# Incident with Athena tonight.



## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This has been a rough week!!!

First, for those that don't know, Athena is my 12 week old Bully. Well, wife was getting a shower and I had stepped in to the bathroom for a second. Wife asked my son, 7, to make sure she didn't go under the bed (yeah, I know. DUMB!). About a minute later we hear a scream and then my son crying. Athena had went to go under the bed and my son grabber her by the hips to pull her out. Athena reached back and got him in the face. She got him pretty good but no stitches are needed. Washed it out real good. poured some hydrogen peroxide on it, and put some Neosporin on it with a band aid. Freaked my son out more than anything and those puppy teeth are sharp!!!

I already know whose fault it is and it's not my son OR Athena. It was myself and my wife for leaving them alone!!! I just wanted to post to reiterate how important it is to NOT LEAVE YOUNG KIDS ALONE WITH THE DOGS!!! It was only for a minute or so but it was a wake up call for my wife and I. If anything, maybe our mistake will help someone else not to make the same one. I know we sure won't!


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## AmberS (Aug 22, 2010)

I would venture to say that there are bigger issues going on if Athena feels the need to be hiding under the bed. 

I am glad your son is ok, but even an unexperienced dog owner, you posts have me worried.


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Is this the same dog that growled and barked at your son the other night? These are big red flags for such a young dog... I would reconsider owning such a dog.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

AmberS said:


> I would venture to say that there are bigger issues going on if Athena feels the need to be hiding under the bed.
> 
> I am glad your son is ok, but even an unexperienced dog owner, you posts have me worried.


She wasn't hiding under the bed. She likes to go under there to look for things to chew on and her and Duke go under there to play when they can escape under there together. We have been keeping the bedroom door shut so they don't go under there until we can find something to block underneath the bed. It was a failure on my part.

I'm not worried about it, but I appreciate the concern. I've had plenty of dogs over the years and when the pups are young they just don't know any better. Plus, it's very possible my son hurt her when he grabbed her. And that's my point. I don't know because I wasn't there.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Shes Got Heart said:


> Is this the same dog that growled and barked at your son the other night? These are big red flags for such a young dog... I would reconsider owning such a dog.


OK, again, I do appreciate the concern. But when the barking happened, it was also set off by the other dogs barking. It wasn't just Athena. I had a feeling it might head down this path when I posted but wanted to post anyways in the event someone else might learn from my mistake. I read all the time here that NO dog, no matter the breed, should be left alone with children. This was my fault. Plain and simple. You mean to tell me no one here has ever been bit from a puppy if the pup got frustrated, scared, hurt etc??? I find that hard to believe. Sure, my posts may sound like an alarm, but I really don't believe so. Puppy teeth are sharp and it doesn't take much for them to cut. Not to mention I don't even know if the bite happened because of aggression or not, because I wasn't there. That's the point for me sharing, but like I said, I do appreciate the concern.


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## jayandlacy (Sep 21, 2009)

Rough week.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

wild_deuce03 said:


> OK, again, I do appreciate the concern. But when the barking happened, it was also set off by the other dogs barking. It wasn't just Athena. I had a feeling it might head down this path when I posted but wanted to post anyways in the event someone else might learn from my mistake. I read all the time here that NO dog, no matter the breed, should be left alone with children. This was my fault. Plain and simple. You mean to tell me no one here has ever been bit from a puppy if the pup got frustrated, scared, hurt etc??? I find that hard to believe. Sure, my posts may sound like an alarm, but I really don't believe so. Puppy teeth are sharp and it doesn't take much for them to cut. Not to mention I don't even know if the bite happened because of aggression or not, because I wasn't there. That's the point for me sharing, but like I said, I do appreciate the concern.


Not one of my dogs has ever bitten, no matter how far they were pushed. The vet put a catheter in Thrall to get a sterile urine sample and he licked the vet as he inserted it. Lady had an excruciating leg injury at 5 months old, and never bit myself, family, or the vet staff who worked on her, broken bones and torn ligaments hurt a lot more than pulling a pup by the hips. When Lady died, my husband had his hand down her throat trying to remove the obstruction, and she never once bit down, no matter how distressed she got. My suggestion would be to seek professional help before this escalates. Puppies mouth people and objects, but not in retaliation for anything, they do it because their teeth and gums hurt. A facial bite to your child is definite cause for concern, and if you don't deal with it instead of making excuses, you will have problems later. You don't have to rehome the dog or put it down, but your methods aren't working if this has escalated from barking to biting. Please don't ruin your child's view of dogs and the breed.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

jayandlacy said:


> Rough week.


Yeah, but it's just gotta bet better, right?!

I do understand the concerns, but I think if people take into account the entire situation, it's not as bad as it appears. Heck, if I got rid of a dog, adult or pup, anytime I got nipped I'd never have a dog. My pup Cleveland got his leg caught in his crate when he was a pup. I went to get him out and he bit the heck out of my thumb. Obviously he was scared. Should I have gotten rid of him? No way! Or the time I tripped and fell on Spike and she nipped me. Get rid of her? Again, no way. If it was an "attack", then I'd feel different. But that's not what this was. Shoot, every pup I've ever had his bit my nose in the process of licking my face, and at times they've drawn blood.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

wild_deuce03 said:


> Heck, if I got rid of a dog, adult or pup, anytime I got nipped I'd never have a dog.


That is very sad as for me in 12 years of dogs and MANY rescues I have yet to ever have a dog nip or bite, even when grabbed or startled.

I agree with most of what everyone is saying and it really seems you don't think of this as serious yet it is. Especially within the bully/pitbull breed dogs.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

FloorCandy said:


> Not one of my dogs has ever bitten, no matter how far they were pushed. The vet put a catheter in Thrall to get a sterile urine sample and he licked the vet as he inserted it. Lady had an excruciating leg injury at 5 months old, and never bit myself, family, or the vet staff who worked on her, broken bones and torn ligaments hurt a lot more than pulling a pup by the hips. When Lady died, my husband had his hand down her throat trying to remove the obstruction, and she never once bit down, no matter how distressed she got. My suggestion would be to seek professional help before this escalates. Puppies mouth people and objects, but not in retaliation for anything, they do it because their teeth and gums hurt. A facial bite to your child is definite cause for concern, and if you don't deal with it instead of making excuses, you will have problems later. You don't have to rehome the dog or put it down, but your methods aren't working if this has escalated from barking to biting. Please don't ruin your child's view of dogs and the breed.


Again, about the barking, you have to look at the entire situation. It was preceded by the other dogs barking and then Athena joining in until they all realized who it was.

I don't know. Maybe my luck with dogs hasn't been as good as yours or, as I already know, I need to learn more. None of my other dogs has ever bit out of anger.

I can see how it sounds like I'm making excuses, but I'm not. Really, I'm not. I'm not blind to the fact that it could be cause for concern. It may not be the popular answer but I don't think it is right now, and I am looking into training with something other than Petsmart.

And trust me, my kids will always come before my dogs.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

american_pit13 said:


> That is very sad as for me in 12 years of dogs and MANY rescues I have yet to ever have a dog nip or bite, even when grabbed or startled.
> 
> I agree with most of what everyone is saying and it really seems you don't think of this a serious yet it is. Especially within the bully/pitbull breed dogs.


