# Parrot and Oscar



## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

When you read about and see videos of police shooting pitbulls like Parrot for no good reason and it makes your heart ache with the injustice of it all, do you ever think about Oscar Grant and the young black men like him that met similar fates?

I do.

I have three black sons. A couple of years ago I was talking to one of my girlfriends who is white (like me) and has a white son. We were talking about how phone calls in the middle of the night, as a mother, wake you up with fear. The difference between her fear and my fear though was her first thought is "car accident". My first thought is "been shot".

We were having this conversation because my phone rang well after midnight on New Years Eve and it was my oldest sons cell phone. He didn't speak when I answered but I could hear commotion in the background. I was terrified and yelling his name then I heard my middle sons wife laughing in the background. Turned out that my two oldest sons and their wives were playing WII and his phone dialed me by accident. What a relief!

My friend wondered if my initial fear - "shot" or more specifically "shot by the police" wasn't a little weird or far-fetched. Turns out that three young black men in different cities across the country were shot by police that very same New Years Eve. Two were killed and one survived. None of them were doing anything illegal or resisting arrest.

Two years ago I didn't have a pit bull. As most of you who have "met" me here know, I didn't set out to adopt a pit bull and didn't know much at all about the breed. I just fell in love with a dog on death row at a shelter.

Now when I read stories like those of Parrot, the dog shot in DC or see videos like the one posted here where the police shot the dog leashed to the back of the truck it makes my heart ache with the same kind of apprehension I've always had for my boys. Like my boys she's always going to have to be better than expected. She's not going to get the same sort of slack a white boy/golden retriever would enjoy. And she's going to have to not be unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It makes me sad, and I just wanted to share the thought with some of you who might understand the correlation. Sorry it's so long. Brevity is not my strong suit.

Also - I want to be clear that I'm not a "cop hater". I work with law enforcement daily and know a lot of good officers. I think the vast majority are good people. Brave people. But, there are hundreds of thousands of them and some are rotten. Some are incompetent and have terrible judgement. But, they still get a gun and a badge - just like their better counterparts and the pain they can cause is immeasurable.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Very nice post.


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

american_pit13 said:


> Very nice post.


Thank you for thinking and saying so. I knew when I was typing it that it might sound a little "off the wall" - but it's an undeniably similar feeling of concern. There's probably not much that a young man with a family to support and a pit mix from a rescue have in common other than having a white policemans knee in their back (unnecessarily) moments before their public execution.

Both my sons and my dog are perceived as threatening/dangerous by certain ignorant segments of the population. And a tiny segment of that population can act as judge, jury and executioner with practical impunity.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Thank you for telling us your story. It's this type of sharing that makes us a family here IMO. We all love a breed that is hated by many, and with the association, some of us are despised as well. However, we are for the most part d*mn good people, with the same joys and fears as everyone. I, for one, hope that all members and their families (obviously including their pit bulls) are always safe and sound. Solidarity is what makes us strong KILLED SOMETIMES, DEFEATED NEVER


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

That's a very touching post, and I really enjoyed it. It's sad the way people will treat other races, especially because they don't deserve it, just like the way our dogs don't deserve to be treated the way they are.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Gimbler, I can relate to you on this topic, in a sense. I have 3 daughters, and a step-son, all who are of mixed ethinicity (I'm mixed myself, but appear white whereas all my children appear hispanic or native american, but are very much black/white with some hispanic and native american mixed in). I agree with you on the point you make about your dog, compared to your children. I feel this very same way, though I've not got as much to worry about since I have girls, and no dog at the moment. My girls aren't even old enough to think about dating (ages 7 yrs, 5 yrs, and 1 yr old) and my step-son, well, he's not old enough either (10 yrs old). But, yes I do worry about my kids in the same sense. I worry they'll be picked on or selected b/c of their nationality/ethnicity and "selected" to be a victim. But, that doesn't change my love for them. I know there are other people here who are on the same page as you and I, but I'll let them show themselves. I won't call anybody out, as it's not my place.


