# Are Bullys Pitbulls or not? ABKC show advertised as a pitbull show in CDA, ID



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

I couldn't help myself; after seeing all the diferent views and opinions on bully style dogs and following all of the threads closely, Many people believe the bully is not a pit bull, on the other hand EVERY stocky pit bull is SUDDENLY a BULLY.. Well here in CDA, ID on the front page is an article "Bullish on pitbulls" promoting a pedigreed show for pitbulls then on page two its all about the ABKC and Bully, only ABKC dogs are allowed as is sanctioned, ABKC sanctioned judges will be there, well if thats so whats all the pitbull talk? Article also notes Pam Carter of Gaff kennels in worely, ID for having the best females in the nation(self promotion?); I have a good mind to take my pretty lil' game dog up there show em' what a real PITBULL is.... Then again, maybe I will send my buddy with Diesel, hahaha:roll: heres the link with show information, Home

heres the article:http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_news/article_cc8bc4b7-feb1-53b5-a062-0813fc72bf9b.html

See this is what the problem is; If the dog is a bully and not a pitbull then it so be said as such, esspecially when they cause problems. If the bully is a pitbull, hence dual registries, RE and GOTTI both were registered as APBTs, Whopper dogs are registered APBTs, So whats that say for the dog men/women keeping the game dogs alive? What are they? IF bullys are pitbulls, what are game dogs? Just Game Dogs?
_ True working huskies have pedigrees but ARE NOT REGISTERED. Seems like the ADBA, Bonafide, etc.. are becoming something similar, function dogs with no place other than where they belong. _


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

Bullys are not pitbulls, A pitbull is a APBT a freaking* bulldog* a *working* dog,

I clicked the link and viewed that page its so stupid xl bully pit wtf also read that web link about that retard dude and his so called "pitbull"

Stuff like this gets me heated quicker than anything, anyone I come across that mentions the word pitbull then shows me a dog thats similar to the one in that picture I stop talkin to them and walk away

I guess if bullys are considered pitbulls then Apbts are just .................... something else.

Firehazard your post is the reason I don't use the word "pitbull" but I reckon there is no reason for discussing such issues cause nothing will ever change the world is to far gone


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Id be more worried if they were calling a Bully an American Pitbull Terrier. Pitbull can mean many breeds, which i dont no why its _stoopid_


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## Wingman (Oct 21, 2009)

It really annoys me when people breed this HULK dogs and claim they're APBT's. And if you look at the link to that kennel they claim they breed them within standard. In my opinion an APBT should be bred for gaminess. It's a working dog that should be able to run and be extremely agile. Those dogs look so muscle bound that they wouldn't be able to run for any longer than 5 minutes before collapsing from exhaustion. A pitbull should be well muscle and lean, capable of running flat out and turning on a dime. These dogs just look cumbersome. That's my opinion the bully matter in general.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Its a dead horse now. lol Bullys are not apbt. See Pam Carter use to have nice dogs, then something went wrong, ever since I saw a Mastiff on her yard her dogs got bigger things that make you go hmmmmmm It will never end papers equal more money so why not register them as pit bulls, breed yoru female to a male mastiff, but say your pit bull is the dad and you have papers and a monster pit bull.


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

gamer said:


> Its a dead horse now. lol Bullys are not apbt. See Pam Carter use to have nice dogs, then something went wrong, ever since I saw a Mastiff on her yard her dogs got bigger things that make you go hmmmmmm It will never end papers equal more money so why not register them as pit bulls, breed yoru female to a male mastiff, but say your pit bull is the dad and you have papers and a monster pit bull.


Great! Thanks!
Thats how they do it.:flush:

Ha ha

Just kidding


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Hahaha, well ya'll at least Im not alone.... Thats funny Mcleoud I use "bulldog or gamedog" most people are lost then I say pitbull they are like oH, yeh... :hammer: the papers are rung, the blood is scattered and the horse is a bloody pulp, this is a major issue, forget that! its a complete subscription,  :roll: It crawls on me, so I had to see what others thought.

On a similar note, I know a kennel in Oklahoma producing Am Bulldogs and APBTs(90lb+ dogs) LOL; Just google search _*Mccabe APBT PEDIGREE, ROFALMAO... *_ BANDOGGES all of them {chuckles}


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## jmejiaa (Dec 8, 2009)

Pit Bull isn't a breed from what I understand. The media throws the Pit Bull name out for anything that has 4 legs and mauled something...

