# Curious..



## titan42 (Aug 31, 2009)

So in the mail today I got back Titans 7 generation pedigree as well as pedigree analysis from the ADBA as well as his little show card and all that jazz.

So anywho, I was just browsing through his pedigree thinking that what I really had rather than an APBT was an Ambully or something along those lines since he was advertised as a Razors Edge dog. Now my wife got this pup for me for a surprise since my other Pit died of old age. Now my wife informed me that the breeder she got the pup from stated he was "old school Razors Edge". Now, forgive me I dont much care about the whole Ambully vs. APBT thing so much as if the dog is a good dog or not.

After reading the pedigree however the breeder wasn't lying when stating the dog was in fact old school razors edge as the razors edge introduced into the pedigree came from Throwin Knuckles, Inna Rage and included Sadeys paddington as well..and pretty much was bred from just those dogs and their offspring to get the current result. Now all of this is on Titans mothers side. His father I dont really know much about however I found it interesting that on the Anaylsis it stated the prominent bloodlines as Larum, Colby, Razors Edge and Gaff..it also mentions some Tonkawa,Candy,Kimmar, Noble and Kar-Ron as well though I don't know much about the last ones.

My question is though, after reading all the information and assessing it I'm thinking what I really have is more an APBT/Amstaff cross rather than am Ambully and I was curious what thoughts everyone else had on the subject.

Oh yeah and since I dont have the pedigree with me if anyone is curious I guess you could attempt to look up the sire and dam of my pup
Sire:N.S.B's Blue Captain Hook

Dam:La Porte's the Blue Nahlia


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

It always makes me wonder when ppl say old RE or old Watchdog etc.. These dogs were bred with other breeds and paper hung and you have no true idea of what is what. The old stock would be over 18 years old right? So if you have "old" blood in the first few gens that would not seem right.

Do you have the 2nd and 3 gen of dogs you could post? the sire and dam I could not find on peds online that will tell you allot of what is really in the back ground of the dogs.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

Funny, I found both of those names being mated but not exactly.

Pedigree: Pirate X Nahla Litter

Did you get it from OPP's kennel?


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

*performanceknls *: When people say "old school" they are referring not to dogs themselves but the state of the line. "Old school" is before the line was ruined by bully breeders & the line still conformed to pre-bully standards. For example, the Watchdog dogs I used to have were "old school" b/c they conformed to the breeding standards of CC. They weren't Bullies & didn't have any Bully blood in them. The "old school" blood was the stuff that is still in the original state it was intended to be by the founder, while the "new school" stuff has been taken out of the founder's hands & bullied out by other breeders & bred away from the originator's intent for the line.

Does that make sense??


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

It makes sense and I know what you are sayin, but my point is you see ppl say old school but yet they were dogs bred in the 5-10 years. With all the paper hanging I see bully looking dogs that they refer to as old school but it is just denying what is really in the ped. I do know there is some truly old stuff before it was ruined but many times it is just thrown around to make the dogs seem less bully.

That is why I would like to find the ped so you can really see what is behind the dogs.


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## titan42 (Aug 31, 2009)

Actually yes I think they did come from OPP as for the other dogs in the ped gimme a minute I just got off my shift and I'll have to go get the pedigree to find the other names.


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## titan42 (Aug 31, 2009)

The Sire and Dam of My pups sire is Penny's Blue Kaos and SJFs Lil-Bit of Vega

the sire and dam of the dam of my pup is SJFs causin a ruckus and SJFs Blue Cotton Candy

Man I love this place, so much information and such nice people.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

It's all in the link I posted...from what it looks like that is the right Ped list. 

If you confirm that for me, I'll do a little research more on the lines but from what I can tell thus far, you dog is a Bully or PitterStaff. But I'll have to dig on the sire side more because the RE on the bitches side is very amstaff/bully.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

ABK, in response to your post..... Bully Breeders didn't "ruin" Razors Edge. The creator, Dave Wilson, himself, went where he wanted to with that line.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

> My question is though, after reading all the information and assessing it I'm thinking what I really have is more an APBT/Amstaff cross rather than am Ambully and I was curious what thoughts everyone else had on the subject.


