# Orijen Puppy not working for Arson



## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

So I just thought I would share my experience with Arson and his time spent on Orijen Puppy...

Arson has been on Orijen puppy since 10wks and is now going on 14wks...and it's just not working for us. He eats it fine, but maybe its too rich for his system? He simply cannot adjust. He has had fairly loose stool since about 10.5wks. I thought at some point he would get use to it, but so far that's not happening...

My plan was only to feed him the Orijen Puppy until the bag we had ran out. So as of yesterday he now eats raw along with the rest of the dogs...and seems to be happy about the switch (at least from the eating end!!) 

We will see if he "detoxes" any, but hopefully it will be an easy switch since raw is much easier to digest!


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Dosia couldn't handle it either when he was a pup. I have him on Chicken Soup dog food and raw now and he does great.


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

Orijen , IMO a fantastic kibble ( if not the best), but is a little too high in protein ( ithink it's like 38-40%), yet proper protein levels are always disputed. For dry food, I feel it's a bit much, I think *Howardperformancekennels* posted some great info involving the matter in a thread regarding high protein levels and exhaustion.

My girlfriend used to buy the *Orijen puppy* formula all the time and I dint like it. 
The adult is slightly lower in protein, and the kibbles are perfect size for food training, whereas the *Puppy* formula kiblles were too small and I found that both dogs would always get them stuck somewhere and cough kibbles out.

What raw are you going to start with? butcher bits or packaged?
I've been buying this recently.and my dogs love it.
I think it would be a good way to begin.
no bones, soft and made of lamb ( frm my research ungulates are best because they are primarily found in a dog/wolf's natural diet.)








I like Bravo because their meat is grass fed, hormone free ... let me just post this from the site:

* Our red meat products are hormone-free and grass-fed
* Our lamb and beef are imported from Australia and New Zealand
* Our poultry is antibiotic-free
* Our raw vegetables are Grade A fresh and washed prior to processing
* We never use preservatives, additives, or artificial ingredients or colors

I also put parsley in a jar and pour in warm/ht water, not boiling. basicaly *parsley tea*, parsley is super rich in nutrients, hers another fantastic site you might enjoy:

Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Parsley, raw

..hit the homepage and search all foods, it's absolutely invaluable.

..remember ungulates, ungulates, ungulates, poultry, ungulates, ungulates, fish, ungulates ungulates... you get the idea

Ungulate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

geisthexe is the most knowledged in this forum on this matter.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Bravo and Primal are extremely expensive. I don't get why use them and not just natural raw? I've had to grab a Bravo or 2 but sheesh the cost for one simple log is ridiculous. 
Theres nothing wrong with starting a pup that young on raw if done right.
Since I've been doing raw all dogs that come through here start @ 6-8 weeks.
Honestly everyone has their own way of doing their raw.


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

DueceAddicTed said:


> Bravo and Primal are extremely expensive. I don't get why use them and not just natural raw? I've had to grab a Bravo or 2 but sheesh the cost for one simple log is ridiculous.
> Theres nothing wrong with starting a pup that young on raw if done right.
> Since I've been doing raw all dogs that come through here start @ 6-8 weeks.
> Honestly everyone has their own way of doing their raw.


i mostly do str8 raw, no question, i buy the logs to food train ( cut them in pieces ) , but i dont want to suggest a nice hard ham bone for a dog thats just getting used to it. its very expensive, true, and one log doesnt last long, if you are going to make it your primary source of feeding you will be spending $50 a week easy on a dog, but i feel its a great starter.

Nina , now at 5 - 6 months gets anything from meaty bones, to organs, etc. But i dont have anything worked out with any butchers, so i buy from a pet store and pay big money if not from a butcher shop that i prefer thats out of the way ( upstate). I'm weird about where my meat comes from, that's all. i dont want any meat from an animal that was abused or stressed out, that negative energy then goes into my dog. ( i know i sound weird )

Their ( Bravo!) lamb comes from Australia and new Zealand farms that are pretty humane and feed good stuff to their livestock. 
Clean water and good food is the most important thing in life, everything else is miniscule in comparison.

It's only for a few more months at the most, I could take it for now. but i love my Bravo logs, neatly packaged, easy to serve, and comes from happy livestock, dont need to defrost it for too long and can easily fit it in any container or wrap it because of its simple shape... but once again, it's not the majority of their diet.

also, keep in mind, serving a RAW diet doesnt mean trying to get the diet as close to what a wild wolf would eat. wolves in the wild live a shorter life span and are known to get pancreatis as well as damage their insides with some of the rough stuff that they eat. i eat raw more often now as well, that doesnt mean im going to go out into the woods to pick berries and mushrooms and eat them because my caveman ancestors did. Im going to eat something similar that still has the nutrients but prepared in a way so they risk of bacteria and parasites are lower, in other words, RAW, but with a modern understanding of the medical benefits and risks.

Sydney has obviously done her research, but many people who decide to go RAW think it means feeding chicken bones to a dog that was raised on kibble it's whole life. why not start on something safe like a bravo log and learn as you go? true money is a factor, I would imagine Sydney to have already looked into the cost factor of going raw anyway, her dogs seem to get all the proper care and nutrition from the looks of it, ( they are actually some of the best Ive seen here).

i hear you though, i almost finished a 2 lb log today and it cost me about $8

*today's meal ( 2/3 log done for the 2 dogs and some nice meaty bones to chew on for the next few days, love these bones, meaty yet dont pull off easily, the bone doesnt break off or splinter and could keep Nina busy for HOURS!!)*








photo might not be available for a few minutes


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Why don't you try the farmers markets? Their meats come from upstate NY perhaps you can strike a deal with one of those farmers who raise their own live stock, grass fed & crud free. I thought about them a few weeks back and just thought about them now so I'm actually looking through their farmers list to see where the ones that sell meat put /set up shop on what days. You never know. And no the negative energy part is not weird. I know what you mean.


