# New pup what do you guys think



## GinandJuicepits.com (Dec 29, 2010)

hey guys i just got a new pup he's the first pick off of a king lion grandson and comet daughter His dad weighed in at 109 at a year interested to know what you all think

























He is the 1st pick male from my Girl kaya's littermate this is my girl


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

cute pup , you have pics of the parents? I like king lion .


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## GinandJuicepits.com (Dec 29, 2010)

*you ask and you shall recieve*

these are the parents Sylar is the male he is out of Wizard and Havana from elmarielkennels.com He is a King lion Grandson he weighed in at 109 at his 1 year checkup










Ariel is the female she is out of Comet of Xtreme Bully and Gidget from ironmanpits


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## Silence (Dec 30, 2010)

Beautiful dogs.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

I think they look cool, I also think you should change the name to Gin and Juice Bullies


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

SECD said:


> I think they look cool, I also think you should change the name to Gin and Juice Bullies


I thought the same thing! only a policeman would call it a pit after he shoots it. I love them big and lookin right for their size. these are some beautiful dogs, Im loving your pick pup do you have a name yet?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

i like the parents very nice looking dogs .


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## GinandJuicepits.com (Dec 29, 2010)

His names Kato im not trying to ruffle feathers i just simply do not understand this whole bully thing i have papers that go back 8 generations i dont see how people dont consider these dogs pitbulls just because they're bigger than that what apbt started out as my dog has drive and is athletic as any dog iv ever seen. Humans evolved there were not 7'6 people walking around with jesus does that mean now we should find a different name to classify Yao Ming? I would love for someone to clarify this for me


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

I was just sayin, didnt mean to offend. Kato is a great name


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Cute bullies :3


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## DarkMoon (Nov 26, 2009)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> His names Kato im not trying to ruffle feathers i just simply do not understand this whole bully thing i have papers that go back 8 generations i dont see how people dont consider these dogs pitbulls just because they're bigger than that what apbt started out as my dog has drive and is athletic as any dog iv ever seen. Humans evolved there were not 7'6 people walking around with jesus does that mean now we should find a different name to classify Yao Ming? I would love for someone to clarify this for me


Ok, I'll bite.

Since you brought up Evolution, here it goes.

Humans evolved from Chimps right? Even though we are over 99% the same DNA wise, we are not Chimps right?

Bullies are their own breed, they are so far from the breed standards now, they can not be described as Pit Bulls. They have a different purpose far from even the APBT's they came from and those we have now, they have a different look. Yes they came from the breed, and most can still be registered as APBT's but they aren't really APBT any longer. They are now AM Bullies.

People calling Am Bullies APBT's is a lot of the reason why people can't tell a real APBT from a line up. It's GREAT to be in line with the history of the breed, but it is time to start calling 80lb + dogs what they really are, Bullies. Nothing is wrong with owning a good AM Bully dog, I don't understand why people still hide from it.

On a different note, nice looking dogs


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

What Darkmoon said. Would you call pit bulls "staffordshire bull terriers"? That's where they came from, after all. Of course you wouldn't. They're now two distinct breeds. It's the same reason that Amstaffs aren't pit bulls. They've been bred seperately for different purposes for too long.

Check out the Bullies 101 section and hit up Lone Star for more info if you need it. The more bully owners and more importantly, breeders that call their dogs bullies and not apbts the better for everybody.

Edit: Forgot to mention you do have a nice looking pup.


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## GinandJuicepits.com (Dec 29, 2010)

i understand what you guys are saying and i appreciate the feedback


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

He is a good lookin bully and both parents are nice lookin as well. Thanks for sharing


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

Evolution? You cant be serious.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Parents look great and that pup is very nice looking!


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Cute pup. King Lion grandson= Am Bully. That is Edge blood and Edge is bully and that is why they are not considered pit bulls. You have an American Bully and there is nothing wrong with that so you should call him what he is  I really like your pup's parents too.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> His names Kato im not trying to ruffle feathers i just simply do not understand this whole bully thing i have papers that go back 8 generations i dont see how people dont consider these dogs pitbulls just because they're bigger than that what apbt started out as my dog has drive and is athletic as any dog iv ever seen. Humans evolved there were not 7'6 people walking around with jesus does that mean now we should find a different name to classify Yao Ming? I would love for someone to clarify this for me


All dog's are nice looking Bullies. But there is a difference between an American Bully and an APBT and most of us here can agree on that. The APBT an established breed with a set standard/purpose bred for hundreds of years through selective breeding didn't miraculously go from being a 40-60 pound animal to a 100 lb animal. The dogs you own now are a result of mixing breeds to create a desired look (type of dog) yes APBT blood was used in the creation of the American Bully in the beginning but it was not the only breed used. Every papered bully has paper's going back 8+ generations and they all say they are APBT's but that doesn't make is true. Do your homework and get the facts on these dogs and you will see that what you own is not an APBT. And until you accept that and call them/register them as American Bullies with the ABKC you will continue to add to the confusion and problems that surround these dogs. Again if you don't know the truth I can't fault you but once you learn the truth you need to step up and acknowledge your dogs for what they are or this controversy can never end. Stick around and do some reading you will come to realize the truth very quickly.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

DarkMoon said:


> Ok, I'll bite.
> 
> Since you brought up Evolution, here it goes.
> 
> Humans evolved from Chimps right? Even though we are over 99% the same DNA wise, we are not Chimps right?


 There are Old World monkeys or Cercopithecoidea which are baboons, mandrills, macaques, rhesus monkeys, and Barbary ape. Their nostrils are close together and directed downward like in humans. Their tails are not prehensile. 



Hominoidea or anthropoid apes - tail-less primates 
Includes gibbons, orangutans, chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, and humans
*Modern species evolved from same ancestral stock that produced humans*
*DNA evidence indicates divergence from human line 5-7 million years ago*
*DNA of chimpanzees and humans is 98.4% similar*
Similarities in the proteins hemoglobin and myoglobin indicate that the chimpanzee is our closest relative 
Hylobatidae - Gibbons - The most primitive branch of the tail-less apes 
Pongidae - Orangutans, chimpanzees, bonobos, and gorillas
Hominidae - Humans


Just FYI :woof:

 Y'all know I am full of useless info sorry. Have to put that Historical Geology degree to work somehow.  OK back on topic.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

:rofl: Lauren.

