# criminal spay/nueter



## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I've been doing some thinking over the last 7 months and I think I have found a positive way to improve our country/world. It will not only benefit our crime rate, global warming, but our economy as well. I thought I was original with the idea, but after doing a little research last night there was a bill in PA that tried to get it passed... the latest date is 1930 for activity on this idea. PA didn't just try to target criminals though, they were pushing for incompetent people as well. I am not looking to push that issue. At that point in time we as a country didn't have the population that we do today, and if something isn't stopped now our whole nation will be a toxic suburb at the least. All convicted felons should be spayed(not a complete hysterectomy!!! just the tubes tied)/neutered (not castration!!! just a vasectomy). I would include a grandfather clause for such people prior to it being passed to be exempt. As well as an exemptions from the state surgeon stating that an individual would not survive the procedure. The procedure will not come out of tax payers dollars because it will be included in their court costs and will be added to their medical records indicating the reason for the procedure.

The effects of the act would not be felt for 1 or 2 generations. I would like to find some hard evidence that the same types of crimes committed by parents are committed by their offspring. I think it could be genetic and if we keep reproducing at this rate (2 children per house hold is the average) it only spells for disaster to come a muck in our Home Land. What kind of stability and morals can criminals provide for our future generations?

It will greatly reduce the crime rate almost immediately as a result, free up jail cells. After 1 or 2 generations we won't need new jails... in fact we may have a surplus of empty buildings! How many people would actually go through with robbing that gas station if they knew they wouldn't ever be able to hold a part of them in their arms for the first time? This idea is based off of the reduction of the reproduction of criminals. It would give our police officers time to be on the streets and know the community! They would have less concerns for being killed in the line of duty if it was a maintenance check up on past felons. No matter how much YOU change your life around it doesn't mean that your neighbor will! If our police officers have more time to keep tabs on former criminals it will provide new links to new "trouble" in the air.

I am sure you can grasp the concept of global warming... less of a population means more trees(less development of our natural resources), less garbage to burn/bury, less vehicles on the roads burning gas(helps the commute time for us law abiding citizens as well), and less people using irresponsible ways of disposing of hazardous materials.

Now for the kicker... Our economy. Tax payers will NOT have to pay for the criminals surgery... we pay enough to provide criminals with food,shelter, and clothing that they did not work to get let alone deserve. That money due over the next 1-2 generations will be greatly reduced because the crime rate will go down. Felons already stand much more difficulty acquiring employment within a company because of their criminal records than a law abiding citizen. We support them now by welfare, food stamps, and section 8 to name a few. With the reduction of the reproduction of these people we will also, over time see a drastic drop in need for funds. Giving us the opportunity to pay back some of our country's debt and save the disappearing social security for our elderly and disabled. With the surplus of funds available at this point will will be able to increase minimum wage and decrease taxes as well as see prices go down in our every day necessities (milk and gasoline are a few).

Please don't steal my idea, but help me with coming to terms for both sides of the fence with a realistic debate as well as how to pursue getting this recognized. I think if it was country wide it would save money and resources.


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## litter mates (Jun 5, 2007)

i don't know. now are we just going for rapist or all criminals??? if it's just rapist then yes or all criminals then i'm not sure!!!! i will take the poll after that question is answered!!


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

litter mates said:


> i don't know. now are we just going for rapist or all criminals??? if it's just rapist then yes or all criminals then i'm not sure!!!! i will take the poll after that question is answered!!


I'm talking felonies period. if it wasn't a SERIOUS crime it would be called a misdemeanor


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

good luck with that!!!!! I say yes with convicted rapist and murderers


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## YJSONLY (Oct 11, 2006)

Well I agree with you but disagree with you at the same time.... I had a buddy who was 18 who was seeing a girl that was 15 her mom and dad new this and let him stay in the same room...needless to say knocked her up... well some things happened with her mom and she had to go to court and custody of the 15 year old came up with a baby? well who is the daddy a 18 and he almost got thrown in prison..... yes he was :hammer: but i don't see how in this case he deserved it. when the mom and dad was OK with it and the state who was pursuing it. the 15 told the judge it wasn't rape i knew what i was doing. he got off on 1 year probation. 

