# American Pit Bull Registry



## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Has anyone been to, seen, heard of this website?

http://www.pitbullregistry.com/index.html

They are asking for money to "register" your pit, not to mention, if you go to the colors page, they claim: "The Merle Pit Bull is the rarest and the demand for this variety is rising quickly. At the American Pit Bull Registry we are lucky to have many Merle Pits registered and are able to provide several pictures of Pit Bulls with Merle genetics. "

Many of them also have blue eyes.

Now I thought that these were serious faults and indicators of having been cross bred. And yet they claim to have registered merle pits?

On that note, several months ago, I was taking Loki to PetSmart to get his puppy shots and a woman had this obvious mutt, but he was all over blue merle w/ one blue eye and get this, a curly tail- think husky curly, and semi- long furred (the tail, not the whole dog). Someone asked her what kind of dog he was and she claimed he was a pure Amstaff. I mean, who do they think they are fooling?

Now I have no problem with someone who wants a mixed breed, but let's not pretend our dogs are something they are not.


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

APBR is kinda funny. You can register but it's worthless, makes back yard breeding a little easier. That sucks, but at the same time the site is a nteworking tool(not just for byb). They have organizations in place to rehome and/or foster pits. There's some useful info for the novice but there's also useless crap. All in all, I wouldn't recommend that site to anyone who is trying to learn something factual!


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Yeah, they're pretty grody. I visit their classifieds every now and then for a laugh, or if I need a reason to get pissed off. :roll:


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

They make it easier for BYB to peddle pups to buys who don't know any better and get APBR "papers" on the puppies. They register just by photo and are a huge joke. It is the same as me sending you papers saying your dogs is pure when I have no idea lol..


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## reddoggy (Jan 31, 2008)

Hmm, Joe... This looks like a pit Bull but I don't really know.

Well did they send the money?

Yeah...

Well then it's pure bred, send the papers quickly, before they figure us out!!!


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

:rofl: That about covers it.


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## advocatekennels (May 8, 2008)

:cheers: All of you are SO right about them. I once called an add in a paper locally to see about this guys pups. They told me APBR and I asked if they were registered with anything else and he was like, "well, we were gonna AKC them but I dont really know how to." That was just a big red flag to me for BYB. Then he went on to tell me that he is real good friends with the creator of APBR in Antioch and how much stuff they do. You could probably register a cocker spaniel with them as pure bred APBT. There are also no differences in AmStaff or anything else with them. Its just a way for some little group of people to make some money and like mentioned before, to make it easier for BYBs to sales pitch potential buyers who aren't really educated about the breed.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Kinda comes down to the difference between "papered" and actually pedigreed.


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## Trapboi103 (Dec 14, 2008)

*APBR!! IS IT REAL OR A GIMMICK!!!*

I JUS FOUND THIS REGISTRY AMERICAN PITBULL REGISTRY. I WANNA KNOW IF THERE FOR REAL OR NOT BECAUSE IT SOUNDS FISHY!!! J/C

HERE'S THE LINK

American Pit Bull Registry is everything Pit Bull


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## BedlamBully (Jun 6, 2008)

Personally I give it about as much credibility as the CKC, they allow APBTs with blue eyes and merle patterns and the ADBA and UKC will NOT accept their paperwork to dual register.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

IMO No .. the only registries I would deal with and would consider credible are the akc adba and the ukc .


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## LuvMyPittys09 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Registry question*

I've heard of the AKC, CKC, UKC, ADBA, etc...I know which ones of those are considered reputable. Has anyone else heard of the American Pitbull Registry (APBR)? Are they "reputable"?


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## ThaLadyPit (Oct 12, 2008)

If it's the registry I'm thinking of, then no, they're not reputable and run as fast as you can away from them!! A little help here from the folks with more knowledge of the registries...


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

No. No they are not... Not at all... You can register with pictures lol.. Nothing to do with purebred dogs.


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## athena08 (Sep 16, 2008)

i was wondering this as well. did not plan on using it but have seen some people around here with thier pits in this registry.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Pretty sure you could send a picture of a Schnauzer, pay the fee and end up with "papers" for an APBT. Bad, very bad!


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## 619luv (May 1, 2009)

Thats the first Ive heard of that registry..

its adding to the list!!


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## CUTDOWNSKENNELS (May 18, 2009)

NEVER HEARD OF IT .........ADBA UKC WORK FINE FOR ME


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## jeep lex (Jan 29, 2009)

its a joke dont waste a penny on those pappers


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## pimpidypimp (Dec 30, 2008)

News Flash> There is no reputable registries!


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## athena08 (Sep 16, 2008)

my whole thought on registries is. They cannot always be 100% shure you have a purebred dog. Also we have all read that the ukc and adba were made for the american pit bull for the most part. I feel that if you want to register your dog with someone they should either do blood testing to see if it is purebred or do a conformation assesment. I mean just my opinion but i do not feel that if you are not already in the so called reputable registeries why thier is not a way to get into them when your pet does not have papers. Really all these registries allow is for you to advance your dog in different avenues in whichever field you like I.E. weight pull, conformation, and so on and so forth. That way you can say hey my dog is this and you are buying from a breeder with these type of dogs. I feel this is kinda unfair. I do know you can do limited registries. I do not feel it is fair that all hope is lost when you have a purebred pup and cannot do anything with the ukc or adba without getting them fixed. So as far as the ckc apbr and some of the other not so high on the list registries. That is really all that is left for some people that have had missfourtunes with getting thier papers from some breeders and have great dogs. I am not saying my girl would get champion or anything but on the other hand you do not know. I can say this much and ill finish. Mr. Colby and all the other breeders had to start somewhere with two dogs why should we down anyone else from doing the same even though it is not with the UKC or ADBA.


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## Rampage_Cara (May 23, 2009)

*APBR Question!*

Just wondering what you guys think of the American Pit Bull Registry. Would you guys support it, why or why not?

