# Mentors (back to the BASICS



## phabolous962 (Sep 1, 2013)

As we all know, most good dogmen/breeders started by having great mentors. They were around these guys being schooled on a regular basis, to become what the "APBT world" knows of them today. I sit and read so many post and articles that are full of mistakes. Not even trial and error, but BIG MISTAKES that most idiots dont have the knowledge (or the drive to research and try to correct). We have entered an era were money puts you in the game instead of knowledge, care, and concern for the breed. Most of them woudnt know a STratton book from their a** We have more puppy-mills that are called kennels, than we have "yards". (most people will know what i mean by this) We are in an era where the dogs are owned by humans who have no drive, but want the dogs to have all the drive in the world. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS POST AS<ME TRYING TO BE A KNOW-IT-ALL, im simply speaking on the things i see, due to my paying attention. The breeders of the past put effort into making these dogs better, one way or another. Even though we wont be able to do the things they did, we can still push to be on the same drawing board. I know that I NEED A MENTOR, like most people who own these dogs do, I just love the dogs enough to admit it. I see people on here who actually know the history of these dogs, and their sincerity shows in their post. Thank you guys very much!!!!! But more mentors are needed today so any of you guys who are willing, im here pencil and paper in hand willing to learn more. Thanks in Advance!!!!


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

phabolous962 said:


> As we all know, most good dogmen/breeders started by having great mentors. !!


 The " search " function is your friend , reading is your friend.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Im not a huge fan of mentors. I had a coach tell me years ago "never limit yourself to my "greatness"". There's nothing wrong with having a main source of info but you're only going to hear their side. Maybe I just have different views. I wanna learn something from everyone. I feel if you put too much stock in one person you limit yourself to their achievements.


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## phabolous962 (Sep 1, 2013)

I agree 100% JustTap, so much to learn, so many sources.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Mentors are educational guides they show you the way. You havd to choose your path, only them will you know if yu are making an epic journey or just going to end up at the same dead end as many other mediocre so and so's...


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## phabolous962 (Sep 1, 2013)

Rudy4747 said:


> Mentors are educational guides they show you the way. You havd to choose your path, only them will you know if yu are making an epic journey or just going to end up at the same dead end as many other mediocre so and so's...


But would you say, that the general mistakes (not all but a nice amount) could be avoided with the general knowledge that alot of mentors provide to those who are really willing to learn.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Rudy4747 said:


> Mentors are educational guides they show you the way. You havd to choose your path, only them will you know if yu are making an epic journey or just going to end up at the same dead end as many other mediocre so and so's...


But they can only take you as far down their "path" as they made it. Why not talk to everyone possible gain the knowledge from all available sources and blaze your own trail? I've never been a coat tail rider. I couldn't just be 1 persons yard boy for 15 years to only realize someone out there knew and did better and I have to relearn everything I know.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

That is were the finding your own way comes in...


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

phabolous962 said:


> But would you say, that the general mistakes (not all but a nice amount) could be avoided with the general knowledge that alot of mentors provide to those who are really willing to learn.


 Damn , how complicated ya gonna make it? It's a simple as shutting up and making like a sponge , squeeze the sponge out every once in a while and keep what's useful and valid at that time , file the rest away for consideration later.

How hard is that?


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## phabolous962 (Sep 1, 2013)

not trying to complicate anything i was simply elaborating and responding to rudy's post. It seems that made you angry, im not here to argue over the internet, im here because of my interest in dogs....end of story


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

phabolous962 said:


> But would you say, that the general mistakes (not all but a nice amount) could be avoided with the general knowledge that alot of mentors provide to those who are really willing to learn.


May be I am norlt making sence I beleive mentors are great asset. I feel that ever would could benefit from having some one sut diwn and teach them. Show them how to work their dog. How to learn the dogs . How to not over work them how to tell when doing something wrong or see when the dogs is making bad moves.

As JTP said though it is up to the person learning to take it to next level and make their own mark on their chosen activities. ..

Mentors are great part of the journey is picking the good honest one that will help best your chances of doing well.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Certainly, learning from numerous sources for a broader experience would be ideal. But something to consider would be whether all of those various source are willing to teach you on the same level as you can obtain from an in depth, one on one mentoring relationship.


