# R.I.P EL *****



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

Ch El ***** ROM Black Lady 1X Pups


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

that dog was bred tighter than dicks hatband.
had I 2 grand settin around ...


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

IMO that was garners best.. but thats JMO


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude...was he old? Breeding a dog that old...Not cool. JMO.
He was a sweet looking dog though.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

when you gotta dog like ***** and you know he's gonna go... you stud him one more time  hes going regardless so better get it while the gettins good.. ya know???


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> when you gotta dog like ***** and you know he's gonna go... you stud him one more time  hes going regardless so better get it while the gettins good.. ya know???


Good point...At least he got some before he went. LOL!


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

some el ***** offspiring off his offspring...just to show how well
he reproduced himself in his pups pups...get it?


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I really like Bobby Peru, Tom Garner has way too many liters though almost puppy mill like.


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

not to sound raw,...but tg is a technician, he's the mad scientist when it
comes to breeding...thats what he does...he's not a dog fighter, hes a breeder.
his stock is 2nd to none...all tested all legit. he breeds dog for the betterment 
process.to call him a puppy miller is a big disrespect as far as I'm concerned. a miller
sells junk without quality control. you should drop to your knees and thank him for
letting the public acquire such amazing dogs. but hey, thats just one mans opinion.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Padlock said:


> not to sound raw,...but tg is a technician, he's the mad scientist when it
> comes to breeding...thats what he does...he's not a dog fighter, hes a breeder.
> his stock is 2nd to none...all tested all legit. he breeds dog for the betterment
> process.to call him a puppy miller is a big disrespect as far as I'm concerned. a miller
> ...


I see your point on the fact that he is breeding good dogs, but to me having 13 liters is a bit excessive. I have seen videos of his yard and he has the best yard I have ever seen, it is clean/mantained and I know he spent must have spent a ton of money to build those kennels.

I guess if he is willing to keep all of those dogs he is producing if they do not find buyers I respect it. 13 liters is a lot to take care of provide enough attention. I wonder what goes into the screening process of prospective buyers?


----------



## Padlock (Nov 19, 2010)

thats a valid concern, but he sells dog all over the world.
when i was there he was shipping 6 pups to PR. all to one kennel.
alot of his clients are repeat buyers...word of mouth, and interent
marketing is the here and now. it is what it is. he has 24/7 help
living in second house on his property. those dogs are well cared for.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Padlock said:


> thats a valid concern, but he sells dog all over the world.
> when i was there he was shipping 6 pups to PR. all to one kennel.
> alot of his clients are repeat buyers...word of mouth, and interent
> marketing is the here and now. it is what it is. he has 24/7 help
> living in second house on his property. those dogs are well cared for.


You and I see eye to eye, I like you lol another gamedogger would have went ballastic on me lol

I really like Bobby Peru he is such a beautiful dog. I really like his build, one day when I don't have cats or a chiwawa I want to get a bulldog.


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I don;t care for that video. (testing game or whatever they call it) Not allowed on this site.
DELETE THAT NOW! kthnxbye.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

(chuckles)


----------



## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> (chuckles)


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Ok, so am I wrong? Is this video ok to post in here? I'm confused now.


----------



## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

It will be removed...in due time...


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Well I figured,but the way people were responding, I thought I was making a mistake in asking it to be removed.
I know what they were bred for. No need to prove it on a family friendly site ya know.
anyway back on topic.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Mayday, mayday... <------- =D (chuckles) JK 

I know ya'll have gotten a pup with scabs all over its head.. Every game dog litter I have looked at had that stuff going on just standing there lookin at the pups; no human hands involved. ..

I see the point this could be offensive, I also see how being offended is offensive. This is a good product to show people how to pick their pup for catch work, drive, intelligence, and so on. I didn't find it offensive because there nothing questionable in the clip. A good learner..


----------



## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

i just found out today about el ***** passing, its a shame. im glad i was down in NC a couple months ago picking out an el ***** puppy before they became 2000 bucks. i got a female out of one of his last litters.


