# 2 dogs , one must go :(



## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

so I have Bailee and Kahlua both females both fixed Bailee is about 2 years old and Kahlua is a few months younger. they have gotten into a few fights and had to go to the vet once for stitches. the other times they were separated before anything major happened.

well my wife baby sits at home and we have a 3 month old son  YEAAAH US. 
but lately Bailee has been showing aggression. Kahlua is the bigger dominate of the two, but Bailee seems to think she should be. well she has started two fights recently with Kahlua. one of which I had to grab her back legs while my wife grabbed Kahluas and we separated the two dogs. they both went into their crates.

Today I get a call from my wife she's very emotional telling me the dogs got into another fight out in the backyard. she was putting them in the dog run Kahlua goes right in, but bailee wants nothing to do with it. so Danielle has her by the collar and she starts to Growl at Danielle and showing teeth. Kahlua comes out because the door was open and Bailee just goes into attack mode. Danielle grabbed the hose and starts beating both dogs until they separated. both dogs are fine now but this cann't go on any longer.

I need helping finding a home for Bailee. she might be good with a male dog, but I think another female is a bad idea for Bailee. I have tried calling the local shelters and no one seems to want a PitMix. she really is a good dog and I hate to get rid of her, but I can''t afford her getting hurt or hurting one of the children my wife watches

here are photos of the dogs Bailee is the light colored dog.
http://www.gopitbull.com/introduction-forum/14227-new-northern-arizona.html#post152595



















-=Jason=-

EDIT: I am located in Northern Arizona


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Never trust this breed not to fight. It's just in their nature. Crating and rotating sounds like a much more feasable task than rehoming the dog... JMO


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## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your situation. Have you thought about crating and rotating? Keeping the dogs separate at all times might be the best for now.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Instead of having to place the dog why don't you just crate and rotate. APBT or even APBT's mixes normally do not get along with other dogs in the home. especially since you have two females that is very common. Many of us that have dogs who do not get along crate and rotate instead of rehoming the dog. It is still not a guarantee that a male would do better with her. APBT's are DA and many times they fine with each other till they mature, then the fighting begins. The best thing to do is keep both your dogs but keep them separated at all time. Again many of us have to separate our dogs our they would kill each other, it just goes along with owing the breed.


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

I'll have to look into the crating and rotating thing and run it by my wife, but she's the one at one during the day looking after the dogs. 

I'd just feel bad keeping them separated  all the time


-=Jason=-


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Flomaster said:


> so I have Bailee and Kahlua both females both fixed Bailee is about 2 years old and Kahlua is a few months younger. they have gotten into a few fights and had to go to the vet once for stitches. the other times they were separated before anything major happened.
> 
> well my wife baby sits at home and we have a 3 month old son  YEAAAH US.
> but lately Bailee has been showing aggression. Kahlua is the bigger dominate of the two, but Bailee seems to think she should be. well she has started two fights recently with Kahlua. one of which I had to grab her back legs while my wife grabbed Kahluas and we separated the two dogs. they both went into their crates.
> ...


This is scary and sounds like the dog is unstable. Personally I would put the dog down myself because I cant stand a dog that acts this way to humans. You could do the crate and rotate but be careful with a dog that is showing these signs.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Flomaster said:


> I'd just feel bad keeping them separated  all the time
> 
> -=Jason=-


With pit bulls sometimes it is the only option. Some people have success keeping the dogs together I never have.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Don't feel bad that is what we have to do with this breed, you would feel worse if you have to put her down because you could not find another home for her. Build two dog runs and rotate who come inside during the day. At night you can crate one or both dogs, not hard at all it is better than the alternative, death......


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Don't feel bad that is what we have to do with this breed, you would feel worse if you have to put her down because you could not find another home for her. Build two dog runs and rotate who come inside during the day. At night you can crate one or both dogs, not hard at all it is better than the alternative, death......


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

I'd put the dog down for showing aggression. thats jmo though.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

whoa I missed the aggression part, now was the dog being HA? do you have issues with that dog growling at ppl or was she growling at the other dog? If you are having issues with Bailee being aggressive with your wife then I would put her down. You cannot give someone a dog who is HA since it could harm them, placing them is not an option.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> whoa I missed the aggression part, now was the dog being HA? do you have issues with that dog growling at ppl or was she growling at the other dog? If you are having issues with Bailee being aggressive with your wife then I would put her down. You cannot give someone a dog who is HA since it could harm them, placing them is not an option.


from what I read and understood she grabbed the dog and it growled at her (the human) I bolded it in my reply.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Yeah I saw that but sometimes ppl misunderstand a dogs intention. I am sure if the dog was being aggressive with the wife there has been other instances. If so, dirt nap. If not, and the wife was trying to put them in the same dog run, bailee could have been refusing to go into the run in fear of the other dog, that I could understand.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

giving somebody an agg. problem dog (I might add) can reflect back on you and can hold you responsible if the dog bites somebody. just thought i'd add that.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Yeah I saw that but sometimes ppl misunderstand a dogs intention. I am sure if the dog was being aggressive with the wife there has been other instances. If so, dirt nap. If not, and the wife was trying to put them in the same dog run, bailee could have been refusing to go into the run in fear of the other dog, that I could understand.


Im sure the dog runs are seperated (I hope). If the dogs are constantly fighting it wouldnt be smart to put them both in the same run.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> I'll have to look into the crating and rotating thing and run it by my wife, but she's the one at one during the day looking after the dogs.
> 
> I'd just feel bad keeping them separated  all the time
> 
> -=Jason=-


I crate and rotate. I also tether both dogs in the backyard now and i am like your wife. I stay home all day by myself and i am 6 weeks pregnant so If i can do it for the love of our girls you guys can too.

don't feel bad about keeping them apart becuase pits can really careless and they already established a growing dislike for eachother so I hope the rotate will work fr you...I also got was told a story of of a 6 dog household inwhich all dogs rotate and one dog is da so they keep her appart at all times. good luck


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I think the dog growled at the wife out of either redirection of wanting to get at the other dog... or refusal of wanting to go into the run with the other dog out of fear. I think this entire situation is sad. These dogs are under a lot of stress because they do not want to be around each other. This problem will only get worse if you continue to allow them around each other. If the dog has not made any growls or snaps at a person before this.. I would say it was due to a high stress situation and doesn't mean she is HA at all. 

I suggest crate and rotate... and if you rehome her she needs to be an ONLY dog.. My female has taken on 2 males bigger than her over toys and food. And I suggest finding a trainer or behaviorist. If this sounds like to much, find someone who does a rescue for the breed who has experience in dealing with dogs like this. And... don't get another dog until the other dies of old age. You will have to have a one dog house hold unless you do crate and rotate.

BTW I think she is a very good looking dog!


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Yeah I saw that but sometimes ppl misunderstand a dogs intention. I am sure if the dog was being aggressive with the wife there has been other instances. If so, dirt nap. If not, and the wife was trying to put them in the same dog run, bailee could have been refusing to go into the run in fear of the other dog, that I could understand.


Yep, it is def fear aggression, being forced in a run with a dog that had attacked her before. this is why she was refusing to go in..she was scared and the owner didnt even read the warning signs.........imo if the dog turned and snapped it would have sent in her own mind...a clear message to the handler that she didnt like it. And she had good reasons aswell because the pit just tossed herself on the mix who clearly was trying to avoid this dog all together. that fight could really have been avoided.


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

the dogs are together most of the time except at night when they are crated in the house. they get along good but do like to play very rough. every once in a while some thing will Trigger a fight and every time its Bailee acting out first. 

Bailee HATES the dog run and jumps over the 4'5" tall run to roam free in the backyard.so when Danielle wanted to put in the run she was resisting it and Growled at Danielle then picked a fight with Kahlua. Bailee has never just went agro on me or Danielle I think she just didn't want to go in the dog run

the dogs will often get into the same crate at night and fall asleep while we are watching tv. they do grrrr at each other for the bones or the dog beds, however we have 2 beds and 2 bones... 

if I have to keep them separated I guess that's what I have to do, its just easier for Danielle to let them both out at once to go potty or play outside. 

-=Jason=-


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

You have to keep them separate it is not fair to the dogs to keep fighting. No one ever said owning dogs is easy


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## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

What is a dog run?


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Crate and rotate life is never easy from what I hear! I have only one dog so I don't have to worry about it. You just need to keep them completely separated or one of the dogs is going to end up dead. And you need to get a breaking stick as well. Its used to wedge between their jaws to pry them open if one dog gets a hold on the other. Some pit bulls refuse to let go when they have a good hold... and I'm sure your wife is going to get hurt eventually trying to separate these dogs by herself.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> You have to keep them separate it is not fair to the dogs to keep fighting. No one ever said owning dogs is easy


Not to mention the trouble you can get into with the Human societies. Some are really gung ho to call someone a fighter and take the dogs.


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## HappyPuppy (Oct 11, 2007)

Flomaster said:


> I'll have to look into the crating and rotating thing and run it by my wife, but she's the one at one during the day looking after the dogs.
> 
> *I'd just feel bad keeping them separated  all the time*
> 
> -=Jason=-


You can't think like that - these are dogs and they don't need doggie friends, especially if there is fighting involved in the household.


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

Don't feel bad about keeping them separated. I'm sure they will like it more. Neither will have to worry about fighting with another dog.

If the girl keeps being aggressive towards your wife and this was not a one time incident she should be put to sleep. Like others said it is not safe to rehome a humane aggressive dog.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

the aggression may have been transferred because the dog wanted to fight.....pts for me


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

It sounds like they are putting the two dogs in an outside run together this is a bad idea if they are fghting. Crate and rotate is the best option. If you can not handle this life style then putting the dog down is the next best thing. It would be horrible to give the dog away and have it getting into a major fight and possibly kll someone elses dog or maime a person that was trying to break up a fight.



Might I add that this is a good example of why people should research before owning this breed.


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

Bailee is not HA, she just didn't want to go in the dog run. btw they are both in there now (all day from what i was just told)and doing just fine. its only every once in a while they get into it. with how much they spend together ( every waking moment) they do pretty good. 

IF we found some one who wanted her as an only dog what would the harm in that be? she has NEVER bit me or showed aggression to human except for grrring when Danielle had her by the collar and Kahlua just happened to be right there.

-=Jason=-


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> Bailee is not HA, she just didn't want to go in the dog run. btw they are both in there now (all day from what i was just told)and doing just fine. its only every once in a while they get into it. with how much they spend together ( every waking moment) they do pretty good.
> 
> IF we found some one who wanted her as an only dog what would the harm in that be? she has NEVER bit me or showed aggression to human except for grrring when Danielle had her by the collar and Kahlua just happened to be right there.
> 
> -=Jason=-


WOW you are still keep them together? I guess you have learned nothing from your experience. I really hope you do not end up with a dead dog or getting bit from breaking up a fight {sigh} There are some ppl who should never own this breed or a dog for that matter


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

The harm would be if the person that took didn't realize that Bailee is a fighter and the dog fought with another dog. There wasa person on here that re-homed a DA dog and that dog fought and died. Do you want that on your hands? Are you willing to do checks on the people that take your dog? Are going to screen people before taking the dog?


