# The bully deal



## Dr.Q (Jan 12, 2010)

I have never seen a bully around my area. Persons in Puerto Rico just don't mix them. Now, I have seen pictures in the internet and I think they are beatifull dogs and all. I allways wondered if they are game.


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## Wingman (Oct 21, 2009)

I think it really has to do with what style of bully it is, what lines they come off of, and a lot of things. Generally from what I've heard bully's tend to be a little more mellow, but I know of a few people who have hot bullys...


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Bullys show no sign of game as they haven't been tested.
Some may have a high drive?
But from what i've heard is that bullys are bred to take away the DA


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## jayandlacy (Sep 21, 2009)

I am no expert, I have a apbt in my home as well as a dog that is "half" bully, half apbt. His mom was apbt, dad bully. My apbt is significantly older then my bully, bully is 1 pit is 6. My 6 year old will toss this bully around! Kaos-the bully, is calmer, less drive. He will stop tugging the tug rope before Ice-the apbt. they get into tug too, its like a dog fight without any actual fighting if that makes sense-it's really serious with shaking and growling and all that, without blood and injuries and contact. And Kaos weighs around 5lbs more then Ice.

Kaos is just as dog aggressive as Ice is though. Not towards eachother just other dogs. Ice is all about getting things: bugs, moths, squirrels, killed some bunnies, ground hog-he tried but didn't get him thank God, cats ect. anything that moves is game to him-cept our inside animals, he don't touch them. Kaos on the other hand chases nothing but dogs. He don't try to get squirrels, he don't care about chasing bugs around the house....They are very different dogs, so is that personality differences or breed differences? Idk, but I do know that they are different.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Dr.Q said:


> I have never seen a bully around my area. Persons in Puerto Rico just don't mix them. Now, I have seen pictures in the internet and I think they are beatifull dogs and all. I allways wondered if they are game.


No one here will be able to answer this question as the activity that you're referring to is illegal. Game is different to drive/aggression.


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

They are bred away from gameness. Could a single dog still retain gameness from his past? Yes, it could happen, but on the average they are not game.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Dr.Q said:


> I allways wondered if they are game.


We will all wonder, until we see the news reports on TV about dogfighting and they show people using bullies instead of the real deal 

(the wink does not insinuate anything either) 

(nor does the smile)


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Noone would know as I don't believe anyone is actively testing them. They are not a dog bred for the box so they are not used in the box so they in turn don't have a way to prove gameness. Since Dog fighting is illegal here in the US where the Bully is most popular I don't see anyone starting a bully fight fad but ya never know.


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## Mcleod15 (Jul 17, 2009)

People have tested bullys against bulldogs in the pit before and it didn't end well.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Mcleod15 said:


> People have tested bullys against bulldogs in the pit before and it didn't end well.


Putting a bully in the [] is like putting a EBD in a greyhound race.


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

Mcleod15 said:


> People have tested bullys against bulldogs in the pit before and it didn't end well.


I witnessed a 15 minute roll about 5 years ago. While the bully never quite, he was VERY winded and his lack of agility showed. While gameness didn't get tested there, his lack of ability was evident.


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

Don't judge a book by its cover ...I've seen many well conditioned bullies that seem to have the heart to not want to stop whatever is asked of them, and I know game is only proven in one way but you have to give the benefit of the doubt that a dog of untested lineage still may carry the will and heart to continue under all circumstances(GAME)


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

fishinrob said:


> I witnessed a 15 minute roll about 5 years ago. While the bully never quite, he was VERY winded and his lack of agility showed. While gameness didn't get tested there, his lack of ability was evident.


That's interesting, so if he were conditioned and worked with to fix his 'ability', would it then be possible that he could be game?

I mean, I've heard of some dogs (apbt) quiting after 10 minutes, and if this bully continued for 15... hmmmm.


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

I have no doubt a few Bully's are game just like some Amstaffs are. The game gene has just been diluted alot and your percentages on getting a game dog are very low. 15 minute rolls aren't a true test. When a dog faces adversity and his life is in the balance, that's when the cream rises to the top. Trust me, Bully's are being tried out somewhere and if they get a game dog he will be bred. There will be a fighting line at some point.


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

My first and only bully show I went to, I noticed that most of the dogs were mellow and there wasn't a lot of attitude being slung around. I also saw a fight break out between two of the dogs there, but I'm not sure if that's indicative of any level of gameness, just dog-aggression. (Incidentally, the dogs grabbed each other and _sat down_, there wasn't a lot of explosive action like you would normally see with APBTs.)

That said, the traditional method of testing for gameness is illegal, so most people wouldn't cop to it even if it were going on.


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

bahamutt99 said:


> My first and only bully show I went to, I noticed that most of the dogs were mellow and there wasn't a lot of attitude being slung around. I also saw a fight break out between two of the dogs there, but I'm not sure if that's indicative of any level of gameness, just dog-aggression. (Incidentally, the dogs grabbed each other and _sat down_, there wasn't a lot of explosive action like you would normally see with APBTs.)
> 
> That said, the traditional method of testing for gameness is illegal, so most people wouldn't cop to it even if it were going on.


Most apbt matches weren't/arn't blood bathes...Two bullies don't depict the whole breed, just like two apbt don't...Many apbt quit in the first minute and I'm sure most bullies would'nt last that long but there are dogs out there that "could have been" Ch's...Still a cur is a cur whether bully or apbt and it may take a lot longer to have proved that.Every dog has its day!


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## william williamson (Feb 26, 2006)

I've yet to see a fat sloppy overweight guy,in A cheap suit willing to fight.
and put A warrior in front of him,he'd p his pants or blow his chunks.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

I don't see why someone would even bother with it. If you put the effort into something like that why would you fight a bully rather than a dog that was bred and made for the combat? Then if you fighting bullies they are defiantly not standard bullies they are fit and in shape and would be bred for athletics.... So then your heading back to an APBT. I don't see why the APBT can't be the APBT and the Bully just be the Bully and everyone stop trying to be like someone else


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Great post AP13


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## bahamutt99 (May 14, 2008)

Novakkennels said:


> Most apbt matches weren't/arn't blood bathes...Two bullies don't depict the whole breed, just like two apbt don't...


Not sure if that was meant to refute what I said, but I was just sharing my experience. I haven't been around very many bullies, but I've never seen two Pit Bulls sit down and just hold each others faces either. Just like AP13 said, I don't see why anybody would bother. Its like folks want to have their cake and eat it, too. Very, very, few people have really managed to craft a dog that is a contender in his own venue and others' as well.


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

I think most of the Bully people like them because they LOOK like the baddest dogs on the planet. We like game dogs because they ARE the baddest dogs on the planet. It's a lot better feeling knowing you are the best as opposed faking it and puffing out your chest to fool people. That's why they want them to be tough, other wise you realize you have a corvette body with a two hamsters on a treadmill under the hood.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

I wouldn't own a bully, but i do love the nice lean conditioned bullies.
Also what is up with extreme bullys? they are in no way worked at all, they are overweight, you are ment to see atleast two back ribs, or feel them, with those thiongs youd have to cut in with a scapal and find the ribs, no wonder they die early sue to being obese.


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

Maybe ya'll took me wrong, all I was saying is not all bullies are completely obese and lazy with no drive, some still carry many of the characteristics of the apbt. I know folks shouln't try and fix something that isnt broken.:hammer: But truly how many of you have tested dogs in your house/yard?


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Novakkennels said:


> Maybe ya'll took me wrong, all I was saying is not all bullies are completely obese and lazy with no drive, some still carry many of the characteristics of the apbt. I know folks shouln't try and fix something that isnt broken.:hammer: *But truly how many of you have tested dogs in your house/yard*?


They may cary some charateristics but so would say... apbtxlab apbtxpoodle, but not enough to go the distance.

*Don't be silly no one is going to answer that question*


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

MISSAPBT said:


> They may cary some charateristics but so would say... apbtxlab apbtxpoodle, but not enough to go the distance.
> 
> *Don't be silly no one is going to answer that question*


IDK...How many bullies have you been around?...lab...poodles..come on:rofl:


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

I have to admit NONE, we do not have anything like bullys in New Zealand, we have APBT's anything else that is a cross into it is called a mutt where i am from.

Well look what the bully has bred into it, anywhere from a neo, corso, mastiff to a EBD, lab what the diffrence, weight?


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

You have American Pit Bull Terrers?


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Novakkennels said:


> You have American Pit Bull Terrers?


Indeed i do


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

Like the old saying goes "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"....FYI when the bull and terrier where first crossed they probably called it a mut too!


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Novakkennels said:


> Like the old saying goes "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"....FYI when the bull and terrier where first crossed they probably called it a mut too!


Corse it was, all breeds were, but our blueprints have been made for us, we don't need to **** with them

:woof:


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

Huh? "Our blueprints have been made for us" who?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Lets not ruin this thread by making it an APBT/bully pissing match.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Novakkennels said:


> Huh? "Our blueprints have been made for us" who?


History has, or is it ok to crossbred all the breeds together making millions or 'hybrid, dogs? Leaving no such thing as "pure"


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

American_Pit13 said:


> Lets not ruin this thread by making it an APBT/bully pissing match.


Not my intentions, I only own one bully and she looks similar to the dog in your avatar. I'm an apbt man myself but cant stand the hatred to the cousin Am bully.....nuff said


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

This is just comical bullies will never be game they were never bred for gameness some may show some level of DA but that's about it. Every dog is a cur until proven otherwise. Every breed has a purpose and standard there is no need to mess with established breeds find a breed that suites your needs and liking and be happy with it. Know one is hating on bullies the only thing people hate is when people breed and pass them off as APBT's when they are not never have been and never will be.


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

So you consider your dogs curs?...Are they proven?..Your thing obove your pic says "No curs allowed"?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Yep my dogs are curs as they relate to being pit dogs because they have never been game tested and never will be IMO they are all cur's until they prove otherwise meaning actually proven game in the box. My dog's are cur's but I am not that's what my little saying no cur's allowed is in reference to.

