# Dogs are people too....



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/dogs-are-people-too.html?_r=0

Interesting article. Not sure if it's enough proof in itself but opens up to very interesting theories and conversations. Soooo many would have a hard time believe the results though.

"But now, by using the M.R.I. to push away the limitations of behaviorism, we can no longer hide from the evidence. Dogs, and probably many other animals (especially our closest primate relatives), seem to have emotions just like us. And this means we must reconsider their treatment as property.

One alternative is a sort of limited personhood for animals that show neurobiological evidence of positive emotions. Many rescue groups already use the label of "guardian" to describe human caregivers, binding the human to his ward with an implicit responsibility to care for her. Failure to act as a good guardian runs the risk of having the dog placed elsewhere. But there are no laws that cover animals as wards, so the patchwork of rescue groups that operate under a guardianship model have little legal foundation to protect the animals' interest."

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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Well, damn..........


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## Sarah~ (Mar 13, 2013)

Saw this on the GSD forum, very interesting. Pretty sure everyone knew dogs had emotions already, tho


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> Saw this on the GSD forum, very interesting. Pretty sure everyone knew dogs had emotions already, tho


I know a LOT of people who disagree maybe so they feel better about how they treat their dogs? who knows. I know a TON if people who view dogs as property not a member of the family. As I know tons who view them as a family member and eat better then they do. I am not saying one is right and the other isn't, but when you see studies like this equating intelligence, emotions and response to that of a child, I can already see those making parallels proper kennels setups or if someone would want a child chained in their backyard how would they like it type of arguments.


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## Sarah~ (Mar 13, 2013)

I can see that too and personally I agree with those arguments. I think a dog belongs in the house and you should treat them as you would any other member of the family, and they should have more rights than they currently do.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Im not saying dogs dont have emotions, but what rights do they need? And canines have been living outside since the dawn of their species. No need to move them in now. The logic behind that we should build hotels for elephants since they have feelings too lol.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Nah, animals don't need buildings. Different species, different needs. Dogs as they are today however have been evolving alongside humans for so long there is now an interdependence between the two. Essentially, what a human is able and willing to adapt to the domestic dog is also able and willing to adapt to.


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## Sarah~ (Mar 13, 2013)

There's a difference between an elephant and a dog, though. Dogs are domesticated, and depend on people. My neighbor keeps his dachshund in the yard 24/7 and I can't stand it. I've always bitten my tongue about it but a dog sitting in a yard alone is one of the saddest things I have ever seen. Yes they can live outside but I feel my dogs get enough outside time when we exercise and then we go inside to hang out. Xena will get really whiny at bedtime and crawls into your lap, I feel she craves the attention and couldn't imagine making her sleep outside all alone in a doghouse.

As far as rights, I meant the ones mentioned in the article. Making the owner a legal guardian and the dog a ward and protecting the dogs from exploitation by banning puppy mills and such.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Carriana said:


> Nah, animals don't need buildings. Different species, different needs. Dogs as they are today however have been evolving alongside humans for so long there is now an interdependence between the two. Essentially, what a human is able and willing to adapt to the domestic dog is also able and willing to adapt to.


Oh I certainly get that. My elephant hotel was a joke. I just see a bunch of fur mamas around the camp fire when I hear things like this lol.

And in certain asian countries my elephant hotel makes plenty of sense lol. Theres places in the world dogs are definitely second to the elephants lol. Theyre domesticated and used(amd have beem for hundreds of years). They deoend on their human handlers just as heavily as dogs.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Don't forget about the sacred cows in India.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Carriana said:


> Don't forget about the sacred cows in India.


Hey, dont knock the sacred cow lol. All I was saying is if its good for a dog its good for every other animal. You have to stay objective to these things. Yes the dogs have adapted to living with us but they can still survive on their own. They dont NEED to be inside. Im sure they enjoy it but its far from a necessity. All over the world different animals have been domesticated to a certain extent. Do snakes need to be in glass tanks with heat lamps just bcuz there are some kept that way?

Im not saying im right by any means just sharing my view point.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

If you can find it to stream somewhere (I think I watched it on Netflix) watch the NOVA documentary "Dogs Decoded". It gives some interesting insight into the merged evolutionary process of canines and man. Ames and i were discussing this the other day. She saw a different documentary that covers just how far the domestic dog has come from their wolf ancestors. Domestic dogs can survive on their own, sure. But there is a level of dependence that has been reached by the canine and humans exclusively.