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## Pitlover0718 (Mar 23, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> Bailee is not HA, she just didn't want to go in the dog run. btw they are both in there now (all day from what i was just told)and doing just fine. its only every once in a while they get into it. with how much they spend together ( every waking moment) they do pretty good.
> 
> IF we found some one who wanted her as an only dog what would the harm in that be? she has NEVER bit me or showed aggression to human except for grrring when Danielle had her by the collar and Kahlua just happened to be right there.
> 
> -=Jason=-


You are getting good advice from people with experience with this breed. I do not understand why you are defending this dog. Just because they only have fights every now and again does not mean you should take the chance of leaving them together because it is more convenient for you and your wife. All it takes it one fight and you could have two seriously hurt dogs or worse.. a dead dog. If you truly care about your dogs, you would crate and rotate them at the very least.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

I know we're suppose to help people, but he obviously wants no help if he and his wife are still putting both dogs in the run. The true nature of what is ABOUT to happen has not BIT them in the face yet.

Flomaster I'm sure you think you have it under control but you don't. Unfortunately its owners like yourself that end up making it difficult for the rest of us owners who accept the breed or mixes we have for what they are and do what ever it takes to keep the environment safe for all the dogs. Its nerve wrecking to read that even after what you have stated you will put them in the same run together. You are playing Russian Roulette with those dogs lives or the lives of those children and your wife not enforcing separation. 
You are making light of the situation because they have not gone FULL on each other .... 
But even the strongest of MEN on this board have had a hard time separating dogs that have already zoned in. You remember you have two dogs that will try and finish what has already been started. 
I just hope those children are not around when it happens .......
I've known people who think like you and have come home to a dead dog or dogs!
I have a friend who thought it would be nice to leave her cat and dog loose cuz they always got along well , good bye kitty !
another came home to find her old apbt killed by her 2 yr old apbt ...... awww they got along ..... blah ....... you'll learn the hard way .....


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

performanceknls said:


> WOW you are still keep them together? I guess you have learned nothing from your experience. I really hope you do not end up with a dead dog or getting bit from breaking up a fight {sigh} There are some ppl who should never own this breed or a dog for that matter


lost cause


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

DueceAddicTed said:


> I know we're suppose to help people, but he obviously wants no help if he and his wife are still putting both dogs in the run. The true nature of what is ABOUT to happen has not BIT them in the face yet.
> 
> Flomaster I'm sure you think you have it under control but you don't. Unfortunately its owners like yourself that end up making it difficult for the rest of us owners who accept the breed or mixes we have for what they are and do what ever it takes to keep the environment safe for all the dogs. Its nerve wrecking to read that even after what you have stated you will put them in the same run together. You are playing Russian Roulette with those dogs lives or the lives of those children and your wife not enforcing separation.
> You are making light of the situation because they have not gone FULL on each other ....
> ...


:goodpost: I agree you can't trust them to be together any more. I have two adult males and they get along great never had a fight but I never leave them alone together. They eat in separate rooms and they're food bowls are never left down. It's really important they they are never left out alone either, best friends can turn in to enemies fast over a bone or toy. Here's my yard if I leave and they are both out one goes on each side of the fence. If you want to keep every involved safe then keep the dogs separated it will be better for your family and the dogs.


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

here is my dog run 

left side is 10' the right side is 21' and its 5' tall 

but yeah from now on we aren't letting the dogs be around each other.
one will be in the run and the other in the house in the crate. 

but if I were to find a home for bailee that would be great. and my wife just surprised me with a Bailee as a puppy and Kahlua we rescued from a life of Dog Fighting. she was going to be bought by a man who fights dogs. we weren't looking for another but just ended up with her. 


-=Jason=-

EDIT: I didn't know my wife put the dogs together in the run after the fight, I would have put them in the house in crates after that happened 
I just talked to her and expressed the advice from this thread about how the people know what they are talking about and just because it hasn't happened yet it can and will happen if we leave them together. 

so I am going to try and find a home for Bailee because if we can't do stuff together with both dogs for the safety of the dogs then we don't need to have 2 dogs.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

I hope you dont end up with a lawsuit.


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

Chinadog said:


> I hope you dont end up with a lawsuit.


for giving her to a good home that has no other dogs?

enlighten me please as I do not want a law suite

-=Jason=-


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> WOW you are still keep them together? I guess you have learned nothing from your experience. I really hope you do not end up with a dead dog or getting bit from breaking up a fight {sigh} There are some ppl who should never own this breed or a dog for that matter


Some how I missed this post. But wow just wow wishing death to one of my dogs or harm to me and coming from a mod non the less.

I think my membership here has ran its coarse.

-=jason=-


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Everyone here is just trying to help, and the reason I think most are against just rehoming is ....... well it effects the dog, not just the new owners. Imagine having a child and well, your child didn't get along with the other child...would you give one up? 

I would think it would be the same way with dogs, if you can crate rotate the dogs, then you can all live in peace. Giving a dog who has shown issues off aggression, then wouldn't you want to work with your dog, to find out the cause?


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> Some how I missed this post. But wow just wow wishing death to one of my dogs or harm to me and coming from a mod non the less.
> 
> I think my membership here has ran its coarse.
> 
> -=jason=-


OK I think every one is trying to say is re homing the dog at this point is not the best idea. Crating and rotating is not a bad life for your dogs. If they can't be together alone then so be it, it's not so bad. If they are taken some where together keep them both on leash and don't give them the chance. Also don't give them bones together, even if they both have one they might still fight. The main concern is that the dog showed aggression, so if you re home her she might bite some one, being out of her enviornment can make her more agitated or scared and a dog backed in to a corner will do what it has to to get out. I would crate and rotate and ask a trainer about evaluating the dog for HA.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Oops! my post should say "I really hope you do NOT end up with a dead dog or getting bit from breaking up a fight"
I would never wish harm to a dog or another person that is a typing error. I do still stand by my post. Everyone with experience has been telling you to keep them a part then you post that they are still in the same run. It doesn't seem like you learned anything from your mistakes.
So sorry my post was incorrect I meant to say NOT.


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## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

^^ I thought that was weird coming from you...

Anyway, it seems the OP doesn't really want help, it seems he came here looking for support on a decision he had already made. Obviously most here are against just giving a dog away instead of properly taking care of it.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Hey Lisa when I read it the first time I put not in it. I guess I read it wrong. I knew what you meant and I think that anyone here would have know too. No one here would wish death on a fellow member


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

We are going to keep the dogs separated and crated only having one out at a time. I do not want any more fights or anyone harmed. This is all new to us and my wife would just like to have one dog. I never thought about how bailee would act being re-homed. So for now its separation.

-=jason=-


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## Czar (Nov 11, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Instead of having to place the dog why don't you just crate and rotate. APBT or even APBT's mixes normally do not get along with other dogs in the home. especially since you have two females that is very common. Many of us that have dogs who do not get along crate and rotate instead of rehoming the dog. It is still not a guarantee that a male would do better with her. APBT's are DA and many times they fine with each other till they mature, then the fighting begins. The best thing to do is keep both your dogs but keep them separated at all time. Again many of us have to separate our dogs our they would kill each other, it just goes along with owing the breed.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


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## Czar (Nov 11, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> We are going to keep the dogs separated and crated only having one out at a time. I do not want any more fights or anyone harmed. This is all new to us and my wife would just like to have one dog. I never thought about how bailee would act being re-homed. So for now its separation.
> 
> -=jason=-


hope all goes well...but yes crating and roating is great..glad u joined and learned something to help save your dogs stick around and ask questions and read you'll learn a ton.. I sure have


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## megz (Jul 25, 2008)

Flomaster... good on you for understanding that you might be needing a home for your other dog. while you will feel bad and others out there will make you feel worse, your number one priority is the welfare of your dogs. 
if you feel comfortable with a crate and rotate routine, go with it!! But if in your heart you know that it would be better for you to be a single dog home, do the right thing and find your other girl a good home. 
there is no reason you should feel guilty for doing what you feel is right. you have a new baby and that responsibility is massive in itself, yes you should have realized that two pitbulls in the same home was going to be a challenge, but, live and learn. 
my recomendation... if you want to keep both dogs, work your butt off with training, you would be really surprised how far it can go, this is from my own experience. above all, listen to your heart, you will always know what is best...


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

from reading this thread i'd say Ignorance is a bliss
:hammer:

plain and simple, you got into the apbt. they are DA and are known to be DA if you cant handle that you have no right owning the breed. IMO, if you get rid of one you should get rid of the other and buy a golden or a pug, something to fit your families needs.
If you try rotation and you are lazy just get rid of your dogs BOTH of them cause HONESTLY I rotate my dogs and everyone is happy over here.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> for giving her to a good home that has no other dogs?
> 
> enlighten me please as I do not want a law suite
> 
> -=Jason=-


okay

have you not read anybodies post? People have been "enlightening" you through this entire thread.


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

kg420 said:


> :goodpost: I agree you can't trust them to be together any more. I have two adult males and they get along great never had a fight but I never leave them alone together. They eat in separate rooms and they're food bowls are never left down. It's really important they they are never left out alone either, best friends can turn in to enemies fast over a bone or toy. Here's my yard if I leave and they are both out one goes on each side of the fence. If you want to keep every involved safe then keep the dogs separated it will be better for your family and the dogs.


Not so sure I would trust them alone with only a what 4' chain link fence? Bougie would clear that in like seconds.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

CallieBum73 said:


> Not so sure I would trust them alone with only a what 4' chain link fence? Bougie would clear that in like seconds.


You cant see them but there's two trees with a run on the other side of the double sheds, and Marley can't jump that high any more. One of us is always home so they're not really out there much. They don't fight but I wouldn't want to chance it ya know.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

crate and rotate is very easy once you get the hang of it. I have 6 dogs and 2 need to be separated at all times. even with 4 kids they are well aware of what happens if they get near each other. And keep researching here! Break sticks, setups for the dogs and how to keep yourself safe. I have a few links from my vet I can send you if you want


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## Pitcrew (Jan 19, 2008)

Ok Lets cut to the chase. Do you want to keep both dogs? Yes or No?
If No, what are your plans for the dogs?
If Yes what are your plans?
Answer honestly please so you can get some good advice.
I own 7 DA APBTs and we do just fine.
Have you never thought about a chain set up for during the day and then rotate at night?
They are very safe in a fenced in yard.
I


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

kg420 said:


> They don't fight but I wouldn't want to chance it ya know.


