# Breed Purpose...



## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

We all know as dog men the APBT is the TRUE bulldog... It matches every aspect including the murials, sketches and oils of the 1700s. It is the only dog today that can own up to the simple name. BUT IN POLITICS the APBT of course is a terrier. Should be a working dog its the best at any utility theres no better stock dog. Hooch helped me move countless head, and saved my landlords life by taking on his 3200lbs brahma, who had cornerd him, also killing countless feral dogs and coyotes, to me thats what a true gamebred dog is for. SO what is the APBT to you? What about the OFFSHOOTS that are ADVERTISING AS PROTECTION APBTS; such as the Bully and Whopper dogs being used as protection K9's breeding man aggressive traits into the APBT stock? Colby once said "the last thing you want is a, man biting fighting dog".. I totally agree.. So what the purpose of the dogs if not to wrangle game and kill predators?




A proper way to train a hand biting man dog......


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Actually I read in Colby's book that the APBT is not a terrier at all.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

I will have to disagree with you on the APBT being exactly the same as the old time BUlldog, I have seen drawings of old time bulldogs and they look more like American Bulldogs with heavy bone, and lots of wrinkles unlike the modern APBT. I believe the APBT is a decendent of the old bulldogs but they are not the same thing. From what I read they bred down the size of the Bulldog so it could be easier to manage and so it could have more stamina possibly adding hunting terriers for stamina and drive while mainting the bite, stubborness and brute force of the bulldog. Having a shorter dog could enable it to be less prone to getting damaged by the bull's horns since it would be lower to the ground, however, I think there is soo many variations to the bulldog type dogs that you could possible have some types that ressembled APBT's but you also had larger thicker types that ressembled American Bulldogs. Back in the day they didn't breed for looks or conformation just function.


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

> What about the OFFSHOOTS that are ADVERTISING AS PROTECTION APBTS; such as the Bully and Whopper dogs being used as protection K9's breeding man aggressive traits into the APBT stock?


What does breeding mastiff into the breed. (not that I agree or disagree with it) but how does that mean they are breeding Man Aggressive traits into the dog?

Most Mastiff where not bred to be human aggressive .. Presa where and are flock guardians .. man made them into fighting dogs, man is trying to turn them into PP dogs .. but with all that does not mean they are man aggressive nor in the pit.

Explain ???


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> What does breeding mastiff into the breed. (not that I agree or disagree with it) but how does that mean they are breeding Man Aggressive traits into the dog?
> 
> Most Mastiff where not bred to be human aggressive .. Presa where and are flock guardians .. man made them into fighting dogs, man is trying to turn them into PP dogs .. but with all that does not mean they are man aggressive nor in the pit.
> 
> Explain ???


Presas are nothing to mess with lol I have never been around a dog that did not care about being petted by strangers and not even one tail wag. Now that's scary, I could see breeding that or a neo into a high drive pit dog turning into something scary.


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

davidfitness83 said:


> Presas are nothing to mess with lol I have never been around a dog that did not care about being petted by strangers and not even one tail wag. Now that's scary, I could see breeding that or a neo into a high drive pit dog turning into something scary.


Are you kidding me

I have been around Presa's now for 10 yrs and I have some of the most nicest Presa's around. I dont know what lines you have been around .. oh wait lets see .... Irema Curto right ... Oh and wait the jerks that think they should make a PRESA into an aggressive dog .. Hmm this is coming from a Pit bull owner .. I can say the same about pittys but I dont b/c I have seen really good ones with GREAT owners and I have seen ones that should be put down along with there stupid owner.

Matter of FACT have you heard of Lee Robinson (chimera Kennel) .. who has Bred Presa X Pitty or even a Neo X Pitty to create you AMERICAN BANDOG...
He has some of the Nicest Working dogs I have seen in a new mix / new breed of dog.

But I know in the end I have NO clue what I am talking about right !!!!