OK, then what is the recommendation on what to do??? My issue is I don't know exactly what happened because I WASN'T THERE. That's my whole point about this. You mean to tell me NO ONE here has ever had a pup nip at their face while playing? Not saying that it's right and I don't even know if that's the case, but the fact is I couldn't correct anything because I wasn't there when it happened. Again, that's why I wanted to post.


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## AmberS (Aug 22, 2010)

wild_deuce03 said:


> OK, then what is the recommendation on what to do??? My issue is I don't know exactly what happened because I WASN'T THERE. That's my whole point about this. You mean to tell me NO ONE here has ever had a pup nip at their face while playing? Not saying that it's right and I don't even know if that's the case, but the fact is I couldn't correct anything because I wasn't there when it happened. Again, that's why I wanted to post.


exactly. you werent there. so how can you say it wasnt an attack?

i think the recomendation was to seek professional help with the dog. get him evaluated. and go from there.

roxy is a big play biter. we are working hard on redirecting her bites appropriately. she also likes to start with kisses, and move to chomping down on you. thats one thing. but she has never once turned to nip at my kids (although she is also attached to me if she is not in her kennel via leash). my youngest is visually impaired, and has tripped over roxy more than once. rox has been startled, and yelped...but never went after her.

again, i am no authority. but i have done some considerable research this past week, and from what you keep posting, it sounds like athena is being left to her own devices a little too often. if she is able to potty in the house without anyone noticing in time for a correction...and haivng the oppurtunity to bite your child in the face without any adult seeing what played out...she is spending too much time alone and unsupervised.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

thats absolutely THE WORST REGION TO GRAB A DOG!
your son should be taught that.not A big deal as far as the puppy reaction as far as I feel.it was normal kid stuff,knee jerk dog reaction.
you've got your hands full everyone is in the hairs edge of the razor this week.
dull the edge,dole out the doggie lessons,for everyone,develop A more sequestered regimen.like you've said,be diligent with the inteactin.at some point they're gonna both grow out of this.just do what you can to make them the commando and his buddy.at some point he's gonna have A chore,or responsibilty to the dog thats not going to necessarily involve you.
females go quickly to the maternal nuturing role.
I brought home A 13 month old dog that has been abused,and was snappy.she was on the edge of being put down.when she came into the home she went straight to him,in about 9 mos. my son and her were inseperable.and for the next 14 years never left his side.


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

I think this pup probably has major fear issues and is acting out of fear. She may never be good with kids. If it were me, and I was in the same situation the dog would be gone. Plain and simple my kid comes first over any dog.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

AmberS said:


> exactly. you werent there. so how can you say it wasnt an attack?


You're right. I can't, and no one can say it was.



> i think the recomendation was to seek professional help with the dog. get him evaluated. and go from there.


No issues with that and it's something I was already looking into already.



> roxy is a big play biter. we are working hard on redirecting her bites appropriately. she also likes to start with kisses, and move to chomping down on you. thats one thing. but she has never once turned to nip at my kids (although she is also attached to me if she is not in her kennel via leash). my youngest is visually impaired, and has tripped over roxy more than once. rox has been startled, and yelped...but never went after her.


We do the same thing with Athena. She likes to bite when playing and it's always redirected to a toy. My son has also tripped over her and she's never nipped at him either. That's why I'm mad at myself for not being there because I don't know how it went down.



> again, i am no authority. but i have done some considerable research this past week, and from what you keep posting, it sounds like athena is being left to her own devices a little too often. if she is able to potty in the house without anyone noticing in time for a correction...and haivng the oppurtunity to bite your child in the face without any adult seeing what played out...she is spending too much time alone and unsupervised.


9/10 we are catching her in the act. She just isn't associating the correction and that she needs to go outside. She did do better today.

The incident tonight was the first time my son was ever alone with her. That's why I'm kicking myself for not being there.


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

When a pup/dog or any animal goes after a face, it's a big deal. I had to put my lab down after we were playing and he went after my arm. Never broke skin but I guarantee the next time he woulda. I also work in rescue and have only been bit once in four years and the dog was in pain. Completely my fault. And of all the dogs I've handled, hundreds not one has gone at my face.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

william williamson said:


> thats absolutely THE WORST REGION TO GRAB A DOG!
> your son should be taught that.not A big deal as far as the puppy reaction as far as I feel.it was normal kid stuff,knee jerk dog reaction.
> you've got your hands full everyone is in the hairs edge of the razor this week.
> dull the edge,dole out the doggie lessons,for everyone,develop A more sequestered regimen.like you've said,be diligent with the inteactin.at some point they're gonna both grow out of this.just do what you can to make them the commando and his buddy.at some point he's gonna have A chore,or responsibilty to the dog thats not going to necessarily involve you.
> ...


Thank you! That's exactly how I feel! I've already told him not to grab her or any of the dogs there. I don't think it was that Athena went for his face on purpose. But going for what was closest.



Shes Got Heart said:


> I think this pup probably has major fear issues and is acting out of fear. She may never be good with kids. If it were me, and I was in the same situation the dog would be gone. Plain and simple my kid comes first over any dog.


Thanks for your opinion. It is appreciated even if I don't agree.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

teasha said:


> When a pup/dog or any animal goes after a face, it's a big deal. I had to put my lab down after we were playing and he went after my arm. Never broke skin but I guarantee the next time he woulda. I also work in rescue and have only been bit once in four years and the dog was in pain. Completely my fault. And of all the dogs I've handled, hundreds not one has gone at my face.


You've never had a puppy nip you in the face at all??? Going from licking to nipping just because?


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

wild_deuce03 said:


> You've never had a puppy nip you in the face at all??? Going from licking to nipping just because?


Nope never. But I have had a cat attack my face, ended up with two black eyes. Never had a pup or dog attack my face and to me it is a big deal. My face is important to me lol. You only get one.

The pit in my avatar was filled with quills and they were pulled at vet office . His jaw was infected, had quills under the skin. Fostered him and as quills came to the surface I pulled quills daily. Inside his mouth, toes, jaw, cheek, etc. Pushed puss out of his lower jaw 2 times a day and hot packed it. As you can imagine this was very painful. Never once did he bite me.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

teasha said:


> Nope never. But I have had a cat attack my face, ended up with two black eyes. Never had a pup or dog attack my face and to me it is a big deal. My face is important to me lol. You only get one.
> 
> The pit in my avatar was filled with quills and they were pulled at vet office . His jaw was infected, had quills under the skin. Fostered him and as quills came to the surface I pulled quills daily. Inside his mouth, toes, jaw, cheek, etc. Pushed puss out of his lower jaw 2 times a day and hot packed it. As you can imagine this was very painful. Never once did he bite me.


Cats are vicious!!! I hated dealing with feral cats at the clinic.

It may sound like I'm not concerned about the bite, but that's not the case. I am concerned about it, just not worried.


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## megz (Jul 25, 2008)

okay, i didn't read the last couple posts because i feel it unfair for you to be berrated and then have to continually explain yourself, which you did in your original post... so my "two cents"...

you took full acceptance of leaving your young child along with a dog, puppy or not. well, good for you, it sucks that it had to come to some owwies so that you remembered this all important rule, but you took responsibility for it. 
while i take much advice from many people on this forum as well as others, i think this whole issue of your pup biting and barking is a sign that your dog needs to be gone and could be a danger is, well, silly. and i speak from experiance on this. when i took in Nytro, he was a holy terror. he would bite me, my husband, all of my kids and anybody who he felt was threatening him. and heck yes, puppy teeth do damage!! a year and a half later...Nytro has never attacked a person and his bitting issues stopped within a few weeks of us owning him.

yes you should totally teach your pup not to bite, no matter what, but you should also be sure to teach your son that when a dog is in a confined space they will get upset, especially if you yank on them....oh and please, please teach your son NOW that you never yank on, hang on, or grab at a dog, period!! so many kids get so comfortable with thier dogs at home that they forget that not every dog is like thiers.

get on with that puppers training and he'll be fine. then get on top of your kids animal smarts training and you will be more than set!!!


