# Breeding



## Freshkennels (Jul 29, 2012)

I breed my female june 25 and all threw that week and she not really showing she picked up some weight her tits are a lil swolling Id expect them to be down a lil more because she about 2/3weeks away from 62 days


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

{grabs popcorn and waits anxiously }


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## BullyGal (Jun 25, 2012)

...You haven't gotten her to a vet to confirm the pregnancy?


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## MSK (Aug 13, 2008)

IzzosMommy said:


> {grabs popcorn and waits anxiously }


me too!!:stupid:


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

BullyGal said:


> ...You haven't gotten her to a vet to confirm the pregnancy?


It ain't about money out it's about the flow in. Oh, for the record, sounds like the dog has money bags not teets.
Are you breeding A show quality, to show quality dog? a WP champ? Or up and coming prospect? 
What are the dogs qualifications or credentials this breeding is backed up on?
And your breeding and don't know the heat cycle, and distance? 
What aout A supplemental diet and her exercise schedule ?


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

IzzosMommy said:


> {grabs popcorn and waits anxiously }


I like you,,, will you share?


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## IzzosMommy (Mar 30, 2011)

william williamson said:


> I like you,,, will you share?


Of course =] I eat mine with garlic salt though .. =/


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## BullyGal (Jun 25, 2012)

william williamson said:


> It ain't about money out it's about the flow in. Oh, for the record, sounds like the dog has money bags not teets.
> Are you breeding A show quality, to show quality dog? a WP champ? Or up and coming prospect?
> What are the dogs qualifications or credentials this breeding is backed up on?
> And your breeding and don't know the heat cycle, and distance?
> What aout A supplemental diet and her exercise schedule ?


Shiiieeet, that's right. My bad forgot the BYB motto "Spend Less, Make More"


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

You could take her to the vet for ultrasound or xray , it will not only show if she took but tell you how many are in there if she did that way you have a good idea and won't be sitting there wondering if there are more in there or if there are even pups in there. I would treat her as if she was until you know for sure though.
Are you prepared for if she is? Do you have all the supplys on hand , have you done this before? Has momma been given prenatal vitamins during this time and proper nutrition for a pregnant bitch? If she has a small litter she can just be hiding it well and some dont have milk produce until the week she births. I would seriously consider going to a vet for an exam though to know for sure.


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## Freshkennels (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks. I will take her too the vet..


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## Freshkennels (Jul 29, 2012)

william williamson said:


> It ain't about money out it's about the flow in. Oh, for the record, sounds like the dog has money bags not teets.
> Are you breeding A show quality, to show quality dog? a WP champ? Or up and coming prospect?
> What are the dogs qualifications or credentials this breeding is backed up on?
> And your breeding and don't know the heat cycle, and distance?
> What aout A supplemental diet and her exercise schedule ?


There not for sale heres the ped I breed this male in to his daughter and gradaughter im waiting on the grandaughters pups heres the ped for him.ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [409529] :: S.D.K CODY


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Freshkennels said:


> There not for sale heres the ped I breed this male in to his daughter and gradaughter im waiting on the grandaughters pups heres the ped for him.ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [409529] :: S.D.K CODY


Well heck, they're game bred dogs, why didn't ya just say that? Not bad on paper.


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## catchrcall (Jul 8, 2012)

He's probably not coming back the way his ass got jumped before anybody knew what was going on. Y'all need to get a grip and find out before you go flying off the handle. 

I live in the working dog world, where most of the time all the health testing you get is years of service, nobody I know takes a dog to a vet to confirm pregnancy, and prenatal vitamins??? Give me a friggin break. I'm talking about serious dog people here too. Stewards of lines that go back a hundred years. Just realize that your way is not the only right way and act decent until you find out. No need to go on an internet crusade when you don't know what's on the other end. 


What is the distance of a heat cycle anyway?


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

wow catch I don't think I was rude to him at all, and if he didn't want the answers given should not post in the public. Just because "dog men" don't do proper nutrition or vitamins does not mean it is not needed, proper diet is essential whether it includes vitamins or not. I don't think I acted wrong here at all infact I believe im the only one here NOT eating popcorn, Damn guys hope you saved some with Catch in here going off I may need some .


