# sadie at 5 months today



## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

...................


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## Bully_Boy_Joe (Jul 7, 2008)

Shes growing up nicely!


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

nice pic!!! what is she mixed with?


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

lol, she's not a mix.

Looking good hot blue mamma!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL @ bbb .. She's mixed with fire and ice ...  No she is apbt ... adba registered 24 lbs @ 5 months old ... And a fine blue speciman I must say so myself


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

They grow up quick dont they!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes they do!!! all the sudden sadie sprouted legs out of know where LOL I'll be posting some more pics of ember and simba tomorrow


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Great! I cant wait to see them!


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## Bleu Clair (Jun 14, 2008)

Awww, she's cute. I love the picture with her head tilted to the side (and her tongue hangin' out the side, lol), that one's my fav.


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

she looks great, don't you just want to tie a big logging chain around her neck?....LOL (just kidding)oke:


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL @ rolery ... she may get mad at me if I do that ... I do put her on the treadmill at least for now just to let her walk and get used to it for when the time comes to really work her :cheers:


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## roleary (Jan 11, 2008)

yeah, my six month pup loves the mill, a carpet mill, I actually try to limit his use for fear of injury to joints due to his young age, but I have come to the conclusion that five minutes or so couldn't hurt... and he appreciates it.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

roleary said:


> yeah, my six month pup loves the mill, a carpet mill, I actually try to limit his use for fear of injury to joints due to his young age, but I have come to the conclusion that five minutes or so couldn't hurt... and he appreciates it.


Right mine stay on for 5 minutes 10 at the max on slow walking speed ... They seem to like it though


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## money_killer (Apr 14, 2008)

shes pretty big for 5months old. nice


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## MetalGirl30 (Apr 15, 2008)

She is looking really good.

My dogs won't get nowhere near a treadmill. They avoid it like it is the plague or something.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks MetalGirl I wanted to get them started at least introduced to the mill early because I was afraid if I waited to long they might not go for it later on LOL


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## bnwalker2 (Sep 4, 2008)

Beautiful pup!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Thank You for the compliment :woof:


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## matias_pit (Jul 17, 2008)

beautiful girl you have there!!! loved her eyes...


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> nice pic!!! what is she mixed with?


This person evidently doesn't know what a APBT is. You never have anything sensible to say....go join a bully forum or something. :stick:

BTW, nice looking dog Sadie


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

hehehehehe ... Thanks Madbood


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## opaka (Sep 7, 2008)

nice blue girl !!!!!


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

Thought you may like websters perspective on a pitbull Saide....

Main Entry: pit bull 
Function: noun 
Date: 1930 
1 : a dog (as an American Staffordshire terrier) of any of several breeds or a real or apparent hybrid with one or more of these breeds that was developed and is now often trained for fighting and is noted for strength and stamina 
2 : an aggressive and tenacious person <a political pit bull>

Main Entry: American pit bull terrier 
Function: noun 
Date: 1950 
: any of a breed of dogs developed to combine the traits of terriers and bulldogs that have extremely powerful jaws and great strength and tenacity and that were originally bred for dog fighting -called also pit bull terrier


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

HAHA lets hear ya argue this one!


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

Tiller no one cares anymore. We all know you have bullies.

The debate has never been what a pit bull IS.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

HAHA and guess what bedlam my original posts were never intended to argue my breed. Looks like webster defines it all!  Thought you guys did your homework! HAHAHA


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

ROTFLMAO :rofl:... @ bbb .... I hate to break the new's to ya but the pitbull came long before 1930 ... Try the 1800's I am not going to argue with you tiller I already know what a pitbull is ... It's obvious that you don't ...you don't have to convince me or anyone else of your opinions if you think that webster's dictionary defines the apbt by all means believe what you will just don't go showing that to someone who really know's better trying to convinve them that an american bully is the same breed as the american pitbull terrier you may get laughed at.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

sadieblues you just cant admit defeat can you? HAHA i love bein right!


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

SadieBlues said:


> ROTFLMAO :rofl:... @ bbb .... I hate to break the new's to ya but the pitbull came long before 1930 ... Try the 1800's.


Yeah tiller, try doing some research before posting up a bunch of nonsense. The original bulldog or "pitbull" was bred long before 1930....in fact John Colby owned the modern day phenotype of "pitbull" in the late 1800s..and his son Louis still has the strain preserved. Pit bulldogs were used as "grippers" long before bull baiting and pit fighting. They were bred to be working dogs. No offense but I doubt your AmBully is capable of any real work...hell it probably considers breathing as work. Since you want to be technical.. the American Pit Bull Terrier is neither American in origin nor is it a true terrier. "pitbull" as well as "bulldog" is just a general name given that describes the purpose for which these dogs were bred.

Take my last post advice and go join a bully forum..


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> sadieblues you just cant admit defeat can you? HAHA i love bein right!


This right here just made you look childish and like an idiot.


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

LoL MSK :clap:


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

Don't worry T...... b/c I don't care what anyone says ignorance is not bliss and you my friend are not ignorant to what an APBT is supposed to look like or what it is and atleast when you don't know something you will admit it. Just take what bully owners think with a grain of salt 9/10 of the time because most still think their dogs are APBT even though their dogs couldn't touch a real APBT anyday.


