# White Rock bloodline-anyone have any info on it?



## babyshae (Jul 21, 2008)

If anyone knows of this bloodline and has any info please let me know. I have found a few pics of dogs with this bloodline but can't seem to find any actual info. From what I can see it looks like it's an amstaff bloodline-???


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## pitbulllover27870 (Jul 6, 2008)

yea they are amstaff.... White Rock AmStafs


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## MPRO112 (Aug 6, 2008)

Yes White Rock is mostly an AmStaff line, a pretty good one too...But because of dogs being dual registered with the UKC and AKC it is very possible for a APBT to have White Rock bloodlines on their pedigree somewhere.


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## babyshae (Jul 21, 2008)

Hey-thanks for the info. There is someone locally that's got a litter with white rock/york in their blood. I have of course heard of York(beautiful dogs!)but I had never heard of white rock before. Good to know it's a legite bloodline.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

Contact Carla the Kennel manager at Wht Rck kennels she is very knowledgeable.



> Good to know it's a legit bloodline.


 Yes, the Bloodline is a real one however, just be aware just because a dog may have a particular Bloodline in them along the pedigree somewhere it doesn't make it a good breeding or the breeders reputable. There are BYBs it seems within almost every bloodline out there sadly.


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## MPRO112 (Aug 6, 2008)

babyshae said:


> Hey-thanks for the info. There is someone locally that's got a litter with white rock/york in their blood. I have of course heard of York(beautiful dogs!)but I had never heard of white rock before. Good to know it's a legite bloodline.


York is also another one of those bloodlines that Ive seen go either way AmStaff or ABPT...They are nice looking dogs but they mosdef toe the line of the 2 different breeds and it really depends on the "other" lines in the dogs to determine if its a AmStaff or a Pittie...Does she have papers on the dogs? Do you know the other lines of the dogs? are they UKC registered? AKC reg? Dual Reg?


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## babyshae (Jul 21, 2008)

Not sure on the papers. I have not written these people to inquire about them I just saw an ad listed. I am not looking to buy-just wanted some info on the white rock line is all.


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

White Rock is a Dallas area kennel (near White Rock Lake ) that works with the RUFFIAN Bloodline of American Stafford Terrier. I don't know if they are still in business. They have not registered a litter with the AKC or the UKC in many years.


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

MPRO112 said:


> York is also another one of those bloodlines that Ive seen go either way AmStaff or ABPT...They are nice looking dogs but they mosdef toe the line of the 2 different breeds and it really depends on the "other" lines in the dogs to determine if its a AmStaff or a Pittie...Does she have papers on the dogs? Do you know the other lines of the dogs? are they UKC registered? AKC reg? Dual Reg?


Two different breeds? I don't know what you mean by that. Did you perhaps mean two separate branches on the same tree? I would agree with that.

The APBT & the AST share the same origins. In fact many may be surprised to find AST bloodlines in many of their Pit buddies. go back far enough in your pedigree and you may find a "HarWyn" or "White Rock" or "Woods" or "Ruffian" or "CJ" or going back even farther and spy upon a "Tonkawa" or "Rounders" or "X-Pert" or "Tacoma" and there are even more minor strains.

I know that many AST purists get a bit miffed when their dogs are called Pit bulls. I say forget not from whence you came.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

I think AmStaffs and APBTs are two different breeds. I mean yes, they came from the same dog, but that was 70 years ago. 70 years of breeding to two different standards. If the UKC and ADBA didn't single-reg AmStaffs as APBT, we wouldn't have this confusion. Because there generally is no confusion when you put a gamebred APBT next to an AmStaff. Both equally nice dogs, but different. That's why it's so frustrating to take an old-school APBT into the UKC ring and lose to AmStaffy dogs.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

I agree,two seperate breeds,but if your looking for a staff,white rock is a good line,jmo.
although it is always important to judge individual dogs rather than blood lines,or make your selection on the individual dog not the hype or name of the blood line,jmo.


