# Anyone know these lines?



## Chicago (Feb 27, 2009)

I'm getting a pup, but I dont want to mention the kennel out of respect. I am trying to learn more about the lines and wonder if anyone else has these lines in their pups or dogs.

The Mom sire has Edge/Nevada bloodlines..and the Mom dam has Gaff/York bloodlines.
The Father has Edge bloodlines

Can someone tell me what to expect from these lines?


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## smith family kennels (Jan 10, 2009)

amstaff bully style dogs. thats all I can tell you from the information you gave. It will depend on the sire and dam and their anestors.


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## SutterCane (Jan 9, 2009)

Chicago, 
Congratulations on getting a pup. The bloodlines your mentioning(I know about edge and gaff) are "American Bully" bloodlines. My dog has alot of Razors Edge in her. Bullies are different than American Pitbull Terriers. Bullies are bred to be shorter and very wide with exaggerated features(big head, extremely wide body, short). Some of these dogs are a real mess. I lucked out and there is balance in my dog. There are alot of health problems for many of the bullies. Before you buy this dog, make sure you do alot of research and make sure thats what you want. It's not a "pitbull." If at all possible see what the mom and dad look like. Good luck and keep us updated.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

Gaff is a showline...AKC registered dogs mostly. They have bred UKC showlines into them as well. Here's their link.GAFF KENNELS AKC/UKC Only the best dogs York was a respectable showline once but Ginny York went another direction...selecting for bigger dogs. They do look bullied out but you won't find no RE or Gotty in her dog's peds...so not really an AmBully line just bigger AST/APBT mixes. I believe Nevada is another showline, as alot of York fans mix these lines along with Gaff dogs. And of course the Razor's Edge is bully unless you are talking about dogs that came from their foundation dogs like throwin knuckles, paddington, etc. Once you see that Short Shot, that's where the mixing came into play  Hope this helps some


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## SutterCane (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to misinform. However, thanks Madblood, you kinda explained why my dog is full of bully bloodlines and doesn't look bullyish. And she doesn't have Short Shot in her pedigree.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

It's all good...I have a bit of all these bloodlines in my yard with the exception of Nevada. The only "true bully" I have is Charlotte and she does come from that Short Shot stuff. It's a strong line not always in a good way but definately can see it in the head of my girl. There's other linebred dogs like Gotty dogs that have those strong traits that are dominant in structure and appearance. It's a bitch trying to breed out what so many irresponsible breeders bred into them ....haha.


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## Chicago (Feb 27, 2009)

I've seen the mother and father and have reviewed their Peds...the mom and father dont look bully to me..but i know they have that in their backgrounds. Since the sire and dam dont look so short and bully-ish I'm expecting to have a more correct pup.

I will ask the breeder if I can post the pictures of the sire and dam, so that I can show you guys and maybe you can help predict the outcome of the pups.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

Just post up the pedigree or give the sire and dams registered name (if they are in a online ped database) it's probably easier to see how your dog was bred to determine how much actual "bully" is in there. If the parents don't look bully doesn't mean your pup won't be, depending on how tight they were bred, if at all. If your dog is scatterbred, it may be difficult to predict the outcome.


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## Chicago (Feb 27, 2009)

I tried to post the url..but it wont let me.

So here is the Sire name: Trigen Baloo Remy
Dam: Moore's Chakakhan Lady of Fire

I dont know if that will help


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

well I found the dam's pedigree but not the sire's. looks like a pinch of short shot with various other AKC/UKC dogs from Ruffian,Gaff,York and few others further back. the dam seems to be fairly small weighing only 49 lbs but nicely structured. The sire appears to be off heavier bully lines judging by the rest of the Trigen dogs but without his peds, it's hard to tell.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

Well I decide to come join the ped can easily be found on peds online you can look my girl up simply type in chakakhan in the search and she'll come up and from there click offspring to see the ped for that.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

MADBood said:


> well I found the dam's pedigree but not the sire's. looks like a pinch of short shot with various other AKC/UKC dogs from Ruffian,Gaff,York and few others further back. the dam seems to be fairly small weighing only 49 lbs but nicely structured. The sire appears to be off heavier bully lines judging by the rest of the Trigen dogs but without his peds, it's hard to tell.


You can find him by putting in Trigen Baloo Remy or you can simply click offspring on chaka. Baloo is off of blue remy who is a remy son (he does have some bigger bully style dogs behind him but he himself is very clean) I will personally be showing him in UKC to optain his title before that breeding takes place. I do not produce over done dogs and don't expect anything but clean offspring from this breeding. Remy is out of blue of ruckus stock all very clean nice ukc/akc blood.

