# understanding bully's



## CINCINNATIBULLIES (Jan 15, 2009)

if the formula for the bully is the apbt/amstaff combo. why are gottiline and r.e. dogs so prevelant and so extreme. there are many breeders out there that have been crossing amstaffs and apbt for decades. lines such as tnt, york, gaff, amberlite, and many others in the akc ukc show world. if the bully formula is TRUE why the appearance of such extreme dogs appear so recently as the early 90's. york kennels has been breeding amstaff/apbt crosses since the 70's, and none of ginny's dogs by themselves look like these r.e. or gotti dogs. even the tnt line, an accepted amstaff/apbt line, doesn't have the extremities. only when r.e. or gottiline is crossed somewhere can these extremities be achieved. my question is this if the amstaff x apbt=bully. why weren't there bully's before the 90's if these apbt/amstaff combos have already been around for decades? i am not beating a dead horse on this subject i am trying to get to the bottom of what was crossed in there.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I tought ambullies had other breeds in there too such as bulldogge and mastif. I wonder have I mislead all this time. 

Interested in seeing what others say.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Well, first off, you can take SELECTED dogs to exadurate features. Cull hard and keep being selective. That's just one way to make a different look, look at how much different the amstaff looks from the apbt. 
BUT, Gotti line has always been questionable. You will get no argument outta the gotti line founder that he may have been a cross. Says he doesn't know though, he's not his breeder.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

That's a great question Cinncinatti... I'm curious to see what others say as well. I wish we had more Am Bully owners on here who have dogs with those extreme looks so that they could shed some light onto the subject.


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

I view it as a trend thing. Yes like you stated there have been APBT/AmStaff crosses before the 90s, from what I gathered they were called pitterstaffs, APBT mixes, AmStaff mixes etc.... However when the 90's hit breeders saw a new opportunity to do something different with this cross IMO. Take the APBT/AmStaff(maybe something else) mix and with alittle selective breeding you get a much bigger bulky dog with a new look. Once you get the look you desire you need to give it name. So instead of using names that have been used in the past you want to come up with a new name something thats catchy, something different, something that best describes this new style of animal => American Bully.


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

The original formula for the bully was apbt/ast, that wasn't enough, they wanted more so they bred in whatever they thought would add what was lacking. now what ever that is it is, as far as knowing for sure that is a laughing matter imo, hell I wanna know if god is a female.....my point is what you want has no baring on what ya get sometimes you just have to run with it....jmo

Op - you say apbt/crosses have been around for a long time and they look nothing like the EXTREME bullies of today, well were these breeders of past breeding for the same purposes as bully breeders? I would think not. Not to say that there are no cross breeding but I do believe there are original blood in some of the re dogs. Selective breeding can change things within a few gens imo or so I've read.

Imho this is beating a dead horse! Extreme class is named that for a reason, the dogs in that class are extreme. Standard and classic is where you see the dogs that really look like overdone asts. People keep focusing/comparing the extreme class with ast/apbt crosses which Is a joke imo. the majority of bullys aren't even extreme. There is no understanding the bully, imo the bully is a product that comes as is. Accept it with all its baggage or leave it alone. Educated guesses is as far as one can go.

Honestly, I don't want any of the founding breeders of the bully to say anything further in regards to cross breeding. reason being that imo they are a bunch of liers and that will further complicate things. I've said it before ill say it again, if the bully is your thing then its your thing, if its not then its not.....its all about preference.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

You are never going to know what all went on due to people wanting to keep the UKC papers and not accurately recording what they where breeding. 

Now IMO it is very obvious what happened and where. I am in to all breeds of dogs and you can very well tell where and when mixing began. The nose and chest areas are obvious. 


Foundation dogs where APBT/Staff IMO however the Bully people wanted a more dramatic effect that appealed to their eyes.