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

BedlamBully said:


> LoL MSK :clap:


hehe couldn't help myself i'm not getting into this fray b/c i tend to get a little heated.


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

MSK said:


> Just take what bully owners think with a grain of salt


Sorry rephrase Just take bully owners who claim to have apbts opinions with a grain of salt.........


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for editing that lol


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

the definition was posted in 1930 and in 1950! Sorry guys im gonna believe a dictionary over a bunch of know it alls any day!


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

See what I mean when I speak on these type of things I get a little heated and then my sentences come out wrong and have to reexplain myself um so yea I'm done commenting on this one lol.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MSK said:


> Just take what bully owners think with a grain of salt 9/10 of the time because most still think their dogs are APBT even though their dogs couldn't touch a real APBT anyday.


HAHA what you mean by "couldnt touch a real APBT anyday"?


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

how can you argue back and forth with owners of real APBts? you're such a stubborn fool...i think this thread should be locked before I call this person a f#*king idiot....oops


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

LMFAO calm down MSK you really shouldnt get heated if you know your right huh?


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> the definition was posted in 1930 and in 1950! Sorry guys im gonna believe a dictionary over a bunch of know it alls any day!


LOL then if you don't believe us please believe the words of John Colby whom was one of the first men to import an APBT into the US.

The Pit Bull Terrier was made from the Bulldog and the old English White Terrier. It has been said that a cross of the old Spanish Pointer weas used, but this has never been confirmed to be authentic. The exact proportion in which each breed was used to produce the Pit Bull Terrier is not known.

During the Nineteenth Century when bull-baiting and dog-fighting were active sports, the bulldog was found to be too slow for pit purposes, hence the need for a dog with more speed and a good strong, punishing jaw.

This new breed met with success and was much superior to the bulldog for fighting in the pit. One of the first strains that was produced was noted for its gameness and fighting ability. One sire and his son were reputed to have won many battles and were undefeated.

After the bill was passed declaring bull-baiting and dog-fighting illegal, the Pit Bull Terrier was associated with the smartly attired young man about town, the prizefighters and tavern keepers.

Most of the impromptu combats were staged in cellars of the taverns or at some secluded rendezvous in a small village.

Little change has come about in the appearance of the Pit Bull Terrier. The most noticeable change that has appeared is the head. The present dogs lean more to the Terrier type than the bulldog type as was common among the early dogs of the nineteenth century.

The writer has seen strong characteristics crop out from time to time divulging their ancestors. The more common characteristics are bench legs, screw tail, undershot jaw and low station. Yet there has been produced an exact replica of the old English White Terrier, in the hide of a Pit Bull Terrier. Although these characteristics seldom appear, they are more commonly found in dogs that have been inbred.

~-~

In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, dog fighting and bull-baiting were very active sports in England. During the Nineteenth century, England passed a bill making the sports illegal. Soon after this bill was passed the Pit Bull Terrier started to disappear from the public eye, as no one felt a though he wanted to be known as the owner of a battle-scarred pit dog, due to the penalty the law prescribed for any one found guilty of fighting dogs in the pit. A few years later the breed seemed to revive and was given the name of the Staffordshire Terrier, by which the breed is still known today in England. However, when dog fighting was introduced into the United States, the old name of the Pit Bull Terrier stuck with the breed and it is the belief of the author that they will never be known by any name other than the American Pit Bull Terrier.

When the Pit Bull Terrier was intorduced into America, he was more commonly found to be owned by prize fighters, saloon keepers and habitues, sporting men and the like. From the start the breed earned an unjust reputation due to his fighting ability and the character of the owner. To this day he is still trying to live down an unjust and undeserved reputation.

At about the turn of the Twentieth Century the breed was fast becoming popular and the pit dog found his way into the homes of men from all walks of life. Dog magazines carried ads and illustrations of dogs that had earned a reputation in the pit and through this advertising many dogs were sold and fought for large sums of money.

Much of this popularity was due to the notoriety given Harry Krieger and his dog, "Crib," Cockney Charlie and his dog "Pilot," and Johnnie McDonald's "Grip," more commonly known as the Gas Housedog; McGough's "Bob," better known as "Bob, the Fool"; Connor's Bismark, "Rock and Rye," and many other famous dogs with a reputation proven in the pit.

Inasmuch as dog-fighting is an illegal sport, thousands of dollars are wagered each year at the pitside. As long as these dogs are bred, there will be pit contests to prove who owns the better fighting dog.

A few of the many fanciers of the past and present who were active in fighting and producing game pit dogs are: Tom O'Rourke, Hector Connor, Pat McDevitt, Johnnie McDonald, Ted Timoney, John Galvin, J. Edwards, Con Reardon, Jack Burke, the Farmer Brothers, Con Feely, Mike Redican, Noonan, Semmes, John P. Colby, George Armitage, William Shipley, Jack Wolf and Tom McGough. A few of the present day men that have been successful in producing game pit dogs are: Pete Donovan, Earl Tudor, Jim Williams, Al Brown, J. M. Corrington, Ham Morris, Joe Corvino, Walter Komosinski, Harry Turner, C. P. Delaney, Charles Smith and Harry Clark.

