# Would this be an APBT or an Ambully?



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Hey everyone. My friend said she's getting an ADBA registered puppy. She's going all the way to texas to pick it up and the puppy is coming from Louisiana. Anyhow.... I asked about the bloodlines and she said 100% Razors Edge... I said hmm... then it would be an American Bully. She said "no it's not short and wide" I told her it didn't matter what the dog looked like, that RE was a Bully line now. Is there ever a case that they are APBT? How would you know? Or would you consider them just to be Ambully and they need to be reg with the ABKC.

ETA supposed to have a 6 gen ped


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I guess it could be called a pit bull not am bully and def not the American pit bull terrier. Bernie is a razors edge cross with Nevada blood but I don't think I can consider him an American Bully because he doesn't fit the standard but he is not an Apbt either so he is just a pit bull. My brother in laws dog is ABDA reg but he looks like an apbt dog that drank some of the same juice the Ninja turtles did to mutate lol He has to have 24 inch head at least because his neck is 23 and he weighs 84 pounds.


----------



## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

It would still be an ambully in my opinion, whats called a classic bully. Do not be ashamed of what you have, having a bully is not the worst thing in the world i promise. blood tells lots of stories and there are things called throwbacks which produces a more apbt featured dog (standard wise). Also, it could be from orginal r.e. lineage, which is not as bully and most people tend to see bullies as. A more functional dog, not to say same size as an apbt, heavier and more muscle, just not overweight and sloppy. I myself have a classic bully, 100% razors edge, that most would not know the difference from a 100% apbt. Not that most know the difference b/t a bully and apbt in the first place. Anywho, that's my 2 cents. 
Ex. Pike 100% r.e.








Purple rose of ciaro 100% r.e. (bullier version)


----------



## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

it depends on what dogs its off of! there are apbt razors edge and there are American Stafford shire terrier razors edge and there are out and out bullies and there are pitter staff razors edge you really can't wrap all razors edge into one little package like that. find out what dogs its off of look at the ped them make your call.


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I personally base it off the pedigree itself. RE wasn't always bully and not all RE dogs are of a mix which is what separates the Bully from APBT IMO.


----------



## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

then it would be considered a classic bully correct ? this is what i dont understand, if someone has a classic bully off the same lines as a 90lb freak, they get to call their dog a apbt, while if the other person says the same thing they get flamed. Doesnt make any sense to me, (not trying to start anything holly/matt you know i love yall) i just dont understand how people conclude their view on the subj. Ex. Pike is ~ 60 lbs i would guess now, to the max hes going to be (almost an old man, getting close to 3 y/o!). Yet his dad, and most in lineage (within last 4 gen) are larger dogs (70-80lbs easily) really bully dogs. Now past 4 gen you have alot of throwin knuckles, sadey paddinton, wildside, ruffian, ect ect. the orginal lines of the dogs. How would you determine his "breed specific name" (holly doesnt need to know my ped she set it up for me on apbt online hehe)  just curious, as i dont know it all, just like to give my opinions/views as we all do. --shane


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

IMO a classic bully is a bully that is more of an Amstaff figure with out being over done. But still a mix bred dog.Anything that is APBT/Amstaff is not a bully IMO no matter how it looks. However the whole bully debate will come down to matter of opinion. Other wise every big a$$ gaff dog would be a bully 

An American Bully *IMO* is a dog of APBT/Amstaff and other breed mixing. If mixing of other breeds has not occurred it is just an out of standard dog, if overdone, or its just a big PitterStaff


----------



## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

lol, okie i see where your going that's a great valid point. thanks for clearing that up. i guess like you said, its all a matter of opinion for each individual person. there is no guideline that we can go by i guess, due to the speculations (spelling?) behind the breed as a whole. Either way, i love my boy!!!!


----------



## PrairieMoonPits (Dec 16, 2009)

I have a male who's mom was very old APBT RE lines and was registered with ADBA and got a single reg with UKC. It is possible just depeneds what dogs were used in the pedigree.


----------



## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

pikes only reg. with adba as well. 7 gen ped lol


----------



## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

This is exactly what I was trying to get explained in the other thread. And now I understand, there are NO set rules, just opinions. And seems everyone has different ones. I guess now I'll just accept it as that and sit back and wonder if one day this breed will ever come together as a whole unit.


