# New Pup, What Do U Think?



## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

I'm Considering Adding Another Pup To The Family Soon. Two Options I Am Considering Is A Pup Whose Father Is A Champion Weight Puller. I've Seen Him Pull Over 3000 Lbs In 90+ Heat Before And Heard Of Him Pulling Much More. He Is 1/4 Camelot And 3/4 Dagger.70-80lbs .the Mother Is Mealers Blue, 85-95lbs. I Think Denton,brooks And Garner Are On There Also. And Yes I Plan To Work With Him At The Pulls.
Next Is A Red Rednose. His Mothr Is A Red Rednose Out Of "game Lines" About 5o-60lbs. The Father Is A Crawford Rednose W/boudreaux Rocky Biter And Lenz Susie Ii In His Background, Guessing 70-75lbs. 
All Dogs Mentioned Are Adba


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

i like the dagger and camalot blood,wheres some photos...Dog sounds like a good prospect!!


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

*Ok*

I'll Get Some Pics In The Next Few Days And Post Them On Here, Once I Fugure That Part Out.


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Id go with the Rednose. Personally I dont like Dagger, its just like Whopper, not APBT.


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## APBTenthusiast (Oct 31, 2006)

OldFortKennels said:


> Id go with the Rednose. Personally I dont like Dagger, its just like Whopper, not APBT.


:stupid:

I am not a big "know-it-all" when it comes to bloodlines, but I know enough to understand APBT's were not and still should not be 80-90 lbs.


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## GSDBulldog (Dec 22, 2006)

I would go with the dogs whose breeding compliments your needs the best. As others have said, the Dagger blood isn't what one would call proper-APBTs. 

Best of luck, and post pics.


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## bully (May 27, 2006)

I'd also go with the rednose but I tend to favor the game bred apbt's.


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## GSDBulldog (Dec 22, 2006)

I got a question for the OP. What's a Crawford Rednose?


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Foster another thing to consider is this. If you are wanting to do WP in the ADBA or UKC winning is based on body % pulled. My dog Rebel during competitve season weighs in at 55-57lbs. Your Dagger/Eddignton/Whopper dogs (while not true APBT) will weigh in excess of 80 to 100+lbs. 

So lets look at this. If I have a good puller at 56lbs and he pulls 4500lbs he has pulled 80.36 times his body weight. (4500/56=80.357)

Ok if you have a SMALL Dagger dog at 85lbs and he pulls the same weight its only 52.94 times his body weight. To beat my dog the Dagger dog would have to pull around close to 6900lbs.

If was a 90lbs dog hed have to pull over 7200lbs
100lb dog 8000lbs.

So yeah you can pull more weight with the big dogs but they have to pull ALOT more to get the better body percentages. They dont normally win if you have a smaller good pulling dog. Rebel in his first year on a good track pulled close to 5000lbs and Bailey my little 42lb dog took the trophy for body pound because she pulled 74 times her body weight!


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

id give a arm and leg for good whopper blood,but would also be honest about it and call it what it is,a oklahoma bulldog,or just a bandog...Youve got to look at it like this,the dog can do more than weight pull,if your interested in a catch dog,they work great,also protection is a option.Ive seen a very good whopper dog at 70 pounds and this dog could hold its own in any activity..


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## KingofthePIT (Dec 6, 2006)

I agree with GSDbulldog. Go with whatever fits you and your life style best.


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

*...*

I Still Have To Get To A Scanner To Put The Pics On. As To What A Crawfords Rednose Is... Its A Bloodline A Lady Has In Northwest Arkansas. The Way I Understand It She Has Been Breeding For Awile And Only With Red's. Redrock Has Boudreax Rocky Biter And Lenz Susie II In Him. I Dont Know Much About The Line Other Than It Is Game. What Info Can U Bestow Upon Me That U Have On These Two Particular Dogs. And Also What Do U Know Of The Camelot, Mealers Blue Lines, As Well As The Dagger. Besides That It Is Whopper~like. The Pics I Have Seen Of Wanna Be A Whopper Make Him Out To Be Much Larger Than This One.


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

Here is what I know, maybe it can help you ...

Rocky Biter/Lenz: Comes from Kay & Alton Lentz of White Oak Biter Knls in Arkansas. Based on almost pure Boudreaux blood, but not really considered a "game" line by most.

Whopper: Whopper was a mixed bred dog. At 110lbs, some say he was the result of a brindle male pit bull bred to a red/rednose female French Mastiff. Others say he was an AmBull x FM mix & yet others say he was a mix of all 3. Only 2 ppl I know of knows for sure what his breeding is, that being Mrs. Eddington & R. Kunz, but neither one is talking. However, no matter how he is bred the consensus is that he is a mixed breed.

