# mans debates differents beteewn apbts/staff



## Teekospits (Apr 10, 2010)

Why? They from the same strain but breed for different reason. You don't see mans seperatin the labs breed into seperate breeds. They look different n breed different its crazy. Just cause one blue it still come from a apbt. Long as they carrie that gene to make them that color. But come from people breeding for it. But still its the same to me. Somone educate man please they just making crazy decision fast. Wha animal is pure if not being breed to two or more breed that animal its self is not pure. What make it pure is the period of life it accomplish goal and breed for make it a breed snd makes it one of pure breed. If a person try to now then they consider it a mutt. I guess life its crazy. So further explain this or correct me and show other your opinion.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I will have a seat and grab some popcorn lol


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

lol not again ....


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I am going to answer this for you just give me a second


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## pit.bulldog (Jan 10, 2011)

I realize they're from Denmark so there's a language barrier, but I'm still completely lost.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Sadie said:


> lol not again ....


lolol there is no possible way you can have energy to continue :rofl:


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

you should review this topic on other threads; LOL there is new growth from where the dead horse once was......... You know, we have had straight scientific conversations concerning genomes, markers, and traits on all levels and I think I will join David and grab some popcorn this time around.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> you should review this topic on other threads; LOL there is new growth from where the dead horse once was......... You know, we have had straight scientific conversations concerning genomes, markers, and traits on all levels and I think I will join David and grab some popcorn this time around.


lol I want to see If Sadie beasts this one out lol I am done :rofl:, our convos are draining lol


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## DMTWI (Nov 2, 2010)

pit.bulldog said:


> I realize they're from Denmark so there's a language barrier, but I'm still completely lost.


I think it's Denmark South Carolina? Other than that I have nothing to say...


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## Teekospits (Apr 10, 2010)

Look people this really a lot to people some people are new and just getting on this site. They see new post first before looking at old posts. So I wouldn"t mind the humor! Just stick to the tread even if it a repost in another form of question. Thank yah'll!!!


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## Teekospits (Apr 10, 2010)

One more think have anyone been to denmark, s.c. Cause I live here not born here. I'm actually from upnorth Bear, delaware I just have family here.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Ok here it goes The Amstaff and the APBT were once the same breed box dogs ... Here is what happened

In 1898 the United Kennel Club was formed with the express intent of providing registration and fighting guidelines for the now officially-named American Pit Bull Terrier. *Later, those who wished to distance themselves from the fighting aspect of the breed petitioned the American Kennel Club for recognition of the Pit Bull so that it would be eligible for dog shows and other performance events. The AKC conceded in 1936 but only under the stipulation that the dogs registered with them be called "Staffordshire Terriers", *the name of the province in England the breed supposedly originated in. Upon acceptance of the breed, many people dual-registered their dogs with both the AKC and the UKC. Lucenay's Peter (the dog that starred in the Our Gang series) was the first dual-registered Pit Bull/Staffordshire Terrier. The UKC evolved, eventually beginning to register other working-type breeds, and later holding shows similar to those of the AKC. Currently, the UKC is the second largest purebred dog registry in the United States, complete with strict bylaws that ban anyone who is convicted of dog fighting. The American Dog Breeders Association was formed in 1909 because of certain fanciers' opinions that the UKC was not doing it's job protecting and preserving the Pit Bull breed as they felt it should be preserved. The ADBA's goal is the same now is at was then: to register, promote and preserve the original American Pit Bull Terrier fighting-type dog.

*The AKC eventually closed it's studbooks to American Pit Bull Terriers. They allowed registration only to those dogs with parents registered as Staffordshire Terriers. For a short period in the 1970's, the AKC reopened its studbooks to American Pit Bull Terriers. In 1973 the AKC added the prefix "American" to the breed's name in an effort to distinguish it from the newly recognized Staffordshire Bull Terrier.* Today, only those dogs with AmStaff parents are eligible for registration. Both the UKC and the ADBA allow registration of AmStaffs, but in these organizations the dogs carry the original name, "American Pit Bull Terrier."

Today the Pit Bull has evolved into a marvelous working and companion dog, used for purposes as varied as those it originally performed. Pit Bulls are employed as police/armed services dogs, search and rescuers, therapy animals, and livestock workers. They compete in all manner of organized dog sports, from herding to agility to conformation to obedience and the bite sports like Schutzhund and French Ring. They make loving pets for children and seniors, and everyone in between. The are indeed one of the most versatile breeds on the planet. Much of this is owed to the activities it once performed. The harshness and physical demands of the activities molded a strong, healthy, stable animal, one anyone should be proud to own.

