# I need A lil Help from the community dogs seized



## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

I havent been on here much posting pictures ,because on the 27th of May wed, My local Animal Control went to the house and took some dogs, they charging animal cruelty... 3 dogs were in crates and two were tethered,
they say they had no access to water,but for a fact my dogs get enough water and feed everyday,plus more than enough excersize...I run them on their mills and do a lil weightpull training along w/ some conformnation stuff.
Among the dogs they took was a pregnant female they cut her open at 56 days and flat out lied bout getting the okay from the owner,not to mention that they still charged 2000 plus the fees...so basically 3000 to get them dogs out ,the girl lost her pups after she was released,...

so they still held on to 3 of my dogs and dont want to release them until the d.a says to let them go, in the meantime I call them to ask if they were going to make an issue if my wife would take care of that dog and a few others that needed to be having special attention among those my brothers girl who lives dirictly accross the street from my house, she had surgery recently and needed to be cared for the way my wife does it,minimal movement and such.
so last wednesday I get a call from my mom at work ,shes hysterical that a raid was done w/ forceable entry requested by Scott Evans at O.C Animal care, they went in and seized 4 dogs and computer,my canon camara, paperwork, and pedigrees... they took the crates and left. I have court on the 26th of June and want my dogs back to where they need to be....
If any of you want to help out in any way I will really appreciate it and I dont really know what else to do ,but to try and hire a real attorney...
http://1503bulls.webs.com/donationfordogstaken.htm
a paypal link is set up here... Thanks
Henry


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

That's crazy. Were the dogs in crates inside? Wow.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I am soo sorry man... This is such BS. Now they are on to raiding Bully yards..


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

Thanks every one, im trying to get them back soon...


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

This is nuts... I can't afford to pitch in at the moment, but once I wrap some things up around the house I'll shoot some moolah your way if it's still needed. Keep us posted.


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

Thank you, I know how it is, there is so much drama with this, its exhausting, i wanna get back to what i love to do, all i do is work w/ my dogs and go to shows,,,,
Hopefully i get some good news soon, O.C Animal Care in ca are doing some bad things to make themselves feel like they are right, a raid was pulled off they took phone,computer, peds, dogs, crates anything you can think of, and at the end of the day the dogs still speak louder cause they are all in great shape and no where near abused as they first claimed...


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

If you win your case, which sounds pretty weak, Demand your dogs back, and don't pay any kennel fee's, Its unlawful for you to have to pay if you win! don't let them bully you! there's things you can do that most people aren't aware of, most people get intimidated by AC especially if the bring cops with them, Also if you win your case, Hire a lawyer and sue AC for doing that to your pregnant female, they have no right! your dogs are still your property even if there at the AC shelter, until a judge says other wise! if you lose you can still file an appeal! Now when you go to court If AC don't got no witnesses or the original complainants DENY DENY DENY, They got no case and must drop it! Then you demand your dogs back!
I know alot about the kind of procedings that happen with AC I've been there and back numerous times with them, I've won most all my cases with them do to them being incompetent not bringing witnesses and just having weak cases, I've taken them as far as a person can go legally and illegally (I took my dog back from AC and did a year and a half on a five year sentence for it) Ac just leaves me alone now! They know I'm not gonna give in without a major fight ! And thats how ya gotta be with them don't ever even give them an inch they'll take a mile! Its all about $ and there's definantly a witch hunt going on!


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

pimpidypimp said:


> If you win your case, which sounds pretty weak, Demand your dogs back, and don't pay any kennel fee's, Its unlawful for you to have to pay if you win! don't let them bully you! there's things you can do that most people aren't aware of, most people get intimidated by AC especially if the bring cops with them, Also if you win your case, Hire a lawyer and sue AC for doing that to your pregnant female, they have no right! your dogs are still your property even if there at the AC shelter, until a judge says other wise! if you lose you can still file an appeal! Now when you go to court If AC don't got no witnesses or the original complainants DENY DENY DENY, They got no case and must drop it! Then you demand your dogs back!
> I know alot about the kind of procedings that happen with AC I've been there and back numerous times with them, I've won most all my cases with them do to them being incompetent not bringing witnesses and just having weak cases, I've taken them as far as a person can go legally and illegally (I took my dog back from AC and did a year and a half on a five year sentence for it) Ac just leaves me alone now! They know I'm not gonna give in without a major fight ! And thats how ya gotta be with them don't ever even give them an inch they'll take a mile! Its all about $ and there's definantly a witch hunt going on!


tHANK YOU, i FEEL AND KNOW FOR A FACT THAT There is no abuse going on..yes they went w/ the cops to assist them and did all that, so I will try my best to fight it all the way, thanks a lot..


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## kstr0h (May 10, 2009)

wow fuck animal control. they think they can do what they want, when they want.


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

i NEED TO NKNOW WHAT i CAN DO TO FIGHT THIS, OBIOUSLY THEY WANT TO 
make me look bad, but I have photos ofv the dogs of almost everyday of their life, they came and took my camara, im not allowed to go to the pound and ask questions,or else id get arrested for trespassing , and the same guy who said that is the one that asked for forceable entry to my home, when every time they have gone all they had to do is knock and walk in... any one else delt w/ A.C


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

What ever you need? they're giving out $5000.00.... damn if I wasn't a dog fighter I could use this money but as you know.... I fight dogs so I can't get it, so you go for it girl


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

man this is what i have to say theres a reason behind everything so u must have been doin something wrong, im not tryin to acuse u of anything but they dont do that shit just to do it man, i know alot of breeders and as long as they have a license to breed cant no1 mess with them man....i can make up some story too and put a paypal account and try to take ppls money from the net....u just posted 20+ posts and try to b charity all of a sudden....im sorry mods im just expressing my feelings and n this smells fishy, if im wrong im sorry but sometin aint right


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

just watch ANIMAL COPS....


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

Well I know here in IN to have more then the limit allows you have to have at least a city breeders license and if you state requires you also have to be usda licensed which requires an annual inspection. CA has been cracking down on breeders and even owning our breed trying to enforce mandatory spay/neuter so you just happen to be in a really bad state to have pits. I know that's of no help to you but the best advice I can give is to contact an attorney and let them legally represent you. 

I also know that here (my city and state) you have to have water and food out at all times if your dogs are housed outdoors. We also have to have at least one outdoor kennel even if your dogs are housed indoors. I went through all sorts of bs with ac two years ago but sense finding out what all is required and taking care to make sure I followed all the rules I've not had a single issue. I wish you nothing but the best and will keep you and your canine family in our prayers.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Atheist and RE, the AC is not always on our side as dog owners. Atheist you say crating dogs is cruel? then my 14 dogs are being abused. I have them crated while I am gone and at night. They go out in the dog runs during the day. So because they are confined and not running lose in my house does that make be a bad owner? No it does not! What is the difference if they are on chain set ups or in dog runs? Most chain set up allow for more room than a dog run but they are both great ways to contain APBT's. You talk about giving each dog enough time, I work most of the dogs during the week but not everyday and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people DO teather and crate the correct way so to lump him in with bad owners is not cool.
I do agree with the water thing but if they are in crates inside no water is needed, out side in the heat I think they need water. But unless the dogs were in distress all they needed to do was leave a notice to comply instead of taking the dogs.

RE people are wrongly accused of dog fighting and neglect all the time, the AC is just looking for publicity. Look at some of the older threads and watch the 20/20 video of what the ASPCA is doing when they raid "puppy mills" or "breeders". In many cases they had no reason to take the dogs.

I had a bitch get out after havening a little of pups and end up at the humane center. When I took her back they sent AC to my house because I was a puppy mill. LMAO I bred that bitch one time and now I am a puppy mill? they have no clue what they are talking about! When AC came they know me very well and laughed at the accusation.

Good luck brother! stay strong and let us know how it turns out.