But no, Bully isn't an APBT..


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

WOW I can't believe no one commented on the article!

COEUR d'ALENE - It probably doesn't hurt to have a good attitude walking into Steve and Sarah Parker's house.
Then again, it might not matter that much to the *three pit bulls* that greet visitors to their Coeur d'Alene home. There are no threatening growls or bared teeth, only wagging tails and the occasional whimper of a pup looking for a little attention.
"They love people, and other dogs," Steve said.

*Rico and Tiva are both 2 1/2 years old, and Tiva is due to give birth to a litter on June 12. Kimbo, five months old, still sniffs at his mother's belly now and then, but is long-since weaned, and more interested in playing than nursing.*

"cough cough" backyard breeders...

For the Parkers, the dogs are part of the family, and they are part of a commun
ity of owners of the sometimes controversial breed. On June 26, they will hold The Summer Showdown, an* American Bully Kennel Club*-sanctioned show at the Kootenai County Fairgrounds.

Steve got his first pitbull several years ago, and realized he had an affinity for the breed.
"I like how they look, muscular, pretty," he said. Soon he bought Rico and Tiva and began breeding them under the name Ultimate Bully Pitbull.

*Their color, called blue, is rare among pitbulls, which come in brindle, fawn, black and red.*

*
*he said." *Everybody that calls wants blue."*

The Parkers recognize that pitbulls, raised wrong, have gained a negative reputation after numerous incidents when the dogs harmed humans or other animals. Breeding and proper attention are vital, they said, and *they and other responsible breeders of pitbulls* look for good core temperament and will not raise animals who show signs of issues.
"People thing, 'Oh my god, a pitbull,'" Sarah said. "They are not horrible monsters. They are great family pets."
Their daughter Emma, only 4, takes command of Tiva on a family walk with the two parents and their offspring, and gleefully greets another member of the family, Luka, Kimbo's brother, when he stops by for a visit.
"They are attached at the hip," said Joe Ornellas, who owns Kimbo and will be a judge for the fun show at the fairgrounds.

Only *American Bully Kennel Club registered pitbulls* will be accepted for the main show, but a "fun show" between the two main shows will include *boxer*s, bull mastiffs, and bulldogs, *all part of the "bully" category of dogs*.

When did boxers become "bulldogs"

The first of its kind in Idaho, the regional show with points being earned for further levels of competition will include kennels from California, Oregon, Montana, Utah, Seattle and Boise.
Judges will include ABKC representatives, along with Pam Carter of Gaff Kennels in Worley, owner of one of the top female pitbulls in the country.
Vendors and adoption and other information booths will be part of the show, and portions of the proceeds from admission will go to the Kootenai Humane Society. Raffles will also be held during the day.
Part of the goal is to increase awareness of the breed.
The Parkers' own children spend time with the pups from the time they are born, and the dogs need a significant amount of interaction with humans.
"They always want to be around you," Steve said. "They need good training. They are a big, strong dog. They love doing active things."
Pitbulls are a loyal breed, Ornellas said, that become "attached at the hip" to their owners.
"They are like people," he said. "If they are mistreated they won't be nice."
But, Steve said, they are easy to care for with their short hair.
Care and attention are vital to the raising of pitbulls, the Parkers say.
"They can't be in a kennel all day," Sarah said. "They get lonely."
While the main show will be limited to ABKC registered dogs,* owners of pedigreed pitbulls *registered through other organizations can get a temporary certificate for $20.
Admission to the show is $10, with $2 going to the Humane Society.

So great.. this has set us all back about oh a good 10 years...


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Um yea and the part in the beginning about how blue is a really rare color. WTF ever. Every Mofo on earth has a blue dog now. In all honesty I see may more blue dogs than red ones. What a big ol pile of


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Yeah and... the dogs are 2 1/2, she is pregnant and has a 5 month old pup from a previous litter... WTF?


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Yea that's a bunch of bull  That poor girl. I wish I could send a slap through the mail.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

WOW, :hammer: I thought it riled me up.. =)) I agree 100% 

"Theres a huge cloud of ." "Watchout everybody there's a storm coming."(Kingpin) LOL


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> WOW, :hammer: I thought it riled me up.. =)) I agree 100%
> 
> "Theres a huge cloud of ." "Watchout everybody there's a storm coming."(Kingpin) LOL


:clap::clap::clap:










:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

There was positive in the article, maybe they should have written the typical baby killer article and we would all be good with it. I agree the terminology and misrepresentation of a breed is frustrating.