----------



## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Rip El *****-

FH dead on the money


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

It's not appropriate for this site.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

:goodpost: for taking a stand. ^^^



Xiahko said:


> Well I figured,but the way people were responding, I thought I was making a mistake in asking it to be removed.
> I know what they were bred for. No need to prove it on a family friendly site ya know.
> anyway back on topic.


:rofl: fence riding type decisions, but you took a stand and for that :clap: good show. sorry cant stand waffled decisions, I knew how you felt and all and so did you, so don't waffle, because like others on this blog I won't. really Im all jollies that you just made a solid decision because that's clear communication thus dialogue. 

It's still educational to all those who don't know how catch dog pups work, and there has been pups on hogs posted on this site, dogs on bulls, boars, and dogo's on mt lion, thats much more archaic. I have to (chuckle) because there are many people who have APBTs and don't know what adba style dogs are bred like, catch work ... catch work.. and game or whats refered to as [] intelligence. How many ppl have APBTs and don't know why there reputable breeder sent them a pup full of scabs?.. These pups enjoyed it, all but the little black pup that turn cold an ran the flip off. (chuckles) "fk all yall,, Im out"<< what that lil cur was sayin.. hahaha .. it's all good.. 
Good Show... Good Post..

Maybe it should be in VIP only.. (if its not) I personally have my kids watching now, and they laughed at the lil pup that ran off (like: "Im out") LOL, cause they know these country side pups are workers from day one... at 4wks they are doin this in the puppy kennel.. and they(the kids) put dialogue to their (the pups) interactions and responces with each other..


----------



## Lex's Guardian (Aug 8, 2009)

Chuckle... What a silly word in the English diction

RIP


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Paddy did Garner freeze semen off el *****?


R.I.P EL *****  What a great bulldog


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> :goodpost: for taking a stand. ^^^
> 
> :rofl: fence riding type decisions, but you took a stand and for that :clap: good show. sorry cant stand waffled decisions, I knew how you felt and all and so did you, so don't waffle, because like others on this blog I won't. really Im all jollies that you just made a solid decision because that's clear communication thus dialogue.
> 
> ...


Well,not all people's children like such thing. Or think it's funny. You know how hard it is to explain to a 5 year old,why the people are having the doggies "kill each other"?(as quoted by child)
It's not something I want to have to go through again. Wasn't even my kid :/
But I do understand how some people would find this educational to a point. The people in the video did stop the pups,when it got to much for the other one. So it wasn't like a "fight to the death" haha.But it's still not something that should be on a site that children could view.
Or perhaps wanna be's who decide to try it themselves,when they have NO idea how to do it safely,without injuring their pups.(But then again,that video could show them the right way to do it,with little injury)
If I'm making any sense....If not,just ignore me~


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I didn't see the video because it was taken down before I could see it but I am sure if it was taken down it was not appropriate content for this particular site. I think we just have to remember this is not a game dog site so not everyone is going to be able to take it all in or want to look at it. I know bulldogs are not for the faint hearted but not everyone here embraces or owns a game dog so I wouldn't expect that these types of things be openly discussed or talked about. That is why I take this type of stuff to game dog sites where it is embraced and openly discussed. This is a family board so I respect that.


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm almost interested in seeing one of these game dog sites....But I dunno...
I'm still having a hard time telling "game" from "cruelty" I think I'm starting to get a little bit more knowledge,but I'm not quite there yet.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

my 11, 7, and 5, watched it, but they know the doggies arent' killing each other. So its just a matter of dialogue, communication and education.. This my kids understand, naturally from growing up country and knowing what a bulldog is, its all just a matter of life experiences and education.. We work stock dogs, and predator control dogs, with pigs, goats, deer(just hang around) and ducks, pheasant, turkey and all roaming bear and coyotes come through frequently.. THAT is what dogs like this do GREAT is protect stock from predators.. and it requires testing pups drive and intelligence.. 

