# Starting my Own Bloodline



## showoffpits (Mar 6, 2008)

I was wondering if there was anyone else out there starting there own bloodline out there that I could get advice from. I am currently in the process of starting my own bloodline. The name of my bloodline is going to be called KALEB after my only stud I have. I am registering all my dogs through CKC & APBR. Thanks for all advice that may be helpful in advance....


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## sw_df27 (Feb 16, 2007)

I think there is another thread on this somewhere.......... do you know how long it really takes to start your own bloodline? Is your stud titled in anything? what lines do you plan on starting with? are you gonna be keeping all the pups until you get your own line which could be 10 yrs down the line if your breeding females after 2 yrs of age.................


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## showoffpits (Mar 6, 2008)

I dont think it will take 10years down the line....But thanks for the input.....


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## strongman_atlas (Feb 17, 2008)

Yea, I agree with SW. It takes time! You can call your bloodline KALEB but if, KALEB only shows up in one generation, and not many, then you are sort of false claiming. Your KALEB bloodline is really whatever bloodline Kaleb consist of. For example, my AmBully is RE/Powerlines if I breed him with my female who is RE it is sort of unethical to call it my bloodline when in actuality the pups would be RE/Powerlines. I'm not downing you or anything and to be honest I still consider myself a "rookie" but after all my research I do know that it takes time. Also, could you answer some of these questions?

1. Do you have in your head what you want your dog's physical and mental traits to be like? If so, are you familiar with breed specifications?
2. Have you gotten your dogs health checked?
3. Are you in it for the money or are you in it to better the breed? Because, honestly you need to expect to lose more money than gained.
4. Have you ever whelped or even experienced one?
5. Do you know your dog's pedigree?
6. Has your stud or your bitch won any awards? Have they been shown? Do what your name states "Showoff" those beautiful pits. Much can be learned from other breeders at shows.
7. Are you willing to cur any deformed/sickly pups? (Which you shouldn't even have if done and researched bloodlines right)
8. Do you have prospective GOOD homes for 8-12 pups?
9. etc, etc, etc.......

And honestly, I question you about their pedigree because CKC and APBR registered dogs are not recognized with "prestige" in the American Pitbull Terrier world. I've been to the APBR website and even experimented with my friend's "Pit/mix" with a tail that comes up behind his back (which is a default!) and all I had to do was take pictures and send what I think was 15 dollars. Now my friend has a reg "Pit/mix" as being an APBT. THIS IS NOT BETTERING THE BREED!

Now, not saying that you are doing this, just saying EXPECT criticism from fellow APBT and AmBULLY men and women. I myself hope to one day become an established breeder of both APBT and AmBullies and establish my own bloodlines. But first I will learn EVERYTHING I can possibly know. I wish you the best on this endeaver because I have the same dreams.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

:goodpost: 

Yep all of the above. you can not just call the dogs by you chosen name and make it your bloodline. It takes years and years for the fact that you have to keep dogs of your own and wait for them to mature and then keep dogs from their litters and so forth and so on. It takes many many generations before the line is "yours".


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Wow thats a HUGE task. First and foremost you can't just create a bloodline. That takes YEARS AND YEARS of consistent breeding and achieving the same charateristics in your offspring time after time. Heck just because you put your name on them doesn't mean a thing because you didn't do the breeding. It wasn't your time and effort and thinking that went into producing the dogs you currently have. Also a line, not bloodline, but line isnt even recognized until you have a pedigree with your "name" in it in all 4 generations, top and bottom. So just that right there would take at best 8 years and thats consistently breeding 2yr old females!

The kennel part is easy, get a license and you are an official "kennel". It seems anyone with multiple dogs on the same yard is a kennel. But your main goal should be to produce dogs with tittles and quality working dogs.

Hope this helps.

And From Patch

I'm pretty sure their is a HUGE post on this forum as their is on most about ethical breeding if not I'll stick one up.



> First off are your dogs registered with ADBA or UKC?... if they are not reg with either than they should not be bred as those are the only two reputable APBT registries.
> 
> It is also a good idea to get a mentor who knows the breed and what they are doing to guide you. Go to shows and working events and network with different people in the breed and learn. From this post I can honestly say you probably should not even consider breeding for at least another year or so until you can learn more and do it properly. That is no offense to you. I think it is great that you are here asking questions and trying to learn.
> 
> ...


