# Razors Edge



## Adjecyca

Do you the Razors edge bullies only have APBT in them and AmStaffie in them?

According to the Razors edge website, they have never cross bred with any other breeds.

But there have been rumors that bull dogs were used to create the dogs look

What do you think?

















































RAZORSEDGE INC.

They say 
"NOT re-introduce Bulldogs, but breed to pull heavier traits from within the existing breed. Mix breeding was NEVER an idea or option! You can breed for traits already prevalent to pull desired genes. Contrary to rumors, only Pits and Staffs which came from the same original American Pit Bull Terrier were used in the creation Razors Edge, NEVER another breed. "

If you were to ask me i don't see how the bullies came from


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## Wac137

lol ya I see bulldog regardless of what that says


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## PatienceFlame

yes, as I can recall I have heard the same thing and wondered.

I cant see how you get a bulldog shape out of the real apbt, BUT it is possable to actually breed traits in to a dog you wish to bring out not to this extreme however 

I am sure that they added a little spice of bulldog crossing to get that look.
50%bull 50%pit= bully

atleast this is what I was told and have read


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## Sampsons Dad

lol..if you believe that....i have a bridge for sale.


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## Indigo Bully Connection

And? The point of this thread is? A beated to smitherines subject. My Razors Edge dogs are getting tired of the same old crap. Look at my avatar... Looks pretty Am Staff APBT to me.


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## Adjecyca

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> And? The point of this thread is? A beated to smitherines subject. My Razors Edge dogs are getting tired of the same old crap. Look at my avatar... Looks pretty Am Staff APBT to me.


The Point of the thread was for people to post their opinions, i was interested in knowing what other people think.I personally don't see why you took offense to it, I wasn't saying anything bad about the animals. I think a lot of them are very cute like this one









what a smile.


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## Wac137

the bully topic is always an argument waiting to happen it seems like, I try to stay away. I personally like both the APBT and Bully dogs regardless of how others see them and I'll leave that at that.


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## Sampsons Dad

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> And? The point of this thread is? A beated to smitherines subject. My Razors Edge dogs are getting tired of the same old crap. Look at my avatar... Looks pretty Am Staff APBT to me.


The point would be to laugh at the idea of certain dogs not being mixed.
To say a pocket bully has no french bulldog or english bull dog is just insulting to people who know breed standards. I have nothing against mixed dogs at all.
What I dont like is people not keeping it real. The old RE stuff is probably pure APBT and AST (and Beautiful)

but todays pocket Bullies pure pit bulls?....C'mon Son!


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## mygirlmaile

Wow...









You also pulled pics of some of the most extreme Bullies. Be fair if youre going to show examples. Maile is 100% RE and I see NOTHING in her but APBT and Staffy. If youre going to start an argument...do so fairly. Those Bullies you show are extreme, not a prime example of an RE Bully.


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## Adjecyca

mygirlmaile said:


> Wow...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You also pulled pics of some of the most extreme Bullies. Be fair if youre going to show examples. Maile is 100% RE and I see NOTHING in her but APBT and Staffy. If youre going to start an argument...do so fairly. Those Bullies you show are extreme, not a prime example of an RE Bully.


I got the pictures from the razors edge myspace page.

all of the dogs on it look like that

Razors Edge's Pictures - MySpace Photos

I didn't realize that was unfair


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## mygirlmaile

Not ALL of them. Dave has stated time and time again RE is Staffy X APBT. Who knows what other people have done to the breed, however, the CREATOR of the breed and RE has told us the formula to his Bullies. Honestly, whos to say that certain dogs x certain dogs DONT create a shorter, thicker dog...and then breeding those shorter and thicker dogs then creates the Bullies you see now.

Everyone knows that I stand up for the breed. If you want to have an informational debate about something, please, by all means...but dont be selective in the information you display to just support your side...:\


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## Adjecyca

Excuse me then,
the *majority *of them look like that.
i don't see how i only displayed information to support my side though
as i posted what they said about the breeding and the link to the website that explains the entire thing 
the only information i posted about my side was
"If you were to ask me i don't see how the bullies came from "

I didn't mean to start an argument, all i wanted to do was hear opinions.
I'm sorry if you were offended by the post.

But i was just asking peoples opinions, as i expressed my own.


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## mygirlmaile

Fair enough. And that is my opinion.

Old school RE dogs look different than the dogs you see today. And think logically about it. You have an APBT x Staffy, breed em. You get thicker dogs. Then you breed a thicker dog to a thicker dog, there by getting a THICKER dog, and so forth...thus establishing the RE dogs you see today. 

RE dogs didnt start out looking like some do now. They were more AmStaffy in appearance...more of what would be considered a Classic Bully now...meaning they fit the UKC Standard for an APBT to an extent.

I apologize for jumping down your throat...Im quite defensive about Bullies. This is just a topic that has been beaten to death and usually ends badly.


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## Adjecyca

I edited the post to try and make it more "fair"


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## Adjecyca

No need to be defensive,
I wasn't saying anything bad about them 
at least i wasn't trying too. I like Bullies, i also like the athletic pittie.

of course that's possible but when i see dogs like this
(obviously this is an extreme example)









it makes me question.


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## mygirlmaile

Adjecyca said:


> No need to be defensive,
> I wasn't saying anything bad about them
> at least i wasn't trying too. I like Bullies, i also like the athletic pittie.
> 
> of course that's possible but when i see dogs like this
> (obviously this is an extreme example)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it makes me question.


yea...
im not a fan of that. i stand behind well conformed bullies...not...droopy dogs. lol. i like me some standard/classic bullies.

my two favorite (besides maile of course):

Ooh Rah









Opha


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## Adjecyca

They're pretty

I think these guys are uber cute


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## PatienceFlame

mygirlmaile said:


> yea...
> im not a fan of that. i stand behind well conformed bullies...not...droopy dogs. lol. i like me some standard/classic bullies.
> 
> my two favorite (besides maile of course):
> 
> Ooh Rah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opha


ARG! they are cute buggers. I told myself. NO, no you can't have a bully but you just show the best dang looking ones I've ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am looking into getting another dog. apbt but DANGIT! I think I am going to fly out of the nest and swoop one of those standard bullies up! >.<
Im not even a fan of those dogs but ugh, look at those bods!


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## mygirlmaile

Adjecyca said:


> They're pretty
> 
> I think these guys are uber cute


I agree. Very cute!!!



RileyRoo said:


> ARG! they are cute buggers. I told myself. NO, no you can't have a bully but you just show the best dang looking ones I've ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am looking into getting another dog. apbt but DANGIT! I think I am going to fly out of the nest and swoop one of those standard bullies up! >.<
> Im not even a fan of those dogs but ugh, look at those bods!


LMFAO. Nothin' like a good lookin Bully to change your mind.  LOL. I love those two dogs...and I love their owner...haha. Im hoping to get a pup off one of those dogs in the future.


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## PatienceFlame

mygirlmaile said:


> I agree. Very cute!!!
> 
> LMFAO. Nothin' like a good lookin Bully to change your mind.  LOL. I love those two dogs...and I love their owner...haha. Im hoping to get a pup off one of those dogs in the future.


you have no idea! lol, what line are they? My boyfriend and I already got into it about how im NOT getting another puppy. mhm,but I really want a good looking, show quality dog to do events with. So really....my man has no say in the 'pup' issue. hehe, cause I will win!

Im atleast looking into paying $2000 I know that is cheap for a quality dog but we will see what I can pull together. =)

maybe in a year to two I will be able to find the perfect breeder, perfect dog.


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## Sampsons Dad

Well one things for sure....they capitalized on their fame and have turned the name into a franchise.


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## Nizmo

Adjecyca said:


> No need to be defensive,
> I wasn't saying anything bad about them
> at least i wasn't trying too. I like Bullies, i also like the athletic pittie.
> 
> of course that's possible but when i see dogs like this
> (obviously this is an extreme example)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it makes me question.


:rofl::rofl: hhahahahaha


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## Firehazard

Sampsons Dad said:


> Well one things for sure....they capitalized on their fame and have turned the name into a franchise.


I know right?! I know the dog men have priceless game dogs, but I didn't know a muscle bound show dog was worth 2000.00, ((chuckles)) I can find a bully type dog in any pound/adoption facility close by, from a new wave of IRRESPONCIBLE dog owners, very few game bred dogs in the pounds lately.. Franchise... :roll: thats the truth everyone thinks they are gonna be a breeder and makes "tons of dough". GL w/ that 
Does everyone know that RE is half game? with almost every good game line in pedigree? W/ a good shot of Barneys Going Light? later they found that BlueMonday dog and the rest as they say is history... RE bred right is good stuff as the creators of the line had intended, However all the different "Bullys" is not~ IMO... What they called a bully was a "classic bully" in the ABKC. Politics who needs it? Why do we always change the breeding program of great dog men that produced great dogs? I stick w/ them old timers and the basics bulldoggin 101.


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## mygirlmaile

RileyRoo said:


> you have no idea! lol, what line are they? My boyfriend and I already got into it about how im NOT getting another puppy. mhm,but I really want a good looking, show quality dog to do events with. So really....my man has no say in the 'pup' issue. hehe, cause I will win!
> 
> Im atleast looking into paying $2000 I know that is cheap for a quality dog but we will see what I can pull together. =)
> 
> maybe in a year to two I will be able to find the perfect breeder, perfect dog.


