# Need advice on runny stool



## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

I have a 7 month old rednose that eats Orijen Puppy food EXCLUSIVELY. He has NEVER had table food, and just occasionally eats one or two "SnawSomes!" by Snausages. I'll give him one or two a day every few days or so. I'm aware of the tainted Chinese dog food products so I looked on the label and nowhere does it say made in China. Not sure if that is definitive or not though.

Anyways, some days, his stool is hard, normal stool. Other days, like today, it is a runny mess. He never goes in the house, and he seems normal, so I don't think he's sick but I want to get to the bottom of this. Like I said, he ONLY eats Orijen Puppy food, and NEVER table food. We also give him filtered water from the tap, if that matters. 

Would like your advice/thoughts on this matter. Appreciate any and all replies.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Has he been showing any other signs of sickness? Is it possible he is getting into anything? Does he still drink and eat like normal? Is there any blood? 

There are a lot of things that can cause the runs. How often is this? Weekly, Monthly? Does it last days?


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

American_Pit13 said:


> Has he been showing any other signs of sickness? Is it possible he is getting into anything? Does he still drink and eat like normal? Is there any blood?
> 
> There are a lot of things that can cause the runs. How often is this? Weekly, Monthly? Does it last days?


Thanks for your response.

He appears completely healthy, very playful every day (whenever he's not sleeping). In my opinion, there is no possible way he is getting into anything as he is kennel trained and in the kennel whenever we are not home. We let him outside briefly to play fetch, go to the bathroom, etc. but never leave him out for an extended period of time. When he's in the house, he is monitored constantly.

He eats normally, except he usually only eats in the evening. Sometimes he'll go the entire day before starting to eat, then he'll eat 3-4 cups between 5pm-11pm. My wife and I have difficult schedules so we feed him and run him around the block when we can. This dog is pampered and really, we spare no expense with him. He has 2 tough Kong toys that he cannot penetrate yet, and a tough nylabone. Also, no signs of blood in his stool. There's no rhyme or reason to it, somedays it will be normal, other days it is very runny.  Tomorrow, it could be perfectly normal.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

One thing I forgot to mention is, on Friday I gave him some salmon oil (which I used to give everyday for his coat/irritations). Now I give it weekly, on Fridays. Do you suppose that could be doing it? It's holistic, and engineered for pets and has really done wonders for his coat.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Could be an overgrowth of bacteria in the gut or something like Giardia which he can get from the yard. I would treat him with metronidazole for a week and see if that clears it up. It is an antibiotic for the gut and will wipe out any bad bacteria or Giardia in a few days. How much does your dog weight? That will determine how much you give, you can buy it off Ebay for pretty cheap. cheaper than a vet visit and it will help clear up the runs. It is packaged as Fishzole for fish but it is the same pills for dogs just packaged for fish. Kinda sneaky in a way, if they package it for fish you do not need a prescription.

It comes in 500mg or 250mg. If your dog is over 20lbs get the 500 mg pills. If you tell me the weight I can get you a dosage.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> Could be an overgrowth of bacteria in the gut or something like Giardia which he can get from the yard. I would treat him with metronidazole for a week and see if that clears it up. It is an antibiotic for the gut and will wipe out any bad bacteria or Giardia in a few days. How much does your dog weight? That will determine how much you give, you can buy it off Ebay for pretty cheap. cheaper than a vet visit and it will help clear up the runs. It is packaged as Fishzole for fish but it is the same pills for dogs just packaged for fish. Kinda sneaky in a way, if they package it for fish you do not need a prescription.
> 
> It comes in 500mg or 250mg. If your dog is over 20lbs get the 500 mg pills. If you tell me the weight I can get you a dosage.


Thanks for this reply--he weighs between 40-45 lbs. Do you recommend a certain vendor? What if that's not the issue, would it hurt him? I'm open to this suggestion.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Not it's not going to hurt him but if he was my dog and acting normal but having poop issues this is where I would start. I would get the 500mg fishzole and treat for 7 days, the first dose the first day give two 500mg pills then the next day one pill twice a day for a week. Make sure you give it with food or it will upset their stomach. I would also deworm your dog, when was the last time he was wormed? Even if the poop stays solid treat for 7 days. After the 7 days are up you might want to give the dog a scoop of yogurt to help put back the good bacteria in the gut. This is where I would start and go from there. Obviously your pup is not sick if everything else is ok like I said it's probably a bacterial overgrowth and easy to correct.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> Not it's not going to hurt him but if he was my dog and acting normal but having poop issues this is where I would start. I would get the 500mg fishzole and treat for 7 days, the first dose the first day give two 500mg pills then the next day one pill twice a day for a week. Make sure you give it with food or it will upset their stomach. I would also deworm your dog, when was the last time he was wormed? Even if the poop stays solid treat for 7 days. After the 7 days are up you might want to give the dog a scoop of yogurt to help put back the good bacteria in the gut. This is where I would start and go from there. Obviously your pup is not sick if everything else is ok like I said it's probably a bacterial overgrowth and easy to correct.


