# Compitition



## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

Hey, i thought i would start a new thread and ask you fine people you opinions. 
Ok as you know i have a 72lb male named Harley. Now i got Har by accident, i was looking for another breed cuz i really didnt know much about the pitbull at the time. But i got him. So.. as life goes, Harley grew to be about 85lbs at around 1 1/2 years old. He was a beast. But i had people tell me that " they knew a guy with a bigger pit" or "they had a bigger pit" or something about the head being bigger or neck. Why are people so competitive with their pitbulls? I dont care how big my dogs will be!! Or there head or teeth and so on!! So why does everyone else? I had a group of teenagers standing at the store with their pitbulls, tellin me to let my dog off her leash so they can fight!! WTF? My dog was NOT a fighter so why would they say that? I raise my dogs with kids. I trust them more with my kids then any other dog!!! 
But another sitution, i have a friend with a pitty and hes a big dog, but she tells everyone that her dog is bigger then mine, hes 80lbs and Har is 72lbs, but her dog looks crossbred and she has no papers with her dog, as do i. She bought her dog from a backyard breeder who did it outta his apartment, Harley was bought from a friend of my breeder. Her dog has showed agression to her children, mine, not a soul. So really if she wants a compition, then i think my dog comes out the winner!! But i dont wanna do that. I love my dogs and wanna live a life with them, so why does all this stuff matter? I dont care if your dog is bigger or smaller, white or black. If its a loving dog, THEN WHO CARES!!!


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Dumb fuc*s with low self esteem, thats who!
Dave


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## Bullygirl807 (Jan 24, 2006)

Most people do it for ego purposes. Other things may be small that theya re trying to compensate for if you foolow what I'm saying......those big headed, big chested dogs are crosses and not purebreds. The average APBT usually weighs between 38-45 lbd. Now, I have a female Amstaff that weighs 70-75 lbs. She's a big girl !!!


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

Thanks for getting back! Ya she is a big girl eh!!! a big dog period!! But ive had alot of that and really its annoying!!! I dont care if that persons dog is 120lbs, i dont care if its a blue nose or from Texas. Thats another thing, i was to believe that there was no such thing as a Texas Red Nose pit, these people are making up breeds as they go!!! As far as knew there where... American Pitbull Terrier, Staffordshire bull Terrier, and the American Staffordshire Terrier. Now i have heard, Texas Red nose, American blue nose, Chinesse blue nose, American staffordshire bull terrier. Someone told me that i had a texas red nose and i was like " no shes an american pitbull terrier" And they argued with me till they were blue in the face!!!! It was terrible!! Then you have the people try and tell you that their dog has "lockjaw" No its just determination, lock jaw is a diesease, i knew a girl that had lockjaw. i dont know what to say to these people any more really!! :curse: Naw, not that, but i wanna tell these people to study the breed and maybe they will learn alittle bit about this great dog, instead of looking at them as trophies!!! Or money in that matter. the most a good line of pitbull down here goes for $500- $800 with papers and the whole nine yards!! But i know a girl in New Burnswick that is selling hers, with papers, shots and vet checked, but she dont know the bloodline, she told me double red nose? WTF? lol ok there, she wants $900!! she has no pedigree, no show lines or nothing. they should only go for $300, I think. I got my girl for $500, she wasnt a planned litter though, but he did want $800 for them, but her mom was a show dog and won ribbons and such, but i dont know, let me know what you think!!upruns:


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Thanks Bullygirl, I glad to see someone else say it. The people rasing large big freaking pits is ok but they are not breed standard. 35-45 is typically breed standard. Size is for those that just need it for some reason. It doesnt make the dog any stronger just bigger. Ok myabe it does in a sense make him stronger but it all comes down to heart anyways . I was at a show where a 27lbs dog pulled nearly 3200lbs. The big dogs were pulling it no prob but when this guy got up there and scrathed and dug for all he was worth the crowd went wild. It all boils down to heart. 

Now that said punks on the street wanting to fight dogs are what give Pits a bad name. I dont care the size of your dog I know several 35lbs'rs that will put a whoppin on a big dog. Again its all heart. 

Yeah people get cought up in the badboy pit menatality. I have a Pit so Im tough kinda crap. Thats just NEWBS who really shouldnt even have these dogs.. those are the ones that end up on the news and make responsible owners look bad and why we are in the predicament that we are in now legally and why they are trying to ban our breed.

