# what you think about this ped??



## pitbullman (Sep 6, 2011)

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [363650] :: SUPER KENNEL'S PEE WEE


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

heavy snooty... what's the dog look like?


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## pitbullman (Sep 6, 2011)

he is like buckskin


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## pitbullman (Sep 6, 2011)

hes little cause hes inbreed


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

pitbullman said:


> hes little cause hes inbreed


i like the ped.. i think firehazard was asking to see a pic to see him as far as body structure (the ped says his color) 

in my experience ive had some very heavily linebred dogs and it doesnt make them small just because they are inbred


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## pitbullman (Sep 6, 2011)

ima take a picture of him and post it


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

like the ped.looking forward to seeing the dog behind it


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## pitbullman (Sep 6, 2011)

ok im going to have some picture up soon on him but im really looking for the right dog to breed him with


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

May I ask what have you done with him ( titles, etc) that would make him worthy to breed? Just because a dog has a great ped does not mean it should be bred. (hey that rhymes!) 

Look forward to seeing some pictures!


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

Great ped if its all true (I think having the the wins on there, etc are tacky, but that is just me - the old wins where the dog was proved nation wide are all good). I feel the dog is line bred myself. Its really just semantics. If your dog grows to be healthy and a good representation of the breed, I would call him breed worthy. Many dogs are groped in a show ring, worked out, titled, but are still mutts. They are most definitely not breed worthy. These aint show dogs. They are working dogs that are being crossed and are endangered of being whipped off the face of the Earth.


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## pitbullman (Sep 6, 2011)

the picture is under my name


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

I agree, the ped looks decent enough (seen worse on here)...of course the equation is not complete until you know what dog you want to breed him to.


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## pitbullman (Sep 6, 2011)

i would like to breed my dog with a eli god or a mayday dog..


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

pitbullman said:


> i would like to breed my dog with a eli god or a mayday dog..


Has your dog proven itself in function and ability? Mentality, drive, put to use.. PEDs are nice to obtain, hand written or registry, it serves as a knowledge base for all that your dog is (or isn't) however that information doesn't define the dog, the dog defines itself true to nature.. If your dog isn't a hard worker, proven in tasks that test character and heart than he shouldn't be even considered for a breeding program.. If he has, than mentality, stability, sound structure should also ALL be considered..

There are LOTS of good Bulldogs, American Pit Bull Terriers, etc.. that really shouldn't be bred.. They offer nothing additionally to the gene pool in both preservation OR advancement within the yard or foundation structure that any other dog wouldn't offer.

Great pet qualities shouldn't be bred, there is enough pet quality dogs out there.

If your dog is proven in the show ring thats great, however that is not what these dogs are defined as thus still not breeding worthy unless we were talking about AST or Bully..

Only you know what you have done or haven't done, since you bring it up expect questions. We don't support useless breedings around here, so when someone new comes along mentioning breeding there is typically a wave of questions that follow.


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> Has your dog proven itself in function and ability? Mentality, drive, put to use.. PEDs are nice to obtain, hand written or registry, it serves as a knowledge base for all that your dog is (or isn't) however that information doesn't define the dog, the dog defines itself true to nature.. If your dog isn't a hard worker, proven in tasks that test character and heart than he shouldn't be even considered for a breeding program.. If he has, than mentality, stability, sound structure should also ALL be considered..
> 
> There are LOTS of good Bulldogs, American Pit Bull Terriers, etc.. that really shouldn't be bred.. They offer nothing additionally to the gene pool in both preservation OR advancement within the yard or foundation structure that any other dog wouldn't offer.
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost:


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

KMdogs said:


> Has your dog proven itself in function and ability? Mentality, drive, put to use.. PEDs are nice to obtain, hand written or registry, it serves as a knowledge base for all that your dog is (or isn't) however that information doesn't define the dog, the dog defines itself true to nature.. If your dog isn't a hard worker, proven in tasks that test character and heart than he shouldn't be even considered for a breeding program.. If he has, than mentality, stability, sound structure should also ALL be considered..
> 
> There are LOTS of good Bulldogs, American Pit Bull Terriers, etc.. that really shouldn't be bred.. They offer nothing additionally to the gene pool in both preservation OR advancement within the yard or foundation structure that any other dog wouldn't offer.
> 
> ...