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

wild_deuce03 said:


> Cats are vicious!!! I hated dealing with feral cats at the clinic.
> 
> It may sound like I'm not concerned about the bite, but that's not the case. I am concerned about it, just not worried.


Lol funny thing is it wasn't feral! It was my moms cat. I love cats but ferals are hard they are fast and infection comes fast. Anyways my moms cat is a calico and alot of calicos are sassy to start with, but hers was bottle fed AND not disciplined or socialized properly.

Anyways good luck with your puppy


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

It depends on the situation and with such a young puppy the baby probably grabbed the pup really hard and the pup whipped around. Doesn't mean there is something wrong with the pup, just a good example of what happened when you are to supervise. My puppies would chew up a baby with baby teeth if we were not there to watch them. Not in an aggressive manner but just being puppies.
Now as for the other thread with the pup barking the kids that is another story but again you have to see it to know if it is really a temperament issue or just being a puppy.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

wild deuce, I'm going to send you some rep for sticking your hand up and saying it was your fault. However, I'll have to agree with others on here when I say that it doesn't seem like your methods are working. 

Personally, I wouldn't have so many dogs because you don't get time to work one on one with each of them, which puppies need. I'm not suggesting for a minute that you get rid of any of them but I think you may need to step up the general training levels with them especially young Athena.

Good luck!


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

megz said:


> okay, i didn't read the last couple posts because i feel it unfair for you to be berrated and then have to continually explain yourself, which you did in your original post... so my "two cents"...
> 
> you took full acceptance of leaving your young child along with a dog, puppy or not. well, good for you, it sucks that it had to come to some owwies so that you remembered this all important rule, but you took responsibility for it.
> while i take much advice from many people on this forum as well as others, i think this whole issue of your pup biting and barking is a sign that your dog needs to be gone and could be a danger is, well, silly. and i speak from experiance on this. when i took in Nytro, he was a holy terror. he would bite me, my husband, all of my kids and anybody who he felt was threatening him. and heck yes, puppy teeth do damage!! a year and a half later...Nytro has never attacked a person and his bitting issues stopped within a few weeks of us owning him.
> ...





performanceknls said:


> It depends on the situation and with such a young puppy the baby probably grabbed the pup really hard and the pup whipped around. Doesn't mean there is something wrong with the pup, just a good example of what happened when you are to supervise. My puppies would chew up a baby with baby teeth if we were not there to watch them. Not in an aggressive manner but just being puppies.


:clap: Thank you both!!!!!



> Now as for the other thread with the pup barking the kids that is another story but again you have to see it to know if it is really a temperament issue or just being a puppy.


I do understand what you are saying, but you really had to see the situation. The other dogs barked first (not sure if I left that out) and Athena jumped up and joined in with her eyes half shut.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

aus_staffy said:


> wild deuce, I'm going to send you some rep for sticking your hand up and saying it was your fault. However, I'll have to agree with others on here when I say that it doesn't seem like your methods are working.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't have so many dogs because you don't get time to work one on one with each of them, which puppies need. I'm not suggesting for a minute that you get rid of any of them but I think you may need to step up the general training levels with them especially young Athena.
> 
> Good luck!


Oh, I agree completely!!! And it's something that we have been addressing and are taking serious. My pack isn't out of control, but the control I want/need isn't quite there.


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

Agree with megz on this one. Above all else teach your child respect. Not all dogs are alike and not all dogs especially pups will tolerate pain without a reaction. I'm sure the child got it in the face because he was more than likely on his belly or bent over dragging her. He did what mom said and the puppy said ouch, back at ya......no biggie to me either. But I do think you just learned a part of your pups personality. She's not a lay down and take it kinda dog. Remember that as she grows. If I put down every dog I've had for being what some here called aggressive I'd have put down MOST of them I've owned. I know, I have one right now that was on the way to be PTS for biting at children. I took him in when my then three yr. old grandson was living with me. He bit my son, and my daughter (and this is about a 90 pound dog) within the first two months. I've now had him almost three years. NOW, I trust him to the utmost with my grandson, and he is one of the best mannered dogs I've ever had the honor of owning.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

It is certainly a touchy issue, but in this case you have two youngins (Andy Griffith Show), a child and a puppy still learning what is right and wrong. Both will be taught and life will proceed. If it gets out of hand, I'm sure you will all be more aware and take the necessary steps. Poopy happens and, usually, that is how we learn Rough week, but don't let it get you down


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## coppermare (Jun 25, 2010)

I wanted to add on this post a pet peeve of mine. Don't get me wrong, I love children and love them above a dog. But have you ever noticed it's probably mostly children that get bit? I blame it on the parents. Children can be mean and very annoying. If you have children you know that. I know my grandson (God love em) loves to play with Gage, but I am constantly getting on to him for being mean to the puppy. He doesn't think it's mean, he's a five year old ALL BOY and both tend to get rougher and rougher till one gets hurt. I watched a dog of mine on time pushed beyond the limits I'd have put up with. A friend of mine's little boy kept trying to straddle him while he was laying down. The dog got up and moved three times with the toddler still right behind him. The mother never saying a word. Even laughing at one point. The fourth time the dog growled at the child. Now, if he'd have bitten the child what would the press have reported???
Why is it that ponies are usually mean? Because children own them.


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

coppermare said:


> I wanted to add on this post a pet peeve of mine. Don't get me wrong, I love children and love them above a dog. But have you ever noticed it's probably mostly children that get bit? I blame it on the parents. Children can be mean and very annoying. If you have children you know that. I know my grandson (God love em) loves to play with Gage, but I am constantly getting on to him for being mean to the puppy. He doesn't think it's mean, he's a five year old ALL BOY and both tend to get rougher and rougher till one gets hurt. I watched a dog of mine on time pushed beyond the limits I'd have put up with. A friend of mine's little boy kept trying to straddle him while he was laying down. The dog got up and moved three times with the toddler still right behind him. The mother never saying a word. Even laughing at one point. The fourth time the dog growled at the child. Now, if he'd have bitten the child what would the press have reported???
> Why is it that ponies are usually mean? Because children own them.


I have to agree. When my kids were younger I was always after them. Even now sometimes I have to get after them. Unfortunatley another piece that gets people/kids bit is being unable to read subtle signs. I think that is a big part of it. So they do need to be taught, my kids are still working on this. And they've been around animals there whole lives. That's probably why more kids are bit than adults is they are relentless and do not read those cues.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Well, this is a 12 weeks old puppy, not a dog, so I don't think agression is the issue but that bite inhibition paired with her having been startled is the cause here. The OP has already taken responsibility for having left the two alone together. Comparing grown dogs to puppies is just silly. Of course puppies bite, and I have seen numerous puppies lunge for faces at young ages because they simply didn't know better.