@ OP. No one cares that your dogs are Am Bully and are not APBT. They are some really nice looking bullies and could do a lot to transform the majority of the breeding program of bullies from something mocked into something viable.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

CRAP I had this whole post made and I erased it! 
ok here I go again.....
this is what your website says

Welcome to Gin and Juice Pits! We are a blue pitbull kennel located in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. We breed XL blue nose American Pit Bull Terriers with champion bloodlines which consist mainly of OG Greyline, Watchdog, Royal Blue Generation, and Powerlines. We strive to produce blue pitbull puppies that are conformationally correct with heavy bone, blocky heads, broad chests, muscular backsides, and shredded muscles, but most importantly, we breed for temperament. All of our blue nose pitbull puppies are socialized from a very young age. They are great with all other dogs, love all people, and are great with children of all ages. Our blue pitbulls possess so many great qualities, they can be used in many ways. They are extremely loyal, loving, intelligent, and athletic just to name a few. This allows our blue pit bulls to make for great guard dogs, hard workers, and most of all great family dogs and best friends. Our blue nose pitbull puppies are mostly blue, blue fawn, champagne, and brindle.

I feel you are confused on what type of dog you have and before you start breeding you need to understand what you are doing. You spelled Pit Bull as pitbull, pitbull is a slang term for a pit type mixed breed a Pit Bull refers to an American Pit Bull Terrier. There is not such thing as an XL Pit Bull you are breeding Bullies and need to call them as such. There is not such thing as a Blue Nose pit bull, it is not a type of dog just a color. Only Back Yard Breeders refer to their dogs as Blue nose dogs, you have dog that are blue but that is it, it is not a bloodline or anything special.
You say you have Ch bloodlines but no ware in the Pedigrees you posted is their any type of Ch, PR is only a dog who was registered with the UKC for more than 3 generations. Most ppl know OG Greyline, Watchdog, Royal Blue Generation, and Powerlines are all bully dogs NOT APBT's. Have you every read the APBT standard? you say, We strive to produce blue pitbull puppies that are conformationally correct with heavy bone, blocky heads, broad chests, muscular backsides, and shredded muscles, but that is not the standard for APBT's they are a med size dog not overdone. You say you breed for temperament but yet you say they are good guard dogs, That is not correct temperaments for an APBT they are not good guard dogs. A guardian trait can show up from time to time but these dogs are not guardians.

I have a problem with ppl like yourself who know very little about the breed but yet you have a website and are breeding. You are everything that we on this board try to educate against. Now some ppl might think I am being unfair since you are new but you already are breeding and have a website so you put yourself out there. You should know what type of dog your breeding and you should know correct temperament and structure since you are advertising that you do off your website. My suggestion is to shut down your website and learn about what you have before you try breeding. It only fools the uneducated not ppl in this breed. If you want to breed Bullies then breed Bullies but even they can see a BYB when they look at a site like yours. Your dogs are not quite Bully standard and not APBT's so you need to find out where you fit in with your dogs. Here is the Bully kennel club The American Bully Registry
Here is the ADBA website American Dog Breeders Association
Can you see the difference? the paper work you have that says APBT is wrong but you can research that and about paper hanging and why the Bully started their own registry. You have to do the research yourself now.

Here are APBT's
Here is an APBT who happens to be blue he is 45lbs and 19" tall. he almost has his ADBA Ch









Here is a pitterstaff (APBT x AST mix) she also almost has her ADBA CH and is 40lbs and 18" tall









Here is another one of my APBT's 35lbs and 18" tall









Do you see the difference? Here is a dog owned by Cheryl Caragan and he has his ADBA Ch already and is a bigger dog but you see the difference between him and your dogs?
This is Spike he is about50-55lbs









Here is your site
GIN AND JUICE PITS BLUE PITBULLS FOR SALE PITBULL PUPPIES PITBULL KENNELS PITBULL PUPPY FOR SALE


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## texasprideprettypitty (Jan 31, 2011)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> His names Kato im not trying to ruffle feathers i just simply do not understand this whole bully thing i have papers that go back 8 generations i dont see how people dont consider these dogs pitbulls just because they're bigger than that what apbt started out as my dog has drive and is athletic as any dog iv ever seen. Humans evolved there were not 7'6 people walking around with jesus does that mean now we should find a different name to classify Yao Ming? I would love for someone to clarify this for me


i totally understand your response to the bully/pit situation...all of the pits ive owned have been tall big boned over 80 lb gorgeous animals..they are APBT and just because they have the potential to be huge isnt a bad thing...my baby girl is over 80 lbs now and just turned 7 months, her momma is a 100 lb solid blue and her daddy is a 110 lb blue brindle...i personally prefer the look of the tall just because i like the look. i personally believe whether they are tall or short they all have the amazing characteristics of the APBT

AND YOUR NEW BABY IS GORGEOUS!!! looks jst like his daddy!! CONGRATS!!!


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Except when they're that tall and big-boned, they don't have the amazing characteristics of the APBT.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Sure the agility of the apbt deminishes with size, but I dont want a 100 pound dog jumping over my fence and getting loose either. I think they're cool and I dont understand the bully/apbt thing either but they are what they are


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

texasprideprettypitty said:


> i totally understand your response to the bully/pit situation...all of the pits ive owned have been tall big boned over 80 lb gorgeous animals..they are APBT and just because they have the potential to be huge isnt a bad thing...my baby girl is over 80 lbs now and just turned 7 months, her momma is a 100 lb solid blue and her daddy is a 110 lb blue brindle...i personally prefer the look of the tall just because i like the look. i personally believe whether they are tall or short they all have the amazing characteristics of the APBT
> 
> AND YOUR NEW BABY IS GORGEOUS!!! looks jst like his daddy!! CONGRATS!!!


There's just one problem .. Those dog's he owns are NOT APBT's !!! And APBT's are not 80+ lbs they don't typically get over 50-60 lbs unless they are just fat. And PIT is not even a breed I hate that word. If you prefer 80+ lb dogs than your don't prefer APBT's what you prefer is American Bullies. Lisa already posted some fine examples of what the APBT was intended to look like but just because I love bogart so much I am going to throw him up as well

APBT










APBT


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't mind bullies either. I think some of them are gorgeous. But when you have such visible differences in structure between APBTs and Bullies, I don't think it's right to lump them together.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> Do you see the difference? Here is a dog owned by Cheryl Caragan and he has his ADBA Ch already and is a bigger dog but you see the difference between him and your dogs?
> This is Spike he is about50-55lbs
> 
> 
> ...