At the present writing the breed is advancing rapidly in popularity. The author predicts that within a few years there will be such a demand for game pit dogs for sporting purposes, that it will be beyond the production. Due to the fact that this breed has weathered the so-called depression that prevailed, is proof enough that there is a market for them, even though they have a bad reputation in the dog world. Dog fighting in the past two years has increased over fifty per cent as compared with the previous two years. Which proves that the sport still holds a fascination. New faces, new dogs, new breeders gain recognition each year, and the game is on an upward trend that will see no equal.

By John P. Colby

Go check out Colby's American Pit Bull Terriers this is what true APBTs should look like. These dogs blood has been around for over a hundred years.


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

The reason is said 1930s-ish is because thats when the AKC opened its registry to APBT's provided they could change the name of the dog to the American Staffordshire Terrier
Dog Owner's Guide Profile: The American Pit Bull Terrier

Do your homework don't just believe the dictionary its not a reliable DOG source.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

it doesn't matter MSK....you can't tell tiller anything. we are not webster, so how could we know anything about APBTs?


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> HAHA what you mean by "couldnt touch a real APBT anyday"?


What I mean put them in agility, weight pull, any kind of sport an APBT will come out the winner. I Bully couldn't hang with a real APBT in any event.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

dictionary 




Main Entry: dic·tio·nary 
Pronunciation: \ˈdik-shə-ˌner-ē, -ˌne-rē\ 
Function: noun 
Inflected Form(s): plural dic·tio·nar·ies 
Etymology: Medieval Latin dictionarium, from Late Latin diction-, dictio word, from Latin, speaking 
Date: 1526 
1 : a reference source in print or electronic form containing words usually alphabetically arranged along with information about their forms, pronunciations, functions, etymologies, meanings, and syntactical and idiomatic uses 
2 : a reference book listing alphabetically terms or names important to a particular subject or activity along with discussion of their meanings and applications 
3 : a reference book giving for words of one language equivalents in another 
4 : a computerized list (as of items of data or words) used for reference (as for information retrieval or word processing)


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

MSK said:


> What I mean put them in agility, weight pull, any kind of sport an APBT will come out the winner. I Bully couldn't hang with a real APBT in any event.


amen! :cheers:


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

LOL Tiller your ignorance to believing the dictionary proves to me you couldn't have a mindset over a Middle School grade level. You are just repeating the same thing basically showing us what a dictionary is I believe anyone with a 3rd grade education can tell you what a dictionary is.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MSK said:


> What I mean put them in agility, weight pull, any kind of sport an APBT will come out the winner. I Bully couldn't hang with a real APBT in any event.


HAHA ok my dogs sire is a champion weight puller. Pulling 13,000 lbs! what can yours do? just curious


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

i got a word for you tiller.....research. you may wanna try it some time


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MSK said:


> LOL Tiller your ignorance to believing the dictionary proves to me you couldn't have a mindset over a Middle School grade level. You are just repeating the same thing basically showing us what a dictionary is I believe anyone with a 3rd grade education can tell you what a dictionary is.


LOL then why dont you believe it? i think a 3rd grader would know that a dictionary is non fiction!


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

and.....?
What does YOUR dog do?


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> HAHA ok my dogs sire is a champion weight puller. Pulling 13,000 lbs! what can yours do? just curious


that means nothing....doesn't mean your pudgy dog will be champed


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MADBood said:


> i got a word for you tiller.....research. you may wanna try it some time


Did mine! now do yours! you think that you guys teamin up on me is gonna make me believe your BS? DOUBT IT!


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> HAHA ok my dogs sire is a champion weight puller. Pulling 13,000 lbs! what can yours do? just curious


OKAY you wanna know what mine can do well you tell me WHAT CAN YOURS DO??? Just because that dogs sire can do it doesn't prove that yours can do it nuff said. I'm just starting int he show stuff but I know my APBT circle and know where my dogs come from b/c I ummm whats the word.... RESEARCHED. I have no accomplishments on any of my dogs NO. But, I will you can bet on that but I can tell you my dogs have enough heart and drive and willingness to be anything I want them to be period.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MADBood said:


> that means nothing....doesn't mean your pudgy dog will be champed


Great bloodlines brother! Great bbloodlines!


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> Did mine! now do yours! you think that you guys teamin up on me is gonna make me believe your BS? DOUBT IT!


impossible...if you researched you would realize that your dog is an AmBully.


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

I don't care if you believe it or not. Just been trying to educate you on the correct terms for what your dogs is. You should just man up to it and claim your dog for the bully he is and be proud of it. He may be a great dog do great in WP and all sort of events but he is what he is regardless of what you try to pass him off as. And ANYONE who is educated in the breed will recognize him for a bully the moment 'razors edge' leaves your mouth. AND watchdog for that matter since its become somewhat of a bully line. Old school watchdog is very hard to find anymore.

I am done arguing with you. So do your little victory dance or whatever to make yourself feel better, and let the rest of us get back to properly promoting the breeds. APBT & AmBullies.


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> Great bloodlines brother! Great bbloodlines!


LOL great bloodline have the tendancy to throw flukes just as quick as an average bloodline just because you have and "outstanding pedigree" dont make your dog nothing. The dog makes the papers not the papers make the dog.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MSK said:


> But, I will you can bet on that but I can tell you my dogs have enough heart and drive and willingness to be anything I want them to be period.


At 4 months im already to believe my dog will have enough heart and drive to be anyhitng i want him to be!


