# APBT -> Staffordshire -> American Staffordshire (are all these categorized as pits?)



## Beautynut (Sep 9, 2008)

*APBT -> Staffordshire -> American Staffordshire (are all these categorized as pits?)*

Again, I am still learning, so I have a question.

*Are these breeds all considered 'pit bulls'?

American Pit Bull terrier
Staffordshire Bull terrier
American StaffordshireBull terrier*

The Staffordshire are the bullies, right?
These are considered part of the 'bully breed'?

Well, if I'm thinking correctly- wouldn't the American Pit Bull terrier be THE ONLY 'true, real' "pit bull" breed?

Why and how did the Staffordshire get involved?

I check out this book: American Pit Bull Terrier (2004) by Steve Visuddhidham, and this is what it says:



> The background of the APBT comes from the English and Irish pit-fighting dogs of the mid-19th century.
> 
> At one time the APBT, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and American Staffordshire Terrier were considered to be the same breed.
> 
> ...


Someone please explain this to me.

Thank you!


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

well legally, any dog that is identified by an authority, police, ac, or even a mailman as a pitbull. means its a pitbull in the eyes of the law and will be judged by their identification. it doesnt really matter what it is, bsl will effect any dog identified as 1.. even if its a mistaken ID.
I know a beagle mix from highland park that needs a pitbull licsence because the mail man was affraid of it and said it was a "PIT" now the poor old lady has to spend an extra 500.00 a year for a special licsence.


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## Beautynut (Sep 9, 2008)

*What?
Unbelievable!*
There are mistaken constantly.


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## ForPits&Giggles (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes all three are considered "pits" in most BSL laws, but also at Redog pointed out many dogs are called pits just because of mistaken ID. But as far as considering Staffies to be "bullies", this is not true, atleast not in my opinion. These dogs were just bred to be a bit shorter through selective breeding, I dont think they were ever crossed. Then again I could be wrong, Ive just never heard Staffordshire's to be considered "bullies".


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## Beautynut (Sep 9, 2008)

> But as far as considering Staffies to be "bullies", this is not true, atleast not in my opinion. These dogs were just bred to be a bit shorter through selective breeding, I dont think they were ever crossed. Then again I could be wrong, Ive just never heard Staffordshire's to be considered "bullies".


Thank you.

YES, PLEASE correct me if wrong, because I'm definitely unsure about this!


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

I have an AmStaff, and do not consider him a bully nor a pitbull. Most people _mistake_ him for a pitbull, but IMO staffies, APBTs and bullies are all different. At least this is what I am learning from this site. Also, staffs and Enlish/Bull terriers can be registered AKC, but pitbulls and bullies can't. For the reason you would have to ask someone more knowledgeable than myself.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Yes they are all "pitbulls". Pitbull is a slang term that describes a bully breed. A bully breed is anything from a boxer, bulldog, pitbull, ect. Do not get that confused with an American Bully or AB. An AB is a APBT that was bred with different breeds like the English bulldog or American bulldog or neo mastiff. An AB is highly debated because for years people paper hung (lied about who was the sire or dam of the litter) and said they were APBT's but common sense and logic will tell you by looking at the dog it is mixed. So now an AB has become their own breed and many are now calling them AB and not APBT's. AB blood lines include razor's edge, Gotti, some watch dog, ect.

American Staffordshire Terriers are similar to APBT's. They were originally APBT's that registered with the AKC. Then many years of breeding and a small gene pool has created a new breed, who compared to the APBT is very different in drive and temperament.

Staffordshire Bull Terriers came first and the APBT was bred off them when they came to America. If I am wrong a SBT person will correct me.

So yes they are different breeds today but remember the slang word "pitbull" just describes the group of dogs not an individual breed.


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## ForPits&Giggles (Oct 21, 2008)

Jenna23 said:


> I have an AmStaff, and do not consider him a bully nor a pitbull. Most people _mistake_ him for a pitbull, but IMO staffies, APBTs and bullies are all different. At least this is what I am learning from this site. Also, staffs and Enlish/Bull terriers can be registered AKC, but pitbulls and bullies can't. For the reason you would have to ask someone more knowledgeable than myself.