Ever hear the saying don't be surprised when they quit be surprised when they don't?


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Sadie said:


> ... bullies will never be game they were never bred for gameness some may show some level of DA but that's about it...


Saying never is not good. I mean someone reading this may want to prove that statement wrong and in 100 years, who knows? Maybe bullies will start being bred for fighting at some point and matched against each other and get the title of being game.

I mean after all, the apbt was man-made to be game, is it possible that the bully can too?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

NesOne said:


> Saying never is not good. I mean someone reading this may want to prove that statement wrong and in 100 years, who knows? Maybe bullies will start being bred for fighting at some point and matched against each other and get the title of being game.
> 
> I mean after all, the apbt was man-made to be game, is it possible that the bully can too?


During the 100 year process of making it game you would turn it right back into a pitbull.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

What is the point in this thread, Bullys arent bred for gameness, so why are they being compaired?

Show me a bully with 2 broken legs been in the [] for 2 hours and ready to scratch again to the oposition, no care for death.

Yes they may be able work, but they have never showed gamness


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

I agree with MissAPBT on the point of why are they even being compared...the American Bully is not being bred for gameness...if you want the qualities of an APBT...buy an APBT...if you desire the qualities of an American Bully...buy an American Bully...plain and simple...i'm not gonna buy an English Bulldog and try to compare him to a Golden Retriever just cause he brings me the tennis ball back...if ya know what I mean...2 different breeds...plain and simple...like I said before...I like oranges...you like apples...lol..leave it at that


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

:goodpost:

I think too many people comapare them, enjoy each one for what they are.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

American_Pit13 said:


> During the 100 year process of making it game you would turn it right back into a pitbull.


True... but not an American Pitbull Terrier


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

NesOne said:


> Saying never is not good. I mean someone reading this may want to prove that statement wrong and in 100 years, who knows? Maybe bullies will start being bred for fighting at some point and matched against each other and get the title of being game.
> 
> I mean after all, the apbt was man-made to be game, is it possible that the bully can too?


Nes that's silly the purpose of the american bully was to breed out the DA and create a much more manageable dog bred for looks or a certain statue they are now a designer dog and their purpose has been accomplished/ established. Why would you want to take a dog bred for looks and a much heavier bulky form (notice I didn't say athletic ability) without the gameness trait (because bully's have never been bred for gameness which is essential to breeding a warrior dog) and try to breed them for fighting purposes?

The APBT has always been and will always be the ultimate warrior know one who is serious about boxing dogs is ever going to use or breed an Am-bully for the box as long as the APBT is alive. You might have some clown try it there are a lot of those in the world but that's about it serious dog men are going to stick to bulldogs that's what they were made for.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Sadie said:


> Nes that's silly the purpose of the american bully was to breed out the DA and create a much more manageable dog bred for looks or a certain statue they are now a designer dog and their purpose has been accomplished/ established. Why would you want to take a dog bred for looks and a much heavier bulky form (notice I didn't say athletic ability) without the gameness trait (because bully's have never been bred for gameness which is essential to breeding a warrior dog) and try to breed them for fighting purposes?
> 
> The APBT has always been and will always be the ultimate warrior know one who is serious about boxing dogs is ever going to use or breed an Am-bully for the box as long as the APBT is alive. You might have some clown try it there are a lot of those in the world but that's about it serious dog men are going to stick to bulldogs that's what they were made for.


So your answer is "it's impossible".


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

NesOne said:


> So your answer is "it's impossible".


Yes ... Because No Real dog man is going to ever try it or want to try it and why in the hell would they? LOL they would have a better chance of using the modern day show staff if the APBT was no longer an option because at least those dogs have a box history we can trace them back to game dogs. Most of these bully's are mixed with all types of breeds the amstaff just went a different direction the show ring but there history and what they once were will never change.


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

Not impossible...just pointless...imo...would take alot of crossing back to original game lines to bring the traits back...but it would serve no purpose...why would ANYONE want to take a dog who has been bred for show and companionship purposes and try and make something else out of it...i've never been much for 'what if' conversations so i'll leave it at that...lots of good posts above...


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

Good to have discussions like this though that are free of insult...what a nice change lol...I disagree with some of the statements that the American Bully is a mix of soooo many different breeds but hey...thats another thread...lol...


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## Black Rabbit (Nov 14, 2009)

I think this thread is on a one way track to nowhere. 
We can all agree they are separate breed with separate purposes wether it be show, box, or looks they will never be the same dogs. I don't see a need for this to keep going back and forth.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

It is impossible, as if bullys were good in the [] then dogmen would be using them as catchweight, but thats just stupid, like lonestar said they are two diffrent brreds, the are not bred for purposes like the APBT.

Comon people!?!?!


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

It's impossible you would have to cull virtually the entire breed they are not structurally built for the sport for one. I mean just look at this picture and tell me how in the world why in the world would a dog man want to take this dog who is probably mixed with a few breeds and try and breed it to a bulldog standard? Don't you see how preposterous that is????


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

LOL @ Sadie...okay buddie...I think he got the point...
Awesome Pic btw...


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

[email protected] Lonestar I am not downing on these dogs I am just saying the idea is beyond foolish only a clown would try something like that is my point. No serious dog man is going to touch it with a 10 foot pole. Every breed has it's purpose just pick a breed that suites your needs and be happy.


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

Sadie said:


> [email protected] Lonestar I am not downing on these dogs I am just saying the idea is beyond foolish only a clown would try something like that is my point. No serious dog man is going to touch it with a 10 foot pole. Every breed has it's purpose just pick a breed that suites your needs and be happy.


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh my my first post is on a bully thread.

I agree that bully people cop a fair bit of flak from the gamedog people but its justified.
The greatest athletic breed the world has ever produced was taken , mixed and the taken five steps backward on the evolutionary scale.

Idiots are using a small part of the dogs history[the apbt part] and using it to line their pockets with wads of cash. Then when it suits they are not "pitbulls" anymore because it suits them. Poor breeding prctices are giving bully owners a dog that will live half as long as what it should and the amount of bully people who have reported joint, breathing and ageing issues is very high compared to those that are happy with them the results are everywhere.

Fat dogs with spiked collars infront of thug types and their lowriders are contibuting to ruining the breeds as much as any irresponsible owner whos dog is at large or anyone who has been busted for matching.

Just when the majority of APBT owners were realising[better late than never] that we should shut our mouths and close our circles to protect our dogs from the average owner, some average owners started the bully bandwagon and are now doing the exact oppisite of what the people who have had these dogs for years dont want to happen, loud morons, big showy idiots, bullies on rap filmclips and breeders explioting their clients and still not knowing if they want their dogs to be called pitbulls or not.
Even the bully breeders dont know what their dog is.
I am yet to see any footage of any big name breeder, Remy,greyline or who ever who even sounds like they know the first thing about genetics or breeding their stock, they all come accross as backyard hacks who just want a fat wad.

Then Bully owners feel the need to proove there chosen breed to us by posting videos of their dogs running after moving cars for twenty metres and we are supossed to be impressed?
Or describing their dogs temp and "gameness" when they themselves dont understand what the meaning is.
Advertising what sells and what the particular client wants to hear , if they want a gaurd dog they are a gaurd dog, if they want a pitbull they have a pitbull, if they want a bully they have bullys.

Bullie will never ever be game and are not supossed to be.
Anyone who wants to box a bully will have a hard time finding a dog in their weight division and will eventually quit like their dog does, or they will end up going home without a dog at the end of the day.

I think their are a hell of alot of great bully owners out there who are trying to help the breed and have no problems with admitting what their dog is.
Even more credit to the bully owners who rescued their dogs in a time when the bully breeders are lining the streets with dogs and everywhere they exist pretty much has an over population problem.

I have said it before i have no issues with the dogs themselves just the idiots who breed a unhealthy animal at a stupidly inflated price and the other idiots who pay those amounts and keep the morons in the business.

the biggest shame is that exploiting a colour and a dog to get a fat pocket wouldve been the last thing the originator of the breed would have wanted.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

junkyard said:


> Oh my my first post is on a bully thread.
> 
> I agree that bully people cop a fair bit of flak from the gamedog people but its justified.
> The greatest athletic breed the world has ever produced was taken , mixed and the taken five steps backward on the evolutionary scale.
> ...


Thanks Junk for that well spoken  Nice of you to join us :goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

You got a way of words dingo . good post!


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

They should call this site "Go Gamedog"...or "Go Apbt". Though its better to know where bully lovers are not wanted


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## Mach0 (Mar 28, 2010)

junkyard said:


> Oh my my first post is on a bully thread.
> 
> I agree that bully people cop a fair bit of flak from the gamedog people but its justified.
> The greatest athletic breed the world has ever produced was taken , mixed and the taken five steps backward on the evolutionary scale.
> ...


Great post!


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

Just out of curiousity might make people made but from what I read about the history when these types of dogs were used to bully bait it said they worked together sometimes and so they must not have had da this must be a trait that supposed dogmen breed into this dog. Well if the original had the will to do anything to finish what it started and to take on bulls but wasnt overly da wouldnt this have been a better dog. Some could argue that these dogmen might have ruined a gladiator of a dog that was controlable makeing them so prey driven or game that you cant even breed them together without a rape stand. just my thoughts as well as I thought. I too hate the low and wide dogs but some of the am bullies that look well breed and big are cool to me. the ones that look mastif in style but thinner more agile looking


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Novakkennels said:


> They should call this site "Go Gamedog"...or "Go Apbt". Though its better to know where bully lovers are not wanted


Nova anyone is welcome on this site regardless of what type of dog they own. You just have to understand not everyone is going to like the bully style dogs as long as people are respectful though I don't see why they can't voice there opinions. I don't dislike the American Bully my issue is not with the dogs themselves I have an issue with the breeder's who are breeding the dogs with no concern for the dogs breeding unhealthy dog's for thousands of dollars is not ok in my book and then using the APBT name to market them. And my other issue is with owner's who will not call them what they are. Granted some don't really know because of all the lies behind those dogs. However once they learn the truth some still refer to them as APBT's when they are NOT. Then you have breeder's and owner's who want to always compare bullies to the APBT there is no comparison they are completely different dogs with different purposes.

