# Sticky  Layman's logic...



## ThaLadyPit

Okay everybody, I was presented with a question from a less than knowledgeable person, pertaining to the breed(s) as a whole. With all the BSL trying to be enacted, and the breed being in the wrong hands (byb types), where do you see this breed in the next 10 yrs, or even the next 20 yrs? Do you think our beloved breed will meet its demise and be on the brink of extinction, or do you think we will overcome BSL like the Bloodhound, Rottweiler & Doberman did? 

Now, I must say, that unless we're able to get into every uneducated, prejudice person's head and make a change in their opinions for the good, and we allow the breed to continue on a downward spiral in the wrong hands, then we will have to face our breed's extinction. Now, I want to hear from all of you. 

Let's get some real conversation about our dogs going here!


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## angelbaby

I can see the breed getting better in the medias eyes when this fad wears off and the "wrong" owners move on to the next big breed. Its hard to say though if that will happen in the next 10 years though. Id like to hope they overcome BSL but I think its something that will always be there, even with the rottys and dobys I think they still deal with it they just arent the ones in the spot light right now. Im not sure any of that ever goes away because there will always be bad owners who put there dogs in the spotlight to be critisized.


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## ThaLadyPit

Okay, with that said, how do we do more to turn the breed image around? Everyone wants to fight BSL, but not everyone takes the time to sit down and write letters or emails in this day and age because we're too consumed with our personal lives, and playing with our dogs and kids and dealing with life's circumstances. So, how should we go about this, turning the breed's image around, not only in the media's eyes, but the general public's as well?


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## rodrigo

I am not an expert in canines, but I do watch for patterns for a living and apply to every day life.

To make the pit bull breed extinct is near impossible simply because of the numbers and the fact that the government would never pursue door to door searches in a sense.

patterns also dictate that much like the "enemy #1 " mentality we seem to have every decade or so would imply that this will cool off some.....but this breed has gotten more negative physical attention than others imo

now here is another variable that is NOT a repeating pattern. this BSL blankets now multiple breeds, apbt, bullies, am staff, etc etc...... there is no way the laws will be absolute and simply do away with a species if u will ( i know breed isnt as dramatic lol)


i think we need to worry about today....we do everything we can for our dogs.....tomorrow is not where the fight takes place....today is the day we worry about .

my 2 cents




edit****** 


i havent volunteered nor made some moves to get physically involved cuz idk how or maybe too busy w/e.....but a) i take my dog to work twice a week to educate the 30 people i work with.....and change their perception B) trying to do on fb a photo of the week with some absurd made up pit bull story and share it with as many people as i can.


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## ThaLadyPit

Even though you can't make the breed extinct, per say, you can reduce the breed to almost extinct. Therefore, once the breed is low in numbers, then people will forget and wont want to breed, support, or even acknowledge its existance anymore, and then you will have extinction. So, therefore, the breed must be promoted in the same venues and avenues as they are promoted in a negative light; tv commercials, internet, movies, etc., this way, swaying the opinion of the general public in a positive fashion. So, in my opinion, the fight of today will lead to the preservation and ensure the existance of our breed tomorrow (in the future). 

Rodrigo, it's great that you're taking small steps to educate the people you work with, and I appreciate that. Now, if you could expand, and maybe go outside that 30 person group, that would help that much more. Maybe those 30 people could pass on the knowledge they've acquired to someone less knowledgeable, hence spreading the word that much more.


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## rodrigo

well thats the plan with facebook.... we all are limited in the tools god gave us....i was blessed if u could say with a pretty unique sense of humor that can bring laughter to a rock basically.......

so last week i posted this on fb :

"Fox Channel 11 reports another deadly attack by a ferocious mean pit bull, the victim : Francesca Villareal comments "...... de dog yumped on mai dohter and nao her faice is fool off espit!!! ......" ......mrs. Villareal was too emotional to comment further, no doubt soap will HAVE to be used ......... what else are we going to have to hear to put a stop to the madness!!!! The suspect is at large and here is a sketch .....witnesses described the dog as a "Gangsta Pit".....no... doubt this dog listens to rap and hip hop......... this world is coming to and end.

Thank you for reading , please read up on BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) that makes people like me and my dog victims of ignorant people that buy into the news and NOT questioning how often OTHER dogs maul as well.....but everyone loves to watch a nice bloody story , just like YOU stop to see that accident on the fwy......NEWS IS A BUSINESS NOT FACT....ITS A TV SHOW AND MAJORITY OF THE MORONS TAKE IT AS FACT.

Please come meet my dog Samson and you will learn what a real American Pit Bull Terrier is and what kind of temperament they actually have.See More
- with Erin Duffy and 24 others."

and below a pic of my puppy wearing an adidas hat on sideways.....and sent it to about 30 people and asked them to send it to 3 each and so forth....ill do one with a bogus story every week wiuth a new cute pic that will apply to the story...and idk...thats a beginning....im in socal...los angeles...would love to meet up with others and do stuff together to show we have angels not demons










if any of u wanna friend req me to share the pix and "news story" http://www.facebook.com/http://www....01410&ref=tn_tnmn#!/profile.php?id=1512901410


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## ames

What bothers me the most on trying to educate is people usually doubt you, or think my dog must be special when I talk about how great he is. When some people meet my boy, they then think he is not the norm of the breed. That he IS special. I try and get them to understand that although I love my dog he isn't special to anyone (of course he is too me). That this is the way most pit bulls should behave. THEN I have to explain why there are so many pit bull type dogs. I think that is the hardest things to overcome is convincing people there are multiple breeds. I mean I have seem some boards where people still think AmStaff and APBT are the same breed, let alone AMBully. 

Until anyone meets a pit bull first hand, they form many opinions about them. I take my boy to work, a few people now love when he comes instead of being afraid as they once were. Sadly I think it can change person by person. I know rotties and dobermans and chows' (and a few others) are not allowed where Pit Bull Type dogs are, they are still under BSL around me and treated the same as pit bull type dogs are. I don't see anything changing with them and I don't think the fight will ever end for the breed in my lifetime anyway. 

So basically change one person at a time and one day enough people will be on "our" side, lol.


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## rodrigo

^^^ +1 .....


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## zohawn

i think if you want to move the breed out of the thug steriotype then we need to stop doing things like pit bulls and parolees. cant believe people volunterily put the dogs in this kind of light with those people. the people who run that should do something like pit bulls and wounded warriors etc. there are better stories, from people who arent absolute turds. not to mention this breeds been around for how long...the whole thug thing with apbt's is new.


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## rodrigo

well.....exposure is positive on that show. if people just take the title and dont watch....then wtf....


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## zohawn

rodrigo said:


> well.....exposure is positive on that show. if people just take the title and dont watch....then wtf....


same thing can be said about the dogs, an hour and youll see the bites etc are bs - thats the stupidity of the general public. they cant solve their own problems so they need the cops do it, they take your freedoms to make the job easier...................thats why the u.s. is where its at. the fad needs to die, period. as long as theres shows, especially with " bad ass" parolees, itll always be the same-idiots want these dogs for the wrong reasons...and then those idiots breed garbage and lump theyre ish with good sound dogs and everyone suffers.

BSL is not from dogmens dogs, or dogfighters dogs. its from the general public!


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## ames

zohawn said:


> i think if you want to move the breed out of the thug steriotype then we need to stop doing things like pit bulls and parolees. cant believe people volunterily put the dogs in this kind of light with those people. the people who run that should do something like pit bulls and wounded warriors etc. there are better stories, from people who arent absolute turds. not to mention this breeds been around for how long...the whole thug thing with apbt's is new.


Maybe by the name only, which is how my dog is judged if someone hears about a pit bull they judge. The thing is that's what the show is about. Its about misunderstanding the breed and how parolee's are also misunderstood and not always bad, just like pit bulls are not always bad and can be rehabilitated. If people don't take time to learn that I guess it would be bad, but I think that show does a lot more good than bad. Especially when they talk about respecting all breeds of dogs... I think it helps the image more than hurts it, being associated with people who are paroled to do better, why else would they be on parole.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella

Pit bulls and parolees is doing more for the breed than DMX ever did. DMX started showing them in several of his videos and in one video "what's my name" had them setup like he was gonna fight two dogs. I hardly ever saw the breed present here in the city up until he became popular. I think the rap era had alot to do with all the wanna be thugs getting into this breed and underground fighting them. As long as there are thugs and scumbags.....I don't ever see this breed getting out of the spotlight. I mean I hate to be "negative nelly" but lets be real.....this breed attracts ALOT of negative attention and for all the wrong reasons. I used to watch all those animal cop shows on animal planet back in the day. What were their shows based out of five or more different states? Shit, about 90% of all the rescues had to be pit bulls or pit bull type dogs. I would like to see BSL diminish and people be more responsible with their dogs but I don't think I will ever see it my lifetime either.


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## ThaLadyPit

rodrigo, i like the fake news story approach you're taking, and i think it can help some. Amy, i can understand your frustration, but if we don't continue to educate, even one person at a time, then we're basically laying down instead of standing up & fighting. I'm thinking, if we can erase the stereotype, we can put the breed in a better light. But, there inlies the question... How do we get rid of the stereotype? 

My suggestion is we go after the 3 biggest venues of negative exposure, i.e., the news, the movies & the internet. We need to counteract every negative thing with a positive thing. If we see a news story talking about the vicious attack on a person, we counteract with a positive story of a therapy dog, or every day dog performing an abnormal feat (not a staged event, but if your dog has protected a child or family member, etc.). It may seem difficult, but i'm sure we can do it. 

Bella (sorry, dont know your real name), I can understand your point of view also, but i do believe we can overcome the stereotype, and all that goes with it, if we honestly try. Not saying that any of us aren't, but if we band together, and follow the creed of this website, then it can be done. Increase awareness, Promote responsibility, and do what needs to be done.

My point being, I feel like we're preaching to the choir here on the forum. Sure, we have new members join on a daily basis, but with all of us knowlegeable folks, always having the same discussions amongst ourselves, we're not really educating the masses. Our approach to harping on the new folks who join, mainly the close-minded, inhibits our ability to really spread the word and truly show our breed for what it is, to the ones who need to know.


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## aus_staffy

I'd actually like to see these dogs in lower numbers if it meant that the ones that _are_ around are owned by people who know what they're doing. No dog parks, no rampant breeding (including cross breeding without a reason) and no reason for the dogs to get into the news.

We all like to blame the media and governments for BSL but if there were no incidents involving pit bull type dogs there would be no reason for it. If you starve a fire of oxygen it goes out. Same thing here. If you starve the media of incidents then they have no negative stories and the government doesn't get pressured into implementing things like BSL. Eventually the media finds something else to blow out of proportion.

Of course this doesn't solve the problem of people mis-identifying breeds. I'm not sure that can be really educated effectively though because if people aren't interested in dogs they won't care about the differences between breeds. Kind of like my wife and cars. All she sees are different colours. Unless people are interested in something they won't take the time to learn about it.


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## ThaLadyPit

Aus, you have a very good point mate, and i definitely understand where you're coming from. So, how do we find a way to make it interesting enough? And, how do we cut off the oxygen supply, as you say?


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## aus_staffy

ThaLadyPit said:


> Aus, you have a very good point mate, and i definitely understand where you're coming from. So, how do we find a way to make it interesting enough? And, how do we cut off the oxygen supply, as you say?


Unfortunately, I'm not smart enough to answer either of those questions completely.

I don't think you can force somebody to learn something they have no interest in. The way I do my small part is by answering people's questions about my dogs as best I can and trying to make them understand that they aren't just any old dogs and have specific requirements because of their breed type.

For example, one of our friends asked me recently if it was cruel to keep our dogs crated while we were out of the house. They were very surprised when I answered by saying "Nitro, in your crate" and watching him come inside the house, open the door of his own crate and go lay down inside it. I then explained that he wouldn't do that if he didn't like the crate.