i think either way it is a catch 22 like the death penalty. I do agree with it but there are those cases that can get iffy.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Well I have given this some thought and I see lots of loop holes that would need carefull consideration before such a drastic measure could be taken. First off you have to be 100% positive that the person that is tried is the reall criminal. What about those that are from the wrong side of the tracks per say. Sometimes cops like to pick on these people. I know I have been down that road just because I have that last name doesn't mean I act like them. What about the rich folk that buy their way out. I really don't think casteration is a just punishment for robbery. Rape then yes I say do it. Murder well I really think the death penality should be enforce in all the states and if you are 100% sure that the person you say did the crime then lets get rid of them. I do think that if you have committed a crime and you have been found guilty then you should have to contribute something good back to society. I think that all new drug testing should be done on these men and women. I also think that they should not be allowed to get a college education or law degrees because we found them guilty of a crime. I think that they should have to work and work hard. We could have sent a bunch of the less mencing criminals to the Katrina clean up. It wouldn't have cost us anymore and maybe 2 1/2 yrs after that devastation the city would have some semblance to being repaired. 
There are more angles that need to be closly looked at before such drastic measure are taken but I do agree we need to do something to get crime rate down.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

I can see some positives to this, but I am totally against it.

I know a man who's father is a persistant felony offender. The son is now a very successful self-made man. He went to college on a baseball scholarship, played for a AAA League team, and is now a baseball coach for a local school. A very popular, well-loved baseball coach. He is a well respected member of this society, and without him, I don't think this town or the kids playing for him on that team would be the same. It would be a shame if his father had been castrated in prison.

My own father has a shady past. I have absolutely nothing to do with him, I don't even have his last name. I am currently in college to become a teacher. Hopefully, I will be able to change some young lives for the better. Joe and I took in his neice for two years after her father died. The mother had some real issues after Joe's brother died. We were the only stable environment that child had at the time. She loves me more than anything and calls me "Mommy Betty." She wanted to just call me Mommy, but I didn't want to confuse her more than she already was and knew that someday she would return to her mom and I didn't want to break their bond. I think she would probably say she's glad my father and mother were able to conceive me.

I really don't think this is the way to go as a society. It's BSL for people.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I know that there are going to be loopholes... it's a tough decision either way. Would you help me by throwing some at me?

I don't look at it as BSL persay because they would have to be convicted. If they passed the same law across the board for animals that harm another living creature I wouldn't have a problem with that at all because it would force us creature owners to be alot more responsible. 

We wouldn't be taking away anyones "rights" because it would be the individuals personal decision to make that choice. It's not really a consequence for a felon to not be able to own a firearm because they are easy to come by on the streets, nor vote because most of american doesn't anyway! It would be something to remind them everyday to obey the law!

Tubes being tied vasectomies are reversable these days so i don't see that if a person is wrongfully committed it should be a huge problem because of the technology we posses today. The down time for both surgeries are out patient procedures followed by slight discomfort and no heavy lifting for 2 weeks post surgery. 

I know there wouldn't be alot of us on this planet if this took into affect long ago, but i see alot more pros for it in this day in age than it was in the 30s. We are in a crisis both financially and globally right now and i see that would be the quickest most efficient solution.

As for the 18 year old messing with a 15 year old... if he's convicted then he committed the crime. I understand you don't look at it as serious, but what has that situation left the 15 year old little girl? No education and to raise a bastard child. What is stopping ol home boy from doing that to another 15 year old girl when he's 20,30,40,or 50? When you turn 18 you are adult thus responsible for your own decisions.


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

:goodpost: a 18 yr old & a 15 yr old come on now there is something wrong with that girls parents and the 18 yr old I know a guy that got convicted for stat rape with a 17 yr old that said she was 18 he was 21 spent a few yrs in prison he cards women now . So yes there would be some loop holes but not a bad idea


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## jboo101907 (Dec 22, 2007)

I think that is a really good idea. Originally I wasn't sure but now I love it!


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Hell with sterilization. I say let victims and their family have the right to avenge their attacker. If it wasn't for the fear of being prosecuted themselves, we would have many less victims. Most criminals know that the court system protects them from retribution by the victim and that jail will be an easier sentence. The system protects the criminal and that is BS. What the hell does the system do to protect the victim? Humane consequences after the fact are not good enough.


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

I'm glad something liket his has never been passed or i would not be here today, my father is a convicted fellon..mutliple times. I cant say i really know the man considering that i have chosen not to be around him. you can make the argument that the enviroment i was born into was stronger than my "genetics" but thats a whole nother story. i dont agree with your propositon for many differnt reasons. i do agree with you buzz. nice post man


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

buzhunter said:


> Hell with sterilization. I say let victims and their family have the right to avenge their attacker. If it wasn't for the fear of being prosecuted themselves, we would have many less victims. Most criminals know that the court system protects them from retribution by the victim and that jail will be an easier sentence. The system protects the criminal and that is BS. What the hell does the system do to protect the victim? Humane consequences after the fact are not good enough.


