# 1.5 yr old male growling



## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

3 weeks ago we were given a 1.5 year old male pit bull who had to be re-homed. We have a Maltese and two outside cats, but Ruger seems to do well with all of them. We had him neutered the first week with us, and I take him for regular 2-4 mile walk/runs. He has been very well behaved, appears to have had training, and is wonderful in every way...except he has growled at us a couple of times. I have a tendency to be afraid of a growling dog, but Ruger has not really scared me. His growls have seemed like a kid pouting, and he is easily distracted from them. He has actually shown his teeth, but a second later acts like he was not just growling. Every thing I have read tells me this is very bad. I have become very attached to Ruger and want to make this work. HELP???


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm not saying to ignore the growling as it usually is a warning sign unless the dog is at play. However, in three weeks time time the dog has been re-homed and is in an entirely different set of circumstances then it has been in for the last year and a half. 
I would suggest a complete physical examination if you haven't already just to rule out a physical problem. Then, spend some time on long walks not only 
for the exercise but to create a bond with the dog. 
Hopefully, in time the dog will realize that this is its home and can establish trust. 

How about some pictures of your pack? 

Joe


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you so much for your post, Joe. I will take your advice and post updates, as I am sure we will need guidance. Your post gives me hope. Ruger is incredible, and I want to make this work....but want to be realistic. Will post a pack pic soon!


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

My Pack. Bailey & Ruger


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Can you give us details surrounding the times when he growled? What was going on, what were you trying to do, what were you trying to get him to do, etc? 

This may sound crazy, but most of us here don't recommend correcting for the growling, as like Joe said, it's almost always a warning or a way of communicating. You giving us detailed accounts of the times he growled may help us to figure out what he might have been trying to communicate. 

The most important thing to remember, is Ruger has been through a lot in the last few weeks, between being rehomed, being neutered, and not being allowed time to adjust. It takes a good while for a dog to adjust to a new home, new rules/boundaries, and new pack members. 

After you respond, we'll be able to help more.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you for your post/interest. The first time Ruger growled, he was chewing on his bed and had been told "no" repeatedly, would stop for a moment, and then go back. Growling occurred when I said "no" and moved the bed with my foot. He gave a sheepish growl, but didn't look at me. Other times, it has been when I pushed his paws off the couch (I often sit with my laptop and he tries to get to me). The growls have not been on the first time, but more like the 3rd or 4th time in a row of correction. Most of the time, Ruger would look at me and growl and then go sit or lay down without instruction. Once or twice, my husband grabbed Ruger's collar, tugged and firmly say "no". Then, Ruger would sit or lay down.

I have changed the way I handle this and have not since experienced growls. I now put my laptop down and stand up, staying between him and the couch, moving to maintain the separation, if necessary, until he sits or lays down. This seems to have cut down his couch behavior and the growls. He doesn't chew on his bed anymore, either.

Ruger did growl at my husband once. I wasn't in the room, so I don't know what happened and my husband doesn't really know, either. When I heard him growl, I looked to see what was going on. I calmly called his name in a "come" tone and he immediately changed demeanor. 

Ruger has not growled since my original post. When I sense anxiety or excitement, I get treats and ask him to work with me on commands and he becomes very calm. 

I am more attached to this dog than any other I've ever been around and really want to make this work. I think he senses my husband as the ultimate pack leader, but I do 85% of the maintenance (exercise, feeding, potty trips, etc.), so Ruger seems most eager to please me and follow my direction. He and our Maltese are still working out their place in the pack, but for the most part I think that is going well. I would appreciate any insight or direction you may have to offer.

Thank you, again.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Hmm, interesting. It does sound like he's expressing his disagreement with corrections. I will also add that he is at the age of a typical rebellious teenager, as well. 

You're doing great with the redirection, and using yourself as a barrier between him and the furniture, as it sounds like you're teaching him that the furniture is off limits. 

Your husband couldn't describe what was going on when he growled at him? That would also help to give insight if we knew the details, like was he attempting to take his food bowl or a toy, or give a command combined with physical contact, etc....

Now, the statement about him and your Maltese working out their place in the pack.... that worries me. What exactly do you mean by this? I don't want to jump to conclusions here, but if there is any aggression between the two, I want to go ahead and warn you to please NEVER leave them unsupervised, and if there is any aggression between them at all, especially something that you may not understand as aggression or tension like stiff bodies, sideways looks, excessive licking of the lips, please separate them and do not allow them to be in contact with each other. I'm not saying Ruger is dangerous, but in moments of tension and excitement things can go awry very quickly and can potentially be the end for your Maltese. Not because of Ruger himself, or the breed that he is or is mixed with, but just because of the sheer difference in strength and size. 

Do you know how to effectively break up a dog fight without causing harm to yourself or the dogs involved, regardless of size? Do you own a break stick or have something in the house that can serve as one in an emergency? Are you prepared to do what needs to be done in the event of a fight?

Again, I don't mean to scare you, but these are very real questions, and important to know the answers to in a multi-dog house, especially when you choose to own a dog that can and most likely will be dog aggressive (DA) at some point in its life.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you for your post. Good, thought provoking, important information. The two dogs are never left unattended. At night, Bailey is in a Kennel and Ruger sleeps in his bed - both in our bedroom. During the day (often around 5 hours), Ruger is in a kennel and the maltese is free. Our walk/run time is exclusively with Ruger. We have 6 acres and Bailey is allowed in and out at will....she has lots of outdoor playtime with a neighbor's dog and with our outside cats. 