----------



## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

coppermare said:


> This is exactly what I was trying to get explained in the other thread. And now I understand, there are NO set rules, just opinions. And seems everyone has different ones. I guess now I'll just accept it as that and sit back and wonder if one day this breed will ever come together as a whole unit.


never. it has to many variables and if people wold look at the whole and not get caught up in the little parts maybe it would but people are set on tunnel vision.


----------



## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

You don't think that sooner or later public opinion will win out? In other words majority rule? People will like a certain "look" or certain dogs types will excell in things and that will begin the standard of what will be the future?


----------



## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

coppermare said:


> You don't think that sooner or later public opinion will win out? In other words majority rule? People will like a certain "look" or certain dogs types will excell in things and that will begin the standard of what will be the future?


there is already a standard the problem comes in were people breed out of standard and when people breed in other breeds. the adba allows you to breed akc and ukc amstaff and will register the litter American pit bull terrier so that in it self leaves it open for alot of debate. personally i like the look of a well bred pitter staff., i don't know i am one of those people who like game lines and show lines and bullies so your not gonna get to much prejudiced from me. the doga are all good for differnt reasons. and i can see value in all of them.


----------



## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

BLUE PIT BULL MAN said:


> there is already a standard the problem comes in were people breed out of standard and when people breed in other breeds. the adba allows you to breed akc and ukc amstaff and will register the litter American pit bull terrier so that in it self leaves it open for alot of debate. personally i like the look of a well bred pitter staff., i don't know i am one of those people who like game lines and show lines and bullies so your not gonna get to much prejudiced from me. the doga are all good for differnt reasons. and i can see value in all of them.


Well, I've decided what look I like, but I have no idea what it's called.


----------



## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

that's where edjumakation begins


----------



## BLUE PIT BULL MAN (May 22, 2009)

coppermare said:


> Well, I've decided what look I like, but I have no idea what it's called.


got a pic of the look you like?


----------



## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

yea post em up that way we can have an idea of what you like/lookin for.


----------



## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

mattytang's evil
onejasrod's blue female
LionsGate's Carbon


----------



## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Lionsgate is definitely bully.But in my opinion Lionsgate has some of the best looking bullies


----------



## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

Ok, so it's bullies I like........BUT, I don't like the short legged really wide (fat) ones. The ones that look like they are so wide they are bow legged or something and heads so big there is no definition to them. And I don't like the narrow headed, rail thin look like they need some groceries game looking ones. Not to offend anyone now, this is nothing but MY PERSONAL OPINIONS AND LIKES. So, tell me now what is it I'm looking for? I really do need or want to know what round hole this square peg fits in? LOL said with the I'm the dummy in the corner look....


----------



## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

So my friend has decided not to buy said puppy. The guy was holding out on producing the papers up front on the spot. He said he'd have to get them to her later. Yeah I told her run and don't look back! lol Typical story I've heard several times on this forum about never getting papers on a pup.

Well other than that... I'm still confused. lol

Coppermare. It sounds like you might like an American Staffordshire Terrier or a show bred UKC American Pit Bull Terrier. They are generally the middle ground dogs. Not too bulky, not too skinny... depending on the breeder of course.


----------



## Mrs. BossDawgBullies (Jul 7, 2010)

dixieland said:


> Lionsgate is definitely bully.But in my opinion Lionsgate has some of the best looking bullies


Actually...Lionsgate specializes in XL APBT's. They have several dogs with Juan Gotty in their peds & a couple that have WGC' lines & RE mixed in but they state on their home page that they breed XL American Pitbull Terriers.

I like ALL APBT's but choose to own Am Bullies.... I have "classic" Am Bullies, I have "bully" Am Bullies, I have "pocket" Am Bullies. It just depends on what STYLE you like.


----------



## cEElint (Oct 6, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> IMO a classic bully is a bully that is more of an Amstaff figure with out being over done. But still a mix bred dog.Anything that is APBT/Amstaff is not a bully IMO no matter how it looks. However the whole bully debate will come down to matter of opinion. Other wise every big a$$ gaff dog would be a bully
> 
> An American Bully *IMO* is a dog of APBT/Amstaff and other breed mixing. If mixing of other breeds has not occurred it is just an out of standard dog, if overdone, or its just a big PitterStaff


i consider Dre a classic bully, he's RE/Gaff


----------



## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Mrs. BossDawgBullies said:


> Actually...Lionsgate specializes in XL APBT's. They have several dogs with Juan Gotty in their peds & a couple that have WGC' lines & RE mixed in but they state on their home page that they breed XL American Pitbull Terriers.
> 
> I like ALL APBT's but choose to own Am Bullies.... I have "classic" Am Bullies, I have "bully" Am Bullies, I have "pocket" Am Bullies. It just depends on what STYLE you like.


