# Need help with extreme itchiness



## doggiebiscuit (Sep 15, 2012)

My dog is itchy all the time. He scratches his belly/chest area with his hind legs constantly and tries to rub his face on any furniture he can find. It's so bad that when I take him for walks, he rolls around in the grass, rubbing his face constantly.

When we give him hugs or play with him, anywhere he touches us, red spots start to form on our skin. These red spots are extremely itchy but they go away after a while by themselves.

We have been to the vet multiple times and yet they are not helping at all. They've done skin scrapings, "tape" tests and given us multiple medications and shampoos that have not helped the problem at all.

The skin scrapings have all come up negative. Prior to our visit to the vet, I had done some research myself. I thought it might have been sarcoptic mange that's causing all this. However, the skin scraping revealed nothing and our vet gave us some pills + the Advantage Multi (which is supposed to deal with sarcoptic mange - off label). So far we've applied the Advantage Multi twice and have seen no results.

Our vet has also given us two kinds of shampoos to treat flaky skin and antifungal/antibacteria shampoos but those are not helping either. I am at my wits end on what to do next.

Whenever I try to ask my vet, they tell me it might be that my dog is allergic to something or another. However, I've repeatedly told them about the itchiness that he gives us when we hug them and about the red spots appearing on our skin. Our vet says it might be that we are allergic to the dog. I doubt this is the case since these red spots appear on EVERYONE in the family and I strongly do not think that all of us are allergic.

I think it MAY be sarcoptic mange but my dog has had this for a few years at the very least. Does sarcoptic mange live that long on dogs. I have seen pictures of extreme cases of sarcoptic mange and my dog still has majority of his fur. But he has lost some hair around his eyes, on his snout, his chest and his groin area. He bites between his paws so I believe he is itchy there too. He is so itchy that he bites himself and has hurt himself that we have had to put on the Elizabethan collar on him.

What could be causing this. Does anyone have any ideas
What should I be doing for him
My vet doesn't seem to be able to do anything for us. She has recommended that we give a dose of the Advantage Multi half a month earlier but another month has passed and nothing has come of it.

I would be so grateful for any advice or help. I just want my dog to be comfortable and not spend his entire day itching and scratching at himself.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I have dealt with sarcoptic mange after a rescue dog infected my kennel and know it all too well!! However there are a lot of things on your story to consider so let me start off with..... Some dogs do make people itchy! I have a a few dogs that make me itch like that and there is nothing wrong with the dog just that the oil in the coat and that dogs make up makes me itch!! If it was sarcoptic mange it is contagious to people and you won't get an immediate red spot but if you get the mite you would itch like no tomorrow..... Yeah I got the mites from the rescue along with my husband and most of our 22 dogs..... SUCKED! anyway I have known cases where the dog was totally infected and the owners never got so that is not a good indicator. 

Skin scraping is not always a cut and dry answer for sarcoptic mange. MAny times is it misdiagnosed because most of the time you cannot find them on a basic skin scraping. Skin biopsy is a better way to check for sarcoptic mange but its' easier to go by the saying, if it looks like mange treat it! The fact your vet did several skin scrapings for sarcoptic mange says to me that your vet is not very experienced with it. Not surprising at all! Many vets don't know how to treat or test for it.......

It could very well be an allergy and that's the easiest place to start for now.

So, here are a few questions

What food are you feeding and any supplements?

I'll also post an article on sarcoptic mange that is GREAT about learning what they are all about.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Sarcoptic mange, commonly known as canine scabies is caused by the external parasite Sarcoptes scabiei. These microscopic mites can invade the skin of healthy dogs or puppies and create a variety of skin problems, the most common of which is hair loss and severe itching. While they will infect all types of animals and even humans, they are a particular nuisance for dogs. Sarcoptic mange mites are extremely easy for any dog to catch, but also, they are very easy to get rid off. In this article, I will provide a very effective and inexpensive way to treat and rid your dog of this pesky parasite.

Sarcoptic mange can infect all ages and breeds of dogs. This particular mite infects all types of farm animals, cats, dogs, foxes, coyotes, and all other types of warm-blooded, fur bearing mammals and even infects humans. Their are several species of sarcoptic mites and each species of mite prefers one specific kind of host (e.g.; dog), but will also infect all other species within the animal kingdom. Since all of these species of mites have a similar life cycle and respond to the same treatment, I will assume that the vast majority of dog infections are caused by the mite Sarcoptes scabiei and I will explain how to treat accordingly.