Thank you very much for this, he was dewormed when we first got him about 4 months ago. All is normal except his stool, which is EXTREMELY smelly as well as his farts, lol. I just thought it was the Orijen? I will order some tonight and proceed exactly as you have stated. If you have any other information I would appreciate it. Thanks a million.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Smelly poop I bet it's Giardia! It can get really smelly and sometimes slimy. If this does not clear it up in a week post again and then we have to see if it's the food. But my guess with smelly poop is the fishzole will clear it up! good luck let us know how he does.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> Smelly poop I bet it's Giardia! It can get really smelly and sometimes slimy. If this does not clear it up in a week post again and then we have to see if it's the food. But my guess with smelly poop is the fishzole will clear it up! good luck let us know how he does.


Again, thank you so very much. Sometimes his farts run my wife out of the room. I have some holistic probiotic powder to supp with his food and will do so when he gets better after treatment. I will for sure follow up with the outcome, just ordered some off of ebay.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> Not it's not going to hurt him but if he was my dog and acting normal but having poop issues this is where I would start. I would get the 500mg fishzole and treat for 7 days, the first dose the first day give two 500mg pills then the next day one pill twice a day for a week. Make sure you give it with food or it will upset their stomach. I would also deworm your dog, when was the last time he was wormed? Even if the poop stays solid treat for 7 days. After the 7 days are up you might want to give the dog a scoop of yogurt to help put back the good bacteria in the gut. This is where I would start and go from there. Obviously your pup is not sick if everything else is ok like I said it's probably a bacterial overgrowth and easy to correct.


CORRECTION: We weighed him today and he is 57 lbs (which I can't believe!!) Is this still the dosage I should use? Also, the medicine shipped today.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

mark896 said:


> Again, thank you so very much. Sometimes his farts run my wife out of the room. I have some holistic probiotic powder to supp with his food and will do so when he gets better after treatment. I will for sure follow up with the outcome, just ordered some off of ebay.


dosage should be the same without an issue. and don't do the probiotics till the treatments over but yeah that sounds perfect!


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

My boy had a bad belly or a long time. Experimenting with his food I changed the protein source and removed grains. Yogurt is a natural probiotic as well to try and get the good bacteria back in their belly's as well. Along with fish oil my boy gets a tablespoon of pumpkin and a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar with the mother in his kibbles. ACV has lots of benefits. The pumpkin helps keep him regular not to soft or hard.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

*UPDATE*

It is day 4 on the antibiotics and I'm not sure if progress has been made or not. The gas is still really bad, but I went out and inspected his stool this morning and it's back to a dark brown color (which I think is good) and it's not as runny. Starting on Wednesday, I gave him 2 500mg pills, then on Thursday, Friday, and today, 1 500mg pill in the morning and one in the evening. I will continue this until Wednesday, as suggested.



ames said:


> My boy had a bad belly or a long time. Experimenting with his food I changed the protein source and removed grains. Yogurt is a natural probiotic as well to try and get the good bacteria back in their belly's as well. Along with fish oil my boy gets a tablespoon of pumpkin and a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar with the mother in his kibbles. ACV has lots of benefits. The pumpkin helps keep him regular not to soft or hard.


I just saw where you replied to this Ames, sorry for the late reply. He eats Orijen Puppy (grain-free) which I've been told is the best. We have probiotics from holisticpet.com and were using it for a month to try to get rid of the weak stomach. I will use it after we clear this up. I give him salmon oil once every Friday (2 squirts, again from holisticpet.com). Do you mean canned pumpkin? I just want his stool to harden up.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Orijen ingredients are exclusive to Canada, not out sourced and not of lower quality. Runny poop associated with the food (if what PK doesn't work) can also be a result of over feeding and pooping before completely digested OR taking out walk/exercise too soon which can cause some dogs to have inconsistent poop particularly if they get hot before they poop.. AKA upset stomach.