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> Great bloodlines brother! Great bbloodlines!


chances are that only one pup out of the litter was able to have what it takes to be champ....being as your great bloodlines consist of non selective breeding... the chances of you having a champ puller is slim to none


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MADBood said:


> impossible...if you researched you would realize that your dog is an AmBully.


Again brother read the definition of a APBT!


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MSK said:


> LOL great bloodline have the tendancy to throw flukes just as quick as an average bloodline just because you have and "outstanding pedigree" dont make your dog nothing. The dog makes the papers not the papers make the dog.


Your absolutly right my dog has a great pedigree which i see him following in his ancestors footsteps!


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> At 4 months im already to believe my dog will have enough heart and drive to be anyhitng i want him to be!


Honestly and I'm telling you straight I don't think you have the knowledge of the breed yet to know whether or not you have a champ and also that dog is just a pup you wont know anything for sure about the dog until atleast 1 yr old.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MADBood said:


> chances are that only one pup out of the litter was able to have what it takes to be champ....being as your great bloodlines consist of non selective breeding... the chances of you having a champ puller is slim to none


actually the whole litter of my dogs sire are champion weight pullers!


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MSK said:


> Honestly and I'm telling you straight I don't think you have the knowledge of the breed yet to know whether or not you have a champ and also that dog is just a pup you wont know anything for sure about the dog until atleast 1 yr old.


I actually have great knowlage of the breed this is my 3rd pit! done ALOT of research and it didnt come from a "message board" lol


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

tiller, it is obvious that you are closed minded and we are all here to learn from each other...you on the other hand refuse to shut up and listen...there is noone here that you listen to so you are not learning anything.....so go to a BULLY forum and talk all that uneducated BS...they might even believe you.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MADBood said:


> tiller, it is obvious that you are closed minded and we are all here to learn from each other...you on the other hand refuse to shut up and listen...there is noone here that you listen to so you are not learning anything.....so go to a BULLY forum and talk all that uneducated BS...they might even believe you.


Closed minded? when you cant even believe a dictionary i think thats closed minded!


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> Closed minded? when you cant even believe a dictionary i think thats closed minded!


No body said they didn't believe the dictionary we just plainly stated you can't use the dictionary for everything especially when it comes to dogs b/c honestly it is not a good dog reference plus that definition wasn't put in until many years after the APBT was established only it hadn't been recognized by AKC yet.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> Closed minded? when you cant even believe a dictionary i think thats closed minded!


sorry..i don't use a dictionary unless i need help spelling or to find a definition for word I don't know.


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

I don't know anyone who honestly uses a dictionary that is past the 5th grade.


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## tiller222818 (Jul 29, 2008)

MSK said:


> No body said they didn't believe the dictionary we just plainly stated you can't use the dictionary for everything especially when it comes to dogs b/c honestly it is not a good dog reference plus that definition wasn't put in until many years after the APBT was established only it hadn't been recognized by AKC yet.


The f***in dictionary is a refernce book! HAHA you guys crack me up! lol im outta here imma take my pit for a walk! Peace


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

A reference book for definitions NOT history. nuff said


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

:clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> Right bone head. you dont now the defintion of American Pitbull Terrier! so look it up lemme know wut it reads!


MY DOGS IARE DEFINED IN MY YARD...NOT IN A DICTIONARY


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

too bad you can't ban a person for being ignorant...ha ha

I have actually made myself stupider just engaging in this thread. lol


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

I think my IQ level has went down massively lol


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## Bully_Boy_Joe (Jul 7, 2008)

Here are some links American Bully Information and Pictures, Am Bullies Blue BloodLines if its not to long of a read for you lol, i think you should checkem out.


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## smokey_joe (Oct 14, 2005)

Sadies is growing up to be beautiful. 

I don't know how all this started, but yeah...

"There is none so blind as he who will not see..."


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## Kat&Kumho (Sep 10, 2008)

Sadie growing up so pretty..


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks Guys for all the compliemnets sadie really appreciates them. Tiller you can keep arguing but the fact is your arguing with yourself If you ever want to learn about the apbt and it's history a dictionary is not a place to go. I never bashed your dogs for being bullies I was just under the assumption based on a few comment's you made about other member's dogs that maybe you were misinformed about the apbt breed so I tried to help. Obviously your not mature enough to handle an adult converstaion I also refuse to argue with ingnorance there is just no point. But if you want to read about the american pitbull terrier history here is a good cross reference that explains the standard of the breed and how it all became the apbt as we know it today. Your more then welcome to believe whatever you want. But like I said people who stand true to the apbt conformation know the difference between an apbt and a bully.

Introduction

Sixty years ago a delightful gang of kids romped across movie screens accompanied in their antics by their faithful dog Petey, a sturdy white pooch with a colored patch over one eye. Petey performed a remarkable array of tricks to help the kids in and out of scrapes -- all in all, he was the consummate childrens' pet.
The original Petey was Lucenay's Peter, a purebred dog registered as an American Pit Bull Terrier with the United Kennel Club and as one of the 50 original Staffordshire Terriers accepted into the American Kennel Club. Whichever breed name is claimed for Petey, one thing is certain; today this dog could not be kept within many city limits without facing arrest and euthanasia. American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are outlaws by city ordinance as vicious dogs.
The American Pit Bull Terrier has a long history as a dog of the common man, and it is from his basic stock that the AKC's AmStaffs and Staffs developed. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

