# Serious Issues



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm gonna be blunt and upfront and I don't care if you take it to heart, because truth is, if you do, it's probably directed towards you.

Ive been seeing more and more threads about people wishing to breed dogs, both papered and unpapered, wether it is planned, being planned, or unplanned. And I know there is a poll to see how many of us breed on here..

I think before asking any questions about breeding, folks should see this thread.

http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/7613-bybs.html

People often say the problem with pitbulls today is how you raise them/the owner. What a crock! I mean, granted you can have an owner act irresponsibly and one incident can ruin it for the breed in that said location... And I'm not discounting that as a contributor to the breeds downfall.. But I see more problems with this fast growing network of back yard breeders and the claims they make. Most of the pups from BYBs end up in a shelter or euthanized because BYBs push them out to uninformed, irresponsibe, unsuspecting, uneducated individuals and it's basically a death wish on entire litters.

I know some of you out there have had accidental litters. And yes, youve learned your lesson I'm sure, but it still affects the breed. Think of all the people responsible enough to keep intact dogs for show and work. They are not having accidental litters... Be more responsible for your dogs. And that's all I have to say about that..

But back to the topic.. FOr you people stating that you want to breed your dogs... What makes your dogs so darn special? What are they contributing to the breed? Just because your dogs are registered does not mean you are reputable, doing it for the right cause, or that your dogs are breeding stock.

The AmBully became the hottest trend in the pitbull community with everyone wanting a bigger, badder pitbull.. And even now that seems like a distant second because today, everyone wants to breed their EFFIN DOGS!!!

The problem is not the people who have accidental litters. Those are mistakes. We learn from them. The problem is not dog fighters (i do not condone dog fighting) because they are actually doing what the old dogmen would do for the breed before fighting was outlawed..

Where do you think most of these fighting pits come from? Where do you think all those shelter pups came from? And all the thousands who have been put to sleep and marked unadoptable. Where do you think they came from? Wake TF up and realize what you're doing. You love the breed??? *IM CALLING YOUR BLUFF!!!*


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> FOr you people stating that you want to breed your dogs... What makes your dogs so darn special? ]


He is the best dog and all I want is to breed him one time. It's good for them to have at least one litter!

lol great post! :goodpost:


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

Good post!!! I couldn't agree more


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

FloorCandy said:


> Good post!!! I couldn't agree more


Thank you. I'm so p'd off right now the next person i see trying to breed for the wrong reasons gonna get some of this nice stick action!!!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> He is the best dog and all I want is to breed him one time. It's good for them to have at least one litter!
> 
> lol great post! :goodpost:


Well make sure at least that he's purple ribbon certified. And I dont want no rare blue i want that good ol texas rednose


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Great post Oz. Tried to give you rep, but it says I have to spread the love!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

NEELA said:


> Great post Oz. Tried to give you rep, but it says I have to spread the love!


why thank you. you guys might wanna switch me out of the mod seat after i get thru tearing some butt around here...

there's breeders like performance.... and then there's bybs in the making like BLUE PIT BULL MAN


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Thanks for all the comments yall... It's just something that needs to be said.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

I think if people did there research first that the breed and community[fancy]would be in better shape,it should be a requirement,It should be like a art,once you reach a certain level of knowledge then you should breed,the breed is just to damn accessible,that has been its down fall,its popularity and ease of breeding and acquiring intact dogs for the purpose of breeding,right now my neighbor has two pup American bully's under the age of 8 months and they will be bred once the bitch gets its first heat,breeders should require prospective owners to sign a breeding contract for good sakes,plus they should make it hard for you to acquire a pup,not just anyone deserves to own one of your pups unless they are just your run of the [puppy] mill dogs,everyone wants to be the next big breeder but nobody understands what it took for those breeders to become what they are/where.
sure its easy to buy some American bully's breed them and make a quick buck,but theres more pride to be had in selecting for the right reasons and breeding traditional dogs with traditional temperament and type.those are the truly rare and ultimate apbts in every way,jmo.
The dogs should be bred for performance first,color,size all that b.s has really destroyed the breed in a lot of ways,If you want to breed for aesthetic and the show ring call it what it is a am staff or a am bully.


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> why thank you. you guys might wanna switch me out of the mod seat after i get thru tearing some butt around here...
> 
> there's breeders like performance.... and then there's bybs in the making like BLUE PIT BULL MAN


i dont think theres a need to call anyone out. are job is to educate until we turn blue in the face, if they want to listen thats there choice, but i think theres room enough in here for everyone. JMHO
but i do agree on this thread, good posting i've gotten quite sick of it too. if you didnt know my little rampages yesterday lol


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

cane76 said:


> I think if people did there research first that the breed and community[fancy]would be in better shape,it should be a requirement,It should be like a art,once you reach a certain level of knowledge then you should breed,the breed is just to damn accessible,that has been its down fall,its popularity and ease of breeding and acquiring intact dogs for the purpose of breeding,right now my neighbor has two pup American bully's under the age of 8 months and they will be bred once the bitch gets its first heat,breeders should require prospective owners to sign a breeding contract for good sakes,plus they should make it hard for you to acquire a pup,not just anyone deserves to own one of your pups unless they are just your run of the [puppy] mill dogs,everyone wants to be the next big breeder but nobody understands what it took for those breeders to become what they are/where.
> sure its easy to buy some American bully's breed them and make a quick buck,but theres more pride to be had in selecting for the right reasons and breeding traditional dogs with traditional temperament and type.those are the truly rare and ultimate apbts in every way,jmo.
> The dogs should be bred for performance first,color,size all that b.s has really destroyed the breed in a lot of ways,If you want to breed for aesthetic and the show ring call it what it is a am staff or a am bully.