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Atheist and RE, the AC is not always on our side as dog owners. Atheist you say crating dogs is cruel? then my 14 dogs are being abused. I have them crated while I am gone and at night. They go out in the dog runs during the day. So because they are confined and not running lose in my house does that make be a bad owner? No it does not! What is the difference if they are on chain set ups or in dog runs? Most chain set up allow for more room than a dog run but they are both great ways to contain APBT's. You talk about giving each dog enough time, I work most of the dogs during the week but not everyday and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people DO teather and crate the correct way so to lump him in with bad owners is not cool.
> I do agree with the water thing but if they are in crates inside no water is needed, out side in the heat I think they need water. But unless the dogs were in distress all they needed to do was leave a notice to comply instead of taking the dogs.
> 
> RE people are wrongly accused of dog fighting and neglect all the time, the AC is just looking for publicity. Look at some of the older threads and watch the 20/20 video of what the ASPCA is doing when they raid "puppy mills" or "breeders". In many cases they had no reason to take the dogs.
> ...


Did you read my post? If so, please show me where I stated that I think crating a dog was cruel. I said I don't think living on chains or crates is an ideal situation for a dog. Why own more dogs than you can have living in an ideal situation. Why own 14 dogs if they have to be teathered, crated or kept in runs unless the dogs are some sort of business. The Octomom mentality is a joke. She says she loves her kids but is it even possible to properly care for 14 or whatever she has? Of course you cannot give each of your 14 dogs the attention, excercise, and love they need everyday unless you have a staff to help. Is it better than death, of course, it is better than some situations, yes but just because there is a worse fate for a dog doesn't justify treating dogs like items you collect for your own enjoyment. There are very good, loving and responsible owners who at times crate their dogs. I travel and on occasion need to kennel my dog, but when a dog spends the majority of its time in a crate, run or on a chain it is not a pet, it has become a commodity or a collectible.

Dogs are not hampsters or gold fish. They thrive on family or pack, they need constant social interaction and contact. They are not specimines for collection, and unless you are a running a responsible dog business or rescuing otherwise doomed dogs, owning 14 dogs is just a collection.

If someone is responsible and in the business of dogs then the appropriate agencies should be conducting inspections and those involved should be maintaining their facilities to a standard determined by law with all proper permits. I have owned pitbulls in the state of California and have never had one problem related to owning a pitbull as a pet. If you want to run a pitbull business then abide by the regulations. If you are a back yard breeder, fighter, collector or whatever then most likely you are contributing to the bad rap this breed has, rather than being part of the solution.


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

all im sayin is that not every breeder is a good breeder so i could b the 1 that is bad n i could sit here n ask 4 money....u cant trust wht ppl say all da time....im not tryin to b n ass but just cuz sum 1 owns a pit doesnt mean i have to b on their side, idk what they do at their homes for all i know dey could be mistreatin da animal...come on now let me post a thread claimin that da AC took my dogs n i need help..i seen this multiple times on other boards...JMO...dont think i dont feel bad IF HES TELLIN DA TRUTH....ppl like to scam..dats all im sayin


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## kstr0h (May 10, 2009)

razors_edge said:


> all im sayin is that not every breeder is a good breeder so i could b the 1 that is bad n i could sit here n ask 4 money....u cant trust wht ppl say all da time....im not tryin to b n ass but just cuz sum 1 owns a pit doesnt mean i have to b on their side, idk what they do at their homes for all i know dey could be mistreatin da animal...come on now let me post a thread claimin that da AC took my dogs n i need help..i seen this multiple times on other boards...JMO...dont think i dont feel bad IF HES TELLIN DA TRUTH....ppl like to scam..dats all im sayin


i gotta agree. it could easily be a scam.


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## BmoreTrue (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm with you 100% Atheist.


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## thaim (Feb 6, 2009)

WOW animal control is full of dumbasses


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

kstr0h said:


> i gotta agree. it could easily be a scam.


damn i thought i was goin to b in dis by myself..BULLS HENRY no disrespect man but im not helpin u


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

How come they took the computer and the camera? Did they say?


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## PitBullSwagga (Jun 1, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Atheist and RE, the AC is not always on our side as dog owners. Atheist you say crating dogs is cruel? then my 14 dogs are being abused. I have them crated while I am gone and at night. They go out in the dog runs during the day. So because they are confined and not running lose in my house does that make be a bad owner? No it does not! What is the difference if they are on chain set ups or in dog runs? Most chain set up allow for more room than a dog run but they are both great ways to contain APBT's. You talk about giving each dog enough time, I work most of the dogs during the week but not everyday and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people DO teather and crate the correct way so to lump him in with bad owners is not cool.
> I do agree with the water thing but if they are in crates inside no water is needed, out side in the heat I think they need water. But unless the dogs were in distress all they needed to do was leave a notice to comply instead of taking the dogs.
> 
> RE people are wrongly accused of dog fighting and neglect all the time, the AC is just looking for publicity. Look at some of the older threads and watch the 20/20 video of what the ASPCA is doing when they raid "puppy mills" or "breeders". In many cases they had no reason to take the dogs.
> ...


:goodpost: when my dad and i managed a boarding stable AC was useless...a guy who was basically a "backyard breeder" of race horses had a pregnant (nearly due) mare that couldn't stand up because she was confined to a 12x12 walled stall with no farrier attention- so her hooves grew so long they curled up like elf shoes- when we found her (laying on the ground with flys crawling in and out her ears, eyes, and nose-i thought she was dead) we called AC and you know what they did? NOTHING. they gave him some sort of warning and he had to call a vet out- which he didn't. he then decided to use an electric saw to "trim" her hooves...which did not work and caused more problems, long story short, when she lost the foal he euthanized her.

Funk AC


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

PitBullSwagga said:


> :goodpost: when my dad and i managed a boarding stable AC was useless...a guy who was basically a "backyard breeder" of race horses had a pregnant (nearly due) mare that couldn't stand up because she was confined to a 12x12 walled stall with no farrier attention- so her hooves grew so long they curled up like elf shoes- when we found her (laying on the ground with flys crawling in and out her ears, eyes, and nose-i thought she was dead) we called AC and you know what they did? NOTHING. they gave him some sort of warning and he had to call a vet out- which he didn't. he then decided to use an electric saw to "trim" her hooves...which did not work and caused more problems, long story short, when she lost the foal he euthanized her.
> 
> Funk AC


dats sad to hear i love horses...never rode 1....its fawked up how they kill dem in mexico...dey lift them up by the hind leg n use dull knives to slit their throats....it takes 10-15 min. for em to die then they ship em cross da sea


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

PitBullSwagga said:


> :goodpost: when my dad and i managed a boarding stable AC was useless...a guy who was basically a "backyard breeder" of race horses had a pregnant (nearly due) mare that couldn't stand up because she was confined to a 12x12 walled stall with no farrier attention- so her hooves grew so long they curled up like elf shoes- when we found her (laying on the ground with flys crawling in and out her ears, eyes, and nose-i thought she was dead) we called AC and you know what they did? NOTHING. they gave him some sort of warning and he had to call a vet out- which he didn't. he then decided to use an electric saw to "trim" her hooves...which did not work and caused more problems, long story short, when she lost the foal he euthanized her.
> 
> Funk AC


To me that story only serves to demonstrate that the AC folks are more likely not to act in cases than to aggressively act. It points more to the fact that when they do act it is not a borderline situation. They typically need clear evidence of cruelty and abuse in order to seize animals and proceed legally. Like you just said they usually issue some sort of warning, which is why the original posters story has a lot of holes in it. They just don't show up and confiscate animals without good cause. My experience is that if you call them about a problem they rarely do anything. So when the authorities step in and take someone's kids or pets or what ever, it is pretty hard to convince me they did it for no reason.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

I have read about several cases where the animals were seized without, what I would consider, "good cause". But they usually don't seize computers without good cause. Still curious as to why they took the computer, that's all.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Atheist said:


> I ask these questions because I for one think a dog living on a chain or in a crate is not ideal for a dog. .