American Pit Bull Registry is everything Pit Bull


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## smith family kennels (Jan 10, 2009)

That is a registry trying to come up. I'm not really sure I dont know alot about them. I would not register my dogs with them cause its like the ckc you can register anything pure breed or not


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## Rampage_Cara (May 23, 2009)

Are there any other organizations you guys would recommend supporting?


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## athena08 (Sep 16, 2008)

i think the registy means well but just needs to come up with another way of doing the registrations for everyone on here to start supporting them. Now i believe everyone has to start somewhere like Mr. Colby did it is just a matter of perception and are you happy with what they are offering you and your pet.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

That registry started about 10 years ago and hasn't gone much of anywhere due to the fact that they register dogs as "purebred" and give you "papers" just for sending in pictures of your dog. They are a bunk registry that supports Back Yard Breeders and gives them a way to charge more for their "papered" none pedigreed dogs.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

I don't support the apbr or the ckc as neither requires any dogs to have previously been registered hence will accept dogs that have hung papers without any question or even dogs that could be mixes.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Good registries to support
ADBA
UKC
AADR
imo


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## ilovemypitbulls1989 (Nov 29, 2008)

APBR and CKC should be changed to AKDR...Any Kind of Dog Registry. They're not legit and if u have one with that registry thry need to be fixed. DON'T BREED APBR OR CKC PITS PLEASE!


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

ilovemypitbulls1989 said:


> APBR and CKC should be changed to AKDR...Any Kind of Dog Registry. They're not legit and if u have one with that registry thry need to be fixed. DON'T BREED APBR OR CKC PITS PLEASE!





smith family kennels said:


> That is a registry trying to come up. I'm not really sure I dont know alot about them. I would not register my dogs with them cause its like the ckc you can register anything pure breed or not





american_pit13 said:


> That registry started about 10 years ago and hasn't gone much of anywhere due to the fact that they register dogs as "purebred" and give you "papers" just for sending in pictures of your dog. They are a bunk registry that supports Back Yard Breeders and gives them a way to charge more for their "papered" none pedigreed dogs.





ilovemypitbulls1989 said:


> APBR and CKC should be changed to AKDR...Any Kind of Dog Registry. They're not legit and if u have one with that registry thry need to be fixed. DON'T BREED APBR OR CKC PITS PLEASE!


All the above quotes apply. This is a mis-perception based on either lack of knowledge, disagreement with policies and brand devotion. The AKC will say the ADBA is not valid. The ADBA will say the ABKC is not valid. The term illegitimate purports to mean that they do not provide a true service to their members. I doubt any registry would remain in business if it did not provide services to its members. Whether you agree or not with a lesser known registry does not make them illegitimate. Just because you do not like vanilla ice cream does not mean it is not ice cream.



redsky said:


> I don't support the apbr or the ckc as neither requires any dogs to have previously been registered hence will accept dogs that have hung papers without any question or even dogs that could be mixes.


Papers can be hung with any registry. Here is a quote directly from the AKC Secretary's Page: http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/secretary_page/0303.pdf
"Brenda Addleman (Omaha, NE) was
suspended from all event privileges for
two years, effective January 22, 2003,
and fined $1,000 for entering, or causing
to be entered, and exhibiting, or
causing to be exhibited, a Cocker
Spaniel other than the one represented
on the entry form."

No registry has a hold on the unethical breeder market. All can be duped. All admit this openly.



athena08 said:


> i think the registy means well but just needs to come up with another way of doing the registrations for everyone on here to start supporting them. Now i believe everyone has to start somewhere like Mr. Colby did it is just a matter of perception and are you happy with what they are offering you and your pet.


Good post Athena :clap:. By the way Chauncey Bennett started the UKC and may have registered Pits without any "known lineage". Second coulumn Dam's Sire "Bennett's Buck" ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [9891] :: NAGLES' HOBO


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

ThaLadyPit said:


> If it's the registry I'm thinking of, then no, they're not reputable and run as fast as you can away from them!! A little help here from the folks with more knowledge of the registries...





american_pit13 said:


> No. No they are not... Not at all... You can register with pictures lol.. Nothing to do with purebred dogs.





Carriana said:


> Pretty sure you could send a picture of a Schnauzer, pay the fee and end up with "papers" for an APBT. Bad, very bad!





jeep lex said:


> its a joke dont waste a penny on those pappers


This is a mis-perception based on either lack of knowledge, disagreement with policies and brand devotion. The AKC will say the ADBA is not valid. The ADBA will say the ABKC is not valid. The term illegitimate purports to mean that they do not provide a true service to their members. I doubt any registry would remain in business if it did not provide services to its members. Whether you agree or not with a lesser known registry does not make them illegitimate. Just because you do not like vanilla ice cream does not mean it is not ice cream.



athena08 said:


> i was wondering this as well. did not plan on using it but have seen some people around here with thier pits in this registry.


People are mostly brand prejudice. Most of what is said negative about smaller registries is not based on experience. For the "brand" people it is false to think by putting others down you somehow prop yourself up. You only add an air of illegitimacy to the whole industry.



pimpidypimp said:


> News Flash> There is no reputable registries!





athena08 said:


> my whole thought on registries is. They cannot always be 100% shure you have a purebred dog. Also we have all read that the ukc and adba were made for the american pit bull for the most part. I feel that if you want to register your dog with someone they should either do blood testing to see if it is purebred or do a conformation assesment. I mean just my opinion but i do not feel that if you are not already in the so called reputable registeries why thier is not a way to get into them when your pet does not have papers. Really all these registries allow is for you to advance your dog in different avenues in whichever field you like I.E. weight pull, conformation, and so on and so forth. That way you can say hey my dog is this and you are buying from a breeder with these type of dogs. I feel this is kinda unfair. I do know you can do limited registries. I do not feel it is fair that all hope is lost when you have a purebred pup and cannot do anything with the ukc or adba without getting them fixed. So as far as the ckc apbr and some of the other not so high on the list registries. That is really all that is left for some people that have had missfourtunes with getting thier papers from some breeders and have great dogs. I am not saying my girl would get champion or anything but on the other hand you do not know. I can say this much and ill finish. Mr. Colby and all the other breeders had to start somewhere with two dogs why should we down anyone else from doing the same even though it is not with the UKC or ADBA.


