# Hi protien food good for puppies?



## Fire4Life (Feb 3, 2009)

*Hi protien not suitable for puppies?*

Racking my brain trying to choose a good food for my puppy  Ive searched and searched and finally narrowed it down to three choices:

1. Orijen
2. Innova
3. Taste of the Wild

However, ive heard many good things about all three but still confused on the Puppy Vs. Adult mixes. I know TOTW is an all age food but is that better than the other brands with puppy and adult versions? Also ive read the analysis site and all the reviews say "High protien may not be suitable for puppies" 

I know all of these choises are expensive and I can say now that I dont care and want the best. However I really dont know how fast these bags will go. If anyone can give me an idea on how long maybe a 30lb bag lasts feeding 3 cups a day or so that would be GREAT!!


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

I been feeding Evo since 7 months I started feeding blue wilderness at 5 months and have had no negative issues. Peanut is in better shape then my brother's puppy that is a week older then him that eats a different food.
I only feed 2 cups a day. You can feed less on these foods there are no fillers so they absorb more of the nutrients from the food therefore they dont need as much to fill them up. I buy the 13 pound bag and it lasts me 3 weeks.
Dogs need protein.

Canine Dog Nutritional Needs. Proteins, Lupids, Sugar, Minerals


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## Jblondie813 (Oct 1, 2008)

I swear by Taste of the Wild!! I have tried so many different foods with my first dog. He was so picky! His coat is the BEST its ever been and our pup is growing SO FAST! They both love it! Its great and its good for the $$.

Protein is a MUST for growing puppies!! We have our dogs on a high protein diet. We take them on lots of walks and runs. And the puppy definitely needs a lot of protein so he can grow big and strong!


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## Marty (Dec 10, 2005)

Jblondie813 said:


> Protein is a MUST for growing puppies!! We have our dogs on a high protein diet. We take them on lots of walks and runs. And the puppy definitely needs a lot of protein so he can grow big and strong!


I agree 100%


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## melrosdog (Dec 21, 2008)

I feed Innova puppy. Ellis is 6 months old and eats about 2 cups a day. The 15 # bag lasts me about a month. Cost $27. I think that is pretty resonable, and he is doing great on it. His coat is very shiney.


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## Fire4Life (Feb 3, 2009)

Yea thats what I thought about the protien diet, its just weird that the analysis site says that about many of the top rated foods for puppies. I can't find anyone that sells Orijen in my area so that choice might be out...i really dont want to have dog food shipped to my house not to mention the added cost. Kirkland is also a choice I had in mind if it gets too expensive. It sounds like a really good food for how cheap it is! 

Ive also heard of the NuVet vitamens that a lot of people use but I think it might be overkill. I really just want a food I can give that is healthy enough to not have to worry about suplementing.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

Fire4Life said:


> Ive also heard of the NuVet vitamens that a lot of people use but I think it might be overkill. I really just want a food I can give that is healthy enough to not have to worry about suplementing.


I use nu vet vitamins because when Peanut was young he had demodex and I wanted to get him on something that would strengthen his immune system. They seemed to help him because he cleared the mites very quickly the vet seemed disappointed that he got better so much quicker..only a few weeks. I have been happy with the results of them. I feed Evo and wilderness. I have looked at Orijen but not 100% sold on it I have also looked into Merrick BG and still not sold on it either. Peanut gets really excited over Evo Red Meat


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## jeep lex (Jan 29, 2009)

I just started feeding wellness and and lexi really likes it, its a 5 star food so i guess thats high quality the 15lb bag last me about a month at a lil under 2 cups a day


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

i am feeding orijen as well.. i hve been since kenya was 4 months old, she is now almost 8months  she is doing great on it. bright eyes, shiny coat, and super muscular


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

Fire4Life said:


> Racking my brain trying to choose a good food for my puppy  Ive searched and searched and finally narrowed it down to three choices:
> 
> 1. Orijen
> 2. Innova
> ...


Its really about the grain free foods that are not good for puppies they just dont have all the nutrients a growing puppy needs. For example like a Evo or Wellness Core not a good food for a puppy to high in protein since they are grain free foods.. The other mentioned foods are all good, I personally go with Innova I use there Large Breed Puppy formula but an other great food is eagle Pack Holistic I have been using that food for my 11 yr old Lab and he looks great I use there senior mix but they have all kinds, poeple always think he is about 5 or 6 yrs old his coat looks amazing and he is pretty muscular for an older dog. On my Pit pup he is only 9 weeks old but I got him off of Kirkland that the breeder used and went into the Innova.. Hope that helps


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## Nizmo (Jan 15, 2009)

Rico said:


> Its really about the grain free foods that are not good for puppies they just dont have all the nutrients a growing puppy needs. For example like a Evo or Wellness Core not a good food for a puppy to high in protein since they are grain free foods.. The other mentioned foods are all good, I personally go with Innova I use there Large Breed Puppy formula but an other great food is eagle Pack Holistic I have been using that food for my 11 yr old Lab and he looks great I use there senior mix but they have all kinds, poeple always think he is about 5 or 6 yrs old his coat looks amazing and he is pretty muscular for an older dog. On my Pit pup he is only 9 weeks old but I got him off of Kirkland that the breeder used and went into the Innova.. Hope that helps


why do you use large breed puppy food?


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## thaim (Feb 6, 2009)

i find TOTW better. i switched from innova evo to TOTW cuz it was getting expensive. i started to notice a a big change in how he looked in size because he would eat more of it then he would with innova evo. but i guess every dog is different.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

I been feeding Evo since Peanut was a younger puppy around 6 months old. I been really happy with it and so has he.