I have lots of friends with big 65+ to 85lbs dogs and that is fine. Even they understand that, that is not standard. It is something breeders have done and thats ok. People who talk about how BIG their dog is probably have security issues and ego problems.

Id better quit before I get to hot.


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## Bullygirl807 (Jan 24, 2006)

A true to heart breeder is not about money. A true breeder will hardly make a profit from a litter. After he gets them vet checked, first shots and wormed he/she is debt. I have 3 pretty well bred gamedogs that came with a 6 generations pedigree and are BFKC registered and I only paid $200 a piece for them. It is possible to have a double bred pup but never heard of a bloodline called double red nose. There are old school rednoses. Trust me, I know how you feel. People down my way are just as confused as the people yuor way. All you can do is try to educate people and hopefully they will try to learn. You just have to ignore them and walk away.


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ya i know how you guys feel!! My female has 6 too, and that is a good thing, i like to know this about the dog, when i had my pupies i could tell people about them. Thank god i had that nice lady helping me out or i think one of my pups would be a statistic!! I know when i walk my dog, i dont feel tough!!! My dog is a big teddy bear, i would feel safe though i think, well i would hope!! But thanks for your feedback!!! Its nice to know that people think the same as i do!!! Thanks!!:thumbsup:


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## Mistress (Feb 25, 2006)

My APBT is about 60 lbs. She should be lighter I know... But she is spoiled... And well she has these awefully sad eyes... I try to limit the treats, I swear!


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## starlitparlit (Oct 14, 2005)

pantera2006 said:


> Hey, i thought i would start a new thread and ask you fine people you opinions.
> Ok as you know i have a 72lb male named Harley. Now i got Har by accident, i was looking for another breed cuz i really didnt know much about the pitbull at the time. But i got him. So.. as life goes, Harley grew to be about 85lbs at around 1 1/2 years old. He was a beast. But i had people tell me that " they knew a guy with a bigger pit" or "they had a bigger pit" or something about the head being bigger or neck. Why are people so competitive with their pitbulls? I dont care how big my dogs will be!! Or there head or teeth and so on!! So why does everyone else? I had a group of teenagers standing at the store with their pitbulls, tellin me to let my dog off her leash so they can fight!! WTF? My dog was NOT a fighter so why would they say that? I raise my dogs with kids. I trust them more with my kids then any other dog!!!
> But another sitution, i have a friend with a pitty and hes a big dog, but she tells everyone that her dog is bigger then mine, hes 80lbs and Har is 72lbs, but her dog looks crossbred and she has no papers with her dog, as do i. She bought her dog from a backyard breeder who did it outta his apartment, Harley was bought from a friend of my breeder. Her dog has showed agression to her children, mine, not a soul. So really if she wants a compition, then i think my dog comes out the winner!! But i dont wanna do that. I love my dogs and wanna live a life with them, so why does all this stuff matter? I dont care if your dog is bigger or smaller, white or black. If its a loving dog, THEN WHO CARES!!!


First of all, if your friend has a pit bull that is agressive to her children then, in my opinion the dog should be put down. A pit bull is not suppose to show agression toward humans. That is a horrible trait in a pit bull. I had a male apbt that was 85 lbs that came from small parents. His mother was about 45 lbs and his father was no bigger than 50 lbs. He just ended up being huge for some odd reason. None of that stuff matters though. These dogs end up having bad reputations because of people who want to show that their dog is bigger and badder than someone else's. That is why so many people fight their pit bulls today. They are ignorant and don't know a thing about the breed.


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

ya i hear ya!!! Thats what i say, but i think that she is denial. I guess i would kinda be too. Just the fact that really dont wanna believe that your Pitty could be mean!!! My pit Harleys dad was a monster pit too, he was knocking 115 easy!!! He had papers and the showed me his pedigree and everything!! But he was soo nice!! just like Harley!!!


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Champ is a mastiff pit mix, 91 lbs and severely scarred from an accident when he was a pup. punks always ask me do I fight him, what idiots.


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## Bullygirl807 (Jan 24, 2006)

Champ is a nice looking pup redog. I also have to agree with starlitpit. The only place for a human aggressive dog, is 6 ft undeer. This may sound harsh, but if anyone of my guys were to bite me or anyone else for that matter, I would not think twice to have the dog put down.