Wild_duece, I think you just need to put in that extra amount of effort in with Athena to teach her proper puppy etiquitte. I am going to say, be concerned, but don't be alarmed, and take a little bit more time to train her than you have your other dogs because you want and *need* her to become an excellent example and ambassador for the pit bull/bully breeds.


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

megz said:


> okay, i didn't read the last couple posts because i feel it unfair for you to be berrated and then have to continually explain yourself, which you did in your original post... so my "two cents"...
> 
> *you took full acceptance of leaving your young child along with a dog, puppy or not. well, good for you, it sucks that it had to come to some owwies so that you remembered this all important rule, but you took responsibility for it. *
> while i take much advice from many people on this forum as well as others, i think this whole issue of your pup biting and barking is a sign that your dog needs to be gone and could be a danger is, well, silly. and i speak from experiance on this. when i took in Nytro, he was a holy terror. he would bite me, my husband, all of my kids and anybody who he felt was threatening him. and heck yes, puppy teeth do damage!! a year and a half later...Nytro has never attacked a person and his bitting issues stopped within a few weeks of us owning him.
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost: Great post!


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

Carriana said:


> Well, this is a 12 weeks old puppy, not a dog, so I don't think agression is the issue but that bite inhibition paired with her having been startled is the cause here. The OP has already taken responsibility for having left the two alone together. Comparing grown dogs to puppies is just silly. Of course puppies bite, and I have seen numerous puppies lunge for faces at young ages because they simply didn't know better.
> 
> Wild_duece, I think you just need to put in that extra amount of effort in with Athena to teach her proper puppy etiquitte. I am going to say, be concerned, but don't be alarmed, and take a little bit more time to train her than you have your other dogs because you want and *need* her to become an excellent example and ambassador for the pit bull/bully breeds.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost: Another great post!!


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

teasha said:


> Lol funny thing is it wasn't feral! It was my moms cat. I love cats but ferals are hard they are fast and infection comes fast. Anyways my moms cat is a calico and alot of calicos are sassy to start with, but hers was bottle fed AND not disciplined or socialized properly.
> 
> Anyways good luck with your puppy


Sorry Teasha but your post made me laugh. :roll::roll:
How in the world do you discipline a cat? I'm actually not being sarcastic just wondering.... I know Mr Mittens (my cat) would look at me say "pfft" and try to scratch me for even thinking about disciplining him.
:snap:<---Mr. Mittens


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Sorry Teasha but your post made me laugh. :roll::roll:
> How in the world do you discipline a cat? I'm actually not being sarcastic just wondering.... I know Mr Mittens (my cat) would look at me say "pfft" and try to scratch me for even thinking about disciplining him.
> :snap:<---Mr. Mittens


ok so this may sound mean but i know how to make non feral cats nice!!!!!

ready

KEEP THEM HUNGRY!!!!

i see most people free feed cats so they don't HAVE to be nice to you because they already have everything they need, food water bathroom. why do thay need to be nice to you, you are simply to do your job and provide! you are servant.

but if the cat get say 1/2 a cup of there crunchies once a day and only give them 10min to eat like a dog and the cat is ideal weight then they are hungry and will be your BEST BEST BEST friend because you provide the food and they will always be trying to suduce you out of more by being sweet and cuddely.

all of my cats have been very sweet with everyone they meet and i think they do enjoy the touch of people but most of it is them trying to sweet talk you into feeding them lol. when my last cat lived with my mom she was a... well a cat only coming when SHE wanted on her time, but now with me she is all over everybody.

then just add in a little dicepline and shoot my cats come when called (most of the time lol there still cats after all) and my one eyed cat sits on command for treats :roll:


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

now on occations you get them mean ones that want to attack you for food, (been there done that) and i norm pick them up why there scruff give a little shake tell them to watch themselves then put them back down, then repeat as nessisary untill they stop that crap


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I have a 7 month old pup and loki who is almost 2 went through a horrible teething issue as a pup but his nipping never went past a few months and it was never mean. My young kids 2 and 3 years can do anything to loki without him even blinkin at them. If either of my dogs even growled at the kids there would be a issue let alone bite or bark at them. I would seriously look into having your dog tested there may be some underlying issue you dont know about if he grabbed her by her hips have them checked out maybe there is pain? 
Glad you see the point of not leaving kids and dogs unsuppervised together im sure your taking the right steps now to make sure that isnt happening again. How is your son doing now? I know years ago I got bit on the hand by a chow wheni was out feeding the chickens she decided she wanted the food. Im a nurse and know how to clean wounds and thoroughly washed it out unfortunately it got infected a week later dog bites are so dirty despite what people think about them having clean mouths. my hand was the size of a softball and had to do Iv treatments to fight the infection. so please keep a good eye on it , sounds like it wasnt that deep though hopefully.
good luck with the pup and kids


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

Aireal said:


> now on occations you get them mean ones that want to attack you for food, (been there done that) and i norm pick them up why there scruff give a little shake tell them to watch themselves then put them back down, then repeat as nessisary untill they stop that crap


LMAO :rofl:


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

I would definitely take the puppy in to have her hips checked out. Maybe she has hip dysplasia? After that I would have a professional trainer work with me and the puppy. To show how to teach bite inhibition and proper manners.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

teasha said:


> I have to agree. When my kids were younger I was always after them. Even now sometimes I have to get after them. Unfortunatley another piece that gets people/kids bit is being unable to read subtle signs. I think that is a big part of it. So they do need to be taught, my kids are still working on this. And they've been around animals there whole lives. That's probably why more kids are bit than adults is they are relentless and do not read those cues.


bingo bango,pits are ALL,from game stock,AT SOME POINT.
I tell folks all the time to make small kids aware of several points with pits.
it's for lack of A better way of making it understandable,A recessive trait.which maybe too it is as it is effectively genetic.
I'm just an old *******,yet I was aware of these points,as Teeasha said,subtle.dead on,subtle is what folks don't tune up to with pits.
they aren't sneaky,they don't bait or back bite for the most part.they look for leads and react to subtle triggers.
I tell folks don't let kids run around on all fours growling playfully with them,keep them from where their food is.they may not be food agressive,yet they may have claimed the turf/region they are fed in.don't let them get real F2F and woof woof at them.be aware of what your dog sees as challenges.
dogs,all have their quirks.pits being game dogs respond to challenge situations,and that little fuzzy spot of genetics that says one day,hey,that just turned me on.and next thing you know the kids screamin,the dog drags the kid to you,tail wagging,knowing that some dark spot said it was ok.
and ultimately the dog thinks it's ok.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Wild duece - Remember I suggested that you watch for a pattern with this pup? This incident is #2. Reacting with her mouth is out of character for a pit bull. How's your dog bred?


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

buzhunter said:


> Wild duece - Remember I suggested that you watch for a pattern with this pup? This incident is #2. Reacting with her mouth is out of character for a pit bull. How's your dog bred?


Agreed. This would be the final straw for me.

If she was my dog and she bit my child, I would beat the snot out of her. If she did it again, she would not live to become another child mauling statistic. Something is is wrong with that dog, in the head. There is NO, and I MEAN NO excuse for that whatsoever.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

She is a 12 week old puppy that was startled by being grabbed on a very sensative part of her body by a child who did not know better. If this was a 6 month old puppy, or a full grown dog I would agree that there is an issue, but she is a very young puppy. 

She needs proper training, period.