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

catchrcall said:


> He's probably not coming back the way his ass got jumped before anybody knew what was going on. Y'all need to get a grip and find out before you go flying off the handle.
> 
> I live in the working dog world, where most of the time all the health testing you get is years of service, nobody I know takes a dog to a vet to confirm pregnancy, and prenatal vitamins??? Give me a friggin break. I'm talking about serious dog people here too. Stewards of lines that go back a hundred years. Just realize that your way is not the only right way and act decent until you find out. No need to go on an internet crusade when you don't know what's on the other end.
> 
> What is the distance of a heat cycle anyway?


this entire thread is way toned back. the questions we asked arent out of line, we have no idea who this guy is and regardless of how you feel the question asked sounded green as hell.

also, it being game bred doesnt mean anything. anyone can call Garner up with 1200 bucks and get a game bred dog.


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## Jazzy&Veronica (Mar 18, 2011)

zohawn said:


> also, it being game bred doesnt mean anything. anyone can call Garner up with 1200 bucks and get a game bred dog.


They ship to "almost any major airport in the world".


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

zohawn said:


> this entire thread is way toned back. the questions we asked arent out of line, we have no idea who this guy is and regardless of how you feel the question asked sounded green as hell.
> 
> also, it being game bred doesnt mean anything. anyone can call Garner up with 1200 bucks and get a game bred dog.


exactly , double standard or what???

Even if they are old game men and have done this for years doesn't always mean there practices are right either. I grew up with old country boys { uncles , dad there friends , grandad ect} they have ways of doing things on the farm I wouldn't call " the right way " but they been doing things for years. I can say if someone came on here with some of the methods these old game men did taking care of there pregnant bitches and whelping litters ect they would not be condoned for it. There are more then 1 right way at times but just because they have done it for years or not done it in this case does not make them Right over others.

Personally if someone is on here asking something like this then they are not one of the more experienced dog men out there. We get asked alot of questions on here like this as well and I too agree people have handled this thread alot gentler then majority of threads like this.


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

There's a difference between the SHOW dog world and the WORKING dog world......Show dog people are usually the ones who go above and beyond for their dogs and do health testing, X-rays, BAER, OFA, PRA, etc. These are people who put a lot of money into their dogs and do things the right way or what is the right way in their eyes. Now I'm talking AKC and UKC people not so much the bully world ATM. People in the bully show world who actually do health testing are few and far between still. 

As far as working dog people go it seems to me that a lot of them breed mutts or crossbreds so who the hell would health test a mutt as long as it was bred for purpose of hunting and does a great job at it then that's all the proof a working dog person needs in their eyes. Correct? 

Anyways, I know everyone has to learn some how but it's unsettling to me when people come here looking for advice on breeding. It's to bad people don't take the time to educate themselves and maybe find a mentor before throwing two dogs together and hoping for the best. JMO


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

catchrcall said:


> He's probably not coming back the way his ass got jumped before anybody knew what was going on. Y'all need to get a grip and find out before you go flying off the handle.
> 
> I live in the working dog world, where most of the time all the health testing you get is years of service, nobody I know takes a dog to a vet to confirm pregnancy, and prenatal vitamins??? Give me a friggin break. I'm talking about serious dog people here too. Stewards of lines that go back a hundred years. Just realize that your way is not the only right way and act decent until you find out. No need to go on an internet crusade when you don't know what's on the other end.
> 
> What is the distance of a heat cycle anyway?


People that breed dogs like we would/do, don't come to A website asking,,, after the dog has been bred,,, A few days to A week from drop wonder if A hookup caught or not.
As for the quality of the breeding, them old NC ******** wouldn't even give someone that came on their yard asking this type of question the time of day.
I guess I'll say this, not knowing these things and you got dogs bred like that, and you got no clue? I'll take that as an indicator as to the demise of the industry.
The rle of thumb for estrus is 7-21 days, it can happen 4-21 days. This is the full cycle. The female will determine readiness and that is usually 5-13 days.
The gestation period is 9 weeks or 63 days, I've bred several dogs and that is the pattern I have experienced.
And I learned this well before I had A female mounted. I mean really? Doesn't it make good sense? 
You gotta kow how to crack the egg to make omelettes boy, that's what they told me.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

william williamson said:


> People that breed dogs like we would/do, don't come to A website asking,,, after the dog has been bred,,, A few days to A week from drop wonder if A hookup caught or not.
> As for the quality of the breeding, them old NC ******** wouldn't even give someone that came on their yard asking this type of question the time of day.
> I guess I'll say this, not knowing these things and you got dogs bred like that, and you got no clue? I'll take that as an indicator as to the demise of the industry.
> The rle of thumb for estrus is 7-21 days, it can happen 4-21 days. This is the full cycle. The female will determine readiness and that is usually 5-13 days.
> ...


:clap: must spread some love , tried to rep you for this, good post.


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## catchrcall (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm just saying that we shouldn't act like there's only one way to do things, and immediately start the name calling and condescending questions as soon as somebody posts. When I had my recent litter, there were no prenatal vitamins, no vet visits prior to birth, nothing fancy with regards to diet for mom, and the puppies lived in a horse trailer after they were born. I have five healthy pups, (of course mother and pups are up to date on shots and wormer) and mother and pups are doing fine. The parents weren't shown, weren't purebred, weren't titled, and haven't won a thing in their entire lives. They're just good dogs. Did I do things the over the top expensive way ? No. Did everything turn out well? Yes. 

I don't know the OP at all, he may have great dogs, he may have trash I don't know. But I will say that a great way to NOT teach somebody, internet or not is to run them off as soon as they ask a question.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

I was turned off when I read the question. 
Then I checked out the dogs, that's some of the top blood coursing through them.
And to be breeding it,,, and not knowing,ami not entitled to be mortified at such as this?
Or is mortified, appalled, turned off, what ever only reserved for people new to the site? 
Some of the things people ask are A real punch in the balls, and I'm not the grin and bare it kinda guy.


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

Freshkennels said:


> There not for sale heres the ped I breed this male in to his daughter and gradaughter im waiting on the grandaughters pups heres the ped for him.ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [409529] :: S.D.K CODY


Oh, and this kind of dog isn't just A random acquisition. 
That's game dog blood, and close enough that I'm gonna assume, that the blood, the fact that they won't be sold, which he said in his post, leads me to believe they aren't just gonna be lap dogs.
You give me blood like that, and I breed it, I may not roll them out,you can bet I'd be interested to know how they did when they did get put in show.


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## angelbaby (Feb 4, 2010)

catchrcall said:


> I'm just saying that we shouldn't act like there's only one way to do things, and immediately start the name calling and condescending questions as soon as somebody posts. When I had my recent litter, there were no prenatal vitamins, no vet visits prior to birth, nothing fancy with regards to diet for mom, and the puppies lived in a horse trailer after they were born. I have five healthy pups, (of course mother and pups are up to date on shots and wormer) and mother and pups are doing fine. The parents weren't shown, weren't purebred, weren't titled, and haven't won a thing in their entire lives. They're just good dogs. Did I do things the over the top expensive way ? No. Did everything turn out well? Yes.
> 
> I don't know the OP at all, he may have great dogs, he may have trash I don't know. But I will say that a great way to NOT teach somebody, internet or not is to run them off as soon as they ask a question.


I get what you are saying and I thought I was relaxed with him compared to some comments lol. 
The way you did your breeding though Im assuming were for working dogs / hog dogs kind of thing. The majority of people who come on here though talking about breeding there mutts and unpapered dogs are not breeding for what you are they are just breeding mutts with no purpose. If the OP had written a bit more detail on the breeding I feel he would have gotten alot different responses from Some. I still don't feel people were that rough in this thread at all, they asked some questions and passed around some popcorn lol how is that running him off? If he is in this breed for any length of time im sure he has thick skin by now and can shake a few sarcastic responses off, if not aren't these the type you all cry to cull?


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## catchrcall (Jul 8, 2012)

Well played. 

I do cry cull a lot, but I also forget that some don't do it, which is another side of having a litter. 

The point I guess I'm trying to make is that if the guy is asking a question, why not answer the question rather than grill him about why he bred. It's too late for that now. It could have been somebody like me, that does things differently from what most consider the norm, yet works dogs more than most people do. 