It is totally possible to have 2 dogs that can get along with eachother. Live life and have fun. But the dogs personalities need to be just right and be a good match for you as a leader. avoid th triggers and be prepared


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

redog said:


> It is totally possible to have 2 dogs that can get along with eachother. Live life and have fun. But the dogs personalities need to be just right and be a good match for you as a leader. avoid th triggers and be prepared


I do every thing in my power to keep them friends like they are. They are not allowed to chew bones together, or eat in the same room. They do really good together I just would never leave them alone if I was gone. Marley is so old now if I came home and some thing happened to him I would blame my self for ever. I just want them to be safe.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

:clap: see!:clap::thumbsup:


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Sorry if this post comes off long winded.....

In a perfect world (to the average dog owner) all of our animals would get along, wether supervised or not. But this cannot be expected with a breed that was selectively bred to be the king of the pit, or the box, a dog who was bred to be relentless, tenacious and unwilling to give up until the task was complete. This is not just from fighting, but working dogs with high drives have this attitude as well. American Pitbull Terriers were culled out of breeding programs if they did not show gameness, or if they displayed any type of human aggression. So when pitbulls (slang term) are called aggressive, it is true that they may have tendencies to be aggressive towards other dogs (wether its food aggression, same sex aggression, territorial aggression, etc) but it was never intended in breeding practices for human aggressive traits to be bred into these dogs. They are family pets, and long for love from their human companions, but I can say that no APBT needs love from another dog. They don't need doggie companions because their history proves that they were the masters of their domain, and any opposition could be a potential threat to them. Their handlers were their best friends til the end, and even though game testing and fighting is illegal now, the aggression towards other animals should be expected. There are ways to deal with it with experienced trainers (learn to curb it to a certain extent, or control it, not to eliminate it) and there are ways like crating and rotating. On larger yards you will see dogs that are tethered separate from one another to avoid fights. These dogs are dangerous to one another if they are actually get into it full blown. It's a precaution that you may not like, but will keep your dogs safe, as well as your family (aggression is often redirected when trying to stop fights, etc) and you can leave for work with peace of mind that you will not come home to wounded or dead dogs. It's not an exaggeration, and it's not that we are trying to alienate you, but most people that don't take the necessary precautions end up suffering what they thought would never happen. Take dog parks for example, people take dogs there that have no business being there, and when an APBT is challenged by any other dog (it may not be the instigator) but they will finish the deed and you will more than likely be fined, lose your dog, and make headlines. The publicity that our dogs are a part of is hardly ever positive and it's a combination of ignorance, media portrayal and lack of research and learning the extra steps this breed needs from a responsible owner. Don't think that rehoming is your only option. I am sure you both love the dogs, and I would suggest that your wife and yourself spend a little more time leaning about the history and about these dogs as a whole. I have never witnessed a dog more loving of human families and more loyal, then the APBT. I am sure you all have witnessed that partly or as a whole, but you need to know what your dog needs from you to be happy and safe. They will not be mad or be upset when kept separated, it is in their nature to fight, and it's only keeping everyone safe and sound. Crating and rotating may take some getting used to, but I can assure you that it's the responsible thing to do. You can build bonds with one dog at a time this way as well, giving them your undivided attention. Another thing I would do is consult with a trainer and work on obedience and distraction training and basically be fully in control of your dogs at all times. Breaksticks are a Godsend when something does go wrong, and you should be able to use one if need be. If you take the necessary precautions, you may never have to use one, but it is a must in a multiple dog household. I hope you stay and do not take this as a bashing but as owners of the same breed you are sharing an experience that many of us have gone through and we are just trying to help you.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

I just want to add to my overly long post that most of us come here with little to no knowledge and are thankful of everyones advice we recieve on different subjects. We all make mistakes, we all do things that we shouldn't have... And those are all things we have to learn from. Hope you become an active member here bud... We need more owners to stick together


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Good posting Oz. 

And I wish the OP the best of luck with whichever decision he makes. It is no easy decision to rehome a pet.... but if you decide to rehome her.. I really hope that you make sure the person is very responsible... people are so hard to trust.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> Sorry if this post comes off long winded.....
> 
> In a perfect world (to the average dog owner) all of our animals would get along, wether supervised or not. But this cannot be expected with a breed that was selectively bred to be the king of the pit, or the box, a dog who was bred to be relentless, tenacious and unwilling to give up until the task was complete. This is not just from fighting, but working dogs with high drives have this attitude as well. American Pitbull Terriers were culled out of breeding programs if they did not show gameness, or if they displayed any type of human aggression. So when pitbulls (slang term) are called aggressive, it is true that they may have tendencies to be aggressive towards other dogs (wether its food aggression, same sex aggression, territorial aggression, etc) but it was never intended in breeding practices for human aggressive traits to be bred into these dogs. They are family pets, and long for love from their human companions, but I can say that no APBT needs love from another dog. They don't need doggie companions because their history proves that they were the masters of their domain, and any opposition could be a potential threat to them. Their handlers were their best friends til the end, and even though game testing and fighting is illegal now, the aggression towards other animals should be expected. There are ways to deal with it with experienced trainers (learn to curb it to a certain extent, or control it, not to eliminate it) and there are ways like crating and rotating. On larger yards you will see dogs that are tethered separate from one another to avoid fights. These dogs are dangerous to one another if they are actually get into it full blown. It's a precaution that you may not like, but will keep your dogs safe, as well as your family (aggression is often redirected when trying to stop fights, etc) and you can leave for work with peace of mind that you will not come home to wounded or dead dogs. It's not an exaggeration, and it's not that we are trying to alienate you, but most people that don't take the necessary precautions end up suffering what they thought would never happen. Take dog parks for example, people take dogs there that have no business being there, and when an APBT is challenged by any other dog (it may not be the instigator) but they will finish the deed and you will more than likely be fined, lose your dog, and make headlines. The publicity that our dogs are a part of is hardly ever positive and it's a combination of ignorance, media portrayal and lack of research and learning the extra steps this breed needs from a responsible owner. Don't think that rehoming is your only option. I am sure you both love the dogs, and I would suggest that your wife and yourself spend a little more time leaning about the history and about these dogs as a whole. I have never witnessed a dog more loving of human families and more loyal, then the APBT. I am sure you all have witnessed that partly or as a whole, but you need to know what your dog needs from you to be happy and safe. They will not be mad or be upset when kept separated, it is in their nature to fight, and it's only keeping everyone safe and sound. Crating and rotating may take some getting used to, but I can assure you that it's the responsible thing to do. You can build bonds with one dog at a time this way as well, giving them your undivided attention. Another thing I would do is consult with a trainer and work on obedience and distraction training and basically be fully in control of your dogs at all times. Breaksticks are a Godsend when something does go wrong, and you should be able to use one if need be. If you take the necessary precautions, you may never have to use one, but it is a must in a multiple dog household. I hope you stay and do not take this as a bashing but as owners of the same breed you are sharing an experience that many of us have gone through and we are just trying to help you.





StaffyDaddy said:


> I just want to add to my overly long post that most of us come here with little to no knowledge and are thankful of everyones advice we recieve on different subjects. We all make mistakes, we all do things that we shouldn't have... And those are all things we have to learn from. Hope you become an active member here bud... We need more owners to stick together


:goodpost::goodpost: I gotta spread more love before giving you more rep


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

I want to keep both dogs because they are both great dogs and listen and behave. so today Bailee had run of the backyard and Kahlua was in the run no problems at all. I don't see keeping them separated being a problem. last night after I got home and took them out of the dog run I fed them separately even though the bowls are on the complete opposite side my my kitchen. then they went into crates for the rest of the night. I let them out one by one to go potty before I went to bed.

I am going to look into a break stick just in case, but I don't foresee a problem if I keep them separated. no more car rides just hanging out in the back of the 4runner I'll have to figure out some type of fence for the car to keep one in the back seat and the other in the back of the 4runner. 

at night when they aren't crated they are just chillen on the doggy beds anyways so I don't see a problem keeping them in the crates. they like it in there and feel safe.

now if only I can keep bailee from digging up my grass. maybe get a chain or add on to my dog run so they are separated but both in a run. 

-=Jason=-


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

sweet. I wish you only the best and im sure everything will work out fine


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> I want to keep both dogs because they are both great dogs and listen and behave. so today Bailee had run of the backyard and Kahlua was in the run no problems at all. I don't see keeping them separated being a problem. last night after I got home and took them out of the dog run I fed them separately even though the bowls are on the complete opposite side my my kitchen. then they went into crates for the rest of the night. I let them out one by one to go potty before I went to bed.
> 
> I am going to look into a break stick just in case, but I don't foresee a problem if I keep them separated. no more car rides just hanging out in the back of the 4runner I'll have to figure out some type of fence for the car to keep one in the back seat and the other in the back of the 4runner.
> 
> ...


Good.It sounds like things may work out for you if you keep to it.I don't have hands on knowledge about what you're going through,as mine are not DA.But if they were I would do everything in my power to make sure they were both safe and happy.I'm sure you will have much happier and less stressful doggies now.Just keep at it!:clap:


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## gxkon (Jul 13, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> Never trust this breed not to fight. It's just in their nature. Crating and rotating sounds like a much more feasable task than rehoming the dog... JMO


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost: i got to do that with 3 dogs its not real hard and u can keep yer buddies


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

I'm glad every things working out.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Flomaster said:


> Bailee is not HA, she just didn't want to go in the dog run. btw they are both in there now (all day from what i was just told)and doing just fine. its only every once in a while they get into it. with how much they spend together ( every waking moment) they do pretty good.
> 
> IF we found some one who wanted her as an only dog what would the harm in that be? she has NEVER bit me or showed aggression to human except for grrring when Danielle had her by the collar and Kahlua just happened to be right there.
> 
> -=Jason=-


Sigh It doesnt matter if she was scared or being bullheaded this dog growled at your wife, a HUMAN. I dont understand why anyone would want to keep this dog. I mean here this should set off alarms in your head.

*but bailee wants nothing to do with it. so Danielle has her by the collar and she starts to Growl at Danielle and showing teeth.*

I dunno its our dog but She would have gone straight to be put down if she pulled that stuff with me.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

If the OP is understanding that risk then so be it, its a different case when he wanted to adopt her out knowing she did that.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

That growl could have been directed at the other dog. Bailee could have senced the other dog was going to attack and she didn't want to go in the pen. I would not say that Bailee is HA from what I read.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

If a dog is truly HA, it would display that without being provoked. When someone is handling dogs that already excited/riled up, or showing aggression towards another dog then it can easily be redirected. If the dog was truly HA, the man's wife probably would have suffered from a few bites. That's just my opinion though. I am with you when a dog truly shows HA, I would have it take the dirt nap. And this is not a snap at the OP's wife in any way, but when you don't know exactly how to handle a situation is when you can get bit.