Thanks for your non-biased approach Athena I am sorry you have been cyber-bullied.

Papers can be hung with any registry. Here is a quote directly from the AKC Secretary's Page: http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/secretary_page/0303.pdf
"Brenda Addleman (Omaha, NE) was
suspended from all event privileges for
two years, effective January 22, 2003,
and fined $1,000 for entering, or causing
to be entered, and exhibiting, or
causing to be exhibited, a Cocker
Spaniel other than the one represented
on the entry form."

No registry has a hold on the unethical breeder market. All can be duped. All admit this openly.



athena08 said:


> i think the registry means well but just needs to come up with another way of doing the registrations for everyone on here to start supporting them. Now i believe everyone has to start somewhere like Mr. Colby did it is just a matter of perception and are you happy with what they are offering you and your pet.


The APBR differentiates itself in the level of services it provides to its members. Here is a registry comparison chart.

Good post Athena we appreciate your non-bias approach. By the way Chauncey Bennett started the UKC and may have registered Pits without any known lineage. Not just not reportes "No known lineage" ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [9891] :: NAGLES' HOBO Second column Bennett's Buck


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

BedlamBully said:


> Personally I give it about as much credibility as the CKC, they allow APBTs with blue eyes and merle patterns and the ADBA and UKC will NOT accept their paperwork to dual register.


Merle can be proven all the way back as far as the 30's "Louis Colby's Merle". Merle can create the blue eye effect as well. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [863] :: COLBY'S MERLE (VOSE'S)

The AKC does not accept the ADBA, The ADBA does not accept the CKC, on and on. Each registry is different and has their own standards. All registry standards are different and all registries are independent. At least they are supposed to be.



SadieBlues said:


> IMO No .. the only registries I would deal with and would consider credible are the akc adba and the ukc .


This is a mis-perception based on either lack of knowledge, disagreement with policies and brand devotion. The AKC will say the ADBA is not valid. The ADBA will say the ABKC is not valid. The term illegitimate purports to mean that they do not provide a true service to their members. I doubt any registry would remain in business if it did not provide services to its members. Whether you agree or not with a lesser known registry does not make them illegitimate. Just because you do not like vanilla ice cream does not mean it is not ice cream.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

Sure, they provide a service to their members. It's the dogs they forget, lol. Root of all evil...blah,blah,blah.....


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

Carriana said:


> Has anyone been to, seen, heard of this website?
> 
> American Pit Bull Registry is everything Pit Bull
> 
> ...


Merle can be proven all the way back as far as the 30's "Louis Colby's Merle". Merle can create the blue eye effect as well. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [863] :: COLBY'S MERLE (VOSE'S)

The UKC and ADBA only removed the Merle color patter recently in 2005. The ADBA still admits to its purity and how can they when you talk about "Colby's Merle"



reddoggy said:


> APBR is kinda funny. You can register but it's worthless, makes back yard breeding a little easier. That sucks, but at the same time the site is a nteworking tool(not just for byb). They have organizations in place to rehome and/or foster pits. There's some useful info for the novice but there's also useless crap. All in all, I wouldn't recommend that site to anyone who is trying to learn something factual!





bahamutt99 said:


> Yeah, they're pretty grody. I visit their classifieds every now and then for a laugh, or if I need a reason to get pissed off. :roll:


Useless crap and worthless papers can be found in any registry. Check out this quote about the AKC directly from their Secretary's Minutes:

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/secretary_page/0303.pdf
"Brenda Addleman (Omaha, NE) was
suspended from all event privileges for
two years, effective January 22, 2003,
and fined $1,000 for entering, or causing
to be entered, and exhibiting, or
causing to be exhibited, a Cocker
Spaniel *other than the one represented
on the entry form*."

No registry has a hold on the unethical breeder market. All can be duped.

If you do find breed advocacy such as helping with rescue Pits and free Classifieds it sounds like it would be a good registry for you. On the other hand you can pay the ADBA $20 each month you run the most basic of ads for you.



american_pit13 said:


> They make it easier for BYB to peddle pups to buys who don't know any better and get APBR "papers" on the puppies. They register just by photo and are a huge joke. It is the same as me sending you papers saying your dogs is pure when I have no idea lol..


Maybe someone would dare to call Bennett's Buck impure. Seems he was registered with no liniage: ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [9891] :: NAGLES' HOBO second column to the right third one down.

Does any dog person today even have the right to question such great Dogmen as Colby and Bennett? They obviously felt what they were doing was right.



advocatekennels said:


> :cheers: All of you are SO right about them. I once called an add in a paper locally to see about this guys pups. They told me APBR and I asked if they were registered with anything else and he was like, "well, we were gonna AKC them but I dont really know how to." That was just a big red flag to me for BYB. Then he went on to tell me that he is real good friends with the creator of APBR in Antioch and how much stuff they do. You could probably register a cocker spaniel with them as pure bred APBT. There are also no differences in AmStaff or anything else with them. Its just a way for some little group of people to make some money and like mentioned before, to make it easier for BYBs to sales pitch potential buyers who aren't really educated about the breed.


If you hold every business accountable to the mental level of its customers then I am certain I could pick some from any registry that would make equally as bad a representative.



american_pit13 said:


> Kinda comes down to the difference between "papered" and actually pedigreed.


I guess Bennett's Buck was just papered then. Technically you are correct if you say yes but I would like to hear it anyway. The base purpose of a registry is to track lineage. All lineage tracking has to start somewhere. Many pure bred Pits have fallen out of this process through no fault of their own. Placing them back into the registration process not only allows this to happen but also reduces inbreeding depression "More than 500 genetic defects exist in today's purebred dogs" Many of these can be eliminated or significantly reduced simply by creating a larger prospect pool. A new direction for kennel club regulations and breed standards


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Online pedigrees is a site for people to put up the pedigrees of their dogs. Just because the information isn't on that site doesn't mean the dog doesn't have recorded linage.


