# Raising siblings?



## Autumn-n-Gage (Nov 28, 2012)

I was wondering if anyone had raised or is raising sibling pitbulls? I have a male and female siblings and they are doing great I just wanted to hear any feedback from anyone who has two from the same litter how they acted, how they act separated? Like Gage my male will pace and whine if he can't see Autumn my female, he gets very concerned lol it's cute... Also the play fighting... Obviously they are puppies they get rough they leave scratches on each other and I am like a hawk with them to make sure it doesn't get out of hand. The aluminum can with pennies works like a charm, they hear me pick it up at this point without shaking it yet and they freeze.

So yeah just to stop my rambling, I was just trying to see who else has/had siblings.







This is Gage







This is Autumn







Cuddle buds

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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I have 2 littermates right now, although they are pups as well almost 6 months I do notice behaviour changes already. The female is pretty rough with the male and at times had to be seperated, we have now crate trained them indiviually and they are treated as the rest of my dogs only out together while supervised. Just because they are siblings does not mean they will get along forever, just keep that in mind. DA kicks in as they mature , some may have it some may not but I would work on training them seperate just incase you need it in the future, especially when they already whine when apart. Get them used to being apart at times or you may run into some anxiety issues. Some of the dogs I know from partners who are related have the hardest times being together when grown. My friend has a mother daughter who can not be together period, so goes to show relation does not matter.


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## Autumn-n-Gage (Nov 28, 2012)

Yeah so far everything seems to be okay with them, but we are always watching for something to turn. I pray they will get along, but i know that isn't for certain.

they LOVE people all they want is attention anytime we go anywhere. We have been trying to get them around as many dogs, friendly dogs, that we can, Autumn normally doesn't have a problem, Gage seems scared and waits until Autumn has met the dog before he will met.

We crated them together for the first couple days just because I though they might have a problem getting used to the new place and new people. Now we have them separated but right next to each other (in those metal crates vs the plastic ones). I try to take them out at least once by themselves to walk they are learning every quick, our female faster than the male though.

My boyfriend (their co-owner) and myself work rotating schedules, so some times we are home at night and others times we aren't, I'm sure that doesn't help with the whole keeping a schedule with any type of puppy but they seem to be doing great. For the most part they are only alone for about 4 hours a day right now, of course sometimes if our schedules match up for a change it is longer.

There mother and grandmother don't get along either. Supposedly the grandmother is very protective over the puppies and the mother seemed to shrug it off and caused tension for the lady we got our two from.

I have grown up with dobermans, mastiffs, and cane corsos in my home and have had pitbulls in close relatives, but these are the first two that I have had with me. So far we are trying to do our best and learn as we go along.... I'm also curious as to this flirt poles and spring board/poles I hear about? I was told by a co-worker who has two boxers that his brother has a rope ties around a tree limb and there pitbull will jump clench the rope and just swing himself... Is that what a flirt rope or spring pole is?

Sorry I post a lot.. I don't want to be that owner who doesnt know anything or do anything right... I'm trying by best I just have questions.

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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Flirt pole you can make using PVC pipe and running a rope through it { make pipe long enough where the dog cant touch you when chasing it or jump on you , ours is about 4-5 feet long} tie a huge knot in one end so the rope cant be pulled though and tie a toy, hide, peice of cloth on the other end for the dog to chase. easy way to exercise them with minimal effort on your part, you just stand there and turn around in a circle making the dog have to run after the toy. 

The spring pole is what is tied to the tree, you can tie a rope directly to the branch if the tree has enough give or if it is a firm branch with no give attach a garage spring to the branch and then another rope from the spring to the toy or hide , this allows some give. { can be hard on a dogs mouth if there is no give to it}. with pups make sure it is low enough all 4 paws can touch the ground as any jumping or falling can injure a pup easily and cause ligament / tendon damage. wait till they age a bit and you can slowly raise it. I will attach a pic of my boy who LOVES the spring pole. I dont know if I have video of the flirt pole will have to look for it. 


edit: will PM you the video as it has music on it that swears LOL


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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

> Like Gage my male will pace and whine if he can't see Autumn my female, he gets very concerned lol it's cute..


No, it's not cute. This is one of the main problems with raising siblings that I see people run into (or they don't get along at all) Finding the time to work with ONE puppy is hard, finding a way to work two puppies (SEPARATELY) is, well, twice as hard. You NEED to do this. Your male must learn now to be comfortable when the female isn't around. They both need to have time to bond with YOU, the handler, one on one. You will also need to fix them sooner rather than later.
Good luck!