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## phabolous962 (Sep 1, 2013)

thanks for the positive feed-back i was just sharing my thoughts. I really like talking to dogpeople, thats all thats it. But once agian thanks for all the POSITIVE feed back


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Ur o


Just Tap Pits said:


> Im not a huge fan of mentors. I had a coach tell me years ago "never limit yourself to my "greatness"". There's nothing wrong with having a main source of info but you're only going to hear their side. Maybe I just have different views. I wanna learn something from everyone. I feel if you put too much stock in one person you limit yourself to their achievements.[/Q
> 
> A mentor does not have to be soul source of information, establishing a relationship with such a person is frs more beneficial to one than not.. If your serious about your choice of dogs, there is NO better way to gain access to traditional private stock than establishing a relationship with someone that is offering you a door of opportunity to gain from everyone theyve learned from, their own mistakes and their own paths...
> 
> ...


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

Lotta times ya got to read between the lines a bit....
I think pretty much olddog has given you ya first lesson...
This day and time there's so much u can learn by reading and soaking it up..books that wernt there r here now..
I dont kno what ur looking to accomplish but there's nothin like hands on.....if ur true to the dogs they;ll be tru to you....
And before you kno it some ol guy will notice and help you...
Alotta guys will tell they did it on there own and some did.....
But alotta dogs may have suffered for it tho.....
Get you some knowledge......when u need an answer to a question 
these ol heads will kno by the way u ask it if u rightous or not...

Jtp has a good concept and pickin up bits and pieces from a few may be the way.....but either way u just aint gonna walk up and tell a dude u want a mentor and he says cool lets get busy...

If there is one piece of advise i could give ya it wood be dont go to fast..it takes years to get where some old heads r....
So now;;;;you got dogs? If ya do learn them and learn from them.u mite surprise yaself.....


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

phabolous962 said:


> not trying to complicate anything i was simply elaborating and responding to rudy's post. It seems that made you angry, im not here to argue over the internet, im here because of my interest in dogs....end of story


 Ohh for chrissakes................. beleive me you'll know if I'm "angry" , a right fine way to make folks "angry" is to accuse them of " anger" and/or " arguement" when there is no such thing going on.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

OldDog said:


> Ohh for chrissakes................. beleive me you'll know if I'm "angry" , a right fine way to make folks "angry" is to accuse them of " anger" and/or " arguement" when there is no such thing going on.


Agreed. You wanna see me riled up, tell me to calm down when I'm not worked up to begin with!


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

KMdogs said:


> Ur o
> 
> 
> Just Tap Pits said:
> ...


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## back2basics (Apr 9, 2012)

Everyone please calm down, lol I couldn't help myselfoke:


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

NO ONE, I MEAN ABSOLUTELY NO ONE,

is gonna waste their time on some RANK GREENHORN who asks some questions,
then goes somewhere else to verify it.

because everyone has a different way of doing things, 
getting to the same goal, but taking a different path.

not saying either way is right or wrong.

you need to want to learn, read, read, and then read some more.

and i'm not talking this internet crap, i mean books, that will get you started,
because, i promise the fellow their talking to has read them.

and if he did why cant you????????????

i dont want to be question, just so i can hear, well, thats not they wat so and so does it,

well, no joke, why dont you just go and follow him around then?????????

someone who has taken years of their life, why would he want to take you anywhere with him and introduce you to his friends, so you can question their methods also?????????

get a grip.......

do you think i want you riding in my truck for hours to get somewhere, to be doubted....

i hope i'm smarter than that. the only place i want to see someone like that, is across from me, with some gold, damn sure aint dealing with no 'broke dick sob'

if you cant get in line and follow, until you work your way up threw the ranks,
your just gonna be another chump with a dog...............

believe me you will NEVER move up on your own, you have to have someone who's 
been there done that.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

surfer said:


> NO ONE, I MEAN ABSOLUTELY NO ONE,
> 
> is gonna waste their time on some RANK GREENHORN who asks some questions,
> then goes somewhere else to verify it.
> ...


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

Theres an ol head that lives near me and i've went to him plenty of times....now that he's older and his family dont have the same views and direction that he had,and I don't get along with them at all!!I don't get to see him much..but.as far as cleaning the yard and all,pride cant come in to play....cause i know now and knew then that if he asked me to do something he would do it his self......
I dont go up to see him every day but if he was to call and ask me to come pick up shit cause his grand kids r out on the town and forgot...i'd drop what ima doing and go...no questions asked!!!
It's happened quite a few times.....
We hardly ever talk dogs anymore,it's fishing or kids and shit like that....one thing i will say and i know it to be fact....his dogs have never left his yard.never....they just his friends now and he/they havnt done a breeding in years.i think he is more hurt by the fact they dont get work like they should but he wouldnt let me touch them so i quit asking....the very reason if i gotta question i'll go to the heads hear or some close by,simply because i dont want to bother him....my point being and long winded as it is pride can screw up a good relation ship...if the dude ask you to scoop a turd now and then do it...dont be suprised if ya look up and he's rite beside you.......