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> Thank you for telling us your story. It's this type of sharing that makes us a family here IMO. We all love a breed that is hated by many, and with the association, some of us are despised as well. However, we are for the most part d*mn good people, with the same joys and fears as everyone. I, for one, hope that all members and their families (obviously including their pit bulls) are always safe and sound. Solidarity is what makes us strong KILLED SOMETIMES, DEFEATED NEVER


It is the sharing that makes this forum special isn't it? I've enjoyed learning all that I have here about my dog and have received some great advice when I needed it most. But, I've also enjoyed the sharing and candor that so many of the people here reveal about their hearts. You yourself shared so much of your pain and fears in a thread about grieving for your dogs. I think it helps to know that you can express when your heart is heavy and find that you're feelings are understood.


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> Thank you for telling us your story. It's this type of sharing that makes us a family here IMO. We all love a breed that is hated by many, and with the association, some of us are despised as well. However, we are for the most part d*mn good people, with the same joys and fears as everyone. I, for one, hope that all members and their families (obviously including their pit bulls) are always safe and sound. Solidarity is what makes us strong KILLED SOMETIMES, DEFEATED NEVER





meganc66 said:


> That's a very touching post, and I really enjoyed it. It's sad the way people will treat other races, especially because they don't deserve it, just like the way our dogs don't deserve to be treated the way they are.


Thank you, Megan - that's it exactly. It's sad that so many "pre-judge" based on race, or breed, or anything else when the consequences can be so deadly for some.


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

ThaLadyPit said:


> Gimbler, I can relate to you on this topic, in a sense. I have 3 daughters, and a step-son, all who are of mixed ethinicity (I'm mixed myself, but appear white whereas all my children appear hispanic or native american, but are very much black/white with some hispanic and native american mixed in). I agree with you on the point you make about your dog, compared to your children. I feel this very same way, though I've not got as much to worry about since I have girls, and no dog at the moment. My girls aren't even old enough to think about dating (ages 7 yrs, 5 yrs, and 1 yr old) and my step-son, well, he's not old enough either (10 yrs old). But, yes I do worry about my kids in the same sense. I worry they'll be picked on or selected b/c of their nationality/ethnicity and "selected" to be a victim. But, that doesn't change my love for them. I know there are other people here who are on the same page as you and I, but I'll let them show themselves. I won't call anybody out, as it's not my place.


It is different with girls, isn't it? I raised three sons and now have three granddaughters. They're close in ages to your daughters and though I have all the fears and hopes any parent or grandparent would it's not the same worries (being shot!) that I had for the boys. Instead I worry about self-image kinda stuff - and that's a relief! lol Like when my 8 year old granddaughter was about 3 and wanted "princess hair" like me. Trust me - there's nothing "princess-ish" about my straggly mop. But I realized that she meant long,straight hair like the Disney princesses. Now we've got Princess Tiana representing! :clap:


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Gimbler said:


> It is the sharing that makes this forum special isn't it? I've enjoyed learning all that I have here about my dog and have received some great advice when I needed it most. But, I've also enjoyed the sharing and candor that so many of the people here reveal about their hearts. You yourself shared so much of your pain and fears in a thread about grieving for your dogs. I think it helps to know that you can express when your heart is heavy and find that you're feelings are understood.


I couldn't agree with you more. I believe that sometimes it's ok when misery loves company And to think a person living in Pittsburgh can feel my pain and anguish when I'm at my lowest point in life makes it even more special to me. Thank you for remembering me and the stories of my two deeply missed pups. Empathy is a wonderful thing.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes, it is much different; and one in the same, also. All my girls have the long, frizzy hair like me, and curly like mine, but theirs is black or dark brown, whereas my hair is blonde, lol. We all share the same flat section of hair in the back on the nape of our necks, and the rest of our hair is curly.. interesting to see how genetics plays a roll, lol.

And, I do agree, that the members here on this forum can be very hard-up about certain topics, but I think it's truly amazing how we can pull together and become one when we're having troubles, grieving, or just need to vent about something out of the norm.

Christian, I too remember your thread about your lost pups.. in fact, that was one of your first posts, wasn't it? I remember you specifically for that thread. We all pulled together and shared one common factor, other than our love for this breed, and that was our compassion to console others and help them make it thru the tough times!!