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

The most obvious is the most inconspicuous.... The bulldog went into the fighting pit; forever dubbed "pit bull" Only one breed throughout the world still hold true to the name, APBT... I read that in Colbys book too, but I also read that the terrier and bulldog diverged not converged from the the pit dog, Colby, Stratton, and several others are on this page. I agree w/ them old timers of that mindset. _ Again though; what is the purpose of a "bully breed" that is not bred for game._ 
I have many people in Montanna and Idaho get my bulldogs (sorry APBTs) cause you only need one, and they can take on almost anything delt, from coyotes, to wolves, mt.lion, bear, wolverine and feral dogs, replacing American Bulldogs that were killed or Rotti, or Ovacharka, which all are supposed to be dogs of superior predator control and stock function, but yet my 45lbs game bred dogs do a better job. We can't roll our dogs for game testing; but we can run for 2hrs and then engage somthing that BITES BACK! This is coupled w/how they act w/my 6kids is how I pick and choose my breeders and keepers.. In that aspect Im country like that. 

I only bring up BREED FUNCTION because the GERMAN SHEPARD use to be just that(stock dog), but it was so good at being a guard dog they utilized and bred for those qualities, GSD attack and kill more children every year more than any other breed, because they are NOW naturally MAN aggressive. It only takes 2 generations to create a manbiter gene, and a lifetime to erase it..... What is to come of our high end game dogs if we lose function and purpose?


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Firehazard said:


> I only bring up BREED FUNCTION because the GERMAN SHEPARD use to be just that(stock dog), but it was so good at being a guard dog they utilized and bred for those qualities, GSD attack and kill more children every year more than any other breed, because they are NOW naturally MAN aggressive. It only takes 2 generations to create a manbiter gene, and a lifetime to erase it..... What is to come of our high end game dogs if we lose function and purpose?


I fully agree with your statement about GSD but I also believe it has to do with the breeding itself. A lot of my GSD friends who do working dogs will tell you that the show world has ruined the breed and I agree due to the fact that they breed for looks and a type of movement. Having the slope they do in the rear causes spine damage which can turn into aggression from being touched. Inbreeding that AKC allows will also play a big part in it.


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> Are you kidding me
> 
> I have been around Presa's now for 10 yrs and I have some of the most nicest Presa's around. I dont know what lines you have been around .. oh wait lets see .... Irema Curto right ... Oh and wait the jerks that think they should make a PRESA into an aggressive dog .. Hmm this is coming from a Pit bull owner .. I can say the same about pittys but I dont b/c I have seen really good ones with GREAT owners and I have seen ones that should be put down along with there stupid owner.
> 
> ...


The breeding line was actually more or less Dogo Canario so it was watered down from the working lines of the Presa dogs. As far as the dog being agressive it was not, It would accept touch and no growling nor agressive body language was communicated by the dog. It even accepted cookies from strangers when it was up for adoption at petsmart with tons of people and dogs and never did it show agression, in fact the dog was extremely confident. I was just explaning how that dog and several Cane Corsos (I do not believe it's a real breed more of a bandog) I have been around aren't wired the same way in my opinion as a Pitbull. The ones I have seen check people out and then that's it, they dont wag their tail and go crazy for people to pet them they sit or lay by their owner. I was not saying that you don't know what you are talking about, specially since you say you have been around them for over 10 yrs that's way more than me. Perhaps I came across a bunch of bandogs that didn't represent the breed well but I did notice a difference in temperament to that of a pit dog. Maybe that was my observation but I value your knowledge and input sorry if I came across the wrong way


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> Are you kidding me
> 
> I have been around Presa's now for 10 yrs and I have some of the most nicest Presa's around. I dont know what lines you have been around .. oh wait lets see .... Irema Curto right ... Oh and wait the jerks that think they should make a PRESA into an aggressive dog .. Hmm this is coming from a Pit bull owner .. I can say the same about pittys but I dont b/c I have seen really good ones with GREAT owners and I have seen ones that should be put down along with there stupid owner.
> 
> ...


American Bandogs/Bandogues/Bandogges have been around as long as pit dogs THATS ANOTHER CAN OF WORMS... Im looking at Presa and Cane websites right now, spain and italy, both are advertising giant man eaters, Im sorry.... Protection dogs... As a former K9 instructor, I love these dogs while I was working and if it wasnt for FORREST GUMPING my way into a pure Jocko rednose, I would of had one; a corso or a presa. 
I got a schipperke as a protection dog NOW!!!! LOL then I dial .357 ((chuckles))


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

Firehazard said:


> The most obvious is the most inconspicuous.... The bulldog went into the fighting pit; forever dubbed "pit bull" Only one breed throughout the world still hold true to the name, APBT... I read that in Colbys book too, but I also read that the terrier and bulldog diverged not converged from the the pit dog, Colby, Stratton, and several others are on this page. I agree w/ them old timers of that mindset. _ Again though; what is the purpose of a "bully breed" that is not bred for game._
> I have many people in Montanna and Idaho get my bulldogs (sorry APBTs) cause you only need one, and they can take on almost anything delt, from coyotes, to wolves, mt.lion, bear, wolverine and feral dogs, replacing American Bulldogs that were killed or Rotti, or Ovacharka, which all are supposed to be dogs of superior predator control and stock function, but yet my 45lbs game bred dogs do a better job. We can't roll our dogs for game testing; but we can run for 2hrs and then engage somthing that BITES BACK! This is coupled w/how they act w/my 6kids is how I pick and choose my breeders and keepers.. In that aspect Im country like that.
> 
> I only bring up BREED FUNCTION because the GERMAN SHEPARD use to be just that(stock dog), but it was so good at being a guard dog they utilized and bred for those qualities, GSD attack and kill more children every year more than any other breed, because they are NOW naturally MAN aggressive. It only takes 2 generations to create a manbiter gene, and a lifetime to erase it..... What is to come of our high end game dogs if we lose function and purpose?


When any powerful breed is bred for looks you can run into a lot of problems, totally agree with you. I think gamedogs are crazy and extremely functional but I still think they were the product of other type of larger bulldogs.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> I fully agree with your statement about GSD but I also believe it has to do with the breeding itself. A lot of my GSD friends who do working dogs will tell you that the show world has ruined the breed and I agree due to the fact that they breed for looks and a type of movement. Having the slope they do in the rear causes spine damage which can turn into aggression from being touched. Inbreeding that AKC allows will also play a big part in it.


Right on, sounds ironic, seems the same thing is happing w/ the APBT and EVERY OTHER GREAT working DOG... Turning them man aggressive only to be oneday banned.. .LOL SHOW DOG politics..... politics is just red tape; a fancy name for confusing the truth and delaying achievement....


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

davidfitness83 said:


> The breeding line was actually more or less Dogo Canario so it was watered down from the working lines of the Presa dogs. As far as the dog being agressive it was not, It would accept touch and no growling nor agressive body language was communicated by the dog. It even accepted cookies from strangers when it was up for adoption at petsmart with tons of people and dogs and never did it show agression, in fact the dog was extremely confident. I was just explaning how that dog and several Cane Corsos (I do not believe it's a real breed more of a bandog) I have been around aren't wired the same way in my opinion as a Pitbull. The ones I have seen check people out and then that's it, they dont wag their tail and go crazy for people to pet them they sit or lay by their owner. I was not saying that you don't know what you are talking about, specially since you say you have been around them for over 10 yrs that's way more than me. Perhaps I came across a bunch of bandogs that didn't represent the breed well but I did notice a difference in temperament to that of a pit dog. Maybe that was my observation but I value your knowledge and input sorry if I came across the wrong way


David .. thank you .. I truly love my breed as you love yours. 
First please do not fall for the Dogo / Presa stupity due to it is only a two name breed due to registries .. that fight all started once FCI decided to change the name b/c they felt the Presa name was to intimidating. STUPID in my book but I call my dogs Presa's & Dogos b/c they are. And another point of it .. most of the working dogs in the SO CALLED Presa/Dogo world are the DOGO if you actually go look up in the PSA,SCHH,IRONDOG etc and then look up Pedigrees you will see.... 
Just like now so many Pittys are UKC APBT Reg & AKC AST Reg .. so to me that now states they are the same ? different ? .. its all in the registry .. ya know !!! 
I agree with you on the Cane Corso .. they are a italian Bandog that FCI took in as a breed .. they are known for being a Italian Mastif Hybrid.. I do not like the breed as I have been around alot of them going to Molosser shows and seen them be petted fully liking it then all of a sudden turning on the person. very unstable ... but then I also do not like the American Neo either due to them being a VERY aggressive dog in general .. now for the italian Neo different story ... NICE WORKING DOG.

All smiles


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Should APBT breeders and kennels discourage APBT protection dog programs? Bullys and Whoppers; Should they advertise as PROTECTION APBTs?


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

geisthexe said:


> What does breeding mastiff into the breed. (not that I agree or disagree with it) but how does that mean they are breeding Man Aggressive traits into the dog?
> 
> Most Mastiff where not bred to be human aggressive .. Presa where and are flock guardians .. man made them into fighting dogs, man is trying to turn them into PP dogs .. but with all that does not mean they are man aggressive nor in the pit.
> 
> Explain ???