Anyway ... the Whopper line is excellent for weight pull, one of the best lines out there if you don't mind owning a mutt. There is a purebred pit bull Eddington line called the While line. It isn't as popular, although it preforms just as well.

Dagger: A weight pull line that is generally considered by most to be a result of a Presa x pit bull cross. Does well in pulling but not as good as Eddington.

Camelot: Curs bred for size & color. No health testing, no temprament testing, no game testing & few to no titles. One of their main stud dog Camelot's "The Duke" was a terrible man-eater.

Mealers: Curs bred for size & color, except these dogs are blue & have no man-eaters in the line that I know of. But still no tests & few to no titles.

As a side note, if a pup has all these bloodlines in it's ped, it is likely to be an unremakable animal that takes after no certain bloodline. It is too scatterbred. You might get a big lazy dog who can't pull worth a flip, like a Mealer dog, but you can't show it b/c it looks like a Whopper dog, it's temp is a little sketchy around ppl like a certain Camelot dog & it ends up being off the hook dog aggressive like a Boudreaux dog.

In short you'd end up w/ a 100lb + dog you can't show, pull or trust around strangers or other dogs. Is that what you want?? It may not come out that way, but it is certainly a possibility.

As one poster said previously, find out what your goals are & then go from there. Just as an example, if you want a pull dog get a heavy While or Whopper dog. If you want to show in ADBA conformation get a tight Klassic K-9 dog or if you want to show in UKC get a tight Lar-San dog.

Don't be scared of getting a tight bred dog. Alot of ppl think inbreeding or linebreeding is bad, but this is how you lock in desired chartacteristics. Scatterbreeding rarely achives anything as the gene pool is literally too "scattered" to bring any desired charateristics to the fore.

However, a dog that is inbred or linebred has a more limited gene pool & thus your chances of getting prospective working dog can be better. A heavy Whopper dog is more likely to have Whopper's pull abilities. A dog heavy on Int'l CH. Red Rocketeer is likely win in th show ring.

The problems only come in when you're breeding junk. Since inbreeding & to a lesser exetent, linebreeding does lessen the gene pool, any little nasty recessives hiding in the line are more prone to come out. But if you're running a clean line you should have no problems. So don't let a dog who is inbred or linebred scare you. In all reality, those are the dogs who are better gamble for a working prospect.

BTW, I forgot - if you just want a pet, check out Pit Bull Rescue Central (http://www.pbrc.net/). They can match you w/ any pit bull you would like. They have all colors, all body types, all tempraments & all ages.

Well, this is all I know. Hope it helps!


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

that was a grand slam abk,good posting!!!


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## ABK (Dec 30, 2006)

Thank you cane. I just wish more ppl could recognize my genius!  

(Before anyone gets angry, that was a joke, BTW!)


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

ABK said:


> Thank you cane. I just wish more ppl could recognize my genius!
> 
> (Before anyone gets angry, that was a joke, BTW!)


It is strange concerning the dagger line of apbt,they definetly come from enriched blood,and any one who believes diffrent needs a head check,but anyway..
If they are presa crosses,which they very well could be,how do even the females come out the size of large male presas,bishop is 140 pounds,maybe a touch of bullmastiff or tosa could achieve that size along with the presa and performance am bulldog,who knows,they are cool dogs ill say that much[so dont get all over me for it,i said there cool!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: ]I seen on the breeders web site one of the dogs is for sale for 12000$ i believe.Alot of kemp blood in there pedigrees,maybe that blood line holds the key or hung papers....


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

> As one poster said previously, find out what your goals are & then go from there. Just as an example, if you want a pull dog get a heavy While or Whopper dog.


While your post was very good, from personal experience I cant agree totally with this statement. Every year the ADBA show in HICKORY NC is the LAND OF THE GIANTS SHOW!!!!!!!!! Due to the nature of the track there are alot of big WHOPPER/EDDINGTON/DAGGER dogs and we have always beaten them with the little dogs. All they win are MWP. Im not saying that there arent some out there, James Bates has some good ones but to say that if you want a WP dog go with those lines, I cant whole heartedly agree.

Also as ABK mentioned White Oak Biter has some TIGHT bred BOUDREAUX dogs but you will PAY for them!


