# Cropped ears and the ADBA



## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

I am curious, do alot of ADBA judges pick natural ears over cropped or is this just a few selected judges that hate them? have any dogs with nice crops ever placed under any of them and if so, example photo of said dog would be great!


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## JayHawk (Apr 4, 2010)

There are alot of CH and GRCHs with cropped ears including GRCH VI Bronson 
I prefer natural ears and I am sure so do some judges (if this affects their picks only they can Know for sure) but a dog doesnt make GRCH VI by not placing very often

this thread should have pics of Bronson and GRCH Lizzy also cropped
http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/36268-post-picturs-your-dog-his-her-parents-3.html


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Most dogs in the ADBA have natural ears, Pre 1976 [] dogs had natural ears they were not cropped for fighting. Some dogmen did crop but most dogs were natural, cropping is cosmetic and not necessary in the breed. However I prefer cropped ears and all my dogs are cropped. There are judges who HATE cropped ears, Gary Hammonds is the first that comes to mind and is very vocal while judging he does not like cropped ears. If it influence's his judging, only he knows for sure but in general there should be no preference.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

JayHawk said:


> There are alot of CH and GRCHs with cropped ears including GRCH VI Bronson
> I prefer natural ears and I am sure so do some judges (if this affects their picks only they can Know for sure) but a dog doesnt make GRCH VI by not placing very often
> 
> this thread should have pics of Bronson and GRCH Lizzy also cropped
> http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/36268-post-picturs-your-dog-his-her-parents-3.html


I forgot about Boogieman's dogs. :roll: THEY DON' count! :rofl:
too sexy for their own good! haha



performanceknls said:


> Most dogs in the ADBA have natural ears, Pre 1976 [] dogs had natural ears they were not cropped for fighting. Some dogmen did crop but most dogs were natural, cropping is cosmetic and not necessary in the breed. However I prefer cropped ears and all my dogs are cropped. There are judges who HATE cropped ears, Gary Hammonds is the first that comes to mind and is very vocal while judging he does not like cropped ears. If it influence's his judging, only he knows for sure but in general there should be no preference.


Had to make sure as I remembered some of your dogs didn't place under one of the judges due to them having cropped ears, correct? was it Hammonds who was said judge?


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I don't know if they didn't place becuase of the ears but he sure was vocal about them being cropped.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Hammonds did place Earl however he was very clear of his dislike to the crops when we (Doug and I) entered the ring. Earl is damn hot though so he still brought home his 2nd place without his ears.

Hammonds also showed *A LOT* of interest in Xena and had she brought her A game and was showing some more spunk I am sure she would have placed under him. However she is very calm and was in no show condition. He came back and talked to her and looked her over several times. She plans to meet him againup: lol.

I know very well he didn't like it, but I do not feel it affected his judging. Now does it affect other judges.. I can't say as I have not met them lol.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

ugh, hopefully he wasn't bluntly rude when vocalizing his dislike for crop. Thanks for clearing that up, Lisa, Holly. who placed instead of Xena? I still don't understand how those girls didn't place. baffles me especially Crixus, I REALLY like her.
Anyways, I know this was a very stupid question, but couldn't help but be paranoid and even nervous since I will be cropping my wee ones ears and wasn't sure since I will be doing strictly ADBA.


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## Eric (Oct 21, 2010)

American_Pit13 said:


> Hammonds did place Earl however he was very clear of his dislike to the crops when we (Doug and I) entered the ring. Earl is damn hot though so he still brought home his 2nd place without his ears.
> 
> Hammonds also showed *A LOT* of interest in Xena and had she brought her A game and was showing some more spunk I am sure she would have placed under him. However she is very calm and was in no show condition. He came back and talked to her and looked her over several times. She plans to meet him againup: lol.
> 
> I know very well he didn't like it, but I do not feel it affected his judging. Now does it affect other judges.. I can't say as I have not met them lol.


Oh I remember reading about that in the thread about the Nor Cal ADBA show. I think in there it was mentioned that Hammonds said something along the lines of "What happened to this dog's ears?" regarding Earl.