Neo mastiff and dogo de bordeaux is obvious in some lines and you can pretty much see where things took a drastic turn rather than the builds slowly developing due to selective breeding.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I agree you can see when they started adding in other breeds you just cannot change a breed that dramatically in a few generations. We may never know what breeds went into making different bloodlines but some are easy to guess what the mix is. The breed is still very young and you can see there is not much consistency yet but hopefully soon there will be more consistency and they will be called the right name, Bullies.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Deformed puppies happen. If you take that pup and rather than cull it, you breed it, I'd imagine it would be very easy to perpetuate those traits. The defect that gives the English Bulldog its look is called... chrondodysplasia? I think? No doubt it exists in Pit Bulls and AmStaffs as well. You have but to start breeding for it.


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## Nizmosmommy (Jun 1, 2009)

Question::::
I always thought it could be a mix of multiple things.
like we had bella for a while and I swear she was pit mixed with something without a name.
I didn't think there was a specific recipe for getting one type of dog,
only because everyone who breeds, has different things in different dogs.
IDK if that made any sense lol.
but maybe soemone can explain where I am wrong and put me straight lol.


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

los44 said:


> The original formula for the bully was apbt/ast, that wasn't enough, they wanted more so they bred in whatever they thought would add what was lacking. now what ever that is it is, as far as knowing for sure that is a laughing matter imo, hell I wanna know if god is a female.....my point is what you want has no baring on what ya get sometimes you just have to run with it....jmo
> 
> Op - you say apbt/crosses have been around for a long time and they look nothing like the EXTREME bullies of today, well were these breeders of past breeding for the same purposes as bully breeders? I would think not. Not to say that there are no cross breeding but I do believe there are original blood in some of the re dogs. Selective breeding can change things within a few gens imo or so I've read.
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


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## eldogvw (Nov 3, 2009)

Imo they use other smaller bully breeds like french bulldog or english bulldog to get the muscles and bulky look that they want.its jus commosense.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

eldogvw said:


> breeds like french bulldog


That's a pretty far stretch there..... if it's common sense, do you have anything to back that up? Taking a muscled dog to a TINY muscled dog with prick ears and a cat face doesn't seem like it would produce much other than a boston, LOL. No offense to boston terrier people, I love em'.


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## Bethb2007 (Jul 5, 2009)

"_Well, first off, you can take SELECTED dogs to exadurate features. Cull hard and keep being selective. That's just one way to make a different look, look at how much different the amstaff looks from the apbt_" 
I do not beleive many of the "typical" ambully breeders do this. Very few know anything about breeding, and would not cull as it would hurt their pocket book. I believe most breed out of ignorance, for profit, and are into and out of the breed in less than a few years.


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## GatorMan (Feb 5, 2010)

Gr CH Haunch had a couple sons, which heads were HUGE!! I mean they looked like Am Staffs. When they were bred, they did not pass that "HEAD" gene on. They had what we would call normal heads, great conformation etc.. So, it would take many years to bring that back in selective breeding, let alone make it extreme. In many Am Bull lines you can see the sloping backs, bowed legs, short muzzels and HEAVY jowls. These are all traits from French Mastiff, Neo mastiff ect. I am just glad that now there is a name for these dogs as AM bulls and not APBT. As long as they acknowledge that they are not APBT's then i see nothing wrong with breeding them for looks. I just dont like when they are listed as APBT's.


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## Lvis (Mar 4, 2010)

CINCINNATIBULLIES said:


> if the formula for the bully is the apbt/amstaff combo. why are gottiline and r.e. dogs so prevelant and so extreme. there are many breeders out there that have been crossing amstaffs and apbt for decades. lines such as tnt, york, gaff, amberlite, and many others in the akc ukc show world. if the bully formula is TRUE why the appearance of such extreme dogs appear so recently as the early 90's. york kennels has been breeding amstaff/apbt crosses since the 70's, and none of ginny's dogs by themselves look like these r.e. or gotti dogs. even the tnt line, an accepted amstaff/apbt line, doesn't have the extremities. only when r.e. or gottiline is crossed somewhere can these extremities be achieved. my question is this if the amstaff x apbt=bully. why weren't there bully's before the 90's if these apbt/amstaff combos have already been around for decades? i am not beating a dead horse on this subject i am trying to get to the bottom of what was crossed in there.


i would also include staffordshire bull terriors to the list as well.... alot of them pocket bullies look just like staffy bulls with cropped ears


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

reddoggy said:


> That's a pretty far stretch there..... if it's common sense, do you have anything to back that up? Taking a muscled dog to a TINY muscled dog with prick ears and a cat face doesn't seem like it would produce much other than a boston, LOL. No offense to boston terrier people, I love em'.