ETA: It's not available to stream here but it gives a good description of the program http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/nature/dogs-decoded.html


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## Sarah~ (Mar 13, 2013)

I watched it, I really liked it. The science of dogs was really good, too.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I really wish I could remember the name of the one I saw. It will come to me I'm on a mission now.

The same can be said for any animal or person. People do not NEED to live inside it's just very nice to have a roof over my head and a door that keeps the elements out lol.

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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Here it is. The last 10 minutes covers the dog/wolf experiment: Science of Dogs - Video Dailymotion


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## Sarah~ (Mar 13, 2013)

ames said:


> The same can be said for any animal or person. People do not NEED to live inside it's just very nice to have a roof over my head and a door that keeps the elements out lol.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


:thumbup:


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Lots of folks with working dogs of a wide variety are going to disagree with that " every dog belongs in the house on the couch"..........


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## Ziva'sMommy (Jul 12, 2013)

I couldn't imagine keeping my dogs outside all day everyday. It would be sad. My dogs crave our attention and love to snuggle, just as much as I love their attention! My dogs are def part of my family!

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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Yay glad you found it carrie. That was a great documentary people if you get a chance to watch the end at least about the domesticated wolves and pups. Very interesting how much dogs rely on their humans over other species.



OldDog said:


> Lots of folks with working dogs of a wide variety are going to disagree with that " every dog belongs in the house on the couch"..........


Shoot lots of folks will disagree with the whole thing lol they can't think their dog has emotions it's hard enough for some men to deal with women having them lol

Then I wonder are female dogs emotions freaking crazy like some women? Are male dogs not even registering? And would the MRI be different on a bitch in heat hating every thing lol Lol so much to wonder I do jot believe every do belongs in a couch. My first pooh was not a fan of couches and only got up on water beds in the winter cause they warm lol

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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

Ziva'sMommy said:


> I couldn't imagine keeping my dogs outside all day everyday. It would be sad. My dogs crave our attention and love to snuggle, just as much as I love their attention! My dogs are def part of my family!
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 So everybody else in the world should keep their dogs that way then? And hey those Bordie Collies , Kelpies , cattle dogs , hounds etc. they work too hard too , don't they...............


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

I don't think anyone is saying that OD. We can only do what works for us and ours and what makes sense for our own lifestyles.


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## Ziva'sMommy (Jul 12, 2013)

I'm sorry OD I believe I said "I" couldn't imagine keeping "MY" dogs that way. I don't see anything on my post that said everyone should do exactly what I do.

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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Alright... let's not let this get out of hand here. We all have different viewpoints, and everyone's opinion is to be respected. 

I was raised up that big dogs belonged outside on chain spots, and the only dogs to come inside were the little ankle biters and any pregnant bitches my mom had. And might I add that my mom wouldn't know a working dog if it sat on her living room floor. Just how it was.

Back on topic though, it is an interesting article. I've always thought dogs had emotions, but obviously not to the same degree as us humans do. Amy, it would be interesting to see the brain activity of a bitch in heat to see if it's any different from say... a spayed female.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

ThaLadyPit said:


> Alright... let's not let this get out of hand here. We all have different viewpoints, and everyone's opinion is to be respected.
> 
> I was raised up that big dogs belonged outside on chain spots, and the only dogs to come inside were the little ankle biters and any pregnant bitches my mom had. And might I add that my mom wouldn't know a working dog if it sat on her living room floor. Just how it was.
> 
> Back on topic though, it is an interesting article. I've always thought dogs had emotions, but obviously not to the same degree as us humans do. Amy, it would be interesting to see the brain activity of a bitch in heat to see if it's any different from say... a spayed female.


yeah it would! But then can you have an MRI if you are pregnant? I know X-rays are out right? Not trying to compare them to humans, just now curious is pregnant females have different results than when they are not pregnant.

I think it would be cool to see what gets lite up (for lack of a better word too much TV lol) when they see say another dog or squirrel or bird? or a favorite toy, etc. More than just when they smell or see their humans. Then you have those creeps who would try to shut off that part of the brain that responds certain ways or what not.

I wasn't trying to make this post as a bash at how anyone chooses to care for their dogs, I just thought it was interesting how they are proving they are more than property. property can't have feelings. For example a dog attacks and kills a person. I don't believe that can be considered pre meditated murder or a hate crime even if the dog had probable cause due to being abused by the person they kill. Same with a child, they cant be held accountable for their actions because they do not posses the ability to know right from wrong, they don't have reason even if they have emotions. Female dogs are ruled by nature on when to quit giving birth. She can't reason that she's had 20 puppies and its time to be spayed. So while I understand they have emotions and their own personalities they are also ruled by nature and rely on their natural instincts.


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