Mastiffs are bred from war dogs that are supposed t be extremely HA.
A proper mastiff temperament, back when mastiffs were still true working dogs, were Estate Guardians, as well as war dogs.
Simple Math:
Athletic Pit Bulldog + HA Mastiff= Athletic Man Stopper with super stamina

And you may say Presas are not HA but they are promoted as PP dogs.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Firehazard said:


> Should APBT breeders and kennels discourage APBT protection dog programs? Bullys and Whoppers; Should they advertise as PROTECTION APBTs?


I wish there was no such thing as a PP trained APBT.
However there are some very good Schutzhund dogs out there.
Too bad the majority of "trainers" are not qualified to teach PP.
Many folks can teach the Attack but don't figure out how to train the "out."


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Sampsons Dad said:


> I wish there was no such thing as a PP trained APBT.
> However there are some very good Schutzhund dogs out there.
> Too bad the majority of "trainers" are not qualified to teach PP.
> Many folks can teach the Attack but don't figure out how to train the "out."


Ya know! :clap:


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Firehazard said:


> American Bandogs/Bandogues/Bandogges have been around as long as pit dogs THATS ANOTHER CAN OF WORMS... Im looking at Presa and Cane websites right now, spain and italy, both are advertising giant man eaters, Im sorry.... Protection dogs... As a former K9 instructor, I love these dogs while I was working and if it wasnt for FORREST GUMPING my way into a pure Jocko rednose, I would of had one; a corso or a presa.
> I got a schipperke as a protection dog NOW!!!! LOL then I dial .357 ((chuckles))


I just laugh at the kennels that state they have PP trained Presa minus Red Star Kennels who have proven it time and time again. 
but like I have stated again and again .. I love doing the other sports with this breed due to I will be the first to create a good weight pulling line presa..

Schipperke is no joke though .. they can be mean little chits


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Sampsons Dad said:


> Mastiffs are bred from war dogs that are supposed t be extremely HA.
> A proper mastiff temperament, back when mastiffs were still true working dogs, were Estate Guardians, as well as war dogs.
> Simple Math:
> Athletic Pit Bulldog + HA Mastiff= Athletic Man Stopper with super stamina
> ...


Hun it depends on what type of mastif you are speaking about.. 
English Mastif = war dog

Presa canario (Canary Island Mastif) = Flock Guardian ..

Big Difference

Again I do not agree with them claiming they have PP dogs


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Sampsons Dad said:


> Mastiffs are bred from war dogs that are supposed t be extremely HA.
> A proper mastiff temperament, back when mastiffs were still true working dogs, were Estate Guardians, as well as war dogs.
> Simple Math:
> Athletic Pit Bulldog + HA Mastiff= Athletic Man Stopper with super stamina
> ...


:goodpost: SAY IT CRAYON!!!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> David .. thank you .. I truly love my breed as you love yours.
> First please do not fall for the Dogo / Presa stupity due to it is only a two name breed due to registries .. that fight all started once FCI decided to change the name b/c they felt the Presa name was to intimidating. STUPID in my book but I call my dogs Presa's & Dogos b/c they are. And another point of it .. most of the working dogs in the SO CALLED Presa/Dogo world are the DOGO if you actually go look up in the PSA,SCHH,IRONDOG etc and then look up Pedigrees you will see....
> Just like now so many Pittys are UKC APBT Reg & AKC AST Reg .. so to me that now states they are the same ? different ? .. its all in the registry .. ya know !!!
> I agree with you on the Cane Corso .. they are a italian Bandog that FCI took in as a breed .. they are known for being a Italian Mastif Hybrid.. I do not like the breed as I have been around alot of them going to Molosser shows and seen them be petted fully liking it then all of a sudden turning on the person. very unstable ... but then I also do not like the American Neo either due to them being a VERY aggressive dog in general .. now for the italian Neo different story ... NICE WORKING DOG.
> ...