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

bahamutt99 said:


> I think AmStaffs and APBTs are two different breeds. I mean yes, they came from the same dog, but that was 70 years ago. 70 years of breeding to two different standards. If the UKC and ADBA didn't single-reg AmStaffs as APBT, we wouldn't have this confusion. Because there generally is no confusion when you put a gamebred APBT next to an AmStaff. Both equally nice dogs, but different. That's why it's so frustrating to take an old-school APBT into the UKC ring and lose to AmStaffy dogs.


Perhaps it's a matter of semantics. My grandmother was French. I don't speak French. I've never been to France, I don't look or act French. Am I French?

I agree The lines have diverged. But really are they so dissimilar as to be unrelated? And if not then why the hostility of some when it is suggested. If so why can't it be debated without rancor? This last question is in response to a PM I received and not directed at you Bahamutt.


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## Mr. Bleezy (Apr 4, 2008)

Dog Days Kennel said:


> Perhaps it's a matter of semantics. My grandmother was French. I don't speak French. I've never been to France, I don't look or act French. Am I French?
> 
> I agree The lines have diverged. But really are they so dissimilar as to be unrelated? And if not then why the hostility of some when it is suggested. If so why can't it be debated without rancor? This last question is in response to a PM I received and not directed at you Bahamutt.


you are smart and that is going to be respected here. however your dealing with a body of pit enthusiast. don't worry, you and i will get along well. lol :woof:

keep it real!:love2:


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## roe1880 (Nov 8, 2008)

Hey dog day kennel.... I LIKE YOU...LOL. u speak with real big words... Hopefully you can get through some of the people here that still can't conceive the notion that the Am-Staff & APBT are still the same dog.....
If you start with a Puerto Rican fighter & mix him with a Puerto Rican pacifist, half their kids could be fighter's & the other half could be pacifist; then if you take either of the kids & they mate to another Puerto Rican that is neither of the 2 he is just a hard working regular joe shmoe, what do you get??? Please everyone choose a number:
1) A Great Puerto Rican FIGHTER.....
2) A great Puerto Rican PACIFIST.....
3) A hard working regular JOE SHMOE.....
4) ALL OF THE ABOVE....

Now mind you the Fighter could either be a boxer or a brawler...lol
After a few days I will tell you which one is correct (IMHO)


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

Dog Days Kennel said:


> Perhaps it's a matter of semantics. My grandmother was French. I don't speak French. I've never been to France, I don't look or act French. Am I French?.


It depends on where you ask that questions. If you make that statement here in the USA most would say that you are French. If you made that statement in France they'd laugh their a$$es off and call you an silly American. Same goes here. Call your AST a Pit Bull on an AST forum and most will say it is a Pit Bull. Call your AST a Pit Bull here and most will call you a silly French American. The AST's origins are from the APBT but after almost a century of separate breeding pools and breeding for different objectives they should be considered separate breeds. I'm not an AST hater at all, I've owned two AST's throughout the years and they have been very good dogs but I never considered them Pit Bulls. JMO

P.S. My little AST Tweak is off of Dr. Pasco's White Rock line.


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

roe1880 said:


> Hey dog day kennel.... I LIKE YOU...LOL. u speak with real big words... Hopefully you can get through some of the people here that still can't conceive the notion that the Am-Staff & APBT are still the same dog.....
> If you start with a Puerto Rican fighter & mix him with a Puerto Rican pacifist, half their kids could be fighter's & the other half could be pacifist; then if you take either of the kids & they mate to another Puerto Rican that is neither of the 2 he is just a hard working regular joe shmoe, what do you get??? Please everyone choose a number:
> 1) A Great Puerto Rican FIGHTER.....
> 2) A great Puerto Rican PACIFIST.....
> ...


I sense a trick question here!!

Since you have the components (genetics) of all the contributors then I would have to say 4) ALL OF THE ABOVE

Now to what degree the progeny would have the characteristics of the gene pool would depend on the combination of dominant alleles and recessive alleles.