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

I have to intact males, two years old, they get along great, best friends. Like Gage, my two boys get really uncomfortable if they can't see one another. 

We don't own crates, don't chain them and don't separate them. It's the second time I've raised a pair of two brothers, so don't let anyone tell you it can't be done.

With that said. It can be a recipe for disaster, especially two males, especially if you do things wrong.

In reality, if you don't work from home or on a ranch where you're with them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, there is a lot of risk to it (let me rephrase that: it's virtually impossible without crates or chains). Especially when they're young and growing up, their relationship seems to change on a daily basis. 

Between 9 months and 1 1/2 years is a difficult stretch. If you can get through that time relatively unscathed, it gets much easier.

If you're going to allow them around one another all the time, here are some tips:

1) No toys laying around. Toys start fights. And for damn sure, not playing fetch with a single ball.
2) No food or bones laying around, starts fights.
3) Don't let one dog clean the bowl of the other when you feed them. He'll get in the habit of scarfing down his food and walking over to nose into the other dog's bowl. Leads to a fight.
4) Don't let them dig in the trash, they'll fight over trash.
5) Let them play, but don't let them growl. They can play as rough as they want as long as no one growls or gets his hair up. 
6) Don't let them dry hump each other. Leads to fights.
7) When they reach 9 months or so, figure out which one is the leader, not the biggest nor the toughest nor the meanest, the leader. Which pup runs around searching and which pup follows the other. 

That allows you to walk both on a leash at the same time. Feed a dog's length of extra rope to the leader when you're walking. Switch their natural roles... you have a fight.
8) Let them sleep together. It builds a bond. Separate them at night, and you're going to have to start separating them for other intimate activities as well. 
9) Don't ever pet one and reject the other. If you're petting one and the other wanders over, pet him too. If you tell one you've had enough, tell them both to get away. 
10) Give them absolutely nothing to get jealous over. No favorites, over anything, ever. 

Of course, all dogs are different and you may be able to be a little lax on some of these things. Who knows, each pair of pits is an experiment in itself. You'll figure out a system that works for your two.

One thing is for certain, siblings are much easier to handle together than the mess that is created when you introduce a new dog into the family. In some cases, it's a noble decision, -- rescuing a dog for example -- but that's a really hard situation to deal with.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

Kingsgurl said:


> No, it's not cute. This is one of the main problems with raising siblings that I see people run into (or they don't get along at all) Finding the time to work with ONE puppy is hard, finding a way to work two puppies (SEPARATELY) is, well, twice as hard. You NEED to do this. Your male must learn now to be comfortable when the female isn't around. They both need to have time to bond with YOU, the handler, one on one. You will also need to fix them sooner rather than later.
> Good luck!


:goodpost: u dont want the dogs to be more bonded to each other than to u. ...


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

hotchkiss said:


> I have to intact males, two years old, they get along great, best friends. Like Gage, my two boys get really uncomfortable if they can't see one another.
> 
> We don't own crates, don't chain them and don't separate them. It's the second time I've raised a pair of two brothers, so don't let anyone tell you it can't be done.


It's not that it can't be done. The majority of use just choose to not risk our animals safety and treat these dog like they are labs when they are not. This is a dog aggressive breed. Just because you have had dogs that are not dog aggressive doesn't change what the breed its self is capable of.

I would rather be responsible and separate them than risk a dog fight that could seriously damage or even kill one of my dogs in minutes.

You have had cold dogs that are not DA, but assuming all others will be cold is foolish.

All you need to walk dogs together on a leash is proper training. I have several DA dog that can be around each other and I can walk them together. They focus on me not the other dogs. Your dogs need to bond with you not the litter mate.


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## Celly_Cells_Kenya (Aug 27, 2012)

i would like to just chime in and say, i think ur on the right track OP... sounds like u are starting to train and walk separately, crating separately and searching for the right info.... good luck on ur adventure...

only advice, which I'm sure u know is, never leave them alone un crated.... always have them separate when no one is around..... kenya and my roomates dog got into a scrap becuase i thought it would be ok to leave them in the yard together while i went to the store for a bag of chips and a beer, rookie mistake. when i came back i had a bloody massacre in my yard. kenya tore my roomates dog to shreds and was still holding and shaking even tho she clearly won the battle.... 

and they have known each other since kenya was 8wks old.... never showed aggression before.... so just be cautious...