TOTW is made by Diamond I dont know if I am comfortable with that.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

I switched to TOTW a few weeks ago and we have just about finished a 30 lb bag (I have two adult dogs and feed about 2 cups a day each). Loki's coat looked good while on the Canidae, but it looks AMAZING now. Not to mention his skin seems to be healthier than ever and _*my*_ skin doesn't react to his natural oils like it used to. I used to get red and itchy on my forearms wherever my skin came in contact with him but that has stopped since TOTW, maybe coincidence, maybe not.

Personally, with TOTW being a 6-star and only slightly more expensive than Canidae L&R which is only a 4-star TOTW is about as good a bang you're going to get for your buck.

As for it being a Diamond product, I used to work for sandwich manufacturing company and when we did have to recall a product they upped their Q&A (quality and assurance) big time. I would say a post-recall product is a safe product because no company wants to have that reputation. JMO.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

i definately agree about the post recall but you know for me its always in the back of my mind.
I fed nutro and due to their recall I dont trust them anymore and could not use any of their products because my boy was having issues with them. That is just ME though. They may be great now but I just dont trust them any longer.


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

Carriana said:


> his coat looked good while on the Canidae, but it looks AMAZING now. Not to mention his skin seems to be healthier than ever and _*my*_ skin doesn't react to his natural oils like it used to. I used to get red and itchy on my forearms wherever my skin came in contact with him but that has stopped since TOTW, maybe coincidence, maybe not. .


\
i thought it was jsut me!!!!! i sued to get that when i played woth chyna (when my landlord was feedin her crap) and since i switched her to orijen it doesnt bother me.... i really think its the food


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se said:


> \
> i thought it was jsut me!!!!! i sued to get that when i played woth chyna (when my landlord was feedin her crap) and since i switched her to orijen it doesnt bother me.... i really think its the food


Phew! I thought I was crazy  I think it even makes them smell better too - less of that stinky dog smell!


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

Nizmo357 said:


> why do you use large breed puppy food?


I am still a newbie to pitbulls but for my pup his dad is 120lb and the mom is 95lb.. The dad is all muscle too not a FATTY he is just wide and super thick he is just a freak 26 inch head he looks all I can say crazy he is pretty well know here in NJ since his litters are always monsters. So with that in mind I believe Rico will at least be 90lbs he is huge at 8 weeks right now my lab at 8 weeks was not this size and he is 100lbs so with that the Large breed Formula is better suited for him little lower in calcium and other things so the puppy doesnt have bone spurts since he is growing fast on his own it also has the protein that he needs and other nutrients.. So that is why I choose it but it all depends on the weight according to Innova there puppy formula good for dogs that are gona be up to 70lbs anything bigger large breed..


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## Fire4Life (Feb 3, 2009)

Rico said:


> Its really about the grain free foods that are not good for puppies they just dont have all the nutrients a growing puppy needs. For example like a Evo or Wellness Core not a good food for a puppy to high in protein since they are grain free foods.. The other mentioned foods are all good, I personally go with Innova I use there Large Breed Puppy formula but an other great food is eagle Pack Holistic I have been using that food for my 11 yr old Lab and he looks great I use there senior mix but they have all kinds, poeple always think he is about 5 or 6 yrs old his coat looks amazing and he is pretty muscular for an older dog. On my Pit pup he is only 9 weeks old but I got him off of Kirkland that the breeder used and went into the Innova.. Hope that helps


So your saying the grain free foods are not good for puppies?? Ive read the exact opposite about grain free foods and have heard nothing but good things about Orijen which is what im probably going to go with. Just haven't decided to go with the regular puppy or large breed formula.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Fire4Life said:


> So your saying the grain free foods are not good for puppies?? Ive read the exact opposite about grain free foods and have heard nothing but good things about Orijen which is what im probably going to go with. Just haven't decided to go with the regular puppy or large breed formula.


It really depends on the age of your puppy. Pups do a mojority of their growing in the first 6 months. Puppy formulas normally contain more calories which are helpful in giving their body fuel for all that growing. I am not really sure a large breed formula is appropriate for a APBT since they only get to be around 30-70 lbs full grown - so are technically medium sized dogs. However if you've got a bully pup and expect him to get up around 100 lbs you could go with a large breed forumla, but I wouldn't say it should make much difference. The regular formula would probably be fine. JMO


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

ok first of all, our dogs are _*not*_ considered large breed dogs. even if they reach 100-120 lbs they do not meet the criteria for a large breed. apbt and ambullies are short dogs. when they are talking about large breed they are talking about hieght and weight ratios. like a german shepard. his back reaches a hieght that apbts, amstaff, ambullies will never reach. mastiffs are just huge all together please get your dog off large breed formula it will do more damage than good

also, grian fee food are better becuase it is how the k9s would eat if they were in the wild. grain is just carbs and that just fattens the body up. no reason for it if u want your dog to be lean and muscualr u dont need the grains. i feed orijen and have been for a while now, and kenya is in perfect health. bright eyes and shiny coat.

also, if grain free is so bad, why is orijen rated a 6star food??? think its time for a little research fellas...


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

bump.... just making sure yall read up on large breed formula.....


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## BrandonHalee&Destiney (Feb 20, 2009)

yes ofcourse just not too much until your pup gets older because they cant digest protein all that well yet until like 6 months or so.


