# Prong collar or harness??



## carbel25 (Feb 7, 2014)

Pros and Cons? 

Which do you all prefer?


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

For training, prong collar. For pulling, harness.
I use a flat buckle collar for Ecko, but he is already leash trained.


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## bigdogmom (Feb 9, 2014)

Depends on the dog. Some dogs are "soft" and the prong creates anxiety and/or reactivity.
For my own dogs I tend to use, in order:
Prong
Choke
Flat
Head collar

Yes I am a dog trainer and its currently taboo to admit that you use anything other than treatstreatstreats, but the fact is, all dogs are different and you have to meet the dog where they're at and use what works.

If you have never used a prong I highly suggest having a trainer show you how to use it properly. If it isn't fitted right and you aren't popping at the right times, its going to be just another useless tool.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I think it depends as well what your goal is. I use a combination positive and corrective training. My dog is petrified of flags but dislikes other dogs. I don't want to correct him from his fearful reaction to flags but could need the prong if another dog was out so he wouldn't choke himself out on a flat buckle before he was trained that behaviors isn't acceptable. Look for a good trainer who is knowledgable about many training tools and styles to help pick what's best for your dog.

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## carbel25 (Feb 7, 2014)

I am interested mainly for pulling, so that would make sense to use a harness. We are looking for a trainer with little luck. I would like to do at least one class (socialization) and some personal training.


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

use the tool that suits the job. some jobs need a little plastic hammer. some jobs need a 12 pound sledge hammer. just make sure you're using it properly and and you should have great results.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

If you got for a pulling, a prong will eventually work, but harness help the same way with less physical correction if you get a front facing harness. If you get the kind that clip on the back they will pull you down the street a hell of a lot easier than a flat buckle collar.

Here is a dog at the shelter I volunteer at. She has a martingale front facing harness. When i walk her I use 2 leashes one on the harness in the front and one attached to her collar. If she gets the right angle she could slip the harness and be off. Just to show you what style I mean, this is Buttercup (she is a doll)


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## carbel25 (Feb 7, 2014)

I just don't like the choking sound, I usually stop and make her sit. Honestly i have no clue what the right way of doing it is! I need training advice for that as well. Trying my best at finding one of those that isn't Petsmart


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Well here are 2 different examples of what I know. I am not a trainer so I will do my best to explain and take it for what you want lol They are basically the same thing, except one uses food and one uses corrections with or without food.

Before starting either your dog needs to learn to look at you. My dog is reactive, so i don't have time to waste giving a command, for my boy when I say his name I expect him to look at me. If you use a clicker or a word to mark correct behavior (I use both, but YES is my mark word). If you use a clicker, start by loading it up for your dog literally give treat then click (or YES! if no clicker). treat, click. treat, click. For like 20 or so treats. I use bits of string cheese and dehydrated liver. this gets them to associate the click with the reward. You do not want to bribe your dog, you want him to listen and then reward him. You need high value treats so your dog can smell them. After I would load the clicker up I Then I say my dogs name and wait for him to look me in the eye, then click and treat. wait for him to look away, say their name again, and when they look at your eye (NOT YOUR HAND WITH THE TREAT lol) you click and reward. DO that a few times a day and your dog will now look at you when you call his name.

For walking You would start the walk and when your dog got to the end of the lead, you change direction, go the opposite way and if he got to the end of the lead again, you turn around and go back the way you came. You may literally only get 50 feet the first few walks after being outside for 30 minutes lol. The key is to not give up and let them pull. You MUST last longer then they can lol

With a harness, the dog is used to leading with its chest, you are redirecting him to the side when they have a front harness. The dog tries to pull and now he has to walk crooked and cant pull easily. By using food your dog gets to the end of the lead you call his name, make kissy sounds lol, clear your throat whatever it is to get his attention when he looks at you you use the marker word/clicker and he will now go towards you for a reward. (treat pouches are very handy) and you lead him the other way (so you are kinda walking backwards). 

