# Looking for a pure bred red nose apbt..in Ontario



## pitbull1986 (May 16, 2011)

I own a blue nose and a rednose female. They are both 2 years old. Im loooking to add a male rednose into my pack. Msg me friends.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I thought there was still a ban in ontario ? has that changed?


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

We r a site that is focused on education not finding u a pet. Red nose and blue nose are just colors not bloodlines. So in theroy u could find a pure bred APBT that has a red nose, but a pure bred Red Nose doesn't exist. What do u plan on doing with said dog? A lot of red APBTs with the OFRN strain tend to be pretty firey.


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## pitbull1986 (May 16, 2011)

friend i know all of this. there is nobody that's more pro pitbull then myself. Ill be training him myself for obedience, and he will be a family pet. Like i said I have two dogs that are highly trained and obedient . i want to add a male into my pack.


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## Brucie (Jun 30, 2012)

What the hell is a red nose pit.

Trashy gangster slang, used by trash who fight dogs, that caught on and pisses me off so much.


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## pitbull1986 (May 16, 2011)

Odin's_BlueDragon said:


> We r a site that is focused on education not finding u a pet. Red nose and blue nose are just colors not bloodlines. So in theroy u could find a pure bred APBT that has a red nose, but a pure bred Red Nose doesn't exist. What do u plan on doing with said dog? A lot of red APBTs with the OFRN strain tend to be pretty firey.