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

Carriana said:


> She is a 12 week old puppy that was startled by being grabbed on a very sensative part of her body by a child who did not know better. If this was a 6 month old puppy, or a full grown dog I would agree that there is an issue, but she is a very young puppy.
> 
> She needs proper training, period.


OH! 12 weeks? Sheesh! She's still a dumb baby with no social skills!

She needs socialization and some serious obedience training! And the child could use a little puppy training also. Definitely not a lost cause though. She probably has some serious fear issues however, which CAN become very dangerous.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

GTR said:


> OH! 12 weeks? Sheesh! She's still a dumb baby with no social skills!
> 
> She needs socialization and some serious obedience training! And the child could use a little puppy training also. Definitely not a lost cause though. She probably has some serious fear issues however, which CAN become very dangerous.


Exactly!


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

geez,I thought some media fear mongering was about to take place.


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

william williamson said:


> geez,I thought some media fear mongering was about to take place.


Too many accidents happens because people can't spot a bad seed.

I don't think that is the case here, so much as a lack of socialization and a need for some training.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

GTR said:


> Too many accidents happens because people can't spot a bad seed.
> 
> I don't think that is the case here, so much as a lack of socialization and a need for some training.


yet,this was/is a case of the spotting taking place,and the question being posed,and still their was a little shark in the water reaction.
i'm all for puttin the right dog down,and methodically going through the determination process.
this is one topic I would give enough credence to that I could not respond as some have.
maybe it's because I've started down the other side of the time hill.


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

pitbullmamanatl said:


> Sorry Teasha but your post made me laugh. :roll::roll:
> How in the world do you discipline a cat? I'm actually not being sarcastic just wondering.... I know Mr Mittens (my cat) would look at me say "pfft" and try to scratch me for even thinking about disciplining him.
> :snap:<---Mr. Mittens


It's harder with an older one, but it they do something wrong you can scruff them as mom would and give a little shake and say no! But the scruff method can work with adults too. When working with bottle feeds, especially singletons it is important they get discipline and socialization with other cats/kittens or they can turn out to be snots or just plain mean. ( I hope my moms cat dies before she does,lol. She is the devil in disguise! When she went after my face, she put a claw in my face just right. It started puffing up and I freaked and went to the hospital. By that time one eye turned black and blue... The hospital staff thought I was lying and was beat up. I'm sure if I was, I woulda came up with a much better story!) A spray bottle can be used for jumping on counters and what not. So there is a few things you can do, I know a few more tricks too.



Aireal said:


> ok so this may sound mean but i know how to make non feral cats nice!!!!!
> 
> ready
> 
> ...


This is true and works, they need to learn to depend on you. Another method is feed soft canned food 2x a day, but they need to come to you for it. There are a few ways with feral cats, some are easier to tame than others and some can be so stubborn and never come around.



Aireal said:


> now on occations you get them mean ones that want to attack you for food, (been there done that) and i norm pick them up why there scruff give a little shake tell them to watch themselves then put them back down, then repeat as nessisary untill they stop that crap


This also works, they need to learn boundries as well as a dog


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

For all I know, the pup could be half ankle biter and the dude has no clue what he's calling a pit bull. (no offence intended to Wild duece) That's the case more often than not these days. If the dog's an honest bulldog, I would start to worry. If he's a half breed dog, you gotta consider what's in the woodpile. Fear biting, cur snapping and knee-jerk reactions are apparently acceptable in some breeds. May be that the dog just needs to be properly identified and trained, maybe he needs to just nip it in the bud now. We'll see.


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

GTR said:


> Agreed. This would be the final straw for me.
> 
> If she was my dog and she bit my child, I would beat the snot out of her. If she did it again, she would not live to become another child mauling statistic. Something is is wrong with that dog, in the head. There is NO, and I MEAN NO excuse for that whatsoever.


This really bothers me. I would be angry too if my dog bit my child, but this is a living breathing creature. Beating them will do NO good, it may make you feel better? Not me I would feel horrible if I were to do that. No there is no excuse for biting but there is no excuse for beating an animal either. Just my opinion.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Spare the rod, spoil the child (or dog).


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

oops i thought it said 12 months my bad, loki had a bad teething issue when he was young until about 3-4 months just reinforce good behaviour and correct any bad behaviour immediately and socialize as much as possible im sure you know or you could look into a trainer we had one with loki I swear he was horrible as a pup although he never bit the kids. a pup that young im leaning more to the child was at fault {thus parents} children need to be taught how to treat animals and what is and isnt acceptable hopefully this is a lesson learned for him hard one but lesson learned non the less. Good on you for admiting you were wrong though and moving on from there most parents would put the blame 100% on the dog.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Nothing further to add


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

This will probably be my last post in this thread. I never thought this would create the outcry it has. All I wanted to do was make a case for not leaving a younger child alone with a dog. Athena is* 12 WEEKS* old!!! She does not know any better, and I am working to correct the issue. The barking incident is something that is being blown out of proportion by some people as well. Good lord. For everyone here that says these dogs aren't man eaters, some of you are sure making it sound like that's what I have. I simply wanted to point out MY mistake. Not quite sure I'll be so willing to do that again! But I do, no matter how irritated I am right now, appreciate the concern. I just really feel there is some strong overreaction going on.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

wild_deuce03 said:


> it's very possible my son hurt her when he grabbed her.


My Pit is a little over a year,he plays with the neighbor kids all the time.

One time one of the kids tried to pick him up,and it hurt him. HOWEVER he made a YIP sound indicating that he had been hurt. He NEVER once turned his head or snapped at her in anyway.

How old is this dog? I'm not sure it's safe to have around your son.
One a pit bull,or dog of any breed bites a kid(unless it's like a tiny tiny pup) it needs to either be PTS or evaluated. JMO


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Again, the puppy is 12 weeks old.


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## Xiahko (Feb 24, 2010)

Ive went back and read all the posts.
I still think the dog needs some heavy training,and now is the time to do it,if you don't want this to happen again.
Your son needs to also learn how to behave around the dog as well. It's all about training. Once the pup knows that this is not ok to do,it should be ok. Was this pup taken away from it's mother at a young age? maybe it doesn't know how hard it's biting either.
But I'd work on it right away.
Hope things work out. I know pups are known for nipping,had a lab puppy who bit a kid in the nose once,nothing hard,just one of those nips. She was immediately reprimanded,and went into intensive training,after that,she never hurt a fly,never once nipped again.


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## aimee235 (Apr 29, 2007)

teasha said:


> It's harder with an older one, but it they do something wrong you can scruff them as mom would and give a little shake and say no! But the scruff method can work with adults too.


I find this method is more likely to rile a dog/puppy up esp. if your dealing with a more dominant personality. This could make the situation worse.


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## teasha (Aug 3, 2010)

aimee235 said:


> I find this method is more likely to rile a dog/puppy up esp. if your dealing with a more dominant personality. This could make the situation worse.


Lol we were talking cats, we got off track


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

wild_deuce03 said:


> This will probably be my last post in this thread. I never thought this would create the outcry it has. All I wanted to do was make a case for not leaving a younger child alone with a dog. Athena is* 12 WEEKS* old!!! She does not know any better, and I am working to correct the issue. The barking incident is something that is being blown out of proportion by some people as well. Good lord. For everyone here that says these dogs aren't man eaters, some of you are sure making it sound like that's what I have. I simply wanted to point out MY mistake. Not quite sure I'll be so willing to do that again! But I do, no matter how irritated I am right now, appreciate the concern. I just really feel there is some strong overreaction going on.