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

Not to rain on anyone's parade here but hasn't the idea of a fence fight occurred to anyone? These dogs can & will fight through chain link fences & car partitions & the damage inflicted can be nasty. I keep my guys in kennels & learned real quick to keep the kennels FAR apart or have a piece of wood in between the kennels. I had to learn the hard way. I thought keeping them separated would be OK, but before I learned how to separate *properly,* I had one poor little male who almost had part of his lower lip torn off, he had his toe bitten completely off & he also had all his teeth on his bottom jaw from the premolars forward - to include his bottom cutters - pulled clean out, during fence fighting. And heaven forbid they decide to fence fight while you're driving! You may have a very serious accident!

Just some food for thought.

Be blessed & stay safe out there ...


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

ABK said:


> Not to rain on anyone's parade here but hasn't the idea of a fence fight occurred to anyone? These dogs can & will fight through chain link fences & car partitions & the damage inflicted can be nasty. I keep my guys in kennels & learned real quick to keep the kennels FAR apart or have a piece of wood in between the kennels. I had to learn the hard way. I thought keeping them separated would be OK, but before I learned how to separate *properly,* I had one poor little male who almost had part of his lower lip torn off, he had his toe bitten completely off & he also had all his teeth on his bottom jaw from the premolars forward - to include his bottom cutters - pulled clean out, during fence fighting. And heaven forbid they decide to fence fight while you're driving! You may have a very serious accident!
> 
> Just some food for thought.
> 
> Be blessed & stay safe out there ...


:goodpost::goodpost: Youre right if theyre determined enough they'll bite their way through that chain link. Good advice! Rep comin at ya


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

StaffyDaddy said:


> If a dog is truly HA, it would display that without being provoked. When someone is handling dogs that already excited/riled up, or showing aggression towards another dog then it can easily be redirected. If the dog was truly HA, the man's wife probably would have suffered from a few bites. That's just my opinion though. I am with you when a dog truly shows HA, I would have it take the dirt nap. And this is not a snap at the OP's wife in any way, but when you don't know exactly how to handle a situation is when you can get bit.


I see what you are saying and everyone needs to make their own decision but redirection is a big no no too. Think of a pit redirecting back in the day, could be really devastating. I hope all goes well.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

If I put my hands on my dog and he growled at me - that would be the end of my trust in that dog. It's a bluff and a sign of insecurity. Maybe acceptable in other breeds but not pit bulls.


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

Well Bailee didn't want to go outside today, she stayed in her crate. My wife no longer feels safe having bailee in our home. 



-=jason=-


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Flomaster said:


> Well Bailee didn't want to go outside today, she stayed in her crate. My wife no longer feels safe having bailee in our home.
> 
> -=jason=-


please do not place her. Have her put down


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## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

I'd have her put down before placing her. Whoever takes her might have problems with her and decide to put it in a shelter. 

IMO if it was my dog I could not give it to a stranger, I would at least try to give it to an adoption or rescue where they don't kill and try and adopt it..


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

How sad that this dog is going to be put down or rehomed because the owners did not do research about the breeds they wanted to own.

How does your wife feel unsafe? Because the dog growled at her or because she doesn't know how to keep the dogs separated? I do not think you have a dog problem as much as you have a ppl problem.

Put the dog down and I hope you learned your lesson about APBT's and other dogs.


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

gamer said:


> please do not place her. Have her put down


talked to the humane society and it looks like thats our option right now. mostly likely going to do it this Saturday  awww im gonna miss her.
they said they will do some testing with her to see how she acts. around eating, other dogs, people etc if she passes test they will keep her until they find a home for her, if she doesn't pass then she gets put down.

my wife just brought Bailee to my work, I wasn't in the market for a dog. and Kahlua was going to be used as a fighting dog so thats how we ended up with her.

neither dog did I set out to own thinking hrm.... I want to own a dog. it just happened. and well had to dogs gotten along im sure we wouldn't be having this problem. but when Bailee is laying down and the rug rat got near her and she Growled at him that scared Danielle.

-=Jason=-


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Flomaster said:


> talked to the humane society and it looks like thats our option right now. mostly likely going to do it this Saturday  awww im gonna miss her.
> 
> -=Jason=-


it is sad but atleast you are down to one dog. Stick around learn all you can and dont add any animals and you should live a long life with your dog!


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> but when Bailee is laying down and the rug rat got near her and she Growled at him that scared Danielle.


When you say the rug rat do you mean your child?If she growled at your child do not try to have her placed at all.Put her down!These dogs should not be showing any aggression at all towards anybody,let alone a child!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

See that is totally different put the dogs down. You had said several times that bailee is sweet and that was the first time the dog acted that way I guess it doesn't matter what happened in the past, the dog is going to be destroyed now I think it is justified.


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

My Belle has gotten kicked in the face by a 4 year old deliberately before and just went up and licked him in the face. If your baby is just crawling by and the dog is reacting, that is NOT cool. She should be put down. You can at least get her cremated and keep her ashes and you will always know she is with you. That's jmo, though.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

meganc66 said:


> My Belle has gotten kicked in the face by a 4 year old deliberately before and just went up and licked him in the face. If your baby is just crawling by and the dog is reacting, that is NOT cool. She should be put down. You can at least get her cremated and keep her ashes and you will always know she is with you. That's jmo, though.


Exactly!My 3 children constantly climb and ride mine.My dogs do nothing but lick and wag their tails.Or else they roll over to have the kids rub their belly.

Do not have the humane society try to place this dog in another home.How would you feel if the dog did get placed and you found out later that it harmed a child and you could have prevented it from happening.
I know it will hurt to have your dog put down.But you need to think about what's best for everybody. You don't want anything happening to your child,you shouldn't put anybody else's child at risk either.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

I agree that dog can not be re homed if she is showing aggression to people and little kids. It's a bad situation waiting to happen. I have a 2 year old son and he loves to climb on Dosia and pull him by the collar and snuggle under the blanket with him, but if I ever heard a growl that would be it. I would never want to put him at risk of getting hurt, also think of who might adopt the dog and if they have kids. I wouldn't want any kids to get hurt.


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

If the dog growled at a child it needs to be put down. What if it gets adopted out and gets near a child. That child can get bitten. That dog isn't safe to have around people. Just bring her in the shelter and let them know she is aggressive and you want her put to sleep. It's sad but it's the safest option.


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

the Rug Rat is one of my wife's kids she baby sits. our minds are made up Bailee is going to be put down . 

but I did try and put her in the dog run while kahlua was in the house in her crate so there was no one but me and Bailee out side and she didn't grr or growl at me, but just planted her feel and kept twist me up while I was holding her collar. 

this was a hard decision to make, but I know its the right one. better have her put down now before some thing bad happens 

-=Jason=-

EDIT: Kahlua on the other hand is totally fine with kids and us. her little rug rats climb on Kahlua and touch her and she just LOVES IT.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Glad you guys have made this decision , not just for your own children but the children your wife is responsible for, its not fair to them or their family to have to get a call one day that the dog bit them. 
Best of Luck in following thru, your doing the right thing ....


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

If you can't follow through with PTD....you can always pm me and we can go from there I know someone who would love to have her here in vegas. You live in Chino valley right? not that far from us either. call me crazy but she didn't bite anyone she growled and that can be worked with over time with the right family and setting.

I am sorry, but IMO and everyone will jump on me for saying this...but give her a chance! she may just not be a good match in your house hold but that doesnt mean she wouldnt make a good dog for someone else.

so either 

1.) pm me and we can work things out with getting her flown here

or

2.) take her to the spca and see if she can be rehomed


I believe until a dog actually ATTACKS someone that it is innocent (growling barking, biting, snapping) those are the only ways a dog can tell us what is up and to snuff a dog for what its languange is is like killing a human for slapping or yelling when frustrated, scared or deffencive.)

I can understand if the dog went after a child or followed it and growled or lunged then put it down.
might I add that my lab shepard mix was aggro and went after a few people but I worked on him, even got some good licks from his teeth myself when training him but you know what? after all said and done he turned around 100% and did wonderfully with me and he became one of the best dogs I ever owned.


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

RileyRoo said:


> If you can't follow through with PTD....you can always pm me and we can go from there I know someone who would love to have her here in vegas. You live in Chino valley right? not that far from us either


You know some one who would LOVE a humane aggressive dog? I hope they don't have kids.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

aimee235 said:


> You know some one who would LOVE a humane aggressive dog? I hope they don't have kids.


My aunt has no dogs or kids (if you care to know she likes women so she'd never have children) and she lives by herself so she would love to have that dog, she did pups on parol when she was in jail aswell and has some training history behind her. (juno was a lab she had in there that was ha and had some chewing issues and seperation anxiety) he has a good home now thanks to her training him and My other aunt actually just hired her to train her husky puppy last week aswell.


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

I think all human aggressive dogs should be PTD. There are many more non ha dogs that need good homes. I don't think any one can guarantee a dog will never get out or be around kids who may trigger an aggressive attack. Even someone who is experienced. There is always a slim chance and in my opinion it's not worth a humans life.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

aimee235 said:


> I think all human aggressive dogs should be PTD. There are many more non ha dogs that need good homes. I don't think any one can guarantee a dog will never get out or be around kids who may trigger an aggressive attack. Even someone who is experienced. There is always a slim chance and in my opinion it's not worth a humans life.


that is true but look at how many biters are out there and are still owned by their people who work with them and have had a great companion for years. Never just jump at one option..clearly this dog hasnot snapped or bitten anyone..it growled and that isnt enough to put down a dog. 
Riley growls, should I put her down? Peaches growls should I put her down too?? a growl is a threat to stay away or else I will bite! it is the dogs language the dogs way of saying how it feels.

I am suprised alot of the trainers on here didn't take the time to evaluate the dogs fear of going in the run and simply growling and saying STOP! how else is she supossed to express her anxiety about going in the run with the other dog?
and the dog is clearly showing a sign of high anxiety with how she is so deffensive in the house, she more then likely feels uncomfortable and scared and may just want to be left alone which is understanbale...everyone is acting like this dog flat out mauled a kid when all she did was say back off!

how was the dogs stance when this happened? was she sleeping and startled? did the kid hit her and it was missed? some dogs just don't care for kids...

was the dog laying, ears flat atop her skull? there is alot of body language that acompanies any type of dog with an aggressive or threatining situation.

Fear aggression
Alpha aggression
Dog aggression

Maybe he should get her evaluated before he puts her to sleep? I have seen people say this on the fourm and have NOT ONCE seen it suggested here.