The prong acts like a finger poking the dog like hey pup you aren't listening to me POKE. Some dogs need the poke, other dogs do not. the key is to figure out if your dog is hard or soft and its hard without someone who knows what they are doing. When I use my prong for walking, my dog isnt allowed beyond me, he must remain behind or besides me and he can only go the bathroom when I tell him to go. We have designated spots. He walks next to me, and if he starts to go to far, I pop his prong UP (a properly worn prong is important, my boys slips so I have a collar UNDER his prong to hold it in the right place and to attach in case the metal snaps on his prong there is a built in safety) When my boy starts to walk head a quick pop on his prong gets his attention back and in the proper walking position. But I started the same way, he would get to the end, I would pop and go the other way as soon as it tightened again I would turn around and go the other way, get tight again, you reverse direction. Eventually they understand the only way to go on a walk is with a loose leash. 

Sorry if this is TMI, or if I was not clear. Its hard to describe which is why a trainer who knows multiple toolscan assist.


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## carbel25 (Feb 7, 2014)

Ames...thank you so much. You helped a lot. You explained it well. I also have been looking on YouTube a little, not that they know all. It was helpful though. 

I do have a clicker, I tried the name thing with the clicker and a reward and it took a bit. Sounded like a broken record, nor


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## carbel25 (Feb 7, 2014)

Crap i accidentally hit send. 

But she would always look at the reward more than my face. But for the first time she eventually picked up on it towards the end. 

Now just to work on the leash thing.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Glad it helped some! I need to see and read things a few different ways to get things to stick myself so I know how it is 

Couple things to remember is when a dog responds correctly 9 out of 10 times they "get" it. You don't want to introduce new "tricks" until they get the one. My boy would focus on the treats. Really hard but make sure you only give the command ONCE. If you keep repeating yourself they are now trained to respond when they want, not when asked. I see it a LOT with "sit". People say sit. Then wait and say SIT. And then maybe say it again. If your dog knows the command but not sitting, he is ignoring you and that's not acceptable. Also a dog who knows commands inside is not reliable outside with distractions and smells. I take my boy to shopping plazas or human (not dog) parks to work on his focus and "look" commands. High traffic safe areas are best  dog parks around me aren't fenced so we go to SIT IN THE CAR Only and work on it from the car. My boy used to battle cry when he saw a pup a football field away. He has come very far now. Makes me so proud of him.

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## bigdogmom (Feb 9, 2014)

First thing I would teach this dog is how to pay attention to you. There's lots of ways to teach it. I do not put mine on a command because I want it to be a default behavior. One way I teach it is to hold a treat in my hand so the dog can sniff it and maybe even taste it but can't get to it. At some point they get frustrated and look at my face for a split second. Mark that and reward. Work up to holding the focus for a few seconds. Eventually you'll be able to get up to 30+ seconds.

You can also show the treats to the dog, then hold your arms out to the sides so he can't get it. But I don't like that method for most dogs because they will jump all over you trying to get those treats before they make the connection to look at your face.


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## Beatrix Kiddo (Feb 12, 2014)

my girl doesn't pull much with her harness, seems counter-intuitive but it helps. When she does start pulling its because she sees a cat or hears a dog growling from the other side of a fence. I always make her stop and sit down, then i stand in front of her to break her vision and make her look at me. Then we continue, i do that every single time she pulls. She's pretty much learned that pulling means we stop and i gotta stare at mom for a few seconds, which is even less fun than just casually strolling by and not pulling.


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## carbel25 (Feb 7, 2014)

We just went and bought a harness, I took her for a short walk and she seems to do better. Can't wait to try it out once this weather gets nice :/ 

We all have cabin fever!!!


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

carbel25 said:


> We just went and bought a harness, I took her for a short walk and she seems to do better. Can't wait to try it out once this weather gets nice :/
> 
> We all have cabin fever!!!


You're not the only one! Ugh can't wait for no ice and snow.