Bethb2007 said:


> "_Well, first off, you can take SELECTED dogs to exadurate features. Cull hard and keep being selective. That's just one way to make a different look, look at how much different the amstaff looks from the apbt_"
> I do not beleive many of the "typical" ambully breeders do this. Very few know anything about breeding, and would not cull as it would hurt their pocket book. I believe most breed out of ignorance, for profit, and are into and out of the breed in less than a few years.


If you cant see frnchie in these there is a problem 








Shortybullinc
Blue Rock Bullies, Home to the Shorty Bulls


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Dude, Shorty Bulls are NOT American Bullies.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

reddoggy said:


> That's a pretty far stretch there..... if it's common sense, do you have anything to back that up? Taking a muscled dog to a TINY muscled dog with prick ears and a cat face doesn't seem like it would produce much other than a boston, LOL. No offense to boston terrier people, I love em'.





reddoggy said:


> Dude, Shorty Bulls are NOT American Bullies.


Then WTH are shorty bulls? another new breed?
Now I can find many American Bullies sites where the french bull dog is the obvious cross or possibly a boston terrier. They are being called Am bullies and I have seen a few with ABCK that have placed. To say that french bulldogs are not being mixed along with EB, mastiffs, am bulldogs, and so on is being blind to whats really going on.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm just not seeing the French influence at all. (Edit-as far as AMBULLIES go)

Anyway, here ya go.
Shorty Bull Information and Pictures, Shorty Bulls
They're newer but have been around long enough to have a life expectancy


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Next time I run across the pictures I am thinking of I will post them. I have seen plenty of pocket pits and they look like french bulldog mixes.


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

Post up the pics of the frenchie bullies, cause honestly I don't see many bullies that look like frenchys, eb's for sure but I don't see a lot of frenchy. I don't even wanna know why there are shortybull pics in this thread, Shortybulls are their own dog/breed, don't know much about them as they are not my thing. It seems as if "am bully" is the new term for cross breeding, lol.

Honestly speaking its taken quite some time to shape the bully of today, to say that they just mixed in different breeds and called it a day is a laughing matter.
Selective breeding over time whether cross breeding or not is obvious and if you say otherwise your just a hater. its one thing not to respect what they created, it is another thing altogether to act as if these men that created the bully were just some dumb ignorant people.Dave wilson comes across as a lot of things, dumb is not one of them. The bully wasn't created over night people. I've seen eb to apbt crosses and you could label them as bullys, but it is obvious they are eb x apbt, it takes at least 4 gens of selective breeding before the dogs start to look some what consistent and even that depends on the breeder.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Then why even today do we see so many bullies that have no consistent look? I am all for them having a standard but I can look at 10 websites and see no consistency. Now you can find nice bullies with great sound structure but why do they seem to be the exception and not the norm? I think the breed is out of hand right now because the market is huge for them so you have every person trying to cash in and breeding a bunch of junk. I would like to see the breed be more uniform in appearance, you see so many that are obvious crosses or every done in there yard looks different. I know that is what the ABKC is striving for but they still have a lot of work to do.
And Dave Wilson says many things to contradict himself who knows where the truth lies with the breed.