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

I cant speak for either the ukc shows or the adba shows but in the apa and iwpa dogs are competing in a weight class with dogs of there own size,so a 5o pound dog and a 150 pound dog have nothing to do with each other,also your pulling against diffrent breedswhich makes it interesting.ab vrs apbt,st bernard vrs mastiff etc....It all comes down to personal prefrence,i like big functional dogs and dont care what breed of dog it is as long as it works,but thats just me..


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

See I cant vouch for those associations. The ONLY ones we pull in are the ADBA/UKC/NCK and sometimes the AADR.

All shows are breed specific. While the dogs do pull in their respective weight classes there are 4 trophies for most weight pulled based on body pound percentages. There is the Male/Female for 54lbs and under and the M/F for 55lbs and over.


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

OldFortKennels said:


> See I cant vouch for those associations. The ONLY ones we pull in are the ADBA/UKC/NCK and sometimes the AADR.
> 
> All shows are breed specific. While the dogs do pull in their respective weight classes there are 4 trophies for most weight pulled based on body pound percentages. There is the Male/Female for 54lbs and under and the M/F for 55lbs and over.


why dont you pull in either the apa or iwpa?those are big orginizations in there own right,its cool american bulldog vrs apbt,battle of the titans,lol....
I do feel you oldfort,it sucks that those whopper and dagger lines are able to pull in the ukc and adba seeing as how they are just a little out of standard..


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

*About Time*

thanks for all y'alls input. as it turned out i wasnt able to get one of the pups at that time. still got my boy Oz though. a buddy of mine did get one pup from each litter though. he works them but doesnt really have the time for show/pulls. bruno is the chocolate one, a little over a year old. he's dagger/camelot/mealers blue. he's a real laid back goofy dog. he tends to act all de de de. big boy, ironically the smaller one, is a laid back good boy too. he's a little brighter though. he just under a year old. i have seen one of his litter mates pull over a thousand lb's already. got a lil work horse in him.

big boy


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

*The Other*

HERES BRUNO


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

*And Finally*

and heres my boy. OZ. 72lbs of boudreax[sp]/jeep. but yet he's not DA. he wont start it is what i really mean. he got 2nd in his last show by pulling 1962lbs. the ab that beat him came from texas. he also got 2nd in % with 27x's. i think that #'s correct, i dont have a calculator or that much paper handy.

walk tall and carry a big stick









pullin'


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

*ok im i lil picture happy*

finally figured out how to post pics and making the most of it before i forget










who says white boys cant jump


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

HEY THATS AWSOME!!!!! GReat pics, glad to see you out there having fun with your dog!!! THe pic pulling the boat was great.


Also I reread most of this thread, it was good to see people debating without it getting ugly!!


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## cane76 (Aug 16, 2006)

nice looking big dogs,i love it!!big and not over done....


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

thanks guys. yeah this thread was alot more congenial than say the 'puppies' one. but that one is very intertaining.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Great pictures Oz is doing amazing things. I guess WHITE boys can jump. Those are awsome pictures. I love them!!!!

Sorry it didn't work out to get a puppy at that time but I hear their are some Tigerstrip brindle that will be here in a few months maybe you could one of those.hehe.

Yes I just reread tis thread and it did remain remarkablly civil. Good job everyone.


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

sorry but i have to pass on the tiger stripe brindals. the father of bruno was one of those and there were a couple in the litter. i just didnt realize what i was seeing at the time. i'll know better from now on. i'll post morre pics from time to time now that i figured out how to post pics


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## gamecock10 (Nov 26, 2006)

The only thing I would take exception to is the Boudreaux line not being game. Floyd is legendary and so are his dogs. Although he has been out of the "game" for years and years, tight Boudreaux blood is still one of the most desired out there. :thumbsup:


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

white oak biter kennels here in arkansas is sposed to have some of the tight boudreaux blood ur talking about. the red pup has their lenz susie II and b. rocky biter in his ped. His true 'colors' are yet to be seen. not that i mean fighting him. As to Oz, everytime he got into a scuffel i would do my best to correct his actions. almost all his scuffels where with his littermates. their owners didnt do anything to correct the behavior. and the ones still alive are very DA. they dont play well with others. i have heavily socialized him, with fun shows, weight pulls and just generaly hanging out. its like these kids nowdays, it depends on how u raise them (to a certain extent).


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## FOSTER (Nov 14, 2006)

i might add Oz is not registered. no paper = no proof, as to his bloodlines.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Well you may not have proof as what he his bloodline is but you still have a n amazing looking dog. Sounds like you did good with raising him too it is a lot of hard work to end up with a descent dog or child but in the end it is all worth it.


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