# Protein...how much is to much?



## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

I have my pup on Blue buffalo grain free so the protein count is high. I have friends that own a great dane pup and another friend who has a mastiff pup. They don't feed a food high in protein because the XL breeds grow to fast and the high protein foods can cause them to mature more rapidly and lead to joint problems. Even though bullys and apbt aren't XL breeds could to much protein have an adverse affect on our puppies/dogs?


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

It really depends on the dog. I have seen knuckling in dogs that is corrected by switching to a lower protein food. 
According to the Dog Food Project:
While it is true that *(particularly large breed)* puppies benefit from a moderate protein content diet during their growth stage, in order to allow for slower, more even growth and to avoid orthopedic problems, the concept of avoiding proteins and fats in a dog's diet seems to be tied more to cost of ingredients - lesser amounts of quality meats, more grains - than anything else. Wanting to secure their profit margin, the "big players" in the pet food industry seem to be marketing their products based on least-cost ideas of "proper nutrition", impressing wrong dietary principles on consumers who are just trying to do the right thing for their beloved pets.
When feeding a diet that contains more protein than currently needed, extra protein is metabolized and used for energy. Unlike fat, excessive protein is not stored as such in the body, but once the demand for amino acids is met and protein reserves are filled, protein energy could be used for the production of fat. Animals fed diets too low in dietary protein may develop deficiency symptoms like decreased appetite, poor growth, weight loss, a rough and dull coat, and decreased immune function. Lower reproductive performance, and decreased milk production are symptoms in breeding animals. There is no scientific proof that high protein diets cause dogs to get "hyper" or "aggressive". No biochemical or nutritional factors support this myth. There is also *no conclusive evidence* so far that protein intake actually contributes to the development of kidney dysfunction in healthy animals.

My opinion on EVO and TOTW and Orijen is that they are quality dog foods probably the best out there, but unless you have a working dog like hog dogs and sled dogs then 42% protein isn't really necessary. I think 28-32 or even 35% would suffice.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

think it depends on how much you work your dog as to how much protien they need. I do alot with Vendetta and she is on a food that is 27% protein. DaVinci doesn't do much of anything so he is on a food that is only 20%. Both dogs look good. Does your dog look good is he the proper weight does he seem to be growing at a good rate this will determine if you are feeding the right food.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

MY MIKADO said:


> think it depends on how much you work your dog as to how much protien they need. I do alot with Vendetta and she is on a food that is 27% protein. DaVinci doesn't do much of anything so he is on a food that is only 20%. Both dogs look good. Does your dog look good is he the proper weight does he seem to be growing at a good rate this will determine if you are feeding the right food.


I agree with Sharon. Body weight and condition is the best indicator.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

My pup and adult dog are both on evo red meats they tolerate it very well. I do think the higher protein kibbles Are best for dogs being heavily worked but I wouldn't say higher protein kibbles would adversely effect a pup because they are high in protein rather not all dogs tolerate high protein kibbles well or the same It's going to depend on each dog individually. I feed evo because IMO it's the best and my dogs do well on it.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for the info everybody  Bella is developing beutifully and already has great muscle tone at 5 months. She will be a VERY active girl jogging with me, doing obedience as well as agility eventually. Blue buffalo is 34% protein and Bella does excellent on it. Seems like people on here either love it or hate it but to each his own  I only have access to TOTW and EVO.....no Orijen close to me unfortunately. Blue Buffalo rates high on the dog food lists so for now she will stay on that. Sadie, I used to like Innova evo and Natura foods. At one point on alot of the dog forums I used to frequent it was all the rage as the "best of the best" but they sold to Proctor and Gamble home of Purina dog chow, Iams, Eukanuba,* so I now question the quality of there food. I posted a link for you 

Proctor & Gamble Buys Natura Pet Foods - Pets and Vets - timesunion.com - Albany NY

http://www.aplus-flint-river-ranch....acquired-by-procter-gamble-eukanuba-iams.html


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I would not go over 18% for a pup because you can get all kinds of growing issues like knuckling over or pano for the big guys. As adults I would not feed over over 30% even my working dogs. I just add fat to add weight on not extra protein, the high the protein the harder the kidneys have to work. This is all personal preference but I would not feed the higher protein foods, you can feed some of the TOTW that is under 30% if you want grain free.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> I would not go over 18% for a pup because you can get all kinds of growing issues like knuckling over or pano for the big guys. As adults I would not feed over over 30% even my working dogs. I just add fat to add weight on not extra protein, the high the protein the harder the kidneys have to work. This is all personal preference but I would not feed the higher protein foods, you can feed some of the TOTW that is under 30% if you want grain free.


