# i'd like to know peoples feelings about this



## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

i know this is a rather touchy subject but i think its worthy of being discussed(im on a lack of sleep, couldnt sleep last night so bear with me) im also watching a jack kevorkian documentary and every time i see it i respect the man more and more. anyways on to the point

would you agree with this first statement?

as animal lovers im sure many of us if not all would take our beloved to get pts if it was chronically ill with something like cancer, or was in alot of pain, just so the animal could go out with dignity and not suffer anymore no matter how much it hurt us.

now with the first statement in mind lets move on to the second statement

if we had a family member who was suffering the same as our beloved animals terminal cancer, chronic pain, ect. would we support them if they thought that being pts was an option for them? or would fight them from doing this with every muscle in our body because its wrong for some one to take their own life, or that humans should have natural deaths?

im not sure how you all stand on this but im sure you can see the double standard that people apply to the subject.

so whats every ones stand point on a medically assisted demise?


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Since I just had to recently put down two of my animals, one of who was in pain and suffering, yes I would totally let a family member do this if that is what they choose to do. I would also hope that when my time came that they would be supportive of me and let me make that decision as well . Great post Stoner. Get some sleep bro


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

I really don't think it's fair that we can do this for animals but we'll let people suffer in horrible pain. I think if your going to go anyway why no be able to go humanely. People should have a choice to do so.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Right on Krystal


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

lol im thinkin i might do that with in the next hour stupid hypersomnia XD i guess another aspect is people who are completely paralyzed, i cant really comprehend why would any one would continue to let a loved one live like that theres nothing left for them to do its kinda selfish. i'd be bored as heck if i was a veg, i couldnt live like that i'd never have pick of the channel i'd probably be stuck watching soap operas and toddlers in tiaras the rest of my life if i was a veg >_<.

yay like minded people  tye and krystal you guys are awesome


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

^^^^ I completely agree, wouldn't wanna be a veggie either, please just kill me and get it over with. It bothers me that people would let others suffer, but they do it to their pets everyday.


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Ryan and I talked about that the other day. We agreed we wouldn't ever let each other rot in a hospital bed. If either of us gets hurt and ends up brain dead plugs will be pulled. How horrible would it be to be trapped in your body unable to move on.


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

Krystal you are just too cool, it's very seldom I find people that think the way I do about things like this. Excellent post Stoner for real


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

here i was thinkin every one was gonna be like "your sick in the head". my uncle had a stroke like 3 or 4 months ago and ended up in the hospital and the hospital may have over looked somethings and he ended up with a clot in his brain or something and he lost brain function well something else happened while under the care of the hospital and he went completely brain dead, so my cousin had to make a decision, a week went by and he hadnt decided before he had to choose my uncle passed. i under stand its hard to loose a family member especially your father but why let him suffer and make yourself suffer knowing that your just prolonging the inevitable and making it potentially worse. the thing is they make the way they help your veg relative pass so horrible that you cant really help but not want them to go that way. the hospital wanted to make sure he was constantly hoped up on morphine then starve him. i dont think thats very appropriate for any human, animal, or creature to go.


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## Eagle (Jun 6, 2011)

Normally I would ignore a post like this, but I've been in this situation,,,on the other side.
Doctors first pronounced me dead, then "not gonna make it" (parents had 'last rites' read by priest), 
to "he's gonna be a veggie", and 'he's not gonna walk again...', not gonna come out of coma.
My sister even told me a doctor said "it's up to him if he makes it."

Well,,,they had to brace me while in coma, but uncle said I'd still sit up,,,
I was out of coma in a week. I was soon speaking, and in a month walking.
Next month I was in physical rehab. Next month I was out.
I overcame all that was said by most of the doctors.
The plug could have been pulled on me during the first week, but it wasn't.

But in cases of terminal illness, I'd hate to ever have to make the choice.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I totally agree with allowing people to make the choice if they want to live or die. I do not want to suffer I wont suffer I will end my life when I feel the time is right. Most people have troubles with that type of thinking some are afraid to say it for fear of how others will think of them.


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## bluefamily (Aug 8, 2007)

yes touchy subject indeed...that is what living wills are for...I work around chronically ill, bed ridden vegetable people all the time. Sometimes the patient languishing can teach those who are left behind valuable lessons...sometimes the gift is found in the journey and not in the destination


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I watched family die of cancer and it is very painful, I think it is cruel to let them suffer if they choose to end it.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

wow Eagle, that's a crazy story and so lucky! I am glad they didn;t give up on you.

I think people, who have a voice and their own choice, should be able to make the decision. Pulling the plug is a while other ball game than cancer or MS or some other horrible affliction that people still have a conscious brain and can communicate and not be able to end their misery. Jack also made sure they were in the right mind set, and was never done on anyone he searched out, it was always the people finding him.

and Krystal, make sure you guys have a will that says Ryan has the say over you and vice versa. not sure of you are married, but even if you are married, someone in one of your families may try and fight their decision and it could get nasty.

