# Yard accient- warning for multiple dogs



## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Yee haw! world war 3 broke out!
So I have a large kennel for those that do not know and I do have a few dogs able live together in peace out in the dog runs but everyone else is separate. They are never left alone when I leave the house I separate them but I do have one pair that have always been he exception till now. Both dogs are "petbulls" and are 8 years old and have always been able to be together. They have occasionally had a tift or two but nothing big. Trinity is my semi retired competition Obed dog and demo dog. I use to use her when I taught class and need a demo dog, she would just hold a down stay in the middle of the room till I needed her. She has always been a quirky dog and a little bit of a nerd but since she started to get sick she has been acting real mental, not HA just a little off. She has thyroid issues but recently we think she has cancer somewhere we have not found. She just looks sick and despite all the tests we have done we have not pin pointed anything yet. Then there is Rage, she too is a rescue and just the sweetest dog in the world. I got her as a pup and raised her just like anything other dog and wanted to do agility with her. when she hit about 9 months everything in the world scared her and I tried to work her out of it but it never worked. She is happy to stay at home but really scared to go off our property. So she just stays home and we enjoy her. So these guys have always been pretty good but lately Trinity has been more aggressive with her and pushing her around. They got into a tift a few weeks ago but one that stopped as soon as I yelled at them, again they are not really serious. Well Tempest and Weitzen are in the run across from them and I asked my husband to rotate dogs before he left. Tempest and Weitzen hate Trin and Rage so they were barking at them and getting them all crazy. Trinity turned around and attacked Rage. Now for some reason every dog in my house (now including Trin) hates poor baby Rage. Rage never starts a fight but she sure does finish them. Rage whooped Trinity and my husband ran into the run with a rake (it was closer than the break sticks) and as soon as he ran in there they stopped and hid in the dog house..... together..... lol Trinity has about a 3 inch cut along her cheek that we stapled back up and Rage is pretty much untouched.

I give this long story for those that think their dogs will always get along. So after 8 years I think I am going to separate them. What normally happens is when you reach a certain age and an old house dog passes away you get to move in the main house and out of the kennels. Well I think Rage is coming in early, I just do not want to run the risk of them getting into it again it's not fair for them to get tore up.

Leonard suggested putting Trinity down since she is slowly losing her mind but she has been a good working dog and my heart cannot put her down just because she is a little nuts! She is safe with people and I still do compete with her in Rally, just 2 months ago she won second place in advanced rally in UKC. So we will just separate them, I have pictures of the cut and after we stapled it, man it is gnarly! lol


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Trinity had a collar on made by Nizmo's K9 Supply and I think it saved her from more damage. Good thing these guys were not gamebred or I could have had a dead dog.

Trinity just after it happened









Cleaned out, you can see how big it was









All stapled up


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I hear you Lisa .. Bogart is really starting to test AVA the older he gets I just have this feeling it's going to happen soon they are going to thump hard. He is extremely dominate over her he will bite her by the cheeks and ears and literally try and drag her by her skin. I just know it won't be much longer before I will need to separate them. The older Bogart gets the more aggressive he is becoming.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

PS Lisa what type of staple gun do you use I am assuming it's a medical one? I need to grab one. I have used surgical glue to close a small wound but I need a staple gun. Which one do you recommend?


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ouch-
Nice job closing it.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

It just sucks I need to separate them, they probably could be out int the runs again because they do not hold a grudge but I do not want them to tear each other up again. Darn it Trin!! lol

Actually the ones who are in trouble are Weitzen and Tempest. I am putting E collars on both of them next time they go out, the first time they start crap they are TOAST!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Sadie said:


> PS Lisa what type of staple gun do you use I am assuming it's a medical one? I need to grab one. I have used surgical glue to close a small wound but I need a staple gun. Which one do you recommend?


There are different types and if you do a search for skin staplers on Ebay you will see a bunch. Get the wider ones not the tiny one. The smaller ones are too hard to get into the dogs. Just make sure the leave the bottom stitch out so the wound can drain properly and make sure to get a staple remover.