The whole dog biting his owner thing I seen everyone say evaluate the dog and go from there..so what makes it any diffrent? the dog didnt bite like the other pit did.

in my eyes.............she deserves a fighting chance.

evaluation, rehoming (with a fam with no kids) it is possable to keep your dog in a safe situation away from children. that is my opinion but if the guy feels it safer to just put the dog down then he should...imo I would do everything first then PTS once she failed.

"sounds like the dog is expressing high anxiety with what has been going


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

RileyRoo said:


> that is true but look at how many biters are out there and are still owned by their people who work with them and have had a great companion for years. Never just jump at one option..clearly this dog hasnot snapped or bitten anyone..it growled and that isnt enough to put down a dog.
> *Riley growls, should I put her down? Peaches growls should I put her down too?? a growl is a threat to stay away or else I will bite! it is the dogs language the dogs way of saying how it feels.*
> 
> I am suprised alot of the trainers on here didn't take the time to evaluate the dogs fear of going in the run and simply growling and saying STOP! how else is she supossed to express her anxiety about going in the run with the other dog?
> ...


Actually if they are growling at a human I would say yes put them down. Fear aggression? Unacceptable to me. I am sorry if I am being insensitive but there is no way a pit woudl ever growl in this house and live to see the sun set.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Just want to add Pit bulls are under fire every bite knockes them closer to being banned not something I will risk.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

I wouldnt put a dog down for fear aggression or growling even if it were a pitbull....if a dog is scared its gonna bite no matter how great that dog is you put it in a situation where it is spooked and it will bite. like if a dog doesnt like something it will growl.

I am offering to atleast save a dog that MAYNOT need to be put down because we cannot evaluate the real situation the dog is in or see the body language of this dog while she is showing signs of a threat. I spoke to Mark about this dog and he seems to think the same thing....you cant put a dog down for growling if that was the case everyone would have put down their dogs, it is natural. again the dog never bit anyone so I am not classing this as HA unless the dog does bite then the dog is NOT aggressive towards humans you would know right away if that dog was, she would have ripped the kid apart if she wanted to but she growled instead saying get away from me.. a clear warning which is a good thing because ha dogs normally show more threatining gestures then just a mere growl. that is JMO


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

RileyRoo said:


> .you cant put a dog down for growling if that was the case everyone would have put down their dogs, it is natural.


Well i have soem dogs who went to the grave naturally that NEVER growled at people and they were in all kinds of situations heck I even had a guy kick one of my dogs, he just stood there looking at the guy wagging his tail, my hubby on the other hand showed his HA side lol. I dunno to each their own.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

An unexperienced owner, a dog with one screw loose already, and the current state of the breed is an accident waiting to happen and it will. A responsible dog lover would always do the right thing for the benefit of the breed. Can't afford any more BS.


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## Patch09 (Apr 23, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> Bailee is not HA, she just didn't want to go in the dog run. btw they are both in there now (all day from what i was just told)and doing just fine. its only every once in a while they get into it. with how much they spend together ( every waking moment) they do pretty good.
> 
> IF we found some one who wanted her as an only dog what would the harm in that be? she has NEVER bit me or showed aggression to human except for grrring when Danielle had her by the collar and Kahlua just happened to be right there.
> 
> -=Jason=-


they do pretty good is not the answer, and once it turned to the human side you have no choice, if patch even growled at one of my kids it would be lets out, although I can't ever imagine him doing it but you never know, some dogs just go crazy, I've see it before


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

RileyRoo said:


> that is true but look at how many biters are out there and are still owned by their people who work with them and have had a great companion for years. Never just jump at one option..clearly this dog hasnot snapped or bitten anyone..it growled and that isnt enough to put down a dog.
> Riley growls, should I put her down? Peaches growls should I put her down too?? a growl is a threat to stay away or else I will bite! it is the dogs language the dogs way of saying how it feels.
> 
> I am suprised alot of the trainers on here didn't take the time to evaluate the dogs fear of going in the run and simply growling and saying STOP! how else is she supossed to express her anxiety about going in the run with the other dog?
> ...


Ummm NO,NO,and NOOOOOOO! Why would you even want to risk this dog having the chance the bite somebody?Yeah it might not happen,but it could also happen.Why risk it?We are so close to having our dogs banned because the media makes them out to be some blood crazed baby killers who will attack anything.
So say this dog does bite someone.Well there's one more story to turn more people away from this breed and make them out to be monsters.
And your dogs growling are way different then this dog growling at a child for crawling by it.Like you said it was a warning to stay back or I will bite.A child crawling by it is NOT a justifiable reason to growl or bite.
That along with this being a rescued dog where you don't know it's past or background,it needs to be put to sleep.
Sorry but you can't save every dog.Why don't you try saving one that does not express HA in any form.


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

I agree with you RileyRoo! This is just absurb IMP.Looks like someone dosent want to take the time to correct behavior and now this dog has a death sentence.
Are they fixed? How much exercise does she get? Was she not properly socialized? 
This is just really sad! A potentially awesome dog losing her life because of a lazy owner....shame!


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

CallieBum73 said:


> I agree with you RileyRoo! This is just absurb IMP.Looks like someone dosent want to take the time to correct behavior and now this dog has a death sentence.
> Are they fixed? How much exercise does she get? Was she not properly socialized?
> This is just really sad! A potentially awesome dog losing her life because of a lazy owner....shame!


Or a potential BSL train wreck. I am sorry you can NOT take chances or make excuses for this behavior there are good pits dying every day in shelters that would never act this way. Why is this potential man biter more worthy of life than those guys?


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

gamer said:


> Or a potential BSL train wreck. I am sorry you can NOT take chances or make excuses for this behavior there are good pits dying every day in shelters that would never act this way. Why is this potential man biter more worthy of life than those guys?


This dog has not attacked or bitten anyone. A growl is a far cry from a bite. Dogs growl! Oh MY! A risk????? Not everything has been done for this dog that can be done. I think it is tragic and a classic case of a good dog now exhibiting bad behavior because of a bad dog owner...period. It deserves life as much as the next dog!


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

CallieBum73 said:


> This dog has not attacked or bitten anyone. A growl is a far cry from a bite. Dogs growl! Oh MY! A risk????? Not everything has been done for this dog that can be done. I think it is tragic and a classic case of a good dog now exhibiting bad behavior because of a bad dog owner...period. It deserves life as much as the next dog!


Yup a growl is not a bite your right a growl is a warning to say if yo dont stop I will bite. Same difference to me. Why waste time and energy on this dog? Why not spend time and energy on this dog? PBRC WebApp | Detail | Lil' Sister sorry but I dont think that a dog that growls at people should live while other dogs like the one above die everyday. :flush:


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

CallieBum73 said:


> I agree with you RileyRoo! This is just absurb IMP.Looks like someone dosent want to take the time to correct behavior and now this dog has a death sentence.
> Are they fixed? How much exercise does she get? Was she not properly socialized?
> This is just really sad! A potentially awesome dog losing her life because of a lazy owner....shame!


Thank you for agreeing, and I agree with you 100% here. a dog was set up to fail but again...can't blame first time owners they just didn't know and I feel that she could be trained and evaluated and given a fighting chance with life if someone would just open their eyes and see the dog didn't attack the child but rather told a clear warning to the child who had either startled the dog. we don't even know if some of these kids had hit her or messed with her in anyway and I surely cant see the dogs body language or posture since I can't physically see the dog. but from the sounds of it it sounded like the dog was forced to go in a place it didnt want and that is why it growled at the wife and the child could have woke the dog suddenly and the dogs initial reaction was to growl or the dog is just highly stressed out and would serve better in a knowledgable home which if she was taken to the spca she could find a matched home and get evaluated and the training she needs to be sucessful.

sorry I have a Heart of Gold..i didn't know it was a crime to try to save a life that is innocent right now.

it is NOT right to put any dog down for growling..they all do it


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

if a dog ever displayed HA I would have put the dog down. I HAVE put a dog down for HA but it wasnt her fault and she lived her life as a breeder in a kennel by the time I got to her she was to far gone, she was scared of anything in motion. So I humanly euthanized her to put her outta misery. HA is not acceptable in this breed and should not be taken lightly.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

Chinadog said:


> if a dog ever displayed HA I would have put the dog down. I HAVE put a dog down for HA but it wasnt her fault and she lived her life as a breeder in a kennel by the time I got to her she was to far gone, she was scared of anything in motion. So I humanly euthanized her to put her outta misery. HA is not acceptable in this breed and should not be taken lightly.


that is diffrent then a house dog that just growled didn't bite.
when someone walks in the house Peaches growls at them. even sits by them staring and growls. she never bit anyone and we would never put her down


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

Is Peaches a pit bull? I've never had a pit bull that growled at anyone who came in the house they all greeted people and were very happy as a pit bull should be. The only time they should growl at someone is if someone is displaying aggression towards their owner. I can't believe you would allow your dog to growl and stare at people aggressively. I think that is very irresponsible.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

RileyRoo said:


> Thank you for agreeing, and I agree with you 100% here. a dog was set up to fail but again...can't blame first time owners they just didn't know and I feel that she could be trained and evaluated and given a fighting chance with life if someone would just open their eyes and see the dog didn't attack the child but rather told a clear warning to the child who had either startled the dog. we don't even know if some of these kids had hit her or messed with her in anyway and I surely cant see the dogs body language or posture since I can't physically see the dog. but from the sounds of it it sounded like the dog was forced to go in a place it didnt want and that is why it growled at the wife and the child could have woke the dog suddenly and the dogs initial reaction was to growl or the dog is just highly stressed out and would serve better in a knowledgable home which if she was taken to the spca she could find a matched home and get evaluated and the training she needs to be sucessful.
> 
> sorry I have a Heart of Gold..i didn't know it was a crime to try to save a life that is innocent right now.
> 
> it is NOT right to put any dog down for growling..they all do it


No they do not all do it.My dog has NEVER once growled at my children or anyone else for that matter.She is full of wags and licks when they crawl on her,climb on her,startle her,woken her up,etc.What do you not understand about they're not supposed to be HA at all unless their owner is under attack like aimee235 said.Just because your dogs do it does not make it right.And I can't believe you let your dogs growl at people that come into your home.


aimee235 said:


> Is Peaches a pit bull? I've never had a pit bull that growled at anyone who came in the house they all greeted people and were very happy as a pit bull should be. The only time they should growl at someone is if someone is displaying aggression towards their owner. I can't believe you would allow your dog to growl and stare at people aggressively. I think that is very irresponsible.