So far, Ruger and Bailey have been mostly friendly and playful. Ruger has seemed the more submissive in play, but I have noticed a gradual change. Both dogs follow me and sometimes seem jealous of the other's position next to me - they try to move each other out of the way - Ruger is not as submissive in this circumstance. They have, on occasion, growled or barked at each other and I have separated them. They sometimes chase each other around the house and their playful noises have changed tone, causing me to separate them (either different rooms or one in a kennel for a few minutes). I knew I needed to pay attention to their play, but it never occurred to me that I might need a break-stick. I will look into that immediately and no longer allow them to chase each other around the house.

I am thankful for this forum and the experienced, knowledgeable contributors who take the time to answer posts. Pit Bulls are serious pets that require much work and attention, and mistakes in the way I manage Ruger could be dangerous. 

Any additional thoughts or concerns you might have would be much appreciated, Especially with regard to helping Ruger and Bailey establish their positions while keeping Bailey safe.

Thank you.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Owning a break-stick is just a precaution, much like you would have a first aid kit in your house or car, jumper cables and a tire iron or 4-way, and a jack... just for precautionary preparedness, in hopes you don't actually ever need it, but you have it just in case. You can find a cheap alternative at your local Walmart in the sporting goods section, with the tents and canopies. At my Walmart, they have yellow plastic ones for $0.97 each.

It sounds like you've got a good handles on their play time and bed time. I know it seems like you're being a killjoy if you no longer allow them to play, and I'm not saying you have to stop play time, just be vigilant, and always prepared for anything. These dogs don't always growl or give any kind of verbal warning before a fight. You have to know your dog, and pay special, close attention to their body language and warning signs. Obviously, if you've not had him that long, it would be difficult for you to truly know his individual warning signs, but there are tell-tale signals that all dogs give off regardless of breed or age. 

I'm very impressed with your open-minded, willing to learn view on things (that's kind of rare around here) and I enjoy teaching as much as I do learning. 

As for them establishing positions in the pack.... since you and your husband should be Alpha, there should be no competition between them. How old is Bailey? Considering she was there first, and this is just how I do things in my house with my pack, feed her first, give treats first, show attention first. Ruger was brought into the pack last, so he gets everything second to Bailey. Mine all have individual attention time, simply because one of mine is very DA and will start a fight over the simplest of things, like one of the children showing one of the others attention and not her. My pack is taken out for potty breaks, fed, and rotated out in the house with family in the order they were added to the pack, the oldest having been here the longest, goes out first, gets his food first, gets family time first, bathed and groomed first, etc. I hope that makes sense to you. In my opinion, it helps to keep down confusion, as I have established pack order, so they don't have to. They are domestic animals, and not a feral pack, so there's no need for them to establish their own order. This lets them know I am in charge of everything they do, reaffirms the fact that I am alpha.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you, your post makes complete sense to me. I have looked into break-sticks and watched a couple of videos. I will give Walmart a try. I will also give your method - seniority first - a try. I haven't been very good about that. I guess I'm so excited to have Ruger and he listens so well, he gets treats first, fed first, etc. I will also try individual playtime with each of them, beginning with Bailey.

Going outside is different. Since Bailey is in and out at will, she darts when I open the door. Ruger has to wait until I go in or out before proceeding and has done very well with that process. Is it wrong to allow Bailey "at will" with different rules for Ruger? I know Ruger can never be "at will", and I don't want to create a problem with different rules.

Thank you, again, for your responses. I feel like I am the one who needs training to manage Ruger and have a balanced home with a Pit Bull.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

No, it's not a problem to have different rules. This is where the seniority comes into play as well. You can, of course, try incorporating a little bit of obedience with Bailey regarding the in and out process, just to give the idea that they follow the same rules, if you desire. The important thing to remember here is that dogs don't think on the same level as humans, so Ruger isn't necessarily going to sit there and think to himself "Why does Bailey get to come and go as she pleases and I have to work for it?" It will actually help to further establish that Bailey has seniority. As long as they follow the same basic house rules, like regarding furniture, rooms that are off limits, sitting before being fed or given treats, working for everything including your attention, they should be fine.

As for you needing training to manage your dogs and maintain balance, you're right! Owning a pit bull type dog is definitely a lifestyle change, and the entire house needs the same training and understanding in order to manage it in a way that works for that family. That's what we're here for, and we thrive on helping others to be breed ambassadors and represent these dogs in a good light. I may not always be able to get back to you right away with a response to a question, but I'm trying to be here more than I have been lately. I have a full plate in my personal life with work, school and family, but any of the staff or regular members can tell you I will always do my best to help someone out. No need to thank me for doing what comes naturally to me. My thanks will be shown in seeing a successful blended home with Ruger and Bailey, and seeing lots of photos shared, and plenty of updates *hint hint*. 

I'm glad things are working so well so far. I wish you and your pack nothing but continued success and many happy years to come.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you for this direction. In-house rules are all the same - only in and out of the house are different. Well, except that I don't usually make Bailey sit to get affection. Will change that going forward. 

As for updates, Ruger has not growled since this original post and really does seem more at ease. Our daily walk/run time has been very good for both of us. He seems to want nothing more than to please me. He likes and follows my husband, but is closer and more responsive to me. I still have work to do with Ruger, but have real hope we can make this work.


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

That is great news and we always appreciate when members post back with their results. You have a fantastic attitude with a willingness to learn. That is going to make the process easier and quicker for you and Ruger. Give yourself a big pat on the back, you're on your way to gaining his respect and removing his AND your stress. Nice. 

Joe


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks, Joe. Very much appreciated.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Additional, contradicting update - a little concerned and sad. I have scheduled an appointment with our vet and a behaviorist immediately following, regardless of check-up results. Can't get in until tomorrow. I have unstable or HA concerns but don't know if I am over-reacting....we have only had him a month. Unfortunately, we don't know much about his past.

