# Update on Mala



## lost.soul (Nov 1, 2009)

Hey guys....a few things I wanna get to. First off, about the Babesia...a friend of mines conected me with a vet down here that surprisingly is against BSL...and even if he doesnt have permission to give out papers, he still does check ups on pits and he also medicates them etc. As soon as I get the money (trying to get it ASAP) I will take her....so that would be within another week, no more then that....in the meanwhile Im gonna be taking the advice one user gave me about the yugurt & ground beef.
Let me get one thing off my chest right now....I am NOT a irresponsible owner, WHAT SO ever....yes, pitbulls are illegal down here....but if I didnt have Mala or Tonka, they would be in very bad hands (fighting dogs is REAL popular down here, which makes it WORSE on BSL)...and thats why I actually got him, because I saw him in bad conditions, and I wanted to help. Mala on the other hand came to me ALSO in terrible conditions, but I mostly got her because being alone gets old after a while, so I wanted a companion....and well, I love this breed. I dont "WATCH the dog die"....I do everything within my power to save the dog...but there was nothing I culd do ffor him, and TRUST me I DID everything I culd.
Ive had days that Ive only had food in the house for me & my parents, and NO DOG food...and Ive given MY food to Mala...I may not be able to take her to a vet or even walk her around like any normal dog...but I do all I can to feed her, keep her happy (which she is VERY happy), and PROTECT her, even if its from the law...I'd go to jail before they take her away from me.
I mentioned a LONG time ago that ive owned a FEW pitbulls, and I admitted that I only had them temporarily, to sell them after a few months....big mistake on my part....I was very ignorant (well, I was a kid anyways) but thats actually the reason why Im so close to Mala...I learned ALOT from her. She showed me that there ARE kind & loving souls that WONT betray you, that WONT hurt you, and that WONT judge you. I treat her like if she was my daughter (my first born lol)....I hope that clears the "irresponsibility" thing up lol. Im not trying to argue with anyone, just trying to make a point. Thanks.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

by the way make sure the Yogurt has ACTIVE CULTURES. Don't pick up a plain yogurt from WinnDixie...you'll need to make sure it says Active Cultures on there.


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## lost.soul (Nov 1, 2009)

JFlowersLA said:


> by the way make sure the Yogurt has ACTIVE CULTURES. Don't pick up a plain yogurt from WinnDixie...you'll need to make sure it says Active Cultures on there.


THANKS alot pal...will do!!  did u see Mala's video?  its in the General Discussion section


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

I still feel the same way but I will not keep harping on it, failure to provide medical care because the dog is illegal is not responsible no matter how you look at it. Had you had a vet like you do know that can provide care for your dog BSL or not could have saved your other dog.

Since your female got bred are you going to spay her at the vet if she is healthy, or are you going to have the puppies? Your answer on that will tell a lot about how much you care about this breed.


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## lost.soul (Nov 1, 2009)

performanceknls said:


> I still feel the same way but I will not keep harping on it, failure to provide medical care because the dog is illegal is not responsible no matter how you look at it. Had you had a vet like you do know that can provide care for your dog BSL or not could have saved your other dog.
> 
> Since your female got bred are you going to spay her at the vet if she is healthy, or are you going to have the puppies? Your answer on that will tell a lot about how much you care about this breed.


I dont know if you can READ, but yes im taking her to a vet. Yeah Tonka died, but if im having trouble right NOW getting the money to take Mala to the vet what makes you think I could have taken him?
And I'm sorry but if Mala is pregnant, Im not gonna spay her...sorry to who ever disagree's with me but i dont support that...Im only giving out the puppies to people that wont fight them (families, some elders i know, some friends) and thats about it. Im not spaying her...I believe that BSL wont last long in PR. 
Call me irresponsible all you want....Mala's happy, Im feeding her (as I can) so I dont feel irresponsible...to me spaying a pitbull IS eliminating them, because by spaying them your stopping them from multiplying, and whats gonna happen in 5 years? Dogs are spayed, and no more pups? I dont wanna kill the breed either....I dont think in the present, I think about the future too man. Do with that what ever you like.


