# RE (and others) as APBT's



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Now many people on here disagree with me when i say finding a RE dog that is not an American Bully, mixed or etc and is in true form of APBT would be an extremely hard defeat.. I personally, have never seen a breeder or dog today (not talking history here) with a bully ped be in fact, an APBT.

So for those who do disagree with me i'd love to see one. Show me a well bred APBT that is Razor Edge.

Now we all know that the APBT is not a show dog therefore i am not looking for pictures of dogs that are purely show. I am looking for an APBT in as pure of a form as possible that is an RE bloodline.

I also made this thread for pure interest, i am interested to see what those who disagree with me bring to the table.

BTW i am not bashing any one for disagreeing with me nor am i starting this for a fight, i simply want to see what others can show in terms of a RE APBT.

I know what i believe and what i have seen and i also know from what i have been taught by Dogmen. Every person is different and every person has their own knowledge from different sources so i am willing to accept im wrong if someone can show me the evidence. 

Also, i dont just want a picture. Ideally a PED and some info on the dog. As much as possible would be appreciated!


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## bearsxx (Apr 16, 2011)

Before joing this site I, like a lot of people, always thought bullies were APBT's just different sizes. After reading everyone's post I am starting to understand all the differences between the two breeds.
My question is this...if a dog had RE or Gotti somewhere in their ped does that mean there is no way that dog can be a true APBT even if it looks like one? 
I'm just trying to learn more about this breed so any help is appreciated! Thanks....


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

bearsxx said:


> Before joing this site I, like a lot of people, always thought bullies were APBT's just different sizes. After reading everyone's post I am starting to understand all the differences between the two breeds.
> My question is this...if a dog had RE or Gotti somewhere in their ped does that mean there is no way that dog can be a true APBT even if it looks like one?
> I'm just trying to learn more about this breed so any help is appreciated! Thanks....


That depends greatly on who you ask. For me, unless otherwise proven wrong RE/Gotti = Bully Bloodlines.

If you take a dog with say 25% Gotti and 75% say.. Jeep. Than its a AmBully/APBT mix.

But lets stay back on topic.  There are plenty of threads out there on this subject and this is not what my thread is about.


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## bearsxx (Apr 16, 2011)

So what would makea dog 100% bullie? All RE ped or can any other ped be mixed into it.
I guess that is why I am a little confused because I read different people's responses and some are different than others.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I wonder exactly what it is you are looking for a proven Re dog of what Pictures and peds aren't going to prove a dog is true to form. Or are you just looking for a Re dog that looks the part?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Rudy4747 said:


> I wonder exactly what it is you are looking for a proven Re dog of what Pictures and peds aren't going to prove a dog is true to form. Or are you just looking for a Re dog that looks the part?


Im looking for a dog that looks the part and has a proven PED which includes Razors Edge. Just because most of us don't fight doesn't mean you can't have an APBT with a proven PED.

Even if its just one tested and proven RE dog in the ped i would find that interesting.

Any RE dog i've ever seen has been American Bully, dogmen i've learned from as well as spoken to, when the topic comes up theres no RE dog now in days that is APBT.

There are people here that respectfully disagree with me, i am respectfully asking in a sense "proven me wrong.". Show me a RE dog that is not American Bully.

I made this thread for those that disagree when i say RE = Bully to show me otherwise. I am not too "big" to admit when im wrong.

The people that i have seen disagree with me speak of it as there have been plenty of RE dogs not AmBully.. I have yet to see one so thought id call everyone out and see these dogs with info on them and PEDs.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

There are dogs that look the part. However, I highly doubt you will get a proven RE dog. Not only was it illegal when they came about, but what dogman do you know of would test a RE dog when there are plenty of other lines out there that have already been proven?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

i think In that other thread that you jumped to calling a dog a bully because the guy said it has RE in its ped what people where referring to is there could be 1 RE dog or a couple in the ped and other names in the ped be APBT dogs making the dog not necissarily a bully , also not saying said dog would automatically be APBT, but if there is more APBT lines then bully then it very well could still be. I have a dog who is bully on one half and APBT on the other half , neither halfs making him a true APBT or a true bully he is scatterbred. good reson not to jump to conclusion when someone says they have RE in there peds without checking what the rest of the ped looks like 1st.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Well I think everyone and there momma knows how I feel about this. I have spoken to several dog men. None of them and I mean not one of them will ever agree that anything from RE is an APBT. Staff yes . But APBT No... Dog men are the messiah for the breed they created it not Dave or any other bully breeder. There are no game tested RE dogs out there because that was never the intended purpose for the bloodline to begin with. Anyway I still stand firm that RE dog's old and new are not APBT's they are bullies or show staff's.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Well I think everyone and there momma knows how I feel about this. I have spoken to several dog men. None of them and I mean not one of them will ever agree that anything from RE is an APBT. Staff yes . But APBT No... Dog men are the messiah for the breed they created it not Dave or any other bully breeder. There are no game tested RE dogs out there because that was never the intended purpose for the bloodline to begin with. Anyway I still stand firm that RE dog's old and new are not APBT's they are bullies or show staff's.