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

American_Pit13 said:


> It's not that it can't be done. The majority of use just choose to not risk our animals safety and treat these dog like they are labs when they are not. This is a dog aggressive breed. Just because you have had dogs that are not dog aggressive doesn't change what the breed its self is capable of.
> 
> I would rather be responsible and separate them than risk a dog fight that could seriously damage or even kill one of my dogs in minutes.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

American,

I'm not making any assumptions about other people's dog, cold or otherwise. You're making the assumptions. One, that I've never had and don't currently don't have any DA pits. That's silly; you know nothing about the pits I own now, the pits I've had in the past, nor the pits of my father's I was raised around.

You're also making your argument based on the premise that if a dog is DA toward some dogs, that they're aggressive toward all dogs. That's not the case. I have a pit that goes at any dog that stops to posture, but he has no problem with the neighbor's couch rat following us on walks.

They're are many cases of pits that were grand champions in the pit that were extremely playful with other dogs in a yard. 

You don't know anything more about me than I know about you and your dog's behavior doesn't epitomize the breed. You're just making too many sweeping generalizations and broad assumptions about both me and pit bulls to offer anything of worth to work with.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I think American pit has more then earned her credit that is given to her on here. She has proven what she knows over and over on here and I would hold her words higher then yours at this point. She is not the only one who saw what you wrote as a bunch of red flags being raised. I thought the same thing as her, from what we have heard on here you have some cold dogs { nothing bad, I have some as well} but to generalize that it can be done { raising multiples with no crates or chains} based on those type of dogs you can really be causing more harm to those you tell that too. You have no idea if the person you are responding to will have cold dogs as well, last thing you want is to give someone a false sense of security based on your dogs who may not be DA to begin with.

See this alot with new members who come on and praise themselves on how they raised there dog and trained and if they can do it everyone can , but in fact they never had DA dogs to begin with. Also see that with the cesaer milan freaks who think cause he has a pack together then they should be able to as well, but yet they missed the shows where he had fights and they dont see what the camera doesn't catch.

I have a DA dog too who is fine with some as you say , that is true and can happen. however will I chance her with the ones she has not had issues with yet unattended? nope crates are a GREAT tool to use , and should be encouraged IMO to any member coming and asking for advice on multiples.


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## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

angelbaby said:


> I think American pit has more then earned her credit that is given to her on here. She has proven what she knows over and over on here and I would hold her words higher then yours at this point. She is not the only one who saw what you wrote as a bunch of red flags being raised. I thought the same thing as her, from what we have heard on here you have some cold dogs { nothing bad, I have some as well} but to generalize that it can be done { raising multiples with no crates or chains} based on those type of dogs you can really be causing more harm to those you tell that too. You have no idea if the person you are responding to will have cold dogs as well, last thing you want is to give someone a false sense of security based on your dogs who may not be DA to begin with.
> 
> See this alot with new members who come on and praise themselves on how they raised there dog and trained and if they can do it everyone can , but in fact they never had DA dogs to begin with. Also see that with the cesaer milan freaks who think cause he has a pack together then they should be able to as well, but yet they missed the shows where he had fights and they dont see what the camera doesn't catch.
> 
> I have a DA dog too who is fine with some as you say , that is true and can happen. however will I chance her with the ones she has not had issues with yet unattended? nope crates are a GREAT tool to use , and should be encouraged IMO to any member coming and asking for advice on multiples.


Good post. Finally getting our older dog to be comfortable in her crate and not break out was the best. It helps us with one on one training and when we're gone I am not constantly freaking out about if she's getting into stuff like she used too. She likes her crate now and when she sees me grab my stuff walks right too it and Cain goes to his.

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## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

American_Pit13 said:


> It's not that it can't be done. The majority of use just choose to not risk our animals safety and treat these dog like they are labs when they are not. This is a dog aggressive breed. Just because you have had dogs that are not dog aggressive doesn't change what the breed its self is capable of.
> 
> I would rather be responsible and separate them than risk a dog fight that could seriously damage or even kill one of my dogs in minutes.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:

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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

hotchkiss said:


> You don't know anything more about me than I know about you and your dog's behavior doesn't epitomize the breed. You're just making too many sweeping generalizations and broad assumptions about both me and pit bulls to offer anything of worth to work with.


Generalizations and broad assumptions lol... Ummm no I know the breed there is a difference. I also had no intention of leaving something to work with lol. I made a statement.

I didn't assume anything.



hotchkiss said:


> *I have to intact males, two years old, they get along great, best friends.* Like Gage, my two boys get really uncomfortable if they can't see one another.
> 
> We don't own crates, don't chain them and *don't separate them*. It's the second time I've raised a pair of two brothers, so don't let anyone tell you it can't be done.


