# Sticky  Dave Wilson on the RE bloodline



## performanceknls

published: 10/6/2006

AS PRESIDENT of Razors Edge and one of the founders of the American Bully, I am appalled by your Oct. 3 editorial "Bully for the bulls?" Your statements are not only offensive but inaccurate.

The "Back 2 the Bullies" convention to be held tomorrow at the Fredericksburg Expo Center is not for the "celebration of the pit bull" as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull."

We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.

Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now.

The American Bully Kennel Club was created for the registry and promotion of this breed. These dogs have extremely mellow demeanors and were bred for the purpose of companionship. If you had researched the breed or the event, you might have learned more about what you were falsely commenting on.

We have been hosting these shows for more than four years now and have a great track record with major cities all over the United States. These events have all been a success, and people continue to request them in their areas. We have people flying in from all over the United States, and even confirmed guests from Japan, Italy, and the Philippines.

These events have been amazing for bringing all types of people together from all over the world--all races and all genders. The amount of public support has been overwhelming. For this area, the event is also helping the local economy. Three major hotels in this area are sold out, not to mention all the restaurants and pet stores that stand to gain business. Major pet stores, pet-feed companies, rescues, animal shelters, attorneys, and other organizations and individuals are backing and sponsoring this event.

To talk about this event in the context of young girls murdered by a serial killer is sick. How do you think the families of those children feel seeing that incident brought back up and being used in association with a dog show?

Then to talk about a sanctioned dog show in connection with a mauling by a pack of dogs running at large? The dogs that mauled Dorothy Sullivan weren't even pure pit bulls. But whatever breed they were, the tragedy has no correlation with this show. The poor woman who was mauled deserves more respect than to be brought into a commentary about a dog show. This entire editorial was plain sick.

At our event, the local animal control office maintains a booth with a donations box set up for its shelter. Also with booths are dog-rescue organizations that inform the public about all the dogs being put to sleep in shelters. Also at show we have a task force that seeks to bring to justice illegal dog fighters. We have a lady who runs programs in the low-income areas of major cities, and who helps underprivileged children through working with dogs.

We have five nonprofit organizations manning booths. As people from all over the world come to our event, we even have the local police department working there to ensure the safety of all patrons and participants.

At our event, nothing illegal is being promoted, permitted, or advertised. We have done no wrong at all. Our event simply seeks to certain promote a breed in a positive way.

Your editorial misinformed the public about the nature of "Back 2 the Bullies" and the breed it highlights.

DAVE WILSON of Spotsylvania County is president of Razor's Edge, the main company sponsoring tomorrow's Back 2 the Bullies convention.


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## cEElint

hasn't this been posted before


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## Sadie

Ugh pitbull is not a breed LOL Dave knows that hahaha. Good choice in making it sticky


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## Eagle

What gets me is that over 4 years after the President of Razor's Edge dogs admits there were crosses, and admits it's a new breed, seperate from the APBT, there are still people out there throwing them off as APBT's. 

There's a saying: It's not so much how well you start that defines you, but how you finish.

The state of the RE dogs is rather poor IMO, compared to when they began.

IMO, it's the name that catches people, not so much the dogs themselves. 
Good post for proving a point though. RE are not APBT's.


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## JayHawk

If the Bully is its own breed as Mr Wilson states then why does the ABKC for still single register any APBT or AM Staff as a Bully


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## stonerreakinhavok

it really is false advertisement when they advertise them as pits.


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## Sadie

The good thing about this forum is .. Our bully member's don't advertise their dog's as APBT's they advertise them as American Bullies. They are really good at explaining things to the newbies who don't know any better because they were lied to by a BYB or someone breeding dog's who didn't know any better. We have quite a few knowledgable bully owner's and breeder's on here who will tell you they know these dog's are not APBT's and the Bully Breeder's Like Smeper-Fi or Loud-Mouf are breeding conformationally correct bullies true to ABKC standards and they call them American Bullies and are proud to represent them as such. And yes they are a different breed with a different purpose. Our forum is very big on teaching those who don't know the difference the truth and educating about both breed's and the history that surrounds them.