:goodpost: Couldn't agree more


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

RileyRoo said:


> that is diffrent then a house dog that just growled didn't bite.
> when someone walks in the house Peaches growls at them. even sits by them staring and growls. she never bit anyone and we would never put her down


its just a matter of time I think. Well this is a dead horse but anyone who keeps a HA APBT is asking for trouble. It;s just not right


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

If china.. my housedog, EVER bit, nipped, so much as showed her teeth to me that would be her golden ticket to the bridge. I love that beast, and I would be broken if that had to be an option but I would do it for my familys sake and for the breeds, its a liability and risk I dont feel worth taking. if she bites at them im sure it would come to biting a stranger if she hasnt snapped at somebody already. HA is not acceptable.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

Peaches is a bully and she growls and is protective of the house so no I wouldn't consider her an american pitbull terrier. she also was never socialized as a pup so that is why she is the way she is and she hates new people, she isnt showing aggression but rather fear at first but after a moment she settles and is that persons bestfriend. (My boyfriends dog) all dogs are diffrent and NO it isnt irrisponsable, it is who she is and we trust her, she has never bit anyone nor will she ever. what you guys do to your pets is fine. we do what we do with ours. everyone is warned before they come in and Mark is ALWAYS there controlling his girl

and riley growls, she even bit my boyfriend several times when we were play fighting. I don't consider that HA but she was protecting me when she thought he was hurting me.
when ever she sees him messing with me she comes over and eyes him down as if watching to see if i am fine and she will continue until he leaves me alone or I tell her it is ok, then she wags her tail and goes and lays down. So would I put her down? HECK NO!!!!!!!!!!


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## ZeusAndCrew (Jan 22, 2010)

> I wouldnt put a dog down for fear aggression or growling even if it were a pitbull....if a dog is scared its gonna bite no matter how great that dog is you put it in a situation where it is spooked and it will bite. like if a dog doesnt like something it will growl./QUOTE]
> 
> I agree.
> 
> ...


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Chinadog said:


> If china.. my housedog, EVER bit, nipped, so much as showed her teeth to me that would be her golden ticket to the bridge. I love that beast, and I would be broken if that had to be an option but I would do it for my familys sake and for the breeds, its a liability and risk I dont feel worth taking. if she bites at them im sure it would come to biting a stranger if she hasnt snapped at somebody already. HA is not acceptable.


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

ZeusAndCrew said:


> > I wouldnt put a dog down for fear aggression or growling even if it were a pitbull....if a dog is scared its gonna bite no matter how great that dog is you put it in a situation where it is spooked and it will bite. like if a dog doesnt like something it will growl./QUOTE]
> >
> > I agree.
> >
> ...


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

dixieland said:


> No they do not all do it.My dog has NEVER once growled at my children or anyone else for that matter.She is full of wags and licks when they crawl on her,climb on her,startle her,woken her up,etc.What do you not understand about they're not supposed to be HA at all unless their owner is under attack like aimee235 said.Just because your dogs do it does not make it right.And I can't believe you let your dogs growl at people that come into your home.
> 
> :goodpost: Couldn't agree more


I agree. Growling, like buz said is a bluff and a sign of a cur. Unless someone is beating me down, I would expect Chino to welcome ANY person, stranger or friend. That is the true disposition of these dogs. My dog does not growl or nip, the only time he has put his teeth on me is when we have been playing rough, and if that is to happen he immediately stops because he knows his mouth made contact with me. Otherwise, you're playing with fire.

Don't you guys think with such a stigma this breed has, and all the real problems that these dogs face every day that refusing to give up a dog that is HA is a little selfish? I mean, you say in certain environments they might do this, they might do that, but i KNOW someone who kicks their dog (and I have almost called AC on this person, but have just dettached myself completely from them, and they live in another state) and his dog loves him and doesn't cower at the sign of him, nor does it fear another kick. So to say someone can actually act with cruelty and their dogs still loves them shows the true temperament, the dog may pick up on you being uneasy, but youre supposed to be a solid owner anyway, but they shouldnt growl or nip at ANYONE. No people. And some of you refuse to understand that concept, either that or just blatantly ignore it.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Yeah it only growled AT A BABY that was only crawling by it!But whatever,I am done with this conversation.Go ahead rehome the dog and hope that it never bites anybody,let alone a child.:hammer:


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## ZeusAndCrew (Jan 22, 2010)

> And some of you refuse to understand that concept, either that or just blatantly ignore it.


What I refuse to understand is cookie-cutter mentality. I'm not ignoring anything.
Dogs should be evaluated individually. 
You may think myself or others are being ignorant because we don't think like you do but I've got years of experience with dogs and I learned to get myself out of that cookie-cutter mindset. Once I did, I had much better luck working with my dogs as well as helping other people with theirs. I believe most dogs can correct bad behaviors with the right training. There is nothing wrong with giving a dog a chance to change its environment and try to correct the bad behavior.

Good grief, if people put down every dog that ever growled for any reason, there wouldn't be many dogs around now would there?


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

ZeusAndCrew said:


> What I refuse to understand is cookie-cutter mentality. I'm not ignoring anything.
> Dogs should be evaluated individually.
> You may think myself or others are being ignorant because we don't think like you do but I've got years of experience with dogs and I learned to get myself out of that cookie-cutter mindset. Once I did, I had much better luck working with my dogs as well as helping other people with theirs. I believe most dogs can correct bad behaviors with the right training. There is nothing wrong with giving a dog a chance to change its environment and try to correct the bad behavior.
> 
> Good grief, if people put down every dog that ever growled for any reason, there wouldn't be many dogs around now would there?


I am not saying dogs. I am saying APBT, we all know they are better than dogs  APBT should not act like this fear is not in them and if it is it needs to be put down. I dont care about the other breeds as they were not made to be human friendly at all costs like this breed was.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

dixieland said:


> Yeah it only growled AT A BABY that was only crawling by it!But whatever,I am done with this conversation.Go ahead rehome the dog and hope that it never bites anybody,let alone a child.:hammer:


This dog attacks morons unfortunately, either they think it is cool or make excuses for a piss poor dog.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

gamer said:


> I am not saying dogs. I am saying APBT, we all know they are better than dogs  APBT should not act like this fear is not in them and if it is it needs to be put down. *I dont care about the other breeds as they were not made to be human friendly at all costs like this breed was.*


Good way to put it. Short and sweet, you make me look like a babbling fool girl! LOL


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

StaffyDaddy said:


> Good way to put it. Short and sweet, you make me look like a babbling fool girl! LOL


I like to just get the point out, my fingers get tired otherwise :roll: Most think I am too blunt but what do I care  I say what needs to be said most of the time.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

gamer said:


> I like to just get the point out, my fingers get tired otherwise :roll: Most think I am too blunt but what do I care  I say what needs to be said most of the time.


Yeah earlier in the thread I had missed the part about growling at a baby and I just don't understand how you could value a pet over your child, I love my dog but anything that brings harm to blood just doesn't get much love at all in my house.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

I am sorry, we are talking about a mix here NOT an apbt. big diffrence. the dog is a hybrid and must be evaluated and since we don't know the other half (which is most likely lab) we must understand that as a mix the dog willnot act like a pure would nor would I call it a p!$$ poor dog for its heritage. that is just ignorant in its own... and as I can see from the poll the majority of dogs on here have been said to growl and would protect (which the apbt would never be a good guard dog) so again, if I am willing to adopt the dog and work with it or have it evaluated what effect would that have on anyone on here? it would be MY household not yours. MY issue, not yours. I am stating what I know is right and I would stick up for any dog no matter what breed it is. I prey to god that man has seen this thread and changed his mind giving her up to the spca would be the greatest gift he could give to her...a second chance at life and to be properly evalutated and adopted out to a matched family rather then put down for just growling a warning to leave me alone...sorry but dogs who are stressed out will growl and the dog had had some bad experiances it seems with getting attacked by the full pitbull so naturally the dog is going to feel anxious and growl and want to be left alone


also like to add that my aunt has a lab pit who growls at the kids when they mess with him and the PARENTS have tought the children boundaries with the dog and they have now owned him for 4 years and the dog has since stopped growling because the kids are no longer messing with him.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

ZeusAndCrew said:


> What I refuse to understand is cookie-cutter mentality. I'm not ignoring anything.
> Dogs should be evaluated individually.
> You may think myself or others are being ignorant because we don't think like you do but I've got years of experience with dogs and I learned to get myself out of that cookie-cutter mindset. Once I did, I had much better luck working with my dogs as well as helping other people with theirs. I believe most dogs can correct bad behaviors with the right training. There is nothing wrong with giving a dog a chance to change its environment and try to correct the bad behavior.
> 
> Good grief, if people put down every dog that ever growled for any reason, there wouldn't be many dogs around now would there?


You might call my mentality what you will, but I am not talking about all dogs. Nor am I saying that you specifically can't grip that idea. But if you think you can "train" HA, I would love to see an example.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

if the dog is stressed out by another dog, its no reason to redirect it at a human. Those two parts just don't equate.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

The APBT is a dog bred to possess a level of confidence and nerve that most human beings cannot even conceive or appreciate. An intolerant APBT is a great example of indiscriminate breeding and exactly the type of dog that will destroy this breed. Don't let your dog be the straw that breaks the camels back.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Calling him a mix will not matter whatsoever when and if it happens. But you should stress that fact as much as possible.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

RileyRoo said:


> I am sorry, we are talking about a mix here NOT an apbt. big diffrence. the dog is a hybrid and must be evaluated and since we don't know the other half (which is most likely lab) we must understand that as a mix the dog willnot act like a pure would nor would I call it a p!$$ poor dog for its heritage. that is just ignorant in its own...* and as I can see from the poll the majority of dogs on here have been said to growl and would protect (which the apbt would never be a good guard dog) so again,* *if I am willing to adopt the dog and work with it or have it evaluated what effect would that have on anyone on here? it would be MY household not yours. MY issue, not yours.* I am stating what I know is right and I would stick up for any dog no matter what breed it is. I prey to god that man has seen this thread and changed his mind giving her up to the spca would be the greatest gift he could give to her...a second chance at life and to be properly evalutated and adopted out to a matched family rather then put down for just growling a warning to leave me alone...sorry but dogs who are stressed out will growl and the dog had had some bad experiances it seems with getting attacked by the full pitbull so naturally the dog is going to feel anxious and growl and want to be left alone
> 
> also like to add that my aunt has a lab pit who growls at the kids when they mess with him and the PARENTS have tought the children boundaries with the dog and they have now owned him for 4 years and the dog has since stopped growling because the kids are no longer messing with him.


Just replying to the bolded. Whose problem is it? Everyone that owns this breed because if it mauls someone then it will be labeled a pit bull thus adding to our problem.