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

surfer said:


> NO ONE, I MEAN ABSOLUTELY NO ONE,
> 
> is gonna waste their time on some RANK GREENHORN who asks some questions,
> then goes somewhere else to verify it.
> ...


I see what youre saying but couldnt disagree more. Learning different techniques from other ppl should never aggravate a good teacher or mentor. What you wrote is the whole reason I have the views I do. If an inferiority complex stops you from being a good teacher you're not 1 I want. (That was a general statement not directed at you personally).


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

the ones who doubt what i said, how long have you had dogs? and i mean the real kind of dogs.

because there is no one on this forum that if i have a question, that i would ask..........

then get back in touch with me in 5yrs, and lets just see where your at, 
more than likely you wont even have dogs.

now there is a difference between asking a question or two and having a mentor.

because no person that i know of will put up with that
whether you believe it or not.................

and i'm talking about someone who has better the breed, not some one who just sells dogs, that a peddler, not a mentor.

and when i say mentor, i'm talkin a proven record...............

lets just see in 5yrs.............

because most that i would consider mentors, if you try to get information from more than one. the multiples that your going to, to you they may seem like friends.

but to them thats their compotition, why would i invite a traitor in to my camp???????????

because thats what you would be in their eyes a TRAITOR, learning from me and then showing my tricks of the trade to my compotition.................. think about it.

like i said, another chump with a dog....................

and this is not directed at any one person, but if the shoe fits...........

then its you i'm talking about..............


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Inferiority complex.... I dnt see how ur a traitor by getting 2 opinions(and that is possible without busting out source # 1). The #1 sign of a shitty coach or mentorr is thinking they know everything and no1 knows better.(once again opinion based on my life not aimed at anyone)


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

Rudy4747 said:


> THis is so true. I dont see a problem with going out side your circle to get help in an area that you think maybe your peeps could use help in. I have a guy I talk to about every thing, he is supper old school. So when it came to feeding and supps I looked around. I can tell you their are a couple of men on this forum I would love to sit down with for couple of days lol.
> 
> We do have a person that comes around and asks tons of questions but then we see thatm asking every one the same thing and why and where they choose the answer to except to me still is a mystery lol.


They do that mostly to get the answer THEY want to hear.

Then again as a student not one teacher knows everything while a teacher may be very scholarly they specialize in one particular subject. While yes an English teacher may excel at math, history, and science as well his passion more than likely is English. Then again way back in the day one person taught all the children. if you look at it like every one does everything differently you learn lots of stuff. ain't nothing wrong with hanging around good people at the end of the day.

Is it like a karate kinda thing? You train at your dojo only.

Sent from Petguide.com Free AppFEAR DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS DOJO


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## back2basics (Apr 9, 2012)

Associating with too many people to get answers can be perceived by your peers as weakness, among other things. If one doesn't know the answers; books, trial & error, and your closest friends work best. Not that it's the only way, just a preferred way that will get you further.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Inferiority complex.... I dnt see how ur a traitor by getting 2 opinions(and that is possible without busting out source # 1). The #1 sign of a shitty coach or mentorr is thinking they know everything and no1 knows better.(once again opinion based on my life not aimed at anyone)


I think what sufer is trying to say is you havent been in the game long enough to know not to give away the play book. You don't let the other team know the trick plays. I understand where he is coming from.

A good teacher knows the answers if not, they know where to get them and will direct you to some one in the circle to help ya. evry teacher father mentor wants the best from the people they are investing time in, and want them to better them selves. no one likes to be second guessed every time they turn around either!

Just wait even Weight pull nuts are all crazy about their secrets to getting a dog read for cmpetition lol!


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> They do that mostly to get the answer THEY want to hear.
> 
> Is it like a karate kinda thing? You train at your dojo only.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free AppFEAR DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS DOJO


So true and every one has to find what works for them, but once you find saaid "Dojo" why not stay their and stop jumping around?! To me I would think the proudest day for a teacher is the day when the student becomes the 'master'! lol


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

I think rudy is trying to be the mediator in here....and he's doing a gd job.
I also believe surfer is thinkin one way and jtp is thinking another.............
jtp what the ol head is leaning on is this,,,you have camp abc and camp xyz.

now in the world surfer speaks of, if you go to mr a in abc and get some knowledge and later go mr x in the camp xyz and get a different answer and your response is well mr a said they do so an so...well now mr x may disagree or....he may think durn that's how they been whipping us all these years..you were just trying to learn a bit but now u have become a dbl.agent without even know ing it...nxt thing no one is talkin to ya even camp xyz and they r the ones that u helped but if u'd do to abc u'd do it to xyz also.
make sence what ima saying??? ima trying to say something without saying it!

in the pulling world its the same just not as secretive.....and cutthroat...
but...the good thing about sticking to one "mentor" if what he says doesn't work for u,yall can figger it out together and both mite benefit...going to different ppl that have diff. solutions to the same problem you'll spend more time fixing than working.....

dam so much for the readers digest version of that response huh....