How much do you feed, how much time do you wait until you take him out? How much water do you give and do you give water right after feeding or waiting a bit? With water on a full grown dog i wait at least 30 minutes in between feeding and water. Giving water the same time or right after a meal can also cause digestive issues as for some dogs, giving one right after the other in their tracks at the same time the feed doesn't have time to be properly broken down before it exits.. Which results in what you see.

Also, some dogs are naturally gassy. It may be a symptom or it may just be normal, i've fed hounds that could clear a room within seconds.. Others, not a stint.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

KMdogs said:


> Orijen ingredients are exclusive to Canada, not out sourced and not of lower quality. Runny poop associated with the food (if what PK doesn't work) can also be a result of over feeding and pooping before completely digested OR taking out walk/exercise too soon which can cause some dogs to have inconsistent poop particularly if they get hot before they poop.. AKA upset stomach.
> 
> How much do you feed, how much time do you wait until you take him out? How much water do you give and do you give water right after feeding or waiting a bit? With water on a full grown dog i wait at least 30 minutes in between feeding and water. Giving water the same time or right after a meal can also cause digestive issues as for some dogs, giving one right after the other in their tracks at the same time the feed doesn't have time to be properly broken down before it exits.. Which results in what you see.
> 
> Also, some dogs are naturally gassy. It may be a symptom or it may just be normal, i've fed hounds that could clear a room within seconds.. Others, not a stint.


Thanks for your reply. I agree on the gassy part, and that doesn't really bother me, but it does stink lol. My wife and I are on difficult schedules so he basically always has food in his bowl. He is 7 months old, 57 pounds, and eats anywhere from 3 to 5 cups per day. The runny stool SEEMS only to be in the morning, when we first let him out. He usually never eats during the day, and will start eating around 5pm and continues until 11pm. We exercise him 3-5 times per week in the evening when we come home from work and he never has runny stool afterwards. We leave fresh water out for him 24-7, we live in Alabama and it's very hot in the summer. He only goes outside for brief periods to play and use the bathroom, then he's always inside. I haven't considered the overeating issue as he just saw the vet to get his ear crop fixed and they vet says he looks wonderful, perfect weight.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

just my 2 cents since i dont have the experience like Performance and KM do... but that seems like a lot of food. my boy is close to 20 months and 73lbs and he gets 2 cups of Acana a day. Orijen is such a good food, and u dont need to feed as much as u would if he was on crappy purina or something like that.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Yes 5 cups is ungodly amount of feed for your pup, a waste of money really and id pit my money on that being at least part of the problem. I feed my 94 pound bandog 4.5 cups of orijen a day and that is with as much labor he endures on a day to day basis. No way should your dog need that much


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

KMdogs said:


> Yes 5 cups is ungodly amount of feed for your pup, a waste of money really and id pit my money on that being at least part of the problem. I feed my 94 pound bandog 4.5 cups of orijen a day and that is with as much labor he endures on a day to day basis. No way should your dog need that much


The label says 3 1/4 - 4 1/4 cups per day for a dog of his age, weight. He very rarely eats 5 cups, usually between 3 and 4.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Could also be too rich for him, I've had dogs on really great food and it was too rich and I had stool problems. With the metronidazole it should have got better within a few days. Finish the rest but if that does not help I would try switching foods. The best food on the market or not if the dog can't handle it then it's time to find something that will agree with them. Before you switch foods I would go to the vet and get a stool sample done and make sure you don't have a parasite.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> Could also be too rich for him, I've had dogs on really great food and it was too rich and I had stool problems. With the metronidazole it should have got better within a few days. Finish the rest but if that does not help I would try switching foods. The best food on the market or not if the dog can't handle it then it's time to find something that will agree with them. Before you switch foods I would go to the vet and get a stool sample done and make sure you don't have a parasite.


It is getting better, it's darker now and harder, so I will continue the treatment. If it doesnt work, I'll head to the vet. No problems. He's happy, I just want everything to be perfect for him.. And good call on the food, what else could I offer him that's on par with Orijen?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I had the same problem with my boston terrier and I tried every food out there!! he was always fed a crappy diet before I got him so I had to try and reset his system. With time I found a food that worked and now he eats the grain free kirkland brand from costco. Grain free but not too rich and top of the line. He just couldn't tolerate the richer foods. 
getting a stool sample would be the next step if it was my dog. Your dog does not have to show any signs of illness to have worms. 

