# Sarona & Hemphill



## PitSavy (Sep 19, 2012)

Can someone tell me on these bloodlines please 


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## PitSavy (Sep 19, 2012)

Wilder/Hemphill 


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

What info are you looking for?


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## PitSavy (Sep 19, 2012)

Just basic info. 


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

Sarona Kennels (Mary Sunderman) Based her kennel basically off a two, or three way cross of
Hemphill Geronimo II X Clouse Staber X Eli (through gr ch Art). I owned several dogs from Sarona kennel, Mary was real good people, she would not tolerate a human aggressive dog, culled with the best of them! I preferred her black nosed dogs usually through Sarona Hang Tough x Sarona Motor Head.
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [5697] :: SARONA HANG TOUGH
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [355825] :: SARONA'S MOTORHEAD *AKA* HAMMERDOWN MOTORHEAD
But one of her most popular dogs, (as far as looks goes) was Sarona Trouble
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [369893] :: SARONA'S TROUBLE
Hemphill/ Wilder where good friends and for a while carried the exact same blood, even shared dogs. All based off of OFRN lines.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

PitSavy said:


> Wilder/Hemphill


Over bred yard sh**ers. 
When Jake grew older he crossed them with Red Bone Coonhound to retain the color.
He admitted this to many people. 
They have been known to produce dogs with widows peak. Which disqualifies them in the OFRN Registry. 
While the Hemphill dogs were once good dogs, the Wilder strain is garbage. 
Unless you just want a pet.

The only legit breeder of Hemphill dogs can be found at Old Family Kennels. 
OLD FAMILY KENNELS |


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

dday said:


> Sarona Kennels (Mary Sunderman) Based her kennel basically off a two, or three way cross of
> Hemphill Geronimo II X Clouse Staber X Eli (through gr ch Art). I owned several dogs from Sarona kennel, Mary was real good people, she would not tolerate a human aggressive dog, culled with the best of them! I preferred her black nosed dogs usually through Sarona Hang Tough x Sarona Motor Head.
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [5697] :: SARONA HANG TOUGH
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [355825] :: SARONA'S MOTORHEAD *AKA* HAMMERDOWN MOTORHEAD
> ...


The only blood Wilder/Hemphill shared were the dogs Jake got from Robert. 
Jake was a peddler.

I have heard nothing bad on Mary.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Geo I was wanting to see what you would say I am still trying to educate my self on the ofrn. It is difficult because so many have went in to many directions with the blood.


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

This topic, wherever one may go, always stirs a hornets nest. 
With the OFRN strain you literally have two types, so to speak.
The first is the true type, bred the same way they have always been, before and after the 1976 Animal Welfare Act.
These breeders are fewer and fewer, and not many sell to the public.
The other came in the 80's, and beyond. The "color" only breeders, size only breeders, etc. These are the peddlers' posse, looking for a quick fix (easy money from those who lack knowledge.) 
Many OFRN dogs have been peddled over the years. Even called "RARE," LOL.
When it comes to the "widow's peak" topic, ask any defender of them to name a Champion Pit Dog.
There are NONE. They may use Carver's Ironhead as an example, but one, he was not widow's peak, nor OFRN.
Widows peak is when a dog is masked and the hair changes color at the tips. Some have black hairs, which disqualifies them from being OFRN.
There were no widows peak dogs until the mid 80's.
Since they have produced no Champions, why would anyone want them? Color? IDK.

Btw, when I mentioned Old Family Kennels, I forgot to say that is the only place you can get Hemphill dogs that are available to the public.


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Yeah I saw that time be honest I would have little to do with any one I have seen with the dogs not my cup of tea. I have found so little that is honest blood. But I do like roof educate myself on what is out their. Gotta scout the other teams lol. Any way I will continue to educate. I see a lot of the blood way back with the lighter dogs an so on but the stuff I like down from theirs mixes of lines so...


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

Another thing people forget is that when a foundation breeder dies, his TRUE bloodline dies.
Doesn't matter if I have "Centipede" or "Bruce's Jerry" or "Corvino's Shorty and Gimp" back in my dogs' peds.
The parents are the door a pup enters the world in,
while the Great Grandparents and Grandparents are the 8 Master artists.
A pup comes out like them, not the parents. 
That is the down side of the Pedigree Breeders. Just because it looks good, doesn't mean a thing. Anything past the first 14 doesn't really matter much. 
What have they done today?
Hence the saying, "Good dogs are where you find them."
But the % rate of proven dogs comes from tight line bred families of dogs, not the crossings. They are far more consistent. 
When people cross regularly, they are always gambling. Some bloodlines cross well with others, but not all.
But the family dogs are where the real winners are, with their own school of genetics kept close together.