Many people that I have chatted from Spain, UK and the states claim that the dogo canario is to the presa what the amstaff is to the real apbt. A lot of people say that Dogos are being bred away from the working abilities and strictly show and this is where the name change came to be. If I am not mistaken they are doing the same to the Fila because the original standard does not allow the dog to accept the hand of a stranger at any cost, since they want to bring them to shows you can't have a dog wanting to attack the judge or people around it. I love the breed but they are too big and expensive for my wallet. I actually might consider an Alano but that would be later on they are smaller, athletic and normally bred for function rather than looks although they are amazing looking.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

The Neo is not a teddybear.
It is supposed to be a War dog/Guard dog.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

davidfitness83 said:


> Many people that I have chatted from Spain, UK and the states claim that the dogo canario is to the presa what the amstaff is to the real apbt. A lot of people say that Dogos are being bred away from the working abilities and strictly show and this is where the name change came to be. If I am not mistaken they are doing the same to the Fila because the original standard does not allow the dog to accept the hand of a stranger at any cost, since they want to bring them to shows you can't have a dog wanting to attack the judge or people around it. I love the breed but they are too big and expensive for my wallet. I actually might consider an Alano but that would be later on they are smaller, athletic and normally bred for function rather than looks although they are amazing looking.


This is my understanding as well....


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## Aximus Prime (Dec 15, 2009)

APBT's are loyal pets when raised right, no? They can make great game dogs as well...I see that as a dual purpose dog. Most family dogs are not this versatile.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Aximus Prime said:


> APBT's are loyal pets when raised right, no? They can make great game dogs as well...I see that as a dual purpose dog. Most family dogs are not this versatile.


"Dogs of prey, Original Gamebred Bulldog, I am loyal to family and a .45 on command. I am strong and reserve, your bulletproof catch machine."
Ess..Ru'Ah~


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I hate the fact that ppl are advertising aggressive and protection trained APBT's. Like that video you posted what a bunch of BS, many people are raking in the cash teaching "protection dogs" but have no clue WTH they are doing. I do Sch with my dogs but that does not mean they are PP dogs. When I breed my Sch it is not to look for that guardian trait or "aggressive" trait. I am just looking for high prey drive and good nerves among other things but aggression is not desirable. The protection world has made a mess of the Sport world like Sch, PSA, ring and other like sports. Because people think that getting a "pp" dog is cool and have no clue what they are doing they are making man biters. Then when these yahoo's breed for it they are making genetic man biters. The whole thing makes me sick to see it when it is advertised.\

Testing for gameness is another whole can of worms I do not want to open. I have many working dogs that do many sports and when I look for a dog I am looking for high drive that can be applied to anything I want. I also like gamebred stock but many on here that do sports have other things they look for. I guess it depends on who you ask.


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

how many here have actual experience with the breeds listed let alone experience working the different breeds spoken about in this thread? just wondering?


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## Aximus Prime (Dec 15, 2009)

If the dog has a high drive to go after "prey" doesn't this spell death for the felines in the vicinity? 

My dog is not dog aggressive in the least but when I take him by my sister's place and he sees her cat....it's all I can do to keep him from killing it!


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

davidfitness83 said:


> Many people that I have chatted from Spain, UK and the states claim that the dogo canario is to the presa what the amstaff is to the real apbt. A lot of people say that Dogos are being bred away from the working abilities and strictly show and this is where the name change came to be. If I am not mistaken they are doing the same to the Fila because the original standard does not allow the dog to accept the hand of a stranger at any cost, since they want to bring them to shows you can't have a dog wanting to attack the judge or people around it. I love the breed but they are too big and expensive for my wallet. I actually might consider an Alano but that would be later on they are smaller, athletic and normally bred for function rather than looks although they are amazing looking.


Again you MUST realize that this all started b/c of only registries. 
I guess then I have dogos .. since my two older Presa's / Dogos are Imports decents from Poland and Brazil .. 
My new female then she is Half dogo (Mom Poland) and presa (Dad Spain)
Its all a way of selling and bull***tting a potential buyer. I claim both names cuz they are BOTH names. 
So I guess in your all eyes I have the 1st Dogo Sporting Dogs ... HMMM NOT PRESA .. What a Joke ..

Guess all of you who have blue pits and big headed pits, Oh and lard looking bulldog pits .. all have Amstaffs right LOL .. again a joke ..

You all sound crazy to think that a dog/breed is seperated because of registry .. they do not make the breed seperate .. YOU DO!!!!


