# Puppy size questions.



## Robert Jordan (May 10, 2011)

Hey all I have a 6 month old male Razors Edge Cross named Buck. Currently he weighs in at 60lbs. He eats a total of four cups of Evanger's Pheasant and Brown Rice dry food a day and is doing great. He's been working out on his springpole as well and running around 10 acres of land so he's getting plenty of excercise. Now my question to you that are familiar with this line is how large would be a reasonable estimate to say he will be at maturity? He's got huge paws and a broad head for a 6 month old pup so I'm assuming he will be fairly large as he's already 60lbs. Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

what is he crossed with? he looks big like mastiff. no way to tell exactly knowing he is a cross , did you see the parents ? how large where they ?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

You have an american bully and RE dogs have gone in many directions so it is hard to say how big he will get. The best gage you have is to look at his parents. If you do not know them then you can take his weight when he was 4 months and double it. It would be only a guess but it will get you close to how big he should get.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Whats the dog crossed with? There's no real way to tell but like PK said, you can guess close to it based upon the size at 4 months.


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## Robert Jordan (May 10, 2011)

He is 100% APBT. What I mean by cross is his pedigree is mainly Razors Edge crossed with Winegarner's line. 

At 3 mos he weighed in at 25.14 lbs and at 4 mos he weighed in at 35.6 lbs.

If it helps at all his Great Great Grandparents on the Sire's side are Razors Edge "Sea Breeze" & Razors Edge "Purple Rose of Cairo" both are Grand Champion animals, his Great Grandmother is Razors Edge "Rayna" and his Great Grandfather is Winegarner's "Blue Devil".


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

No way of telling, especially if you dont know what hes mixed with. I will say since no one else has, 6 months is extremely young for spring pole. A little bit off and on may be okay however if your doing it frequently it could pose health problems later on down the line.

Ive never worked a dog with that kind of stuff until at very least 10 months i slowly introduce it. You never want to over work your pup with hard exercise/conditioning as its proven more likely than not to cause health problems such as sever joint pain later in life.

I dont know how frequently you do this, however if it is often i would urge you to let off of it for a good while and slowly introduce the exercise later as development increases.

I generally follow the path of allowing a pup to be a puppy, a dog has its whole life a head of them no need to rush into that type of stuff prematurely


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Well you came to the right place!! You do not have an APBT sorry to tell you that. You have an American Bully. The dogs you listed are American Bullies not APBT's and just based on size alone I could have told you he was not an APBT. Full grown APBT's max out at about 75lbs but most are about 40-60lbs. Just looking at your male he is very much an American Bully not an APBT regardless of what your paperwork says. There is a lot of info on this site to help you understand what an American Bully is vs an APBT and we will help you understand and answer any questions you have. Check out the Bully 101 section


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Robert Jordan said:


> He is 100% APBT. What I mean by cross is his pedigree is mainly Razors Edge crossed with Winegarner's line.
> 
> At 3 mos he weighed in at 25.14 lbs and at 4 mos he weighed in at 35.6 lbs.
> 
> If it helps at all his Great Great Grandparents on the Sire's side are Razors Edge "Sea Breeze" & Razors Edge "Purple Rose of Cairo" both are Grand Champion animals, his Great Grandmother is Razors Edge "Rayna" and his Great Grandfather is Winegarner's "Blue Devil".


Hes American Bully not APBT. Razors Edge is a Bully line, Winegarner i dont know a whole lot about but from what i have heard it can go either way.

Please educate yourself on what AmBully is vs APBT as this is something that aggravates many people calling your dog a breed it isnt.

6 months @ 60lbs is in NO way shape or form APBT.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Robert Jordan said:


> He is 100% APBT. What I mean by cross is his pedigree is mainly Razors Edge crossed with Winegarner's line.
> 
> At 3 mos he weighed in at 25.14 lbs and at 4 mos he weighed in at 35.6 lbs.
> 
> If it helps at all his Great Great Grandparents on the Sire's side are Razors Edge "Sea Breeze" & Razors Edge "Purple Rose of Cairo" both are Grand Champion animals, his Great Grandmother is Razors Edge "Rayna" and his Great Grandfather is Winegarner's "Blue Devil".


OHHH lol my bad I thought you meant x breed. he looks big , but yes as people have said best bet is to take his weight at 4 months and double for a guesstimate.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> Well you came to the right place!! You do not have an APBT sorry to tell you that. You have an American Bully. The dogs you listed are American Bullies not APBT's and just based on size alone I could have told you he was not an APBT. Full grown APBT's max out at about 75lbs but most are about 40-60lbs. Just looking at your male he is very much an American Bully not an APBT regardless of what your paperwork says. There is a lot of info on this site to help you understand what an American Bully is vs an APBT and we will help you understand and answer any questions you have. Check out the Bully 101 section


I wouldn't consider 75lbs APBT, sure there may be some out there but the vast majority that weigh that much i consider American Bullies.