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

Elvisfink said:


> It depends on where you ask that questions. If you make that statement here in the USA most would say that you are French. If you made that statement in France they'd laugh their a$$es off and call you an silly American. Same goes here. Call your AST a Pit Bull on an AST forum and most will say it is a Pit Bull. Call your AST a Pit Bull here and most will call you a silly French American. The AST's origins are from the APBT but after almost a century of separate breeding pools and breeding for different objectives they should be considered separate breeds. I'm not an AST hater at all, I've owned two AST's throughout the years and they have been very good dogs but I never considered them Pit Bulls. JMO
> 
> P.S. My little AST Tweak is off of Dr. Pasco's White Rock line.


Some good points.

Let me play the devils advocate. The accepted consensus is that the APBT and the AST are distinctly dissimilar due to many decades of breeding to separate objectives. In it's purest form, I concur. For example, I would consider a Colby or Sorrells dog as Pit in its purest form. However, how many of us here have what can be considered a "pure form" dog? Going back in your pedigree just three of four generations to find an AST contributor in your Pitty's resume' may amount to perhaps just 10 or 20 years. Is that enough separation to consider dissimulation? If not then how much separation is enough?

I know a couple of breeder associates that are enamored with the TNT line. They are all adamant that their dogs are APBT's. I would agree. Remember how the line started? That right folk's, the T-N-T Bloodline was started as Turpin blood when Stephanie Turpin took her 50% Watchdog 50% Eli (GR CH Art) female, Minter's Miss Sheeba, to a pure Ruffian (my kind of dog!) stud, Ch Noble's Blaze of Glory, to produce her foundation male Turpin's Blu Trouble.

It's just not so cut and dry is it?


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

Elvisfink said:


> It depends on where you ask that questions. If you make that statement here in the USA most would say that you are French. If you made that statement in France they'd laugh their a$$es off and call you an silly American. Same goes here. Call your AST a Pit Bull on an AST forum and most will say it is a Pit Bull. Call your AST a Pit Bull here and most will call you a silly French American. The AST's origins are from the APBT but after almost a century of separate breeding pools and breeding for different objectives they should be considered separate breeds. I'm not an AST hater at all, I've owned two AST's throughout the years and they have been very good dogs but I never considered them Pit Bulls. JMO
> 
> P.S. My little AST Tweak is off of Dr. Pasco's White Rock line.


Forgot to mention ...

I spoke to Carolyn Phelps of Cirkle C Ranch out Houston way yesterday. She is a friend of the family to Dr. Pasco of White Rock Kennel. She told me that the Pasco's had had a death in the family and that the kennel has been dissolved. It's sad to see such a kennel of exceptional repute no longer contributing to the cause.

P.S. Do you have pictures of Tweak posted?


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

That too bad, I've always liked Dr. Pasco's breeding philosophy. All his AST's had to be functional and if he got a few pretty one's to show so be it. Here's a few photos of Tweak. She's White Rock and Intrepid and was breed by Linda Cooper.


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

Very nice, Elvis. Nice rose prick ears too. Did they lay down naturally or did you have to glue them?


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

They are not unrelated. They are two different lines though. Two different strains of the original.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

I dont understand your posts dogdays,but i know this.
A amstaff and a game dog are two seperate breeds,now a duel reg dog,im not sure about that,hell,"David Wilson" calls that a american bully but i wouldnt put to much stock into that.
It would be so much better if the dogs actual breed name was a description of the work it does/did like it was/is intended to be.
Meaning this"If it works like a apbt,then its a apbt".jmo,breedings should be baised on performance temperment and health and nothing more,again,jmo,jmo.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

cane76 said:


> Meaning this"If it works like a apbt,then its a apbt".


Except if it's blue, right? HAHAHAHAHA

Sorry everyone, just couldn't resist


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

No,if it works and its blue then it's a working apbt also!
Now everyone get off my case about the blue issue,I'm over it.
I come in peace:}!
I'm far out numbered concerning the blue issue,and a continued battle over this topic will prove futile.
I'm throwing in the towel,waving the white flag,I stand by my views,but will not continue to fight this battle,guess i'm not computer game!


