# Wanting to understand the pit breeds better



## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

Since I adopted Quinton I have had more interest in reading up on the breed etc. In doing so I am a little confused. In trying to understand pitbulls better and working at a shelter, there is sometimes confusion on is this dog a pitbull or ? Usually if it looks like a pitbull we mark it as such, but I have learned (not sure how acurate this is though) that there are 3 breeds of 'pits'. 

American Pitbull Terrier - UKC
Staffordshire Bull Terrier - AKC & UKC
American Staffordshire Terrier - AKC & UKC but known in USA as Staffordshire Bull Terrier and UKC as American Pitbull Terrier???


From what I read they all came from the same dogs, but were seperated into 3 groups and bred for different traits. In the USA only the Staffordshire Bull Terrier was accepted, then later changed to the American Staffordshire Terrier. And in the UKC was accepted as APBT. :hammer: I'm confused! That would really only be two breeds if they changed the name... Please tell me is there just the two breeds APBT and SBT? Also what is the best way to tell them apart?

I know these are dumb questions, I am sorry! 
Thanks much!


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

Oh this is a long discussed subject... Good for you posting this...

UKC and ADBA were both formed originally and specifically for the APBT and the AKC later accepted registrants but only if they registered as Staffordshire Terriers... Then they changed the name later to the AST so as to not confuse anyone between the ST and the (at the time) newly recognized Staffordshire Bull Terrier... History (in some cases) states that the APBT, AST, ST, SBT were all related but there are many many many takes on this breeds history... Believe me I know since I am working on a research paper on this breed right now.

Physically both were identical for many years but the AST went more "show" look and the APBT is a athletic more "Agile" look... If that makes sense...


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

SARGEnNIKITA said:


> Oh this is a long discussed subject... Good for you posting this...
> 
> UKC and ADBA were both formed originally and specifically for the APBT and the AKC later accepted registrants but only if they registered as Staffordshire Terriers... Then they changed the name later to the AST so as to not confuse anyone between the ST and the (at the time) newly recognized Staffordshire Bull Terrier... History (in some cases) states that the APBT, AST, ST, SBT were all related but there are many many many takes on this breeds history... Believe me I know since I am working on a research paper on this breed right now.
> 
> Physically both were identical for many years but the AST went more "show" look and the APBT is a athletic more "Agile" look... If that makes sense...


When I think APBT I think of a sleek, taller dog. 
AST I think blocker head and shorter?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

*AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER*
UKC Breed Standard
United Kennel Club: American Pit Bull Terrier (Revised November 1, 2008)
ADBA
American Dog Breeders Association
NKC Breed Standard
apbt/astb standard
AADR Breed Standard- This registry will except the registration of non papered dogs, however they do also have legitimately registered dogs and do hold events.
ALL AMERICAN DOG REGISTRY,LLC

The APBT comes in two different "styles" 
UKC Standard Show/ working dogs- Some UKC Style dogs also do well when conditioned for the ADBA
















ADBA Standard Dogs- These dogs are more to the original Game style dog.

















*
AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER*
AKC Standard- This standard calls for a defiantly black nose however blue nosed dogs are excepted.
American Kennel Club - American Staffordshire Terrier
NKC Standard
apbt/astb standard

















*AMERICAN BULLY*
This is a newer breed stemming from the APBT. You will still often find them UKC and or ADBA registered as APBTS or Amstaffs, however they do know have their own registry.This breed since it is newer often lacks consistency. You will see some very well bred and proportioned and others with serious faults and lack of body type. 
They also come in 3 variations, Smaller ones referred to as Pocket Bullies, Standard size Bullies and XXL bullies.
ABKC
American Bully Kennel Club - 2008
AADR
ALL AMERICAN DOG REGISTRY,LLC









*STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER*
AKC Breed Standard
American Kennel Club - Staffordshire Bull Terrier
UKC Breed Standard
United Kennel Club: Staffordshire Bull Terrier
NKC Breed Standard
Staffordshire Bull Terrier

















The APBT is the *ONLY* Pitbull however each of these breeds gets referred to as pitbulls and in the eyes of the media and BSL each of these breeds are classified and share the same fate as pitbulls.

Each breed has bloodlines, however you can not tell a bloodline by the look of a dog, you must have papers from a registry to know what bloodlines you have.

These dogs come in several colors and some can have either black, red, or blue noses, however this has nothing to do with breed, quality, pureness, or bloodline.

Some bloodlines like OFRN for example do produce red nosed dogs, but that doesn't mean a red nosed dog is of the OFRN bloodline.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

There is only one American pit bull terrier then there is an American staffordshire terrier which is a totally different breed and then there is a staffordshire bull terrier which is again a totally different breed. They are not the same, the do not look the same and they do not behave the same.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> *AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER*
> UKC Breed Standard
> United Kennel Club: American Pit Bull Terrier (Revised November 1, 2008)
> ADBA
> ...


Excellent posting you should sticky that


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## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

I second the sticky motion


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

Holly that is an excellent post. You broke it down with photos very well. Showing someone the similarities between the four distinct breeds an also the obvious differences between the breeds. :clap:


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

It is a sticky in the Goldmine that no one ever visits with all our other very informational threads. However since it is at the bottom of the forum no one ever knows its there.

http://www.gopitbull.com/goldmine/


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

Ok so they are 4 different breeds. Wow confusing. lol. So really in a shelter situation you do the best ya can. 
Shorter and blocker with larger head is American Staffordshire Terrier. 
Shorter, mediumish blocky head less muscle is Staffordshire Terrier. 
And APBT is taller, slimmer with a narrower head. Do I got it?
Not going into the newer one.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

teasha said:


> Ok so they are 4 different breeds. Wow confusing. lol. So really in a shelter situation you do the best ya can.
> Shorter and blocker with larger head is American Staffordshire Terrier.
> Shorter, mediumish blocky head less muscle is Staffordshire Terrier.
> And APBT is taller, slimmer with a narrower head. Do I got it?
> Not going into the newer one.