30 - 50lbs to me is ideal however i have seen very few well bred APBT's weigh in at 60-65 but not many. Most are either Bullies or have Bully lines some where mixed in.

EDIT: I also might add 4 cups is a lot of food for 60lbs, have you thought about switching to a different kibble to take down consumption? 4 cups is what i feed my bandogge and right now hes at 85lbs, my APBT cross weighs 45lbs and gets 2 to 2 1/2 cups and these amounts are based on conditioning/heavy exercise numerous times a day. A 60lbs dog while all dogs vary i couldn't see eating any more than 2 1/2 to potentially 3 cups if he is being worked, which as ive stated before given his age around 2 1/2 cups should be more than enough for a pup still growing.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

My boy is razords edge x gotti and other stuff he weighs 80 pounds and gets two cups of taste of the wild twice a day. Your pup will probably get to 80 pounds when he is fully mature granted that you keep him lean.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I say 75lbs because I have had them that big before and I know a few that are that big but at chain weight. That is the upper end of the scale for sure, I know a ton that are 60lbs at chain weight so I would not call that abnormal. We also have a few members with 70-75lbs dogs that are well bred just bigger dogs. They can be well balanced and fit the ABPT standard just be on the bigger side. Not saying that is the norm but at the upper end of the scale.


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## CaLi 2 B.C. (Dec 4, 2010)

According to my vet records my boy loki was 46.4 pounds at around 4 months and a week.He is fully matured at a lean 93 pounds.He is easily 20 pounds bigger than his mom and 10 more than dad.You really never exactly how big they can get.Alot of folks say a rough guess is to double the weight of 4 months.at least with my dog it was true.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> I say 75lbs because I have had them that big before and I know a few that are that big but at chain weight. That is the upper end of the scale for sure, I know a ton that are 60lbs at chain weight so I would not call that abnormal. We also have a few members with 70-75lbs dogs that are well bred just bigger dogs. They can be well balanced and fit the ABPT standard just be on the bigger side. Not saying that is the norm but at the upper end of the scale.


Of course it can happen but i rarely does a proper APBT weigh that much which is why i dont really consider it, of course thats just my view on it. People should first learn the "norm" and the true breed/history/etc before they start getting into things like the "abnormal". 75lbs crosses too much into the American Bully territory that generally, as a rule, doesn't happen for this breed. Can it? Sure just as ive seen APBT's that were 25lbs conditioned and just over 30lbs chain weight but from my experiences its not enough dogs out there like that to consider grouping it with a standard.

Again, just expressing how i feel not trying to argue with you.


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## Robert Jordan (May 10, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> No way of telling, especially if you dont know what hes mixed with. I will say since no one else has, 6 months is extremely young for spring pole. A little bit off and on may be okay however if your doing it frequently it could pose health problems later on down the line.
> 
> Ive never worked a dog with that kind of stuff until at very least 10 months i slowly introduce it. You never want to over work your pup with hard exercise/conditioning as its proven more likely than not to cause health problems such as sever joint pain later in life.
> 
> ...


Well with his springpole he only uses it when he wants to and that isn't very often. Also it is not very high meaning he can keep all four on the ground while he tugs it. I've already researched a Loy on the springpole and know all about them.


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## Robert Jordan (May 10, 2011)

Well where do I start lol.

The reason I mentioned he is APBT is due to the results of his DNA profile by the ADBA.

Regarding his food: Evanger's is one of the best dry foods on the market and that is also agreed upon by AFCO. It has low amounts of Calcium and a decent amount of protein which is recommended for large breed dogs. 4 cups a day is adequate. He exercises a lot. I mean he runs and I mean runs around our property a good 6 hours a day or as he sees fit. When he is tired he breaks, gets a drink and relaxes in the shade. So I think 4 cups is fine. He is by no means overweight or fat at all and still has excess skin which he hasn't grown into yet. He is lean as you can tell by his waist. Here is another pic of him.


