# Debating purchasing this bully puppy, advice?



## Renzen (Sep 6, 2012)

Hey everyone!

I'm looking at purchasing a pup from a local breeder, I debated a lot about buying his sister, but she ended up being snatched up before I made up my mind. He is 16 weeks now, 'PR' UKC, ABKC, and BBCR registered, and actually the last of his litter for sale. Ideally, I would really like a show pup, preferably for ABKC Classic Class that I can get from a local reputable breeder. I've been in contact with this breeder for several weeks, but I am debating if I should purchase him or simply wait and see what future litters she has. I know I definitely want a pup from the same sire as this litter, but I'm merely wondering if I should wait or go ahead and purchase him, and any input would be greatly valued!

Pedigree:









Bullypedia Page

A few pictures of him currently:




























I will be the first to admit I don't know much about showing, but I am interested in joining the bully showring soon! I may be a relative newbie to the showring, but members on this forum seem to be quite knowledgeable, so I'm hoping for good advice. Thanks everyone!


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

He is a cute pup but I do wonder, what do the breeders do with the parents? Are they show dogs? Any titles? If you want to get into showing, I would find breeders that do a lot of this  perhaps Lauren will chime in - she does shows and knows her stuff!!!


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

i see some good dogs in that ped and i see some i really dont like. for example i have a hard time believing that Buckshot came outta Knuckles X Red Lade especially when in the same Ped it shows that Blue Topaz of DF did too. paper hanger? 

anyways. looks like a good pup on paper. and as long as u get the ped urself and everything seems squared away i'd say ur good. 

although Coach has a good point. no titles for the parents? are the just pets? i see a few titles scattered through the ped but not many. what about health testing? hips? DNA tests?


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## cEElint (Oct 6, 2009)

top half of the ped has many of the same dogs in my Dre Doggs ped


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

ped looks nice but there is so much more to a dog then a ped, or titles especially when it comes to bullys. There are lots of dogs with titles I wouldn't even want as a pet in the ABKC. I would look directly at the parents structure and temperment and then again at the pup itself. From those pictures of the parents to me they kind of lack breed type , they look more classic class to me and if you are wanting to show I would atleast look for something standard { I love classic dogs but you rarely see them champ out in the ABKC , so for show purpose I would not go that route}, they also look very long in the body to me by those pics. If you have some better pics of them post them these are hard to judge much on. If this is really your cup of tea then go for it, for me it would be a no. But then again with the bullys there are so many classes and styles to choose from these days. I have deffinately seen worse dogs but I have also seen alot better then this.


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## SHARON MOYA (Feb 8, 2007)

I already don't like the front on this pup. Very bulldoggy looking front in these photos with loose elbows and some turning out in the pasterns... 

If you want something to show in the classic class, my advice is to find someone breeding old school west coast show line Amstaffs (Gaff, Sierra etc.), and just buy one of their "overdone" pups to show as a bully. 

For example,
I just placed an overdone pup into a Bully Show home... While I am sure he will win his AKC title while he is still young and hasn't fully filled out, When he matures he will be too much dog to continue to show successfully in the AKC. But for the ABKC ring he is perfect, because not only will he be thick, but he will have great conformation because of his AKC show blood....

I am actually showing in the ABKC for the first time myself this weekend with a boy who is an AKC/UKC Champion, but has loaded up a little with age and weight pull training... I think he's gonna rock it!


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## Renzen (Sep 6, 2012)

@Coach:

Both parents are showdogs. From what I understand Flip (sire) is quite close to Championing out in the ABKC's Classic Division and should within his next few shows. I am not sure about the dam, however, though I know they are both shown in the ABKC's Classic Division. I am going to a local show that they are also attending and will meet the parents in person at that time.

@Odin's Blue Dragon:

I agree about Buckshot. The sudden cropping up of him in the bloodline with the visible body type difference is definitely eyebrow raising. I am not sure about the health testing, thank you for bringing that up, I will be sure to ask.

@Angelbaby:

How would you say they are lacking in breed type? I am not sure, which is why I ask. Although you say they look more Classic Class, I say GOOD because that is the class I want to show in, even if I do have a hard time championing out a dog in that class, I much prefer Classic dogs over the rest, even the Standard, although I don't mind Standards either, I just like the Classics more.

@ Sharon Moya:

But wouldn't a wider bully chest be a bit better for the ABKC ring? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I had thought that might be better for the ABKC ring since judges in that circuit tend to like bullier dogs, regardless of whether they are actually showing in the Standard or Classic class? Although you are right about his pasterns! Looking closer at some of the other pictures, I can definitely see what you're talking about. How would you describe 'loose elbows'? I'm not sure that terminology and what would look right versus what doesn't. Do you mean that his elbows look like they bow out a little bit?