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

cane76 said:


> I dont understand your posts dogdays,but i know this.
> A amstaff and a game dog are two seperate breeds,now a duel reg dog,im not sure about that,hell,"David Wilson" calls that a american bully but i wouldnt put to much stock into that.
> It would be so much better if the dogs actual breed name was a description of the work it does/did like it was/is intended to be.
> Meaning this"If it works like a apbt,then its a apbt".jmo,breedings should be baised on performance temperment and health and nothing more,again,jmo,jmo.


SIGH!


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Dog Days Kennel said:


> SIGH!


nice retort "ddk",very thought provocking.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

cane76 said:


> No,if it works and its blue then it's a working apbt also!
> Now everyone get off my case about the blue issue,I'm over it.
> I come in peace:}!
> I'm far out numbered concerning the blue issue,and a continued battle over this topic will prove futile.
> I'm throwing in the towel,waving the white flag,I stand by my views,but will not continue to fight this battle,guess i'm not computer game!


I'm gonna send you a little blue pup for christmas! Aww common cane it's not the dog's fault breeder's do what they do with blue dogs I think you make good points on alot of things but blue dogs need love to


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

SadieBlues said:


> I'm gonna send you a little blue pup for christmas! Aww common cane it's not the dog's fault breeder's do what they do with blue dogs I think you make good points on alot of things but blue dogs need love to


I know,ive always said i liked "bluebulls" diesel,he's what i like in a dog,and he works,work your dogs and that speaks volumes and makes color irrelevant,don't work your dogs,breed for aesthetic
that the original breed was never intended for,looks,show,mass etc,then you'll have another breed after a few generations,a related breed,but a different breed such is the case with the amstaff.I mean all dogs came from wolfs,so how come all dogs aren't wolfs?If the amstaff apbt are the same dog logic is true in anyway.By the way i love amstaffs,but i can see the forest for the trees,and and a "Ginny York dog" and 'chinaman" are not the same breed,sorrycharlie[dog day kennels]contrast and compare if you will.
















The apbt's label was based on its job,not its purity of blood,dogs from England,cross bred dogs such as stormer and psycho were give ch titles as apbts in the 1990's,does that mean they are also amstaffs?
by your logic yes.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Do you consider today's amstaffs to be working dogs or just show dogs ? Or better yet what is a working dog in your opinion?


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

SadieBlues said:


> Do you consider today's amstaffs to be working dogs or just show dogs ? Or better yet what is a working dog in your opinion?


As a former and current AST owner I consider AST and to be honest most UKS PR dogs to be show only. With that said I don't feel there is anything wrong with these dogs I just don't find them very functional out side of the show ring. JMO


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Elvisfink said:


> As a former and current AST owner I consider AST and to be honest most UKS PR dogs to be show only. With that said I don't feel there is anything wrong with these dogs I just don't find them very functional. JMO


I agree with ya I think they are flashy good looking show dogs but I don't consider the AST in todays world working dogs. JMO


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

cane76 said:


> No,if it works and its blue then it's a working apbt also!
> Now everyone get off my case about the blue issue,I'm over it.
> I come in peace:}!
> I'm far out numbered concerning the blue issue,and a continued battle over this topic will prove futile.
> I'm throwing in the towel,waving the white flag,I stand by my views,but will not continue to fight this battle,guess i'm not computer game!


It's easy to misread you sometimes and we have had our differences for sure but that was well said. I suppose all of us that have blue dogs have gotten defensive in the past but the truth is most blue dogs are non-functional. There's no need to get upset at the statistics, if you have a blue dog that is good working stock then it doesn't really matter what other say about them.

Not computer game ....hahaha, me either. That sh#t gets old and has caused me not to frequent these boards as much.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

SadieBlues said:


> Do you consider today's amstaffs to be working dogs or just show dogs ? Or better yet what is a working dog in your opinion?