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## Sadie's Dad (Jul 9, 2009)

lost.soul said:


> I dont know if you can READ, but yes im taking her to a vet. Yeah Tonka died, but if im having trouble right NOW getting the money to take Mala to the vet what makes you think I could have taken him?
> And I'm sorry but if Mala is pregnant, Im not gonna spay her...sorry to who ever disagree's with me but i dont support that...Im only giving out the puppies to people that wont fight them (families, some elders i know, some friends) and thats about it. Im not spaying her...I believe that BSL wont last long in PR.
> Call me irresponsible all you want....Mala's happy, Im feeding her (as I can) so I dont feel irresponsible...to me spaying a pitbull IS eliminating them, because by spaying them your stopping them from multiplying, and whats gonna happen in 5 years? Dogs are spayed, and no more pups? I dont wanna kill the breed either....I dont think in the present, I think about the future too man. Do with that what ever you like.


Do you know how many Pits they put down a day here in the states? The pitbull is not going to disappear. It's the BYB and the people that have accidental litters that are doing more harm than good. If your bitch was in heat you should have known to keep the male away, it's plain ole common sense. That is irresponsible in its own right.


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## DueceAddicTed (Sep 28, 2009)

All I want to say is ... is BSL is such a threat as to not be able to openly and freely take your dog to the vet ... why would you allow more pups to be born into a life where they will have to be hidden and not have provided basic medical care ... and even proper food. I'm not going to beat you in the head just think about it ... Loving your dog sometimes means loving her enough to NOT want her pups in a world of suffering ...... sleep on it please get her fixed ...


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

~eats her popcorn~ claps

I will probably get smacked for saying this.....

First let me say that you are becoming to defensive over this Lost Soul....

Everyone here is just trying to help......

I recentally did a report on BSL for my AM Politics class with an idea of passing a protection act against APBTs and other large breeds affected by BSL. In this report one of sections of this protection act was that only a certified breeder should breed their animal....

Please hun think about what you are doing....Mala is pregnant, and she may have a SERIOUS diease that WILL BE TRANSMITTED to her puppies (that is if they survive).........Please listen sweetie that not only would be giving INFECTED puppies some older person.....or anyone at that....what happens if this puppy bites another dog?

THE DIEASE WILL SPREAD..........Now you tell me.....Do you honestly feel this is a smart thing to do? Risk the life of other dogs and alow them to die to because of it? How can you live with yourself? Another thing what if Mala CAN'T be cured? Then what your going to keep breeding her? Say you have the average 12 puppies in a litter.....

So that is 12 infected puppies.....Mala gets pregnant again say by the neighbors dog....thats another 12 puppies 12+12= 24 infected dogs....

Please check out this link below

Babesia Infection in Dogs

Here is another link PLEASE READ:

Hematology - Google Books

Seriously do your research on this diease ! You may think it's all fine and dandy now, but you obviously don't understand what you are getting into.

You came to this forum for help....and yet you are arguing with those who feel you aren't being wise with your decisions. Let me ask you a question.....

You are so concerned that spaying your dog is wrong.....so was it wrong for me as a Female and mother to get my tubes tied? Was it wrong for me because I had a serious medical condition that would result in the death of myself? It doesn't make me any less different does it? No of course not.

Please understand what you are doing......A dog is just like having a child...

You need money, food, medical care......Puppies get sick all the time, thats why we have special doctors.....Its NOT fair to a puppy to lock them up because they are banned, and it's not fair for a puppy to be sick and miserable. The goal of GP is to help new and existing owners of Pitties with advice....support
We are just asking you to reconsider what you are saying


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## Chaos4ever (Oct 2, 2009)

DueceAddicTed said:


> All I want to say is ... is BSL is such a threat as to not be able to openly and freely take your dog to the vet ... why would you allow more pups to be born into a life where they will have to be hidden and not have provided basic medical care ... and even proper food. I'm not going to beat you in the head just think about it ... Loving your dog sometimes means loving her enough to NOT want her pups in a world of suffering ...... sleep on it please get her fixed ...


