# Evaluate this dog...



## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Ok everyone knows who its is.. AST Mix Chino.. So I want good comments, bad comments, just evaluate him like you would any other dog. Criticize away folks, this is a learning experience  










*couldnt get his head up cuz of Loca, but you get the idea! 
*


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## gxkon (Jul 13, 2009)

i think he looks great i dont know how to spot faults but he looks good to me


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

oz we need stacked pictures from front and the side... without precious loca! lol


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

well i can tell you that i know he's easty westy more westy than easty, elongated palette, his hind legs are a bit straight and im not sure if his back is long as you know pups develop funny

and shana... its hard to have him stack ill see if i can come up with something closer....


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)




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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

im still trying...... ROFL


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

ok my last attempt before i just wait til i have better pics........


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

from the pictures i can't see easty westy, but we gotta work with what we got lol.

His stifles are pretty straight, lacks angulation...which results in a high rear. 

His tail is set high.

elongated neck which results in an over all unbalance of the dogs appearance.


This is what i can see from pictures, but it doesn't mean that these are the most complimentary angles from the camera.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

Well Loca looks like a rabbit in that first picture! 

I think Chino is on the right track. He still needs to lean out from the baby fat and get a little more muscle on him. But he's a great looking dog. From what it looks he's got great lines, I've never seen his head straight forward though only side or his rear. But from side view he looks good.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

i thinik in the first pic i see the easty westy the most, its not so bad on the paw he hurt, its on his left side... AND i do see the elongated neck however when he is in a full stack it doesnt seem disproportionate LOL

we'll try this again with better pics


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

JFlowersLA said:


> Well Loca looks like a rabbit in that first picture!
> 
> I think Chino is on the right track. He still needs to lean out from the baby fat and get a little more muscle on him. But he's a great looking dog. From what it looks he's got great lines, I've never seen his head straight forward though only side or his rear. But from side view he looks good.


Yeah he thought she was some sort of toy at first LOL

We are working on leaning him out, the newest pic is the first pic with his new collar, its hard to tell with brindle but his tuck is SLOWLY becoming more apparent, he comes off the ground a bit when we play tug, but only his fronts and we have not done any "conditioning" yet, just plently of exercise. I plan to make a free standing springpole set up, and having it set pretty low so he can get the hang of it, it's one of the things ive been wanting to do the most, so that he can work those hind legs,

now i am seeing a TINY bit more muscle definition around his shoulders due to the different terrains that we have walked on, a lot of variation in the inclines, and so I even feel it working out different leg muscles on me..

He is only 9 months, and has only had 6 drag sled sessions, as I want to take it easy on him, but just like any other time, he lets me know when he is ready to move to the next step.. thanks for the input!


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

yeah you'll see alot more I think when he gets a little older. That "baby fat" sucks! 

Now I got to look at the other pictures off my iphone, can't see them while at work. I'm going to agree with IBK on her points...again it might be bad camera angle on a couple but. You're not going to show him are you SD? You're just going to WP him?


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

JFlowersLA said:


> yeah you'll see alot more I think when he gets a little older. That "baby fat" sucks!
> 
> Now I got to look at the other pictures off my iphone, can't see them while at work. I'm going to agree with IBK on her points...again it might be bad camera angle on a couple but. You're not going to show him are you SD? You're just going to WP him?


well he's my "petbull" but he will be pulling with the apa, and iwpa and if he shows any promise in those, then we will do limited registration with both the adba and ukc so that he can still pull in those registries. Loca will mostly pull ADBA, but I wont discount the UKC because experience is experience. WOuldnt be suprised if she went ot some of the APA shows with us, they have quite a few in this area.

No he will not be showing, he is not registered, but I just want to show that Ican recognize faults, and can sure as heck take criticism because that is what knowing your dog and understand these breeds is about. Knowing what is pet quality, show, performance or breeding stock. I never plan to breed, but I plan to know what it takes to fall into any of those categories!


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Oh Oz, I dig that new padded collar!!! Is that from Pulling Dog Leather?


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

reddoggy said:


> Oh Oz, I dig that new padded collar!!! Is that from Pulling Dog Leather?


Yeah Christy did a heck of a job! LOL i messaged her for business cards but i never pulled out the ones that came in the box LOL


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> well he's my "petbull" but he will be pulling with the apa, and iwpa and if he shows any promise in those, then we will do limited registration with both the adba and ukc so that he can still pull in those registries. Loca will mostly pull ADBA, but I wont discount the UKC because experience is experience. WOuldnt be suprised if she went ot some of the APA shows with us, they have quite a few in this area.
> 
> No he will not be showing, he is not registered, but I just want to show that Ican recognize faults, and can sure as heck take criticism because that is what knowing your dog and understand these breeds is about. Knowing what is pet quality, show, performance or breeding stock. I never plan to breed, but I plan to know what it takes to fall into any of those categories!