Ruger has begun barking, sometimes with a snarl. He has become more DA with Bailey. He does not respond to my husband as he does to me, and this concerns my husband. Sometimes when my husband calls him, Ruger will look at me, as if waiting for approval, before responding. Additionally, Ruger will mouth my husband's hands almost every time Tim tries to pet him. If Ruger attempts to mouth my hands, I tell him "no", hold my hands away for a moment, and then pet again with no mouthing. This does not work for Tim...and Ruger doesn't do it to me very often.

Yesterday, after a very good, walk, Ruger seemed agitated the entire balance of the day. He had been PERFECT on the walk. He and Bailey were separated in different parts of the house (Ruger with me) when Bailey started barking at the back door-not uncommon. After a few moments, Ruger sat about 2 feet behind me, and began barking and added a snarl. I was confused by that - didn't know if he was trying to tell me I should check the back door, if he was irritated by Bailey barking, or if he was just unstable. I checked the back door, and I put Ruger in his kennel, I was a little concerned. He has done this before, but it was fleeting.

Later that evening, he seemed stressed, not accepting "no" very well and, while laying at my feet and looking in the direction of my husband (but not directly at him), gave a couple of low barks/growls - I have no idea what that was about. Everything was calm and quiet, and my husband's back was to Ruger. I thought perhaps working on commands with treats would help - but it didn't. He seemed more irritated. After a couple of fails, I wanted to end on a reward, so I gave him an easy, 5 feet away "come". He looked at me and barked, so I put him in his kennel for a few minutes. He is usually great with commands.

Last night and this morning, he tugged on the belt of my bathrobe and tried chewing on my house-shoes while I was wearing them and acted aggravated when I said no (he has done this before). I was on the phone and the biting on my house-shoes was a little painful, so I put him in his kennel for a few minutes. I let him out when I got off the phone, assuming he would lay in my room while I got ready for work, as usual. He didn't. He came out for a few minutes and then went back into his kennel and laid down. After that, he was particularly calm and loving until the time I left.

I am at a loss. His behavior has been odd and my husband does not trust him. I have had moments of apprehension, but have such an unbelievable affection for him and have, so far, been able to deal with his behavior. I don't know if he is showing signs of HA, instability, or if I am misreading him out of paranoia.

This may sound wrong to many people, but I am willing to re-home Bailey to eliminate some of Ruger's stress, as long as he is not HA in any way. A couple of month's ago, someone attempted to break-in on me at 4:30 a.m. (still dark outside). Because of circumstances, it was clear they were after ME, not our possessions. If they had waited just 2 minutes more (and they had been there for a while), I would have walked outside unprepared and my life would be different. I don't believe Ruger would protect our possessions, and I don't know if he would protect me, but I have a wonderful new sense of security with him. AND, I have a bond with him unlike anything I have ever known. I don't know if it's the breed or if it is him. I have been bitten before and afraid of some dogs. However, I am inexplicably drawn to Ruger's strength, magnificent, intimidating appearance, his need for exercise (I know, that sounds strange), witnessing the difference when he gets what he needs, and his obedience. I am crazy about him. Ruger often responds to my commands, even without words or treats - sit, stay, and come. How can we seem so in sync, but have apprehension or uncertainty? 

I am quite upset at the thought that Ruger may have HA tendencies or may be unstable. I don't want to give him up, but know I must be sensible. 

Any thoughts???????? Please?


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Here is the question you must answer honestly yourself:

*Do you trust the dog with all of your heart, towards all people, young and old, male and female? 
*
If you say "no," you have the answer you need, push all feelings aside.

Blind your eyes for a minute and look at the facts, not the dog (remember, he is a DOG, not a baby, and not like a human)....

And it is NOT the breed! That is the mistake many make, judging an entire breed by isolated dogs. 
I think the more he settles into your house, the more his true self is coming around.

How can you be crazy over a dog like that? Just his looks? He has problems, and you need to get rid of "fantasies" and dreams about puppy love.

If you need home protection, you need a dog you trust with your life, and I already know you do not, in your deepest heart, trust this dog. 
Take the grey zone away here, and make it a yes or no. Can't be a mix.

My advice would be to put him down, and select a better dog or buy a good pup you can let grow up with your family.

JMO. I don't tolerate dogs that have questionable temperament or that get nervous for no reason. 
Being territorial is one thing, but being a fear biter and HA is a whole other matter.

Oh, and if the dog is establishing dominance over you, every time you fail to do what he wants, he will growl and act aggressive. 
It will get worse and not better, if this is the case.

Don;t let people fool you either....it isn;t always how you raise them. 
The genetics that a dog inherits are what shapes them most. 
HA is hereditary, and if it is in him, an unstable temperament, there is nothing you can do to fix it. 
Don't fall in love or admire the traits you said....and be blinded to the reality of the situation.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Goemon, I am upset by your response, but appreciate your blunt honesty. I fear you are correct.

I am crazy about Ruger because he is so responsive to me, alone, and he is beautiful creature. No animal has ever been so eager to please me and be by my side. I won't lie, his looks do contribute to my feelings, as well. 

Your opinion is probably what I expected, but I am grasping at straws that maybe someone will have something hopeful to contribute. I do not completely trust Ruger with all my heart toward all people. I am heart-broken.

Thank you for your response. I will move forward with the vet visit and behaviorist, but suspect it will not end well for Ruger.

BTW, I wasn't very clear in my post when I said "I don't know if it's him or the breed", but that was in reference to what I was so attracted to about Ruger.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Just keep in mind that you are not at fault and you are not failing your dog. In fact you are taking responsibility where someone else wouldn't. No matter how this turns out, you're a hero in my book


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Well said redog. 

SM I know people don't like to hear the blunt truth, not sugar coated. 

As redog said, none of this is your fault. No matter what...but as I said, you have seen warning signs and if you ignore them, and something does happen, then you will only blame yourself. 