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## JayHawk

" Semper Fi Bullies was established in May of 2007 with the purchase of our first female UPS/KO Cammie (Cammie passed away during an ear crop), Against All Oddz’ Mt. Suribachi aka “Suri” and Bluesteel’s Ground Pounder aka “Grunt”. Our line of American Pit Bull Terrier currently consists of only Razors Edge but plan on incorporating other bloodlines into our program.

The APBT/American Bullies are more than just dogs to us, they are our family. Our pits/bullies are loved and treated with respect. Our pets are kept in a very clean environment and all live indoors. Keeping our facilities clean is very important to the health of our pit bulls and it shows in their appearance. Proper diet is also a main concern here at Semper Fi Bullies, which is why we feed our pit bulls/bullies a high quality dog food.

Semper Fi Bullies is dedicated to improving the APBT/American Bully breed. We want to produce the kind of dogs that conform to the breed’s standard. Producing temperaments that will contradict all of the negative stereotypes associated with APBT’s. Our pits/bullies are dual registered with the U.K.C./A.B.K.C. Our pits will offer excellent temperament, health, loyalty, drive and intelligence. We strive to change the popular misconception that pit bulls do not make excellent pets.

We do not raise or sell our dogs for illegal purposes!
I will report to the proper authorities all information I gain pertaining to the abuse of animals."

what were you saying about not representing them as APBTs this is copied from his home page


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## Sadie

Well Jayhawk I have never known them to market their dog's as APBT's since they have been a member here they have always referred to their dog's as American Bullies and a few of their dog's are ABKC CH/GRCH's and I know they are heavily involved in showing with the ABKC. I don't agree with ANY bully breeder calling or referring to their dog's as American Pit bull Terriers! Not at all so they need to change the about our kennel intro on their website to reflect the fact that they own and breed American Bullies.


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## angelbaby

they do represent them as american bullys if you talk with them and are very active in the american bully world and ABKC , perhaps they put pitbull in there because alot of people still refer to them as pitbulls and telling them you have american bullys for sale would have them walk away thinking its not the dog they want when in fact it is they just dont know what they are actually called . { going off what I understand from up here in canada} most up here have no clue what an american bully is , they want a dog like mine but they think its a pitbull I say american bully and get these dumbfound looks on there faces lol. I dont see a problem with the way they advertised since they did put american bullys after everytime they said pitbull , most kennels dont even have the word bully on the site period. IDK maybe it just doesnt bother me as much but didnt find it that insulting .


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## JayHawk

My issues isnt that they refer to them as APBT but that 90% of bullies like the above are also duel registered as APBT with either the ADBA or in most cases the UKC if you want to call a bully its own breed stop duel registering the litters as APBT and Bullies


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## Sadie

And as someone who does not own bullies nor do I have the desire to own bullies. I must say Manny has some fine looking bullies that set a very good example for the American Bully breed and the bully breeder's out there trying to breed these dogs. Just giving credit where credit is due.


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## Sadie

JayHawk said:


> My issues isnt that they refer to them as APBT but that 90% of bullies like the above are also duel registered as APBT with either the ADBA or in most cases the UKC if you want to call a bully its own breed stop duel registering the litters as APBT and Bullies


Oh ok I see what you are saying. I agree I don't see the need for a bully to be registered as an APBT with the UKC/or the ADBA. But I also don't agree with the AKC Amstaff's being able to be dual registered as APBT's with the UKC/ADBA. They are a different breed today they have no business being registered as an APBT. So I can agree with you on that. But I feel the same way about the Amstaff.


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## angelbaby

OH ok I can get that , me personally the UKC is the only thing we have up here at the moment for our bullys so I wont give that up all together yet , however if the ABKC comes up here and starts getting recognized I will switch. Just being honest I do see your point though.


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## CaLi 2 B.C.

JayHawk said:


> If the Bully is its own breed as Mr Wilson states then why does the ABKC for still single register any APBT or AM Staff as a Bully


Because the registry is still kinda new and obviously you dont want the gene pool to be too small.However mid 2012 they are supposedly closing the book.


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## angelbaby

I thnk its still too small IMO and way to premature to be shutting the books already but its not my regestry so they can do as they please


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## CaLi 2 B.C.

angelbaby said:


> I thnk its still too small IMO and way to premature to be shutting the books already but its not my regestry so they can do as they please


LOL thats why i said supposedly.Hopefully they were just sayin that to encourage people to join faster.


