# question



## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

my APBT is an eli dog with gator and i am wondering if anyone had any advice on wat i should breed him to to get the most game dog i can.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

what do you mean with "game"? and what are your wants for a "game" dog?


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

the definition of game that i am using is a dog that keeps going even when he gets tired, in any legal way. I want a dog with heart and the will to push him/herself when doing anything.


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Do you have the pedigree for your dog so we have more of an idea of what were looking at. What working purposes are you needing out of your dog?


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Yes post a pedigree please, no offense but you sound like you have no idea what you are doing. My guess is you shouldn't be breeding anything


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

904bullys- im waiting on my pedigree right now, it is in the process of being sent to me, the working purposes im looking for in a dog is confromation and spring pole hanging.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD- i will post my pedigree as soon as i can. i am a bit of a newbie so if u can please school me on what to do or how to do it, please do.


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## 904bullys (Jan 8, 2012)

Who did you get your dog from? Have you seen the pedigrees for the damn and sire? Are you trusting the breeder soley from word of mouth. what working titles do the dam and sire have? conformation is not a working title. You stated your new at this and thats OK but you shouldn't breed a dog you know nothing about. That said even if you did have the finest apbt on the planet doesn't mean YOU should breed it. What if it mates to absolute crap of a dog. From the sounds of things you are getting waaay to ahead of yourself.


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

Nicks-Chance said:


> my APBT is an eli dog with gator and i am wondering if anyone had any advice on wat i should breed him to to get the most game dog i can.


technically there is only 1 way to prove a dog is game and its not legal in this country. I think you might mean a good working dog, one that will work and work and work until you quit, not the other way around. My advice to you is to find a good breeder that already has the kind of dogs your interested in and learn from them. It should be years and years of research before anyone decides to breed. Stick around and you will learn tons and get to know a feel for what we are talking about.

There is a working dog sub forum on here, if your interested in checking out some of those posts, you just need to ask as admin if you can have access.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Nicks-Chance said:


> 904bullys- im waiting on my pedigree right now, it is in the process of being sent to me, the working purposes im looking for in a dog is confromation and spring pole hanging.


That ain't work, that is a show dog.. The APBT OR Bulldog isn't a show dog, thats what the AST is for..


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> That ain't work, that is a show dog.. The APBT OR Bulldog isn't a show dog, thats what the AST is for..


The APBT isn't a show dog? That's weird I show mine in conformation shows all the time.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

904bullys said:


> Who did you get your dog from? Have you seen the pedigrees for the damn and sire? Are you trusting the breeder soley from word of mouth. what working titles do the dam and sire have? conformation is not a working title. You stated your new at this and thats OK but you shouldn't breed a dog you know nothing about. That said even if you did have the finest apbt on the planet doesn't mean YOU should breed it. What if it mates to absolute crap of a dog. From the sounds of things you are getting waaay to ahead of yourself.


What does it matter what working titles a man's dog has before he breeds them. So one man should feel the need to report his winning to another man, why is that?


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## ames (Jun 6, 2010)

I don't think it was about Reporting to someone I took it as explaining there is a difference in conformation and working dogs. then explaining if you don't know you should not breed. 

I feel like this convo has been there done that lol but some people feel showing an APBT bred for looks makes it an AmStaff. I think they are obviously 2 seperate breeds and can be shown as such. Some feel even though papers say it's an APBT by blood if it was bred for the show ring it's not a true APBT. What makes it hard is there are some dogs used in conformation and are also working dogs so it's a fine line. In a way I feel since there is no legal way to prove you have a true APBT then all you have to go on is bloodlines and a great bulldog. But I feel this has been discussed many times. Or maybe it's just because I was reading people debating it elsewhere. It also depends on who you talk about it with since is such a heated topic and people have strong opinions on all sides of the debate lol


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

I have about 20 BULLDOGS 2 of them just happen to be built correctly.