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

I have alway assumed AmBullies were mixed with all kinds of breeds, and alot of pics and dogs I've seen look like it. But in reality I don't have any hard evidence to confirm it, only pics and hear say. 
I've learned to stop worrying about it, cause no matter how much you argue and complain about AmBullies they are not going any where, and nothing is going to change. So I just let the AmBully folks do their thang and I'll do mine. I've said alot neagtive stuff about Bullies in arguments, and accomplished nothing so im done with the Bully bashing for the most part. I'm turning over a new leaf! :thumbsup:


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> Then why even today do we see so many bullies that have no consistent look? I am all for them having a standard but I can look at 10 websites and see no consistency. Now you can find nice bullies with great sound structure but why do they seem to be the exception and not the norm? I think the breed is out of hand right now because the market is huge for them so you have every person trying to cash in and breeding a bunch of junk. I would like to see the breed be more uniform in appearance, you see so many that are obvious crosses or every done in there yard looks different. I know that is what the ABKC is striving for but they still have a lot of work to do.
> And Dave Wilson says many things to contradict himself who knows where the truth lies with the breed.


Well because it doesnt matter if it is consitant or to the standard people still pay big dollars so why not do the easy way and throw two dogs in the back yard and cash in.


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

performanceknls said:


> Then why even today do we see so many bullies that have no consistent look? I am all for them having a standard but I can look at 10 websites and see no consistency. Now you can find nice bullies with great sound structure but why do they seem to be the exception and not the norm? I think the breed is out of hand right now because the market is huge for them so you have every person trying to cash in and breeding a bunch of junk. I would like to see the breed be more uniform in appearance, you see so many that are obvious crosses or every done in there yard looks different. I know that is what the ABKC is striving for but they still have a lot of work to do.
> And Dave Wilson says many things to contradict himself who knows where the truth lies with the breed.


There's inconsistency because of breeders breeding not to standard, not that the ABKC helps with their generalization of a standard. I've read that they are gonna start tightening up the standards but ill believe it when I see it.

The breed is out of hand but its getting better, trust me its getting better. Maybe you or the people who strictly stay in the apbt community don't see it but I do.

We are both in agreement on the uniformity of the breed. I do believe that many are breeding for money purposes but many are also breeding for fame or in the hope that they will produce the next great bully or "bullyline" which is more dangerous for the am bully than those breeding for money but thats jmo.

As far as dave Wilson, as i said in my earlier post he is many things but dumb is not one of them I assure you.


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

gamer said:


> Well because it doesnt matter if it is consitant or to the standard people still pay big dollars so why not do the easy way and throw two dogs in the back yard and cash in.


So its that simple? Throw 2 dogs together and get rich? Go learn and research the bully, like really do your research then come back and speak on the bully. Keith "cane76" rip, wasn't a fan of the bully but he knew his stuff, I miss him when it comes to debates such as this one.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Right, and APBTs are even more consistent. Pfffft! When I see a 25lb with a narrow head and a 70lb with a bobble head I'm thinkin' wow, ApBt breeders are the most scrupulous. Bullies have become QUITE consistent, go to a dang ABKC show already!


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

reddoggy said:


> That's a pretty far stretch there..... if it's common sense, do you have anything to back that up? Taking a muscled dog to a TINY muscled dog with prick ears and a cat face doesn't seem like it would produce much other than a boston, LOL. No offense to boston terrier people, I love em'.


 Do this , go research the Johnson bloodline American Bulldogs and the Alapaha Blueblood Bulldogs , once you do that compare 'em to some of the mutant 'bullies' running around. Sure it's conjecture on my part , but you'll find some *really* interesting things jumping out at you.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

reddoggy said:


> Right, and APBTs are even more consistent. Pfffft! When I see a 25lb with a narrow head and a 70lb with a bobble head I'm thinkin' wow, ApBt breeders are the most scrupulous. Bullies have become QUITE consistent, go to a dang ABKC show already!


 Oh really? SHOW me a single '25' lb dog in the UKC show ring , now go show me a 70 lb dog in the ADBA show ring. Mayhap you need to take into account the differences in phenotype connected with the APBT registries , if you're going to set yourself up as some sort of expert at least acquire the most basic of information.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Actually, I could do both. Doesn't mean they'll place but you bring up a good point. Consistency tends to stay with in registries and in the ABKC(of the four different standards) there's clones all over the ring.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

reddoggy said:


> Actually, I could do both. Doesn't mean they'll place but you bring up a good point. Consistency tends to stay with in registries and in the ABKC(of the four different standards) there's clones all over the ring.


