# Hope needs Help



## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

*Pictures Of Hopes Skin*

Hi to you all!
A moth ago I had rescued an 8mth old who had a very bad case of demodex mange. After a mth of having her I thought she was getting better she started getting some hair back. Now she is starting to scratch herself untill she bleeds. I had read older post with this issue. After reading the post I am left really confussed:hammer: They talk about different creams to apply,adding stuff to her diet and not feeding her foods with certain ingrediants in it. Also that they have taken their dogs back to the vet for multiple skin scrappings my vet mentioned nothing about coming back for any scrappings he did just the one.I have read the dog food grading post and once again am confused about how to add and subtract everything I have been feeding her Earthborn Holistic Puppy Vantage. Is anyone familiar with this food and if so how does it rate? It is Manufactured by Midwestern Pet Food Center. They also make Pro-Pac foods and it is sold at Pet Food Center.
Any help on what I can do to help her out will be appreciated.
Thank You
Angie


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

coalchunk said:


> Hi to you all!
> A moth ago I had rescued an 8mth old who had a very bad case of demodex mange. After a mth of having her I thought she was getting better she started getting some hair back. Now she is starting to scratch herself untill she bleeds. I had read older post with this issue. After reading the post I am left really confussed:hammer: They talk about different creams to apply,adding stuff to her diet and not feeding her foods with certain ingrediants in it. Also that they have taken their dogs back to the vet for multiple skin scrappings my vet mentioned nothing about coming back for any scrappings he did just the one.I have read the dog food grading post and once again am confused about how to add and subtract everything I have been feeding her Earthborn Holistic Puppy Vantage. Is anyone familiar with this food and if so how does it rate? It is Manufactured by Midwestern Pet Food Center. They also make Pro-Pac foods and it is sold at Pet Food Center.
> Any help on what I can do to help her out will be appreciated.
> Thank You
> Angie


First your food

*Earthborn Holistic Puppy Vantage Ingredients* ((what is in bold is not good))

INGREDIENTS: Chicken Meal, Whitefish Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, *Rye Flour*, Potatoes, Sweet Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E), Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E), Tomato Pomace, Ground Flaxseed, Apples, Blueberries, Carrots, Peas, Spinach, Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Beta-Carotene, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Oxide, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, L-Carnitine, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Ferrous Sulfate, Biotin, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Dried

Rye flour is flour milled from grains of rye grass. Closely related to wheat flour - dogs can be also allergic to this 
_________________________________________________________________

About your Demodex .. Well I have a way of healing this problem...

*Prolate = topical insecticide for livestock *

You can purchase at Prolate®/Lintox®-HD from Lambert Vet Supply

It is 1 ounce of Prolate to 1 gallon of water. 
Put into a spray bottle to spray on body
Use a sponge to put around eyes, nose, mouth and private area.

3 x aday for 2 weeks
2 x aday for 1 week
1 x aday for 1 week

You then simply spray down your dogs being careful not to get it in the eyes or mouth of you or your dog. You can also use the spray as a kennel spray to eliminate all mites located in the kennels, dog runs, dog houses, or other sleeping areas. Not to mention also you house if the dog is in the house

The Prolate dip/spray works wonders on sarcoptic mites, ear mites, lice, and even ticks

I use it for tick season when my dogs go out into the woods for hiking.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Deb I have used that for sarcoptic mange but does it work on demodex?

do you have pictures of your dog? that would really help. Depending on where the hair loss is it could tell you if it is food related or demodex still.


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

performanceknls said:


> Deb I have used that for sarcoptic mange but does it work on demodex?
> 
> do you have pictures of your dog? that would really help. Depending on where the hair loss is it could tell you if it is food related or demodex still.


Yes it works for Demodex as well... I have a friend with a Presa that has Demodex and I had him put his dog on it and it clearing up. 
He was diagnosed with it.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Post up a pic so we can see whats going on.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Well it clears up pretty fast if you have your vet:
Spay her if not already
Ivormectin orally
and there is the dip you do once a week


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

gamer said:


> Well it clears up pretty fast if you have your vet:
> Spay her if not already
> Ivormectin orally
> and there is the dip you do once a week


Yes Ivermetin works orally but you need to know the right dosage if not you can cause all kind of problems with your dog .. One is causing the pupil to enlarge and allowing to much light in that will blind your dog.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

geisthexe said:


> Yes Ivermetin works orally but you need to know the right dosage if not you can cause all kind of problems with your dog .. One is causing the pupil to enlarge and allowing to much light in that will blind your dog.