And there are some folks who dislike the game dog they think they are too skinny to small ect it goes both ways. The whole point is people can feed whatever makes them happy people will always have an opinion and when you come to an online forum you just have to agree to disagree when things get heated or a topic is at a dead end. This topic has been beaten to a pulp and it will be reintroduced and touched on again it's just like the whole blue dog topic it's a never ending debate. Gotta have thick skin and roll with the punches. To be fair though I feel like even though us game bred lover's chimed in on this thread and gave our opinions I feel we were very respectful. This is not a specific forum for just bullies you will see people who own staff's, game bred dogs, bullies, rescues, mixed breeds. If you are looking for a forum that only show's love to bully's I know there are some out there. Other than that we welcome all dogs regardless of type.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

I also thought the old english bulldog was thought to have been a breed they used to make the APBT is this coorect or something I missunderstood


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Sadie said:


> Yes ... Because No Real dog man is going to ever try it or want to try it and why in the hell would they? LOL


Agreed, it's like Wyatt Earp said in Tombstone: "There's no money in it"


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

NesOne said:


> Agreed, it's like Wyatt Earp said in Tombstone: "There's no money in it"


LMAO .... :rofl:


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Novakkennels said:


> They should call this site "Go Gamedog"...or "Go Apbt". Though its better to know where bully lovers are not wanted


I would sure hope not or I have been on the wrong forum for the last 3 years......

Its nothing against Bullies. People took the APBT and bred it into a heavy, non working pet. Making a new breed of dog for a completely different function having nothing to do with the box. What would be the point to take one of these dogs and then turn around and go back track and start using it for the purpose that it was bred away from.

IMO the whole thought is just dumb. Destroy dogs to make a breed just to make it back into the original breed?

American Bullies do American Bully things
APBTS do APBTS things

Why is it so much of a hassle to let APBTS be APBTS and Bullies be Bullies.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

not trying to be smart here but what do bullies do.


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## NesOne (Feb 7, 2008)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> not trying to be smart here but what do bullies do.


Rake in thousands per dog LMAO.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> not trying to be smart here but what do bullies do.


Depending on the dog they can compete in a variety of things from conformation, weightpull, obedience, agility for your "classic" dogs, as well as SCH.

It very much depends on how the dog was bred and how it can fuction as well as what the owner does with it. Ones persons house pet could be a GRCH in another home. Just depends on what road you take with your dog.


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Nova anyone is welcome on this site regardless of what type of dog they own. You just have to understand not everyone is going to like the bully style dogs as long as people are respectful though I don't see why they can't voice there opinions. I don't dislike the American Bully my issue is not with the dogs themselves I have an issue with the breeder's who are breeding the dogs with no concern for the dogs breeding unhealthy dog's for thousands of dollars is not ok in my book and then using the APBT name to market them. And my other issue is with owner's who will not call them what they are. Granted some don't really know because of all the lies behind those dogs. However once they learn the truth some still refer to them as APBT's when they are NOT. Then you have breeder's and owner's who want to always compare bullies to the APBT there is no comparison they are completely different dogs with different purposes.
> 
> And there are some folks who dislike the game dog they think they are too skinny to small ect it goes both ways. The whole point is people can feed whatever makes them happy people will always have an opinion and when you come to an online forum you just have to agree to disagree when things get heated or a topic is at a dead end. This topic has been beaten to a pulp and it will be reintroduced and touched on again it's just like the whole blue dog topic it's a never ending debate. Gotta have thick skin and roll with the punches. To be fair though I feel like even though us game bred lover's chimed in on this thread and gave our opinions I feel we were very respectful. This is not a specific forum for just bullies you will see people who own staff's, game bred dogs, bullies, rescues, mixed breeds. If you are looking for a forum that only show's love to bully's I know there are some out there. Other than that we welcome all dogs regardless of type.





American_Pit13 said:


> I would sure hope not or I have been on the wrong forum for the last 3 years......
> 
> Its nothing against Bullies. People took the APBT and bred it into a heavy, non working pet. Making a new breed of dog for a completely different function having nothing to do with the box. What would be the point to take one of these dogs and then turn around and go back track and start using it for the purpose that it was bred away from.
> 
> ...


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

Novakkennels said:


> I think there has been direspectful things said on every thread comparing bullies. Reread this thread...And whos destroying dogs...You guys bash any bully owner who speaks up for their dog.


There are alot of people who own and love bullie on this site and most of the people that I have seen talk bad about them are made about bullie breeders calling them APBT.
You also have a lot of people that truely do hate the extreme dogs because they are no longer realy functional like some of the other bullies.
everyone has they're own prefrences but you just have to take it less personal.

There are people that will say may dog is worthless beacuse no papers and I got him from a byb but this doent bother me cause I love my dog


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Novakkennels said:


> I think there has been direspectful things said on every thread comparing bullies. Reread this thread...And whos destroying dogs...You guys bash any bully owner who speaks up for their dog. Go back to gamedog site for that crap.last I checked the dog next to the "go pitbull" logo looked bully to me. The next time you talk about bullis being fat and lazy good for nothin etc... Go look in the mirror and see how "conditioned" you are you fu***** hypocrites I'm DONE!


The making of the American Bully DESTROYED 1000's of dogs. The American Bully has made a breed that have some great dogs now but in the creating of that breed 1000's if not more dogs where bred so short nosed and bowlegged they could barely walk. Plus many other health and conformational flaws.

I actually just stated what Bullies where good for but I guess you have issues reading anything other than the negative that you want to pick out.

Here let me put it in bold for ya 


American_Pit13 said:


> *Depending on the dog they can compete in a variety of things from conformation, weightpull, obedience, agility for your "classic" dogs, as well as SCH.*
> 
> It very much depends on how the dog was bred and how it can fuction as well as what the owner does with it. Ones persons house pet could be a GRCH in another home. Just depends on what road you take with your dog.


There are negative things about bullies. There are negative things about everything. This is a public discussion forum where people will have opinions. 
When people start trying to compare bullies to APBT these opinions are gonna come out. Thats life.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

I could see some of the good breed bullie being better at shx because of the size differnce.

I wonder though if a english mastiff could do just as well though of if the bullie would be more athletic(not xxl bullie)


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## Novakkennels (Jul 16, 2010)

Ya keep ridin the nuts of internet doggers... JUST MY OPINION..right?I'll go back to the bully forum now lol! I know Iknow good riddins to me lol


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

well you know what you can act like a child all you want cant hear no opposing ideas I was trying to be nice and show you something different and well we see how you resonded to that


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Novakkennels said:


> Ya keep ridin the nuts of internet doggers... JUST MY OPINION..right?I'll go back to the bully forum now lol! I know Iknow good riddins to me lol


A few people are meerly stating their opinions, from what i see it is 50/50 as far as who owns apbt and who owns bullies on this forum, majority of both parties get along, we just like to have a debate every now and then.

Don't let this thread drive you away. Be a proud bully owner.


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

I've spoke to some of the old bully breeders and they do not like the outcome of the new bullies now. Just to be clear, there are 2 types of American Bully. The original American bully bread to remove agression, so Amstaff was mixed in with APBT since UKC also considered Amstaff in the same category. The result was tall and muscular. The ther bully is the Pocket bully. This Bully version is no longer from Amstaff and APBT. Other breed has been added to create the short snout, low and round bodies (not muscular anymore). There are a lot of old school bully breeders that hates pocket bully, (not just APBT lovers) because of the bad results like overbite/underbite, limber tail syndrome, and other health problems. These issue has been discussed many times, but a lot of pocket breeders are ignoring it.


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Those ones are very OTT, when they start getting put in categories eg: pocket, XL XXL ect.
I have to say i do love Indigo Bully Connections, and Ap13's bullies, great examples of a well bred AmBully.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

max said:


> I've spoke to some of the old bully breeders and they do not like the outcome of the new bullies now. Just to be clear, there are 2 types of American Bully. The original American bully bread to remove agression, so Amstaff was mixed in with APBT since UKC also considered Amstaff in the same category. .


The APBT X Amstaff dogs are pitter staffs. UKC/AKC style show bred dogs. They are not american Bullies.

American Bullies came from the mixing of mastiff and other obvious breeds of dogs. This made for many terrible combinations and over the years and selective breeding they have started to produce some well put together dogs that fit the bully standard.

MissAPBT my dogs are good examples of Bullies because they have minimal "bully blood" and it is from the Amstaff dogs so they don't have any of those extreme dogs in their lines ( Gotti debatable depending on personal opinion). They are heavily bred from UKC CH and GRCH dogs so they come with nice conformation in the lines. As well as I stick to a UKC style dogs so my pups stayed in that direction.

Now seeing dogs like Shanas who are heavily bully bred and still are correct and well functioning dogs is nice to see.

Taking a Gaff dog or a Heavy Amstaff and calling it a well put together American Bully is cheating.


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

MISSAPBT said:


> Those ones are very OTT, when they start getting put in categories eg: pocket, XL XXL ect.
> I have to say i do love Indigo Bully Connections, and Ap13's bullies, great examples of a well bred AmBully.


Some breeders/people just exaggerate when it comes to size to advertise their kennel. Here is an example of a thread from the different forum. Sorry for the caps that's how it was posted. This discussion was about underbite/overbite becoming frequent in the litter.