I honestly believe that although the AmBully is not a APBT, I did not see anything that negatively affects the breed, in fact to a reader it's very positive. The typical GPB reader has above average knowledge of the breed, however your typical newspaper reader in Idaho does not, and if they go to the show they maybe astonished at how friendly the dogs are. At the show there will be tons of AmBully verbage and hopefully someone will explain the difference at the show.

Either way I disagree it sets us back, in fact it's relatively positive press for a often maligned breed, but let's not focus on that and get our APBT picket signs and protest the misrepresentation of our beloved breed.

Sometimes we as a community should focus on the big picture, if we don't know what the big picture is, perhaps we should adjust our focus.


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## Inf602 (Apr 13, 2009)

Well said BTK. It seems like mostly everyone took the positive out of that article just to bash the Bully! It seems like people have forgotten what the true goal was and that was informing the public. It makes me wonder that if someone truly knows the difference and doesn't provide proper information to those who are mis-informed then who is truly STOOPID? Food for thought.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Inf602 said:


> Well said BTK. It seems like mostly everyone took the positive out of that article just to bash the Bully! It seems like people have forgotten what the true goal was and that was informing the public. It makes me wonder that if someone truly knows the difference and doesn't provide proper information to those who are mis-informed then who is truly STOOPID? Food for thought.


LOl the problem was with the age of the dogs when they were being bred, and stating that there was a rare color blue. I dont think people were bashing bullies. They were bashing a BYB.

Yes BTK well said it is nice to see an educated bully owner who doesnt walk around with his hackles up waiting for a fight if someone says the slightest thing about a bully.


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

BullyTheKid said:


> There was positive in the article, maybe they should have written the typical baby killer article and we would all be good with it. I agree the terminology and misrepresentation of a breed is frustrating.
> 
> I honestly believe that although the AmBully is not a APBT, I did not see anything that negatively affects the breed, in fact to a reader it's very positive. The typical GPB reader has above average knowledge of the breed, however your typical newspaper reader in Idaho does not, and if they go to the show they maybe astonished at how friendly the dogs are. At the show there will be tons of AmBully verbage and hopefully someone will explain the difference at the show.
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

once again btk...thank you...much love and respect


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I was bashing the praising of BYB practices. And the fact that they are furthering the belief that blue is rare. So now every jerk can go out and peddle more "rare blue pitts" AND it also makes common people believe that a pit bull is what is pictured.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

gamer said:


> LOl the problem was with the age of the dogs when they were being bred, and stating that there was a rare color blue. I dont think people were bashing bullies. They were bashing a BYB.
> 
> Yes BTK well said it is nice to see an educated bully owner who doesnt walk around with his hackles up waiting for a fight if someone says the slightest thing about a bully.


:goodpost:


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

The negative is that if someone's idea of a pitbull is what is portrayed here, and decide they want one, but they want a red one, for whatever reason they end up with a dog down from Yellow, or Mayday, or Tonka etc... LOL what about the 27lbers those little guys are ten times the intensity.

_I was all excited about positive pitbull promotion_, but as I read it wasn't postive pit bull promotion rather bully promotion as pit bulls so mis representing the breed. JMO Pit Bull is a function term, and only one dog holds to be the Pit Bull from then until now, the APBT, should be promoted in no other way other than game bred dog of function.


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## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

Unfortunately to the general public, Pitbull the generic term for a lot of sizes, shapes, and energy levels of bulldogs, will always be what the media portrays it to be. So whether you feel that the dogs at the ABKC event are physically representing the breed in the fashion you feel would best portray the dogs is irrelavent, the fact is they will be representing the generic term Pitbull in a positive light. 

Here's the positive, a family, not drug dealer, gangster rap listening thugs own dogs that they love. Dogs that did not attack the reporter as media reports often insinute the breed would. The fact that a small child not only lives there but is handling and interacting with the dogs. The fact that a portion of profits will benefit the local
humane society and so on and so on. 

Due to the fact the breed is facing such horrible scrutiny from the majority of media outlets, it is a refreshing read to be able to read positive press.

As I said in my earlier posts, I fully understand the frustration, however the true rare aspect of the breed is the 29 pound firecracker, do I think the general public will just have a true to form Bulldog fall into their yard, nope. Once again if you attend the show, you will find few that claim the dogs as APBTs, hopefully in Idaho the patrons will be informed of what they are looking at.

