# bloodline traits



## bellicose14 (Sep 11, 2008)

ok fellas just got my new lil apbt,the owners say the sire is nevada phantom and mom is razors edge and york,can you guys tell me anything about these bloodlines or what i can expect.thanks fellas


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

Razor's Edge is an American Bully line and in my opinion, so is York (at least the stuff she has now). There are tons of threads on here about the American Bully, just do a search. 

These threads tend to get alil heated at times. Depending on the build of your dog, you may have a true bully. There is much debate whether or not an American Bully is a pitbull at all. I say no. they are not. I actually have a heavy RE bred dog and I can tell you they are not the same breed as the American Pit Bull Terrier. I call them what they are... "Bullies".

Like I said I cannot say what you have unless you had a pic of him/her. If he/she is a bully you can expect a milder, less atheletic dog than an APBT. These dogs tend to out weigh the true APBT by quite a bit and are shorter legged. Temperaments vary depending on the breeders of these dogs. I have seen some really calm and lovable bullies and I have seen unruly bullies as well. Not trying to scare you off but just stating what I've observed. If you were to post up a 100lb lowrider and call it an APBT...expect to hear some not so nice things. 

BTW, :welcome:


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## bellicose14 (Sep 11, 2008)

thanks Madbood for the info and the welcome.i put some pics up of my pups parents on my profile so you would have a better idea,but again thanks for the help.


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

This is Nevadas Phantom or GR CH PR Nevada's Phantom









RE and York lines are bully lines. It depends on which dogs are in the line as to which traits your dog may end up with. Some RE dogs look like your average APBT some are short, squat with squishy faces. The immediate parents of your pup will give you the best idea of what traits your dog will end up with.

RE has been through the ringer in breeding so its hard to know what you will end up with sometimes. Its a pretty scattered line now as far as how the dogs turn out. They've mixed in all sorts of different breeds from mastiffs to english bulldogs, I've even heard of bassets being used to make them lower and wider.

I glanced at your pups pics and looks like he'll be a nice stout bully. Not too short, his parents look like they've got some leg to them


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## SmoovPit (May 18, 2010)

Hey Bellicos14, send me an email. It would be cool to talk to you and find out how your dog that was sired by Aryan turned out. I have a pup from I'm guessing one of his later litters. My dog is turning 1 year on the 27th of this month May, 27, 2010. My Pup/Dog "Domino" Has turned out to be a nice one. Very musular (but not overlly muscle bound) Solid, toned, nice size head, height isnt bad (Not too short, not too Tall. He's actually a nice playfull, yet protective dog. Still has a allota growing to do and is pretty big already. His mother was "Mondel's Indian Battle" RE w/some York but not much York from what I can see on my 4 Gen UKC papers. Of course you the sires bloodlines. And FYI the pictures you have of the Sire are very old, he wasn't even an adult on those pictures. The sire became Huge, and of course loos less puppy like than the pics you have. I believe he was like 8 months in those pics. The Mother of the pup from the litter I have is a Blue Razor's Edge (Old RE lines) Throwing Knuckles was very close in the blood line, also Precious Jewels. Lots of Grand Champs and titles within the bloodline. Send me an email @ [email protected] I would love to chat about them for a sec. I can shoot you my ph# from there.


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

*Reading and trying to understand*

I've been reading about the difference in the game and bullies. Question is we have one dog that is blue and I believe would be considered "bully" because I think his bloodlines include gotti and greyline? I'd have to look back to be sure. But he is (to me) very game built and his disposition could not get more "gamey" I honestly don't like him because of that attitude. Can you explain a little of this for me?


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

What about him specifically don't you like? Also, I'd be careful calling a dog "game" or describing him as having a "game disposition". If you mean he is DA then that is very different to being game.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

coppermare said:


> his disposition could not get more "gamey" I honestly don't like him because of that attitude. Can you explain a little of this for me?


If by gamey attitude you mean Dog Aggression then you shouldn't own any type of bully or pitbull as Dog Aggression comes with the breeds. It is a breed trait not a bloodline trait.


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

By gamey attitude I mean the never giving up no matter what. The wanting to chase anything that moves or runs, to the point of climbing a tree or diving head first into any hole or body of water after whatever it is he's chasing. The bringing dead armadillos, neighbors cats, moles, rats and whatever else he can catch onto the front porch. Dog agression? No he gets along pretty well with other dogs.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

coppermare said:


> By gamey attitude I mean the never giving up no matter what. The wanting to chase anything that moves or runs, to the point of climbing a tree or diving head first into any hole or body of water after whatever it is he's chasing. The bringing dead armadillos, neighbors cats, moles, rats and whatever else he can catch onto the front porch. Dog agression? No he gets along pretty well with other dogs.


Well all those traits are still terrier traits. I suggest another breed if you don't want your terrier to be a terrier.