As to your second question, I think that will be much more difficult to achieve. As it stands now there is a dog available to any moron who wants one. There are some great breeders out there who have screening processes in place and make every effort to ensure the homes their dogs go to are safe and suitable. But for every one of those there are probably ten BYBs who don't know or care where they offload their pups.

So unfortunately we find ourselves back to square one.


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## rodrigo

I think to ensure no incidents would never happen again is unrealistic, ....that's basically telling me that if there were no idiots in the world this wouldn't happen....welll ya... but u cannot exterminate half the world killer lol

i think like everything in life is not what you know but who you know..... we first start by seeing who has a pit bull and has the respect of an audience.....then u appeal to that person to see if they are into the breed enough to fight for it and bring attention to its struggle....


thats one of many ways we can perhaps make our own news....of course aside from my super cool channel 11 news lol


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## ThaLadyPit

aus_staffy said:


> Unfortunately, I'm not smart enough to answer either of those questions completely.
> 
> I don't think you can force somebody to learn something they have no interest in. The way I do my small part is by answering people's questions about my dogs as best I can and trying to make them understand that they aren't just any old dogs and have specific requirements because of their breed type.
> 
> For example, one of our friends asked me recently if it was cruel to keep our dogs crated while we were out of the house. They were very surprised when I answered by saying "Nitro, in your crate" and watching him come inside the house, open the door of his own crate and go lay down inside it. I then explained that he wouldn't do that if he didn't like the crate.
> 
> As to your second question, I think that will be much more difficult to achieve. As it stands now there is a dog available to any moron who wants one. There are some great breeders out there who have screening processes in place and make every effort to ensure the homes their dogs go to are safe and suitable. But for every one of those there are probably ten BYBs who don't know or care where they offload their pups.
> 
> So unfortunately we find ourselves back to square one.


Lol at not smart enough Aus. While I can appreciate your response with the example of your dog kenneling up on his own, I don't necessarily feel that's educating someone on our breed, aside from the fact that they can't be left alone unattended, which is definitely a major factor. My shelter mutt would rather go in his kennel than lay on the couch sometimes. A kennel just goes back to instincts, it acts as a den, a place of solice, comfort and safety in the dog's mind. Please don't take that the wrong way; I just mean we should be educating more about the different breed types currently in existance, and the differences between them. I feel we should be more open about how dangerous the breed can be when in the wrong hands, bred improperly (talking about unstable temperaments and genetic health problems and such). But, you're on the right path.



rodrigo said:


> I think to ensure no incidents would never happen again is unrealistic, ....that's basically telling me that if there were no idiots in the world this wouldn't happen....welll ya... but u cannot exterminate half the world killer lol
> 
> i think like everything in life is not what you know but who you know..... we first start by seeing who has a pit bull and has the respect of an audience.....then u appeal to that person to see if they are into the breed enough to fight for it and bring attention to its struggle....
> 
> thats one of many ways we can perhaps make our own news....of course aside from my super cool channel 11 news lol


Rodrigo, you're right in the statement that we can't completely eradicate the problem, but we can take action to bring the numbers down. I believe we can get through to the BYBs by beginning with our reputable breeders. I realize that the reputable breeders breed for themselves first, in hopes to produce something better than what they've already got on their yard, but then things happen, go awry, and those dogs bred with a purpose still end up in the hands of people who just want to breed because they've pointed or championed a dog out in the show ring, with no real reason other than to breed. We preach that a person shouldn't breed unless the dog has proven worthy by being titled and tested. But is that really a good enough reason anymore? It starts, I feel, with the so-called reputable, responsible breeders. Like a funnel, it rolls down from there. I know we have a ton of BYBs out there, but think about where they got their dog(s) from. At some point in time, the dogs originated from a reputable breeder.


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## rodrigo

the numbers was something like hundreds of breeders in socal 15 years ago....now we have over 10,000 breeders..... WWIII seems like a more realistic approach lol

idk i look at shelters and i see 2 breeds....pitbulls and chihuahuas....both hated for same reason.....man killers lol

oh snap i need to come up with a costume for samson...i gotta do another "breaking news" in a day or two


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## ames

I agree we are preaching to the choir, but one day a few years back I was one of those clueless, I know more and more if I speak to someone it usually takes a few times to get in their heads. As far as a bigger scale, sorry i don't really have any ideas and can you please run for office after you fix this one so your brain can be put to great use for the masses lol 



rodrigo said:


> the numbers was something like hundreds of breeders in socal 15 years ago....now we have over 10,000 breeders..... WWIII seems like a more realistic approach lol
> 
> idk i look at shelters and i see 2 breeds....pitbulls and chihuahuas....both hated for same reason.....man killers lol
> 
> oh snap i need to come up with a costume for samson...i gotta do another "breaking news" in a day or two


If you ever want to steal some pictures of my boy you are welcome too, if you ever need other models lol You should use a watermark so people can't repost without it. Maybe you could put gopitbull.com on them or something so if someone sees the pic they may want to come learn? With permission from Dave, et all of course. Just trying to see how to get more people to the church


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## ThaLadyPit

lol @ running for office, Ames. I don't think i'll go that far, but it would be beneficial if we had some politicians on our side! You've actually got a great idea about rodrigo using the site watermark, unfortunately, the link for the albums is broken  

Rodrigo, I'm sure the number of byb's is up everywhere, not just in Cali. Of course, I'm thinking we should look at this as a WWIII of sorts. The byb's would fight us, but we should fight harder. 

You know the saying "two heads are better than one"? Well, I'm thinking if we all put our heads together, then maybe we can come up with some good ideas to meet the legislators and byb's with plenty of resistance to spare. But, the trick is, we all really have to be for the same cause, and all truly be dedicated to such cause! I hate where our breed is potentially headed (down the drain), and would love to see a major turn-around in the mindset of officials, legislators, and the general public. This begs another question... How far will you go to protect/defend the breed? Better yet, what would you NOT do for the breed? Where do you draw the line in the fight for our dogs?

While we're at it... Looking for opinions here... What was the catylist that turned our dogs from all American, presidential dogs to thuggin', drug dealin' type status symbols?


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## rodrigo

ames said:


> I agree we are preaching to the choir, but one day a few years back I was one of those clueless, I know more and more if I speak to someone it usually takes a few times to get in their heads. As far as a bigger scale, sorry i don't really have any ideas and can you please run for office after you fix this one so your brain can be put to great use for the masses lol
> 
> If you ever want to steal some pictures of my boy you are welcome too, if you ever need other models lol You should use a watermark so people can't repost without it. Maybe you could put gopitbull.com on them or something so if someone sees the pic they may want to come learn? With permission from Dave, et all of course. Just trying to see how to get more people to the church


ill use any pic that has some type of clothing that is negatively portrayed.... example...i was thinking about wrapping a lil white towel on Samson s head and putting a "glock style" BB gun i have since i was a teenager and calling him a "pit terrorist " and make some fake story about terrorism on the streets of Los Angeles....lol

i mean if u guys give me pics that are not just a dog with a collar i can spin anything into a funny story...i am a great story teller and have both great humor and crazy imagination.

as far as giving props to go pitbull ...sure...this is the only forum i belong to....and i learn daily so giving exposure to forum and maybe curiosity is all good.

if u guys wanna help me with pics ill make up any story.

let me go try out some costumes on mr APBT lol


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## rodrigo

ThaLadyPit said:


> lol @ running for office, Ames. I don't think i'll go that far, but it would be beneficial if we had some politicians on our side! You've actually got a great idea about rodrigo using the site watermark, unfortunately, the link for the albums is broken
> 
> Rodrigo, I'm sure the number of byb's is up everywhere, not just in Cali. Of course, I'm thinking we should look at this as a WWIII of sorts. The byb's would fight us, but we should fight harder.
> 
> You know the saying "two heads are better than one"? Well, I'm thinking if we all put our heads together, then maybe we can come up with some good ideas to meet the legislators and byb's with plenty of resistance to spare. But, the trick is, we all really have to be for the same cause, and all truly be dedicated to such cause! I hate where our breed is potentially headed (down the drain), and would love to see a major turn-around in the mindset of officials, legislators, and the general public. This begs another question... How far will you go to protect/defend the breed? Better yet, what would you NOT do for the breed? Where do you draw the line in the fight for our dogs?
> 
> While we're at it... Looking for opinions here... What was the catylist that turned our dogs from all American, presidential dogs to thuggin', drug dealin' type status symbols?


catalyst..... a) dope slingers b) gang members that think a gun or a dog take place of your fist (because most are cowardly kids and grow up behind a gun or a dog. c) movies d) fad of the idiots

as far as how far i would go?....if my city banned APBT from my zip i would sell my house and move.....I dont need another son...i have a 16 yr old boy, but Samson to me is a family member and while of course I would choose Alexander over Samson....I would choose NO material object over Samson.


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## rodrigo

well i put my beanie (the one that keeps me warm when i walk him at night for 2 miles) and put a PLAY GUN GLOCK STYLE BB GUN....had to clarify...never owned a gun nor would I....not my thing.

and here is one of the 2 shots....my camera is my cell....my digital cannon i dropped at the park like a moron.

dave gave me the go ahead on the props to the forum on bottom right.....










ill either do a drive by spittin/licking .....or a robbed a "grain free" bank story and play off the beanie as a ski mask pulled up....

i can go in any direction...

here is the other one.....


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## aus_staffy

ThaLadyPit said:


> Lol at not smart enough Aus. While I can appreciate your response with the example of your dog kenneling up on his own, I don't necessarily feel that's educating someone on our breed, aside from the fact that they can't be left alone unattended, which is definitely a major factor. My shelter mutt would rather go in his kennel than lay on the couch sometimes. A kennel just goes back to instincts, it acts as a den, a place of solice, comfort and safety in the dog's mind. *Please don't take that the wrong way*; I just mean we should be educating more about the different breed types currently in existance, and the differences between them. I feel we should be more open about how dangerous the breed can be when in the wrong hands, bred improperly (talking about unstable temperaments and genetic health problems and such). But, you're on the right path.


No, I knew what you meant. I was just using the most recent example I could remember. I always get asked questions about the dogs when we have people over.


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## ThaLadyPit

Rodrigo, I do agree with your response to the catalyst... How do we counteract that, though? I'm guessing Dave pm'd you about using gp's logo on your pix? I reported Ames' post to bring it to his attention in order to help you out a bit. If I can come up with some good shots of my pups, I'll be more than happy to lend you the rights to the photos. Problem is, mine hate having their pix taken, let alone standing still lol.

Aus, I'm glad you understood what I was saying, lol. *Wipes sweat from brow*. Thank you so much for being open-minded and understanding, and for your participation in this conversation. I was hoping to reach more people with this discussion. 

I think I've proven thus far that confusion causes chaos, lol.


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## ThaLadyPit

ames said:


> Its really a nationwide epidemic. There are some pit friendly complexes, one based out of Arizona, but the fact is animals can be discriminated against, period, no matter the breed. I lived in a condo in the past and when I made an issue about my dog NOT being allowed when other people had dogs, they decided to ban all dogs instead of fighting the issue of breed specific. Basically its not a fight that I think can be won in the courts. It must be won with responsible ownership and showing people that pit bull type dogs can be productive in society with the right owners who respect them. A lot of places not get the 20lb or less limit. It is unfair, it should not be the case. In most states animals are treated as property and until you get the courts to recognize an animal as more than a possession, its an uphill battle IMO.


Ames, I borrowed your response in another thread to a post about removing breed restrictions. You said we have to get the courts to recognize dogs as more than just personal property... How do you propose we do that? You're right in the statement that it's not fair that our dogs are so heavily discriminated against. This ties into my question, and this thread, which is why I brought it here. Does anyone have any ideas how we go about changing this? We need to put our heads together and think, which is why I'm bringing this whole topic up here. Let's use our heads for more than a hat rack and do some serious thinking here.

