# Throwing knuckles



## performanceknls

Any info on this dog? I know he was heavily bred but I think I read somewhere he produced a lot of health issues. Is any of this true?


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## stonerreakinhavok

pk is he bully or am staff? im looking at his ped and and his dam is china black whos a ukc ch but china blacks sire and dam are both akc. but knuckles sire is ack. i know knuckles is duel regged.


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## performanceknls

He is in a lot of bully peds but was very much a UKC style dog. I have been looking at bully peds on dogs I like but I keep seeing his name show up.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Knuckles was one of Dave's foundation dogs and dual registered. He was a UKC GRCH/AKC CH.


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## pitbullmamanatl

As far as the health issues, I have my own speculations as does Shana. I have some info I got from Dave a while back somewhere on my computer regarding the foundation dogs. Let me see if I can find it.


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## pitbullmamanatl

*Knuckles Ped*


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## stonerreakinhavok

anything i say you probably already know like dave bought the dog from kimmar kennels, and he was a foundation dog for r.e. also read that daves ex jeanine might currently have the dog(speculation). sorry none of that is really helpful. how ever i think dave wouldnt have bred him so much if he didnt throw good healthy pups. as for any one that got hands on pups from the dog and bred them you cant always trust how they bred the pups. idk though i was having trouble finding any information other than the stuff i just posted. good lookin dog though im kinda curious on what other people say


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## pitbullmamanatl

Knuckles had a great front as did most of the dogs that came out of Kimmar. RE Junior was the only direct off spring off of Knuckles that had a bowed front and was out at the elbows. Dave suggests that when breeding a dog who goes back to Junior to make sure you use a dog with an excellent front.


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## Nizmo

Great info. I know Lowla has throwing knuckles in her ped and is more a ukc dog


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## Black Rabbit

^ Freakin love that doggay!!!!!!


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## PRSweetKandi

Throwin Knuckles is also in my Kandi's ped, also.


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## Nizmo

kg420 said:


> ^ Freakin love that doggay!!!!!!


thank you 
She's huge now, but over all a great dog.


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## Firehazard

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [2284] :: RAZORS EDGE THROWIN KNUCKLES (UKC)

.... .. Sorry Im bias to my fed peds..  LOL

I like the way this dog turned out.. 
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [321334] :: JOY'S MISS DOLLY

they use whopper, and razors edge and have 35lbs dogs. 
AGAINST THE WIND KENNELS - Montana based breeder of performance Pit Bulls

looks like very lil deformities at least in the dogs presented; so not all razors edge have health concerns.. JMO


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## 9361

Firehazard said:


> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [2284] :: RAZORS EDGE THROWIN KNUCKLES (UKC)
> 
> .... .. Sorry Im bias to my fed peds..  LOL
> 
> I like the way this dog turned out..
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [321334] :: JOY'S MISS DOLLY
> 
> they use whopper, and razors edge and have 35lbs dogs.
> AGAINST THE WIND KENNELS - Montana based breeder of performance Pit Bulls
> 
> looks like very lil deformities at least in the dogs presented; so not all razors edge have health concerns.. JMO


DAAAAAANNNNNNNGGGGGG Those are some nice dogs! I have seen some ADBA show dogs with bullier dogs back in their peds.


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## stonerreakinhavok

Firehazard said:


> they use whopper, and razors edge and have 35lbs dogs.
> AGAINST THE WIND KENNELS - Montana based breeder of performance Pit Bulls
> 
> looks like very lil deformities at least in the dogs presented; so not all razors edge have health concerns.. JMO


they're pricing isnt bad either i like the spay/neuter price break and the proven show/weight pull price break


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## Firehazard

they are some good people, talked with the lady a while back and its good to know there are people who are breeding working stock APBTs in their traditional size and ability to function.

Whenever RE comes up, I bring up these folks... Cause not everyone is doin it right, its nice to see someone who is.


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## Rudy4747

Knuckles is in Dooney peds about four or five generations back. All the dogs down where uck. Breed back to heavy boudreax dogs. Weird mix I know but I think this is why (imo) he has good but not over done bone. From what I I hear is knuckles was very corect dog not to bully. But was used as a foundation for the re line. Was a very nice dog. But he was an amstaff, not bully or Sony.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Rudy4747 said:


> Knuckles is in Dooney peds about four or five generations back. All the dogs down where uck. Breed back to heavy boudreax dogs. Weird mix I know but I think this is why (imo) he has good but not over done bone. From what I I hear is knuckles was very corect dog not to bully. But was used as a foundation for the re line. Was a very nice dog. But he was an amstaff, not bully or Sony.


