# Cesar Millan, Abuse is Not A Training Tool



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I don't know how this video at the end of the post passes as "training" in any circles, nor why National Geographic would let these examples of abuse stand as acceptable dog training practice, compounding the wrong by allowing them to be aired for public consumption. Money changes everything?

The video shows Millan, over and over again with different dogs, kicking them. Millan says he doesn't "kick" the dog but uses his foot to distract/correct-the sounds or extreme movement coming from most of the dogs leads me to believe otherwise. When he is facing the back end of the dog I see that kick going to the groin. Thanks to Steve Dale at his Chicago Now blog for bringing this up and for the video.

This is not science, it is absolutely not an acceptable training practice, in fact it has nothing to do with training and everything to do with abusive practices. Like the kick to the snout of dog where an editing job had to be done&#8230;but you can see the after effects as the dogs head lifts sharply upwards and he backs away.

Where are the watchdog groups to prevent cruelty to animals? Why have they not stepped up to put a stop to it - at least make their voices, and ours, heard loud and clear at National Geographic - even if it is not technically a film. Did I miss the announcement of a lawsuit? Is there a current petition somewhere? Many vets and all positive reinforcement trainers take a negative position on these wrong-headed methods for correcting dogs. Why is this kind of abuse of animals on television at all, and being supported by National Geographic?

I would never allow anyone to do this to my dog in the name of "teaching" him anything. Would you?

YouTube - 13. Cesar Millan kicking dogs (Abuse)


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

I agree 100%, it makes me sad knowing how many people look up to him as the best of all trainers.

And never would I allow my dogs to be trained like that. There was an episode with a Great Dane who was fearful of shinny surfaces. How did he "fix" it? He forced the dog onto the linoleum, the poor thing wouldn't budge at first and couldn't get traction so its legs were sliding out.

Teaching learned helplessness is not fixing a dog.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I still can't believe I tried his stuff out on Momo.....I think that might be why she was so screwed up.

I do like his positive comments on pitbulls....But I think he needs to learn a little bit more about them,before he decides he can make them not DA. and live in PACKS!


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## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

In cgc class my trainer allows to lift and rotate our dogs bodies if the dogs begin a stare off/square off. Its not a kick or shove, just put the top of your food under th abdomen and lift enough to get the back feet off the ground and rotate the head/body away from a stinkeye. Is that acceptable, no striking kicking jabbing. Onyx has no whines or acts any different afterwards. After a few he understands the command and responds and refocuses


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Same, back when I was less educated I liked him. But then I began to learn dog body language and proper training and realize just how stressed out a lot of the dogs were.

And having all those dogs in one place...O_O


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I have seen his methods used at Petsmart. I have seen a trainer literally toss a dog onto it's back,and hog tie it's legs to "calm it"

Yeah..all that will do is get you bit.


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## Celestial88 (Mar 14, 2011)

I find removing away from whatever the dog is reacting to, and rewarding for attention. Much better on the dog than teaching it to "Calm down" by throwing it on its back. 
I think that teaches Learned Helplessness, more so than relaxation or being calm.
Learned helplessness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## socalapbt (Mar 13, 2011)

to me all ceaser really does is dominate the dogs, he takes on the alpha position of the pack and puts the dog in check. he used fancy words and such to try and make it look fancier than what he is really doing. alot of those ppl on that show let their dogs walk all over them, spoil the crap out of their dogs, and are even scared of their dogs. How can you be so stupid to let your dog growl at you with food etc.? A challenge deserves a response, and these people are scared their dog is ganna bite them so they walk away or whatever. you should be able to take your dogs food away no problem, you should be able to take anything away.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I personally feel there is right and wrong points on both sides of this , I like "some " of ceasers methods but Iwouldnt use them all , the writting this person did at the end of the video Idont agree with certain points, like when they said your dog isnt trying to be dominant and wont try and walk all over you I feel there are very dominent dogs and if you dont become alpha to them they will take that role. I do like the touchmethod to get the dog to refocus on you if they arent responding to vocal commands but that doesnt mean kicking in any way { I seen the kicks on this video from cesear and dont agree with that} I personally have great effect with my dogs by poking with 2 fingers to get there attention nothing that would ever hurt them or make them shy away. I think there are alot of trainers out there who have good methods and bad ones as well, If you can pick the good form each or use the methods that work for you thats best. I do feelalot of people just like to hate on those who are succeeding in industry they themsleves might not be or in one where they themselves dont understand { we see alot of issues just on the forum here 1 thing can be seen by 3 people and have 3 different views on it such as chains, dog fighting, training, nutrition, exercise ect } Not saying anyone is 'hating' on him just to hate but I do try and look at things fromboth views.
Good post though it was an interesting video and opened my eyes to some things with cesear  again all of this is JMO