For those who read my last post and understood where I was coming from thank you. I truly respect this breed for all that it was and all it can be, I seperate the breeds as what they are, but acknowledge the fact that in the grand scheme of things the battle is the same. Positive press is good for both sides, just as negative press for either, is bad for both.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

BullyTheKid said:


> Unfortunately to the general public, Pitbull the generic term for a lot of sizes, shapes, and energy levels of bulldogs, will always be what the media portrays it to be. So whether you feel that the dogs at the ABKC event are physically representing the breed in the fashion you feel would best portray the dogs is irrelavent, the fact is they will be representing the generic term Pitbull in a positive light.
> 
> Here's the positive, a family, not drug dealer, gangster rap listening thugs own dogs that they love. Dogs that did not attack the reporter as media reports often insinute the breed would. The fact that a small child not only lives there but is handling and interacting with the dogs. The fact that a portion of profits will benefit the local
> humane society and so on and so on.
> ...


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I don't know why everyone is crying out "fowl for the bully" This article was simply misinforming and glorifying back yard breeding.


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## gamer (Feb 1, 2010)

Shes Got Heart said:


> I don't know why everyone is crying out "fowl for the bully" This article was simply misinforming and glorifying back yard breeding.


Its because IMO bully owners or most of them, are so thin skinned and walk around with hackles up ready to jump on anything that may seem like a bad thing is being said and fight. Its silly really I didnt think anyone was bashing bullies.


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## Beedeezy10 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hey guys, I'm a newbie here and as well as owning a pit. After reading this thread, I must have a bully then. I'm not familiar with bloodlines at all, so this is really helpful. I bought my puppy from a friend of mines who have a male gotti and a female razor edge, which produced my tiny tot. Is it any where I can learn more about "Bullies"? I've been researching the wrong breed for a while now. Feel a little dumbfounded actually, but hey everyone is ignorant in some field or another. 

Thank for the info again guys!


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your new puppy!
There are tons of threads on here about bullies,I would just use the search engine on the top of the page.Or if there is something you need help with that you can't find,just ask!Welcome again!


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

The problem starts when people think of the pit bull as a breed of dog rather than a type of dog. The standards are so loose, you could fit just about anything in there sideways. "If I got papers, it must be true." :flush:


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## Beedeezy10 (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks Dixieland and I see that now Buzhunter. I really do appreciate the info. Now I can learn about the proper breed.


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

Ya'll are confusing me again. LOL..I don't like the pics on the link if that's a bully. But someone else mentions "working bully". And then there is ambully. I'm kinda wondering just what each of my dogs would be catagorized as now. 
As for the prey and game drive, I still don't understand why you want to keep that so strong unless you are truely hunting with these dogs. If they were bred to fight why would you desire to keep that in them? It is after all one of the things that is hurting them. People know that is in them and that fear does not want them to be anywhere near their dogs. You keep saying "working" dogs...working doing what? I can't imagine anything other than hunting. And then a hunter usually only wants a dog to tree, or hold something (boar) until he gets there, or he wants a retriever or pointer to locate or to bring back which means a soft mouth. Please explain to me just what kind of hunting or work you keep referring to with these dogs.


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## jayandlacy (Sep 21, 2009)

I have said this so many times, perhaps not here in this forum but I have said it, regardless of who thinks what about whether or not someones dog is a American Pit Bull Terrier or a Bully whatever, guess what, in the end if Breed Specific Legislation is passed where you live, they will come for both dogs, they will not question if the dog is apbt or bully.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

jayandlacy said:


> I have said this so many times, perhaps not here in this forum but I have said it, regardless of who thinks what about whether or not someones dog is a American Pit Bull Terrier or a Bully whatever, guess what, in the end if Breed Specific Legislation is passed where you live, they will come for both dogs, they will not question if the dog is apbt or bully.