i dont see you voicing your opinion on enough threads. thanks for your input i agree 152 percent!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Nizmo357 said:


> i dont think theres a need to call anyone out. are job is to educate until we turn blue in the face, if they want to listen thats there choice, but i think theres room enough in here for everyone. JMHO
> but i do agree on this thread, good posting i've gotten quite sick of it too. if you didnt know my little rampages yesterday lol


I'm not necessarily calling anyone out.. Well I did on the Blue Pit Bull Man, I gave him a few days vacation from the board to learn about how a discussion board works..

I agree there's enough space in here for everyone.. But you know that it's about coming here, asking and learning, sharing and absorbing knowledge.. If you can't see where people are coming from on such a big issue, IMO you don't need to be posting it. It almost seemed like he posted just to make people upset because in the end he said "oh yall are just jealous"

People just need to realize breeding is the biggest issue that the breed faces. The BIGGESt. And until people can open their ears and eyes and learn something before trying to "contribute" to the breed, they will just be bybs, adding to the problem

Thanks for your input


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> I'm not necessarily calling anyone out.. Well I did on the Blue Pit Bull Man, I gave him a few days vacation from the board to learn about how a discussion board works..
> 
> I agree there's enough space in here for everyone.. But you know that it's about coming here, asking and learning, sharing and absorbing knowledge.. If you can't see where people are coming from on such a big issue, IMO you don't need to be posting it. It almost seemed like he posted just to make people upset because in the end he said "oh yall are just jealous"
> 
> ...


yeah i stopped reading that thread after the 2nd page. i gave him my input and it started to get out off hand so i just lost interest. he did start to be a little jerk tho so i fully understand why he got banned for awhile, he did deserve that lol.
i agree with you 100%


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## BmoreTrue (Jun 19, 2009)

Ooh can I breed my neutered Colby dog! Oh but he doesn't have papers.

(totally kidding )


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

Great post Oz! Although I do know that accidental breedings DO happen, sometimes it's really just... like how in the F did that happen!! On a grooming board I often times stalk (don't do much posting) a person just had their dog neutered about 2 days before this incident, this woman and her brother both share a duplex... the brother had a 2 year old collie that hadn't been fixed, at about 2 in the morning by some grace of god they both let their pups out to go to the bathroom and the male that had just been fixed 2 days before hooked up with the collie and ACTUALLY PRODUCED BABIES. i guess it's like, something that CAN happen but usually doesn't... i would consider than an accidental breeding like... to the extreme. Then again there are the other people that are like 'well, my dogs love each other so much i cannot keep them apart while shes in heat so i just watch them really good' and then the next time i talk to that particular person their female is pregnant for the third time in 3 heat cycles and i really start to get pissed off at this particular woman.

personally, i love the breed, as i am sure everyone else does that joins a forum on the breed of their dog, but i am responsible and when my dogs are old enough they are fixed. i KNOW how many poor dogs are out there, and although i didn't rescue all of my dogs, i know it's not right to be breeding out there like crazy people, trying to get some cash in this hard time, they figure hey my dog's not fixed.. why not make a couple hundred bucks with her! i know there are lot of "noobs" on this board that go around spewing out stuff that the mods and the more seasoned posters go crazy for, but i tend to just steer away from those pages because of ALL the forums that i've been a part of in my life, the APBT forums' are the most argumentative people, and i'd like to think it's because of how many people care for the dogs and just want to smack some sense into the (scuse my name calling) TOTAL IDIOTS that wander onto this board, post 1 thing and then never come back again.

for all the people that read these posts and are looking into breeding their dog(s), have already and are about to do it AGAIN, or if you're out looking for some friggin trouble... please, think again. because if you took enough time to read just a COUPLE posts about the topic you're about to post about, you'd see how quickly many members will pounce upon you. the recurring topics: breeding your dog, dog parks, dog agression in pitties, just to name a few... just look it up in the search bar instead of getting everyone all riled up again because you couldn't take a couple extra seconds to type in a simple word in the search bar. personally, before i post anything, i scour the whole site looking to see if anyone has already answered my question. often times, i am successful. 

please use your brain, people. it's not hard, i promise. =D


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## BmoreTrue (Jun 19, 2009)

Ohyea great post


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## PBGoodDogs (Feb 1, 2009)

I've always thought that breeding should be done for the improvement of the breed, not the owner's wallet. But that's just me. And since I don't know enough about the breed to breed my dog, and Lord knows there's enough puppies in the world already, she's fixed. And I'm thankful for that.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

All the BYBing makes me sick. Do these people even now what it takes to raise a litter? I have no plans to ever breed because I like to sleep, and even go out on occassion, and if I was planning a litter I would be SOL. Lady came from someone who I want to believe has the intentions of being a good reputable breeder, but ended up being a BYB. On the phone before I drove 5 hours it seemed like his heart was in the right place. He was knowledgeable about the breed, and seemed very legit. But knowing about the breed does not mean someone knows about puppy husbandry, and I think the conditions were bad because he was just overwhelmed. This can happen so easily to owners who want a litter or 2 because their dog is great, and then they end up locking older pups together in a crate because they can't find homes, and they can't handle them being out.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

You know, an accidental breeding is one thing. Those happen. An accidental _litter_ just means someone didn't have the grit to spay/abort the litter while they were still the size of a pea.

