# back yard breeding at its finest!!



## kellysue301 (Dec 16, 2010)

POCONO PITS AND PUGS

I was looking in our local paper at the ads for puppies and dogs just to skim and I came across this breeder advertising his website. Take a look for yourself..there is too much wrong to even know where to begin!!!:hammer:

And the exact ad in the paper reads: RED NOSED PIT BULL PUPS ADBA registered www.poconopitsandpugs.com $400 neg


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Ay yi yi..........


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## Kathleen (Apr 3, 2011)

I'm from the 'Pocono's". Just moved down here last March 2010. I know exactly where they are..

I don't condone BYB. ....but, I don't think these dogs look too bad. They are registered with ADBA, and not your 'fake' overnight registry... I am glad they are $400, and not $1000. 

Before anyone bashes me.... just saying 
Maybe they are just starting out, and as we all know.. you can't buy that perfect correct pup from a well known breeder unless the breeder has known you for years or you have been showing.. where do you start?
Would you give one of your pups to just anyone?
Maybe they are interested in dog sports and want to get started in it, but don't know where to find the resources? 

I say, lets invite them to this board. :woof:


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## aussie monster pitt (Mar 3, 2011)

for 1 it says they been breeding "pits" for 8 years and they refer to the sire and dam as mum and dad and that ginger dog has razors edge blood line? would that make em apbt x am bully?

and is it just me or does that bruiser look like he's got mastiff in him?


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## Brutus0124 (Mar 22, 2011)

I thought the dad looked mastiff as well. On the puppies page It says the dad is 130 lbs... Not an apbt! It also list the pups as $800


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Why did I look? I avoid the advertisement section of the paper and Craigslist. Lol


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## purple93lowrider (Mar 25, 2008)

i to don't condone byb...but i would have to agree with some of the pts. Kathleen made...another thing is that the first RE dogs weren't Am Bullys... take Throwin Knuckles for example he was one of the first RE dogs but he is not what you see when you think Am Bully....and also The ADBA doesn't recognize the AM Bully that is why Dave Wilson started the ABKC... and these dogs may be APBT x Am Bully but they still have to be reg. APBT with the ADBA.....like Kathleen said least they reg with a reputable org. not a fake reg. or no papers at all.

and if ya wanna start bashing me go ahead cause i don't give a flying Flip...cause they was I see it is if ya talking bout me ya just giving someone else a break


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## Eric (Oct 21, 2010)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Ay yi yi..........


Exactly what I said...

... but I also had a WTF on the end


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Those dogs shouldn't be bred lol. That's all i can say. They are fugly. Dang byb's putting out 

I understand with the comment about them possibly just starting out. However, they have supposedly been in it for 8 years and have poor examples of the breed. That big ol male looks mastiff and has a super high rear. IMHO


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## dsgdlover (Feb 21, 2011)

the three pups that are at the top of page look nice, but dont see them in the litter pic...


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## ashes (Jul 7, 2010)

I've always wanted a pug! lol


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## kellysue301 (Dec 16, 2010)

ahhhh I don't know about them being okay breeders...Bruiser doesn't even look APBT. Plus they call them red nosed pits..just screams BYB. Plus Bruiser is Ginger's uncle!! Unless that's a normal occurrence and is something that many breeders do, I just don't see how that is okay!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

They are nothing more than BYB's breeding unregistered pugs and did you see some of the pug puppies? they have horrible heads for pug and eye placement. Then you get to the big sloppy pit mixes they are breeding I do not care of they have ADBA papers those are not APBT's. They are advertising the pups as having big paws and are breeding for size. How can any of you think this is ok? Adoption places take great care in placing dogs, let them find homes for the unwanted pits instead of a bone head BYB producing more. Just because they do not just let them go to anyone does not mean they are doing a good job. If you flashed money at them I do not think they would look into the home that hard. Just a promise of I will take care of them is good enough.

$800 for those DOGS??? really?? My next litter is going to be 800 off of two working dogs.... That is just a shame! 

I also guarantee you those pictures of the pit puppies across the top are not their dogs they are from another website. Nothing they can produce with the dogs they have will look like that.


