# HELP!!



## BrindlePit (Aug 29, 2008)

Noah was just diagnosed with food allergies. We bought the Iams vetinary mix, and he absolutely will not eat it. I was just wondering if there was any other brand that was good for dogs with food allergies.


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

what exactly is he allergic to...


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

without knowing what exactly he is allergic to we can't make any recommendations...some dogs are allergic to the oddest of ingredients until we know which one we cant tell you what foods you might want to try...


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## Elvisfink (Oct 13, 2008)

BrindlePit said:


> Noah was just diagnosed with food allergies. We bought the Iams vetinary mix, and he absolutely will not eat it. I was just wondering if there was any other brand that was good for dogs with food allergies.


I've had very good results with DickVanPatten's Natural Balance foods. They have several allergy formulas.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Canine z/d™ ULTRA Allergen-Free


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

Dog Food Reviews - Hills Prescription Z/D Ultra - Powered by ReviewPost

that is the breakdown on z/d. I know it a precription diet but it really sounds like a horrible food...starch is the first ingredient...hydrolized chicken liver is the meat source then a few ingredients later hydrolized chicken. if you look at the whole ingredient list there is no substance to this food.

there has to be something better then that with a higher meat content than that for dogs with allergies...also why do vets push such horrible foods...when i used to work at an animal hospital we were told to push hills science diet. i would never personally feed my pet anything by them.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

Have you ever used it?
The protein is broken down to such small particles that they don't cause an allergic reaction.
The idea is to start with this food (only) for three or four months and then introduce other protein sources (1 at a time for three months) to find out what food causes a reaction.
From experience the switch to duck and potatoes and or venison and green peas usually works as a food source to switch to. Unfortunately a dog can develop allergieseven on those weird protein sources but some extreme cases can and do live on ZD exclusively. There is nothing wrong with ZD except for the price.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

no i refuse to use a low quality product as hills. my dog doesnt have allergies if he did i would go with a better product. if my dog was having allergies i would have a blood panel done to find out exactly what he was allergic to and then remove that ingredient from his diet. its not even the lack of protein source that makes that product so horrible in my opinion is everything else thats in it and not in it.


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## BrindlePit (Aug 29, 2008)

The vet said we should stay away from chicken, veal, and rice. We need something quick cuz he won't eat the other stuff. We were also told try venicien(not sure about selling). thanks for all your help and suggestions


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

Brindlepit- what did the vet say your dog is allergic to?


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## BrindlePit (Aug 29, 2008)

well we just took him to the vet today and did a skin scrape. the vet said judging by his symptoms (red sensitive eyes and his hair thinning on his head) he has food allergies so i guess we won't really know for sure until the test comes back if thats even how it works.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

ohh...so it may not even be allergies it could maybe be mites?


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## BrindlePit (Aug 29, 2008)

No he specifically said that it wasn't mites and he even gave us a free sample of the vet food. He also gave noah clavamox tablets and a vetalog injection. I really really appreciate the help of this forum.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Merrick has some formulas that are different ingredients from the norm. Might be worth looking into. Taste of the Wild makes a "pacific stream" formula that is fish-based.

Merrick Pet Foods : merrickpetcare.com
Taste of the Wild : Home


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

oh okay...glad to hear its not mites those are not fun. maybe to get him to eat the new food mix a little of his old food into the new food not alot but some to get him to eat?


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

PeanutsMommy said:


> no i refuse to use a low quality product as hills. my dog doesnt have allergies if he did i would go with a better product. if my dog was having allergies i would have a blood panel done to find out exactly what he was allergic to and then remove that ingredient from his diet. its not even the lack of protein source that makes that product so horrible in my opinion is everything else thats in it and not in it.


What in your opinion makes ZD ulta low quality?

Ingredients 
Starch, hydrolyzed chicken liver, vegetable oil (preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), powdered cellulose, hydrolyzed chicken, glyceryl monostearate, DL-methionine, taurine, ethoxyquin (a preservative), minerals (dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).