> _IT IS A REAL MESS WE ALL HAVE CREATED, I REMEMBER MY MENTOR TOLD ME ONE TIME, IF YOU HAVE A DOG WITH A LONG MUG YOU BREED HER TO A MALE THAT HAS A SHORTER MUG AND VICEVERSA, OTHERWISE BECAUSE THE GENES ARE SO TIGHT IT ONLY MAKES IT WORSE. RECENTLY I SPOKE WITH A GREAT FRIEND OF MINE AND ONE OF THE PIONEERS ON THE BULLY MOVEMENT AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS LOOKING FOR A MALE THAT WAS MORE CORRECT AND MUCH CLOSER TO THE ORIGINAL LOOK THAN THE CURRENT BULLIES BECAUSE "WHAT WE HAVE DONE TO THESE DOGS IS A FREAKING SHAME, WITH THE BARREL CHEST, THE HUGE MASS OF BONE AND MUSCLE WHICH CLEARLY THESE DOGS WERE NOT MEANT TO CARRY AND ALSO THE INCREASE OF BREATHING PROBLEMS AND HEART PROBLEMS" THIS FROM SOMEONE THAT I KNOW FOR A FACT REALLY PUT A LOT OF EFFORT ON GETTING THE BULLIES OUT THERE. OBVIOUSLY I CAN NOT MENTION HIS NAME OUT OF RESPECT TO HIS FRIENDSHIP AND BECAUSE I DID NOT ASK HIM..BUT TRUST ME HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. MAYBE IS TIME TO START BREEDING BACK SOME OF THE ORIGINAL PIT BACK TO BRING OUR BULLIES TO WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE....FREE OF MAJOR HEALTH ISSUES WHICH IS THE MAIN REASON I GOT A PIT TO BEGIN WITH INSTEAD OF A SHARPEI!!! LOL!!! _


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

LOL...Man I leave for a few hours and come back to all this...Nova don't run off man, not everyone in life is gonna agree wit you bro...thats just the way things are...would make for a boring world if it were that way...
I haven't seen much on this thread that could be labeled as hate or disrespect...just a few people voicing there opinions...now when we start the stereotyping about lowriders and gangsterrrzzz lol...then thats lame...I could stereotype right back...but why...I am here for the doggies...I know not everyones gonna like me...and i'm not gonna like everyone here...but when it comes down to it...there is a lotta good stuff to learn here on both breeds...anyways enough rambling...I hope ya stick around bro...
As far as someone asked...what can bullies do...or however it was worded...bullies compete in plenty of events...I believe AP13 summed it up pretty good on that topic...


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

Lone Star said:


> As far as someone asked...what can bullies do...or however it was worded...bullies compete in plenty of events...I believe AP13 summed it up pretty good on that topic...


when I asked I didnt mean it negativly just wondering and ap13 explained it well enough:roll:


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

you can go back to the bully forum or you can say here and have a healthy debate, no one is attacking any individual. i am even happy to leave myself i have another forum to moderate, i just saw a spot that i though was missing some valid points so i added them.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Junkyard thanks for coming over to put your twist on this thread your a good guy mate! I think you were very respectful and you made a lot of valid points.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

Lone -star, i am sorry if i have offended you with my post and what you saw as a generalisation/stereotype. I pretty much call it as i see it, and i dont pull any hidden cards on you.
All it was , was a generalisation, i never once said it was the entire stereotype. 
You may think its lame but its true.
And if you would like to throw around a stereotype on gamebred owners i realy dont mind, because i wouldnt fit into it anyway.
Personally people who dont fit labeled stereotypes get offended , personally i dont it aint gonna change what i am witha few words.

I would like to ask you a question as from what i am assuming you are a bully owner, from whats written in your sig. Do you think the originator of the breed[bullies] wouldve wanted the bullies that are around today? 36inch heads, bowed front legs , poor structure, prizes for the "biggest head" or "shortest dog" . 
I dont think he would have wanted a show dog with no standard,.

It does look like every abomination that is born and should be culled from any breeding regime is praised and gives you a new class of dog, that dogs wins prizes for pretty much being unhealthy and a new fad of poorly bred dogs is born has a price slapped on the to make them look better than what they are and to fool the consumer into thinking "at that price they must be special" , partly being a uneducated consumer its on you if you buy a dog that will never see out the life it could have, but isnt it misleading?


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Perfect example a bully stud dog for 25,000 !!! What justifies this dog's sperm being 25,000 ? That is the price of a car look at this dog the first one then look at all the dogs on this website they all are poorly bred yet they charge 25,000 for a stud fee on a dog that probably won't live past 6-7 years old and will produce unsound structure and health problems in the offspring just doesn't make any sense to me and there are no titles no health testing done on the dog yet the consumer see's a 130 pound blue dog and thinks this is the top of the line pitbull and the guy on this site kills me he has one of the dogs listed for stud for a (limited time only) LMAO.

Here is what he say's about this 25,000 stud dog 








Oh and here is the link

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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

continued ......

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UNMATCHED. *HIS BEST ADVERTISEMENTS HAVE NEVER COME FROM MY MOUTH, THEY HAVE COME FROM THE FREAKS HE HAS PUT ON THE GROUND, PLACING MANY KENNELS ON THE MAP! PICTURES BELOW ARE JUST A FEW EXAMPLES OF WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT WHEN YOU GET A DIRECT "KING LION" SON. NOTHING BUT FREAKS TO JUICE UP YOUR KENNEL!!!*

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*

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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

For 25,000 what he is saying is you can breed an unhealthy freak ( notice he uses the word freak many times as if that is something to be proud of SMH.) This is the average mentality of the bully breeder and owner like junkyard said thank god that's slowly changing owner's are wising up about these dogs and I know there are bully breeder's trying to do right by these dogs by breeding them back or to the standard they originated from. But this a prime example why there is that stereotype and it reflects the owner's as well. And of course the dog is wearing a BIG old spike collar his owner has him on a big old link chain leash in one picture. It's that big and bad image that owner's and breeder's should be steering clear of .. Yet you never seem to see this with game dog kennels. When is the last time you saw a game dog wearing a spike collar like that? I have never seen one not saying there might not be one but typically game dog kennels and owner's don't market there dogs this way.


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

Sadie said:


> For 25,000 what he is saying is you can own an unhealthy freak ( notice he uses the word freak many times as if that is something to be proud of SMH.) This is the average mentality of the bully breeder and owner like junkyard said thank god that's slowly changing owner's are wising up about these dogs and I know there are bully breeder's trying to do right by these dogs by breeding them back or to the standard they originated from. But this a prime example why there is that stereotype and it reflects the owner's as well. And of course the dog is wearing a BIG old spike collar his owner has him on a big old link chain leash in one picture. It's that big and bad image that owner's and breeder's should be steering clear of .. Yet you never seem to see this with game dog kennels. When is the last time you saw a game dog wearing a spike collar like that? I have never seen one not saying there might not be one but typically game dog kennels and owner's don't market there dogs this way.


By the way, that dog died last week. No kidding.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

fishinrob said:


> By the way, that dog died last week. No kidding.


No way? Did it really?? I mean I am not surprised and the dog was only 11 months old and 130 lbs  That's so sad RIP King


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

would you say an ambullie is any apbt mixed with anything or just ones mixed with certian breeds of dogs. Just asking cause the guy the gave me the dog sounded like he might have done some wierd stuff when discribing what i'll say could be in my dog. From my very uneducated guess though he looks very pit but know I'm wondering if I should call him an AMbullie. Now I know without papers hes just a mutt but I hate calling him that


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Thier about me page they market and sell them as APBT's and then have the gull to say we don't breed them to be tall and lanky like Giraffe's LOL even though that is the standard for the APBT!!! This is what pisses people off these guys use the APBT name to sell there 5,000+ dogs and then turn around and basically say that tall lanky dogs are not how the APBT is supposed to look when that IS the standard of the APBT. It's all a bunch of lies and misleading and people are spending thousands of dollars for what they believe is the APBT not knowing they are going to pay more for medical bills than they did for the dog when it's all said and done.

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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> would you say an ambullie is any apbt mixed with anything or just ones mixed with certian breeds of dogs. Just asking cause the guy the gave me the dog sounded like he might have done some wierd stuff when discribing what i'll say could be in my dog. From my very uneducated guess though he looks very pit but know I'm wondering if I should call him an AMbullie. Now I know without papers hes just a mutt but I hate calling him that


I think the ones bred off the original foundation are primarily staff/show/game lines ... Like old RE/WATCHDOG mixed with the old gaff ect. But many bully/Ambully breeder's have not only destroyed working game lines they have also destroyed some good Amstaff show lines. And yes I think a lot of them the ones that look like king are mixed with everything under the sun.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> would you say an ambullie is any apbt mixed with anything or just ones mixed with certian breeds of dogs. Just asking cause the guy the gave me the dog sounded like he might have done some wierd stuff when discribing what i'll say could be in my dog. From my very uneducated guess though he looks very pit but know I'm wondering if I should call him an AMbullie. Now I know without papers hes just a mutt but I hate calling him that


haha I call all mine mutts even my papered standard poodle (for now forever dunno yet?) I just got back, dogs=mutts in my vocabulary. Even when I own a good ukc am bullie and or APBT it will be one too :roll:


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

well i do call him a mutt when hes not listening very well. I was just curious cause from what I was reading seems ambullies pretty much have anything in them.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

ya, i have no ped on cheza butyou can pretty much tell she is a bullie, yes i think there pretty much mix of this and that but mainly APBT and masstiff like dogs to get the size and head, then something to make them short... who knows english bulldog? i'm not possitive though. i'm sure someone can tell you better


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> well i do call him a mutt when hes not listening very well. I was just curious cause from what I was reading seems ambullies pretty much have anything in them.


