# Alligator dogs



## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

After seeing the Dennis' little girl in the pic with Gary Hammonds, it made me the of Alligator dogs that so many people claim they have. There is a big difference between those Gator dogs you hear some speak of and the real Alligator line. I am bored as sh#t today, as it is pouring rain here...I can't spend the day with the bulldogs so I figured I'd attempt to spark some interest with this thread.

PURE ALLIGATOR


If I have a field of expertise, then the ALLIGATOR family has to be one of those areas of the dogs that I am most familiar with. It is easy to see why, as I have a history with these dogs from their beginnings. I have been asked to elaborate many times over the years about the dogs in this family, and have written articles from time to time about various aspects of the ALLIGATOR family.

I get calls nearly every week from someone wanting a pure ALLIGATOR dog and I am forced to go through the form. They always seem to know either someone who has one of these creatures that are rare as a unicorn or the flip side, where a feller he knows has a Yard full of them. Many of the people who have gleaned the net for all the wild claims and stories about dogs that were in their hay day before they were ever born, are experts on their history. They then try to force feed the folks who saw them first hand, all the facts.

When someone starts educating me on facets of the family, I generally just listen and try to educate them a bit, if they will listen, but most already know it all, so I just “Uh huh” it and let them believe what they will. In spite of the ability I have acquired over the years to pretty much not care what people have to say about the dogs, I catch myself becoming a bit cantankerous at times. A young fellow had a long pedigree laid out in Front of him and me on the phone, gonna rub my nose in it, I suppose. As he reads the pedigree I searched the old gray matter and could verify everything he said was correct. “Now you know,” he said, “there are some pure ALLIGATOR dogs out there.” That is when I backslid and said, “Son you know “STU FOWLER” in that pedigree?” “Yeah”, he said, “Well that ain’t ALLIGATOR and as far as that goes BLACK SISTER, MAURICE, D.C., MIDGET, LILLY, or their Offspring aren’t either, even though all were bred to pure ALLIGATOR dogs.”

I have no ax to grind with anyone and I certainly do not put a pen to paper in order to plug the dogs I have, but refuse to misrepresent anything having to do with the dogs. This is the somewhat ancient history as I saw it, right up to today and will share it with those of you wanting a dose I was lucky enough to have been involved. Mr. Williams of Fort Worth, Texas had acquired a big pretty black Bitch from Maurice Carver called SATIN LADY, who was off TRON HEAD and BLACK BEAUTY. This was a mish mash bred Bitch that had no rhyme or reason as to how she was bred, but the type of dog Carver was famous for and pretty much with the good stuff up close. Mr. Williams wanted to breed her back to a black stud and even though both BULLYSON and ELI JR. were available, he listened to Trussell and some of those men, and made the trip to Wichita Falls to breed to the old ****** dog from Tudor that was owned by King at that time. He was some of the last of the JEFF-BABY stuff.

This breeding produced ALLIGATOR, SOKO, and SUSAN RENEE’. Even though I didn’t care for this breeding, I saw early on that these were no ordinary dogs. Now that we have established the foundation for the ALLIGATOR family, which would include SOKO and RENEE’, you must realize that you could call them anything, but the ALLIGATOR name seemed to stick. These three were pure ALLIGATOR dogs. Now Mr. Williams bred ALLIGATOR back to SATIN LADY and the Offspring included RUFUS and 500. These too were pure ALLIGATOR and if you considered the genetic background, were three quarter Carver and one quarter Tudor. 500 was then bred back to his dam, SATIN LADY, which produced a litter of pure ALLIGATOR dogs, with the ration being 75% Carver and 25% Tudor. I owned one of these dogs, called BOOKER T, who was registered as King’s SHANE. While he was a good producer, he was never bred to a pure ALLIGATOR Bitch, and finished up his life over in Massachusetts at Frank’s place. ALLIGATOR was later bred to his sister, SUSAN RENEE’ two times and produced KIOWA (KYBO), SIOUX, ONEIDA, SENECA, and CHOCKTAW (BAYER), from the first breeding. The second breeding included EBONY, BULLGATOR (BUTTERFLY) and BATIMA. All these were pure ALLIGATOR dogs. RUFUS was bred to SIOUX, which produced GATOR GAL and VITO. VITO was later bred to his dam’s sister, BATIMA, which produced BULL E GATOR, STEEL, and TEMPER. All these were pure ALLIGATOR and this is where it all ended. I held the key to a generation or two of pure ALLIGATOR dogs, but saw the effects of the tight breeding creeping into the last individuals. Many of those who knew the last of this family in it’s pure form, will say some were good enough to use in a breeding program, even pure. But to me it was time for an out cross or a blend that was compatible, without being too tight. All this said, I will honestly say that in spite of having become very fond of these dogs, and various blends, I never felt compelled to breed out of sentiment, or to be able to claim another generation or two of pure ALLIGATOR dogs.

