# Too much protein



## ranger (Apr 26, 2010)

Took my boy to the vet today due to both of his front paws are slightly pointed outwards (unlike the bad cases of easty westy). He is 5 months as of today, the vet told me to feed him large breed adult food because he is more than likely receiving too much protein. The vet stated the food switch will slow down his rate of growth which is the reason his front paws are slightly pointed outwards... Has anyone ever heard of this, I am not to fond of the idea of slowing down his rate of growth...

He has been on Kirklands premium puppy chicken, rice & vegetable formula....


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## MMZero2009 (Jun 12, 2010)

yes i am currently having problems with my puppy because of that, switch to a low protein diet, performanceknls and geisthexe helped alot and recommended the brand "Blue buffalo healthy diet Adult" it has 20% protein, it is the yellow bag. I just bought this yesterday and hopefully my dog recovers. i will let you know how it goes after about a week or two.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

This is an issue that I've brought up a few times on this forum and still don't understand why the PREMIUM foods think that ultra protein amounts are necessary for pups when you see the problems it can cause!


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I think if your dog is over weight then it will cause the deffect on the pasterns. I am talking about having weak pasterns, now if your dog's toes point out that is purely genetic and there is nothing you can do about that. I would stick with a low protein all life stages kibble until the dog is 8 months which is roughly around the time they stop growing in height and this is the time when the growth plates close. This is just an estimate but after some research I did of our breed type the closing comes around 8-10 months if the dog is intact. After that time frame you should be alright to change the kibble to a higher protein content. Bernie was put on 24% protein until 8 months then switched to 32% after that.


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## chrisandpits (Feb 9, 2010)

I agree!!! Just the weight problems in youth these days. They are eating too much of the wrong things at too young of an age, just the same as puppies don't need the same amout of protein as an adult male or he will grow too big, too fast! You are right, you don't want to "stop" his growing, but you don't want to speed it up way too fast either. He will do just as well on a good lower protein adult food, I have mine on Natural Balance and have had great results with it. Good luck and I hope you get the diet figured out soon!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Kirkland is not very high in protein it is only 28% and the feet turning out slightly could be genetic not growth related because of the breed. APBT's and Bullies and go easty westy and I have a dog who slightly toes out and it is genetic. Pictures would help but my guess is genetic, also what breed of dog bully or APBT, and how much does he weigh and how much did his parents weigh. If he is going to be a large dog like around 80 plus lbs you might want to consider putting him on a large breed or adult food. You do not want any breed to grow to fast because then they can get a lot of problems with structure.


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

davidfitness83 said:


> I think if your dog is over weight then it will cause the deffect on the pasterns. I am talking about having weak pasterns, now if your dog's toes point out that is purely genetic and there is nothing you can do about that. I would stick with a low protein all life stages kibble until the dog is 8 months which is roughly around the time they stop growing in height and this is the time when the growth plates close. This is just an estimate but after some research I did of our breed type the closing comes around 8-10 months if the dog is intact. After that time frame you should be alright to change the kibble to a higher protein content. Bernie was put on 24% protein until 8 months then switched to 32% after that.


As much as I agree with most of what David is saying there is also other reasons / issues that happen for problem it is not alway how much protein you feed or how much weight is on the dog.

Genetics is a BIG issue for the following
- Low pasterns 
- Flat paws/feet
- Easty/Westy
- Hip Dysplasia 
- Cow hock
- Sickle hock

To many folks in the DOG WORLD are breeding dogs just to breed. So they throw a VERY FEW nice dogs but most are bad due to bad lines (pedigree) 
You really need to look into lines if you are purchasing a bred pup from a breeder.

Now dont go and get a lower protein food just b/c you THINK it might happen to your dog. NOT all dogs are the same just like HUMANS are not the same. I am hypoglycemic so I can not really eat to many gluten & sugar. But you might be able to eat any and all what I can not.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> As much as I agree with most of what David is saying there is also other reasons / issues that happen for problem it is not alway how much protein you feed or how much weight is on the dog.
> 
> Genetics is a BIG issue for the following
> - Low pasterns
> ...