I do hope that we as a community can continue to embrace the love and friendship that comes along with being a member of this forum. We've all got very interesting lives and very touching stories to share, and I do believe that we can learn a lot from each other just by sharing our fears, concerns, opinions on different topics. Granted, we don't always agree or see eye to eye, we can still show respect, and heartfelt compassion for one another, and that's the main thing that brings me back to this forum every day, even though I don't have a dog at the moment!

ETA: Gimbler, here's some recent pix for you...








Myself with all my kids, lookin a mess (please excuse me) from our trip to Ga in March.








The kids together from our most recent trip to Ga, back in May for my two younger brothers' graduation.

And, just for kicks... 







My sister and I (I had just got to Ga when we took this pic). We have the same father, but different mothers. Her mother is black, and my mother is white.








My mother, my baby brother, myself, and Trinity (my youngest daughter) at my mom's house. Mama's 53 years old, had a stroke in Jan '05 and lost her left eye. She has dentures, but doesn't wear them as they need to be resized (they're too big now that her gums shrunk down). So, please excuse her rough appearance. And, yes, those are christmas decorations in the background.. she got lazy and never took em down, lol.


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

Great looking family you have there! Your girls all favor you.

Here's a pic of my gang. We live in three different states so I don't have many pics of all of us together at the same time.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gimbler/5026064875/
This one is a couple years old, taken in Jersey at my middle sons place. My baby son (front center and low) has since added a girlfriend and their own little baby girl to the mix. The two little girls in the pic are my middle sons (in the back), his wife is in front of him. And I'm next to my oldest son with his wife on the opposite side in a white tank. She's mixed too, and they kind of look alike. They've been mistaken for brother and sister! LOL


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Great post, Gimbler. I think I better call my mum and apologize for making her worry when I was younger. I gave her plenty of reasons to.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Wow!!! Everyone looks gorgeous in the family photos, putting some of us to shame


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

You've got to be kidding me. Pit bull race card? Wrong place for a discussion like this. Ain't it?


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

buzhunter said:


> You've got to be kidding me. Pit bull race card? Wrong place for a discussion like this. Ain't it?


Agreed.... *shakes head*... I get the analogy but a can of worms... We all get our fair share of mistreatment at one point or another, today & through out history despite religion & ethnicity...


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

buzhunter said:


> You've got to be kidding me. Pit bull race card? Wrong place for a discussion like this. Ain't it?


Pitbull race card? Only if that's what you're making of it. My post wasn't about playing a race card - it was about the correlation of a FEELING of apprehension in the way two completely different entities that I care dearly about are perceived by some authorities.

How is this the wrong place and where would you suggest is the right place to talk about how it makes me feel when a dog like mine (and presumably yours) is killed by law enforcement because of it's breed?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Yeah I might be with Buz on this one.......

Dogs get shot by cops everyday and rarely does it make the news. It is sad when a dog loses their life because of the different situations and many police do not have a good grasp of dog behavior and yes it can be fueled by the media's perception of our breed. The bottom line is if a dog gets in the way of them doing their job no matter the breed they have every right to shoot the dog to protect them self. They cannot always know the intentions of a dog running at them in play or aggression. They have a hard enough job with all the other crap they have to put up with, and sadly dogs pay the price.

Now when it comes to police shooting anyone no matter what color I think the actions of the person who is shot is the determining factor. Black, Mexican, white, or what ever color don't act like a fool when it comes to cops. Listen to instructions and do what they say, when ppl get shot it is because they are not following orders.

First off I am very much Mexican in looks even though I am only half, never have I had any problems with the law that I did not cause myself and never has race been a factor. Now as an adult I act like a normal law abiding citizen and guess what..... we never get bothered! Now (this is not referring to the op kids at ALL just in general) if you act like a thug, look like a thug, then you are going to bring attention to yourself no matter what color you are. Even if your intentions are good it bring unnecessary attentions and that is a life style choice, don't even try and bring in a cultural thing into it! I have never seen a culture where pants hanging off your butt is cultural! Yes in a perfect world it should not matter but nothing is ever perfect. People are still judged on how you act and dress and that is not going to change anytime soon in this country. We as minorities like to always play the race card but really it is a cop out. I HATE when I hear the race card being thrown around because you are trying to blame others for your actions instead of taking personal responsibility for your own actions. Many minorities think it is the governments job to take care of them, give them health care, give them special considerations just for being a minority.... what ever happened to making your own future and working hard? Why do you have to depend on anyone but yourself? Oh man don't get me started on the whole race card deal! lol
Really it comes down to doing the right thing and I will tell you what happened to my white brother (half brother).