See me, if I produced a litter, I'd want it to be something that people would look at and say "that's a good one." If I threw it out there that I was planning A x B breeding and folks were like "what is your reason for breeding," etc., that would mean I messed up somewhere. I want you to see the reason I'm breeding said dogs, and agree that it is a positive thing. Can't please everybody, but if you've pleased nobody but yourself, you're screwing up.


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

i think people should breed for purpose just like i think people shouldnt drink and drive but does it happen? no. its just life its like nismo said all we can do is educate rather try to educate. ban all the people you like does it change anything? some people just dont know any better how ever sad that is...it is the truth. i think people just forgot about just enjoying their dogs and thats whats truly sad.


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## velcro (Feb 25, 2009)

:clap:breeding for performance in educated hands it one thing but just to get rich is wrong


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

thank you everyone for posting and sharing your input... Just goes to show we're all different but its kinda funny... we all get to the same point about this topic 

thanks for reading and posting


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## gxkon (Jul 13, 2009)

great post i wish more people would breed how its supost to be done im tired of these byb that dont know jack i want me a blue pit or am bully but all there breeders in my area are morons dont health test no nothing then want to put a 3500 dollar price tag on them they chumps if you ask me


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## JosipBrozTITO (Jul 18, 2009)

velcro said:


> :clap:breeding for performance in educated hands it one thing but just to get rich is wrong


u cant get rich when u breed dogs.....breeders r lucky if they break even


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

gxkon said:


> great post i wish more people would breed how its supost to be done im tired of these byb that dont know jack i want me a blue pit or am bully but all there breeders in my area are morons dont health test no nothing then want to put a 3500 dollar price tag on them they chumps if you ask me


stick around... because soon enough the staff will be able to refer you to breeders, some even within the forum... just a heads up 

not everyone is in it for the money... they should all come here to learn what its all about


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> Thank you. I'm so p'd off right now the next person i see trying to breed for the wrong reasons gonna get some of this nice stick action!!!


Reminds me of that A-hole cholo that asked me on my walk one day with Tasha, "Hey, is your dog pregnant?" I said, "no."
He said, "do you want her to be?" I said, "That's a little hard since she is spayed." He, in his vato, low-rider voice was like, "Oh man!" All that prick wanted was to make money on bad pups. I felt like kicking his ass for the fun of it. Prick! :curse:


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Proud Marine Dad said:


> Reminds me of that A-hole cholo that asked me on my walk one day with Tasha, "Hey, is your dog pregnant?" I said, "no."
> He said, "do you want her to be?" I said, "That's a little hard since she is spayed." He, in his vato, low-rider voice was like, "Oh man!" All that prick wanted was to make money on bad pups. I felt like kicking his ass for the fun of it. Prick! :curse:


dude you dont have to throw the cholo and vato in there... just to keep everything PC


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> dude you dont have to throw the cholo and vato in there... just to keep everything PC


This is CA bro, I went to school with them and those terms are not derogatory at all they are descriptive of a lifestyle and style of dressing.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Proud Marine Dad said:


> This is CA bro, I went to school with them and those terms are not derogatory at all they are descriptive of a lifestyle and style of dressing.


I'm just throwin it out there. It doesn't offend me, I am just trying to filter stuff out.. as a mod now you know?


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> I'm just throwin it out there. It doesn't offend me, I am just trying to filter stuff out.. as a mod now you know?


It's all good Oz. I am very familiar with the people I mentioned as there were about 100 of them at my High School for the class of '80. Some were friends as well even though I am a güero. :rofl:


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Proud Marine Dad said:


> It's all good Oz. I am very familiar with the people I mentioned as there were about 100 of them at my High School for the class of '80. Some were friends as well even though I am a güero. :rofl:


Lol well I'm Mexican and look white so i get "Guero" all the time. lol

But you can call me JD from LA PRIMERA hahahahaha


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## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

Me to OZ me too. I tan really well though. LOL


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Sadie's Dad said:


> Me to OZ me too. I tan really well though. LOL


me too im out in the sun for a few and im like WATCHALE!!!!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

*ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT BACKYARD BREEDERS? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THIS BREED FACES?*


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## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> I'm gonna be blunt and upfront and I don't care if you take it to heart, because truth is, if you do, it's probably directed towards you.
> 
> Ive been seeing more and more threads about people wishing to breed dogs, both papered and unpapered, wether it is planned, being planned, or unplanned. And I know there is a poll to see how many of us breed on here..
> 
> ...


BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

I think it's the biggest issue because everything else stems from it. I mean i basically state it in my last paragraph... Where do all the shelter pups come from... and where do you think Michael Vick's crew got their dogs?? I don't want to make this about MV but BYBs had to be responsible for that one. 

BYBs fuel the fire that BSL and the media has lit.


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> *ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT BACKYARD BREEDERS? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THIS BREED FACES?*


I think that is one of the biggest, yes. The other is mass hysteria by the stupid media that only cares about selling papers and TV ratings.

Do you remember the woman Lawyer in San Francisco a few years back that was killed by "two pitbulls" in her building? People freaked out over "pit bulls" when that happened but guess what? They were Presa Canarios and not APBTs! Stupid asses used the catch phrase, "pit bull" to sell the story as most people wouldn't know what a Presa even is!

