# createan??



## TysonThePit (Aug 18, 2008)

whats yalls views on giving your dog createan or something like that?? also does anyone know any good products like that to help your dog beef up??


----------



## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

well i was having a lil problem with my pups weight and the chick at petsmsrt said she has bully dogs and tried something called "Missing Link" i bought some but have only used a tiny bit since mine is a baby still.... but from what ppl have been saying its really good. look into it...


----------



## j0emamma (Sep 19, 2008)

where can we fine this "missing link"?


----------



## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

found it at petsmart in the vitamens isle...
heres a pic OH! i put the veggie one on there but there is the regular one.. but the bag looks like that


----------



## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

I use creatine, in moderation...and have been supplementing it for about 6 weeks now, but I don't use much if any on non-working days...and I increase the amount and schedule it properly on days we work/train. I so far have had positive results, she seems to have more energy and focus when training (schutzhund) her muscle definition is really good, she also has really good turn around/recovery time...mostly I have really just been impressed by her increased stamina.

I don't really think it is necessary if you don't have a reason to use it, and I wouldn't use it on young pups...most dogs get a small amount of creatine in their diets anyway, and it would probably just be a waste of money and creatine can also be a little hard on their stomachs

I have been using *VERTEX* and really like it, and plan to continue using it...


----------



## TysonThePit (Aug 18, 2008)

what would you consider a young dog??? and my dog doesnt really "work" but he enjoys his daily trips to the dog parks where he runs and plays for at least an hour.... im just lookin for something to add some more muscle to him...


----------



## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

I would probably suggest more exercise to build muscle, the biggest determinant is gonna be genetics, but APBT don't really start to muscle up and fill out until their 2nd year of growth...I wouldn't suggest supplementing a puppy under a year at least, I mean you have to be a little patient and let nature do it's thing ~LOL!


----------



## athena08 (Sep 16, 2008)

There are also some waffers that are like a treat out from a company called nuvet. From what people say it works remarkably. It is i believe a multivitamin From what i hear from breaders This stuff is amazing. On all breeds not just pits or bullys. https://www.nuvetlabs.com/order/default.asp?sponsorid=64779 . here is the link.


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

A dog under two years old should be thin.
I would never use creatine on my dogs
because dogs have a different tolerance 
for stresses on the kidneys. You should not bulk up your dog until he is full grown and even then you should see some ribs.


----------



## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

Sampsons Dad said:


> A dog under two years old should be thin.
> I would never use creatine on my dogs
> because dogs have a different tolerance
> for stresses on the kidneys. You should not bulk up your dog until he is full grown and even then you should see some ribs.


Creatine used on a working dog in moderation can actaully be benificial...if you plan to never use creatine on your dogs you better plan to eliminate red meats from their diets.


----------



## pitbullgirl22 (Jul 27, 2008)

Syd when we work our dogs out we also use creatine in moderation. I also use Nuvet vitamins on the pups and missing link when we fish meal. We take no chances on our dogs health.


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Sydney said:


> Creatine used on a working dog in moderation can actaully be benificial...if you plan to never use creatine on your dogs you better plan to eliminate red meats from their diets.


The Chemicaly rendered form of Creatine Monohydrate is NOT the same as the Creatine found naturaly in meats. It is much more concetrated. 
But you have the right to do as you will with your dogs.
Consider this -the dogs and cats we put to sleep more often then not suffer from 1 of 2 things, or both, kidney failure and or Cancer.

I personaly don't want to shorten the function of my dogs kidneys.
Until there is research on long term effects of chemicaly rendered Creatine MonoHydrate on Canines I won't use it.


----------



## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

So you are concerned about kidney failure and cancer but you'll feed chemically enhanced, dyed, over processed, rendered garbage to your dogs?? Somethings you say I just don't understand...


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Sydney said:


> So you are concerned about kidney failure and cancer but you'll feed chemically enhanced, dyed, over processed, rendered garbage to your dogs?? Somethings you say I just don't understand...