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

welder said:


> I think rudy is trying to be the mediator in here....and he's doing a gd job.
> I also believe surfer is thinkin one way and jtp is thinking another.............
> jtp what the ol head is leaning on is this,,,you have camp abc and camp xyz.
> 
> ...


Very well said!


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

See i come here to learn and grow. Those that cant say that, maybe it'd be best to just go.[/quote]

McCoy.......wth are u talkin about??....u need some mo coffee?lol


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

once again..HUH?


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

ats what i thought u ment just wanted to hear it!!!

But no it was all generic...not at u or anyone else....

Just trying to get a point across......

And trust me brother...if i gotta direct something at ya...u'll kno it!!!!!! Hahahahalol......maybe ya oughta put the coffee down and smoke a joint..........lol


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

I get it now welder. Maybe delivery just got crossed on my end. Like I said in my first post if certain old timers asked me to squeeze every anal gland on his 200 dog yard id JUMP at the opportunity to do it. I guess everything ive ever been involved in has always been "open" to other instructors and techniques. 

I guess not everyone is me though. Im sure there has been plenty of ppl to do just as you described. Also not having a "mentor" worthy yard in close proximity to me has something to do with it also. I think there is other avenues of getting info without giving your teachers secretes away also. Im sure after the races everyone stood around and bsed. Perfect opportunity to stfu and listen. Im sure you could get more info if yiu just shut up and listen and wait to be talked to as opposed to just walkig up to everyone and start running the trap. Im sure most everyone here has been given tips from outside of their circle that they ened up implementing in their game plan. 

Geographically not everyone is in a position to have a mentor and not everyone can sit and be talked to like they lower than dirt constantly. I know I can only ass kiss for so long and be treated like a pos before I snap. Any teacher who acts high and mighty compared to his student is missing half the experience of teaching


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

ah so graashapper....gotta spread it b4 I give it but u no...
location does make a diff....
weight pulling can be done alone,but like anything else if someone has made the mistakes and found the correction can jump in with both feet to help ya its got to be quicker....but learning things hands on has a tendancy to stick with ya...
that being said if you was to decide to turn the blinker switch to the left and get in that lane itsa different world....

u'll do fine man,learn the hounds and learn from them...baby steps!!!oh yeah...a gd man aint gonna treat ya like that...if he did he'd be alone...........

hell,even john force didn't start off a winner!!!hahahaha get outta that f'd up state and come down here.....nah...scratch that...fergit I said that...plzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...lol


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Lmao. Gages Co owner is like that man.(always trying to help and laways being positive but honest) But I never looked at him as a mentor (and he never looked at me as a student) it was always a friendship and hed just help me out or vice versa. Hell since ive been working gage everyday I can see what I had done wrong. Even when old boy came down with mccoy he showed me the 1 or 2 things I wasnt quite doing right (wasnt doing it "wrong" just wrong for the individual dog). I keep thinking Louisiana looks nice. Tired of up here for sure.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

here's the skinny, if your starting out, yes your gonna want to look around , and ask a bunch of questions. but what happens is your talking to my compotition, 
i want my dogs to whip every one elses dogs at everything to prove i have 
THE BEST DOGS ON THE PLANET EARTH.

now, i know thats not possible, but thats what i'm striving for, 
eg. say diet, lets say i'm feeding one way, and you ask XYZ and he's feeding another

and i havent lost to him yet, and you ask XYZ why i feed this wqay and you feed that way,

now you've just given my secret away, [a traitor] 
do you think i'm gonna open my mouth agan and tell you anything??????????

for instance, i just drove 11hrs to make a breeding, and was around some very
important dogmen, who we all are in the same circle,

you cant honestly believe that i would want to ride 11hrs, with someone who's giving secrets away, because, boy i would hear DO NOT BRING HIM AROUND HERE ANY MORE.

you work towards a common goal, and mine is to prove how good those red boy dogs are..........................

but, i've learned to accept a loss, not that i like it, but if your helping the other side out,

while trying to get in our circle, thats a traitor


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

I think that's what it really boils down to. You can shoot the $#!+ all day long but if the person or people you're talking to don't trust you implicitly then you're never going to get further than just the surface of what they know.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

mccoypitbulls said:


> To say that there are no yards near or that the location is no good..is not correct.. they are out there.
> I'm learning from folks here and there.it is possible to gain some good stuff online ..sure nothing better than actually physically doing so, but it keeps you on topic..lol


No I was 100% correct. Within an hour from my house there are no mentor worthy dog yards. And no just bcuz u learn from sum1 doesnt make them a mentor. A mentor is a lot more than a source of information. Of course all that is a matter of opinion like this whole thread seems to have been lol.


