# Please help me, I am a newbie APBT owner



## Matt_Bates (Jul 5, 2010)

I apologize – this is quite a long post for such a basic question. I posted something similar in the general forum and figured this would be a better forum. 

I am a new APBT owner and have a brilliant, lovely 15 week old Female called Spikey. I am keen to learn about the breed and really take care of her – and ultimately raise a real fit, healthy, strong dog.

So far, I seem to be getting the feeding wrong and as I live in Thailand, the pet stores are not too great at dishing out advice.

I managed to get my hands on a 20kg bag of imported Eukenuba….. Puppy, large breed. I could not get medium breed. 

I feed her three times a day and depending on time of day mix with scrambled eggs and egg shells, a little veg and sometimes some tinned Pedigree Chum or Ceasers just to give a little gravy flavor. I only add a real small amount of Pedigree Chum or Ceasers.

Her poop is not solid, at times it’s just a ‘splat’. I used to feed her just Eukanuba and nothing else and then her poops were solid but now she won’t eat it unless its mixed with something.

Can anyone suggest the ultimate, premium most highly recommended food for a puppy her age? Price is not an issue and I will import it if they don’t sell it in Thailand. Also suggestion on what to mix with?

With the Eukanuba I give her now, is it ok to mix with a little chicken gravy? I mean the type of gravy we would have with a roast dinner?

Also is Eukanuba as good as I was led to believe? I can’t see it listed on the food rating sticky thread.

Many thanks

Matt


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

I feed raw so I can't give advice on the best dog food. If the puppy won't eat its food without it being mixed I would try this. Don't give any tablescrapes or any other food. Put down the dog food plain with nothing else added in it. Then after 10 min pick the food back up and if the pup didn't eat that is ok. Next feeding time do the same thing only dry food. The puppy won't starve itself. When it's hungry it will eat the dry food. Always provide fresh water in a separate dish.


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## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

I just responded to your other post, you should check that one as well, but this one seems to be asking a completely different question...
Anyway, from what I understand, Wellness and Blue Buffalo are very popular premium brands.
As far as I understand, both brands are grain-free which will eliminate any (potential) food allergies from ingredients such as corn, wheat, etc (which is #1 or #2 ingredient in lower-end foods).
I am a new APBT owner as well, but something I picked up on the forums (never crossed my mind before!!!) is to READ THE INGREDIENT LABEL on the dog food. Any good dog food will have ingredients on the website as well, as lesser amounts of grain is a huge selling point to 'in the know' dog owners. What you'll want to look for is something with grains (corn, wheat, etc.) either at the end of the ingredients list or not present at all.
Hope this helps you out!


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

so Eukanuba is an excellant fixed formula food and a great choice for your baby, your problem sounds like the extra addittives you've put in her food to make her eat. my advise would be to stick with the Eukanuba but stop the other, if your baby refuses to eat try something like chicken broth for gravey or get the Eukanuba lg breed puppy cans and mix that with some hot water to make a gravey the baby would enjoy but would still be getting the same foods so it shouldn't cause loose stools. if the stools are still loose in a few days i would bring her to the vet for an eval. thank you for reading and GOOD LUCK!!!


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

also i agree with the first response, only give the dry food for a a period of time then take it up then try again at the next feeding, your puppy will not starve herself and will get back on track with eating approriately. dry is the best as to not cause teeth problems in the future


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

IMO Eukanuba is not a great food and full of fillers. Basically you are paying for the name brand not the quality of food. Can you name off some foods you can get where you live? 
The fact you are adding in so much crap to the puppies food it doesn't surprise me she is picky at this point. I just started a thread call "puppies not eating well" please go read it as it talks about this. Also if you are feeding 3 times a day at 15 weeks that could be too much especially if she is not eating it all. My suggestion is to cut back to twice a day and that is safe to do at this age. My 12 week old puppies have been eating twice a day for 2 weeks already and doing very well. How much are you feeding at each meal?

Now lets talk about the stool not being solid. . Now it could be all the extra crap you are adding to the food and I guess the first thing you can try is to give only kibble. Stop with all the extras and just feed kibble (being the dry food you have already) twice a day and if she does not eat don't worry, she will eat when she is hungry. If her stool gets solid again then you know it was all that extra stuff you were adding. If not my guess is a bacterial over growth in the GI tract. This can be fixed with Albon or metronidazole but I would have a vet do a stool sample to see what meds to treat with. It is very common to get a bacteria over growth in the GI tract and it is easily fixed if treated with the right meds and sometimes can resolve on it's own but I would check with a vet. That should get you started and somethings to try, I will also put an article in here about how to start feeding puppies on a schedule and what to do if they do not eat, this is what I hand out to my puppy classes on our first night.