While we're at, I've got a scenario for you... Suppose all the members here say "screw it, let the government go ahead and ban our dogs", what would your reaction be? How would you feel if every one of our supposed "fighters for the cause" just tucked tail and curred out, gave up on the fight... Then how would you feel? What would you say/do? What would your reaction be?


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## rodrigo

by all means please send me any pics u guys have with the doggies name..... any help i get not only is appreciated but i get excited over working with new friends.


anyways if u guys wanna point out any issues with my stories.....how to improve them or so...i have a really dark sense of humor and while i will keep it always PG ..... i might drop hints of sinister humor that for children's sake i need to keep in check on fb.

happy wednesday


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## ThaLadyPit

sometimes a random funny story will pop in my head but i can't think of one right now. I'll see what i can come up with as far as pix. My brain is fried after a 8 hr shift cookin pizzas to order lol.


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## rodrigo

sounds delishus


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## ThaLadyPit

lol... Yeah we make some good food.


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## ThaLadyPit

i don't know if you saw it, but another member here posted a link to the 2010 NCRC bite results on the forum's fb page, and i'm 12 pages in to a 48 pg read, but it does have some interesting info so far. If you get time, can you all read up on it, and we can discuss our opinions/thoughts on the matter!?


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## rodrigo

do u have a Iink?


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## ThaLadyPit

are you not a member of gp's fb page? I'll have to add you if not. Gimme a bit lol.


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## rodrigo

oh i am ....but im an idiot so computer stuff im a IiI thick on...takes a whiIe to soak up info .....technoogicaIIy inept


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## ThaLadyPit

lol, yeah, just realized that when it said you couldn't be added because you're already a member! Here's the link:
Http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/2010 DBRF Report FINAL_1.pdf

This should enable you to downoad the pdf directly to your computer, or where ever you wish to save the file to. If that don't work, go to GoPitbull.com on facebook and it's about 3 posts down, lol. I'm on my phone, so sometimes i can't copy & paste correctly... My smartphone is kinda dumb sometimes


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## ames

Lol yeah smartphones totally backfire on me too sometimes lol

I read it last night. Should have counted but I would say of the 33 fatalities some were incorrectly reported as being pit bulls and were proven to be other types of mutts. I am sure the media never had a retraction stating they were wrong. Others were labeled as "pit bulls" which I liked since it could not be verified and that's an accepted term for a mixed pit bull type dog. If I am not mistaken there were only 2 bull dogs that could be proven. An American Bull Dog and an APBT. 

What I took was what we already know. The media sucks. Maybe the fight needs to start there and not with law makers? Maybe we get people to spam and call and ask places to do a story about the misidentification and different breeds. Get the word out that a pit bull is just another word for a mutt. I don't know. What did you take from the report? Besides se people are idiots and all could have been avoided with responsible ownership.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella

How can we tap into the media and have the public see the "other side" of these dogs? Alls I ever see on the news is pit bull attacks and abuse cases. We need some stories in the media that show these dogs in a positive light such as therapy dogs, search and rescue, etc. I remember some years back on animal planet where a woman owned three pit bull cadaver dogs. People need to see the happy images on the news to take away from some of the negativity. So....how do we accomplish that? Call into the news stations and harass them about doing some positive stories on our breed?


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## rodrigo

media is a business.... u have to approach it from that angIe.... news has squat to do with right or wrong , it has to do with ratings....ony way media changes its stories is by giving them better ones.... news seIIs ...dont forget, its a business.

I dont mean to preach but what you guys get fed on tv is buIIcrap (i dont watch the "news") .... u can get more accurate info watching john stewart or the dude that comes on after him. u can get more accurate news watching south park matter of fact.

the fight vs the media has to be an inteIIigent one not a "righteous" one if that makes sense. We are trying to pay by the ruIes of what is right and wrong.....to them its a simpIe math equation $$$$


happy friday though IoI


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## ThaLadyPit

Amy, you're absolutely right! One positively identified American Bulldog, and one positively identified American Pit Bull Terrier... but I took issue with that because it was a dual registered dog, UKC APBT, and ABKC Am Bully. So, therefore, wasn't even really an APBT!

Yes!! We need to get through to the media!! We need to seek out people like Therese (Patch O' Pits) who do therapy work, etc. and get these kinds of owners in the news! I wish I lived closer to Therese, as I'm sure she wouldn't mind to help in the uphill battle to get the media to broadcast positive stories on the news.

No, I'm sure the media didn't retract their statements for misidentifying the breeds in question, either. I don't expect them to, but it'd be really nice if we could get that battle won first.

You know, Rachel Ray, and Ellen DeGeneres (sp?) have both had APBTs on their shows, Rachel Ray owns one (not sure if it's a purebred, or just a shelter rescue or what), many actors and actresses like Kathryn Heigle (from Grey's Anatomy) and I've heard Clint Eastwood even owns APBTs, wrestlers like Stone Cold Steve Austin and John Cena, etc. own this magnificent breed. We need to find a way to get the word out to the media that there are many various breeds clumped into one term: pitbull, and try and get them to start by distinguishing the differences in their newscasts. We have to take small steps progress from there. Maybe we could get an interview via Skype with Therese, for starters, and possibly BTK (Bully the Kid). Maybe we can get BTK to discuss this topic on his show at some point, before he "retires" lol. I may not be able to listen to the live show and participate in the chats, but I can go back into the archives and download his shows to my phone and listen to the files.

Rodrigo, I completely agree with you, the media is a money racket! The viewers are what make the money for the media.. so we need to find a way to get them to help us promote awareness. I say we start by contacting the major networks, like Fox, NBC, ABC and CBS, and branch out to the local stations in each of our areas. I'll see what I can come up with, and post it here for review to get input and second opinions.


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## ames

ThaLadyPit said:


> Ames, I borrowed your response in another thread to a post about removing breed restrictions. You said we have to get the courts to recognize dogs as more than just personal property... How do you propose we do that? You're right in the statement that it's not fair that our dogs are so heavily discriminated against. This ties into my question, and this thread, which is why I brought it here. Does anyone have any ideas how we go about changing this? We need to put our heads together and think, which is why I'm bringing this whole topic up here. Let's use our heads for more than a hat rack and do some serious thinking here.
> 
> While we're at, I've got a scenario for you... Suppose all the members here say "screw it, let the government go ahead and ban our dogs", what would your reaction be? How would you feel if every one of our supposed "fighters for the cause" just tucked tail and curred out, gave up on the fight... Then how would you feel? What would you say/do? What would your reaction be?


sorry just saw this when I was going back over the thread. Its a hard scenario, one that I have never thought about because I believe that it could never happen. Maybe its naive but I don't think we, as owners, would ever give it up. At least not the ones I know. you need to be as tough as your dog when it comes to owning one with all the crap you gotta take. I don't see anyone curring out.

With that being said I agree with Rodrigo the media is corrupt, as most corporations are, because its all about the bottom dollar. They need to create drama so they get ratings, and what is sad is a dog attack is drama they crave.

And Shanon, that's the million dollar question. Do I start to compile a list of all the top rated news stations and get some addresses or email's and we make up some kinda form letters and just start asking people to send them in? I mean there has to be something. Its a huge undertaking and I am sure if we all start to really ban together we could get going. I can start harassing Dan Rae, the voice of reason on nightside. He is a tremendous animal, especially Dog Lover. He loves Gargamel as I send him pictures all the time, and he responds to every one I send him. His program is in 38 states. Who knows...


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## ThaLadyPit

Sorry Ames, I've been busy lol. I don't know who Dan Rae is, but that sounds like a great idea. Maybe we can draft up a letter together with informative issues that we need to raise to the media's attention, and start with him. And I read more into the 2010 NCRC bite log, and did find the 1 definitive report of an APBT bite. I have yet to finish reading it, but i'm almost there. I'm on pg 30 of 48 pgs. 

Rodrigo, you want in on this too? What about you Shannon? We really need to start somewhere, instead of feeling like it's a lost cause before we even get started. It's that way of thinking that lets the legislation take over and allow our breeds to fall into the ruins, instead of overcoming discrimination like what we're faced with.


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## ames

I would love to be an advocate, but never want to say the wrong thing. Or send a wrong message. Since I have no experience at all, I would totally want all input and approval of others before anything is sent.


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## ThaLadyPit

lol... I hear you there Ames. Well, we can definitely get this thing going. I don't care to help out because it affects me too, in the long run.


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## rodrigo

im down.... and we all learn from this....there is no such thing as only ONE way to raise a loving dog. 

this isnt about us or what kind of owners we are...its about showing everyone that the dog has the potential to be the most loving breed with no adverse effects if one realizes that these are still animals capable of wild behavior predisposed by their own genetics.... but no different than a german shepperd ....next time u see an adult male go pet him while he is eating....i bet half of the adults will growl and snap at you. 

should we ban feeding them??? ridiculous....its that type of analogy and questioning of the hypocrisy of it all to make some ratings to sell some extra commercials that we need to bring to light


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## ThaLadyPit

i agree with you there rodrigo... Minus the part of dogs growling. I don't allow nor do i tolerate food aggression of any kind, therefore, i nip it in the bud immediately! My shephard mix was broke very early of his food aggression, and so was my apbt pup. Just as i've broken all my previous dogs of food aggression. But, that's just me. I feel i should be able to handle food and bones at any time when the dogs have possession of such, and so i enforce that. I include all the family members and friends in that training so the dogs understand that they will receive such item back when they release without any adverse reactions. If they growl or snarl, they lose it til next feeding or bone time. Then we try again. I give a swift correction with a snap of the collar/leash and a stern NO! They get the point very quickly.

Well, we should do a group chat and discuss ideas of what to say, who to address and how to go about it, if and when we've all got time lol. I can link up through yahoo and facebook at the same time, so if you wanna add me to your yahoo contacts, my im is [email protected], or if you have msn or windows live, [email protected].


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## rodrigo

oh im not condoning food aggression....but not everyone (including my dad) trained that out of his german shepperd...so a responsible owner would at least feed the dog in a separate room or such...etc etc


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## ThaLadyPit

i get what you're saying now. So topics needing to be discussed include food aggression, or at least responsibility reguarding food aggression, among other less-thought about manners lol.


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## ThaLadyPit

Anybody who has any positive input is more than welcome to join in this conversation, as it's not meant to be a discussion amongst 3-4 people... I'd like to know everyone's thoughts/opinions here.


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## EL CUCO

Great discussion guys...I'm here just trying to think outside the box because as it stands..our road to "pit bull" freedom is an uphill battle that most likely will never really change. This breed was bred for the [], that will never change. And people think that these dogs don't know the difference between a dog and a small child....so now what??

We cannot make people interested in something that they care nothing for. Hence, the bsl because they don't own one of these dogs nor do they care for "pit bulls"...all they care about is that they don't get bit by the imaginary "1000lb shark like lock jaws"

So all that being said...what we are doing is great but it is small sample size. In order to reach the masses we need our "superstars, presidents,pro sports players...etc to help shed light on to those that "don't care" maybe the influence of famous people will help others ease up a bit.

Idk hope I'm not just rambling...just thinking out loud as I'm watching a pit bull owner on tv as I type...Tom Brady. Step up Tom and tell people bout your dogs!!!


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## ThaLadyPit

You're absolutely right! We need to reach the masses! So, we start by trying to contact these super stars. Maybe we can find a way to get in touch with these people, like Tom Brady, and do an interview! How do we do that, though!? I've got some idea, but I'd like to hear other's opinions or ideas.


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## EL CUCO

Ok...I'm dreaming a bit here...but what are goals with out dreams? We got a superbowl coming up. What if....we were able to put some money together to have a superbowl commercial...obviously would need to be heavily sponsored and could feature somebody like Tom Brady. I know its too close for this year but maybe for next year ??? 

The other obvious thing would be to try to reach these stars and athletes via email or thru contacts. 

I know we have some contacts with pitbulls and parolees, maybe we can initiate some dialect and maybe get them on an episode.