History

In 1835 the British Parliament outlawed bull baiting, a sadistic gambling game in which bulldogs were used to attack and harass bulls brought to market with the dubious intention of tenderizing the meat. The dog would assault the bull, avoid the stomping hooves and slashing horns, grab a tender nose or ear, and hang on until the bull collapsed. Commoners and royalty alike sought diversion from the violence and diseases of their day by attending these bloody spectacles until a public outcry forced Parliament to take a stand.
Once bull baiting was banned, dog breeders who appreciated the fierceness, courage, and tenacity of the bull dogs turned their attentions to breeding dogs for dog fighting. They began with the bull dog, mixed in some terrier blood, and produced the Bull and Terrier, a dog that met all of their expectations. The Bull and Terrier was bred for aggression to other dogs, unrelenting bravery, a high pain threshold, a willingness to fight to the end, and an affection for people.
Bull and Terrier dogs came to the US in the early 1800s as all-around farm dogs and frontier guardians. Samuel Clemons featured a pup of this breed in his short book The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County.
The United Kennel Club recognized the Bull and Terrier Dog as the American Pit Bull Terrier in 1898. Buster Brown shoes put its mascot in every shoe with the image of Tige, an American Pit Bull Terrier, to enhance its image as a sturdy, dependable shoe. RCA used Nipper, a pit bull of unknown ancestry, to illustrate the clarity of sound emanating from its phonograph -- after all, it could fool the loyal pit bull into thinking he heard "his master's voice" in person. The breed was used to illustrate American neutrality without fear in 1914, the toughness of Levi jeans, and as a"defender of Old Glory."
The AKC eschewed breeds called "pit bulls" until 1936, when it recognized the American Pit Bull Terrier under the alias Staffordshire Terrier, named after the miners of Staffordshire, England, who had a hand in developing the breed for the fighting pit. The name was changed in 1972 to the American Staffordshire Terrier to distinguish the breed from the Staffordshire Bull Terrier of England, the ancestor of the American dogs, which was recognized by AKC in 1974. The British version of the dog is 14-16 inches tall and weighs up to 45 pounds. The American cousin is 18-19 inches tall and weighs up to 80 pounds. UKC's American Pit Bull Terrier is preferred to range from 30-60 pounds with females generally, but not necessarily, smaller than males.
Staffs, AmStaffs, and APBTs produced by responsible breeders are bred for temperament. Many dogs of these breeds are therapy dogs; some do quite well in obedience, and one -- Bandog Dread HIC, VB, SchH 1, CD -- even has a herding title. Another, Solomon J. Grundy, is a service dog for quadriplegic owner Arvid Kuhnle of Saskatoon, Canada, and Bullitt, was shown on the 1985 Easter Seals poster with his owner, Gordy Ranberg of Genesee, Michigan. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what happened?

The American Pit Bull Terrier and its AKC cousins had a well- deserved reputation as a loyal and trustworthy family pet in the early years of this century, but of late has been severely castigated as a vicious, man-killing beast, worthy of banishment from the cities, considered guilty with no chance of proving innocence in any case.
"Pit bull" is a generic and derogatory term that encompasses any of several breeds of dogs or crosses on those breeds. Pit Bull fanciers can be divided into several camps: conscientious breeders of the AKC-registered duo who often deny kinship of their dogs with the APBT; ethical breeders of the APBT who face squarely the slander heaped upon them by ignorant neighbors; and unethical breeders of all three breeds who still indulge in dog fighting or promote aggressive temperaments for illegal purposes. Dog fighting rings still exist--it's only been a few years since a ring with national ties was busted in New Richmond and Blanchester, Ohio--and inner city drug dealers often use the dogs to guard their drug supplies and cash.
To further complicate matters, those who still breed for fighting are not as careful to preserve the dog's strong instinct to bond with humans as the early breeders did. So, today "pit bull" is a pejorative term that strikes fear in the hearts of many and leads to the spreading of urban legends about dogs with locking jaws that exert 20 thousand pounds of pressure, unstable breed temperament, and overwhelming human aggression.
In fact, the well-bred American Pit Bull Terrier is a family guardian and protector; an intelligent and obedient pet; a sweet, even-tempered dog that serves well as a help-mate to handicapped owner and friend to small children; and a healthy, hardy dog that complains little and offers much to his family.
Unfortunately, it has been more important for legislators in many jurisdictions to prove to constituents that they have "done something" about community problems. Spurred on by media accounts of "pit bull" attacks described in lurid detail, these councils and commissioners have banned pit bulls in all their forms from their communities. Never mind that the owners are the ones at fault for harboring a vicious dog; never mind that few of these dogs actually bite people; never mind that the breed and its crosses are not always easy to identify. Just ban them.
So, many shelters do not offer pit bulls or any dog that might be part pit bull to be adopted. Insurance companies cancel house insurance if a pit bull is in residence. Neighbors mistake everything from Boxers to Pugs as "pit bulls". And those criminals who used pit bulls as protectors of their illegal activities switch to Akitas or Rottweilers. 
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*The standard

The United Kennel Club standard for the American Pit Bull Terrier is rather sparse. The dog is square and powerful with a blocky head, prominent cheeks and jaw, and taut, muscular body. He has a deep chest, and a short, glossy coat of any color. His ears may be cropped or not. Size can range from 30- 50 pounds for females and 35-60 pounds for males. Although they are from the same stock and meet the same criteria as the AKC American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terriers cannot be registered as an AmStaffs, but AmStaffs are admitted to the APBT registry.*


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

tiller222818 said:


> Thought you may like websters perspective on a pitbull Saide....
> 
> Main Entry: pit bull
> Function: noun
> ...


