# Why does my dog have no drive?



## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

So, I basically know he isn't bred of quality, he came from a byb and is mostly amstaff/pitter staff, But it seems like he has the drive of a lazy English bulldog. Sometimes he will focus on a task for 10 minutes and poop out, or basically loose interest. He is healthy, utd on all of his shots and worming. The vet has said he looks great on all of his check ups. He does sleep a good bit still. He is a couple of days over 4 months old. I know he is still a puppy, but I figured he would at least want to play 24/7. I'm not saying he's lethargic all the time. But I've seen bulldogs this age that have the drive of a Ferrari. Non stop at tug a war etc. should I be worried? Or do I just have a lazy bulldog on my hands?

Here's just a few pics of today, just to demonstrate his lack of interest in his surroundings. Honest opinions.


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## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

Cain is SUPER lazy lol. Unless you bring out the flirt pole. He doesnt care to play tug or anything. Never really has. Hes always been a lazy couch potato unless its the flirt pole. Occasionally he wants to play chase inside but its rare.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Am staffs and bullies arent known for their drive... you cant compare him to a real bulldog. Hes not 1. He is a am staff mix(allegedly)


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

I know xactly what it is!


He's still pissed caused you cut his ears!!


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Oh no, that's not true. I didn't cut his ears, a veterinarian did. lol


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

AmStaffs have drive. It's the Ambullies that have been bred more for the laid back personalities. BUT I will say I have a friend who has a gamebred APBT and he is always so calm and laid back. Some dogs just have really chill personalities... Lol


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

::::COACH:::: said:


> AmStaffs have drive. It's the Ambullies that have been bred more for the laid back personalities. BUT I will say I have a friend who has a gamebred APBT and he is always so calm and laid back. Some dogs just have really chill personalities... Lol


Yea, this is what I was thinking. I've always heard amstaffs had a pretty good drive. I was thinking the bullies and oeb's were the real chilled ones.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I have even met some hyper AmBullies  so it's a dog-to-dog case. But yes generally speaking bullies are a little more laid back.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Raiderblue said:


> Yea, this is what I was thinking. I've always heard amstaffs had a pretty good drive. I was thinking the bullies and oeb's were the real chilled ones.





::::COACH:::: said:


> I have even met some hyper AmBullies  so it's a dog-to-dog case. But yes generally speaking bullies are a little more laid back.


My 9 month old kangaroo spawn did not get that memo...


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## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

Carriana said:


> My 9 month old kangaroo spawn did not get that memo...


Kangaroo spawn. That is hilarious.


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## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

Carriana said:


> My 9 month old kangaroo spawn did not get that memo...


Kangaroo spawn. That is hilarious.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

An am staff has drive compared to what? A bulldog? Not even close... theyre a show dog not a performance dog. Their drive is no where near the drive of a high quality bulldog.... tho I will agree all dogs are different and individuals will not act exactly the same just bcuz of breed....


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## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

Yea when I think drive, Amstaff is NOT what comes to mind. Now mind you I have a friend on FB that has some very nice Amstaff that work hard and have drive but they are the exception lol

I have a decently driven blue mutt as well, but he cant hold a candle to the APBTs here, not even close, the old dog has more drive than him lol


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Just Tap Pits said:


> An am staff has drive compared to what? A bulldog? Not even close... theyre a show dog not a performance dog. Their drive is no where near the drive of a high quality bulldog.... tho I will agree all dogs are different and individuals will not act exactly the same just bcuz of breed....


They have a high drive compared to other breeds from what I hear, of course nothing compares to that of a game bred apbt or something of that nature. I'm sure we all agree on that. But yes, all dogs have different personalities for sure lol. Cuz mine sure is a lazy bones.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

If u say hes a bulldog, an am staff mix, and a pitter staff, wjy are u now comparing them to other breeds... stay in that realm. No point in trying to say an am staff has more drive than a pomeranian.(thats what ya opened up with the "compared to other breeds").. we're supposed to be talking bulldogs(and breeds derived from)so ill reiterate.... hes supposedly an am staff mix, am staffs arent known for their drive.


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## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

He is typical of his breeding, honestly.