...just brain storming here


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## ThaLadyPit

sounds like a great idea! Between BTK and Tia, i'm sure they could get a voice on the line, or put us in touch somehow. You've got fresh ideas, and i like that.


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## Celestial88

I haven't read this whole thing so my apologies if this is redundant. I think it will improve, at least I've seen it improving recently.

I think more success stories like the Vick dogs would help greatly. Look at Hector, he has plenty of scars and is now a certified therapy dog.









Seeing more Pit Bulls in sports and positively shown in the media would aid greatly.

I'm worried about Malinois now too... They definitely not a dog for the general public yet since their involvement in recent high profile assassinations and such they're becoming popular amongst Joe shmoe


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## ThaLadyPit

yes, the Vick dogs were high profile and brought much more attention to the breed, both good and bad, but we need strictly positive media attention. 

Please go back and read from the beginning to get the full gist of the conversation, so you can provide more input and possibly help us. Every opinion matters here, for the sake of the breed.


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## kgluv

Dogs are not personal prop. they just overturned that law SOMEWHERE in TX. There that door is now unlocked.


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## aus_staffy

kgluv said:


> Dogs are not personal prop. they just overturned that law SOMEWHERE in TX. There that door is now unlocked.


You're going to have to elaborate there, chief. How does that affect the breed and what door is it unlocking?


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## koeJ007

Heya. 
Correct me if I'm wrong- I have heard that pit bull breeds are one of, if not THE most widely owned dog in the US. If this is the case then the risk of anything negative happening goes up. Aus_staffy also makes a good point about so many irresponsible owners owning this breed. Call me crazy, but if we were to think of ways to limit irresponsible owners having one of these dogs- wouldn't it help the against BSL? 
I mean, if all those 'people' out there saw us doing something against irresponsibility, wouldn't they feel less comitted to doing something for us (or instead of us)? 
I may be naive- but if we can put more pressure on owners of these breeds to act more responsibly then the liklehood of them actually owning one lessens. There must be a way to curb byb- even if it means shining the spotlight on their breeding practices. 
Surely there is a way for nat geo (or some other documentary channel) to do a piece on the APBT. How they came to be, how they should be bred and who should own one. 

Imo, popularity is our own worst enemy as its all the wrong people who want them


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## ThaLadyPit

Forgive me for being a pessimist here, but although the superbowl commercial sounds like a great idea, I do think it's a bit out of our league just yet. We need to start small and work our way up. What if we do a pre-recorded show on youtube, interviewing members with working/therapy dogs first, and random responsible owners from dog events/clubs, or on the streets, etc., and maybe some shelter volunteers, veterinarians, show judges, etc. Maybe we can start with a once a month show, and possibly work our way up to weekly. Eventually, we can cause the youtube show to viral, and it will make the news, like Good Morning America or USA Today or something along those lines!? 

Maybe I can get BTK to look at this thread and do a special show on this topic? What do y'all think?

I'm with Aus, kgluv... Please elaborate on your post for us. Maybe you can provide a link for us so we can read up on that. It would be greatly appreciated.


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## ThaLadyPit

koeJ007 said:


> Heya.
> Correct me if I'm wrong- I have heard that pit bull breeds are one of, if not THE most widely owned dog in the US. If this is the case then the risk of anything negative happening goes up. Aus_staffy also makes a good point about so many irresponsible owners owning this breed. Call me crazy, but if we were to think of ways to limit irresponsible owners having one of these dogs- wouldn't it help the against BSL?
> I mean, if all those 'people' out there saw us doing something against irresponsibility, wouldn't they feel less comitted to doing something for us (or instead of us)?
> I may be naive- but if we can put more pressure on owners of these breeds to act more responsibly then the liklehood of them actually owning one lessens. There must be a way to curb byb- even if it means shining the spotlight on their breeding practices.
> Surely there is a way for nat geo (or some other documentary channel) to do a piece on the APBT. How they came to be, how they should be bred and who should own one.
> 
> Imo, popularity is our own worst enemy as its all the wrong people who want them


I do believe you're right in your way of thinking... If we can step up and help cull out irresponsible owners, we can get a better grip on the situation at hand. Maybe we can get in touch with the producers/directors of Nat Geo or Discovery and see if they'd be willing to do a show of that nature, and find willing participants to allow them to come and film their kennel set ups, training, etc. Let's see how far we can go with these ideas and run with them! Great thinking koe!


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## Blue_Nose_Bella

While I think nat geo and discovery channel are a step in the right direction I would also like to see people push for positive stories of the pit bulls in the news media as I said earlier in this thread. What I did around Christmas time was put a picture of Bella up on a Facebook page I liked for my local area news station (WCVB Boston) of her dressed in a christmas dress lol! I also wrote a positive message about the breed and had about a half dozen people "like" it. I'm hoping that the picture may have put a new image in someones negative mind about the breed by looking at how sweet she looked. Just an idea but I'm sure there are tons of media outlets on FB that we can put pics up on and flood them with positive images of our misunderstood breed. In return maybe they would do a positive segment on the breed. I don't know....maybe its far fetched.


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## ThaLadyPit

No, Shanon, I don't think it's far fetched at all! It actually sounds like a great idea. I've already liked my local channel's fb page, so I guess I need to get some pix of my lil gal with my daughters and post them up lol. Lemme see what I can come up with, and I'll share them here and on fb.


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## ThaLadyPit

bump.... Not tryi g to lose this discussion by the wayside.


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## ThaLadyPit

Okay, so watching ABC news this morning, they showed a video posted on youtube about a street in Utah where every car that tried to drive down it, wiped out and not a single person was injured after the recent blizzard. That just made my theory that much more solid that we should do something on youtube first to start getting the word out about our dogs to change the opinions of the masses. I'd like to get something going here; instead of sitting stagnant like we have been. The longer we wait, the harder the fight will be.


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## koeJ007

Great! What's your plan? Roderigo seems to have some great FB ideas- maybe he can pitch in. I know Khashlovesgucci did a small thing on his dog swinging by her mouth while he spun her as well. 
But what's your angle? Like a documentary kind of thing or a fun motivational piece? My hubby loves watching motivational videos on body building and the way they are set up is awesome. That kind of thing maybe? 

Calling all computer literate peeps.........Show us what YA'LL can do!


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## ThaLadyPit

Actually, i'm thinking if we can put our heads together and blend the two together, that'd be even better. I like Rodrigo's ideas with the fake news story... Maybe open with something like that, and cut straight to a hospital or library where our breeds are being used as therapy dogs, or if we could contact the ex-police officer who's therapy dog was taken away and then awarded back to him b/c of the breed ban in his area? I don't know, let me think a bit more & see what I can come up with. Maybe we can get some ideas rolling here.


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## koeJ007

Jip, brilliant idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I should mention, I'm not technology compatible and can't even post photo's. But I'm loving this thread and know that if we all put our heads together we can come up with something truly magical that will prove to the world that our dogs are just misunderstood and misrepresented!)


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## ThaLadyPit

koeJ007 said:


> Jip, brilliant idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> (I should mention, I'm not technology compatible and can't even post photo's. But I'm loving this thread and know that if we all put our heads together we can come up with something truly magical that will prove to the world that our dogs are just misunderstood and misrepresented!)


Lol @ not technology compatible. It's okay... Just giving any input you have is a great help!

Now, where's Rodrigo and that gorgeous Samson at?


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## rodrigo

i havent forgotten about this ..... just been a really bad week for me. gonna try to do some "news" on Gargamel lol

ill be back in a couple of days, just gotta clear my head a lil


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## bluefamily

interesting read y'all....education always takes a long time and is a one to one process but it can be done...


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## ThaLadyPit

rodrigo said:


> i havent forgotten about this ..... just been a really bad week for me. gonna try to do some "news" on Gargamel lol
> 
> ill be back in a couple of days, just gotta clear my head a lil


I'm glad to see you around Rodrigo! Take your time, bud... We'll still be here, lol. Hope your week improves!



bluefamily said:


> interesting read y'all....education always takes a long time and is a one to one process but it can be done...


There you are, gal! My old friend... I was waiting for you to chime in! You are so right, it is a one-one process, but we shall overcome! If you have any ideas, I'm open to suggestions.


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## ThaLadyPit

okay, so i've not had time to think extensively, but what about we take a trip to our local shelters, and do a self-produced video of the supposed pit bulls in the shelters, how they may be misidentified as such, how sweet and loving they are, how excited they are to see someone come visit them, and possibly interview shelter workers and ACOs about how they came to the conclusion of what breed or mix they've got in each kennel/run? Simply explain to them, if they question our otives, that we're attempting to change the general public's perception of the breed and pushing to end BSL. I like the idea, but if someone has a better suggestion, i'm willing to listen.


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## koeJ007

I thinks its a fab idea! With all the chatter about dogs from shelters and why not to call them APBT and the like: its perfect.


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## ThaLadyPit

great! Thought this thread was getting buried under all the new threads lol.


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## koeJ007

ThaLadyPit said:


> great! Thought this thread was getting buried under all the new threads lol.


Nah, I'll keep trying to bump it up with my two cents everynow and then when I get a chance.

But I was wondering if we couldn't make mention in your vid how pits are not dogs for everyone? Does this go against what you had in mind? Its just that I read about that poor dog that was destroyed and can't help but blame the owners. There is some leeway with some breeds concerning mistakes, but with pits there are none. The owners have to be actively trying to prevent these scenarios instead of thinking, "it'll never happen to me". 
Just my two cents. But what do you think?


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## ThaLadyPit

Absolutely! I'll be one of the first to say this breed isn't for everybody. Especially somebody that isn't going to be responsible, let alone cautious. I've got to get some pix of my pup... *SN* She's trying to come into heat and has been mounting my shelter mutt (neutered) and is getting no satisfaction lol. Sorry, had to share that b/c it's been hilarious to watch.


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## koeJ007

Lmao! Its funny how they get just before. I realised it was partly the reason mine went so berserk and tried to eat the kitchen door (amongst the slew of other reasons!). 
Good luck. 
Are you gonna spay her or breed with her?


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## rodrigo

hey guys, life still crazy for me right now and i am emotionally a wreck so i dont have too much time for the forum as of late.

on a good side note, my cousin cant keep her pit mix Delilah and I have decided to take her as Samsons companion for life. 

Samson and Delilah.... how cool is that? and they get along great....I will take some good shots soon.

I am still taking him out there always and educating people as to what a REAL American Pit Bull Terrier looks and behaves like.


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## koeJ007

Eish! I seriously hope things get better for you soon! Life can definitely be a roller coaster ride. Good job taking a companian for samson, and the names couldn't be more................... I can't say perfect (even though they are) cos I've used it way too much; even in this thred! Compatible? Ah to heck with it. The names ARE perfect. Pics would be great. I know you love taking pics of your boy. 
Jip, where would the world of pits be without some good representation. You are doing a fabtastic job with Samson. You are truly an inspiration!


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## rodrigo

here are a few crappy pics.... soon as she comes home with us ill take good pix

http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/42362-samson-delilah-3-a.html


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## koeJ007

Was JUST checking them out in the pics section! They look fab together. She looks like a sweetie, but one who can just hang with the guys too. 
She can give you more stories to talk about on FB: now that you have 2 dogs, the antics will be rolling in. Can't wait to read sum of them...


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## ThaLadyPit

koeJ007 said:


> Lmao! Its funny how they get just before. I realised it was partly the reason mine went so berserk and tried to eat the kitchen door (amongst the slew of other reasons!).
> Good luck.
> Are you gonna spay her or breed with her?


