# Hello, I'm new



## RaynesMom (Jul 20, 2014)

Hi everyone, my name is Rebecca and I am new to both the forum and pit bull ownership. I have a background as both a Veterinary technician and, a non certified dog trainer. I have owned dogs all my life but, I avoided pit bulls because of their reputation. 3 months ago however, I took my girl Rayne off the streets. She was scrawny, shy, and, half feral. However she is now a healthy 9 month old with no fear and no aggression to any living thing. She learns commands fast and is toy driven yet gentle enough to play even with my cat.
I could not be more happy with her and I thank God I got her before some blood thirsty scumbag could use her as a bait dog.​


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Unfortunately there are a lot of myths put out there by people who love the bull breed dogs...one of those myths is that these dogs are not aggressive to other animals if "raised right." That is simply not true. The bull breed dogs were bred to combate eachother in the pit. YES that is what they were bred for. You can't tell a lab not to love water, a hound not to track and a German Shepherd not to be protective. It's how these breeds were bred, for a purpose of hunting, guarding, retrieving, etc. well many of the bull breed dogs orgins came from the American Pit Bull Terrier which was bred to combate and be aggressive to other DOGS. They were never supposed to be aggressive to humans. You can't train the aggression to other dogs and animal out -- however, it can be managed!  

You might not like the history but you to have a respect for it, in that a bull breed dog might one day decide it no longer likes the cat or its doggie friends. 

Another myth is the whole "bait dog" thing...you don't have to train bull breed dogs to fight. They do it on their own-- no need for a bait dog. 

Since your dog is simply a rescue from the side if the road, there's no telling what breeds she is mixed with or what she is. There are like 15-20 different breeds of dogs and mixes of each of these that are often called "pitbulls" because they have a similar look. It doesn't make them one though. 

Anyway, welcome to the forum! Take some time to poke around and read the "stickies" there is lots if great info here.  and if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask! 
And of course we'd love to see pics of your pup!


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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

Hello RaynesMom and welcome to the forum. Nice job on the rescue. We would love to see some pictures of Rayne when you get a chance.

Joe


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## RaynesMom (Jul 20, 2014)

::::COACH:::: said:


> Unfortunately there are a lot of myths put out there by people who love the bull breed dogs...one of those myths is that these dogs are not aggressive to other animals if "raised right." That is simply not true. The bull breed dogs were bred to combate eachother in the pit. YES that is what they were bred for. You can't tell a lab not to love water, a hound not to track and a German Shepherd not to be protective. It's how these breeds were bred, for a purpose of hunting, guarding, retrieving, etc. well many of the bull breed dogs orgins came from the American Pit Bull Terrier which was bred to combate and be aggressive to other DOGS. They were never supposed to be aggressive to humans. You can't train the aggression to other dogs and animal out -- however, it can be managed!
> 
> You might not like the history but you to have a respect for it, in that a bull breed dog might one day decide it no longer likes the cat or its doggie friends.
> 
> ...


I am sure that you are quite knowledgeable about pit bulls, but one thing I have learned about dogs is that breed or no breed, a dog is just a dog. A lab may love the water but, without training will he automatically fetch the duck you shoot? A shepherd may have the instinct to protect but, without training will he know to protect you? Pit bulls were bred to fight yes, but under my training she has learned to direct those instincts towards her toys. Aggression towards people or dogs will get her pinned on her side. I am a firm trainer and she has done beautifully. Pit bulls often get a bad reputation either because they get no training or the wrong kind of training. Also, if bait dogs are a myth why do 
Dogmen use them? And what about the term Cur, a game dog who doesn't have enough fight in it is called a Cur and are often destroyed. I cannot upload pics of my dog as all I have is my phone.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

a game dog is a game dog,

and a cur is a cur,

you can not take a cur and make it a game dog....................

but you can make a game dog lose its will to continue on.

on any given day, they'll all quit.............

and no reputable dogmen use 'bait' dogs,

dosent do any good teaching your dog how to quit.

now there is a term called 'roll dog'

thats one thats hopefully dosent have much hardware,

but one that can put some heat on the one you have in school,

without breaking his spirit. but teaching him how to do it.............


or at least i read that somewhere


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## RaynesMom (Jul 20, 2014)

surfer said:


> a game dog is a game dog,
> 
> and a cur is a cur,
> 
> ...


Reputable dog man? Didn't think such a thing existed. It makes perfect sense to train out a behavior that goes against an animals best interest. I have multiple rescues, small children and, horses which I also train. If Rayne had refused to accept my leadership and give up her fighting instinct, I couldn't have kept her.
I


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

RaynesMom said:


> Reputable dog man? Didn't think such a thing existed. It makes perfect sense to train out a behavior that goes against an animals best interest. I have multiple rescues, small children and, horses which I also train. If Rayne had refused to accept my leadership and give up her fighting instinct, I couldn't have kept her.
> 
> I


You would have gotten rid of your dog for doing what it was bred to do? Sounds like you have the wrong breed. You can't "alpha" out genetic traits. You may think you have, but you'll surely be sorry for thinking it some day.