The ingredients are specificaly made for the purpose of releaving extra sensitive dogs of their allergic reactions before going into food trials.

Have you done any research on the process involed in making this type of food? Do you know how much research went in to this food? I have seen it help many peoples animals that can not narrow down the ingredients that cause the food allergies. It is the best tools when doing food trials because it is well tolerated by sensitive animals. But if you have a better way with more research and development than ZD I would be intersted to learn about it.

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524441760430


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

Sampsons Dad said:


> What in your opinion makes ZD ulta low quality?
> 
> Ingredients
> Starch, hydrolyzed chicken liver, vegetable oil (preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), powdered cellulose, hydrolyzed chicken, glyceryl monostearate, DL-methionine, taurine, ethoxyquin (a preservative), minerals (dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).
> ...


i am uncomfotable with all the ingredients it sounds terrible. No I am not a labroatory that has money to research food thats a dumb question. There are blood panels that can be run that pin points the allergen. I would much rather do that IF my dog had allergies rather then feed anything by hills. BUT that is MY opinion. sorry if you took such offense to my not agreeing with hills. I used to work in an animal hospital we were told to push hills i could not bring myself to do it i just don't feel they make a quality product. BUT again this is my opinion and it wasn't meant to offend you.


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

It was not that I was offended...the issue I have is that I have heard the claims similar to yours about it being low quality yet provide no research to show that it does not work. I have seen it work time and time again if the owners did the trials correctly. 
Also I really do want to know if you had better results using another product that is a no or low allergin diet.

By the way the allergen tests are not 100%. Sometimes the allergin is an unkown even with a lot of money testing.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

I dont have a dog with an allergy to anything (i am grateful). a blood panel may have an unkown but when i worked at the animal hospital i seen people that their pets did worse on hills. now hills precription diet is really expensive and try feeding that for X amount of time you will add up quickly to the cost of the blood panel and still not have everything figured out at least with a blood panel you have better chanced of finding out what is causing the problem and sometimes it is enviromental not food realted. i have seen dogs come back with some of the strangest enviromental allergies...like dust.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Here's what I found out about some of those ingredients.

*Ethoxyquin*

A health hazard to dogs passed off as a preservative. Suffice it to say, the conscientious food companies are not using ethoxyquin anymore.

The Problem with Ethoxyquin
Ethoxyquin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < -- this one says it's a pesticide

*Hydrolyzed chicken and chicken liver*

_According to the __FDA__, hydrolyzed protein is used to enhance __flavor__ and contains __monosodium glutamate__. When added this way, the labels are __not required to list__ MSG as an ingredient._ _SOURCE_

*Powdered cellulose*

_For industrial use, cellulose is mainly obtained from __wood pulp__ and __cotton__. It is mainly used to produce __cardboard__ and __paper__; to a smaller extent it is converted into a wide variety of derivative products such as __cellophane__ and __rayon__._
_Some animals, particularly __ruminants__ and __termites__, can __digest__ cellulose with the help of __symbiotic__ micro-organisms that live in their guts. Cellulose is not digestible by __humans__ and is often referred to as '__dietary fiber__' or 'roughage', acting as a __hydrophilic__ bulking agent for __feces__. SOURCE_

I looked up *glyceryl monostearate*, and found a page with a lot of "no info available," and this is "probably not toxic." LOL


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

I heard of grass and dust! Crazy

ZD is pretty expensive.
That is why the duck and potato or Venison and peas work well for food allergy alternatives. Those wierd foods actually work very often for dogs with allergies to things like beef chix or lamb.


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

Well if he IS allergic to those things I personally would suggest Orijen 6 Fresh Fish....but it is a little expensive.