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## Robert Jordan (May 10, 2011)

Also in regards to height...he is currently at 22.5" at the shoulder when standing pretty on all fours. Any estimate to what his mature height may be?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

The DNA isnt really acurate for telling what breed he is { thus the reason people cant just get there unregistered dogs DNA'd and get them registered that way} the breed is determined by the blood line and the bloodline you mentioned is american bully. It is confusing because alot of bullys are registered through the ADBA and UKC as APBT's but they really arent and usually dont even conform to the standards those registries have set up for the breed. A great place to check about the american bully is the ABKC website { just google it} and the bully 101 section here.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Robert Jordan said:


> Also in regards to height...he is currently at 22.5" at the shoulder when standing pretty on all fours. Any estimate to what his mature height may be?


usually the 1st year is growing upwards and the next year -2 years is filling out. he looks a little high in the rear right now so will most likely be growing upwards still , hard to tell what the end result will be though , great estimate would be again looking at the parents.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

That's a very tall dog, you are going to have a 25 inch dog by the time he is done most likely. The running 6 hours a day is not constant so i wouldnt consider that a true workout estimate. If you jog a dog for 45 minutes straight that is a lot more work than letting your dog out in the yard for 2 hours to let it roam.

As long as you can feel the rib on the side and you can see a tuck you should be good.


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## Robert Jordan (May 10, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> The DNA isnt really acurate for telling what breed he is { thus the reason people cant just get there unregistered dogs DNA'd and get them registered that way} the breed is determined by the blood line and the bloodline you mentioned is american bully. It is confusing because alot of bullys are registered through the ADBA and UKC as APBT's but they really arent and usually dont even conform to the standards those registries have set up for the breed. A great place to check about the american bully is the ABKC website { just google it} and the bully 101 section here.


I'm not disagreeing with you just simply stating what I was told by them. He is registered by ADBA, UKC and ABKC. I honestly don't care what breed he is. He is a great family pet and a lot of fun. I will also say that I turned down the vets recommendation of docking both his ears and tail because I don't like the look and definitely don't want to give people in public the wrong impression about him as most uneducated people would think he is used for fighting because of that look which I know has nothing to do with whether he fights or not. It's just personal taste or for show as educated people know.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Evanger is good food but i don't see anything that really stands out. However if your happy with your food and your dog is doing well, no sense in changing. 4 cups is alot of food no matter how you cut it though for the weight.

Bottom line is no one is going to be able to tell you exactly how tall or big he will be, why does it matter? Are you planning on showing him? Just love him for what he is, accept the fact hes not APBT but American Bully.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Robert Jordan said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you just simply stating what I was told by them. He is registered by ADBA, UKC and ABKC. I honestly don't care what breed he is. He is a great family pet and a lot of fun. I will also say that I turned down the vets recommendation of docking both his ears and tail because I don't like the look and definitely don't want to give people in public the wrong impression about him as most uneducated people would think he is used for fighting because of that look which I know has nothing to do with whether he fights or not. It's just personal taste or for show as educated people know.


Anything can be registered so long as you have the $$$, as a general rule, thats all they really care about is getting their money.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

ya alot of people get confused as to what there dogs breed is because of the registery and being called a apbt on them , the fact that he is ABKC registered tells you right away its an american bully. Glad you love your dog regardless { the bully is my prefrence also  } thats really the only thing that matters , its just sad though when we see people come on here every week announcing they just got a new APBT puppy and having to educate them that no infact they dont , wish breeders could start being more honest and educated as to what they are breeding, but I wouldnt hold my breathe on that lol. As far as the ear cropping thats a personal prefrence alot of us do crop and like the cropped look but to each there own { I havent ever been accused of fighting a dog based on what my dogs ears look like } the tail docking isnt something that this breed is meant to have unless there is a medical reason for it happy tail ect , but the standard clearly states what the tail is to look like, so glad you didnt dock  Are you looking to do anything with him ? weight pulling, showing, ect or is he for pet purpose? I love this breed for family pets they have amazing temperments and drive to please, I dont trust any breed with my kids the way I trust this one { although no dog should be left with young kids unsupervised } really handsome boy you have I love the white tip on his tail lol.


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## Robert Jordan (May 10, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> Evanger is good food but i don't see anything that really stands out. However if your happy with your food and your dog is doing well, no sense in changing. 4 cups is alot of food no matter how you cut it though for the weight.
> 
> Bottom line is no one is going to be able to tell you exactly how tall or big he will be, why does it matter? Are you planning on showing him? Just love him for what he is, accept the fact hes not APBT but American Bully.


Well according to many others 4 cups isn't TOO MUCH food as you keep saying. His ribs are very detectable and he has plenty of tuck so I'm not worried about it. If you must know and if it helps you he craps four times a day on average.