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Just Tap Pits said:


> If u say hes a bulldog, an am staff mix, and a pitter staff, wjy are u now comparing them to other breeds... stay in that realm. No point in trying to say an am staff has more drive than a pomeranian.(thats what ya opened up with the "compared to other breeds").. we're supposed to be talking bulldogs(and breeds derived from)so ill reiterate.... hes supposedly an am staff mix, am staffs arent known for their drive.


Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you to comprehend, I meant compared to other bulldog breeds. (With the exception of a true apbt).


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## pookie! (Jun 20, 2011)

No, Amstaff are low man on the totem pole 9 times out of 10 if we are talking about all bully breeds lol but your dog isnt even an Amstaff, its a mutt of unknown lineage, so....


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

What kind of drive are you wanting? There are different kinds of drives.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Raiderblue said:


> Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you to comprehend, I meant compared to other bulldog breeds. (With the exception of a true apbt).


Lol yeah sorry there mr expert but wrong once again...


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

pookie! said:


> No, Amstaff are low man on the totem pole 9 times out of 10 if we are talking about all bully breeds lol but your dog isnt even an Amstaff, its a mutt of unknown lineage, so....


His lineage is known, in process of getting his papers. He's mostly amstaff, esp on his mothers side. I've even posted a link to his sire somewhere on this site. Thanks for your presumption though. Back on topic, I guess I'm seeing mixed opinions. Maybe my dog will gain drive as he matures, but as of right now he's a couch potato.


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

Raiderblue said:


> His lineage is known, in process of getting his papers. He's mostly amstaff, esp on his mothers side. I've even posted a link to his sire somewhere on this site. Thanks for your presumption though. Back on topic, I guess I'm seeing mixed opinions. Maybe my dog will gain drive as he matures, but as of right now he's a couch potato.


I'm sorry but if there is Amstaff and APBT in the papers you have a pitterstaff and its a mixed breed dog. And if you pup doesn't have the drive you want now, it probably wont have it later either.


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

APBTN00b said:


> What kind of drive are you wanting? There are different kinds of drives.


Mostly just a drive to want to play lol. Not sure exactly what to call it. Tug a war, flirt pole, one day even a spring pole. As of right now he shows no interest in anything of that sort.


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

Raiderblue said:


> Mostly just a drive to want to play lol. Not sure exactly what to call it. Tug a war, flirt pole, one day even a spring pole. As of right now he shows no interest in anything of that sort.


You can try a 'training' session that involves taking the bait and treating. But it doesn't necessarily bring up drive. It just teaches the dog that you want it to go after the bait. Also normally drive shows up really young and is played upon then. 9 months old, IMO, is a little too old to be trying to work on drive.


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

APBTN00b said:


> I'm sorry but if there is Amstaff and APBT in the papers you have a pitterstaff and its a mixed breed dog.


Yes I know this, I was just stating to the prior poster that his lineage is not unknown.


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

Raiderblue said:


> Yes I know this, I was just stating to the prior poster that his lineage is not unknown.


Well ... then how are you getting papers?


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

APBTN00b said:


> You can try a 'training' session that involves taking the bait and treating. But it doesn't necessarily bring up drive. It just teaches the dog that you want it to go after the bait. Also normally drive shows up really young and is played upon then. 9 months old, IMO, is a little too old to be trying to work on drive.


I'm going to research some good info on this, thanks. He just turned 4 months old.


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

Raiderblue said:


> I'm going to research some good info on this, thanks. He just turned 4 months old.


my bad. I though he was older lol!


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Lol yeah sorry there mr expert but wrong once again...


I'm by no means an expert, just didn't know an amstaffs drive was perceived as that low compared to others. But, now I know. I learn something new everyday. But what I have learned from my short time being here is, your the biggest know-it-all on this forum. If someone doesn't side with your opinion, you get a little whiney. Always got something to say too.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

He is very young, it takes time to find what fires him up. He's only 4 months. My dog didn't want to flirt pole at that age. By 8or9 months, they go nuts when they see it coming out. They can go all day.


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Yea Im also thinking this. I hope your right, I want an active dog lol


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

Hey slick, what have you tried so far?


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, I just tried tug a war and a flirt pole with his favorite stuffed animal. To be honest some days he takes NO interest what so ever. Then other days he will go half effort on both and get pooped out after 10 minutes or so. I want to eventually build a spring pole for him, but like others have said, I guess if he ain't got it, he just ain't got it. Time will tell I reckon.


