# Interesting info



## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

CROSS POSTED :
Master of Stank Eye This was something that I've always kinda wanted to see done. There are people who insist that the APBT and the AmStaff are the same dog, and that if you slim down an AmStaff, you'll get an ADBA-ready APBT. And there are others who feel like although both breeds come from common heritage, the last 70+ years have caused them to diverge sufficiently so that they're not the same breed anymore. And then there is the sticky situation that is the UKC ring, where AmStaffs are registered as APBTs and are more prevalent than dogs resembling the old gladiators.

Anyway. I went through and located as many pictures as I could of the current top-winning dogs from each of the big 3 registries. (Disclaimer: The comparisons are not exact -- ie, while the first set are all #1 dogs, the 2nd set might not all be #2s, and so on. The UKC only gives a top 10, and when I couldn't find one of them, I had to use a winning dog from 2007.) I think the side-by-side comparison is rather eye-opening. Conditioning and ring training versus type? Also note the color bias. The ADBA dogs are varied in color (and the only registry with rednose represented in the top numbers), whereas blue fawn seems to be the big thing in UKC, and fawn or brindle in the AKC. Also interesting to note that all the UKC/AKC dogs are cropped, while the ADBA dogs are largely natural.

(Bear with the load times. I wanted to keep the pics as clear as possible, so I used PNG format, which is larger.)


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## ForPits&Giggles (Oct 21, 2008)

Great stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :clap::clap::clap:


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

:goodpost:

I just wrote/read about all this for my blog, exactly what you were stating. 

IMO and from what I have seen I think that the dogs have become separate, APBTs by ADBA standards are more muscular and smaller. I like that the ADBA maintaining the original APBT standards. 
While Amstaffs have gotten leaner/bigger, and their temperaments have been altered. 
A true APBT is gamier IMO than a staff.


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## Roxy_Nie (Oct 10, 2008)

Good Info Christie!!!!!


Thank you for posting....


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

UKC and AKC Dogs merged into the same dog! Its obvious from the pictures!


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

oh wow this is awesome! i really prefer the ADBA dogs, but i really like the UKC Bamboo Delight, the black and white dog... super beautiful dogs!

Great post!


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

the black and white dog is panda this is her second year being in the top ten and jen is great person always helpful at all the shows in Mi she showed kong for me! I agree also that the ukc and akc dogs are almost the same dog..... I love both styles and I know from experience some of the ukc/akc dogs are just as gamie as game bred dogs. I have owned bred both the ukc and adba dogs had to switch from game bred dogs as I was not able to house da dogs once i moved from nc to In all my dogs are now indoors and my original thought when getting my first show dog was they all got along and had these great temperaments ( i never ever had a yard accident till i got a dang on show dog...) well didn't take long to learn they aint that dog on different from the adba dogs (as far as prey drive and da)... some any way.


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## Ton80pits (Jun 17, 2009)

Thanks Megan she is a super girl!!!!! Thanks Christie!!! yea she was in the top ten for a moment this year but I am not showing her this year much at all. We are going for other things!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

So I know we cannot see the peds on the UKC dogs but are some pitterstaffs? I know some of these breeder have pitterstaff's in their breeding program. If so I think that is where the AST influence comes from. Also people breed what is winning in UKC. AST show in UKC and win all the time so people are breeding ASTxAPBT's and also breeding to bigger dogs to get the "look" that is winning. There are many great dogs that can CH in both UKC and ADBA that are not the big AST looking dogs. 

I do feel overall this is a great example of the differences between they "types" of APBT's and AST's.


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## chic4pits (Aug 25, 2008)

great post! i believe that yes, they are similar, but the adba is more lean and slimmer (gamey), where as you get into the ukc dogs are more thick , akc dogs look like strickly show dogs, not working dogs, jmo. 
great post!!


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> So I know we cannot see the peds on the UKC dogs but are some pitterstaffs? I know some of these breeder have pitterstaff's in their breeding program. If so I think that is where the AST influence comes from. Also people breed what is winning in UKC. AST show in UKC and win all the time so people are breeding ASTxAPBT's and also breeding to bigger dogs to get the "look" that is winning. There are many great dogs that can CH in both UKC and ADBA that are not the big AST looking dogs.
> 
> I do feel overall this is a great example of the differences between they "types" of APBT's and AST's.


Well the thing is some of us breed for the in between which is closer to the amstaff then the pit (i'm guilty of that myself) I have some dogs that could do well in adba and some that do well in ukc only my first show dog could have gone either way but I later decided ukc is what I wanted to do so that is what i breed for (Ukc structure) which is more so the amstaff look but yes some of my dogs do have game lines behind them. You'd never guess it but Kong actually has patrick and sorrells blood behind him which is why he still has some of the drive of a game dog, many breeders like to keep the game/working ability alive in the breed.... even though some don't consider ukc dogs pits.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I personally have an issue with breeding APBT's and AST's but my last breeding was a pitterstaff so I am guilty as well. Now I am a little more passionate about it and plan on NOT crossing again. I think the challenge for a breeder is to breed a dog that could Ch in both ADBA and UKC with out having to cross into AST lines. Look at dogs like this that are Pure APBT's not AST and CH in both rings.