THis right here is why I have said many times on this forum; that the GAMEBRED american pit bull terrier needs to adopt a new name to save itself and its herritage, Original Game Bred Bulldog, for instance.. Have to keep the game dog alive despite what comon people think and media promotes its the game dogs with the balanced mentality everyone adores in the APBT. ITs the badly bred dogs for looks or whatever that have combined with ignorant owners make it a do or die situation for the American Game dog


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

coppermare said:


> Ya'll are confusing me again. LOL..I don't like the pics on the link if that's a bully. But someone else mentions "working bully". And then there is ambully. I'm kinda wondering just what each of my dogs would be catagorized as now.
> As for the prey and game drive, I still don't understand why you want to keep that so strong unless you are truely hunting with these dogs. If they were bred to fight why would you desire to keep that in them? It is after all one of the things that is hurting them. People know that is in them and that fear does not want them to be anywhere near their dogs. You keep saying "working" dogs...working doing what? I can't imagine anything other than hunting. And then a hunter usually only wants a dog to tree, or hold something (boar) until he gets there, or he wants a retriever or pointer to locate or to bring back which means a soft mouth. Please explain to me just what kind of hunting or work you keep referring to with these dogs.


Because everyone wanted a dog from the little rascals, media craze.. Not to mention the APBT was the mascot for WWII .. neutral but not scared of any of them.. In 1945 that dog was ... sorry those dogs rascal and petey both CH and siblings used in the tv sitcom, the badages on those dogs were REAL from CONTESTESTED MATCHES and they WERE STILL the SAFEST dogs around children, as they are to THE DAY.. IT IS THE SLANG term refference of PIT BULL that has put the REAL pit bull on the chopping block, screw all those worthless dogs posing as APBTS its a big difference in looking like the dog and being the dog, if you dont want a game dog, then DONT get a APBT all those other things need their own NAME or the game dogs need to seperate from the APBT glooming cloud. 
"Everyone wants a little package of dynamite; no one wants to deal with the sweating nitro."(SL) Dont alter the game dog to make it pasified, just get an AM staff or a Staff or a Bull Terrier, LEAVE OUR GAME DOGS ALONE


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> Because everyone wanted a dog from the little rascals, media craze.. Not to mention the APBT was the mascot for WWII .. neutral but not scared of any of them.. In 1945 that dog was ... sorry those dogs rascal and petey both CH and siblings used in the tv sitcom, the badages on those dogs were REAL from CONTESTESTED MATCHES and they WERE STILL the SAFEST dogs around children, as they are to THE DAY.. IT IS THE SLANG term refference of PIT BULL that has put the REAL pit bull on the chopping block, screw all those worthless dogs posing as APBTS its a big difference in looking like the dog and being the dog, if you dont want a game dog, then DONT get a APBT all those other things need their own NAME or the game dogs need to seperate from the APBT glooming cloud.
> "Everyone wants a little package of dynamite; no one wants to deal with the sweating nitro."(SL) Dont alter the game dog to make it pasified, just get an AM staff or a Staff or a Bull Terrier, LEAVE OUR GAME DOGS ALONE


This in no way answered the questions I posted above.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

I think he's saying that if you don't want a dog that will completely work it's butt off then don't get an apbt,but get am amstaff.That these "game" dogs will redirect their drive onto prey while hunting or the likes.That if you like the looks and dedication of these dogs but don't want all the gameness that goes along with a pure and true apbt,then get an amstaff.
It doesn't necessarily have to be hunting.But I think it needs to be some sort of work for the dog to focus and redirect his attention and love on.
But I could be wrong in what he's trying to say.Maybe I should let him simplify it for you.I don't usually tend to disagree at all with what Firehazard says.
Darn it now I'm confusing myself :rofl:


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

jayandlacy said:


> I have said this so many times, perhaps not here in this forum but I have said it, regardless of who thinks what about whether or not someones dog is a American Pit Bull Terrier or a Bully whatever, guess what, in the end if Breed Specific Legislation is passed where you live, they will come for both dogs, they will not question if the dog is apbt or bully.


While I tend to agree to a certain degree,I still think it is wise to educate people on the differences between the two.


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## NorCalTim (Mar 26, 2007)

coppermare said:


> Ya'll are confusing me again. LOL..I don't like the pics on the link if that's a bully. But someone else mentions "working bully". And then there is ambully. I'm kinda wondering just what each of my dogs would be catagorized as now.
> As for the prey and game drive, I still don't understand why you want to keep that so strong unless you are truely hunting with these dogs. If they were bred to fight why would you desire to keep that in them? It is after all one of the things that is hurting them. People know that is in them and that fear does not want them to be anywhere near their dogs. You keep saying "working" dogs...working doing what? I can't imagine anything other than hunting. And then a hunter usually only wants a dog to tree, or hold something (boar) until he gets there, or he wants a retriever or pointer to locate or to bring back which means a soft mouth. Please explain to me just what kind of hunting or work you keep referring to with these dogs.