I respect what you're saying and can not argue too much, although I doubt many who have listed breedings on here have done what you expect them to do...not just newbies either! Actually if they are not proven [] worthy(who cares if they are workers in agility, etc. or are good in the show ring), then they should not be bred...but this is just not going to happen for the majority. Like I said, I've seen worse pairings on here, but I understand the lesson you are teaching


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## pitbullman (Sep 6, 2011)

hey i know what i got here and i know hes going to produce some CH


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

pitbullman said:


> hey i know what i got here and i know hes going to produce some CH


Nobody can actually stop you from doin what you want to just remember no advertising here . we dont condone the breeding of untitled or unproven dogs


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Well, technically, hog hunting, agility training, conformation showing, weight pulling, etc. don't count either...so I'm not casting any stones LOL!!! Good luck to the OP, and continue to educate yourself before making any hasty decisions


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Saint Francis said:


> I respect what you're saying and can not argue too much, although I doubt many who have listed breedings on here have done what you expect them to do...not just newbies either! Actually if they are not proven [] worthy(who cares if they are workers in agility, etc. or are good in the show ring), then they should not be bred...but this is just not going to happen for the majority. Like I said, I've seen worse pairings on here, but I understand the lesson you are teaching





Saint Francis said:


> Well, technically, hog hunting, agility training, conformation showing, weight pulling, etc. don't count either...so I'm not casting any stones LOL!!! Good luck to the OP, and continue to educate yourself before making any hasty decisions


Hog hunting counts with Bulldogs aka not proven to APBT.. Show conformation, WP and anything that requires less than what the breed is shouldn't however.


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Im almost to the point of saying peds do more harm than good. Yes they serve as a good outline. Also great for braggin rights. Personally I want a dog who has already proven itself before coming to my yard. Yes I prefer adult dogs as strange as that seems. .


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

904bullys said:


> Im almost to the point of saying peds do more harm than good. Yes they serve as a good outline. Also great for braggin rights. Personally I want a dog who has already proven itself before coming to my yard. Yes I prefer adult dogs as strange as that seems. .


The dog proves the pedigree... The pedigree shows how you got the dog.. :cheers:

The best blood I've seen is on private pedigree handwritten charts


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

very true Stan. That being said some of the finest Boudreux blood Ive seen is wasting away in a dog pen In duval county, fl. NO WORK , NO CONDITIONING, NO nothing. For what? To preserve a bloodline.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Let's not fool ourselves, pedigrees are important. Whether they are of the private variety, or recorded thru a prominent registry, the history and legitimacy of a pup is certainly of value...value to the breed, or the direction of a program, trickling all the way down to the potential buyer. It is a practice that is as old as the breed itself. Keeping accurate records serves to keep the BYB's at bay, and is tandamount to good business. Now, certainly the ped doesn't prove a pup's ability, but it's a damn good place to start looking. We wouldn't even be having this conversation on the BLOODLINE section without peds LOL. Sometimes to get where you want to go, you have to know where you've been. Personally, I believe recording the lineage and preserving the history of the breed separates the APBT from many other breeds, as well as lending credibility to the old dogmen and their life's devotion. I thoroughly enjoy researching and learning from peds, but that's just me


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Great post aswell. Like I said previously, Peds give you an excellent outline. And when it comes down to it good dogs make good pedigrees make good blood lines. Ive always said a great working dog is always the best conformation dog. If I want a good hunting dog I want it proven in the field not paper.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Saint Francis said:


> Let's not fool ourselves, pedigrees are important. Whether they are of the private variety, or recorded thru a prominent registry, the history and legitimacy of a pup is certainly of value...value to the breed, or the direction of a program, trickling all the way down to the potential buyer. It is a practice that is as old as the breed itself. Keeping accurate records serves to keep the BYB's at bay, and is tandamount to good business. Now, certainly the ped doesn't prove a pup's ability, but it's a damn good place to start looking. We wouldn't even be having this conversation on the BLOODLINE section without peds LOL. Sometimes to get where you want to go, you have to know where you've been. *Personally, I believe recording the lineage and preserving the history of the breed separates the APBT from many other breeds, as well as lending credibility to the old dogmen and their life's devotion. I thoroughly enjoy researching and learning from peds, but that's just me :*)


I do agree and I think thats what that old school statement means.