It doesn't matter what they say on their page.If a dog is over 100 lbs it's not an apbt.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them having bullies.I like some the xl bullies.But that's just what they are,bullies.
It doesn't matter because this topic has been talked to death and that's not what this thread is about.


----------



## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

Who is she getting the dog from in LA?
I live in LA, and I've got to tell you, there are BYB's out here like you wouldn't believe. I hear so much BS about RE and Gotti around here, people asking me Argos' bloodline, and when I reply that I am unsure as I haven't gotten a pedigree yet, theyre like "whats that?
Also, people in this part of the state (Southeastern) are for the most part completely ignorant to the difference between bullies and pits. I know I was until I came here, and I see both types of dog everywhere.
There are exceptions, as everywhere, and I am sure that there are reputable kennels in Louisiana, Im just telling you what I've personally experienced.
I got my dog from a BYB, before I knew the dangers...I've been lucky so far, he is ADBA papered and is in good health, his temperament is great so far also.

[EDIT]: I was overzealous with my posting, just read that your friend decided against it. That was probably a good decision. Louisiana is a breeding ground for ignorance. Steer clear.
Not meant to offend anyone. I've lived here all my life and still can't get over the things I see people do.


----------



## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

i got my pup from byb also, i think the main difference is the byb bought the dogs off a rep. breeder and then turned around to breed them. Doesnt make them any less of a byb, i just got lucky that i got good dogs that were bred from a byb that didnt know wtf she was doing to start with haha  He might not be 100% as far as some things go, but i think i lucked out with the luck of the draw. He is definatly bully by nature, as far as "drive" goes, but he's one sweet, caring, loving dog. So heres my point, it's good that we're all here to learn. To strive to do better on caring, learning, and protecting our loved ones. One thing you have to learn from a byb is that they learn how to talk to make themselves look good, make their stock look good, (ie. ***PR*** gotti/r.e./butthead/ gaff, yada yada) yet if you are educated before you buy/go to this breeder, you will catch these "sales pitches" time they say them. This will in turn, let you see what the breeder is about. weither they really know their ish or their just talking to talk so they will get your money. I do think the breeder that i got pike from was honestly in it for the dogs, but i do think she was very uneducated, and nieve about what she was selling. When i got pike, i was told he was half r.e. half gotti. Yet he doesnt have a smidge of gotti in his ped. Just something to think about, we all make mistakes, we just have to learn from them. I got totally FLAMED when i logged on this site and made the mistake of calling pike a apbt. And it infuriated me when people were calling my dog something besides what i had known him as in the first place. Yet it was my own ignorace, that led me to beleive he was something he wasnt. It doesnt make me love pike any less, or in turn would make me steer from purchasing him again, but it does lead me to believe that we need to do research on things before we run into them. I saw him as a "pitbull", yet he could have infact been a cane corso without me knowing the difference. Make any sense? hope i didnt steer from topic. ---shane

P.s. and to coopermare --- i think what your looking for is a classic bully. which is what i talked about before, it's the original look of the american bully, before the features were exxagerated. You'll want to look for old school lines of gaff, razors edge, york, And maybe like shes got heart said, a american staffordshire terrier (which is basically a show apbt that has been bred for show (size, stature, temperment) instead of dog aggression/gamess for centuries to try to cull those features out.... Do not make the mistake of thinking that a AST cannot be game/dog aggressive.


----------



## dixie (Apr 11, 2009)

WE HAVE A OLD SCHOOL EDGE GURL WHO IS NOT BULLY TO TODAYS STANDARDS(VERY HAPPY ABOUT THAT)SHE IS MORE AMSTAFF AND LARGE PITBULL LOOKING


----------



## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

Is your caps lock stuck ?


----------



## SARGEnNIKITA (Jan 3, 2010)

My boy is old school RE APBT traced back to original RE... But RE is hard to find in a true APBT now... They r out there but tough to find... The lines got crossed outside the breed way to much to make heads or tales of it now without lineage... He's out of standard by like twenty five pounds but very proper otherwise... I had to shave bout ten pounds off of him... Course he's not even two yet so who freaking knows where his size will end up...