Quoting a dictionary is about as retarded as believing everything you read in a news paper!
Okay, Tiller, what you don't seem to realize is that by that definition above your dog is not APBT. RE had been found out, they used Mastino blood in their program. Want me to define that for ya? It means it wasn't a bulldog. The Mastino Italiano, Neo Mastiff, Mastiff Napoletano, is NOT a bull dog or a terrier. So, you just called out your own dog, Buddy.


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## Kat&Kumho (Sep 10, 2008)

+1 for reddog


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Read Homie



American Bully


Although its roots are firmly grounded in the crossbreeding craze of the mid-1990's, the American Bully is currently being promoted as a new pure breed apart from the American Pit Bull Terrier, under whose name it has been bred and sold for the past 15 years or so. Originally a result of crossing the APBT, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldog, Olde English Bulldogge, Bullmastiff, Dogue de Bordeaux, English Bulldog, Neapolitan Mastiff and various bandogges with the aim of developing a larger and heavier Pit Bull, this American creation has been very successful in gaining acceptance and popularity in its homeland, all while its breeders firmly maintained that their dogs were pure American Pit Bull Terriers. As with most bandogge programmes, the initial gain in size resulting from crossing a bull-n-terrier type dog with a larger mastiff breed quickly disappears in subsequent generations and the American Bully stock soon suffered from its breeders' desire to maintain their lines, with most present-day examples of the breed being much shorter than their ancestors. Even though considered an abomination and an insult to the great APBT breed by most Pit Bull enthusiasts, the lines which would eventually become what is now a separate breed carrying the American Bully name had arguably surpassed its original small gamebred parent breed in popularity, while helping create more confusion and misinformation about the APBT itself in the eyes of general public and the media. Unlike a true American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Bully hadn't been created for the fighting ring, although many of these dogs have been used for amateur level street fights by their ignorant and oftentimes criminal owners who believe them to be actual Pit Bulls, but the greatest blow the APBT breed has been dealt has been the promotion of these dogs which were commonly misrepresented as actual Pit Bull Terriers as good property guardians and protection dogs in the United States. With the massive popularity of what was the "alternative Pit Bull" type at the time, coupled with a long streak of indiscriminate breeding of these dogs who often ended up in the wrong hands, the incidence of attacks on humans with the APBT receiving the blame and its current media-fueled notoriety as a dangerous breed has also been steadily rising.



With the constantly increasing pressure on the promoters of the "new" Pit Bull by the lovers of the original APBT over the unjustified bad reputation being attached to what was once regarded as an ideal family pet, traditionally known to be harmless to humans and a bona fide American legend, as well as the growing difficulty of proving that these "alternative" strains hadn't been developed by crossing other breeds into the APBT, the breeders of the American Bully finally decided to "step away" from the APBT breed and establish a new breed out of their existing stock. Unfortunately, there is still a great number of owners and breeders who continue to maintain that their dogs are proper Pit Bull Terriers, whether their pedigrees are falsified or not. While the push for the separation of the American Bully from the APBT is most definitely a positive thing, many promoters of the new breed claim that no other breeds apart from the AmStaff and the APBT have been used for its creation.



Apart from being much heavier, having greater bone mass, larger heads and wider chests than real American Pit Bull Terriers, the majority of the dogs belonging to the American Bully group also lack the superb athletic qualities, stamina and temperament of their parent breed. Certainly more of a bulldogge than a bull-terrier, both in appearance and personality, the American Bully is a massive, yet sufficiently agile and territorial dog with good guarding instincts and watchdog capabilities. Although it can be stubborn at times, the breed is quite trainable and makes a good companion for experienced owners. Not as confrontational with other dogs as the APBT, this powerful American creation needs responsible handling and supervision nonetheless, as well as a great deal of socialization with people, due to its background involving breeding away from traditional APBT character traits. One of the most popular activities for the fans of the American Bully has always been the sport of Weight Pull, for which the breed had basically been created according to some and still excels in today, but it's also gaining acceptance in the world of Personal Protection for its drive and physical strength. The breed type isn't fully set yet, with some dogs resembling animals of the Olde English Bulldogge type and others being similar to smaller American Bulldogs and oversized Staffordshire Bull Terriers in appearance, but the breed Standard does exist and the future selection based on its points may bring a greater deal of uniformity for the American Bully. A handsome dog, this powerful breed tends to have muscular, stocky bodies, with short backs, broad heads and wide, short muzzles with reasonably loose lips and well-developed jaw muscles. The ears can be cropped or left natural, while the tail must remain unaltered. The nose may be black, blue, brown, liver or red, depending on the coat colour. The coat is short, smooth and flat, most commonly seen and sought after in blue, grey and red colours, but is accepted in any colouring. Average height for the modern American Bully is around 21 inches, but taller dogs can still be encountered.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

APBT
This legendary American breed was developed from various lines of old fighting bulldogs and bullterriers, such as the Irish Bulldog, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Dudley Terrier, Irish Staffordshire Bullterrier, English Bullterrier, Scottish Blue Paul, English White Terrier and others in the 1800's. A number of breed fanciers maintain that the Pit Bull Terrier contains no terrier blood at all and that it is in fact the original British bulldogge, but these claims are poorly substantiated and oftentimes due to confusion in regards to the history, genetics and the appearance of old bulldogs, as well as their use and working traits. Without the terrier influence, there would be no bullterriers and while this should be clear enough for all, further explanation would require the understanding that the bulldogs used in the creation of bullterrier type dogs were mostly working crosses or bandogs themselves, specialized cattledogs whose only requirement for being labeled as "bulldogs" was to be a mastiff-type dog, preferably of supposed Alaunt ancestry and bred to control and (when needed) bait livestock, usually bulls, both for work and entertainment.