This right here in your own statement shows that your dogs are not DA. They may have scraps or dominance fights, but are clearly not DA.



hotchkiss said:


> You're also making your argument based on the premise that if a dog is DA toward some dogs, that they're aggressive toward all dogs. That's not the case. I have a pit that goes at any dog that stops to posture, but he has no problem with the neighbor's couch rat following us on walks.


I never said if they are DA with some dogs that means all dogs.. You ASSUMED that. I said:



American_Pit13 said:


> *It's not that it can't be done*. *The majority of use just choose to not risk our animals safety and treat these dog like they are labs when they are not. This is a dog aggressive breed. Just because you have had dogs that are not dog aggressive doesn't change what the breed its self is capable of.
> 
> I would rather be responsible and separate them than risk a dog fight that could seriously damage or even kill one of my dogs in minutes.*





hotchkiss said:


> They're are many cases of pits that were grand champions in the pit that were extremely playful with other dogs in a yard.


Being DA has nothing to do with fighting so where did this statement even come from??? This has not a single thing to do with this subject lmao.

You seem to want to "educate" based on your specific dogs not based on the breed as a whole.


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## Princesspaola21 (Oct 30, 2012)

Here we go again...smh

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## hotchkiss (Oct 11, 2011)

First you say, "yes, a dog can be DA in some situations, but not others." Then you turn around and say, "you're dogs are clearly not DA because they don't fight between one another." Which is it?

You're right, DA has nothing to do with game, but what do you think "cold" means? Show me "you know the breed." Tell me what you meant when you said my dogs are "cold."

Please don't make the mistake of saying it has anything to do with DA.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

American_Pit13 said:


> Being DA has nothing to do with fighting so where did this statement even come from??? This has not a single thing to do with this subject lmao.
> 
> You seem to want to "educate" based on your specific dogs not based on the breed as a whole.


I thought the very same thing when I read that. DA is not a trait required fo [] dogs. I'm sure there are a ton of stories about old [] dogs that were far from DA and I also am sure there are stories about DA dogs that could not hang in a [] and curred out quickly.

But stay on subject. Crating is great advice and I personally wouldn't want sibling dogs because raising one is "fun" enough lol. Sorry I'm fostering a mix that has no manners and hardly any training and after this I'm good with that. Ill stick to my older dogs. Lol!


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

hotchkiss said:


> First you say, "yes, a dog can be DA in some situations, but not others." Then you turn around and say, "you're dogs are clearly not DA because they don't fight between one another." Which is it?
> 
> You're right, DA has nothing to do with game, but what do you think "cold" means? Show me "you know the breed." Tell me what you meant when you said my dogs are "cold."
> 
> Please don't make the mistake of saying it has anything to do with DA.


Again, as I stated in another thread, you're ability to google, copy and paste is uncanny. Then you want to read between the lines in someone else's post, but if someone dares to do the same to you and pick apart your posts, they're making assumptions or don't know a thing about the breed. I think you've got it all wrong buddy. Holly has been here a very long time, and earned her position on the staff. You seem to have no regard whatsoever for staff members and want to constantly argue with and antagonize everybody. I hope you've enjoyed your stay on our yard. Now, get back under the porch, cur!


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

hotchkiss said:


> First you say, "yes, a dog can be DA in some situations, but not others." Then you turn around and say, "you're dogs are clearly not DA because they don't fight between one another." Which is it?
> 
> You're right, DA has nothing to do with game, but what do you think "cold" means? Show me "you know the breed." Tell me what you meant when you said my dogs are "cold."
> 
> Please don't make the mistake of saying it has anything to do with DA.


Gosh pickin colors was hard on my phone lol. Anyways. The blue part that Holly said was refering to the breed as a whole, the tan part is refering to ur dogs specifically. Cold means they don't want to fight, if ur dogs were hot or DA in the traditional sense then u would have a lot more problems keeping them together.

And on a side note, even if they are not DA towards each other, u should never leave them alone unsupervised.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

To the OP.. I apologize for your thread getting off track and straying away from your original question. We're going to get it back on track now. I hope we've not been too aggressive in your first thread here and that you stick around.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

hotchkiss said:


> First you say, *"yes, a dog can be DA in some situations, but not others."* Then you turn around and say, *"you're dogs are clearly not DA because they don't fight between one another." *Which is it?