:goodpost: great points not all dogs will have issues with diet, if they do you adjust the diet.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Your vet doesn't know how your dog was bred. Just saying. My pup has easty westy, as does his dad.. So I know it's genetic and not what I feed. When my boys coat is dry, I add some oil, etc. I like Deb's post, adjust dog to dog, not going by a generalization.


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## fortyfootelf (Feb 2, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> This is an issue that I've brought up a few times on this forum and still don't understand why the PREMIUM foods think that ultra protein amounts are necessary for pups when you see the problems it can cause!


the answer to this is the fact the consumers will buy it thinking that it will be better for their dog. people are stupid, what they read and hear is what they tend to believe. if everyone did their research then all dogs would be the s*&%. a puppy does need protein but just like you state they dont need the highest protein dog kibble you can find. to be honest you can feed your pup any food no matter if it is purina or chicken soup. then they reach a 1.5 or 2 years thats when i reccommend that you feed them with the better more expensive holistic food. that is if you want to completly spoil your dog rotten like mine 

i prefer to feed red raw with some Blue Buff Kibble, that way he gets his protein to grow out (muscles) and those other nutrients that the kibble has to offer. the fresher the better but i cannot afford to feed straight raw and fresh veggies every meal.

i like using the raw meat so i will know that he actually is getting the protein that he should be. but if your usung real meat then i wouldnt get the kibble with the highest protein either.. too much of anything is bad for anything... if that made any sence to anyone lol


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

fortyfootelf said:


> the answer to this is the fact the consumers will buy it thinking that it will be better for their dog. people are stupid, what they read and hear is what they tend to believe. if everyone did their research then all dogs would be the s*&%. a puppy does need protein but just like you state they dont need the highest protein dog kibble you can find. to be honest you can feed your pup any food no matter if it is purina or chicken soup. then they reach a 1.5 or 2 years thats when i reccommend that you feed them with the better more expensive holistic food. that is if you want to completly spoil your dog rotten like mine
> 
> i prefer to feed red raw with some Blue Buff Kibble, that way he gets his protein to grow out (muscles) and those other nutrients that the kibble has to offer. the fresher the better but i cannot afford to feed straight raw and fresh veggies every meal.
> 
> i like using the raw meat so i will know that he actually is getting the protein that he should be. but if your usung real meat then i wouldnt get the kibble with the highest protein either.. too much of anything is bad for anything... if that made any sence to anyone lol


It makes sense to me. I guess I've just heard too much about this protein amount and the effects it can cause lately. I think I've seen or read about this 3-4 times in the last couple of weeks and now I'm ultra sensitive to it. I mean we all want to get the best food for our pup, and now even the best food can cause problems. I think with my next pup, I'll just make sure it's a premium food that comes in on the lower end of the protein scale!


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## fortyfootelf (Feb 2, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> It makes sense to me. I guess I've just heard too much about this protein amount and the effects it can cause lately. I think I've seen or read about this 3-4 times in the last couple of weeks and now I'm ultra sensitive to it. I mean we all want to get the best food for our pup, and now even the best food can cause problems. I think with my next pup, I'll just make sure it's a premium food that comes in on the lower end of the protein scale!


it isnt that the premium food causes problems, its that your puppy simply doesnt need all that extra protein. you can still feed it to him but you have to make him burn the extra nutrients that comes with it. the protein will help build the muscle but in turn you have to replenish the carbs, calcium, etc to keep a firm healthy doggy. if you can balance his meals with his exercising then you ought to be fine. but geisthexe is the nutritionist she is the one that knows all haha. she might be able to get you and your pup on the correct diet at his age and weight.

raw food is deffinatly the way to go IMO. in this case you know exactly what is in your food that you are giving him and can control his intake. in doing this you will gain a understanding on what ingredient does what, then being able to moderate what your dog needs more and less of. i know its nasty but you can tell alot of things by just looking at your dogs fecis, weather he is healthy, sick, dehydrated, or if it is a lack of another thing. but alot of us dont feed raw bkuz it can put a dent on the ol pocketbook, especially with our breed.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

fortyfootelf said:


> it isnt that the premium food causes problems, its that your puppy simply doesnt need all that extra protein. you can still feed it to him but you have to make him burn the extra nutrients that comes with it. the protein will help build the muscle but in turn you have to replenish the carbs, calcium, etc to keep a firm healthy doggy. if you can balance his meals with his exercising then you ought to be fine. but geisthexe is the nutritionist she is the one that knows all haha. she might be able to get you and your pup on the correct diet at his age and weight.
> 
> raw food is deffinatly the way to go IMO. in this case you know exactly what is in your food that you are giving him and can control his intake. in doing this you will gain a understanding on what ingredient does what, then being able to moderate what your dog needs more and less of. i know its nasty but you can tell alot of things by just looking at your dogs fecis, weather he is healthy, sick, dehydrated, or if it is a lack of another thing. but alot of us dont feed raw bkuz it can put a dent on the ol pocketbook, especially with our breed.