Again ...there is a big dif between concentrated chemicals and food.
By the way How many generations of Dogs have thrived on Purina foods?
How bout Pedigree? Comparing chemicals/drugs to foods makes no sense ...Anyway you don't have to get testy. I give my little food for thought and you can use it or ignore it. The choice is yours. I take my advice from my wife and her peers, most of whom went to Tufts University and have sucessful practices. Maybe you don't agree with Doctors but as I said that is your perogative.


----------



## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

I don't agree with YOUR doctors.

Again why feed crap if there is a healtheir option.
People *can* survive on Cheeseburgers but its not recommended.


----------



## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

We have been using Vertex for over a year now and I like it. 

I have not used Creatine with my dogs because I dont think they need it. Most dogs are stronger than what the demonstrate, they are weak in the head and heart. Most dogs can pull more than the will so I dont see the need right now.

Syd, one question, why do you not continue using creatine on your days off? When I weight trained heavily I used creatine alot and 1st you had to load, or get it into your system and then you had to maintain it. You had to take it every day, training or not to keep it in. On days I trained I usually took it 30 minutes prior to training and then supplemented protein following the workout. I think I would use it daily if I was using it and make sure they get plenty of water!

Missing link is also very good, and RF1


----------



## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Let me say this to, most people are not aware of true conditioning and what it is and what a dog should look like. If say you are in weight pull and you want your dog to pull better 99% of the time your dog does not need more body muscle, it needs more mental muscle. Finding what muscle is on your dog is also a tallent. Most dogs are carrying more fat than they should, IF they are athletes being trained for sport. Its like a body builder vs a Power lifter. A boxer/mma fighter vs a basketball player. Basket ball player is in shape, fighter is top notch conditioned! No extra fat and not to lean, you can see the muscle fibers in these guys. The balance between taking of fat and maximixing the muscle is a delicate balance and is different to every dog.


----------



## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

I do use it most everyday...I just said I don't use much, then there are days I skip but that can be mainly due to laziness...On days we work, I typically feed it 30 min after her workout(and it is more then her daily amount about 2x's)...but I don't feed straight creatine, Vertex does contain creatine monohydrate


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

BedlamBully said:


> I don't agree with YOUR doctors.
> 
> Again why feed crap if there is a healtheir option.
> People *can* survive on Cheeseburgers but its not recommended.


In your opinion it is crap...in my opinion based on experience it is better for my dogs than an expensive brand that comes out as a loose cow patty.
Purina, pedigree, blue seal, diamond feeds milions of dogs and barring any terrible unfortunate events the dogs do well.

By the way ...What is the purpose for drugging the dogs?
I don't see the point.
Will your dog live a longer happier life because
of using a drug? Will it cause any health 
benefit other than sports enhancement?
Is it for you or the dog that you give the dog
Creatine? Is a trophy worth the price of flushing the kidneys
and eventually PTS of the pet?

For me it seems to be a superficial reason for the gamble.
If my dog preforms it does so because it was
built to and not because I spent a grip on body building 
supplements.

-----------------------------------
Can anyone provide evidence that Creatine Monohydrate has been tested in a long term study and shown safe? 
I am curious to see if there was any research published for the public.


----------



## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

TysonThePit said:


> whats yalls views on giving your dog createan or something like that?? also does anyone know any good products like that to help your dog beef up??


Nuvet Plus!


----------



## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

However you are doing it Syd, your dog looks great!


----------



## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

Thank you OFK....how do you typically supplement your dogs with the Vertex? Your dogs are look very nice and well conditioned. I am really new to the whole "conditioning" thing...mostly I use it following Schutzhund practice, and I don't really condition per-say...but we have started running a little bit more to increase stamina, and to help build more in the shoulders and sides...her back end is fine ~she has a big ol'booty! For fun conditioning we use the flirtpole and I am in the middle of building a new springpole so that is out right now...


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

I have found very good results with a high fat food like eukanuba or a high performance brand food and White Rice, and or powdered goat milk mixed with butter milk for an adult dog recovering from neglect or being a street runner. With puppies I blend the food ...the pups love it and swel up reall fat from it.
----------------------------
So I now look at my posts and want to say that if I offended anyone I am sorry...but I maintain that I would not use creatine on a dog.


