# Dagger Dogs



## FOSTER

anybody know of any dagger blood in the mid south? 
u should check out their page, there are some bada$$ dogs coming from them. does any one have any experience dealing with them or mountain gator kennels?


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## bahamutt99

Dagger dogs are good pulldogs, but not the best bulldogs, IMO.


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## cane76

I know a guy with a a american bulldog with alot of mgk blood,as for pitbulls,them dogs is bandogs,and good at what they do......


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## FOSTER

call em what u want, there all just dogs when it comes down to it. i've gave the american bulldogs a lot of thought, its come down to mgk's or trsamericanbulldogs.com (the bootom pic on home page was taken 5 miles from my house). but sticking with the pits is probably whats going to happen for now. i like the look and work ability of the dagger blood alot, and i basically am wanting a damn good working dog.


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## cane76

FOSTER said:


> call em what u want, there all just dogs when it comes down to it. i've gave the american bulldogs a lot of thought, its come down to mgk's or trsamericanbulldogs.com (the bootom pic on home page was taken 5 miles from my house). but sticking with the pits is probably whats going to happen for now. i like the look and work ability of the dagger blood alot, and i basically am wanting a damn good working dog.


well theres good dogs to be found in alot of the xxl pull dog stuff,good for protection also,just not pure bred apbt's,oaklahoma bulldog is a more fitting term actually but bandog works just as well..


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## FOSTER

y give oklahoma all the credit?? 
have u seen the arkansas giant bulldog on the molosser site? basically a pit and eb. big and think, dont know anything about how well theyd work.


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## bahamutt99

Why give OK all the credit? Because we've got the best damn dogs, that's why. :angeldevi 

Seriously, though, I've heard them called Oklahoma bulldogs. Maybe the Whopper dogs started up here, not sure. Not the kind of thing I'd be proud of, but hey, they do pull hard. Those who've linebred on that type of dog have engineered a dog that does very well in weight pull. (Just not for me. I pull, do conformation, obedience and agility, eventually dock diving. I need a dog that is a total package, not just big n' strong. JMO of course.)


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## cane76

yes,eddie edington is was from oaklahoma...check this whopper dog out,mighty thor,god this dog is scary,lol....
























*As for a arkansaw giant bulldog,if it has english bulldog in it,i wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole,might as well get a american bully if ya wanna go that rout...*


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## BedlamBully

How does that guy stay on his feet. That dog is freakin SCAREY!


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## bahamutt99

That's interesting. I've never seen a Whopper do anything other than weight pull. (I've seen some folks try and do conformation with them, but once they get their full size, forget it.)


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## cane76

Oh yeah,there the apbt of choice in a few modern day bandog projects.
herers grit,100% whopper 
http://www.chimerakennels.com/grit.htm 
and lucy,whopper via bonacorsis porky..
http://www.chimerakennels.com/luci.htm
and a whopper dog/ofrn from loyal guard kennels.
















I personaly dont care what anyone says,these dogs work there asses off and are amazing type,make alot of ukc dogs look plain foolish....


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## bahamutt99

Okay, I will give you that they're hard workers, but what's the point of comparing a UKC-type dog with a "bandog"-type dog? (And don't crab about the use of the word bandog, because it was your wording. :cop Maybe in the sports they're competing in, they make UKC dogs look foolish, in the same way a Saluki would make a collie look foolish coursing. But since they're not bred to the same standard, its apples and oranges.

Frankly a little tired of the constant UKC bashing (from various people on various boards). UKC doesn't breed dogs or make standards, they just offer the registry. And I haven't seen a registry yet that offers all the sports that they offer our breed and that isn't confined to one small area. Its really getting old. If people don't like UKC, let them do ADBA, or AKC, or AAPBA, or whatever they want. But leave off the registry bashing already. It just sounds like sour grapes.

Sorry for the rant. Back to your regularly-scheduled program.


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## cane76

well the registrys are still registering them bahamutt as apbt,i know there not apbts but BANDOGS[THE FOUR LETTER WORD IN THE APBT COMMUNITY],but they"are" competing in the same events because the ukc,and mostly the adba are registering them as such,even when the breeders are saying hey,these dogs are ddb cross's,alittle ab,some bullmastiff and there still being registered.
Im just gonna have to face the facts the apbt registrys are basically computers ran by robots with no ability nor or power to say,hey,this dogs not a friggen apbt.and for the record,your dogs are great,and if you register them,show them and work them in the ukc,good for you,at least yours are pure bred........


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## FOSTER

thor is one helluva big bad dog


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## bahamutt99

Cane, one of the reasons that the registries are still registering them is because folks want them registered. There isn't a concerted effort to get those dogs out, neither by the UKC or the ADBA. It sucks. The national breed club needs new blood desperately, to help get the APBT back to where it should be. Until then, its headed by folks who have their own agendas, and they don't care.


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## FOSTER

sooo... no dagger blood in my area?? at least not known by board users


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## bahamutt99

Draw the Line Kennels in east Texas has Dagger, and others. So does Mealers Pit Bull Farm (not sure where they're at). If you pull, that'd be the best way to find Dagger dogs, is in their element, so to speak.