PS Why are you posting in bold my friend? oke:


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

I think that the media hype is probably the second issue, because it sparks legislation interest in breed specific laws.

i just think that if there were more registered dogs, with owners participating in the community and being responsible, there wouldn't be so many "pitbull" attacks, as there would be less "mutts" and unregistered dogs. 

and i typed that question in bold because I wanted to emphasize that we had changed the topic back and summarized what i wanted people to reply on


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## King_bluebully (Aug 4, 2009)

GOOD POST.........


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## Mali_Blu (Apr 23, 2009)

Great post!


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## gxkon (Jul 13, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> stick around... because soon enough the staff will be able to refer you to breeders, some even within the forum... just a heads up
> 
> not everyone is in it for the money... they should all come here to learn what its all about


ima be here for ever i cant wait till the staff can recomend breeder cuz all the ones in the south were i stay arnt good i know theres some great ones down south but i cant find em best one i found is in MI i stay in mobile al to far for me to go and im not goin to fly a pup down here


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I'm not ready to reffer you to anyone yet, but what kind of dog are you looking for?


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## gxkon (Jul 13, 2009)

i want a ambully but when ever u ready i will take all info im just lookin into breeders now i figure march ill get one i like the blues and split faces but thats not my criteria i jus want a good breeder thats been doing it for a long time health tests the whole nine im picky more towards who i buy from than the dog its self
i wanna be able to know im getting what im payin for and not have to worrie about genetic health issues i dont mind paying someone whos breeding to make our breed better im so sick of talking to local breeders and i make them look dumb when it comes to breeding and i dont know nothing about breeding all these guys down here gives you the pup and thats it wont ever hear from them again i like the guys who call you and ask how the pups doing i find one like that im good thanx for the help


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## HoneyMiPit (Mar 8, 2009)

*Breeding*

I wish people would not breed anymore.I worked in a Shelter in a not so nice area.Their were alot of Pitbulls being putdown. I had to leave the job, could not take it.


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## tonios (Jul 24, 2009)

Staff Daddy your 100% correct, I agree! I just got lost with this... EFFIN DOGS I don't know what the heck EFFIN stands for...feel dumb!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

tonios said:


> Staff Daddy your 100% correct, I agree! I just got lost with this... EFFIN DOGS I don't know what the heck EFFIN stands for...feel dumb!


effin is the nice way to say f**king


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## tonios (Jul 24, 2009)

Oh - F!,
how the heck did I miss that!...I was reading way too hard into your Post! Thanks


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## OUTLAW (Nov 3, 2006)

StaffyDaddy said:


> I think it's the biggest issue because everything else stems from it. I mean i basically state it in my last paragraph... Where do all the shelter pups come from... and where do you think Michael Vick's crew got their dogs?? I don't want to make this about MV but BYBs had to be responsible for that one.
> 
> BYBs fuel the fire that BSL and the media has lit.


I have to disagree there! Even the most responsible breeder/kennel could fall victim of mistaking a well known celebrity for a great candidate for ownership!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

OUTLAW said:


> I have to disagree there! Even the most responsible breeder/kennel could fall victim of mistaking a well known celebrity for a great candidate for ownership!


yeah youre right, but that doesn't happen anywhere near as much as bybing in general. and if you think michael vick and any other celebrity is the breed's biggest issue right now, then you have a very narrow point of view.

...."mistaking a well known celebrity for a great candidate for ownership..."

can you tell me who you were reffering to? cuz if it's vick, that might be the biggest problem to you, but not the whole apbt community.


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## OUTLAW (Nov 3, 2006)

StaffyDaddy said:


> dude you dont have to throw the cholo and vato in there... just to keep everything PC


Don Imus type views resemble atleast to me the prejudice our breed receives. Prejudice: An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts. 
A preconceived preference or idea. 
The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection. 
Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion. 
Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

OUTLAW said:


> Don Imus type views resemble atleast to me the prejudice our breed receives. Prejudice: An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
> A preconceived preference or idea.
> The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
> Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
> Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.


how about stating it in simpler terms?


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## OUTLAW (Nov 3, 2006)

How bout ignorance has no place within this forum. Those type views only parallel the very ignorance our breed has come face! Backyard breeders are ignorant too! So let's get back to educating one another on the facts and keep the ignorance to a minimum. Thanks.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

OUTLAW said:


> How bout ignorance has no place within this forum. Those type views only parallel the very ignorance our breed has come face! Backyard breeders are ignorant too! So let's get back to educating one another on the facts and keep the ignorance to a minimum. Thanks.


ignorance to a minimum? what facts are you bringing to this discussion? nice subtle way to say im ignorant? is that it?


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## tonios (Jul 24, 2009)

FOLKs! Come on! The forum is to educate each other not rip each others necks off. Lets keep the debate going but we can do with out the name calling, let keep it civil... remember for the most part you guys are the Educators for the rest of us.


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## OUTLAW (Nov 3, 2006)

StaffyDaddy said:


> yeah youre right, but that doesn't happen anywhere near as much as bybing in general. and if you think michael vick and any other celebrity is the breed's biggest issue right now, then you have a very narrow point of view.
> 
> ...."mistaking a well known celebrity for a great candidate for ownership..."
> 
> can you tell me who you were reffering to? cuz if it's vick, that might be the biggest problem to you, but not the whole apbt community.