The mites usually spend their entire life on a dog. The female mite burrows into the skin and lays eggs several times as she continues burrowing. These tunnels can actually reach the length of several centimeters. After she deposits the eggs, the female mite dies. In 3-8 days, the eggs hatch into larvae which have 6 legs. The larvae mature into nymphs which have 8 legs. The nymph then molts into an adult while it is still in the burrow. The adults mate, and the process continues. The entire life cycle requires 2-3 weeks.
The mites prefer to live on the dog, but will live for several days off of the host in the environment; thus, sarcoptic mange mites are an environmental problem and not a genetic problem like with demodectic mange mites (aka red mange). In cool moist environments, sarcoptic mites can live for up to 22 days in the environment and not on a host. At normal room temperature in a home, they will live from 2 to 6 days. Because of the mite's ability to survive off the host, dogs can become infected without ever coming into direct contact with another infected dog.

The symptoms are varied but usually include hair loss and severe itching on the top of the head, elbows, ears, armpits, hocks, chest, and ventral abdomen (belly). The mites prefer to live on areas of the skin that have less hair. As the infection worsens it can spread over the entire body. Small red pustules often develop along with yellow crust on the skin. Because of the severe itching and resultant scratching from the dog, the skin soon becomes traumatized and a variety of sores and infections can develop as a result. The itching seems to be much worse in warm conditions such as indoors or near a stove or heat vent. If the infection goes on untreated or is mistakenly treated as an allergy (#1 misdiagnosis by Vets), the skin may darken due to the constant irritation, and the surrounding lymph nodes may become enlarged.

Sarcoptic mange is an extremely common infection and many cases have often been misdiagnosed as severe allergy to a certain type of dog food or environmental plants. In many parts of the US and Canada including all of North and South America, there are more dogs with sarcoptic mange than their are with ticks, fleas, lice, or even ear mites. For these reasons, any time I see a dog with severe itching, and no fleas or ticks are seen on the dog's skin, I have to automatically suspect sarcoptic mange as the culprit.
The intense itching caused by the sarcoptic mite is actually thought to be caused from a severe allergic reaction to the mite. When dogs are initially infected with Sarcoptes they do not develop itching for several weeks. If the animals are treated and then reinfected at a later time, severe itching starts almost immediately, which indicates the itching may be due to an allergic reaction. However, the standard treatments for allergies generally will not decrease the symptoms of scabies, and will do nothing to cure the disease. This is again the exact reason to always assume scabies and treat accordingly.

Trying to get a diagnosis for scabies can be very frustrating to say the least. The standard method that a Vet will use is to perform a skin scraping and then identify the organism under the microscope. Unfortunately, on average, only twenty (20%) percent of the infected dogs will show Sarcoptes mites on any given scraping. Therefore, if a dog has a positive skin scraping the diagnosis is confirmed, but a negative scraping does not rule out sarcoptic mange. Therefore, most diagnoses are made based on history and response to treatment for scabies. Also, many Vets are now charging as much as $50 or more to perform a skin scraping. Therefore, it is easier and less expensive to simply be proactive and treat for sarcoptic mites rather than to pay for an office visit, skin scraping, and prescription Vet treatments.
Sarcoptes Life Cycle in a Dog There are several ways to treat scabies, and in this and the next paragraph, I will tell you how Vets treat the problem; then I will tell you how I treat the problem much more effectively and inexpensively. When I was a kid growing up on a farm in Illinois, the best treatment for all types of external parasites in all types of animals was Dursban (Chlorpyrifos), but the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has since banned this effective and inexpensive product. After the banning of Dursban, the next most effective treatment had been to clip the dog if it had long hair, bathe it with a benzoyl peroxide shampoo to cleanse the skin, and then apply an organophosphate dip (Paramite). Amitraz dips and Mitaban (also organophosphates), and lime sulfur dips (Lymdip) have also been used effectively. The animals are usually dipped once every two weeks for two to three times. While effective, these dips are very messy to apply and unpleasant for both the owner and the dog. Because the dip must come in contact with the mites and many mites live on the face and ears of dogs, great care must be exercised when applying these dips to these sensitive areas. The dips can be toxic to humans and are not suitable for very young, old, or debilitated animals. In addition, there are some reported cases of resistance to these dips in some cases of mange.