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## carbel25 (Feb 7, 2014)

Oh Ames me too! I am so tired of this crap weather. When we lived in Washington State it was so miserable. I hope I don't offended anyone, but I don't know why ANYONE would EVER choose to love there. (It was beautiful, as a place to visit...not to live)


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## BuckskinBeauty (Aug 14, 2013)

I use both! But for my dogs I prefer the harness because the prong makes me a little nervous.. the last time I used it on my male, he nearly got out of the thing trying to go after a dog. So since then I have just let him pull me on his harness.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Good point BB, I always back my prong up with a slip/choke chain. I've had a prong just drop off bob once while at an event with over 500 other people around. Lucky I noticed before he did or that would have been a mess


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## BuckskinBeauty (Aug 14, 2013)

redog said:


> Good point BB, I always back my prong up with a slip/choke chain. I've had a prong just drop off bob once while at an event with over 500 other people around. Lucky I noticed before he did or that would have been a mess


Yep another time I had the bullsnap on my leash slip right off it too... the little ring on the prong was just narrow enough and slipped right off. Scared the bejesus out of me! Luckily the dog didn't know what happened! haha


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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

I have used both, for me it just depends on the dog. I use a back up method for both though. When I'm using the prong I also have a flat buckle collar on the dog that is connected to the prong with a clip for security, I used to do it a little differently until someone taught me the clip idea (think it was Ames). I also use a flat buckle collar when I use the front clip harness, that way I can hook one end of the leash to the harness and the other end to the collar.

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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

I also have had a couple scares with the prong collar, they like to just fall right off at the worst times!

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## Beatrix Kiddo (Feb 12, 2014)

when i do training i've replaced my choke collar with a tiny flat slip lead like this one. 
It does the job and i dont have to worry about any pinching or hairloss


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Totally agree on that one! I do a fail safe as well, so if the prong snaps the collar is still attached. Getting a good prong is also key. I like the prongs by herm sprenger.

I am sure you can just get a longer chain or something to attach the two with a harness and flat buckle collar if you don't want to carry 2 leashes.


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## Tazz (Jan 27, 2014)

Is a prong collar the same as a coke collar,my boy needs to learn to walk on a leash he pulls.but a guy on YouTube said that u have to know what u are doing using a choke collar


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Tazz said:


> Is a prong collar the same as a coke collar,my boy needs to learn to walk on a leash he pulls.but a guy on YouTube said that u have to know what u are doing using a choke collar


No they are not the same. And you should know what you are doing with every training tool. You can really screw your dog up using any training tool incorrectly. A choke is a small chain around the neck similar to a slip lead. A prong is what I posted above it's got little prongs that poke the dog like a finger saying hey pay attention if he doesn't walk proper.

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## Tazz (Jan 27, 2014)

should i get a prong collar then. i can hook it up like you did. and how tight should it be
or should i have somebody else do it for me i dont want to hurt the dog thanks ames


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Tazz said:


> should i get a prong collar then. i can hook it up like you did. and how tight should it be
> or should i have somebody else do it for me i dont want to hurt the dog thanks ames


Spend the money for some training sessions with a professional to learn how to properly fit and use the collar... trust me the $40 or so will be well worth it!! Tools are only half of the battle. If you dont fit or implement them correctly you're only going to hurt the dog and set yourself back further.


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## carbel25 (Feb 7, 2014)

Choke collars aren't for me, I would be to afraid of injuring the dog. But I also don't know what I am doing. I have been working with Roxy to get her to look at me and it is going so good. Thank you all for the advice and help. These dogs sure are smart little cookies.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I used to never really use the prong or choke collars....just a wide collar or harness can do the trick. However, I have learned to actually like the prong collars! (Still dont like choke chains) I occasionally use a prong on my female Pyra and it has worked really well. Like Ames said they need to be used right. I also do the same thing as Ames, I secure it so that if it snapped the dog isn't getting away. Love the pics Ames posted because it shows what happens if it snaps


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