Wait, are you pulling APA and IWPA because you're altering him or because you don't want to start off in UKC/ADBA pulling right off? I figured you'd start off on Novice/Beginner ADBA (leash holds and walk alongs).


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

May I critique? I don't have much to say. He's got a great body and has a great general impression. The only thing I see non-staffordshire like is his long muzzle and his ears are out a bit. Really though, he looks fantastic and is making me want a brindle/piebald


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

JFlowersLA said:


> Wait, are you pulling APA and IWPA because you're altering him or because you don't want to start off in UKC/ADBA pulling right off? I figured you'd start off on Novice/Beginner ADBA (leash holds and walk alongs).


He's not registered with the ADBA or UKC. He's unpapered whatsoever, so APA and IWPA I am starting off, and if he does good with those organizations, then he will be altered for ADBA and UKC limited participated or registration, whatever it is called (different in each one).

The APA and IWPA let you pull both altered or unaltered, registered or not. We just do not plan to fix him until a little bit later. We are also prepared to keep them on separate ends of the house before Chino gets altered. No accidents here, you can count on that!


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> No accidents here, you can count on that!


I think Andy would murder you.

See I didn't know that UKC/ADBA will allow altered on their tracks. H*ll I need to go back and read now. CRAP! I hate reading!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

reddoggy said:


> May I critique? I don't have much to say. He's got a great body and has a great general impression. The only thing I see non-staffordshire like is his long muzzle and his ears are out a bit. Really though, he looks fantastic and is making me want a brindle/piebald


Well then in that case would you say he looks more apbt than amstaff? Father is a big boy, right around 70 lbs, but if he were my dog he'd be no bigger than 60-62 lbs his owner doesnt do anything for him (sad) and his mom is only 55 unconditioned... WOuld probably be around 50 conditioned.

The only thing that gets to me is what Lisa said about brindles it really is hard to see any definition and his tummy is white, so unless youre looking carefully, you dont notice it.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

JFlowersLA said:


> I think Andy would murder you.
> 
> See I didn't know that UKC/ADBA will allow altered on their tracks. H*ll I need to go back and read now. CRAP! I hate reading!


WIth limited Registration, at least with the UKC you can participate in anything but conformation (which I prefer ADBA conformation standard anyway) and with the ADBA Im pretty sure he would be limited to fun shows. I think someone could chime in to correct me if I'm wrong


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

ok since you asked 
he looks like he has a slight fiddle front but the E/W thing could be it, it is hard to tell for sure in the picture.
He lack good angulation in the rear, while it is not horrible he could use more. (trust me I have dogs that could use more in the rear too)
His chest is shallow and could use more depth in chest but again it is not horrible.
his tail set it a little high and he looks like in one picture his rear is a little high.

But who could not love chino? look at that face!
When he matures his head will pop and it will be gorgeous.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> The only thing that gets to me is what Lisa said about brindles it really is hard to see any definition and his tummy is white, so unless youre looking carefully, you dont notice it.


But we are looking at pictures! I'm sure up close and personal is a different story!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

JFlowersLA said:


> I think Andy would murder you.


Well no offense to Andy, it's more than beyond the contract. I wouldnt breed a dog of unknown origin regardless of how much I thought it was breeding stock (which he is not) because animal husbandry is something I know very little about, and I do not plan on bearing the responsibility that whelping a litter brings upon a person, and I do not believe I would be helping anything, rather digressing in our fight against bybs and ignorance. I honor my contract with Andy because I am a man of my word, but the reasons I would not breed go way beyond the OFK contract.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Nah, i don't think APBT, i think it could have been an outside bulldog cross...even a few generations back.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> ok since you asked
> he looks like he has a slight fiddle front but the E/W thing could be it, it is hard to tell for sure in the picture.
> He lack good angulation in the rear, while it is not horrible he could use more. (trust me I have dogs that could use more in the rear too)
> His chest is shallow and could use more depth in chest but again it is not horrible.
> ...


I am stupid, but what do you mean by his head will pop?

And is rear angulation something that can be worked on? or does it have to do more with bone structure, the straight legs, etc?

I want him evaluated and basically if he had to conform to one standard more than another, what it would be. I don't love him any more or less for anything I can point out or others can tell me, it just makes me feel like I kow my dog more and helps to understand the idea of function over form, and the idea that good form can be manifested from function itself.

