# for a dog to be considered...



## Scarface (Apr 9, 2008)

for a dog to be considered a certain type of bloodlineage how far does it have to go back and how many times does that dog havve to occur?


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Im pretty sure its 4 generations. It has to be in each generation. As in for a dog to be considered an OFK dog it would need OFK in all 4 generations.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

In other words, the dog has to be 100% of the line in questi0n other wise it's a cross


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## Scarface (Apr 9, 2008)

so if there is a majority gardner's in the 4th and 3rd then in the 1st and 2nd a majority of another blood line what blood lineage is it?


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

That would depend on what you mean by a majority... for it to be 100% the last couple bred in would need to be a really high percentage. Be more specific so we can give you a decent answer, if you have a pedi share it with us and we'll tell you where you are at.


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## Scarface (Apr 9, 2008)

lol i have a pedigree, but its a paper copy and not on the computer. unless they are all put onto computer file or soomething


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

take a picture of it, and post it up :thumbsup:


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## Scarface (Apr 9, 2008)

dog was inbred so only need this pedigree of dad
http://www.espomagazine.com/pedigrees/5746.htm


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I see a couple of names I like in there and a couple I'm not too fond of. Was your dog inbred or linebred, I consider a 50% dna match up inbred. Dads pedi is cool, hard to read to the untrained eye(like mine) and I think your dogs pedi would help out some more if it was line bred.


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## Scarface (Apr 9, 2008)

the dam n sire were in the same litter

What dogs are u fond of and not fond of and why?


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Scarface said:


> the dam n sire were in the same litter
> 
> What dogs are u fond of and not fond of and why?


Touchy... If I name name I'll probably get my a$$ chewed so I'll just keep my opinion to myself on this one. But I will say that a few of the dogs were hard to find anything about cause they have never done anything but breed. What happened with this litter, was it an accidental breeding. I'm glad that you were made aware that it was an inbred but did the breeder tell you what to expect, could be one big walking, drooling, vet bill. Has your pup been fixed? I understand the pros and cons of why and why not, so if you haven't got that done I'll get it but I will say that the breeder shoulda had that whole litter culled.


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## Scarface (Apr 9, 2008)

reddoggy said:


> Touchy... If I name name I'll probably get my a$$ chewed so I'll just keep my opinion to myself on this one. But I will say that a few of the dogs were hard to find anything about cause they have never done anything but breed. What happened with this litter, was it an accidental breeding. I'm glad that you were made aware that it was an inbred but did the breeder tell you what to expect, could be one big walking, drooling, vet bill. Has your pup been fixed? I understand the pros and cons of why and why not, so if you haven't got that done I'll get it but I will say that the breeder shoulda had that whole litter culled.


lol, he actually is one of the smartest dogs that ive owned so have, just because a dog is inbreed doesn't mean he is goin to have any disabilities. It just narrow downs the gene pool by a lot and the percentages are increased for getting a mentally unstable dog.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

Your dog would be of a few different bloodlines judging from that pedigree.



Scarface said:


> lol, he actually is one of the smartest dogs that ive owned so have, just because a dog is inbreed doesn't mean he is goin to have any disabilities. It just narrow downs the gene pool by a lot and the percentages are increased for getting a mentally unstable dog.


So true. I've had great inbred dogs and not so good ones that were loosely bred. I've had inbred and linebred dogs that didn't work out too.

Whether or not it increases chances for mentally unstable depends on the parents and bloodline. My inbred dogs I don't consider to be unstable or have mental challenges, ect. I have had 1 unstable APBT. Same as his dam. Very loosely bred dog dog, several different bloodlines in the mix.

What leads you to believe he would be more likely to be mentally unstable. If an inbred dog has close DNA/genetic make up to say his sire, he shouldn't be any more unstable then his sire was. Unless the sire had issues then the dog would not, if the sire did then it is extremely likely the offspring would. Even if being outcrossed said sire could reproduce it, but with inbreeding it is much more likely and probably more of the pups would have some issues.