The APBT is shorter than the Amstaff. Some UKC versions have more height but over all the APBT is a rather small dog. Well thats what is is sub posted to be.

There is only *ONE* breed of Pitbull and that is the American Pitbull Terrier.

However along with the other breeds shown there are at least 20 breeds that are commonly confused with the APBT.

These are all separate breeds of DOG, not breeds of pitbulls.


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

The first is listed as a pitbull mix second as lab. The second is not lab. But what do you think?


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

teasha said:


> The first is listed as a pitbull mix second as lab. The second is not lab. But what do you think?


second dog is a APBT mongrel, lab, dobie, dalmation take your pick LOL...

You should post a chart for indentity confusion each breed has 3 extremes photos of those dogs and those extremes would help... As a former vet tech for the SPCA you have your hands full.. There are more pitbull mongrels and pitbulls than any other dog and people want to save them and call them labs, even beagle mixes ROFL and DA is not HA APBTs are supposed to be DA in general its part of the traits to expect, most I worked with thought DA dogs were untrustworthy :hammer:

Its like snoopy and droopy both were not beagles they were little APBTs for whatever reason they call the dogs beagles.. have you ever seen an all white beagle with black ears and a black whip like tail?


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> second dog is a APBT mongrel, lab, dobie, dalmation take your pick LOL...
> 
> You should post a chart for indentity confusion each breed has 3 extremes photos of those dogs and those extremes would help... As a former vet tech for the SPCA you have your hands full.. There are more pitbull mongrels and pitbulls than any other dog and people want to save them and call them labs, even beagle mixes ROFL Its like snoopy and droopy both were not beagles they were little APBTs for whatever reason they call the dogs beagles.. have you ever seen an all white beagle with black ears and a black whip like tail?


No I have not. At our shelter we try to be as honest as we can. That's why I posted this gals photo. #2 one I'm speaking of...

I'll find some good photos and post them here to be sure  GREAT idea. Thank you.


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

american_pit13 said:


> These are all separate breeds of DOG, not breeds of pitbulls.


I understand that  Thank you!


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

teasha said:


> Ok so they are 4 different breeds. Wow confusing. lol. So really in a shelter situation you do the best ya can.
> Shorter and blocker with larger head is American Staffordshire Terrier.
> Shorter, mediumish blocky head less muscle is *Staffordshire Terrier*.
> And APBT is taller, slimmer with a narrower head. Do I got it?
> Not going into the newer one.


Holly answered this one but if I can make one interjection I'll be happy. When talking about the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, don't drop out the word "Bull". If you do it becomes an Amstaff (AST). Amstaffs are Staffordshire Terriers.

Sorry, that always bugs me.


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## ralford08 (Oct 7, 2008)

I think a picture and name of each breed should show up under the random pictures as soon as you login that way everyone new to this site could see and click on it to get detailed information about each one. I think it would educate a lot of new people and could divert a lot of future frustration. There are a lot of people who get upset when they find out that their pitbull is not necessarily a pitbull.


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

teasha said:


> Ok so they are 4 different breeds. Wow confusing. lol. So really in a shelter situation you do the best ya can.
> Shorter and blocker with larger head is American Staffordshire Terrier.
> Shorter, mediumish blocky head less muscle is Staffordshire Terrier.
> And APBT is taller, slimmer with a narrower head. Do I got it?
> Not going into the newer one.


Unlike most breeds, the APBT was bred for an invisible trait of gameness. The wiliness never to quit.

The only way to know if is an APBT is to see the papers, and talk with the owner to know if the dog was from a trustworthy breeder.

They can look bully, like a hound and like a Staffy.
Its whats in side is what counts.
They have the best temperament towards people (as well as cats and other animals if introduced when young) and like blankets and pillows!:woof:


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

Is there a certain age before you can really tell what breed the dog is (APBT, SBT, ST, AST)?


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

max said:


> Is there a certain age before you can really tell what breed the dog is (APBT, SBT, ST, AST)?


Yep. As soon as you look at the ped. Some people will tell you they can tell 100% which one is which every time but there will always be some overlap in between the breeds. Some are pretty obvious but others aren't so clear.

P.S. ST and AST are the same thing.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

I would just like to trow this in here cause this breed gets confused with this group as well.

This big boy here is Mack Truck










Every time I walked him people would say holy cow that's a big pit. He has absloutely no pit in him at all. He is a pure bred American Bulldog. You will be able to tell them from pits as they are much much bigger. Mack was about 130lbs. I do work at the shelter here in town and I have seen quite a few of them labeled as APBT. No APBT or AMStaff will ever be that big.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

NorCalTim said:


> Unlike most breeds, the APBT was bred for an invisible trait of gameness. The wiliness never to quit.
> 
> The only way to know if is an APBT is to see the papers, and talk with the owner to know if the dog was from a trustworthy breeder.
> 
> ...


:goodpost::clap:

UKC required 2 wins before the ablility to register an APBT, WHAT HAPPENED? Just cause paper rules change doesn't mean the dog changes, thus the ADBA has maintained the original game bred APBT.


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

Wow i have learned so much! When I get time I will post pics here and see if they are good for reference photos at work. Thanks guys


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