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se said:


> ok first of all, our dogs are _*not*_ considered large breed dogs. even if they reach 100-120 lbs they do not meet the criteria for a large breed. apbt and ambullies are short dogs. when they are talking about large breed they are talking about hieght and weight ratios. like a german shepard. his back reaches a hieght that apbts, amstaff, ambullies will never reach. mastiffs are just huge all together please get your dog off large breed formula it will do more damage than good
> 
> also, grian fee food are better becuase it is how the k9s would eat if they were in the wild. grain is just carbs and that just fattens the body up. no reason for it if u want your dog to be lean and muscualr u dont need the grains. i feed orijen and have been for a while now, and kenya is in perfect health. bright eyes and shiny coat.
> 
> also, if grain free is so bad, why is orijen rated a 6star food??? think its time for a little research fellas...


Of course grain free is better but not for a puppy, we are talking under 6 months if you think large breed formula will do harm. Feeding a puppy grain free high protein food that will do harm.. After that yeah grain free is the way to go which is why I said Wellness Core, Evo etc etc all grain free foods..

But please explain to me how a bull mastiff that weighs lets say 100lbs is diffrent from a APBT that weighs 100lb they are both 100lb cause the mastiff is taller that is a large breed.. If you have true info please share it I am going by what Holistic Vets have told me.. But if you have other info great.. Remember as I stated it depends on your dog for most APBT yes reg puppy formula is fine but like anything else depends on your dog and his needs..


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

I think she meant grain free in general. Correct me if I am wrong, but not all grain free foods are going to be high protein. Most might tend towards high protein but the absence of grains is a natural diet for K9s as she mentioned before, but that doesn't mean they don't use other non-grain foods as binders and fillers. Like potatoes, sweet potatoes, berries, etc.


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

Carriana said:


> I think she meant grain free in general. Correct me if I am wrong, but not all grain free foods are going to be high protein. Most might tend towards high protein but the absence of grains is a natural diet for K9s as she mentioned before, but that doesn't mean they don't use other non-grain foods as binders and fillers. Like potatoes, sweet potatoes, berries, etc.


Yeah but we are talking specifically for puppies not adult dogs. But actually yes all the grain free foods are very high in protein they are the only way to go in my book, I am just saying not for a young pup..


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

American Pit Bull Terriers are NOT 100lbs. American Bullies maybe.

growing puppies need high quality animal protein in their diet to grow healthy and strong. Growing dogs you need to watch for calcium and phosphate for proper growth that is why you dont feed a large breed food to a medium breed dog.


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

like i said, in order to be considered a large breed dog its _*hieght and weight ratios.*_ i garentee u a100lbs ambully is overweight compared to a 100lbs mastiff. IMHO 100lb dogs arent healthy unless that is was the gene calls for. Ambullys were created to be that way... most of the time they can shed a few pounds and be healthier... when the ambullies hit 90, 100, 110 lbs there comes ALOT of health probs that you can aviod whth jsut keeping the dogs weight down to the 70s or 80s...

also, i have been feeding my pupp (she is now 7.5months) orijen since i brougt her home. and she has been growing great. info on grain fee food

_Dogs and cats did not evolve to eat grains... so why include grains in pet food? 
Grains first appeared in pet foods about 70 years ago when consumers wanted the convenience of pet food in a bag and manufacturers wanted to reduce costs with inexpensive calories from grains.

Although grains such as rice or wheat provide low-cost calories, their high carbohydrate content contributes to obesity, diabetes and a host of other health problems in cats and dogs.

Indeed, veterinarians are increasingly citing grains and carbohydrates as primary causes of health problems common to dogs and cats.

And although it overlooks the most fundamental purpose of pet food (to provide nourishment) the "grain-and-carbohydrate" approach to pet nutrition is still widely practiced due to the lower cost, ready availability and long shelf life that grains provide. Unfortunately, dogs and cats care nothing for these benefits. _

kenya (my pup)is one of the healthiest pups that have come into the police dept. training. and that has come from the PDs vet, who deals with all the working dogs in my dept. so grain free food has done nothing but benfit kenya in her gorwin and working abilities. grains, like said above, are just to fatten up dogs and cheapen dog food


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

bump..........waiting for a response from rico.........


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

I have also read that too much protein is not good, for any dog, puppy or adult, unless they get enough exercise to burn it up. That is why I use Innova. The protein percentage is around the 24% range, and that is because I don't work my dog that much. If I was into working him alot, then I'd go with Evo or Orijen, since those are in the 40% range.

As far as how much the bag lasts, with Innova Adult I would say it lasts me 1 1/2 months. I'm currently feeding my boy 4 cups a day, and I bought this bag on 01/30/09.

Here's a tally of what I have spent and fed, and which type of food.










The above numbers averaged out makes my cost: $30.90 per month. However, if you only count the Innova for the previous 3 months, my cost is: $50.14 per month.

**All prices are with tax included  And yes I know, I'm a Nerd.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

thats pretty cool actually that you keep track of things like that. i wish i had a setup like that


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

PeanutsMommy said:


> thats pretty cool actually that you keep track of things like that. i wish i had a setup like that


Do you have Microsoft Excel? I can email you the file, and then you can simply plug in your numbers.


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

dang!i dont have a product key  my husband sent me this computer i have to wait til he gets home see if he has one.
excel told me without the product key i can only use it 25 times is there anyway around that?

that would be so cool to do with everything. i could better manage our monthly budget!


