# Sticky  How Do I Get Papers??



## Tanker

So my wife and I and 4 month old baby girl, was so lucky to have a beautiful puppy given to us by my step brother, he did not get them papered but said that I could he just didnt want to pay the money since he gave Tank to us! 
So how do I go about getting him papers? my brother said that he is pure blood!! thanx for info!!


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## OldFortKennels

You would need the fathers and mothers Registered Names and numbers at a bare minimum. What association?


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## Tanker

I found out that the father is papered but the mother is not. So now im gonna find out where the father is papered from and go from there.. So how do I go about doing that? Since the mother is not papered?


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## GSDBulldog

Tanker said:


> I found out that the father is papered but the mother is not. So now im gonna find out where the father is papered from and go from there.. So how do I go about doing that? Since the mother is not papered?


If the mother is not papered, you cannot get papers from any legit registry.

You can, however, spay/neuter your pup and do a limited registration with the AKC or UKC if you were hoping to compete in sporting events.


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## napo123

*Papers*

GSD i would like to know more about that because I got a dog with no papers but I want to get him into weight pulling does he need them? If so how do I make it happen?


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## Patch O' Pits

UKC
Scroll down to read the section on Limited registration
http://www.ukcdogs.com/Registration.htm


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## Tanker

Hmm that sucks, oh well no competion for Tank just being a good family dog!!
thanks for the help though..


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## Patch O' Pits

Tanker said:


> Hmm that sucks, oh well no competion for Tank just being a good family dog!!
> thanks for the help though..


 He can compete you just have to get him neutered :thumbsup:


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## GSDBulldog

Tanker said:


> Hmm that sucks, oh well no competion for Tank just being a good family dog!!
> thanks for the help though..


He can compete with the IWPA, but he must be altered. You can also get a limited registration with the UKC and compete in a number of other sports. Like Patch said, he must appear to be purebred and he must be altered. Read the link provided.

I pull for fun with my dogs, none of whom are papered. The IWPA doesn't hold pulls down here, but my ADBA club allows me to pull at fun events.


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## Patch O' Pits

ADBA:
http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fpid=59&pg=59

IWPA
http://www.iwpa.net/


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## italianwjt

i have a question, "niko" is registered with adba, and ckc. i know if i send in his petegree i can get him registered through ukc (just have to give him a second name with niko), can i do the same for akc? if so, how? i went to the akc.org, but was unable to find anything on how to register if you have papers from another club.

(sorry not trying to take over your thread, figured it was on the same lines though).


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## GSDBulldog

No, the AKC's studbooks are closed. You can't register an APBT with the AKC. But you can take an AKC AmStaff and register it with the UKC.


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## Patch O' Pits

italianwjt said:


> i have a question, "niki" is registered with adba, and ckc. i know if i send in his petegree i can get him registered through ukc (just have to give him a second name with niki), can i do the same for akc? if so, how? i went to the akc.org, but was unable to find anything on how to register if you have papers from another club.
> 
> (sorry not trying to take over your thread, figured it was on the same lines though).


You can reg him with UKC using the ADBA papers by doing a single registration. You fill out a form take a couple of pictures and have an evaluator look at him. You'll have to wait until he is a year old to do this. Unlike a limited reg with a single registration you get a "Full" registration so you can show and work in the UKC events
scroll down to Single reg section and read what is required
http://www.ukcdogs.com/Registration.htm

The CKC papers mean nothing IMO.
CKC is one of the registries that does not require any proof of heritage toregistrer so any one can register anything and say ir is an APBT

UKC and ADBA are APBT registries that are considered to be reputable

AKC is a great org if you have an Amstaff or other breed they accept. To have an AKC dog both Parents must be reg with AKC or one of the registries they accept. They do Not accept dogs who are reg as APBTs as Amstaffs though ironically that is how they started their reg for Amstaffs by reg APBTs since there was no such thing as an Amstaff until they did so


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## Judy

Making this a sticky as there is a lot of good info here.


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## rade

Hi!
@ Tanker, you can try to register your dog here:
http://www.europeanpit.org/european/inglese/pag_htm/registrazioni.htm

greetz rade


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## d0ggmann

rade said:


> Hi!
> @ Tanker, you can try to register your dog here:
> http://www.europeanpit.org/european/inglese/pag_htm/registrazioni.htm
> 
> greetz rade


if u take it to a vet an a vet can sing paper i think you sould not have pre.


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## silent water kennel

rade said:


> Hi!
> @ Tanker, you can try to register your dog here:
> http://www.europeanpit.org/european/inglese/pag_htm/registrazioni.htm
> 
> greetz rade


That's the registry of my good friend Abramo, he has a lot of knowledge!!


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## American_Pit13

rade said:


> Hi!
> @ Tanker, you can try to register your dog here:
> http://www.europeanpit.org/european/inglese/pag_htm/registrazioni.htm
> 
> greetz rade


This does nothing. No reputable breeder or buyer would be involved. This does not give you a pedigree. You can not say a dog is pure by pictures. You have no idea of the dog heritage or medical conditions that her/his line may carry.

If your dog was not bred with papers and they where not givin to you buy the breeder you can not register your dog with ANY reputable registry.


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## silent water kennel

Ow, there is no registry in the world that is completely correct, not even ADBA...
But EPBC registers dogs not just by pictures, they also come to your home to see if its a real APBT.


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## American_Pit13

silent water kennel said:


> Ow, there is no registry in the world that is completely correct, not even ADBA...
> But EPBC registers dogs not just by pictures, they also come to your home to see if its a real APBT.


Lol... You can not see if a dog is real and then give it papers. You have know idea of this dogs linage. It would be very irresponsible to do any breeding with dogs registered this way. If you have just pets then it doesn't matter get them fixed who cares about papers. Papers are there to tell you what your dog has been bred from not to falsely state that your dog of unknown origin is pure. Yes all registry have "some" hung papers. That why responsible breeders deal with lines they know and have researched. Just because a dog looks apbt does not make it one.


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## NesOne

american_pit13 said:


> Lol... You can not see if a dog is real and then give it papers. You have know idea of this dogs linage. It would be very irresponsible to do any breeding with dogs registered this way. If you have just pets then it doesn't matter get them fixed who cares about papers. Papers are there to tell you what your dog has been bred from not to falsely state that your dog of unknown origin is pure. Yes all registry have "some" hung papers. That why responsible breeders deal with lines they know and have researched. Just because a dog looks apbt does not make it one.


So if it looks APBT, and you get a DNA test, will the test confirm or deny that 100%?


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## buzhunter

american_pit13 said:


> Just because a dog looks apbt does not make it one.


I wish somebody would convince the BSL supporters of that fact.


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## American_Pit13

NesOne said:


> So if it looks APBT, and you get a DNA test, will the test confirm or deny that 100%?


I don't know if DNA testing identifies breeds that way or not. More than just proving the dog is APBT you still have no idea what traits the dog carries. No idea what that dog will throw. No medical history of the parents nothing. For example these two dog had puppies. These where my first two Pitbulls. I got them before I new anything about when dog went into heat, how old to breed ect... Well me not knowing that my female would go into heat and 63 days later puppies would come I had them together and then had my first litter of puppies. I think both these dogs look great however their puppies where not so good. We had 3 pups that looked great and 6 pups that didn't even look pit with whippit heads and curled tails. All kinds of faults. some looked a bit different than other but in general all 6 where not close to being labeled as APBT.No other dog got to her either. This is just what two dog of unknown heritage produced. Another thing they produced by surprise was rednose puppies out of two black nosed parents being because both where red nosed carriers. So I got 3 rednosed puppies. Also the mother was a carrier of demodex mange so all the puppies developed terrible mange which did not appear till the puppies where in their new homes so new buyers all happy over their cute new puppies had to deal with this.








Father








Mother









Plain and simple you need to know the dogs linage to know what you are getting out of the dog. If you don't plan on breeding then papers really do not matter.


