# I'm DONE with Bullies. TOO MANY Health Issues!!!



## GTR

I have now come to the firm belief that bully bloodlines are a health nightmare. Not just annoying, a NIGHTMARE.

I have spent $1100 in surgery and vet costs for Vegas's life saving care for his rectal prolapse due to a genetic issue with his rectum. He may be incontinent the rest of his life. He also has issues with his feet and joints. I'm currently supplementing him with calcium and it seems to be helping. 
Camelot bloodline

Indi had issues with horrific allergies and infection problems. I spent $1200 on her as a pup to raise for show, but she ended up with an under bite that didn't correct. Ended up turning into yet another massive headache. She had a different infection every other month it seemed like... I returned her to the breeder. 
Gotti/RE

Vaia, a little pup my father in law owns seemingly became crippled today when I took the dogs out to walk. Looks like her ankles are too weak to support her weight. They bow out and she collapses when she tries to walk. It is really sad. We might have to put her down if supplements don't work. It is ridiculous. Another example of "bad breeding" I guess. I'm starting to believe now that if you breed a bully at all it is a _bad breeding_.
RE/Camelot

The only two dogs that are normal are Trance and Tyce! Trance is scatterbred and Tyce has no papers! And they are the healthiest, most awesome pits around! Ha! You most certainly DONT GET what you PAY FOR! I will never own another dog out of Razor's Edge, Gotti, or Camelot. I have decided that the next time I buy a dog, -and it will be a long while- it will be from a healthy, working bloodline. I want to get into a sport with a dog and take them all the way. I have a contact with a local Schutzhund club and I'd like to get involved. Not sure if I'll look into a pit bull pup from working lines to get into it, or buy a shepherd breed, Doberman, or Rottweiler.

I understand that all breeds have their own issues that commonly occur, and I also understand that proper care and nutrition have a very important impact on the health and development of dogs, but based on my experience with heavily-bred bully dogs is that they are garbage in the health department and have no drive. Its like owning a Jaguar, while it might look real nice and turn heads, its expensive to buy and maintain and it's not reliable AT ALL. Friggin' headache.

_I just had to get that off my chest. I have truly had it. _I have made all the necessary mistakes to realize that people just want money and will do and say anything to get it. Bully breeders for the most part are the pinnacle of this phenomenon...they really are.

I have thoroughly and certainly decided that bully dogs are NOT for ME. Nothing like the childhood pit bulls that I remember....not in the least little bit. Totally separate breeds.
Poor Vaia!


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## Patch-O-Pits

I'm so sorry you are going through a rough time with your dog. I hope everything works out ok.


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## GTR

Thanks Patch...it's really frustrating, and I feel bad for the dogs! It's not their fault they were bred that way....just makes me feel so bad.


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## Lvis

wow that sucks , i wish the best for u in the future

how big where these bullies?u have pix?


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## GTR

Lvis said:


> wow that sucks , i wish the best for u in the future
> 
> how big where these bullies?u have pix?


Vegas (Buckskin) Trance (Chocolate) Trance is very healthy.









Indi


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## Sampsons Dad

If the English bull dog is a health problem on legs ...why would people realize that the bullies will have the same issues?


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## GTR

Sampsons Dad said:


> If the English bull dog is a health problem on legs ...why would people realize that the bullies will have the same issues?


I don't understand what you mean....?


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## Sampsons Dad

GTR said:


> I don't understand what you mean....?


Basically the structure of most bully pits are the same as most english bull dogs. And if you have ever spent a little time in a vet hospital, as an employee,
you will see terrible health issues from bull dogs.


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## GTR

Sampsons Dad said:


> Basically the structure of most bully pits are the same as most english bull dogs. And if you have ever spent a little time in a vet hospital, as an employee,
> you will see terrible health issues from bull dogs.


Oh no, none of these dogs are /that/ kind of bully. They are just the standard bully type dogs that are overly bred and recklessly bred.

But yes, they do have a lot of problems like the EB. Breathing issues, structural issues.....etc etc....

