# Do you attend the dog park?



## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Do you or would you take your dogs to the dog park? I'm not interested in starting a debate here. We have other threads which are doing that job admirably.  I'm just wanting to see some hard numbers on how many take their dogs to the dog park and not.


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

Nope. Now that I've gone game that would be a H*LL no. 
I used to take Tank and I took Sway when she was younger, but its just too much of a risk to do it anymore for me personally.


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## trutildeath360 (Sep 1, 2008)

NO...i wont go to the dog park....some people just have no control over their dogs.....and the #1 question i ask is...why would i put myself and maximus in that highly stressful situation...its a potential disaster..i wont set my boy maximus up for that.!!
www.myspace.com/absolution360


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## RonnyMc "Jaymo's Dad" (Aug 7, 2008)

I do in short intervals. I don't like the annoying people though and I guess I don't have 100% control over my dog when he's off leash.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

I dont take my dogs to the dog park. They are pit bulls so there is no way they could get along with other dogs. :hammer:


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## RonnyMc "Jaymo's Dad" (Aug 7, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> I dont take my dogs to the dog park. They are pit bulls so there is no way they could get along with other dogs. :hammer:


You're killin' me


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

i only take her to the parks i talked about... 9 out of 10 times its not your traditional dog park, its the HUUUGGGEEE one,and you run into dogs, 1 or 2 at a time WITH their owners. but if i DO take her to a traditional one, its just for her and her buddies, no stranger dogs.... 

so how would i answer that question???


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## Mrs_APBT_America (Jul 19, 2008)

Yes I take my 3 to the dog park only when there isn't a huge crowd. I have been taking my oldest APBT to the dog park for 6 years now and have not had any negative results from it.  I also make sure their are no rambunctious dogs in the park before I will allow mine to go in! Also our dog park is about 5 acres and has sections and small dogs are not allowed in the big dog area, also it is very well supervised so it has always been a great experience! I don't go there to chat either as I am NOT a people person, lol, my dogs are my top priority when I am at the dog park!


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

I selected "Other" because I have taken Smokey twice, and have been too lazy to go again, but feel that I will take him again.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Yeap! I do fo sho! BUT....... I reallythink about it before going. If one of them is acting like a total bitch then it's probably a bad idea. To this day I'm incident free, I start taking them as early as possible, not to socialize but to stretch their legs, it's quite a work out. Most the time they don't even pay attention to the other dogs, it's all eyes on me. Plus, they KNOW that I don't HAVE to take them and that they better behave. Now, if another dog is effing with them and they tear em up then it's that dogs owners fault for allowing their dog to mess with a pitbull. Everybody at the park is at an understadning, pay your own vet bills cause you're the one that took a risk!


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## PullDawgPits (Apr 15, 2008)

No, I would NEVER take my dogs to a dog park. Even if I had and loved another breed I still wouldn't. It seems to me like an accident waiting to happen because you have no control over the entire situation at all times. I am also a firm believer that any and all dogs should be under their owners' complete control when not at home and complete control to me means LEASHED. The dog with the best recall in the world will still under the right (or wrong) circumstances ignore their owner.

Stephanie


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## pipsqweek (Jul 22, 2007)

You have to have super control over your dog if u want to take them to a dog park. Your dog should be social enough to walk away from nonsocial behaavior. his recall should also be excellent with you. this is a safe dog to have there. otherwise you are running a risk of another dog getting your dog into trouble, or your dog getting introubled himself. 
People really don't use them properly. They think the dogpark is crazy happy time for a dog when it should be relaxed socialization time. Some also dont think that maybe their dog just isn't ready for the dogpark yet.
There should be a sign that says: No dominant, aggressive, or insecure dogs allowed. All dogs must be spayed and neutured. All dogs must be fully exercised before entering.

Although these rules will probably not be followed by most owners. If they did then everyone would be able to enjoy the dog park. No dogs would be starting problems and less lawsuits and vet bills.

I do take my dogs, but I take them with a pack of fellow dogs and we go hiking for 3 hours before we get their. and we use a closed off section. a pack of 15 dogs with no problems and most of them are pitbulls. we toss the ball and just hang out for an hour then go home. this is what i used to do when i was a fulltime dog walker.


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! Pretty scary results so far....
Rocky would be latched onto the nearest victim...NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Zues would be cool as long as no other dog tries to dominate him.. Otherwise I pitty the fool...


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing Eric. Maybe I'll poll some other boards just for more adequate coverage. Just the overall feel here, I've noticed a lot more people on this board versus others take their dogs to the dog park. I'd be curious to see if the numbers bear out my observation.


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## bullybabe (Mar 2, 2006)

Hells NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never ever. Can't take the chance. Too risky.


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## Xdime99 (Nov 27, 2008)

There isnt a dog park where im from but i took him to the public park once when i first got him and people were petting him saying he was a cute puppy, and now hes gotten bigger i took him the other day and most people avoided us. I hate that so much.


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## ForPits&Giggles (Oct 21, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> I dont take my dogs to the dog park. They are pit bulls so there is no way they could get along with other dogs. :hammer:


:rofl::rofl: :hammer::hammer: :clap::clap: :flush:


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

bahamutt99 said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing Eric. Maybe I'll poll some other boards just for more adequate coverage. Just the overall feel here, I've noticed a lot more people on this board versus others take their dogs to the dog park. I'd be curious to see if the numbers bear out my observation.


Wow! You really are bored! Who honestly cares who takes their dogs to the dog park?

Just looked at the poll! Its about a 50/50 split unless you count the person who said "other" and he actually takes his dogs! So the goers are winning!!! I guess I do care who goes! :hammer:


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## green machine (Sep 8, 2008)

I have decided that as of now, with a controlled environment and not an over abundance of dogs there ill take mine to the dog park. we have been back a few times since our first time and when they arent over crowded they do great. I have an handle on my dogs and they all listen to me (yes even the deaf one) lol


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> Wow! You really are bored! Who honestly cares who takes their dogs to the dog park?
> 
> Just looked at the poll! Its about a 50/50 split unless you count the person who said "other" and he actually takes his dogs! So the goers are winning!!! I guess I do care who goes! :hammer:


"Winning?" That's debatable. If you're so busy, how is it that you've found time to goad me twice in the last 24 hours? I'm doing this because I'm curious. I don't owe you any answers. Whack yourself good and hard with that hammer. You might knock some sense into yourself. Until then, step off.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Mongo at the dog park,um,not in this life.
I find them to be bad ideas in general but thats just me,i'll leave it at that.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

ok so I hit the wrong freaking bubble. I DO NOT take my dogs to the dog park. That is a freaking fight waiting to happen. it's not that I don't trust my dogs, I don't trust OTHER people's dogs. I have a great back yard and if i want to do off leash with them I take them to the baseball field that is completely fenced in, including the dugouts and I hook the chains over the latches ont he gates so noone else comes in.
But usually they take one look at the dog sin side the fence and go the other way. lol


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

bahamutt99 said:


> "Winning?" That's debatable. If you're so busy, how is it that you've found time to goad me twice in the last 24 hours? I'm doing this because I'm curious. I don't owe you any answers. Whack yourself good and hard with that hammer. You might knock some sense into yourself. Until then, step off.