Feeding 

It’s important to make sure your meeting the nutritional requirements of your puppy. Puppies that are 6 to 8 weeks should be eating 3-4 times a day. After 8 weeks you can go to 3 times a day. Once a puppy is about 16 weeks old they can go to 2 times a day and continue through adulthood. Puppies should be kept on puppy food till at least 9-12 months of age. The size and breed of dog matters, ask your veterinarian what they recommend.

What food to buy? 

You want a good quality puppy food to provide the best nutrition for your growing puppy. Good quality does not always mean the most expensive. You do get what you pay for so stay away from foods like “Old Roy” or “Gravy Train”. You want to look at the ingredients and make sure to stay away from anything that does not specify the protein source. If it just says bone and meat meal it could be anything from processed euthanized animals (yes some food contain euthanized animals) to bird beaks and feet. Also look for fillers. Corn is used as filler and is not very digestible. Look for something like rice instead. 
We recommend Kirkland dog food from Costco. They have a great puppy food and have adult food in Lamb and Rice or Chicken and Rice. Kirkland is used by many breeders across the country and is our little secret for a great dog food at an affordable price.

Does my puppy need supplements?

The answer is yes and no. If you have a good balanced food there is no need to supplement. On the other hand, we do live in New Mexico and is very dry. If you notice a dry coat you can try adding fish oil to the dogs food. This will help keep the coat from drying out and give it a glossy look. A cheap solution for fish oil is the over the counter fish oil capsules at the pharmacy. They work great and most does love the little surprise in the food. 

How much do I feed my puppy?

You could go by the recommendations on the back of the dog food but most people will find that is too much. When your puppy is under 8 weeks let them eat till they are full. They need all the extra calories to grow. After 8 weeks for a medium size dog (when full grown) you can give ½ - ¾ cup 3 times a day. Look at your puppy and use your best judgment when adjusting the amount you feed. Increase or decrease by a ¼ cup. If they act whiny or starving all them time increase the amount you feed. If they are leaving food in the bowl, decrease the amount.



What about free feeding?

Free feeding is when you leave a bowl of food out all day and the dogs eat when they want. This works for some dogs but can lead to obesity. If you have multiple dogs this can cause fights and food aggression. Dogs should be feed in separate areas preferably in their crates. 

How to get your puppy in a routine for feeding. 

You should always measure your puppy’s food. It’s important to know how much they are eating. A pet food-measuring cup will give you an accurate idea of what you are giving your puppy. Don’t mistake puppy fat for obesity. It is very easy to overfeed your puppy and make them obese. Usually this can happen after 4 months of age. Their metabolism starts to change and it may be necessary to adjust the amount you feeding. When puppies are obese it can cause severe health risks including hip dysplasia from the extra weight. 
Start by offering food in the morning. Puppies are growing and will be hungry. Put the food on the floor/crate and leave it for 10 minutes. If they do not eat pick up the food and wait till the next scheduled time. Puppies under 16 weeks should get food again mid-day, over 16 weeks in the evenings. Puppies will usually not skip a meal this really applies to adults that are going on a new feeding schedule.

Getting your puppy on a feeding schedule just makes life easier and is a good way to monitor your dog’s weight. You should be able to feel ribs without having to push to hard. Most breeds will also have a tucked in waist. Example of breeds with no waist would be a bulldog.


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## Matt_Bates (Jul 5, 2010)

aimee235 said:


> I feed raw so I can't give advice on the best dog food. If the puppy won't eat its food without it being mixed I would try this. Don't give any tablescrapes or any other food. Put down the dog food plain with nothing else added in it. Then after 10 min pick the food back up and if the pup didn't eat that is ok. Next feeding time do the same thing only dry food. The puppy won't starve itself. When it's hungry it will eat the dry food. Always provide fresh water in a separate dish.


Thanks Aimee. I see the strategy.... Its making a point that "this is feed time, eat now or eat nothing". I guess she will soon learn that she has to eat it, or loose it.

Currently Im putting down dry food only. She looks at it, looks up at me as though to say "Are you having a laugh" and then skulks off. So I grab stuff to mix it with and she comes bounding back to eat.

With your methos your standing the ground and making it clear that if you dont eat it, you go hungry. I could see that working yah. Thanks for the tip.