I'm behind a computer and can only go by what you say. If he is just being dominant then he may be able to be corrected. But if it is in his genetics, HA, then there is nothing you can do to change that/ 
However, he must know he is at the bottom of the pack in the family. Everyone in the home has to be above him. 

Some people think I am cold and heartless. I simply put human beings above dogs. 
Too many bad dogs out in society that ruin the reputation of an entire breed. (Blue dogs are not ApBT's but are labeled as such by media)

He is 1.5 years old so hasn't even matured fully yet, mentally. 
Remember, vets are not professionals of dog temperaments. They don't see what you do. 
You cannot allow your feelings to put yourself or others at risk. 

I have had a dog in the last I had to put down....if any dog or mine is aggressive at people in my presence, without a cause, it signed its own burial. 
ApBT's are too dangerous to be allowed to live with HA. 
As soon as a dog attacks a kid or passerby, guilt will hit and if you knew the dog was HA, and had the chance to prevent, it will haunt you. 

So, again, IMO you should either put him down or give to experienced dog owner to evaluate. 
Then get yourself a new pup to raise from puppyhood, so it bonds with the family. 

Also, if he is showing aggression at a little dog, keep them apart. 
Jealousy and, as I said, adjusting to the home (at new homes it takes time for them to be comfortable), may cause him to view your other dog as an intruder in time. 

Best of luck.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you Dave, much appreciated. I didn't expect to be this attached after only a month, but will do what we have to do. Your words are comfort.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Goeman, I, too, put people above dogs and will do what needs to be done. His behavior today is much the same as yesterday. Because of his recent DA behavior, I have already been keeping him separate from our other dog. 

I just can't believe things could change so quickly from concerning to good and back to even more concerning. I didn't expect to become so attached to Ruger, and can't explain how or why it happened - that has never happened with any other dog. However, I am not blind and will do what needs to be done. We can never have a dog we can't trust....but that doesn't ease the heartache.

We will go through all the motions to make sure we are not missing something important before making any final decisions.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

SM, I am so sorry to hear that things are going south for you and Ruger. Goemon can always be counted on to tell it the way it is with no coddling or putting it lightly. That's what I love about him.

As was already stated, Ruger is beginning to feel comfortable in his home. With the intruder, perhaps that has left Ruger uneasy, or perhaps he is hearing/sensing something else going on outside that you and your husband may not be aware of. I won't ask for details of the incident, but if that person was not caught/detained, and you have no outside security measures, perhaps that person has come back, or sent someone. I don't mean to scare you, but that is a very real possibility. I digress. 

The DA towards Bailey... very common among these types of dogs/mixes. The pushy attitude towards you and your husband... could be HA, or could just be him attempting to assert his dominance. A behaviorist is definitely a good step in the right direction. The vet exam would be to rule out any underlying medical issues that could be causing pain and/or discomfort. As Goemon said, the vet is not well versed in temperament or behavior, as they're trained for medical issues. It's like going to Primary Care doctor when you're having thoughts of suicide or depression, for an example. 

I'm very happy to see you're taking the appropriate steps to rule everything out before taking drastic measures, and I really hope you keep us updated on things. Best of luck in this situation, and I'll looking forward to updates, regardless of whether they're good or bad. We'll definitely be here to help you through the situation as best we can.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you, your support means a lot.

It has occurred to me that Ruger's misbehavior may be tied to lack of sufficient exercise....he needs to run, not walk. The first occurrence of growling that I can recall happened after he was neutered and only able to walk - not run - for five days. He seemed to be better until Monday, after two days in a row of walking, no running. 

Regardless, I am the only person in the home who runs and it is not always possible to run every day. If Ruger demonstrates HA or instability with two days in a row of walking, the concerns are the same.

I will definitely provide an update after our vet and behaviorist appointments. I am preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best.

Thank you, again.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Lol "it may be due to lack of exercise?"

That is the voice of the little devil on your shoulder, whispering anything it can for you to find a reason to not do what you have to.

You have a dog with serious problems that are like a ticking time bomb ready to explode..... 
There is a serious disease in the world, that doctors never warn people about. 
It is worse than Stockholme syndrome. It is called* "It Won't Happen To Me" syndrome. *

You are now in a state that professionals in certain professions warn their new recruits about. That would be a state of hesitation. 
Hesitation causes people to blindly enter a state of mind that is nearly identical to a person sitting on the dry side of a dam. 
The whole world sees that the damn is going to collapse, except the one sitting on the dry end, that doesn't want to have to do the work to climb out. 
They refuse to believe what is happening before their eyes.

I just know this: You'll never be sorry if you make the safest and easiest choice to get a new puppy that can give you what you need in a dog: a trustful and loving companion and family member, and a protector.

Okay, that is all I will say about this anymore. You have to bear the consequences of whatever choice you make, OR fail to make!! 
I will just give you one more warning, from something that happened five years ago.

True story: a person I knew had a dog with similar behavior and he ignored it. 
Warning after warning was ignored. 
Well, one day the bomb exploded. 911 got a call:
A seven year old girl was attacked without provocation by a large 85# "Gator" pit, that was shaking her by the head. Cops killed the dog when they arrived, all white and covered in blood. 
She will never again have a normal face in life. The man who owned the dog lost his wife and the step-daughter, the victim.
He was also sued and will be paying off all the surgeries she had to have, meaning he will be paying bills for the rest of his life.

Know the saddest part of the story: there was no way he could ever say, "I have no idea what could have made him snap!" 
He never said it, either. All who knew him knew he had a dangerous dog. But he did nothing about it. He should be in prison if you asked me.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Update: Ruger is still with us, for now. Based on what we have told her, behaviorist believes Ruger likely does have some aggression issues and will perform a series of all day aggression tests on Friday. We will drop him off in the early morning and will await those results before any final decisions. We suspect we already know, but feel we need to take these steps. Ruger has been a champ today, making things even harder.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Goeman, please know we have no objection to doing what is right. Aggressive, unstable dogs will never be part of our home, and we will never re-home them. 