Those two are 100% RE. And I KNOW that the people who own them DONT charge an arm and leg for their pups. I plan on getting a few SemperFi pups so I talk to Steph n Manny daily and theyre really cool people. The MAX you would pay for one of their pups is $2000, and these dogs are titled as well as health tested. I love Opha. Shes my favorite dog and THE perfect Bully in my eyes. And then theres Ooh Rah...how can you say 'no' to that face? Hahaha.


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## mygirlmaile

Firehazard said:


> I know right?! I know the dog men have priceless game dogs, but I didn't know a muscle bound show dog was worth 2000.00, ((chuckles)) I can find a bully type dog in any pound/adoption facility close by, from a new wave of IRRESPONCIBLE dog owners, very few game bred dogs in the pounds lately.. Franchise... :roll: thats the truth everyone thinks they are gonna be a breeder and makes "tons of dough". GL w/ that
> Does everyone know that RE is half game? with almost every good game line in pedigree? W/ a good shot of Barneys Going Light? later they found that BlueMonday dog and the rest as they say is history... RE bred right is good stuff as the creators of the line had intended, However all the different "Bullys" is not~ IMO... What they called a bully was a "classic bully" in the ABKC. Politics who needs it? Why do we always change the breeding program of great dog men that produced great dogs? I stick w/ them old timers and the basics bulldoggin 101.


WORTH $2000? Many of the Bullies Ive seen arent even close to WORTH $2000. I stand up for the breed, not the pricing. LOL. And I completely agree with your post. I think its ashame to see irresponsible people taking advantage of people who dont know any better just to make a quick buck. Owning/breeding dogs should not be a 'get rich quick' thing. AND, FYI, a few weeks ago, Dave Wilson (REs creator) was on the Back To The Bullies show over at ABW, and he even stated, HES not rollin in the dough. He doesnt do this for the money...he did it for his love of the breed. He still maintains a 9-5 and on occasion scrapes by. Its people who LOVE their breed that will do good by it. Im not a breeder, nor do I want to be anytime in the near future, however, I think someday, after Ive soaked up all the knowledge I can, Id like to go forward and breed QUALITY dogs for decent prices. Im not gouging people out of thousands of dollars, but what the dog is WORTH. Its hard in the Bully world because I DO see a lot of people who just want a 'bada$$ dog' and dont care about the ped, or its conformation...its all about whos dog is bigger, or has a bigger head or chest or weighs the most for SOME. THOSE people are the people who are making the AmBully look like a fool. But, one person at a time...if we can change ONE persons mind, maybe they can change one persons mind, and so forth...


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## Elvisfink

Many of the Razors Edge dogs are a mixed breed dog and Dave Wilson himself has admitted it. This is not a slam on Razors Edge, Bullies or anybody's dogs I'm just responding to OP question.

Link To Page

Come see our gentle 'bullies,' unfairly savaged by a currish editorial 
October 6, 2006 12:50 am
AS PRESIDENT of Razors Edge and one of the founders of the American Bully, I am appalled by your Oct. 3 editorial "Bully for the bulls?" Your statements are not only offensive but inaccurate.

The "Back 2 the Bullies" convention to be held tomorrow at the Fredericksburg Expo Center is not for the "celebration of the pit bull" as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull."

*We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.*

Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now.

The American Bully Kennel Club was created for the registry and promotion of this breed. These dogs have extremely mellow demeanors and were bred for the purpose of companionship. If you had researched the breed or the event, you might have learned more about what you were falsely commenting on.

We have been hosting these shows for more than four years now and have a great track record with major cities all over the United States. These events have all been a success, and people continue to request them in their areas. We have people flying in from all over the United States, and even confirmed guests from Japan, Italy, and the Philippines.

These events have been amazing for bringing all types of people together from all over the world--all races and all genders. The amount of public support has been overwhelming. For this area, the event is also helping the local economy. Three major hotels in this area are sold out, not to mention all the restaurants and pet stores that stand to gain business. Major pet stores, pet-feed companies, rescues, animal shelters, attorneys, and other organizations and individuals are backing and sponsoring this event.

To talk about this event in the context of young girls murdered by a serial killer is sick. How do you think the families of those children feel seeing that incident brought back up and being used in association with a dog show?

Then to talk about a sanctioned dog show in connection with a mauling by a pack of dogs running at large? The dogs that mauled Dorothy Sullivan weren't even pure pit bulls. But whatever breed they were, the tragedy has no correlation with this show. The poor woman who was mauled deserves more respect than to be brought into a commentary about a dog show. This entire editorial was plain sick.

At our event, the local animal control office maintains a booth with a donations box set up for its shelter. Also with booths are dog-rescue organizations that inform the public about all the dogs being put to sleep in shelters. Also at show we have a task force that seeks to bring to justice illegal dog fighters. We have a lady who runs programs in the low-income areas of major cities, and who helps underprivileged children through working with dogs.

We have five nonprofit organizations manning booths. As people from all over the world come to our event, we even have the local police department working there to ensure the safety of all patrons and participants.

At our event, nothing illegal is being promoted, permitted, or advertised. We have done no wrong at all. Our event simply seeks to certain promote a breed in a positive way.

Your editorial misinformed the public about the nature of "Back 2 the Bullies" and the breed it highlights.

DAVE WILSON of Spotsylvania County is president of Razor's Edge, the main company sponsoring tomorrow's Back 2 the Bullies convention.


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## mygirlmaile

Elvisfink said:


> Many of the Razors Edge dogs are a mixed breed dog and Dave Wilson himself has admitted it. This is not a slam on Razors Edge, Bullies or anybody's dogs I'm just responding to OP question.
> 
> Link To Page
> 
> Come see our gentle 'bullies,' unfairly savaged by a currish editorial
> October 6, 2006 12:50 am
> AS PRESIDENT of Razors Edge and one of the founders of the American Bully, I am appalled by your Oct. 3 editorial "Bully for the bulls?" Your statements are not only offensive but inaccurate.
> 
> The "Back 2 the Bullies" convention to be held tomorrow at the Fredericksburg Expo Center is not for the "celebration of the pit bull" as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull."
> 
> *We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.*
> 
> Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now.
> 
> The American Bully Kennel Club was created for the registry and promotion of this breed. These dogs have extremely mellow demeanors and were bred for the purpose of companionship. If you had researched the breed or the event, you might have learned more about what you were falsely commenting on.
> 
> We have been hosting these shows for more than four years now and have a great track record with major cities all over the United States. These events have all been a success, and people continue to request them in their areas. We have people flying in from all over the United States, and even confirmed guests from Japan, Italy, and the Philippines.
> 
> These events have been amazing for bringing all types of people together from all over the world--all races and all genders. The amount of public support has been overwhelming. For this area, the event is also helping the local economy. Three major hotels in this area are sold out, not to mention all the restaurants and pet stores that stand to gain business. Major pet stores, pet-feed companies, rescues, animal shelters, attorneys, and other organizations and individuals are backing and sponsoring this event.
> 
> To talk about this event in the context of young girls murdered by a serial killer is sick. How do you think the families of those children feel seeing that incident brought back up and being used in association with a dog show?
> 
> Then to talk about a sanctioned dog show in connection with a mauling by a pack of dogs running at large? The dogs that mauled Dorothy Sullivan weren't even pure pit bulls. But whatever breed they were, the tragedy has no correlation with this show. The poor woman who was mauled deserves more respect than to be brought into a commentary about a dog show. This entire editorial was plain sick.
> 
> At our event, the local animal control office maintains a booth with a donations box set up for its shelter. Also with booths are dog-rescue organizations that inform the public about all the dogs being put to sleep in shelters. Also at show we have a task force that seeks to bring to justice illegal dog fighters. We have a lady who runs programs in the low-income areas of major cities, and who helps underprivileged children through working with dogs.
> 
> We have five nonprofit organizations manning booths. As people from all over the world come to our event, we even have the local police department working there to ensure the safety of all patrons and participants.
> 
> At our event, nothing illegal is being promoted, permitted, or advertised. We have done no wrong at all. Our event simply seeks to certain promote a breed in a positive way.
> 
> Your editorial misinformed the public about the nature of "Back 2 the Bullies" and the breed it highlights.
> 
> DAVE WILSON of Spotsylvania County is president of Razor's Edge, the main company sponsoring tomorrow's Back 2 the Bullies convention.


This was a misprinted article and it was retracted. BTK has more information on that. Dave Wilson has admitted to ONLY crossing AmStaffs and APBTs.


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## Firehazard

mygirlmaile said:


> WORTH $2000? Many of the Bullies Ive seen arent even close to WORTH $2000. I stand up for the breed, not the pricing. LOL. And I completely agree with your post. I think its ashame to see irresponsible people taking advantage of people who dont know any better just to make a quick buck. Owning/breeding dogs should not be a 'get rich quick' thing. AND, FYI, a few weeks ago, Dave Wilson (REs creator) was on the Back To The Bullies show over at ABW, and he even stated, HES not rollin in the dough. He doesnt do this for the money...he did it for his love of the breed. He still maintains a 9-5 and on occasion scrapes by. Its people who LOVE their breed that will do good by it. Im not a breeder, nor do I want to be anytime in the near future, however, I think someday, after Ive soaked up all the knowledge I can, Id like to go forward and breed QUALITY dogs for decent prices. Im not gouging people out of thousands of dollars, but what the dog is WORTH. Its hard in the Bully world because I DO see a lot of people who just want a 'bada$$ dog' and dont care about the ped, or its conformation...its all about whos dog is bigger, or has a bigger head or chest or weighs the most for SOME. THOSE people are the people who are making the AmBully look like a fool. But, one person at a time...if we can change ONE persons mind, maybe they can change one persons mind, and so forth...