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

american_pit13 said:


> Online pedigrees is a site for people to put up the pedigrees of their dogs. Just because the information isn't on that site doesn't mean the dog doesn't have recorded linage.


Maybe they do not but that is a pretty thin point and does not explain Colby's Merle. If you are trying to discredit them as a source then it would also be helpful if you provided a better one if it is available.

Even if Bennett did not have a pedigree he would not owe an explanation. He started the UKC and who are we to question that?


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

Papers can be hung with any registry but again if you had no papers or got banned from a good registry the sideline registry is where folks would run so again no thanks we have enough established registries already....

If you are going to spend good money try to find a good breeder that has dogs that are clearly a product of their ancestry....


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

redsky said:


> Papers can be hung with any registry but again if you had no papers or got banned from a good registry the sideline registry is where folks would run so again no thanks we have enough established registries already....
> 
> If you are going to spend good money try to find a good breeder that has dogs that are clearly a product of their ancestry....


That is just an attempt to slander. I have already proven there are unethical members in even the AKC. Why not let us just say the AKC is the only registry we need? So everybody should go to the AKC now. Real Pit Bull lovers will understand how ludicrous that sounds. Well then maybe just the ADBA or how about just the UKC. Registries exist because of their differentiation. What happened to capitalism, where did America go? Closed registries create demand for open registries because they are closed.

If you do not like a registry no one is forcing you to join them. In America there is choice.

Do you have any actual experience with the APBR? If no then how can you judge fairly?


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

buzhunter said:


> Sure, they provide a service to their members. It's the dogs they forget, lol. Root of all evil...blah,blah,blah.....


That leave the impression they do not care about their dogs, and shows you speak from inexperience. Does your registry openly and actively work with Pit Bull rescues and shelters in placement of needy Pits? Does your registry of choice limit inbreeding?

Do you know there are over 500 genetic defects in today's dogs. Many of these can be mostly or completely corrected simply by opening the registration process up. Without this you create a limited breeding pool and cause inbreeding depression.

Are you familiar with Wright's Coefficient of Inbreeding. "Recent studies have demonstrated that for every 10% increase in COI, there is a 7% decrease in litter size and median life span, and that any COI above 9% pushes perilously past the genetic threshold of health" - A new direction for kennel club regulations and breed standards

If you do not wish to support them or any other registry this is your choice but why should you limit the freedoms of others to make an informed choice?


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

pitbullfanatic said:


> Maybe they do not but that is a pretty thin point and does not explain Colby's Merle. If you are trying to discredit them as a source then it would also be helpful if you provided a better one if it is available.
> 
> Even if Bennett did not have a pedigree he would not owe an explanation. He started the UKC and who are we to question that?


Seriously? Do you have nothing better to do with your time than to dig up year old threads and post the same thing you've already posted on 20 other different threads about the same thing? I tire of your rhetoric. Find a better use of your time please. You haven't convinced me of anything other than you have too much time on your hands.


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

Carriana said:


> Seriously? Do you have nothing better to do with your time than to dig up year old threads and post the same thing you've already posted on 20 other different threads about the same thing? I tire of your rhetoric. Find a better use of your time please. You haven't convinced me of anything other than that you have too much time on your hands.


You obviously do not know the background as to why I posted. I posted as the thread was brought to my attention I did not go seeking it out. Now however I guess it is not old so everyone is welcome to pitch in.

In regards to my "rhetoric" what is it that you are tired of? I speak just the truth so maybe it's the truth. If you do not like it either post something contrary and specific or move on.

It seems this board is suffering from membership attrition due to people like you, who run other Pit Bull enthusiasts off. Maybe it is that I do not give up even when ganged up upon that is disheartening. I will speak up on their behalf. Your criticism adds fuel to the lamp by which I shine the light on truth.


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## ForPits&Giggles (Oct 21, 2008)

I get ya man, the world is full of shady people. But that doesnt change the fact that all the APBR requires alot less and provides alot less than the other registries. I mean, I dont really approve of a registry whose first line of benefits to being registered include "Increases value of the registered Pit Bull and its offspring" that just lets me know that people who run this registry and those who register with these people are in it first for the money, and not the dog. Second, the fact remains that the APBR will register a non-registered dog with simply 2 pics. Even with the limited programs for non-registered dogs in the ADBA and UKC, you must have proof that the dog is spayed or neutered so as to not add to the mass of "unknown" dogs out there.

P.S. I have a short attention spand, so keep it short and too the point. I've already had trouble reading the same response from your 6 times today. :hammer::hammer:


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## kstr0h (May 10, 2009)

youv said the same thing in like the last 3 threads. chill


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## PitBullSwagga (Jun 1, 2009)

pitbullfanatic said:


> That leave the impression they do not care about their dogs, and shows you speak from inexperience. Does your registry openly and actively work with Pit Bull rescues and shelters in placement of needy Pits? Does your registry of choice limit inbreeding?
> 
> Do you know there are over 500 genetic defects in today's dogs. Many of these can be mostly or completely corrected simply by opening the registration process up. Without this you create a limited breeding pool and cause inbreeding depression.
> 
> ...


:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## pitlover09 (May 1, 2009)

No dont waste your money trying to get your dog registered with that registry.
All you have to do is send in pics of your dog and some money. But all you get in return
is a cheap paper certificate and a dvd that 'supposedly' has your dog's pics. But the dvd doesnt even work. Yes im speaking from experience.