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## Stinger (Feb 11, 2006)

pantera they say caring for how big a dog or car is they make up for how small their .... ehem is (brain included). for the women who are like that i definately agree with red dog... they are insecure and envious to the ultimate. usally those are the types that end up abusing their dogs or other people. they cause the most damage. Never ever let that bother you, the worst thing you can do is smile in their face and ignore them.... ask me i became a smiling pro  they get pissed and you get to smile  also it's dangerous to let stuff like that get to you, it might effect your decisions. i've seen a lot of people destroying themself or their pets just because of that. pitiful. i just feel sorry for the dogs that are in that environment. you're confident and good for you but other people fall for it. and you can't imagine the amount. 


i hate to disagree with you guys about putting a dog that shows agression down. there are a million ways to treat dogs from stuff like that. you're pit lovers, you should know that they are the best breed to manage. you guys know that human agression is not in their blood and they do better than any other breed, yet you make me feel like you guys are just saying that. i have a bad temper, i lash out at people badly but they help me fix it then i realize with their help i could hurt someone badly so i get scared and i control it even if it kills me. get it? 
that woman didn't even have the brains to start a conversation let alone bring up a dog, that's not the dog's fault right? that can't be the only way. sorry but if i haven't seen it with my own eyes done all the time i wouldn't say anything. it happens here all the time and guess what? they become the tamest babies in the world! it's cruel to just kill em i'd rather find out why it's happening and fix it. i swear it's easy. then again i trust dogs no matter what they do and it's my opinion, no offence.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

heres the problem with that theory. Aggression is going to be a genetic trait! Thats how and why people breed. They take the best dog they have that has the qualities they want and breed that to another similar dog andthey keep going and in doing so they strengthen those traits. Now if you have a human aggresive dog, that is not normal for the breed. If it beeds those traits no matter how small or repressed do get passed on. So lets say ok you neuter or spay the dog. Ok now you just have a dog thats human aggressive and its a PIT. Thats a HUGE liability. If you ever have to go to court and they say Pit you are already guilty by association and now have to PROVE your innocent instead of the other way around. 

Ok so lets say you work with the dog and he seems ok. For years he/she is fine. One day the right stimulus comes along and whatever made the dog human aggressive years ago comes back out and someone gets bit or worse. Are you really ready to deal with the lawsuit you will get?

Im sorry but if I Have a Pit thats human aggressive it gets put down.. I just helped a friend put one down this week because of this problem. There are too many good Pits out there to deal with the bad ones. Its that simple, I love my dogs but if one becomes human aggresive, it gets a nice headmarker.

By the way there is a difference in human aggression and a dog snapping but the line is thin. If itwas a different breed and the legal situation was different it might be different story but theres no room for error with Pits!


Also on a side note as one of our members already found out, it might do some people good to actually see a Pit fight. Now Im not promoting this, but until you actually see what they can do to another living thing you just simply wont understand the damage they can do. It is a real eye opener! It makes you realize the responsibility you actually have and what the results could be if you dont act accordingly! (please dont go out and fight your dogs, thats not what im saying)


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ya i hear ya there, i always said, if ANY of my dogs bit a human and drew blood, they are done for!! I dont put up with that behaviour at all, with any breed of dog. Its not right, my buddy had a pit and he just had to put her to sleep, she turned on him and almost took away his ability to have kids!! She bit him right where the sun dont shine!! But like he said, hes glad it was him and not a child!!! So a week later he had her put to sleep!! He didnt want to risk it! I respect that That took alot of courage! I would be so upset about that well, i was, i felt bad for him. He was crying on the phone to me, he thought that he couldnt have kids, well, with alittle surgery, hes fine now. But miserable he lost his dog!


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

With me, it would depend on the situation. If they are protecting, then I wouldn't put them down. But, if they are showing agression for no reason, what choice do you really have???


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Definitely Smokey.! If you are coming in my house unanounced I WANT my dogs to get you! If you attack me, my wife or children I HOPE they bite the living crap out of you. I was talking about uprovoked attacks or bites!