:goodpost:


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Well I think everyone and there momma knows how I feel about this. I have spoken to several dog men. None of them and I mean not one of them will ever agree that anything from RE is an APBT. Staff yes . But APBT No... Dog men are the messiah for the breed they created it not Dave or any other bully breeder. There are no game tested RE dogs out there because that was never the intended purpose for the bloodline to begin with. Anyway I still stand firm that RE dog's old and new are not APBT's they are bullies or show staff's.


:goodpost:I can agree with this. Now sure, some have been intertwined with apbt blood but most of them are show dogs. NO [ ] dogs. Showbred apbt's, AST, same  to a degree ( once you get into the whole non proven


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> :goodpost:


So if you know the answer, what exactly are you trying to look for? Im no dogman by any means and I can appreciate a fine bully. However, I would never [ ]a RE dog even if I was in a country where it was legal. No point.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> i think In that other thread that you jumped to calling a dog a bully because the guy said it has RE in its ped what people where referring to is there could be 1 RE dog or a couple in the ped and other names in the ped be APBT dogs making the dog not necissarily a bully , also not saying said dog would automatically be APBT, but if there is more APBT lines then bully then it very well could still be. I have a dog who is bully on one half and APBT on the other half , neither halfs making him a true APBT or a true bully he is scatterbred. good reson not to jump to conclusion when someone says they have RE in there peds without checking what the rest of the ped looks like 1st.


I did not make this based on that thread or any other single thread. I made this simply to call people to the front on this. Disagreeing with someone is healthy, all im asking for is if you disagree with me.. Show me dont just talk. 

In any other thread about bloodline i tell people what i feel and i always add the fact you cant know 100% with a PED. Im not a moron.

I jumped on the thread you speak of because his dog is RE/blue and is NOT a pit bull and not one person said anything about it, instead people focus on me again..THIS thread has nothing to do with THAT one.

So, with that said... back on topic


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> So if you know the answer, what exactly are you trying to look for? Im no dogman by any means and I can appreciate a fine bully. However, I would never [ ]a RE dog even if I was in a country where it was legal. No point.


I know what I believe and i agree with Sadie. Doesn't mean i cant be shown different. Im giving people an opportunity that give me crap for saying RE = NOT APBT to come forth and show me. This is all.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Plus you have to look at how many blue dog's came up out of that line from the very beginning you can't get that lucky unless you throw some staff blood up in the mix because this is where most of the Blue dog's come from the staff . The foundation of the line was basically from what we know it to be APBTxStaff blood then it went a whole entirely different direction. Staff's are not APBT's so how someone can say the original dog's out of this line were APBT's is beyond me.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

I operate as the following..
A Bully = Bully
APBT = APBT
Staff = Staff
Lab = Lab
GSD = GSD
etc..

Im not doubting what i believe because ive never been proven wrong. Im hoping for those that disagree with me to show me a picture, ped, etc of a RE that is in fact, APBT.

Too many people are all talk with nothing backing that talk up.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> I know what I believe and i agree with Sadie. Doesn't mean i cant be shown different. Im giving people an opportunity that give me crap for saying RE = NOT APBT to come forth and show me. This is all.


Yea I gotcha. I mean while not RE are not all bullies, I can agree that many of them are ast's. As, AST's had their origins as apbt's and many ast's can show as apbt's, especially conditioned. There are people who have some lines of RE that work like the APBT's and AST's of working bloodlines. You gotta look around. They are out there.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL KMdog's I have challenged those same people with this same argument and it got really nasty. No one here can show you a RE proven box dog because it doesn't exist. I have learned to agree to disagree because I know I am right and no one can prove to me what I know to be true. If there were proven RE dog's out there we would know about it. But all you have to do is ask a dog man if he would or has ever bet on a RE dog and you will soon get your answer. LOL People will say what they want to but you and I are probably the only 2 on this forum who agree on this subject. You go to a game dog website and everyone would agree with you.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

are you looking for APBT lines with RE ? or am staff cause now im confused. I think you would have better luck finding am staffs that are RE lines .And I dont think you needed to get so defensive. You said you know its not a APBT in that other thread but you know its a bully without looking at a ped? wow you are one talented guy. { blue doesnt mean bully} and I never said you were a moron so dont twist my words please. There are alot of amstaffs with RE lines are you looking for today amstaffs? or can we go back to original RE dogs that were used to make bullys becasue they werent bullys back then.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> Yea I gotcha. I mean while not RE are not all bullies, I can agree that many of them are ast's. As, AST's had their origins as apbt's and many ast's can show as apbt's, especially conditioned. There are people who have some lines of RE that work like the APBT's and AST's of working bloodlines. You gotta look around. They are out there.


