# Are Blue Pit bulls , NOT Pit bulls?



## SaliiiShark (Jul 13, 2012)

Okay !!! Well, this is going to go _*very*_ extreme, BUT Why do People say that Blue Pit bulls not Pit bulls? Like sure I understand that they are very overbred due to ignorant people claiming they are rare but Weren't blue paul terriers *bred* with bulldogs to create Pit bulls?

And then my next question will be :
If pedigrees were very secret and dogs weren't bred for color but more for strength or w.e. then *WHY* would they breed those two for no concern?

and Please take a look at the second paragraph on this website --> http://ezinearticles.com/?Facts-On-Blue-Pitbulls&id=459091

I'm very confused but please tell me everything you can !
This is making me worried !

and here is a picture of a blue paul terrier 









^ It looks much similar to the American Pit bull terrier


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Nononono No! This Trevor whatever is full of shit. And blue Paul was a blue game dog. I have no info on blue Paul terriers.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I think a huge problem is the wording and what you believe and if the person believes the same thing as you.

For instance I believe there is only one pit bull, the APBT. The breeders of the APBT did NOT breed for Blue and when the black dog had a diluted color appearing blue, these dogs were killed. therefore blue GAME BRED APBT are very rare. There are not many at all because they were not allowed to grow and mature. I do NOT think American Staffodshire Terriers are the same things as APBT. there are TONS of BLUE American Staffodshire Terriers and TONS of Blue American Bully's since the AmStaff was one of the founding lines of that breed. 

So there are very very few blue pit bulls but the color blue in itself is NOT rare, they could be just incorrectly registered as pit bulls when their bloodlines show them as a different breed. That's why i say it depends on what you believe to be true. Do you call ANY dog with a blocky head a pit bull? or do you understand there are multiple breeds that get incorrectly lumped together as one term: pit bull.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

ames said:


> I think a huge problem is the wording and what you believe and if the person believes the same thing as you.
> 
> For instance I believe there is only one pit bull, the APBT. The breeders of the APBT did NOT breed for Blue and when the black dog had a diluted color appearing blue, these dogs were killed. therefore blue GAME BRED APBT are very rare. There are not many at all because they were not allowed to grow and mature. I do NOT think American Staffodshire Terriers are the same things as APBT. there are TONS of BLUE American Staffodshire Terriers and TONS of Blue American Bully's since the AmStaff was one of the founding lines of that breed.
> 
> So there are very very few blue pit bulls but the color blue in itself is NOT rare, they could be just incorrectly registered as pit bulls when their bloodlines show them as a different breed. That's why i say it depends on what you believe to be true. Do you call ANY dog with a blocky head a pit bull? or do you understand there are multiple breeds that get incorrectly lumped together as one term: pit bull.


:goodpost: what she said!

I also agree with Redog that the dog pictured is not a Blue Paul Terrier.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

yes there is some propaganda that says the blue paul made the cross to make the pit bull terrier just like their is propaganda that says the bull terrier created the pit bull terrier.. 

Game bull terriers created the bull terrier and later became known as American Pit Bull Terriers. Blue Paul were a slang word given to the bulldogs taggin along with scotts and the term goes back to the spanish pirates who had blue pauls on their ship a type of war dog that was bulldogish and bandog in size. Blue Pauls may have won a match and been enrolled as American Pit Bull Terrier into the AKC in the early days however the proof is in the pudding look at your pedigree. The pedigrees behind the AMerican Pit Bull Terrier go back to 1750s in some cases(Old Family).


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

:rofl: thanks you Stan!


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> yes there is some propaganda that says the blue paul made the cross to make the pit bull terrier just like their is propaganda that says the bull terrier created the pit bull terrier..
> 
> Game bull terriers created the bull terrier and later became known as American Pit Bull Terriers. Blue Paul were a slang word given to the bulldogs taggin along with scotts and the term goes back to the spanish pirates who had blue pauls on their ship a type of war dog that was bulldogish and bandog in size. Blue Pauls may have won a match and been enrolled as American Pit Bull Terrier into the AKC in the early days however the proof is in the pudding look at your pedigree. The pedigrees behind the AMerican Pit Bull Terrier go back to 1750s in some cases(Old Family).


Yep..