Very true.. I hope you don't think I was attaching that get rich quick attitude to DW as I know he is a breeder of merit. I ment that Dave Wilsons idea of Bully, RE, is nothing like the STIGMA nor like the pockets or XL's .. RE was perfect in every way in many AKC/UKC/ADBA dogmens opinons or we wouldn't se RE pictured or dogs of similar conformation such as Colbys Bud, and St Benedicts Cher Cher La Femme pictured in Strattons "_The Truth About the American Pit Bull Terrier"_.. I give merit to the Bully line if talking about these great workers. Remember in 2001 St Benedicts was some of the stuff to talk about in the game dog circles. There are many game dogs w/ this RE Classic Bully type of conformation... Its what the masses have done w/ the greyline, RE/Gotty line etc.. that is shamefull to you people who have great working dogs who coined the name Bully.. I have a thick lil Halls game dog of CH Brujo, Garners Spike, Sorrells CH Raisin & Ch Bluemonday, other half Zebo .. that gets called a bully all the time, I tell them he is not, show em' the ped.. FOR ME~ my nickname was coined by the old timers and gamebred APBTs are simply "bulldogs"....


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## cEElint

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> And? The point of this thread is? A beated to smitherines subject. My Razors Edge dogs are getting tired of the same old crap. Look at my avatar... Looks pretty Am Staff APBT to me.


werd .. mine is RE/Gaff... doesnt look like any bulldog in him either
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q114/f0urstar/P6025592-1.jpg


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## thaim

ya.. i dont know... but when i see these dogs.. i always see english bulldog LOL


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## mygirlmaile

Firehazard said:


> Very true.. I hope you don't think I was attaching that get rich quick attitude to DW as I know he is a breeder of merit. I ment that Dave Wilsons idea of Bully, RE, is nothing like the STIGMA nor like the pockets or XL's .. RE was perfect in every way in many AKC/UKC/ADBA dogmens opinons or we wouldn't se RE pictured or dogs of similar conformation such as Colbys Bud, and St Benedicts Cher Cher La Femme pictured in Strattons "_The Truth About the American Pit Bull Terrier"_.. I give merit to the Bully line if talking about these great workers. Remember in 2001 St Benedicts was some of the stuff to talk about in the game dog circles. There are many game dogs w/ this RE Classic Bully type of conformation... Its what the masses have done w/ the greyline, RE/Gotty line etc.. that is shamefull to you people who have great working dogs who coined the name Bully.. I have a thick lil Halls game dog of CH Brujo, Garners Spike, Sorrells CH Raisin & Ch Bluemonday, other half Zebo .. that gets called a bully all the time, I tell them he is not, show em' the ped.. FOR ME~ my nickname was coined by the old timers and gamebred APBTs are simply "bulldogs"....


No, I didnt think you were attacked Dave at all, I was just throwing that out there that the creator didnt do it to 'get rich quick'.


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## Adjecyca

Impressive Bullies
from lionsgatekennel


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## PatienceFlame

=O =O =O


OM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love those bullies too!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Adjecyca

RileyRoo said:


> =O =O =O
> 
> OM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love those bullies too!!!!!!!!!!!


I do too.
I like bullies like that with that body condition.

I saw it 
first thought was

"I want that"


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## PatienceFlame

mygirlmaile said:


> Those two are 100% RE. And I KNOW that the people who own them DONT charge an arm and leg for their pups. I plan on getting a few SemperFi pups so I talk to Steph n Manny daily and theyre really cool people. The MAX you would pay for one of their pups is $2000, and these dogs are titled as well as health tested. I love Opha. Shes my favorite dog and THE perfect Bully in my eyes. And then theres Ooh Rah...how can you say 'no' to that face? Hahaha.


So if i wanted to show does that mean he'd have to stay unaltered or do they have a special showing for altered dogs? I plan on getting my dog snipped even if i pay alot for him. And yes, I agree. in my eyes the classic and standard bullies are what I think a bullie should look like not look like a stuffed pig. xD


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## Indigo Bully Connection

RileyRoo said:


> So if i wanted to show does that mean he'd have to stay unaltered or do they have a special showing for altered dogs? I plan on getting my dog snipped even if i pay alot for him. And yes, I agree. in my eyes the classic and standard bullies are what I think a bullie should look like not look like a stuffed pig. xD


haha I meant to quote you a moment ago, but i accidently edited your post.

This is what I said:

There is a limited priveledge option within the UKC and I heard through the grape vine that the ABKC has or is in the process of starting a similar venue. If you wish to compete with the "big dogs" lol you must keep your dog unaltered.


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## los44

the best bully out there period!


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## PatienceFlame

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> haha I meant to quote you a moment ago, but i accidently edited your post.
> 
> This is what I said:
> 
> There is a limited priveledge option within the UKC and I heard through the grape vine that the ABKC has or is in the process of starting a similar venue. If you wish to compete with the "big dogs" lol you must keep your dog unaltered.


really? even if you didn't wish to breed just show?
I know the AKC has a altered dog show and unaltered show
but didn't know that the ukc and other registries require you to keep them unaltered. See, vegas passed a law stating if you arent breeding, or have a kennel all dogs have to be altered or I will get a big fat fine! I want to show but not breed. but I guess I can get a breeding lisence to keep him unaltered and show him.


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## PatienceFlame

Adjecyca said:


> I do too.
> I like bullies like that with that body condition.
> 
> I saw it
> first thought was
> 
> "I want that"


SAME HERE!! now i am going to get one!

I love meh some of dat standard bullies!


dang pitty dogs and pitty type breeds!!!!!!!

its that dang face of theirs!!!!!!!!

>.<


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## Indigo Bully Connection

RileyRoo said:


> really? even if you didn't wish to breed just show?
> I know the AKC has a altered dog show and unaltered show
> but didn't know that the ukc and other registries require you to keep them unaltered. See, vegas passed a law stating if you arent breeding, or have a kennel all dogs have to be altered or I will get a big fat fine! I want to show but not breed. but I guess I can get a breeding lisence to keep him unaltered and show him.


yes, in order to compete within any reputable registry you must have them unaltered... unless participating with LP. It's a bummer isn't it?


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## PatienceFlame

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> yes, in order to compete within any reputable registry you must have them unaltered... unless participating with LP. It's a bummer isn't it?


big bummer, not all of us want to stud or mate our dogs. that is why they have kennels right? what is LP?


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

Limited Priveledge with the UKC

United Kennel Club: Limited Privilege


----------



## PatienceFlame

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Limited Priveledge with the UKC
> 
> United Kennel Club: Limited Privilege


thanks for that linky!


----------



## mygirlmaile

RileyRoo said:


> really? even if you didn't wish to breed just show?
> I know the AKC has a altered dog show and unaltered show
> but didn't know that the ukc and other registries require you to keep them unaltered. See, vegas passed a law stating if you arent breeding, or have a kennel all dogs have to be altered or I will get a big fat fine! I want to show but not breed. but I guess I can get a breeding lisence to keep him unaltered and show him.


You can alter your dog and show it in the ABKC in what is called the 'Retired' class. You cannot CH your dog in the Retired class, however. If you plan to show conformation in the ABKC and have a nice dog that will do well and you are responsible, keeping the dog unaltered is the way youd want to go.


----------



## meganc66

mmmm i like those dogs from liongate kennels or whatever. hot crap


----------



## Sampsons Dad

los44 said:


> the best bully out there period!


Nice Bully...does he pass that (good angulation) along to his pups?
He could use a little bit more angulation in the front but he is very nice.


----------



## mygirlmaile

Sampsons Dad said:


> Nice Bully...does he pass that (good angulation) along to his pups?
> He could use a little bit more angulation in the front but he is very nice.


Thats King Kamali...he is

Ooh Rahs sire.









and Opha's sire (my two favorites, lol).


----------



## Sampsons Dad

mygirlmaile said:


> Thats King Kamali...he is
> 
> Ooh Rahs sire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and Opha's sire (my two favorites, lol).


Ooh Rah seems to have better angles in the front but its hard to tell from that pic.


----------



## mygirlmaile

Sampsons Dad said:


> Ooh Rah seems to have better angles in the front but its hard to tell from that pic.


Heres another pic I found of him when he was younger. Ooh Rah is also still young...hes not yet a year old.


----------



## Sampsons Dad

looks like a little twin...lol


----------



## mygirlmaile

LOL. I LOVE Ooh Rah. His owner is a member over at ABW and shell occasionally have her husband stack him for us on webcam. I drool. Hes a great looking dog. 

As is Kamali...that dog is definitely good for the Bully world.


----------



## mygirlmaile

I found this one of him too.

(I MAY be an Ooh Rah Stalker...so what?! LOL.)


----------



## reddoggy

Man, I really like where RE has gone. At least where the hard core RE has gone anyway. I'm in awe every time I see a pocket with that big ol slope and a bobble head. My crew runs with Gotti, but I think it's time to get some Razors Edge in there


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

I love Kamali. Since the moment I layed eyes on him... I looked at his pedigree and was extremely disapointed... I would only be able to use Indigo if I bred, but it would basically be the same genetically as repeating the Tua x Indigo. Don't get me wrong, I love what I produced, but it's time to move a little forward and open up the gene pool some. IF I ever do have another litter. Indigo is NOT mommy material lmfao.


----------



## reddoggy

AGhahahaha!!!! I didn't even read the beginning of this tread till now. HAHAHA!!! Was there really a question of paper hanging? DUH!!!
Anyway, Adjecyca, you should really KNOW what dogs you're putting up pix of. One of the "APBTs" you posted is from really questionable blood.