But we don't panic when we have kennel accidents, just pop the dogs apart and clean em up, bring em in the house to crate in and out for a while.. <think they do it just to come inside.. LOL but yeah my 11 yr old is the only one who can help me and he grew up in it like my other 5 kids and they are telling me which pup they like, not concerned at all about them killing each other.. See its just perspective.. 

I value your opinion, just tossing it out there that family friendly is now PG13, for lack of a better word. Some kids 5 yrs old are shooting each other on call of duty and halo, (not mine) but my kids come home wish I had my 360 so they could play their friends, but I sold it because they shouldnt be shooting each other in war like senerios, but thats my family opinion not the mass opinion.. But when they're friends come out their parents were concerned about my dogs at first but the kids all go home raving about wanting a bulldog like my son. They're parents think Im a snob cause I don't allow XBOX, but they can't have a puppy instead they get a GSD or Rotti, LOL.. REALLY?? They're kids know more about game bred APBTs than their parents. LOL My 5 yr old just helped my 11 yr feed my dogs and animals with me, again, experience and all. . . education is experience taught and learned.. again... Im glad you stated your clear opinion. You have a valid point, you may not want to explain that those doggies arent killing each other, but thats hard to understand until a pup gets mauled by a sow pig and fights back like a furry all over the head of that pig, LOL seeing that my 5 yr old laughed and said he was underdog.. LOL yes son, in more ways than one.


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Very good perspective. Thank you. It helps me understand where you're coming from a bit better.
I can totally agree with everything you just stated above. I never even thought of it that way.


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Xiahko said:


> I'm almost interested in seeing one of these game dog sites....But I dunno...
> I'm still having a hard time telling "game" from "cruelty" I think I'm starting to get a little bit more knowledge,but I'm not quite there yet.


It's ok Xia .... I was the same way until I was able to watch an old dog match between 2 old bulldogs. The more I have been around the breed the more I have been willing to learn and take in. If your not ready your not ready it shouldn't be forced on you. But it's always good to do some research and learn about the sport historically so you can understand what these dogs were truly bred for. There are so many lies about this breed and about the sport itself that until you have seen what really goes down you really don't know what to believe or think. I slowly overtime have embraced my dogs history and the dog men responsible for the dogs I own now. You can first start out with the some good game dog books written by some well respected dog men. And then I have some links to some old dog matches I would be willing to share with you if you wanted to see them. It really does give you a better understanding of the sport itself and what it was intended to be. You will see the dogs want to be in that box they are not being forced to fight a lot of the misconceptions will be cleared up for you I believe. Like I said when and if your ready. I have some things I can share with you just Pm me.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Sadie said:


> It's ok Xia .... I was the same way until I was able to watch an old dog match between 2 old bulldogs. The more I have been around the breed the more I have been willing to learn and take in. If your not ready your not ready it shouldn't be forced on you. But it's always good to do some research and learn about the sport historically so you can understand what these dogs were truly bred for. There are so many lies about this breed and about the sport itself that until you have seen what really goes down you really don't know what to believe or think. I slowly overtime have embraced my dogs history and the dog men responsible for the dogs I own now. You can first start out with the some good game dog books written by some well respected dog men. And then I have some links to some old dog matches I would be willing to share with you if you wanted to see them. It really does give you a better understanding of the sport itself and what it was intended to be. You will see the dogs want to be in that box they are not being forced to fight a lot of the misconceptions will be cleared up for you I believe. Like I said when and if your ready. I have some things I can share with you just Pm me.


:goodpost: well said..


----------



## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Paddy did Garner freeze semen off el *****?
> 
> R.I.P EL *****  What a great bulldog


im not paddy but i did talk to TG about this and he said he had frozen semen but would be very choosy about breedings. i would expect to see another 2000 price tag on any pups from such breedings when they do occur.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I don't see the point for dog matching, I do see a point to hunt however.


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

rob32 said:


> im not paddy but i did talk to TG about this and he said he had frozen semen but would be very choosy about breedings. i would expect to see another 2000 price tag on any pups from such breedings when they do occur.


Thanks Rob


----------



## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Thanks Sadie, I'll remember this for when,and if I am ready for that kind of stuff.