All you need to know is already there, the problem with seeking information is it is only as valuable and reputable as the source.. Blue paul lsying thr foundation, lmao havent heard that crap in a while


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

That link was pure garbage. Most of the people you see online advertising "Blue Pits" are breeding Ambullies with UKC papers that say APBT.


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## SaliiiShark (Jul 13, 2012)

Why would they be killed?


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## doughboi (Nov 10, 2012)

Ok I wanna where did amstaffs come from was these dogs basically apbt bt bc of AKC not wanting to recognize APBT as PITBULLS they changed th name to American Staffordshire Terrier ok isn't that the same dog just a little bigger don't these dogs all have same traits?Oh and I'm not talking about these so called bully amstaff mastiff breed looking dogs


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> yes there is some propaganda that says the blue paul made the cross to make the pit bull terrier just like their is propaganda that says the bull terrier created the pit bull terrier..
> 
> Game bull terriers created the bull terrier and later became known as American Pit Bull Terriers. Blue Paul were a slang word given to the bulldogs taggin along with scotts and the term goes back to the spanish pirates who had blue pauls on their ship a type of war dog that was bulldogish and bandog in size. Blue Pauls may have won a match and been enrolled as American Pit Bull Terrier into the AKC in the early days however the proof is in the pudding look at your pedigree. The pedigrees behind the AMerican Pit Bull Terrier go back to 1750s in some cases(Old Family).


Is this the Bull-and-Terrier(small/agile) cross you are referring to? I realize the the history is murky and few theories exist. Original bulldog? etc.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Saint Francis said:


> Is this the Bull-and-Terrier(small/agile) cross you are referring to? I realize the the history is murky and few theories exist. Original bulldog? etc.


In my opinion based on what has been left, the foundation that paved the way is one dog, the bull baiter formed off of original Bulldog which genetically is one of the same dating back to the old world war dogs and war mastiffs.. The original Bandog if you will and original Bulldog, gentically not much different and old pictures of these animals are very similar only not in size.. Ifi was on my computer id pull up some pictures asto what im talking about, i know stan and i have had this conversation before on the Dane, English Dogge, Danish hound Bulldog topics on a thread of mine but forget which, ill have to link it tomorrow since im at workuntil 930p today.

Regardless, you also have individual lines that introduced outside genetics as part of their breeding programs however if you want to keep it simple, thats it in a nutshell.

The amstaff and apbt are genetically from the same roots. However similarities stop there as purpose and functions instilled in both are polar opposites..


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## SaliiiShark (Jul 13, 2012)

They are bred separately because of the AKC and UKC papers but AKC didn't want Amstaffs because of dog fighting and AKC is more of a showdog kennel club and UKC is more of a working kennel club. But in my opinion I just think they are the same thing except they look more different and are bred separate JUST because of the papers lol c:


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Saint Francis said:


> Is this the Bull-and-Terrier(small/agile) cross you are referring to? I realize the the history is murky and few theories exist. Original bulldog? etc.


 The man Hinks, got his all white pups and some all red from a litter that went on into the APBT strain on this side of the ocean at the same time. He show bred his dogs and the propaganda of the bull terrier well is just that. Because dog names were being changed people who wanted to show their dogs could have no [] affiliation and many were coming to America; propaganda builds a lot of tributary truths that are all really one river much like the Amazon. The confusion is the slang terms applied to the dogs, as we all have seen Colby and ConFeely Game Bull Terriers.. which was just slang term for the dogs. Colby, Lightener, and other old timers we see referred to them as bulldogs in the common tongue. Unless it was a Ch then they'd use the term Pitbull, just by common tongue.