HAHAHAHAHA!!!! :rofl: Almost 1/2 of my business comes from the internet so I'm on here alot! :hammer:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

No way No How No Pitbull of mine will ever see a dog park not in this lifetime. They have their own playground right here in their backyard and that's all they need


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## dan'sgrizz (Oct 22, 2008)

Im getting the pup a rabies shot todat thinking about celebrating and going to a beach tomorrow. He has never been to a dog park(i voted no) he is well socialized and doesnt take much interest in dogs but behaves around them. I am a little nervous about the beach but i think the reward will be greater than the risk. I will have to stay on my toes for sure though break stick in my back pocket for sure.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

I enjoy the beach. Not that we have much of a beach where we're at, but we do have sandy shores on pretty big lakes. LOL! The nice part about a setup like that is you have a fair amount of visibility out over the water, and left and right down the shoreline. When we go, we use a long-line for our young dogs, and Loki gets to be loose.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

I have only one dog that I would consider taking and that would be my American Bully..Charlotte. I would never take any of my other dogs to a park. I don't think you can take that fighting desire away from a true bulldog nor would I want to. It's not about proper training/socialization...it's about genetics. Anyone who has a superfriendly "pitbull" may want to review thier pedigree to determine whether or not they have a true pit bulldog. I think that's what makes this awesome breed what it is...that desire to want to fight other dogs. I don't call that DA..unless of course it meant "desirable activity". Aggression is typical in many other breeds and cur dogs...it can stem from insecurity and other issues so I don't buy into that whole DA thing with these dogs being a reason not to take them to a dog park. I just know my dogs better than anyone and they are cocky and ready to go in a split second if another dog so much as looks at them the wrong way but I wouldn't want them any other way


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

I'd be a nervous wreck even with Rocky on a lead, off leash I'd have to follow him arround with a break stick..lol


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

MADBood said:


> Anyone who has a superfriendly "pitbull" may want to review thier pedigree to determine whether or not they have a true pit bulldog.


I'll agree with that much,if you own a supposed apbt and enjoy taking it to the dog park theres a great chance you dont have a pure blooded or correct apbt in temperment,also the possable sign of a novice to apbt ownership.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I voted other because the posted stated wuld you ever take your dogs to a dog park. I have other breeds here so I would take DaVinci as he loves to play with other dogs. My Mikado well that is so touchy that it is big NO sometimes he likes a dogs then a 1/2 hr passes and he has changed his mind. Chalice that would have been a lawsuit waiting to happen. My sister has an am staff that I think would do pretty good around other dogs but I would never chance it. I don't have to worry about tho as I don't have any dog parks around here.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Big fat "NO"!!

We don't have any dog parks here, but you won't find my dogs in one if they ever build one.

I don't even walk my dogs in my own neighborhood because the neighbors don't know how to keep their dogs on a leash or chain.

I take my girls to the lake and a regular people park. At the public park, there is a sign posted that all dogs have to be on a leash. If I get there and see someone with a dog off lead, I leave and go somewhere else. But, most of the time, my dogs are the only ones there.


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## blondie03044 (Aug 14, 2007)

i would love to but to be honest i don't trust other pet owners enough, but there are plenty of other places where they can run and play


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## ILuvPits87 (Aug 8, 2007)

No point back yard is acctually bigger than a dog park


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Well yeah I have 7 acreas plus no one on the one side for another 20 acreas so the dogs have lots of room to romp.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

We have a fenced acre and still take our dogs to the dog park. They enjoy the company of other dogs and have never given me any reason not too take them.


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## Khymera-B (Nov 17, 2008)

I thought about attending the park, but Khaoz is still learning manners. He's very excitable and will immediately play w/ any dog upon sight, but that may piss off some more shy dogs and they'd probably try and hurt him. Almost happened when he got his shots. After he's become more reliable w/ his training and approach of other dogs...maybe, but he has play friends I babysit anyway.


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## roe1880 (Nov 8, 2008)

I voted yes.... but in reality the only dog i take to the doggy park is my yorkie...lol... In actuality she is enough of a handful in there.... I wlk by with my pits and stop by the gate to give them water at the watering hole they have for dogs but the instant people see us coming they hook their dogs up and look ready to leave.... ,  ... I move on... my wife likes to take the yorkie though.


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## koonce272 (Sep 16, 2008)

My dogs love the dog park. Ive been taking Papo since 7wks of age and duke 10wks. I personally feel it has helped out a TON in developing proper social skills, especially when it come to meeting foreign dogs. The old wisemen dogs at the park are great dogs, and it is very clear in many ways the the elders show the younger dogs what is tolerated and what is not.

Now. I can truely honeslty say i can see what some of you are saying about other dogs. I had posted earlier about a yellow lab attacking my dog and puncturing his muzzle in 2 places. This was the first attack ive seen at the dog park. I was pissed and frustrated, I notified the dog park/city, and the lady and her dog are banned.

I was right there and was able to get the other dog off of mine. Papo was only 4 mnths old so he had no idea what was happening, now if he were 2 years of age and this same thing happened, i cant say for sure my dog would have layed there and let his face get mauled.

I still go to the park as it is still a great place that my dogs love. I learned alot from thet incounter and learned some more on dogs body language. 

Ppl just need to know there dogs, the dog that attacked mine had previously attacked others at this same park, yet she still proceeded bring him.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I hate to say this but everyone that takes their APBT to dog parks are just feeding into the BSL. Yes right now you don't have any trouble but what about the day your dog suddenly decides to maul every dog in sight. It will happen it is their nature. Idon't care how well you think you raised these dogs they are PITBULLS they have years and years of DA breed into them. If you want to contintue going to dogs parks maybe you should get a different breed. I would hate to hear that anyone of you ended up in the newspaper with a vicious dog attack at local dog park headline.


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## trutildeath360 (Sep 1, 2008)

MY MIKADO said:


> I hate to say this but everyone that takes their APBT to dog parks are just feeding into the BSL. Yes right now you don't have any trouble but what about the day your dog suddenly decides to maul every dog in sight. It will happen it is their nature. Idon't care how well you think you raised these dogs they are PITBULLS they have years and years of DA breed into them. If you want to contintue going to dogs parks maybe you should get a different breed. I would hate to hear that anyone of you ended up in the newspaper with a vicious dog attack at local dog park headline.


awsome post...straight and to the point....:clap::goodpost:


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

No, I don't take my dogs to the dog park. We used to take our mix, Brutus when he was younger, but he would always end up with a nasty case of kennel cough everytime we took him (all of twice) so no more. Even if you could say with 100% certainty that you had your dog under control, you still can't control the other people's dogs or the diseases they bring in. Just a recipe for a sick dog if you ask me.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

Carriana said:


> No, I don't take my dogs to the dog park. We used to take our mix, Brutus when he was younger, but he would always end up with a nasty case of kennel cough everytime we took him (all of twice) so no more. Even if you could say with 100% certainty that you had your dog under control, you still can't control the other people's dogs or the diseases they bring in. Just a recipe for a sick dog if you ask me.


Sounds like you need to look into vaccines for your dogs.



> I hate to say this but everyone that takes their APBT to dog parks are just feeding into the BSL.


Absolutley false. If you take a well behaved pit bull to the dog park and it plays well with others, youre showing people that these dogs have more of a purpose in this world other than fighting.

THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN A PIT BULL! Believe it or not but it is true. There are so many people who THINK that these dogs are all out of control and all of the owners are thugs. Which of course is untrue. We need to get our dogs into the positive spotlight as much as possible.


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

*I vote Oh hell NO!*

*And here's why...*

*More often than they should, pit bull owners wonder about the dog park issue, finding themselves explaining to others that their dog is not a "killing machine," it is not "one of those pit bulls" and there is no reason that their dog can't enjoy off leash time with unknown dogs. Some will even insist that "you only add to the misconception toward this breed when you don't allow your friendly pit bull to go to the dog park." After all, these people argue that it is all about "how we raise them" and providing socialization is the key to no problem dogs. Unfortunately, that's not true.