By this statement you are implying that crating a dog is not ideal. How do you suppose you confine a young dog in a house? What if you have 2 APBT's and need to separate them while you are gone? What would be your acceptable and Ideal way to go about this?

What I posted is a response to this statement you made. It makes it sound like anyone that crates, chains, or has dogs in dog runs for part of the day is not an ideal owner. That is far from the truth. Many owners confine dogs appropriately for part of the day because of work or other lifestyles. That by no means makes you a bad owner. And then you are calling my kennel a collector because of the number of dogs we own. I guess my accomplishments and all the work my dogs do is not an ideal situation because they all do not lie on the couch all day, instead they are working. Just because you have a few house pets does not mean breeders, kennels, or dog enthusiasts can not have a multiple dog house. You may not be able to take care of more than two dogs but to make a statement like "Why own more dogs than you can have living in an ideal situation." is nothing more than an opinion. Many people are able to take care of multiple dogs.

I agree you should not own more dogs than you can take care of but our kennels are cleaned daily and we have kennel inspections every year. Not only do we take care of our dogs but I also board dogs too. I don't want this to start a fight but statements like you made don't hold allot of weight since a kennel like mine with 14 dogs get more exercise and training than most people's house dogs. Many people take care of large number of dogs and do it properly.


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

u can crate a dog or chain him up but not permanently , for a couple of hours its fine IMO


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## BmoreTrue (Jun 19, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> By this statement you are implying that crating a dog is not ideal. How do you suppose you confine a young dog in a house? What if you have 2 APBT's and need to separate them while you are gone? What would be your acceptable and Ideal way to go about this?
> 
> What I posted is a response to this statement you made. It makes it sound like anyone that crates, chains, or has dogs in dog runs for part of the day is not an ideal owner. That is far from the truth. Many owners confine dogs appropriately for part of the day because of work or other lifestyles. That by no means makes you a bad owner. And then you are calling my kennel a collector because of the number of dogs we own. I guess my accomplishments and all the work my dogs do is not an ideal situation because they all do not lie on the couch all day, instead they are working. Just because you have a few house pets does not mean breeders, kennels, or dog enthusiasts can not have a multiple dog house. You may not be able to take care of more than two dogs but to make a statement like "Why own more dogs than you can have living in an ideal situation." is nothing more than an opinion. Many people are able to take care of multiple dogs.
> 
> I agree you should not own more dogs than you can take care of but our kennels are cleaned daily and we have kennel inspections every year. Not only do we take care of our dogs but I also board dogs too. I don't want this to start a fight but statements like you made don't hold allot of weight since a kennel like mine with 14 dogs get more exercise and training than most people's house dogs. Many people take care of large number of dogs and do it properly.


thats why AC isn't kicking down your door to take your dogs....you obviously take fantastic care of your dogs! but not everybody does. as for me one is enough! (for now :roll


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## bullydogla (Oct 15, 2008)

razors_edge said:


> dats sad to hear i love horses...never rode 1....its fawked up how they kill dem in mexico...dey lift them up by the hind leg n use dull knives to slit their throats....it takes 10-15 min. for em to die then they ship em cross da sea


Is it really that hard to type "th"? or do you really use a "d" instead when your actually speaking?


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

bullydogla said:


> Is it really that hard to type "th"? or do you really use a "d" instead when your actually speaking?


lmaoooo....ey man im writin wit a ps3 contoller not a kboard , my thumbs hurt ....excuse me for my grammar ....come on how do u write txt msgs ?? DO YOU USE PERFECT GRAMMAR??


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

only bitches complain bout that n ur da 1st on dis site


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## BmoreTrue (Jun 19, 2009)

razors_edge said:


> lmaoooo....ey man im writin wit a ps3 contoller not a kboard , my thumbs hurt ....excuse me for my grammar ....come on how do u write txt msgs ?? DO YOU USE PERFECT GRAMMAR??


*
oivay* typing on playstation what a PIT (no pun intended well maybe)...im def guilty of using "slang" abbreviations... like gonna, imma .....i also consider myself an awesome speller but definitely is my word arch nemesis...so i just say DEF
yay its friday def gonna rock out hah!


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

BmoreTrue said:


> *
> oivay* typing on playstation what a PIT (no pun intended well maybe)...im def guilty of using "slang" abbreviations... like gonna, imma .....i also consider myself an awesome speller but definitely is my word arch nemesis...so i just say DEF
> yay its friday def gonna rock out hah!


i was a spellin bee champ back n elementary...lol nerd!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

BmoreTrue said:


> thats why AC isn't kicking down your door to take your dogs....you obviously take fantastic care of your dogs! but not everybody does. as for me one is enough! (for now :roll


I have had Friends of mine who have nice yards just like mine be harassed by AC because of neighbors who do not like APBT's. Many think if you have more than 2 APBT's you are dog fighting. We have a task force in the state and they advertise if you see someone with more than 2 APBT's to turn them in to be investigate for fighting. I kid you not I have had many client harassed by this "task force". They are not just a dog fighting task force, you can call them for anything. I just had a good friend of mine who breed Sulkies get bothered by this group. You think by doing nothing wrong you would not have to live in fear but that is far from the truth. they could come in here and say because I have historical books about pre 1976 box dogs, break sticks in every room, a tread mill, and a Boston terrier that I am fighting dogs and the Boston is a bait dog. I have enough "paraphernalia" to be a dog fighter to some of these AC groups. That is why I have a good relationship with my county AC but the state is another whole different issue. It is legal to have a break stick in my county but not the state..... go figure
Don't believe me? It happens all the time.

That is why I am not quick to judge someone who is having legal issues and had dogs seized. people really need to wake up and find out just by owning the breed they can say you are doing something illegal.

So again this goes back to the other thread where people said if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. You have to worry if you own an APBT.


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> By this statement you are implying that crating a dog is not ideal. How do you suppose you confine a young dog in a house? What if you have 2 APBT's and need to separate them while you are gone? What would be your acceptable and Ideal way to go about this?
> 
> What I posted is a response to this statement you made. It makes it sound like anyone that crates, chains, or has dogs in dog runs for part of the day is not an ideal owner. That is far from the truth. Many owners confine dogs appropriately for part of the day because of work or other lifestyles. That by no means makes you a bad owner. And then you are calling my kennel a collector because of the number of dogs we own. I guess my accomplishments and all the work my dogs do is not an ideal situation because they all do not lie on the couch all day, instead they are working. Just because you have a few house pets does not mean breeders, kennels, or dog enthusiasts can not have a multiple dog house. You may not be able to take care of more than two dogs but to make a statement like "Why own more dogs than you can have living in an ideal situation." is nothing more than an opinion. Many people are able to take care of multiple dogs.
> 
> I agree you should not own more dogs than you can take care of but our kennels are cleaned daily and we have kennel inspections every year. Not only do we take care of our dogs but I also board dogs too. I don't want this to start a fight but statements like you made don't hold allot of weight since a kennel like mine with 14 dogs get more exercise and training than most people's house dogs. Many people take care of large number of dogs and do it properly.


You really do need to re-read what I posted. My posts clearly state that there is nothing wrong with crating or chaining a dog for a while. I take exception to a dog spending a MAJORITY of his time in this manner. You are getting awfully defensive or feeling guilty. In my post I distinguish between dog businesses with inspections and licenses, from those back yard types that have 14 dogs and are not breeders, boarders, rescues etc. You have a legitimate dog business and that means you have to do certain things. If you were not in the business of breeding and operating a kennel then yes I would think you were a collector, but I never accused you of anything. I state my opinion regarding the subject and you seem to be thinking it is directed at you. It is directed to the original poster a person that has had his dogs siezed by AC. I am sure you dogs are well cared for and therefore your dogs, computers, etc are not being siezed. Relax


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I am not defensive but the way you said it seemed to lump everyone together. And yes when you said if you have 14 dogs then you are a collector I did take that personal because that is how many dogs I stated have. Like I said I do not want to argue about it but I just don't think a general statement can be made about all people with large number of dogs. 