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## RaynesMom (Jul 20, 2014)

BCdogs said:


> You would have gotten rid of your dog for doing what it was bred to do? Sounds like you have the wrong breed. You can't "alpha" out genetic traits. You may think you have, but you'll surely be sorry for thinking it some day.


Would I have gotten rid of a stray liability? Yes I would've. It sounds to me as though you think if you're not fighting pits you shouldn't own them. Perhaps Rayne is a mix or maybe she is a fluke of the breed but she has not shown one spark of aggression. Whatever the case, this forum clearly supports dog fighting so, I won't be back.


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

RaynesMom said:


> Would I have gotten rid of a stray liability? Yes I would've. It sounds to me as though you think if you're not fighting pits you shouldn't own them. Perhaps Rayne is a mix or maybe she is a fluke of the breed but she has not shown one spark of aggression. Whatever the case, this forum clearly supports dog fighting so, I won't be back.


We do not support dog fighting, but we respect the history of the breed. Dog aggression is common and normal, if your dog doesn't have any DA tendencies then consider her a lucky exception to the rule. A DA Pit Bull is only a liability in the hands of someone who doesn't know and understand how to manage it appropriately. My male is dog aggressive but he will never have the chance to get into a fight because I keep him properly contained at all times. Thinking you can change genetics is a dangerous mindset to have with these dogs. Sounds like YOU are the liability for your pet. I suggest you read up on the history of the breed and prepare yourself for if your dog ever decides she doesn't like other dogs anymore. To get rid of a fighting breed for fighting is doing a huge disservice to your animal. And by the way, dog aggression commonly begins at sexual maturity. Just because your 9 month old pup is good with other dogs right now doesn't mean she'll stay that way. Between 1-3 is when they may "turn on" but it could happen at any time.


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

RaynesMom said:


> Would I have gotten rid of a stray liability? Yes I would've. It sounds to me as though you think if you're not fighting pits you shouldn't own them. Perhaps Rayne is a mix or maybe she is a fluke of the breed but she has not shown one spark of aggression. Whatever the case, this forum clearly supports dog fighting so, I won't be back.


???
facepalm.


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## STiLL WILL (May 1, 2013)

RaynesMom said:


> Whatever the case, this forum clearly supports dog fighting so, I won't be back.


Ignorance much?


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

i said nothing that cant be verified, by ding some research on the history 
of the breed.

and yes, there have been reputable breeders with these animals.

this is a 'world wide' forum and 

noy everyone in the world has the same veiws as us........................

in some countries it is perfectly legal to contest your dogs.


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

RaynesMom said:


> I am sure that you are quite knowledgeable about pit bulls, but one thing I have learned about dogs is that breed or no breed, a dog is just a dog.


Yet another intelligent individual scared off of our forum. C'mon guys, she was pretty smart too (from her responses sans the fighting thing)

I see these posts waaay to often, and have for well over a year now. I have mixed feelings about this forum and it's member's knowledge in return. I will say that quite a few people on here totally miss the mark and spew misinformation all bc they are gung-ho on some fantasy mindset that THEIR dog is the staple and poster-child for the breed. And how THEIR dog reacts/doesn't react and behaves is how "ALL dog's of this "breed" behave. In a way, it's a mindset of racial thinking. Stereotyping. We won't get into that though.

RaynesMom is absolutely right that a dog is just a dog. People want to feel like they and their dog(s) are bigger or more special than what the reality is...

I get that everyone wants to error on the side of caution with those wanting to learn but the jist of responses to new members is unfortunately, all geared towards how "aggressive" the breed is when in reality, half of you don't even know what "breed" you're referring to. I could go on all day. I will however leave out those members on here who have true, paper-ed APBT's and speak from experience about the HISTORY of the/their breed/behaviors. Fact of the matter is, that's about 2% of this forum's members. (and if it was up to the forum members that % would be 90% lol. It's comical)

I'll leave you all with these two quotes, take them as you will.

*"There are two temptations to which people fall prey with dogs. The first is to think that biology counts for everything. The second is to think it counts for nothing."*

"We wound up taking him to a canine behaviorist at the University of Georgia, who spent four hours with him and said, "He's a great dog" while assuring us that *he was a dog before he was a pit bull.*"

"We are not a pure country or a country that values purity. We are a country of adoption, a country of rescues, a country of mutts. At least that's how we like to think of ourselves. *But we are also a country that likes to create idylls of its own good intentions and then penalize what doesn't fit. Pit bulls don't fit."*

Keep an open mind people, the world, and this forum for one will be a better place.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I agree with Stephan and you that a dog is a dog is a dog. All need to be looked at as individuals, you can't assume every dog will be the same even if they happen to look alike. But I also know where Surfer and Coach are coming from and agree with them as well. I'm sure once you get familiar you will realize we all want what's best for any targeted dog, no matter what their breed is. People shouldn't get scared off a forum for sharing information. People are allowed to agree or disagree.