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## wheezie

american_pit13 said:


> I don't know if DNA testing identifies breeds that way or not. More than just proving the dog is APBT you still have no idea what traits the dog carries. No idea what that dog will throw. No medical history of the parents nothing. For example these two dog had puppies. These where my first two Pitbulls. I got them before I new anything about when dog went into heat, how old to breed ect... Well me not knowing that my female would go into heat and 63 days later puppies would come I had them together and then had my first litter of puppies. I think both these dogs look great however their puppies where not so good. We had 3 pups that looked great and 6 pups that didn't even look pit with whippit heads and curled tails. All kinds of faults. some looked a bit different than other but in general all 6 where not close to being labeled as APBT.No other dog got to her either. This is just what two dog of unknown heritage produced. Another thing they produced by surprise was rednose puppies out of two black nosed parents being because both where red nosed carriers. So I got 3 rednosed puppies. Also the mother was a carrier of demodex mange so all the puppies developed terrible mange which did not appear till the puppies where in their new homes so new buyers all happy over their cute new puppies had to deal with this.
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> Plain and simple you need to know the dogs linage to know what you are getting out of the dog. If you don't plan on breeding then papers really do not matter.


i agree mostly with what you are saying, but imo if the dog is goiong to a working home it is very nice to have a ped and be able to see what you can expect out of the dog


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## American_Pit13

wheezie said:


> i agree mostly with what you are saying, but imo if the dog is goiong to a working home it is very nice to have a ped and be able to see what you can expect out of the dog


With any home other than just a pet home a pedigree is great to see what is coming from your dogs linage. Even with a pet home it can be nice just because you know things about your pet like medical issues that can come up. The puppies I placed that turned out with demodex mange where pets that people ended up spending hundreds of dollars on to fix the mange. All because I wasn't aware of what my dog carried from her mother. Because I new nothing of her parents. ( Demodex mange is passed from mother to pups is why I know it was from her mother lol..)


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## silent water kennel

I'm sorry, but my english is not that good to express myself in the proper way as I would.
Anyone speaks flemish or french?!!:roll: 
But what I meant was that they do not register just apbts for breedingprograms, 
But more to have a database of good working APBT's.
But for us it's not very impotant to have papers from a registry, because we know what lineage our dogs come from and dont need any papers.
Although there is a bigger intrest of some fanciers that wants to have the pedigrees on paper. 
So we can choose between a lot of registrys in Europe such as:
-Registar
-AFDA
-ADBA Italy
-BKC
-EPBC
-Bonafide kennel club
-Register of Merit
The UKC is not very popular in Europe. Most of the APBT-fancier dont like the standard of this registry.


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## topsecret0626

Tanker said:


> So my wife and I and 4 month old baby girl, was so lucky to have a beautiful puppy given to us by my step brother, he did not get them papered but said that I could he just didnt want to pay the money since he gave Tank to us!
> So how do I go about getting him papers? my brother said that he is pure blood!! thanx for info!!


i was lucky enough to get my pit pup for 50.00. she is jeep and gotti. she has no papers either when i got her but the people i got her from told me about a registry that everyone is starting to use alot with pits. i will give you the site and check it out. there is a one time fee of 25.00 but from there on out you can register pups and all kinds of stuff. hope this helps you. it did me. www.apbr.com


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## American_Pit13

topsecret0626 said:


> i was lucky enough to get my pit pup for 50.00. she is jeep and gotti. she has no papers either when i got her but the people i got her from told me about a registry that everyone is starting to use alot with pits. i will give you the site and check it out. there is a one time fee of 25.00 but from there on out you can register pups and all kinds of stuff. hope this helps you. it did me. www.apbr.com


Thats still pointless because you have no history of your dog. You are taking something you have no proof that is pure bred and are then getting papers say that it is. Only BYBs and people who don't know any better support these types of registry's. It is no different than me looking at a pic of a dog right now and handing you papers saying it is an APBT. No proof no linage = no idea what you have. In turn they should not be registering puppies because they should not be encouraging people to breed with no history of a dog.


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## Buster

are these guys legit? http://www.pitbullregistry.com/


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## reddoggy

No. I'll PM you about it.


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## reddoggy

I love this statement by the APBR: 
By far the rarest of Pit Bulls are those that are Merle. The Merle Pit Bull is distinct in its genetics and many times exhibit unique color schemes and a trademark blue eye. The blue eye or eyes are also referred to as crystal and glass eyes. The Merle Pit Bull is the rarest and the demand for this variety is rising quickly. At the American Pit Bull Registry we are lucky to have many Merle Pits registered and are able to provide several pictures of Pit Bulls with Merle genetics. 

Pffffft!!! Basically they just said that they welcome cross breeds. ROFL!


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## legacy413

reddoggy said:


> I love this statement by the APBR:
> By far the rarest of Pit Bulls are those that are Merle. The Merle Pit Bull is distinct in its genetics and many times exhibit unique color schemes and a trademark blue eye. The blue eye or eyes are also referred to as crystal and glass eyes. The Merle Pit Bull is the rarest and the demand for this variety is rising quickly. At the American Pit Bull Registry we are lucky to have many Merle Pits registered and are able to provide several pictures of Pit Bulls with Merle genetics.
> 
> Pffffft!!! Basically they just said that they welcome cross breeds. ROFL!


I had read that too Red, and I thought that Blue eyes were supposed to be a fault.


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## BedlamBully

Blue eyes ARE a fault and merle coloring is NOT allowed. 

What a retarded registry.


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## Patch-O-Pits

... And there lies the problem with some of the pop up registries that I feel are in it more for people's money than the breed itself and will register anything as long as you pay for it. 

Merle:
http://www.apbtconformation.com/merle.htm

UKC standard:
http://www.apbtconformation.com/ukcstandard.htm

ADBA Standard:
http://www.apbtconformation.com/adbastandard.htm


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## shadowgames

I don't know the true basis of the program but the ADBA does offer some time of limited peformance registry now so the dogs can compete at the shows in the fun events. I just don't own anything like that so I don't know for sure but hit them and see what is about. At least if you can't get paper, papers, you can compete and that is all that matters. That is without knowing the family pedigree to the canine.


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## BedlamBully

shadowgames said:


> I don't know the true basis of the program but the ADBA does offer some time of limited peformance registry now so the dogs can compete at the shows in the fun events. I just don't own anything like that so I don't know for sure but hit them and see what is about. At least if you can't get paper, papers, you can compete and that is all that matters. That is without knowing the family pedigree to the canine.


I believe the dog must be spayed/neutered for a limited registration.


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## Patch-O-Pits

BedlamBully said:


> I believe the dog must be spayed/neutered for a limited registration.


 Yes, that is correct. UKC and AKC offer similar programs as well


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## 0ni

american_pit13 said:


> I don't know if DNA testing identifies breeds that way or not. More than just proving the dog is APBT you still have no idea what traits the dog carries. No idea what that dog will throw. No medical history of the parents nothing. For example these two dog had puppies. These where my first two Pitbulls. I got them before I new anything about when dog went into heat, how old to breed ect... Well me not knowing that my female would go into heat and 63 days later puppies would come I had them together and then had my first litter of puppies. I think both these dogs look great however their puppies where not so good. We had 3 pups that looked great and 6 pups that didn't even look pit with whippit heads and curled tails. All kinds of faults. some looked a bit different than other but in general all 6 where not close to being labeled as APBT.No other dog got to her either. This is just what two dog of unknown heritage produced. Another thing they produced by surprise was rednose puppies out of two black nosed parents being because both where red nosed carriers. So I got 3 rednosed puppies. Also the mother was a carrier of demodex mange so all the puppies developed terrible mange which did not appear till the puppies where in their new homes so new buyers all happy over their cute new puppies had to deal with this.
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> Plain and simple you need to know the dogs linage to know what you are getting out of the dog. If you don't plan on breeding then papers really do not matter.


american_pit13 can u explain to me a lil more on the mange thing u know that mange can not be inherited that the mother had to have had mange for the pups to have it it has nothing to dog with the dog being mix or not just to let u know so this don't happen again http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/dem.html

QUESTION: Can Demodex mites be inherited?
ANSWER: No. The mites are not present on the fetus while the fetus is developing from an embryo in the uterus. However, if the mother has Demodex mites present in/on her skin, the mites can invade the new fetus' skin immediately after birth. Since many dogs have Demodex mites present in their skin, and never actually develop noticeable skin lesions, the mother may not even be showing any signs of mites and yet transmit mites to the newborn pups. The pups may or may not develop a clinical case of mites.


