# How did the bad reputation start?



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I have always read that the pit bull went from a quietly talked about breed to an all out bad guy in the media. And I heard that it occurred sometime after the banning of dog fighting. I heard this was due to people getting out of the fighting sports just turning their dogs loose, but don't know if it's true or not. Do you think that the banning of dog fighting brought a lot of attention to a little known sport... thus the thugs saw it and decided they needed to get a pit bull? I just wonder when the first pit bull attacks were reported in the media and how all of the myths such as locking jaws got started.


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm not sure. I watched a documentary a long time ago that said it started after a report on the news showed images of dog fighting.

And DMX having his dogs barking and lunging at each other in his videos didn't help either.


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

Celestial88 said:


> I'm not sure. I watched a documentary a long time ago that said it started after a report on the news showed images of dog fighting.
> 
> And DMX having his dogs barking and lunging at each other in his videos didn't help either.


did you watch "Off the Chain"... i know they show that DMX video in it (IMO stupid movie that made no sense)  i think people are just afraid of what they dont understand... after people saw pics/videos of dog in pits then it terrified them of the thought of them running loose.. JMO


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Well at one point in time the APBT was considered the American dog. Many people owned them for their loyalty to the family members and at this time in history not all were dogmen or fighters. 

IMO it slowly started to turn probably in the late 60's and 70s, the more the demand was the more BYB's started popping up across the country and thats when HA APBT and other genetic flaws started popping up more heavily.

In the 80's (i believe) a Sports mag publicized on the cover a "vicious pit bull" with large bold lettering "BEWARE OF THIS DOG", for the life of me i can't remember the mag that produced this but ive seen pictures of, ill try and find it again. Even though in the public eye things had already started turning against the breed once this was published every person wanting to establish a reputation of being "bad" and "tough" wanted this dog because of the pictures and misinformation it had provided.

in the mid 80's on up to early 00's underground pit-fighting started on a huge rise and of course, majority hurt the breed. BYB's also had a huge impact producing horrible "examples" of the breed.

Another thing is in the early 90's American Bullies started rising up as well, which as you well know added (still does today) confusion on what exactly is an APBT and in my opinion right around the time AmBullies started gaining popularity is when people started believing more and more that APBT were huge, muscular vicious man eaters.

the 1970s - 1990s was the biggest hit for the breed. Now, everyone wants one because they feel they are qualified to rehab the image but honestly most don't even or know what an APBT is and the large portion of others don't have enough knowledge or understanding of the breed to even own one... which in return is counterproductive.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

I think that the APBT has always had a bad reputation since day one because of its use in dog fighting. Dog fighting wasn't accepted by everyone, even when it was legal. People just looked at the dog as an extension of the owner and deemed it just as evil. It is similar to how people feel about handguns; they hate handguns even though it is the human that pulls the trigger every time. "Punish the deed, not the breed" is the slogan that attempts to clarify the issue, in pit bull terms All my opinion of course


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## L4NE4 (Apr 8, 2011)

Saint Francis said:


> I think that the APBT has always had a bad reputation since day one because of its use in dog fighting. Dog fighting wasn't accepted by everyone, even when it was legal. People just looked at the dog as an extension of the owner and deemed it just as evil. It is similar to how people feel about handguns; they hate handguns even though it is the human that pulls the trigger every time. "Punish the deed, not the breed" is the slogan that attempts to clarify the issue, in pit bull terms All my opinion of course


Completely agree with you. I am an avid shooter and huge supporter of the second amendment. I always tell my friends that I probably make a lot of democrats very uncomfortable... I have a pitbull, own lots of guns, and go to church.  (no offense to democrats here, dont need to start a debate).