Dog aggression in our own dogs should not be a problem. Good management and knowledge prevent trouble. Responsible and caring pit bull owners have done their homework and know what to expect from the breed. This breed's genetic traits involve dog aggression, to varying degrees. Even the most well socialized pit bull can one day decide that other dogs are not play buddies. It happens most often when the dog reaches maturity between two and three years of age, and it can happen without apparent reason.

Here are some good articles for basic breed information:

http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html 
http://www.realpitbull.com/fight.html

Because of the breed's background, it is unfair to expect dogs to behave the way we want them to when it comes to dog aggression and dog to dog relationships. We set our dogs up for failure when we decide to let them off leash in a public place and allow them to romp with other dogs. Dog parks are a place where people like to chit chat with each other, paying very little attention to what happens around their dogs. Posturing, body language, subtle looks and even vocalization are often misunderstood or overlooked by dog owners. Even when dogs let us know what is about to happen we might not see what is happening until it is too late. Most dog owners have no idea of what body language means, and don't know how to intervene if things go wrong. They panic, scream, yell, and hit the attacking dog; all of which often just makes things worse. A fight between two dogs can be hard enough to stop; now imagine a fight among 4 or 5 of them. In fights like these, pets and even people can be seriously injured.

Dog parks are also a place where unknown dogs are present. We don't know if they're fully vaccinated or in good health. They can be sick and our dogs can get ill as well.

We don't know if they are truly friendly dogs or if they may be aggressive. Everybody's dog is friendly, according to their owners. When the "friendly" dog decides to snap at ours, a fight starts.

Who is going to be blamed for that fight? Will it be the pit bull or the cute little fluffy dog? The answer is obvious.

Here is the story of one accident at a dog park, involving a pit bull.:

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm

Below is an article about a pit bull named Nettie that attacked a police horse, in San Francisco, in 2003. Nettie was let off leash at a public park by her irresponsible owner. The dog did nothing wrong, but she was set up for failure by the person who should have protected her. Nettie belonged to an SPCA volunteer and she was often taken to senior centers to comfort the elderly. Nettie was a good dog. This pretty pit bull female paid the price for her owner's ignorance and irresponsibility with her life. Many dogs have lost their lives the same way, due to the same kind of irresponsibility. It took her life for her owner to "get it." Like most situations of this sort, the events that ultimately resulted in Nettie's unfair death were totally preventable.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/11/23/horse23.DTL

Each time a pit bull is allowed to harm another pet all pit bull owners and their dogs suffer. One common defensive reaction of dog park lovers is "the dog is mine and it is nobody's business where I take it." This is not true. It is every pit bull owner's business as well. We are surrounded by BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) all over the Country. The news media report dog to dog attacks or dog to cat/cow/horse/sheep attacks almost every day, and with the same attention as if Osama Bin Laden had been captured. Reporters often compare human aggression to animal aggression. How many times do we hear "it was a dog but it could have been a child"?

It is ridiculous but it happens every day. "There goes another vicious pit bull attacking an innocent dog or cat!" What happens after a pit bull attacks another dog in the neighborhood or at the local dog park? It is like we suddenly own wild animals that have no right to exist. Our friendly neighbor suddenly stops talking to us and no longer lets her children come around our dog. The person we used to walk our dog with is no longer available because she fears for her pet. The two men down the street no longer come and pet our dog when we walk by their homes or rush into the house if they have their dogs with them. People ask for a ban. We did not change and our dog is the same as always but this is the result of one mistake, caused by someone who obviously did not care about the rest of us. It is a sad situation to be in.

This breed doesn't need any more accidents, we can't afford them. We are in this situation thank to those who failed their own dogs. When a whole breed suffers because of someone's action it is our business as well. No doubt on that.

Vet bills aren't cheap, emotions can be overwhelming, the guilt stays, so why to risk it? It isn't fair that only one breed is targeted when dogs of other breeds have killed or attacked other dogs. Today, a dog behaving like a dog has become a sin. Fair or not that is how the situation is and every pit bull owner needs to understand it.

The point of socialization is for a dog to have positive experiences with other dogs. When people take their dogs, perhaps puppies, to a park and something happens, they are responsible for the consequences. A young dog that is attacked for no reason won't be so willing to be friendly the next time it meets an unknown dog. An experience like that is a bad start and can often lead to problems in the future. There are no guarantees on what can happen at a dog park because dog parks are often full of different dogs with different personalities and tolerance levels. Even an easy going adult dog can change its approach after an attack. It is hard enough for a dog of this breed to tolerate other dogs and it is a big mistake to contribute to bad experiences. Dogs should always rely on us to defend them--the trust factor is important. We are responsible for protecting our dogs from harm. A dog that has no choice but to defend itself loses its trust in the owner and knows that in the future it needs to take care of itself. It then becomes fearful of other dogs and not so willing to behave like a well-balanced dog that was socialized in the appropriate way.

How can we socialize around other dogs then? Good question. Socialization is a must but it has to be done with common sense and in a controlled environment. Perhaps a friend has a mellow dog of the opposite sex and he/she is willing to let the dogs play together. Both owners should know that there is the possibility of a scrap and will intervene immediately and with the appropriate tools/techniques. Both owners will watch their dogs closely and never leave them unsupervised.

Every pit bull owner should have a breaking stick available, even when on a walk, hidden somewhere. It is a quick and effective way to break a hold.

What is a breaking stick and why it is an important tool to have: 
http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

Some information on how to break up a fight: 
http://www.pbrc.net/breakfight.html

Obedience classes are an option too. In obedience classes, the dogs are leashed and can learn to control themselves in the presence of other dogs. It is not necessary for a pit bull to be dog friendly, but it is necessary for us to help them learn to control natural behaviors. Dogs that are exposed to this kind of environment can learn to behave with some time and work.

The local feedstore/petstore is another way to socialize our dogs, because they are another place where dogs are leashed. It's important to remember that it doesn't mean we don't need to pay attention to the surroundings. Respect the comfort level of your dog and move away from other dogs if necessary. Face to face interactions can quickly end badly, even when both dogs are leashed.

Those who are still convinced that a pit bull belongs to a dog park would benefit from reading these links. Their dogs and all of us will benefit as well.Please, don't set your dog up for failure.

http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html 
http://www.pitbullpress.com/ARTICLES/DOGPARK.html









(crossposted with permission)*


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN A PIT BULL! Believe it or not but it is true.


Apparently.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN A PIT BULL!.


There are people who havent seen a labradore and apbts or "pitbulls" are just as popular *Believe it or not but it is true*.


Rock Creek Kennels said:


> There are so many people who THINK that these dogs are all out of control and all of the owners are thugs. Which of course is untrue.


That is Incorrect,people of all types own all breeds and the apbt or "PItbull"
has the majority of irresponsable and bad owners,of any breed,sad fact.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

So, to those of you who are going to the dog park, why? What's the point? Why not socialize your dog at home or a friend's house? Why not walk them or work them to get thier exercise? What's the point of putting them in that kind of danger? 

How can you have all this knowledge of the breed and still say, "My dog will never do that?"

It's like saying you won't talk to your teenager about drugs and sex because you raised them better than that. 

One day, you're going to come home feeling like crap because your dog attacked some annoying little mutt at the dog park. You're just going to want to sit in your Lazy Boy and relax after such tramatic events. As soon as you sink into that chair, remote in hand, your little girl's gonna come home and tell you she's pregnant. It happened at a party and she was too drunk to remember who the father is.