After that is clear then I would switch to a mid grade food. Maybe something like blue buffalo or if you have a costco try the grain free. Also you might be feeding too much and the dog can't process it all. 57lbs I could see feeding like 3 cups but it depends on how the dog looks. Do you have pictures? Of course they want you to feed a lot of food, they are in the business of selling dog food after all! lol


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

Acana has less protien %s and is made by Champion just like Orijen and the label on the back has 2 columns, one for active and one for less active. The less active for a dog 73lbs like my Odin says i believe 2 1/4 cups a day. i settle on 2 cuz he gets treats like its nobodies business. but again just my 2 cents.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> I had the same problem with my boston terrier and I tried every food out there!! he was always fed a crappy diet before I got him so I had to try and reset his system. With time I found a food that worked and now he eats the grain free kirkland brand from costco. Grain free but not too rich and top of the line. He just couldn't tolerate the richer foods.
> getting a stool sample would be the next step if it was my dog. Your dog does not have to show any signs of illness to have worms.
> 
> After that is clear then I would switch to a mid grade food. Maybe something like blue buffalo or if you have a costco try the grain free. Also you might be feeding too much and the dog can't process it all. 57lbs I could see feeding like 3 cups but it depends on how the dog looks. Do you have pictures? Of course they want you to feed a lot of food, they are in the business of selling dog food after all! lol


Very true. The dog looks great, not overweight. Every time we take him somewhere people go crazy over him and compliment his looks. I wish I had some good pics. I'm going to finish the antibiotic treatment, and if it continues, get a fecal sample at the vet. If it's clean, I'll try a less rich dog food, I suppose. It's really strange, only in the mornings and he eats only at night. He hasnt eaten a thing all day--it's like this everyday. He'll start eating here within the hour though..


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

Odin's_BlueDragon said:


> Acana has less protien %s and is made by Champion just like Orijen and the label on the back has 2 columns, one for active and one for less active. The less active for a dog 73lbs like my Odin says i believe 2 1/4 cups a day. i settle on 2 cuz he gets treats like its nobodies business. but again just my 2 cents.


Thanks for this, I was wondering if Acana would be an alternative..


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

mark896 said:


> Thanks for this, I was wondering if Acana would be an alternative..


no problem. i ended up ordering from here Acana Wild Prairie Grain Free Dry Dog Food . that way i could save a few bucks. i think my local store wanted almost 10 bucks more for the same thing. :thumbsup:


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Do you free feed? like leave food down all day? Your dog should eat as soon as you put the food down and be hungry not pick at it. I would back down the food to like 3 cups and see if that helps before switching. Too much food can upset the system and he could not be digesting it all when he eats and that's what is giving him the runs.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> Do you free feed? like leave food down all day? Your dog should eat as soon as you put the food down and be hungry not pick at it. I would back down the food to like 3 cups and see if that helps before switching. Too much food can upset the system and he could not be digesting it all when he eats and that's what is giving him the runs.


Good question--I DO free feed because my wife and I are on such crazy schedules. It breaks my heart to think that he is hungry so I just keep the food down there. He isn't fat, so I figured no issue. My work schedule changes frequently so the poor dog never knows when he's eating but he almost always eats at night (he just ate his first meal 20 minutes ago). Should I let him free feed, but only 3 cups a day?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

If you really can't feed the dog in the morning and then again at night you can get a programmable feeder. Lok walmart has a cheap one that will work perfectly
http://www.walmart.com/ip/5969455?a...1=g&wl2=&wl3=13223641630&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem

I feed my dogs in the late morning and then again at night when I put them to bed at about 11pm.

If you're feeling bad your dog is hungry then that's part of the problem. Dogs should always be hungry to a point. They should eat with enthusiasm not pick at the food. Your feeding way too much and your dog should eat twice a day. Here is an article about feeding properly


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Custom K-9 Performance
(505) 203-9586

Feeding 

It’s important to make sure your meeting the nutritional requirements of your puppy. Puppies that are 6 to 8 weeks should be eating 3-4 times a day. After 8 weeks you can go to 3 times a day. Once a puppy is about 16 weeks old they can go to 2 times a day and continue through adulthood. Puppies should be kept on puppy food till at least 9-12 months of age. The size and breed of dog matters, ask your veterinarian what they recommend.

What food to buy? 

