# Breeding and Bulls



## sdominado91 (Jul 1, 2017)

I do NOT want to spay my female bull mix. I also do NOT have any plans to breed my pup now or in the near future. Why is this so frowned upon? 

Hear me out... from my understanding, spaying is the removal of the dogs ovaries, a sexual organ which produces hormones, primarily estrogen while also regulating progesterone levels needed for pregnancy. On the flip side, estrogen has way more function than just for "sex" and making babies. For one, estrogen functions in the regulation of calcium resorption in bone, hence why older women have a much greater risk for osteoporosis, because their estrogen levels drop with old age.

I want to keep my girl as "natural" as possible for health reasons and more. Why does every vet I go to get upset because I refuse to spay her? 

I don't believe that it is so cut and dry as some hardline spay supporters make it seem. I'm speaking from having a humble medical background and I am trying to incorporate my knowledge accordingly. Anyone have any constructive input on this subject?


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## EckoMac (Aug 25, 2010)

I don't deal with females in heat, so my personal preference is to spay. If I had my male as a pup though, I probably wouldn't have neutered. 
But, there is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping your dog intact as long as you can keep her properly contained and away from males while she's in heat.


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## JoKealoha (Mar 22, 2011)

it's considered "irresponsible" because of the spay-neuter campaign in almost every county across our great nation. virtually every organization is primarily concerned with overpopulation. this is due to a range of issues. BYBs mostly. but also the average owner is just not committed to preventing pregnancy. every other litter is an "accident". or a "surprise".
i also weighed the options with my male. especially musculoskeletal considerations. the big sticking point for shelters is "if you neuter then you never have to worry about testicular cancer". no shit sherlock. if i removed his liver, i wouldn't have to worry about liver disease either. they also don't tell you a neutered dog is 6x more likely to develop prostate cancer than unaltered males. just like in humans, a decrease in testosterone leads to enlargement of the prostate gland.
so my boy is 7 now and still intact. we had some built up "tension" between 2 and 4 years old. 5 miles a day to keep the hormones at bay. hikes. swimming. it was always GO TIME! since then, he has mellowed out alot. but it takes a very strict lifestyle. no unsupervised playdates with unaltered females.... EVER. no exceptions. he never leaves my sight for one second. if i have to piss or refill my drink, he's coming with me. that's just the way it has to be.... otherwise the ASPCA is talking directly to me.


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## sdominado91 (Jul 1, 2017)

JoKealoha said:


> it's considered "irresponsible" because of the spay-neuter campaign in almost every county across our great nation. virtually every organization is primarily concerned with overpopulation. this is due to a range of issues. BYBs mostly. but also the average owner is just not committed to preventing pregnancy. every other litter is an "accident". or a "surprise".
> i also weighed the options with my male. especially musculoskeletal considerations. the big sticking point for shelters is "if you neuter then you never have to worry about testicular cancer". no shit sherlock. if i removed his liver, i wouldn't have to worry about liver disease either. they also don't tell you a neutered dog is 6x more likely to develop prostate cancer than unaltered males. just like in humans, a decrease in testosterone leads to enlargement of the prostate gland.
> so my boy is 7 now and still intact. we had some built up "tension" between 2 and 4 years old. 5 miles a day to keep the hormones at bay. hikes. swimming. it was always GO TIME! since then, he has mellowed out alot. but it takes a very strict lifestyle. no unsupervised playdates with unaltered females.... EVER. no exceptions. he never leaves my sight for one second. if i have to piss or refill my drink, he's coming with me. that's just the way it has to be.... otherwise the ASPCA is talking directly to me.


My thoughts exactly! It's just annoying how I have to continue to get the spay/neuter talk and it's not even backed by research. The only problem they are trying to address is overpopulation when there are a whole list of reasons that support the flip side as well. They don't tell you about the health risks. I just wish the focus would change to "responsible parenting" from what it is now which is "castrate them all" lol

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## sdominado91 (Jul 1, 2017)

EckoMac said:


> I don't deal with females in heat, so my personal preference is to spay. If I had my male as a pup though, I probably wouldn't have neutered.
> But, there is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping your dog intact as long as you can keep her properly contained and away from males while she's in heat.


That was also my biggest "con" for the natural approach. But I think as long as I keep her away from un-neutered males while in heat it shouldn't be the biggest issue. It's also only 2 weeks out of the entire year so I think we can do that. I want a healthy pup, and that's it.

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## Sadie101 (Aug 11, 2017)

I just don't see any point at all in keeping an animal intact if your never going to breed it. sure keeping an animal intact may be healthier but if it gets no sexual relief it will become a problem for you. Not only will it become a problem to you but not allowing the dog any sexual releif will also cause health issues for the dog. so what is your point in keeping it intact and not spay it if your never ever going to let it have sex? its pointless. I think it is very stupid of you and a very poor decision making on your end. the dog will find a way to escape and mate. what will you do then? have you ever thought about that? males can smell a female in heat from over 10 miles away and will also travel the distance, break through the fence and get to your female. you should alter her and save the idiotic trouble you will have in the future that could easily be prevented.


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## DynamicDuo (Sep 3, 2016)

Sadie101 said:


> I just don't see any point at all in keeping an animal intact if your never going to breed it. sure keeping an animal intact may be healthier but if it gets no sexual relief it will become a problem for you. Not only will it become a problem to you but not allowing the dog any sexual releif will also cause health issues for the dog. so what is your point in keeping it intact and not spay it if your never ever going to let it have sex? its pointless. I think it is very stupid of you and a very poor decision making on your end. the dog will find a way to escape and mate. what will you do then? have you ever thought about that? males can smell a female in heat from over 10 miles away and will also travel the distance, break through the fence and get to your female. you should alter her and save the idiotic trouble you will have in the future that could easily be prevented.