If your dog doesn't have paper's and you don't know how he's bred technically he would be a mutt. But I like to use mixed breed just sounds better LOL .. And yes there are many upon many Ambullies who are mixed with all types of stuff it's so hard to say because none of them (the dishonest breeder's out to make a dollar ) Are going to say hey man we took a Old english Bulldog and bred it to a staff and then turned around later on and bred one of the offspring to a corso. Most of them just register them as APBT's and they will say they come from such and such bloodlines. But if you trace those bloodlines back you will see that those dogs never looked that way to start of with. Breeder's were doing dirty stuff in their yards they kept getting freakier and freakier, bigger and bigger, till they produced the ultimate genetic mess like poor King and slaped a 25,000 stud fee on it. :flush:


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

I totally agree I just always thought american bullie was a legit breed and when I fist heard about them they where not those big fat hippo style more the heavy amstaff look it what i saw. Now it seem like anything could be in there. At the vet il called him a pit mix


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> I totally agree I just always thought american bullie was a legit breed and when I fist heard about them they where not those big fat hippo style more the heavy amstaff look it what i saw. Now it seem like anything could be in there. At the vet il called him a pit mix


Well the problem is you have a few different TYPE'S of American Bully's you have the original type that wasn't meant to be that much bigger than an APBT they were bred close to the staff standard I guess the idea was to create a dog that looked nice(in a larger form let's say 75lbs) that could be shown with working potential without all DA like the Old RE stuff. Then it just got completely out of control now what your seeing is enormous dog's that are bred so completely far from the origin that it became quite obvious that something had changed (mixing in all type's of breeds). The problem is there was never really a standard in place there was an idea of what the founder of let's say the Razor's Edge line was looking for and trying to accomplish but they were still mixing breeds APBTx AMSTAFF to create a certain look without the DA that the APBT possesses so they would be more manageable and with a bigger physique much like the modern Amstaff . Which I kind of don't really understand because the Amstaff was already the ideal of what the old bully's were supposed to be .... Anyway some people still don't think these dog's are a breed because there is just so much inconsistency with the dogs being bred and you still have jack a**es still breeding and selling them as APBT's it's getting better and you def have breeder's who want to make a name and a purpose for them it's just a matter of getting everyone on the same page is my guess. Getting owner's to call them Ambullys and getting breeder's to stop using the APBT name to make a name for themselves and passing their dog's off as APBT's when they are clearly not. And last but not least getting them to register there dog's with ABKC as an American Bully and tear up the UKC/ADBA paper's saying there dog is a registered American Pit bull Terrier.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I was waiting for you to come put your spin on this thread. Look forward to your response


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

well I finally found out where my confusion was coming from. I was confusing ambullies with the american bulldogs. so when i saw these xxl bullies i thought they were supposed to be like the american bulldogs or I was told these are differnt dogs anyways


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

Sadie said:


> Anyway some people still don't think these dog's are a breed because there is just so much inconsistency with the dogs being bred .


 ya you definetly are lie here.
so if the amstaff was supposed to be what the old english bulldogs were
then what are american bulldogs supposed to be

ya I cant imagine much use for the xxl bullies but the ones that looked like a pit just bigger i could like that but then again not sure if you would call that an american bulldog then

I'm still tring to rap my head around this.
I do agree that they should have never been called an apbt or staffy or amstaff


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

if this is a american bulldog

and this is an ambully









whats the difference


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

junkyard said:


> Lone -star, i am sorry if i have offended you with my post and what you saw as a generalisation/stereotype. I pretty much call it as i see it, and i dont pull any hidden cards on you.
> All it was , was a generalisation, i never once said it was the entire stereotype.
> You may think its lame but its true.
> And if you would like to throw around a stereotype on gamebred owners i realy dont mind, because i wouldnt fit into it anyway.
> ...


Nahh no worries...you didnt offend me bro...I just don't like stereotypes...
but thats off topic were here for the dogs...so we'll just keep it at that...
The bullies you speak of with the bowed legs and extreme features are just one portion of the bully world...I actually agree with you that the super extreme bullies are a mess...although I do like the look of some of the extreme class I also do not like the health problems that come along with the structure of the dog...and until these faults become frowned upon by the ABKC and other orginizations I fear it will only get worse. However there are other classes of American Bullies that do not fit the description you speak of...I love a well put together bully...

I also do not agree with things like a 25,000 dollar stud fee...but guess what...I'm NEVER gonna go after that...so it doesn't concern me lol...
I could post an ad and set a stud fee of lets say 1000 dollars...okay...but if nobody is interested it will be just that...an ad...value is in the eye of the buyer...to me it's absolutely rediculous...but it in no way effects me or my yard...so I don't pay it any mind...

I just woke up so I hope this all makes sense...

Thanks for the great conversation!


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> if this is a american bulldog
> 
> and this is an ambully
> 
> ...


Ones an AmBulldog and ones and AmBully? What do you mean


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

American Bulldogs are a legit breed with standards. There are more Bully styles than poodle sizes. There are some that are big pitterstaffs, but I see some of those kennels adding freak short dogs which are obviously mixed. If they had a dog born with a 5th leg it would be the new fad and bred into every female.


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> if this is a american bulldog
> 
> and this is an ambully
> 
> ...


Heres a little video that may help you understand the American Bully...
The 2nd half is more just show footage...


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

Here is the "bully" breed some are trying to avoid but the rest are loving it for the money. Here is a good link I found. http://www.gopitbull.com/bloodline-discussion/23419-bullies-today-vs-foundation-bullies.html


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

That is animal cruelty

period


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## fishinrob (Apr 14, 2010)

That's why Bully people are really losing respect in the gamebred world. Even classic Bully people should be offended by this. This tarnishes the Bully name as much as the pitbull name.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

Lone Star, thanks for the reply, it have found it rare that i can have such a convo with a bully owner and its probably the other way round pride generally gets in the way which of course turns into an argument.

Personally where i live we dont have bullies, as our country has strict import laws they wouldnt ever get in due to the govenment would still class them as a "pitbull type" dog. Personally i dont want them here reason being we have enough confusion as it is with people wrapping their heads around the fact that an Amstaff is not an APBT.

Please humour me for a moment, what do you class as a well put together bully? The bullies i have seen that fit into my description of a well put together dog just look to me like blue APBT's. Which makes me wonder why not just show an APBT?
The dog aggresion thing i understand, not everyone is happy to deal with a dog that constantly wants to get into it with anything it sees, and i understand how that looks to the general public if they happened upon a show.
But the Amstaff has a high portion of dogs that the aggresion[da] just about no longer exists so why not one of those?
And please i do understand the freedom of choice i am just trying to grasp the reasoning behind it.
On the forum i am generally at, most bully owners come in with something to proove[stupid but true] and we are bombarded with vids and pics of people exercising their fat dogs and trying to proove a point , generally with that attitude they dont stay long because its not welcomed we realy dont care if your bully is active, a house lab in a normal family is also active.
We get offended because in our eyes we are fighting an uphill battle in trying our best to keep our dogs as close to the ones in history that we can with what means we have, and the bully is the exact oppisite of the spectrum, its almost like a mutiny has gone on and we are being laughed at from afar.

I do see that a very high percentage of bully owners/breeders are at the end i stereotyped so people who want to have a decent standard are also fighting an uphill battle.

I still cannot grasp why someone would want to buy a kit car with a chevy nova [sorry trying to find an Amertican example lol] under the hood, when you can buy a z series corvette with the corvette motor in it.

I chose the breed before i knew the name of it and before i did my research on the history for its purpose [the box] , i chose my breed because of its happy go lucky temp, its looks[first APBT i saw looked like it was built for anything it came accross and it was] and the sleek look and lines of a well built muscular dog. I like athletes not meatheads and the apbt is the most pure example of strength and fitness that walks on four legs in the domesticated world. 
Even the general publicd would think so if they dont know what they are looking at. I have had greyhound racers comment on how they wished they could get their race dogs to look half as good as what my dogs do and thats without any conditioning its simple genetics.

There is so much apeal with the APBT and i see so little with the Bully. 
But thats just my personal choice.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

ok an american bully is an american bulldog?

Just different sizes?


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## MISSAPBT (May 10, 2009)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> ok an american bully is an american bulldog?
> 
> Just different sizes?


No.

They are seperate breeds.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> ok an american bully is an american bulldog?
> 
> Just different sizes?


No, like Miss APBT says, the American bulldog is a whole different breed. KG420 used to own one so she knows more about them than I do.

The similarity in the names can be confusing. When I first heard about Bullies I was confused because in Australia, people commonly call Bull Terriers "bullies".


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

This is what I don't understand the Original idea of the American Bully was basically a blue amstaff show/working potential minus gameness and DA before it got out of control. The dogs they used were Amstaff and Game dogs as the foundation for these bully's. I don't understand why an American Bully was even needed if the idea was to create another amstaff. The amstaff already existed for hundreds of years they were already a well established breed with a purpose. That's what makes absolutely no sense to me.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

max said:


> Here is the "bully" breed some are trying to avoid but the rest are loving it for the money. Here is a good link I found. http://www.gopitbull.com/bloodline-discussion/23419-bullies-today-vs-foundation-bullies.html


This is just wrong on so many levels! 
If this is now the bully standard. I am going to go from; "just not the dog I would want" to despising the breed. The one good thing from this is, most people don't even know if my dog is a APBT or not.


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## dday (Oct 5, 2010)

Sadie said:


> This is what I don't understand the Original idea of the American Bully was basically a blue amstaff show/working potential minus gameness and DA before it got out of control. The dogs they used were Amstaff and Game dogs as the foundation for these bully's. I don't understand why an American Bully was even needed if the idea was to create another amstaff. The amstaff already existed for hundreds of years they were already a well established breed with a purpose. That's what makes absolutely no sense to me.


I believe the guy in the video is misinformed, Staffs look nothing like that. There is something else in their blood. Personally I think it's swine.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

I second that Dday what good is a dog who is so big and deformed it can't hardly walk my joints are hurting just looking at this dog.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

dday said:


> I believe the guy in the video is misinformed, Staffs look nothing like that. There is something else in their blood. Personally I think it's swine.


Yeah that guy was def misinformed .. But the old RE dog's were basically a line of blue amstaff's ... That was supposed to be the beginning of the American Bully as we know it.