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

The biggest mistake behind this breed is dog men letting these dog's go into the hands of the general population. That was the start of it all. Bulldog's don't belong in the hands of the general population the general public never needed fighting dog's as pets even though they were family dog's they were still bred for one purpose and that was blood sports. It's not a matter of them being fought because dog men are not responsible for the APBT attacks on humans or the constant attacks on other dog's the general pet bull owner's are. Dog men knew these dog's and what they were created for so they knew how to properly maintain them and could keep them safe they bred the dog's to a standard and they culled what needed to be culled. Where they messed up at was putting them in the hands of novice owner's who really don't understand this breeds genetic make up. As a result the breed became popular and when something becomes popular amongst the masses you are bound to have a great deal of idiots mixed into the equation. These dog's became over bred by the inexperienced idiots , and the breed slowly began to fall apart. Dog men should have never allowed these dog's to go into the hands of the general public they are fighting dog's first and foremost and need to be with people who understand and respect that. Now we have people trying to create a false image for this breed, taking them to dog parks, breeding them to arse backwards standards. Trying to turn them into spoodles because they can't handle them for what they were bred to be. It's completely screwed up and I for one appreciate those left still breeding these dog's to the standard for which they were created.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> Well at one point in time the APBT was considered the American dog. Many people owned them for their loyalty to the family members and at this time in history not all were dogmen or fighters.
> 
> IMO it slowly started to turn probably in the late 60's and 70s, the more the demand was the more BYB's started popping up across the country and thats when HA APBT and other genetic flaws started popping up more heavily.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:



Sadie said:


> The biggest mistake behind this breed is dog men letting these dog's go into the hands of the general population. That was the start of it all. Bulldog's don't belong in the hands of the general population the general public never needed fighting dog's as pets even though they were family dog's they were still bred for one purpose and that was blood sports. It's not a matter of them being fought because dog men are not responsible for the APBT attacks on humans or the constant attacks on other dog's the general pet bull owner's are. Dog men knew these dog's and what they were created for so they knew how to properly maintain them and could keep them safe they bred the dog's to a standard and they culled what needed to be culled. Where they messed up at was putting them in the hands of novice owner's who really don't understand this breeds genetic make up. As a result the breed became popular and when something becomes popular amongst the masses you are bound to have a great deal of idiots mixed into the equation. These dog's became over bred by the inexperienced idiots , and the breed slowly began to fall apart. Dog men should have never allowed these dog's to go into the hands of the general public they are fighting dog's first and foremost and need to be with people who understand and respect that. Now we have people trying to create a false image for this breed, taking them to dog parks, breeding them to arse backwards standards. Trying to turn them into spoodles because they can't handle them for what they were bred to be. It's completely screwed up and I for one appreciate those left still breeding these dog's to the standard for which they were created.


:goodpost: Totally agree with both of these statements.

Edit: I'll just add that this was an excellent question by SGH. We're always talking about how these dogs *aren't* HA so it's interesting to see where the bad reputation started.


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## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

Excuse my question or ignorance. If the dogmen hadnt let the dogs out to the general public would we be here?

Again just a question, no ignorant intent


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

00 S/C Lightning said:


> Excuse my question or ignorance. If the dogmen hadnt let the dogs out to the general public would we be here?
> 
> Again just a question, no ignorant intent


No, I don't think we would be, Jimmy. Then again, we wouldn't have as many (if any) "breed saviours" as we do now either. Many (not all) of those people I feel are doing just as good a job of endangering the breed as those who advocate BSL. Nor would we have the rabid media coverage of any dog attack that can even be loosely associated with "pit bulls".


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

This is proving to be very interesting. 


Oh and yeah I saw that video, I don't remember it that well it was awhile ago. But I did remember several false statements, myths, etc. 

Although it is a good documentary if you're dealing with someone who doesn't believe dog fighting is real.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Well, I am personally glad that the general population got a chance to own this breed...or I wouldn't be owning one currently LOL!!! It was inevitable anyway because no one group actually "owns" this breed. I do believe the APBT should be bred to the standards though EDIT: You beat me to it Jimmy!!


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## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

Lol st. francis i agree with sadie though. If what she said never came to be outside their runs there wouldnt be a bad rap

