# Pitbull front leg



## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

My little puppy has odd looking front legs to me. It seems like arounf the "ankle" part, the leg comes down in a 45 degree angle as opposed to something straight down...can someone let me know if its a deformity or post pictures of good healthy legs vs deformed ones?


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

a picture would most def help out with this///


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

after doing some research...it seems similar to a downed pastern...ive switched him from high quality kibble to pure raw chicken...is this why? hes been on the new diet for about 3 weeks, and is about 19 weeks old

ill try to get pics up


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

it looks similar to these...but not as severe...


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

youre just giving him chicken? like...nothing else?


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

im feeding him raw chicken..bone and everything included after doing researcha nd coming to the conclusion that raw is probably better than any kibble...im also giving him egg with shell here and there...and yogurt


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

It could just be broken down pasterns, or weak pasterns. Humm can you take a picture?


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

i'll take pictures tomorrow...thanks for the help

if it is broken down/weak pasterns, what is the cause? any solution?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I think poor diet has a lot to do with it but I asked one of our mods to answer the raw question.

Also too high of protein causes issues like this. when you post pictures it will be easier to help you, it could just be structural or another disease. So pictures will help determine that.

In the mean time you need a low protein for like under 25% and I would put the pup on adult food, kibble not raw for now.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

WEEELLLL if you read the article that goes with the pictures of those paws it's usually a dietary thing. You're feeding your dog waaay too much protien that his body isn't using and it's basically attacking the joints. It is especially bad to kennel the dog for a large ammount of time. Here's the link to the full article.

Carpal Subluxation Syndrome

Get your dog off of that make shift raw diet because it is no where near a balanced diet.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Thanks Shana I know you are the queen of raw, lol.
Again pictures are what we need because broken down pasterns is an issue with some gamebred dogs. I have no clue what your ped looks like but I see it all the time with gamebred dogs.
Feeding a dog only chicken is not a balanced diet and I thought that would have cause this but I wanted Shana's input. Most puppies do not tolerate high protein at a young age you get all kinds of weird things.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

One thing I might suggest to supplement your diet is the gluco/chondroiton. I use this with my dog. Also, find the right balance like PK said above. The yogurt won't hurt, just remember to use everything in moderation. Too much of anything can have an adverse effect.

Glucosamine is found in the cartilage and synovial fluid, already in your joints. It is a normal constituent(sp?) of your dog's glycosaminoglycans, which make up part of the connecting tissue. It has anti inflammatory and regenerating properties, and is also a preventative supplement.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

NEVER GIVE A PUPPY Glucosamin and condrotin. They do not need it and it can cause more harm than good in a growing puppy. Any performance vet will tell you not to use those unless the dog is mature and needs them. Even the puppy foods or large breeds that have that in it are not good for them. It is a marketing ploy and they have done studies that proved they can cause damage. I would write more but I have to get back to packing for the show.

Oz your pup does not need that and IMO i would take him off of it. 

With what your dog has if it is nutritional less is more. Do not supplement just put him on a lower protein till you can get past this then find a good diet to put him on afterwords.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

i buy my raw diet pre made. i dontknow a whole lot abnout what goes in it but its more then raw meat and bone. i know they throw things in like raw veggies like squash and peas and all that good stuff. but some veggies are bad for dogs. people also add suppliments to raw diet as well. i feed my dog raw diet and kibble.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

So Ia was going back through some article I have about performance animals and I found what I was looking for. It has not shown beneficial to give a healthy dog under the age of one joint supplements. It would be like giving a 2 year old child join supplements, it is just not needed unless they had joint issues already or degeneration. The problem above does not have joint issues and is too young for a supplement like that. and for the life of me I cannot find the study that was talking about over doing joint meds in pups. Maybe I will find it when I have more time.


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

ok...here are many pics from some different angles...talked to my breeder...he said they would grow out of it...but i put my dog back on Orijen Puppy...let me know what you think


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)




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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

He has really bad broken down pasterns, again take him off the high protein puppy food that is what caused this along with the raw diet. I already explained what food to put him on but if you do not change foods it could get worse. What is the protein content of the food you are feeding now?


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

hes on origen...supposedly one of the best (top 3) foods for dogs...no grain, and all real ingredients

40% protein, 20% fat

its the puppy formula


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

It's a great food for only certain types of dogs... ones that are large and are VERY active. Switch foods immediately. you should only need around 26ish percent


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

have you found out why he's losing his hair on his tail?