It took me a long time to accept the difference between a dog fighter and a dog man. But I have met a few dog men and I see how much they love, care and respect their dogs. There is a difference and Raynesmom said she has avoided dogs targeted as "pit bulls" because of their reputation. Obviously new to the breed she doesn't even know how we view pit bulls, as a breed not a classification or a type. Dog men would never use a bait dog. Dog men fought dogs legally with rules and for a purpose. Even if you disagree or not that was the purpose the breed was created for. Same with grey hounds or horse racing. Many animals are bred for humans to compete with. Dog fighters are current day people who illegally fight dogs. They have no idea what rules apply and ignorantly use bait dogs thinking that's how it's done. It never was. It's abuse and deplorable and we all agree on that. Current day dog fighters have no clue and neither does most of society. I don't agree with dog fighting, by anyone. But that is my opinion. I also don't like horse and greyhound racing. Rodeos, zoos, aquariums, hunting for trophy only, cock fighting I can go on and on. But that's just my opinion not anything more.

Raynesmom welcome to the forum. Please look around and ask questions. You may not like the answer but it's the only way to learn. Please post up a picture of your pup. And thank you for saving your pup.

Sent from Petguide.com App so please excuses the typos


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Hey now,I'm don't think I said anything to scare her off...I thought I was really nice yet just informed her of the myths that well-meaning people put out there. 
These are the people who think that their pitbull will always just love their little chihuahua and then one day they leave the house for a few minutes with them together and come back to a dead chihuahua...and then the poor pitbull gets tossed in the shelter and labeled "very aggressive and dangerous" when in fact that dog would most likely never hurt a person, they just don't like other animals. 
Yes a dog is still just a dog....but those dogs have instincts bred into them that may or may not surface and people need to realize this and be responsible. Otherwise our breed will continue to suffer. Many folks on this forum have never even SEEN a real true APBT. I socialized the heck out of my two adults and they still don't like other dogs. And currently I bring my pup everywhere, let her play with any friendly dog she meets but I'm not blind to the fact that I know her pedigree history and the dogs behind her and know most likely that she will one day not like other dogs either. 

That being said, I've met plenty of shelter and non pedigreed "bull breeds" (most people would call pitbulls) that are great with other dogs and I can see why people would want to think the opposite of what I said. But I've also known plenty of those that still didnt like other animals...and of course folks always label that dog as abused or a bait dog or whatever...when it's simply not true. 

You can't stop a bloodhound from having the nitch to want to track things--- those dogs track stuff on their own and as young puppies! Yes people have to teach them what specific thing they want them to track but that is just using the dogs born in nature. 

I don't see anything wrong with what I said....I was just trying to be helpful....I never want to do anything that scares folks off.


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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

::::COACH:::: said:


> Hey now,I'm don't think I said anything to scare her off...I thought I was really nice yet just informed her of the myths that well-meaning people put out there.
> These are the people who think that their pitbull will always just love their little chihuahua and then one day they leave the house for a few minutes with them together and come back to a dead chihuahua...and then the poor pitbull gets tossed in the shelter and labeled "very aggressive and dangerous" when in fact that dog would most likely never hurt a person, they just don't like other animals.
> Yes a dog is still just a dog....but those dogs have instincts bred into them that may or may not surface and people need to realize this and be responsible. Otherwise our breed will continue to suffer. Many folks on this forum have never even SEEN a real true APBT. I socialized the heck out of my two adults and they still don't like other dogs. And currently I bring my pup everywhere, let her play with any friendly dog she meets but I'm not blind to the fact that I know her pedigree history and the dogs behind her and know most likely that she will one day not like other dogs either.
> 
> ...


Good post!

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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

Totally not geared at you Coach! :angel: I was more or less speaking on my experience of how potential new members (potential because they join then leave after 2 posts) are jumped on (by anyone here) with the first thing they see being, "our dogs are not friendly etc..."

It may not be literal, but that is for sure the "take home". Chit, it happened to me when I first came on here. I was much less educated on the breed and MY DOG SPECIFICALLY but I was for sure getting the notion that this site was for those who want to "boast" about their "muscular dog" and how "game" their dog is blah blah. Chit's for the birds. 

Was aggression bred in to the APBT? Absolutely. Turn on the TV, they'll tell ya :snow:oke::snow: But I would bet my house that RaynesMom does NOT own a APBT. So here she is....sitting here...having people tell her what HER dog IS and how HER dog WILL act when in reality, none of you have a clue (unless you know her or her dogs.) 

It's one thing to mention the aggressive piece, but another to dwell on it.....