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## motocross308 (Oct 5, 2010)

:goodpost:


ames said:


> I don't think it was about Reporting to someone I took it as explaining there is a difference in conformation and working dogs. then explaining if you don't know you should not breed.
> 
> I feel like this convo has been there done that lol but some people feel showing an APBT bred for looks makes it an AmStaff. I think they are obviously 2 seperate breeds and can be shown as such. Some feel even though papers say it's an APBT by blood if it was bred for the show ring it's not a true APBT. What makes it hard is there are some dogs used in conformation and are also working dogs so it's a fine line. In a way I feel since there is no legal way to prove you have a true APBT then all you have to go on is bloodlines and a great bulldog. But I feel this has been discussed many times. Or maybe it's just because I was reading people debating it elsewhere. It also depends on who you talk about it with since is such a heated topic and people have strong opinions on all sides of the debate lol


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

SECD said:


> The APBT isn't a show dog? That's weird I show mine in conformation shows all the time.


I"m not going to get into it since it has been discussed plenty on this site, not what this thread is really about... However the APBT was developed, created, instilled with one function and ability in mind.. Solid temperament, structure, etc of your "performance stock", "show stock" or what have you is owed to the "old days".. A Bulldog IS a working dog and the whole reason for the AST existence is that of the show ring.. Wanted a Bulldog that could be shown and be more civil in that type of scenario.. Structurally accurate and bred to conform..

If you want to have more conversation about this you can PM me, start a new thread or find one with a similar topic.. Otherwise, i'll leave it at that.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

I will leave it alone as well. I'm just stating the fact if I want to show my true bulldogs in a conformation ring I can do that as well. Just because I decide to prance them around the ring doesn't make them any less of a "BULLDOG". Your right there is alot of credit owed to the old days as well as owed now! Without keeping the tradition today/these days the old days don't make a damn, you know that.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

904bullys said:


> Who did you get your dog from? Have you seen the pedigrees for the damn and sire? Are you trusting the breeder soley from word of mouth. what working titles do the dam and sire have? conformation is not a working title. You stated your new at this and thats OK but you shouldn't breed a dog you know nothing about. That said even if you did have the finest apbt on the planet doesn't mean YOU should breed it. What if it mates to absolute crap of a dog. From the sounds of things you are getting waaay to ahead of yourself.


 I got my dog from an individual breeder out of Kansas City, MO. The damn is a pure bred eli dog. dont haved the pedigree available at the moment but have seen them, just waiting on puppy papers right now. the sire is gator/chinaman. i trust my breeder but have also seen papers to back it up. both the damn and sire are proven working dogs. i agree someone with little experience around dogs shouldnt be breeding them. but i have some experience along with the help of others around me.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

ames said:


> technically there is only 1 way to prove a dog is game and its not legal in this country. I think you might mean a good working dog, one that will work and work and work until you quit, not the other way around. My advice to you is to find a good breeder that already has the kind of dogs your interested in and learn from them. It should be years and years of research before anyone decides to breed. Stick around and you will learn tons and get to know a feel for what we are talking about.
> 
> There is a working dog sub forum on here, if your interested in checking out some of those posts, you just need to ask as admin if you can have access.


thanks for the advice. i will take a look at the working dog sub forum.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> The APBT isn't a show dog? That's weird I show mine in conformation shows all the time.


I agree thank you. :cheers:


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## versatile (Apr 23, 2012)

Nicks-Chance said:


> I got my dog from an individual breeder out of Kansas City, MO. The damn is a pure bred eli dog. dont haved the pedigree available at the moment but have seen them, just waiting on puppy papers right now. the sire is gator/chinaman. i trust my breeder but have also seen papers to back it up. both the damn and sire are proven working dogs. i agree someone with little experience around dogs shouldnt be breeding them. but i have some experience along with the help of others around me.


if they were proven working dogs you wouldn't be asking what pedigree to breed them with. you would be looking for a style, jaw strength, wind, gameness, whatever your dog was missing, or whatever you wanted to build upon.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Post the pedigree of the parents of your dog, or grandparents.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [260833] :: BARKER'S SCOOBY DOO
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [251733] :: FRAMPTON'S JADA


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

versatile said:


> if they were proven working dogs you wouldn't be asking what pedigree to breed them with. you would be looking for a style, jaw strength, wind, gameness, whatever your dog was missing, or whatever you wanted to build upon.


my dogs bloodline already has eli, gator, and chinaman. i have already crossed with negorino too. just looking for some insight. as soon as i can post my pedigree i will. my damn and sire are all winded dogs and have hard mouths, just alittle leggy


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> Post the pedigree of the parents of your dog, or grandparents.


dont have that available but i can post another one of mt dogs pedigrees, that is similar to my pup,


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [260833] :: BARKER'S SCOOBY DOO
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [251733] :: FRAMPTON'S JADA


Ive had some dogs outta wildside and they are great dogs, hard biters, good lookin. I know that anything with bourdeax is good too, but that is third and fourth generation back on your pedigree, regardless, great lookin dogs and pedigrees.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Our Jada bitch is leggy but a straight ace. Nigerino was an Eli dog, is your Chinaman stuff through Frisco?