Fortunately, there are several other products that have been extremely effective, safe, and convenient in treating sarcoptic mange. Selamectin (Revolution) is a newer product, which is a topical solution that is applied once a month and provides heartworm prevention, flea control, some tick protection and protection against Sarcoptic mange. Liquid ivermectin is another alternative that is sometimes used. It is used at much higher concentrations that are found in heartworm preventives (e.g., Heartgard). Ivermectin should not be used in Collies or Shetland sheep dogs and should be used with caution in the herding breeds. In dogs that are sensitive to ivermectin, some veterinarians have been having success using milbemycin oxime (Interceptor) at an off-label dose. In addition to treating the dog, the environment can be treated with a residual insecticide (e.g.; permethrin).
The cost to effectively keep sarcoptic mange mite infestations out of your Beagles may be entirely too much if you take your dog(s) to a Veterinarian. As already stated, a Vet will charge you for an office visit plus the cost of skin scrapings, and prescription Amitraz solutions like Paramite and Mitaban. The cost for the Veterinarian treatments along with the cost of the office visits will add up to a lot of money per year, especially if you have more than one Beagle. Once again, I want to remind everyone that I am not a Veterinarian, but rather a long time Beagle kennel owner. I'll tell you what I use and do, you can use your own judgment whether you want to follow in my footsteps. This article is presented only as a documentation of how I treat sarcoptic mange mite (scabies) infestations in the Beagles that I own at a fraction of the cost that a Veterinarian will charge you.
What I do is buy Prolate®/Lintox®-HD from Lambert Vet Supply without a prescription and for a lot less money. Prolate is an extremely effective, topical insecticide that works just as good or even better than prescription Amitraz products such as Paramite® (topical) and Mitaban® (oral). Prolate is bottled and labeled for use as a topical insecticide for livestock use such as cows, pigs, horses, etc. I buy the one-gallon size jug of the Prolate solution for $50.95 (accurate price as of 04/27/2008) per gallon. Simply click on the picture to the left of this paragraph and order a gallon jug of Prolate today. (NOTE: Lambert Vet Supply is not a sponsor of BEAGLES UNLIMITED and we do not make a cent by referring them to you. They do have the absolute lowest prices available to help all of us keep our Beagles in great health while we save hundreds of dollars each and every year. Here is more information about Lambert Vet Supply .)
This one gallon jug of Prolate is enough topical insecticide to use off-label and treat a huge kennel full of Beagles for several months or even years. If you have more than one Beagle to treat with a topical insecticide for a sarcoptic mange mite outbreak, I highly recommend you follow in my footsteps and buy and use the one gallon size jug of this medication and then you can make a solution just like the expensive, prescription dips you get from the Vet.
All you have to do is mix 1 ounce (1 oz.) of Prolate per 1 gallon of water. You can then place the highly effective mix in a dipping barrel, a commercial sprayer, or even a small household spray bottle. You then simply dip or spray down your dogs being careful not to get it in the eyes or mouth of you or your dog. You can also use the spray as a kennel spray to eliminate all mites located in the kennels, dog runs, dog houses, or other sleeping areas. I directly put the Prolate on each and every dog/pup three (03) times per week for about two (02) weeks in a row. This assures that you kill any mites that are on the outer skin or hair of your dog(s). The mites that are buried under the skin will not be affected by the spray and that is why the multiple treatments, so that you kill all the mites as they come to the outer skin and hair.