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

geisthexe said:


> Again you MUST realize that this all started b/c of only registries.
> I guess then I have dogos .. since my two older Presa's / Dogos are Imports decents from Poland and Brazil ..
> My new female then she is Half dogo (Mom Poland) and presa (Dad Spain)
> Its all a way of selling and bull***tting a potential buyer. I claim both names cuz they are BOTH names.
> ...


Yu are wrong about Presas and about pit bulls.
APBT are a working dog built and bred off of performance.
The Perro de Presa was a working bull dog....nw the name has changed since the dogs are no longer mostly farm dogs and breedings are not based on farm working ability.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

wheezie said:


> how many here have actual experience with the breeds listed let alone experience working the different breeds spoken about in this thread? just wondering?


:goodpost: good point!!!! I have worked with the breeds they are discussing but I am staying out of it


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

wheezie said:


> how many here have actual experience with the breeds listed let alone experience working the different breeds spoken about in this thread? just wondering?


I do, Neo, pit, bull dogs, staffs...etc etc


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Sampsons Dad said:


> Yu are wrong about Presas and about pit bulls.
> APBT are a working dog built and bred off of performance.
> The Perro de Presa was a working bull dog....nw the name has changed since the dogs are no longer mostly farm dogs and breedings are not based on farm working ability.


Please tell me where you got that quote from .. 
FCI changed the name in 1996 because of all the bad rap the breed was getting from the lady who was killed SF/CA 
Better do you research .. love to know where you get your story from

Frankly I am not truly quoting anything about the pit bull .. I dont need to know as I DO NOT have the breed nor do I BREED them ... but I truly love them ... 
So again show me your FACTS


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> Again you MUST realize that this all started b/c of only registries.
> I guess then I have dogos .. since my two older Presa's / Dogos are Imports decents from Poland and Brazil ..
> My new female then she is Half dogo (Mom Poland) and presa (Dad Spain)
> Its all a way of selling and bull***tting a potential buyer. I claim both names cuz they are BOTH names.
> ...


whether it started from registries or not the breeds have been changed you have the amstaff and you have a gamedog. Are you trying to say that an amstaff and gamedog are the same thing just one is akc and one is abda registered? If you breed a dog for show and not function you are going to get a dog that looses function and therefore becomes another breed such as the separation of the APBT and the AMSTAFF. Just like if you take the Orijenza away from a Fila so it can look pretty in a show ring and not hurt anyone then it is no longer a FILA. Just like if you have a catch dog such as the Presa with high prey drive, extreme athleticism and then you only breed dogs that look a certain way and not consider their ability to work with the cattle or stamina then you are going to get a DOGO which is the show version. Go to ELPRESA.COM and see what people that eat, breath and sleep this breed think about your theory.

I can make my own registry and call it the DAVID KENNEL CLUB if I breed a dog for a particular function then someone starts another kennel club such as SHOW DOG KENNEL CLUB and they take my dogs and only select dogs that have a particular look and do not work them, then these dogs will no longer continue being the same breed because they will loose their intended working purpose for being.


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Sampsons Dad said:


> I do, Neo, pit, bull dogs, staffs...etc etc


Love proof of this one!!! Must bow to the EXPERT


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

davidfitness83 said:


> whether it started from registries or not the breeds have been changed you have the amstaff and you have a gamedog. Are you trying to say that an amstaff and gamedog are the same thing just one is akc and one is abda registered? If you breed a dog for show and not function you are going to get a dog that looses function and therefore becomes another breed such as the separation of the APBT and the AMSTAFF. Just like if you take the Orijenza away from a Fila so it can look pretty in a show ring and not hurt anyone then it is no longer a FILA. Just like if you have a catch dog such as the Presa with high prey drive, extreme athleticism and then you only breed dogs that look a certain way and not consider their ability to work with the cattle or stamina then you are going to get a DOGO which is the show version. Go to ELPRESA.COM and see what people that eat, breath and sleep this breed think about your theory.
> 
> I can make my own registry and call it the DAVID KENNEL CLUB if I breed a dog for a particular function then someone starts another kennel club such as SHOW DOG KENNEL CLUB and they take my dogs and only select dogs that have a particular look and do not work them, then these dogs will no longer continue being the same breed because they will loose their intended working purpose for being.


:woof::woof::woof::woof::woof::woof:
Word up!..lol---yeah I know Im old!..lol


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## davidfitness83 (Jul 7, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> Love proof of this one!!! Must bow to the EXPERT


HE has a giant pack of Neos and Dogo Argentinos you can ask for pics:roll:


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

geisthexe said:


> Love proof of this one!!! Must bow to the EXPERT


What does that mean?