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## Oldskool Brent (Jul 1, 2009)

Lone Star said:


> Heres a little video that may help you understand the American Bully...
> The 2nd half is more just show footage...
> 
> YouTube - THE HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN BULLY


Sadly I quit watching it right after he said it was created from Staffy and Pits. The whole breed is based on a lie, how can I respect that?

I look at Bullies anymore and see more Cane Corso and Bulldog than Pit Bull, and really the Pit Bull part has been largely made up of Staffordshire Terriers.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

If you listen to Dave Wilson he will tell you straight up how and why he created the american bully. It wasnt until after its creation did others use the same excuse while crossing for size and width. original RE was not intended to seem deformed or freakish.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

All that video has realy done for me is back up all my own reasons for not caring for them at all.
The stereotype i made was made stronger, street level breeders, promo hoes like you would have at a car show.

How is the moron who made a clothing brand based on a bully that was just born when he made it the dog hadnt even done anything decent.
Trying to cash in on everything.
Hows the idiot who thinks that crossing a RE dog with a Gotti dog is going to give him his own bloodline, what a ****, Lou Colbys father would be turning in his grave. 
A bloodline is created over decades of hard culling and selection not just breeding two lines together and calling it your own. greyline already done that didnt they.
They may aswell punch Floyd B and people like Pat Patrick in the face.

Those dogs are not the result of amstaff apbt breeding, , lets get a skinny fit athletic dog and cross it into a bigger stockier dog of a similar look and what do you get? Well you certainly dont get those fat abominations.

The only thing missing from my stereotype is footage of a lowrider.
Thug wannabes= tick
Wankers with chain leads= tick
Promo hoes you find at car shows = tick
Misinformed idiots with no idea of genetics or breeding = tick
Fat unhealthy poorly bred dogs = tick
Showy big headed wankers = tick
Bully owners calling their dogs pitbulls = tick


Hell even the hip hop they had playing was a bad example.

And the worst thing is they talk about them like they truly are the superior breed.
Superior at what eating? 


Who was the person who claimed that in the future bullies will be bred for the box? 

I would say meet me in the Philipines but im afraid that country wont have enough dog food for you.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

junkyard said:


> All that video has realy done for me is back up all my own reasons for not caring for them at all.
> The stereotype i made was made stronger, street level breeders, promo hoes like you would have at a car show.
> 
> How is the moron who made a clothing brand based on a bully that was just born when he made it the dog hadnt even done anything decent.
> ...


:clap::goodpost::clap::goodpost::clap::goodpost: I can't send you any more rep points gotta spread some more love first LOL ..


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

junkyard said:


> All that video has realy done for me is back up all my own reasons for not caring for them at all.
> The stereotype i made was made stronger, street level breeders, promo hoes like you would have at a car show.
> 
> How is the moron who made a clothing brand based on a bully that was just born when he made it the dog hadnt even done anything decent.
> ...


I love a coherent argument. All points were well made.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Ok but let's look at Dave Wilson's vision for the breed/type we now know as the American Bully wasn't he just trying to recreate another Amstaff ?? If you look at the older razor's edge dogs that's what they look like to me except they were mostly blue. What they look like now is nothing like what they were supposed to look like in the beginning there are far few in between that do still fit the original vision Dave Wilson had for these dogs.


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

max said:


> Here is the "bully" breed some are trying to avoid but the rest are loving it for the money. Here is a good link I found. http://www.gopitbull.com/bloodline-discussion/23419-bullies-today-vs-foundation-bullies.html


LOL...what you've done here is found one of the most extreme worst representations of the breed and posted a pic...
This is not the norm. for the American Bully...
And this is not what I would look for in a dog...
I agree with others it's a monstrosity...


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Sadie said:


> Ok but let's look at Dave Wilson's vision for the breed/type we now know as the American Bully wasn't he just trying to recreate another Amstaff ?? If you look at the older razor's edge dogs that's what they look like to me except they were mostly blue. What they look like now is nothing like what they were supposed to look like in the beginning there are far few in between that do still fit the original vision Dave Wilson had for these dogs.


You give people and inch and they take a mile. The American Bully did Start as just Amstaffs really being called American Bullies, being kept fat and the marketed to sell.

However once the fad hits everyone had to jump in and become the next big breeder of something amazing in the bully world.

This is what causes so much variation in the breed. To many people going to many directions. This makes it very hard for the people who are trying to properly represent our dogs just the same as the byb'ers of APBT's make it hard on the real APBT to represent our breed as it is.

Both these breeds are both dealing with an image that is not true to what the breed is sub posted to be and what it is sub posted to represent. Bad breeders of bullies show freaks and a bad image that ruins it for the rest. Same thing goes for the APBT.

American Bullies are what they are and APBT are what they are. Very simple impossible for many to understand.. Not sure why. Before trouble came from APBT people stuck on the fact that Bullies are not APBT, well the Bully people excepted that. Now its all going to start over because lovers of the bully now are trying to prove that their dogs can be athletic and comparable to the APBT.

The American Bully also has the huge issue of anything that resembles a over weight pitbull/bulldog is being refereed to as a bully now with or without papers.

Sound like a familiar problem for the APBT?


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

well this is just my opinion a you all will probably say I am wrong but from what I understand the American bulldogs origins are not clear and most likely the breed was made by using the old english bulldog and terriers and some other breeds to create it. so In my opinion these so called ambullies are just new american bulldogs not another breed. most will agree that there definetly oputcross to some bully breed in these ambullies. Now yes if you just had an amstaff and apbt terrier this would still be the apbt breed dog but by adding bully blood youve made it into an american bulldog. now this goes for the so called well breed ones. Now these xxl dogs are just mutants of the american bulldog imo.

So ok now you can correct me if you want

I think we should have The American Pitbull Terrior(pure)
then The American Bulldog(well breed terrior/bulldog mix)
and the for the xxl dogs The American Hippo


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> well this is just my opinion a you all will probably say I am wrong but from what I understand the American bulldogs origins are not clear and most likely the breed was made by using the old english bulldog and terriers and some other breeds to create it. so In my opinion these so called ambullies are just new american bulldogs not another breed. most will agree that there definetly oputcross to some bully breed in these ambullies. Now yes if you just had an amstaff and apbt terrier this would still be the apbt breed dog but by adding bully blood youve made it into an american bulldog. now this goes for the so called well breed ones. Now these xxl dogs are just mutants of the american bulldog imo.
> 
> So ok now you can correct me if you want


The American Bull Dog has nothing to do with the American Bully other than some mixing used of that breed. Same goes for the APBT.

Mixing a dog with an American Bulldog doesn't make it one any more than mixing a dog with APBT would make it APBT.

Also American Bulldogs where bred for centuries to take down bear and hogs ( after the part from bullbaiting same as the APBT) so I think it an insult to say that a breed that has done nothing should just be labeled as the same breed.

The American Bully was created with the purpose of looks. A breed in it own. It doesn't need to be labeled as any existing breed since it is not of that breed it is a mixing of a variety of established breeds to make it a new breed of dog over generation of selectively breeding those creations.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

from what Ive read the american bulldog history is not clear at all and up for debate and one of the main theroys was it was created by mixing bull breeds with terriors and some other breeds.
It was just reconized buy the ukc in 1999 and the akc still doent reconize them


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> from what Ive read the american bulldog history is not clear at all and up for debate and one of the main theroys was it was created by mixing bull breeds with terriors and some other breeds.


AmBulldog come from the same as APBT's in part.

There use to just be Bulldogs. They where dogs bred to take down Bulls. When Bull Baiting became illegal some dogs where used for fighting and bred in with many breeds including terriers and over the years these box dogs became the APBT.

Other dogs there bred with Mastiff and bred for size to hunt large game such as lions, bears, and deal with Boars. These dogs became your know a days American Bulldogs.

There are many bulldogs breeds now a days that stemmed from the dogs of the 1700-1800's. Some still retain function while other are unrecognizable to their ancestors.

English Bulldog
Olde English Bulldogge
American Bulldog
Bull Terrier
Bull Mastiff
American Pit Bull Terrier

All Bulldogs


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

American Bulldogs @ Doggehouse: American Bulldog history
Yes but the dog almost died out until the 60-and 70 when outcrosses were made to have enough genetic diversity.
what out crosses are not known 
Most agree that the ambullies are heavily crossed.
both are mixede breeds with similar breeds.
now the american bulldog has became a breed but to me these people are doing with the ambully is the same thing that kept the american bulldog typr going.

Again even those hippos could be in this same definition since even in the american bulldog there were many socalled styles of it


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

In my very uneducated oppinion the people breeding am bullies are just do what has already been done with the american bulldog. Just not very well since they are breeding for a working dog


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

American_Pit13 said:


> English Bulldog
> Olde English Bulldogge
> American Bulldog
> Bull Terrier
> ...


all mixes. and yes I know all dogs are mixes but the some are recent and some are not. The american bulldog is a very recent mix of breeds to create it. 1960-1970And before that they were working dogs so who knows what went into it.


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

Lone Star said:


> LOL...what you've done here is found one of the most extreme worst representations of the breed and posted a pic...
> This is not the norm. for the American Bully...
> And this is not what I would look for in a dog...
> I agree with others it's a monstrosity...


Sadly, I've seen a lot of this being produce in the present time. Someone was actually trying to sell me a 3 months/50lbs/ bully with overshot bite and kinky tail for $2,500 with ABKC papers only, not UKC. Their reason for the price is the sire has been in many shows, and it's brindle. Ummm.... I just scratched my head and said no thank you.

Also, the reason why there are some bully owners saying their dog is pitbull because some (very few) still owns the original bully that are apbt and amstaff mix because of the pedigree on their UKC papers. This is where the confusion comes in to many, especially those who are noob owners of bullies, thinking they have a pitbull in their possesion.