Think about that poor women who wanted her husband to not allow her on feeding tubes and for years her parents fought in court while the women lived for years and thousands of dollars in bills just to get the courts to agree she could be removed from feeding tubes. could get so nasty so get a will!


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

Eagle said:


> Normally I would ignore a post like this, but I've been in this situation,,,on the other side.
> Doctors first pronounced me dead, then "not gonna make it" (parents had 'last rites' read by priest),
> to "he's gonna be a veggie", and 'he's not gonna walk again...', not gonna come out of coma.
> My sister even told me a doctor said "it's up to him if he makes it."
> ...


a similar thing happened with my cousin. he got ran over on a motor cycle when he fell off a motorcycle, he died 3 times once on the scene, once more in the helecopter on the way to hospital, then once at the hospital. he was in a coma for 6 months. they said he'd never walk again everything similar to you. but i dont feel that coma and being a vegetable are exactly the same thing if your in a coma you can still have semi responsive movement. people can come out of comas but i've never heard of people walking after being vegetables.

@ames exactly he did care he looked at records and interviewed his patients, he was just kinda crazy when it came to trying his luck with the judicial system


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## Eagle (Jun 6, 2011)

They didn't know how I'd be...I was suppossedly parylized on my right side.
But no, coma and veggie aren't the same thing...
They knew I wasn't a veggie when the first words out of my mouth were profanity, LOL


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## apbtmom76 (Nov 4, 2008)

lol Eagle is a fighter, glad you are here for sure  Glad noone even yourself didn';t give up on you. Hugs.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

Eagle said:


> They didn't know how I'd be...I was suppossedly parylized on my right side.
> But no, coma and veggie aren't the same thing...
> They knew I wasn't a veggie when the first words out of my mouth were profanity, LOL


lol glad your strong and pulled through. they also said my cousin would never walk again, then he started trying to walk but still was having trouble, then he turned himself in for the situation where he got pulled over and while he was in jail he got himself in shape and got back to walking full force.


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## Eagle (Jun 6, 2011)

apbtmom76 said:


> lol Eagle is a fighter, glad you are here for sure  Glad noone even yourself didn';t give up on you. Hugs.


Easy for you to say...if I'd known how things had been when I "came-back", I'd of stayed on the other side. LOL.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Ive watched my grandpa recently pass from cancer those few weeks at the end they gave him all sorts of drugs to "help ease the pain" yet none worked , too see someone in that state and know what the outcome is going to be there is no miracle or maybe in some of these cases , its sad more cant be done to allow them to go as they please. We were lucky in a sense to have those last few weeks for goodbyes and he went pretty fast there are some who spend months and years in the pain he was in knowing the outcome is the same I dont know what I would do if a family member needed that help to end it I can only hope if I was in that situation and no hope was anywhere and that amount of pain I would have someone with me to make that decision if need be. I see both sides of this debate though on what people Morally and ethically find wrong with this , there are so many who arent mentally stable or depressed { something alot of people with terminal illness deal with } and may not be in the right mind to make this decision.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

i think it should be some what open to depressed people, but kinda under the same pretences as a sex change in the u.s. i saw this on a show called taboo on nat geo, they said that in the united states in order to be eligable for sex change surgery you must under go like 8 years of psychological therapy, i think just about any problem can be solved just by talking things out and over an 8 year period of time i think it could more than change their attitude towards life


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> i know this is a rather touchy subject but i think its worthy of being discussed(im on a lack of sleep, couldnt sleep last night so bear with me) im also watching a jack kevorkian documentary and every time i see it i respect the man more and more. anyways on to the point
> 
> would you agree with this first statement?
> 
> ...


I say this all the time to people when I hear of peoples loved ones dying of cancer. I personally would want someone to put me to sleep if I was suffering. If I knew I was terminal and was conscious enough to make my own decisions I would want my suffering to come to an end. I have always admired Jack Kevorkian and supported what he did. I don't think that man should have spent anytime in jail. I watched three of my grandparents die and was by all there sides when they took there last breathe. They all died of different cancers but all three smoked and had lung cancer. One had lung and brain cancer, one had bladder and lung cancer, and the other had lung and prostrate cancer. All suffered to there final breathe. My last living grandfather who died 4 years ago. When he found out he had terminal cancer he would often wish Jack Kevorkian was still around and able to put him to rest. Just as I hate to see my beloved animals suffer I can't bare to see anymore family members do the same.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> i think it should be some what open to depressed people, but kinda under the same pretences as a *sex change *in the u.s. i saw this on a show called taboo on nat geo, they said that in the united states in order to be eligable for sex change surgery you must under go like 8 years of psychological therapy, i think just about any problem can be solved just by talking things out and over an 8 year period of time i think it could more than change their attitude towards life


Please don't even get me started on that topic.....That would have to go to VIP :roll:


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Although my religious background would probably say otherwise, I say that everyone should choose how they want to pass away, especially in the extreme cases. However, I don't think it should be used and abused as a "way out" for people when life gets a little sticky, which I think could happen. Like most touchy subjects, there are gray areas and once the door opens for allowance...it becomes hard to close. BTW, Greg, you're my hero you S.O.B. LOL!!!! Glad you are still among the living


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Here is where medically assisted suicide becomes dangerous. Let say someone is diagnosed with a grave illness but there is some hope they could survive it. Now lets say euthanasia is cheaper than saving the patient. Which premium do you think the insurance company is going to pay for? Insurance companies are already denying life saving treatments to people. I bet they would be happy to just cut to the chase.