You want a good quality puppy food to provide the best nutrition for your growing puppy. Good quality does not always mean the most expensive. You do get what you pay for so stay away from foods like “Old Roy” or “Gravy Train”. You want to look at the ingredients and make sure to stay away from anything that does not specify the protein source. If it just says bone and meat meal it could be anything from processed euthanized animals (yes some food contain euthanized animals) to bird beaks and feet. Also look for fillers. Corn is used as filler and is not very digestible. Look for something like rice instead. 
We recommend Kirkland dog food from Costco. They have a great puppy food and have adult food in Lamb and Rice or Chicken and Rice. Kirkland is used by many breeders across the country and is our little secret for a great dog food at an affordable price.

Does my puppy need supplements?

The answer is yes and no. If you have a good balanced food there is no need to supplement. On the other hand, we do live in New Mexico and is very dry. If you notice a dry coat you can try adding fish oil to the dogs food. This will help keep the coat from drying out and give it a glossy look. A cheap solution for fish oil is the over the counter fish oil capsules at the pharmacy. They work great and most does love the little surprise in the food. 

How much do I feed my puppy?

You could go by the recommendations on the back of the dog food but most people will find that is too much. When your puppy is under 8 weeks let them eat till they are full. They need all the extra calories to grow. After 8 weeks for a medium size dog (when full grown) you can give ½ - ¾ cup 3 times a day. Look at your puppy and use your best judgment when adjusting the amount you feed. Increase or decrease by a ¼ cup. If they act whiny or starving all them time increase the amount you feed. If they are leaving food in the bowl, decrease the amount.



What about free feeding?

Free feeding is when you leave a bowl of food out all day and the dogs eat when they want. This works for some dogs but can lead to obesity. If you have multiple dogs this can cause fights and food aggression. Dogs should be feed in separate areas preferably in their crates. 

How to get your puppy in a routine for feeding. 

You should always measure your puppy’s food. It’s important to know how much they are eating. A pet food-measuring cup will give you an accurate idea of what you are giving your puppy. Don’t mistake puppy fat for obesity. It is very easy to overfeed your puppy and make them obese. Usually this can happen after 4 months of age. Their metabolism starts to change and it may be necessary to adjust the amount you feeding. When puppies are obese it can cause severe health risks including hip dysplasia from the extra weight. 
Start by offering food in the morning. Puppies are growing and will be hungry. Put the food on the floor/crate and leave it for 10 minutes. If they do not eat pick up the food and wait till the next scheduled time. Puppies under 16 weeks should get food again mid-day, over 16 weeks in the evenings. Puppies will usually not skip a meal this really applies to adults that are going on a new feeding schedule.

Getting your puppy on a feeding schedule just makes life easier and is a good way to monitor your dog’s weight. You should be able to feel ribs without having to push to hard. Most breeds will also have a tucked in waist. Example of breeds with no waist would be a bulldog.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

[/QUOTE]I just saw where you replied to this Ames, sorry for the late reply. He eats Orijen Puppy (grain-free) which I've been told is the best. We have probiotics from holisticpet.com and were using it for a month to try to get rid of the weak stomach. I will use it after we clear this up. I give him salmon oil once every Friday (2 squirts, again from holisticpet.com). Do you mean canned pumpkin? I just want his stool to harden up.[/QUOTE]

Yup I get real pumpkins in the fall. I'm so excited they are back in season finally. The little ones not the big jackolantern ones. I just wash it and put some olive oil on the outside and back for 1-1.5 hours on 425. Til you can put a knife in it like butter. Let it cool for a few hours and put it in a food processor without the skin and seeds. When no fresh pumpkins are around I used the cans just make sure it's not the spiced pumpkin pie cans. It helps keep the poops regular, not too hard not too soft.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

Wow, first of all, thanks for the overwhelming responses from everyone. I can tell the people on this forum really care about their dogs and I really appreciate it. This is my first dog and I want to make sure he's perfect.

I will cut back, performanceknls. Understand, he's only fed twice a day, but I agree, he should be eating as soon as we put the food in the bowl. We are going to meter back to 3 cups a day. We are also going to continue the antibiotics. Between these two measures, I think we'll find a solution. If not, there's always the vet, and a less protein-rich dog food. Again, thank you all for your help.

Mark


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

3 cups sounds more appropriate, with as rich of nutritional value Orijen offers you may even find yourself cutting back further. The guide on the bag is simply a reference guide, of all the years i've only fed one dog that required exactly what a company recommended.

Sometimes you feed less sometimes you feed more, however unless something is wrong (i.e parasites) there is no reason you should be feeding any where near 5 cups.

