# Pictures?



## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

*Pictures - History page (2 +)*

So i don't think i've "shared" anything even this year, so today after a several mile bike run Ashley decided to take a few pictures from her phone, thought i'd show everyone my hounds are still alive and kickin'..


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## Vilebeast (Feb 29, 2012)

Finally get to see your dogs. They look good.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Vilebeast said:


> Finally get to see your dogs. They look good.


Appreciate it.. Starting a keep later this month to get the rest of their winter weight off, been relaxed on training and working for the past few months between leg injury and getting sick with the flu for several weeks aside from their night jobs.


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## SMiGGs (Jul 6, 2011)

Lookin good dude


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

ive always liked your black dog, forget his name though.

those buckskins sorrell's dogs?


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## MamaTank (Jun 12, 2011)

They both look great!


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Looking good!


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## circlemkennels (Aug 29, 2010)

Looking good


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

zohawn said:


> ive always liked your black dog, forget his name though.
> 
> those buckskins sorrell's dogs?


Black one is Myles Buckskin is Kilie... On the bitches side there were 2 sorrell hounds in 6 generations.. Sire is unknown, was lucky enough to talk to the breeder in letting me take one of the pups since it was an accidental litter, don't know if another one of his Bulldogs got a hold of the bitch or another dog entirely.. Though we know what is likely.. Facts are facts, Took the chance, came out with nothing less than Bulldog. I avoid discussing her background as part of the agreement was to not associate his name or dogs which is understandable.

Myles you already know about.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Looking good.

Good dude to not man up to the litter and not try to pass them off as if he knew the sire. Not many people do that lol


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

American_Pit13 said:


> Looking good.
> 
> Good dude to not man up to the litter and not try to pass them off as if he knew the sire. Not many people do that lol


Him and dogs are respected among,, i had my work cut out to be able to get her. I knew what i was potentially getting and it was worth the risk.


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

The hounds are looking good KM!!!


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

Looking good man! How they getting along?


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

EL CUCO said:


> Looking good man! How they getting along?


:angeldevi getting along? They don't.. lol

Rotated between guarding auto shop and home, rotated while at home between outside/inside, rotated entirely.. I rarely take them out in the field together any longer, too much additional stress and burden for no reason..

If they are both dead ass tired, they can be put together for brief periods but it takes VERY little to put that to an end.


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## EL CUCO (Jul 25, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> :angeldevi getting along? They don't.. lol
> 
> Rotated between guarding auto shop and home, rotated while at home between outside/inside, rotated entirely.. I rarely take them out in the field together any longer, too much additional stress and burden for no reason..
> 
> If they are both dead ass tired, they can be put together for brief periods but it takes VERY little to put that to an end.


Lol hey...that's what we sign up for huh! :snap:


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

EL CUCO said:


> Lol hey...that's what we sign up for huh! :snap:


Wouldn't be Bulldoggin' any other way.. :cheers:


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

Yay!!!!! Good to see them. Man they sure have matured. They look great


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

myles sure came out nice


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

kg420 said:


> Yay!!!!! Good to see them. Man they sure have matured. They look great


Haha :cheers:



redog said:


> myles sure came out nice


Appreciate it,, throw back to Midnight on the bitches side (grand sire) almost entirely except hence the name, solid black.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Great Lookin dogs!!! I love the buckskin female, she looks like she has some fire to her. That male dog you got looks like a great all around worker with a good head about him hows his listening? (voice commannd) ?? I've seen a dog I've posted a lil on here that looks more mastiff than myles, hes the colby/whopper dog I posted a few times.. LOL I love to see bandogs and see how the APBT bulldog strain is dominant and the conformation that comes with a sound high end dog just happens to be part of the package and you don't even have to pay attention to looks, simply breed and use the best workers and the dogs morph back into bulldogs.. Strong genetics there, I can see all the hard work of the breeder really has produced a couple of great dogs. Thanks for sharing those pics, dogs look bad ( Y ) !!!