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## PitBullSwagga (Jun 1, 2009)

pitbullfanatic said:


> You obviously do not know the background as to why I posted. I posted as the thread was brought to my attention I did not go seeking it out. Now however I guess it is not old so everyone is welcome to pitch in.
> 
> In regards to my "rhetoric" what is it that you are tired of? I speak just the truth so maybe it's the truth. If you do not like it either post something contrary and specific or move on.
> 
> It seems this board is suffering from membership attrition due to people like you, who run other Pit Bull enthusiasts off. Maybe it is that I do not give up even when ganged up upon that is disheartening. I will speak up on their behalf. Your criticism adds fuel to the lamp by which I shine the light on truth.


i still stand by you on this one... :goodpost: :clap:


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm curious as to why, Pitbullfanatic, it is you who is 'shining the light on truth'. Maybe you're just delirious and the truth is right in front of you. The majority of people here are incredibly educated on this breed and to sit there and say that YOU are the ONLY one who is telling the truth is seriously getting to me. Merle is unacceptable, so, since we register our breed with registries that say that, we concur. APBR and CKC register dogs based on pictures. Honestly there isn't even an arguement there, that's just ridiculous to defend them.

Enough is enough with the debate here. Sheesh. Agree to disagree and move on!!!


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## kstr0h (May 10, 2009)

pitbullfanatic, YOUR SO ANNOYING. you keep saying the same thing over and over in many different threads. you can try and defend the ckc and whatever else but what it comes down to is, THERE CRAP. you can type a long response to this, casue i know you will but nothing changes the fact that there not good registries. SO many people on this board who know what there talking about keep saying that there bad and you continue to argue.


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## Bulldoggin (Jun 15, 2009)

CkC and APBR are Bogus registries that do not mean a thing.
You can register a chihuahua as a great dane with them...they should both be called mutts incorporated, and no credible registry will ever accept their paperwork.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

pitbullfanatic said:


> Merle can be proven all the way back as far as the 30's "Louis Colby's Merle". Merle can create the blue eye effect as well. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [863] :: COLBY'S MERLE (VOSE'S)


"Merle" is just the name of the dog. Color of "Colbys Merle" was tan/white.



> The AKC does not accept the ADBA, The ADBA does not accept the CKC, on and on. Each registry is different and has their own standards. All registry standards are different and all registries are independent. At least they are supposed to be.


As far as APBT/amstaffs are concerned, the ADBA accepts UKC & AKC. The UKC accepts ADBA & AKC. The AKC will accept neither.

None of the 3 accept CKC or APBR.



> This is a mis-perception based on either lack of knowledge, disagreement with policies and brand devotion. The AKC will say the ADBA is not valid. The ADBA will say the ABKC is not valid. The term illegitimate purports to mean that they do not provide a true service to their members. I doubt any registry would remain in business if it did not provide services to its members. Whether you agree or not with a lesser known registry does not make them illegitimate. Just because you do not like vanilla ice cream does not mean it is not ice cream.


The real truth is that the CKC will accept ANY dog to be registered as long as you have the parents names. No lineage required.

The ADBA & UKC have both been in business for over 100 years. They both actually have restrictions unlike the CKC. I consider a CKC registered dog unregistered.


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

ForPits&Giggles said:


> I get ya man, the world is full of shady people. But that doesnt change the fact that all the APBR requires alot less and provides alot less than the other registries. I mean, I dont really approve of a registry whose first line of benefits to being registered include "Increases value of the registered Pit Bull and its offspring" that just lets me know that people who run this registry and those who register with these people are in it first for the money, and not the dog. Second, the fact remains that the APBR will register a non-registered dog with simply 2 pics. Even with the limited programs for non-registered dogs in the ADBA and UKC, you must have proof that the dog is spayed or neutered so as to not add to the mass of "unknown" dogs out there.
> 
> P.S. I have a short attention spand, so keep it short and too the point. I've already had trouble reading the same response from your 6 times today. :hammer::hammer:


All the responses were from links to posts sent to me, that were all about the same thing. This is why the similar responses.



PitBullSwagga said:


> i still stand by you on this one... :goodpost: :clap:


Thank you, I hope the administrators also recognize this as it does the board no favors.



mygirlmaile said:


> I'm curious as to why, Pitbullfanatic, it is you who is 'shining the light on truth'. Maybe you're just delirious and the truth is right in front of you. The majority of people here are incredibly educated on this breed and to sit there and say that YOU are the ONLY one who is telling the truth is seriously getting to me. Merle is unacceptable, so, since we register our breed with registries that say that, we concur. APBR and CKC register dogs based on pictures. Honestly there isn't even an arguement there, that's just ridiculous to defend them.
> 
> Enough is enough with the debate here. Sheesh. Agree to disagree and move on!!!


I have never said I am the only educated one. In fact I have had the accusation thrown at me that I am un-educated. I believe all here have varying degrees of education and most have come here with the ides to learn more. This is why I cite my information and ask others to do the same.

I have also proven with cited evidence the Merle has a provable history back to the 30's. Just because a registry abandons the Merle does not mean others should. There are 2 arguments to Merle. 1. Pure or not and 2. Should it be removed based on health issues. The APBR is not subject to either the UKC or ADBA and has full right to accept the Merle if it chooses. May I remind you it was the other registries that abandoned the Merle and have admitted to its purity. Feel free to visit the Merle post as I have provided full evidence of everything. I just ask you to be impartial until you do read the cited resources that come from the ADBA and UKC among others.



kstr0h said:


> pitbullfanatic, YOUR SO ANNOYING. you keep saying the same thing over and over in many different threads. you can try and defend the ckc and whatever else but what it comes down to is, THERE CRAP. you can type a long response to this, casue i know you will but nothing changes the fact that there not good registries. SO many people on this board who know what there talking about keep saying that there bad and you continue to argue.


Different threads, same topic. All brought to my attention for response. For all those that "know" what they are talking about then why not cite the evidence that has helped them come to that conclusion. Yet not one has cited another source.


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

*yawn* can we be done yet?!


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

mygirlmaile said:


> *yawn* can we be done yet?!


Are you asking me to give up on the truth or the thread? You know you are also welcome to leave. I do hope you stick around though and actually add to the conversation.