That poll is a joke honestly. Just shows people that it is ok to have an apbt that growls or snaps, gives people the excuse. Honestly if someone robbed my house or attacked me it is MY responsibility to protect me and mine not my pit bulls. Pit bulls are not weapons nor alarms. I have apbts because I like them not because I am afraid at night. If my dog reacted by attacking I would put it down there is no reason for him to act like that and how will I know when the next time he wil think if I am getting hurt or not. If a friend comes by and starts play hitting me I could not trust that the dog would not bite.

I am sorry but I tell everyone I knew that my dogs where APBT and would never bite it is not in their nature and I will darn see to it that none of my dogs do.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

gamer said:


> Just replying to the bolded. Whose problem is it? Everyone that owns this breed because if it mauls someone then it will be labeled a pit bull thus adding to our problem.
> 
> That poll is a joke honestly. Just shows people that it is ok to have an apbt that growls or snaps, gives people the excuse. Honestly if someone robbed my house or attacked me it is MY responsibility to protect me and mine not my pit bulls. Pit bulls are not weapons nor alarms. I have apbts because I like them not because I am afraid at night. If my dog reacted by attacking I would put it down there is no reason for him to act like that and how will I know when the next time he wil think if I am getting hurt or not. If a friend comes by and starts play hitting me I could not trust that the dog would not bite.
> 
> I am sorry but I tell everyone I knew that my dogs where APBT and would never bite it is not in their nature and I will darn see to it that none of my dogs do.


I have been asked why I got a pitbull.. For protection? And I guess it boils down to some stereotypes, they see me with a tall tee, some baggy jeans and tattoos and think that I want to improve my image with my dog. It can't be because I love the breed! LOL

I said "If a badman were running up in my house, they could probably easily steal my dog just by calling his name, but I would be the one to run up and jump them to take my dog back" lol


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

StaffyDaddy said:


> *I said "If a badman were running up in my house, they could probably easily steal my dog just by calling his name, but I would be the one to run up and jump them to take my dog back" lol*


:clap: yup that is why so many game bred apbts can be stolen lol they dont fall far from their roots.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

gamer said:


> :clap: yup that is why so many game bred apbts can be stolen lol they dont fall far from their roots.


Well I think my boy is anything but Game, but who knows, I wont ever. He's a softie, especially for little kids, he whines on lead when I don't approach a little kid, or when I make him sit and down while the kid asks me to pet him. I think when I am walking and the kids from the bus stops stop me and pet Chino, that is some of the best publicity me and my dog could get.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

StaffyDaddy said:


> Well I think my boy is anything but Game, but who knows, I wont ever. He's a softie, especially for little kids, he whines on lead when I don't approach a little kid, or when I make him sit and down while the kid asks me to pet him. I think when I am walking and the kids from the bus stops stop me and pet Chino, that is some of the best publicity me and my dog could get.


Well yours is a stable pit bull  a good pit bull is a good pit bull.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

gamer said:


> Well yours is a stable pit bull  a good pit bull is a good pit bull.


Yeah he used to have some issues, or so I thought (I could have sworn he had fear aggression) but he has always just been submissive to me, I was always the one that trained and reinforced, and usually the one who works him more, jaime has been walking him a bit more lately since my schedule sucks! But yeah as time goes by he loses a lot of the things that used to have me concerned. He's coming out of his shell so to say and he is very assertive!


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

I would be worried, are you sure you want to rehome a dog that has shown aggression towards a human. You are just giving your problem to someone else.
Putting her with a male dog will not work either. You have a dog that wants to be alpha, and what dog she is around does not matter truly.
I would seriously think about putting this dog down or crate and rotate like others have said. But if your wife or you cannot commit to crate and rotate then putting down would be the best thing.


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

The funniest thing about this thread is that the same peeps that are saying "put the dog down" are the first ones who say "I wonder what the person did to provoke the dog" when there is an attack thread. 
Saying this dog cant be a good dog in the right hands is crazy. This dog was not lunging, biting, snapping, or showing any other signs of real aggression. It was a freaking growl. Bougie growls at my mail man when he sees him walking down the road. Do I think that makes him HA???? NO!!!! This is just a lazy way out. Plain and simple! Man if vet offices wouldnt be busy if people put down every dog that growled! This is just insane to me.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

The media wont be saying its a mix when she gets ahold of a hand or one of the childrens face.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

CallieBum73 said:


> The funniest thing about this thread is that the same peeps that are saying "put the dog down" are the first ones who say "I wonder what the person did to provoke the dog" when there is an attack thread.
> Saying this dog cant be a good dog in the right hands is crazy. This dog was not lunging, biting, snapping, or showing any other signs of real aggression. It was a freaking growl. Bougie growls at my mail man when he sees him walking down the road. Do I think that makes him HA???? NO!!!! This is just a lazy way out. Plain and simple! Man if vet offices wouldnt be busy if people put down every dog that growled! This is just insane to me.


A growl is a warning. Bulldogs don't warn. Unstable, fearful, or aggressive dogs do. On top of that, the dog growled at a kid. A good pit bull doesn't see a lion as a threat, not to mention a child. No fear = no bluff= no growl = mental stability and a good pit bull. Pit bulls are famous for their tolerance of children. A bad example is a cull. Research...


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

CallieBum73 said:


> The funniest thing about this thread is that the same peeps that are saying "put the dog down" are the first ones who say "I wonder what the person did to provoke the dog" when there is an attack thread.
> Saying this dog cant be a good dog in the right hands is crazy. This dog was not lunging, biting, snapping, or showing any other signs of real aggression. It was a freaking growl. Bougie growls at my mail man when he sees him walking down the road. Do I think that makes him HA???? NO!!!! This is just a lazy way out. Plain and simple! Man if vet offices wouldnt be busy if people put down every dog that growled! This is just insane to me.


It is a different story when it growls at a stranger, but to growl and show teeth to the owner is another story.
We are talking about a dog that is showing aggression to its owner.
No matter how hyped up the dog gets it should not take it out on it's owner.
A dog like that can be dangerous. 
The dog needs to be evaluated if nothing else. 
Rehoming it in it's present state should not be done. You are just giving your problem to someone else. Unless you are rehoming it with someone who take on dogs like this.
I know first hand how hard it is to help an HA dog. It takes alot of commitment. A commitment most people find hard to do!


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

A commitment that you made when you got the dog to begin with.........just saying! If my dogs displayed undesirable behavior then I would take every step I possibly could to insure that it is corrected. Did this dog really just wake up one day and decide to start showing aggression....I doubt it. Im sure there were a hundred warning signs that were left ignored.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

CallieBum73 said:


> A commitment that you made when you got the dog to begin with.........just saying! If my dogs displayed undesirable behavior then I would take every step I possibly could to insure that it is corrected. Did this dog really just wake up one day and decide to start showing aggression....I doubt it. Im sure there were a hundred warning signs that were left ignored.


So would you still be dedicated to your commitment if you had a kid(s)?


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

I do have kids...4 girls. They know how to behave around dogs.... That is my responsibilty as a parent and a dog owner. 
Now would I have a baby crawling around in the floor in the face of a dog (of any breed)that is already showing signs of iffy behavior...heck no! And this kid was being baby sitted right??? So who is at fault there...the dog or the owner??? Its absurb!


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

buzhunter said:


> A growl is a warning. Bulldogs don't warn. Unstable, fearful, or aggressive dogs do. On top of that, the dog growled at a kid. A good pit bull doesn't see a lion as a threat, not to mention a child. No fear = no bluff= no growl = mental stability and a good pit bull. Pit bulls are famous for their tolerance of children. A bad example is a cull. Research...


So..if you take a good bred pitbull, dont properly train or socialize it, then throw it in a room full of kids and it dosent have the warm and fuzzies for excited kids pulling all over them, then it should get put down and called a cull?????? You get what you create..any breed any dog! Sorry, just the way I see it.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

As a matter of fact, I have boarded more than one dog with less than acceptable socialization in the same yard with my four kids. I wouldn't raise a dog around my family without socializing both sides but I'm keeping a 3 year old male right now who has lived with a single man his entire life with absolutely no training or socialization. His reaction to my kids has been nothing but typical from the first encounter. Granted, I've kept a fence between them for the most part for the safety of both sides and I've seen nothing less than what I would expect out of a solid dog. I'd never throw any dog in a room full of kids (that's the epitome of irresponsibility) but if he was to display behavior unbecoming a bulldog under my care, he'd be shot.


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

You know if I felt this dog was just a mean nasty dog and a lost cause I couldnt agree more with putting her down. I just dont feel that way Im sorry. From the very first post this guy was fishing for reasons to get rid of the dog, first it was D/A, then when crate and rotate was suggested, then it turned to posts of H/A. I just think the whole situation was fishy and I do feel for the dog. The owner dropped the ball here, not the dog. So a dog is dead and we are beating it.......


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> Bailee is not HA, she just didn't want to go in the dog run. btw they are both in there now (all day from what i was just told)and doing just fine. its only every once in a while they get into it. with how much they spend together ( every waking moment) they do pretty good.
> 
> -=Jason=-


'Nough said!!!


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

This dude had no clue from the beginning. I wouldn't take much stock in his interpretation of HA. He should have a clue by now though. Should...


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

Lets hope!


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

buzhunter said:


> This dude had no clue from the beginning. I wouldn't take much stock in his interpretation of HA. He should have a clue by now though. Should...


lol he is probably more confused because he came to a pit bull forum and people told him it was ok and she is not HA abd should be fine etc etc etc :clap:


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Yep. Some folks know not to drive after drinking, and they don't. Some believe a few drinks won't hurt, and they are they ones who kill innocent people on the roads. Draw a line and live by it. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

buzhunter said:


> Yep. Some folks know not to drive after drinking, and they don't. Some believe a few drinks won't hurt, and they are they ones who kill innocent people on the roads. Draw a line and live by it. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


:goodpost: :clap: :goodpost: :clap: :goodpost:


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

Flomaster said:


> Some how I missed this post. But wow just wow wishing death to one of my dogs or harm to me and coming from a mod non the less.
> 
> I think my membership here has ran its coarse.
> 
> -=jason=-


No, you have two dogs, one with DA towards your other dog. It is just surprising that you would still have them together.

You are kind of back in forth in your posting. One minute she needs to go and then one minute you are defending her actions. It is just hard to understand is all.

No one of here wishes death on anything....this is the last place you will ever find that.
A point is just trying to be made that that very thing could happen esp. with a dog who does not tolerate other dogs as much. DA is DA and you have a dog bred with it. It is a inherited trait. Some dogs have it way worse than others.
The dog was not bred to have HA issues, and is not a welcomed trait in this bred AT all.
Basically everyone is just saying that you need to make your decisions wisely when it comes to this dog.
It is your dog and alls we can do is give you advise. Some of it might not be what you want to hear. Alot of people on here know what they are talking about, years and years of knowledge on the breed. I know I would listen, they are not here to hinder you, but just try to give you help that YOU asked for.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

CallieBum73 said:


> So..if you take a good bred pitbull, dont properly train or socialize it, then throw it in a room full of kids and it dosent have the warm and fuzzies for excited kids pulling all over them, then it should get put down and called a cull?????? You get what you create..any breed any dog! Sorry, just the way I see it.