The original bulldog from England is the Bull and Terrier as we know it to be; the oldest from England, Ireland, and before they arrived they're were spanish bulldogs already here (Florida/Alabama by way of Colombus times) this would be the old family of bulldogs that were large and red because they were direct decendants of the fighting dog of Gaul. (which is why Eddington did what he did, which a whole different story) .. The Confusion is to some in that old world depending on your language and region is what you called the dog. OFRN is the oldest strains that were already here blended with Colbys oldest strains. OF are the dogs that go back pre colby and there are a few, ironically from the south alabama florida area and were more bulldog in dna factor than irish or even the english dogs. Between books and pedigrees you can see where they all merge and diverge.

yes the original bull and terrier is the original bulldog the english version as teh original bulldog of england was the pit bulldog that when inbred created the pit terrier that went back into the pit bulldog and became the Bull and Terrier the wide spread bulldog. Old Family goes back to Spanish dogs they had no terrier or fastlane .. they were all bulldog and game to the core.

its simple.. what is fastlane today was terrier back then. Terrier doesn't even mean to tear the ground rather it means it has tenacity. To those back when in england and early settlers they knew the meaning of terrier as tenacity its the under educated populous and propagand that changes how we understand the meaning of words. The first terriers came from the fighting bulldog inbred and they bred those lil terriers to everything to create other forms of terriers. 16th century to 18th century late in the 18th early 19th century "game" replaced terrier in the reference of how we use the lingual term "Game" today. SIMPLY they used Terrier to show the dog had tenacity and many cases there is NO terrier blood in the strain or even the dogs. One more function term, that people get confused with breed term.

irish dogs were light fastlane thus extreme terrier type dogs, English dogs were fast lane bulldogs that like todays APBT could be bred to go more terrier or more bulldog. A lot of dead game dogs are more bulldog and a lot of kill dogs are more terrier. Take this and compare to your fastlane and dead game dogs and kill dogs. Compare these dogs size and structure to early game bull and terriers of JP Colbys day and before. The best are the perfect 50/50, just like today a 50/50 working/fastlane cross 

Those genes of those OF dogs from the south well they are strong and altered everything they touched back in the day thus all the crosses and reverence to the OF strain.

Prime example is Gr Ch Banjo.. Someone honored the old family blood they gatherd from Carver and plugged the pieces in, in all the right places. This is a prime example of an original bulldog. 
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [90] :: COY'S BANJO (5XW)

Follow the ped back to foundation.. There is some OLD blood in this dog.

blue pauls were dogs associated with the scotts as they immigrated(but they did't immigrate with dogs to different from england or ireland) and before them the spanish pirates. Ironic.. again the Spanish. So see there are hints of truth in all the bull propaganda however without a keen eye to pedigree and historical research most will just be muck. Most likely it was a APBT bandog cross. Something with such a legend should have scottish or spanish people who have been breeding the blue paul for some time. There isnt. Its a concept term at most associated with a dog of the past to give a scatterbred dog merit.


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## SaliiiShark (Jul 13, 2012)

Could you _please_ give me more information towards this? I kinda believe your theory lol


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

IF it can be said it has been said;.. if you know how to look up dogs and follow their pedigrees do so.. What you also need to do is read the vintage APBT books; all you can get. Colby, Stratton, Stevens, Hammonds, Rocca, Faron, Fleig, etc.. IF you got Lou Colbys Book, and two stratton books doesnt matter pick two, and Stevens book NOW RE RELEASED! then you will have 3 great reads and with reading pedigrees understand exactly how all the pieces fit together. The more you read the more you reveal. Build your library, and every time I read a book Ive already read I discover something else I've looked over that make radical sense. like an AHA! moment. 

Knowledge is best when learned through ones best effort; otherwise its just an opinion. Even though books are generally well collected and proven opinions. What they offer is an insight to experience. You cannot beat experience.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

That fact that "blues" are the dogs that primarily fill up the shelters should speak volumes about their quality.
All those pretend-a-bulls seem to do is fool fools into believing they are Pit Dogs.
Which is a joke for those of us in the know regarding ApBT's.

My credit, however goes out to those who have "blue's" and know the facts.
If any dogs in relation to the ApBT should be called "pet bulls" the blues are the ones.
Just don't tell all those "Uncle Tom's" out there with their gold and fancy cars that, LOL.
They HATE the truth.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Goemon said:


> That fact that "blues" are the dogs that primarily fill up the shelters should speak volumes about their quality.
> All those pretend-a-bulls seem to do is fool fools into believing they are Pit Dogs.
> Which is a joke for those of us in the know regarding ApBT's.
> 
> ...