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

I enjoy GP, thank you very much, HOWEVER, lately all I seem to find is you and your posts and your 'citations'. I'd like to read more than just you arguing about merles and the CKC and the APBR. And again...*yawn*.


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## mygirlmaile (Mar 26, 2009)

And I'd like to apologize to anyone else on this forum whom I may have offended with my complaints. I'm just over the SAME thing being said everyday for the past week plus. 

Whew.


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> "Merle" is just the name of the dog. Color of "Colbys Merle" was tan/white.


Please provide evidence of this with a source. I would be happy to review it and add it as a source in my research.



Rock Creek Kennels said:


> As far as APBT/amstaffs are concerned, the ADBA accepts UKC & AKC. The UKC accepts ADBA & AKC. The AKC will accept neither.


My point exactly. All are independent and have their own standards. Do you think Pepsi would change its formula just because Coke ask?



Rock Creek Kennels said:


> The real truth is that the CKC will accept ANY dog to be registered as long as you have the parents names. No lineage required.


I have no experience with the CKC but if this is the case then they need to take action to stop this. This same thing however is possible with others as well so the CKC is not alone here. All registries understand the problem with paper hanging. Read some of my other posts where I cite this to be true with the AKC.



Rock Creek Kennels said:


> The ADBA & UKC have both been in business for over 100 years. They both actually have restrictions unlike the CKC. I consider a CKC registered dog unregistered.


Here is a nice little quote from Richard Stratton p. 135-136.

"The United Kennel Club was founded in 1898 by Chauncey Z. Bennett, and the first breed to be recognized was the American Pit Bull Terrier. Now Mr. Bennett was not a pit dog man in the sense that he ever matched dogs, but he was an enthusiastic promoter of the breed. He was not fool enough to fall for the absurd idea sometimes promulgated by kennel clubs that a breed is not pure bred unless it is registered."

By your definition alone age is the factor by which to determine legitimacy. Mr. Bennett also had the same issues to deal with that are now going on for other less known registries. By your definition the UKC was also illegitimate at the time of their start. At what point did they gain their legitimacy?


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

mygirlmaile said:


> I enjoy GP, thank you very much, HOWEVER, lately all I seem to find is you and your posts and your 'citations'. I'd like to read more than just you arguing about merles and the CKC and the APBR. And again...*yawn*.


Read some of the citations. There are plenty of posts otherwise.



mygirlmaile said:


> And I'd like to apologize to anyone else on this forum whom I may have offended with my complaints. I'm just over the SAME thing being said everyday for the past week plus.
> 
> Whew.


I too am tired of the debate but it is continually brought to me by responses.

Please also read the topic of the thread. The discussion that is going on is topic relevant. This is the same with all the posts I have responded to. You will notice if you go to other posts with different topics I write very different things that are appropriate to that post.


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## cass0407 (May 22, 2009)

This is just absolutely rediculous! It is very obvious that many people here don't think that APBR is an acceptable registry and honestly people there are like 3 different threads on this so could we please look before posting next time to aviod all of this nonsense? Thank you! I believe all questions have been answered and all points proven whether or not we want to accept what others are saying I think it's time to move on, please! Nobody wants to come here just to read the same thing over and over again. Once is enough for me thanks.


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

cass0407 said:


> This is just absolutely rediculous! It is very obvious that many people here don't think that APBR is an acceptable registry and honestly people there are like 3 different threads on this so could we please look before posting next time to aviod all of this nonsense? Thank you! I believe all questions have been answered and all points proven whether or not we want to accept what others are saying I think it's time to move on, please! Nobody wants to come here just to read the same thing over and over again. Once is enough for me thanks.


A small group of people against, if you notice in all the threads it is the same individuals. I do not see the other 9,000 plus speaking against. In fact I have had support by others, who are afraid to speak out due to being cyber-bullied. I speak on their behalf as well.


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## kstr0h (May 10, 2009)

pitbullfanatic said:


> A small group of people against, if you notice in all the threads it is the same individuals. I do not see the other 9,000 plus speaking against. In fact I have had support by others, who are afraid to speak out due to being cyber-bullied. I speak on their behalf as well.


lol cyber bullied? no, i agree with the people who say ckc etc are bad because it makes sense. if you can send JUST a picture of your dog in and get it paperd and called purebred....somethings wrong. use your brain and think a little. enough with your nonsense posts.


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

kstr0h said:


> lol cyber bullied? no, i agree with the people who say ckc etc are bad because it makes sense. if you can send JUST a picture of your dog in and get it paperd and called purebred....somethings wrong. use your brain and think a little. enough with your nonsense posts.


You have obviously not read past posts as I proved how Bennett himself (UKC Founder) believed in an open registration system. Show me one post I have written that does not make sense. Show me any source I have provided that is wrong. Yes Cyber-bullied and slandered. Jump on though I can carry the weight of you all. However if you do not like the subject you are also welcome to attend to any of the other thousands of posts available.


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

kstr0h said:


> pitbullfanatic, YOUR SO ANNOYING. you keep saying the same thing over and over in many different threads. you can try and defend the ckc and whatever else but what it comes down to is, THERE CRAP. you can type a long response to this, casue i know you will but nothing changes the fact that there not good registries. SO many people on this board who know what there talking about keep saying that there bad and you continue to argue.


knock that s*** off. this forum and others like it aren't supposed to be used for putting people down. if you dont agree, then speak your peace theres no need to sit there and put people down. especially people that are educated beyond yourself.
i get more info from his posts in the first 5 min then i do from all your posts together.


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

Nizmo357 said:


> knock that s*** off. this forum and others like it aren't supposed to be used for putting people down. if you dont agree, then speak your peace theres no need to sit there and put people down. especially people that are educated beyond yourself.
> i get more info from his posts in the first 5 min then i do from all your posts together.


Thank you Nizmo. I am happy you are getting something from my posts. Feel free to disagree with anything I say as I try to respect all opinions. Careful not to get too close though it seems I am radio active.