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## Matt_Bates (Jul 5, 2010)

Aczdreign said:


> I just responded to your other post, you should check that one as well, but this one seems to be asking a completely different question...
> Anyway, from what I understand, Wellness and Blue Buffalo are very popular premium brands.
> As far as I understand, both brands are grain-free which will eliminate any (potential) food allergies from ingredients such as corn, wheat, etc (which is #1 or #2 ingredient in lower-end foods).
> I am a new APBT owner as well, but something I picked up on the forums (never crossed my mind before!!!) is to READ THE INGREDIENT LABEL on the dog food. Any good dog food will have ingredients on the website as well, as lesser amounts of grain is a huge selling point to 'in the know' dog owners. What you'll want to look for is something with grains (corn, wheat, etc.) either at the end of the ingredients list or not present at all.
> Hope this helps you out!


Thanks buddy I did just read your other reply, much appreciated. Ill do some research and see if Welness and BB are available in Bangkok possibly.

So grain is not a good thing? I didnt know that. Then again I know very little anyway.... Ill read the label. Just read the label - it has cornmeal, ground whole grain so thats not good.

It does have brewers dried yeast which I believe is quite good?

I am put off by 'chicken by product' that does not sound too great....


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## Matt_Bates (Jul 5, 2010)

Aireal said:


> so Eukanuba is an excellant fixed formula food and a great choice for your baby, your problem sounds like the extra addittives you've put in her food to make her eat. my advise would be to stick with the Eukanuba but stop the other, if your baby refuses to eat try something like chicken broth for gravey or get the Eukanuba lg breed puppy cans and mix that with some hot water to make a gravey the baby would enjoy but would still be getting the same foods so it shouldn't cause loose stools. if the stools are still loose in a few days i would bring her to the vet for an eval. thank you for reading and GOOD LUCK!!!


More great advice, thanks so much. I will try the chicken broth suggestion.... You mean the small square blocks of broth that you break up and mix with hot water yep?

That is actualy a very good idea indeed.

So theoreticly the Eukanuba alone should have everything a growing pup needs? I dont have to add anything else?


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## Matt_Bates (Jul 5, 2010)

Aireal said:


> also i agree with the first response, only give the dry food for a a period of time then take it up then try again at the next feeding, your puppy will not starve herself and will get back on track with eating approriately. dry is the best as to not cause teeth problems in the future


Thanks for the post. Yah that is a very good idea. I am thinking now actualy to mix with a little chicken broth. If at that point she sits there waiting for added tinned food I will pick the bowl up and make her wait till afternoon feed, just as suggested.

Thanks


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## Matt_Bates (Jul 5, 2010)

performanceknls said:


> IMO Eukanuba is not a great food and full of fillers. Basically you are paying for the name brand not the quality of food. Can you name off some foods you can get where you live?
> The fact you are adding in so much crap to the puppies food it doesn't surprise me she is picky at this point. I just started a thread call "puppies not eating well" please go read it as it talks about this. Also if you are feeding 3 times a day at 15 weeks that could be too much especially if she is not eating it all. My suggestion is to cut back to twice a day and that is safe to do at this age. My 12 week old puppies have been eating twice a day for 2 weeks already and doing very well. How much are you feeding at each meal?
> 
> Now lets talk about the stool not being solid. . Now it could be all the extra crap you are adding to the food and I guess the first thing you can try is to give only kibble. Stop with all the extras and just feed kibble (being the dry food you have already) twice a day and if she does not eat don't worry, she will eat when she is hungry. If her stool gets solid again then you know it was all that extra stuff you were adding. If not my guess is a bacterial over growth in the GI tract. This can be fixed with Albon or metronidazole but I would have a vet do a stool sample to see what meds to treat with. It is very common to get a bacteria over growth in the GI tract and it is easily fixed if treated with the right meds and sometimes can resolve on it's own but I would check with a vet. That should get you started and somethings to try, I will also put an article in here about how to start feeding puppies on a schedule and what to do if they do not eat, this is what I hand out to my puppy classes on our first night.
> ...


Excellent post thank you so much.

Actualy I now agree - Eukanuba is indeed not as great as I was led to believe. ACZDREIGEN suggested i read the label also and after doing so, it is full of filler.

Im shocked. In the UK Eukanuba is touted as a real premier dog food.

My local store has Royal Canin, Science Diet and Eukanuba. There are other cheaper brands but I can tell they are not good. They also of course sell all the usual tinned rubbish including one local Thai dog food for an amazing USD $25 Cents lol.