You'd be hard pressed to find an RE AST any more, thats about as hard to find as a true APBT... if not harder.

To me, RE = Bully is a pretty safe assessment. I realize its not ALWAYS the case but more often than not, its true.

Too many people say RE + Blue coat = It might not be a bully! Well, thats true it might be a staffy. But honestly, what are the chances? SLIM.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Mach0 said:


> Yea I gotcha. I mean while not RE are not all bullies, I can agree that many of them are ast's. As, AST's had their origins as apbt's and many ast's can show as apbt's, especially conditioned. There are people who have some lines of RE that work like the APBT's and AST's of working bloodlines. You gotta look around. They are out there.


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Plus you have to look at how many blue dog's came up out of that line from the very beginning you can't get that lucky unless you throw some staff blood up in the mix because this is where most of the Blue dog's come from the staff . The foundation of the line was basically from what we know it to be APBTxStaff blood then it went a whole entirely different direction. Staff's are not APBT's so how someone can say the original dog's out of this line were APBT's is beyond me.


UKC showbred apbt's. Im sure some good bloodlines are thrown in the mix but this was probably back in day. A friend of mine had a RE/ GAFF dog, PP trained / 2x agility ch. That boy had more Alligator in him that who knows what ( i think Plumbers.) Sad to say, he turned on and died from infection in a kennel accident ( NEVER LEAVE YOUR DOGS ALONE TOGETHER PERIOD)


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> are you looking for APBT lines with RE ? or am staff cause now im confused. I think you would have better luck finding am staffs that are RE lines .And I dont think you needed to get so defensive. You said you know its not a APBT in that other thread but you know its a bully without looking at a ped? wow you are one talented guy. { blue doesnt mean bully} and I never said you were a moron so dont twist my words please. There are alot of amstaffs with RE lines are you looking for today amstaffs? or can we go back to original RE dogs that were used to make bullys becasue they werent bullys back then.


I want to see a Razors Edge APBT. You are reading too much into what im saying. Leave that thread out of this one as its not why i made this thread.

When did i say you said i was a moron? lol


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> UKC showbred apbt's. Im sure some good bloodlines are thrown in the mix but this was probably back in day. A friend of mine had a RE/ GAFF dog, PP trained / 2x agility ch. That boy had more Alligator in him that who knows what ( i think Plumbers.) Sad to say, he turned on and died from infection in a kennel accident ( NEVER LEAVE YOUR DOGS ALONE TOGETHER PERIOD)


Purely show bred dogs are not APBTs.. If you ask me.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

KMdogs said:


> Purely show bred dogs are not APBTs.. If you ask me.


No they are not LOL show bred dog=staff

Box bred dog= APBT

And to complicate it more you now have breeder's who breed staff blood into game blood and call them pitterstaff's ... I don't agree with these type of breedings but that's just me. (I love all my fellow pitter staff owner's though) LOL


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Sadie said:


> LOL KMdog's I have challenged those same people with this same argument and it got really nasty. No one here can show you a RE proven box dog because it doesn't exist. I have learned to agree to disagree because I know I am right and no one can prove to me what I know to be true. If there were proven RE dog's out there we would know about it. But all you have to do is ask a dog man if he would or has ever bet on a RE dog and you will soon get your answer. LOL People will say what they want to but you and I are probably the only 2 on this forum who agree on this subject. You go to a game dog website and everyone would agree with you.


No I agree. There isnt a point. I dont get a Jeep bred dog and show abkc. Its not what they are bred for.



KMdogs said:


> You'd be hard pressed to find an RE AST any more, thats about as hard to find as a true APBT... if not harder.
> 
> To me, RE = Bully is a pretty safe assessment. I realize its not ALWAYS the case but more often than not, its true.
> 
> Too many people say RE + Blue coat = It might not be a bully! Well, thats true it might be a staffy. But honestly, what are the chances? SLIM.


I can agree to an extent. Correct me if I am wrong but bullies went their own route and hence they are their own breed now. So less and less foundation type will be seen since the " bullier" type is whats being promoted and foundation dogs are no longer needed.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> Purely show bred dogs are not APBTs.. If you ask me.