The AKC wanted to go in a show direction instead of a fighting position (which is what the UKC was started for mostly) so the AKC registered Pitbulls as "Stafforshire Terriers" and they were then bred for a cold temperment so they wouldnt be aggressive in the show ring. As the English Staffie was coming into its own they began registering the American dogs as "American Staffordshire Terriers". Thats the basic of why AKC has Staffie's but not Pits.


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## razors_edge (Jun 2, 2009)

they do get mistaken quite often...there are alot of animals in shelters that are considered "pitbulls" and they dont even have the same characteristics as pitbulls.....APBT and the AMBULLY are different and owners of apbts get mad when u consider ur bully an apbt, they get mad because the bully is registered as a APBT on the ukc paperwork.....i didnt know this either i thought that my RE dog was an APBT because thats what it says on its paperwork, until the STAFFDADDY told me that my dog was a bully because of its bloodline, so i consider it a bully instead of an apbt now.....there is a whole lot of history behind these dogs and the history is very detailed, i love my bully though and im proud to own one.....


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## kstr0h (May 10, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> Yes they are all "pitbulls". Pitbull is a slang term that describes a bully breed. A bully breed is anything from a boxer, bulldog, pitbull, ect. Do not get that confused with an American Bully or AB. An AB is a APBT that was bred with different breeds like the English bulldog or American bulldog or neo mastiff. An AB is highly debated because for years people paper hung (lied about who was the sire or dam of the litter) and said they were APBT's but common sense and logic will tell you by looking at the dog it is mixed. So now an AB has become their own breed and many are now calling them AB and not APBT's. AB blood lines include razor's edge, Gotti, some watch dog, ect.
> 
> American Staffordshire Terriers are similar to APBT's. They were originally APBT's that registered with the AKC. Then many years of breeding and a small gene pool has created a new breed, who compared to the APBT is very different in drive and temperament.
> 
> ...


it does describe a indiviual breed, american PITBULL terrier.


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## ForPits&Giggles (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes "American Pitbull Terrier" is a breed, but "pitbull" is slang for any dog that may have been used in the [ ].


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

ForPits&Giggles said:


> The AKC wanted to go in a show direction instead of a fighting position (which is what the UKC was started for mostly) so the AKC registered Pitbulls as "Stafforshire Terriers" and they were then bred for a cold temperment so they wouldnt be aggressive in the show ring. As the English Staffie was coming into its own they began registering the American dogs as "American Staffordshire Terriers". Thats the basic of why AKC has Staffie's but not Pits.


TY, for the answer. I knew they were registered different, but didn't know the reason behind it.


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## Inf602 (Apr 13, 2009)

Yes, each one of those dogs are considered Pitbulls due to the uneducated people in society today. Anything that strikes fear into someone else will be considered a Pitbull. Sad to say but many dogs will be considered Pitbulls and they really aren't.


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

bringing up old news, but it is a good example of what Inf602 is referring too, When the SF dog "mauling" happened (diane whipple) the media reported the dogs as massive extemely aggressive "pitbulls". However, the dogs were not pitbulls, the were Presa Canario (Perro de Presa Canario, Dogo Canario, Canary Dog), which do in fact look like AmBullies, but are distinctly different dogs. I they originated in the Canary Islands. They are a cross between Bardino Majero and English Mastiffs.

But if I am not mistaken I believe the Presa now too falls under the "pitbull" umbrella. I could be wrong and correct me if I am.


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## Inf602 (Apr 13, 2009)

Yes it is definitely a shame that the media and even the law can just easily just generalize any bred muscular dog as a pitbull but the reality is that many people have given each and everyone one of those dogs a bad rap. I know that both my APBT and Bully are very good dogs and I get looks everyday when I bring them outside the house. I recently moved in the neighborhood and although everyone has dogs, I still get the looks. I am a responsible owner and make sure that my dogs are well supervised and are always on leashes but stupid have stupid thoughts.


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

Inf602 said:


> Yes it is definitely a shame that the media and even the law can just easily just generalize any bred muscular dog as a pitbull but the reality is that many people have given each and everyone one of those dogs a bad rap. I know that both my APBT and Bully are very good dogs and I get looks everyday when I bring them outside the house. I recently moved in the neighborhood and although everyone has dogs, I still get the looks. I am a responsible owner and make sure that my dogs are well supervised and are always on leashes but stupid have stupid thoughts.