Personally i think the fight is worth fighting


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

HOW much of an affect do you think the rap game brought to the breed? IMO..DMX was a big one about fifteen years ago. I had never seen so many pits in Boston until rappers started putting them in there videos. There were others besides DMX but he is the main one that sticks in my mind because of the "whats my name" video. Seems to me that all the attention these dogs got in rap videos started making them popular in the hood and urban areas. Around Boston it is the urban areas where most dog attacks occur. I hate DMX. He has been in trouble for animal neglect and abuse at least twice that I can remember. Here's the wonderful video with the pits.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Jimmy, I agree also, but only to a certain point. Actually the point is moot as it stands and we will never know what would have happened if the "dogmen" kept them more closely guarded. These same dogmen were no saviors either, they were human beings with the same character flaws that we all possess. Like I said, it was inevitable that John Q Public learned to love this breed, there's no shame in that. And while I respect the history of the breed and the trait to fight that was bred into them, it's only a very small part of why I own one. I don't believe I'm tarnishing the APBT by not strictly adhering to the dogmen's practices. There's just too much enjoyment to be had with this breed. Obviously the APBT isn't for everyone, and that's a fact, but you will always have the misguided doing what they do, and that's a fact as well. If Jurassic Park really existed, we would all be tempted to get a dinosaur LOL! It is what it is. We are all hypocrites to some degree, myself included. When you really think about it, what breed hasn't seen this happen over time? And YES, the fight is a good one


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Honestly like I said what business does the public have owning a fighting dog? NONE! They didn't need to ever be placed in the hands of the public EVER! Am yes I am glad I have my dogs yes but I would gladly save the breed by going back in time and changing the way these dog's were leaked into the hands of NON dog fighter's we wouldn't have the issues we have today and the breed wouldn't be in danger of being outlawed everywhere in the world. These dog's were not made to be house pet's or show pet's they were bred for blood sports. That is the reality of this breed. Now all we can do is care for them and love them and keep them safe the way dog men of the past did. Most people nowadays can't even bare the thought of accepting what these dog's were bred for they want to hide their past or ignore it. That does the breed no good when their owner's can't accept them for what they are .. the bleeding hearts and pet bull owner's wanting to change these dog's instead of embracing them for being bulldogs. We can't properly care for them if we can't acknowledge their past and the reason for their existence. I love my dog's enough that I would gladly give them up to save this breed from the destruction that the idiots have caused this breed from irresponsible owner ship and bad breeding. Dog men might have fought these dog's but they were not the ones who caused the bad media press and tarnished image the general public did!!! When they were breeding and fighting these dog's they were the All American Dog! People may not want to point the finger's at themselves it's much easier to just blame dog fighter's for everything. But all you have to do is look at the bigger picture you don't see dog fighter's making headlines for their pit bull's mauling some kid or getting out the yard. You don't see dog men making headlines for taking their bulldogs to the dog parks or their bulldog's attacking and killing another dog. Dog men made sure they kept their dog's on chains, they culled the bad seed's, and they matched their dog's with fellow dog men. When dog fighter's make headlines it's for getting busted for matching dogs. It's not because one of their dog's killed a human, a small child, or another person's dog.


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## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> Jimmy, I agree also, but only to a certain point. Actually the point is moot as it stands and we will never know what would have happened if the "dogmen" kept them more closely guarded. These same dogmen were no saviors either, they were human beings with the same character flaws that we all possess. Like I said, it was inevitable that John Q Public learned to love this breed, there's no shame in that. And while I respect the history of the breed and the trait to fight that was bred into them, it's only a very small part of why I own one. I don't believe I'm tarnishing the APBT by not strictly adhering to the dogmen's practices. There's just too much enjoyment to be had with this breed. Obviously the APBT isn't for everyone, and that's a fact, but you will always have the misguided doing what they do, and that's a fact as well. If Jurassic Park really existed, we would all be tempted to get a dinosaur LOL! It is what it is. We are all hypocrites to some degree, myself included. When you really think about it, what breed hasn't seen this happen over time? And YES, the fight is a good one


:goodpost: i agree


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

SF your missing the point dog men had a reason to keep fighting dog's the general population did NOT. It's not about their character it's about their ability to maintain these dog's and care for them the way they should be cared for. People today piss all over dog men you know how many member's have come on here and have no regards or respect for the creator's of these dogs? They wouldn't even take the time to pick up a book written by one of these dog men. They would rather spit on them first! The sad thing is most of the people who own these dog's now own them and have no respect for the dog men who created them or for the breeds fighting history. I read posts all day long from the same type of owner's coming on here and spitting on these dog men and this breeds past. Yet they claim to love their dog's so much by taking them to dog parks LMAO!!! These dog's are gladiator's that's what they are they are not toy poodles, they are not fu fu dog's that should live amongst other dog's in peace and harmony. The very people who claim they are trying to save them are the same people ruining them!!!! 99.9% of the population has no business owning these dogs. I feel very strongly about this for very good reasons.