Veterinary Medical First Aid EMT Skin Stapler Wide 35W | eBay

@ Mach0 Thanks


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Awww man  I saw the pics on FB poor thing. I'm sorry to here this I was thinking those 2 would stay friends forever.
I have been quite worried about this myself since Marley is kinda acting the same way. We have to take Mar in for another X-ray, they think he has a tumor in his chest  I have been slowly limiting the boys time together but I think they might need to be separated for good. I think that now that Dosia has matured and his DA has set in it will be best for all of us, but if the X-ray shows that it is a tumor and it's on the inside of the ribcage they will not be able to operate and I will have to say goodbye wich is just gunna break me


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

OH NOOOO I love Marley.... he is my Favorite non APBT. Sorry to hear that let me know what the vet says.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

I will definatly keep you posted. It's such a big bummer cause he's been in such great shape for an old dog and this was so unexpected. I really don't know what I'll do he was my first kid


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

performanceknls said:


> There are different types and if you do a search for skin staplers on Ebay you will see a bunch. Get the wider ones not the tiny one. The smaller ones are too hard to get into the dogs. Just make sure the leave the bottom stitch out so the wound can drain properly and make sure to get a staple remover.
> 
> Veterinary Medical First Aid EMT Skin Stapler Wide 35W | eBay
> 
> @ Mach0 Thanks


Lisa Thanks A lot .. I am buying it now wow that's pretty cheap but a must! Sorry about the accident but I am glad you shared your exp with the forum. Especially for those who believe these dogs can't turn on at anytime for any reason. It happens and it's good that people can learn from these posts. Good luck with the dogs it sucks to separate them but you know better than anyone it's for the best.


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## kodiakgirl (May 9, 2009)

Man, that really sucks! and @KG-- sending prayers your way for Marley!


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Lisa, how do you actually do the stapling? I mean is there some type of "numbing" done to the cheek first, or do you just start stapling and the pain is tolerated? Oh yeah, I officially love Rage, so she has at least someone else who doesn't hate her  It's ironic because I just witnessed two labs get into eachother and could tell that the one was definitely trying to dominate the other. The owner said pretty much the same thing, that this never really happens between them. I guess ALL dogs can have this occur between them. In this case, jealousy was the primer the ignited the labs.

P.S. Krystal, I will be thinking of Marley, and I know what you are feeling too well


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

poor trinity  props on closing it up!


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

poor pups! and ouch! Looked painful! What a good pup though posing for pics while you clean it up!! lol

Never need examples of why these dogs should be separated, but always good to hear again to reinforce those who think they can.

Here is another example, poor pup and these people just get rid of one instead of crate and rotate or never leaving them alone... Adopt a Pet :: PUMPKIN PIE - Arlington, VA - American Pit Bull Terrier Mix


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Well I let Trin out to potty and check on her and she is fine, the Rage went out to potty and she has a few punctures but nothing bad. She has a good one on her leg so she is hobbling around, poor baby Rage... BTW I do not feel sorry for Trin she got what she deserved!
I was putting Trin in her crate and noticed my Weitzen holding her leg up in her crate and I guess in all the excitement Tempest must have nailed her in the leg. She has a puncture in her paw and all of them are on crate rest now.... stupid shepherd she always starts havoc!!

@ Christan, no we do not numb them up for staples it just pinches and not comfortable but nothing that needs to be numbed up. Many times when I was a tech we just stapled the dogs with out any meds as long as we could clean it out good without sedation. Some types of tears need to be sutured but this could just be stapled. You just put the two ends together an staple  it takes a bit more technique than that and I do not advice the novice to try it. You have to know what can and cannot be stapled. No punctures or muscle tears or over joints. But a good tear like she had is fine for staples, the most important thing is cleaning it out good before you put them in. I just realized my supplies are low so I need to stock up.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

If it's a bad enough wound I also use antibiotics to keep it from getting infected. When bogart had a open wound similar to the one Lisa posted pics of. I used surgical vet glue, made sure to clean and disinfect the wound thoroughly and then closed it. The problem is if you don't clean it well or it gets infected it will abscess which is an even bigger problem which is why if it's a deep enough wound and not just a little scrap I use cephalexin for a week to prevent infection. That's just me it really depends on the wound though over use of antibiotics is not good either. You really have to be a good judge in Bogart's case the wound was deep enough where antibiotics were needed.


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## Bruce TGPs (Dec 24, 2010)

Jeffers sales the staple kit for about $12,


Sadie said:


> PS Lisa what type of staple gun do you use I am assuming it's a medical one? I need to grab one. I have used surgical glue to close a small wound but I need a staple gun. Which one do you recommend?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Bruce TGPs said:


> Jeffers sales the staple kit for about $12,


Thank You as well Bruce


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

Nice job with the tidy up!, pretty standard facial cut and due to a swift reaction its great thats all you had to deal with. I feel you on that older dog and i couldnt put it down when its still doing well crazy or not! 

And great work by making the thread too! Some people are afraid to admit when they have a yard scrap but it happens too everyone and sometimes just cant be avoided, showing that it happens to even the most experienced handler help show the newcomers to the breed to allways be ready for the worst and expect it to happen as to not get lax.