I do not think we can pass judgment in this thread about dogs being seized. we just don't know all the facts.

Atheist we cool?


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

kstr0h said:


> i gotta agree. it could easily be a scam.





razors_edge said:


> damn i thought i was goin to b in dis by myself..BULLS HENRY no disrespect man but im not helpin u


nah that aint his style POINT BLANK PERIOD!!!! henry is also known as mugger on clubbully.com. dude is a real asset to the pitbull community! he believes in working his dogs some might take it the wrong way like the law.

these are a few pics i got saved on my hd a lil old but bruno is one of my favorite dogs, i hope you dont mind henry! if anything holla at me and i'll take them down.

just take a look at the last pic with killer jumping, just the treadmill alone is enough for them to justify the taking of his dogs cause if you work your dogs you are training them to fight according to the uneducated


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Atheist said:


> You really do need to re-read what I posted. My posts clearly state that there is nothing wrong with crating or chaining a dog for a while. I take exception to a dog spending a MAJORITY of his time in this manner. You are getting awfully defensive or feeling guilty. In my post I distinguish between dog businesses with inspections and licenses, from those back yard types that have 14 dogs and are not breeders, boarders, rescues etc. You have a legitimate dog business and that means you have to do certain things. If you were not in the business of breeding and operating a kennel then yes I would think you were a collector, but I never accused you of anything. I state my opinion regarding the subject and you seem to be thinking it is directed at you. It is directed to the original poster a person that has had his dogs siezed by AC. I am sure you dogs are well cared for and therefore your dogs, computers, etc are not being siezed. Relax


Atheist... your input is requested here?

I have 6 dogs on a chain 24/7, they have food, water, shelter so whats the problem with it? and dogs have lived for 100's of years this way so whats the problem now?

http://www.gopitbull.com/goldmine/11144-chaining-dog-cruel.html

Oh and yes there taken off for shows and to get exercise...

http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_sit...kin_id=406&utm_source=otm&utm_medium=text_url


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

Yes of course we are totally cool. I respect responsible breeders and I never consider the number of dogs someone has as a negative in and of itself. I used the number 14 because the Octomom has 14 kids and it did come up in your post. You have a business breeding dogs, running a kennel, and submit to inspections and I assume you have a kennel license. That is a different scenario. The original poster made it clear they were not breeders but yet had litters. They had numerous dogs on the property and claimed they were all pets and not in business. I believe in California you are required to have a kennel license to own more than a few dogs ( I don't know exact number). In any case, I find your posts informative and knowledgable. My comments were not directed at any legitamate breeder, rescue, kennel etc.


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

Marty said:


> Atheist... your input is requested here?
> 
> I have 6 dogs on a chain 24/7, they have food, water, shelter so whats the problem with it? and dogs have lived for 100's of years this way so whats the problem now?
> 
> http://www.gopitbull.com/goldmine/11144-chaining-dog-cruel.html


A dog spending some time on a chain is not cruel in my opinion. A dog spending 24/7 on a chain is. Just because something is done for hundreds of years does not make it OK. Examples of things that have gone on for hundreds of years are, slavery, torture, murder, war, racism, human sacrafice, female circumcision, marrying close relatives, I can go on but the fact that something has been done or exists for a long time is not justification. There are things that are a crime today, that were considered acceptable for hundreds of years. Society evolves and so does what is considered acceptable. Dog fighting is one of those things.

To each his own but you asked, I answered. You have to do what you feel is right, but dogs on chains 24/7 is not humane in my opinion.


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

the op takes care of his dogs better than most people take care of their kids, i have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone who takes out the time to work and maintain their dogs the way that he does. it just shows us how vulnerable we really are, if we work our dogs we risk loosing our dogs or paying large amounts of money to lawyers to possibly get them back, its just sad and cruel


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Atheist said:


> A dog spending some time on a chain is not cruel in my opinion. A dog spending 24/7 on a chain is. Just because something is done for hundreds of years does not make it OK. Examples of things that have gone on for hundreds of years are, slavery, torture, murder, war, racism, human sacrafice, female circumcision, marrying close relatives, I can go on but the fact that something has been done or exists for a long time is not justification. There are things that are a crime today, that were considered acceptable for hundreds of years. Society evolves and so does what is considered acceptable. Dog fighting is one of those things.
> 
> To each his own but you asked, I answered. You have to do what you feel is right, but dogs on chains 24/7 is not humane in my opinion.


I ask you, how many dogs do you own and how are they breed?

As I've said before I can own as many dogs as I want, I got 8 right now and none are neglected so whats the big deal?

My dogs are Game - breed and if I let them together they'd kill each other so should I unchain my dogs in your eyes?

You don't know me but a A lot here do 

Your starting to sound like HSUS and PETA now


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

Look I don't want to engage in a circular discussion. If you know your dogs are game bred then of course there is a connection to game breeding either directly or indirectly. No matter how much you feed them and give them water and take care of their health needs, keeping dogs on chains 24/7 makes no sense to me. If you are breeding game dogs then that is a business and I have no comment. If you are fighting dogs then I have no comment. If you are just collecting game dogs so you can keep them on chains and show them off then I have no comment. Do you want to say exactly what it is you do with your dogs? What purpose does keeping a collection of dogs on chains that want to kill each other serve? I do understand that owning fighting dogs or breeding game dogs requires the keeping of dogs on chains to prevent them from killing each other before they try to do it in competition. I just don't unerstand the motivation unless breeding or fighting dogs is part of it. That is not an accusation and frankly as I have said before, although I am not interested in watching dogs fight, I do understand how it has created a fabulous dog. The great dilema of the pit bull lover. Stuff is not always what it seems but then again, most of the time it is exactly what it seems.

To answer your other question- I have had a couple of pitbull and both were family pets. One I got from someone that was fighting dogs and I took an 8 week old puppy and made it a pet. I had that dog until it died at age 16. The dog I have now is a rescue I have had him since he was about a year old. I have no clue as to his breeding but you can see his picture and make a guess probably better than I. 

As for sounding like PETA, I am not fanatical about the subject. I can even accept dog fighting although I personally I could not condone it. Obviously I appreciate the result as I am a pitbull owner. I think what I really have a problem with is all the denial surrounding game breeding.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

You guuuuys.... you're justifying yourselves to a person who raised his dog on a boat... chill out... he didn't chain his dog... he just kept him on a boat in the middle of the water.... Wasn't able to walk him or play a honest hard frizbee game.


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Atheist only one way to find out... send the man up on me and lets see what happen's, If I don't get busted will you go to jail for life, damn I 'm a cruel M/F so you have nothing to worry about right?


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

Marty said:


> Atheist only one way to find out... send the man up on me and lets see what happen's, If I don't get busted will you go to jail for life, damn I 'm a cruel M/F so you have nothing to worry about right?


This post makes no sense. But it is very insightful.


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

NEELA said:


> You guuuuys.... you're justifying yourselves to a person who raised his dog on a boat... chill out... he didn't chain his dog... he just kept him on a boat in the middle of the water.... Wasn't able to walk him or play a honest hard frizbee game.


Well it seems on this forum disagreeing with moderators is enough to really cause a problem. First of all I owned the dog for almost 17 years. I had a house and then moved to a large sailing yacht. The boat was not in the middle of the water, it was in a marina at a dock. I took the dog everywhere, there was a large field right at the top of the dog and great beach a two minute walk away. The dog was a family pet a companion, slept and lived with us 24/7. Hardly comprable to chaing a dog 24/7. How you could come up with the statement that I did not walk her or play frizbee is ridiculous. Did you really think we lived in the middle of the ocean adrift in a rowboat? Nice try but way off base. BTW you're are a moderator so should I duck the ban stick now?