PS Dog fighting back then was a sociably accepted event/sport where kids and their families would all go to watch for entertainment. It was not looked down upon until much later on down the line.


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

i think alot of it happened in the 80s when they became popular ghetto dogs because homie wanted a fytin dog yo. then , unlike real dogmen , they did all they could to make them mean as hell to impress their friends. the ghetto is no place fo these dogs , they cant be contained like that .. with roped and makeshift kennels.. and you know darn well when one gets loose noone is gonna step up and take the hit when thier dog bites the crap outta a innocent kid.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Okay DMX didn't help but i can assure all of you that the image was destroyed LONG before his videos. 

This breed hardly exists anymore, between people breeding turds that claim to be APBT, people breeding these "petbulls" and purposely mixing for profit, etc. I agree with Sadie 100% and i couldn't be happier that someone on this forum actually gets it! 

The best future the APBT has is being bred as a working dog which at the moment hardly ANYONE does.

In fact i ask any one here, if you are not working your dog in some way or another, why do you even own this breed? Because you can? Because you want to restore the image? What? 

If you are not at very (and i do mean very) least exercising your apbt (or apbt mix) at least a few hours a day why do you own one? Yeah i understand some days might be be bad weather, sick, etc but as a general rule. There is ZERO point in owning an APBT if you just want a family pet. ZERO. This breed (if well bred) has too much drive, too much energy, too much motivation to work to just sit around being a pet. It needs some kind of work or heavy exercise to be happy and well rounded.

Whether we like it or not whats done is done as to the dogmen releasing the dog and the image. Its up to responsible owners and breeders now to figure out exactly where we go from now. For me just allowing this breed to wither away just being a "family pet" should not be a buyable option. We should come together and figure out what to do LEGALLY with the drive, energy, etc and bred to it. The breed has and is forever changed from the days of baiting and fighting however that shouldn't mean this breed should change completely. We should hold on to whats left of the dignity of this breed and put them to good use.

Any dog my family has owned and any dog i will ever own will have a purpose, even if its fun exercise i want to ensure that they feel accomplished at the end of the day. I love my dogs just as much as any passionate animal lover but i also believe in the old days, a dog has a purpose. Not just another fashion or social statement.


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## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

Off topic:even if dogmen somehow let bulldogs loose we would still be here at this point. They have been breeding bulldogs back in england prior to even coming over the pond. And when it was still a sport after they got off the boat they still breed bulldogs to keep the sport alive. A dog births 10 dogs then say 8 other families have a dog for various use. The reputation began before the 1770's....we just didnt know it untill certain politicans and supportive religious wacko's jammed it into the public press to get attention


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

They started to become more popular in the late 80's and the thugs did have some influence over the dogs and the way the sport is looked at as a whole. Even now when dog fighting is spoken about through these laughable documentaries. They take the worst POS dog fighter like Mickeal Vic and use that as an example for all dog fighter's and the sport as a whole. Dog's getting starved, drugged up, abused, electrocuted, necks snapped on the floor, I never saw an old dog match with any of those things happening during a match dog men were not even allowed to touch those dogs during a fight per the Cajun Rules. All I saw was some gentlemen in a box cheering their dog's on and some bulldog's happy to be in that box. Dog fighting was considered a gentleman's sport back then now it's a thugs sport I guess LOL. There are very few dog men left in the world their are plenty of dog fighter's there is a difference between the two. I would love to see a documentary interviewing Flyod and all the greats I bet you PETA or the HSUS won't ever release one of those!

It's funny but I don't even think people understand the work and money that went into raising and keeping fighting dogs. Dog men spent hours a day feeding, cleaning, and conditioning their animals for these event's. Traveling around the country a man and his dog. It's not all roses and holy water but it's what the dog's were bred for. I love my dog's history and I am damn proud of them and the creator's of these dog's for giving me what I have. I consider myself blessed to own such a breed but the price to pay for owning them is devastating.