Check out this link to another thread

http://www.gopitbull.com/pitbullforums/bloodline-discussion/3460-how-start-my-own-kennel-bloodline.html?highlight=bloodline


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## MY MIKADO (Apr 7, 2006)

I hope you listen to all the knowlegdeable folks on this board. You all had GREAT posts!!!!!!!


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## showoffpits (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks I understand what all are you are saying here and learned a few things from a few of your posts that I didnt already know. I will take it all into consideration. I bought my dogs without papers so I have to go through the process of registering them and so forth.


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## GSDBulldog (Dec 22, 2006)

If you go into breeding with the sole plan to create "your" own bloodline, then you are going into breeding for very wrong reasons. It's not about personal goals and reputation, it's about preserving and improving the breed. Today, it seems that more and more people are out to get famous through the dogs. There is a sort of "rep" one seems to get by being a pit bull breeder, and this is unfortunate because it is the breed that suffers.

The two registries you speak of mean nothing in the world of dog breeding- they are nothing more than glorified printing presses. If you acquired dogs with no papers from reputable sources, then you have no guarantee the dog is what you think it is. Because of this, you have no history to base your future breedings on. 

My advice is to hold off on the idea of breeding until you've learned more. I suggest attending shows (Sanctioned by reputable registries) and talking to people- perhaps even pick yourself up a mentor who can guide you through the ins and outs of the breed.


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## showoffpits (Mar 6, 2008)

Thats where I think people are wrong. They say that oh a dog doesnt have papers so you cant tell what it is. Even if a dog has papers from UKC or ADBA that doesnt mean its legit still. How do you think people get these massive pitbulls? Its not by breeding just pitbulls together. My buddy who is helping me out and knows a ton about pitbulls works at a vet and he has seen some crazy stuff in his time. People mix pitbulls and bull mastiffs and so forth. People these days seem to only care about a pit having a huge head and being huge itself. If a pitbull is full blooded and weighing 125+ pounds then it has been mixed somewhere along and people have just used another dogs papers to say its the father or so on. My second argument is I am not into pitbulls to start my own bloodline. While that is what I wouldnt mind doing that is not at all what I am into pits for. My pits are very well trained pits and very sociable with everyone including kids. I want to spread that to other homes so that they get great tempered dogs that can actually be called a family dog and people wont fear it. I take my dogs out in public all the time and let them associate with all people. If people wanna pet them I let them because if you dont socialize the dogs with all types of humans they will most in likely become vicious towards people if all they are around is you and your spouse. Thirdly all dog registries to me are just a slab of paper. Everyone says this paper company is better than the other and this one will make your dog worth more than the other one. I am NOT in it for the money and I want to breed dogs that are affordable and you dont have to take a loan out just to buy a dog. I want to make someones next great family pet an affordable pet.


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## GSDBulldog (Dec 22, 2006)

Yes, paper hanging occurs in all registries. Which is why you need to acquire dogs from reputable sources if you want any guarantee of what you are getting. But registries that allow you "prove" your dog's heritage with a few pictures and a handwritten pedigree are catering to backyard breeders and others who have no idea just what is behind their dogs.

There is already a surplus of sound, friendly dogs that would make any family proud. Most of them, unfortunately, don't make it out of the shelter alive. With our vast overpopulation problem, breeding to produce pets should be on the very bottom of your list.


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## showoffpits (Mar 6, 2008)

breeding is not on the top of my list at all. I want to show my dogs off but I dont want my dog fixed either. I know paper hanging occurs and most pitbulls shouldnt weigh more than I believe it is 75 pds. is what it says in my magazine I have. So if they say the father is a solid 125pds. either they have had that dog on steroids or there is some paper hanging going on prob. and neither I approve of. Search google and you see what I would call overweight pits all over the web registered with ADBA, UKC, AKC, & CKC. So to me the company doesnt mean much to me. It is just a sheet of paper that says oh your dog is this. I however am not making up a pedigree for a dog. I am going to start the pedigree of my dog from the time I register it and after getting 4 generations I can transfer it from CKC to ADBA or where ever if I wanted to. I think all dogs should be registered to somewhere and shouldnt have to be fixed. Thats like saying your birth certificate was lost so since they dont know exactly who your mother and father are you should be fixed or like saying since you are adopted you should have been fixed.