Amazing dog:clap:


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

k8nkane said:


> I don't mind bullies either. I think some of them are gorgeous. But when you have such visible differences in structure between APBTs and Bullies, I don't think it's right to lump them together.


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## Silence (Dec 30, 2010)

You`re breeding unregistered dogs?

GIN AND JUICE PITS BLUE PITBULLS FOR SALE PITBULL PUPPIES PITBULL KENNELS PITBULL PUPPY FOR SALE


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

texasprideprettypitty said:


> i totally understand your response to the bully/pit situation...all of the pits ive owned have been tall big boned over 80 lb gorgeous animals..they are APBT and just because they have the potential to be huge isnt a bad thing...my baby girl is over 80 lbs now and just turned 7 months, her momma is a 100 lb solid blue and her daddy is a 110 lb blue brindle...i personally prefer the look of the tall just because i like the look. i personally believe whether they are tall or short they all have the amazing characteristics of the APBT
> 
> AND YOUR NEW BABY IS GORGEOUS!!! looks jst like his daddy!! CONGRATS!!!


You do realize you are just referring to the parents weight and colors don't you, which means nothing. 80 pounds is freakin huge for a 7 month old dog, even by bully standards. I highly doubt you have an APBT sweetie. Do you have a ped?


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> CRAP I had this whole post made and I erased it!
> ok here I go again.....
> this is what your website says
> 
> ...


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## GinandJuicepits.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Wow a lot of you people are a joke. No im not breeding unregistered dogs shes a direct king lion granddaughter the site just isn't finished our dogs do have amazing temperament but they also have drive and listen unbelievably so i feel they could be converted into a guard and so does the guy who trains them. Second ok you guys want me to refer to my dogs as bullies but most of the people inferring to buy my dogs aren't apbt Activists they have been around our dogs and have had their mind completely changed on the "Pit Bull" breed the average person doesn't know a bully from a apbt and I use Pit pitbull Pit Bull as a way for average people to be able to associate my kennel with the "type" of dogs we have I'm not asking for anyones blessing I am going to do as a please and i encourage you all to do the same if i choose to say im selling pitbulls mixed with kangaroos i can do that its the internet if anyone inquires il tell them whatever they would like to know and they are they can make they're own decision but my dogs sell them self rather bully or apbt it wont matter WHEN PEOPLE SEE ME DOGS IN THE PETSTORE AND GRAB THEY'RE CHILDREN ONLY TO REALIZE THEY ARE AS NICE AS ANY DOG ON THIS PLANET THOSE PEOPLE GO HOME WITH A DIFFERENT OUTLOOK ON PIT BULLS NOT BULLIES. SO FOR THAT YOUR WELCOME SINCE APBT ARE SO RARE NOW DAYS YOU SHOULD BE THANKING PEOPLE WHO HAVE "BULLIES" RAISED RIGHT BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY THESE BULLIES COME OFF AS A POSITIVE EXAMPLE OF A APBT IN 99% OF SOCIETIES EYES


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> Wow a lot of you people are a joke. No im not breeding unregistered dogs shes a direct king lion granddaughter the site just isn't finished our dogs do have amazing temperament but they also have drive and listen unbelievably so i feel they could be converted into a guard and so does the guy who trains them. Second ok you guys want me to refer to my dogs as bullies but most of the people inferring to buy my dogs aren't apbt Activists they have been around our dogs and have had their mind completely changed on the "Pit Bull" breed the average person doesn't know a bully from a apbt and I use Pit pitbull Pit Bull as a way for average people to be able to associate my kennel with the "type" of dogs we have I'm not asking for anyones blessing I am going to do as a please and i encourage you all to do the same if i choose to say im selling pitbulls mixed with kangaroos i can do that its the internet if anyone inquires il tell them whatever they would like to know and they are they can make they're own decision but my dogs sell them self rather bully or apbt it wont matter WHEN PEOPLE SEE ME DOGS IN THE PETSTORE AND GRAB THEY'RE CHILDREN ONLY TO REALIZE THEY ARE AS NICE AS ANY DOG ON THIS PLANET THOSE PEOPLE GO HOME WITH A DIFFERENT OUTLOOK ON PIT BULLS NOT BULLIES. SO FOR THAT YOUR WELCOME SINCE APBT ARE SO RARE NOW DAYS YOU SHOULD BE THANKING PEOPLE WHO HAVE "BULLIES" RAISED RIGHT BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY THESE BULLIES COME OFF AS A POSITIVE EXAMPLE OF A APBT IN 99% OF SOCIETIES EYES


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> Wow a lot of you people are a joke. No im not breeding unregistered dogs shes a direct king lion granddaughter the site just isn't finished our dogs do have amazing temperament but they also have drive and listen unbelievably so i feel they could be converted into a guard and so does the guy who trains them. Second ok you guys want me to refer to my dogs as bullies but most of the people inferring to buy my dogs aren't apbt Activists they have been around our dogs and have had their mind completely changed on the "Pit Bull" breed the average person doesn't know a bully from a apbt and I use Pit pitbull Pit Bull as a way for average people to be able to associate my kennel with the "type" of dogs we have I'm not asking for anyones blessing I am going to do as a please and i encourage you all to do the same if i choose to say im selling pitbulls mixed with kangaroos i can do that its the internet if anyone inquires il tell them whatever they would like to know and they are they can make they're own decision but my dogs sell them self rather bully or apbt it wont matter WHEN PEOPLE SEE ME DOGS IN THE PETSTORE AND GRAB THEY'RE CHILDREN ONLY TO REALIZE THEY ARE AS NICE AS ANY DOG ON THIS PLANET THOSE PEOPLE GO HOME WITH A DIFFERENT OUTLOOK ON PIT BULLS NOT BULLIES. SO FOR THAT YOUR WELCOME SINCE APBT ARE SO RARE NOW DAYS YOU SHOULD BE THANKING PEOPLE WHO HAVE "BULLIES" RAISED RIGHT BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY THESE BULLIES COME OFF AS A POSITIVE EXAMPLE OF A APBT IN 99% OF SOCIETIES EYES


You're right, you can do what you want, but just because you can do it don't make it right. It's false advertising.