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

Well it takes alil time to find out what he wants to go after. You just cant give up!

Git you a piece of hide, put a bit of lard on it! Anything that will peak his interest. Hell, find a bitch in heat and rub her but with a rag! If he dont chase that then you gotta gay dog! Stuffed animals dont do nothin but make a mess if he catches it.
MAYBE HE HAS A CONDITION CALLED LOW-T.HAHAHA.JK
Really tho, you aint the only one with this little bump in the road!
Just keep at it. He'll wake up. I got 1 that wont touch a spring pole. But will work your but off with a flirt pole.


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Just tap pits, no need to send me threatening pm's. Keep it classy bud, and on the boards.


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

welder said:


> Well it takes alil time to find out what he wants to go after. You just cant give up!
> 
> Git you a piece of hide, put a bit of lard on it! Anything that will peak his interest. Hell, find a bitch in heat and rub her but with a rag! If he dont chase that then you gotta gay dog! Stuffed animals dont do nothin but make a mess if he catches it.
> MAYBE HE HAS A CONDITION CALLED LOW-T.HAHAHA.JK
> ...


Hahahaha, awesome!

I am going to try the hide routine though. Maybe he will like a spring pole one day lol.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

What threatening pm? The 1 telling u u dnt know shit so take after ur dog and pipe down? Yep stand by it... ur just anither know it all argumentative noob who dont know his ass from elbow... 


Do not come out here and lie sayin I threatened u again...


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## STiLL WILL (May 1, 2013)

All dogs are different. You just haven't found what's irresistible for him yet...you'll know when you've found something that hit the ON switch in the dog. At 4 months, keep your expectations low. Some pups are just more fiery than others---that's genetics.

I've had a dog that wouldn't even walk near a spring pole, but would knock a wall down to get to their favorite ball. 

I've had a dog that I wasted tons of $ on just finding toys that would get him going---just to find out his "thing" was sticks and branches, whether it be bitting them to shreds, jumping up and hanging off them, or bringing them to me at random.

More important at this age is shaping them for obedience. Mental workouts are healthy for pups too. Don't forget to reward good behavior. :cheers:


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

STiLL WILL said:


> I've had a dog that I wasted tons of $ on just finding toys that would get him going---just to find out his "thing" was sticks and branches, whether it be bitting them to shreds, jumping up and hanging off them, or bringing them to me at random.


This is what I'm afraid of is blowing lots of money to find his niche, but it's crazy you say that about the sticks and branches, because this is one of the few things he finds intriguing!


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Our girl wasn't all that interested in most toys that way until about 8 to 8.5 months. Currently she is obsessed with the spring pole! It's a recent development though so don't give up hope. Your pup is still very young and has lots of time to develop interests in various activities.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Whatever, AmStaffs, Staffy Bulls, have a heck of a lot more drive than the average dog. I'm not comparing them to APBTs but they definitely are when it comes to comparing with regular dogs. At least all the ones I have seen and met in person. To each their own. Maybe I have just met the "rare" ones.... Lol!


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

First, I am just going to politely disagree with JTP once again. And once again call JTP a punk bully.



APBTN00b said:


> I'm sorry but if there is Amstaff and APBT in the papers you have a pitterstaff and its a mixed breed dog. And if you pup doesn't have the drive you want now, it probably wont have it later either.


I don't quite know how to take this.. Ill just say, do some more research through time with many different dogs and then think about your results. Drive CAN come later. And Pitterstaff? That one is just weird. :flush:



Raiderblue said:


> Mostly just a drive to want to play lol. Not sure exactly what to call it. Tug a war, flirt pole, one day even a spring pole. As of right now he shows no interest in anything of that sort.


Its cool brother, you want to have fun with him :woof: He will get in your groove. Do as welder and stillwill suggested and try different things, find something he wants bad! A hide, an antler, a rope, Ive got one will chase a rope sun up to sun down and could care less about a toy or a hide.. so to each their own.



welder said:


> Well it takes alil time to find out what he wants to go after. You just cant give up!
> 
> Git you a piece of hide, put a bit of lard on it! Anything that will peak his interest. Hell, find a bitch in heat and rub her but with a rag! If he dont chase that then you gotta gay dog! Stuffed animals dont do nothin but make a mess if he catches it.
> MAYBE HE HAS A CONDITION CALLED LOW-T.HAHAHA.JK
> ...


