# Questions



## Courtney2018 (May 7, 2018)

The man I got my female from told me that my Female and her bloodlines are APBT & shes registered with ADBA. Her bloodlines are TNT Watchdog Razors Edge on top TNT Woods Wilders on bottom. I asked, ain't some of those bully bloodlines and he said No that ours are older bloodlines way back before Gail and her partner split up and that my girls ped goes back to when ADBA first started. He said the Woods Wilders is OFRN. I would really Love to be more educated on each of these lines. Thank you!


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

The wilder and woods is apbt the razors edge tnt and watchdog isn't. They crossed bullies with apbt it sounds like.


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

Dave Wilson(founder if r/e) started with am staffs(regardless of what anyone says) and then mixed all sorts of breeds in to get American bullies and his line of dogs. 

I've seen dogs that were half R/E half really good game dogs. I have no idea why they would want to destroy the game dogs like that but they did. Sounds like you have a similar cross.


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## Courtney2018 (May 7, 2018)

I told him that I was always told those were bully lines and he says Not the older bloodlines of old watchdog and old R/E. So I was just tryna figure out what is the truth of her bloodlines. I know the woods wilders is apbt but the others i also read some stuff said they were amstaff/apbt cross and that the way they got the bully was by throwing other bull breeds with the amstaff/apbt to get the am bully


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

I don't know how to tell you those lines aren't apbt anymore than I did.... He wasn't honest with you. You bought an amstaff bully ofrn mix. A mutt.


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

If you believe the person who bred the American bully and came up with the 6 or however many "breed standards" there are recipes the American bully is an staff x with apbt. 

Imo there is no such breed as the American bully. They're nothing more than expensive mutts and mixed breeds. 
Since watch dog and tnt were amstaff line with the occasional apbt(and god and those liars only know what else)thrown in they at best would be American bullies according the the originators own recipe. 

All the lines you mentioned besides the ofrn is all mixed breed lines. Always have been.


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## Courtney2018 (May 7, 2018)

I just wanted to know the truth. I love her regardless but it is nice to know what you have.I never bought her cause she was given to me. If I want a real APBT, then what bloodlines do you suggest and what breeder? I really want real apbts. I don't have anything against bullies but I like my apbt. I know many bully breeders and some take it way to far of breeding all these other breeds into their dogs and the poor dogs look like they are dying.


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

I don't recommend anyone get an apbt. 99% of people can't handle them properly. If you're hell bent on one get ahold of Tom Garner. Anything he's got on the ground would be decent. They're not cheap though.


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## Courtney2018 (May 7, 2018)

My family's owned true OFRN & Colby lines Apbts before. I just wanted to make sure I was right bout them being bully lines of him tryna tell me they aren't. And okay thanks and I know apbt aren't cheap.


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

Dave Wilson started with APBT and AmStaff, what happened to them after that is where the other breeds were brought in. 
They are a breed of their own. they are made for showing and family pets. 
The guy can say way back all he wants. But if they were far enough back to be the original Razors Edge dog, then he wouldn't even be mentioning it as a line in the dog. 
Do you have the ped?


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

I disagree. Breeds have a set standard. Not 7 to fit whatever monster you bred for fun. Their temperaments are all over the place as with the looks. Theres no uniformity except they're all terribly bred. 

Registries registering them means little as a registry is just a business and only cares about getting money. The adba would register a shoe if you sent in their fee and a fake ped. 


And as far as the abkc that's the biggest joke ever. The people who bred the mutts make a registry to prove they're legit? Sounds more like a way to get another $30 off an overpriced mutt and make everyone feel "real". 

If I breed a lab with a collie can I claim it's its own breed, make up a registry with 10 breed standards to cover whatver is born and start to sell and resister them as pure bred dogs? If the answer is no then the American bully community can't either. 


Dave also crossed in other dogs and registered dogs he knew were not bred as said. He tries to pass the buck but he did it also. Also Dave's "apbt" were ukc reg am staffs. 


Besides those sidenotes ecko is right. Ppl can say anything but the facts remain


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Ohh what an interesting debate. I can say that both BD and Mac make great points about the status of the AmBully. And clearly they answer the original questions posed. 

I have to think about it more but my personal initial thoughts are that the AmBull Standard is a breed in and of itself with a standard in both confirmation and temperament. The rest of the “sizes” are mutts that are all over the place and poorly bred with lots of health issues and temperaments. I do think that breeds can have more than one standard and many do but I think BD makes good points about the AmBully currently. 

I also agree that the ABKC is suspect as far as registries go. I’m not ready to say yet that all the major registries are suspect but based on experiences and other conversations, I am quite suspicious of the ABKC as being legit. 

Not intending to hijack the conversation but it is an interesting topic to debate!


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

I have no problem saying ALL registries are a crock... adba, Ukc, akc, abkc, ckc and all the others. If they weren't explain how these mutts were ever registered, promoted, and pimped to the general public with papers for generation after generation. The registries are nothing more than a place to send money and get a piece of paper with whatever fantasy you sent in back. 

Also having one standard being a breed but the other standards are junk bred mutts is faulty logic. They all come from the same place, same ppl, same breeders, same lines and cost the same to register. Their papers all look the same. They will award ribbons for every standard at a show so the breeders and registeries believe theyre equal in the breed. Makes them all the same.


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

The standard is roughly the same for all, difference only being in height, and XL having a heavier bone structure. 
It all falls back on responsible breeding. There aren't OGs regulating and preventing BYBs from getting these dogs and making a mess out of them. It's not the registries fault. They actually try to regulate them by having a conformation standard to show by. They did boot out the "exotics". Yeah they want money, all businesses do and in the end that's what KCs are. There are plenty of breeds with standard and toy versions. So different sizes is a poor argument. Yes there are garbage dogs out there, but that's pretty much the same for every breed. 
Every breed had to start somewhere. The American Bully took almost a decade to be a registered breed.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Yeah I know your stance in the registries and how you feel about them as nothing more than money makers. And I know there are probably more hung papers than legit ones out there but there needs to be some type of standard “governing body” per se for those interested in the conformation/dog sport side of things. Just because that’s not your thing doesn’t make it wrong or illegitimate for others. 

And I disagree that it’s faulty logic, though I do see where you’re coming from. The standard size bully and what the watchdog and RE original dogs were provide the “foundation” if you will, of the crosses that were outcrossed from there to get those unhealthy, poorly bred dogs. Even the original APBT were crosses - of course that those crosses were is matter of serious debate but crosses nonetheless. 


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

We're all just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one....


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

LOL I never saw you as one to bow out of a good debate with the agree to disagree line...


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## Bulldoggin' (Jan 24, 2018)

"A dog that bangs the chain endlessly and get nowhere is a dumb dog"


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Ouch! Touché 


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