Just like the old bulldogs were not necessarily a "breed" by modern definitions and they obviously didn't look like the English Bulldog of today, the terriers used in the establishment of the bullterrier category were certainly not lap dogs or show competitors as most of the terrier breeds are presently, but were in fact hard, rugged and intense workers, whose tenacity, agility and stamina, as well as willingness to fight beasts and other dogs any place and any time while disregarding their own safety was their main distinguishing trait from other hunting breeds in old Britain and what was also admired by those who owned fighting bulldogges. So admired were these characteristics that the idea of having a fighter which posessed the physical strength, loyalty and ferocious personality of a bulldog and the agility, intelligence and tenacity of a terrier was enough to revolutionize the way old-time "sport enthusiasts" approached their breeding practices and experiment with different crosses between the two types and attempt to establish a strain of combat-ready dogs superiour to both the bulldog and the terrier, as well as to all others. Regional preferences and personal tastes helped shape this new stock of fighting dogs and the percentage of blood from the parental types (as well as the actual strain of each) varied to an extent across the land, but the fact remains that the praised bullterrier category was founded on the basic principle of crossing bulldogges with terriers. Even the old names for the type of dog which would later evolve into the American Pit Bull Terrier reveal the "recipe", with labels such as "Half and Half", "Bulldogge Terrier", "Bull and Terrier", "Staffordshire Fighting Terrier" and so on. Some of these regional differences resulted in the formation of distinct breeds, some of which still exist today, while others were unsuccesful or simply unfortunate ventures of their developers.



With the English and Irish bull-n-terrier breeds such as the English Staffordshire Bull Terrier, English Bullterrier and the Irish Staffordshire Bullterrier going through the standardization and refinement process, the dogs introduced to the United States were largely of unknown origin, with some exceptions; many of these dogs simply being companions of immigrant families, while others were brought specifically for the "sport" by Irish, Scottish and English folk from a variety of social backgrounds. Depending on the area in which these immigrants were situated, the dogs that accompanied them soon served as a foundation for a regional variety, with the "Yankee" type being more common in the north and the "Rebel" type forming in the south of America, but even if the southern dogs were heavier and more "bulldoggy" in appearance than their smaller and leaner northern cousins, they all contributed to the establishment of a single breed (albeit retaining a fairly wide phenotypical range) which was the American equivalent of the working bullterriers of Britain, the American Pit Bull Terrier.



As unsavory as their common "job" may have been, it is exactly the fighting pit which was instrumental in the remarkable success that the breed as a whole experienced in the United States, because these dogs were tested for the traits which define the Pit Bull Terrier and by following strict requirements in regards to a stable temperament, ease of handling and training, while slowly becoming more uniformed in appearance and breed characteristics which go hand-in-hand with all of the other expectations still placed on the great APBT breed by its true admirers. By breeding for the elusive trait of "gameness" which was inherited from old terriers and improved upon in the APBT population, as well as by culling cowards and man-biters from the gene pool, the breed developers were able to create a dog which truly differs from all other breeds and is deservedly one of the most cherished legacies of old America.



The A.P.B.T. is still seen by many as the same thing as the American Staffordshire Terrier breed, while others are convinced that crucial temperament and appearance differences are a solid basis for separate recognition. Just like the early APBT evolved from the non-Show population of the original English Bullterrier breed, the AmStaff was established by selecting dogs from the APBT's non-performance stock. While the working pit dogs have never been bred for size or appearance, their non-fighting counterparts in the common American bull-n-terrier population were becoming more refined and popular Show dogs, resulting in the practice of breeding a type which is very different from that employed for the original purpose-bred "sport" animals, disregarding "gameness" and fighting ability, thus establishing a slightly larger, slower and softer subgroup in the breed, which eventually became a well-loved breed on its own, the American Staffordshire Terrier. It should be noted that many Pit Bulls are registered as AmStaffs and are allowed to compete in Conformation Shows under that name.



The name "Pit Bull" is unfortunately sometimes used for any breed or mongrel that resembles these great dogs, creating additional confusion. In the early years, the American Pit Bulldogge and the American Pit Bull Terrier were seen as cousins and not the same breed, but although some fanciers still respect old rules, the majority of modern owners and members of the general public do not differentiate between them at all. Rural working dogs have generally always been larger than their fighting counterparts in the big cities, essentially forming two distinct breed variants. While old farm bulldogges of the United States eventually became a separate breed presently recognized as the American Bulldog, the original "in-between" variety known as the American Pit Bulldog has survived as a sub-type of the greater APBT breed. Being primarily working dogs, there hasn't really been a strong emphasis on physical appearance, strict measurements and proper type requirements of the Pit Bull population until fairly recently, at least not before the dogs started being exhibited in Shows.



