# Tis' the season to poison our dogs.....



## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

*Laboratory studies of ingredients in seven popular flea and tick control products reveal adverse health effects in all animals tested. The effects of these well known and aggressively marketed products range from convulsions, body tremors and labored breathing to thyroid cancer, brain lesions, and liver and lung tumors. Yet TV commercials with trusty looking veterinarians pitch only the happy side of these products.

Which flea and tick pesticide are you using on your dog and/or cat? If your favorite treatment contains the active ingredient Fipronil, Imidacloprid, Methoprene, Permethrin, Pyriproxyfen or the inert ingredient Butyldydroxytoluene, Butylhydroxanisole, Carbitol, Ethanol, or Polyvinlpyrrplidone, you need to know about the not-so-happy side of these products as well.

If you think your veterinarian or local pet store would never sell you such a sinister poison, think again.

Advantage (Bayer Corporation), Adams Spot-On Flea & Tick Control (Farnam Pet Products), BioSpot Flea & Tick Control (Farnam Pet Products), Defend EXspot Treatment (Schering-Plough Animal Health), Frontline Top Spot (Merial Limited), Frontline Plus (Merial Limited), and Zodiac FleaTrol Spot On (Wellmark International) - all contain one or more of the aforementioned active or inert ingredients.

Toxicology and morbidity findings from these pesticide products were gathered over a decade of laboratory testing by the United States Environmental Protection Agency; Occupational Safety & Health Administration, U.S. Department of Labor; Extension Toxicology Network; Journal of Pesticide Reform; Pesticide Action Network North America and other sources, with additional information supplied by Material Safety Data Sheets.

Most testing was performed for the benefit of new product manufacturers in order to qualify for EPA registration. Scientists overdose laboratory animals to determine how much of the product will kill 50% of the test population. Information is then extrapolated and assumptions made that may apply to domestic animals and human beings.

According to laboratory tests, Fipronil (Frontline Top Spot and Frontline Plus) is a neurotoxin and suspected human cancer agent. Fipronil can cause liver toxicity, thyroid cancer, kidney damage, raised cholesterol, lack of coordination, labored breathing, miscarriages and stunted offspring.

Laboratory testing of Imidacloprid (Advantage) on mice, dogs and rats shows this insecticide to be neurotoxic to laboratory animals, also causing a breakdown of coordination, labored breathing, lesions of the thyroid, reduced birth weight, and increased birth defects.

The synthetic broad spectrum pyrethroid insecticide Permethrin (Adams Spot-on Flea & Tick Control; BioSpot Flea & Tick Control; and Defend EXspot Treatment) shows indications of being an endocrine disrupter and the cause of lung cancer and liver tumors in laboratory animals.

Methoprene and Pyriproxyfen (Zodiac FleaTrol Spot On; and BioSpot Flea & Tick Control) are known as insect growth regulators (IGR), both of which restrict the growth of fleas to the juvenile stage where reproduction is not possible. Laboratory testing reveals that Methoprene causes enlarged livers and degeneration of the kidneys.

Unfortunately, few people actually read EPA test results. Fewer still want to hear about the many laboratory test subjects (unwanted dogs and cats) killed during and after the studies in order to determine damage to specific systems and organs. But it only takes a few people with straightforward thinking to bring about change. Are you ready to stop this insanity? There are effective alternatives, as you know.

Today there are totally natural flea and tick remedies - completely harmless to kids, pets and the environment - made from pure botanical essential oils. Some natural products work fairly well, some don't, and some work much better than the toxic stuff!

The mode of action - the way these natural remedies kill fleas and ticks - is to disrupt the insect's ability to function by blocking a substance called octopamine. In nature, certain plants have developed a natural defense against bugs. These "octopamine blockers" in plants are extracted as oils and used as active ingredients. Octopamine is to an insect what adrenalin is to a human. When blocked from the system, the insect quickly dies. No muss, no fuss. Nobody gets hurt but the bug.