No, I don't plan on breeding her, but she will be tried out in conformation and weight pull, so I am keeping her in tact for now. I don't plan to breed, but if her breeder chooses to use her later on, then I won't have a problem with that. If you haven't already, check out my picture thread called peek a boo. I put up a pic of my 2 furballs lol.



rodrigo said:


> hey guys, life still crazy for me right now and i am emotionally a wreck so i dont have too much time for the forum as of late.
> 
> on a good side note, my cousin cant keep her pit mix Delilah and I have decided to take her as Samsons companion for life.
> 
> Samson and Delilah.... how cool is that? and they get along great....I will take some good shots soon.
> 
> I am still taking him out there always and educating people as to what a REAL American Pit Bull Terrier looks and behaves like.


Hey Rodrigo! Sorry to hear things are so rocky for you right now. I'm lovin the Samson & Delilah deal. Can't wait to see some decent pix of them. Keep your head up & things will get better soon.


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## koeJ007

Gorgeous pics. Some really good looking dogs you get there.


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## ThaLadyPit

Thank you for the compliment! I love my dogs like I love my kids!


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## ThaLadyPit

I was asked another question that ties into this one. In light of the misidentification problem at shelters, rescues & vet offices (on rare occasion), would you say we need to address that issue as well!? Their uneducated guess at what breed or breeds a dog is makes up a huge part of the media and legislators misidentifying the breeds as well, or am I wrong? Would y'all say this is a fair assessment as well?


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## aus_staffy

Definitely. When you consider the fact that when people come to _this_ site to ask if their dog is purebred we can't answer them for sure, what chance does a shelter/rescue/vet have?

I'm sure statistics like dog attacks or even population are skewed because of misidentification.


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## Shoes

The interesting thing is, it seems like the breed started falling into the wrong hands (byb) and getting a bad rep soon after dog fighting was outlawed. Don't take me for a "dogman," I just wonder if there is any correlation there.


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## ThaLadyPit

aus_staffy said:


> Definitely. When you consider the fact that when people come to _this_ site to ask if their dog is purebred we can't answer them for sure, what chance does a shelter/rescue/vet have?
> 
> I'm sure statistics like dog attacks or even population are skewed because of misidentification.


Aus, I was thinking the same thing, but wanted others opinions there. You're so right, and I'm proud to be a member here, where we're honest with our members in the fact that "if you don't have a pedigree or regiistration papers, there's no way of knowing". It thrills me, because although we may be harsh on the wanna be breeders, we're still sensitive and caring enough about our purebreds to be brutally honest.



Shoes said:


> The interesting thing is, it seems like the breed started falling into the wrong hands (byb) and getting a bad rep soon after dog fighting was outlawed. Don't take me for a "dogman," I just wonder if there is any correlation there.


Shoes, first off... Welcome to the pack! I must have missed your intro thread, but I do hope you enjoy your stay on our yard. Secondly, thank you for your input on this thread. I do believe you're right in your statement, only because I've read plenty and talked to plenty of other dog people, and we all seem to be of the same consensus. I do believe there is definitely a correlation there, or link, between the ban on matching dogs and the new fad and problems that come with it associating this breed with less than responsible people. It seems to me, the highlighting and showcasing of all the busts brought unwanted attention to the breed, and thus enabling your average joe to get their hands on this magnificant dog!


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## koeJ007

Ditto to each and every one of the replies. Clearly we all think the same way! With the way this threads going we could make a full on movie out of all the facts. There is so much to say to all those bybs,bully/ bulldog haters and everyone else out there dead set on misrepresenting this breed. 
I also thoroughly enjoyed reading 'possible sticky candidate' as thereis so many good points there too! 
I was googling discovery and those other channel's stand on new material and came across lots of great info. They give pointers on how to set it out and who to send the finished product to. Let me see if they have any links..........


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## ThaLadyPit

that's great! I would love to see what's available and how we could compile a video to get the word out.


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## koeJ007

Ok, ja, so there is this one site that I found really interesting to browse http://www.documentaryhowto.com/. I can't seem to find the other one but I'll keep searching.

Sorry if I seem to have gone a bit overboard. My filter for being realistic fails me sometimes- but I just believe that if there is something someone wants to do and is passionate about it- then the sky is the limit.
Just ignore what you can't use. Lol- I scare myself sometimes.


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## ThaLadyPit

No, all your input/assistance is greatly appreciated! I hate to ask, but what is your name? My name is Beverly, but everyone here calls me Bev.


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## koeJ007

Lol. Hey Bev. I'm Jenna.


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## ThaLadyPit

lol... Hey Jenna! Okay, back to business lol.


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## ames

So I thought of this thread when I was submitting a picture for a BSL campaign from Guilty til proven innocent, the movie that was recently released. here is the information:

We are "pit bull" owners | Facebook
*
This campaign is designed to introduce people to the true "pit bull" owner. The assumption often is made that only thugs and criminals own "pit bulls." It has been suggested that Breed Discriminatory Laws target "pit bulls" with the dual (or true) and misguided intent of targeting certain human demographics. Even the idea that "it's not the breed, it's the owner," can help fuel the presumption that no good people take responsibility for these dogs! So who are "pit bull" owners? We are. And we are just like you. Get to know us, then get to know our dogs. (Thanks to Laura Prowitz for her significant contribution to this campaign) [If you'd like to become a face for this campaign, please email Gemma: [email protected] for our guidelines]*

If anyone is interested it seemed like a good idea. I then thought about how instead of doing pictures of people with their pit bull type dogs maybe we could do a similar one? Or maybe have one for people who do not know what breed their dog is or if its not an APBT make a similar statement about how my dog is not an APBT but s/he treated like one anyway. Or some way better clever phrase that gets the point across?


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## ThaLadyPit

Great post Amy, and thank you for sharing that info and your ideas! So, to add to the idea of doing a video @ our local shelters, how bout, we take our dogs out to a local park or playground (or where ever you take you take your dogs for socialization time), and video introducing our dogs to random strangers, with their permission of course. We should highlight the peoples' reactiins to what breed they're meeting, the questions they ask, the comments they make, and how they act before they know what kind of dog they're meeting. I meant to do this last weekend when i took my pups out, but i hadn't charged my camera battery, doh!


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## ames

Hey guess they needed to fill one more spot this week so they picked mine to do. Here it is I guess its gonna be posted this week sometime.


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## ThaLadyPit

Awesome! I love it. Don't feel like you're runner-up. Any positive image is a step in the right direction.


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## ames

Thanks! Haha nah it's all good! They are tying to do weekly campaigns so people should send that email! They must need people if mine was done some quick! They can be with a family or just one person.


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## koeJ007

Heya. Ames, that os fantastic. Its always great to be able to put a face to a name. Congrats on the pic. You're doing a fabulous thing for the breed.


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## ames

koeJ007 said:


> Heya. Ames, that os fantastic. Its always great to be able to put a face to a name. Congrats on the pic. You're doing a fabulous thing for the breed.


hey thanks! I want all of you to do it!! lol they need people! This is the new pitcher for the Marlons who had to move outside of Miami-Dade due to BDL.

*Here is Mark and Jamie Buehrle volunteered to be a part of our We Are 'Pit Bull' Owners campaign! Mark pitches for the Miami Marlins and Jamie manages the family's affairs. The Buerhles work to help shelter dogs and have also spoken on behalf of the effort to repeal Miami-Dade's BDL. They are humble, kind people who we are honored to know. And they are proud "pit bull" owners!
*


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## ThaLadyPit

wow! Nice to finally put a face to the name of Mr. Buerhle, and his wife & the four-legged kids lol. I definitely want to help... Lemme see what I can come up with. Long day today, but I'll get on it asap.


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## ThaLadyPit

Okay, this thread is drowning.... Wanted to bump it up a bit. I'm still thinking of ideas for my photo, since this weekend is going to be below freezing, we'll be staying indoors  but i'll see what i can come up with.


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## ThaLadyPit

Bumping this back up. Don't want to lose this discussion.


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## ThaLadyPit

So, I'm having trouble deciding which picture I should submit to the campaign on face book....









This one....









or this one? If you look closely on this one, you can actually see her tongue grazing my face, giving me kisses. Help me decide please!


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## william williamson

zohawn said:


> i think if you want to move the breed out of the thug steriotype then we need to stop doing things like pit bulls and parolees.


 this is the biggest bag of crap I've seen in A longtime.
Heck, let's just amplify the stupidity. You want to detract from A parolee, let's keep them out of the hands of people on probation. a criminal is A criminal.
I'm A convict, narco trafficante, and A whole lot of other untendered crimes.
I'll bet you my dogs are as good if not better cared for and managed than the majority of pits walking the face of the earth.
When it comes to being A steward for the breed I have the experience, hands on to address any question about what pits do, have been used for and their social status, except for schutzhund. Yet I have managed them and worked with them in protective status.
Nothing like putting A whole segment of society in A barrel and pushing it over the cliff.


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## ames

ThaLadyPit said:


>


That's my pic Bev!  Not sure if they can take copy-write pictures though, you have to sign over the rights to them in order to take part.



william williamson said:


> this is the biggest bag of crap I've seen in A longtime.
> Heck, let's just amplify the stupidity. You want to detract from A parolee, let's keep them out of the hands of people on probation. a criminal is A criminal.
> I'm A convict, narco trafficante, and A whole lot of other untendered crimes.
> I'll bet you my dogs are as good if not better cared for and managed than the majority of pits walking the face of the earth.
> When it comes to being A steward for the breed I have the experience, hands on to address any question about what pits do, have been used for and their social status, except for schutzhund. Yet I have managed them and worked with them in protective status.
> Nothing like putting A whole segment of society in A barrel and pushing it over the cliff.


Agree to that as well, if you are on parolee you are looking for a chance to start over to change biased opinions, just like this breed. I think its a great match up. Not every gangster goes to jail either, its the mentality that people need ot be careful of, not labeling a whole group of people as being unworthy.


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## ThaLadyPit

ames said:


> That's my pic Bev!  Not sure if they can take copy-write pictures though, you have to sign over the rights to them in order to take part.
> 
> Good think I saved that as a copy to the original, lol. I've got to go through and read the attachments she sent me and sign the paperwork to send back to her with the picture. I was leaning toward the kissy face one too, but I wanted a second opinion. Thanks for your vote.
> 
> Agree to that as well, if you are on parolee you are looking for a chance to start over to change biased opinions, just like this breed. I think its a great match up. Not every gangster goes to jail either, its the mentality that people need ot be careful of, not labeling a whole group of people as being unworthy.


I agree with WWIII and Ames. I think Zohawn was set straight early on in this thread, as he hasn't posted in it since lol. But yeah, the simple-simon way of thinking is what hurts the breed the most.


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## ThaLadyPit

Well, I submitted the picture and the release form. I'm just waiting on it to be posted so I can share it with y'all! I haven't seen Jenna here in a bit.. hope all is well. Let's not lose this thread y'all!


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## ThaLadyPit

Okay, so I have a rant/vent type of thing that ties in with this subject/thread... 

What is up with everyone posting pictures of their dogs snarling/snapping in them? Does anybody else feel that also affects the already negative image of the breed(s)? I don't get why people think that's cool to post up pictures like that, especially for a monthly photo contest like we hold on here. I could understand if it was a photo shot during a PP or Sch contest, but just a random shot in the local park or their own front or back yard.. I don't get it!


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## EckoMac

It took me a minute, but I finally read through this entire thread. I am now caught up. LOL!
B, the kissy pic with Ices was indeed the best choice, I hope they use it.

I don't get the whole snarling pics either, I've only ever seen Ecko trip out twice and was never in any position to even think about my camera, much less get pictures. Plus, why would anyone want anyone else think their dog is some kinda man eater. It's just stupid and only makes the people on the end of the leash look like wussies. I don't need my dog to be a BA, because I already am. It's my job to protect HIM, not the other way around. Stupid people suck. It's pretty much my life's moto.

I'm not technologically savvy, but my GF is a graphics something other, so if I can put her to work on anything to help the cause, just let me know.


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## ThaLadyPit

Awesome Shanna! Thanks for the help, and the input and reading. I've been trying to keep this thread up and running, but the people that were following have abandoned it, lol. Dave said he was going to read and post his thoughts/opinions too, but I guess he forgot or got tied up with something else lol.