That sucks. I was kinda looking forward to helping you out since you seem to have an open mind and really receptive to advice. (very rare around here) Any dog can be born with a screw loose. If you do in fact have a "potential" man-eater, now would be the time to draw that conclusion. It does happen.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

buzhunter said:


> That sucks. I was kinda looking forward to helping you out since you seem to have an open mind and really receptive to advice. (very rare around here) Any dog can be born with a screw loose. If you do in fact have a "potential" man-eater, now would be the time to draw that conclusion. It does happen.


I'm totally open to advice. Just got a little turned off the way I got blasted that I basically had a "man eater" on my hands when I don't think people were looking objectionably at the situation. People heard, "Bully bite to kids face," so it must be a man eater. No different than the general public. I'm well aware of the fact that this type of behavior isn't acceptable, and I will take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again, and am MORE than willing to hear input on bite inhibition etc.....I'm not a POS dog owner or parent and do take this kind of thing seriously!


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

teasha said:


> This really bothers me. I would be angry too if my dog bit my child, but this is a living breathing creature. Beating them will do NO good, it may make you feel better? Not me I would feel horrible if I were to do that. No there is no excuse for biting but there is no excuse for beating an animal either. Just my opinion.


I always tell this to people who coddle their dogs: do you know how an alpha wolf punishes disobedient pack members? Corporal punishment is part of the dog's language, and there are levels of punishment. If a pack member attacks the pup of the alpha female, she will probably kill the offending wolf. I believe very strongly in keeping the pack as the dogs expect you to. Dogs use body language and physical contact to communicate.

Yes. Whipping a dog does do good. I really have no patience for people who treat their animals like people, it disrupts the pack structure. My dogs rarely need a spanking, because they know that I mean business, and disobedience will not go unpunished. Usually a verbal scolding (the dog equivalent of a snarl/snap) does the trick. They have enough respect of me to know what comes next if they don't mind.

I am the law, and my dogs mind. A lot of love, and discipline as needed = a happy pack.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

wild_deuce03 said:


> I'm totally open to advice. Just got a little turned off the way I got blasted that I basically had a "man eater" on my hands when I don't think people were looking objectionably at the situation. People heard, "Bully bite to kids face," so it must be a man eater. No different than the general public. I'm well aware of the fact that this type of behavior isn't acceptable, and I will take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again, and am MORE than willing to hear input on bite inhibition etc.....I'm not a POS dog owner or parent and do take this kind of thing seriously!


I don't think you are reading what people are saying. You are just getting defensive over your dog.

One person said to put the dog down OR have it evaluated. Several said if it was THEIR dog it would be put down, but I didn't see anyone making it out to be such a man biter and stressing the issue of having it put to sleep. Many people are stressing the issue of having the dog evaluated which you seem to be ignoring and again making excuses of what happened and why the dog bit your son even thought you yourself said you where not there. So how do you know what happened?

This is twice your dog has shown temperament issues. No one here has seen the dog so the best we can offer is to have the dog evaluated.

THIS IS NOT NORMAL FOR THIS BREED.

They are not snappy
They are not nippy 
They do not tend to snap in the face even when caused pain

Yes it is a puppy so it every well could just need some proper socialization with kids and proper training however I don't think she will get that from a house so full of dogs.

Instead of making excuses of why she ISN'T a possible bad seed why not have her evaluated by a professional and actually find out if she has temperament issues.


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## FloorCandy (Feb 19, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> I don't think you are reading what people are saying. You are just getting defensive over your dog.
> 
> One person said to put the dog down OR have it evaluated. Several said if it was THEIR dog it would be put down, but I didn't see anyone making it out to be such a man biter and stressing the issue of having it put to sleep. Many people are stressing the issue of having the dog evaluated which you seem to be ignoring and again making excuses of what happened and why the dog bit your son even thought you yourself said you where not there. So how do you know what happened?
> 
> ...


:goodpost:

Since you come on here asking about behavior, it's obvious you need an experienced person to evaluate your pup and know for sure. At 12 weeks you can still work with behavior problems, but if you continue to make excuses, and put things off for another month or two it will be too late. If your dog exhibits the same behavior in a month, you child will probably need stitches, the doctor will report the incident, and your dog will be deemed dangerous.

I firmly believe that this dog needs to be evaluated, and put on a structured training schedule in order to modify the behavior. You can teach kids to respect dogs, but accidents happen, what happens if your child trips and falls on this dog when it's an adult? I see a lot of "my fault my fault my fault", and that's great to admit fault, but it doesn't make the bite go away and there will be times in the next 15 years of your dog's and child's life where they will be alone, you have to shower, go to the bathroom, etc, no matter how responsible a child or adult is, unexpected things happen. Even if you put up gates, kids open gates, kids open crates.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

It will be alright wild duece, you've obviously gotten some advice from everyone on here, and then some!!! From evaluating your pup to beating it, wow. Be observant and discipline when needed. You seem fairly level headed and I'm sure that you won't let the pup's or child's behavior get beyond your control. This could be a serious issue with your pup, but I don't think it is at that point yet. This thread has gotten out of hand IMO.


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## GTR (Mar 5, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> It will be alright wild duece, you've obviously gotten some advice from everyone on here, and then some!!! From evaluating your pup to beating it, wow. Be observant and discipline when needed. You seem fairly level headed and I'm sure that you won't let the pup's or child's behavior get beyond your control. This could be a serious issue with your pup, but I don't think it is at that point yet. This thread has gotten out of hand IMO.


I think it will be A.O.K. Duece! She is just young and sounds like she is a little spooky.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Saint Francis said:


> This could be a serious issue with your pup, but I don't think it is at that point yet. .


So why let it get to that point? Why wait for a seriously bad event to happen rather then have the dog looked at now before it gets to that point?????:hammer:


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

AANNDD,you got some suggestions and personal experiences that even paralelled logic.
now you just should weed through it.
and often I don't blame folks for totin A bat to A forum board.:hammer:


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

wild_deuce03 said:


> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This has been a rough week!!!
> 
> First, for those that don't know, Athena is my 12 week old Bully. Well, wife was getting a shower and I had stepped in to the bathroom for a second. Wife asked my son, 7, to make sure she didn't go under the bed (yeah, I know. DUMB!). About a minute later we hear a scream and then my son crying. Athena had went to go under the bed and my son grabber her by the hips to pull her out. Athena reached back and got him in the face. She got him pretty good but no stitches are needed. Washed it out real good. poured some hydrogen peroxide on it, and put some Neosporin on it with a band aid. Freaked my son out more than anything and those puppy teeth are sharp!!!
> 
> I already know whose fault it is and it's not my son OR Athena. It was myself and my wife for leaving them alone!!! I just wanted to post to reiterate how important it is to NOT LEAVE YOUNG KIDS ALONE WITH THE DOGS!!! It was only for a minute or so but it was a wake up call for my wife and I. If anything, maybe our mistake will help someone else not to make the same one. I know we sure won't!


Ok, Ryan. I haven't read this thread all the way through, but I know you've gotten some good responses, and some that you didn't too much care for. I'll just say this, judging by what you posted (quoted above), if grabbing Athena by the hips caused her to react this way, maybe you should not only have a behaviourist evaluate her, but also have her checked for hip dysplasia! But, as FC said, these bully breeds have a high tolerance for pain, and no matter how much pain they're in, they should not be snapping at a child.