There are many dogs that are APBT's that have Ch in ADBA and UKC. If people would stop trying to breed just what "wins" and breed a true APBT to standard it would not be so hard to CH a nice looking APBT in the UKC ring. Oh man this is another whole subject and maybe we should start a discussion on it. Not a fight but a good discussion from other breeders, I would like to know what everyones motivations are.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

I don't own any akc dogs lol never have but I do acknowledge that some others have bred them into the dogs that I currently have. For instance mistys grandma is adba/ukc/akc she does well in both ukc and adba but not in akc (she's a ukc champion and adba pointed) I do not ever intend to purchase any amstaffs and misty is probably the only dog I have that goes directly back to akc blood... I do have some bully blood as well though so... I don't have any plans to do anything adba unless it's wp but I do plan to continue on with ukc, I just don't like seeing my dogs fired up how the adba likes them...


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Ton80pits said:


> Thanks Megan she is a super girl!!!!! Thanks Christie!!! yea she was in the top ten for a moment this year but I am not showing her this year much at all. We are going for other things!


Well shes def gorgeous! I am partial to a black and white ( or just black) hehehe.
Welcome to the forum and hope you stick around!:woof:.....


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

I will say I don't dogs that do well in adba will do well in ukc depending on your location because ukc likes them much bigger then does adba you'd have to do one or the other first.


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ton80pits said:


> Thanks Megan she is a super girl!!!!! Thanks Christie!!! yea she was in the top ten for a moment this year but I am not showing her this year much at all. We are going for other things!


haha she is sooo beautiful! you're from Michigan, she is shown in michigan?? cuz im totally from michigan and i'd come see her at a show if she is showing sometime! haha!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I agree you cannot do ADBA on weekend and UKC the next. You need time to cut/add weight to do it right. BUT IMHO it should not be that way. But the dogs pictures above CH very easily in both venues with good competition.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

Jen is from IL not MI but she shows in IL, IN and MI as well as some other locations.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> I agree you cannot do ADBA on weekend and UKC the next. You need time to cut/add weight to do it right. BUT IMHO it should not be that way. But the dogs pictures above CH very easily in both venues with good competition.


I agree with you on that.


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## Hirihat (May 5, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> So I know we cannot see the peds on the UKC dogs but are some pitterstaffs? I know some of these breeder have pitterstaff's in their breeding program. If so I think that is where the AST influence comes from. Also people breed what is winning in UKC. AST show in UKC and win all the time so people are breeding ASTxAPBT's and also breeding to bigger dogs to get the "look" that is winning. There are many great dogs that can CH in both UKC and ADBA that are not the big AST looking dogs.
> 
> I do feel overall this is a great example of the differences between they "types" of APBT's and AST's.


I need terminology help, QUICK!!! LOL

What's pitterstaff?


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

i guess he/she means a i pit mixed with amstaff....


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## Ton80pits (Jun 17, 2009)

Oooo I'm thinkin maybe it would be interesting to CH her in ADBA. I think my girl is pretty darn standard and not on the AST side but the APBT side even though she does have some AKC dogs back in her Ped. She is 48lbs 18 1/2 in tall


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## Ton80pits (Jun 17, 2009)

Megan I will be in Kalamazoo, MI Aug 28th-30th at the Fair Grounds


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## jeep lex (Jan 29, 2009)

pimpidypimp said:


> UKC and AKC Dogs merged into the same dog! Its obvious from the pictures!


took the words out of my mouth agreed 100%


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## DCPitbull (Jun 17, 2009)

all these dogs are good looking dogs, but im going to have to say i prefer the ukc standard. they don't look so emaciated *cough*ADBA*cough* haha


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## jeep lex (Jan 29, 2009)

DCPitbull said:


> all these dogs are good looking dogs, but im going to have to say i prefer the ukc standard. they don't look so emaciated *cough*ADBA*cough* haha


why are they emaciated? think of an olympic runner with his shirt off what do you see some ribs and a hole lot of muscle same as those dogs unless emaciated means top condition i have to disagree with you


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## kstr0h (May 10, 2009)

i gotta say i like the adba dogs. there slim and jacked. the ukc and akc dogs really do look like there the same thing.