Please begin today to stop supporting the heartless laboratory testing of innocent animals, the insidious cover-up and rush to market of big business, and the unwitting harm we may be doing to our children, our pets, and our planet.*


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Great post my vet actually told me all this last year Soooo glad we switched to the garlic and yeast pills something so much more natural and no toxic risks toour dogs again. Lokis breeder used to get so mad at us when we used Advantage on him he swore it would cause cancer and we were really clueless thought he was off his rocker until our vet talked with us about them and confirmed the findings . If you can go natural why wouldnt you? these treatments are alot more expensive then a bottle of garlic pills or even go fresh garlic, well worth the switch if it works for you like it has for our dogs.


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

Eh. If people in Europe use them on there kids for lice, good enough for me.
Garlic pills huh? Something I want to look into.


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## bluefamily (Aug 8, 2007)

yes but garlic reportedly causes anemia....does anyone have a safe dosage?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

there is a safe dosage if you use search , I just use the pills from the petstore and they are dosed 1 pill for every 10lbs , but the fresh is a pretty small dosage.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

So is there a safe and proven products for tick control that really work? Interesting article thanks for posting.

It does make sense and I have been saying it for years when these threads come up. Dogs have reactions to these drugs all the time, some are works than others but many reactions can be deadly. I always swear by the bio spot but I would be willing to switch to a natural remedy if there is one that really works. We do not have fleas only ticks here in NM.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

see we are opposite we only have fleas { although our vet gets us to vaccinate for ticks he says we do have them in our forests which i live beside lol} but have yet to ever see a tick here. Not sure if garlic would work for ticks I have no experience with those.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Ah, I like chemicals I'll stick to Revolution or Advantage Multi.... Every dog I've ever owned has been on it and never had any problems.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

It's weird how fleas are unheard of here but you never get ticks  We had them so bad one year you could literally see hundreds of the crawling in the trees and on the ground. It was horrible!! Since then I have not had to treat the dogs I have only seen a few. some seasons are worse than others.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Ah, I like chemicals I'll stick to Revolution or Advantage Multi.... Every dog I've ever owned has been on it and never had any problems.


:goodpost:I here that ... Your not going to poison your dog with the proper dosages ... I have never had a dog die or exp bad reactions from flea preventative. In fact I treated one of the worst cases of Flea Bite Dermatitis with them and now she suffer's no more.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> It's weird how fleas are unheard of here but you never get ticks  We had them so bad one year you could literally see hundreds of the crawling in the trees and on the ground. It was horrible!! Since then I have not had to treat the dogs I have only seen a few. some seasons are worse than others.


thats creepy there could be that many , I really dont even know what they look like other then the pictures I seen lol.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Everyone can do what they want....It's your perogative and your animal.....I personally would never let that crap touch my dogs skin. The info is out there and needs to be shared so people can choose what is best. Most people don't research what they put on there pets. They just do what they think is best and what the vets say. There are studies obviously of what this stuff is doing to peoples pets and I have known a few peoples dogs and cats to have severe reactions to it. There are plenty of natural alternatives to preventing flea and ticks it's just easier for people to pop open a little vile of poison and put it on there dogs skin. Just as it is easier for most people to feed kibble then to reasearch raw and feed raw. Some want to put in the effort and some don't. I have read numerous articles on spot on pesticide treatments and the dangers of them. Anyone who uses this stuff and has small children should think twice about it. My daughter hangs all over my dog and the last thing I want is to expose her to carcinogens.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

This is why you were so reluctant to dip her in prolate. You can find a study to support just about anything you want. Now a days everything you read causes cancer, it's not safe to go outside or even breath in your home. Now you can take a logical approach and be careful to what you use and how you live your life or you can worry about everything your dog and kids could come into contact with. I am more in the middle of the road when it comes to this. To each their own but you take the info you read and make the decision for yourself.
Always good to have two sides of the story so you can make an educated decision.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

My vet keeps telling me to only by the flea stuff from them,they tell me some story that the same product that is cheaper in the store,isn't the same and that it's smuggled and wont work....But it works fine.
My vet told me beia and bruno both had fleas when I took them in...They said they found it when they flea combed them....Yet I had put advantage on them a week prior AND flea checked them myself,and didn't even find flea dirt.
I'm a bit skeptical of them right now. I told them I bought the stuff from the store,and they gave me a lecture on why I needed to by the same crap from them for $20 more,because it is the" real "deal...