This one gallon jug of prolate is enough topical insecticide to make 128 gallons of topical insecticide dip or spray with the exact same effectiveness as the Paramite or Mitaban that a Vet will prescribe at a tremendous cost savings. The Vets are currently prescribing Mitaban (oral medication) at the cost of $22.25 or more for a lousy 10.6 ml vial; often times, one oral treatment is not enough to work 100% effectively. If you only have 2 or 3 Beagles, you can buy the Prolate in a 1 quart (1 qt.) size for $18.31 (accurate price as of 04/27/2008) and that would make you 32 gallons of the mix. The Prolate dip/spray works wonders on sarcoptic mites, ear mites, lice, and even ticks. The mix will be a milky white color and it will smell like common household bug sprays such as Black Flag or Raid. Make sure you always stir dips and shake sprays to get a good mixture before each use. When dipping a dog, dip the entire body from the tail up to the base of the ears and then use a rag that is saturated in the solution to rub the face around eyes and mouth. If you are using a sprayer, make sure to saturate all hair loss areas and all healthy hair/skin for several inches around the hair loss areas and then spray regularly all over the rest of the body.
No matter how you treat your Beagle(s) for sarcoptic mange mites, the main thing is to do the treatment and follow ups correctly and in a timely manner. If done correctly and in a timely manner, you will definitely see the mange spots healing up with hair growing back into the hair loss areas. At this point you can discontinue the treatments and only start them again if you see another episode of mange developing. The Prolate dip/spray treatments are only designed to kill the mites and thus stop the hair loss and bacterial skin infections. The dog will look healthy and feel much better with no hair loss, skin infections, or itching. REMEMBER, sarcoptic mange mites are an environmental problem and these parasites are both very easy to catch from the environment or from any kind of warm-blooded, mammals, but they are also very easy to exterminate from your dog(s) and/or kennel.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/37005-how-treat-mange-home.html
HOw to treat mange to home see this thread above.


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## doggiebiscuit (Sep 15, 2012)

Whew, 22 dogs to treat. That must have been a lot of work!

I am feeding him the Pro Plan brand of dog food and no additional supplements. 

Could it be a problem with his fur. I'm a little uncertain if this is causing him to itch. It's true that many dogs might make their owners itch and I would feel that this was the case except because of the slight hair loss he is suffering from. But then again, I don't know what may be the cause of all this 

Thank you so much for the informative post on the manges and a way to treat. 

Do you think I should go ahead and try the Prolate even though I'm unsure whether he might have the mites or not? Because he has been itching for a long time (years), and I don't know if sarcoptic mange continue to live on the host that long or if untreated for a long time, they are supposed to make my dog lose all his fur (because he's only been losing some fur around his eyes, snout, belly/chest, hind legs etc)?

Right now i'm just at my wits end trying to help him relieve his itch.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

doggiebiscuit said:


> Whew, 22 dogs to treat. That must have been a lot of work!
> 
> I am feeding him the Pro Plan brand of dog food and no additional supplements.
> 
> ...


Have you had allergy tests done by the vet? Is it all the time or does his itchiness coincide with Seasonal allergies? Pro plan isn't the best kind of kibbles, are you able to put him on a grain free food? Blue Buffalo Wilderness is good, some people have also said Taste of the Wild, but I would try a grain free food (make the switch very gradual, don't change it all at one). Also adding some fish oil, that helps with skin itchiness. Figuring out what the problem could be is a long process, the food change will not be evident over night. I would eliminate Grains and Chicken and see if it helps.

Have you had your pup on Benadryl at all to see if it helps him? Some pups might need it all the time, but I used benadryl to get my boy feeling good and then stopped the benadryl and concentrated on finding a good quality kibble that helped instead of the pills.

In PK's post above it mentioned Revolution, a heartworm/flea monthly treatment. I can vouch that my boy appeared to have some mange, but scrapings never came back with anything, I put him on https://www.revolution4dogs.com/default.aspx and its been awesome for him as well as the food change for the most part.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

doggiebiscuit said:


> Whew, 22 dogs to treat. That must have been a lot of work!
> 
> I am feeding him the Pro Plan brand of dog food and no additional supplements.
> 
> ...


The prolate and and mange treatment is cheap enough if it was my dog I would try it. I have seen dogs suffer a long time and it go undiagnosed. I would also change to a grain free food. Do you have a costco card? If so costco has a great grain free food that is about $30-34 for 35lbs. I have a dog who had sarcoptic mange then several months later I thought she had it again but it was grain allergy. She has been on the costco brand of grain free (turkey or salmon) since and has done well.

If you want to be sure what it is this is what I would do if it was my dog...

Treat for mange for 4-6 weeks and don't change anything else. If it cures the dog you know what it was. Also during this time keep washing all bedding!

If your dog is still itchy then

I would change the food to all grain free. That means treats too! Sometimes things you don't think have grain in them so the only treat you can give is kibble (the grain free). Now costco also has new grain free treats or any grain free treat but that's it. If you don't have a costco card then go to the pet store and look at other grain free foods. although if you have a costco in your area it would be worth it get a membership for 35 a year, you will save that in just buying dog food alone. Most other grain free foods are very expensive in comparison. I have over 17 dogs all the time so I know where the good deals are! lol

If you change too many things at once you may not know what cured it so trying one thing at a time will give you a good idea. I know its' tempting to try everything at once but patience will give you a clear answer.