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

his hair on his tail seems fine...i think thats just the sun reflection


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

oh ok I wasn't sure if you had a skin issue going on too. I hope he gets better, and keep us posted!


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

yeah...ill try switching him over to a kibble that has less protein...and limit hard surface time

any other ideas and suggestions are appreciated...

will also talk to a vet when I go this weekend to get his ears retaped


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

chiakong said:


> hes on origen...supposedly one of the best (top 3) foods for dogs...no grain, and all real ingredients
> 
> 40% protein, 20% fat
> 
> its the puppy formula


Theirs your problem, 40% is way too much for a puppy also the diet of just chicken you were feeding lacked in nutrition. I feel like I am repeating my self.....


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

I get you...I just find it odd...some people say all you need is raw meat for optimum diet, others say kibble is good while others think its cheap food...

ill take your advices since it hasn't worked out too well at this point going purely raw meat


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

what do you feed?


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## Bully_Boy_Joe (Jul 7, 2008)

Idon't thingk she is knocking the fact that you feed raw, just the fact that its only raw chicken. I mean think about it if you only eat pork chop and rice everday your body will be lack so many other nutrients. There is a guide to feeding raw in order to recieve the best outcome. anywho for the time being take Lisa's advice SOON so your dog can began to get those pasterns back upright.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

Bully_Boy_Joe said:


> Idon't thingk she is knocking the fact that you feed raw, just the fact that its only raw chicken. I mean think about it if you only eat pork chop and rice everday your body will be lack so many other nutrients. There is a guide to feeding raw in order to recieve the best outcome. anywho for the time being take Lisa's advice SOON so your dog can began to get those pasterns back upright.


well said!!!! too much of one thing can be bad. raw meat is not enough unless the dog is like 100% wild wolf...and even they are known to eat vegggie. not as often as meat but it is part of thier diet. raw meat and only raw meat will not give a pet dog everything it needs. with a more balanced diet dogs are able to develop well. there is nothing wrong with giving raw chicken or beef as long as there is something else to balance everything out. just a tip never give raw pork...you probobly already know tho.


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## Howardsperformancek9 (Feb 11, 2009)

Like the above poster mentioned: Put pup on a puppy food that is around 26% protein, or less. Make sure he gets plenty of sunlight. Put his food/water bucket up high, so he has to stand up straight to eat/drink(if possible on his tip toes). It could be a genetic thing, if the pup is bully lines.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

umm did you say that the breeder has had issues with this in other puppies they bred? (i am assuming that is what you mean as you said the breeder said he will grow out of it)


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

the breeder has not noticed anything like that in his dogs...he just said that all the odd looking things have always turned out normal for him...

im putting the dog on kibble with lower protein...

can anyone suggest a good raw diet? my dog is around 20 lbs...


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

:goodpost:
I had a similar thing happen with one of my pups and she was only on 30% protein. I put her on adult food at 26% and it cleared up in a few weeks. She had the opposite problem she was knuckling over. Some dogs can tolerate high protein and some cannot. I know ppl who feed raw but only after the dog is like over 10 months. I feed Kirkland chicken and rice from costco and I have performance dogs and conformation dogs and they look great and are very healthy. Sometimes the most expensive food is not always the best. But the best food for your dog is a food they do good on. 
Good luck with your pup let us know how it goes.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Here are some good raw diet sites
natural homemade dog and cat food. Introduction - raw meat diet for pets.

This is taken from another forum from someone that really knows raw, i hope this helps.

I know with Sydney I continued to feed one small meal of kibble a day until I understood more about her and what she needed/required...now she is on 100% raw diet with some supplements.

As far as RMB I think Natures Variety sells them, but they are so stupid expensive...I stick to the chicken backs for that because they tend to be very boney anyway and have small bones. I have never had an incident of her swollowing too big of a piece of bone, which I have had happend with a lamb bone/beef bone/pork bone(that is just my experience). Also I like rabbits...they also have small bones. If you really want to find a bone with a lot of meat I have found turkey legs have a lot and are relatively cheap.

Meats I mix into her diet on a regular basis...chicken backs, turkey necks, turkey wings, rabbit, lamb, jack mackeral, beef liver (sometimes chicken), beef hearts...I have heard of someone on another forum using Emu, but I dunno where you get that and it sounds pricey!