Thats why I agreed with Sadie's post. I never considered calling it a amstaff but after x amount of generations without being [ ] thats what you have. I also havent thought of it this way until she posted it.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> No I agree. There isnt a point. I dont get a Jeep bred dog and show abkc. Its not what they are bred for.
> 
> I can agree to an extent. Correct me if I am wrong but bullies went their own route and hence they are their own breed now. So less and less foundation type will be seen since the " bullier" type is whats being promoted and foundation dogs are no longer needed.


Im not a breeder but that sounds right if im understanding what your saying.

Its like the "dogs came from wolves" thing.. People make it sound like it happened yesterday..What happened to the thousands of years in between? lol


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> I did not make this based on that thread or any other single thread. I made this simply to call people to the front on this. Disagreeing with someone is healthy, all im asking for is if you disagree with me.. Show me dont just talk.
> 
> In any other thread about bloodline i tell people what i feel and i always add the fact you cant know 100% with a PED. Im not a moron.
> 
> ...


I dont disagree with you the RE is a bully line I disagree in what you said in the 1st place sorry for the confusion .

I said dont jump to conclusions and say he is a bully ?! there is nothing to show because I never said a RE is a APBT , i clearly stated that just because his dog looks likes a bully , and has RE in it {supposedly} that is does not mean it was a bully because there is no ped .. JUST LIKE THE APBT .so take that as you want .. and people are singling you out, because you posted in RAZOR1oo thread where we were talking about this in the first place that he was a Bully .. so yea people are going to think that is what you are talking about ..

No on to the thread .. personally I have never seen a true APBT with RE in it because Im pretty sure there is no such thing , but that doesn't make it a bully that would make it a scatter bred , byb type of dog .. sorry for the confusion :thumbsup:


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sadie said:


> No they are not LOL show bred dog=staff
> 
> Box bred dog= APBT
> 
> And to complicate it more you now have breeder's who breed staff blood into game blood and call them pitterstaff's ... I don't agree with these type of breedings but that's just me. (I love all my fellow pitter staff owner's though) LOL


Pitterstaffs? I've heard the term but never cared enough to look into it.. I wish people would leave dogs alone. The only time i ever agree with purposely crossing two separate breeds is if there is a purpose.. a valid purpose.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

IzzosMommy said:


> I dont disagree with you the RE is a bully line I disagree in what you said in the 1st place sorry for the confusion .
> 
> I said dont jump to conclusions and say he is a bully ?! there is nothing to show because I never said a RE is a APBT , i clearly stated that just because his dog looks likes a bully , and has RE in it {supposedly} that is does not mean it was a bully because there is no ped .. JUST LIKE THE APBT .so take that as you want .. and people are singling you out, because you posted in RAZOR1oo thread where we were talking about this in the first place that he was a Bully .. so yea people are going to think that is what you are talking about ..
> 
> No on to the thread .. personally I have never seen a true APBT with RE in it because Im pretty sure there is no such thing , but that doesn't make it a bully that would make it a scatter bred , byb type of dog .. sorry for the confusion :thumbsup:


*I did not make this thread based on what you said and that thread* There are plenty of other people on this thread i've "debated" with on this topic.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

LMAO someone gave me negative "rep" for this thread.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

There is no such thing as the registries don't acknowledge any such breed of dogs LOL.

But this is an example of a pitter staff breeding to me it's just as bad as taking a bully and breeding it to a game dog. Staff's have no business being bred to game dogs lol this is just an example of what I am referring to.

APBT ONLINE PEDIGREES 

Look at the top half of the ped then look at the bottom half and look at where those dog's stem from.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Sadie said:


> There is no such thing as the registries don't acknowledge any such breed of dogs LOL.
> 
> But this is an example of a pitter staff breeding to me it's just as bad as taking a bully and breeding it to a game dog. Staff's have no business being bred to game dogs lol this is just an example of what I am referring to.
> 
> ...


IDK Sadie, thats kinda ::::eh i dont know what to say:::::
Although the breed has been shown on its own under the AKC, take a look at its record. Breed says Amstaff. Ped and wins say APBT. However, instead of the gamedog being breed to an amstaff in this case, its more along the lines of why [ ] an amstaff. They should have left the[ ] alone the day it set out as an entirely different breed. But  like this adds to the mass confusion-----not you but [ ] an amstaff and showing bullies as apbt's or even breeding a bully to an 
apbt. IMHO, wanna be a different breed, be a different breed. Not the same breed under a different name.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

HAHA i can almost feel the heat coming thru this computer screen...
::::::flamesuit on::::::::::


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> *I did not make this thread based on what you said and that thread* There are plenty of other people on this thread i've "debated" with on this topic.