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## Bruce TGPs (Dec 24, 2010)

The ears being cut is not suppose to come into play on judging a dog , Does it? Sure it does judges are human too. Personel preference always comes into play or only one dog would ever win.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

RileyRoo said:


> ugh, hopefully he wasn't bluntly rude when vocalizing his dislike for crop. Thanks for clearing that up, Lisa, Holly. who placed instead of Xena? I still don't understand how those girls didn't place. baffles me especially Crixus, I REALLY like her.
> Anyways, I know this was a very stupid question, but couldn't help but be paranoid and even nervous since I will be cropping my wee ones ears and wasn't sure since I will be doing strictly ADBA.


 When he came in the first time for judges choice, he asked "what happened to those dogs ears" and something along the same lines was asked to Doug.

I was not in the males so I don't know if he said anything again to Doug, but when I entered for the females there were 5 of us and my 2 girls cropped so he stated that "2 of these dogs had lost their ears".

In the females Bree took first (who is a Caragan dog) and she actually ended up finishing her well deserved CH title that weekend. The other dogs I do not know but I know one was a Jeep dog...lol. Thats all I know other than Bree.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

Eric said:


> Oh I remember reading about that in the thread about the Nor Cal ADBA show. I think in there it was mentioned that Hammonds said something along the lines of "What happened to this dog's ears?" regarding Earl.


...wow, Did he really say that?



American_Pit13 said:


> When he came in the first time for judges choice, he asked "what happened to those dogs ears" and something along the same lines was asked to Doug.
> 
> I was not in the males so I don't know if he said anything again to Doug, but when I entered for the females there were 5 of us and my 2 girls cropped so he stated that "2 of these dogs had lost their ears".
> 
> In the females Bree took first (who is a Caragan dog) and she actually ended up finishing her well deserved CH title that weekend. The other dogs I do not know but I know one was a Jeep dog...lol. Thats all I know other than Bree.


wow, just...wow. some people need to learn to hold their licker!

and big grats to Caragan's dog!


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

He also made some comments about dog training being bad for the show ring because they lack fire.... Not one of my fav judges especially if he is telling people not to train their dogs.... Does not look good for an ADBA judge to talk trash about dog training when the ADBA is trying to push the Safe Dog test. I know he has done a lot for the breed but that show was a little much IMO.

Yes ear crops can effect placement in both venues. ADBA the non cropped is more favorable and in the UKC cropped is favored.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

Sounds like it lisa...I would have been rather angry if I entered my dog in a show like that and not only have to hear the bull from the judge about it but in the long run have my dog over looked.
I will have to evaluate the crop vs un crop and make up my mind on what i want Phoenix to have.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

May be loss can teach you about how to glue the ears. To stay I'm place. I may do it with our next pup.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I glued Vipers ears and they came out great!
Rileyroo I will continue to crop my dogs even if some judges do not like it, it is personal preference and I like a cropped look.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

I thought about doing Ready's ears I think it is to late.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

I glued Bogart's ears but it didn't do much for him. His right ear's fold is slightly deformed so it folds over the top of his head because of that. I wanted to get his done BUT my ex told me no so I wasn't able to do it. Lisa, I love your dogs crops and Right now I believe after talking to the vet and seeing her portfolio that I am gonna go with the short with slight bell. I really like her work and I think Phoenix will look amazing with that style and if the crop causes her to take awhile to get her CH title then so be it. she will be doing a few other sports aswell so a simple crop wont effect other titles


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## 9361 (Jun 25, 2009)

Why aren't you doing any shows with the dogs you have?


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

Because one is spayed and does dock diving and the other one has Ataxia so he cannot work, PERIOD. I am adding an EXTREMELY reputable puppy to my yard because I can afford it and because I have done alot of research for a specific dog that works for me and my future goals so lets get back on track here with the OP and if you have any further inquires you can always pm me. I am always willing to answer any questions in regards to my animals. =)