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## Eagle (Jun 6, 2011)

Saint Francis said:


> Although my religious background would probably say otherwise, I say that everyone should choose how they want to pass away, especially in the extreme cases. However, I don't think it should be used and abused as a "way out" for people when life gets a little sticky, which I think could happen. Like most touchy subjects, there are gray areas and once the door opens for allowance...it becomes hard to close. BTW, Greg, you're my hero you S.O.B. LOL!!!! Glad you are still among the living


"It is a brave act of valor to condemn death, but where life is more terrible than death it is then the truest valor to dare to live." - Sir Thomas Brown

LOL SF,,,:roll:


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

Blue_Nose_Bella said:


> Please don't even get me started on that topic.....That would have to go to VIP :roll:


lol im not its just a supporting fact


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

Shes Got Heart said:


> Here is where medically assisted suicide becomes dangerous. Let say someone is diagnosed with a grave illness but there is some hope they could survive it. Now lets say euthanasia is cheaper than saving the patient. Which premium do you think the insurance company is going to pay for? Insurance companies are already denying life saving treatments to people. I bet they would be happy to just cut to the chase.


i dont think this should have anything to do with insurance, i agree that if it was insurances would be denying every one left and right. on an off topic note i wish i was canadian or from england because of their health care systems...


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Everything in health has to do with insurance though, sadly. This is a country where Viagra is approved by many insurance companies but birth control is not approved by many! It is a greedy money making corporation. My dad is an RN, has worked in hospitals many years. Before he worked in assembly lines and industrial work. Anyway, he was saying how the hospital director was talking about a new "business model" for the hospital on how it should run. My dad said that is how it is, a business, corporation and all they care about is making money. He said it's like watching patients go through an assembly line. My dad is a caring type of Nurse, he cares about the patients and although the hospital wants him to bombard them asking for payment arrangements he refuses to do that.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Eagle said:


> "It is a brave act of valor to condemn death, but where life is more terrible than death it is then the truest valor to dare to live." - Sir Thomas Brown
> 
> LOL SF,,,:roll:


Yeah,....what he said


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Shes Got Heart said:


> Everything in health has to do with insurance though, sadly. This is a country where Viagra is approved by many insurance companies but birth control is not approved by many! It is a greedy money making corporation. My dad is an RN, has worked in hospitals many years. Before he worked in assembly lines and industrial work. Anyway, he was saying how the hospital director was talking about a new "business model" for the hospital on how it should run. My dad said that is how it is, a business, corporation and all they care about is making money. He said it's like watching patients go through an assembly line. My dad is a caring type of Nurse, he cares about the patients and although the hospital wants him to bombard them asking for payment arrangements he refuses to do that.


Reminds me of the movie "The Rainmaker". Good flick about the power and corruptness of insurance co.


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Saint Francis said:


> Reminds me of the movie "The Rainmaker". Good flick about the power and corruptness of insurance co.


I think I saw that when I was much younger. I need to watch that one again. Isn't it about the two lawyers, Danny Davito and Matt Damon right?


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Shes Got Heart said:


> I think I saw that when I was much younger. I need to watch that one again. Isn't it about the two lawyers, Danny Davito and Matt Damon right?


You got it!! Matt Damon, little DD, Jon Voight, Claire Daines(sp). I think Jon Voight may be able to play the biggest prick in all movieland LOL!!!


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

if you get a chance watch micheal moores sicko, its a great documentary about the subject of insurance i blame nixon. anything with danny davito i gotta pass on XD


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> if you get a chance watch micheal moores sicko, its a great documentary about the subject of insurance i blame nixon. anything with danny davito i gotta pass on XD


I take it you didn't care much for "Taxi", one of the greatest sitcoms of all time? DD is alright if cast in the correct role.


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## stonerreakinhavok (May 22, 2011)

Saint Francis said:


> I take it you didn't care much for "Taxi", one of the greatest sitcoms of all time? DD is alright if cast in the correct role.


the movie with the governator and dd kinda killed dd for me...


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## bluefamily (Aug 8, 2007)

stonerreakinhavok said:


> if you get a chance watch micheal moores sicko, its a great documentary about the subject of insurance i blame nixon. anything with danny davito i gotta pass on XD


I can only make it through about 5 minutes of that movie...I have tried


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