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

UGH I used to like and watch him, but that was when I didn't know any better. Its come to light how many dogs have died under his care and that just pisses me off. Especially since he is toted as an expert. Just no good. Showing dominance by tackling a dog should not be used as a rule, you need to try all things first and go from there. Very hard to train every single dog the same way, I would imagine. Sucks when people just see stuff on TV and think he must know what he is doing since he has a show and a bunch of dogs together and getting along.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I think its a false view on how to train a dog , people think oh he did that in 1 day, majority of time it takes weeks upon months of work to get the dog to where you see it at the end of the show. alot of his techniques look easier when its edited and if people apply some of his stuff and have a bad reaction from there dog that wasnt shown on the show they have no clue on how to correct it or even that they need to correct it, and end up in more trouble then when they started.


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

angelbaby said:


> I personally feel there is right and wrong points on both sides of this , I like "some " of ceasers methods but Iwouldnt use them all , the writting this person did at the end of the video Idont agree with certain points, like when they said your dog isnt trying to be dominant and wont try and walk all over you I feel there are very dominent dogs and if you dont become alpha to them they will take that role. I do like the touchmethod to get the dog to refocus on you if they arent responding to vocal commands but that doesnt mean kicking in any way { I seen the kicks on this video from cesear and dont agree with that} I personally have great effect with my dogs by poking with 2 fingers to get there attention nothing that would ever hurt them or make them shy away. I think there are alot of trainers out there who have good methods and bad ones as well, If you can pick the good form each or use the methods that work for you thats best. I do feelalot of people just like to hate on those who are succeeding in industry they themsleves might not be or in one where they themselves dont understand { we see alot of issues just on the forum here 1 thing can be seen by 3 people and have 3 different views on it such as chains, dog fighting, training, nutrition, exercise ect } Not saying anyone is 'hating' on him just to hate but I do try and look at things fromboth views.
> Good post though it was an interesting video and opened my eyes to some things with cesear  again all of this is JMO


:goodpost: Agreed!:roll:


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

He has good and bad aspects, but it should be kept in mind that he is not a "trainer" and considers himself to be the last stand. He is a bit extreme in some cases, but when you have exhausted all other alternatives then he is the one to call. That's just my opinion. No one is perfect. He called Daddy a pit bull when he was obviously an American Bully, but he has definitely opened a lot of minds and hearts to the bully breeds in need. 
Just my humble opinion of course.


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## Silence (Dec 30, 2010)

The video is no longer available.
But I did see a video yesterday on youtube where he was working with a very dangerous pit bull and I do have to say if that dog had not been wearing that muzzle the dog would have eaten Cesar


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## 00 S/C Lightning (Apr 7, 2010)

Wow the way buddy lunged at the end, that didnt look too promising for CM limbs. Does anyone know the outcome? Hope there was a positive result


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Ugh that was in Seattle XD


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Buddy is a dog that should have been put to sleep. That is what MoMo was.

I can see the difference between that and Kush. for example. Kush will lunge and head butt,but not get to close. 
He does not go for the face or neck,usually the hand. At least that was what he USE to do,before he saw the behaviorist.
Now he can walk by people outside without any issues. However no pet stores,to much stress.
That is setting him up for failure.


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## OKpuller (Oct 24, 2009)

*good and bad*

I think Ceaser does good work with the overly aggressive dogs but he uses the same stuff on the less aggressive dogs and I think that it is too much. I do believe that whatever the dog does that the owner must match the actions with a correction. But I dont think that a dog should every be hit by the owner or anyone else. I would kick him back if he ever kicked one of my dogs.