 Then if you could 'do both' then why don't you? Nobody shows a 25 lb dog in UKC and in point of FACT a 25 lb dog is a rarity even in the ADBA , and you might well actually come up with a 70 lb dog someone actually *entered* in an ADBA conformation show , now show me one that wins anything , and don't bother with the ultra large weightpull dogs , unless of course you wish to end up in a loooooonnngggg discussion of what was crossed into THEM to get the size , I've been around long enough to know the details on the Eddington dogs ( I *knew* Eddie) and certain other bloodlines , they weren't bulldogs either , and whether you wish to admit it or not there are other things bred into some of the five dog wide ,eight dog long dandy dinmont legged , basketball headed 'bullies'.

Apbts they are *not*. And you've missed the point , QUIT cross registering them as APBTs , ya want UKC recognition? Then work towards it.

Furthermore y'all claim an APBT/AST base and subsequently claim that you've managed to breed out all the dog aggression in the space of twenty years. That sets folks up to FAIL should it surface at the wrong time. And you folks are fostering a puppypeddling syndrome thats out of control , want me to put up a photo of one of those illbred specimens that someone is asking 7 grand for? 1800 -2500 for a puppy?

Get real.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

OldDog said:


> And you folks are fostering a puppypeddling syndrome thats out of control ,
> Get real.


You folks? like who? enlighten me a little more. cuz if you think we're not doing the dogs justice, I want to know.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

redog said:


> You folks? like who? enlighten me a little more. cuz if you think we're not doing the dogs justice, I want to know.


 People breeding the 'bullies' to extreme degrees and peddling pups on the 'net and other places for 1500-2000 dollars , grown dogs for a lot more than that that look more like an EB than a bulldog and yet still registering them as APBTs. All the while trumpeting about what they are that they most assuredly *aren't*.

And they aren't APBTs. Simple as that.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES (Jan 15, 2009)

bully's are their own recognized breed by the abkc and the aadr. real bully fanciers regard their bully's as bully's. it is the uneducated bully owner that thinks he/she has an apbt. ask the typical bully owner who jeep is they will look at you puzzled. it is continually asked why bully's fetch such a hefty price? i own both bully's and gamebred apbt and understand the history of both. if it is so wrong for the bully breeders to ask $2000 for a dog why is it not absurd for an old timer to have paid upwards of $50-75,000 dollars for a match dog back in the day? if one can get the money why woudn't he? dog food, kennels, shots, and cleaning suplies cost alot of money.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

CINCINNATIBULLIES said:


> bully's are their own recognized breed by the abkc and the aadr. real bully fanciers regard their bully's as bully's. it is the uneducated bully owner that thinks he/she has an apbt. ask the typical bully owner who jeep is they will look at you puzzled. it is continually asked why bully's fetch such a hefty price? i own both bully's and gamebred apbt and understand the history of both. if it is so wrong for the bully breeders to ask $2000 for a dog why is it not absurd for an old timer to have paid upwards of $50-75,000 dollars for a match dog back in the day? if one can get the money why woudn't he? dog food, kennels, shots, and cleaning suplies cost alot of money.


I have never seen such prices on a match dog but it would be absurd to me. **** you can get a nice CH for 3500 and that dog has proven something other then looking good.


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

Most "I've" ever heard a match dog going for from the past was around 11,000, but I've seen them stupid documentaries and heard stories about dog fighting today and heard of ch and gr ch match dogs been sold for 25 to 50 grand.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Mcleod15 said:


> Most "I've" ever heard a match dog going for from the past was around 11,000, but I've seen them stupid documentaries and heard stories about dog fighting today and heard of ch and gr ch match dogs been sold for 25 to 50 grand.


The PETA, H$U$ documentaries? I can believe that they would make it sound so much worse then it is.