They have the potential to be working dogs if the breeder selects for working drives such as a high prey drive.I consider a working dog to be anything from a dog that effectively guards the family,property with confidence[there are no titles for real life situations,just harsh reality]A catch dog,police military,or sport such as weight pull or sch,even dog fighting[all though illegal and unethical]pp,the list goes on and on.
Basically a dog that has the physical attributes to work,a athletic dog,a dog that is not bred for mass and flash in the show ring or a dumbed down temperament.To believe you can not find working amstaffs is absurd,although it may be easier to find that stock in other countries such as Australia where the apbt is on a bsl list while the amstaff is not.
Tacoma was a working line of "ast" and there are photos in the book "gladiator dogs" of working amstaffs in Germany[sch,pp]although this book was published in the 90's.
Basically if you base your breeding program on function you'll get working stock,just cull hard.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

cane76 said:


> They have the potential to be working dogs if the breeder selects for working drives such as a high prey drive.I consider a working dog to be anything from a dog that effectively guards the family,property with confidence[there are no titles for real life situations,just harsh reality]A catch dog,police military,or sport such as weight pull or sch,even dog fighting[all though illegal and unethical]pp,the list goes on and on.
> Basically a dog that has the physical attributes to work,a athletic dog,a dog that is not bred for mass and flash in the show ring or a dumbed down temperament.To believe you can not find working amstaffs is absurd,although it may be easier to find that stock in other countries such as Australia where the apbt is on a bsl list while the amstaff is not.
> Tacoma was a working line of "ast" and there are photos in the book "gladiator dogs" of working amstaffs in Germany[sch,pp]although this book was published in the 90's.
> Basically if you base your breeding program on function you'll get working stock,just cull hard.


Well the reason why I said I don't believe amstaffs to be working dogs today is because most of the amstaffs I have seen have been show bred amstaffs that don't seem to fit the profile for a working dog body type wise. Do you think structure plays in a key role in working ability? I would like to see some of these amtaffs you consider working dogs just to see what they look like compared to your average show ast


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

SadieBlues said:


> Do you think structure plays in a key role in working ability? I would like to see some of these amtaffs you consider working dogs just to see what they look like compared to your average show ast


yes form follows function,meaning simply,a dogs build & drives must represent it's job,If the dog is not built for its intended function it simply wont get the job done.As for photos of working amstaffs there available i'll look for some.
Heres a link to some sch titled ast,of course there from italy and germany,
also figure all the dogs that are duel registered and hold titles of some sort,not true staffs in my eyes but on paper they are.
American Staffordshire Terrier: SCH 3 amstaff?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

cane76 said:


> yes form follows function,meaning simply,a dogs build & drives must represent it's job,If the dog is not built for its intended function it simply wont get the job done.As for photos of working amstaffs there available i'll look for some.
> Heres a link to some sch titled ast,of course there from italy and germany,
> also figure all the dogs that are duel registered and hold titles of some sort,not true staffs in my eyes but on paper they are.
> American Staffordshire Terrier: SCH 3 amstaff?


Thanks Cane You really are a nice guy I appreciate your help


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Its cool,check these out,these german dogs are titled big time,i'd enjoy owning one of these for sure,if you want a working staff,import is the way to go.
Home


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

cane76 said:


> Its cool,check these out,these german dogs are titled big time,i'd enjoy owning one of these for sure,if you want a working staff,import is the way to go.
> Home


I wouldn't mind having one of those dogs myself.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

got a question is ruffin and watchdog (old school) isnt' that kinda the whole one tree just dif. branch kinda BL? b/c i do searchs for o/s watchdog and that refference comes up.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

chic4pits said:


> got a question is ruffin and watchdog (old school) isnt' that kinda the whole one tree just dif. branch kinda BL? b/c i do searchs for o/s watchdog and that refference comes up.


Ruffian is An AST line Watchdog used to be a working apbt line now it's a bully line.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

Not all AmStaffs are fat lazy couch potatoes. Some show dogs can also work and are in great shape 

Sadly Lora of Hartagold is no longer with us (She was a great lady with a lot of knowledge), but some of her WHTRCK, Ruffian and Evergreen line dogs are prime examples of working AmStaffs

AKC/UKC CH, UCDX White Rock Tuffer Than Taffy, CDX, Can.CD, TT, SCT, CGC, OFA, CERF, DNA-P, ROH
click for her page:
Ch White Rock Tuffer Than Taffy

AKC/UKC CH,UWP, UAG1 Hartagold Yankee Rose,CD,TT,CGC,OFAg,OFAp,OFAc,PennHip,CERF, ROH
click for her page
Doodle

AKC CH/UKC Gr CH.,FAST"E", UCD, UAG1 Hartagold Standing Ovation, CD, OA, OAJ, NAP, 0JP, TT, SCT, CGC, OFA, CERF, DNA-VIP, ROH
click for her page
Ch Hartagold Standing Ovation

Some dogs with APBT only peds also have been bred to be just show dogs and are completely watered down in drive and working ability.