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

NesOne said:


> I have also read that too much protein is not good, for any dog, puppy or adult, unless they get enough exercise to burn it up. That is why I use Innova. The protein percentage is around the 24% range, and that is because I don't work my dog that much. If I was into working him alot, then I'd go with Evo or Orijen, since those are in the 40% range.
> 
> _  And yes I know, I'm a Nerd._


you are right about too much protein... but the reason i chose orijen is because kenya is a working dog. we do alot every day that burns off the extra. sure, she isnt pulling weight, but she is very active with shutz and training going along with the pd, and everyday runs, and weekend hikes. would love to pick up a slat/carpet mill to get her really going but for now, she is burning it off quiet well.

BUT.. going back to "grain free being bad"... im still waiting for rico.......:hammer:


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se said:


> you are right about too much protein... but the reason i chose orijen is because kenya is a working dog. we do alot every day that burns off the extra. sure, she isnt pulling weight, but she is very active with shutz and training going along with the pd, and everyday runs, and weekend hikes. would love to pick up a slat/carpet mill to get her really going but for now, she is burning it off quiet well.
> 
> BUT.. going back to "grain free being bad"... im still waiting for rico.......:hammer:


Relax...lol Just got home from a double with my PD and they working me like a dog.... Maybe you misunderstood me I am not saying our breed is considered a large breed I am saying depending on your dog needs which is exaclty what you just said.. A high protein food is not for the avg puppy and you agreed but you feed yours EVO cause he is a working dog.. Now any Vet will tell you high protein food is not good for a puppy but it depends on your dog.. Even with my Lab he is really not considered a large or giant breed and he was raised on Large breed puppy food he is super fit he weighs 100lbs and is very muscular not fat and he is 11 yrs old now and peole still think he is 5 or 6 yrs old.. Like I said my info came from a family friend who is a Holistic Vet aswell as if you call Innova they have nutritionists you can speak to which I did before I switched to Innova and they do suggest there Large Breed Formula for a APBT that will be above 70lb..

Also please tell me where i said GRAIN FREE FOOD IS BAD!!!!! In my first post I suggested EVO, Welness Core as two great choices for food they are both GRAIN FREE.... So I dont understand why you think I said Grain Free is BAD???


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

PeanutsMommy said:


> dang!i dont have a product key  my husband sent me this computer i have to wait til he gets home see if he has one.
> excel told me without the product key i can only use it 25 times is there anyway around that?
> 
> that would be so cool to do with everything. i could better manage our monthly budget!


Unfortunately, I don't think so. Unless you have an Office 2000 cd, and it is compatible on Vista (I'm assuming you have Vista) If you have XP, then try and find Office 2000, which you can probably find the product key alot easier, and no need for online registration.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

NesOne said:


> I have also read that too much protein is not good, for any dog, puppy or adult, unless they get enough exercise to burn it up. That is why I use Innova. The protein percentage is around the 24% range, and that is because I don't work my dog that much. If I was into working him alot, then I'd go with Evo or Orijen, since those are in the 40% range.
> 
> As far as how much the bag lasts, with Innova Adult I would say it lasts me 1 1/2 months. I'm currently feeding my boy 4 cups a day, and I bought this bag on 01/30/09.
> 
> ...


OMG I love this! I am in accounting and use excel all day every day - +1 to you for being a fellow spreadsheet geek


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

Rico said:


> Also please tell me where i said GRAIN FREE FOOD IS BAD!!!!! In my first post I suggested EVO, Welness Core as two great choices for food they are both GRAIN FREE.... So I dont understand why you think I said Grain Free is BAD???
> *"Its really about the grain free foods that are not good for puppies they just dont have all the nutrients a growing puppy needs."*
> 
> Like I said my info came from a family friend who is a Holistic Vet aswell as if you call Innova they have nutritionists you can speak to which I did before I switched to Innova and they do suggest there Large Breed Formula for a APBT that will be above 70lb..


idk, i think being grain free is a better choice for k9s just becuz thats how they would eat if they werent domesticated. BUT high protien ISNT for every dog. just depends of ur lifestyle and how u incorporate a high protien diet with your dog.

also, APBTs arent meant to be 70lbs. If your talking Ambully, i see the confusion to feed large breed. looks like alot of people that own ambullies try to play it off that they own a large breed dog. which in reality they own a _heavy_ dog.

also for labs (took this right off the ukc website)
_Standard height for mature males is 22½ to 24½ inches and for mature females, 21½ to 23½ inches. A correctly built Labrador Retriever male in working condition should weigh between 65 and 80 pounds and a female should weigh between 55 and 70 pounds. _

apbt:
_The American Pit Bull Terrier must be both powerful and agile so actual weight and height are less important than the correct proportion of *weight to height.* Desirable weight for a mature male in good condition is between 35 and 60 pounds. Desirable weight for a mature female in good condition is between 30 and 50 pounds. Dogs over these weights are not to be penalized unless they are disproportionately massive or rangy._

now take the average hieght of an apbt and the average hieght of a lab...YOUR LAB IS WAY TALLER. also, look at the weigth standards... ur lookin at a 20lb diffence in either sex... they lab is a larger breed all together. therefor requires large breed dog food..

also, i feed orijen not evo:roll:


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

70 while high end isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility for an adult male APBT, depending on the bloodlines. I wouldn't automatically assume AmBully if I heard 70 lbs. 80 lbs however....is pushing the envelope.


