# APBT vs American Bully and BYBs



## wilcher (Aug 24, 2009)

First of all let me say I came to this site to learn and see other opinions. I have not posted much, just been reading. It seems most on here try very hard to make sure people know the difference between the two. If there is such a difference, who registers the AmBully? Is it registered as APBT? If some say RE and Grey lines are AM Bully I need more proof. My male has RE and Greylines and in NO WAY is he Bully. I looked at a few kennels who have these lines that register with ADBA and the dogs are very game looking not bully at all. This is my male Kaden. He is 58 lbs.








Part 2: I read alot of anger toward BYBs as well. I agreesome people just want to breed for the wrong reasons, BUT some of the site users who are very legit breeders may have started as a very small 2 dog kennel and over time became the reputable breeder they are today by learning more about the breed through hands on raising dogs and competitions and research. I personally am trying to better the breed of APBT and plan to breed. Since I will be new to breeding some of you will call me a back yard breeder. Just think about how you started and instead of making acusations against me, I only ask for knowledge. Thanks for reading; I hope to read some informational replies.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I have bad news for you..... You're dog is a bully. You're dog falls under the new "classic" bully style. My boy Lugz is not large by any means, but I won't deny that he's a bully, he's a gottyline for pete's sake. Seriously, people having bullies and calling them APBT is what makes the APBT ppl get mad. I guess you could say you got a rodesian ridge back without a ridge.... LOL. I dunno what proof to give you, all that's ever been proven as far as paperhanging goes is the fact that Dave Wilson, the creator of RE, said that he may have done some breed crossing.


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## wilcher (Aug 24, 2009)

Thanks for the reply, how did RE get papered as APBT if they have breed crossings?


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

's called paper hanging. Basically you have two dogs with papers and then another dog, say your neighbors dog, you breed with the neighbors dog and then say your dog with papers is the father. That's why they have DNA profiling as an option with the kennel clubs.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Greyline is where Gotti came from, and Richard Barajaz has openly admitted that he has no idea what went into Gotti, that's just the way he bought him.

BTW, I co-own a RE bitch that looks like your boy but with a bigger head and more muscle, she's straight old RE too.


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## wilcher (Aug 24, 2009)

Paper hanging...very sneaky and F'ing wrong! See, that's why I am here. I never heard of that until now.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Yeap, not an uncommon practice. I know of one unmentionable kennel who that has a really good hook up.... Well, I heard from a reputable source here in AZ that they buy litters from other ppl, like craigslist, and then register them as their own. That story gets better but I really don't wanna talk about it on an open board.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

wilcher said:


> Paper hanging...very sneaky and F'ing wrong! See, that's why I am here. I never heard of that until now.


Oh and this will probably be the beginning of a list. A lot of people lie about these dogs. They are so seeked out, that bybs thrive off of people with little to no experience, and use flashy sites, and "rare" qualities to entice people.

A lot of dogs get mistaken for pitbulls. anything that resembles the american pitbull terrier in any way can be labeled a pitbull by the media, the law, and by the masses that don't know any better.


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## wilcher (Aug 24, 2009)

Thanks for the replies, but noone answered if American bullies are registered in there own or as APBT's. If waht you say is true that my male is bully because of his blood lines of RE and Greylines why is he and his entire pedigree ADBA APBT. Thanks.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Many ppl who breed are still reg them with the UKC and ADBA as APBT's but there is a few reg that registries bullies as their own breed. The problem is the Am bully does not have a standard that all agree to breed to so you get dogs like yours, dogs like Tua (short pocket pit), and then the 150lb bullies. It is a new breed starting in the 1990's so many are trying to breed for a standard in Am bullies. They still and may always be registered as APBT's but we know they are Am bullies. It is not like the registries can take all the papers back do you know how many dogs have RE, Gotti, GL, WD and so on?

And just a helpful hint for you since your are right we all have to start somewhere, Before you breed you have to know what your stock is, the fact you want to breed is fine but you have no clue what your dog is and you want to breed him? I have seen many new breeders start with the best possible stock for their kennel even if it is 2 dogs. They are not considered BYB because they have done research about the peds maybe have health testing done, and have dogs worthy of being bred by a CH or sports titles. A BYB just puts two dogs together without the knowledge of what they have. Also before the dogs have proved to be worthy of breeding. So yes you are just learning but you do not have to start out as a BYB, you can out your time and work into the dogs and do it right.

I am happy you are hear to learn!


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## SEO (Jul 7, 2009)

Just like PK said.

Please do not bred without knowing what you have. I was a victim of a byb. I didn’t know better (totally my fault). I bought Blue, thinking he was an APBT. I understand that you love your dog, but it doesn’t mean that it will better or at least presrve the bred. Just look in shelters or craingslist, all the dogs that are posted for re-homing. It is so sad. I would take them all, but you know we can’t. I will be a breeder some day, just not now. I will by 2 Colby dogs (if possible) and start with a foundation. 

Please don’t do it. Just think off all the pups that will be killed un-necessarily.

No harm intended. Your dog is very good looking.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

wilcher said:


> Thanks for the reply, how did RE get papered as APBT if they have breed crossings?


That's because the registries are just as corrupt as the breeders. $ is the name of the game.


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## SEO (Jul 7, 2009)

buzhunter said:


> That's because the registries are just as corrupt as the breeders. $ is the name of the game.


yup...........


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

wilcher said:


> ... some of the site users who are very legit breeders may have started as a very small 2 dog kennel and over time became the reputable breeder they are today by learning more about the breed through hands on raising dogs and competitions and research. I personally am trying to better the breed of APBT and plan to breed. Since I will be new to breeding some of you will call me a back yard breeder.


A lot of really well-respected kennels don't keep a whole lot of dogs. You wont generally find people suggesting that a kennel is legit and fantabulous because they have a mess of dogs running around. But you don't become reputable by taking your first two dogs and breeding them to start your kennel. To paraphrase something said by one of the most reputable AmStaff breeders I've ever known (Lora Bauer, Hartagold AST/APBT, now RIP):

"Get yourself a good dog. Show it, train it, get some titles on it. Then spay it."

Basically what she was getting at was to use your first well-bred/show/pedigree dog to learn about the shows and teach you to be a better handler, to get your feet wet in a sense. But don't feel like its necessarily the best dog to use to start your program. A lot of people feel that they _must_ breed the dogs they have in order to "get better" at breeding. I feel like you need to go through a few dogs and compare them to what's out there, spay/neuter as necessary. Once you've got some years and a string of accomplishments behind you, then take a look at the breeding portion of the game.

So would I call you a backyard breeder? If you're breeding dogs first and then using them to get into competitions and the like later, then the shoe fits. If you're more like what Lora described, then not necessarily. I have a hell of a dog who has done a lot and passed her health tests, but she will never be bred because I was not ready with her.

I am still learning more about the breeding portion of this dog thing and will hopefully be good and ready if I ever breed one of mine. To toss out a time frame I've discussed, maybe in 4 years. So from the time I got Loki as a puppy to the time I might breed my first litter... 9 years. And no loss to the breed that I waited. Further, since I've had lots of time to make myself known, there would be precious few who would apply the BYB title to me. They know I'm serious about improving the breed and that I am fairly picky, that I show/work my dogs, that I temperament-test, that I health-test, and that I'll be screening homes. *That* is the way to go about it. There's no rush. 

_^^All just friendly advice.^^_


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