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> Great Lookin dogs!!! I love the buckskin female, she looks like she has some fire to her. That male dog you got looks like a great all around worker with a good head about him hows his listening? (voice commannd) ?? I've seen a dog I've posted a lil on here that looks more mastiff than myles, hes the colby/whopper dog I posted a few times.. LOL I love to see bandogs and see how the APBT bulldog strain is dominant and the conformation that comes with a sound high end dog just happens to be part of the package and you don't even have to pay attention to looks, simply breed and use the best workers and the dogs morph back into bulldogs.. Strong genetics there, I can see all the hard work of the breeder really has produced a couple of great dogs. Thanks for sharing those pics, dogs look bad ( Y ) !!!


Appreciate it Stan! Can be running full speed I give the command to sit his ass is touching the ground before he fully stops.. Superb up until theres animal within lunging distance then its all thrown out of the window..

LOL Seen some of that.. The face still has quite a bit of Dane features (size, eye, loose, muzzle), leg, wind combined with Bulldog endurance, overall structure is something of a Bulldog while head size and eyes are Dane.. Mentality all working stock Dane as a representation of the English Dogge boar hound.. Ain't nothing but a solid hound..


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

See .. the traditional danish hounds were somthing of the sorts of a greyhoundish bulldog bandogish type hound .. some were leggy bulldogs much like hammonds stuff others were giant unstoppable forces causing wreckage, some deptictions show em using 3 large hounds and others 5-7 smaller more bulldogish(apbt) type hounds and both have this greyhound type bounce to them.. WHERE did these dogs go? I here and read on a few german boards and seen some that looked a lot like your female but they are more hush about they're traditional danish hounds than they are APBTs. Kinda funny.


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

WOW KM! I had seen a few pics of your dogs in the past, but wow. They are some solid dogs. Love the Buckskin dog. She's a beauty.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> See .. the traditional danish hounds were somthing of the sorts of a greyhoundish bulldog bandogish type hound .. some were leggy bulldogs much like hammonds stuff others were giant unstoppable forces causing wreckage, some deptictions show em using 3 large hounds and others 5-7 smaller more bulldogish(apbt) type hounds and both have this greyhound type bounce to them.. WHERE did these dogs go? I here and read on a few german boards and seen some that looked a lot like your female but they are more hush about they're traditional danish hounds than they are APBTs. Kinda funny.


Most information lost really, it was like this with the English Dogge (Bandog type pre - Danish/Modern Dane) and Danish Boar Hounds for centuries yet around the early 1800s on is where most of the sources are in history, which ironically from that period on is a far more modernized Dane in appearance.. I'd say up until the late 1800s turn of the century, after this period it is larger, unhealthy sized dogs that once the AKC got a hold there was no turning back.

Very few breeders of the Great Dane continued breeding boar hounds in the 1900s, Bulldog was reintroduced in some lines to create a more performance based Great Dane over in Europe, AUS and US common for 50 - 50 crosses, 75 - 25 crosses as hog dogs but nothing consistent aside from a handful that keep their mouths shut in public eye.. Over in the US particularly due to various reasons, unmarketable for any breeder as its unaccepted AND not many out there can handle them or have use.

The English Dogge was essentially a Bulldog, at least thats my conclusion of my own findings.. One of the first Bandogs in true sense that developed directly into two Danish and GD. Stocky, 50 - 70 pound hounds with about any use selectively bred to DBH for a more direct purpose of boar hunting and protecting the pack, larger around 80 - 90 pounds which was about the size of the first GDs to foot on US soil. (90 - 120lbs; Smaller being the working stock and the larger being a more performance or pet type of build which was the type to continue)

I find random pieces through PED and history on other breeds that cross over back to these hounds which fill in more blanks, Bulldog AKA Bull Baiter AKA APBT is one of the heaviest cross reference.

The widely accepted grey hound, Irish wolf hound, Mastiff crossing theory i find little to no evidence for.. I believe the ED was a product of Mastiff and Bulldog, the bone, structure, purpose all fits. Grey Hound could have been introduced some where along the line especially would count for less bone and mass, more leg and wind.. However i don't believe it is as heavily based as what people might believe. Especially if you look at old paintings (and even modern pictures through euro working stock).

