# Thoughts on personal protection dogs (this is a long one!)



## Kora (Aug 16, 2012)

Before I begin I just want to say I'm not speaking of APBT, AmStaffs or AmBullys. I don't view them as a dog that should be used for PP work for many reasons. The dogs we're looking at are Presa Canarios, working line Neo Mastiffs, or Bandogs with a high Neo/Presa content. Possibly a Mal. That being said, I'll get into things.

My husband thinks I should have a personal protection dog for when I'm on calls, home alone, and when I'm out and about. Why?
When I go on cruelty calls, 9 times out of 10 I'm going into the house of a fugitive or the home of someone who has been arrested. And 9 times out of 10 its drug related. I've been in meth houses, crack houses, etc and accompanied by law enforcement. However, I'm only accompanied by law enforcement if the home hasn't been cleared. If it HAS been cleared, I'm pretty much on my own aside from another rescue worker. We don't carry guns. We HAVE been shot at before. Someone could show up and threaten us, which has also happened. Things like this doesn't really bother me, I like high risk work. Its why I do it lol but the husband isn't too fond of it.

For when I'm at home. I work weird hours, so when I'm off work (part time) I'm usually home alone until early morning. We recently had a murder in the town I live in related to drugs. (Indiana drug dealing suspect dead after plea bargain | FortWayne.com - Fort Wayne IN)The man that was killed was my Uncle's best friend. Lucky me. My uncle is friendly with a lot of the drug dealers around here, and I'm the only person in our family that isn't blind to the fact that he's a user. Bad thing about that? Said drug dealers come to ME to find him. Now that scares the living  out of me. I've had run ins with them before, coming here looking for him or his money. They've stolen his car from my driveway (he used it as collateral) etc. I'm a tiny girl, I'd have no chance. So, I do like the idea for this instance.

Lastly, for when I'm walking/out and about. I walk a lot of back county roads, at night mostly. Probably not the smartest thing to do around here, but its the only time I have to do it other than my days off. Dear husband is afraid I'll be abducted or whatever. I do a lot of my errands at this time too. Going to the ATM, dropping food off to my uncle (he's a mooch, not gonna lie) out feeding dogs, etc. I'm not too worried about this instance, but the husband doesn't like it.

Now, you ask. Why not have a gun? There are a lot of reasons. I won't get into it, but its not because I'm against them or anything like that. Trying to keep this short as possible for you guys and I'm failing miserably.

I'm really not sure how I feel on the idea of a pp dog, basically because I've never really researched into them until now. I don't really understand how they work, I guess. I don't want an aggressive dog that's going to try and kill everyone lol I'd want a dog that's going to defend when needed but also be a companion in and outside the home. Obviously if its going to be going around with me it's going to need to be sociable right? I can't be taking a dog to the bank and have it scaring the patrons, or walking down the road and try to defend me from anyone walking by. 
Could I use the dog in other areas, like sport? For instance, wp? I don't want a dog I'm not going to be able to do anything with or that I'm going to have to worry about. 
This is a good example of what I'd want.





So...opinions? I told my husband I'd ask you guys, research it, talk to trainers, breeders etc. before I gave him an answer.


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

What is it that you do? Is your job willing to cover the liability of the damage a protection dog could do? Same goes for if you take the dog places are you ready for the liability? As for stability a well bred and trained protection dog is not going to just go after anyone. We have people on the forum who do work their dogs ( mainly SCH which is sport not like PP or PSA) but I think maybe a few that do real protection work. So they will have much more to give you on that.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

..I'm one who does "real" work as to PP and I can tell you right now unless you work for yourself and not a company, they will tell yothat you are fully liable for any resulting injuries your K9 inflicts as the insurance and paper work would be tremendous for a company to back that up... Unless it is a company that already uses K9 units as part of their program for your particular field in which case you would go through the company and be assigned an animal.

