# A question about food :)



## D.J (Feb 27, 2010)

alot of my friends feed there dog chicken breast and dry mix, one even feeds his dog (staffy x pit) tripe? is this better than normal dog food or just as good? thanks


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## erik (Dec 8, 2009)

guess that it would be a matter of opinion. mine always check out very healthy at the vets . thats feeding with dry food


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## D.J (Feb 27, 2010)

i feed mine dry food too, just curious


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Well to answer your question it depends

If you are feeding a kibble that has lots of fillers in it (Corn Wheat Soy) and feeding RAW Chicken / Tripe then you are doing nothing for the dog. 

If you are feeding a kibble that has fillers like Rice / Oatmeal, you are doing a little better adding the Chicken / Tripe 

If you are feeding a kibble that has NO fillers in it you are doing much better adding Chicken / Tripe 

If you are feeding a RAW diet "thats the best" 

Are they doing good or bad for there dogs really neither. Are they hurting or damaging there dogs digestion system NO not at all ... Its really all preference on feeding your pet


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## D.J (Feb 27, 2010)

ok thanks  a RAW diet is just completely raw food? nothing else at all...? and he will have to be put on that slowly with kibble to get his digestive system used to it? get back at me please, thankyou


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

D.J;

RAW diet is just completely raw food? *Yes it is completely what most call human food*

nothing else at all...? *NO there is no kibble involved. It depends on what type of RAW you wanna put your dog on. RAW Meat / Oats / Veggies .. RAW Meat / Veggies .. RAW Meat Only*

and he will have to be put on that slowly with kibble to get his digestive system used to it? *Best advice is to give little bits at a time to see if you can get the dog to eat RAW meat, If the dog goes right to it then you need to just switch. You are going to get many on here to tell you to put the dog on a half and half to switch BUT you will have the dog go thru a cleansing process (diarrhea) b/c it is fully cleaning it system. So I would just fully switch the dog straight to it once they will eat it.*

Let me know if you have any other questions


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## fortyfootelf (Feb 2, 2010)

you all should listen to what giest has to say, she is very knowledgable, especially about food and nutrition. if i had the money i would totally do a raw diet but isntead i feed a holistic kibble.


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## D.J (Feb 27, 2010)

thanks giest  i do have another question simply because i know nothing about this apart from the little i have researched and what you have just told me  on another thread alot of people were talking about freezing the raw meat do they mean freeze then defrost before feeding to ure dog or frozen raw meat? because frozen raw meat doesnt sound right to me =/ lol, and the same question with vegetables  thankyou for ure time,, its appreciated


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## jeep lex (Jan 29, 2009)

D.J said:


> thanks giest  i do have another question simply because i know nothing about this apart from the little i have researched and what you have just told me  on another thread alot of people were talking about freezing the raw meat do they mean freeze then defrost before feeding to ure dog or frozen raw meat? because frozen raw meat doesnt sound right to me =/ lol, and the same question with vegetables  thankyou for ure time,, its appreciated


dont give your dog frozen meat, when you hear people talk about freezing the meat its just because when feeding raw its cost effective to buy in bulk when meat is on sale and freeze it if your feeding raw always make sure the meat is fully defrosted


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

Hey Dj, here a great site on RAW/BARF, and geisthexe is probably one of the most knowledged on this issue ( on almost all regarding health and nutrition), let me know if you have any more questions, although I definitely reccomend you asking Geisthexe about all.

Jane Anderson's Raw Learning Site


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## D.J (Feb 27, 2010)

thanks nina  and yeah she seems to know what she's talking about 
and thanks for the link


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## D.J (Feb 27, 2010)

sos jeep lex i didnt see your post, thanks for clearing that up for me, my mum would never let me put that amount of meat in her freezer lol, ill have to buy one of those cheap ones that opens like a chest lol and keep it in the garage or sumfink


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

D.J said:


> thanks giest  i do have another question simply because i know nothing about this apart from the little i have researched and what you have just told me  on another thread alot of people were talking about freezing the raw meat do they mean freeze then defrost before feeding to ure dog or frozen raw meat? because frozen raw meat doesnt sound right to me =/ lol, and the same question with vegetables  thankyou for ure time,, its appreciated


DJ

On Frozen Meat

We freeze the meat to kill all the bacteria in the meat. That doesnt mean it kills parasites. Pork is the most parasite meat around. I myself will not feed it. 
But you freeze the meat for 72 hour to kill bacteria
Then unfreeze to give to your dogs. 
If you take a large quanity out make sure you feed it within the 72 hours b/c bacteria can start to build up again. Bacteria can cause a dog to get diarrhea no different then in you.


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## thrbeingcool (Mar 23, 2010)

i don't think freezing meat kills bacteria... it just prevents more bacteria from growing, so you should freeze your meat as soon as you get it until you are ready to use it to keep the bacteria count lower. dogs systems can handle bacteria on meat that ours cannot.


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

thrbeingcool said:


> i don't think freezing meat kills bacteria... it just prevents more bacteria from growing, so you should freeze your meat as soon as you get it until you are ready to use it to keep the bacteria count lower. dogs systems can handle bacteria on meat that ours cannot.


i disagree, freezing definitely kills bacteria and parasites ,yet I dont see a need to link scientific papers to state my point:

Bacteria is a living organism. Most will die in temperatures above 160 degrees, and just about all at boiling ( 212 degrees ... yet with food, you will also cook away many nutrients at that level)

... same goes with freezing, living things will die at extreme cold temperatures over an extended period, that's elementary.

certain foods and their mass require different exposure rates to freezing cold in order for them to be virtually bacteria and parasite free. some foods can be frozen for 12 hours, others for longer.