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## buzhunter (Sep 3, 2007)

pitbullfanatic said:


> If you do not wish to support them or any other registry this is your choice but why should you limit the freedoms of others to make an informed choice?


Lady, if I had the power to limit freedoms, I doubt I'd be here talking dogs.


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

By denying someone to speak out the truth you are suppressing the freedoms of those who want it. Iran and the current voting situation is a perfect and timely example.


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## redsky (Feb 28, 2009)

I think everyone should just voice their opinion and let it go we can't make folks think as we do period so no sense in cramming it down their throat or berating each other because one disagrees, agree to disagree....

A registry is as good as it allows themself to be and as good as the participants of it is. I in the beginning hoped apbr turned out to be a really great registry but after watching for years and seeing no improvement and even making suggestions that they basically said okay cool long as you do the work (for free at that) we are okay with it. Everyone wants to do something but nobody wants to put in the real work and money of it so until they decide they want to go to the next step and set up regulations to close the books because yes you can't keep open books and hope to reputable. One of the things that makes the well known registries stand out is the fact that you can't just up and decide oh i want my unpapered dog to be with this registry. You can alter them and put them in events but other then that you can't get them in and the point of that is if you have no info on the dog there is no way to know if the dog is what you say it is period and on top of that if you aren't looking to do things with the dog such as conformation, weight pull, ob, agility etc then why even bother unless your up to no good and want to breed the dog to death?? Jmo nobody has to agree but we are adult enough to agree to disagree period...


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## ForPits&Giggles (Oct 21, 2008)

pitbullfanatic said:


> Please provide evidence of this with a source. I would be happy to review it and add it as a source in my research.


It says it right there on the pedigree... "Color: Tan and White" :hammer: Do you have proof that this dog was merle? Besides a name? LMFAO? My dogs name is "Snickers" that doesnt make him a candy bar.


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

Nizmo357 said:


> knock that s*** off. this forum and others like it aren't supposed to be used for putting people down. if you dont agree, then speak your peace theres no need to sit there and put people down. especially people that are educated beyond yourself.
> i get more info from his posts in the first 5 min then i do from all your posts together.


:rofl: :goodpost:Right, that guy/al is like an encyclopedia lol, always much to learn when he posts.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Nizmo357 said:


> knock that s*** off. this forum and others like it aren't supposed to be used for putting people down. if you dont agree, then speak your peace theres no need to sit there and put people down. especially people that are educated beyond yourself.
> i get more info from his posts in the first 5 min then i do from all your posts together.


I agree. You don't have to put someone down just because you don't agree. I mean shit, you really think all of the members here have the same points of view? That's why it's a discussion forum, not a name calling match.

Pitbullfanatic, I agree that your posts are informative, and even though I don't agree with everything you say, you state your point very clearly. You back up what you talk and that's what posting should be about. I have to say, the topic about Kennel Clubs has been a little repetative, but at least you are keeping your cool.

How f**king old are we guys? Come on?! Private Message that boo boo. Don't post it!


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

pitbullfanatic said:


> Please provide evidence of this with a source. I would be happy to review it and add it as a source in my research.


No problem. Click you link for "Colbys Merle" and look at the "color" of the dog. Tan/white.



> My point exactly. All are independent and have their own standards. Do you think Pepsi would change its formula just because Coke ask?


Huh? The UKC accepts the ADBA and vise versa. The AKC accepts neither.



> I have no experience with the CKC but if this is the case then they need to take action to stop this.


It is the case and we've been trying to tell you since the beginning but you wont listen.



> This same thing however is possible with others as well so the CKC is not alone here.


False. Not true with the UKC, ADBA, or AKC. Thats part of what makes them better.



> All registries understand the problem with paper hanging. Read some of my other posts where I cite this to be true with the AKC.


Not the CKC. They dont care if you register a chihuahua as an APBT.



> Here is a nice little quote from Richard Stratton p. 135-136.
> 
> "The United Kennel Club was founded in 1898 by Chauncey Z. Bennett, and the first breed to be recognized was the American Pit Bull Terrier. Now Mr. Bennett was not a pit dog man in the sense that he ever matched dogs, but he was an enthusiastic promoter of the breed. He was not fool enough to fall for the absurd idea sometimes promulgated by kennel clubs that a breed is not pure bred unless it is registered."
> 
> By your definition alone age is the factor by which to determine legitimacy. Mr. Bennett also had the same issues to deal with that are now going on for other less known registries. By your definition the UKC was also illegitimate at the time of their start. At what point did they gain their legitimacy?


Age does have alot to do with it. Alot of these bloodlines go back to the original stuff they registered over 100 years ago.


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## kstr0h (May 10, 2009)

nah, nizmo. if i want to say someones annoying, im going to say it. i dont see it as to much of a put down. i like hearing about the different regestires, but im tired of this guy/girl starting a arugement with everything everybody says. so no i wont knock this "shit" off.


oh yea, and did i say i was trying to inform people???? NO, i never did. so dont make stuff up.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

*EXCUSE ME?*

Could someone just close this shit down. I'm tired of picking through the threads that are just one or two people going at it. If something is so annoying to you, why not be the bigger man and leave it alone?


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

kstr0h said:


> nah, nizmo. if i want to say someones annoying, im going to say it. i dont see it as to much of a put down. i like hearing about the different regestires, but im tired of this guy/girl starting a arugement with everything everybody says. so no i wont knock this "shit" off.
> 
> oh yea, and did i say i was trying to inform people???? NO, i never did. so dont make stuff up.


ohh but thats what i do, i make stuff up.  its all good im just trying to keep the peace. if your not trying to inform someone then your trying to argue and pick an argument. it only makes sense.
IMO i think you should only post if you have something useful to say.
calling someone annoying, isnt helping the thread.

just saying


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Nizmo357 said:


> i think you should only post if you have something useful to say.
> calling someone annoying, isnt helping the thread.
> 
> just saying


damn it bro i gotta say we had tension at first... but your posts are always short and sweet.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

you guys gotta remain civil to one another. the threads are annoying and we ubderstand where just about everyone stands on the issue. if you want to back out then this is the time to do it. these are educational threads and not a my registry is better than your registry. 
Thanks


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

redog said:


> these are educational threads and not a my registry is better than your registry.
> Thanks


agreed. it seems like every registration question or bully/apbt discussion turns into a pissing match :flush:


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

StaffyDaddy said:


> Could someone just close this shit down. I'm tired of picking through the threads that are just one or two people going at it. If something is so annoying to you, why not be the bigger man and leave it alone?