----------



## reddoggy

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> I love Kamali. Since the moment I layed eyes on him...


Meeeeeee toooooooooooo. I dream about that dog


----------



## los44

Sampsons Dad said:


> Nice Bully...does he pass that (good angulation) along to his pups?
> He could use a little bit more angulation in the front but he is very nice.


I'm typing from my phone, when I get home ill post a couple pics of his progeny.


----------



## Adjecyca

reddoggy said:


> AGhahahaha!!!! I didn't even read the beginning of this tread till now. HAHAHA!!! Was there really a question of paper hanging? DUH!!!
> Anyway, Adjecyca, you should really KNOW what dogs you're putting up pix of. One of the "APBTs" you posted is from really questionable blood.


Which one?

Cause one of the dogs is an am staff not an apbt.


----------



## reddoggy

Akillia. __________________TNT. 
BTW, I know the difference between an AmStaff and an APBT dude.


----------



## raiderNCpit

damn looks like ya stretched those in photo shop lol


----------



## raiderNCpit

I really like the 4th pic down


----------



## Adjecyca

reddoggy said:


> Akillia. __________________TNT.
> BTW, I know the difference between an AmStaff and an APBT dude.


Excuse me than.

Could you awnser my question though
which picture were you talking about?

How do you tell the difference between the two just by looking at it though?

I can't


----------



## reddoggy

The top black APBT, is owned by Amanda Burchfield and originally came from PDP, think the parents were Africa and Rolex, might be mistaken though. Anyway, that's TNT line. A TON of people have pulled out of breeding TNT because there are some conflicts in pedigree. I'm not insulting anyone who has TNT dogs at all, they are awesome pullers and the heart that they've got certainly matches that of any box dog. I'm just saying, when questioning lineage and comparing to another, you should probably know what you're posting up. 
The conformation between the APBTs and the AmStaff that you posted are night and day. Yes, there are amstaffs that you couldn't tell the difference because they weren't very well bred BUT a well bred one should have that prominent angular slope from the neck, stockier build, and a shortened muzzle. On top of that, the markings and color of the AmStaff you posted are VERY common of the breed.


----------



## los44

a few of king kamali's offspring

sway littermate to ooh rah
































http://thebullmaster.com/WEBSITE PICS/produced/IMG_1087.jpg
the extreme freak Bullmaster
















lil kami littermate to opha








sequoia or something like that lol








baby bop








fendi








rea
















he she


----------



## Absolute Peril

Honestly, I don't like RE at all. Most are mixed with American Bulldog, Various types of Mastiff and Bulldog to get their size. In my opinion they shouldn't ever be called American Pit bull terriers. JMHO.


----------



## Black Label Romo

Absolute Peril said:


> Honestly, I don't like RE at all. Most are mixed with American Bulldog, Various types of Mastiff and Bulldog to get their size. In my opinion they shouldn't ever be called American Pit bull terriers. JMHO.


Any proof to these claims you make? Or are you just spouting off some cool stuff you heard on the internet...lol


----------



## los44

RPBK806 said:


> Any proof to these claims you make? Or are you just spouting off some cool stuff you heard on the internet...lol


:goodpost::clap::clap:


----------



## Absolute Peril

RPBK806 said:


> Any proof to these claims you make? Or are you just spouting off some cool stuff you heard on the internet...lol


I have just gone from people I have spoken with online and in real life. I was reading an interview and the "maker" of the RE bloodline admitted to mixing his dogs with other dogs for size down the line. I am not out to get anyone with an RE dog they are just not for me, I like the game bred bloodlines the best.


----------



## American_Pit13

It varies from dog and breeder. A *LARGE* majority of RE dogs are obvious crosses.

How ever original RE dogs where APBT/Amstaff crosses that where not bred by Dave himself just slapped with the RE name. Quite a few where CH and GRCH UKC dogs.

Mixing in lines like RE and others did not begin till a few years after these lines began looking for a more drastic effect.

The dogs in my Signature carry RE lines


----------



## pouncer88

*razors edge*

they had to have added some type of bulldog back into the bloodline to create that dog.


----------



## pouncer88

they added bulldog sorry


----------



## gamer

Firehazard said:


> I know right?! * I know the dog men have priceless game dogs,* but I didn't know a muscle bound show dog was worth 2000.00, ((chuckles)) I can find a bully type dog in any pound/adoption facility close by, from a new wave of IRRESPONCIBLE dog owners, very few game bred dogs in the pounds lately.. Franchise... :roll: thats the truth everyone thinks they are gonna be a breeder and makes "tons of dough". GL w/ that
> *Does everyone know that RE is half game?* with almost every good game line in pedigree? W/ a good shot of Barneys Going Light? later they found that BlueMonday dog and the rest as they say is history... RE bred right is good stuff as the creators of the line had intended, However all the different "Bullys" is not~ IMO... What they called a bully was a "classic bully" in the ABKC. Politics who needs it? Why do we always change the breeding program of great dog men that produced great dogs? I stick w/ them old timers and the basics bulldoggin 101.


Oh lord I have never seen a game line dog from a dogman for more than $800. RE are not half game. He had game dogs when he started but they are so far removed.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

Look, it's this simple... If ya don't like it, don't buy it!
You don't have to go around reminding everyone that you don't like it, nobody cares and nobody wants to hear it. This is GoPitBull, not GoAPBT


----------



## gamer

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Look, it's this simple... If ya don't like it, don't buy it!
> You don't have to go around reminding everyone that you don't like it, nobody cares and nobody wants to hear it. *This is GoPitBull, not GoAPBT*


:hammer: you gonna follow me around now? Its not goBully either cant we just discuss something without getting bent about it?


----------



## dixieland

gamer said:


> :hammer: you gonna follow me around now? Its not goBully either cant we just discuss something without getting bent about it?


I agree.I think different opinions should be allowed to be shared without people getting their feelings hurt.


----------



## vdubbinya

putting down other breeds is just wrong. opinions are one thing, total disrespect toward other members dogs/bloodlines is just wrong period. most of your opinons on the breed cant/havnt been proven either way.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

gamer said:


> :hammer: you gonna follow me around now? Its not goBully either cant we just discuss something without getting bent about it?


Are you jumping on me buddy? I've had plenty of complaints about you recently. Not just from the bully crowd. You're rude. Get off your horse, and be respectful. Wasn't it you... just yesterday... said that you don't go around to bully threads and stir the pot? Yeah, I thought so. Get your stuff together or get out.


----------



## gamer

vdubbinya said:


> putting down other breeds is just wrong. opinions are one thing, total disrespect toward other members dogs/bloodlines is just wrong period. most of your opinons on the breed cant/havnt been proven either way.


huh? You guys are making a mountain outta an ant hole. When I have I disrespected anyone? my opinions have foundation in them.

They are bred to have exaggerated traits
They do look sloppy compared to the UKC show dogs that they are descendants from.

ugh it doesnt matter. lol should have seen me show up to a UKC show with my little 32 pound female. I had to have thick skin for that one but it didnt bother me because I knew I loved my dog and I knew what they said would not change that. Needless to say we lost  She did take second at a AADR show though woulda won first if I had conditioned her more.

You love your dogs that is what really matters I am just giving an opinion on them just as you could say that game bred dogs are skinny little rats lol wouldnt bother me i still love them the same


----------



## vdubbinya

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Are you jumping on me buddy? I've had plenty of complaints about you recently. Not just from the bully crowd. You're rude. Get off your horse, and be respectful. Wasn't it you... just yesterday... said that you don't go around to bully threads and stir the pot? Yeah, I thought so. Get your stuff together or get out.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


----------



## gamer

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Are you jumping on me buddy? I've had plenty of complaints about you recently. Not just from the bully crowd. You're rude. Get off your horse, and be respectful. Wasn't it you... just yesterday... said that you don't go around to bully threads and stir the pot? Yeah, I thought so. Get your stuff together or get out.


Sorry I dont find myself rude and if giving an opinion is rude then I dont know what. Sorry you are getting complaints. I will get my stuff together and makes sure all my posts give the bully breeders the warm fuzzys


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

gamer said:


> huh? You guys are making a mountain outta an ant hole. When I have I disrespected anyone? my opinions have foundation in them.
> 
> They are bred to have exaggerated traits
> They do look sloppy compared to the UKC show dogs that they are descendants from.
> 
> ugh it doesnt matter. lol should have seen me show up to a UKC show with my little 32 pound female. I had to have thick skin for that one but it didnt bother me because I knew I loved my dog and I knew what they said would not change that. Needless to say we lost  She did take second at a AADR show though woulda won first if I had conditioned her more.
> 
> You love your dogs that is what really matters I am just giving an opinion on them just as you could say that game bred dogs are skinny little rats lol wouldnt bother me i still love them the same


No, I wouldn't call them "skinny little rats" just like no other member on here will... You know why? For the simple fact that this website was created for all bully breeds and it is well known that none of that stuff is tollerated here. You stated your oppinion on the dogs, so move on.

Oh yeah, by the way, those "Skinny little rats" are what I started with, and I still love them. You're right, it's all about personal opinions.

Don't get paranoid, I'm not following you around. I read all of the threads, I just do more of my job here as a moderator than a bullcrapping in the threads.


----------



## Indigo Bully Connection

gamer said:


> Sorry I dont find myself rude and if giving an opinion is rude then I dont know what. Sorry you are getting complaints. I will get my stuff together and makes sure all my posts give the bully breeders the warm fuzzys


That is not what I'm asking for... warm and fuzzies haha. What I want is for you to be respectful that is all. Just like I expect all of you BULLY OWNERS to give this person the same respect.