:goodpost:



Just Tap Pits said:


> What threatening pm? The 1 telling u u dnt know shit so take after ur dog and pipe down? Yep stand by it... ur just anither know it all argumentative noob who dont know his ass from elbow...
> 
> Do not come out here and lie sayin I threatened u again...


bully bully bully internet bully! ha ha , please... you aint never touched a dog with drive.. don't speak on the subject. Just go stunt in your closet full of kicks elsewhere.. :thumbsup:
btw.. first Jordans I bought were 12 bucks right off the line, :rofl:



Raiderblue said:


> This is what I'm afraid of is blowing lots of money to find his niche, but it's crazy you say that about the sticks and branches, because this is one of the few things he finds intriguing!


Well dude.. you gotta spend some time and money to make your dreams come true.. If you want to play all day, and you want him to be excited to join, find his interest... good luck!


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

::::COACH:::: said:


> Whatever, AmStaffs, Staffy Bulls, have a heck of a lot more drive than the average dog. I'm not comparing them to APBTs but they definitely are when it comes to comparing with regular dogs. At least all the ones I have seen and met in person. To each their own. Maybe I have just met the "rare" ones.... Lol!


Theres a "amstaff" on my couch right now that would "drive" circles around most people dogs on here, and be right there with any APBTs.. 
So Im with ya


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## Madison (Jul 1, 2013)

In the same boat, Madison has absolutely no prey drive, no toy drive, but will do anything for food. It has it's pros and cons. I good thing about that is walking with her is amazing she ignores other dogs (if they're calm). Oh look a squirrel! Who cares she says. Can you believe I didn't have to get her the ultra tough kong, she has the red one and its in tact. She will only go for it if it's stuff with food. Another good thing is we are still in cold as hell season so I don't have to go out for exercise with her everyday a week or two without exercise won't affect the way she acts. Lazy Punk Ass dog.

She will play fight though but I guess that's a must for most dogs.


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

Come meet my UKC APBT a.k.a. "AmStaff" I'll show you no drive. JTP!!! I am getting a little sick of seeing your NOOB ass talking about shit you dont know cause YOU have never had your hands on a real APBT. You are just repeating what you've read and been told as said you do nothing but bully people. This is EXACTLY why I stay off the boards anymore cause of BS like know nothing noobs preaching to know nothing noobs about not knowing anything!!! Its completely ignorant conversation.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I have never met an Amstaff that didn't have drive! Maybe not as crazy as an APBT can be but still a lot of energy, drive and willingness to please. I love AmStaffs...I'd own one.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

::::COACH:::: said:


> I have never met an Amstaff that didn't have drive! Maybe not as crazy as an APBT can be but still a lot of energy, drive and willingness to please. I love AmStaffs...I'd own one.


I agree with coach. saying the drive is more or less than any other dog/breed is difficult. Every dog is different. I know an APBT with less drive than my neighbors collie does that make them not their breed? Not every dog I gets every trait of every breed. Plus they all bulldogs APBT AST American bully. At least that's how I feel.

OP I agree your pup is still young Mel pretty much played for 10 minutes and slept for a few hours. Then played and slept again. He didn't get his drive until closer to 9 months old. I think you should give him time to grow and be a pup. Then you can see what interests him and go from there instead of buying a bunch of toys and not having him like them.

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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Thanks y'all, I guess time will tell, I'm going to try all of the options suggested. Who knows, one day he may catch fire or I'll find his extreme interest lol. Appreciate it guys


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

MSK said:


> Come meet my UKC APBT a.k.a. "AmStaff" I'll show you no drive. JTP!!! I am getting a little sick of seeing your NOOB ass talking about shit you dont know cause YOU have never had your hands on a real APBT. You are just repeating what you've read and been told as said you do nothing but bully people. This is EXACTLY why I stay off the boards anymore cause of BS like know nothing noobs preaching to know nothing noobs about not knowing anything!!! Its completely ignorant conversation.


That one of those blue pit bull u breed there peddler?

YOU HAVE NOTHING THAT COMPARES TO ANYTHING ON MY YARD PEDDLER


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

And hj, disagree or not, the am staff doesnt have comparable drive to a real bulldog ... not that ive seen any way...