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> Again you MUST realize that this all started b/c of only registries.
> I guess then I have dogos .. since my two older Presa's / Dogos are Imports decents from Poland and Brazil ..
> My new female then she is Half dogo (Mom Poland) and presa (Dad Spain)
> Its all a way of selling and bull***tting a potential buyer. I claim both names cuz they are BOTH names.
> ...


Actually, dog politics directed by the organized kennel clubs change and seperate the breed, according to their personal preference... People are like monkey see monkey do... Of course the mentality of the dog changes when breeding practices change.. Actually there are only a couple of game AKC Amstaff lines ironically those dogs are ADBA/UKC APBTs crosspapered.. A "bully" line or a "whopper" line dog isn't game so what is their function if not a stock dog? Like your Presa/Dogo (in the old world all the fighting bulldogs/molossers were alaunts or dogos) Politics from town to town, country to country altered the dog for Personal preference.. LOOK at the Kampfer/Boxer when it first came to America in 1880's, AKC and a some european registeries decided to linebreed the BOXER to seperate the KAMPFER(fighter) from the OH SO CLOSE;Yankee Terrier, Pit Terrier, Bulldog, Pit Bulldog, see again its always POLITICS, at one time the Boston Terrier was Boston Pit Bulldog, Boston Pit Bulldog, Boston Bulldog... Look at Sgnt.Stubby.. That dog wrangled a wild AMERICAN BUFFALO... BACK TO THE FUNCTION AT HAND... IF NOT TO WRANGLE GAME AND SERVE AS A STOCK DOG, whats their purpose? Esspecially when a dog bred to protect land and livestock from poachers and thieves is put into a closed quarters environment w/ lil' to do... Like I tell people w/ my bulldog ah' sorry "APBT" pups,_ " with these dogs they will tell you they have to be trained to fight, NO< you need to train these dogs not to fight. Dont think this is a protection dog, as APBTs are the nations most stollen dog, but when it comes to game;my pups are silent fire from the get go..."_ I haven't met to many non U.S. bandog breeds, or molosser breeds that were easily stollen as adults... But then again I have only seen imports.. Even the Tosa is aggressive towards strangers and its considered the worlds largest gamedog at over 165lbs. They push it as a guard dog, who needs a silent 200lb man killer?


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

davidfitness83 said:


> whether it started from registries or not the breeds have been changed you have the amstaff and you have a gamedog. Are you trying to say that an amstaff and gamedog are the same thing just one is akc and one is abda registered? If you breed a dog for show and not function you are going to get a dog that looses function and therefore becomes another breed such as the separation of the APBT and the AMSTAFF. Just like if you take the Orijenza away from a Fila so it can look pretty in a show ring and not hurt anyone then it is no longer a FILA. Just like if you have a catch dog such as the Presa with high prey drive, extreme athleticism and then you only breed dogs that look a certain way and not consider their ability to work with the cattle or stamina then you are going to get a DOGO which is the show version. Go to ELPRESA.COM and see what people that eat, breath and sleep this breed think about your theory.
> 
> I can make my own registry and call it the DAVID KENNEL CLUB if I breed a dog for a particular function then someone starts another kennel club such as SHOW DOG KENNEL CLUB and they take my dogs and only select dogs that have a particular look and do not work them, then these dogs will no longer continue being the same breed because they will loose their intended working purpose for being.


I am not trying to say they are the same or not the same .. but you have People with Blues that are not in correct standards of new or old ones but they still call them Pit Bulls .. Wrong? No .. and they are not true pits. 
But Dogo / Presa are still the same dog .. its not old enough in this breed to state that one is a show dog and one is a working dog. AGAIN Dogos have proven them to be working dogs more then the so called Presa World. I am on El Presa and I read there bull and talk to them over and over again ... but if you also read they ONLY believe in Irema Curto .. a man who breeds other breeds into the newer lines and has stated it ... 
Better go read a little be further before you start about El Presa .. 
El Presa internet kings hate the dogo folks ... thats the end of that subject oh wait they are also jealous of what the dogo world has done with there dogs since most of the El Presa Internet kings have done CRAP but get on the net and gosip about nothing but Irema Curto

Yes you can no different then Swinford Bandogs .. So you are saying that when Swinford took his GAME line Pit bull and bred it to a mastiff to start creating his new breed ... he took the game out of the dog .. Bandogs are proving themselves to be more and more athletic dogs and proving themselves to be great working dogs.