Knuckles was Am Staff not Bully hence why he is called a foundation dog.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Charlie Lloyd's Pilot (UK 1878)








x 
Charlie Lloyd's Paddy








produced Mitchell's Paddy who produced Jack White's Teddy (2xw 1891) who produced
Colby's Pincher (24xw 1896) 









who produced Colby's Bunch who produced Colby's Tony who produced Moore's Major Colby who produced Winde's Pat Colby who produced X-Pert Black Lady







(1935)
who produced who produced X-Pert Black Ace








who produced Black Ace II who produced Xpert Brindle Biff







(1946) 
who produced Xpert Gallant Lady 








who produced Xpert Rowdy Rascal 








who produced Sky King of Harwyn 








who produced Ruffian Skybolt of Harwyn 








who produced Ruffian Red Rock of Harwyn 








who produced Rowdytown Patton's Red Rock Nefertiti who produced who produced White Path's Painted Rock 








who produced Pam's White Path China Black who produced RE Throwin Knuckles 








who produced RE Nevils Buckshot 









 who produced Short Shot 








 who produced Manu 








who produced Diego's Doing Big Things 








 who produced Pratt's Lil King Kamali 








who produced Pratt's Ooh-Rah of Semper Fi








who produced Semper Fi's Espi


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## Rudy4747

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Knuckles was Am Staff not Bully hence why he is called a foundation dog.


Yep that's what I said. Lol guess I just should have worded it different.


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## pitbullmamanatl

Rudy4747 said:


> Yep that's what I said. Lol guess I just should have worded it different.


My bad, Rudy, you did say that at the end.


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## stonerreakinhavok

fh or any one else so would you call em bullys or apbts since they got re in em? im liking the breeding they are planning for 2013. very fond of the dogs they produced


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## pitbullmamanatl

stonerreakinhavok said:


> fh or any one else so would you call em bullys or apbts since they got re in em? im liking the breeding they are planning for 2013. very fond of the dogs they produced


Those dogs are not bully. They are not even Classic. I look at the ped and the dog. Just because RE is in there doesn't mean it is automatically an Am Bully. In the 90s, a lot of people and breeders obtained RE show dogs, because they were winning in the UKC at the time and used them in their program. These breeders were not happy about the AmBully fad and kept their dogs and yards clear from the dogs that went off in any direction to extreme. Not necessarily ADBA show dogs, but definitely not Am Bullies.


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## stonerreakinhavok

thanks for clearing that up for me lauren


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## pitbullmamanatl

stonerreakinhavok said:


> thanks for clearing that up for me lauren


Because she goes back to Cairo the ABKC would register her as an Am Bully; however, I don't know of any bully breeders that would breed to a dog like her. I just asked a friend of mine what he thought of her for his yard and he said, "She'd make a nice pet. No way I'd breed to her though."


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## KMdogs

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Those dogs are not bully. They are not even Classic. I look at the ped and the dog. Just because RE is in there doesn't mean it is automatically an Am Bully. In the 90s, a lot of people and breeders obtained RE show dogs, because they were winning in the UKC at the time and used them in their program. These breeders were not happy about the AmBully fad and kept their dogs and yards clear from the dogs that went off in any direction to extreme. Not necessarily ADBA show dogs, but definitely not Am Bullies.


IMO RE now in days are in no way, shape or form APBT. I'd say 99% if not all are Bullies. Never seen a game RE dog.


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## stonerreakinhavok

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Because she goes back to Cairo the ABKC would register her as an Am Bully; however, I don't know of any bully breeders that would breed to a dog like her. I just asked a friend of mine what he thought of her for his yard and he said, "She'd make a nice pet. No way I'd breed to her though."


i can understand why he wouldnt breed a dog from them but id assume your friend breeds dogs for show mostly right? the dog doesnt fit any of the categories so the cross would be counter productive to his breeding program becuase they dogs dont really fit any catagory and for the most part it looks like these are working dogs very very well conditioned dogs from the pictures, i think a dog a chain weight or even 15 lbs over would even be a big stretch from what the bully are today and even in the 90s

@km thats just cause of how the breeding program went they wanted a companion dog and aimed for the show ring we all know that am staffs arent the gamest dogs... so why would a cross be any different especially aiming toward a heavy am staff influence


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## pitbullmamanatl

KMdogs said:


> IMO RE now in days are in no way, shape or form APBT. I'd say 99% if not all are Bullies. Never seen a game RE dog.