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## Pittmama (Apr 19, 2011)

*Wow!*

I'm no expert bt I know those pups and pup parents deff don't look like any type of full bully breed. They are adorable tho


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> They are nothing more than BYB's breeding unregistered pugs and did you see some of the pug puppies? they have horrible heads for pug and eye placement. Then you get to the big sloppy pit mixes they are breeding I do not care of they have ADBA papers those are not APBT's. They are advertising the pups as having big paws and are breeding for size. How can any of you think this is ok? Adoption places take great care in placing dogs, let them find homes for the unwanted pits instead of a bone head BYB producing more. Just because they do not just let them go to anyone does not mean they are doing a good job. If you flashed money at them I do not think they would look into the home that hard. Just a promise of I will take care of them is good enough.
> 
> $800 for those DOGS??? really?? My next litter is going to be 800 off of two working dogs.... That is just a shame!
> 
> I also guarantee you those pictures of the pit puppies across the top are not their dogs they are from another website. Nothing they can produce with the dogs they have will look like that.


Can you explain to me why kennels like these post photos of sire/dam conjoined? Why is that necessary? It's like they're trying to prove something & looks disgraceful to the breed/dogs


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Showing 2 dogs tied just proves that the 2 dogs were stuck and have been bred. Wether it takes or not is a different story. I don't have an issue with tied dogs being photographed but those dogs should not be tied period they should be spayed and neutered.


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## Beedeezy10 (Jul 22, 2010)

LMMFAO OMG Look at the poor pug puppies head and eyes! They honestly looks deformed. Im so sorry to laugh like that but thats just not right! SMH


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## roe1880 (Nov 8, 2008)

performanceknls said:


> They are nothing more than BYB's breeding unregistered pugs and did you see some of the pug puppies? they have horrible heads for pug and eye placement. Then you get to the big sloppy pit mixes they are breeding I do not care of they have ADBA papers those are not APBT's. They are advertising the pups as having big paws and are breeding for size. How can any of you think this is ok? Adoption places take great care in placing dogs, let them find homes for the unwanted pits instead of a bone head BYB producing more. Just because they do not just let them go to anyone does not mean they are doing a good job. If you flashed money at them I do not think they would look into the home that hard. Just a promise of I will take care of them is good enough.
> 
> $800 for those DOGS??? really?? My next litter is going to be 800 off of two working dogs.... That is just a shame!
> 
> I also guarantee you those pictures of the pit puppies across the top are not their dogs they are from another website. Nothing they can produce with the dogs they have will look like that.


I agree 100%... unfreaking real the crap people are trying to get away with... I have pups off of working dogs that I don't/won't charge that much for and I have Ch dogs!!!
MUTTS and unknowledgable people.. if they been doing it for 8 years they should have learned something in the first 2 years to realize what they are doing isn't right in any way shape or form... dont get me wrong ive made plenty of mistakes but never to the point of just breeding anything and trying to rob people of their hard earned money on below sub-par dogs...

For those of you newbies here making excuses for them ya need to sit back and read some more topics on this site.. not bashing and or trying to start anything but it's obvious ya don't have much of a clue either...


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Sadie said:


> Showing 2 dogs tied just proves that the 2 dogs were stuck and have been bred. Wether it takes or not is a different story. I don't have an issue with tied dogs being photographed but those dogs should not be tied period they should be spayed and neutered.


I could see for line purposes so the breeder can keep consistent files of each sucessful breeding makes sense just don't know why it's necessary on the site as well? But I thought the same thing, doesn't prove the breeding took.

Agreed - they should be neutered & treated as just pets not breeding stock.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I personally see no reason for tied photos. If you need tied photos to prove a breeding then your not reputable enough to be breeding, and its just plain tacky IMO. As for their stock  BYBER!!!!


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

American_Pit13 said:


> I personally see no reason for tied photos. If you need tied photos to prove a breeding then your not reputable enough to be breeding, and its just plain tacky IMO. As for their stock  BYBER!!!!


:goodpost: Yup. My thoughts exactly!


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## ashes (Jul 7, 2010)

yep I agree with Holly. I don't care to see two dogs tied...


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Lex's Guardian said:


> Can you explain to me why kennels like these post photos of sire/dam conjoined? Why is that necessary? It's like they're trying to prove something & looks disgraceful to the breed/dogs


 Tara explained it, it is show those two dogs have been bred but I agree with Holly on the matter.



roe1880 said:


> I agree 100%... unfu**ing real the crap people are trying to get away with... I have pups off of working dogs that I don't/won't charge that much for and I have Ch dogs!!!
> MUTTS and unknowledgable people.. if they been doing it for 8 years they should have learned something in the first 2 years to realize what they are doing isn't right in any way shape or form... dont get me wrong ive made plenty of mistakes but never to the point of just breeding anything and trying to rob people of their hard earned money on below sub-par dogs...
> 
> For those of you newbies here making excuses for them ya need to sit back and read some more topics on this site.. not bashing and or trying to start anything but it's obvious ya don't have much of a clue either...