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## American_Pit13

0ni said:


> american_pit13 can u explain to me a lil more on the mange thing u know that mange can not be inherited that the mother had to have had mange for the pups to have it it has nothing to dog with the dog being mix or not just to let u know so this don't happen again http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/dem.html
> 
> QUESTION: Can Demodex mites be inherited?
> ANSWER: No. The mites are not present on the fetus while the fetus is developing from an embryo in the uterus. However, if the mother has Demodex mites present in/on her skin, the mites can invade the new fetus' skin immediately after birth. Since many dogs have Demodex mites present in their skin, and never actually develop noticeable skin lesions, the mother may not even be showing any signs of mites and yet transmit mites to the newborn pups. The pups may or may not develop a clinical case of mites.


believe me I know about demodex and sacrcoptic mange very well. I never said the mange was inherited I said " Also the mother was a *carrier *of demodex mange so all the puppies developed terrible mange which did not appear till the puppies where in their new homes so new buyers all happy over their cute new puppies had to deal with this." She was carrying demodex mites which she passed to her pups that was pasted to her by her mother.


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## 0ni

i was just trying to see if u know this why do u keep adding this to reason for why u should get papered dogs because that's not because the dog was mix u can say cause the person that breed the dog did not care to much for the dogs


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## American_Pit13

I think you should read what I have posted better. I never said that is why you should get papered dogs because I have seen hundreds of papered dogs with demodex. I said this is why you should only BREED papered dog so you can see what if in that dogs history. Had I kown this dogs mother I would have known before hand that she would give her pups demodex. Had the dog had a pedigree where I could research the dogs that this dog has come from I would Know what skin and health issues the dog may have. Demodex isn't inherited genetically but it is passed from mother so Knowing the females in that dogs history You would know if she was going to have demodex.


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## 0ni

what i was trying to tell u is that that would not be in the pedigree because it just like getting the chicken pox u get it from someone in your life and then your most likely to not get it again the best pedigree dog can get it by being near a dog that has it and the pedigree wont tell u this its not genetic any dog that comes into contact with a marked dog can get it the only thing genetics can do is help it far better


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## Marie-

Thank you for the information everyone, I am so glad I found this website. I have tried countless times to discover how to register my male for weight-pulling, and -- thanks to all of you I now know!


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## mushroom-eater

This forum is very informative. It's my first time here.


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## egarciaz79

so if any pitbull wants to compete hav to hav papers.... what a bomer... i dont hav any MR T was a gift from my chik... so there is nothing i can do to get papers?


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## BedlamBully

egarciaz79 said:


> so if any pitbull wants to compete hav to hav papers.... what a bomer... i dont hav any MR T was a gift from my chik... so there is nothing i can do to get papers?


YOu can check out the Limited Privilages Program with ukc. 
United Kennel Club: Limited Privilege

The dog must be fixed to participate in this program though. Other than that No. THere is NO WAY to get papers from a REPUTABLE registry if the pups parents where not registered.


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## allaboutpitbull

their is a real legit registry just as good as ADBA and UKC they have shows and whight pull conformation show the hole 9 yards they have a realy high standar for APBT i know for a fact they are absulutly no bullies allowed they are hard on their breeders to stay true to breed staander so that a good thing atlist some one cares about preserving the breed standar and not just money


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## allaboutpitbull

confirmationdogsofamerica.sorry i forgot this is the link i have my dogs with ADBA UKC AND CDOA


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## bahamutt99

allaboutpitbull said:


> their is a real legit registry just as good as ADBA and UKC they have shows and whight pull conformation show the hole 9 yards they have a realy high standar for APBT i know for a fact they are absulutly no bullies allowed they are hard on their breeders to stay true to breed staander so that a good thing atlist some one cares about preserving the breed standar and not just money


Yuck. I only had to look as far as their breed page and see that they register a breed called *American Staffordshire Bull Terrier*. And geez, they've only got one scale of points? So the gait of a Pekingese is the same level of importance as the gait of a greyhound? Plus they'll take unregistered dogs if you have 2 witnesses. They can't even spell "standard." Sounds no better than the CKC to me. Save your money.


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## allaboutpitbull

i dient see that where dose it say american staf bull terrier i think they are great have alot of cool things and activitys hey they have my vote


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## bahamutt99

Kinda funny that the errors I mentioned in my last post are gone now. Almost like someone _read my post on here and went and changed it_. Things that make you go hmmm... Hey, aren't you in Houston, TX? And you're here promoting a hot new registry based out of Houston, TX. You both have an AOL email address, and the actual addy of the email on there has the same misspelling of "confirmation" that you made in your posts here. The URL of the website has conformation misspelled as well. I can't find any more information about the CDOA other than that website and some listings on Kijiji and Backpage.

ETA: In addition, the only non-AKC breed on there (other than the now-missing American Staffordshire Bull Terrier) is the APBT! Almost like it's a Pit Bull person running the joint, huh?

Is this registry your project?


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## allaboutpitbull

realy the f*** you tallking about see i had some respect for you till now bahumutt99 you can kill that sh** now if you dont know what you are tallking about really dont say sh** i have been to thir shows thogh like i said i am super happy with them


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## Coletrain

allaboutpitbull said:


> Really what the f*** you talking about. See I had some respect for you until now bahumutt99. You can kill that sh** now if you don't know what you are talking about. Really don't say sh**. I have been to their shows though and like _I_ said I am super happy with them.


I underlined what I fixed for you Bahumutt99. Figured it would be easier for you to read and respond. The other way made my head hurt.

Sorry couldn't help it.


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## allaboutpitbull

oh and another reson i am promoting is cuz they chook me up with free show entres and book perty cool if you ask me so yeah i say yes to CDOA just like i love ADBA AND UKC i am all for CDOA


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## bahamutt99

Let's see some pictures from these CDOA shows. Let's hear from some of the supposed 3500 breeders registered. Let's see a tax ID number or some other kind of information about this company other than that website and free ads. Rather than play the fool and cuss me over this, why don't you explain some of the discrepancies?

Why does the CDOA make the exact same spelling mistakes that you make? ("Standar," "confirmation.")

Why were the two mistakes I mentioned to you miraculously corrected by the next time you posted?

Why are you both in Houston and both on AOL? Coincidence?

Why is there no information about this "show" they're holding in April other than a city and booth #? No address, no entry fee, no names of the judges, etc.

Why is the only non-AKC breed on that list the APBT?

Why is this registry anti-bully, just like you?

Why was your *very first post* on this board promoting a hot new registry?

You can disrespect me for calling your bullshit all you like. People don't generally like getting caught in a lie. I wont shed any tears over losing the respect of a scammer.


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## ericschevy

LMFAO, Yeah it's funny that this so called new registry pops out of nowhere and you're the only one promoting it. I hate to break it to ya but you aint going to find any suckers here bud..


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## Patch-O-Pits

I'm just going to recap a bit...

Plain and simple if the pup did not come with papers because the parents were not registered, there is no reputable org that will give you them with full registration privileges on an intact dog.

This is because it is not a good idea to breed a dog of unknown heritage. Proper breeding practices require knowing what is genetically behind a dog and not guessing. Though some may want papers strictly for showing not breeding too many would take advantage of having them and not do the right thing.

There are plenty of great opportunities for working a dog with limited reg papers or in orgs that don't require the dogs to be purebred. Every so often fun classes for spay neutered dogs are also offered in the show ring.

How I see it is...
BYBs take advantage of people not understanding how the registries actually work and the pop up registries take advantage of people being desperate to get papers on their dogs.


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## bahamutt99

allaboutpitbull said:


> oh and another reson i am promoting is cuz they chook me up with free show entres and book perty cool if you ask me so yeah i say yes to CDOA just like i love ADBA AND UKC i am all for CDOA


Ahem.

The website is registered to:

Reys Belzer ([email protected])
(281) 888-6749
4800 Lamonte Ln
Houston, TX 77092-5434

The email that the CDOA website is registered to is the same email you have used to register for forums. *BUSTED!*


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## allaboutpitbull

realy any one can make some names and number up what dose that mean to me !!


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## layla_wolf22

Just get your dog fixed, get a limited priv. registration, and compete with your family dog, we have enough byb's out there to fill another country. I am not saying that you are planning on breeding your dog, but just be glad that you have a pit, he will be your eternal friend. As for the person posting about this so called conformation dogs of america, what a load of crap!!!! I wouldn't register my dog with you if you paid me!!!! Just another way for backyard breeders to go under the radar......


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## bahamutt99

allaboutpitbull said:


> realy any one can make some names and number up what dose that mean to me !!


Anybody can make up a fake registry and accept money from complete strangers, too. It means you're trying to scam people. You haven't answered a single question. Your original response of getting over-the-top upset (and then turning it like I was doing something disrespectful by putting two and two together) shows your guilt loud and clear. Since you say it's not your little project, but a check of the website showed it registered to your email address, well it means, sir, that your ethics are not as solid as they should be. I hope you didn't bilk too many people. I'll make sure to tell as many people as I can what's up.