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Oh ya, and with the size thing, it is really all about ego. People who don't know the breed standards believe these dogs are supposed to be huge. They think the bigger, the badder, the better. (I know badder's not really a word, but hey, I'm from Kentucky). I had an argument the other day with someone about whether or not Sadies was a terrior because she's red. They said, "Mary Jane's a terrior, and their dog is a terrior, but the fact that Sadies is red makes her a different breed in itself." Then, they started talking bloodlines and confusing bloodlines with breed. Sadies has Colby bloodlines, but she's an APBT. Colby is not her breed. I argued till I was blue in the face, and finally I was just like, "OK you stupid MF'er, as long as we're in my house, I'm right. I don't wanna hear you talk anymore so shut the f*** UP" I know the magazines tell you to be polite and tactful and direct to get your point across, but when you're dealing with ******* dumbass uneducated hardheaded country boys, you just gotta tell it how it is.


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## PittieLover (Oct 14, 2005)

Again, I disagree about human aggressiveness being a "genetic" trait. I believe that just like in people - it is their personality vs. their experiences. A genetic trait is what the dogs eye color, fur color, if they will be short or tall etc. not what they act like. :snap:


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

I guess its just a way to say they dont breed human aggressive dogs anymore


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## Stinger (Feb 11, 2006)

it's just hard that the dogs have to pay for what the previous owners did to them. maybe they should put a law on the bad owners and breeders that they should be put to sleep. then they'll think twice about abusing the dogs. 

the point i was trying to make was that there should be another way for those dogs. i've seen it done many times over here. they don't put them to sleep, they re train them with an extra amount of decipline. you won't imagine how these dogs change from primitive killer to the tame babies that we know. think about it. pitbulls were originally bred as non human agressive creatures way before the barbarian breeders bred the agression in to that.non human agressiveness would be their dominant trait no matter what. how do you know for sure that this dog is human agressive for good? maybe it was a mistake? dogs are known worldwide to be the most loyal friend a human could ever have.

oldfort, about the fighting, you have a solid point there. it's a traumatic experience for anyone to go through (i'm talking about people who have feelings and are not blinded by money). i'll save everyone the horror and try to paint you guys a picture of it. imagine throwing two loved ones and telling them "now i want you to kill yourself for me". these dogs go in not knowing why but still our owner wants us to kill ourselves, so be it. the things they endure are cruel and pitiful but they keep fighting with all their might just to please their selfish owner. i've heared stories here that just made me cry without seeing them. dogs that are half dead would get up and keep fighting proudly just cause of their owner. it just makes me angry! i can't get into more details because it hurts too much. now you guys know that when dogs play sometimes they get into a playing craze and you have to calm them down before they start snapping at everything. sometimes you get the occational playful nip right? imagine a primitive killing machine showering bites everywhere without control, but no matter what happens they never ever bite the owners. that is a miracle that not many dogs can achieve. Dior is from a long line of fighters unfortunately, but it is noticable that even when she gets crazy and plays, it's unbelievable how her coordination is. she never ever bit me! she gets less that a millimeter close but never contact. it amazes me. but then pitbulls by nature are like that. again i think that any pitbull could be like that with the right help. Definately not fighting them!

a car ran over my friend's border collie mix and got the hind legs. we were trying to get her on a piece of wood to take her to a vet, she bit me hard from the pain she was in... does that mean she's human aggressive? would they put her to sleep? no

Max my mixed german shepard bit me twice real bad. it wasn't his fault, he was playing and in a craze, i didn't calm him down so :hammer: his tooth got stuck on my pants and he got scared and frustrated when i let him loose he thought he was still stuck and he bit me.

we have many people who have human agressive dogs. they get agressive towards strangers only. we know that, so normally when we see a dog we ask the owner if they bite first. normally they're very well trained and won't bite if ordered not to. others just keep a muzzle on them when people are near. those are worst case scenarios. many dogs have been bought or adopted that were horrible! the next month you see them playing with kids in the yard. hard core training and a lot of love does the magic. we have such rare cases of dogs being put to sleep because of aggression. these are the extreme cases.

All that being said, i'm curious who decides that the dog has to be put to sleep? is it a bunch of experts like vets, behaviorists and things like that, or is it something someone decides off the bat? if it's the second one i feel sorry for all those dogs that were put to sleep for no reason. again you guys this is my opinion based on experiences. i'm sorry i brought up the horrible fighting subject but i just wanted people to feel what it's like and how cruel it is. also that dogs in that extreme condition would never bite their owners. 

Punish the people who are harmful not the Dogs who are harmed. i sympathise with all the people who lost their dogs and who have been put in this horrible situation to make that decision. sometimes a sacrifice had to me made i guess. Plus i hear there's an over population of homeless pitbulls, maybe they'll get homes i guess it's the circle of life. 