In my early years, I too was impressed with the pure stuff, but was quick to figure out that many dogs were misrepresented. Some of course, have no pedigree, so whatever someone claims about his background, holds no water at all. The second is someone saying they have a DIBO dog. A look at the pedigree and DIBO is in the fifth generation two times. To me there is nothing quite as irresponsible as hanging papers or misrepresenting any dog on how it is bred. What I am saying, don’t get so caught up in the dogs that you start making wild claims, or passing on misinformation.

Back in the sixties, my friend, Pete Sparks, had a magazine “Your Friend and Mine” and it was one of the best of the day. There was some things in it that didn’t set best to do it right. The Colby family, which was one of Pete’s favorites and mine too, would be mentioned in an ad as fifteen sixteenths Colby, then there would be a line drawn through it and pure Colby written out beside it. This misrepresents the facts and was not the thing to do, as the Colby’s were still breeding it in the pure form and deserves the credit for keeping it pure for over a half century at that time. My hats off to the Colby’s and even the folks with 15/16’s Colby dogs. A lot of time and effort went into the foundation of each and they deserve to be called what they are.

Last, but certainly not least, is the myths of pure or tight being superior. Do not get caught up in that hype either. There are a lot of dogs bred pure, tight, or even scatterbred that suit me and worth their feed, so be realistic in efforts with dogs…. You will be a better dogman or woman for it.

Gary J. Hammonds


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

Very interesting reading thanks for posting that. We could use a little of your rain out in SoCal we've got fires EVERYWHERE!!!


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## rufinsarahbell (Nov 9, 2008)

Very interesting article.
As we can see, there were only pure Alligator dogs for two generations. After that, Gary had the good sense of crossing them Alligator dogs into other lines, to produce better offsprings. Down the line, one of his sons, Rufus, made ROM. Love them Rufus dogs, possibly the hardest biting game bulldogs around.


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## cwoode (Dec 17, 2008)

*New post, first timer*

I admire people who have a passion for these dogs. I only wnat to learn more so I can do what is in the best interest for the breed and types of thiss breed.

I am concerned about the bloodline topic. someone please tell me what a bloodline is, how it is started and maintained and what sort of accounability do breeders have to maintain to secure their stock.


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

Wow that was a great posting

We need more pics of the crew too btw...*hinthint*


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

BTW Here is Alligator if your interested 








Soko








FOund one! Rene








Ped for the dogs
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=380


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

BedlamBully said:


> We need more pics of the crew too btw...*hinthint*


I know, I know. I told Steph that I would post up some recents of Buck but it has been rainy and cold as hell here. My wife and I just purchased a new camera today, so I will definately break it in very soon.


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## dan'sgrizz (Oct 22, 2008)

Thanks madbood...very nice article. Where did you come across that one at? I want some more pics too! i cant get anough of .22 caliber. My personal fav! I do love that renee she has made a picture in almost every stratton book it seems...what a sweet face. 
Would it be safe to assume then that some of these "alligator dogs" today are still relatives of the alligator family? Or are most of them making outlandish claims?


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

dan'sgrizz said:


> Would it be safe to assume then that some of these "alligator dogs" today are still relatives of the alligator family? Or are most of them making outlandish claims?


Definately. There's always those folks deep in the sticks that have old blood that very few people even know exists. I wouldn't be surprised if there was still some 'ol hermit was sitting on some pure OFRNs too.


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## pitbulllover27870 (Jul 6, 2008)

u know im glad i read this. i was talking to a buddy of mine and i told him how i got a new pup.. and come to find out his bro was given a pup from this same litter and the lady that gave em us told him that they were pure alligator dogs... soo lol after reading this i had to give him a correction lol.. good post!!


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## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

i just wanted to add to this thread of where the best blend
of these dogs can still be found alive and well.

Virtualpedigree

some of the hardest hitting baddest dogs from the alligator/maverick
lines are still being utilized at very high standards.


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