:cop:


----------



## 619Bulls23

send in his dna find out the blood lines and go frm there.


----------



## bahamutt99

gameover23 said:


> send in his dna find out the blood lines and go frm there.


You know that's not actually possible, right? DNA can't tell you a dog's bloodline. It can only tell you if the dog is from the parents that the breeder says it's from.


----------



## atxkennels

If the parents are not registered there is no way to get real papers. But if you just want some documentation some people do the CKC but I personally feel like they are scam artists.


----------



## bahamutt99

IMO, if a person is looking for documentation to prove they're the owner of the dog, there are lots of things that can prove that. Vet records, a microchip, a tattoo. If proving ownership was the sole concern, it would be a good idea to go those routes, rather than give one's money to a fake registry. And of course, if one wants papers to weight pull or whatnot, there are always all-breed clubs like the APA and IWPA that let anyone pull.


----------



## allaboutpitbull

and their is allways CDOA


----------



## bahamutt99

CDOA: Making little dirtbag scammers rich since 2008.


----------



## ErikH

bahamutt99 said:


> Ahem.
> 
> The website is registered to:
> 
> Reys Belzer ([email protected])
> (281) 888-6749
> 4800 Lamonte Ln
> Houston, TX 77092-5434
> 
> The email that the CDOA website is registered to is the same email you have used to register for forums. *BUSTED!*


Hrmph, that's evidence enough for me. BANNED! :hammer:


----------



## 81yota

I read this posting and I saw nothing really that could help me out. I have jackson my pups mom's and dad's paper's ( hopefully have some of that information up later) and numbers but I still really saw nothing about regeristering him using their numbers all the forms that I looked at didn't make a bit of since with me. I cant remeber if his mom and dad are akc or ukc. Someone please help!


----------



## BedlamBully

The breeder should have supplied you with a puppy registration form, wether from UKC or ADBA or if AKC (which registers American Staffordshire Terriers NOT Pit Bulls  ). That is what you send in to get your puppies paperwork. Just giving you their registration numbers won't do any good.


----------



## KB24MVP

I just wanna know if mine if purebred or not, i posted some pics in the album section. someone take a look at let me know


----------



## BedlamBully

The best anyone can do it guess. Without paperwork there is ZERO way to know if the dog is purebred or not for sure.


----------



## pitbullfanatic

GSDBulldog said:


> If the mother is not papered, you cannot get papers from any legit registry.
> 
> You can, however, spay/neuter your pup and do a limited registration with the AKC or UKC if you were hoping to compete in sporting events.


False or misinformed. You can register with other registries such as the American Pit Bull Registry, CKC and others that are open registries. People may talk these services down or may not respect them as much but they are just as legitimate as any others.


----------



## pitbullfanatic

Patch O' Pits said:


> UKC
> Scroll down to read the section on Limited registration
> http://www.ukcdogs.com/Registration.htm


Limited participation, discrimination and can not breed. So why register?


----------



## American_Pit13

pitbullfanatic said:


> False or misinformed. You can register with other registries such as the American Pit Bull Registry, CKC and others that are open registries. People may talk these services down or may not respect them as much but they are just as legitimate as any others.


LMAO how is registering a pitbull by looks ligament? It is no different than you sending my a picture of a dog and me telling you its purebred.



pitbullfanatic said:


> Limited participation, discrimination and can not breed. So why register?


So that you can do something with your dog and actually compete.

You see how I made it all in one post? You don't have to go thru each thread and quote 6 people and make 6 different post picking apart every post that you disagree with... Not a good way to start off......

You also don't have to repeat the same information to each person.


----------



## pitbullfanatic

american_pit13 said:


> This does nothing. No reputable breeder or buyer would be involved. This does not give you a pedigree. You can not say a dog is pure by pictures. You have no idea of the dog heritage or medical conditions that her/his line may carry.
> 
> If your dog was not bred with papers and they where not givin to you buy the breeder you can not register your dog with ANY reputable registry.


False, this person simply does not like open registries for one reason or another. The American Pit Bull Registry, Continental Kennel Club and others are just as legitimate. One of the reasons to re-enter a dog into the registration process that has fallen out is to begin to develop its heritage as a line moves forward.

By the way I would much prefer a picture to go by than a pedigree if I had to choose one or the other in regards to purity. The best would of course be to have both. Everyone with any history with registration knows how easy it is to hang papers so papers alone mean nothing when it comes to purity.


----------



## pitbullfanatic

NesOne said:


> So if it looks APBT, and you get a DNA test, will the test confirm or deny that 100%?


This is a huge misconception with pure bred dogs perpetuated by registries to derive profit off the sales of such service to those who may be ignorant on the facts. Facts are DNA proves parentage, sex and with some tests various genetic traits such as color. If parents or any down the line are impure these tests can not reveal such. Parent impure yields impure puppy. The test will still validate as the parent but does not prove purity.


----------



## pitbullfanatic

silent water kennel said:


> I'm sorry, but my english is not that good to express myself in the proper way as I would.
> Anyone speaks flemish or french?!!:roll:
> But what I meant was that they do not register just apbts for breedingprograms,
> But more to have a database of good working APBT's.
> But for us it's not very impotant to have papers from a registry, because we know what lineage our dogs come from and dont need any papers.
> Although there is a bigger intrest of some fanciers that wants to have the pedigrees on paper.
> So we can choose between a lot of registrys in Europe such as:
> -Registar
> -AFDA
> -ADBA Italy
> -BKC
> -EPBC
> -Bonafide kennel club
> -Register of Merit
> The UKC is not very popular in Europe. Most of the APBT-fancier dont like the standard of this registry.


Add American Pit Bull Registry (APBR) as they are international. Many on this board may down talk them but this seems more out of lack of experience with their services. I have had a Pit registered with them and was very happy with the services they provided and will definitely register with them other future Pits even if they are registered elsewhere due the extras they provide that no one else in the industry does.


----------



## pitbullfanatic

BedlamBully said:


> The best anyone can do it guess. Without paperwork there is ZERO way to know if the dog is purebred or not for sure.


Even with paperwork nothing can be proved as paper hanging is quite common.


----------



## pitbullfanatic

american_pit13 said:


> LMAO how is registering a pitbull by looks ligament? It is no different than you sending my a picture of a dog and me telling you its purebred.
> 
> So that you can do something with your dog and actually compete.
> 
> You see how I made it all in one post? You don't have to go thru each thread and quote 6 people and make 6 different post picking apart every post that you disagree with... Not a good way to start off......


Sorry about picking apart each post as I am new to the service and thought it better to address each post individually so as to limit confusion. I am just more excited to talk with others regardless of their stance and wish to help as I assume is your intent. I did not mean to start bad and will work to learn the service better.

In regards to your question it is just as easily posed by saying how is registering by papers alone proof of purity. Are you denying paper hanging has taken place and still exists?

The fact is is that there is nothing that can prove purity. All of this is based on what we hope are the good intentions of the breeders people get their dogs from. We also should not be naive though and think that all breeders have the best intent regardless of the paperwork they have (or claim). 7 Generations of a bogus pedigree has less value than no pedigree at all.


----------



## pitbullfanatic

reddoggy said:


> I love this statement by the APBR:
> By far the rarest of Pit Bulls are those that are Merle. The Merle Pit Bull is distinct in its genetics and many times exhibit unique color schemes and a trademark blue eye. The blue eye or eyes are also referred to as crystal and glass eyes. The Merle Pit Bull is the rarest and the demand for this variety is rising quickly. At the American Pit Bull Registry we are lucky to have many Merle Pits registered and are able to provide several pictures of Pit Bulls with Merle genetics.
> 
> Pffffft!!! Basically they just said that they welcome cross breeds. ROFL!


This is not true. Are you aware of the Merle and its history with other registries? Are you aware when they were "removed" from other registry standards? And yes the standards changed.(HINT: ADBA-February 21, 2005) Are you aware registries that do not accept Merle pups from a litter will accept other litter mates that do not present the genetic trait? Are you aware that the ADBA has retracked on the concept of purity and now admits its lineage in their registry.

"The Position Of The American Dog Breeders Association Inc. On The Merle Color Pattern

The merle gene has existed in the history of ADBA registered dogs..."

Here is the link to their website: American Dog Breeders Association

Hurry though as they bury it deeper and deeper ever redesign they have on their site.