That being said, I have no desire to end a wonderful, obedient dog's life due to my own possible misinterpretation of his behavior - especially since I know so little about the breed. 

I do believe I know how this will end, but need to take these steps. If the behaviorist does not find the aggression that she believes from our visit exists, we may or may not consider other options. I won't trust lack of discovery based on one day of testing and evaluation. However, if she does find the aggression in one day, the story will be told.

Heartache aside, we will do what is right.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

I must give you credit, first of all, for not taking the things I say as being offensive, and secondly, for knowing I have no intention of being rude. 
But most of all, I do respect you for taking this seriously.

Now I'll explain more why I take these issues so serious and would rather err on the side of caution about these matters, and why I won't hesitate to cull a HA or unstable dog.
Also, why I despise what modern people do by making the doggy park "pitbull", and have them all in packs, crediting this to the training and love they were given, to mislead people about the ApBT. 
So-called "behaviorists" cannot understand the true nature of ApBT's, AST's, or any dogs with "pitbull" in them, and why old timers almost always culled HA dogs and cur dogs (dogs afraid to fight, who use threat display, like growling and standing hair, or who can't take pain and quit). 
The dogs the old timers didn't cull, like Zebo or Pit General, were just so good in the [] that they wanted to use them to breed, to keep the gameness these dogs had. 
Most dogs that are HA, though, are cur dogs, not suitable for the reason they were originally bred---matching.

Looking up I site I wanted to show you, I found a good video that explains clearly what I am saying, from the owner of some "pitbulls," one of which was even an AmStaff, and registered. Listen to the woman, though, and she'd have sworn the dog was loving and kind, never showing signs, as your Ruger is showing.
Your dog looks a lot like an Am Staff (since he is bulky and "blue"), but most today think they are ApBT, or just plain "pitbulls." 
WEB EXCLUSIVE: Roxanne Hartrich's interview | WEEK News 25 - News, Sports, Weather - Peoria, Illinois | home
While I feel sorry for the woman's loss, I partly despise her for her ignorance, even though I know it isn't her fault, totally. 
Too much false info and fake professionals out there feeding dog lovers lies.

Now, if you listen to the video, you will hear that their two male "pitbulls" (remember, she earlier said her dog was an AmStaff). 
Their third "pitbull" was a female, fixed, but was crated. Lady had that dog put down too and is now an advocate for banning pit bulls, which her dogs were NOT. 
Neither one was "fixed." If those dogs were [] dogs, they could not be around each other!!! With or without being fixed. Fixing a true [] dog does nothing to stop its prey drive. 
Had at least one of them dogs been a true "pit bull" it would have killed the human attacking dog. 
These are NOT pack dogs. Here is a case of a pack of "8 pit bulls," and a few other packs, killing people: 
*Human aggressive pit bull packs would have been thought impossible years ago! *
All it takes for even two ApBT's that can be around while supervised is just one level of aggression and the dogs will be on each other. 
Always beware of pack trainers and the like, who think it is how you raise a dog. Some are just devil's in disguise, and given the right moment, it will show its true colors.

Hopefully now you can see why I despise unstable dogs and do not view them for "what they could be." I like to see things how they are. 
These unstable dogs are what have created most of the horrible statistics against a breed of dog I think are better than all others, in every way.

Oh, I'll share something else, although most won't find it humorous as I do:
In the past, old timers would sometimes have questionable young dogs, possibly HA, not cooperating with their owners, etc. 
Well, know how they handled it? They'd put it in a pen with an experienced [] dog to teach it manners. 
When the dog got whipped good, then it was totally submissive and saw the care the people gave it, and the attitude problem was gone. :rofl:


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Goemon, I do see why you take these situations so seriously and I would have to agree with you. In the case of the video you shared, I can't imagine the mother's pain. However, I suspect there may have been signs that went unnoticed and that perhaps she wasn't as educated about her dogs as I now believe you must be.

The more I learn about the primary dogs falling under the "pit bull" umbrella, the more I understand the responsibility required to share your home with them. There can be no tolerance.

I also see your frustration with irresponsible breeders and owners who cultivate the type of dogs reported on in the Review of California Fatal Dog Attacks.....and who likely produced Ruger.


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## HeatherSen (Dec 7, 2015)

Goemon said:


> I must give you credit, first of all, for not taking the things I say as being offensive, and secondly, for knowing I have no intention of being rude.
> But most of all, I do respect you for taking this seriously.
> 
> Now I'll explain more why I take these issues so serious and would rather err on the side of caution about these matters, and why I won't hesitate to cull a HA or unstable dog.
> ...


I watched the video with the lady and the little girl. Heartbreaking.

What do you think happened in this situation? Was it just too many dogs or do you think they were truly unstable?

Recently my Father's neighbors had their 3 pitbulls put down after they attacked and killed another of their dogs. A husky mix. The three pitbulls were a mother and her two un neutered males. It was sad to hear, but so stupid of the people to have so many dogs together alone in the first place.

There was also another death of a child here in CA a couple of months ago. A boy was left in a trailer alone with 3 pitbulls. Again a female and two young males.

I'm not sure if any of the dogs I'm speaking of were purbreds, but do you think in these situations these dogs are unstable or is it the pack thing? Are these kids just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

As the owner of a shelter "pitbull" I've been following this thread closely. My boy is the same age and looks so similar to Ruger.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

HeatherSen, there are many people on this forum much more qualified than I am to address your concerns, and I hope they jump in to assist you.

From what little I know, I have to believe all scenarios above could have been prevented. Children should never be left alone with _any _dog, not just "Pit bulls", and anyone who has done just a little bit of homework knows these dogs are likely to be DA.