I'm not tossing this idea around in my head for vengence sake...it would be very satisfying to say the least! My reasons are because we need to make cut backs both financially and for our earth. It would be the greatest contribution to YOUR children if they could afford to have their own text books to take home with their homework... I think it is a small sacrifice for a much greater cause. We dump way too much money into criminals...it's time to start investing into ourselves. You know what I'm saying?


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

wheezie said:


> I'm glad something liket his has never been passed or i would not be here today, my father is a convicted fellon..mutliple times. I cant say i really know the man considering that i have chosen not to be around him. you can make the argument that the enviroment i was born into was stronger than my "genetics" but thats a whole nother story. i dont agree with your propositon for many differnt reasons. i do agree with you buzz. nice post man


There are MANY factors that come into play for your final out come as an adult. I am glad you are here on this earth! I'm not posting on here to change anyones personal oppinions by forcing my ideas or beliefs on anyone. All I can do is show you the pros because honestly I can't think of any cons.

Not many kids with parents in jail are fortunate enough to have a competent person as a back up substitute. This movement would make having children a privledge, which should be valued like that in the first place. When you turn 18 you are responsible for your own actions. Honestly, if you think about it... one way or another all children suffer due to criminals... whether it's lack of text books, safe place to sleep at night, or no food in the cupboard. I don't understand why sterilization is so bad. We're not killing babies here... we're just cutting back alot of unfit parents. Just because mom goes to jail and has the procedure done doesn't mean that dad has to.

There is an immediate need for a change now. There wasn't then. Do you remember the population number of your city 10 years ago? how many baby diapers are thrown away a year in landfills? We were putting a slight dent into the nations debt, but now since all hayell broke loose across the world we are even further submerged.


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## OUTLAW (Nov 3, 2006)

Hell no! Just because somebody gets caught with a pound of weed they should be sterilized??????? Or if I resist arrest(thats a felony)???????? I got a better idea: The Public School system introduces and build colleges for those who want a college education. Why do they charge us anyway when if all Americans had a college education then our country as a whole would benifit greatly. Who'd pay for it???????? Illegal Immigrants/aliens willing to pay for citizenship. p.s.---it's not to late to vote for me for President.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

30% of the total prison population is illegal aliens. Let's just make them free game. It's a pretty alarming indicator of where our country has ended up when the citizens can be harrassed over their favorite breed but 20 million aliens can get away with all that they do. How 'bout some BSL for that crap??? How 'bout the news reporting that crap??? Actually how 'bout just allowing the CITIZENS to go ahead and clean this mess up. The politicians want their vote. They won't do anything about it. I will! Just give me the go ahead. Yeah, sore subject with me, can you tell?


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

OUTLAW said:


> Hell no! Just because somebody gets caught with a pound of weed they should be sterilized??????? Or if I resist arrest(thats a felony)???????? I got a better idea: The Public School system introduces and build colleges for those who want a college education. Why do they charge us anyway when if all Americans had a college education then our country as a whole would benifit greatly. Who'd pay for it???????? Illegal Immigrants/aliens willing to pay for citizenship. p.s.---it's not to late to vote for me for President.


Thank you guys for being so responsive! I need all of this, because I would run myself in circles and still miss areas that I haven't thought of. I am aware of most felonies including resisting arrest. To me, a theif is the same as a murderer and a rapist. Murderers and rapists steal lives. Theft is not a felony unless the amount stolen totals $250 or higher.

I costs us money to build the schools too. That is a great idea, we need the funds to offer that to our citizens... how do we go about doing that? It doesn't grow on trees... it still comes out of our wallet. Can you afford to build at least 50 colleges? Illegal aliens come here to live the american dream... to go from rags to riches. There aren't many people who can afford it.

About the illegal aliens... it'll be cheaper to fork out 1,000 dollars to neuter him and drop him back off at home that to feed clothe and provide shelter haircuts and the cable television for the next 3 months! I guarantee after about 2,000 of em go back home they won't want to come back nor recomend anyone trying to enter "the land of the free" ever again!!! I'm sure we can beef up security at the borders to reduce the amount of aliens, but we still have to pay those salaries as well. If everything went according to plan with the immagrants paying their way into our nation that would be a 30% reduction of our inmates, but what if we could incorporate both ideas and reduce it by 80%?