My brother is 6'5" white, shaved head (for football) and 17 years old. He was driving home after school and got pulled over by a cop and the cop did a felony stop. That means guns drawn and yelling and screaming. Taylor pulled over and the cops rushed the truck and was trying to pull him out of the truck but he had his seatbelt on. He was trying to to tell them but they were just yelling for him to get out. He got hit in the head for pushing a cop back to unbuckle his belt then they dragged him out and threw him on the ground and handcuffed him. He had no clue what was going on he was not speeding and was following orders. Come to find out a store was just robbed by gun point and the truck he was driving matched the description and he was in the area. My poor brother was shocked by what happened but not at all mad at the cops. Had he been the guy with a gun the cops could not take any chances but since he wasn't he was released and the hunt went on. I have no doubt had my brother been Mexican or black the race card when have been used but really it was just the cops doing their job. Race has very little to do with it and while not all cops are innocent of racism I know it happens, many times we are the ones to call the race card when it has nothing to do with it.


For all those that like to play the race card or say it is racial have you ever stopped to think why so many minorities have problems? It is because they have a higher crime rate among minorities and they make up most of the prison populations. It is the personal choices of the individuals not the fact they are Black, Mexican, Spanish, Asian or any other color. You have no one but yourself to blame if you commit a crime, most are just mad they got caught!

Most of this is not directed at the OP or his kids or really anyone on this forum I am only speaking in general as a minority myself. And yes any phone call in the middle of the night is a parents worse nightmare no matter the race of the kids.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Why the negativity toward Gimbler? It's a nice post that showed alot of heart.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Saint Francis said:


> Why the negativity toward Gimbler? It's a nice post that showed a lot of heart.


I do not think there was any negativity towards Gimbler it is a touchy subject that is getting the heat not necessarily towards Gimbler. This can be a good discussion of ppl can put personal feelings a side and just talk about the facts and not get personal.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

I understand your comments Lisa, and don't like the overuse of the race card, but to suggest that law enforcement doesn't profile certain individuals due to their race is something we will have to agree to disagree on. EVERYONE is racist to some degree, and having a badge/gun and training does not exclude law enforcement from the general population and our stereotypical attitudes towards others.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I never said it does not happen (in my post I make that clear) but many people take it out of proportion and it is not racism they are just being plane dumb, get caught, then blame race. Racism happens still but not as often as many would like to think..... In this day in age they make everything about race and honestly minorities are some of the biggest racists I know! Blame everything on the "white men" but take no personal responsibility for their own actions.... Have you ever sat and heard some the hate speech that comes from the black and Mexican community? OMG it is CRAZY!! Do some research on it and you will be amazed what is really being said but not shown on TV.

organizations like the Larasa, black panthers, ACLU (OMG don't get me started on them!) even church groups of minorities are just off the wall crazy and put paranoia and racist ideas in young minds. Really it is disgusting and one reason my kids will go to private school!

I know there are other crazy groups but these groups were most recent in memory for crazy outbursts.


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

> Now when it comes to police shooting anyone no matter what color I think the actions of the person who is shot is the determining factor. Black, Mexican, white, or what ever color don't act like a fool when it comes to cops. Listen to instructions and do what they say, when ppl get shot it is because they are not following orders.


I have a lot of respect for you, but I have to say that what you've stated here isn't factual. If your brother had been shot to death instead of roughly handled because he couldn't get his seatbelt off in order to comply quickly enough that wouldn't be justice.

In my OP I specifically refer to Oscar Grant. Because when I see the pic of the officer with his knee in the back of a dog pinned to the sidewalk it reminds me of the image of Oscar Grant in that same position before an officer "mistakenly" pulls his weapon and shoots him to death.