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

Carriana said:


> 70 while high end isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility for an adult male APBT, depending on the bloodlines. I wouldn't automatically assume AmBully if I heard 70 lbs. 80 lbs however....is pushing the envelope.


well yes, i agree that its not CRAZY out of the standard... but i bet ya, the dog can stand to lose a few lbs


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

well i have heard if u drink gallons of water at a time, it will dilute something in ur system and u can actually drown.... dont know how much of it is an urban ledgen tho lol


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## Fire4Life (Feb 3, 2009)

Thank you all so much for the great info! I didnt want to start an argument but its good to hear two opinions. As for my puppy...he is an ambully but I dont see him getting over 100lbs. He will however be getting frequent excersise and walks, but even if he didn't how could the extra protien hurt him? Like Infinity said, whatever is not used is just passed. I really would like to feed Orijen and I think after reading im gonna go with the regular puppy version.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

infinity8x3 said:


> Now in my profession I can tell you as far as humans go there is no such thing as to much water. If for some reason you ingested to much water for your body to handle you throw up no harm no foul but it does take an idiot to drink that much.


I beg to differ, sir: Dated 01/14/07 Woman Dies from Drinking too Much Water

_CNN reported on a woman who died Friday from drinking too much water. Jennifer Strange (28) was participating in a radio station's "Hold Your Wee for a Wii" contest to see who could drink the most water before having to go to the bathroom. The condition that results from over-hydrating, hyponatremia, sometimes is seen in infants who are given bottles of water to drink (not a good plan) and also in some athletes who drink as much water as they can before exercising (e.g., marathon runners).

It's important to stay hydrated, but how do you know if you're overdoing it? One of the first signs of water intoxication is swelling. If your fingers start to get puffy where your rings become tight, that could indicate a problem. Other symptoms of hyponatremia are nausea and dizziness. If you experience these symptoms and suspect water intoxication, stop drinking more water (that part should be obvious) and seek medical attention. Eat some food to replace the electrolytes (salts) that are being diluted by the water._


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

Fire4Life said:


> Thank you all so much for the great info! I didnt want to start an argument but its good to hear two opinions. As for my puppy...he is an ambully but I dont see him getting over 100lbs. He will however be getting frequent excersise and walks, but even if he didn't how could the extra protien hurt him? Like Infinity said, whatever is not used is just passed. I* really would like to feed Orijen and I think after reading im gonna go with the regular puppy version*.


:goodpost:

WOOO HOOO!  orijen is a wonderful feed. u are really going to enjoy it.

and no argument here... jsut debate


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Carriana said:


> OMG I love this! I am in accounting and use excel all day every day - +1 to you for being a fellow spreadsheet geek


LOL, I'm glad I'm not alone. I also have within that spreadsheet, some worksheets with my gas mileage for all of 08, and this year-to-date. My Honda gives me an average of 29.6 MPG, an average of 379.3 miles per tank full, and an average of $46.82 per fill up, HAHAHAHAHA.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se said:


> u are really going to enjoy it.
> 
> and no argument here... jsut debate


Here's an argument for ya: he is not going to enjoy it, his dog will  LMFAO.

And Fire4Life, this thread is not even close to an argument, it has been pretty civil... I think.


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## Fire4Life (Feb 3, 2009)

NesOne said:


> Here's an argument for ya: he is not going to enjoy it, his dog will  LMFAO.
> 
> And Fire4Life, this thread is not even close to an argument, it has been pretty civil... I think.


haha...debate it is!!


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

i think that person died because she did not pee.that contest didnt they have to hold it?

see i drink so much water, its all i drink and i drink more water then i probably should. enough that my water consumption makes me never hungry. even to the point my tummy will hurt. between me and Peanut i go thru 4 5 gallon water bottles a week. i guess i am addicted to water....anyway i havent had any issues or die because i do not hold the water in.

as far as protein goes please read this. 
The Dog Food Project - Nutrients: Proteins

here is an excerpt
"While it is true that (particularly large breed) puppies benefit from a moderate protein content diet during their growth stage, in order to allow for slower, more even growth and to avoid orthopedic problems, the concept of avoiding proteins and fats in a dog's diet seems to be tied more to cost of ingredients - lesser amounts of quality meats, more grains - than anything else. Wanting to secure their profit margin, the "big players" in the pet food industry seem to be marketing their products based on least-cost ideas of "proper nutrition", impressing wrong dietary principles on consumers who are just trying to do the right thing for their beloved pets.

When feeding a diet that contains more protein than currently needed, extra protein is metabolized and used for energy. Unlike fat, excessive protein is not stored as such in the body, but once the demand for amino acids is met and protein reserves are filled, protein energy could be used for the production of fat. Animals fed diets too low in dietary protein may develop deficiency symptoms like decreased appetite, poor growth, weight loss, a rough and dull coat, and decreased immune function. Lower reproductive performance, and decreased milk production are symptoms in breeding animals."


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se said:


> :goodpost:
> 
> WOOO HOOO!  orijen is a wonderful feed. u are really going to enjoy it.
> 
> and no argument here... jsut debate


No this is a argument.............J/K Like I said depends on the dog.. I meant a Lab is not in the large to giant breed when we were talking about Mastiffs and great danes etc etc.. I am talking about dogs that are easily over 100lbs a Lab is not... I will tell you right now that those stats you posted from the AKC ARE BS that is like a humans weight chart we are all OBESE...You have a working dog that you are exercising regularly...Again my opinion with that is that a grain free high protein food isnt the right choce for the avg PUPPY after 5-6 months only way to go is grain free..
I do it with my Lab and will do it with what I guess is my AMBULLY... as I always stated I am a newbie to APBT cause I am no expert.. but both the parents are over 80lbs and I will post pics they are not fat they compete... Is it a bloodline thing then by what you guys are saying since you claim that no ABPT should be over 70lb??? And orijen is not the only grain free choice out there is what I meant.... Innova is a great choice and so is wellness Core..