I'm pretty much over my American Bully fixation, pretty dogs yes, but they just did not turn out to be the kind of pet I was looking for.


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## Sampsons Dad

Check out the hips of the tested bull dogs
OFA: Hip Dysplasia Statistics


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## American_Pit13

As with any breed it matters how your dog has been bred and the care you breeder took in what they produced. Sadly there are alot of really bad bully breeders.


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## erik

well them r some real good lookin dogs u have there


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## dixieland

Sampsons Dad said:


> Basically the structure of most bully pits are the same as most english bull dogs. And if you have ever spent a little time in a vet hospital, as an employee,
> you will see terrible health issues from bull dogs.


I have seen some good reputable bully breeders that health test and breed a good sound bully.Yeah they are few and far between,but they're out there.The ones that I've seen try to stick to the apbt standard for the most part.Just think about a bigger apbt and that's what they are.
It seems to me that when you get into the smaller versions is where you run into your health problems.

GTR,when did you get your dog?I'm asking because it seems to me that by looking at this dog that it would seem to me pretty likely that he would get problems with his legs.


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## GTR

dixieland said:


> I have seen some good reputable bully breeders that health test and breed a good sound bully.Yeah they are few and far between,but they're out there.The ones that I've seen try to stick to the apbt standard for the most part.Just think about a bigger apbt and that's what they are.
> It seems to me that when you get into the smaller versions is where you run into your health problems.
> 
> GTR,when did you get your dog?I'm asking because it seems to me that by looking at this dog that it would seem to me pretty likely that he would get problems with his legs.


When I got him at 8 weeks, he was normal looking! Just a cute little chunk of cuteness. He was fine until he had a growth spurt and I noticed him starting to get funky, but I didn't realize the extent of it until I posted pics up here and everyone was like "hey, you might want to look into preventative measures to keep it from getting worse" etc.


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## dixieland

GTR said:


> When I got him at 8 weeks, he was normal looking! Just a cute little chunk of cuteness. He was fine until he had a growth spurt and I noticed him starting to get funky, but I didn't realize the extent of it until I posted pics up here and everyone was like "hey, you might want to look into preventative measures to keep it from getting worse" etc.


ok gotcha.Darn,sorry to hear that.I know it sucks to get attached to something and have them not turn out the way you hoped.
I'm glad he has someone like you to look after him though.Someone that cares for him.


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## bahamutt99

I've been helplessly muttering that bully breeders need to do some intensive health-testing with all the money they get for puppies. This is why. I'm very sorry you have had these experiences. You obviously take good care of your dogs, so I hope that when you're ready for another you're able to find a high-quality breeder and get the dog you really deserve.


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## 9361

I'm sorry for your problems and thank you for sharing your personal experience with the breed. I completely agree with most bullies you are not getting what you paid for. There are way too many bad breeders out there. I have seen some very nice correct bullies.. but they are few and far between. There are too many breeders out there breeding for looks and money and pumping out sickly dogs. It's very sad.. because the foundation the breed is being built on is crumbling. Unless bully breeders step up and start breeding structurally sound dogs... I see a seriously unhealthy breed on the horizon. Most people think I hate Bullies, it's not true, like you said it is not the dogs fault. I hate the breeders that breed them so structurally unsound for the very purpose of looks.


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## GTR

dixieland said:


> ok gotcha.Darn,sorry to hear that.I know it sucks to get attached to something and have them not turn out the way you hoped.
> I'm glad he has someone like you to look after him though.Someone that cares for him.


Yeah, he's a real sweet pup and all he's been through with the surgery and all, he needs me. No one else would be willing to put up with all the poop and his special needs. :/ But I hope that he makes a good recovery and is able to live a normal adult life.


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## Black Rabbit

Oh I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles. That first pup looks so sad.  I really hope the supplements can help. Keep your head up, I wish you nothing but the best.


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## Lost_Kaus89

Man that sucks to hear hopefully most bully breeders will start to wake up and get the damage they are doing to some of these dogs it's ashame your dogs are really cute too.


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## DarkMoon

I'm so sorry about all your troubles GTR. I do have to thank you for putting all the time, effort, and money into him though. Many people would have turned their backs on the poor thing a while ago.