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

Alritey then!!!!!!! Yall stay on trac here! Good answers aint gonna come from banging on folks! Have an answer or suggestion or take it somewhere else!

Ok, we peachy keen now rite? Good!


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## welder (Jan 25, 2013)

Not on this thread! Take it to the drama thingy!

After that i dont care!


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm working today so don't have the time to really go into much however perhaps drive, performance and working needs to be broken down in another thread.

This was a good laugh.


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

JP I will have to disagree, and only because I am one of those who do not believe the APBT and the Amstaff >TODAY< are the same breed of dog. I know at one point, yes they were. But due to different ways of breeding, the amstaff and apbt are now different. I do not like it when people try to say they are the same dog, They don't even remotely look alike if you nit pick (Amstaffs are stockier) and you cannot breed the two together and get anything remotely that looks like a pure APBT. Yes, they are called pitterstaffs now, as silly as it may be to you. I have done my research .


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Who r u disagreeing with?


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

APBTnoob-- no one is disagreeing with that  almost everyone here views APBTs and AmStaffs as two separate breeds.


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

APBTN00b said:


> JP I will have to disagree, and only because I am one of those who do not believe the APBT and the Amstaff >TODAY< are the same breed of dog. I know at one point, yes they were. But due to different ways of breeding, the amstaff and apbt are now different. I do not like it when people try to say they are the same dog, They don't even remotely look alike if you nit pick (Amstaffs are stockier) and you cannot breed the two together and get anything remotely that looks like a pure APBT. Yes, they are called pitterstaffs now, as silly as it may be to you. I have done my research .


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

The apbt and ast are the same dog genetically, the only thing that separates them are functions and ability.

Any physical differences is a byproduct of years of breeding away from original functions and towards a performance animal to the show ring.

A "traditional" bred ast can very much resemble a bulldog, let's not forget the purpose of an apbt and prodigies surrounding genetics. I can point to apbts that look like hounds, bulldogs, almost Labrador ish etc.

Don't get caught up entirely on what a registry says is form, form is behind function


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> The apbt and ast are the same dog genetically, the only thing that separates them are functions and ability.
> 
> Any physical differences is a byproduct of years of breeding away from original functions and towards a performance animal to the show ring.
> 
> ...


Preach reverend..

but wtf is a pitterstaff>????


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Show and go.... apbt x am staff


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

Just Tap Pits said:


> Show and go.... apbt x am staff


this is where it gets confusing..

aren't APBTs dogs game dogs bred to game dogs,>?
and people cross and inbreed and line breed and otherwise.

"breed to the dog, not the paper"?

eventually, you create a difference.. eventually. As another here has said, JTP
bring yourself here! and see the "drive" of my Amstaff.. My bulldog.,

heres another for ya 



so take a wild guess smarty pants...


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

::::COACH:::: said:


> I have even met some hyper AmBullies  so it's a dog-to-dog case. But yes generally speaking bullies are a little more laid back.


Wish i owned one lol

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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

U asked about the term I told you what is considered one... Idk what the rest is about but we get it... u got the best of everything....


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

Just Tap Pits said:


> U asked about the term I told you what is considered one... Idk what the rest is about but we get it... u got the best of everything....


If you're talking to me.. I never have claimed to have the best, having what others say you " can't or don't" have is what I love. Cause that's what I have. 

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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

Obviously missed the whole "cant say every individual falls into the "norm"" part that I stated towards the beginning of this debacle... 

I wont deny SOME Am staffs prolly do have drive comparable to the apbt but the MAJORITY doesnt.. hell rat terriers can have imsanes amounts of drive but I wouldn't say they're equal to a high quality apbt...

If ur does great for it but thats 1 out of a country full... would u say every am staff has ur dogs drive? Or the majorty of the quality show stock does?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Pitterstaffs are mutts or "cross bred " or just bulldogs..

Depends on how you view genetics, functions, history and modern day apbt and ast. 

None are correct or wrong, it will vary depending on the dog and pedigree.

This is why I don't get caught up on what is in a pedigree as much as what the dog proves as worth. Unless breeding you should evaluate your stock based on what the dog does now not based on the generations before. (However not limited)

A good dog can be ruined, a bad dog can be a diamond in the rough. 