BART Police shooting of Oscar Grant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not even going to get into debating any of your other remarks regarding race, crime statistics, or "entitlement" because I agree with Buz that this isn't the place for that kind of discussion. Again - I was sharing my FEELINGS over a dog being shot for apparently no good reason and the similarity of my apprehension as a mother of young black men and an owner of a dog very much like the one who was shot.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Whole [email protected] thread ought to be deleted before anyone else reads it. JMO


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

buzhunter said:


> Whole [email protected] thread ought to be deleted before anyone else reads it. JMO


Wow, really? I'm wondering why you find the subject so irksome that you think it should be censored? It's not like participation in it is mandatory.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Private school, been there and done that. Plenty of racism I assure you, plenty.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I just got a new truck a month ago and I have been pulled over in it 4 times. Never given a ticket just cops "doing there job" The second time I had Dooney with me in the truck. the officer wanted to check the truck and I stopped him by telling him my dog was in the truck. He called for second high way patrolman to come. I had to get Dooney out of the truck and stand with my hands on the hood as the second cop held my dog on a interstate. while they search my Truck. If you believe that there is no profiling and over reacting to race you really must not know what it is like to be a minority. I was let go and the officer said I was going under the speed limit and t=he thought it to be suspicious. 
Any who I was most afraid that day for my dog. Because many apbt have been shot in my area by the police. Thats all I know about profiling. Because these are things I go through all the time. How do you guys who believe it is the persons fault not the Cops, deal with these thing when they happen to you.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Saint Francis said:


> Private school, been there and done that. Plenty of racism I assure you, plenty.


Private school because I have more control over what I want my kids to hear from teachers not because of racism. I can handle that in my own home but private schools give you more control over what types of teachers your children are exposed to and because you are paying for them you also have more say when things go wrong. Public schools out here are just bad, private at least you can be a little more in control. Speaking of racism I was the only brown baby in my school full of white kids, lol never saw any difference in how I was treated.

Now in fairness I think what part of the country you grow up in has a big impact. I lived in Tenn for a while when I was 16 and MAN was I out of place!!! It was White or Black and no in between, I never felt more uncomfortable in a city in my life and would never go back.

and Rudy, you know my friend had the same problem with the cops when he bought a new car. His car is red with tinted windows you really can't see what he looks like but he always gets pulled over. Curious as to what your truck looks like? I know when I was younger and I rode around with the guys that had souped up cars we always got pulled over but it was the cars not our race.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Well it is what I consider a family truck. Red dodge 4 door 4x4 no tinted windows. but not really sporty in look (note how you can see strait through the front windows). We got because we are have a baby and could not take a car seat in a single cab. Just saying it does happen. And I understand because I was more worried about Dooney than any thing els. But when I got home my wife how is White. Was so upset saying why are all these cops pulling you over now. Then she looked at me and said Your being profiled! I just laughed. Its what ever you get used to it. No big deal.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Lisa, I think you give private schools too much credit, but I see your point. I spent 12 years in private school and the teachers may teach academics, but the kids "teach" eachother life, and it can be from a privileged point of view. The kids are with eachother for more hours per day than the parent or teacher, so alot rubs off. Like I said, everyone's racist to some degree, there's no escaping it. You definitely have all the right intentions and I'm sure that your kids will turn out great Now, how in the h*ll did this conversation go in this direction? LOL!!!! Lisa, I don't mean to step on your shoes, OK?


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Gimbler said:


> Wow, really? I'm wondering why you find the subject so irksome that you think it should be censored? It's not like participation in it is mandatory.


Why? Because a racially charged soapbox rant has no place in such a racially diverse forum. It's divisive and counterproductive.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

buzhunter said:


> Why? Because a racially charged soapbox rant has no place in such a racially diverse forum. It's divisive and counterproductive.


Not only that but to start with, it's a bad analogy being as ppl are capable of defending themselves. An animal is not... Not that it's meaning to, but this subjective material is easily taken as offensive to others (like myself) & *a double standard*


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

Well, phrases like "race card", "racially charged" and "soapbox" are all buzz words (no pun intended) that have nothing to do with my original post. I wasn't on a soap box and I certainly wasn't preaching. What I tried to make clear was that I was expressing a similarity in the FEELING of apprehension I have over the mistaken perception by some people (particularly in law enforcement) of two different entities that I care dearly about.