I'm on my phone with limited time so I can continue at a later date however as to some of your questions there are various degrees of which you are after, or thinking you are after... In my opinion something along the lines of Chimeras yard would best suited as he offers animals of which can offer protection while still maintaining the balanced mentality of being a companion and family dog.. which is a sacrifice in some gene pools of such am animal..As to your WP and activity questions, Yes you can however I personally would not stray too far off the path of which has been instilled to achieve.. Bandogs as Bulldogs are some of the most versatile animals in the world, however to achieve the consistency and peak ability with functions I limit the side material and focus on why the animal was bred, why I keep the animal and what has been instilled thus perfecting the genetic tools that are in place.

I'd also be careful who you talk to for quest as you can find plenty of breeders out there for Presas, Corsos, etc and some may even do Schutzhund however most are wash of what the dog is.. a little bite work and some schutzhund titles do not equal a quality protection animal or guard dog,, it means little.


----------



## Kora (Aug 16, 2012)

I do animal cruelty rescue and investigations. I'm certified though the area police departments as well as though the ASPCA in New York (though that one is mostly to keep people at ease and doesn't amount to much) I am considered self employed due to the fact that our organization is a 501c3 and we're totally volunteer. I don't get paid by the organization I work for either. Only the director and I are certified to do on call investigations and the like, and I know the director has no issue with taking a PP dog because she has been wanting one as well. Our police officer that works with us most frequently is a K9 unit and has even told us to look into a PP dog on a few sketchy occasions. 
Also my husband and I are wanting to open our own business within the next few years so he likes the idea that whenever I'd be the one closing, I'd have the dog there. 

KM - I had actually seen Chimera kennels and loved what I had seen. They seemed to have what I was looking for. Like you said, he offers animals that can offer protection as well as being well balanced family dogs as well. And they're absolutely stunning dogs!
I'd be fine with the dog not really being involved in anything else. You made a good point as far as using the dog for what it was bred for.

Also, if I were to go along with this idea. Would you recommend getting a finished dog or starting off with a pup? Obviously my husband wants a finished dog so it could start working right away. I, however, kind of like the idea of starting off with a pup. So I could work with the trainer to get exactly what it is I'm looking for.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with getting a "finished" animal for protection work however the bond between handler and animal tends to be stronger if you pick up a puppy and start from scratch as you are putting in the work together... Especially if you want an animal that will more or less be companion with the opportunity and trained to be used for situations where protection may be needed.

Also, as far as training you do NOT want to go to a regular trainer nor one who does sport Schutzhund, you want to go to one experienced in specifically training guard dogs for "real life" applications.

For instance, theres a Military K9 facility in Hartsville SC that trains k9 units for both police and Military K9 Officers, one of the guys that works at the facility also does some private dog work on the side.. Kenny West i believe is his last name, this would be an ideal situation for your needs if someone locally for you has that type of background.. Otherwise, you may end up with an unstable, unpredictable OR sporting mentality of which will fail if something were to happen otherwise.

8 times out of 10 if someone sees the dog, they back down from my experience.. Most are not stupid enough or scared of dogs, they see it too much as a risk or challenge to mess with someone or attempt to break in someones house, or property if there are dogs present.. Particularly ones that appear to be there for reason. (Guard Property, Human, etc)


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

If you want, i can PM you some information from the training aspect as to what all is involved.. Some people cannot handle what is involved to a degree and if your one of them, it may be best to get a finished dog..

I'd rather PM you as i don't feel comfortable disclosing such in an open manor as it can be taken and seen from wrong aspects and be used against.


----------



## Kora (Aug 16, 2012)

I'd love that! Thanks!

My only issue now is finding a capable trainer around us. I'd be willing to go a reasonable distance, but so far I'm only finding sports trainers. If I can't find a capable trainer, I'd go with a finished dog of course. The last thing I would want is an unstable dog or one that won't work when needed.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Kora (Aug 16, 2012)

Also, you said that just the presence of the dog alone should deter any thieves or attackers. That's what I'm after. I'd only ever ask the dog to defend me physically if someone were about to harm me or approached with a weapon.