Pedigree can only show you what is behind the animal and what to expect of a breeding or pup, a dog has to prove itself to keep history and name sake alive.

I know hj and others know what is typical , however what is drive? What is defined as such?

Border collies, Labradors, German shepherd, dogos, Danes, etc can all possess high drive through abilities. Whether agility, prey drive, toy drive, hell it's been covered and most know the list of types.

It is not exclusive. If we were on the topic of game, which there is already a few excellent threads out there covering this as well, we can talk far more exclusive.

Bulldogs are unique and uncanny in what can be achieved, however this discussion is not about those in exclusion.

I'd be interested to know what some on here define as drive, because it's odd reading.


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

The term Drive in itself really doesn't have a true definition it is specified in many different aspects such as prey, toy, play , hunt, fight, etc, etc. All of which explain what that dog is specifically driven to do whether that be one of those or many of those but, in the end just defines what stimulates that animal.

When I speak of drive in general I am talking about any kind of positive drive. Yes there are positive and negative drives! (ex. of neg.: "fear driven") Anyways when I speak of drive in general all there is to that is that the dog is undoubtedly determined to complete the task at hand. Example, with a flirt pole or any object to promote prey driven behavior the dog is determined to catch it regardless of failure to do so or fatigue. All this is is the willingness to complete a task not to be misconstrued as to be put in the same class or definition as gameness.

Just my 2cts.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I know Shannon's dog blue nose Bella is pitterstaff and so isn't one of Lisa's dogs. I forget which one Tempest maybe? That dog is in my mind for some reason beautiful amazing dog from the pictures. I have heard the term used a lot to describe dogs with scattered bloodlines of AST and APBT.

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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

pitterstaff = cur

aint no other way around it............

to get a game apbt, 

he needs to come from a family of game apbt's


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

this isn't a conversation about game, gameness or APBTs...

this is a convo about drive, from what the OP wanted to know we are simply talking about motivation to interact in a physical environment. Period. 

I don't think the OP cares what activity he is able to participate in with his pup, just that the dogs motivation to join in is the question.

Some folks opinions are that bullies, Amstaffs, Pitterstaffs, whatever are just lazy, and lack motivation or drive. Which some of us know for fact as Bull ******.

Another statement was that crossing an APBT line with an AmStaff line creates a "pitterstaff" and they do not in any way resemble an APBT.... lmfao

I myself own a dozen APBT x AmStaff dogs and the best of you couldn't tell me which was which in comparison to the pure box bred dogs of mine.. 

And surfer, Ill politely disagree that you cant have a game dog through a breeding where both parents aren't game bred dogs ie APBT x AmStaff.


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

Exactly so drop it Jeep.


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

APBTN00b said:


> Exactly so drop it Jeep.


Drop what? The fact that AmStaffs and Bullies do have drive? And that it has to be determined on an individual basis....

Youre not helping the OP by stopping truth..


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

This topic is about DRIVE....what do you not understand APBTNOOB? :hammer: this isnt about gameness....or who can excel best at the task given....excellent post HeavyJeep! Growing I had a lab/beagle mix along with our couple APBTs and let me tell you that lab/beagle had so much drive it was crazy! Sure the APBTs could outrun her and probably woop her bum in any sport but this dog was so determined to please and was OCD about balls. She was my agility dog! I had her DIG tunnels, go after foxes, uproot roots, climb trees, run for miles after the back of our pick up truck...and at the end of the day she would fall asleep with that ball in her mouth. She would do ANYTHING for that ball. She is now pushing 17 and when I go and visit my folks out west, she is still the same ol gal she was! Pretty much completely deaf. She hobbles after that ball and it takes her a while to go get it, if you hide it she won't rest her old body still she finds it. 

This dog of mine had DRIVE, which is all the OP wants for his dog, just some level of drive. Maybe not as much as her or other dogs, but that motivation is what he is looking for


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

I think I've been half asleep the past couple days. Sorry. Ben running around the house like a chicken with its head cut off with kids and dogs.

I never compared drive to gameness.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Give this dog a drug test!


I'm joking man. Honestly, some got it and some don't. Think at this point, for a petbull, I'd rather have a lazy one. I have a 10X Gotty that just never stops!