----------



## Kayo45 (Oct 12, 2010)

Great performer, great producer, and a dog with a great story behind him


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

davidfitness83 said:


> I don't see the point for dog matching, I do see a point to hunt however.


no point no breed.
they would just be further down descended bull baiters.
and having some of the better breeders still farming out dogs to their old circle of dogmen for testing,we would be another 20 odd years behind in their purpose.
yes,many MANY breeders with old stock have it on their yard,their yard of dogs with no scarred up heads,maybe A roll gash or some sort,yet they do and have always maintained game dogs.
theirs only one way to do it.there's A plethora of folks sending 2,3,4 pups off of A litter to south american countries canada,eurpoe, and still here in the more remote areas of this spascious country for "bring along".
I'm not dead set against A true dogman doing what they choose to do with an animal that chooses to do it.
I'm just not mentally into it any more.my need for that level of energy driven action has waned.it does not however alter my opinion of game,and game stock.two very distinctly different facets of this breed.


----------



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

william williamson said:


> no point no breed.
> they would just be further down descended bull baiters.
> and having some of the better breeders still farming out dogs to their old circle of dogmen for testing,we would be another 20 odd years behind in their purpose.
> yes,many MANY breeders with old stock have it on their yard,their yard of dogs with no scarred up heads,maybe A roll gash or some sort,yet they do and have always maintained game dogs.
> ...


Good Post Buddy!:goodpost:


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Sadie said:


> Good Post Buddy!:goodpost:


I hope so,I really tried to apply tact for this.
Dave knows my heart i think,yet too,so does the bulldog.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Very well said; Uncle Will Will, very well said................ :goodpost:


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I have respect for you guys and it's all about what our heart tells us. I know if it wasnt for dog matching we wouldn't have the wonderful breed but I'd rather see stock tested on hogs instead of other dogies


----------



## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

davidfitness83 said:


> I have respect for you guys and it's all about what our heart tells us. I know if it wasnt for dog matching we wouldn't have the wonderful breed but I'd rather see stock tested on hogs instead of other dogies


what is the difference? dog fighting is supposed to be cruelty to animals, thats why it was made illegal. how is pitting dogs against hogs any different in that respect?


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

rob32 said:


> what is the difference? dog fighting is supposed to be cruelty to animals, thats why it was made illegal. how is pitting dogs against hogs any different in that respect?


hogs are food source and feral hogs are nusciance everywhere they inhabit...

there are still some states that allow dog on hogs in a [] however most are insisting the pig be able to get free it wants.. (chuckle) you ever seen a pissed off razorback? whatever...

there was a case where some vietnamese imigrants slaughtered a dog and ate it. LOL they got off because they were not aware that dogs aren't allowed to be food here and they slaughtered it like we do pigs, goats, and sheep; when using a sharp blade.

Because we eat cows, and pigs.. we can still use catch dogs to work unrully cattle (bulls/steer) and feral hogs.. because they are not simply pets.


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

rob32 said:


> what is the difference? dog fighting is supposed to be cruelty to animals, thats why it was made illegal. how is pitting dogs against hogs any different in that respect?


hogging is way different.
you set bay with hounds,they scent and lead the other dogs.
then it becomes,yes,the adversarial assault of dog on pig,the difference is, is that the dog knows the difference of it's prey vs. another game dog.
another game dog is going to meet in the chaqrge innitially head on.they will parry for first lock and hold most of the time and strategically try to gain control or defend.
with A pig,he does any arrangement of things,yet they are all mostly defense.
they will attempt to intimidate,we,and many others use A few to several bulldogs that charge in for the hold.
I would never especially with the russians or big pigs put one or 2 dogs on them.they have weapons.their tusk.
I've seen dogs gutted even though they have vest on. their was one hog,he had 2 lowers that stuck straight out sideways,and were 5-6" long.he knew how to use them.when you got A young dog,he's not sometimes as choosy about how he charges,you try to keep him off of an older wiser pig.
and jump A bear,man,thats the worst feeling when that happens.your gonna lose dogs.
anyway,game dogs as to testing can't be matched up to testing with pigs.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

I didn't know people were sending their dogs off to S. America, Canada, etc, to test their dogs and stuff.