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Nicks-Chance said:


> Ive had some dogs outta wildside and they are great dogs, hard biters, good lookin. I know that anything with bourdeax is good too, but that is third and fourth generation back on your pedigree, regardless, great lookin dogs and pedigrees.


:snap:So everything off Floyd's yard was good? I love that old man, he is very nice and a cool ass old man but nobody has ever produced dogs and every one be good. I guarantee those two dogs I posted are some of the best individual dogs in the world!


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

I'll tell you what, If your dog is half of what Jada is I will give you 5 grand for her.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

SECD said:


> I'll tell you what, If your dog is half of what Jada is I will give you 5 grand for her.


I don't know your dog so i ask, what makes Jada inferior through your own eyes? Everyone looks at dogs differently and since you brought it up im interested in what your response will be..

PEDs don't make the dog, just another method of "proving" to others you are feeding what you say you are.. Genetically, it can tell one the direction of which the pups function was instilled, among others however game dogs produce curs, curs produce game dogs.. You have to put your hands on the dog, work the dog or see the dog in action to fully understand what the dog can do, be defined by in terms of ability.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> Our Jada bitch is leggy but a straight ace. Nigerino was an Eli dog, is your Chinaman stuff through Frisco?


Yes, my bitch, Slingshot is threw "miss frisco", first generation. also first generation- Garners Earl, Garners frisco, on the bottom side is alot of battendorf, plumbers alligator second generation too.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> I'll tell you what, If your dog is half of what Jada is I will give you 5 grand for her.


My dog outta wildside was tampa red. his blood line consist of sire- wildsides vader, damn-wildsides venom, all wildside on top and bottom, if you want to know more just ask, but in my opinion that speaks for its self. both damn and sire were very stocky hard mouth dogs. 5 grand wont touch that dog.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Nicks-Chance said:


> Yes, my bitch, Slingshot is threw "miss frisco", first generation. also first generation- Garners Earl, Garners frisco, on the bottom side is alot of battendorf, plumbers alligator second generation too.


Your pup now is Alligator in the second generation is not possible, also Frisco was the most over bred junk dog of any breed to ever walk the earth. Nothing to brag about bro. PM me or call me and see what can touch what lol.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> Your pup now is Alligator in the second generation is not possible, also Frisco was the most over bred junk dog of any breed to ever walk the earth. Nothing to brag about bro. PM me or call me and see what can touch what lol.


Im talkin about my bitch slingshot, who is three, not my pup. i agree that frisco was bred alot, but
still threw some really good dogs, alot of grand champion game dogs.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

You might talk your dumb dumb bs to others, but not to me lol. Post a ped and we will talk. How old is your pup? Gary don't even have pups bred that close off Alligator anymore.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> You might talk your dumb dumb bs to others, but not to me lol. Post a ped and we will talk. How old is your pup? Gary don't even have pups bred that close off Alligator anymore.


fair enough, as soon as i can i will post a ped and then we will talk, you obviously arent as smart as you think you are


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> You might talk your dumb dumb bs to others, but not to me lol. Post a ped and we will talk. How old is your pup? Gary don't even have pups bred that close off Alligator anymore.


you do realize im not talkin about my pup, im talkin about my three year old bitch, slingshot


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm a hell of a lot lot smarter than I give myself credit for. The last thing I call myself is smart man. You can go back on these threads since this site was made and I still have the bulldog knowledge of 70 year old men. That is because I didn't come on here from jump street talking like I knew everything. If I bred a poodle to all the dogs Tom bred Frisco to my dog would be at the top of the ROM list. I could breed any dog on my yard half as my times as he did and surpass any dog he has ever seen, bottom line. As well as any man could do with half a brain.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Nicks-Chance said:


> you do realize im not talkin about my pup, im talkin about my three year old bitch, slingshot


Post a pedigree of Slingshot! I believe you are just on here pulling people's strings


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Your 3 year old grandson of Alligator is at least 16 years old lol.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> Your 3 year old grandson of Alligator is at least 16 years old lol.


lol, ok, will see how smart you are, not on here to mouth or talk shit, just a convo, pics will be here soon


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Nicks-Chance said:


> my APBT is an eli dog with gator and i am wondering if anyone had any advice on wat i should breed him to to get the most game dog i can.