The reasons you listed are the reason why I'm a firm believer in health testing all breeding dogs. There is no reason why you should have to go through this. If people only thought about what they bring into this world over fads and money. My heart goes out to you.


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## performanceknls

Trying to find a good find bully breeder that actually health tests and does not have deformed dogs is hard. With the amount of health problems you think they would start health testing more. I am sure there are good breeders but they are few and far between. Many are train wrecks and I have heard of many dropping dead form heart issues too.

Sorry your having such a hard time with your dogs it is never fair that the dogs have to suffer because of bad breeding. Hope your other dogs do better.


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## StaffyDaddy

sorry that you have had all these health and financial problems with your dogs. the up side is that they have an owner that would go the extra step for them, but this is just one scenario where it proves testing needs to be done with all breeding dogs, like darkmoon stated.


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## Black Rabbit

I agree with you both they really need to be doing health tests on them all.
So sorry for your poor babies I really hope you can find some thing that will help them and give them some relief.


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## bluefamily

the silver lining is the dogs you got have a wonderful chance, most folks would have given them up already. But don't forget if your breeder says theyt "health test" ask for the paperwork OFA hips (or PENN hip), knees, patella, heart, cerf and baer tests all confirm the structural soundness. Am so sorry for you heavy heart but thanks be they got you as an owner. You have earned your stars. PS. Not all of us AmBully owners are bad and have no paperwork to prove the health of our dogs.


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## bJb

*Bully problems*

I'm sorry to hear about your dogs. I hope they all make speed recoveries.


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## Chaos4ever

So sorry your dogs are going through all this. Atleast now you not what to look and ask for if you ever get another dog.


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## 9361

Most the byb's I've asked about health testing... said "yeah they've been the the vet and had all their shots" hahaha I have got this same answer if the dogs had papers or not....


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## gamer

GTR said:


> Oh no, none of these dogs are /that/ kind of bully. They are just the standard bully type dogs that are overly bred and recklessly bred.
> 
> But yes, they do have a lot of problems like the EB. Breathing issues, structural issues.....etc etc....
> 
> I'm pretty much over my American Bully fixation, pretty dogs yes, but they just did not turn out to be the kind of pet I was looking for.


I consider the Bully breed a bad experiment. They tried to make a breed and it was a flop health wise so why not just stop breeding them but that is just me now everyone will come jump my butt lol.

Sorry about your troubles just get a real APBT and your chances are better for a healthy dog.


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## davidfitness83

gamer said:


> I consider the Bully breed a bad experiment. They tried to make a breed and it was a flop health wise so why not just stop breeding them but that is just me now everyone will come jump my butt lol.
> 
> Sorry about your troubles just get a real APBT and your chances are better for a healthy dog.


The APBT and the bully are two different breeds. There are ignorant breeders that advertise them as pits but everyone knows they are not the same. At this point is unfair to say to someone to get a real apbt because the APBT does apply to the BUlly nor does the BUlly apply to the APBT. Generally speaking working dogs that are culled for function tend to be on the healthier side however, the original duty for the creation of the APBT is illegal in all 50 states so that only leaves other a few avenues to work the dog. You can get a abda dog with a ped with a bunch of x's on the ped but that doesn't mean the dog is healthy or that it will not have problems down the road. The only way to be sure and it isn't even a full guarantee is to have the breeding pair tested at the proper age for genetic issues and chiropractic disorders that plague the breed. Tell me how many APBT breeders can you name that actually have this on hand? I know there are some but I can't stand when people use the whole get a real pit when they talk about Bullies.


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## reddoggy

gamer said:


> I consider the Bully breed a bad experiment. They tried to make a breed and it was a flop health wise so why not just stop breeding them but that is just me now everyone will come jump my butt lol.
> 
> Sorry about your troubles just get a real APBT and your chances are better for a healthy dog.