Hello.
The American Bully is a new breed.
The APBT, or Bull Dog, is a working breed.
It is a Terrier.
Yes, he can hunt.
The gameness from his forefathers, WHEN KEPT PURE, allows for a:

stable temperament,
the feeling that a dog (as Greenwood would say) "can lick the whole world", does not mean he attacks dogs. He is just very confident. He can walk with your children to the store and back, not worried about other dogs or people.

A dog kept pure is a people friendly dog.

A pocket pit bred w/ a frenchy, or a Bully w/ a Mastive, etc. does not have the human friendliness of a dog that has been bred for hundreds of years for gameness.

A working breed can just take care of your kids and house (and you). That is work.

One of our pups works with disabled children. Terriers are very personable. The American Bully is personable, however is not a pure bred Terrier. Give them exercise.

Let they swim with seals 





and climb trees.










The past breeders did not breed for looks. We have to keep the Terrier a dog that can still be able to hold down a Bull if need be.
If not, it is not an APBT.
It is another breed, plain and simple.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Dixieland! North Cal tim.. My mind is like a hamster wheel of information, LOL you should see me in algebra, hahaha. THANK YOU BOTH.. .Thats what Im saying in a nutshell and outlined out in crayone


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## ralford08 (Oct 7, 2008)

You want to keep the prey and game drive so strong in these dogs because that's how they have been bred to be. That is the pitbull in it's true form, and if that's not how you want your dog to be then you need to go with a different breed. You could get a cocker spaniel, poodle, or even a bully since they've bred all the gameness out of them. Dogs being bred to fight isn't what hurt the breed. Uneducated people aquiring the breed is what has hurt them the most.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

jayandlacy said:


> I have said this so many times, perhaps not here in this forum but I have said it, regardless of who thinks what about whether or not someones dog is a American Pit Bull Terrier or a Bully whatever, guess what, in the end if Breed Specific Legislation is passed where you live, they will come for both dogs, they will not question if the dog is apbt or bully.


The BSL epidemic goes hand in hand with the pet bull/bully explosion. Pit bull dogs lived in this country for generations with no worries. High time to make a clear distinction IMO.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

coppermare said:


> Ya'll are confusing me again. LOL..I don't like the pics on the link if that's a bully. But someone else mentions "working bully". And then there is ambully. I'm kinda wondering just what each of my dogs would be catagorized as now.
> As for the prey and game drive, I still don't understand why you want to keep that so strong unless you are truely hunting with these dogs. If they were bred to fight why would you desire to keep that in them? It is after all one of the things that is hurting them. People know that is in them and that fear does not want them to be anywhere near their dogs. You keep saying "working" dogs...working doing what? I can't imagine anything other than hunting. And then a hunter usually only wants a dog to tree, or hold something (boar) until he gets there, or he wants a retriever or pointer to locate or to bring back which means a soft mouth. Please explain to me just what kind of hunting or work you keep referring to with these dogs.


If you love pit bulls, it's the characteristics and tendancies of the game bred dog that you love whether you realize it or not. If nobody ever created a game bred bull and terrier type dog, you'd have never had the opportunity to appreciate their qualities because the dog would have never existed. Can't have one without the other.


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

Got it. I think. Then I don't like gamebred dogs or APBT's or ones with very high prey drive. For this reason. I own livestock, I like barn cats, and I do enjoy living out in the country. I want a dog that I can trust with my horses and other animals. I don't want a dog that I'm afraid would go to someone elses house and kill cats, goats, chickens or what not because out here he'll be shot without question.


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## meganc66 (Mar 6, 2009)

I don't really see a bunch of bully owners in here freaking out cuz people are bashing, and i know we have quite a few on here and i commend them for being the better person and not turning this into a huge "fight". Thanks BTK, because I agree with you wholeheartedly on everything you said. I like Am Bullies. I don't like XXL Am Bullies, but I really enjoy a standard or classic one. Not sure if any of you have seen one in person, but ... very lovely. I encourage everyone that owns a Bully to call it that, as will I.  