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

00 S/C Lightning said:


> Off topic:even if dogmen somehow let bulldogs loose we would still be here at this point. They have been breeding bulldigs back in england prior to even coming over the pond. And when it was still a sport after they got off the boat they still breed bulldogs. The reputation began before the 1770's....we just didnt know it untill certain politicans and supportive religious wacko's jammed it into the public press to get attention


i think as the DA is likly to have become more pronounced as understanding of breeding grew and people found it easier to travel and share information


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

Sadie said:


> They started to become more popular in the late 80's and the thugs did have some influence over the dogs and the way the sport is looked at as a whole. Even now when dog fighting is spoken about through these laughable documentaries. They take the worst POS dog fighter like Mickeal Vic and use that as an example for all dog fighter's and the sport as a whole. Dog's getting starved, drugged up, abused, electrocuted, necks snapped on the floor, I never saw an old dog match with any of those things happening during a match dog men were not even allowed to touch those dogs during a fight per the Cajun Rules. All I saw was some gentlemen in a box cheering their dog's on. Dog fighting was considered a gentleman's sport back then now it's a thugs sport I guess LOL. There are very few dog men left in the world their are plenty of dog fighter's there is a difference between the two. I would love to see a documentary interviewing the Flyod and all the greats I bet you PETA or the HSUS won't release one of those!
> 
> It's funny but I don't even think people understand the work and money that went into raising and keeping fighting dogs. Dog men spent hours a day feeding, cleaning, and conditioning their animals for these event's. Traveling around the country a man and his dog. It's not all roses and holy water but it's what the dog's were bred for. I love my dog's history and I am damn proud of them and the creator's of these dog's for giving me what I have. I consider myself blessed to own such a breed but the price to pay for owning them is devastating.


Happens with alot of things they make illegal rahter than adding regulation! it continues , drags in the people attracted to the bad element and becomes far more dangerous that it could have been if just proper regulations had been added .


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Yeah your right me and a buddy were talking about what if they made dog fighting legal again. Instead of having these street thug wanna be's fighting dog's doing it the wrong way. You would have dog men teaching these youngster's the proper way to fight and condition an animal. The right way to breed and produce fine animals and cull what should be culled. Having regulations over a sport like that would most def cut down on the BS. For those serious about the game and wanting to really learn the dog's and the sport more care and time would go into it and these youngster's would have a better appreciation for the sport and the dogs as a whole.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

KMdogs said:


> Okay DMX didn't help but i can assure all of you that the image was destroyed LONG before his videos.
> 
> This breed hardly exists anymore, between people breeding turds that claim to be APBT, people breeding these "petbulls" and purposely mixing for profit, etc. I agree with Sadie 100% and i couldn't be happier that someone on this forum actually gets it!
> 
> ...


Well said Buddy!! I really like the way you think:goodpost: I am glad to have you here on this forum.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Well said Buddy!! I really like the way you think:goodpost: I am glad to have you here on this forum.


Thanks Sadie! Glad to be here! :roll:


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

honestly , if you cant give your dog a mile walk every day or something minimal like that you hade better find someone that can and give them your dog....
its cruel to a driven dog and you are setting up failure on multiple levels


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

motocross308 said:


> honestly , if you cant give your dog a mile walk every day or something minimal like that you hade better find someone that can and give them your dog....
> its cruel to a driven dog and you are setting up failure on multiple levels


A mile would even be cruel if thats all theyre getting.

Both mine get spring/flirt pole for about an hour (usually) a day and a good 3-5 miles of mixed walking/jogging a day.

I also given Kilie training 45 minutes a day and Myles an hour and a half a day given im working with him on the beginning stages of PP/guarding.

Days we cant give them all of the mentioned they go completely insane, fortunately thats rare but still.

