# Victoria Stillwell or Cesar Milan???



## Brianchris (Oct 22, 2010)

Who do you prefer and why?

Personally, I prefer Victoria because she is no nonsense, cut the BS, see through the lies, honest, straight to the point type of trainer. Cesar says he rehabilitates dogs,and trains people, but she does the same thing, with more effective results, IMO.. 

who's techniques and beliefs do you practice and why?

:-D 

guess its also because im a sucker for a british accent HAHA. JK..:hammer:

OH AND THE DOMINATRIX look LOL


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Ah I like Victoria's riding crop lol Don't really like either one to be honest.


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## Brianchris (Oct 22, 2010)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Ah I like Victoria's riding crop lol Don't really like either one to be honest.


:rofl::rofl::rofl: TRUE TRUE


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Victoria is better looking. That's about the only difference for me.


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Neither are really the way I train...But I would choose Victoria over Cesar because her techniques are much safer for the general public to try. And overall, better for a happy dog.

A bunch of good links/information.
TV Trainers - Don't Try This At Home - DOG WILLING Positive Dog Training Solutions

Dog Whisper provoking dogs, according to staff...This is a clip from their 100th episode show.





I would never support this type of training, poor handling of a fearful dog.


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## dmcfall13 (Aug 18, 2010)

I like Victoria better but really don't care for either. I honestly think asking questions here about training and following the advice you get is 1 of the best sources for training or info. Everyone here that gives advice, in my eyes is passionate about the breed, and know what they are talking about by experience. And you can't ask for a better resource when it comes to training or raising a APBT at least to me. But that's just my .2¢


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## snsg2h (Mar 26, 2011)

Victoria is awful. She never deals with tough cases like Cesar....I think she is great for obedience training, just terrible for any kind of rehabilitation issues like aggression, etc. I agree that some of Cesar's methods it can be dangerous but that is why it says on his show "do not attempt these techniques without consulting a professional" - I personally like Cesar better, but I use both trainers techniques depending on the situation.


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I've only seen Ceasers shows on you tube, and they are usually the "bad" episodes, also read some recounts of his show that I didn't care for. I have seen Victoria's show a lot. I do like what I've seen on Victoria's show.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

I never went by either. infact..don't like either show.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

never heard of victoria , mnaybe american thing? I like cesear but wouldnt use ll his methods , I do like some things though. And getting a fearful dog up the stairs how else are you going to do it? that dog was like that for his entire life they tried enticing him up and bribing him many times and the dog wont face his fears on his own. I wouldnt want a fearful dog and I think he did the right thing there by forcing him to go up , JMO { the dog was big not like he could carry him up lol}


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## peachesmommy (Oct 11, 2010)

I like Cesar. I've watched his show and also own some of his DVDs and read his books. I have used his methods on my dog and had wonderful results. I've been watching Victoria and I really don't care much for her training. She doesn't like prong collars, doesn't like crates, doesn't like this, doesn't like that, She's just too nit picky for me. Cesar is the one also who got me into pit bulls. From watching his show and reading. He explains the breed very well.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

I like both to an extent but I think it's best to consult a professional licensed trainer & get their perspective on certain methods before following through to make sure the discipline is applied correctly. :roll:



angelbaby said:


> never heard of victoria , mnaybe american thing? I like cesear but wouldnt use ll his methods , I do like some things though. And getting a fearful dog up the stairs how else are you going to do it? that dog was like that for his entire life they tried enticing him up and bribing him many times and the dog wont face his fears on his own. I wouldnt want a fearful dog and I think he did the right thing there by forcing him to go up , JMO { the dog was big not like he could carry him up lol}


Victoria's on that show on APL - It's me or the dog
This is the most popular episode haha


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> never heard of victoria , mnaybe american thing? I like cesear but wouldnt use ll his methods , I do like some things though. And getting a fearful dog up the stairs how else are you going to do it? that dog was like that for his entire life they tried enticing him up and bribing him many times and the dog wont face his fears on his own. I wouldnt want a fearful dog and I think he did the right thing there by forcing him to go up , JMO { the dog was big not like he could carry him up lol}


I have worked with many fearful dogs. My own dog was fearful of getting into a car that was started. He used to be scared of crates. I've worked with dogs that were fearful off all kinds of things, from shiny surfaces, to blow dryers.

That is not how to make a dog face their fears. Dogs don't think like that, that is called learned helplessness.

