# Colby opinion



## IllaLupus (Apr 24, 2016)

I have mixed feelings about todays colby blood so I did have a few questions for the word of mouth and not Google etc.

I know there are a lot of byb's sporting "Colby" blood and majority of the dogs are just bullies or Amstaff crosses which is where I'm wondering on my dogs pedigree. I've yet to send in his for his papers and all that so I cannot post a link to his pedigree just yet.

I just want to hear opinions on the whole idea of a Colby x Heinzl cross I know it matters more when you can view pedigree to give input. Guess I'd like opinions on whether you think Colby is a go these days or a no no since everyone seems to think that blood is tainted.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Both of the bloodlines you mention are only shells of what they once were. 

Colby dogs, from that family, are closer to Am Staffs today. 
Heinzl died long ago, and his dogs are gone. Nobody has dogs down from his, that have not been outcrossed. 

It is similar to many today who claim to have Carver dogs. 
Maurice died in 1979. When he died, any breedings, even if from his dogs, are no longer his. 
Example: give two breeders the same stock, from the same family, one on the east coast, one on the west. 
After a few generations of breeding, although they began with same blood, they will be two separate bloodlines. 

Too many people today are caught up in the past, wanting a bloodline with dogs' names that have been dead for over 50 years. 
The only dogs that matter for a litter are the grandparents and great grandparents. The pups will come out like them. 

So, when you see people throw those names out, it should be seen as a warning. 
The dogs they speak of are not the same dogs as the names they carried. 
Lou Colby, for example, was not a dogman, and after his brother died, the dogs were no longer matched, or at least sold for that purpose, nor bred for it. 

A friend of mine who was in the dogs back in the day told me Heinzl was a playboy more than a dogman. 
He started out good, from using dogs he got from others. 
Jake Wilder is another example. By the time he was old he had a yard full of manbiters (same for Hemphill, and the one who got his dogs had to cull 12 whole litters!) and had crossed his dogs with red bone coonhounds. 
This is where the widows peak dogs came from, the red dogs with a mask. 

It always amazes me when people ask about dogs long gone. They read how they used to be, and fail to understand the breedings today follow a totally different blue print. 
Colby dogs were once good, which cannot be denied. What few know is John P. Colby was also the first official peddler. 

So, if you're looking for a dog merely for its history, sure, they'll give you a shell of what they once were. 
But remember, nobody has pure Heinzl dogs that have not been outcrossed. 
So by saying Heinzl/Colby, whoever says that it a liar. 

No dogs by those names have been in the fast lane for a long time.

Joe Corvino once said: "The test of a dog is the show; the test of a family is time." Both Heinzl and Colby dogs have failed the test.


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## Blossom01 (Nov 8, 2014)

Goemon said:


> Too many people today are caught up in the past, wanting a bloodline with dogs' names that have been dead for over 50 years.
> The only dogs that matter for a litter are the grandparents and great grandparents. The pups will come out like them.
> 
> So, when you see people throw those names out, it should be seen as a warning.
> .


I agree. People get way too interested in perceived "romanticism" and idealism behind the dogs and not the dogs themselves.


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## Steinlin (Dec 20, 2009)

Goemon said:


> Both of the bloodlines you mention are only shells of what they once were.
> 
> Colby dogs, from that family, are closer to Am Staffs today.
> Heinzl died long ago, and his dogs are gone. Nobody has dogs down from his, that have not been outcrossed.
> ...


My definition of 'gossip'...? 
Someone who spreads rumors about others, based solely on what they believe from someone or something else. If you have no first hand knowledge nor facts to validate your negative statements, I take offence to your post sir!


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## Steinlin (Dec 20, 2009)

IllaLupus said:


> I have mixed feelings about todays colby blood so I did have a few questions for the word of mouth and not Google etc.
> 
> I know there are a lot of byb's sporting "Colby" blood and majority of the dogs are just bullies or Amstaff crosses which is where I'm wondering on my dogs pedigree. I've yet to send in his for his papers and all that so I cannot post a link to his pedigree just yet.
> 
> I just want to hear opinions on the whole idea of a Colby x Heinzl cross I know it matters more when you can view pedigree to give input. Guess I'd like opinions on whether you think Colby is a go these days or a no no since everyone seems to think that blood is tainted.


It's a matter of research..eg:who did the breedings, what strains did they use, were they family breeding...etc, etc, etc...It takes years of research to learn. 
Without more info, the answer to your question is mute
The Colby family of dogs(just as other foundation strains) have been maintained and also kept by private individuals for a long time, so to get facts on your dog you would need to gather info and getting a pedigree would be a start. Talking to the seller more, might bring some info? 
The Heinzl dogs were often enhanced with the use of certain individuals from the Colby blood and it was quite common to see it..
It will be interesting to see how your dog has been bred down


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

^ I have recently opened my search in good old fashion working colby. I have a close freind that had an exceptional young male. Pure in the blood. Unfortunately he passed away young. And we were unable to use him in his or my breeding plans. Hence i jave been searching oit the working stock startimg with this dogs father and going from there. We will see what we find.
I also have a buddy of mine that runs pretty tight bred Heinzl. He does how ever cross with hammonds here and there. He has since picked up some colby blood too. So i think the idea of said cross is widely ideal. At least within thise that choose to use dogs bred from these families.


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## Steinlin (Dec 20, 2009)

A promising start! 
Over the years I have had trusted friends that obtained exceptional animals from the Colby strain. Most lines usually had some in them, somewhere, and I was told that it was used for many reasons but primarily it was favored to put bone in the progeny and bring up percentages.(Not very much was needed)
You say your friend has tight Heinzl ..but crosses with Hammond? As far back as I can remember, Hammond fancied the Heinzl stuff. I brought up a couple off gary, for a friend..this one called Tan Man The Pit Bull Bible APBT Database -
but they were never my cup of tea on their own. Then I saw the introduction of the Parkson stuff and the change..and it is still showing the tight family today.

Have you found any particular dogs that you prefer/favorites (structurally, mentally etc etc)


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I myself have turtlebuster redboy crosses that touch on other blood but that is the base. I also have been using Sorrells blood. I will cross to Colby if i find the right dogs that are producing, when it gets to tight. 
I guess i hadnt looked that far back into to hamminds peds to see he used heinzl. May he why he uses the dogs he does to put a break in the tight breedings without truley going from it.?.


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## Steinlin (Dec 20, 2009)

I used to be real interested when Gaines bred into that Kingfish blood, I hadn't seen any Lightner stuff, especially linebred. At the time I had very similar blood to the bottomside of the Turtle dog and was all ears..it didn't disappoint..Fargo and then the great Timex, and the rest is history. It's too bad that stuff is not around tight anymore
Only redboy I had was one down from Holland stuff and I really liked it, but lost him too soon to be able to use the blood. Always liked it..and if I started over again I would probably fool with it more


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## Steinlin (Dec 20, 2009)

I don't envy anyone that has to go 'out'...I was able to stay actively in my own yard for 30 odd years, and in those days, it never entered my mind that the foundation blood that I started with could ever be gone! I never really let anything tight bred out, as I had been taught...always thought my mentor had it covered...
Then he passed away


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

The redboy i use is down from Decon. I also have tiny bit through cottingham blood. As far as the Gains dogs go if i could find it pure i would take up as much as i was aloud to het my hands on. I feel like the sorrells i keep it would make a great foundation to build on amd easy to cross when need be. 
I have found it as tight a 3/4 of a couple pedigrees but since i dont care much for the out i keep looking.


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