Yeah that is why he needs to have the vet take care of it


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

gamer said:


> Yeah that is why he needs to have the vet take care of it


Gamer the reason I stated something back to your post was b/c you thru out a medication .. most folks and not saying this person would have done it but alot of folks would have went got the medication and tried to administer by themselves. So this is why I point out things, its not to come at you it to put a serious problem out there. 
When I put out medication I put the dosage or nothing at all.

Ok ???


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

geisthexe said:


> Gamer the reason I stated something back to your post was b/c you thru out a medication .. most folks and not saying this person would have done it but alot of folks would have went got the medication and tried to administer by themselves. So this is why I point out things, its not to come at you it to put a serious problem out there.
> When I put out medication I put the dosage or nothing at all.
> 
> Ok ???


gotcha i see your point


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## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

*heres the pics of hope right now*


















the first one is of her neck were she has been scratching and the secound one is her back right leg but its like that on both back ones just worst on the right and shes looking 100% better then when we first got her.i just want to turn this  into this:woof:


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## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

*Pictures of Hopes skin*

My son has posted two pictures of Hopes skin. I did not know he posted them so big. If you need more pictures to see her full bosy let me know. I appreciate all the help That I am getting from this forum.
She was on the Ivermectin and a few more meds that the vet gave her. The vet never told me to bring her back and I am thinking it may be they did not think she was going to live. They told me she was in really bad shape!
I have also orderd some Nu-Stock to help with her hair regrowth should be here in about 4 days.
thanks
Angie


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Oh man!
I did have a dog who battled Mange that bad for 6 months and never got better. We finally had to put her down, her immune system was so trashed she could not over come the mange or infections.

But you have only been working on it for a month so you still have plenty of time.
How often did the vet have you use the ivermectine? Nu stock will help but because it is all over her body you need several things to get this under control. You can;t dip her in Nu stock, it is messy and stinky. It is best used on spot treat not the whole body.

So a few questions
What are you treating her with now?
How much and how often did you give the ivermectine?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

You can treat mange from home and here are a few ways to do it. How much does she weigh?

You need to get some ivermectin from a feed store it will look like this or it could be another brand. It will range in price from 23-50 dollars depending on where you get it from. Because of the laws in the us the vets can only tell you to use it orally once a week. Studies have been done and in other countries it is given daily for 2-3 weeks. I have had success with advice from my vet off the books with using it every other day for 3 weeks. The dosage is 1/10 cc per 10lbs of body weight, if you can not calculate it by yourself then post her weight and I or someone else can do it for you. everything you need including syringes will be sold at the feed store or you can order them at lambert. It tastes horrible so I mix it with a little wet food and give it orally. It burns if you do it subQ so it is easiest to give it orally.

Ivermectin Injectable, 50 ml - Wormers - Lambert Vet Supply

Because your dog is so bad you need to also dip your dog
You should dip your dog in prolate 
Prolate, 1 qt - Insecticides - Lambert Vet Supply
(posted by Deb)
Prolate = topical insecticide for livestock

You can purchase at Prolate®/Lintox®-HD from Lambert Vet Supply

It is 1 ounce of Prolate to 1 gallon of water. 
Put into a spray bottle to spray on body
Use a sponge to put around eyes, nose, mouth and private area.

3 x a day for 2 weeks
2 x aday for 1 week
1 x aday for 1 week

You then simply spray down your dogs being careful not to get it in the eyes or mouth of you or your dog. You can also use the spray as a kennel spray to eliminate all mites located in the kennels, dog runs, dog houses, or other sleeping areas. Not to mention also you house if the dog is in the house

The Prolate dip/spray works wonders on sarcoptic mites, ear mites, lice, and even ticks

Then your dog should be on antibiotics because of the skin infection that is going on from scratching. You should put her on Cephalexin you can get it without a prescription it is called fish flex. It is the exact same medication just bottled for fish use, it really is a scam who they do that!
You will give her 1 pill 2x a day and I would do it for 14 days because she is so bad. How much does she weigh again? I need to make sure the dosage is right but get the 250 mg pills they are cheaper and good to keep on hand anyway.
Fish Flex, 250 mg Cephalexin x 100 Capsules, Non-prescription - Non Prescription - Lambert Vet Supply

Next for her itching you can help her by giving her Benadryl. You will give her 1-2mg per 1 pound of body weight. The pills you buy at the store are normally 25mg pills so if she weighs 40 lbs you can give her 50mg which is two pills. You can give this 2 times a day and the reason it helps is because the body releases histamines into the system when they scratch the skin like that. ( It is more technical than that but you get the point) Benadryl helps with the itching for Mange while they are going threw the healing process.

Mange is an immune system issues so you need to build the immune system back up so do not give her anything like steroids or vaccines while she is recovering. Those will weaken her immune system and make recover longer.