REAL bad experiment! Dude, I'll some up MY horror tail in just a couple sentences. I ended up with a really shotty dog with more muscle, strength, drive, and better appearance than my GBAPBT. Oh and worse... HE'S BLUE!
OMG, worst thing that ever happened to us, I don't know if my family is ever gonna recover, emotionally, from the scars this healthy loving dog will leave.

OP, sorry to hear about your troubles. This is a perfect example of why you're supposed to pay close attention to pedigrees.


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## ralford08

Pay close attention to pedigrees and get something jeep, redboy, gator, eli, etc. and you'll come out with a lot healthier dog.


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## davidfitness83

ralford08 said:


> Pay close attention to pedigrees and get something jeep, redboy, gator, eli, etc. and you'll come out with a lot healthier dog.


Yea you are right because all those bloodlines are 100% health tested :clap:


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## reddoggy

Sure sure sure, NO APBTs are unhealthy and have too tight of a pedigree at all. This thread is lame. Look, I'm not being hypersensitive here. There are health problems in EVERY breed. As much as we'd love to believe that pit bulls are invincible, they aren't. Game dogs back in the day, they weren't either. I need to dig up that article...
Can't remember which dog or handler it was, but this guy was touring to champ his dog out while the dogs liver was failing! 
With bullies, the same principles apply. Healthy dogs make healthy dogs. Too tight of a ped with out testing means you just might run into complications, poodle or pit bull. 
There are plenty of bully breeders who health test, there are plenty who don't and still come up with healthy dogs, and then there are major fails. 
Bullies are here to stay, get used to it guys


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## StaffyDaddy

reddoggy said:


> Sure sure sure, NO APBTs are unhealthy and have too tight of a pedigree at all. This thread is lame. Look, I'm not being hypersensitive here. There are health problems in EVERY breed. As much as we'd love to believe that pit bulls are invincible, they aren't. Game dogs back in the day, they weren't either. I need to dig up that article...
> Can't remember which dog or handler it was, but this guy was touring to champ his dog out while the dogs liver was failing!
> With bullies, the same principles apply. Healthy dogs make healthy dogs. Too tight of a ped with out testing means you just might run into complications, poodle or pit bull.
> There are plenty of bully breeders who health test, there are plenty who don't and still come up with healthy dogs, and then there are major fails.
> Bullies are here to stay, get used to it guys


I think there was pretty much one comment that was anti bully.. LOL

but for the most part I agree with you. Dobes have the blood disorder, EBs have joint problems, my statement was that most dogs dogs should be health tested. ESPECIALLY show dogs. Not that I don't think pets should be healthy too, I just think more people should take after reputable breeders, no matter what the breed.


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## reddoggy

We're on the same page man. I think it's silly for people to discriminate over a few extreme cases. The bully community here in AZ is pretty tight, we all know eachother and we all know eachothers dogs and their peds to the T and I can't think of a single one with ANY health issues.


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## GTR

Thanks everyone for your input!

I have learned my lesson and learned it well. I did pedigree research, but to be honest, thats where my research ended. I didn't look into the health history of the parents or their offspring. I looked at the dogs, they looked healthy, so I bought the pups! Even Indi, whose mother was a UKC CH was frought with issues. I'm done with show breeds. I have learned from this site that the original APBT can be the beautiful, healthy, energetic companion I look for in a dog.

-And Conformation Champions up front DO NOT MEAN QUALITY DOGS!!

Trance has turned out to be a wonderful dog. I want more _like him._ ;P


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## Sampsons Dad

So I'm going to ask all of you to name the bully kennels that health test AND include the results on the website.


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## davidfitness83

Sampsons Dad said:


> So I'm going to ask all of you to name the bully kennels that health test AND include the results on the website.


Geronimo
UKC CH Chavez's Last Stand Geronimo
OFA-Cardiac Normal / Patella normal/DNA/Microchipped

out of chavez pits, not all of them are tested but this looks like a start no?

Chavez Pits

nobody is arguing what is better or worse but the point is apbt need stop to stop hating on the american bullies period. Two different breeds no need to compare so they need to move on!!