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## bluestark (Oct 11, 2009)

Ok, I also own both. The prices are ridiculous on bullies. BUT, people pay it. Its that simple. Stupid people pay it, let me rephrase that. I have NEVER paid over 400 for any of my bullies. Internet prices are USUALLY not the real prices. You can call any kennel and they will lower the price the longer you talk. Both my bullies were in the 1000's and I paid 400 for each of them. Now, the ABKC does have Pocket, Standard, Classic, and XL. Fun classes- extreme, best blue, black, purple. WTH ever. The ABKC does NOT have an extreme class. Pocket is for bullies 17" and under, standard is your usual bully. Classic is the APBT with bigger head and more weight, and XL is your larger, taller bullies. Now, I agree something had to be mixed in somewhere and I am a bully FANCIER. But we will never know, so might as well take them as they are or DONT! I do not like people callingt then bull, fat, mutts, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I do not force my dogs on anyones liking, as I dont care. 
These are three of my UKC, ABKC registered dogs. 
Dozer:








Trinity at 8 monthshas also won second place in ABKC show ring)








Nala at 4 1/2 months:








Dozer is a classic, as most can tell. Trinity is a pocket, and Nala is a standard. I personally dont like the XL. TOO BIG for my likings. Please tell me where there is no common relationship between these dogs. I see it everywhere in them.... I will inform someone REAL QUICK LIKE that these are NOT APBT's although they all do have UKC registries. They are American Bullies. It is the same type of dog, just bred for different looks. All are types of "pit bulls". So why does everyone fight over them, we are all here to better the breed, and the name for THE DOGS THEMSELVES. If my dogs could talk they would only say one thing. I might be a chucky butt, but I still have all the drive in the world. 
Now, on to the shorty bulls.
These are a mix between American Bullies, and Frechies. Proven and stated. They are registered when they should not be, but who can stop them now? NO ONE! I hope I helped cleared some things up. Sorry this is soooo long. Just a lot of built of frustration from reading some of these ignorant posts.


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## bluestark (Oct 11, 2009)

Ok, and my dogs would say CHUNKY. not a short killer named CHUCKY!!!!


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

gamer said:


> The PETA, H$U$ documentaries? I can believe that they would make it sound so much worse then it is.


One of them was funded by them HSUS idiots I think, but the one I watched that was filmed in Europe, I don't know who published that one.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Was it the BBC docu where they were sneaking dogs into the country through Ireland???


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

reddoggy said:


> Was it the BBC docu where they were sneaking dogs into the country through Ireland???


Might have been, one part I remember was the part about that famous soccor player that busted for buy and fighting dogs. Does that sound famaliar. I can't find that video, I don't even remember what I searched to find it.


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## razor52 (Mar 1, 2010)

bluestark said:


> Ok, I also own both. The prices are ridiculous on bullies. BUT, people pay it. Its that simple. Stupid people pay it, let me rephrase that. I have NEVER paid over 400 for any of my bullies. Internet prices are USUALLY not the real prices. You can call any kennel and they will lower the price the longer you talk. Both my bullies were in the 1000's and I paid 400 for each of them. Now, the ABKC does have Pocket, Standard, Classic, and XL. Fun classes- extreme, best blue, black, purple. WTH ever. The ABKC does NOT have an extreme class. Pocket is for bullies 17" and under, standard is your usual bully. Classic is the APBT with bigger head and more weight, and XL is your larger, taller bullies. Now, I agree something had to be mixed in somewhere and I am a bully FANCIER. But we will never know, so might as well take them as they are or DONT! I do not like people callingt then bull, fat, mutts, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I do not force my dogs on anyones liking, as I dont care.
> These are three of my UKC, ABKC registered dogs.
> Dozer:
> 
> ...


Right on point bluestark, by the way beautiful dogs. i just think people get confused by the word bully. it has a broad meaning, theirs alot of types of bullys, but most people dont even know that, i would like to know your opinion bluestark or anyone else on my girl, would she be standard or classic? 
Cali


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Mcleod15 said:


> Might have been, one part I remember was the part about that famous soccor player that busted for buy and fighting dogs. Does that sound famaliar. I can't find that video, I don't even remember what I searched to find it.