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## crystalcountry (Dec 26, 2010)

removing post.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

... And you're the reason those people think your dog is an APBT. Because you TELL THEM IT IS. :hammer:


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

You don't even know what type of dog you have you said so yourself in the first page of this thread. Don't compare your dogs to my real APBT's that is what pisses APBT ppl off. Call them what they are and we would not be having this discussion!


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

you owe it to the world to inform them properly of what they're buying. This isnt a big bash fest, its educating the public. So many are learning and advancing the breed by doing so. Making a good name for themselves and their dogs. there is some good blood behind your dogs and you should be able to do good things with them. Dude if those were mine I would show them every weekend, prove they're great representatives and go from there.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

As if we couldnt smell this from the start. Hence the reason why i posted what i did before it was removed. Look at the name look at the attitude, can somebody say Peddler.

Just venting but this guy can sit here and say we have know idea ect yet if i call it how it is i get in trouble. Jump on the blue dog bandwagon and follow the fad, i guess you put chain collars round your dogs necks too?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

If you are so proud of your dog's why must you use the APBT name to market them to the world? If you were really proud of what you owned you wouldn't be breeding those dogs and passing them off as another breed. REAL TALK! That's like me passing my APBT's off as American Bulldogs. Give me a break I am proud of the breed I own I would never want to pass them off as anything else! You say you love your dog's and they are so awesome than represent them to the public as the American Bully because that is what they are!!!! Don't you have any pride?


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

redog said:


> you owe it to the world to inform them properly of what they're buying. This isnt a big bash fest, its educating the public. So many are learning and advancing the breed by doing so. Making a good name for themselves and their dogs. there is some good blood behind your dogs and you should be able to do good things with them. Dude if those were mine I would show them every weekend, prove they're great representatives and go from there.


I absolutely agree, Bossmandude! Great post!



Sadie said:


> If you are so proud of your dog's why must you use the APBT name to market them to the world? If you were really proud of what you owned you wouldn't be breeding those dogs and passing them off as another breed. REAL TALK! That's like me passing my APBT's off as American Bulldogs. Give me a break I am proud of the breed I own I would never want to pass them off as anything else! You say you love your dog's and they are so awesome than represent them to the public as the American Bully because that is what they are!!!! Don't you have any pride?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

He never answered my question he either has no clue what he has or is lying to the public. Where is the Ch's in yours dogs pedigree? Why do you say you breed to the standard if you are calling them APBT's? Your dogs do not fit the standard of UKC, or ABDA. Why are you calling them blue nose? Only BYB's use that term. people are smart look at all the bully kennels that are selling bullies people seem to find them just fine why can't you call your dogs bullies?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Maybe he thinks the PR's are CH's too LMAO!!!!!!!!!


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## Diggit (Jan 24, 2011)

gin and juice- pit bulls back in the day didnt come in blue. it would be like one in a million chance of a apbt coming out blue, and most dogmen would "cull" it. because the blue color is a defected black gene, AND also a lot of skin problems come along with it.
a new color just doesnt pop out like this consistantly.... just like a merle color pattern.

in the past 15 years people have got these "huge blue" dogs... how? paper hanging. 
they breed mastiff's, cane corsos, presa's and english bulldogs to get that "look" its been admitted.

pit bulls are not bred for looks but extreme athletics. so, if our getting a pit bull bred for looks it is not a pit bull.

people have admitted mixing breeds in, and have moved it to a "new breed" and i encourage everyone with a bully to call it how it is. 
I have seen a few times on the news "pit bull attack!" and they show the dog and it is no doubt a bully.
also I have heard of ABKC conformation judges getting bit...

and the list of genetic health problems is through the roof compared to the apbt.

I dont have nothing against people who love these dogs but make sure it comes with education. and here is your start of it, no need to get mad or anything, we are trying to help.

hell, way back i had a blue dog and had to learn the hard way too! his grandsire had hip dyspalcia.. and his uncle had hip dysplacia and elbow dysplacia so bad he couldnt jump on the couch or he would scream in pain.

here are some of my traditional apbt's.. notice the diff?

bunny, 35 lbs in condition... dont know her hieght never bothered myself to check.

notice how her skin is not hanging all over and saggy? you can see the muscle def, in all areas.

this dog can fall out of a 7 foot tree limb onto some rough rocks and get up like nothing happened and climb again.



















mase,.. hes a good example too. in shape 47



















dutch fat,... 50 lbs in shape 46










these dogs dont have the body of a mastiff.


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## Diggit (Jan 24, 2011)

how could a 109 lb dog be the same breed as my 35 lb dog?...


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## Silence (Dec 30, 2010)

Diggit said:


> how could a 109 lb dog be the same breed as my 35 lb dog?...


not to sound ignorant but...Same way the Poodle can weigh 6-9lbs up to 45-70 lbs. But it`s recognized that poodles come in 3 different sizes. the APBT does not vary like this.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Diggit said:


> gin and juice- pit bulls back in the day didnt come in blue. it would be like one in a million chance of a apbt coming out blue, and most dogmen would "cull" it. because the blue color is a defected black gene, AND also a lot of skin problems come along with it.
> a new color just doesnt pop out like this consistantly.... just like a merle color pattern.
> 
> in the past 15 years people have got these "huge blue" dogs... how? paper hanging.
> ...


Excellent post and awesome looking dogs. They're a credit to you.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

So silence are you saying that poodles have been crossed with mastiffs too?


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Silence said:


> not to sound ignorant but...Same way the Poodle can weigh 6-9lbs up to 45-70 lbs. But it`s recognized that poodles come in 3 different sizes. the APBT does not vary like this.


Standard poodles and miniature poodles are different breeds as far as I'm aware. Just like Dobermans and Min Pins.


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## Diggit (Jan 24, 2011)

Silence said:


> not to sound ignorant but...Same way the Poodle can weigh 6-9lbs up to 45-70 lbs. But it`s recognized that poodles come in 3 different sizes. the APBT does not vary like this.


lol. the big apbt and the "small" apbt share nothing alike, they are pretty much bred for the oppsite of eachother.

the poodle? they all look the same no matter the size, and bred for the same thing. 
thats the differance.


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## Chloesmygirl (Jan 31, 2011)

While I do understand some of the angst going on here in this thread, have you ever heard of the saying "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?"

You have to "ease" people into this differentiation between Ambullies and APBT. If you want to blame, blame the registries that are allowing certificates that say "APBT".