Matter of fact you say your dog is a Gator bred lol post Gator's ped, can you even do that? When you really want to learn ask for help!


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

SECD said:


> Post a pedigree of Slingshot! I believe you are just on here pulling people's strings[/QUOT
> Post a ped of Slingshot he is three come one!


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

You have been handed enough chances, post Slingshit's pedigree


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> You have been handed enough chances, post Slingshit's pedigree


yes maam, oh and why do u have that ugly fuckin mutt as ur pic, you do know this is a pitbull forum right, just askin since u cant spell slingshot right.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> You have been handed enough chances, post Slingshit's pedigree


look at my profile pic. that is my pup chance.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

Nicks-Chance said:


> yes maam, oh and why do u have that ugly fuckin mutt as ur pic, you do know this is a pitbull forum right, just askin since u cant spell slingshot right.


Sorry Redog, go ahead and ban me. Stupid fuckers like this doesn't need to own or act like they have real bulldogs! I try and try to help idiots like this but it never works out. Here is my name, number, address, and website. contact me bitch. You sound like Mike Norrod lol. Home - Claddagh Kennels
If you are referring to my son it's you life fuck boy


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

This is like watching a pathetic school girl fight.. Who cares what Nicks is feeding, if you aren't paying the vet bills, feed, keeping, etc than whats it to you? Its the internet, people can claim just about anything and provide all kinds of "proof", hung papers, fake peds, real peds, etc.. Not one of them will give you the answer of if the dog has the ability to be worked and is proven as such..

Nicks, if you have a ped and want to post it, do it.. Otherwise its all in the beholder, anyone can pass judgement..

Not everyone is open about their hounds on the internet for a wide variety of reasons, myself included.. Is what it is.

I'm not defending anyone here because i think its pointless, take it for what its worth.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

To fucking stupid to post a pedigree but you trust your breeder, I'm putting on a conformation show on in Chillicothe Ohio in a few weeks, please come out. Here it is by the way bitch. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [110] :: (CRENSHAW'S) RODRIGUEZ' GATOR (4XW) you would have a much better chance of owning a grandson off him.


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## SECD (Jan 17, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> This is like watching a pathetic school girl fight.. Who cares what Nicks is feeding, if you aren't paying the vet bills, feed, keeping, etc than whats it to you? Its the internet, people can claim just about anything and provide all kinds of "proof", hung papers, fake peds, real peds, etc.. Not one of them will give you the answer of if the dog has the ability to be worked and is proven as such..
> 
> Nicks, if you have a ped and want to post it, do it.. Otherwise its all in the beholder, anyone can pass judgement..
> 
> ...


I viewed your posts as well when you first showed, you are just as much as a clown. You have as much knowledge as my 6 year old!


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> Sorry Redog, go ahead and ban me. Stupid fuckers like this doesn't need to own or act like they have real bulldogs! I try and try to help idiots like this but it never works out. Here is my name, number, address, and website. contact me bitch. You sound like Mike Norrod lol. Home - Claddagh Kennels
> If you are referring to my son it's you life fuck boy


lol, think what you will, but if you honestly think your little temper tantrem scares me you are funny, i am just going to end this convo by saying grow up alittle will ya, and when did i ever say anything abot ur son dumbass. oh and "fuck boy", good one. ill take a look at ur website.


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> I viewed your posts as well when you first showed, you are just as much as a clown. You have as much knowledge as my 6 year old!


I agree completely, I will have a ped up as soon as i can. and if you all dont believe me, that is perfectly fine, i could care less, just having a good discussion


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

KMdogs said:


> This is like watching a pathetic school girl fight.. Who cares what Nicks is feeding, if you aren't paying the vet bills, feed, keeping, etc than whats it to you? Its the internet, people can claim just about anything and provide all kinds of "proof", hung papers, fake peds, real peds, etc.. Not one of them will give you the answer of if the dog has the ability to be worked and is proven as such..
> 
> Nicks, if you have a ped and want to post it, do it.. Otherwise its all in the beholder, anyone can pass judgement..
> 
> ...


