# Dooney's Faults!?!?



## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

On BTK's show he was talking about pointing out your own faults. So I thought I would post Dooneys. And see what others think.
















So I think he is little big in the head. He is also a little off in his rear angelation. I want to know what people think not only of Dooney but maybe their own dogs.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

First, I am loving those nice, tight feet! I love his head, but I also like a nice head on a dog. He does appear a little roach backed though. What standard are you going by? ADBA? UKC? Excellent post, Rudy, glad you tuned in! It was a really good show.


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

yup only fault i see offhand is his topline .


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

There is a thread on faults already.... here you go:
http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/28793-photos-structure-faults.html

He is a cutie! How old is he?

There is no perfect dog... they all have faults sometimes as their owners it makes them harder to pick them apart because we love them. Faults don't mean they aren't still awesome dogs. 

What I see is he is needs more shoulder layback and depth of chest and is lacking proper rear angulation; I also agree that his topline is roached.

here is a good link to help you learn how to eval your dog:
American Pit Bull Terrier Network Pit Bull Encyclopedia A to Z about the APBT


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Patch-O-Pits said:


> There is a thread on faults already.... here you go:
> http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/28793-photos-structure-faults.html
> 
> He is a cutie! How old is he?
> ...


Patches, I think the intent of this thread is a little different. BTK was talking about knowing your dog's faults on his show last night, as some people can be kennel blind. I think Rudy's intent is to get others to post their dogs and point out faults they notice on their own dog. It could be a very good thread just as long as there is no bashing of other dogs and nobody gets overly defensive.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

I think he's an awesome looking boy nonetheless.

After doing some research, my boy has a slight roach but it's hard because it depends how he's standing.




























Slight e/w


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

i show in ADBA and that is the Standard I know and that i am going by. I have been told that I should not stack his feet so far back be cause it causes his back to arch. So macho I would try and stack him with his feet streight under his hip joints, so that his hip joint would be a lined with the front of his rear paws.
ADBA standard Dooney"s head is a little to big.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

That was a natural stack. Thanks for the advice. I prob will never show him adba since he is obviously a bully, his head is too big, and his body structure probably won't allow for me to get him that lean without looking unhealthy. I might compete in something else like w/p or something. Who knows lol.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Here's a few of Dosia

this one is natural stance









and my attempt at stacking, im not quite sure how to properly stack


















Dosia has a giant head lol poor boy, and his ears are huge, we should have cropped. Also his chest is very shallow and doesn't drop down nearly as far as it should. I'm pretty sure his under bite is a fault as well. His front looks pretty good but his feet could be a bit tighter. I'm not really sure about any other faults but comments are welcome


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

I got the point of the thread, but too me it is pretty much the same as the other... the owner posts what they think and others chime in on it. I like to see threads like this though some who ask seem not to like the answers...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the standard is the standard. So I too hope everyone takes it with a grain of salt when asking and uses the info as a learning tool. We all love our own dogs regardless of faults...

Even judges can't help but to have their preferences it seems though when they interpret the standard.

A good natural stance means more to me than one that has to be manipulated. I say that because the better the overall structure the better a dog will naturally stand. The better the structure the better the movement and workability of the dog as long as the temperament and drive also meets the standard. Those things you can't see in pictures and to me are just as important.

LOL I for one am not kennel blind and am probably harder on my own dogs then others would be...



> After doing some research, my boy has a slight roach but it's hard because it depends how he's standing.


 You want to judge the structure when the dogs is stacked. Most dogs can wiggle and look like their structure is off if they aren't standing properly.

Rudy4747, 
Legs too far out or in will throw off a topline, but manipulating them a tiny bit certainly can help the look of a roached topline just watch it doesn't push anything else into a weird position.

A good judge will pick up on a handler covering up things, while watching the dog move and the dog's total structure in a stack, but it doesn't hurt to be conscious of what makes the dog look best. Sometimes a good handler is what helps a dog win more so than the dog when it is a close call for the judge picking.
There are all sorts of little tricks handlers use in the ring with manipulated stacks.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

There are faults and then there are non-strengths. Not everything that is average or less-than-perfect is a true *fault*.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

bahamutt99 said:


> There are faults and then there are non-strengths. Not everything that is average or less-than-perfect is a true *fault*.