It's wonderful that you're taking responsibility for your son and Athena being alone together, but still, she should not be acting this way towards him. You need to correct the behavior, put her on a good steady routine, and have her evaluated before something more serious happens here. The last thing we want to read is an update from you that Athena did more harm and had to be quarantined, or worse, euthanized b/c of her actions. Please take heed to the advice being given. I'm not wishing any ill will on you or your family, and I don't believe anyone else here is either, but you really do need to get this under control before Athena becomes another statistic. Please, I beg you, have her evaluated both medically and mentally, and then make the decision that you feel is right for your family, you, and most importantly, Athena.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

I don't necessarily have a problem with getting the pup evaluated, what ever that means at 12 weeks old, but I just think things happen between children and pups that seems to bring out the worst in each. I mean do we suggest that the child be evaluated also for signs of habitual animal cruelty? I understand that there COULD be a problem, but I think it's a little premature to be getting hysterical about it. I don't know, I guess after being a boy who was bit by dogs, cats, snakes, monitors, tarantulas, parrots, etc. that I know that stuff happens and no animal is perfect. I'm not defending the pup nor condemning it either. I'm sure the OP will do what's appropriate and has alot of food for thought now.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Saint Francis said:


> I don't necessarily have a problem with getting the pup evaluated, what ever that means at 12 weeks old, but I just think things happen between children and pups that seems to bring out the worst in each. I mean do we suggest that the child be evaluated also for signs of habitual animal cruelty? I understand that there COULD be a problem, but I think it's a little premature to be getting hysterical about it. I don't know, I guess after being a boy who was bit by dogs, cats, snakes, monitors, tarantulas, parrots, etc. that I know that stuff happens and no animal is perfect. I'm not defending the pup nor condemning it either. I'm sure the OP will do what's appropriate and has alot of food for thought now.


Oh yeah, I would like to add to the list of things that bit me, my sister Now, she should've been evaluated back in those days LOL!!! And I always got yelled at for returning the favor, go figure.


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

I understand what you're saying Christian... it's just that the pup is showing too many signs not to err on the side of caution. Better to be safe than sorry, right!? Have her evaluated, and find out if she's got temperament issues, health issues, or if this is just normal puppy behavior for her! That's all we're recommending.


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

ThaLadyPit said:


> I understand what you're saying Christian... it's just that the pup is showing too many signs not to err on the side of caution. Better to be safe than sorry, right!? Have her evaluated, and find out if she's got temperament issues, health issues, or if this is just normal puppy behavior for her! That's all we're recommending.


Bev, when you put it that way, I suppose an evaluation wouldn't hurt. I'm guilty of viewing from my point of view only, a single male who wouldn't mind a pup with a little fire in him. Please do not interpret this "fire" for HA, because I'm obviously against that as an acceptable behavior. A family with children is another thing entirely, so no harm in evaluating the pup here. What is or how is an evaluation done on a pup so young, that is something that I would like to have explained to me.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Last time I'm going to say this. The barking incident is being blown WAY out of proportion! ALL of the dogs were startled from there sleep. I simply found it interesting that a pup of her age joined in like she did. Am I defensive. Heck ya I'm getting defensive. For the most part, all I seem to keep hearing is that my pup is bascially a man-eater. I have no issues with getting her evaluated but I just find it odd that her and my son were playing so WELL with each other yesterday and today, yet she is this big, bad man-eater! Does she need some lessons in behavior? Heck ya and I'm working the issue. Does my son need to learn better how to behave with pups/dogs? Heck ya and I am also working that issue.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

wild_deuce03 said:


> Last time I'm going to say this. The barking incident is being blown WAY out of proportion! ALL of the dogs were startled from there sleep. I simply found it interesting that a pup of her age joined in like she did. Am I defensive. Heck ya I'm getting defensive. For the most part, all I seem to keep hearing is that my pup is bascially a man-eater. I have no issues with getting her evaluated but I just find it odd that her and my son were playing so WELL with each other yesterday and today, yet she is this big, bad man-eater! Does she need some lessons in behavior? Heck ya and I'm working the issue. Does my son need to learn better how to behave with pups/dogs? Heck ya and I am also working that issue.


sounds like you have it under control and are taking the right steps to making sure it doesn't happen again, remember this is just a forum and people will voice there options weather there right or not. if the replys are truly upsetting you i would just cease to continue to read them or ask a mod to please close the thread but all in all, the replys MAY help another reader see something about there own dog that may not be as young, and maybe they will take steps to help there own pup.
anyway good luck WD i'm confident it will all work out :hug: the hug was just cause you seemed like you needed it lol


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Aireal said:


> sounds like you have it under control and are taking the right steps to making sure it doesn't happen again, remember this is just a forum and people will voice there options weather there right or not. if the replys are truly upsetting you i would just cease to continue to read them or ask a mod to please close the thread but all in all, the replys MAY help another reader see something about there own dog that may not be as young, and maybe they will take steps to help there own pup.
> anyway good luck WD i'm confident it will all work out :hug: the hug was just cause you seemed like you needed it lol


No matter how irritated I sound, I am appreciative of the advice. Between one of my best friends being killed in Pakistan in February and my best friend, Spike, dying on Monday, it's been a rough 6 months for me. Not looking for sympathy or anyone to ease up. Just stating fact.

I won't ask to close the the thread because I posted this in the hopes that someone else would learn from my mistake.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

Oh, and thanks for the hug! Lol!


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

WOW that was quite the reading. If I were you I would tell your son he is 7yrs old right? To not pull a dog out from under the bed. The second thing I think you need to do is have said child pick up all small things that the pup could chew so she can go under the bed and not get into things she shouldn't.

30yrs of rescue work up to 25 dogs in a house at a time YES I have been bitten. 10yrs of working in a vet hospital Yes I have been bitten. It is normal when you are working with animals to get a reaction that is less than desirable. 

Do I think you have a man -eater heck no you have a pup that most likely get startled and a boy that shouldn't be pulling on the pup in the first place.


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## wild_deuce03 (Aug 14, 2010)

^^^ Hallelujah, hallelujah, halleeeeeeluuuuuujah!!!! Thank you!!! I agree completely!!


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

Saint Francis said:


> Bev, when you put it that way, I suppose an evaluation wouldn't hurt. I'm guilty of viewing from my point of view only, a single male who wouldn't mind a pup with a little fire in him. Please do not interpret this "fire" for HA, because I'm obviously against that as an acceptable behavior. A family with children is another thing entirely, so no harm in evaluating the pup here. What is or how is an evaluation done on a pup so young, that is something that I would like to have explained to me.