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## strongman_atlas (Feb 17, 2008)

Im sorry to say this, but you sound ignorant. Now don't take it personal, because ignorant means you just don't know, and some of the stuff you are saying shows that you just have not done any research. When you speak on things that you are ignorant of as if you KNOW it to be right, that just makes you sound stupid! The large APBTs you speak of are registered as APBTs with the UKC and ADBA but in actuality they are a new breed called American Bullies. The AmBullies are APBT outcrossed with AmStaffs. Now if you do your RESEARCH then you will see that AmStaffs and APBT were once the SAME breed! In the early 1900s the UKC began reg APBTs and then the AKC began reg APBT as AmStaffs. So you had APBTs and AmStaffs dual reg as two diff breeds. However, the AKC closed there stud books and you were not able to reg your APBT as an AmStaff anymore. AKC=show dogs and UKC/ADBA=sporting dogs. Of course now you have dogs being bred for the pit and others for looks and conformation, so throughout the years the two diff breeds began to take there own characteristics. AmStaffs being larger, people and dog friendly, and somewhat bullier? APBTs were bred based on there performance n the ring, strength, agility, "gameness"... Some breeders did continue to keep there dogs reg with both. You began to see pit dogs have litters that went on to own the rings. lol. Now, you have in the 1990s the founders of RE and other bully lines began outcrossing APBTs and AmStaffs that were reg as both breeds (which is really the same breed) and out comes these BULLY PITS we see today (A.K.A. American Bully). I mean pit fighting is illegal so kennels began breeding for looks and took on the American logic that bigger is better or bigger looks better. We now see these non ppl or dog agressive AmBullies with a lil less "working" drive... 

On the other hand, the kennels need to stop calling these AmBullies APBTs even though they are reg as being so. Yes, technically they are if you look at their peds, but as far as the breed specifications they do now adhere to, therefore NEW BREED. That's like calling a Doberman and a Miniature Doberman the same breed. NO. Same lineage, but not same breed. Kudos to the ABKC and RE (Elite Edge) for recognizing this and pushing for breeders to switch registeries...

And STOP saying APBTs are viscious towards humans!!!! REAL APBTs are not! It was bred out of them! You are speaking of "pits" not APBTs... Look at Vick's dogs, how many out of how many were adopted? Yes, we should socialize APBTs but they are not naturally people aggresive. 

THANKS!
From fellow ROOKIE to fellow rookie...
Remember, it's all love


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

showoffpits said:


> breeding is not on the top of my list at all. I want to show my dogs off but I dont want my dog fixed either. I know paper hanging occurs and most pitbulls shouldnt weigh more than I believe it is 75 pds. is what it says in my magazine I have. So if they say the father is a solid 125pds. either they have had that dog on steroids or there is some paper hanging going on prob. and neither I approve of. Search google and you see what I would call overweight pits all over the web registered with ADBA, UKC, AKC, & CKC. So to me the company doesnt mean much to me. It is just a sheet of paper that says oh your dog is this. I however am not making up a pedigree for a dog. I am going to start the pedigree of my dog from the time I register it and after getting 4 generations I can transfer it from CKC to ADBA or where ever if I wanted to. I think all dogs should be registered to somewhere and shouldnt have to be fixed. Thats like saying your birth certificate was lost so since they dont know exactly who your mother and father are you should be fixed or like saying since you are adopted you should have been fixed.


I think it is a good idea for you to take a look at the link already posted:
http://www.gopitbull.com/pitbullfor...own-kennel-bloodline.html?highlight=bloodline
It has a lot of great info

As for paper hanging... well this is why when you want a dog let alone want to start breeding or a bloodline you need to get quality papered brood stock from an ethical responsible breeder

Comparing humans and dog breedings is ridiculous IMO and has nothing to do with the topic.

If you plan to be a breeder and do it the right way you will need to do a lot more research and I think by starting with dogs that aren't papered with a reputable registry, titled or health tested you have already stacked the odds against people thinking you will be an ethical breeder.

I hope you take your time and really get involved in other aspects of the breed and researching before deciding to breed

Knowing the pedigree and what is behind the dogs is a HUGE part of breeding properly.

see also:
http://www.apbtconformation.com
www.workingpitbull.com


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## showoffpits (Mar 6, 2008)

You guys are taking this totally wrong I am officially outta this thread. You just dont understand where I am coming from. I am not here to make money or anything. The thing with the lack of health checks my dogs get health checks. I also would love to get a dog from a "better" registry or "better known" registry but I just cant justify in spending $1500+ in a dog when my dogs will prob. turn out looking just as good just lack of that paper.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

First off you don't have to spend that for a quality dog. My Dumae was $100 she is UKC/ADBA registered. She is from lines that I know and from dog I have seen. I have a picture pedigree that has hundreds of pictures of dogs in her pedigree so you can see what they have been bred from. 
Same goes for her sister who I paid $150.00
and Moo $300.00
All with a great long long line of show Champion and Grand Champion show lines. And quite a bit of weight pullers to. I got these dogs from reputable breeders who have been making their lines for YEARS. They have great quality that I will continue into my line. I have records of dogs from the 1800's that have been bred to make the dogs I have. So I know what I am passing on and what I will get.