----------



## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

The only supplement that I do is some occasional powdered Solid Gold multivitamins, and that's only because I had a bunch left from a while back. Olive oil a few times a week to make the coat shine. But seriously, genetics and good diet are all we need. Missing Link was a big waste of money, and I don't see the point in adding in anything else. You can't make a genetically weak dog strong by juicing them up, and a genetically strong dog wont need the help.

Oh yeah. Loki gets glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM because of a leg injury she sustained a few years back. That I consider necessary to help her stay comfortable and mobile. But adding stuff just to beef a dog up, no. Feed 'em right and exercise 'em, yes.

JMO.


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

OldFortKennels said:


> We have been using Vertex for over a year now and I like it.
> 
> I have not used Creatine with my dogs because I dont think they need it. Most dogs are stronger than what the demonstrate, they are weak in the head and heart. Most dogs can pull more than the will so I dont see the need right now.
> 
> ...


Andy what is vertex used for? and what is a good age to use it on your canine? Is it more for working dogs training for weight pull? Or can you use it while conditioning ?


----------



## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I just wanted to throw in:
Creatine is a substance found in wild meat, taken straight out of the muscle. Wild dogs get a hell of alot more than domestics. Anyway, it's not a muscle builder, per say, it's more of a muscle recovery chemical. Creatine is what you get from feeding protein, so adding it to your dogs diet couldn't hurt at all. You don't get results from not working, and it's not a synthetic drug so it won't get your dogs all wound up. All you'd be doing by adding creatine would be giving your dog somthing that's lacking, as domestic dogs do not take in the amount of meat they do in the wild. If you choose to work your dog while on creatine you may find the dog building nuscle fastert because the creatine mends the ripped muscles together faster. Okay, that's all I have on the matter.


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Just some info about creatine for those who don't know what it is and what It does I work out with a personal trainer and I use it per his recommendation it can be used to repair muscles after they have been heavily worked if your body does not store enough creatine to do so and it also helps to support muscle growth... I personally have not used it on canines but I have heard of many people who do with a heavily worked dogs and have great results with it but I would advise anyone doing it to make sure they know what they are doing and what the proper amounts are to be given.

*Unlike most supplements that athletes use, creatine is neither a vitamin, mineral, herb nor hormone. It is a naturally occurring amino acid that is found in our body that has the chemical name methyl guanidine-acetic acid (see Figure 1 below). As most of you are already aware, amino acids are the building blocks of proteins. The majority of creatine (about 95%) is located in the skeletal muscle system, and the remaining 5% is in the brain, heart and testes. We acquire most of the creatine in our system by consuming meats and fish as well as dairy products, egg whites, nuts and seeds. Although the human body has a way of storing very high amounts of creatine to enhance recovery and muscle power, it is quite challenging to consume enough food to provide the same amount of creatine that using supplements will. In the event that you do not consume enough creatine to suit your body's requirements, your body can synthesize it from the amino acids arginine, glycine and methionine. This manufacturing process takes place in the kidneys, liver and pancreas.*

*Although creatine's role in the energy production process is its most notable trait, there is evidence that creatine can stimulate muscle growth. It does this in a couple of different ways. By allowing you to perform more work as a result of additional energy, increased protein synthesis is stimulated. Secondly, when an abundance of creatine phosphate is stored n the muscle, the muscle will hold more water in its cells and become what is known as "volumized" or "super-hydrated." The more volumized a muscle is, it will promote the synthesis of protein as well as deter the breakdown of protein. Volumizing the muscle will also create an environment where an increased level of Glycogen synthesis will take place. Increased protein synthesis along with training will lead to muscle growth. There is also scientific evidence that shows supplementation with creatine causes muscle tears to repair themselves quicker.*


----------



## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

SadieBlues said:


> Andy what is vertex used for? and what is a good age to use it on your canine? Is it more for working dogs training for weight pull? Or can you use it while conditioning ?


