# what to feed



## petespoiled (Jun 4, 2011)

ive been feeding my dogs diamond extreme athelte,they have been doing well on it, i was thinking of switching them to totw roasted fowl.. the diamond gives them awful gas..lol. is anyone feeding totw?.. what are your thoughts.. i know there are better foods, but these are what readily avaliable

thank you


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

petespoiled said:


> ive been feeding my dogs diamond extreme athelte,they have been doing well on it, i was thinking of switching them to totw roasted fowl.. the diamond gives them awful gas..lol. is anyone feeding totw?.. what are your thoughts.. i know there are better foods, but these are what readily avaliable
> 
> thank you


 I am .. its good food , but the gass isnt gonna go away. I think tis more a bulldog trait than anything ! No matter what i feed em i got the wonderful stink of " bulldog butt"


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## petespoiled (Jun 4, 2011)

lol.. i know the feeling.


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## NateDieselF4i (Sep 14, 2010)

I feed ToTW sierra mountain to Kane. He's been on it since 7 weeks (he's about 11 months now). Although I am about to change him to Orijen Regional Red and try that out for a while. Not that he's had any problems on ToTW I think its a great food, and highly recommend it to anyone. 

The gas very well could go away with a different food. I fed Kane some "gooberlicious" real peanut butter treats one time. Was the most awful week and a half of my life.

I was using them as training treats because they were soft and easy to break into small pieces. Took me a little while to make the connection of what it was, but as soon as he stopped taking them the gas went away thank God.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

TOTW is owned by Diamond foods, personally i'm not the biggest "fan" of Diamond products.. When i have more time i'll post why but in short the quality of their ingredients are low end and the factory here in SC is horrible.. Although TOTW is a step up from Diamond i personally wouldn't feed it, if your on a budget though its worth the shot.. All dogs are different when it comes to feeds and you may have a pretty good success rate.

Personally i recommend Evo or Orijen for working dogs, nonworking dogs Acana is normally what i recommend.. Kirkland is decent for the money as well, quality is fair and especially for the price range its a pretty good feed.. I would feed Kirkland over TOTW and the price is about the same.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

I feed TOTW as do most of my friends and I've not heard of or had any issues with it. IMO, TOTW is comparable to Acana in quality.

Diamond has had issues in the past with their foods and recalls, but they also corrected those with new measures. Here's a basic rundown of what happened with the recalls:

_Any dog food company that uses any grain in their kibble can end up with mycotoxin (alfatoxin is one of several) contamination in their food. The only way to prevent mycotoxin contaminated food from getting to the stores is to test the finished product as well as the incoming raw material (which Diamond does now). The reason for this is raw gains come in by the tractor trailer load and the moldy grain (certain molds produce the mycotoxins) will have come from a small section of the field and will therefore be confined to a small section of the load. Samples of the load are taken and tested, if the sampling method did not find the moldy section in the load then it will pass the incoming tests and the grain will be used in making the dog food. Testing the finished product as well as the raw materials is the result of recall and the realization that the incoming tests were insufficient. I wonder how many manufactures are testing their finished dog food. I don't believe Diamond had cross contamination of alfatoxin; I believe you are thinking about the Menu Foods adulterated gluten (melamine) recalls.

Dog food with no grain will be risk free for mycotoxin contamination._

Even though Diamond is the parent company, you can consider TOTW as a sort of subsidiary of them, as the TOTW is made in different factories from the other Diamond food. I've never been scared of the recalls for other Diamond products affecting TOTW and its quality. The thought of feeding Kane substandard food makes me cringe.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

we currently also feed extreme athlete and luckily have no issue with gas unless our older dog gets into tinis bowl. but we used totw the high prairie formula and was more than happy with it just doesn't fit our current budget.


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## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

I feed my dogs whatever Kibble is on sale cheap and various table scraps.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I feed grain free only six star premium feeds I have used EVO, Innova, and am now using Wilderness I have had excellent results with all of them. The wilderness is a little new but so far I have noticed no negative changes since weaning them over from EVO.

Here is a good site that reviews dog feeds and updates regularly you don't really want to go below a 5 star feed if you can help it. Raw would always be your best way to go however if you do not have the time to prepare meals and have not done your research than you want to go with a 5 star or better feed. Make sure you watch your dog closely some dog's do well on one feed while another may not. I have found that a high quality grain free feed is the BEST way to go which ever one you choose. Take a look through this site.

Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

"Another way of looking at is if you are spending $30 on a 40lbs bag lets say, after we take out manufacture and company you bought it's profit, we are left with say $25. (which is a very low profit % considering) Now lets take out another $1 for the cost of materials of bag, print, etc. $24 dollars is whats left.