Cats are by far the scariest, unpredictable and sometimes human aggresive, do they put them to sleep too? chaos my old cat bites like there' no tomorrow all we do is feed him and back off. and Genie my fist cat looked and acted like a panther, forget the bath part! whew lool. this is honest curiousity guys.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

> (i'm talking about people who have feelings and are not blinded by money).


I hope that wasnt directed at me because if it was you have me all wrong. I dont do this for the money.

Sounds like you have been bit alot. What are you going to do when it isnt you that gets bit! Again discression is involved in determining what is human aggresion. Ok Im not saying every dog that bites a human is human aggressive. on the same hand if your german shephard bites the mailman its not the same as when your Pit does.

As far as who determines if the dog is human aggresive and needs to be put down, Me, I do.


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## PittieLover (Oct 14, 2005)

I agree with Stinger for the most part about pits or any other dogs biting. Sometimes they make a mistake, not saying mauling someone is a mistake. But there are probably reasons or circumstances that we don't understand at the time that makes them do things out of the ordinary. And I think that most dogs need another chance and very strict discipline from a professional that handles dogs like that should be able to re-teach the dog the correct behaviors. But again this is a tricky subject and I personally have not encountered a situation before. (THANK GOD!) 

But I did have a golden retriever that was a little over 10 years old at the time and these braty kids would always come over and harrass him. Well, one day the little girl wrapped her arms around his neck and somehow he managed to jerk his head and somehow caught his tooth on her check and made her start bleeding. And then her parents called animal control and he got a strike against him and if he did it again they would put him down. (which never happened again) But in this instance you would have thought by seeing her that he bit her. So again it's the circumstances in this case...

Also, I just remembered an instance where my mom found a puppy - just remember when I tell you this story he was a puppy! Well, those braty kids came over once again and started playing with the puppy and as puppies tend to do - he ended up knocking a little boy down and I guess ended up getting a cut or something on his leg. So again his parents called animal control and they came and picked up the dog and put him under qauranteen. My mom called and called all day long and was going to get the puppy and they would never give her an answer about the dog. The next day she went down to get it and they said sorry we already put him down for being agressive. Ok??! - Can you believe that!!!  :curse: My mom and sister was so upset! The pound around here don't give a damn about animals - I think they have some kind of competition or something on how many animals they can put down?! I dunno... But that was so horrible though! Some people are just so damn ignorant:hammer: ...

Sorry... I got a little carried away, but stupid and uncaring people just make me sooooo mad!


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

Thats what Im talkin about- Behavior modification. weve done it, not always successful,But it works.


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## Stinger (Feb 11, 2006)

OldFortKennels said:


> I hope that wasnt directed at me because if it was you have me all wrong.


oh god no old fort i don't even know you sweety. i was talking about the people i've seen and known and others i heared of. i would never speak about someone like that. also i was talking about the people who fight and only fight their dogs. please accept my applogy for this misunderstanding.

i know putting a dog down has to be done. just in a different way. the same way a criminal doesn't get on death row before a judge and a whole bunch of people in the jury decide after seeing the evidence against it. so that way if the owner was responsible then the owner would be charged with endagering people's lives and if the dog is gone to no return then the dog would be put down. it's only logical. not many people are experts so i think the experts should decide the fate of the dog.

again if my dog bit me or showed agression then it would be my responsibility to isolate the dog from the public untilit gets the right training and it's case would be looked into by people i know are experts. i would also make sure that people in my house would be careful not to come close until we see what's going on. if i knew my dog was like that the mailman wouldn't see him  when he dog goes to the vet a muzzle is a must and after that if the dog wasnt diagnosed with any diseases i'd take it to some trainers and get their opinion. that's how i'd do it.

this way we would avoid so many deaths and at the same time if the dog gets put down it would be put down without a doubt of it's case. making it so much easier to bear the pain of such a loss. and thoughts like "did i di the right thing?" etc...