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

Registries really only know what people tell them. I think they expect some level of honesty from the people using their services.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Chloesmygirl said:


> While I do understand some of the angst going on here in this thread, have you ever heard of the saying "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?"
> 
> You have to "ease" people into this differentiation between Ambullies and APBT. If you want to blame, blame the registries that are allowing certificates that say "APBT".


While that may be true the OP refuses to accept that he has Am Bullies; furthermore, anyone who calls them self a "breeder" and has a "kennel web site" should not have to be eased into a differentiation between the two breeds. If they believe they are at "that step" they should know backwards and forwards WTH they are breeding. That is unacceptable in my opinion. Heck, my three year old even knows the difference between the two.


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## Chloesmygirl (Jan 31, 2011)

While I do understand what you are saying, I am the queen of controversial subjects and I have just found out with personal experience through the years how I will most likely get people to see a different view from which they have been taught. You have most likely raised your 3 year old to know the difference. While, yes, registries can only go by what info breeders give them, you have to understand that many people out there only go by what is actually written on their paperwork. They really don't think that the reality is different. That is all I am saying. Not trying to argue here, just trying to figure out a better way to educate people is all.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> While that may be true the OP refuses to accept that he has Am Bullies; furthermore, anyone who calls them self a "breeder" and has a "kennel web site" should not have to be eased into a differentiation between the two breeds. If they believe they are at "that step" they should know backwards and forwards WTH they are breeding. That is unacceptable in my opinion. Heck, my three year old even knows the difference between the two.


:goodpost::goodpost:

Hit the nail on the head.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Chloesmygirl said:


> While I do understand what you are saying, I am the queen of controversial subjects and I have just found out with personal experience through the years how I will most likely get people to see a different view from which they have been taught. You have most likely raised your 3 year old to know the difference. While, yes, registries can only go by what info breeders give them, you have to understand that many people out there only go by what is actually written on their paperwork. They really don't think that the reality is different. That is all I am saying. Not trying to argue here, just trying to figure out a better way to educate people is all.


I think we all tried to educate, but facts seldom change what someone wants to believe and the OP's response to Lisa (performanceknls) shows that he truly has no idea what he is talking about, nor does he care to learn anything. I do hope he sticks around and educates himself because he desperately needs it. His dog comes from some nice bully lines and he should be proud of what they are and trying to learn everything he can about them.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Chloesmygirl said:


> While I do understand what you are saying, I am the queen of controversial subjects and I have just found out with personal experience through the years how I will most likely get people to see a different view from which they have been taught. You have most likely raised your 3 year old to know the difference. While, yes, registries can only go by what info breeders give them, you have to understand that many people out there only go by what is actually written on their paperwork. They really don't think that the reality is different. That is all I am saying. Not trying to argue here, just trying to figure out a better way to educate people is all.


True, the person getting the pup only knows what the KENNEL TELLS them and what is on the paper (unless they do a bunch of research first which the average owner doesn't). I was one of those naive owners that thought I was getting an APBT. I was naive, did no research and went just by what the person selling her to me told me. She in turn was telling me what the KENNEL she got hers from TOLD her. "Here's yer sign", it's the kennels RESPONSIBILITY to educate who they are selling to what in fact they are buying. And it's the kennels RESPONSIBILITY to even know what they heck they are selling in the first place. If all these kennels would get their act together it would go a long way, but until that happens we're fighting an uphill battle.


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## Chloesmygirl (Jan 31, 2011)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> I think we all tried to educate, but facts seldom change what someone wants to believe and the OP's response to Lisa (performanceknls) shows that he truly has no idea what he is talking about, nor does he care to learn anything. I do hope he sticks around and educates himself because he desperately needs it. His dog comes from some nice bully lines and he should be proud of what they are and trying to learn everything he can about them.


Agreed, they are some nice bullies, and I do hope they stick around to learn!


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Actually .... there have been times when I thought people came off a bit harsh to posters, but everyone that posted originally was very nice and complimentary to this person. And then the OP came rushing back with rudeness when they were told they were wrong -- even though everyone told them they had great examples of bullies.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Normally I am the one saying be nice to newbies but this guy has a website and is breeding dogs and have no clue WTH he has. It is not like he said look at my pretty APBT pup and we educate him it is a bully, this guy is already breeding and making money off a lie and that is what gets me. His response was showed he has no idea what he has but didn't want to come off that way. He made an excuse that he spelled their name like that to appeal I guess to the dumb folks that believe his BS. We all know better here and doubt he will be back since he is set on calling his dogs APBT's. His dogs look more what you see when ppl paper hang APBT's they really do not look like bullies either so maybe that is why he wants to call them pits....dunno


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## GinandJuicepits.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Diggit said:


> gin and juice- pit bulls back in the day didnt come in blue. it would be like one in a million chance of a apbt coming out blue, and most dogmen would "cull" it. because the blue color is a defected black gene, AND also a lot of skin problems come along with it.
> a new color just doesnt pop out like this consistantly.... just like a merle color pattern.
> 
> in the past 15 years people have got these "huge blue" dogs... how? paper hanging.
> ...


Thanks now that was productive Yes i do have a website but i've yet to breed any of my dogs and dont plan on it Until they are 2 and are given a health examination im simply trying to learn as much as i can im sorry if offended anyone i was simply trying to Learn and for Champions in King Lions pedigree i dont have time to sit here and look up distant ancestors of my dog i am told they are there and considering his STUD FEE IS 25,000 Dollars yes i said it GOOGLE IT i tend to believe the sources and i did show my dog last weekend and she got 3 out of over 200 dogs and she's now registered ABKC i just simply wanted more info on the debate


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

You have six litter's on the ground ... What are you talking about you haven't bred anything yet? This is what you need to do tear up your adba/ukc paper's and register your dog's as American Bullies here The American Bully Registry

Than once you do that you need to stick around and learn about the breed you actually own. Don't breed anything else until you have a handle on the history of your dogs and where they stem from and learn how to separate yourself from the rest of the puppy peddler's because that is what you are now a peddler there I said it . Yes we know about that outrageous stud fee for a dog that's not worth a penny. So what is your point? You think because someone slaps a 25k stud fee on a dog that actually means the dog is a quality animal and is worth being bred? If you don't even have the GD time to research where your dogs come from how the hell do you think you have the right to breed your dogs? You need to get your head out of your arse and listen to the folks on this forum who have been successfully breeding and producing quality animals for years and know these dogs inside and out. You are not even close to being at that level if you care about the breed so much then stop lying to yourself about what breed you actually own and your customers you owe them that much to be honest.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

umm you say on your site you are breeding in 2011 and it is confirmed. We are smarter than you think. Which show did you go to? 300 dogs is a large entry what bully show did you go to I would be interested to know what class you showed in as well.