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Ah ok now that makes sense  hehe! Get some rest! upruns:



APBTN00b said:


> I think I've been half asleep the past couple days. Sorry. Ben running around the house like a chicken with its head cut off with kids and dogs.
> 
> I never compared drive to gameness.


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

::::COACH:::: said:


> This topic is about DRIVE....what do you not understand APBTNOOB? :hammer: this isnt about gameness....or who can excel best at the task given....excellent post HeavyJeep! Growing I had a lab/beagle mix along with our couple APBTs and let me tell you that lab/beagle had so much drive it was crazy! Sure the APBTs could outrun her and probably woop her bum in any sport but this dog was so determined to please and was OCD about balls. She was my agility dog! I had her DIG tunnels, go after foxes, uproot roots, climb trees, run for miles after the back of our pick up truck...and at the end of the day she would fall asleep with that ball in her mouth. She would do ANYTHING for that ball. She is now pushing 17 and when I go and visit my folks out west, she is still the same ol gal she was! Pretty much completely deaf. She hobbles after that ball and it takes her a while to go get it, if you hide it she won't rest her old body still she finds it.
> 
> This dog of mine had DRIVE, which is all the OP wants for his dog, just some level of drive. Maybe not as much as her or other dogs, but that motivation is what he is looking for


This is an absolutely awesome post! Still has a lot of heart at 17 years old? Amazing!


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

reddoggy said:


> Give this dog a drug test


Hahahaha!!


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Now I will say most on here are simply pet owners, so it would benefit you to have a relatively low drive animal. 

There is also those that believe their animals are high drive but honestly aren't. For instance, if a dog barks or chases animals or at other dogs it doesn't equal high prey drive, there is a significant difference in all scenarios.

Not to mention, drive is something that can be built up providing the dog has a foundation to work with.


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## APBTN00b (Jul 8, 2013)

Apollo Loves Rope. Anything Rope. The second he sees a rope (not leash) he tries to catch it. He loves his spring pole and will run from across the yard just to attack it. If the Rope gets caught in a branch, he is jumping and trying to figure out how to get it down. Focused, desire, want. That's what I personally consider drive. The rope could be laying still and he will still get the rope because thats what he wants. 

He also has a stuffless fox toy in the house. If I hide the toy he will search and search and search and search until it is found. If I hang it, he tries and tries and tries to get it. 

Flirt pole, he will chase and chase and chase, cutting corners and jumping on a whim to try and catch the bait. He wants it, is focused on it, desires to have it. 

He also has a strong play drive. And that is a lot of the puppy in him. he wants you to chase him, he wants you to play with his toys, tug, and throw things for him.  I hope this makes more sense than my last post. I've just been so exhausted.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

all i can say is, 

in the over 1,000 i've seen trying to show their worth,

not once did i see anything but an apbt come out on top.................

i saw some of different breeds try to compete, but to no avail.

drive and gameness are not the same,

but drive = desire,

and if you dont want to be there, you will be looking a way to leave,

which in turn equals cur...

there is a total package that equals the ultimate gamedog,

not just one thing,

1st-gameness, 2nd- ability, 3rd- natural wind, 4th-bite,

those are the qualities of a true APBT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

notice how i put 'bite' last,

if you can breed for the other qualities, bite will come.

not every apbt born is the next 'world beater'

truth is.............. some just dont make the grade.


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

I agree 100% with your post surfer,
my questioning isn't around other breeds, but a game dog bred to a cur can still make a game dog? yes?

So in the right genetic matchup, a game dog bred to a "show" stock dog, could produce a game dog... right?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

HeavyJeep said:


> I agree 100% with your post surfer,
> my questioning isn't around other breeds, but a game dog bred to a cur can still make a game dog? yes?
> 
> So in the right genetic matchup, a game dog bred to a "show" stock dog, could produce a game dog... right?


With the right foundation I'd breed a cur to game dog before breeding game to show stock.

All you'd be doing is taking a step backwards, assuming we are talking about a dog where majority if not all of the past 4-6 generations are made up of show dogs.. and another bred specifically for []. It would be inconsistent and washing out.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

you mean a cur, from game blood?

or you mean a cur from a bunch of other curs, because if thats it, then i wouldnt do that.

and i wouldnt breed to a show dog either,

i reckon i have scruples, even if i had to pay for a good stud,

i would do that,

but the longer you are around the better choices you can make,

look at jtp.