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## Gimbler (Jan 29, 2010)

Poor Trinity... I lubs her...

Thanks for posting this - it is an unfortunate event, but it's serving as a good reminder to the rest of us. I know my husband respects you (I've made him watch your competition videos! lol) So, I just read your post to him and showed him the pics of Trinity's cheek.

Jake get crated when we leave the house but it's something my husband likes to constantly "revisit" - like it's someday going to be okay to leave them both with free roam of the house. Nevaaaahhhh....!

It's like he forgets the deal we made when we adopted her and we have to start the discussion at square one every couple of months. And this lesson is especially timely as I'm going out of town for the weekend.

So, so sorry for your drama, but thanks for the graphic reminder.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

They come in three's I am so serious. Jeremy had a yard accident here with Slim and Mae ( it was a easy separate no issues) Aussie I believe is the one who just had an accident and now you... Always in threes......

Maes had something up her butt recently. She tried to go after Xena through our glass door 3 days later and well Xena defiantly turned on and its a good thing there was a door there or I think Mae would have met her match.


As Lisa said with multiple dogs this happens. Glad to know it was not serious.


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## Eric (Oct 21, 2010)

Well I am glad that your dogs are ok. That is a pretty gnarly cut, but it seems like she will be ok. You know, I would have thought the same thing; 8 years with no problems would have me thinking of them as friends for life. I hope your girl doesn't have cancer either, my old boy had it twice and it just wore him down the 2nd time bad..  Hope they can tolerate each other a little better 


KG - I hope Marley is ok! I like that boy a lot!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Gimbler said:


> Poor Trinity... I lubs her...
> 
> Thanks for posting this - it is an unfortunate event, but it's serving as a good reminder to the rest of us. I know my husband respects you (I've made him watch your competition videos! lol) So, I just read your post to him and showed him the pics of Trinity's cheek.
> 
> ...


That is why I posted this up for people like your husband who thinks it would be "ok" to leave them alone or that get complacent. I hope this educated other to stay on their toes and be prepared. I knew the risks when I let them be in the same run but I also know how to break up a fight and patch them up if needed.

After some evaluation we have 4 injured dogs....  I took Tempest for a demo dog when I was teaching agility tonight and she was limping. I cannot see where she got hurt so it is probably soft tissue and she is going on crate rest too. bummer


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

Good thread, I am going to tell a story that just happened yesterday. Maybe this will help somebody who "thinks" he knows his dogs. I always thought I knew when it was ok for my dogs to interact, and when it was time to separate them. 
First let me say that I have been around bull dogs since the late 70's, since I was a kid. So I felt I knew when a pup needed to be separated, "yea right!". I only have 2 bull dogs at this time, a older female, and a new 7 month old male pup. To make a long story short, my pup turned on the adult female. And even with some past experience breaking up fights, I could not get them apart myself. Every time I would separate the pup, the female would hit him again before I could get him away. After about 5 minutes, "that seemed like an hour" I separated the male pup, picked him up and ran with him. The female gave chase but then collapsed from a very deep laceration to her front shoulder. This was not a growling snarling tiff, this was a silent "I mean to do damage" scenario. They both should be fine, but the adult female got it a lot worse, and lost a lot of blood. 
I just feel horrible for Jewel. But never in my wildest dreams did I think that pup was going to turn on my female that he has grown up with, at 7 months old! I have always preached, "never trust bull dogs not to fight". But 7 months old? Well I feel like a complete fool! I am going to have to change it to, "never trust a bull dog not to fight, no matter what age!" :stick:


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Lisa, this is an invaluable thread. Hopefully everyone reads this and takes note.


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

ugh, im sorry that happened. but it does happen and thats the reality of owning these guys.
i feel like i saved a life with the collars. LMAO JK JK
with a yard that big you do a very good job of not letting this happen


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

dday said:


> Good thread, I am going to tell a story that just happened yesterday. Maybe this will help somebody who "thinks" he knows his dogs. I always thought I knew when it was ok for my dogs to interact, and when it was time to separate them.
> First let me say that I have been around bull dogs since the late 70's, since I was a kid. So I felt I knew when a pup needed to be separated, "yea right!". I only have 2 bull dogs at this time, a older female, and a new 7 month old male pup. To make a long story short, my pup turned on the adult female. And even with some past experience breaking up fights, I could not get them apart myself. Every time I would separate the pup, the female would hit him again before I could get him away. After about 5 minutes, "that seemed like an hour" I separated the male pup, picked him up and ran with him. The female gave chase but then collapsed from a very deep laceration to her front shoulder. This was not a growling snarling tiff, this was a silent "I mean to do damage" scenario. They both should be fine, but the adult female got it a lot worse, and lost a lot of blood.
> I just feel horrible for Jewel. But never in my wildest dreams did I think that pup was going to turn on my female that he has grown up with, at 7 months old! I have always preached, "never trust bull dogs not to fight". But 7 months old? Well I feel like a complete fool! I am going to have to change it to, "never trust a bull dog not to fight, no matter what age!" :stick:


I had to separate my pups at 8 months and Tempest's sister killed a full grown AST at 6 months old..... scary but we can never underestimate the power of these dogs.



aus_staffy said:


> Lisa, this is an invaluable thread. Hopefully everyone reads this and takes note.


thanks


Nizmo said:


> ugh, im sorry that happened. but it does happen and thats the reality of owning these guys.
> i feel like i saved a life with the collars. LMAO JK JK
> with a yard that big you do a very good job of not letting this happen


I wanted to test your collars out but not like that! LMAO really though it saved her from more damage as Rage was trying to get a hold of her neck and got the collar instead. So you collars hold up well in yard accidents! lol


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

quote; "I had to separate my pups at 8 months and Tempest's sister killed a full grown AST at 6 months old..... scary but we can never underestimate the power of these dogs."
Yes, we had to separate pups in the past. Sometimes as young as 10 to 12 weeks from each other. But I have never had a 6 to 7 month old pup attack a full grown bull dog of the opposite sex with the intensity and focus that I would only expect from two adults of the same sex. Live and learn I guess, that will never happen again!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I am starting to think I need to go with my gut instincts. Do any of you ever see it beforehand like you see it coming? I know it can come out of the blue but I have seen a pattern with Bogart the older he gets the more dominant he is becoming over our older female. And what use to look like play is now turning into something else. And I just have told myself he's too young to really do any damage. But last time they were playing bogart went for the side of her face bit down and was pulling on her skin and shaking his head like he was tugging on rope. Ava turned around and growled and bit him and walked away and bogart ran back after her to bite her again that's when I picked him up and put him back in the crate.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Sadie said:


> I am starting to think I need to go with my gut instincts. Do any of you ever see it beforehand like you see it coming? I know it can come out of the blue but I have seen a pattern with Bogart the older he gets the more dominant he is becoming over our older female. And what use to look like play is now turning into something else. And I just have told myself he's too young to really do any damage. But last time they were playing bogart went for the side of her face bit down and was pulling on her skin and shaking his head like he was tugging on rope. Ava turned around and growled and bit him and walked away and bogart ran back after her to bite her again that's when I picked him up and put him back in the crate.


Time to keep em separated dear. I had that happen with two females. They were the best of friends. When one hit 6 months of age- she put a hole in her face and ear. Not good. Some give signs and some don't. We all keep a close eye on my gsd and bully. The bully isl cool but my gsd is a prick and tries to dominate sometimes. That's when I step in and show dominance over both of them. I still gotta watch them and they seem to be great friends 99% of the time.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

Sadie said:


> I am starting to think I need to go with my gut instincts. Do any of you ever see it beforehand like you see it coming? I know it can come out of the blue but I have seen a pattern with Bogart the older he gets the more dominant he is becoming over our older female. And what use to look like play is now turning into something else. And I just have told myself he's too young to really do any damage. But last time they were playing bogart went for the side of her face bit down and was pulling on her skin and shaking his head like he was tugging on rope. Ava turned around and growled and bit him and walked away and bogart ran back after her to bite her again that's when I picked him up and put him back in the crate.


Hi Sadie; No there was no concrete warning. They didn't even play fight before this. She corrected him from time to time as he was growing up. And he has shown food aggression before, but nothing like this.

I was cleaning the pups "Nikema" under arms with peroxide, and putting an antibiotic cream on for his rash. As I was doing this I was giving him dog treats to keep him still. Jewel walked up, and whamo! it was on. Actually Jewels injuries are worse than I first thought.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I'm glad that everyone is safe girl  thankfully Leonard was on his toes!


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## JayHawk (Apr 4, 2010)

This was indeed an unfortunate event but it need to be pointed out that there is a difference between a yard accident and a calculated risk taken by the owner, placing 2 dogs in the same run is a risk (even if the dogs have only had minor tifts in the past) even if the owner has the knowledge and ability to separate the dogs in case of a fight and treat the wounds after. The owner stated the she knew these risks and though there may have never been a problem before, this time the dogs paid the price for the risk
Yard accidents can,do and will happen but the fact is that the vast majority can be easily prevented


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

dday said:


> Hi Sadie; No there was no concrete warning. They didn't even play fight before this. She corrected him from time to time as he was growing up. And he has shown food aggression before, but nothing like this.
> 
> I was cleaning the pups "Nikema" under arms with peroxide, and putting an antibiotic cream on for his rash. As I was doing this I was giving him dog treats to keep him still. Jewel walked up, and whamo! it was on. Actually Jewels injuries are worse than I first thought.