For example, my friend just got a Labrador puppy....he's a total ass and has already nipped at Luna numerous times. I know the potential outcomes and even though Luna is the BIGGEST SOFTY EVER (borderline therapy dog bc of her temperament) I don't dismiss what could happen. Funny thing is, we all know labs are A$$holes (jk - kinda) but if you go on ANY LABRADOR forum, aggression is not the "take home". Hopefully I am making sense here! :love2:


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Ok coooooool! I always try to be welcoming and not jam stuff down folks throats but sometimes...when certain claims are made I just can't help myself! Lol! The thing is, I love all the bull breeds and it kills me to see folks try to make them out to be an animal loving-golden retriever  (because yes, labs can be a-holes) sure there are many that DO love other animals but like Stephan said, most likely they are not even APBTs...
I guess the most important thing for people to learn right away is WHAT they actually have, if they don't know how their dog is bred, it's really a toss up. Could be a pit/sight hound/BM cur for all we know...  plus the farther away from the original purpose the dog is bred, the less likely it is to carry the more classic traits.


Off topic but my sister has 3 labs and guess what... The females hate eachother. They have gotten into multiple fights- stitches, drainage tubes needed.


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

Personally, I see nothing in this thread that should be interpreted as unwelcoming. Coach cut to the chase and provided good information right off the bat. I questioned why someone would get a fighting breed if they're not only not prepared for them to be DA, but would actually get rid of the dog for it. 

When I started researching the breed a few years ago, I was exactly like every other clueless "advocate" out there. I had no idea about DA because I'd only been reading the fluffy stuff that extreme Pit Bull fur mommies put out there. Had I not done my own research and come to my own conclusions, I could have been a really, terribly unprepared dog owner. And trust me, I had my ass handed to me by knowledgable APBT owners a few times before I figured out even the basics. I still learn every day. Had I tucked my tail and ran the other way, I'd be missing out. So people that own these dogs need to grow a pair. Our dogs have a bad rap and for that reason we try and educate as much as possible whenever possible. Just because it comes over a little harsh doesn't mean we're being dicks, it just gets frustrating to see people day in and day out who perpetuate the myths by not taking responsibility for what their animals are capable of. 

/end rant.


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

BCdogs said:


> I questioned why someone would get a fighting breed


A fighting breed aye? oke: Interesting choice of words.

Let me ask you (And I'm not being a di>^) do you own an APBT? or just the "APBT" that the masses and news say you have...:thumbsup:

Furthermore, do you know what breed the OP's Reyna is? Exactly, so you shouldn't be saying her Reyna is an aggressive dog.


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

Stephan said:


> A fighting breed aye? oke: Interesting choice of words.
> 
> Let me ask you (And I'm not being a di>^) do you own an APBT? or just the "APBT" that the masses and news say you have...:thumbsup:
> 
> Furthermore, do you know what breed the OP's Reyna is? Exactly, so you shouldn't be saying her Reyna is an aggressive dog.


When did I ever say her dog was aggressive? ... I didn't. I told her that her dog COULD become DA once she matures. Is that an incorrect statement? Nope. Is it ridiculous for someone to own a bull breed dog and think they can "pin her on her side" as the OP put it, and expect that to fix dog aggression? Yes.

No purebred APBTs here. I don't really see why that's relevant, though. Everything that I said is a possibility when owning any bull breed/mix/what-have-you. And shit, any dog of ANY breed can be DA. My male is nowhere near an APBT and he is definitely dog aggressive. I don't blame him for that nor do I try and fix it like it's some unacceptable trait that requires me "being the pack leader" and all that crap. I don't like all humans so I don't see why he should have to like all dogs. I just focus on training him to minimize his reactivity and prevent him from ever being put into a situation where he would get into a fight.


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

You are right you did not say that Reyna was aggressive, I just assumed from your stance and usage of the term "fighting dogs" that you were implying that Reyna "fit the bill"! Ya know....bc the OP says that she now has a "Pit Bull" that she stated she got off the streets. So by definition, if she said she has a "Pit Bull" and you say that's a "fighting breed" then you can do the math. Or not. 

At the end of the day I feel (and again, just my opinion) that instead of enjoying our dog's (like others do) many on here are only fixated on the "negatives" . And it just so happens that the "negatives" for this specific type of dog have now become the "take home message" to an entire breed (based on physical traits) resulting in (most times even false) euthanasia. No one is advising not to voice potential concerns...but these concerns come with ANY breed of dog ownership so.........why people on this site find it necessary to exploit or scare/misinform and dwell on these concerns is laughable. Actually, wrong word, pathetic. Epidemic is another word that comes to mind.

And then there are people like Coach and Ames who "understand" both sides of it all! I am by no means an activist nor am I a fur-daddy, I'm a realist. I call it how I see it, not how I hear it. 

It is this "glorification" of a breed, or rather a behavior, that has brought us to our current societal state regarding a DOG that 90% of people on here don't have a lick of knowledge about! (Again, I am not speaking on those who know their ish) So ya, it's reeaaaal smart to non-stop batter new forum members with the aggression thing. Congrats! That same uneducated 90% just got some more validation by visiting our oh-so sweet forum!

People can accept or be ignorant to the fact that the bulk of the posts on this site are viewed from the outside as propaganda for BSL. Soooo you know who are peeps, go ahead and keep beating that dead horse with "If it's got a block head and has visible muscles then BEWARE!" thing and that's "all you need to know". Real smart. That's just what the media wants to hear (and see from its owners).