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## thrbeingcool (Mar 23, 2010)

This comes from the link you did post-

But what about bacteria on raw chicken?
So many good questions!

Ok, there is bacteria everywhere. Dogs have an amazing immunity system specifically designed to eat all manner of bacteria. And a healthy raw fed fed dog manages those bacteria without a problem.

E-coli, salmonella, etc are found on raw chicken, but those nasties are also found in your fridge, in your sink, on your floor, in your backyard, in your car, on the footpath, down at the park, and perhaps in your bed! Interestingly, the only cases I have heard of dogs dying from e-coli or salmonella, were dogs fed commercial dog foods.

The most important thing is to wash your hands thoroughly after feeding your dogs, and even after cutting up meat for your own meals. Our digestive systems are not quite as robust as our dogs, so we must protect ourselves.

I use a spray bottle containg white vinegar which I spray about when I need some disinfecting.

I have been feeding my animals a raw for several years, and have yet to have a problem with bacterial infections with my dogs. They are so darn healthy, they are never at the vets! Well, except for when I got them micro-chipped.

Additionally I have raised a number of litters all successfully on a raw diet. 

...and i don't think your home's freezer is considered "extreme cold".. most bacteria go dormant during freezing temperatures, but they will begin reproducing again as soon as the food is thawed. either way i guess it's not hurting anything freezing all of your dogs food just in case. i just don't think it is something that in necessary for your dog's raw diet. in the wild wolves do not freeze their food before they eat it to make sure there is no bacteria. in fact they bury their leftovers and came back for them later.


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

very good info... and no it may not be necessary, i agree with you on that. wolves and dogs are known to eat rotted meat as well.

but you stated that you dont think freezing kills bacteria, not that it's not necesarry.
whether its necessarry or not depends on what bacteria IS present in the meat, and unless you have a microscope and lots of time on your hands you will not know.

as for what constitutes extreme cold, i dont want to get into a discussion about thermal dynamics and debate about the meaning of absolute zero, but *regarding food*... below freezing point i consider extreme cold. regarding molecular biology that might be something different, but we are speaking about food and nutrition.

that post was definitely not mine, the question might have been.

my reply was to you stating that freezing does not kill bacteria. True it does not kill all bacteria ( but does handle parasites well). True bacteria, once thawed the microbes can become active. Not the case for parasites, and being that you are not going to keep raw meat laying on your kitchen counter for a week, where will you keep it.... and why?

*So yes, you are correct* freezing does not kill all bacteria. Just inactivates the microbes...
and if thawed at a speed that does not create conditions for it to spread to an unhealthy level and consumed into a dogs digestive system this should be sufficient preparedness against food borne illness. Until I have acres of ungulates roaming in my backyard for my dogs to hunt and kill, their diet will consist of meat that has once been frozen. either by me, or during the process of consumer packaging.

*touche*


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## fortyfootelf (Feb 2, 2010)

thrbeingcool said:


> i don't think freezing meat kills bacteria... it just prevents more bacteria from growing, so you should freeze your meat as soon as you get it until you are ready to use it to keep the bacteria count lower. dogs systems can handle bacteria on meat that ours cannot.


when you freeze something it actually does kill some bacteria (not all bacteria, but the majority of it). just like protons and neutrons and electron, bacteria is the same only different. when the temperature drops it make the molecules of an atom move slower and as they move slower they also moves closer together and eventually freeze. with that being said and since bacteria is a living organism it will not regenerate or reproduce but instead it will die away. once dead, they cannot revive themselves. and the only way that more living bacteria can come around is when the meat has defrosted and the remaining bacteria regenerates itself and reproduces. the meat or veggies have to remain over a certain temp in order for that bacteria to incubate and produce more living cells. therefore what you said isnt exactly true, but somewhat. the remaining bacteria is slowed to the point to where it still will not reproduce. until it is pulled out of the freeze in order to feed your dog. but yall have to remember not all bacteria is bad for dogs, just like humans, we need bacteria to survive. bacteria builds our immune system as well as fends away other bacteria. just like antibiotics.

feel free to give constructive critisism... im no scientist


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## D.J (Feb 27, 2010)

thanks guys


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## NinaThePitbull (Feb 10, 2010)

fortyfootelf said:


> feel free to give constructive critisism... im no scientist


...how about unconstructive praise?


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## fortyfootelf (Feb 2, 2010)

NinaThePitbull said:


> ...how about unconstructive praise?


its whatever.. i can take it i swear lol


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

NinaThePitbull said:


> i disagree, freezing definitely kills bacteria and parasites ,yet I dont see a need to link scientific papers to state my point:
> 
> Bacteria is a living organism. Most will die in temperatures above 160 degrees, and just about all at boiling ( 212 degrees ... yet with food, you will also cook away many nutrients at that level)
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost: Couldnt have said it better myself :woof:


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## geisthexe (Jan 18, 2007)

Dogs & Wolves can and will get diarrhea or vomitiing from eating Rotten Meat 
So why have it .. when you can prevent it. 

You can also eat rotten meat if thats all you have to eat as well get vomiting, diarrhea from it to keep your system clean from bad bacteria. 

I am one of the FEW folks I know that EAT RAW meat. Have been for about 6 yrs now and have NEVER gotten Ecoli or Salmonella (knock on wood :hammer 

If you were to just go and eat the way I do .. you would get sick .. have vomiting and diarrhea b/c it is a cleansing process your system goes through. But if you start with craps and fever then you have a underlining bacteria happening. 

Does that all make sense????


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

Lol I feel like I just sat through a science class I love it !!


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