I was merely stating that you dont know where on GOD'S green earth those dogs came from! Ignorance is the breeds biggest problem! Not Micheal Vick! Im glad he's trying to help the breed he once hurt! It's called redemption and its a good thing!


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

Good posting.... even the reputable breeders started out from the bottom, but the difference in my opinion between them and BYB's is a reputable breeder breeds for all the right reasons like temperment, soundness, health..etc... and they are willing to back what they breed up. Most BYB's only breed for the money and will lie, guilt free, to just sell a pup.
Just about every pit owner I know is bias thinking they got the greatest pit on the planet. It is good to feel that way about your dog, but is it breed worthy. Just because you think you got the greatest and prettiest pit on the block does not make it breed worthy. Bloodsports is no longer allowed so this breed is having to find it's place among other sports. Alot of people do not like this. Partly due to the fact that pits are excelling in agility, fly ball, dock diving, etc. and alot of dog sports enthusiast think that the pit is an intrusion.
Sure we still have dog fighting today and as long as there are dogs there will always be dog fighting. It is a neverending cycle. Some people agree with it and alot doesn't agree with fighting. 
Dogs will always be bred for fighting, that is how some people make their livelyhood. In my opinion it is not right. Just like dogs will always be bred for their look, size, bloodlines, etc. BYB's are like dog fighters, they will always be in this world no matter what. As long as there is a buck to be made you will find them. 
Accidental breedings happen, but it is up to you, the adult, to learn from your mistake and make sure it never happens again...if it was truely an honest mistake. If you are a BYB that always has "accidental" hang ups.. then why are you lying? Are you ashamed of what people might think of you? Are you worried about being judged? You sure are not worried when the money is being handed over! Say you are what you are! If you are breeding your dog then say you are! It's your life and no one on here can change it, except to try and educate you in the proper way of breeding a quality dog.
You will always have critics, esp. on a forum. Any one of us on here can be giving out BS on a daily basis, how are we to know any better. That is were honesty and morals come in to play.
Breeding dogss just for the hell of it is just a waste. Especially when any Tom, Dick and Harry can get a hold of the breed. Pit Bulls are not for everyone, but when they became a fashion and hood ornament, everyone had or has to have one. I cannot tell you how many people call me or come by because they bought a dog they cannot control, just as a pup. I cannot tell you how many times I have been driving down the road and some punk is letting his dog drag him down the road on a big logging chain. They do this on purpose..they think the dog constantly pulling makes it look tougher and half the time the dog came from someone just breeding to make a buck and because they were cheap.
BYB's will always be, esp. around my neck of the woods. Alot of dog fighter's buy the dogs because they are cheap and if the dog does not win in a fight they did not have alot of money invested and can always go back and get another one. Like I said it is a neverending cycle.


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

OUTLAW said:


> Ignorance is the breeds biggest problem! Not Micheal Vick! Im glad he's trying to help the breed he once hurt! It's called redemption and its a good thing!


How can you be sure Vick's newest diatribe is indeed, "redemption?" 
I think he is full of $hit as a Christmas goose and is only "trying to help the breed" because he got caught and knows the public won't accept his so-called, change of heart unless he spins a positive image. I think it is all PR to get him favor in the public eye and nothing else. This lunatic shot, strangled, drowned and beat dogs on the concrete until they were dead and now he is redeemed? 
He sounds like a sociopath to me. Hurting animals is one of the first steps up the ladder for a serial killer you know. Not saying he will become one but he is definitely not someone I would want my kids watching on TV or looking up to.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

wether or not it's just so he looks good publicly he's making a difference. you don't know him personally, you dont walk in his shoes. it's easy to say that people don't change, but then again, have you done time? have you stood in front of a judge? you say youd do time and blah blah blah but you can't say that. Youve never been in that spot. So how can you judge others? He f**ked up Mike.. Big time... I don't like him. I lost a lot of respect for him as a human, even, but he's doing what he's doing, spreading awareness and wether or not it's forced on him, think of the impact it has on the viewers and fans. just a little somethign to chew on


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

OUTLAW said:


> Don Imus type views resemble atleast to me the prejudice our breed receives. Prejudice: An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
> A preconceived preference or idea.
> The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
> Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
> Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.


That is everywhere bud!!! 
Most ignorance comes from stereo-typing hypocrits who think they know everything there is about a certain subject. They neither educate themselves on true facts or go by any other word but their own.
You are only ignorant by either not learning your first time around or by a simple accident you made that you truely thought was right..which makes it a mistake.Everybody is ignorant about something. There are alot of ignorant people in this world, esp. when it comes to this breed. It takes people who know the breed through and through to give out good critism, point out the right way to do things, and give good honest to god opinions to the "ignorant" people. They are only ignorant because they are uneducated on the subject at hand. 
Doing it this way is really the only way..education on the breed.


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> wether or not it's just so he looks good publicly he's making a difference. you don't know him personally, you dont walk in his shoes. it's easy to say that people don't change, but then again, have you done time? have you stood in front of a judge? you say youd do time and blah blah blah but you can't say that. Youve never been in that spot. So how can you judge others? He f**ked up Mike.. Big time... I don't like him. I lost a lot of respect for him as a human, even, but he's doing what he's doing, spreading awareness and wether or not it's forced on him, think of the impact it has on the viewers and fans. just a little somethign to chew on


Do you know him personally Oz? Can you say for a matter of fact that my post is incorrect? No you can't! So yours is no better of an opinion than mine so don't defend this guy until you know for certain he is indeed changed. Whether he helps the breed or not with his PR is inconsequential to me, I am talking about the man, not his words. People in the spotlight will say anything the viewers want to hear if it will further their cause whatever that may be. In his case I think it is to make lots of money again in a sport that should never give him that privilege again!