You dont HAVE to pick through it. If you dont like it, then dont read it. I personally dont think it should be closed. Everytime a thread gets a little heated it gets locked. This thread has alot of good info and I guarantee that someone has learned something reading it.


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> You dont HAVE to pick through it. If you dont like it, then dont read it. I personally dont think it should be closed. Everytime a thread gets a little heated it gets locked. This thread has alot of good info and I guarantee that someone has learned something reading it.


you know threads get locked because there is a lot of unecessary tension, normally between two or so people bumping heads. ive actually agreed with everything you have posted, and I'm not referring to you. Something posted ten times over is not educational. I have learned things in this post, but I just think that certain threads do get out of hand. They end up steering away from the point and turns into a pissing match. Wether it stays open or closed is up to a moderator. I havent messaged anyone about it, I just simply put my two cents in about arguments. thanks for your feedback though


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> You dont HAVE to pick through it. If you dont like it, then dont read it. I personally dont think it should be closed. Everytime a thread gets a little heated it gets locked. This thread has alot of good info and I guarantee that someone has learned something reading it.


i know i did...


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

Nizmo357 said:


> i know i did...


Great! Thats what its all about.


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

StaffyDaddy said:


> you know threads get locked because there is a lot of unecessary tension, normally between two or so people bumping heads. ive actually agreed with everything you have posted, and I'm not referring to you. Something posted ten times over is not educational. I have learned things in this post, but I just think that certain threads do get out of hand. They end up steering away from the point and turns into a pissing match. Wether it stays open or closed is up to a moderator. I havent messaged anyone about it, I just simply put my two cents in about arguments. thanks for your feedback though


I know you were not refering to me. I read my post again and I should have left the first part out. I was talking more about threads constantly getting locked. Youre right about pissing matches though & overposting. But sometimes thats what it takes to get a point across!!!


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Rock Creek Kennels said:


> I know you were not refering to me. I read my post again and I should have left the first part out. I was talking more about threads constantly getting locked. Youre right about pissing matches though & overposting. But sometimes thats what it takes to get a point across!!!


obviously us as bully breed owners are more hardheaded then we think lol.

I just hate to see a good thread turn into nonsense. I am with you. I learned.. But I think without someone saying anything (like Nizmo said earlier) you'd have someone going after someone else personally, calling them names and such just because they don't share views. I'm used to the "drama" on here. I know it's gonna happen, but you gotta think about what it looks like to newer members.

Nizmo corrected me a few weeks back. I was angry and sort of bashing on ONE person alone. While I don't think what I said was that bad, he was right about possibly turning others away from posting.

I wish there was a temperament test for people on forums lol


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## Rock Creek Kennels (Oct 25, 2006)

StaffyDaddy said:


> I wish there was a temperament test for people on forums lol


AMEN!!! :rofl:


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## Jenna23 (Jun 1, 2009)

kstr0h said:


> nah, nizmo. if i want to say someones annoying, im going to say it. i dont see it as to much of a put down. i like hearing about the different regestires, but im tired of this guy/girl starting a arugement with everything everybody says. so no i wont knock this "shit" off.
> 
> oh yea, and did i say i was trying to inform people???? NO, i never did. so dont make stuff up.


Just my humble opinion, but if you find a person annoying, then stop involving yourself or just don't read what that person posts.

I think that this thread has offered a lot of valuable input/opinions and as I may find some of it repetitive, you can nonetheless say that pitbullfanatic is extremely knowledgeable. You don't have to agree with what that person says, but you should never put down someone because they are perhaps more knowledgeable than yourself. That is ignorance.

I find the debates that pitbullfanatic, RCK, american_pit and others have, very worthwhile. Everyone has their own opinion about things and when there are various people stating their opinions, I am better able to formulate my own.

SO IMO Keep it up! lol


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## StaffyDaddy (Mar 28, 2009)

Jenna23 said:


> J You don't have to agree with what that person says, but you should never put down someone because they are perhaps more knowledgeable than yourself. That is ignorance.
> 
> I find the debates that pitbullfanatic, RCK, american_pit and others have, very worthwhile. Everyone has their own opinion about things and when there are various people stating their opinions, I am better able to formulate my own.


:goodpost:


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## Hirihat (May 5, 2009)

redsky said:


> I think everyone should just voice their opinion and let it go we can't make folks think as we do period so no sense in cramming it down their throat or berating each other because one disagrees, agree to disagree....
> 
> A registry is as good as it allows themself to be and as good as the participants of it is. I in the beginning hoped apbr turned out to be a really great registry but after watching for years and seeing no improvement and even making suggestions that they basically said okay cool long as you do the work (for free at that) we are okay with it. Everyone wants to do something but nobody wants to put in the real work and money of it so until they decide they want to go to the next step and set up regulations to close the books because yes you can't keep open books and hope to reputable. One of the things that makes the well known registries stand out is the fact that you can't just up and decide oh i want my unpapered dog to be with this registry. You can alter them and put them in events but other then that you can't get them in and the point of that is if you have no info on the dog there is no way to know if the dog is what you say it is period and on top of that if you aren't looking to do things with the dog such as conformation, weight pull, ob, agility etc then why even bother unless your up to no good and want to breed the dog to death?? Jmo nobody has to agree but we are adult enough to agree to disagree period...


:goodpost: well spoken!


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## pitbullfanatic (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks everyone. For and against me. I have seen some things here still that I would like to make point on but will let them go (on this post) in order to help keep things cordial.


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