Yeah it looks though your little one is a bit scattered lined on the Sire's side. The consistency in the sire (from looking at OPP's website) is a little off so I can't predict too much. But looks like it'll be a classic bully, I haven't seen a picture of your dog (if you posted one I'm at work and can't see pictures due to Websense). But yeah that's what I would say.


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## titan42 (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks you guys for all your input, I'll have to upload some pictures of the little rascal as soon as the wife gets home with her camera..well I really shouldn't say little, he's almost as tall and big as his older sister angel


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## titan42 (Aug 31, 2009)

*photo*

here's a picture of Titans sire Pirate his dam Nahlia and the last is his pic of him sleepin on his favorite towel that he confiscated from me..I'll put some more up later tonight.


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

*performanceknls: *I see what you're saying. You think "old school" may refer to older dogs being up closer in the ped. And this certainly can be true. But sometimes I have found also that people will use the term "old school" if the dog in question LOOKS like the foundation dogs of the line. A good example are Titan's sire & dam. While they are RE, they don't look like those short squatty EB looking dogs you see today. They look like the old style RE show dogs of the past. Maybe this is what he meant when he said "old school". 

*reddoggy:* If you don't think the RE line was ruined, you are entitled to your opinion.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

ABK said:


> It went from UKC CH & GR CH show dogs


And those are the "oldschool" RE dogs that where the APBT/AM Staff crosses rather than the obvious mixing you see later in the line.


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

Maile has all of those RE dogs in her line...and yes theyre the 'old school style', but most of their offspring now produces the current style. So unless you have a dog that has consistently breen bred Knuckles or, should I say the offspring has stayed true to the Knuckles type RE dogs, then you'd still have the current AmBully.

And theyre beautiful!!! No matter what!!!


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

I agree with ABK.

I wouldn't consider your dogs to be as you say from the old school line unless the foundation stock was closer to the front of the pedigree.

I also don't consider all the foundation stock though labeled as RE to be actual RE line dogs, since some were the foundation and not the actual line itself...
Meaning if I buy dog A and dog B and base my line on them, just because I put my name in front on their papers it doesn't make them from "my line". People seem to confuse the two all the time so I thought I'd add that into the discussion.


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

Patch-O-Pits said:


> I wouldn't consider your dogs to be as you say from the old school line unless the foundation stock was closer to the front of the pedigree.
> 
> I also don't consider all the foundation stock though labeled as RE to be actual RE line dogs, since some were the foundation and not the actual line itself...
> Meaning if I buy dog A and dog B and base my line on them, just because I put my name in front on their papers it doesn't make them from "my line". People seem to confuse the two all the time so I thought I'd add that into the discussion.


I agree with that. Just because the RE is on the front of the name, the dog isnt BRED RE, so its not a TRUE RE dog.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

> I have found also that people will use the term "old school" if the dog in question LOOKS like the foundation dogs of the line.


Like ABK said, this is what I think of when I hear old school. I think of the original dogs. Old school Watchdog were catch weight dogs for the most part. They were heavier dogs but not bullys. Todays Watchdogs are no where near what the line started as.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

that brings up an idea, maybe we can have a thread that shows what the old school stuff looked like because today ppl say old school but it is really a bully. Maybe some noobs do not know what they use to look like and a thread with all the old stuff might prove useful.


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> that brings up an idea, maybe we can have a thread that shows what the old school stuff looked like because today ppl say old school but it is really a bully. Maybe some noobs do not know what they use to look like and a thread with all the old stuff might prove useful.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::clap::clap::clap:

Good idea.

Maybe even a post that shows ALL kinds of these dogs.
Like, Old school, Am Staff, APBT, Bullies (the varieties), all of them as close to the standards as possible.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

Well Lisa, you're a mod...Create a Sticky! I love showing old Camelots and new Camelots because they don't look anything alike!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

ha! ok I guess since I suggested it I can put up a thread but I do not have any pictures so you all will have to contribute to the thread.


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

That is a great idea. 

I have some old WD pics. I'm sure others have the ones I do not.


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> ha! ok I guess since I suggested it I can put up a thread but I do not have any pictures so you all will have to contribute to the thread.


As long as theres no copyright on em, if theyre online, theyre free game! :woof:


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