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## Bullygirl807 (Jan 24, 2006)

Each incident has different circumstances that would need to be evaluated. I know I personally will not tolerate any human aggression in any of my pitties. I too have small children and would not want to risk them biting me, my children or anybody else for that matter. I also believe that there are reason of circumstances that we will never understand. Something triggers a dog to bite and unfortunately we will not always know the answer. My oldest female which will be 3 yrs old is now starting to become sometimey. Meaning she has never lunged at anyone or tried to bite anyone, but if she doesn't know you, she will let you know not to get too close. I look at that as her protecting her territory but about 2-3 weeks ago, my brother-in-law was outside with a couple of his friends that came down from out of town and when he alone went up to her pen, she started to growl. Now she has been raised with him and knows his scent, his voice and everything else there is to know about him. They are like best friends. Now should she take the chance on being brave and trying to lunge at him to bite him, I will be brutally honest, I wouldn't think twice about having her put down. Not because I don't love me dog but quite the opposite. She is now in danger to herself and to others. Thats just my opinion on the situation. I sure hope that I have not offended anyone by what I have said.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

over 60 is A hybrid.yea small can throw big. don't breed it if you are concerned with where the pit craze is going.shoot all biters. there is no mistake in A bite. protection is A different story. there is no validity to the blood taste crap.pits are bred for endurance power agility game heart and most importantly we ask courage of our breed. courage partially is the ability to pause and review A situation long enough to either stand ready, growl, and proceed.I am the determining factor in which direction my dogs propensity goes.no ifs ands or buts period. her fate is mine and mine alone.as OFK stated I/we determine the quality and lifespan of our dogs and when enough is enough.


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## Bullygirl807 (Jan 24, 2006)

william williamson said:


> over 60 is A hybrid.yea small can throw big. don't breed it if you are concerned with where the pit craze is going.shoot all biters. there is no mistake in A bite. protection is A different story. there is no validity to the blood taste crap.pits are bred for endurance power agility game heart and most importantly we ask courage of our breed. courage partially is the ability to pause and review A situation long enough to either stand ready, growl, and proceed.I am the determining factor in which direction my dogs propensity goes.no ifs ands or buts period. her fate is mine and mine alone.as OFK stated I/we determine the quality and lifespan of our dogs and when enough is enough.


Basically that is what I was getting at but didn't know exactly how to put it.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

the thread is good info. great that your heart is in the right place.:thumbsup:


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## starlitparlit (Oct 14, 2005)

I don't think that a pit bull should be put down if it was a provoked attack. But I have already been through putting a dog down because it attacked my mother in law for no reason at all. I was not taking a chance of my one year old baby or myself who is pregnant getting bitten by the dog. I wanted him put down because it is not a trait of the pit bull to be human agressive. If you all would have seen what this dog did you would have put him down too. Now I understand if the dog is protecting it's territory and it's trying to get at a stranger or shows agression toward a stranger but I would never tolerate a dog being agressive toward my family.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

starlitparlit said:


> I don't think that a pit bull should be put down if it was a provoked attack. .


provocation by law sets precedence for defense.therefore the two words provoke and attack cannot have association. I remember your down dog.RIP:angel: . you did the stand up thing.so much is relevant when you own A pit.loving A dog means sometimes you must make A choice no matter how painful, in the best interest of the breed.


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## starlitparlit (Oct 14, 2005)

william williamson said:


> provocation by law sets precedence for defense.therefore the two words provoke and attack cannot have association.


I understand what you are saying. If it was provoked then the dog wasn't attacking. But I think that a pit bull that is human agressive and not meaning pit bulls that were abused or had previous owners that did something to the dog, I mean the ones that are just agressive to humans for no reason at all. Those dogs should be put down.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

well, i know when i look @ maryjane's chest that if one of my dogs were to ever go after somebody unprovoked, i'd put them down. i feel guilty enough when i look @ my dog's injuries. i can't imagine having to answer for one of them doing that to a child.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

No probs and no apology necessary. I didnt get offended and I didnt think you were aiming your comments at me, I just wanted to make sure peole knew that I wasnt in it for the money.

Basically people I just want you all to understand and understand fully the LIABILITY of owning a Pit Bull these days. If the child that got the tooth caught had been a Pit instead of another breed your looking at a lawsuit and atomatic guilt. Its ridiculous but true thanks to the media and the mass idiots who believe what they hear and see on TV without doing the research themselves.
I dont want to put any of my dogs down or anyone elses. However, and I think this is really the key, If any PIT shows human aggression to me or others, such as Bullygirls was saying, I would closely watch this dog and based on what I see evaluate the dogs lifespan. Really think about how much you want to risk on this dog not doing anything wrong.
Nowadays the Pit doesnt have to bite and maul someone. All it takes is a snap or bite and your in for a long road of grief.
I realize that dogs can snap or bite that arent human aggresive and they dont deserve to be put down. I just dont want to see another Pit in the News and another well meaning PIt lover up to their ears in lawsuits just because they couldnt bring themselves to put a dog down. Just weigh it out and again only you know your dog and his behavior>