It's a shame that our dogs would probably invite the person in and show them where all the valuable items are lol

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

KMdogs said:


> If you want, i can PM you some information from the training aspect as to what all is involved.. Some people cannot handle what is involved to a degree and if your one of them, it may be best to get a finished dog..
> 
> I'd rather PM you as i don't feel comfortable disclosing such in an open manor as it can be taken and seen from wrong aspects and be used against.


i'd like that also if it aint to much trouble.


----------



## gerhart (Apr 14, 2013)

There is a show bout that name alpha dog. Why not get a gun?


----------



## Kora (Aug 16, 2012)

There are many reasons I do not own a gun. Besides, what good is a gun going to do when it's in my home and I'm not? It's not going to shoot an intruder by itself.
My family has owned guns and had their homes burglarized because of them. My grandfather had quite the collection, nothing special or rare though. Came home to a busted door and missing guns.
My uncle has a history of getting into our houses while we're away and the last thing I want is a gun registered under my name getting stolen by one of his stupid friends then being used for some illegal use.
Nothing against guns, I actually love shooting with my grandpa. I'd rather just not have one in the house.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

gerhart said:


> There is a show bout that name alpha dog. Why not get a gun?


Because guns get turned against owners all the time good luck turning a dog against its owner. ....


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Because guns get turned against owners all the time good luck turning a dog against its owner. ....


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost: You also have to be able to draw it and shoot under pressure. You hit a wrong spot you could be facing criminal charges, where as your dog is not likely to kill a person on accident or at all since they target certain spots everytime.


----------



## Kora (Aug 16, 2012)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Because guns get turned against owners all the time good luck turning a dog against its owner. ....


Perfectly said!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

with all that being said, i domt think an apbt is the best protection dog.

there are far better animals to fit that bill, 110lb dodermans, 130lb rottweilers, i believe you could even get a 150lb great dane to become a protection dog.

apbt's females are only 35-45lbs and the males get to be about 65lbs at the biggest.

so not gonna be as intimadating also. plus there are reasons you dont see real gamebred apbt's used for p.p.


----------



## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

surfer said:


> with all that being said, i domt think an apbt is the best protection dog.
> 
> there are far better animals to fit that bill, 110lb dodermans, 130lb rottweilers, i believe you could even get a 150lb great dane to become a protection dog.
> 
> ...


I don't believe she was talking about APBT for a protection dog. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Theres a few pitbull type dogs (even "game bred") that have excelled in pp work. It all based on individual dog and training. Me personally (even though others wont agree) id get a doberman for pp work


----------



## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Theres a few pitbull type dogs (even "game bred") that have excelled in pp work. It all based on individual dog and training. Me personally (even though others wont agree) id get a doberman for pp work


I'd get the same 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

surfer said:


> with all that being said, i domt think an apbt is the best protection dog.
> 
> there are far better animals to fit that bill, 110lb dodermans, 130lb rottweilers, i believe you could even get a 150lb great dane to become a protection dog.
> 
> ...


She said in the first sentence she's not using an APBT.



Kora said:


> *Before I begin I just want to say I'm not speaking of APBT, AmStaffs or AmBullys. I don't view them as a dog that should be used for PP work for many reasons. The dogs we're looking at are Presa Canarios, working line Neo Mastiffs, or Bandogs with a high Neo/Presa content. Possibly a Mal.* That being said, I'll get into things.


----------



## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Cain's Mom said:


> I'd get the same
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Doberman were bred as protection dogs. Most german breeds were.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Modern Danes are wash unless you find yourself a yard of which has bred out the genetic ability in the line and animal, however breeding programs of many Bandogs have used Dane in the foundation for a reason..