*Ok... I understand about wanting a dog with a little, or even a lot of fire.. I'd be looking for the same thing later down the line. Nothing wrong with that. And I understand the difference between being a ball of fire and being HA. As far as the evaluation, the pup would be put through the normal routine as would any adult dog, testing various scenarios and seeing how she responds to those scenarios. Food aggression, Toy aggression, Dog Aggression, Human Aggression, Small animal aggression, all will be tested, and I'm sure much more. Now, I'm not completely sure of what exactly would go into it, but I'm sure Holly, Lisa, Shana or any of the more experienced persons on here could give us all some more information here on this topic. *



wild_deuce03 said:


> Last time I'm going to say this. The barking incident is being blown WAY out of proportion! ALL of the dogs were startled from there sleep. I simply found it interesting that a pup of her age joined in like she did. Am I defensive. Heck ya I'm getting defensive. For the most part, all I seem to keep hearing is that my pup is bascially a man-eater. I have no issues with getting her evaluated but I just find it odd that her and my son were playing so WELL with each other yesterday and today, yet she is this big, bad man-eater! Does she need some lessons in behavior? Heck ya and I'm working the issue. Does my son need to learn better how to behave with pups/dogs? Heck ya and I am also working that issue.


*Ryan, I'm not blowing the barking out of proportion, though it may seem that others are. I understand completely about a pup being startled from sleep and barking until she/he can see clearly. That's not the issue. I am in no way implying that you've got a man-eater on your hands. I understand about you getting a little on the defensive side. That's simply human nature, especially when we hear something that we weren't expecting to hear, or didn't want to hear. I'm glad to read that you're working on the issues with Athena and your son as far as appropriate vs. inappropriate behavior and handling. It would do everyone in the house great justice to enroll in an obedience class and everyone take turns working with Athena (and I don't mean attending a training course at PetSmart or any of the like pet store chains). Make some calls around your local area, see if there's any boarding kennels, vet clinics or grooming salons that can refer you to a good, experienced trainer that has particular experience in the bully breeds. You'd be surprised at the outcome. Once you've completed basic and novice obedience classes with her, then you can move up to more advanced classes, or even test for her CGC (Canine Good Citizen) with the AKC. Of course, I wouldn't go for the CGC until you've got all the kinks worked out and have had her evaluated to ensure there's nothing medically or temperamentally wrong with her.

I just want to say, that nobody here is trying to pick on you or run you off by giving their opinion on your situation. You did post up asking for advice/help, so that's what we're doing. I know some people can type up a response, not proof read, and come off in a manner that seems like they're trying to put you down or make you feel like a failure. Unfortunately, that's just how it is; some people just speak their mind and don't think about the effect it will have on the person asking for opinions/advice. I can honestly say, I use to be one of those. I would just type as fast as my mind could process the thought, and not proof read what I typed, nor think about the detrimental effect it would have on the person(s) reading it. After being on the receiving end of those same types of responses/reactions from others, I've learned to be very careful of what I type, and I proof everything now before hitting submit. Ok.. well, not everything, as I've found some typos from time to time on simple spelling and grammatical errors, but nobody's perfect, right!? Anyways, I just wanted to clarify that for you. I'm not taking up for anybody, nor am I trying to point fingers. Just trying to help you get a better understanding. Now, I hope I've helped you out a bit more, and maybe even made your day a bit simpler to deal with.

My sincerest condolences to you on the loss of your friend and fellow service member, and Spike. We all have tough times fall upon us, and that's understandable. Stress can cause crazy reactions from different people. I know b/c I've been there way too many times. Again, I hope I've been able to make your day a little brighter, and help you to understand things a little better here today. We're all simply offering our input on the situations that you've posted about and asked for advice on. Best of luck on working out the issues with Athena, and your son. Please keep us posted. We're here for the moral support whenever you may need us. Godspeed!*


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## Pitcrew (Jan 19, 2008)

MY MIKADO said:


> WOW that was quite the reading. If I were you I would tell your son he is 7yrs old right? To not pull a dog out from under the bed. The second thing I think you need to do is have said child pick up all small things that the pup could chew so she can go under the bed and not get into things she shouldn't.
> 
> 30yrs of rescue work up to 25 dogs in a house at a time YES I have been bitten. 10yrs of working in a vet hospital Yes I have been bitten. It is normal when you are working with animals to get a reaction that is less than desirable.
> 
> Do I think you have a man -eater heck no you have a pup that most likely get startled and a boy that shouldn't be pulling on the pup in the first place.


Totally what she said.


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## aprilortego (Aug 23, 2010)

MY MIKADO said:


> WOW that was quite the reading. If I were you I would tell your son he is 7yrs old right? To not pull a dog out from under the bed. The second thing I think you need to do is have said child pick up all small things that the pup could chew so she can go under the bed and not get into things she shouldn't.
> 
> 30yrs of rescue work up to 25 dogs in a house at a time YES I have been bitten. 10yrs of working in a vet hospital Yes I have been bitten. It is normal when you are working with animals to get a reaction that is less than desirable.
> 
> Do I think you have a man -eater heck no you have a pup that most likely get startled and a boy that shouldn't be pulling on the pup in the first place.


I so agree with this.:goodpost:

I have been bitten by puppies and grown dogs numerous times and each time was error on my part. APBT and Bullies get such a bad rap and I really don't think that Athena is some monster who wants to eat up your family. I do commend you for stepping up and taking blame in this matter.


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## DemoJunky (Aug 25, 2009)

I dunno? Call me wrong here, I know I'll probably get jumped on. I got Choc when she was about 2 months old and my little girl believes that dogs are all her play-pals. Choc was and still is to some extent an "excited nipper". She tugs on things, hangs on Spring Poles, Flirt Poles, etc. and when she was little my daughter grabbed her from behind and she nipped her in the face, while we were right there! She didn't do it as aggression, but just did what she does, grab things. We have pretty much broken her, but when she's excited she will still occasionally nip at me, my hand as I'm walking by, my chin while I'm loving her. Never in aggression or never hard enough to notice, but when she was a puppy, those sharp teeth would bring blood everytime. I'm saying, you seem like a competent, caring, dog owner and father, so I'm sure you'll keep an eye out for signs. Some people want to take ALL the spirit out of the dog to prove it's docile and not aggressive. I think thats wrong. Tame the negative actions immediately, but don't crush it's spirit. With Choc, the rule is "If you don't want to wrestle a 60lb bear and get slobbered and chewed on, then don't go out and tussle with Choc." My son and I, we LOVE it!:woof:

BTW, thanks for posting this in hopes of helping someone else avoid this!


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

DemoJunky said:


> I dunno? Call me wrong here, I know I'll probably get jumped on. I got Choc when she was about 2 months old and my little girl believes that dogs are all her play-pals. Choc was and still is to some extent an "excited nipper". She tugs on things, hangs on Spring Poles, Flirt Poles, etc. and when she was little my daughter grabbed her from behind and she nipped her in the face, while we were right there! She didn't do it as aggression, but just did what she does, grab things. We have pretty much broken her, but when she's excited she will still occasionally nip at me, my hand as I'm walking by, my chin while I'm loving her. Never in aggression or never hard enough to notice, but when she was a puppy, those sharp teeth would bring blood everytime. I'm saying, you seem like a competent, caring, dog owner and father, so I'm sure you'll keep an eye out for signs. Some people want to take ALL the spirit out of the dog to prove it's docile and not aggressive. I think thats wrong. Tame the negative actions immediately, but don't crush it's spirit. With Choc, the rule is "If you don't want to wrestle a 60lb bear and get slobbered and chewed on, then don't go out and tussle with Choc." My son and I, we LOVE it!:woof:
> 
> BTW, thanks for posting this in hopes of helping someone else avoid this!


You should probably read this. In particular, performancekennels post. Nipping of any kind is not good. http://www.gopitbull.com/obedience-training/19536-nipping-biting.html

P.S. Mods I know this is an old thread and the OP has resolved it.


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