----------



## vdubbinya

i've never said one bad thing about a true apbt. A jocko APBT is what made me love the breeds as a whole to start with. BOOYA dont think u know everything, because u dont. i love both breeds, most bully enthusiest do. its the die hard apbt ppl that make such a ruckus. cuz we're all thugs and blah blah we gave the apbt a bad name blah blah its the same ol ish just like the race wars.


----------



## gamer

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> That is not what I'm asking for... warm and fuzzies haha. What I want is for you to be respectful that is all. Just like I expect all of you BULLY OWNERS to give this person the same respect.


no warm and fuzzys good I hate em  J/K ok on with my day! :flush:


----------



## gamer

vdubbinya said:


> i've never said one bad thing about a true apbt. A jocko APBT is what made me love the breeds as a whole to start with. BOOYA dont think u know everything, because u dont. i love both breeds, most bully enthusiest do.* its the die hard apbt ppl that make such a ruckus. cuz we're all thugs and blah blah we gave the apbt a bad name blah blah its the same ol ish just like the race wars*.


Oh no I never said anything like that. I never slammed a person here or called them a thug.


----------



## dixie

yall are funny
edge atsrted out apbt and staff.alot of em still are.although i am sure alot of the exreme edge and other bullies have something else in them,but pple been doing that for years with everything.if you want a dog thats a nice bully stay away from the extreme kennels.ocver done is over done no matter how they came about that way
and actually we have some really big pitbulls here that are staff and apbt.


----------



## reddoggy

Nice post man, bout time you got some rep


----------



## wheezie

to much crying going on!!!!


----------



## los44

theres no crying just people tired of the bs, i just wished people took the time to learn about the bully before they go flapping their jibs....it would make for great debates....but they dont so you get people that read a thread and think they know everything bully related but in reality they know NOTHING! 

BTW US BULLY PEOPLE DONT POLITELY INSULT THE APBT AND DO YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE WE HAVENT FORGOTTEN WHERE WE CAME FROM! 

just my 2.......


----------



## reddoggy

I think folks need to be updated on the bully. Bully breeders are breeding cleaner, health testing, dropping prices, and not over breeding these days. Awareness has gone up and BYB has gone down. Of course there are floks with crap practices just like any other breed, but things are moving forward. My suggestion is that this thread gets closed on a high note.


----------



## los44

reddoggy said:


> I think folks need to be updated on the bully. Bully breeders are breeding cleaner, health testing, dropping prices, and not over breeding these days. Awareness has gone up and BYB has gone down. Of course there are floks with crap practices just like any other breed, but things are moving forward. My suggestion is that this thread gets closed on a high note.


sounds like a plan


----------



## GatorMan

Hello, I am new to the forum and I think its great. But on this subject I have my own opinions and it does not favor the bullies. BUT, if you want to call your dog or breeding program APBT's, then they atleast should be able to work as such. If they are work proven, hog catching, weight pull accomplished or Iron dog or SCHUZHUND titled then atleast the arguement for bullies can be made, or old school for that matter. But when all you see are non titled dogs in a pedigree and a hefty puppy price along with it, then I would say, prove that they can work, or atleast prove that the pup came from proven parents increasing my pups odds of being a great representative of the breeding program.


----------



## gamer

GatorMan said:


> Hello, I am new to the forum and I think its great. But on this subject I have my own opinions and it does not favor the bullies. BUT, if you want to call your dog or breeding program APBT's, then they atleast should be able to work as such. If they are work proven, hog catching, weight pull accomplished or Iron dog or SCHUZHUND titled then atleast the arguement for bullies can be made, or old school for that matter. But when all you see are non titled dogs in a pedigree and a hefty puppy price along with it, then I would say, prove that they can work, or atleast prove that the pup came from proven parents increasing my pups odds of being a great representative of the breeding program.


Good point but I dont think most care. They are more worried about having the biggest pits around which is odd since the breed as a whole has for the most part not been large dogs. There were some pig ones like plumbers alligator but for the most part they were smaller dogs.


----------



## vdubbinya

"they are more worried about having the biggest pits around" 
that's not why 95% of the bully owners here have bullies, sigh. 
it will never change, morons will be here until the end of time, drink up my friends. Sad thing is, i think its contagious, so dont drink too much.


----------



## dixieland

vdubbinya said:


> "they are more worried about having the biggest pits around"
> that's not why 95% of the bully owners here have bullies,


I don't think he was talking about the bully owners here.I think he was talking about alot of bully owners in general.The bully owners that are here show their bullies in a good light.And yeah there are a good deal on other sites that do too.But go onto these other sites and at least 70% of them are talking about the size of the dog.


----------



## vdubbinya

i understand that, and i hear the arguement. its just beaten to death. the ones that are trying to push the breed in a positive way, get sick of hearing the negitive. And apbt people of ALL the people, should at least understand the scrunity that we are already under to begin with.


----------



## dixieland

I do agree with that.I haven't even been here that long and already am tired of all the bully posts.But just educate.I didn't know the difference between the two when I first came here.But I read and read.
I think the whole subject would be a little less tiring to read over and over if the people asking the questions went about it a different way.Read and do research first before asking questions.If something has already been covered then why bring it up again for the tenth time?And ask in a respectful manner.

I'm not saying anybody in this thread did or didn't do any of that.I'm just making some observations and stating my opinion.

And I love me a bully!:woof:


----------



## vdubbinya

at least someone has manners 
and also, i see ur from nc, im from sc, so we must be drinking the same water.... ok ok ok i'll stop.


----------



## dixieland

well thank you!That's what being southern is all about.


----------



## vdubbinya

hospitality at its finest.
tried to give u couple of reps, but i must spread the love.


----------



## dixieland

It's cool.I got one from ya!:thumbsup:


----------



## Sampsons Dad

Yeah>>>blah blah blah...lol
Someone post a link to old Razors edge pics....lol
The older pics of RE show dogs are what I see as the Ideal RE dog.


----------



## vdubbinya

older pix? what about the current generation? not as good ?


----------



## los44

the american bully is still a young breed, give it some time. people are starting to title their dogs, remember the abkc is a young regisrty and its not like the bully is gonna get titles in the ukc ring. at the end of the day it is what it is, people are gonna believe what it is they wanna believe.


----------



## gamer

dixieland said:


> I don't think he was talking about the bully owners here.I think he was talking about alot of bully owners in general.The bully owners that are here show their bullies in a good light.And yeah there are a good deal on other sites that do too.But go onto these other sites and at least 70% of them are talking about the size of the dog.


Exactly I am not saying anything about what is here.



Sampsons Dad said:


> Yeah>>>blah blah blah...lol
> Someone post a link to old Razors edge pics....lol
> The older pics of RE show dogs are what I see as the Ideal RE dog.


Yeah the old RE stuff was nice, clean dogs. I remember the first one I saw was knuckles I think his name was and a lot of people were using ii.


----------



## Sampsons Dad

vdubbinya said:


> older pix? what about the current generation? not as good ?


Nice dog...but from what I remember the older RE dogs were more AmStaff (chunky square dogs) looking.


----------



## gamer

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [2284] :: RAZORS EDGE THROWIN KNUCKLES (UKC)


----------



## vdubbinya

pike has knuckles in his ped ~7-9 times in a 6 gen. with the closest in the 4th gen i believe.


----------



## Sampsons Dad

I love these dogs...they aren't RE dogs but it is what I think a RE was "designed" to look like.

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [4831] :: KING BEAR OF LOU-LIN

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=38715


----------



## vdubbinya

lou lin is beautiful.


----------



## GatorMan

I rather like that they are now being referd to as a Bully,rather than APBT or AmStaff. And I would love to see the Bully become a real working dog.


----------



## piteazy

mygirlmaile said:


> Fair enough. And that is my opinion.
> 
> Old school RE dogs look different than the dogs you see today. And think logically about it. You have an APBT x Staffy, breed em. You get thicker dogs. Then you breed a thicker dog to a thicker dog, there by getting a THICKER dog, and so forth...thus establishing the RE dogs you see today.
> 
> RE dogs didnt start out looking like some do now. They were more AmStaffy in appearance...more of what would be considered a Classic Bully now...meaning they fit the UKC Standard for an APBT to an extent.
> 
> I apologize for jumping down your throat...Im quite defensive about Bullies. This is just a topic that has been beaten to death and usually ends badly.


True i understand how they can breed dogs for larger traits. also though in my opinion breeding for massiveness is like breeding for color.. and imo people that breed for that are taking away from and or trying to change the original breed....and just so u people dont get offended i wasnt trying to offend all u bully dog ppl


----------



## vdubbinya

what offends us is u act like we're not on the same boat. IF bsl comes knocking on my door, rest assured hes knocking on yours next, or vice versa. i could give a ish less if u like bullies or not, its personal preference, just like your style in cars, i drive a vw gti, hell u might hate hatchbacks, but i aint gunna sell my car to appease u 
and we're not trying to take away or gain anything from a apbt, its a different breed, it wasnt bred to be an apbt, never will be an apbt.


----------



## gamer

vdubbinya said:


> what offends us is u act like we're not on the same boat. IF bsl comes knocking on my door, rest assured hes knocking on yours next, or vice versa. i could give a ish less if u like bullies or not, its personal preference, just like your style in cars, i drive a vw gti, hell u might hate hatchbacks, but i aint gunna sell my car to appease u
> and we're not trying to take away or gain anything from a apbt,* its a different breed, it wasnt bred to be an apbt, never will be an apbt.*


This attitude I like but why are they still being registered as APBT? I see nothing wrong with your line of thinking here.