Now lets divide $24 and 40lbs, that is roughly $0.60 per 1lbs of dog food. That is not a high amount of money going into the quality of ingredients, which reality is far less impressive. When i worked at a local pet store we carried Diamond products, the cost per bag for the store was $18.00 per 40lbs bag of regular Diamond, Diamond naturals was around $22.00, the actual cost of these were around $28 to $34 dollars depending on what you got. Now of that lets say a middle ground of $20, you figure the the company is at very minimal making $2.00 off each bag, every company is in for profit. So we are left with $18 which in return leaves around .45 cents for ingredients per pound of dog food.

Now lets look into a higher quality just for comparison, lets just say $70 dollars for a 29.7lbs bag of Evo. Using the same % for all intensive purposes; $70 - $7 (for both manufacture and company profit, used $5 originally) we are left it $63 which equals $2.12. Now reality is that figure is probably much closer to $1.25 or so but you get the idea.

Some of the highest quality foods are going to be in your range of $1.75 per pound, which if you consider when mass produced the difference between a .50 cent per pound and a $1.20 per pound is HUGE."

The above is copy and pasted from another post i have made.. IMO TOTW is not on the same level as Acana, rather an in between lower quality and higher quality feeds.. Its decent on a budget but that is about it.. Also unless they changed it, TOTW used to be made in the same facility as Diamond just as Acana is made in the same factory as Orijen.. It wouldn't make sense for the two feeds owned by the same company to be made in different facilities but i may be wrong if they recently changed this.. Its not like it was a merger, TOTW has always been owned under Diamond.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

One thing you have to remember though is not all products from the same brand maker's are of the same quality. You have to look at each product individually and it's ingredients. You can't lump all TOTW formulas into the same category because each formula is different that is why some of them rank higher than others. If your going to feed Taste of the Wild I would go with their High Prairie Canine Formula which is also grain free.


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## NateDieselF4i (Sep 14, 2010)

KM - you've posted your ingredient / profit comparison many times lately and while I see what you're getting at, it is quite misleading. 

This basically says that the most expensive product out there will be the best. And while I think that in life you usually get what you pay for this sort of rating system is inherently flawed. Unless you have very specific knowledge of manufacturing costs, ingredient contracts, and profit allocation breakdown for each and every product your system is far too general. 

Granted higher quality ingredients will raise the cost of manufacturing, thus the final price of goods produced, but you're totally ignoring things such as, marketing, packaging, what their actual gross margin is on each different bag or product. 

I could take an exact replica of lets say ToTW formula give it a nice shiny impressive bag, an aggressive marketing campaign and charge $90 per 30pound bag and according to you I would now have the best product on the market. Obviously a grain free, quality protein source food is going to cost more than some filler filled product but I think this is about as far as you can get with the food costs more so its better rating system. 

Please don't take that as an attack, there is a certain logic to your system, but I've seen this quoted and requoted and people shouldn't take it as an exact science.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

After the food recalls, Diamond switched TOTW to factories where it was made exclusively, without the (slight) possibility of cross-contamination and maintain the quality of the food.

Out of curiosity, KM, why do you prefer Kirkland over TOTW? They're both made under the Diamond company name?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

NateDieselF4i said:


> KM - you've posted your ingredient / profit comparison many times lately and while I see what you're getting at, it is quite misleading.
> 
> This basically says that the most expensive product out there will be the best. And while I think that in life you usually get what you pay for this sort of rating system is inherently flawed. Unless you have very specific knowledge of manufacturing costs, ingredient contracts, and profit allocation breakdown for each and every product your system is far too general.
> 
> ...


Granted you are right there is quite a bit more to it however most people are not going to want to go into every single detail of marketing and manufacturing just to find a good kibble.. I used to work at a whole seller and dog food distributor for a few years so i know a bit more about it than most. Do i know everything about it? Probably not.

Generally as you have just said you get what you pay for, higher ingredients equals higher quality which turns over higher price.. Not always the case as mark ups, production cost, etc can take that $80 bag of food down to the level of a lesser quality. Generally i have found this happens often to those that are under your "pet store brands" meaning foods carried under PetSmart, PetCO, etc as the demand for supply and often ridiculous contracts can drive any product up in price when in the end that product is not worth the price you paid..In most cases.

My OP may not be exact science, and i do agree with you on that as there is quite a bit of information still unaccounted for.. It is put in a basic way for anyone to understand the point behind it and to make them think. No matter how you view it a $20 for 40lbs is not going to be any where near the quality of that $80 for 30lbs.. Granted that two extremes but it does show a basic point i think everyone should understand.