Sorry this got as long as it did>


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## Stinger (Feb 11, 2006)

it's ok. this conversation is very interesting. also helps balance extremes. extremes are never good, they sometimes blind us and our brain stops working. i like to keep an open mind. 

hey you guys can come to kuwait, here a dog is a dog. a big dog is cool if it's vicious or whatever they feel like being as long as they're big  and pitbulls are the kings! you'll love it here  

maybe we should mass media the pitbull haters right back in their face! end their rumors by stating the obvious facts till they get it right! what they say is even affecting the pitbull lovers in an indirect way. i can't stand it when they detroy the reputation of innocent creatures and the dangerous ones live to bite another day grrrrrrr :curse:  

william you have the right to your own opinion but if you were in the dog's place would you still think the same? just give it a bit of thought for pitties sakes. also again it's different according to circumstances. people who have kids have the right to worry but i would try giving it away to someone who knows the situation and has the expertise to solve that problem. if to you a dog is a dog no matter how close it gets, to others they are the children that they could never have, it's so much harder.

again i think experts should decide and not an individual opinion.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

I understand your feelings. I have had pits for 28 years. they've been gamedogs. show, weight pulling and somewhat protection. not trained but in A dependant situation so to speak.I've had dogs bite before. good/acceptable bites and put down bites.I as OFK stated feel confident in my decisions in the past. I will do it again their is such A thing as A bad dog. you will see them.your heart will go out to the dog mine does,yet in order to promote our breed we must also be responsible. no matter how painful. good luck in never being put on the spot. it is A lonely place to be. it hurts.


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

Wow, i walked in on this at the wrong time again!! But i had an interesting thing happen to me on mon. I was visiting a friend, she was gone and her cat was in labour, so she wanted me to keep an eye on her. so as i was over there, i brought my 3 year old son to see the babies and play with the dog. Well.. the dog is a 80lb pitbull and he was in the cage. kieran, my son, was walking around while i was at the stove writing a letter to them and there was a chair in front of the cage. Kieran was singing "twinkle twinkle little star" and he went to go sit up on the chair. Well, the dog Bared its teeth, snarled and jumped at the cage and bit the cage!!!!!! My head spun so quick that i think i caught whiplash!! Kieran jumped of the chair and looked terrifyied!!! He said to me, "mommy, doggie mean" Now my concern is, what if he wasnt in the cage? What would have happened to my 55lb son!! Would the dog have bit him? I think so. I do know this, any dog, no matter what breed, if they hurt my children, i will kill it. No waiting on nothing!! I will kill it!!! There is no way that i will put a dogs life above my kids!!! But, when they got home i let them know what happened, and they did nothing!!! I would have been pissed if that was my dog!! That dog should be muzzled. I know one thing i will not bring my son in that house with that dog there, and thats sad!!


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## Stinger (Feb 11, 2006)

one of the ways that people train their dogs to be mean is by keeping them in a cage and sort of bug them. another way is by the leash. it just provokes them sometimes. also your kid was a stranger to the dog correct? you are in it's territory while it's caged up and the dog probably didn't think of the song as a song. the tone probably triggered something. if your kid was introduced to the dog and socialized with it even from behined the cage i don't think it would have reacted like that. the owners know their dog better so they have the right to decide. i would never put dogs first before children, that's for sure. if i had kids and my dog showed some agression then i'll just give her away to someone who can help her. again this is my opinion. each case is different from one person to another and from one dog to another, depending on the situation.


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

ya i agree with that, but i gave a puppy away about 9 months ago. Now the reason that i gave her away was she didnt like kids, at all, and i got 3 of them so i found a man with no kids and told him to take her. Well, one day he let the dog out and she ran at a 5 year old girl and gave her 5 stitches across her cheek!!! I really do not know why the dog hated kids? Just one day she started snapping at mine and growling so i decided that she should go to some one without. Well, that was a bad idea cuz she still bit someone!!! And it was a child to boot. So know that is why i totally agree with putting them down when they show agression. But the thing that gets me is i never treat any of my dogs differently at all. Harley is the best dog that i know and i could trust him with my life!! But that dog, i dont know? She was a mean dog!!