 ABSOLUTELY!!!! Great post :woof:


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Is it just me or do the ADBA and ukc see the top line differently? 
I have been told on a couple of different occasions "Your dog place well because he moves so beautifully." So maybe I am just bad at stacking himLOL.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

The UKC and ADBA standards have some differences and most of the dogs are even moved differently in the show ring from what I've seen. Honestly, I've seen very few people actually gait their dogs in the ADBA ring, I usually see a lot of pulling... 
I have done both ADBA and UKC with Bodacious.
Just curious were the comments from bystanders or from the judges? I like to talk to the judges win or lose afterward to get their opinions.

Form follows function...


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Jugdes. When I just started showing him he was doing well but I really had no clue what they were looking for. So i made it point to ask every judge that i showed under. One of my good freinds is a judge. but the day I met him he judged dooney. He is the one who told me he moved so well, And that that was the reason he got a first place ribbon. He gave me his number and we talk dogs all the time now.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

Rudy4747 said:


> Jugdes. When I just started showing him he was doing well but I really had no clue what they were looking for. So i made it point to ask every judge that i showed under. One of my good freinds is a judge. but the day I met him he judged dooney. He is the one who told me he moved so well, And that that was the reason he got a first place ribbon. He gave me his number and we talk dogs all the time now.


Awesome! One of the best ways to learn is talking to the judges. I've never met an ADBA judge who wasn't willing to share info and talk about the dogs. Patch O' Luck for your continued success.


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## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

Onyx is built like the old school sbt. Leaner, ripped, slender more workable. Much like a swimmer lanky lean strong and explosive. Personally imho onyx ears are too large. Due to his height and length not being equal, his length prevents him from widening in the shoulders. Here is a few pics different stages in his growth

Natural stack 12mos









Full stack from front shoulder 10mos









Full stack shuffled front foot forward 9mos


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Patch-O-Pits said:


> The UKC and ADBA standards have some differences and most of the dogs are even moved differently in the show ring from what I've seen. Honestly, I've seen very few people actually gait their dogs in the ADBA ring, I usually see a lot of pulling...


Very true. I've noticed a lot of ADBA handlers gait their dogs at a walking speed with the dog pulling and sometimes rearing up. I gait Terra like I would in UKC, even going into the ring in the first place (since that's the only time the judge will see her awesome side movement). It makes me wonder if ADBA judges really understand movement. I know that some do, but I kind of wonder what the others are looking at when they see a dog gaiting on its hindlegs. LOL


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

bahamutt99 said:


> Very true. I've noticed a lot of ADBA handlers gait their dogs at a walking speed with the dog pulling and sometimes rearing up. I gait Terra like I would in UKC, even going into the ring in the first place (since that's the only time the judge will see her awesome side movement). It makes me wonder if ADBA judges really understand movement. I know that some do, but I kind of wonder what the others are looking at when they see a dog gaiting on its hindlegs. LOL


I try to gait Dooney were I am at a slow jog. So he is at a steady quick pace. I am going to a UKC show here in Tulsa on the 19th. I will not compete but want ot get a feel for it so I can start getting my dogs ready for those shows.


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## crocro49 (Mar 22, 2009)

nice dog, i prefer a roached back over a hippopotamus back


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

The dog in your avatar is really nice. Thanks.


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## r0ckah0l1c (Jan 18, 2011)

Are all of the dogs posted in pics papered or show dogs? Lol because I don't think my dogs fit any standard properly xD


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

r0ckah0l1c said:


> Are all of the dogs posted in pics papered or show dogs? Lol because I don't think my dogs fit any standard properly xD


dooney is both he shows in the ADBA. I can not speak for the others. But you could post some pics here or in the Structure and faults thread and people could help you understand how your dog fit in the standard, or how it does not.

I think Dosia the seal colored dog on this thread is a great looking dog. And KG I don't think his head is to big. It seems to be proportionate to hid body.


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