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## petespoiled (Jun 4, 2011)

sadie, i checked out the web site you posted . i was surprised to see where some of the foods i thought were good ended up in the rating system. i know there are better foods that cost about the same, but i live in a small town, not alot of choices. im gonna try totw prairie formula. 

thank you for the help


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## petespoiled (Jun 4, 2011)

km, i understand your point a view, and what your trying to say.. i know there is better foods out there, but i have to find the best i can afford out what is available to me in my area. , but i do thank you for your response


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## Harley D (Mar 27, 2009)

I like natural balance the best

though if your dog has gas give him some plain organic yogurt. Should help clean that nasty smell up


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

I have been feeding TOTW High Prairie for several years now and have been happy with the results. If our budget allows in the future we will likely consider switching to Orijen but for the time being we have no desire to switch. 

Feed the best feed your budget allows you to.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

petespoiled said:


> km, i understand your point a view, and what your trying to say.. i know there is better foods out there, but i have to find the best i can afford out what is available to me in my area. , but i do thank you for your response


Some of the more budget friendly dog foods out there would be TOTW ($36 here locally for 30lbs), Acana ($50ish here locally for 28.7lbs), Go Natural ($55 per 30lbs i believe).. There are more than that, for the quality and the price TOTW is probably the best bang for the buck, though personally i view the food as not up to par on the best food out there nor is it the worst.. Its a good mid ground for someone on a budget.

Theres nothing wrong with feeding a dog not the best of the best, all dogs react differently so what one may perceive as the best may not be the best for their dog or needs.

Even though i do try to educate on the subject in the end not all dogs can handle the same food. There are many variables, the biggest thing i try to do is to show people more of whats involved and how not all dog food is created equal, not to take food on the cover alone.. What may appear to be healthy isn't always the case.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

I need to move. Totw up here is 50 bucks for a 30 lb bag lol

[/B]


KMdogs said:


> Some of the more budget friendly dog foods out there would be* TOTW ($36 here locally for 30lbs)*, Acana ($50ish here locally for 28.7lbs), Go Natural ($55 per 30lbs i believe).. There are more than that, for the quality and the price TOTW is probably the best bang for the buck, though personally i view the food as not up to par on the best food out there nor is it the worst.. Its a good mid ground for someone on a budget.
> 
> Theres nothing wrong with feeding a dog not the best of the best, all dogs react differently so what one may perceive as the best may not be the best for their dog or needs.
> 
> Even though i do try to educate on the subject in the end not all dogs can handle the same food. There are many variables, the biggest thing i try to do is to show people more of whats involved and how not all dog food is created equal, not to take food on the cover alone.. What may appear to be healthy isn't always the case.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Mach0 said:


> I need to move. Totw up here is 50 bucks for a 30 lb bag lol]


Same here. But I know someone who lives up in Canada, not sure where, and the cost of TOTW for them is $70 for a 30lb bag.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> I need to move. Totw up here is 50 bucks for a 30 lb bag lol
> 
> [/B]


$50 for TOTW?? Whoa! Way over priced.. Unless all dog food is that high there, thats the same price as Acana here and only $14 short of Evo.. You live up north though don't you? Prices are normally higher there for that kind of stuff.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Yea even diamond naturals is 35-40bucks for a 40 lb bag. The better the food, the more it is. Raw is cheaper lol up here.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Mach0 said:


> Yea even diamond naturals is 35-40bucks for a 40 lb bag. The better the food, the more it is. Raw is cheaper lol up here.


Wow! Diamond naturals here is $30 - $32 for 40lbs, regular Diamond is $20 - $26


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## petespoiled (Jun 4, 2011)

totw is 50.00 here to, i live in west tenn.. only place to get it is tractor supply


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## NateDieselF4i (Sep 14, 2010)

Yeah 30# ToTW around 50.

The 30# Orijen Regional Red I think is around 70.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

i think where i go diamon naturals runs you about 25ish but the extreme athlete puts you up to 32 and totw runs about 45-48 ish if i remember right


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Your very welcome petesspoiled I think that's a good choice.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Yeah KMdogs where do you live? I have never thought of TOTW as a cheap food and I have tried several grain frees and I love TOTW and liked the results. TOTW for a 30lb bag is over $55. Diamond for 40lbs is about $44 a bag. Kirkland is 26.99 for 40lbs.... yeah that is a life saver for my kennel! lol


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> Yeah KMdogs where do you live? I have never thought of TOTW as a cheap food and I have tried several grain frees and I love TOTW and liked the results. TOTW for a 30lb bag is over $55. Diamond for 40lbs is about $44 a bag. Kirkland is 26.99 for 40lbs.... yeah that is a life saver for my kennel! lol


SC those prices are insane!