I can agree with that and I never said they were. This is in reference to the dogs bred in the 90s and a lot of people bought them; however, some went in a different direction and are in no way, shape, or form American Bully. It is a blanket statement that if a dog has RE in its ped then it is a bully.


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## KMdogs

stonerreakinhavok said:


> i can understand why he wouldnt breed a dog from them but id assume your friend breeds dogs for show mostly right? the dog doesnt fit any of the categories so the cross would be counter productive to his breeding program becuase they dogs dont really fit any catagory and for the most part it looks like these are working dogs very very well conditioned dogs from the pictures, i think a dog a chain weight or even 15 lbs over would even be a big stretch from what the bully are today and even in the 90s
> 
> @km thats just cause of how the breeding program went they wanted a companion dog and aimed for the show ring we all know that am staffs arent the gamest dogs... so why would a cross be any different especially aiming toward a heavy am staff influence


Crossing what AmStaff lines with Bully? Just another mixed breed. Amstaffs aren't game, DA on various levels but as you said bred for the show ring.


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## KMdogs

pitbullmamanatl said:


> I can agree with that and I never said they were. This is in reference to the dogs bred in the 90s and a lot of people bought them; however, some went in a different direction and are in no way, shape, or form American Bully. It is a blanket statement that if a dog has RE in its ped then it is a bully.


Just wondering, what would you consider those said dogs if not Bully? Its kind of difficult to pick apart one particular bloodline as far as dividing between two different breeds based on conformation and not. If some particular breeding programs are breeding RE outside standards where does that leave the bloodline? Are they selectively breeding for particular drive/traits or purely physical?

I know what i believe but trying to understand perhaps a little more on where you are coming from.


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## stonerreakinhavok

KMdogs said:


> Crossing what AmStaff lines with Bully? Just another mixed breed. Amstaffs aren't game, DA on various levels but as you said bred for the show ring.


bullys are amstaffxapbt. what im saying is i dont think bullys are that game they look to me like they are more heavily amstaff influenced than game dog influenced. im agreeing with you. you'd be hard pressed to find a game bully just like you'd be hard pressed to find a game am staff


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## KMdogs

stonerreakinhavok said:


> bullys are amstaffxapbt. what im saying is i dont think bullys are that game they look to me like they are more heavily amstaff influenced than game dog influenced. im agreeing with you. you'd be hard pressed to find a game bully just like you'd be hard pressed to find a game am staff


There are no game Bullies or ASTs, if by chance there are its behind closed doors for very good reason..No point. Counterproductive.

Bullies may have started out as such (though i personally believe EB's have been used quite more than admitted) however if you breed a Bully to APBT or AST it is a mixed dog. Bullies have been selectively bred and perfected long enough to not have further influence from other breeds.

Im exhausted, 6am and no sleep yet so excuse me if im not really fully understanding some posts. lol


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## stonerreakinhavok

KMdogs said:


> There are no game Bullies or ASTs, if by chance there are its behind closed doors for very good reason..No point. Counterproductive.
> 
> Bullies may have started out as such (though i personally believe EB's have been used quite more than admitted) however if you breed a Bully to APBT or AST it is a mixed dog. Bullies have been selectively bred and perfected long enough to not have further influence from other breeds.
> 
> Im exhausted, 6am and no sleep yet so excuse me if im not really fully understanding some posts. lol


lol no problem. just agreeing with you i would think that am bulldog was tossed into the gotti line. and eb could be in there too. i think people have bred them for certain traits and physical aspects, drive not being a big deal. but there are alot of people breeding these dogs just for looks esepcially creepy looking dogs as we all know.


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## pitbullmamanatl

They were bred for companionship and show, drive was not something that was of importance. Am bullies were UKC style apbt x am staff with very little game bred influence. I'll post more when I get on my laptop. I'm on my phone now


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## Rudy4747

The re dog now are bullies unless some one has old blood like myself and is breeding it back into show stock then you have show dogs of apbt. Now you take old blood re back to a bully then you have bullies. This is just my opinion.


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