I feel you there. When I walk kaiser people grab their kids like he's going to break off leash, or they step off the side walk (granted if they don't make me lol  i hate that!)


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## Beautynut (Sep 9, 2008)

> I know that both my APBT and Bully are very good dogs and I get looks everyday when I bring them outside the house. I recently moved in the neighborhood and although everyone has dogs, I still get the looks. I am a responsible owner and make sure that my dogs are well supervised and are always on leashes but stupid have stupid thoughts.


Amen!

My dog can look at another dog- wanting to play, and people automatically assume she wants to fight.

A chiwawa barks and carries on more than she does, and it would never get looked at twice.

However, I know that is part of having a pit, and I do respect other people and make sure that she is leashed and in my care.

However, it aggrevates me when everyone categorizes pits into the same exact category.

If we do that to humans, it is discrimination because of one or two (really more than that) bad people.

Are ALL humans alike? 
I don't think so, neither are animals.

HUH!


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## Inf602 (Apr 13, 2009)

I agree, all humans are not alike. The same with dogs. I am the same way when it comes to people and there kids and dogs as well. I try to respect poeple when they are walking there dogs but I feel that my dogs and I deserve the same type of respect. Unfortunately this is not nor will it be the case. Hopefully one day with the help of us responsible owners, we can get the message across.


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## Beautynut (Sep 9, 2008)

Exactly!
Well said!

Once people 'allow me and Zar' the opportunity to meet us, their opinion slowly changes when they interact with her.

They compliment on her temperament.

Funny how experience and knowledge changes things.
Too bad many people don't take that chance.
Their pea size brain might exploid.


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## Inf602 (Apr 13, 2009)

I know the feeling all too well. I mean as a responsible owner, you will do everything you can to show how good your dogs can be. I know I have had issues with my older one now that he is a year old he is "testing the waters" and I recognize that so, I have been giving him more 1 on 1 time due to that and I am careful who I bring him around. The younger one is such a sweetheart but she has the looks of a dog that wants to jump on you. That is the case but she just wants to kiss you to death.


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## Beautynut (Sep 9, 2008)

AW!
So, one is a little more unpredictable than the other (the older one)?

Once, I was squatting down playing with a Boster Terrier (that was lost and we were returning him to his owners at home), and they had a large male Pit bull. While I was squatting down, he ran up to me quickly - near my face, and I was terrified, but as soon as he came up to me, he started licking me and loving on me. It was so sweet.

The owners knew that he wouldn't hurt me, but I was scared for a second there, but that goes to show that dogs don't always act the way that they appear. 
LOL

He was thanking us for bringing his little buddy home!
LOL


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

kstr0h said:


> it does describe a indiviual breed, american PITBULL terrier.


PITBULL is not a breed it is spelled American Pit Bull Terrier that is a true breed. PITBULL describes "pit" dogs in general and is a slang term not a breed!:hammer:

Pit Bull is 2 words and takes another meaning when you spell it pitbull. Pitbull is the common uneducated term........:flush:


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## kstr0h (May 10, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> PITBULL is not a breed it is spelled American Pit Bull Terrier that is a true breed. PITBULL describes "pit" dogs in general and is a slang term not a breed!:hammer:
> 
> Pit Bull is 2 words and takes another meaning when you spell it pitbull. Pitbull is the common uneducated term........:flush:


whatever, pitbull, pit bull haha. to me its the same thing. when i here "pitbull" i always think of apbt.


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## jeep lex (Jan 29, 2009)

kstr0h said:


> whatever, pitbull, pit bull haha. to me its the same thing. when i here "pitbull" i always think of apbt.


the only reason you think apbt when you hear pitbull is because you know what an apbt is, the other day in the park i overheard someone call my apbt a fake pitbull because her head wasnt big enough:hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer:
i couldnt even say anything to that person because its not there fault they really think that a pit is a big headed blue beast that is 2 inches off the ground the media and clueless bybs needs to stop raping our dogs of everything they have


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## Beautynut (Sep 9, 2008)

> its not there fault they really think that a pit is a big headed blue beast that is 2 inches off the ground


:hammer::hammer::hammer:


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## Inf602 (Apr 13, 2009)

I hear you on that. As I have mentioned in the past I own both an APBT and a Bully and mostly everyone that doesn't know better just calls them both Pitbulls. I make it clear to them that one is an APBT and the other is a American Bully, although there truly is not a breed called American Bully (words used by Louis B. Colby). It just seems that anything they see that they don't automatically know the name of will be considered a Pitbull and the only thing we can do is inform them.