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## JayHawk

> published: 10/6/2006
> 
> This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull."
> 
> We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> If the above statement by one of the founders is true and different breeds were used to create the am bully then to have any bully still registered with the AKC, UKC or ADBA would require fraud and bogus papers somewhere along the way
> 
> if the lineage of an am bully is pure Am Staff (AKC) APBT (ukc, ADBA) and fraud and bogus papers were not used then the am bully cannot be its own breed but only a poor representation from a standards point of view of either an Am Staff or an APBT


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## performanceknls

cEElint said:


> hasn't this been posted before


Yes but now it is a sticky



JayHawk said:


> " Semper Fi Bullies was established in May of 2007 with the purchase of our first female UPS/KO Cammie (Cammie passed away during an ear crop), Against All Oddz' Mt. Suribachi aka "Suri" and Bluesteel's Ground Pounder aka "Grunt". Our line of American Pit Bull Terrier currently consists of only Razors Edge but plan on incorporating other bloodlines into our program.
> 
> The APBT/American Bullies are more than just dogs to us, they are our family. Our pits/bullies are loved and treated with respect. Our pets are kept in a very clean environment and all live indoors. Keeping our facilities clean is very important to the health of our pit bulls and it shows in their appearance. Proper diet is also a main concern here at Semper Fi Bullies, which is why we feed our pit bulls/bullies a high quality dog food.
> 
> Semper Fi Bullies is dedicated to improving the APBT/American Bully breed. We want to produce the kind of dogs that conform to the breed's standard. Producing temperaments that will contradict all of the negative stereotypes associated with APBT's. Our pits/bullies are dual registered with the U.K.C./A.B.K.C. Our pits will offer excellent temperament, health, loyalty, drive and intelligence. We strive to change the popular misconception that pit bulls do not make excellent pets.
> 
> We do not raise or sell our dogs for illegal purposes!
> I will report to the proper authorities all information I gain pertaining to the abuse of animals."
> 
> what were you saying about not representing them as APBTs this is copied from his home page


I believe why it says APBT/Bullies is because they own both breeds they are great members here if you really want to know just PM them. They have not represented there bullies for anything other than bullies and I am pretty sure they had UKC dogs first and still do show APBT's in UKC.


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## Eagle

I've never had an interest in the "bullies", but after observation of many things, I'd say it makes no difference if they are/were registered with ADBA/UKC. History has shown that people can breed from totally game dogs and yet end up producing curs within 10 years, from any of the top game-bred bloodlines. Bullie breeders admit they breed for another purpose, and if they deliberitley discarded the traits a game breeder wants, you can be sure they are no longer APBT's. 

I RESPECT the bullie breeders who know what they have and let people know the truth about their bullies...but I'm impatient with APBT breeders who KNOW what they don't have, yet boast as though they got the best. When the time to prove it comes, they duck and put their tail between their legs (these phoney breeders).


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## JayHawk

performanceknls said:


> I believe why it says APBT/Bullies is because they own both breeds they are great members here if you really want to know just PM them. They have not represented there bullies for anything other than bullies and I am pretty sure they had UKC dogs first and still do show APBT's in UKC.


This may just be a case of a difference in opinion of what misrepresenting is, but I feel that if your bully is registered in the ADBA/UKC as an APBT than that is misrepresentation and their home page states " our pits/bullies are dual registered with the U.K.C./A.B.K.C."


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## CaLi 2 B.C.

JayHawk said:


> This may just be a case of a difference in opinion of what misrepresenting is, but I feel that if your bully is registered in the ADBA/UKC as an APBT than that is misrepresentation and their home page states " our pits/bullies are dual registered with the U.K.C./A.B.K.C."


 Words that appear on the homepage of a website are all tags when you search on google for instance.So alot of people put ABPT/Pit Bull/Bully ect on there to get hits on the tags.Ive seen a few websites that have a disclaimer explaining this before.