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

StaffyDaddy said:


> wether or not it's just so he looks good publicly he's making a difference. you don't know him personally, you dont walk in his shoes. it's easy to say that people don't change, but then again, have you done time? have you stood in front of a judge? you say youd do time and blah blah blah but you can't say that. Youve never been in that spot. So how can you judge others? He f**ked up Mike.. Big time... I don't like him. I lost a lot of respect for him as a human, even, but he's doing what he's doing, spreading awareness and wether or not it's forced on him, think of the impact it has on the viewers and fans. just a little somethign to chew on


You are right to a point. Even though he is the scum he is, he still has the eyes and ears of alot of youths and people in this world.
Alot of people still look up to this man!
Alot of people do not see animals the way alot of us on here do. They are what they are, just ANIMALS to alot of people.
No not everyone will be listening to him, but just think for a minute that one little kid wanting to get into the "dog fighting" life. What difference, impact, could his words be to that child..(mike's words being forced or not).
It is easy to judge people by what they have done and alot harder to accept what they are trying to do now. Not saying that he should be a role model, but if he could change the life of one person, shouldn't that count for something?
Everyone makes mistakes, we have the right to learn from the mistakes we make, thats part of what makes us human. He was a celebrity that got caught. I think actions should speak louder than words. Why is it that we can let murderers out of jail and say they are totally rehabilitated and be more acceptiing of that? Why because it is on paper?
Not saying the Vick should be granted immunity or anything, but if his words,awareness, will change the life of someone trying to go down his same road, then I say let it happen.
Sorry to say, but his words would better impact the country more then ours.

I do not think he should be allowed back in the NFL though, but someone will pick him up!

I know I will probably get alot of fuss over what I just posted..but everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

no i don't know him but then again i'm human and ive gotten my share of second chances that should be the case with anyone who has served time, celebrity or your common joe. it's not our place to cast judgement on others, ultimately the time you serve will be for God, and he makes the last call. 

I'm not saying you're wrong, just simply trying to pry your hands from the tool that youre using to beat this subject even more. Michael Vick is a drop in the bucket. I just can't see why anyone seriously wants to go on and on about something that is said and done. 

I never said that I knew what his intentions, but to the media, what he's doing makes a big impact. like i said what's done is done.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

MetalGirl30 said:


> It is easy to judge people by what they have done and alot harder to accept what they are trying to do now. Not saying that he should be a role model, but if he could change the life of one person, shouldn't that count for something?
> 
> Sorry to say, but his words would better impact the country more then ours.
> 
> I know I will probably get alot of fuss over what I just posted..but everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.


I'm sorry I kinda cut some stuff out... But the point you made about him making an impact on someone that looks up to him... regardless of wether he's forced or not, he's still making a difference. He is scum in my book, but it's not my choice wether he plays or not.. So it is what it is


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## tonios (Jul 24, 2009)

Damn! I'm reading these posts this is one's good debate. Everyones entitle to their opinions. I myself can agree and disagree at the same time with the same poster...To me it all good, food for thoughts. And as for Vicks I'm still trying to figure out what the hell was he thinking???? once you become a public figure your life is no longer private, I guess he forgot that part.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

tonios said:


> once you become a public figure your life is no longer private, I guess he forgot that part.


OH MAN SO TRUE!!! LOL


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

MetalGirl30 said:


> Why is it that we can let murderers out of jail and say they are totally rehabilitated and be more acceptiing of that?


Let's compare the differences though. That murderer whether rehabilitated or not is not going to be able to find work very easily because of his record and that is a fact and understandable is it not? He broke the law and although he served "time" there are repercussions to the actions taken and rightly so. That person is going to have to struggle to make a living in this world but these celebrities have no clue what it is to have to work for a living. 
I am a security officer and guess what? Neither Michael Vick or any other person with a criminal record can work for the company I work for or most other security companies. Is that fair? I think it is because past actions dictate possibilities in the future and that is a liability. I agree with you though that he should not be allowed back in the NFL and everyone I have spoken to agrees. 
To play professional sports in my opinion is a privilege not a right and when you step over the boundaries I think you should lose that privilege.


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> no i don't know him but then again i'm human and ive gotten my share of second chances that should be the case with anyone who has served time, celebrity or your common joe. it's not our place to cast judgement on others, ultimately the time you serve will be for God, and he makes the last call.
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong, just simply trying to pry your hands from the tool that youre using to beat this subject even more. Michael Vick is a drop in the bucket. I just can't see why anyone seriously wants to go on and on about something that is said and done.
> 
> I never said that I knew what his intentions, but to the media, what he's doing makes a big impact. like i said what's done is done.


Well bro, since we are APBT lovers I would think this subject would be a moot point. I am frankly amazed that some people on this forum think this scumbag should be allowed to play sports again despite the atrocious behavior he has shown towards a helpless animal that had no way to defend itself against his attacks on it.