Okay , just wanted to clarify and make sure about this =] have a nice day ..

and someone probably gave you negative rep points because you seem very rude and defensive about this topic to just want to learn about it ,, it seems like you are trying to justify things you stated by starting this thread .. jus sayin


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> LMAO someone gave me negative "rep" for this thread.


become vip---you will see who it was:rofl:


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> Pitterstaffs? I've heard the term but never cared enough to look into it.. I wish people would leave dogs alone. The only time i ever agree with purposely crossing two separate breeds is if there is a purpose.. a valid purpose.


Before the UKC closed it's single registration, those dogs could still be registered as APBT's as well as AKC Amstaff's. You probably already knew that though...:woof:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Mach0 said:


> become vip---you will see who it was:rofl:


LMAO!!!! I am trying to get him in .... Something tell's me he will be VIP very very soon :roll: Don't worry buddy I sent some positive rep points back your way!


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Sadie said:


> LMAO!!!! I am trying to get him in .... Something tell's me he will be VIP very very soon :roll: Don't worry buddy I sent some positive rep points back your way!


Good so I can talk


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## bearsxx (Apr 16, 2011)

DO you have to be VIP to give positive rep? I like to give KM some positive rep for this thread because this is exactly what was confusing me and now I am getting a better understanding of bully breeds and APBT's....


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> :goodpost:


agreed
if it has anything RE in it you can either consider it a bully or a mutt .. dont matter percentages .


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

KM, I'm not going to wade in too deeply on this one but others have basically backed up what I was saying to you on another thread. I agree with you that you won't find a true, tested APBT with RE in the ped because they simply aren't out there. However, as I was saying to you before, RE doesn't automatically = bully as there are permutations that allow for a given dog to be called an amstaff (rare though they may be).

For the most part, I think we agree on this.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

bearsxx said:


> DO you have to be VIP to give positive rep? I like to give KM some positive rep for this thread because this is exactly what was confusing me and now I am getting a better understanding of bully breeds and APBT's....


Anyone can give positive or negative rep. VIPs can see who gave them what.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

bearsxx said:


> DO you have to be VIP to give positive rep? I like to give KM some positive rep for this thread because this is exactly what was confusing me and now I am getting a better understanding of bully breeds and APBT's....


There is. However, utilize the search button or browse the appropriate section. This  has been beaten to a pulp:hammer:


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Mach0 said:


> There is. However, utilize the search button or browse the appropriate section. This  has been beaten to a pulp:hammer:


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

motocross308 said:


> agreed
> if it has anything RE in it you can either consider it a bully or a mutt .. dont matter percentages .


I'd go bully or staff ( by definition of showing type apbt's)
I wouldnt go as far as saying mutt as there their own breed and they are here to stay. Sure the origins are uknown. Same goes for APBT's but they are still here. Hopefully, all breeders will remain ethical in their breeding practices.


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

Mach0 said:


> I'd go bully or staff ( by definition of showing type apbt's)
> I wouldnt go as far as saying mutt as there their own breed and they are here to stay. Sure the origins are uknown. Same goes for APBT's but they are still here. Hopefully, all breeders will remain ethical in their breeding practices.


the reason i would say mut is the disaster that is the standard .. it allows them to breed in all kinda pooh and still call it whatever.
you get different versions from DW himself of what they are .

in 20 years , if they tighten up thier standard and get everything strait then ill 
be happy to see them as a proper breed.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

motocross308 said:


> the reason i would say mut is the disaster that is the standard .. it allows them to breed in all kinda pooh and still call it whatever.
> you get different versions from DW himself of what they are .
> 
> in 20 years , if they tighten up thier standard and get everything strait then ill
> be happy to see them as a proper breed.


Theres a standard. Whether they are breeding to them is an entirely different situation. I would rather see the poor examples culled or removed from the breeding practices.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Mach0 said:


> Theres a standard. Whether they are breeding to them is an entirely different situation. I would rather see the poor examples culled or removed from the breeding practices.


:goodpost: I think too many people get hung up on one interview that DW did 10 years ago that gets constantly dragged back up and rehashed. What matters is that there is a standard (several if you include the different classes) and that people are breeding to it. The future is forward not backwards.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

aus_staffy said:


> :goodpost: I think too many people get hung up on one interview that DW did 10 years ago that gets constantly dragged back up and rehashed. What matters is that there is a standard (several if you include the different classes) and that people are breeding to it. The future is forward not backwards.


 :roll::roll::clap:


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Sadie said:


> There is no such thing as the registries don't acknowledge any such breed of dogs LOL.
> 
> But this is an example of a pitter staff breeding to me it's just as bad as taking a bully and breeding it to a game dog. Staff's have no business being bred to game dogs lol this is just an example of what I am referring to.
> 
> ...