I also agree with jayandlacy, we need to focus on anti-BSL.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Buzhunter, Ralford, thats it in a nutshell.. For sure  As far as the livestock thing, my heavy game bred dog Hooch from proven stock, was a STOCK dog, surpassed heelers, border collies at herding goats, sheep, and esspecially cattle, Hooch also was experienced and very well at herding horses from us living on a horse ranch in Paden Oklahoma, I was the live in vet tech. Cats, chickens, all sorts of livestock family pets and definitely my CHILDREN and ANYONE ELSES CHILDREN were safe as could be with Hooch or any other "Bulldog" GAMEDOG APBT brought up as a stock or farm dog, Hooch wrangled lose 3000lbs bulls and snaggled one up saving my landlords life, and know just when to stop after all people were cleared of danger, I gave the whistle and he broke OKAY maybe a whistle or 2 :roll: I promote my dogs that I place as country dogs and stock dogs, thats what they DO BEST, its an ALL DAY job and they get to USE THEIR grappling skills to catch and kill coyotes, foxes, bobcats, and feral dogs.... SO YES if you want a IRREPLACEABLE stock dog, a well bred Zebo/Garner dog or Jocko blood, will work for you great, I'm sure other bloodlines will do well these are just the ones I have settled with pushing them to the max of the definition "bulldog", game bred APBT. You guys have said it very clearly and unbiased. I don't unlike the classic bully dogs, those are the only BULLY dogs IMO those others are just fubar, BUT THE classic bully is an AMSTAFF, IMO from pedigreed studies, game bred ancestors bred for a LOOK and LESS GAME.. SO AGAIN, most people who think they want a APBT need, a diferent bully breed, but anyone on a farm on land or living a ranch lifestyle need no other than a the REAL DEAL, The only dogs live on my 10 acre mt ranch are those that can put it down at night while we sleep without getting eat, coyotes, coyote wolf mixes, mt. lions, bobcats, wolverines, raccoons, feral dogs and of course bears. They are the TRUE old yellar.. NO CURRING allowed


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## noodlesgranny (May 31, 2010)

Shes Got Heart said:


> Yeah and... the dogs are 2 1/2, she is pregnant and has a 5 month old pup from a previous litter... WTF?


 As my daughter-in-law would say "BYB?" I thought she was going to have a stroke yesterday when some lady at the show told her that her dog had just had a litter a couple of months ago and as soon as she was in heat again she was going to breed her again.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

coppermare said:


> Got it. I think. Then I don't like gamebred dogs or APBT's or ones with very high prey drive. For this reason. I own livestock, I like barn cats, and I do enjoy living out in the country. I want a dog that I can trust with my horses and other animals. I don't want a dog that I'm afraid would go to someone elses house and kill cats, goats, chickens or what not because out here he'll be shot without question.


In my mind it doesn't have anything to do with the prey drive,but on how you train it to act on that prey drive.
For example,and this may not be too good an example because Pretty Girl doesn't have as high drive as others,we have cats,goats,and chickens.I've been working with Pretty Girl.She's never chased cats inside or out.Chickens she never really had to much thought of.And the goats I've been working with her with.
In the beginning she wanted only to play with them.I have since redirected that into a herding or working instinct.When seeing the goats out in the part of the yard that they are not supposed to be,I will call her and tell her to get the goats.She knows exactly what this means and seems to be very happy doing it.She will chase the goats nipping at their heels to the place where they are supposed to be.
For me it didn't affect other livestock.Our neighbors horse got into our yard and Pretty Girl chased it back out.Not by being mean or anything.She actually looked like any other herding dog does while doing work.Not overly mean,just trying to do her work.
And since teaching her this new "work" for her I have noticed a much happier dog.That's why I was wanting to get started in hog catching too.


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## dixieland (Aug 14, 2009)

I meant to add this on the other post.This is Pretty Girl getting ready to double back around to chase the baby goat back.
I told her to get the goat (in the background) and so she's making her way around the first car to do so.
I really need to get more pics of her in action.
Oh and let me say,she never went after the neighbors horse until I told her to get it out of the yard.IE Herd it home