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

coppermare said:


> I've been reading about the difference in the game and bullies. Question is we have one dog that is blue and I believe would be considered "bully" because I think his bloodlines include gotti and greyline? I'd have to look back to be sure. But he is (to me) very game built and his disposition could not get more "gamey" I honestly don't like him because of that attitude. Can you explain a little of this for me?


you no like...send to me...lol...i like...


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

Thank you for your "suggestion" but it won't be taken. This is the breed. So, let's move forward here. This particular dog seems to be the only one with the "terrier" traits as you put it. The others do not. I live on a farm with livestock and cats and such as everyone else seems to get along well with everything. I'm new to this and from the dogs we have and I've been around it just seems to me that the bully types don't show as much of this type behavior as do the game types and that is what I'm trying to discern if there is some sort of correlation as to bloodline traits being involved in this. I have owned and bred horses for years and I do know that certain traits are inheireted. You breed certain bloodlines for such things as cowy or jumping abilities ect. Certain bloodlines produce certain temperments. So, I'm using this knowledge to compare in the pit bloodlines. Does this make sense????


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

post the ped.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Lone Star said:


> you no like...send to me...lol...i like...


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

"The wanting to chase anything that moves or runs, to the point of climbing a tree or diving head first into any hole or body of water after whatever it is he's chasing. The bringing dead armadillos, neighbors cats, moles, rats and whatever else he can catch onto the front porch."
That's called a prey drive. As has been said, it's a terrier trait. Some dogs exhibit a higher prey drive than others.


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

Thank you Aus, that makes sense. I've owned Weims that have had a high prey drive but NOTHING compared to this one particular dog. His drive as gotten him bit in the head by a snake! It rules his brain most of the time. He belongs to my son and I'm so glad of it. LOL...I still think it's interesting to follow bloodline traits. For instance, with horses, most all Hancock bred horses have ugly heads. Other bloodlines are noted for a good or bad disposition, easy to break, wanting to chase a cow, prone to be cold backed ect. I want to know if anyone has done this kind of research in the dog's bloodline. So, I guess I would say the game dogs seem to have a higher prey drive to me than the bully types. If that's true then I wonder what bloodline seems to produce more of the attitude?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

coppermare said:


> So, I guess I would say the game dogs seem to have a higher prey drive to me than the bully types. If that's true then I wonder what bloodline seems to produce more of the attitude?


The thing is is that Game dogs are APBT ( American Pitbull Terriers) and American Bullies are a different breed bred for totally different things.

You are talking different breeds of dog not different lines.

With bloodlines some very tight bloodlines can be know for traits however with all the unplanned and sporadic breeding of dogs now a days you are not going to find many dogs that stick to certain traits and qualities.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> The thing is is that Game dogs are APBT ( American Pitbull Terriers) and American Bullies are a different breed bred for totally different things.
> 
> You are talking different breeds of dog not different lines.
> 
> With bloodlines some very tight bloodlines can be know for traits however with all the unplanned and sporadic breeding of dogs now a days you are not going to find many dogs that stick to certain traits and qualities.


Agreed. The only APBT people I can think of that would breed for prey drive specifically would be those who use them as catch dogs and similar.


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

american_pit13 said:


> The thing is is that Game dogs are APBT ( American Pitbull Terriers) and American Bullies are a different breed bred for totally different things.
> 
> You are talking different breeds of dog not different lines.
> 
> With bloodlines some very tight bloodlines can be know for traits however with all the unplanned and sporadic breeding of dogs now a days you are not going to find many dogs that stick to certain traits and qualities.


Again, I'll have to go back to horses because that's what I know and try to relate back to on this. A quarterhorse is a breed. Within that breed there are specific bloodlines and those bloodlines can determine certain inheireted traits. Geesh I wish I could spell inheireted..lol. So, if your saying the game dogs are American Pitbull Terriers and American Bullies are a different breed, then in your opinion should a registry such as AKC register them as different breeds all together? In other words A Pitbull doesnt encompass both? Will it take years before someone can relate certain traits and looks to a bloodline? In the quarterhorse world there are foundation quarterhorses and appendix quarterhorses. The foundation ones can trace their bloodlines back so many generations of having no throughbred blood in them. The appendix cannot. This is because someone introduced throughbred blood into them wanting taller this and longer distance ect in their looks and traits. Somewhere I guess Pitbull, or Amstaff or whatever began and got crossed up people wanted to introduce something different into them for whatever reason. What a mess is all I can say! And I guess this is why this is soooo confusing to me.


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

You can look at Nevada Kennels website to see what her lines look like.
There are a couple dogs named Nevada's Phantom. But the dog pictured above is actually Phantom Viceroy(he's deceased as of 2003). There is also a Chocolate Phantom, Phantom Amethyest, Phantom Warrior Xena,etc.