Sorry for the rant. I by no means intend to point out anyone in this thread as being one of these ignorant I speak of! More of a general rant.


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

Unfortunately, I think that you've completely misinterpreted my intentions and point of view. It's very hard to determine these things over a quick post on the internet. I'd definitely be interested in discussing our opinions through PM but I think I've stated all that I felt was relevant for this particular thread and the comments from the OP.


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

BCdogs said:


> Unfortunately, I think that you've completely misinterpreted my intentions and point of view. It's very hard to determine these things over a quick post on the internet. I'd definitely be interested in discussing our opinions through PM but I think I've stated all that I felt was relevant for this particular thread and the comments from the OP.


My post was not geared at you whatsoever. Just a general rant as I'm sick of people getting scared off of this forum all because it's members think people need "thicker skin".

the first paragraph was geared towards you

Edit: Let me re-phrase as after reading my posts I realize that I am coming off very aggressive  I definitely agree with you on the intentions on the internet posts etc..I am just passionate about dogs in general so I apologize If I came off aggressive to you in particular!


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

No, that's fine. I'm always up for a healthy debate and being passionate about these dogs is exactly what causes some threads to get heated in the first place.


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

BCdogs said:


> No, that's fine. I'm always up for a healthy debate and being passionate about these dogs is exactly what causes some threads to get heated in the first place.


Very true! :cheers: Sorry again, I'm on edge today and that's my problem


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

Preachin to the choir!


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

ignorance is bliss............

thats until someones dog or worse someones child gets mauled,

or worse.

then you hear, 'he's NEVER' acted that way before.

or, i just wish someone would have been straight up with me,

and set me straight.

now, your going to court trying to defend your dog.

i'm not saying that bulldogs are blood thirsty killers,

but, once that same dog fully matures, then survival of the breed comes into play,

that same male wants to pass his genes on to keep his own bloodline going.

a female in heat, a male can tell from 5miles away,

now you get 2 males together, and they both want to pass their genes on,

do you think they sit down and drink a beer and talk about it,

NO!!!!!!!!!!!

one tries to establish dominance over the other, and if one of those males is a bulldog,
and one is a lab,

what do you think is gonna happen???????????


one is mike tyson, and the other is peewee herman,

both want to breed but only one can.

all i'm saying is, if your gonna own a 'bulldog' breed be RESPONSIBLE,

and dont mess it up for the ones that have a lifetime with these dogs,

just saying......................


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## smkymntn (Mar 5, 2014)

When I came on here I was glad that everyone old me not to trust a pit bull not to fight. Yes I have a mix breed but she does have pit bull in her I assume. I would rather know and be take the necessary precautions then act like my dog is not capable to not do those things. Yes all dogs can become dog aggressive but pit bulls a little more so. And they already have a bad name. So why be ignorant and add to this bad image cause I didn't take heed and listen.

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## ~StangChick~ (Jan 1, 2009)

smkymntn said:


> When I came on here I was glad that everyone old me not to trust a pit bull not to fight. Yes I have a mix breed but she does have pit bull in her I assume. I would rather know and be take the necessary precautions then act like my dog is not capable to not do those things. Yes all dogs can become dog aggressive but pit bulls a little more so. And they already have a bad name. So why be ignorant and add to this bad image cause I didn't take heed and listen.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Would be great if everyone that joined understood like you but it won't happen.

They want to believe their dog would never harm anything....and a lot of times they wont but why not just be safe?


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

smkymntn said:


> When I came on here I was glad that everyone old me not to trust a pit bull not to fight. Yes I have a mix breed but she does have pit bull in her I assume. I would rather know and be take the necessary precautions then act like my dog is not capable to not do those things. Yes all dogs can become dog aggressive but pit bulls a little more so. And they already have a bad name. So why be ignorant and add to this bad image cause I didn't take heed and listen.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Jesus. It never ends.

A better phrase would be, "Never trust a DOG not to fight..." since it seems you are glorifying the aggressive "pit bull" bit once again.

So "pit bulls" are more aggressive than other dogs aye? You must be a scientist...or let me guess, someone told you that or you read it somewhere? 
Please don't spew misinformation Sherlock.

Check temperament tests on "pit bulls". Fact. Not opinion.

You guys are hilarious. I just hope people don't come on here and take your posts and repeat them to other human beings 

A vicious cycle I say.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

I believe what smkymnt was saying was that one should never assume that when they own ANY bull breed dog - that they should never trust that it is always going to love other animals. Never be blind to the fact that bull breed dogs, were bred for many years to be aggressive to other animals, not just dogs. Some bull breeds baited bulls, bears etc. 

That is what I believe he was trying to say. Sure any DOG can be aggressive to another animal BUT the fact is, is that bull breed dogs ARE typically far more aggressive to OTHER ANIMALS (not people) than any other breeds of dog. And he was just saying that even though he doesn't know for sure his dogs genetic make up, most likely there is some bull breed in there so he would rather be cautious and watch his dog around other animals.