Here are a few more pictures of this boy:









8 weeks









8 weeks









14 weeks









14 weeks


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

when I said lack breed type to me they just dont look bully enough, classic class was being nice im not even sure they would do well in the classic class. { trust me I like the classic class dogs too , I own a couple}. The mom as said above looks cow hocked as well as this pup. There bodys really kill it for me they look too long to me. In the pic the mom looks high reared as well as the pup but the pup could just be in a growth spurt as well. You cant see the parents feet in those pics, really bad pics of the parents. At this point I would want to see better pics or videos of the parents to judge what the pup may be like later on. Again though if this is truely what you want then go for it, we are just giving our own opinions as to what you asked us for.


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## Renzen (Sep 6, 2012)

Here are more pictures of the Dam:





































Sire:














































I will admit I'm not too keen on the dam. I don't like her back, rear angulation, or something about her head I can't quite place.

I do appreciate your comments, Angelbaby! That's exactly what I came here for, so I can't exactly be upset or anything about it lol. At this point I will probably just wait to see what other pups she will breed in the future, after some of the comments here. I don't mind waiting, honestly.

Here are some of his siblings, btw:


















(same male as above, this is the pup the breeder kept)









(female I was originally interested in)



















and I think there were two more puppies that were bought pretty young so she doesn't have pictures up of them.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

I like the sire but ya I agree on the points you don't like on the Dam. To me the pup your looking at right now I see more of the dam in him. She isn't horrible don't get me wrong for bullys she is pretty clean , just little things I don't particularly care for on her. the tri pup is cute coloring wise but seems to have his moms rear, I like the 1st female you were looking at best out of the pups. I would wait and see what happens next time around as well. Are they planning a breeding with that stud and maybe a different female?


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## Odin`s_BlueDragon (Mar 11, 2012)

To me it sounds like u already know that this pup is not what u want and ur tryin to talk urself into it. I mean no offense by that at all! Im really happy that u came to us for opinions and input, and u sound like u know what to look for and what u want. Now comes the hard part, being patient enough to wait for what u want. Like Angel said, see if they are gunna have the male sire a litter off a different female and see what that produces.  u know what u want don't settle


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## Renzen (Sep 6, 2012)

@Angelbaby:

I agree with you. As an overall dog, Heartache is nice and quite clean for a bully, but if I want to start showing I know being picky will be a necessity. And yes, I'll admit I'm a sucker for tri-color and blue fawn pups, haha. I asked her if she was going to do a repeat breeding with the same sire and this dam. They had pretty great looking pups before and I told her if she did I'd probably be interested in one, but she said she didn't know yet. She also told me she'd keep me updated if she used Flip to sire another litter in the future.

@Odin's_Bluedragon:

No offense taken, as I think you are probably right. I was debating with myself, and the comments here have helped me make up my mind to wait. :]

Thanks so much everyone for your help, and I'll probably post again for more help deciding on a pup when this breeder has another litter. =D


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## Renzen (Sep 6, 2012)

OKAY SO.

The breeder has decided that she wants to sell her pick of the litter, and he tempts me a lot more than the brother she'd had up. This is the brother to the male pup above, so same age and parents and everything.

THOUGHTS?























































I will admit structurally I like him a lot better, plus, not gonna lie, I am pretty fond of his coloring. I actually think he'll grow up to be more Standard than Classic, but I'd be okay with that, lol.


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## ::::COACH:::: (Apr 4, 2012)

Oooooo don't like the front...but maybe the pictures aren't doing him justice. Love the colors though!  I am not a bully person so maybe I'm totally wrong


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

same parents? I still see the same as the rest, body looks really long to me, I agree I dont like the fronts, they look almost like they are bowing, maybe something you can do to fix it though since so young. Might just be a awkard stage. I also don't like the head on him, I know it will grow but the shape in general I don't like. I do like the color, im a sucker for tri's but at the same time I see alot of aweful looking tri's in the bully world. Such a pretty color and markings people breed for this but then put everything else on the back burner. i can name about 5 male tri's that I LOVE and maye 1-2 females lol and there are a TON of them out there to chose from. Don't buy based on color, put the other factors 1st , temperment, health, structure and then if set on a certain color put that last. You can buy for a color you like but make sure the rest of the stuff is in there too.


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## Renzen (Sep 6, 2012)

A short update, I ended up deciding to wait on a pup, and this year's litter she has is gorgeous and, imho, a lot better looking than the previous one.

For anyone interested in how the blue fawn female grew up, here she is currently:










But she has three that will be coming up for sale soon, and here is the male I am interested in that is currently 5 weeks old:




























Ped: BullyPedia|The American Bully Online Pedigree Database

Thoughts?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

awww he is cute. what a sweet heart.


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## Renzen (Sep 6, 2012)

He really is! Probably one of the prettiest sables I've ever seen, truthfully. =] Has great conformation, too.

Here's the rest of his siblings. I'm also fond of the light red female. The white piebald male is the one the breeder kept. I love the blue fawn female's markings, but conformation wise her head's a bit small and back's a bit long, IMHO. All of these pups are expected to be conformationally correct pockets or short standards. The Dam is 16" at the shoulder and the sire's 14".




























The Sire:










and Dam:


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## Renzen (Sep 6, 2012)

Very likely getting the sable male pup!


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