We start of teaching a dog what the clicker is, and get them so that they understand shaping. We then click and reward for every movement towards that certain object. We gradually decrease distance, and never had bad results with this. It's called patience, the results aren't instant like a lot of people want them to be.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I dont think cesears methods are instant either, alot of people get that idea though figure it was 1 episode it cant be that long. I think there are more then 1 proper way to train a dog and thats where you run into people bashing other trainers not everyone is going to agree and not 1 person is always right. I think if you can take methods that work for you even if its from various trainers then thats fine, I know there are training methods I think are repulsive and yet others swear by them , to each there own I guess. the fact is cesear does get results and his dogs do seem to live harmoniously together for the most part , are there yard accidents on his yard? probably , has anyone here had yard accidents ever? most have { those with numerous dogs} I think anyone in the spot light is going to be hated on out of jealousy or just people blowing things out of porportion i truely believe if he was horrible and cruel there would be people up his a$# pressing charges and big media scandals going on about it all. if you dont like someones methods cesear or anyone else thats your right and thats fair but to act like someone is cruel and an animal abuser because you dont agree with the methods is absurd. JMO looking at it from both sides and there are people out there on Tv training animals I dont agree with but wouldnt call them abusers because of my opinion on there techniques.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I think Victoria is OK, but what we dont see on camera is what I want to know. I mean one time she had a pit bull who was too crazy, according to the mother and grandmother, and only got about a half hour walk A WEEK, and had to go the bathroom on a pool deck day in and day out. UMMMM no mention that they got the wrong dog for not getting proper exercise and there were 2 teenagers. She touched on it slightly, but could have been dealt with better. 

The latest one I saw had a great dane that still went the bathroom in the house. TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE and she didnt even get into that part (although i could have fallen asleep before the end now that I think of it, lol)

Cesar SUCKS and I think Victoria is so much better than his methods, but every dig is different and you need to to find one that works for you and stick to it, IMO.


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

angelbaby said:


> I dont think cesears methods are instant either, alot of people get that idea though figure it was 1 episode it cant be that long. I think there are more then 1 proper way to train a dog and thats where you run into people bashing other trainers not everyone is going to agree and not 1 person is always right. I think if you can take methods that work for you even if its from various trainers then thats fine, I know there are training methods I think are repulsive and yet others swear by them , to each there own I guess. the fact is cesear does get results and his dogs do seem to live harmoniously together for the most part , are there yard accidents on his yard? probably , has anyone here had yard accidents ever? most have { those with numerous dogs} I think anyone in the spot light is going to be hated on out of jealousy or just people blowing things out of porportion i truely believe if he was horrible and cruel there would be people up his a$# pressing charges and big media scandals going on about it all. if you dont like someones methods cesear or anyone else thats your right and thats fair but to act like someone is cruel and an animal abuser because you dont agree with the methods is absurd. JMO looking at it from both sides and there are people out there on Tv training animals I dont agree with but wouldnt call them abusers because of my opinion on there techniques.


I didn't bash in my last post. I never said Cesar's results are instant, just in dealing with clients at the shelter that's an issue brought up and it's sort of a habit saying that. If you didn't like it, sorry. 
I'm not trying to argue or bash your opinion at all. I'm trying to have a discussion.

I don't see learned helplessness as results. And where is the justification in dragging a 90lb+ dog up stairs in a choke chain? At least use a flat collar.

Learned helplessness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to Victoria not handling serious cases, did you see the one where she worked with a very dog aggressive Boxer that had bit a man and his dog during the video?

Also, you shouldn't correct aggression like he does. It simply suppresses the behavior.


> 1) The methods you are using may not appropriate for his or her issues. People who are using aversive or punishing methods to suppress the behavior will often find that they are increasing the anxiety rather than decreasing it. This means while the behavior may be temporarily suppressed, the dog's mood and attitude towards his triggers have not been improved.


He also doesn't understand dominance truly...He's even said that a dog was being dominant by playing with a lazer pointer. And darting out the door isn't dominance, the dog is likely excited for a walk or has to use the restroom badly.
A dog pulling on the lead isn't dominant...The dog is lacking training.
Millan's Theory - Can Only Be Called Dog Crap - Steve Dale's Pet World