Well said. 
Lostsoul would you want 6- 12 more people in the same boat you are in now. If you think you sre struggling now wait untill you have alitter 2 care for. I usually never sound off on these threads but bro if you take the time to really think your situation through the answer should be obvious.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

You huys are so sickening. He doesn't live in this country. He loves his dog and yet you harp and harp on a person and drive them away. 

He has no idea how we value things here just like you have no idea of his values over there. 

If you can not be helpfull don't post.


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## HART (Oct 15, 2009)

Can we see pics of the dog? 

Listen i am sure he is trying to do what he can. Whats normal for dog treatment over there may not be the same it is here. I have been to 13 different countries and let me tell you they are all different.

Lets just hope he does well.

Still would like to see pics of his dog .... i'm a visual kinda guy what can i say lol.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> You huys are so sickening. He doesn't live in this country. He loves his dog and yet you harp and harp on a person and drive them away.
> 
> He has no idea how we value things here just like you have no idea of his values over there.
> 
> If you can not be helpfull don't post.


Sharon-I can't believe you support this. He lives in a BSL area and is breeding more puppies, if they do have Babesia he is breeding infected puppies he is going to sell/give away to spread the disease. So you can have your opinion and we can have ours.

What you are doing *IS* irresponsible even if you have the best intentions. Your dog may be happy because you feed it but if she is sick and you do not abort the litter you are not helping the APBT cause but hurting it.

If you go to the vet and the test the dog and she is negative (you know they need to run at least 2 tests to make sure) then you still have the issue of placing dogs in a area where they can not be properly taken care because they are illegal. If she does have Babesia and you let he have the litter well..... that is just horrible to peddle and promote sick dogs.

Why did you come here asking for help if you just do not want to hear the answer? You are going to do what ever you want but I at least hope this weighs on your conscience.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Lisa I support helping a person not harping on them. It is illegal to have pitbulls over there yes but I know it is illegal to have pot and other drugs over here yet you all talk about. One law is no different than the other. 

Since Babesia from all I have read is a tick borne diesease and not a disease spread from fighting I don't see how Tonka could have pasted this on. If you have a link that states Babesia is a STD please post it as I couldn't find one.


Like I have stated before I'm here to help not judge. Most of the posts pertaining to Lost.Soul are jugdements against him for having a pitbull in a BSl area. We have had others on this board in the same boat and we helped them in the past. I will continue to help him as I have helped in the past.


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## Akasha (Oct 30, 2009)

Babesia Infection in Dogs | Dog Health Problems | Diseases, Illnesses & Symptoms | FetchDog

Dog Babesia Infection Treatments | Canine Babesia Infection Causes

Babesia Infection in Dogs - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

I'm a neutral party (somewhat) but here is proof that Babesia can be spread through dog bitting.....

You have 2 dogs one a retired fighting breed. A female in heat and/or rough playing between dogs. If you look at the video of Mala and the pictures. Mala also seems to have some bad infection on her leg.

Babesia seems to be a parisite that can be contracted through bitting of an infected dog. Salvia and if Tonka was infected chances are Mala is now infected.

The point is either way this young girl (Mala) needs medical attention. Something is wrong obviously with her because she isn't eatting. Pregnant animals tend to eat more and not be choosy when they are pregnant.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> Lisa I support helping a person not harping on them. It is illegal to have pitbulls over there yes but I know it is illegal to have pot and other drugs over here yet you all talk about. One law is no different than the other.
> 
> Since Babesia from all I have read is a tick borne diesease and not a disease spread from fighting I don't see how Tonka could have pasted this on. If you have a link that states Babesia is a STD please post it as I couldn't find one.
> 
> Like I have stated before I'm here to help not judge. Most of the posts pertaining to Lost.Soul are jugdements against him for having a pitbull in a BSl area. We have had others on this board in the same boat and we helped them in the past. I will continue to help him as I have helped in the past.