The point I'm trying to make is that prevention is everything. If you're looking for trouble, you're going to eventually find it one day.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> Sounds like you need to look into vaccines for your dogs.


Wow, okay...right. Both of my dogs are UTD on the vacc's, but thanks for the unsolicited and completely unnecessary "advice".

Not to mention, the kennel cough vaccine is not 100% effective, they tell you so when it's administered, just like the flu shot, and the chicken pox vaccine for humans.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

It is sad that everyone assumes that these dogs are bad dogs becaue of all the media hype but I still contend that if you contintue to take your dog to the dog park you and your dog will ended up being part of that media hype. Chalice was socialized I worked her all the time. She started showing DA at the younge age of 11mos. Mikado is CGC certified goes to nurisng homes too but he is DA too. Why would risk everything I have done with him just to have him ended up in the paper as another example of a bad owner/bad dog report.


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## bullybabe (Mar 2, 2006)

I just can't do it. I would be too nervous. I would follow them everywhere. Who to say someone else's dog won't try to start trouble who do you think they'll blame it on if your dog is in the middle of it.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

cane76 said:


> There are people who havent seen a labradore and apbts or "pitbulls" are just as popular *Believe it or not but it is true*.
> That is Incorrect,people of all types own all breeds and the apbt or "PItbull"
> has the majority of irresponsable and bad owners,of any breed,sad fact.


Uhhhh, ok. But the problem is they dont hear the negative sterotypes about labs like they do about the apbts. Yes, I believe that apbts are just as popular as labs. But you dont see to many thugs on street corners trying to look tough with their labs by there side.

There is nothing incorrect about what I said. Some people "think" that all apbts are problems and are all owned by thugs. Which is totally untrue. There are alot of responsible owners out there just as there are alot of irresponsible owners.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

smokey_joe said:


> So, to those of you who are going to the dog park, why? What's the point? Why not socialize your dog at home or a friend's house? Why not walk them or work them to get thier exercise? What's the point of putting them in that kind of danger?
> 
> How can you have all this knowledge of the breed and still say, "My dog will never do that?"
> 
> ...


The reason I've stated more than once but will state again...because our dogs LOVE the dog park. They ENJOY playing with other dogs. They have never (in almost 7 years now) shown us any reason not to take them. I like putting our well behaved dogs in the spotlight. I like changing peoples minds about our breed. If BSL ever made it to our area, we would have alot of people on our side. People from our community who dont even own an apbt. We have a fenced acre for our dogs and just moved them from 17 acres and still have always went to the dog park. We also take our dogs walking at other parks, pet stores, and pet friendly events. We do weight pull, shows, as well as obedience classes. The more we can do with them, the better.

Good thing I don't have any children! or a Lazy Boy!


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

Carriana said:


> Wow, okay...right. Both of my dogs are UTD on the vacc's, but thanks for the unsolicited and completely unnecessary "advice".
> 
> Not to mention, the kennel cough vaccine is not 100% effective, they tell you so when it's administered, just like the flu shot, and the chicken pox vaccine for humans.


It has always been 100% effective for us. We have brought several rescues home with kennel cough(have one right now) and NONE of our other dogs have ever got it. Do you get you vaccines from a vet or a feed store?


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> Good thing I don't have any children! or a Lazy Boy!


LOL!! :rofl:


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

> They have *never* (in almost 7 years now) shown us any reason not to take them.





Rock Creek Kennels said:


> It has *always* been 100% effective for us.


You make a lot of hard, self-assured statements. I hope you aren't setting yourself up for a hard fall as well.

One thing. When you take APBTs to a dog park, you're sending a message. That message tells people that APBTs are just fine in the dog park, and that echoes your words that a lot more people should be taking their APBTs to the dog park. But what if you're wrong? What if most APBTs are woefully unsuited to the dog park, and you've just told their inexperienced owners that they should go and it'll be just fine? Do you not feel some hesitancy to be boldly proclaiming that the two go together? If for no other reason than there *are* still a lot of DA APBTs, and there *are* a lot of owners who can't read the more subtle body language that our breed has.

ETA: One thing I've noticed in all this dog park chat. The old-heads in the breed are not the ones who are promoting the idea of APBTs in an off-leash dog park. A poll to gague ages and breed experience in those who partake would be interesting. I'm all polled out for a while, though. LOL!


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

bahamutt99 said:


> You make a lot of hard, self-assured statements. I hope you aren't setting yourself up for a hard fall as well.
> 
> One thing. When you take APBTs to a dog park, you're sending a message. That message tells people that APBTs are just fine in the dog park, and that echoes your words that a lot more people should be taking their APBTs to the dog park. But what if you're wrong? What if most APBTs are woefully unsuited to the dog park, and you've just told their inexperienced owners that they should go and it'll be just fine? Do you not feel some hesitancy to be boldly proclaiming that the two go together? If for no other reason than there *are* still a lot of DA APBTs, and there *are* a lot of owners who can't read the more subtle body language that our breed has.
> 
> ETA: One thing I've noticed in all this dog park chat. The old-heads in the breed are not the ones who are promoting the idea of APBTs in an off-leash dog park. A poll to gague ages and breed experience in those who partake would be interesting. I'm all polled out for a while, though. LOL!


:goodpost: couldn't have said it better myself


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## ericschevy (Nov 10, 2006)

bahamutt99 said:


> You make a lot of hard, self-assured statements. I hope you aren't setting yourself up for a hard fall as well.
> 
> One thing. When you take APBTs to a dog park, you're sending a message. That message tells people that APBTs are just fine in the dog park, and that echoes your words that a lot more people should be taking their APBTs to the dog park. But what if you're wrong? What if most APBTs are woefully unsuited to the dog park, and you've just told their inexperienced owners that they should go and it'll be just fine? Do you not feel some hesitancy to be boldly proclaiming that the two go together? If for no other reason than there *are* still a lot of DA APBTs, and there *are* a lot of owners who can't read the more subtle body language that our breed has.
> 
> ETA: One thing I've noticed in all this dog park chat. The old-heads in the breed are not the ones who are promoting the idea of APBTs in an off-leash dog park. A poll to gague ages and breed experience in those who partake would be interesting. I'm all polled out for a while, though. LOL!


Damn Lindsay, you need more rep points..


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

I tried, got to spread them around though


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Thing is I know RCK and the dog they have, Blue Jax is great for this breed in that he is not DA or have I ever seen him show signs of it. RCK, IMO is very capable. Could they have an accident one day at the park, sure.


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

An incident quoted from another site just to prove the point...



> Hi everyone, I was hoping someone could give me advice on what to do about my wonderful dog's recent rough-play behavior. Blake is a Pitbull-Boxer mix and a REALLY really great dog. He doesn't bark, have never growled, loves people and other dogs. They nicknamed him the "happy tongue guy" at the dog park.
> 
> However... as of last week, his normal rough play has turned scary. He has taken to running up to/after dogs, grabbing them by the neck and dragging them to the ground, simultaneously twisting the bit of skin in his mouth causing the other dog to yelp!!! This broke my heart because everyone use to LOVE Blake at the dog park, but now we are getting the cold shoulder.
> 
> ...


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Quoted response...