The hair loss pattern you describe can be mange to let you, those areas are where they lose hair.

One other thing you can try right away is make sure it's not a thyroid issue. Hair Loss can happen with thyroid and the itchiness may be from dry skin..... just a thought! Thyroid tests are cheap enough to do, and if the vet goes...... well I don't think that is the problem..... "Think" is not enough for me it's cheap to test for why not make sure! I have seen thyroids do some funky stuff to dogs!!

Anyway that's my advice


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

so the ivermectin you lined in the other thread is given orally? the link says its injected


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## doggiebiscuit (Sep 15, 2012)

The vet didn't perform any tests for allergies. They've just been giving us various pills for bacteria etc. His itchiness is all the time unfortunately. I will definitely be on the look out for better food for him and will try the brands that you've mentioned. Im going to hit up Costco as well and see what they have.

I will also find out whether it's a thyroid issue or not.

First off, I think I'll start with the Prolate and see if there's any change. If he gets better, awesome. I'll change the food after that.

Do you by any chance know if they ship the Prolate to Canada? I dont seem to see the option to ship to Canada. Ill keep looking and contact them too


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

zohawn said:


> so the ivermectin you lined in the other thread is given orally? the link says its injected


It's given orally, you can inject it but it burns real bad and for injections that many times a week you run the risk of giving your dog an infection at the injection site.



doggiebiscuit said:


> The vet didn't perform any tests for allergies. They've just been giving us various pills for bacteria etc. His itchiness is all the time unfortunately. I will definitely be on the look out for better food for him and will try the brands that you've mentioned. Im going to hit up Costco as well and see what they have.
> 
> I will also find out whether it's a thyroid issue or not.
> 
> ...


Not too sure about Canada but lots of places carry prolate so you can check around. Also treat with ivermectin so you get it inside and out.

I wouldn't worry about allergy tests just yet, they are expensive and if everything else fails then you start looking in other places. I like to keep things simple and try one thing at a time with an educated guess. When I run out of options then I will do tests with the vet. For stuff like this anyway, i go to the vet enough with other issues with other dogs, lol. I pretty much already pay his receptionists salary! LMAO


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

i had to order the 2 linked things you posted, none of them were local. 

off to get some benedryl


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## doggiebiscuit (Sep 15, 2012)

I gave Lambert a call bright and early this morning and they told me that they dont ship the Prolate out of the US. Does anyone know what kind of stores (in Canada) might carry this item? Ive been doing web searches and so far all the places I've found that sell Prolate are US-based. Any help would be great


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I've done it for some members and I can do it for you, you can order and send it here and I'll ship it to you. I did that with some meds that they couldn't get shipped to the California. If you need help let me know.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

its for cattle and i assume you guys have farm stores. might try there


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## doggiebiscuit (Sep 15, 2012)

performanceknls said:


> I've done it for some members and I can do it for you, you can order and send it here and I'll ship it to you. I did that with some meds that they couldn't get shipped to the California. If you need help let me know.


That would be great! I would be so grateful and willing to reimburse you in any way for your trouble.

Like zohawn's suggestion, Im going to check out some farming stores in Canada first to see if they have Prolate. If they don't, I'll have to trouble you :angel:


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

doggiebiscuit said:


> That would be great! I would be so grateful and willing to reimburse you in any way for your trouble.
> 
> Like zohawn's suggestion, Im going to check out some farming stores in Canada first to see if they have Prolate. If they don't, I'll have to trouble you :angel:


I'm leaving to NY from Sept 26 till Oct 1st so if you can't find it by then I would like to get ordered by then and when I get back it should be here. Another option is I do have a bottle of Prolate I'm not using that I could send now before I leave and have you just ship me a replacement if you want it faster. I have not use much at all and it's way more than you'll need. I'm a business owner and really busy so if you need me to help don't post it here, instead email me at [email protected] thanks!


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

is the prolate safe for around the house?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

WHat do you mean around the house?


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

like spraying on carpet etc


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

and did i do the right math, half an ml of invermectin? for a 50lb dog


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Zohawn are you having the same issue? no not on carpet that stuff STINKS!


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

yeah, i am


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

There is a great link I posted in this thread that will take you to the beagle websit with lots of info. check it out.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

half an ml of invermectin for a 50lb dog?


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