Although their statement is pretty much junk it does have enough information to learn that the Merle is the victim of recent discrimination and that purity is really irrelevant. Once happened with Red Nose, now it is Merles, and the trend is starting to move to blues. Do you think you are safe with a moving standard?

Are you aware that all the accusations in regards to health, the Merle trait and Pit Bulls are absolutely baseless and without any true research to back such up? Everything attributable to the Merle can in fact be tracked back to conditions of inbreeding however. Not quite as easy to fix that problem though huh.

Like them, hate them or really indifferent they are admitted pure.


----------



## Ton80pits

italianwjt said:


> i have a question, "niko" is registered with adba, and ckc. i know if i send in his petegree i can get him registered through ukc (just have to give him a second name with niko), can i do the same for akc? if so, how? i went to the akc.org, but was unable to find anything on how to register if you have papers from another club.
> 
> (sorry not trying to take over your thread, figured it was on the same lines though).


you have to look for an inspector on UKC's website and you can if get him reg with UKC if he is ADBA yes, but the inspector has to approve that the dog appears UKC standard.


----------



## Ton80pits

Rep. registries require a pedigree from another registry to prove its lineage meaning they have to have papers to be registered other registries, so basically a dog with no papers will never have papers. Without the lineage the bloodlines are not known, other registries that some speak of you just write in names, thats just as bad as hanging papers. Its all LYING. A DNA test will not prove lineage to create a pedigree. So no papers no papers which stinks but thats how it is


----------



## njpit

newbie here, but reading alot about all the old time dogmen it seems faking papers was quite common along with stealing and all types of other foul stuff, and especially about being gamebred as opposed to game so it seems to me (coming from someone with a dog with no papers, it seems almost pointless within this breed itself) especially if you got your pup from a breeder whose dogs were tested and proved "game".


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

I wouldn't say pointless by any means. It is pointless if you don't have a personal history with the breeder who doesn't have a history with the place they got their dogs from. These are not dogs to get if you're looking in the paper or online. This is a breed of dog who you need to get out there, network and educate yourself before making the purchase. There are plenty of great breeders out there who do not register their dogs by personal preference, but they have all of the documentation together TO register their dogs if they so choose to do it. 

Paper hanging happens in all breeds, but within this breed we feel that it is absolutely necessary to know where your dog comes from to identify possible issues and or evaluate what type of dog you are probably going to get.... Papers do not guarantee a quality dog, but a nicely put together pedigree/family tree gives you a little more reassurance of what your dog will come out to be. Personality and performance wise. 

Just because a dog is game bred (that even means if the parents were game tested) does not guarantee that your dog will have that trait. Breeding is a science, and most people who are doing it these days are leaving it purely up to guess work.

I hope this helps


----------



## njpit

Great Reply, I understand she might or might not be game and ill never know. Just as a Colby or Jeep bloodline was tested back then I know her bloodline albeit unknown was also. Shes not DA ...yet at least but is dominant. I would think there are alot of other quality dogs out there with no papers. It is upsetting knowing if she was show quality she couldnt participate because her family history is frowned upon in todays culture


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

You still can participate in events, but it would have to be on a limited registration through the UKC and I think the ADBA offers a similar program. The only catch is that you would have to alter your dog.


----------



## BLUE PIT BULL MAN

like spay or nuter!!


----------



## gibsonpitbulls

*how to get the papers*

you will at 3 generation back so you will need to find out were the dog comes from.


----------



## PitbullCowgirl

In less you have a copy of both his parents registration papers you will have to registered her as first generation with CKC. You will need 3 photos and two witnesses to prove she is pure. Go to CKCs or the association you are trying to register her throughs website they will have rules and guidelines for you.


----------



## bigleaguebulldog

KNOW YOUR BREEDER !!!!!!! Papers are an awesome way to keep up with your line of dogs, but they can't read. Breed the best to the best and never lie to yourself! Good luck getting things straight. Maybe try Bona Fide registry.


----------



## XtremePitbullsLongIsland

The Breeder Needs to give you the UKC/ADBA #'s of both parents.
If they do not have this, you can Register your Pup with CKC.

They Accept ANY dog as long as you send in pictures and state your dog is a PureBred.
Its about $10-$15 to do this.

In about 3-4 Buisness Days you will receive CKC Registration papers for your dog.

The only downfall is people Register NON- PureBred Dogs to try to sell their puppies for more...


----------



## Boz14

looking to register my pitty with the APBT group his mom is APBT registered and Dad is ABDA registered what website do i go to get the applications i hve read in this thread that the americanpitbullregistry.com is a hoax any new info on how to register my baby Blue ????


----------



## Firehazard

An AKC can be registered UKC, ADBA, Bonafide... I have seen bulldogs, APBTS, with all pedigrees.... LET ME TELL YOU THESE DOGS STARTED NOT LONG AGO FROM DOGS WITH NO ANCESTOR KNOWN. Before that pedigrees were kept private among individual dogmen. You can do this, go to Dog Registry Of America, Inc.&#153; The founders are members from the old school UKC and a member from the old ADBA. Gotta have picture of parents, and pup; a copy of the pedigree you do have. When they are all registered DRA then DNA TEST THEM... THIS IS FOUNDATION NECCESSITY esspecially because the idea is to after 6 generations when you have a full 4 generation pedigree submit it to the ADBA.. I would worry to much about the AKC and UKC, these dogs are distinct by their game gene, its what makes them sound. Stick with the game stock dogs for a better balanced animal. HOWEVER IF YOU ARE NOT READY TO KEEP EVERY PUP YOU HAVE! EVERY ONE. BULLDOG fever gets everyone who gets these dogs. IF I WERE IN your shoes, these dogs cost money and TIME, I would spay or neuter my pet. Like mentioned above and register to compete in agility and such. It will be cheeper in the long run, just as fulfilling and put less "pit bulls" out there than already are. Thats the most fullproof and responsible outlooks in a situation like this. Best of wishes, peace and blessings.


----------



## dozer

if i get a dna test done will adba reg if i can prove the dog is pure beed


----------



## performanceknls

No they will not. There is no DNA test to see if your dog is a pure bred dog. they only can DNA test two dogs to see if the offspring belongs to them. If the parents are not Registered with the ADBA, UKC, AKC and a few others you cannot get the digs registered with a reputable registry. Sorry


----------



## fortyfootelf

why do you have to get your dog spay or neutered in order to get those limited registration papers? my dog doenst have papers and i dont know who the mother or father are. so that is basically my only option if i wanted to get my dog active in the schulzhund competition?


----------



## FLY-SkY

is DRA a legit kennel?


----------



## cEElint

ummm wut?


----------



## FLY-SkY

Dog Registry Of America, Inc.™


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

no, the Dog Registry of America is not a reputable kennel club.


----------



## FLY-SkY

can any one give me a list of legit kennels to register my puppy


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

Unfortunately, there isn't a legit place on this earth to register dogs/puppies who's breeders didn't send out for the papers. The legitimate registries that register the 

American Pit Bull Terrier is: 

UKC
ADBA
AADR

The American Bully:
UKC (they are called pit bulls at the ukc)
ABKC

Those are your options when you look to get dogs registered or when you set out to buy a dog with papers.