You should get out and meet more dogs from more good breeders to see how a properly bred dog will be. Inbreeding doesn't hurt their stability/temperament.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

I never even thought about mental instability, thus, that is not what I was refering to. What I was getting at was genetic defects being ultra-dominant. I agree with line breeding and it's purpose, but I frown on breeding siblings. A dormant defect stands a huge chance of making it's presence known in an inbred. I'm not saying that the dog is dumb or is bad, it's just my opinion that he should be neutered. Anyone wants to argue that, that's fine... Just stating my opinion


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

reddoggy said:


> I never even thought about mental instability, thus, that is not what I was refering to. What I was getting at was genetic defects being ultra-dominant. I agree with line breeding and it's purpose, but I frown on breeding siblings. A dormant defect stands a huge chance of making it's presence known in an inbred. I'm not saying that the dog is dumb or is bad, it's just my opinion that he should be neutered. Anyone wants to argue that, that's fine... Just stating my opinion


I don't want to argue. 

Defects that are recessive can come to light via inbreds. The chances are great for line breeding as well. Higher then out crosses which may allow the dogs to carry the defect, pass it to offspring who won't express it because it only comes from one parent, in turn the offspring would also be a carrier. That is very true. However not all inbred dogs will have genetic defects. So if the dog does not show a defect and passes health testing there is no reason why that dog should not be bred. I don't like sibling breedings either, I've never seen a purpose for it overall in the scheme of breeding. However the inbreeding as you mentioned can cause the bad to come to light. If there is no bad, then the dog will be ok and there isn't a problem with breeding, he would be as healthy individually and genetically as any other dog.

Some OFRN dogs were bred brother to sister for multi generations. This is seen as a actually being a looser breeding then parent to offspring because of the diversity of genetics given to offspring by each parent. You are almost repeating the breeding of the parents by breeding brother/sister. Of course the genetic recessive defects could come out since they are now both carrying the genes of the parents so in that way it is different.

If you look at pedigrees you will probably note some inbreeding from time to time. One of my inbred females has inbreeding also in the pedigree her grand dam is from a half sibling breeding and her grand sires dam is from a sibling breeding.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Quote
Some OFRN dogs were bred brother to sister for multi generations. This is seen as a actually being a looser breeding then parent to offspring because of the diversity of genetics given to offspring by each parent. You are almost repeating the breeding of the parents by breeding brother/sister. Of course the genetic recessive defects could come out since they are now both carrying the genes of the parents so in that way it is different.

If you look at pedigrees you will probably note some inbreeding from time to time. One of my inbred females has inbreeding also in the pedigree her grand dam is from a half sibling breeding and her grand sires dam is from a sibling breeding.

I would like to add to correct my previous statement... I frown on most inbreeding(sibling). If a breeder has been in the game for decades, knows what they are doing, has perfect OFA scores, and has a very specific goak in mind then I would find it acceptable. I feel that a NooB. so to speak, has absolutely no business inbreeding. Also, OldBlood, I didn't understand your statement about linebreeding being loose, was that in comparison to inbreds?


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## Scarface (Apr 9, 2008)

ok i think we are getting off topic, i just wana no if he has a good bloodline, and what kindof apbt he is


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

> lol, he actually is one of the smartest dogs that ive owned so have, just because a dog is inbreed doesn't mean he is goin to have any disabilities. It just narrow downs the gene pool by a lot and the percentages are increased for getting a mentally unstable dog.


 Inbreeding even when done properly can produce the best of the best within that particular line but also the worst of the worst. As already said it should not be done by someone who just breeds indiscriminately.



> ok i think we are getting off topic, i just wana no if he has a good bloodline, and what kind of apbt he is


 I know some of the names in front of a few of the dogs in the ped but not the dogs so I can't comment on if it is good or not LOL and I'm being too lazy to research it. I will add though that I've seen dogs that look great on paper that are not in person as well as dogs with what appear to be poor pedigrees that somehow have come out being great dogs. You can't just look at the papers and know it all.

Patch O' luck w/ the pup.


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