The only type of offense I was concerned that would be taken is that someone might read my post as if I were equating the loss of a dog with the loss of a person. Which I wasn't.

Other than that I really can't understand anyone other than a law enforcement officer who recognizes him or herself as not being up to snuff (and I've never seen a bad one question their own ability!) taking offense to what I said.

And I even said in my post that I'm not a cop hater and work with police on a daily basis. What I didn't go on about is that I've been in Loss Prevention for 22 years. I probably made more running tackles in my first five years as LP than most cops outside of vice make in their entire careers. I've worked with and trained dozens of cops before they even became cops, as LP is often a stepping stone on that career path. And while the great and vast majority of officers are terrific people their are some who should have never been given authority over anything, let alone a badge and a gun. Some aren't any good at interpreting situations and anything other than totally submissive bootlicking from the public they're supposed to be "serving" makes them "feel threatened". Some have some inner narrative going on where they're a hero looking for an opportunity.Failing that, they'll create an "opportunity". Not a bleep hairs difference from a firefighter arsonist. I've seen adrenilin rushes get the better of their judgement, I've seen situations that are under control escalated cause they weren't finished getting their rush.

And I am sickened by the thought that one of these yahoos could potentially mis-perceive my sons as "black thugs" or my pit bull as "vicious dog" and "feel threatened" by normal non-threatening behavior (behavior that's more often recognized as non-threatening when it's being acted out by a white teenager or a "labradoodle"!) and pull the trigger.

It happens. It's a fact that it happens. I'm not condemning all officers or righteous shoots - just the senseless avoidable tragedies that could happen to anyone. But happen with more frequency to minorities and whatever breed of dog happens to be the current bogey man.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Saint Francis said:


> Lisa, I think you give private schools too much credit, but I see your point. I spent 12 years in private school and the teachers may teach academics, but the kids "teach" eachother life, and it can be from a privileged point of view. The kids are with eachother for more hours per day than the parent or teacher, so alot rubs off. Like I said, everyone's racist to some degree, there's no escaping it. You definitely have all the right intentions and I'm sure that your kids will turn out great Now, how in the h*ll did this conversation go in this direction? LOL!!!! Lisa, I don't mean to step on your shoes, OK?


I know you get get away from kids influencing kids but I can have a say in what is taught at the teachers level. You would not believe (now I am going to get politically sorry) all the left winged crap that is taught in public schools even at the elementary level. Your child sits in that persons class room all day and their personal views can get in the way of teaching and we see that a lot here. My kids should go to school to learn not pick up on a teachers personal agenda. That was more my point with private schools. 



Gimbler said:


> Well, phrases like "race card", "racially charged" and "soapbox" are all buzz words (no pun intended) that have nothing to do with my original post. I wasn't on a soap box and I certainly wasn't preaching. What I tried to make clear was that I was expressing a similarity in the FEELING of apprehension I have over the mistaken perception by some people (particularly in law enforcement) of two different entities that I care dearly about.
> 
> The only type of offense I was concerned that would be taken is that someone might read my post as if I were equating the loss of a dog with the loss of a person. Which I wasn't.
> 
> ...


I thought you had a good post and was not offended by it all and I know you were not talking bad about law enforcement, I think I high jacked your thread  sorry.


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

> I thought you had a good post and was not offended by it all and I know you were not talking bad about law enforcement, I think I high jacked your thread sorry.


Gosh, no worries and no apologies necessary. I think TheLadyPit and I had already hijacked it into family photo thread anyhow!  Good to know that you didn't take offense.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Gotcha Lisa, it's funny because due to our geographical locations, we both can look at private schools differently. I am from a very predominent republican state, throw in the fact that I went to Catholic private schools and you have the perfect recipe for overly fed right wingmanship But hey I turned out great (wink wink). As always Lisa, it was a pleasure


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I know how you feel Gimbler I have a pitbull and I get looks all the time when we are out in public but she is a great dog and I can usually change peoples thinking when they meet her and I have a NA son. My son has been discriminated againest since he was old enough to walk. I ahet that I have voiced my thought on that too many people.