----------



## buzhunter

What offends me is that you and your dogs jumped in my boat with BSL chasing you and now you want to blend in and buddy up and talk all this "we" sh!t. There ain't no "we" there's you and then there's us. REsearch the root of the problem.


----------



## gamer

buzhunter said:


> What offends me is that you and your dogs jumped in my boat with BSL chasing you and now you want to blend in and buddy up and talk all this "we" sh!t. There ain't no "we" there's you and then there's us. REsearch the root of the problem.


huh? you talking to me?


----------



## buzhunter

Not at all. I was talking to this guy...



vdubbinya said:


> what offends us is u act like we're not on the same boat. IF bsl comes knocking on my door, rest assured hes knocking on yours next, or vice versa. i could give a ish less if u like bullies or not, its personal preference, just like your style in cars, i drive a vw gti, hell u might hate hatchbacks, but i aint gunna sell my car to appease u
> and we're not trying to take away or gain anything from a apbt, its a different breed, it wasnt bred to be an apbt, never will be an apbt.


----------



## vdubbinya

buzhunter said:


> What offends me is that you and your dogs jumped in my boat with BSL chasing you and now you want to blend in and buddy up and talk all this "we" sh!t. There ain't no "we" there's you and then there's us. REsearch the root of the problem.


1st off, i never asked to be your buddy, and with your piss poor attitude i wouldnt want to be in the first place. 
2nd off, bsl aint chasing me, my county is pitbull happy 
3rd off, get off your apbt high horse thinking your dog is the sh!t just because its the specific breed of choice for YOU, NOT EVERY F**ING AMERICAN, *YOU*.
and 4th and last, apbt was in the heat before ambullys were ever around, its been a lingering stigma for years....why are all the old timers fearful of "pit bulls". exactly, their fearful of bullies BECAUSE their a bigger version of the apbt which SCARES morons that are narrow minded as you are. 
and to all the apbt people that actually care besides THAT guy, :hug::rofl:


----------



## gamer

vdubbinya said:


> 1st off, i never asked to be your buddy, and with your piss poor attitude i wouldnt want to be in the first place.
> 2nd off, bsl aint chasing me, my county is pitbull happy
> 3rd off, get off your apbt high horse thinking your dog is the sh!t just because its the specific breed of choice for YOU, NOT EVERY FUKING AMERICAN, *YOU*.
> and 4th and last, apbt was in the heat before ambullys were ever around, its been a lingering stigma for years....why are all the old timers fearful of "pit bulls". exactly, their fearful of bullies BECAUSE their a bigger version of the apbt which SCARES morons that are narrow minded as you are.
> and to all the apbt people that actually care besides THAT guy, :hug::rofl:


wow lol slow your roll. I dont think the BSL got hot and heavy until the Am staff and show pits really came out I could be wrong tho I will research it.


----------



## Mcleod15

vdubbinya said:


> their fearful of bullies BECAUSE their a bigger version of the apbt


The pitbull problem didn't start until the late 80's til now. When was the bullies first established? Late 80's maybe.

I think people are more fearful of bullies cause they tend to be more HA and than APBTs.

Poor breeding is what has caused the problem. To many people mixing breeds and trying to change something that doesn't need to be changed.


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## American_Pit13

Calm it down boys!


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## performanceknls

Someone already got banned for this thread.... do not be next


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## gamer

sorry i am trying to be civil


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## buzhunter

Wow. I think I'm going to stroll over here and check out this other thread...


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## Czar

why did my niece get banned?


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## gamer

Czar said:


> why did my niece get banned?


http://www.gopitbull.com/266770-post118.html I am guessing because of this post


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## los44

lmao its the bullys fault that bsl is after the apbt.....what a joke i guess it has nothing to do with the []....nah its that asts fault right...lol


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## gamer

los44 said:


> lmao its the bullys fault that bsl is after the apbt.....what a joke i guess it has nothing to do with the []....nah its that asts fault right...lol


Well I guess we wont know and no its not the bullys fault actually its not the dogs fault its the oweners/breeders.

Ok just think about this one sec. Dog matching was outlawed in 1976. BSL started in early 80's. Just seems odd to me that when people could no longer match their dogs and cull the ones that were maybe HA or that redirected. I dunno just seems odd when you look at the date. You can blame it on game dogs but they were areound for a lot longer before BSL and I dont think there were pit bulls running around attacking people compared to today.

This is why breeders need to cull dogs that even show slight bit of HA. I know there were a few dogs back then like Zebo who bit but I think breeders of today make excuses and let it slide more hence more bites.


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## buzhunter

Agreed. If you were to draw a graph comparing the pet bull population explosion with the popularity of BSL, you'd see one solid line. BSL has been around for decades but it really ramped up in the mid 80's and has hit an all time high in this decade. Anybody know what Dave Wilson was doing in the mid 80's?


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## los44

I can agree with improper breeding and what not but blaming the bully is a joke IMHO.....there are plenty byb apbt breeders. As far as what Dave wilson was doing in the mid 80s....he was breeding lions to ferrots to create the American bully silly....everybody knows that


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## StaffyDaddy

gamer said:


> Well I guess we wont know and no its not the bullys fault actually its not the dogs fault its the oweners/breeders.
> 
> Ok just think about this one sec. Dog matching was outlawed in 1976. BSL started in early 80's. Just seems odd to me that when people could no longer match their dogs and cull the ones that were maybe HA or that redirected. I dunno just seems odd when you look at the date. You can blame it on game dogs but they were areound for a lot longer before BSL and I dont think there were pit bulls running around attacking people compared to today.
> 
> This is why breeders need to cull dogs that even show slight bit of HA. I know there were a few dogs back then like Zebo who bit but I think breeders of today make excuses and let it slide more hence more bites.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


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## StaffyDaddy

los44 said:


> I can agree with improper breeding and what not but blaming the bully is a joke IMHO.....there are plenty byb apbt breeders. As far as what Dave wilson was doing in the mid 80s....he was breeding lions to ferrots to create the American bully silly....everybody knows that


I think blaming the bully as breed, maybe in the wrong. However it's the FACT that breeders were mixing in temperaments of other breeds, who is to say that they were picking from closer gene pools with good temperaments, and did not only get the increase in size, but a handful of problems with outcrossing? I wasn't there, you weren't there. It's not fair to say it couldnt have been the same breeding practices that created the breed, so to me it's a tossup. I can't blame the dogs, theyre already here, theyre cute and all...

And yeah I know there's plenty of BYB APBT breeders, heck I bought my first pup from one, but I know better. I am anti BYB because of that reason, wether it's APBT or AmBully, but the truth is that the AmBully will always face more potential health issues being a breed that's bred for aesthetics (i know im gonna catch some crapola here lol) but the closest thing we have to the true APBTs are the folks that are working the dogs (i know there's people testing them but thats another topic) and when you breed closer to a standard that is function over form you it could still be a tossup but the odds are in your favor that less genetic ailments will be passed down. JMO


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## gamer

StaffyDaddy said:


> I think blaming the bully as breed, maybe in the wrong.* However it's the FACT that breeders were mixing in temperaments of other breeds, who is to say that they were picking from closer gene pools with good temperaments, and did not only get the increase in size, but a handful of problems with outcrossing?* I wasn't there, you weren't there. It's not fair to say it couldnt have been the same breeding practices that created the breed, so to me it's a tossup. I can't blame the dogs, theyre already here, theyre cute and all...
> 
> And yeah I know there's plenty of BYB APBT breeders, heck I bought my first pup from one, but I know better. I am anti BYB because of that reason, wether it's APBT or AmBully, but the truth is that the AmBully will always face more potential health issues being a breed that's bred for aesthetics (i know im gonna catch some crapola here lol) but the closest thing we have to the true APBTs are the folks that are working the dogs (i know there's people testing them but thats another topic) and when you breed closer to a standard that is function over form you it could still be a tossup but the odds are in your favor that less genetic ailments will be passed down. JMO


Very good point. If you breed in say a french mastiff who are good man stoppers then you may come up with some man biters. There is nothing wrong with a french mastiff or other mastiff dogs to bite its what they are made for protection, some not all obviously.


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## StaffyDaddy

Yeah there's culls in every breed, I think that when said breeders were out crossing the APBT and the AST to mastiff types, unless they had spend years and years tightening up breeding from the mastiff, then you are really just rolling the dice. And even if you breed both breeds and are crossing the best qualities of both, a recessive gene could found in new breedings. 


*A- APBT/AST Mix *B- Mastiff Type

C- Offspring, bred back to *A

C bred to A= A/C, which could display unwanted recessive gene from dog A or dog C


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## reddoggy

yer talkin bandogges bruh, LOL F1b HAHAHAHAHA


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## gamer

reddoggy said:


> yer talkin bandogges bruh, LOL F1b HAHAHAHAHA


bandog pics









Bandog "Inu" (Pit Bull x Mastino)









Pitbull mastiff bandog




































*Gotti/Re/etc "pitbulls"*




























Now I dont see a huge difference here. Things that make you go hmmmmm


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## reddoggy

There really isn't that much of a difference. No contest from me on that subject. Just a simple fork in the road taken between bandogge and bully.


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## gamer

reddoggy said:


> There really isn't that much of a difference. No contest from me on that subject. Just a simple fork in the road taken between bandogge and bully.


So are you saying the evolution is pitbull to bandogge to bullies?