So what exactly makes this pitter staff both top and bottom are proven in the third generation?


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## CaLi 2 B.C. (Dec 4, 2010)

RAZOR'S EDGE TIZE RAGIN HURRICANE (i cant cut/paste on here) Its on bullypedia this is a true RAZOR'S EDGE dog that is from proven APBT's X AST's. Look at 6 gen at least,im sure there is RE dogs with more APBT in them but this is a example i know of.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Rudy4747 said:


> So what exactly makes this pitter staff both top and bottom are proven in the third generation?


Because those are blue staff's bred from staff's and the matches on the bottom are questionable with some of those dogs. I am not going to get into it. But if you do a search on game-dog about the TNT line and the dog's mentioned in those peds you will get a bunch more info about it. I used to own a TNT bred dog there is nothing wrong with the dog's they have working potential but they are staff's not APBT's.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Because those are blue staff's bred from staff's and the matches on the bottom are questionable with some of those dogs. I am not going to get into it. But if you do a search on game-dog about the TNT line and the dog's mentioned in those peds you will get a bunch more info about it. I used to own a TNT bred dog there is nothing wrong with the dog's they have working potential but they are staff's not APBT's.


haha- I didnt know it was questioned. You gonna make me go read it up. Im always on GD reading


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Sadie said:


> Because those are blue staff's bred from staff's and the matches on the bottom are questionable with some of those dogs. I am not going to get into it. But if you do a search on game-dog about the TNT line and the dog's mentioned in those peds you will get a bunch more info about it. I used to own a TNT bred dog there is nothing wrong with the dog's they have working potential but they are staff's not APBT's.


So if some one was to post a ped and said this is a APBT with Re in it and said the dog was proven then people still would say well that is Questionable. Most game owners could see a blue dog rip into a game bred dog and still say well is that dog really game I don't think he could go the distance. So what is the point of this thread? Nothing can be proven here to change any ones mind.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Rudy I didn't start the thread I am just participating in it like everyone else. I personally could care less either way.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I was asking in general because frankly i could care less too. But seems like no could ever find the answer here the only way to know for sure would be to test a true to form Re dog. So like i said it would never be 100% provable here. there are plenty of Re dog out there that still look and act the part. But no one could know cause as we all have said before the only way to prove gameness is to test the dogs.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Well if a RE dog went into the box and won a legit match I would say that was a game freaking bully LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

haha yes VIP is potentially on the horizon  and thanks Sadie, i didn't really care if i got negative rep or not but i thought it was funny with the comment that was left saying i was a "mr know it all".

So given that its safe to say people that believe RE can be APBT won't come out and stand up for it, i suppose that part of this thread is a loss.

So based on what i have seen and learned over the years i really don't believe there are hardly any RE American Staffordshires left, does anyone know of any out there right now? Just wondering. I haven't seen any in a long time i guess in part since i don't keep up with the Bully lines or that entire scene. Too much chaos and scattered to keep up with them. lol

Too many people look at the "original" dogs and think "Its not just a Bully line" but given the amount of breeders breeding for Bully and lack of AmStaff over the years, it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't any RE Staff's left.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Well if a RE dog went into the box and won a legit match I would say that was a game freaking bully LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If a Bully won in the [] i think i would be in complete and utter silence from being in awe.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

KMdogs said:


> haha yes VIP is potentially on the horizon  and thanks Sadie, i didn't really care if i got negative rep or not but i thought it was funny with the comment that was left saying i was a "mr know it all".
> 
> So given that its safe to say people that believe RE can be APBT won't come out and stand up for it, i suppose that part of this thread is a loss.
> 
> ...


Your right there is hardly any of that staff RE stock left I think the RE stuff came about in the late 80's early 90's dogs don't live forever and because of the direction the line was taken I am sure it would be very difficult to find anything left from the original strain or any breeder who would have maintained the original stock as RE today is a well known BULLY line. So to try and go back looking for the old stuff those dog's are most likely dead and gone.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Your right there is hardly any of that staff RE stock left I think the RE stuff came about in the late 80's early 90's dogs don't live forever and because of the direction the line was taken I am sure it would be very difficult to find anything left from the original strain or any breeder who would have maintained the original stock as RE today is a well known BULLY line. So to try and go back looking for the old stuff those dog's are most likely dead and gone.


I like the original stuff conditioned. They look pretty damn good. IDK how they worked but looks alone- good


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I will come out and this Dooney my dog with Re in him Balance out with a few "game line" I use the terms loosely is great working dog i would not consider him Bully but.... Neither would I consider him a pure APBT love the dog but i have gone out and gotten my hands into some really nice pups that will be leaning closer to what i am looking at for True bulldogs. even though Dooney is great he lacks something that APBT should have he has got a flame and i would like a fire. Love him though and will make some great show and working dogs (if that is what we decide).