----------



## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

william williamson said:


> hogging is way different.
> anyway,game dogs as to testing can't be matched up to testing with pigs.


Because one is actually fighting back and the other is defending, right?


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

k8nkane said:


> Because one is actually fighting back and the other is defending, right?


most wild animals apply fight and flight.often we think of fight or flight,which is more applicable to human nature.
it's A given for the most part. so yes they are defending in order to remove themselves from the grip,then get away.
at some point A game dog will just quit the fight or be curred from going on, or quit or curr the other dog.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

william williamson said:


> most wild animals apply fight and flight.often we think of fight or flight,which is more applicable to human nature.
> it's A given for the most part. so yes they are defending in order to remove themselves from the grip,then get away.
> at some point A game dog will just quit the fight or be curred from going on, or quit or curr the other dog.


I seen a dog just stop like that in HI, LOL just stop... wasn't hurt still breathing good, but he just stopped like there was no life in him... crzy sht..

Yeah.. I argued that fight or flight in biology with the prof.. and said what about those people and animals that just freeze or those that flee and fight to flee again fightXflight.. why thats not taught as well because its just as instinctive and a part of ones natural make up. LOL I feel sorry for my profs.. LOL

R.I.P. El *****~


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

k8nkane said:


> I didn't know people were sending their dogs off to S. America, Canada, etc, to test their dogs and stuff.





william williamson said:


> most wild animals apply fight and flight.often we think of fight or flight,which is more applicable to human nature.
> it's A given for the most part. so yes they are defending in order to remove themselves from the grip,then get away.
> at some point A game dog will just quit the fight or be curred from going on, or quit or curr the other dog.


they've had some great dogs, theirs still blood from Bellons club,some folks say it don't exist,some blue killers.they still have many handlers down that way.
Mexico has any amount of good dogs. they test roll fight whatever..
it's getting harder to transport though because of the Zetas at every border crossing.
and guess what? they too are into game dogs.
but yeah, theirs dogs coming and especially going.


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Firehazard said:


> I seen a dog just stop like that in HI, LOL just stop... wasn't hurt still breathing good, but he just stopped like there was no life in him... crzy sht..
> 
> Yeah.. I argued that fight or flight in biology with the prof.. and said what about those people and animals that just freeze or those that flee and fight to flee again fightXflight.. why thats not taught as well because its just as instinctive and a part of ones natural make up. LOL I feel sorry for my profs.. LOL
> 
> R.I.P. El *****~


thats peculiar,theirs some dogs that will do that, then not be put down and then go out and get several W's in A row.
woods snooty 2 W 2 L.I can't think of others of the top of my head,I think wood snooty was ROM also.
I would enjoy A debate of fight or flight.
when you pig, and trap them live or catch live gators and snakes you develop that uncanny sense that the teacher tries to promote through just classroom experience.
they best not dip into it with A ******* though.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> hogs are food source and feral hogs are nusciance everywhere they inhabit...
> 
> there are still some states that allow dog on hogs in a [] however most are insisting the pig be able to get free it wants.. (chuckle) you ever seen a pissed off razorback? whatever...
> 
> ...


Well said firehazard  hogs destroy land kill animals in their ecosystem and they do not have a natural predator. Farmers loose millions of dollars because of hogs.


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

davidfitness83 said:


> Well said firehazard  hogs destroy land kill animals in their ecosystem and they do not have a natural predator. Farmers loose millions of dollars because of hogs.


have you seen the special on the impact they are having in Texas alone?'many millions,I thought the narrator made A mistake when he stated the facts.'solutely mazing.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

william williamson said:


> thats peculiar,theirs some dogs that will do that, then not be put down and then go out and get several W's in A row.
> woods snooty 2 W 2 L.I can't think of others of the top of my head,I think wood snooty was ROM also.
> I would enjoy A debate of fight or flight.
> when you pig, and trap them live or catch live gators and snakes you develop that uncanny sense that the teacher tries to promote through just classroom experience.
> they best not dip into it with A ******* though.