Sadie I posted a link for it on the first page... That page has some pretty good information on the product.

*Vertex*


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks Sydney


----------



## Wootness (Aug 4, 2008)

Just a note...if you are feeding your dogs a good food then you dont need the supplements


----------



## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

agreed...but like previously stated the creatine really does help with stamina and recovery time, and when really working a dog why wouldn't you want to help speed up the recovery time...

especially for example a dog who has two weight pull competitions in one weekend...


----------



## PADogman (May 15, 2008)

Creatine isnt really needed when conditioning a dog.But if one wants to use it they should know the proper dosage to give.
I used it on my dogs years ago.I believe you give 1 tsp for a 40lbs dog disolved in 1 cup of luke warm water immediatly after the dogs workout.
Then feed 20-30 minutes later...this gives the creatine time to burn fat.
If you mix it with his feed you might as well flush it down the toilet cause it's not gonna work properly.But IMO creatine is over rated.


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

PADogman said:


> Creatine isnt really needed when conditioning a dog.But if one wants to use it they should know the proper dosage to give.
> I used it on my dogs years ago.I believe you give 1 tsp for a 40lbs dog disolved in 1 cup of luke warm water immediatly after the dogs workout.
> Then feed 20-30 minutes later...this gives the creatine time to burn fat.
> If you mix it with his feed you might as well flush it down the toilet cause it's not gonna work properly.But IMO creatine is over rated.


Creatine does not burn fat. 
It is an ingredient in the formation of ATP and fills muscles with fliuds to help recovery. In humans it has been shown the best way to increase the uptake of the compound is by creating an insulin spike by drinking a 100 grams of glucose with the creatine.


----------



## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Agreed! Man, I can't believe you were just gonna leave!


----------



## keelahsMOM (Aug 14, 2008)

is this stuff a drug for dog's? I don't know much about this but I was just wondering. Never heard of it untill I came on here. Im new sorry!


----------



## PADogman (May 15, 2008)

Sampsons Dad said:


> Creatine does not burn fat.
> It is an ingredient in the formation of ATP and fills muscles with fliuds to help recovery. In humans it has been shown the best way to increase the uptake of the compound is by creating an insulin spike by drinking a 100 grams of glucose with the creatine.


The reason you give the dog water and creatine first is to allow the dog the time to burn fat and build muscle after his workout. A dog will actually burn more fat after the workout than during it, because his glycogen levels in his muscles are all used up. This is when the dog gets too tired to work anymore, and it is precisely at this point that the body will look for an energy source to replace the lost glycogen in the muscles.

If you feed a dog at this point of glycogen depletion, especially if you feed sugar, then this is what the body will use for glycogen replacement and so it will NOT burn fat. However, if you give him just water and creatine, with NO added sugar, his body will have no other choice but to burn fat, and yet it can still use the creatine. Therefore, sugar is not needed with the creatine after the workout, like bodybuilders do, as (even though it does build muscle better), it also prevents fat loss.


----------



## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

PADogman said:


> The reason you give the dog water and creatine first is to allow the dog the time to burn fat and build muscle after his workout. A dog will actually burn more fat after the workout than during it, because his glycogen levels in his muscles are all used up. This is when the dog gets too tired to work anymore, and it is precisely at this point that the body will look for an energy source to replace the lost glycogen in the muscles.
> 
> If you feed a dog at this point of glycogen depletion, especially if you feed sugar, then this is what the body will use for glycogen replacement and so it will NOT burn fat. However, if you give him just water and creatine, with NO added sugar, his body will have no other choice but to burn fat, and yet it can still use the creatine. Therefore, sugar is not needed with the creatine after the workout, like bodybuilders do, as (even though it does build muscle better), it also prevents fat loss.


Burning fat takes place after Glycogen stores are used...this is true, however the fat burning happens under aerobic stress. Not at rest. At rest the body converts proteins and fats in to new glycogen stores when glucose is absent.
More muscle will burn more calories because the resting metabolic rate is elevated. But as I posted #1 creatine it self does not burn fat, and rest does not burn fat.


----------