When you use quotation marks that means you are quoting someone.... I never said either of those things little kitten. You may have got that from what I said, but don't quote me and say I said things that I did not.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

American_Pit13 said:


> When you use quotation marks that means you are quoting someone.... I never said either of those things* little kitten*. You may have got that from what I said, but don't quote me and say I said things that I did not.


dont sugar coat it, dude is a bitch.

siblings can fight, OP. just get a couple of crates on craigslist


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

OP has crates zohawn  

Autumn I think you are doing great so far with them and on the right track already Sorry your thread got turned upside down like it did. Just when someone offers bad advice to another newer person the more experienced people speak up to make sure a novice suggestion doesn't cause you problems later on


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

OMG WTH? Are you seriously trying to ruin someone else's thread. What is your deal? Stop trying to convince everyone that you are all knowing on this breed when you very clearly have no clue what's going on. The only one making any assumptions is YOU. You are the one assuming all dogs of the breed will act exactly like your do. We all know every dog is different. Every dog acts different. That's nature. You need to look at the breed as a whole not just one or two dogs. 

To the OP this breed does tend to be DA, by genetics not environment. Now not all of them are going to be DA, but it is important to keep that in mind and watch for signs as they mature. Some dogs can be fine and live happily with no issues but some just can't so its important to take steps to keep them safe. I think you've been given some very good advice so far. Crate training is a must with multiples. As stated above dogs can be fine their whole lives and one day some trigger sets them off. 

I was just talking about this in another thread. I had I friend who owned 4 "pit bull" type dogs. Two were the parents and the other two were their puppies. The pups got into a terrible fight one day and her being in a panic and trying to yank them apart ended up getting her finger bitten off and one of them swallowed it, we looked for it hoping maybe it could be reattached but never found it so we think it must have been swallowed. 
Although they were related and had gotten along in the past something triggered them and it got serious. Had all these dogs been crate trained and separated during feeding time I really don't think that would have happened. Training them separately is also a great idea. It's always get to get good one on one time with both pups. Them having a bond with YOU is much more important then them bonding with each other. They need to understand that you are the boss, not which one of them is. Honestly I don't think it's ever good to let one be dominant over the other because as they mature the other may start to challenge the other for that dominance. All and all I think your on the right track. Crate training was a great start . Just keep your eye on them and crate them when your not home. Even if they seem fine and not bothered by one another, always always have them fully separated at meal times. Food can be one of the biggest triggers for a fight. And lastly, keep up on their OB training. Training them together can be fun but make sure you and each pup get some good one on one training time together. Everyone will really benefit from it


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## Lacy Lou (Nov 26, 2012)

They are both just cute as can be. It also looks to me like Gage is smiling! Nice pups.


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## Autumn-n-Gage (Nov 28, 2012)

Here are some new pictures of Gage and Autumn I thought Id share.. thank you to everyone who gave criticism..whether positive or negative.. no one is perfect and I am learning new things everyday. 
































They are getting big in a hurry! Wish they would just slow down

~Ash

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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

they are so sweet , I especially love the fawn one. And yes they do grow very fast , enjoy this puppy size while it lasts


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## Autumn-n-Gage (Nov 28, 2012)

angelbaby said:


> they are so sweet , I especially love the fawn one. And yes they do grow very fast , enjoy this puppy size while it lasts


Thank You!!! I am trying, I feel like I have to take pictures everyday because they are growing so fast lol my phone is LOADED with pictures lol

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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

They do grow so fast! There was a lot of side bar on this thread, but I hope you retain the parts about working them separately (especially the less confident one!) and building a bond with them as individuals.
Good luck! Two puppies is a TON of work!


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## Autumn-n-Gage (Nov 28, 2012)

Kingsgurl said:


> They do grow so fast! There was a lot of side bar on this thread, but I hope you retain the parts about working them separately (especially the less confident one!) and building a bond with them as individuals.
> Good luck! Two puppies is a TON of work!


Thanks!!
Yes I was able to get the info out of the chaos of this thread lol I have been working on them both, individually, a lot. Gage, the less confident has honestly been just as good as Autumn, he just shows in a different way.. as in Autumn understands a lot, and she knows if she puts her paws on the first step to go upstairs and I say down, she gets down. But Gage just knows better, he doesn't go up the stairs unless told to come, doesn't go in the kitchen unless told. Autumn tries to she how far she can get before I say no, down, etc.

When we first picked them out we knew Gage would be the quiet more relaxed...AKA.. LAZY lol he could just lay around all day if allowed he is a cuddle bug. Autumn has always been the out going one, but she is learning there has to be limits. I'm trying to get Gage to come out of his shell a little but thats a work in progress lol one day at a time I guess. Over all for right now they are both great pups, when together or separated.

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