Babesia is a blood sport disease and is also spread through fluid transfer (like breeding). Most of what was known about Babesia was that it was tick born, now many game kennels are having out breaks and this is a well known fact in the game dog world. The ADBA has written articles and many have also been posted on GD.com. There is a facility in Canada that is doing all the research on Babesia and many APBT kennels are donating samples for them to study and even some of the biggest yards in the ADBA show world are testing positive.

The lack of knowledge on this is why it is so out of control right now. Any dog from game bred lines should be tested and my kennel is going through the process right now. If I can find the studies I have from that lab that is doing the testing I will add them in a link.

The signs of a sick dog are weight loss, not eating and basically they just wither and die seemingly with no apparent reason. The dog he had was previously fought and I almost guarantee it had this disease but only tests would have confirmed. Babesia is a real problem and like I said it is affecting prominent kennels in the ADBA because ppl are not test the dog for it.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Canine Babesiosis - Pit Bull Forums

Babesia - Pit Bull Forums


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## SnoopsMomma (Nov 5, 2009)

I maybe out of line in all of this, but if you cant afford to feed yourself you shouldnt have a dog espcially one that is sick and then to let it have puppies that are potentially going to be sick and not even allowed under the law. I understand lost is in a bad spot. But what will happen to mala in giving birth ( will she die from the strain, will the pups be sick). I dont want to bash anyone but that dog should be of the most concern here and she is not in the best situation.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I really think we need to stop questioning his situtation. He has a dog his dog is ill. Okay lets move on from there. Everyone is jumping the gun and assuming the dog is pregnant when *in fact *we don't know this. People are assuming Tonka had a bad blood disease when *in fact* we don't know why the dog died.

I read alot yesteday about this Babesia and read Nothing about it being a fighting dog disease. Like I said I will do more research on it.

No one has the right to give out medical advice and almost guarantee any dog has any disease. Non of us are Veterinarians adn even if you were with out seeing the dog and doing the proper testing you don't jack........


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Oh because you didn't read that I guess it is not true.... What you are mot likely reading is all the studies about it being a tick born disease, in the bulldog world it is known to be common in game tested dogs. It is a blood sport disease and I posted links that talk about dogs fighting and spreading disease. It is also tick born and sexually transmitted. I said if his dog is positive he should not have the litter and needs to be careful and I also said there is no way to male if his males was infected and the best thing to do is get the female tested. 

Bottom line is his female need medical attention and should be tested, if she is positive or negative she should be spayed to avoid more dogs being breed in a BSL country.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Well According to pitbull chat a posted that sited the University of North Carolina, Raleigh, NC Babesia is a TICK disease it can be passed in sever bites and the greyhound and apbt are more likely to test postive for the disease. It also goes on to say that there are nine geneticlly unique piroplasma's that have been Identified in the blood of dogs. It also states that there are four different tests to confirm this disease but the most comman one is microscopy.

Since the Dr. did not discuss Babesia being transmitted by sex the interveiwer did ask him. He said that there has not been any studies to suport it. However since there can be red blood cells in the sperm that it is possible. And tht it is a good idea to get any breeding animals tested.


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## Indigo Bully Connection (Dec 21, 2006)

I know very little about babesia, but I do have this question... if it comes from ticks... which is a blood sucking parasite which infects a dog through an opening of the epidermis, why would the infection not be passed from the infected dog to another when the skin is opened on an uninfected dog? lmao does that make any sense?