> The main word here is "dog park". Dog parks and 'pit bull' type dogs don't mix. You dog sounds wonderful, and I'm sure he is. However, taking him to a dog park, and letting him off leash, is just asking for trouble. Right now, you're getting the cold shoulder, but if your dog gets into a fight with another dog, even if he doesn't start it, he will finish it, and your dog will be held responsible. Not because he started the fight, but because of his breed.
> 
> This breed is, by nature, dog aggressive. It's not his fault, it's his makeup..... kinda like you don't choose to have blue eyes, or brown hair, you just do. That's how it is with this breed, they just 'are' dog aggressive by nature. You can't train it out of him or eliminate it, you can manage it, but it takes constant supervision.
> 
> ...


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

OldFortKennels said:


> Thing is I know RCK and the dog they have, Blue Jax is great for this breed in that he is not DA or have I ever seen him show signs of it. RCK, IMO is very capable. Could they have an accident one day at the park, sure.


And that's fine. There's a huge difference between one or two highly-experienced and quick-witted owners deciding to partake in the dog park, and suggesting that it's a good thing for the breed in general. I think the best thing for the breed in general is to avoid trouble, and there's too much risk of trouble at the dog park.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I only have one thing to say..... I didn't realize that we had so many ignorant people on this board. We must up the education of these people. Lindsay is right if a person that is experienced in APBT and say that it fine to do dogs park some poor soul is headed for lots of trouble and heartache in their lives. We need to make sure that new comers realize what is in store for them when they get a APBT. 

Maybe we should have a thread entitled APBT 101.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

bahamutt99 said:


> And that's fine. There's a huge difference between one or two highly-experienced and quick-witted owners deciding to partake in the dog park, and suggesting that it's a good thing for the breed in general. I think the best thing for the breed in general is to avoid trouble, and there's too much risk of trouble at the dog park.


Have you ever heard me say "Hey everyone! Take your apbts to the dog park! It doesnt matter how aggressive they are! It doesnt matter how experienced you are! Just do it!!!" No, you havent heard me say that. I've said more than once that it should be well behaved or younger dogs. Dogs in their socialization period. Dogs old enough to have their first few sets of shots. Dogs that get along well with other dogs. Dogs that enjoy playing with other dogs.

I almost did one of the adba shows in Oklahoma this year. Next year we'll be there for sure. I really hope you do the same. I wanna show you how some non-da dogs can work!


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> I've said more than once that it should be well behaved or younger dogs. Dogs in their socialization period. Dogs old enough to have their first few sets of shots. Dogs that get along well with other dogs. Dogs that enjoy playing with other dogs.


You've lamented that more people should be taking their APBTs to the dog park. A lot of dogs enjoy playing with other dogs until they stop. Dogs in their socialization period, IMO, should be carefully protected from free-for-alls. But whatevah.



> I almost did one of the adba shows in Oklahoma this year. Next year we'll be there for sure. I really hope you do the same. I wanna show you how some non-da dogs can work!


That would be meaningful if I had ever suggested that non-DA dogs can't work. I have acknowledged that they _can_ work, just that I think it's lame to breed them easier so that you don't have to work as hard in training them. _You're_ the one who seems to be suggesting that there is no use for a DA dog other than dog fighting and impressing people. But I will be out at the ADBA shows next year more so than the UKC shows. My husband will be trying some weight pull with his boy. He has yet to decide if he'd like to try and ACE him. I wont be pulling Terra, because I don't like ADBA format, but I will definitely be showing her. Hopefully she wont be in heat for the Kellyville show.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

MY MIKADO said:


> I only have one thing to say..... I didn't realize that we had so many ignorant people on this board. We must up the education of these people. Lindsay is right if a person that is experienced in APBT and say that it fine to do dogs park some poor oul is headed for lots of trouble and heartache in their lives. We need to make sure that new comers realize what i in store for them when they get a APBT.
> 
> Maybe we a thread entitled APBT 101.


Isn't it amazing? They will take us all down with them sooner or later.


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## bullybabe (Mar 2, 2006)

bahamutt99 said:


> And that's fine. There's a huge difference between one or two highly-experienced and quick-witted owners deciding to partake in the dog park, and suggesting that it's a good thing for the breed in general. I think the best thing for the breed in general is to avoid trouble, and there's too much risk of trouble at the dog park.


Right there witha sista!!!! Totally agree.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> It has always been 100% effective for us. We have brought several rescues home with kennel cough(have one right now) and NONE of our other dogs have ever got it. Do you get you vaccines from a vet or a feed store?


It doesn't really matter, as I stopped taking my dog to the dog park (breeding ground for disease - especially the community water they all drink from) and problem solved.

If I want advice on the best place to get my dog vaccinated, or _fill in the blank_ I will start a thread asking...so thanks, but no thanks.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

Carriana said:


> It doesn't really matter, as I stopped taking my dog to the dog park (breeding ground for disease - especially the community water they all drink from) and problem solved.
> 
> If I want advice on the best place to get my dog vaccinated, or _fill in the blank_ I will start a thread asking...so thanks, but no thanks.


No problem. Just trying to help. My girlfriend has alot of years experience in vet. medicine and i've learned alot from her.

BTW, it doesnt matter if you take your dog to the park or not. They can still pick up a disease just about anywhere. If you do use farm store shots, make sure they're of quality brand and make sure the store handles them properly. If not, you should just save your money and shoot them up with water.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

bahamutt99 said:


> You've lamented that more people should be taking their APBTs to the dog park. A lot of dogs enjoy playing with other dogs until they stop. Dogs in their socialization period, IMO, should be carefully protected from free-for-alls. But whatevah.


Yes. Their well behaved apbts.



> That would be meaningful if I had ever suggested that non-DA dogs can't work. I have acknowledged that they _can_ work, just that I think it's lame to breed them easier so that you don't have to work as hard in training them. _You're_ the one who seems to be suggesting that there is no use for a DA dog other than dog fighting and impressing people.


Making a dog less DA is actually harder than just letting them be DA. I have atleast 100 friends with DA dogs that work great. Non-DA dogs are not the TOP priority in our breeding standard, but is something that we perfer. I've never once said or even implied that there is no use for DA dogs. Thats just you putting words in my mouth again. THE ONLY LOGICAL REASON TO WANT A DA DOG, IS TO EITHER FIGHT IT OR TO LOOK COOL. Not one single person has given another reason logical enough to change my mind.



> But I will be out at the ADBA shows next year more so than the UKC shows. My husband will be trying some weight pull with his boy. He has yet to decide if he'd like to try and ACE him. I wont be pulling Terra, because I don't like ADBA format, but I will definitely be showing her. Hopefully she wont be in heat for the Kellyville show.


You dont like the ADBA format? It's way to easy to champion a dog in the UKC. They give you points for anything! Atleast in the ADBA you have to work and have a decent dog to ACE. Thats why when people say they have a UKC champion, it doesnt really impress me that much.

These pics are from the last UKC show we went to down in GA. Most weight pulled by 68 lb. Chili (over several 80-100 pounders) and body pound by 54 lb. Blue Jax (tied for it with Tinkerbelle)


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## shadowwolf (Dec 5, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> Making a dog less DA is actually harder than just letting them be DA. I have atleast 100 friends with DA dogs that work great. Non-DA dogs are not the TOP priority in our breeding standard, but is something that we perfer. I've never once said or even implied that there is no use for DA dogs. Thats just you putting words in my mouth again. THE ONLY LOGICAL REASON TO WANT A DA DOG, IS TO EITHER FIGHT IT OR TO LOOK COOL. Not one single person has given another reason logical enough to change my mind.


You want to take the DA out of a pit bull, then it not a pit bull - it's something else entirely. This breed is considered a terrier and by terrier standards, most of these dogs have some variety of animal aggression - be it dog, small animal or a combination of both.