I have cured many dogs with mange and some as bad as your girl, it just takes time and you have to be dedicated to the treatment. In about 2 weeks you should see some improvement and in 4 week the improvement will be really noticeable but it takes time and you can't skip a treatment. good luck and let us know if you need more help.
ps you can buy all this at one place and save your self hundred of dollars vs letting the vet treat but if at anytime you think the vet needs to see your dog then take them. Follow the dosages carefully and you should be fine.


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## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

Here is a list of meds that the vet gave Hope on 01-09-2010
Ivermectin D. (spelled Ivomec on the bottle) .3cc orally 1xdaily
Cephalexin 250mg 1capsule 3xdaily quantity 60
Hydroxyzine 25mg 1capsule 3xdaily quantity 60
Omega 3 Fatty Acid-AllerG-3 An Omega3 Fatty acid supplement for dogs
I looked at the website that yu gave me and there are several different Ivermectin for cattle and horses so I am not sure what to get, also different ways to administer it.
Thanks for all the help 
Hope weighed 33 pnds when she was at the vet in January she has put on some weight but not much she still looks kinda boney Im not sure if I need to be giving her vitamins or what for her muscles its like she was so sick it drained her of all her muscle and good weight that she had.
Thanks again
Angie


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Well they had you on the right path you just need to stick with it! also I would add the dips because they attack the mites and will help getting rid of them. You want 1% injectable cattle Ivermectin, that is what the vet would give you can just buy it cheaper  You will need a syringe to draw it out of the bottle but then you take the needle off and give it orally. It says injectable but you give it orally just like you did before. 

Basically you will be doing the same treatment the vet had you on but you will be adding the dip, like I said this takes time with a case that bad but stick with it. The meds I gave you are the same as the vet just a way of doing it over the counter and not having to spend the extra money on the vet. It gets expensive to treat mange but this way it will save you some money and it is effective. The dosage for the Ivermectin is listed in my post and you can give the antibiotics 3x a day instead of 2x since her skin is so bad. If you need anymore help just post and good luck! Mange is difficult but worth it when you see them all healed!


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## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

I want to thank everyone who has given me help in dealing with Hopes issues.
I have all of her medecine on order and it should be here in about a week. I just have another ?? She seems so skinny and boney I was wanting to know if there is a vitamin or food suppliment I can give her. 
thanks again for all the great help and information I have gotten.:clap:
Thank You
Angie


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Is she on a good puppy food? That should help and you might want to up her food in take. There are many good vitamin supplements you can give I like pet-cal gel or pet tabs. Increasing the food might help enough and IMO go to the health food store and talk to them about natural herbal immune system boosters. That would be your best bet, also make sure what they recommend are ok for dogs. Most thing are fine for dogs but you always want to call your vet and double check.


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## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

I feed her Earthborn The member geisthexe was nice to list all the ingredients and she listed the bad that is in food one item, only because some dogs may be allergic to it. Other than that I dont knoww anything about the food. My dod works at the plant that makes the food and he brings it to me. I am wanting to switch to a different brand and would like some input on what I should switch her to. 
Thanks for all the help


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## pitbulljojo (Apr 2, 2009)

I'm glad I don't live by your guys. We buy Ivemectin from a feed store in Chicago for our 2 girls with mange.A tube of paste { about 5 doses} costs $10 !!!! We feed once every 3 months and an extra dose when they go into heat. We manage to keep it under control fairly well. It flares up with heat cycles , large amounts of stress and pregnancy. After our bitch gave welped 3 years ago she looked tragic. All her hair fell out , her mouth cracked and bled. It took over a year to get her back


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

pitbulljojo said:


> I'm glad I don't live by your guys. We buy Ivemectin from a feed store in Chicago for our 2 girls with mange.A tube of paste { about 5 doses} costs $10 !!!! We feed once every 3 months and an extra dose when they go into heat. We manage to keep it under control fairly well. It flares up with heat cycles , large amounts of stress and pregnancy. After our bitch gave welped 3 years ago she looked tragic. All her hair fell out , her mouth cracked and bled. It took over a year to get her back


The paste is not the same as the injectable and paste works ok but not as good as injectable for mange.

So your breeding dogs with known Mange that flares up? Mange can be genetic or it can be brought on by stress in pups. In your case I would say it is genetic since it flares up when they are in season or Pregnant. Normal dogs who had it as a pup and it was stress induced never have to worry about it again once it goes away. But if it keeps coming back I would say that is genetic and if your breeding dogs with with problem you need to take a hard look at your breeding program. My suggestion is to spay your stock and start over. Why would you breed a bitch to the point all her hair fell out? WTF? Mange is not something you should have to control for the life of breeding stock.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

To boost her immune system ... Large dog yeast kitt.
Dog Health | Nzymes.com
Milk Thistle (Tincture Non Alcohol 1 dopper full 2x a day)
And a grain free food quality food.