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## Roxy_Nie (Oct 10, 2008)

The owner of King Lion says "We produce Elite American Pitbull Terriers. Our kennel is located in Southern California. We are known to produce the finest American Pitbull Terriers with unrivaled temperaments and Hollywood looks."


HAHAHAHA


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

OK I am seeing a lot of Iron Cross Kennels dogs in these peds on your site. ICK was banned by the UKC because of their lies and unethical breeding practices. Do you know anything about ICK dogs????


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

It's because of people with websites like you that we're having this conversation. I really don't have an issue with Bullies (except when they are called APBT) and AmBully is not a bad word. If that's what someone wants to own so be it, but call it what it is. If someone want to pay a ridiculous price for a dog again so be it. In my eyes there is still no set standard that Bully breeders are breeding to. You have AmBully breeders advertising XXL, XXXL, Pocket Pits, Low and Wide. My favorite thing is regardless of what they are breeding they all list Height, Head Size and Weight. Evolution? I've heard that same comment from another misinformed Bully breeder on this website. Pure bred dogs do not evolve like animals in the wild because they reproduce through human selection not nature selection. Mixing breeds together to create something different is also not evolution. I looked up King Lions ped and there are a ton of AmStaff it in, again not a Pit Bull. Also off your website you list Iron Cross dogs in the peds of your dogs. You might want to check this site out. ICK Banned From The UKC Roman got caught hanging papers. You may be basing your Pit Bull Kennel on mixed bred dogs. I hope you stick around here and learn something.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Elvisfink said:


> It's because of people with websites like you that we're having this conversation. I really don't have an issue with Bullies (except when they are called APBT) and AmBully is not a bad word. If that's what someone wants to own so be it, but call it what it is. If someone want to pay a ridiculous price for a dog again so be it. In my eyes there is still no set standard that Bully breeders are breeding to. You have AmBully breeders advertising XXL, XXXL, Pocket Pits, Low and Wide. My favorite thing is regardless of what they are breeding they all list Height, Head Size and Weight. Evolution? I've heard that same comment from another misinformed Bully breeder on this website. Pure bred dogs do not evolve like animals in the wild because they reproduce through human selection not nature selection. Mixing breeds together to create something different is also not evolution. I looked up King Lions ped and there are a ton of AmStaff it in, again not a Pit Bull. Also off your website you list Iron Cross dogs in the peds of your dogs. You might want to check this site out. ICK Banned From The UKC Roman got caught hanging papers. You may be basing your Pit Bull Kennel on mixed bred dogs. I hope you stick around here and learn something.


Yes, thank you Doug for posting that thread. To the OP you should check out that site and there was also a thread on here about it. 


> *ROMAN VAUGHN AND IRON CROSS KENNELS ARE BANNED FROM REGISTERING ANY ICK DOGS INDEFINITELY!!! THIS ALSO MEANS THAT LITTERS FROM DISCIPLE, STALEFISH, IRON MAIDEN CANNOT BE UKC REGISTERED EVER..................*


Roman was caught lying and hanging papers; furthermore,their foundation female is known to throw defects such as under bites, females with a prolapsed uterus, females with hormonal problems and males that have testicles that won't drop. That is not someone I would want to be associated with and definitely would not use any dog with that blood in my breeding program. ICK has been black balled by all ethical bully breeders. You really should do your homework for a few years because you have a lot to learn.


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## GinandJuicepits.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Sadie i dont care if you are a moderator you should know what you are talking about before you accuse me of something please explain how i could possibly have 6 litters on the Ground when my foundation dogs are 9 months and 15 months for the females and 12 months for the male dont tell me what i have...I have yet to sell one dog i have bought everyone including my new puppy... but seriously stop talking your embarassing yourself .... Performance kennels If my site which is far from complete told you to jump off a bridge would you???? thought so it also says the female isn't registered obviously its a work in progress just because it says confirmed doesn't mean its true good try though... And for Iron cross dogs you might see one or 2 in one of my dogs pedigrees but what does it matter because you all say all bullies are mixed breeds so what would it matter if its 2 generations away or 7 ... My female won 3rd place in the Birmingham ABKC show at the Birmingham convention center in the first show in which me or her ever competed and she competed in the standard competition not xl not pocket... and for Iron Cross i dont care for there dogs in the least.. Alabama iron cross who owns alot of dogs from them were at the show my dog placed in and i honestly took them as a joke they had a dog weigh in at 172 pounds ....the also had a lady show me a 4 month old female that weighed 60 pounds just like someone said inregards to comparing my dog to their APBT how do you consider MY Female which is 64 pounds the same as as a dog that weighs 172 pounds.... Please i would love for someone to explain


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

I didn't read this whole thread but I didn't have to read much to see what it was about! Seriously another Bully/Pit bull breeder in the works  Like the world needs more of those. I know it's a free country and we can do what we want with our dogs but why does every bully breed owner feel the need to breed and produce more dogs. TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR LOCAL SHELTER....it is Pit bull heaven  Some of the people who come on here and talk about breeding is the reason why we should have spay neuter laws and owners should have to pay money to get permission to breed and own kennels! Something needs to be regulated for theses BYB breeders. Not personally refering to you Gin and Juice just people on this forum as a whole. Sorry for the rant but this place is making me more angry with posts lately :curse:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> Sadie i dont care if you are a moderator you should know what you are talking about before you accuse me of something please explain how i could possibly have 6 litters on the Ground when my foundation dogs are 9 months and 15 months for the females and 12 months for the male dont tell me what i have...I have yet to sell one dog i have bought everyone including my new puppy... but seriously stop talking your embarassing yourself .... Performance kennels If my site which is far from complete told you to jump off a bridge would you???? thought so it also says the female isn't registered obviously its a work in progress just because it says confirmed doesn't mean its true good try though... And for Iron cross dogs you might see one or 2 in one of my dogs pedigrees but what does it matter because you all say all bullies are mixed breeds so what would it matter if its 2 generations away or 7 ... My female won 3rd place in the Birmingham ABKC show at the Birmingham convention center in the first show in which me or her ever competed and she competed in the standard competition not xl not pocket... and for Iron Cross i dont care for there dogs in the least.. Alabama iron cross who owns alot of dogs from them were at the show my dog placed in and i honestly took them as a joke they had a dog weigh in at 172 pounds ....the also had a lady show me a 4 month old female that weighed 60 pounds just like someone said inregards to comparing my dog to their APBT how do you consider MY Female which is 64 pounds the same as as a dog that weighs 172 pounds.... Please i would love for someone to explain