A dog can still be incredibly well-behaved and have dog aggression. Our lab is incredibly dog aggressive and can still be managed with multiple dogs. My male APBT is dog aggressive and can still be managed around other dogs. It takes training, time and dedication to obtain that sort of focus away from another animal that a dog loathes. That, to me, means more than having a dog who is stone cold or a dog that is hotter than hell.



Rock Creek Kennels said:


> You dont like the ADBA format? It's way to easy to champion a dog in the UKC. They give you points for anything! Atleast in the ADBA you have to work and have a decent dog to ACE. Thats why when people say they have a UKC champion, it doesnt really impress me that much.


It varies from track to track. I've seen some easy ADBA tracks and some difficult as sin UKC tracks. I've also seen dogs work their heart out one day and dogs say, "Screw it!" the next. Yeah, it's easy to obtain a UWP, but then you start pulling for points on different surfaces, not just the rails that ADBA offers, and you get more options.

Now, I adore rails because it keeps my dogs focused, but they prefer to work wheels or snow. It doesn't mean that they won't pull rails, but they work harder, for me, on the different venues that UKC offers as well. In the end, it is ultimately about having fun with your dogs and creating a bit of healthy competition. So long as my dogs enjoy doing it, I'll keep doing it because it means I get to spend more time with them. 

------------------------------------------------

And as to the dog park thing, I have two dogs who could go to a dog park. I choose not to simply because I don't want to set them up for failure because some other idiot can't control their dog and their dog isn't safe around other dogs. On top of that, most of these places are breeding grounds for disease. I've heard of one too many dogs picking up crap like hookworm from these places. I'll keep my dogs safe and healthy and out of dog parks and stick to training centers and fenced in baseball diamonds/tennis courts.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

shadowwolf said:


> You want to take the DA out of a pit bull, then it not a pit bull - it's something else entirely. This breed is considered a terrier and by terrier standards, "most" of these dogs have some variety of animal aggression - be it dog, small animal or a combination of both.


I noticed in your statement you used the word "most" instead of "all". Right there you are admiting that its foolish not to consider a dog an apbt if its not DA.



> A dog can still be incredibly well-behaved and have dog aggression. Our lab is incredibly dog aggressive and can still be managed with multiple dogs. My male APBT is dog aggressive and can still be managed around other dogs. It takes training, time and dedication to obtain that sort of focus away from another animal that a dog loathes. That, to me, means more than having a dog who is stone cold or a dog that is hotter than hell.


Wow. You havent read a word that i've said have you?



> It varies from track to track. I've seen some easy ADBA tracks and some difficult as sin UKC tracks. I've also seen dogs work their heart out one day and dogs say, "Screw it!" the next. Yeah, it's easy to obtain a UWP, but then you start pulling for points on different surfaces, not just the rails that ADBA offers, and you get more options.


I could care less if my dogs pull 10 lbs or 10,000 lbs. What they pull doesnt mean a thing. It's what they pull pound for pound compared to the competition. We were not talking about tracks being easy or hard, we were discussing how much easier it is to champion a dog in the UKC compared to the ADBA.

With the UKC they give EVERYONE points even if they never place! You could have a champion dog that never even places! Which is crap.

On the other hand, the ADBA has harder competition, placements & points for 1,2,3 only (no 4th), 2 body pounds, and no most weight pulled award. (thank goodness!)



> Now, I adore rails because it keeps my dogs focused, but they prefer to work wheels or snow. It doesn't mean that they won't pull rails, but they work harder, for me, on the different venues that UKC offers as well. In the end, it is ultimately about having fun with your dogs and creating a bit of healthy competition. So long as my dogs enjoy doing it, I'll keep doing it because it means I get to spend more time with them.


Thats the main thing. Spending time with your friends and dogs.

------------------------------------------------



> And as to the dog park thing, I have two dogs who could go to a dog park. I choose not to simply because I don't want to set them up for failure because some other idiot can't control their dog and their dog isn't safe around other dogs. On top of that, most of these places are breeding grounds for disease. I've heard of one too many dogs picking up crap like hookworm from these places. I'll keep my dogs safe and healthy and out of dog parks and stick to training centers and fenced in baseball diamonds/tennis courts.


Yes, if you dont have trust in your dogs, please dont take them to the dog park. Most of the time the owner is the problem, not the dog. If youre already expecting you dog to fail, then more than likely, they will fail.


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Rock Creek Kennels, can you honesty say you trust all the other dogs at the dog park?

Say a dog gets in it with your non DA dogs "lets just say a GSD" are you not going to be found at fault here?

Just something to think about


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## shadowwolf (Dec 5, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> I noticed in your statement you used the word "most" instead of "all". Right there you are admiting that its foolish not to consider a dog an apbt if its not DA.


Yes, I used the word most because their are cold APBTs out there - there are dogs that won't work in any breed or classification. Are they the breed they say they are? Yes. Does it mean that they are to that set working standard, no.



Rock Creek Kennels said:


> Wow. You havent read a word that i've said have you?


Actually, yes, I have. I find many of your points mildly accurate and others foolish and delusional.



Rock Creek Kennels said:


> I could care less if my dogs pull 10 lbs or 10,000 lbs. What they pull doesnt mean a thing. It's what they pull pound for pound compared to the competition. We were not talking about tracks being easy or hard, we were discussing how much easier it is to champion a dog in the UKC compared to the ADBA.
> 
> With the UKC they give EVERYONE points even if they never place! You could have a champion dog that never even places! Which is crap.
> 
> On the other hand, the ADBA has harder competition, placements & points for 1,2,3 only (no 4th), 2 body pounds, and no most weight pulled award. (thank goodness!)


I am very much aware of the rules in both venues as I work those two and the AADR as far as weight pull is concerned. I have no doubts that it takes far less to pull UKC and finish then it does because I know first hand, however, to criticize someone because they choose not to pull in one venue is absolutely absurd.



Rock Creek Kennels said:


> Yes, if you dont have trust in your dogs, please dont take them to the dog park. Most of the time the owner is the problem, not the dog. If youre already expecting you dog to fail, then more than likely, they will fail.


I have absolute trust in my dogs. That being said, I do not trust the vast majority of dog owners and would-be dog trainers who bring their potentially unstable animals to an off-leash park and allow those dogs (many of whom are NOT even under voice control!) to stir up trouble and cause a scene that would lead to one of my dog-friendly dogs being blamed for an incident.

If you can stand behind your unabashed trust in the entire dog owning populus and the idiocies that it tends to spew forth and state that you trust - 100% of the time - every single dog and dog owner that comes to a public off-leash park then I will consider you ignorant or a fool.

Trusting ones own dogs is one thing, trusting a complete strangers' animals is an entirely different ballgame entirely.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

shadowwolf said:


> Yes, I used the word most because their are cold APBTs out there - there are dogs that won't work in any breed or classification. Are they the breed they say they are? Yes. Does it mean that they are to that set working standard, no.
> 
> Actually, yes, I have. I find many of your points mildly accurate and others foolish and delusional.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> Making a dog less DA is actually harder than just letting them be DA.


If we're talking about breeding, I can understand why. It's difficult to root out a trait that is deeply ingrained so that the dogs can be easier to live with. It's kinda like that line out of "Right Now" by Van Halen where they say "Workin' so hard to make it easy." You can put in a little more work in the training front to get a DA dog to behave, which is why I don't understand the drive to breed it out. I take my DA dogs and I train them to ignore the other dogs when I'm telling them to do something.

Pays off well sometimes. 










Christmas cookies rather than coal in the stocking for that one!



> Not one single person has given another reason logical enough to change my mind.