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## Diggit (Jan 24, 2011)

*sigh* 

I have said it once and ill say it again about this topic "kicking dogs"

I have downloaded and season 1,2 and im half way through season 3. 

he "taps" the dog with his heal... the dog is not exspecting it, the dog JUMPS, so it makes it look like its worse the it is.
try it for yoursefl, have yur dog seated opn your left and take your right foot and wrap around behind you and see how much force you can accually get without falling down.

how do you ride a horse? you have to "kick" him to go, pull the reins to make him stop.

I have used the "tapping" to my "red zone" dog aggressive dog and hey it works! 
I love cesars work, he has saved soo many dogs.. and owners! 

what would you do if you had a dog try and EAT you? 

and cesar never tries to "hog tie" a dog on his back.... he gets it on hi side til he submitts, people dont grasp when he has submit and when they have not, obviously letting the dog up without asking him, or before he submitts wont work.

thats why it says before the show never attempt what is shown on this series without a professional....


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Diggit said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I have said it once and ill say it again about this topic "kicking dogs"
> 
> ...


:goodpost: Seriously... & I don't consider pets mart dog trainers 'professional' per se'.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I detest petsmart trainers for that reason.

I have never seen cesar do this either..I think that was this chicks own twist to his method.
She's also the one who gave a pitbull owner grief for her dog barking at another dog(when the other dog barked first,and she had NO control of it)
It was the pit owners fault you know...They are what make pitbulls get bad rap,and get into the media*eye roll*


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## Phoenix (May 3, 2008)

Diggit said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I have said it once and ill say it again about this topic "kicking dogs"
> 
> ...


:goodpost:......The misunderstanding/adding on/misinterpretation of a foot tap being a kick,escalating to abuse allegations along with the adding- on of false, half understood "info"........
.......is the SAME KIND of nonsense thinking and extrapolations that has led to our breed being vilified the way it is!
Whether you agree with Cesar or not, do not debase him by using the tactics of the anti-APBT folks within our circle....for ANY REASON. We already know what damage it does....RIGHT?
Base your sayings on well researched facts,like we WISH others would do with our breed.For if they did, we would be able to own our dogs without worry;others WOULD KNOW there is nothing to worry about."


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## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Xiahko said:


> I detest petsmart trainers for that reason.
> 
> I have never seen cesar do this either..I think that was this chicks own twist to his method.
> She's also the one who gave a pitbull owner grief for her dog barking at another dog(when the other dog barked first,and she had NO control of it)
> It was the pit owners fault you know...They are what make pitbulls get bad rap,and get into the media*eye roll*


Exactly! They let their ego rule their training methods & because they watched a, quote unquote, cesar millan method - that means they know how to project it properly?

People with that kind of mindset are part of the issue. But people will always be less intelligent than others. It's sad other ppl have to make an effort to educate truth.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

00 S/C Lightning said:


> Wow the way buddy lunged at the end, that didnt look too promising for CM limbs. Does anyone know the outcome? Hope there was a positive result


If you click the title of the video, it'll open a new window and take you directly to You Tube, there you can watch parts 2 & 3.


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

Yeah...I would have had that dog put down. Lots of less dangerous animals could use the home...


Dogs were bred from wolves, how do higher ranking dogs punish their subordinates? Body language, warnings, and yes, corporal punishment if the message is not clearly met. My experience with pit bulls is that they are emotionally sensitive and physically insensitive, so back in Trance's puppy days, a swat on the butt hurt his feelings more than his butt, and he got the point. He is a perfectly behaved gentleman now. The same applies to horses in regards to corrections, how much "oomph" do you use? Enough. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Nikki!! Glad to see you 'round these parts again! 