That's the one! They went to Finland to get some tested dogs at a steep price and then smuggled it back to UK through Ireland! NICE dogs in that BTW!
The BBC had to get a bunch of clearance directly from Parlament for the docu cause they had to participate in a bunch of illegal activities.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Razor52, CLASSIC. The dog fits the OLD UKC standard, which is what Classic class was brought in for, the less exaggerated bullies if the bunch.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES (Jan 15, 2009)

razor52 definitelty classic bully. imo the real bully.


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## bluestark (Oct 11, 2009)

Razor52: 
That dog is very much classic, and if she is in tact she could probably DOMINATE in the show ring of ABKC. She is a very pretty girl. And looks conformationally correct for ABKC classic standards. You don't see a whole lot of female classics, a lot less than males anyway.


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## razor52 (Mar 1, 2010)

thanks for the comments. classic is what i figured, good to hear other opinions on her from people in the know. i was real fortunate to get her. i was looking for about two years, just for a true american bully and willing to pay a lot more than i ending up paying. she everything and more than i expected. her mom was amazing also heres some more pics.
Cali's mom Brezzy








Cali was pup


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I'd hate to be the barer of bad news here, but the classic standard seems to be focused _more _ on AmStaff looking dogs. Wider wedge head, thicker boned, and broader chests(from what I've been seeing). Not hating or anything, but the idea of a "true" American Bully seems senseless to me, being that the breed hasn't been around THAT long and is still balancing out as far as any solid conformation goes.


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## CINCINNATIBULLIES (Jan 15, 2009)

the classic bully look is what the bully was supposed to be, then the public took these dogs and brought us to what we have today.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Not the point. Point is that the classic standardized bully is not too hot in the ABKC ring.


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

No, the classic look was not the intended finished product. The bully of today was whaut they wanted to create, Dave Wilson has said so himself that a king kamali styled dog was what he envisioned as the bully.

BTW IMHO king kamali is the standard regardless of what the ABKC says. He is bully, clean, correct and down right impressive. 

The classic class is gaining steam, I see a lot more people inquiring about it. I saw a really good looking classic styled dog the other day on the boards, I forgot his name, I think it was stoic or something along those lines.


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## bluestark (Oct 11, 2009)

Stoic is a very nice male classic. I have met Stoic in person. My Dozer and Stoic looks very similar. Although, Dozer has a slightly bigger head and chest. The Classic style bully is not as popular in the show ring. Which actually means easier to put points on the board with a Classic male or female bully. 
Los44:
What board did you find Stoic on? I would love to catch up with the owners of him... They only live next state over from me and havent spoken with them since the Oct bully show


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## bluestark (Oct 11, 2009)

Reddoggy:
The ABKC judges I know personally would actually love Razor52's girl. 
Not downing Stoic's owners but I was told that Stoic gets starved for two days before shows. That I do not agree with. He was rather nostalgic at the last show and even growled at me!


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I haven't shown, but when I work my dog, i don't let her eat for at least 12 hours before... it is more likely that a hungry dog is going to do what you want them to the first time. While I don't agree with a full 48 hours I really don't see a problem with 24 hours. JMO though... It's not likely that not feeding him is the reason behind his unstable temperament... it could be something as silly as different living arrangements in his home or something... I know when my "babies daddy" was rehomed and made to be a kennel dog instead of a house pet first and foremost he lost that *sparkle* that made me fall in love with him.


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

ABKC CLASSIC CHAMPION, "PR TRULY STOIC" - The Elite Edge American Bully Forum


bluestark said:


> Stoic is a very nice male classic. I have met Stoic in person. My Dozer and Stoic looks very similar. Although, Dozer has a slightly bigger head and chest. The Classic style bully is not as popular in the show ring. Which actually means easier to put points on the board with a Classic male or female bully.
> Los44:
> What board did you find Stoic on? I would love to catch up with the owners of him... They only live next state over from me and havent spoken with them since the Oct bully show


There ya go!


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