Yes Oz we are all human and yes we all make mistakes but some actions require repercussions regardless of whether time was served or not according to lawmakers. Just as a murderer can never own a gun again or a sexual molester can no longer be near children despite whether they are rehabilitated or not, I think people like Vick should not be allowed to be in professional sports again.


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## tonios (Jul 24, 2009)

Proud Marine Dad said:


> privilege not a right.


But that's the thing with Celebrities and other high profile people the Law is completely different when money is involve...the NFL and affiliated that's money! Did we forget O.J. already?...lol


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## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

tonios said:


> But that's the thing with Celebrities and other high profile people the Law is completely different when money is involve...the NFL and affiliated that's money! Did we forget O.J. already?...lol


It shouldn't be that way If I go out and kill my wife I am going away for a long time because I don't have the money to get Johnny Cochran or how ever the heck you spell it. I mean when you are convicted in a civil court and have to pay monetary damages, but you are not convicted in your murder trial that to me is way f'd up. Just like Vick if he did the time of a real dog fighter he would still be in prison just like Johnny Ray Lewis.

Houston County, Ala., Judge Ed Jackson handed dogfighter Johnny Ray Lewis a 102-year prison sentence on Nov. 13, 2007. According to the Dothan Eagle, Lewis was first arrested in 2005, when authorities uncovered 17 injured and scarred dogs on his property.

They took what 30 dogs from Vicks compound. Celebrity or not he shoud still be in jail IMHO


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Sadie's Dad said:


> It shouldn't be that way If I go out and kill my wife I am going away for a long time because I don't have the money to get Johnny Cochran or how ever the heck you spell it. I mean when you are convicted in a civil court and have to pay monetary damages, but you are not convicted in your murder trial that to me is way f'd up. Just like Vick if he did the time of a real dog fighter he would still be in prison just like Johnny Ray Lewis.
> 
> Houston County, Ala., Judge Ed Jackson handed dogfighter Johnny Ray Lewis a 102-year prison sentence on Nov. 13, 2007. According to the Dothan Eagle, Lewis was first arrested in 2005, when authorities uncovered 17 injured and scarred dogs on his property.
> 
> They took what 30 dogs from Vicks compound. Celebrity or not he shoud still be in jail IMHO


All I have to say is if it's not right that money can buy your freedom, it goes deeper than the pockets of the ones paying.


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## njpit (Aug 1, 2009)

Sadie's Dad said:


> It shouldn't be that way If I go out and kill my wife I am going away for a long time because I don't have the money to get Johnny Cochran or how ever the heck you spell it. I mean when you are convicted in a civil court and have to pay monetary damages, but you are not convicted in your murder trial that to me is way f'd up. Just like Vick if he did the time of a real dog fighter he would still be in prison just like Johnny Ray Lewis.
> 
> Houston County, Ala., Judge Ed Jackson handed dogfighter Johnny Ray Lewis a 102-year prison sentence on Nov. 13, 2007. According to the Dothan Eagle, Lewis was first arrested in 2005, when authorities uncovered 17 injured and scarred dogs on his property.
> 
> They took what 30 dogs from Vicks compound. Celebrity or not he shoud still be in jail IMHO


yea the thing is i dont believe vick was convicted of fighting dogs , just funding and making the operation available...its all in the wording


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## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

njpit said:


> yea the thing is i dont believe vick was convicted of fighting dogs , just funding and making the operation available...its all in the wording


True but all that stuff was at his house. Possesion is 9/10 of the law. So it is all his sh$t.


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## njpit (Aug 1, 2009)

Sadie's Dad said:


> True but all that stuff was at his house. Possesion is 9/10 of the law. So it is all his sh$t.


I hear ya , I dont think I could have killed those dogs in that manner, there is something else going on much bigger than just the dogs, and at the same time I found a site with a old time dogman and he laughed at the vick situation and bragged about culling hundreds of dogs over the years. Without dogfighting we wouldnt have our dogs, out atleast not with the same well known characteristics as they have...


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## Lost_Kaus89 (Aug 4, 2009)

gxkon said:


> great post i wish more people would breed how its supost to be done im tired of these byb that dont know jack i want me a blue pit or am bully but all there breeders in my area are morons dont health test no nothing then want to put a 3500 dollar price tag on them they chumps if you ask me


Hey have you ever heard of a guy named Ray Certified he's from L.A and he sells Blue ambully puppys Idon't think he's a byb or anything actually on his site it claims that he's the only county certified ambully breeder in L.A County and he states that he has health certificates on all of his dogs. I noticed on a few post that you were in the search for this particular type of bully so I just wanted to help you out a bit.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

njpit said:


> I hear ya , I dont think I could have killed those dogs in that manner, there is something else going on much bigger than just the dogs, and at the same time I found a site with a old time dogman and he laughed at the vick situation and bragged about culling hundreds of dogs over the years. Without dogfighting we wouldnt have our dogs, out atleast not with the same well known characteristics as they have...


see this is where i have to agree.. I think what he did is terrible in todays time, but then you think about the origins of this breed. how did the gamebred lines get their game? Why were dogs healthier back then? Because it was all about the performance. not the look. or any other things. how many dogs were killed to establish bordeaux dogs, or chinaman, maverick, ofrn....

the point is what he did is wrong because he committed a crime. he funded it, but in my opinion since he had the money for all the equipment and his crew ran the show, that's the lesser of two evils and he did his time. I don't think that he should play football, but i think he has done his time.

