Now, given that dogfighting is illegal, have breeders opted for other characteristics when it comes to breeding (such as no DA, head size, color etc.)

Or is there an underground ring that continuously breeds to increase "game potential".


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## DickyT (Jan 29, 2014)

Any breeder that breeds for color, head size, etc is doing the breed a huge disservice, and in my book is nothing but a byb. It would take hundreds of years to breed DA out of the breed. Amstaffs and bully's that are bred for the show ring may have less chance of DA than an APBT, but they are not 'pit bulls'.

Real ABPTs will most likely all have DA, not to say that there are not well bred ones that won't, but the chance of DA will always be there.

Of course there is underground rings that engage in illegal acts, there is human scum everywhere. On the flip side of that there are breed preservationists that strive hard to keep some of the older bloodlines alive and true to their roots, but use the dogs in other forms of working like weight pull, agility, hog hunting, etc.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

When one breeds away from the original purpose of the dog...you no longer have an American Pit Bull Terrier. Matching dogs Pre 76 was completely different from the random "street fighters" and gang members who randomly throw two dogs together without a clue and kill the loser. AmStaffs are the perfect example of what I am taking about. They are not the same dogs as APBTs, they were once APBTs, but bred strictly for the show ring and overtime developed into a new breed.

That being said, the APBT is a dog that can do almost anything. People use them for hog hunting which would probably be the closest thing to matching dogs that is legal. These dogs do great in nose work, agility, other hunts-- basically they are a great all around working dog!

But to answer your question, there are countries where it is legal...and of course there are underground people out there that do it in countries where it is illegal. Again, there is a world of difference between those random gang fighters you see on the news and the people who do it in legal countries and do it the way the dogmen did it pre76. Basically things went down hill for these dogs when they got into the hands of the average joe smoe instead of remaining in small circles.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

to get back to your queston,

no, most are not from champions, 

thats why there's a LOT of paper hung dogs, even back in the day,

if you didnt know or trust the people that your dog come from, throw those papers out the window, he's more than likely paper-hung.

in different parts of the country, the laws were enforced differently.

where i'm from, it took until 1990, before the game really went down hill,

and that wasnt the dogs fault, 

thats when drug money got involved, so then you know the 'feds' had to
get involved.

but i remember, owners of dobermans, chows, and once an akita,

they all thought they had a pitbull's 'nightmare'

until they got a chance, then it was realized, those other breeds are not even in the same class.

i used to say..... my dog can do whatever your dog can do,

they whip his butt when they're done............


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## hallkemar (May 11, 2014)

Just because your father is Michael Jordan, it doesnt mean you will be a duplicate. think people think.


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## hallkemar (May 11, 2014)

DickyT said:


> Any breeder that breeds for color, head size, etc is doing the breed a huge disservice, and in my book is nothing but a byb. It would take hundreds of years to breed DA out of the breed. Amstaffs and bully's that are bred for the show ring may have less chance of DA than an APBT, but they are not 'pit bulls'.
> 
> Real ABPTs will most likely all have DA, not to say that there are not well bred ones that won't, but the chance of DA will always be there.
> 
> Of course there is underground rings that engage in illegal acts, there is human scum everywhere. On the flip side of that there are breed preservationists that strive hard to keep some of the older bloodlines alive and true to their roots, but use the dogs in other forms of working like weight pull, agility, hog hunting, etc.


thank you my good sir.


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## marie1 (May 15, 2014)

i would really like some tips on for my puppy since i am a first time pit bull owner. i have an introduction forum please view it and give me tips and information


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Captain said:


> First and foremost I am 100% against dogfighting - I think it's disgusting.
> 
> However, I am intrigued.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to add that pit bull type is a made up term used to describe tons of bull breeds. Not all bull breeds were bred for the same purpose. And I tend to go along with any dog can be dog aggressive Dog aggression in itself is not breed specific. Tons of breeds can be dog aggressive. The APBT was bred to be a fighting dog. Sure there are tons of people who don't breed for the original standard anymore, but it doesn't change wheat they were originally bred for. and not pit bull type dogs, actual American Pit Bull terriers.


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## mlb (Nov 7, 2012)

Coach, surfer, and Ames; your posts should be copied into every question like this that comes up. Great stuff.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

hallkemar said:


> Just because your father is Michael Jordan, it doesnt mean you will be a duplicate. think people think.


no it doesnt but ... Michael Jordan was not bred on purpose to become a basketball legend. he was a lucky fluke. these dogs dont just have one champion behind them in their lineage ... they were bred for it. generation after generation. so to relate it back to ur statement Michael Jordan didnt have basketball bred into him. his parents werent legends nor his grandparents before him or the 4 other generations before them. so who needs to think twice now?

but yeah i agree with Ames... "pit bull type dog" doesnt mean anything. but an APBT that is truly an APBT will trace back to fighting dogs. champion dogs! and thats why as much as we have come to demonize and despise dog fighting now a days, u will here the phrase "love ur APBT? thank a dog fighter." the breed is what they are today (loyal, stubborn, loving, and determined) because of what was bred into them by the dogmen of the past.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Odin`s_BlueDragon said:


> no it doesnt but ... Michael Jordan was not bred on purpose to become a basketball legend. *he was a lucky fluke.* these dogs dont just have one champion behind them in their lineage ... they were bred for it. generation after generation. so to relate it back to ur statement Michael Jordan didnt have basketball bred into him. his parents werent legends nor his grandparents before him or the 4 other generations before them. so who needs to think twice now?
> 
> but yeah i agree with Ames... "pit bull type dog" doesnt mean anything. but an APBT that is truly an APBT will trace back to fighting dogs. champion dogs! and thats why as much as we have come to demonize and despise dog fighting now a days, u will here the phrase "love ur APBT? thank a dog fighter." the breed is what they are today (loyal, stubborn, loving, and determined) because of what was bred into them by the dogmen of the past.