Outlaw, with innovative positive ideas like that... I'll vote for you!!!:cheers:


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Just because someone is a convicted felony doesn't mean they're a bad parent. Most people stealing and dealing drugs are doing it to feed their families. I know that's no excuse, but if you're working for minimum wage and still unable to pay bills, feed your family, and buy diapers, it's amazing what that kind of desperation will drive you to do. Some of the best people in the world do wrong things for the right reasons. And then there's people in this world who follow every law society throws at them, but still go home and beat or molest their children. I just think that if we ALL look at our family tree, NONE of us would be on this earth if a law like this had been passed years ago. We all have skeletons in our closet and at least one shady ancestor.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

smokey_joe said:


> Just because someone is a convicted felony doesn't mean they're a bad parent. Most people stealing and dealing drugs are doing it to feed their families. I know that's no excuse, but if you're working for minimum wage and still unable to pay bills, feed your family, and buy diapers, it's amazing what that kind of desperation will drive you to do. Some of the best people in the world do wrong things for the right reasons. And then there's people in this world who follow every law society throws at them, but still go home and beat or molest their children. I just think that if we ALL look at our family tree, NONE of us would be on this earth if a law like this had been passed years ago. We all have skeletons in our closet and at least one shady ancestor.


I am by no means straight edge lol. I speed, I smoke pot, I don't wear my seat belt lol. I know it's not really living the life on the wild side but i can see where you're coming from.

I whole heartedly understand that money falls short at the end of the month most of the time... that's when I look for side work ontop of my second job. If you need to provide for your family there are many government assistance programs to pay your way. When you have children the government is full of handouts like tax breaks, housing, cash, foodstamps, and even money that directly pays your monthly living expenses. Wait... most of these drug dealers are collecting all of that AND helping the community out by making extra cash off of other kids and their parents. Drug Dealers steal lives from the children too by selling drugs to the parents. When an addiction is formed nothing comes before the addiction. Yes, to an extent, it's not the dealers fault that a man made that decision for himself, but he doesn't have to ad fuel to the fire. I know everyone has a vice whether it's chewing on the eraser of a pencil or it's crack... the difference is, hard drugs are alot more expensive and compromise EVERYONE'S morals and personality. As a parent how could you allow those types of people around your children... well... as a parent how could you have drugs in the same house as your child... it only takes once of finding it.

There are "law abiding citizens" who do go home and do unspeakable things... I know that there are people who just make stupid desicions... even if one person never gets sterilized because the law was passed and announced it would help EVERYONE out. Everyone has at least a couple of mess ups in their family...

Today is different than 20-30 years ago. Crime is up. Ignorance is up. Carelessness is up. Population is up. I'm sorry, I live/work in one of the most dangerous cities in the US right now (jacksonville, florida), i know it's worse here than most anywhere else. I don't see how birthcontrol is so bad with the realities we are facing as a nation... well... as a world too. I can't say "no" to saving money, helping children, and the globe.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Shana I think you want what is best for the world but yoy are not looking at the big picture. What you are talking about is a form of Genocide. That is a very dangerous place to be. To me what you are talking about is really no different than what governments of the past have tried to do with ridding us of a race of people. 
The white people came over and didn't like the indians called them heathens they put small poxs in the blankets to kill them they shot them.
The government didn't like different religions they burned people at the stake.
The government didn;t like black people they never got a fair trail they were called lesser people.

To me you are doing the same thing. You are saying that those that committ a crime (felony) should not be allowed to have a child. Or OOPPs we made a mistake well it's okay we will reverse the surgury and you are all good. It doesn't work that way. You are messing with people minds. 

I have a realy good co-worker. He is sitting in jail right now for drunk driving. He is a great worker a good friend a fantasic daddy. He just can't handle alcohol. It gets him inot trouble. Are you saying that he should ot be allowed to have another child because he needs help styaing away from this life style.
If that were the case we would have lots of white people running around and damn few indains and black people. The government and the judicial system will always proscute them first.

I like Buzz's thinking lets bring back vigilantism. I think that we would have fewer criminals if they knew that the family would string them up.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Oh, yeah. I know exactly what you are saying, Shana. If you need to make money, there is definitely better ways to go about it than committing a crime, but sometimes, for whatever reason, people feel that is the way to go. I was just trying to show that not all felons are bad parents. Sometimes, they commit these crimes because of the love they have for their children.

Around here, if you are a convicted felon, you cannot get government assistance. You can't get government housing or food stamps. And I know many people that make just enough money to not qualify for any type of government assistance, but they still struggle. This country makes it hard on the working man.

There have been many people that made a huge positive impact on this earth because they were born into crime and poverty. Instead of embracing that lifestyle, they took a stand to make a real difference and the world is better because they were born. I just don't want to deny the world someone who will truly make a difference because one of their parents was a felon.

Maybe if I lived somewhere with a higher crime rate, I'd be all for it. 