The Story of the Old Family Reds Written by Richard F. Stratton
This is the American Pitbull Terrier First, an overview. No one really knows when these dogs first came to this country, but the great breeder William J. Lightner once told me that his grandfather raised them before the Civil War. It is quite possible that they were even here during the Revolutionary War. In any case, it is clear that dogs of this breed came from various parts of Europe, specifically Spain and Sicily. But little is known about these earliest importation's, because nothing was written about them. (Books and periodicals containing information about dogs were rare in those days.) Their existence can be inferred from artwork, however. The most famous importation's were from Ireland, and were generally made by the Irish themselves after they emigrated to this country. (The bulk of the Irish pit dog importation's coincides or closely follows the great Irish migration that resulted from the famous potato famine.) Most of the Irish dogs were small and very closely inbred, but their gameness was proverbial especially that of the group of strains that was the "Old Family Reds" (just one segment of the Old Family bloodlines) is reprinted from Bloodlines Journal. It has always seemed to me that the good old Pit Bull is a breed that is at once primitive and futuristic. He looks no more out of place in the ancient landscapes of 16th century paintings than he does in the ultra-modern setting. It is beyond my capabilities to imagine an end to him, for every generation seems to supply a nucleus of hard core devotees completely committed to the breed. In any case, you can look into the murky past, and you will find it difficult to discern a beginning place for the breed, and, fortunately, the future seems to threaten no demise either. Ours is a breed that has a definite mystique. Part of it, no doubt, stems from the fact that it is an old breed and deeply steeped in tradition. Old strains are a particularly fascinating part of this tradition, and the Old Family Red Nose is one of the better known old strains. The appearance of the red-nosed dogs always attracts attention, but it takes a little getting used to for some people to consider them truly beautiful. However, no one denies that they radiate "class." Characteristically, a dog of the red-nosed strain has a copper-red nose, red lips, red toe nails, and red or amber eyes. Some think the strain was bred for looks. Others consider any dog that just happens to have a red nose to be pure Old Family Red Nose. It is hoped that the following will dispel such notions. About the middle of the last century there was a family of pit dogs in Ireland bred and fought chiefly in the counties of Cork and Kerry that were known as the "Old Family." In those days, pedigrees were privately kept and jealously guarded. Purity of the strains was emphasized to the extent that breeders hardly recognized another strain as being the same breed. For that reason all the strains were closely inbred. And whenever you have a closed genetic pool of that type, you are likely to have a slide toward the recessive traits, because the dominants, once discarded, are never recaptured. Since red is recessive to all colors but white, the "Old Family" eventually became the "Old Family Reds." When the dogs began coming to America, many were already beginning to show the red nose. The "Old Family" dogs found their way to America mainly via immigrants. For example, Jim Corcoran came to this country to fight the world heavyweight champion John L. Sullivan, and stayed to become a Boston policeman. He sent for dogs from his parents back in Ireland, and his importation's and expertise as a great breeder have earned him a prominent place in American (Pit) Bull Terrier history. Many other Irish immigrants also sent back to their families to request for dogs, and the "Old Family" and related strains became firmly established in the United States. At this point, there are several factors that are somewhat confusing to a student of the breed. For one thing, the term "family dogs" was used in two ways: It could mean a strain of dogs that was a family unto itself that was kept by a number of unrelated people in Ireland, or it could refer to a strain of dogs that was kept and preserved through the years by a family group. However, the old Family Reds seem to be of the first category. Another point that arises is that with all these importation's from Ireland (and there were importation's from other countries, too including Spain), where do we get off calling our breed the American Bull Terrier! Well...that's a point! The breed does not really belong to any one country or even any one era! However, I don't believe many people are in favor of changing the name of the breed even though it is not strictly an American breed. For that matter, it is not really a Bull Terrier, either! But the name American (Pit) Bull Terrier has become part of that tradition we were talking about, and I think most of us prefer to keep it as a formal name for the breed. Back to the Old Family Reds. The first big splash made by the red noses was back around 1900 when the great breeder William J. Lightner, utilizing Old Family Red bloodlines, came up with some red-nosed dogs that really made a name for themselves. Now Llightner once told me that he did not breed for that red-nosed coloration. In fact, he did not even like it and he only put up with it because the individual dogs were of such high quality. Eventually Lightner gave up the red-nosed strain when he moved from Louisiana to Colorado, where he came up with a new strain that consisted of small dark-colored dogs with black noses. He had given up on the other strain because they were running too big for his taste and because he didn't like the red noses. At this point in our story we come upon a comical, but highly respected, figure in the personage of Dan McCoy. I have heard old-time dog men from all over the country talk about this man. Apparently, he was an itinerant fry cook and not much of a success in life judged by normal standards, but he didn't care about that. What he did care about were Pit Bulldogs, and he had a wealth of knowledge about the breed. His uncanny ability to make breedings that "clicked" made him a respected breeding consultant and a most welcome guest at any dog man's house even if he had just dropped off a freight train! Always with his ear to the ground regarding anything that involved APBT's, McCoy got wind of the fact that an old Frenchman in Louisiana by the name of Bourgeous had preserved the old Lightner red-nosed strain. So he and Bob Hemphill went to that area, and with the aid of Gaboon Trahan of Lafayette, they secured what was left of the dogs. McCoy took his share to the Panhandle of Texas and placed them with his associates L.C. Owens, Arthur Harvey and Buck Moon. He then played a principal role in directing the breedings that were made by these fanciers. And from this enclave came such celebrated dogs as Harvey's Red Devil and Owens (Fergusons) Centipede. Hemphill eventually kept only dogs of the re-nosed strain. According to Hemphill, it was McCoy who first started using the term "Old Family Red Nose" for the strain. Another breeder who was almost synonymous with the red-nosed strain was Bob Wallace. However, Bob's basic bloodline was not pure Old Family Red Nose. But in the late 40's he was looking for the red-nosed strain in order to make an "out cross." (Bob was a scrupulously careful breeder who planned his breedings years in advance.) Unfortunately, he found that the strain was nearly gone, most of it having been ruined by careless breedings. He managed to obtain seven pure red-noses of high quality whose pedigrees he could authenticate. The strain subsequently saved for posterity and in the 1950's became the fashionable strain in Pit Bull circles. In fact, it was Bob Wallace himself who wrote an article in 1953 called "There Is No Magic in Red Noses" in which he tried to put a damper on the overly enthusiastic claims being made by some of the admirers of the strain. No more fervent admirer of the Old Family Reds ever lived than Wallace, but he obviously felt that the strain could stand on its own merits. Many strains have been crossed with the Old Family Reds at some time in their existence. Consequently, nearly any strain will occasionally throw a red-nosed pup. To many fanciers, these red-nosed individuals are Old Family Red Noses even though the great preponderance of their blood is that of other strains. Sometimes such individuals will fail to measure up and thereby reflect undeserved discredit on the red-nosed strain. However, as Wallace said, the red noses should not be considered invincible either. They produce their share of bad ones as well as good ones just as all strains do. As a strain, the Old Family Red Nose has several things going for it. First, it is renowned for its gameness. Second, some of the most reputable breeders in all Pit Bull history have contributed to the preservation and development of the strain. People like Lightner, McClintock, Menefee and Wallace, to mention just a few. "Regardless of one's historical perspective, these old amber eyed, rednosed, red-toe-nailed, red coated dogs represent some of the most significant pit bull history and tradition that stands on four legs today." Richard F Stratton"


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

some one knows how to cut and paste.... lol


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## rabbit (Jan 14, 2012)

Odin's_BlueDragon said:


> some one knows how to cut and paste.... lol


LOL
But to pitbull1986 we don't refer to dogs by color on here. color means nothing so we speak about them by breed name.