*"The test of a family is time."~Joe Corvino*


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## Rudy4747 (Nov 29, 2009)

Very true. Many people put to much stock into lines but yeah I do see how it helps to have a base from the same line as long as the dog you are using is from good dogs, as well as being good it self.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

Goemon said:


> Over bred yard sh**ers.
> When Jake grew older he crossed them with Red Bone Coonhound to retain the color.
> He admitted this to many people.
> They have been known to produce dogs with widows peak. Which disqualifies them in the OFRN Registry.
> ...


LOL; even though I agree with you for the most part, I was trying to not be so brutal as there are members on here with Wilder dogs.
I subscribed to Bloodlines, and the Gazzett for many years in the 80's, and you are right the Willder dogs where peddled heavy, with many byb's. 
The "Sarona" line of dogs where not true OFRN dogs, even though many of Mary's dogs where red/red. Mary was good, honest people, who always attempted to produce good dogs. In fact she would get offended if you insinuated she bred for color. Actually "Sarona Trouble" is in the pedigree of Gr.Ch. Virgil through "Colby's Cajin Queen"
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [11116] :: GAMBLER'S VIRGIL (5XW)


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## Goemon (Jun 27, 2012)

dday said:


> LOL; even though I agree with you for the most part, I was trying to not be so brutal as there are members on here with Wilder dogs.
> I subscribed to Bloodlines, and the Gazzett for many years in the 80's, and you are right the Willder dogs where peddled heavy, with many byb's.
> The "Sarona" line of dogs where not true OFRN dogs, even though many of Mary's dogs where red/red. Mary was good, honest people, who always attempted to produce good dogs. In fact she would get offended if you insinuated she bred for color. Actually "Sarona Trouble" is in the pedigree of Gr.Ch. Virgil through "Colby's Cajin Queen"
> ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [11116] :: GAMBLER'S VIRGIL (5XW)


LOL....

The good thing about the true OFRN strain is that no matter how they are bred, they ALWAYS turn out RED.
No color breeding involved in that regard. 
I have seen so called Wilder dogs with black, which betrays the paper hangers....


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## doughboi (Nov 10, 2012)

So is the Sarona bloodlinw washed down or just wasn't that good to start?Is there anybody still breeding with Sarona or hemphill


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## Kenaii (Dec 22, 2011)

It's very hard to find any Legit OFRN Dogs that haven't been watered down or just flat out ruined. 
Lots and I mean LOTS of UKC People have the Sarona and Lar-San stuff, so I would start going to UKC shows if you want some of that blood.
Stay Far Away from anything with Camelot in the ped though...


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## Saint Francis (Jun 2, 2010)

Good OFRN isn't too difficult to find...if you know where you're looking.


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## doughboi (Nov 10, 2012)

Kenaii said:


> It's very hard to find any Legit OFRN Dogs that haven't been watered down or just flat out ruined.
> Lots and I mean LOTS of UKC People have the Sarona and Lar-San stuff, so I would start going to UKC shows if you want some of that blood.
> Stay Far Away from anything with Camelot in the ped though...


Why you say stay away from Camelot? And har far can you go down a ped before a bloodline is washed out or doesn't count has low percentage or just doesn't count anymore?


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## atzalon (Nov 12, 2012)

Breeding a game dog is far more complicated than breeding for any other trait. Gameness is a resessive trait takes far more time, research and work to find and reproduce. A scatter breeding Might preduce a game dog but it will be quirk, not the norm. Breeding for color ,size,or even a name is the easy way to go and the way most people will take. THAT IS WHY THE OLD BREEDERS LINES WERE SO IMPORTANT TO THE BREED.


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## MOJO215 (Dec 27, 2012)

To find any good hemphil/wilder blood that's pure and produces good hounds won't be that easy. Because not to many people breed pure dogs that much anymore and if you do find some one. That says that it is make sure that the dog is DNA TESTED to prove it and then hold on to it and. DO right be it and breed more than you can handle


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## DSJ (Dec 25, 2012)

> Widows peak is when a dog is masked and the hair changes color at the tips. Some have black hairs, which disqualifies them from being OFRN.
> 
> I'm new on this site and i was reading the reply on "widows peak". Does anyone have a picture of ofrn with this.


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## Aynjelia (Dec 30, 2012)

*Nothing*

Nothing to post, no photos. Adopt a pit bull.


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