----------



## FLY-SkY

if i register with CKC later can i register with UKC or the legit kennels you mentioned


----------



## gamer

FLY-SkY said:


> if i register with CKC later can i register with UKC or the legit kennels you mentioned


No the pups parents HAS to be registered with a legit kennel club to get papers with the legit kennel clubs


----------



## FLY-SkY

Ok i havent done it yet but i called BBCR(Bull Breed Coalition Registry) and i can do a single registry with BBCR then i would be allowed to do a dual registry with UKC or ABKC any thoughts


----------



## gamer

FLY-SkY said:


> Ok i havent done it yet but i called BBCR(Bull Breed Coalition Registry) and i can do a single registry with BBCR then i would be allowed to do a dual registry with UKC or ABKC any thoughts


Not with UKC and I doubt with ABKC because they are a new registry and if they did this they would be no better then these other for money registries


----------



## gamer

Bull Breed Coalition Registry is for shortybulls,



> Height: 15" and under
> 
> Weight: 40 pounds and under
> 
> Head: Round head with typical bulldog features. Eyes set far apart and should not protrude.
> 
> Jaw: should be curved, not straight. Nose should be turned up slightly and may be black or liver colored. Dudley noses are a cosmetic fault.
> 
> Bite: Undershot, but not excessively undershot
> 
> Eyes: May be any color although brown is the preferred eye color
> 
> Ears: Cropped, drop (rose or erect ears are a fault.)
> 
> Body: Should be short from back of the neck to the tail. Chest should be broad for height and have depth reaching to the elbow. A compact look is desired.
> 
> Width: front quarters and hindquarters should be proportionate, not lending to a narrow rear, and the chest may be broader that the rear, but very narrow hindquarters are a fault.
> 
> Shoulders and Rumps: Well rounded and well muscled, lending to an appearance of strength. There may be a slight rise over the loins.
> 
> Legs: Heavy boned and in direct proportion to the body. Long legs in proportion to the body or fine bones are a fault. Cow hocked or pigeon toed is a fault.
> 
> Feet: Tight feet and straight pasterns. Splayed feet are a fault.
> 
> Tail: Tail must be short, either docked or screwed.
> 
> Color: all coat colors accepted except merle or black and tan.
> 
> Temperament: Good natured and even tempered. Extreme shyness or undue aggression is unacceptable.


 yours isnt a shorty bull I dont think. Just have her spayed and get a ILP dont try to cheat your way through papers


----------



## snakebstr43

*You Can register your pit*

TANKER, You can register your pit with the CKC with photo's. I know the CKC is not a good registry but if you want papers then you can get them and they just might not be that good. But some people swear by CKC. Thanks :hammer:


----------



## FLY-SkY

ok thanks you guys


----------



## gamer

CKC is crap and anyone who breeds CKC dogs is well you know


----------



## heflinskennel

dra is a rep. registration they us to be called us kennel club they have been around for a very long time not known as much as ukc adba akc. I do know adba accepts dra paper work. I use ukc adba abkc in the past dra when starting the reg. process if you need help to get started and you know the correct info on your dog I will help you. but I am not going to help someone that just wants a pritty ped. so you must know some of the info. bonifide kennel club would be a good idea to try but I know they will not registure your dog without proof of some type of registration. now if you just want to start out with your own line because it is a pritty dog and you think it will do good to breed it. think again just love the dog give it a great home. I have used ckc as well as a back up registry and I have just found out it is just a registry for puppy mills and not worth the time nor the money spent.


----------



## william williamson

what the heck are ya'll talkin about?
you have the breeder do the forms for your dog,you mail it out and your papers come back.
anything after that is paper hanging.
are ya'll really serious? A picture, you can send someone a picture and some "expert" will look at it and send you some crap back that says your dog is the be all end all full blooded,WHAT?
cheekachookachukamunga bulldog?
please,everyone in class with A dog registered like this,




burn the papers.


----------



## fishinrob

Send me 50 bucks and a photo and I'll print up whatever you want.


----------



## wild_deuce03

fishinrob said:


> Send me 50 bucks and a photo and I'll print up whatever you want.


:rofl: +1 Shoot, I'll do it for $40.  LOL!


----------



## aprilortego

LOL, I am so confused so I am not even going to try and join in lol


----------



## wild_deuce03

snakebstr43 said:


> TANKER, You can register your pit with the CKC with photo's. I know the CKC is not a good registry but if you want papers then you can get them and they just might not be that good. But some people swear by CKC. Thanks :hammer:





william williamson said:


> what the heck are ya'll talkin about?
> you have the breeder do the forms for your dog,you mail it out and your papers come back.
> anything after that is paper hanging.
> are ya'll really serious? A picture, you can send someone a picture and some "expert" will look at it and send you some crap back that says your dog is the be all end all full blooded,WHAT?
> cheekachookachukamunga bulldog?
> please,everyone in class with A dog registered like this,
> 
> burn the papers.





fishinrob said:


> Send me 50 bucks and a photo and I'll print up whatever you want.





wild_deuce03 said:


> :rofl: +1 Shoot, I'll do it for $40.  LOL!





aprilortego said:


> LOL, I am so confused so I am not even going to try and join in lol


Here you go. You're welcome.


----------



## aprilortego

wild_deuce03 said:


> Here you go. You're welcome.


Thanks Ryan :smile:

So basically, I can pay you 40 bucks (sorry fishinrob times are tough lol) and you will make a pedigree saying I have a Top Notch APBT??? lmfao

Can you also, do one for my husband saying he is a great cleaner and really romantic????? Please


----------



## wild_deuce03

aprilortego said:


> Thanks Ryan
> 
> So basically, I can pay you 40 bucks (sorry fishinrob times are tough lol) and you will make a pedigree saying I have a Top Notch APBT??? lmfao
> 
> Can you also, do one for my husband saying he is a great cleaner and really romantic????? Please


:rofl::rofl:LMAO!!!


----------



## heflinskennel

how is wanting to register your dog and willing to help someone in the process paper hanging? all i did was offer to help someone get their dog registered and only if they know the correct info. I had to go through this once with my grandfather's line. he had stoped registering his dogs in 1978 with adba and he kept his own records. But since he stopped registering and i wanted to show his dogs when I got them after he passed away I had to go through a lot of work to legitimately register them. my grandmother sat down with me and helped me register them. Like i said before, only if they know the correct info would i help them. There are alot of people that have kept up with their breedings but refused or just simply did not have the money to register their dogs and cared nothing about showing them. I went through alot of crap and money with the registries to get it done but I have it and it was well worth the time and effort my grandmother and I put into it to have it done. I also have my dogs dna profiled so there is no miscommunication. I understand why poeple say paper hang this and paper hang that. but you know not everyone is a paperhanger just because they want their dogs registered. what i dont understand is why would you just fix your dog just so you can show or have the dogs shown in sport events. that is what fun shows are all about or your back yard. now I am all for wanting to have the dogs fixed if it has an unknown concrete pedigree or if you want to just keep it as a pet. but to have someone tell someone else you cant enjoy your dog unless it is fixed is just pure crap to me. (what is the point of having to pay someone to limit registration just to show your dog) again if you have concrete proof of the pedigree it is well worth the time and effort if not dont bother with registering the dog and just enjoy it.


----------



## william williamson

in your case,not uniqe,but seldom seen.usually by folks back in the day who were less than forthcoming about perticular dog,they were either not registered,or under pseudos.that was another aspect of gaming with the gamedog.
what you did,DNA,pass downs of line dogs etc. etc. is commendable.
yet,by your own admission,you had handwritten documents.
on another thread I posted about seeing dogs with handwrittens,both from the early 1900's and from the old countries,to up closer,with folks like your grandpa.
what irks me above,is that it comes out so shady the diversionary tactics that are in play with these new registries.
for someone who understands the process of registering,and getting your blood back in the play,why would you become involved in something that doesn't smell right.
you busted yours and grannies as$ getting your honest deal done and you would help someone slip A mickey into someone elses lines?it ruins the formation that many took time to build.
again,I know what they did in the way back.the thing is,when they did it it was to slip a stifle dog in out west once he ran through the east coast dogs.you couldn't get matches for some dogs that were wrecking machines.they would get 1 or 2 W's and folks would see this he!!fire and brimstone dog and they'd pass on the show.
so they had to do things covertly.
yet in the end when it GC'ed everyone knew or was let into the loop.
we didn't have cell phones,and quick photo methods and the internet.
it was expensive long distance,snail mail,or word of mouth.which was usually tight lipped.
how would someone with old blood like you seem to have know anything about bully registries anyway?
are you performing A gamedog sacreligious act?and takin granddads dogs and makin side meat are ya?


----------



## heflinskennel

william williamson said:


> in your case,not uniqe,but seldom seen.usually by folks back in the day who were less than forthcoming about perticular dog,they were either not registered,or under pseudos.that was another aspect of gaming with the gamedog.
> what you did,DNA,pass downs of line dogs etc. etc. is commendable.
> yet,by your own admission,you had handwritten documents.
> on another thread I posted about seeing dogs with handwrittens,both from the early 1900's and from the old countries,to up closer,with folks like your grandpa.
> what irks me above,is that it comes out so shady the diversionary tactics that are in play with these new registries.
> for someone who understands the process of registering,and getting your blood back in the play,why would you become involved in something that doesn't smell right.
> you busted yours and grannies as$ getting your honest deal done and you would help someone slip A mickey into someone elses lines?it ruins the formation that many took time to build.
> again,I know what they did in the way back.the thing is,when they did it it was to slip a stifle dog in out west once he ran through the east coast dogs.you couldn't get matches for some dogs that were wrecking machines.they would get 1 or 2 W's and folks would see this he!!fire and brimstone dog and they'd pass on the show.
> so they had to do things covertly.
> yet in the end when it GC'ed everyone knew or was let into the loop.
> we didn't have cell phones,and quick photo methods and the internet.
> it was expensive long distance,snail mail,or word of mouth.which was usually tight lipped.
> how would someone with old blood like you seem to have know anything about bully registries anyway?
> are you performing A gamedog sacreligious act?and takin granddads dogs and makin side meat are ya?