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## los44

This is my thing....its easy to just point the finger simply because their is a scapegoat in the bully. imho there a lot of variables when speaking on temperament/HA, while I agree that the mixing of breeds may have contributed to todays problem and yes the bully was created by mixing breeds but what about all the non bully apbt crosses does the bully carry fault in these cases? It comes off to me as a witch hunt, no matter what the bully is at fault....apbt people make it seem as if Dave Wilson invented bsl along with the bully as if the apbt was considered a lap dog before the bully. As I stated before variables, people today are more aware of the bully breeds and what they are capable of in the wrong hands. I find it ironic that the apbt community blames the bully but almost any time I see a "pitbull" on the news or in the paper it looks nothing like a bully. I live in Brooklyn ny And out here apbts/crosses outnumber bullys at least 2 to 1 and that's being moddest, it may be different where you are I don't know I can only speak from my experiences. 

Yes I am a bully lover but I was an apbt lover way before I even knew of the bully and if I thought it was the major contributor in bsl I would say so. People that read my posts know that I show love to the bully but know I will come down on the bully as well....I'm firm but fair


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## StaffyDaddy

reddoggy said:


> yer talkin bandogges bruh, LOL F1b HAHAHAHAHA


OK or AmBulldog? The point is I was talking about outcrossing. You and me both know d**n well that the bullies have taken more turns towards other breeds than the APBT and the AST


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## reddoggy

Naw naw, I was just poking fun.


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## NinaThePitbull

Adjecyca said:


> No need to be defensive,
> I wasn't saying anything bad about them
> at least i wasn't trying too. I like Bullies, i also like the athletic pittie.
> 
> of course that's possible but when i see dogs like this
> (obviously this is an extreme example)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it makes me question.


yeah looking at that pic, makes you wonder. but someone madea good point about breeding them thicker. and its a respected (highly respected) kennel at that, so i would take their word for it.


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## twitchf4i

why does it cost so much for a re dog i can get a adba reg pup ranging 400 to 600 can someone explain y these bullys cost so much because ive seen a few that i would eventually wanna get but at the prices **** no


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## reddoggy

There are plenty of RE dogs out there at a working mans rate.
If you want the next hot thing it's gonna cost though. People pay it, breeders will keep charging it. The way I see it though, remember when DVD came out? It was expensive! But now, it's been around, patents have been bought, new product is out.... Price is WAY down. At one time it cost a mortgage payment for a player and not you can buy a player and enough movies to watch every night for a week for under a hundred bucks. I have a feeling that it's gonna be the same.
On the other hand, a truly show quality dog of MANY breeds will cost an arm and a leg.... BYB, not so much.


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## Adjecyca

ohhh whatta pretty bully 









ohh and another









The dogs cute, i don't care for the man nor the backround,









Lets see those beautiful bullies....


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## vdubbinya

you wont see those kinda bully's on here, they pick the sloppiest ones to post that they can find :thumbsup:


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## los44

vdubbinya said:


> you wont see those kinda bully's on here, they pick the sloppiest ones to post that they can find :thumbsup:


:goodpost: so true!


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## reddoggy

+1 for Shane.


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## cEElint

i know the male in back is AmBully/AmBulldog..he's about 6-7 months old









their daddy.. but different litters..


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## vdubbinya

mmmmmmmmmmmm check out those boobs!


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## StaffyDaddy

gamer said:


> bandog pics


Oh yeah, I'd adopt him!! LOL


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## StaffyDaddy

Adjecyca said:


> ohhh whatta pretty bully
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see those beautiful bullies....


hahaha dude dresses like me!

Pretty dog.


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## cEElint

vdubbinya said:


> mmmmmmmmmmmm check out those boobs!


lol

http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/22846-my-cousin-just-had-pups-theyre-cutest-things.html


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## tgp4lyf

*JMO*

hi.wrong thread.mybad.noob here


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## vdubbinya

^^^ noob above!


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## Rudy4747

I truly feel that in the beginning there was no bulldogs but through time the re people have come to like the dog shorter and wider, and have breed different dogs. But a lot like ignorant people and the "man eating pitbull rage" you can't assume that all Razors edge dogs have been breed this way.


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## dixieland

I have seen plenty of re dogs that are not shorter and wider.
Vdubs dog is one,and here is another


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## dozer

Adjecyca said:


> No need to be defensive,
> I wasn't saying anything bad about them
> at least i wasn't trying too. I like Bullies, i also like the athletic pittie.
> 
> of course that's possible but when i see dogs like this
> (obviously this is an extreme example)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it makes me question.


that dog was poorly breed iam a bully fan myself not all bully dogs r like that the bully dogs come cross breeding am staff and apbt not at all mix breeds i think bullys r awsome pitbulls if breed right


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## reddoggy

How is that a poorly bred bully?
It doesn't have a cat face, so I'm pretty sure it can breathe, legs might be short but it still looks capable of working out considering all the muscle on the dog, the angulation on the neck is perfect, the head is large but not too large for the body size, not too lippy, no over abundance of wrinkles, no loose skin on the neck, and the back end is even with the shoulder. It has one foot cocked out, but the other is straight so it leads me to believe that it isn't Eastie Westie. So how is it poorly bred?


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## kilo's daddy

reddoggy said:


> How is that a poorly bred bully?
> It doesn't have a cat face, so I'm pretty sure it can breathe, legs might be short but it still looks capable of working out considering all the muscle on the dog, the angulation on the neck is perfect, the head is large but not too large for the body size, not too lippy, no over abundance of wrinkles, no loose skin on the neck, and the back end is even with the shoulder. It has one foot cocked out, but the other is straight so it leads me to believe that it isn't Eastie Westie. So how is it poorly bred?


:goodpost: x2! he looks proportional and his face has character, i like him.


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## Rudy4747

kilo's daddy said:


> :goodpost: x2! he looks proportional and his face has character, i like him.


He looks pretty lippy to me and though he has no neck wrinkles he has whole body wrinkles! Not to mention how could he even be athletic bullies  are to be athletic.


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## reddoggy

Um no. American Bullies are not supposed to be athletic, it's a show breed. It's got thick lip but he's not THAT lippy, especially after having seen the victorian in another thread. Body wrinkles? I see none. The wrinkles are limited to the top of his head, which leads me to believe that it's from pricking up his ears at attention. He's got one foot cocked out and seems to be pulling his lead to the side, so he infact looks straight footed. Again, this is not a poorly bred bully, actually a pretty good example of what a pocket and a standard should look like.


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## Rudy4747

Look i should not even be saying any thing cause I do not know. Sorry. CAn you tell me were to find the standard for the bullies?


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## reddoggy

Well, the ABKC was bought out a few months back and the website has not had anything other than the front page. The written standard is vague though, in the ring they are rarely judged according to the standard and seem to be judged against the other dogs anyway. There is a new kennel club that was started by an ABKC judge and from what I hear, the guy is really cleaning things up. I'm really looking forward to seeing this club take off. Lemme see if I can get all the info from Inf602 and we can post up the standards from there.


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## matthew

StaffyDaddy said:


> Oh yeah, I'd adopt him!! LOL


Could be very easily sold as a "pitbull" probley for a hefty price. I love my dog but bully breeds in general are becoming one big mixing pot. Before you know it english bulldogs and boston terriers will be pits. exagerated yes. but seriously come on if its bully its a pit. sad but true.


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## reddoggy

I could see how that specific bandogge could be mistaken for a pit. Pretty sure it's a pit/mastino cross. 
We're off in a tangency, anyone got anything to say bout RE???


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## ghosthellz

Adjecyca said:


> No need to be defensive,
> I wasn't saying anything bad about them
> at least i wasn't trying too. I like Bullies, i also like the athletic pittie.
> 
> of course that's possible but when i see dogs like this
> (obviously this is an extreme example)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it makes me question.


Lol what is that thing?


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## reddoggy

A pretty nice looking dog.


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## ImPeCcAbLePiT$

lol everything I have read says that to get a "bully" its amstaff and pit...that last dog is def NOT amstaff or pit. 

Dat boi look dizzy, and just as confused about his existance as everyone else is. lmao. 

I may not know a lot, but I know what my baby Zeus is, and I know that that dog don't look nothin like him. Looks easily distinguishable to me...


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## reddoggy

ImPeCcAbLePiT$ said:


> lol everything I have read says that to get a "bully" its amstaff and pit...that last dog is def NOT amstaff or pit.
> 
> Dat boi look dizzy, and just as confused about his existance as everyone else is. lmao.
> 
> I may not know a lot, but I know what my baby Zeus is, and I know that that dog don't look nothin like him. Looks easily distinguishable to me...


That's awesome. Do you happen to have anything *intelligent* to say about the dog and his structure or about Razor's Edge, since that is what the thread is about?
Expressing your opinion is a thumbs up. Just remember that respect is a two way street.


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## vdubbinya

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ----that's all i need to add, delete as needed


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## ImPeCcAbLePiT$

Hmm...ok. I wasn't trying to offend anyone. I was simply joking. If it was taken seriously then i'm sorry to see that I got to you :rain:. 