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

From what I understand is that it is a a parasite and the tick needs to feed on the host for 2-3 days to infect the dog. The young Babesia organism's attach to the red blood cells, eventually penetrating and thus making a new home for themselves.Once this happens the Babesia divest its outer coating and divides become a new form called a merozoite. The one article I read and printed ( too much to remeber) stated that in sever fighting ( biting) it can be passed. The other article stated that it is unlikly it would be passed by breeding but there have not been any tests done to confirm or unconfrim this. So it is all speculation.

My main concern is that we have driven Lost away. Some come on here and state things as fact....read what was written ( how it was written) when in fact we don't know anything as we are not there so we can not and should not give out veterinary care.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

Sharon your not listing, this is a big problem and I cannot access the site because it is down to post the info on it being prevalent in game yards. You have to know where to look and the research is being done in CA. Like I said many of the kennels are finding they have infected dogs also the game yards are starting to have problems and it is because of Babesia. Think what you want about this but it has been heavily talked about by the ADBA and others about what a problem it is now.


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## CCaragan (Oct 16, 2009)

Hi this is Cheryl and I was asked by Lisa to come and share some of the knowledge that I have acquired about Babesia in the last year.

Currently studies are going on with Babesia testing, treatment and transfer. 

What i do know is that it can be transferred like aides, such as using the same needles in kennel yard for shots, sexual transmission, infected bitch transfer to pups etc.

This is a blood born disease that attacks the mature red blood cells, starting origin passed by the brown dog tick.

I have personal knowledge of yards that have had Babesia and treated their yards with success.

For those of you that think you know everything think again, this disease is no joke. I know people that are personally involved with the study they are doing with N Carolina University as well as first hand experience with this disease. What they are finding in large volume kennels, APBT, AMstaff, Grey Hound that once one dog in that kennel gets Babesia it usually transfers quickly to the rest of kennel. Now whether the transfer is from tick,canine blood contact, needle transfer or sexual it happens, no one can say 100% how it happened.

One individual is a vet tech and the entire yard had it, the yard has been treated and so far everything is looking up. How ever after speaking to this person for 3 hours about effects, cause and treatment. I would not wish this on anyone. It was explained that some dogs have latent form of Babesia and may not show signs until late in life. Obviously because this is a blood born disease, it would make sense that it can be transferred by sexual contact, same needle contact and of course combat. 


First signs are anemia, maybe slightly off on food, sometimes it can be latent Babesia depending on individual dogs immune system, age etc.


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## JFlowersLA (Oct 14, 2009)

Babesia Infection in Dogs

Babesiosis

Canine Tick Diseases


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Again this is getting old. All the research posted states that it is a TICK disease. Your friend Lisa ....she didn't post any links ( credible sites ) that shows that this disease is sexually transmitted. All the links say the same thing it is a tick disease. all the links state that it is treatable. all the links states that it *CAN* be transfered by a bite. It is more comman in APBT and greyhounds this could be because these dogs have different shaped blood platlets....a possibilty but again it is only a speculation....just like your speculation that Tonka had this disease and Mala has this disease.

I will say again.....We are in no position to give medical dignoises over the internet.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

JFlowersLA said:


> Babesia Infection in Dogs
> 
> Babesiosis
> 
> Canine Tick Diseases


I edited your post not because you said I should swallow my pride but I do not want to get way off topic. We are already in a debate about Babesia and way off topic and I might move some of this to the Babesia sticky we already have.
I asked Cheryl to talk about Babesia because she has talked directly (and so I have) to the ppl who are testing and doing active research about Babesia. There is so much misinformation about the disease and all those link prove my point. While many talk about it spreading by tick and do touch on dog on dog transfer, they do not tell the whole story and how it related to our breed.

So yes i did ask Cheryl to talk about it because she can explain it better then me since she has been talking in length with those that are studying it.

I guess we got way off topic so sorry for the thread hi jack.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

> There is so much misinformation about the disease and all those link prove my point.