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## Aireal (Jul 2, 2010)

American_Pit13 said:


> You give people and inch and they take a mile. The American Bully did Start as just Amstaffs really being called American Bullies, being kept fat and the marketed to sell.
> 
> However once the fad hits everyone had to jump in and become the next big breeder of something amazing in the bully world.
> 
> ...


:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

The American Bulldog and the American Bully are nothing liike each other and all that would do would confuse people even more and it shouldnt.

AP13, you would be 100% correct if only the bully people actually would stop usiing the name APBT, which is still the most common name used, watch any greyline, gotti, re, remyline video or a break off of any of those so called lines[they are not lines they are just byb putting a name on there crap] and they all still refer to their dogs as APBT, in fact they are even blatant enough to call them the "real apbt", "new apbt" claiming this is what the apbt is now.

And they wonder why they are not liked.

They are not apbt there is nothing "pit" about them.

Yes some of us have chips on our shoulder because some people are taking a huge dump on our real working dog, a big fat dump.

I am trying my best to understand it all but all i am getting is avoidance and reperesentations of the breed still look crappy and the people who own them say "no no they are bullies not APBT" yet they turn around and call them APBT when our ears are elsewhere, its nothing but lies from strt to finish, and they are not evewn being honest with them selves.

If you are so adament that they are Bullies and not apbt, why do you still allow your mutts[thats what they are] to be registered as Apbt? 
Because it will shoot your wallet in the foot if you take away half your customers for the sake of the truth.

I sincerly want some bully people to please post up here and change my mind, i am not picking on anyone with my perspective i am only stating things that the average joe can find out and then point out pretty easily, i would like to not have so much dislike for a breed, infact the only other dog breed i cant stand is the english bulldog, and that too has been based on a lie, they are one and the same in their story; Agreat working dog was taken and made infeirior so people could prance it around a ring.

So please bully people help me out here i dont want to dislike you or your dogs but with nothing but dishonesty and lies i realy cant help it.

And stop calling your dogs APBT when it suits your wallet.


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

junkyard said:


> The American Bulldog and the American Bully are nothing liike each other and all that would do would confuse people even more and it shouldnt.
> 
> AP13, you would be 100% correct if only the bully people actually would stop usiing the name APBT, which is still the most common name used, watch any greyline, gotti, re, remyline video or a break off of any of those so called lines[they are not lines they are just byb putting a name on there crap] and they all still refer to their dogs as APBT, in fact they are even blatant enough to call them the "real apbt", "new apbt" claiming this is what the apbt is now.
> 
> ...


WOW! Why don't you post this at abkc forum or some other bully forum and let us know what the result is? Obviously there are less people here who likes bully and I'm pretty sure they will response to your post like "_ :goodpost::goodpost::goodpost: Again, awesome coming from someone like you",_ Go to a Bully forum and let me know the link so I can follow the thread and let's see the response from bully lovers.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

junkyard said:


> The American Bulldog and the American Bully are nothing liike each other and all that would do would confuse people even more and it shouldnt.
> 
> AP13, you would be 100% correct if only the bully people actually would stop usiing the name APBT, which is still the most common name used, watch any greyline, gotti, re, remyline video or a break off of any of those so called lines[they are not lines they are just byb putting a name on there crap] and they all still refer to their dogs as APBT, in fact they are even blatant enough to call them the "real apbt", "new apbt" claiming this is what the apbt is now.
> 
> ...


WOOT WOOT !!! :goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

hahahah.. I knew it.. LOL


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

Max i have been told that there are some very knowledgable bully owners here who want the best for the breed. I dont see any issue with it being here, i have left the Gamedog forum where i am a mod, to ask my questions somewhere where a fight will not start, just like it would start a fight at the gd forum it would be a bombardment on my post and more than likely a ban for the easy exit from them, why do you want to follow it? so you can be entertained? seems to me someones looking for trouble. 

What out of what i have posted is not correct? 
Are you a bully owner? why cant you post or answer?

Its common logic that going into a bully forum like this would result in a shutdown on a bully forum, so i find your post funny.

I am looking for answers and if needed a friendly debate not a shitfight which is what you know i would get if i took your timely advice.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

In 1975 David Leavitt goes down to John D Johnsons yard, The pictures you see of **** the Bruiser, King Kong, Sandman that are in the world of fighting dogs were taken by David Leavitt. At that point David Leavitt had already crossed two Bullmastif/Pitbull females he bought to his AKC Bulldog....that is were he got Polly and Mox that you see in the World of Fighting Dogs. He went to Johnson's to check out stock for creating a second line for his OLDE ENGLISH BULLDOGGE breed. He gets Kings Lady Grace, and Georgia Gal/Sugar Doll.....he breeds them both to a AKC BULLDOG West Champs High Hopes.
These Half White English /Half AKC BULLDOG were used by Johnson in his next generations. Infact for several generations they were linebred upon, making dogs with several shots of the AKC BULLDOG.

This was posted on an american bulldog forum wish I could show the picks look exactly like what your getting with some of the first ambullies

Can your dogs pass the 7/8th rule? - General Bulldog Discussion - American Bulldog Forum - The American Bulldog Message Board - Message Board

history of the breed However, because the American Bulldog was close to extinction by World War II and John D. Johnson and Alan Scott began inter breeding dogs; thus, creating the Johnson and Scott versions of the bulldog.

same story as the ambullie justed breed to work and happened in the 70's the first ambullies from what people say got the same treatment


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

They were alot bigger Jack, over 100 pounds , there are huge american bullies but as a general they are shorter and wider for their height. 

They may look similar to you in pics but if you stood them side by side you would see a huge difference.

And bullies are a show dog and the american bulldog was bred as a working dog.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

And Max, no its not that obvios to me , ive been here three days. we have had who seems like a respected bully person answer here allready just not recently and we also have a highly respected bully person here[from what ive heard] as one of the mods here.

Trust me my mind can be changed with the right arguments and points, the only bully stuff i have been exposed to is what has formed my opinion and nothing more, hense why i am asking to be set straight.

In the bigger picture we all own a breed/breeds who are allways under the bsl radar so we should realy get along.

I dont cruise around calling my knife a fork even if it is still a peice of cutlery.


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

fair enough junkyman but if you follow the link and see the dogs they posted as the original american bulldogs and you look at the early ambullies dont see much different plus same breeds seem to be in both so I dont .
jmo and im sure you have more experience but seems to me that those xxl bullies are just badly breed ambulldogs

but I guess thats all I can say.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

Alitlebit_ofJACK said:


> fair enough junkyman but if you follow the link and see the dogs they posted as the original american bulldogs and you look at the early ambullies dont see much different plus same breeds seem to be in both so I dont .
> jmo and im sure you have more experience but seems to me that those xxl bullies are just badly breed ambulldogs
> 
> but I guess thats all I can say.


When you put it that way, I can see the point you're making. If we go on the early RE ambullies being pitterstaffs and early ambulldogs being a mix of APBT, mastiff, olde english bulldogge etc. then there is a clear delineation between the two. However when you see some of the "monstrosities" being paraded around as ambullies now then I suppose the line is not as clear. Who knows what has been added to _some_ bully blood to make them look the way they do?


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

aus_staffy said:


> When you put it that way, I can see the point you're making. If we go on the early RE ambullies being pitterstaffs and early ambulldogs being a mix of APBT, mastiff, olde english bulldogge etc. QUOTE]
> 
> These new hippos are well I dont know but this is what I was talking about and my whole reson for trying to figure this out because I think the early ones looked ok to me same thing with the american bulldog. Ive always figured they were like inbetween a mastiff and a apbt .


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

junkyard said:


> And Max, no its not that obvios to me , ive been here three days. we have had who seems like a respected bully person answer here allready just not recently and we also have a highly respected bully person here[from what ive heard] as one of the mods here.
> 
> Trust me my mind can be changed with the right arguments and points, the only bully stuff i have been exposed to is what has formed my opinion and nothing more, hense why i am asking to be set straight.
> 
> ...


I own 2 UKC paper Dog registered as APBT, but the lineage more AmStaff. Are they bullies? What do you think? If someone comes up to me and say are they bullies I say no, if someone comes up to and say are they pitbull, i said according to their pedigree they are. BTW, my dogs are direct decendants of MonterG (Gotti) and Sierra Gaff, which are breeders of original idea.

Obviously you got some hate on this breed, you are loosing your focus on what my previous post were. The original breeder of American Bully was mix with APBT and Amstaff UKC registered. Some breeders are still, again still doing this practice of breeding (very few). Now ABKC opened and all hells broke loose. The original American Bully idea was stained with other breed which turned into chaotic irresponsible breeding. Now some of the original breeders are not agreeing with the new American Bully produced due to arising problems. You can't point your finger to both parties because they have different desires and ideas. Let me summarize this for you.

1. Original Breeder - RE, Gotti, GAFF - They wanted a pitbull without gameness but has the agility of APBT and Built of Amstaff.
2. New Breeder (a.k.a. BYB) - Wanted short snout, low body but wide. Result is the pocketbully, which has so many health problems.

Do not get this 2 mix together. My question to you Junkyard, which one do you not like and which one are you trying to start your debate/argument etc..? If you say 2 then go to a bully forum. if you say 1 then by all means talk to me. If you say both then forget it.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

junkyard said:


> If you are so adament that they are Bullies and not apbt, why do you still allow your mutts[thats what they are] to be registered as Apbt?
> Because it will shoot your wallet in the foot if you take away half your customers for the sake of the truth.


Are you talking to me with this one? As I don't have customers nor do my dogs do anything other than drain my wallet.


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

junkyard said:


> The American Bulldog and the American Bully are nothing liike each other and all that would do would confuse people even more and it shouldnt.
> 
> AP13, you would be 100% correct if only the bully people actually would stop usiing the name APBT, which is still the most common name used, watch any greyline, gotti, re, remyline video or a break off of any of those so called lines[they are not lines they are just byb putting a name on there crap] and they all still refer to their dogs as APBT, in fact they are even blatant enough to call them the "real apbt", "new apbt" claiming this is what the apbt is now.
> 
> ...