Free feeding has a few pros however 9 times out of 10 it has far more cons, many dogs will eat all the food you lay in front of them.. Whether its one cup or 10 cups, very few have i worked with will actually eat what they should being free fed.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> 3 cups sounds more appropriate, with as rich of nutritional value Orijen offers you may even find yourself cutting back further. The guide on the bag is simply a reference guide, of all the years i've only fed one dog that required exactly what a company recommended.
> 
> Sometimes you feed less sometimes you feed more, however unless something is wrong (i.e parasites) there is no reason you should be feeding any where near 5 cups.
> 
> Free feeding has a few pros however 9 times out of 10 it has far more cons, many dogs will eat all the food you lay in front of them.. Whether its one cup or 10 cups, very few have i worked with will actually eat what they should being free fed.


 Never say never!! My dutch shepherd ate over 5 cups a day and weighed 45lbs! I could never keep weight on her till the very end! RIP Weitzen


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## Skye (May 7, 2012)

My dog had the same issue until I added more fiber to her diet. At first I added canned pumpkin (not the kind for pies, plain pumpkin). Thay seemed to work pretty good. I started giving her "missing link" which has worked like a miracle for her poop, skin and coat. I also give her apple cider vinegar (braggs) to boost her immune system and coconut oil for her skin/coat and immune system. Missing link is amazing!


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

*UPDATE*

Well, we finished the week of antibiotics, and his stool is as runny as ever. 

He has an appointment with the vet tomorrow to find out what we can. In better news, he is completely used to our new routine, and eats immediately when we set the food down. We give him 1.5 cups in the morning, and 1.5 in the evening. Orijen still, but I'm starting to fear that it is too rich for him and we'll have to get something milder like Acana. Thanks for all of your help and we will keep you updated.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

mark896 said:


> Well, we finished the week of antibiotics, and his stool is as runny as ever.
> 
> He has an appointment with the vet tomorrow to find out what we can. In better news, he is completely used to our new routine, and eats immediately when we set the food down. We give him 1.5 cups in the morning, and 1.5 in the evening. Orijen still, but I'm starting to fear that it is too rich for him and we'll have to get something milder like Acana. Thanks for all of your help and we will keep you updated.


thanks for the update! although im sorry to hear that he is still having some issues. at least u got the feeding down and he eats all good now


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

*Update #2*

Well, he went to the vet this morning and they did a fecal sample. Right away, they noticed how strong the odor is and said it wasn't right. They weren't able to put an exact name to it, but told us that the bacteria level was extremely high. So they gave us, none other than metronidazole and IAMS Prostora. It was my wife who took him into the vet (I was at work) or else I would've told them we already gave him the metronidazole for a week. So NOW, I have no idea what to do. Should I continue the antibiotics???

Now I'm wondering if what I purchased on ebay was the 'real deal', but get this--the pills from ebay have the EXACT SAME markings as the ones from the vet.. If I continue to give him the antibiotics will it hurt him?? UGH this is frustrating


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

mark896 said:


> Well, he went to the vet this morning and they did a fecal sample. Right away, they noticed how strong the odor is and said it wasn't right. They weren't able to put an exact name to it, but told us that the bacteria level was extremely high. So they gave us, none other than metronidazole and IAMS Prostora. It was my wife who took him into the vet (I was at work) or else I would've told them we already gave him the metronidazole for a week. So NOW, I have no idea what to do. Should I continue the antibiotics???
> 
> Now I'm wondering if what I purchased on ebay was the 'real deal', but get this--the pills from ebay have the EXACT SAME markings as the ones from the vet.. If I continue to give him the antibiotics will it hurt him?? UGH this is frustrating


It's the real deal, it was fishzole right? It's the exact same thing!! So this happened to one of my dogs where the normal dosage of Metronidazole didn't work! He still had the runs just like your dog and that was 10 days of treatment. I took a stool sample in at that point thinking it was something else. They found the same thing and overgrowth of bacteria. We doubled the dose and that did the trick. How much does your dog weigh? Poor Monson had the runs for like over a month till we got it all cleared up.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> It's the real deal, it was fishzole right? It's the exact same thing!! So this happened to one of my dogs where the normal dosage of Metronidazole didn't work! He still had the runs just like your dog and that was 10 days of treatment. I took a stool sample in at that point thinking it was something else. They found the same thing and overgrowth of bacteria. We doubled the dose and that did the trick. How much does your dog weigh? Poor Monson had the runs for like over a month till we got it all cleared up.