He's eager to please, maybe a little soft but we are working on that daily, and he is a hard worker. I am pleased with him, just had some questions as to how he would do in any given show ring.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> Nah, i don't think APBT, i think it could have been an outside bulldog cross...even a few generations back.


What would make you say bull dog? j/w


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

StaffyDaddy said:


> I am stupid, but what do you mean by his head will pop?
> 
> And is rear angulation something that can be worked on? or does it have to do more with bone structure, the straight legs, etc?
> 
> ...





StaffyDaddy said:


> What would make you say bull dog? j/w


Head will "pop" means it will fill out and broaden

It has to do with his structure.

Also I forgot to multi quote... From pictures he definitely LOOKS all bulldog, but not all Am Staff nor APBT. What is he weighing in at now before i form a formal "oppinion" lol


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

56-57 lbs it fluctuates depending on when he gets weighed and how much activity he's had


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> WIth limited Registration, at least with the UKC you can participate in anything but conformation (which I prefer ADBA conformation standard anyway) and with the ADBA Im pretty sure he would be limited to fun shows. I think someone could chime in to correct me if I'm wrong


Yes you could do fun shows with WP in adba but not at a real show. You could also enter fun classes like judges choice.

Shana the head pop is the head filling out as he matures


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

to me he looks more like a UKC style show dog than an Amstaff or ADBA APBT


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I wish you had a straight on shot of his face. It's something about the facial structure that screams another breed to me, but he is still young and has those funky markings which play with the eye.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

do you wanna see his parents?


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> to me he looks more like a UKC style show dog than an Amstaff or ADBA APBT


ukc style show dog meaning like a show and go?


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Indigo Bully Connection said:


> I wish you had a straight on shot of his face. It's something about the facial structure that screams another breed to me, but he is still young and has those funky markings which play with the eye.


i got a great shot of his face lemme dig it up!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)




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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

Booo i can't tell with those hard butt Red Xs


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Oz I mean UKC because he has a lot of bone and he just looks more of what you see in the UKC ring. Amstaffs have less upper arm and are more square, I know the word I was looking for, he looks like a pitterstaff a combo of the two.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

OK! I was treading carefully before I said pitterstaff but his dam looks straight up like she's from smaller game lines, while his sire is the one with the larger bone structure. I have seen more dogs from "lines", but none of them look too bully or even AST, and without a ped I will forever be Stumped. I guess pitterstaff would be as good of a guess as one could make. 

It makes me happy to be able to see what it is about my dog that really shines and what about him is considered a fault. Like I said I feel like I know my dog more when I could point out this and that.. Thanks for the Help shana and lisa!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

All dogs have faults I could sit here and pick apart many of my dogs too. but he really doesn't have any faults since he is a house dog and a pet


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> All dogs have faults I could sit here and pick apart many of my dogs too. but he really doesn't have any faults since he is a house dog and a pet


a WORKING pet AHEM AHEM hehehehehe


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

StaffyDaddy said:


> No he will not be showing, he is not registered, but I just want to show that I can recognize faults, and can sure as heck take criticism because that is what knowing your dog and understand these breeds is about. Knowing what is pet quality, show, performance or breeding stock. I never plan to breed, but I plan to know what it takes to fall into any of those categories!


staffy i like your attitude. as for chino....to me....he looks great good muscle structure and nice color. I like how is patches have that brindle in it. Sorry cant really help you out with faults because to me....he looks awesome. Plus i have no experience with show dogs.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

boogiebot said:


> staffy i like your attitude. as for chino....to me....he looks great good muscle structure and nice color. I like how is patches have that brindle in it. Sorry cant really help you out with faults because to me....he looks awesome. Plus i have no experience with show dogs.
> 
> quick question...you said that he is AST mix. what is he mixed with?


Well because of his bigger bone structure and what his dad looked like compared to the mother, I was told AST mix, but being mixed with APBT, which is informally known as a pitterstaff. He is too thick to be APBT, but not quite as stocky as the AKC AST (American Staffordshire Terrier)


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## Joseph_Norfleet (Sep 23, 2009)

what do u mean by "easty westy"?


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

Joseph_Norfleet said:


> what do u mean by "easty westy"?


Front feet that go in opposite directions.


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## boogiebot (Oct 7, 2009)

staffy sorry i edited my post since i saw that you already posted what chinos mom and dad were. whatever his mix i dont think anyone can deny you have a great looking pet.

BTW post more pics of the pup. shes cute has heck


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