We are not taking you wrong, you are breeding dogs for the wrong reasons and with all the dogs dying in the pound and on the streets we will get a bit rough. You have no idea what you are doing. You based you statement on what an APBTS weight should be from what you saw in a magazine. 

Do you know how long dog carry there puppies? 
Do you know when The puppies need their shots?
As for health testing have you dogs been checked for heartworms?
hip dysplasia(sp)?
Elbows?
anything?

The world doesn't need more "pets". millions of animals die for no reason because someone bred them and no one wanted them.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

showoffpits said:


> You guys are taking this totally wrong I am officially outta this thread. You just dont understand where I am coming from. I am not here to make money or anything. The thing with the lack of health checks my dogs get health checks. I also would love to get a dog from a "better" registry or "better known" registry but I just cant justify in spending $1500+ in a dog when my dogs will prob. turn out looking just as good just lack of that paper.


Unless there is more info you aren't posting about yourself everyone is just responding to the info given

I think you are confused.
Health checks at the vet does not equate to health testing:
See the OFA and Penn Hip Websites to understand better what is being addressed here.
http://www.offa.org/
http://www.pennhip.org/

Also as already stated, a dog doesn't have to cost thousands of dollars.

Not to sound rude, but if you can't afford a quality dog to breed then you shouldn't be breeding. a c-sec can cost into the thousands and so can the numerous other things that can go wrong in a breeding so you have to be prepared for things like that.

No one here is against you and I'm sure you have very sweet dogs. ....Just trying to help you learn more

You have to have a thick skin so to speak to own this breed and an even thicker one to be a breeder. You have to be prepared to answer questions from people who want to buy your pups so you need to start learning more.


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## showoffpits (Mar 6, 2008)

Sorry to sound so rude to all who have responded to this thread. I am going to learn more about the breed and thanks for all who have input into this thread. I really greatly appreciate it. I will prob. be asking lots of questions in the forum from here out to help better my knowledge on the breed. Thanks again all.....


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

showoffpits said:


> Sorry to sound so rude to all who have responded to this thread. I am going to learn more about the breed and thanks for all who have input into this thread. I really greatly appreciate it. I will prob. be asking lots of questions in the forum from here out to help better my knowledge on the breed. Thanks again all.....


 I'm glad you are sticking around.


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## strongman_atlas (Feb 17, 2008)

I agree! My first dog ADBA registered and was $150 from an established breeder (Christmas gifts)... My second was from a kennel who had chocolate pups, and they kept the blues from the litter $200 UKC/ABKC... My third from a kennel who's changin from APBTs to English Bull Dogs $175 and ADBA... My last was from a guy who bought a muggleston pit pup for breeding and decided he wanted to start with adult dogs $350... All with EXCELLENT bloodlines! Also, all you have to do is talk to breeders. I have a friend (who runs a kennel and he's always calling me about pups and dogs of quality for sell... Just take your time and do a lil searching first. Call kennels, they love talking about dogs!!! I mean, I just got off the phone with the breeder who sold me my first and he loves talking about them. He said, "Hey I know you thinking about starting a kennel, I have a proven female that I'll give to you." Just network, NOT saying get rid of your dogs, but making a point that you can find quality dogs.


american_pit13 said:


> First off you don't have to spend that for a quality dog. My Dumae was $100 she is UKC/ADBA registered. She is from lines that I know and from dog I have seen. I have a picture pedigree that has hundreds of pictures of dogs in her pedigree so you can see what they have been bred from.
> Same goes for her sister who I paid $150.00
> and Moo $300.00
> All with a great long long line of show Champion and Grand Champion show lines. And quite a bit of weight pullers to. I got these dogs from reputable breeders who have been making their lines for YEARS. They have great quality that I will continue into my line. I have records of dogs from the 1800's that have been bred to make the dogs I have. So I know what I am passing on and what I will get.
> ...


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## showoffpits (Mar 6, 2008)

thanks all if you can find me one that low of a price please let me know if your within reasonable driving distance....I get a classified every wed. and look at the sunday classifieds all the time and dogs around here with no papers are $200 in the paper and when I call b/c they might have a blue one or white one they say the litter has already been sold and then I look some more in the paper and find some ADBA or UKC or AKC dogs to find they are all priced at $700 and above....If I find one at $400 or below its prob. not got papers or its 4+ years old.