----------



## Mrs. BossDawgBullies (Jul 7, 2010)

dixieland said:


> It doesn't matter what they say on their page.If a dog is over 100 lbs it's not an apbt.
> I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them having bullies.I like some the xl bullies.But that's just what they are,bullies.
> It doesn't matter because this topic has been talked to death and that's not what this thread is about.


I wasn't trying to start a bully topic... all I was saying is "If she likes the Lionsgate dogs... she doesn't like bullies... very rarely will u find an actual Am Bully that is over 100 lbs and as tall as Lionsgates dogs.


----------



## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Mrs. BossDawgBullies said:


> I wasn't trying to start a bully topic... all I was saying is "If she likes the Lionsgate dogs... she doesn't like bullies... very rarely will u find an actual Am Bully that is over 100 lbs and as tall as Lionsgates dogs.


So are you trying to make the arguement that because it's over 100lbs and tall that thats what makes it an apbt and not a bully?
They are not apbt's.They are what is known as xxl bullies.Apbt's should generally not be over 50-60 lbs.Of course sometimes you get some who are more then that.But not no 120 lbs.
Look at their site.They have a female that weighs 90 plus pounds.They have a 16 week old male puppy that already weighs 50 plus pounds.At 16 weeks he already weighs what a full grown adult should weigh.Not to mention their bloodlines.They are bully lines.
The point I was trying to make is that just because someone says that's what they have,doesn't always make it so.


----------



## Mrs. BossDawgBullies (Jul 7, 2010)

dixieland said:


> So are you trying to make the arguement that because it's over 100lbs and tall that thats what makes it an apbt and not a bully?
> They are not apbt's.They are what is known as xxl bullies.Apbt's should generally not be over 50-60 lbs.Of course sometimes you get some who are more then that.But not no 120 lbs.
> Look at their site.They have a female that weighs 90 plus pounds.They have a 16 week old male puppy that already weighs 50 plus pounds.At 16 weeks he already weighs what a full grown adult should weigh.Not to mention their bloodlines.They are bully lines.
> The point I was trying to make is that just because someone says that's what they have,doesn't always make it so.


LOL so there can be XXL Bullies but not XXL APBT's? Hummmmm......

And SOME of the dogs in SOME of their lines are Am. Bullies...


----------



## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Mrs. BossDawgBullies said:


> LOL so there can be XXL Bullies but not XXL APBT's? Hummmmm......
> 
> And SOME of the dogs in SOME of their lines are Am. Bullies...


Ummm Hmmm,yes there can be.You're really not making a good argument for your case hun.To say that SOME of the dogs in SOME of the lines are Am Bully really is hurting your point,not proving it.But that really is a whole nother discussion.
Back to xxl bullies vs xxl apbt's (which really there is no such thing).It's called a standard.The Am Bullies have different classes,each having their own standard.The apbt's do not have different classes.Thus they do not have an xxl class.
I could really go into it more,but I think you would just argue it more and not listen.
Please read and research about the different bloodlines and what not to gain some knowledge about these two awesome breeds.I mean ya love em,you might as well learn em!


----------



## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Mrs. BossDawgBullies said:


> LOL so there can be XXL Bullies but not XXL APBT's? Hummmmm......
> 
> And SOME of the dogs in SOME of their lines are Am. Bullies...


Uh yeah.. Bullies come in different class sizes.. APBTSs do not. Poodles come in different class sizes. Some breeds have class sizes some do not.

If your going to call your self as an American Bully Breeder you would want to research and know the breed you are breeding as well as the breeds it developed from.


----------



## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> Uh yeah.. Bullies come in different class sizes.. APBTSs do not. Poodles come in different class sizes. Some breeds have class sizes some do not.
> 
> If your going to call your self as an American Bully Breeder you would want to research and know the breed you are breeding as well as the breeds it developed from.


:goodpost: that's what I was trying to say


----------



## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

NU UH!!!!


----------



## Bethb2007 (Jul 5, 2009)

We used to call them bandogs. :'). Way before the bullies came on the scene there were these huge "pit bulls". Many were 23 inches tall and close to 100 pounds. There is always someone out there thinking bigger is better. Some like them short and thick, and some just like em bigger..... I don't, but......


----------