Lisa up here in the north country it doesn't matter who commits a crime the Native American will go to jail and the NA will have a write up in the paper and the NA will be looked down on. the white boys and girls will contintue to do crime but will never ever see the inside of a court room. That is a fact.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

How's this for irony?

The Justice Department is ignoring civil rights cases that involve white victims and wrongly abandoned a voter intimidation case against the New Black Panther Party last year, a top department official testified Friday. He called the department's conduct a "travesty of justice."

Christopher Coates, former voting chief for the department's Civil Rights Division, spoke under oath Friday morning before the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, in a long-awaited appearance that had been stonewalled by the Justice Department for nearly a year.

Coates discussed in depth the DOJ's decision to dismiss intimidation charges against New Black Panther members who were videotaped outside a Philadelphia polling place in 2008 dressed in military-style uniforms -- one was brandishing a nightstick -- and allegedly hurling racial slurs.

The case has drifted in and out of the limelight over the past year as the commission has struggled to investigate it. Former Justice official J. Christian Adams fueled the controversy when he testified in July and accused his former employer of showing "hostility" toward cases that involved white victims and black defendants.

Nearly three months later, Coates backed up Adams' claims. In lengthy and detailed testimony, he said the department cultivates a "hostile atmosphere" against "race-neutral enforcement" of the Voting Rights Act.

He said civil rights attorneys stick to cases that involve minority victims, and he said the Black Panther case was dismissed following "pressure" by the NAACP and "anger" at the case within the Justice Department itself.

"That anger was the result of their deep-seated opposition to the equal enforcement of the Voting Rights Act against racial minorities and for the protection of white voters who have been discriminated against," he said.

He said a 2005 case against a black official in Mississippi over voter intimidation claims had stirred a backlash in the department and from civil rights groups -- and that the New Black Panther case was no different.

The Department of Justice dismissed the testimony, calling the investigation "thin on facts and evidence and thick on rhetoric."

"The department makes enforcement decisions based on the merits, not the race, gender or ethnicity of any party involved," department spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler said. "We are committed to comprehensive and vigorous enforcement of the federal laws that prohibit voter intimidation."

The Bush Justice Department first brought the case against three members of the Black Panther group, accusing them in a civil complaint of violating the Voting Rights Act. The Obama administration initially pursued the case and at one point won a default judgment, but the administration last year moved to dismiss the charges after getting one of the New Black Panther members to agree not to carry a "deadly weapon" near a polling place until 2012.

Coates rejected as weak the department's rationale for abandoning the case, saying the department let one of the Black Panther members off the hook because a local police officer had determined he was a Democratic Party poll watcher. Coates called it "extraordinarily strange" for the department to rely on this and urged the commission to consider what the legal backlash would have been if the Panthers had been members of the Ku Klux Klan.

"To understand the rationale of these articulated reasons for gutting this case ... one only has to state the facts in the racial reverse," he said. Coates said that with the United States becoming increasingly diverse, it is "absolutely essential" that the law be enforced equally.

"As important as the mandate in the Voting Rights Act is to protect minority voters, white voters also have an interest in being able to go to the polls without having race-haters such as Black Panther King Samir Shabazz, whose public rhetoric includes such statements as 'kill cracker babies' ... standing at the entrance of the polling place with a billy club in his hand hurling racial slurs at voters," he said.

"Given this outrageous conduct, it was a travesty of justice for the Department of Justice not to allow attorneys in the voting section to obtain nationwide injunctive relief against" the defendants, he said.

Since last year, Coates has been transferred to the U.S. attorney's office in South Carolina. He said Friday that the Justice Department told him not to testify before the commission after he was first subpoenaed in December 2009; in testifying Friday, he claimed protection from retaliation under "whistleblower" laws.

Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Va., also wrote a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder warning the Justice Department not to punish Coates in any way for testifying.