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## D.J

> I consider the Bully breed a bad experiment. They tried to make a breed and it was a flop health wise so why not just stop breeding them but that is just me now everyone will come jump my butt lol.
> 
> Sorry about your troubles just get a real APBT and your chances are better for a healthy dog.


:goodpost:


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## GTR

Well, the point of this thread is to warn others interested in the American Bully, specifically those bloodlines I mentioned, to do their homework, and do extra credit, because what you don't know, will hurt you in the end.


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## NinaThePitbull

i can only find solace that this experience has educated you SO much on the issues you have come across. You seem to be an outstanding dog owner with patience and a love for learning. I hope to see more of you in this forum and would be honored to chat with you from time to time, hoping to gain some of your experience and knowledge.

damn, you must have grown so much stronger and wiser .


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## Elvisfink

First to the original poster. I’m so sorry you and the pup are having to go through such a messed up ordeal. I agree with Lisa, finding a credible bully breeder that is willing to back what they breed is very hard to find, but they are out there. With that said I DON’T have an issue with Bullies at all, but many websites post photos of their Sirs and Dams that are structurally a mess, but proudly state head size and weight. Worst than that many of these flashy sites are nothing more than an illusion for a BYB. This issue is not solely a Bully issue, you’ll find this with any popular breed when people see an opportunity to make money. I truly believe the biggest problem with Bullies are the number of inexperienced or uninformed people involved with the breed at a time when the breed is still developing and they still don’t have a consist standard that breeders are adhering to. There’s a lot of really nice looking Bullies that are owned here on gp and in photo posted from show. Most of the one I like may be larger but, have correct confirmation and not mixed with other breeds. There are a tone of Bully website calling their dogs pit bulls with photos posted with dogs that have obviously been crossed with English Bull Dog, Dog De Bordeaux and what type of Mastiff you want to name. Again not an issue if you’re calling them Bullies and you are willing to accept the heath issues that those other breeds are going to add to your dog. I feel Bullies are still a developing as a breed and it going to take a lot of work to get them standardized. JMO!


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## Sydney

GTR said:


> -And Conformation Champions up front DO NOT MEAN QUALITY DOGS!!
> 
> Trance has turned out to be a wonderful dog. I want more _like him._ ;P


No they don't!! The last show I went to I watched a black dog with incredibly bad elbows take second place only because her handler knew how to hold her to take the weight off her front legs. I was appalled that the judge did not even see this. The previous show/previous judge didn't even place this dog! So just cause a dog can accumulate points based on a certain persons brief perspective doesn't mean much (to me), and personally I think some people put too much stock in show dogs.

I would rather see a dog with working titles...generally if a dog can perform and out perform the rest of the stuff will fall into place.

Bad Hips, Elbows, Eyes bet that dog won't be able to perform...or out perform another dog that doesn't have these failing qualities.


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## Mcleod15

Sampsons Dad said:


> So I'm going to ask all of you to name the bully kennels that health test AND include the results on the website.


I work with a guy who knows the owner of this kennel,

LEGENDARY BULLIES - OFFICIAL WEBSITE


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## GTR

Sydney said:


> No they don't!! The last show I went to I watched a black dog with incredibly bad elbows take second place only because her handler knew how to hold her to take the weight off her front legs. I was appalled that the judge did not even see this. The previous show/previous judge didn't even place this dog! So just cause a dog can accumulate points based on a certain persons brief perspective doesn't mean much (to me), and personally I think some people put too much stock in show dogs.
> 
> I would rather see a dog with working titles...generally if a dog can perform and out perform the rest of the stuff will fall into place.
> 
> Bad Hips, Elbows, Eyes bet that dog won't be able to perform...or out perform another dog that doesn't have these failing qualities.


And you know if that dog gets some titles under it's belt, it's probably going to be bred ALOT. I am willing to bet there are a lot of show dogs that are inferior in health and temperament that are being bred simply to bank on a conformation title.


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## Sydney

GTR said:


> And you know if that dog gets some titles under it's belt, it's probably going to be bred ALOT. I am willing to bet there are a lot of show dogs that are inferior in health and temperament that are being bred simply to bank on a conformation title.