YES! If it does not greet or meet it isnt a "solid" pit bulls. If you want to compare lets say rescues take pit bulls that have had HORRIFIC abuse, burns, beat, fought and these people can take these dogs in Petsmart. Or how about the Vick dogs they remained on chains and were fought but yet a few of them became therapy dogs and are surrounded by unfamiliar hospital equipment.. THAT is a solid dog. This dog has an attitude. Nothing more. 

And if I get technical if one of my dogs whether I raised it or got it yesterday EVER growled at me... OR my kids...game over. That dog earned his golden ticket over the bridge. Period.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Chinadog said:


> YES! If it does not greet or meet it isnt a "solid" pit bulls. If you want to compare lets say rescues take pit bulls that have had HORRIFIC abuse, burns, beat, fought and these people can take these dogs in Petsmart. Or how about the Vick dogs they remained on chains and were fought but yet a few of them became therapy dogs and are surrounded by unfamiliar hospital equipment.. THAT is a solid dog. This dog has an attitude. Nothing more.
> 
> And if I get technical if one of my dogs whether I raised it or got it yesterday EVER growled at me... OR my kids...game over. That dog earned his golden ticket over the bridge. Period.


:goodpost: God I love real deal pit bull owners. This about sums it up.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Chinadog said:


> YES! If it does not greet or meet it isnt a "solid" pit bulls. If you want to compare lets say rescues take pit bulls that have had HORRIFIC abuse, burns, beat, fought and these people can take these dogs in Petsmart. Or how about the Vick dogs they remained on chains and were fought but yet a few of them became therapy dogs and are surrounded by unfamiliar hospital equipment.. THAT is a solid dog. This dog has an attitude. Nothing more.
> 
> And if I get technical if one of my dogs whether I raised it or got it yesterday EVER growled at me... OR my kids...game over. That dog earned his golden ticket over the bridge. Period.


I agree here. Dosia was rescued form some one who beat and chocked him, and has never once showed any sigh of HA at all. He is my sons best friend he doesn't growl at my family, people that come in to my house, and he only barks at the door once in a while. I do know the breeders now and I know he's 100% APBT. HA is not part of our breed and I too would say good bye to my boy if he was, I can't risk my 2 year old son or any one else's safety these are very powerful animals and it's too high a risk. If they can not be trained and are too high risk the best thing is PTS it's sad but it's for the best some times.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

to gamer. Thanks 

KG I would completely come unglued if I ever saw somebody choke an animal. Kudos for saving him.  

I have no tolerance for HA in this breed and neither should any other apbt owners and if you find it acceptable or find exceptions then maybe you should take a step back and review this breed. I see it as... This breed has NO room for mistakes and everytime somebody does something stupid it slaps us all on the hand. I would like to own this breed until I die and im sure the rest of you do too so why risk one faulty dog when there is the next one sitting at the shelter with a rock solid temperment. Its just not worth it.


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

So then all these folks who are rehabilitating dogs with less than stellar temperments should just hang it up............oh my


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

wow... yes. If a pit bull does not have a solid apbt temperment then yes! And I really dont know what your referring to a reputable rescue will not touch a HA pit with a 12ft pole. Thats just the way it is. If rescues are doing that what do you think a rescue would do with the dog of the OP?


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

Chinadog said:


> YES! If it does not greet or meet it isnt a "solid" pit bulls. If you want to compare lets say rescues take pit bulls that have had HORRIFIC abuse, burns, beat, fought and these people can take these dogs in Petsmart. Or how about the Vick dogs they remained on chains and were fought but yet a few of them became therapy dogs and are surrounded by unfamiliar hospital equipment.. THAT is a solid dog. This dog has an attitude. Nothing more.
> 
> And if I get technical if one of my dogs whether I raised it or got it yesterday EVER growled at me... OR my kids...game over. That dog earned his golden ticket over the bridge. Period.


I totally agree!!

To me this is a dog who wants to be on top of the totem pole with no one there to really show her any different!

HA dogs are hard to break! Sometimes something will work for awhile then boom all hell breaks loose. Thats when you have the problems, on the news, and another round gone to BSL!
If you want to keep the breed you love so much, esp. pit bulls, you cannot cross that line an to me an HA pit is crossing that line. These are not chihuahua's running around being cute, bitting at ankles! These are dogs that have extreme power and the guts to go all the way. 
Why would you have a dog also that you know/fear might turn on you? If it is growling or showing teeth at you it sure does not respect you. You are far from being that higher up. With this breed you need that respect, that pecking order.
This dog was basically telling his wife that I am about to bite(hear my growl, see my teeth) you because I do not want to go into the run.....plain and simple. Sugar coat it anyway you want to. Whether the other dog was there it does not matter. The aggression was not towards the other dog according to what he posted.


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## CallieBum73 (Aug 29, 2009)

Then thank the world for all the E-behavior evaluators on here. 
I just dont think I would recommend putting a dog to sleep without knowing all the facts. For all any of you knew the wifey just wanted to dog gone and exaggerated the story....think she should of been taken to a pro first before the axe. Oh well...whats another dead pit......


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Chinadog said:


> to gamer. Thanks
> 
> KG I would completely come unglued if I ever saw somebody choke an animal. Kudos for saving him.


I know poor little Dosia, we were very lucky to find the breeders and they were also horrified when we told them how we ended up with him. They were so glad we saved him and that we were nice people. They rewrote a contract saying that he is now owned by me so if his previous owner tried to steel him for me I would have proof from the breeders that he is MY dog. The guy actually chocked him until he passed out and was laying lifeless on the floor, my poor boy he was about 7 or 8 weeks old and 9 when I got him.


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

CallieBum73 said:


> Then thank the world for all the E-behavior evaluators on here.
> I just dont think I would recommend putting a dog to sleep without knowing all the facts. For all any of you knew the wifey just wanted to dog gone and exaggerated the story....think she should of been taken to a pro first before the axe. Oh well...whats another dead pit......


Well he posted on a public forum about his situation, and we gave him advice regarding his situation. If he lied or his wife said something different how is this forum supposed to know? And yea.. good riddens to another HA pit.. There are to many rows of "dead pits" walkin now that have AWESOME, rock solid temp.s why waste energy or time with one that is HA??? Why doom the adoptable pits for the one that is our future headlines?


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## Chinadog (Sep 14, 2009)

kg

how did you find out he was choking him? Did you report him? so sad.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

All I am going to say here is the guy got the wrong answers and he left...he hasnt been back now has he? with that said, we can argue about how we see things and really..Gamer and Chinadog have good points because really...I think about it and If a dog so much as stared at my child wrong that would be the end of its life and as MUCH as i love Riley.....If she bit my kid she'd be putdown.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Chinadog said:


> kg
> 
> how did you find out he was choking him? Did you report him? so sad.


The girl we got him from was this guys brother's girlfriend and she took him and then gave him to my B.F. when she told him the story he took him right away and brought him home to me. The breeders had all his info from the sale and they reported him as soon as they heard the story. It is so sad that people can treat defenseless animal this way. My b.f. wanted to go to the guys house and beat him down but they said not to cause he'd probly go to jail. I wish he could have though that guy deserves a serious beating.


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## PrairieMoonPits (Dec 16, 2009)

JMO.. But if the dog is HA and was professionally evaluated as so... Put her down sad but true... its a danger to your wife and your kid I love my dogs to death would die for them but if they showed HA in anyway... They need to be put down unfortunately they are too dangerous look what she did to your other dog... imagine her doing that to your wife... Sad but true.. tough love I'm sorry its hard dude but if everyone in your family can't be on top of the pecking order and she takes over.. its game over... again JMO..


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

CallieBum73 said:


> Then thank the world for all the E-behavior evaluators on here.
> I just dont think I would recommend putting a dog to sleep without knowing all the facts. For all any of you knew the wifey just wanted to dog gone and exaggerated the story....think she should of been taken to a pro first before the axe. Oh well...whats another dead pit......


I thought the same thing to, that maybe the wife just did not like or could not handle the dogs....which is another reason why people should think before they leap into getting a pit. Apparently she is scared of the dogs because she called her hubby crying. The dogs can sense that and WILL feed off of it. It is a sign of weakness to them and they tend to dominate the weak ones. Point 2, why would you have dogs you are afraid of?

Would you personally keep a dog that has growled at you or shown it's teeth to you?


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## Flomaster (May 25, 2009)

*UPDATE:1 DOG HOUSE HOLD*

WOW, this thread blew up since I logged on.

Bailee has been put down. we will never know if she WOULD have attacked but I feel good knowing that she didn't attack while we had her.

Kahlua is doing great she is happy dog now in the past month she has been the happiest i have seen her in I don't know how long. its easier having one dog in our house with the new baby and my wife growing baby sitting business from home. the new kids LOVE Kahlua and she loves them no growling, showing teeth, etc she just lays there and lets them play on her.

now my problem is keeping her off my 6' block wall she has learned to jump up and just post up there watching the people who walk by. she hasn't jumped over yet but I do not want her on the wall or to give her the opportunity to do so. I am thinking about buying some netting to put on the top of her dog run so she can't jump up on the wall..

good idea?


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Flomaster said:


> WOW, this thread blew up since I logged on.
> 
> Bailee has been put down. we will never know if she WOULD have attacked but I feel good knowing that she didn't attack while we had her.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you had to make that kind of decision.It's always hard.But I think you made the right one.Thank you for thinking about our dogs too and the future of this breed.

As far as the netting goes,I'm really not to sure.Would she be able to grab it and tear it with her teeth and get out anyways?
I'm trying to think if there's any other kind of material you could,but nothing is jumping out in my mind.I'll keep thinking on it and I'll let you know if I come up with anything.


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## gxkon (Jul 13, 2009)

try toping it with chickn wire or welded fence wire


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

yeah chicken wire sounds good and it's not expensive.


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## beccaboo (Dec 27, 2009)

how cute  like she is sayin- HELLO PEOPLES!!! hahaha. i am sad that u had to go thru all that trouble with a rescued pup but sometimes things like this just happen  u did the right thing. protect your family and the people that come into your house. sounds like your girl is much more at ease in her own home now. 1 dog homes are so much easier anyhow 

oh p.s. bailee is still in ur siggy  RIP Bailee


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

If the chicken wire or welded fencing isn't big enough for that large enclosure you can build a little Lean-To with metal flashing and have it meet right at the top of your wall line.


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