Thanks performance  Now you have me worried and thinking if I should switch her


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

You just have to go with what works for you I don't know of anything medically that states canines shouldn't consume over a certain percentage of protein in their diets. I do know that some dogs don't tolerate high protein kibbles well I have also heard of pups having the knuckling over issues and having to be put on a lower protein diet to help correct the issue but I am pretty sure that knuckling over in pups is a result of genetics and poor breeding not a direct result of high protein in the diet. I could be wrong I will have to read up on it more. I know many people who feed orijen and evo and swear by it I personally love evo I was using innova previously. Both IMO are excellent feeds. But I hope you can find something that works well for your dogs this really boils down to preference as Lisa stated.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Another question? If the high quality grain free kibbles are high in protein and can be to much to for some dogs to handle what about a person who chooses to feed a puppy a RAW diet? I would assume the controversial high protein diets would include the raw fed pups and dogs as well and can have the same affects a high quality kibble has. I googled protein and pups and came up with contadicting answers. Some say it can cause issues with kidney and liver function and in XL breeds like mastiffs and great danes can cause Pano. It's a pretty contoversial topic and a confusing one at that  Someone mentioned it is the calcium that causes over growth or rapid growing not protein. Blue buffalo grain free has 1.3% calcium is that low, moderate, or to high?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I agree raw would not be excluded .... It is one of those topics where your going to see conflicting answers based on ones opinions and experiences. I personally can't seem to find anything medically proven that would prove high protein diets are dangerous in canines dogs are Carnivores. I pay close attention to my dogs stools and bathroom habits my dogs let me know when something is not right and I make adjustments accordingly if need be.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Here is a good read on calcium intake in canines

Calcium & Phosphorous Requirements for Dogs


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Dietary Requirements in Dogs


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for all that info Sadie


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Your welcome like I said no one is really right or wrong on this subject if you don't feel comfortable feeding over a certain amount of protein than go with your instincts as always watch your pup and look for any changes in stools and bathroom habits as long as your feeding a high quality feed or a raw diet that's done properly I don't see any reason to worry.


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## roe1880 (Nov 8, 2008)

the high the protein the harder the kidneys have to work. This is all personal preference but I would not feed the higher protein foods...

Not true PK...Here is what I found....

PROTEIN EXCESS
So what happens when there is too much protein in the diet for a dog's needs?If extra energy is required for, say, performance or lactation, excess protein is metabolised and converted to energy. Otherwise it is converted to fat and stored as energy in the body. Unlike fat and carbohydrates, excess amino acids are not stored for later use. During normal protein metabolism, a nitrogen waste product, urea, is formed and excreted in urine.

Some people are concerned that excess protein or high-protein diets can cause kidney problems. A lot of early research into protein and its effect on the kidneys was carried out in rats, which led researchers to suspect that feeding high levels of protein over long periods of time could lead to chronic kidney disease.As a result, it was common for protein-restricted diets to be recommended for older animals and those with kidney disease. However,in contrast to rats, there is no conclusive evidence that protein intake contributes to kidney dysfunction in healthy dogs. It has also been suggested that older dogs experience reduced kidney function as a normal consequence of ageing, but so far research has not supported this idea either.

Having said that, it is still important to moderately restrict protein in dogs that have high levels of urea in their blood, which implies that the kidneys are not excreting urea wastes properly. If a dog is diagnosed with kidney disease, moderate protein restriction can help alleviate clinical signs. However, it is equally important not to cause a protein deficiency in such dogs. Infact, restricting protein levels in older dogs can actually be detrimental. Protein deficiency can compromise the immune system bringing about infections and poor health; it can also lead to anaemia and muscle wasting. It is not uncommon to see older dogs with poor skinand coats suffering protein deficiency. Lower protein diets are also less palatable, so a vicious cycle can begin with a reduced appetite for the diet. Dietary protein in geriatric dogs should not be restricted simply because of age; their diets should contain adequate levels of high quality protein.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks roe. So basically what you posted is an article and its saying that high protein diets are safe? I'm having a brain fart sorry lol! 

Sadie...did u see the articles I posted about P&G buying natura innova dog foods? I'm sure the quality will slowly decrease  since proctor bought them I won't even purchase anything from them.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

roe1880 said:


> the high the protein the harder the kidneys have to work. This is all personal preference but I would not feed the higher protein foods...
> 
> Not true PK...Here is what I found....
> 
> ...


Hey Roe Thanks for posting this man .. Good Read I have highlighted the main points that stuck with me....


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