As for chaka's ped her top as mentioned is edge/nevada and her bottom is gaff/york why she is not over done. As a focus for my breeding program I incorporate edge/gaff/nevada with a touch of larums and a touch of orbans to ensure all my dogs are clean enough to participate in both conformation and weight pull. Anyone wondering what those pups will look like you need only go to my ladies page and taka a look at levy as she is a product of the same style breeding (bully/show cross).

I can't yet post pics so if you'd like to see pictures I'll have to make 13 more post lol so give me about ten minutes to post some pics of baloo and chaka! BTW Chaka is one major from her champion status!


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## Roxy_Nie (Oct 10, 2008)

You can post pictures through attachment.....


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

Thanks Whitney wouldn't let me do it that way either sigh...


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

SutterCane said:


> Chicago,
> Congratulations on getting a pup. The bloodlines your mentioning(I know about edge and gaff) are "American Bully" bloodlines. My dog has a lot of Razors Edge in her. Bullies are different than American Pit bull Terriers. Bullies are bred to be shorter and very wide with exaggerated features(big head, extremely wide body, short). Some of these dogs are a real mess. I lucked out and there is balance in my dog. There are a lot of health problems for many of the bullies. Before you buy this dog, make sure you do a lot of research and make sure that's what you want. It's not a "pit bull." If at all possible see what the mom and dad look like. Good luck and keep us updated.


Actually she's not buying the pup she's suppose to be co-owning the pup with me. I don't have anything over done or genetically flawed on my yard all my dogs are in the process of being health tested of which some of my dogs are already health tested. Many over here know me, some are just now going to get to know me but one thing about me is I stand behind any and every pup/dog sold from us rather I produced it or not. I'm not one of those folks that are just out to make a dollar as I already discussed with Racheal. This is something I love to do (breeding, showing etc...) Alot of folks tend to speak on things before they acutally have the facts. I don't blame Racheal for wanting more information but I wish she'd expressed her concern with "me" prior to taking it to a board. The purpose of purchasing from a breeder (IMO) is to have someone there to help you with the new family member rather it be just getting the pup adjusted or heavier stuff like working out behavior issue any even things like refering back to for help with future breeding plans and such. If you can't rely on your breeder for help then you should not purchase/acquire a pup from that breeder!


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

redsky said:


> Actually she's not buying the pup she's suppose to be co-owning the pup with me. I don't have anything over done or genetically flawed on my yard all my dogs are in the process of being health tested of which some of my dogs are already health tested. Many over here know me, some are just now going to get to know me but one thing about me is I stand behind any and every pup/dog sold from us rather I produced it or not. I'm not one of those folks that are just out to make a dollar as I already discussed with Racheal. This is something I love to do (breeding, showing etc...) Alot of folks tend to speak on things before they acutally have the facts. I don't blame Racheal for wanting more information but I wish she'd expressed her concern with "me" prior to taking it to a board. The purpose of purchasing from a breeder (IMO) is to have someone there to help you with the new family member rather it be just getting the pup adjusted or heavier stuff like working out behavior issue any even things like refering back to for help with future breeding plans and such. If you can't rely on your breeder for help then you should not purchase/acquire a pup from that breeder!


+1 for a good person.:woof:


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

redsky said:


> Actually she's not buying the pup she's suppose to be co-owning the pup with me. I don't have anything over done or genetically flawed on my yard all my dogs are in the process of being health tested of which some of my dogs are already health tested. Many over here know me, some are just now going to get to know me but one thing about me is I stand behind any and every pup/dog sold from us rather I produced it or not. I'm not one of those folks that are just out to make a dollar as I already discussed with Racheal. This is something I love to do (breeding, showing etc...) Alot of folks tend to speak on things before they acutally have the facts. I don't blame Racheal for wanting more information but I wish she'd expressed her concern with "me" prior to taking it to a board. The purpose of purchasing from a breeder (IMO) is to have someone there to help you with the new family member rather it be just getting the pup adjusted or heavier stuff like working out behavior issue any even things like refering back to for help with future breeding plans and such. If you can't rely on your breeder for help then you should not purchase/acquire a pup from that breeder!


I personally don't see anything wrong with getting a second opinion but I agree that she should have addressed these questions and concerns with you (breeder) beforehand. If you stick around long enough, you'll notice that there are some educated and passionate people on this board. Most of us do not go and bash kennels before we know all the facts. Gopitbull is one of the better pitbull forums on the net, IMO.