I was thinking of cutting back to be honest as she looks to be gaining weight to quickly and from tommorow onwards i will feed her around 9am and 6pm. Just two times. I currently feed three times a day 3/4 to one full cup, with all the mixers. Yep... clearly too much but thats why I joined this forum, to learn.

I like the fish oil tip. I have already dug out a jar of it and have put it in the draw for tommorow morning feed.

Out of Royal Canin, Science Diet and Eukanuba which would you choose or do you think they are all not too great?

Also - i always give an egg in the mornings. I was told by a friend that crushing the egg shell and throwing that in with the egg, scrambled, is good for the dogs coat. Any truth to this?


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## Aczdreign (Jun 15, 2010)

Just FYI--

You can use the multiquote feature to quote multiple posts in a single message, and then go type between them. 
The button is right next to the 'Quote' button, it says something like 'Multi +'.
Just go down and click em all, then quote on the last one that you need, and it will add them all to your response.
Welcome to the forum, it seems like a good place to be!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I would not do the raw egg fish oil is fine but really as a pup you do not need it and I would not use it till you clear up the lose stool issue. Out of your choices I would do the Royal Canin but first use what you have and ONLY do dry put nothing else in it and try 1 cup twice a day and see how that works out. When you get low on the Eukanuba then buy a bag of Royal Canin and mix it in to avoid your dog getting the runs again. BTW what type of Royal Canin formula is it? Eukanuba is not a horrible food but does have a lot of filler for the price they charge, if that is all you had to feed then I think would dog would do ok but if you have better choices then try them. The only thing I can suggest to help is adding a spoonful of yogurt to aid with digestion. Only a spoon full and only once a day and use the plain yogurt or vanilla if you can only find flavored yogurt. This could help build up the beneficial bacteria in the gut and help with the lose stool. Good luck I hope that helps!


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## Matt_Bates (Jul 5, 2010)

Aczdreign said:


> Just FYI--
> 
> You can use the multiquote feature to quote multiple posts in a single message, and then go type between them.
> The button is right next to the 'Quote' button, it says something like 'Multi +'.
> ...


LOLOLOLO sorry - it was looking a little crazy with all my posts. Got the multi G thing now, thanks 



performanceknls said:


> I would not do the raw egg fish oil is fine but really as a pup you do not need it and I would not use it till you clear up the lose stool issue. Out of your choices I would do the Royal Canin but first use what you have and ONLY do dry put nothing else in it and try 1 cup twice a day and see how that works out. When you get low on the Eukanuba then buy a bag of Royal Canin and mix it in to avoid your dog getting the runs again. BTW what type of Royal Canin formula is it? Eukanuba is not a horrible food but does have a lot of filler for the price they charge, if that is all you had to feed then I think would dog would do ok but if you have better choices then try them. The only thing I can suggest to help is adding a spoonful of yogurt to aid with digestion. Only a spoon full and only once a day and use the plain yogurt or vanilla if you can only find flavored yogurt. This could help build up the beneficial bacteria in the gut and help with the lose stool. Good luck I hope that helps!


More brilliant advice, thanks. I did like the idea of mixing in just a little chicken borth though.... Maybe it would be ok just to throw a little in?

I have a huge back of Eukanuba left - probably 16 kilos left in the bag. Ill go off and buy some Royal Canin tommorow and start mixing in in gradualy as you suggest. To be honest, ill probably move over to RC totaly by the end of the week. I'll donate the bag of Eukanuba to the local Temple. They always have at least 50 stray dogs kicking around.

The yogurt - should I buy the stuff that has the bacteria added? I forget the brand name now....


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Activia has good bacteria and if you can get it that is what I would use. No I would not add chicken broth because again she doesn't need it and it is high in fat and sodium. Sodium is not good for dogs and if she is having the runs the fat will not help. Stick to kibble and yogurt for now but that is JMO. I don't think switching over is a big problem however do it slowly so you do not upset the GI tract even more.
The chicken broth I would only use if I had a sick dog who is not eating and I need to give them more calories and entice them to eat. If you use chicken broth you are still adding to the problem of your picky eater.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

aimee235 said:


> I feed raw so I can't give advice on the best dog food. If the puppy won't eat its food without it being mixed I would try this. Don't give any tablescrapes or any other food. Put down the dog food plain with nothing else added in it. Then after 10 min pick the food back up and if the pup didn't eat that is ok. Next feeding time do the same thing only dry food. The puppy won't starve itself. When it's hungry it will eat the dry food. Always provide fresh water in a separate dish.


:goodpost::goodpost:
I had the same problem with Kangol a few years ago and I would follow Aimee's advice. This is what I did and it worked.


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