A breed of immense physical power and rarely matched tenacity and prey drive, the American Pit Bull Terrier is first and foremost a fighting dog. Any other claim is simply ridiculous. Due to its popularity and overbreeding, many strains posess unstable temperaments and overly vicious tendencies. This is unfortunate, because it resulted in worldwide bans and social condemnation of the breed. A well bred, pure American Pit Bull Terrier is harmless to humans and a loving family dog, while retaining its gameness and courageous character. This is not to say that only a fighting Pit Bull is a good one, because the "sport" of dog-fighting is rightfully illegal and frowned upon. But, a Pit Bull Terrier should always be a dog that is ready and able to fight, that's what makes it a Pit Bull Terrier.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

As much as the backyard breeders and the criminal element are responsible for the demise of this breed, so are the modern commercial breeders that are trying to turn the Pit Bull into something it is not, by breeding out its dog-aggressive nature. This results in a a dog without its personality, but with a strong prey drive, which is often aimed at humans, unlike the game-bred dogs which pose no threat to people. It is both the reckless overbreeding and these attempts to breed the APBT away from its true self, that regretably result in well known media reports about attacks on humans, oftentimes children. Even though it seems that there is no room for Pit Bulls in today's society, this is still one of the most popular breeds in America, as well as worldwide. A little known fact is that the primary reason for the very formation of the United Kennel Club (UKC) by Chauncey Bennett in 1898 was the official registration of the American Pit Bull Terrier breed. An even lesser known fact is that the early UKC was also in charge of overseeing testing contests, specifically keeping records and regulating pit fighting events, as well as providing official referees for those matches, before eventually succumbing to the societal pressure in the 1940's and fully distancing itself from the "sport" which helped build it. While UKC quickly evolved into a "regular" registry, the famed American Dog Breeders Association (ADBA) which was founded in 1909 by Guy McCord to this day remains the only registry taken seriously by the majority of APBT enthusiasts, because it not only examines the dogs' purity and physical conformation, but also tests their agility, stamina and strength, primarily through weight-pulling excercises.



Just like in the past, hunting is a popular venue for fanciers of the breed who value the working qualities of the Pit Bull to enjoy a legal and traditional activity which tests the abilities of their dogs. Another popular sport is Weight-Pulling, but a fair number of breed representatives used for this activity are quite large, some of them suspected to come from mixed lines, just like those used for Protection trials, many of which are working bandogge crosses. While a pure APBT can make a good watchdog, it should never be used as an attack dog or expected to actually engage in combat with people, but some neophyte "fanciers" disregard the breed's true heritage and old rules, turning their dogs into vicious "man-stoppers", most of which contain foreign blood anyway. But once one of these man-made monsters attacks or even kills someone, the general public and especially the media disregard the fact that the dogs in question are not even true American Pit Bull Terriers and instead choose to further demonize the entire breed based on actions of these mongrels. Regardless of breed type and the duty it is expected to perform, a pure APBT should be an energetic, playful and devoted family dog, posessing an even temperament and great intelligence, turning to conflict with intruders on its property only as a last resort. Many lovers of the breed often say that burglars could freely steal everything in the house guarded by a pure APBT and even take the dog with them because of the great love of humans these dogs are known for. Those that want a perfect protection dog should look elsewhere and not expect a breed that built its early reputation on the fact it is harmless to people to be something it isn't.



This beautiful and impressive American breed needs responsible and firm handling, as well as early socializing around people and animals, especially strange dogs. There is a variety of sizes and appearance preferences, from small lightweight fighting bull-n-terrier dogs to those naturally larger bulldogge-type Pit Bulls that are taller and bulkier, oftentimes used for Weight-Pull duties and hunting. There are even some giant Pit Bull strains, resembling old working bulldogges more than they do the original bullterriers, but it should be noted that even though traditionally a difference has been made between true Pit Bulls and true Pit Bull Terriers, based on size and the percentage of terrier blood, many oversized mastiff-type Pits seen today come from "enriched" bloodlines, usually resulting from introducing Dogue de Bordeaux, American Bulldog, Olde English Bulldogge, Bullmastiff, Presa Canario, Cane Corso and common bandogge types to the gene pool. It should be noted that a small numbers of breeders of the "alternative" strains are supporting the idea and have proclaimed a new breed to enforce the separation under the American Bully name, this idea being fully endorsed by the true fans of the traditional purebred APBT. Regardless of type, all varieties of the breed should be muscular, strong and agile, with well-boned bodies, strong necks and broad heads. Red-nosed specimens are highly regarded by some breed fanciers, but the majority of Pit Bull Terriers are darkly pigmented, although albino dogs exist as well. The ears may be cropped or left natural, in which case any ear-type is allowed. Some fighting and hunting dogs with docked tails existed in the past, but the majority of modern examples are unaltered. The short, hard coat comes in all colours, solid or particoloured, without any preference for a specific colouring, but many modern commercial breeders base their programmes on a single colour, especially if it is "rare" or trendy. Average height for the Pit Terrier type is around 18 inches, with game-bred dogs usually being smaller and lighter, but the "Bully" variety can get much taller and heavier.


Taken from MD


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

tiller222818... you have been warned, check your PMs.


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