Came about in a time when it was necessary for dogmen to have common sense. Even though they still do need it today, you have to spell it out like this ^^^^^above and people still will stack pedigrees for the wrong reason and breed themselves and their strains into a corner where they take desperate measures to outcross and then the whole strain goes to and letting a single dog with tons of old great irreplaceable genes go to :flush:.......... some strains have become fad and by fad they're everywhere. I lean away from most any kind of fad and feel that many a pedigreed animals have become just that with the working ability slighted because you and I know all these people aren't working they're dogs properly.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Yep, yep. Using and abusing...two flaws in human nature that we can not seem to get a handle on, even though the trail of such behavior can be seen thru out history. We are a greedy bunch, that's for certain. Use and abuse = fad. Well surmised Stan.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> I do agree and I think thats what that old school statement means.
> 
> Came about in a time when it was necessary for dogmen to have common sense. Even though they still do need it today, you have to spell it out like this ^^^^^above and people still will stack pedigrees for the wrong reason and breed themselves and their strains into a corner where they take desperate measures to outcross and then the whole strain goes to and letting a single dog with tons of old great irreplaceable genes go to :flush:.......... some strains have become fad and by fad they're everywhere. I lean away from most any kind of fad and feel that many a pedigreed animals have become just that with the working ability slighted because you and I know all these people aren't working they're dogs properly.


Gotta work through the used up bloodlines and find stock that has not been so "over bred". You hear so many people say that such and such line is no good any more. Because it has been in to many hands just passing it along to who ever will pay for it. It is really pretty sad...


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Rudy4747 said:


> Gotta work through the used up bloodlines and find stock that has not been so "over bred". You hear so many people say that such and such line is no good any more. Because it has been in to many hands just passing it along to who ever will pay for it. It is really pretty sad...


I would say Carver is the best blood i've had the privilege to work with, both in Bulldogs and Bandogs.. However, your point is exactly why i don't particularly put much stock in blood.. Not in specific sense, at least. Proven stock is proven stock, 95% of whats being bred (mostly thanks to registry standard breeding and pet quality) is either a shadow of traditional measures OR complete garbage.. ANY hound i'll get will be from private yards unless a real gem was produced and offered from a more public yard.. Which, is fairly uncommon.

It all loops back around to the same fundamental debates and arguments in new folk vs old, traditional vs new, preserve vs change, registry vs function..

When it is all said, if you have no use for function the only method to truly preserve, benefit, etc is to stay away from owning a dog.. Any dog. It wasn't up until the 1940s or so when it really start gaining in popularity of owning pet quality, breeding away from purpose.. You heard about it before but not as frequent and of course now in the 2000s its all about pet, spay and neuter and anything but the tradition of owning hounds to meet the lifestyle and needs.


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Thats right and thats why the best bulldog is the one you'll never know, with no extravagant pedigree, doing bulldog work. TROPHIES?! WE DONT NEED NO STINKIN TROPHIES! TO HELL WITH YOUR REGISTRIES. THERE A DIME A DOZEN. A GOOD BULLDOG ISN'T


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Its not as difficult as it seems. Cull the crap. If ya wanna a working dog aquire one. If you want a show dog thats pretty on paper then an ambully/English bulldog/ french bulldog can all be purchased under the RE name. If ya wanna call em pitbulls let em run with pitbulls. Survival of the fittest


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Saint Francis said:


> Yep, yep. Using and abusing...two flaws in human nature that we can not seem to get a handle on, even though the trail of such behavior can be seen thru out history. We are a greedy bunch, that's for certain. Use and abuse = fad. Well surmised Stan.


This conversation came upon my mind as I was fumbling through my Colby book and he basically said in those times common sense, ethics, and good moral standing was kinda the way to be... ...

.. .. How easily truth is manipulated for comfort. Comfortably feeding that beast you just named Use & Abuse ..


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> This conversation came upon my mind as I was fumbling through my Colby book and he basically said in those times common sense, ethics, and good moral standing was kinda the way to be... ...
> 
> .. .. How easily truth is manipulated for comfort. Comfortably feeding that beast you just named Use & Abuse ..


Simpler times for sure....ethics, morals, God, family, common sense, etc. have been shown the door these days unfortunately. No one is perfect, but the current state of affairs is catching up. One of my favorite lines in "Shawshank Redemption" involves an inmate who literally spent his whole life in prison and upon getting released as an old man he can't adapt to the new world, where he eventually commits suicide: "The world went and got itself in a big damn hurry". Anyway, good stuff Stan...and you are still the man


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Man Ole man i love listening to you crazy dudes. I wish there were more dogmen like yall around. Its either the hippy tree hugger(Peta type or the thugged out if aint blue it aint shit type Around here. Anyone give a dern about real bulldogs round these parts


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