Lucky fluke?


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

The question has been answered, 
Something I'll say and shut up. 
Do not, DO NOT lump all who fight dogs into one pile. 
Nothing jerks my chain more. 
Theirs still A great amount of honor given to this sport and breed by 
I'm often caught in the battle of the battle with my dog. She's DA, severely. 
I say to myself, "never again" yet I'm always caught when I see A breeding of the old class, thinking how nice it would be to have one. 
Theirs something bred into them psychologically that connects to my core when they get charged up. The tension ignites into the air. It's like being in an electrical storm. You can't sense it. It's in my genetic make up as much as the dog.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

Saint Francis said:


> Lucky fluke?


sorry... im not much of a basket ball fan. was i wrong tho? was Jordan bred to be a legend?


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Captain said:


> First and foremost I am 100% against dogfighting - I think it's disgusting.
> 
> However, I am intrigued.
> 
> ...


Well you know nothing about true matching if you find it disgusting. Media is 100% wrong about it.

People who think this way don't deserve these dogs (the REAL ones). How can you hate what the Pit Dog loves???? 
They were never forced to "fight to the death" as Mr. Media Fool writes. 
They were never tortured, had fangs filed, kept in dark rooms, etc, to make them mean and vicious.

Anyone who breeds these dogs to take DA out is making a fatal mistake. They are breeding curs, that were culled from the genetic pool if that is the case.

You cannot have a breed bred away from its genetic roots. And it will backfire. Curs are the human biters 9 out of 10 times, IMO.

The old sport is dead, and whatever happens underground will stay underground.

JMO


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## TheHiddenAngel (Mar 21, 2014)

A lot of good responses on this one, to be honest I would be more worried if my dog didn't show some level of DA. Curs are....something people should be careful with.


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## Steinlin (Dec 20, 2009)

::::COACH:::: said:


> When one breeds away from the original purpose of the dog...you no longer have an American Pit Bull Terrier. Matching dogs Pre 76 was completely different from the random "street fighters" and gang members who randomly throw two dogs together without a clue and kill the loser. AmStaffs are the perfect example of what I am taking about. They are not the same dogs as APBTs, they were once APBTs, but bred strictly for the show ring and overtime developed into a new breed.
> 
> That being said, the APBT is a dog that can do almost anything. People use them for hog hunting which would probably be the closest thing to matching dogs that is legal. These dogs do great in nose work, agility, other hunts-- basically they are a great all around working dog!
> 
> But to answer your question, there are countries where it is legal...and of course there are underground people out there that do it in countries where it is illegal. Again, there is a world of difference between those random gang fighters you see on the news and the people who do it in legal countries and do it the way the dogmen did it pre76. Basically things went down hill for these dogs when they got into the hands of the average joe smoe instead of remaining in small circles.


I agree with you 100% Coach...popularity is, and always will be, the demise of any breed including the pit bulldog


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

Goemon said:


> Well you know nothing about true matching if you find it disgusting. Media is 100% wrong about it.


I do agree the media is wrong about the specifics of matching dogs.

But, all you have to do is read some accounts of these fights in books like the Armitage one and even that "bible" of Pit Bull dogdom, "The Compete Game Dog".

You get two truly game dogs together where neither is going to quit, it takes a tremendous amount of damage to one or both to "prove" gameness. That is the whole idea -- to see how much a dog can take. There is no getting around that horrific damage has to be done to that end.

You can quit fooling yourselves about THAT part of it.

You can say oh those weren't true dogfighters that would not pick up a dog to save it. Oh yes they were and it wasn't rare.


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## Carla Restivo (Feb 17, 2014)

::::COACH:::: said:


> When one breeds away from the original purpose of the dog...you no longer have an American Pit Bull Terrier.


ooookay...



::::COACH:::: said:


> That being said, the APBT is a dog that can do almost anything. People use them for hog hunting which would probably be the closest thing to matching dogs that is legal. These dogs do great in nose work, agility, other hunts-- basically they are a great all around working dog!


And THESE dogs are also American Pit Bull Terriers!

The AMERICAN Pit Bull Terrier has been known since it's beginning for being able to be great working dogs, especially in America where the bull and terriers developed into a slightly larger, more generalized working dog (in addition to the dogs used only for fighting), than they had been Britain.

You CAN breed away for "original purpose" and still have an American Pit Bull Terrier. That great hog hunting dog or agility dog is STILL an American Pit Bull Terrier.


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## TedH71 (Jun 13, 2011)

Yes, DA can be bred out for specific purposes such as hog hunting. Hog hunters will cull a DA pit bull on the spot because bay/strike dogs are far more valuable than catch dogs. However, the pit bull or American bulldogs can still exhibit selective dog aggressiveness which is far more manageable compared to full out DA. Hog hunters have been breeding pit bulls for generations to not have much DA. Some bloodlines even are registered and always have been. Problem is I'm trying to find out which bloodlines are nowadays with all the pit bull bloodlines being severely scatter bred which doesn't help matters much.


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