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

DueceAddicTed said:


> Why don't you try the farmers markets? Their meats come from upstate NY perhaps you can strike a deal with one of those farmers who raise their own live stock, grass fed & crud free. I thought about them a few weeks back and just thought about them now so I'm actually looking through their farmers list to see where the ones that sell meat put /set up shop on what days. You never know. And no the negative energy part is not weird. I know what you mean.


WILL CHECK IT OUT AND TELL YOU WHAT I FIND, ( MY CAPS IS ON ) .. im heading overseas for anywhere between 3-6 months so, it would be temporary, or i would have found and sruck up a great deal with an organic farm by now, which is one of many reasons theyve been on raw, i wont be able to find good quality dog food, or any dog food for that matter where im headed ( Middle East, Russia, maybe Poland), but you can always find livestock and veggies , so i wanted to get them on it before i go, but the main reason being optimum health.


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

I have fed raw in the past for about a year and a half...I had some issues that made it difficult to do for a while so that was when I switched back to kibble, even though it wasn't my first choice. I also had an issue with the excessively high protein content of the Orijen Puppy, not for the overheating factor, but more for the difficulty for the dog to process.

We switched the girls back to raw about the same time we were getting Arson, and we had planned to switch him once the bag of food we had ran out. During that time he never adjusted to the Orijen, so I just decided to take him off even though we still had a couple days left of kibble.

Mostly we feed a lot of chicken...backs (40# is $15) Leg Quarters (.59/lb) Livers (1.50 container) 
Beef heart ($2-$4)
Beef Livers ($1-$2)
Pork ribs (on sale from $5 for 5lbs to $2 for $5 lbs)
Sometimes we get whole rabbits from a friend for free
Some of my ground meat I got a local pet store to start carrying...it's processed locally
Blue Ridge Beef It is very inexpensive for what you get... it comes out to about $1/lb and it is sold in 2.5lb and 5lb bags. I like to get their green tripe, and natural mix.

Mostly I keep an eye out at Food Lion and Wal-Mart for super sales on weird not so commonly eaten meats...tongues and whatnot...we also just bought a meat grinder and started grinding some of our own meats.


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

Sydney said:


> I have fed raw in the past for about a year and a half...I had some issues that made it difficult to do for a while so that was when I switched back to kibble, even though it wasn't my first choice. I also had an issue with the excessively high protein content of the Orijen Puppy, not for the overheating factor, but more for the difficulty for the dog to process.
> 
> We switched the girls back to raw about the same time we were getting Arson, and we had planned to switch him once the bag of food we had ran out. During that time he never adjusted to the Orijen, so I just decided to take him off even though we still had a couple days left of kibble.
> 
> ...


that sounds like a nice balanced diet, good work. raw can be difficult at times, the other night Nina was vomiting all night, i wasnt sure if it was the meat from the ham bone, it could have been anything though, eventually she threw up the rubbery piece thats at the end of the bone ( a piece of it) and soon ater that it stopped. Today she did a quick regurtitate outside ( it was white) no biggie, i got her the hma bone again... i have to see if that's what did it. This time everything is ok. its a whole lot of just trial and error. as you probably already know.

she could get just as sick from something she nibbles on outside or anything else, but im learning as i go. i didnt automatically dismiss it as the ham bone, it honestly could have been anything that made her throw up, and i will never know, good chance a vet would not know either ( she was fine the next day).

beliveve me, kibble is a whole lot easier, less work , but in my opinion, raw means less vet visits and healthier dog.

Orijen is definitely next to best, i just wish their protein levels werent so high, for various reasons.


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

YES! FINALLY! We have good consitency poop...is that a weird thing to be excited about? 

Sydney used to throw up everytime I gave her anything pork related with bone(pigs feet, pork necks, etc) so I eventually stopped giving her pork with bone...

Yes it is alot of trial and error, but I think it's worth it.


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

Sydney said:


> YES! FINALLY! We have good consitency poop...is that a weird thing to be excited about?
> 
> Sydney used to throw up everytime I gave her anything pork related with bone(pigs feet, pork necks, etc) so I eventually stopped giving her pork with bone...
> 
> Yes it is alot of trial and error, but I think it's worth it.


i am not sure if its weird, or even good, is it? does it define balance of some sort?

oooh, do you mean as in the full transition has been made? Im still novice in many areas.

im glad you told me about the pork and bone problems youve had , i will give Nina one more bone, and if i have a problem again - no more pork and bone, i will switch over to lamb etc ( like we all agreed , trial and error)
.... see i love this forum, these are the things you cant find on the net.

keep us updated.

thanks sydney

PS i will look into the meat grinder, that sounds good, I will throw some parsley in there... yummy


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Duece has the same problem with pork I've fed it 3x n sure enough 3x of vomiting n severe case of the back end water falls ... all 3 were from different places & one was a 2lb bravo log lol so never again this was when we were playing with his meats during his time off turkey & chicken since I use absolutely no kibble ...


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

DueceAddicTed said:


> Duece has the same problem with pork I've fed it 3x n sure enough 3x of vomiting n severe case of the back end water falls ... all 3 were from different places & one was a 2lb bravo log lol so never again this was when we were playing with his meats during his time off turkey & chicken since I use absolutely no kibble ...


maybe our dogs are Jewish?


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

ctfu!! awesome pic u made me spit my coffee u arse lolll ...


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

DueceAddicTed said:


> ctfu!! awesome pic u made me spit my coffee u arse lolll ...


i knew you would laugh out loud at that, im on a roll today

http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/25345-pics-my-crew.html#post295617


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