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

if you are new to apbt open up and listen. you are arguing point that pertain to large dogs. apbts are not large breeds by any means. your points are not making any sense. kind of hard to follow


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

In addition to the story that Nes posted, the first time I heard of this happening was when a 16 year old girl took Ecstasy for the first time. She was high and had heard that it dehydrates you, so she drank a bunch of water and ended up dying from it (it being the water, not the X).

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/5/f/blwaterintox.htm

Scary stuff!

Anything is bad for you if you overdo it.


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

infinity8x3 said:


> This post was hard to understand. You say your new to APBT but claim to have an ambully. And some of the points you are trying to make are eccentric.
> 
> While strange things happen there are more circumstances to both stories than just drinking water until your not thirsty any more. One was holding pee while drinking gallons. The other was narcotic related. X has a lot of street drugs in it like coke, heroin, GHB, MDMA. And no telling what else nowadays. I guess my point is that there should be no reason to worry about a healthy dogs water intake. Unless its not enuf lol. I know you posted she didn't die from the X but I'm sure even if just physiologically it had something to do with it.


Sorry, let me clarify. I was not implying that a dog would drink too much water and die. Someone said it's not possible to drink TOO much water. I was just adding to what a couple of others had said in that you can, in fact, drink too much water and it can kill you.


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

PeanutsMommy said:


> if you are new to apbt open up and listen. you are arguing point that pertain to large dogs. apbts are not large breeds by any means. your points are not making any sense. kind of hard to follow


Let me simplfy for you... If your dog is gonna be over 70lb you can go with a large breed formula... dont need to open up and listen... My point is high protein food or a grain free food isnt a good choice for a puppy until they are over 6 months.. What is hard to understand about that? Not once did I say the APBT is a large breed I said it DEPENDS ON THE DOG........:hammer:


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

infinity8x3 said:


> This post was hard to understand. You say your new to APBT but claim to have an ambully. And some of the points you are trying to make are eccentric.
> 
> While strange things happen there are more circumstances to both stories than just drinking water until your not thirsty any more. One was holding pee while drinking gallons. The other was narcotic related. X has a lot of street drugs in it like coke, heroin, GHB, MDMA. And no telling what else nowadays. I guess my point is that there should be no reason to worry about a healthy dogs water intake. Unless its not enuf lol. I know you posted she didn't die from the X but I'm sure even if just physiologically it had something to do with it.


I said I am new to APBT which has nothing to do with knowledge on feeding a dog.. I never said I had a ambully you guys said anything over a 70lb APBT is a Ambully.... Maybe I am misunderstanding... Also what points did I make that you think are ODD???


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

Rico said:


> Let me simplfy for you... If your dog is gonna be over 70lb you can go with a large breed formula... dont need to open up and listen... My point is high protein food or a grain free food isnt a good choice for a puppy until they are over 6 months.. What is hard to understand about that? Not once did I say the APBT is a large breed I said it DEPENDS ON THE DOG........:hammer:


:flush::flush:

wow you just dont get it.
you do need to listen to people i dont care if you dont listen to me but there are plenty of people on this board trying to give you information and you are arguing against everyone doesnt that tell you that all thoes people may know something. not just about the food but the breed.

you talk about feeding large breed puppy in alot of your posts and keep talking about 100lb dogs now you are talking about 70 dogs. the issue is not the grains and the protein its the amount of CALCUIM AND PHOSPHATE that is in the foods too much and you can get osteo dieases and improper growth. that is the difference with feeding a large breed food to a non large breed dog. its not just the weight of the dog its the size the dog is supposed to grow to. you are not feeding the body weight you are feeding the large breed for the dogs sketal structure. it does not depend on the dog it depends on what the breed is.
protein is needed by dogs.
The Dog Food Project - Is too much protein harmful?
Protein And Kidney Failure from Your Dogs Diet Is It A Myth? | The Dogs and Dog Food Recall News Blog
now what is your reasoning that young dogs cant be on a grain free high quality protein diet? why would you want to start your puppy on a food full of crap ingredients at the time they are forming then when they hit that magic age put them on quality food?

honestly i had Peanut on a crappy puppy food with grains and low protein and he was always sick. at 5 months i put him on a grain free high protein diet and all the problems went away. he is high energy and he does workout a few hours a day.

all that said i dont care in the long run what you feed your dog what you think of me or if you look at the information i tried to give you. i am just trying to give you the information and make the suggestion to open up your mind you can learn alot from the people on the forum. i know i learned alot from these great people.


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

PeanutsMommy said:


> :flush::flush:
> 
> wow you just dont get it.
> you do need to listen to people i dont care if you dont listen to me but there are plenty of people on this board trying to give you information and you are arguing against everyone doesnt that tell you that all thoes people may know something. not just about the food but the breed.
> ...


Have you read any of my post's??? My first post was this..

"the Large breed Formula is better suited for him little lower in calcium and other things so the puppy doesnt have bone spurts since he is growing fast on his own it also has the protein that he needs and other nutrients.. So that is why I choose it but it all depends on the weight according to Innova there puppy formula iscgood for dogs that are gona be up to 70lbs anything bigger large breed according to there nutrionist that I spoke on the phone aswell as a Holstic Vet"..

And once again I never stated that a YOUNG dog cant be on a grain free high protein food......And if you think Innova has crappy grain fillers then do some research on the food cause it does not.. I said for a PUPPY under 6 months a great choice is a Innova puppy formula which is all natural we are not talking about Kibble and Bits here when they are over 6 months switching to there EVO formula which is alot higher in PROTEIN which is better suited for a young dog not a 8 week old puppy... Anybody I have spoken to they do not suggest EVO for a Puppy...