It was a green question, but it could have been something that he just hasn't run into before, unless I'm misunderstanding somehow. The day I learn everything there is to know about dogs is the day I hang it up.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

catchrcall said:


> I live in the working dog world, where most of the time all the health testing you get is years of service, nobody I know takes a dog to a vet to confirm pregnancy, and prenatal vitamins??? Give me a friggin break. I'm talking about serious dog people here too. Stewards of lines that go back a hundred years. Just realize that your way is not the only right way and act decent until you find out. No need to go on an internet crusade when you don't know what's on the other end.


Don't bother, most here have never fed what you speak of nor do they have a use for such. Thus, do not understand it takes a healthy animal to successfully and consistently for years do their designed purpose.. The weak get culled, the curs get culled.

The healthiest animals i've ever known, including my own yard(s) over the years weren't bred for show or pet. Little to no health testing.. Its the animals designed and used for a functional purpose along with fundamental basic care and compassion.



Blue_Nose_Bella said:


> As far as working dog people go it seems to me that a lot of them breed mutts or crossbreds so who the hell would health test a mutt as long as it was bred for purpose of hunting and does a great job at it then that's all the proof a working dog person needs in their eyes. Correct?


What are you talking about? Most are "purebred" dogs, many use mutts for trail, strike and catch dogs however that doesn't make up the entire picture. Unless you consider high end Bulldogs, Dogos, Bandogs, (Such as Presas, Corsos, etc) or military type animals such as Mali, GSD, etc all mutts.. There are plenty of breeds still being bred traditionally and used.

If you want to direct it specifically towards hunting associated type work, some of the most popular animals to bred and use are various **** hounds, labs, black mouth curs, Bulldogs, Dogos, and beagles.

Are there mutts? Yep, most popular around my these parts are Bulldog mixed with Lab, BMC or Dane. Cattle dogs are also common mixes and of course Catahoula Leopard Dogs...


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## Blue_Nose_Bella (Jan 16, 2011)

KMdogs said:


> What are you talking about? Most are "purebred" dogs, many use mutts for trail, strike and catch dogs however that doesn't make up the entire picture. Unless you consider high end Bulldogs, Dogos, Bandogs, (Such as Presas, Corsos, etc) or military type animals such as Mali, GSD, etc all mutts.. There are plenty of breeds still being bred traditionally and used.
> 
> If you want to direct it specifically towards hunting associated type work, some of the most popular animals to bred and use are various **** hounds, labs, black mouth curs, Bulldogs, Dogos, and beagles.
> 
> Are there mutts? Yep, most popular around my these parts are Bulldog mixed with Lab, BMC or Dane. Cattle dogs are also common mixes and of course Catahoula Leopard Dogs...


From what I've seen with the strike and catch dogs on this forum as well as others their seems to be a lot of mixed breeds that are used for that purpose. I was just basically stating and responding to other's responses that your not going to find breeders who breed for working purposes health testing mutts. These people know what they have and have seen what the dogs can do for them so they breed because of the "purpose' the dog is serving them without all the fancy health testing. However, I understand that some use purebred dogs as well but I've noticed the majority I see over the net and on dog forums use some type of mixed breed to get the job done.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

catchrcall said:


> I'm just saying that we shouldn't act like there's only one way to do things, and immediately start the name calling and condescending questions as soon as somebody posts. When I had my recent litter, there were no prenatal vitamins, no vet visits prior to birth, nothing fancy with regards to diet for mom, and the puppies lived in a horse trailer after they were born. I have five healthy pups, (of course mother and pups are up to date on shots and wormer) and mother and pups are doing fine. The parents weren't shown, weren't purebred, weren't titled, and haven't won a thing in their entire lives. They're just good dogs. Did I do things the over the top expensive way ? No. Did everything turn out well? Yes.
> 
> I don't know the OP at all, he may have great dogs, he may have trash I don't know. But I will say that a great way to NOT teach somebody, internet or not is to run them off as soon as they ask a question.


When the post basic questions that anyone who is breeding should already know.. Well it kinda leaves them open for it.