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

Today my pup saw his first cat, I NEEDED to go ahead and introduce him to one and in the past I've had the best luck when they grow up with the other animals or livestock. But, there has been no cats around. He got very interested, It's a wild or stray cat so I just kept telling him no. I have no idea what his intentions were going to be. I do know that he has shown interest in the horses, mostly to go eat horse poop but he keeps trying to sniff their feet. He's got bopped very lightly one time and I get on to him severely about going around them. My horses (a couple) do not like dogs at all around them. And they have hurt some of my other dogs. It's not a pretty sight to see your dog with his skull cracked open. I have one mare that won't move until she's sure her aim is dead on target. Another that goes with head down and will strike with her front feet. I don't want Gage anywhere around them out in the pasture, that one oops could cost him his life. Blue heelers and such are different. They are bred for this type work. They instinctivly duck horses kicks. Pretty amazing to watch.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

my dog Hooch toppled a heelers ability with cattle and horses.. The pit intelligence as it is called keeps a dog mindfull of his surroundings, and what the other animal is doing, I've seen Hooch kicked in the jaw, the head, the side, and as the book title says, hes a dog of "Velvet and Steel." I do not believe Heelers are better herding dogs, Like Colby once said, the "pit" bulldog can out do any breed at what it was bred to do, then whip em' when its done. Don't mean to soap box~ can't stand to see people say APBT is not a stock dog.. buahahhahahahaha they are the original stock dog, the original bulldog, other breeds were improved by adding APBT like the HEELER oh yeh, those were birddogs, or dalmations the most I've seen admitted by anyone other than owners of working dogs who will admit AmStaff.. WTF??(they always BS about adding the APBT as if it takes away from their NEW breed, or maybe it will just HIGHLIGHT one breed in particular, APBT) None of those breeds have anything to offer to a herding dog, the APBT has more than people know how to handle, the APBT is a BULLDOG that was THROWN into the PIT. FIGHTING DOG 2nd STOCK DOG 1st  Game bred dog isn't a mindless fighter, quite contrary, he is a tactition with endless endurance and will;a bullet proof catch machine, your .38 or .45 on command.


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

I've never seen a pit used as a stock dog. I've watched heelers, catahoula's, border collies, austrailian sheps and others. Most dogs want to hamstring a horse or cow. The border collies I watched were with goats and it was pretty darn awesome! Two or three of them working off hand signals. The particular blue heeler I referred to I WISHED my horse would have kicked her brains slap out!!! She belonged to neighbors and everytime we went riding she was nippin my horses ankles. Everytime my horse tried to take a shot at her that fat lil heifer would drop down like a snake on the ground and keep out of the blow's way.

I don't want my dog kicked period! I had a little mutt dog and she was awesome at herding the horses and getting a colicky horse up but the day she got kicked in the head upset me to no end. She was white and her little head was blood soaked. All she was trying to do was help me. I'd rather do all the work myself than see my dog hurt. And believe me, I've got a couple of horses that should have been donkey's when it comes to dogs. 
LOL we had a neighborhood jenny that kept getting out. I'd put my rott and GSD (at that time) on her to get her out of my yard. After the first "round" with her the next time I opened the door and put them on her and the rott took off like a firecracker, he saw it was her and he skidded brakes and ran back home!!! LOL it was so funny...


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

coppermare said:


> I've never seen a pit used as a stock dog. I've watched heelers, catahoula's, border collies, austrailian sheps and others. Most dogs want to hamstring a horse or cow. The border collies I watched were with goats and it was pretty darn awesome! Two or three of them working off hand signals. The particular blue heeler I referred to I WISHED my horse would have kicked her brains slap out!!! She belonged to neighbors and everytime we went riding she was nippin my horses ankles. Everytime my horse tried to take a shot at her that fat lil heifer would drop down like a snake on the ground and keep out of the blow's way.
> 
> I don't want my dog kicked period! I had a little mutt dog and she was awesome at herding the horses and getting a colicky horse up but the day she got kicked in the head upset me to no end. She was white and her little head was blood soaked. All she was trying to do was help me. I'd rather do all the work myself than see my dog hurt. And believe me, I've got a couple of horses that should have been donkey's when it comes to dogs.
> LOL we had a neighborhood jenny that kept getting out. I'd put my rott and GSD (at that time) on her to get her out of my yard. After the first "round" with her the next time I opened the door and put them on her and the rott took off like a firecracker, he saw it was her and he skidded brakes and ran back home!!! LOL it was so funny...


Hahaha thats great...

For every color of cow, there is a APBT  stock dogs disappear among the herd, thus underlining besides their attitude that the APBT is the true bulldog.
Hooch only had to bite bulls; the cows, sheep, goats, and horses just moved without testing him, I believe the APBT presence and energy reserved confidence says it all... Only the most pugnacious of animals are going to challenge the bulldog aka APBT. I have always utilized them as stock dogs and hunting dogs, raise an APBT as a stock dog, go the competition route, APBTs accel over all other dogs at everything..


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