I am embarrassing myself ? You don't even acknowledge what you own and sell you call your dog's APBT's when they are American Bullies so who's embarrassing? So I guess your puppies for sale page with 6 litter's is not your's either oh I see you removed the pictures too of those pups !!!! Your so full of crap dude. And you spelled embarrassing wrong just thought I would point that out.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> Sadie i dont care if you are a moderator you should know what you are talking about before you accuse me of something please explain how i could possibly have 6 litters on the Ground when my foundation dogs are 9 months and 15 months for the females and 12 months for the male dont tell me what i have...I have yet to sell one dog i have bought everyone including my new puppy... but seriously stop talking your embarassing yourself ....


You want to know what's embarrassing? You call yourself a kennel when your the bottom of the barrel peddler .... you own American Bullies and register them as APBT's. This below was taken from your site you should be embarrassed by this ... You specialize and call yourself a Blue Pitbull Kennel? What your really saying is you breed for color and color only.. you don't breed any working quality show type animals because you breed for color first and foremost you should not only be ashamed of yourself as a kennel but embarrassed for not even knowing where your dog's stem from and then get mad when someone calls you out on it. Blue is just a color it's nothing special or rare it does not define a breed of dogs or their abilities and temperament nor does it make the dog anymore special if anything blue dogs are known to have more health issues but I don't see that mentioned on your site either . But you keep believing these lies you spit below and convince yourself of . :hammer::flush: At least I know what breed I own and am not misrepresenting my dog's to the public as something they are not ... nor do I breed to make money in fact I don't breed at all because I believe breeding animals should be done for a purpose in mind not for capital.

This crap below is truly embarrassing :flush:

Welcome to Gin and Juice Pits! We are a blue pitbull kennel located in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. We breed XL blue nose American Pit Bull Terriers with champion bloodlines which consist mainly of OG Greyline, Watchdog, Royal Blue Generation, and Powerlines. We strive to produce blue pitbull puppies that are conformationally correct with heavy bone, blocky heads, broad chests, muscular backsides, and shredded muscles, but most importantly, we breed for temperament. All of our blue nose pitbull puppies are socialized from a very young age. They are great with all other dogs, love all people, and are great with children of all ages. Our blue pitbulls possess so many great qualities, they can be used in many ways. They are extremely loyal, loving, intelligent, and athletic just to name a few. This allows our blue pit bulls to make for great guard dogs, hard workers, and most of all great family dogs and best friends. Our blue nose pitbull puppies are mostly blue, blue fawn, champagne, and brindle.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Also your banner flash states JUICE X KAYA BREEDING CONFIRMED FOR SPRING 2011!!!!

Ok so let's look at this

*JUICE*

*HEAD SIZE: 24 INCHES AT 12 MONTHS*
*WEIGHT: 90 LBS AT 12 MONTHS*
REG: UKC/ADBA
COLOR: Champagne
LINES: GREYLINE, WATCHDOG

DESCRIPTION ....

*KAYA*

*HEAD SIZE: 19 INCHES AT 12 MONTHS
WEIGHT: 70 LBS AT 12 MONTHS*
*REG:* *????????????? <---------------------?*
COLOR: BLUE BRINDLE
*LINES: ??????????????????? <---------------------------?*

DESCRIPTION ....

These dog's are just a year old taken from your website. You bred them because you stated the breeding has been confirmed on your website for spring 2011 even if the breeding hasn't taken place the dog's are only 1!!!! They have no working titles or accomplishments so why are you breeding them? What reason do you have to breed and how can you say what your dog's are capable of producing when you say you have never bred them ? How do you know they produce better than themselves better yet how do you know the parents are even quality animals when they are only 1!!! and haven't even had the chance to prove themselves to you as anything other than a pet? How many successful offspring have you raised and shown off these dogs to say for sure if these animals are truly breeding quality? You have NOTHING to go off of other than pedigree's and you don't even know how to read those nor do you even know the history behind your dogs. This is truly embarrassing I shouldn't have to point these things out to you as so called breeder/kennel you should already know the answers to all of these things before you even call yourself a kennel period. Not to mention you still don't acknowledge your dog's as American Bullies that makes this even more laughable. We breed Blue Pit Bulls LMAO!! That's not even a breed ... SMH Hell there are ton's of blue pet's in shelters waiting to be killed because more than half of them won't make it to a new home yet you want to produce some more blue pet's give me a break buddy. Yeah I am embarrassing myself ... No I am calling you out on your BS wake up and smell the espresso ....

And if myself and Performance Kennels are lying explain this ? A snap shot taken directly from your website.... You have 2 dog's being bred that are just 12 months old confirmed for spring 2011 according to your site ... I can read just fine can you? Or do you always advertise confirmed breeding's without any breeding being confirmed or taken place? Please enlighten me on this ....


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

LOL @ Sadie sssk em girl!


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> Sadie i dont care if you are a moderator you should know what you are talking about before you accuse me of something please explain how i could possibly have 6 litters on the Ground when my foundation dogs are 9 months and 15 months for the females and 12 months for the male dont tell me what i have...I have yet to sell one dog i have bought everyone including my new puppy... but seriously stop talking your embarassing yourself .... Performance kennels If my site which is far from complete told you to jump off a bridge would you???? thought so it also says the female isn't registered obviously its a work in progress just because it says confirmed doesn't mean its true good try though... And for Iron cross dogs you might see one or 2 in one of my dogs pedigrees but what does it matter because you all say all bullies are mixed breeds so what would it matter if its 2 generations away or 7 ... My female won 3rd place in the Birmingham ABKC show at the Birmingham convention center in the first show in which me or her ever competed and she competed in the standard competition not xl not pocket... and for Iron Cross i dont care for there dogs in the least.. Alabama iron cross who owns alot of dogs from them were at the show my dog placed in and i honestly took them as a joke they had a dog weigh in at 172 pounds ....the also had a lady show me a 4 month old female that weighed 60 pounds just like someone said inregards to comparing my dog to their APBT how do you consider MY Female which is 64 pounds the same as as a dog that weighs 172 pounds.... Please i would love for someone to explain