*ETA: Same here... I don't need my pups to protect me... they do it on their own. I don't condone them being HA, but my mutt boy, Roller is obviously some sort of guardian breed mix, presumably GSD mix, and he's very protective of the kids and me. There's one person he doesn't like in particular, and I don't correct him for growling/barking at that person. But I avidly correct him for barking at children, or other adults if we're out in public. Here at home, or in the car, though... all bets are off. It's his job to protect us, and he knows it. But I would NEVER post up a picture of my dogs displaying aggressive behavior, and in the off chance I ever do... you have all rights to cyber slap me, lol.*


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## EckoMac

Well, we'll just have to go back and forth for a little while and others will wonder what amazing convo we're having and jump on the band wagon. LOL!!

It is hard for me to do anything towards the fight becuase there is no BSL in my county, not really even any breed discrimination. People run up to Ecko and love on him and tell me how gorgeous my pit is. I try to explain American Bully mix, but they look at me like a crazy person and even my vets told me, "he's too short to be American Bull Dog." I'm like no, BULLY. So I through my hands in the air and walk away before the teenager temper starts to fly. LOL!

So, no issues here really, but I'm happy to help others in any way that I can.


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## ThaLadyPit

Lol @ teenager temper! I know how you feel. There's no discrimination here where I'm at either.. but I'm thinking of the breed as a whole. The reason why I'm so concerned, not just because of the BSL we hear about on a regular basis, or news stories we see... but the general public's perception.

When I took those pictures at the park, I was walking Ices around on the playground, kids were loving on her and petting her, and even a few adults wanted to meet her. I took her up the stairs on the slide, to work on her fear of the stairs/heights, and we sat up there for a minute, and kids were petting her. Then we came back down, and there was this little boy and his mom on the playground, coming from the swings. Now, this little boy had to be around 1 yr old, he was walking, but not that good, still needed mommy's help. He was saying "doggie" and pointing at Ices, so I asked his mom if he wanted to meet Ices. She said no, and was visibly nervous. My response was "She's just a baby, like your little boy." Apparently, that was the wrong thing to say... she snapped at me with "Well, it was just a BABY like that that attacked my 7 yr old sister!" All I could do was apologize to the woman and walk off the playground to prevent her from being more uncomfortable than she already was. I didn't want any confrontation or issues, as that's the only park out of 3 in the city limits that actually allows dogs, and has 2 different "doody" stations set up for dog owners, where they provide black plastic baggies and trash cans for owners to pick up behind their dogs. There were so many things I wanted to say to the woman, like how she's going to make her son deathly afraid of dogs b/c of her fear/ignorance... but some things are better left unsaid. I was completely dumbfounded and I just went and sat down on the park bench with Ices and Roller and showed them some extra loving. I even found myself apologizing to Ices for the woman's ignorance. Not like Ices really cared, but I did.


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## Kingsgurl

Great discussion, not sure how I missed it. ACK! So many different points now.

On the original point about will it fade as it did for the GSD's and the Dobe's. The answer is, sadly, no. The 'Pit Bull', in all it's incarnations, is so much a victim of it's own temperament and popularity that I see no end in sight. What I mean by this is a couple of things. 
First, those that seek 'bad ass' dogs are, for the most part, not really 'dog' people, per se. They are status seekers who like dogs. They may LOVE their dog, especially for the self-worth inflation it gives them, or they may just want a 'tough' dog, but most are not into extensive training, or dealing with problematic dogs. Many are getting their first dog. GSD's and Dobe's are tougher dogs for first time owners, not nearly as people centric or easily molded.
They are also far too common. GSD's and Dobe's were never available with the ease and plenitude as pit bull type dogs are now. They never had anywhere close to the numbers the "Pit Bull' has. Any fool can get a "pit bull', many times for free. The sheer numbers work against the breed here.... add in the fact that when you get a pit puppy, your first thought, before you even teach it sit or come is breeding it. It's almost a law. Got a "Pit" and it's the best dog ever, got to breed it, never mind if it's 4 weeks old, you are already planning it.

But, the APBT isn't really what appeals to this segment. Bigger, badder does. The APBT most of us think of as APBT IS actually pretty rare (at least around here) 80-90-100 pound dogs, those are plentiful. People always think my 8 year old, 50 pound male is a puppy, because he is so 'small'. (I live in the land of Blue Giants, so this may not have reached your area yet)

The popularity of the breed(s) is killing it, it works against us. The media doesn't give a crap about feel good stories, those are only good for limited, usually local, ratings. No one is beating down my door to do a story about my Hurricane Katrina dog who now has a CGC and beats the pants off of dogs in the Obedience ring, but you bet your ass we would make the paper if he nipped someone (or they thought he tried to) at ringside. Dog bite stories don't sell, Pit Bull bite stories do. I'm not sure how we change that.


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## ThaLadyPit

Kingsgurl said:


> Great discussion, not sure how I missed it. ACK! So many different points now.
> 
> On the original point about will it fade as it did for the GSD's and the Dobe's. *The answer is, sadly, no. The 'Pit Bull', in all it's incarnations, is so much a victim of it's own temperament and popularity that I see no end in sight.* What I mean by this is a couple of things.
> First, those that seek 'bad ass' dogs are, for the most part, not really 'dog' people, per se. They are status seekers who like dogs. They may LOVE their dog, especially for the self-worth inflation it gives them, or they may just want a 'tough' dog, but most are not into extensive training, or dealing with problematic dogs. Many are getting their first dog. GSD's and Dobe's are tougher dogs for first time owners, not nearly as people centric or easily molded.
> They are also far too common. GSD's and Dobe's were never available with the ease and plenitude as pit bull type dogs are now. They never had anywhere close to the numbers the "Pit Bull' has. Any fool can get a "pit bull', many times for free. The sheer numbers work against the breed here.... add in the fact that when you get a pit puppy, your first thought, before you even teach it sit or come is breeding it. It's almost a law. Got a "Pit" and it's the best dog ever, got to breed it, never mind if it's 4 weeks old, you are already planning it.
> 
> But, the APBT isn't really what appeals to this segment. Bigger, badder does. The APBT most of us think of as APBT IS actually pretty rare (at least around here) 80-90-100 pound dogs, those are plentiful. People always think my 8 year old, 50 pound male is a puppy, because he is so 'small'. (I live in the land of Blue Giants, so this may not have reached your area yet)
> 
> The popularity of the breed(s) is killing it, it works against us. The media doesn't give a crap about feel good stories, those are only good for limited, usually local, ratings. No one is beating down my door to do a story about my Hurricane Katrina dog who now has a CGC and beats the pants off of dogs in the Obedience ring, but you bet your ass we would make the paper if he nipped someone (or they thought he tried to) at ringside. Dog bite stories don't sell, Pit Bull bite stories do. I'm not sure how we change that.


You are exactly right, unfortunately! I completely agree with your entire post. Thank you so much for reading, and responding, and helping keep this thread alive. It's been a struggle to keep it going, but if I can get more opinions/thoughts on the matter, we may just be able to do something about it. Though, I'm not completely sure how to go about this either.


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## EckoMac

My boss is afraid of dogs. I am using Ecko to slowly get him to be OK. Every time he comes out here he comes by the house for a little bit. We are starting with Ecko in his crate and talking about his body language. If he sticks with it Ecko will have changed one mans view of these vicious dogs.

I let anyone and everyone meet Ecko. I guess blue is less seen in this area so we get a lot of attention while walking and that makes people want to meet him. (even though he's from the humane society. LOL)

I guess one person at a time.

Sorry that lady was so mean.


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## ThaLadyPit

That's excellent that you're working on changing your boss's opinion of dogs in general, and the breed! 

Eh, no worries. I'm over it now... I was just so befuddled at the time, I just didn't really know what to do other than hug my dogs and tell them I love them! I mean, I've encountered breed prejudice before, but not to that extreme. So I was kinda let down a bit, heartbroken if you will. Then, I got pissed off, lol. That's when I decided it was time to go home lol.


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## Kingsgurl

I love both those pics! I'm sorry you were confronted by this. It feels like a punch in the gut sometimes, lol
I was walking Martin and an older lady was walking down the sidewalk toward us. I am VERY respectful of the fact that some people do not like dogs, so I always step off and give them the right of way. Martin wanted to go say Hi, but I put him in a sit at my side because she looked uncomfortable. He was sitting sweetly at my side, giving me full attention, yet she felt compelled to stop and tell me "I hate those dogs, they are mean"
I was dumbstruck for a minute, but then just announced to Martin that it was time to go because SOMEONE obviously wasn't very friendly and might in fact be a BITCH" Smiled sweetly at her and strolled off.
I still get pissed when I think of it, lol


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## Celestial88

I want to read this, but haven't been able to get time. >_< Sigh. Anyhow, if anyone needs pictures or could use my help in anyway let me know. I have pictures of Alice with a bunch of camp kids from when I went to "Camp Love-A-Pet" with her to talk about Pit Bulls and the kids got to meet her. I'll post 'em and you can use them for whatever you like.


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## KMdogs

The APBT has never been in a fad, the "idea" of the APBT has.. Not THAT many people own APBTs and after these hounds were made available to anyone, it has warped to arguably more so out of sight out of mind.. The damage to the original Bulldog had already been done, however.

The Rottweiler and Doberman overcame BSL? Maybe in some areas but in most they are just as targeted.. Hell there are breeds under BSL that are banned in places where those said hounds haven't even stepped foot on. There was a place up north that banned Filas and there was none registered nor no cases involving that hound what so ever.

The "damage done" will always remain, i believe.. Both to "public image" (never meant to be) and to the hound itself in overall form.. Unheard of for a Bulldog to be a pet only.. Yet the vast majority claiming to feed APBTs have just that.. A pet.

Hell how many have Bulldogs that they use for any working purpose? There are quite a few for sport, show and pet.. That about sums it up.. The working stocks make up such a small population now in days.. It is great yet pathetic.

These dogs won't go extinct though it is a good topic i feel we all have thought about time to time..

As to the TV shows, its all useless fur mommy :flush: anyhow.. Yes sometimes there is "decent" information out there that should be BASIC sense.. People that already know are not affected by these shows.. Those that buy into it are two types.. 1. Enjoy them purely for entertainment OR 2. Believe what they see.. Which quite frankly is dangerous. How many times have we heard, "i saw it on dog whisperer and..".... How often do we have to correct these statements? Parolees, Pit Boss (or whatever it is) and all these other shows are just like any reality tv show.. It is entertainment, even if there are facts that however so often emerge.. If there was an ACTUAL show displaying the Bulldog/APBT for what they are, it wouldn't last as it would be boring and majority wouldn't care nor get it. They don't want to hear it, they want to see parolees get fresh starts with "bad rap pit bulls" because we as society associate them one of the same.. The REALITY is these "Pit Bulls" are not APBTs nor are they really Bulldogs.. 99% of the time entirely different dogs or mutts.. The few that are, poorly bred or poorly handled.. OR both YET these are the accepted "front runners" for these dogs? Do you not see the problem with that? LOL


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## Kingsgurl

Good points, KM, though the working dog (breed) now relegated to pet dog (breed) certainly is not inclusive of APBT (and a dog as versatile as the True APBT is always purported to be should find this transition easier than dogs whose work placed no focus on temperament or human affiliation) The evolving role of todays dog in modern society is interesting and is a fascinating debate in it's own right.