I feel for ya bud, and when you are ready I really do hope you find what you are looking for cause dogs are not disposable, and should not be main sources of income or flashy arm candy as some may believe...They are relationships, companions (the good with the bad) As you have had to find out the hard way. They do not give up on us no matter what awful things we do to them or make them into just to fulfill some selfish goal.


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## Sampsons Dad

Mcleod15 said:


> I work with a guy who knows the owner of this kennel,
> 
> LEGENDARY BULLIES - OFFICIAL WEBSITE


I didnt see any mention of health testing.
All I saw was a bunch of typos and dogs next to expensive cars!....lol

plus kaka music


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## bahamutt99

Mcleod15 said:


> I work with a guy who knows the owner of this kennel,
> 
> LEGENDARY BULLIES - OFFICIAL WEBSITE


The call was for bully breeders who health-test. I didn't see that on there, but I'm willing to have it pointed out to me since I don't always have patience for flash websites. 

To the thread in general, I don't really care what you breed or feed. I don't see the sense behind not health-testing _any_ breeding. And hey, if you know the dog has a heritable problem which doesn't fall under the standard OFA health certifications -- severe allergies, mange, soft palate issues, a kinked tail, monorchidism, etc -- it is still your job to disclose that to any puppy buyers, or better yet, *don't* breed the dang dog.

All lines of APBT or bully carry the same potential for some kind of health issue. I know some folks who were going to use a well-known [] GRCH stud, but didn't because he always seemed to look like he was suffering from skin problems. Lo and behold that dog dropped dead at a relatively young age, but not before having his nuts bred off. The same flaws we find in show/bully breeders are also in breeders of old-school APBTs. Kennel blindness, apathy, "out of sight, out of mind," and so on. *Every* breeder owes it to the breed to thoroughly investigate each dog they plan on using. It wouldn't be a bad bet to lay odds that most don't.


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## Mcleod15

Sampsons Dad said:


> I didnt see any mention of health testing.
> All I saw was a bunch of typos and dogs next to expensive cars!....lol
> 
> plus kaka music





bahamutt99 said:


> The call was for bully breeders who health-test. I didn't see that on there, but I'm willing to have it pointed out to me since I don't always have patience for flash websites.
> 
> .


Well kind of going off what I've heard from people(that are into the AmBully) that do business with him, the web site may not state it, but from what I've heard he breeds nothing but good quality dogs that are tested, take it for what its worth.


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## NinaThePitbull

Sampsons Dad said:


> I didnt see any mention of health testing.
> All I saw was a bunch of typos and dogs next to expensive cars!....lol
> 
> plus kaka music


yeah, where was the health testing info?

looks like a website made by 15 year olds.
havent look into it enough to speak neatively on the kennel itself they might have good dogs, Im not hating, just didnt see any proof of health testing and dont see what a dog has to do with a luxury car.


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## Sydney

NinaThePitbull said:


> yeah, where was the health testing info?
> 
> and dont see what a dog has to do with a luxury car.


It doesn't they are just trying to relate the dogs as status symbols, and maybe it helps someone think they are "worth" all the money they cost since they would mentally associate them with high dollar Bentleys??

I personally like to think that legends are made...not born.


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## GTR

Sydney said:


> I personally like to think that legends are made...not born.


:goodpost:


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## gamer

Sydney said:


> No they don't!! The last show I went to I watched a black dog with incredibly bad elbows take second place only because her handler knew how to hold her to take the weight off her front legs. I was appalled that the judge did not even see this. The previous show/previous judge didn't even place this dog! So just cause a dog can accumulate points based on a certain persons brief perspective doesn't mean much (to me), and personally I think some people put too much stock in show dogs.
> 
> I would rather see a dog with working titles...generally if a dog can perform and out perform the rest of the stuff will fall into place.
> 
> Bad Hips, Elbows, Eyes bet that dog won't be able to perform...or out perform another dog that doesn't have these failing qualities.


On one of the bully shows the judge was telling them how to hide a bad bite by flashing it or some sheet like that lol


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## vdubbinya

i've always adored indi. you gave her back huh. i will miss seeing her. lovely dog. Sorry for all ur problems.