You can't lump all dogs and even all lines in one category or another. It depends a lot of which direction a breeder took things.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Patch-O-Pits said:


> Not all AmStaffs are fat lazy couch potatoes. Some show dogs can also work and are in great shape
> 
> Sadly Lora of Hartagold is no longer with us (She was a great lady with a lot of knowledge), but some of her WHTRCK, Ruffian and Evergreen line dogs are prime examples of working AmStaffs
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

There are a few reason I feel most AST’s are nonfunctional at this time. Starting in the late eighties AST’s and a lot of UKC PR dogs began to increase in size. The main reason for this increase was the larger dog were winning the beauty shows . So the beauty peddler's started breeding for increased size and mass while neglecting all other aspects of the dog. Next came all the patella problems. Knee problems are ramped in AST’s these days and if anyone tries to dispute they are liars! They are having the Vet do the patella surgery from the inside so it doesn’t’ show in the beauty pageant. Check out the inside of a great deal of AST’s rear legs for scares These oversize crippled dogs can barely move around the show ring.. As I state before Dr. Pasco really had some nice dogs because he wasn’t breeding for appearances. This also goes for Denis Wedel. For the last few years she really has only been breeding AST’s for agility and obedience. Denise's dogs are very sonud. I just wish more AST breaders would breed for soundness and not looks.


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

cane76 said:


> nice retort "ddk",very thought provocking.


I'm sorry, Cane.

It's just that I thought I had made it clear with my post to Elvis that I consider the APBT and the AST related not identical. I even gave an example with the TNT reference why I consider the two breeds related. I admit again, that long ago the lines began to diverge from one another.


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

OldFortKennels said:


> They are not unrelated. They are two different lines though. Two different strains of the original.


That's just what I mean!!


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## Dog Days Kennel (Nov 2, 2008)

SadieBlues said:


> Do you consider today's amstaffs to be working dogs or just show dogs ? Or better yet what is a working dog in your opinion?


Depends on the strain. Ruffian dogs are taller and leaner than the Tacoma, X-pert and even the California lines. Still, I would have to say the AST are primarily for show. That was the original intent.

A working dog is my 50lb McCaw decedent, Sage. She is one hell of a hog dog!


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

Folks just think of it this way... those who breed properly have dogs that are the total dog in overall health, structure, working ability/drive, movement, temperament, personality and follow the standard. 

Those who don't to me are BYBs and don't care much about the breed, and certainly are in it for cash & the fads that arise sadly.

Good breeders are far and few between in every breed it seems.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Not white rock but tacoma,this kennel seems to be breeding for the right reasons,although its hard to tell by just basing a opinion on what is said on a web site.
Welcome to Tacoma Amstaffs


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

I have been breeding the old Tacoma line of Amstaff since the late 70's 
with the goal of keeping the breed as functional and true to it's origins as 
possible. The casual observer will note the lack of show and obedience 
titles, and that is because I participate very rarely in shows or trials, 
although all my dogs get obedience training. Simply put, I have no interest 
in competing with my dogs in the show ring, nor do I put much value in show 
titles. It is very stressful (and dangerous)to bring a high drive dog into a 
situation where he is surrounded by other dogs, thus the dogs very seldom get 
put in that position. *I concentrate my efforts into breeding for 
intelligence, clear focused temperament, soundness, athletic type, and high 
drives. Although a showable specimen is whelped quite often, I do not select 
for it. I will overlook some minor faults in my breeding stock if the 
necessary intelligence, drive, and temperament is present.]*

that is whats writen on the home page,more staff breedsers should follow suit.


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