:rofl: aint that the truth... when have you a life of experience vs the definitions they are teaching in class... well its another story, you can teach the perceptions without any tenderfoot deception.<<-- 

yeah, if more people new about hog hunting with gamedogs there would be a good deal more hog hunters with APBTs.. I don't like a bunch of bayin, in HI they used 2 or 3 bandogs(ABPT/mastiff/greyhound) and had a couple of nice OFRN corvino shizzy from back when and some other nice blood just hiddin in the hills of HI. Them dogs were serious but when the pigs are 230lbs or more and with them tusks, need them dogs that know how to hold and kill.. so IMO the best way is catchin them baby hogs up, LOL bitin lil bastards.. LOL until they realize we feed em.. hahahahahaha boy you make a mean ol boar by agitating them with young pups and older as they grow.. hahahaha also the best way to raise a hog dog is rollin with pigs from day one. Many tusks hangin on them kennel walls in HI.. Your damm skippy about fight and flight .. I guarantee use right,, and you bob and weave, I know I aint the only one thats dodged a snake bite, fkn with a rattler or copperhead.. LOL let alone that freaky strength when pluckin dogs off a hog, heh.?? .. pigs get flipped and strung so fast sometimes I would be like damm.. I didn't let the dogs work.. up:


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Firehazard said:


> let alone that freaky strength when pluckin dogs off a hog, heh.?? .. pigs get flipped and strung so fast sometimes I would be like damm.. I didn't let the dogs work.. up:


and that right there is the facet of the dog going in hard when he realizes he has his back up.
and this is also the paralell in another order to game dogs.
how many dogs were not great dogs,and/or lost a match,then got shipped to either A diff owner or handler.
some folks line the dog up for the match through the keep mentally as much if not more than the excersizing and diet.
that dog has just GOTTA know that your heart and soul is in the box also.
ALL my dogs have an extreme aire of confidence once I ssst them.they know poppas got their back.
my dogs,all along have been just like the junkies I work with in recovery.
I,me! do not EVER let them down or give up on them.no matter how many times they fail at or in their efforts.
I always tell them,not to worry,that I'm behind them,and when they feel I should be in their front,just step aside,I got this.
dogs know it,and it's ironic,in the NA literature theirs A line it states,"being reduced to the animal level".
apparently by my nature and upbringing,my life history I am doomed to this life,being one with the animals I raise,and the human animals I attempt to teach through example theirs a better way,and to trust in something/someone.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

^ it is ironic.. some of my best dogs do just move, but when they hear that ssst. as you said, they know my heart is right there with em.. LOL I like it, so true.... 

your not doomed, man.. your blessed. To be everywhere you've been learn what you've learned and are still here to pass it on, na man, sounds like a blessing, and true blessings do not come without sacrifice. Life is a sacrifice  thats why its a blessing


----------



## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

i wasnt asking about the difference in the actual fighting of dog vs hog and dog vs dog, its obviously not going to be the same technically. the reason i asked the difference between the two in my original post was because dog fighting is deemed to be cruelty to animals by the general public, therefore, its become illegal. however, a similar fate can be dealt to a hog and thats not illegal.


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

rob32 said:


> i wasnt asking about the difference in the actual fighting of dog vs hog and dog vs dog, its obviously not going to be the same technically. the reason i asked the difference between the two in my original post was because dog fighting is deemed to be cruelty to animals by the general public, therefore, its become illegal. however, a similar fate can be dealt to a hog and thats not illegal.