I also make "ruffiage cupcakes" with various fresh fruits and veggies, and this is where I also incorporate the jack mackeral, beef liver, whole organic free range eggs, apple cider vinegar and yogurt (for digestion)

Raw Food Pit Bull Diets for Beginners

BARF for Beginners - Most Frequently Asked Questions

Here is a list I keep on hand of some of the meats, etc. I like to use to make sure I keep mixing it up. I also try to use a variety of fruits and veggies as well depends on what is in season:

MEATS: 
- You want to make sure you are giving a variety of meats. Domestic and game. 
- You want to make sure you are giving bone with bone marrow (not ones you can get in pet smart that have been bowled, they can and will damage teeth) you want the bone raw because it has enough give for the dogs to be able to chew on and stiff enough to help with cleaning of teeth. 
- You want to make sure you are giving enough organ meat.

Domestic Meats: 
- Chicken w/ bone like chicken back & neck (use chicken as the filler meat in the diet but not use as the only meat), gizzards, heart
- Turkey w/ bone like turkey back & neck & wings
- Pork w/ bone 
- Beef w/ bone, heart, liver and tripe green (not bleached) & hamburger
- Lamb w/ bone (bit expensive but worth it if can get for a good price) do not over feed this meat as it is very oily 
- Fish = mackeral, sardines (great for skin)

Game Meat: 
- Rabbit w/ bone 
- Deer w/ bone 
- Boar if you do not want to use pork but highly expensive and very salty and oily ( not one to use alot of)

**when feeding pork or other game meats make sure of quality, or freeze for 30 days in a deep freeze**

Veggies: 
- Broccilli (not alot)
- Califlower 
- Squash 
- Carrots
- Green Beans
- Kelp
- Collard Greens

Fruits: 
- Melon
- Cantolope
- Berries
- Apples
- Bananas

Grains: (optional) great way to put on weight, maintain weight if you are working the dog) 
- Brown / White Rice 
- Rolled Oats

Dairy: 
- Cottage Cheese 
- Yogurt

Misc: 
- Malassas 
- Apple Cider Vinegar 
- Supplements

I myself do not grind my bone and meats as I like the dogs to have something to chew for working on the teeth. 
I blend up everything that is not w/ bone like 
- heart 
- liver 
- hamburger
- fish
- veggies
- fruits
- rice (make sure you cook the rice to open the cell structure so they can digest it) 
- Oats
- misc


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I feed raw, but only for my adult dogs. I tried my puppies on it for about 2 weeks and I wasn't satisfied with the results because it was obvious in their body structure at the end of the second week that they needed a different "menu" than the adult dogs because Puppies bodies call for different numbers in nutrients than adult dogs. I would stick with a good quality kibble until they are at least a year old IMO. Lisa uses Kirklands Puppy formula which you can pick up at costco or I use Dick Van Pattens L.I.D. Venison and Sweet potato.


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## hell no they wont go (Oct 4, 2007)

i buy oma's pride raw diet. i get it from a doggie day care/training facility tho.


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## Bully_Boy_Joe (Jul 7, 2008)

I had Apollo on daimond until he did pretty good, but his coat wasn all that, so I switched him to TOTW pacific stream and he is doing a lot better and really likes the taste.


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

Just got back from the Vet for his ear retape. They noticed the weak pasterns, and that his feet were splayed a little bit. I was told by the nurses to get him on some calcium supplements as well as general supplements. Any thoughts?

Switching from Raw to Orijen and now to either Taste of The Wild Pacific or Diamond Beef (Possibly Artemis Fresh Mix Adult)


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

pup is now on innova adult...

vet had me put the pup on 2 supplements...2 servings daily of petcal for calcium, and canine plus.


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

here are pictures of my pup as a youngster...around 10-14 weeks

he hasnt gotten noticeably better after switching to adult innova kibble with pet-cal and multi-vitamin supplement. I don't care about the looks of his leg, as long as it doesnt harm him, gets worse, or effects his ability to work. Let me know if you think it is apparent from early on. Thanks.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

What is the % on the protein for the adult food?


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## chiakong (Sep 21, 2009)

protein is listed at 24%...the lowest of the premium foods I had to choose from


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