...............................


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

no i wasnt talking to you at all sorry if it came that way.

Max, i have no problem with either dogs , just the trends and byb practices that seem to be taking away from what mr Wilson had in mind. 
The people who say they have bullies then turn around and say they have APBT. Take the "p" out and i would be somewhat happier.

At the end of the day i want to hear from bully owners and what they all think of these fads that are putting their breed on a one way track to being possibly the most unhealthy breed out.

I want to know about the shows where they dont have the stereotypes i previously mentioned.

I want someone to convince me that it isnt all about shortest dog, biggest head, prizes and get back to well structured dogs.


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## Sadie (Jun 18, 2008)

Well this is how I see it either bully owner's and breeder's are going to tear up those ADBA/UKC paper's saying they own APBT's and register them accordingly with the ABKC .. Or they are going to be forced to at some point by the registries revoking paper's on these dogs. There is no reason why once you have learned what breed of dog you own and the difference between an APBT and an American Bully that you should still call your bully and APBT or not register it with the ABKC if you have any pride and love for what you own and breed you should represent it as such and not be using another breeds name to market a breed who is clearly a different breed. JMO


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

@ Everyone. Pay attention to Lonestar and Junkyard. *This* is how you should be able to disagree with someone online. Both these guys are making reasoned and measured arguments for their own side without anyone getting upset and going ALLCAPS crazy. Rep for both you guys.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Here are all kennels that are producing nice well put together bullies. Korio I do believe still calls their APBT tho.

http://semperfibullies.net/
.:: KorioKennels ::.
Chavez Pits
Ruckus Kennels


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## Alitlebit_ofJACK (Oct 6, 2010)

I wonder if when they started breeding the english bulldog of today if this is sorta how it started.


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

Lonestar, THANKYOU, for you reply its what i was pretty much looking for. 

I dont hate your dogs infact ive never seen them , and as i said before i dont hate the dogs i hate the breeders who exploit them.
My exposure is nothing but what ive been told and what i can easily find, yet out of all the bully owners ive come across none of them say it the way you have.
Yeah i get fired up about it but trust me i am iopen minded if i wasnt i wouldnt be here looking for real answers.

My opinion has been built up from seeing and hearing nothing but bad stuuf relating the bully, i read a small section of a wilson interveiw and saw a couple of posts that a friend made when bringing up meeting with a decent bully person, these things itched my brain a little so im having a look around trying to build a more accurate opinion.


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

American_Pit13 said:


> Here are all kennels that are producing nice well put together bullies. Korio I do believe still calls their APBT tho.
> 
> http://semperfibullies.net/
> .:: KorioKennels ::.
> ...


Some very nice dogs on those links. However, the ones I liked could really all be called Amstaffs. Ruckus' Jackson is a great looking dog but as far as I can see he's an Amstaff. Where is the line drawn between bully and Amstaff (genuine question)?


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

Most of those breeders breed American bullies as well as Amstaffs or UKC APBTS so others are on the site as well.


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## Black Label Romo (Oct 15, 2009)

junkyard said:


> Lonestar, THANKYOU, for you reply its what i was pretty much looking for.
> 
> I dont hate your dogs infact ive never seen them , and as i said before i dont hate the dogs i hate the breeders who exploit them.
> My exposure is nothing but what ive been told and what i can easily find, yet out of all the bully owners ive come across none of them say it the way you have.
> ...


Thank you for coming here...I have had this conversation before with others...and it has always resulted in name calling...lol...usually from both ends...  ...it has been my pleasure to have an educated conversation with you...I respect all of your thoughts and I...just like you...hope that one day...there will be no more confusion between these breeds...cause when push comes to shove...they both hold a special part in my heart...if ya know what I mean...

Thanks Again...
Much Respect...


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## aus_staffy (Nov 10, 2009)

American_Pit13 said:


> Most of those breeders breed American bullies as well as Amstaffs or UKC APBTS soothers are on the site as well.


Yeah I noticed that there were SBTs on there too. Thanks, I think I actually answered my own question with my previous post. I should have noticed that ped was completely different to the bullies on the site.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

*A RESCUE GUYS POINT OF VIEW! 
I can only guess that the whole bully, registered as an apbt thru the ukc has alot to do with the confusion considering them pitbulls. people who dont know better will go by what the papers say.
From what I see, the bully clubs are going in alot of different directions depending on their type or style and who had the next big thing. Without a strict set standard, we will never see them excepted as anything but a mix breed thats mislabeled as a pitbull.


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

junkyard said:


> no i wasnt talking to you at all sorry if it came that way.
> 
> Max, i have no problem with either dogs , just the trends and byb practices that seem to be taking away from what mr Wilson had in mind.
> The people who say they have bullies then turn around and say they have APBT. Take the "p" out and i would be somewhat happier.
> ...


You and I are on the same page. :clap: .. you seem to have a lot of fans here. Sound like you are well known person in the pitbull world.


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## max (Jul 21, 2010)

redog said:


> *A RESCUE GUYS POINT OF VIEW!
> I can only guess that the whole bully, registered as an apbt thru the ukc has alot to do with the confusion considering them pitbulls. people who dont know better will go by what the papers say.
> From what I see, the bully clubs are going in alot of different directions depending on their type or style and who had the next big thing. Without a strict set standard, we will never see them excepted as anything but a mix breed thats mislabeled as a pitbull.


The bully world is police by abkc right now and it's in a big mess. I just witness what it looks like an Amstaff, but was considered a bully, who looks really amazing (body built, the stand, the obedience) I mean this dog can prolly join an AKC competition and win. Guess what, he lost to a pocket bully (stomach 4 or 5 inches away from the ground, crooked bowing legs, round body without muscle definition, but with a spiked collar and a big/wide smile).


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## junkyard (Oct 14, 2010)

Thank you Max, no im not well known, just a few members here that are also members of the forum i moderate.
In my country the APBT is banned for import as we follow commonwealth laws, the types of people who own the APBT are few and far between, and the people who are passionate about the breed are even rarer so a rare meetup with others is a treat, so alot of us use emails and forums to help each other with problems or just to discuss the issues the breed faces.
No we are not internet dogmen, we are enthusiasts who crave more information.


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## TheStunnah (Oct 13, 2010)

junkyard said:


> Thank you Max, no im not well known, just a few members here that are also members of the forum i moderate.
> In my country the APBT is banned for import as we follow commonwealth laws, the types of people who own the APBT are few and far between, and the people who are passionate about the breed are even rarer so a rare meetup with others is a treat, so alot of us use emails and forums to help each other with problems or just to discuss the issues the breed faces.
> No we are not internet dogmen, we are enthusiasts who crave more information.


Dosnt it suck Junkyard..


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## k8nkane (Jul 9, 2010)

This post has been very informative.

There are very few people around where I live (upper middle class city) that have a true APBT OR bullies, but I've begun to notice that those who say they have a "pit bull" actually have a bully. I had one person yesterday that mentioned she had a "pit bull" too (after seeing my pups in the car) and she pulled out pics on her phone and showed them to me. Very massive bully, even by bully standards, lol. She said he was 120lbs.

I really wish I could have said that her dog wasn't a pit bull, but I figured it would be too impolite to say, "Hey, your dog isn't what you think it is" in that kind of situation. I'm happy to find anyone who has a bully breed in my neck of the woods anyways and don't want to harsh on the love.


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## American_Pit13 (Apr 23, 2007)

So many dogs are being called pitbull now because thats what the media labled them as so thats what everyone learns. 

Even my sig says I play with pitbulls and I have APBT, BULLY, and Chihuahua lol. Pitbull isn't a breed its a type. Not a legitimate type just a type of dog that gets labeled that way.

When its a dog of that stature being called a pitbull I can understand how you feel. I have been there wanting to correct them but not be rude lol.


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## redog (Oct 14, 2005)

max said:


> The bully world is police by abkc right now and it's in a big mess. I just witness what it looks like an Amstaff, but was considered a bully, who looks really amazing (body built, the stand, the obedience) I mean this dog can prolly join an AKC competition and win. Guess what, he lost to a pocket bully (stomach 4 or 5 inches away from the ground, crooked bowing legs, round body without muscle definition, but with a spiked collar and a big/wide smile).


Thats what Im talking about. BTK had Dave wilson on his show last nite and it sounds like they are getting it together. we'll see what happens at the nationals.
according to the abkc, these are the standards
http://theabkcdogs.org/breeds/american-bully/standard/
the shorty's and xl standards are there too


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## BullyTheKid (Aug 21, 2009)

*SPECIAL NIGHT*

*Way to Go LoneStar and American and everybody else!! Good informative thread! I was not able to go back and read the entire post, and I have been neglecting my GoPitbull family, but here is what I will do. Anyone DrQ or anyone else that would like to have a open minded discussion about the "Bully Deal" and would like to discuss it further.

I will hold a SPECIAL radio night just for the topic, pick the night or day and time and I will host it and take opinions from both sides. I can type but I would really like to open another form of communication, as lately I have just been slammed from sunrise to sunset.

I will be willing to answer any questions posed and also discuss the main issues surrounding the Bully Deal. Special GoPitbull night lol!

GREAT THREAD!! *


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## pitbullmamanatl (Jun 1, 2010)

BullyTheKid said:


> *Way to Go LoneStar and American and everybody else!! Good informative thread! I was not able to go back and read the entire post, and I have been neglecting my GoPitbull family, but here is what I will do. Anyone DrQ or anyone else that would like to have a open minded discussion about the "Bully Deal" and would like to discuss it further.
> 
> I will hold a SPECIAL radio night just for the topic, pick the night or day and time and I will host it and take opinions from both sides. I can type but I would really like to open another form of communication, as lately I have just been slammed from sunrise to sunset.
> 
> ...


Great idea, BTK!! Maybe you could make it the topic of your next show or the week after since Nationals will be over?


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