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Maybe that's where the disconnect came from? I've never thought of TOTW as a cheap food either, but if I was used to your prices KM, I guess I would, lol.

What is Orijen for you, KM? It's 75 bucks up here for a 30lb.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

k8nkane said:


> Maybe that's where the disconnect came from? I've never thought of TOTW as a cheap food either, but if I was used to your prices KM, I guess I would, lol.
> 
> What is Orijen for you, KM? It's 75 bucks up here for a 30lb.


Orijen is anywhere from $70 - $85 depending on which one your looking at. Regional Red being the most expensive and the regular Adult being the cheapest.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

k8nkane said:


> Maybe that's where the disconnect came from? I've never thought of TOTW as a cheap food either, but if I was used to your prices KM, I guess I would, lol.
> 
> What is Orijen for you, KM? It's 75 bucks up here for a 30lb.


TOTW Is not a cheap food and is one of the better feeds out there it may not be EVO/Orijen but's it no where close to Eukenuba, Science Diet, Iams, those are garbage feeds. Many people use TOTW and have great results with it.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

BTW I was only paying 60.00 for a 28lb bag of EVO and some think it's better than Orijen. Just because something costs more does not make it better.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sadie said:


> TOTW Is not a cheap food and is one of the better feeds out there it may not be EVO/Orijen but's it no where close to Eukenuba, Science Diet, Iams, those are garbage feeds. Many people use TOTW and have great results with it.


I agree with you on the sense of TOTW is not on the same level as "grocery" brands. Its a good middle ground, though since TOTW has had a change some of their ingredients i know many people who have been feeding the kibble had started having issues and ended up switching. Not to say it has become a horrible food but its give and take.. Some have fed it and now they don't, others have started feeding it with success.

Maybe because i live so close to the SC factory is why it seems to be much cheaper here than around the country, though if people are paying $50 - $55 dollars a bag for TOTW, i would think about switching as that would put the feeds price range among higher quality feeds. It would no longer be considered a great budget feed. The ingredients look excellent when looking at the packaging or researching but just because a feed seems great doesn't mean the quality of the ingredients used are. Thats really my point.



Sadie said:


> BTW I was only paying 60.00 for a 28lb bag of EVO and some think it's better than Orijen. Just because something costs more does not make it better.


I also agree with this, feed price doesn't always equal better quality. Some feeds are over priced for what they are, others are reasonably priced for what your paying for. Theres a great deal to consider for someone if they really want to get in full detail.. Most don't.

Its a touchy subject regardless of how you see it, no one wants to feel like they are feeding horrible food to their dogs.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Well by my standards I won't feed anything under 6 stars but between 5-6 star feeds your getting your money's worth and your dog is certainly eating better than it would be had you put them on Ol Roy ect... I understand not everyone can afford to chuck up 60-85 for dog food especially when you have a yard full of dogs that's when Kirkland becomes a better choice for the budget without loosing quality. I remember when I owned my first dog I thought EUkenuba was top of the line creme de la creme dog food because that is what all the show people advertised. It wasn't until I started researching that I realized I could have bought a much better feed for the same price as I was paying for Eukenuba and that I might as well have been feeding them Ol Roy that's how bad Eukenuba is for your dog LOL.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

KM I know a lot of people who changed off EVO because of the Proctor and Gamble buy out. I think a lot of people feared the quality of the ingredients would change. I didn't notice any issues with EVO when my dog's were on it. But yeah I see what your saying and I agree with you it's a middle ground feed but it's not horrible either and I would rather give that to my dog than the other brands I mentioned.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sadie said:


> KM I know a lot of people who changed off EVO because of the Proctor and Gamble buy out. I think a lot of people feared the quality of the ingredients would change. I didn't notice any issues with EVO when my dog's were on it. But yeah I see what your saying and I agree with you it's a middle ground feed but it's not horrible either and I would rather give that to my dog than the other brands I mentioned.


Yep i know people that were on Evo that switched as well, a combination of that and also how Innova is now being carried at PetSmart people have feared the quality of Evo would change due to the supply and demand of of their Innova feed. Meaning the company would reduce overhead to keep up with production of other feeds under the company to keep profit high vs quality. Which so far, i haven't heard anything negative with Evo... Of course it is still "new" in terms of the buy out and the PetSmart situation i mentioned, the quality may keep to the original but it is more of a gamble now with Evo and really up in the air right now.

As it stands though i would still say Evo is top of the line, the buy out may mean nothing for the quality time will tell.


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