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## Patch-O-Pits (Jan 12, 2008)

showoffpits said:


> thanks all if you can find me one that low of a price please let me know if your within reasonable driving distance....I get a classified every wed. and look at the sunday classifieds all the time and dogs around here with no papers are $200 in the paper and when I call b/c they might have a blue one or white one they say the litter has already been sold and then I look some more in the paper and find some ADBA or UKC or AKC dogs to find they are all priced at $700 and above....If I find one at $400 or below its prob. not got papers or its 4+ years old.


 The classified is not the best place to find a reputable breeder. It is best to go to shows and working events and start talking to people there. Almost all good breeders have waiting lists for their pups before the breedings even take place. Also be aware they won't just sell to anyone off the street without forming some sort of relationship and screening the potential pup owner especially if the person is interested in a show quality pup who may be bred.

Most show quality/working quality pups are on average $500 and up and often on co-own so the breeder can monitor the breedings especially with a newbie breeder wanting a pup.
Some will place dogs with no fee but the dogs will stay on co-own.

If you really want to do things the right way you will have to take the time and possibly pay more.

Just because a pup comes from show or CH or working titled lines doesn't mean the pup is anything more than pet quality. So just make sure you also deal with a breeder who can explain to you how the pups are evaluated.

Titles don't automatically make a dog worthy of being bred

for instance:

Also keep in mind that even a show/working quality gorgeous pup may not pass health testing as an adult. Just food for though


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## OldFortKennels (Mar 10, 2006)

Hey Im really glad to see you stick it out here. That is really what this site is and should be about, helping others learn more about this breed. We welcome all questions, it keeps us on our toes too. If you are really serious about learning stay here and ask away, you will not find a better group of people.


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## Old_Blood (Jan 10, 2008)

showoffpits said:


> thanks all if you can find me one that low of a price please let me know if your within reasonable driving distance....I get a classified every wed. and look at the sunday classifieds all the time and dogs around here with no papers are $200 in the paper and when I call b/c they might have a blue one or white one they say the litter has already been sold and then I look some more in the paper and find some ADBA or UKC or AKC dogs to find they are all priced at $700 and above....If I find one at $400 or below its prob. not got papers or its 4+ years old.


You should go to shows and check outside your area. Not local classifieds. You don't have to pay $1500, if you do you are probably over paying, more then likely. I've dogs with registration at higher prices before but most are what $400-600 from fairly good breeders. You need to broaden your search area. Our new pup was $0 from registered with CH parents, I personally like the bloodline but people have their own opinion on likes, pup came from out of state, same with the puppy before. I didn't look in my paper for a pup. I'm trying to remember on the last dog paid for was like $500 I think, registration, pedigree, CH parents from out of state as well. You can't just expect to find a good breeder in your area. The prices in your area are very high too, probably for not even quality. I'm sure people on here could help you find a good breeder, maybe one thats close to you that you don't even know about since they probably don't put in classified adds.


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## GameIIDEF KENNELS (Aug 20, 2008)