I was reffering to them being mixed with "bulldog" and how that one obviously was (and the way his eyes are, makes him look a little dizzy, not a bad thing if that is what you like...just a little funny). lol. No need to be ansy pansy about it. I can't have anything negative to say about the breed TRUELY do to the fact that I have a re bully, if you didn't notice in my pic. Thank you for YOUR opinion it is greatly appreciated. :clap: :goodpost: :woof:


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## reddoggy

Rudy4747 said:


> Look i should not even be saying any thing cause I do not know. Sorry. CAn you tell me were to find the standard for the bullies?


bbck standards

American Bully Breed Standard
General Appearance & Characteristics- The American Bully should display a strength that is equal to its size.The breed should be athletic and courageous while always being alert to its environment.The breed is known especially for its broad chest,blocky head and heavy bone.The best trait of all is the temperament of an American Bully.Naturally aggressive behavior of any kind is not accepted.The American Bully is a multipurpose breed because of its physical abilities and intelligence.
Head- The head is large but must be in proportion to the chest and the rest of the body.The head is broad but should not be more than 2/3 of the chest in width.
Ears- High set,cropped or uncropped.Uncropped ears should not be flat or full prick.
Eyes- Both eyes must be of matching color.All colors allowed except albinism.Eyes are set wide and low on the skull.
Muzzle- Short in comparison to the skull.Shape should be more squared than roundish.The Classic variety will differ with a slightly longer muzzle and rounded rather than square and blocky.
Nose- Large nostrils and all colors accepted.
Teeth- Set shall be full.Upper teeth to meet over lower teeth in a scissor bite.
Lips- Should be close but not mandatory to be tight.
Neck- Medium to short in length.Muscular & wide but in proportion while combining the head to the shoulders.
Forequarters- Shoulder blades are wide and muscular.Forelegs are muscular with heavy bone in proportion to the body.Legs are perpendicular from the feet to the shoulders.Pasterns are upright and straight.The Classic variety may have less bone mass but as long as proportions are still correct.
Hindquarters- Hindquarters are strong and thick.Bone should match that of the forequarters.Hocks are straight as well as the pasterns.
Body- The chest is wide and well filled in.The back should appear strong and firm.The topline slightly slopes downward.Level backs are accepted but the croup should have a slight slope.The Pocket variety shall have a body length that is equal to its height.The Standard and Classic varieties can have equal length/height but slightly longer backs are accepted.The XL variety is allowed added difference that accepts a body length that is greater than the height.
Feet- The size of the feet are in proportion to the dog overall.Feet should be straight and tight.
Tail- The tail tapers to a point.Overall length should be that it reaches the hock.
Coat- The coat is short and stiff.All colors and patterns are accepted.
Size- There are no weight requirements for any of the varieties.However,weight should be in proportion to height & length.
Heighth- Pocket variety,16" & under.Competition starts at the age of 1 year.XL variety,19" & up.No minimum age required for the XL variety in competition.Classic variety,17"-19"Competition starts at 6 months and the height requirememts shall be waived up until the age of 1 year as long as 19" is not exceeded..Standard variety,16"-19".Standard variety height requirements are also waved up until the age of 1 year as long as 19" is not exceeded.
Gait- The American Bully moves with a powerful and confident gait.The gait shows good reach and drive.The head should be helf high and proud while the tail should be level with the back.The Classic variety should have the most graceful gait of all varieties while the XL variety allows minor paddling and pounding.
Faults- Level bite,turned fronts,noticeably high rears,swayback,down pasterns,splayed feet,long tail,thick tail,knotted tail,turned feet.
Serious Faults- Undershot/overshot mouths,kink tail,gay tail,obesity.
Disqualifications- Eyes not of matching color,bobbed tail,unilateral or bilateral cryptorchid,albinism,aggression or extreme shyness.


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## reddoggy

ImPeCcAbLePiT$ said:


> Hmm...ok. I wasn't trying to offend anyone. I was simply joking. If it was taken seriously then i'm sorry to see that I got to you :rain:.


Yeah, I get the joke, I just don't think it's funny. Somebody put a lot of time and a lot of money into making that dog. Just because it's not to your liking doesn't mean that the dogs structure is incorrect. Not only that, you personified the dog making it sound stupid. Yeah, I'm real sure that if the dog could think on the same level, it'd be questioning it's existence. Again, do you have anything to add to the thread that actually pertains to the subject?


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## Rudy4747

reddoggy said:


> Well, the ABKC was bought out a few months back and the website has not had anything other than the front page. The written standard is vague though, in the ring they are rarely judged according to the standard and seem to be judged against the other dogs anyway. There is a new kennel club that was started by an ABKC judge and from what I hear, the guy is really cleaning things up. I'm really looking forward to seeing this club take off. Lemme see if I can get all the info from Inf602 and we can post up the standards from there.


I can't wait to see I read the page the abkc had before and it did have some standards I went to look and the page was completely different with no standard, but much more professional looking.


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## reddoggy

Rudy4747 said:


> I can't wait to see I read the page the abkc had before and it did have some standards I went to look and the page was completely different with no standard, but much more professional looking.


The standards were posted on there, they were kinda vague, much like the UKC standard is. I mean, once you know the standards they don't seem as vague but to someone who doesn't know what they are looking at it just seems like there isn't enough detail to really describe the dogs..... If that makes any sense


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## Rudy4747

I do want to note you told me they are not to be athletic, and the standard you posted says " this breed should be athletic and courageous" just saying. I wish the abkc would more strict with the standard they up hold. But wait is the standard for the pocket bully different from the am bully and is there a xxl standard as well?


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## reddoggy

This isn't the ABKC standard, it's the BBCK. The breed is supposed to be athletic in appearance. I am back peddling over my own statement, the dogs are muscled. The way things have been going with the breed lately though.....


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## Rudy4747

Not attacking I have so much to learn and thanks to all of you have have been helping. Because i have learned so much in my short time as a member here. I look forward to see what will happen with the bullies soon. DO you think the uck stopping registration has anything to do with the overwhelming difference in standard that some bullies being registered as apbt?


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## reddoggy

I'm sure someone will jump in if I am incorrect here, but the UKC is putting an end to SINGLE registrations. Meaning you can't take an ADBA or AKC dog and reg with UKC once this takes effect. This decision in not limited to the APBT, it will effect all breeds with in the UKC. For more info and thoughts check out this thread.


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## Firehazard

I have already put my 2cents on RE on page 2; as far as the bandogge and crossing bloodlines and such.. I chuckle because it has already been done. The Boston Bull Terrier was like that of Sgnt. Stubby who is in most Boston Terrier pedigrees of today as a founding stock, he is also the Georgetown mascott, and the direct line from which the earliest "bulldogs" of the south came from. I have posted those pics on AM Bulldog debate. When we follow the history of the game dog, if it could cut the mustard as game it went into the stock... I don't believe in having a dog I have to take care of and does nothing for me; dogs are tools, the companionship is a perk. I believe show dogs should be selected out of working stock; RE bloodlines included. I alienate myself because I piss on politics, its just red tape to confuse the truth. Bandogges look more line game line pits that are big boned because you get a APBT when your breeding for GAME, it comes with the mentality. IT makes no sense to have a HALF ABPT/Mastiff if its not a working dog, well if they breed the good ones they are harboring the game trait that come from the game dog. So they get back to the game dog conformation that come with that genotype for mentality. There are Whopper dogs, Giant, Mammoth, etc.. etc.. that are APBT by ped in ADBA and UKC much larger than the bandogges because they are breeding for size and looks; Does that makes sense? HOWEVER when bred RIGHT bandogges are as the BOERBOEL despite westernized politics, if you follow the breeders in Africa its clear they used imported American game dogs and mastiff to create a catch dog for lions. Boerboels come up with red noses and with a real wirey frame sometimes which are sold as "pet quality" and with out papers with a contract to spay/neuter just FYI do your own digging. However with bandogges that were still bred to be big dogs just not game driven were the size of a mastiff and the shape of an APBT and the attitude was Eat PEOPLE.. So again genotypes, phenotypes, chromosomes and all that make the dog what it is, control is an illusion we can only manipulate. wheeeeeeewwww.... .


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## reddoggy

Eh, I respect you as well as your statement. I disagree to an extent. Having working dogs in a ped is always a plus but I think form over function is what makes the show ring. For people like me, who live in the city, a working dog doesn't do much for us. Hunting is about the only type of work for a dog down here in the south west. I don't need a dog to fend off coyotes or pull fire wood. So I guess everyone has different needs and thats one of the reasons people need to research their dog before diving into a purchase.


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## Firehazard

Ya'll have a stash of coyotes in AR, as many as we did in Oklahoma; I was always huntin', urban yotes or out away for society.. You made a very valid point; I think thats why people have jacked up the bloodlines, they want a "pit" that doesn't do "sht." To me they are a working breed; for most people as you say should research, really they want a Bull Terrier or a OEB or something that has already been done.. that just my bag of wind.


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## reddoggy

Agreed. Yeah we have a GRIP of coyotes out here, just don't see em unless you are right next to a fed wildlife preserve(which is in a lot of isolated spots of PHX) or if you are along the outskirts of the city. Right here in metro, we never see em'. All we have to worry about is psycho cats with AIDS


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## Firehazard

reddoggy said:


> Agreed. Yeah we have a GRIP of coyotes out here, just don't see em unless you are right next to a fed wildlife preserve(which is in a lot of isolated spots of PHX) or if you are along the outskirts of the city. Right here in metro, we never see em'. All we have to worry about is psycho cats with AIDS


Yah, my crew, hates the city after the first week or two.. They like meeting people in parks and such, but they just have to get somthing or they start to get each other...

Cat aids; lol, burn right throught the poplutation of felines won't it.. I had my fair share of ghetto stomps; had to kick it back up the honky tonks. I had people trying to steal my dogs by trying to rush me with a gang of fools while they let there ghetto pit go.. Climbing my fence to try to get whatever they thought they could get, and well I couldn't do anything accept call the police. Who usually protected the crooks from my dog, saying I was harboring a vicious animal, bah Not anymore ) make my day.. In Idaho within 10 ft of house and imposing danger, let em' talk to the smoke waggon


----------