So that being said ... The Amstaff as we know them today have been selectively bred for the show ring for over 60+ years now. Even now you can look at the Amstaff and see how they have evolved over the years. They are much bigger than the APBT solid and bulkier build. Gameness was lost over the years because of the change of venue from the box to the show ring.

American Staffordshire Terrier - Show Dog










American Pitbull Terrier - Working Dog/ Game Dog










See the difference?


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Cant do it again.... I am joining the guys with the popcorn!!!!


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

:clap: :clap: :clap: @ sadie


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## Deorah (Jan 17, 2011)

Popcorn and Dr. Pepper coming up!!!


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## Deorah (Jan 17, 2011)

Or how about some Kettle corn for variety?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Once you breed a dog away from it's original purpose after so many generations they are no longer the same breed. The apbt was bred for gameness to retain gameness one must be actively testing for it or it is lost after so many generations it becomes watered down, weakened, and eventually non- existent. I personally say after 4 generations of no tested box dogs the dog is basically an Amstaff. An APBT should come down from box dogs not show dogs. The way you determine an Amstaff from an APBT is by bloodline and a pedigree. Amstaff's stem from show bloodlines APBT's stem from game bloodlines.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

So, if I'm reading you right, IYO, there will be no APBTs in another 20-30 years if not sooner?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

No the APBT will never die out. Because it's still actively legal to retain gameness in other countries where dog matching is still an ongoing and active sport. Also people break the law and match dogs in this country anyway foolish because if you get caught your going to jail and your dogs will be taken and PTS. However it's just like selling drugs. As long as you have 2 men and 2 bulldogs the sport will never end. As long as you have dog fighter's still breeding for gameness the APBT will always be around.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Nah, we will always have game bred dogs; THE APBT is a favorite in S.AMerican countries and Russian/Slovic countries as well as the asian island in all areas game testing still goes on. APBTs are illegal in germany and they still import and test dogs there, so IMO 

The APBT in its truest form is going to be one of the worlds most rare breeds in 5 yrs, unless of course this nation flips and turns into a revolution from being attacked by our polliticians and missiles from over seas.. LOL hahaha then it will be like the old west again.. Weeeewwwwhoooooooooo! thats my flavor! I cant stand ppl turnin the only free country into a socialist police state communitarian from a democratic republic; I wish all those type of tender foots and bleeding hearts would just move to France or some other nation where the Government sets rules and guidelines for people not where PEOPLE set rules and guidelines for GOVERNMENT.. PEOPLE must have forgot.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

But can you really say that the dogs used by current dogfighters (in the US) are game? This may be my ignorance showing, but if current dogfighters aren't holding to the same standards in matching and treatment of their dogs ...?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Also just to take it a step further ... Here are 2 pedigree's

APBT Pedigree

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [560] :: SOUTHERN KENNEL'S MAYDAY

Amstaff Pedigree

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [15330] :: X-PERT BLOSSOM QUEEN

The difference in these pedigree's is working titles the staff has show titles

The APBT has working box titles (fight win's)

CH- CHAMPION

GR CH- GRAND CHAMPION

ROM- REGISTER OF MERIT

POR- PRODUCER OF RECORD

3XW- 3 Matches Won

2XL- 2 matches Lost

OTC - OFF THE CHAIN or for Stan OUT OF THE COUNTRY lmao!!

PR - Purple Ribbon not a title earned Purple Ribbon-bred dogs have six generations of known ancestors and all 14 ancestors within the last three generations must be registered with UKC

You will notice in the Amstaff pedigree there are no fighting titles not for several generations back ... Because the Amstaff is now a show dog and has been for many years.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

k8nkane said:


> But can you really say that the dogs used by current dogfighters (in the US) are game? This may be my ignorance showing, but if current dogfighters aren't holding to the same standards in matching and treatment of their dogs ...?


Yes there are still dog men today who are actively matching dogs the way the old timer's did it. Remember they laid the foundation people who wish to remain active in the sport and are about the dogs and preservation will most certainly follow the standards set by the legends of the game.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Also any legit dog match is bound by the cajun rules .. Street thugs fighting dog's are not the same thing as dog men fighting dogs. There is a big difference. I posted some good info on this in the working dog section.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Oh, okay. I'll have to check that out, thanks.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Your Welcome


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