Thanks so much for responding quickly, I'm at my wits' end. He is 58 pounds today, and 7 months old. Should I double the dosage? Today is Thursday, is last dose was Tuesday. What do you think?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

WHat are you giving him now? or I should say what did the vet prescribe and was it how much you were giving before?


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> WHat are you giving him now? or I should say what did the vet prescribe and was it how much you were giving before?


Vet prescribed exactly what you said--1 x 500mg tablet twice a day. That's what I gave him for a week, per your advice. I haven't re-started the Metronidazole, was going to give it to him here shortly with dinner.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

You can double the dose. The high end of dosage for metronidazole is 7-14 mgs per pound. So if your dog weighs 58 lbs x 14 that is 812 mgs so 1000mgs is ok. 
The reason you can start off low is most the time that will cure it! if not time to up it and go for 10 day not 7. So give with food two 500mg pills twice a day. I have never had an APBT have a reaction to this med it is pretty safe in bigger dogs (puppies I'm more cautious like under 12 weeks) but as always you need to know the side effects so you can stop meds right away and go to the vet.

Overdoses are seen at much higher dosages and in smaller/younger dogs but if you see


Signs of metronidazole overdose in dogs include drooling more than usual, coordination problems, lack of appetite, strange movements of the eyes, being more tired than usual, loss of vision, strange trembling and seizures. There is currently no test available to warn that the dog is becoming overdosed.


Then you know it's related to the meds. Again I am not trying to scare you I just think it wise that owners know overdose signs of meds if you are at the higher end. You can never say never, ya know? 

All in all this should help clear it up and all in the safe range for a dog that size just always give it with food to avoid tummy upset. Good luck and don't forget when you're done with the meds put him on a probiotic since you are really going to strip the gut of all bacteria, the good and the bad! Also try to make his food the most simple as you can and avoid any supplements till he's done with treatment.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

I understand the risk and will double the dosage. Like I said, the vet also gave us Prostora by IAMS, though I'm not sure exactly what it does. I have some of this:

The Wholistic Pet

Is that what you are telling me to use after we clear it up? If not, what do you recommend?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Oh yeah that is GREAT! I have not used it myself yet but heard great things about it. Keep us posted on how it goes


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

Ok guys, nothing is working so it HAS to be the food. So now, I am looking for a new kibble. He is only 7 months so it has to be puppy food. Also, I'm looking for grain free, unless someone else has advice otherwise. There isn't a Costco near me. I considered Acana but they dont make a grain-free puppy food; Wild Prairie is for adults. Open to all suggestions, thanks in advance.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Grain fee is an all stage dog food I don't think there is a grain free puppy food, but I could be mistaken. However from a medical standpoint keep up with the antibiotics for a full 10 days DO NOT STOP! Obviously he has high levels of bacteria in his gut and it showed on the fecal. This is not from his food this is a problem with his gut. Now don't try a million things in your effort to correct this, try one at a time and WAIT. Too much at once can cause runny stool and compound your problem. You can take another stool sample in to see if the meds are working but IMO just wait. If his gut was that loaded it's going to take several days then his system has to recover. 

If this was my dog I would stay with them meds, don't miss any, and when he's done take a stool sample in to see where you stand. It is also possible for your dog to have something that needs to be treated with Albon and they just did not find it on the first fecal. Albon and metronidazole are similar but Albon gets things like Coccidia. It's hard to play the waiting game I know...

What are you doing for him now? in addition to the meds anything else you are adding to the food?


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> Grain fee is an all stage dog food I don't think there is a grain free puppy food, but I could be mistaken. However from a medical standpoint keep up with the antibiotics for a full 10 days DO NOT STOP! Obviously he has high levels of bacteria in his gut and it showed on the fecal. This is not from his food this is a problem with his gut. Now don't try a million things in your effort to correct this, try one at a time and WAIT. Too much at once can cause runny stool and compound your problem. You can take another stool sample in to see if the meds are working but IMO just wait. If his gut was that loaded it's going to take several days then his system has to recover.
> 
> If this was my dog I would stay with them meds, don't miss any, and when he's done take a stool sample in to see where you stand. It is also possible for your dog to have something that needs to be treated with Albon and they just did not find it on the first fecal. Albon and metronidazole are similar but Albon gets things like Coccidia. It's hard to play the waiting game I know...
> 
> What are you doing for him now? in addition to the meds anything else you are adding to the food?