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Well some places you buy online sell knock off stuff and you have no real clue what you are putting on your dog. Things like Adams or the really cheap stuff I would never use. It has a higher risk of reaction because it is poorly made. There is some truth to what your vet is telling you but also they just want your money! It sounds like they are trying to use scare tactics which is very common with some vets to get more money from you.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Xiahko said:


> My vet keeps telling me to only by the flea stuff from them,they tell me some story that the same product that is cheaper in the store,isn't the same and that it's smuggled and wont work....But it works fine.
> My vet told me beia and bruno both had fleas when I took them in...They said they found it when they flea combed them....Yet I had put advantage on them a week prior AND flea checked them myself,and didn't even find flea dirt.
> I'm a bit skeptical of them right now. I told them I bought the stuff from the store,and they gave me a lecture on why I needed to by the same crap from them for $20 more,because it is the" real "deal...


My vet told me about the cheap stuff you buy from walmart or the grocery store and how it isnt controlled in any way as to the ingredients or doses that there is no govt laws making them have to stay up to par on things and can do as they like. was told the cheaper ones dont have testing or anything and he has seen bigger problems with those that use those flea tretments vs the ones like advantage and revolution ect because of the lack of product testing they do. My cat got severly ill when i used a cheaper brand i got from walmart and had to be hospitalized because of his reaction. 
However he did also tell me the same thing as above on the tests that talk about cancer and such , we had been using advantage up until last summer when it just wasnt working for us { was bad flea season} so we looked into other options and found what works for us. If the advantage works for you great if it doesnt there are other options to try.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

performanceknls said:


> This is why you were so reluctant to dip her in prolate. You can find a study to support just about anything you want. Now a days everything you read causes cancer, it's not safe to go outside or even breath in your home. Now you can take a logical approach and be careful to what you use and how you live your life or you can worry about everything your dog and kids could come into contact with. I am more in the middle of the road when it comes to this. To each their own but you take the info you read and make the decision for yourself.
> Always good to have two sides of the story so you can make an educated decision.


:goodpost:I can agree with this .. You have to be careful and you have to know what your doing and where you are getting your stuff. I don't buy anything from the vet I buy the same chemicals in these products in bulk and dose and dilute them properly OTC at lowes or home depot. I don't give out the info freely because not everyone is going to follow directions properly and anything over done or outside moderation can harm an animal.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

performanceknls said:


> This is why you were so reluctant to dip her in prolate. You can find a study to support just about anything you want. Now a days everything you read causes cancer, it's not safe to go outside or even breath in your home. Now you can take a logical approach and be careful to what you use and how you live your life or you can worry about everything your dog and kids could come into contact with. I am more in the middle of the road when it comes to this. To each their own but you take the info you read and make the decision for yourself.
> Always good to have two sides of the story so you can make an educated decision.