"Pit Bulls" are unlike any creature I have ever been around. Ruger is loving, obedient, extremely intelligent, and eager to please in every way. However, these breeds (especially the dogs like Ruger that come with questionable backgrounds/breeding) come with MUCH responsibility. I would encourage you to learn everything you can about them. Watch the videos and read the stories so that you know what CAN happen, but don't believe your dog is automatically doomed. The media rarely reports on the good stories.

Know your dog and be able to recognize subtle changes in his demeanor. Keep him exercised and work on training/obedience - these dogs want to please you.

I also have to agree with GOEMON, there can be no tolerance for unprovoked aggression.

Has your dog exhibited aggression? If you have questions about his behavior, please begin a new thread so I may follow and learn right along with you. I suspect this one will wind down today, but have fallen in love with these dogs and want to learn everything I can about them.


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## HeatherSen (Dec 7, 2015)

Has your dog exhibited aggression? If you have questions about his behavior, please begin a new thread so I may follow and learn right along with you. I suspect this one will wind down today, but have fallen in love with these dogs and want to learn everything I can about them.[/QUOTE]

Oh no not at all. In the 4 months we've had him he's been great. I probably should have left my own dog out of my post as not to confuse anyone.

I've just been following this thread and was surprised by the video shared.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Happy that you have not experienced aggression issues in the four months you have had your dog, and I hope that you never do! Our aggression concerns surfaced in the first couple of weeks. 

Just educate yourself and know your dog. You may never have issues. Good luck!


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

The vet discovered an ear infection today, and the two behaviorists could not trigger aggression. 

One of the behaviorists has grown-up with pit bulls and has one, herself. They admit they cannot rule out aggression because they have not witnessed what we have witnessed, but have nothing but praise for him based on today's tests and evaluations.

For now, we are going to move forward with a few recommendations and close monitoring. I take the growling and barking very seriously and do not just feel like we have a clean bill of health - so to speak. This may just be an adjustment period for our household, and I may need training as much as Ruger does. Thank you to all who have shown support. I will keep you updated.


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## HeatherSen (Dec 7, 2015)

Glad to hear you had him checked out at the vet. Do you go back to see if the infection cleared up?


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Hi, HeatherSen. No, they gave him a one-time treatment and showed us what to look for. If not cleared-up by the middle of next week, we will go back.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

I am quickly coming to believe the problem with Ruger is ME. He is trying to assert his dominance and I am failing in my responses. If I can't learn to be dominant over Ruger, this will not work.

Ruger is extremely obedient, following every command - even to go to his Kennel when he is growling - so this is all very confusing. 

When I am running around the house doing chores, getting ready for work, whatever, Ruger is fine - he either follows or lays in the room where I am most active. However, when I am still (sitting at my desk or with my laptop on the couch), Ruger wants my attention. When he doesn't get what he wants, the barks and the growls begin. He doesn't do it to my husband as frequently as he does to me, but he seems more intimidated by Tim and responds more quickly to Tim's reprimands. 

Again, I am beginning to see that the problem is ME. I need to figure out how to handle him.


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

Dominance/Alpha theory was debunked decades ago. Dogs do not view humans as dogs or beings that need to be dominated. This is not how they think. Practicing out of date methods and schools of thought such as this are harmful to the dog. Please just keep working with a certified behaviourist, do not buy into this "alpha" crap. It has no basis in science.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks for the quick response, BCdogs. I am at somewhat of a loss. I want to do the right thing with Ruger but simply don't know what that is. I don't have a ton of confidence in the behaviorist who has a dog similar to Ruger, because she acts as though Ruger is better behaved than her own dog and that he is just trying to assert dominance or figure out what he can get by with. She shared tips she uses with her dog, giving us additional structure with commands - and we have been using some of them. However, Ruger quickly picks up every rule or command we ask, so that didn't really gain anything. Obedience is not his problem. Her answer to the growling was a quick, loud distraction noise, followed by a command to sit and then perhaps play with a bouncing ball. When I ask him to sit, he sits but may bark and continues to growl. That's usually when I send him to his Kennel to calm down - which works.

My husband is less intimidated by Ruger's growls and Ruger seems more responsive to his reprimands - but Ruger rarely barks at him when he is sitting down....which seems to be a trigger point for him with me. 

Tim played fetch with Ruger over the weekend, and Ruger growled when my husband asked for release of the toy. However, he did release every time and come back to him every time. 

I am not confident enough to just take a toy from a growling dog....and I think that is what I mean by the problem is me. 

In the case of fetch, I understand the growl is a little provoked - he doesn't want us to take the toy away,. What about when it is unprovoked? I don't know why he is doing that and don't know how to react. I welcome any input, BCdogs, as I just can't figure it out.


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

I'd be interested to hear if it is an aggressive growl or the dog is just vocal. When I play ball or "take away" with my dogs you would swear they are on the attack but they are playing. I growl right back at them which always escalates their volume. 

Joe


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

JTTAR, I am SO glad you asked....I just a moment ago asked my husband the same question. For the most part, I think he may just be highly vocal and I need to relax and figure out what he wants....but thought I would look like I was being foolish. 

I am not sure I believe his growls are just his way to communicate, but two incidents from today support that: 

1) When I sat down at my desk this morning, Ruger came to my side and sat. He barked at me, then laid his head in my lap. I told him "no", and he began to growl. When I stood up, he continued to growl so I sent him to his kennel - where he went without further issue;

2) I was in the kitchen starting to cook and he was by the sliding back doors (same room and a favorite place for him to lay). He looked at me and began barking - and it sounded intimidating. Out of frustration I said "what do you want". He came to sit right in front of me and began barking and growling - even with a snarl. I said "do you want to go outside" and he darted for the door. He went outside like a champ - obedient as always, and came back inside without incident. Normally, he whimpers by the door when he wants to go outside, so I didn't really think that was what he wanted.