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## pitbull1986 (May 16, 2011)

Brucie said:


> What the hell is a red nose pit.
> 
> Trashy gangster slang, used by trash who fight dogs, that caught on and pisses me off so much.


trashy gangster slang hahaha 
the red nose strains are historic man you don't know what your talking about these dogs and that name have been around for hundreds of years get a fucking clue


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Is the breed banned where you live? How do you keep your dogs safe when they are banned?
Lots of dogs have red noses man, KNOW YOUR SHIT! OFRN is a bloodline of the APBT, but the APBT are not the only dogs who have red noses. Please understand that. 

What BREED or bloodline of dog are you looking for that has a red nose? JUST OFRN? (not every "red nose pit bull" is OFRN, I am sure you realize this)


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## pitbull1986 (May 16, 2011)

Odin's_BlueDragon said:


> We r a site that is focused on education not finding u a pet. Red nose and blue nose are just colors not bloodlines. So in theroy u could find a pure bred APBT that has a red nose, but a pure bred Red Nose doesn't exist. What do u plan on doing with said dog? A lot of red APBTs with the OFRN strain tend to be pretty firey.


and why is it that this site is not for me to look for a pet
is there some other reason to have them?
im not sure about you but i like having pets


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

ames said:


> Is the breed banned where you live? How do you keep your dogs safe when they are banned?
> Lots of dogs have red noses man, KNOW YOUR SHIT! OFRN is a bloodline of the APBT, but the APBT are not the only dogs who have red noses. Please understand that.
> 
> What BREED or bloodline of dog are you looking for that has a red nose? JUST OFRN? (not every "red nose pit bull" is OFRN, I am sure you realize this)


:goodpost: ive said it before and ill say it again. red nose is just a description. not every red nose is OFRN.

oh and watch the language, we are a family friendly forum. :angel:


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## pitbull1986 (May 16, 2011)

ames said:


> Is the breed banned where you live? How do you keep your dogs safe when they are banned?
> Lots of dogs have red noses man, KNOW YOUR SHIT! OFRN is a bloodline of the APBT, but the APBT are not the only dogs who have red noses. Please understand that.
> 
> What BREED or bloodline of dog are you looking for that has a red nose? JUST OFRN? (not every "red nose pit bull" is OFRN, I am sure you realize this)


so red nose is not a strain but then you tell me about the ofrn red nose strain your to much.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

pitbull1986 said:


> and why is it that this site is not for me to look for a pet
> is there some other reason to have them?
> im not sure about you but i like having pets


u misunderstood what i said, my dear sir. we are not a site dedicated to helping u find a pet. we are focused on educating pet owners, not finding them their new pet.


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

pitbull1986 said:


> *so red nose is not a strain but then you tell me about the ofrn red nose strain* your to much.


first good thing u've said.

red nose does not equal OFRN


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

pitbull1986 said:


> trashy gangster slang hahaha
> the red nose strains are historic man you don't know what your talking about these dogs and that name have been around for hundreds of years get a fucking clue


You get a clue! First don't cuss around here, we're not hear to read your foul language.
And the breed is banned where you live. No one here will help you find a dog, most wouldn't even respond to your ignorance:cheers:


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## Brucie (Jun 30, 2012)

pitbull1986 said:


> trashy gangster slang hahaha
> the red nose strains are historic man you don't know what your talking about these dogs and that name have been around for hundreds of years get a fucking clue


I know more about this dog (apbt), the staffordshire bull terrier, american bully, and just about any other bully then you will EVER know.

Get educated, those dogs are like that due to a recessive gene which causes black dogs to turn blue (diluted) and brown dogs turn fawn.

Gangsters who fought the pitbull would use rednose or bluenose as a slang from the color of a dog's nose, and when selling the dog they would list them as blue nose or red nose.

EDUCATED people know that there are no rednose or bluenose bloodlines.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

pitbull1986 said:


> I own a blue nose and a rednose female. They are both 2 years old. Im loooking to add a male rednose into my pack. Msg me friends.





pitbull1986 said:


> so red nose is not a strain but then you tell me about the ofrn red nose strain your to much.


Based on your first post, you refer to both your dogs by nose color. Then you back pedal and act like you know what you're talking about, which clearly you do not.