Sure any breed can be aggressive to other animals... Also these temperament tests done on "pit bulls"-- were they actual purebred bull breeds or were they random bred/shelter dogs?

Until you see it for yourself, sometimes it's difficult to understand...


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## ~StangChick~ (Jan 1, 2009)

When it comes to dog aggression yes they are known to be. Not saying other dogs are not by why not just play it safe? My dog gets along with some dogs and others he wants to tear apart. Just keep em safe and secure. What is wrong with that? I think you are getting upset over nothing. Chill.


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

::::COACH:::: said:


> I believe what smkymnt was saying was that one should never assume that when they own ANY bull breed dog - that they should never trust that it is always going to love other animals. Never be blind to the fact that bull breed dogs, were bred for many years to be aggressive to other animals, not just dogs. Some bull breeds baited bulls, bears etc.
> 
> That is what I believe he was trying to say. Sure any DOG can be aggressive to another animal BUT the fact is, is that bull breed dogs ARE typically far more aggressive to OTHER ANIMALS (not people) than any other breeds of dog. And he was just saying that even though he doesn't know for sure his dogs genetic make up, most likely there is some bull breed in there so he would rather be cautious and watch his dog around other animals.
> 
> ...


What haven't I seen? Please tell me.

I get the breeding/game dog concept etc. It's not a hard concept. Using caution with any dog should be common sense. Unfortunately it is not. You stated "BUT the fact is, is that bull breed dogs ARE typically far more aggressive to OTHER ANIMALS" <---where are you getting this FACTUAL information from? I'd love to read it!



~StangChick~ said:


> When it comes to dog aggression yes they are known to be. Not saying other dogs are not by why not just play it safe? My dog gets along with some dogs and others he wants to tear apart. Just keep em safe and secure. What is wrong with that? I think you are getting upset over nothing. Chill.


I'm really not upset, just annoyed  And absolutely, people should always play it safe. My dog has not had an incident in the almost 2 years that I have had her! Now that doesn't mean one day she won't snap or react to anther dog's disposition...the point I am trying to make is, you guys are too gung ho on aggression and it's part of the problem, not the solution.


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

stephan, how bout this,
STFU,
do you understand that????????????????????????????

i've been raising 'apbt's' for over 30yrs,

and if you think you have a apbt, that is not going to be aggressive to other dogs,

then you dont have an apbt, you have,

A STONE COLD CUR, 
that no dogperson would own,

whether you believe it or not,
these dogs, at one time were bred to be aggressive towards other dogs,

if they werent, they didnt make the cut...........

what you dont realize is not only are you embarassing yourself,
your embarassing, those close to you,

they just dont know it.

before you got involved with this breed, i wish you would've done more research,

the 'jist' of what everyone is trying to say is,

why not just be safe??????????


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

surfer said:


> stephan, how bout this,
> STFU,
> do you understand that????????????????????????????
> 
> ...


i like surfer.:clap:


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

surfer said:


> stephan, how bout this,
> STFU,
> do you understand that????????????????????????????
> 
> ...


Go to bed old man. Chit has changed since you woke up. I could tear apart your post here but your vocab tells me you're not intelligent enough to have a conversation.



JoKealoha said:


> i like surfer.:clap:


You like surfer because you're another sheep in the herd. Run along. Ignorance loves company, and you're great company!


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

Before I start getting really blunt, I'll remove myself from the forum. I love stopping by every now and again to see that nothing has changed though! It's entertaining. Gd luck everyone!


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

Stephan said:


> You like surfer because you're another sheep in the herd. Run along. Ignorance loves company, and you're great company!


i understand you want someone to cite factual evidence for dog aggression. and without it, you refuse to believe it exists as distinctive characteristic of the breed.
but i choose to listen to those with knowledge and personal accounts. a long history of hands on experience is the most valuable resource for me to learn from. surfer is only one of many here at GP with a wealth of knowledge. and i am fortunate that he takes the time to share that with me.
that is why i like surfer.
... but please continue your name calling. it's the most effective strategy you have.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Stephan said:


> What haven't I seen? Please tell me.
> 
> I get the breeding/game dog concept etc. It's not a hard concept. Using caution with any dog should be common sense. Unfortunately it is not. You stated "BUT the fact is, is that bull breed dogs ARE typically far more aggressive to OTHER ANIMALS" <---where are you getting this FACTUAL information from? I'd love to read it! QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

My son and I have alot of fun hunting with our old dog. I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for a bulldog that didn't have fight in him.


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

::::COACH:::: said:


> I do not believe you have had a bull breed dog that has ever "turned on" --
> 
> Just walk into the shelter and see all of the signs that say "no other dogs in home please" in order to adopt this dog, etc. it's pretty much known to the world that these dogs typically have aggression to other animals... Not sure how you missed that.


You're absolutely right I do NOT own a bull breed dog that has turned on. I guess that puts me in the "doesn't know chit" category...ya know, bc you have to own one to KNOW FOR SURE. Newsflash, I, and my dog, are around more dogs, aggressive and non-aggressive on a daily basis than most. Trust you me.