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## Wingman (Oct 21, 2009)

You're asking a question that is heated on this thread. Whether or not AMBULLY's should be registered as a different dog, and in my opinion, they should. Because they have completely different traits. They're built different, they have different "drives". They're a different breed. 

Your APBT is a terrier, and like such will more than likely end up with a high prey drive. They are afterall working dogs, and were originally bred for such. So the drive you're describing is part of there breed. Now when you compare them to Ambully's, they weren't bred to be worked, so there drive is a lot different. 

Just my .02 cents.


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

I understand the heat involved with this breed and why AKC and everyone else is having a hard time of accepting them. I also believe they should be two seperate breeds but that is only going to happen if everyone quits bickering and gets together as a team and gets it done. I also understand the different drives dogs have. Prey, Flight, Defense, Fight, Pack and such. What I was asking in the beginning was if anyone had noticed different bloodlines carrying certain traits in their dogs. This would I guess be addressed to breeders or those that have been in this for a while. To make this VERY simple, the one female we have, NO MATTER WHAT she is bred to, all her pups ABSOLUTELY LOVE WATER. She does also. Now I'd say this certain dog passes this on to all her offspring. This is what I'm meaning by certain traits. Nothing more.


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

coppermare said:


> I understand the heat involved with this breed and why AKC and everyone else is having a hard time of accepting them. I also believe they should be two seperate breeds but that is only going to happen if everyone quits bickering and gets together as a team and gets it done. I also understand the different drives dogs have. Prey, Flight, Defense, Fight, Pack and such. What I was asking in the beginning was if anyone had noticed different bloodlines carrying certain traits in their dogs. This would I guess be addressed to breeders or those that have been in this for a while. To make this VERY simple, the one female we have, NO MATTER WHAT she is bred to, all her pups ABSOLUTELY LOVE WATER. She does also. Now I'd say this certain dog passes this on to all her offspring. This is what I'm meaning by certain traits. Nothing more.


Specific traits like "loving water" or tendency to be vocal, or picky taste in food while they may be genetic, are not necessarily bloodline specific. True that specific bloodlines carry a certain type of genetic traits, most of those dogs are going to be working dogs bred for a purpose, and that purpose governs the traits that are isolated and preserved in a "bloodline". Other traits that appear frequently within a certain genetic family of dogs may or may not be picked up on by the breeder. (breeders sell the puppies long before certain non-phenotypical characteristics become apparent) A breeder that has been breeding a specific group of dogs for a long time will be able to tell you. And I'd be willing to bet if it isn't an old line, the information isn't going to be consistent.


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

why do people think its different breeds and not different lines. The bully is the apbt just bred to perform differently out of the same gene pool isn't it? sorry if off topic. after all the bullies started off amstaff crosses right and aren't amstaffs actually descendants of apbts? so if you breed apbt to amstaff its still the same thing just cleaner looking?


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

BLUE PIT BULL MAN said:


> why do people think its different breeds and not different lines. The bully is the apbt just bred to perform differently out of the same gene pool isn't it? sorry if off topic. after all the bullies started off amstaff crosses right and aren't amstaffs actually descendants of apbts? so if you breed apbt to amstaff its still the same thing just cleaner looking?


Its confusing lol but I cansay one thing I have yet to see an Am Bully be cleaner then an APBT or staff, they are a seperate breed and there is no consitancy so saying that the bullies are cleaner looking I have to disagree on that one. Some day they will get there but consitance is just not there yet.


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

gamer said:


> Its confusing lol but I cansay one thing I have yet to see an Am Bully be cleaner then an APBT or staff, they are a seperate breed and there is no consitancy so saying that the bullies are cleaner looking I have to disagree on that one. Some day they will get there but consitance is just not there yet.


I wasn't saying bullies are cleaner but pitter staffs sure look clean to me!
what i mean by cleaner is that the staff brings alot more show qualities cause they are bred for looks. and game dogs vary as well alot have the same look but there is alot out there that don't look good at all and were killers and are noted for such and bred alot cause they won.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

aimee235 said:


> You can look at Nevada Kennels website to see what her lines look like.
> There are a couple dogs named Nevada's Phantom. But the dog pictured above is actually Phantom Viceroy(he's deceased as of 2003). There is also a Chocolate Phantom, Phantom Amethyest, Phantom Warrior Xena,etc.


Oh Roy I loved him he was a real sweet dog, I had the chance to play with him and pet him. He was a great dog.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

BLUE PIT BULL MAN said:


> I wasn't saying bullies are cleaner but pitter staffs sure look clean to me!


Ah ok sorry for the misunderstanding


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Wow York dogs have changed a lot. IS everyone getting into bullier dogs?


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## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

york has been bully for a long time.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

BLUE PIT BULL MAN said:


> york has been bully for a long time.


I guess it has been about 14 years since I looked at her site lol I remember when she was producing little coco colored spit fires


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