:goodpost: I know and I am so excited but more on that later......... 



American_Pit13 said:


> I personally see no reason for tied photos. If you need tied photos to prove a breeding then your not reputable enough to be breeding, and its just plain tacky IMO. As for their stock  BYBER!!!!


I agree, I know what the purpose is but it is not necessary if your reputable IMO


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I know several reputable breeders who have taken pics of 2 dogs tied and put it up on peds online as an expected breeding that doesn't mean they are byb's or shouldn't be breeding. People do it for different reasons there is nothing wrong with it Imo. If the dogs being bred are quality animals and the breeder wants to show said dogs tied and that pups are expected out of those 2 parents I have no issues with it.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Sadie said:


> I know several reputable breeders who have taken pics of 2 dogs tied and put it up on peds online as an expected breeding that doesn't mean they are byb's or shouldn't be breeding. People do it for different reasons there is nothing wrong with it Imo. If the dogs being bred are quality animals and the breeder wants to show said dogs tied and that pups are expected out of those 2 parents I have no issues with it.


I never said it meant they are byb'ers. However you can post 2 pictures of the parents, their is no need for tied photos when as you said above it does not prove the breeding took. It proves not much of anything.


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## kera5 (Jan 29, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> They are nothing more than BYB's breeding unregistered pugs and did you see some of the pug puppies? they have horrible heads for pug and eye placement. Then you get to the big sloppy pit mixes they are breeding I do not care of they have ADBA papers those are not APBT's. They are advertising the pups as having big paws and are breeding for size. How can any of you think this is ok? Adoption places take great care in placing dogs, let them find homes for the unwanted pits instead of a bone head BYB producing more. Just because they do not just let them go to anyone does not mean they are doing a good job. If you flashed money at them I do not think they would look into the home that hard. Just a promise of I will take care of them is good enough.
> 
> $800 for those DOGS??? really?? My next litter is going to be 800 off of two working dogs.... That is just a shame!
> 
> I also guarantee you those pictures of the pit puppies across the top are not their dogs they are from another website. Nothing they can produce with the dogs they have will look like that.


i agree 100%


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Kathleen said:


> I'm from the 'Pocono's". Just moved down here last March 2010. I know exactly where they are..
> 
> I don't condone BYB. ....but, I don't think these dogs look too bad. They are registered with ADBA, and not your 'fake' overnight registry... I am glad they are $400, and not $1000.
> 
> ...


I started with a BYB dog, but have learned better. Now that I know a thing or two, I'm going to shows, talking to people online to find a well bred dog. There is no excuse to start out breeding with poor quality dogs. The only reason a person should breed is to improve the quality of the dogs they are breeding, and for their own personal stock and to place additional dogs with good owners who either plan to show or have a pet quality dog who will be snipped.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

American_Pit13 said:


> I never said it meant they are byb'ers. However you can post 2 pictures of the parents, their is no need for tied photos when as you said above it does not prove the breeding took. It proves not much of anything.


Well it's a preference like anything else there have been several famous game dogs who were photographed tied it's no biggie. people crop ears there is no need for that either it's purely cosmetic and serves no purpose but some people prefer it. It's a choice like I said that is the least of my concerns when looking at a breeding but just like I am not against ear cropping even though I personally don't crop .. I have no issues with photographing tied dogs. If it's a good breeding and the animals are worth it by all means it's your porogotive. And your right it doesn't prove anything just shows that those two parents were bred and should be expecting pups if the breeding took. You could look at a number of reasons as to why breeders would choose to photograph their breedings. I don't see any harm in it but to each his/ her own.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I too did not say that showing pictures of dogs tied was only done by BYB's however I think it is not necessary. I think it started to show up when people were lying about breedings and it was a way to show you really did the breeding. I don't know in today's world I think it is tacky but back in the day it was a common practice.