Oh my gosh Lisa I didn't realize that you are more knowledgeable than the Univeristy of North Carolina School of Veterinary Medicine. I guess we should all bow to your presence. Well until I see DVM behind your name and you post credible links that prove other wise I will stick to my veiws on the subject. I will state AGAIN we are not here to hand out medical advice.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Maybe this is a matter of semantics, which species of Babesia are you referring to when you state that it is a BLOOD BORN disease. I am referring to the Babesia gibsoni and this species is a TICK born disease.


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## performanceknls (Apr 4, 2009)

MY MIKADO said:


> Maybe this is a matter of semantics, which species of Babesia are you referring to when you state that it is a BLOOD BORN disease. I am referring to the Babesia gibsoni and this species is a TICK born disease.


No one is handing out medical advice just giving the info that is out there. We have a disclaimer on everything that is posted in the health section and it was repeatedly stated you have to test to confirm. You just refuse to listen because it is coming from me because we hardly agree. There are newer studies from the same place, where do you think we and the ADBA got it from. You really think I am making this up? The people who are dealing with this already know how it is being transmitted but I guess they know nothing.

This whole thread is talking about Babesia that is transmitted by blood transfer which can happen by several ways we have mentioned and is supported by the study and that is why I do not understand why you are arguing about this. I want the accurate info about Babesia on the site and this is taken from that same study that you are referring to.

Ticks

The presence of ticks at the time of presentation or even a history of tick attachment do not appear to be major risk factors for B. gibsoni infections in the US. The primary tick vectors for B. gibsoni, Haemaphysalis spp, have not been identified in the US. Rhipicephalussanguineus is frequently referenced as a competent vector for B. gibsoni, but definitive transmission studies have yet to be performed. The tick vector for B. canis, R.sanguineus, is very common in the US.

Fights

Having been in a fight with an American pitbull terrier (APBT) is a risk for B. gibsoni infection.

Recent Blood Transfusion

Recent blood transfusion has been associated with infection in some dogs.

Kennels

Kennels in which one B. gibsoni-infected dog is identified usually have a high prevalence of infection (10-50%). Racing greyhounds from kennels have a higher prevalence of B. canis infection than pet greyhounds.
Breeding

Transplacental or perinatal transmission is very likely, but yet to be confirmed in a controlled setting.

Splenectomy/Chemotherapy

A novel species of Babesia has been identified as a cause of thrombocytopenia, anemia, pigmenturia, and fever in dogs that have undergone a splenectomy and/or are receiving chemotherapy.


That supports what we are saying about it being able to be transfered from infected dogs by fighting, breeding, from dam to pups, and in a kennel situation. I do not see your point that it only is being spread by ticks. An infected dog no matter what gave the dog Babesia (a tick or another dog) can transmit the disease to other dogs, plain and simple. I did not really want this to be an argument I just wanted ppl to know how this can be transmitted and that dog should be checked for it. He is going to do what her he thinks is best at least we can say we offered him the info and something to test for. I hope the dog does not have it for the puppies sake, even if the dog is positive I doubt he would abort the litter.


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## CCaragan (Oct 16, 2009)

I am not going to get into your battle here. But for those of you that want to learn about Babesia you can PM me and I will send you in the right direction. 

This post I assume was to make people aware. This is more prevalent then people want to accept. I do not feel I needed to post links since you seem to have the ones you think you need.

What I do not understand is if all you know about something is from reading it on the internet what makes you an authority. Theory verses practical ?


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

Lovely cross post Lisa. This is the study I got my info from. Where are the studies that were being done in CA. Where are those links. 

Everything one does in life is a risk it is not an almost garuntee that it will happen. 

I also checked out the ABDA web site and I found nothing about this. Was it in the gazzett. If it is such a problem I would like to read more about it. I want facts and I want them substantiated. Is that too much to ask.


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

> Theory verses practical ?


It is my understanding that theory needs to be proven before it is science.

I wonder what all the proffessors of all the universities across the counrty would say to you when thay found out that they know jack because all they do is READ.


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