Just now, he came to my side and started barking and growling with a snarl. I just looked at him and calmly asked "what do you want". He continued to bark and growl until I said "go get a toy" - which he did and was fine. He brought the toy back to me and sat here while I typed.

I am still not certain I am reading that right, but in the beginning I was not scared of his barks and growls until I started reading what a bad thing it is.

I can't say I've ever seen Ruger's hair raised, but the growls and snarls are pretty intimidating. Still not sure what to think, but I am going to try relaxing and seeing what he wants.


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

It doesn't sound like playing to me. I think you should find another behaviourist who doesn't base their methods on dominance theory. Any professional still using those methods needs some serious CE to catch up.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

I may not be a scientist, but do know things about dogs they have no clue about, particularly ApBT's. 

There is no question at all that some dogs are dominant and it takes a strong minded person to handle them. 
This isn't the place for a debate on it though. I can just say, as great as science may be, it is not perfect and constantly changing. Each generation exists to prove the previous one wrong. 

Now, in my own experience with game bred ApBT's, Dobermans, Presa Canarios, and even Alaskan Malautes, their is clearly a hierarchy in the home in regards to the dogs and human family. 

Strong minded dogs have to respect their masters, and he in submission to them. 
Seen many videos over the years on a show, name I forget, where dogs have dominance over the owners and control them, through many of the same things Ruger is doing. 

My own dogs, typically do not trust or like people who are weak minded and afraid of dogs. They just don't trust people who get nervous or fearful. 
They will test people and bark deeply at them. If a person laughs it off and ignores the tough act, the testing stops and they become friends. 

Having a friend who breeds Presa Canarios, he has to select the right owners, for these dogs are not for the weak of heart. 
You have to be fearless and firm with this breed, as it is strong willed. He will not sell to people with no experience with more dominant dog breeds. 

I believe the OP is right, it is HER. She must gain mastery over the dog and earn its respect, or the problems will grow worse. 
Some dogs can understand humans better than others and learn to control them through fear and intimidation. 
I've never had a problem dog in my life, but have known people who have. 
Some people cannot overcome fear in dealing with more dominant dogs.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

I would have to agree with Goemon here. It does sound like Ruger is attempting to be dominant over you, SM. 

Again, we won't debate the dominance theory here, as it has been proven that some dogs are more dominant in regards to their owner/handler. The more dominant their personality, the harder it is for a weaker person to handle them. 

It does sound to me like this is way of trying to force what he wants on you, and the barking, growling and snarling are his way of intimidating you into doing what he wants. Easily explained by him submitting and going to his kennel when you tell him to. 

This is when you bring in the stern "Aaattttt" or "Quiet" or whatever command you would like to use here. By you trying to figure out what he wants, and giving it to him, you are submitting to him, hence why he continues to growl and bark and snarl. 

If he begins this vocalization, and you correct him and get him settled, and then reward him by giving what he wants for being quiet, you will begin to be in control. Remember, you are his master/mistress (as in handler, and you control everything), so you need to put your foot down. There is a thread, marked as a sticky, called NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free). I recommend you read this thread, and begin working Ruger, mentally and physically to re-establish dominance in this case. Make him work for everything! To be let out of his kennel, to be allowed to enter a certain room, to be shown affection, to be let out, to be fed, etc. He needs to earn everything from this point forward. 

Start working on this, and although it's easier said than done, do not be afraid of him. Then, update us again after a day or so of working on this, and let us know his progress.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you, ThaLadyPit. This direction is exactly what I have been looking for....steps to begin taking control.

Will read the recommended thread and update in a few days.

THANK YOU!


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

ThaLadyPit - can't find the Sticky with NILIF...any suggestions?


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Okay, I know this is too early to be excited because I have seen a lot change in a day, but I am very pleased with today's progress. 

Ruger and I have been playing fetch with a ball, and he returns and releases with no growls - NONE (of course, there are treats). I sometimes have to say "come" more than once, and he is reluctant, but always comes. When I sat down this evening, he came to me as always, but the bark wasn't immediate. When he did bark, I firmly said "quiet" (thank you, ThaLadyPit). Ruger looked at me for a moment, but did not growl. I treated him. A few minutes later, it happened again. Same "quiet"/treat process, no growling, and no more barking, either. 

THEN, Bailey went near his toy and Ruger went to defend. I said "no" and put my house shoe clad foot (the same house shoe he tries to bite while I'm wearing) on the toy. Both dogs stopped. I was able to calmly pick up the toy with no barking or growling, separate the two dogs into different rooms, and give Ruger his toy. 

I am no where near ready to claim victory - but today has been good!


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

Fantastic news SMSewald! Baby steps, right. Sounds like Ruger and Bailey were looking for some "guidance" and you are starting to provide it for them. Keep up the good work but take a moment to pat yourself on the back for being so eager and willing to learn. I've been watching this thread and will continue to watch for your updates.:thumbsup:

Joe


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks, JTTAR. I hope today goes as well. Our morning desk/computer routine has started out with success!


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Sorry for the delayed response... I had to work yesterday evening, and am sick so I'm really struggling. I apologize for not being more specific about that thread I referred you to.

http://www.gopitbull.com/obedience-training/11559-nilif.html

This article is written by a wonderful, well respected modern day dogman, whom I'm thankful to have as a friend outside of the forum.

I'm so happy for the progress you're already seeing with Ruger, and Bailey. In all honesty, being a great handler starts with being confident in your own abilities to handle whatever situation may arise with your dogs. The rest comes from learning and being open minded, and finding what really works for your own dogs. So far, you're on the right track, and this is the type of success story we like to see.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you for the link. I have read it twice now and will probably read a few more times. We currently practice many of his recommendations, but I didn't realize I would need to initiate affection and playing more often since Ruger will not be allowed, but it makes sense. 