I admire your ethical breeding practices, however, every dog will have flaws. Maybe not anything serious but some. If you focus too much on meeting conformation...you will sacrifice movement and ability. Many "showdogs" have a tendancy to be displastic, thus needed OFA testing every generation. If you focus on working qualities...you will compromise conformation. This is what seperates the true bulldog from the AST, same goes for the "bullies". I much rather have a dog that can work than one that looks "pretty" but that's just me. Think about this, how many gamebred APBTs were ever health tested? I think purpose defines the dog, not necassirily the show ring, where human judgement decides whether or not your dog is a good representation of the breed. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with showdogs, I'm just throwing in my two cents.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

I actually already know most of the people here lol, I think you need to get to know me a lil better and I do plan to stick around. I not only participate in conformation but also weight pull, my focus is not only on structure but temperament, endurance etc. I am one that doesn't limit myself lol. I do appreciate your two cents though.

Oh I did want to comment on your statement about "many" show dogs being displastic that is actually not the case there isn't even enough statistical data to make a comment like that. I'm not sure if you meant show vs game or what but how many game breeders or show breeders for that matter are actually testing? Now from my own research and conversations with both ofa and penn hip American pit bull terriers and Amstaffs are still very low on negative results!


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

Question Mad are you implying my dogs can't work because they look nice or are you speaking in general terms? I have been in this breed since my teenage years I've probably done more research then most in this breed. I started out with redboy, jeep and colby blood and later decided I wanted to go in a different direction. I can't stand for folks to treat me as if I am brand new so sorry if I come off like a spit fire just tends to be my trait. The one thing I have done in my life is always always research and improve what I am doing! So for one to imply that some just simply like pretty dogs erks the hell out of me because you have no idea the ability of any of my babies and that's also called a stereotype something else that gets under my skin! I don't speak on things unless I have enough information to do so and I don't expect the same from others I guess.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

redsky said:


> I actually already know most of the people here lol, I think you need to get to know me a lil better and I do plan to stick around. I not only participate in conformation but also weight pull, my focus is not only on structure but temperament, endurance etc. I am one that doesn't limit myself lol. I do appreciate your two cents though.
> 
> Oh I did want to comment on your statement about "many" show dogs being displastic that is actually not the case there isn't even enough statistical data to make a comment like that. I'm not sure if you meant show vs game or what but how many game breeders or show breeders for that matter are actually testing? Now from my own research and conversations with both ofa and penn hip American pit bull terriers and Amstaffs are still very low on negative results!


You are correct, not many folks health test on both sides of the fence. It is true that anytime you heavily linebreed (as the case with "many" showlines) you will encounter health issues. I just don't think getting a "good" or "excellent" OFA result, makes your dog flawless. It seemed as if you were suggesting your dogs were flawless...which would mean they were perfect. When you outcross as much as some of your dogs have been, then you bring "vigor" into the program..limiting health issues. Though inbreeding occurs in nature, so linebreeding isn't always bad either. It depends on who was doing the selecting and what they were selecting for. Many "bullies" however do have H.D. that is why not many health test. Do you not incorporate "bully" lines into your program? Now I don't know the exact statistics on this since bully breeders don't really test them but I'm sure it's a high %. After having a couple of litters myself (yes, some bully lines too), I have been humbled on the outcomes....then again I see every little imperfection in my dogs. I just overlook them if everything else is up to par...which is athletic and working potential. I just don't think you can ever reach perfection in any breeding program but that's not an excuse for not trying either, ya know? 

I checked out your website for myself and like I said before, I admire your ethics. I wasn't suggesting anything negative about your program, I appologize if I offended you. I welcome you here, we need more responsible breeders ,like yourself, these days.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

redsky said:


> Question Mad are you implying my dogs can't work because they look nice or are you speaking in general terms? I have been in this breed since my teenage years I've probably done more research then most in this breed. I started out with redboy, jeep and colby blood and later decided I wanted to go in a different direction. I can't stand for folks to treat me as if I am brand new so sorry if I come off like a spit fire just tends to be my trait. The one thing I have done in my life is always always research and improve what I am doing! So for one to imply that some just simply like pretty dogs erks the hell out of me because you have no idea the ability of any of my babies and that's also called a stereotype something else that gets under my skin! I don't speak on things unless I have enough information to do so and I don't expect the same from others I guess.