Correct  It's not that I am reluctant so to speak, it's just I will take the natural road before I go the harsher one. There are pros and cons to everything in life....I get that. I am not some whole foods shopping nature nut either but if I could afford to go all organic I would. Borax, ACV and/or peroxide is working wonders for Bella's skin and she looks great. I found that the borax treatment has worked wonders for many when the ivermectin, armitaz, and prolate didn't. Natural treaments can work they just take a little longer than traditional methods would. Slow and steady wins the race when it comes to "natural treatments". I consider myself middle of the road when it comes to this type of stuff as well. But I am always open minded to a more nautral cure if it's an option  Anyways, I just figure the information that is out there can be taken into consideration and is more "food for thought". Makes for a good debate too


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## r0ckah0l1c (Jan 18, 2011)

For me personally... the garlic pills don't seem to work with my dogs o_o but our cats got sick from advantage. We had to buy frontline instead. Now our cats just use this all natural flea shampoo once a month and it works fine...even when our dogs have fleas our cats don't get them. I tried to use the shampoo on our dogs and it didn't have the same effect... and I was told to use lemon juice with some other stuff to spray around the area and on their coats...that didn't work either. So for our dogs the chemical products seem to be the only way to control the situation. If the natural alternatives would've worked I would've stuck with those... its not like I am intentionally trying to harm my pets.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

r0ckah0l1c said:


> For me personally... the garlic pills don't seem to work with my dogs o_o but our cats got sick from advantage. We had to buy frontline instead. Now our cats just use this all natural flea shampoo once a month and it works fine...even when our dogs have fleas our cats don't get them. I tried to use the shampoo on our dogs and it didn't have the same effect... and I was told to use lemon juice with some other stuff to spray around the area and on their coats...that didn't work either. So for our dogs the chemical products seem to be the only way to control the situation. If the natural alternatives would've worked I would've stuck with those... its not like I am intentionally trying to harm my pets.


Thats just it you have to use what works for you , anything is better then not treating them and letting them become flea infested that would be cruel , so if the chemical treatment is the only thing that works for your dogs then thats the way to go.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> Well some places you buy online sell knock off stuff and you have no real clue what you are putting on your dog. Things like Adams or the really cheap stuff I would never use. It has a higher risk of reaction because it is poorly made. There is some truth to what your vet is telling you but also they just want your money! It sounds like they are trying to use scare tactics which is very common with some vets to get more money from you.


Yeah,this is why I continue to buy it from Costco.

ps: I am not talking generic brands I am talking Advantage and Frontline.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

All natural way to kill fleas and ticks is Diatomaceous earth. Good for fleas, flies, ticks, and can also be used as a dewormer.

Diatomaceous Earth Flea Control: Pets-Livestock-Natural Wormer. Goats-Chickens, Cattle, Dogs, Cats.
Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Garlic Pill's and ACV do NOT work! And flea's will kill your dog faster than the chemical's used to kill them will. I know guys with 40-50 dogs they all use the same methods to keep flea's off the dogs. I have seen some nasty cases of flea bite dermatitis and dog's who are heavily infested with fleas it's not pretty and it's very painful. Flea's and tick's carry disease and literally suck the life out of a dog when the dog end's up with anemia or worms the dog can die. Dog's can die from flea's and from Lyme disease. If people want to use natural remedies by all means I am going to use what will work and kill the fleas and ticks ASAP! If Ava get's one single flea bite she breaks out all over and looses hair that is what flea bite dermatitis can do to a dog who is hypersensitive it only takes ONE single bite to cause a very serious reaction.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Garlic Pill's and ACV do NOT work! .


I disagree with this we were using avantage and having to redo every 3 weeks { with finding fleas and using comb for about a week before that even} rather then the once a month they reccomend we bought chemicals for the house was vaccuming daily numerous time but it wasnt working , switched to the garlic and yeast pills and within 3 weeks they were gone and havent had an issue since. It does seem like alot Im thinking alot of people dont dose properly as they reccommend on the bottle 1 pill for every 10lbs and we give this daily. It might not work for someone who doesnt have the time to do this daily or some cases may just not work for a particular dog but it has worked for all of mine , we have neighbors battling with fleas still and are using advantage and too stubborn to switch and try this ,we havent seen 1 flea on any of mine in over a year now { I still comb about once a month to makes sure as luna is really sensitive to flea bites and breaks out if she gets them} .
I dont know about ACV for fleas I havent heard of that one and havent tried it obviously.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

angelbaby said:


> I disagree with this we were using avantage and having to redo every 3 weeks { with finding fleas and using comb for about a week before that even} rather then the once a month they reccomend we bought chemicals for the house was vaccuming daily numerous time but it wasnt working , switched to the garlic and yeast pills and within 3 weeks they were gone and havent had an issue since. It does seem like alot Im thinking alot of people dont dose properly as they reccommend on the bottle 1 pill for every 10lbs and we give this daily. It might not work for someone who doesnt have the time to do this daily or some cases may just not work for a particular dog but it has worked for all of mine , we have neighbors battling with fleas still and are using advantage and too stubborn to switch and try this ,we havent seen 1 flea on any of mine in over a year now { I still comb about once a month to makes sure as luna is really sensitive to flea bites and breaks out if she gets them} .
> I dont know about ACV for fleas I havent heard of that one and havent tried it obviously.


Do you keep your dog's out doors? The reason I ask is because a guy I know tried it with his dogs his wife is a vet tech he has about 50 dogs and it didn't work for them they are all outside on chain's and the flea's were tearing them up. Here in the south fleas are a HUGE problem and while it may work for a dog who is not exposed to fleas regularly or kept indoors most of the time it won't work for dog's kept outside or in an area that has a lot of flea problems.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Mabe thats the difference then we keep all the dogs indoor , if they are outside they are now in the kennels but that is indoor as well. Fleas are big issues up here but they do tend to die down in the winter its usually may-october is our flea season up here . I have heard people say that the cold doesnt effect them and they are year round but I dont know anyone who has to treat there dogs in the winter up here we just dont seem to have them { we dont even get snow really and not very cold the past 2 years now} Do you have them year round down there?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Yeah we get them really bad and for a dog like AVA she can't even get one single bite or she breaks out everywhere. Usually people here have their yards treated regularly for fleas because it's so bad that even the chemicals even won't work until the yards been treated ... also if you have sand laid down in the yard where the chain spots are instead of gravel that also attracts sand fleas.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Blue_Nose_Bella said:


> Correct  It's not that I am reluctant so to speak, it's just I will take the natural road before I go the harsher one. There are pros and cons to everything in life....I get that. I am not some whole foods shopping nature nut either but if I could afford to go all organic I would. Borax, ACV and/or peroxide is working wonders for Bella's skin and she looks great. I found that the borax treatment has worked wonders for many when the ivermectin, armitaz, and prolate didn't. Natural treaments can work they just take a little longer than traditional methods would. Slow and steady wins the race when it comes to "natural treatments". I consider myself middle of the road when it comes to this type of stuff as well. But I am always open minded to a more nautral cure if it's an option  Anyways, I just figure the information that is out there can be taken into consideration and is more "food for thought". Makes for a good debate too


My guess is the people who used the dips did not use them correctly or did not do the treatment long enough. It works if used properly, many people just do not know how to follow instructions! lol Borax scares me I will not touch it, same thing with putting bleach in my dogs water to get rid of algea.... won't do it! but that's just me 



Sadie said:


> Yeah we get them really bad and for a dog like AVA she can't even get one single bite or she breaks out everywhere. Usually people here have their yards treated regularly for fleas because it's so bad that even the chemicals even won't work until the yards been treated ... also if you have sand laid down in the yard where the chain spots are instead of gravel that also attracts sand fleas.


OMGosh I am so happy we do not have a flea problem where we live! I would DIE if I had to mess with those!


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Yep here in the south we have a huge problem with just about any kind of damn bug.lol.I have tons of ticks outside here.There is alot of fleas,sand fleas,no see ums,gnats,flies,huge horse flies,etc...I can't go outside with getting ate up by something.lol


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I am so happy we do not have biting flys! I visited some where that had biting flys and I just about died!! Those freak me out! LOL


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

ru kidding me ? you dont have fleas and no biting flys? what do you have besides ticks or is that it? nm sounds good lol.


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