I am definitely finishing the meds, 1000mg in the morning and then 1000mg in the evening. He also gets the Prostora twice a day. I went and bought a small bag of Blue Wilderness Puppy (grain-free) and this morning his stool seemed like it was stiffening up a little. It actually resembled feces instead of a cow patty. So that's good. It's still real dark in color which is fine by me, at least it's not extremely light and slimy.

He had Coccidia when we first got him but we knocked that out really quick with a pill he gave us. I supplement nothing else into his food except salmon oil, but I haven't done that since this started. So from here, I'm just going to continue the meds and slowly transition from Orijen Puppy (which is grain-free) to Blue Wilderness Puppy. I read up on the Blue Wilderness and it got mixed reviews on this forum but at this point I could give a sh!t--I need something that works. I considered Acana, but they don't have a grain-free puppy food that I could find on their website. I might switch to it when I get him off puppy food. Anyways, that's the update for now.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Grain free puppy that's good to know and must be newer. When I was looking for a grain free puppy food instead of all stage I couldn't find it like a year ago! lol

I would stop the probiotics till your done with the meds. Giving them now does no good as the metronidazole kills it as soon as you give it. It kills good and bad bacteria so I would wait till your done then start it. The less you give now the better and make sure to slowly switch food. I like blue wilderness I had fed it a few times with good results. Hang in there! lol


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> Grain free puppy that's good to know and must be newer. When I was looking for a grain free puppy food instead of all stage I couldn't find it like a year ago! lol
> 
> I would stop the probiotics till your done with the meds. Giving them now does no good as the metronidazole kills it as soon as you give it. It kills good and bad bacteria so I would wait till your done then start it. The less you give now the better and make sure to slowly switch food. I like blue wilderness I had fed it a few times with good results. Hang in there! lol


Hmmm, so you're saying not to give the Prostora until after the metro is finished? The vet told us to use the Prostora only until his stool firmed up and then keep using the metro until finished..


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

OK so here is the logic on that......

Common sense and logic says, the Prostora is a probiotic with good bacteria to help with digestion right?
The Metronidazole is an antibiotic for the gut KILLING all bacteria good and bad......

Do you see where I'm going with this? If it's killing what you're putting into him there is no logical reason to give him the Prostora until after the meds are done. 

Some vets are good some don't use their brain just what they "Think" they know! It's funny sometimes that vets can be so book smart that common sense and logic escapes them! lol Not trying to knock your vet, he set you in the right path just it's normal to wait till your off metronidazole to start any probiotic.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> OK so here is the logic on that......
> 
> Common sense and logic says, the Prostora is a probiotic with good bacteria to help with digestion right?
> The Metronidazole is an antibiotic for the gut KILLING all bacteria good and bad......
> ...


Makes sense, will do. He actually just had a normal turd about 20 minutes ago so I think we are headed in the right direction. I also think the food change made a difference.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

YAY! and lol and cheering for poop!


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

Haha I know! I'm scared to celebrate but it's good. Since I stopped free-feeding I had a suspicion that he was eating his turds and I found out today I was right. This pup is frustrating me. I will fix that problem though.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

lol if it's not one thing it's another! but if he's eating his stool and that's new that means that his poop smells like dog food. Now he could just be gross but I bet he is not digesting all his food and it's just going through him. When you feed him I suggest putting water in so it helps with hydration in the gut to better digest his food. It might help also if his food was too rich he may not have been digesting it all they way either. The food change should help that along with water in the food.


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

He drinks a ton of water between meals, I can't imagine the food not being diluted enough; PLUS the turds are still really moist so I know he's hydrated. I think he's just being a nasty-ass dog.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

There is a difference between being hydrated and hydrating the food when you feed him. The food sucks water from his body to try and hydrated to aid in digestion. When there is not enough water to make the food rehydrate (there is not unless you soak the food) then the body is not making to most of the food. This is best accomplished by either soaking the food before you feed 5-10 mins or just adding water to the food so it will hydrate in the stomach. Drinking water in between is great and normal but when you feed the body needs extra hydration. The same is true in people, you should drink a glass of water before eating to aid in digestion and it also makes you feel fuller eating less


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## mark896 (Jul 3, 2012)

*LAST UPDATE (hopefully)*

Well, I'm happy to report that he's finally back to normal stool. Only problem is, now he's dumping constantly! 

We've cut his intake from 3 to 2 cups per day to see how he does on that. If he starts to lose weight, we'll go back. Thanks to everyone, especially performanceknls for the relentless help, it was a life-saver. :angel:

We now plan to administer probiotics for a few days and hopefully he'll be set!


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