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## JayHawk

I understand tags but when you state that your dogs are duel registered with the UKC and abkc that is not a tag it is one dog being registered as 2 different breeds if its a bully then register it with the abkc, if its an APBT register it with the UKC or ADBA but you cant do both and then claim that the bully is a seperate breed. it is either a seperate breed registered with the abkc or a poorly out of standards APBT registered with the UKC or ADBA. you cant have your cake and eat it too


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## Sadie

I understand that most bullies at one point were ADBA/UKC registered because of the lies and controversy that started off with those dogs. But at this point now that an ABKC registry is in place for the American Bully there is no reason at all for breeder's of American Bullies to be breeding and registering their dog's as APBT's with the UKC/ADBA. That is lying and false misrepresentation. I understand where Jay hawk is coming from there. For those bullies who are ABKC registered at this point they need to forfit those UKC/ADBA paper's stating they own APBT's you can't have it both ways if you own bullies call and register them as such with the appropriate registry. If they continue to breed and Dual register their dog's with the ABKC/UKC it defeats the purpose
of even having a registry for American Bullies when you have people registering their dog's as two different breeds. I feel like the bully breeder's who are still breeding and dual registering their dog's are doing this for marketing advantage. Why else would you need to register a bully as an APBT with the ADBA/UKC? Those dog's can't compete in the show ring most of them anyway because they don't even fit the APBT standard. So what would be the point?


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## CaLi 2 B.C.

JayHawk said:


> I understand tags but when you state that your dogs are duel registered with the UKC and abkc that is not a tag it is one dog being registered as 2 different breeds if its a bully then register it with the abkc, if its an APBT register it with the UKC or ADBA but you cant do both and then claim that the bully is a seperate breed. it is either a seperate breed registered with the abkc or a poorly out of standards APBT registered with the UKC or ADBA. you cant have your cake and eat it too


With anything new (ABKC) theres always a chance of failure or something bigger/better to come along so IMO keeping UKC isnt such a bad idea not to mention lots of the classic bullys do well in the UKC.I agree tha bullys should be ABKC for the most part.There are exceptions IMO like my dog Loki hes UKC but has bully/amstaff/APBT bloodlines watchdog/greyline/Lar san/Gaffs and a lil Razors edge.He's a big scatterbred beast.He is getting dual reg with ADBA for WP thats all.Ukc has no events locally so ADBA does and thats what im doing.He also will be ABKC by the time they close the books as they are now adding WP also.


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## Sadie

I will just play devils advocate here for a minute. What if all the APBT owner's took their ADBA dog's and started breeding and dual registering them with the ABKC as American Bullies? The American Bully community wouldn't like it. I am just saying I appreciate and respect those Bully breeder's out there who are registering their dog's with the ABKC as American Bullies. I would have even much more respect if they stopped breeding and dual registering their dog's as APBT's and burned those UKC/ADBA paper's stating they own American Pit bull Terriers as those paper's are useless and are based on fraud and lies.


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## CaLi 2 B.C.

I should of added:all our other dogs will be ABKC reg only.By 2012(except Loki)Ill do whatever i have to to compete in WP with him in whatever registry offers events.Is that really a big problem?Its not like im breeding him using ADBA paperwork.


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## CaLi 2 B.C.

Also why does the ADBA even offer dual reg with UKC?


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## Sadie

Because the ADBA and the UKC both Recognize the APBT as a breed and have for a very long time. So people have the option of registering their APBT's with the UKC or the ADBA. Like i said it's BS because the AKC staff can be registered as an APBT with the UKC/ADBA but I can't take my game bred APBT's and register them with the AKC as an AKC staff. Because the AKC staff is clearly a totally different breed today they no longer are bred to the same standards as the APBT, they don't function like APBT's and they have gone a totally different direction all together. One thing I have to say about AKC Staff owner's and breeder's most of the one's I have spoken with REFUSE to register their dog's with the ADBA/UKC because they will not acknowledge the Staff as it's own breed. And a lot of these AKC staff owner's would love to compete in the UKC show ring but they won't register their dog's with the UKC until the UKC acknowledges the AKC staff as it's own breed.


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## JayHawk

CaLi 2 B.C. said:


> Also why does the ADBA even offer dual reg with UKC?


Same breed

the is a dog reg as an APBT in both registries. not registered as 2 seperates breeds as is the case with the bullies in the abkc that are also reg as APBT in another registry


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## performanceknls

Jayhawk why don't you PM Manny he will answer your questions.


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