Hi Sadie. You're more than welcome to your opinion around here but it is not appreciated when you blatantly attack other members based on your opinions. To call them stupid is unnecessary. I've always had intact males and have never ever had a single one break through a fence or run away over 10 miles to get to a female in heat. Yes, if they smell a female in heat they will try to get to her but lack of sex as you put it has no negative affects on dogs who are intact. That's like saying a human female who does not have her tubes tied is being tortured whenever they don't have sex. That's not based on science or fact. There are pros and cons to altering or keeping dogs intact for health and other reasons. To say that an intact dog will mate no matter what is also a falsehood. Many of us here, REAL breeders and non, have dogs that are intact for a variety of reasons and none of the responsible owners has had an "ooops" pregnancy that I'm aware of. And just for the record, spaying or neutering a dog is proven to have no affect on their behavior as you imply. That is a big myth.

~Jess


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## sdominado91 (Jul 1, 2017)

Sadie101 said:


> I just don't see any point at all in keeping an animal intact if your never going to breed it. sure keeping an animal intact may be healthier but if it gets no sexual relief it will become a problem for you. Not only will it become a problem to you but not allowing the dog any sexual releif will also cause health issues for the dog. so what is your point in keeping it intact and not spay it if your never ever going to let it have sex? its pointless. I think it is very stupid of you and a very poor decision making on your end. the dog will find a way to escape and mate. what will you do then? have you ever thought about that? males can smell a female in heat from over 10 miles away and will also travel the distance, break through the fence and get to your female. you should alter her and save the idiotic trouble you will have in the future that could easily be prevented.


Thank you for your passionate response Sadie! I was hoping for someone with a differing point to see their side of things but you aren't going to win anyone over with your arguments. First of all, how exactly will they get health problems from "sexual frustration"? Depression? Anxiety? I'm not sure exactly where you are going with that. Also, our pup is an indoor bull, living in our apartment so unless a stray, intact male breaks though our door or window, they are not getting in. It seems like you feel strongly about this topic though. Have you gone through a personal experience that has made you feel this way?

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## jttar (Jan 31, 2013)

Sadie101 said:


> I think it is *very stupid of you* and a very poor decision making on your end. the dog will find a way to escape and mate. what will you do then? have you ever thought about that? males can smell a female in heat from over 10 miles away and will also travel the distance, break through the fence and get to your female. you should alter her and save the idiotic trouble you will have in the future that could easily be prevented.


Sadie101,
Consider this a verbal warning before an infraction. This forum will not tolerate personal attacks on other forum members. We are here to learn from each other and derogatory remarks towards each other have no place at GPB.

Spend some time reading here and get a feeling for the forum and it's membership. This is a pretty special forum and we intend to keep it that way. If you decide to hang around and follow the rules, we welcome you and your opinions.

Joe


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## RitaCeleste (Oct 8, 2017)

Well, a pit bull mix followed my car home. I decided to keep after checking with the owners of bull dogs on farms near us and finding she was indeed dumped off. I then asked my dad if she should be fixed. He said the bones in her legs were too thin for a bull dog of any kind, I should fix her. I could tell she had raise some puppies before so I did. Years later a man gave me a five week old pit the mother could not nurse due to infection. I saw my mutt with a puppy for the first time. I had never regretted fixing her until then. Until then I didn't really have it in my face what I took from her. My new dog is a female pit without papers. Sure she is full-blooded, excellent conformation, cowboy bloodlines mostly, no one has bothered with paperwork for ages around here, (she is so-an-so's granddaughter and their family has dogs with such and such and yes the puppies will sell but you can't sell so and so one, not even for a million dollars, cause they fight dogs.....and yeah, they'll try ya) Anyway, she is too young to breed but she will have puppies and they will still command a good price without any papers. Daddy is lined up already. With papers you could show em. Not that anybody wants to prance around and to go to the shows, they just want to ride around town with a great dog and say nannerbooboo, and go fishing with their best bud. After a few litters when friends and family are stocked up, I can retire her from making puppies. Unless they are unreal and the list of people wanting a puppy is still long. And they might be. Point is people would stand on their heads because I am going to breed an unpapered dog. People can stick their papers. Mutts even can be the best pets ever and what is this dog and those puppies' job gonna be? To be great companions!!! No dog needs to have papers to prove they can be great at that.


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## Indie (Sep 29, 2010)

Try walking into the vet to get a brucellosis test done on a bitch you're planning to breed. Of course, once the vet saw the OFA testing, the titles, and the good homes all over the country, she changed her tune by the end of it.

I keep my dogs intact for health reasons. Watch closely after their heat, to make sure they aren't coming down with Pyometra. It is a pain in the butt when they go in heat, but I deal.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

I keep my dogs intact. My vet doesn't become upset about me choosing not to spay. One vet at my vet clinic asked if I'd considered doing it when my youngest female was old enough (she's only 6 months), he's not the vet I normally see, I have a regular doc that my dogs normally see BUT he wasn't upset. 

Just keep in mind the risk of mammary tumors and of course be alert to pyometra. Nothing wrong with not spaying, as long as you prevent pregnancy, just be aware you might have to spay for medical reasons when she is older and possibly under emergency conditions.


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