I'm not trying to change it.



> You dont like the ADBA format? It's way to easy to champion a dog in the UKC. They give you points for anything! Atleast in the ADBA you have to work and have a decent dog to ACE. Thats why when people say they have a UKC champion, it doesnt really impress me that much.


I don't like the ADBA format. My reason is that if my dog works hard and does well, there's no reason they shouldn't earn points. I don't agree with the baiting and double handling that is allowed, and I don't like there being 3, 4 chances to pull a weight. All that just lends itself, IMO, to overworking a dog. I don't like to push my dogs until theyare forced to stop, so I don't participate in a format that requires me to beat other handlers who might be there to win at any cost. One of the things that's nice about the UKC pulls is that the UWPCH is not the top title. There is a versatile title, an outstanding title, a superior title. Lots of stepping stones. The UWP is very easy to obtain, yes, but it's an all-breed circuit, and there has to be some consideration given to people pulling tiny dogs, or dogs who aren't as well-suited as our own.

I like IWPA and APA as well, although I could live without the line rule in IWPA. Hoping to do a little APA next year with the young dogs, maybe pick up one last weight pull title for Loki. But my main focus next year is doing a little ADBA showing and hopefully getting Loki her Open obed title. I'm not worrying too much about weight pull.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

> I don't like the ADBA format. My reason is that if my dog works hard and does well, there's no reason they shouldn't earn points. I don't agree with the baiting and double handling that is allowed, and I don't like there being 3, 4 chances to pull a weight. All that just lends itself, IMO, to overworking a dog. I don't like to push my dogs until theyare forced to stop, so I don't participate in a format that requires me to beat other handlers who might be there to win at any cost. One of the things that's nice about the UKC pulls is that the UWPCH is not the top title. There is a versatile title, an outstanding title, a superior title. Lots of stepping stones. The UWP is very easy to obtain, yes, but it's an all-breed circuit, and there has to be some consideration given to people pulling tiny dogs, or dogs who aren't as well-suited as our own.


I understand having fun with your dogs. However its called competitions and they "AWARD' titles. If anyone can earn a CH title what good is it? You want to pull for fun, no problem but dont give titles to just any dog because it got on the track. But all this about the UKC is another issue aside from what this thread was created for.

http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/6017-titles-clubs-such.html


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

D'aw! I don't wanna bump an old thread! LOL

OFK, any dog _can_ earn a CH title if they are dragged around to enough shows. There are people out there that that's _all_ they do is pull dogs, competitively, religiously, and I don't see why I should have to beat them all in order to title. Some pull their dog until the dog is falling over on its side because they want those points so bad, and I refuse to do that. I'm there to work my dog, not worry about just how far others are willing to push theirs, so I'm perfectly happy pulling with other orgs that allow you to pull until your dog has given you good work, and then quit.

ETA: I would split the ADBA vs UKC posts into another thread, but I don't see an option to do that. Maybe a more experienced mod knows how?


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> No problem. Just trying to help. My girlfriend has alot of years experience in vet. medicine and i've learned alot from her.
> 
> BTW, it doesnt matter if you take your dog to the park or not. They can still pick up a disease just about anywhere. If you do use farm store shots, make sure they're of quality brand and make sure the store handles them properly. If not, you should just save your money and shoot them up with water.


I leave the vaccines up to the professionals.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

> and I don't see why I should have to beat them all in order to title


Why do you think you should title then? Whats the value of the title?
You cant get a degree without actually going to college and studying, putting in the work and graduating. What if they just gave degrees to everyone who went long enough?


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

OldFortKennels said:


> Why do you think you should title then? Whats the value of the title?
> You cant get a degree without actually going to college and studying, putting in the work and graduating. What if they just gave degrees to everyone who went long enough?


In order to get a degree in college, do you have to place in the top 97% percentile? That's a more appropriate match for what we're discussing here. If a person goes to school, works hard, understands the lessons, they get their diploma. They don't get shafted at the end because there were some students there that were smarter than they are.

My dogs should title because they are good workers. They do the job and work hard. If they don't work hard, we either go back to training, or we don't continue in the sport, and I find something else they like to do. I don't push them to the bitter end, and I shouldn't have to. The lengths that some will go to in order to get that title is utter foolishness. It's treating the dog as a machine rather than a working partner. The value of the title means squat if the dog himself holds little value beyond the color of the ribbons he brings home.

Why can a dog get an obedience title for performing the exercises even if they don't place? What about an agility title, where it's a matter of beating the clock as opposed to the other dogs? Why should the honor be taken from the dogs who know their job and do it well, just because they didn't place? Sometimes it comes down to a matter of a few pounds, or a few seconds, and then that dog is out his glory. Performance sports should be based on a dog's performance, not who they beat. In my opinion, weight pull already suffers from the influence of people who are there to win at any cost. You don't hear near the trash talking in the other sports where any good dog that does their job well can win. Whether one is a factor in the other, I don't know. I do know that weight pull needs to clean up, big time, if it is ever to be a sport that's gain public acceptance.

ETA: Something that just came to mind. I was up for the IWPA Championships in MI in '05. This guy's dog had done really well that day, and then got to a weight where she couldn't get the cart started. So after letting her try for a bit, he walked up, picked her up and said "You still a champion!" and carried her away, petting her. That, IMO, showed a lot of heart and character. If it'd been the ADBA Nationals, they would've put the dog back on the cart, and the two handlers would be down there screaming "woooooooork" while the dog struggled time and time again. If a dog doesn't pull a weight the second time, that should be it. If a dog can't pull with one handler, or without being motivated by a toy, that should be it. Handlers shouldn't feel compelled to keep grinding down their dogs because if they don't, they leave with nothing.


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## PullDawgPits (Apr 15, 2008)

Sorry to jump in on your little disagreement but I do agree with the no baiting and one handler. I don't know about in your area of the country but around here it is usually only one handler anyway and the people who have trained their dogs correctly don't have a toy in their hand.

I do disagree with the guy walking up and picking up his dog, he should have had the cart handler(s) push the dog through so that the dog doesn't have any idea that they couldn't do it. Never let your dog fail, make them think that they did it.

I also disagree with your generalizations about the ADBA weightpulls, maybe in your area people are not thinking about the dogs first but I have not experienced that at all. I have always experienced a great deal of support from other owners as well as congratulations when a dog does well. Personally, I much prefer the weight pull in the ADBA to the conformation (although we show in both of course) it is alot more friendly.

Back to the original topic, Heck NO! I don't take my dogs to the dog park, too many idiots that can't control their dogs. I will not set my dogs up to be in a bad situation. If I can't control the entire environment then I won't be there with my dogs. These dogs already have enough bad press, it wouldn't help anyone if they get in a tiff with another dog no matter how quickly it is broken up.

Stephanie


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

> My dogs should title because they are good workers.


No they shouldn't. Just because a dog does the job doesn't mean its the best at it and that is what titles are about, or should be! In the UKC a dog with a CHAMPION title is not always a champion caliber dog. In the ADBA if your dog is an ACE dog, everyone knows that is a hard pulling dog. Now if you want to have a title of completion like UWP you could step it up to UWP 1 UWP 2 ect for dogs that accumulate points but do not place in the top 3. If you want to find out if you have a CH pull dog you go to the ADBA, AADR, NKC. IF you just want a piece of paper title, the UKC. Now Im not saying there are not some knock down weight pulling champions in the UKC. What Im saying is just by their title you will never know because the worst puller in the country will have a Ch Title in the UKC if he goes to enough shows. This is what discredits the UKC IMO. I know people who couldnt win in the ADBA so they jumped ship and went to the UKC. Last year they had a dog in the Allstar WP, so what does that tell you. Same dog in the ADBA couldnt place top 3?