I really want to get off the subject of michael vick because I believe every one of us on the topic are wasting our breath. this really was directed at backyard breeders because the truth is, those lines were established to improve the breed, and create a dog that was made to work, and not bred for any of the greedy reasons that backyard breeders pair dogs for.


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## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> see this is where i have to agree.. I think what he did is terrible in todays time, but then you think about the origins of this breed. how did the gamebred lines get their game? Why were dogs healthier back then? Because it was all about the performance. not the look. or any other things. how many dogs were killed to establish bordeaux dogs, or chinaman, maverick, ofrn....
> 
> the point is what he did is wrong because he committed a crime. he funded it, but in my opinion since he had the money for all the equipment and his crew ran the show, that's the lesser of two evils and he did his time. I don't think that he should play football, but i think he has done his time.
> 
> I really want to get off the subject of michael vick because I believe every one of us on the topic are wasting our breath. this really was directed at backyard breeders because the truth is, those lines were established to improve the breed, and create a dog that was made to work, and not bred for any of the greedy reasons that backyard breeders pair dogs for.


Here here I second the motion.


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

I'd like to hear any opinions on a planned breeding by a responsible breeder that resulted in inferior animals, Because it can and does happen! 
What should be done with them?
There is no absolutes in breeding animals and the way genes can line up. 
Sold as puppies before evaluation? (Irresponsible for a breeder)
Should they be sterilized and placed in a pet home? ( potential accident waiting to happen) or swept under the rug so to speak (for lack of kinder words)
I know what I would do!
I feel that it takes a lot of sense, a little luck, and an iron will with certain amount of ruthlessness to become a responsible breeder bettering this breed through superior animals from planned breedings! 
Things don't always go as planned at times!
So what to do when the rejecto gene rears its ugly head? Lop it off? Or let it live? 
I know that may sound harsh to some and I hope to get some differating opinions on this subject that needs discussion and some understanding from both sides of the fence.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

lop it off... selective breeding is the only real responsible breeding


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## 1grindhard (Jul 7, 2009)

everybody has an opinion about breeding well mine is that this america and all you people who got so much 2 say about bsl and all that crap and banning the breed,did any of you go to any of the meetings where these laws where passed,NO, NOW you want to sit around and tell people what they should or shouldnt do with THIER dogs get a life,no1 told your parents to mate but guess what sadly your here,but this is human nature to control and or manipulate


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## PBGoodDogs (Feb 1, 2009)

1grindhard said:


> everybody has an opinion about breeding well mine is that this america and all you people who got so much 2 say about bsl and all that crap and banning the breed,did any of you go to any of the meetings where these laws where passed,NO, NOW you want to sit around and tell people what they should or shouldnt do with THIER dogs get a life,no1 told your parents to mate but guess what sadly your here,but this is human nature to control and or manipulate


First of all, why hasn't this mental midget been banned yet? Secondly, nice obliteration of the English language there, Chief. Finally, you sound like a "gettin mah moneyz raht" kind of breeder.


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

PBGoodDogs said:


> First of all, why hasn't this mental midget been banned yet? Secondly, nice obliteration of the English language there, Chief. Finally, you sound like a "gettin mah moneyz raht" kind of breeder.


I was wondering the same thing. How can you post when your name says you got the ban stick?


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## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

Proud Marine Dad said:


> I was wondering the same thing. How can you post when your name says you got the ban stick?


He hadn't been banned yet.


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

Sadie's Dad said:


> He hadn't been banned yet.


Now I am confused Paul.

He posted the above message yesterday and I thought I have seen this name here a while back with the banned on it? Maybe I am wrong.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

No he posted that before he got banned


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## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> No he posted that before he got banned


Yeah what OZ said LOL


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

Thanks Oz. There are too many to keep track of so it confuses me sometimes. :rofl:


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

yeah idiots by the masses. i can't believe what that guy was saying lol... he's just mad cuz he's got BYB stamped on his face


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> yeah idiots by the masses. i can't believe what that guy was saying lol... he's just mad cuz he's got BYB stamped on his face


Doesn't it scare you to think that youths like him will one day run this country? 
God help us!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

What makes you think that moron could be president?!


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## Proud Marine Dad (Apr 1, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> What makes you think that moron could be president?!


I didn't mean President, although it wouldn't surprise me considering some of the most recent ones. :rofl:
I was talking about other areas like Senators, Congressmen, etc. All walks of life. Maybe they will grow up. I sure hope so.


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## PBGoodDogs (Feb 1, 2009)

Thank God that ijit got the ban stick. Hopefully he/she/it wises up before he/she/it does any real damage to the dog world in general.


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## Gnarley44 (Jul 11, 2009)

PBGoodDogs said:


> First of all, why hasn't this mental midget been banned yet?.


Mental midget? LMFAO, that was great!!:clap:


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## Cream is Pitbulls (Aug 15, 2009)

You put it down staff and its so true and whats with these pople thinking breeding is the new thing??


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## Cream is Pitbulls (Aug 15, 2009)

1grindhard said:


> everybody has an opinion about breeding well mine is that this america and all you people who got so much 2 say about bsl and all that crap and banning the breed,did any of you go to any of the meetings where these laws where passed,NO, NOW you want to sit around and tell people what they should or shouldnt do with THIER dogs get a life,no1 told your parents to mate but guess what sadly your here,but this is human nature to control and or manipulate


Excuse me???????


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