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## bullydogla (Oct 15, 2008)

razors_edge said:


> only bitches complain bout that n ur da 1st on dis site


Well it took me all weekend to decipher this illiterate bull**** I have quoted in this msg. The msg to those of you who couldn't understand it either was that Razors_edge's mother is not a member here on Gopitbull.com. For if she was I would have been refered to as the second b**** here on this site.


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

All right here we go, I just got done reading this post,and the facts are the facts, I went to court on the 26th it was a friday pretty sunny and warm...And I still havent been able to get my dogs back!oh yea they dismissed the first case which is the reason they went to the house in the first place, but when they went 3 dogs were crated,because we were watching them for a few days,and during that time i took care of each dog as if it was my own,,,,they released those 5 dogs to my freind,and kept mine..I would call A.C to try and get them out, i would go there as well, the same A.C officer that called the cops on me at the pond said if I went trhere again (pound) i would be arrested for trespassing, soon after THAT SAME GUY went and requested a warrant to go after all registry papers camaras ,electronic ,computers etc, pictures show results, and pitbulls used for illegal dog breeding is what the warrant says.I was at my brothers office when I got the call that there were a lot of cops and basically a raid was being done..So i close up and go ,during the day my wife watches one of my brothers dogs at the house, why well because she was bred and needs to be watched real closely to make sure nothing bad happens to her,they took her and 3 other dogs, my brother has his house dirictly across the street from where i live and we go back and forth all the time,Bruno stays at his house ,he keeps 3 dogs there and I keep 2 dogs at my place, my sister has a rednose trhats just a pet and that completes the 3 , so 3 at my house and 3 at my brothers house...I know what I do w/ the dogs every day, I know how I leave them when I leave to go help my bro at his office, my wife stays home and makes sure everything goes smooth...I have 2 slatmills a carpetmill, spring pole, dragsled, flirtpole etc and they get used every day,each dog gets its excersize ,,,the time limit is 2 hours to keep a dog tethered, we use that along w/ crates whenever we have dogs that we take care of for any one of our freinds , whenever they need it.. So basically it comes down to that,,, there is no such permit to allow us to breed in my city , i called today spoke w/ Kathy Miller just to make sure, what they do is charge an xtra 250 dollars if you want to keep a 4th dog on the property but you are allowed 2 breedings perhouse per year,,, breeding is not the issue, only one dog out of all the dogs has been bred and thats the one that was taken,,, the female they did a c-section on is not owned by me ,but we were watching her,and even after they took her and returned her to her owneres , my freind still needed us to make sure she healed correctly,I called them a few times just to ask if it would be allright to bring those dogs to the house while my court date came up, i never got the call back to tell me,no you cant or yes, my brother asked my wife to care for his girl and thats what she was doing,she got caught up because the A.C wanted to come and take what they wanted.I st6ill dont have my dogs back! Now I have to wait till the 17th for a prelim and start all over again, I had Jury trial set up for the 7th but they dismissed that,so that It could prolong this whole thing even more, at this point its well over 6,000 dollars to get the dogs out, which havent even been released yet...The .D.A my P.D or the judge are not familiar w/ dog laws and havent had acase like this come through there, so they dont know what to do, I have more than enough proof and evidence to show how I take care of the dogs, but its all a process...Im not going to come on a public forum and ask people for money just because...Im trying to look up all the ordinances and codes, there is so much B.S especially w/ HSUS and PETA and w/ peoplke that fall for all that b.s ...
BSL: is no joke and if I had my way , id own as many dogs as I could care for, I would still take care of them, and I dont think keeping a dog on a chain is bad at all either...
it all started w/ a neighbor of mine that kept trying to get me to get rid of my dogs, I did the whole thing where A.C would come and find nothing wrong, somewhere along the line I had to start going to court on a citation for trying to be responsible w/ dogs that people couldnt keep or brought back, and for that they wanted to give me probation, I never took it and brings us to this whole situation, the dogs are the ones that suffer in all of this, and what they do is more cruelty than anything they will try and say,,, I work w/ all the dogs every day, and I know a lil bout what Im suposed to do, I never got into dogs to breed and make money, I am just glad and happy that there has been not one kennel accident for yeras now, and if something like that would have happened, it would be a felony id be facing and not some bs misdemeaner charges, and I still dont have my dogs back.....I appreciate the support and for posting pics of Bruno... if Bruno would have been at my place for what ever reason hed be in the pound too!...
Marty, I love your girl she is super nice love the blood as well....
every one this could happen to any one, juyst cause you sit back and watch animal planet doesnt make every case the same... I live my lifestyle about the dogs and I dont just watch it on t.v....I have no guilty conscience on how my dogs are raised or cared for, I feel I try my best to learn as much as possible bout them, and w/ all these new laws being passed ,its getting real hard just to be a part of the breed what ever the choice of dog you prefer....
Henry


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I am so sorry to hear you are goin through this crap! My heart goes out to you!


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> I am so sorry to hear you are goin through this crap! My heart goes out to you!


Thanks ,this is nothing nice,,Ive been real busy looking up laws and codes and there are so many, I know that not every one is up on game on them , I am not and now im paying for it,,,All i know is that as far as the dogs go I treat them as if they were my kids and will never cop to any type of buse charge, they know that I love my dogs but still gotta make a case for what ever reason(MONEY) ..My dogs are not there for being out at large or being agrressive..This is some B.S for reals ,,,,hopefully when the court date comes and the trial takes place everything will get resolved, many people know and see me w/ the dogs and know how much I put into them.Not to mention sb250 and what HSUS is tring to do ,there are alot of people trying to make up somne bullshitt ass laws every where...I think its time that all dog owners should come together and fight this as one,,, it would be something to see game dog folk and bully breeder folk and show folks come together to allow us to enjoy what we prefer, we can go back and argue about the purity later on, at this time we need to stand together and fight it! Sporting dogs,hunting dogs all kinds of dogs and anything pit are being targeted, I have much respect for all types of dogs and try my best to keep it respectful. bottom line is I dont have my dogs and its a taste of what its going to come down to...


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## jsgixxer (Mar 9, 2009)

Iam so sorry to here what is going on with u and your dogs..


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

jsgixxer said:


> Iam so sorry to here what is going on with u and your dogs..


Thank you, it is something that really wears you down...I cant believe that nobody w/ any pull can just go out and look at the dogs in person and quickly determine that they are cared for socialized and in great health.
Its all a process and will come down to fees and fines and whatever else they feel like adding to it...


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Man my heart goes out to you and all of your dogs. I know I don't have a working yard and don't deal with the harrassment you do, but I can imagine how hard it must be to have your LIFE taken from you like that. Keep your head up and keep us posted on how things are going. I hope you have a good attorney on your side, because it looks like this has all been contorted beyond recognition!