I definitely agree that every dog owner should keep a watchful eye on their dog's fecal matter. It is quite telling and is a lost art form


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## fortyfootelf (Feb 2, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> I definitely agree that every dog owner should keep a watchful eye on their dog's fecal matter. It is quite telling and is a lost art form


:rofl:now i dont know about a lost art form hahahahaha thats just gross but it does need to be done so you will know if your dog is healthy or not. and it isnt necessarily just dogs its all animals. but you had me rollin :roll: that was funny:rofl:


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

fortyfootelf said:


> :rofl:now i dont know about a lost art form hahahahaha thats just gross but it does need to be done so you will know if your dog is healthy or not. and it isnt necessarily just dogs its all animals. but you had me rollin :roll: that was funny:rofl:


Thanks for laughing, it definitely was some crappy humor


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

You know you're a dog weirdo when you go outside and inspect poop, especially when you have to get a stick to check something you see! LMAO common you know we've all done it!


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## ranger (Apr 26, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> Kirkland is not very high in protein it is only 28% and the feet turning out slightly could be genetic not growth related because of the breed. APBT's and Bullies and go easty westy and I have a dog who slightly toes out and it is genetic. Pictures would help but my guess is genetic, also what breed of dog bully or APBT, and how much does he weigh and how much did his parents weigh. If he is going to be a large dog like around 80 plus lbs you might want to consider putting him on a large breed or adult food. You do not want any breed to grow to fast because then they can get a lot of problems with structure.


He currently weighs 56 lbs at 5 1/2 months, regarding his parents sire 104 lbs & dam 88 lbs. I am beginning to suspect genetics, however if not corrected with age one small flaw wont matter not one bit. This boy is a loved family member... PS: he is a APBT not an American Bully


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

ranger said:


> He currently weighs 56 lbs at 5 1/2 months, regarding his parents sire 104 lbs & dam 88 lbs. I am beginning to suspect genetics, however if not corrected with age one small flaw wont matter not one bit. This boy is a loved family member... PS: he is a APBT not an American Bully


ok so you do have a large breed so I would go to a large breed puppy or adult food. At 5 months you should just go to large breed puppy and you can try and avoid issues later on. Now I do hate to break it to you you have an American Bully. APBT's are a medium breed at around 35-65lbs when you go over that weight they are an American Bully due. Even if you have paper work from ADBA or UKC that says he is an APBT at some point that dog was paper hung. It is very common and now it is not taboo people just understand what they have. Now you can have a large APBT show up but when you have large APBT generation after generation some where along the breeding you had another breed mixed in. Many ppl here thought they had an APBT but learned they were a bully and nothing wrong with it! Actually it should be a good thing so you can understand what type of dog you have.
Your puppy at 5 months is larger than any dog in my entire kennel and I have 18 dogs right now.

Now some large APBT's do happen but again you do not see generation after generation of large dogs like your said the dam and sire were all around 100lbs.

This is a dog I bred 9 years ago and he weighs 85-90lbs conditioned.
His sire was about 60lbs and dam was about 50lbs. Each puppy in the litter was about 50-55lbs max except for him. I know the pedigree on him and I know the dogs in at least the top 4 generation on each side since I was good friends with the owners of the dogs who bred his sire and dam. He had Carver and some Zebo in his ped but nothing that would create this size. Now he has been bred a few times to normal size APBT's and had produced normal dogs in the 50lb range every time, no more giants like him. So yes you can have a larger that is a genetic freak but when you see it generation after generation you know it was mixed and is now a bully.
This is Ruckus next to his sister and dam who were 50lbs at the time.









So put your pup on large breed puppy and genetics will take over as far as structure goes.


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