yoju may not have,yet the variables,like it or not are major components in the legal and illegal aspects.
the Hog is A wild animal,yeaaah,they are from A domesticated source,albeit many generations past,they were livestock,yet it's easier for them to feral up than to be domesticated.
you put A feral pig in with dumbed down pigs and your in trouble. even A breeding boar is no match for a wild pig.
if you've ever been around A hog farm you'd see when they're loading for market, or moving them,and one escapes,you can take any kind of dog,as long as it will go in and even basically apply a grip or hold,the domesticated pig will submit.
A wild pig,I previously gave examples of their factors to the chase and fight.
old sows and boars will stem the advance of dogs,they will intimidate,then try to fight then retreat.especially when they can get to A swampy area,or A bog.once they know the dogs are biz minded they will sometimes turn on.
so essentially the pig, wild is more adversarial,hence hunting them is about sport,danger,and ALOT of it often,and A food source.
some folk live trap or catch them and grain them for A spell to displace some of the natural gamey taste.
so,hunting wild pigs with dogs is not cruel for folks who have A purpose.
with the proliferation of wild hogs,and were you to have land that they have over run and you chose to eradicate,I would not be for doggin them to just kill and let the meat spoil.
if your eradicating them you should use high power rifles,clean shoot them and not put an unwarranted burden on them mentally.it's not right. it's useless torture.
killing for sport and to eat,thats one thing,slow killing for some sick pleasure and doing nothing with the meat is inhumane.
it sounds out of kilter sort of,yet, many animals are killed for sport alone. so don't form A negative opinion of those who sport and eat.
leave that to PETA.
I hope this helps you.


----------



## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

william williamson said:


> yoju may not have,yet the variables,like it or not are major components in the legal and illegal aspects.
> the Hog is A wild animal,yeaaah,they are from A domesticated source,albeit many generations past,they were livestock,yet it's easier for them to feral up than to be domesticated.
> you put A feral pig in with dumbed down pigs and your in trouble. even A breeding boar is no match for a wild pig.
> if you've ever been around A hog farm you'd see when they're loading for market, or moving them,and one escapes,you can take any kind of dog,as long as it will go in and even basically apply a grip or hold,the domesticated pig will submit.
> ...


i wasnt actually seeking answers, just trying to see what people would say. however, your post still taught me some things i didnt know about hogs so, thanks.

part of the reason i posted this is because i HAVE seen some people who would hunt hogs, with bulldogs, for sport, and lets just say it didnt look very sporting. im sure not everyone goes about it the same way so i dont lay blame on anyone. my opinion may also be a bit skewed by the fact that i dont really like hunting if its just for sport alone and not for food. but this is all off topic lol.


----------



## danleys gracie (Jun 25, 2008)

I hate to see him passed away. He is a great looking dog from what I see in pictures. I did not know how old he was. I was hoping to get a puppy from one of his litter one day.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

rob32 said:


> i wasnt actually seeking answers, just trying to see what people would say. however, your post still taught me some things i didnt know about hogs so, thanks.
> 
> part of the reason i posted this is because i HAVE seen some people who would hunt hogs, with bulldogs, for sport, and lets just say it didnt look very sporting. im sure not everyone goes about it the same way so i dont lay blame on anyone. my opinion may also be a bit skewed by the fact that i dont really like hunting if its just for sport alone and not for food. but this is all off topic lol.


Whether it is for food or not, they need to keep their numbers down. Hogs cause massive damage to the ecosystem and to people's lands.

Dogs do not kill the hog, all they do is hold it in place so the hunter can come and kill. I doubt a dog can kill a hog unless it's a baby, the adult ones are huge and their skin is like concrete.


----------



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Leshaun Johnson had a Eli/Nigerino hog killing dog, only dog in the states I've seen that could killl a hog, seen a small OFRN in HI that could kill a hog; both dogs had devistating bites and had been crushing vertebrae on pigs throughout their life.. Both dogs died as a result of a 300lb pig with ravenous tusks; both dogs were also proven Ch with W's or more.

I don't agree with stabbing a pig in the heart, Im a bleeder, I bleed the pig out like slaughter animals, by a sharp knife and lettin loose the jugular. Because a stabbed pig can still do damage, but a pig bleedin out through the jugular isn't shaking anything.. I've seen a pig run another 100yds with the knife hanging out cause ol dude insisted thats the only way, rofalmao!.. He got the dumazz of the day award!