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## Figgy1682

WOW, i wish saffy had the drive to be a personal protectiom dog. i mean she chase birds all over and wont get tired but other then that she does laps around the house and comes in and lays down. can you work a dog to get this kind of drive or is it just a birth thing.


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## OldFortKennels

> Draw the Line Kennels in east Texas has Dagger


Check out James Bates's dogs, We have competed against him at several ADBA shows.

I guess its just in what you like? LB for LB though you cant beat the APBT. At a show here in TN, Switch at 48lbs out pulled a 120lb Dagger dog to win not only body pound but MWP. I dont know many big dogs winning the body pound trophies. Can they work, sure they can, just what do you want?


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## jbh38

What Dagger dog did he out pull for MWP? I know the percentage, they never get percentage, but MWP?


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## jbh38

and Draw the Line Kennels is Whopper, not Dagger blood.


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## cane76

dagger/whopper whats the diffrence really,large mastiff crosses bred for wp,mountain gator kennels has it in colarado[dagger,camalot],there selling it under the lable,"american pull dog"..
http://www.mountaingatorkennels.net/


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## bahamutt99

jbh38 said:


> and Draw the Line Kennels is Whopper, not Dagger blood.


From their homepage: We specialize in the XXXL line of Eddington dogs for weight pulling, however we still have some pure Freeman blood, Dagger, Ishikawa and Bismarck still available.


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## FOSTER

awesomoe of mountain gator kennels is the grandfather to the litter we're picking a pup from. he was bred to a mealers blue female named mercedes. i myself prefer the 65-75lb in shape size dogs. i have seen a gew of mountian gator kennel produced dogs in person and pulled with them, its what got me into wp. mgk's shes a brick house was a lil machine. i havent seen any of these 120 lb dogs yall always bring up at the mention of the large lines, those seem to be more of the exception, granted they are larger than average but not the monsters theyre made out to be.


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## FOSTER

is james bates the same as drawthelinekennels?


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## FOSTER

i checked out draw the line kennels (mr bates). i have alot or respect for what their dogs have accomplished. ive actually seen a few of them pulling, nature boy is one of those beasts 120lbers, he's a whole helluva lota dog. i find it a lil crazy how with just the small shows we've had here in arkansas w the quality of those that have attended. it makes me even more proud of my bybred boy. its about the heart in the dog, not the papers on the wall. although i do gotta get the next dog from somewhere, and it wont a byb but one of the big kennels


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## jbh38

cane76 said:


> dagger/whopper whats the diffrence really,large mastiff crosses bred for wp,mountain gator kennels has it in colarado[dagger,camalot],there selling it under the lable,"american pull dog"..
> http://www.mountaingatorkennels.net/


don't ever let anyone that owns dagger or owns whopper here you say they are the same, that would be war. You don't call one the other, not at all.

Mark Landers has some of the old Dagger blood and he bred it to Camelot's the Duke years ago and that is what he is selling now is the offsprings of.

Whopper is known to be a cross, Dagger is not.


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## jbh38

bahamutt99 said:


> From their homepage: We specialize in the XXXL line of Eddington dogs for weight pulling, however we still have some pure Freeman blood, Dagger, Ishikawa and Bismarck still available.


XXXL Eddington = Whopper

I know James too, we have pulled against him


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## jbh38

Here you go, here is a Dagger pulling, not a big one, but she is our girl

Matrix


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## Patch-O-Pits

Figgy1682 said:


> WOW, i wish saffy had the drive to be a personal protection dog. i mean she chase birds all over and wont get tired but other then that she does laps around the house and comes in and lays down. can you work a dog to get this kind of drive or is it just a birth thing.


 A dog either has it or they don't so to speak. Yes, you can build drive to an extent, but it is not the same as a dog having it naturally. JMO on it.

Bite work is definitely not for every dog.

Don't forget Banddogs are not the same as APBTs.

There are purebred APBTs who do SchH and or french ring
such as the below to name a couple:
WPBTCA National Champion (2006), AG1, UWP, Gr.Ch., Int'l. Ch. U-CDX Hanson's CAPONE, FR level 2, MR level 1, Bh, FO, P1, CGC, TDI, OFA - Total Dog 3X, SUPER DOG - DNA-P, OFA

"GRCH" Howard's Magnus - SchB, ScH3, UKC Superdog (UCD, UWP, UAG1, GRCH), APA WPT3, Obed. 2, PD1 Obed, SCT, Pennhip, OFA, FAST G rating, DNA PROFILED


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## cane76

jbh38 said:


> don't ever let anyone that owns dagger or owns whopper here you say they are the same, that would be war. You don't call one the other, not at all.
> 
> Mark Landers has some of the old Dagger blood and he bred it to Camelot's the Duke years ago and that is what he is selling now is the offsprings of.
> 
> Whopper is known to be a cross, Dagger is not.


I dont care what people with dagger "believe" there dogs to be,people who own "re" and gotti,believe there dogs are pure.Ya pure bred 140pd apbts,that happens all the time,lol.at least people with whopper blood are honest,and good for the dude from "mgk" calling his dogs american pull dogs insted of apbts.I like a dagger bred dog,id own one,its a bandog weather any one wants to believe it or not,the proof is in the size and type....