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## Kathleen (Apr 3, 2011)

roe1880 said:


> I agree 100%... unfreaking real the crap people are trying to get away with... I have pups off of working dogs that I don't/won't charge that much for and I have Ch dogs!!!
> MUTTS and unknowledgable people.. if they been doing it for 8 years they should have learned something in the first 2 years to realize what they are doing isn't right in any way shape or form... dont get me wrong ive made plenty of mistakes but never to the point of just breeding anything and trying to rob people of their hard earned money on below sub-par dogs...
> 
> For those of you newbies here making excuses for them ya need to sit back and read some more topics on this site.. not bashing and or trying to start anything but it's obvious ya don't have much of a clue either...


Who me?
I guess I am just the type of person who tries to teach, educate people, and I try to see it from their side. I get sick of people bashing right away instead of helping or educating them. 
I didn't really look over the site. 
I do agree... after 8 years, (now that I know this) you should know your dogs, bloodlines and standards of your breed. They definitely don't have a clue...

Just a note: I've owned this breed since 1988.. so I am not a newbie


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> I too did not say that showing pictures of dogs tied was only done by BYB's however I think it is not necessary. I think it started to show up when people were lying about breedings and it was a way to show you really did the breeding. I don't know in today's world I think it is tacky but back in the day it was a common practice.


That's what I first thought right away when I saw it - but wasn't sure, so I asked... It does look tacky on a website IMO but like I said before I thought maybe it could be something for breeder reference files but not a site. If a reputable breeder wants to do that fine, but I don't think it's necessary for a good breeder to do so - it's not something I'd look for.


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## roe1880 (Nov 8, 2008)

Kathleen said:


> Who me?
> I guess I am just the type of person who tries to teach, educate people, and I try to see it from their side. I get sick of people bashing right away instead of helping or educating them.
> I didn't really look over the site.
> I do agree... after 8 years, (now that I know this) you should know your dogs, bloodlines and standards of your breed. They definitely don't have a clue...
> ...


Hi Kathleen, by no way was I bashing you or anyone.. I was just merely stating the facts.. I understand and commend you on helping and educating other people as I try to do the same when the situation comes up....


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## ARK_Kennel (Jun 5, 2008)

American_Pit13 said:


> I personally see no reason for tied photos. If you need tied photos to prove a breeding then your not reputable enough to be breeding, and its just plain tacky IMO. As for their stock  BYBER!!!!


Yup, that's what DNA-P is for. As for the site, didn't waste my time. If it's as bad as people are claiming I hope someone has the courage to talk to them and offer to help them become educated rather then just talk crap. All that does is reinforce them to keep doing what they are doing.


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## ARK_Kennel (Jun 5, 2008)

Kathleen said:


> Who me?
> I guess I am just the type of person who tries to teach, educate people, and I try to see it from their side. I get sick of people bashing right away instead of helping or educating them.
> I didn't really look over the site.
> I do agree... after 8 years, (now that I know this) you should know your dogs, bloodlines and standards of your breed. They definitely don't have a clue...
> ...


:goodpost:



roe1880 said:


> Hi Kathleen, by no way was I bashing you or anyone.. I was just merely stating the facts.. I understand and commend you on helping and educating other people as I try to do the same when the situation comes up....


:goodpost:


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## ARK_Kennel (Jun 5, 2008)

performanceknls said:


> I too did not say that showing pictures of dogs tied was only done by BYB's however I think it is not necessary. I think it started to show up when people were lying about breedings and it was a way to show you really did the breeding. I don't know in today's world I think it is tacky but back in the day it was a common practice.


I agree, people didn't believe the breedings were taking place. Then what happened is people would breed to another dog, but take a photo of the dog tied to a different dog. That's why I like DNA-P, but you know someone is out there trying to scam the system.

On a funnier note... Taking pictures of a tie... Aren't you glad your parents didn't take pictures for proof that they are your real parents... LOL


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Sorry but DNA profiling tests can be forged as well. It doesn't mean much either. No different than paper hanging. I wouldn't waste my money on it as long as I trust the breeder and I know what I am breeding and what's on my yard I could care less about DNA p dogs.


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## ARK_Kennel (Jun 5, 2008)

Has anyone tried to make contact with them? :hug:


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

meh .. Smart people research where thier new dog is coming from . 
When i was looking for brock , i found out who had the best rep in the area .. asked them about litters , when they didnt have one i asked for a refferal
then researched the refferal and thier peds

Know the breeder your useing .. they should have a pretty deep history by the time you get to them . Then you dont have to worry bout this pooh.


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## SouthernMystery (Feb 20, 2011)

Instead of bashing them, why not invite them on the site.


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