I am done with the debate after all its only dog food.... I have other things to worry about like all the pee and poo this 8 week old APBT is giving me..


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

infinity8x3 said:


> I don't know how to respond to that other than the person was an idiot. And prolly one of the few in recorded history to have that happen. But to fear some thing like that happening to your dog I would consider paranoia.


I agree with you 100%, a dog knows better HAHAHAHA. Us humans tend to be the ones that try things that will kill us.


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

> *RICO:* but both the parents are over 80lbs and I will post pics they are not fat they compete... Is it a bloodline thing then by what you guys are saying I mean i told you the dad Zeus is 120lb Solid , height I am not sure of but he is not that much shorter then my Choc Lab and he has a 26 inch head the Mother is 90lb solid again I mean ripped I wish I had a body like these dogs and she has a 24 inch head.... So are these just man made freaks???


they are man made!!! and there are quite a bit that are man made FREAKS. _i like how u took this out of ur original post lol_ +1 coming at ya infinity for catchin it

an APBT looks like this








very lean, very atheltic and MEDIUM sized

an ambully is this (this is the same dog in the next two pics)
90lbs








70lbs









so there is a BIG difference in 90lbs and 70lbs.... what does ur pups parents look like._* THE SAME DOG!*_

and this is a man made ambully freak probly closer to 120lbs and "24INCH HEAD":hammer:









what i dont understand is WHY do Bully Owners want a dog that has a huge head????:flush: its somethin that has always puzzled me


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se said:


> they are man made!!! and there are quite a bit that are man made FREAKS. _i like how u took this out of ur original post lol_ +1 coming at ya infinity for catchin i
> 
> what i dont understand is WHY do Bully Owners want a dog that has a huge head????:flush: its somethin that has always puzzled me[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

earlier you said your puppy was an ambully now you are saying it is apbt. the dam and sire dont sound like they fit the apbt standards. were they overweight?


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

infinity8x3 said:


> As far as the odd points. You claim that high quality protien, grain free feed. Is not good for puppies but me, my vet, and my now 10 week old TRUE apbt dissagree.


Are you calling my pup a FAKE APBT???? I know your not doing that..Didnt know you knew my pups pedigree and didnt know you were an expert... TRUE APBT very ingnorant statment.....


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

PeanutsMommy said:


> earlier you said your puppy was an ambully now you are saying it is apbt. the dam and sire dont sound like they fit the apbt standards. were they overweight?


That is why I am saying does anybody read previous post?? I didnt say that you guys said anything over 70lb was an ambully... I simply stated I was no expert on APBT and that if the parents are both over 90lbs this automatically means I have a ambully?? As far as I know he is a APBT.... No the parents are not overweight they are tall and huge.. Not a tradition short fat ambully style that I se in those pics..

Wasnt this a thread about is to much protein good for puppies???????


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

okay fair enough just lost me there.
i think all has been said for this thread it has gone WAY off topic


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

rico... im not trying to attack you. i am just curiouas what teh big deal is about weight and head size. the only thing that urks me is when somone claims they own an APBT when they own an Ambully... Yes both are "pitbulls" but not the same thing..

what is ur pups bloodlines rico, if u dont mind me asking?


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

infinity8x3 said:


> UHH... I dunno whos dog that is but the third pic looks horrible. Trying to make a ambully look lean like a APBT is an epic phail.


no way!!! I THINK BLUE LOOKS AWESOM! if i ever get a buly... i want it lean like Blue.

edit:blue is actually the dog in teh second pic too... jsut 20lbs heavier, the reason i posted those pics is cuz he said the parents are close to 120 i was jsut wondering what HE THOUGHT the parents loooked lik


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

hey red dnose the owner of that blue dog has said on this site thats its not a bully, i think it is collete bred but you would have to ask the owner


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

wheezie said:


> hey red dnose the owner of that blue dog has said on this site thats its not a bully, i think it is collete bred but you would have to ask the owner


really???? i thought wootness said blue was ambully... i will ahve to ask... thnaks for pointing that out


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

looks like a well conditioned dog to me.


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

yeah same here... i emiled wootness... i was lookin at past threads and she doesnt say anything when i mention him being bully....


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## wheezie (Aug 4, 2006)

i deff remeber her saying it wasnt a bully and that it was collete bred,...true thats a staff cross... but hey lets only talk smack about bullys and not staff crosses that fit UKC standards


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

wheezie said:


> i deff remeber her saying it wasnt a bully and that it was collete bred,...true thats a staff cross... but hey lets only talk smack about bullys and not staff crosses that fit UKC standards


ahha ok if u ARE SURE... lol... idk what blue is, he is stll one of my favorite for sure.... that dog looks so feirce.... i love it!


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## PeanutsMommy (Sep 21, 2008)

i think wootness' bubu is a great looking dog. even if he is am bully or not he is well conditioned she spends alot of time working with him to get him looking like that.
bubu is my goal for Peanut.


not all ambullys are low to the ground a wide.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Wheezie is correct, I recall that thread, where wootness thought he was an AmBully at first, but then realized that he in no way fits the description of one.

Here's the thread: http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/10378-blue-working-out-2.html


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Rico said:


> I didnt say that you guys said anything over 70lb was an ambully... I simply stated I was no expert on APBT and that if the parents are both over 90lbs this automatically means I have a ambully??