I'm glad I didn't read this before I made my last reply....haha. Um, how the heck was I supposed to know who you were? I just answered the OP question to the best of my knowlege. I was only giving an opinion, which is what these forums are all about!!! For all I knew you could have been trolling around. I see this one person join a board and start to ask questions about a breeder, then the next day the breeder is on here  Look at it from my point of view. You didn't even bother to introduce yourself in the appropriate place. Like I said, sorry if I offended you.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

MADBood said:


> You are correct, not many folks health test on both sides of the fence. It is true that anytime you heavily linebreed (as the case with "many" showlines) you will encounter health issues. I just don't think getting a "good" or "excellent" OFA result, makes your dog flawless. It seemed as if you were suggesting your dogs were flawless...which would mean they were perfect. When you outcross as much as some of your dogs have been, then you bring "vigor" into the program..limiting health issues. Though inbreeding occurs in nature, so linebreeding isn't always bad either. It depends on who was doing the selecting and what they were selecting for. Many "bullies" however do have H.D. that is why not many health test. Do you not incorporate "bully" lines into your program? Now I don't know the exact statistics on this since bully breeders don't really test them but I'm sure it's a high %. After having a couple of litters myself (yes, some bully lines too), I have been humbled on the outcomes....then again I see every little imperfection in my dogs. I just overlook them if everything else is up to par...which is athletic and working potential. I just don't think you can ever reach perfection in any breeding program but that's not an excuse for not trying either, ya know?
> 
> I checked out your website for myself and like I said before, I admire your ethics. I wasn't suggesting anything negative about your program, I appologize if I offended you. I welcome you here, we need more responsible breeders ,like yourself, these days.


I thank you for the kind words and by no means was I implying my dogs are perfect! There are absolutely no perfect dogs I was simply stating I do breed to the written structure no matter the style breeding it is. I do agree that the bullier dogs have more health issues (from the heavier bone and weight) which is why all my dogs are kept at as minimal a weight as deemed healthy, proper bone growth is a biggie with me! I agree perfection is always the goal even if it is out of reach you can still hope and strive for nothing but the best! I am not a big one for inbreeding although I do strongly believe in line breeding and yes even with the parents passing you can still produce a defect I just think knowing helps eliminate the possibility of breeding two carriers. One of my males (midas) as had every ancester in at least the first four generations health tested so in his case I am very sound on what he will produce as far as health goes.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

MADBood said:


> I'm glad I didn't read this before I made my last reply....haha. Um, how the heck was I supposed to know who you were? I just answered the OP question to the best of my knowlege. I was only giving an opinion, which is what these forums are all about!!! For all I knew you could have been trolling around. I see this one person join a board and start to ask questions about a breeder, then the next day the breeder is on here  Look at it from my point of view. You didn't even bother to introduce yourself in the appropriate place. Like I said, sorry if I offended you.


Pology accepted and I appologize as well not only for jumping the gun but also for not properly introducing myself but honestly I didn't see a forum for introductions which is why I just started posting lol. Plus my main reason for joining was to see what was going on. I got an email asking if it was okay to post up my dogs so of course my instinct was to come join make sure we were not bashed/slammed or slandered in any way. Again sorry for not introducing myself and if someone tells me where to post one I will gladly go and introduce us and our dogs now!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Introduction Forum - Go Pitbull .com - Pitbull Forums


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

wow a diferrnce in opinions and points of views and no one surdes or got out of hand...... points coming to both of you


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

redsky said:


> Pology accepted and I appologize as well not only for jumping the gun but also for not properly introducing myself


 It's water under the bridge, no hard feelings.  Now, how bout some pics of your dogs?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Chicago said:


> I'm getting a pup, but I dont want to mention the kennel out of respect. I am trying to learn more about the lines and wonder if anyone else has these lines in their pups or dogs.
> 
> The Mom sire has Edge/Nevada bloodlines..and the Mom dam has Gaff/York bloodlines.
> The Father has Edge bloodlines
> ...


I have Nevada/Larum/Edge dogs.

Nevada crossed with alot of the older edge before they turned bully so that why the dogs prob don't look over done.

I like to have that older edge thrown in because as someone already mentioned you get to much line breeding in these show lines and defects start to pop up. The out cross with the older edge gives you the solid look the UKC is looking for with also throwing in a bit more to the gene pool. I would expect a very nice looking show dog with a great possibility on the track ( just depending on each pups personality and drive. )


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

I think I can post some pics now lol but I did also make an album. I'll do a separate thread for the pics. BTW I have some of the older edge and a couple with new edge (1 remyline dog-goes back to ruckus blood and also shaw's brutus etc 1 bully girl with some of the newer edge blood but she's clean a lil thick but not like easty westy etc well off to post pics lol).


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