I have also found accounts of leggy, Bulldog - Mastiff type dogs being pitted in the mid 1800s over in England which based on language and a few paintings appear to be a slightly more bone ED which i don't believe is chance. The scripts are there.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Nah I agree, and I have found that the mastiff and greyhound come from the pit dog and not the latter.. The Egyptians noticed the high prey drive of those fighting dogs in trade and purified the coursing hound inwhich the europeans fell in love with in due time. All hounds go back to the pit dogs even the mastiffs if not back to bandogs from pit bulldog they come from the fighting dog of gaul aka the dogue de bourdeaux (original now extinct strain)

your dogs look german bred .. good workers


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> Nah I agree, and I have found that the mastiff and greyhound come from the pit dog and not the latter.. The Egyptians noticed the high prey drive of those fighting dogs in trade and purified the coursing hound inwhich the europeans fell in love with in due time. All hounds go back to the pit dogs even the mastiffs if not back to bandogs from pit bulldog they come from the fighting dog of gaul aka the dogue de bourdeaux (original now extinct strain)
> 
> your dogs look german bred .. good workers


Yep, Gaines foundation stock GD came from performance bred German breeder. Working stock but failed courage for PP, 140 pound GDs proven boar hounds crossed Bulldog back in the 80s, bred back to hopeful GD stock but kept the functional mentality that allowed for a more old type Dane. Once he got a hold of his 5 stock Danes, less than a decade achieved Danish type of GD without crossing back to Bulldog.. Proven stock bred created F1 and all rest you already know. :thumbsup:

If Wolfe Hound would have been crossed over i believe by the late 1800s would have resulted in a coarser, lengthier Retriever trail hound with the combination of grey hound.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Roman Era English Dogge









Danish Boar Hound type









DBH and Bandog sized Bay/Baiter type









A throw back to ED, heavy Bulldog crossing









Modernized GD


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Verrry cool!!! Awesome pics!!!!

I think most people forget that the first mastiff per say was the War dogs (roman depiction) that come from crossing the biggest russo/euro gray wolf with chinese/indian wolf the litter was brought back and then of course follow the fighting dogs from the normandy conquest on... also the strain of wolf mastiff that became the old world chow chow not this new fangled  They were 80-100lbs males great for hunting pulling carts and guard work the oldest dog in history still going today. Unique to know they are a wolf/mastiff and the chinese modeled them after the bear down to the blue tongue. I hunted with one as a kid and owned one as well; the one I owned was small 40lbs and that became the norm. The one I hunted with was 75lbs FEMALE!! who had one eye and killed everything from armadillos to coyotes and would bite your ass if you tried to touch her, or if you didn't live there and tried to touch somebody there. First hunting dog I had pleasure of going out with, last real Chow I ever seen. :rain: So the first mastiffs were verry wolfey and the snipey snouts of the danish hounds, sight hounds, and the terriers are just that a spitz type muzzle on a complete catch dog body. Brindle is also a reflection of the wolf forest pattern just like the bulldog/bandog stock its highly inbred from the get go all the way down to what is out there today. I love how my black/buckskin aka black/fawn brindle aka grey brindle hammonds dog, just dissappears in the forest, plains, and mtns.. Camo dog but the brindle was even kept apart from the rest of the stock for a while from what I've read they were different strains then they brought them together for the danish hounds which some were also used as german bear biters that evolved into todays rottweiller. Its all pretty dang cool how you can follow these dogs through history and pedigree and you mentioned. Put the pieces where they fit and voila~ ... Old world dogs right here and now! 

Myles looks pretty dang sound, however .. again: I like that gyp!!!