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## Stinger (Feb 11, 2006)

you're right some dogs are just weired and moody, that would probably be scary because they become unpredictable. you never really know. maybe those dogs were mistreated by a kid once thus the reaction to kids. i've seen some rescued dogs react to a person badly out of the blues, i was told that some people have similar scents to those that harmed them before. therefore it triggers a bad reaction. i don't know if that's true or not, i never looked into it. i have seen rottweilers (sorry to mention breed name but they are infamous here for that) who bit their owners out of the blue for something that they did years before. they held a grudge and a similar situation triggered that. so i guess the scent thing would make sense too. to me kids are the most important beings in the world and nothing should come before that no matter what, i agree with you a million percent on that.:thumbsup:


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ive had people look at me funny, i take my pup out for walks with my kids, (harley is toooo much to handle with 3 little ones too) But i have people stop me and ask me, "you have a pitbull with children"? Seriously i just wanna haul off and smack people!! It sounds bad, i know, but what about the idiots with kids and guns? Or the numbnuts with drugs and kids? But peopl HAVE to single me out? Thats crazy, i think people have nothing better to do then put their noses where they dont belong!! If i thought that my dogs would hurt ANYONE, they would be gone!!!! Sorry, i love them, but love people more!!


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

get A herness and A wagon/cart. let the dog do the work. your kids will just love the hayride.


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

Hey thats a good idea!! Two jobs in 1!!! :woof:


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## Marie (Mar 12, 2006)

*my pup*

When I first got Sarge I had never owned a pit before and like the rest of the world, I heard all the news about pit attacks. I think I've always known that a dog will act as well as it is being treated, if your'e mean the dog will be mean and etc. I was still a little concerned so I made a point to make sure my puppy was around good people and let strangers pet him. He is now nine months old and is very friendly and loveable. He is also a very protective dog and makes sure no harm comes to me. He is also my best friend.
P.S.
chihuahuas bite and attack more people than 
any other breed of dog. Where's their bad rep?


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## jbyrdslady (Mar 31, 2006)

*Bigger isn't always better...*

You know, You should tell your friend that having a bigger dog isn't always better then having a well proportionate size dog. Her dog is at a higher risk to develope many heath related complications as it gets older. I hope that this never happens but it is better to be aware and plan for his future health. Just a thought that I wanted to share...
All the best,
Jbyrdslady


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## Trinity912 (Apr 13, 2006)

chaches over compensating big headed fools who aren't in it for the love of the breed. these "competitive" types are exactly why pits have a bad rap. And this is exactly why I am all for the new backyard breeding laws begining to pass through legislature!


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

OldFortKennels said:


> No probs and no apology necessary. I didnt get offended and I didnt think you were aiming your comments at me, I just wanted to make sure peole knew that I wasnt in it for the money.
> 
> I know you are not!! YOu got a nice looking dog and thats a good quality in a breeder!! I have seen some bad looking dogs!! and i have had some bad dogs, one was put to sleep after i gave it to my bud!! That sucks!! BUt thats bad breeding for ya!!:cheers:


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## ILUBMYTuFfY (May 1, 2006)

*wuts up wit you*

Ok you say you dont care but all youre doing is bragging about your dog who cares if it paperd or wat eva its a dog!!! ya i kno your dogs big but DANG yoneed to not get so big headed!


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

ILUBMYTuFfY said:


> Ok you say you dont care but all youre doing is bragging about your dog who cares if it paperd or wat eva its a dog!!! ya i kno your dogs big but DANG yoneed to not get so big headed!


who are you talking to??


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

well I have taken in abused and dumped dogs with my Mama since I was 13yrs old. We never put down a dog because it bit, we would work with it sometimes for months. I was 18 or 19 when I had to put down a dog it was awful. He was an abused Dobie I was the 5th owner in as many months. He was doing great but the stupid thing I did cost him his life. I wored for a vet we had a shihtzu that need a blood tranfusion Belva was a match so I used him the vet mixed up the needles and with in a month Belva had luekimia and I had to have him put down. Enough about that since that time I have had to put down other not because they (mix breed) were human aggessive but they went after my goats and chickens. These animals could not defend themselves against the dog. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I know that it was the only thing you could do.


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## pantera2006 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ya dude, who are you talking too?


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