No one here is impressed by your know it all attitude nor is this a site that peddles pups. There are people here with more knowledge and respect for this breed than you have in your little toe so please, show some respect.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I wasn't going to go here but I have too. Drives me nuts when people buy dogs in a province that has a BAN in place. For nothing more then your own want and greed you put dogs at risk, there is no risk to you but if they pick up your dog it is instant death. To me that is just greedy on your part. I have friends who live in ontario and who have done the same thing and I have told them how I feel about it , very irresponsible. It is one thing for the dogs that were there before a ban but to bring new ones in is not what a responsible person does. If you want this breed there why not focus on this election here and getting the ban lifted or move to an area where they are allowed. Even if I knew of a great breeder with OFRN dogs I would not recommend them to you and any responsible breeder I know would not sell you a puppy living in Ontario.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

pitbull1986 said:


> friend i know all of this. *there is nobody that's more pro pitbull then myself.* Ill be training him myself for obedience, and he will be a family pet. Like i said I have two dogs that are highly trained and obedient . i want to add a male into my pack.


then spell the breeds name correctly


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

pitbull1986 said:


> so red nose is not a strain but then you tell me about the *ofrn red nose strain* your to much.


OK you realize that you wrote OFRN red nose, which is saying "old fashioned red nose red nose" Correct red nose is not a strain, but OFRN is strain. What are you missing????


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

OFRN (Old Family Red Nose) is a strain...Red Devil/Corvino is a bloodline.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

How do you not get this 

Red nose = a dog who's nose is red. Now just because the dog has a red nose doesn't mean the dog is OFRN. 
OFRN is only one strian of APBT. Many different Bloodlines thrown dogs with red noses. Theres a lot who throw both black and red noses in the same litter. 
Point is the color of the nose has no significance whatsoever. It's just a discription of what color the dogs nose is.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> OFRN (Old Family Red Nose) is a strain...Red Devil/Corvino is a bloodline.


Thanks I screwed that up lol but point being derrrrr


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

ames said:


> Thanks I screwed that up lol but point being derrrrr


No sweat Ames, and I wasn't trying to single you out by any means Love the derrrrr


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

i was just explaining this concept to a friend of mine the other day. he was genuinely seeking knowledge and not arguing so the exchange was more positive than this.
but i used a human analogy that seemed to work...
red hair is commonly associated with the Irish. having red hair is a genetic trait that many people consider an identifying characteristic of Irish decent.
does this mean that every red head is Irish?
does this mean that every Irish person has red hair?
does this mean that only Irish people can exhibit the trait?
... of course not. to actually believe this would make you a severely closed minded person with limited exposure to your fellow humans.
and if you have the same type of misconceptions when it comes to dogs, it doesn't make you a bad person, but it does make you a novice.
quoting Stratton and regurgitating dog history does not make you an authority. you lack true understanding no matter how "pro" you are for the breed.


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## ScratchingGameDog (Sep 27, 2010)

why go with red nose them clear nose dogs is where its at.


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## Kenaii (Dec 22, 2011)

Oh Man, where do I start?

1.) Not every dog that just so happens to have a Red nose is an OFRN dog, I've seen Mutts and Bullies with Red noses, and Richard Stratton said in the VERY book you copied that article from that not all Red Nosed dogs are OFRN, but I see you convienently left that out.
Also, the last of the PURE OFRN dogs died out a long time ago.

2) Clearly you're not "Pro Pit Bull" Considering you said you own a "Blue Nose" Pit which is most likely a Bully or a Staff.

3.) Just so you know, there is a space between Pit and Bull. It's Pit bull not Pitbull.
Hard for me to believe you're so "Pro Pit Bull" when you can't even spell the breed's name right.'

4.) Sorry, I just can't get over that whole "NO ONE IS MORE PRO PIT BULL THAN ME!!!1!!!" Claim. Do you realize how bold that statement is? Do you really think you know more than Richard Stratton or The Colby Family?


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Kenaii said:


> Oh Man, where do I start?
> 
> 1.) Not every dog that just so happens to have a Red nose is an OFRN dog, I've seen Mutts and Bullies with Red noses, and Richard Stratton said in the VERY book you copied that article from that not all Red Nosed dogs are OFRN, but I see you convienently left that out.
> Also, the last of the PURE OFRN dogs died out a long time ago.
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Kenaii said:


> Oh Man, where do I start?
> 
> 1.) Not every dog that just so happens to have a Red nose is an OFRN dog, I've seen Mutts and Bullies with Red noses, and Richard Stratton said in the VERY book you copied that article from that not all Red Nosed dogs are OFRN, but I see you convienently left that out.
> Also, the last of the PURE OFRN dogs died out a long time ago.
> ...