6months ago, his outlook was different than it is now,

thats called learning,

when you think you know it all, its time to get out.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

surfer said:


> you mean a cur, from game blood?
> 
> or you mean a cur from a bunch of other curs, because if thats it, then i wouldnt do that.
> 
> ...


Had good teachers.... 3 of yall really put some time in to me...


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

A game dog isn't a part of the equation for the OP and the thread. Asking if his dog might develop more drive as he grows isn't asking if his dog is game or even have anything at all to do with being game. How about some ideas on how to build drive once the dog gets older that weren't already suggested? Not all dogs that have drive are game dogs. That's not what he is asking about, lets stay on topic or start a new thread to debate drive vs game please.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

A dog is born with it, or it is not...with the exception of medical issues, nothing can add to the drive of a dog. 
Can't give a lazy dog drive if it was born without it. 
Same with gameness...it is born with it, or it is not. Can't make a game dog out of a cur. 

It's called nature.


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

ames said:


> A game dog isn't a part of the equation for the OP and the thread. Asking if his dog might develop more drive as he grows isn't asking if his dog is game or even have anything at all to do with being game. How about some ideas on how to build drive once the dog gets older that weren't already suggested? Not all dogs that have drive are game dogs. That's not what he is asking about, lets stay on topic or start a new thread to debate drive vs game please.


Thanks Ames, lol. I just want my dog to show interest in his toys guys. I know he isn't or ever will be close to "game". Although I do enjoy the read.


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## Just Tap Pits (Mar 4, 2013)

If u want to spark toy interest, do like welder said and get a hide. Once he gets into it take it away. Dont scold him just end play time. It'll make him look at the hide as a high value item. Cut out all treats and reward him with the hide...


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## Cain's Mom (Oct 25, 2012)

Raiderblue said:


> Thanks Ames, lol. I just want my dog to show interest in his toys guys. I know he isn't or ever will be close to "game". Although I do enjoy the read.


I may have no seen it but is your dog interested when YOU play with him? Cain doesn't like toys unless my husband or I are playing with it with him. He likes us interacting with him with his toys. My other 2 will play by themselves or with us but Cain won't unless we are.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Goemon said:


> A dog is born with it, or it is not...with the exception of medical issues, nothing can add to the drive of a dog.
> Can't give a lazy dog drive if it was born without it.
> Same with gameness...it is born with it, or it is not. Can't make a game dog out of a cur.
> 
> It's called nature.


To an extent I agree, although not entirely. I have taken a black mouth cur bulldog mix from having little prey drive to a consistent catch dog. Now I wouldn't use a dog like this as a lead however no problem as a secondary.

I agree a dog had to have the foundation to build upon and by no means is there a substitute for working with an animal where it comes naturally, however it isn't impossible to achieve.

Toy drive is easy to build up by comparison.you start with core and foundation, exercise.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

g-mon, 

i do agree with you 100%, either your born witjh it or your not................

some may get a dog that they think is showing some drive,

until they do see one with some drive, then they will understand what 'drive' is........


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Just Tap Pits said:


> If u want to spark toy interest, do like welder said and get a hide. Once he gets into it take it away. Dont scold him just end play time. It'll make him look at the hide as a high value item. Cut out all treats and reward him with the hide...


Good advice, I've been rewarding him with treats, I can see where that's been a bad idea. I've researched the hide and such, looks like it would appeal to him. This may be a dumb question, but, where can I buy hide from?


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## Raiderblue (Jan 1, 2014)

Cain's Mom said:


> I may have no seen it but is your dog interested when YOU play with him? Cain doesn't like toys unless my husband or I are playing with it with him. He likes us interacting with him with his toys. My other 2 will play by themselves or with us but Cain won't unless we are.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yea I play with him. Tug a war and such, he still loses interest very quickly though.


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## HeavyJeep (May 7, 2011)

and some just want for their pets to play with them, like the dude that started this thread folks, more than once we've covered the ""....

Raider , man... the world is your oyster, find your dogs desire and run with it,,,


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

HeavyJeep said:


> and some just want for their pets to play with them, like the dude that started this thread folks, more than once we've covered the ""....
> 
> Raider , man... the world is your oyster, find your dogs desire and run with it,,,


Great post, HJ!

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