*Orijen 6 Fresh Fish*

Ingredients:
Fresh salmon (includes chinook. coho and sockeye species), salmon meal, russet potato, herring meal, fresh lake whitefish, sweet potato, fresh lake trout, fresh Northern walleye, freshwater cod, fresh herring, sunflower oil, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherals, a natural source of vitamin E), sun-cured alfalfa, dried sea vegetables (brown kelp, Irish moss, dulse and bladder wrack), leeks, psyllium, crab shell, rosemary, lecithin, apples, black currants..

TONIC HERBS AND BOTANICALS

Chicory root (FOS), licorice root, fennel seed, zea mays, peppermint leaf, marigold flowers, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, rosehips.

ORGANIC MINERALS

Iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate.

PROBIOTIC MICROORGANISMS

Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Enterococcus faecium fermentation product..

PREMIUM VITAMINS

Mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E), choline chloride, vitamin A, vitamin D3, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12, folic acid, biotin, pyridoxine (source of vitamin B6).


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## keelahsMOM (Aug 14, 2008)

my dog has food allergies to food to. i give her natures recipie venison and rice and she does well on it. I pay $42.00 for a 40lb bag at pet co. Maybe you should try it. It's not a top of the line food but i love it and it works for my baby.


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## BrindlePit (Aug 29, 2008)

I just want to thank everyone for their replies and their suggestions. I would try the Orijen food but there aren't any in our area (small state DE).I am looking into the other food's mentioned previously in the thread. Do these still give him the same nutritents and vitamins he needs or do I need add something else so he gets the proper amount. I ask because he is a lttle small he is 14 weeks and weighs 17lbs and i want him to be as healthy as he can be.


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## Sydney (Aug 14, 2007)

Good luck! Food allergies don't sound like fun, I hope you find the right food, I am sure you will!


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## Sampsons Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

BrindlePit said:


> I just want to thank everyone for their replies and their suggestions. I would try the Orijen food but there aren't any in our area (small state DE).I am looking into the other food's mentioned previously in the thread. Do these still give him the same nutritents and vitamins he needs or do I need add something else so he gets the proper amount. I ask because he is a lttle small he is 14 weeks and weighs 17lbs and i want him to be as healthy as he can be.


If the dog has really bad food allergies you dont want to add anything to the food until you narrow down the causes for the reaction. This is why food trials done properly help a lot.


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## keelahsMOM (Aug 14, 2008)

I was told that alot of the time the allergin's are CORN PEANUTS WHEAT ect. you should find him an all natural dog food with no fillers. Also remember to be careful of what doggie treats you give him because these also contain the same allergins. I can't even feed my dog store bought dog treats i have to make her's on my own. But if you find a food and try it and things don't get better then it's time to take him to the vet. Hope you and your puppy figure everything out! GOOD LUCK!!!!!


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

good points Keelahs Mom. IMO dogs should not be eating foods with fillers anyways (aaahem dog food makers). dog treats are horrible for dogs they are full of bad ingredients. the only treats Peanut gets are ice cubes (he goes crazy for them cant even say the word without him starting his tricks) and for his puppy traning i actually use his own kibbles. he doesnt know that it is not a "dogge treat" its special to him becuase its being handed to him it works for him : )


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## BrindlePit (Aug 29, 2008)

I just wanted to give everyone an update on Noah's condition. Well after we took him to the vet and waited like two weeks for some results, Noah got progressively worse. So we took him to the local Petsmart because they have a a vet hospital that has weekend hours. When the doctor first saw Noah she immediately saw that it wasn't food allergies and in fact was Dermadex, and to confirm this she did a skin scrape. So she prescribed some medication and instructed us to come back in two weeks. My question to the board is how expensive of a disease is this because I love my dog but i just dont have the income to keep going to the vet every two weeks.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

the cost depends on how bad your dog has mange and how weak or strong his immune system is and his ability to fight the mites. With my dog when he had demodex it took about 6 weeks to be cleared of the mites and i spent about $450 over that time period but I also made other changes such as I got Peanut on vitamins and a higher quality kibble.


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