Ehem. I just wanted to concur with Nikki on this topic. There's a fine line between discipline and abuse. Same can be said when it comes to children. You correct, and discipline when necessary. This about the only time it's safe to play on someone's emotions. In this case, someone would be the dog. You start correction from a very early age, as we all know, to keep the pup's life structured and consistent. A well raised pup will prove to be a well behaved dog. A little piece of paper is all I need with my newest little addition (don't get excited, he's just an ankle-biter). I don't hurt him, but I embarrass him, which hurts his feelings and tells him "I don't like that feeling, and I don't like it when I upset mom." 

But, with the fear aggression, and the territorial issues, I can't say I would've wasted my time with him, but I would have given him a set time frame to improve with training. If that goal wasn't met to my standards, then the dog would've crossed the bridge.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL Cesar Millan is not abusing these dog's a little tap has never hurt any animal. Striking a dog out of anger is one thing. Using a little bit of force to get the animal's attention and gain control is quite another. I don't think Millan understands our breed fully but he is a good trainer for most breeds and he has a lot of good methods that I respect. Diggit is right on the money. Abuse is using objects and hitting an animal or just hitting the dog anywhere on it's body. Using your heel to tap the dog with slight force is not abuse.


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## aussie monster pitt (Mar 3, 2011)

socalapbt said:


> to me all ceaser really does is dominate the dogs, he takes on the alpha position of the pack and puts the dog in check. he used fancy words and such to try and make it look fancier than what he is really doing. alot of those ppl on that show let their dogs walk all over them, spoil the crap out of their dogs, and are even scared of their dogs. How can you be so stupid to let your dog growl at you with food etc.? A challenge deserves a response, and these people are scared their dog is ganna bite them so they walk away or whatever. you should be able to take your dogs food away no problem, you should be able to take anything away.


why all the hate i think he does a great job an really knows what his doing

and socal he doesnt put it in any fancy words he says straight up that he is asserting himself as pack leader man if thats fancy wording then im the president.


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## aussie monster pitt (Mar 3, 2011)

if he was abusing them im sure he woulda been reported years ago


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## snsg2h (Mar 26, 2011)

Its all about the force being used. If someone used their hand to tap the dog's side to get the dog's attention - no one would call it a "kick" or abusive. Just because someone uses their foot to apply the same pressure you could also do with your hand doesn't make it abuse. 
I give my dogs a little poke with two fingers and it works great! But what if I was walking a dog in each hand and therefore didn't have a free hand to give the dog the poke? I have not done it, but I can see where using a foot to apply the same pressure could yield the same result. Again, it is all in the force...


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Diggit... :goodpost: 


Dogwhisper knows his .. 

I was in Oklahoma in around 03 and the Mrs told me I should watch the Dog Whisperer cause he does what I do; and he uses the same methods but he doesnt call it Wolf Sense.. I said Dog whisperer whats that? a movie? .. she laughed and showed me he comes on natgeo and I watched it thinking it was another quack.. I was like .. this dude is straight coping my style.. WTF?? Then I quickly liked him and what he was doing for so many people.. if PEOPLE WOULD ONLY FKN LISTEN>... ITS THE PERSON.. NOT THE DOG!!!! I TRAIN people ... I rehabilitate dogs  Its all in the punch line and of course people who dont want to claim fault are gonna talk  thats what we do when we don't want to swallow our rocks and get the fk over it. ... LISTEN and WATCH and TAKE mental notes.. these accidents will happen if not already to you.. HE's shown the public HOW to mentally control your dog and how to seperate TWO Pit Bulls FIGHTING without a stick or brutality but with what I call Wolf Sense.. They are dogs we are the Person we must adhere to a higher action as we are the higher being thus we speak to the animals and arent so dumb or naive to expect them to adhere to people speak or to city ordinances.. 

A dog is a reflection of its owner  or in many cases the lack there of..


In many cases the term Dog man/woman sums it up... IMO any one with that title is a dogwhisperer themselves.. just saying


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

^^^ :clap:
Good post Stan


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## ashes (Jul 7, 2010)

I hate when ppl say he "abuses" the dogs and talk so much crap about him. Since the show I have heard a lot of ppl change their minds about Pit bulls. They will quote him and it's very funny to hear. I think he's doing more good then bad for the breed and I do think he knows his stuff. He advocates for these dogs and that's what we need for this breed.


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