This can go on and on .. believe what you will about the Presa/Dogo .. just more Internet Kings


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Sampsons Dad said:


> What does that mean?


I would love to know your proof you have worked with the dogs you claim


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Firehazard said:


> Actually, dog politics directed by the organized kennel clubs change and seperate the breed, according to their personal preference... People are like monkey see monkey do... Of course the mentality of the dog changes when breeding practices change.. Actually there are only a couple of game AKC Amstaff lines ironically those dogs are ADBA/UKC APBTs crosspapered.. A "bully" line or a "whopper" line dog isn't game so what is their function if not a stock dog? Like your Presa/Dogo (in the old world all the fighting bulldogs/molossers were alaunts or dogos) Politics from town to town, country to country altered the dog for Personal preference.. LOOK at the Kampfer/Boxer when it first came to America in 1880's, AKC and a some european registeries decided to linebreed the BOXER to seperate the KAMPFER(fighter) from the OH SO CLOSE;Yankee Terrier, Pit Terrier, Bulldog, Pit Bulldog, see again its always POLITICS, at one time the Boston Terrier was Boston Pit Bulldog, Boston Pit Bulldog, Boston Bulldog... Look at Sgnt.Stubby.. That dog wrangled a wild AMERICAN BUFFALO... BACK TO THE FUNCTION AT HAND... IF NOT TO WRANGLE GAME AND SERVE AS A STOCK DOG, whats their purpose? Esspecially when a dog bred to protect land and livestock from poachers and thieves is put into a closed quarters environment w/ lil' to do... Like I tell people w/ my bulldog ah' sorry "APBT" pups,_ " with these dogs they will tell you they have to be trained to fight, NO< you need to train these dogs not to fight. Dont think this is a protection dog, as APBTs are the nations most stollen dog, but when it comes to game;my pups are silent fire from the get go..."_ I haven't met to many non U.S. bandog breeds, or molosser breeds that were easily stollen as adults... But then again I have only seen imports.. Even the Tosa is aggressive towards strangers and its considered the worlds largest gamedog at over 165lbs. They push it as a guard dog, who needs a silent 200lb man killer?


And I fully agree with you .. but you must also realize that FCI / UKC both registries that have the Presa Canario'/Dogo Canario have the same standards and function of the breed ... BECAUSE they band together to bring the registries to a much more function. AKC will always do what they do .. as FCI, CKC (canada) have DROPPED them due to there lack of wanting to work with one another ... 
So in most breeds function of sporting or show are coming together ..

Your Whopper and other NONE pitties should not be allow to be put in the registry as a pit .. period ..


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

geisthexe said:


> And I fully agree with you .. but you must also realize that FCI / UKC both registries that have the Presa Canario'/Dogo Canario have the same standards and function of the breed ... BECAUSE they band together to bring the registries to a much more function. AKC will always do what they do .. as FCI, CKC (canada) have DROPPED them due to there lack of wanting to work with one another ...
> So in most breeds function of sporting or show are coming together ..
> 
> Your Whopper and other NONE pitties should not be allow to be put in the registry as a pit .. period ..


I understand what your saying; My question now is " are they pushed as protection dogs, or what? All I have seen them used for by the public is protection.
_Though I know a guy in Nowata, Oklahoma who gathered all those freshies up back in 97~00 pushing to see what of Presa, Canes, DOgues, Tosa, Whoppers, and Game bred APBT(lightner/tudors/wilders) among several other what to me were just bandogs, from over seas.. to see what pushed his cattle better, etc. etc.. That was fun and I learned that Colby said it best " a bulldog/pitbull can out do any other breed at its own function and then whip em' when he's done." Thats what I learned as well from watching that man and his stock dogs._
IF someone asked me what a APBT was, I would say ... A gamebred stock dog, but then again everything I know about gamedogs comes from Oklahoma, and I have lived in inner urban areas but refuse to ever return to one, lol, my dogs have no purpose there.. Well we did kill urban coyotes in DFW for acouple of years, (chuckles) 
THANK YOU!!! for noticing that Whoppers among others are not true APBTs


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## vdubbinya (Oct 8, 2008)

lets all bow to the apbt god.


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