Regardless not a thread for what we do with our dogs, sorry for off topic post!:thumbsup:


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Great replies everyone. I have really enjoyed reading them. I am somewhat of an in between the lines owner. I guess Helena is a pet bull. lol But I do respect the history of the breed and hope to own a real APBT one day. Helena is not as high drive as she used to be since she tore both of her acl's. But I had hoped to do weight pull with her before that. Now she is just happy to run in the backyard and get a few walks a week. But she is also well trained and spayed, doesn't cause anyone any problems. So I do not feel as if... I am doing the breed any damage by simply owning her as a pet. Actually as I type this she is sleeping next to me in my bed. haha 

I'd also like to add, that not all people who owned pit bulls in the day fought them. I remember reading in a Richard Stratton book, that Stratton was not a dog fighter, simply respected the breed and enjoyed owning them. And then you had the AKC Amstaff crowd... lol Which I am sure you could also blame for the problems. But in the day the Amstaff was still very close to the match dogs... when they first split I mean.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Well, Richard Stratton states several times in his books that pit bulls make for very suitable house pets and guard dogs, which may not be agreed upon by some on here but certainly shows the adaptability of this breed without disrepecting its heritage.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Shes Got Heart said:


> Great replies everyone. I have really enjoyed reading them. I am somewhat of an in between the lines owner. I guess Helena is a pet bull. lol But I do respect the history of the breed and hope to own a real APBT one day. Helena is not as high drive as she used to be since she tore both of her acl's. But I had hoped to do weight pull with her before that. Now she is just happy to run in the backyard and get a few walks a week. But she is also well trained and spayed, doesn't cause anyone any problems. So I do not feel as if... I am doing the breed any damage by simply owning her as a pet. Actually as I type this she is sleeping next to me in my bed. haha
> 
> I'd also like to add, that not all people who owned pit bulls in the day fought them. I remember reading in a Richard Stratton book, that Stratton was not a dog fighter, simply respected the breed and enjoyed owning them. And then you had the AKC Amstaff crowd... lol Which I am sure you could also blame for the problems. But in the day the Amstaff was still very close to the match dogs... when they first split I mean.


Megan I am just saying that these dog's were not designed to be pets they are extremely versatile but they are fighting dogs first and foremost. They were bred for sporting purposes. So I feel that dog men should have kept them in the hands of other dog men because they understand these dog's better than anyone else they also accept them for what they are and didn't try to take them in any other direction they stuck to breeding them for their original purpose. Now don't get me wrong I am not bashing all pet bull owner's but they are the reason why this breed is in trouble it's not the dog fighter's as some will try to claim .. Dog fighter's are hardly ever seen unless they get busted and even then they get thrown in jail and the dog's get put down most of the time. I believe the reason why pet bull owner's have caused so many issues with this breed come's from their inability to accept these dog's for what they are and their lack of knowledge on how to properly care for and maintain them. A lot of them don't even care to learn about the history of the breed they ignore it and shout out their hatred for dog fighting. They refuse to even read the manuals that these old timer's left us on how to take care of these dogs properly everything we need to know is in those books our dog's history their legacy and these pet bull/ animal activists are fighting to remove these books from the shelf. There are so many issues with pet bull owner's wanting to own and breed these dog's to be something they are not. I have a big problem with folks like that not all pet bull owner's are clueless but many of them are. I cringe at some of the things I read online and honestly I ask myself everyday why someone would want to own a fighting dog if they can't bare the thought of these dog's being fought. I don't get emotionally sick when I think about a working dog doing what's it's bred to do. And if you notice it's these same type of owner's who will go against the grain walking with their well trained and loving behaved pit bull proud to show them off to the public at a dog park off the lead and when their pit bull attacks and kill's another dog they are left completely speechless and their answer is well I don't understand we raised them better than this?!!!! These type of owner's don't seem to get it that genetics override all other things. If a pitbull want's to fight I don't care who trained it or raised it .. That bulldog is going to fight! And shame on you for not being prepared or putting your dog in the situation to begin with. Dog men would never even dream of taking their bulldogs to a dog park LMAO!! There is nothing wrong with wanting to own a dog bred for fighting if you are going to care for it like it was a fighting dog. Even if my dog's have never seen a box I still care for them as if they are fighting dogs because I know how they were bred and what they were bred for. Someone who is diluted enough to believe they can raise or train DA out of these dog's does not deserve to own them period. Pet bull owner's who disregard these dog's genetics don't deserve to own these dogs. Don't ever forget what you own you can take the bulldog out the box but you can't remove the fight out of the bulldog.