I loved pitbulls even before I knew what a pit bull was. I have seen small to large dogs gamie looking to bully dogs out of each litter. I have been to ukc adba shows and have had my dogs not win because they were to small in hight and weight to tall and thick and many other reasons as anyone who has been around this breed for a long time and I mean long time not just four five or ten years. there are many bully bred dogs I will not even touch and bully dogs I would love to introduse into my line for one reason or another. bully is a fad a preffence in the size and look. I have had dogs that looked like a lab to dogs that looked like american bull dogs but smaller out of the same litter. this breed american pit bull american bully amstaff (york dogs edge dogs my dogs eli bred gator bred) they all look different and have been and always will. when I took over I wanted to work on what i liked and wanted my dogs to look like from a more correct looking larger size dog to a more showing style smaller dog it is h*ll and takes a long time to get what you are looking for to take all aspects of your dogs and line and conbine them into one substan.looking standard not sure if you know what i mean if you want me to explain farther email me and i will explain in more detail. [email protected]


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## heflinskennel

william williamson said:


> in your case,not uniqe,but seldom seen.usually by folks back in the day who were less than forthcoming about perticular dog,they were either not registered,or under pseudos.that was another aspect of gaming with the gamedog.
> what you did,DNA,pass downs of line dogs etc. etc. is commendable.
> yet,by your own admission,you had handwritten documents.
> on another thread I posted about seeing dogs with handwrittens,both from the early 1900's and from the old countries,to up closer,with folks like your grandpa.
> what irks me above,is that it comes out so shady the diversionary tactics that are in play with these new registries.
> for someone who understands the process of registering,and getting your blood back in the play,why would you become involved in something that doesn't smell right.
> you busted yours and grannies as$ getting your honest deal done and you would help someone slip A mickey into someone elses lines?it ruins the formation that many took time to build.
> again,I know what they did in the way back.the thing is,when they did it it was to slip a stifle dog in out west once he ran through the east coast dogs.you couldn't get matches for some dogs that were wrecking machines.they would get 1 or 2 W's and folks would see this he!!fire and brimstone dog and they'd pass on the show.
> so they had to do things covertly.
> yet in the end when it GC'ed everyone knew or was let into the loop.
> we didn't have cell phones,and quick photo methods and the internet.
> it was expensive long distance,snail mail,or word of mouth.which was usually tight lipped.
> how would someone with old blood like you seem to have know anything about bully registries anyway?
> are you performing A gamedog sacreligious act?and takin granddads dogs and makin side meat are ya?


buy the way I said only if you have concrete info on the dogs pedigree. like with me I have my grandfathers adba paper work from the dogs that he last registurd. well I should say baught he never transferd the dog into his name


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## buzhunter

dogpapers.com lol didn't really expect that but i should have.


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## heflinskennel

buzhunter said:


> dogpapers.com lol didn't really expect that but i should have.


not sure why you had to add your two cents in but its all good yes that is the name of the website. I understand everyones uncertanity of other registries as most are with the pureity of bully breed in its self but yet everyone jumped on the band wagon and said dave wilson is the creator of the breed. please I give him his props he is one heck of a B-SH*tter and can talk anyone into buying a turd for $1000 buy saying its a one of a kind. but in honsety the bully breed has been around for longer then any of us have been alive. now with saying this I will say this if it wasnt for the fact that leagaly fighting dogs is a no no. and other then showing our dogs there realy isnt much to do with them if they are not of standard. and this is the only thing i will say on dave behaff and take it as anyone wants to and twist what I am saying as most people will the only thing dave did for the breed (style) is give this style a place to be them selves. now back the the dra (dogpapers.com) they are more of a reputable registry then abkc for they have been around longer was created buy ukc and adba members. but sence they have not boasted on the fact that they are a registry. unlike ckc (puppymill registry) and the abkc who hasnt stayed in the some place for longer then two years. but yet everyone thinks they are the best. and yes I do use ukc adba and abkc these days so i know what i am talking about. but untill abkc gets one location and stays there I will not registure any more threw them bully or not I have soft ware here that I can start my own registry but do I no I do use it to inter all of my dogs info and pedigree's and I do print out a certifcate along with ukc adba and abkc regitration to the new owners of the dog or puppy so I know when and if i want to breed back to this god I will know who has it and proof that this dog came from my yard. any other comments that people feel the need to make I am willing to respond to them as well. I have a breeding program that will keep me bussy for the next 8 years as of right now. and i dont just buy dogs from other people just to say i have this and that. good luck to all


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## william williamson

I've had pits for a minute.almost 33 years worth of minutes.
I understand just a smidgen.
you stated your granddad stopped registerin in 1978.thats around when I got my first dog,pit.
moved from miami shortly after and got up into the pit world.
if your grand dad campaigned dogs in the S.E.,the carolinas,virginia,tennessee, and Georgia I've probably met,or seen him.


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## Sadie

The only registries I would consider Legit are as follows

ADBA THE ADBA

United Kennel Club: Home UKC

Bona Fide Kennel Club Bona Fide Kennel Club - Owned by Carl Mims

The American Bully Registry ABKC

http://www.akc.org/ The AKC

Anything else I would stay away from JMO


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## buzhunter

heflinskennel said:


> not sure why you had to add your two cents in but its all good yes that is the name of the website. I understand everyones uncertanity of other registries as most are with the pureity of bully breed in its self but yet everyone jumped on the band wagon and said dave wilson is the creator of the breed. please I give him his props he is one heck of a B-SH*tter and can talk anyone into buying a turd for $1000 buy saying its a one of a kind. but in honsety the bully breed has been around for longer then any of us have been alive. now with saying this I will say this if it wasnt for the fact that leagaly fighting dogs is a no no. and other then showing our dogs there realy isnt much to do with them if they are not of standard. and this is the only thing i will say on dave behaff and take it as anyone wants to and twist what I am saying as most people will the only thing dave did for the breed (style) is give this style a place to be them selves. now back the the dra (dogpapers.com) they are more of a reputable registry then abkc for they have been around longer was created buy ukc and adba members. but sence they have not boasted on the fact that they are a registry. unlike ckc (puppymill registry) and the abkc who hasnt stayed in the some place for longer then two years. but yet everyone thinks they are the best. and yes I do use ukc adba and abkc these days so i know what i am talking about. but untill abkc gets one location and stays there I will not registure any more threw them bully or not I have soft ware here that I can start my own registry but do I no I do use it to inter all of my dogs info and pedigree's and I do print out a certifcate along with ukc adba and abkc regitration to the new owners of the dog or puppy so I know when and if i want to breed back to this god I will know who has it and proof that this dog came from my yard. any other comments that people feel the need to make I am willing to respond to them as well. I have a breeding program that will keep me bussy for the next 8 years as of right now. and i dont just buy dogs from other people just to say i have this and that. good luck to all


You can try and justify your program all day long and I ain't never going to buy it. Not the first time I've heard the "my grandpa was a dogman" pitch.


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## heflinskennel

beleave what you want hos I dont give a crap if you buy or even if i sell a dog I dont breed for anyone but myself anyways.