The OFRN is still alive and well


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## Kenaii (Dec 22, 2011)

Saint Francis said:


> The OFRN is still alive and well


I've heard that, but I've also heard that the Original OFRN Strain died out.
Not exactly sure which one to believe lol. I've heard Flametree and Southern Inferno have some OFRN dogs, they're great looking dogs but I've alays been a bit skeptical of people with 'OFRN' Dogs.
Definately gonna research the line a bit more...


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

There are still some out there, although I don't think many people have it or let it go very often. Back in the 90s my mom had a friend who drove half way across the country to go pick up an OFRN pup. Lol. His pup came off this 28lb fireball named True. Now he said this was a private yard, he didn't deal with the public at all. You either knew him or never heard of him. Anywho he was so secretive about his yard he wouldn't even go through registries. He had organized books with hand written peds.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Kenaii said:


> I've heard that, but I've also heard that the Original OFRN Strain died out.
> Not exactly sure which one to believe lol. I've heard Flametree and Southern Inferno have some OFRN dogs, they're great looking dogs but I've alays been a bit skeptical of people with 'OFRN' Dogs.
> Definately gonna research the line a bit more...


The Old Family Reds have been extinct for over 100 years.
They were the *original* fighting dogs from Ireland. 
They were a foundation breed of the ApBT, so likewise, they are the backbone of the *Old Family Red Nose Strain.*
When the Irish Pit Dogs were bred to the black nose Pit Dogs, the red nose was retained in some.
So, any red nosed dog that was bred to another red nosed dog, always produced red nosed pups. 
The *OFRN* strain is still alive today. As Robert Hemphill used to say of the strain: *The Gamest ever bred.*
This shows the "color freaks" out there that these dogs were never bred for their color,
but for their performance in the []. Not only was the color maintained,
bit the fighting characteristics of the Old Family Reds was preserved as well.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Goemon said:


> The Old Family Reds have been extinct for over 100 years.
> They were the *original* fighting dogs from Ireland.
> They were a foundation breed of the ApBT, so likewise, they are the backbone of the *Old Family Red Nose Strain.*
> When the Irish Pit Dogs were bred to the black nose Pit Dogs, the red nose was retained in some.
> ...


:thumbsup: As far as the true OFRN is concerned, some have found the pot of gold...while others keep chasing the rainbow. I have my treasure, and I'm sure you do as well


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## Kingsgurl (Dec 16, 2011)

Irregardless of the color or bloodline you seek, the fact that there is a BAN on pit bull type dogs where you live does not change. If you wish to own the breed, move. You can not be 'pro pit bull' if you break the law and place your dogs lives in danger each and everyday.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Kingsgurl said:


> Irregardless of the color or bloodline you seek, the fact that there is a BAN on pit bull type dogs where you live does not change. If you wish to own the breed, move. You can not be 'pro pit bull' if you break the law and place your dogs lives in danger each and everyday.


:goodpost:

Owning one of these dogs in a banned area is very selfish. You are not only risking their lives but also this could hurt a lot of us who do right by are dogs. Honestly what I would do if I was you. Find a foster for the ones you have now and use the money to buy a new pup to move out of the banned area where your dogs will be safe.


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## Escobar94 (Aug 25, 2013)

you find any im tryna find one tooo, mesage back when you find one,


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Escobar94 said:


> you find any im tryna find one tooo, mesage back when you find one,


Did you not even read the thread? WOW!

Sent from Petguide.com App


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## Wong Izzy (Nov 6, 2013)

I am not here to chime in on any of the bloodlines or strains, I would just like to talk a little bit about the BSL Law that was passed in 2005 in Ottawa Ontario Canada. This Law was passed by the Liberal Government In 2005 but in 07 it was lifted. As of right now in 2013 their is no BSL Law in Ottawa, it is up in the air as the 3 other parties have been fighting the bill since. This was confirmed by Ottawa By law themselves. They are no inforcign the law as the Bill 16 has been through two different signing and has to only pass a 3rd then will come into affect which will kill the BSL and lift any ban in place. So now please don't attack me I am only stating the truth. If any one out there do not believe me and live in ontario call the Ottawa By Law and ask for yourselves.

Good Day


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## Wong Izzy (Nov 6, 2013)

I would just like to state that I own a Razors Edge x Gotti line American Bully and he is registered with the city of Ottawa from City Hall.

Thank You


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