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

jeep lex said:


> the only reason you think apbt when you hear pitbull is because you know what an apbt is, the other day in the park i overheard someone call my apbt a fake pitbull because her head wasnt big enough:hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer:
> i couldnt even say anything to that person because its not there fault they really think that a pit is a big headed blue beast that is 2 inches off the ground the media and clueless bybs needs to stop raping our dogs of everything they have


:rofl: When I walk my brother in laws dog, people are always, says aww sweet pitbull, or asking if I want to breed him, I'm like he's not a "pitbull" he's an ambully. and they go , looks like a pitbull to me! :stick:
MoeMoe lol this was a while a go, he's about 95 lbs now.

Kaiser and Moe (only sitting pretty b/c I held a cookie in front of them lol)


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## cmartinp28 (May 18, 2009)

actually... same goes with me, just got a staffy bull terrier puppy and the first day i took it out at 12 weeks old, i got "what a cute pitbull", "is that a pitbull puppy"etc. .... added up to about 10 people saying it was a pitbull, i first explained it was a staffordshire bull terrier to the first one and then realized that it was a losing battle to explain everytime, so i just ended up nodding yes everyone that said he was a pitbull. hehe


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## Beautynut (Sep 9, 2008)

Jenna,
They look so focused, but they all do when you hold a tempting cookie in front of them, right?

LOL!
Love it!

What kind of dog is Moe, again?


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## los44 (Jun 1, 2008)

the term "pitbull" describes the apbt and various associated breeds by definition. if it looks like a pitbull then its a pitbull NO IF ANDS OR BUTS! thats why i believe that all the pitbull owners should fight under one flag so to speak but instead we get caught up in the notion(s) of my dog is _______ and your dog is ______. it is utter nonsense imo, because when they come for our dogs and they will come, they will be coming for them all, bullys/ast's/apbts/ab ect.


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

Beautynut said:


> What kind of dog is Moe, again?


I believe he is an AmBully, he's a beast, I think he weighs about 100lbs and is far form standard so with what I've learned that's what I'm banking on. He looks more mastiffish to me but thats just MO. Bah and he slobbers like one lol


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

Jenna23 said:


> bringing up old news, but it is a good example of what Inf602 is referring too, When the SF dog "mauling" happened (diane whipple) the media reported the dogs as massive extemely aggressive "pitbulls". However, the dogs were not pitbulls, the were Presa Canario (Perro de Presa Canario, Dogo Canario, Canary Dog), which do in fact look like AmBullies, but are distinctly different dogs. I they originated in the Canary Islands. They are a cross between Bardino Majero and English Mastiffs.
> 
> But if I am not mistaken I believe the Presa now too falls under the "pitbull" umbrella. I could be wrong and correct me if I am.


Don't mean to sound like a ass so forgive me,but i think the actual description was a "pitbull on steriods",that is how they where described.
And the modern day presa is much much more than bardino majero and mastiff,just clearing up some info,they are the result of a massive rescue/restoration attempt using many many breeds including apbt/am saff[no am bully].Basically a papered bandog in all respects.


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

cane76 said:


> Don't mean to sound like a ass so forgive me,but i think the actual description was a "pitbull on steriods",that is how they where described.
> And the modern day presa is much much more than bardino majero and mastiff,just clearing up some info,they are the result of a massive rescue/restoration attempt using many many breeds including apbt/am saff[no am bully].Basically a papered bandog in all respects.


No offense taken, I call my dog snoopy on steroids.

I knew there was a restoration of the breed, but I am not greatly familiar with it so I didn't want to speak on something I didn't know about.


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## Beautynut (Sep 9, 2008)

Moe is huge!
Thank you for your reply.


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