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## Ton80pits (Jun 17, 2009)

AKC dogs came from UKC. No other breed was incorporated to create a new breed, just different bloodlines going for a different style


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks everyone for providing the great pics especially you redsky it was a great artwork.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

wasn't my work I just copy and pasted and saved and added the pics back in lol. I did want to see what you guys thought of the info considering there or more gamers then ukc folks over here and even less akc folks although I've come to see who has what. I just like educated convo with no tearing at each others neck and thought this would be a good one glad yall liked it.

Eh jen is that a conformation show in Aug? I need to get to some pulls sigh.... Jen you making any of the other shows besides that one, I know you got Panda's breeding coming up but heck aint seen you since the MI show.


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## Ton80pits (Jun 17, 2009)

Its supposed to be a conformation weight pull rally obedience trial


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

Sweet I'll be there waiting on them to post it up what part of MI did you say?


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## cass0407 (May 22, 2009)

I think they are all different looking. I have more of the Ukc standard of pits. I also have an AmStaff and I can see the structual difference between him and my other dogs. Granted he's not full grown yet but he is still different than my other dogs. Much more of a lover too. (and very vocal lol) I never plan on breeding him with one of my APBT, I more wanted him to show him and maybe stud him out in the future.(not completely decided on that though and definately wouldn't do it until he makes GRCH)


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## sarie0417 (Feb 26, 2009)

haha..ok, im slow with the registries and stuff so bare with me if this question annoys you guys! lol...The first group on the left..the ADBA, are those all APBTs? And the last 2 groups Amstaffs or amstaffs and APBTs?


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## cass0407 (May 22, 2009)

sarie0417 said:


> haha..ok, im slow with the registries and stuff so bare with me if this question annoys you guys! lol...The first group on the left..the ADBA, are those all APBTs? And the last 2 groups Amstaffs or amstaffs and APBTs?


The first are the ADBA and yes all APBT. If you take your AKC AmStaff and register it with the UKC they will be registered as APBT with the UKC not AmStaff as they are with the AKC. You can go from AKC to UKC or to ADBA (sometimes because the ADBA has a diff breed standard than the UKC) but you can never go from the UKC or ADBA to the AKC. So the second are UKC registered ABPT and the third are AKC registered Amstaff.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

It was my work. Glad you all enjoyed it.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

cass0407 said:


> The first are the ADBA and yes all APBT. If you take your AKC AmStaff and register it with the UKC they will be registered as APBT with the UKC not AmStaff as they are with the AKC. You can go from AKC to UKC or to ADBA (sometimes because the ADBA has a diff breed standard than the UKC) but you can never go from the UKC or ADBA to the AKC. So the second are UKC registered ABPT and the third are AKC registered Amstaff.


Used to be true but you can now go from ukc to akc if you have akc ancestry within the first four gens of your ukc ped.... They just started opening the books back up earlier this year hmmm maybe the akc has realized the gene pool is fudged up lol.


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## Ton80pits (Jun 17, 2009)

Christie where did u see that about UKC to AKC??? And the show is gonna be in Kalamazoo!!!


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## JhnsnsAPBTS (Jun 22, 2009)

Oh yes Christie girl let me know where you saw that you can now go from UKC to AKC? got me curious....


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## xavier777 (Jul 2, 2009)

I currently own two of the above (Bam Bam being AKC reg. and Shogo being UKC reg.). The structural differences are apparent between the two. In the near future I plan to add an ADBA reg. to my family as well. I really like the lean muscle mass that is very distinct in a ADBA reg. as well as other features.


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## BittersweetEmbrace (Feb 24, 2010)

I've always been an ADBA girl ever since i learned about it  I like em' ripped and ready


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

How about this, if bred strickly for the show ring = Amstaff regardless of pedigree or registration.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

UKC and AKC styles change with the cash


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

So then Bruno would be a ADBA dog...Whatever that means.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Not sure what type he looks like, by the size of his head seems the bully lovers would like him


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Yeah, I've been asked if he's Amstaff before, and I honestly don;t know what to tell people. He was a pound rescue, so I don;t know his parents or their bg.
So I have no idea what he's classified as, besides a huge sweetheart,and a bit of a doofus.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> I personally have an issue with breeding APBT's and AST's but my last breeding was a pitterstaff so I am guilty as well. Now I am a little more passionate about it and plan on NOT crossing again. I think the challenge for a breeder is to breed a dog that could Ch in both ADBA and UKC with out having to cross into AST lines. Look at dogs like this that are Pure APBT's not AST and CH in both rings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This dog and Blaizens CH Ruger are the cat's meow


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## christina60546 (May 6, 2010)

Ton80pits said:


> Oooo I'm thinkin maybe it would be interesting to CH her in ADBA. I think my girl is pretty darn standard and not on the AST side but the APBT side even though she does have some AKC dogs back in her Ped. She is 48lbs 18 1/2 in tall


She is so beautiful!!!


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