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

1503-bulls-henry said:


> All right here we go, I just got done reading this post,and the facts are the facts, I went to court on the 26th it was a friday pretty sunny and warm...And I still havent been able to get my dogs back!oh yea they dismissed the first case which is the reason they went to the house in the first place, but when they went 3 dogs were crated,because we were watching them for a few days,and during that time i took care of each dog as if it was my own,,,,they released those 5 dogs to my freind,and kept mine..I would call A.C to try and get them out, i would go there as well, the same A.C officer that called the cops on me at the pond said if I went trhere again (pound) i would be arrested for trespassing, soon after THAT SAME GUY went and requested a warrant to go after all registry papers camaras ,electronic ,computers etc, pictures show results, and pitbulls used for illegal dog breeding is what the warrant says.I was at my brothers office when I got the call that there were a lot of cops and basically a raid was being done..So i close up and go ,during the day my wife watches one of my brothers dogs at the house, why well because she was bred and needs to be watched real closely to make sure nothing bad happens to her,they took her and 3 other dogs, my brother has his house dirictly across the street from where i live and we go back and forth all the time,Bruno stays at his house ,he keeps 3 dogs there and I keep 2 dogs at my place, my sister has a rednose trhats just a pet and that completes the 3 , so 3 at my house and 3 at my brothers house...I know what I do w/ the dogs every day, I know how I leave them when I leave to go help my bro at his office, my wife stays home and makes sure everything goes smooth...I have 2 slatmills a carpetmill, spring pole, dragsled, flirtpole etc and they get used every day,each dog gets its excersize ,,,the time limit is 2 hours to keep a dog tethered, we use that along w/ crates whenever we have dogs that we take care of for any one of our freinds , whenever they need it.. So basically it comes down to that,,, there is no such permit to allow us to breed in my city , i called today spoke w/ Kathy Miller just to make sure, what they do is charge an xtra 250 dollars if you want to keep a 4th dog on the property but you are allowed 2 breedings perhouse per year,,, breeding is not the issue, only one dog out of all the dogs has been bred and thats the one that was taken,,, the female they did a c-section on is not owned by me ,but we were watching her,and even after they took her and returned her to her owneres , my freind still needed us to make sure she healed correctly,I called them a few times just to ask if it would be allright to bring those dogs to the house while my court date came up, i never got the call back to tell me,no you cant or yes, my brother asked my wife to care for his girl and thats what she was doing,she got caught up because the A.C wanted to come and take what they wanted.I st6ill dont have my dogs back! Now I have to wait till the 17th for a prelim and start all over again, I had Jury trial set up for the 7th but they dismissed that,so that It could prolong this whole thing even more, at this point its well over 6,000 dollars to get the dogs out, which havent even been released yet...The .D.A my P.D or the judge are not familiar w/ dog laws and havent had acase like this come through there, so they dont know what to do, I have more than enough proof and evidence to show how I take care of the dogs, but its all a process...Im not going to come on a public forum and ask people for money just because...Im trying to look up all the ordinances and codes, there is so much B.S especially w/ HSUS and PETA and w/ peoplke that fall for all that b.s ...
> BSL: is no joke and if I had my way , id own as many dogs as I could care for, I would still take care of them, and I dont think keeping a dog on a chain is bad at all either...
> it all started w/ a neighbor of mine that kept trying to get me to get rid of my dogs, I did the whole thing where A.C would come and find nothing wrong, somewhere along the line I had to start going to court on a citation for trying to be responsible w/ dogs that people couldnt keep or brought back, and for that they wanted to give me probation, I never took it and brings us to this whole situation, the dogs are the ones that suffer in all of this, and what they do is more cruelty than anything they will try and say,,, I work w/ all the dogs every day, and I know a lil bout what Im suposed to do, I never got into dogs to breed and make money, I am just glad and happy that there has been not one kennel accident for yeras now, and if something like that would have happened, it would be a felony id be facing and not some bs misdemeaner charges, and I still dont have my dogs back.....I appreciate the support and for posting pics of Bruno... if Bruno would have been at my place for what ever reason hed be in the pound too!...
> Marty, I love your girl she is super nice love the blood as well....
> ...


It probably would have been a good idea to look up the laws and civil zoning codes before turning your house into a kennel or pitbull training facility. I think there is a lot of hipocrasy here lately, as usually most on this site discourage any breeding unless done by a registered breeder of pure bred dogs, and I hear a lot about how dog fighting is reprehensible. Animal control is there to enforce the laws not create them. So why so many are automatically against AC taking action to protect pitbulls is a little beyond me.

You admit to having dogs that have reproduced, what do you do with the puppies? Sounds like back yard breeding to me. In a world where there are dogs being put down and abandoned every day, for what purpose are you allowing your dogs to reproduce? Are your dogs registered purebreds? I do not question your love for your dogs or your passion for dogs, but like you said, you would have as many dogs as you could care for. I read about an old lady that loved and had over 200 cats, unfortunately that is not legal. If the dogs at your house are all yours, frankly you own too many for most juristictions. If they are not, then essentially you are operating a kennel. Just because someone loves dogs does not make it appropriate to turn their house into a kennel or rescue. I had a neighbor who loved junk, you better believe I had a problem when his house began to look like a junk yard.

In some respects illegally possessing dogs is like illegally possessing drugs, if it is on your property it is very hard to tell the authorities that they do not belong to you, unless of course someone else is willing to claim and take responsibility for them. I can sympathize with your situation but if I were going to donate money to a cause, it would be to a tax deductible non profit rescue organization not your personal bank account. It sounds like your dogs may wind up with a qualified animal rescue anyway.

Dog fighting is illegal. It appears there is a very simple reason why your dogs computers, computers, cameras, papers etc were seized. That is because the authorities responsible for enforcing the laws got a warrant. They got that warrant because there was probable cause to conduct a search and seizure. That probable cause was a large quantity of pitbulls, evidence of breeding, 2 slatmills a carpetmill, spring pole, dragsled, flirtpole etc. Now everybody is innocent until proven guilty but if AC saw the evidence listed above and did not obtain a warrant and investigate then they would not be doing there job.

The responsible pitbull community needs to really decide if it is really opposed to dog fighting and if it is really abuse, or if we really just want to look the other way when someone is preserving the breed by training, game testing, and breeding. So if you see all the parafinalia, should it be investigated or not?

I still stick by my gut feeling that says if it looks like a duck, and smells like a duck, and tastes like a duck, it probably is a duck. Society has evolved to a point that has outlawed certain behaviors and I sincerely believe that if the right to own pitbulls as pets is going to be preserved, then they must be owned and treated as pets. IMO guys who insist on this back yard stuff are only going to help those who want to see BSL enacted succeed. We need more people responsibly owning pitbulls as family pets and less of this.


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

ATHEIST, you are entitled to your opinion and it doesnt affect me in any way.My family has two houses dirictly accross the street from each other okay,u follow me? At my brothers home there are 3 dogs, at my house there are 3 dogs...If we want to keep a 4th dog its 250 bucks per house okay.If I wanted to be a commercial kennel I would have looked up all that is needed for it.This is only a hobby and I have informed myself on the ammount of breedings allowed and permits needed for it,, they do not offer any breeding permit, u can breed your female 2 xs a year, I told them that is too much but they said thats what it is...What do I do w/ the pups , well let me tell you nothing off that litter was sold and I actively show them all year,why do I have all the equipment well because w/ the type of dogs I have no one really uses themk and for my program it gives my dogs the advantage to get them in the best shape possible for the shows,now if you dont do tghat w/ your dogs thats fine, but i choose to give my dogs proper excersize all the time...None of my dogs ever been to the pound or have been abandoned or are part of the problem w/ overpopulation,how do I know, well because I( do9 not sell dogs and the pups I had are w/ me and my freinds,the whole litter is accouinted fotr they are 14 months old now, Rockin Roll, casino,Bentley,Whiskey,Gypsy,and Crush, yea thats all one litter all 6 of them none were sold and I see most of tghem all the time,,,that litter was conceived in a back yard as most litter and breedings are too right?And yes the owners of the dogs that I do not own are there ready and waitinmg to claim them ,thats not the problem here, the issue is they are taking way too long to give them back...That female that I had the litter w/ last year is owned by my brother he lives acrross the street from me ,he has his own yard and dogs she was given a year before he decided to breed her and hes going to spay her afterwrds, that breeding wasnt done at anyones back yuard it was performed by a reproductive specialist and a lot of thought and research was put into the stud that was used, you may not agree in the style of dog but none of the parents have any issues and in the type of dogs that are involved everything is being looked at , temp, health etc,,, dont come at me w/ healtrh test5ing and this n that,,,cause even 2 parents that are fully tested for hips and elbows heart etc still can produce dogs w/ issues so just based on the ancestary and the way the dogs are is good enough to have her bred,,, I shouldnt even have to explain anything to you, but the fact is the fact...So you are telling me because i condition my dogs that they most likely are being used for illegal purposes? come on now are you that ignorant who would actually do that w/ the tyupe of dogs we have? Its your choice if you want to have a pitbull as a pet, thats ciool, so do we but the thing is we do stuff w/ our dogs we take them to shows and some weightpull , we take our mills to shopws and show how the dogs love to run it, is that illegal? you dont have to donate anything or give reasons why you are not,thats on you and if you donate to whatever you want try petpac and really make a difference other thatn just comming on here talking like you know so much,This isnt at all about dog fighting , they confiscated everything that has to do w/ my dogs their ukc peds, but they chose to leave their numerous 1st place tropys and ribbons, the mills and equipment are still there, they want to pick and choose what they want to use as eveidence and take what I have collected to show the courts and stop me from having a fair trial...Sound to me like you prolly are an A.C or kbnow someone close to you that is..So is I gop out and pay for a piece of paper that says im a breeder and then breed w/ the same knoledge I have , that willbe okay? I never advertise online in the paper or any of that, I know where my dogs go and its not motivated by money at all... I rather have say in dogs that have came out of stuff Ive owned than to sell them, beacause I care and need to know who has them and what is done w/ them, the difference is I dont care about breeding for money and Im not just saying that, muy actions have shown that time and time again,,,, dogs Ive given away ive taken back and placed them to the right people,,,there are a lot of times ive helped people w/ their dogs and I know what goes on w/ [people tghat are in it for the money , If yopu feel you have to make a point about that through my situation, I dont car4e, I have nothing to worry about, but i have seen that justice takes money straight up...for your information it had nothing to do w/ the slatmills or any of the equipment, from A.C mouth they flat out told me that they know I dont fight my dogs!They know I help freinds out and show dogs. Whats on the computer a lot of pictures of dogs, and dog shows,nothing ilegal at all...