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## ThaLadyPit

Kingsgurl said:


> I love both those pics! I'm sorry you were confronted by this. It feels like a punch in the gut sometimes, lol
> I was walking Martin and an older lady was walking down the sidewalk toward us. I am VERY respectful of the fact that some people do not like dogs, so I always step off and give them the right of way. Martin wanted to go say Hi, but I put him in a sit at my side because she looked uncomfortable. He was sitting sweetly at my side, giving me full attention, yet she felt compelled to stop and tell me "I hate those dogs, they are mean"
> I was dumbstruck for a minute, but then just announced to Martin that it was time to go because SOMEONE obviously wasn't very friendly and might in fact be a BITCH" Smiled sweetly at her and strolled off.
> I still get pissed when I think of it, lol


Thanks for the compliments! I do too.. they're my new favorites lol. 
I'm not sorry for the brief confrontation... it was a learning experience for me, and I think by apologizing to her and walking away to ease her nerves may have shown her that not all owners of this breed are like the bad reputation that precedes them.

I did find myself smiling at your response to your recent encounter though.



Celestial88 said:


> I want to read this, but haven't been able to get time. >_< Sigh. Anyhow, if anyone needs pictures or could use my help in anyway let me know. I have pictures of Alice with a bunch of camp kids from when I went to "Camp Love-A-Pet" with her to talk about Pit Bulls and the kids got to meet her. I'll post 'em and you can use them for whatever you like.


Thank you for your input Celeste! Please feel free to share.



Kingsgurl said:


> Good points, KM, though the working dog (breed) now relegated to pet dog (breed) certainly is not inclusive of APBT (and a dog as versatile as the True APBT is always purported to be should find this transition easier than dogs whose work placed no focus on temperament or human affiliation) The evolving role of todays dog in modern society is interesting and is a fascinating debate in it's own right.


I agree, Tina.. today's dog calls for a totally different purpose, whether it's working, sporting or showing. Considering certain laws that have been implemented, we have to go about things differently these days. The APBT is versatile and easily adapts to most any situation, therefore making it a more desirable companion, worker, or anything in between.


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## Kingsgurl

Those who protest otherwise sell the breed short.


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## Kingsgurl

> As to the TV shows, its all useless fur mommy anyhow.. Yes sometimes there is "decent" information out there that should be BASIC sense.. People that already know are not affected by these shows.. Those that buy into it are two types.. 1. Enjoy them purely for entertainment OR 2. Believe what they see.. Which quite frankly is dangerous. How many times have we heard, "i saw it on dog whisperer and..".... How often do we have to correct these statements? Parolees, Pit Boss (or whatever it is) and all these other shows are just like any reality tv show.. It is entertainment, even if there are facts that however so often emerge.. If there was an ACTUAL show displaying the Bulldog/APBT for what they are, it wouldn't last as it would be boring and majority wouldn't care nor get it. They don't want to hear it, they want to see parolees get fresh starts with "bad rap pit bulls" because we as society associate them one of the same.. The REALITY is these "Pit Bulls" are not APBTs nor are they really Bulldogs.. 99% of the time entirely different dogs or mutts.. The few that are, poorly bred or poorly handled.. OR both YET these are the accepted "front runners" for these dogs? Do you not see the problem with that? LOL


I don't watch either of those two shows, given that I have little time for TV between the dogs and the internet, but I would grant that no show following my lowly rescue efforts would gather many ratings, pretty boring, ordinary, everyday crap. The media likes a hook.
What, exactly IS a real pit bull to you? I haven't really been able to peg it, since I haven't been here that long, and you tend to call every dog hounds. Would the obviously mixed dogs pulled from fight busts, who have wins under their belt be considered 'real'? I don't, personally, many are obviously mixed. 
How about the ones who come from respectable, well known yards, end up in busts and yet are terrified of everything? People, places, things. Take them off the chain and out of the pit and they have a really hard time dealing with life on any level. They don't really fit my ideal of 'confident and courageous' The only courage they have is limited to that space they live in and the pit. Their reactions seem fueled, in actuality, by fear.
It becomes a very slippery slope to define 'real' when you have dissenting factions, as this breed does. Especially when you add in the creation of a whole new breed. I'm just interested in hearing yours.
This won't be a popular opinion, but the refusal of a large section of the APBT community to realize that the survival of the breed DEPENDS on finding LEGAL ways to showcase REAL dogs will lead to the demise of the APBT as we know it


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## ThaLadyPit

Kingsgurl said:


> I don't watch either of those two shows, given that I have little time for TV between the dogs and the internet, but I would grant that no show following my lowly rescue efforts would gather many ratings, pretty boring, ordinary, everyday crap. The media likes a hook.
> What, exactly IS a real pit bull to you? I haven't really been able to peg it, since I haven't been here that long, and you tend to call every dog hounds. Would the obviously mixed dogs pulled from fight busts, who have wins under their belt be considered 'real'? I don't, personally, many are obviously mixed.
> How about the ones who come from respectable, well known yards, end up in busts and yet are terrified of everything? People, places, things. Take them off the chain and out of the pit and they have a really hard time dealing with life on any level. They don't really fit my ideal of 'confident and courageous' The only courage they have is limited to that space they live in and the pit. Their reactions seem fueled, in actuality, by fear.
> It becomes a very slippery slope to define 'real' when you have dissenting factions, as this breed does. Especially when you add in the creation of a whole new breed. I'm just interested in hearing yours.
> *This won't be a popular opinion, but the refusal of a large section of the APBT community to realize that the survival of the breed DEPENDS on finding LEGAL ways to showcase REAL dogs will lead to the demise of the APBT as we know it*


:goodpost::goodpost: AMEN!


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## ThaLadyPit

Well, then according to you, everybody on this forum has bulldogs, and not what their paperwork says they have, be it APBT, AST or Am Bully. That's fine by me. I know what I feed, so that's all that matters to me.


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## redog

we can call them anything we want but why deny the label when yo wold get laughed out of the courtroom for tellin the judge that your bulldog is not a pitbull when its obvious characteristics are all there for them to say your a moron.english bulldogs, american bulldogs even catahoula bulldogs are bulldogs. NOTHING LIKE AN APBT WHAT SO EVER. thats laymans logic Bev.......


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## ThaLadyPit

redog said:


> *we can call them anything we want but why deny the label when yo wold get laughed out of the courtroom for tellin the judge that your bulldog is not a pitbull when its obvious characteristics are all there for them to say your a moron*.english bulldogs, american bulldogs even catahoula bulldogs are bulldogs. *NOTHING LIKE AN APBT WHAT SO EVER. thats laymans logic Bev.......*


:rofl::goodpost: Amen Dave! That's all it boils down to. The court room, judge, jury, attorneys, none of them care if the dog's been proven or not... if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck... must be a duck!


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## KMdogs

Of course but you also have to remember that the general public was never meant to understand these hounds let alone handle them. It boils down to whether you are "moving with the times" and view these dogs as the public perceives them OR if you view them according to what is "historically" accurate. A Bulldog had to earn the right to be called an American Pit Bull Terrier, it wasn't given.

Paperwork is paperwork, that is really a whole 'nother conversation all together. I know what i belief isn't "popular" nor do many really understand it. So of course, with that said it is easier for those to understand these hounds by going the easiest route to understand.. If the paperwork is APBT and it is in fact bred this way, it is. Not that what i am saying is hard of a concept, it isn't.. But it seems to be difficult for many for various reasons.


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## redog

i understand your way of thinking but there may only be about a few people in the world who do understand and can agree. the law is not one of them


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## ThaLadyPit

I too am able to comprehend what you're saying and why you're saying it KM, but like Dave said... the law don't. My papers say I have an APBT, and I'll leave it at that.


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## KMdogs

ThaLadyPit said:


> I too am able to comprehend what you're saying and why you're saying it KM, but like Dave said... the law don't. My papers say I have an APBT, and I'll leave it at that.


Any side of the discussion can be viewed with flaws. American Bullies, for instance are quite commonly papered as American Pit Bull Terriers.. The system, views them as "Pit Bulls" thus American Pit Bull Terriers.. So, why bother correcting if in the end the system (and much of the public) views them as one of the same anyway? ASTs, APBTs and AmBullies are probably THE most confused three breeds out there in defining what they are to those not in these dogs. People, news, court, etc get them confused all the time.. Hell, for that matter why correct people with mutts if the system says they look like a pit bull, act like a pit bull thus...

I'm not trying to get anyone on the same page as myself, we have our own views and can disagree and have good conversations and i feel we understand each others logic. It really boils down to self - foundation of basis. So while i am perfectly aware what i'm saying is "hard to get by", it needs to be said as well that just because the overwhelming amount of people think along these similar lines that you and dave are talking, doesn't make it any less confusing or fully accurate. Not in the entire picture.

The APBT will always be so long as the purpose remains instilled, otherwise the Bulldog will go back to the "original" foundation of purpose.. Look at Stans hounds for the perfect example. Probably one of (if not THE) best examples of Bulldogs prior to modernized [] breedings.


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## redog

this is where we tend to accept whats thrown in our face time after time, we get used to it i guess. It's the first thought that comes across the mind when when we see a loose dog. IS THAT A PITBULL? I dont know if it can be fixed or mind sets changed about what they're known as and why. All we can do at this point is to be responsible and to encourage others to be good dog owners.

p.s. I know its "pit bull" but its an example of what Im trying to say


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## Celestial88

Use them for whatever you like, as long as it's pro Pit bull of course


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## ThaLadyPit

Thank you Celeste! Look at Alice, happy as can be.

Just to update, I took Ices back to the park today (and the kids too), and it was packed because of the nice weather. We had a great time, and I even got several compliments from several different parents about how well behaved she was with their children. Kids were bum-rushing her left and right and petting her and saying how cute she was, and she never once jumped on them; rather, she just sat down, tail going 90 miles a minute, and took it all in. She is guilty of giving them a good tongue-bath though, lol. 

I did have some guy try to strike up a conversation with me about his 82 lb bitch, blue and white "pit" who's supposedly RE and Colby bloodlines. Then he proceeded to tell me he had a male "American Brindle"... I lol'd, and caught myself, explained to him there's no such breed or bloodline called that, and that brindle was just a color. As for his his RExColby bitch, I told him it sounded like he had a purebred couch potato on his hands, b/c those bloodlines were of two different breeds of dog. With that, he looked at me all dumbfounded and walked away. I did not encounter any other ignorance today, nor did we come across any prejudice as we did the last time we were there. 

My baby was very well behaved, explored new places today, and made mama proud.


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## angel3115

Well, it would always help to not scare the crap out of people new to the breed.... I am physically shaking and feeling sick right now after reading that 'must read' sticky topic. Okay, you want people to know that the apbt is not a poodle. I get that. However...

One of the things in that post said a dog kept inside is more likely to bite than one kept outside on a chain. The OP also said they enjoy fighting, which, okay, I get that one needs to stress animal aggression. As an owner of other animal aggressive breeds, I already know they are more difficult to handle when it comes to such things. I grew up around Brittney Spaniels, and yeah, big difference between them and a Karelian.

Basically, that sticky is making me really want to return Phantom to the shelter right now. We got him to be a family pet, of course knowing he has the potential to be animal aggressive, and having him wouldn't be a walk in the park. 

That sticky came across as now I have a ticking time bomb in my home that will probably one day viciously murder every other animal in the house no matter what I do, unless I keep him tied outside. The post says they need to have an outlet, but never says what kind of outlet would work. I either return him, or sign the death warrants of all of my other pets because of his strong instinct to fight.

All of the rest of the posts are saying they can be loving companions, so now I am both confused and upset. It's a sticky, and other people said it was a great post, so that alone is beginning to scare me off the breed. That may not have been the intent, but seriously, if that was the first article/blog/post I had come across, I would not have adopted this dog, and I would still be of the opinion they were dangerous animals. My mind was slowly changing, but now I'm not so sure.