Throw back to English Dogge which is all in genetics, the foundation to Boar Hound which was a 85 to 110 pound Bandog by any account.. Given I feed such, I wouldnt recommend to the OP for needs however in Mexico, Spain and Germany there are a few yards and programs who have selectively bred out Danes for both docile companions and personal protection if that is something of interest.. been a few threads I've discussed, around 130 pounds worth of dog..
Guns can fail and unless you live in a state where if on your property you have the right to protect yourself with out legal repercussion it is not wise. Nor would it be wise given the OP needs something outside of their own yard and property as well.

Guarding and Protection is one of THE oldest uses for dogs, there is a reason the function still stands today after all the wash and garbage being produced. Hunting, Protection and blood sport. All three the oldest and the reason why genetically the Bulldog and Bandog can be directly traced back further than any other domesticated dog.

OP if you want me to include specific animals Let me know in your pm, welder I'll PM you as well when I get her information she seeks and if you want me to include more than specifically what you want to know Let me know.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Oh and as far as using APBT genes, the best alternatives would be American Bulldog or Dogo for that "type" of mentality


----------



## Kora (Aug 16, 2012)

Oh yes, I wont be using a bully breed. Not that I don't think they'd be capable or anything like that. I just know that if I were to use one, as soon as people around here got wind about what it was trained for I'd have every cop in a 30 mile radius knocking on my door for some ridiculous made up complaint. Then if I ever were to need the dog to defend, they wouldn't even care if it were for self defense. All they would see was a "pit bull" attacking a guy. 

As for Danes, I've watched them used in PP work by breeders overseas. VERY intimidating dogs when they're bred for that, but I have a Dane and I really don't want another...


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Kora said:


> Oh yes, I wont be using a bully breed. Not that I don't think they'd be capable or anything like that. I just know that if I were to use one, as soon as people around here got wind about what it was trained for I'd have every cop in a 30 mile radius knocking on my door for some ridiculous made up complaint. Then if I ever were to need the dog to defend, they wouldn't even care if it were for self defense. All they would see was a "pit bull" attacking a guy.
> 
> As for Danes, I've watched them used in PP work by breeders overseas. VERY intimidating dogs when they're bred for that, but I have a Dane and I really don't want another...


They're one of the most natural, along with Tosa, traditional Dogos and traditional Boerboel


----------



## Kora (Aug 16, 2012)

Are you speaking of the APBT? 

And I adore Dogos. My husband's family has a few that they use as catch dogs for hog hunting out in Texas. Stunning dogs and breathtaking to watch in action.


----------



## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

i know that was my fault, just read the beginninbg post, i dont believe she was talking about APBT's either.
sorry bout that


----------



## devonte151 (Oct 24, 2012)

Wouldnt mind having rotweiler in some bandog presa/rotti anybody seenn this mixes


----------



## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

A personal protection dog opens yourself up to a HUGE liability if someone gets hurt not to mention the insurance you would have to carry. Don't like guns? Get a tazer lol. seriously you don't need a professionally trained dog, get a guardian breed maybe adopt one who is already an adult and would be suited for the work.


----------



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> A personal protection dog opens yourself up to a HUGE liability if someone gets hurt not to mention the insurance you would have to carry. Don't like guns? Get a tazer lol. seriously you don't need a professionally trained dog, get a guardian breed maybe adopt one who is already an adult and would be suited for the work.


I'm looking into the OP state regulations and laws, etc.. there are loop holes in each state as far ad what you can legally do in terms of use of protection and guarding animals while still playing by the book.

For instance, I pay for liability insurance on both and registered with the state last year which has to be renewed yearly in order to be legally used without any fines, repercussions etc if in the event one of my animals does bodily harm to an individual while at work.. it took if I remember correctly 8 weeks from filing, temperament testing with the county and state as well as other regulations and certifications that were required.. I pay 650 for both per year, 105 per dog per month for insurance as well as state and county signs for my yard certified.. state issued not the kind you pick up at a dog store.

Insurance would have been almost twice as high per dog without certification and obligations would have been dumped on me in the event of.. some you do by county only.

However each state is different and in some states you cannot register such an animal and in this case, if something were to happen it is on you which is a whole nother ball game altogether..


----------

