# Like some input from those w/ ACL tear experience.



## Joewilly (Mar 6, 2011)

Hi all...had our 2 yr old female examined last night by a vet here in NYC whose an orthopedic surgeon. after handling and moving her joints he said she had an acl tear and gave a very enthusiastic sell job for surgery within the next 2 weeks. It seems very expensive, 2,000 plus ( a major hit for me right now).
I was surprised he didn't want to do an x-ray (he's got the equipment). He said it's impossible to determine the extent of the injury until he opens her leg.

At the least..I'm going to bring her to another vet for an opinion.

One of my concerns is...Is surgery necessary..If it's a minor tear....will it heal by itself...will it always pose a danger of a complete tear. ( I've been walking around for many years with a couple of ligament tears, arm and leg, personally). Although, I'm not an athlete and can alter my activities accordingly and she can't. 

Another is, how common is the surgery, how likely are they to screw it up and make her a cripple.

Any experience..info, etc appreciated.


----------



## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear this. ACL injuries are pretty common, unfortunately. Yahoo has a great group called Ortho Dogs. Tons of very helpful people and info.

To answer your questions-
X-Rays aren't that useful for determining ligament tears, though depending on your surgical choices, will be used for determining slope and angles. They will use something called Drawer Sign to determine if a tear has occurred. They may do x-rays to see if there is anything else going on. (They test for Drawer by manipulation of the knee joint. If your dog is not sedated for the test, the results are sometimes not accurate. Martin was thought to have partial tears in both knees, but once they went in for the surgery, it was discovered that both knees were fully blown and there was Meniscus damage as well. Tough dogs with strong musculature are harder to tell, lol.

A ligament tear will not heal itself, though surgery is just one option. There are also several surgical options available. Martin had Bi-Lateral Extra-Capsular (used to be referred to as the Traditional Repair) That surgery isn't much in favor any more, and most surgeons will push either a TPLO (Tibial Plane Leveling Operation) or a TTA. (I'm not very familiar with TTA, as it's newer and wasn't available back then) The TPLO is pretty involved and includes cutting of the bone to change the angles and prevent forward motion of the femur over the tibia and plates.
The Traditional repair basically uses what amounts to high test fishing line threaded through a hole drilled in the bone to stabilize the joint while scar tissue builds up to support it. Non-surgically, you can achieve this through the use of conservative management (restriction of activity initially, then gradual building up by certain exercises. Some people use braces during this) This takes a long time.
Arthritic changes will occur in the knee no matter which route you choose.. Good luck.

You have time to research and make the best choice for you and your dog. Don't feel pressured by the two week window your vet gave you. The tear isn't going anywhere. Things to keep in mind- if they blow one knee, they are likely going to blow the other at some point. (about a 75% chance of that, might be higher) I would start supplementing her with glucosomine and keep her weight down as much as you can.


----------



## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Very common, I have not had it personally but know MANY people who have. Most factors are spring pole too high, flirt pole making them jump or turn too much and overweight being a factor. Which stinks because they can only rest when its injured and that's not gonna help with getting the weight off. I have heard people having an MRI done but its about how much you want to spend on that compared to spending on the surgery. Get a second opinion, of course and since your girl is still you she is gonna need her legs and ACL tears do not heal on their own, it will just re-injure later whenever you think its better and start the process all over again.


----------



## PerfectPit (Aug 2, 2010)

Beastley had luxating patella surgery about 2 mths ago and it is costly. I would get a second opinion. We waited almost a year before getting it done. Cost was a major factor with us also. Ortho dogs was a great group who helped with information and support. I also googled financial assistance for dogs in need of surgery. I found about 8 groups that offered some type of financial assistance. You have to have your surgeon request the assistance and the reason for the request. It may not pay for all of it but it does help. It can take up to a full year to be completely "healed" depending on the dog. My boy still limps periodically but that is to be expected. It's a long slow process but it was well worth the cost. He is improving daily. My best suggestion is once you find a vet you are comfortable with and trust, follow his instructions. Sending good thoughts your way.


----------



## Joewilly (Mar 6, 2011)

Kingsgurl said:


> I'm sorry to hear this. ACL injuries are pretty common, unfortunately. Yahoo has a great group called Ortho Dogs. Tons of very helpful people and info.
> 
> To answer your questions-
> X-Rays aren't that useful for determining ligament tears, though depending on your surgical choices, will be used for determining slope and angles. They will use something called Drawer Sign to determine if a tear has occurred. They may do x-rays to see if there is anything else going on. (They test for Drawer by manipulation of the knee joint. If your dog is not sedated for the test, the results are sometimes not accurate. Martin was thought to have partial tears in both knees, but once they went in for the surgery, it was discovered that both knees were fully blown and there was Meniscus damage as well. Tough dogs with strong musculature are harder to tell, lol.
> ...


Thanks for all your input...just joined Ortho Dogs group will see what I can learn. My girl is very active...hard to keep her from zooming around so non-surgical alternative.. gradual build up of supporting muscles might not be good alternative for me.The likelihood of blowing the other knee is scary....
How did Martin do ? Fully recovered w/out additional injury I hope.


----------



## Joewilly (Mar 6, 2011)

ames said:


> Very common, I have not had it personally but know MANY people who have. Most factors are spring pole too high, flirt pole making them jump or turn too much and overweight being a factor. Which stinks because they can only rest when its injured and that's not gonna help with getting the weight off. I have heard people having an MRI done but its about how much you want to spend on that compared to spending on the surgery. Get a second opinion, of course and since your girl is still you she is gonna need her legs and ACL tears do not heal on their own, it will just re-injure later whenever you think its better and start the process all over again.


She likes to jump off the porch to the ground...about a 3 foot drop, that's how I think she hurt herself. She's a big dog, 22 inches 70 lbs, not overweight but 70 lbs is a lot of weight on the knee.


----------



## Joewilly (Mar 6, 2011)

PerfectPit said:


> Beastley had luxating patella surgery about 2 mths ago and it is costly. I would get a second opinion. We waited almost a year before getting it done. Cost was a major factor with us also. Ortho dogs was a great group who helped with information and support. I also googled financial assistance for dogs in need of surgery. I found about 8 groups that offered some type of financial assistance. You have to have your surgeon request the assistance and the reason for the request. It may not pay for all of it but it does help. It can take up to a full year to be completely "healed" depending on the dog. My boy still limps periodically but that is to be expected. It's a long slow process but it was well worth the cost. He is improving daily. My best suggestion is once you find a vet you are comfortable with and trust, follow his instructions. Sending good thoughts your way.


Thanks, I'm going to check out any financial assistance...someone told me that Vet teaching hospitals might offer a better price sometimes...done by students supervised by experienced surgeon...
Glad Beastly is recovering..as you say..at 2 months after surgery he's got a ways to go before he can be expected to be fully recovered / healed.


----------



## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

Martin is awesome, thanks for asking!! No probs. I bet your girl could take some weight off, you would be surprised.
Best of luck


----------