I agree completely, I will have a ped up as soon as i can. and if you all dont believe me, that is perfectly fine, i could care less, just having a good discussion


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> To fucking stupid to post a pedigree but you trust your breeder, I'm putting on a conformation show on in Chillicothe Ohio in a few weeks, please come out. Here it is by the way bitch. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [110] :: (CRENSHAW'S) RODRIGUEZ' GATOR (4XW) you would have a much better chance of owning a grandson off him.


how do u post a ped, have it on paper but not on computer lol


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

Nicks-Chance said:


> how do u post a ped, have it on paper but not on computer lol


lol, i guess this convo is over ?


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

there is a dog show may 12th here in sedalia MO, i will be there with my dogs, your welcome to come


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## Nicks-Chance (Apr 21, 2012)

SECD said:


> I'm a hell of a lot lot smarter than I give myself credit for. The last thing I call myself is smart man. You can go back on these threads since this site was made and I still have the bulldog knowledge of 70 year old men. That is because I didn't come on here from jump street talking like I knew everything. If I bred a poodle to all the dogs Tom bred Frisco to my dog would be at the top of the ROM list. I could breed any dog on my yard half as my times as he did and surpass any dog he has ever seen, bottom line. As well as any man could do with half a brain.


wow, really going to belittle Tom Garner, who's next,you better than Bobby Hall and Mountain Man too big shot


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## versatile (Apr 23, 2012)

SECD said:


> Sorry Redog, go ahead and ban me. Stupid fuckers like this doesn't need to own or act like they have real bulldogs! I try and try to help idiots like this but it never works out. Here is my name, number, address, and website. contact me bitch. You sound like Mike Norrod lol. Home - Claddagh Kennels
> If you are referring to my son it's you life fuck boy


your dogs look good.


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## Firehazard (Dec 4, 2009)

You said your pup was garner and gator, then you said you had battendorf and alligator stuff.. Well Battendorf alligator strain is down from a dog they had litter mate to a Hammonds dog down from Alligator, as well as using Limeys stuff and going back to Hammonds they created BIG CATCH DOGS you can find them at TEXAS HEAT Kennels. There is no pure alligator and Mr Hammonds has the heaviest alligator bred dog there are. Battendorf is good stuff I reckon but I got Hammonds stuff myself so I see no reason to use it. Alligator is not Gator .. Plumbers Alligator .. Rodriguez Gator..

People talk  thats what people do and being one of those people you got pulled into it. Look its real simple; 11 bucks gets a good copy from Kinkos on a disk or flash drive you wanna bring in. Then you have your peds on hand for digital purposes. OR find our your parents of your dogs and post them because we can find just about any dog that has been in the database and has been cached.

This bitch Slingshot aka Shotise ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [674] :: SLINGSHOT & HOOSIER'S SHOTSIE was bred to a hammonds dog down from zack once; other than that she was bred to Frisco every time. Most of the offspring were bred back into Garner heavily.. SO put up your parents of your dog or put up your ped. FYI Wildside had some real good stuff they also had cold dogs that wouldn't fetch a ball. The best Wildside dog I've seen is CH Nino.. The other is Ch CHewy(love that dog) I'm not much on that (wildside) stuff although they do know how to put a dog together its just not my cup of tea. I like the pure hargroves they had and I like the pure mtn stuff they tapped into heavily but again, what wildside is as a strain has so many building blocks outside of source the dogs have no consistency among the lay men as they are just matching wildside peds and not paying attention to the dog. Best of Luck...... Love to help you out but you probably need to find a mentor or if not someone you can pay for expert services  However there are several on here just a precursor warning: this is not a game dog forum, if you want to talk about working dogs there is that venue; check through the site and you'll find what your looking for as far as conversation, GPB is a place where anyone with a dog that gets stereotyped "Pit Bull" and all bulldog/terrier breeds off of the "Pit Bull" of yesteryear. We have AST, SBT, APBT, AB, Bandogs, BT, DDB, and the list goes on as far as owners and dogs posted up here at GPB. This forum is dedicated to education. :welcome: to gopitbull.com


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