For some odd reason (that is beyond me), you all think that I don't "understand" what you're saying.....when the reality is I just don't agree with you.

And I'm assuming it never occurred to you that most likely those "pit bulls" in the shelter you speak could have been abused or TAUGHT to be aggressive. Once again, everyone on this site takes genetics as the end-all as to the cause of all aggression.

I'd love to have a conversation on all of this but honestly there are waaay too many narrow minds on here. I see all sides...from everyone, just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm being ignorant


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

Stephan said:


> You're absolutely right I do NOT own a bull breed dog that has turned on. I guess that puts me in the "doesn't know chit" category...ya know, bc you have to own one to KNOW FOR SURE. Newsflash, I, and my dog, are around more dogs, aggressive and non-aggressive on a daily basis than most. Trust you me.
> 
> For some odd reason (that is beyond me), you all think that I don't "understand" what you're saying.....when the reality is I just don't agree with you.
> 
> ...


I thought you were leaving?


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

hashbrown said:


> I thought you were leaving?


Just doing my due diligence to try and save some Maladaptive learning here :hug:

Edit: But I can see no one is open to hearing anything that contradicts their "beliefs" so I'll leave you Scholars to yourselves 

You can go ahead and stroke each others ego's now!


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

It doesn't put you in that category  I was just hoping you were confused and didn't understand what I was saying. But hey it's fine to disagree with someone, then just say it. We can all agree to disagree on stuff. People can choose to listen to those who have been around the dog for many years -decades or folks new to the breed with a different viewpoint. 
Physical Abuse causes fear aggression, which is very different from a dog that is DA. Speaking of shelter dogs, I have a story about one! About 6 years or so ago my uncle was on vacation and had his neighbor watch their bull breed dog. He has had this dog since a pup, socialized it, fed it the best food, kept him nice and trim. etc. it just didnt like other dogs. Well during the vacation, the neighbor accidently left the gate part way open and he got out. Animal control picked him up. the neighbor tried to go get him but the AC people told her she couldnt pick him up, the owner had to come and that dog was starving, and possibly being trained to fight as he was aggressive towards other dogs in the kennel...

So basically they fabricated an abuse case when in reality the dog was a healthy weight and taken well care of! No abuse whatsoever! Now, there are many dogs that ARE abused out there but environment isn't the only factor for aggression. 
I believe environment and genetics can play a part. It could be one or the other, or a mix of both. For my dogs it would be genetics. They have not be abused or "taught" any sort of aggression. I had a foster dog once that was human/fearful aggressive. I got him off the side of the road from a lady who told me her son was beating him in their barn and she couldn't take it anymore...dog was covered in welts. That would be a case of environment induced aggression


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

But hey I'd love to hear your take on bull breed dogs...and what they are, their traits, etc. speak now or forever hold your peace! LOL...or it can wait till later since your probably working..


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

I'll PM you up: Competency here is lacking


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Ok fiiiiiiine. I'll take that...


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

Whoa, looks like I missed the party.



Stephan said:


> Competency here is lacking


Having a difference in opinion is all fine and dandy, healthy debate is healthy. But when you start needing to insult people to get your point across, that's when other people may start questioning YOUR competency.


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

BCdogs said:


> Whoa, looks like I missed the party.
> 
> Having a difference in opinion is all fine and dandy, healthy debate is healthy. But when you start needing to insult people to get your point across, that's when other people may start questioning YOUR competency.


Hmmmm. Well then possibly your "oldest member" shouldn't run his little mouth telling people to "STFU". :thumbsup:

Notice when the name calling came into play. But wait, thought y'all had tough skin?


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## ~StangChick~ (Jan 1, 2009)

OMG just stop


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

dude,
or if your even a dude, and not some 'fur mommy'

bro listen up, and listen real good,

30yrs ago, i had the same beliefs as you,
but then i woke up from that dream.

why would you even want a bull dog breed,

myself, i like knowing the fact that all of my dogs come from 
the top bloodlines in the bulldog breed.

now, when someone nowadays gets one they have a choice,

apbt's, staff's, blue's, and bully's, so you see they're are a lot of choices now.

and each one has the right to be here,

apbt's were[are] not to be conformation show dogs,

but i'm calling the kettle black, because i 'show' mine.

but thats not what they are bred for.

and as far as going back to sleep, i'm sure i get more done in the day before you even get up out of bed...................

maybe you should think about switchinbg breeds,

if i knew how to post pictures, i would show you my set-ups,
because i want to be safe, and not let my fellow dogmen down,

and have problems, or accidents.

do you really know anything about 'gamedogs'

america, is not the only place in the world that has apbt's,

in some civilized countries it is perfectly legal to contest your dogs,

and i aint talking 'ghetto' style.

in '80'

7 were sent to japan, and won 29 contests, 
that bloodline still runs thru my dogs veins.

back to the subject, i am not foolish enuf to think,
that i can control instinct...........

once you breed that out you have a staff.

you DO NOT have to train, or teach a true apbt,

its in there blood,

just like the scorpion and the frog,

ever heard that story???????????

be careful who you jump on, 
you might be surprized at the outcome


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

Chihuahuas for everyone!