Gold toothed gangstas I tell ya!! You got me laughing G


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> IF it can be said it has been said;.. if you know how to look up dogs and follow their pedigrees do so.. What you also need to do is read the vintage APBT books; all you can get. Colby, Stratton, Stevens, Hammonds, Rocca, Faron, Fleig, etc.. IF you got Lou Colbys Book, and two stratton books doesnt matter pick two, and Stevens book NOW RE RELEASED! then you will have 3 great reads and with reading pedigrees understand exactly how all the pieces fit together. The more you read the more you reveal. Build your library, and every time I read a book Ive already read I discover something else I've looked over that make radical sense. like an AHA! moment.
> 
> Knowledge is best when learned through ones best effort; otherwise its just an opinion. Even though books are generally well collected and proven opinions. What they offer is an insight to experience. You cannot beat experience.


Read a book? LOL Does the younger generation even know what a book is? Aren't all truths found on the internet? LOL It's a shame really.


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## SaliiiShark (Jul 13, 2012)

Saint Francis said:


> Read a book? LOL Does the younger generation even know what a book is? Aren't all truths found on the internet? LOL It's a shame really.


I'm part of the young generation being 13 years old and yes I do know what books are :thumbsup:

I been dreaming of having a Pit bull since I was 8 because I lived in Miami and the discrimination I seen what just so sad... 
I've seen a dead ex-fighting Pit bull with bullet holes on the side of the road.. 
I've seen a Pit bull that was *PURE * bones and skins in the Miami dade Animal Shelter walking in from neglect..
I've seen a Pit bull *attack* my aunt's chihuahua crushing the dog's ear cartilage and slamming her against the fence...
And Here I am , One of the small percentage of the human population that actually loves the entire breed and will prove people that they are *NOT* bad dogs and that *NO DOG* is unpredictable and each and everyone of them will always give Body languages...

and I have been researching ever since I was 8 to *Prove* society that Pit bulls aren't what the media thinks.

It's ashame that *crap* I seen on the internet that just makes me want to :hammer:.....


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

13 .. huh? well my son is 13 .. He's read all my books and has tried to like different breeds but understands now why we're bulldog people. Other dogs just don't get it done like a bulldog. He loves the stratton library as much as I do and has more years to learn from them and from me both my folleys and my advancments. Being 13 you have this same opportunity. Ask for knowledge when asking for gifts; good books are spendy and gain value in time. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders if you can understand junk from truth and if the blue paul was just a simple question. Remember dogs were named for region, and function.. True working dogs traditional in form are the best dogs no matter the breed. Its just American Pit Bull Terriers can whip any dog at what it was bred for and then whip the dog when he's done.. (Howard Heinzl) memorize the vitage APBT library and gain all the book knowledge and experience possible, have your folks take you on road trip and go check out some kennels or yards.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

Firehazard said:


> 13 .. huh? well my son is 13 .. He's read all my books and has tried to like different breeds but understands now why we're bulldog people. Other dogs just don't get it done like a bulldog. He loves the stratton library as much as I do and has more years to learn from them and from me both my folleys and my advancments. Being 13 you have this same opportunity. Ask for knowledge when asking for gifts; good books are spendy and gain value in time. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders if you can understand junk from truth and if the blue paul was just a simple question. Remember dogs were named for region, and function.. True working dogs traditional in form are the best dogs no matter the breed. *Its just American Pit Bull Terriers can whip any dog at what it was bred for and then whip the dog when he's done.. * (Howard Heinzl) memorize the vitage APBT library and gain all the book knowledge and experience possible, have your folks take you on road trip and go check out some kennels or yards.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost: i especially like the blue part :rofl:


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

it depends on school of thought. im old school. its not an apbt until its earned the right. apbt was never ment to be a dog breed, it was a title a dog could earn after becoming a champion in the pit. hell you couldnt even register your dog until it hit champ status.

theres plenty out there to back that up. look at a lot of the bird dogs in some of them pictures.

pit dogs had 1 creed " it aint shit until its proven".


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

zohawn said:


> it depends on school of thought. im old school. its not an apbt until its earned the right. apbt was never ment to be a dog breed, it was a title a dog could earn after becoming a champion in the pit. hell you couldnt even register your dog until it hit champ status.
> 
> theres plenty out there to back that up. look at a lot of the bird dogs in some of them pictures.
> 
> pit dogs had 1 creed " it aint shit until its proven".