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## jbh38

oops, Matrix's picture did not show up.

She is 55 lbs


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## jbh38

Matrix is 55 lbs and she is tight dagger, we have a male, engine that is in the 50's and tight dagger, some are huge, all are not, and I believe my dogs are APBT.


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## cane76

jbh38 said:


> Matrix is 55 lbs and she is tight dagger, we have a male, engine that is in the 50's and tight dagger, some are huge, all are not, and I believe my dogs are APBT.


It definetly looks like one,nice dog!


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## bahamutt99

jbh38 said:


> XXXL Eddington = Whopper
> 
> I know James too, we have pulled against him


Okay. I know this. BUT... You said they don't have Dagger, and I'm saying that as per their website, they do. I know James, too, in an off-handed way. (I was there when he was throwing a tantrum at a pull, I guess because he didn't make it in time for entries? All I know is that he was bitching at the judge, Mike Hanson.)


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## jbh38

I didn't say he didn't have any dagger, but James is known more for his Whopper dogs, I think Nature boy is Dagger. He isn't known as a dagger breeder and yep, I've seen him throw a few fits too...lol but he really is a nice guy, just gets upset every now and then


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## shawn1234

no offense to the dagger folks but have heard they are known to turn out higher percent of maneaters. dagger is suppozed to be apbt x presa cross.


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## cane76

I dont no about maneaters,I think that is a common theme people like to speculate on when it commes to larger strains of hybrid apbt/staff bred dogs.As for presa crosses,they sure look like that to me,presa is the closest mastiff breed to the apbt in looks so it seems like a natural choise for a out cross and then line breed them back into each other,set a type and sell them as pure bred,not really rocket science,but theres also no proof and if anyone knows nobodys talkin,it will come out eventually no doubt...


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## FOSTER

that matrix girl is working! just how much is that?


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## jbh38

Somewhere around 11,000 lbs. She took MWPP over 55 lbs both days that weekend.


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## cane76

thats amazing:thumbsup: ..


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## OldFortKennels

Thats cool, we were at that show JBH and Bahama, I was at the one where he pitched a fit also. He tends to do that, just ask about FL, he got thrown out!

Matrix is one heck of a dog, I remeber that dog because I was pulling against it for the MWP, Awsome dog!


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## bahamutt99

OldFortKennels said:


> Thats cool, we were at that show JBH and Bahama, I was at the one where he pitched a fit also. He tends to do that, just ask about FL, he got thrown out!


LOL. Not sure I want to know about FL. But if you want to tell the story, I like a bit of good gossip now and again. :angel:

I get a bit disappointed with the attitudes of pullers sometimes. Most of them are perfectly nice people, happy to help others and just glad to be out doing something with their dogs. But there's that which I mentioned above, and then at a show in Gainesville TX, someone I didn't recognize cussed the judge, Fabian. I wish folks would treat weight pull with the respect it deserves. I made a post about attitudes on the APA board, and was rather surprised that nobody replied with a "shut up and work your dogs," or "you're just mad because you lose," or anything like that.

Do you pull in Texas often? We're trying to work out a way to get to the UKC pull in Denton in September. Just ordered the harnesses, now trying to figure out if we can get our money squared away for the entries and the trip.


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## FOSTER

is there a link to more info on the denton texas show? everything i found was for last year. thanx. dentons near dallas right?


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## bahamutt99

Yeah, Denton is south of Dallas. The North Texas APBT Club is hosting. There was going to be an obedience trial, but they cancelled that. Now its just the show and pull. Hoping to "get my money right" and do both. Got some youngins who need to be exposed to the track. 

Here's a link: http://www.ukcdogs.com/Upcoming.nsf/ByMonth/5E76D0B2E14579778525744800533274?OpenDocument


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## FOSTER

they really could have put that in a more user friendly way. is it only open to ukc dogs? if not i'll more than likely be there.


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## bahamutt99

Yes, UKC events are for UKC-registered dogs.


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## MetalGirl30

cane76 said:


> yes,eddie edington is was from oaklahoma...check this whopper dog out,mighty thor,god this dog is scary,lol....
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> *As for a arkansaw giant bulldog,if it has english bulldog in it,i wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole,might as well get a american bully if ya wanna go that rout...*


GOOD GOD...LORD HE IS HUGE!! I would not even waste my energy trying to run from something like him......STOP, DROP,,PRAY!!!! LOL


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## FOSTER

man that sucks, ukc dogs only hunh. maybe next time


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## GorillaBiscuits

I read this thread and can give an opinion from watching ADBA pull events over the years and seeing Omar from Dagger Kennels dedication and passion for weight pull and the breed

he spends all day, each day running the shows and BBQ for everyone, he loves what he does

as far as his dogs and how theyre bred, ask him, he's doesnt have a problem talking dogs

and his dogs speak for themselves, they compete and win

and the comment about their being better bulldogs? He isnt a bulldogger, so his dogs arent bulldogs


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