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

DUDE I CANT EVEN SPELL THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i love all dogs, my house dog is an 8month bulldog,
and a 14yr old pomerainin,

i think its up to the indavidual,
i just think everyone should be responsible owner.

mainly you only see or hear about the bad.

mine are my family, and treated as such,

all of mine eat dinner before i do.


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## hashbrown (Mar 17, 2013)

surfer said:


> DUDE I CANT EVEN SPELL THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> i love all dogs, my house dog is an 8month bulldog,
> and a 14yr old pomerainin,
> ...


My womans had to tell me how to spell it.


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## Stephan (Oct 16, 2013)

surfer said:


> dude,
> or if your even a dude, and not some 'fur mommy'
> 
> bro listen up, and listen real good,
> ...


God does reading your jibber jabber hurt my eyes. You are so incredibly dense and your "old school" rhetoric is a joke. Stop speaking in riddles also guy...you're not the Joker. No matter what your friends tell you 

Spend 2 seconds "out of the woodwork" and come into society bud...you'd get torn up. Dime a dozen old timer, educate yourself.



surfer said:


> america, is not the only place in the world that has apbt's,
> 
> in some civilized countries it is perfectly legal to contest your dogs,
> 
> ...


What a classy piece of work you are...like I said, you'd be "taken care of" real quick in normal society. Stay in the wood.

I'm officially off this site....I'm feeling dumber for checking it


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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

BCdogs said:


> Whoa, looks like I missed the party.


Me too! It's just too awkward to add my 2 cents after the fact lol

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## BCdogs (May 30, 2014)

TeamCourter said:


> Me too! It's just too awkward to add my 2 cents after the fact lol


Pretty sure my comments are what started it, I just slept in while everything went to shit! lol.


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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

Deleted since he is "officially off this site"

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## TeamCourter (Oct 22, 2013)

BCdogs said:


> Pretty sure my comments are what started it, I just slept in while everything went to shit! lol.


I don't think I read that far back, but I will now (I'm bored) lol

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## surfer (Feb 20, 2013)

not trying to start controversy,[sp] check that for me hash,

i just love talking dogs, but 
sometimes you have to speak up,

and defend your blood, 
anyone that knows me will tell you,

after they have left my yard that they have never seen so many dogs taken as good 
care of as mine.

i aint talkin 5 or less, i'm talkin a yard full,
now i only have 12 dogs, but 
back in the day, we maintained around 125-150 dogs.

those days are gone now.

but just because i gave up on quanity, didnt mean i had to give up on quality.

and i dont want to jinx myself, but its been several years since i've had an
'accident'

i double up on all hardware, and use 1/4" to 5/16" chains, [transport]

because i dont ever want to put my dogs in a bad situation, EVER


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

The problem is a HUGE Majority of dogs that are here are not known to be pit bulls. And I have seen many dogs turn on that are not pit bulls. Not even just bully breeds, but terrier or retrievers. Sure it might not be the same rate of dogs turning on, but its not a breed specific issue, especially when the breed is unknown. Why not educate about dogs? I don't get why people continue to label groups of dogs just based of appearance and claim studies show XYZ. there is NO WAY studies of random dogs shows they behave any differently. And studies including pure bred dogs, the APBT tests higher than MANY other breeds in tons of areas. in any form, not just in regards t fighting. I see it saying my pup is the sweetest itty bitty pibble eve, all pit bulls are so sweet and loving. Its just not true. Absolute statements bite people in the ass daily. ALL stereotypes hurt the reputations of people who own targeted breeds. Its just the same to get the point across without explaining true APBT were bred for dog fighting since most people have dogs that may or more likely have NOT been well bred for their original purpose. Why continue to spew the same rhetoric people have been saying in order to get the public to ban the dogs who may happen to look like a pit bull aka bull breed (which is just another way to lump dogs into a pit bull category)?


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## smkymntn (Mar 5, 2014)

Stephan said:


> Jesus. It never ends.
> 
> A better phrase would be, "Never trust a DOG not to fight..." since it seems you are glorifying the aggressive "pit bull" bit once again.
> 
> ...


im not glorifying "aggressive pitbulls" im going off information that have been around this breed and understand them and not in some lala land about them, i will continue to be safe and not sorry when it comes to this breed. because when you get an attitude like yours that is when attacks happen. they were bred to be fighting dogs, so dog aggression. which is TOTALLY DIFFERNT than human aggression is possible. yes all dogs can be dog aggresive. but like i said bully type breeds are more prone to dog aggression. and since they already have a bad name why add to it because of ignorance. if they were to get attacked first by dog, it would end up being the pitbulls fault. its called common sense. my dog is nice as can be to people and dogs, but i will never let my guard down when other dogs are around her and i would NEVER leave her alone around other dogs, i dont care if they have been together all their life. I wold rather be safe than sorry


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## Kai (Jun 10, 2012)

:sits back and eats popcorn::roll:


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