:thumbsup: :cheers: you know I agree 100%: dont you know I was waiting to spring that on em? :rofl: thats common sense to real bulldog people. It tends to be a bit much for greenhorns to take in. Hahahaha..


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Saint Francis said:


> Gold toothed gangstas I tell ya!! You got me laughing G


I kid you not SF! LOL
I saw a dude from "da ghetto" bragging to a bunch of people about his 120# Blue Bull, LOL.
Well, I hadn't seen him in a year so he must have forgot something....
Like the first time he saw me walking one of my dogs....
He thought my boy was rather small, though well built...could bounce a quarter off his belly.
He had in his ride a big bully looking mutt, no papers and told me he had the real deal...
Long story short, my little guy sent his big guy turning away quick!! Tail between the legs!! LOL
And my boy didn't make a sound, LOL.

Point: Most those idiots judge by looks alone and think they can "make" their dogs "tough." LOL


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

:rofl: that's funny!


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## Wallies_momma (Oct 30, 2012)

zohawn said:


> it depends on school of thought. im old school. its not an apbt until its earned the right. apbt was never ment to be a dog breed, it was a title a dog could earn after becoming a champion in the pit. hell you couldnt even register your dog until it hit champ status.
> 
> theres plenty out there to back that up. look at a lot of the bird dogs in some of them pictures.
> 
> pit dogs had 1 creed " it aint shit until its proven".


Deffinitly going to agree with that. I've always thought a "pit bull" was a dog who performed and did well in the "pit" hence the name. Not what "papers" say someone has even.


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## SaliiiShark (Jul 13, 2012)

Firehazard said:


> 13 .. huh? well my son is 13 .. He's read all my books and has tried to like different breeds but understands now why we're bulldog people. Other dogs just don't get it done like a bulldog. He loves the stratton library as much as I do and has more years to learn from them and from me both my folleys and my advancments. Being 13 you have this same opportunity. Ask for knowledge when asking for gifts; good books are spendy and gain value in time. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders if you can understand junk from truth and if the blue paul was just a simple question. Remember dogs were named for region, and function.. True working dogs traditional in form are the best dogs no matter the breed. Its just American Pit Bull Terriers can whip any dog at what it was bred for and then whip the dog when he's done.. (Howard Heinzl) memorize the vitage APBT library and gain all the book knowledge and experience possible, have your folks take you on road trip and go check out some kennels or yards.


Bulldogs are amazing though, They are so powerful and strong but there are many being overbred to be sloppy lazy dogs instead of being those hard working athletic dogs that they used to be

Have We Overbred Bulldogs? | Cesar Millan

^^^^^^ 
Some people may not like Cesar Millan, *BUT * that is a pretty good link


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

If foundation of creation was all that determined a breed than that is all there would be.. For instance, there is a reason the BMC (Black Mouth Cur) is not considered an APBT or a Bulldog for that matter, even though its foundation Curs..

Function is all there is, without it look at the AKC for your examples of when removed.. Are these the same animals their name suggests? Big hell no buddy.

The irony in "Blues" is that traditional stock is not bred for color rather ability, though the color "blue" has been thought of as a cur.. Cold dog, useless for a matching dog.. Useless for traditional intended use. If it is confusing, take a look at a high end Bulldog.. Look at a "blue" dog bred similarly, however just so happens to be. Set 'em loose on prey, see what comes of it.. Not easy, do some deer or brute boar known for killing hounds, look at your big cats or your wolves. A legal challenge depending on your area, THIS sums it all up in a nutshell. I've never ran across a "blue" dog that had the same mentality, will and ability as not and for reason, genetics. VERY VERY rare do you read or hear through history otherwise, however there is ALWAYS one that had done greater all around.


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

SaliiiShark said:


> Bulldogs are amazing though, They are so powerful and strong but there are many being overbred to be sloppy lazy dogs instead of being those hard working athletic dogs that they used to be
> 
> Have We Overbred Bulldogs? | Cesar Millan
> 
> ...


I think they're talking about fake bulldogs hahaha I kid I kid. but I think they mean olde bulldogs, french bulldogs, english bulldogs, etc. When most people think of the term bulldog those are the breeds that come to mind and to those breeds the article refers.


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