To me its not the dogs hes breeding, but his lack of knowledge on breeding. If you don't have the knowledge to know about the litter your creating I doubt you have the knowledge for follow up care and placing the dogs. These people get their question answered and then care no less about "our way" that so many think it is rather than the responsible way which has much variation and we support the responsible way.


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## KMdogs (Apr 22, 2011)

Blue_Nose_Bella said:


> From what I've seen with the strike and catch dogs on this forum as well as others their seems to be a lot of mixed breeds that are used for that purpose. I was just basically stating and responding to other's responses that your not going to find breeders who breed for working purposes health testing mutts. These people know what they have and have seen what the dogs can do for them so they breed because of the "purpose' the dog is serving them without all the fancy health testing. However, I understand that some use purebred dogs as well but I've noticed the majority I see over the net and on dog forums use some type of mixed breed to get the job done.


I get what your saying but what is on the internet world isn't always whats out there. As far as the internet goes, i may as well not exist since i'm only on this forum and especially come this fall it will be little in between.

There are a good bit of mutts getting it done but there are also plenty of handlers using purebred hounds that get it done.. Ain't no substitute for a high end Bulldog or Bandog getting on some large game.

Theres a reason why when you are using traditional stock for (mostly) intended purposes, why theres no need to health test your stock. Unhealthy animals, mutt or not, slow down or don't cut it in the field. Mentally and physically must be sound.

As to the topic of this thread, no one that knows what they have or knows what they are doing will bring it up to a forum for guidance, approval or anything else. They know what they have and keep their mouths shut and let the hounds do the talking.. How it should be.


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## zohawn (Jun 8, 2011)

*To me its the the dogs hes breeding, but his lack of knowledge on breeding.* If you don't have the knowledge to know about the litter your creating I doubt you have the knowledge for follow up care and placing the dogs. These people get their question answered and then care no less about "our way" that so many think it is rather than the responsible way which has much variation and we support the responsible way.[/QUOTE]

it was a basic question and the caliber of dogs he has makes me wonder.

hes probably laughing at all of this though lol. the way you guys get bent out of shape has made me laugh for whats most likely countless nights. i think catch jumped the gun here but theres been some threads where im just like "come on guys" lol.


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## catchrcall (Jul 8, 2012)

I probably did, but I could see it coming. Mention puppy on one of these forums and it creates such a wailing and gnashing of teeth that people can't just relax and enjoy a few pictures of infant dogs.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

zohawn said:


> American_Pit13 said:
> 
> 
> > *To me its the the dogs hes breeding, but his lack of knowledge on breeding.* If you don't have the knowledge to know about the litter your creating I doubt you have the knowledge for follow up care and placing the dogs. These people get their question answered and then care no less about "our way" that so many think it is rather than the responsible way which has much variation and we support the responsible way.
> ...


I miss typed that. The first sentence should read *"Its not the dogs he's breeding, but his lack of knowledge on breeding."*


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

catchrcall said:


> I probably did, but I could see it coming. Mention puppy on one of these forums and it creates such a wailing and gnashing of teeth that people can't just relax and enjoy a few pictures of infant dogs.


A lot of us have to deal with so many infant dogs covered in fleas and full of worms we hate to see them born to people that are clueless.

Now I am not as hard core rescue as most and i do agree that the mentioning of puppies or breeding's usually send of a chain reaction, but we have had those that return make their statements and show us that they know what they are doing.

We have several breeders here and all were new at one point. There is initiation like anywhere else. You don't just sign up and everyone takes your word of what your up to. Like I said with basic questions like this its just a red flag of why are they breeding if they don't know this?


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

This is how I am. Don't take my mint condition 1986 GSXR, even if you buy it, do something heinous, like try to port and polish the head, cams etc, then after you've made A mess, ask me how to fix it. Oh, I can't seat the valves, how do you degree the cams to pull it out of the hole to 60 ft, and let the gear take the mid and the carb tune run the top of the 1/4 mile.
If you don't understand that, should you be playing God mechanic?
Well, if' ya ain't got A clue about the procreation process, keep the dogs hammer in his pouch til ya do. Don't take it out and fram up something then ask the World Wide Web to help you fix it.


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