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## GOODGIRL75 (May 14, 2009)

poor bby we are dealing with mange here too its not as bad as your dog but she is scratching and making scabs going to the vet tomorrow  to see what they recomend


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## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

Hi goodgirl
We got hope as a rescue and she looks so much better now than she did 2 mths ago. I have gotten a lot of great help from the members on this forum. Hopes is getting better each day she is getting her hair back and is looking very good.
I hope your little girl gets better


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## Bryan Morris (Oct 8, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> The paste is not the same as the injectable and paste works ok but not as good as injectable for mange.
> 
> So your breeding dogs with known Mange that flares up? Mange can be genetic or it can be brought on by stress in pups. In your case I would say it is genetic since it flares up when they are in season or Pregnant. Normal dogs who had it as a pup and it was stress induced never have to worry about it again once it goes away. But if it keeps coming back I would say that is genetic and if your breeding dogs with with problem you need to take a hard look at your breeding program. My suggestion is to spay your stock and start over. Why would you breed a bitch to the point all her hair fell out? WTF? Mange is not something you should have to control for the life of breeding stock.


When you talk about stress induced mange what are you referring too? Would the dog need more exercise or is it living a compromised life?

Can you please expound on this a little?

Bryan Morris


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Bryan Morris said:


> When you talk about stress induced mange what are you referring too? Would the dog need more exercise or is it living a compromised life?
> 
> Can you please expound on this a little?
> 
> Bryan Morris


I believe she is saying that the mange can worsen with the stress of pregnancy. Mange can become a very serious condition as you can see from above.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Stress to the system like bad living conditions, not eating right, sickly, giving all the vaccines at once stress the body and you see mange pop up a lot after that. There are many things that can cause mange to appear. It is a comprised immune system that allows mange to take over.

Coalchunk I am so happy to hear she is getting better! It is a long road with a dog that bad but you have done a great job sticking to the treatment. We need before and after pictures


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## Bryan Morris (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks for the response to my question. I now have an idea what is the cause. He was anemic and that has probably dragged his defences down as he lives in a very good environment, eats right and exercise regularly.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

We use tac dip and or ivomec at the clinic to treat demo.
Spaying the dog after you get the skin issue under control would be a wise decision as well.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Hmm those pictures are so sad. I would be tempted to have her put down. Please do not drag this out for your own feelings, please keep in mind quality of life for the pet. She has to be miserable. I hope she gets better.


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## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

Hi to you all it has been some time since I have posted on here... My brother who is 38 was diognosed with a very rare blood disorder called LCH/Histiocytocis X we have been trying to deal with this and he has been going through chemo which is the only way they know how to deal with this disorder, wich has no cure. My mind has been elswhere since the diagnosis.
On a happier note I am glad to tell you all that Hope is a totally different girl today she has all her hair. She is such a great girl. She is also finally healthy enough to be spayed wich will be done on Friday the 12 of November. We have an organization at out humain society here in vanderburgh county that was just started in August of this yr, called pitbul stop and they will spay or neuter 250 pitbulls for free. So Hope will be spayed and my brothers male pittie. Boomerang will be neutered as well. His surgery is schedueld for December 16. I am so gratefull for this organization to pay for the altering of our family pets.
I will be adding new pictures of Hope you all will be so amazed on how well she looks. Everyone that sees her that had seen her when we brought her home are just shocked that she is the same dog that was not even suppossed to live through the nite we brought her home.
Thank you all for all the help on her recovery!!
look for pictures coming soon!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your brother, I say a prayer for you guys.

YAY for Hope! I am so happy to hear she is doing better! Poor girl had it rough for a while and yes we need pictures!!


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## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

Here is a quick snapshot of Hope! Thanks to all the help we got with getting her through her mange!! I will be posting more pictures of her so you can see her sides where she had no hair.







She has her tangue sticking out..she is such a silly little girl!!:woof:


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## coalchunk (Jan 24, 2010)

I am Hoping that everyone that helped me out on getting Hope through her bad case of the mange has seen her little picture and can see that she is all better now!!:woof: Like I said you all are great and I thank you.
I am going to be taking more pictures now that I know how to post them on here!! Be looking for pictures
Thanks
Angie


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

YAY always great to see updates!! She is a cutie patootie!


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Great news!I'll be keeping an eye out for these pics


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