FOXNews.com - Voting Rights Official Calls Dismissal of Black Panther Case a 'Travesty of Justice''


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Gimbler said:


> Well, phrases like "race card", "racially charged" and "soapbox" are all buzz words (no pun intended) that have nothing to do with my original post. I wasn't on a soap box and I certainly wasn't preaching. What I tried to make clear was that I was expressing a similarity in the FEELING of apprehension I have over the mistaken perception by some people (particularly in law enforcement) of two different entities that I care dearly about.
> 
> The only type of offense I was concerned that would be taken is that someone might read my post as if I were equating the loss of a dog with the loss of a person. Which I wasn't.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying... But you come off as biased & unfair to pitbull owners/breeders as a whole. When you own pitbulls, it doesn't matter your race/gender/religion, ppl look down on you for owning that breed because of what the media hype tells them to think. If you look like Heck's Angles or happen to be a young person, best believed you're getting harrassed by the popo's, it happens to ALL races, religions & genders not just young black men.

In the work place people who happen to be black got more special treatment then those who happen to be white... I was racially discriminated by a black woman in a job that I worked below her & she got away with it, because according to her I'm a young silly white girl & she treated me terribly until one day I flipped out on her. I also tend to be treated as an idiot, because I happen to be presumed as pretty as well. If I talk about a subject within deep thought, I get cut off. When I was in middles school shopping with friends through the mall, 14 year old white girls mind you. A cop came up started talking to us, my friend whispered something to our friend & the cop threatened to PUNCH her in the mouth.

If you want to say generalized stereotyping & prejudice is wrong fine. But don't label it as 'blacks' are the only ones who get mistreated & are the only ones who have anything in common with this breed. Because that is generalized stereotyping in itself.

I don't think you're totally off & mean well but everyone gets stereotyped unfortunately.

You can't tell me this wasn't a racist hate crime:
*
VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED*










Just a smidge of the racial gang violence... I had a gun pointed at me when I was 12 walking my dog around the block by 3 boys who happened to be of different ethnicity... I'm lucky


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

Now THAT is a threadjack!

The two of you have taken the liberty of creating the "racially charged soapboxes" that existed only in your heads and were supposedly so offended by. Congratulations. Nice work. Good to know you.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Gimbler said:


> Now THAT is a threadjack!
> 
> The two of you have taken the liberty of creating the "racially charged soapboxes" that existed only in your heads and were supposedly so offended by. Congratulations. Nice work. Good to know you.


You really missed the point... No reason to be so abrasive


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

> You really missed the point... No reason to be so abrasive


I could say backatcha...

My post was never intended to be a an introduction to a blanket discussion of racism in America, race relations throughout history, discrimination in the workplace, being mistaken for an idiot, threatening mall cops, Fox News, the Bush administration, etc, etc, etc.

I said in my first post "I just wanted to share the thought with some of you who might understand the correlation." If you weren't among that population I don't understand why you wouldn't shrug your shoulders and move on to another discussion that did interest you.

For the LAST time - my post wasn't about racism or stereotyping in general! It was about a SPECIFIC feeling of apprehension regarding incompetent law enforcement officers in relation to MY DOG and MY SONS.

But, thanks for sharing anyway. Ultimately, it's good to know where the people you're talking to are coming from.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm just going to say this, I'm not taking anyone's side here. Let's make that quite clear, right here, right now. Me being of mixed ethnicity, and having mixed children, and loving the breed we all share here, I understand where Gimbler's coming from. She wasn't trying to pull the race card, or stereotype in any way. At least, that's not what I got from reading her initial post. She was simply expressing her thoughts on the similarities between our dogs and us who are mixed. 

Not trying to threadjack here, but I can't tell you how many times I've been out with friends (who happen to be black), and someone they know sees me with them, and automatically assumes I'm the police b/c I'm white. Those who truly know me, know that I'm actually not white, but a mix of different things. My father is black/mexican/kickapoo indian, and my mother is polish/german/french/swedish/italian/cherokee/narogancette indian. I appear to be white, but am not. Like I tell everyone, don't let my skin tone fool you!

However, this discussion wasn't meant to be about black and white, or shades in between. So, I'm closing this thread so that there is no more misunderstandings or drama. Thanks for the good discussion Gimbler. Now, can we move on and get back to the dogs? Lol.


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