Second, why does it matter? Because I'm curious as it's normal human nature, end of story. As I said in a previous post I really don't care what breed or whatever he is a great family pet and a lot of fun and I do love him for what and who he is...other than the rebellious teenager mentality he has at the moment with choosing whether or not he wants to listen to the commands and perform them lol.


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## Robert Jordan (May 10, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> ya alot of people get confused as to what there dogs breed is because of the registery and being called a apbt on them , the fact that he is ABKC registered tells you right away its an american bully. Glad you love your dog regardless { the bully is my prefrence also  } thats really the only thing that matters , its just sad though when we see people come on here every week announcing they just got a new APBT puppy and having to educate them that no infact they dont , wish breeders could start being more honest and educated as to what they are breeding, but I wouldnt hold my breathe on that lol. As far as the ear cropping thats a personal prefrence alot of us do crop and like the cropped look but to each there own { I havent ever been accused of fighting a dog based on what my dogs ears look like } the tail docking isnt something that this breed is meant to have unless there is a medical reason for it happy tail ect , but the standard clearly states what the tail is to look like, so glad you didnt dock  Are you looking to do anything with him ? weight pulling, showing, ect or is he for pet purpose? I love this breed for family pets they have amazing temperments and drive to please, I dont trust any breed with my kids the way I trust this one { although no dog should be left with young kids unsupervised } really handsome boy you have I love the white tip on his tail lol.


Being that I am located in Northern CA and most of the people that live around here are from the Bay Area and are terrified of these dogs and will do anything and say anything to get them banned, killed and illegalized so I didn't want to take the chance of any of these uneducated dipsticks saying anything. He does have the breed standard Fire Hydrant Handle tail which I like and his white tip is just cool. I did get his Show and Pull card so I may do that. Otherwise he is my hiking/camping/fishing/wheeling buddy and family pet. He loves "his" Jeep haha. Thank you for the kind words...we all agree that when we saw this picture below he was the right one and going to be very handsome lol.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Robert Jordan said:


> Well according to many others 4 cups isn't TOO MUCH food as you keep saying. His ribs are very detectable and he has plenty of tuck so I'm not worried about it. If you must know and if it helps you he craps four times a day on average.
> 
> Second, why does it matter? Because I'm curious as it's normal human nature, end of story. As I said in a previous post I really don't care what breed or whatever he is a great family pet and a lot of fun and I do love him for what and who he is...other than the rebellious teenager mentality he has at the moment with choosing whether or not he wants to listen to the commands and perform them lol.


Theres no need to get aggravated, as i've stated how much i feed mine and they only go twice a day about an hour or so after feeding. As ive said, if your happy and your dog is healthy good for you. As i have also already mentioned, all dogs are different however 4 cups is a lot of food for the weight of your dog. Theres no need to get defensive.

I shall leave it at that.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

aww that pic is adorable , very cute ... for some reason im all puppy'd out though lol { just had a litter of 10 ,2 months ago lol }


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Your dog is very beautiful  I know what you mean about the ignorant people. I'm in Norther CA also and we get quite a  It not as bad here as in the Bay but ignorance spreads quick and we seem to find people like that every where.


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> According to my vet records my boy loki was 46.4 pounds at around 4 months and a week.He is fully matured at a lean 93 pounds.He is easily 20 pounds bigger than his mom and 10 more than dad.You really never exactly how big they can get.Alot of folks say a rough guess is to double the weight of 4 months.at least with my dog it was true.


Personally I agree with this . Izzos mom was 50 pounds her dad was 80 and a hippo lol. She is only 11 months and close to 65 with no fat to see on her ..


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Just to clear up the DNA thing......
your dog was DNA profiled meaning they tested the parents DNA and your pups and proved your pup belonged to those parents. It has nothing to do with the breed of dog, there is no test that proves 100% what breed a dogs is by DNA, they have tests that are out there but they are not 100% just yet and they do not have DNA markers for APBT's yet.

Now based on your dogs bloodlines he is an American Bully and now you know what to call him when people ask. Please do not call him a pit bull or an APBT as he is not and causes more confusion among the uneducated masses.

As far as feeding I think your dog looks just fine on the amount of food you feed. You cannot go by an amount you need to look at a dog and adjust what your feed. i think your boy looks good I just would not let him get any heavier. I have 45lbs dogs that I feed 2 cups a day and some eat 4.5 cups a day. I have some that do just fine on 2 cups and look great but others need 4 cups or they are skin and bones. Dogs also change as they mature and depending on the time of year will not more or less food so you just adjust according to how they look.

If your boy looks fine on 4 cups of food then feed 4 cups, sounds like you have a decent food so stay with it unless you need to adjust.


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