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> Verrry cool!!! Awesome pics!!!!
> 
> I think most people forget that the first mastiff per say was the War dogs (roman depiction) that come from crossing the biggest russo/euro gray wolf with chinese/indian wolf the litter was brought back and then of course follow the fighting dogs from the normandy conquest on... also the strain of wolf mastiff that became the old world chow chow not this new fangled  They were 80-100lbs males great for hunting pulling carts and guard work the oldest dog in history still going today. Unique to know they are a wolf/mastiff and the chinese modeled them after the bear down to the blue tongue. I hunted with one as a kid and owned one as well; the one I owned was small 40lbs and that became the norm. The one I hunted with was 75lbs FEMALE!! who had one eye and killed everything from armadillos to coyotes and would bite your ass if you tried to touch her, or if you didn't live there and tried to touch somebody there. First hunting dog I had pleasure of going out with, last real Chow I ever seen. :rain: So the first mastiffs were verry wolfey and the snipey snouts of the danish hounds, sight hounds, and the terriers are just that a spitz type muzzle on a complete catch dog body. Brindle is also a reflection of the wolf forest pattern just like the bulldog/bandog stock its highly inbred from the get go all the way down to what is out there today. I love how my black/buckskin aka black/fawn brindle aka grey brindle hammonds dog, just dissappears in the forest, plains, and mtns.. Camo dog but the brindle was even kept apart from the rest of the stock for a while from what I've read they were different strains then they brought them together for the danish hounds which some were also used as german bear biters that evolved into todays rottweiller. Its all pretty dang cool how you can follow these dogs through history and pedigree and you mentioned. Put the pieces where they fit and voila~ ... Old world dogs right here and now!
> 
> Myles looks pretty dang sound, however .. again: I like that gyp!!!


:cheers:

Black, brindle, buckskin.. Three most important, ideal coat colors for catch and guard/PP/war dogs.. Blends well in the environment and no prey or man will see a stealth hound coming until its too late.

Great Danes are often dismissed as their own type of dog rather than being grouped in with the Mastiff type of breeds.. Ironically, history can be directly traced back to beyond just about any other breed out there AND many working Mastiffs and Bandogs owe its existence to either GD or ED which in return owes consistency back around to the Bulldog.

One fault the first 100 years or so of establishing DBH is the narrow skull, muzzle and lack of usable muscle in the jaw area. Not particularly an advantage for catch, sniff trail and bay..Which is why in relative short time it can be seen a transformation from a narrow scull, muzzle with catch weight body to a more proportional, functional head..









Commonly referred to as Danes, Greve Otto von Bismarck shown here with his Danish hounds with structure borrowed through crossing back over to the Bulldog (some accounts BT) and very early APBT strains in the late 1800s went in to the few remaining DBHs to throw back into ED.. If you also note the amount of Bone and mass these hounds have, over all structure is very similar to some of the Bandogs today..which some of the performance GD strains over in Germany, Switzerland and England can be traced back to.









Breeding function all things must be accounted for and like the well documented APBT, Bulldog.. Point back to history and all the answers are in black and white.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

:clap: :goodpost: :clap:


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## Vilebeast (Feb 29, 2012)

To much information to store, ill process more of it tomorrow.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Few modern working stock;


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

Yeah! see if those dogs were being worked in the countryside and let lose on some boar~ewweeeeeee!!! Great specimen! Like seeing a REAL working rottie, tail and all.. so rare! Thanks man, Im saving this one.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> Yeah! see if those dogs were being worked in the countryside and let lose on some boar~ewweeeeeee!!! Great specimen! Like seeing a REAL working rottie, tail and all.. so rare! Thanks man, Im saving this one.


Rottie with tails?? Man, i think i've only seen 3 in person, But thats a whole 'nother discussion :thumbsup:


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

KMdogs said:


> Rottie with tails?? Man, i think i've only seen 3 in person, But thats a whole 'nother discussion :thumbsup:


(chuckles) you already know :rofl:


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

Great looking bulldogs! They are maturing nicely. Funny you mention a rottie with a tail FH... Our state police has two of them here in Massachusetts. I've seen them working them at local schutzhund trials. Definitely not the norm when it comes to the breed but the tails do act as a rudder for balance. I used to own an ACD with a tail....down south they like to dock the tails from what I've seen come here from the south through rescue groups.


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

Looking good partner.


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