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## heflinskennel

my grand father use to get his dogs in florida from luke D. lewis and if I am not mistaken now breeds rotties till this day. my grand fathers name is edison mullin's


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## OnyxLuvsMe

*How do I get my pits registered???*

I have 2 pits which I love dearly. The female is from the Beaudreaxus bloodline. The male is AMStaff. Neither their parents nor them were registered. The people we got them from stated that they are pure but their previous ancestors were never registered for one reason or another. I would love to get them registered. How do I go about in getting this done? Please help!!!!:woof:


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## pitbullmamanatl

OnyxLuvsMe said:


> I have 2 pits which I love dearly. The female is from the Beaudreaxus bloodline. The male is AMStaff. Neither their parents nor them were registered. The people we got them from stated that they are pure but their previous ancestors were never registered for one reason or another. I would love to get them registered. How do I go about in getting this done? Please help!!!!:woof:


I responded to your introduction in the intro section


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## bellasdad

i am also intersted in a first generation pedigree. i was a **** hunter for a long time and the kennel clubs did "proving" of dogs where you would hunt you dog for the pedigree and first gen pedigrees were highly desired because it was a strengent process that improved the breed. if no one will register new lines then how do you get new lines? imbreeding? that brings out unwanted qualities. it is obvious that mix breeding is going on w/ pits because of the size some of these dogs are getting to, and the markings are a diffinate give away. tell me how someone can have a 125 lb pit that looks like a rott? or a pit that has the markings of a rot but is very short. some of you guys need to get off your high horse with your my dogs pedigree goes back 12 generations crap, go back further than that 12 gens and youll see mixing of breeds to get this breed


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## motocross308

there is plenty of blood out there to keep far enough away from inbreeding . you dont need to be too far removed in dogs .. thier DNA differs from humans.


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## mlhannah

so i have read through the entire thread and i have come to the conclusion that if i want to get my non registered puppy into weight pulling i either have to get him neutered or i cant do it? i love my pup and i would like a pup from him not to keep breading him but just one in the event (many years from now) he passes on. so its either ont or the other??


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## motocross308

mlhannah said:


> so i have read through the entire thread and i have come to the conclusion that if i want to get my non registered puppy into weight pulling i either have to get him neutered or i cant do it? i love my pup and i would like a pup from him not to keep breading him but just one in the event (many years from now) he passes on. so its either ont or the other??


ok , you have to ask yourself what your pup has that makes him worth putting a bitch thru dangerous labor for and what the unregistered pups would have that would assure all of them got adopted when thousands get the touch of a stainless table and red juice ? 
Now would you enjoy watchin your pup get put down cuz noone would take care of him ? 
then why suffer his pup the same possible fate ?
If he by chance passes on .. there are a ton of pup out there that are bred to do exactly what you are looking to do! 
Or tons of pups on death row you could save .. cuz someone wanted a pup.
not tryin to be harsh and it is more than awsome you wanna get your dog pullin! stick around here and if you pup happens to pass or you get the itch for another dog .. then youll have a great idea how to find one that fits when the time comes!
http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/33678-sad-but-true.html
give that a read .. you may understand more of wer im comin from


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## performanceknls

mlhannah said:


> so i have read through the entire thread and i have come to the conclusion that if i want to get my non registered puppy into weight pulling i either have to get him neutered or i cant do it? i love my pup and i would like a pup from him not to keep breading him but just one in the event (many years from now) he passes on. so its either ont or the other??


UKC may be doing away with their WP program but if they do not you could pull your dog if you neuter him.
You cannot pull in the ADBA because he is not registered.
If you want to keep him intact you can register with IWPA and APA they are weight pulling venues and you can keep your dog intact. You can also check into the NKC if they will allow you to register without getting fixed and still pull. So there are options to WP without getting your dog fixed. I think breeding just to get a dog from your dog is not a good enough reason but he is your dog and you make that decision.


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## kulou

Making this a sticky as there is a lot of good info here.


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## bluepitbullchick90

pappers are also for showing. maybe this person wants to show. i mess with a lot of papers bc i rescue horses its the same for dogs. my question is how do i get the bloodlines of a rescued pit bull? is there a blood test that can be done? is there anything i can do i have people lined up at my door to breed to this dog and i wount bc i dont know his lines. i dont want to be irresponcible. i want to know. how do i get him registered.? he was recued by me no i dont know the owners dont care to. yes he was being trained to fight, he was starved to death i think i have a right to this dogs papers. i have saved him from a lot of things. and when its time for him to go i want a pup so can anyone help me out with that.


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## Kingsgurl

No, there is not a blood test that will allow you to get papers on your rescued dog. Papers don't just say 'this dog is purebred' Papers are a pedigree, a written record of the dogs ancestry, who his parents were, who their parents before them were. Was he papered with the previous owners?

Thanks for rescuing! Since you have seen first hand how many of these dogs end up, I hope you will do the right thing and neuter your boy. Everyone always wants to breed, everyone LOVES puppies, not so much dogs. The breed is facing an epidemic and thousands die every day in the shelters. Responsible homes who will keep that adorable, squishy puppy past 9 months to a year are few and far between. A puppy from your boy would not be your boy, it would be it's own individual.

Good luck and thanks for rescuing once again


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## countryboy kennels

Is there a way to register with out knowing anything about the mom or dad, ( I.e. DNA texting) ?


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## dixieland

nope.the only way to get papers on a dog is if it's parents are registered.if you know nothing about the parents then there's no way to even know if they have papers or are even full blooded


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## nina2013

I bought a pitbull pup she was 5 weeks old when i purchaced her. I was told she would have papers, but now that i have paid the 600$ for her. Now the dad of the pups "won't call back the owner of the mother". I have in writing where the owner of the mother says that the pups would have papers. Any suggestions on what i can do in this situation? Help please. & i thank you


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## Princesspaola21

nina2013 said:


> I bought a pitbull pup she was 5 weeks old when i purchaced her. I was told she would have papers, but now that i have paid the 600$ for her. Now the dad of the pups "won't call back the owner of the mother". I have in writing where the owner of the mother says that the pups would have papers. Any suggestions on what i can do in this situation? Help please. & i thank you


Note to self for further purchases. Don't hand over money on a deal like that until you have papers in hand.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## nina2013

Thanks, thats why you don't trust your "friends". I was wondering since i have in writing that she would have papers, i'm not sure what the court system would do about it, if anything since i live in a state where pitbull has a bad rep. just because.


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## Just Tap Pits

Youre a victim of fraud. Go to small claims court. Breed wont matter in your civil suit. Animal's are property and you had a contract.


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## Noja

*Advice needed*

Has anyone had dealings with a registry called APBR? If so, can anyone tell me if they're legit or fly by night?


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## pitso

nina2013 said:


> Thanks, thats why you don't trust your "friends". I was wondering since i have in writing that she would have papers, i'm not sure what the court system would do about it, if anything since i live in a state where pitbull has a bad rep. just because.


Does the contract specifically state what papers were going to be handed to you? Or does it just say "papers"?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## charlie taylor

My name is Charlie and I would like to know how would I go about finding the bloodlines of my pitbull puppys and getting the papers on them.


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## ThaLadyPit

charlie taylor said:


> My name is Charlie and I would like to know how would I go about finding the bloodlines of my pitbull puppys and getting the papers on them.


Usually, starting your own thread will get you more responses. However, I'll go ahead and answer here.

If you did not receive registration papers with your pup from the breeder or person you got your pup from, then you will not be able to get any info the pup regarding bloodlines, or registration. If you received registration papers, you'll need to turn to the back side, and select what type of paperwork you would like to receive, whether it's a simple permanent registration, transfer of ownership, or if you want one of those as well as a 4 or 6 generation pedigree to accompany it. The pedigree is what will help you figure out the bloodlines.

Again, if you didn't receive any such paperwork with your pup at the time of sale/receipt, then unfortunately you're just SOL.


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## Goemon

charlie taylor said:


> My name is Charlie and I would like to know how would I go about finding the bloodlines of my pitbull puppys and getting the papers on them.


If you get a dog without a pedigree it means the owners of the parents never had them and do not know.

In the old days a Pit Dog proved itself through mortal combat, papers be damned...those days are gone...all unknowns today are mutts.

Buy here is a safe bet: if it is a "blue dog" you can know you do not have a Pit Dog, aka American (pit) Bull Terrier.

Only reason you need papers is to show a dog, or breed.

If you get one without papers, chances are you never intended either.

So be happy with the dog as is, or cull it from the dog society and go buy a real dog with the "papers" you desire.
You won't get them from a real registry.

And Bloodline? LOL, if you don't know the bloodline when you get it, it's because it is not a family dog, but a back yard bred dog.


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## surfer

g-man,
stearn, but true.........


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## NH_TwxN

how do i find the bloodline for my dog if i can't find the father or the mother registries


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## NH_TwxN

can i start a bloodline off back yard dog


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## BCdogs

NH_TwxN said:


> how do i find the bloodline for my dog if i can't find the father or the mother registries


You can't.



NH_TwxN said:


> can i start a bloodline off back yard dog


Sure, in theory, but why would you?


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## NH_TwxN

to make my own breed to make the best dog i can


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## BCdogs

NH_TwxN said:


> to make my own breed to make the best dog i can


And what exactly would be the purpose of this breed?


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