90+ lbs and blue is generally a dead give away that a dog is "bully-bred". Esp. since you stated that the sire was 120 lbs and the dam was 90 lbs. There is nothing wrong with owning an Ambully - they can be great, beautiful dogs. Use the search function at the top of the page and look up Ambully threads. It's been discussed, debated, argued, etc many times on this board, but if you can stand to sift through the biased BS you will find a lot of good info about the difference between an APBT and an AmBully and why a dog who doesn't fit the standard of an APBT can still show that it is such in it's pedigree.

You said you are new to the breed, so please, stay a while and soak up some info. If you're willing to listen there is a lot of people with a lot of knowledge about these dogs who would love to share.


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

infinity8x3 said:


> rico sorry to burst you bubble but the parents of your dog do not meet breed standards. Just because a dog looks like a certain breed does not make it a certain breed. Scan some papers and post them or stfu.


Dude I could careless what you think..... So the only bubble burst is your own..... STFU are you for real guy this is a thread about dogs and a debate no body is attacking anyone and your gonna come on here and start telling people to post papers or STFU... You def confirmed the IGNORANT part :clap:... There is really no need for that.....


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

Carriana said:


> 90+ lbs and blue is generally a dead give away that a dog is "bully-bred". Esp. since you stated that the sire was 120 lbs and the dam was 90 lbs. There is nothing wrong with owning an Ambully - they can be great, beautiful dogs. Use the search function at the top of the page and look up Ambully threads. It's been discussed, debated, argued, etc many times on this board, but if you can stand to sift through the biased BS you will find a lot of good info about the difference between an APBT and an AmBully and why a dog who doesn't fit the standard of an APBT can still show that is is such in it's pedigree.
> 
> You said you are new to the breed, so please, stay a while and soak up some info. If you're willing to listen there is a lot of people with a lot of knowledge about these dogs who would love to share.


Yup I hear ya thnxs.. Ok so the Sire is UKC registered and so is the Dam so I would think from that I have a APBT you know what I mean... I am just figuring the dog was a freak I know the breeder well since we both work at the same PD.. I have none the Sire since he was a pup and he is just huge I have seen Ambullies and to me they tend to be short and what I consider to be fat.. I mean I dont care either way I love the pup APBT or AMBULLY..


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## Carriana (May 13, 2008)

Rico said:


> Yup I hear ya thnxs.. Ok so the Sire is UKC registered and so is the Dam so I would think from that I have a APBT you know what I mean... I am just figuring the dog was a freak I know the breeder well since we both work at the same PD.. I have none the Sire since he was a pup and he is just huge I have seen Ambullies and to me they tend to be short and what I consider to be fat.. I mean I dont care either way I love the pup APBT or AMBULLY..


Well there is a lot of debate on the origins of the AmBully. And I think it varies. Some might actually just be a selectively bred ABPT AmStaff cross, while others like the Notorious Juan Gotti where the papers were hung (they listed a dog as the sire when it was actually a different dog, not APBT) and they subtly or not so subtly mixed in other similar but larger breeds like mastiffs and bulldogs. Since they are still working on getting established as a breed there is no true standard for an Ambully and many of them are registered or even dual registered as APBTs, hence the confusion and the varying sizes and shapes of AmBullies in general.

If you want to know and have your dogs ped I would suggest starting a new thread in the bloodlines section with the ped in it. I am not a bloodline expert and I have no idea how to get around in a ped but there will be a lot of people who can and will be willing to offer you their opinions and advice on that subject


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## Rico (Feb 19, 2009)

LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se said:


> rico... im not trying to attack you. i am just curiouas what teh big deal is about weight and head size. the only thing that urks me is when somone claims they own an APBT when they own an Ambully... Yes both are "pitbulls" but not the same thing..
> 
> what is ur pups bloodlines rico, if u dont mind me asking?


Like I said just a debate good way to learn.. I dont care about those stats I didnt get the pup from the breeder cause the Sire has a 26 inch head and weighs 120lb I got him cause the guy works at my PD and I have none the Sire and the Dam since they were pups he has 3 little girls and the dogs are AWESOME... And they look great too. I love Blue and White.. Anyway I didnt claim that I know everything here but it seems that we got way off track... My original opinion was that a really high protin food isnt the best for a very young pup I only feed my dogs grain free food seems like nobody reads the previous post..

Yeah I dont care the Sire is Gotti and the Dam is Razor Edge and like I said both are UKC registered APBT that is why I say I have a APBT..


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## LiiL_L0cz_Red_N0se (Sep 15, 2008)

Rico said:


> Like I said just a debate good way to learn.. I dont care about those stats I didnt get the pup from the breeder cause the Sire has a 26 inch head and weighs 120lb I got him cause the guy works at my PD and I have none the Sire and the Dam since they were pups he has 3 little girls and the dogs are AWESOME... And they look great too. I love Blue and White.. Anyway I didnt claim that I know everything here but it seems that we got way off track... My original opinion was that a really high protin food isnt the best for a very young pup I only feed my dogs grain free food seems like nobody reads the previous post..
> 
> Yeah I dont care the Sire is Gotti and the Dam is Razor Edge and like I said both are UKC registered APBT that is why I say I have a APBT..


no harm no foul. i understand gettin a dog froma friend just becuz they had nice dogs. i get that. And i understand that your new to the breed, and i may have come off harsh. im just a bitch that way lol. us officers just tend to be short and.... to the point lol... anyway, if u ahve a pedigree or pics i would love to see. post it in the bloodline section so we can talk more... this thread has gone completely off topic.

ill be PMin you.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Wow, SouthCoast Gottilines site shows that a 5th pick Male sold for $2K!!! WTF!! HAHAHA, just had to mention that.


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