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Your right there is hardly any of that staff RE stock left I think the RE stuff came about in the late 80's early 90's dogs don't live forever and because of the direction the line was taken I am sure it would be very difficult to find anything left from the original strain or any breeder who would have maintained the original stock as RE today is a well known BULLY line. So to try and go back looking for the old stuff those dog's are most likely dead and gone.


I didn't think there really was, would be cool to see an original strain out there some where though. Maybe i aggravate a lot of people with my train of thought on the subject but i will always say RE = Bully or mix. Period. (in today's dogs at least)

To me considering an RE Staff now in days would be like considering a merle APBT.. Just the thought of that subject makes me cringe. I compare the two because on both people do a lot of talking but no one knows what they are talking about and if you take a step back to look at the big picture, what your talking about either doesn't exist or isn't a "purebred". :rofl:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Rudy4747 said:


> I will come out and this Dooney my dog with Re in him Balance out with a few "game line" I use the terms loosely is great working dog i would not consider him Bully but.... Neither would I consider him a pure APBT love the dog but i have gone out and gotten my hands into some really nice pups that will be leaning closer to what i am looking at for True bulldogs. even though Dooney is great he lacks something that APBT should have he has got a flame and i would like a fire. Love him though and will make some great show and working dogs (if that is what we decide).


He is a gorgeous dog regardless and you have done more with him then most people do with their dog's on a daily basis. I have owned blue dog's I have owned staff's. I chose to go a different direction because I too wanted a dog bred from working stock that I could work and do all the things APBT's excel at. There is def a difference if you have had the opportunity to own both breeds. Dog's like what I own now are a lot of dog but I am hooked and wouldn't trade them for the world.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sadie said:


> He is a gorgeous dog regardless and you have done more with him then most people do with their dog's on a daily basis. I have owned blue dog's I have owned staff's. I chose to go a different direction because I too wanted a dog bred from working stock that I could work and do all the things APBT's excel at. There is def a difference if you have had the opportunity to own both breeds. Dog's like what I own now are a lot of dog but I am hooked and wouldn't trade them for the world.


If you ever get bored with APBT's you can go the Bandogge route. I've owned APBT's and known mixes of the breed most of my life, getting a Bandogge.. well..lets just say he keeps me on my toes. haha Great dog though.

Rudy, good looking dog!


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I know what you mean we have ready now and she is just a pup and not directley from game stock but down from some dogs that proved to be very nice. Just a pup she is so different. Dooney is great but it takes a lot of work to pull that good stuff out of him with Ready she is so different. I am waiting on a breeding that is going to bring an excellent little bulldog to us he will be grandson to Lukane and also to Stockyards travis. Amazing dogs on both side. but i will hold my breath till the breeding is confirmed both parents are older dogs. Both were great in their hey day.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

..............


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## bearsxx (Apr 16, 2011)

All I can say is WOW!!! I searched quite a bit on here and read a lot of different threads as suggested to gain some knowledge on the differences between breeds....Quite a few people on here make great points and are knowledgable of both Bullys and APBT's history. All I know is I am glad I never plan on breeding lol....I got Ariya so my boys and I will have a loving, loyal companion for years to come. It seems no matter everyones opinions on the subject everyone loves their dogs no matter what breed or mix they are which in my opinion is the main thing!!!!


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

bearsxx said:


> All I can say is WOW!!! I searched quite a bit on here and read a lot of different threads as suggested to gain some knowledge on the differences between breeds....Quite a few people on here make great points and are knowledgable of both Bullys and APBT's history. All I know is I am glad I never plan on breeding lol....I got Ariya so my boys and I will have a loving, loyal companion for years to come. It seems no matter everyones opinions on the subject everyone loves their dogs no matter what breed or mix they are which in my opinion is the main thing!!!!


Were all passionate here. Theres lots of good knowledge here and you can learn quite a lot.. You will just have to learn how to cypher through the BS and know whats fact and whats not. Don't worry though, once you start learning its usually pretty easy to start piecing together the puzzles.

I'd say the two people on here i'd really suggest "following" and learning from is PerformanceKnls and Sadie.


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## bearsxx (Apr 16, 2011)

I don't post a lot but come here daily just to go through noth new and old posts. Even though I don't plan on doing anything special with Ariya except training here I want to learn as much as possible about the breed. I knew the basics from owning two before, and had no problems with them. but that was when APBT's weren't always in the news. Now I read what other people experienced and what they did so I know what to do if any of those situations happened to us. Good thing is all 4 of my boys are always wanting to know what I learned each day about the breed as they are very interested in making sure Ariya "dont get into any trouble" as they say lol....