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## paintedwildd (Mar 20, 2011)

:goodpost: I love reading what you've got to say Sadie. I may have been guilty of the pet bull owner way of thinking that you can take the fight out of the breed but I did take the time to join this forum and learn about the history of the breed I love. I respect what the dogmen did to create this breed, that you can't just undo generations of breeding and that what the thugs do with their dogs today is in no way comparable to the sport of the past. It's unfortunate that so many people do not understand this and simply don't want to know about their dog's history or just think that they can love it out of them. These are the people that have no place owning this breed but the dogmen would still eventually release them somehow. It just should have been reserved to responsible owners with more sense and knowledge. True lovers of the breed would've gone to any lengths to acquire one. Very few people are prepared to be responsible APBT owners.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

paintedwildd said:


> :goodpost: I love reading what you've got to say Sadie. I may have been guilty of the pet bull owner way of thinking that you can take the fight out of the breed but I did take the time to join this forum and learn about the history of the breed I love. I respect what the dogmen did to create this breed, that you can't just undo generations of breeding and that what the thugs do with their dogs today is in no way comparable to the sport of the past. It's unfortunate that so many people do not understand this and simply don't want to know about their dog's history or just think that they can love it out of them. These are the people that have no place owning this breed but the dogmen would still eventually release them somehow. It just should have been reserved to responsible owners with more sense and knowledge. True lovers of the breed would've gone to any lengths to acquire one. Very few people are prepared to be responsible APBT owners.


You are like many on this site, including myself, in regards to learning about the history and respecting the past. There are alot of people who approach the APBT in this manner, and then there are those who do not. That's life. Of course you have to be prepared to own this breed, that goes without saying. However, to be lumped into a category of people who do not deserve this breed because you enjoy ALL the dimensions of the APBT, and not focus solely on the fighting aspect, is an inaccurate judgement.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Sadie said:


> Someone who is diluted enough to believe they can raise or train DA out of these dog's does not deserve to own them period. Pet bull owner's who disregard these dog's genetics don't deserve to own these dogs. Don't ever forget what you own you can take the bulldog out the box but you can't remove the fight out of the bulldog.


:goodpost: Totally agree with this ^^^

I love reading your posts! You know your ish girl !! I respect your knowledge let alone the great dog men of the world. I have always known the main basics of this breed and respect them for what they are. Always have always will......That being said I'm glad I have my Am.bully and not a "game" bred. I just don't think a real game dog would be a good fit for me. Yes, you still have to be cautioned with the possibility of a bully becoming DA but you have to be a whole hell of alot more on your "game" with a game dog. Great read guys and gals :clap:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks guys I am very passionate about these dogs. I appreciate those who are open minded and at least listen to the message. Like I said there is nothing wrong with owning these dog's as pets now a days that is what most of them are due to laws changing as long as you treat and care for them like the gladiators they were bred to be. Ignoring their genetics is not going to undo years and years of selective breeding. Responsible APBT owner's must value, respect, and appreciate the fight in these dogs. I understand some may want to love it out of their dog's but it's unrealistic and dangerous to believe that your dog's genetics can be washed away with love and training. Your setting the dog up for failure in the end and your putting another bullet in the coffin for the breed. So thanks again guys for those who listened I am coming from a good place.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Great information and opinions given by all Now if we can only get this info to the right people, who probably aren't on this site to begin with, we will have accomplished something


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL I agree SF ... APBT owner's all need to be on the same page about this subject there is no other option when you own a breed like this.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Sadie said:


> LOL I agree SF ... APBT owner's all need to be on the same page about this subject there is no other option when you own a breed like this.


How dare you agree with me Tara Seriously, we all have (at least those that replied here) an interest in, and respect for, the APBT or we wouldn't be so adament with our opinions! Believe it or not, I'm not the biggest opponent to the fighting aspect of this breed and have stated awhile back that if you could guarantee a match of two WILLING dogs, close monitoring (vet on hand), and the best effort in assuring that no fatalities occur (which means that an impartial judge would have the authority to "throw in the towel" on a dog that was in grave danger DESPITE the owner's opinion), then I would rethink my position on the subject I know it's not far from how the rules were to begin with, but I also know that the welfare of the dog was an issue at times, and therein lies the rub for me. As always Tara, good stuff


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