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

Gary made it very clear that he did not like cropped ears, but I paid money to show my dog and get his judgment of Earl and that was part of his judgment. He wasn’t rude just very clear. When he came up to me in the ring the first thing he said was “What happened to this dogs ears?” I responded with “I believe a vet removed them.” To be fair Gary placed Earl 2nd and during the show weekend so did the other two judges Sharon Sunday and Robin Kuhns. Although Earl did win Judges Choice under Sharon and Robin. I spoke with Gary after the show and he said to bring Earl over and he’d give me and evaluation. Gary said that Earl is a solid 92 – 95 point dog. He felt that Earl was a little long in the femur and again didn’t care for his ears, but he really liked Earl’s conditioning. What caught me off guard was when Gary said Earl was lacking confidence in the ring. I told Gary I couldn’t disagree more with his assumption. I said all weekend long Earl never had his tail tucked or shied away from another dog or person and to me that is a very confident dog, but he also only barked twice at another dog. I told him Earl was extremely confident and is well trained and doing very well in Obedience. Gary said that Obedience training can be a disservice to a dog in the ring because the dog is cueing in on you rather than the other dogs. He said a dog doesn’t need to be going crazy doing back flips, but they need to show a strong desire and interest towards the other dogs. To be fair to Gary, when Robin Kuhns handed Lori the 2nd place ribbon on Sunday he said “ You have a really nice dog, but he need to show a little more fire. Keep doing what you’re doing.” Now that statement I agree with and Robin did not say anything regarding confidence.


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## PatienceFlame (Dec 22, 2009)

Elvisfink said:


> Gary made it very clear that he did not like cropped ears, but I paid money to show my dog and get his judgment of Earl and that was part of his judgment. He wasn't rude just very clear. When he came up to me in the ring the first thing he said was "What happened to this dogs ears?" I responded with "I believe a vet removed them." To be fair Gary placed Earl 2nd and during the show weekend so did the other two judges Sharon Sunday and Robin Kuhns. Although Earl did win Judges Choice under Sharon and Robin. I spoke with Gary after the show and he said to bring Earl over and he'd give me and evaluation. Gary said that Earl is a solid 92 - 95 point dog. He felt that Earl was a little long in the femur and again didn't care for his ears, but he really liked Earl's conditioning. What caught me off guard was when Gary said Earl was lacking confidence in the ring. I told Gary I couldn't disagree more with his assumption. I said all weekend long Earl never had his tail tucked or shied away from another dog or person and to me that is a very confident dog, but he also only barked twice at another dog. I told him Earl was extremely confident and is well trained and doing very well in Obedience. Gary said that Obedience training can be a disservice to a dog in the ring because the dog is cueing in on you rather than the other dogs. He said a dog doesn't need to be going crazy doing back flips, but they need to show a strong desire and interest towards the other dogs. To be fair to Gary, when Robin Kuhns handed Lori the 2nd place ribbon on Sunday he said " You have a really nice dog, but he need to show a little more fire. Keep doing what you're doing." Now that statement I agree with and Robin did not say anything regarding confidence.


Thanks for posting! makes a lot more sense. Now, when he said 'Lack' of confidence did he mean the dog lacked 'fire'? the desire to get at another dog or did he mean actual Confidence where he thought the dog looked shy or uncomfortable in the setting? and give me a break...A dog can tell the difference between 'WORK' and 'NOT' IMO training does NOT take away the dogs personality..so how can he say that is a disservice to the animals?

well, He doesn't sound THAT bad.. He just has his views on what he likes in the ideal apbt which I can understand. Though some of his comments I don't agree with and feel that it was not needed. then again that is JMO


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## SideKick (Jul 18, 2011)

Elvisfink said:


> the dog is cueing in on you rather than the other dogs. He said a dog doesn't need to be going crazy doing back flips, but they need to show a strong desire and interest towards the other dogs.


this is my problem with Gambit. My fault since I've discouraged crazy behavior toward other dogs. I don't care if he perks up and barks but I rather like my arm in my socket. 
On our walks he just looks the other way and keeps on going; at the shows I've noticed he focuses in on me or the crowd in order to ignore the other dogs.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

There's always a conflict of interest with me doing both ADBA and UKC. Terra just made it into the ADBA CH classes, and then I took her to a UKC rally event. She stunned the mess out of me by doing really really well in rally. But I've also never encouraged her to fire up. And I've actively _discouraged_ her starting nonsense with the dogs she shares space with. So I may have inadvertently stacked the odds against her making Grand, but I still have to live with this dang dog. LOL! ETA: I'm hoping she does eventually work out that when the other dogs are running their mouths at her, she can show off right back. I've seen her do it _once_ in the ring. LOL


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