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Guys this thread is not about bandogg's it's about RE dog's if ya'll want to discuss bandogg's start another thread. Kmdogs asked to see a pedigree on a RE dog that has been proven to be APBT there isn't one so end of story. Stay on topic or thread will get closed.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> You'd be hard pressed to find an RE AST any more, thats about as hard to find as a true APBT... if not harder.
> 
> To me, RE = Bully is a pretty safe assessment. I realize its not ALWAYS the case but more often than not, its true.
> 
> Too many people say RE + Blue coat = It might not be a bully! Well, thats true it might be a staffy. But honestly, what are the chances? SLIM.


I don't like to generalize, which is why I said what I did. All I am saying is just because someone says their dog is RE don't just say you don't have an APBT you have an American Bully when you have seen neither the ped nor the dog. While you are right that it might be a "safe assessment" I don't think we should assume that someone's dog is a bully just because they say RE. Same goes for Certified Blood or Gotti etc. People hear Certified and assume Am Bully when in actuality Certified dogs are not Am Bullies; however, they have been used as foundation dogs in the bully world. *
*


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

You guys want to argue take this crap to VIP I asked you not to continue this mess in this thread I am not going to ask again.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

*THREAD CLOSED!*


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

first of all that TNT dog on its own is an AST .. however its a working strain; like the Tacoma down from corvino; and working heinzel/colby stock in the AKC .. the ones that are pure in original form taken back to a [] bred dog is as good a cross out as any and I use the term APBT losely on here because of the way people understand things because of current laws.. BUT I would call that dog an APBT topside heavy linebred game dogs on top of performance true to funciton AST a APBT as AST of that stock started with game stock dogs. BUT you gotta have proven stock to clean up your blood; we can see that in all the pedigrees going back; hell you got some dogs that are AKC ADBA UKC then you have some that are APBT CHs with AST siblings Primo was such a case. As are many nebbelletts dogs go another way as OFRN .. so you have dogs that have been registered as something different in different registeries and people keeping those lines as close to originality as possible.. []bred dog to a big fat headed AST.. entirely different story:flush:

RE.. like Whopper leave my ears ringing after searching peds and dogs ... I know the whopper history pretty darn good and RE I kept up with until the bully fad name cause they were some of the best dogs that were APBT/AST duel registered .. I'd seen as a green horn.. LOL .. I agree with that statement for the most part... for the most part... Then I see dogs like this ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [321334] :: JOY'S MISS DOLLY .. that remind me there are some people who got the original RE strain and did not dillute it with paper rung dogs.. Another reminder is that I myself bred whopper and game dog together back in the day to show I could bring whopper down to 35lbs and did so














and a pic of Buddy with my cousins and a few they picked out of my Jocko litter mind you the pups are 5-6months old LOL they grow fast that blood.. Buddy was 55% whopper and outcrossed with his sires blood who was LongsStomperXWilderGerII inbred taken to inbred steveschbull stacked on inbred linbred ChFredT/Loposay dogs.. He left my ownership and came back with a couple of stripes and I had my cousin let him knot up with my best bred Hooch gyp.. MY POINT???? I bet I could take a killer mayday dog and take to that RE at against the wind and end up the only []bred RE dog in the nation especially cause I'd send that SOB to a friend of mine not in the USA or get me a summer home in mexico or canada.. but IM a genetic enthusiast; a breeder... I know alot about manipulation and purification of genetics..

OTHER THAN THAT......... I agree with whats being said 100% function is everything.. Turk is 35lbs and probably 1/4 whopper the rest all JRB, Tonka, OFRN(lightner) and my own creation of a bulldog using all APBT dogs. AGAIN my point?

What we do with the dogs that we own prove what kind of dogs we have.. the dog makes its pedigree as the pedigree makes the dog.. SOME WHERE [] is dominant in ALL APBTs so for those who are breeding performance and possibly forest gumping their way into breeding for the [] because of the traits they find admirable are one and the same with the dogs bred for the [] and they didnt/dont know it.. LOL

there is always variables .. possibilities... variations..... Im a firm believer in that heavy game stock.. I believe you could straigten any line out with proven stock from Mayday, Tants, Hammonds, Wildside(some of them), and of course Buck,Tonka, and AndyCapp.. and a smidge of the pure OFRN strains... Cause I've seen it DONE.. FOR THE MOST PART .. RE are not true to form but thats not without variance. Theres always room for foot in mouth. hahahaha never say never I dont get proved wrong often but now again I have to swallow that rock; like finding out I had more whopper in my dogs than I thought.. LOL well.. I still proved myself right by proven myself wrong..


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