Not everyone leaves there dogs on the track and yells wooooork. I for one dont, that a good way to ruin a good dog. Dont let arguing cause you make generalizations. I for one, rarely use all three fouls. If I know my dog cant do it, Im not going to give him the oportunity to fail or get mentally beat 3 times. I never leave my dog on the track longer than 30 seconds without having the cart pushed. Never!


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

bahamutt99 said:


> I don't see why I should have to beat them all in order to title.


umm...that's why it's called competetive weight pulling.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

MADBood said:


> umm...that's why it's called competetive weight pulling.


Where is it called competitive weight pulling? Last I checked it was just called weight pulling.

OFK, there are higher-up titles in the UKC. Excellent, Versatile, Supreme, and so on. If people want to keep going, they can. If someone just wants a taste of the sport, they can go for a UWP title. It's a more user-friendly format than ADBA. UKC has people there showing their dogs who try out just for the fun of it. Little Toy Fox Terriers, poodles in full show coat, Aussies and Airedales and Corgis. The majority of the time, a good APBT or American Bulldog will beat another breed, so a lot of these other-breed owners would have no chance to title in the sport if it were ADBA format. It should be a sport that anybody with a healthy, drivey dog can compete in. If not, the sport is going to stagnate, and only appeal to people who are already doing it.

At any rate, in *any other performance sport* -- and in fact, in any other weight pull club except the ADBA -- you can title without placing. A good dog should be allowed to title. And yes, I do see people pushing their dogs beyond their limits, and I think it's ridiculous. I do see people who have to _drag_ their dog up to the cart with it's tail tucked between its legs, and when they hook it up the dog pulls as though he's got a hundred demons on his tail. To me, it doesn't have a "friendly" feel whatsoever.

Weight pull needs to clean up! No matter how much we like it, it's already a sport with a tremendous amount of public misunderstanding surrounding it. AR groups call it a "cover for dog fighting," where "dog fighters network." UKC actually has a smart plan to help gain acceptance, because 1.) a UWP is a requirement for superdog, along with conf title, agility title and obedience title, and 2.) it's all-breed, not just APBTs. Not to mention as said the rules against baiting, double-handling, etc.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

As an afterthought, I'm really not trying to argue with anybody on the merits of one pull club over another. There are plenty of people who don't like IWPA, or UPF, AAPBA, and so on. Those people don't pull with those clubs. I don't pull with ADBA because I don't like the pull format. Until there are changes made, I wont be pulling with ADBA, and nobody should really have a problem with that. That's the beauty of a sport where there is more than one hosting club. I have the option to pull with the clubs I like, and avoid the ones I don't care for. And nobody should take away from someone else's accomplishments simply because they were achieved in a different registry.

I think we can all agree that if you get up early on a weekend and work dogs -- in any sport, any club, any registry -- you're already doing better than those who sit home and make excuses not to go. Any kind of "proving" with this breed is better than none at all. I personally do weight pull, but I also do other things. I like a dog that can do moderately well in 4 or 5 areas, as opposed to a dog who is a specialist in one. That's the way I operate. Others do differently. But as long as somebody is doing *something*, nobody should berate them over details.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

How did a dog park poll turn into another debate about weight pulling?
And as a outsider looking in it's always been my opinion that it really makes more sence
to have your dog pull against other breeds and on wheeled cart to really see who has the total dog.jmo.
Ive dabbled in weight pull with my former dog,i like it,although definetly not what the breed was created for,I guess a total dog does it all,i just like to see them compete in orgs where they go "toe to toe" with other breeds to really see who's got the ultimate strength.


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## Jblondie813 (Oct 1, 2008)

I don't know how I should answer?!
I plan on taking my 2 to the dog park down in Jacksonville, Fl. Its hard to find time and we now have to wait until the pups done with his vacs. 
Sooo I guess thats a yes! When I get the chance to go!


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## Jblondie813 (Oct 1, 2008)

trutildeath360 said:


> NO...i wont go to the dog park....some people just have no control over their dogs.....and the #1 question i ask is...why would i put myself and maximus in that highly stressful situation...its a potential disaster..i wont set my boy maximus up for that.!!
> MySpace.com - each - 37 - Male - PLATTSBURGH, New York - www.myspace.com/absolution360


Not at a dogpark but I was just outside with my dog. He was off his leash and another dog came running up. They were sniffing eachother and the next thing u know the other dog just snaps. I broke it up right away cuz my dog listens. But now with my dog being a pitbull...It makes ME and MY DOG look like the bad ones even though their dog started it and my dog finished it!!!!!!


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## Passenger (Jun 10, 2008)

The dog park in my area is very new (Around a month-ish). Its 3.5 acres with 6ft tall fences. The gates require a card to get inside, and it is divided into small dogs/large dogs. I have taken Zeus a few times super early in the mornings and late at night when no one else has a dog there so we can play fetch, chase a laser light, or flirt pole. Out of the handful of times I've taken him, if I noticed anyone else walking towards the entrance gate, I would put him back on his lead and we would immediately walk the opposite direction towards the car to avoid confrontations.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

Carriana said:


> I leave the vaccines up to the professionals.


Then why are your dogs getting kennel cough?


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

OldFortKennels said:


> I understand having fun with your dogs. However its called competitions and they "AWARD' titles. If anyone can earn a CH title what good is it? You want to pull for fun, no problem but dont give titles to just any dog because it got on the track. But all this about the UKC is another issue aside from what this thread was created for.
> 
> http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/6017-titles-clubs-such.html


:goodpost:


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

Pit bulls were bred to work hard and never quit. Thats what youre doing with weight pull. Proving which dogs are best trained & conditioned. Proving which dogs will work hard and never quit. Just like the old days.

I'll never forget a couple years ago in Hickory, NC at a ADBA show. Our Phoenix dog pulled over 8,500 lbs. at 52 lbs. and didnt place. The reason he didnt place was because there were 3 dogs that were better than him that day. I wasnt upset. He worked hard, but 3 others worked harder. I dont want FREE points. I want my dogs to earn their points & titles. I want the points to go to the best dogs at the show that day, even if they're not mine. I want my dogs titles to actually mean something.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> Pit bulls were bred to work hard and never quit. Thats what youre doing with weight pull. Proving which dogs are best trained & conditioned. Proving which dogs will work hard and never quit. Just like the old days.


Not even close. There is a huge difference between pulling an inanimate sled and scratching into the jaws of a killer. The two scenarios cannot even be compared. One takes drive, the other takes courage.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

buzhunter said:


> Not even close. There is a huge difference between pulling an inanimate sled and scratching into the jaws of a killer. The two scenarios cannot even be compared. One takes drive, the other takes courage.


So by weight pulling we're not ALSO proving which dog will work the hardest and never quit? Both tasks take drive. They sound pretty close to me.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Nope, like I said, not even close. He only has to pull a predetermined distance. Not only that but the cart is not trying to destroy him in the process. How can you say that a wp dog never quits? He quits when he's reached the line (or not). If he does quit, would you call him a cur?


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

I guess if the cart fought back against the dog and did so for about an hour it would be the same. I love weight pull. But as a game test it falls flat. ETA: I did actually see a track that was so hard that the cart rolled back if the dog stopped. That stopped quite a few dogs.

ETA ETA: I think it's time to lock this thread. I saw what I came to see, and the side-topics are getting a little gritty.


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