I found the "Extinction Burst" to be interesting. We will steady our patience and look forward to that point! 

I really do appreciate all of your help. Without this forum, I'm not sure where we would be. Sending a big, heart-felt thank you to all contributors!


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm so happy to hear that you already do most of those things on the list. Should make the rest of the transition easier. I am so excited to read about your successes in the future! 

Again, no need to thank us, yours and Ruger's progress will be thanks enough.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

It has been a couple of days and I'm happy to report things are still going well. At first, the "Quiet" with a treat worked perfectly. Just barking, never escalating to a growl. However, my timing on the treats must have been a little off because Ruger began to bark, expecting treats.

When I used "quiet" without the treats, the barks escalated to growls which, surprisingly, didn't alarm me. I used quiet again, and treated when he did what I asked. That worked for a bit, but again, there must have been a timing issue on my part because he began to look for the treats. 

This has been a process and we are still working, as Ruger continues to bark and growl. When I look at him and use "quiet" then disregard him, Ruger goes from barking to growling, to whining, to laying his head on my lap or as close to me as he an get, to laying down - all in a matter of moments. When he lays down, I praise him and love on him.

I am beginning to understand Ruger and his needs. When I was apprehensive, he voluntarily spent more time in his kennel - that's where he wanted to be. Now that I am confident and unshaken by his growling, he wants to be wherever I am. 

I believe we are on our way to getting rid of the unprovoked growling. We're not there yet, but we're making progress!


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Excellent news! Just keep working at it, and you'll both get better! I'm so proud of you both.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Just checking to see how things are going. Hope all is well.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks for checking, ThaLadyPit......all is going well. We do still have a couple of barks here and there, rarely turning to growls anymore - usually skipping straight to whining and then laying down. The barking itself is much less frequent, as well. 

Most of the misbehavior is when I sit down to the computer or my vanity to get ready for work. Playing with Ruger for a few minutes before sitting down usually seems to detour the behavior, but he does still bark now and then. When that happens, I completely disregard him. When he gets to the point of laying down and is calm for a few moments, I give him a command so I can reward him. 

Ruger seems more comfortable and has even calmed down the DA behavior toward Bailey (which had gotten a little rough for a while). I still watch them closely, keep separate play times, never leave them alone together, etc., but they seem to be doing well together. 

Barking/Growling aside, Ruger has been wonderful. I wish I could have been stronger and more confident with him in the beginning and maybe this adjustment would have been easier for him. I still don't quite understand the unprovoked barking and growling, but believe we are close to the end of it - waiting for that extinction burst! Every day just seems better. 

Even though I am no longer threatened by Ruger's barking and limited growling, I am still confused and don't fully trust him. I want to believe it is just a bad habit we had to break and that all will be well...but that remains to be seen. I adore Ruger and look forward to a time when he is completely comfortable and I can trust him.

Thank you for all of your guidance.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

BCdogs said:


> It doesn't sound like playing to me. I think you should find another behaviourist who doesn't base their methods on dominance theory. Any professional still using those methods needs some serious CE to catch up.


I could not agree more. Alpha and dominance are not the best way to make successful, long term changes in your dog. Here are some good sources to read about the theory. I also hope you find a behaviorist able to help you who understand long term goals. NILF is great, for me that is about manners and not dominance. My dog is very vocal, people think he is growling all the time and he isn't. Not saying that's what happened here and what you described is disconcerting, but not being there it is really hard to offer advice. Sorry you are going through this.

Lists the studies and peer reviewed data debunking dominance theories:
http://avsabonline.org/uploads/position_statements/Dominance_Position_Statement_download-10-3-14.pdf

other links and statements
http://4pawsu.com/dominancemyth.pdf
Why Won't Dominance Die? | Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors
http://4pawsu.com/DebunkingDomMyth.pdf 
http://4pawsu.com/dominancestatement.pdf
https://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance/
https://apdt.com/about/position-statements/dominance/


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you, Ames. I will check out each of the links you have attached - I love to be educated. 

Ruger is an incredible dog who exhibits loyalty and obedience like no dogs before him in my world. I will do whatever I can to make this work!


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

SMSewald said:


> Thank you, Ames. I will check out each of the links you have attached - I love to be educated.
> 
> Ruger is an incredible dog who exhibits loyalty and obedience like no dogs before him in my world. I will do whatever I can to make this work!


That is awesome to hear! he is lucky to have you for sure!


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you, Ames


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

So happy to hear of your progress SM! I'm thrilled for you and Ruger and his future in your pack.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

We have success! *The growling has ended!!!* I wanted to post last week, but didn't want to act too soon. Ruger finally seems completely comfortable and at home. We have been spending more quality quiet time sitting on the floor together, and he seems more balanced in every way. I'm so glad we got through this. Thanks to everyone who contributed such solid information. For a while, I thought this wouldn't work and we couldn't re-home an aggressive dog. Things could have turned out much differently without all of you. But now, we have the dog I have always wanted but never knew existed. THANK YOU!


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Ah! I've been impatiently awaiting an update from you. I'm so happy for you! Give Ruger a scratch behind the ear for me, please. No thanks needed, as that is what this forum is really about, helping others get through the hardships and getting a better understanding of these dogs.


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks so much!


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

Fantastic news. Thanks for the positive update SMSewald!

Joe


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## DickyT (Jan 29, 2014)

Very happy to see this outcome! I had my concerns at the beginning, but am glad it worked out!

Good boy Ruger!


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## dogma (Aug 3, 2015)

So very happy to hear this! Good for Ruger and good for you, for seeking informed advice. Ruger is a lucky dog!


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## SMSewald (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks, everyone!


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