Some good techniques don't make the bad ones tolerable. :/

The only reason I'm not speaking out against Victoria is that I haven't seen many of her shows, whilst I used to be an avid fan of Cesar.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

sorry , my comment wasnt directed towards you personally , im not arguing at all just having a discussion , i guess things can get twisted when its online lol. there are alot of people hating on certain trainers who are on tv just directing it more towards the general public lol , and I agree with you it should have been done with a flat collar not a choke, I really dont like choke chains { they dont usually work on my dogs they could care less if they get choked they just keep pulling lol, found the halti works much better for mine} I have no comments for victoria i saw the clip posted but thats the only thing I have ever seen from her we must not get that show up here. we have this other trainer ona show called ' at the end of my leash' and I think the guy is a a%$ and cant get past him and his comments to people and how he butts into very personal issues with couples that isnt anything to do with training , that i cant even get into to his methods lol. I have yet to meet a dog trainer in person or on tv that I agree with 100% of what they do , so I think as a dog owner you need to find what works for you and your dog, nothing saying 1 method will work on all dogs each can be very different and need different methods.
sorry celstial if it came across as arguing with you lol , good example is just this 2 people will view different methods differently as well.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

They both suck but Victoria is hot and she has a BA riding crop.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

lmao a riding crop? for what?


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

angelbaby said:


> lmao a riding crop? for what?


Helllloooo dominatrix! lol


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

lmao ... nice combo for professions I guess lol


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Lol, no problem at all. I do dislike the internet for that :/ You cannot tell the person's tone of voice, their expression, nothing. It comes off as how you read it, so I try to read everything neutrally but still get things twisted. 

I think safer methods should be displayed on TV. Even if you put a "don't try this at home" label on it, people will still do it. 

As for "at the end of my leash" that would be Brad Pattison...Hate that guy...He's proof you can be abusive and still be on TV without charges...The guy is an idiot, he had an aggressive dog case. So what does he do from the get go? The family has the dog in their backyard running loose playing with them. And he comes in without notifying them and lets his dog in the backyard...!...The aggressive dog charges and he tries to hit him but it goes right past him and attacks his dog...I wanted to slap him...You just don't set a dog up to fail like that.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

nah I cant even watch him anymore cocky attitude and know it all personality drives me nuts , I will turn cesear on if nothing else is on but wouldnt turn 'at the end of my leash' on everrrrrr. guy is a clown.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> They both suck but Victoria is hot and she has a BA riding crop.


Pardon the interuption - lol - but what is a riding crop??:hammer:haha


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Lex's Guardian said:


> Pardon the interuption - lol - but what is a riding crop??:hammer:haha


Used for riding horses


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

:rofl: Y'all are funny.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

lauren where is the smart butt smiley you have? i think it needs to be applied to YOU LOLOLOLOLOLOL


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## Angie (Jul 2, 2010)

I don't like either but I take bits of what they offer. I believe in cesar's three "rules" exercise, discipline and affection. And victoria's positive training I guess... I feel like Cesar and Victoria are two different things though. She touches more on dog obedience (man driven) while Cesar focuses on more of the dog psychology like exercise is the key thing for him.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Angie said:


> I don't like either but I take bits of what they offer. I believe in cesar's three "rules" exercise, discipline and affection. And victoria's positive training I guess... I feel like Cesar and Victoria are two different things though. She touches more on dog obedience (man driven) while Cesar focuses on more of the dog psychology like exercise is the key thing for him.


I think you're right on the money with this. No one should watch shows like these and take them at face value. They both have good and bad points (I won't even start on Cesar's statements about "pit bulls") but the bottom line is that people should get out into the real world with real advice to train their dogs.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

The question should be who is the bigger moron,then maybee i could post a serious answer, then again maybee i couldnt.


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## snsg2h (Mar 26, 2011)

I agree with angelbaby!!! Well said!


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Recently came across this article on a study.
Using 'Dominance' To Explain Dog Behavior Is Old Hat


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

interesting article,I think some of that is true but there are many different sources for aggression they touched more on fear aggression , and I agree if you try to enforce dominance by force like grabbing jowels or hitting its gonna cause them to fear you. I still feel like you need to establish alpha with your dogs and it does help,a dog who thinks he is alpha in the home is just as likely to be aggressive and dangerous as a dog with fear aggression. I just think there are alot more options to achieve this that they didnt even touch on. I do make my dogs wait till I go through the door 1st or down/up stairs ect but this is a big safety issue as well you dont need your dog pushing you down the stairs.


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Who goes put the door first has nothing to do with dominance. Since the true meaning of dominance is the one who controls resources. Yes, you should establish you are the leader, but you shouldn't base your training completely around that.

I do agree that it's good to do it for your safety and the safety of a dog. I teach my dogs to wait for me to go out the door, this also helps when you're bringing in the groceries late at night. 

Not trying to pick or anything, but. The people who studied wolf behavior and originally wrote the books on wolf behavior that a lot of people base their dog training around, said their self that they shared false information. The term "alpha" does not have anything to do with leadership, the alpha dog is simply the mating pair.


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