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## reddoggy

I almost pulled a "Shane" for this thread.... meaning I almost posted a pic of my healthy line/double bred bully LMAO


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## vdubbinya

sigh........everyones a comedian these days.


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## reddoggy

I make myself laugh. I think I am SOOOOO funny, LMAO


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## StaffyDaddy

Elvisfink said:


> First to the original poster. I'm so sorry you and the pup are having to go through such a messed up ordeal. I agree with Lisa, finding a credible bully breeder that is willing to back what they breed is very hard to find, but they are out there. With that said I DON'T have an issue with Bullies at all, but many websites post photos of their Sirs and Dams that are structurally a mess, but proudly state head size and weight. Worst than that many of these flashy sites are nothing more than an illusion for a BYB. This issue is not solely a Bully issue, you'll find this with any popular breed when people see an opportunity to make money. I truly believe the biggest problem with Bullies are the number of inexperienced or uninformed people involved with the breed at a time when the breed is still developing and they still don't have a consist standard that breeders are adhering to. There's a lot of really nice looking Bullies that are owned here on gp and in photo posted from show. Most of the one I like may be larger but, have correct confirmation and not mixed with other breeds. There are a tone of Bully website calling their dogs pit bulls with photos posted with dogs that have obviously been crossed with English Bull Dog, Dog De Bordeaux and what type of Mastiff you want to name. Again not an issue if you're calling them Bullies and you are willing to accept the heath issues that those other breeds are going to add to your dog. I feel Bullies are still a developing as a breed and it going to take a lot of work to get them standardized. JMO!


:goodpost::clap:


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## Indigo Bully Connection

That's a real bummer. I hope you find the dog that fits your life style. If you choose to go bully, it is a extremely tedious task to find a breeder worth a crap. I'm sorry about the two pups legs, but with the right nutrition they'll be a-ok. I whole heartedly don't think that those particular deformities are from genetics.


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## rednose_momma

im reallysorry about how this is turning out for you, but i still have faith in camelot lines my dog is from there and she is almost to the exact measures of a pitbull but when they are overdone then i agree with you as i cant stand the bowed out legs and the massive bodys anything over 65 is a bit much for me as i do prefer the more active bred pits, not that i mind bullys i think they can be very pretty but i dont want my dog to be able to lay on me and i cant move. im very sorry about your pups wat were the parents of the camelot lines you got? just curious


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## pitbulljojo

That SUCKS big time. The only problem Ive had my RE dogs are bad skin/mange/allergies. That is fairly common in APBTs . 
As for English Bulldogs. They didnt have all those issues until breeders started to go for the "extreme" look. Now they cant walk, breathe or breed. I grew up in England and knew bulldogs that could chase us down as kids. Someone thought it would be a good idea to exagerate their looks - and that's why they have issues now. APBTs are a pretty healthy breed as a whole. It looks like youve been having a rough go or it but hang in there . You sound like a great owner. Maybe in your next life you could come back as your own dog.


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## gamer

pitbulljojo said:


> That SUCKS big time. The only problem Ive had my RE dogs are bad skin/mange/allergies. That is fairly common in APBTs .
> As for English Bulldogs. They didnt have all those issues until breeders started to go for the "extreme" look. Now they cant walk, breathe or breed. I grew up in England and knew bulldogs that could chase us down as kids. Someone thought it would be a good idea to exagerate their looks - and that's why they have issues now. APBTs are a pretty healthy breed as a whole. It looks like youve been having a rough go or it but hang in there . You sound like a great owner. Maybe in your next life you could come back as your own dog.


mange is not common in apbts just bad bred ones. and what is the difference in the EBs and these bullies today?


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## 9361

gamer said:


> mange is not common in apbts just bad bred ones. and what is the difference in the EBs and these bullies today?


Helena had demo mange as a pup, I had never heard of it before I had her. But I have heard it was a common problem in the breed... well I know now it's only common in the BYB lines...


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## chiakong

and people wonder why there is a hatred toward bullys...or their owners/breeders I should say


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