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## rabbit

angel3115 said:


> Well, it would always help to not scare the crap out of people new to the breed.... I am physically shaking and feeling sick right now after reading that 'must read' sticky topic. Okay, you want people to know that the apbt is not a poodle. I get that. However...
> 
> One of the things in that post said a dog kept inside is more likely to bite than one kept outside on a chain. The OP also said they enjoy fighting, which, okay, I get that one needs to stress animal aggression. As an owner of other animal aggressive breeds, I already know they are more difficult to handle when it comes to such things. I grew up around Brittney Spaniels, and yeah, big difference between them and a Karelian.
> 
> Basically, that sticky is making me really want to return Phantom to the shelter right now. We got him to be a family pet, of course knowing he has the potential to be animal aggressive, and having him wouldn't be a walk in the park.
> 
> That sticky came across as now I have a ticking time bomb in my home that will probably one day viciously murder every other animal in the house no matter what I do, unless I keep him tied outside. The post says they need to have an outlet, but never says what kind of outlet would work. I either return him, or sign the death warrants of all of my other pets because of his strong instinct to fight.
> 
> All of the rest of the posts are saying they can be loving companions, so now I am both confused and upset. It's a sticky, and other people said it was a great post, so that alone is beginning to scare me off the breed. That may not have been the intent, but seriously, if that was the first article/blog/post I had come across, I would not have adopted this dog, and I would still be of the opinion they were dangerous animals. My mind was slowly changing, but now I'm not so sure.


The post isn't suppose to scare you. It is so you are aware of the possibilities if you don't feel you can handle your dog find him a home or someone that can. However if you find that you are up to the challenge and do not easily back down then by all means continue to read about the breed and continue in your preparation. The truth is that these dogs are not for everyone, but when they are in the hands of the right person then you will find that these dogs are the best dogs.


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## ames

Agreed. It's shame how many people don't research their dogs BEFORE getting them so they know what to expect. Is not that difficult to never leave your pets alone together and if there is a problem one day that you cant manage, crate and rotate. Find a great trainer tht specializes in your dogs issues. I have not re-read it the thread since it's old but if you don't let your dog live a sheltered life, ie only inside and only outside for bathroom, any dog could have issues. The key is making sure your dog is well socialized regardless of the breed. Take him places let him meet people and expeience all tupes of situations If you don't have a thick skin these are the wrong breed for you. We are on your side, we love our dogs and want to keep them safe against people who hate on them and try to use them as statistics. EVERY dog is different. It's common sense that will keep them safe. They are not ticking time bombs. They are dogs and every breed has individual quirks. Just like every dog might.


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## ThaLadyPit

angel3115 said:


> Well, it would always help to not scare the crap out of people new to the breed.... I am physically shaking and feeling sick right now after reading that 'must read' sticky topic. Okay, you want people to know that the apbt is not a poodle. I get that. However...
> 
> One of the things in that post said a dog kept inside is more likely to bite than one kept outside on a chain. The OP also said they enjoy fighting, which, okay, I get that one needs to stress animal aggression. As an owner of other animal aggressive breeds, I already know they are more difficult to handle when it comes to such things. I grew up around Brittney Spaniels, and yeah, big difference between them and a Karelian.
> 
> Basically, that sticky is making me really want to return Phantom to the shelter right now. We got him to be a family pet, of course knowing he has the potential to be animal aggressive, and having him wouldn't be a walk in the park.
> 
> That sticky came across as now I have a ticking time bomb in my home that will probably one day viciously murder every other animal in the house no matter what I do, unless I keep him tied outside. The post says they need to have an outlet, but never says what kind of outlet would work. I either return him, or sign the death warrants of all of my other pets because of his strong instinct to fight.
> 
> All of the rest of the posts are saying they can be loving companions, so now I am both confused and upset. It's a sticky, and other people said it was a great post, so that alone is beginning to scare me off the breed. That may not have been the intent, but seriously, if that was the first article/blog/post I had come across, I would not have adopted this dog, and I would still be of the opinion they were dangerous animals. My mind was slowly changing, but now I'm not so sure.


Angel, I'm sorry you feel confused and upset like you do. However, as was previously stated, the sticky thread was not intended to have such a reaction from you. It's an informative post with important information that all handlers/owners must be aware of. As for a dog being more likely to bite if it's an inside dog versus out on a chain, I'm not sure I agree with that statement. My dogs have always been inside dogs, and NEVER have I had an issue. I have 3 children ages 9,7, and 3. My oldest two (whom I share joint custody of with their father) have been raised around purebred and rescued APBTs and mixes thereof. They have a dog now, that my ex-husband and I got before our oldest daughter was born who is 11 yrs old and believed to be APBT/Chow/ACD (Australian Cattle Dog or Blue Heeler) mix. She distinguishes between children and adults when it comes to strangers and is loving of all children. She is DA, but it's managed correctly. It doesn't matter if she knows an adult or not, unless the girls' father is present, adults cannot approach my daughters due to her protective nature. The only person she's ever bitten was me, and that was truly an accident when she jumped on a male we had together. She went for him and grabbed my arm by mistake as I was picking him up out of the way. As soon as she realized it was my flesh in her mouth, she let go. She's never even so much as growled at any child, let alone my own.

I've had several different APBTs that were either show bred, working bred, or just pets, and their personalities were different, but underneath, I could always see the same characteristics. These dogs can be dangerous when in the wrong hands, like wanna be street thugs, imitation gangsters and these so-called "dogmen" of today that wanna roll their dogs in the back alley for a dime-sized rock of crack. However, the number of people that are responsible and loving enough to make their dogs part of the family and socialize and train their dogs far outweigh the number of people who own this breed as a status symbol.

As with any breed of dog, there are certain quirks that any owner new to the breed should be aware of. It's better to be safe than sorry, imo... so knowing the possibilities of what your dog is capable of and preparing yourself and preventing any possible issues is far more greater than just putting the dog on a pedestal and saying "Oh, he'd never do such a thing" and allowing him to run a muck or terrorize the neighborhood, even if he is just a big baby. While some dogs of this breed go their whole life without ever showing any aggression at all, others can be full on hot-headed and it takes an experienced owner to know how to handle that and re-direct the aggression in a positive manner. It doesn't mean that your dog will be hot-headed or want to kill every pet you own. It's just a precautionary statement.. like on a bottle of Tylenol it says to keep away from children and they put a child-proof cap on it, just in case. You are the "safety" for your dog's behavior and responses to it's everyday surroundings.

So many people get a dog first, and then decide to learn about the breed, and feel the same way you do right now. Unfortunately, we can't change that. The only one who can change your feelings/thought process is your own dog, and your willingness to train, love and own your dog responsibly. The finished product (your dog's behavior out in public, around children, strangers, other pets) will depend on the effort you put into training him. The more proactive you are about it, the better the results will be.

As for an outlet for these dogs to be relieved of everyday stresses would be mental stimulation like Obedience training. Also, you could work on physical exercise like Agility (which combines both Obedience and physically moving and thinking at the same time), spring pole for the dog to play tug of war by itself or a flirt pole for you to interact with him while he plays with his favorite rope or stuffed animal or rawhide. I am of the opinion that the more mental stimulation your dog receives from you, the better you can tire him out, and increase your bond with your dog. It's been proven time and again that a dog listens better to the person who has put in the work and time of training a dog, than it does to any other pack member. Get your family involved in the training, as well. Make it fun, make games out of the obedience lessons.

I do hope that you don't decide to return your dog to the shelter, and that you're willing to stick around and learn that these dogs aren't necessarily like any other dog, but they're not that much different either. Yes, some people do have multi-pet homes where their dogs live comfortably among cats, rats, snakes, chinchillas, birds, etc. and don't have an issue with their dogs preying on these other animals, but that's because more than likely, they've put the time into training their dogs that the other pets in the home are a part of the pack and have shown them what's okay and what's not okay to hunt.

Socialization is key, and it will get you and your dog further than just playing with him and loving on him, or tying him out and leaving him there b/c you're afraid of what he might do. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors and please keep us posted.


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## angel3115

I guess that particular post just came across to me the wrong way. My husband and I did do a little reading before bringing him home, and my husband met someone who keeps them online and was talking to the guy. 

After doing some thinking, if I can handle a dog breed that was bred to go toe to toe with grizzly bears, I think I can handle Phantom. Because of Gabby's animal aggression, we already take precautions like never leaving the dogs loose unattended. My husband has also started training our shepherd mix, who is very protective, to get between him and strange animals, because she has already decided he is her puppy.

He went to the vet yesterday for his free exam, and the vet gave us the number of a trainer. If we can scrape together the money, he's going to start puppy kindergarten next week. She usually takes younger puppies for that, but because of us just getting him and his breed she's going to make an exception so we can get him socialized. My husband has also been taking him for a run every morning, which he seems to love. He loves playing tug of war too. He killed Maggie's old rubber tire, so we got him a rope.


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## desertpits

*pit*

Running these dogs helps out a lot. I have a decent sized yard and just let a few of them out at a time. Sometimes I run/play with them. They are good together and listen really well when it's time to get back in the kennels/house. I do work with them though.


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## angel3115

So you guys know what I'm talking about when I mention the Karelian...






We disagree with the part about not being a good family dog. My husband has had them since he was in high school, and he brought them with him when he moved in with me. They just have to be well trained and under control, which his were. Sadly only Gabby is left of the original 4. So yeah, we figure Phantom will be like them minus the pack mentality.


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## ThaLadyPit

Yes, we're familiar with the Karelian as other members have discussed that breed, as well as numerous others bred for catching/fighting off bear and other large predatory type animals. That's wonderful that you already live the lifestyle you do with your dogs, so adding this boy to the pack shouldn't be that much of an issue. Also great to know that you're checking into signing up for obedience with a trainer. I recommend you post an Intro thread (if you haven't already), and post up some pics of your new addition (as well as the other pack members) so we can see  We love all breeds of dog here, and just about any other pet as well.


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## angel3115

Okay, I'm used to people going... huh? when I mention the breed. I will go post pics in in my intro thread.


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## redbirdclassic

For those who cannot view things outta the box will be doomed to be crushed within the box,simple understanding vs tv teachings outta rattle ones brains into trying to understand that this breed is not as bad as the misinformation would have us to deal with, if one does just a little research one would find a wealth of information that would be 100% opposite of the gross misinformation we see on tv and in other media outlets we have the ability to change the general view of the breed and show how misinformed and how misunderstood the breed is and has been. whats needed is to reach outside the box and spread the word using the power of social media and other powerful outlets to push the positive about the breed just as hard and all the people preach BS about the breed because sometimes you gotta get down and dirty before you can come up smelling as sweet as a rose!...............true beliver!


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## redbirdclassic

In reading the news feeds i came across the "Controversial Maryland pit bull law that my be challenged" and it caught my interest as well as garner a comment......WASHINGTON - When a Maryland court found that pitbulls were 'inherently dangerous,' landlords and dog owners worried they would both be presumed liable in any dog bite case. First off is landlords and or landowners didn't follow what they seen on tv or read on the net this would be a case in the first place all types of dogs bite, large ,small , cute ugly ,etc so that becomes a moot point also landlord don't have to rent to anyone with a pet of any type that also solves their problem have landowners who believe it's their given right to have any animal be it dogs lions or bats to have the land fences in to protect themselves from silly lawsuits and other dumb stuff .
But Maryland Delegate Lou Simmons says he has come up with a bill that could find a balance between victims of dog bites and dog owners. So how balance a bill such as this and be fair to the animal? answer...............you cannot! so where does this breed end up in 5, 10 or even 20 years ?


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## redbirdclassic

Went on a run with our dogs last night in the snow about a 200 yard run in about 6 inches of snow went up to the school out Ice (lol) didn't fare well in the snow at first she was fine the snow was something to play in .....until a gust of wind and blowing snow blew across the road and Ice flipped out turned me around and pulled me home i was slipping and sliding down the hill Ice didn't miss a beat she pulled me as though i was as light as a feather....lol Now our other dog Roller was the other way around he made sure we ran into every deep patch of snow he could find running and diving into the snow happy as a child let loose in a candy store Roller wanted to run and play so thats what he did he didnt want to come home loving the weather where as Ice let me no she was a summer baby didnt understand how and why we had to play in the snow,no big deal but the reactions of the 2 was as different as 2 dogs could be!


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