*ur own bloodline*

well like the great dogmen before our time... they did it!? but may i ask a question wats wrong wit the bloodlines that have been strong for years from quailfied breeders.... my toughts are this on that touchy subject...if u have a great dog (stud) and the way he is bred is wat u want to continue to create don't cross with a female thats not anything like the male...for example purpose only....ur male is shy, but does everything u ask of him he jus not very people social but YOU LOVE HIM... and u have a very rapid fast high strung female busy busy busy and she keeps u on your toes a headache from morning to night. if profiting is your purpose of breeding PLEASE GET RID OF YOUR DOGS... but if u want those traits to carry on combined and these pups u produced to be shy and high strung are just another dog or do they have something to offer the game of breeding this line.... meaning... do i want alot of shy pups or a hyper pup wit a problem of focus...ASK THIS QUESTION WHEN BREEDING.....WHEN THE LITTER DROPS...AND THEY BEGIN TO SUCK ON THE NIPPLES...WOULD I KEEP ALL OF THEM OR SALE THEM... NOW OF COURSE U WILL SAY KEEP'EM ALL THEN THEY GROWN TO BE LITTLE MONSTER IF U DONT HAVE A PURPOSE FOR EVERY LAST PUPPY THAT COME OUT(house dog, weight puller, protection work, seeing eye, drug sniffer, and/or compainion) DONT BREED.. BUY A DOG FROM A GOOD BREEDING...u want wat u breed to have purpose to the goodside of this breed... to many people breed for profit and there not taking the time or the history of the dog and they are making there own bloodlines that attack people(game dogs have no want to harm people, bad breeding of this breed bites people, a bad dog bred to a crazy dog= crazy bad dog) and spending the money on cars clothes shoes and a movie ticket while like me if the dogs produces money he has it own bank account (my pocket) but still this account secures the well being of my dog not me i work i make my money and my studs will too for his pups and the bitch i breed into....so the profit comes from breeding sound, stable minded, strong structured, and of course the purpose for this breeding (for example again) sire is strong in the weight puller world... dame is very strong in weightpulling the puppies are bred so that every puppy has a weight pulling career til the day it retires.... thank u for listening to my thoughts like i said its very touchy and starting ur own bloodline is more then just breeding two dogs and saying the puppies are kaleb...thats true to be the way there breed but do u have anything off kaleb and this female that has a name for himself doing anything besides taking up room on the couch (no offense) but if your stud is stable minded and shows character be SURE the BITCH u use is the split image in personality first the looks then career of performance.. if u dont rush u will be fine to be honest i want my own line but i dont live in 1500's or 16 century so.... insure that the dogs bred out of your bloodline can work just as hard as long as fast and as smart as the famous lines out in the world today because the tru line of the famous pitbulls are watered down due to profit breeders and not linebreeders so try your best and the line might carry out just as long as colby or sorrell but see there bloodline came from there dogs doing the damn thang and when bred the offsprings did the mirror images...so if your pups dont do dont breed again PLEASE!!! but if your happy wit the turn out of every last pup then keep it going cuz we got a new line...and i want a puppy...but if she has 8 pups and only 3 are great dogs i wouldnt tell nobody i even had pups.....my last words..... the purpose for my dogs to be bred is for weight pulling and show... kid lover and lil old lady approved but dont get it twisted they are still dog agressive beside this not a german shepred or cocker spaniel they have the angel of death in there life and would take on a table saw... if i have 8pup i promise all eight will execute naturally to what there parents were...and there purpose was generated by me......u seen it, a dog have a lot of puppies and some are okay,, some are this some are that....screw that, those are the profit breeders i would hate for u to become.... the whole litter should be great all 8 doing and working like the were bred to do this!... lol... hope this passage to ur question just open your mind up more and if u could do me a favor to pay it forward.... please keep the breeding of great dogs to great dogs and let the weak never be bred again!


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## shadowgames (Jul 3, 2008)

Please private message me your number and I will be happy to spend some time talking. Showoffpits, please do so. I know men in these dogs for over 25 years of breeding some of the best dogs to touch the ground and they still don't have a blood line. You need to spend time researching and planning. Please call me I will shoot you straight but most of what you received is true. You want to start a bloodline do it the right way and if you start one and something as simple as being ran off from this thread because of criticism is going to make this a long hard road. I have seen people spend $20,000 in one year on dogs and end up producing crap and half the dogs ended up in shelters. Please call me and I will set you on a straight path if you are willing to take some advice. But a bloodline with your name behind is not a bloodline, just a name in front of a dog's name nothing more or less.

Game dogs can be man biters no matter if the sire or dam wasn't. I keep seeing this re occuring theme that game dog automatically makes them non HA, that is a load of crap. Game dogs can be human aggressive just like a Collie can be as well. The old men of the old days were POS in many instances don't go with BS you read in books of a great gentlemen sport. They shot each other, stole, rape, sold dope, trade and treated dogs like POS, killed hundreds if not thousands of dogs for no reasons except they didn't make the cut. But there is a gentlemen's side to the sport believe or not but only about 1%. More dog butchers than dog men, some of the greats you hear about were the worst. There is so much that is not written but still known.


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## MADBood (May 31, 2008)

WTF? Why is this thread even being brought up again? How about introducing yourself to the forum first before posting up some long ass run-on bunch of nonsense. :stick:


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## Flametree (Jul 31, 2008)

*Well???*

Pick a line you like,,,,improve the line if you can. Maybe in 30 or 40 years the world may consider your dogs a line?


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## GnarlyBlue (Aug 18, 2007)

mods, throw this one out please!! close thread or something make it go away


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## philly pitbull (Sep 5, 2008)

i agree with everything you're saying. thats how i feel about ukc and adba. how can a apbt be full bred and its over 100 lbs. i wish you luck on everything you are doing.


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