Yeah I here you the ones that come unexpected are usually the ones that end up pretty bloody. Bogart has been around Ava since he was about 3 months old like yours mine have been brought up together (which we both know doesn't matter) But I have just recently noticed him changing a lot and I can almost see it coming soon if I don't put the brakes on it now. I would rather prevent it if I know it's coming. I am glad your babies are ok. Man I tell you these pups are something else especially when they want to turn on full grown bulldogs LMAO!!!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Sadie said:


> I am starting to think I need to go with my gut instincts. Do any of you ever see it beforehand like you see it coming? I know it can come out of the blue but I have seen a pattern with Bogart the older he gets the more dominant he is becoming over our older female. And what use to look like play is now turning into something else. And I just have told myself he's too young to really do any damage. But last time they were playing bogart went for the side of her face bit down and was pulling on her skin and shaking his head like he was tugging on rope. Ava turned around and growled and bit him and walked away and bogart ran back after her to bite her again that's when I picked him up and put him back in the crate.


It might be time to separate them, sounds like it could get serious quick or just be ready when it happens. What a little stinker!



JayHawk said:


> This was indeed an unfortunate event but it need to be pointed out that there is a difference between a yard accident and a calculated risk taken by the owner, placing 2 dogs in the same run is a risk (even if the dogs have only had minor tifts in the past) even if the owner has the knowledge and ability to separate the dogs in case of a fight and treat the wounds after. The owner stated the she knew these risks and though there may have never been a problem before, this time the dogs paid the price for the risk
> Yard accidents can,do and will happen but the fact is that the vast majority can be easily prevented


Well I know that and I thought about that before titling it BUT when you post on an open forum about dog fights you have to be careful how you word it. Not just members of this forum read these site and any statement can be taken out of context. I have been on a Dog fighting watch list and their is no way I am calling it anything else. Unfortunately words can be used against you when you least expect it.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

yupe cheza found how what her fat head was for today, got ahold of my foster when let out to potty and if my mom wouldn't have rememebered her release command and i hadn't worked so hard with her my foster would have ended up with more then a couple puntures!!!


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## Loke-a-doke (Jun 11, 2010)

My roommates had their english mastiff and chihuahua in the same crate yesterday... 
I remember too my ex boyfriend had a friend who would put his 2 full-grown female pits in the same crate....like..forreal people?


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

I find it funny that every time someone mentions that they want a second Bulldog we all jump on them for letting two of them live together without separating them. Yet, most of us have tried it and have had it fail at one time or another. They are what they are and can lull you into a false sense of security and then it just happens. They LOVE to fight!!! Just like a man loves to chase women. We can hold back and then 6 year later in a bar, we fail Instincts are hard to control no matter what you're experience with the breed. This is why Novice owners have so much trouble.


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## bluefamily (Aug 8, 2007)

*woah...sooo sorry to hear*



kg420 said:


> Awww man  I saw the pics on FB poor thing. I'm sorry to here this I was thinking those 2 would stay friends forever.
> I have been quite worried about this myself since Marley is kinda acting the same way. We have to take Mar in for another X-ray, they think he has a tumor in his chest  I have been slowly limiting the boys time together but I think they might need to be separated for good. I think that now that Dosia has matured and his DA has set in it will be best for all of us, but if the X-ray shows that it is a tumor and it's on the inside of the ribcage they will not be able to operate and I will have to say goodbye wich is just gunna break me


wow...I will definately send good vibes your and Marleys way. My girl hannah has had pancreatitis and been at the vet for the last 2 days. We are waiting for liver panel results back and her repeat triglyceride levels to come back. She is back to her normal self though... I still can't help but worry... Good luck to everybody.

Yeah Lisa, you are right about the continued need for keeping the peace. Never means never...


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

that totally stinks! Sending prayers...


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> I
> 
> I wanted to test your collars out but not like that! LMAO really though it saved her from more damage as Rage was trying to get a hold of her neck and got the collar instead. So you collars hold up well in yard accidents! lol


hahaha. im glad she wasnt seriously hurt, she's too good looking for that :roll:


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Dang I'm sorry this happened, but I'm glad it wasn't worse.


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