I do think that it would be a good idea to spay/neuter sex offenders.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

MY MIKADO said:


> Shana I think you want what is best for the world but yoy are not looking at the big picture. What you are talking about is a form of Genocide. That is a very dangerous place to be. To me what you are talking about is really no different than what governments of the past have tried to do with ridding us of a race of people.
> The white people came over and didn't like the indians called them heathens they put small poxs in the blankets to kill them they shot them.
> The government didn't like different religions they burned people at the stake.
> The government didn;t like black people they never got a fair trail they were called lesser people.
> ...


I'm just throwing the idea out here to see what kinds of repsonses i get. If the majority is no than I can't argue. I live in a place where color is not an issue... yes, the majority of us in this area are minorities, but i we do not look at color as a decision maker... your actions are. It is vastly across the country like that now. I thought I was looking at the big picture with all of those benefits I listed... I am starting to change my mind a little on the actual kinds of felonies though. You guys are bringing me back alittle from the Darkside lol.

I'm thinking grand theft, DUI with a result of injuries other than the actual driver, distribution of illegal narcotics, and all violent/sexual crimes.

Drinking causes hayell within a family when a person can't control that habit. Alcohol tends to bring out the person that you always tru not to be! Drunk driving i do consider serious. I don't know if your co-worker was involved in a situation where an accident occured or not, but if he didn't he could have killed another person.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

No my co-worker was actually stopped along side the road cause the car quit working. This was his second time the other time he got tired and was sleeping in the back seat. 

I can only talk about things that I know and up here if you read the court reports I would have to say that 96% of the people that are in there for crimes are people of colour. I know for a fact that stores watch people of colour more than white people for shop lifting ALL the TIME. I get mad about this so I watch whites. I have caught a few too. I just feel that this is a too drastic measure. I think that sexuall predators and muderers should be put to death.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I think death is too nice of a punishment for our lifers/deathrow inmates. I believe that we should benefit from them as well by having them fight for our country in iraq. They need a little panick in their lives. :cheers:


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I do not think that the men and women that are serving our country would appreciate having these lowlifers fighting along side themselves. I want to be proud of our country and our service people if we had these undesireable people on the emeny lines I see nothing to be proud of.


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## Judy (Dec 12, 2005)

There is not enough evidence to correlate criminal behavior with genetics. Family history of mental health issues, maybe, but that still doesn't mean offspring is likely to have same.


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## Roxy_Nie (Oct 10, 2008)

Even though it's not proven to be genetic. I say do it!


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

OUTLAW said:


> Hell no! Just because somebody gets caught with a pound of weed they should be sterilized??????? Or if I resist arrest(thats a felony)???????? I got a better idea: The Public School system introduces and build colleges for those who want a college education. Why do they charge us anyway when if all Americans had a college education then our country as a whole would benifit greatly. Who'd pay for it???????? Illegal Immigrants/aliens willing to pay for citizenship. p.s.---it's not to late to vote for me for President.


If college was free, we would not appreciate it. There are many programs and scholarships for people who really want to go for free. Seriously, anyone can spend their high school years using every free second to study, and get straight A's in honors classes, I like most other people thought I'd rather go to the mall and talk on the phone etc. I worked an after school job, and still had plenty of weekend time and such for homework, it was my own fault I had a B average, and couldn't go to Yale for free, but I know people who did get straight As, and full scholarships.

Please keep in mind that these procedures can be reversed if a person turns out to be wrongfully convicted.

Hahahaha didn't realize how old this was


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## jeepfreak (Jun 19, 2009)

buzhunter said:


> 30% of the total prison population is illegal aliens. Let's just make them free game. It's a pretty alarming indicator of where our country has ended up when the citizens can be harrassed over their favorite breed but 20 million aliens can get away with all that they do. How 'bout some BSL for that crap??? How 'bout the news reporting that crap??? Actually how 'bout just allowing the CITIZENS to go ahead and clean this mess up. The politicians want their vote. They won't do anything about it. I will! Just give me the go ahead. Yeah, sore subject with me, can you tell?


right on ...a good ethnic cleansing !!!!!! take a look around they are destroying our country ..it looks like a big dirty poop hole ...atleast since they came to my city....grafitti on everything brown pride bullcrap everywhere !!...makes me sick bunch of gosh darn savages !!!!!


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

My Mom has been to prison twice on felony drug charges........ But she had herself spayed lol so hmmmm I don't know. Its a good idea but I think would have to be based on other terms the a felony. 

Rapist, murders,child molesters or abusers.. Yes ... Well I just say kill all them but that me


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## Roxy_Nie (Oct 10, 2008)

american_pit13 said:


> Rapist, murders,child molesters or abusers.. Yes ... Well I just say kill all them but that me


Right On!........


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