This paticular dogs sire was one of the dogs they took,,,,, I took this picture on one of the visits I made to go see how she is doing,,, I gave this dog away and she is doing real good at shows, always gets 1st place and is a rep of the kind of dog i like,she loves the slatmill does that mean she is being trained to fight? you sound as ignorant as A.C ,,, If i wanted to make money off her I could have,,,, He mother came off one of my dogs she was given away to a freind of mine he bred her at the right time and I got her in return, now I gave her away to another freind and when the time comes Ill get one of her offspring and slowly get my 7 gen ped w/ dogs Ive produced witjhout having to keep too many dogs,Plus im using what I feel is the best example for what I envision...What happens to the rest of the litter? well rest assure that they are in good homes as well, i show my freinds and anybody that asks me ,and they learn as much as I learn cause I try to learn something new every day...I dont need your approval or ton raise my dogs the way you do..It seems that if you train and excersize your dogs people will think dog fighting and if you dont it seems they will think why own a dog....So just keep your money and leave it at that,im the one that is gouing to court and hopefully I get a good jury that will see thev truth...thanks for your opinion anyways...


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

Just to clarify I am not accusing you of dog fighting. I am making a point that before everybody jumps on AC, look at the situation. If it appears a lot like dog fighting or breeding they will and are obligated to investigate. After reading your last post, it has become a clear by your own statements that you are breeding 
"slowly get my 7 gen ped w/ dogs Ive produced" 

I have no problem with dog breeding, but how you feel you can do this without being subject to kennel inspections and breeding regulations is beyond me. This is the definition of back yard breeding. While explaining yourself you are really exposing a lot. If you were my neighbor I might have a big problem with your operation, enterprise or hobby whatever you choose to call it.

Do yourself a big favor when you go to court don't talk too much, you will clearly hang yourself with the rope they give you.

A good lawyer will tell you to plea bargain and won't allow you to testify in your own defense.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Atheist I find it disgusting how you keep talking sh*t about this. If you have nothing to good to add to this thread why don't you do us all a favor and just not post on this thread. This is how threads go down hill fast. If you would like to start a "be nice to the AC" thread then by all means do, but your continued lack of respect and sympathy of what is going on in this mans life makes me sick! I really do not want to start a words war over this but have some respect and let it go!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Atheist I find it disgusting how you keep talking sh*t about this. If you have nothing to good to add to this thread why don't you do us all a favor and just not post on this thread. This is how threads go down hill fast. If you would like to start a "be nice to the AC" thread then by all means do, but your continued lack of respect and sympathy of what is going on in this mans life makes me sick! I really do not want to start a words war over this but have some respect and let it go!


:clap: I agree. I believe some of the things you say are important, factual, and relevant. However, posting arguments on a thread about reaching out to the community is NOT relevant and is unneeded. This man has it hard enough right now dealing with the state, learning about different law codes and doing what he can to make the situation right, and I'm sure the last thing he wants to do is go back and forth with something that isnt constructive or positive! I agree that AC is sometimes looked down on unreasonably but so are cops and figures of authority altogether. There's always two sides to the story I agree but what this man needs is support, not an argument.


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## Atheist (Apr 27, 2009)

I agree, so I will say this and be done. To expect me to have respect and sympathy for the very things that are hurting the breed, making it difficult to have a pitbull as a pet, and contribute to BSL hysteria, is pretty hypocritical. When someone uses a public forum to solicit money and or support for this behavior they should be prepared for the possibility that others might publicly express their opinion even if it is different. Feel free to disagree but don't imply that because I have an opinion different than yours it is not relevant to the forum, protection of the breed, or should not be said. 

Hey there is a guy in CA who drug his dog behind a truck for a quarter mile. He had pitbulls and needs help for his defense. Lets all rush to his aid as one big happy community.


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

Atheist, there are no breeding regulations in my city, so just dont even worry too much bout A.C...You want to be defending them a lil too much there dont you think? For your info ,there are employees of that same shelter that feel what they are doing is wrong and way overboard...So until you know exactly what is going on just dont come on here trying to stir it up...Hopefully this gets resolved as soon as possible and ill let you see the transcripts that way you wont have to be assunimg anything the facts will be there in black and white... thanks 4 your concern.....

performanceknls, thanks yea it would be a good idea to make a thread about how wonderfull A.C has been to people that own Pitbulls or pitbull type of dogs, lets see how that goes...Im not on here for pitty or to beg for money, im just letting it be known what is going on...Thanks again..

StaffDaddy, yea laws change ordinances always changing and being put up, its not as simple as just doing right by the dogs anymore, its comming down to money basically.
Ive had good A.C officers come by and lately the ones Ive been dealing with are far from reasonable and its obious to me what they are trying to do, buid a case out of nothing straight up....Ive talked to lawyers that tell me that they have dealt w/ real abuse cases and from looking at my evidence its obious that they are not abused...
anyways thanks hopefully I get the dogs back,cause by them being at the piound is way more abusive because they6 are used to a quality of life that they are not giving to them... I have A.C lies on paper and a few more things againsyt them,but im sure old Atheist there will find a way to defend them lol.....








Product of a breeding that was done in the front yard ....


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

This is one of the dogs that they took...








this is another one of the dogs that was taken,but later returned to his owner...and luckily he is still w/ him seern him last weekend he took 3rd in confo.








and this is my boy bully dog that is prolly going through hell at the pound...








yea these dogs are being abused hugh?








this boy live right across the street from my house and I always would take him to my place to work him out, now I cant do that cause A.C is basically dognapping my brothers dogs too.but they tried to take thos dogs too at one point.








so if A.C would have came at the time i snapped this pic hed be there too.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Atheist said:


> I agree, so I will say this and be done. To expect me to have respect and sympathy for the very things that are hurting the breed, making it difficult to have a pitbull as a pet, and contribute to BSL hysteria, is pretty hypocritical. When someone uses a public forum to solicit money and or support for this behavior they should be prepared for the possibility that others might publicly express their opinion even if it is different. Feel free to disagree but don't imply that because I have an opinion different than yours it is not relevant to the forum, protection of the breed, or should not be said.
> 
> Hey there is a guy in CA who drug his dog behind a truck for a quarter mile. He had pitbulls and needs help for his defense. Lets all rush to his aid as one big happy community.