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

must be a dam yankee thang.....yall'd argue with a stop sign...

first thing is .....lose the chip!!!! the 1 on ya shoulder's.............


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## mccoypitbulls (Nov 26, 2009)

stop twice tomorrow!!


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

welder said:


> must be a dam yankee thang.....yall'd argue with a stop sign...
> 
> first thing is .....lose the chip!!!! the 1 on ya shoulder's.............


Hey aint no chip on my shoulder. Got hungry and ate it..... all this seems opinion based so no1 here could be right or wrong. If no1 could be right or wrong aint no reason to argue lol

Ive onky argued with a stop sign when I was drunk. When I punched that sob he just stood there all red in the face..... coward ass sign.


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## phabolous962 (Sep 1, 2013)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Hey aint no chip on my shoulder. Got hungry and ate it..... all this seems opinion based so no1 here could be right or wrong. If no1 could be right or wrong aint no reason to argue lol
> 
> Ive onky argued with a stop sign when I was drunk. When I punched that sob he just stood there all red in the face..... coward ass sign.


Lol!!!!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Princesspaola21 (Oct 30, 2012)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Hey aint no chip on my shoulder. Got hungry and ate it..... all this seems opinion based so no1 here could be right or wrong. If no1 could be right or wrong aint no reason to argue lol
> 
> Ive onky argued with a stop sign when I was drunk. When I punched that sob he just stood there all red in the face..... coward ass sign.


Lmao!!!!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Ive learned a lot from a lot of people and am still learning. I think the biggest thing when getting information and processing it is to ask questions, but dont just rattle off anything that comes to mind, think about what you want to ask and how to ask it so you can get the most from them and understand what they tell you.

Ive also gotten some awesome information on feeding etc from some very experienced dogmenwomen and instead of rattling off what they were kind enough to tell me to someone else like how most people might do it, I would ask another person.. what do you think would happen if I did this, this or this.. to see how they feel on the same subject, not directly giving away who said what or exactly how I was told to do it but getting them to expand on the subject so I could get how they feel about it or what they feel would happen if I tried such and such things, although for the most part most dogmen/women dont mind too much telling you about feeds and keeps, because they can tell you everything you want to know about how THEY do it verbatim, and it doesnt change much, because the dogs are the biggest part, I could put a turd through the same feeding regimen and keep as them and still have a turd, dont change the quality of the animal I am feeding.. if that makes sense so most dont mind too much if you are legitimately trying to learn.

Another thing I have found is, its best to never limit yourself to one persons ideas on the whole thing, because you are limiting yourself and your dogs to be the best they can be. Take some from this person and that person and then figure out your own way based on what you have learned. Thats how you better your program and the dogs. 
Ive got a good bit of people around me I would consider my mentors and I hate sounding dumb so I will stew on a question for a long time before I ask it to them, just to make sure I can get the most out of their time and know exactly what I am trying to ask lol

I am very lucky in the fact that I am around people who can teach me, the BF being the main one, he learned from a very nice man I am sure you all know and is still very good friends with him and I am learning from him, we are also being given a great opportunity and moving to be closer to another great dogman as well as some great dogwomen to learn some more from. Even though you might not have a big name guy in your back yard to talk to, if you listen and hush just a little you can learn a lot from afar.. jmo on the thing.


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## OldDog (Mar 4, 2010)

As I've said previous to this , emulate a sponge.


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## mccoypitbulls (Nov 26, 2009)

Basics. gotta get back. 
I know the agenda benind the thread now very clear. 
Pookie summed it up to the T and i couldnt say it better.
Some are here to learn and grow, while others are here to stunt and show.
I hope nobody has the impression that i am here to brag anything, and if you know me, you know thats not how i am. I was just needing a little clearity on the subject, which after a day of not being here. I forgot hom much i like the Today show and evening T.V. and gained the insight from the Voice!!!!!
The voice is on, and they have been hitting on the mentor things to much suprise.
Blake Shelton gave a great review of one of his teams mentors(Sher), and someone that he picked gave a great over sight on how lucky he was to be learning from Mr. Shelton.
Bout how it is in the real world(Holywood or not)..
Also had a funeral so, sorry for my delayed lil twist to the tread

I realised. So thanks - teachers and students!!


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