If Im hunting I carry a firearm, pistol or rifle or both...... I believe firmly in medula oblangata and if IM gonna eat the animal, I don't want it to panic so they never see it coming, they just drop.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> Leshaun Johnson had a Eli/Nigerino hog killing dog, only dog in the states I've seen that could killl a hog, seen a small OFRN in HI that could kill a hog; both dogs had devistating bites and had been crushing vertebrae on pigs throughout their life.. Both dogs died as a result of a 300lb pig with ravenous tusks; both dogs were also proven Ch with W's or more.
> 
> I don't agree with stabbing a pig in the heart, Im a bleeder, I bleed the pig out like slaughter animals, by a sharp knife and lettin loose the jugular. Because a stabbed pig can still do damage, but a pig bleedin out through the jugular isn't shaking anything.. I've seen a pig run another 100yds with the knife hanging out cause ol dude insisted thats the only way, rofalmao!.. He got the dumazz of the day award!
> 
> If Im hunting I carry a firearm, pistol or rifle or both...... I believe firmly in medula oblangata and if IM gonna eat the animal, I don't want it to panic so they never see it coming, they just drop.


Yeah I saw a video of it getting stabbed in the heart while the two dogs were still holding on it.

I have seen a video of a Malak grabbing a boar pretty crazy stuff. This dog could take the boar by it self, I am not sure if it killed it but it was def throwing the boar around like a ragdoll.

I read some stuff of LGD's and how they do not catch when they attack wolves or other wild animals threatning the herd. They rip and shredd and never hold because if they hold they can get jumped by the enemy pack. Basically a bulldog would catch a wolf and then the rest of the wolf would jump it, while a LGD attacks and bites and retrieves to try to get them to back off and surviving what do you think of this?


----------



## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

you will still have a chance at getting a pup off him eventually since TG plans on doing some breedings with frozen semen. the 3 pups he has left from el ***** are $2000 each, if he still has those even. when the forzen semen breedings do occur i would expect a price tag similar to 2000 then as well. honestly, i would get a pup off bobby peru, a very fine son of el ***** for 900 before id shell out double that for a pup from el *****. thats just my opinion tho.


----------



## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

rob32 said:


> you will still have a chance at getting a pup off him eventually since TG plans on doing some breedings with frozen semen. the 3 pups he has left from el ***** are $2000 each, if he still has those even. when the forzen semen breedings do occur i would expect a price tag similar to 2000 then as well. honestly, i would get a pup off bobby peru, a very fine son of el ***** for 900 before id shell out double that for a pup from el *****. thats just my opinion tho.


Bobby Peru is a nice doggy


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

davidfitness83 said:


> Bobby Peru is a nice doggy


amen to that,not a black dog guy either.


----------



## Kayo45 (Oct 12, 2010)

Bobby won't be with tom for that much longer


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Kayo45 said:


> Bobby won't be with tom for that much longer


age?
or going to A new program?
I'm not ready for A new dog yet,man,second want for A ride,and no bus.


----------



## Kayo45 (Oct 12, 2010)

william williamson said:


> age?
> or going to A new program?
> I'm not ready for A new dog yet,man,second want for A ride,and no bus.


He is only 5 and he will be going back to his owner soon. Talk to both tom and bobby's owner last week


----------



## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Kayo45 said:


> He is only 5 and he will be going back to his owner soon. Talk to both tom and bobby's owner last week


thats good.he's only 5,man,hopefully he's got some good work to do.
I just like that dog.


----------



## Kayo45 (Oct 12, 2010)

Well Bobby is done hunting so work is outta the question for him. Unless you know his owner, you won't be able to get pups from bobby once he leaves tom. Just letting those who are interested in squeeze know what is happening


----------



## rob32 (Sep 22, 2010)

that is unfortunate. my understanding was that tom was going to use bobby as a "replacement" for el *****. i wanted to get a pup off bobby sometime next year but if this is the case ill have to do something else. thanks for the info.


----------



## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

william williamson said:


> amen to that,not a black dog guy either.


Stage and Grace aren't very impressed with you right now


----------