If someone came on here, who obviously had little no business breeding or owning this breed, puppy peddlers for example, i would show no sympathy either. But what it seems like youre saying is you cant be sympathetic to the ones you believe are contributing to the problems. I don't think that 1503 is doing anything wrong, and just because he has a yard with paraphanalia does not make it so. Many reputable breeders and dogmen alike utilize these items to work and condition these dogs.

You comparing this to some idiot dragging his dog behind a truck is absurd and if it weren't for all the warnings Ive been getting for my language I'd give you a piece of my mind.

I'm not gonna sit here and read you bash on someone going through this I hope you slip up and get the stick indefinitely.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

let me add one more thing atheist, now that you have me fully heated... There's a BIG BIG BIG BIG difference between pushing your dogs to their potential (work wise) and abusing and neglecting them. I believe it's as much neglect to have a dog on a boat with no means to run around and be active, like this breed should be. So don't go pointin fingers when some of the things you claim to do are just outright ignorant!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Like I said before I have break sticks, tread mills. flirt poles with rabbit hides, a breeding stand........ does that make us fighters? LMAO

I agree staffy dad we should keep our mouths shut so we do not get the stick! lol

Henry the dogs look great! really truly heart breaking!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Like I said before I have break sticks, tread mills. flirt poles with rabbit hides, a breeding stand........ does that make us fighters? LMAO
> 
> I agree staffy dad we should keep our mouths shut so we do not get the stick! lol
> 
> Henry the dogs look great! really truly heart breaking!


Yeah man I know I said it before buy my heart goes out to you you have nothing to prove to us I believe youre a good guy just show the laws the proof is in the puddin you obviously love the breed which is why theyre worked, loved and well cared for. i agree theyre great looking dogs.


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

Staff Daddy, thanks,dont even worry bout that lady because ,the whole point is that what im going through with my dogs is a taste of what BSL is really about,and by argueing w/ other pitbull owners is not doing any one any good at all especially the dogs...Ive encountered people like Atheist all the time while I train my dogs for pulling,and stuff like that, some get it some dont, im trying to have my dogs be more athletic and I also like the style that the bully dogs have, I have some very good representaions of the breed as far their structure health and temp go and do my best to study it and keep moving forward,,, I agree w/ what you said though and thanks!








This was at omne of the shows and this girl demostrates how much she loves to work!








yes even my bully dogs love to be challenged and I love to see them work the mills and show off ....not all bullys are lazy is what im trying to show w/ my dogs...








here is another one of the dogs they took,,,,, If working out the dogs is wrong then im guity of that...


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

Once again thanks guys, i truly hope and pray that they are returned safely, 
man seeing their pictures again makes me feel real bad and more angry and what A.C is doing,,, I kinow what i am doing and I have witnesses and know for a fact that I love the dogs to the fullest, what i8s the point of owning these dogs if its just to keep them on the couch is all im saying.... 
PerformanceKnls
Staffdaddy thanks ....

Atheist try spending more time w/ your dog and enjoy every minute of it, I know I do each day,but have to wait till they sort all this out to be able to do it w/ my dogs...








I have thousands of pictures and can show practically every day of their life w/ them.
















My kids love and miss their dogs, the dogs are probably wondering what did they ever do to be locked down.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

man your yard must feel like a graveyard right now... i cant begin to imagine..


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> man your yard must feel like a graveyard right now... i cant begin to imagine..


Tell me about it, you can see how they would always loved to make a little mess by finding things and basically making the yard look a little messy but thats what happy dogs do, my yard is very functional and not like a page out of better homes and gardens lol at my brothers house he had the concretes slab w/ akc kennels but the elbows get blown out and I just prefer the dirt for my dogs they loose less hair in those areas...Its not the same at all...
I still wake uip at 5.a.m but there is only one dog to take care of, and I cant even work w/ him at my house where the mills are at because Im worried that A.c will happen to come right at the wrong time as always and take him away too... My brother needs to get his girl back as soon as possible she 
cannot be going through all this stress at this time and if only she would have been in her kennel she would still be at home, but for taking extra special care of the dog , they decide to take her too....
Its nothing nice to not have any say about your own dogs,,


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

I'm so sorry that this happened to you, and I'm ashamed that when you turn to the community for support Atheist slapped you in the face. I have seen your dogs posted on other forums and they always look beautiful and healthy. Marty has had some disagreements with members over the possibility of AC and HSUS targeting pit owners and unjustly taking dogs. Those doubters never listen to the voice of experience, and then, when it happens, some people just won't believe that you were unfairly targeted. The pit community just needs to keep their heads down, and their backs to the wall, if we don't support each other, than who will be there when we fall on bad times? I am truly sorry that this has happened and I pray that you get your babies back soon.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

FloorCandy said:


> I'm so sorry that this happened to you, and I'm ashamed that when you turn to the community for support Atheist slapped you in the face. I have seen your dogs posted on other forums and they always look beautiful and healthy. Marty has had some disagreements with members over the possibility of AC and HSUS targeting pit owners and unjustly taking dogs. Those doubters never listen to the voice of experience, and then, when it happens, some people just won't believe that you were unfairly targeted. The pit community just needs to keep their heads down, and their backs to the wall, if we don't support each other, than who will be there when we fall on bad times? I am truly sorry that this has happened and I pray that you get your babies back soon.


:goodpost: I agree completely. When someone is obviously in the wrong, and it's hurting our community, we STILL find ways to put things politely, mostly because its ignorance that causes it... But you have a good rep, and it's sad that we all strive towards one thing (the well being of our beloved breeds) and one out of every handful has to be a jackhole about something. FloorCandy is so right.. Who would be there for us when these atrocities occur? Youre doing everything you can to ensure that your dogs live their life to the fullest, and when someone calls you out saying otherwise, it's just down right rude.


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## 1503-bulls-henry (May 6, 2009)

FloorCandy said:


> I'm so sorry that this happened to you, and I'm ashamed that when you turn to the community for support Atheist slapped you in the face. I have seen your dogs posted on other forums and they always look beautiful and healthy. Marty has had some disagreements with members over the possibility of AC and HSUS targeting pit owners and unjustly taking dogs. Those doubters never listen to the voice of experience, and then, when it happens, some people just won't believe that you were unfairly targeted. The pit community just needs to keep their heads down, and their backs to the wall, if we don't support each other, than who will be there when we fall on bad times? I am truly sorry that this has happened and I pray that you get your babies back soon.


Thank you, i do post my dogs up quite a bit and take so many pictures of them doing their every day routine,the vet techs at the vets office love it when i take them over to weigh them and I always try and change peoples perception, Atheist is the least of my worries, right now im studying the dog laws same ones that a.c look up when they do stuff like this, they could have done a dehydration test to see if they were being deprived of water,but chose not to, i wonder why? the code im being charged with is pc 597(b)and so far going through it, thetre isnt anything that the dogs were not being taken care of right.thanks


StaffyDaddy said:


> :goodpost: I agree completely. When someone is obviously in the wrong, and it's hurting our community, we STILL find ways to put things politely, mostly because its ignorance that causes it... But you have a good rep, and it's sad that we all strive towards one thing (the well being of our beloved breeds) and one out of every handful has to be a jackhole about something. FloorCandy is so right.. Who would be there for us when these atrocities occur? Youre doing everything you can to ensure that your dogs live their life to the fullest, and when someone calls you out saying otherwise, it's just down right rude.


Thanks a lot.....hopefully I get real knoledgeable when it comes to dog laws so that Im able to defend myself ,and when this is all over I can be able to help out the community as well...


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