Are you talking about the Semper Fi show a few weekends ago? Looking at your site I don't see where any of your dogs are ABKC registered so I am wondering how you competed? One female doesn't look as though she is registered anywhere and the other looks like she is UKC registered only. Unless you got the 10$ temp registration or something, but if you don't think you have bullies because it is clear you have no idea WTF you have why did you want to compete in an ABKC show? My point about ICK dogs is that they are like a pariah in the Bully Community and nobody wants to be associated with them not to mention several of their dogs are not allowed to be registered with the UKC nor any dog off of them and as a breeder with ICK dogs in my program that is something you should look into. It's funny you market your dogs as something they are not and your responses to this thread are absolutely asinine. If your website isn't finished then I wouldn't put it up. Please don't quit your day job because thus far, your actions as a "breeder/kennel" have been an epic failure. 
WTF would you advertise something on your site that isn't true. Breeding confirmed says to me "Dog is pregnant."


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> WTF would you advertise something on your site that isn't true. Breeding confirmed says to me "Dog is pregnant."


Breed First ask questions later you didn't know?? :rofl: LOL

I guess he will worry about finding the dam's paper's if there are any after the pups get here. In the meantime he is rushing to throw up a site to make it LOOK like he is some sort of an established kennel. Sad part is there are a lot of sucker's who don't know any better. :flush:


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

> My female won 3rd place in the Birmingham ABKC show at the Birmingham convention center in the first show in which me or her ever competed and she competed in the standard competition not xl not pocket...


So which one was your dog because these are the 3rd place dogs from that show in that class:
*Female Standard 1-2
**Show 1 was Jailbreak First Lady*
*Show 2 was Lil Miss Lola
*


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

OMG wow. First off dude open up your mind just a little bit and you might just learn something. I don't know why people have to be so head strong about their dogs being APBTs when there not. Why is it so hard for people to accept that YES they are 2 different breeds. This problem also helps fuel BSL. People want to call every dog under the sun an APBT, and they want them to be guard dogs.
To the OP this breed was never bred to be guard dogs, they are not human aggressive, and people thinking it's cool or teach their "pits" to be aggressive are the reason they are trying to take all our dogs away. Please stick around and keep an open mind to the things you are reading here. This site is NOT a joke we love care deeply for this breed and most of us are very very protective of it, that's why debates can get heated here.
Every one has already shown you the correct standard for this breed. Here is my dog Dosia. He is probably one of the biggest real APBT's on this site. Totally too big for standards. He is 2 years old and is around 75lbs and 25in tall.



















As you can see even though he is big for standard he is not a big dog, he is still a medium size boy.


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

Why do you guys even bother at this point?

The OP doesn't care. They're going to keep doing what they're doing and then wonder why the pit bull breeds get such a bad rap because of THEIR actions. Talking to a brick wall.


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> my foundation dogs are 9 months and 15 months for the females and 12 months for the male dont tell me what i have...





GinandJuicepits.com said:


> He is the 1st pick male from my Girl kaya's littermate this is my girl


Let's talk ethics. You said your "foundation" dogs are too young to be bred, but the puppy you posted in this thread came from your girl Kaya's litter mate. So why
would you buy and support someone breeding such a young dog?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

He still never answered my question, where are the Ch's in your dogs peds? You are a liar and a BYB. No are not fooling anyone here and your posts show how little you know about bullies and apbt's. You want to see a real APBT website here ya go.......
k9performancekennels.com


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

beautiful pup


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## Diggit (Jan 24, 2011)

GinandJuicepits.com said:


> Thanks now that was productive Yes i do have a website but i've yet to breed any of my dogs and dont plan on it Until they are 2 and are given a health examination im simply trying to learn as much as i can im sorry if offended anyone i was simply trying to Learn and for Champions in King Lions pedigree i dont have time to sit here and look up distant ancestors of my dog i am told they are there and considering his STUD FEE IS 25,000 Dollars yes i said it GOOGLE IT i tend to believe the sources and i did show my dog last weekend and she got 3 out of over 200 dogs and she's now registered ABKC i just simply wanted more info on the debate


his stud fee is 25,000 dollars huh?

does that mean anything to you? maybe all he wants is MONEY. the people who pay that much are bat **** crazy.

never trust a person into the dogs for MONEY. you will be disapointed.

I bought that POS dog I had for 800$ with the HD and ED in his ped.

that lil white PURE pit bull I own... free. and shes one pull away from ACE.
that red and white male I own... 250$ and hes a adba conformation champion.

what is 25,000 give you? a couch orniment? 
vet bills?

money... money.... money....

you think oh wow his stud fee is 25,000.... but really thats a BAD thing. peddlers are in for the money. not the breed.. or the greater good of the breed.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Diggit said:


> his stud fee is 25,000 dollars huh?
> 
> does that mean anything to you? maybe all he wants is MONEY. the people who pay that much are bat **** crazy.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:
That sounds insane to me too.


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## LusciousLips (Feb 2, 2011)

*For ur Pup*

*He is Amazing, Beautiful and gorgeous WOW!!!! The Lion pit*


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

.......................


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Took care of it ........ Lucious there is no such thing as a red blue nose genetically it's impossible you have a red nose dog and that's only a color stick around and you shall learn. BTW no advertising or peddling pups allowed on this forum and no stud service ads either.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Doug you're my hero! LMAO


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

LOL wow i havent read this in a few days OMG. JFYI just because someone advertises there dog stud fee at $25,000 doesnt mean thats what people pay , alot of times its used as a gossip tool so when his pups hit the ground people think " oh wow they must be some nice pups his dad is alot of money to use" most people wont even be paying a fraction of it. and other people who have prices like that have no agenda to stud out there dog to anyone " why have there blood go anywhere then with them if they have worked so hard on it" but they put that tag on it for any dummy who would actually pay that. I do like your pup i just agree with what is being said on here as far as your ethics and your choice in words for advertising. I own american bullys and Im very fast to correct anyone who calls them pit bulls , I like what they are and bought them for what they are you should be proud of your dogs and want to represent them properly.


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## d0r1en0 (Feb 3, 2011)

looks like mine. Nice! I just got a lil mama.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

This has been pretty funny hey. The guy doesnt even know what he is peddling.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

junkyard said:


> This has been pretty funny hey. The guy doesnt even know what he is peddling.


What I find even more funny is he doesn't seem to care.


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